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Honourable senators, I move the adoption of this report.
| Honorables senateurs, je propose l'adoption de ce rapport.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_75 |
Motion agreed to and report adopted.
| (La motion est adoptee, et le rapport est adopte.)
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_76 |
2. the then Deputy Minister of National Defence;
| 2) le sous-ministre de la Defense nationale a l'epoque;
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_77 |
3. the then Acting Chief of Staff of the Minister of National Defence;
| 3) le chef interimaire d'etat-major de la Defense nationale a l'epoque;
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_78 |
4. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (M. Campbell);
| 4) le conseiller special du ministre de la Defense nationale a l'epoque (M. Campbell);
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_79 |
5. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (J.
| 5) le conseiller special du ministre de la Defense nationale a l'epoque (J.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_80 |
6. the persons occupying the position of Judge Advocate General during the relevant period;
| 6) les personnes occupant le poste de juge-avocat general durant la periode en question;
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_81 |
7. the then Deputy Judge Advocate General (litigation); and
| 7) le juge-avocat general adjoint (litiges) a l'epoque; et
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_82 |
8. the then Chief of Defence Staff and Deputy Chief of Defence Staff.
| 8) le chef d'etat-major de la defense a l'epoque.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_83 |
"9. the present Minister of National Defence.".
| 9) l'actuel ministre de la Defense nationale..
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_84 |
At that time, certain members of the special committee refused to continue the inquiry.
| Certains membres du comite special ont refuse a ce moment de continuer l'enquete.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_85 |
Such is the case with the Somalia incident.
| C'est le cas du malheureux incident de la Somalie.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_86 |
They are only now starting to get back on their feet.
| Ils commencent a peine a s'en remettre.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_87 |
Several extensions were granted to the inquiry.
| On a deja plusieurs fois prolonge l'enquete.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_88 |
No one condones the terrible events that happened in Somalia.
| Personne ne cherche a excuser ce qui s'est passe en Somalie.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_89 |
We were all saddened by their impact.
| Nous avons tous ete choques des repercussions que cette situation a entrainees.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_90 |
Honourable senators, the time has come to move on.
| Honorables senateurs, le moment est venu de poursuivre notre chemin.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_91 |
We have learned the lessons of Somalia.
| Les lecons de la Somalie sont apprises.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_92 |
It is time to stop damning the military and their families.
| Cessons d'accabler les membres des Forces armees canadiennes et leurs proches.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_93 |
It is time to call a halt to suspicions, unfair accusations, insinuations and hostilities.
| Mettons le hola aux soupcons, aux accusations injustes, aux insinuations et a l'hostilite.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_94 |
The planned amendments will mean greater honesty, fairness and transparency within the system.
| Les modifications prevues accroitront l'integrite, l'equite et la transparence au sein du systeme.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_95 |
Let us not raise that red flag again.
| Abstenons-nous donc de lever de nouveau le drapeau rouge.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_96 |
On motion of Senator DeWare, debate adjourned.
| (Sur la motion du senateur DeWare, le debat est ajourne.)
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_97 |
For the rest of you, the minister said, "the file is now closed."
| Pour le reste d'entre vous, a ajoute le ministre, le dossier est clos.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_98 |
In other words: "See you in court if you feel badly done by."
| Autrement dit: Si vous vous sentez leses, poursuivez-nous.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_99 |
Honourable senators, a file on human tragedy is never closed.
| Honorables senateurs, un dossier portant sur une tragedie humaine n'est jamais clos.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_100 |
I will summarize them as follows:
| Je resume ses constatations comme suit:
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_101 |
If he had added that proviso, he would have been on firm ground.
| S'il avait dit cela, il n'aurait rien a se reprocher.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_102 |
Perhaps, legally, he is on firmer ground.
| Legalement, ses preuves sont peut-etre mieux fondees.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_103 |
I should like to return to the Krever report, which states in part:
| Je reviens au rapport Krever, qui affirme notamment:
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_104 |
However uncertain the results may be, the costs of litigation are unreasonably high.
| Peu importe l'incertitude du resultat, le cout des litiges est deraisonnable.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_105 |
They pose a significant problem in respect of access and the affordability of civil justice."
| L'accessibilite de la justice civile et la capacite de payer posent un grave probleme.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_106 |
The evidence points out how we ignored the cautions taken in the United States.
| Tout indique que nous avons neglige les precautions prises aux Etats-Unis.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_107 |
Senator Graham, the Leader of the Government in the Senate, replied on the same day:
| Le senateur Graham, le leader du gouvernement au Senat, a repondu le meme jour:
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_108 |
No one could help but be moved by the plight of those affected, the victims.
| Personne ne pouvait s'empecher d'etre emu par le sort des victimes.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_109 |
We accept those conclusions without reservation.
| Nous acceptons ces conclusions sans reserves.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_110 |
We accept them in their entirety.
| Nous les acceptons dans leur integralite.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_111 |
The victims and their families are suffering because of official negligence.
| Les victimes et leurs familles souffrent en raison de la negligence du gouvernement.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_112 |
Canadians overwhelmingly support them.
| La grande majorite des Canadiens leur accordent leur soutien.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_113 |
Hon. Celine Hervieux-Payette :
| L'honorable Celine Hervieux-Payette :
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_114 |
Some people have apparently died as a result.
| Par consequence, certaines personnes seraient decedees.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_115 |
I could name many other illnesses.
| Je pourrais enumerer de nombreuses autres maladies.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_116 |
Should this system apply in all sectors?
| Ce systeme devrait-il s'appliquer dans tous les secteurs?
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_117 |
As parliamentarians debating this important issue, it is easy to hand out money.
| Comme parlementaires qui discutons de cette question importante, il est facile de distribuer l'argent.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_118 |
We are well aware that this money comes from Canadian taxpayers.
| On sait fort bien que cet argent vient des contribuables canadiens.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_119 |
We must act responsibly.
| On doit agir de facon responsable.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_120 |
We are all saddened by this situation.
| Nous sommes tous desoles de cette question.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_121 |
In this case, it was done with knowledge.
| Dans ce cas-ci, les interesses ont agi en connaissance de cause.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_122 |
It was known that the blood was tainted.
| On savait que le sang etait contamine.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_123 |
That is the difference.
| C'est la que reside la difference.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_124 |
Hon. Nicholas W. Taylor :
| L'honorable Nicholas W. Taylor :
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_125 |
Does the honourable senator agree with that?
| Mon honorable collegue est-il d'accord la-dessus?
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_126 |
I quoted from that recommendation, and I can quote it again.
| J'ai cite cette recommandation et je peux le faire a nouveau.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_127 |
They are boasting about taking the lead.
| Les ministeriels s'en enorgueillissent.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_128 |
The federal government drew them into this.
| C'est le gouvernement federal qui les a amenes a faire cela.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_129 |
Hon. Jerahmiel S. Grafstein :
| L'honorable Jerahmiel S. Grafstein :
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_130 |
Honourable senators, this is a complex subject.
| Honorables senateurs, c'est une question complexe.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_131 |
The senator mentioned a universal program.
| Le senateur mentionne un programme universel.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_132 |
How many people are we talking about?
| De combien de victimes est-il question?
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_133 |
When should the payment be made?
| A quel moment le paiement devrait-il etre effectue?
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_134 |
How should the payment be divided between the federal and the provincial governments?
| Quelles sont les parts respectives que devraient payer les gouvernements federal et provinciaux?
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_135 |
Perhaps the honourable senator could cite a precedent.
| Le senateur voudra peut-etre nous montrer un precedent.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_136 |
If there is such a precedent, what would be the consequence of that?
| Si un tel precedent existe, quelles en seront les consequences?
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_137 |
I have asked a series of questions.
| J'ai pose une serie de questions.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_138 |
Perhaps the honourable senator cannot respond to them today.
| Le senateur ne pourra peut-etre pas y repondre aujourd'hui.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_139 |
However, when he rereads them, he may be able to respond at a later date.
| Toutefois, il pourra les relire et y repondre plus tard.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_140 |
This is of concern to all of us.
| Cela nous interesse tous.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_141 |
Are we creating a precedent with this?
| Sommes-nous en train de creer un precedent?
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_142 |
Surely to God we are not.
| Bon sang, certes pas.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_143 |
Surely to God we will learn from this.
| Nous allons surement en tirer des lecons.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_144 |
This is the tragedy.
| C'est cela la tragedie.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_145 |
The government knew the blood had not been tested.
| Les gouvernements savaient que le sang n'avait pas ete teste.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_146 |
They refused to implement testing procedures which were already available.
| Ils avaient refuse de mettre en oeuvre des tests qui etaient deja disponibles.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_147 |
Surely to God this will not happen again.
| Bon sang, cela ne se reproduira certes plus.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_148 |
Hon. Noel A. Kinsella (Acting Deputy Leader of the Opposition) :
| L'honorable Noel A. Kinsella (chef adjoint suppleant de l'opposition):
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_149 |
Honourable senators, "The file is closed."
| Honorables senateurs, le dossier est clos.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_150 |
Honourable senators, governance cannot be allowed to mean "managing the file."
| Honorables senateurs, gouverner, ce n'est pas gerer un dossier.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_151 |
The role of government is to serve the people.
| Le role du gouvernement, c'est de servir la population.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_152 |
The case was not closed.
| Le dossier n'etait pas clos.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_153 |
The Premier of Ontario continues:
| Le premier ministre de l'Ontario continue:
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_154 |
Details aside, the issue is not one of dollars but one of compassion and humanity.
| La question n'en est pas une d'argent, mais de compassion et d'humanite.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_155 |
I urge the federal government to make the same commitment.
| J'exhorte le gouvernement federal a prendre le meme engagement.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_156 |
This will allow officials to work out the details of assistance in a timely manner.
| Cela permettra aux fonctionnaires de regler les details concernant le versement rapide des indemnisations.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_157 |
Honourable senators, I endorse the recommendations of the Krever commission.
| Honorables senateurs, j'appuie les recommandations de la commission Krever.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_158 |
They will meet representatives of the people who have been affected.
| Les ministres rencontreront les representants des gens touches par cette question.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_159 |
They will follow the instructions of the House of Commons.
| Ils suivront les instructions de la Chambre des communes.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_160 |
I see my honourable colleague nodding in acquiescence.
| Je vois mon collegue qui acquiesce.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_161 |
Tainted by the Mulroney system.
| Contamine sous le regime Mulroney.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_162 |
Let me complete my question, please.
| Laissez-moi, s'il vous plait, terminer ma question.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_163 |
The Hon. the Acting Speaker :
| Son Honneur le President suppleant :
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_164 |
That is such a narrow-minded approach.
| Cette facon de penser temoigne d'une telle etroitesse d'esprit!
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_165 |
I think he was fair in his comments.
| Je crois qu'il a ete juste.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_166 |
We need this kind of exchange more often in this chamber.
| Nous avons besoin de ce genre d'echanges plus souvent dans cette Chambre.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_167 |
We are engaged in a serious debate on a matter of national tragedy.
| Nous sommes engages dans un debat important sur une question qui constitue une tragedie nationale.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_168 |
Honourable senators, we shall vigorously participate in this debate.
| Honorables senateurs, nous devons participer de facon dynamique a ce debat.
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_169 |
On motion of Senator Carstairs, debate adjourned.
| (Sur la motion du senateur Carstairs, le debat est ajourne.)
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_170 |
The Senate adjourned until Tuesday, May 12, 1998, at 2 p.m.
| (Le Senat s'ajourne au mardi 12 mai 1998, a 14 heures.)
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_171 |
Debates of the Senate (Hansard)
| Debats du Senat (hansard)
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-04-02.053_1 |
1st Session, 36th Parliament,
| 1ere Session, 36e Legislature,
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-04-02.053_2 |
Volume 137, Issue 53
| Volume 137, Numero 53
| hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-04-02.053_3 |
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