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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So in terms of, so if you think of a Boston Dynamics
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:01.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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human or robot being sort of with a broom
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:04.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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being pushed around, it starts pushing
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:07.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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on a consciousness question.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:11.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So let me ask, do you think an AGI system
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:13.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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like a few neuroscientists believe
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:17.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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needs to have a physical embodiment?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:19.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Needs to have a body or something like a body?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:22.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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No, I don't think so.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:25.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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You mean to have a conscious experience?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:28.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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To have consciousness.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:30.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I do think it helps a lot to have a physical embodiment
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:33.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to learn the kind of things about the world
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:36.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that are important to us humans, for sure.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:38.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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But I don't think the physical embodiment
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:42.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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is necessary after you've learned it
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:45.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to just have the experience.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:47.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Think about when you're dreaming, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:48.760
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Your eyes are closed.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:51.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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You're not getting any sensory input.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:52.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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You're not behaving or moving in any way
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:54.240
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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but there's still an experience there, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:55.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And so clearly the experience that you have
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:18:59.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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when you see something cool in your dreams
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:01.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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isn't coming from your eyes.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:03.320
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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It's just the information processing itself in your brain
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:04.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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which is that experience, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:08.640
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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But if I put it another way, I'll say
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:10.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because it comes from neuroscience
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:13.640
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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is the reason you want to have a body and a physical
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:15.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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something like a physical, you know, a physical system
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:18.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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is because you want to be able to preserve something.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:23.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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In order to have a self, you could argue,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:27.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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would you need to have some kind of embodiment of self
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:30.840
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to want to preserve?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:36.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Well, now we're getting a little bit anthropomorphic
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:38.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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into anthropomorphizing things.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:42.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Maybe talking about self preservation instincts.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:45.200
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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I mean, we are evolved organisms, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:47.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So Darwinian evolution endowed us
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:50.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and other evolved organism with a self preservation instinct
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:53.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because those that didn't have those self preservation genes
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:19:57.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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got cleaned out of the gene pool, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:00.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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But if you build an artificial general intelligence
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:02.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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the mind space that you can design is much, much larger
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:06.880
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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than just a specific subset of minds that can evolve.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:10.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So an AGI mind doesn't necessarily have
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:14.440
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to have any self preservation instinct.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:17.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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It also doesn't necessarily have to be
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:19.880
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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so individualistic as us.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:21.600
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Like, imagine if you could just, first of all,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:24.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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or we are also very afraid of death.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:26.080
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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You know, I suppose you could back yourself up
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:27.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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every five minutes and then your airplane
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:29.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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is about to crash.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:32.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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You're like, shucks, I'm gonna lose the last five minutes
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:32.840
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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of experiences since my last cloud backup, dang.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:36.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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You know, it's not as big a deal.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:39.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Or if we could just copy experiences between our minds
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:41.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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easily like we, which we could easily do
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:45.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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if we were silicon based, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:47.640
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Then maybe we would feel a little bit more
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:50.360
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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like a hive mind actually, that maybe it's the,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:54.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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so I don't think we should take for granted at all
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:56.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that AGI will have to have any of those sort of
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:20:59.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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competitive as alpha male instincts.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:04.880
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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On the other hand, you know, this is really interesting
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:07.360
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because I think some people go too far and say,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:10.160
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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of course we don't have to have any concerns either
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:13.840
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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that advanced AI will have those instincts
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:16.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because we can build anything we want.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:20.800
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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That there's a very nice set of arguments going back
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:22.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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to Steve Omohundro and Nick Bostrom and others
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:26.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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just pointing out that when we build machines,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:28.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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we normally build them with some kind of goal, you know,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:32.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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win this chess game, drive this car safely or whatever.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:34.680
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And as soon as you put in a goal into machine,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:38.520
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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especially if it's kind of open ended goal
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:40.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and the machine is very intelligent,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:42.760
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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it'll break that down into a bunch of sub goals.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:44.640
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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And one of those goals will almost always
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:48.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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be self preservation because if it breaks or dies
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:51.280
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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in the process, it's not gonna accomplish the goal, right?
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:54.200
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Like suppose you just build a little,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:56.120
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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you have a little robot and you tell it to go down
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:21:58.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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the store market here and get you some food,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:01.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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make you cook an Italian dinner, you know,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:04.040
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and then someone mugs it and tries to break it
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:06.200
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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on the way.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:08.400
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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That robot has an incentive to not get destroyed
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:09.480
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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and defend itself or run away,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:12.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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because otherwise it's gonna fail in cooking your dinner.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:14.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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It's not afraid of death,
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:17.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
but it really wants to complete the dinner cooking goal.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:19.560
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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So it will have a self preservation instinct.
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https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:22.960
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
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Continue being a functional agent somehow.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:25.040
|
Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
And similarly, if you give any kind of more ambitious goal
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:27.920
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
to an AGI, it's very likely they wanna acquire
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:33.720
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
more resources so it can do that better.
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:37.000
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Max Tegmark: Life 3.0 | Lex Fridman Podcast #1
|
And it's exactly from those sort of sub goals
|
https://karpathy.ai/lexicap/0001-large.html#00:22:39.840
|
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