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Generalization Experiments 1

This is a repost of an earlier. Thanks to several of you for offering advise on realistic prices. MAC SE/ 2.5 megs ram, 20 meg hard disk, 800 K Floppy. In absolutely perfect condition. Includes Word 5, pagemaker, quark xpress, quicken and the latest versions of about a dozen other programs.

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>I recently have become aware that my health insurance includes >coverage for abortion. I strongly oppose abortion for reasons of >conscience. It disturbs me deeply to know that my premiums may >be being used to pay for that which I sincerely believe is >murder. I would like to request that I be exempted from abortion >coverage with my health premiums reduced accordingly. I share Dennis's outrage over a similar manner. I have recently become aware that my health insurance includes coverage for illness and injuries suffered by Christians. It disturbs me deeply to know that my premiums may be used to pay for that which I sincerely believe is divine punishment for their sinful conduct. In addition these folks are able to avail themselves of such alternative therapies as Lourdes, Fatima, Morris Cerullo, Benny Hinn, etc. In any case as "Jesus Saves' I feel that there is no reason for them to be covering their bets at my expense. I would like to request that I be exempted from Christian coverage with my health premiums reduced accordingly.

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Sporadically, yes. It seems to flicker, or change shape into snow briefly. Not enough to impair functionality, just call attention to Diamond's professional sloppiness. Rob

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OK. I stand corrected. I guess, then, that the comments about payoffs (i.e., "pork") to Puerto Ricans that others have been making still stands? Now, everybody, how about some opinion on the following related topic: Should the people who are natives of U.S. territories have representation in the U.S. House of Rep's or the U.S. Congress? The U.S. Constitution sets up the House of Representatives to represent each State in proportion to its population, and the Senate to represent each State equally. What should be done with U.S. territories like Puerto Rico? Does anyone have knowledge about how this was handled in the past, such as with the Louisiana Territory or the Northwest Territory? Chris

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T(> Russell Turpin responds to article by Ron Roth: T(> T(> R> ... I don't doubt that the placebo effect is alive and well with T(> R> EVERY medical modality - estimated by some to be around 20+%, T(> R> but why would it be higher with alternative versus conventional T(> R> medicine?" T(> T(> How do you know that it is? If you could show this by careful T(> measurement, I suspect you would have a paper worthy of publication T(> in a variety of medical journals. T(> T(> Russell If you notice the question mark at the end of the sentence, I was addressing that very question to that person (who has a dog named sugar) and a few other people who seem to be of the same opinion. I would love to have anyone come up with a study to support their claims that the placebo effect is more prevalent with alternative compared to conventional medicine. Perhaps the study could also include how patients respond if they are dissatisfied with a conventional versus an alternative doctor, i.e. which practitioner is more likely to get punched in the face when the success of the treatment doesn't meet the expectations of the patient! --Ron--

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I read this morning that Sid Fernandez left last nights' game with stiffness in his shoulder. Does anyone have any information as to the extent of the injury (if indeed there is one), or weather the cold air in Colorado just got his joints a little stiff? Thanks for the help...

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If the Administration is this far along, is it possible that the government been working on it for a while and has been using the Dennings to prime the pump, so to speak, or as the Judas goat? Whether paid off, just gullible, or what, doesn't really matter. It might also be possible that the NSA / whoever has had the idea for this for quite a while, has been promoting it (Denning, et al) and siezed the new opportunity - a new administration who wants to spend more money on espionage than Bush did. Whatever, i'm not so sure that the cause/effect order is totally obvious.

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The motif mailing list will now be located at lobo.gsfc.nasa.gov If you would like to be added (or deleted) from this list, please send mail to [email protected] to mail to the list, send mail to [email protected] Brian

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The message from the NIST about the clipper chip comes from the following address: [email protected] (Clipper Chip Announcement) Just who is that, I asked myself, or rather, I asked the computer. % telnet csrc.ncsl.nist.gov 25 Trying... Connected to csrc.ncsl.nist.gov. Escape character is '^]'. 220 first.org sendmail 4.1/NIST ready at Sat, 17 Apr 93 20:42:56 EDT expn clipper 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250-<[email protected]> 250 <[email protected]> quit 221 first.org closing connection Connection closed. Well, isn't that interesting. Dorothy Denning, Mitch Kapor, Marc Rotenberg, Ron Rivest, Jim Bidzos, and others. The Government, RSA, TIS, CPSR, and the EFF are all represented. I don't suppose anybody within any of these organizations would care to comment? Or is this just the White House's idea of a cruel joke on these peoples' inboxes? Marc

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I HATE long postings, but this turned out to be rather lengthy.... Overall Crime rate: It fell....just like that... Acquiring weapons in Norway: You can buy (almost) all kinds of weapons in Norway, BUT you must have a permit, and a good reason to get the permit.... If I would like to have a handgun, i would have to get an gun-licence from the police and to be a member of a gun-club. The police would check my criminal records for any SERIOUS crimes and/or records of SERIOUS mental diseases. Now, if a got my licence, I would have to be an active member of the gun -club for 6 months BEFORE I could collect my gun. It's a little like getting a drivers licence isn't it ??? You have to prove that you CAN drive before you are allowed to... Use of guns in crimes (in Norway): Some crimes are commited with guns that have been in the owners 'arms' for a long time, but these are rather the exeption. Most criminals accuire guns to use them in crimes, and mostly short time befor the crime. Use of knives: It IS allowed to cary knifes in public, but not in your belt or 'open'. You (Americans) think it's ok to have a gun, but not to carry it open in public -rigth ?? Scandinavians ARE 'aggressive': We northeners are not as hot-livered as southeners, but when we decide to take action we DO. Ask ANY historian or millitary with an knowledge of europe.... (Or ask any German who served in Norway in WW2.....) Individual vs masses: Yes the individual is more important than the masses, but only to some extent.... Your criminal laws are to protect the individuals who makes the masses ?? What happens when the rigths of some individuals affects the rights of all the others ?? The issue: I believe the issue is GUNS, and gun-legislation. We shouldn't mix weapons and items that can serve as one.... IF i lived in Amerika I would probably have a gun to defend myselfe in HOME. But should it have to be like that ?? Do you think it's wise to sell guns like candy (some states do...) ?? If you believe it's smart/neccacery to have drivers-licence WHY do you think it should be free to buy guns ?? Disclaim-her: I'm not a pacifist or anti gun. I would defend my home, loved ones and country, but I don't view guns as neccities or toys. I HAVE done army service, and HAVE used a variaty of weapons, but wouldn't want to have one for self defence or because they 'feel good'.... This is not a .signature. It's marly a computergenerated text to waste bandwith and to bring down the evil Internet.

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The control box of the Window itself (upper left corner of the window, single click, am I being too simplistic?) has a font option. The 8 X 12 is about the biggest one I can use without the characters turning funky.

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I seem to recall that there was an article in Radio Electronics about this subject. In fact I have a copy of the article in front of me, but I can't find anywhere in the article a refrence as to what month it was in. The system they describe uses an automobile ignition coil for the high voltage. The article even includes some information on what kind of film to use and where to get it. Hope this helps.

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I've seen a listing of a Seagate 1G IDE hard drive. Windows NT already supports SCSI, a variety of adapters, for disk, tape, and CD-ROM. So does OS/2 2.0.

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I am looking for software to draw a graph. I want to just give it a list of nodes and edges between the nodes and have the program come up with some reasonable positioning of it. Thanks in advance.

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First off, with all these huge software packages and files that they produce, IDE may no longer be sufficient for me (510 Mb limit). Second, (rumor is) Microsoft recognizes the the importance of SCSI and will support it soon. I'm just not sure if it's on DOS, Win, or NT. At any rate, the deal is with Corel who makes (I hear) a good cohesive set of SCSI drivers. --

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I have a new scope and I thought I'd save a few bucks by buying one with a function generator built in. After having it awhile I noticed two things about the function generator. For one, there seems to be a bias even when the 'pull-offset' is pushed in. That is, I have to pull that know and adjust it to get a signal sans some random 50mV bias. The other _really_ annoying thing is that the damn output won't go below about 1V p-p. I am a student ( you may have guessed from my previous posts ), and I often have to measure the input impedances of various circuits I build.Many of the circuits have maximum input signals of way less than 500mV amplitude and most have input impedances in the 10's of Kohm range. The thing is, in order to use my function generator I have to divide the voltage to some thing reasonable. Then, of course, to measurethe input impedance of my circuit I am going to have to throw in another resistor in series. With the 50ohm output of the generator I could just ignore it, but now with this little divider there I have to figure that in. It's kind of a pain in the ass. Is there any way I could make myself a little box that could solve this little problem. The box would tkae the function generator input, lower the voltage and give an output impedance that is some low, unchanging number. I would want to lower the voltage by a factor of one hundred or so. I could just build a little buffer amp, but I'd like to have this box not be active. Any quick ideas. The scope's not broken. For other reasons I had sent it to the shop to get repaired and they replaced it. The function generator was the same way on that one, too. please help as I am feeling very stupid today,

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Is there an FTP archive for United States Geological Services (USGS) terrain data? If so, where?

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Hi: Does anybody known how much about to buy an ethernet card for mac se ? Besides,Where do I goto buy.If I buy it by mail-order,which brand is suitable for mac se(the network is coxial wire).Thanks a lot. Could anybody tell me what to do? Thank you.

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Nope, Germany has extremely restrictive citizenship laws. The ethnic Germans who have lived in Russia for over 100 years automatically become citizens if they move to Germany, but the Turks who are now in their third generation in Germany can't. It's not a very good example to show citizenship without descent. Karl -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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the Q700 will only do 8bit or 24bit color. if you want the higher color depth, it's 2MB's of VRAM altogether for a monitor up to 16". for a 21" monitor, you can get 8bit max. hope this answers your questions.

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How can you lie about something that no one knows for sure. I am the first to state that the 10% figure may be too high- but it may just be too low, depending on what you are talking about. Keep in mind that there are 'practicing' heterosexuals that are actually gay. These people chose to take a road that avoids being harassed and they wanted to 'fit-in' with everyone other 'normal' person. But let's get off of this irrational behavior of calling everyone a liar, you cannot even start to support such claims. This sure sounds definitive. How do you label Kinsey's work like this, from that factually based and scientific journal WSJ?

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As perhaps some insight into how this sort of thing works, the local college newspaper had a big crusade to have the U.T. police release crime stats. (The school claimed that to do so would violate federal education records privacy laws). They swore up and down they weren't interested in student discipline records, only for stats so people could make an evaluation of how safe the campus was. It was barely a week after crime stats were released before the Daily Beacon had an editorial calling for student disciplinary stats to be released, because they complained certain segments of the campus population were treated administratively rather than turned over to the police and therefore the criminal states weren't accurate. What people say they want public today may not be what they say tomorrow.

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<Moral Driver distinctions deleted> Compare the Driver to an urge such as Jealousy, where there is an urge and an "object". The jealousy does not technically exist until the object is apparent. However, the capacity to be jealous is presumably still there even though it is not detectable. Your description of the Unbilical took me three passes to understand (!) but I get the gist and I have to tentatively agree. I think our two definitions can sit side by side without too much trouble, though. I haven't attempted to define the reason behind the Moral Driver (only hinted through the essence of each Moral). Your definition hints that animals are also capable of a similar morality - Simians have a similar Social Order to ourselves and it is easy to anthropomorphize with these animals. Is this possible or have I misunderstood? My p.s. thoughts falls roughly in line with John Stuart Mill and his writings on Utilitarianism. I have no particular plan (except to do my bit - personal ethics AND social work). My opinion (for what it is worth) is that the Authority for each Moral must be increased somehow, and that this will probably take several generations to be effective. I don't think that the list of Morals has changed for Society significantly, though . The Authority element may come from our authority figures and roles models (see Eric Berne and his transactional analysis work [+ Mavis Klein] for references) and this is what gives rise to a deterioration of moral standards in the long term. I've had some more thoughts on my definitions: I've was thinking that I should add Moral Character to the list of definitions in order to get a dynamic version of the Moral Nature (ie. the interplay of the Moral Code and associated Authorities). A suitable analogy might be a graphic equaliser on a HiFi system - the Moral Nature being the set of frequencies and the chosen 'amplitudes', and the Moral Character being the spectrum over time. Conscience is a little more difficult because I can't define it as the reasoning of a person between actions in the context of his Moral Nature because Conscience seems to cut in most of the time unbidden and often unwanted. I think Conscience is manifest when a decision is made at a given time which compromises one's Moral Nature. My Conscience fits in more with Freud's SuperEgo (plus the Moral Driver) with the stimulous being the urges or Freud's Id. The reasoning that I mentioned before is Freud's Ego, I suppose. If the Moral Driver is part of the Id then the reason why Conscience cuts in unbidden is partially explained. The question is "what provides the stimulous to activate the Moral driver?". I think I need some more time with this one. That's about it for now! David. --- On religion:

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Kevin Todd is an Oiler and has been one for months. How closely do you follow the Devils, anyway? Jeez....

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I agree with Carol here. Determining absolutes is, practically speaking, a waste of time. And we easily forget that relative truth is, in fact relative. For example, I recently was asking some children the question "What temperature does water boil at?" I got the answer 212 degrees consistently. I asked if they knew what scale, and was told "It's just 212 degrees. Any scale. That's what all thermometers say." Well, that's sincere, and may be true in the experience of the speaker, but it is simply wrong. IT is NOT an absolute truth. Similarly, Scripture is full of Truth, which we should nurture and cherish, but trying to determine which parts are Absolute Truth and which parts are the manifestations of that in the context of the time and culture in which the text was penned is missing the point. Then religion easily becomes an intellectual head-trip, devoid of the living experience of the indwelling Trinity and becomes dead scholasticism, IMO. [example of head-covering in Church deleted] This was a good example. There may be an Absolute Truth behind the writing, but the simplest understanding of the passage is that the instructions apply to the Corinthians, and not necessarily elsewhere. The instructions may reflect Absolute Truth in the context of first century culture and the particular climate at Corinth, which was having a LOT of trouble with order. Is it Absolute Truth to me? No. And I see no compelling, or even reasonable, reason that it should be. Even the most die-hard literalists do not take all of the Bible literally. I've yet to meet anyone who takes the verse "blessed is he who takes your babies and smashes their heads against the rocks" literally. The Bible was not printed or handed to us by God with color codings to tell us what parts should be interpreted which way. I agree. Very few. And even if we knew them, personally, we may not be able to express that in a way that still conveys Absolute Truth to another. The presence of absence of Absolutes may not make any difference, since I know I can never fully apprehend an Absolute if it walks up and greets me. I can't prove the existence of absolutes. I can only rely upon MY experience. I also trust God's revelation that WE cannot fully comprehend the infinite. Therefore we can't comprehend the Absolutes. So I don't need them. I can never know the essence of God, only the energies by and through which God is manifested to God's creation. So the reality can be that there ARE absolutes, but it is of no practical importance. It's like claiming that the original scriptural autographs were perfect, but copies may not be. Swell. Who cares? It doesn't affect me in any practical useful way. I might as well believe that God has made a lot of electric blue chickens, and that they live on Mars. Maybe God did. So what? Is that going to have ANY effect on how I deal with my neighbor, or God? Whether or not I go to this or that cafeteria for lunch? No. This attitude leads many non-Christians to believe that ALL Christians are arrogant idiots incapable of critical reasoning. Christianity is true, wonderful and sensible. It appeals to Reason, since Reason is an inner reflection of the Logos of God. Explanations that violate that simply appear to be insecure authoritarian responses to a complex world. NOTE: I'm NOT claiming there is no place for authority. That'd be silly. There IS a world of difference between authoritative and authoritarian. Authoritative is en expression of authority that respects others. Authoritarian is en expression of authority that fails to do that, and is generally agressive. Good parents (like God) are authoritative. Many Christians are simply authoritarian, and, not surprisingly, few adults respond to this treatment. Larry Overacker ([email protected]) --

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Hi, I bought a while ago a Cache Card w/ FPU from Techworks. It was 219$. I think that was the cheapest I ever saw.

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Can people please send me any hints on building X11R5 with gcc 2.3.3 ? Is there any pitfalls to be avoided ? Any hints ? I would appreciate hearing other peoples' stories on this. --tim

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Yeah. Innocents. People who hoard $250K worth of high-caliber automatic weapons and kill law-enforcement agents really fit the bill here. The only innocents were the 20+ children who were prevented from leaving a burning building by their self-appointed messiah-following parents. A burning STARTED by the Davidians. Is this subject line a veiled threat against U.S. Government agents or possibly Executive office leadership (i.e. Clinton)? I've considered you a bit of a loon, before, Stephen, I guess this pretty much confirms it. Nice religion you have there. The only ones who should be killed are those who don't agree with us. Sheesh. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Tom Hyatt I'm a diehard Saints fan, so i've [email protected] suffered quite enough, thank you! Arlington, TX Help! I'm being repressed! -M.Python -------------------------------

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United States TV Schedule: April 18 Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh 1 EST ABC (to Eastern time zone) April 18 St. Louis at Chicago 12 CDT ABC (to Cent/Mou time zones) April 18 Los Angeles at Calgary 12 PDT ABC (to Pacific time zone) April 20 Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh 7:30 ESPN April 22 TBA 7:30 ESPN April 24 TBA 7:30 ESPN If somebody would send me the CBC/TSN schedule I'll post that as well.

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Just wondering. A friend and I were talking the other day, and we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish baseball players, past and present. We weren't able to come up with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and maybe John Lowenstein. Can anyone come up with any more. I know it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but humor us. Thanks for your help.

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<lots of pretty good stuff about how the huge towers near most nuclear power plants are there to cool the used steam back into near ambient temperature water deleted> as a point of info, some of the early nuclear power plants in this country used the fission pile as a first stage to get the water hot, and then had a second stage -fossil fuel- step to get the water (actually steam) VERY HOT. I remember seeing this at Con Edison's Indian Point #1 power plant, which is about 30 miles north of NYC, and built more or less 1958. [email protected]

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> Well, the two nifty letters giving concrete proof that the >Income Tax is voluntary and giving specific procedures for stopping >withholding, et cetera have been out there for a while now. > There has been no refutation to date. Have the nay-sayers >finally given up as defeated? Sure would like to hear there reasons >for disbelief at this point. Probably because you have yet to respond to the refutation I've posted. Teel, it's bad enough you post this bs, it's even worse that you don't even try to defend it when it gets torn to pieces, but then posting that no one's looked at it and gloating when all facts point to the contrary point to a severely deluded mind. What I found interesting about Conklin's letter is the 6 cases he has won against the IRS. Now, assuming that these cases really exist and were one by him (anyone checked?) they may have nothing to do with his major tax claim. The IRS fought one of his deductions. Defending your deductions seems puny when you believe that there is no need to file in the first place!

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Hi there!... Well, i have a 386/40 with SVGA 1Mb. (OAK chip 077) and i don't have VESA TSR program for this card. I need it . Please... if anybody can help me, mail me at: [email protected]

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I'm looking for the address to join the Cleveland Sports Mailing List. If anyone knows it, I would be greatful if they could email a copy of it to me. If you are a member, just mail me one of the List's letters. I could probably figure it out from there. Thanks!

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Jammer ! Dit is geen fantastische advertentie over nep-rolexen maar een evenzo duidelijke mededeling hieromtrent : Aangezien het alleen al aanbieden van deze horloges onder vermelding van de echte merknaam niet geheel correct is, wil ik met dit bericht duidelijk maken dat ik, Marcel Engelbertink, niet meer zal adverteren met imitatie-horloges van het merk ROLEX. Enig persoon die hierin geiinteresseerd is kan ik jammer genoeg ook niet meer helpen. For all the foreign people who can't even understand dutch ?!? : In spite of earlier mailing about fake-rolex's, I announce that I don't have any information available any longer and I won't use the trade name ROLEX anymore for those fake models. Yours fakefully,

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I believe SI had an in-depth article on Moe a while ago. I remember that the article revealed some new facts regarding the secretive Moe. My SI subscription expired this past February, the second of two years that I received same. Therefore my guess is that the article appeared sometime in 1991-92. Can anyone else be more definitive as to a date of the SI article ?

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/ iftccu:talk.politics.guns / [email protected] / 12:07 am Apr 15, 1993 / Also, you need to consider our legal system. Since any of these things CAN be lethal, you are going to have a hard time explaining why you applied lethal force when you DIDN'T think it was necessary. (If you thought lethal force was necessary, you wouldn't be using rubber bullets, would you?) Ouch. If you are justified in shooting them at all, you are justified in using the best self defense ammunition you can get your hands on. It might actually IMPROVE the legal outcome. This is why hollow points hold up in court. They are safer for you, safer for innocent by standers, (don't as a rule go through the perp) and actually safer for the perp. If you are using military hard ball, you may have to shoot him 'MANY' times, where one or two hollow points might stop him and do the job. As a rule, the fewer wound channels, the better the chance for his surviving the incident.

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As I heard the story, before Albert came up the the theory o'relativity and warped space, nobody could account for Mercury's orbit. It ran a little fast (I think) for simple Newtonian physics. With the success in finding Neptune to explain the odd movments of Uranus, it was postulated that there might be another inner planet to explain Mercury's orbit. It's unlikely anything bigger than an asteroid is closer to the sun than Mercury. I'm sure we would have spotted it by now. Perhaps some professionals can confirm that.

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. . . Since I was born in the late Pleistocene, I too remember 1964. That year, the Dodgers were several games out of first and I think finished sixth in the league. This was kind of odd because they won the World Series both the previous year and the following year. -- Warren Usui

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The Nicene Creed WE BELIEVE in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day rose again according to the Scriptur es, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

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Here is the price list for the week April 13 to April 19. - Andrew Buy Sell Pts Team Player 158.9 143.0 157 PIT Mario_Lemieux 148.5 133.7 145 BUF Pat_LaFontaine 142.7 128.4 141 BOS Adam_Oates 137.6 123.8 136 DET Steve_Yzerman 132.1 118.9 129 WPG Teemu_Selanne 131.7 118.5 127 NYI Pierre_Turgeon 130.1 117.1 127 TOR Doug_Gilmour 126.0 113.4 123 BUF Alexander_Mogilny 123.4 111.1 119 PHI Mark_Recchi 121.9 109.7 119 LA Luc_Robitaille 113.3 102.0 112 QUE Mats_Sundin 111.3 100.2 110 PIT Kevin_Stevens 110.6 99.5 108 VAN Pavel_Bure 108.6 97.7 106 STL Craig_Janney 108.3 97.5 107 PIT Rick_Tocchet 107.6 96.8 105 CHI Jeremy_Roenick 105.3 94.8 104 QUE Joe_Sakic 103.5 93.2 101 STL Brett_Hull 102.4 92.2 100 CGY Theoren_Fleury 101.2 91.1 100 PIT Ron_Francis 100.4 90.4 98 TOR Dave_Andreychuk 100.2 90.2 99 BOS Joe_Juneau 98.3 88.5 96 WPG Phil_Housley 98.3 88.5 96 MTL Vincent_Damphousse 96.3 86.7 94 MTL Kirk_Muller 96.1 86.5 95 DET Dino_Ciccarelli 95.3 85.8 93 BUF Dale_Hawerchuk 95.3 85.8 93 MIN Mike_Modano 94.4 85.0 91 NYR Mark_Messier 93.2 83.9 91 STL Brendan_Shanahan 93.1 83.8 92 PIT Jaromir_Jagr 88.1 79.3 86 MTL Brian_Bellows 88.1 79.3 86 LA Jari_Kurri 88.0 79.2 87 DET Sergei_Fedorov 87.1 78.4 85 CGY Robert_Reichel 87.0 78.3 86 DET Paul_Coffey 86.1 77.5 83 WSH Peter_Bondra 86.1 77.5 83 HFD Geoff_Sanderson 86.0 77.4 84 TB Brian_Bradley 85.0 76.5 82 NYI Steve_Thomas 84.0 75.6 83 PIT Larry_Murphy 84.0 75.6 81 PHI Rod_Brind'Amour 83.0 74.7 82 BOS Ray_Bourque 83.0 74.7 82 QUE Steve_Duchesne 83.0 74.7 80 HFD Andrew_Cassels 82.0 73.8 80 LA Tony_Granato 81.9 73.7 79 WSH Dale_Hunter 81.9 73.7 79 WSH Mike_Ridley 80.9 72.8 78 HFD Pat_Verbeek 80.9 72.8 79 MTL Stephan_Lebeau 80.9 72.8 79 CGY Gary_Suter 78.9 71.0 77 VAN Cliff_Ronning 78.9 71.0 77 NJ Claude_Lemieux 78.9 71.0 78 QUE Mike_Ricci 77.9 70.1 76 VAN Murray_Craven 77.9 70.1 76 STL Jeff_Brown 77.8 70.0 75 WSH Kevin_Hatcher 77.8 70.0 75 NYR Tony_Amonte 76.9 69.2 76 SJ Kelly_Kisio 76.8 69.1 75 NJ Alexander_Semak 76.8 69.1 75 MIN Russ_Courtnall 75.8 68.2 74 MIN Dave_Gagner 75.8 68.2 74 TOR Nikolai_Borschevsky 75.7 68.1 73 PHI Eric_Lindros 74.8 67.3 73 LA Jimmy_Carson 73.8 66.4 72 CGY Joe_Nieuwendyk 73.8 66.4 72 VAN Geoff_Courtnall 73.8 66.4 72 MIN Ulf_Dahlen 73.6 66.2 71 NYI Derek_King 73.6 66.2 71 WSH Michal_Pivonka 72.9 65.6 72 QUE Owen_Nolan 72.9 65.6 72 BOS Dmitri_Kvartalnov 72.7 65.4 71 STL Nelson_Emerson 72.7 65.4 71 CHI Chris_Chelios 72.6 65.3 70 NYI Benoit_Hogue 71.7 64.5 70 NJ Stephane_Richer 71.7 64.5 70 WPG Thomas_Steen 71.7 64.5 70 WPG Alexei_Zhamnov 71.7 64.5 70 CHI Steve_Larmer 69.8 62.8 69 PIT Joe_Mullen 69.5 62.6 67 NYR Mike_Gartner 68.6 61.7 67 VAN Petr_Nedved 68.6 61.7 67 VAN Trevor_Linden 68.6 61.7 67 LA Mike_Donnelly 68.4 61.6 66 WSH Dmitri_Khristich 68.4 61.6 66 WSH Al_Iafrate 66.8 60.1 66 DET Ray_Sheppard 66.8 60.1 66 QUE Andrei_Kovalenko 66.4 59.8 64 HFD Zarley_Zalapski 66.4 59.8 64 NYR Adam_Graves 65.8 59.2 65 SJ Johan_Garpenlov 64.5 58.1 63 TOR Glenn_Anderson 63.5 57.2 62 LA Wayne_Gretzky 63.5 57.2 62 OTT Norm_Maciver 62.2 56.0 60 PHI Garry_Galley 61.7 55.5 61 DET Steve_Chiasson 61.7 55.5 61 DET Paul_Ysebaert 61.5 55.4 60 NJ Valeri_Zelepukin 61.5 55.4 60 MTL Mike_Keane 61.2 55.1 59 PHI Brent_Fedyk 60.7 54.6 60 PIT Shawn_McEachern 60.4 54.4 59 LA Rob_Blake 60.1 54.1 58 NYI Pat_Flatley 59.7 53.7 59 QUE Scott_Young 59.4 53.5 58 WPG Darrin_Shannon 59.1 53.2 57 PHI Kevin_Dineen 58.4 52.6 57 NJ Bernie_Nicholls 58.4 52.6 57 CGY Sergei_Makarov 58.4 52.6 57 CHI Steve_Smith 58.1 52.3 56 WSH Pat_Elynuik 57.4 51.7 56 VAN Greg_Adams 57.4 51.7 56 NJ Scott_Stevens 57.4 51.7 56 TB John_Tucker 56.3 50.7 55 WPG Fredrik_Olausson 56.0 50.4 54 NYR Sergei_Nemchinov 55.0 49.5 53 NYR Darren_Turcotte 55.0 48.9 53 CGY Al_MacInnis 55.0 48.9 53 CHI Christian_Ruuttu 55.0 48.0 52 CHI Brent_Sutter 55.0 47.6 51 HFD Terry_Yake 55.0 47.0 51 VAN Dixon_Ward 55.0 47.0 51 WPG Keith_Tkachuk 55.0 46.4 51 BOS Stephen_Leach 55.0 46.1 50 TOR John_Cullen 55.0 46.1 50 MTL Denis_Savard 55.0 45.7 49 NYR Ed_Olczyk 55.0 45.2 49 VAN Anatoli_Semenov 55.0 44.8 48 WSH Sylvain_Cote 55.0 44.8 48 NYI Vladimir_Malakhov 55.0 44.8 48 NYI Jeff_Norton 55.0 44.8 48 HFD Patrick_Poulin 55.0 44.6 49 BOS Dave_Poulin 55.0 44.3 48 LA Tomas_Sandstrom 55.0 44.3 48 EDM Petr_Klima 55.0 44.3 48 NJ John_MacLean 55.0 44.3 48 EDM Doug_Weight 55.0 43.3 47 MTL Gilbert_Dionne 55.0 43.3 47 LA Alexei_Zhitnik 55.0 43.3 47 EDM Shayne_Corson 55.0 42.8 47 QUE Martin_Rucinsky 55.0 42.4 46 WPG Evgeny_Davydov 55.0 42.4 46 STL Kevin_Miller 55.0 42.4 46 EDM Craig_Simpson 55.0 42.0 45 WSH Kelly_Miller 55.0 42.0 45 PHI Pelle_Eklund 55.0 40.6 44 CHI Michel_Goulet 55.0 40.6 44 EDM Dave_Manson 55.0 39.6 43 OTT Sylvain_Turgeon 55.0 38.7 42 CGY Paul_Ranheim 55.0 38.7 42 MTL Mathieu_Schneider 55.0 38.7 42 MIN Mark_Tinordi 55.0 38.3 42 DET Bob_Probert 55.0 37.8 41 EDM Todd_Elik 55.0 37.4 40 NYR Esa_Tikkanen 55.0 37.4 41 BOS Vladimir_Ruzicka 55.0 36.9 40 OTT Bob_Kudelski 55.0 36.9 40 NJ Peter_Stastny 55.0 36.9 40 TOR Dave_Ellett 55.0 36.9 40 OTT Brad_Shaw 55.0 36.5 40 DET Niklas_Lidstrom 55.0 36.0 39 NJ Bobby_Holik 55.0 36.0 39 TOR Wendel_Clark 55.0 35.5 38 NYR Alexei_Kovalev 55.0 35.0 38 BUF Yuri_Khmylev 55.0 35.0 38 MIN Mike_McPhee 55.0 34.1 37 TOR Rob_Pearson 55.0 34.1 37 VAN Sergio_Momesso 55.0 33.6 36 NYR Brian_Leetch 55.0 33.2 36 CHI Dirk_Graham 55.0 33.2 36 TB Adam_Creighton 55.0 32.8 36 QUE Valery_Kamensky 55.0 32.3 35 EDM Zdeno_Ciger 55.0 32.3 35 LA Corey_Millen 55.0 31.9 35 BOS Ted_Donato 55.0 31.3 34 TOR Peter_Zezel 55.0 30.4 33 MIN Neal_Broten 55.0 29.5 32 MTL Gary_Leeman 55.0 29.5 32 EDM Scott_Mellanby 55.0 29.5 32 BUF Wayne_Presley 55.0 29.2 32 DET Keith_Primeau 55.0 28.9 31 NYI Brian_Mullen 55.0 28.9 31 PHI Josef_Beranek 55.0 28.6 31 CHI Stephane_Matteau 55.0 28.3 31 BOS Steve_Heinze 55.0 28.0 30 PHI Dmitri_Yushkevich 55.0 28.0 30 HFD Mikael_Nylander 55.0 27.6 30 BUF Richard_Smehlik 55.0 27.6 30 TOR Dmitri_Mironov 55.0 25.8 28 CHI Brian_Noonan 55.0 25.5 28 SJ Pat_Falloon 55.0 24.9 27 STL Igor_Korolev 55.0 24.3 26 WSH Bob_Carpenter 55.0 24.3 26 NYR James_Patrick 55.0 23.9 26 BUF Petr_Svoboda 55.0 23.0 25 OTT Mark_Lamb 55.0 22.4 24 NYI Scott_LaChance 55.0 22.1 24 MTL Benoit_Brunet 55.0 22.1 24 TB Mikael_Andersson 55.0 21.2 23 EDM Martin_Gelinas 55.0 21.2 23 WPG Sergei_Bautin 55.0 21.2 23 TOR Bill_Berg 55.0 21.2 23 EDM Kevin_Todd 55.0 19.6 21 NYI David_Volek 55.0 19.6 21 NYI Ray_Ferraro 55.0 19.4 21 MIN Brent_Gilchrist 55.0 18.6 20 HFD Yvon_Corriveau 55.0 18.6 20 NYR Phil_Bourque 55.0 18.6 20 NYI Darius_Kasparaitis 55.0 18.2 20 DET Jim_Hiller 55.0 17.7 19 PHI Andrei_Lomakin 55.0 17.6 19 BUF Donald_Audette 55.0 16.6 18 TB Roman_Hamrlik 55.0 15.5 17 BOS Cam_Neely 55.0 15.5 17 SJ Mark_Pederson 55.0 14.6 16 PIT Martin_Straka 55.0 13.9 15 CHI Joe_Murphy 55.0 12.2 13 NYR Peter_Andersson 55.0 12.0 13 OTT Tomas_Jelinek 55.0 12.0 13 NJ Janne_Ojanen 55.0 10.2 11 TB Steve_Kasper 55.0 10.2 11 MIN Bobby_Smith 55.0 9.1 10 SJ Ray_Whitney 55.0 8.4 9 HFD Robert_Petrovicky 55.0 8.3 9 BUF Viktor_Gordijuk 55.0 7.4 8 TOR Joe_Sacco 55.0 7.3 8 QUE Mikhail_Tatarinov 55.0 7.3 8 SJ Peter_Ahola 55.0 6.5 7 CHI Rob_Brown 55.0 6.4 7 BOS Glen_Murray 55.0 5.6 6 HFD Tim_Kerr 55.0 5.5 6 MIN Brian_Propp 55.0 4.7 5 WSH Reggie_Savage 55.0 4.6 5 STL Vitali_Prokhorov 55.0 4.6 5 LA Robert_Lang 55.0 4.6 5 EDM Shaun_Van_Allen 55.0 3.7 4 MIN Dan_Quinn 55.0 3.6 4 DET Viacheslav_Kozlov 55.0 3.6 4 BOS Jozef_Stumpel 55.0 3.6 4 PIT Bryan_Fogarty 55.0 2.8 3 MTL Olav_Petrov 55.0 2.8 3 TB Stan_Drulia 55.0 1.9 2 WSH Jason_Woolley 55.0 1.8 2 NJ Claude_Vilgrain 55.0 0.0 0 MTL Patrick_Kjellberg 55.0 0.0 0 OTT Alexei_Yashin 55.0 0.0 0 WSH Randy_Burridge 55.0 0.0 0 EDM Dean_McAmmond 55.0 0.0 0 CGY Cory_Stillman 55.0 0.0 0 TB Brent_Gretzky 55.0 0.0 0 BUF Jason_Dawe 55.0 0.0 0 WSH Brian_Sakic 55.0 0.0 0 VAN Igor_Larionov 55.0 0.0 0 CHI Sergei_Krivokrasov 55.0 0.0 0 QUE Peter_Forsberg -- Andrew Scott | [email protected] HP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253

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You can add sysedit (& regedit) to a program group... they are Windows programs. Is it possible to get it to load other *.ini files ????

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This is why I asked to be 'enlightened'. You are making claims about what 'is' or 'is not' part of this program. But if the "block grants" go to states and cities, the mayors list is VERY relivent. Okay scarasm does deserve sacrasm, but I already contact my local officals, my congress rep., senators, Watch evening news, news programs, and C-SPAN. The fact is that Primetime (TM of ABC) has had numberous reposts on such waste programs that already exist. Again, if we are truely intrested in eliminating the DEBT, we must REMOVE the DEFICIT, and do away with ALL PORK !!! There have been several books written on gov. waste, network news programs from time to time devote segments to this, and there have been bills proposed that significantly reduces expenditures without touching external programs by changing the way 'congress does business' (and make it more efficent). True, blame is easy, but also is spending someone else's money. Clinton ran on a platform that he would '...not raise taxes on the middle class to pay for these (his) programs'. He has proposed a program that is not specific, that counts on tax hikes to pay for. -- ====================================================================== Ken M. Edwards, Bell Northern Research, Research Triangle Park, NC (919) 481-8476 email: [email protected] Ham: N4ZBB All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer or co-workers, family, friends, congress, or president.

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Does anyone have the scoop on Scot Erickson? How long is he going to be out for?

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% % I was just wondering if there were any law officers that read this. I have % several questions I would like to ask pertaining to motorcycles and cops. % What happened to Charlie Lear?? He used to have "connections", didn't he? (Hey, this is cyberspace mister... you wanna 'stateside cop, ya gotta' specify!) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | John Little - [email protected] - Sun Microsystems. Atsugi, Japan |

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From Israeline 4/14 Today's MA'ARIV reports that yesterday, following Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's meeting with PLO Chief Yasser Arafat and prominent Palestinian Faisal al-Husseini, the latter said that in principle, the Palestinians have decided to participate in the peace talks. Nonetheless, he noted that everything will be decided upon at the meeting of the Arab foreign ministers in Damascus. The newspaper also reports that threatening phone calls were recently made to houses of several of the senior members of the Palestinian delegation to the peace talks. The threats, in Arabic, demanded that the delegates not go to Washington to, "sell out the Palestinian people." One caller threatened, "Should you go, you will not find your family alive upon your return." The newspaper states that such phone calls were received, as far as is known, at the houses of Faisal al-Husseini, Hanan Ashrawi and others.

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As you point out, the experiments would be difficult. But we know enough about the physics of the situation to do some calculations. There are in fact three effects contributing to leaning the bike over to begin a turn. 1. Gyro effect causing a torque which twists the bike over. 2. Contact patch having shifted to one side, causing bike to fall over. 3. Contact patch being accelerated to the side, causing a torque which twists the bike over. Take an average bike/rider, average bike wheel, and at speeds of 5, 15, and 50 mph (say) calculate how much twist of the bars would be needed to produce (say) 20 degrees of lean in (say) 2 seconds by each effect alone. My guess is that at slow speeds 2 is dominant, and at high speeds 3 is dominant, and at all speeds 1 contributes not far off bugger all, relatively speaking. By the way, a similar problem is this: how does a runner who wants to run round a corner get leaned into the corner fast? Is there a running group where we could start "counter-footing" arguments and have them all falling over as they tried to work out how they go round corners?

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JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

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Hi. Recently my svga monitor has been acting up by taking about 3 minutes to warm up. Previously, when I first start up my PC I can see all the CMOS messages (RAM test ...etc) but now I've got to wait for about 3min before the display shows anything and it starts up with a bright white flash. This only happens when the system has been off for a long time (eg overnight). If it was only off for a couple of hours and then turned on again, the display works as normal like before. Does anyone know what is causing this? Is it a warning that it will give up soon or just signs of aging (the system is a 386sx and its about 3 yrs old). I've used systems at work for years and never seen this happen to a monitor yet. I'd really appreciated any help that you fellow netters can offer. Thanks a lot. Edwin --

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Hi, netters! I've just built X11R5 pl 21 under Solaris 2.1. I've used the multi-screen patch, as well as the R5.SunOS... patch and everything builds great, except "Cannot set default font path '[stuff deleted]'" and "Cannot set default font 'fixed'". If I supply the -fp option, it doesn't complain about the font path but still complains about the font. I have symlinks from /usr/lib/ to the place where my distribution lives. Could somebody help me? -joel -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Reymont ! Z-Code Software Corporation ! e-mail: [email protected] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4340 Redwood Hwy, Suit B.50, San Rafael, CA 94903

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Oh, well... I have to admit that the most disgusting feature of Volvo's is their marketing. It looks like Volvo uses something like "Do you dare to risk your family in any car?" attitude, which is quite annoying in the long run. But now Volvo has produced a new good car, the Volvo 850. Front drive, 2.4 L 20 valves motor, completely new chassis etc. Even the British magazine "CAR" liked it (and believe me, that is quite much for a Volvo). And the American magazine "Road & Track" said that "This is not your uncle Olof's car", and in a positive sense. But in any case, I'd still like to own the 960 estate. Strong, tank-like chassis, 3.0L inline six, rear drive. :-) :-) BTW, the only car drivers who have blocked me are Land Rover or Jaguar drivers... :-) :-) :-) :-)

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I am selling a USR HST 14.4k baud modem with v42bis compression upgrades. THere is no manual, as it was lost going from one side of the U.S. to the other at some point. THe modem is setup for max throughput, and it has built in help, but a quick reference guide on the bottom of it, so its use it not difficult by any means. Any offers?

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Polish and Jewish are *not* mutually exclusive.

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I saw an interesting product in NY Auto Show, and would like to hear your comments. MILITECH(tm) is yet another oil additive. But the demonstration of this product really impressive, if it didn't cheat. The setup of the demo is fairly simple. A cone shaped rotor is half submerged in a small oil sink, filled with motor oil. The rotor is powered by an electronic motor. A metal pad is pressed against the rotor using the torque wrench until the rotor stopped by friction. The torque that is needed to stop rotor is read from the torque wrench. Before MILITECH was added, the rotor was stopped with about 60 lb-ft of torque (You pick the brand of oil, no difference). Once MILITECH was added to the oil, the rotor could not be stopped even with 120+ lb-ft of torque. Here is the good part: even after the salesman emptied the oil sink, you still could not stopped the rotor with the thin film remained on it. They say you need only add 2oz per quart of oil every 15k miles. A 16 oz bottle is $25. I still have my doubts. If this product is really so great, why it was so little known? The salesman said it is widely used in military. I didn't believe it. The demo was so impressive, that I bought a bottle against my common sense. Has anyone heard of or actually used this product? Is it real? If you are going to the auto show, please visit this stand on the second floor. See if can find out if the demo is a hoax or not.

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I think, as do the owners, that hockey will do well in Miami since there is a lot of people from the Northeast that spend their winters in Florida every year. As for the coverage, someone will have to come up with some money for that since broadcast rights can be expensive! Just my $0.02! Dale

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No one is questioning whether Mr. King is black. The question arises whether King's race should make police officers "afraid as hell." Your statement seems to imply that cops should have a different standard for large black guys than for just large guys in general. That two posts later you don't understand why anyone pointed out your use of the adjective is almost as informative as your original use.

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{rest deleted} Can the Father possibly not hear the words of His children. Of course He hears all your prayers. Whether you are a sinner or a saint, no questions. The real question you should be asking is: "Does sin block OUR hearing His answer?" And the answer to that question is a resounding YES. To paraphrase the gospel "Many are called but few choose to listen" and so it is with prayer. In Christ, James -- _____________________________________________________________________________ James Hale Lincoln School of Health Sciences Computing Unit La Trobe University,Bundoora, AUSTRALIA [email protected]

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Me, too... RBI are a worthless stat. Of course, so is stolen bases because sometimes runners are in front of a player that would otherwise run. And of course pitchers pitch differently with different people on different bases, so batting average, slugging and obp out, too. Hmmm... i guess homers would not count then, either. My point? RBI might not be a perfect stat but nothing is. And no stat (or lack of) can tell me there are no clutch hitters. Maybe no stat CAN tell me, either, but some people are... I just know it!!! 8)

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This (frayed) thread has turned into a patented alt.atheism 5-on-1 ping-pong game, and I don't have any strong disagreement, so I'll try to stick to the one thing I don't quite follow about the argument: It seems to me that there is a contradiction in arguing that the Bible was "enlightened for its times" (i.e. closer to what we would consider morally good based on our standards and past experience) on the one hand [I hope this summarizes this argument adequately], and on the other hand: }|> }Disclaimer: I'm speaking from the Jewish perspective, }|> }where "the Bible" means what many call the Old Testament, }|> }and where the interpretation is not necessarily the }|> }raw text, but instead the court cases, commentaries }|> }and traditions passed down through Jewish communities. }|> }|> This seems the crux to me: if you judge the Bible according to a long }|> line of traditions and interpretations coming down to the current day, }|> rather than on its own merits as a cultural artifact, then of course }|> it will correspond more closely with more contemporary values. } }But if that's how the Bible is actually being used today, }shouldn't that be how we should judge it? If most people }use scissors to cut paper, shouldn't Consumer's Reports }test scissors for paper-cutting ability, even though }scissors may have been designed originally to cut cloth? That's possibly a good way to judge the use of the Bible in teaching Jewish morality today, but it hardly seems fair to claim that this highly-interpreted version is what was "enlightened for its times". To (attempt to) extend the analogy, this is like saying that the original scissor-makers were unusually advanced at paper-cutting for their times, even though they only ever cut cloth, and had never even heard of paper. I'm not arguing that the Bible is "disgusting", though some of the history depicted in it is, by modern standards. However, history is full of similar abuses, and I don't think the Biblical accounts are worse than their contemporaries--or possibly ours. On the other hand, I don't know of any reason to think the history described in the Bible shows *less* abuse than their contemporaries, or ours. That complex and benign moral traditions have evolved based on particular mythic interpretations of that history is interesting, but I still don't think it fair to take that long tradition of interpretation and use it to attack condemnation of the original history.

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Well, the first 2 are easy. You need the math library. Try adding -lm after -lX11. Don't know if that's the whole problem but it's a start.

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have you tried printing the data file (TIFF) from another application such as freehand or PageMaker? I have found that Photoshop has occasional problems printing files that I can print through other applications. -GReg

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Tom's right about this. It's only a grantable right if the granter has the will and the ability to stop anyone from taking it away from you. Never mind the legal status. Nick's right about this. It's always easier to obtain forgiveness than permission. Not many people remember that Britain's King George III expressly forbid his american subjects to cross the alleghany/appalachian mountains. Said subjects basically said, "Stop us if you can." He couldn't. That's how the USA started. Of course, that's also how the Bolivarian Republic started (ca. 1800-1820) in central america. It didn't have quite the staying power of the USA. I'm sure there are more examples of going far away and then ignoring authority, but none jump to mind right now. Or do as some whaling nations do: define whatever activities you want to carry out as "scientific research" which just coincidentally requires the recovery of megatonnes of minerals (or whatever), then go at it. Lute Keyser had just this sort of arrangement with Libya (I think) in the late '70's for his commercial space launch project (one of the very earliest). It was killed by Soviet propaganda about NATO cruise missiles in Africa, which made Libya renege on the arrangement.

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Just because they can do it anyway, somehow, does not mean it is smart to make the job easier for them. -- "On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey! On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole that she made from Leftover Turkey. [days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ... -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

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While I agree with much of this post, one point seems mis-directed... And when controlled for usage of oil, gas, etc. energy efficiency in all countries turns out to be identical :-) To take population density as an example, one way to reduce energy used in transportation is surely to concentrate the population in dense urban areas (though this might, of course, have other disadvantages, possibly even relating to energy use). The fact that Japan is forced to do this by the nature of the country, while the US is not, does not mean that people in the US would be unable to do this if given sufficient motive to conserve energy.

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Are we talking about me, or the majority of the people that support it? Anyway, I think that "revenge" or "fairness" is why most people are in favor of the punishment. If a murderer is going to be punished, people that think that he should "get what he deserves." Most people wouldn't think it would be fair for the murderer to live, while his victim died. Perhaps you think that it is petty and pathetic, but your views are in the minority. Where are we required to have compassion, forgiveness, and sympathy? If someone wrongs me, I will take great lengths to make sure that his advantage is removed, or a similar situation is forced upon him. If someone kills another, then we can apply the golden rule and kill this person in turn. Is not our entire moral system based on such a concept? Or, are you stating that human life is sacred, somehow, and that it should never be violated? This would sound like some sort of religious view. Once a criminal has committed a murder, his desires are irrelevant. And, you still have not answered my question. If you are concerned about the death penalty due to the possibility of the execution of an innocent, then why isn't this same concern shared with imprisonment. Shouldn't we, by your logic, administer as minimum as punishment as possible, to avoid violating the liberty or happiness of an innocent person?

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: Frank Crary posted: : : Sure, but the difference in per-capita crime rates predates the : : gun control laws: The homicide rate in England was a tenth that : : of America, back when anyone in England could buy a gun without : : any paperwork at all. : Steve Manes asks: : > Got a citation for this? : Colin Greenwood from Scotland Yard did a study that showed that gun : control has had no effect on crime or murder rates in the UK. His book, : _Firearms_Controls_, has been published in London by Keegan Paul (name : may be misspelled). Others dispute that, like Richard Hofstadter, <America As A Gun Culture>, and Newton and Zimring's <Firearms and Violence in American Life>. But, again, statistics between too dissimilar cultures are difficult to quantify. I don't know how anyone can state that gun control could have NO effect on homicide rates. There were over 250 >accidental< handgun homicides in America in 1990, most with licensed weapons. More American children accidentally shot other children last year (15) than all the handgun homicides in Great Britain. (Source: National Safety Council. Please... no dictionary arguments about RATES vs TOTAL NUMBERS, okay? They're offered for emphasis, not comparison). If Mr. Greenwood believes that Brits are much too sober and coordinated to make such mistakes I'd like to introduce him to my friend, Amanda from Brighton. I used to have some pretty nice crystal in my place until she moved in. I've gotten used to the snide comments from guests about the clown motif on my rubber wine glasses.

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Kent: With all due respect, how can I take you seriously, when you have the NAMES wrong in the 1st place? E.g.: There is no such thing. The correct name is Ancient & Mystical Order Rosae Crucis, abbreviated AMORC. There is no such thing either. It's the Rosicrucian Fellowship. And they clearly state that they DO NOT pretend to descend from the Order of the Fama Fraternitatis. The Lectorium? And who else? These are NOT Rosicrucian "orders". They are Masonic study groups, none of which *claims* to be descendant of the original Order. What is ORC? If you mean AMORC, you didn't even learn the correct name?!

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True. At first, the news media seemed entranced by all the new gizmos the military was using, not to mention the taped video transmissions from the missiles as they zeroed in on their targets. But later, and especially after the bunker full of civilians was hit, they changed their tone. It seemed to me that they didn't have the stomach for the reality of war, that innocent people really do die and are maimed in warfare. It's like they were only pro-Gulf-War as long as it was "nice and clean" (smart missiles dropping in on military HQs), but not when pictures of dead, dying, and maimed civilians started cropping up. What naive hypocrites! [ discussion about blanket-bombing and A-bombs deleted.] ^^^^^^^^^ I should have said here "militarily justified". It seems from your comments below that you understood this as meaning "morally justified". I apologize. I have often wondered about this. I've always thought that the first bomb should have been dropped on Japan's island fortress of Truk. A good, inpenatrable military target. The second bomb could've been held back for use on an industrial center if need be. But I digress. Yes, I have heard that we found evidence (after the war, BTW) that Japan was seriously considering surrender after the first bomb. Unfortunately, the military junta won out over the moderates and rejected the US's ulimatum. Therefore the second bomb was dropped. Most unfortunate, IMO. I don't regret the fact that sometimes military decisions have to be made which affect the lives of innocent people. But I do regret the circumstances which make those decisions necessary, and I regret the suffering caused by those decisions. [...] Actually, it was the fact that both situations existed that prompted US and allied action. If some back-water country took over some other back-water country, we probably wouldn't intervene. Not that we don't care, but we can't be the world's policman. Or if a coup had occured in Kuwait (instead of an invasion), then we still wouldn't have acted because there would not have been the imminent danger perceived to Saudi Arabia. But the combination of the two, an unprovoked invasion by a genocidal tyrant AND the potential danger to the West's oil interests, caused us to take action. [...] I'm not setting up a strawman at all. If you want to argue against the war, then the only logical alternative was to allow Hussein to keep Kuwait. Diplomatic alternatives, including sanctions, were ineffective. Well, in a sense, yes. They probably had no idea of what end Hitler would lead their nation to. They suffered along with the rest. Why does this bother you so much? The world is full of evil, and circumstances are not perfect. Many innocents suffer due to the wrongful actions of others. It it regretable, but that's The-Way-It-Is. There are no perfect solutions. [...] Probably because we're not the saviors of the world. We can't police each and every country that decides to self-destruct or invade another. Nor are we in a strategic position to get relief to Tibet, East Timor, or some other places. Tell me how we could stop them and I'll support it. I, for one, do not agree with the present US policy of "sucking up to them" as you put it. I agree that it is deplorable. Are they? Or are they supposed to reflect the population of the locale where the trial is held? (Normally this is where the crime is committed unless one party or the other can convince the judge a change of venue is in order.) I'm not an expert on California law, or even US law, but it seems that this is the way the system is set up. You can criticize the system, but let's not have unfounded allegations of racial prejudice thrown around. No, not at all. The point is that the fact that there were no blacks on the first jury and that Rodney King is black is totally irrelevant. Germans, perhaps. "Peers" doesn't mean "those who do the same thing", like having murderers judge murderers. It means "having people from the same station in life", presumably because they are in a better position to understand the defendent's motivation(s). OK, granted. However, you are using this reasoning as part of *your* logical argument in this discussion. This is not a court of law. The media is not totally monolithic. Even though there is a prevailing liberal bias, programs such as the MacNeil-Lehrer News Hour try to give a balanced and fair reporting of the news. There are even conservative sources out there if you know where to look. (Hurrah for Rush!) BTW, I never used the word "conspiracy". I don't accept (without *far* more evidence) theories that there is some all-pervading liberal conspiracy attempting to take over all news sources. Hardly. I didn't say that it's a Good Thing [tm] to kill innocent people if the end is just. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and there are no perfect solutions. If one is going to resist tyranny, then innocent people on both sides are going to suffer and die. I didn't say it is OK -- it is unfortunate, but sometimes necessary. I would agree that it was evil in the sense that it caused much pain and suffering. I'm not so sure that it was unnecessary as you say. That conclusion can only be arrived at by evaluating all the factors involved. And perhaps it *was* unnecessary as (let's say) we now know. That doesn't mean that those who had to make the decision to bomb didn't see it as being necessary. Rarely can one have full known of the consequences of an action before making a decision. At the time it may have seemed necessary enough to go ahead with it. But don't assume that I feel the bombing was *morally* justified -- I don't! I just don't condemn those who had to make a difficult decision under difficult circumstances. You certainly are not in such a position if you are a moral relativist. I, as an absolutist, am in a position to judge, but I defer judgment. Wrong. They were neither moral then nor now. They seemed necessary to those making the decisions to bring a quick end to the war. I simply refuse to condemn them for their decision. One day I will stand before Jesus and give account of every word and action; even this discourse in this forum. I understand the full ramifications of that, and I am prepared to do so. I don't believe that you can make the same claim. And BTW, the reason I brought up the blanket-bombing in Germany was because you were bemoaning the Iraqi civilian casualties as being "so deplorable". Yet blanket bombing was instituted because bombing wasn't accurate enough to hit industrial/military targets in a decisive way by any other method at that time. But in the Gulf War, precision bombing was the norm. So the point was, why make a big stink about the relatively few civilian casualties that resulted *in spite of* precision bombing, when so many more civilians (proportionately and quantitatively) died under the blanket bombing in WW2? Even with precision bombing, mistakes happen and some civilians suffer. But less civilians suffered in this war than any other iany other in history! Many Iraqi civilians went about their lives with minimal interference from the allied air raids. The stories of "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqi civilian dead is just plain bunk. Yes, bunk. The US lost 230,000 servicemen in WW2 over four years and the majority of them were directly involved in fighting! But we are expected to swallow that "hundreds of thousands" of *civilian* Iraqis died in a war lasting about 2 months! And with the Allies using the most precise bombs ever created at that! What hogwash. If "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqi civilians died, it was due to actions Hussein took on his own people, not due to the Allied bombing. Regards,

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Nice try Deepak, but "tough Whaler squad" should have clued you in to the fact that my Leaf woofing was tongue-in-cheek. If playoff hockey is any more intense than the regular season variety then it is because the teams are facing each other at least 4 consecutive times in 7 days and hockey being the contact sport that it is, some things will be carried over that might dissipate during the regular season. But that is only for some of the players. Many of the rest, who have been playing with injuries, who miss their families, or who, like Grant Fuhr, would really rather be playing golf, don't really give a damn. Of course I can't say this for sure, but I believe that this is fairly typical of human nature and I don't think that hockey players are above having what I consider typically human attitudes. With the recent salary escalations the key players are actually losing money by participating in the playoffs. The ones who regard the playoff "take" as some kind of a bonanza are fringe players who are unlikely to consistently be a force in the playoffs. Now I know some of you are going to come back with "winning spirit" and all of that crap but these players are professionals after all. While they may love to play the game that love is entirely incidental to their purpose, which is, to make a decent living. Of course, the coach is a professional as well, and part of what he is being paid to do is motivate the players. So, if the coach does his job well enough the players may respond with a winning effort. The second season, is after all, merely an exhibition. The true Champions of the league are the division winners, the teams that come out on top after the long struggle of the season. The Stanley cup playoffs merely accord victory to the team that has remained healthy and "hot". The emphasis on the playoffs, with their "sudden death" appeal has been promoted by the media and the owners with profit purely in mind. Even if Pittsburgh loses the playoffs, we all know that they were really the best team in the league over the year. They proved it. cordially, as always, rm

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Glad to hear this, just a note, Osiris, Mithras and many other cult gods resurrected as well, so there's a good chance for all of us to maybe end up in a virtual reality simulator, and live forever, hurrah! Sorry, this was a joke, some sort of one anyway. I'm the first that connected Osiris with a virtual reality personality database. Time to write a book. Cheers, Kent

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From: Kayhan Havai # 1026 -------------------------- o Dr. Namaki, deputy minister of health stated that infant mortality (under one year old) in Iran went down from 120 per thousand before the revolution to 33 per thousand at the end of 1371 (last month). o Dr Namaki also stated that before the revolution only 254f children received vaccinations to protect them from various deseases but this figure reached 93at the end of 1371. o Dr. Malekzadeh, the minister of health mentioned that the population growth rate in Iran at the end of 1371 went below 2.7 o During the visit of Mahathir Mohammad, the prime minister of Malaysia, to Iran, agreements for cooperation in the areas of industry, trade, education and tourism were signed. According to one agreement, Iran will be in charge of building Malaysia's natural gas network. ---------------------------------------------------------- - Farzin Mokhtarian

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Probably because everyone (that is, everyone who has cable) can watch every Braves game. They are the only team that has all of its games broadcast nationwide. And if you don't like your local team, or you don't have a local team, the Braves can kind of become your local team because you can watch them every day. --I'm outta here like Vladimir! -Alan

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The shell is waiting for the window-manager to respond to its positioning request. The window-manager is not responding because it thinks the window is already in the right place. Exactly *why* the two components get into this sulk is unclear to me; all information greatly received.

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Hmm...makes you wonder whether prayer "in Jesus' name" means "saying Jesus' name" or whether we're simply to do all things with the attitude that we belong to Jesus. Frank D.

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I *loved* Dan Kelly! He was on USA when I first got hooked on Hockey back in 1980 or so. No, he wasn't always spot on top of the play, and he wasn't overly cute, but those pipes! That lusty, barrel chested, voice! No pipsqueak was he (unlike some fellas we know!) I rode into hockey mania on the coattails of Gretzky and the Boys on the Bus. My first Finals saw the Islanders sweep them. But I'll never forget the night, a year later, when the Oilers closed it out at home in the pandemonium, the smoke from a million sparklers, the long empty-net goal near the end, and Dan Kelly letting the crowd's reaction tell the story for a few long seconds, then that voice barking through the din "Dave Lumley ... sews it up for Edmonton!" It sounds stupid, but that early (for me) hockey memory will always bring a thrill. Since then I've grown a lot more jaded about the game, but I was really saddened by Dan Kelly's passing. He was one of the good guys.

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If there is anyone attending the ISSA conference in Arlington, VA next week, I would appreciate them getting in touch with me.

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(1) No explicit (c) is necessary. If it the image is attributed to the Geosphere Company, then there is a likelihood permission is has been given to reprint. (2) Unlikely that the owner can or will go after individuals. However, "interesting" images do make their way into ads and computer demos. That is when a pirate might get some flak. This image is considered so "interesting" that many people would like to use it whenever some global map is needed, so there is lots of temptation. (3) One mail person said since the source data- satellite imagery- is not copyrighted, then the derived image can't be. Not true. A new, distinctive, creative expression of the data can be protected. This image is certainly fits such, since NO ONE ELSE has taken the tremendous effort to re-create it themselves. Precedent is a recent telephone book court case. Ma Bell tried to copyright the data in their books and prevent competitors from copying it (there are trick entries in the book). But the court only permitted copyright of the expression of the data, and not the data themselves. (You cant xerox and sell the telephone book.) (4) There will be more attention to digital copyrights in the future and computer becomes a mass product and moguls such as Bill Gates are currently hoarding the digital copyrights.

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Rogers is the "one-batter lefty" in the bullpen. Dusty has also said he trusts Rogers to get the final out in a ballgame where Beck is unavailable, so you might see a couple of saves for Kevin. Then again, if any of the regular rotation falters, Rogers is a possible candidate to start, though this would appear less likely now that Dave Burba did well in an emergency start.

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We are currently evaluating GUI builders, initially for Motif but with a wish to be flexible & portable. We have been through the popular names (UIMX, TeleUSE, XVT etc) and have been very impressed with what we have seen of Galaxy from Visix. I have spoken to current users from a list supplied by Visix (happy users as you would expect), and seen favourable comments on the net. However, since it is fairly expensive to get an evaluation license from Visix, I would like to query the net for any negative experiences with Galaxy. Did anybody evaluate them and prefer another tool or use Galaxy and regret it or find any mis-features ? advTHANKSance, Phil --

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I have the same card, TVGA-8900c. When I checked, the latest driver for windows 3.1 is dated Aug. 92 in garbo.uwasa.fi in /win31/drivers/video. If you find a better version (updated) please let me know, Thanks.

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: Are the Serbs doing the work of God? Hmm... : I've been wondering if anyone would ever ask the question, : Are the governments of the United States and Europe not moving : to end the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs because the targets are : muslims? : Can/Does God use those who are not following him to accomplish : tasks for him? Esp those tasks that are punative? : James Sledd : no cute sig.... but I'm working on it. Are you suggesting that God supports genocide? Perhaps the Germans were "punishing" Jews on God's behalf? Any God who works that way is indescribably evil, and unworthy of my worship or faith.

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The status of the House of Lords today is quite different to its status in 1789. Maddison and Hamilton were both studying existing forms of government for several years before they wrote the federalist papers. That the US system is based to a considerable degree on the UK model is pretty widely accepted. At the time there was no other major country with a representative body. The French plebicite had been suppressed for 140 years and its restoration eight years later would mark the start of the French revolution. After the UK system the major influences were the Dutch system and of course the classical systems. Nobody seriously suggests that Rome or Greece were models though because the political systems of both countries were acknowleged disasters. The main lesson learnt from Greece was that unless a federal state was constructed a war would be inevitable. The Greek democracies were always fighting amongst themselves which is how Rome managed to invade. Had the federal consitution been rejected the new Roman empire in the shape of Britain would quite certainly have reabsorbed much of the colonies in due course. Moreover the states would have been at each others throats as soon as the Louisiana purchase situation arose during the Napoleonic period.

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Well, simply put, drinking is irrelavent. Driving drunk is indefensable and unforgivable. There is a large differnece. But, then, with an attitude like yours, I expect you'll be dead soon. I just hope you don't take a human being out with you.

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I have a routine that changes the color (RGB) attributes on my VGA adapter, but it doesn't work in the mode that I need. Specifically 68 hex. An obscure mode, of course, but I need to change the zillions of colors to 64 shade greyscale, but I do not have the correct memory address for the pointer I need. PLEASE, someone, I need the starting address, or maybe somewhere I can find it. Thank you.

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What files do I need to download for GhostScript 2.5.2? I have never used GhostScript before, so I don't have any files for it. What I *do* have is gs252win.zip, which I downloaded from Cica. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work on it's own, but needs some more files that I don't have. I want to run GhostScript both in Windows 3.1 and in MS-DOS on a 386 PC (I understand there's versions for both environments). What are all the files I need to download and where can I get them? Any info would be appeciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve W Brewer rewerB W evetS [email protected] ude.ellivsiuol.xvyklu@504832lc

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A developable surface is s.t. you can lay it (or roll it) flat on the plane (it may require you to give it a "cut" though...) E.g., a cylinder, a cone, a plane (of course!) or any surface or patch having vanishing Gaussian (intrinsic) curvature (i.e., with singular Hessian, the matrix of 2nd derivatives for an adequate coordinate patch) are "developable". In more technical words, a developable surface is "locally isometric to a plane" at all points. Think also of the sphere (or the earth) which in a non-developable: whatever way(s) you cut it, you will not be able to lay flat any pieces of it... (its intrinsic curvature is nowhere vanishing). For more details on this look at any book on differential geometry which treats surfaces (2D manifolds); e.g., M. do Carmo's book: @Book{Carmo76Differential, author = {do Carmo, Manfredo P.}, title = {Differential Geometry of Curves and Surfaces}, year = 1976, publisher = {Prentice-Hall}, note = {503 pages.}} Enjoy!

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Thanks for docs info. It turns out that if I leave out colormap updates between frames and use tvtwm, my tests with 100 400x400x8 frames on an IPX using the server-resident pixmap method give an astonishing *50* frames per second! And VERY smooth. I think I've found the best solution (thanks to the generous help on this group!) However, I may have colormap questions later..... Derek -----------------------------------------------------------

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The final stages of denial... I can hardly imagine what the result would have been if the Clinton administration had actually supported this plan, instead of merely acquiescing with repugnance as they've so obviously doing. I don't believe the chip originated with the Clinton administration either, but the Clinton administration has embraced it and brought it to fruition. Both of the major parties have what they consider excellent reasons for limiting your freedoms and violating your privacy, and even seem to feel that they're doing you a favor. If this is really surprising to anyone it means they've been willfully ignoring quite a bit of previous evidence. There's only one political party (not calling anarchists a party) that considers your freedom and privacy goals worthy in and of themselves. If you're voting for the big two, you're supporting a reduction of those rights (given their goals and their histories), regardless of whether you personally support that reduction. To paint Clinton and Gore as unwitting tools is really stretching things.

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I got just this far. What do you mean by "goal"? I hope you don't mean to imply that evolution has a conscious "goal".

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Well, since you mentioned it... No question here. Chip in the Masterson as well... Yep. If you asked me 30 days ago, I'd agree with you. I now give the nod to Raymond Bourque; his play took off the same time the B's did. Chelios gets a close second... Barrasso finally gets his due, in a close one over Eddie the Eagle... In *your* case, that bias is acceptable :-)... Mine shows with the Norris pick, so we're even... I'm impressed with what all the coaches you mentioned did, but my pick would be Al Arbour. Not too many folks thought the Isles would be in the playoffs, let alone contend for 3rd in their division... Granted that they *did* have a little help from their cousins on Broadway... :-) And I like the Islanders about as much as I like mowing my lawn...

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+ +I love the idea of an inflatable 1-mile long sign.... It will be a +really neat thing to see it explode when a bolt (or even better, a +Westford Needle!) comes crashing into it at 10 clicks a sec. + Pageos and two Echo balloons were inflated with a substance which expanded in vacuum. Once inflated the substance was no longer needed since there is nothing to cause the balloon to collapse. This inflatable structure could suffer multiple holes with no disastrous deflation.

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I'm an new to this. Having found some files (public) to look into, I ftp'ed them to a system I have access to. I then used kermit to transmit them via modem to my host computer, a PC-based file system. I access internet through modem access to a university mainframe. From the PC file server, I pull the files to a disk, and then pull them from disk to a SGI Indigo (the SGI is not networked yet). When I try to uncompress and un-tar the files, they either come out as garbage or I get an error in the tar process about directories being invalid. What I'm wondering about is the transfer of UNIX files (compressed, binary,ascii) about multiple platforms. My guess is that it is the copy to a 'dos' disk that is screwing things up. Any help is appreciated. bob

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We run "SpaceNews & Views" on our STAREACH BBS, a local operation running WWIV software with the capability to link to over 1500 other BBS's in the U.S.A. and Canada through WWIVNet. Having just started this a couple of months ago, our sub us currently subscribed by only about ten other boards, but more are being added. We get our news articles re on Internet, via ftp from NASA sites, and from a variety of aerospace related periodicals. We get a fair amount of questions on space topics from students who access the system. ____________________________________________________________

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.................... This example is probably wrong. There is the case of one famous physicist telling another that he was probably wrong. As I recall the quote: Your ideas are crazy, to be sure. But they are not crazy enough to be right. The typical screwball is only somewhat screwy.

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I have a video board for sale for Macintosh NU-Bus machines. My other deal fell through. I am asking $200. RasterOps 8XL 640x480 800x600 <--- This was incorrectly posted as 832x624 before. 640x870 1024x768 (60hz & 75 hz) 1152x870 Make offers by mail.

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: kevinh, on the Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:23:01 GMT wibbled: Jonathan Quist bemoaned: : : |> Yes, it's a minor blasphemy that U.S. companies would ?? on the likes of A.M., : : |> Jaguar, or (sob) Lotus. It's outright sacrilege for RR to have non-British : : |> ownership. It's a fundamental thing Lotus looks set for a management buyout. GM weren't happy that the Elan was late and too pricey. If they can write off the Elan development costs the may be able to sell them for a sensible price. : : I think there is a legal clause in the RR name, regardless of who owns it : : it must be a British company/owner - i.e. BA can sell the company but not : : the name. : : [email protected] : I don't believe that BA have anything to do with RR. It's a seperate : company from the RR Aero-Engine company. It's Vickers who own Rolls Royce cars. And yes Kevin it is posts, Morgan use a sliding pillar front suspension. Ob Bike (at long bleeding last): When will that Pettefar bloke get a mail address so we can bung him on the Ogri list? dave

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Try [email protected] or [email protected] --

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[In looking through my files this weekend, I ran across some lyrics from various rock groups that have content. Here are two from Black Sabbath's "Master of Reality". I'll say this much for the music of the '60's and early '70's, at least they asked questions of significance. Jethro Tull is another to asked and wrote about things that caused one to wonder. --Rex] AFTER FOREVER Have you ever thought about your soul-- can it be saved? Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in you grave. Is God just a thought within you read in a book when you were at school? When you think about death Do you lose your breath Or do you keep your cool? Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope? Do you think he's a fool? Well I have seen the truth. Yes I have seen the light and I've changed my ways. And I'll be prepared When you're lonely and scared at the end of your days. Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say If they knew you believed in God above? They should realize before they criticise That God is the only way to love. Is your mind so small that you have to fall In with the pack wherever they run? Will you still sneer when death is near And say they may as well worship the sun? I think it was true -it was people like you that crucified Christ. I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced. Will you be so sure when your day is near to say you don't believe? You had the chance but you turned it down now you can't retrieve. Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead & gone Open your eyes, just realize that He is the one. The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate. Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late. LORD OF THIS WORLD

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