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those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.Gareth Pierce: And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily--pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Darren.Darren Millar AM: I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you're telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it's already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbookMike Ebbsworth: We can only work on those books that are in Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they the process of being developed. Naturally, if something is late in English, then that timetable would be affected in terms of a decision that will ultimately have to be taken. But that's the hope: that when new textbooks are produced in English and authored in English, we would look at that eight-week period as a turnaround.Darren Millar AM: I understand the point that you made earlier about the chapter-by-chapter approach, which seems much more equitable. But to suggest that you will delay books that could be available for students and could be available for teachers to be able to access by two months because you haven't got the systems in place to be able to produce them on the same day, seems to be wholly inappropriate. Can I ask, also, why on earth it isn't possible to produce Welsh-medium textbooks first and then translate them to English on occasionsMike Ebbsworth: We're entirely open to that and to that sort of model.Darren Millar AM: So, why has that never ever been doneGareth Pierce: Well, of course, it would happen with subjects that stem from Wales, but I think the problem is that we work with publishers and those publishers and their authors, therefore, tend to work through the medium of English. But, just to be clear, this idea of delaying an English version is something that the Welsh Government is eager for us to experiment with, but not with textbooks that are already late. They are within the new programme of textbooks that are contained within the grant that you mentioned of PS500,000. So, in a way, this is an experiment and the Welsh Government wants to look at this as one way of responding to the complaint that there are different timetables available.Darren Millar AM: So, you're being forced to to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue--clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to

Why did Darren Millar AM disagree about WJEC's approaches to textbooks

Darren Millar thought replacing textbooks would cause a lot of pressure and extra work for teachers and students, believing that the textbook was a basic element for children to learn and revise and an essential core piece for qualification. Also the digital resources were not accessible for everyone even in Wales. Darren Millar AN was also worried some learners would face disadvantages as a result of textbooks, who might not adapt digital contents well.

those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue--clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they we saw yesterday. They particularly wanted to stress this point I think; that the quality of teaching is probably the most dominant and the most important factor in relation to a learner's ultimate performance in the examination.Darren Millar AM: I understand that, but you also understand that someone who doesn't have the resources that they feel are best suited to them face some element of a greater disadvantage than others for whom, perhaps, textbooks are less important.Gareth Pierce: I think also, perhaps, related to that, it is important to mention digital literacy here. Every young person in Wales, I would hope, taking GCSE or A-level, should have that digital literacy in order to source the valuable materials available--that they should have those skills. Then, they have the choice whether they go down the digital route, or do they do as Mike suggested--much of the digital material can be printed--or do they then turn to textbooks, in the hope that those would be available That would then allow for a pupil's personal learning choice to be reflected. It's also important for teachers to confirm that their ways of teaching do support these alternative approaches taken by pupils. Not every pupil will choose to learn or revise in exactly the same way. So, the flexibility for the pupil is very important, I think.Darren Millar AM: I understand that, but I've got people in my constituency who haven't even got a broadband link at home, so there's a digital disadvantage as well. Can I just ask you about the reason why this has taking so long to sort out It was back in 2015 that concerns were first raised about the availability of textbooks in both English and Welsh for the new qualifications. We're three years on, what on earth has been happening in which the awarding bodies will set grades--so, the awarding process, the methods that will be used--and then we monitor WJEC's award of grades against those processes. During a period of change, we prescribe the use of comparable outcomes as the primary approach, largely because comparable outcomes are designed for circumstances like this, where there's a change in a specification particularly, because there are any number of reasons, including resources, why performance may be different from one year to the next, but comparable outcomes is there to ensure that, all things being equal, if the cohorts have the same ability, the same grade should be awarded from one year to the next. We do recognise that there have been delays in textbooks. Much of that has been related to the timelines that we've all had to deliver new specifications against, which have been far from ideal for everybody involved. We think that particularly our role moving forward will be looking at the timelines for reforms that will be necessary for the new curriculum to make sure that this situation isn't repeated and that there is sufficient time in future reforms to allow for greater system readiness. In terms of the roles of others, Welsh Government have a role at the moment in terms of grant funding of translation of materials into Welsh medium. And there is, through the common model at the moment--and this is a model that is common between England and Wales--a reliance on commercial publishers to provide textbooks. Now, that's something that probably needs to be looked at in the future in terms of potential different models for how that might be achieved and also, potentially, around a paradigm shift in what's expected of those materials. So, I think that sets out Qualification Wales's position in particular.Lynne

How did the WJEC tackle the concerns raised by Darren Millar AM

About the accessibility of digital resources, Mike Ebbsworth held that the teachers could print the materials to suit the learners at any given time, while Gareth Pierce believed that the technology, as well as the content of a textbook in some form, was vital. They both agreed that the digitalization process would add flexibility to the teaching materials. About the pupils'adaptation of digital contents, the WJEC thought digital literacy was a basic skill for examinations as A-level or GSCE. Also it was hard to evaluate whether it was the lack of textbooks that affected pupils'performance, as there were so many factors.

those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in that video--they are available in English only. Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are that are worth translating And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a few websites, or a few case studies, in this big external digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers'time. But I also think that the use of both languages is an interesting one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the A-level classes I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way of enriching the teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translating happening, and perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Just to pick up on your point on the additional materials, whose role would it be to asses this or to take that overview, and then to respond to the demandGareth Pierce: Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.Mike Ebbsworth: Yes. That is extremely important--to identify, as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and the consortia, and ensuring then that we are focusing on those things that need that attention.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But would you-- The question I'm asking the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.Gareth Pierce: And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily--pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Darren.Darren Millar AM: I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you're telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it's already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbookMike Ebbsworth: We can only work on those books that are in Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they we need authors who can be developed, and authors who would be willing to work with the publishers. That's a very specific theme within one of the ideas of the seminars with publishers.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Would that market be viable without any sort of subsidy, if it were to develop bilingually Or do we have to accept that they have to have an element of public subsidyGareth Pierce: Our view in the WJEC is that subsidy will be necessary. But we could rethink the model for the subsidy, perhaps. At the moment, the subsidy is described as a subsidy for the Welsh-medium version. Why not rethink that and think of a subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the Welsh curriculum And perhaps we would need a little more funding for that. But there will be organisations such as the WJEC who will still be interested in contributing, because we are a charity, and within our mission is investment in various things that supports education in Wales.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But in terms of where we are now, resources have to be translated. I struggle at times to understand why it takes so much time to translate a resource. I would like to know better, perhaps, what the main barriers are in that sense. But also, how long is acceptable to wait for a translation, in your viewMike Ebbsworth: We've done a great deal of work recently, over recent years, to ensure that that delay between having an English version and a Welsh version is reduced. We are highly aware of the fact that the best-case scenario is that the Welsh and the English are available simultaneously. In those terms, we've taken huge steps forward with the publishers that we've named this morning, so that we have discussed translation as

What did Gareth Pierce talk about the subsidy in developing materials bilingually

Gareth Pierce believed that the subsidy would be necessary, and thought of the subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the curriculum.

that video--they are available in English only. Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are that are worth translating And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a few websites, or a few case studies, in this big external digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers'time. But I also think that the use of both languages is an interesting one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the A-level classes I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way of enriching the teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translating happening, and perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Just to pick up on your point on the additional materials, whose role would it be to asses this or to take that overview, and then to respond to the demandGareth Pierce: Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.Mike Ebbsworth: Yes. That is extremely important--to identify, as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and the consortia, and ensuring then that we are focusing on those things that need that attention.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But would you-- The question I'm asking those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.Gareth Pierce: And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily--pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Darren.Darren Millar AM: I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you're telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it's already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbookMike Ebbsworth: We can only work on those books that are in we need authors who can be developed, and authors who would be willing to work with the publishers. That's a very specific theme within one of the ideas of the seminars with publishers.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Would that market be viable without any sort of subsidy, if it were to develop bilingually Or do we have to accept that they have to have an element of public subsidyGareth Pierce: Our view in the WJEC is that subsidy will be necessary. But we could rethink the model for the subsidy, perhaps. At the moment, the subsidy is described as a subsidy for the Welsh-medium version. Why not rethink that and think of a subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the Welsh curriculum And perhaps we would need a little more funding for that. But there will be organisations such as the WJEC who will still be interested in contributing, because we are a charity, and within our mission is investment in various things that supports education in Wales.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But in terms of where we are now, resources have to be translated. I struggle at times to understand why it takes so much time to translate a resource. I would like to know better, perhaps, what the main barriers are in that sense. But also, how long is acceptable to wait for a translation, in your viewMike Ebbsworth: We've done a great deal of work recently, over recent years, to ensure that that delay between having an English version and a Welsh version is reduced. We are highly aware of the fact that the best-case scenario is that the Welsh and the English are available simultaneously. In those terms, we've taken huge steps forward with the publishers that we've named this morning, so that we have discussed translation as Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they

What was the decision of WJEC to reduce the delay between materials having an English version and a Welsh version

The publishers in England agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version was available and then to publish simultaneously.

those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in that video--they are available in English only. Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are that are worth translating And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a few websites, or a few case studies, in this big external digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers'time. But I also think that the use of both languages is an interesting one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the A-level classes I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way of enriching the teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translating happening, and perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Just to pick up on your point on the additional materials, whose role would it be to asses this or to take that overview, and then to respond to the demandGareth Pierce: Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.Mike Ebbsworth: Yes. That is extremely important--to identify, as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and the consortia, and ensuring then that we are focusing on those things that need that attention.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But would you-- The question I'm asking the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.Gareth Pierce: And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily--pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Darren.Darren Millar AM: I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you're telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it's already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbookMike Ebbsworth: We can only work on those books that are in Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they we need authors who can be developed, and authors who would be willing to work with the publishers. That's a very specific theme within one of the ideas of the seminars with publishers.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Would that market be viable without any sort of subsidy, if it were to develop bilingually Or do we have to accept that they have to have an element of public subsidyGareth Pierce: Our view in the WJEC is that subsidy will be necessary. But we could rethink the model for the subsidy, perhaps. At the moment, the subsidy is described as a subsidy for the Welsh-medium version. Why not rethink that and think of a subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the Welsh curriculum And perhaps we would need a little more funding for that. But there will be organisations such as the WJEC who will still be interested in contributing, because we are a charity, and within our mission is investment in various things that supports education in Wales.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But in terms of where we are now, resources have to be translated. I struggle at times to understand why it takes so much time to translate a resource. I would like to know better, perhaps, what the main barriers are in that sense. But also, how long is acceptable to wait for a translation, in your viewMike Ebbsworth: We've done a great deal of work recently, over recent years, to ensure that that delay between having an English version and a Welsh version is reduced. We are highly aware of the fact that the best-case scenario is that the Welsh and the English are available simultaneously. In those terms, we've taken huge steps forward with the publishers that we've named this morning, so that we have discussed translation as

Why was the council disagree about WJEC's decision to delay the Welsh/English version

Darren Millar AM thought it was inappropriate to delay the availability of a textbook that was already late on schedule so that the two language version could be published on the same day. John Griffiths worried that the approach would potentially put English students using the English-language version or Welsh students using the Welsh-language version at a disadvantage.

those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in build their teams, and develop skills within those teams, and to have enough certainty that this is worth doing. And therefore, those are the sort of issues that we're starting a discussion on, in the hope of having a discussion in June to move that forward. Of course, Welsh Government, Qualifications Wales and other stakeholders are part of this discussion, not only WJEC, but we've been part of initiating that discussion.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Is this developing at the pace that you would like to see it developingGareth Pierce: Yes, I think, and there is some enthusiasm. For example, a number of publishers in Wales are within an association describing itself as Cwlwm Cyhoeddwyr Cymru. Myrddin ap Dafydd is chair of Cwlwm at the moment, and there is enthusiasm and vision, certainly. So, there's a wonderful opportunity, I think, for Wales to interpret these possibilities swiftly and then hopefully take action on them.Llyr Gruffydd AM: And we're talking here not just about translating but developing resources, and the point, I think, is an important one around some of the evidence that we've received about the importance of developing resources naturally bilingually from the very beginning, rather than having to translate something. Because there have been comments that translations are clunky, difficult to follow and not--I'm not saying that they're not fit for purpose, but certainly don't facilitate teaching, perhaps, as easily as one would wish.Gareth Pierce: Yes, I would agee, and that begins with the authors, doesn't it We must have the authors--Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, the expertise, and the same capacty with the publishers as well.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we do want to nurture authors within Wales, particularly given that the new curriculum has to do justice to a Welsh dimension within the curriculum in so many different subjects. So, to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue--clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to in which the awarding bodies will set grades--so, the awarding process, the methods that will be used--and then we monitor WJEC's award of grades against those processes. During a period of change, we prescribe the use of comparable outcomes as the primary approach, largely because comparable outcomes are designed for circumstances like this, where there's a change in a specification particularly, because there are any number of reasons, including resources, why performance may be different from one year to the next, but comparable outcomes is there to ensure that, all things being equal, if the cohorts have the same ability, the same grade should be awarded from one year to the next. We do recognise that there have been delays in textbooks. Much of that has been related to the timelines that we've all had to deliver new specifications against, which have been far from ideal for everybody involved. We think that particularly our role moving forward will be looking at the timelines for reforms that will be necessary for the new curriculum to make sure that this situation isn't repeated and that there is sufficient time in future reforms to allow for greater system readiness. In terms of the roles of others, Welsh Government have a role at the moment in terms of grant funding of translation of materials into Welsh medium. And there is, through the common model at the moment--and this is a model that is common between England and Wales--a reliance on commercial publishers to provide textbooks. Now, that's something that probably needs to be looked at in the future in terms of potential different models for how that might be achieved and also, potentially, around a paradigm shift in what's expected of those materials. So, I think that sets out Qualification Wales's position in particular.Lynne Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations of interest, pleaseDarren Millar AM: Yes, I have a declaration of interest, Chair. I understand that my daughter features in one of the videos that is going to be used to contribute evidence to this inquiry. And, in addition, I'm a governor of one of the schools that features in the video.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Darren. So, item 2, then, today is our first session on the provision of textbooks and learning resources for pupils, which is a video of interviews with young people and teachers. The committee team has been out to take video evidence around Wales, and we're now going to watch the results of that on the screen. Okay. Well, I'm sure that the committee would want me to place on record our thanks to the young people and the teachers who took part in that very helpful and informative video. We'll move on now then to our evidence session, and I'm very pleased to welcome Gareth Pierce, chief executive of the WJEC, Mike Ebbsworth, assistant director educational support, WJEC, Philip Blaker, chief executive of Qualifications Wales, and Emyr George, associate director general qualifications at Qualifications Wales. So, thank you all of you for attending and thank you for the papers that you provided in advance as well. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions now, and if I can just start by asking you to outline what you see as your role in ensuring that students and teachers in Wales have the resources that they need to pass general qualifications and what you think the role of commercial publishers and

What did Gareth Pierce think of the digital inequalities as a kind of unfairness

Gareth pierce believed that there were different types of unfairness in different individuals'opinions. It was hard to judge what sort of inequality could be having an impact on young people in therms of achievement. So Gareth Pierce didn't think he could go any further than acknowledging any inequality was unfair.

those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in build their teams, and develop skills within those teams, and to have enough certainty that this is worth doing. And therefore, those are the sort of issues that we're starting a discussion on, in the hope of having a discussion in June to move that forward. Of course, Welsh Government, Qualifications Wales and other stakeholders are part of this discussion, not only WJEC, but we've been part of initiating that discussion.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Is this developing at the pace that you would like to see it developingGareth Pierce: Yes, I think, and there is some enthusiasm. For example, a number of publishers in Wales are within an association describing itself as Cwlwm Cyhoeddwyr Cymru. Myrddin ap Dafydd is chair of Cwlwm at the moment, and there is enthusiasm and vision, certainly. So, there's a wonderful opportunity, I think, for Wales to interpret these possibilities swiftly and then hopefully take action on them.Llyr Gruffydd AM: And we're talking here not just about translating but developing resources, and the point, I think, is an important one around some of the evidence that we've received about the importance of developing resources naturally bilingually from the very beginning, rather than having to translate something. Because there have been comments that translations are clunky, difficult to follow and not--I'm not saying that they're not fit for purpose, but certainly don't facilitate teaching, perhaps, as easily as one would wish.Gareth Pierce: Yes, I would agee, and that begins with the authors, doesn't it We must have the authors--Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, the expertise, and the same capacty with the publishers as well.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we do want to nurture authors within Wales, particularly given that the new curriculum has to do justice to a Welsh dimension within the curriculum in so many different subjects. So, Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they that video--they are available in English only. Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are that are worth translating And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a few websites, or a few case studies, in this big external digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers'time. But I also think that the use of both languages is an interesting one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the A-level classes I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way of enriching the teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translating happening, and perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Just to pick up on your point on the additional materials, whose role would it be to asses this or to take that overview, and then to respond to the demandGareth Pierce: Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.Mike Ebbsworth: Yes. That is extremely important--to identify, as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and the consortia, and ensuring then that we are focusing on those things that need that attention.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But would you-- The question I'm asking to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue--clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to

According to Gareth Pierce, how did they develop the pupils'skills to analyse and combine information into a discursive argument

They drew on a body of expertise and emphasized the importance of the approach and skill. They would also assist young people with their engagement with the scholar items and understanding some themes.

that video--they are available in English only. Therefore, I think another interesting question is: can we discover what those additional resources are that are worth translating And, certainly, it would be very unfortunate if there were a dozen Welsh-medium schools, for example, translating material from the same website independently of each other. If there are a few websites, or a few case studies, in this big external digital world that are worth translating, shouldn't we able to source those early Because I don't think it's a good use of teachers'time. But I also think that the use of both languages is an interesting one. What is the vision in terms of teaching in a Welsh-medium class, in particular, perhaps, in the A-level classes I'm sure that some teachers feel that there is a way of enriching the teaching by referring to terms in both languages, as well as explaining those terms in their own language. But the impression I got from the video was that there was quite a lot of mechanical translating happening, and perhaps there is a need to understand more of the context.Lynne Neagle AM: Llyr on this.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Just to pick up on your point on the additional materials, whose role would it be to asses this or to take that overview, and then to respond to the demandGareth Pierce: Mike, in the WJEC, has conversations about resources in the team he's part of.Mike Ebbsworth: Yes. That is extremely important--to identify, as Gareth has just said, those materials that need to be translated, and not everything needs to. We've made a lot of use recently of speaking with teachers and the consortia, and ensuring then that we are focusing on those things that need that attention.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But would you-- The question I'm asking those textbooks. So, we use that funding to provide editorial support to the process, and also to pay for translation costs, and we give significant guidance in terms of terminology. We have a language services team including excellent editors and translators within the WJEC, and we work closely with external translators too, and we use translation technology increasingly, which facilitates a great many things. Beyond that, I think the WJEC does see the need for flexibility, particularly when difficulties arise, and you heard there of some of the methods used by Mike and others to get digital resources available earlier than the print versions. And I should also note perhaps that, as the WJEC is very much involved with stakeholders, we feel that we do have a contribution to make in terms of ideas for the future.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. We heard in the video that teachers are spending a lot of their time actually translating materials. What is your view on that as a good use of teachers'time in WalesGareth Pierce: I think the question of translation is an interesting one. There was talk about pupils translating and teachers translating. I think perhaps we need to understand what causes the need for that because, as I mentioned earlier, there are so many resources available digitally in both languages at the same time. Perhaps an interesting question is: is that source useful for teachers, being able to draw resources from two sources Another interesting question, I think, is--. The Welsh language, of course, is a language that is used in an educational context, but we are in a big world that's an English language world. I'm very aware that many of the websites we refer to in our resources and many of the case studies, as was mentioned in we need authors who can be developed, and authors who would be willing to work with the publishers. That's a very specific theme within one of the ideas of the seminars with publishers.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Would that market be viable without any sort of subsidy, if it were to develop bilingually Or do we have to accept that they have to have an element of public subsidyGareth Pierce: Our view in the WJEC is that subsidy will be necessary. But we could rethink the model for the subsidy, perhaps. At the moment, the subsidy is described as a subsidy for the Welsh-medium version. Why not rethink that and think of a subsidy for producing resources in two languages for the Welsh curriculum And perhaps we would need a little more funding for that. But there will be organisations such as the WJEC who will still be interested in contributing, because we are a charity, and within our mission is investment in various things that supports education in Wales.Llyr Gruffydd AM: But in terms of where we are now, resources have to be translated. I struggle at times to understand why it takes so much time to translate a resource. I would like to know better, perhaps, what the main barriers are in that sense. But also, how long is acceptable to wait for a translation, in your viewMike Ebbsworth: We've done a great deal of work recently, over recent years, to ensure that that delay between having an English version and a Welsh version is reduced. We are highly aware of the fact that the best-case scenario is that the Welsh and the English are available simultaneously. In those terms, we've taken huge steps forward with the publishers that we've named this morning, so that we have discussed translation as Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue--clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to

How did WJEC respond to the criticisms from Estyn about the materials

Gareth Pierce decided that they would have regular meetings with Estyn about any problems with the specimen assessments and the mark schemes. They agreed with Estyn that ideally the whole package of resources should be available before teaching starts and would work on that.

Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue--clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to build their teams, and develop skills within those teams, and to have enough certainty that this is worth doing. And therefore, those are the sort of issues that we're starting a discussion on, in the hope of having a discussion in June to move that forward. Of course, Welsh Government, Qualifications Wales and other stakeholders are part of this discussion, not only WJEC, but we've been part of initiating that discussion.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Is this developing at the pace that you would like to see it developingGareth Pierce: Yes, I think, and there is some enthusiasm. For example, a number of publishers in Wales are within an association describing itself as Cwlwm Cyhoeddwyr Cymru. Myrddin ap Dafydd is chair of Cwlwm at the moment, and there is enthusiasm and vision, certainly. So, there's a wonderful opportunity, I think, for Wales to interpret these possibilities swiftly and then hopefully take action on them.Llyr Gruffydd AM: And we're talking here not just about translating but developing resources, and the point, I think, is an important one around some of the evidence that we've received about the importance of developing resources naturally bilingually from the very beginning, rather than having to translate something. Because there have been comments that translations are clunky, difficult to follow and not--I'm not saying that they're not fit for purpose, but certainly don't facilitate teaching, perhaps, as easily as one would wish.Gareth Pierce: Yes, I would agee, and that begins with the authors, doesn't it We must have the authors--Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, the expertise, and the same capacty with the publishers as well.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we do want to nurture authors within Wales, particularly given that the new curriculum has to do justice to a Welsh dimension within the curriculum in so many different subjects. So, needs of teachers on how to undertake that sort of assessment.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Okay. Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Did you want to come in on any of thisPhilip Blaker: I'm just going to say one thing. Teachers will want to be creative in the use of resources, and, in doing that, they'll potentially want to adapt resources from either language. I think one of the things that we would be quite keen to try and establish moving forward is what is the common core that should by default be available bilingually, and then what sits around that that would be for schools to use creatively and adapt. And what I wouldn't want to see is a default position where all materials were bilingual--a wide range of resources that might be created from all sorts of diverse, different channels--because that may inhibit the creation of some of those materials that may be more creative, which could then be used by teachers as they see appropriate. But I think it is reasonable to expect for that core, common body of knowledge to be available bilingually by default, and for teachers not to have to spend time translating that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. A final question from me, then. The PS500,000 funding for Welsh-medium educational resource that's in the budget for 2018-19--are you able to share any information with the committee as to how that's going to be spentGareth Pierce: Tthe WJEC has some information in terms of that budget. It is a Welsh Government budget, and they have annual discussions with us as to what resources we are likely to be working on along with publishers, and where we would like to make a claim against that grant to pay for the editorial and translation costs that we will have incurred. Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's meeting of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received no apologies for absence. Can I ask Members whether there are any declarations of interest, pleaseDarren Millar AM: Yes, I have a declaration of interest, Chair. I understand that my daughter features in one of the videos that is going to be used to contribute evidence to this inquiry. And, in addition, I'm a governor of one of the schools that features in the video.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you, Darren. So, item 2, then, today is our first session on the provision of textbooks and learning resources for pupils, which is a video of interviews with young people and teachers. The committee team has been out to take video evidence around Wales, and we're now going to watch the results of that on the screen. Okay. Well, I'm sure that the committee would want me to place on record our thanks to the young people and the teachers who took part in that very helpful and informative video. We'll move on now then to our evidence session, and I'm very pleased to welcome Gareth Pierce, chief executive of the WJEC, Mike Ebbsworth, assistant director educational support, WJEC, Philip Blaker, chief executive of Qualifications Wales, and Emyr George, associate director general qualifications at Qualifications Wales. So, thank you all of you for attending and thank you for the papers that you provided in advance as well. If you're happy, we'll go straight into questions now, and if I can just start by asking you to outline what you see as your role in ensuring that students and teachers in Wales have the resources that they need to pass general qualifications and what you think the role of commercial publishers and

According to Philip Blaker, who should be responsible for developing the curriculum resources

Philip Blaker thought it needed to be determined. But he also believed that Welsh Government had a role in curriculum at that moment, so Welsh Government had responsibility for the curriculum and drew people together to look at the new model for the future.

the textbook is being produced. There is a risk there, of course. The nature of books is that the author may change his or her mind, or edit as he or she is writing. Well, with that model, we would have to ensure that we approved as we moved forward, chapter by chapter perhaps, so that there would be no changes to be made from then on. At the end of the process, then, the publishers in England have agreed to hold the English version back for a period of time until the Welsh version is available, and then to publish both simultaneously. Unless that timetable is followed throughout the process, there are inherent risks in that process, of course, as I've mentioned in terms of translation as we author materials, and in ensuring that that timetable is stuck to.Gareth Pierce: And perhaps there is a need to emphasise that the process is translation and editing as a package, and that sometimes the same amount of time goes on the editing, how the Welsh works in terms of diagrams and things that aren't text necessarily--pictures and so forth. So, eight weeks, I think, is the time that we've succeeded in agreeing with the publishers so that we can turn around the Welsh version in that period of time.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Darren.Darren Millar AM: I just want to ask about this eight-week delay. So, you're telling us, Mr Ebbsworth, that the WJEC has agreed with Hodder and Illuminate that, in future, even if an English textbook is available for publication, and it's already late, you will further delay the availability of that textbook so that it can be published on the same day as the Welsh-medium textbookMike Ebbsworth: We can only work on those books that are in Now, there have been conversations recently about possible support from that grant for some research work into the use of various materials and resources, and also, although this would be a very small part, a contribution towards seminars for publishers. But that isn't a full picture of the PS500,000; I think you would have to ask the Welsh Government about the exact allocation of that total fund. But there may be some flexibility. We've just started this financial year; I'm sure there is some flexibility in their thinking in terms of the use of some of this resource. Do you want to add anything, MikeMike Ebbsworth: Certainly. We have contributed a list of publications, for example, that are ongoing, and they're aware of that, and a percentage of that funding then will go towards ensuring that those are there through the medium of Welsh.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Darren Millar.Darren Millar AM: This is a huge mess, isn't it It's a huge mess, which is causing lots of pressure and extra work for teachers, lots of pressure and extra work for learners, and is affecting the well-being of students, at a time when they need to be mentally fit, in order to go through the general stress that learners face when they have exams coming up. We know that the problems are not confined to Welsh-medium resources; they're also being experienced in English language resources as well, particularly in terms of the availability of textbooks. You've both mentioned--both of your organisations have mentioned that there needs to be some sort of common core of resources available for learners and teachers, and I would agree with you on that front. But isn't a textbook a pretty basic element of anybody's toolkit for supporting a child getting through the information that they to plan out not only the whole of the process, but also thinking about where we might have to make key decisions.Gareth Pierce: Just one very brief comment in that context: I think that the comment of the consortia jointly is important there. They emphasise, in the context of the curriculum, the importance of the autonomy of teachers in interpreting and providing, therefore I think we truly need to discuss that. Does that suggest that there won't be so much need for national resources, or are those resources required to support that autonomy in any case We need to discuss that at an early stage and in detail, I think.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Yes, certainly, and one is concerned that that conversation isn't already happening, but, yes, okay, you've made that point clearly. If I could return, therefore, to the commercial issue--clearly, there is a shortage of providers in Wales, and we are reliant on others. You suggested that the WJEC may be interested in stepping up and taking some sort of role if regulations were changed. I assume that that would be something that you would be eager to see happening in terms of the change to regulation in that context.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we've been part of starting that discussion amongst publishers in Wales. Certainly, there is interest. I think that I haven't described correctly the purpose of a seminar to encourage interest: the interest is there, but there needs to be an understanding of what the implications are of working towards that kind of timetable, what the implications are of working in two languages, what kind of business model, perhaps, would be suitable for the publishers in Wales, how much certainty could be given to them that there is a period of work, because they would want to build their teams, and develop skills within those teams, and to have enough certainty that this is worth doing. And therefore, those are the sort of issues that we're starting a discussion on, in the hope of having a discussion in June to move that forward. Of course, Welsh Government, Qualifications Wales and other stakeholders are part of this discussion, not only WJEC, but we've been part of initiating that discussion.Llyr Gruffydd AM: Is this developing at the pace that you would like to see it developingGareth Pierce: Yes, I think, and there is some enthusiasm. For example, a number of publishers in Wales are within an association describing itself as Cwlwm Cyhoeddwyr Cymru. Myrddin ap Dafydd is chair of Cwlwm at the moment, and there is enthusiasm and vision, certainly. So, there's a wonderful opportunity, I think, for Wales to interpret these possibilities swiftly and then hopefully take action on them.Llyr Gruffydd AM: And we're talking here not just about translating but developing resources, and the point, I think, is an important one around some of the evidence that we've received about the importance of developing resources naturally bilingually from the very beginning, rather than having to translate something. Because there have been comments that translations are clunky, difficult to follow and not--I'm not saying that they're not fit for purpose, but certainly don't facilitate teaching, perhaps, as easily as one would wish.Gareth Pierce: Yes, I would agee, and that begins with the authors, doesn't it We must have the authors--Llyr Gruffydd AM: So, the expertise, and the same capacty with the publishers as well.Gareth Pierce: Yes, and we do want to nurture authors within Wales, particularly given that the new curriculum has to do justice to a Welsh dimension within the curriculum in so many different subjects. So, the process of being developed. Naturally, if something is late in English, then that timetable would be affected in terms of a decision that will ultimately have to be taken. But that's the hope: that when new textbooks are produced in English and authored in English, we would look at that eight-week period as a turnaround.Darren Millar AM: I understand the point that you made earlier about the chapter-by-chapter approach, which seems much more equitable. But to suggest that you will delay books that could be available for students and could be available for teachers to be able to access by two months because you haven't got the systems in place to be able to produce them on the same day, seems to be wholly inappropriate. Can I ask, also, why on earth it isn't possible to produce Welsh-medium textbooks first and then translate them to English on occasionsMike Ebbsworth: We're entirely open to that and to that sort of model.Darren Millar AM: So, why has that never ever been doneGareth Pierce: Well, of course, it would happen with subjects that stem from Wales, but I think the problem is that we work with publishers and those publishers and their authors, therefore, tend to work through the medium of English. But, just to be clear, this idea of delaying an English version is something that the Welsh Government is eager for us to experiment with, but not with textbooks that are already late. They are within the new programme of textbooks that are contained within the grant that you mentioned of PS500,000. So, in a way, this is an experiment and the Welsh Government wants to look at this as one way of responding to the complaint that there are different timetables available.Darren Millar AM: So, you're being forced to

Summarize the whole meeting.

The meeting was mainly about the provision of textbooks and learning resources for pupils. To start with, Philip Blaker generally introduced the position of Qualification Wales in the education system, focusing on the design of the qualifications and then the delivery of the assessment. Meanwhile, Gareth Pierce talked about the process of making teaching materials available bilingually, both in English and Welsh language. It was suggested that both versions be carried out simultaneously to ensure equity. Concerns were also raised about whether the procedure would delay the availability of the textbooks. What's more, the meeting also discussed the digitalization of materials. The council worried that the lack of digital accessibility and digital literacy would have an impact on pupils'performance. However, it was concluded that the process would widen the access to different materials. The meeting also talked about the timetable of the curriculum reform and the general plan for the future, mainly on the qualification and teaching materials.

below that so that it could be switched around for uh left or right handed users. So. You then have a grip section that can be more or less the same irrespective of handedness. You just have big {vocalsound} two big buttons that cover most of the area so it can {vocalsound} in the upper part, one for the four finger, one for the middle finger. Um, and that {disfmarker}Marketing: Is this the joystickUser Interface: Th {vocalsound} this part here is the joystick. This would be the actual grip. Probably where you'd want to have the battery as well.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: That would be probably the bulkiest part. And you then have, at the uh at the bottom, the L_C_D_, and this would need to be articulated as well. And basically I'd want this to rest here, right at the base of the wrist. So it would fit just nicely in the hand. And again, this part could be rotated, so it can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} so so that it can be adjusted to either left or right handed user. Um {disfmarker} So the t uh the top function button in basic mode would be the on off switch and menu mode would be the enter button. And then the bottom function buttons switches between between modes. Um now programming it {vocalsound} actually thi this is one thing I've found with um the replacement remote control. Programming them can be a right pain. So I thought th the simplest way around that would be to have um a cable to connect it to the computer some {vocalsound} some fair iv {gap} fairly fairly simple software on the computer just so that you {disfmarker} on your {gap} computer just so that you could um pr {vocalsound} program it at a monkey as default. Um.Marketing: S oh, I was gonna talk about the programmable remote control. Now I think it'd be cool if you had one remote control that could work with all T_V_s, you know you s you click a button and it finds the frequency that works with your particular television.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But why you'd need to program it like as as a standard feature, I I don't know.User Interface: Well basi {vocalsound} basically the um for {vocalsound} f for uh {disfmarker} I mean e each manufacturer will have a partic {vocalsound} will have a particular command set that uh the T_V_ responds to.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: It's not simply a matter of frequency.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So um {vocalsound} usually what's done is you have this big booklet full of different possi {vocalsound} you'll have all of them sort of programmed in to the uh remote, and you'll have this little booklet of codes you then find your um ma uh find your manufacturerMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: and try the different codes thatMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: come under that manufacturer's name'til you find the right one.Marketing: That's because televisions, they don't give the remote control any type of feedback when you send it {gap}.User Interface: Yeah, that's right.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: So that's that's quite annoying and we probably would still have to do that. But if we had um some sort of hook-up to your computer as an option, then if you've got a computer you can avoid that rather irritating thing.Project Manager: An interesting point is that if the person doesn't have the computer, we can still make the process easier because instead of having to look up codes, maybe we can have it that one of the options they have is that they look up the name of next meeting. Um {disfmarker} So for example, um I'll just start at the top, you've got yourself and the Industrial Designer gonna be working quite closely at this stage'cause it'll be hard not to, obviously. Um looking from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} prototyping of some des description using clay. Um I suppose you'll be told a lot more about that as uh {vocalsound} progress. Um {disfmarker} The user interface design, They're kind of {disfmarker} it looks they're {disfmarker} the idea I've pushed forward so far is maybe more of a physical one there, whereas {vocalsound} possibly be more interested in maybe how the L_C_D_'s going to incorporate, do you thinkUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Or do you s perceive that most the design design decisions still need to be based on the physical layoutUser Interface: Um well I I think other than ge getting a sort of more aesthetically pleasing form for it, um mo most of the sort of layout design decisions are {vocalsound} are made, I would say. Um but then again, the um the menu structure to to a considerable extent that's gonna vary according to the model of television, and also any customisations that the user might wish to incorporate. So um and one of the nice things about having an L_C_D_ and a menu structure is that there is that flexibility to it.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, that's very true. {vocalsound} Um. Okay. Um got product evaluation as well. Um.Marketing: Yeah, you see I don't {disfmarker} some of these things kinda logically follow the others. How can {disfmarker} t product evaluation, doesn't that come after actually seen a product prototype.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I I think we'd be {disfmarker} yeah, no, it'd be more a case of how do we envisage us performing the product evaluation once we have a model so what I ra rather than looking at other remotes, uh ra oomp be better to simply look at the human hand. Um and try and f um and try and figure out a way of laying out the elements we've already decided on, um so that if r a if {vocalsound} so that the finger is e each finger or thumb is wherever it needs to be already. Um so uh next slide, if you please. Um and what we've basically decided on was the the um the joy uh the joystick, two function buttons and the L_C_D_, just keep it paired down to the absolute minimum. I don't actually think we need the um the numeric keypad because if you m because one of the menus that we could have available um {vocalsound} v via via the L_C_D_ is one where you scroll through channels, so if there's something f {vocalsound} and be bear in mind since this isn't meant to work for umMarketing: {gap} digital.User Interface: f f f {vocalsound} for di for digital or um or for {vocalsound} or for cable, whatever,Industrial Designer: Ah, okay.User Interface: you're basically looking at four or five terrestrial channels, and then um your V_C_ uh and then the channel through your V_C_R_ and or D_V_D_ player. And or um {gap} box. So it's not {vocalsound} I'm not really excessively concerned about that. You must have two two modes, basic mode, where um the joystick's uh left right {vocalsound} left right for channels, up down for volume, um and the uh uh and the menu mode for uh further functions. Um now the reason I was particularly interested in using rubber for this is that if we're going to have a highly ergonomic design, um it needs to be ergonomic for left or right handed people. Um, so youProject Manager: Can I just jump in slightly thereUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That would suggest the double curved design's probably going to be most appropriate, then.User Interface: Yes, absolutely.Project Manager: {gap} okay.User Interface: Um, basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the {vocalsound} what {gap} be having um, I would say, the the whole thing articulated at two points, so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_ {vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place. And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um you know the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to itProject Manager: Mm.User Interface: that it should be, you know, soft to touch and can be moved around all nice. Um okayProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide.Project Manager: Um, yeah. Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say, I guess.User Interface: Yeah,'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this. The um {disfmarker} Assuming the hand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position, um {gap} hol uh holding the remote, the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessible for the thumb. Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just

What did the group discuss about user requirements of the new remote control

Marketing pointed out that customers generally expected the new remote control to be fancy and technologically innovative. The trendiest shape might be fruit and vegetable. Users hoped that the remote control could be spongy. Marketing suggested that the team could decide on a shape of fruit and rubber material.

monkey as default. Um.Marketing: S oh, I was gonna talk about the programmable remote control. Now I think it'd be cool if you had one remote control that could work with all T_V_s, you know you s you click a button and it finds the frequency that works with your particular television.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But why you'd need to program it like as as a standard feature, I I don't know.User Interface: Well basi {vocalsound} basically the um for {vocalsound} f for uh {disfmarker} I mean e each manufacturer will have a partic {vocalsound} will have a particular command set that uh the T_V_ responds to.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: It's not simply a matter of frequency.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So um {vocalsound} usually what's done is you have this big booklet full of different possi {vocalsound} you'll have all of them sort of programmed in to the uh remote, and you'll have this little booklet of codes you then find your um ma uh find your manufacturerMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: and try the different codes thatMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: come under that manufacturer's name'til you find the right one.Marketing: That's because televisions, they don't give the remote control any type of feedback when you send it {gap}.User Interface: Yeah, that's right.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: So that's that's quite annoying and we probably would still have to do that. But if we had um some sort of hook-up to your computer as an option, then if you've got a computer you can avoid that rather irritating thing.Project Manager: An interesting point is that if the person doesn't have the computer, we can still make the process easier because instead of having to look up codes, maybe we can have it that one of the options they have is that they look up the name of below that so that it could be switched around for uh left or right handed users. So. You then have a grip section that can be more or less the same irrespective of handedness. You just have big {vocalsound} two big buttons that cover most of the area so it can {vocalsound} in the upper part, one for the four finger, one for the middle finger. Um, and that {disfmarker}Marketing: Is this the joystickUser Interface: Th {vocalsound} this part here is the joystick. This would be the actual grip. Probably where you'd want to have the battery as well.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: That would be probably the bulkiest part. And you then have, at the uh at the bottom, the L_C_D_, and this would need to be articulated as well. And basically I'd want this to rest here, right at the base of the wrist. So it would fit just nicely in the hand. And again, this part could be rotated, so it can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} so so that it can be adjusted to either left or right handed user. Um {disfmarker} So the t uh the top function button in basic mode would be the on off switch and menu mode would be the enter button. And then the bottom function buttons switches between between modes. Um now programming it {vocalsound} actually thi this is one thing I've found with um the replacement remote control. Programming them can be a right pain. So I thought th the simplest way around that would be to have um a cable to connect it to the computer some {vocalsound} some fair iv {gap} fairly fairly simple software on the computer just so that you {disfmarker} on your {gap} computer just so that you could um pr {vocalsound} program it at a so what I ra rather than looking at other remotes, uh ra oomp be better to simply look at the human hand. Um and try and f um and try and figure out a way of laying out the elements we've already decided on, um so that if r a if {vocalsound} so that the finger is e each finger or thumb is wherever it needs to be already. Um so uh next slide, if you please. Um and what we've basically decided on was the the um the joy uh the joystick, two function buttons and the L_C_D_, just keep it paired down to the absolute minimum. I don't actually think we need the um the numeric keypad because if you m because one of the menus that we could have available um {vocalsound} v via via the L_C_D_ is one where you scroll through channels, so if there's something f {vocalsound} and be bear in mind since this isn't meant to work for umMarketing: {gap} digital.User Interface: f f f {vocalsound} for di for digital or um or for {vocalsound} or for cable, whatever,Industrial Designer: Ah, okay.User Interface: you're basically looking at four or five terrestrial channels, and then um your V_C_ uh and then the channel through your V_C_R_ and or D_V_D_ player. And or um {gap} box. So it's not {vocalsound} I'm not really excessively concerned about that. You must have two two modes, basic mode, where um the joystick's uh left right {vocalsound} left right for channels, up down for volume, um and the uh uh and the menu mode for uh further functions. Um now the reason I was particularly interested in using rubber for this is that if we're going to have a highly ergonomic design, um it needs to be ergonomic for to test with.Marketing: Oh, that's the {disfmarker} okay, sure sure sure.Project Manager: Um so it'd be a case of do you think that just bringing users in to have them test it out, uh maybe putting a certain number of products into the field in certain places which I suppose is quite similar.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Or just kind of hitting the streets and you know saying this is a new remote control, what do you think of the look of it Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay, sure. At this stage we still have no no target audience or {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think the target audience is pretty much anybody under the age of say maybe sixty or something ludicrous.Marketing:'Kay.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} the reason I'm saying that is we're just looking at a a replacement remote control, something that's stylish, so maybe you're even just maybe you're narrowing down your target audience simply by sayingMarketing: And it's stylish.Project Manager: if they're buying it that often or they're maybe looking to replace something then, they've got a bit of free cash, so that puts them potentially in the younger age bracket.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Maybe even single, just for the reasons of um uh excess cash flow.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Although of course I mean at twenty five Euros, I don't think we're looking at charging the earth for the uh device.Marketing: Yep. Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Think that's well within the normal bracket. Um your idea of the U_S_B_ would I think would largely depend on the cost. U_S_B_'s definitely one of the cheapest interfaces out there, but it might push the cost of the overall unit up'cause it would require not just the connection but the chip for communicating with the rest of the system. That one might have to be based on left or right handed people. Um, so youProject Manager: Can I just jump in slightly thereUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That would suggest the double curved design's probably going to be most appropriate, then.User Interface: Yes, absolutely.Project Manager: {gap} okay.User Interface: Um, basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the {vocalsound} what {gap} be having um, I would say, the the whole thing articulated at two points, so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_ {vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place. And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um you know the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to itProject Manager: Mm.User Interface: that it should be, you know, soft to touch and can be moved around all nice. Um okayProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide.Project Manager: Um, yeah. Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say, I guess.User Interface: Yeah,'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this. The um {disfmarker} Assuming the hand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position, um {gap} hol uh holding the remote, the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessible for the thumb. Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just

What did Marketing think of rubber material when discussing user requirements of the new remote control

During Industrial Designer's presentation, the team was asked to choose from rubber, plastic and titanium. Marketing showed a preference for rubber. The reasons were explained when user requirements of the new remote control were presented. Marketing pointed out that customers expected the remote control to be spongy. To bring a spongy feel, rubber was the best choice. Besides, rubber was damage-resistant, and its price was more reasonable than titanium.

monkey as default. Um.Marketing: S oh, I was gonna talk about the programmable remote control. Now I think it'd be cool if you had one remote control that could work with all T_V_s, you know you s you click a button and it finds the frequency that works with your particular television.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But why you'd need to program it like as as a standard feature, I I don't know.User Interface: Well basi {vocalsound} basically the um for {vocalsound} f for uh {disfmarker} I mean e each manufacturer will have a partic {vocalsound} will have a particular command set that uh the T_V_ responds to.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: It's not simply a matter of frequency.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So um {vocalsound} usually what's done is you have this big booklet full of different possi {vocalsound} you'll have all of them sort of programmed in to the uh remote, and you'll have this little booklet of codes you then find your um ma uh find your manufacturerMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: and try the different codes thatMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: come under that manufacturer's name'til you find the right one.Marketing: That's because televisions, they don't give the remote control any type of feedback when you send it {gap}.User Interface: Yeah, that's right.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: So that's that's quite annoying and we probably would still have to do that. But if we had um some sort of hook-up to your computer as an option, then if you've got a computer you can avoid that rather irritating thing.Project Manager: An interesting point is that if the person doesn't have the computer, we can still make the process easier because instead of having to look up codes, maybe we can have it that one of the options they have is that they look up the name of next meeting. Um {disfmarker} So for example, um I'll just start at the top, you've got yourself and the Industrial Designer gonna be working quite closely at this stage'cause it'll be hard not to, obviously. Um looking from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} prototyping of some des description using clay. Um I suppose you'll be told a lot more about that as uh {vocalsound} progress. Um {disfmarker} The user interface design, They're kind of {disfmarker} it looks they're {disfmarker} the idea I've pushed forward so far is maybe more of a physical one there, whereas {vocalsound} possibly be more interested in maybe how the L_C_D_'s going to incorporate, do you thinkUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Or do you s perceive that most the design design decisions still need to be based on the physical layoutUser Interface: Um well I I think other than ge getting a sort of more aesthetically pleasing form for it, um mo most of the sort of layout design decisions are {vocalsound} are made, I would say. Um but then again, the um the menu structure to to a considerable extent that's gonna vary according to the model of television, and also any customisations that the user might wish to incorporate. So um and one of the nice things about having an L_C_D_ and a menu structure is that there is that flexibility to it.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, that's very true. {vocalsound} Um. Okay. Um got product evaluation as well. Um.Marketing: Yeah, you see I don't {disfmarker} some of these things kinda logically follow the others. How can {disfmarker} t product evaluation, doesn't that come after actually seen a product prototype.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I I think we'd be {disfmarker} yeah, no, it'd be more a case of how do we envisage us performing the product evaluation once we have a model so what I ra rather than looking at other remotes, uh ra oomp be better to simply look at the human hand. Um and try and f um and try and figure out a way of laying out the elements we've already decided on, um so that if r a if {vocalsound} so that the finger is e each finger or thumb is wherever it needs to be already. Um so uh next slide, if you please. Um and what we've basically decided on was the the um the joy uh the joystick, two function buttons and the L_C_D_, just keep it paired down to the absolute minimum. I don't actually think we need the um the numeric keypad because if you m because one of the menus that we could have available um {vocalsound} v via via the L_C_D_ is one where you scroll through channels, so if there's something f {vocalsound} and be bear in mind since this isn't meant to work for umMarketing: {gap} digital.User Interface: f f f {vocalsound} for di for digital or um or for {vocalsound} or for cable, whatever,Industrial Designer: Ah, okay.User Interface: you're basically looking at four or five terrestrial channels, and then um your V_C_ uh and then the channel through your V_C_R_ and or D_V_D_ player. And or um {gap} box. So it's not {vocalsound} I'm not really excessively concerned about that. You must have two two modes, basic mode, where um the joystick's uh left right {vocalsound} left right for channels, up down for volume, um and the uh uh and the menu mode for uh further functions. Um now the reason I was particularly interested in using rubber for this is that if we're going to have a highly ergonomic design, um it needs to be ergonomic for left or right handed people. Um, so youProject Manager: Can I just jump in slightly thereUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That would suggest the double curved design's probably going to be most appropriate, then.User Interface: Yes, absolutely.Project Manager: {gap} okay.User Interface: Um, basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the {vocalsound} what {gap} be having um, I would say, the the whole thing articulated at two points, so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_ {vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place. And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um you know the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to itProject Manager: Mm.User Interface: that it should be, you know, soft to touch and can be moved around all nice. Um okayProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide.Project Manager: Um, yeah. Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say, I guess.User Interface: Yeah,'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this. The um {disfmarker} Assuming the hand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position, um {gap} hol uh holding the remote, the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessible for the thumb. Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just to test with.Marketing: Oh, that's the {disfmarker} okay, sure sure sure.Project Manager: Um so it'd be a case of do you think that just bringing users in to have them test it out, uh maybe putting a certain number of products into the field in certain places which I suppose is quite similar.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Or just kind of hitting the streets and you know saying this is a new remote control, what do you think of the look of it Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay, sure. At this stage we still have no no target audience or {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think the target audience is pretty much anybody under the age of say maybe sixty or something ludicrous.Marketing:'Kay.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} the reason I'm saying that is we're just looking at a a replacement remote control, something that's stylish, so maybe you're even just maybe you're narrowing down your target audience simply by sayingMarketing: And it's stylish.Project Manager: if they're buying it that often or they're maybe looking to replace something then, they've got a bit of free cash, so that puts them potentially in the younger age bracket.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Maybe even single, just for the reasons of um uh excess cash flow.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Although of course I mean at twenty five Euros, I don't think we're looking at charging the earth for the uh device.Marketing: Yep. Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Think that's well within the normal bracket. Um your idea of the U_S_B_ would I think would largely depend on the cost. U_S_B_'s definitely one of the cheapest interfaces out there, but it might push the cost of the overall unit up'cause it would require not just the connection but the chip for communicating with the rest of the system. That one might have to be based on

What did the group discuss about details on the new remote control style and the plan for the next meeting

The team made some decisions on the remote control design for the present stage. The keypad was given up, for a menu display could better classify channels into subgroups. Standard components such as the conventional battery were the final choices for the remote control. The team would adopt a double-curved design and rubber material. A corporate logo would be incorporated. There would be a special beeping sound for the location function. The new remote control could be programmed on the LCD screen as well as using software on the computer. In the next meeting, Industrial Designer and User Interface would present a prototype of the remote control. The team would also make a product evaluation.

monkey as default. Um.Marketing: S oh, I was gonna talk about the programmable remote control. Now I think it'd be cool if you had one remote control that could work with all T_V_s, you know you s you click a button and it finds the frequency that works with your particular television.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But why you'd need to program it like as as a standard feature, I I don't know.User Interface: Well basi {vocalsound} basically the um for {vocalsound} f for uh {disfmarker} I mean e each manufacturer will have a partic {vocalsound} will have a particular command set that uh the T_V_ responds to.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: It's not simply a matter of frequency.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So um {vocalsound} usually what's done is you have this big booklet full of different possi {vocalsound} you'll have all of them sort of programmed in to the uh remote, and you'll have this little booklet of codes you then find your um ma uh find your manufacturerMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: and try the different codes thatMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: come under that manufacturer's name'til you find the right one.Marketing: That's because televisions, they don't give the remote control any type of feedback when you send it {gap}.User Interface: Yeah, that's right.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: So that's that's quite annoying and we probably would still have to do that. But if we had um some sort of hook-up to your computer as an option, then if you've got a computer you can avoid that rather irritating thing.Project Manager: An interesting point is that if the person doesn't have the computer, we can still make the process easier because instead of having to look up codes, maybe we can have it that one of the options they have is that they look up the name of to test with.Marketing: Oh, that's the {disfmarker} okay, sure sure sure.Project Manager: Um so it'd be a case of do you think that just bringing users in to have them test it out, uh maybe putting a certain number of products into the field in certain places which I suppose is quite similar.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Or just kind of hitting the streets and you know saying this is a new remote control, what do you think of the look of it Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay, sure. At this stage we still have no no target audience or {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think the target audience is pretty much anybody under the age of say maybe sixty or something ludicrous.Marketing:'Kay.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} the reason I'm saying that is we're just looking at a a replacement remote control, something that's stylish, so maybe you're even just maybe you're narrowing down your target audience simply by sayingMarketing: And it's stylish.Project Manager: if they're buying it that often or they're maybe looking to replace something then, they've got a bit of free cash, so that puts them potentially in the younger age bracket.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Maybe even single, just for the reasons of um uh excess cash flow.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Although of course I mean at twenty five Euros, I don't think we're looking at charging the earth for the uh device.Marketing: Yep. Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Think that's well within the normal bracket. Um your idea of the U_S_B_ would I think would largely depend on the cost. U_S_B_'s definitely one of the cheapest interfaces out there, but it might push the cost of the overall unit up'cause it would require not just the connection but the chip for communicating with the rest of the system. That one might have to be based on six advance.Project Manager: {gap} if you press a button that sends a certain transmission through the infra-red, whereas I think if we're controlling the L_C_D_ we definitely require a much more powerful chip. Just compared to the chip you would use for pushing buttons I think is the the point being made.Marketing: Okay. Okay, sure.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: If I've not over-stepped. YeahIndustrial Designer: Yeah iProject Manager: Okay, um should I go on, or go backIndustrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm, if we only have twelve Pounds fifty, twelve Euros, not even twelve Pounds. Twelve Euros, what's that, like eight pounds or something like that, nine PoundsProject Manager: Well we'd also be relying on the um the bulk buying in producement and such. I assume.Marketing: Okay, that's good point.Project Manager: We have to look into the costs of those. So, sorry.Industrial Designer: Uh the previous slides just explain what's in the internal components of the uh remote control. If you go to the one before that uh so it just says what it does, translate the key press into an infra-red signal and this is received by the T_V_. Uh the chip just needs to detect the signal or detect the key press and then uh it'll send it to the tr the amplifier.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: And uh then the next slide just shows how the uh copper wires uh interact with the buttons, the rubber buttons, uh to uh get sent to the chip. So that's just how the control works inside. Um we have to decide on what buttons we're gonna use.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um. {gap}. So in the information that you've been supplied, how feasible would you say that the idea of using an L_C_D_ looksIndustrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} I think we can next meeting. Um {disfmarker} So for example, um I'll just start at the top, you've got yourself and the Industrial Designer gonna be working quite closely at this stage'cause it'll be hard not to, obviously. Um looking from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} prototyping of some des description using clay. Um I suppose you'll be told a lot more about that as uh {vocalsound} progress. Um {disfmarker} The user interface design, They're kind of {disfmarker} it looks they're {disfmarker} the idea I've pushed forward so far is maybe more of a physical one there, whereas {vocalsound} possibly be more interested in maybe how the L_C_D_'s going to incorporate, do you thinkUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Or do you s perceive that most the design design decisions still need to be based on the physical layoutUser Interface: Um well I I think other than ge getting a sort of more aesthetically pleasing form for it, um mo most of the sort of layout design decisions are {vocalsound} are made, I would say. Um but then again, the um the menu structure to to a considerable extent that's gonna vary according to the model of television, and also any customisations that the user might wish to incorporate. So um and one of the nice things about having an L_C_D_ and a menu structure is that there is that flexibility to it.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, that's very true. {vocalsound} Um. Okay. Um got product evaluation as well. Um.Marketing: Yeah, you see I don't {disfmarker} some of these things kinda logically follow the others. How can {disfmarker} t product evaluation, doesn't that come after actually seen a product prototype.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I I think we'd be {disfmarker} yeah, no, it'd be more a case of how do we envisage us performing the product evaluation once we have a model left or right handed people. Um, so youProject Manager: Can I just jump in slightly thereUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That would suggest the double curved design's probably going to be most appropriate, then.User Interface: Yes, absolutely.Project Manager: {gap} okay.User Interface: Um, basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the {vocalsound} what {gap} be having um, I would say, the the whole thing articulated at two points, so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_ {vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place. And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um you know the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to itProject Manager: Mm.User Interface: that it should be, you know, soft to touch and can be moved around all nice. Um okayProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide.Project Manager: Um, yeah. Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say, I guess.User Interface: Yeah,'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this. The um {disfmarker} Assuming the hand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position, um {gap} hol uh holding the remote, the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessible for the thumb. Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just

What did User Interface think of the incorporation of a keypad when discussing details on the new remote control style and a plan for the next meeting

User Interface pointed out that the keypad might irritate users, for it was hard for them to remember the exact number of every channel. Instead, User Interface recommended the LCD screen menu display. With the menu structure, channels could be better classified into subgroups. Users could name these subgroups as" news" ," music" and so on.

monkey as default. Um.Marketing: S oh, I was gonna talk about the programmable remote control. Now I think it'd be cool if you had one remote control that could work with all T_V_s, you know you s you click a button and it finds the frequency that works with your particular television.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But why you'd need to program it like as as a standard feature, I I don't know.User Interface: Well basi {vocalsound} basically the um for {vocalsound} f for uh {disfmarker} I mean e each manufacturer will have a partic {vocalsound} will have a particular command set that uh the T_V_ responds to.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: It's not simply a matter of frequency.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So um {vocalsound} usually what's done is you have this big booklet full of different possi {vocalsound} you'll have all of them sort of programmed in to the uh remote, and you'll have this little booklet of codes you then find your um ma uh find your manufacturerMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: and try the different codes thatMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: come under that manufacturer's name'til you find the right one.Marketing: That's because televisions, they don't give the remote control any type of feedback when you send it {gap}.User Interface: Yeah, that's right.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: So that's that's quite annoying and we probably would still have to do that. But if we had um some sort of hook-up to your computer as an option, then if you've got a computer you can avoid that rather irritating thing.Project Manager: An interesting point is that if the person doesn't have the computer, we can still make the process easier because instead of having to look up codes, maybe we can have it that one of the options they have is that they look up the name of six advance.Project Manager: {gap} if you press a button that sends a certain transmission through the infra-red, whereas I think if we're controlling the L_C_D_ we definitely require a much more powerful chip. Just compared to the chip you would use for pushing buttons I think is the the point being made.Marketing: Okay. Okay, sure.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: If I've not over-stepped. YeahIndustrial Designer: Yeah iProject Manager: Okay, um should I go on, or go backIndustrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm, if we only have twelve Pounds fifty, twelve Euros, not even twelve Pounds. Twelve Euros, what's that, like eight pounds or something like that, nine PoundsProject Manager: Well we'd also be relying on the um the bulk buying in producement and such. I assume.Marketing: Okay, that's good point.Project Manager: We have to look into the costs of those. So, sorry.Industrial Designer: Uh the previous slides just explain what's in the internal components of the uh remote control. If you go to the one before that uh so it just says what it does, translate the key press into an infra-red signal and this is received by the T_V_. Uh the chip just needs to detect the signal or detect the key press and then uh it'll send it to the tr the amplifier.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: And uh then the next slide just shows how the uh copper wires uh interact with the buttons, the rubber buttons, uh to uh get sent to the chip. So that's just how the control works inside. Um we have to decide on what buttons we're gonna use.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um. {gap}. So in the information that you've been supplied, how feasible would you say that the idea of using an L_C_D_ looksIndustrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} I think we can left or right handed people. Um, so youProject Manager: Can I just jump in slightly thereUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That would suggest the double curved design's probably going to be most appropriate, then.User Interface: Yes, absolutely.Project Manager: {gap} okay.User Interface: Um, basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the {vocalsound} what {gap} be having um, I would say, the the whole thing articulated at two points, so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_ {vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place. And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um you know the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to itProject Manager: Mm.User Interface: that it should be, you know, soft to touch and can be moved around all nice. Um okayProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide.Project Manager: Um, yeah. Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say, I guess.User Interface: Yeah,'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this. The um {disfmarker} Assuming the hand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position, um {gap} hol uh holding the remote, the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessible for the thumb. Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just to test with.Marketing: Oh, that's the {disfmarker} okay, sure sure sure.Project Manager: Um so it'd be a case of do you think that just bringing users in to have them test it out, uh maybe putting a certain number of products into the field in certain places which I suppose is quite similar.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Or just kind of hitting the streets and you know saying this is a new remote control, what do you think of the look of it Um {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay, sure. At this stage we still have no no target audience or {disfmarker}Project Manager: I think the target audience is pretty much anybody under the age of say maybe sixty or something ludicrous.Marketing:'Kay.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} the reason I'm saying that is we're just looking at a a replacement remote control, something that's stylish, so maybe you're even just maybe you're narrowing down your target audience simply by sayingMarketing: And it's stylish.Project Manager: if they're buying it that often or they're maybe looking to replace something then, they've got a bit of free cash, so that puts them potentially in the younger age bracket.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Maybe even single, just for the reasons of um uh excess cash flow.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Although of course I mean at twenty five Euros, I don't think we're looking at charging the earth for the uh device.Marketing: Yep. Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Think that's well within the normal bracket. Um your idea of the U_S_B_ would I think would largely depend on the cost. U_S_B_'s definitely one of the cheapest interfaces out there, but it might push the cost of the overall unit up'cause it would require not just the connection but the chip for communicating with the rest of the system. That one might have to be based on next meeting. Um {disfmarker} So for example, um I'll just start at the top, you've got yourself and the Industrial Designer gonna be working quite closely at this stage'cause it'll be hard not to, obviously. Um looking from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} prototyping of some des description using clay. Um I suppose you'll be told a lot more about that as uh {vocalsound} progress. Um {disfmarker} The user interface design, They're kind of {disfmarker} it looks they're {disfmarker} the idea I've pushed forward so far is maybe more of a physical one there, whereas {vocalsound} possibly be more interested in maybe how the L_C_D_'s going to incorporate, do you thinkUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Or do you s perceive that most the design design decisions still need to be based on the physical layoutUser Interface: Um well I I think other than ge getting a sort of more aesthetically pleasing form for it, um mo most of the sort of layout design decisions are {vocalsound} are made, I would say. Um but then again, the um the menu structure to to a considerable extent that's gonna vary according to the model of television, and also any customisations that the user might wish to incorporate. So um and one of the nice things about having an L_C_D_ and a menu structure is that there is that flexibility to it.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, that's very true. {vocalsound} Um. Okay. Um got product evaluation as well. Um.Marketing: Yeah, you see I don't {disfmarker} some of these things kinda logically follow the others. How can {disfmarker} t product evaluation, doesn't that come after actually seen a product prototype.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I I think we'd be {disfmarker} yeah, no, it'd be more a case of how do we envisage us performing the product evaluation once we have a model

Summarize Project Manager's opinions towards the idea of a programmable remote control when discussing details on the new remote control style and the plan for the next meeting.

Marketing did not understand the purpose of a programmable remote control. Project Manager agreed with User Interface on that if users used the remote control for different devices, they would need to program particular commands into codes on the remote control. Project Manager added that users could even make the remote control perform a specific function by looking up the function name produced by themselves, instead of looking for the command code on the computer.

monkey as default. Um.Marketing: S oh, I was gonna talk about the programmable remote control. Now I think it'd be cool if you had one remote control that could work with all T_V_s, you know you s you click a button and it finds the frequency that works with your particular television.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But why you'd need to program it like as as a standard feature, I I don't know.User Interface: Well basi {vocalsound} basically the um for {vocalsound} f for uh {disfmarker} I mean e each manufacturer will have a partic {vocalsound} will have a particular command set that uh the T_V_ responds to.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: It's not simply a matter of frequency.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So um {vocalsound} usually what's done is you have this big booklet full of different possi {vocalsound} you'll have all of them sort of programmed in to the uh remote, and you'll have this little booklet of codes you then find your um ma uh find your manufacturerMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: and try the different codes thatMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: come under that manufacturer's name'til you find the right one.Marketing: That's because televisions, they don't give the remote control any type of feedback when you send it {gap}.User Interface: Yeah, that's right.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: So that's that's quite annoying and we probably would still have to do that. But if we had um some sort of hook-up to your computer as an option, then if you've got a computer you can avoid that rather irritating thing.Project Manager: An interesting point is that if the person doesn't have the computer, we can still make the process easier because instead of having to look up codes, maybe we can have it that one of the options they have is that they look up the name of next meeting. Um {disfmarker} So for example, um I'll just start at the top, you've got yourself and the Industrial Designer gonna be working quite closely at this stage'cause it'll be hard not to, obviously. Um looking from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} prototyping of some des description using clay. Um I suppose you'll be told a lot more about that as uh {vocalsound} progress. Um {disfmarker} The user interface design, They're kind of {disfmarker} it looks they're {disfmarker} the idea I've pushed forward so far is maybe more of a physical one there, whereas {vocalsound} possibly be more interested in maybe how the L_C_D_'s going to incorporate, do you thinkUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Or do you s perceive that most the design design decisions still need to be based on the physical layoutUser Interface: Um well I I think other than ge getting a sort of more aesthetically pleasing form for it, um mo most of the sort of layout design decisions are {vocalsound} are made, I would say. Um but then again, the um the menu structure to to a considerable extent that's gonna vary according to the model of television, and also any customisations that the user might wish to incorporate. So um and one of the nice things about having an L_C_D_ and a menu structure is that there is that flexibility to it.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, that's very true. {vocalsound} Um. Okay. Um got product evaluation as well. Um.Marketing: Yeah, you see I don't {disfmarker} some of these things kinda logically follow the others. How can {disfmarker} t product evaluation, doesn't that come after actually seen a product prototype.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I I think we'd be {disfmarker} yeah, no, it'd be more a case of how do we envisage us performing the product evaluation once we have a model six advance.Project Manager: {gap} if you press a button that sends a certain transmission through the infra-red, whereas I think if we're controlling the L_C_D_ we definitely require a much more powerful chip. Just compared to the chip you would use for pushing buttons I think is the the point being made.Marketing: Okay. Okay, sure.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: If I've not over-stepped. YeahIndustrial Designer: Yeah iProject Manager: Okay, um should I go on, or go backIndustrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm, if we only have twelve Pounds fifty, twelve Euros, not even twelve Pounds. Twelve Euros, what's that, like eight pounds or something like that, nine PoundsProject Manager: Well we'd also be relying on the um the bulk buying in producement and such. I assume.Marketing: Okay, that's good point.Project Manager: We have to look into the costs of those. So, sorry.Industrial Designer: Uh the previous slides just explain what's in the internal components of the uh remote control. If you go to the one before that uh so it just says what it does, translate the key press into an infra-red signal and this is received by the T_V_. Uh the chip just needs to detect the signal or detect the key press and then uh it'll send it to the tr the amplifier.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: And uh then the next slide just shows how the uh copper wires uh interact with the buttons, the rubber buttons, uh to uh get sent to the chip. So that's just how the control works inside. Um we have to decide on what buttons we're gonna use.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: Um. {gap}. So in the information that you've been supplied, how feasible would you say that the idea of using an L_C_D_ looksIndustrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} I think we can that's what they mean by uh double curve.Project Manager: Alright.Industrial Designer: Um which obviously {disfmarker} it looks better than the single curve, but uh you can't have it in titanium, which is uh a nice material. {vocalsound} UhProject Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: and for the buttons, um it can have the scroll wheel which they use in mouses for com P_C_s. Uh but um it requires a more expensive chip to use, and if you wanna use L_C_D_ it's even more expensive. So you have to decide, there's trade-offs there. Um {vocalsound} if you want the buttons to be {disfmarker} oh yeah, if you have a double curve uh control and it's rubber, then you have these rubber buttons as well. But {vocalsound} you're gonna ha I reckon you're gonna have to have uh key a number keypad anyway for the amount of channels these days. You wouldn't want to just have to scroll through all the channels to get to the one you want. You wanna enter just the number of it, if you know it. So um I reckon we're gonna have to have a number keypad anyway. Do you thinkProject Manager: Okay, that was definitely something we can talk about. Um so you've got a little bit about the the chip that we might require as wellIndustrial Designer: Yeah. So, depends where gonna spend the money if you want the f fancy L_C_D_ display.Project Manager: Um, do you have any idea so far, like when we're saying that we'd need an advanced chip for an L_C_D_, does that in shoot the cost up by a drastic amount OrMarketing: Need an advanced chip for the L_C_D_. Is that {disfmarker} did I {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well I think compared to say just pressing {gap} buttons.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Advanced, like three eight left or right handed people. Um, so youProject Manager: Can I just jump in slightly thereUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That would suggest the double curved design's probably going to be most appropriate, then.User Interface: Yes, absolutely.Project Manager: {gap} okay.User Interface: Um, basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the {vocalsound} what {gap} be having um, I would say, the the whole thing articulated at two points, so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_ {vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place. And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um you know the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to itProject Manager: Mm.User Interface: that it should be, you know, soft to touch and can be moved around all nice. Um okayProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide.Project Manager: Um, yeah. Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say, I guess.User Interface: Yeah,'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this. The um {disfmarker} Assuming the hand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position, um {gap} hol uh holding the remote, the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessible for the thumb. Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just

What did Project Manager think of the target market group when discussing details on the new remote control style and the plan for the next meeting

Project Manager mentioned the target market group because the team would make a product evaluation on the next meeting. Project Manager implied that the team should consider a younger age bracket, for they were most likely to be the group that owned enough free cash, and was, at the same time, prone to replace their remote controls.

monkey as default. Um.Marketing: S oh, I was gonna talk about the programmable remote control. Now I think it'd be cool if you had one remote control that could work with all T_V_s, you know you s you click a button and it finds the frequency that works with your particular television.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But why you'd need to program it like as as a standard feature, I I don't know.User Interface: Well basi {vocalsound} basically the um for {vocalsound} f for uh {disfmarker} I mean e each manufacturer will have a partic {vocalsound} will have a particular command set that uh the T_V_ responds to.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: It's not simply a matter of frequency.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So um {vocalsound} usually what's done is you have this big booklet full of different possi {vocalsound} you'll have all of them sort of programmed in to the uh remote, and you'll have this little booklet of codes you then find your um ma uh find your manufacturerMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: and try the different codes thatMarketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: come under that manufacturer's name'til you find the right one.Marketing: That's because televisions, they don't give the remote control any type of feedback when you send it {gap}.User Interface: Yeah, that's right.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: So that's that's quite annoying and we probably would still have to do that. But if we had um some sort of hook-up to your computer as an option, then if you've got a computer you can avoid that rather irritating thing.Project Manager: An interesting point is that if the person doesn't have the computer, we can still make the process easier because instead of having to look up codes, maybe we can have it that one of the options they have is that they look up the name of next meeting. Um {disfmarker} So for example, um I'll just start at the top, you've got yourself and the Industrial Designer gonna be working quite closely at this stage'cause it'll be hard not to, obviously. Um looking from {vocalsound} {disfmarker} prototyping of some des description using clay. Um I suppose you'll be told a lot more about that as uh {vocalsound} progress. Um {disfmarker} The user interface design, They're kind of {disfmarker} it looks they're {disfmarker} the idea I've pushed forward so far is maybe more of a physical one there, whereas {vocalsound} possibly be more interested in maybe how the L_C_D_'s going to incorporate, do you thinkUser Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Or do you s perceive that most the design design decisions still need to be based on the physical layoutUser Interface: Um well I I think other than ge getting a sort of more aesthetically pleasing form for it, um mo most of the sort of layout design decisions are {vocalsound} are made, I would say. Um but then again, the um the menu structure to to a considerable extent that's gonna vary according to the model of television, and also any customisations that the user might wish to incorporate. So um and one of the nice things about having an L_C_D_ and a menu structure is that there is that flexibility to it.Project Manager: Mm-hmm, that's very true. {vocalsound} Um. Okay. Um got product evaluation as well. Um.Marketing: Yeah, you see I don't {disfmarker} some of these things kinda logically follow the others. How can {disfmarker} t product evaluation, doesn't that come after actually seen a product prototype.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I I think we'd be {disfmarker} yeah, no, it'd be more a case of how do we envisage us performing the product evaluation once we have a model left or right handed people. Um, so youProject Manager: Can I just jump in slightly thereUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That would suggest the double curved design's probably going to be most appropriate, then.User Interface: Yes, absolutely.Project Manager: {gap} okay.User Interface: Um, basi {vocalsound} basically what I {vocalsound} basically what the {vocalsound} what {gap} be having um, I would say, the the whole thing articulated at two points, so that if you if you're handing it from a lef uh left or right handed user you can adjust it so that the um the L_C_ {vocalsound} the L_C_D_ and the uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} The joystick would be in the right place. And {vocalsound} also this is {gap} a rather nicer de uh design gimmick that the {vocalsound} the um you know the whole thing you know {vocalsound} it should have sort of organic feel to itProject Manager: Mm.User Interface: that it should be, you know, soft to touch and can be moved around all nice. Um okayProject Manager: Okay.User Interface: on to {vocalsound} on to the next uh to the next slide.Project Manager: Um, yeah. Just to let you know we'll probably be quite tight for time as well,User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: because I think you've probably got a lot you'd like to say, I guess.User Interface: Yeah,'kay basically um {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I can add pretty pictures to this. The um {disfmarker} Assuming the hand {vocalsound} the hand to be in about sort of this position, um {gap} hol uh holding the remote, the um the joystick unit should rest over the uh the joint of the f of the uh four finger so that it's directly accessible for the thumb. Um and it would need t there would need to be a {disfmarker} it would need to be articulated just below that so that it could be switched around for uh left or right handed users. So. You then have a grip section that can be more or less the same irrespective of handedness. You just have big {vocalsound} two big buttons that cover most of the area so it can {vocalsound} in the upper part, one for the four finger, one for the middle finger. Um, and that {disfmarker}Marketing: Is this the joystickUser Interface: Th {vocalsound} this part here is the joystick. This would be the actual grip. Probably where you'd want to have the battery as well.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: That would be probably the bulkiest part. And you then have, at the uh at the bottom, the L_C_D_, and this would need to be articulated as well. And basically I'd want this to rest here, right at the base of the wrist. So it would fit just nicely in the hand. And again, this part could be rotated, so it can {disfmarker} {vocalsound} So {vocalsound} so so that it can be adjusted to either left or right handed user. Um {disfmarker} So the t uh the top function button in basic mode would be the on off switch and menu mode would be the enter button. And then the bottom function buttons switches between between modes. Um now programming it {vocalsound} actually thi this is one thing I've found with um the replacement remote control. Programming them can be a right pain. So I thought th the simplest way around that would be to have um a cable to connect it to the computer some {vocalsound} some fair iv {gap} fairly fairly simple software on the computer just so that you {disfmarker} on your {gap} computer just so that you could um pr {vocalsound} program it at a so what I ra rather than looking at other remotes, uh ra oomp be better to simply look at the human hand. Um and try and f um and try and figure out a way of laying out the elements we've already decided on, um so that if r a if {vocalsound} so that the finger is e each finger or thumb is wherever it needs to be already. Um so uh next slide, if you please. Um and what we've basically decided on was the the um the joy uh the joystick, two function buttons and the L_C_D_, just keep it paired down to the absolute minimum. I don't actually think we need the um the numeric keypad because if you m because one of the menus that we could have available um {vocalsound} v via via the L_C_D_ is one where you scroll through channels, so if there's something f {vocalsound} and be bear in mind since this isn't meant to work for umMarketing: {gap} digital.User Interface: f f f {vocalsound} for di for digital or um or for {vocalsound} or for cable, whatever,Industrial Designer: Ah, okay.User Interface: you're basically looking at four or five terrestrial channels, and then um your V_C_ uh and then the channel through your V_C_R_ and or D_V_D_ player. And or um {gap} box. So it's not {vocalsound} I'm not really excessively concerned about that. You must have two two modes, basic mode, where um the joystick's uh left right {vocalsound} left right for channels, up down for volume, um and the uh uh and the menu mode for uh further functions. Um now the reason I was particularly interested in using rubber for this is that if we're going to have a highly ergonomic design, um it needs to be ergonomic for

Summarize the whole meeting.

After a brief review of the last meeting, Industrial Designer, User Interface and Marketing gave their presentations respectively on components, interface design and user requirements of the new remote control. Considering Marketing's advice and the budget, the team temporarily decided on a double-curved rubber remote control with an ergonomic joystick and an LCD screen menu display. Users could program their remote controls on the LCD screen as well as using software on the computer. Power would be supplied to the remote control by standard batteries. The beeping sound of the location function could be customized. Project Manager informed the team of the plan for the next meeting. Industrial Designer and User Interface would present a prototype of the remote control. The team would also make a product evaluation.

OK.Grad C: Because what will happen then is that people repeat {disfmarker} repeat, {comment} or as much as they can, of that phrasing.Grad E: OK.Grad G: Hmm. Um, are you worried about being able to identify {disfmarker}Grad E: OK.Grad G: Um. The {disfmarker} The goals that we've d you guys have been talking about are this {disfmarker} these you know identifying which of three modes um their question uh concerns.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: So it's like the Enter versus View {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah, we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we will sort of get a protocol of the prior interaction,Grad G: Uh - huh.Grad C: right That's where the instructor, the person we are going to hire, um and the subjects sit down together with these high level thingsGrad G: Uh - huh. Mm - hmm.Grad C: and so th the q first question for the subject is," so these are things, you know, we thought a tourist can do. Is there anything that interests you" Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And the person can say" yeah, sure sh this is something I would do. I would go shopping" . Yeah and then we can sort of {disfmarker} this s instructor can say" well, uh then you {disfmarker} you may want to find out how to get over hereGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: because this is where the shopping district is" .Grad G: So the interaction beforehand will give them hints about how specific or how whatever though the kinds of questions that are going to ask during the actual sessionGrad C: No. Just sort of {disfmarker} OK, what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what would you like to buy and then um OK there you wanna buy a whatever cuckoos clocksGrad G: Yeah.Grad C: OK and the there is this while you were talking, sorry.Grad G: It's OK.Grad B: Uh a link between the action schema, a field in the s in the schema for the image schemas that would link us to which action schema we were supposed to use so we could {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah. Um, well that's {disfmarker} that's one {disfmarker} one thing is that we can link up, think also that um we can have one or m as many as we want links from {disfmarker} from the schema up to the s action um description of it.Grad G: Hmm.Grad C: But the notion I got from Nancy's idea was that we may f find sort of concepts floating around i in the a action description of the action f" Enter" frame up there that are, e when you talk about the real world, actually identical to the goal of the {disfmarker} the S Source - Path - Goal schema,Grad G: Exactly. Right, right.Grad C: and do we have means of {disfmarker} of telling it within that a and the answer is absolutely.Grad G: Right.Grad C: The way {disfmarker} we absolutely have those means that are even part of the M - three - L A API,Grad G: Yeah. Oh great. s Uh - huh.Grad C: meaning we can reference. So meaning {disfmarker}Grad G: Great. That's exactly what is necessary.Grad B: Yeah. StGrad C: And um. This referencing thing however is of temporary nature because sooner or later the W - three - C will be finished with their X - path, uh, um, specification and then it's going to be even much nicer. Then we have real means of pointing at an individual instantiation of one of our elements hereGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: and link it to another one, and this not to be conceptually important that we find out if we can s if {disfmarker} if there {disfmarker} if there are things in there that are sort of a general nature, we should distill them out and put them where the schemas are.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: If there are things that you know are intention - specific, then we should put them up somewhere, aGrad G: So, in general they'll be bindings across both intentions and the actions.Grad C: Yep. That's wonderful.Grad G: So {disfmarker} Yeah. So it's gen it's general across all of these thingsGrad C: Yeah.Grad G: it's like {disfmarker} I mean Shastri would say you know binding is like {vocalsound} an essential cognitive uh process. So. {vocalsound} Um.Grad C: OK.Grad G: So I don't think it will be isolated to one or the two, but you can definitely figure out where {disfmarker} Yeah, sometimes things belong and {disfmarker} So actually I'm not sure {disfmarker} I would be curious to see how separate the intention part and the action part are in the system. Like I know the whole thing is like intention lattice, or something like that,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: right So is the ri right now are the ideas the rich {disfmarker} rich the RAD or whatever is one you know potential block inside intention. It's still {disfmarker} it's still mainly intention hypothesisGrad C: Yeah. Yeah.Grad G: and then that's just one way to describe the {disfmarker} the action part of it.Grad C: Yeah.Grad G: OK.Grad B: It's an a attempt to refine it basically.Grad C: It's {disfmarker} And yeah,Grad G: OK, great uh - huh.Grad C: it's an {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's sort of {disfmarker}Grad G: Not just that you want to go from here to here, it's that the action is what you intendGrad C: Yeah.Grad G: and this action consists of all com complicated modules and image schemas and whatever.Grad C: Yeah. And {disfmarker} and there will be a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a relatively high level of redundancyGrad G: So.Grad C: in the sense that um ultimately one {disfmarker}Grad G: Mm - hmm. which is, yeah, It's fineGrad C: so th so that if we want to get really cocky we we will say" well if you really look at it, you just need our RAD." You can throw the rest away, rightGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: Because you're not gonna get anymore information out of the action a as you find it there in the domain object.Grad G: Right. Right. Mm - hmm.Grad C: But then again um in this case, the domain object may contain information that we don't really care about either. So.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: H But w we'll see that then, and how {disfmarker} how it sort of evolves.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: I mean if {disfmarker} if people really like our {disfmarker} our RAD, I mean w what might happen is that they will get rid of that action thing completely, you know, and leave it up for us to get the parser input umGrad G: Mmm. We know the things that make use of this thing so that we can just change them so that they make use of RAD.Grad C: Yeah. Yeah.Undergrad D: You don't have to use the acronym.Grad G: I can't believe we're using this term. So I'm like RAD! Like every time I say it, it's horrible. OK.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: I see what you mean.Grad B: RAD's a great term.Grad G: Is the {disfmarker} But what is the" why" Grad do we feelGrad E: huhGrad C: Yeah. Do feel that we have done our chores for this week or {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah. So I mean clearly there's {disfmarker} I can talk about the um the parser changes on Friday at least,Grad C: OK, Bhaskara will do the big show on Friday.Grad F: so.Grad G: And you guys will argue some moreGrad B: And between now and then yeah.Grad E: Yeah. Between now and then.Grad G: and have someGrad C: We will {disfmarker} rGrad E: PromiseGrad G: probably.PhD A: Yeah.Grad B: We will. Don't worry.Grad G: Yeah.PhD A: Yeah.Grad G: And we'll get the summary like, this {disfmarker} the c you know, short version, like {disfmarker}PhD A: An - and I would like to second Keith's request.Grad G: SPhD A: An example wo would be nice t to have kind of a detailed example.Grad C: Yes.Grad E: Yeah.Grad C: Yes. I've {disfmarker} I've {disfmarker} I've {disfmarker} I guess I'm on record for promising that now.PhD A: OK.Grad C: So um {disfmarker}Grad G: Like have it {disfmarker} we'll have it in writing. So. or, better, speech. So.Grad C: This is it and umGrad B: The other good thing about it is Jerry can be on here on Friday and he can weigh in as well.Grad C: Yeah. and um if you can get that binding point also maybe with a nice example that would be helpful for Johno and me.Grad G: Oh yeah uh OK. let's uh yeah they're {disfmarker}Grad C: Give us {disfmarker}Undergrad D: No problem,Grad E: I think you've got one on hand,Undergrad D: yeah.Grad E: huhGrad G: I have several in my head, yeah. Always thinking about binding.Grad C: Well the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the binding is technically no problem but it's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} for me it seems

Summarize the discussion about capturing the intention of subjects

The new system for collecting subject intention focused on allowing subjects to come up with the intent themselves. Instead of giving them a list of goals, the subjects would, with the help of an instructor, figure out what they want to do in the environment. The earlier interaction with the instructor would give them a sense of how specific their goals in the environment could be. Another idea was to use pictures for people to help determine their intention, but the manufacturing of pictures seemed to be a very intensive project.

OK.Grad C: Because what will happen then is that people repeat {disfmarker} repeat, {comment} or as much as they can, of that phrasing.Grad E: OK.Grad G: Hmm. Um, are you worried about being able to identify {disfmarker}Grad E: OK.Grad G: Um. The {disfmarker} The goals that we've d you guys have been talking about are this {disfmarker} these you know identifying which of three modes um their question uh concerns.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: So it's like the Enter versus View {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah, we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we will sort of get a protocol of the prior interaction,Grad G: Uh - huh.Grad C: right That's where the instructor, the person we are going to hire, um and the subjects sit down together with these high level thingsGrad G: Uh - huh. Mm - hmm.Grad C: and so th the q first question for the subject is," so these are things, you know, we thought a tourist can do. Is there anything that interests you" Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And the person can say" yeah, sure sh this is something I would do. I would go shopping" . Yeah and then we can sort of {disfmarker} this s instructor can say" well, uh then you {disfmarker} you may want to find out how to get over hereGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: because this is where the shopping district is" .Grad G: So the interaction beforehand will give them hints about how specific or how whatever though the kinds of questions that are going to ask during the actual sessionGrad C: No. Just sort of {disfmarker} OK, what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what would you like to buy and then um OK there you wanna buy a whatever cuckoos clocksGrad G: Yeah.Grad C: OK and the there is to be conceptually important that we find out if we can s if {disfmarker} if there {disfmarker} if there are things in there that are sort of a general nature, we should distill them out and put them where the schemas are.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: If there are things that you know are intention - specific, then we should put them up somewhere, aGrad G: So, in general they'll be bindings across both intentions and the actions.Grad C: Yep. That's wonderful.Grad G: So {disfmarker} Yeah. So it's gen it's general across all of these thingsGrad C: Yeah.Grad G: it's like {disfmarker} I mean Shastri would say you know binding is like {vocalsound} an essential cognitive uh process. So. {vocalsound} Um.Grad C: OK.Grad G: So I don't think it will be isolated to one or the two, but you can definitely figure out where {disfmarker} Yeah, sometimes things belong and {disfmarker} So actually I'm not sure {disfmarker} I would be curious to see how separate the intention part and the action part are in the system. Like I know the whole thing is like intention lattice, or something like that,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: right So is the ri right now are the ideas the rich {disfmarker} rich the RAD or whatever is one you know potential block inside intention. It's still {disfmarker} it's still mainly intention hypothesisGrad C: Yeah. Yeah.Grad G: and then that's just one way to describe the {disfmarker} the action part of it.Grad C: Yeah.Grad G: OK.Grad B: It's an a attempt to refine it basically.Grad C: It's {disfmarker} And yeah,Grad G: OK, great uh - huh.Grad C: it's an {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's sort of {disfmarker}Grad G: Not just that you want to go from here to here, it's that the someplace with the intention of entering and looking at pictures.PhD A: Right.Grad C: However, not only was {disfmarker} the common census were {disfmarker} among all participants of Friday's meeting was it's gonna be very laborious to {disfmarker} to make these drawings for each different things,PhD A: Right.Grad C: all the different actions, if at all possible, and also people will get caught up in the pictures. So all of a sudden we'll get descriptions of pictures in there.PhD A: Right.Grad C: And people talking about pictures and pictorial representationsGrad E: Hmm.Grad C: and {disfmarker} umPhD A: Right.Grad C: I would s I would still be willing to try it.PhD A: I mean, I I'm {disfmarker} I'm not saying it's necessary but {disfmarker} but uh i uh uh i {vocalsound} you might be able to combine you know text uh and {disfmarker} and some sort of picture and also uh I think it {disfmarker} it will be a good idea to show them the text and kind of chew the task and then take the test away {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the text awayGrad C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.PhD A: so that they are not uh guided by {disfmarker} by by what you wrote,Grad C: We will {disfmarker}PhD A: but can come up with their {disfmarker} with their own {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah, they will have no more linguistic matter in front of them when they enter this room.PhD A: Right.Grad C: OK. Then I suggest we move on to the {disfmarker} to we have um uh the EDU Project, let me make one more general remark, has sort of two {disfmarker} two side uh um actions, its um action items that we're do dealing with, one is modifying the SmartKom parser and the other one is action is what you intendGrad C: Yeah.Grad G: and this action consists of all com complicated modules and image schemas and whatever.Grad C: Yeah. And {disfmarker} and there will be a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a relatively high level of redundancyGrad G: So.Grad C: in the sense that um ultimately one {disfmarker}Grad G: Mm - hmm. which is, yeah, It's fineGrad C: so th so that if we want to get really cocky we we will say" well if you really look at it, you just need our RAD." You can throw the rest away, rightGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: Because you're not gonna get anymore information out of the action a as you find it there in the domain object.Grad G: Right. Right. Mm - hmm.Grad C: But then again um in this case, the domain object may contain information that we don't really care about either. So.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: H But w we'll see that then, and how {disfmarker} how it sort of evolves.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: I mean if {disfmarker} if people really like our {disfmarker} our RAD, I mean w what might happen is that they will get rid of that action thing completely, you know, and leave it up for us to get the parser input umGrad G: Mmm. We know the things that make use of this thing so that we can just change them so that they make use of RAD.Grad C: Yeah. Yeah.Undergrad D: You don't have to use the acronym.Grad G: I can't believe we're using this term. So I'm like RAD! Like every time I say it, it's horrible. OK.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: I see what you mean.Grad B: RAD's a great term.Grad G: Is the {disfmarker} But what is the" why" Grad Grad G: Time.Grad C: Thanks.Grad G: Are you FeyUndergrad D: I am Fey, yeah.Grad G: Oh.Grad B: What day is todayUndergrad D: Hi.Grad G: Hi. I think we've met before, like, I remember talking to you about Aspect or something like that at some point or other.Undergrad D: A couple times yeah.Grad F: It's the uh twenty {disfmarker} nineteenth.Grad B: NineteenthUndergrad D: That's right, yeah.Grad G: So.Undergrad D: And you were my GSI briefly, until I dropped the class.Grad F:Grad B: Right, right.Grad G: Oh that's right.Undergrad D: But.Grad G: Well.Grad C: OK, wh whGrad G: No offense.Grad C: Yeah.Grad G: Like.Grad C: OK. Some in some introductions are in order.Grad G: Oh, OK sorry.Grad C: OK.Grad G: Getting ahead of myself.Grad C: So. Um. For those who don't know {disfmarker} Everyone knows me, this is great. Um, apart from that, sort of the old gang, Johno and Bhaskara have been with us from {disfmarker} from day oneGrad G: Yay!Grad E: Hi.Grad C: and um they're engaged in {disfmarker} in various activities, some of which you will hear about today. Ami is um our counselor and spiritual guidance and um also interested in problems concerning reference of the more complex type,PhD A: Well.Grad E: Oh wow.Grad C: and um he sits in as a interested participant and helper. Is that a good characterizationPhD A: u That's pretty good, I think.Grad C: I don't know.PhD A: Yeah. Thanks.Grad C: OK. Keith is not technically one of us yet,Grad E: Not yet.Grad C: ha - ha. but um it's too late for him now.Grad G:" One of us." Grad C: So.Grad E: Yeah right. I've got the headset on after all.Grad C: Um. Officially I guess he will be joining us in the summer.Grad E: yes.Grad C: And um hopefully it is

What did Grad C think about capturing subject intention

Grad C introduced the topic and explained that the new idea was to allow subjects to generate high level tasks, like going shopping, by themselves. Subjects would also be provided a high level schematic which would give them basic features of the environment. Though, the schematic would not contain detailed information, like a street map, which would be reserved for interactions with the wizard. An instructor would be hired to help subjects navigate the high level tasks.

OK.Grad C: Because what will happen then is that people repeat {disfmarker} repeat, {comment} or as much as they can, of that phrasing.Grad E: OK.Grad G: Hmm. Um, are you worried about being able to identify {disfmarker}Grad E: OK.Grad G: Um. The {disfmarker} The goals that we've d you guys have been talking about are this {disfmarker} these you know identifying which of three modes um their question uh concerns.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: So it's like the Enter versus View {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah, we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we will sort of get a protocol of the prior interaction,Grad G: Uh - huh.Grad C: right That's where the instructor, the person we are going to hire, um and the subjects sit down together with these high level thingsGrad G: Uh - huh. Mm - hmm.Grad C: and so th the q first question for the subject is," so these are things, you know, we thought a tourist can do. Is there anything that interests you" Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And the person can say" yeah, sure sh this is something I would do. I would go shopping" . Yeah and then we can sort of {disfmarker} this s instructor can say" well, uh then you {disfmarker} you may want to find out how to get over hereGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: because this is where the shopping district is" .Grad G: So the interaction beforehand will give them hints about how specific or how whatever though the kinds of questions that are going to ask during the actual sessionGrad C: No. Just sort of {disfmarker} OK, what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what would you like to buy and then um OK there you wanna buy a whatever cuckoos clocksGrad G: Yeah.Grad C: OK and the there is someplace with the intention of entering and looking at pictures.PhD A: Right.Grad C: However, not only was {disfmarker} the common census were {disfmarker} among all participants of Friday's meeting was it's gonna be very laborious to {disfmarker} to make these drawings for each different things,PhD A: Right.Grad C: all the different actions, if at all possible, and also people will get caught up in the pictures. So all of a sudden we'll get descriptions of pictures in there.PhD A: Right.Grad C: And people talking about pictures and pictorial representationsGrad E: Hmm.Grad C: and {disfmarker} umPhD A: Right.Grad C: I would s I would still be willing to try it.PhD A: I mean, I I'm {disfmarker} I'm not saying it's necessary but {disfmarker} but uh i uh uh i {vocalsound} you might be able to combine you know text uh and {disfmarker} and some sort of picture and also uh I think it {disfmarker} it will be a good idea to show them the text and kind of chew the task and then take the test away {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the text awayGrad C: Mm - hmm. Yeah.PhD A: so that they are not uh guided by {disfmarker} by by what you wrote,Grad C: We will {disfmarker}PhD A: but can come up with their {disfmarker} with their own {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah, they will have no more linguistic matter in front of them when they enter this room.PhD A: Right.Grad C: OK. Then I suggest we move on to the {disfmarker} to we have um uh the EDU Project, let me make one more general remark, has sort of two {disfmarker} two side uh um actions, its um action items that we're do dealing with, one is modifying the SmartKom parser and the other one is Grad G: Time.Grad C: Thanks.Grad G: Are you FeyUndergrad D: I am Fey, yeah.Grad G: Oh.Grad B: What day is todayUndergrad D: Hi.Grad G: Hi. I think we've met before, like, I remember talking to you about Aspect or something like that at some point or other.Undergrad D: A couple times yeah.Grad F: It's the uh twenty {disfmarker} nineteenth.Grad B: NineteenthUndergrad D: That's right, yeah.Grad G: So.Undergrad D: And you were my GSI briefly, until I dropped the class.Grad F:Grad B: Right, right.Grad G: Oh that's right.Undergrad D: But.Grad G: Well.Grad C: OK, wh whGrad G: No offense.Grad C: Yeah.Grad G: Like.Grad C: OK. Some in some introductions are in order.Grad G: Oh, OK sorry.Grad C: OK.Grad G: Getting ahead of myself.Grad C: So. Um. For those who don't know {disfmarker} Everyone knows me, this is great. Um, apart from that, sort of the old gang, Johno and Bhaskara have been with us from {disfmarker} from day oneGrad G: Yay!Grad E: Hi.Grad C: and um they're engaged in {disfmarker} in various activities, some of which you will hear about today. Ami is um our counselor and spiritual guidance and um also interested in problems concerning reference of the more complex type,PhD A: Well.Grad E: Oh wow.Grad C: and um he sits in as a interested participant and helper. Is that a good characterizationPhD A: u That's pretty good, I think.Grad C: I don't know.PhD A: Yeah. Thanks.Grad C: OK. Keith is not technically one of us yet,Grad E: Not yet.Grad C: ha - ha. but um it's too late for him now.Grad G:" One of us." Grad C: So.Grad E: Yeah right. I've got the headset on after all.Grad C: Um. Officially I guess he will be joining us in the summer.Grad E: yes.Grad C: And um hopefully it is to be conceptually important that we find out if we can s if {disfmarker} if there {disfmarker} if there are things in there that are sort of a general nature, we should distill them out and put them where the schemas are.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: If there are things that you know are intention - specific, then we should put them up somewhere, aGrad G: So, in general they'll be bindings across both intentions and the actions.Grad C: Yep. That's wonderful.Grad G: So {disfmarker} Yeah. So it's gen it's general across all of these thingsGrad C: Yeah.Grad G: it's like {disfmarker} I mean Shastri would say you know binding is like {vocalsound} an essential cognitive uh process. So. {vocalsound} Um.Grad C: OK.Grad G: So I don't think it will be isolated to one or the two, but you can definitely figure out where {disfmarker} Yeah, sometimes things belong and {disfmarker} So actually I'm not sure {disfmarker} I would be curious to see how separate the intention part and the action part are in the system. Like I know the whole thing is like intention lattice, or something like that,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: right So is the ri right now are the ideas the rich {disfmarker} rich the RAD or whatever is one you know potential block inside intention. It's still {disfmarker} it's still mainly intention hypothesisGrad C: Yeah. Yeah.Grad G: and then that's just one way to describe the {disfmarker} the action part of it.Grad C: Yeah.Grad G: OK.Grad B: It's an a attempt to refine it basically.Grad C: It's {disfmarker} And yeah,Grad G: OK, great uh - huh.Grad C: it's an {disfmarker} an {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's sort of {disfmarker}Grad G: Not just that you want to go from here to here, it's that the action is what you intendGrad C: Yeah.Grad G: and this action consists of all com complicated modules and image schemas and whatever.Grad C: Yeah. And {disfmarker} and there will be a {disfmarker} a {disfmarker} a relatively high level of redundancyGrad G: So.Grad C: in the sense that um ultimately one {disfmarker}Grad G: Mm - hmm. which is, yeah, It's fineGrad C: so th so that if we want to get really cocky we we will say" well if you really look at it, you just need our RAD." You can throw the rest away, rightGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: Because you're not gonna get anymore information out of the action a as you find it there in the domain object.Grad G: Right. Right. Mm - hmm.Grad C: But then again um in this case, the domain object may contain information that we don't really care about either. So.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: H But w we'll see that then, and how {disfmarker} how it sort of evolves.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: I mean if {disfmarker} if people really like our {disfmarker} our RAD, I mean w what might happen is that they will get rid of that action thing completely, you know, and leave it up for us to get the parser input umGrad G: Mmm. We know the things that make use of this thing so that we can just change them so that they make use of RAD.Grad C: Yeah. Yeah.Undergrad D: You don't have to use the acronym.Grad G: I can't believe we're using this term. So I'm like RAD! Like every time I say it, it's horrible. OK.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: I see what you mean.Grad B: RAD's a great term.Grad G: Is the {disfmarker} But what is the" why" Grad

What did Grad G think about capturing the subject intention

Grad G learned that the materials would be based on real materials about Heidelberg and that the instructor would allow subjects to get a feel for the system's capabilities. Grad G also learned that the interactions would be more natural.

to worry about um {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad C: And the presentation agent will go" Hhh!" {comment} NuhGrad G: OK.Grad C: Like that {disfmarker} the avatar.Grad G: OK.Grad C: And um. And then you pick {disfmarker} pick a movie and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and it show shows you the times and you pick a time and you pick seats and all of this. So.Grad G: OK.Grad C: Pretty straightforward.Grad E: OK.Grad C: But it's {disfmarker} so this time we {disfmarker} we are at an advantage because it was a problem for the German system to incorporate all these English movie titles.Grad G: Yeah.Grad C: Nuh But in English, that's not really a problem,Grad G: Right. Mm - hmm.Grad C: unless we get some {disfmarker} some topical German movies that have just come out and that are in their database. So the person may select" Huehner Rennen" or whatever.Grad G: Right.Grad E:" Chicken Run" .Grad C: OK. Then uh on to the modeling. RightGrad B: Yeah, yeah, I guess.Grad C: Um then modeling, there it is.Grad B: Yep.Grad E: OK. What's the next thingGrad B: eGrad C: This is very rough but this is sort of what um Johno and I managed to come up with. The idea here is that {disfmarker}Grad B: This is the uh s the schema of the XML here, not an example or something like that.Grad C: Yeah this is not an XML this is sort of towards an {disfmarker} a schema,Grad E: OK.PhD A: Right.Grad C: nuh definition. The idea is, so, imagine we have a library of schema such as the Source - Path - Goal and then we have forced uh motion, we have cost action,Grad E: Mm - hmm.Grad C: we have a whole library of schemas.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And they're named" Powder - Tower" of the type" Tower" . RightGrad G: This is the uh {disfmarker} what the action planner usesGrad B: Right. Currently.Grad G: This is {disfmarker} OK.Grad C: Currently.Grad G: And is that {disfmarker} and tha that's changeable or notGrad C: Yeah, well {disfmarker}Grad G: Like are we adapting to itGrad C: No.Grad G: Or {disfmarker}Grad C: We {disfmarker} This is the output, sort of, of the natural language understanding,Grad G: Oh, yeah.Grad C: rightGrad G: Uh - huh.Grad C: the input into the action planning, as it is now.Grad G: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad C: And what we are going to do, we going to {disfmarker} and you can see here, and again for Johno please {disfmarker} please focus the shadow,Grad B: OK.Grad C: um we're gon uh uh here you have the action and the domain object and w and on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker}Grad G: What did you think he was doingGrad B: I just {disfmarker}Grad G: OK, sorry.Grad E: A laser pointer would be most appropriate here I think.Grad C: Yeah I {disfmarker} I um have {disfmarker} I have no {disfmarker}Undergrad D: Eee.Grad B: Robert likes to be abstract and that's what I just thought he was doing.Grad G: You look up here.Grad C: Sort of between here and here,Grad G: OK.Grad C: so as you can see this is on one level and we are going to add another um" Struct" , if you want, IE a rich action description on that level.Grad E: Mm - hmm.Grad C: So in the future {disfmarker}Grad G: So it's just an additional information {disfmarker}Grad C: Exactly. In the future though, the content of a hypothesis will not only be an object and an {disfmarker} an action and a domain object but an action, a domain this while you were talking, sorry.Grad G: It's OK.Grad B: Uh a link between the action schema, a field in the s in the schema for the image schemas that would link us to which action schema we were supposed to use so we could {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah. Um, well that's {disfmarker} that's one {disfmarker} one thing is that we can link up, think also that um we can have one or m as many as we want links from {disfmarker} from the schema up to the s action um description of it.Grad G: Hmm.Grad C: But the notion I got from Nancy's idea was that we may f find sort of concepts floating around i in the a action description of the action f" Enter" frame up there that are, e when you talk about the real world, actually identical to the goal of the {disfmarker} the S Source - Path - Goal schema,Grad G: Exactly. Right, right.Grad C: and do we have means of {disfmarker} of telling it within that a and the answer is absolutely.Grad G: Right.Grad C: The way {disfmarker} we absolutely have those means that are even part of the M - three - L A API,Grad G: Yeah. Oh great. s Uh - huh.Grad C: meaning we can reference. So meaning {disfmarker}Grad G: Great. That's exactly what is necessary.Grad B: Yeah. StGrad C: And um. This referencing thing however is of temporary nature because sooner or later the W - three - C will be finished with their X - path, uh, um, specification and then it's going to be even much nicer. Then we have real means of pointing at an individual instantiation of one of our elements hereGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: and link it to another one, and this not no. Uh we have not {disfmarker} we have not seen the light.Grad B: No.Grad G: So.Grad B: The {disfmarker} the reason {disfmarker} One reason we're doing it this way is in case there's extra structure that's in the Enter action that's not captured by the schemas,Grad G: I it's easy to go back and forth isn't it Uh - huh. I agree. Right. Right.Grad B: rightGrad G: Which is why I would think you would say Enter and then just say all the things that are relevant specifically to Enter. And then the things that are abstract will be in the abstract things as well. And that's why the bindings become useful.Grad B: Right, but {disfmarker}Grad E: Ri - You'd like {disfmarker} so you're saying you could practically turn this structure inside out or something, or {disfmarker}Grad G: Um Ye - I see what you mean by that,Grad C: No basically wGrad G: but I {disfmarker} I don't if I would {disfmarker} I would need to have t have that.Grad C: Get {disfmarker} get rid of the sort of SPG slash something uh or the sub - actions category,Grad G: Right.Grad C: because what does that tell usGrad G: Uh - huh. Yeah.Grad C: Um and I agree that you know this is something we need to discuss,Grad G: I in fact what you could say is for Enter,Grad C: yeah.Grad G: you could say" here, list all the kinds of schemas that {disfmarker} on the category that {disfmarker}Grad E: List all the parent categories.Grad G: you know i list all the parent categories" . It's just like a frame hierarchy,Grad E: Yeah.Grad G: rightGrad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: like you have these blended frames. So you would say enter and you'd say my parent frames are such - them. However the uh {disfmarker} it seems to be sensible to me to r to view them as mutually exclusive um maybe even not.Grad G: J Do you mean within the Source - Path - Goal actionsPhD A: uh {vocalsound} ye uh uh b I uh I {disfmarker} u I understandGrad C: Yeah.Grad G: Those threePhD A: uh but {disfmarker}Grad C: And um how {disfmarker} how where is the end So that's {disfmarker}PhD A: No, no. There {disfmarker} a a actually by I think my question is simpler than that, um {vocalsound} is {disfmarker} OK, so you have an SPG action and {disfmarker} and it has three different um uh aspects um because you can either enter a building or view it or {disfmarker} or approach it and touch it or something. Um now you define uh another action, it's {disfmarker} it's called um uh s S P G - oneGrad C: Forced action or forced motion. Yeah.PhD A: action a different action. Um and this {disfmarker} uh action - two would have various variable possibilities of interpreting what you would like to do. And {disfmarker} i in {disfmarker} in a way similar to either Enter - View - Approach you may want to send a letter, read a letter, or dictate a letter, let's say. So, hGrad B: Oh the {disfmarker} OK uh maybe I'd {disfmarker} The uh {disfmarker} These actions {disfmarker} I don't know if I'm gonna answer your question or not with this, but the categories inside of action schemas, so, SPG action is a category. Real although I think what we're specifying here is this is a category where the actions" enter, view and approach" would fall into because they have a related Source - Path - Goal schema in our tourist domain. Cuz viewing in

Summarize the discussion about designing the new SPG schema based on a more flexible organization

The team wanted to figure out how roles would be connected to actions. The thought that their current XML schema forced the model to look up, requiring the whole body of the model. The new idea they came up with was to create a parallel intention oriented specification in addition to the pure schema, which would allow for a more flexible schema.

to worry about um {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad C: And the presentation agent will go" Hhh!" {comment} NuhGrad G: OK.Grad C: Like that {disfmarker} the avatar.Grad G: OK.Grad C: And um. And then you pick {disfmarker} pick a movie and {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} and it show shows you the times and you pick a time and you pick seats and all of this. So.Grad G: OK.Grad C: Pretty straightforward.Grad E: OK.Grad C: But it's {disfmarker} so this time we {disfmarker} we are at an advantage because it was a problem for the German system to incorporate all these English movie titles.Grad G: Yeah.Grad C: Nuh But in English, that's not really a problem,Grad G: Right. Mm - hmm.Grad C: unless we get some {disfmarker} some topical German movies that have just come out and that are in their database. So the person may select" Huehner Rennen" or whatever.Grad G: Right.Grad E:" Chicken Run" .Grad C: OK. Then uh on to the modeling. RightGrad B: Yeah, yeah, I guess.Grad C: Um then modeling, there it is.Grad B: Yep.Grad E: OK. What's the next thingGrad B: eGrad C: This is very rough but this is sort of what um Johno and I managed to come up with. The idea here is that {disfmarker}Grad B: This is the uh s the schema of the XML here, not an example or something like that.Grad C: Yeah this is not an XML this is sort of towards an {disfmarker} a schema,Grad E: OK.PhD A: Right.Grad C: nuh definition. The idea is, so, imagine we have a library of schema such as the Source - Path - Goal and then we have forced uh motion, we have cost action,Grad E: Mm - hmm.Grad C: we have a whole library of schemas.Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And they're this while you were talking, sorry.Grad G: It's OK.Grad B: Uh a link between the action schema, a field in the s in the schema for the image schemas that would link us to which action schema we were supposed to use so we could {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah. Um, well that's {disfmarker} that's one {disfmarker} one thing is that we can link up, think also that um we can have one or m as many as we want links from {disfmarker} from the schema up to the s action um description of it.Grad G: Hmm.Grad C: But the notion I got from Nancy's idea was that we may f find sort of concepts floating around i in the a action description of the action f" Enter" frame up there that are, e when you talk about the real world, actually identical to the goal of the {disfmarker} the S Source - Path - Goal schema,Grad G: Exactly. Right, right.Grad C: and do we have means of {disfmarker} of telling it within that a and the answer is absolutely.Grad G: Right.Grad C: The way {disfmarker} we absolutely have those means that are even part of the M - three - L A API,Grad G: Yeah. Oh great. s Uh - huh.Grad C: meaning we can reference. So meaning {disfmarker}Grad G: Great. That's exactly what is necessary.Grad B: Yeah. StGrad C: And um. This referencing thing however is of temporary nature because sooner or later the W - three - C will be finished with their X - path, uh, um, specification and then it's going to be even much nicer. Then we have real means of pointing at an individual instantiation of one of our elements hereGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: and link it to another one, and this not no. Uh we have not {disfmarker} we have not seen the light.Grad B: No.Grad G: So.Grad B: The {disfmarker} the reason {disfmarker} One reason we're doing it this way is in case there's extra structure that's in the Enter action that's not captured by the schemas,Grad G: I it's easy to go back and forth isn't it Uh - huh. I agree. Right. Right.Grad B: rightGrad G: Which is why I would think you would say Enter and then just say all the things that are relevant specifically to Enter. And then the things that are abstract will be in the abstract things as well. And that's why the bindings become useful.Grad B: Right, but {disfmarker}Grad E: Ri - You'd like {disfmarker} so you're saying you could practically turn this structure inside out or something, or {disfmarker}Grad G: Um Ye - I see what you mean by that,Grad C: No basically wGrad G: but I {disfmarker} I don't if I would {disfmarker} I would need to have t have that.Grad C: Get {disfmarker} get rid of the sort of SPG slash something uh or the sub - actions category,Grad G: Right.Grad C: because what does that tell usGrad G: Uh - huh. Yeah.Grad C: Um and I agree that you know this is something we need to discuss,Grad G: I in fact what you could say is for Enter,Grad C: yeah.Grad G: you could say" here, list all the kinds of schemas that {disfmarker} on the category that {disfmarker}Grad E: List all the parent categories.Grad G: you know i list all the parent categories" . It's just like a frame hierarchy,Grad E: Yeah.Grad G: rightGrad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: like you have these blended frames. So you would say enter and you'd say my parent frames are such - do we feelGrad E: huhGrad C: Yeah. Do feel that we have done our chores for this week or {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah. So I mean clearly there's {disfmarker} I can talk about the um the parser changes on Friday at least,Grad C: OK, Bhaskara will do the big show on Friday.Grad F: so.Grad G: And you guys will argue some moreGrad B: And between now and then yeah.Grad E: Yeah. Between now and then.Grad G: and have someGrad C: We will {disfmarker} rGrad E: PromiseGrad G: probably.PhD A: Yeah.Grad B: We will. Don't worry.Grad G: Yeah.PhD A: Yeah.Grad G: And we'll get the summary like, this {disfmarker} the c you know, short version, like {disfmarker}PhD A: An - and I would like to second Keith's request.Grad G: SPhD A: An example wo would be nice t to have kind of a detailed example.Grad C: Yes.Grad E: Yeah.Grad C: Yes. I've {disfmarker} I've {disfmarker} I've {disfmarker} I guess I'm on record for promising that now.PhD A: OK.Grad C: So um {disfmarker}Grad G: Like have it {disfmarker} we'll have it in writing. So. or, better, speech. So.Grad C: This is it and umGrad B: The other good thing about it is Jerry can be on here on Friday and he can weigh in as well.Grad C: Yeah. and um if you can get that binding point also maybe with a nice example that would be helpful for Johno and me.Grad G: Oh yeah uh OK. let's uh yeah they're {disfmarker}Grad C: Give us {disfmarker}Undergrad D: No problem,Grad E: I think you've got one on hand,Undergrad D: yeah.Grad E: huhGrad G: I have several in my head, yeah. Always thinking about binding.Grad C: Well the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the binding is technically no problem but it's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} for me it seems I just don't kn um um um {disfmarker} This is just uh XML mo notational but um the fact that it's action schema and then sort of slash action schema that's a whole entitGrad B: That's a block, yeah.Grad G: That's a block, whereas source is just an attributeGrad C: No, no, no.Grad G: Is that {disfmarker}Grad C: Source is just not spelled out here. Source meaning {disfmarker} Source will be uh will have a name, a type, maybe a dimensionality,Grad G: Oh, OK, OK.Grad C: maybe canonical uh orientation {disfmarker}Grad G: Uh - huh, uh - huh. OK could it {disfmarker} it could also be blocked out then as {disfmarker}Grad B: Yeah, the {disfmarker} So {disfmarker}Grad G: OK.Grad B: Yeah.Grad C: s Source it will be, you know we'll f we know a lot about sources so we'll put all of that in Source.Grad G: OK.Grad C: But it's independent whether we are using the SPG schema in an Enter, View, or Approach mode, rightGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: This is just properties of the SPG {comment} schema. We can talk about Paths being the fastest, the quickest, the nicest and so forth, uh or {disfmarker} or {disfmarker} and the Trajector should be coming in there as well.Grad G: OK.Grad C: And then G the same about Goals.Grad G: OK. So I guess the question is when you actually fill one of these out, it'll be under action schema Those are {disfmarker} It's gonna be one {disfmarker} y you'll pick one of those for {disfmarker}Grad B: Right.Grad G: OK these are {disfmarker} this is just a layout of the possible that could go {disfmarker} play that role.Grad B: Right, so the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the roles will be filled in with the schemaGrad C: HmmGrad G: OK, go

What did Grad C think about the SPG schema

Grad C thought an approach in which the model had to refer to parents seemed inefficient. The model would constantly have to go back. Grad C wanted to completely redo it, even if it meant throwing away what the team had developed thus far.

Grad G: Time.Grad C: Thanks.Grad G: Are you FeyUndergrad D: I am Fey, yeah.Grad G: Oh.Grad B: What day is todayUndergrad D: Hi.Grad G: Hi. I think we've met before, like, I remember talking to you about Aspect or something like that at some point or other.Undergrad D: A couple times yeah.Grad F: It's the uh twenty {disfmarker} nineteenth.Grad B: NineteenthUndergrad D: That's right, yeah.Grad G: So.Undergrad D: And you were my GSI briefly, until I dropped the class.Grad F:Grad B: Right, right.Grad G: Oh that's right.Undergrad D: But.Grad G: Well.Grad C: OK, wh whGrad G: No offense.Grad C: Yeah.Grad G: Like.Grad C: OK. Some in some introductions are in order.Grad G: Oh, OK sorry.Grad C: OK.Grad G: Getting ahead of myself.Grad C: So. Um. For those who don't know {disfmarker} Everyone knows me, this is great. Um, apart from that, sort of the old gang, Johno and Bhaskara have been with us from {disfmarker} from day oneGrad G: Yay!Grad E: Hi.Grad C: and um they're engaged in {disfmarker} in various activities, some of which you will hear about today. Ami is um our counselor and spiritual guidance and um also interested in problems concerning reference of the more complex type,PhD A: Well.Grad E: Oh wow.Grad C: and um he sits in as a interested participant and helper. Is that a good characterizationPhD A: u That's pretty good, I think.Grad C: I don't know.PhD A: Yeah. Thanks.Grad C: OK. Keith is not technically one of us yet,Grad E: Not yet.Grad C: ha - ha. but um it's too late for him now.Grad G:" One of us." Grad C: So.Grad E: Yeah right. I've got the headset on after all.Grad C: Um. Officially I guess he will be joining us in the summer.Grad E: yes.Grad C: And um hopefully it is named" Powder - Tower" of the type" Tower" . RightGrad G: This is the uh {disfmarker} what the action planner usesGrad B: Right. Currently.Grad G: This is {disfmarker} OK.Grad C: Currently.Grad G: And is that {disfmarker} and tha that's changeable or notGrad C: Yeah, well {disfmarker}Grad G: Like are we adapting to itGrad C: No.Grad G: Or {disfmarker}Grad C: We {disfmarker} This is the output, sort of, of the natural language understanding,Grad G: Oh, yeah.Grad C: rightGrad G: Uh - huh.Grad C: the input into the action planning, as it is now.Grad G: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm.Grad C: And what we are going to do, we going to {disfmarker} and you can see here, and again for Johno please {disfmarker} please focus the shadow,Grad B: OK.Grad C: um we're gon uh uh here you have the action and the domain object and w and on {disfmarker} on {disfmarker}Grad G: What did you think he was doingGrad B: I just {disfmarker}Grad G: OK, sorry.Grad E: A laser pointer would be most appropriate here I think.Grad C: Yeah I {disfmarker} I um have {disfmarker} I have no {disfmarker}Undergrad D: Eee.Grad B: Robert likes to be abstract and that's what I just thought he was doing.Grad G: You look up here.Grad C: Sort of between here and here,Grad G: OK.Grad C: so as you can see this is on one level and we are going to add another um" Struct" , if you want, IE a rich action description on that level.Grad E: Mm - hmm.Grad C: So in the future {disfmarker}Grad G: So it's just an additional information {disfmarker}Grad C: Exactly. In the future though, the content of a hypothesis will not only be an object and an {disfmarker} an action and a domain object but an action, a domain OK.Grad C: Because what will happen then is that people repeat {disfmarker} repeat, {comment} or as much as they can, of that phrasing.Grad E: OK.Grad G: Hmm. Um, are you worried about being able to identify {disfmarker}Grad E: OK.Grad G: Um. The {disfmarker} The goals that we've d you guys have been talking about are this {disfmarker} these you know identifying which of three modes um their question uh concerns.Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad G: So it's like the Enter versus View {disfmarker}Grad C: Yeah, we {disfmarker} we {disfmarker} we will sort of get a protocol of the prior interaction,Grad G: Uh - huh.Grad C: right That's where the instructor, the person we are going to hire, um and the subjects sit down together with these high level thingsGrad G: Uh - huh. Mm - hmm.Grad C: and so th the q first question for the subject is," so these are things, you know, we thought a tourist can do. Is there anything that interests you" Grad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And the person can say" yeah, sure sh this is something I would do. I would go shopping" . Yeah and then we can sort of {disfmarker} this s instructor can say" well, uh then you {disfmarker} you may want to find out how to get over hereGrad G: Mm - hmm.Grad C: because this is where the shopping district is" .Grad G: So the interaction beforehand will give them hints about how specific or how whatever though the kinds of questions that are going to ask during the actual sessionGrad C: No. Just sort of {disfmarker} OK, what {disfmarker} what {disfmarker} what would you like to buy and then um OK there you wanna buy a whatever cuckoos clocksGrad G: Yeah.Grad C: OK and the there is do we feelGrad E: huhGrad C: Yeah. Do feel that we have done our chores for this week or {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah. So I mean clearly there's {disfmarker} I can talk about the um the parser changes on Friday at least,Grad C: OK, Bhaskara will do the big show on Friday.Grad F: so.Grad G: And you guys will argue some moreGrad B: And between now and then yeah.Grad E: Yeah. Between now and then.Grad G: and have someGrad C: We will {disfmarker} rGrad E: PromiseGrad G: probably.PhD A: Yeah.Grad B: We will. Don't worry.Grad G: Yeah.PhD A: Yeah.Grad G: And we'll get the summary like, this {disfmarker} the c you know, short version, like {disfmarker}PhD A: An - and I would like to second Keith's request.Grad G: SPhD A: An example wo would be nice t to have kind of a detailed example.Grad C: Yes.Grad E: Yeah.Grad C: Yes. I've {disfmarker} I've {disfmarker} I've {disfmarker} I guess I'm on record for promising that now.PhD A: OK.Grad C: So um {disfmarker}Grad G: Like have it {disfmarker} we'll have it in writing. So. or, better, speech. So.Grad C: This is it and umGrad B: The other good thing about it is Jerry can be on here on Friday and he can weigh in as well.Grad C: Yeah. and um if you can get that binding point also maybe with a nice example that would be helpful for Johno and me.Grad G: Oh yeah uh OK. let's uh yeah they're {disfmarker}Grad C: Give us {disfmarker}Undergrad D: No problem,Grad E: I think you've got one on hand,Undergrad D: yeah.Grad E: huhGrad G: I have several in my head, yeah. Always thinking about binding.Grad C: Well the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the binding is technically no problem but it's {disfmarker} it {disfmarker} for me it seems or something around that time.Grad G: So do I. Yeah.Grad B: two thirty - ish or three is {disfmarker}Grad E: Mm - hmm.Grad F: Yeah. Yeah. eGrad C: Um how {disfmarker} how are your {disfmarker}Grad G: That would be good.PhD A: uh Friday uh Yeah, that's fine.Grad C: And I know that you have until three {disfmarker} You're busyGrad E: Uh {disfmarker}Undergrad D: Yeah.PhD A: Yeah.Grad G: So three is {disfmarker} sounds goodGrad E: Yeah.Grad G: I'll be free by then.Grad E: I could do that. Yeah I mean earlier on Friday is better but three {disfmarker} you know I mean {disfmarker} if it were a three or a three thirty time then I would take the three or whatever,Grad C: Mm - hmm.Grad E: but yeah sure three is fine.Grad C: Yeah, and you can always make it shortly after three probably.Grad E: I mean.Undergrad D: Yeah, and I don't need to be here particularly deeply.Grad C: Often, no, but uh,Undergrad D: Yeah.Grad C: whenever.Undergrad D: But yeah.Grad C: You are more than welcome if you think that this kind of discussion gets you anywhere in {disfmarker} in your life then uh you're free to cUndergrad D: It's fascinating.Grad G:" That's the right answer." Undergrad D: I'm just glad that I don't have to work it outGrad C:Undergrad D: because.Grad E: Yeah.Grad C: HmmUndergrad D: I'm just glad that don't have to work it out myself, that I'm not involved at all in the working out of it because.Grad C: Uh but you're a linguist.Grad E: Yeah.Grad C: You should {disfmarker}Undergrad D: Oh yeah. That's why I'm glad that I'm not involved in working it out.Grad C: OK.PhD A: So it's at Friday at three there that'sGrad C: And umGrad E: So already again this week,Grad C: How diligent

Summarize the meeting

Meeting participants began by going over the logistics of recruiting participants, particularly through departmental mailing lists. They then moved onto discussing a new role, the instructor, who would help experimental participants figure out their intentions. This would eliminate a pre-written set of goals for the participants. Participants also discussed how the schema would incorporate other information, like choosing movies, and how more complex actions, like that of purchasing goods, could be incorporated into the source-path-goal schema. Finally, the participants concluded that an SPG schema of a different kind, one that can transfer previously acquired information, may be more helpful. The meeting concluded with the discussion of a new meeting time.

fair price. One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on this product, a normal use guarantee, which means that this product, for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use, if it should have a technical problem, that we could re replace it at no cost That was something I would be interested in. Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details, we have a we have a product, it has the features and the characteristics, and the background, I believe, to make it marketable I believe at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros. We're gonna be competitive, and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche. Um wProject Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that that we're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could, but lowering our profit marginsMarketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made by corporate um I I m for my evaluation, based on what our competition is, I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm'kay.Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction. But you guys came up with a great product, and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's putting this this combination of of ingredients together. The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only. Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this. But with all of these other Project Manager: Uh'kay. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So so so.User Interface: Put on your mic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So you forgot how this works againUser Interface: Boss.Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: {gap} Boss.Marketing: Maybe. Maybe maybe maybe.Project Manager: Okay so we're here to talk about the detailed design of the product,'kayUser Interface: Yep.Project Manager: And here's the agenda for this meeting. Uh I'm just gonna open, say a few boring words to start with again, and start taking minutes afterwards. You guys are gonna give us a presentation of our wonder product that I can see some demonstrations of over there. Looks cool. And then we're gonna evaluate it.Marketing: {vocalsound} BraUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we're gonna talk about finance, and I've got a lovely Excel spreadsheet that I knocked up in the last five minutes for this. And uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hmm you knocked it upProject Manager: yep. And {vocalsound} we're gonna evaluate the product and close.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Got forty minutes to do this in. We should be fine. Let's try and keep this one on schedule.User Interface: Alright.Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Your thing is in {disfmarker} where is it Is it in {disfmarker}User Interface: Three, three.Industrial Designer: Thi third third third. The end product thingy. Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants itUser Interface: Pedro can have it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.User Interface: I'll help talk.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah so what we ended up with. Production costs estimated by our manufacturing department and um the research department, which is us, is uh fifteen point eight Euros,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: someone forgot the {vocalsound} units thereUser Interface: Unit price.Industrial Designer: yeah, uh unit price {disfmarker} unit production price cost thing. Um we implemented the basic functions, which is just T_V_ functions plus the {disfmarker}User Interface: S's kind of s frighteningly accurate {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation, where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul has has given us {vocalsound}, and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughtsUser Interface: WhatProject Manager: How how have we done todayUser Interface: I think we did pretty well.Project Manager: I think we did pretty well too.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That looks pretty spectacular.Marketing: No, I think we come up with a with a attractive marketable um product and and concept.Project Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts Okay so th th what about um room for creativityMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it the {gap}.Industrial Designer: That was mm-hmm {disfmarker}User Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room.Project Manager: I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there.User Interface: We got a couple innovative iMarketing: YeahUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas.Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they gave usProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: because we d we still have the the teletext capability in this thing right,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: we raised the price of it, we've added two t new technology to it.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So you know you know if this thing flies then we've we've adjusted or broken every every idea they gave us.Project Manager: Not every idea necessarily,Industrial Designer: Basically.Project Manager: it's still a remote control {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: Uh no yeah but {disfmarker} we did we did break with the specs a little bit I guess,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But I like {disfmarker} I mean when locator, which was one of the marketing things, cradle, scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels, and uh we implemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping, your favourite channels functionality, in the scroll.Project Manager: Zapping your favourite channels, ehIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Scrolling through your favourites list.Project Manager: Oh okay okay.Industrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping.Project Manager: Ah'kay okay, that's favourites.Industrial Designer: Maybe it's just a Portuguese thing {vocalsound}. And um yeah that was the result.Project Manager: Ah'kay. I like the the the the logo on there as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's very prominent {vocalsound}.Project Manager: It is very prominent. So this is the {disfmarker}User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit, and this is the actual remote itself. Um so the scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here, um and then the volume controls are here and here.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which is the numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten. This is the power button. Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here This is the teletext.Industrial Designer: Start s the the start uh to to toUser Interface: The programme button,Industrial Designer: programme yeah.Project Manager: Ah, okay I see.User Interface: yeah the programme button. So this bl this button will be used both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use. So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here, and the red area is like a rubber covering.Project Manager: It's pretty cool.User Interface: So you can see create it.Project Manager: Oh I see I see.Marketing: I couldn't create it in the PowerPoint,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I think I've got this really strange cable. So what I had, basically going from the PowerPoint format, is that uh yeah yeah I like this a lot. Is this one of the tests is to see how we can adapt to s changing situations in the in the meeting roomProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Nah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So what we had is we had the method. That's not how you spell method, is itUser Interface: No way.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No A_ {vocalsound}. {gap}. {vocalsound} So this doesn't go so fast this way. And when I speak about method I speak about the marketing of the product huh. And uh to me with this product we got uh {disfmarker} we got {vocalsound} basically three things to market. We've got the features, we have the uh characteristics, and we have the {vocalsound} I I don't know what we would call the other part {disfmarker} what we call you know the the {vocalsound} the corp corporate {disfmarker} Help me. The the corporation stands behind the product, okay. So the features I think {vocalsound} we got the scroll, we've got the uh the locator, we've got the durability, we've got the dependability,Industrial Designer: It fell off.Marketing: we've got you know the features that make this a unique product. UmUser Interface: Beep beep beep.Marketing: {vocalsound} the characteristics I talk about, we have reliability, we have comfort, we have ergonomics, we have environmentally s sensitive. Uh and the corporation, we're talking about {disfmarker} we're we're a new we're a new company. We're wanting to make a name for ourself. We're wanting you to uh find our product so we're gonna give you a good product at a

Summarize the presentation on the function design.

The industrial designer introduced that the product not only had some basic functions, it also had the locator function and provided users with a revolutionary way of zapping. As for the material, the product would be made of plastic and rubber. In addition, the final design was thought to be slightly lighter and smaller than the present model. Later, the group went on to check the controller's paging ability and talked about some details on buttons.

fair price. One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on this product, a normal use guarantee, which means that this product, for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use, if it should have a technical problem, that we could re replace it at no cost That was something I would be interested in. Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details, we have a we have a product, it has the features and the characteristics, and the background, I believe, to make it marketable I believe at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros. We're gonna be competitive, and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche. Um wProject Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that that we're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could, but lowering our profit marginsMarketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made by corporate um I I m for my evaluation, based on what our competition is, I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm'kay.Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction. But you guys came up with a great product, and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's putting this this combination of of ingredients together. The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only. Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this. But with all of these other create it.Project Manager: Oh I see I see.Marketing: I couldn't create it in the PowerPoint,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I think I've got this really strange cable. So what I had, basically going from the PowerPoint format, is that uh yeah yeah I like this a lot. Is this one of the tests is to see how we can adapt to s changing situations in the in the meeting roomProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Nah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So what we had is we had the method. That's not how you spell method, is itUser Interface: No way.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No A_ {vocalsound}. {gap}. {vocalsound} So this doesn't go so fast this way. And when I speak about method I speak about the marketing of the product huh. And uh to me with this product we got uh {disfmarker} we got {vocalsound} basically three things to market. We've got the features, we have the uh characteristics, and we have the {vocalsound} I I don't know what we would call the other part {disfmarker} what we call you know the the {vocalsound} the corp corporate {disfmarker} Help me. The the corporation stands behind the product, okay. So the features I think {vocalsound} we got the scroll, we've got the uh the locator, we've got the durability, we've got the dependability,Industrial Designer: It fell off.Marketing: we've got you know the features that make this a unique product. UmUser Interface: Beep beep beep.Marketing: {vocalsound} the characteristics I talk about, we have reliability, we have comfort, we have ergonomics, we have environmentally s sensitive. Uh and the corporation, we're talking about {disfmarker} we're we're a new we're a new company. We're wanting to make a name for ourself. We're wanting you to uh find our product so we're gonna give you a good product at a Project Manager: Uh'kay. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So so so.User Interface: Put on your mic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So you forgot how this works againUser Interface: Boss.Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: {gap} Boss.Marketing: Maybe. Maybe maybe maybe.Project Manager: Okay so we're here to talk about the detailed design of the product,'kayUser Interface: Yep.Project Manager: And here's the agenda for this meeting. Uh I'm just gonna open, say a few boring words to start with again, and start taking minutes afterwards. You guys are gonna give us a presentation of our wonder product that I can see some demonstrations of over there. Looks cool. And then we're gonna evaluate it.Marketing: {vocalsound} BraUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we're gonna talk about finance, and I've got a lovely Excel spreadsheet that I knocked up in the last five minutes for this. And uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hmm you knocked it upProject Manager: yep. And {vocalsound} we're gonna evaluate the product and close.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Got forty minutes to do this in. We should be fine. Let's try and keep this one on schedule.User Interface: Alright.Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Your thing is in {disfmarker} where is it Is it in {disfmarker}User Interface: Three, three.Industrial Designer: Thi third third third. The end product thingy. Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants itUser Interface: Pedro can have it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.User Interface: I'll help talk.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah so what we ended up with. Production costs estimated by our manufacturing department and um the research department, which is us, is uh fifteen point eight Euros,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: someone forgot the {vocalsound} units thereUser Interface: Unit price.Industrial Designer: yeah, uh unit price {disfmarker} unit production price cost thing. Um we implemented the basic functions, which is just T_V_ functions plus the {disfmarker}User Interface: S's kind of s frighteningly accurate {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation, where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul has has given us {vocalsound}, and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughtsUser Interface: WhatProject Manager: How how have we done todayUser Interface: I think we did pretty well.Project Manager: I think we did pretty well too.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That looks pretty spectacular.Marketing: No, I think we come up with a with a attractive marketable um product and and concept.Project Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts Okay so th th what about um room for creativityMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it the {gap}.Industrial Designer: That was mm-hmm {disfmarker}User Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room.Project Manager: I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there.User Interface: We got a couple innovative iMarketing: YeahUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas.Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they gave usProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: because we d we still have the the teletext capability in this thing right,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: we raised the price of it, we've added two t new technology to it.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So you know you know if this thing flies then we've we've adjusted or broken every every idea they gave us.Project Manager: Not every idea necessarily,Industrial Designer: Basically.Project Manager: it's still a remote control {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: Uh no yeah but {disfmarker} we did we did break with the specs a little bit I guess,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But I like {disfmarker} I mean when locator, which was one of the marketing things, cradle, scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels, and uh we implemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping, your favourite channels functionality, in the scroll.Project Manager: Zapping your favourite channels, ehIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Scrolling through your favourites list.Project Manager: Oh okay okay.Industrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping.Project Manager: Ah'kay okay, that's favourites.Industrial Designer: Maybe it's just a Portuguese thing {vocalsound}. And um yeah that was the result.Project Manager: Ah'kay. I like the the the the logo on there as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's very prominent {vocalsound}.Project Manager: It is very prominent. So this is the {disfmarker}User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit, and this is the actual remote itself. Um so the scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here, um and then the volume controls are here and here.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which is the numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten. This is the power button. Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here This is the teletext.Industrial Designer: Start s the the start uh to to toUser Interface: The programme button,Industrial Designer: programme yeah.Project Manager: Ah, okay I see.User Interface: yeah the programme button. So this bl this button will be used both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use. So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here, and the red area is like a rubber covering.Project Manager: It's pretty cool.User Interface: So you can see

What did the user interface designer and the project manager discuss about the trigger button

The user interface designer thought it might be interesting to have a trigger button on the controller because it felt like there should be something, but they couldn't figure out what button was important enough to put there and they didn't want to accidentally hit the power button. Then the project manager proposed that having a trigger plus the scroll might solve the problem of landing and scrolling as it would be hit on both sides. The user interface designer agreed and further suggested tweaking that a little bit in the final design phase.

fair price. One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on this product, a normal use guarantee, which means that this product, for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use, if it should have a technical problem, that we could re replace it at no cost That was something I would be interested in. Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details, we have a we have a product, it has the features and the characteristics, and the background, I believe, to make it marketable I believe at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros. We're gonna be competitive, and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche. Um wProject Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that that we're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could, but lowering our profit marginsMarketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made by corporate um I I m for my evaluation, based on what our competition is, I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm'kay.Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction. But you guys came up with a great product, and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's putting this this combination of of ingredients together. The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only. Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this. But with all of these other Project Manager: Uh'kay. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So so so.User Interface: Put on your mic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So you forgot how this works againUser Interface: Boss.Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: {gap} Boss.Marketing: Maybe. Maybe maybe maybe.Project Manager: Okay so we're here to talk about the detailed design of the product,'kayUser Interface: Yep.Project Manager: And here's the agenda for this meeting. Uh I'm just gonna open, say a few boring words to start with again, and start taking minutes afterwards. You guys are gonna give us a presentation of our wonder product that I can see some demonstrations of over there. Looks cool. And then we're gonna evaluate it.Marketing: {vocalsound} BraUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we're gonna talk about finance, and I've got a lovely Excel spreadsheet that I knocked up in the last five minutes for this. And uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hmm you knocked it upProject Manager: yep. And {vocalsound} we're gonna evaluate the product and close.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Got forty minutes to do this in. We should be fine. Let's try and keep this one on schedule.User Interface: Alright.Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Your thing is in {disfmarker} where is it Is it in {disfmarker}User Interface: Three, three.Industrial Designer: Thi third third third. The end product thingy. Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants itUser Interface: Pedro can have it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.User Interface: I'll help talk.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah so what we ended up with. Production costs estimated by our manufacturing department and um the research department, which is us, is uh fifteen point eight Euros,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: someone forgot the {vocalsound} units thereUser Interface: Unit price.Industrial Designer: yeah, uh unit price {disfmarker} unit production price cost thing. Um we implemented the basic functions, which is just T_V_ functions plus the locator, which was one of the marketing things, cradle, scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels, and uh we implemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping, your favourite channels functionality, in the scroll.Project Manager: Zapping your favourite channels, ehIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Scrolling through your favourites list.Project Manager: Oh okay okay.Industrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping.Project Manager: Ah'kay okay, that's favourites.Industrial Designer: Maybe it's just a Portuguese thing {vocalsound}. And um yeah that was the result.Project Manager: Ah'kay. I like the the the the logo on there as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's very prominent {vocalsound}.Project Manager: It is very prominent. So this is the {disfmarker}User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit, and this is the actual remote itself. Um so the scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here, um and then the volume controls are here and here.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which is the numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten. This is the power button. Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here This is the teletext.Industrial Designer: Start s the the start uh to to toUser Interface: The programme button,Industrial Designer: programme yeah.Project Manager: Ah, okay I see.User Interface: yeah the programme button. So this bl this button will be used both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use. So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here, and the red area is like a rubber covering.Project Manager: It's pretty cool.User Interface: So you can see {disfmarker}User Interface: S's kind of s frighteningly accurate {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation, where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul has has given us {vocalsound}, and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughtsUser Interface: WhatProject Manager: How how have we done todayUser Interface: I think we did pretty well.Project Manager: I think we did pretty well too.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That looks pretty spectacular.Marketing: No, I think we come up with a with a attractive marketable um product and and concept.Project Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts Okay so th th what about um room for creativityMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it the {gap}.Industrial Designer: That was mm-hmm {disfmarker}User Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room.Project Manager: I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there.User Interface: We got a couple innovative iMarketing: YeahUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas.Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they gave usProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: because we d we still have the the teletext capability in this thing right,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: we raised the price of it, we've added two t new technology to it.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So you know you know if this thing flies then we've we've adjusted or broken every every idea they gave us.Project Manager: Not every idea necessarily,Industrial Designer: Basically.Project Manager: it's still a remote control {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: Uh no yeah but {disfmarker} we did we did break with the specs a little bit I guess,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But I like {disfmarker} I mean when But anyway that's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay so we can talk about finance now. So I have a little spreadsheet for us where {disfmarker} I I was wondering, you {disfmarker} when you talked about the fifteen point eight Euros, I was wondering how you came up with that figureUser Interface: Well, that was just just our technical team added up the um production costs of the individual units.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay so I have bit of a spreadsheet here for this. {vocalsound} NowUser Interface: Oh.Industrial Designer: Very co very colf colourful.Project Manager: I've made a f few assumptions here in that I'm assuming that our power adaptor we can make for a cost of four Euros,User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh-huh.Project Manager: equivalent to solar cells, which I think is probably fair considering that we have in-house manufacturing of power adaptors already.User Interface: Uh-huh.Project Manager: Uh {vocalsound} and I'm assuming that the locator beacon, the you know the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: beep beep beep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Can be made for {disfmarker} it sounded different that time {disfmarker} uh can be made for a similar price to uh an L_C_ display,User Interface: Oh, sorry. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: uh an uh {gap} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Uh do you think that's fair coming from a {disfmarker} m the manufacturingUser Interface: Yeah um I do think we that we we {vocalsound} uh don't need the events chip on print, we only need the uh the regular chip on print,Project Manager: {gap}. Okay.User Interface: so there may have been a m miscalculation in there.Project Manager: Yep. Okay. So we're down to sixteen point four, yeah.User Interface: And we and we have a single-curved uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Is that a single-curved rather than a double-curvedUser Interface: Uh I think that {disfmarker}Project Manager: We're not entirely sure

Summarize the marketing expert's perspective on the product.

The marketing expert thought there were three things making the product marketable - the features, the characteristics, and the corporation behind the product. One drawback of the product was that it was only targeted at TV, but the marketing believed this limitation wouldn't be noteworthy in comparison with other good features. Besides, the marketing proposed that the product should be upgradable but the project manager pointed out the risk of doing that.

fair price. One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on this product, a normal use guarantee, which means that this product, for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use, if it should have a technical problem, that we could re replace it at no cost That was something I would be interested in. Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details, we have a we have a product, it has the features and the characteristics, and the background, I believe, to make it marketable I believe at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros. We're gonna be competitive, and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche. Um wProject Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that that we're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could, but lowering our profit marginsMarketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made by corporate um I I m for my evaluation, based on what our competition is, I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm'kay.Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction. But you guys came up with a great product, and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's putting this this combination of of ingredients together. The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only. Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this. But with all of these other Project Manager: Uh'kay. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So so so.User Interface: Put on your mic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So you forgot how this works againUser Interface: Boss.Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: {gap} Boss.Marketing: Maybe. Maybe maybe maybe.Project Manager: Okay so we're here to talk about the detailed design of the product,'kayUser Interface: Yep.Project Manager: And here's the agenda for this meeting. Uh I'm just gonna open, say a few boring words to start with again, and start taking minutes afterwards. You guys are gonna give us a presentation of our wonder product that I can see some demonstrations of over there. Looks cool. And then we're gonna evaluate it.Marketing: {vocalsound} BraUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we're gonna talk about finance, and I've got a lovely Excel spreadsheet that I knocked up in the last five minutes for this. And uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hmm you knocked it upProject Manager: yep. And {vocalsound} we're gonna evaluate the product and close.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Got forty minutes to do this in. We should be fine. Let's try and keep this one on schedule.User Interface: Alright.Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Your thing is in {disfmarker} where is it Is it in {disfmarker}User Interface: Three, three.Industrial Designer: Thi third third third. The end product thingy. Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants itUser Interface: Pedro can have it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.User Interface: I'll help talk.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah so what we ended up with. Production costs estimated by our manufacturing department and um the research department, which is us, is uh fifteen point eight Euros,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: someone forgot the {vocalsound} units thereUser Interface: Unit price.Industrial Designer: yeah, uh unit price {disfmarker} unit production price cost thing. Um we implemented the basic functions, which is just T_V_ functions plus the locator, which was one of the marketing things, cradle, scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels, and uh we implemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping, your favourite channels functionality, in the scroll.Project Manager: Zapping your favourite channels, ehIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Scrolling through your favourites list.Project Manager: Oh okay okay.Industrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping.Project Manager: Ah'kay okay, that's favourites.Industrial Designer: Maybe it's just a Portuguese thing {vocalsound}. And um yeah that was the result.Project Manager: Ah'kay. I like the the the the logo on there as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's very prominent {vocalsound}.Project Manager: It is very prominent. So this is the {disfmarker}User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit, and this is the actual remote itself. Um so the scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here, um and then the volume controls are here and here.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which is the numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten. This is the power button. Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here This is the teletext.Industrial Designer: Start s the the start uh to to toUser Interface: The programme button,Industrial Designer: programme yeah.Project Manager: Ah, okay I see.User Interface: yeah the programme button. So this bl this button will be used both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use. So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here, and the red area is like a rubber covering.Project Manager: It's pretty cool.User Interface: So you can see {disfmarker}User Interface: S's kind of s frighteningly accurate {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation, where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul has has given us {vocalsound}, and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughtsUser Interface: WhatProject Manager: How how have we done todayUser Interface: I think we did pretty well.Project Manager: I think we did pretty well too.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That looks pretty spectacular.Marketing: No, I think we come up with a with a attractive marketable um product and and concept.Project Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts Okay so th th what about um room for creativityMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it the {gap}.Industrial Designer: That was mm-hmm {disfmarker}User Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room.Project Manager: I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there.User Interface: We got a couple innovative iMarketing: YeahUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas.Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they gave usProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: because we d we still have the the teletext capability in this thing right,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: we raised the price of it, we've added two t new technology to it.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So you know you know if this thing flies then we've we've adjusted or broken every every idea they gave us.Project Manager: Not every idea necessarily,Industrial Designer: Basically.Project Manager: it's still a remote control {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: Uh no yeah but {disfmarker} we did we did break with the specs a little bit I guess,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But I like {disfmarker} I mean when create it.Project Manager: Oh I see I see.Marketing: I couldn't create it in the PowerPoint,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I think I've got this really strange cable. So what I had, basically going from the PowerPoint format, is that uh yeah yeah I like this a lot. Is this one of the tests is to see how we can adapt to s changing situations in the in the meeting roomProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Nah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So what we had is we had the method. That's not how you spell method, is itUser Interface: No way.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No A_ {vocalsound}. {gap}. {vocalsound} So this doesn't go so fast this way. And when I speak about method I speak about the marketing of the product huh. And uh to me with this product we got uh {disfmarker} we got {vocalsound} basically three things to market. We've got the features, we have the uh characteristics, and we have the {vocalsound} I I don't know what we would call the other part {disfmarker} what we call you know the the {vocalsound} the corp corporate {disfmarker} Help me. The the corporation stands behind the product, okay. So the features I think {vocalsound} we got the scroll, we've got the uh the locator, we've got the durability, we've got the dependability,Industrial Designer: It fell off.Marketing: we've got you know the features that make this a unique product. UmUser Interface: Beep beep beep.Marketing: {vocalsound} the characteristics I talk about, we have reliability, we have comfort, we have ergonomics, we have environmentally s sensitive. Uh and the corporation, we're talking about {disfmarker} we're we're a new we're a new company. We're wanting to make a name for ourself. We're wanting you to uh find our product so we're gonna give you a good product at a

What did the marketing think of the marketable part of product design

The marketing expert thought there were three things making the product marketable - the features, the characteristics, and the corporation behind the product. The features included the scroll, the locator, durability, and dependability. The characteristics referred to reliability, comfort, ergonomics, and being environmentally sensitive. As for the business background, they were a new company wanting to make a name for themselves and aiming at supplying good products at a fair price. All these above made the product competitive and the marketing believed they should go after more of the exclusivity sense than the mass market sense.

fair price. One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on this product, a normal use guarantee, which means that this product, for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use, if it should have a technical problem, that we could re replace it at no cost That was something I would be interested in. Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details, we have a we have a product, it has the features and the characteristics, and the background, I believe, to make it marketable I believe at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros. We're gonna be competitive, and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche. Um wProject Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that that we're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could, but lowering our profit marginsMarketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made by corporate um I I m for my evaluation, based on what our competition is, I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm'kay.Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction. But you guys came up with a great product, and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's putting this this combination of of ingredients together. The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only. Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this. But with all of these other locator, which was one of the marketing things, cradle, scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels, and uh we implemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping, your favourite channels functionality, in the scroll.Project Manager: Zapping your favourite channels, ehIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Scrolling through your favourites list.Project Manager: Oh okay okay.Industrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping.Project Manager: Ah'kay okay, that's favourites.Industrial Designer: Maybe it's just a Portuguese thing {vocalsound}. And um yeah that was the result.Project Manager: Ah'kay. I like the the the the logo on there as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's very prominent {vocalsound}.Project Manager: It is very prominent. So this is the {disfmarker}User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit, and this is the actual remote itself. Um so the scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here, um and then the volume controls are here and here.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which is the numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten. This is the power button. Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here This is the teletext.Industrial Designer: Start s the the start uh to to toUser Interface: The programme button,Industrial Designer: programme yeah.Project Manager: Ah, okay I see.User Interface: yeah the programme button. So this bl this button will be used both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use. So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here, and the red area is like a rubber covering.Project Manager: It's pretty cool.User Interface: So you can see features I think people c {vocalsound} one thing I'm I'm hoping for is people are not gonna even notice. There's gonna be somebody going home and say oh sh this thing doesn't work for my D_V_D_ and my {disfmarker} but I like these other things, so they keep it, they don't take it back.Project Manager: And we're actually quite open to be able to expand the product for a later version with those features quite simply anyway, aren't we Th there's no fundamentally different technology to do that.Marketing: {vocalsound} Well one of one of the thoughts that I had is can can this unit be be produced in a way that makes it upgradableProject Manager: Hmm.Marketing: You know uh like like a um a sim card in a in a um in a telephone. You know is there a card in th can we make a card and so after {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: W we need we need we need s some more buttons if it would to work on some other stuff, but {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm, but you follow what I'm s I'm sIndustrial Designer: We we w yeah we could get another version of it that actually works. But uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah'cause if if we can make this unit upgradable then we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah but then we talk about changing the warranty concept and everything, but that's that was just an idea I had. Uh to me the only additions {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, the plus there's the the risk of making it unusable as well, or making it less {disfmarker} b because at the moment it's actually very straightforward to look at all the buttons, you know what they do, it's very simple, and it just works.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm there's a risk of that.Marketing: Yep. {disfmarker}User Interface: S's kind of s frighteningly accurate {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation, where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul has has given us {vocalsound}, and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughtsUser Interface: WhatProject Manager: How how have we done todayUser Interface: I think we did pretty well.Project Manager: I think we did pretty well too.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That looks pretty spectacular.Marketing: No, I think we come up with a with a attractive marketable um product and and concept.Project Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts Okay so th th what about um room for creativityMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it the {gap}.Industrial Designer: That was mm-hmm {disfmarker}User Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room.Project Manager: I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there.User Interface: We got a couple innovative iMarketing: YeahUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas.Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they gave usProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: because we d we still have the the teletext capability in this thing right,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: we raised the price of it, we've added two t new technology to it.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So you know you know if this thing flies then we've we've adjusted or broken every every idea they gave us.Project Manager: Not every idea necessarily,Industrial Designer: Basically.Project Manager: it's still a remote control {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: Uh no yeah but {disfmarker} we did we did break with the specs a little bit I guess,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But I like {disfmarker} I mean when create it.Project Manager: Oh I see I see.Marketing: I couldn't create it in the PowerPoint,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I think I've got this really strange cable. So what I had, basically going from the PowerPoint format, is that uh yeah yeah I like this a lot. Is this one of the tests is to see how we can adapt to s changing situations in the in the meeting roomProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Nah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So what we had is we had the method. That's not how you spell method, is itUser Interface: No way.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No A_ {vocalsound}. {gap}. {vocalsound} So this doesn't go so fast this way. And when I speak about method I speak about the marketing of the product huh. And uh to me with this product we got uh {disfmarker} we got {vocalsound} basically three things to market. We've got the features, we have the uh characteristics, and we have the {vocalsound} I I don't know what we would call the other part {disfmarker} what we call you know the the {vocalsound} the corp corporate {disfmarker} Help me. The the corporation stands behind the product, okay. So the features I think {vocalsound} we got the scroll, we've got the uh the locator, we've got the durability, we've got the dependability,Industrial Designer: It fell off.Marketing: we've got you know the features that make this a unique product. UmUser Interface: Beep beep beep.Marketing: {vocalsound} the characteristics I talk about, we have reliability, we have comfort, we have ergonomics, we have environmentally s sensitive. Uh and the corporation, we're talking about {disfmarker} we're we're a new we're a new company. We're wanting to make a name for ourself. We're wanting you to uh find our product so we're gonna give you a good product at a

Why did the industrial designer and the project manager disagree to make the product upgradable

The marketing suggested producing the controller in a way that makes it upgradable like a sim card in the telephone. However, the industrial designer argued that if the controller was to have other functions it would need more buttons and they should design another version instead. Also, the project manager pointed out there would be some risks of making it unusable or less usable.

Project Manager: Uh'kay. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So so so.User Interface: Put on your mic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So you forgot how this works againUser Interface: Boss.Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: {gap} Boss.Marketing: Maybe. Maybe maybe maybe.Project Manager: Okay so we're here to talk about the detailed design of the product,'kayUser Interface: Yep.Project Manager: And here's the agenda for this meeting. Uh I'm just gonna open, say a few boring words to start with again, and start taking minutes afterwards. You guys are gonna give us a presentation of our wonder product that I can see some demonstrations of over there. Looks cool. And then we're gonna evaluate it.Marketing: {vocalsound} BraUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we're gonna talk about finance, and I've got a lovely Excel spreadsheet that I knocked up in the last five minutes for this. And uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hmm you knocked it upProject Manager: yep. And {vocalsound} we're gonna evaluate the product and close.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Got forty minutes to do this in. We should be fine. Let's try and keep this one on schedule.User Interface: Alright.Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Your thing is in {disfmarker} where is it Is it in {disfmarker}User Interface: Three, three.Industrial Designer: Thi third third third. The end product thingy. Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants itUser Interface: Pedro can have it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.User Interface: I'll help talk.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah so what we ended up with. Production costs estimated by our manufacturing department and um the research department, which is us, is uh fifteen point eight Euros,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: someone forgot the {vocalsound} units thereUser Interface: Unit price.Industrial Designer: yeah, uh unit price {disfmarker} unit production price cost thing. Um we implemented the basic functions, which is just T_V_ functions plus the fair price. One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on this product, a normal use guarantee, which means that this product, for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use, if it should have a technical problem, that we could re replace it at no cost That was something I would be interested in. Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details, we have a we have a product, it has the features and the characteristics, and the background, I believe, to make it marketable I believe at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros. We're gonna be competitive, and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche. Um wProject Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that that we're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could, but lowering our profit marginsMarketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made by corporate um I I m for my evaluation, based on what our competition is, I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm'kay.Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction. But you guys came up with a great product, and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's putting this this combination of of ingredients together. The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only. Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this. But with all of these other {disfmarker}User Interface: S's kind of s frighteningly accurate {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation, where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul has has given us {vocalsound}, and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughtsUser Interface: WhatProject Manager: How how have we done todayUser Interface: I think we did pretty well.Project Manager: I think we did pretty well too.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That looks pretty spectacular.Marketing: No, I think we come up with a with a attractive marketable um product and and concept.Project Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts Okay so th th what about um room for creativityMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it the {gap}.Industrial Designer: That was mm-hmm {disfmarker}User Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room.Project Manager: I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there.User Interface: We got a couple innovative iMarketing: YeahUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas.Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they gave usProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: because we d we still have the the teletext capability in this thing right,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: we raised the price of it, we've added two t new technology to it.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So you know you know if this thing flies then we've we've adjusted or broken every every idea they gave us.Project Manager: Not every idea necessarily,Industrial Designer: Basically.Project Manager: it's still a remote control {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: Uh no yeah but {disfmarker} we did we did break with the specs a little bit I guess,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But I like {disfmarker} I mean when locator, which was one of the marketing things, cradle, scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels, and uh we implemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping, your favourite channels functionality, in the scroll.Project Manager: Zapping your favourite channels, ehIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Scrolling through your favourites list.Project Manager: Oh okay okay.Industrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping.Project Manager: Ah'kay okay, that's favourites.Industrial Designer: Maybe it's just a Portuguese thing {vocalsound}. And um yeah that was the result.Project Manager: Ah'kay. I like the the the the logo on there as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's very prominent {vocalsound}.Project Manager: It is very prominent. So this is the {disfmarker}User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit, and this is the actual remote itself. Um so the scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here, um and then the volume controls are here and here.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which is the numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten. This is the power button. Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here This is the teletext.Industrial Designer: Start s the the start uh to to toUser Interface: The programme button,Industrial Designer: programme yeah.Project Manager: Ah, okay I see.User Interface: yeah the programme button. So this bl this button will be used both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use. So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here, and the red area is like a rubber covering.Project Manager: It's pretty cool.User Interface: So you can see features I think people c {vocalsound} one thing I'm I'm hoping for is people are not gonna even notice. There's gonna be somebody going home and say oh sh this thing doesn't work for my D_V_D_ and my {disfmarker} but I like these other things, so they keep it, they don't take it back.Project Manager: And we're actually quite open to be able to expand the product for a later version with those features quite simply anyway, aren't we Th there's no fundamentally different technology to do that.Marketing: {vocalsound} Well one of one of the thoughts that I had is can can this unit be be produced in a way that makes it upgradableProject Manager: Hmm.Marketing: You know uh like like a um a sim card in a in a um in a telephone. You know is there a card in th can we make a card and so after {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: W we need we need we need s some more buttons if it would to work on some other stuff, but {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm, but you follow what I'm s I'm sIndustrial Designer: We we w yeah we could get another version of it that actually works. But uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah'cause if if we can make this unit upgradable then we're {disfmarker} {vocalsound} yeah but then we talk about changing the warranty concept and everything, but that's that was just an idea I had. Uh to me the only additions {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, the plus there's the the risk of making it unusable as well, or making it less {disfmarker} b because at the moment it's actually very straightforward to look at all the buttons, you know what they do, it's very simple, and it just works.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm there's a risk of that.Marketing: Yep.

Summarize the discussion about product quotation.

When evaluating the cost of the product, the group discussed some details of the components and made some adjustments on the chip, curve, button and scroll wheel. They finally got an accurate estimate of fifteen point eight Euros, which was thought to be within the budget of twelve-five Euros.

fair price. One thing I would want to to see is uh is can we can we get a lifetime uh guarantee on this product, a normal use guarantee, which means that this product, for the for the life of of {disfmarker} the life use, if it should have a technical problem, that we could re replace it at no cost That was something I would be interested in. Um so {vocalsound} yeah without uh going into great details, we have a we have a product, it has the features and the characteristics, and the background, I believe, to make it marketable I believe at a cost of of of thirty thirty five to to fifty Euros. We're gonna be competitive, and we're gonna we're gonna have a market niche. Um wProject Manager: Do you {disfmarker} would you a argue that that we're better going for the higher cost than bringing it down into twenty f five as we probably could, but lowering our profit marginsMarketing: That that would be uh that would be I think a decision best made by corporate um I I m for my evaluation, based on what our competition is, I th I think that that we can go after this and and and go after more of the uh exclusivity sense than the mass market sense.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Mm'kay.Marketing: But I'm sh I'm sure open to to market this in either direction. But you guys came up with a great product, and at that cost I think it uh {disfmarker} there's nobody else that's putting this this combination of of ingredients together. The only limitations I see to this is that we're focused on television only. Uh that's the only that's the only drawback I see to this. But with all of these other locator, which was one of the marketing things, cradle, scroll wheel for uh the {vocalsound} the channels, and uh we implemented the f the the way of putting the new and revolutionary zapping, your favourite channels functionality, in the scroll.Project Manager: Zapping your favourite channels, ehIndustrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Scrolling through your favourites list.Project Manager: Oh okay okay.Industrial Designer: Zapping you know zapping.Project Manager: Ah'kay okay, that's favourites.Industrial Designer: Maybe it's just a Portuguese thing {vocalsound}. And um yeah that was the result.Project Manager: Ah'kay. I like the the the the logo on there as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's very prominent {vocalsound}.Project Manager: It is very prominent. So this is the {disfmarker}User Interface: So {vocalsound} here I'll give you the {disfmarker} so this is the cradle unit, and this is the actual remote itself. Um so the scroll bar is {disfmarker} or the scroll wheel is this this green little scrolly guy here, um and then the volume controls are here and here.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Uh you've got the keypad which is the numbers uh f from zero to nine and then ten. This is the power button. Uh we have our um {vocalsound} we have the enter button and uh what was the other button here This is the teletext.Industrial Designer: Start s the the start uh to to toUser Interface: The programme button,Industrial Designer: programme yeah.Project Manager: Ah, okay I see.User Interface: yeah the programme button. So this bl this button will be used both for the favourites and for programming {vocalsound} your uh the um the type of television you wanna use. So um the plastic is the white area of this {disfmarker} of the model here, and the red area is like a rubber covering.Project Manager: It's pretty cool.User Interface: So you can see Project Manager: Uh'kay. So {disfmarker}Marketing: So so so.User Interface: Put on your mic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} So you forgot how this works againUser Interface: Boss.Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: {gap} Boss.Marketing: Maybe. Maybe maybe maybe.Project Manager: Okay so we're here to talk about the detailed design of the product,'kayUser Interface: Yep.Project Manager: And here's the agenda for this meeting. Uh I'm just gonna open, say a few boring words to start with again, and start taking minutes afterwards. You guys are gonna give us a presentation of our wonder product that I can see some demonstrations of over there. Looks cool. And then we're gonna evaluate it.Marketing: {vocalsound} BraUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Then we're gonna talk about finance, and I've got a lovely Excel spreadsheet that I knocked up in the last five minutes for this. And uhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Hmm you knocked it upProject Manager: yep. And {vocalsound} we're gonna evaluate the product and close.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Got forty minutes to do this in. We should be fine. Let's try and keep this one on schedule.User Interface: Alright.Project Manager: So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Your thing is in {disfmarker} where is it Is it in {disfmarker}User Interface: Three, three.Industrial Designer: Thi third third third. The end product thingy. Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants itUser Interface: Pedro can have it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I like {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.User Interface: I'll help talk.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Um yeah so what we ended up with. Production costs estimated by our manufacturing department and um the research department, which is us, is uh fifteen point eight Euros,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: someone forgot the {vocalsound} units thereUser Interface: Unit price.Industrial Designer: yeah, uh unit price {disfmarker} unit production price cost thing. Um we implemented the basic functions, which is just T_V_ functions plus the {disfmarker}User Interface: S's kind of s frighteningly accurate {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: We're on to the pat-on-the-back part of the presentation, where we have a look at the criterias th that Paul {vocalsound} the criterion criteria that Paul has has given us {vocalsound}, and we can use that to tell {disfmarker} How's it going {vocalsound} Anyone got any thoughtsUser Interface: WhatProject Manager: How how have we done todayUser Interface: I think we did pretty well.Project Manager: I think we did pretty well too.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: That looks pretty spectacular.Marketing: No, I think we come up with a with a attractive marketable um product and and concept.Project Manager: Any other chang uh thoughts Okay so th th what about um room for creativityMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it the {gap}.Industrial Designer: That was mm-hmm {disfmarker}User Interface: Sh I think there was plenty of room.Project Manager: I {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: I think we we ended up being quite creative there.User Interface: We got a couple innovative iMarketing: YeahUser Interface: Couple innovative ideas.Marketing: well we we we kinda broke {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we kinda at least adjusted every every criteria they gave usProject Manager: Mm.Marketing: because we d we still have the the teletext capability in this thing right,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: we raised the price of it, we've added two t new technology to it.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So you know you know if this thing flies then we've we've adjusted or broken every every idea they gave us.Project Manager: Not every idea necessarily,Industrial Designer: Basically.Project Manager: it's still a remote control {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: Uh no yeah but {disfmarker} we did we did break with the specs a little bit I guess,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: But I like {disfmarker} I mean when create it.Project Manager: Oh I see I see.Marketing: I couldn't create it in the PowerPoint,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: and I think I've got this really strange cable. So what I had, basically going from the PowerPoint format, is that uh yeah yeah I like this a lot. Is this one of the tests is to see how we can adapt to s changing situations in the in the meeting roomProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Nah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: So what we had is we had the method. That's not how you spell method, is itUser Interface: No way.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: No A_ {vocalsound}. {gap}. {vocalsound} So this doesn't go so fast this way. And when I speak about method I speak about the marketing of the product huh. And uh to me with this product we got uh {disfmarker} we got {vocalsound} basically three things to market. We've got the features, we have the uh characteristics, and we have the {vocalsound} I I don't know what we would call the other part {disfmarker} what we call you know the the {vocalsound} the corp corporate {disfmarker} Help me. The the corporation stands behind the product, okay. So the features I think {vocalsound} we got the scroll, we've got the uh the locator, we've got the durability, we've got the dependability,Industrial Designer: It fell off.Marketing: we've got you know the features that make this a unique product. UmUser Interface: Beep beep beep.Marketing: {vocalsound} the characteristics I talk about, we have reliability, we have comfort, we have ergonomics, we have environmentally s sensitive. Uh and the corporation, we're talking about {disfmarker} we're we're a new we're a new company. We're wanting to make a name for ourself. We're wanting you to uh find our product so we're gonna give you a good product at a

Summarize the whole meeting.

The group mainly talked about the detailed design of the product at this meeting. First, the industrial designer introduced the function design of the product. It had not only some basic functions, but also the locator function and provided users with a revolutionary way of zapping. Later, the group went on to check the controller's paging ability and talked about more details on buttons. Next, the marketing expert mentioned three things making the product marketable and one possible drawback of the product. Besides, the marketing recommended making it upgradable but the project manager pointed out the risk of doing that. When evaluating the cost of the product, the group discussed some details of the components and made some adjustments. They finally got an estimate of fifteen point eight Euros, which was within the budget. In the end, they did some self-assessment and celebrated the completion of the project.

important thing I was uh yeah thinking about is the speech uh option. We were going to use that.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. So um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah um yeah that's one thing uh which I'm not sure uh of how to implement it uh into the remote control.Project Manager: Well the visual representation is not there with speechIndustrial Designer: DesignUser Interface: No okay but it has to be combined with with the menu uh for functions and {disfmarker}Project Manager: but you can {disfmarker} Yeah. Just {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: So okay.Project Manager: I think you can just uh match the speech commands with the functions that are already present.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So I don't think you have to design anything else for that.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Yeah with the programme.User Interface: But do uh j do we uh do the speech just for the basic options, for the simple buttonsProject Manager: Both.User Interface: For for everything,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: also for the advanced options Okay. Uh we have this {gap} very uh basic uh trendy design. Everybody says it so that's what's uh {disfmarker} yeah um {disfmarker} Yeah in the in the last uh meeting we uh we were yeah putting the the simple and the advanced options separated. That's yeah obvious. Um yeah. Pressing the the menu option uh will disable uh all other options on your uh remote control. And only the the L_C_D_ panel will uh light up and then you can only uh change the yeah the options.Marketing: And and the and the buttons that you need to control it, I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. Um yeah design has to be very attractive but that's your your op your {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} you have to uh delete this but this is you can use other dimensions for pressing the the buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah. As well. You can make a trigger button or something like that.User Interface: Yeah. Something to shoot at your television {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah or that that is the confirmation button or something,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: that you scroll with your thumb, with the arrows, and then confirm.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: That would be a nice way to use it but {disfmarker} I mean, yeah, I'm thinking big already, and we need something that well that {gap} that you can able to use in one hand I think.Project Manager: Different. Stands out. Or {disfmarker} Oh yeah a one hand uh solution.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So from top view it looks kinda like this. But from the side you you can have it also in a kind of shape.Project Manager: {gap} can turn it maybe.Marketing: Maybe because the the screen is on top you can have {disfmarker}Project Manager: To switch from buttons to interface hmm. If you turn it a little. {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Maybe you can c have this kind of shape. A little upwards. So that the screen is moreProject Manager: Oh yeah. Least you can easily see it.Marketing: towards yourself, so you can easily see your screen.Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker}Marketing: Well well you have it in your hand so it's a kind of an angle from your eyes to the screen. So then you have double double curved in some way. So this this is so the screen is positioned over here.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Oh. Something like that. And the buttons are more, well it's very thick now but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean.Marketing: That's uh that's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about we do a uh a pop-up about a red uh red LEDs and blue LEDs and {disfmarker}Project Manager:'Cause you have to print on them {disfmarker} you have a backgroundMarketing: No that's that's too busy I guess.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Each number is transparent.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh partly but you have to print on the number. Or the the sign.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So you can't {gap} change the colour so {disfmarker}Marketing: You better bet better better keep the LED and the button itself in the same colour I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: So just an extraProject Manager: Bit of light.Industrial Designer: You can {disfmarker}Marketing: bit of light and attention.Project Manager: Bit of feedback.Industrial Designer: what we should do I think is is make kind of a see-through plastic button, with uh one coloured LED behind it.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that the whole button will shineProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: as the colour the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And if you think about easy to use buttons, we have to, well we have to make it the shape so that it's easy to hold f for both hands,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but also that you can reach the buttons with your thumb, if you hold the machine.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay with {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Don't mean to discourage you but {disfmarker} uh basically you two are going to work on the smartboard. Next thirty minutes to design something so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah, right.Marketing: Alright.Project Manager: And the {disfmarker} You will do the evaluation.Marketing: Of the productProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Which we don't have yet.Project Manager: Yeah uh about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So wh how should I do thatProject Manager: Yeah I don't know. {vocalsound} You probably get a mail.Marketing: Oh okay. Or you you or you send it to uh some flashing standby lightsMarketing: Like {disfmarker} {vocalsound}. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Like you have on the Samsung, well I don't like to call brands phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} the you know that {disfmarker} {vocalsound}'cause I remember from one of our first meetings that uh people lose their uh remote controls often.Marketing: YeahIndustrial Designer: So it {disfmarker} not not only in in the colours {vocalsound} of the LEDs, that we want something to keep it visible at all times, or {disfmarker}Marketing: How do you meanProject Manager: Yeah if you if flashing colour so you can't lose it, basically.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Some some {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah. Exactly.Project Manager: Well I think it's a bit too much but {disfmarker}User Interface: Maybe a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah an orange. Well alright well this is more like purple I guess,Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah.Marketing: but {disfmarker} it's should be more real dark blue, so the contrast with the with the fruit objects is uh pretty high.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So uh yeah. That would be a nice uh nice device I guess.User Interface: And which which colour should uh should I give the the display Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: WhoUser Interface: Or {disfmarker}Marketing: I mean, the the colour of the background of the displayUser Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Ah well I don't guess it s has to be a sixty uh sixty six {vocalsound} five thousand uh colour, so yeah too expensive.Project Manager: And then you can use yellow or semething. Why not {vocalsound} Aye.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: So just just a {vocalsound} a blue blue backlight or something like that.User Interface: Mm. Yeah.Marketing: Green is too old-fashioned. But blue, blue's okay. JIndustrial Designer: As long as you loo {vocalsound} use uh high contrast between the the background and the foreground colour.User Interface: YeahProject Manager: Like Manager: Uh the case would be doubly curved. So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And rubber. Rubber material.Marketing: Rubber material.Project Manager: Rubber material. And that's the only thing we have left.Industrial Designer: Yeah we need the the chip on print to be able to support the the screen and uh and f audio function.Project Manager: Oh okay. No it's easy. {vocalsound}Marketing: So that's uh {disfmarker} is that is that the advanced chip {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: Advanced chip. Okay.Industrial Designer: Otherwise you would have a simple chip, just for pressing buttons. But we need more.Marketing: Wow. Yeah. Alright.Industrial Designer: I'm just thinking, this is not my department, but I I'm not sure what this is gonna cost,Marketing: Kinetic. Double curved.Project Manager: Too {gap}.Industrial Designer: to be able to mProject Manager: Uh I didn't get any info on this. So {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: So'cause we need to sell it for twenty five Euro a piece.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: That's gonna be difficult huhMarketing: The cost of making it should be twelve and a halfProject Manager: I have total here.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah I don't know.Industrial Designer: Yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: I didn't get any information about that so {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap}. We're going to produce it in uh China so it's no problem.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Child labour man, we love it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, so it's cheap.Project Manager: Who doesn't. Uh let's see. Is there a new thingMarketing: Um well the interface type supplements.Project Manager: Yeah the interface, maybe can {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh it's it's quite difficult because we we haven't got all the options uh {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Ooh. No. Uh do you have a picture of doubly curved case And could you put that in the group folder Of the project folder.Industrial Designer:

Summarize the personal presentations on the appearance design, the speak recognition system and the ideal materials of the remote control.

According to the Marketing, the drawback of the existing remote controls was that they were not so good-looking, so their conceptual remote control would be with an appealing and bright color. The Industrial Designer laid his emphasis on the materials that he would not like the remote control to be made in a too formal way, like those the elders were using. As for the User Interface, he proposed to add a speak recognition system onto the remote control in order to make it able to function once it received the user's voice instruction.

important thing I was uh yeah thinking about is the speech uh option. We were going to use that.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. So um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah um yeah that's one thing uh which I'm not sure uh of how to implement it uh into the remote control.Project Manager: Well the visual representation is not there with speechIndustrial Designer: DesignUser Interface: No okay but it has to be combined with with the menu uh for functions and {disfmarker}Project Manager: but you can {disfmarker} Yeah. Just {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: So okay.Project Manager: I think you can just uh match the speech commands with the functions that are already present.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So I don't think you have to design anything else for that.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Yeah with the programme.User Interface: But do uh j do we uh do the speech just for the basic options, for the simple buttonsProject Manager: Both.User Interface: For for everything,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: also for the advanced options Okay. Uh we have this {gap} very uh basic uh trendy design. Everybody says it so that's what's uh {disfmarker} yeah um {disfmarker} Yeah in the in the last uh meeting we uh we were yeah putting the the simple and the advanced options separated. That's yeah obvious. Um yeah. Pressing the the menu option uh will disable uh all other options on your uh remote control. And only the the L_C_D_ panel will uh light up and then you can only uh change the yeah the options.Marketing: And and the and the buttons that you need to control it, I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. Um yeah design has to be very attractive but that's your your op your {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} you have to uh delete this but this is you can use other dimensions for pressing the the buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah. As well. You can make a trigger button or something like that.User Interface: Yeah. Something to shoot at your television {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah or that that is the confirmation button or something,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: that you scroll with your thumb, with the arrows, and then confirm.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: That would be a nice way to use it but {disfmarker} I mean, yeah, I'm thinking big already, and we need something that well that {gap} that you can able to use in one hand I think.Project Manager: Different. Stands out. Or {disfmarker} Oh yeah a one hand uh solution.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So from top view it looks kinda like this. But from the side you you can have it also in a kind of shape.Project Manager: {gap} can turn it maybe.Marketing: Maybe because the the screen is on top you can have {disfmarker}Project Manager: To switch from buttons to interface hmm. If you turn it a little. {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Maybe you can c have this kind of shape. A little upwards. So that the screen is moreProject Manager: Oh yeah. Least you can easily see it.Marketing: towards yourself, so you can easily see your screen.Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker}Marketing: Well well you have it in your hand so it's a kind of an angle from your eyes to the screen. So then you have double double curved in some way. So this this is so the screen is positioned over here.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Oh. Something like that. And the buttons are more, well it's very thick now but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean.Marketing: That's uh that's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about we do a uh a pop-up about a red uh red LEDs and blue LEDs and {disfmarker}Project Manager:'Cause you have to print on them {disfmarker} you have a backgroundMarketing: No that's that's too busy I guess.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Each number is transparent.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh partly but you have to print on the number. Or the the sign.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So you can't {gap} change the colour so {disfmarker}Marketing: You better bet better better keep the LED and the button itself in the same colour I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: So just an extraProject Manager: Bit of light.Industrial Designer: You can {disfmarker}Marketing: bit of light and attention.Project Manager: Bit of feedback.Industrial Designer: what we should do I think is is make kind of a see-through plastic button, with uh one coloured LED behind it.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that the whole button will shineProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: as the colour the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And if you think about easy to use buttons, we have to, well we have to make it the shape so that it's easy to hold f for both hands,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but also that you can reach the buttons with your thumb, if you hold the machine.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay with {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Don't mean to discourage you but {disfmarker} uh basically you two are going to work on the smartboard. Next thirty minutes to design something so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah, right.Marketing: Alright.Project Manager: And the {disfmarker} You will do the evaluation.Marketing: Of the productProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Which we don't have yet.Project Manager: Yeah uh about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So wh how should I do thatProject Manager: Yeah I don't know. {vocalsound} You probably get a mail.Marketing: Oh okay. Or you you or you send it to it.User Interface: No no no no. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You know kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah so okay we should better choose one sh one shape.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But that's the kind of the idea,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And then you can {disfmarker}Marketing: so it lays good in the hand, and then on on the side with with your thumb,Industrial Designer: You can place the screen here, which can come {gap}.Marketing: you you can you can use,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: yeah, you can use the button option {disfmarker}Project Manager: So the keywords are primary co colours, spongeyIndustrial Designer: And {disfmarker} but then I w I would {disfmarker}Marketing: Spongey.Industrial Designer: I would do the arrows here, kind of thing.Marketing: Spongey can be reached by means of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Those buttons And the simple buttons here,User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: so that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. And and the and the control thngs in the middle The the the arrowsIndustrial Designer: I Uh y eah that's what I mean.User Interface: No the arrow's over here.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: The arrows over here,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and here the s simple uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah and then numbers.Project Manager: Buttons. Okay.Marketing: Yeah. Alright.Project Manager: I think that uh it's a nice design.Marketing: Uh pretty nice design. Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's cool. {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah it looks uh pretty fancy.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {gap} or do we wanna make its shape look like a banana or somethingUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I dunno.Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah that's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh bananas {gap} wierd shape and other fruits also,Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: so it's better to have um some sort of basic print and then a fruit print in some primary uh colours.Industrial Designer: Yeah we could make {disfmarker}Marketing: I don't know what what expect that to be a problem. And the third development um is that the remote control should be easy to use. Um {disfmarker} Well the first aspect uh was twice as important as the second aspect, w which was twice as important as the third aspect.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So um that kind of gets you this ratios. So fancy look-and-feel uh is the most important uh point of attention.Project Manager: {gap}.Marketing: Uh so the fruits and vegetables in combination with the spongey material. Um well technolog technological innovation, we've covered that pretty much I guess. Um and easy to use, I don't think that will be problem. So my point of attention is especially this part.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: That this will be a crux. So that was the marketing uh presentation. I had only one document left.Industrial Designer: And shall I go firstUser Interface: Yeah. No. I I don't mi I don't mind.Industrial Designer: So I {disfmarker}User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah yeah sure. No.Marketing: So kind of this {disfmarker}User Interface: Do you want to go first Okay.Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: {vocalsound} So a k a small example.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: Kind of this this look.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh nothing about the buttons but just sponge kind of thing, and and some fruit and coloursUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I dunno. {vocalsound} Just made a quick design.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Cool. {vocalsound} Yeah you're just the user interface hmmUser Interface: It's better than than my uh drawing. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Alright.Marketing: Alright. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah okay but I have to design the {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Uh components.Project Manager: Yeah layout.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah okay.Industrial Designer: Oh no.Marketing: Yeah. It's okay.Project Manager: You probably opened it.Industrial Designer: Yeah true. Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ five.Marketing: F_ five.Industrial Designer: Alright. So {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'm dealing

What did the Marketing think of the materials when giving personal presentations on the appearance design, the speak recognition system and the ideal materials of the remote control

The Marketing proposed to use titanium as the material of the front side of the remote control for that it would look strong but not be so hard to handle. However, he went on to point out the problem that the color would be dark, which meant that it might not cater for the youth's tastes. Thus they might not use the titanium as the main material.

What do {disfmarker} {gap} don't have to draw it exactly do weUser Interface: No it's it's uh it's okay.Industrial Designer: Wait. Let me try it one more time. Maybe I've uh {disfmarker} it's easier if I draw it in once. Okay, of course it will become way more ugly. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} You can make it m larger. Maybe it's easier to to draw uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah. This'll take forever. It's fun to work with this pen.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um so, larger.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: Yeah that's that's the basic idea. Yeah.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Wrong one.Industrial Designer: yeah. So side.Project Manager: Five minutes left before the meeting ends.Industrial Designer:'Kay. Um other viewsProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright.User Interface: Yeah only if you are going to put buttons on the side of the unit.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: That's the question.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} Let's fill i fill in the buttons later.Marketing: But we we {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So this is gonna be from theMarketing: I is it {disfmarker} if if this is from the side {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: uh from {vocalsound}User Interface: From the {disfmarker}Marketing: woah. Steady.Industrial Designer: yeah yeah. Sorry.Marketing: Because there the screen goes up like that rightIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So then it's like this,Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: or {disfmarker} that's not convenient because then you have the screen like this and look like the {disfmarker} it's better to have it somewhat like this. Or does it flip all the wayUser Interface: Yeah I'm I'm {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The the idea is that it has to flip up to here.User Interface: May maybe it's it's easier to to integrate the the the L_C_D_ screen just into this this bubble. Because it do doesn't have to flip then.Industrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: Because we have en enough space for for you can use other dimensions for pressing the the buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah. As well. You can make a trigger button or something like that.User Interface: Yeah. Something to shoot at your television {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah or that that is the confirmation button or something,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: that you scroll with your thumb, with the arrows, and then confirm.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: That would be a nice way to use it but {disfmarker} I mean, yeah, I'm thinking big already, and we need something that well that {gap} that you can able to use in one hand I think.Project Manager: Different. Stands out. Or {disfmarker} Oh yeah a one hand uh solution.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So from top view it looks kinda like this. But from the side you you can have it also in a kind of shape.Project Manager: {gap} can turn it maybe.Marketing: Maybe because the the screen is on top you can have {disfmarker}Project Manager: To switch from buttons to interface hmm. If you turn it a little. {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Maybe you can c have this kind of shape. A little upwards. So that the screen is moreProject Manager: Oh yeah. Least you can easily see it.Marketing: towards yourself, so you can easily see your screen.Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker}Marketing: Well well you have it in your hand so it's a kind of an angle from your eyes to the screen. So then you have double double curved in some way. So this this is so the screen is positioned over here.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Oh. Something like that. And the buttons are more, well it's very thick now but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean.Marketing: That's uh that's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about we do a uh a pop-up important thing I was uh yeah thinking about is the speech uh option. We were going to use that.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. So um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah um yeah that's one thing uh which I'm not sure uh of how to implement it uh into the remote control.Project Manager: Well the visual representation is not there with speechIndustrial Designer: DesignUser Interface: No okay but it has to be combined with with the menu uh for functions and {disfmarker}Project Manager: but you can {disfmarker} Yeah. Just {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: So okay.Project Manager: I think you can just uh match the speech commands with the functions that are already present.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So I don't think you have to design anything else for that.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Yeah with the programme.User Interface: But do uh j do we uh do the speech just for the basic options, for the simple buttonsProject Manager: Both.User Interface: For for everything,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: also for the advanced options Okay. Uh we have this {gap} very uh basic uh trendy design. Everybody says it so that's what's uh {disfmarker} yeah um {disfmarker} Yeah in the in the last uh meeting we uh we were yeah putting the the simple and the advanced options separated. That's yeah obvious. Um yeah. Pressing the the menu option uh will disable uh all other options on your uh remote control. And only the the L_C_D_ panel will uh light up and then you can only uh change the yeah the options.Marketing: And and the and the buttons that you need to control it, I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. Um yeah design has to be very attractive but that's your your op your {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} you have to uh delete this but this is it.User Interface: No no no no. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: You know kind of thing.Marketing: Yeah so okay we should better choose one sh one shape.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But that's the kind of the idea,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And then you can {disfmarker}Marketing: so it lays good in the hand, and then on on the side with with your thumb,Industrial Designer: You can place the screen here, which can come {gap}.Marketing: you you can you can use,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: yeah, you can use the button option {disfmarker}Project Manager: So the keywords are primary co colours, spongeyIndustrial Designer: And {disfmarker} but then I w I would {disfmarker}Marketing: Spongey.Industrial Designer: I would do the arrows here, kind of thing.Marketing: Spongey can be reached by means of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Those buttons And the simple buttons here,User Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: so that {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. And and the and the control thngs in the middle The the the arrowsIndustrial Designer: I Uh y eah that's what I mean.User Interface: No the arrow's over here.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: The arrows over here,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and here the s simple uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah and then numbers.Project Manager: Buttons. Okay.Marketing: Yeah. Alright.Project Manager: I think that uh it's a nice design.Marketing: Uh pretty nice design. Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} It's cool. {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah it looks uh pretty fancy.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {gap} or do we wanna make its shape look like a banana or somethingUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I dunno.Marketing: {vocalsound} {gap}.Project Manager: Yeah that's {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Uh bananas {gap} wierd shape and other fruits also,Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: so it's better to have um some sort of basic print and then a fruit print in some primary uh colours.Industrial Designer: Yeah we could make {disfmarker}Marketing: I don't know what what about a red uh red LEDs and blue LEDs and {disfmarker}Project Manager:'Cause you have to print on them {disfmarker} you have a backgroundMarketing: No that's that's too busy I guess.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Each number is transparent.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh partly but you have to print on the number. Or the the sign.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So you can't {gap} change the colour so {disfmarker}Marketing: You better bet better better keep the LED and the button itself in the same colour I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: So just an extraProject Manager: Bit of light.Industrial Designer: You can {disfmarker}Marketing: bit of light and attention.Project Manager: Bit of feedback.Industrial Designer: what we should do I think is is make kind of a see-through plastic button, with uh one coloured LED behind it.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that the whole button will shineProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: as the colour the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And if you think about easy to use buttons, we have to, well we have to make it the shape so that it's easy to hold f for both hands,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but also that you can reach the buttons with your thumb, if you hold the machine.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay with {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Don't mean to discourage you but {disfmarker} uh basically you two are going to work on the smartboard. Next thirty minutes to design something so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah, right.Marketing: Alright.Project Manager: And the {disfmarker} You will do the evaluation.Marketing: Of the productProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Which we don't have yet.Project Manager: Yeah uh about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So wh how should I do thatProject Manager: Yeah I don't know. {vocalsound} You probably get a mail.Marketing: Oh okay. Or you you or you send it to

What did the Industrial Designer recommend to do when discussing personal presentations on the appearance design, the speak recognition system and the ideal materials of the remote control

In order to meet with the annual trend of fruity elements, the Industrial Designer suggested making the remote control in a banana shape. For one thing, it would be related to the annual fashion trend and for another, the yellow color would satisfy the youth. However, in case the banana shape would be out of fashion next year, it might not be a perfect solution.

you can use other dimensions for pressing the the buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah. As well. You can make a trigger button or something like that.User Interface: Yeah. Something to shoot at your television {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah or that that is the confirmation button or something,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: that you scroll with your thumb, with the arrows, and then confirm.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: That would be a nice way to use it but {disfmarker} I mean, yeah, I'm thinking big already, and we need something that well that {gap} that you can able to use in one hand I think.Project Manager: Different. Stands out. Or {disfmarker} Oh yeah a one hand uh solution.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So from top view it looks kinda like this. But from the side you you can have it also in a kind of shape.Project Manager: {gap} can turn it maybe.Marketing: Maybe because the the screen is on top you can have {disfmarker}Project Manager: To switch from buttons to interface hmm. If you turn it a little. {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Maybe you can c have this kind of shape. A little upwards. So that the screen is moreProject Manager: Oh yeah. Least you can easily see it.Marketing: towards yourself, so you can easily see your screen.Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker}Marketing: Well well you have it in your hand so it's a kind of an angle from your eyes to the screen. So then you have double double curved in some way. So this this is so the screen is positioned over here.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Oh. Something like that. And the buttons are more, well it's very thick now but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean.Marketing: That's uh that's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about we do a uh a pop-up important thing I was uh yeah thinking about is the speech uh option. We were going to use that.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. So um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah um yeah that's one thing uh which I'm not sure uh of how to implement it uh into the remote control.Project Manager: Well the visual representation is not there with speechIndustrial Designer: DesignUser Interface: No okay but it has to be combined with with the menu uh for functions and {disfmarker}Project Manager: but you can {disfmarker} Yeah. Just {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: So okay.Project Manager: I think you can just uh match the speech commands with the functions that are already present.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So I don't think you have to design anything else for that.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Yeah with the programme.User Interface: But do uh j do we uh do the speech just for the basic options, for the simple buttonsProject Manager: Both.User Interface: For for everything,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: also for the advanced options Okay. Uh we have this {gap} very uh basic uh trendy design. Everybody says it so that's what's uh {disfmarker} yeah um {disfmarker} Yeah in the in the last uh meeting we uh we were yeah putting the the simple and the advanced options separated. That's yeah obvious. Um yeah. Pressing the the menu option uh will disable uh all other options on your uh remote control. And only the the L_C_D_ panel will uh light up and then you can only uh change the yeah the options.Marketing: And and the and the buttons that you need to control it, I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. Um yeah design has to be very attractive but that's your your op your {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} you have to uh delete this but this is uh some flashing standby lightsMarketing: Like {disfmarker} {vocalsound}. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Like you have on the Samsung, well I don't like to call brands phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} the you know that {disfmarker} {vocalsound}'cause I remember from one of our first meetings that uh people lose their uh remote controls often.Marketing: YeahIndustrial Designer: So it {disfmarker} not not only in in the colours {vocalsound} of the LEDs, that we want something to keep it visible at all times, or {disfmarker}Marketing: How do you meanProject Manager: Yeah if you if flashing colour so you can't lose it, basically.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Some some {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah. Exactly.Project Manager: Well I think it's a bit too much but {disfmarker}User Interface: Maybe a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah an orange. Well alright well this is more like purple I guess,Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah.Marketing: but {disfmarker} it's should be more real dark blue, so the contrast with the with the fruit objects is uh pretty high.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So uh yeah. That would be a nice uh nice device I guess.User Interface: And which which colour should uh should I give the the display Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: WhoUser Interface: Or {disfmarker}Marketing: I mean, the the colour of the background of the displayUser Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Ah well I don't guess it s has to be a sixty uh sixty six {vocalsound} five thousand uh colour, so yeah too expensive.Project Manager: And then you can use yellow or semething. Why not {vocalsound} Aye.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: So just just a {vocalsound} a blue blue backlight or something like that.User Interface: Mm. Yeah.Marketing: Green is too old-fashioned. But blue, blue's okay. JIndustrial Designer: As long as you loo {vocalsound} use uh high contrast between the the background and the foreground colour.User Interface: YeahProject Manager: Like about a red uh red LEDs and blue LEDs and {disfmarker}Project Manager:'Cause you have to print on them {disfmarker} you have a backgroundMarketing: No that's that's too busy I guess.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Each number is transparent.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh partly but you have to print on the number. Or the the sign.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So you can't {gap} change the colour so {disfmarker}Marketing: You better bet better better keep the LED and the button itself in the same colour I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: So just an extraProject Manager: Bit of light.Industrial Designer: You can {disfmarker}Marketing: bit of light and attention.Project Manager: Bit of feedback.Industrial Designer: what we should do I think is is make kind of a see-through plastic button, with uh one coloured LED behind it.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that the whole button will shineProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: as the colour the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And if you think about easy to use buttons, we have to, well we have to make it the shape so that it's easy to hold f for both hands,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but also that you can reach the buttons with your thumb, if you hold the machine.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay with {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Don't mean to discourage you but {disfmarker} uh basically you two are going to work on the smartboard. Next thirty minutes to design something so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah, right.Marketing: Alright.Project Manager: And the {disfmarker} You will do the evaluation.Marketing: Of the productProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Which we don't have yet.Project Manager: Yeah uh about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So wh how should I do thatProject Manager: Yeah I don't know. {vocalsound} You probably get a mail.Marketing: Oh okay. Or you you or you send it to Uh we have again three presentations and then we have to decide on what concepts the mobile phone has to uh {disfmarker} f the remote control has to support.Industrial Designer: ThiProject Manager: So who wants go.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yes.Project Manager: YesIndustrial Designer: Who wants to startMarketing: Me first again or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah sure. Doesn't matter.User Interface: Oh. No. Yeah. No problemMarketing: yeah. Alright. Did you open it already or {disfmarker}Project Manager: No.Marketing: no. Ah. Ah. Yes. So welcome to the marketing presentation once again. Um this time about trendwatching. {vocalsound} Uh well there has been inv investigation again, in the in the remote control market. Uh it shows a number of developments. Uh I will address them uh in a moment. Um fashion watch watchers uh have detected the trends for young public, because that's our public. Um well fruit and vegetables will be will be the most important theme for clothing, uh shoes and furniture. And the feel of the material is expected to be spongey. So um the developments I will address them {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: oh yeah well this is the fruit and vegetables looks of fresh bright colours. So to give you an idea. Um well the developments Uh development one. {vocalsound} Uh well most important aspect for remote control happens to be a fancy look-and-feel. Instead of the current uh functional look-and-feel. Um well fancy stands for an original look-and-feel of the case and the interface. And the second most important aspect is that a remote control should be technological uh innovative. Um well it stands for the use of technical features that do not exist in current remote controls. I think we pretty much covered that with our screen and um and speech recognition,Industrial Designer: Sound. Yeah yeah uh uh.Marketing: so I don't

What did the group talk about the shape, the color and the front buttons of the remote control

As to cater to the fashion trend, the group decided to put the remote control in a fruity shape and a bright lovely color. Then in order to make their product both good-looking and comfortable to hold, they reached the agreement that the front side of the remote control would be made of plastic while the back would be made of titanium. The group also spent some time on the internal design of the product, for example, the chip would be made of silicon and electrical cable would be just the same as other counterparts.

important thing I was uh yeah thinking about is the speech uh option. We were going to use that.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. So um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah um yeah that's one thing uh which I'm not sure uh of how to implement it uh into the remote control.Project Manager: Well the visual representation is not there with speechIndustrial Designer: DesignUser Interface: No okay but it has to be combined with with the menu uh for functions and {disfmarker}Project Manager: but you can {disfmarker} Yeah. Just {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: So okay.Project Manager: I think you can just uh match the speech commands with the functions that are already present.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So I don't think you have to design anything else for that.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Yeah with the programme.User Interface: But do uh j do we uh do the speech just for the basic options, for the simple buttonsProject Manager: Both.User Interface: For for everything,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: also for the advanced options Okay. Uh we have this {gap} very uh basic uh trendy design. Everybody says it so that's what's uh {disfmarker} yeah um {disfmarker} Yeah in the in the last uh meeting we uh we were yeah putting the the simple and the advanced options separated. That's yeah obvious. Um yeah. Pressing the the menu option uh will disable uh all other options on your uh remote control. And only the the L_C_D_ panel will uh light up and then you can only uh change the yeah the options.Marketing: And and the and the buttons that you need to control it, I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. Um yeah design has to be very attractive but that's your your op your {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} you have to uh delete this but this is you can use other dimensions for pressing the the buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah. As well. You can make a trigger button or something like that.User Interface: Yeah. Something to shoot at your television {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah or that that is the confirmation button or something,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: that you scroll with your thumb, with the arrows, and then confirm.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: That would be a nice way to use it but {disfmarker} I mean, yeah, I'm thinking big already, and we need something that well that {gap} that you can able to use in one hand I think.Project Manager: Different. Stands out. Or {disfmarker} Oh yeah a one hand uh solution.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So from top view it looks kinda like this. But from the side you you can have it also in a kind of shape.Project Manager: {gap} can turn it maybe.Marketing: Maybe because the the screen is on top you can have {disfmarker}Project Manager: To switch from buttons to interface hmm. If you turn it a little. {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Maybe you can c have this kind of shape. A little upwards. So that the screen is moreProject Manager: Oh yeah. Least you can easily see it.Marketing: towards yourself, so you can easily see your screen.Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker}Marketing: Well well you have it in your hand so it's a kind of an angle from your eyes to the screen. So then you have double double curved in some way. So this this is so the screen is positioned over here.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Oh. Something like that. And the buttons are more, well it's very thick now but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean.Marketing: That's uh that's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about we do a uh a pop-up uh some flashing standby lightsMarketing: Like {disfmarker} {vocalsound}. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Like you have on the Samsung, well I don't like to call brands phones,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} the you know that {disfmarker} {vocalsound}'cause I remember from one of our first meetings that uh people lose their uh remote controls often.Marketing: YeahIndustrial Designer: So it {disfmarker} not not only in in the colours {vocalsound} of the LEDs, that we want something to keep it visible at all times, or {disfmarker}Marketing: How do you meanProject Manager: Yeah if you if flashing colour so you can't lose it, basically.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Some some {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah. Exactly.Project Manager: Well I think it's a bit too much but {disfmarker}User Interface: Maybe a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah an orange. Well alright well this is more like purple I guess,Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah.Marketing: but {disfmarker} it's should be more real dark blue, so the contrast with the with the fruit objects is uh pretty high.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So uh yeah. That would be a nice uh nice device I guess.User Interface: And which which colour should uh should I give the the display Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: WhoUser Interface: Or {disfmarker}Marketing: I mean, the the colour of the background of the displayUser Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Ah well I don't guess it s has to be a sixty uh sixty six {vocalsound} five thousand uh colour, so yeah too expensive.Project Manager: And then you can use yellow or semething. Why not {vocalsound} Aye.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: So just just a {vocalsound} a blue blue backlight or something like that.User Interface: Mm. Yeah.Marketing: Green is too old-fashioned. But blue, blue's okay. JIndustrial Designer: As long as you loo {vocalsound} use uh high contrast between the the background and the foreground colour.User Interface: YeahProject Manager: Like button also because when you flip it open {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: and you can maybe even drop the menu button because maybe if you flip it open it will auto activate amauto uh uh automatically.Industrial Designer: Oh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Activate and th the {disfmarker} yeah.Marketing: So {disfmarker} okay b but you have t you need some button to flip this open.Project Manager: Why You could just make it mechanical.Industrial Designer: True. True. But you can make a, yeah, you can make a trigger here. You know a simple uh {disfmarker} with a {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} Yeah and it says menu and it flips open and then you have the buttons to control it, in combination with your {disfmarker}User Interface: That's {disfmarker} but it's it's notIndustrial Designer: Yeah. Exactly.User Interface: it's not very uh very strong uh {disfmarker} yeah if you drop it one time {gap}.Marketing: True. It uh c it can go open.Industrial Designer: Well yeah the the idea of it was, is that because you close it, you cover the L_C_D_ screen and it won't be vulnerable to scratches or whatever.Project Manager: If you cover it with rubber. Mm.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: An adv an adv and it will be covered in some kind of uh thin rubber layer or something like that.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So it can bounce.Industrial Designer: Exactly. Exactly. We just have to make sure that the closing mechanism won't break.Marketing: Yeah, uh {disfmarker} It's very no it's very strong.Industrial Designer: Th it's very solid yeah.Project Manager: Yeah okay so that that may work.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: That actually will offer some extra protection for the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay but then we still have the the the thing of the the the shape. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: What kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: about a red uh red LEDs and blue LEDs and {disfmarker}Project Manager:'Cause you have to print on them {disfmarker} you have a backgroundMarketing: No that's that's too busy I guess.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Each number is transparent.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh partly but you have to print on the number. Or the the sign.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So you can't {gap} change the colour so {disfmarker}Marketing: You better bet better better keep the LED and the button itself in the same colour I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: So just an extraProject Manager: Bit of light.Industrial Designer: You can {disfmarker}Marketing: bit of light and attention.Project Manager: Bit of feedback.Industrial Designer: what we should do I think is is make kind of a see-through plastic button, with uh one coloured LED behind it.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that the whole button will shineProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: as the colour the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And if you think about easy to use buttons, we have to, well we have to make it the shape so that it's easy to hold f for both hands,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but also that you can reach the buttons with your thumb, if you hold the machine.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay with {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Don't mean to discourage you but {disfmarker} uh basically you two are going to work on the smartboard. Next thirty minutes to design something so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah, right.Marketing: Alright.Project Manager: And the {disfmarker} You will do the evaluation.Marketing: Of the productProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Which we don't have yet.Project Manager: Yeah uh about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So wh how should I do thatProject Manager: Yeah I don't know. {vocalsound} You probably get a mail.Marketing: Oh okay. Or you you or you send it to

Why did the Marketing disagree with the Industrial Designer when discussing the shape, the color and the front buttons of the remote control

While discussing the button layout, the group found that some of the elements could not be removable on the remote control, so the Industrial Designer proposed to make those elements with titanium and other things with plastic. However, the Marketing did not agree with this because he thought the plastic would not make the remote control look strong or be satisfactory to be held in hand.

important thing I was uh yeah thinking about is the speech uh option. We were going to use that.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. So um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Yeah um yeah that's one thing uh which I'm not sure uh of how to implement it uh into the remote control.Project Manager: Well the visual representation is not there with speechIndustrial Designer: DesignUser Interface: No okay but it has to be combined with with the menu uh for functions and {disfmarker}Project Manager: but you can {disfmarker} Yeah. Just {disfmarker} yeah.User Interface: So okay.Project Manager: I think you can just uh match the speech commands with the functions that are already present.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So I don't think you have to design anything else for that.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Yeah with the programme.User Interface: But do uh j do we uh do the speech just for the basic options, for the simple buttonsProject Manager: Both.User Interface: For for everything,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: also for the advanced options Okay. Uh we have this {gap} very uh basic uh trendy design. Everybody says it so that's what's uh {disfmarker} yeah um {disfmarker} Yeah in the in the last uh meeting we uh we were yeah putting the the simple and the advanced options separated. That's yeah obvious. Um yeah. Pressing the the menu option uh will disable uh all other options on your uh remote control. And only the the L_C_D_ panel will uh light up and then you can only uh change the yeah the options.Marketing: And and the and the buttons that you need to control it, I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah. Um yeah design has to be very attractive but that's your your op your {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} {vocalsound} you have to uh delete this but this is you can use other dimensions for pressing the the buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah. As well. You can make a trigger button or something like that.User Interface: Yeah. Something to shoot at your television {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah or that that is the confirmation button or something,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: that you scroll with your thumb, with the arrows, and then confirm.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: That would be a nice way to use it but {disfmarker} I mean, yeah, I'm thinking big already, and we need something that well that {gap} that you can able to use in one hand I think.Project Manager: Different. Stands out. Or {disfmarker} Oh yeah a one hand uh solution.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So from top view it looks kinda like this. But from the side you you can have it also in a kind of shape.Project Manager: {gap} can turn it maybe.Marketing: Maybe because the the screen is on top you can have {disfmarker}Project Manager: To switch from buttons to interface hmm. If you turn it a little. {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Maybe you can c have this kind of shape. A little upwards. So that the screen is moreProject Manager: Oh yeah. Least you can easily see it.Marketing: towards yourself, so you can easily see your screen.Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker}Marketing: Well well you have it in your hand so it's a kind of an angle from your eyes to the screen. So then you have double double curved in some way. So this this is so the screen is positioned over here.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Oh. Something like that. And the buttons are more, well it's very thick now but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean.Marketing: That's uh that's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about we do a uh a pop-up about a red uh red LEDs and blue LEDs and {disfmarker}Project Manager:'Cause you have to print on them {disfmarker} you have a backgroundMarketing: No that's that's too busy I guess.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Each number is transparent.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh partly but you have to print on the number. Or the the sign.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So you can't {gap} change the colour so {disfmarker}Marketing: You better bet better better keep the LED and the button itself in the same colour I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: So just an extraProject Manager: Bit of light.Industrial Designer: You can {disfmarker}Marketing: bit of light and attention.Project Manager: Bit of feedback.Industrial Designer: what we should do I think is is make kind of a see-through plastic button, with uh one coloured LED behind it.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that the whole button will shineProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: as the colour the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And if you think about easy to use buttons, we have to, well we have to make it the shape so that it's easy to hold f for both hands,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but also that you can reach the buttons with your thumb, if you hold the machine.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay with {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Don't mean to discourage you but {disfmarker} uh basically you two are going to work on the smartboard. Next thirty minutes to design something so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah, right.Marketing: Alright.Project Manager: And the {disfmarker} You will do the evaluation.Marketing: Of the productProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Which we don't have yet.Project Manager: Yeah uh about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So wh how should I do thatProject Manager: Yeah I don't know. {vocalsound} You probably get a mail.Marketing: Oh okay. Or you you or you send it to What do {disfmarker} {gap} don't have to draw it exactly do weUser Interface: No it's it's uh it's okay.Industrial Designer: Wait. Let me try it one more time. Maybe I've uh {disfmarker} it's easier if I draw it in once. Okay, of course it will become way more ugly. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} You can make it m larger. Maybe it's easier to to draw uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah. This'll take forever. It's fun to work with this pen.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um so, larger.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: Yeah that's that's the basic idea. Yeah.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Wrong one.Industrial Designer: yeah. So side.Project Manager: Five minutes left before the meeting ends.Industrial Designer:'Kay. Um other viewsProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright.User Interface: Yeah only if you are going to put buttons on the side of the unit.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: That's the question.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} Let's fill i fill in the buttons later.Marketing: But we we {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So this is gonna be from theMarketing: I is it {disfmarker} if if this is from the side {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: uh from {vocalsound}User Interface: From the {disfmarker}Marketing: woah. Steady.Industrial Designer: yeah yeah. Sorry.Marketing: Because there the screen goes up like that rightIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So then it's like this,Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: or {disfmarker} that's not convenient because then you have the screen like this and look like the {disfmarker} it's better to have it somewhat like this. Or does it flip all the wayUser Interface: Yeah I'm I'm {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The the idea is that it has to flip up to here.User Interface: May maybe it's it's easier to to integrate the the the L_C_D_ screen just into this this bubble. Because it do doesn't have to flip then.Industrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: Because we have en enough space for for screen, like the laptop.Project Manager: If you can uh flip.Industrial Designer: So that the only the simple functions will be visible at first.Marketing: Yeah That that you can press it and then it comes up Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And then if you want {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh so you have a the the side view.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Something like that.Marketing: But then the side view can be straight. If you have a pop-up screen. But I dunno if that's too expensive.Project Manager: So and you want to be able toIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: I mean maybe it's too much {disfmarker}Project Manager: make thisIndustrial Designer: No uh like {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap}.Industrial Designer: I would draw it like this. Let's say this is the side view. That you have a a screen that will come up here, and can go down that way. If you know what I mean.User Interface: Okay. Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that it would come up like that.Project Manager: Okay so the buttons are on top here, and you flip it over that way.Industrial Designer: Yeah or {vocalsound} preferably even keep the simple buttons here, and then under the screen even you could put more more advanced buttons.Project Manager: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Right. Yeah that's good idea.Marketing: Oh the advanced buttons. Right.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} the the more advanced options were uh for the for the menu.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But you you want {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: F for the L_C_D_ menu rightUser Interface: okay. You just want to hide them allMarketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So w wProject Manager: No not all because you need most of them, the arrow buttons.User Interface: The {disfmarker} oh.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But you can hide the okay and the back uh button.User Interface: Yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: And the menu

What did the User Interface elaborate on the shape of the button

The User Interface proposed to make most of the buttons in a round shape which altogether located in a triangle. In the middle of the triangle, there would be a square button and the four buttons next to it would be respectively the channel control and the volume control, just as all the other remote controls.

you can use other dimensions for pressing the the buttons.Industrial Designer: Yeah. As well. You can make a trigger button or something like that.User Interface: Yeah. Something to shoot at your television {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah or that that is the confirmation button or something,Project Manager: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: that you scroll with your thumb, with the arrows, and then confirm.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: That would be a nice way to use it but {disfmarker} I mean, yeah, I'm thinking big already, and we need something that well that {gap} that you can able to use in one hand I think.Project Manager: Different. Stands out. Or {disfmarker} Oh yeah a one hand uh solution.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So from top view it looks kinda like this. But from the side you you can have it also in a kind of shape.Project Manager: {gap} can turn it maybe.Marketing: Maybe because the the screen is on top you can have {disfmarker}Project Manager: To switch from buttons to interface hmm. If you turn it a little. {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Maybe you can c have this kind of shape. A little upwards. So that the screen is moreProject Manager: Oh yeah. Least you can easily see it.Marketing: towards yourself, so you can easily see your screen.Industrial Designer: How about {disfmarker}Marketing: Well well you have it in your hand so it's a kind of an angle from your eyes to the screen. So then you have double double curved in some way. So this this is so the screen is positioned over here.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Oh. Something like that. And the buttons are more, well it's very thick now but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah I understand what you mean.Marketing: That's uh that's {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: How about we do a uh a pop-up screen, like the laptop.Project Manager: If you can uh flip.Industrial Designer: So that the only the simple functions will be visible at first.Marketing: Yeah That that you can press it and then it comes up Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: And then if you want {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh so you have a the the side view.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Something like that.Marketing: But then the side view can be straight. If you have a pop-up screen. But I dunno if that's too expensive.Project Manager: So and you want to be able toIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: I mean maybe it's too much {disfmarker}Project Manager: make thisIndustrial Designer: No uh like {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap}.Industrial Designer: I would draw it like this. Let's say this is the side view. That you have a a screen that will come up here, and can go down that way. If you know what I mean.User Interface: Okay. Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that it would come up like that.Project Manager: Okay so the buttons are on top here, and you flip it over that way.Industrial Designer: Yeah or {vocalsound} preferably even keep the simple buttons here, and then under the screen even you could put more more advanced buttons.Project Manager: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Right. Yeah that's good idea.Marketing: Oh the advanced buttons. Right.User Interface: That's {disfmarker} the the more advanced options were uh for the for the menu.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But you you want {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: F for the L_C_D_ menu rightUser Interface: okay. You just want to hide them allMarketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So w wProject Manager: No not all because you need most of them, the arrow buttons.User Interface: The {disfmarker} oh.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But you can hide the okay and the back uh button.User Interface: Yeah yeah yeah.Project Manager: And the menu What do {disfmarker} {gap} don't have to draw it exactly do weUser Interface: No it's it's uh it's okay.Industrial Designer: Wait. Let me try it one more time. Maybe I've uh {disfmarker} it's easier if I draw it in once. Okay, of course it will become way more ugly. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} You can make it m larger. Maybe it's easier to to draw uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah. This'll take forever. It's fun to work with this pen.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Um so, larger.Marketing: Oh.User Interface: Yeah that's that's the basic idea. Yeah.Industrial Designer: And {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Wrong one.Industrial Designer: yeah. So side.Project Manager: Five minutes left before the meeting ends.Industrial Designer:'Kay. Um other viewsProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Alright.User Interface: Yeah only if you are going to put buttons on the side of the unit.Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker}User Interface: That's the question.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} Let's fill i fill in the buttons later.Marketing: But we we {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So this is gonna be from theMarketing: I is it {disfmarker} if if this is from the side {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: uh from {vocalsound}User Interface: From the {disfmarker}Marketing: woah. Steady.Industrial Designer: yeah yeah. Sorry.Marketing: Because there the screen goes up like that rightIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So then it's like this,Industrial Designer: YeahMarketing: or {disfmarker} that's not convenient because then you have the screen like this and look like the {disfmarker} it's better to have it somewhat like this. Or does it flip all the wayUser Interface: Yeah I'm I'm {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: The the idea is that it has to flip up to here.User Interface: May maybe it's it's easier to to integrate the the the L_C_D_ screen just into this this bubble. Because it do doesn't have to flip then.Industrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: Because we have en enough space for for about a red uh red LEDs and blue LEDs and {disfmarker}Project Manager:'Cause you have to print on them {disfmarker} you have a backgroundMarketing: No that's that's too busy I guess.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Each number is transparent.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Uh partly but you have to print on the number. Or the the sign.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So you can't {gap} change the colour so {disfmarker}Marketing: You better bet better better keep the LED and the button itself in the same colour I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: So just an extraProject Manager: Bit of light.Industrial Designer: You can {disfmarker}Marketing: bit of light and attention.Project Manager: Bit of feedback.Industrial Designer: what we should do I think is is make kind of a see-through plastic button, with uh one coloured LED behind it.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that the whole button will shineProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: as the colour the {vocalsound} {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And if you think about easy to use buttons, we have to, well we have to make it the shape so that it's easy to hold f for both hands,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: but also that you can reach the buttons with your thumb, if you hold the machine.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay with {disfmarker} Uh {disfmarker} Don't mean to discourage you but {disfmarker} uh basically you two are going to work on the smartboard. Next thirty minutes to design something so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Ah, right.Marketing: Alright.Project Manager: And the {disfmarker} You will do the evaluation.Marketing: Of the productProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Which we don't have yet.Project Manager: Yeah uh about {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} So wh how should I do thatProject Manager: Yeah I don't know. {vocalsound} You probably get a mail.Marketing: Oh okay. Or you you or you send it to me. Or just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. Once they are finished. Yeah.Marketing: because you are going to design it on this board rightProject Manager: Yeah but maybe you can do the evaluation {disfmarker} you don't have to evaluate yet but you can make a procedure which to follow. I don't know.Marketing: Yeah. I I probably get instruction on that, how to do that,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: so I make another presentation I guess.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I kn I know what's gonna happen in in yeah so {disfmarker}Project Manager: About. Yeah. You have the basic idea.Marketing: I've a basic idea.Project Manager: And you two uh are going to do this. Look-and-feel and {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So we're gonna work here On this sketchboardProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Good luck.Industrial Designer: Alright. Thanks.Marketing: Yeah. Alright so that's uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I {gap} uh make new page and uh be creative.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: But we have to do it at this moment, after th this meetingIndustrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Yeah you have uhIndustrial Designer: Thirty minutes.Project Manager: thirty minutes.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Then we have to uh see something which we can uhUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: show to the management.User Interface: Ah so this is basically the what what we are thinking aboutIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: I would yeah.Industrial Designer: Shall we uh make a new uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah l let's just uh delete all these uh {disfmarker} or {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Next.Marketing: {gap}.Industrial Designer: Yeah, I just {vocalsound} make a new one.User Interface: Oh, next {gap}.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Oh and save this uh board.Industrial Designer: Alright.Project Manager: Just save it.Industrial Designer: Huh Yeah I'll just I'll just keep it there.Project Manager: Yeah okay but just press save and uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: It'll be

Summarize the whole meeting.

The meeting began with the members'personal presentations on the conceptual remote control. The Marketing would like the remote control to be with an appealing appearance and light material to attract more young consumers. The User Interface proposed to add a speak recognition system onto the remote control so that it would be able to function according to the user's instruction. After the presentations, they spent some time on the button layout and the shape of the remote control. Though the discussion was mostly smooth, they hardly reached an agreement towards the materials. At the end of the meeting, the group talked about the company features on the product, including a slogan and a logo.

for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. about what the programme's done, but really around the broader sense as well. I'm going to be very straight and say we should have made more progress on psychological therapies. I'm disappointed that we haven't. I'm assured that we've got capacity in place now and the drive in place to get the Matrics Cymru framework developed for children and young people. I've had discussions with the national psychological therapies committee, who have owned this, and we're working together more on this area. That's not to say for one minute that health boards and local areas haven't been working on psychological therapy service provision and changing the models, but that is an area we should have made, I think, earlier progress on. There's been a general reflection from myself and the Together for Children and Young People programme board over the phase of the programme. I think we started very strongly; I think we probably had a bit of a lull in the middle, if I'm truthful about that--we had a change of personnel, and we really gathered a momentum over the last year or 18 months, and that has helped to push us from a focus on specialist CAMHS into that whole-school approach. But, if I could just agree with your comments about the whole system, it has to be the whole system and that's why the real focus now on early help and enhanced support is critical. If I can just say, in case I don't get a chance to say this later, I was delighted to see the focus on youth work yesterday, because what is clear is for that part, the early help and enhanced support, this isn't just about the NHS and it's not just about education, it's about every part of the system, really, which the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good part of that. The whole-school approach element is already settled in Government and we've got a connection in to that. The question that's outstanding is where the early help and enhanced support and the neurodevelopmental will go. I am currently in discussions with Welsh Government officials around that. I can be very clear of my own view that there needs to be a confident and clear legacy arrangement for this work. We cannot afford that we've come so far for this not now to proceed. I think there's a huge momentum behind this. I don't see there would be any obstacles--I hope--in getting that commitment translated into a strong approach, as we move forward. So, I'm not in a position to say,'And the legacy arrangements will be--', but I am in a position to say that I'm having those discussions with Welsh Government officials. They know my view that we've got to put something in place that is strong and secure as we move forward, and I believe that they are supportive of that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, I think those two questions have been touched on, the remaining questions. We are going to discuss in more detail the legacy arrangements, but if I could just ask on psychological therapies: you referred to the fact that you were a bit disappointed with progress in this area, and the area hasn't been directly led on by the Together for Children and Young People programme. Do you think that means now that there is more of a threat to progress in this area, because, you know, we've got different compartmentalising of actions, and this is absolutely key, isn't it, reallyCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think there's--. There is some refinement to be done, I think, in making sure the connections

Summarize the discussion about early help and enhanced support.

The Mental Health Measure's target had increased significantly among the UK. The programme well met the demand with more contacts, more staff, and shorter access times, but it still did not completely sustain at that stage. As for intervention resources, there had been good attempts to help. As for the stakeholder workshop, it was successful support on early help and enhanced support. Finally, as for the legacy arrangements, CAMHS element would move to CAMHS network, part of the NHS mental health network.

are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, about what the programme's done, but really around the broader sense as well. I'm going to be very straight and say we should have made more progress on psychological therapies. I'm disappointed that we haven't. I'm assured that we've got capacity in place now and the drive in place to get the Matrics Cymru framework developed for children and young people. I've had discussions with the national psychological therapies committee, who have owned this, and we're working together more on this area. That's not to say for one minute that health boards and local areas haven't been working on psychological therapy service provision and changing the models, but that is an area we should have made, I think, earlier progress on. There's been a general reflection from myself and the Together for Children and Young People programme board over the phase of the programme. I think we started very strongly; I think we probably had a bit of a lull in the middle, if I'm truthful about that--we had a change of personnel, and we really gathered a momentum over the last year or 18 months, and that has helped to push us from a focus on specialist CAMHS into that whole-school approach. But, if I could just agree with your comments about the whole system, it has to be the whole system and that's why the real focus now on early help and enhanced support is critical. If I can just say, in case I don't get a chance to say this later, I was delighted to see the focus on youth work yesterday, because what is clear is for that part, the early help and enhanced support, this isn't just about the NHS and it's not just about education, it's about every part of the system, really, which part of that. The whole-school approach element is already settled in Government and we've got a connection in to that. The question that's outstanding is where the early help and enhanced support and the neurodevelopmental will go. I am currently in discussions with Welsh Government officials around that. I can be very clear of my own view that there needs to be a confident and clear legacy arrangement for this work. We cannot afford that we've come so far for this not now to proceed. I think there's a huge momentum behind this. I don't see there would be any obstacles--I hope--in getting that commitment translated into a strong approach, as we move forward. So, I'm not in a position to say,'And the legacy arrangements will be--', but I am in a position to say that I'm having those discussions with Welsh Government officials. They know my view that we've got to put something in place that is strong and secure as we move forward, and I believe that they are supportive of that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, I think those two questions have been touched on, the remaining questions. We are going to discuss in more detail the legacy arrangements, but if I could just ask on psychological therapies: you referred to the fact that you were a bit disappointed with progress in this area, and the area hasn't been directly led on by the Together for Children and Young People programme. Do you think that means now that there is more of a threat to progress in this area, because, you know, we've got different compartmentalising of actions, and this is absolutely key, isn't it, reallyCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think there's--. There is some refinement to be done, I think, in making sure the connections

What did Carol Shillabeer think about the legacy arrangements when talking about early help and enhanced support

The specialist CAMHS element would move to the CAMHS network. The whole-school approach had already been settled in the Government while the programme had constructed a relative connection.

for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, about what the programme's done, but really around the broader sense as well. I'm going to be very straight and say we should have made more progress on psychological therapies. I'm disappointed that we haven't. I'm assured that we've got capacity in place now and the drive in place to get the Matrics Cymru framework developed for children and young people. I've had discussions with the national psychological therapies committee, who have owned this, and we're working together more on this area. That's not to say for one minute that health boards and local areas haven't been working on psychological therapy service provision and changing the models, but that is an area we should have made, I think, earlier progress on. There's been a general reflection from myself and the Together for Children and Young People programme board over the phase of the programme. I think we started very strongly; I think we probably had a bit of a lull in the middle, if I'm truthful about that--we had a change of personnel, and we really gathered a momentum over the last year or 18 months, and that has helped to push us from a focus on specialist CAMHS into that whole-school approach. But, if I could just agree with your comments about the whole system, it has to be the whole system and that's why the real focus now on early help and enhanced support is critical. If I can just say, in case I don't get a chance to say this later, I was delighted to see the focus on youth work yesterday, because what is clear is for that part, the early help and enhanced support, this isn't just about the NHS and it's not just about education, it's about every part of the system, really, which I think, certainly, there is some recovery in the position in north Wales, and the programme did a peer review visit to north Wales, which I think was very helpful. In terms of where the programme has been on this issue, there is some work under way, at quite an advanced stage, around the art of the possible around enhancing the scope of the services. This was quite a tricky thing to start off when you're in a position where, actually, there've been some restrictions, to then ask the service to think about going even further, but we really wanted to see what the art of the possible would be if we could attract the right workforce, get the right environment, et cetera, et cetera--so, that piece of work, the review of the specification about what could be possible. Clearly, we work very closely with Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee as the commissioner, so we don't commission that. We neither performance manage those environments. But, if I can just say, probably the most important part of moving forward now is the longer term work between health and social care in terms of having a much more integrated and joined up approach for children. We believe there would probably be about 100 children who have experienced care in multiple settings. We haven't got that mature approach in terms of these being joined-up teams; we've got social care and we've got healthcare. There is a growing appetite to do something different. There is a meeting with the children's commissioner on 9 July to explore that. I've previously had conversations with the chief inspector of Care Inspectorate Wales, for example, and we have now got, I think, a consensus growing that we need to do something very different for children and young people are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good

What were the outcomes of stakeholder workshops on early help

The workshop brought all the agencies together, along with their demands and interests. Furthermore, there was a planning group reflection for the next stage to which three commitments had been made. First, values-led approaches were to be developed to bring multiple agencies together to have a common purpose. The second was to develop ingredients for successful working. The third was to determine the priorities of the next step.

the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. about what the programme's done, but really around the broader sense as well. I'm going to be very straight and say we should have made more progress on psychological therapies. I'm disappointed that we haven't. I'm assured that we've got capacity in place now and the drive in place to get the Matrics Cymru framework developed for children and young people. I've had discussions with the national psychological therapies committee, who have owned this, and we're working together more on this area. That's not to say for one minute that health boards and local areas haven't been working on psychological therapy service provision and changing the models, but that is an area we should have made, I think, earlier progress on. There's been a general reflection from myself and the Together for Children and Young People programme board over the phase of the programme. I think we started very strongly; I think we probably had a bit of a lull in the middle, if I'm truthful about that--we had a change of personnel, and we really gathered a momentum over the last year or 18 months, and that has helped to push us from a focus on specialist CAMHS into that whole-school approach. But, if I could just agree with your comments about the whole system, it has to be the whole system and that's why the real focus now on early help and enhanced support is critical. If I can just say, in case I don't get a chance to say this later, I was delighted to see the focus on youth work yesterday, because what is clear is for that part, the early help and enhanced support, this isn't just about the NHS and it's not just about education, it's about every part of the system, really, which are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good from the service being provided to them as a child and then just shifting it over to the adult services. It shouldn't be difficult. It's really difficult to get my head around why that is such a problem and why that needs to be so difficult.Carol Shillabeer: Can I add one other dimension in, which I think is going to be quite interesting We talk about transitions being an issue--and we know it's not just in mental health, but it's elsewhere--then you start to think,'What if we could reduce transitions', so you reduce the number of transitions and you manage them better. We are doing a piece of work with Government on the potential to explore what a 0-25-type service would be. We know that in different places they have approached that--in Australia and places in the UK. There are probably some pros and cons, but should we be moving to a 0-25. That is moving the transition at the age of 25, but at least it's not at the eighteenth birthday. What's the argument around what adolescent, young people and young adults services are, for example That piece of research and understanding--Dawn Bowden AM: You could probably have a gradual transition, then, couldn't youCarol Shillabeer: Quite potentially. I've got some people who have joined my own health board who've worked in that 0-25-type service, and we're catching up--'Tell me what was good about it Tell me what was not so good about it What did the young people themselves think about that'. Because if we can manage down the numbers of transitions, there really should be no excuse not to get transitions right, then.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. We've got some really important questions now about legacy, because throughout the session this

Summarize the discussion about neurodevelopmental service.

In terms of an increase in neurodevelopmental referrals, Hefin David wanted to know its reasons and measures. Carol Shillabeer responded with no specific idea for the reasons and an introduction of delivery progression for the measures. Being asked, Carol then talked about a broader view of group work, mentioning the limitation of threshold and focused conditions.

the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, case for consistency in the main, with local variation. There has been a case for much greater learning between organisations. If I just give you an example--you'll know that the community intensive service teams were put in place in 2015-ish. Some areas have them, but a lot of areas didn't. We do have inconsistency in that, but the consistent part is there is a service now right the way across Wales for more intensive support to children and young people and their families in their own homes, which helps to prevent admissions and then, where there are admissions, helps to support people to be at home. They're all called slightly different things. So, I might have referred in my papers to CITT, CATT, COT and CITE. So, they've all got slightly different names and they've got slightly different opening hours. The key thrust of this is that there is a backbone, if you like, of a consistent approach with that local variation. We have to check. So, things like frameworks for improvement--there is a coming together of the clinicians and the professionals to agree what that framework for improvement is. That then gets implemented, with some local variation. So, I think the process of moving in that way has been extremely helpful. There will be some variation. We want some variation, to some extent, as places try new things and evaluate new things. So, if I just refer to the previous question that I had, and I talked about hot clinics and different ways of reaching out; that's been tried in one area, been evaluated--let's see the spread of that. So, you'll know my view on internet counselling, for example; I feel that is quite a strong offer for children--not necessarily in the specialist end. If that works in one are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've got some questions now from Hefin David on neurodevelopmental services.Hefin David AM: I think, Chair, I should have declared an interest here, as my daughter has been diagnosed with autism and is currently going through the process of receiving neurodevelopmental speech and language support particularly. We're seeing an increase in neurodevelopmental referrals, and that will increase further in the future. Can you give us an explanation as to why this demand is growing and how we're going to meet capacity to deliver and for support for those childrenCarol Shillabeer: Thank you. They're very big questions in terms of'why'. I'm not sure that anyone really knows why, if I'm honest, although there is a lot of academic research going on. What we do know is that we are starting to see the scale of those referrals coming through. So, in the information provided, I refer to the NHS digital prevalence report in England, which indicates that about 5. 5 per cent of two to four-year-olds have a mental disorder. Now, that sounds a bit shocking when we say that, but that's in the international classification scaling, and, of that, certainly, 2. 5 per cent is around autism. I can just testify, in real life, that demand is absolutely growing. So, if I just take my own health board for a moment, we usually have about 75 referrals per year. Last year we had 300. So, that has felt very difficult to manage. If I can just give you a sense of what we've done so far and then what I think is next, I want to recognise the work of Dr Cath Norton and the steering group that's been established on neurodevelopmental issues under the programme. They had a standing start. They've done a lot for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units.

What did Carol Shillabeer think about how to meet the capacity to deliver when answering a question about neurodevelopmental service

Carol Shillabeer introduced Dr. Cath Norton and his group which had a standing start in addressing neurodevelopmental issues under the programme. There had been seven teams across Wales, a national pathway, and a community-of-practice-type environment.

are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. case for consistency in the main, with local variation. There has been a case for much greater learning between organisations. If I just give you an example--you'll know that the community intensive service teams were put in place in 2015-ish. Some areas have them, but a lot of areas didn't. We do have inconsistency in that, but the consistent part is there is a service now right the way across Wales for more intensive support to children and young people and their families in their own homes, which helps to prevent admissions and then, where there are admissions, helps to support people to be at home. They're all called slightly different things. So, I might have referred in my papers to CITT, CATT, COT and CITE. So, they've all got slightly different names and they've got slightly different opening hours. The key thrust of this is that there is a backbone, if you like, of a consistent approach with that local variation. We have to check. So, things like frameworks for improvement--there is a coming together of the clinicians and the professionals to agree what that framework for improvement is. That then gets implemented, with some local variation. So, I think the process of moving in that way has been extremely helpful. There will be some variation. We want some variation, to some extent, as places try new things and evaluate new things. So, if I just refer to the previous question that I had, and I talked about hot clinics and different ways of reaching out; that's been tried in one area, been evaluated--let's see the spread of that. So, you'll know my view on internet counselling, for example; I feel that is quite a strong offer for children--not necessarily in the specialist end. If that works in one Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've got some questions now from Hefin David on neurodevelopmental services.Hefin David AM: I think, Chair, I should have declared an interest here, as my daughter has been diagnosed with autism and is currently going through the process of receiving neurodevelopmental speech and language support particularly. We're seeing an increase in neurodevelopmental referrals, and that will increase further in the future. Can you give us an explanation as to why this demand is growing and how we're going to meet capacity to deliver and for support for those childrenCarol Shillabeer: Thank you. They're very big questions in terms of'why'. I'm not sure that anyone really knows why, if I'm honest, although there is a lot of academic research going on. What we do know is that we are starting to see the scale of those referrals coming through. So, in the information provided, I refer to the NHS digital prevalence report in England, which indicates that about 5. 5 per cent of two to four-year-olds have a mental disorder. Now, that sounds a bit shocking when we say that, but that's in the international classification scaling, and, of that, certainly, 2. 5 per cent is around autism. I can just testify, in real life, that demand is absolutely growing. So, if I just take my own health board for a moment, we usually have about 75 referrals per year. Last year we had 300. So, that has felt very difficult to manage. If I can just give you a sense of what we've done so far and then what I think is next, I want to recognise the work of Dr Cath Norton and the steering group that's been established on neurodevelopmental issues under the programme. They had a standing start. They've done a lot

What did Carol Shillabeer find unexpected when talking about neurodevelopmental service

There would be only 40 per cent to 50 per cent of families met a threshold for the support, while more people still needed help. Therefore, focusing on the families who reached a threshold is not good enough, and the programme should tackle all of them.

for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good increase in those posts to be filledCarol Shillabeer: So, you're absolutely right. There's been quite a lot of investment, and there have been quite a lot of new recruits coming to the service. We had in the early days a situation where we were largely robbing Peter to pay Paul, to be quite frank. So, as new services were being developed, people would move from one part of the system to the other. So, in the early days there was little net gain. That has improved slightly, but we're in a national context, particularly around nursing and around some specialties in medicine, of a national shortage, so this is not a quick fix. We are starting to see a greater diversity of workforce. So, if I can mention psychology assistants, for example, my own health board is employing more psychology assistants as part of a skill mix team, rather than going to where we might have been more traditionally based. We see some of that through the NHS benchmarking, particularly with England. They have more of that. We're perhaps a little bit--Hefin David AM: More of whatCarol Shillabeer: They have more skill mix in their workforce. We're catching up a bit more on that now.Hefin David AM: Just to clarify there, what you're referring to--there are more nursing and medical staff in the Wales system and more psychological staff, experts, in the UK picture. Is that--Carol Shillabeer: In the England picture. So, England had a programme called IAPT, which is about psychological therapies, and had therefore looked at the skill mix. Some of that was--. We've chatted to colleagues in England, trying to learn--we're all trying to make improvements in this area, of course; it's a UK and international issue--what were their experiences of this psychological therapies approach. Because of I think, certainly, there is some recovery in the position in north Wales, and the programme did a peer review visit to north Wales, which I think was very helpful. In terms of where the programme has been on this issue, there is some work under way, at quite an advanced stage, around the art of the possible around enhancing the scope of the services. This was quite a tricky thing to start off when you're in a position where, actually, there've been some restrictions, to then ask the service to think about going even further, but we really wanted to see what the art of the possible would be if we could attract the right workforce, get the right environment, et cetera, et cetera--so, that piece of work, the review of the specification about what could be possible. Clearly, we work very closely with Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee as the commissioner, so we don't commission that. We neither performance manage those environments. But, if I can just say, probably the most important part of moving forward now is the longer term work between health and social care in terms of having a much more integrated and joined up approach for children. We believe there would probably be about 100 children who have experienced care in multiple settings. We haven't got that mature approach in terms of these being joined-up teams; we've got social care and we've got healthcare. There is a growing appetite to do something different. There is a meeting with the children's commissioner on 9 July to explore that. I've previously had conversations with the chief inspector of Care Inspectorate Wales, for example, and we have now got, I think, a consensus growing that we need to do something very different for children and young people

Summarize the discussion about in-patient care and workforce.

Carol Shillabeer answered Lynne Neagle's question by introducing the progress of the in-patient care programme and the challenge of the workforce. Carol personally recommended employing more psychology assistants as part of a skill mix team and indicated communities of practice to make the best use of the resource. Finally, as for the language, there was an agreement on the use of the Welsh language and the need for enough Welsh language practitioners to respond to vulnerable people.

the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good I think, certainly, there is some recovery in the position in north Wales, and the programme did a peer review visit to north Wales, which I think was very helpful. In terms of where the programme has been on this issue, there is some work under way, at quite an advanced stage, around the art of the possible around enhancing the scope of the services. This was quite a tricky thing to start off when you're in a position where, actually, there've been some restrictions, to then ask the service to think about going even further, but we really wanted to see what the art of the possible would be if we could attract the right workforce, get the right environment, et cetera, et cetera--so, that piece of work, the review of the specification about what could be possible. Clearly, we work very closely with Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee as the commissioner, so we don't commission that. We neither performance manage those environments. But, if I can just say, probably the most important part of moving forward now is the longer term work between health and social care in terms of having a much more integrated and joined up approach for children. We believe there would probably be about 100 children who have experienced care in multiple settings. We haven't got that mature approach in terms of these being joined-up teams; we've got social care and we've got healthcare. There is a growing appetite to do something different. There is a meeting with the children's commissioner on 9 July to explore that. I've previously had conversations with the chief inspector of Care Inspectorate Wales, for example, and we have now got, I think, a consensus growing that we need to do something very different for children and young people case for consistency in the main, with local variation. There has been a case for much greater learning between organisations. If I just give you an example--you'll know that the community intensive service teams were put in place in 2015-ish. Some areas have them, but a lot of areas didn't. We do have inconsistency in that, but the consistent part is there is a service now right the way across Wales for more intensive support to children and young people and their families in their own homes, which helps to prevent admissions and then, where there are admissions, helps to support people to be at home. They're all called slightly different things. So, I might have referred in my papers to CITT, CATT, COT and CITE. So, they've all got slightly different names and they've got slightly different opening hours. The key thrust of this is that there is a backbone, if you like, of a consistent approach with that local variation. We have to check. So, things like frameworks for improvement--there is a coming together of the clinicians and the professionals to agree what that framework for improvement is. That then gets implemented, with some local variation. So, I think the process of moving in that way has been extremely helpful. There will be some variation. We want some variation, to some extent, as places try new things and evaluate new things. So, if I just refer to the previous question that I had, and I talked about hot clinics and different ways of reaching out; that's been tried in one area, been evaluated--let's see the spread of that. So, you'll know my view on internet counselling, for example; I feel that is quite a strong offer for children--not necessarily in the specialist end. If that works in one for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units.

What did Carol Dhillabeer think about the most important part of the work of in-patient care at that time

The most important at that time was the long-term work between health and social care in terms of having a much more integrated and joined-up approach for children.

are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. part of that. The whole-school approach element is already settled in Government and we've got a connection in to that. The question that's outstanding is where the early help and enhanced support and the neurodevelopmental will go. I am currently in discussions with Welsh Government officials around that. I can be very clear of my own view that there needs to be a confident and clear legacy arrangement for this work. We cannot afford that we've come so far for this not now to proceed. I think there's a huge momentum behind this. I don't see there would be any obstacles--I hope--in getting that commitment translated into a strong approach, as we move forward. So, I'm not in a position to say,'And the legacy arrangements will be--', but I am in a position to say that I'm having those discussions with Welsh Government officials. They know my view that we've got to put something in place that is strong and secure as we move forward, and I believe that they are supportive of that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, I think those two questions have been touched on, the remaining questions. We are going to discuss in more detail the legacy arrangements, but if I could just ask on psychological therapies: you referred to the fact that you were a bit disappointed with progress in this area, and the area hasn't been directly led on by the Together for Children and Young People programme. Do you think that means now that there is more of a threat to progress in this area, because, you know, we've got different compartmentalising of actions, and this is absolutely key, isn't it, reallyCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think there's--. There is some refinement to be done, I think, in making sure the connections I think, certainly, there is some recovery in the position in north Wales, and the programme did a peer review visit to north Wales, which I think was very helpful. In terms of where the programme has been on this issue, there is some work under way, at quite an advanced stage, around the art of the possible around enhancing the scope of the services. This was quite a tricky thing to start off when you're in a position where, actually, there've been some restrictions, to then ask the service to think about going even further, but we really wanted to see what the art of the possible would be if we could attract the right workforce, get the right environment, et cetera, et cetera--so, that piece of work, the review of the specification about what could be possible. Clearly, we work very closely with Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee as the commissioner, so we don't commission that. We neither performance manage those environments. But, if I can just say, probably the most important part of moving forward now is the longer term work between health and social care in terms of having a much more integrated and joined up approach for children. We believe there would probably be about 100 children who have experienced care in multiple settings. We haven't got that mature approach in terms of these being joined-up teams; we've got social care and we've got healthcare. There is a growing appetite to do something different. There is a meeting with the children's commissioner on 9 July to explore that. I've previously had conversations with the chief inspector of Care Inspectorate Wales, for example, and we have now got, I think, a consensus growing that we need to do something very different for children and young people case for consistency in the main, with local variation. There has been a case for much greater learning between organisations. If I just give you an example--you'll know that the community intensive service teams were put in place in 2015-ish. Some areas have them, but a lot of areas didn't. We do have inconsistency in that, but the consistent part is there is a service now right the way across Wales for more intensive support to children and young people and their families in their own homes, which helps to prevent admissions and then, where there are admissions, helps to support people to be at home. They're all called slightly different things. So, I might have referred in my papers to CITT, CATT, COT and CITE. So, they've all got slightly different names and they've got slightly different opening hours. The key thrust of this is that there is a backbone, if you like, of a consistent approach with that local variation. We have to check. So, things like frameworks for improvement--there is a coming together of the clinicians and the professionals to agree what that framework for improvement is. That then gets implemented, with some local variation. So, I think the process of moving in that way has been extremely helpful. There will be some variation. We want some variation, to some extent, as places try new things and evaluate new things. So, if I just refer to the previous question that I had, and I talked about hot clinics and different ways of reaching out; that's been tried in one area, been evaluated--let's see the spread of that. So, you'll know my view on internet counselling, for example; I feel that is quite a strong offer for children--not necessarily in the specialist end. If that works in one

What did Carol Dhillabeer think about the community of practice when talking about workforce

The practice was guided by the Nation Institute for Health and Care, enabling referrals to match the right practitioner and the right service. It is expected to be more flexible and careful to use the resource. Overall, the community had gradually become standard, doing a collective reflection on service improvement and being clear about mutual learning, but the environment operated still waited to be improved.

that we wanted to cover with you. We might need to drop you a line about a couple of things that we haven't covered, but can I thank you for your attendance this morning As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you very much for your time.Carol Shillabeer: Thank you, all.Lynne Neagle AM: Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Youth Parliament--invitation to engagement events. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Education clarifying some issues around the Welsh network of healthy schools scheme, following the task and finish group. Paper to note 3: letter from the Minister for Education on the implementation of the Diamond reforms, and that's ahead of our session on 4 July. Papers to note 4 and 5 are a letter from me to the children's commissioner and the Minister for Education seeking the update we agreed on the issue of elective home education. And then paper to note 6, paper to note 7 and paper to note 8 are all letters regarding the concerns that we discussed about the expectation of a target being set for looked-after children, to the First Minister, Children's Commissioner for Wales and the Association of Directors of Social Services. Are Members happy to note those Thank you very much. Item 4, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17. 42 to resolve to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content Okay. the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, about what the programme's done, but really around the broader sense as well. I'm going to be very straight and say we should have made more progress on psychological therapies. I'm disappointed that we haven't. I'm assured that we've got capacity in place now and the drive in place to get the Matrics Cymru framework developed for children and young people. I've had discussions with the national psychological therapies committee, who have owned this, and we're working together more on this area. That's not to say for one minute that health boards and local areas haven't been working on psychological therapy service provision and changing the models, but that is an area we should have made, I think, earlier progress on. There's been a general reflection from myself and the Together for Children and Young People programme board over the phase of the programme. I think we started very strongly; I think we probably had a bit of a lull in the middle, if I'm truthful about that--we had a change of personnel, and we really gathered a momentum over the last year or 18 months, and that has helped to push us from a focus on specialist CAMHS into that whole-school approach. But, if I could just agree with your comments about the whole system, it has to be the whole system and that's why the real focus now on early help and enhanced support is critical. If I can just say, in case I don't get a chance to say this later, I was delighted to see the focus on youth work yesterday, because what is clear is for that part, the early help and enhanced support, this isn't just about the NHS and it's not just about education, it's about every part of the system, really, which I think, certainly, there is some recovery in the position in north Wales, and the programme did a peer review visit to north Wales, which I think was very helpful. In terms of where the programme has been on this issue, there is some work under way, at quite an advanced stage, around the art of the possible around enhancing the scope of the services. This was quite a tricky thing to start off when you're in a position where, actually, there've been some restrictions, to then ask the service to think about going even further, but we really wanted to see what the art of the possible would be if we could attract the right workforce, get the right environment, et cetera, et cetera--so, that piece of work, the review of the specification about what could be possible. Clearly, we work very closely with Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee as the commissioner, so we don't commission that. We neither performance manage those environments. But, if I can just say, probably the most important part of moving forward now is the longer term work between health and social care in terms of having a much more integrated and joined up approach for children. We believe there would probably be about 100 children who have experienced care in multiple settings. We haven't got that mature approach in terms of these being joined-up teams; we've got social care and we've got healthcare. There is a growing appetite to do something different. There is a meeting with the children's commissioner on 9 July to explore that. I've previously had conversations with the chief inspector of Care Inspectorate Wales, for example, and we have now got, I think, a consensus growing that we need to do something very different for children and young people part of that. The whole-school approach element is already settled in Government and we've got a connection in to that. The question that's outstanding is where the early help and enhanced support and the neurodevelopmental will go. I am currently in discussions with Welsh Government officials around that. I can be very clear of my own view that there needs to be a confident and clear legacy arrangement for this work. We cannot afford that we've come so far for this not now to proceed. I think there's a huge momentum behind this. I don't see there would be any obstacles--I hope--in getting that commitment translated into a strong approach, as we move forward. So, I'm not in a position to say,'And the legacy arrangements will be--', but I am in a position to say that I'm having those discussions with Welsh Government officials. They know my view that we've got to put something in place that is strong and secure as we move forward, and I believe that they are supportive of that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, I think those two questions have been touched on, the remaining questions. We are going to discuss in more detail the legacy arrangements, but if I could just ask on psychological therapies: you referred to the fact that you were a bit disappointed with progress in this area, and the area hasn't been directly led on by the Together for Children and Young People programme. Do you think that means now that there is more of a threat to progress in this area, because, you know, we've got different compartmentalising of actions, and this is absolutely key, isn't it, reallyCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think there's--. There is some refinement to be done, I think, in making sure the connections

Summarize the discussion about looked-after children and transitional-arrangement.

Carol Shillabeer answered a question from Suzy Davies, indicating the intersection between the Together for Children and Young People programme and the Outcomes for Children Group programme. Next, in response to Dawn Bowden, Shillabeer talked about the development of transition guidance and the endeavor to reduce the numbers of transitions and manage them better.

the more specialist end of this. So, I think we will have seen, by the evidence submission, that demand has increased, not just in Wales but in the UK, and it has increased significantly. We are doing reasonably well at meeting that demand--so, we have more contacts, more staff, shorter access times, so that is a good news story. We've not got it completely sustained at this stage, and therefore the focus of the delivery unit's primary care CAMHS report is what more can we do in that part of the system to help to see children and young people or provide consultation and liaison to others and support people at that level of intervention.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. I know, from my own experience as a constituency AM, I have families who tell me that they can't get into the early interventions and eventually things just become so--they end up in the more specialist ones and believe that that's--. And I don't like to put it in resource terms, but it's false economy in terms of the impact on the child and the family, but, obviously, in terms of cost as well. Do you find that that's a common theme across WalesCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think that the thrust of that is absolutely right. So, we absolutely need to see children and families at the earliest intervention and that's why this is a whole system, not compartmentalised. I think there have been really good attempts in a couple of areas of that greater reach out and that earlier help--hot clinics and those sorts of initiatives that help people not to get in a long queue for specialist CAMHS, but can be supported, often by telephone, at that earlier stage. My sense of where we go next, in terms of, for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good part of that. The whole-school approach element is already settled in Government and we've got a connection in to that. The question that's outstanding is where the early help and enhanced support and the neurodevelopmental will go. I am currently in discussions with Welsh Government officials around that. I can be very clear of my own view that there needs to be a confident and clear legacy arrangement for this work. We cannot afford that we've come so far for this not now to proceed. I think there's a huge momentum behind this. I don't see there would be any obstacles--I hope--in getting that commitment translated into a strong approach, as we move forward. So, I'm not in a position to say,'And the legacy arrangements will be--', but I am in a position to say that I'm having those discussions with Welsh Government officials. They know my view that we've got to put something in place that is strong and secure as we move forward, and I believe that they are supportive of that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, I think those two questions have been touched on, the remaining questions. We are going to discuss in more detail the legacy arrangements, but if I could just ask on psychological therapies: you referred to the fact that you were a bit disappointed with progress in this area, and the area hasn't been directly led on by the Together for Children and Young People programme. Do you think that means now that there is more of a threat to progress in this area, because, you know, we've got different compartmentalising of actions, and this is absolutely key, isn't it, reallyCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think there's--. There is some refinement to be done, I think, in making sure the connections our guidance to put that on the table to say,'Well, if this works, this needs to be considered as a model for using elsewhere'. But the big question there is'if'. So, we do want to get evaluation. If I were just to give an estimate of where I think this will land, I think it will have made improvements, but there may well be some further work to do in enhancing, supporting, auditing that every child is supported in line with that guidance. So, I talked about community practice and clinical audit: is this something that we make, then, a mandatory audit, each year, that we do that double check Because it's one of those things where we know when a child is 14,15,16,17, so what's stopping us If indeed the evaluation says it's not happening everywhere, it's not happening early enough, what is stopping us We really need to get underneath that. So, my sense will be it will show us, it will be better, but there's some further work to do, and following that up in terms of audit and making sure that we've got a systematic approach to dealing with those who haven't had the guidance fully implemented, because it can make a real difference.Dawn Bowden AM: Yes, and it seems to me--you've just talked about having a systematic approach, and it does seem to me that it is a systematic process, isn't it So, it shouldn't be difficult. I know we're talking about in the health service things shouldn't be difficult and they are, and one of the gripes--I had a meeting with the community health team--was the problems of the new IT systems and so on--let's not go there at the moment. But, really, this is just about referring children and having a smooth transition

What did Carol Shillabeer think about the reasons that brought the programme to intersect with the outcomes for children when talking about looked-after children

First, there was a close link between each member. Second, in terms of the question of specialist CAMHS in-patients, there was a need to bring the services together for stronger working.

are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. part of that. The whole-school approach element is already settled in Government and we've got a connection in to that. The question that's outstanding is where the early help and enhanced support and the neurodevelopmental will go. I am currently in discussions with Welsh Government officials around that. I can be very clear of my own view that there needs to be a confident and clear legacy arrangement for this work. We cannot afford that we've come so far for this not now to proceed. I think there's a huge momentum behind this. I don't see there would be any obstacles--I hope--in getting that commitment translated into a strong approach, as we move forward. So, I'm not in a position to say,'And the legacy arrangements will be--', but I am in a position to say that I'm having those discussions with Welsh Government officials. They know my view that we've got to put something in place that is strong and secure as we move forward, and I believe that they are supportive of that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Janet, I think those two questions have been touched on, the remaining questions. We are going to discuss in more detail the legacy arrangements, but if I could just ask on psychological therapies: you referred to the fact that you were a bit disappointed with progress in this area, and the area hasn't been directly led on by the Together for Children and Young People programme. Do you think that means now that there is more of a threat to progress in this area, because, you know, we've got different compartmentalising of actions, and this is absolutely key, isn't it, reallyCarol Shillabeer: Yes. I think there's--. There is some refinement to be done, I think, in making sure the connections case for consistency in the main, with local variation. There has been a case for much greater learning between organisations. If I just give you an example--you'll know that the community intensive service teams were put in place in 2015-ish. Some areas have them, but a lot of areas didn't. We do have inconsistency in that, but the consistent part is there is a service now right the way across Wales for more intensive support to children and young people and their families in their own homes, which helps to prevent admissions and then, where there are admissions, helps to support people to be at home. They're all called slightly different things. So, I might have referred in my papers to CITT, CATT, COT and CITE. So, they've all got slightly different names and they've got slightly different opening hours. The key thrust of this is that there is a backbone, if you like, of a consistent approach with that local variation. We have to check. So, things like frameworks for improvement--there is a coming together of the clinicians and the professionals to agree what that framework for improvement is. That then gets implemented, with some local variation. So, I think the process of moving in that way has been extremely helpful. There will be some variation. We want some variation, to some extent, as places try new things and evaluate new things. So, if I just refer to the previous question that I had, and I talked about hot clinics and different ways of reaching out; that's been tried in one area, been evaluated--let's see the spread of that. So, you'll know my view on internet counselling, for example; I feel that is quite a strong offer for children--not necessarily in the specialist end. If that works in one our guidance to put that on the table to say,'Well, if this works, this needs to be considered as a model for using elsewhere'. But the big question there is'if'. So, we do want to get evaluation. If I were just to give an estimate of where I think this will land, I think it will have made improvements, but there may well be some further work to do in enhancing, supporting, auditing that every child is supported in line with that guidance. So, I talked about community practice and clinical audit: is this something that we make, then, a mandatory audit, each year, that we do that double check Because it's one of those things where we know when a child is 14,15,16,17, so what's stopping us If indeed the evaluation says it's not happening everywhere, it's not happening early enough, what is stopping us We really need to get underneath that. So, my sense will be it will show us, it will be better, but there's some further work to do, and following that up in terms of audit and making sure that we've got a systematic approach to dealing with those who haven't had the guidance fully implemented, because it can make a real difference.Dawn Bowden AM: Yes, and it seems to me--you've just talked about having a systematic approach, and it does seem to me that it is a systematic process, isn't it So, it shouldn't be difficult. I know we're talking about in the health service things shouldn't be difficult and they are, and one of the gripes--I had a meeting with the community health team--was the problems of the new IT systems and so on--let's not go there at the moment. But, really, this is just about referring children and having a smooth transition

What did Carol Dhillabeer think about the development of transition guidance when talking about transitional arrangement

The guidance was developed and the programme was in the process of evaluation. However, there was still further work to do in terms of audit, making sure to get a systematic approach to deal with those who hadn't had the guidance fully implemented.

that we wanted to cover with you. We might need to drop you a line about a couple of things that we haven't covered, but can I thank you for your attendance this morning As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you very much for your time.Carol Shillabeer: Thank you, all.Lynne Neagle AM: Item 3, then, is papers to note. Paper to note 1 is a letter from the Welsh Youth Parliament--invitation to engagement events. Paper to note 2 is a letter from the Minister for Education clarifying some issues around the Welsh network of healthy schools scheme, following the task and finish group. Paper to note 3: letter from the Minister for Education on the implementation of the Diamond reforms, and that's ahead of our session on 4 July. Papers to note 4 and 5 are a letter from me to the children's commissioner and the Minister for Education seeking the update we agreed on the issue of elective home education. And then paper to note 6, paper to note 7 and paper to note 8 are all letters regarding the concerns that we discussed about the expectation of a target being set for looked-after children, to the First Minister, Children's Commissioner for Wales and the Association of Directors of Social Services. Are Members happy to note those Thank you very much. Item 4, then, is a motion under Standing Order 17. 42 to resolve to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content Okay. for the long term. We know that money's been put into this and it has had an important impact, but we now need to be planning for the next three, five, 10 and many years beyond that. There is the integrated autism service. I think there are some conversations, when I talk about the landscape being quite busy, about the sense of where this links as we support people through their lives with a neurodevelopmental issue. So, it's not just about a childhood thing; as people move through, we've got to get much better at that long-term planning. So, that piece of work is really important. We will get the report of that over the next couple of months in order for this sort of perfect-world picture that we want to try to describe to be informed by that. It also connects to the early help and enhanced support, because recognising if we just say half of the people who come for an assessment don't meet a threshold for a certain category, that's a lot of people who will need help and support to manage and cope with their condition and their situation.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. If we can just move on now to in-patient care, and if I can just ask you what the programme has been doing to address some of the challenges and opportunities we face in terms of CAMHS in-patient care, particularly in light of the restrictions that are in place in Abergele and Ty Llidiard.Carol Shillabeer: Yes, thank you very much for that question. Again, quite a lot of progress has been made in the early part of the programme around in-patients, and you are very well aware of the challenges over the last year or 18 months in relation to both units. about what the programme's done, but really around the broader sense as well. I'm going to be very straight and say we should have made more progress on psychological therapies. I'm disappointed that we haven't. I'm assured that we've got capacity in place now and the drive in place to get the Matrics Cymru framework developed for children and young people. I've had discussions with the national psychological therapies committee, who have owned this, and we're working together more on this area. That's not to say for one minute that health boards and local areas haven't been working on psychological therapy service provision and changing the models, but that is an area we should have made, I think, earlier progress on. There's been a general reflection from myself and the Together for Children and Young People programme board over the phase of the programme. I think we started very strongly; I think we probably had a bit of a lull in the middle, if I'm truthful about that--we had a change of personnel, and we really gathered a momentum over the last year or 18 months, and that has helped to push us from a focus on specialist CAMHS into that whole-school approach. But, if I could just agree with your comments about the whole system, it has to be the whole system and that's why the real focus now on early help and enhanced support is critical. If I can just say, in case I don't get a chance to say this later, I was delighted to see the focus on youth work yesterday, because what is clear is for that part, the early help and enhanced support, this isn't just about the NHS and it's not just about education, it's about every part of the system, really, which are there. So, I think, as we move to programme end, we'll want to be absolutely assured that there are no strands left hanging, so to speak. I am confident--I mentioned the mental health network board that I chair--that we have those strands nailed down, but recognising that the early help and enhanced support and the provision of psychological support is beyond the NHS. So, this will be an area that needs to be very much seen as a key part of that. My own sense is that--. There's been quite a lot of other developments through the life of the programme. So, in the evidence that I've provided, you'll see the First 1000 days, all the adverse childhood experiences work, the Cymru Well Wales partnership, et cetera, et cetera. So, there is a bit of what I would call tidying up of the landscape to be done, and this is the ideal opportunity to do that.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. We've got some questions now on specialist CAMHS--if I can just ask about the impact of the specialist CAMHS framework, and how effective you feel that has been in promoting a consistent delivery of care for young people.Carol Shillabeer: Thanks very much for that. Without wanting to go back too far in history, I remember coming into this area back in 2014 as I was asked to establish a CAMHS network. My observation was there wasn't really a strong and well-connected clinical community in this area. When we spin forward five years, I can confidently say that there is a strong and well-connected clinical community around specialist CAMHS. The programme has helped; the emphasis and the focus of the programme has helped to bring people together with that more common endeavour to understand, actually, there is a good to share the information on this--we already had a service in place. So, it wasn't as if we had nothing in place previously. We had a NICE-compliant service already in place, but we knew we needed to expand that, which we have done, but we didn't anticipate 300. So, this is happening not just across Wales, actually, but across the UK--so, this greater recognition, the desire for families coming forward to access that support and them seeing this as a route, which is really important. What I would also say, and this is part of the bigger picture that we need to consider going forward, is that only about 40 per cent to 50 per cent of those families that come forward have what I would call or the clinicians would call a diagnosis--so, a threshold or whatever term you want to use that takes people through to that educational support. So, we've got a lot of people who are under that threshold, but that's a lot of people who still need help and support. I'm trying to very fairly and, I hope, appropriately represent the very strong views coming from the group--the workstream under the programme. We've got to tackle all of that. It's not going to be good enough for us just to focus our attention on those children and young people and their families who reach a threshold, because there are needs elsewhere as well, and some of that will overlap with the early help and enhanced support. Some of that overlaps with learning disability services. Can I just mention a few more things, as I'm on roll on neurodevelopmentalHefin David AM: It's up to the Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, go on.Carol Shillabeer: Is that all right Sorry, I know it's a very long answer. There is

Summarize the whole meeting.

This was the Children, Young People and Education committee, guided by Lynne Neagle. The whole meeting was in the quiz form, in which Carol Shillabeer, the chief executive of Powys Teaching Health Board, answered questions about the Together for Children and Young People programme. To begin with, Shillabeer responded to the progress and shortages of the whole programme, followed by the theme of early help and enhanced support for children and young people. The next topic was the CAMHS framework and its effect in promoting a consistent delivery of care. Furthermore, Shillabeer answered questions about neurodevelopmental services, in-patient care, the workforce issue, looked-after children, and transitional arrangement. In the end, Shillabeer indicated the personal position of legacy that there would be something to handle those problems, no matter what it was.

and it c it {disfmarker}Project Manager: You'd need a display on the th the thing.User Interface: Why It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_.Marketing: Yeah the the television can tell you.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Can.Project Manager: Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it thoughUser Interface: Well you just {disfmarker} it's one extra button. You say programme start, and then type in {disfmarker}Marketing: Put {disfmarker}User Interface:'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type'em in manually.Project Manager: Okay okay.User Interface: So programme start, zero, one, enter, zero, five, enter, {vocalsound} thirty eight, enter, programme end.Project Manager: Okay and yeahMarketing: And then.Project Manager: and that just basically flips between it and it'll go {disfmarker} it sends out zero, five, and then thirty six, and then zero, one again.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that's kinda cool. I like that.Marketing: And again we have another another great marketing tool.Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: We have about three {disfmarker} we have three or four things here.Project Manager: That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be {disfmarker} you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically {vocalsound} come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.Project Manager: Might be, but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.User Interface: Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes, between going through to what we'd be able to sell something like this forUser Interface: Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now, how much would you pay forMarketing: We have to find cost.User Interface: {disfmarker} with all these features {disfmarker} how much would you pay if you went to the store, and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote, how much would you pay for thatProject Manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.User Interface: I'm just asking you.Project Manager: I'm a student, but on the other hand I would think, mm with my Project Manager salary, I would think {disfmarker} yeah I could probably afford this {disfmarker}User Interface: If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Then you could probably afford this {vocalsound}.Project Manager: uh would I buy it Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel, which I think's a really cool idea, that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly, that would be way too much,User Interface: Oh no no.Project Manager: but the {disfmarker} I would be happy paying over forty for it, I guess, but not much {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say thirty five to forty.Marketing: Yeah, I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.Project Manager:'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Right.Marketing: the idea of the scroll wheel though.Project Manager: And if we're marketing it as a high niche product, then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well, yeah, presumably.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Primarily.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah I think so. I I think so.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Now the the only thing I I {vocalsound} {disfmarker} on the interface side of it, is that {vocalsound} I I I see the dilemma. {vocalsound} But if we have the option of of scrolling {vocalsound} at any particular speed, or the option of jumping direct, okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I can go uh {vocalsound} presuming I have, on my television, something that tells me what channel I'm on, I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two. {vocalsound} I know what {disfmarker} because it's on the television. The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it. So {vocalsound} I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem,'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system You understand what I'm sayingUser Interface: I think I know what you might be getting at, or or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh I see so if {disfmarker} maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it, right And then it {disfmarker} that basically {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh no we could read it from the television.User Interface: Well, what about this {disfmarker} what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels,Project Manager: Mm. Well that's quite cool.User Interface: Well you had acknowledged that we have more money for this.Project Manager: Yeah well we don't have {vocalsound} it's not that we have more money,Marketing: Didn't you say soProject Manager: we can push up the the price.Marketing: That's what I mean.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We can increase the cost.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: So I don't know I don't know whether having {disfmarker}User Interface: I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to, though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components. But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that, and what sorta price can we make it forMarketing: Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say, okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume, because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit.Project Manager: Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting, our management is really looking for us to push our brand. We're entering a new market here,User Interface: Right.Project Manager: so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay I'm I'm okay with that. I guess what I just want {disfmarker} to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached, and then we have to take this to the next level.Project Manager: But th what's our ballpark as Designer: You killed my father.User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush.Industrial Designer: Prepare to die. {vocalsound}Marketing: N name.Project Manager: Right. {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control. Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here, and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here, your batteries here, and some sorta electronics. Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys, huh.Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor, and this amplifies your signal,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board. Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot.User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly.Industrial Designer: Nah.User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here, this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno.Marketing: P Yeah.User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is pretty standard remote. So here are options for our power sources. You can use a basic battery, which we've already discussed, um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the

Summarize the discussion about product components.

The group decided to produce a mid-sized remote control with a printed circuit board, a medium chip, a transistor, a scroll wheel, a power cradle, a locator, a radio transmitter, an antenna, a speaker, double curves, some LEDs and some buttons. The casing material would be a combination of rubber and plastic.

and it c it {disfmarker}Project Manager: You'd need a display on the th the thing.User Interface: Why It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_.Marketing: Yeah the the television can tell you.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Can.Project Manager: Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it thoughUser Interface: Well you just {disfmarker} it's one extra button. You say programme start, and then type in {disfmarker}Marketing: Put {disfmarker}User Interface:'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type'em in manually.Project Manager: Okay okay.User Interface: So programme start, zero, one, enter, zero, five, enter, {vocalsound} thirty eight, enter, programme end.Project Manager: Okay and yeahMarketing: And then.Project Manager: and that just basically flips between it and it'll go {disfmarker} it sends out zero, five, and then thirty six, and then zero, one again.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that's kinda cool. I like that.Marketing: And again we have another another great marketing tool.Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: We have about three {disfmarker} we have three or four things here.Project Manager: That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be {disfmarker} you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically {vocalsound} come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.Project Manager: Might be, but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.User Interface: Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes, between going through to what we'd be able to sell something like this forUser Interface: Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now, how much would you pay forMarketing: We have to find cost.User Interface: {disfmarker} with all these features {disfmarker} how much would you pay if you went to the store, and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote, how much would you pay for thatProject Manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.User Interface: I'm just asking you.Project Manager: I'm a student, but on the other hand I would think, mm with my Project Manager salary, I would think {disfmarker} yeah I could probably afford this {disfmarker}User Interface: If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Then you could probably afford this {vocalsound}.Project Manager: uh would I buy it Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel, which I think's a really cool idea, that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly, that would be way too much,User Interface: Oh no no.Project Manager: but the {disfmarker} I would be happy paying over forty for it, I guess, but not much {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say thirty five to forty.Marketing: Yeah, I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.Project Manager:'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Right.Marketing: out. I don't think the cost is justified {vocalsound} for a little bit more uniqueness when we already have that, and I don't s think it's obvious and natural how it would be used.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah I think we have {disfmarker} like and it's not very usable and it will bring down the robustness of the whole thing,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer:'cause it's it it breaks down easier.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: For me I think the scroll wheel actually might not be so bad.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be, but I think he does have a point, i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else, when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels. I think it might be kinda neat to be able to do it like that.Project Manager: But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_Marketing: WProject Manager: because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so {disfmarker}User Interface: Sure.Project Manager: if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels. Or do you have to go through and you wait for itMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} You scroll it a bunch of times and you wait for it to {disfmarker}User Interface: Well I think wh what it would be is like like the m like this, where it's maybe you know a digital wheel, right, where it's where it's quantized into you know certain {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh yeah.Project Manager: Uh I see I see. That's where you {disfmarker}User Interface: Designer: You killed my father.User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush.Industrial Designer: Prepare to die. {vocalsound}Marketing: N name.Project Manager: Right. {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control. Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here, and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here, your batteries here, and some sorta electronics. Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys, huh.Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor, and this amplifies your signal,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board. Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot.User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly.Industrial Designer: Nah.User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here, this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno.Marketing: P Yeah.User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is pretty standard remote. So here are options for our power sources. You can use a basic battery, which we've already discussed, um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the a mistake because this is a universal remote and all you're doing {disfmarker} I mean it's {disfmarker} you're not gonna get any information back from the television, so the only information you can display on this remote is what channel you {vocalsound} just sent it at last and there's just not a lot of information, you know, there.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: It receives no information.Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: So I I don't see any reason for having an L_C_D_'cause it's an increased cost. Unless you can think of something interesting to do with it.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah right now there's {disfmarker} right now there's nothing coming out of the T_V_ to receive, so you know unless technology changes and information starts coming out of the {disfmarker} a cable box or something there's no s I don't see the,User Interface: Right.Marketing: I don't see the necessity of an L_C_D_ either. Don't see it.Project Manager: Okay so the question is now I guess we need t to decide on {disfmarker} well y you guys basically have to now go and figure out the details of this thing.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So, what we need to know in terms of marketing and uh project management are are there any other questions that we need to answer now before you guys can go and build thisMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: What what overall things have we not decided onUser Interface: Well we have to {disfmarker} I think for me it's still not exactly clear exactly what the inter user interface is gonna be. There's the scroll wheel, in or out What do you guys like in the user interfaceProject Manager: I think maybe in terms of marketing, is that gonna make enough of a difference to justify the costMarketing: {vocalsound} Again. Well I think it's it's {disfmarker} the

What did the user interface designer recommend when discussing the casing material of the product and why

The user interface designer pointed out that if they were to go with titanium, there would be limitations in the amount of shapes because it was tough to shape the titanium. Also, wood was not suitable as it seemed anti-technology. Thus, the user interface designer recommended making a thick plastic inner shell and a rubber outer shell which was more durable and felt better.

and it c it {disfmarker}Project Manager: You'd need a display on the th the thing.User Interface: Why It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_.Marketing: Yeah the the television can tell you.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Can.Project Manager: Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it thoughUser Interface: Well you just {disfmarker} it's one extra button. You say programme start, and then type in {disfmarker}Marketing: Put {disfmarker}User Interface:'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type'em in manually.Project Manager: Okay okay.User Interface: So programme start, zero, one, enter, zero, five, enter, {vocalsound} thirty eight, enter, programme end.Project Manager: Okay and yeahMarketing: And then.Project Manager: and that just basically flips between it and it'll go {disfmarker} it sends out zero, five, and then thirty six, and then zero, one again.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that's kinda cool. I like that.Marketing: And again we have another another great marketing tool.Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: We have about three {disfmarker} we have three or four things here.Project Manager: That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be {disfmarker} you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically {vocalsound} come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.Project Manager: Might be, but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.User Interface: Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes, between going through to what we'd be able to sell something like this forUser Interface: Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now, how much would you pay forMarketing: We have to find cost.User Interface: {disfmarker} with all these features {disfmarker} how much would you pay if you went to the store, and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote, how much would you pay for thatProject Manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.User Interface: I'm just asking you.Project Manager: I'm a student, but on the other hand I would think, mm with my Project Manager salary, I would think {disfmarker} yeah I could probably afford this {disfmarker}User Interface: If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Then you could probably afford this {vocalsound}.Project Manager: uh would I buy it Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel, which I think's a really cool idea, that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly, that would be way too much,User Interface: Oh no no.Project Manager: but the {disfmarker} I would be happy paying over forty for it, I guess, but not much {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say thirty five to forty.Marketing: Yeah, I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.Project Manager:'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Right.Marketing: the idea of the scroll wheel though.Project Manager: And if we're marketing it as a high niche product, then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well, yeah, presumably.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Primarily.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah I think so. I I think so.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Now the the only thing I I {vocalsound} {disfmarker} on the interface side of it, is that {vocalsound} I I I see the dilemma. {vocalsound} But if we have the option of of scrolling {vocalsound} at any particular speed, or the option of jumping direct, okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I can go uh {vocalsound} presuming I have, on my television, something that tells me what channel I'm on, I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two. {vocalsound} I know what {disfmarker} because it's on the television. The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it. So {vocalsound} I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem,'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system You understand what I'm sayingUser Interface: I think I know what you might be getting at, or or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh I see so if {disfmarker} maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it, right And then it {disfmarker} that basically {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh no we could read it from the television.User Interface: Well, what about this {disfmarker} what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels,Project Manager: Mm. Well that's quite cool.User Interface: very technical um {vocalsound} descriptions here. A simple chip, which is the least expensive, but I have no numbers to give you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: a regular chip, which is {vocalsound} like the medium porridge {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} medium expense uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chipUser Interface: Yes the difference is, with a simple chip {disfmarker} a simple chip will operate {disfmarker} oh why doesn't this scroll up Previous previous, okay. A simple chip is required to operate push buttons.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um {vocalsound} an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display, and it didn't say specifically, but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: So but yeah.Project Manager: Yeah that makes sense. So presentation from {disfmarker} I guess design would go best. Next.User Interface: That's the end of my presentation.Project Manager: Technical functions or interface conceptUser Interface: I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh interface concept.Project Manager: Yeah that's it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Very long presentation. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, but it has your name on it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well. Um so, somehow that thing's too big, but um {disfmarker} okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition. They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so.User Interface: No. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No. It it it {disfmarker} you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and {disfmarker}User Interface: If the T_V_ is working, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: That's just {disfmarker} I mean it'll {disfmarker} if somebody option of doing some kind of hand dynamo where maybe you crank it or something like that.Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I wanna change that {vocalsound}.User Interface: I don't know if that's really {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I I gotta I gotta flashlight, and uh {disfmarker}User Interface: I don't know we got some qu crazy guys down there in that department so {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: You shake it.Marketing: yeah but it's interesting'cause you shake it like this {vocalsound}.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Like this {vocalsound}.User Interface: So that's the next bullet is the um the kinetic provision of energy,Marketing: And that's on the camera {vocalsound}.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: so it's like that flashlight where you have to shake it {vocalsound}.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager:'Kay.User Interface: Uh we've got solar cells, which I don't think is a very good idea because um you could not use your remote at night {vocalsound} which doesn't make a lot of sense.Project Manager: Mm'kay.User Interface: And finally we've got our cradle o our power cradle idea.Project Manager: Okay so we basically have battery versus cradle hereUser Interface: M battery versus cradle I think is {disfmarker} yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: I like the kinetic.Project Manager: So we have battery versus cradle {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: I g I I figured you would. Yes. {vocalsound} Yeah.User Interface: It could be fun {vocalsound}.Project Manager: It's actually a novel thing because you could sell it a as a novelty, just to be actually serious for a minute here,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: you could {disfmarker}User Interface: Well it is it is more uh {disfmarker} I mean it is more eco-friendly than the than the cradle'cause you're still using power off the grid with the cradle. So umProject Manager: Mm. Hmm.User Interface: our case design. We have uh choices in materials

What were the advantages and disadvantages of a scroll wheel

When everybody was using buttons, a scroll wheel would be new and different, which might push somebody over the edge when they were looking at the new controller versus something else. Plus, many people today were television surfers, and the scroll was a great mechanism for surfing. But there were two problems with the scroll wheel. On one hand, it broke down easily and would bring down the robustness of the whole product. On the other hand, users had to scroll really slowly to keep in pace with the TV's ability to change channels, which would be frustrating.

to what we'd be able to sell something like this forUser Interface: Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now, how much would you pay forMarketing: We have to find cost.User Interface: {disfmarker} with all these features {disfmarker} how much would you pay if you went to the store, and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote, how much would you pay for thatProject Manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.User Interface: I'm just asking you.Project Manager: I'm a student, but on the other hand I would think, mm with my Project Manager salary, I would think {disfmarker} yeah I could probably afford this {disfmarker}User Interface: If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Then you could probably afford this {vocalsound}.Project Manager: uh would I buy it Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel, which I think's a really cool idea, that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly, that would be way too much,User Interface: Oh no no.Project Manager: but the {disfmarker} I would be happy paying over forty for it, I guess, but not much {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say thirty five to forty.Marketing: Yeah, I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.Project Manager:'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Right.Marketing: Designer: You killed my father.User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush.Industrial Designer: Prepare to die. {vocalsound}Marketing: N name.Project Manager: Right. {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control. Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here, and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here, your batteries here, and some sorta electronics. Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys, huh.Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor, and this amplifies your signal,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board. Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot.User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly.Industrial Designer: Nah.User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here, this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno.Marketing: P Yeah.User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is pretty standard remote. So here are options for our power sources. You can use a basic battery, which we've already discussed, um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the Well you had acknowledged that we have more money for this.Project Manager: Yeah well we don't have {vocalsound} it's not that we have more money,Marketing: Didn't you say soProject Manager: we can push up the the price.Marketing: That's what I mean.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We can increase the cost.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: So I don't know I don't know whether having {disfmarker}User Interface: I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to, though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components. But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that, and what sorta price can we make it forMarketing: Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say, okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume, because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit.Project Manager: Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting, our management is really looking for us to push our brand. We're entering a new market here,User Interface: Right.Project Manager: so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay I'm I'm okay with that. I guess what I just want {disfmarker} to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached, and then we have to take this to the next level.Project Manager: But th what's our ballpark as the idea of the scroll wheel though.Project Manager: And if we're marketing it as a high niche product, then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well, yeah, presumably.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Primarily.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah I think so. I I think so.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Now the the only thing I I {vocalsound} {disfmarker} on the interface side of it, is that {vocalsound} I I I see the dilemma. {vocalsound} But if we have the option of of scrolling {vocalsound} at any particular speed, or the option of jumping direct, okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I can go uh {vocalsound} presuming I have, on my television, something that tells me what channel I'm on, I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two. {vocalsound} I know what {disfmarker} because it's on the television. The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it. So {vocalsound} I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem,'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system You understand what I'm sayingUser Interface: I think I know what you might be getting at, or or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh I see so if {disfmarker} maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it, right And then it {disfmarker} that basically {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh no we could read it from the television.User Interface: Well, what about this {disfmarker} what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels,Project Manager: Mm. Well that's quite cool.User Interface: very technical um {vocalsound} descriptions here. A simple chip, which is the least expensive, but I have no numbers to give you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: a regular chip, which is {vocalsound} like the medium porridge {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} medium expense uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chipUser Interface: Yes the difference is, with a simple chip {disfmarker} a simple chip will operate {disfmarker} oh why doesn't this scroll up Previous previous, okay. A simple chip is required to operate push buttons.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um {vocalsound} an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display, and it didn't say specifically, but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: So but yeah.Project Manager: Yeah that makes sense. So presentation from {disfmarker} I guess design would go best. Next.User Interface: That's the end of my presentation.Project Manager: Technical functions or interface conceptUser Interface: I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh interface concept.Project Manager: Yeah that's it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Very long presentation. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, but it has your name on it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well. Um so, somehow that thing's too big, but um {disfmarker} okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition. They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so.User Interface: No. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No. It it it {disfmarker} you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and {disfmarker}User Interface: If the T_V_ is working, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: That's just {disfmarker} I mean it'll {disfmarker} if somebody

Summarize the discussion about functional design.

The main topics in the discussion about functional design were the functions of speech recognition and rolling through the user's favourite channels. The former was abandoned because it would be disturbed by other sounds, while the latter was adopted by the group for its novelty and feasibility.

and it c it {disfmarker}Project Manager: You'd need a display on the th the thing.User Interface: Why It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_.Marketing: Yeah the the television can tell you.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Can.Project Manager: Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it thoughUser Interface: Well you just {disfmarker} it's one extra button. You say programme start, and then type in {disfmarker}Marketing: Put {disfmarker}User Interface:'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type'em in manually.Project Manager: Okay okay.User Interface: So programme start, zero, one, enter, zero, five, enter, {vocalsound} thirty eight, enter, programme end.Project Manager: Okay and yeahMarketing: And then.Project Manager: and that just basically flips between it and it'll go {disfmarker} it sends out zero, five, and then thirty six, and then zero, one again.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that's kinda cool. I like that.Marketing: And again we have another another great marketing tool.Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: We have about three {disfmarker} we have three or four things here.Project Manager: That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be {disfmarker} you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically {vocalsound} come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.Project Manager: Might be, but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.User Interface: Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes, between going through Designer: You killed my father.User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush.Industrial Designer: Prepare to die. {vocalsound}Marketing: N name.Project Manager: Right. {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control. Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here, and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here, your batteries here, and some sorta electronics. Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys, huh.Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor, and this amplifies your signal,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board. Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot.User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly.Industrial Designer: Nah.User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here, this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno.Marketing: P Yeah.User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is pretty standard remote. So here are options for our power sources. You can use a basic battery, which we've already discussed, um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the out. I don't think the cost is justified {vocalsound} for a little bit more uniqueness when we already have that, and I don't s think it's obvious and natural how it would be used.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah I think we have {disfmarker} like and it's not very usable and it will bring down the robustness of the whole thing,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer:'cause it's it it breaks down easier.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: For me I think the scroll wheel actually might not be so bad.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be, but I think he does have a point, i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else, when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels. I think it might be kinda neat to be able to do it like that.Project Manager: But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_Marketing: WProject Manager: because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so {disfmarker}User Interface: Sure.Project Manager: if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels. Or do you have to go through and you wait for itMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} You scroll it a bunch of times and you wait for it to {disfmarker}User Interface: Well I think wh what it would be is like like the m like this, where it's maybe you know a digital wheel, right, where it's where it's quantized into you know certain {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh yeah.Project Manager: Uh I see I see. That's where you {disfmarker}User Interface: more uniqueness you can bring to the product, the easier it is, I believe, for me to market. Uh again the push-buttons I I see are are everywhere. And so we can go with the same thing, but we're gonna be com competing in a in a broader market than if we go with something unique. You know the other thing I thought about was you know, do we go to something like this Make a remote that doesn't look like a remote. It's just another {disfmarker} it's just a an idea, and I don't know {disfmarker}User Interface: Well I dunno about like the flip-phone idea, because {vocalsound} I think, as far as durability th it's not a big {disfmarker} well maybe when it's closed.Marketing: I mean what I see {disfmarker} one of the things one of the things you brought up in an earlier presentation is, when you got children, {vocalsound} their their stuff gets inside the circuitry, they get dirty, they get messy with drinks and stuff.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: This {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: And what I keep throwing out there {disfmarker} I just keep throwing out ideas to try to make this thing look or act or in some way identify itself as unique or different.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: But you guys are the ones that have to c ultimately create the product within cost.Project Manager: Yeah and I guess th th the question th {vocalsound} th that you're being asked right now is whether {disfmarker} is the dock enough of a unique feature to be able to go out and sell that a a as a a very different product, or do we really need the scroll wheel as wellMarketing: Oh okayProject Manager: Because the scroll wheel comes at quite a cost.Marketing: phew.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I think you very technical um {vocalsound} descriptions here. A simple chip, which is the least expensive, but I have no numbers to give you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: a regular chip, which is {vocalsound} like the medium porridge {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} medium expense uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chipUser Interface: Yes the difference is, with a simple chip {disfmarker} a simple chip will operate {disfmarker} oh why doesn't this scroll up Previous previous, okay. A simple chip is required to operate push buttons.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um {vocalsound} an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display, and it didn't say specifically, but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: So but yeah.Project Manager: Yeah that makes sense. So presentation from {disfmarker} I guess design would go best. Next.User Interface: That's the end of my presentation.Project Manager: Technical functions or interface conceptUser Interface: I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh interface concept.Project Manager: Yeah that's it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Very long presentation. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, but it has your name on it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well. Um so, somehow that thing's too big, but um {disfmarker} okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition. They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so.User Interface: No. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No. It it it {disfmarker} you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and {disfmarker}User Interface: If the T_V_ is working, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: That's just {disfmarker} I mean it'll {disfmarker} if somebody

What did the industrial designer and the user interface designer think of speech recognition

The industrial designer and the user interface designer didn't think speech recognition was practical because it would surely be affected by other sounds if the TV was on or people spoke up in the middle of a TV show. Then the project manager proposed to design a button to activate the recognition, but there would be no difference with controlling the TV by just pressing buttons.

and it c it {disfmarker}Project Manager: You'd need a display on the th the thing.User Interface: Why It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_.Marketing: Yeah the the television can tell you.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Can.Project Manager: Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it thoughUser Interface: Well you just {disfmarker} it's one extra button. You say programme start, and then type in {disfmarker}Marketing: Put {disfmarker}User Interface:'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type'em in manually.Project Manager: Okay okay.User Interface: So programme start, zero, one, enter, zero, five, enter, {vocalsound} thirty eight, enter, programme end.Project Manager: Okay and yeahMarketing: And then.Project Manager: and that just basically flips between it and it'll go {disfmarker} it sends out zero, five, and then thirty six, and then zero, one again.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that's kinda cool. I like that.Marketing: And again we have another another great marketing tool.Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: We have about three {disfmarker} we have three or four things here.Project Manager: That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be {disfmarker} you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically {vocalsound} come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.Project Manager: Might be, but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.User Interface: Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes, between going through to what we'd be able to sell something like this forUser Interface: Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now, how much would you pay forMarketing: We have to find cost.User Interface: {disfmarker} with all these features {disfmarker} how much would you pay if you went to the store, and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote, how much would you pay for thatProject Manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.User Interface: I'm just asking you.Project Manager: I'm a student, but on the other hand I would think, mm with my Project Manager salary, I would think {disfmarker} yeah I could probably afford this {disfmarker}User Interface: If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Then you could probably afford this {vocalsound}.Project Manager: uh would I buy it Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel, which I think's a really cool idea, that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly, that would be way too much,User Interface: Oh no no.Project Manager: but the {disfmarker} I would be happy paying over forty for it, I guess, but not much {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say thirty five to forty.Marketing: Yeah, I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.Project Manager:'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Right.Marketing: Designer: You killed my father.User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush.Industrial Designer: Prepare to die. {vocalsound}Marketing: N name.Project Manager: Right. {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control. Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here, and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here, your batteries here, and some sorta electronics. Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys, huh.Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor, and this amplifies your signal,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board. Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot.User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly.Industrial Designer: Nah.User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here, this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno.Marketing: P Yeah.User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is pretty standard remote. So here are options for our power sources. You can use a basic battery, which we've already discussed, um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the out. I don't think the cost is justified {vocalsound} for a little bit more uniqueness when we already have that, and I don't s think it's obvious and natural how it would be used.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah I think we have {disfmarker} like and it's not very usable and it will bring down the robustness of the whole thing,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer:'cause it's it it breaks down easier.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: For me I think the scroll wheel actually might not be so bad.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't know exactly what the increased cost is gonna be, but I think he does have a point, i it might push somebody over the edge when they're looking at our at our remote versus something else, when they see this one has a scroll wheel to go up and down on the channels. I think it might be kinda neat to be able to do it like that.Project Manager: But then that that surely d depends a little on the T_V_Marketing: WProject Manager: because some T_V_s are quite slow at changing channels from like so {disfmarker}User Interface: Sure.Project Manager: if you've got a scroll wheel and you s you have to scroll scroll it really really slowly just so that you're actually keeping in pace with the T_V_'s ability to to change channels. Or do you have to go through and you wait for itMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} You scroll it a bunch of times and you wait for it to {disfmarker}User Interface: Well I think wh what it would be is like like the m like this, where it's maybe you know a digital wheel, right, where it's where it's quantized into you know certain {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh yeah.Project Manager: Uh I see I see. That's where you {disfmarker}User Interface: the idea of the scroll wheel though.Project Manager: And if we're marketing it as a high niche product, then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well, yeah, presumably.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Primarily.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah I think so. I I think so.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Now the the only thing I I {vocalsound} {disfmarker} on the interface side of it, is that {vocalsound} I I I see the dilemma. {vocalsound} But if we have the option of of scrolling {vocalsound} at any particular speed, or the option of jumping direct, okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I can go uh {vocalsound} presuming I have, on my television, something that tells me what channel I'm on, I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two. {vocalsound} I know what {disfmarker} because it's on the television. The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it. So {vocalsound} I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem,'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system You understand what I'm sayingUser Interface: I think I know what you might be getting at, or or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh I see so if {disfmarker} maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it, right And then it {disfmarker} that basically {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh no we could read it from the television.User Interface: Well, what about this {disfmarker} what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels,Project Manager: Mm. Well that's quite cool.User Interface:

What did the group discuss about the function of rolling through the user's favourite channels

According to the user interface designer, to implement this function, the users should press a button to start the program and type in their favourite channels. The project manager liked this idea and the marketing thought it would be another great market tool. In terms of the cost, the project manager believed it wouldn't be too expensive because they could come up with a partnership to produce that quite cheaply, but the marketing held that the technology was available through their own service. Furthermore, this function must be accompanied by a mode switch and an indicator.

to what we'd be able to sell something like this forUser Interface: Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now, how much would you pay forMarketing: We have to find cost.User Interface: {disfmarker} with all these features {disfmarker} how much would you pay if you went to the store, and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote, how much would you pay for thatProject Manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.User Interface: I'm just asking you.Project Manager: I'm a student, but on the other hand I would think, mm with my Project Manager salary, I would think {disfmarker} yeah I could probably afford this {disfmarker}User Interface: If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Then you could probably afford this {vocalsound}.Project Manager: uh would I buy it Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel, which I think's a really cool idea, that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly, that would be way too much,User Interface: Oh no no.Project Manager: but the {disfmarker} I would be happy paying over forty for it, I guess, but not much {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say thirty five to forty.Marketing: Yeah, I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.Project Manager:'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Right.Marketing: the idea of the scroll wheel though.Project Manager: And if we're marketing it as a high niche product, then we're gonna be selling it to people who are buying good T_V_s as well, yeah, presumably.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Primarily.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah I think so. I I think so.Industrial Designer: Yep.Marketing: Now the the only thing I I {vocalsound} {disfmarker} on the interface side of it, is that {vocalsound} I I I see the dilemma. {vocalsound} But if we have the option of of scrolling {vocalsound} at any particular speed, or the option of jumping direct, okay.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So I can go uh {vocalsound} presuming I have, on my television, something that tells me what channel I'm on, I can scroll direct from channel five to channel thirty two. {vocalsound} I know what {disfmarker} because it's on the television. The television tells me what channel it's on when I change it. So {vocalsound} I don't know that really that's that's gonna be a a d problem,'cause the television can go automatically from channel five to channel thirty two with the push of a button. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: So ca can we can we create that kind of interface within a scroll system You understand what I'm sayingUser Interface: I think I know what you might be getting at, or or {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh I see so if {disfmarker} maybe if we had an L_C_D_ up the top that just did a number on it, right And then it {disfmarker} that basically {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh no we could read it from the television.User Interface: Well, what about this {disfmarker} what about if you can programme in your favourite channels into this scroll wheel and you can just like roll through your favourite channels,Project Manager: Mm. Well that's quite cool.User Interface: Well you had acknowledged that we have more money for this.Project Manager: Yeah well we don't have {vocalsound} it's not that we have more money,Marketing: Didn't you say soProject Manager: we can push up the the price.Marketing: That's what I mean.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We can increase the cost.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: So I don't know I don't know whether having {disfmarker}User Interface: I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to, though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components. But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that, and what sorta price can we make it forMarketing: Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say, okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume, because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit.Project Manager: Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting, our management is really looking for us to push our brand. We're entering a new market here,User Interface: Right.Project Manager: so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay I'm I'm okay with that. I guess what I just want {disfmarker} to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached, and then we have to take this to the next level.Project Manager: But th what's our ballpark as Designer: You killed my father.User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush.Industrial Designer: Prepare to die. {vocalsound}Marketing: N name.Project Manager: Right. {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control. Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here, and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here, your batteries here, and some sorta electronics. Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys, huh.Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor, and this amplifies your signal,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board. Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot.User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly.Industrial Designer: Nah.User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here, this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno.Marketing: P Yeah.User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is pretty standard remote. So here are options for our power sources. You can use a basic battery, which we've already discussed, um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the That was that was my my intuition of what the scroll wheel would be.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Ah I see I see what you're talking about now. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's just {disfmarker} it's basically {disfmarker} it it's just a f look and feel thing. It has the same exact functionality as two buttons.Marketing: {vocalsound} I I think there's {disfmarker} you know that uh there are so many people today that are that are surfing {disfmarker} are television surfers, and I see the scroll as a as a great mechanism for surfing.Project Manager: Yeah if you're just sitting there going {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: Instead of going button-to-bu you just {vocalsound} j you'd j j j j j j.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: That's kinda cool actually.Marketing: I really I really think that's a really cool thing for surfing.Project Manager: I like that.User Interface: Now just just so you know though uh you did bring up a point which is very valid, is a lot of T_V_s won't re the T_V_s won't respond exactly the same. Some of them are gonna be kinda slow switching, so you may like queue up like fifteen channel changes, and it'll be like flip, flip, flip.Marketing: Well there's anoProject Manager: Well not n necessarily.User Interface: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: You could basically make it so that it'll {disfmarker} I mean it's just gonna be sending a signal to the T_V_ yeah the T_V_'s ge so if you send about five flip channels, if you did that it's gonna flip once.User Interface: Right.Marketing: That's right.Project Manager: If you do that.User Interface: Yeah it just might be frustrating where you can't make it go as fast as you want,Project Manager: Other than click click click. Yeah.User Interface: but I think once people get used to it {disfmarker} I I do like

Summarize the discussion about price issues.

After discussing the functions, the group thought they were approaching the high-end market, so they could push up the price. In spite of that, the project manager supposed the profit expectation might not be so important as opening up a new market and promoting their brand. In the end, they agreed to price the product at thirty-five to fifty Euros.

and it c it {disfmarker}Project Manager: You'd need a display on the th the thing.User Interface: Why It'll tell you when you flip the channel on the T_V_.Marketing: Yeah the the television can tell you.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Can.Project Manager: Oh yeah yeah no I see what you're talking about. Yeah that's kinda cool. How would you program it thoughUser Interface: Well you just {disfmarker} it's one extra button. You say programme start, and then type in {disfmarker}Marketing: Put {disfmarker}User Interface:'cause you still have the typing you know you'll still have the keypad where you can type'em in manually.Project Manager: Okay okay.User Interface: So programme start, zero, one, enter, zero, five, enter, {vocalsound} thirty eight, enter, programme end.Project Manager: Okay and yeahMarketing: And then.Project Manager: and that just basically flips between it and it'll go {disfmarker} it sends out zero, five, and then thirty six, and then zero, one again.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah that's kinda cool. I like that.Marketing: And again we have another another great marketing tool.Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: We have about three {disfmarker} we have three or four things here.Project Manager: That's not gonna be too expensive because that's gonna be {disfmarker} you're gonna be able to nab that off of computer mouse manufacturers really. You could basically {vocalsound} come up with a partnership to be able to produce that quite cheaply.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: I dunno and an maybe we maybe even have this as in-house technology. This may be something that's available through our own uh through our own services.Project Manager: Might be, but tha that's not gonna be such a costly feature. The problem we're gonna have is making it robust. Making it last.User Interface: Oh well we also have to determine in some manner how to switch between modes, between going through to what we'd be able to sell something like this forUser Interface: Well y yeah. Let's let's try and think now, how much would you pay forMarketing: We have to find cost.User Interface: {disfmarker} with all these features {disfmarker} how much would you pay if you went to the store, and you were in the market f to replace your T_V_ remote, how much would you pay for thatProject Manager: But you've gotta think who our target market is because I I'm not our target market.User Interface: I'm just asking you.Project Manager: I'm a student, but on the other hand I would think, mm with my Project Manager salary, I would think {disfmarker} yeah I could probably afford this {disfmarker}User Interface: If {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Then you could probably afford this {vocalsound}.Project Manager: uh would I buy it Maybe. If I had a cool new T_V_ and this was r looking really slick and it had the dock and it had the scroll wheel, which I think's a really cool idea, that would sell me on it a little. Then maybe you know. I do I don't think I'd go over a hundred Euro certainly, that would be way too much,User Interface: Oh no no.Project Manager: but the {disfmarker} I would be happy paying over forty for it, I guess, but not much {disfmarker}User Interface: I would say thirty five to forty.Marketing: Yeah, I was gonna say thirty five to fifty.Project Manager:'Kay. Thirty five to fifty Euros is our sales bracket okay. So the question is what we ca we make it for.User Interface: Okay.Marketing: Because one of th one of the things we're marketing about this product is that this is the last one you will ever need to buy for your television.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: Right.Marketing: Well you had acknowledged that we have more money for this.Project Manager: Yeah well we don't have {vocalsound} it's not that we have more money,Marketing: Didn't you say soProject Manager: we can push up the the price.Marketing: That's what I mean.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: We can increase the cost.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager:'Kay.Marketing: So I don't know I don't know whether having {disfmarker}User Interface: I just wanna make sure everybody's on board with it. So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. So we really need to be sure as to what we can push the cost up to, though we haven't got to a stage where we're ready to pin down the price of components. But I'd say what sorta price are we looking to be able to sell something like that, and what sorta price can we make it forMarketing: Well I think th I think the design and technology has to come back and say, okay to create this product we see it's gonna cost us this much for this volume, because we do have a volume target of of fifty million profit.Project Manager: Yeah no I I think that's where we really should be more flexible than anything else because as we said in the last meeting, our management is really looking for us to push our brand. We're entering a new market here,User Interface: Right.Project Manager: so I think the the profit expectation for this one product is maybe not as important as being able to {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay I'm I'm okay with that. I guess what I just want {disfmarker} to me the next step is for these guys to come come in with the design proposal w with the cost estimate attached, and then we have to take this to the next level.Project Manager: But th what's our ballpark as Designer: You killed my father.User Interface: {vocalsound} Sorry I did this in a bit of a rush.Industrial Designer: Prepare to die. {vocalsound}Marketing: N name.Project Manager: Right. {vocalsound}User Interface: So so here's a look inside your really old-looking remote control. Um you've got {vocalsound} a printed {vocalsound} a printed uh circuit board here, and you've got all these buttons which kinda press down little rubber {vocalsound} nubbies into these little holes that activate {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: We've all broke a remote control ri um s yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah we've all broken a remote control.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I've {disfmarker}User Interface: So you've also got um {disfmarker} you've got your chip here, your batteries here, and some sorta electronics. Um {disfmarker}Marketing: I just love you tech guys, huh.Industrial Designer: Yeah there's a thingy and a dingy and {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} You press this and it does thUser Interface: Well {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah y do jabber {vocalsound}User Interface: so you've got {disfmarker} here's here's a transistor, and this amplifies your signal,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: um you've got the L_E_D_ here on the end of the uh uh on the end of the printed circuit board. Um you've got a couple diodes here for I don't know who and whatnot {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} I dunno who and whatnot.User Interface: So {disfmarker} {vocalsound} exactly.Industrial Designer: Nah.User Interface: So um we've got a {disfmarker} i in this in this uh drawing he uh in this example here, this is a eighteen pin um uh chip {vocalsound} I dunno.Marketing: P Yeah.User Interface: Uh it's two double A_ batteries.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: This is pretty standard remote. So here are options for our power sources. You can use a basic battery, which we've already discussed, um {vocalsound} th our tech department also said we have the very technical um {vocalsound} descriptions here. A simple chip, which is the least expensive, but I have no numbers to give you,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: a regular chip, which is {vocalsound} like the medium porridge {disfmarker} the {vocalsound} medium expense uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} D do we have actually any concept of what the difference is between a simple chip and an advanced chipUser Interface: Yes the difference is, with a simple chip {disfmarker} a simple chip will operate {disfmarker} oh why doesn't this scroll up Previous previous, okay. A simple chip is required to operate push buttons.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um {vocalsound} an advanced chip is required to to operate um the L_C_D_ display, and it didn't say specifically, but I I have a hunch that a regular chip is gonna be the scroll wheel and the multiple scroll wheels.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: So but yeah.Project Manager: Yeah that makes sense. So presentation from {disfmarker} I guess design would go best. Next.User Interface: That's the end of my presentation.Project Manager: Technical functions or interface conceptUser Interface: I think {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh interface concept.Project Manager: Yeah that's it.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Very long presentation. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, but it has your name on it.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that doesn't bo bode well for it for it tats as well. Um so, somehow that thing's too big, but um {disfmarker} okay um our uh manufacturing division wanted the speech recognition. They say they could put it to work but um we don't think so.User Interface: No. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No. It it it {disfmarker} you'll be you know be affected by the by the other speech and {disfmarker}User Interface: If the T_V_ is working, yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: That's just {disfmarker} I mean it'll {disfmarker} if somebody

Summarize the whole meeting.

This was a conceptual design meeting, at which some decisions on product components, functional design, and pricing were made. The group spent a lot of time discussing the components of the device, especially the scroll wheel and power source. The main topics in the discussion about functional design were speech recognition and the function of rolling through the user's favourite channels. The former was abandoned while the latter was adopted by the group for its novelty and feasibility. After discussing the functions, the group thought they were approaching the high-end market, so they could push up the price. In spite of that, the project manager supposed the profit expectation might not be so important as opening up a new market and promoting their brand. In the end, they agreed to price the product at thirty-five to fifty Euros.

thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True.Project Manager: So on the technical side of it it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I'd say it's about a a twoishIndustrial Designer: Two.User Interface: It's about in the mid in the middle somewhere,Marketing: Two.User Interface: maybe, yeah, I dunno.Marketing: Three.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Maybe three, yeah.Marketing: {gap} three. So criteria three is is it easy to useProject Manager: Easy to use.Marketing: I think it's a one, I think.Project Manager: I'd say it's I wouldn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: not if you're left-handed it's not. I would give it a I would give it a two,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Two,Project Manager:'cause i i it i it i it is more geared for right-handed people than left-handed people, but {disfmarker}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: But if we make a right-handed and a left-handed thenUser Interface: If we're gonna have one left-handed and one right-handed then I would give it a one, but otherwise otherwise a two.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Give it a t give it a two.Marketing: Yeah, okay. {vocalsound}'Kay, criteria four is costs. {gap}Project Manager: Cost. It's come in under budget.Marketing: {vocalsound}'s great.Project Manager: So that's a definite one.User Interface: Yeah. That was great.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Amount of buttons.Marketing: Like the amount of buttons,Project Manager: Contains only the necessary buttons.Marketing:'cause people like a lot le like {disfmarker} So it's a oneProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Um criteria six. R_S_I_ is it good againstIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes s yeah.Marketing: Yes. Very good.Project Manager: So it's anti-R_S_I_.Marketing: It's one. And criteria seven, which is the last one, does it get lostIndustrial Designer: It's yellow.Marketing: Is it easy to get lostProject Manager: I don't think it's gonna get lost easily.User Interface: {vocalsound} It is very bright, yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No But it is smallish.Industrial There you go.User Interface: So that's that's {vocalsound} our end of things wha uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, very good, yeah.User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's come up with what we've you know, the things that's what we've {disfmarker} what we were looking at doing, hasn't it, {gap} all seems to be there.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Well done.Marketing: And all the playing around is uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um before we move on {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, I'm just {disfmarker} do you wanna plug inProject Manager: I need that cable.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Thank you. Yeah. Um. One thing I do need to do {disfmarker} we need to look at, is the costs.User Interface: The costs, was that what you saidIndustrial Designer: Play-Doh is very cheap. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Play-Doh won't last very long everybody'll go like, oops, it's gone. {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But it's edible.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Chew proof.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, they'll buy more of them if you eat them, {gap}.User Interface: That was the main criteria from the last meeting, it had to be chew proof.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. Uh right. {vocalsound} Okay, now I think we'll do this {disfmarker} I could do {disfmarker} you know, I can do this o on my own or I could do it with you,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Oh ho-ho.Project Manager: but it's just easy enough to go through it with you, so we're going for the kinetic power.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the electronics, we decided on it being just a simple, the easiest thing that's inside it. Ooh.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} the case, we've gone for the double curved. Um and it's made out of rubber. {vocalsound} The interface is push-buttons. And button supplements well they're in diff special colours, aren't Well, you can break the ornaments, but you won't break that.Marketing: No {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. So all in all, I think we've done very well.Industrial Designer: Mm yep.Project Manager: Well done everybody.User Interface: Right, you too.Marketing: Yay.Project Manager: Um. Drinks are on the company.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: In the corporate bar that's next to the corporate swimming pool on the top floor that we're that've all just gained access to.User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Glad to hear that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. That's it.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Well, as far as I t as far as I know. Um.Marketing: Yep. We haven't got the five minute left thing yet.Project Manager: No. Anyone wanna play I spy {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I guess it's probably better that we wrap it up than have five minutes of silence. Should we call the day thenProject Manager: Yeah, I guess. I mean we're gonna get asked to fill out another questionnaire.User Interface: Uh, right.Project Manager: Um. It's probably gonna be the same as one we've done before.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: But I'm not the authority to say that it is.Marketing: In {gap} project.Project Manager: Um how does everyone feel about the technology that's been used in this The sort of using of the the pens and writing on these special pads and all thatMarketing: I love it. {vocalsound} I love it. {vocalsound} I think it's cool.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Being all wired up and a vibrating pen and {disfmarker} it's cool.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Being watched. Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Your moment to shine.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Wow.Project Manager: I thi you know, I'd I'd n yeah, as we said earlier, I've not {disfmarker} never seen that before. {gap} something that t the whiteboardIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: thingy, {vocalsound} that's great. Um, but a p a pen with a camera on it, I don't think it's such a new thing. I mean it's i or in such a new idea. It would be different if it was sort of hand writing recognition stuff, but as it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: it's literally that'll come up on a computer screen as a picture file rather than actual text.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Right, I think they do want to do hand writing recognition on that, it's just the first step.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Logitech.User Interface: I guess we should end this, since we're off off topic. So. Shall we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Meeting adjourned.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}User Interface: So at this stage, I mean, is this the last meeting of the project We don't uh have another one after it's gone gone to marke market or somethingMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: No,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: I think when this meeting's finished like officially, there b we'll get a uh questionnaire to fill in.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y Oh reallyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or six, uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Just start summarising now. {vocalsound} You can reply to the same message.Project Manager: I haven't got message.Marketing: See summary, there. If you just reply to that one.User Interface: So there's no way to like predict what our {disfmarker}'Cause we had a {disfmarker} we originally had a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} As far as our financial uh um goals, we had a specific number for profits that we wanted. It was fifty mil fifty million {disfmarker}Marketing: Was it was it fifty or fiveUser Interface: I don't remember. But there's not a way to compute that, I mean, since we saved on the on the production cost, do we know how much we're making on profitProject Manager: It gets handed over to another department.Marketing: Depends how much we sell.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager: What our what our project was was to come up with the product, basically.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: {gap} the for the {disfmarker} and just basically is it it come {disfmarker} can {disfmarker} is it within budget. When it c when it comes to all the other things of how to sell it and, you know, the b the profits and all that that's other departments {disfmarker} it's another team that actually work out the mai the {disfmarker}User Interface: But we have a vested interest {gap}Project Manager: oh yeah, the {disfmarker} all the guys in the profit sharing, yeah.User theyMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So {gap} special colours.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: It's better for {disfmarker}Project Manager: Special form, yeah, they're a special form there in shapes and stuff.User Interface: Yeah, I mean, {vocalsound} these these ones on the side are curved kind of, so {disfmarker}Marketing: And special material.Project Manager: Yep. Yeah. Um. Are they made out of any special materialIndustrial Designer: Rubber.Project Manager: No they're not. They're not made out of wood or titanium or rubber or anything, they're just simple {disfmarker}User Interface: The buttons are rubber.Marketing: Well they're rubber, aren't theyProject Manager: Okay. Right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: So let's see if that comes within budget. And it does. That is gonna cost uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: We're under budget.Project Manager: Yeah. That's gonna cost ten ten Euro seventy cents a unit to make. And our target was it had to come in at under twelve fifty.User Interface: That's cool. Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: So,User Interface: And we're actua actually making a better profit than we expected.Project Manager: this is all very very good. The bosses will be very pleased.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, let's just save this so I can e-mail it to you. Uh.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Save it in {gap} save it in the uh {vocalsound} my documents.Marketing: It's already saved, I think.Project Manager: Splendid. Okay. So uh, that's {gap} done with this with this um doodah, so you're {gap}. Gonna do {disfmarker} what you were gonna do,Marketing: Thank you. Mm.Project Manager: your evaluation.Marketing: Oh, yeah. This is where we all get to {vocalsound} I get to write on the, oops, on the board. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh.'S function {disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ eight.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap} I love the smell of that Play-Doh.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah,Project Manager: {vocalsound} I cou {gap}. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.User Interface: have some have some.Marketing: Okay. So,

What was the appearance of the prototype as shared in the presentation

The double curved prototype with anti-RSI buttons was ergonomic and comfortable to the size of the hand and to touch as it was made of rubber. The prototype was also easy and convenient to use as the important keys were right at the fingers. On the other hand, it brought fashion to electronics as the remote was offered in colours of black, yellow, blue and red, which contained fruit and vegetable elements. It was innovative and looked different so it would stand out from other remotes in the market.

There you go.User Interface: So that's that's {vocalsound} our end of things wha uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, very good, yeah.User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's come up with what we've you know, the things that's what we've {disfmarker} what we were looking at doing, hasn't it, {gap} all seems to be there.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Well done.Marketing: And all the playing around is uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um before we move on {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, I'm just {disfmarker} do you wanna plug inProject Manager: I need that cable.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Thank you. Yeah. Um. One thing I do need to do {disfmarker} we need to look at, is the costs.User Interface: The costs, was that what you saidIndustrial Designer: Play-Doh is very cheap. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Play-Doh won't last very long everybody'll go like, oops, it's gone. {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But it's edible.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Chew proof.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, they'll buy more of them if you eat them, {gap}.User Interface: That was the main criteria from the last meeting, it had to be chew proof.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. Uh right. {vocalsound} Okay, now I think we'll do this {disfmarker} I could do {disfmarker} you know, I can do this o on my own or I could do it with you,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Oh ho-ho.Project Manager: but it's just easy enough to go through it with you, so we're going for the kinetic power.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the electronics, we decided on it being just a simple, the easiest thing that's inside it. Ooh.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} the case, we've gone for the double curved. Um and it's made out of rubber. {vocalsound} The interface is push-buttons. And button supplements well they're in diff special colours, aren't Well, you can break the ornaments, but you won't break that.Marketing: No {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. So all in all, I think we've done very well.Industrial Designer: Mm yep.Project Manager: Well done everybody.User Interface: Right, you too.Marketing: Yay.Project Manager: Um. Drinks are on the company.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: In the corporate bar that's next to the corporate swimming pool on the top floor that we're that've all just gained access to.User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Glad to hear that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. That's it.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Well, as far as I t as far as I know. Um.Marketing: Yep. We haven't got the five minute left thing yet.Project Manager: No. Anyone wanna play I spy {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I guess it's probably better that we wrap it up than have five minutes of silence. Should we call the day thenProject Manager: Yeah, I guess. I mean we're gonna get asked to fill out another questionnaire.User Interface: Uh, right.Project Manager: Um. It's probably gonna be the same as one we've done before.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: But I'm not the authority to say that it is.Marketing: In {gap} project.Project Manager: Um how does everyone feel about the technology that's been used in this The sort of using of the the pens and writing on these special pads and all thatMarketing: I love it. {vocalsound} I love it. {vocalsound} I think it's cool.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Being all wired up and a vibrating pen and {disfmarker} it's cool.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Being watched. Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Your moment to shine.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Wow.Project Manager: I thi you know, I'd I'd n yeah, as we said earlier, I've not {disfmarker} never seen that before. {gap} something that t the whiteboardIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: thingy, {vocalsound} that's great. Um, but a p a pen with a camera on it, I don't think it's such a new thing. I mean it's i or in such a new idea. It would be different if it was sort of hand writing recognition stuff, but as it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: it's literally that'll come up on a computer screen as a picture file rather than actual text.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Right, I think they do want to do hand writing recognition on that, it's just the first step.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Logitech.User Interface: I guess we should end this, since we're off off topic. So. Shall we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Meeting adjourned.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True.Project Manager: So on the technical side of it it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I'd say it's about a a twoishIndustrial Designer: Two.User Interface: It's about in the mid in the middle somewhere,Marketing: Two.User Interface: maybe, yeah, I dunno.Marketing: Three.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Maybe three, yeah.Marketing: {gap} three. So criteria three is is it easy to useProject Manager: Easy to use.Marketing: I think it's a one, I think.Project Manager: I'd say it's I wouldn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: not if you're left-handed it's not. I would give it a I would give it a two,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Two,Project Manager:'cause i i it i it i it is more geared for right-handed people than left-handed people, but {disfmarker}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: But if we make a right-handed and a left-handed thenUser Interface: If we're gonna have one left-handed and one right-handed then I would give it a one, but otherwise otherwise a two.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Give it a t give it a two.Marketing: Yeah, okay. {vocalsound}'Kay, criteria four is costs. {gap}Project Manager: Cost. It's come in under budget.Marketing: {vocalsound}'s great.Project Manager: So that's a definite one.User Interface: Yeah. That was great.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Amount of buttons.Marketing: Like the amount of buttons,Project Manager: Contains only the necessary buttons.Marketing:'cause people like a lot le like {disfmarker} So it's a oneProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Um criteria six. R_S_I_ is it good againstIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes s yeah.Marketing: Yes. Very good.Project Manager: So it's anti-R_S_I_.Marketing: It's one. And criteria seven, which is the last one, does it get lostIndustrial Designer: It's yellow.Marketing: Is it easy to get lostProject Manager: I don't think it's gonna get lost easily.User Interface: {vocalsound} It is very bright, yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No But it is smallish.Industrial Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}User Interface: So at this stage, I mean, is this the last meeting of the project We don't uh have another one after it's gone gone to marke market or somethingMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: No,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: I think when this meeting's finished like officially, there b we'll get a uh questionnaire to fill in.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y Oh reallyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or six, uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Just start summarising now. {vocalsound} You can reply to the same message.Project Manager: I haven't got message.Marketing: See summary, there. If you just reply to that one.User Interface: So there's no way to like predict what our {disfmarker}'Cause we had a {disfmarker} we originally had a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} As far as our financial uh um goals, we had a specific number for profits that we wanted. It was fifty mil fifty million {disfmarker}Marketing: Was it was it fifty or fiveUser Interface: I don't remember. But there's not a way to compute that, I mean, since we saved on the on the production cost, do we know how much we're making on profitProject Manager: It gets handed over to another department.Marketing: Depends how much we sell.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager: What our what our project was was to come up with the product, basically.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: {gap} the for the {disfmarker} and just basically is it it come {disfmarker} can {disfmarker} is it within budget. When it c when it comes to all the other things of how to sell it and, you know, the b the profits and all that that's other departments {disfmarker} it's another team that actually work out the mai the {disfmarker}User Interface: But we have a vested interest {gap}Project Manager: oh yeah, the {disfmarker} all the guys in the profit sharing, yeah.User is volume up, your pinkie is volume down.Marketing: What's the big blue thingUser Interface: That's the lock button, has a L_ L_ on itMarketing: Oh cool.User Interface: and then the M_ is a mute button. And then it also has digitProject Manager: {gap} what button Um. Oh mute.User Interface: For muting the uh {disfmarker}Marketing: And mute.User Interface: Um and then then you can also {disfmarker} there's a numeric keypad on the top so you can key directly to the to the channel if you want.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: So it's really basic functionalities as far as what keys are available, but we think it's very comfortable and very innovative and it looks different.Project Manager: That certainly does.Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: So all the, I mean the important keys are right at your f f you know right at uh at a convenient place for you to to access them.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: Which is ant anti-R_S_I_.User Interface: So you don't you {disfmarker} Yeah. It should be.Project Manager: Mm.User Interface: And it's also conformable to the size of your hand. I mean if that's too big, it's a rubber remote, so you can, you knowProject Manager: Yeah.'S great.User Interface: change that. So d does that uh what {disfmarker} mesh with what you guys were hoping and for and expecting or does it {disfmarker}Marketing: Oh it's so cute.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I have one thing about it, but it's a small thing, but it'd mean we'd have to make a right-handed one and a left-handed one.Industrial Designer: Oh right, yeah.User Interface: Ah, that's good thinking, yeah.Project Manager: But, that's I don't see why that's not possible.User Interface: Yeah, if we build rocket ships why can't we build left-handed and right-handed uh remotes.Project Manager: Yeah. {gap} They make left-handed scissors, you know. {vocalsound}User

What buttons were on the prototype as shared in the presentation

The button to the thumb was the power button, the index and middle finger were channels up and down, whereas the ring finger and pinkie were volumes up and down. The blue button with the inscription of" L" was to lock, whereas the one with" M" was to mute. Moreover, a numeric keypad was on the top so users could directly key to a channel.

Well, you can break the ornaments, but you won't break that.Marketing: No {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. So all in all, I think we've done very well.Industrial Designer: Mm yep.Project Manager: Well done everybody.User Interface: Right, you too.Marketing: Yay.Project Manager: Um. Drinks are on the company.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: In the corporate bar that's next to the corporate swimming pool on the top floor that we're that've all just gained access to.User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Glad to hear that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. That's it.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Well, as far as I t as far as I know. Um.Marketing: Yep. We haven't got the five minute left thing yet.Project Manager: No. Anyone wanna play I spy {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I guess it's probably better that we wrap it up than have five minutes of silence. Should we call the day thenProject Manager: Yeah, I guess. I mean we're gonna get asked to fill out another questionnaire.User Interface: Uh, right.Project Manager: Um. It's probably gonna be the same as one we've done before.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: But I'm not the authority to say that it is.Marketing: In {gap} project.Project Manager: Um how does everyone feel about the technology that's been used in this The sort of using of the the pens and writing on these special pads and all thatMarketing: I love it. {vocalsound} I love it. {vocalsound} I think it's cool.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Being all wired up and a vibrating pen and {disfmarker} it's cool.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Being watched. Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Your moment to shine.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Wow.Project Manager: I thi you know, I'd I'd n yeah, as we said earlier, I've not {disfmarker} never seen that before. {gap} something that t the whiteboardIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: thingy, {vocalsound} that's great. Um, but a p a pen with a camera on it, I don't think it's such a new thing. I mean it's i or in such a new idea. It would be different if it was sort of hand writing recognition stuff, but as it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: it's literally that'll come up on a computer screen as a picture file rather than actual text.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Right, I think they do want to do hand writing recognition on that, it's just the first step.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Logitech.User Interface: I guess we should end this, since we're off off topic. So. Shall we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Meeting adjourned.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True.Project Manager: So on the technical side of it it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I'd say it's about a a twoishIndustrial Designer: Two.User Interface: It's about in the mid in the middle somewhere,Marketing: Two.User Interface: maybe, yeah, I dunno.Marketing: Three.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Maybe three, yeah.Marketing: {gap} three. So criteria three is is it easy to useProject Manager: Easy to use.Marketing: I think it's a one, I think.Project Manager: I'd say it's I wouldn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: not if you're left-handed it's not. I would give it a I would give it a two,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Two,Project Manager:'cause i i it i it i it is more geared for right-handed people than left-handed people, but {disfmarker}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: But if we make a right-handed and a left-handed thenUser Interface: If we're gonna have one left-handed and one right-handed then I would give it a one, but otherwise otherwise a two.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Give it a t give it a two.Marketing: Yeah, okay. {vocalsound}'Kay, criteria four is costs. {gap}Project Manager: Cost. It's come in under budget.Marketing: {vocalsound}'s great.Project Manager: So that's a definite one.User Interface: Yeah. That was great.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Amount of buttons.Marketing: Like the amount of buttons,Project Manager: Contains only the necessary buttons.Marketing:'cause people like a lot le like {disfmarker} So it's a oneProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Um criteria six. R_S_I_ is it good againstIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes s yeah.Marketing: Yes. Very good.Project Manager: So it's anti-R_S_I_.Marketing: It's one. And criteria seven, which is the last one, does it get lostIndustrial Designer: It's yellow.Marketing: Is it easy to get lostProject Manager: I don't think it's gonna get lost easily.User Interface: {vocalsound} It is very bright, yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No But it is smallish.Industrial Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}User Interface: So at this stage, I mean, is this the last meeting of the project We don't uh have another one after it's gone gone to marke market or somethingMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: No,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: I think when this meeting's finished like officially, there b we'll get a uh questionnaire to fill in.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y Oh reallyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or six, uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Just start summarising now. {vocalsound} You can reply to the same message.Project Manager: I haven't got message.Marketing: See summary, there. If you just reply to that one.User Interface: So there's no way to like predict what our {disfmarker}'Cause we had a {disfmarker} we originally had a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} As far as our financial uh um goals, we had a specific number for profits that we wanted. It was fifty mil fifty million {disfmarker}Marketing: Was it was it fifty or fiveUser Interface: I don't remember. But there's not a way to compute that, I mean, since we saved on the on the production cost, do we know how much we're making on profitProject Manager: It gets handed over to another department.Marketing: Depends how much we sell.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager: What our what our project was was to come up with the product, basically.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: {gap} the for the {disfmarker} and just basically is it it come {disfmarker} can {disfmarker} is it within budget. When it c when it comes to all the other things of how to sell it and, you know, the b the profits and all that that's other departments {disfmarker} it's another team that actually work out the mai the {disfmarker}User Interface: But we have a vested interest {gap}Project Manager: oh yeah, the {disfmarker} all the guys in the profit sharing, yeah.User Interface: prof profit sharing {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. Yeah, that's it. You know, we've we've we've made i we've madeMarketing: We finished an hour earlier. {vocalsound}Project Manager: we've designed the product, we've ma we've got the prototype, it's within budget, it's {disfmarker} does everything that we wanted it to do. It's new, it's it's um something that uh {vocalsound} that isn't out there already.User Interface: I think actually {disfmarker} and one advantage of of this is that after the uh, you know, after this fad of fruit and vegetables passes this will still be c a cool remote, you know.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: We're not we're not you know, tying tying our cart to that one horse {gap}. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Well, this is very marketable in that it is it's it's something that's kind of new and looks a bit quirky for people who want that,Marketing: Definitely.Project Manager: it's {disfmarker} that it's um, hang on, I wrote it down here somewhere {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh no I thi I put it in one of my e-mails that I sent off. Um that, you know, it's marketable in the sense that it's {disfmarker} whilst all these other remotes uh actually do give you repetitive strain injury, our one does the complete opposite, you know,User Interface: Mm. Mm.Project Manager: so that's something that's new, which is one of the criteria they asked us to come up with something with something new.User Interface: Mm. It make watching T_V_ healthy.Project Manager: Yeah, and if you're not having a good time with the T_V_, you can f throw it about, you know.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's fine, it's kid proof.Marketing: Just don't sh don't throw it at any of the ornaments and break them.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager: There you go.User Interface: So that's that's {vocalsound} our end of things wha uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, very good, yeah.User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's come up with what we've you know, the things that's what we've {disfmarker} what we were looking at doing, hasn't it, {gap} all seems to be there.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Well done.Marketing: And all the playing around is uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um before we move on {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, I'm just {disfmarker} do you wanna plug inProject Manager: I need that cable.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Thank you. Yeah. Um. One thing I do need to do {disfmarker} we need to look at, is the costs.User Interface: The costs, was that what you saidIndustrial Designer: Play-Doh is very cheap. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Play-Doh won't last very long everybody'll go like, oops, it's gone. {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But it's edible.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Chew proof.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, they'll buy more of them if you eat them, {gap}.User Interface: That was the main criteria from the last meeting, it had to be chew proof.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. Uh right. {vocalsound} Okay, now I think we'll do this {disfmarker} I could do {disfmarker} you know, I can do this o on my own or I could do it with you,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Oh ho-ho.Project Manager: but it's just easy enough to go through it with you, so we're going for the kinetic power.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the electronics, we decided on it being just a simple, the easiest thing that's inside it. Ooh.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} the case, we've gone for the double curved. Um and it's made out of rubber. {vocalsound} The interface is push-buttons. And button supplements well they're in diff special colours, aren't

What did the team think of Project Manager's suggestion of making a right- and left-handed remote during the presentation of the prototype

Industrial Designer recalled that some acquaintances have left- and right-handed people in the family but they all use the right-handed mouse for the computer. Marketing added that the remote only required pressing buttons and it would not be too hard. However, in the end, they agreed to have both in stock to make them more appealing.

Well, you can break the ornaments, but you won't break that.Marketing: No {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. So all in all, I think we've done very well.Industrial Designer: Mm yep.Project Manager: Well done everybody.User Interface: Right, you too.Marketing: Yay.Project Manager: Um. Drinks are on the company.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: In the corporate bar that's next to the corporate swimming pool on the top floor that we're that've all just gained access to.User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Glad to hear that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. That's it.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Well, as far as I t as far as I know. Um.Marketing: Yep. We haven't got the five minute left thing yet.Project Manager: No. Anyone wanna play I spy {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I guess it's probably better that we wrap it up than have five minutes of silence. Should we call the day thenProject Manager: Yeah, I guess. I mean we're gonna get asked to fill out another questionnaire.User Interface: Uh, right.Project Manager: Um. It's probably gonna be the same as one we've done before.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: But I'm not the authority to say that it is.Marketing: In {gap} project.Project Manager: Um how does everyone feel about the technology that's been used in this The sort of using of the the pens and writing on these special pads and all thatMarketing: I love it. {vocalsound} I love it. {vocalsound} I think it's cool.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Being all wired up and a vibrating pen and {disfmarker} it's cool.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Being watched. Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Your moment to shine.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Wow.Project Manager: I thi you know, I'd I'd n yeah, as we said earlier, I've not {disfmarker} never seen that before. {gap} something that t the whiteboardIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: thingy, {vocalsound} that's great. Um, but a p a pen with a camera on it, I don't think it's such a new thing. I mean it's i or in such a new idea. It would be different if it was sort of hand writing recognition stuff, but as it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: it's literally that'll come up on a computer screen as a picture file rather than actual text.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Right, I think they do want to do hand writing recognition on that, it's just the first step.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Logitech.User Interface: I guess we should end this, since we're off off topic. So. Shall we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Meeting adjourned.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True.Project Manager: So on the technical side of it it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I'd say it's about a a twoishIndustrial Designer: Two.User Interface: It's about in the mid in the middle somewhere,Marketing: Two.User Interface: maybe, yeah, I dunno.Marketing: Three.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Maybe three, yeah.Marketing: {gap} three. So criteria three is is it easy to useProject Manager: Easy to use.Marketing: I think it's a one, I think.Project Manager: I'd say it's I wouldn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: not if you're left-handed it's not. I would give it a I would give it a two,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Two,Project Manager:'cause i i it i it i it is more geared for right-handed people than left-handed people, but {disfmarker}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: But if we make a right-handed and a left-handed thenUser Interface: If we're gonna have one left-handed and one right-handed then I would give it a one, but otherwise otherwise a two.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Give it a t give it a two.Marketing: Yeah, okay. {vocalsound}'Kay, criteria four is costs. {gap}Project Manager: Cost. It's come in under budget.Marketing: {vocalsound}'s great.Project Manager: So that's a definite one.User Interface: Yeah. That was great.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Amount of buttons.Marketing: Like the amount of buttons,Project Manager: Contains only the necessary buttons.Marketing:'cause people like a lot le like {disfmarker} So it's a oneProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Um criteria six. R_S_I_ is it good againstIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes s yeah.Marketing: Yes. Very good.Project Manager: So it's anti-R_S_I_.Marketing: It's one. And criteria seven, which is the last one, does it get lostIndustrial Designer: It's yellow.Marketing: Is it easy to get lostProject Manager: I don't think it's gonna get lost easily.User Interface: {vocalsound} It is very bright, yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No But it is smallish.Industrial There you go.User Interface: So that's that's {vocalsound} our end of things wha uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, very good, yeah.User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's come up with what we've you know, the things that's what we've {disfmarker} what we were looking at doing, hasn't it, {gap} all seems to be there.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Well done.Marketing: And all the playing around is uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um before we move on {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, I'm just {disfmarker} do you wanna plug inProject Manager: I need that cable.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Thank you. Yeah. Um. One thing I do need to do {disfmarker} we need to look at, is the costs.User Interface: The costs, was that what you saidIndustrial Designer: Play-Doh is very cheap. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Play-Doh won't last very long everybody'll go like, oops, it's gone. {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But it's edible.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Chew proof.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, they'll buy more of them if you eat them, {gap}.User Interface: That was the main criteria from the last meeting, it had to be chew proof.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. Uh right. {vocalsound} Okay, now I think we'll do this {disfmarker} I could do {disfmarker} you know, I can do this o on my own or I could do it with you,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Oh ho-ho.Project Manager: but it's just easy enough to go through it with you, so we're going for the kinetic power.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the electronics, we decided on it being just a simple, the easiest thing that's inside it. Ooh.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} the case, we've gone for the double curved. Um and it's made out of rubber. {vocalsound} The interface is push-buttons. And button supplements well they're in diff special colours, aren't Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}User Interface: So at this stage, I mean, is this the last meeting of the project We don't uh have another one after it's gone gone to marke market or somethingMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: No,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: I think when this meeting's finished like officially, there b we'll get a uh questionnaire to fill in.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y Oh reallyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or six, uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Just start summarising now. {vocalsound} You can reply to the same message.Project Manager: I haven't got message.Marketing: See summary, there. If you just reply to that one.User Interface: So there's no way to like predict what our {disfmarker}'Cause we had a {disfmarker} we originally had a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} As far as our financial uh um goals, we had a specific number for profits that we wanted. It was fifty mil fifty million {disfmarker}Marketing: Was it was it fifty or fiveUser Interface: I don't remember. But there's not a way to compute that, I mean, since we saved on the on the production cost, do we know how much we're making on profitProject Manager: It gets handed over to another department.Marketing: Depends how much we sell.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager: What our what our project was was to come up with the product, basically.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: {gap} the for the {disfmarker} and just basically is it it come {disfmarker} can {disfmarker} is it within budget. When it c when it comes to all the other things of how to sell it and, you know, the b the profits and all that that's other departments {disfmarker} it's another team that actually work out the mai the {disfmarker}User Interface: But we have a vested interest {gap}Project Manager: oh yeah, the {disfmarker} all the guys in the profit sharing, yeah.User theyMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So {gap} special colours.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: It's better for {disfmarker}Project Manager: Special form, yeah, they're a special form there in shapes and stuff.User Interface: Yeah, I mean, {vocalsound} these these ones on the side are curved kind of, so {disfmarker}Marketing: And special material.Project Manager: Yep. Yeah. Um. Are they made out of any special materialIndustrial Designer: Rubber.Project Manager: No they're not. They're not made out of wood or titanium or rubber or anything, they're just simple {disfmarker}User Interface: The buttons are rubber.Marketing: Well they're rubber, aren't theyProject Manager: Okay. Right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: So let's see if that comes within budget. And it does. That is gonna cost uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: We're under budget.Project Manager: Yeah. That's gonna cost ten ten Euro seventy cents a unit to make. And our target was it had to come in at under twelve fifty.User Interface: That's cool. Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: So,User Interface: And we're actua actually making a better profit than we expected.Project Manager: this is all very very good. The bosses will be very pleased.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, let's just save this so I can e-mail it to you. Uh.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Save it in {gap} save it in the uh {vocalsound} my documents.Marketing: It's already saved, I think.Project Manager: Splendid. Okay. So uh, that's {gap} done with this with this um doodah, so you're {gap}. Gonna do {disfmarker} what you were gonna do,Marketing: Thank you. Mm.Project Manager: your evaluation.Marketing: Oh, yeah. This is where we all get to {vocalsound} I get to write on the, oops, on the board. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh.'S function {disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ eight.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap} I love the smell of that Play-Doh.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah,Project Manager: {vocalsound} I cou {gap}. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.User Interface: have some have some.Marketing: Okay. So,

Would the remote come under budget as the cost of it was discussed

Play-Doh would be used as it was very cheap, edible and chew-proof. The energy source would be kinetic power and electronics would be the simplest. For the case, it would be double curved and made of rubber. The interface was push buttons and they would be in special colours and forms. Considering the cost of the above materials, the remote would be within budget as it cost ten seventy euros a unit.

Well, you can break the ornaments, but you won't break that.Marketing: No {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. So all in all, I think we've done very well.Industrial Designer: Mm yep.Project Manager: Well done everybody.User Interface: Right, you too.Marketing: Yay.Project Manager: Um. Drinks are on the company.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: In the corporate bar that's next to the corporate swimming pool on the top floor that we're that've all just gained access to.User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Glad to hear that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. That's it.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Well, as far as I t as far as I know. Um.Marketing: Yep. We haven't got the five minute left thing yet.Project Manager: No. Anyone wanna play I spy {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I guess it's probably better that we wrap it up than have five minutes of silence. Should we call the day thenProject Manager: Yeah, I guess. I mean we're gonna get asked to fill out another questionnaire.User Interface: Uh, right.Project Manager: Um. It's probably gonna be the same as one we've done before.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: But I'm not the authority to say that it is.Marketing: In {gap} project.Project Manager: Um how does everyone feel about the technology that's been used in this The sort of using of the the pens and writing on these special pads and all thatMarketing: I love it. {vocalsound} I love it. {vocalsound} I think it's cool.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Being all wired up and a vibrating pen and {disfmarker} it's cool.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Being watched. Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Your moment to shine.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Wow.Project Manager: I thi you know, I'd I'd n yeah, as we said earlier, I've not {disfmarker} never seen that before. {gap} something that t the whiteboardIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: thingy, {vocalsound} that's great. Um, but a p a pen with a camera on it, I don't think it's such a new thing. I mean it's i or in such a new idea. It would be different if it was sort of hand writing recognition stuff, but as it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: it's literally that'll come up on a computer screen as a picture file rather than actual text.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Right, I think they do want to do hand writing recognition on that, it's just the first step.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Logitech.User Interface: I guess we should end this, since we're off off topic. So. Shall we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Meeting adjourned.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. There you go.User Interface: So that's that's {vocalsound} our end of things wha uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, very good, yeah.User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's come up with what we've you know, the things that's what we've {disfmarker} what we were looking at doing, hasn't it, {gap} all seems to be there.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Well done.Marketing: And all the playing around is uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um before we move on {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, I'm just {disfmarker} do you wanna plug inProject Manager: I need that cable.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Thank you. Yeah. Um. One thing I do need to do {disfmarker} we need to look at, is the costs.User Interface: The costs, was that what you saidIndustrial Designer: Play-Doh is very cheap. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Play-Doh won't last very long everybody'll go like, oops, it's gone. {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But it's edible.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Chew proof.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, they'll buy more of them if you eat them, {gap}.User Interface: That was the main criteria from the last meeting, it had to be chew proof.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. Uh right. {vocalsound} Okay, now I think we'll do this {disfmarker} I could do {disfmarker} you know, I can do this o on my own or I could do it with you,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Oh ho-ho.Project Manager: but it's just easy enough to go through it with you, so we're going for the kinetic power.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the electronics, we decided on it being just a simple, the easiest thing that's inside it. Ooh.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} the case, we've gone for the double curved. Um and it's made out of rubber. {vocalsound} The interface is push-buttons. And button supplements well they're in diff special colours, aren't Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}User Interface: So at this stage, I mean, is this the last meeting of the project We don't uh have another one after it's gone gone to marke market or somethingMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: No,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: I think when this meeting's finished like officially, there b we'll get a uh questionnaire to fill in.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y Oh reallyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or six, uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Just start summarising now. {vocalsound} You can reply to the same message.Project Manager: I haven't got message.Marketing: See summary, there. If you just reply to that one.User Interface: So there's no way to like predict what our {disfmarker}'Cause we had a {disfmarker} we originally had a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} As far as our financial uh um goals, we had a specific number for profits that we wanted. It was fifty mil fifty million {disfmarker}Marketing: Was it was it fifty or fiveUser Interface: I don't remember. But there's not a way to compute that, I mean, since we saved on the on the production cost, do we know how much we're making on profitProject Manager: It gets handed over to another department.Marketing: Depends how much we sell.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager: What our what our project was was to come up with the product, basically.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: {gap} the for the {disfmarker} and just basically is it it come {disfmarker} can {disfmarker} is it within budget. When it c when it comes to all the other things of how to sell it and, you know, the b the profits and all that that's other departments {disfmarker} it's another team that actually work out the mai the {disfmarker}User Interface: But we have a vested interest {gap}Project Manager: oh yeah, the {disfmarker} all the guys in the profit sharing, yeah.User theyMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So {gap} special colours.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: It's better for {disfmarker}Project Manager: Special form, yeah, they're a special form there in shapes and stuff.User Interface: Yeah, I mean, {vocalsound} these these ones on the side are curved kind of, so {disfmarker}Marketing: And special material.Project Manager: Yep. Yeah. Um. Are they made out of any special materialIndustrial Designer: Rubber.Project Manager: No they're not. They're not made out of wood or titanium or rubber or anything, they're just simple {disfmarker}User Interface: The buttons are rubber.Marketing: Well they're rubber, aren't theyProject Manager: Okay. Right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: So let's see if that comes within budget. And it does. That is gonna cost uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: We're under budget.Project Manager: Yeah. That's gonna cost ten ten Euro seventy cents a unit to make. And our target was it had to come in at under twelve fifty.User Interface: That's cool. Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: So,User Interface: And we're actua actually making a better profit than we expected.Project Manager: this is all very very good. The bosses will be very pleased.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, let's just save this so I can e-mail it to you. Uh.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Save it in {gap} save it in the uh {vocalsound} my documents.Marketing: It's already saved, I think.Project Manager: Splendid. Okay. So uh, that's {gap} done with this with this um doodah, so you're {gap}. Gonna do {disfmarker} what you were gonna do,Marketing: Thank you. Mm.Project Manager: your evaluation.Marketing: Oh, yeah. This is where we all get to {vocalsound} I get to write on the, oops, on the board. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh.'S function {disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ eight.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap} I love the smell of that Play-Doh.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah,Project Manager: {vocalsound} I cou {gap}. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.User Interface: have some have some.Marketing: Okay. So, thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True.Project Manager: So on the technical side of it it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I'd say it's about a a twoishIndustrial Designer: Two.User Interface: It's about in the mid in the middle somewhere,Marketing: Two.User Interface: maybe, yeah, I dunno.Marketing: Three.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Maybe three, yeah.Marketing: {gap} three. So criteria three is is it easy to useProject Manager: Easy to use.Marketing: I think it's a one, I think.Project Manager: I'd say it's I wouldn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: not if you're left-handed it's not. I would give it a I would give it a two,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Two,Project Manager:'cause i i it i it i it is more geared for right-handed people than left-handed people, but {disfmarker}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: But if we make a right-handed and a left-handed thenUser Interface: If we're gonna have one left-handed and one right-handed then I would give it a one, but otherwise otherwise a two.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Give it a t give it a two.Marketing: Yeah, okay. {vocalsound}'Kay, criteria four is costs. {gap}Project Manager: Cost. It's come in under budget.Marketing: {vocalsound}'s great.Project Manager: So that's a definite one.User Interface: Yeah. That was great.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Amount of buttons.Marketing: Like the amount of buttons,Project Manager: Contains only the necessary buttons.Marketing:'cause people like a lot le like {disfmarker} So it's a oneProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Um criteria six. R_S_I_ is it good againstIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes s yeah.Marketing: Yes. Very good.Project Manager: So it's anti-R_S_I_.Marketing: It's one. And criteria seven, which is the last one, does it get lostIndustrial Designer: It's yellow.Marketing: Is it easy to get lostProject Manager: I don't think it's gonna get lost easily.User Interface: {vocalsound} It is very bright, yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No But it is smallish.Industrial

Summarize the evaluation of the remote.

On a scale of one to seven, with one being true and seven being untrue, the remote scored a one for the look and feel unanimous. For new technology and being easy to use, it was given a mark of three and two respectively as kinetic energy was the only technological innovation and the remote was better geared for right-handed people. Next, the cost was given as it was under budget. Then, one was given for RSI and the amount of buttons as there were only necessary buttons. Finally, it scored a two for getting lost easily.

Well, you can break the ornaments, but you won't break that.Marketing: No {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. So all in all, I think we've done very well.Industrial Designer: Mm yep.Project Manager: Well done everybody.User Interface: Right, you too.Marketing: Yay.Project Manager: Um. Drinks are on the company.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: In the corporate bar that's next to the corporate swimming pool on the top floor that we're that've all just gained access to.User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Glad to hear that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. That's it.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Well, as far as I t as far as I know. Um.Marketing: Yep. We haven't got the five minute left thing yet.Project Manager: No. Anyone wanna play I spy {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I guess it's probably better that we wrap it up than have five minutes of silence. Should we call the day thenProject Manager: Yeah, I guess. I mean we're gonna get asked to fill out another questionnaire.User Interface: Uh, right.Project Manager: Um. It's probably gonna be the same as one we've done before.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: But I'm not the authority to say that it is.Marketing: In {gap} project.Project Manager: Um how does everyone feel about the technology that's been used in this The sort of using of the the pens and writing on these special pads and all thatMarketing: I love it. {vocalsound} I love it. {vocalsound} I think it's cool.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Being all wired up and a vibrating pen and {disfmarker} it's cool.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Being watched. Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Your moment to shine.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Wow.Project Manager: I thi you know, I'd I'd n yeah, as we said earlier, I've not {disfmarker} never seen that before. {gap} something that t the whiteboardIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: thingy, {vocalsound} that's great. Um, but a p a pen with a camera on it, I don't think it's such a new thing. I mean it's i or in such a new idea. It would be different if it was sort of hand writing recognition stuff, but as it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: it's literally that'll come up on a computer screen as a picture file rather than actual text.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Right, I think they do want to do hand writing recognition on that, it's just the first step.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Logitech.User Interface: I guess we should end this, since we're off off topic. So. Shall we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Meeting adjourned.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. There you go.User Interface: So that's that's {vocalsound} our end of things wha uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, very good, yeah.User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's come up with what we've you know, the things that's what we've {disfmarker} what we were looking at doing, hasn't it, {gap} all seems to be there.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Well done.Marketing: And all the playing around is uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um before we move on {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, I'm just {disfmarker} do you wanna plug inProject Manager: I need that cable.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Thank you. Yeah. Um. One thing I do need to do {disfmarker} we need to look at, is the costs.User Interface: The costs, was that what you saidIndustrial Designer: Play-Doh is very cheap. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Play-Doh won't last very long everybody'll go like, oops, it's gone. {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But it's edible.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Chew proof.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, they'll buy more of them if you eat them, {gap}.User Interface: That was the main criteria from the last meeting, it had to be chew proof.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. Uh right. {vocalsound} Okay, now I think we'll do this {disfmarker} I could do {disfmarker} you know, I can do this o on my own or I could do it with you,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Oh ho-ho.Project Manager: but it's just easy enough to go through it with you, so we're going for the kinetic power.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the electronics, we decided on it being just a simple, the easiest thing that's inside it. Ooh.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} the case, we've gone for the double curved. Um and it's made out of rubber. {vocalsound} The interface is push-buttons. And button supplements well they're in diff special colours, aren't thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True.Project Manager: So on the technical side of it it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I'd say it's about a a twoishIndustrial Designer: Two.User Interface: It's about in the mid in the middle somewhere,Marketing: Two.User Interface: maybe, yeah, I dunno.Marketing: Three.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Maybe three, yeah.Marketing: {gap} three. So criteria three is is it easy to useProject Manager: Easy to use.Marketing: I think it's a one, I think.Project Manager: I'd say it's I wouldn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: not if you're left-handed it's not. I would give it a I would give it a two,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Two,Project Manager:'cause i i it i it i it is more geared for right-handed people than left-handed people, but {disfmarker}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: But if we make a right-handed and a left-handed thenUser Interface: If we're gonna have one left-handed and one right-handed then I would give it a one, but otherwise otherwise a two.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Give it a t give it a two.Marketing: Yeah, okay. {vocalsound}'Kay, criteria four is costs. {gap}Project Manager: Cost. It's come in under budget.Marketing: {vocalsound}'s great.Project Manager: So that's a definite one.User Interface: Yeah. That was great.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Amount of buttons.Marketing: Like the amount of buttons,Project Manager: Contains only the necessary buttons.Marketing:'cause people like a lot le like {disfmarker} So it's a oneProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Um criteria six. R_S_I_ is it good againstIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes s yeah.Marketing: Yes. Very good.Project Manager: So it's anti-R_S_I_.Marketing: It's one. And criteria seven, which is the last one, does it get lostIndustrial Designer: It's yellow.Marketing: Is it easy to get lostProject Manager: I don't think it's gonna get lost easily.User Interface: {vocalsound} It is very bright, yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No But it is smallish.Industrial Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}User Interface: So at this stage, I mean, is this the last meeting of the project We don't uh have another one after it's gone gone to marke market or somethingMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: No,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: I think when this meeting's finished like officially, there b we'll get a uh questionnaire to fill in.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y Oh reallyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or six, uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Just start summarising now. {vocalsound} You can reply to the same message.Project Manager: I haven't got message.Marketing: See summary, there. If you just reply to that one.User Interface: So there's no way to like predict what our {disfmarker}'Cause we had a {disfmarker} we originally had a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} As far as our financial uh um goals, we had a specific number for profits that we wanted. It was fifty mil fifty million {disfmarker}Marketing: Was it was it fifty or fiveUser Interface: I don't remember. But there's not a way to compute that, I mean, since we saved on the on the production cost, do we know how much we're making on profitProject Manager: It gets handed over to another department.Marketing: Depends how much we sell.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager: What our what our project was was to come up with the product, basically.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: {gap} the for the {disfmarker} and just basically is it it come {disfmarker} can {disfmarker} is it within budget. When it c when it comes to all the other things of how to sell it and, you know, the b the profits and all that that's other departments {disfmarker} it's another team that actually work out the mai the {disfmarker}User Interface: But we have a vested interest {gap}Project Manager: oh yeah, the {disfmarker} all the guys in the profit sharing, yeah.User Interface: prof profit sharing {vocalsound}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um. Yeah, that's it. You know, we've we've we've made i we've madeMarketing: We finished an hour earlier. {vocalsound}Project Manager: we've designed the product, we've ma we've got the prototype, it's within budget, it's {disfmarker} does everything that we wanted it to do. It's new, it's it's um something that uh {vocalsound} that isn't out there already.User Interface: I think actually {disfmarker} and one advantage of of this is that after the uh, you know, after this fad of fruit and vegetables passes this will still be c a cool remote, you know.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: We're not we're not you know, tying tying our cart to that one horse {gap}. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Well, this is very marketable in that it is it's it's something that's kind of new and looks a bit quirky for people who want that,Marketing: Definitely.Project Manager: it's {disfmarker} that it's um, hang on, I wrote it down here somewhere {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh no I thi I put it in one of my e-mails that I sent off. Um that, you know, it's marketable in the sense that it's {disfmarker} whilst all these other remotes uh actually do give you repetitive strain injury, our one does the complete opposite, you know,User Interface: Mm. Mm.Project Manager: so that's something that's new, which is one of the criteria they asked us to come up with something with something new.User Interface: Mm. It make watching T_V_ healthy.Project Manager: Yeah, and if you're not having a good time with the T_V_, you can f throw it about, you know.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: It's fine, it's kid proof.Marketing: Just don't sh don't throw it at any of the ornaments and break them.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager:

Summarize the wrap up of the meeting.

The remote fits all criteria and it was something novel. Also, it was marketable in the sense that other remotes would give users repetitive strain injury but this remote would do the complete opposite. Project Manager concluded that everyone had done a great job, both individually and as a team. Though there was some heated discussion during designing the remote, the communication was still great. For the technology that had been used during meetings, Marketing thought it was quite cool.

Well, you can break the ornaments, but you won't break that.Marketing: No {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. So all in all, I think we've done very well.Industrial Designer: Mm yep.Project Manager: Well done everybody.User Interface: Right, you too.Marketing: Yay.Project Manager: Um. Drinks are on the company.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Cool.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: In the corporate bar that's next to the corporate swimming pool on the top floor that we're that've all just gained access to.User Interface: {vocalsound} Mm. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Glad to hear that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah. That's it.User Interface: That's it.Project Manager: Well, as far as I t as far as I know. Um.Marketing: Yep. We haven't got the five minute left thing yet.Project Manager: No. Anyone wanna play I spy {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm mm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: I guess it's probably better that we wrap it up than have five minutes of silence. Should we call the day thenProject Manager: Yeah, I guess. I mean we're gonna get asked to fill out another questionnaire.User Interface: Uh, right.Project Manager: Um. It's probably gonna be the same as one we've done before.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: But I'm not the authority to say that it is.Marketing: In {gap} project.Project Manager: Um how does everyone feel about the technology that's been used in this The sort of using of the the pens and writing on these special pads and all thatMarketing: I love it. {vocalsound} I love it. {vocalsound} I think it's cool.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Being all wired up and a vibrating pen and {disfmarker} it's cool.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Being watched. Um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Your moment to shine.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Wow.Project Manager: I thi you know, I'd I'd n yeah, as we said earlier, I've not {disfmarker} never seen that before. {gap} something that t the whiteboardIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: thingy, {vocalsound} that's great. Um, but a p a pen with a camera on it, I don't think it's such a new thing. I mean it's i or in such a new idea. It would be different if it was sort of hand writing recognition stuff, but as it's not {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: it's literally that'll come up on a computer screen as a picture file rather than actual text.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: Right, I think they do want to do hand writing recognition on that, it's just the first step.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Mm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Logitech.User Interface: I guess we should end this, since we're off off topic. So. Shall we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Meeting adjourned.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. There you go.User Interface: So that's that's {vocalsound} our end of things wha uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, very good, yeah.User Interface: That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's come up with what we've you know, the things that's what we've {disfmarker} what we were looking at doing, hasn't it, {gap} all seems to be there.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Well done.Marketing: And all the playing around is uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Um before we move on {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, I'm just {disfmarker} do you wanna plug inProject Manager: I need that cable.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Thank you. Yeah. Um. One thing I do need to do {disfmarker} we need to look at, is the costs.User Interface: The costs, was that what you saidIndustrial Designer: Play-Doh is very cheap. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: {gap} um {disfmarker}Marketing: Play-Doh won't last very long everybody'll go like, oops, it's gone. {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: But it's edible.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Chew proof.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Well, they'll buy more of them if you eat them, {gap}.User Interface: That was the main criteria from the last meeting, it had to be chew proof.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah. Uh right. {vocalsound} Okay, now I think we'll do this {disfmarker} I could do {disfmarker} you know, I can do this o on my own or I could do it with you,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Oh ho-ho.Project Manager: but it's just easy enough to go through it with you, so we're going for the kinetic power.Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And the electronics, we decided on it being just a simple, the easiest thing that's inside it. Ooh.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So {disfmarker} the case, we've gone for the double curved. Um and it's made out of rubber. {vocalsound} The interface is push-buttons. And button supplements well they're in diff special colours, aren't thing.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True.Project Manager: So on the technical side of it it {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I'd say it's about a a twoishIndustrial Designer: Two.User Interface: It's about in the mid in the middle somewhere,Marketing: Two.User Interface: maybe, yeah, I dunno.Marketing: Three.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Maybe three, yeah.Marketing: {gap} three. So criteria three is is it easy to useProject Manager: Easy to use.Marketing: I think it's a one, I think.Project Manager: I'd say it's I wouldn't {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: not if you're left-handed it's not. I would give it a I would give it a two,User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Two,Project Manager:'cause i i it i it i it is more geared for right-handed people than left-handed people, but {disfmarker}Marketing: so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: But if we make a right-handed and a left-handed thenUser Interface: If we're gonna have one left-handed and one right-handed then I would give it a one, but otherwise otherwise a two.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Give it a t give it a two.Marketing: Yeah, okay. {vocalsound}'Kay, criteria four is costs. {gap}Project Manager: Cost. It's come in under budget.Marketing: {vocalsound}'s great.Project Manager: So that's a definite one.User Interface: Yeah. That was great.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Amount of buttons.Marketing: Like the amount of buttons,Project Manager: Contains only the necessary buttons.Marketing:'cause people like a lot le like {disfmarker} So it's a oneProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Um criteria six. R_S_I_ is it good againstIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yes s yeah.Marketing: Yes. Very good.Project Manager: So it's anti-R_S_I_.Marketing: It's one. And criteria seven, which is the last one, does it get lostIndustrial Designer: It's yellow.Marketing: Is it easy to get lostProject Manager: I don't think it's gonna get lost easily.User Interface: {vocalsound} It is very bright, yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: No But it is smallish.Industrial theyMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So {gap} special colours.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: It's better for {disfmarker}Project Manager: Special form, yeah, they're a special form there in shapes and stuff.User Interface: Yeah, I mean, {vocalsound} these these ones on the side are curved kind of, so {disfmarker}Marketing: And special material.Project Manager: Yep. Yeah. Um. Are they made out of any special materialIndustrial Designer: Rubber.Project Manager: No they're not. They're not made out of wood or titanium or rubber or anything, they're just simple {disfmarker}User Interface: The buttons are rubber.Marketing: Well they're rubber, aren't theyProject Manager: Okay. Right.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: So let's see if that comes within budget. And it does. That is gonna cost uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: We're under budget.Project Manager: Yeah. That's gonna cost ten ten Euro seventy cents a unit to make. And our target was it had to come in at under twelve fifty.User Interface: That's cool. Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: So,User Interface: And we're actua actually making a better profit than we expected.Project Manager: this is all very very good. The bosses will be very pleased.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, let's just save this so I can e-mail it to you. Uh.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Save it in {gap} save it in the uh {vocalsound} my documents.Marketing: It's already saved, I think.Project Manager: Splendid. Okay. So uh, that's {gap} done with this with this um doodah, so you're {gap}. Gonna do {disfmarker} what you were gonna do,Marketing: Thank you. Mm.Project Manager: your evaluation.Marketing: Oh, yeah. This is where we all get to {vocalsound} I get to write on the, oops, on the board. Right.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Oh.'S function {disfmarker}Project Manager: F_ eight.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: {gap} I love the smell of that Play-Doh.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah,Project Manager: {vocalsound} I cou {gap}. {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm.User Interface: have some have some.Marketing: Okay. So, Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} But um {disfmarker}User Interface: So at this stage, I mean, is this the last meeting of the project We don't uh have another one after it's gone gone to marke market or somethingMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: No,Marketing: {gap}Project Manager: I think when this meeting's finished like officially, there b we'll get a uh questionnaire to fill in.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Y Oh reallyUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Or six, uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Just start summarising now. {vocalsound} You can reply to the same message.Project Manager: I haven't got message.Marketing: See summary, there. If you just reply to that one.User Interface: So there's no way to like predict what our {disfmarker}'Cause we had a {disfmarker} we originally had a {vocalsound} {disfmarker} As far as our financial uh um goals, we had a specific number for profits that we wanted. It was fifty mil fifty million {disfmarker}Marketing: Was it was it fifty or fiveUser Interface: I don't remember. But there's not a way to compute that, I mean, since we saved on the on the production cost, do we know how much we're making on profitProject Manager: It gets handed over to another department.Marketing: Depends how much we sell.User Interface: Uh.Project Manager: What our what our project was was to come up with the product, basically.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: {gap} the for the {disfmarker} and just basically is it it come {disfmarker} can {disfmarker} is it within budget. When it c when it comes to all the other things of how to sell it and, you know, the b the profits and all that that's other departments {disfmarker} it's another team that actually work out the mai the {disfmarker}User Interface: But we have a vested interest {gap}Project Manager: oh yeah, the {disfmarker} all the guys in the profit sharing, yeah.User

Summarize the whole meeting.

The meeting began with a presentation on the prototype by Industrial Designer and User Interface and a double curved rubber prototype with anti-RSI buttons was displayed. Next, they discussed the cost of the remote which only cost ten seventy euros a unit and well under the budget of twelve fifty. Then, the team evaluated the remote according to seven criteria and it passed with flying colours as three criteria scored a one and others no more than three. Finally, the meeting ended with team building and a wrap-up, which Project Marketing concluded that the novel remote fit all criteria and the team did a great job.

Project Manager: Okay. Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product that we're gonna be designing. Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager. And I know all your names again, Courtney, Fenella and Amber.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Alright. Okay,Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint. I wonder what button I pressUser Interface: Just do it on the {gap} arrow.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah, or how about I just click Okay, here is our agenda for this meeting. Um we're gonna start with our opening which was our introductions. {vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better. Um tool training, we're going to, I guess, figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles. Um we're gonna make a project plan and then have some time for discussion and close up the meeting. Okay, here is our project. We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original, trendy and also user-friendly. And how we are going to do it is each of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have {disfmarker} discuss the functional design first, {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used, what's the actual goal here, it has to operate T_V_, blah blah blah. And we're going to do individual work on that and then meet. Same thing with conceptual design. Just the basic overview of the project and then we're going to do individual work, meet. That's pretty much the the whole process for today. And then the detailed design, just more in-depth, get the actual schematics of the remote. Okay. Alright. First we're gonna start off by using our tools. And the whiteboard thing, do you guys wanna give that a try even though the ink wasn't working or another thing that I think is important is the d the design of the product, how it feels in your hand. If it's just flat and kind of boring th those don't {disfmarker} Nobody wants to buy those any more. They want the ergonomic ones.Marketing: They want like the flashy lights.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Oh like this came from Las Vegas.Project Manager: Ones that ones that look high-tech, too.User Interface: But at the same time are simple.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Mm yeah.Project Manager: So that people like my mother can use it.Industrial Designer: What about something with the curvature like that matches the curvature of a handProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:'Kay. Anybody have any experiences with remote controls that they can remember that {disfmarker}User Interface: Just bad ones. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah {gap}. {vocalsound} That's true.User Interface: Um.Industrial Designer: What kinda battery would we want to use Because battery changing is usually {disfmarker}User Interface: D Double A_.Marketing: Double A_.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Do some of them use triple A_s thoughMarketing: Yeah some use triple A_s.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Some but {disfmarker}Marketing: So double or tripleUser Interface: Yeah, I guess then it's {disfmarker} If we need to do triple A_ we can, but most people usually have double A_s around.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah. But that has to do with the size of it too. Well, w as long as we know that issue is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: Here we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, if we want it to be more thin, then we'd probably wanna go with a triple A_.Project Manager: Triple A. ButIndustrial Designer: Can you {gap} with a small lithium batteryProject Manager: it's okay, we don't have to decide about it now, just as long as we remember battery type and size is important.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hey. Anything business here.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um the selling price for our remote is going to be twenty-five Euro, and our profit aim is fifty million Euro. We're going to make this an international product marketed in the States, in Europe, in Asia. And um our production cost to make that profit is gonna be a max of twelve fifty Euro per remote. Okay. So we're gonna talk for a little while. Um here are some topics that we might be able to discuss. Expe our experiences with remote controls um, our first ideas about this new remote, anything that you can bring to the table for this project. So.User Interface: NowProject Manager: Yeah. You wanna start us off Anybody have anything to offerUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we wanna make a multifunctional remote, rightProject Manager: Right.Industrial Designer: One remote for everything.User Interface: And everything being {disfmarker} Wait, we have what, sound system, T_V_, D_V_D_, V_H_S_, uh TiVoMarketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Um. I think they'll be phasing V_H_S_ out shortly.Marketing: Yeah, TiVo.Project Manager: TiVo.User Interface: But it's still there, soIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: if po if we're gonna do it {disfmarker}Marketing: It needs to be compatible'cause universal remote controls are never universal.Project Manager: They're never universal. That's right. Esp e especially if you buy a a not big product, D_V_D_ player, say, usually it doesn't work if it's not one of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Or if it's not like a Sony, if it's like a {disfmarker} I don't know.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Something from Sam's club.Industrial Designer: So we'll have to figure it how to cover all the different variances in signals.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: And what we need an insanely good instruction booklet, because you always have to reconfigure all your contraptions to go with the remote anyways.Project Manager: Yeah.'Kay, and um do you wanna do it on here.Industrial Designer: I think we should forgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing.Marketing: We could {disfmarker} Yeah, we could on here.Project Manager: Alright, let's go forward then.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sum up our favourite characteristics of that animal. Even if you are not a good drawer like me.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright.Industrial Designer: Artistic skills, nil.User Interface: Fine.Project Manager: Um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, thanks. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay, about one more minute. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And who would like to start us offMarketing: I'll go.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um this is my picture. I drew fish {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish, because uh, you know, their whole water-vascular system thing.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool, and um they've got a pretty good habitat and they are pretty sometimes, sometimes vicious but that's okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, they they're easy, you know.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants to go nextIndustrial Designer: I'll go.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty. It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat, but I love cats.Marketing: No I I see it.Project Manager: No, it looks like a cat.User Interface: No, I kne I knew.Marketing: Yeah, it does look like a cat.Industrial Designer: I love cats because they're independent, uh they pretty much know what they want, they get it, they move on. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats, too. I'm a cat person.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I'm allergic to cats.Project Manager: Uh.Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats, too. else Alright. Moving along. Oh, we're closing the meeting. Next meeting is gonna start in thirty minutes. Here's what we're going to do. Um the I_D_, which is who Okay, you're going to think about the working design. What do you think that means {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And U_I_D_, the technical fun functions design,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: making sure it does everything that we need the remote to do, the functionality of it, operating all those different things. Okay. And the marketing person, that's Courtney, is going to do the user requirements specification. I guess that means specifying um what exactly the user is going to be looking for. Right I would think so. Okay.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: And you're gonna get more specific instructions emailed to you in just a little while. Okay, so does anybody have anything they wanna say before we close the meeting Okay. This meeting is officially over.

Summarize the process of team building and the discussion about animals.

Following the proposal of Project Manager, each of the four team members drew their favourite animals. Marketing drew fish, explaining that he/she liked their water-vascular system, habitat, and normally mild looks. Industrial Designer drew a cat for its independence and decisiveness. User Interface's choice was a badger, alluding to Wind in the Willows and Brian's books. Finally, Project Manager showed his giraffe, and talked about its uniqueness and individuality.

Project Manager: Okay. Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product that we're gonna be designing. Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager. And I know all your names again, Courtney, Fenella and Amber.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Alright. Okay,Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint. I wonder what button I pressUser Interface: Just do it on the {gap} arrow.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah, or how about I just click Okay, here is our agenda for this meeting. Um we're gonna start with our opening which was our introductions. {vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better. Um tool training, we're going to, I guess, figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles. Um we're gonna make a project plan and then have some time for discussion and close up the meeting. Okay, here is our project. We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original, trendy and also user-friendly. And how we are going to do it is each of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have {disfmarker} discuss the functional design first, {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used, what's the actual goal here, it has to operate T_V_, blah blah blah. And we're going to do individual work on that and then meet. Same thing with conceptual design. Just the basic overview of the project and then we're going to do individual work, meet. That's pretty much the the whole process for today. And then the detailed design, just more in-depth, get the actual schematics of the remote. Okay. Alright. First we're gonna start off by using our tools. And the whiteboard thing, do you guys wanna give that a try even though the ink wasn't working or another thing that I think is important is the d the design of the product, how it feels in your hand. If it's just flat and kind of boring th those don't {disfmarker} Nobody wants to buy those any more. They want the ergonomic ones.Marketing: They want like the flashy lights.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Oh like this came from Las Vegas.Project Manager: Ones that ones that look high-tech, too.User Interface: But at the same time are simple.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Mm yeah.Project Manager: So that people like my mother can use it.Industrial Designer: What about something with the curvature like that matches the curvature of a handProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:'Kay. Anybody have any experiences with remote controls that they can remember that {disfmarker}User Interface: Just bad ones. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah {gap}. {vocalsound} That's true.User Interface: Um.Industrial Designer: What kinda battery would we want to use Because battery changing is usually {disfmarker}User Interface: D Double A_.Marketing: Double A_.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Do some of them use triple A_s thoughMarketing: Yeah some use triple A_s.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Some but {disfmarker}Marketing: So double or tripleUser Interface: Yeah, I guess then it's {disfmarker} If we need to do triple A_ we can, but most people usually have double A_s around.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah. But that has to do with the size of it too. Well, w as long as we know that issue is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: Here we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, if we want it to be more thin, then we'd probably wanna go with a triple A_.Project Manager: Triple A. ButIndustrial Designer: Can you {gap} with a small lithium batteryProject Manager: it's okay, we don't have to decide about it now, just as long as we remember battery type and size is important.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hey. Anything business here.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um the selling price for our remote is going to be twenty-five Euro, and our profit aim is fifty million Euro. We're going to make this an international product marketed in the States, in Europe, in Asia. And um our production cost to make that profit is gonna be a max of twelve fifty Euro per remote. Okay. So we're gonna talk for a little while. Um here are some topics that we might be able to discuss. Expe our experiences with remote controls um, our first ideas about this new remote, anything that you can bring to the table for this project. So.User Interface: NowProject Manager: Yeah. You wanna start us off Anybody have anything to offerUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we wanna make a multifunctional remote, rightProject Manager: Right.Industrial Designer: One remote for everything.User Interface: And everything being {disfmarker} Wait, we have what, sound system, T_V_, D_V_D_, V_H_S_, uh TiVoMarketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Um. I think they'll be phasing V_H_S_ out shortly.Marketing: Yeah, TiVo.Project Manager: TiVo.User Interface: But it's still there, soIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: if po if we're gonna do it {disfmarker}Marketing: It needs to be compatible'cause universal remote controls are never universal.Project Manager: They're never universal. That's right. Esp e especially if you buy a a not big product, D_V_D_ player, say, usually it doesn't work if it's not one of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Or if it's not like a Sony, if it's like a {disfmarker} I don't know.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Something from Sam's club.Industrial Designer: So we'll have to figure it how to cover all the different variances in signals.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: And what we need an insanely good instruction booklet, because you always have to reconfigure all your contraptions to go with the remote anyways.Project Manager: Yeah.'Kay, and um else Alright. Moving along. Oh, we're closing the meeting. Next meeting is gonna start in thirty minutes. Here's what we're going to do. Um the I_D_, which is who Okay, you're going to think about the working design. What do you think that means {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And U_I_D_, the technical fun functions design,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: making sure it does everything that we need the remote to do, the functionality of it, operating all those different things. Okay. And the marketing person, that's Courtney, is going to do the user requirements specification. I guess that means specifying um what exactly the user is going to be looking for. Right I would think so. Okay.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: And you're gonna get more specific instructions emailed to you in just a little while. Okay, so does anybody have anything they wanna say before we close the meeting Okay. This meeting is officially over. do you wanna do it on here.Industrial Designer: I think we should forgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing.Marketing: We could {disfmarker} Yeah, we could on here.Project Manager: Alright, let's go forward then.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sum up our favourite characteristics of that animal. Even if you are not a good drawer like me.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright.Industrial Designer: Artistic skills, nil.User Interface: Fine.Project Manager: Um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, thanks. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay, about one more minute. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And who would like to start us offMarketing: I'll go.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um this is my picture. I drew fish {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish, because uh, you know, their whole water-vascular system thing.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool, and um they've got a pretty good habitat and they are pretty sometimes, sometimes vicious but that's okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, they they're easy, you know.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants to go nextIndustrial Designer: I'll go.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty. It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat, but I love cats.Marketing: No I I see it.Project Manager: No, it looks like a cat.User Interface: No, I kne I knew.Marketing: Yeah, it does look like a cat.Industrial Designer: I love cats because they're independent, uh they pretty much know what they want, they get it, they move on. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats, too. I'm a cat person.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I'm allergic to cats.Project Manager: Uh.Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats, too.

What did the team say about being allergic to cats when discussing their favourite animals

When both Marketing and Industrial Designer had admitted to being allergic to cats, Project Manager attempted to propose a situation where they actually were around one. After this proposal was decisively rejected by User Interface, Project Manager talked about his/her experience with a roommate, proving that one could be used to cats if they were around them for a long time. Yet Marketing and Industrial Designer insisted on the severity of their allergies.

Project Manager: Okay. Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product that we're gonna be designing. Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager. And I know all your names again, Courtney, Fenella and Amber.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Alright. Okay,Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint. I wonder what button I pressUser Interface: Just do it on the {gap} arrow.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah, or how about I just click Okay, here is our agenda for this meeting. Um we're gonna start with our opening which was our introductions. {vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better. Um tool training, we're going to, I guess, figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles. Um we're gonna make a project plan and then have some time for discussion and close up the meeting. Okay, here is our project. We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original, trendy and also user-friendly. And how we are going to do it is each of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have {disfmarker} discuss the functional design first, {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used, what's the actual goal here, it has to operate T_V_, blah blah blah. And we're going to do individual work on that and then meet. Same thing with conceptual design. Just the basic overview of the project and then we're going to do individual work, meet. That's pretty much the the whole process for today. And then the detailed design, just more in-depth, get the actual schematics of the remote. Okay. Alright. First we're gonna start off by using our tools. And the whiteboard thing, do you guys wanna give that a try even though the ink wasn't working or business here.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um the selling price for our remote is going to be twenty-five Euro, and our profit aim is fifty million Euro. We're going to make this an international product marketed in the States, in Europe, in Asia. And um our production cost to make that profit is gonna be a max of twelve fifty Euro per remote. Okay. So we're gonna talk for a little while. Um here are some topics that we might be able to discuss. Expe our experiences with remote controls um, our first ideas about this new remote, anything that you can bring to the table for this project. So.User Interface: NowProject Manager: Yeah. You wanna start us off Anybody have anything to offerUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we wanna make a multifunctional remote, rightProject Manager: Right.Industrial Designer: One remote for everything.User Interface: And everything being {disfmarker} Wait, we have what, sound system, T_V_, D_V_D_, V_H_S_, uh TiVoMarketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Um. I think they'll be phasing V_H_S_ out shortly.Marketing: Yeah, TiVo.Project Manager: TiVo.User Interface: But it's still there, soIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: if po if we're gonna do it {disfmarker}Marketing: It needs to be compatible'cause universal remote controls are never universal.Project Manager: They're never universal. That's right. Esp e especially if you buy a a not big product, D_V_D_ player, say, usually it doesn't work if it's not one of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Or if it's not like a Sony, if it's like a {disfmarker} I don't know.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Something from Sam's club.Industrial Designer: So we'll have to figure it how to cover all the different variances in signals.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: And what we need an insanely good instruction booklet, because you always have to reconfigure all your contraptions to go with the remote anyways.Project Manager: Yeah.'Kay, and um another thing that I think is important is the d the design of the product, how it feels in your hand. If it's just flat and kind of boring th those don't {disfmarker} Nobody wants to buy those any more. They want the ergonomic ones.Marketing: They want like the flashy lights.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Oh like this came from Las Vegas.Project Manager: Ones that ones that look high-tech, too.User Interface: But at the same time are simple.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Mm yeah.Project Manager: So that people like my mother can use it.Industrial Designer: What about something with the curvature like that matches the curvature of a handProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:'Kay. Anybody have any experiences with remote controls that they can remember that {disfmarker}User Interface: Just bad ones. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah {gap}. {vocalsound} That's true.User Interface: Um.Industrial Designer: What kinda battery would we want to use Because battery changing is usually {disfmarker}User Interface: D Double A_.Marketing: Double A_.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Do some of them use triple A_s thoughMarketing: Yeah some use triple A_s.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Some but {disfmarker}Marketing: So double or tripleUser Interface: Yeah, I guess then it's {disfmarker} If we need to do triple A_ we can, but most people usually have double A_s around.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah. But that has to do with the size of it too. Well, w as long as we know that issue is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: Here we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, if we want it to be more thin, then we'd probably wanna go with a triple A_.Project Manager: Triple A. ButIndustrial Designer: Can you {gap} with a small lithium batteryProject Manager: it's okay, we don't have to decide about it now, just as long as we remember battery type and size is important.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hey. Anything else Alright. Moving along. Oh, we're closing the meeting. Next meeting is gonna start in thirty minutes. Here's what we're going to do. Um the I_D_, which is who Okay, you're going to think about the working design. What do you think that means {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And U_I_D_, the technical fun functions design,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: making sure it does everything that we need the remote to do, the functionality of it, operating all those different things. Okay. And the marketing person, that's Courtney, is going to do the user requirements specification. I guess that means specifying um what exactly the user is going to be looking for. Right I would think so. Okay.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: And you're gonna get more specific instructions emailed to you in just a little while. Okay, so does anybody have anything they wanna say before we close the meeting Okay. This meeting is officially over. do you wanna do it on here.Industrial Designer: I think we should forgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing.Marketing: We could {disfmarker} Yeah, we could on here.Project Manager: Alright, let's go forward then.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sum up our favourite characteristics of that animal. Even if you are not a good drawer like me.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright.Industrial Designer: Artistic skills, nil.User Interface: Fine.Project Manager: Um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, thanks. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay, about one more minute. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And who would like to start us offMarketing: I'll go.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um this is my picture. I drew fish {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish, because uh, you know, their whole water-vascular system thing.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool, and um they've got a pretty good habitat and they are pretty sometimes, sometimes vicious but that's okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, they they're easy, you know.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants to go nextIndustrial Designer: I'll go.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty. It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat, but I love cats.Marketing: No I I see it.Project Manager: No, it looks like a cat.User Interface: No, I kne I knew.Marketing: Yeah, it does look like a cat.Industrial Designer: I love cats because they're independent, uh they pretty much know what they want, they get it, they move on. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats, too. I'm a cat person.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I'm allergic to cats.Project Manager: Uh.Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats, too.

In the discussion of favourite animals, what was said about User Interface's choice

The animal User Interface drew was a badger. When Project Manager demanded the reason for this unusual choice, User Interface first answered that it was because badgers were grumpy and nocturnal. Industrial Designer joked about whether this suggested that User Interface had the same characteristics. User Interface then explained that his/her favourable impression of the badger came from books like Wind in the Willow, where badgers were cooler animals than what people generally imagine them to be.

Project Manager: Okay. Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product that we're gonna be designing. Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager. And I know all your names again, Courtney, Fenella and Amber.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Alright. Okay,Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint. I wonder what button I pressUser Interface: Just do it on the {gap} arrow.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah, or how about I just click Okay, here is our agenda for this meeting. Um we're gonna start with our opening which was our introductions. {vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better. Um tool training, we're going to, I guess, figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles. Um we're gonna make a project plan and then have some time for discussion and close up the meeting. Okay, here is our project. We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original, trendy and also user-friendly. And how we are going to do it is each of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have {disfmarker} discuss the functional design first, {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used, what's the actual goal here, it has to operate T_V_, blah blah blah. And we're going to do individual work on that and then meet. Same thing with conceptual design. Just the basic overview of the project and then we're going to do individual work, meet. That's pretty much the the whole process for today. And then the detailed design, just more in-depth, get the actual schematics of the remote. Okay. Alright. First we're gonna start off by using our tools. And the whiteboard thing, do you guys wanna give that a try even though the ink wasn't working or do you wanna do it on here.Industrial Designer: I think we should forgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing.Marketing: We could {disfmarker} Yeah, we could on here.Project Manager: Alright, let's go forward then.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sum up our favourite characteristics of that animal. Even if you are not a good drawer like me.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright.Industrial Designer: Artistic skills, nil.User Interface: Fine.Project Manager: Um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, thanks. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay, about one more minute. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And who would like to start us offMarketing: I'll go.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um this is my picture. I drew fish {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish, because uh, you know, their whole water-vascular system thing.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool, and um they've got a pretty good habitat and they are pretty sometimes, sometimes vicious but that's okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, they they're easy, you know.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants to go nextIndustrial Designer: I'll go.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty. It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat, but I love cats.Marketing: No I I see it.Project Manager: No, it looks like a cat.User Interface: No, I kne I knew.Marketing: Yeah, it does look like a cat.Industrial Designer: I love cats because they're independent, uh they pretty much know what they want, they get it, they move on. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats, too. I'm a cat person.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I'm allergic to cats.Project Manager: Uh.Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats, too. another thing that I think is important is the d the design of the product, how it feels in your hand. If it's just flat and kind of boring th those don't {disfmarker} Nobody wants to buy those any more. They want the ergonomic ones.Marketing: They want like the flashy lights.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Oh like this came from Las Vegas.Project Manager: Ones that ones that look high-tech, too.User Interface: But at the same time are simple.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Mm yeah.Project Manager: So that people like my mother can use it.Industrial Designer: What about something with the curvature like that matches the curvature of a handProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:'Kay. Anybody have any experiences with remote controls that they can remember that {disfmarker}User Interface: Just bad ones. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah {gap}. {vocalsound} That's true.User Interface: Um.Industrial Designer: What kinda battery would we want to use Because battery changing is usually {disfmarker}User Interface: D Double A_.Marketing: Double A_.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Do some of them use triple A_s thoughMarketing: Yeah some use triple A_s.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Some but {disfmarker}Marketing: So double or tripleUser Interface: Yeah, I guess then it's {disfmarker} If we need to do triple A_ we can, but most people usually have double A_s around.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah. But that has to do with the size of it too. Well, w as long as we know that issue is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: Here we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, if we want it to be more thin, then we'd probably wanna go with a triple A_.Project Manager: Triple A. ButIndustrial Designer: Can you {gap} with a small lithium batteryProject Manager: it's okay, we don't have to decide about it now, just as long as we remember battery type and size is important.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hey. Anything {vocalsound}User Interface: Ah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: If you're around one {disfmarker}User Interface: In my next life.Project Manager: I had a roommate who was um allergic, but if she was around my cat forever she became used to it, you know,Marketing: Yeah, yeah, if you're around them for a long period of time {disfmarker}Project Manager: it's weird. Okay. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I still can't sleep with them in my room.Marketing: Oh, yeah, this summer I, oh I had to live with cats. It was crazy.Project Manager: Okay, FenellaMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Um, I drew a badger. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Badger. Good choice.Industrial Designer: Yay.Marketing: Cool. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well, yeah.Project Manager: Why a badgerUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh I dunno, they're grumpy and nocturnal and {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Are you trying to suggest somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well, a little bit like the {disfmarker} Yes. Um. {vocalsound} And then, if you know Wind in the Willows {gap} badger.Marketing: Oh, okay.User Interface: Yeah and then uh I don't know if you know Brian {gap}. He's Liverpudlian writer.Project Manager: Alright.User Interface: Um {gap}, that kind of books. Badgers are cool in that one too. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And I'm last.'Kay. Look at my sad sad giraffe.Marketing: No, that's good.Project Manager: No, no, no, it ends up looking like some kind of a dinosaur, but whatever. I don't know even much about giraffes, but I just love the way they look. They're just such odd creatures, you know. I I like that they're so unique and individual, I guess. I don't know much about their behaviour or anything, though. Only seen a couple in zoos.Marketing: You don't really have to, I mean, if you like'em {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, but you can appreciate the way they look. Okay. Alright. Guess we're getting straight back into business here.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um the selling price for our remote is going to be twenty-five Euro, and our profit aim is fifty million Euro. We're going to make this an international product marketed in the States, in Europe, in Asia. And um our production cost to make that profit is gonna be a max of twelve fifty Euro per remote. Okay. So we're gonna talk for a little while. Um here are some topics that we might be able to discuss. Expe our experiences with remote controls um, our first ideas about this new remote, anything that you can bring to the table for this project. So.User Interface: NowProject Manager: Yeah. You wanna start us off Anybody have anything to offerUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we wanna make a multifunctional remote, rightProject Manager: Right.Industrial Designer: One remote for everything.User Interface: And everything being {disfmarker} Wait, we have what, sound system, T_V_, D_V_D_, V_H_S_, uh TiVoMarketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Um. I think they'll be phasing V_H_S_ out shortly.Marketing: Yeah, TiVo.Project Manager: TiVo.User Interface: But it's still there, soIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: if po if we're gonna do it {disfmarker}Marketing: It needs to be compatible'cause universal remote controls are never universal.Project Manager: They're never universal. That's right. Esp e especially if you buy a a not big product, D_V_D_ player, say, usually it doesn't work if it's not one of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Or if it's not like a Sony, if it's like a {disfmarker} I don't know.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Something from Sam's club.Industrial Designer: So we'll have to figure it how to cover all the different variances in signals.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: And what we need an insanely good instruction booklet, because you always have to reconfigure all your contraptions to go with the remote anyways.Project Manager: Yeah.'Kay, and um

Summarize the first ideas they raised for the design of the remote.

The aspects they mentioned were its compatibility, ergonomics, and the battery type it would use. Since the remote control was expected to be multifunctional, it must be compatible with all kinds of devices. This would also require a detailed instruction booklet for customers. The design of its look and curvature would also matter. Finally, the team agreed to keep the battery problem on hold.

Project Manager: Okay. Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product that we're gonna be designing. Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager. And I know all your names again, Courtney, Fenella and Amber.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Alright. Okay,Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint. I wonder what button I pressUser Interface: Just do it on the {gap} arrow.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah, or how about I just click Okay, here is our agenda for this meeting. Um we're gonna start with our opening which was our introductions. {vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better. Um tool training, we're going to, I guess, figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles. Um we're gonna make a project plan and then have some time for discussion and close up the meeting. Okay, here is our project. We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original, trendy and also user-friendly. And how we are going to do it is each of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have {disfmarker} discuss the functional design first, {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used, what's the actual goal here, it has to operate T_V_, blah blah blah. And we're going to do individual work on that and then meet. Same thing with conceptual design. Just the basic overview of the project and then we're going to do individual work, meet. That's pretty much the the whole process for today. And then the detailed design, just more in-depth, get the actual schematics of the remote. Okay. Alright. First we're gonna start off by using our tools. And the whiteboard thing, do you guys wanna give that a try even though the ink wasn't working or another thing that I think is important is the d the design of the product, how it feels in your hand. If it's just flat and kind of boring th those don't {disfmarker} Nobody wants to buy those any more. They want the ergonomic ones.Marketing: They want like the flashy lights.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Oh like this came from Las Vegas.Project Manager: Ones that ones that look high-tech, too.User Interface: But at the same time are simple.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Mm yeah.Project Manager: So that people like my mother can use it.Industrial Designer: What about something with the curvature like that matches the curvature of a handProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:'Kay. Anybody have any experiences with remote controls that they can remember that {disfmarker}User Interface: Just bad ones. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah {gap}. {vocalsound} That's true.User Interface: Um.Industrial Designer: What kinda battery would we want to use Because battery changing is usually {disfmarker}User Interface: D Double A_.Marketing: Double A_.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Do some of them use triple A_s thoughMarketing: Yeah some use triple A_s.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Some but {disfmarker}Marketing: So double or tripleUser Interface: Yeah, I guess then it's {disfmarker} If we need to do triple A_ we can, but most people usually have double A_s around.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah. But that has to do with the size of it too. Well, w as long as we know that issue is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: Here we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, if we want it to be more thin, then we'd probably wanna go with a triple A_.Project Manager: Triple A. ButIndustrial Designer: Can you {gap} with a small lithium batteryProject Manager: it's okay, we don't have to decide about it now, just as long as we remember battery type and size is important.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hey. Anything do you wanna do it on here.Industrial Designer: I think we should forgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing.Marketing: We could {disfmarker} Yeah, we could on here.Project Manager: Alright, let's go forward then.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sum up our favourite characteristics of that animal. Even if you are not a good drawer like me.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright.Industrial Designer: Artistic skills, nil.User Interface: Fine.Project Manager: Um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, thanks. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay, about one more minute. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And who would like to start us offMarketing: I'll go.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um this is my picture. I drew fish {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish, because uh, you know, their whole water-vascular system thing.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool, and um they've got a pretty good habitat and they are pretty sometimes, sometimes vicious but that's okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, they they're easy, you know.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants to go nextIndustrial Designer: I'll go.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty. It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat, but I love cats.Marketing: No I I see it.Project Manager: No, it looks like a cat.User Interface: No, I kne I knew.Marketing: Yeah, it does look like a cat.Industrial Designer: I love cats because they're independent, uh they pretty much know what they want, they get it, they move on. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats, too. I'm a cat person.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I'm allergic to cats.Project Manager: Uh.Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats, too. business here.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um the selling price for our remote is going to be twenty-five Euro, and our profit aim is fifty million Euro. We're going to make this an international product marketed in the States, in Europe, in Asia. And um our production cost to make that profit is gonna be a max of twelve fifty Euro per remote. Okay. So we're gonna talk for a little while. Um here are some topics that we might be able to discuss. Expe our experiences with remote controls um, our first ideas about this new remote, anything that you can bring to the table for this project. So.User Interface: NowProject Manager: Yeah. You wanna start us off Anybody have anything to offerUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we wanna make a multifunctional remote, rightProject Manager: Right.Industrial Designer: One remote for everything.User Interface: And everything being {disfmarker} Wait, we have what, sound system, T_V_, D_V_D_, V_H_S_, uh TiVoMarketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Um. I think they'll be phasing V_H_S_ out shortly.Marketing: Yeah, TiVo.Project Manager: TiVo.User Interface: But it's still there, soIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: if po if we're gonna do it {disfmarker}Marketing: It needs to be compatible'cause universal remote controls are never universal.Project Manager: They're never universal. That's right. Esp e especially if you buy a a not big product, D_V_D_ player, say, usually it doesn't work if it's not one of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Or if it's not like a Sony, if it's like a {disfmarker} I don't know.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Something from Sam's club.Industrial Designer: So we'll have to figure it how to cover all the different variances in signals.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: And what we need an insanely good instruction booklet, because you always have to reconfigure all your contraptions to go with the remote anyways.Project Manager: Yeah.'Kay, and um else Alright. Moving along. Oh, we're closing the meeting. Next meeting is gonna start in thirty minutes. Here's what we're going to do. Um the I_D_, which is who Okay, you're going to think about the working design. What do you think that means {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And U_I_D_, the technical fun functions design,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: making sure it does everything that we need the remote to do, the functionality of it, operating all those different things. Okay. And the marketing person, that's Courtney, is going to do the user requirements specification. I guess that means specifying um what exactly the user is going to be looking for. Right I would think so. Okay.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: And you're gonna get more specific instructions emailed to you in just a little while. Okay, so does anybody have anything they wanna say before we close the meeting Okay. This meeting is officially over.

What is Industrial Designer's opinion on dealing with the compatibility of the remote

Industrial Designer perceived that the single remote should be able to control every possible device, and this would be rather difficult to achieve. Industrial Designer thought that VHSs would be phased out shortly, but they should still take it into consideration for the time being. Industrial Designer drew the conclusion that they had to make sure it could cover all the variances in signals.

Project Manager: Okay. Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product that we're gonna be designing. Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager. And I know all your names again, Courtney, Fenella and Amber.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Alright. Okay,Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint. I wonder what button I pressUser Interface: Just do it on the {gap} arrow.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah, or how about I just click Okay, here is our agenda for this meeting. Um we're gonna start with our opening which was our introductions. {vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better. Um tool training, we're going to, I guess, figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles. Um we're gonna make a project plan and then have some time for discussion and close up the meeting. Okay, here is our project. We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original, trendy and also user-friendly. And how we are going to do it is each of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have {disfmarker} discuss the functional design first, {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used, what's the actual goal here, it has to operate T_V_, blah blah blah. And we're going to do individual work on that and then meet. Same thing with conceptual design. Just the basic overview of the project and then we're going to do individual work, meet. That's pretty much the the whole process for today. And then the detailed design, just more in-depth, get the actual schematics of the remote. Okay. Alright. First we're gonna start off by using our tools. And the whiteboard thing, do you guys wanna give that a try even though the ink wasn't working or business here.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um the selling price for our remote is going to be twenty-five Euro, and our profit aim is fifty million Euro. We're going to make this an international product marketed in the States, in Europe, in Asia. And um our production cost to make that profit is gonna be a max of twelve fifty Euro per remote. Okay. So we're gonna talk for a little while. Um here are some topics that we might be able to discuss. Expe our experiences with remote controls um, our first ideas about this new remote, anything that you can bring to the table for this project. So.User Interface: NowProject Manager: Yeah. You wanna start us off Anybody have anything to offerUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we wanna make a multifunctional remote, rightProject Manager: Right.Industrial Designer: One remote for everything.User Interface: And everything being {disfmarker} Wait, we have what, sound system, T_V_, D_V_D_, V_H_S_, uh TiVoMarketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Um. I think they'll be phasing V_H_S_ out shortly.Marketing: Yeah, TiVo.Project Manager: TiVo.User Interface: But it's still there, soIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: if po if we're gonna do it {disfmarker}Marketing: It needs to be compatible'cause universal remote controls are never universal.Project Manager: They're never universal. That's right. Esp e especially if you buy a a not big product, D_V_D_ player, say, usually it doesn't work if it's not one of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Or if it's not like a Sony, if it's like a {disfmarker} I don't know.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Something from Sam's club.Industrial Designer: So we'll have to figure it how to cover all the different variances in signals.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: And what we need an insanely good instruction booklet, because you always have to reconfigure all your contraptions to go with the remote anyways.Project Manager: Yeah.'Kay, and um another thing that I think is important is the d the design of the product, how it feels in your hand. If it's just flat and kind of boring th those don't {disfmarker} Nobody wants to buy those any more. They want the ergonomic ones.Marketing: They want like the flashy lights.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Oh like this came from Las Vegas.Project Manager: Ones that ones that look high-tech, too.User Interface: But at the same time are simple.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Mm yeah.Project Manager: So that people like my mother can use it.Industrial Designer: What about something with the curvature like that matches the curvature of a handProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:'Kay. Anybody have any experiences with remote controls that they can remember that {disfmarker}User Interface: Just bad ones. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah {gap}. {vocalsound} That's true.User Interface: Um.Industrial Designer: What kinda battery would we want to use Because battery changing is usually {disfmarker}User Interface: D Double A_.Marketing: Double A_.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Do some of them use triple A_s thoughMarketing: Yeah some use triple A_s.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Some but {disfmarker}Marketing: So double or tripleUser Interface: Yeah, I guess then it's {disfmarker} If we need to do triple A_ we can, but most people usually have double A_s around.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah. But that has to do with the size of it too. Well, w as long as we know that issue is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: Here we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, if we want it to be more thin, then we'd probably wanna go with a triple A_.Project Manager: Triple A. ButIndustrial Designer: Can you {gap} with a small lithium batteryProject Manager: it's okay, we don't have to decide about it now, just as long as we remember battery type and size is important.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hey. Anything do you wanna do it on here.Industrial Designer: I think we should forgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing.Marketing: We could {disfmarker} Yeah, we could on here.Project Manager: Alright, let's go forward then.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sum up our favourite characteristics of that animal. Even if you are not a good drawer like me.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright.Industrial Designer: Artistic skills, nil.User Interface: Fine.Project Manager: Um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, thanks. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay, about one more minute. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And who would like to start us offMarketing: I'll go.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um this is my picture. I drew fish {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish, because uh, you know, their whole water-vascular system thing.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool, and um they've got a pretty good habitat and they are pretty sometimes, sometimes vicious but that's okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, they they're easy, you know.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants to go nextIndustrial Designer: I'll go.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty. It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat, but I love cats.Marketing: No I I see it.Project Manager: No, it looks like a cat.User Interface: No, I kne I knew.Marketing: Yeah, it does look like a cat.Industrial Designer: I love cats because they're independent, uh they pretty much know what they want, they get it, they move on. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats, too. I'm a cat person.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I'm allergic to cats.Project Manager: Uh.Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats, too. {vocalsound}User Interface: Ah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: If you're around one {disfmarker}User Interface: In my next life.Project Manager: I had a roommate who was um allergic, but if she was around my cat forever she became used to it, you know,Marketing: Yeah, yeah, if you're around them for a long period of time {disfmarker}Project Manager: it's weird. Okay. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I still can't sleep with them in my room.Marketing: Oh, yeah, this summer I, oh I had to live with cats. It was crazy.Project Manager: Okay, FenellaMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: Um, I drew a badger. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Badger. Good choice.Industrial Designer: Yay.Marketing: Cool. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Well, yeah.Project Manager: Why a badgerUser Interface: {vocalsound} Uh I dunno, they're grumpy and nocturnal and {vocalsound} {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Are you trying to suggest somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Well, a little bit like the {disfmarker} Yes. Um. {vocalsound} And then, if you know Wind in the Willows {gap} badger.Marketing: Oh, okay.User Interface: Yeah and then uh I don't know if you know Brian {gap}. He's Liverpudlian writer.Project Manager: Alright.User Interface: Um {gap}, that kind of books. Badgers are cool in that one too. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And I'm last.'Kay. Look at my sad sad giraffe.Marketing: No, that's good.Project Manager: No, no, no, it ends up looking like some kind of a dinosaur, but whatever. I don't know even much about giraffes, but I just love the way they look. They're just such odd creatures, you know. I I like that they're so unique and individual, I guess. I don't know much about their behaviour or anything, though. Only seen a couple in zoos.Marketing: You don't really have to, I mean, if you like'em {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, but you can appreciate the way they look. Okay. Alright. Guess we're getting straight back into

In the discussion of first ideas on the design, what did they decide on the battery type at the meeting

The team first hesitated between double A and triple A batteries. Double A's would be more convenient for customers, since most people usually have this type around. However, triple A batteries would allow the remote to be thinner. Industrial Designer then proposed that they could also try a small lithium battery. With all these possible options, Project Manager decided that they should leave this question aside and move on with the meeting, as long as they kept the battery problem in mind.

Project Manager: Okay. Hi everybody and welcome to our kick-off meeting um for our new product that we're gonna be designing. Um I'm Mandy and I'm the Project Manager. And I know all your names again, Courtney, Fenella and Amber.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: Alright. Okay,Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: so first let's go through this PowerPoint. I wonder what button I pressUser Interface: Just do it on the {gap} arrow.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah, or how about I just click Okay, here is our agenda for this meeting. Um we're gonna start with our opening which was our introductions. {vocalsound} We're gonna get to know each other a little bit better. Um tool training, we're going to, I guess, figure out what to do on this project with our individual roles. Um we're gonna make a project plan and then have some time for discussion and close up the meeting. Okay, here is our project. We're gonna make a new remote control that's um original, trendy and also user-friendly. And how we are going to do it is each of us is going to um {disfmarker} We're gonna have {disfmarker} discuss the functional design first, {vocalsound} how is it gonna be used, what's the actual goal here, it has to operate T_V_, blah blah blah. And we're going to do individual work on that and then meet. Same thing with conceptual design. Just the basic overview of the project and then we're going to do individual work, meet. That's pretty much the the whole process for today. And then the detailed design, just more in-depth, get the actual schematics of the remote. Okay. Alright. First we're gonna start off by using our tools. And the whiteboard thing, do you guys wanna give that a try even though the ink wasn't working or business here.User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: Um the selling price for our remote is going to be twenty-five Euro, and our profit aim is fifty million Euro. We're going to make this an international product marketed in the States, in Europe, in Asia. And um our production cost to make that profit is gonna be a max of twelve fifty Euro per remote. Okay. So we're gonna talk for a little while. Um here are some topics that we might be able to discuss. Expe our experiences with remote controls um, our first ideas about this new remote, anything that you can bring to the table for this project. So.User Interface: NowProject Manager: Yeah. You wanna start us off Anybody have anything to offerUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well, we wanna make a multifunctional remote, rightProject Manager: Right.Industrial Designer: One remote for everything.User Interface: And everything being {disfmarker} Wait, we have what, sound system, T_V_, D_V_D_, V_H_S_, uh TiVoMarketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Um. I think they'll be phasing V_H_S_ out shortly.Marketing: Yeah, TiVo.Project Manager: TiVo.User Interface: But it's still there, soIndustrial Designer: Okay.User Interface: if po if we're gonna do it {disfmarker}Marketing: It needs to be compatible'cause universal remote controls are never universal.Project Manager: They're never universal. That's right. Esp e especially if you buy a a not big product, D_V_D_ player, say, usually it doesn't work if it's not one of the {disfmarker}User Interface: Or if it's not like a Sony, if it's like a {disfmarker} I don't know.Project Manager: Yeah. Yeah. Something from Sam's club.Industrial Designer: So we'll have to figure it how to cover all the different variances in signals.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: And what we need an insanely good instruction booklet, because you always have to reconfigure all your contraptions to go with the remote anyways.Project Manager: Yeah.'Kay, and um another thing that I think is important is the d the design of the product, how it feels in your hand. If it's just flat and kind of boring th those don't {disfmarker} Nobody wants to buy those any more. They want the ergonomic ones.Marketing: They want like the flashy lights.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Oh like this came from Las Vegas.Project Manager: Ones that ones that look high-tech, too.User Interface: But at the same time are simple.Project Manager: Right.Marketing: Mm yeah.Project Manager: So that people like my mother can use it.Industrial Designer: What about something with the curvature like that matches the curvature of a handProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager:'Kay. Anybody have any experiences with remote controls that they can remember that {disfmarker}User Interface: Just bad ones. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah {gap}. {vocalsound} That's true.User Interface: Um.Industrial Designer: What kinda battery would we want to use Because battery changing is usually {disfmarker}User Interface: D Double A_.Marketing: Double A_.Industrial Designer: Okay.Project Manager: Do some of them use triple A_s thoughMarketing: Yeah some use triple A_s.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Some but {disfmarker}Marketing: So double or tripleUser Interface: Yeah, I guess then it's {disfmarker} If we need to do triple A_ we can, but most people usually have double A_s around.Project Manager: Okay. Yeah. But that has to do with the size of it too. Well, w as long as we know that issue is {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: Right.Project Manager: Here we can {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, if we want it to be more thin, then we'd probably wanna go with a triple A_.Project Manager: Triple A. ButIndustrial Designer: Can you {gap} with a small lithium batteryProject Manager: it's okay, we don't have to decide about it now, just as long as we remember battery type and size is important.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Hey. Anything do you wanna do it on here.Industrial Designer: I think we should forgo the whiteboard since we can't actually see what we're writing.Marketing: We could {disfmarker} Yeah, we could on here.Project Manager: Alright, let's go forward then.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um right now so we're all gonna draw our favourite animal and then sum up our favourite characteristics of that animal. Even if you are not a good drawer like me.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright.Industrial Designer: Artistic skills, nil.User Interface: Fine.Project Manager: Um.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh, thanks. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Bless you.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} I draw like I'm in grade five.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Oh do I.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}'Kay, about one more minute. {vocalsound} Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And who would like to start us offMarketing: I'll go.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: {vocalsound} Um this is my picture. I drew fish {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I like fish, because uh, you know, their whole water-vascular system thing.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's pretty cool, and um they've got a pretty good habitat and they are pretty sometimes, sometimes vicious but that's okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Only if they're piranhas.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah, they they're easy, you know.Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Who wants to go nextIndustrial Designer: I'll go.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I drew a kitty. It's pretty much impossible to tell that's a cat, but I love cats.Marketing: No I I see it.Project Manager: No, it looks like a cat.User Interface: No, I kne I knew.Marketing: Yeah, it does look like a cat.Industrial Designer: I love cats because they're independent, uh they pretty much know what they want, they get it, they move on. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I love cats, too. I'm a cat person.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I'm allergic to cats.Project Manager: Uh.Industrial Designer: I'm allergic to cats, too. else Alright. Moving along. Oh, we're closing the meeting. Next meeting is gonna start in thirty minutes. Here's what we're going to do. Um the I_D_, which is who Okay, you're going to think about the working design. What do you think that means {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. And U_I_D_, the technical fun functions design,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: making sure it does everything that we need the remote to do, the functionality of it, operating all those different things. Okay. And the marketing person, that's Courtney, is going to do the user requirements specification. I guess that means specifying um what exactly the user is going to be looking for. Right I would think so. Okay.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: And you're gonna get more specific instructions emailed to you in just a little while. Okay, so does anybody have anything they wanna say before we close the meeting Okay. This meeting is officially over.

Summarize the whole meeting.

This is the first of a series of meetings devoted to the design of a remote control, and it aims only at the proposition of general first ideas on the project. Project Manager started off the meeting by introducing the team and their plan for the project. The team got to know each other better by drawing out their favourite animals and justifying their choice. Project Manager then invited everyone to raise ideas about the remote. Their discussion included its multifunctional nature, ergonomic design and battery type, but there was no final decision on these matters. The work was split among the team members, as each took up the task of the working design, the technical functions design, or marketing.

now,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high. So, I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but you know, when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe. Uh. Components to use, I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit. It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec YeahMarketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit, or are we planning to construct our own circuit boardIndustrial Designer: No no no no no. This we this we buy I think, because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves.Marketing: Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition. This I prefer that we should make ourselves.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it. Same thing. It's fairly expensive to use these circuits. So, speech recognition {disfmarker} well, L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_, less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit.Project Manager: Designer: You mean like hierarchical structure.Project Manager: And inside this this thing you can move, maybe switch.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Okay. Like categorising channels.Project Manager: If you want to see a movie you click on the movie button so you have all the movie channels and after you've you plus plus plus.Industrial Designer: Okay, so sUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Oh sorry.Project Manager: I It just an idea.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: I don't know what you think about that but.Industrial Designer: So it requires the use of L_C_D_ probably, to to tell you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, probably, yeah, yeah.Marketing: To have some feedback. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so I'll make a note on L_C_D_.Marketing: We could maybe also c um incorporate Petre's idea of the um slider for the volume, with the channel.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we c you could quickly just {vocalsound} {vocalsound} through many channels.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Like roller for the {disfmarker} Yeah. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} For the channels, perhaps.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anything elseMarketing: So we've got channel and volume. Um.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So we are still s speaking about the common devicesUser Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: or we are inviting the new oneMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think basically the core functions we want, and then more advanced ones.Project Manager: What about the settings of the T_V_ Because it's button we don't use very often, but it's {disfmarker} we need it anyway. So {disfmarker}User Interface: So uh we don't have any uh we don't have uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: we should just design the remote control and we sh we don't have any access to the to the T_V_ design or we can change some design. Because one solution for this um uh uh ch changing channels is to see a summary of all Project Manager: {vocalsound} So um nice to see you again. Uh. So, uh. Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes. Uh so we will see our three presentations. Um we will start with the uh Manager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements, whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device.Marketing: Okay, can I have the laptop over here, orProject Manager: Yep. Oh, I don't think so. I think you have to come here.Marketing: Okay. Have to get up. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno. I think it should stay.Marketing: Excuse me.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: Should stay in the square here. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Oh, maybe.Marketing: Okay, so basically I'm gonna present some findings of a study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control.Project Manager: Oh, you can put it here. Oh that's okay, it's jusMarketing: Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducted a an experiment with a hundred test subjects. Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to, you know, um play with remote controls, and also to complete, after they'd done that, to complete a questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feel of of most remote controls that are currently on the market. Um they, you know, seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on, found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used in the past were ugly. Completely ugly. Um they they didn't Yeah.Industrial Designer: But the speech recognition we have to compare whether the price and the {disfmarker} what does it offer, you know.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So what do you think would be the price, it would be out of rangeIndustrial Designer: Yeah, I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or it would be maybe feasibleIndustrial Designer: Oh. I was not thinking too much about the price. But if we use the L_C_D_ uh even the radio frequency communication with the T_V_ set and the backlight and uh related things like the photo diodes and stuff, it should be okay. If we decide to use the speech recognition, then we probably could struggle but we'll see afterwards.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: It depends of you if if the M_E_ or U_I_D_,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: I'm sorry about the names, I don't really know, uh want to have it like in metal or in plastic, these things, it it depends on you not {disfmarker} Because the the the electronic device's price is not not so big in comparison to to the overall shape and stuff like that, so.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We will discuss it afterwards. Oh, this is nothing. This is just my notes on what to use. And uh my personal preference is yes, I would like also preferably to use R_W_ circuit, but from the point of view uh of the design and price, I would stick to I_R_s. That's my opinion. Uh I mean if infra-red uh circuit not not the radio frequency.Project Manager: Why Because it's simplerIndustrial Designer: Because because the the range where you can use it is fair.Project Manager: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: It's okay I think. And the price is fairly cheap for this.Project Manager: Okay. It's a a price matter.Industrial Designer: Well, depends.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Jus just the price.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: Otherwise I don't care what I put there because it's the chip which I buy or which we buy.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I I think it's o y o {vocalsound}.Marketing: What how much more expensive Are we talking three times more expensiveProject Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Well, three to three to five.Marketing: Or ten times more expensive Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: N not ten times,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: but it depends what what we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah yeah. That's still a lot. I think it's it's probably not worth spending the extra money,Project Manager: Hmm. Yeah.Marketing: because I mean all the other remote controls on the market have infra-red, so people don't expect anything other than infra-red.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So it's not worth spending the extra money.Project Manager: Well I {gap}, oh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Th they are used to use it when they can see the T_V_ so, I don't know.Project Manager: On the other side, we want to have something new.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: You know, whereMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we want to to have something new and So we I think we should still thinking about it. But maybe {gap}.Marketing: But I think, based on my usability studies I th I feel that users are {disfmarker} prioritise the look and the feel and the trendiness above, you know, the difference between infra-red or radio waves.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So I think we're better off spending money in the usability phase.Industrial Designer: {gap} You the user interface, and management man, uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh okay, that's it for me.Project Manager: Okay, thank you Peter.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: So um I have to inform you I receive an email from the management bon board today and they have new requirements for

Summarize the discussion about high technology features.

Marketing had concluded that younger users might be more expected to use high technology features such as LCD display and speech recognition. However, the industrial designer was worried it would influence the design of circuits and make the price out of range, while marketing thought they could afford it. Industrial designer also mentioned that they should care about battery life if speech recognition was used.

now,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high. So, I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but you know, when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe. Uh. Components to use, I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit. It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec YeahMarketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit, or are we planning to construct our own circuit boardIndustrial Designer: No no no no no. This we this we buy I think, because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves.Marketing: Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition. This I prefer that we should make ourselves.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it. Same thing. It's fairly expensive to use these circuits. So, speech recognition {disfmarker} well, L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_, less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit.Project Manager: Project Manager: {vocalsound} So um nice to see you again. Uh. So, uh. Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes. Uh so we will see our three presentations. Um we will start with the uh Manager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements, whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device.Marketing: Okay, can I have the laptop over here, orProject Manager: Yep. Oh, I don't think so. I think you have to come here.Marketing: Okay. Have to get up. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno. I think it should stay.Marketing: Excuse me.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: Should stay in the square here. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Oh, maybe.Marketing: Okay, so basically I'm gonna present some findings of a study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control.Project Manager: Oh, you can put it here. Oh that's okay, it's jusMarketing: Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducted a an experiment with a hundred test subjects. Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to, you know, um play with remote controls, and also to complete, after they'd done that, to complete a questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feel of of most remote controls that are currently on the market. Um they, you know, seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on, found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used in the past were ugly. Completely ugly. Um they they didn't the T_V_,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: well {disfmarker} And based on your {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Very, yeah okay, very occasionally.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: But I do use the I do use the display of the time quite often, but {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah but it can be on the display in in a corner all the time on the remote.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah that's okay, that's true. Okay, so no time button {gap}. Okay.Project Manager: No time on {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: And uh do we need to include anything about the speech recognition and the speech commands, orIndustrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: I think {disfmarker}User Interface: I I thin I think it will not take lots of place, we just need a microphone and the software, so, and it sh and it will be a little bit new and interesting, so people may be attracted to buy this stuff and it's not very difficult to uh put a software inside the the electronic device and put a microphone. It doesn't take that much place and also that much {disfmarker} It doesn't cost that much.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah but we we should be careful about the battery life, then. If we use the speech recognition.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So maybe we think {disfmarker} we can think more about that, and discuss that maybe last time {disfmarker} next time.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: And uh yeah, now the meeting room is busy. Somebody booked the meeting room just for {disfmarker} at one P_M_, and so we should leave. Uh. So, um. So now we are going for for a small lunch. It's uh funded by the company. And uh after we have uh thirteen minutes to to do indevel individual works. And uh I will do the minutes. And uh you are going to work on your individual works. And uh you will receive as usual your specific instruction and so on.Marketing: Okay,Project Manager: Thank you everybody.Marketing: cool. OkayUser Interface: Thanks.Marketing: Thank you. match the operating behaviour of the user, that is, you know, the the way users use remote controls when they're watching T_V_. Um, that the layout of the remote controls didn't match they way that they used it. Um and thirdly they say that w half of the users that we um tested said that they only used ten percent of the buttons that uh are on remote controls. Um so we collect we also some collected some usage statistics uh based on how these test subjects were using their remote control. And from this we basically came up with the figure that the channel buttons, the channel selection buttons are the most {disfmarker} by far the most used buttons on the remote control. Um and you can see they're used a hundred and sixty eight times per hour on average, um, while the user's watching T_V_.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um the closest button that was used, well the cl the button that was used that was closest to the channel button was the teletext button, um which was used fourteen times per hour, followed by the volume button, which was four times per hour, um, all the other, all the other um buttons, such as ch um audio and picture selection um configuration buttons and things were used, you know, l approx well less than or equal to one times per hour. Um we also asked users um which buttons had the most importance to them, you know, which which buttons they felt were the most important buttons on on the remote control. And basically they came {disfmarker} they said the channel, volume, and power buttons had the highest relevance to users, um note that only power was very infrequently used, it only had a b a a {vocalsound} pe um people said that the power button was v a very relevant button.Project Manager: Oh okay, yeah.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Um, you know, it was nine out of tenIndustrial Designer: Okay, so we we could p what we could probably do is to keep also to keep uh keep the L_C_D_ and all the buttons and stuff,Marketing: re relevance.Industrial Designer: we could make it like a opening opening style that if you open it you are {disfmarker} you just turn on the T_V_ and if you close it, it willProject Manager: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: turn off the T_V_.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: If if you like this, {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. B Okay.Industrial Designer: Because, well {gap} {disfmarker} it's maybe question for you tMarketing: I think we need to concentrate on the, you know, the major usage of the th of the control,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: which is you sit down, you turn on your T_V_, you change channels, you change the volume, you turn the T_V_ off.Project Manager: Yeah. So s yeah.Marketing: Um and all the other f functionality isIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, they can yeah they can be hide somewhere by a cover or something like this.Marketing: not used very often.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Like covering cu.Project Manager: On the back, or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah. I mean like the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, like mobile phone covering.Industrial Designer: Yeah but since we have the L_C_D_, we didn't need too much button too many buttons. Um, okay, just um the decision of the power button.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Should we make it a button, or some some something which would be {disfmarker}Project Manager: For whatIndustrial Designer: Uh power button.Marketing: I think a button.User Interface: A button is better.Project Manager: Ah oh yeah, yeah.Marketing: I think it should be a buIndustrial

Summarize user interface's opinions towards radio wave interference.

User interface said that they could make this wave in specific frequency to avoid interfering with other devices. A password could also be put inside the wave in case that two neighbours had the same remote controls. If two devices were trying to go to communicate with the TV set, then the wave with more energy was chosen.

now,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high. So, I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but you know, when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe. Uh. Components to use, I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit. It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec YeahMarketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit, or are we planning to construct our own circuit boardIndustrial Designer: No no no no no. This we this we buy I think, because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves.Marketing: Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition. This I prefer that we should make ourselves.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it. Same thing. It's fairly expensive to use these circuits. So, speech recognition {disfmarker} well, L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_, less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit.Project Manager: Designer: You mean like hierarchical structure.Project Manager: And inside this this thing you can move, maybe switch.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Okay. Like categorising channels.Project Manager: If you want to see a movie you click on the movie button so you have all the movie channels and after you've you plus plus plus.Industrial Designer: Okay, so sUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Oh sorry.Project Manager: I It just an idea.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: I don't know what you think about that but.Industrial Designer: So it requires the use of L_C_D_ probably, to to tell you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, probably, yeah, yeah.Marketing: To have some feedback. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so I'll make a note on L_C_D_.Marketing: We could maybe also c um incorporate Petre's idea of the um slider for the volume, with the channel.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we c you could quickly just {vocalsound} {vocalsound} through many channels.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Like roller for the {disfmarker} Yeah. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} For the channels, perhaps.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anything elseMarketing: So we've got channel and volume. Um.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So we are still s speaking about the common devicesUser Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: or we are inviting the new oneMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think basically the core functions we want, and then more advanced ones.Project Manager: What about the settings of the T_V_ Because it's button we don't use very often, but it's {disfmarker} we need it anyway. So {disfmarker}User Interface: So uh we don't have any uh we don't have uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: we should just design the remote control and we sh we don't have any access to the to the T_V_ design or we can change some design. Because one solution for this um uh uh ch changing channels is to see a summary of all match the operating behaviour of the user, that is, you know, the the way users use remote controls when they're watching T_V_. Um, that the layout of the remote controls didn't match they way that they used it. Um and thirdly they say that w half of the users that we um tested said that they only used ten percent of the buttons that uh are on remote controls. Um so we collect we also some collected some usage statistics uh based on how these test subjects were using their remote control. And from this we basically came up with the figure that the channel buttons, the channel selection buttons are the most {disfmarker} by far the most used buttons on the remote control. Um and you can see they're used a hundred and sixty eight times per hour on average, um, while the user's watching T_V_.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um the closest button that was used, well the cl the button that was used that was closest to the channel button was the teletext button, um which was used fourteen times per hour, followed by the volume button, which was four times per hour, um, all the other, all the other um buttons, such as ch um audio and picture selection um configuration buttons and things were used, you know, l approx well less than or equal to one times per hour. Um we also asked users um which buttons had the most importance to them, you know, which which buttons they felt were the most important buttons on on the remote control. And basically they came {disfmarker} they said the channel, volume, and power buttons had the highest relevance to users, um note that only power was very infrequently used, it only had a b a a {vocalsound} pe um people said that the power button was v a very relevant button.Project Manager: Oh okay, yeah.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Um, you know, it was nine out of tenIndustrial Designer: Okay, so we we could p what we could probably do is to keep also to keep uh keep the L_C_D_ and all the buttons and stuff,Marketing: re relevance.Industrial Designer: we could make it like a opening opening style that if you open it you are {disfmarker} you just turn on the T_V_ and if you close it, it willProject Manager: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: turn off the T_V_.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: If if you like this, {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. B Okay.Industrial Designer: Because, well {gap} {disfmarker} it's maybe question for you tMarketing: I think we need to concentrate on the, you know, the major usage of the th of the control,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: which is you sit down, you turn on your T_V_, you change channels, you change the volume, you turn the T_V_ off.Project Manager: Yeah. So s yeah.Marketing: Um and all the other f functionality isIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, they can yeah they can be hide somewhere by a cover or something like this.Marketing: not used very often.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Like covering cu.Project Manager: On the back, or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah. I mean like the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, like mobile phone covering.Industrial Designer: Yeah but since we have the L_C_D_, we didn't need too much button too many buttons. Um, okay, just um the decision of the power button.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Should we make it a button, or some some something which would be {disfmarker}Project Manager: For whatIndustrial Designer: Uh power button.Marketing: I think a button.User Interface: A button is better.Project Manager: Ah oh yeah, yeah.Marketing: I think it should be a buIndustrial Project Manager: {vocalsound} So um nice to see you again. Uh. So, uh. Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes. Uh so we will see our three presentations. Um we will start with the uh Manager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements, whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device.Marketing: Okay, can I have the laptop over here, orProject Manager: Yep. Oh, I don't think so. I think you have to come here.Marketing: Okay. Have to get up. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno. I think it should stay.Marketing: Excuse me.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: Should stay in the square here. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Oh, maybe.Marketing: Okay, so basically I'm gonna present some findings of a study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control.Project Manager: Oh, you can put it here. Oh that's okay, it's jusMarketing: Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducted a an experiment with a hundred test subjects. Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to, you know, um play with remote controls, and also to complete, after they'd done that, to complete a questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feel of of most remote controls that are currently on the market. Um they, you know, seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on, found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used in the past were ugly. Completely ugly. Um they they didn't

Summarize industrial designer's opinions towards whether the price would be out of range when discussing the cost of different factors.

Industrial designer thought that if they only used LCD displays, backlight radio frequency communication with the TV set and other related things, the price would be ok. However, if speech recognition was required, the price would be out of range. And he preferred IR circuits because it was much cheaper.

now,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high. So, I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but you know, when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe. Uh. Components to use, I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit. It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec YeahMarketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit, or are we planning to construct our own circuit boardIndustrial Designer: No no no no no. This we this we buy I think, because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves.Marketing: Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition. This I prefer that we should make ourselves.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it. Same thing. It's fairly expensive to use these circuits. So, speech recognition {disfmarker} well, L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_, less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: But the speech recognition we have to compare whether the price and the {disfmarker} what does it offer, you know.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So what do you think would be the price, it would be out of rangeIndustrial Designer: Yeah, I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or it would be maybe feasibleIndustrial Designer: Oh. I was not thinking too much about the price. But if we use the L_C_D_ uh even the radio frequency communication with the T_V_ set and the backlight and uh related things like the photo diodes and stuff, it should be okay. If we decide to use the speech recognition, then we probably could struggle but we'll see afterwards.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: It depends of you if if the M_E_ or U_I_D_,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: I'm sorry about the names, I don't really know, uh want to have it like in metal or in plastic, these things, it it depends on you not {disfmarker} Because the the the electronic device's price is not not so big in comparison to to the overall shape and stuff like that, so.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We will discuss it afterwards. Oh, this is nothing. This is just my notes on what to use. And uh my personal preference is yes, I would like also preferably to use R_W_ circuit, but from the point of view uh of the design and price, I would stick to I_R_s. That's my opinion. Uh I mean if infra-red uh circuit not not the radio frequency.Project Manager: Why Because it's simplerIndustrial Designer: Because because the the range where you can use it is fair.Project Manager: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: It's okay I think. And the price is fairly cheap for this.Project Manager: Okay. It's a a price matter.Industrial Designer: Well, depends.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Jus just the the T_V_,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: well {disfmarker} And based on your {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Very, yeah okay, very occasionally.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: But I do use the I do use the display of the time quite often, but {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah but it can be on the display in in a corner all the time on the remote.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah that's okay, that's true. Okay, so no time button {gap}. Okay.Project Manager: No time on {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: And uh do we need to include anything about the speech recognition and the speech commands, orIndustrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: I think {disfmarker}User Interface: I I thin I think it will not take lots of place, we just need a microphone and the software, so, and it sh and it will be a little bit new and interesting, so people may be attracted to buy this stuff and it's not very difficult to uh put a software inside the the electronic device and put a microphone. It doesn't take that much place and also that much {disfmarker} It doesn't cost that much.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah but we we should be careful about the battery life, then. If we use the speech recognition.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So maybe we think {disfmarker} we can think more about that, and discuss that maybe last time {disfmarker} next time.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: And uh yeah, now the meeting room is busy. Somebody booked the meeting room just for {disfmarker} at one P_M_, and so we should leave. Uh. So, um. So now we are going for for a small lunch. It's uh funded by the company. And uh after we have uh thirteen minutes to to do indevel individual works. And uh I will do the minutes. And uh you are going to work on your individual works. And uh you will receive as usual your specific instruction and so on.Marketing: Okay,Project Manager: Thank you everybody.Marketing: cool. OkayUser Interface: Thanks.Marketing: Thank you. Project Manager: {vocalsound} So um nice to see you again. Uh. So, uh. Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes. Uh so we will see our three presentations. Um we will start with the uh Manager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements, whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device.Marketing: Okay, can I have the laptop over here, orProject Manager: Yep. Oh, I don't think so. I think you have to come here.Marketing: Okay. Have to get up. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno. I think it should stay.Marketing: Excuse me.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: Should stay in the square here. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Oh, maybe.Marketing: Okay, so basically I'm gonna present some findings of a study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control.Project Manager: Oh, you can put it here. Oh that's okay, it's jusMarketing: Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducted a an experiment with a hundred test subjects. Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to, you know, um play with remote controls, and also to complete, after they'd done that, to complete a questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feel of of most remote controls that are currently on the market. Um they, you know, seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on, found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used in the past were ugly. Completely ugly. Um they they didn't price.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: Otherwise I don't care what I put there because it's the chip which I buy or which we buy.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I I think it's o y o {vocalsound}.Marketing: What how much more expensive Are we talking three times more expensiveProject Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Well, three to three to five.Marketing: Or ten times more expensive Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: N not ten times,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: but it depends what what we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah yeah. That's still a lot. I think it's it's probably not worth spending the extra money,Project Manager: Hmm. Yeah.Marketing: because I mean all the other remote controls on the market have infra-red, so people don't expect anything other than infra-red.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So it's not worth spending the extra money.Project Manager: Well I {gap}, oh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Th they are used to use it when they can see the T_V_ so, I don't know.Project Manager: On the other side, we want to have something new.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: You know, whereMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we want to to have something new and So we I think we should still thinking about it. But maybe {gap}.Marketing: But I think, based on my usability studies I th I feel that users are {disfmarker} prioritise the look and the feel and the trendiness above, you know, the difference between infra-red or radio waves.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So I think we're better off spending money in the usability phase.Industrial Designer: {gap} You the user interface, and management man, uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh okay, that's it for me.Project Manager: Okay, thank you Peter.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: So um I have to inform you I receive an email from the management bon board today and they have new requirements for

What did the group think of buttons when discussing basic functions.

They wanted the number of buttons to be as small as possible and only stuck on useful functions. They thought that channel changing and volume setting button was obviously needed. There could also be key buttons which were used to select a specific channel. An individual power button was also considered necessary after discussion. But the user interface rejected having a TV setting button on the remote control.

now,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high. So, I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but you know, when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe. Uh. Components to use, I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit. It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec YeahMarketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit, or are we planning to construct our own circuit boardIndustrial Designer: No no no no no. This we this we buy I think, because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves.Marketing: Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition. This I prefer that we should make ourselves.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it. Same thing. It's fairly expensive to use these circuits. So, speech recognition {disfmarker} well, L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_, less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit.Project Manager: the T_V_,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: well {disfmarker} And based on your {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Very, yeah okay, very occasionally.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: But I do use the I do use the display of the time quite often, but {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah but it can be on the display in in a corner all the time on the remote.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah that's okay, that's true. Okay, so no time button {gap}. Okay.Project Manager: No time on {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: And uh do we need to include anything about the speech recognition and the speech commands, orIndustrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: I think {disfmarker}User Interface: I I thin I think it will not take lots of place, we just need a microphone and the software, so, and it sh and it will be a little bit new and interesting, so people may be attracted to buy this stuff and it's not very difficult to uh put a software inside the the electronic device and put a microphone. It doesn't take that much place and also that much {disfmarker} It doesn't cost that much.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah but we we should be careful about the battery life, then. If we use the speech recognition.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So maybe we think {disfmarker} we can think more about that, and discuss that maybe last time {disfmarker} next time.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: And uh yeah, now the meeting room is busy. Somebody booked the meeting room just for {disfmarker} at one P_M_, and so we should leave. Uh. So, um. So now we are going for for a small lunch. It's uh funded by the company. And uh after we have uh thirteen minutes to to do indevel individual works. And uh I will do the minutes. And uh you are going to work on your individual works. And uh you will receive as usual your specific instruction and so on.Marketing: Okay,Project Manager: Thank you everybody.Marketing: cool. OkayUser Interface: Thanks.Marketing: Thank you. Yeah.Industrial Designer: But the speech recognition we have to compare whether the price and the {disfmarker} what does it offer, you know.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So what do you think would be the price, it would be out of rangeIndustrial Designer: Yeah, I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or it would be maybe feasibleIndustrial Designer: Oh. I was not thinking too much about the price. But if we use the L_C_D_ uh even the radio frequency communication with the T_V_ set and the backlight and uh related things like the photo diodes and stuff, it should be okay. If we decide to use the speech recognition, then we probably could struggle but we'll see afterwards.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: It depends of you if if the M_E_ or U_I_D_,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: I'm sorry about the names, I don't really know, uh want to have it like in metal or in plastic, these things, it it depends on you not {disfmarker} Because the the the electronic device's price is not not so big in comparison to to the overall shape and stuff like that, so.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We will discuss it afterwards. Oh, this is nothing. This is just my notes on what to use. And uh my personal preference is yes, I would like also preferably to use R_W_ circuit, but from the point of view uh of the design and price, I would stick to I_R_s. That's my opinion. Uh I mean if infra-red uh circuit not not the radio frequency.Project Manager: Why Because it's simplerIndustrial Designer: Because because the the range where you can use it is fair.Project Manager: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: It's okay I think. And the price is fairly cheap for this.Project Manager: Okay. It's a a price matter.Industrial Designer: Well, depends.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Jus just the Designer: You mean like hierarchical structure.Project Manager: And inside this this thing you can move, maybe switch.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Okay. Like categorising channels.Project Manager: If you want to see a movie you click on the movie button so you have all the movie channels and after you've you plus plus plus.Industrial Designer: Okay, so sUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Oh sorry.Project Manager: I It just an idea.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: I don't know what you think about that but.Industrial Designer: So it requires the use of L_C_D_ probably, to to tell you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, probably, yeah, yeah.Marketing: To have some feedback. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so I'll make a note on L_C_D_.Marketing: We could maybe also c um incorporate Petre's idea of the um slider for the volume, with the channel.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we c you could quickly just {vocalsound} {vocalsound} through many channels.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Like roller for the {disfmarker} Yeah. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} For the channels, perhaps.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anything elseMarketing: So we've got channel and volume. Um.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So we are still s speaking about the common devicesUser Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: or we are inviting the new oneMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think basically the core functions we want, and then more advanced ones.Project Manager: What about the settings of the T_V_ Because it's button we don't use very often, but it's {disfmarker} we need it anyway. So {disfmarker}User Interface: So uh we don't have any uh we don't have uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: we should just design the remote control and we sh we don't have any access to the to the T_V_ design or we can change some design. Because one solution for this um uh uh ch changing channels is to see a summary of all price.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: Otherwise I don't care what I put there because it's the chip which I buy or which we buy.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I I think it's o y o {vocalsound}.Marketing: What how much more expensive Are we talking three times more expensiveProject Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Well, three to three to five.Marketing: Or ten times more expensive Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: N not ten times,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: but it depends what what we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah yeah. That's still a lot. I think it's it's probably not worth spending the extra money,Project Manager: Hmm. Yeah.Marketing: because I mean all the other remote controls on the market have infra-red, so people don't expect anything other than infra-red.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So it's not worth spending the extra money.Project Manager: Well I {gap}, oh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Th they are used to use it when they can see the T_V_ so, I don't know.Project Manager: On the other side, we want to have something new.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: You know, whereMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we want to to have something new and So we I think we should still thinking about it. But maybe {gap}.Marketing: But I think, based on my usability studies I th I feel that users are {disfmarker} prioritise the look and the feel and the trendiness above, you know, the difference between infra-red or radio waves.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So I think we're better off spending money in the usability phase.Industrial Designer: {gap} You the user interface, and management man, uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh okay, that's it for me.Project Manager: Okay, thank you Peter.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: So um I have to inform you I receive an email from the management bon board today and they have new requirements for

What did the group think of the clock or timer when discussing basic functions

The marketing hoped there would be some features on the control to display the name. Industrial designer also wondered about whether the time setting for turning on TV was useful. While the project manager thought that if time was added, a bigger display would be required, which was not useful for users.

now,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high. So, I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but you know, when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe. Uh. Components to use, I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit. It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec YeahMarketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit, or are we planning to construct our own circuit boardIndustrial Designer: No no no no no. This we this we buy I think, because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves.Marketing: Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition. This I prefer that we should make ourselves.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it. Same thing. It's fairly expensive to use these circuits. So, speech recognition {disfmarker} well, L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_, less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit.Project Manager: Designer: You mean like hierarchical structure.Project Manager: And inside this this thing you can move, maybe switch.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Okay. Like categorising channels.Project Manager: If you want to see a movie you click on the movie button so you have all the movie channels and after you've you plus plus plus.Industrial Designer: Okay, so sUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Oh sorry.Project Manager: I It just an idea.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: I don't know what you think about that but.Industrial Designer: So it requires the use of L_C_D_ probably, to to tell you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, probably, yeah, yeah.Marketing: To have some feedback. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so I'll make a note on L_C_D_.Marketing: We could maybe also c um incorporate Petre's idea of the um slider for the volume, with the channel.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we c you could quickly just {vocalsound} {vocalsound} through many channels.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Like roller for the {disfmarker} Yeah. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} For the channels, perhaps.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anything elseMarketing: So we've got channel and volume. Um.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So we are still s speaking about the common devicesUser Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: or we are inviting the new oneMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think basically the core functions we want, and then more advanced ones.Project Manager: What about the settings of the T_V_ Because it's button we don't use very often, but it's {disfmarker} we need it anyway. So {disfmarker}User Interface: So uh we don't have any uh we don't have uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: we should just design the remote control and we sh we don't have any access to the to the T_V_ design or we can change some design. Because one solution for this um uh uh ch changing channels is to see a summary of all Yeah.Industrial Designer: But the speech recognition we have to compare whether the price and the {disfmarker} what does it offer, you know.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So what do you think would be the price, it would be out of rangeIndustrial Designer: Yeah, I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or it would be maybe feasibleIndustrial Designer: Oh. I was not thinking too much about the price. But if we use the L_C_D_ uh even the radio frequency communication with the T_V_ set and the backlight and uh related things like the photo diodes and stuff, it should be okay. If we decide to use the speech recognition, then we probably could struggle but we'll see afterwards.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: It depends of you if if the M_E_ or U_I_D_,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: I'm sorry about the names, I don't really know, uh want to have it like in metal or in plastic, these things, it it depends on you not {disfmarker} Because the the the electronic device's price is not not so big in comparison to to the overall shape and stuff like that, so.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We will discuss it afterwards. Oh, this is nothing. This is just my notes on what to use. And uh my personal preference is yes, I would like also preferably to use R_W_ circuit, but from the point of view uh of the design and price, I would stick to I_R_s. That's my opinion. Uh I mean if infra-red uh circuit not not the radio frequency.Project Manager: Why Because it's simplerIndustrial Designer: Because because the the range where you can use it is fair.Project Manager: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: It's okay I think. And the price is fairly cheap for this.Project Manager: Okay. It's a a price matter.Industrial Designer: Well, depends.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Jus just the the T_V_,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: well {disfmarker} And based on your {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Very, yeah okay, very occasionally.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: But I do use the I do use the display of the time quite often, but {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah but it can be on the display in in a corner all the time on the remote.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah that's okay, that's true. Okay, so no time button {gap}. Okay.Project Manager: No time on {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: And uh do we need to include anything about the speech recognition and the speech commands, orIndustrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: I think {disfmarker}User Interface: I I thin I think it will not take lots of place, we just need a microphone and the software, so, and it sh and it will be a little bit new and interesting, so people may be attracted to buy this stuff and it's not very difficult to uh put a software inside the the electronic device and put a microphone. It doesn't take that much place and also that much {disfmarker} It doesn't cost that much.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah but we we should be careful about the battery life, then. If we use the speech recognition.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So maybe we think {disfmarker} we can think more about that, and discuss that maybe last time {disfmarker} next time.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: And uh yeah, now the meeting room is busy. Somebody booked the meeting room just for {disfmarker} at one P_M_, and so we should leave. Uh. So, um. So now we are going for for a small lunch. It's uh funded by the company. And uh after we have uh thirteen minutes to to do indevel individual works. And uh I will do the minutes. And uh you are going to work on your individual works. And uh you will receive as usual your specific instruction and so on.Marketing: Okay,Project Manager: Thank you everybody.Marketing: cool. OkayUser Interface: Thanks.Marketing: Thank you. Project Manager: {vocalsound} So um nice to see you again. Uh. So, uh. Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes. Uh so we will see our three presentations. Um we will start with the uh Manager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements, whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device.Marketing: Okay, can I have the laptop over here, orProject Manager: Yep. Oh, I don't think so. I think you have to come here.Marketing: Okay. Have to get up. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno. I think it should stay.Marketing: Excuse me.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: Should stay in the square here. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Oh, maybe.Marketing: Okay, so basically I'm gonna present some findings of a study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control.Project Manager: Oh, you can put it here. Oh that's okay, it's jusMarketing: Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducted a an experiment with a hundred test subjects. Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to, you know, um play with remote controls, and also to complete, after they'd done that, to complete a questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feel of of most remote controls that are currently on the market. Um they, you know, seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on, found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used in the past were ugly. Completely ugly. Um they they didn't

Summarize the discussion about the conclusion of experiments and questionnaire for user requirement.

Users didn't like the look and feel of most remote controls currently on the market. And most users only used ten percent of buttons on the remote control. Channel selection button was the most commonly used button, followed by the volume button. Young users might prefer to have high technology features such as LCD display or speech recognition function on the remote control.

now,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high. So, I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but you know, when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe. Uh. Components to use, I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit. It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec YeahMarketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit, or are we planning to construct our own circuit boardIndustrial Designer: No no no no no. This we this we buy I think, because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves.Marketing: Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition. This I prefer that we should make ourselves.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it. Same thing. It's fairly expensive to use these circuits. So, speech recognition {disfmarker} well, L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_, less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: But the speech recognition we have to compare whether the price and the {disfmarker} what does it offer, you know.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So what do you think would be the price, it would be out of rangeIndustrial Designer: Yeah, I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Or it would be maybe feasibleIndustrial Designer: Oh. I was not thinking too much about the price. But if we use the L_C_D_ uh even the radio frequency communication with the T_V_ set and the backlight and uh related things like the photo diodes and stuff, it should be okay. If we decide to use the speech recognition, then we probably could struggle but we'll see afterwards.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: It depends of you if if the M_E_ or U_I_D_,Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: I'm sorry about the names, I don't really know, uh want to have it like in metal or in plastic, these things, it it depends on you not {disfmarker} Because the the the electronic device's price is not not so big in comparison to to the overall shape and stuff like that, so.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We will discuss it afterwards. Oh, this is nothing. This is just my notes on what to use. And uh my personal preference is yes, I would like also preferably to use R_W_ circuit, but from the point of view uh of the design and price, I would stick to I_R_s. That's my opinion. Uh I mean if infra-red uh circuit not not the radio frequency.Project Manager: Why Because it's simplerIndustrial Designer: Because because the the range where you can use it is fair.Project Manager: Yeah. Mm.Industrial Designer: It's okay I think. And the price is fairly cheap for this.Project Manager: Okay. It's a a price matter.Industrial Designer: Well, depends.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Jus just the match the operating behaviour of the user, that is, you know, the the way users use remote controls when they're watching T_V_. Um, that the layout of the remote controls didn't match they way that they used it. Um and thirdly they say that w half of the users that we um tested said that they only used ten percent of the buttons that uh are on remote controls. Um so we collect we also some collected some usage statistics uh based on how these test subjects were using their remote control. And from this we basically came up with the figure that the channel buttons, the channel selection buttons are the most {disfmarker} by far the most used buttons on the remote control. Um and you can see they're used a hundred and sixty eight times per hour on average, um, while the user's watching T_V_.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um the closest button that was used, well the cl the button that was used that was closest to the channel button was the teletext button, um which was used fourteen times per hour, followed by the volume button, which was four times per hour, um, all the other, all the other um buttons, such as ch um audio and picture selection um configuration buttons and things were used, you know, l approx well less than or equal to one times per hour. Um we also asked users um which buttons had the most importance to them, you know, which which buttons they felt were the most important buttons on on the remote control. And basically they came {disfmarker} they said the channel, volume, and power buttons had the highest relevance to users, um note that only power was very infrequently used, it only had a b a a the T_V_,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: well {disfmarker} And based on your {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Very, yeah okay, very occasionally.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: But I do use the I do use the display of the time quite often, but {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Yeah but it can be on the display in in a corner all the time on the remote.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah that's okay, that's true. Okay, so no time button {gap}. Okay.Project Manager: No time on {gap}.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: And uh do we need to include anything about the speech recognition and the speech commands, orIndustrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: I think {disfmarker}User Interface: I I thin I think it will not take lots of place, we just need a microphone and the software, so, and it sh and it will be a little bit new and interesting, so people may be attracted to buy this stuff and it's not very difficult to uh put a software inside the the electronic device and put a microphone. It doesn't take that much place and also that much {disfmarker} It doesn't cost that much.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah but we we should be careful about the battery life, then. If we use the speech recognition.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So maybe we think {disfmarker} we can think more about that, and discuss that maybe last time {disfmarker} next time.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: And uh yeah, now the meeting room is busy. Somebody booked the meeting room just for {disfmarker} at one P_M_, and so we should leave. Uh. So, um. So now we are going for for a small lunch. It's uh funded by the company. And uh after we have uh thirteen minutes to to do indevel individual works. And uh I will do the minutes. And uh you are going to work on your individual works. And uh you will receive as usual your specific instruction and so on.Marketing: Okay,Project Manager: Thank you everybody.Marketing: cool. OkayUser Interface: Thanks.Marketing: Thank you. price.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: Otherwise I don't care what I put there because it's the chip which I buy or which we buy.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: So I I I think it's o y o {vocalsound}.Marketing: What how much more expensive Are we talking three times more expensiveProject Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Well, three to three to five.Marketing: Or ten times more expensive Or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: N not ten times,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: but it depends what what we {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah yeah. That's still a lot. I think it's it's probably not worth spending the extra money,Project Manager: Hmm. Yeah.Marketing: because I mean all the other remote controls on the market have infra-red, so people don't expect anything other than infra-red.Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: So it's not worth spending the extra money.Project Manager: Well I {gap}, oh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Th they are used to use it when they can see the T_V_ so, I don't know.Project Manager: On the other side, we want to have something new.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: You know, whereMarketing: Yeah.Project Manager: we want to to have something new and So we I think we should still thinking about it. But maybe {gap}.Marketing: But I think, based on my usability studies I th I feel that users are {disfmarker} prioritise the look and the feel and the trendiness above, you know, the difference between infra-red or radio waves.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So I think we're better off spending money in the usability phase.Industrial Designer: {gap} You the user interface, and management man, uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: Uh okay, that's it for me.Project Manager: Okay, thank you Peter.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: So um I have to inform you I receive an email from the management bon board today and they have new requirements for

Summarize the discussion about the new requirement and basic functions.

New requirement included avoiding the teletext, focusing on remote control only for TV and keeping the product recognizable. All the group members agreed. They also decided to start with basic functions and then move on to the more advanced feature. Then they concluded that LCD display, channel button and volume button were necessary.

now,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: but the prices I read are high. So, I know that uh the user interface people and these speak about radio frequency waves because you can you can uh you can make the T_V_ do what you want even if you are in the bathroom or so on,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: but you know, when you are not close to the T_V_ you probably won't need to to change the program and so on and so I am I am voting for s to stick to the um infra-red control instead of R_W_ but we will discuss it later maybe. Uh. Components to use, I'm not exactly sure what I will use for the design of the circuit. It depends uh on whether we will use the L_C_D_ and mainly the speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: because the speech rec YeahMarketing: Are we um are we planning to take an off the shelf an O_E_M_ component for the radio wave circuit, or are we planning to construct our own circuit boardIndustrial Designer: No no no no no. This we this we buy I think, because it's rather cheap nowadays and it's not worth to construct ourselves.Marketing: Okay s So we just buy a circuit board and {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Exactly.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But I'm not sure about the circuit which is responsible for speech recognition. This I prefer that we should make ourselves.Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: But it depends whether we take a decision to use it. Same thing. It's fairly expensive to use these circuits. So, speech recognition {disfmarker} well, L_C_D_ it's okay because it's common nowadays to use L_C_D_,Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so I agree on using any kind of L_C_D_, less buttons good for me as a as a designer of the circuit.Project Manager: Designer: You mean like hierarchical structure.Project Manager: And inside this this thing you can move, maybe switch.User Interface: Mm-hmm. Okay. Like categorising channels.Project Manager: If you want to see a movie you click on the movie button so you have all the movie channels and after you've you plus plus plus.Industrial Designer: Okay, so sUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Oh sorry.Project Manager: I It just an idea.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: I don't know what you think about that but.Industrial Designer: So it requires the use of L_C_D_ probably, to to tell you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, probably, yeah, yeah.Marketing: To have some feedback. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so I'll make a note on L_C_D_.Marketing: We could maybe also c um incorporate Petre's idea of the um slider for the volume, with the channel.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we c you could quickly just {vocalsound} {vocalsound} through many channels.Industrial Designer: Yeah. Like roller for the {disfmarker} Yeah. Okay.Marketing: {vocalsound} For the channels, perhaps.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Anything elseMarketing: So we've got channel and volume. Um.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So we are still s speaking about the common devicesUser Interface: {gap}Industrial Designer: or we are inviting the new oneMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: I think basically the core functions we want, and then more advanced ones.Project Manager: What about the settings of the T_V_ Because it's button we don't use very often, but it's {disfmarker} we need it anyway. So {disfmarker}User Interface: So uh we don't have any uh we don't have uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: we should just design the remote control and we sh we don't have any access to the to the T_V_ design or we can change some design. Because one solution for this um uh uh ch changing channels is to see a summary of all match the operating behaviour of the user, that is, you know, the the way users use remote controls when they're watching T_V_. Um, that the layout of the remote controls didn't match they way that they used it. Um and thirdly they say that w half of the users that we um tested said that they only used ten percent of the buttons that uh are on remote controls. Um so we collect we also some collected some usage statistics uh based on how these test subjects were using their remote control. And from this we basically came up with the figure that the channel buttons, the channel selection buttons are the most {disfmarker} by far the most used buttons on the remote control. Um and you can see they're used a hundred and sixty eight times per hour on average, um, while the user's watching T_V_.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Um the closest button that was used, well the cl the button that was used that was closest to the channel button was the teletext button, um which was used fourteen times per hour, followed by the volume button, which was four times per hour, um, all the other, all the other um buttons, such as ch um audio and picture selection um configuration buttons and things were used, you know, l approx well less than or equal to one times per hour. Um we also asked users um which buttons had the most importance to them, you know, which which buttons they felt were the most important buttons on on the remote control. And basically they came {disfmarker} they said the channel, volume, and power buttons had the highest relevance to users, um note that only power was very infrequently used, it only had a b a a Project Manager: {vocalsound} So um nice to see you again. Uh. So, uh. Tod uh for this meeting I will take the notes and do the minutes. Uh so we will see our three presentations. Um we will start with the uh Manager Expert wi who will talk about uh user re requirements, whats user needs and what it desire for this devi device.Marketing: Okay, can I have the laptop over here, orProject Manager: Yep. Oh, I don't think so. I think you have to come here.Marketing: Okay. Have to get up. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno. I think it should stay.Marketing: Excuse me.Industrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: Should stay in the square here. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Oh, maybe.Marketing: Okay, so basically I'm gonna present some findings of a study we conducted uh into uh what users want in this remote control.Project Manager: Oh, you can put it here. Oh that's okay, it's jusMarketing: Um so first of all we {disfmarker} what we did is we um conducted a an experiment with a hundred test subjects. Um we put them in a in our um usability laboratory and got them to, you know, um play with remote controls, and also to complete, after they'd done that, to complete a questionnaire uh to tell us what they like and what they don't like in remote controls. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} So basically um the major things we found out was that um basically users don't like the look and feel of of most remote controls that are currently on the market. Um they, you know, seventy five percent of the people we we uh did the experiments on, found that rem remote the remote controls that they'd used in the past were ugly. Completely ugly. Um they they didn't {vocalsound} pe um people said that the power button was v a very relevant button.Project Manager: Oh okay, yeah.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Um, you know, it was nine out of tenIndustrial Designer: Okay, so we we could p what we could probably do is to keep also to keep uh keep the L_C_D_ and all the buttons and stuff,Marketing: re relevance.Industrial Designer: we could make it like a opening opening style that if you open it you are {disfmarker} you just turn on the T_V_ and if you close it, it willProject Manager: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: turn off the T_V_.Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: If if you like this, {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. B Okay.Industrial Designer: Because, well {gap} {disfmarker} it's maybe question for you tMarketing: I think we need to concentrate on the, you know, the major usage of the th of the control,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: which is you sit down, you turn on your T_V_, you change channels, you change the volume, you turn the T_V_ off.Project Manager: Yeah. So s yeah.Marketing: Um and all the other f functionality isIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, they can yeah they can be hide somewhere by a cover or something like this.Marketing: not used very often.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Like covering cu.Project Manager: On the back, or {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah. I mean like the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, like mobile phone covering.Industrial Designer: Yeah but since we have the L_C_D_, we didn't need too much button too many buttons. Um, okay, just um the decision of the power button.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Should we make it a button, or some some something which would be {disfmarker}Project Manager: For whatIndustrial Designer: Uh power button.Marketing: I think a button.User Interface: A button is better.Project Manager: Ah oh yeah, yeah.Marketing: I think it should be a buIndustrial

Summarize the whole meeting.

This meeting included three presentations from marketing, user interface and industrial design and discussion about core function of remote control. At first, marketing introduced the conclusion of experiment and questionnaire. Users thought remote controls were ugly and only used a few buttons. Since young users might prefer high technology features like speech recognition. After that, the user interface introduced how electric circuits, keyboard and transmitter reacted together. And group members discussed solutions of wave interference. Then industrial designer talked about working design and how LCD display or speech recognition might influence the design of circuits. And whether adding these functions would make the price out of range was discussed. After discussing new requirements for remote control from management, the group members started with core and basic functions, such as necessary buttons. Finally, they mentioned something about speech recognition and speech commands and their influence on battery life.

Yeah.Professor D: Well, but it was {comment} an MSG - like thing, but it wasn't MSG, right Uh, you {disfmarker} y I think in some case you got some little improvement, but it was, you know, sort of a small improvement, and it was a {disfmarker} a big added complication, so you dropped it. But, um, that was just sort of one try, right You just took one filter, threw it there,PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: right And it seems to me that, um, if that is an important idea, which, you know, might be, that one could work at it for a while, as you're saying.PhD A: Hmm.Professor D: And, uh Uh, and you had, you know, you had the multi - band things also, and, you know, there was issue of that.PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: Um, Barry's going to be, uh, continuing working on multi - band things as well.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor D: We were just talking about, um, {vocalsound} some, uh, some work that we're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the, uh {pause} uh, learning articulatory feature in {disfmarker} I think, in the case of his paper {disfmarker} with sonorance based on, uh, multi - band information where you have a {disfmarker} a combination of gradient learning an and, uh, EM.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: Um, and {pause} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um, so, I think that, you know, this is a, uh {disfmarker} this is a neat data set. Um, and then, uh, as we mentioned before, we also have the {disfmarker} the new, uh, digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So, there's a lot of things to work with. Um and, uh what I like about it, in a way, is that, uh, the results three percent, or something, in development set.PhD C: Oh, wow.Professor D: So {disfmarker} so, you know, sort of everybody is doing things between, well, roughly a third of the errors, and half the errors being eliminated, {vocalsound} uh, and varying on different test sets and so forth.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor D: So I think Um {pause} It's probably a good time to look at what's really going on and seeing if there's a {disfmarker} there's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up the amount of, uh, resources used, cuz that's {disfmarker} that's critical for this {disfmarker} this test.PhD C: Do we know anything about {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who's was it that had the lowest on the dev setProfessor D: Um, uh, the, uh, the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of {disfmarker} of, uh, French Telecom and Alcatel. And, um they {disfmarker} they differed in some respects, but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System, {vocalsound} uh, which is the biggest difference, I think. But {disfmarker} but there're {disfmarker} there're {disfmarker} there're some other differences, too. Uh, and {disfmarker} and, uh, they both did very well,PhD C: Uh - huh.Professor D: you know So, {vocalsound} um, my impression is they also did very well on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} the, uh, evaluation set, but, um, I {disfmarker} I we haven't seen {disfmarker} you've - you haven't seen any final results for thatPhD C: And they used {disfmarker} the main thing that {disfmarker} that they used was spectral subtractionProfessor D: yeah.PhD C: OrProfessor D: There is a couple pieces to it. There's a spectral subtraction style piece {disfmarker} it was basically, you know, Wiener from other languages.PhD C: Yeah.PhD A: It's not so easy to find.PhD C: Right.PhD A: But {pause} that would be something interesting t to {disfmarker} to see.PhD C: Yeah, yeah.Professor D: Yeah. Also, uh, {vocalsound} I mean, there was just the whole notion of having multiple nets that were trained on different data. So one form of different data was {disfmarker} is from different languages, but the other Well, i in fact, uh, m in those experiments it wasn't so much combining multiple nets, it was a single net that had differentPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: So, first thing is would it be better if they were multiple nets, for some reason Second thing is, never mind the different languages, just having acoustic conditions rather than training them all up in one, would it be helpful to have different ones So, um That was a question that was kind of raised by Mike Shire's thesis, and on {disfmarker} in that case in terms of reverberation. Right That {disfmarker} that sometimes it might be better to do that. But, um, {vocalsound} I don't think we know for sure. So, um Right. So, next week, we, uh, won't meet because you'll be in Europe. Whe - when are you two getting backPhD E: Um, I'mPhD A: You on Friday or S on Saturday or {pause}PhD E: SundayPhD A: S oh yeah, Sunday, yeah.PhD E: because it's {disfmarker} it's less expensive, the price {disfmarker} the price the ticket.PhD C:Professor D: Yeah, that's right. You've gotta S have a Saturday overnight, rightPhD A: I'll be back on Tuesday.Professor D: Tuesday.PhD C: Where {disfmarker} where's the meetingProfessor D: Uh, Amsterdam, I think, yeahPhD A: Yeah, Amsterdam.PhD C: Uh - huh.Professor D: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Um {pause} So, we'll skip next week, and we'll meet two weeks from now. And, uh, I guess the main topic will be, uh, you telling us what happened.PhD A: Yeah.PhD E: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, so Yeah, well, if we don't have an anything else to discuss, we should, uh, turn off the machine and then say the real nasty things.PhD C: Should we do digits firstPhD A: Yeah.Grad B: Oh, yeah, digits.Professor D: Oh yeah, digits! Yeah. Good point. Yeah, good thinking. Why don't you go ahead.PhD C: OK. OK. Professor D: OK. So, uh You can fill those out, uh {pause} after, actually, so So, I got, uh {pause} these results from, uh, Stephane. Also, um, I think that, uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today, about other results. I think s that, uh, there were some other very good results that we're gonna wanna compare to. But, {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places, yeah.PhD A: I I'm sorry I didn'tProfessor D: Um, I got this from youPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: other than the {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one.PhD A: Oh yeah.Professor D: So {pause} um, I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is. But, uh, you know, so we'll see what it is comparatively later. But {pause} it looks like, umPhD A: M yeah.Professor D: You know most of the time, even {disfmarker} I mean even though it's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there's, um, uh Looks like out of the six cases, between the different kinds of, uh, matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases, there's basically, um, a couple where it stays about the same, uh, three where it gets better, and one where it gets worse.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, go ahead.PhD A: Y Actually, uh, um, for the Danish, there's still some kind of mystery because, um, um, when we use the straight features, we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one, I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight, we have eightPhD E: Eighty - nine forty - four.PhD A: yeah. Uh, so, uh, that's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh, and Sunil is working on {disfmarker} on trying to {disfmarker} to check everything.Professor D: Oh, and {disfmarker} and we have a little time on that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} actually soPhD A: HmmProfessor D: We have a little bit of time on that, actually.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: We have a day or so, so When {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you folks leavePhD A: Uh, Sunday.Professor D: Sunday So So, uh Yeah, until Saturday midnight, or something, we have W we {disfmarker} we have time, yeah. Well, that would be good. That'd be good.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Yeah. Uh, and, you know, i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also, for sure, email Hynek because Hynek will be over there {vocalsound} telling people {vocalsound} what we did, so he should know.PhD A: Mmm. Yeah.Professor D: Good, OK. So, um So, we'll {disfmarker} we'll hold off on that a little bit. I mean, even with these results as they are, it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's really not that bad. But {disfmarker} but, uh, um And it looks like the overall result as they are now, even without, you know, any {disfmarker} any bugs being fixed is that, uh, on the {disfmarker} the other tasks, we had this average of, uh, forty uh {disfmarker} nine percent, or so, improvement. And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish, and somewhat worse than that on the German, but I mean, it sounds like, uh, one way or another, the methods that we're doing can reduce the error rate from {disfmarker} from mel ceptrum {pause} down by, you know {pause} a fourth of them to, uh,

Summarize the discussion on the performance of the deployed model

The deployed model generally decreased error rates, but the extent to which it did so varied based on the language as well as where it was deployed. They learned that similar projects experienced the same challenges. Still, the model was not efficient and likely used too much CPU and memory for the benefit it provided.

Yeah.Professor D: Well, but it was {comment} an MSG - like thing, but it wasn't MSG, right Uh, you {disfmarker} y I think in some case you got some little improvement, but it was, you know, sort of a small improvement, and it was a {disfmarker} a big added complication, so you dropped it. But, um, that was just sort of one try, right You just took one filter, threw it there,PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: right And it seems to me that, um, if that is an important idea, which, you know, might be, that one could work at it for a while, as you're saying.PhD A: Hmm.Professor D: And, uh Uh, and you had, you know, you had the multi - band things also, and, you know, there was issue of that.PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: Um, Barry's going to be, uh, continuing working on multi - band things as well.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor D: We were just talking about, um, {vocalsound} some, uh, some work that we're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the, uh {pause} uh, learning articulatory feature in {disfmarker} I think, in the case of his paper {disfmarker} with sonorance based on, uh, multi - band information where you have a {disfmarker} a combination of gradient learning an and, uh, EM.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: Um, and {pause} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um, so, I think that, you know, this is a, uh {disfmarker} this is a neat data set. Um, and then, uh, as we mentioned before, we also have the {disfmarker} the new, uh, digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So, there's a lot of things to work with. Um and, uh what I like about it, in a way, is that, uh, the results Professor D: OK. So, uh You can fill those out, uh {pause} after, actually, so So, I got, uh {pause} these results from, uh, Stephane. Also, um, I think that, uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today, about other results. I think s that, uh, there were some other very good results that we're gonna wanna compare to. But, {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places, yeah.PhD A: I I'm sorry I didn'tProfessor D: Um, I got this from youPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: other than the {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one.PhD A: Oh yeah.Professor D: So {pause} um, I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is. But, uh, you know, so we'll see what it is comparatively later. But {pause} it looks like, umPhD A: M yeah.Professor D: You know most of the time, even {disfmarker} I mean even though it's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there's, um, uh Looks like out of the six cases, between the different kinds of, uh, matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases, there's basically, um, a couple where it stays about the same, uh, three where it gets better, and one where it gets worse.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, go ahead.PhD A: Y Actually, uh, um, for the Danish, there's still some kind of mystery because, um, um, when we use the straight features, we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one, I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight, we have eightPhD E: Eighty - nine forty - four.PhD A: yeah. Uh, so, uh, that's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh, and Sunil is working on {disfmarker} on trying to {disfmarker} to check everything.Professor D: Oh, and {disfmarker} and we have a little time on that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} actually soPhD A: HmmProfessor D: We have a little bit of time on that, actually.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: We have a day or so, so When {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you folks leavePhD A: Uh, Sunday.Professor D: Sunday So So, uh Yeah, until Saturday midnight, or something, we have W we {disfmarker} we have time, yeah. Well, that would be good. That'd be good.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Yeah. Uh, and, you know, i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also, for sure, email Hynek because Hynek will be over there {vocalsound} telling people {vocalsound} what we did, so he should know.PhD A: Mmm. Yeah.Professor D: Good, OK. So, um So, we'll {disfmarker} we'll hold off on that a little bit. I mean, even with these results as they are, it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's really not that bad. But {disfmarker} but, uh, um And it looks like the overall result as they are now, even without, you know, any {disfmarker} any bugs being fixed is that, uh, on the {disfmarker} the other tasks, we had this average of, uh, forty uh {disfmarker} nine percent, or so, improvement. And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish, and somewhat worse than that on the German, but I mean, it sounds like, uh, one way or another, the methods that we're doing can reduce the error rate from {disfmarker} from mel ceptrum {pause} down by, you know {pause} a fourth of them to, uh, are still so terrible. Uh {pause} {vocalsound} Uh {pause} {vocalsound} I mean, they're much better than they were, you know. We're talking about thirty to sixty percent, uh, error rate reduction. That's {disfmarker} that's really great stuff to {disfmarker} to do that in relatively short time. But even after that it's still, you know, so poor that {disfmarker} that, uh, no one could really use it. So, um I think that's great that {disfmarker} because {disfmarker} and y also because again, it's not something {disfmarker} sometimes we've gotten terrible results by taking some data, and artificially, you know, convolving it with some room response, or something {disfmarker} we take a very {disfmarker} Uh, at one point, uh, Brian and I went downstairs into the {disfmarker} the basement where it was {disfmarker} it was in a hallway where it was very reverberant and we {disfmarker} we made some recordings there. And then we {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we, uh {disfmarker} uh, made a simulation of the {disfmarker} of the room acoustics there and {disfmarker} and applied it to other things,PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: and uh But it was all pretty artificial, and {disfmarker} and, you know, how often would you really try to have your most crucial conversations in this very reverberant hallway Um {pause} So, uh {pause} This is what's nice about the Aurora data and the data here, is that {disfmarker} is that it's sort of a realistic room situation {pause} uh, acoustics {disfmarker} acoustic situation, both terms in noise and reflections, and so on and n n And, uh, uh, with something that's still relatively realistic, it's still very very hard to do very well. So Yeah.PhD A: Yeah, so d well Actually, this is {disfmarker} tha that's why we {disfmarker} well, it's a different kind of data. a half of them. Somewhere in there, depending on the {pause} exact case. So So that's good. I mean, I think that, uh, one of the things that Hynek was talking about was understanding what was in the other really good proposals and {disfmarker} and trying to see if what should ultimately be proposed is some, uh, combination of things. Um, if, uh {disfmarker} Cuz there's things that they are doing {pause} there that we certainly are not doing. And there's things that we're doing that {pause} they're not doing. And {disfmarker} and they all seem like good things.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: SoPhD E: Mmm, yeah.PhD C: How much {disfmarker} how much better was the best system than oursProfessor D: So Well, we don't know yet.PhD C: Mmm.Professor D: Uh, I mean, first place, there's still this thing to {disfmarker} to work out, and second place {disfmarker} second thing is that the only results that we have so far from before were really development set results.PhD C: Oh, OK.Professor D: So, I think in this community that's of interest. It's not like everything is being pinned on the evaluation set. But, um, for the development set, our best result was a little bit short of fifty percent. And the best result of any system was about fifty - four, where these numbers are the, uh, relative, uh, reduction in, uh, word error rate.PhD C: Oh, OK.Professor D: And, um, the other systems were, uh, somewhat lower than that. There was actually {disfmarker} there was much less of a huge range than there was in Aurora one. In Aurora one there were {disfmarker} there were systems that ba basically didn't improve things.PhD C: Hmm.Professor D: And here the {disfmarker} the worst system {pause} still reduced the error rate by thirty -

What was the range of errors in the models

The worst systems were still reducing errors between a third to half of the time. Though, there was a system in Aurora that did not do very well and the Alcatel systems seemed to do better.

Yeah.Professor D: Well, but it was {comment} an MSG - like thing, but it wasn't MSG, right Uh, you {disfmarker} y I think in some case you got some little improvement, but it was, you know, sort of a small improvement, and it was a {disfmarker} a big added complication, so you dropped it. But, um, that was just sort of one try, right You just took one filter, threw it there,PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: right And it seems to me that, um, if that is an important idea, which, you know, might be, that one could work at it for a while, as you're saying.PhD A: Hmm.Professor D: And, uh Uh, and you had, you know, you had the multi - band things also, and, you know, there was issue of that.PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: Um, Barry's going to be, uh, continuing working on multi - band things as well.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor D: We were just talking about, um, {vocalsound} some, uh, some work that we're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the, uh {pause} uh, learning articulatory feature in {disfmarker} I think, in the case of his paper {disfmarker} with sonorance based on, uh, multi - band information where you have a {disfmarker} a combination of gradient learning an and, uh, EM.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: Um, and {pause} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um, so, I think that, you know, this is a, uh {disfmarker} this is a neat data set. Um, and then, uh, as we mentioned before, we also have the {disfmarker} the new, uh, digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So, there's a lot of things to work with. Um and, uh what I like about it, in a way, is that, uh, the results Professor D: OK. So, uh You can fill those out, uh {pause} after, actually, so So, I got, uh {pause} these results from, uh, Stephane. Also, um, I think that, uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today, about other results. I think s that, uh, there were some other very good results that we're gonna wanna compare to. But, {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places, yeah.PhD A: I I'm sorry I didn'tProfessor D: Um, I got this from youPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: other than the {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one.PhD A: Oh yeah.Professor D: So {pause} um, I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is. But, uh, you know, so we'll see what it is comparatively later. But {pause} it looks like, umPhD A: M yeah.Professor D: You know most of the time, even {disfmarker} I mean even though it's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there's, um, uh Looks like out of the six cases, between the different kinds of, uh, matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases, there's basically, um, a couple where it stays about the same, uh, three where it gets better, and one where it gets worse.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, go ahead.PhD A: Y Actually, uh, um, for the Danish, there's still some kind of mystery because, um, um, when we use the straight features, we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one, I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight, we have eightPhD E: three percent, or something, in development set.PhD C: Oh, wow.Professor D: So {disfmarker} so, you know, sort of everybody is doing things between, well, roughly a third of the errors, and half the errors being eliminated, {vocalsound} uh, and varying on different test sets and so forth.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor D: So I think Um {pause} It's probably a good time to look at what's really going on and seeing if there's a {disfmarker} there's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up the amount of, uh, resources used, cuz that's {disfmarker} that's critical for this {disfmarker} this test.PhD C: Do we know anything about {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who's was it that had the lowest on the dev setProfessor D: Um, uh, the, uh, the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of {disfmarker} of, uh, French Telecom and Alcatel. And, um they {disfmarker} they differed in some respects, but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System, {vocalsound} uh, which is the biggest difference, I think. But {disfmarker} but there're {disfmarker} there're {disfmarker} there're some other differences, too. Uh, and {disfmarker} and, uh, they both did very well,PhD C: Uh - huh.Professor D: you know So, {vocalsound} um, my impression is they also did very well on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} the, uh, evaluation set, but, um, I {disfmarker} I we haven't seen {disfmarker} you've - you haven't seen any final results for thatPhD C: And they used {disfmarker} the main thing that {disfmarker} that they used was spectral subtractionProfessor D: yeah.PhD C: OrProfessor D: There is a couple pieces to it. There's a spectral subtraction style piece {disfmarker} it was basically, you know, Wiener Eighty - nine forty - four.PhD A: yeah. Uh, so, uh, that's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh, and Sunil is working on {disfmarker} on trying to {disfmarker} to check everything.Professor D: Oh, and {disfmarker} and we have a little time on that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} actually soPhD A: HmmProfessor D: We have a little bit of time on that, actually.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: We have a day or so, so When {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you folks leavePhD A: Uh, Sunday.Professor D: Sunday So So, uh Yeah, until Saturday midnight, or something, we have W we {disfmarker} we have time, yeah. Well, that would be good. That'd be good.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Yeah. Uh, and, you know, i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also, for sure, email Hynek because Hynek will be over there {vocalsound} telling people {vocalsound} what we did, so he should know.PhD A: Mmm. Yeah.Professor D: Good, OK. So, um So, we'll {disfmarker} we'll hold off on that a little bit. I mean, even with these results as they are, it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's really not that bad. But {disfmarker} but, uh, um And it looks like the overall result as they are now, even without, you know, any {disfmarker} any bugs being fixed is that, uh, on the {disfmarker} the other tasks, we had this average of, uh, forty uh {disfmarker} nine percent, or so, improvement. And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish, and somewhat worse than that on the German, but I mean, it sounds like, uh, one way or another, the methods that we're doing can reduce the error rate from {disfmarker} from mel ceptrum {pause} down by, you know {pause} a fourth of them to, uh, we think that {vocalsound} most of the errors are within phoneme classes, and so I think it could be interesting to {disfmarker} to see if it {disfmarker} I don't think it's still true when we add noise, and {vocalsound} so we have {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess the confusion ma the confusion matrices are very different when {disfmarker} when we have noise, and when it's clean speech. And probably, there is much more {pause} between classes errors for noisy speech.Professor D: Mm - hmm.PhD A: And {vocalsound} so, um Yeah, so perhaps we could have a {disfmarker} a large gain, eh, just by looking at improving the, uh, recognition, not of phonemes, but of phoneme classes, simply.Professor D: Mm - hmm.PhD A: And {vocalsound} which is a s a s a simpler problem, perhaps, but {disfmarker} which is perhaps important for noisy speech.Professor D: The other thing that strikes me, just looking at these numbers is, just taking the best cases, I mean, some of these, of course, even with all of our {disfmarker} our wonderful processing, still are horrible kinds of numbers. But just take the best case, the well - matched {pause} uh, German case after {disfmarker} er well - matched Danish after we {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: the kind of numbers we're getting are about eight or nine {pause} uh {pause} p percent {pause} error {pause} per digit.PhD A: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor D: This is obviously not usable,PhD A: No.Professor D: rightPhD A: Sure.Professor D: I mean, if you have ten digits for a phone number {comment} I mean, every now and then you'll get it right. I mean, it's {disfmarker} it's, uh, {vocalsound} um So, I mean, the other thing is that, uh {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} a and {disfmarker} and also,

What did the Professor think about Danish and German models

The professor explained that while the Danish model did not improve overall, the results were mixed over six cases. The team's models led to improvements, even without bug fixes, but they were better on the Danish than German.

Yeah.Professor D: Well, but it was {comment} an MSG - like thing, but it wasn't MSG, right Uh, you {disfmarker} y I think in some case you got some little improvement, but it was, you know, sort of a small improvement, and it was a {disfmarker} a big added complication, so you dropped it. But, um, that was just sort of one try, right You just took one filter, threw it there,PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: right And it seems to me that, um, if that is an important idea, which, you know, might be, that one could work at it for a while, as you're saying.PhD A: Hmm.Professor D: And, uh Uh, and you had, you know, you had the multi - band things also, and, you know, there was issue of that.PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: Um, Barry's going to be, uh, continuing working on multi - band things as well.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor D: We were just talking about, um, {vocalsound} some, uh, some work that we're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the, uh {pause} uh, learning articulatory feature in {disfmarker} I think, in the case of his paper {disfmarker} with sonorance based on, uh, multi - band information where you have a {disfmarker} a combination of gradient learning an and, uh, EM.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: Um, and {pause} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um, so, I think that, you know, this is a, uh {disfmarker} this is a neat data set. Um, and then, uh, as we mentioned before, we also have the {disfmarker} the new, uh, digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So, there's a lot of things to work with. Um and, uh what I like about it, in a way, is that, uh, the results Professor D: OK. So, uh You can fill those out, uh {pause} after, actually, so So, I got, uh {pause} these results from, uh, Stephane. Also, um, I think that, uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today, about other results. I think s that, uh, there were some other very good results that we're gonna wanna compare to. But, {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places, yeah.PhD A: I I'm sorry I didn'tProfessor D: Um, I got this from youPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: other than the {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one.PhD A: Oh yeah.Professor D: So {pause} um, I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is. But, uh, you know, so we'll see what it is comparatively later. But {pause} it looks like, umPhD A: M yeah.Professor D: You know most of the time, even {disfmarker} I mean even though it's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there's, um, uh Looks like out of the six cases, between the different kinds of, uh, matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases, there's basically, um, a couple where it stays about the same, uh, three where it gets better, and one where it gets worse.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, go ahead.PhD A: Y Actually, uh, um, for the Danish, there's still some kind of mystery because, um, um, when we use the straight features, we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one, I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight, we have eightPhD E: three percent, or something, in development set.PhD C: Oh, wow.Professor D: So {disfmarker} so, you know, sort of everybody is doing things between, well, roughly a third of the errors, and half the errors being eliminated, {vocalsound} uh, and varying on different test sets and so forth.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor D: So I think Um {pause} It's probably a good time to look at what's really going on and seeing if there's a {disfmarker} there's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up the amount of, uh, resources used, cuz that's {disfmarker} that's critical for this {disfmarker} this test.PhD C: Do we know anything about {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who's was it that had the lowest on the dev setProfessor D: Um, uh, the, uh, the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of {disfmarker} of, uh, French Telecom and Alcatel. And, um they {disfmarker} they differed in some respects, but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System, {vocalsound} uh, which is the biggest difference, I think. But {disfmarker} but there're {disfmarker} there're {disfmarker} there're some other differences, too. Uh, and {disfmarker} and, uh, they both did very well,PhD C: Uh - huh.Professor D: you know So, {vocalsound} um, my impression is they also did very well on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} the, uh, evaluation set, but, um, I {disfmarker} I we haven't seen {disfmarker} you've - you haven't seen any final results for thatPhD C: And they used {disfmarker} the main thing that {disfmarker} that they used was spectral subtractionProfessor D: yeah.PhD C: OrProfessor D: There is a couple pieces to it. There's a spectral subtraction style piece {disfmarker} it was basically, you know, Wiener from other languages.PhD C: Yeah.PhD A: It's not so easy to find.PhD C: Right.PhD A: But {pause} that would be something interesting t to {disfmarker} to see.PhD C: Yeah, yeah.Professor D: Yeah. Also, uh, {vocalsound} I mean, there was just the whole notion of having multiple nets that were trained on different data. So one form of different data was {disfmarker} is from different languages, but the other Well, i in fact, uh, m in those experiments it wasn't so much combining multiple nets, it was a single net that had differentPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: So, first thing is would it be better if they were multiple nets, for some reason Second thing is, never mind the different languages, just having acoustic conditions rather than training them all up in one, would it be helpful to have different ones So, um That was a question that was kind of raised by Mike Shire's thesis, and on {disfmarker} in that case in terms of reverberation. Right That {disfmarker} that sometimes it might be better to do that. But, um, {vocalsound} I don't think we know for sure. So, um Right. So, next week, we, uh, won't meet because you'll be in Europe. Whe - when are you two getting backPhD E: Um, I'mPhD A: You on Friday or S on Saturday or {pause}PhD E: SundayPhD A: S oh yeah, Sunday, yeah.PhD E: because it's {disfmarker} it's less expensive, the price {disfmarker} the price the ticket.PhD C:Professor D: Yeah, that's right. You've gotta S have a Saturday overnight, rightPhD A: I'll be back on Tuesday.Professor D: Tuesday.PhD C: Where {disfmarker} where's the meetingProfessor D: Uh, Amsterdam, I think, yeahPhD A: Yeah, Amsterdam.PhD C: Uh - huh.Professor D: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Um {pause} So, we'll skip next week, and we'll meet two weeks from now. And, uh, I guess the main topic will be, uh, you telling us what happened.PhD A: Yeah.PhD E: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, so Yeah, well, if we don't have an anything else to discuss, we should, uh, turn off the machine and then say the real nasty things.PhD C: Should we do digits firstPhD A: Yeah.Grad B: Oh, yeah, digits.Professor D: Oh yeah, digits! Yeah. Good point. Yeah, good thinking. Why don't you go ahead.PhD C: OK. OK. We're not {disfmarker} we're not used to work with this kind of data. That's why we should have a loo more closer look at what's going on.Professor D: Yeah.PhD E: Mm - hmm.PhD A: Um Yeah. So this would be the first thing, and then, of course, try to {disfmarker} well, {vocalsound} kind of debug what was wrong, eh, when we do Aurora test on the MSG {pause} particularly, and on the multi - band.Professor D: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.PhD A: UhProfessor D: Yeah. Yeah. No, I {disfmarker} I think there's lots of {disfmarker} lots of good things to do with this. So Um So let's {disfmarker} I guess {pause} You were gonna say something else Oh, OK. What do you thinkPhD C: AboutProfessor D: AnythingPhD C: About other experiments Uh, now, I'm interested in, um, uh {pause} looking at the experiments where you use, um {pause} uh, data from multiple languages to train the neural net. And I don't know how far, or if you guys even had a chance to try that, but {pause} that would be some it'd be interesting to me.PhD A: Yeah, butProfessor D: S bPhD A: Again, it's the kind of {disfmarker} of thing that, uh, we were thin thinking {disfmarker} thinking that it would work, but it didn't work. And, eh, so there is kind of {disfmarker} of {pause} not a bug, but something wrong in what we are doing, perhaps.Professor D: Yeah.PhD C: Right. Right.PhD A: Uh, something wrong, perhaps in the {disfmarker} just in the {disfmarker} the fact that the labels are {disfmarker}PhD C: Right.PhD A: wellPhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD A: What worked best is the hand - labeled data.PhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD A: Um Uh, so, yeah. I don't know if we can get some hand - labeled data

Summarize discussion on the pragmatic overview of the project

The team gathered some ideas on how they could further improve the model, perhaps by focusing more so on MSG and multi-band. The professor iterated that the task was pretty hard, and their model was still not good enough for a real system. The team was generally excited about the Aurora data, as it was more realistic, and about further pursuing the task.

Yeah.Professor D: Well, but it was {comment} an MSG - like thing, but it wasn't MSG, right Uh, you {disfmarker} y I think in some case you got some little improvement, but it was, you know, sort of a small improvement, and it was a {disfmarker} a big added complication, so you dropped it. But, um, that was just sort of one try, right You just took one filter, threw it there,PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: right And it seems to me that, um, if that is an important idea, which, you know, might be, that one could work at it for a while, as you're saying.PhD A: Hmm.Professor D: And, uh Uh, and you had, you know, you had the multi - band things also, and, you know, there was issue of that.PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: Um, Barry's going to be, uh, continuing working on multi - band things as well.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor D: We were just talking about, um, {vocalsound} some, uh, some work that we're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the, uh {pause} uh, learning articulatory feature in {disfmarker} I think, in the case of his paper {disfmarker} with sonorance based on, uh, multi - band information where you have a {disfmarker} a combination of gradient learning an and, uh, EM.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: Um, and {pause} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um, so, I think that, you know, this is a, uh {disfmarker} this is a neat data set. Um, and then, uh, as we mentioned before, we also have the {disfmarker} the new, uh, digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So, there's a lot of things to work with. Um and, uh what I like about it, in a way, is that, uh, the results Professor D: OK. So, uh You can fill those out, uh {pause} after, actually, so So, I got, uh {pause} these results from, uh, Stephane. Also, um, I think that, uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today, about other results. I think s that, uh, there were some other very good results that we're gonna wanna compare to. But, {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places, yeah.PhD A: I I'm sorry I didn'tProfessor D: Um, I got this from youPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: other than the {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one.PhD A: Oh yeah.Professor D: So {pause} um, I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is. But, uh, you know, so we'll see what it is comparatively later. But {pause} it looks like, umPhD A: M yeah.Professor D: You know most of the time, even {disfmarker} I mean even though it's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there's, um, uh Looks like out of the six cases, between the different kinds of, uh, matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases, there's basically, um, a couple where it stays about the same, uh, three where it gets better, and one where it gets worse.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, go ahead.PhD A: Y Actually, uh, um, for the Danish, there's still some kind of mystery because, um, um, when we use the straight features, we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one, I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight, we have eightPhD E: Eighty - nine forty - four.PhD A: yeah. Uh, so, uh, that's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh, and Sunil is working on {disfmarker} on trying to {disfmarker} to check everything.Professor D: Oh, and {disfmarker} and we have a little time on that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} actually soPhD A: HmmProfessor D: We have a little bit of time on that, actually.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: We have a day or so, so When {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you folks leavePhD A: Uh, Sunday.Professor D: Sunday So So, uh Yeah, until Saturday midnight, or something, we have W we {disfmarker} we have time, yeah. Well, that would be good. That'd be good.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Yeah. Uh, and, you know, i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also, for sure, email Hynek because Hynek will be over there {vocalsound} telling people {vocalsound} what we did, so he should know.PhD A: Mmm. Yeah.Professor D: Good, OK. So, um So, we'll {disfmarker} we'll hold off on that a little bit. I mean, even with these results as they are, it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's really not that bad. But {disfmarker} but, uh, um And it looks like the overall result as they are now, even without, you know, any {disfmarker} any bugs being fixed is that, uh, on the {disfmarker} the other tasks, we had this average of, uh, forty uh {disfmarker} nine percent, or so, improvement. And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish, and somewhat worse than that on the German, but I mean, it sounds like, uh, one way or another, the methods that we're doing can reduce the error rate from {disfmarker} from mel ceptrum {pause} down by, you know {pause} a fourth of them to, uh, are still so terrible. Uh {pause} {vocalsound} Uh {pause} {vocalsound} I mean, they're much better than they were, you know. We're talking about thirty to sixty percent, uh, error rate reduction. That's {disfmarker} that's really great stuff to {disfmarker} to do that in relatively short time. But even after that it's still, you know, so poor that {disfmarker} that, uh, no one could really use it. So, um I think that's great that {disfmarker} because {disfmarker} and y also because again, it's not something {disfmarker} sometimes we've gotten terrible results by taking some data, and artificially, you know, convolving it with some room response, or something {disfmarker} we take a very {disfmarker} Uh, at one point, uh, Brian and I went downstairs into the {disfmarker} the basement where it was {disfmarker} it was in a hallway where it was very reverberant and we {disfmarker} we made some recordings there. And then we {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we, uh {disfmarker} uh, made a simulation of the {disfmarker} of the room acoustics there and {disfmarker} and applied it to other things,PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: and uh But it was all pretty artificial, and {disfmarker} and, you know, how often would you really try to have your most crucial conversations in this very reverberant hallway Um {pause} So, uh {pause} This is what's nice about the Aurora data and the data here, is that {disfmarker} is that it's sort of a realistic room situation {pause} uh, acoustics {disfmarker} acoustic situation, both terms in noise and reflections, and so on and n n And, uh, uh, with something that's still relatively realistic, it's still very very hard to do very well. So Yeah.PhD A: Yeah, so d well Actually, this is {disfmarker} tha that's why we {disfmarker} well, it's a different kind of data. three percent, or something, in development set.PhD C: Oh, wow.Professor D: So {disfmarker} so, you know, sort of everybody is doing things between, well, roughly a third of the errors, and half the errors being eliminated, {vocalsound} uh, and varying on different test sets and so forth.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor D: So I think Um {pause} It's probably a good time to look at what's really going on and seeing if there's a {disfmarker} there's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up the amount of, uh, resources used, cuz that's {disfmarker} that's critical for this {disfmarker} this test.PhD C: Do we know anything about {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who's was it that had the lowest on the dev setProfessor D: Um, uh, the, uh, the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of {disfmarker} of, uh, French Telecom and Alcatel. And, um they {disfmarker} they differed in some respects, but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System, {vocalsound} uh, which is the biggest difference, I think. But {disfmarker} but there're {disfmarker} there're {disfmarker} there're some other differences, too. Uh, and {disfmarker} and, uh, they both did very well,PhD C: Uh - huh.Professor D: you know So, {vocalsound} um, my impression is they also did very well on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} the, uh, evaluation set, but, um, I {disfmarker} I we haven't seen {disfmarker} you've - you haven't seen any final results for thatPhD C: And they used {disfmarker} the main thing that {disfmarker} that they used was spectral subtractionProfessor D: yeah.PhD C: OrProfessor D: There is a couple pieces to it. There's a spectral subtraction style piece {disfmarker} it was basically, you know, Wiener

What did the professor think about the pragmatic overview of the project

The professor thought that they needed to work more and asked who had ideas on how they could pursue new directions. He himself wanted to try out playing with MSG and multi-band. He also thought that they should try learning more about different acoustic environments.

Professor D: OK. So, uh You can fill those out, uh {pause} after, actually, so So, I got, uh {pause} these results from, uh, Stephane. Also, um, I think that, uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today, about other results. I think s that, uh, there were some other very good results that we're gonna wanna compare to. But, {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places, yeah.PhD A: I I'm sorry I didn'tProfessor D: Um, I got this from youPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: other than the {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one.PhD A: Oh yeah.Professor D: So {pause} um, I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is. But, uh, you know, so we'll see what it is comparatively later. But {pause} it looks like, umPhD A: M yeah.Professor D: You know most of the time, even {disfmarker} I mean even though it's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there's, um, uh Looks like out of the six cases, between the different kinds of, uh, matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases, there's basically, um, a couple where it stays about the same, uh, three where it gets better, and one where it gets worse.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, go ahead.PhD A: Y Actually, uh, um, for the Danish, there's still some kind of mystery because, um, um, when we use the straight features, we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one, I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight, we have eightPhD E: Yeah.Professor D: Well, but it was {comment} an MSG - like thing, but it wasn't MSG, right Uh, you {disfmarker} y I think in some case you got some little improvement, but it was, you know, sort of a small improvement, and it was a {disfmarker} a big added complication, so you dropped it. But, um, that was just sort of one try, right You just took one filter, threw it there,PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: right And it seems to me that, um, if that is an important idea, which, you know, might be, that one could work at it for a while, as you're saying.PhD A: Hmm.Professor D: And, uh Uh, and you had, you know, you had the multi - band things also, and, you know, there was issue of that.PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: Um, Barry's going to be, uh, continuing working on multi - band things as well.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor D: We were just talking about, um, {vocalsound} some, uh, some work that we're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the, uh {pause} uh, learning articulatory feature in {disfmarker} I think, in the case of his paper {disfmarker} with sonorance based on, uh, multi - band information where you have a {disfmarker} a combination of gradient learning an and, uh, EM.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: Um, and {pause} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um, so, I think that, you know, this is a, uh {disfmarker} this is a neat data set. Um, and then, uh, as we mentioned before, we also have the {disfmarker} the new, uh, digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So, there's a lot of things to work with. Um and, uh what I like about it, in a way, is that, uh, the results are still so terrible. Uh {pause} {vocalsound} Uh {pause} {vocalsound} I mean, they're much better than they were, you know. We're talking about thirty to sixty percent, uh, error rate reduction. That's {disfmarker} that's really great stuff to {disfmarker} to do that in relatively short time. But even after that it's still, you know, so poor that {disfmarker} that, uh, no one could really use it. So, um I think that's great that {disfmarker} because {disfmarker} and y also because again, it's not something {disfmarker} sometimes we've gotten terrible results by taking some data, and artificially, you know, convolving it with some room response, or something {disfmarker} we take a very {disfmarker} Uh, at one point, uh, Brian and I went downstairs into the {disfmarker} the basement where it was {disfmarker} it was in a hallway where it was very reverberant and we {disfmarker} we made some recordings there. And then we {vocalsound} {disfmarker} we, uh {disfmarker} uh, made a simulation of the {disfmarker} of the room acoustics there and {disfmarker} and applied it to other things,PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: and uh But it was all pretty artificial, and {disfmarker} and, you know, how often would you really try to have your most crucial conversations in this very reverberant hallway Um {pause} So, uh {pause} This is what's nice about the Aurora data and the data here, is that {disfmarker} is that it's sort of a realistic room situation {pause} uh, acoustics {disfmarker} acoustic situation, both terms in noise and reflections, and so on and n n And, uh, uh, with something that's still relatively realistic, it's still very very hard to do very well. So Yeah.PhD A: Yeah, so d well Actually, this is {disfmarker} tha that's why we {disfmarker} well, it's a different kind of data. Eighty - nine forty - four.PhD A: yeah. Uh, so, uh, that's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh, and Sunil is working on {disfmarker} on trying to {disfmarker} to check everything.Professor D: Oh, and {disfmarker} and we have a little time on that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} actually soPhD A: HmmProfessor D: We have a little bit of time on that, actually.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: We have a day or so, so When {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you folks leavePhD A: Uh, Sunday.Professor D: Sunday So So, uh Yeah, until Saturday midnight, or something, we have W we {disfmarker} we have time, yeah. Well, that would be good. That'd be good.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Yeah. Uh, and, you know, i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also, for sure, email Hynek because Hynek will be over there {vocalsound} telling people {vocalsound} what we did, so he should know.PhD A: Mmm. Yeah.Professor D: Good, OK. So, um So, we'll {disfmarker} we'll hold off on that a little bit. I mean, even with these results as they are, it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's really not that bad. But {disfmarker} but, uh, um And it looks like the overall result as they are now, even without, you know, any {disfmarker} any bugs being fixed is that, uh, on the {disfmarker} the other tasks, we had this average of, uh, forty uh {disfmarker} nine percent, or so, improvement. And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish, and somewhat worse than that on the German, but I mean, it sounds like, uh, one way or another, the methods that we're doing can reduce the error rate from {disfmarker} from mel ceptrum {pause} down by, you know {pause} a fourth of them to, uh, we think that {vocalsound} most of the errors are within phoneme classes, and so I think it could be interesting to {disfmarker} to see if it {disfmarker} I don't think it's still true when we add noise, and {vocalsound} so we have {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I guess the confusion ma the confusion matrices are very different when {disfmarker} when we have noise, and when it's clean speech. And probably, there is much more {pause} between classes errors for noisy speech.Professor D: Mm - hmm.PhD A: And {vocalsound} so, um Yeah, so perhaps we could have a {disfmarker} a large gain, eh, just by looking at improving the, uh, recognition, not of phonemes, but of phoneme classes, simply.Professor D: Mm - hmm.PhD A: And {vocalsound} which is a s a s a simpler problem, perhaps, but {disfmarker} which is perhaps important for noisy speech.Professor D: The other thing that strikes me, just looking at these numbers is, just taking the best cases, I mean, some of these, of course, even with all of our {disfmarker} our wonderful processing, still are horrible kinds of numbers. But just take the best case, the well - matched {pause} uh, German case after {disfmarker} er well - matched Danish after we {disfmarker}PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: the kind of numbers we're getting are about eight or nine {pause} uh {pause} p percent {pause} error {pause} per digit.PhD A: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Professor D: This is obviously not usable,PhD A: No.Professor D: rightPhD A: Sure.Professor D: I mean, if you have ten digits for a phone number {comment} I mean, every now and then you'll get it right. I mean, it's {disfmarker} it's, uh, {vocalsound} um So, I mean, the other thing is that, uh {disfmarker} And {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} a and {disfmarker} and also,

What did PhD C and the professor discuss about multiple languages

PhD C and the professor expressed a desire to learn more about nets that incorporated multiple languages. They thought they could explore whether it was better to have one net for many languages or different nets for each language.

Yeah.Professor D: Well, but it was {comment} an MSG - like thing, but it wasn't MSG, right Uh, you {disfmarker} y I think in some case you got some little improvement, but it was, you know, sort of a small improvement, and it was a {disfmarker} a big added complication, so you dropped it. But, um, that was just sort of one try, right You just took one filter, threw it there,PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: right And it seems to me that, um, if that is an important idea, which, you know, might be, that one could work at it for a while, as you're saying.PhD A: Hmm.Professor D: And, uh Uh, and you had, you know, you had the multi - band things also, and, you know, there was issue of that.PhD A: Yeah,Professor D: Um, Barry's going to be, uh, continuing working on multi - band things as well.PhD E: Mm - hmm.Professor D: We were just talking about, um, {vocalsound} some, uh, some work that we're interested in. Kind of inspired by the stuff by Larry Saul with the, uh {pause} uh, learning articulatory feature in {disfmarker} I think, in the case of his paper {disfmarker} with sonorance based on, uh, multi - band information where you have a {disfmarker} a combination of gradient learning an and, uh, EM.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: Um, and {pause} {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Um, so, I think that, you know, this is a, uh {disfmarker} this is a neat data set. Um, and then, uh, as we mentioned before, we also have the {disfmarker} the new, uh, digit set coming up from recordings in this room. So, there's a lot of things to work with. Um and, uh what I like about it, in a way, is that, uh, the results Professor D: OK. So, uh You can fill those out, uh {pause} after, actually, so So, I got, uh {pause} these results from, uh, Stephane. Also, um, I think that, uh {pause} um {pause} we might hear later today, about other results. I think s that, uh, there were some other very good results that we're gonna wanna compare to. But, {vocalsound} r our results from other {disfmarker} other places, yeah.PhD A: I I'm sorry I didn'tProfessor D: Um, I got this from youPhD A: Yeah.Professor D: and then I sent a note to Sunil about the {disfmarker} cuz he has been running some other systemsPhD A: Mm - hmm.Professor D: other than the {disfmarker} the ICSI OGI one.PhD A: Oh yeah.Professor D: So {pause} um, I wan wanna {disfmarker} wanna see what that is. But, uh, you know, so we'll see what it is comparatively later. But {pause} it looks like, umPhD A: M yeah.Professor D: You know most of the time, even {disfmarker} I mean even though it's true that the overall number for Danish {disfmarker} we didn't improve it If you look at it individually, what it really says is that there's, um, uh Looks like out of the six cases, between the different kinds of, uh, matching conditions {pause} out of the six cases, there's basically, um, a couple where it stays about the same, uh, three where it gets better, and one where it gets worse.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Uh, go ahead.PhD A: Y Actually, uh, um, for the Danish, there's still some kind of mystery because, um, um, when we use the straight features, we are not able to get these nice number with the ICSI OGI one, I mean. We don't have this ninety - three seventy - eight, we have eightPhD E: three percent, or something, in development set.PhD C: Oh, wow.Professor D: So {disfmarker} so, you know, sort of everybody is doing things between, well, roughly a third of the errors, and half the errors being eliminated, {vocalsound} uh, and varying on different test sets and so forth.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Professor D: So I think Um {pause} It's probably a good time to look at what's really going on and seeing if there's a {disfmarker} there's a way to combine the best ideas while at the same time not blowing up the amount of, uh, resources used, cuz that's {disfmarker} that's critical for this {disfmarker} this test.PhD C: Do we know anything about {disfmarker} who {disfmarker} who's was it that had the lowest on the dev setProfessor D: Um, uh, the, uh, the there were two systems that were put forth by a combination of {disfmarker} of, uh, French Telecom and Alcatel. And, um they {disfmarker} they differed in some respects, but they e em one was called the French Telecom Alcatel System the other was called the Alcatel French Telecom System, {vocalsound} uh, which is the biggest difference, I think. But {disfmarker} but there're {disfmarker} there're {disfmarker} there're some other differences, too. Uh, and {disfmarker} and, uh, they both did very well,PhD C: Uh - huh.Professor D: you know So, {vocalsound} um, my impression is they also did very well on {disfmarker} on the {disfmarker} the, uh, evaluation set, but, um, I {disfmarker} I we haven't seen {disfmarker} you've - you haven't seen any final results for thatPhD C: And they used {disfmarker} the main thing that {disfmarker} that they used was spectral subtractionProfessor D: yeah.PhD C: OrProfessor D: There is a couple pieces to it. There's a spectral subtraction style piece {disfmarker} it was basically, you know, Wiener We're not {disfmarker} we're not used to work with this kind of data. That's why we should have a loo more closer look at what's going on.Professor D: Yeah.PhD E: Mm - hmm.PhD A: Um Yeah. So this would be the first thing, and then, of course, try to {disfmarker} well, {vocalsound} kind of debug what was wrong, eh, when we do Aurora test on the MSG {pause} particularly, and on the multi - band.Professor D: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.PhD A: UhProfessor D: Yeah. Yeah. No, I {disfmarker} I think there's lots of {disfmarker} lots of good things to do with this. So Um So let's {disfmarker} I guess {pause} You were gonna say something else Oh, OK. What do you thinkPhD C: AboutProfessor D: AnythingPhD C: About other experiments Uh, now, I'm interested in, um, uh {pause} looking at the experiments where you use, um {pause} uh, data from multiple languages to train the neural net. And I don't know how far, or if you guys even had a chance to try that, but {pause} that would be some it'd be interesting to me.PhD A: Yeah, butProfessor D: S bPhD A: Again, it's the kind of {disfmarker} of thing that, uh, we were thin thinking {disfmarker} thinking that it would work, but it didn't work. And, eh, so there is kind of {disfmarker} of {pause} not a bug, but something wrong in what we are doing, perhaps.Professor D: Yeah.PhD C: Right. Right.PhD A: Uh, something wrong, perhaps in the {disfmarker} just in the {disfmarker} the fact that the labels are {disfmarker}PhD C: Right.PhD A: wellPhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD A: What worked best is the hand - labeled data.PhD C: Mm - hmm.PhD A: Um Uh, so, yeah. I don't know if we can get some hand - labeled data Eighty - nine forty - four.PhD A: yeah. Uh, so, uh, that's probably something wrong with the features that we get from OGI. Uh, and Sunil is working on {disfmarker} on trying to {disfmarker} to check everything.Professor D: Oh, and {disfmarker} and we have a little time on that {disfmarker} and {disfmarker} actually soPhD A: HmmProfessor D: We have a little bit of time on that, actually.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: We have a day or so, so When {disfmarker} when {disfmarker} when do you folks leavePhD A: Uh, Sunday.Professor D: Sunday So So, uh Yeah, until Saturday midnight, or something, we have W we {disfmarker} we have time, yeah. Well, that would be good. That'd be good.PhD A: Yeah.Professor D: Yeah. Uh, and, you know, i u when whenever anybody figures it out they should also, for sure, email Hynek because Hynek will be over there {vocalsound} telling people {vocalsound} what we did, so he should know.PhD A: Mmm. Yeah.Professor D: Good, OK. So, um So, we'll {disfmarker} we'll hold off on that a little bit. I mean, even with these results as they are, it's {disfmarker} it's {disfmarker} it's really not that bad. But {disfmarker} but, uh, um And it looks like the overall result as they are now, even without, you know, any {disfmarker} any bugs being fixed is that, uh, on the {disfmarker} the other tasks, we had this average of, uh, forty uh {disfmarker} nine percent, or so, improvement. And here we have somewhat better than that than the Danish, and somewhat worse than that on the German, but I mean, it sounds like, uh, one way or another, the methods that we're doing can reduce the error rate from {disfmarker} from mel ceptrum {pause} down by, you know {pause} a fourth of them to, uh,

Summarize the meeting

The project was finally coming to a conclusion and the team was getting ready to share their results. They achieved an error rate reduction for the task, but the error rate in itself was still significant. The team also had to think about how they could make their model efficient for it to be deployed as they continue with future research. They discussed some new directions and were reminded that while the initial phase was over, much work lied ahead of them.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.The Chair: I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: You said next question, so we're not going backwards, ChairThe Chair: Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay No We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Should I repeat the question, sirThe Chair: Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that identify and erase systemic racism, yes or noHon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, making decisions based on science and evidence is essential for our government. We took that practice from day one. It is exactly the step we will take moving forward and that's why we are making those investments to ensure that data exists. We are working across all departments. My mandate letter is public. I look forward to continuing to work not only with all ministers, departments and agencies, but all allies and all parties to get this work done.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr. Blaney, the honourable member for BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, has the floor.Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC): Thank you, MadamChair. Last week, my plumber told me that, each time Justin Trudeau comes down the steps to make announcements totalling several billion dollars, he feels like someone is rifling through his pockets. My question is simple and goes to the Minister of Finance: where is this money coming fromHon. Mona Fortier: MadamChair, I would like to thank my honourable colleague for his question. Currently, the health and safety of Canadians are our top priorities. We have implemented an emergency economic plan to support Canadians, workers and companies. We will continue to support them during this crisis.Hon. Steven Blaney: The answer I would have liked is simple: we are borrowing the money and we are going to have to pay it back one day. That is another Liberal craze: they borrow money, they make campaign promises, and off they go. Under the Conservative government, the Chantier Davie in Lvis had 1,700workers for the supply ship Asterix. In the election campaign, the Liberals promised icebreakers. When are the Liberals going to award the icebreaker contracts to the Chantier DavieHon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of ahead, Mr. Lewis.Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Minister, for the answer. The EI system needs to be fixed. Even before the shutdown, the system was deeply flawed. Will this government commit to a complete review and overhaul of the EI systemHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we have been there for Canadian workers. We will continue to make sure that we make the necessary investments in the EI delivery system and modernize it to continue to meetThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Lewis.Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Madam Chair. Small businesses have been hit extremely hard by the COVID-19 shutdown. Many have already been forced into bankruptcy. Much uncertainty lies ahead. As the economy reopens, what is the government doing to help small businesses recoverHon. Mary Ng: Madam Chair, today we are seeing small businesses that have been helped, whether it is getting access to the small business loan, which some are also using in the restart as they are safely restarting, or getting help with their payroll, helping them keep their employeesThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Lewis.Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Madam Chair. Employees are key to a small business's success. How will the government incentivize workers to return to their jobs when recalledThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable minister can give a brief answer.Hon. Mary Ng: The Canada emergency wage subsidy is an excellent program to help those employees stay employed and for those employers who are looking at rehiring them right now during this restart process.Mr. Chris Lewis: Madam Chair, many of my constituents are in a committed cross-border relationship and have not been able to see their partners in quite some time. The current restrictions are arbitrary. Denmark has found a fair

Summarize the discussion about the economic update and systemic racism.

The discussion about the questions of minister started with the issue of economic update, and then it turned to discuss the federal support for the provinces. The following topics were systemic racism. Hon. Chrystia Freeland emphasized that systemic racism had existed in all federal institutions in Canada.

to Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three monthsHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workersThe Chair: Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctlyHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure CanadiansThe Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Normandin. Ms. Normandin, you have the floor.Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that go a long way toward helping Canadians with disabilities. We encourage and urge all parties in the opposition to support this measure. We're confident that this measure, along with other investments, will benefit Canadians with disabilities, and we hope to get the support of the other parties very soon.Ms. Louise Chabot: MadamChair, I remind you that this measure wasn't passed because we weren't allowed to do so. A measure to help people with disabilities has been put in an omnibus bill. We've tried here, in the House, to provide the means to give that support, so I ask again, can the government be counted on to give a response to people with disabilitiesHon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, it was absolutely not an omnibus bill. It contained assistance for the disabled, of course, but it also contained assistance for our seasonal workers, as well as a number of other measures that the Bloc Qubcois opposed. They refused to debate and, when the question of splitting the bill came up, the Conservatives refused to do that. That is why there is no bill at the moment, and that is very unfortunate.Ms. Louise Chabot: It was a Bloc Qubcois proposal to split the bill. The government had not thought of it, but they found that it was a good idea. Let me return to the attack. This bill proposed changes to the wage subsidy program, it was supposed to make the CERB more flexible, it proposed fines for fraudsters and, since there was a little section about a benefit for the disabled, the government took it for granted that we would support it without any negotiations with the parties. However, we set one very important condition: that the Liberal Party must get its hands out of taxpayers'pockets in terms of the wage subsidy.Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, as we listen to the Bloc Qubcois members, we might think that they invented peanut butter and apple pie. This bill contained a number of measures that all Quebeckers and all Canadians needed, but the Bloc Qubcois refused to debate it. No, we did not follow the Bloc Qubcois'example in splitting the bill; we had thought of it a long time previously. We have not been able to do that because of the Conservatives. Because of them, we cannot help those living with disabilities.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Ms. Chabot, you have 45seconds left.Ms. Louise Chabot: We asked on a number of occasions for the House to be able to sit starting today to pass the part of the bill dealing with those with disabilities. What is the status of that, MadamChair We have not heard about it since.Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, my colleague knows very well that things are not as simple as that. There are procedural mechanisms unique to the House. I hope that, one day, we will be able to pass this bill and be able to provide assistance for those living with disabilities. I hope that the Conservatives will change their minds and give us their support.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go now to the honourable member for Don Valley East, Ms. Ratansi.Ms. Yasmin Ratansi (Don Valley East, Lib.): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be sharing my time with the member for Surrey Centre. Since 2015 our government has been focused on ensuring its policies mitigate the effects of climate change. Several measures have been implemented for phasing out coal, making polluters pay, providing climate incentives, investing in green technologies and much more, which all together have created a climate plan that is doing more to cut pollution than any that treat people who use substances with the dignity they deserve. Madam Chair, this is a complex issue. We're working closely with our partners to make sure that we can prevent more lives from being lost.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for South OkanaganWest Kootenay, Mr. Cannings.Mr. Richard Cannings (South OkanaganWest Kootenay, NDP): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for SkeenaBulkley Valley. In my riding, Theo's in Penticton is a beloved restaurant. They've been serving great food for 40 years, but now they're struggling, because they don't qualify for the emergency wage subsidy. Why is that The original owners retired last year and sold it to another operator. The new owner can't use a year-to-year comparison to apply for the wage subsidy because he didn't own the restaurant last spring. He is forced to use receipts from January and February, the darkest doldrums of the restaurant year, to compare with the results from May, traditionally one of their best months. Now he has to compete with other local restaurants that can access the subsidy. When will the government fix this inequity and let Theo's compete and surviveHon. Mona Fortier: Madam Chair, the Canada emergency wage subsidy is supporting over 2. 5 million workers across the country. To help even more businesses support their workers and rehire people as they reopen, our government is extending the CEWS, and we will continue to extend the CEWS for an additional 12 weeks to August 29 to ensure that Canadian workers continue to have the support they need during these very difficult times. By extending eligibility, our government is ensuring that more Canadian workers in more sectors have the support they need.Mr. Richard Cannings: The owner just wants to be able

What did Christine Normandin think about federal support for the provinces

Christine Normandin mentioned that in the past it took a long time for the provinces to negotiate conditions with the federal government. Christine Normandin wanted to know the future situation: whether the federal government would send the money unconditionally.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.The Chair: I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: You said next question, so we're not going backwards, ChairThe Chair: Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay No We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Should I repeat the question, sirThe Chair: Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will do and want to do.The Chair: Ms. Wagantall, we will start the clock again. You have one minute and 45 seconds remaining. Please proceed.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: If that's the case, is Minister MacAulay aware of the practice of red-flagging veterans'filesHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I'm not aware.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Since the deputy minister has indicated that he runs the department, will the minister ask him for the names of veterans and the dates and the reasons that they are, or have been, red-flagged by VACHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I would certainly ask any veteran or anybody who has a concern to contact my office. I will do anything I can to make sure that the veteransThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Do the most ill and injured still receive from the pension up to $300,000 less for lifeHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as you know and as the Prime Minister indicated when the pension for life was put in place, it was stated that if anybody receives lessthe Prime Minister himself indicated it quite clearlythat must be adjusted.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: For veterans in similar circumstances, should the date of their application for compensation be a factor in determining whether they're treated equitablyHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Yes, of course, the date is when the compensation would start. Of course, it's very important and very appropriate.The Chair: Now we will proceed to Mr. Lloyd.Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Retired Major Mark Campbell in my riding of Sturgeon RiverParkland lost both legs in the line of duty in Afghanistan. He is an avid sport shooter, but understandably, due to his disability, he is very limited in the kinds of firearms he can use, and all of these firearms have now been banned under the wage subsidy program, and this means that 2. 6 million workers are being helped. Businesses are also being helped through the interest-free $40,000 loan they can access through CEBA to help stay afloat and pay their expenses during this crisis. I'm pleased to inform this House that to date more than 669,000The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for St. John's East.Mr. Jack Harris: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for LondonFanshawe. Madam Chair, with so many recent reports and videos of police using force, sometimes deadly force, and violence against indigenous and black people in Canada, I've called for the public safety committee to reconvene. If the members agree, will the minister come to the committee and provide concrete answers as to how the government intends to address racism inherent in Canada's law enforcement, and in particular the RCMPHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank my colleague for the question. It's perhaps the most important one facing Canada today. Madam Chair, indigenous people, black Canadians and other racialized people are far too often experiencing systemic racism and disparate outcomes within the entire criminal justice system. In order to respond appropriately, I think it's necessary to begin by acknowledging the lived experience of people who've known bias and discrimination at the hands of the police and our courts and within our prisons. We remain committed to working with all racialized people and all of the members of this House to ensure that we work toward social justice for all Canadians, and I look forward to discussing the member's motion further with him.Mr. Jack Harris: Will the minister and the government commit to facilitating such a meeting of this committee virtuallyHon. Bill Blair: identify and erase systemic racism, yes or noHon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, making decisions based on science and evidence is essential for our government. We took that practice from day one. It is exactly the step we will take moving forward and that's why we are making those investments to ensure that data exists. We are working across all departments. My mandate letter is public. I look forward to continuing to work not only with all ministers, departments and agencies, but all allies and all parties to get this work done.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr. Blaney, the honourable member for BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, has the floor.Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC): Thank you, MadamChair. Last week, my plumber told me that, each time Justin Trudeau comes down the steps to make announcements totalling several billion dollars, he feels like someone is rifling through his pockets. My question is simple and goes to the Minister of Finance: where is this money coming fromHon. Mona Fortier: MadamChair, I would like to thank my honourable colleague for his question. Currently, the health and safety of Canadians are our top priorities. We have implemented an emergency economic plan to support Canadians, workers and companies. We will continue to support them during this crisis.Hon. Steven Blaney: The answer I would have liked is simple: we are borrowing the money and we are going to have to pay it back one day. That is another Liberal craze: they borrow money, they make campaign promises, and off they go. Under the Conservative government, the Chantier Davie in Lvis had 1,700workers for the supply ship Asterix. In the election campaign, the Liberals promised icebreakers. When are the Liberals going to award the icebreaker contracts to the Chantier DavieHon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of

What did Hon. Chrystia Freeland think about systemic racism

Hon. Chrystia Freeland stated that there had existed racism in Canada. Systemic racism had existed in all federal institutions, including the RCMP.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASERHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.Mr. James Bezan: I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind scheduleHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement. We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement to Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three monthsHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workersThe Chair: Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctlyHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure CanadiansThe Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Normandin. Ms. Normandin, you have the floor.Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that Wagantall: On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.The Chair: I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: You said next question, so we're not going backwards, ChairThe Chair: Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay No We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Should I repeat the question, sirThe Chair: Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will

Summarize the discussion about finance and veterans.

This part mainly discussed a number of financial questions happening during the pandemic. Those involved the foreign businessmen, veterans, and rural communities, project to widen the road. There followed a series of detailed questions and answers about veterans'compensation and pension.

means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASERHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.Mr. James Bezan: I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind scheduleHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement. We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement to Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three monthsHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workersThe Chair: Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctlyHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure CanadiansThe Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Normandin. Ms. Normandin, you have the floor.Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening Genuis: Mr. Chair, the public can listen to this. I'm sure this exchange will also be available on Google, and the public can draw their own conclusions. We have failures on 5G, failures when it comes to the transport of deadly viruses and failures when it comes to giving over $400 million to the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. It's clear that the Bank of China's investment in Minister Champagne is paying off. It's time for the minister to settle his debt with the Communist government and not settle it on the backs of Canadians. When will the minister be here in the House and answer questions about this mortgageHon. Pablo Rodriguez: My colleague should be cautious with what he is saying in the House, Mr. Chair. This is serious stuff. He should be careful about what he says. The minister is actually working extremely hard for all Canadians and is doing his job correctly, Mr. Chair. We're talking about public information. Once again, let him go to Google and google it. That's it.The Chair: Now we'll go to Mr. Barrett.Mr. Michael Barrett: Canada's ambassador to the United Nations sent a letter last week to all member states of the UN promising that Canada would consider providing more funding for UNRRA, the same UNRRA that is a front for Hamas, which allows weapons of terror to be stored in schools and provides textbooks that call for the destruction of Israel. Do these Liberals have no shame when it comes to their quest for a seat on the UN Security CouncilHon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the honourable member for that question. We know that at this time Canada must show leadership in the face of global challenges. and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that identify and erase systemic racism, yes or noHon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, making decisions based on science and evidence is essential for our government. We took that practice from day one. It is exactly the step we will take moving forward and that's why we are making those investments to ensure that data exists. We are working across all departments. My mandate letter is public. I look forward to continuing to work not only with all ministers, departments and agencies, but all allies and all parties to get this work done.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr. Blaney, the honourable member for BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, has the floor.Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC): Thank you, MadamChair. Last week, my plumber told me that, each time Justin Trudeau comes down the steps to make announcements totalling several billion dollars, he feels like someone is rifling through his pockets. My question is simple and goes to the Minister of Finance: where is this money coming fromHon. Mona Fortier: MadamChair, I would like to thank my honourable colleague for his question. Currently, the health and safety of Canadians are our top priorities. We have implemented an emergency economic plan to support Canadians, workers and companies. We will continue to support them during this crisis.Hon. Steven Blaney: The answer I would have liked is simple: we are borrowing the money and we are going to have to pay it back one day. That is another Liberal craze: they borrow money, they make campaign promises, and off they go. Under the Conservative government, the Chantier Davie in Lvis had 1,700workers for the supply ship Asterix. In the election campaign, the Liberals promised icebreakers. When are the Liberals going to award the icebreaker contracts to the Chantier DavieHon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of

What did the minister think about foreign businessmen in Canada when talking about finance and security

Hon. Bill Blair, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, stated that the priority must be the protection of the health and safety of Canadians, and restrictions for non-essential travel, and a 14-day quarantine was required for those who had an essential purpose.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASERHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.Mr. James Bezan: I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind scheduleHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement. We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement wage subsidy program, and this means that 2. 6 million workers are being helped. Businesses are also being helped through the interest-free $40,000 loan they can access through CEBA to help stay afloat and pay their expenses during this crisis. I'm pleased to inform this House that to date more than 669,000The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for St. John's East.Mr. Jack Harris: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for LondonFanshawe. Madam Chair, with so many recent reports and videos of police using force, sometimes deadly force, and violence against indigenous and black people in Canada, I've called for the public safety committee to reconvene. If the members agree, will the minister come to the committee and provide concrete answers as to how the government intends to address racism inherent in Canada's law enforcement, and in particular the RCMPHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank my colleague for the question. It's perhaps the most important one facing Canada today. Madam Chair, indigenous people, black Canadians and other racialized people are far too often experiencing systemic racism and disparate outcomes within the entire criminal justice system. In order to respond appropriately, I think it's necessary to begin by acknowledging the lived experience of people who've known bias and discrimination at the hands of the police and our courts and within our prisons. We remain committed to working with all racialized people and all of the members of this House to ensure that we work toward social justice for all Canadians, and I look forward to discussing the member's motion further with him.Mr. Jack Harris: Will the minister and the government commit to facilitating such a meeting of this committee virtuallyHon. Bill Blair: do and want to do.The Chair: Ms. Wagantall, we will start the clock again. You have one minute and 45 seconds remaining. Please proceed.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: If that's the case, is Minister MacAulay aware of the practice of red-flagging veterans'filesHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I'm not aware.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Since the deputy minister has indicated that he runs the department, will the minister ask him for the names of veterans and the dates and the reasons that they are, or have been, red-flagged by VACHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I would certainly ask any veteran or anybody who has a concern to contact my office. I will do anything I can to make sure that the veteransThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Do the most ill and injured still receive from the pension up to $300,000 less for lifeHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as you know and as the Prime Minister indicated when the pension for life was put in place, it was stated that if anybody receives lessthe Prime Minister himself indicated it quite clearlythat must be adjusted.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: For veterans in similar circumstances, should the date of their application for compensation be a factor in determining whether they're treated equitablyHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Yes, of course, the date is when the compensation would start. Of course, it's very important and very appropriate.The Chair: Now we will proceed to Mr. Lloyd.Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Retired Major Mark Campbell in my riding of Sturgeon RiverParkland lost both legs in the line of duty in Afghanistan. He is an avid sport shooter, but understandably, due to his disability, he is very limited in the kinds of firearms he can use, and all of these firearms have now been banned under the identify and erase systemic racism, yes or noHon. Bardish Chagger: Madam Chair, making decisions based on science and evidence is essential for our government. We took that practice from day one. It is exactly the step we will take moving forward and that's why we are making those investments to ensure that data exists. We are working across all departments. My mandate letter is public. I look forward to continuing to work not only with all ministers, departments and agencies, but all allies and all parties to get this work done.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr. Blaney, the honourable member for BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, has the floor.Hon. Steven Blaney (BellechasseLes EtcheminsLvis, CPC): Thank you, MadamChair. Last week, my plumber told me that, each time Justin Trudeau comes down the steps to make announcements totalling several billion dollars, he feels like someone is rifling through his pockets. My question is simple and goes to the Minister of Finance: where is this money coming fromHon. Mona Fortier: MadamChair, I would like to thank my honourable colleague for his question. Currently, the health and safety of Canadians are our top priorities. We have implemented an emergency economic plan to support Canadians, workers and companies. We will continue to support them during this crisis.Hon. Steven Blaney: The answer I would have liked is simple: we are borrowing the money and we are going to have to pay it back one day. That is another Liberal craze: they borrow money, they make campaign promises, and off they go. Under the Conservative government, the Chantier Davie in Lvis had 1,700workers for the supply ship Asterix. In the election campaign, the Liberals promised icebreakers. When are the Liberals going to award the icebreaker contracts to the Chantier DavieHon. David Lametti (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of

What did Hon. Lawrence MacAulay think about the public debate about policies and programs that affect veterans and their families

Hon. Lawrence MacAulay assured that everyone was welcome to enter the discussion to provide as appropriate compensation as possible. On the other side, it represented democracy.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay to Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three monthsHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workersThe Chair: Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctlyHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure CanadiansThe Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Normandin. Ms. Normandin, you have the floor.Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening Wagantall: On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.The Chair: I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: You said next question, so we're not going backwards, ChairThe Chair: Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay No We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Should I repeat the question, sirThe Chair: Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASERHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.Mr. James Bezan: I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind scheduleHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement. We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement

Summarize the discussion about the budget and the disabilities.

Dane Lloyd asked about the budget given by the government in the economic recession, This was to table an economic update and provide jobs. As for the disabilities, Louise Chabot pointed to the bill regarding the disabilities and why it was not passed.

means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASERHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.Mr. James Bezan: I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind scheduleHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement. We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that to Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three monthsHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workersThe Chair: Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctlyHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure CanadiansThe Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Normandin. Ms. Normandin, you have the floor.Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening do and want to do.The Chair: Ms. Wagantall, we will start the clock again. You have one minute and 45 seconds remaining. Please proceed.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: If that's the case, is Minister MacAulay aware of the practice of red-flagging veterans'filesHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I'm not aware.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Since the deputy minister has indicated that he runs the department, will the minister ask him for the names of veterans and the dates and the reasons that they are, or have been, red-flagged by VACHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I would certainly ask any veteran or anybody who has a concern to contact my office. I will do anything I can to make sure that the veteransThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Do the most ill and injured still receive from the pension up to $300,000 less for lifeHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as you know and as the Prime Minister indicated when the pension for life was put in place, it was stated that if anybody receives lessthe Prime Minister himself indicated it quite clearlythat must be adjusted.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: For veterans in similar circumstances, should the date of their application for compensation be a factor in determining whether they're treated equitablyHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Yes, of course, the date is when the compensation would start. Of course, it's very important and very appropriate.The Chair: Now we will proceed to Mr. Lloyd.Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Retired Major Mark Campbell in my riding of Sturgeon RiverParkland lost both legs in the line of duty in Afghanistan. He is an avid sport shooter, but understandably, due to his disability, he is very limited in the kinds of firearms he can use, and all of these firearms have now been banned under the Liberal OIC. My question to the Minister of Public Safety is this: Did their department do a legal analysis and consider the section 15 charter rights of disabled Canadians not to be discriminated against when they passed their OICHon. Bill Blair: Yes, there was a very thorough analysis done by the justice department to ensure that the prohibitions we put in place were, in fact, charter compliant. Let me also say, Mr. Chair, how important it was that we prohibited weapons that were not designed for sporting purposes at all. In fact, they were designed for soldiers to use in combat. They have no place in a civil society. We have prohibited them, and we believeand this has been echoed by many people across the countrythat this will make Canadians safer.Mr. Dane Lloyd: Mr. Chair, is the minister aware that the AR-15 is the most popular sporting rifle in Canada, and is he aware that disabled veterans like Major Mark Campbell are unable to participate in the sport of sport shooting because of his OICHon. Bill Blair: I can assure the member that what I am aware of is that the AR-15 and other weapons like them have been used in mass killings in Canada on many occasions, such as at cole Polytechnique, at Dawson College, again at the Quebec mosque and in Moncton. The AR-15s in particular were also used at the terrible tragedy in places like Sandy Hook, where a bunch of kids were killed, so there is no place forThe Chair: We will go to Mr. Lloyd.Mr. Dane Lloyd: Mr. Chair, it has been months since the Liberals shut down this Parliament and months since the Minister of Finance should have presented a budget or at least an economic update to Canadians. Since then we have seen

What would Canadian government do to save the lives of Canadians when talking about the budget and the disabilities

The government let people who lived with substance use to access medications more easily. Safe injection sites had been made in communities and community-based projects had been supported for people who were using substances.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.The Chair: I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: You said next question, so we're not going backwards, ChairThe Chair: Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay No We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Should I repeat the question, sirThe Chair: Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will Rodriguez: MadamChair, as we listen to the Bloc Qubcois members, we might think that they invented peanut butter and apple pie. This bill contained a number of measures that all Quebeckers and all Canadians needed, but the Bloc Qubcois refused to debate it. No, we did not follow the Bloc Qubcois'example in splitting the bill; we had thought of it a long time previously. We have not been able to do that because of the Conservatives. Because of them, we cannot help those living with disabilities.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Ms. Chabot, you have 45seconds left.Ms. Louise Chabot: We asked on a number of occasions for the House to be able to sit starting today to pass the part of the bill dealing with those with disabilities. What is the status of that, MadamChair We have not heard about it since.Hon. Pablo Rodriguez: MadamChair, my colleague knows very well that things are not as simple as that. There are procedural mechanisms unique to the House. I hope that, one day, we will be able to pass this bill and be able to provide assistance for those living with disabilities. I hope that the Conservatives will change their minds and give us their support.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go now to the honourable member for Don Valley East, Ms. Ratansi.Ms. Yasmin Ratansi (Don Valley East, Lib.): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be sharing my time with the member for Surrey Centre. Since 2015 our government has been focused on ensuring its policies mitigate the effects of climate change. Several measures have been implemented for phasing out coal, making polluters pay, providing climate incentives, investing in green technologies and much more, which all together have created a climate plan that is doing more to cut pollution than any that we bring the proper compensation to veteransThe Chair: We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: As a result of that study, are the financial outcomes Canada seeks to provide for ill and injured veterans now clearly defined within the Department of Veterans AffairsHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as the member would know, I am to bring a report to the veterans affairs committee, and there are a number of things done in order to make sure that report isThe Chair: We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Then I would suggest that we get our committee up and going as it should be. Where are these financial directions publishedHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Well, of course, lockdown, but just under $90 million that the government put in supplementary estimates to make sure we address the backlog for Veterans Affairs. It's a major helpThe Chair: We'll go back to Mrs. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Minister, are Canadian Armed Forces members provided with a copy of this documentHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, my honourable colleague would have to ask the Canadian Armed Forces that question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: There are three different providing lifetime benefits for ill and injured veterans. In Ombudsman Dalton's recent report, did any one of these three provide the best compensation in all nine scenarios that were studiedHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Of course, as she knows, there's been a lot of work done in order to make sure that we provide the proper compensation to veterans. We're working very hard, with a lot of help from Mr. Dalton, to make sure that the appropriateThe Chair: We'll now continue with Mrs. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: In the undisclosed settlement of Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says. . . Canadians, especially all Veterans and do and want to do.The Chair: Ms. Wagantall, we will start the clock again. You have one minute and 45 seconds remaining. Please proceed.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: If that's the case, is Minister MacAulay aware of the practice of red-flagging veterans'filesHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I'm not aware.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Since the deputy minister has indicated that he runs the department, will the minister ask him for the names of veterans and the dates and the reasons that they are, or have been, red-flagged by VACHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I would certainly ask any veteran or anybody who has a concern to contact my office. I will do anything I can to make sure that the veteransThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Do the most ill and injured still receive from the pension up to $300,000 less for lifeHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as you know and as the Prime Minister indicated when the pension for life was put in place, it was stated that if anybody receives lessthe Prime Minister himself indicated it quite clearlythat must be adjusted.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: For veterans in similar circumstances, should the date of their application for compensation be a factor in determining whether they're treated equitablyHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Yes, of course, the date is when the compensation would start. Of course, it's very important and very appropriate.The Chair: Now we will proceed to Mr. Lloyd.Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Retired Major Mark Campbell in my riding of Sturgeon RiverParkland lost both legs in the line of duty in Afghanistan. He is an avid sport shooter, but understandably, due to his disability, he is very limited in the kinds of firearms he can use, and all of these firearms have now been banned under the

What did Hon. Ahmed Hussen think about the bill for the disabilities

Hon. Ahmed Hussen mentioned that the government had announced a one-time of $600 for persons with disabilities to address the expense in need. However, this bill was refused by the Conservatives yet it was expected to be passed in one day.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay to Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three monthsHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workersThe Chair: Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctlyHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure CanadiansThe Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Normandin. Ms. Normandin, you have the floor.Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening Wagantall: On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.The Chair: I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: You said next question, so we're not going backwards, ChairThe Chair: Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay No We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Should I repeat the question, sirThe Chair: Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will do and want to do.The Chair: Ms. Wagantall, we will start the clock again. You have one minute and 45 seconds remaining. Please proceed.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: If that's the case, is Minister MacAulay aware of the practice of red-flagging veterans'filesHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I'm not aware.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Since the deputy minister has indicated that he runs the department, will the minister ask him for the names of veterans and the dates and the reasons that they are, or have been, red-flagged by VACHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I would certainly ask any veteran or anybody who has a concern to contact my office. I will do anything I can to make sure that the veteransThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Do the most ill and injured still receive from the pension up to $300,000 less for lifeHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as you know and as the Prime Minister indicated when the pension for life was put in place, it was stated that if anybody receives lessthe Prime Minister himself indicated it quite clearlythat must be adjusted.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: For veterans in similar circumstances, should the date of their application for compensation be a factor in determining whether they're treated equitablyHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Yes, of course, the date is when the compensation would start. Of course, it's very important and very appropriate.The Chair: Now we will proceed to Mr. Lloyd.Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Retired Major Mark Campbell in my riding of Sturgeon RiverParkland lost both legs in the line of duty in Afghanistan. He is an avid sport shooter, but understandably, due to his disability, he is very limited in the kinds of firearms he can use, and all of these firearms have now been banned under the to talk about itHon. David Lametti: MadamChair, the contents of BillC-17 are clearly very important. We have addressed the mandatory time limits in federal legislation as well as certain time limits that courts may not be able to handle. It is very important that we address this issue. That is why the lawThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Mr. Fortin, you have the floor.Mr. Rhal Fortin: MadamChair, we agree that it is important. I concur. The minister's briefing notes say that, among other things, when it comes to divorcewhich means children are involved people are waiting on custody rights, child support and visitation rights. The minister pointed out that the national security review would require consultations if no decision is made in the prescribed time frame. It could pose a national security risk. It is really a big deal. When are we going to debate itHon. David Lametti: MadamChair, I completely agree with my honourable colleague. The issue needs to be addressed. That is why it is in the bill. That is another reason to debate the bill. I beseech my colleagues opposite to debate it with us.Mr. Rhal Fortin: MadamChair, what a coincidence, because I beseech my colleague opposite to debate it with us. That is what we are asking. Last week, the leader of the Bloc Qubcois asked the Liberal government to debate BillC-17 today. He did not get an answer. It does not seem to matter. Richard Wagner, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who is hardly a dimwit or greenhorn, told us that the justice system needs to be modernized. As recently as this past Saturday in LaPresse, Justice Wagner said that it is essential that the Criminal Code be amended to address the backlog of court proceedings. When will the Liberal government opposite pull

Summarize the discussion about employment and workers'safety.

This section firstly pointed at the employment issues faced during the pandemic. Next, the topic turned to the emergency wage subsidy that was supporting over a 2. 5million workers. The meeting grouped workers in different sectors and discussed them step by step. The listed groups included the students, foreign workers, health care workers, forestry workers, and workers in the oil and gas sector.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that do and want to do.The Chair: Ms. Wagantall, we will start the clock again. You have one minute and 45 seconds remaining. Please proceed.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: If that's the case, is Minister MacAulay aware of the practice of red-flagging veterans'filesHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I'm not aware.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Since the deputy minister has indicated that he runs the department, will the minister ask him for the names of veterans and the dates and the reasons that they are, or have been, red-flagged by VACHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I would certainly ask any veteran or anybody who has a concern to contact my office. I will do anything I can to make sure that the veteransThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Do the most ill and injured still receive from the pension up to $300,000 less for lifeHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, as you know and as the Prime Minister indicated when the pension for life was put in place, it was stated that if anybody receives lessthe Prime Minister himself indicated it quite clearlythat must be adjusted.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: For veterans in similar circumstances, should the date of their application for compensation be a factor in determining whether they're treated equitablyHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Yes, of course, the date is when the compensation would start. Of course, it's very important and very appropriate.The Chair: Now we will proceed to Mr. Lloyd.Mr. Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon RiverParkland, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chair. Retired Major Mark Campbell in my riding of Sturgeon RiverParkland lost both legs in the line of duty in Afghanistan. He is an avid sport shooter, but understandably, due to his disability, he is very limited in the kinds of firearms he can use, and all of these firearms have now been banned under the that treat people who use substances with the dignity they deserve. Madam Chair, this is a complex issue. We're working closely with our partners to make sure that we can prevent more lives from being lost.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for South OkanaganWest Kootenay, Mr. Cannings.Mr. Richard Cannings (South OkanaganWest Kootenay, NDP): Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with the member for SkeenaBulkley Valley. In my riding, Theo's in Penticton is a beloved restaurant. They've been serving great food for 40 years, but now they're struggling, because they don't qualify for the emergency wage subsidy. Why is that The original owners retired last year and sold it to another operator. The new owner can't use a year-to-year comparison to apply for the wage subsidy because he didn't own the restaurant last spring. He is forced to use receipts from January and February, the darkest doldrums of the restaurant year, to compare with the results from May, traditionally one of their best months. Now he has to compete with other local restaurants that can access the subsidy. When will the government fix this inequity and let Theo's compete and surviveHon. Mona Fortier: Madam Chair, the Canada emergency wage subsidy is supporting over 2. 5 million workers across the country. To help even more businesses support their workers and rehire people as they reopen, our government is extending the CEWS, and we will continue to extend the CEWS for an additional 12 weeks to August 29 to ensure that Canadian workers continue to have the support they need during these very difficult times. By extending eligibility, our government is ensuring that more Canadian workers in more sectors have the support they need.Mr. Richard Cannings: The owner just wants to be able wage subsidy program, and this means that 2. 6 million workers are being helped. Businesses are also being helped through the interest-free $40,000 loan they can access through CEBA to help stay afloat and pay their expenses during this crisis. I'm pleased to inform this House that to date more than 669,000The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for St. John's East.Mr. Jack Harris: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for LondonFanshawe. Madam Chair, with so many recent reports and videos of police using force, sometimes deadly force, and violence against indigenous and black people in Canada, I've called for the public safety committee to reconvene. If the members agree, will the minister come to the committee and provide concrete answers as to how the government intends to address racism inherent in Canada's law enforcement, and in particular the RCMPHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank my colleague for the question. It's perhaps the most important one facing Canada today. Madam Chair, indigenous people, black Canadians and other racialized people are far too often experiencing systemic racism and disparate outcomes within the entire criminal justice system. In order to respond appropriately, I think it's necessary to begin by acknowledging the lived experience of people who've known bias and discrimination at the hands of the police and our courts and within our prisons. We remain committed to working with all racialized people and all of the members of this House to ensure that we work toward social justice for all Canadians, and I look forward to discussing the member's motion further with him.Mr. Jack Harris: Will the minister and the government commit to facilitating such a meeting of this committee virtuallyHon. Bill Blair:

What did Hon. Ahmed Hussen think about the summer jobs program when talking about Employment and workers'safety

Hon. Ahmed Hussen appreciated the work of the summer jobs program which can provide both financial resources and necessary experience for young people. Thus the investment of the Canada summer jobs problem would be continued.

to Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is starting to get interesting; the minister is revealing some of these expenses. Could the minister tell us how much the government has spent in the last three monthsHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, I will continue in French by explaining what our government is doing for Canadians and workersThe Chair: Mr. Deltell.Mr. Grard Deltell: Mr. Chair, this is a little bit concerning for all Canadians, because this government cannot say when they will table the economic update, cannot identify how much money they have spent in the last three months and cannot say what is the deficit of Canada. Is somebody in this government running this country correctlyHon. Chrystia Freeland: Mr. Chair, absolutely we are running this country, and we are supporting our economy. In fact, we appreciate that Canada currently is experiencing its greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression. That is why we have devoted nearly 11% of GDP to support Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. I want to assure CanadiansThe Chair: We'll now continue with Ms. Normandin. Ms. Normandin, you have the floor.Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Chair, there are times when Quebec and the provinces are not just two solitudes, but they get along and speak as one, such as when the time comes to tell the government to mind its own business. On reading section91 of the Constitution Act, 1982, which sets out the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government, nowhere do I find that the federal government must meddle by attaching conditions to health transfers. It is Quebec and the provinces that hire the medical personnel, doctors, nurses and caretakers. It is Quebec and the provinces that are responsible for purchasing the necessary equipment. It is Quebec and the provinces that know what is happening and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that ahead, Mr. Lewis.Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Minister, for the answer. The EI system needs to be fixed. Even before the shutdown, the system was deeply flawed. Will this government commit to a complete review and overhaul of the EI systemHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we have been there for Canadian workers. We will continue to make sure that we make the necessary investments in the EI delivery system and modernize it to continue to meetThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Lewis.Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Madam Chair. Small businesses have been hit extremely hard by the COVID-19 shutdown. Many have already been forced into bankruptcy. Much uncertainty lies ahead. As the economy reopens, what is the government doing to help small businesses recoverHon. Mary Ng: Madam Chair, today we are seeing small businesses that have been helped, whether it is getting access to the small business loan, which some are also using in the restart as they are safely restarting, or getting help with their payroll, helping them keep their employeesThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go back to Mr. Lewis.Mr. Chris Lewis: Thank you, Madam Chair. Employees are key to a small business's success. How will the government incentivize workers to return to their jobs when recalledThe Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): The honourable minister can give a brief answer.Hon. Mary Ng: The Canada emergency wage subsidy is an excellent program to help those employees stay employed and for those employers who are looking at rehiring them right now during this restart process.Mr. Chris Lewis: Madam Chair, many of my constituents are in a committed cross-border relationship and have not been able to see their partners in quite some time. The current restrictions are arbitrary. Denmark has found a fair means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASERHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.Mr. James Bezan: I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind scheduleHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement. We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement wage subsidy program, and this means that 2. 6 million workers are being helped. Businesses are also being helped through the interest-free $40,000 loan they can access through CEBA to help stay afloat and pay their expenses during this crisis. I'm pleased to inform this House that to date more than 669,000The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): We will go to the honourable member for St. John's East.Mr. Jack Harris: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for LondonFanshawe. Madam Chair, with so many recent reports and videos of police using force, sometimes deadly force, and violence against indigenous and black people in Canada, I've called for the public safety committee to reconvene. If the members agree, will the minister come to the committee and provide concrete answers as to how the government intends to address racism inherent in Canada's law enforcement, and in particular the RCMPHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank my colleague for the question. It's perhaps the most important one facing Canada today. Madam Chair, indigenous people, black Canadians and other racialized people are far too often experiencing systemic racism and disparate outcomes within the entire criminal justice system. In order to respond appropriately, I think it's necessary to begin by acknowledging the lived experience of people who've known bias and discrimination at the hands of the police and our courts and within our prisons. We remain committed to working with all racialized people and all of the members of this House to ensure that we work toward social justice for all Canadians, and I look forward to discussing the member's motion further with him.Mr. Jack Harris: Will the minister and the government commit to facilitating such a meeting of this committee virtuallyHon. Bill Blair:

How did the Canadian government source much-needed PPE

A made-in-Canada initiative had engaged companies across Canada and they had retooled and scaled up their operations for personal protective equipment. This assisted front-line health care workers.

their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I can assure you that anybody is welcome to enter any discussion on compensation of veterans. We're always open to what we can do in order to make sure that we provide appropriate compensation. I don't think the term would be appropriate, but it would provide some compensation to veterans who truly deserve it. They defend our democracyThe Chair: We'll go back to Ms. Wagantall. Oh, I'm sorryMs. Andranne Larouche: Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. The interpretation hasn't worked for a few interventions. It's difficult to follow the exchange between the hon. member and the minister.The Chair: We're having a problem with the interpretation. Minister and Ms. Wagantall, you are joining us virtually. I'm wondering if you have the right language on at the bottom of your screen. We'll start with that for troubleshooting.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: I have English.The Chair: Very good. Minister MacAulay, what do you haveHon. Lawrence MacAulay: I have English, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Very good. Then we'll check on our side. Ms. Larouche, did I understand correctly that the interpretation didn't work for both speakersMs. Andranne Larouche: The sound didn't allow the interpreters to do their job. It seemed to be a problem with the sound.The Chair: In that case, I would ask both members to maybe put their mike a little bit close to their mouth. We'll see how that works. I'm looking at the screen, and I notice the mike is a little bit far. Could we bend it in a little bit more I appreciate that. Thank you for your patience. We'll give it another try. Ms. Wagantall, please go ahead.Mrs. Cathay means taking our troops out of our long-term care facilities. Minister, is June 26 the hard date for the winding down of Operation LASERHon. Bill Blair: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to clarify for the House. We've been in very extensive discussions with the Province of Quebec, with my counterpart Minister Guilbault, and we are working very diligently to ensure we have a sustained, appropriate response to the request from Quebec for assistance. That response will result in a transition from the currently deployed Canadian Armed Forces to the deployment of paid volunteers, trained personnel who will take on the important role of providing services to those Canadians who need our help in Quebec.Mr. James Bezan: I'll go back to the Minister of National Defence. The Department of National Defence auditors have called out the Liberal government for mismanagement over the $553-billion investment in our Canadian military through the defence policy. Only three people have been assigned to oversee the rollout of this money. This is a $553-billion investment in our armed forces, and only three people are managing it. Could the minister tell us how that is even possible Is this the reason that over 100 projects are currently behind scheduleHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, first of all, I want to highlight the unprecedented investment that we're making in defence. We have conducted internal reviews of our procurement. The report the member opposite is talking about is from the previous year. This is the ongoing work we're doing to make sure that we make procurement better. When it comes to the management of this, it's conducted by me and the minister of procurement. We are working toward making our procurement even better. We have already streamlined some aspects of our procurement Genuis: Mr. Chair, the public can listen to this. I'm sure this exchange will also be available on Google, and the public can draw their own conclusions. We have failures on 5G, failures when it comes to the transport of deadly viruses and failures when it comes to giving over $400 million to the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. It's clear that the Bank of China's investment in Minister Champagne is paying off. It's time for the minister to settle his debt with the Communist government and not settle it on the backs of Canadians. When will the minister be here in the House and answer questions about this mortgageHon. Pablo Rodriguez: My colleague should be cautious with what he is saying in the House, Mr. Chair. This is serious stuff. He should be careful about what he says. The minister is actually working extremely hard for all Canadians and is doing his job correctly, Mr. Chair. We're talking about public information. Once again, let him go to Google and google it. That's it.The Chair: Now we'll go to Mr. Barrett.Mr. Michael Barrett: Canada's ambassador to the United Nations sent a letter last week to all member states of the UN promising that Canada would consider providing more funding for UNRRA, the same UNRRA that is a front for Hamas, which allows weapons of terror to be stored in schools and provides textbooks that call for the destruction of Israel. Do these Liberals have no shame when it comes to their quest for a seat on the UN Security CouncilHon. Mary Ng (Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade): Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the honourable member for that question. We know that at this time Canada must show leadership in the face of global challenges. Wagantall: On a point of order, quite often while I'm trying to speak, there are lots of other voices in the background.The Chair: I would ask everyone to please be on mute, as well as for anyone in the chamber to please refrain from speaking loudly. Just whisper among yourselves if you have something to say. We'll take this one from the top. We have a minute and 45 seconds left. Ms. Wagantall, please proceed with your next question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: You said next question, so we're not going backwards, ChairThe Chair: Did we have an answer from Minister MacAulay No We'll go to Minister MacAulay to finish up the answer. We'll start at 27 seconds, freeze the clock and hear his answer. Then, because of all of the confusion, we'll start at one minute and 45 seconds when we get going again.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Should I repeat the question, sirThe Chair: Please do. The clock is frozen. After we go through the question and the answer, we'll start the clock again. Mr. Wagantall, please repeat the question.Mrs. Cathay Wagantall: Thank you, Chair. In the undisclosed settlement to Sean Bruyea's legal case against Seamus O'Regan and the Liberal government, a joint statement says, Canadians, especially all Veterans and their families, are encouraged to enter the public debate about policies and programs that affect our Veterans and their families. Does Mr. MacAulay agree with this statementHon. Lawrence MacAulay: Mr. Chair, I appreciate my honourable colleague's question and concern. Of course I agree. Anybody is quite open to indicate whatever they wish in order to make sure we provide as appropriate a compensation as possible. You can never totally compensate veterans truly for what they deserve, but we want to make sure we provide the best compensation possible. That's what we will and we'll continue to do more as well.Mr. James Bezan: Minister Sajjan, you've had this report since November of 2019. You've been rolling out this plan since 2017. Only three people are overseeing an expenditure of $553 billion. This is taxpayers'money. Are we going to see more cuts because you have been unable to actually roll out these dollarsHon. Harjit S. Sajjan: Madam Chair, I can assure you we're not going to be cutting. We'll be investing in our defence.The Acting Chair (Mrs. Carol Hughes): Before I go to the next speaker, I want to remind members that they are to address their questions and comments directly through the chair. We will go now to the honourable member for Fort McMurrayCold Lake, Mr. Yurdiga.Mr. David Yurdiga (Fort McMurrayCold Lake, CPC): Madam Chair, the Canada summer jobs program has many challenges. I've seen many indigenous communities in my riding rejected for funding even though they had received funding in previous years. Here are a few examples of communities that were rejected: Beaver Lake Cree Nation, Buffalo Lake Mtis Settlement and the Mtis Nation of Alberta, Region 1. The list goes on. Could the Prime Minister explain why so many indigenous communities have been denied funding from the Canada summer jobs programHon. Ahmed Hussen: Madam Chair, we recognize the important role that the Canada summer jobs program plays in supporting employers and young workers in our community across the country every year. We're working very hard to help employers adapt to the realities of the COVID-19 pandemic and are supporting young Canadians as they begin to look for summer employment. We are introducing increased flexibilities into the Canada summer jobs program to hire youth, while also providing more supports to employers that deliver essential services to Canadians.Mr. David Yurdiga: Madam Chair, that

Summarize the whole meeting.

This was meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Special Committee on the COVD-19 Pandemic. Firstly, members were given the chance to present their petitions. Secondly, the meeting proceeded to statements by some members. The third part, the major section, was the questioning of ministers. These questions were closely related to the Canadian government and society during the pandemic period. To be more specific, they included economic updates, systemic racism, the impact of international affairs, financial issues, the situation of veterans and the disabled, and employment and work situation nationwide.