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https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4325&end=4329 | and kind of transferred that over to the new left | english | 4,325.52 | 4,328.52 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4332&end=4336 | wasn't very popular in the 1950s, | english | 4,332.88 | 4,335.88 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4338&end=4347 | real popular constituencies, a lot of people who supported them. | english | 4,338.52 | 4,346.4 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4346&end=4351 | And so his formula suddenly didn't work in the 1960s. | english | 4,346.4 | 4,350.88 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4354&end=4359 | He seemed much more out of touch with the new generations | english | 4,354.9 | 4,358.52 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4359&end=4364 | Some of it was that he couldn't get out | english | 4,359.44 | 4,363.08 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4363&end=4367 | of a Cold War mentality. | english | 4,363.08 | 4,366.22 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4376&end=4380 | And then I think there was also just a sort of changing | english | 4,376.62 | 4,379.86 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4382&end=4388 | where techniques that were once deemed tolerable | english | 4,382.46 | 4,387.52 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4387&end=4392 | or acceptable, you were really seeing a different set | english | 4,387.6 | 4,391.44 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4395&end=4399 | And so a lot of Hoover's techniques as well | english | 4,395.04 | 4,398.04 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4402&end=4408 | I was gonna ask, what sources gave you like it sounds like he's a very political | english | 4,402.44 | 4,407.92 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4407&end=4415 | person and I'm wondering where you felt like you got the most frank and honest access to | english | 4,407.92 | 4,414.8 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4414&end=4423 | his voice and his thinking and his mind in correspondence or anything else. I think there | english | 4,414.8 | 4,422.56 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4422&end=4426 | are a couple of different things that come to mind. | english | 4,422.56 | 4,425.6 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4425&end=4433 | So one is, are the FBI files themselves, which as I said, have all sorts of problems, right? | english | 4,425.6 | 4,432.12 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4432&end=4439 | They're police files, and so they have certain, you know, obvious biases, et cetera. | english | 4,432.12 | 4,438.68 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4438&end=4446 | They also are often redacted, so you can't find out everything that's in them. | english | 4,438.68 | 4,445.08 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4447&end=4452 | is the FBI's file on the CIA, which | english | 4,447.92 | 4,451.72 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4451&end=4456 | has page after page where they say, dear director, | english | 4,451.72 | 4,455.48 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4460&end=4465 | page after page of redaction. | english | 4,460.88 | 4,464.8 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4468&end=4472 | he believed that no one else would ever have access. | english | 4,468.74 | 4,471.84 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4478&end=4483 | aside from the courts, which occasionally forced | english | 4,478.8 | 4,482.48 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4488&end=4492 | Hoover believed he had total control over those files, and therefore, they're pretty candid in these files, | english | 4,488.32 | 4,491.84 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4491&end=4497 | both about when you read their files on Martin Luther King | english | 4,491.84 | 4,496.56 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4510&end=4517 | And so he's just scrawling all of these often kind | english | 4,510.78 | 4,516.28 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4516&end=4521 | of epithets and his true opinions of many people. | english | 4,516.28 | 4,520.68 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4523&end=4528 | And then the most direct and literal access to his voice | english | 4,523.6 | 4,528 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4534&end=4538 | Lots of their phone conversations are recorded | english | 4,534.08 | 4,537.48 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4539&end=4543 | And they are talking about a vast array of things. | english | 4,539.24 | 4,542.92 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4545&end=4550 | And they're often pretty frank with each other in those. | english | 4,545.68 | 4,549.6 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4549&end=4554 | I'm not sure if you're familiar with the organization that's called The Family. | english | 4,549.6 | 4,553.48 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4556&end=4561 | They claim that Supreme Court justices and senators. | english | 4,556.2 | 4,560.28 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4560&end=4567 | In your research, did you find any connection between Hoover and the family? | english | 4,560.28 | 4,566.48 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4568&end=4572 | And I'm generally familiar with the family | english | 4,568.48 | 4,571.68 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4571&end=4576 | without knowing all of the specifics. | english | 4,571.68 | 4,575.32 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4575&end=4580 | But Hoover's relationship with the right | english | 4,575.32 | 4,579.88 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4581&end=4586 | and with a certain kind of nascent religious right that's | english | 4,581.48 | 4,585.16 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4587&end=4591 | was really interesting to me. | english | 4,587.04 | 4,590.12 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4593&end=4597 | that starts in the 50s and into the 60s | english | 4,593.04 | 4,596.68 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4596&end=4602 | takes aim at federal bureaucrats as the worst people | english | 4,596.68 | 4,601.04 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4601&end=4605 | in the world, is anti-statist in lots of ways, | english | 4,601.04 | 4,604.24 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4604&end=4610 | a kind of Buckley-ite critique of the federal government. | english | 4,604.24 | 4,609.2 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4609&end=4613 | Hoover was always the one federal servant, | english | 4,609.36 | 4,612.44 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4612&end=4616 | lifetime career bureaucrat that they loved. | english | 4,612.44 | 4,615.76 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4615&end=4620 | And one of the places that this emerges pretty dramatically | english | 4,615.76 | 4,619.28 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4628&end=4634 | far-right, kind of grassroots, anti-communist organization | english | 4,628.52 | 4,633.2 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4635&end=4640 | And the John Birch Society loves Hoover. | english | 4,635.88 | 4,639.44 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4650&end=4654 | But Hoover himself was actually pretty skeptical | english | 4,650 | 4,653.2 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4655&end=4660 | because he thought they were extremist, | english | 4,655.72 | 4,659.08 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4665&end=4671 | of his relationship with an organization like the family. | english | 4,665.3 | 4,670.08 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4671&end=4677 | is that Hoover was himself, I think | english | 4,671.86 | 4,676.5 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4676&end=4682 | he considered himself a kind of deeply religious Christian. | english | 4,676.5 | 4,681.7 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4681&end=4687 | He didn't go to church all that often from what I can tell, but he | english | 4,681.7 | 4,686.18 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4686&end=4695 | spoke often, particularly in the 1950s, about the need for religiosity. He had, | english | 4,686.18 | 4,694.64 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4694&end=4699 | you know, send all your children to Sunday school. He had been a Sunday | english | 4,694.64 | 4,698.12 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4698&end=4703 | school teacher. And I think institutionally he then begins to bring | english | 4,698.12 | 4,702.6 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4702&end=4709 | a lot of that into the FBI. So he begins to hire Mormons in much greater numbers | english | 4,702.6 | 4,708.4 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4708&end=4712 | and Catholics in much greater numbers in the 50s and 60s. | english | 4,708.4 | 4,711.92 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4711&end=4716 | And he begins to bring a set of religious rituals, communion | english | 4,711.92 | 4,715.8 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4715&end=4721 | breakfasts, prayer breakfasts into the FBI itself. | english | 4,715.8 | 4,720.56 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4722&end=4729 | some of that similar kind of work within the Bureau itself. | english | 4,722.66 | 4,729 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4729&end=4734 | So it sounds like with the religious part of his life, | english | 4,729 | 4,734 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4738&end=4743 | there's that dichotomy again between what he is portraying | english | 4,738.56 | 4,742.84 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4750&end=4755 | Looking at his photo album and his writings, | english | 4,750.24 | 4,754.04 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4754&end=4760 | the marginalia that you surely poured over for years, | english | 4,754.04 | 4,759.04 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4765&end=4770 | for career advancement, or he was skillful enough | english | 4,765.72 | 4,769.72 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4769&end=4775 | to occupy both spheres and do it to his bureaucratic success? | english | 4,769.72 | 4,774.6 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4776&end=4780 | That's a great question, and I'm not sure I found the final | english | 4,776.76 | 4,779.84 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4784&end=4789 | There is one of my favorite discoveries that helped me get | english | 4,784.76 | 4,788.48 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4788&end=4795 | a little sense of that maybe is that in 1950 he was on vacation with Clyde | english | 4,788.48 | 4,795 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4795&end=4802 | Tolson in Los Angeles and a reporter started following them around. They | english | 4,795 | 4,801.24 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4801&end=4811 | didn't see the reporter but you know they went to the farmer's market together, they went and got ice cream cones together, and then they went to a bookstore, | english | 4,801.24 | 4,810.8 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4810&end=4817 | and this reporter was following them, and the reporter looked at the books that they were buying, | english | 4,810.8 | 4,816.24 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4816&end=4827 | and Tolson was buying a couple of westerns, you know, beach reading, but Hoover was buying two books by a psychoanalyst | english | 4,816.8 | 4,826.2 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4826&end=4832 | named Karen Horne, who was a famous psychoanalyst | english | 4,826.2 | 4,831.08 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4835&end=4841 | And one was called Our Inner Conflict, | english | 4,835.84 | 4,840.56 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4840&end=4845 | and the other was called Self Analysis. | english | 4,840.56 | 4,844.32 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4850&end=4856 | And so in particular, our inner conflict | english | 4,850.72 | 4,855.32 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4858&end=4862 | what it does when your public image | english | 4,858.16 | 4,861.72 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4861&end=4868 | is so radically different from the self that you know. And what | english | 4,861.72 | 4,867.86 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4867&end=4873 | that does to someone to have that kind of radical difference. You're one thing | english | 4,867.86 | 4,872.64 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4872&end=4878 | in public, you're another thing in private, and you have to you have to live | english | 4,872.64 | 4,877.42 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4877&end=4891 | with that. And the premise of that book was that it produced a certain kind of grandiosity, a certain sort of rigidity, and a kind of hyper-policing | english | 4,877.42 | 4,890.92 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4890&end=4895 | of your public image and of those around you, right? | english | 4,890.92 | 4,894.88 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4894&end=4899 | A heightened need for control, et cetera. | english | 4,894.88 | 4,898.08 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4899&end=4903 | So I don't know if we can take this and therefore apply it | english | 4,899.56 | 4,902.88 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4910&end=4914 | that it seemed that he himself was actually | english | 4,910.48 | 4,913.64 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4913&end=4918 | trying to sort out that question in ways that he couldn't speak | english | 4,913.64 | 4,917.96 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4923&end=4929 | I mean, some of it must have had to do with his sexuality. I mean, some of it must have had to do with his sexuality. | english | 4,923.76 | 4,928.28 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4931&end=4936 | So all I can say is that there are glimmers | english | 4,931.88 | 4,935.24 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4937&end=4941 | even if they weren't what God had in mind. | english | 4,937.36 | 4,940.72 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4940&end=4950 | I think it's fascinating that the concept of the deep state is living with us and become | english | 4,940.72 | 4,949.92 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4949&end=4958 | new and it seems like his role in creating what now people think of as the deep state | english | 4,949.92 | 4,957.92 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4957&end=4965 | was so, what do you think about his sort of ongoing legacy, both with the nation and with | english | 4,957.92 | 4,964.76 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4966&end=4970 | So one of the things that's been really fascinating to me | english | 4,966.44 | 4,969.96 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4969&end=4975 | over the last five years, really during the Trump era, | english | 4,969.96 | 4,974.2 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4974&end=4980 | is to see a kind of dramatic reversal in what we got, | english | 4,974.2 | 4,979.8 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4979&end=4985 | really from the end of Hoover's life up until fairly recently, | english | 4,979.8 | 4,984.76 |
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YnFEIDvTvtc?modestbranding=1&loop=1&start=4984&end=4990 | which is a politics in which, in the wake of Hoover's life up until fairly recently, which is politics in which, in the wake of Hoover's death, | english | 4,984.76 | 4,989.32 |