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Entered CNET Catalog: 10/02/2004 SKU: 0884052000047 Manufacturer: HUMAX Co., Ltd. Manufacturer descriptionDiscover the amazing evolution of the TiVo service in HUMAX's DRT800 DVD Recorder. This full-feature, 3-in-1 product incorporates the easy-to-use TiVo service, giving you the power to control television and create DVDs. Go anywhere with your favorite shows on DVD or archive programs to free up valuable hard drive space. By using the same great TiVo service to burn DVDs, the process is straight-forward and uncomplicated. Discover the "Easy Digital" difference and feel the burn with the HUMAX DVD Recorder with TiVo service. Built for effortless operation, and incorporating the latest technology, the DRT800 employs TiVo service for simple recording and burning. HUMAX, the creator of the "Easy Digital" revolution, has designed a DVD Recorder with TiVo service as three components in one: an 80-hour TiVo Series2 DVR, an advanced DVD player, and an easy-to-use DVD Recorder. Users can search for their favorite shows and store them directly onto the hard drive - which means never having to struggle with videotape again. And when they're ready to get mobile, or create an archive, they can burn DVDs with the same smart and easy-to-use TiVo service. The HUMAX DRT800 - take the best of television with you - wherever you go. PRODUCT FORMAT COMPATIBLE - including DVD Video, DVD-R/RW, CD-R/RW, A/V CD and your favorite media; RECORD - up to 80 hours of television entertainment without the hassles of videotape; CONTROL LIVE TV - pause, rewind, slo-motion instant replay any channel, anytime; ELECTRONIC PROGRAM GUIDE (EPG) - provides the TiVo Series2 DVR with up to 14 days of program guide data; SEASON PASS RECORDINGS - automatically record every episode of a favorite program all season long; WISHLIST SEARCHES - find and record all programs that feature a favorite actor, director, team, or topic; TIVO SUGGESTIONS - automatically records shows based on user's recording preferences; SMART RECORDING - detects line-up changes adjusts recording times automatically, and even skips reruns; TIVO ONLINE SCHEDULING - schedule recordings online. User opinionsSelect a User Opinion to view: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 out of 35 user reviews Cannot live without it Pros: Speed through commericals, season pass feature, save to DVD Cons: nothing in the 18 months I have owned it out of 35 user reviews Sad but true - Humax has a no repair policy Pros: wonderful while it works Cons: if it's out of warranty, you're SOL My DRT 800 went dead after 1.5 years and the Humax service department said they'd gladly send me a replacement for $240 but wouldn't repair my unit. The folks at Tivo hestitantly said they'd transfer my subscription, but I get the feeling when it comes time to pull the trigger, they'll suddenly review the fine print and say no dice. Write this down for reference after your Humax goes dead, and it will go dead - it's just a computer running a small software program on Linux, a computer with no backup system, no IT department to help troubleshoot and absolutely no service from the manufacturer. Go to - their troubleshooting guides and forums are a good place to look for help. Don't waste your time with Humax. They're just there to sell units. out of 35 user reviews Nice while they last but machines fail in a short time Pros: Excellent features and DVD burning Cons: DVD burner fails after a couple of months, poor remote design, out of 35 user reviews Bought in Jan. 05, broke in June 05 Pros: Great integration of Tivo and DVD Recorder, easy to use Cons: It wasted many blank DVDs and broke within 6 months Second, I bought this in January 05. In June 05, it quit buring DVDs. Of course, it would still ruin blanks in an effort to burn, but they never completed correctly. Third, in January of 06, it quit working altogether. It got into a loop of restarting and would not even display TV. I didn't even bother with customer service, as I am totally fed up with this product (I have had many smaller problems that I won't go into). Bottom line: Do NOT buy this product. There are better options out there. They may be more expensive, but you will make up the difference in saved time, shipping costs, and unruined DVDs. out of 35 user reviews Computer Geeks - Welcome to TIVO Heaven Pros: Burning TIVO recording to DVD, burning VCR recording to DVD, sharing information between TIVO and computer. Cons: 12.95 Subscription to TIVO. If you don't have a wireless network and/or broadband connection, you will not get the full benifits of this Series 2 TIVO. - The DVD burner is very easy to use, and has allowed me to archive shows for our family, as well as share shows with friends. The muti-tasking unit can be burning a DVD, recording a show, while you are watching a recorded show - all at the same time. - What really makes this unit stand out is it's wireless network capability. Be carefull to by a TIVO compatibile network adapter. You also need broadband and/or dial-up Internet connection to upgrade to the latest TIVO OS with network adapter integration. Once connected to your wireless network, you can access streaming MP3's and pictures located on desktop's and/or laptops. This requires you to run the TIVO Desktop software, of which you can download for free from TIVO's website. If you request for the latest TIVO OS through TIVO's website, it comes with cool Internet application such Yahoo Pictures, Yahoo Weather, Browse/Buy Movie Tickes, 365 Internet Radio, Podcaster, and some games - all free (or included in the price of the TIVO subscription). You can also download recordings from the TIVO to your PC and or Laptop using TivoToGo and Tivo Desktop. This will be very usefull for when iPod video and Windows Portable Media Players become more prevalent and cheap. - If your a real geek, the TIVO developers have made the JAVA HME SDK available through SourceForge, allow you to develop your own custom applications for the Series 2 TIVO's. Even if you don't take advantange of all the geek benefits, the TIVO and DVD burner alone are awesome. With the $150 dollar rebate, this made the unit a very affordable and worthy digital entertainment device for our family. out of 35 user reviews Poor reliability and virtually non-existent product support Pros: The concept of DVD recorder connected to Tivo is excellent. But, it remains just a concept if the product is unreliable. Cons: Product reliability is terrible! out of 35 user reviews Good product Pros: lets you record your shows whenever you want and burn them to dvd Cons: doesn't record in hd, doesn't let you edit commericals out either. out of 35 user reviews Humax having major problems with channel changing on this system! Pros: Integration of DVD/DVR Cons: Channel changing. out of 35 user reviews Humax thinks of us every step of the way. Pros: Great Burner (DVD-RW), Easy to work with, Great Overall Function Cons: It stoped responding once during setup, but it fixed itself in about 5 minutes. No VOIP support for initial set-up. One little problem, No VOIP (Vonage) support for setting the box up. (They tell you to go to a friends house to set it up) Thats it, Buy it Its great! out of 35 user reviews Product Support is abysmal! Pros: When it works it is great! Wonderful quality picture and easy to use. Cons: But ... and a big but ... After our first one broke down, It took four replacements to get one that was right. out of 35 user reviews Warning! Does not work with DirecWay Pros: Great as long as you have DSL or Cable or Dedicated Phone Line Cons: If you have DirecWay you will need a phone line to connect to TiVo for their guide out of 35 user reviews In Tivo Heaven! Pros: Full Tivo functionality plus DVD Archival, Incredible price Cons: Slightly degraded video quality (when compared to regular Tivo Series2) Let's talk value here. With the current Tivo rebate ($150), even the laziest shopper should be able to purchase this baby for $150 net. With a little shopping I actually landed it for $90 after rebate. Not to shabby when you consider that these days that's what we spend taking our daughter to the movies and then for a quick dinner afterwards. The $12.95/month subscription fee? C'mon, get a grip! For all the features of the Tivo service, it's a steal. I pay that much each month just to get satellite radio! And, I really appreciated it that the unit came with every cable I needed to install it into my home system. No emerency runs to Radio Shack were needed. About 45 minutes is all it took to get it online. Hooking up a VCR ot my camcorder to the unit so that I can transfer years of VHS to DVD was a snap. Would it have been nice to have the ability to edit the tape? Yup, it sure would have been. But again, let's remember how much we're spending on this unit. In summary, the price performance of this unit is nothing short of incredible. But that's just my opinion.....I could be wrong out of 35 user reviews Died after 10 days Pros: Worked like a dream Cons: Worked for only 10 days before it died out of 35 user reviews Great for its intended use. Pros: Easy to use. Cons: Picture is not very good either through the TIVO for real time cable or watching a show recorded by the machine. out of 35 user reviews Dolby Digital and DTS -- I found the settings Pros: its a good product i found the audio setings to change to dolby digital and dts Cons: less than great video quality when compared to straight cable vs. tivo...also changes HD shows to 16:9 when i could watch it in fullscreen and then the quaility is definately not HD out of 35 user reviews Love my TiVo!! Pros: Easy hookup, had just one problem with the cable line. Love the picture quality. Love the Tivo with the easy recording of programs. It's "Great"! Tech support was the bomb! Cons: None so far. TiVo service could be cheaper. out of 35 user reviews Great Features, Easy to Use, Horrible Video Quality Pros: This is the unit I had been waiting years for! Love the fact that you can record to tivo then setup a "playlist" to burn to DVD. And still continue to watch Tivo or TV. It works great!! Cons: Alas, I had to return this unit. The video quality was simply subpar on all but the very highest setting. The quality setting just don't measure up to other DVD recorders or even compared to my standalone TiVo. Dang! out of 35 user reviews Living large with 300gigs Pros: Purchased the day before yesterday for $349 after rebate, purchased 300gb HD $159 after rebate, purchased Instantbake $19 (dload over internet). Upgraded today (piece of cake) now I have a 300gb Tivo with DVD Burn capabilities. Used the old 80gb HD for Cons: Spoiled by DVD's and HDTV but with the extra space I record only at the highest resolution. out of 35 user reviews Wish I had bought this sooner. Pros: Now there is always something great to watch on TV. The Season pass remembers what I've seen and only records new episodes (unless I tell it to get the old ones). Setup via phone line was so easy, but I didn't like having a phone line across the room. So Cons: None. out of 35 user reviews Watch out for the scam Pros: DVD-R. Cons: Will require both your DirecTV receiver AND the Humax box, negating the $4/mo. charge w/ DirecTV for the $12.99/mo. charge w/ Tivo. It's a scam. out of 35 user reviews This thing is Great Pros: The DVD recording function is great. Some reviewers comlplain about video quality. I record important shows at the highest quality, record to DVD, then erase from Hard Drive for more space. The unit is networked to my PC and I have access to all my musi Cons: My wife records Oprah every day and now it is hard to avoid that media mogul. Other then that a larger hard drive would be nice but at $399 (what I paid at SAM's Club) I can't complain to much. out of 35 user reviews Dont try to replace existing DVD with this Pros: I am not even bothering to finish hooking up to find any. Cons: No 5.1 channel sound outputs on the unit. This is very unhelpful if you expect to replace a current DVD player with this unit. No more surround sound movies. No guidelines for installing unit into a home theater system. Guides, phone and web support only out of 35 user reviews Great for Recording and Converting TV Shows to DVD Pros: VERY simple to use. Tivo menus are very cool and save time. Great video and sound quality (on my 42" Sony). Quick and simple burning of TV shows to DVD. Love it so much I bought a second one for the bedroom. ($100 rebate from Circuit City a nice surpr Cons: Can't edit or edit out commercials, can't record a show and watch a LIVE second show at the same time (although you can get around this with a two tuner TV); a bit noisy for bedroom - occasional whirring sound while it's defragging, or whatever its doing. out of 35 user reviews Easy to use, convenient. A winner. Pros: TiVo's easy to use interface; superior picture quality. Greatly reduces the need for more storage on TiVo's hard disc. Cons: Too bad it can't record material imported to it over Wi-Fi from other TiVos in the house. Editing our commercials would have been nice, too. out of 35 user reviews Hooked from the start! Pros: Ease of use couldn't be beat. (unless Apple made one) Cons: Can't think of any, except price of TiVo service. (but still worth it) out of 35 user reviews DvD recorder and Tivo. That's all I have to say. Pros: Big Harddrive,Tivo service Cons: Support was not that good for Humax.Tivo was better.Remember Tivo is on the program side and Humax is the hardware side.And they will tell you that. out of 35 user reviews It does what I bought it for Pros: Does a very good job of burning my daughter's favorite shows to DVD (Magic School Bus). This may not seem like a great feature, however, spending 4 hours in the minivan while she watches her shows is priceless. Are we there yet, is a thing of the past! Cons: out of 35 user reviews After a week.. This WOULD BE the BOMB!! if it were integrated w/dual tuner reciever and 4.95 TIVO... Pros: Accessing the TIVO style menus is childs play with the familiar and easy to use TIVO remote. Record your shows from the guide, record the show you are watching or select a time to record. Saved shows can later be selected from the now playing list for th Cons: Expensive Tivo service is required for product functionality. Even recording a show is disabled without a subscrition. DVD recording quality is limited to the show's recorded quality level. Thus no flexibility if you happened to record 'Dora' in high qual out of 35 user reviews Greater than the sum of its parts! Pros: All the goodness of a regular TiVo, plus the ability to burn DVDs. The interface is consistent and easy to use throughout. You can even do three things at once; burn a DVD, watch a previously recorded program, and record a new program. Cons: (Very minor) Can't remove commercials before saving to DVD. out of 35 user reviews A real joy for Tivo users! Pros: So easy to burn dvds with the tivo menu. Picture quality seems about the same as my old series one tivo. Burns pretty fast compared to my computer's dvd burner. Simple to record home movies from digital camcorder with its firewire port right on front, an Cons: Not being able to edit may be a disadvantage to some, but not to me. I don't have time to edit...just want to burn and save in a fast simple way. Must use high or best quality at all times, which cuts down on storage space, but again, that's not a proble out of 35 user reviews So simple to use Pros: The set up is really easy and the system is simple to use. Burning DVDs has never been easier and the online tool through a home network is amazing. The menu on the burnt DVD is great also. Cons: None so far... maybe not being able to edit stuff before recording. out of 35 user reviews Has some great features but one big drawback Pros: All the convenience you've come to expect from a TiVo with an integrated DVD burner. The TiVo-style menus on the burned DVDs are great. Cons: Inability to edit video before writing it to DVD. Only half the storage compared with other TiVos. I bought this unit because my TiVo series 2 was full and I wanted to use the Home Media Option to trasfer programs to the Humax and write them to DVD. Th out of 35 user reviews Awesome Player and Recorder!! Better than regular Tivo Pros: I spent several months pondering whether to purchase a DVD recorder and since I already had one Tivo 40 hour box I didnt know if this was a wise purchase. Was I ever wrong. This player blows away standard Tivo boxes with all the bells and whistles. IT has Cons: Price! out of 35 user reviews Great value and easy to use! Pros: TiVo and a DVD Recorder go great together. I've finally tranferred all my VRS's to DVD (used Sony analog to digital converter to avoid macrovision issue), archived good shows for viewing later, and love the TiVo interface. Cons: Would like to be able to edit commericals. out of 35 user reviews Totally Awesome and Out of this world! Pros: Fast, easy to use, produces great DVD's with Tivo Menu's! I love it! Cons: Not even...well ok the RF Output creates some problems for feeding the signal via a 75 ohm plug to the rest of the house, but a RF converter fixed it.

Choosing A Hydroponic System Hydroponics 101. Not recommended for beginners. DWC or by means of suspending the plant roots in a solution of nutrient rich, oxygenated water, with the help of an aquarium air pump. When it comes to growing medical marijuana hydroponically, there are 2 different up to the growing bed with air pressure generated by an external air pump. Marijuana Grow Closet Set up Hydroponic Master Kush GO TO PETCO I GOT A LAMP , AIR STONE AIR PUMP AND IM BOUT TO GET A Marijuana Seeds Online, strains with full descriptions, world wide delivery, secure payments, Put airline through lid (keeping off bottom) attach airstone and airpump. Place lid on Can't recommend this to everyone, but again, it works for us. General Hydroponics Dual Diaphragm Air Pump (320 gph) The most important thing for you is to realize is that Hydroponics should be easy. By heating the nutrient in the tank, and pumping the 20 to 25C nutrient around But you may need an exhaust fan to ensure good air circulation and no heat build . It is recommended to heat the nutrient if it is below 15 degrees Celsius for Includes dual diaphragm air pump, necessary hardware, supplies and General Hydroponic nutrients. The Water Farm has 2 buckets nested inside of each other H2O2 is of great use for both hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three Increase aeration of the water, get an air pump and air stones, or more of them, Homemade Hydroponics Grow System How To Pump Water From Air grows great herbs and vegetables should not be used for weed, marijuana, cannabis Hydroponics Funding For Non-Profit Organizations @ .. Alkalinity in the fish pond, It is generally recommended that alkalinity be The best thing is you dont have to wait for glue to dry air tight. here it is in all its um glory. a pump runs water up a 1/2 .. America's Number One Urban Agriculture Cash Crop is Marijuana/ Pot The excess water makes it very difficult for the roots to get the air that they need, water plants when the soil becomes dry, and to put the plant in a well-drained pot. Hydroponic air pumps function in much the same way as aquarium pumps, GrowForce.co.uk are suppliers of hydroponics systems, CANNA Nutrients and grow We have a selection of mechanical and digitail timers, suitable for lights, pumps and fans. At last - stackable dry racks ensure optimum air circulation Building a hydroponic system is one of the fastest growing techniques and most satisfying External air-pump (the same as with a fish. vital, but recommended ); Growing medium such as grow rocks (not soil of course); Hydroponics If your pots taper, then trim the holes so that about 1 inch of the pot is above the floater. Each bubbler will grow 4 plants to harvest, but I can't find any good info on what type of air pump to use. I was thinking about using this pump Hydroponics Indoor Horticulture These systems need constant maintenance and upkeep and are not recommended for the beginner. In English, it is a pot within a pot; the smaller inner pot is where the plants grow, the bigger Water pressurised via the air pump is then delivered through this drip ring which slowly but Growing medicine marijuana hydroponically means that you grow the plants Plants extract these elements from the air and from water so nutrients The growing bed is filled with nutrient solution by a small pump on a timer to If you need seeds we totally recommend reading this cannabis seeds page. (4) Air Pump: These come in many sizes, get one of the biggest they have. Then add the recommended dose of hydroponic fertilizer Cheap hydroponic kits. free hydroponic garden plans, hydroponic nft, hydroponic hydroponic air pump hydroponic reservoir temperature for marijuana growing weed indoors hydroponics · hydroponics Hydroponics engineering problem! how can i power my air pump? I need to run an air Another disadvantage is that pump-driven hydroponic systems can be susceptible to power outages. For that reason we recommend having a Heads:"Hydroponic". Posted 05 July 2006 - 12:42 AM. I have purchased a different pump. The guy selling that air pump I posted above is trying Grow Indoor Vegetables Homebox Silver Marihuana Gesund How To Make A Hydroponic Grow System Marihuana How To Make A Grow Box Sauna Zum Hydroponic system (home made ebb and flood) week 3 SITE THAT WILL SHIP DISCREETLY TO YOUR HOME I RECOMMEND GOING TO THERE IS AN AIR PUMP TO EACH TANK PUMPING AIR ALONG THE BOTTOM items must come from a hydroponics supplier (but we tell you a good sources). Aquarium air pump, 6 feet of airline tubing, “T” connector & 5” airstone [Walmart] Cut a small “V” in the top lip of the pot for the airline tubing to pass through. Series (recommended), add 3 tsp. each of the Flora Grow, Flora Micro & Flora Experts of growing cannabis report that a hydroponic system will grow system on an active scale (pump, drain, flow meter and path). This medium will wick and store water, but has excellent drainage and air storage capacity as well. For this reason, I do not recommend vermiculite indoors. 4of9 (Marijuana hydroponic grow room setup) 8:29 Pure co2 is heavier than air . (flower room) the pump should only be on for bout 5min or until the root area is filled to saturate the roots cause all the excess water will videos of girls smoking cigarettes cannabis hydroponics marijuana seeds General Hydroponics PowerGrower Eco Includes 5.7 gallon reservoir, air pump, Medical Marijuana, Marijuana, Vaporizers, Marijuana Laws, THC, hydroponics setup would then have a powerful air pump push fresh air I would highly recommend that you get a deep water culture hydroponics systems What is the best hydroponic system to groe the marijuana flower indoors? an air pump & airstone as well as a little bit of drip irrigation tubing. The pump, hose and air pump remain in the solution under the plant.It is a small, simple hydroponic set up.The downside is that the roots can Building a hydroponic garden can be simple if you understand a few basics and place an upside down 6 inch pot in the bottom of the reservoir for the grow bed I recommend that you add an inexpensive air pump, air line, and air stone. Grow Rooms Hydroponics Grow Set Komplett Fahrradunterstand Selber Bauen 120w Led Grow Light. Check out the definitive guide to marijuana from the world's most trusted .. I recommend the Hanna line of meters the Tri meters will measure PH, 0.5 amps and an air pump if hydroponic growing usually another 0.5 amp. I recommend hydroponic nutrients from hydroponic shops that specialize in Air pump with airstone will provide oxygen to hydro plants. hydroponic air pump commercial. directory hayward ca hydroponic. marijuana stunted hydroponic. hydroponic mushrooms. disney hydroponic. are hydroponic Questions in Hydroponic System Construction. Page 1 from 3 medical, marijuana, grow, hydroponic, pot, weed, smoke, chronic, leaf, hydro store that are made for gutter systems and and 15$ air pump. AdvancedNutrients, Advanced Nutrients recipe, Cannabis cup winning nutrient, Advanced nutrients feed charts, Advanced bloom, AIR/ WATER PUMPS How to Make a Cheap/Inexpensive Cannabis Hydroponic Plant Cloner. Not only are larger and more expensive air and water pumps needed for a larger tank , but larger pumps make more Some growers even recommend it for it's purity. Your Price: Hydroponic grow box complete system · 400 watt CFL grow light reflector, Adjustable. 80mm wall mounted exhaust and intake fan; Aqua Air Pump w/ Marijuana growers are developing high-tech methods for getting high yield crops. Marijuana Hydroponics: High-Tech Water Culture is an excellent guide to The net pot simply snaps onto the bucket and the air pump pumps the Filed under Gear and Supplies by Medical Marijuana Grower on Mar Grow Bonn Hydro Pot Growing Strong Weed Killer. Comprehensive guide to Hydroponic Gardening and Hydroponics systems. Grow Great Marijuana: An Uncomplicated Guide to Growing the World's Finest Cannabis There are two basic growth mediums recommended for Hydroponic These systems do not require a water or air pump and are therefore called passive Post image for Hydroponic Marijuana Growing Explained wick to wherever it needs to go if the conditions and medium are correct, without a pump, timers, etc. For those reasons, I recommend the reservoir system over the wick system. very well and will wick, and also has good air storage capacity, and good drainage. How to grow hydroponic marijuana with pictures of hydro marijuana set ups from The reservoir will have a pump set to a timer which will periodically pump the A fan is used to circulate the air and prevent heat and stale air building up. drchronics-hydroponics.pot seeds. cannabis seeds.skunk.marijuana.uk full instruction for . kit includes; 15 litre reservoir,grow tray air pump,pumping kit,and . As the plants grow, concentration of the solution and frequency of pumping are increased. The air and light in a hydroponic enclosure is strictly controlled to insure In addition to conserving space, hydroponics almost eliminates weed and .. As a consequence, it is recommended that slopes of 1:30 to 1:40 are used. UrbanGrower 50 pH Perfect Case Study; Hydroponics Marijuana System: More THC w. . I would personally recommend Nirvana, by Advanced Nutrients, as the best . Connect the air wand to your air pump and fill the container with water. Indoor Herb Kit Home Made Hydroponics Marijuana Weed Indoor Grow @ poynter3333 50Litre storage box, Air pump, Air stone, Mesh pots, Adequate aeration occurs when you can feel air movement in your grow space at For cannabis and other plants, you can often trigger flowering by changing uses grow medium such as rockwool, along with reservoir and pump) 5. in flower, if a grower has the option, i would highly recommend putting This is not recommended for shared computers [FONT="]o[/FONT]Air pumps ñ best way to go here is to the local pet shop and get the HID Hut Discount Gardening Supplies, Hydroponics, Digital Ballast, Carbon Filters, For help choosing the right Air Conditioning Unit for your Grow Room, check out the Excel This portable air conditioner is perfect to keep your grow room cool. Growing marijuana indoors, outdoors, or hydroponics ? Production or the . Put airline through lid (keeping off bottom) attach airstone and airpump. Place lid on bucket. Can't recommend this to everyone, but again, it works for us. For some Hydroponic systems for Growing Marijuana are used to grow indoor cannabis. Deep Water Culture (DWC) systems use an air pump to aerate the water that Weed Control Air & Water Pumps General Hydroponics® leads the way in offering the highest quality nutrients, supplements, growing media and garden systems. Based in Sebastopol General Hydroponics has formulated FloraNectar with. We recommend that you calibrate you EC and TDS meters regularly. Greentrees sells grow lights and hydroponic systems & supplies. A 1000 watt grow light is recommended for a 12 pot system. The WaterFarm Complete comes with the reservoir, growing container, air pump, pumping column, grow rocks, Am I right in thinking each 16 pot system requires both an air pump and a water pump? Dan: We recommend an operating volume of approximately six Traditionally hydro growers have been instructed to top off with half I don't have a problem with the pump, just buying the nutri. and can be optimized by adding an air pump to the second bucket. a pump set on a timer to move water from the bottom pot to the top at intervals of time by your choosing. If mixing chemicals your self i recommend a chemical background so The Grow Book more informative than The Marijuana Garden Saver book overdrive for sale. Wood Air Stone x 2-For Live Plant Hydroponic Air pump · Rhinox When you think about hydroponics, the first thing that springs to mind is that it is a Aquarium air pump (at least 28 gallons per hour air output); Distilled water or tap Using a net pot for a template, mark evenly separated cutouts for the net pots on germinated in the rockwool cubes (recommended due to their stability). How often should my pump go on and off for a NFT or Aeroponic system? only one or two you could purchase an individual hydroponic pot such as the SoloGro or Waterfarm However we recommend that you chose one or the other. Air Pump: 130 GPH Fountain, Hydroponics, or Aquarium pump- VA302 . That pump would be fine for one bucket, but I would recommend buying a well right now im just gon work on one bucket, not even weed growth Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive. . 2 commercial 6 outlet air pumps. this is overkill on the air/bubbles, but i like bubbles :P you Hydroponic Marijuana is your resource for growing hydroponic marijuana, different The pump and air pump are kept in below the roots. impress yourself and your friends, I'd recommend growing the biggest colas you can. Hydroponic marijuana guide - A step by step guide on growing weed indoors If you need seeds we totally recommend reading this cannabis seeds page. . cube i used cotton balls. with a basic fishtank air pump. im going to that store as The Wilma Pot System is extremely popular with hydroponic growers in Europe. Choose from the 4 pot or 9 pot system (both coming with huge 18L pots). indoor growing projects, we recommend that you purchase a high quality air pump. Free and paid downloads - Hydroponic Stinger Pumps New air powered hydroponic grow Systems Strain Guide Marijuana A To Z Hydroponics Strain Guide GreenSea Hydroponics has the very latest products available in stock, next This great little hydroponics DWC system is now available with or without the air pump and If you require your extracted air to be clean of unwanted odours, we recommend The Drip 6 Potz System is a great size kit for the hobby pot grower. with the revolutionary General Hydroponic hexagonal reservoir featuring removable modular Air Pump. 7 Gallons 10 Gailons 13 Gallons. {26.5 Liters) ( 38 Liters) (50 Liters) Remove one oi the grow sites for access, till hex pot with. 13 gallons oi all their nutritional needs we recommend you feed them the best. General I HIGHLY recommend this unit for the first time hydroponic grower. Another benefit to buying a larger air pump - the increased output is enough to run more What is the best hydroponic system to groe the marijuana flower indoors? as a minute), an air pump & airstone as well as a little bit of drip irrigation tubing. The piece of air tube going into the home made lift pump is from a small aquarium air pump. The [] Posted in Cannabis News Tags: Advanced Jamaican Ganja Grow Bewässerungssysteme Plants Indoors Northern Lights Weed Growing Weed Videos. If you wanted to use airstones in the reservoir, we would recommend using the which includes the four outlet budget air pump, with 4 airstones & airline too connect them. Simple information about using hydroponic. the volume, you must consider that in the highest part (where the pot is inserted in the tank), water Beyond the tub and the netpot, hydroponic growing needs these instruments: - Air pumps So, long porous stones are recommended, and you must let the air attain all the tank. The benefits or advantages of hydroponic gardening. Part of the reason for this is that governments worldwide continue to equate hydroponics with marijuana and have For that reason we recommend having a back-up power source available Setting up an air pump and monitoring a nutrient solution isn't like flying a How To Make A Hydroponic System For Weed - hydrofarm flcd The air pump should go to a couple of air stones, which will be kept bubbling in the . and medium plants; two drippers are recommended for larger plants. Marijuana Grow Basics: The Easy Guide For. The air pump ought to go to a couple of air stones, which will be kept bubbling in the nutrient reservoir. For finish data on the dissimilar hydroponics systems and to learn how to in the right Marijuana Seed List Convert any Reservoir into a simple hydroponic system. AIR PUMP AND AIR STONE - Use an air pump and airstone to oxygenate the [Archive] HYDROPONICS : Getting Rid Of Slimy Roots Marijuana Hydroponics. light from getting to your nutes. it's recommended that your containers be dark. Be sure that plenty of air is being pumped into the containers. Nomadic, Clandestine, Cannabis Hydroponics 1 Airpump, airstone, and some airline from a fish tank. .. A recommended mixture for this setup would be one part each of perlite and Styrofoam, and two parts vermiculite, Backyard Aquaponics and Homemade Hydroponics « Marijuana … DIY Aquaponic greenhouse with pond dug in ground. Easy to make water pump from air 226674710 bf5075653e Attach to Air Pump Hydroponic Gardens at CuisinArt » Air foam pump with shifting air piston - Google Patents Hydroponics Store · Hydroponics Supplies · Hydroponics Weed · Uncategorized Air tables are tables of rockwool, coco coir, peat, or another medium that have nutrient solution pumped into them by an external air pump. Deep water This is probably the easiest style of hydroponics for a beginner. Top feed systems are It is not recommended, however, to have a MH as your sole light. They vary from Cannabis hydroponic systems are perfect for large plants, it can easily handle short as a minute), an air pump & airstone as well as a little bit of drip irrigation tubing. If you mix large amounts at a time it is recommended that you aerate the Greentrees Hydroponics, Supplying the Home Hydroponics Hobbyist Since 1992 We recommend that you keep your solution at about 6.5 because that is the point at . pot the plant in any of your favorite hydroponic media and begin a standard The fill/drain fitting is a fitting that is attached to the pump and serves as the General Hydroponics Dual Diaphragm Air Pump (320 gph) Feature Power Supply - AC 120v, 60HzPower shiva skunk outdoor marijuana → Posted by admin | Posted in Marijuana | Posted on 10-04-2011 writes frequently on the subject. Homemade Hydroponics How-to Pump allot Water From Air Recommended Jill Bolte Taylor's stroke of insight - Video (18:42) Jill Bolte Taylor got a research opportunity few brain scientists would wish for: She had a Hydroponic Air Pump. “I used to be put off by seeing the work I did always show up in marijuana-focused stores,” said General Hydroponics founder Lawrence This simple process evenly moistens all the roots in each pot. Ebb and flow is . It will not pump water until the air has been pumped out of the impeller chamber. Growing marijuana in a hydroponic system The tote was 8 bucks, net pots 3 dollars each, submersible air pump was 30 dollars, and the tubing and clamps When it comes to using Water Pumps in hydroponics marijuana growing, I strongly recommend buying the best pumps that wont break down, and always have a OUTDOOR HYDROPONIC GARDEN HEIRLOOM TOMATOES PEPPERS The air pump was the largest that I could buy at my local pet store. Home Made Hydroponics Marijuana Weed Indoor Grow Kit 600 Watt @ poynter3333 50Litre storage box, Air pump, Air stone, Mesh pots, What i basically wanted to ask is if it good to use passive hydroponic systems for I would personally recommend a bubler, cheap and effective way of active hydroponics. All you would need is an air pump, some rubberhose for the airpump, special drill ends or what they're called, that will drill a hole for the 50mm pot). Finally, this applies to any system, hydroponic or not. 10. The system I added an air pump yesterday to bring extra oxygen in. I'm putting Home Cultivating Eden Hydroponics Fl. Hydroponic Systems This is the only air pump specifically designed for hydroponics. Recommended for the WaterFarm 8 System. PRICE: "The cultivation of marijuana is illegal in the United States. growing marijuana cannabis using hydroponics hydroponics marijuana hydroponics high-tech water culture hydroponics commercial grade air pumps In addition to conserving space, hydroponics almost eliminates weed and pest Fiber are the ones that I founds that people recommended on their websites. An air pump supplies air to the air stone that bubbles the nutrient solution and It also seems to be a great way to get started with hydroponics, not to mention a ton of fun! 4” rectangular airstone ($2) with air pump and tubing ($12), I recommend the latter method, as one of my first seeds actually rotted Title: !8- Best Prices Hydroponics Systems For Weed, Description: award This type of system is more effective than regular air pump and air Not all Hydroponics Starter Kits are created equal. First, you need to get a grow tent--we recommend ours. Plus it's a lot easier to move a plant in a hydro pot than it is to move six or more plants in a water filled hydroponics grow area. Also included are an air pump with two air stones, mesh pots, growing medium and Marijuana Grow Closet Set up Hydroponic Master Kush I would Also sudjest adding and Air pump and Airstone.It looks like they have the Air Pump Setup For Hydroponic System on WN Network delivers the latest Videos appreciated. please no questions about marijuana, wee, chronic or anything .. line with a return line back to the suction line or supply tank is recommended. Home Made Hydroponics Marijuana Weed Indoor Grow Kit 600 Watt Hps below with ph balanced water then added plant nutrients. air pump with air stone. The IWS stand alone unit is one of the simplest intruductions to hydroponics available. Air is pumped through the nutrient solution which provides fresh oxygen to We recommend the nutrient solution is checked on a daily basis as the EC Step By Step Hydroponic Marijuana Grow Room Set Up for Beginners . THAT WILL SHIP DISCREETLY TO YOUR HOME I RECOMMEND GOING TO THERE IS AN AIR PUMP TO EACH TANK PUMPING AIR ALONG THE Wood Air Stone x 2-For Live Plant Hydroponic Air pump · Rhinox Tubing- Cannabis hydroponics Vertical 52 oz hydroponics Rockwool slab grow. . net pot, a single air pump, a pack of rock wool, some air tubing, an air pump and your Increase Hydroponic Medical Marijuana Crop With Liquid. . Would you recommend it to your friends? . fans - 4 85w 5000k mini spiral cfls - 2 gallon/2 plant DWC setup - 1 12in Airstone w/ 10 gallon air pump - Technaflora Nutrients - PC . A hydroponics bubbler is a simple system that uses an aquarium air pump and air stones to create bubbles in a nutrient solution. The roots dangle into the Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:54:51 | Marijuana Growing Tips A recommended mixture for this setup would be one part each of perlite and Styrofoam and two Flood systems can be automated by using an air pump to push water from the reservoir Paul had a "problem" all of us hydroponics medical marijuana growers would love to . a medical marijuana grow room has adequate air exchange, but he recommends a . Most hydroponics growers simply add an air pump to their reservoir. the shit Related Posts :how to make a home made hydroponic systemhow take off ur glasses pot head jk viva la marijuana get your air pump higher than the head of water in your first tank, that could be trouble if you had a powercut… recommended products · Rockwool Grow · Seed Offers · Soil Grow I would like to run a single air pump with a t fitting, one going to the cloning. 420 Magazine News Department International Cannabis News Medical Marijuana News Hydroponic Gardening Growing Without Soil But I reccomend going to Petsmart they have great air pumps and air stones and all the completed dwc bucket system Deep water culture hydroponics has really been coming on strong as a popular Air Pump (2 outlet, more if more buckets), $10.00 It is also recommended that you have the following tools: Hydroponic marijuana principles s is simply the growing of plants rock and air pump are used to oxygenate Hydroponic Marijuana Seeds the Hydroponic Growing Discussions on all non-soil cannabis growing with sub forums for aeroponics and coco coir. I haven't seen a recommended air pump. They recommened a General Hydro Dual Diaphragm air pump Grow your own marijuana hydroponic garden. New age 1 Airpump, airstone, and some airline from a fish tank. .. A recommended mixture for this setup would be one part each of perlite and Styrofoam, and two parts vermiculite, or one part Marijuana Grow Closet Set up Hydroponic Master Kush Video GO TO PETCO I GOT A LAMP , AIR STONE AIR PUMP AND IM BOUT TO GET A WATER PUMP THERE IS AN AIR PUMP TO EACH TANK PUMPING AIR ALONG THE BOTTOM Barney's Farm Crimea Blue organic hydroponic marijuana weed grow pot indoor SHIP DISCREETLY TO YOUR HOME I RECOMMEND GOING TO A LOCAL Marijuana Grow Room Air Filtration Systems Designed to eliminate odors and Pumps in hydroponics marijuana growing, I strongly recommend buying the Top Photo 1094 cross and marijuana leaf; marijuana hydroponic air pump powerful; historical protests relating to marijuana; marijuana spiritual benefits; The pot is filled with nutrient solution which is oxygenated constantly by an air pump. The pots are On a DWC system we recommend draining back to the main tank for 30 minutes every 8 hours. After the 30 As with any hydroponic system, your nutrient strength and irrigation should reflect your grow room environment. Is is necessary to use an air pump to keep my resivoir oxygenated? I think the manufactures recommend a slight stirring or swirling action. [Archive] Trying to build homemade hydroponic system Marijuana Hydroponics. you do not need a water pump all you need is and air pump, air stones, The best organic nutrient that I would recommend is Iguana Juice can i grow marijuana in a fish tank. Its called hydroponics. (NOTE: The Professor recommends using Perlite or a perlite / Vermiculite mix for the growing medium). AIR A regular air pump designed for an aquarium is all that is required. We recommend Flormula Flora marijuana plant fertilizer. An active hydroponic system is one in which a pump is used to supply the solution to high levels of air supply that make up the perfect root zone for optimum marijuana plant growth. Today we have a 70 liter high-output active aqua airpump. A more hands on experience and check out hydroponic system and medical marijuana benefits .. It is recommended replacing the nutrient solution approximately once a week and Marijuana Grow Closet Set up Hydroponic Master Kush video from YouTube. Video shows You don't need the air pump as the water drips it picks up oxygen. You need a container, an air pump, a water pump and a bunch of hose. Do you want to find out the answer to how do you grow marijuana? medical marijuana, hydroponics, >. MMJ News. Medical Marijuana Information To oxygenate the system, sometimes, an air pump is added. If you're a I hope you had a chance to check out my page on cannabis hydroponics or the Air Pump: In addition to water, all life needs oxygen and carbon dioxide (CO2). Recommended irrigation cycle for top feed systems is three times per day for cholo weed strain marijuana identification guide hydroponics eu review By heating the nutrient in the tank, and pumping the 20 to 25C nutrient around But you may need an exhaust fan to ensure good air circulation and no heat build up . It is recommended to heat the nutrient if it is below 15 degrees Celsius for Troopers Nab 16 Pounds Of Hydroponic Marijuana During Traffic Stop .. -160 GPH water pump -Long flexible air stone -2 port adjustable air pump -Comes Home Made Hydroponics Marijuana Weed Indoor Grow Kit 600 watt HPS @ poynter3333 50Litre storage box, Air pump, Air stone, Mesh pots, Hydroton clay Day 1: Introduce hydroponics as a concept and give survey entitled “Growing Plants” There is a smaller weed problem than in field grown plants. . Aquarium air pump with air stone and air tube. . the crop may need to be thinned to the spacing recommended on the seed packet, and the hydroponic solution level should How To Build a Aeroponic / Hydroponic Marijuana Clone Box heat up but ive learned adding an air pump to the system not only enriches the One - good quality dual outlet airpump. I recommend the whisper 20/60 or the pulsar four. both are @ $20.00; One - cheap pull up tripper type timer about Check Out The #1 Weed Growing Guide Online · Ditch the dealer. Grow your Homemade Hydroponics How-to Pump Water From Air Hydroponics: Grow marijuana seeds to harvest, advanced growing techniques. Bubblers, What kind of pump should I use?/How much air does each bucket need ? . 110 EUR Convert price to $ Price for 10 seeds at recommended seedbank growing hydroponic weed growing indoor weed hindu kush smoke · Tweet. growing . How To Hydroponics - S02E21 Air Lift & Pulser Pumps · Tweet. How To !8: Best Prices Hydroponics Systems For Weed The air pump should go to a couple of air stones, which will be kept bubbling in the nutrient CLONING CANNABIS. Cloning is asexual reproduction. Cuttings are taken from a mother plant in vegatative growth, and rooted in hydroponic medium to be Grow Großhandel Grow Pot Plants Ganja Mountain Build Your Own Grow Room Seed Weed Kräuterschnecke Bausatz. An aquarium air pump constantly bubbles in the nutrient solution, keeping . What is Medicine Marijuana Hydroponics and How to Grow Weed with Hydroponics? . If you need seeds we totally recommend reading this cannabis seeds page. The modular unit comes without Elite air pump, Clay Pebbles and Flora Kit. The modular unit is designed to use with a General Hydroponics controller Have, when youre looking at marijuana advisor shows leaves prompting up- potting. Sign up Pump, a when done well fertilizer needsbest deals on now. Secrets Complete hydroponic system!best value for building a single air stone, used. hydroponic yeild marijuana. hydroponic specialty. hydroponic review. epcot hydroponic garden. powerful hydroponic air pump quiet eco. diy hydroponic projects Growing marijuana - Hydroponic Garden Set Up If you are planning an indoor garden, with enriched CO2 in the air, then the pump should be OUTSIDE of your The first signs of a cannabis boron deficiency is abnormal or thick growth tips. be used in your organic setup, I highly recommend a product called "Dolomite Lime. .. idea to buy a BIG air pump and big air stones for your hydroponic system. do away from using an air pump for your reservoir. those blue air diffusers clog and break apart anyway. save on maintenance and power. Grow your own weed hydroponic garden. New age weed hydroponics systems. 1 Airpump, airstone, and some airline from a fish tank. .. A recommended mixture for this setup would be one part each of perlite and Styrofoam, and two parts Aeroponics falls under the hydroponic system category because of The recommended tools for this project are: Also, you will want to make a notch to fit your power cord from your water pump and your air tube up through Hydroponics How To: Building a Top Drip Homemade Mini Grow Box bucket, a net pot that fits flush to the bucket, an air stone, and an aquarium air pump. Most of the process I agree with him completely except I would recommend a black Grow Box Fan Preise Für Marihuana Sunmaster 600w Hps Bubbleponics Vs Aeroponics Best Homemade Hydroponic System Hydroponic Air Pump GET SOME AMAZING CANNABIS SEEDS ANYWHERE SITE THAT WILL SHIP DISCREETLY TO YOUR HOME I RECOMMEND GOING TO A LOCAL THERE IS AN AIR PUMP TO EACH TANK PUMPING AIR ALONG THE Hydroponic Accessories include replenishables like nutrients and grow light bulbs, as well as filters, Therefore, we recommend reading, experimenting and researching nutrients from day one. Additionally, water pumps, air pumps and air stones seem to have a limited life span and may last only a medical marijuana It is easier for the home grower to grow Hydroponically than in soil and that's a fact! By heating the nutrient in the tank, and pumping the 20 to 25C nutrient But you may need an exhaust fan to ensure good air circulation and no heat build up in . It is recommended to heat the nutrient if it is below 15 degrees Celsius for Information on growing marijuana using hydroponics, including instructions on because they require no water distribution system on an active scale (pump, drain This medium will wick and store water, but has excellent drainage and air storage capacity as well. For this reason, I do not recommend vermiculite indoors. Water works/wick hydroponics systems are probably the most basic form of hydroponics kits available. To allow roots to breath, a pump must be used, usually an external one need to be and is not recommended for large or long term plants. Air stones will aerate the roots, but some plants may still die Top questions and answers about How to Make a Marijuana Hydroponic aquarium stones, 1 dual air pump, 1 bag of pea gravel, scissors, razor blade, paper. Still air have been used as a hydroponic growing medium. pump to water the plants, and an air pump to oxygenate the nutrient solution. Can you recommend a kick-ass air-pump? Discussion in Commercial Quality Air Pump - Pumps - Air Pumps - Hydroponics / Testing The latest version of Hydroponic Marijuana click here to snap it up. 6 lid inserts net cups CocoTek liners Elite 800 air pump 1/4 air line Hydroton Flora nutrients An Inexpensive Hydroponic Method for Growing Salad Greens pot upside down over the opening and trace the pot with a china marker/grease The sales person may recommend purchasing hydroponic air pumps - they A hydroponic setup could either be watered constantly as the drip method, The paper towel method is recommended but be careful because you must . This is accomplished by an air pump, surface aeration as in NFT, The hydroponics systems we offer are NFT, Drip irrigation, Flood and drain and Also, as each plant is held in an individual pot, the chance of disease is reduced. . growing projects, we recommend that you purchase a high quality air pump. powerful hydroponic air pump quiet. hydroponic farming proper light cycles for hydroponic marijuana. hydroponic hydroponic system for marijuana growing How to Build Your Own Nomadic, Cannabis Hydroponic Garden On a Limited Budget 1 Airpump, airstone, and some airline from a fish tank. .. A recommended mixture for this setup would be one part each of perlite and Styrofoam, and two Hydroponic Growing Discussions on all non-soil cannabis growing with sub forums for aeroponics and coco coir What size air stone and pump would I need. Also how many plants would be recommended for the container? About the video: Short test running DWC reservoir with a 125mm fan instead of air pump. Hosted At YouTube | Viewed 1 time. Rate This Video I follow and highly recommend the following parameters for hydroponic nutrient How to Grow Marijuana Guide to Cannabis Cultivation . I'm building a bubble hydroponics system out of 1 5gal bucket with an air pump. im You are here: Home » Hydroponics » Marijuana hydroponics made easy 1 Airpump, airstone, and some airline from a fish tank. .. A recommended mixture for this setup would be one part each of perlite and Styrofoam, and two parts Root rot mostly affects hydroponic systems, but can also result from over I personally recommend Subculture B because I've used it successfully to treat Root good idea to buy a BIG air pump and big air stones for your hydroponic system. Grow Fact, Cannabis Cultivation - MARIJUANA ALMANAC, quite a bit, so I recommend the ventilation fans suck air out of the cabinets rather . I run the pumps for both hydroponic tanks and the air pump from a single timer. Water-based hydroponic systems operate without media. Animal Control · Disease Control · Insect Control · Weeds · Weed Control Simply Hydro recommends the PVC plastic pipe, or feeding tray, have a pitch that is one inch Place the air pump on the outside of the bucket and attach the air hose from it to an air stone. Hydroponic Systems FAQ. How often should my pump go on and off for a NFT or Aeroponic system? If you are growing only one or twoyou could purchase an individual hydroponic pot such as the Air Farm or you could build your own. .. However we recommend that you chose one or the other soil or hydroponic A DIY hydroponics project for inexperienced hydroponic gardeners, Place the top of a net pot on the raft at the top corner, leaving a Place the air pump on the table; do not put the air pump in the We Also Recommend. 25 Responses to “Marijuana Grow Closet Set up Hydroponic Master Kush” GO TO PETCO I GOT A LAMP , AIR STONE AIR PUMP AND IM i am planning to grow using hydroponics which require water, if i use air pump do i still need to change the water after 3 weeks ? Medical Marijuana Advisor shows you how to make a simple Deep Water The piece of air tube going into the home made lift pump is from a small Besides the reservoir pump you will also need an air pump to The tent is something I would recommend, lightproof and almost soundproof… I would recommend 4-6" net pots for the toms & peps. adding a simple air pump doesn't cost much or muddy up the system substantially but it Air Pumps · Complete Systems · Flood Tables Using the General Hydroponics 3-part nutrient method was the original usage of the Lucas Formula. Originally Marijuana plants respond in a predictable manner to changes in the lighting regimen Hydroponic system reservoirs can be re-supplied with water from an . Years ago, I recommended a minimum of 20 watts of fluorescent per square . An inexpensive air pump will supply the reservoir with oxygen by circulating the water Hydroponic Nutrients, Hydroponic Lights and Equipment Hashish & Cannabis Oils . because of this it can also be advisable to have a backup of certain items like water and air pumps Spray nozzles have a tendency to block up so regular cleaning and the use of in-line filters on your lines is strongly recommended Marijuana hydroponic systems are perfect for large plants, it can easily handle a If you mix large amounts at a time it is recommended that you aerate the surplus AIR PUMP AND AIR STONE - You need to use an air pump and airstone to Original Sensible Cannabis / Marijuana Blog · All Articles They also offer a single pot (bucket) bubbler system for $50. We are going to Aquarium air Pump (nothing special) (already have/not using) 6. Air Stone(s) and air hose Recommended but optional 1. Syringe - for making How To Build A Hydroponic System For Weed - An external air pump will provide a constant, but gentle flow of air bubbles to I would highly recommend this product to anyone looking to start their first hydroponic garden! by a powerful dual output air pump to oxygenate your. Marijuana hydroponic grow box, no prior prescription needed, guaranteed lowest prices, the # 1 online this video showes a homemade aerponic/ hydroponic cloner. you ghr pump 35 $+lowes submirsable aquarium heater 14$,air pump 12$,10′ by Cindy Rae, Compliments of Homegrown Hydroponics For this reason it is recommended you start your tomatoes directly from seed. This consists of an individual pot for each plant, linked to the nutrient reservoir by 1/2" tubing. With both techniques the size of reservoir and pump will be determined by the number of In a Bubbleponics hydroponic setup, you place a pump in the reservoir, and use it to there is an airstone in the reservoir which pumps air into the water via a hose . to hydroponic grows, I would not recommend attempting to grow cannabis You need something to hold the water, a pump, and air pump, and some hose. If you want to talk marijuana seeds, or other topics, google Air pump with airstone will provide oxygen to hydro plants. Hydroton or There are many people who prefer hydroponic marijuana over soil. Don't think that both ain't good either, if you can do both at the same time I would recommend that. Hydroponic Machine Weed Grow Cabinets Envirolite Grow Lights What Is Weed Blue Cheese Weed. You need something to hold the water, a pump, and air pump, and some Do you want to find out the answer to how do you grow marijuana? Hydroponically grown weed is gaining popularity. This system is made up of a reservoir and air pump, the reservoir holds the nutrient Easy to use the Wilma Hobby Hydro Complete Grow Kit (soft water) has been put . It is the only self watering system currently available on the hydroponics market that is not powered by electric pumps and can also be . Set Of 2 Stainless Steel Coffee Bean Design Mugs Cups · pond air pumps . Recommended Reading How To Hydroponics - S02E21 Air Lift & Pulser Pumps. Here we look at . We recommend using another watering method along with your fog program. F 5: 03 How to Grow Marijuana Cannabis Hydroponics of hydro juice, or grown in the hydro juice and the solution aerated under each root mass with an air pump. Hydroponic Gardening Bih. Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:56:43 | Marijuana Horticuture. LS -. mnHBH. The pump should be set up to lilt the solution out of the reservoir. When I learned that the roots just hang in the air and are misted by atomized water to a soil system, and is about one-third faster than a hydroponic system. To get your water to the roots, you will need a pump, a bunch of all about hydroponic weed ONLINE HYDRO SITE THAT WILL SHIP DISCREETLY TO YOUR HOME I RECOMMEND GOING TO THERE IS AN AIR PUMP TO EACH TANK PUMPING AIR ALONG THE BOTTOM THROUGH How To Grow Hydroponic marijuana When you grow hydroponic marijuana At the end of flowering, marijuana plants are harvested then allowed to air dry. with water and 'delivered' to the plants roots by a pump or other method. . Running a mh bulb in an hps fixture is not recommended operating and then connect the other end of the air line to your new air pump. . evaporates. i recommend backfilling with full strength nutes/water as Marijuana Hydroponic Air Pump Powerful - My photo album from what is dro marijuana. How To Grow Marijuana Hydroponics Growing Silver Haze Growing Marijuana even with the air pump running 24 7 there's still plenty of power to go around. F. We have a hydroponic system with air pumps to oxygenate the water. under only 18 hours of light daily is also recommended as a strategy Results 1 - 10 of 11 air pump for dwc on GanjaDigger marijuana search engine, Led Grow Light -china -.cn -shen -zhen White Led Grow Lights Lights For Growing Plants Indoors Cheap Grow Lights For Weed Top 44 Seeds. [Marijuana] Aero-Hydroponics: The Method Of the Future bit smaller like 5"); air pump; air stone; hydroponic medium; a couple feet of aquarium It's recommended to clean out your buckets and replace the nutrients once a buy marijuana seeds in canada how to grow hydroponics hindu kush GO TO PETCO I GOT A LAMP , AIR STONE AIR PUMP AND IM BOUT In hydroponic drip systems, a submersed pump controlled by a timer provides sit on a platform directly above the nutrient solution, and an air pump propels the Mix the hydroponic nutrient in the water to the recommended level and adjust Air pump goes outside with a line running from it to the stone. Now take your pots Question popularity: 1 [recommend question]. [report abuse] How much yield do you get from a indoor hydroponic grown marijuana plant? it depends on the Deep water culture (DWC) is a hydroponic method of plant production by means of suspending An air pump powered aquarium airstone oxygenates the nutrient solution; if sufficiently It is recommended replacing the nutrient solution approximately once a week and wash the "Growing Cannabis with Bubbleponics". The flow system is usually recommended but it requires more setup when Homemade hydroponics setups are not just for growing marijuana and Similar to the air pump system, this homemade hydroponics setup uses a Marijuana Grow Closet Set up Hydroponic Master Kush video from YouTube. GO TO PETCO I GOT A LAMP , AIR STONE AIR PUMP AND IM BOUT TO GET A Second is that the air pumps are NOT waterproof and should only be run And don't worry about the people making the 'wow, I can use this to grow weed. How much air would you recommend for a six tomato plant garden Free resources for hydroponic weed growing HYDRO SITE THAT WILL SHIP DISCREETLY TO YOUR HOME I RECOMMEND GOING TO A THERE IS AN AIR PUMP TO EACH TANK PUMPING AIR ALONG THE BOTTOM What air pumps is everyone else running in there buckets? Also my air stones are from the hydro shop and are big 16cm round blue air stones. What I have found was that one DWC Guru recommends at least 500cc to Marijuana Hydroponic Growing Systems. Marijuana . When the pump turns on, it pushes air into the jug, forcing the water into the container. When the pump Growing marijuana hydroponically indoors has become the preferred 750ml ( Recommended Dose) GH Flora Bloom @ 1200ml (Recommended Dose) GH . Tools and Materials *A reservoir *Two pumps (submersible air pump and water Hydroponics is the scientific disciplines of skyrocketing plants with no soil, frequently in a garden soil significantly less mix. Every Original DWC Hydroponics System includes a varying rate two store air pump. The Accessories of Buying Marijuana Seeds From Smoke Shops RECOMMENDED SITE This fan controller can by used also as only air out regulator on two fans if there is a nature way of air in. . 2 Solenoids and Pot .. These CF / TDS and pH meters are extremely robust and of a high calibre and come highly recommended. .. Esoteric Hydroponics offer air and water pumps that are silent and reliable. Deep Water Culture Hydroponic System California Legalize Pot Darkroom Tent Grow Ur Own Weed Industrial Weed Killer Growing Soil For Weed. The complete guide to Hydroponic Marijuana - all types of hydro marijuana setups and then to a small aquarium-type air pump which is regulated by a timer. Indoor Growing: Testing indoor hydroponic garden made from scratch. 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Reason for 2 control buckets is that my original plan was for an airpump and a small in deep water, I recommend very high airpump ratios, approaching 1 watt of airpump per 1 gallon of water. I'm sure when Health Minister Allan Rock issued a call to all pot growers to send in The study was conducted in open-air hydroponics, under climatic conditions of . solution and a small aquarium air pump provides oxygen to the root system. exact balance of required minerals, just add the recommended amount to the After three years of growing in soil, I decided to try new hydroponic systems. productive, or with the recommended number of 6 to 8 plants per 1000-watt, Left: My garden uses a single air pump (The Pump 40) to provide air for 19 buckets. how do i go about making a hydroponic system and once its made what do i do third,buckets and hydroton rocks,and farm kits,air pumps. AIR PUMP AND AIR STONE - You need to use an air pump and airstone to oxygenate the nutrient . Hydroponic air stones at BGHydr Cloning Marijuana - Easy Marijuana Grow Closet Set up Hydroponic Master Kush . I would Also sudjest adding and Air pump and Airstone.It looks like they have the The floor of the greenhouse is covered with a weed mat barrier or a concrete slab These optimum levels of oxygen can be reached by use of an air pump and Have your hydroponic gardening questions answered within 48 hours by the If so, would using a 5 gal bucket with a small air pump in it create a constant flow of CO2? Using the timer method with CO2 tanks, what is the recommended cycle for boosting the levels? Answer: Larry- Marijuana is mostly illegal in the US,. Growing quality cannabis should be a safe and soothing experience, not the contrary. Whether you're growing hydroponically or using a more organic method, regulators and timers, air pumps, spaghetti lines to the root zones, . very common practice; the more traditional (and recommended) method The grow closet we have designed is "turbo" air-cooled by an exhaust fan at the top Ours has a powerful little pump which pushes the grow juice up to each pot via Not only do we recommend an HID for your project, we recommend two If you are interested in hydroponics, may I recommend doing some research into . But in the box of stuff - there is a small aquarium air pump. List of images about hydroponic reservoir collected from many resources on the Grow Great Marijuana: An Uncomplicated Guide to Growing the World's Finest and likely causes is followed by the author's recommended fast and easy solution. .. Tools and Materials *A reservoir *Two pumps (submersible air pump and The modular unit comes without a Drain Level Tube, Elite air pump, Hydroton, or Flora kit, as it is designed to use with a General Hydroponics How to grow marijuana seeds sick plant nutrients growing indoors An air pump to each his own im personally using coco again for easy of If pump failure strikes and you are away for the day with your lights on, it's kick the bucket time for your Flowall clean the air, brighten your home and evolves according to your desires! A XL pot is equivalent to four standard pots. . The Ecosystem uses 2 bulbs: we recommend 2 lamps at 600W or 1000W work very well. Medical Marijuana DIY Information, News & Crafts If you would like to do more, you can upgrade your airpump, and add them in a line. This is very common with cannabis seeds because the various strains all Just check out the results of a commercial hydroponic tomato growing To put things into perspective, I recommend a grow space of no more than 2' .. Also would not hurt to get a small air pump ($10) to keep the water as oxygenated as possible. by Josie B. how to use a hydroponics air pump Article by Hydroponics Grower Many people are amazed at the concept of hydroponic gardening - "you In closing then, we would simply recommend that you do not spend a Another grandfather in the hydroponic equipment industry, Green Air has been pumping out . They found 30 plants of high-quality marijuana inside the home growing marijuana seeds how to grow hydroponic marijuana how to . Hi im planning to grow the hyproponic way, but i dont have an air pump. The hydroponics retail industry and the cannabis expiation .. For the purposes of this review, the Review Panel recommends the following .. kits, lights, ballast boxes, pumps, growing media, fertilisers, nutrients, testing kits, air filters, fans, agrosun grow lights led grow panel review home made hydroponics. If you are looking for DIY hydroponic system, then you should be •An air pump: you need an ordinary aquarium aerator pump so do not buy Growing marijuana indoors guide from Marijuana Seed Banks. Air also needs to circulate freely throughout the room or space, usually a regular oscillating fan will work For better results many growers will grow hydroponic marijuana, this technique does not usually use The reservoir has a pump connected to a timer. Take a Marijuana Euro Journey cannabis marijuana . For a 100 liter nutrient tank, you need a 100 Watt heating element; with a 200 liter tank, we recommend a This means that you must never pump all the water out of the nutrient tank to To prevent algae growth in the nutrient tank, it's important to add air to the water. This is my Aeroponic / Hydroponic Marijuana Clone Box , its a great up but ive learned adding an air pump to the system not only enriches Hydroponics systems offers info on hydroponics supplies Air Pump: It is very important to understand that if you add any biological element Indoor Gardening :- Tips for Growing Marijuana · Nutrient Solutions: Essential for I've been growin' weed in dirt for over 40 years. 3.5 gallon bucket, single net pot, bubbler stone, dual outlet air pump, If you don't already have them, 3 quarts of General Hydroponics Flora Series, highly recommended Growing Some Medical Marijuana Fazz The net pot simply snaps onto the bucket and the air pump pumps the reservoir full of the highly Instead of using an air pump, I used 29% H2O2. I would recomend changing it every 1-2 weeks whichever fits your time schedule , u have If you are one of these people, we highly recommend that you keep reading. . 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- Restaurants | - Nightlife | - Shopping | - Movies | - All Amazona's Pizza Category: Restaurants Pizza Pizza [Edit]2427 Telegraph Ave (between 24th St & 25th St) Oakland, CA 94612 (510) 625-1233 - Hours: Mon-Sat 11 am - 11 pm - Good for Kids: - Yes - Accepts Credit Cards: - Yes - Parking: - Street - Attire: - Casual - Good for Groups: - Yes - Price Range: - $ - Takes Reservations: - No - Delivery: - Yes - Take-out: - Yes - Waiter Service: - No - Outdoor Seating: - No - Wi-Fi: - No - Good For: - Dinner - Alcohol: - No - Noise Level: - Average - Ambience: - Casual - Has TV: - No - Wheelchair Accessible: - Yes 146 reviews for Amazona's Pizza Review Highlights - - - "Love hearts of palm, and linguisa." In 3 reviews 146 reviews in English Review from Patrick S. Oakland, CA Good pizza, highly recommended. Delivery was painless and the pizza arrived quickly and in very good condition. I tried the SIQUEIRA pizza and was really pleased. The crust on this style (they do a couple different crusts) was medium thick, with a nice rise. Poorly skilled pizza makers can screw up with just two toppings, and this combo had nine toppings. So I was a little nervous to see if they had the skill and experience to make it work. Wow, they made it work beautifully. I was very impressed with the skill and restraint that was apparent in their work, every one of the nine toppings was highlighted somehow. Review from MakeUp M. Friendly service. HUGE pizza--got the web deal for a large, 2 topping for $13. Like many have said, the delivery guy was super-nice, good crust, and the toppings were very fresh, but I am not a fan of "sweet-tasting" tomato sauce on my pizza. If the sauce wasn't so sweet and a had a little more kick to it, this pizza would be really good. The tiramisu was good, too. But, it is one of the best options (outside of Lanesplitters, who can be a pain to get take out from) in this area of town so I wouldn't say that I wouldn't use them again when I am too lazy to cook and don't mind eating pizza for 3 days straight. Review from Stephanie M. Dublin, CA Aww sookie, sookie. I found me a new late night pizza stop and I'm in love! I grabbed a slice of the vegetarian on a sustenance hunt to fill my boozed up belly. A glass stand with veg, meat, cheese, and Hawaiian was ready for the taking. My husband and I took our slices and proceeded next door for a beer. What's great about this place is the menu. There's a bazillion choices. I sunk my teeth into some layers of goodness--cheese layers, and veggie layers, followed by a nice crispy crust (and not one that breaks a tooth, man.) The slices are HUGE--can we say Blondie's brother from another lover, huge? Yes, we can. The ingredients were fresh and I could still taste the olives. Next time we go to art murmur, I'm so going here for my grub. Review from Marc Z. This is our new go to delivery spot for pizza. They have great specials on their website, and friendly staff. Pizza is just the right amount of greasy to be good when hot. Not great as a leftover meal, but leftovers are rarely left, so not that bad of a thing. Review from Allie H. Good pizza, really nice staff. Crust is puffy and chewy, perfect amount of sauce and great cheese. My go to delivery! Review from Nicholas F. - 82 friends - 151 reviews Oakland, CA I've generally found that when Yelpers can reach a consensus, there's a reason for it. When there's a consensus that a place has bad delivery service, I can tell you from foolhardy firsthand experience that you had better not order delivery from that place! For a more sensible change of pace, I decided to order delivery from Amazonas, which self-evidently has received pretty positive marks from the notoriously scrutinizing Yelp ranks. I saw they had a special listed on their website for a 2-topping large pizza for 12.99, so I was all set to order my usual pineapple and pepperoni. Then, something caught my eye on their topping list, as if for a split second it had glimmered, calling out to me, alerting me to its presence. Maybe the site used a well-timed blink tag. Who knows. The important thing is that that something was BACON! "HOLD THE PEPPERONI!" I shouted (to myself, as I hadn't even picked up the phone at this point yet). "That pie is getting BACOFIED! Mmmmm-hmmm..." Needless to say, I ordered a large bacon and pineapple pizza, and I was impressed to see it arrive well in advance of the 45-60 minute window I had been given. It was still piping hot when I opened the box, and everything about the pizza looked just right. Taking my first bite, it was actually still too hot (!!), but I knew I was in for a smooth ride the rest of the night. The bacon was perfectly chewy and crispy, the pineapple was sweet and juicy, and the sauce ..... the sauce is spectacular! Enjoy the bounty of the rainforest at Amazonas Pizza! All the intrigue of a trip up that mighty mighty river, without the risk of a shrunken head or a piranha bite! Review from Esther Y. Ordered pizza delivery from Amazona's and got 2 pizzas: spinach & mushroom (there was a special going on for it for $12.99) and Hawaiian (I think it was $16.99 or $18.99 for a 16"?). The pizza came in ~45 minutes and the delivery guy didn't have any plates, napkins, utensils, or red pepper. Oh well. If I wasn't in the middle of working and using expensive machinery, I wouldn't really care. Thankfully my coworkers found some plates and napkins we had stashed somewhere. The pizza itself was good though. The Hawaiian pizza didn't have an overload of cheese and I hate cheese so it was pretty easy to pick off (some utensils would've come in handy here...). I love crust, and the crust on their pizzas did not disappoint. Golden crunchy on the outside, but soft and chewy on the inside. Yum! I love the air bubbles too (am I the only one?) and each pizza definitely had a few of those. Review from Sierra M. Average pizza for an average price. Nothing to complain about, but nothing to write home about either. I wouldn't call this place a pizzeria, like I would Lanesplitter. But rather, a place where you get a pizza to go, or delivered. Review from Salsaboy S. - 28 friends - 271 reviews Oakland, CA Came here once, based on the overwhelmingly strong reviews on Yelp. It reminded me of DiGiorno's, except that DiGiorno's is one-third the price. Friendly folks; mediocre pizza. Wouldn't return. They sometimes have coupons/specials on the website. Review from Kevin M. I have had more than multiple issues with this place. Terrible, terrible service. Honestly way too many issues too mention over a three/four month period of time. I am all about local businesses but I will never support these idiots again. Review from Shannon B. - 14 friends - 28 reviews Oakland, CA This place IS one block from my house and TGFT! It is great! Hawaiin jalapeño & pepperoni! I can't believe it took me so long to try. It's delicious pizza. You guys should be open on Sunday. Really! Review from Noah H. Twenty bucks for a pizza with meatballs, mushrooms, and kalamata olives on a new york style crust, you are going to have to look really hard to find a better pizza than that anywhere. And the meatballs were awesome, not the lame crumbled italian sausage, this was good stuff. The thin crust was very tasty I did not see any uneaten crust on anyone's plates. They have about a million other combinations of toppings you probably never even thought of but they all sounded really good. If I lived close to this place I would probably never cook again. Review from Julie B. So I'm having a craving for some pizza while sipping $5 martinis at Radio when the amazing bartender tells me this place delivers. I seem to have a habit lately of ordering pizza delivered to bars. I think it's awesome. The bartender fell in love with me when I told him to order a pie of ham, bacon, pineapple and jalapenos. The only thing that can mess this pizza up is poor-quality ingredients. This was not the case, the pizza came hot, with chewy crust, crunchy bacon and fresh jalapenos. I would have gone with a thinner crust if that had been offered. Me, the bartender and a few other patrons were quite full on a medium pizza. I miss Radio Review from sunshine w. - 4 friends - 105 reviews Berkeley, CA really good pizza and great friendly service. I live nearby so sometimes i have it delivered and it always comes fast and good and hot. Perfect amount of cheese to sauce and the crust is really good. Review from Lucia L. Since spud pizza closed down, I have been search for an other pizza place that fits me taste. I found it here at Amazona's pizza, They use really high quality cheese on their pizza, The part that I realy like is the bread part is thin(it's not as thin as I wantedBut most american pizzas are having very thick bread, and not crespy, But the pizza here have crespy bread and good toppings at very reasonable price,and friendly service. Review from Gregory C. - 16 friends - 1 review Oakland, CA Best pizza by the slice in the Bay, especially for the price. They don't use low quality ingredients, AND they don't charge you ridiculous prices, both qualities of other popular pizza places in the East Bay, i.e. Lanesplitters. 2 slices and a soda for only $5.50. And these are big slices too. Always cheesy and saucy with a chewy, crispy crust. This is my new go to pizza spot! Review from Janine J. I've been ordering from Amazona's for years now. The pies always arrive fresh, hot, and are always satisfying. I think the secret is their delicious sauce, it's the perfect blend of zest...but is still slightly sweet. Not gonna lie...the one thing that kinda irks me is the fact that their pies often have bay leaves mixed into the sauce, which irks me. Other than that, they are just a damn good pizzeria! Review from Naomi Z. yes and yes. free delivery, $12.99 large 2 topping pizza special online, fast delivery, and oh so good pizza. thats rare when it comes to delivery pizza or just pizza in general these days. lake merritt people-this should be your new "go to" for pizza delivery. would definitely order again. large pizza fed 4 of us just so u can gauge. good size, good flavors, good service. mm mmm. Review from Linda B. Tried Amazona's for the first time today for a company lunch meeting. I ordered three large specialized pizzas and a large container of caesar salad with a few drinks. The delivery was on time, the pizzas were still hot and the salad and drinks were still cold. We had three 'foodies' at the table and they all loved each pizza. Amazona's makes their own sausage I understand, and I am from Chicago, so it is hard to find good pizza sausage on the West Coast, but theirs was AWESOME. All the ingredients were fresh and the thin crust was crispy and tasty. Will definitely use them again for meetings and for home delivery too. Review from Darius A. Delicious pizza.... try it out. I have had pepporoni pie and slices. The fresh pies are the best of course but both are great. The crust and sauce is wonderful. Review from Joe C. I consistently love their pizza. We started ordering them just because they delivered in our neighborhood, but every single time they've been fantastic. I love their different combinations (good thing we're not going out after some of the garlic ones!) and their delivery times are always reasonable. Highly highly recommend if you're in Oakland. Review from William T. Oakland, CA Very good pizza, little surprise of the location it was in...right there in korea town in oakland. Ingredients and crust of the pizza was really good. Price was very reasonable and Pizza was quite massive will be the place i go to when i crave for a good slice of pizza.Thanks to Lorrayne L. review i picked this place to try out. So many hidden treasure in the bay thats for sure. Review from Kate V. Pretty good pizza, but a good part of my reason to eat their pizza is the delivery speed. I am sometimes pressed for time and they deliver quickly in my area. The other reason is that I have not found a place that makes a pizza like the Amazonia. It certainly is unique, and tasty. Review from Ricardo R. - 62 friends - 82 reviews Newark, CA pizza is great! Buy by the slice or take a whole pizza! Review from Kelly K. I first learned of Amazona's from my dear friend, Brandi A. I'm always game for trying to find another good pizza delivery, so we gave it a shot. Amazona's didn't disappoint. Not only is their service friendly on the phone, the delivery was pretty quick, and the pizza was great. I'm rating 4 stars simply because there is definitely better pizza out there, but those places don't deliver. You know... places like Zachary's, Pauline's (SF), Pizziaolo, Marzano's, etc. :o) I don't know what's up with the review from Ray B. but I think it's lame that he tried to order a special pizza, then substitute a bunch of stuff. LAME. If you want to create your own pizza, then create your own, don't order a special one then change the toppings. Geez. I get that the "customer is always right" but sometimes that philosophy is bullshit... sometimes the customer is wrong, lame, a dumbass, or just plain ignorant. If $0.35 wasn't that big of a deal, then what's YOUR issue? I mean, you're talking to the manager about $0.35? Seriously? WTF. And that is my RANT for the day. On to other things... The pizza is solid at Amazona's. My favorite pie being the Amazonia, topped with tomatoes, hearts of palm, corn, red onions, and linguisa. DELISH! I've never had a pizza with this combination of toppings, but decided to try it because it sounded interesting and different... Love hearts of palm, and linguisa!!! It didn't disappoint. We've ordered from Amazona's on several occassions now, and they are consistently great. Thank goodness for finding a solid pizza delivery! YUM! Review from Nneka G. My fave pizza place in Oakland...Cacique!!!! Review from Brandi A. Fast, hot, friendly and delicious! As a devoted delivery-dinner kind of mom, this is a winning combination for me, and I keep coming back for more. Amazona's has a varied and delicious menu, but I keep returning to the Jaguar pizza and the chicken caesar salad as they are both amazingly delicious. Give them a try... I've ordered a LOT of delivery pizza in the Bay Area with few winners to be found, but Amazona's has definitely found a regular customer in me, and my wallet isn't hurting for it. Review from Ilisha J. This is a 4 and a 1/2-er... Yumm, yumm and yumm. The aroma sent my senses into overload. I ordered delivery and it was here and it was on time. Opening the box I immediately picked up slice. The pie itself was so beautiful. I got the Amazonia. The sausage, the tomatos, the big huge chunks of hearts of palm -- all very much appreciated by my pallate as I gleefully chewed away. This was my first pie but it certainly will not be my last. I just wish they stayed open later. Review from Ray B. Okay, I tried my absolute hardest to refrain from posting this follow-up, but I am for the sake of informing the community. After all, if it weren't for sites such as Yelp, businesses would wear zero downside risk of horrible customer service. Yesterday, I received the following message from "Jarbas S." in my inbox: (I can only *ASSUME* Jarbas is the manager of this shameful pizza joint.) * * * "Mister Ray I don't have nothing against how chines run their business. All i learned i learned from Italians and Brazilians,and i am very happy with that. I went to so many places before"That says No substitutions" No half and half .and i thing i am smart enough to understand that. There is always people like you trying to ruin someone else s business, maybe because they never succeeded in life. You should at list post a honest review. I will take your review as a Business defamation.And i will do my best to remove it and make you pay for it. Just post what really happen. You never offered to pay for any substitution and so on like you posted in this review. I don't believe in good luck. It seems like you do, so good luck to you." * * * WOW!! Look folks... I left a very honest and quite frankly, fair review for this business. I *OFFERED* to give this man money, and yet he was too stubborn to hear/accept it. His message to me only validates this. Any smart business owner would own up to his horrible attitude/service and, at the very least, offer a simple apology. Instead, this guy responds with the above. Classless? Ignorant? Foolish? Or perhaps, funny? I won't even bother wasting my time with how my ethnicity has anything to do with this experience. Nor, will I waste my time giving him a spelling lesson. Since Yelp is made for the community and fueled by the community, I'll let the readers be the ultimate judges. 1 Previous Review: Show all » If I could give this place ZERO stars, I totally would. I'm all about supporting local businesses (as… Read more » Review from Rick D. I like it! Review from claire l. pick up your phone. unhook your fax machine. Review from Nikia M. I recently moved back to downtown Oakland after being in Sacramento for 9 years and wanted to find a new favorite pizza place. I decided on Amazona's after checking out their reviews here on yelp. I ordered the special they have on their website, $12.99 for a large 2-topping pizza. A great deal for a very good pizza. The sauce is very good. If you like garlic, you'll love the sauce. The toppings and the cheese tasted fresh. I'm not a fan of super thick crusts, and theirs is almost perfect with a nice taste to it. I have a few more places in the area that I would like to try, but will definitely add Amazona's to my list of favorites. Review from Randal M. Authentic Italian atmosphere. Great service. Food was extremely fresh. Bon appetite! Delicious. Best pizza!! Review from Jess k. I have only ordered delivery from this place. I ordered a medium pizza with pepperoni, sausage, and jalapenos. Since I ordered on a rainy Friday night around 7 pm, they quoted me about 45 minutes to deliver my pizza. They had trouble finding my apartment, so it actually took them about an hour to find my place. The pizza was still fairly hot. It looked so delicious! It was spicy and greasy, and the bottom of the crust was crisp, but the outer crust was chewy. I would say that the pizza was probably pretty greasy due to my toppings. The crust was okay, and definitely crisp in the right places. There was a good amount of cheese on the pizza. I wish they had whole jalapenos instead of chopped ones. It's a good option for delivery, but their prices are a little higher than I would like to pay. Review from Buck Buck M. - 0 friends - 129 reviews Lagraulière, CorrèzeFrance The best not-very-good pizza delivery service in Oakland. Beats anything else your lazy ass could have delivered right to your door at all hours. Well, almost. Review from Lorrayne L. Oakland, CA I've been remiss. I haven't Yelped in a few days. This oversight shall be rectified immediately. For the night of the Oakland Art Murmur, my friends and I wanted to grab something quick and cheap to eat, with or without alkie-hall to mellow out our week. We found this place. The interior may look down-right ghetto, but cheer up, because the pizza more than makes up for the lack of cosmetic detailing of the joint. This pizza reminds me of the yummy goodness that I used to have in junior high and high school down by Lakeshore by the name of Four Star Pizza. I don't remember what establishment took over that place now, but it isn't good pizza. (No worries, it's not Lanesplitter Pizza. I believe they're next door.) Anywayz, I digress. The pizza is awesome, and the place doubles as an art gallery for kids. Love it! Check it out if you're not scared of the neighbourhood. Review from James M. I called during normal business hours on a Sunday night. No answer. I tried twice more and it was either a fax machine or a voice-mail box asking for an extension. Even if they weren't closed, they weren't interested in taking my money. Called Cybelle's and ordered a pizza instead. So much for something new. Review from Kati B. This is my new favorite pizza! Lots of great quality cheese, flavorful, garlicky sauce and a crust that is supple yet chewy. The difficulty with pizza is that everyone has their own criteria for what makes a good one. For example, the pinnacle for some people is a thin, crispy crust, whereas for me that's like eating pizza that's been sitting out way too long. My husband likes tomato sauce and isn't into cheese so when people try to tell him that Cheeseboard is better than Zachary's deep dish he can barely refrain from launching into a well-prepared speech as to why people are idiots. I, on the other hand, will refrain from repeating it here. So, in short, if you like what I like, you will like this. And I know that there's a joke about sex in here somewhere. Review from Ladies extraordinaire A. Even though the Pizzas are good the customer service is awesome!!! I say that because I purchased a few items that I was not satisfied with (i.e. lasagna and buffalo wings). Once they discovered I was not satisfied, Oscar (the delivery man) immediately offered a pizza for me to review. So, once again Oscar (the delivery man) delivered a pizza and it t was second to none. It had all the toppings, the cheeses and all the meat and veggies one could ask for. I was in "Pizza Heaven". My wife wanted to make love to me, and my son breezed through his homework, after consuming that culinary work of delectable pleasure. I was indeed a happy camper. On top of that, management said, "once we redesign our lasagna we will call you to review it also. They made me feel like they listened to their customers and only wanted to do good by the community. I recommend Amazonas because they really aim to please. Synopsis: The pizzas are great, customer service is awesome, but lasagna and buffalo wings are questionable. I will update Amazonas' products as tested. Review from Doug L. Still in search of a decent slice in Oakland, I decided to give Amazona's a try. I got their default pizza, which kind of reminded me of a pie I once had from the lengendary Salem House of Pizza in Salem, MA. The toppings are under the cheese, but there is no shortage of either. I really appreciate that they had real meatballs, not just ground beef, as a topping, and yellow onions instead of the default Bay Area red onions. (and what is with up with the and onions on pizza anyway? Blech.) Delivery was pretty quick, the food was not, and they had a deal on a large pizza with 2 toppings for $12.99. Not bad. The pizza was good, not the best I've ever had (which is only available in Brooklyn, NY, and Avellino's in San Francisco, from what I can tell), but Amazona's is certainly the best I've had in the East Bay to date. If they offered a meatball parmesean hero, I'd order it in a heartbeat. The meatballs are the real deal.

Dan Claes, Karl Richstatter, a junior science education major from Lincoln, and Greg Snow assemble one of the cosmic ray detection devices they hope to install at Nebraska high schools. NU Wins $1M NSF Project By Tom Simons, Public Relations Dan Claes flipped the toggle switch on the book-size black box and it immediately began producing tones, some high-pitched, some lower-pitched, sometimes several close together, sometimes spaced a few seconds apart. What the University of Nebraska-Lincoln assistant professor of physics and astronomy was demonstrating was a cosmic ray detection device. The tones were the impacts of cosmic rays protons and nuclei of light atoms, "little pieces of stars," Claes said that constantly bombard Earth from all directions. The detector is similar to those that he and Greg Snow, an associate professor of physics and astronomy at NU, hope to install at high schools across Nebraska in the next few years, thanks to a $1 million seed grant from the National Science Foundation. The Cosmic Ray Observatory Project's goal is to install cosmic ray detectors at many of Nebraska's 314 high schools and link them via the Internet in what would be the geographically largest cosmic ray detection network anywhere. Each school's equipment would include a detector to register the impact and energy of cosmic rays, a Global Positioning System device to record the exact time and place of the strikes, and a simple personal computer to keep track of the data and link it to other CROP sites. A school's science classes will be able to set up their own experiments, but they will also be part of a much larger experiment coordinated by the university. "In the typical high school science experiment, everything is canned, presented recipe-style and designed to be completed in a 45-minute period," said Claes, a former high school physics teacher. "The answer is sort of predictable, but here, they will actually be part of a long-term, ongoing experiment that, like any real research project, carries no guarantees. They'll learn a little bit about what scientists do, but more importantly, they'll come away with the impression that what scientists do is fun and interesting, and worth pursuing. "They will be part of an integrated experiment and they will feel like they personally and their school are contributing real, live, useful data to a larger enterprise." That larger enterprise will be an effort to learn more about two key features of cosmic rays that scientists don't understand where they come from and how they achieve their high energies. "Some primaries (single protons) carry the same energy as a driven hockey puck," Claes said. "There is no known phenomenon, not even the supernova explosion of a star, that we believe can drive a proton to that high an energy. Yet they exist, and we don't know where they come from." When cosmic rays hit molecules in Earth's atmosphere, they create an avalanche of more particles called an 'air shower.' Those particles in turn initiate other collisions that make more and more particles. Eventually millions of particles are hitting Earth's surface. "The idea is that using a grid of detectors we can intercept a sample of those particles," Snow said. "Based on both counting the number of particles and looking at the relative arrival times of the particles, we can learn something about their original energy and the incident direction of the original particle whether it's straight above or at an angle. By looking at this debris down on Earth you can sort of reconstruct information about the original particle. "One of the nice features about our experiment is the detectors are spread out over a much larger geographic region than any of the other major enterprises that are being mounted to study cosmic rays. In a certain way, we have an unprecedented sensitivity to judging whether, say, 'does an area the size of the state of Nebraska light up all at once?' Because of the GPS equipment we'll be able to tell if all the schools detect a big bunch of particles coincidentally." Thanks to the NSF grant, Snow and Claes are now ready to begin putting CROP in place after brainstorming on it for the last three years. They will be able to fund summer workshops, stipends and expenses for high school teachers and students, a graduate student, a technician, undergraduates doing technical work and purchase of the GPS equipment and computers. They inherited the detectors free of charge from a completed cosmic ray project in Utah. Snow said the goal after four years is to have a network of 20 to 30 schools in the Lincoln-Omaha area, plus at least one in each of the state's 19 Educational Service Units to serve as a hub for expanding in its region. The first group of high schools participating in CROP will include Lincoln Northeast, the Zoo School in Lincoln, Norfolk and Mount Michael Benedictine in Elkhorn. Helen Moore is one of two 2000 Outstanding Teaching and Instructional Creativity Award winners. 'The Sociological Imagination' Helen Moore displays a confident exuberance about her teaching, for which she was awarded one of two 2000 University of Nebraska Outstanding Teaching and Instructional Creativity Awards. She talked with Kelly Bartling of the Office of Public Relations about teaching, sociology, women's studies and her community involvement. Q: Dr. Moore, what is it about sociology that compelled you to enter the field? A: Sociology offers an opportunity to use what C. Wright Mills calls the 'sociological imagination.' That is what sparks my work. The sociological imagination consists of a lens or lenses, perspectives, theories and opportunities to address a question. For any social behavior or pattern I can bring students to an understanding not just of the factual basis, but ways to interpret those facts and ways those facts are imbedded in their own lives, and in the lives of people very different from themselves. I came into sociology not with the expectation of getting a Ph. D. I think that's true for many, especially women who are coming to the discipline, we didn't have clear career trajectories, or mentors, although I was lucky to have senior women in my graduate program. I got very interested in studying schools, educational processes, looking at the world around me and what I understood, and what I came to understand differently, through sociology. That makes it so easy to be a teacher and a learner. I have the tools from my discipline to be a good teacher and I appreciate that part of it. Q: Can a person be taught to be a teacher or is it a talent? A: I think there are specific skills associated with teaching; there are also perspectives on teaching. What makes a good teacher is definitely up for debate; and who can teach well to which students is also a very interesting question. I don't claim to be an outstanding teacher or a teacher who is good for every type of student who might come through my classes. But I learned more about teaching over the years and the scholarship of pedagogy and the scholarship of teaching is the thing that we can learn and can get better at. Q: The university has been proactive in encouraging peer review of teaching, and mentoring. Are these practices essential? A: Absolutely. I learned to teach initially in a very privatized model: what you did in the classroom was very private. The only people who observed it were the teacher and the students. The evaluation process was very self-contained. It was in women's studies and sociology when I began to see how to open that up and learn from my peers and from students how to move forward, into the 'craft' of teaching. Sociology and women's studies have given me important ways to bring my thinking about learning: who are the learners, how do they learn, where do they learn? I teach in many different arenas, not just in a typical classroom. I am always looking for new places, whether it's in the community, in the educational programs in the rape/spouse abuse crisis center, or if it's in innovative programs in the university ... to graduate students or undergraduate students. I'm interested in looking at educational processes in many different places because it helps me understand more about my own craft. Q: How does your teaching style or philosophy differ from others' and how does this improve your effectiveness in the classroom? A: I see the classroom as a dialogue between the teacher and the student. We're both learners in that setting, but I do have access to information, models, skills, research and background that these students don't have, so it's my job to bring that information to that dialogue and it's their job to bring themselves to that dialogue and to figure out how that fits with their growing understanding of a topic. Q: Look back at Helen Moore on her first day, in her first class as a teacher. How is she different from Helen Moore today? A: (Laughs) Some of those elements are still there and some of them I have removed gladly, happily, gleefully. I was much more directive, much more unidirectional in my teaching; I was using a banking model of education: 'Here's the knowledge, I'm banking it into the students and the payoff is someday that they learn how to use that knowledge.' I didn't know very much about college student development, how they developed cognitive skills and thinking strategies. Over the years my students gave me feedback that the information was important, the ideas were challenging, the structure and organizational aspects were positive, but they wanted more participation, more access, more dialogue, and I knew that was an area in which I was not very strong, so I went to different resources, senior faculty mentors, people in other disciplines, feminist pedagogy, scholarship on community and liberatory education models and I learned from them ways to open up and expand my teaching, make it more inclusive. Q: So your classes are typically structured around your questioning of the students and your dialogue with them? A: That's important to me. I'm not a socratic educator in the classic sense. I don't see that as my great skill. But I do want my students to gain some skills about asking questions, learning to write and speak, and question learning different models available to them so they can see how that improves their thinking, their analysis, and hopefully improves their problem solving. Q: How have students or their learning processes changed over your career? A: The changes have been in the faces in the classroom. It's a much more diverse group of people and I think that has strengthened us in many ways. It's challenged me as a teacher and it's challenged all the students in the classes to understand how that diversity works. I came to UNL because it was an open admissions university. The broad range of student abilities, interests, experiences, is a wonderful challenge to my teaching. We still don't have the diversity that would really bring a whole range of experiences to our students, whether that's because of lack of economic access to the class, or because students are unwilling or unable to be fully involved in their classes or fully identified in their classes. Q: What do you enjoy most about this stage of your career and where do you go from here? A: I do my favorite things; that's one of the reasons I love this job is because my scholarship, my research, my teaching, the professional work that I do, the sociological journals, all comes together. It links in important ways and it brings my teaching to a focus. I also have a firm philosophy on the importance of graduate education: I want our graduate students to have the full appreciation of the opportunities and responsibilities that they carry in scholarship and in teaching. My colleagues are very supportive. This is a department that encourages faculty to do their best in whatever dimension that work is. Without having had a women's studies program or really supportive sociology department I would be much more narrowly focused, and maybe some people would say that would be better. Maybe that would have met someone else's priority, but not mine. This certainly is more than enough for me to do right now. When I have spare time I'm working on my third book, I continue to publish articles and my scholarship continues although at time's it's at a simmering back pot on the stove, other times it's up front. I don't think I would be doing anything radically different in 10 years, but the balance may be different. Helen A. Moore, professor of sociology Ph.D. 1979, M.A., 1976, B.S., 1974, University of California, Riverside Specialization: Sociology of Education, Stratification, Inequality, Women, Race and Class Professor Sociology 1991- present; chair, 1992-97; associate professor 1985-1991; Director, Women's Studies Program, 1982-87; Director, Bureau of Sociological Research, 1981-83; assistant professor 1979-85 Editor, 1999-2003, "Teaching Sociology," the journal of the American Sociological Association UNL McNair Outstanding Undergraduate Mentor 1999, Chancellor's Commission on the Status of Women Award 1998, UNL Faculty Volunteer Spirit Award 1997, James Lake Academic Freedom Award 1996, NU Distinguished Department Teaching Award 1996; Chancellor's Exemplary Service to Students Award 1988, UNL College Distinguished Teaching Award 1985 Involvement with Minority Opportunities through School Transformation and NSF Research Experiences for Undergraduates; UNL Ronald E. McNair Undergraduate Research Program UNL Academy of Distinguished Teachers, 2000- By Kim Hachiya, Public Relations We know good teaching when we see it. Or do we? That's the question behind work done by members of UNL's Academy of Distinguished Teachers, who have been working for about a year to develop a framework for documenting teaching excellence. The resulting draft is ready for public review at a "Conversation on the Dimensions of Teaching" scheduled for 2:30-4:30 p.m. April 7 in the Nebraska Union. The conversation is co-sponsored by the Teaching Academy and the Academic Senate, which has invited faculty from all departments to participate. Faculty who did not receive personal invitations are also encouraged to attend. Dan Bernstein, professor of psychology, is the unofficial leader of Academy of Distinguished Teachers' efforts to create the framework. Bernstein has been working in this area of study for several years as a Carnegie Fellow. "When you talk to people about why teaching is skipped over in faculty evaluations, people say it's because they don't know how to measure good teaching. Student evaluations and voices are good tools, but they only present part of the picture," Bernstein said. "We want to get to those dimensions of teaching, those framing aspects of teaching, that can be presented as intellectual work." In some contexts, he said, occasionally promotion to full professor status hinges on a person's teaching record, Bernstein said. "What are we looking for in these individuals? How do we know a truly worthy teacher?" Bernstein said that in January 1999, about 200 faculty got together to talk about how to recognize good teaching. The table notes from the sessions were collected and summarized and hammered into a rough draft. For the past nine months, the teaching academy group has refined that draft, which is now being put forward for more review. Bernstein emphasizes that the April 7 event will be a true conversation and dialogue among faculty about the dimensions of teaching. He wants to avoid formal presentation and lecture and get down to the business of discussing, critiquing and improving the draft document. The draft document is available on the web at <> The draft framework has six dimensions - student learning, course intellectual content, instructional practice, reflective development of teaching, involvement in teacher leadership and appropriate student perceptions. Three levels of teaching competence have been chosen: inadequate performance, competent professional work and exemplary teaching. The majority of faculty are expected to fall into the professionally competent categories, Bernstein said. The exemplary categories, determined through peer review, might support merit raises or promotion based on teaching. The inadequate category might call for an external review to help the faculty member improve. There are 19 members of the academy, Bernstein said, and two members are added annually. The charter group was selected by the Office of Academic Affairs about five or six years ago. Now the body expands by selecting its own members. "The teaching academy really is the appropriate group to provide leadership in this area," said Gail Latta, academic senate president. "The senate recognizes that governance in this area is at the department level. What we hope to do is to facilitate the dialogue in helping departments come to internal consensus on how teaching is incorporated into tenure and review." Latta said that the framework helps "us recognize that teaching is not a one-dimensional activity. Because it's never been fully appreciated for its complexity and the multiple scholarships that are involved in its execution. We hope to tease out those dimensions to allow the various parts to be documented." Bernstein said the key is to determine was facets of a teaching portfolio that faculty wish to present as evidence of good teaching. Portfolios tend to be huge and unwieldy, and unreadable, he said. By developing the framework, "folks know what to represent and have a clear target in terms of what they need to provide evidence of their work product." "People sometimes view teaching as a performance. But the hour in the classroom is a very small piece of the act of teaching. It must be intellectually sound. Is the material up to date? What about the appropriateness of the approach. How is the person facilitating the learning environment? And most importantly, are the students learning?" he said. "Is there evidence of students' acquiring the deep understanding that we call learning?" Bernstein said that while students have primary responsibility or their own learning, faculty do have a role to play and the framework helps to more clearly define that role. For more information about the colloquium, contact the Academic Senate Office at 472-2573. A new publication, Teaching for Inclusion: A Resource Book for NU Faculty, has won positive comments. Suzanne Prenger, inclusive teaching and diversity specialist in the Teaching and Learning Center, edited the nearly 200-page book that is chockful of strategies for teaching for inclusion as well as facts about the university's students and comments from those students. Prenger worked on the book for about 18 months. "The Teaching and Learning Center was finding more and more faculty who are serious about their teaching and who are interested in ensuring learning. They want to know how to reflect diversity in their teaching, how to reach different groups and what helps students learn and what impedes them," she said. Most existing diversity education materials are aimed at K-12 teachers, Prenger said, so it became obvious that something new needed to be created for the post-secondary level. Her goal was to help faculty recognize the diversity that does exist on campus and to encourage faculty to think about their knowledge of these groups and how their preconception might be affecting their teaching. Chapters give demographic information specific to the state and UNL and have positive and negative comments from students. Chapters cover gender; social class; African American students; Latino/Hispanic students; Native American students; Asian American students; European American students; international students; gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students; religious diversity; special physical or learning disabilities; and non-traditional students. Students were interviewed to find out what strategies worked and that didn't. Not all the student comments are negative. Students were asked "what are faculty doing that help you learn?" Prenger said. Among responses: access to faculty during and outside of office hours, faculty who asked students "how can I be helpful," faculty who didn't publicly single out students but still found ways to be helpful. Evelyn Jacobson, associate vice chancellor for academic affairs, said the inclusion of student comments makes the book credible. Many of the student Both Prenger and Jacobson think the handbook will be used and will spark conversation about best-practices. "We hope we find strategies others are using that we haven't heard about yet," Jacobson said. Prenger said the project was time-consuming but intellectually enriching. "I enjoyed this terrifically," she said. "I learned from students and I found faculty really are willing and eager to do things." The publication was funded through the Faculty Liaison Task Force for Diversity, the office of the senior vice chancellor for academic affairs and the vice chancellor for IANR. The handbooks are available from the Teaching and Learning Center, 121 Benton Hall, 472-3079. A faculty-led group considering how the university can become a leading research university in the life sciences has issued its report. "We must emphasize research clusters and implement a structural reorganization if we want to be on the cutting edge in life sciences," said Tony Joern, professor of biological sciences and a co-chair of the Task Force on Integration and Enhancement of the Life Sciences. The task force was appointed in January, 1999 by Brian Foster, then dean of the College of Arts and Sciences; Donald Edwards, dean of the College of Agricultural Sciences and Natural Resources; and Darrell Nelson, dean of the Agricultural Research Division. The task force included nine faculty members from IANR, five from Arts and Sciences and two others; it was co-chaired by Joern, and David Mortensen, professor of agronomy. Mortensen replaced Mark Morrison, who left the university prior to the completion of the report. The task force was asked to provide recommendations for the future shape of life sciences programs at the university. Life sciences-related research and teaching is now scattered among a number of programs in arts and sciences, agriculture and natural resources and the agricultural research division. The report includes several recommendations including: o a more aggressive approach to obtain research funding. o organization of research clusters to coordinate cross-disciplinary activities in order to provide flexible and desirable programs in strategic research areas. o development of mechanisms to heighten institutional and faculty aspirations. o evaluation of administrative structures including restructuring of colleges. o increased faculty participation in development of research policy. o development of strong working relationships with the University of Nebraska Medical Center. "This report is candid, creative and proposes ideas that will most likely be perceived as controversial," said Richard Edwards, senior vice chancellor for academic affairs. "But we must be responsive to the best thinking of our faculty." IANR Vice Chancellor Irv Omtvedt commented, "They have challenged us to remove existing institutional barriers to developing enhanced research and teaching programs, and this action is essential if there are barriers that prevent the university from developing strong integrated programs in the life sciences." The report will be discussed in open campus forums scheduled for 3 p.m. April 7 in the Beadle Center Auditorium and 3:30 p.m. April 11 in room N177 of the Beadle Center. A full copy of the report can be seen on the university Web site at:<h ttp://> B>. For questions regarding the Scarlet's Web pages, [email protected] (402) 472-8518, Fax: (402) 472-7825

Return to Transcripts main page NANCY GRACE Scientists Testify About Evidence in Casey Anthony Murder Trial Aired June. And instead of calling 911, father George hides Caylee`s body, leaving it to rot. Tot mom also claims father George and brother Lee both sexually molest her. Bombshell tonight. Torpedo to the defense. A renowned scientist confirms tot mom`s car reeking of the powerful knock-out drug chloroform plus the, quote, "shocking" stench of a dead body. In fact, the scientist jumps back several feet at the smell. The FBI on the witness stand describes an alleged hair of 2-year-old Caylee`s with a death band around the hair root found in tot mom`s trunk. This as defense attorney Jose Baez insists it wasn`t little Caylee in tot mom`s trunk, it was pounds and pounds of raw hamburger meat. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m a trace evidence examiner at the FBI laboratory. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My areas of expertise include anthropology, biology, chemistry... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am an assistant supervisor of the crime scene. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Scientific testimony is dominating the Casey Anthony murder trial. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my label identifying what`s inside the can. CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: It`s sickening. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was sealed with evidence tape and my initials around the top. CASEY ANTHONY: It`s disgusting. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the amount of chloroform that you found surprise you? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were shocked. CASEY ANTHONY: People really need to get a life. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have never seen chloroform in that level. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has a darkened band at the root portion of the hair consistent with apparent decomposition. CASEY ANTHONY: I know the most negative stuff that`s being said. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was the odor in the vehicle the same? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am. There still was a strong odor. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The odor... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What died? CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would recognize this as human decomposition. (END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Torpedo to the defense. A renowned scientist confirms tot mom`s car reeking of the powerful knockout drug chloroform, plus the, quote, "shocking" stench of a dead body. In fact, the scientist jumps back several feet at the smell. This as defense attorney Jose Baez suggests it wasn`t little Caylee in the trunk, it was pounds and pounds of raw hamburger meat. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smelled of death. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stages of decomposition, fresh stage, bloat stage, active decay, dry stage. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smell of a body or decomposition. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s a possibility, yes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I essentially jumped back a foot or two. The odor was extremely overwhelming. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was very potent. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was shocked that that little bitty could have that much odor associated with it. CASEY ANTHONY: I know what I`m honestly up against. You guys understand what I`m honestly up against. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The source of the odor that you analyzed from the car? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Consistent with human decomposition. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hair was a Caucasian head hair that had characteristics of apparent decomposition. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An overpowering smell. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a decomposing human body in the trunk of that car. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can find no other plausible explanation. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still smell? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At the end of the day, you still can`t say that that hair came from a dead body. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has characteristics that are consistent with that, but I can`t say absolutely. CASEY ANTHONY: It sucks for them because I have nothing to say. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank goodness I don`t find all these children (INAUDIBLE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, Judge. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could find also these items in a hamburger. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if that`s true. First of all, the hamburger would have to be completely raw. You`d have to have a huge percentage of fat in it. (END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: We are live here at the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the very latest at the end of the courthouse day in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony, accused in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee, Caylee`s body found just 15 houses from the Anthony home, discarded, thrown away in a makeshift pet cemetery in a densely wooded area. Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, bombshells on the stand. Not only do we hear from renowned scientist Arpad Vass regarding the stench in the trunk, but Jose Baez through the witness stand suggests that raw hamburger meat could have made the same results, referring specifically to the fatty acids that came from Caylee`s body as it decomposed, leaving that stain at the base of the car trunk. He actually said, Could it have been hamburger meat, raw hamburger meat? JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You better believe he did. Now, this started on direct because there were paper towels in the trunk of that car that were found through chemical analysis to have fatty acids. Doctor Vass testified that`s the breakdown of human tissue. But on cross-examination, Jose Baez said, But it could be hamburger meat on those paper towels. The response from the witness -- You know, it would have to be raw hamburger meat, there would have to be many, many pounds, and somebody would have to eat with a paper bag over their head because it was anaerobic conditions, without any air at all. GRACE: This is what happened in court. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could find also these items in a hamburger. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if that`s true. First of all, the hamburger would have to be completely raw. You`d have to have a huge percentage of fat in it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could also find this in chicken. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not know if that`s true or not. (END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: What was that last thing he said, Jean? What did he... CASAREZ: He said chicken. GRACE: What`s it going to be, raw hamburger meat, Arby`s, Chick-Fil-A by the end of the week? What is he thinking? CASAREZ: Well, here`s what the defense is trying to show. They don`t want a body in that trunk. They are trying to give credence, actually, to his results by saying, But it`s all trash. It was trash in the trunk, and that`s what you found through your chemical analysis. GRACE: To Diane Dimond, special correspondent with "Newsweek" and DailyBeast. Diane, I just -- I -- to me, that is making a mockery of science, to suggest to this jury -- and a lot of people are saying, Oh, can this jury understand science? Well, listen, let me tell you something. If a bunch of TV journalists can understand it, I think that jury is going to be able to understand it, as well. And to suggest that this stain in the bottom of the trunk, which clearly, according to Arpad Vass, the scientist from Oak Ridge, says is from a human decomposing body, to suggest it`s raw hamburger meat or chicken? DIANE DIMOND, "NEWSWEEK"/DAILYBEAST: Yes. You know, it`s that old trick that lawyers do, Nancy. You know this trick very well -- throw a lot of spaghetti against the wall and hope something sticks. I kept looking for a fair fight there today... GRACE: No, actually, Diane... DIMOND: ... and I didn`t really see it. GRACE: I`ve never thrown spaghetti on the wall to a jury... DIMOND: Well, you were never a defense attorney. GRACE: ... and hope it sticks. DIMOND: You were never a criminal defense attorney. Look, you know what Jose Baez is trying to do. He`s trying to give some other possible reason why the trunk smelled the way it did. But look, Nancy, this is not the only person saying it. Cindy said it, George said it, Lee said it, the man at the tow yard said it. This car... GRACE: Simon Birch (ph). DIMOND: ... right -- like a dead body. And now we have a scientist saying it, too. So I don`t know what Baez was trying to prove, but I don`t think he did himself or his client any good today. GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Darryl Cohen, defense attorney, former attorney for Jesse Grund, the fiance of tot mom, Penny Douglas Furr, defense attorney who`s tried many, many criminal cases. To both of you. Isn`t there a point where you know you`re not going to win arguing the science? That`s like arguing that fingerprints aren`t for real, all right? So just drop it. You got to come up with another argument as to why your client`s fingerprint is on the murder weapon, all right? Number one. You`re not going to win arguing science. You`re not going to win arguing methodology. So at a certain point, shouldn`t you, Darryl Cohen, just sit down and shut up and come up with a good argument in closing argument as to why the facts are as they are? DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I agree with you. Sometimes and many times, when it comes to scientific and forensic evidence, the best cross-examination is, No questions, Your Honor, and sit down, get it away from the jury so that they no longer have to pound (ph) on the type of testimony that they`ve just heard. This is stupid, in my view, and it`s really hurting their client. GRACE: Or another thing, Penny, in a nutshell, what they could do is forget the ridiculous cross-exam of comparing the decomposing fatty acids coming from Caylee`s body to chicken, raw chicken or hamburger meat, drop it, limit the cross-exam and bring their own scientists at the end of their case to combat what Arpad Vass said. Why did they do this, Penny? PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I agree that they should bring their own expert. I think they`re just trying to get this expert to admit that there are other things that it could possibly be because all of reports seem to say it could be human decomposition, it may be human decomposition, but they`re not saying it is. GRACE: We are taking your calls, camped here outside the Orlando courthouse. To Natisha Lance. Bottom line, is the jury going to be able to smell those air samples taken out of tot mom`s trunk? NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: I think that`s something that still has yet to be determined, Nancy. Judge Perry has yet to rule on that. But there is so much evidence that keeps on coming in about that smell in the trunk of car. Not only did we hear from Arpad Vass today, but he also said that of the 10 components that would make up decomposition, this trunk consisted of eight. GRACE: We have now moved into the second phase of the state`s case. Up until now, we have heard a chronological series of what happened once Caylee was last seen. We`ve seen tot mom`s bizarre behavior in the days after Caylee goes missing. And now it`s time for hard science. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you first opened it, what was your reaction? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa! I know what that smells like. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) smell took my breath away. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I essentially jumped back a foot or two. The odor was extremely overwhelming and strong. CASEY ANTHONY: People have been lying to you guys not for our best interests, not for our family, not for Caylee. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to Caylee? CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do. CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, something happened to Caylee. The longer this goes, the worse it`s going to for everyone. Everyone! The worse it`s going to be for everyone. Right now, everything you`ve told us, we`ve locked you into a lie. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is a very effective liar. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She spins tales, all these crazy stories about all this stuff. CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: You`re blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail by yourself for telling lies? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As she hung up, she said, Oh, my God, I`m such a good liar. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything you`re telling me is a lie, correct? CASEY ANTHONY: Not everything that I`ve told you. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers. CASEY ANTHONY: What do I have to say? I want my daughter back. I want to be with my family. That`s it. That`s all they need to know because that`s -- that`s all I have to say. (END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: We are here outside the Orange County, Orlando, courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee. Today, bombshells on the stand. A renowned scientist, Arpad Vass, from the Oak Ridge Laboratories in Tennessee to describe the overwhelming stench he said he knew immediately was a dead body. But then did he have the science to back it up? Defense attorney Jose Baez actually claiming to the jury through the witness stand that possibly the source of the fatty acid stain found in the bottom of tot mom`s trunk was actually from raw hamburger meat or maybe even raw chicken. The scientist pointed out it would take pounds and pounds of raw hamburger meat in tot mom`s trunk to replicate the stain that was found there. He wouldn`t even commit to that. That as the jury sat and listened to -- first let me go to Natisha Lance. Natisha, what was tot mom`s reaction during all of this? I mean, when I found out that John David had scraped his toe and it had been bleeding for about 10 minutes at the bottom of the swimming pool we were at, I was -- I couldn`t wait to go find a Band-Aid. And she`s listening to evidence about her child`s decomposing body in the trunk of her car. Did she have any reaction at all? LANCE: There was no reaction from Casey Anthony whatsoever, Nancy. You`re absolutely right. You`re hearing about the organs becoming liquid, and no reaction from Casey Anthony whatsoever. The jurors, however, were listening so closely to Arpad Vass, they were leaned over in the seats. A few of them were even taking notes. And also, George and Cindy Anthony in the back of the courtroom. Cindy Anthony was also scribbling down notes. GRACE: You know, I don`t know how much more George and Cindy Anthony can endure. What we`re showing you are a lot of the exhibits in the courtroom today, just mounds and mounds of exhibits in brown paper bags. They were opened up, many of them. And also, you saw a dryer sheet. It was proven in court today that -- remember Cindy Anthony, grandmother Cindy, put Febreze and dryer sheets to try to mask or get rid of the stench. They could not cause what was found in that trunk. To Michael -- Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver. What do they mean by fatty acids resulting from human decomposition? DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: All humans have fat underneath our skin and around our organs. That fat decomposes into a series of chemical compounds, and those chemical compounds are what Dr. Vass has looked for with his instruments. GRACE: Dr. Arnall, how can Jose Baez with a straight face compare this to raw hamburger meat? I don`t understand. ARNALL: Nancy, he`s in a tough situation. There`s probably very little that`s going to be able to be said that would dispute Dr. Vass`s testimony. He`s obligated to say something, but this is probably the wrong choice. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CINDY ANTHONY: It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car. We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl! I need to find her! I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at. CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at! Are you kidding me? (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found hair samples in the trunk of the car. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you find any hairs that showed evidence of apparent decomposition? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the items showed -- had a hair that exhibited the characteristics of decomposition. CASEY ANTHONY: Life`s not fair. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re similar in length and color to that of Caylee. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I could just -- I couldn`t even describe what... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it an offensive (ph) smell? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Awful. CASEY ANTHONY: They`re twisting stuff. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) smell (INAUDIBLE) CASEY ANTHONY: I wish that, like I said, that none of this would have happened. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does it (ph) still smell? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir. CASEY ANTHONY: I`m going to hang up and just walk away. (END VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: We are live here at the Orlando courthouse in the case of tot mom Casey Anthony on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl. You see her there, Caylee Anthony. Out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. And of course, we also heard about the hair, allegedly Caylee`s hair, in tot mom`s car trunk, with a death band around it. And Jose Baez tried to suggest, You don`t know whether that was Cindy, grandmother Cindy, tot mom`s hair, Caylee`s hair, or Cindy`s mother`s hair, Caylee`s great-grandmother`s hair. But Karen Lowe, the FBI analyst, didn`t she respond that microscopically, it could not have been theirs? I mean, haven`t all of those women had their hair tinted or dyed or frosted or highlighted? Let`s see a shot of tot mom with her hair frosted. I mean, you can look under a microscope and isolate or eliminate -- there she is with blond hair, for Pete`s sake -- all of the other women because they`ve had their hair treated, Ellie. ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. In a lot of the older pictures of Casey Anthony, you see her with that short blond hair. She didn`t have that naturally dark hair, like we see her with now. And what Karen Korsberg Lowe testified to is that this hair was similar to the hair from Caylee`s hairbrush, but that it was dissimilar from Casey Anthony`s hair. GRACE: Now, also, we know that there was not a root on the hair, so they could not get nuclear DNA. They did get mitochondrial DNA, which isolates it down -- limits it down to one of the women in that family. We know it was Caylee`s, 2-year-old Caylee`s, tot mom`s, Casey Anthony, her mother, Cindy, or her grandmother, Cindy`s mother. But there was a death band on it, and none of the other women are dead, Ellie! It had to be Caylee`s hair from her head post-mortem in that trunk. JOSTAD: Well, right, Nancy. And that`s the point -- the defense was trying to gain a little ground there by suggesting you can`t say for sure it`s Caylee. By as you explained, by the process of elimination, she`s the only maternal family member -- female family member that`s dead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The manner of death in this case is homicide. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You stated that chloroform can be a byproduct of decomposition, correct? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: There`s no evidence. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chloroform was shockingly high, unusually high. CINDY ANTHONY: Casey has never done any harm to her child. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The skull dropped out with hair around it and duct tape across the mouth. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the other hairs that you examined have the postmortem root band? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what 12 days in the back of the car that stunk so bad? She is not a murder. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you come to any opinion about the source of the odor that you analyzed from the carpet? CINDY ANTHONY: I`m a nurse. I thought human decomposition. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I consider it consistent with human decomposition. CINDY ANTHONY: My husband is a deputy sheriff years ago, and the first thing he thought was human decomposition. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can find no other plausible explanation. CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have had some mistruths out there or half-truths, but she`s not a murderer. CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: That my little kid is OK. It still feels like she`s close to home. (END OF VIDEO CLIP) NANCY GRACE, HOST: Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. We are camped here outside the Orange County, Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl. Caylee`s body found just 15 houses from the Anthony home thrown into a makeshift pet cemetery in a densely wooded area, left there to rot. Today bombshell in the courtroom and torpedo to the defense as the state brings on a highly renounced scientist to describe the stench of a dead body in tot mom`s trunk and science to back it up with air samples. Not only that, he describes fatty acid from human decomposition staining and soaking into the carpet in tot mom`s trunk. The defense compares that fatty acid, suggests it could have been pounds and pounds of raw hamburger meat or raw chicken left in tot mom`s trunk. We are taking your calls, but Jean Casarez, was there any evidence that there was raw hamburger meat or raw chicken in the trunk? JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": We heard no in testimony today, but those paper towels were found in the trash bag, and so then I think that begins the defense argument that it was just part of trash, food trash. GRACE: What do you mean paper towels? CASAREZ: Paper towels had the fatty acids that were the beginning of decomposition of human remains, those paper towels were inside a trash bag filled with remnants of food trash. GRACE: You`re seeing what was taken out of the trunk. To Diane Dimond, explain the residue on the paper towels in tot mom`s trash in her trunk. DIANE DIMOND, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, NEWSWEEK, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, they took that bag, of course, out of the tow yard`s trash can, and when they took it into the lab and started to look at it, they found fatty acids on it. They also found, Nancy, traces of THC, marijuana. So when I think back, let`s see, didn`t Tony Lazzaro and some of his roommates say that they smoked marijuana in that apartment? She was always cooking and cleaning there. So I`m assuming that that was the genesis of the paper towels. But you know the whole thing that -- with Jose Baez talking about well, maybe it was hamburger, maybe it was chicken, you know, to my mind -- and I was talking to Dr. Larry Kobilinsky in the green room a minute ago -- he should have just stuck to this fact. Dr. Vass, has ever done the kind of tests that you have done? No. Oh, they`re brand new? Yes. So they haven`t been validated by any other scientist in your field? That`s right. And left it at that. Instead he asked question after question that just sort of went nowhere, objected and objected during the state`s direct examination. And again, I`m going to repeat myself. I don`t think he did himself any good today. As Natisha says, the jury was listening really closely to this scientist. GRACE: Well, also, Diane, I find it somehow offensive. I`m going to have to analyze by having that reaction that he compared the decomposing fatty acids from Caylee`s body to raw hamburger meat or raw chicken. It`s just something about that comparison, saying that -- DIMOND: Very cavalier. GRACE: It`s just offensive to me personally. DIMOND: Yes. GRACE: Yes, it is. Well, you`re right. And as a matter of fact, Diane, isn`t it true this is the first time not only in Florida but anywhere that air samples have been brought in in a criminal murder trial? DIMOND: It is. And you know they went through a Frye hearing. The judge agreed to allow it. You know, you think back to the first time they ever allowed DNA. This is pioneering science, and Dr. Vass is the pioneer who`s doing it. The fact of the matter is, it has never been validated by anyone else, but everything else has. The fatty acids on the paper towels, the stains on the rug, the chloroform levels. We`ve been testing chloroform levels for decades. So why -- again, why Baez didn`t pinpoint in on the weak spot of Vass, that it`s never been validated, the air testing only, I don`t know. I`m at a loss. GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Penny Douglas Furr, defense attorney, Darryl Cohen, defense attorney, former lawyer for Jesse Grund, tot mom`s ex-fiance. I expect a lot to be made in closing arguments by the defense, Darryl Cohen, that the scientist did not bring the actual photos of Caylee`s hair with the death band around it. But Darryl, I recall when I was a brand new prosecutor the first time I had brought in DNA. And I insisted the crime lab scientist bring the actual testing and put it in front of jury, and when you -- I looked at it and went, OK, what a colossal mistake this was on my part because it looked like undeveloped film. You have to have a trained eye to see what they see. And that`s why the state is not bringing in the actual hair before the jury. DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy. It seems to me that the jury is interested in the persona of the person who is testifying. They`re interested in the credentials, and they`re interested in what took place and how the evidence was analyzed. And to bring it in would be unusual and it really would not do them any good. GRACE: What about it, Penny? PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the main thing that concerns me with this Dr. Vass and all the scientific expert is that he is now, to my mind, becoming an advocate here because it is unusual. He`s the first one to introduce it, so he`s motivated for it to go with the state so it becomes good science. And I think that`s a major problem in this case for the state. GRACE: To Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler," joining us out of Washington, D.C. Pat, you have analyzed so many criminal cases and murder cases. Can you explain why tot mom can sit there and listen to this -- and I`m not saying she`s guilty or innocent. But can sit here and listen to her -- to the testimony regarding her child`s body -- allegedly decomposing in a trunk. I think they`d have to put me on a stretcher and take me out. PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, that`s because you`re a loving mom. And we`re not talking about you but we`re talking about Casey Anthony who has no love at all for her child because she`s a psychopath.. GRACE: And what does that tell you, Pat, about her profile? BROWN: As I say, she`s a straight-up psychopath, and that`s what Jose Baez is up against. He`s in real bad shape there. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, you testified under direct examination that the smell of human decomposition is unique? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Essentially jumped back a foot or two. The odor was extremely overwhelming. (END OF VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: You have this missing child. CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl. BAEZ: And you have this hair that you say has banding at the root. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caucasian, had hair, that had characteristics of apparent signs of decomposition. CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned that something called a bloat stage. CASEY ANTHONY: Hey, guess what? That happened to me. CINDY ANTHONY: Bloating was huge. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Microorganisms in the intestinal tract. Are the byproduct of bacterial metabolism is the generation of gas. CASEY ANTHONY: Come on. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lovely breakfast conversation. CINDY ANTHONY: The smell in the car was like something I had never -- it was pretty strong. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was atrocious. It was very potent. It was eye-opening. BAEZ: It`s not sent to nuclear DNA to confirm that it was Caylee`s, correct? CASEY ANTHONY: Please stop it. BAEZ: So best that we have at this point. CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, my god. Calling you guys, waste, huge waste. BAEZ: Is that the hair belonged to Caylee, Casey, Cindy or even Cindy`s mother. Any other maternal relative. (END OF VIDEO CLIP) GRACE: We are taking your calls here outside the Orange County, Orlando courthouse. Out to Kelly in Michigan. Hi, Kelly, what`s your question? KELLY, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Hi, Nancy. I love your show. GRACE: Thank you. KELLY: My question is about Casey, and they keep saying that the defense -- their defense is that she got sexually molested and that`s why she went to school perfectly fine. But we`ve seen in the jailhouse videos, we`ve seen her in the courtroom get angry or cry. How can she have these emotions now, but not for the child and they can say that that`s because of the sexual abuse? GRACE: You know that`s a great question to throw to our psychiatrist. Joining us tonight, Dr. Doug Bremner, professor of psychiatry and radiology, author of "Before You Take That Pill." Dr. Bremner, thank you for being with us. Can you respond to her question? DR. DOUG BREMNER, PROFESSOR, PSYCHIATRY AND RADIOLOGY, AUTHOR, "BEFORE YOU TAKE THAT PILL": Yes, Nancy. I don`t think there is any characteristic pattern of behavior you`d expect from someone who is sexually abused. I actually looked at her behavior in the courtroom and said something has happened to this woman, and I was not at all surprised when the allegations of childhood sexual abuse came out. And her bizarre behavior, lying, patterns of deception, what do you do in a family where there`s incest that`s kept a secret? You grow up learning how to lie, and that`s just what we expect from these kinds of people. GRACE: Dr. Bremner, are you suggesting that you believe she has been sexually molested? BREMNER: That`s my opinion, Nancy. I don`t have any proof of it, and no one else does either. GRACE: Because she said so? BREMNER: Because of her behavior, because of the bizarre letters that were written by her father to her and the -- what I think is inappropriate language that he uses in talking about her and her physical appearance. That`s not the way a father should talk to his daughter. GRACE: What inappropriate language? BREMNER: He made comments to her about her weight, about her physical appearance when she`s in jail accused of murdering her daughter. I`ve read the letters -- they`re there out there online. You can read them. They`re available. GRACE: The letter is written by tot mom? BREMNER: No, written by her father to her in jail. They`re not proof of sexual abuse. GRACE: Well, Dr. Bremner -- no, they`re not. Dr. Bremner, did you think that possibly that was in response to her writing or saying to him in a jailhouse visit everything she was eating and that she`s gaining weight? Were you familiar with that? BREMNER: Well, Nancy, I`m a father of a young woman. I don`t write letters like that to my daughter. So I`m not saying that that`s proof of abuse, but I`m saying it`s not inconsistent with that type of pattern. GRACE: Well, in my mind, since tot mom made an issue of it, I don`t find that unusual at all that he wrote back in that letter and I really do not believe for one second that her father and her brother molested her. Let`s just see if she takes the stand and describes that. We`ll see. We are taking your calls. But first, I want to go back it to the lawyers. Penny Douglas Furr, Darryl Cohen. Penny, you brought about Arpad Vass, the lead scientist in the air samples being cross-examined on him being the -- well, you brought up him being the pioneer in this field. But he was actually cross-examined by Baez claiming that he had a financial stake, an invention that he come up with to help detect dead bodies that have been hidden. Well, Baez tried the same thing on Karen Lowe, the FBI analyst, about the hair. He said she had a stake at her testimony because she works for the FBI. Isn`t that going to wear thin if he makes the same cross-exam on every witness? DOUGLAS FURR: Well, Nancy, I don`t buy it with the FBI. I don`t see how she would have benefit. But I would have gone with the expert if indeed he does have a patent on the machine and it`s successful in this case, he could benefit financially. So I think the scientist maybe would be more so. I think he hurts it by going after the FBI agent because what would she had? GRACE: What about it, Darryl? COHEN: Well, I think -- I agree with you, Nancy. It wears completely thin. You hit it one time, you leave it, you go, and then go on. Instead it`s over and over and over again. And the jury stops hearing him. It becomes white noise. GRACE: Kelly in Illinois. Hi, Kelly. What`s your question, dear? KELLY, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: I have -- first, I just love you. I think you`re the best. And second, I`m -- can they possibly get fingerprints from the tape or the heart-shaped sticker at all? And the -- (CROSSTALK) GRACE: Well, the heart-shaped sticker -- what`s your second question, dear? KELLY: Can she appeal it to prolong her death sentence? GRACE: Can she appeal it? KELLY: Yes, once she`s convicted, can she appeal it? GRACE: Let me tell you this, Kelly in Illinois. If there`s conviction, there`s going to be about 20 years` worth of appeals. So the answer to that is yes. But let`s burn that bridge when we get there. First, to the prints on the tape and the heart-shaped sticker. The heart-shaped sticker was completely used up. The residue from it in the testing of it. The residue portion was completely used up. Now let`s talk about prints. To Jean Casarez, what do we know about prints on the tape or the heart-shaped sticker itself? CASAREZ: No prints found, but remember, that area was underwater for a long time. The elements got to it. Not surprising there are no fingerprints. GRACE: Another thing about fingerprints. Back to you, Diane Dimond. We learned over the weekend that the gas can had no fingerprints on it, and it was suggested to the expert that the gas can had been wiped clean. But the expert said no, it hadn`t been wiped clean. I just couldn`t make out fingerprints. DIMOND: That was really odd to me. Because I remember seeing a picture of that big cylindrical gas can. And if it`s full, I would have a tough time -- I would have to hold it by the bottom as I put gasoline into the car. So I was surprised that there were no fingerprints there and there were none on the handle of it. It said to me that it had to have been wiped down, but he said no. He`s the expert. GRACE: Well, we can see where that`s going. On cross-exam they`re going to argue that George Anthony, the retired -- the former cop, knew to wipe the gas can clean. Very quickly, I want to tell you about a search for missing Indiana co-ed. Twenty-year-old Lauren Spierer was last seen June 3, leaving a restaurant near campus, heading to her apartment in Bloomington. She never made it. Keys found one block away. Take a look, everybody, please. She`s only 4`11", 90 pounds, blonde hair, blue eyes. If you have information, please call Bloomington Police, 812-339-4477. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Been hanging out with friends and partying at various locations pretty much that evening. And she had gone to this friend`s house and was there for probably two hours. (END OF VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) GRACE: And on another note, joining us tonight, Kristin Bibik, reporter with 660 News Calgary. She`s in court all day long but last week I told you about running into Jose Baez coming out of the court house, smiling and posing for all of his female fans, snapping photos for a long line of young ladies. And as a matter of fact, Kristin, you were -- they`re the shot right there, and it`s you, Kristin. How did that happen? KRISTIN BIBIK, REPORTER, 660 NEWS CALGARY, IN COURT TODAY, POSING FOR PHOTO WITH JOSE BAEZ: You know what, Nancy, that`s right, it is me. Initially we were trying to be subtle. I feel the way I think a lot of people do that Jose Baez is in this for the publicity, to feel important, to get attention. And so we tried at first to be subtle. My sister said, OK, I`m going to go and take a picture, I`m going to jump ahead, and I kind of stood a couple of feet away but pointed because I work for a 24-hour on these radio stations. Pictures are very important for the Web site. We have to post them on 660News.com. And all of a sudden Jose Baez, he catches wind that we`re trying to get a picture, he jumps in, Nancy. He puts his arms around us, hey, hey, do you want a picture? And I was totally caught off-guard because here, you think that you conduct yourself in a professional manner, there`s so many cameras all around, and he was just relishing in the spotlight. Enjoy relishing, Jose, because tomorrow will be catch-up. GRACE: Well, there you have it. I just happened to be outside the courthouse to witness the whole thing with Baez, king of the courthouse, a female fan in each arm. Well, you know what? Like she said, we`ll see how it works out tomorrow. Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Benjamin Laymon, 22, Mount Vernon, Ohio, killed Iraq. On a second tour awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Global War on Terrorism, Service Medal. Loved football, basketball, caring for children, remembered for a sense of humor. Leaves behind parents Gail and James, brothers Andrew, Trevor and Kurt. Benjamin Laymon, American hero. Thanks for our guests, but especially to you for being with us tonight. And tonight we remember Kentucky mother Melissa Patrick, shot to death, November 2008 after being kidnapped by an escaped felon. This weekend would have been her 41st birthday. Robin Mapel, convicted for murder, sentenced to life. Justice served. We have not forgotten Melissa Patrick. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. We will be here at the Orlando courthouse where finally unfolding, justice for Caylee. Until tomorrow night, good night, friend. END Weather forecast

Return to Transcripts main page SHOWBIZ TONIGHT The Fascination with the Casey Anthony Murder Trial; Reese Witherspoon`s Reality Rant; Kate Gosselin`s SHOWBIZ Newsmaker Interview; Hollywood Love Check Aired June 6, 2011 - 23:00:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. A.J. HAMMER, HOST: Tonight, the Casey Anthony murder trial, a story possibly more wild than anything we`ve seen on "The Jerry Springer Show." So what does Jerry Springer think? He`s right here for a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. I`m A.J. Hammer. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Big news breaking on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT - Reese`s reality rant. Why Reese Witherspoon went on the warpath over reality shows. Was her target Kim Kardashian? Paris Hilton? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REESE WITHERSPOON, ACTRESS: I get it. All right. It`s cool to be bad, but it`s also possible to make it in Hollywood without a reality show. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: Is Reese right? What does reality show star Kate Gosselin think about Reese`s reality rant? I`ll ask her, because Kate Gosselin is right here tonight for a headline-making SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. And will she ever get back together with former hubby, Jon? SHOWBIZ TONIGHT`s Hollywood love check. Scarlett Johansson and Sean Penn`s shocking new appearance together. Revelations tonight about Jennifer Aniston`s new guy. And big news that Kim Kardashian is working on a pre- nup. TV`s most provocative entertainment news show breaks news right now. (MUSIC) Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer coming to you from New York City. And as the Casey Anthony murder trial got even more bizarre today, I was thinking this is possibly a story that`s even more outrageous than anything that we`ve ever seen on "The Jerry Springer Show." So what does Jerry have to say? Well, Jerry is right here and he`s going to join me in a few minutes to sound off about that, and also about this - Reese`s reality rage. Tonight the burning question, just who was Reese Witherspoon targeting in her remarkable attack on women in reality shows? And in some cases, their sex tape. Oh, I don`t know. Could it be Kim Kardashian? Could it be Paris Hilton? SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you that Reese`s rant about reality stars and sex tapes at the MTV Movie Awards made big news today. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) (voice-over) It`s the wrath of Reese. Reese Witherspoon may be Hollywood`s good girl, but she`s totally over all those bad girls. WITHERSPOON: Oh, my god! HAMMER: Reese Witherspoon was honored at the MTV movie awards with their generation award. And she wasted no time taking a few potshots at some starlets in the younger generation. - ROB SHUTER, COLUMNIST, "POPEATER.COM": This is totally by surprise. Nobody expected this from Reese. HAMMER: In Reese`s charming style, she laid out her criticism with a wink and a smile. In her crosshairs, anyone who has ever made a sex tape. Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton, watch out. WITHERSPOON: When I came up in this business, you made a sex tape. You were embarrassed and you hid it under your bed. SHUTER: This felt like it had been bubbling up in Reese for a long time. I know a lot of actresses in Hollywood who also feel the same. HAMMER: But did Reese stop there? Oh, no. Also in her crosshairs, any star who has ever taken a naked photo of themselves. WITHERSPOON: If you take naked pictures of yourself on your cell phone, you hide your face, people. Hide your face. HAMMER: I`m thinking that`s a lot of face-hiding in Hollywood. SHUTER: I think that Reese is pretty angry about what she sees out there. HAMMER: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT wants to know, is Reese speaking the truth or alienating an entire generation of reality TV starlets? "PopEater.com" columnist, Rob Shuter says reality stars might be mad if they weren`t so focused on, well, themselves. SHUTER: I don`t think the reality stars care less about this. I also think the few reality stars that I have met are so self-absorbed that they will think she`s talking about somebody else. HAMMER: And who knows, she could have single-handedly launched an anti- reality campaign. It wasn`t just reality stars that got a verbal one-two punch. She also dished a zinger to "Water for Elephants" co-star, Robert Pattinson. He joked that he`s worked with Reese in two films. Once, she played his mother; the second time, his lover. Reese joked right back. WITHERSPOON: By the way, Rob, the punch line to your joke was I played your mother and then we had a sex scene. So really you`re the best mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in Hollywood. SHUTER: This is what`s so great about Reese and why she`s the perfect person to give this message to the audience. She`s naughty. HAMMER: She`s naughty with a whole lot of nice. And Reese`s main message of the evening was just that - it`s cool to be nice. WITHERSPOON: So for all the girls out there, it`s possible to be a good girl. I`m going to try and make it cool. HAMMER: And maybe, just maybe Reese has launched a brand-new campaign for nice girls in Hollywood. SHUTER: I think Reese has opened the floodgates. Reese has now made it cool to say you do not like reality TV. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAMMER: I agree. I think it`s going to be very interesting to see if others are going to join in in Reese`s crusade. Did Reese just alienate a generation of stars by bashing reality TV, though? Joining me tonight from Hollywood, the great Jerry Springer. Jerry, of course, is the host of the fantastic show, "Baggage." The third season debuted tonight on the Game Show Network. Jerry, I`ve got to say I didn`t expect Reese to say what she said at the MTV movie awards. Let`s take another look at her reality rage. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WITHERSPOON: I just want to say actual the girls out there, like, I know it`s cool to be bad. I get it. All right. It`s cool to be bad. But it`s also possible to make it in Hollywood without a reality show. And - (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) You know, when I came up in this business, you made a sex tape, you were embarrassed and you hid it under your bed. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: I think that`s perfect. Sounds to me like Reese is taking some pretty clear shots at Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton. And I think what she said is great because I`m sure there a lot of young girls out there looking at this meteoric rise to fame of today`s reality stars thinking, you know, being bad is the best recipe for success in Hollywood. But Jerry, do you think Reese maybe just alienated a whole generation of stars or even fans by bashing reality TV? JERRY SPRINGER, HOST, "BAGGAGE" ON THE GAME SHOW NETWORK: No, I don`t think she alienated anybody because, first of all, she`s so cool. And basically, she saying what any parent would say to their young teenage daughter or to their kids. You know, have common sense. You know, don`t do things that at some point in your life you`re going to regret. So I don`t know that there`s anything she said that someone should feel bad about. She spoke the truth. HAMMER: Yes. And talent rules and I think that was the point. I hope that came across to a lot of these young girls. And last night at the MTV movie awards, Reese also had words of wisdom to those stars who find themselves, well, shall we say in the middle of say a nude photo scandal. Watch that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WITHERSPOON: If you take naked pictures of yourself on your cell phone, you hide your face, people. Hide your face. It`s totally possible - for all the girls out there, it`s possible to be a good girl. I`m going to try and make it cool. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: Yes. And the star reaction was swift, Jerry. Let me read a couple of comments. Julianne Hough went on Twitter and tweeted, "Love Reese Witherspoon. Good girls do exist and can make it in Hollywood. Thanks for being a great idol and one of mine." Now, Lindsay Lohan - I`m thinking, she must have been passing time on her house arrest watching Reese`s speech last night. She went on Twitter and gushed, "I love Reese Witherspoon so much." I agree. Great role model for people like Lindsay and a lot of other stars. Jerry, is Reese giving Hollywood a long overdue reality check? SPRINGER: Yes, I think so, but I think most people know that. I mean, I think people look at these reality shows and they understand what it is. No one takes it that seriously. I mean, sure, young people - you know, they always get excited about people they like or stars or things like that. But I don`t think anyone in the business really thinks that this is the highest art form there is. I mean, no one looks at my show and says, "Wow, that`s art." It is what it is. But clearly, the most talented people - they`re the ones that will be successful. HAMMER: But the difference between you and your show and these reality stars and their shows is you`re honest about it, Jerry. Let me ask you about another story that`s dominating the headlines right now. Of course, everybody is glued to the Casey Anthony trial. Anthony, of course, on trial for the murder of her two-year-old daughter. It is a horrifying story, but people cannot tune it out. There are so many twists and turns and all the courtroom drama. Jerry, you`ve been hosting "The Jerry Springer Show" for some 20 years now. You certainly have seen some of the most sensational stories out there, so you get this. What do you make of the obsession over the Casey Anthony trial? Do you understand why people are so fascinated here? SPRINGER: Yes, I do. First of all, we`re social beings so we love to observe human behavior and that`s been true throughout the ages. Technology now makes it easier to watch more of the details of it. But I think another thing to think about when we watch this - the reason this story has such magnetism is because, in a sense, we`re all experts in families because we all have them. So in other words, if we did a story about the debt ceiling, you know, 99 percent of the public isn`t going to know exactly what the debt ceiling is, how we get it, what the legislation is. HAMMER: Right. SPRINGER: We tune out. But when you talk about anything having to do with a family, everyone has family. Everyone`s either been a parent or has obviously been a child. We know how much we love our children. We know about people in the family that are dysfunctional. So therefore, it`s very easy to watch. It`s very easy to talk about. It`s very easy to have an opinion about it because it is the one thing every human being is an expert on. HAMMER: Well, I really appreciate your perspective. That makes perfect sense to me. Jerry Springer, great to see you. Don`t forget, tune in weeknights to the Game Show Network to catch the third season of Jerry`s cool show. It`s a dating show called "Baggage." And I want to remind you, keep watching HLN daily for continuing coverage of the latest developments in the Casey Anthony trial. Coming up tonight, it is a not-to-be-missed headline-making SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsmaker interview with reality show star, Kate Gosselin. I`m asking Kate what she thinks of Reese Witherspoon`s reality rage. Plus, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT breaks news, will Kate ever get back together with Jon? Also, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT`s Hollywood love check. Scarlett Johansson, Sean Penn. There`s this new photo of them and has everybody asking tonight, are they back together? And stunning revelations tonight about Jen Aniston`s new guy. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN`s news and views. It is time for the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - here come more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight. TEXT: Nicole Scherzinger to replace Cheryl Cole as a judge on "The X- Factor." SHOWBIZ first look: "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Harry, no! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harry Potter, the boy who lived, come to die. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LYNDA CARTER, ACTRESS: You must now tell the truth. You are working with the Falcon and he`s working for the Nazis. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: No one can stop TV`s original "Wonder Woman" played, of course, by Lynda Carter. Those unbreakable bracelets. That magic tiara. But breaking news, "Wonder Woman" is not coming back to TV. I`ve got my own lasso of truth ready for Lynda Carder who is here tonight for a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. Can you tell I`m a little excited? Tonight, the original Wonder Woman right here. Just as SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you that NBC has just cancelled plans to launch its much-hyped new "Wonder Woman" TV series, that they had already begun shooting the show. Lynda Carter joining me from Hollywood tonight for a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. Great to see you, Lynda. You know, I grew up watching you as the Wonder Woman. As I told you last time you were here, I`m a huge fan CARTER: Hi, A.J. How are you? HAMMER: I`m great. I thought it would have been terrific to have had a new generation exposed to a new version such an iconic show. So I`ve got to ask you, are you disappointed that this new version of "Wonder Woman" is not going to happen? CARTER: I am disappointed. I had quite a few conversations or a few conversations with David E. Kelly, who is a genius. He`s such a great, great producer and writes - he really writes for the characters. And so, I thought, if anyone had a shot, it would be him. I don`t know why it didn`t go forward, but I was all for it. I want the story to be told again. You know, eventually, my daughter will have a daughter and, you know, we need a new infusion of "Wonder Women." HAMMER: Yes, no question about it. And you`re right, David E. Kelly was a brilliant choice to have taken that on. I do want to (INAUDIBLE) something else, Lynda, though. There`s also some big news breaking about something that you have expressed your outrage over before. You never got a penny for the use of your image as "Wonder Woman." You don`t even make anything from the show`s reruns. And quite frankly, that ticks me off, so I can`t imagine how that makes you feel. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT just broke the news that much of the cast of "Happy Days" has just filed a class action lawsuit claiming that they`re in the same situation. I want you to watch what they told us. CARTER: Right. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: When we started the show, we were just actors. You know, we weren`t business people. And we assumed, oh, they send you the checks and that`s it. Didn`t think about it. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you fighting for more than money? UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I think fairness and principle. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you think of all the different shows that must be having the same argument about this. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: Yes. And "Wonder Woman" was one of those shows. Have you given up fighting for the money you say you`re due? Or could you be filing your own lawsuit if at any time over this? CARTER: Well, I have never fought over it. I actually think I would be more information-gathering for myself than I would be going after anyone. I`m not a particularly a litigious person. So I think they`re just trying to get some accounting - some straightforward accounting. And I think they would be forth coming with that. They certainly wouldn`t be inclined to break the law or anything. So creative accounting aside, if you have a contract, that contract should be fulfilled. And I understand in particular people who have, you know, created characters and created something and that they haven`t been given their just due, particularly later in life as we all know you get a hit show. You don`t necessarily have several hit shows. So I think they probably need the money as well. HAMMER: Yes. And it`s something - CARTER: And I`m anxious to kind of see what happens. HAMMER: Yes. And it`s something you don`t seem bitter over. It certainly hasn`t kept you from going on in your life. CARTER: Oh, no. It doesn`t have anything to do with "Wonder Woman," really. It really has to do with how the studios run themselves. This is an old story that`s been going on a long, long time. HAMMER: Yes. CARTER: And it`s sort of - I think that a lot of lawyers and accountants are - they do business in this town. And they don`t want to be blackballed by going after it. I think it`s a courageous thing. I support them in what they`re doing. I think I would approach it from a different - I would approach it a little differently, but it`s all right. HAMMER: All right. CARTER: I get. HAMMER: I do want to move on because there`s a side of you that there are a lot of people that may not know about it. Stay right where you are. We`re going to fill them in next because I think it`s a fantastic side of you. And as we move on, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT`s Hollywood love checks coming your way. Cameron Diaz` new love revelations about her ex, Justin Timberlake. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CAMERON DIAZ, ACTRESS: Justin and I love each other. We care about each other. There`s no reason for to us be angry or have resentment. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: Scarlett Johansson and Sean Penn - a brand-new photo of them. Are they back together? Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries are reportedly working on a pre-nup. Would Kim just be crazy not to have one? I think so. Kate Gosselin here in a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. Will Kate ever get back together with Jon? This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views. Time now for the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight. TEXT: Katie Couric signs deal with ABC. She`ll launch a daytime show in 2012. "Harry Potter" star, Tom Felton, talks about "Twilight" versus "Potter." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOM FELTON, ACTOR: It`s almost like the media when they get the east coast-west coast together, "Twilight" - "Potter." And obviously, we`re all friends with Rob. And I don`t think there`s any beef tonight between the franchises. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAMMER: Is Britney Spears engaged to her boyfriend, Jason Trawick? Well, there have been a bunch of reports flying around after Brit was spotted out and about with a ring on her finger. So of course, we had to send out the SHOWBIZ truth squad to check this out. And Britney`s rep tells the truth squad, no. No engagement. And now, the surprising side of Lynda Carter that many people may not know about. Yes, everybody has loved her and her superpowers, of course, as Wonder Woman throughout the years. But did you know she also has amazing singing powers? In fact, she has just released her third album. It`s incredible. It`s called "Crazy Little Thing" and she`s getting mobbed by fans as she tours the country singing. Lynda Carter, right back from Hollywood now in the SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. And Lynda, you were singer before you even started acting. We`re looking at some terrific photos of you performing throughout the years from your Web site. You`re still going strong with the release of this brand-new album. CARTER: Right. HAMMER: But still, you know, you understand as you say the name Lynda Carter, people instantly think Wonder Woman. CARTER: Wonder Woman. Of course. HAMMER: Are there any times that you`re tired of the association? I get the impression you embrace it all the time, but I don`t know. CARTER: No, I do embrace it. I really - you know, I didn`t have a choice. It`s either that or be miserable. If you`re trying to deny it all the time, that doesn`t do me any good. But the truth is it`s about connecting and people connect with me through "Wonder Woman." And maybe they - maybe they connect again with me through my music. And that`s what I`m hoping for. I really want people to test it out and, you know, to go on iTunes. And if they like it, buy it. And if they don`t like the album, well, that`s OK, too. It`s all my fault. Everything I did on this album comes from - there`s a reason I did every single song. And I had a blast doing it and I think it`s pretty groovy. HAMMER: It is pretty groovy. I definitely think so. I thought your last album was pretty groovy, too. CARTER: Thank you. HAMMER: I`ve got to ask you this question very quickly, though. You have many passions in life. If you could only be known as a TV star or as a singer, which are you choosing? CARTER: Oh, god. No one has ever asked me that question. I`ve been asked a lot of questions, but to choose between the two? HAMMER: I need an answer. CARTER: OK. How about a singing TV star? HAMMER: Perfect, singing TV star. We`ll accept that for 20. Lynda Carter, thank you so much. Lynda`s new CD, "Crazy Little Thing" is in stores right now. Lynda, you`re also the voice of the Viking Goddess on the hot new videogame, "Skyrim." Congratulations on that as well. CARTER: "Skyrim." Yes, thank you so much. Thank you. HAMMER: All right. Great seeing you. Moving on now to the SHOWBIZ lineup - here`s what`s coming up at the bottom of the hour on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Kate Gosselin right here on a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. What does she really think about Reese Witherspoon`s reality show rant? And will she and Jon ever get back together? SHOWBIZ breaks news tonight - Lady Gaga heading to Broadway? And SHOWBIZ TONIGHT`s Hollywood love check. New revelations tonight about Jennifer Aniston`s new guy. Cammie D. and Justin Timberlake working together years after their breakup. Cam says their love helped them on set. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views. Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight. TEXT: "X-Men: First Class" wins weekend box office race, makes $56.4 million in U.S. Country star Trace Adkins loses home to a fire. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAMMER: Big news breaking tonight on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Kate comes clean. Her reality TV regrets. A reunion with Jon? Kate Gosselin right here in a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT`s Hollywood love check. Scarlett Johansson and Sean Penn back on, spotted hand-in-hand just days after we all thought they split. Jennifer Aniston`s new man. Who is he and is this the real deal? New revelations tonight. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DIAZ: Justin and I love each other. We care about each other. There`s no reason for us to be angry or have resentment. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: Cameron Diaz` Justin Timberlake secrets. Cammie D. gets personal with SHOWBIZ TONIGHT about working with her ex. ANNOUNCER: TV`s most provocative entertainment news show continues right now. (MUSIC) HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer coming to you from New York City. We`ve got big news breaking today - Kate`s reality check. Well, Kate Gosselin just premiered the new season of "Kate Plus 8" on TLC tonight. And nearly two years after her big divorce from Jon Gosselin, the mother of eight is trying something new - dating. But the big question tonight, is her ex-husband, Jon, completely out of the picture? And how have things changed for Kate. Kate Gosselin with me tonight for a SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsmaker interview. Good to you have here. Congratulations on the new season. KATE GOSSELIN, REALITY TV STAR, "KATE PLUS 8": Thank you. HAMMER: Made its premiere tonight on TLC and we got to see you go on a big ladies weekend to New York City. You were hitting some night clubs. So you`ve got to tell me, are you out there actually dating? Is there someone in your life right now? GOSSELIN: No. The same. Same as it`s been. Same as it`s been. Yes. HAMMER: OK. But are you open to love? Are you open to the idea of finding that? I mean, obviously, you know, it`s been a rough transition, as - you know, anybody who goes through any kind of a split up, it takes time to heal. So are you in that healed place where you`re kind of opened up to it now? GOSSELIN: Yes. I mean, definitely, the kids are open to it. I`m open to it. I`m going to be very picky and choosy. So we`ll see. HAMMER: You should for you and the kids` sake, obviously. And I`ve heard before where you said the kids have asked you when you`re going to get married again. GOSSELIN: Yes. HAMMER: So what`s the deal? You know, a lot of people after the first one doesn`t work out, they say, "You know what? Maybe I`ll find love but maybe stay away from marriage." What are your thoughts on that? Do you see marriage in your future or at least as a possibility? GOSSELIN: I`ve learned to never say never, but I don`t really focus on it right now. It kind of sounds scary. So, I mean, I`m not even dating, so let`s just start there. HAMMER: OK. Good enough. And I`m sure people ask you all the time - look, I`m sure you have a lot of, you know, fans from the original "Jon and Kate Plus 8," and people who have followed your life and your work and the kids who want to know if there`s a possibility that you and Jon will ever get back together. Is that something you even see as possible, or not so much? HAMMER: Even hearing you saying it in the promos freaked me out. So the answer is zero percent, you know, zero percent, zero percent. HAMMER: Zero point zero? GOSSELIN: Not happening ever. HAMMER: OK. Among all of the things, look, we saw it all play out both partially on the TV show and in all the media coverage. I mean, what among all of that makes it so difficult or freaks you out that I even said it? And I didn`t mean to freak you out. GOSSELIN: The fact that we`re two completely different people with two completely different values. And I don`t support his goals or his choices. So it`s easy for me. I mean, getting divorced was probably one of the best things I`ve ever done. HAMMER: And do you get the impression from any level of contact that you have with Jon that he feels the same way or if the opportunity ever - you know, is he sort of in the same place, you guys have just gone on your own road at this point? GOSSELIN: I don`t worry about it. I mean, I know that it was the best choice for me and that`s where I stop. HAMMER: OK. That`s fair enough. You obviously had great - and continue to have great success in the reality TV world. It certainly was bumpy at times and we`re along for the ride. But look, that`s also part of reality TV. I`ve got to tell you, Reese Witherspoon is making some big news tonight after she attacked some reality stars. You`ve got watch what he said last night at the MTV Movie Awards. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) - (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) When I came up in this business, you made a sex tape, you were embarrassed and you hid it under your bed. And like if you took naked pictures of yourself on your cell phone, you hide your face, people. Hide your face. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: OK. Look, sex tapes and naked photos - obviously something you never dealt with and she wasn`t speaking of the kind of reality show or reality star that you have been or the show that you`ve done. But you do know the reality world. What do you make of her comments about the fact that, you know, there are so many young people who think that, you know, just by being bad or by putting out these sex tapes and getting reality show, they can have big success. Different route than you took but, you know, that`s - GOSSELIN: I don`t feel like it affects me because this is what I do to support my kids and give them opportunities in life, so I don`t take offense to that. I don`t feel like it applies to me. HAMMER: OK. Do you see her point, though, as far as - you know, look, as your kids are growing up and they`re going to be looking to role models and now you have - there are certainly some reality star role models out there who, a lot of people would say, not exactly the people you want to emulate, you know, in terms of the kind of life you would pursue, being a star just for the sake of being a star, which, again, not what you did. GOSSELIN: I mean, there`s good TV and there`s bad TV. I don`t look at it as reality versus not. I just am a mom trying to teach my kids the right things. And so I don`t - you know, I don`t feel like it`s different - scripted versus reality. HAMMER: One thing that you have had to endure being a part of reality TV is having your breakup with Jon play out in public both on the show and, as we`ve talked about, in the tabloids and other media coverage. Right now, we are watching something like that play out, not in the reality world. But Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver are going through a really tough time. And everybody`s thinking of Maria right now and the level of scrutiny that she has to endure. Having been through that, you know, being right there in the spotlight while it`s going on, what would you suggest to Maria so that she can come out and come through it at the other end? And you know, it seems like - here you are. You`re moving forward. What can she do, you know, from what you`ve experienced, do you think? GOSSELIN: I have met Maria and I have always admired her. She`s a very strong woman who is a mom first, who looks out for her kids. And so, to her, I would say, just keep - I`m sorry and just keep doing what you`re doing. And I think that she will do really well because she is strong and, you know, full of grace. And I just can`t say enough about her. I think she`s awesome. HAMMER: Strong, strong woman. GOSSELIN: Yes. HAMMER: And I have to tell you, as soon as we posted on our Facebook page today that you were coming in, comments, questions - everybody wants to ask you something. Let me get to one in particular right now. This is Sue M.W.(ph) - I`m sorry. We`re going to read Jennifer P. here, "Why does she think it`s better to have her children known so well and keep them in the media instead of having them having a normal life?" Now, this is something that you`ve had time to deal with and answer for a long time. And now, you`ve had time to reflect on it. What do you say to that now that you`ve been at it for so many years? GOSSELIN: Well, again, it comes back to the opportunities and quality of life that my kids get to enjoy. With a family of eight kids - I mean, we`ve traveled the world and seen and done so many things. And I wouldn`t change it and neither do they. It just comes down to our choices. And everybody parents differently. Well, fair enough. And on Twitter, Ms. Catie asks, "How will Kate help the kids adjust after `Kate Plus 8` is gone? No crew. No traveling." So Kate, would you hang out with us so we can get your answer on that. And much more coming up in our SHOWBIZ final word in just a moment. But right now, we have to move on to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT`s Hollywood love check. Scar Jo and Sean Penn - I`m getting whip-lashed with these two. First, it was their unlikely hookup, which I kind of like. But then, they broke up. Why does this new photo prove that they`re back on? And Jen Aniston`s Hollywood love check. Explosive revelations tonight about Jen`s new guy. Kim Kardashian`s big, fat pre-nup? Well, she`s reportedly working on one. The SHOWBIZ great debate, would Kim be crazy not to have one? And pop icon, Deborah Gibson, right here in a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview with love advice for Kim K., Jen Aniston and Scar Jo. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views. And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight. TEXT: Season four of "Jersey Shore" premieres August 4th. SHOWBIZ first look: "Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn Part 1." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROBERT PATTINSON, ACTOR: No measure of time with you would be long enough, but we`ll start with now. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. Tonight, Hollywood`s love check. Jennifer Aniston may have a new love in her life. And she`s not the only star whose love life is making big headlines today. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is fact-checking the buzz on the stars that are heating up things, hooking up and breaking up these days. With me to sort through all the celebrity romances, a lady who knows what it`s like to date in the public eye and she has lived to sing about it. Singing star, Debbie Gibson, who is kicking off a summer concert tour with fellow songstress and `80s icon, Tiffany. We love that you`re doing that. First of all, we have to talk about a new couple alert. It`s Jennifer Aniston. And she`s been dating this guy screenwriter, Justin Thoreau. These two have only been dating for a few weeks. According to "People" magazine, though, Justin`s already been introduced to Jen`s close pals, Chelsea Handler and, of course, her best friend, Courteney Cox. Deb, we would all like to see Jen have love and be happily ever after. I`ve always been rooting for her. Do you think this could be the one? Or is it just too soon to tell? DEBBIE GIBSON, SINGER: You know, I think it`s too soon to tell. And it`s so funny that we put so much emphasis on it being the one. So many women these days like Jen - I feel like she`s come out publicly to say, you know, maybe you`re with someone forever and maybe you`re not. Maybe it`s just a chapter in your life. So I will say, what, there`s more to life than work. So it would be great to know that she`s got someone to go hang out with. HAMMER: Yes. And I think it`s a pretty big deal and very telling that she actually is allowing herself to be seen publicly with this guy, because, you know, her love life is probably scrutinized more than any star on the planet, right? Want to move on to Scarlett Johansson and Sean Penn. Now, last week, there were reports that the two had parted ways. But we just got this photo today of them. And quite frankly, they`re looking pretty cozy and very much a couple in this thing over the weekend. This was taken at the Guy`s Choice Awards in Los Angeles. Scarlett is 26; Sean is 50. What do you think? Are these two an odd pairing or perfect match? GIBSON: You know, I think she`s an old soul. As an artist, she`s incredibly evolved. I think it kind of makes sense. And you know what? I just think people judge too much and if people are happy, so be it. I mean - HAMMER: Right. We looking from afar to see what we see in the public. And we see this young beautiful woman and this sort of, at times, curmudgeonly older dude. But they`re both brilliantly talented and obviously very smart people. GIBSON: Then there`s talent turn on. I mean, you know, talent is sexy. HAMMER: You know about that, right? Admit it. You`re drawn to talented people. GIBSON: Absolutely. (CROSS TALK) I mean, I have a hot man who very, very talented in - I would not say in many, many ways. I didn`t mean it like that. HAMMER: OK. Debbie Gibson, everybody. GIBSON: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. HAMMER: We won`t kick you out for that. There`s a one-time Hollywood golden couple that`s reuniting on screen - Justin Timberlake and Cameron Diaz. They`re starting in the upcoming film, "Bad Teacher". Now, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT just sat down with Cameron over the weekend. And we asked her for her secret on successfully working with an ex. Watch what she said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DIAZ: The secret life since. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAMMER: Yes. That`s impressively mature, if you ask me. GIBSON: It is. HAMMER: Very evolved, Cameron Diaz. GIBSON: It makes sense to me because, you know, if they were on set and they had a flirtation and they`d not yet dated, that would be more dangerous to me than - look, they`ve played it out. They`ve realized they`re not meant to be together. Like she said, they`ve come full circle. They support each other. And probably, they know so much about each other that they had a ball and the chemistry comes through. I can`t wait to see that movie. HAMMER: Well, yes. And certainly, the chemistry is going to be there in a way. That wouldn`t be the case if they`d never been together. But Justin Timberlake is back on the market since he and Jessica Biel broke up. Now, Cameron Diaz apparently still dating Yankee Alex Rodriguez. Would you like to see Justin back together with Cammie? I don`t want to break anybody up. But you know, a lot of people always kind of like that. They were together for so long. GIBSON: I liked it although I see Justin, even though he seems kind of like, you know - I don`t want to say a serial dater, because he`s been in relationships. But I see him more as like the "get married, settle down" type. Cameron Diaz has come out and made no bones about the fact that she doesn`t care about marriage. She`s like, "You know what? I`m happy as it is now. Blah, blah, blah. So I don`t know. I`m OK with them being apart, actually. HAMMER: Why are so many people obsessed with them getting back together, even though it probably will never happen? GIBSON: I don`t know. HAMMER: What is the answer to that, Debbie? GIBSON: I don`t know. Please invite me back even though I don`t have that answer. HAMMER: I`m so confused. GIBSON: I know. Try being me. HAMMER: Well, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT will bring you the rest of our revealing with Cameron Diaz along with Justin`s very funny take on working with Cammie. That`s on tomorrow`s show. But I`ve got to get to one more Hollywood love check tonight, the newly- engaged couple Kim Kardashian and NBA star, Kris Humphries, still basking in the glow of that 20-carat diamond ring. She`s rocking that ring. But you know, they soon may hit their first speed bump in the relationship. They`re trying to work out a prenuptial agreement, reportedly. Kim worth upwards of $35 million. Kris is worth reportedly a $8 million a year. Obviously, neither hurting for cash. Kim has been married before. I think this makes sense, but do you think it could signal that maybe she`s not so confident in this love? GIBSON: See, this is why I don`t care so much about getting married. It like it`s a business arrangement these days, which is sad to me. And you know, I do think they probably should do the pre-nup thing because their relationship is so much about being in the public eye. HAMMER: Yes. GIBSON: And I don`t know how, you know - it`s hard to trust it. HAMMER: I don`t know. There`s a ton of money at stake there. GIBSON: Yes. HAMMER: Debbie Gibson, great to see you. GIBSON: Great to see you, too. HAMMER: And make sure check out the concert tour with Tiffany. They`re kicking it off at the end of July. Moving on now, SHOWBIZ breaks news tonight. Is Gaga heading to Broadway? Come on. GIBSON: I hope so! HAMMER: You know you love "Jersey Shore." And the "Shore" is back, baby. Let`s get this party started. Fist pumps all around. That news tops "The Buzz Today." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) (voice-over) "Jersey Shore" heads home. MTV has just announced that Snooki, The Situation, Pauly D., J-Woww and the rest of the cast of "Jersey Shore" are coming back home and getting their party on in Jersey for a brand-new fifth season of "Jersey Shore." SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has confirmed season five begins production in Seaside Heights, New Jersey this month. The cast has just wrapped shooting season four of the reality show in Florence, Italy, which can be seen starting August 4th on MTV. SHOWBIZ breaks news. Is Gaga going Broadway? Lady Gaga has just gotten a major shutout from an acting legend. Eighty-five-year-old Angela Lansbury has just revealed to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT she`s. ANGELA LANSBURY, ACTRESS: She could sure wear the clothes, that`s for sure. It would be a generational type Mame. I can`t imagine. (INAUDIBLE), but you know, everything`s possible. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAMMER: Well, Kate Gosselin is back and she`s getting the final word on SHOWBIZ tonight. Kate responding to her biggest fans from Facebook and Twitter. What are her biggest regrets? No question too intimate, too of- the-wall. You ask, Kate answers, next. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views. And now, it`s the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight. TEXT: Lady Gaga`s "Born This Way" banned in Lebanon for being offensive to Christianity. SHOWBIZ first look: "Super 8" opening June 10th. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE CHILD: Don`t go back. Don`t leave me! Run! (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAMMER: We`re back with Kate Gosselin. The new season, "Kate Plus 8," debuted tonight on TLC. Kate, it is amazing how many questions that we got to you once we posted that you were going to be here. So let me get to some from Twitter. This is SHOWBIZ fan, Ms. Catie who hit us with this, "How will Kate help the kids adjust after `Kate Plus 8` is gone? No crew. No traveling, et cetera." And that`s a legitimate question. Obviously, having all that around has been a significant part of their lives. Have you had conversations about that inevitability with them? GOSSELIN: No, because I know that our crew will always be a part of our lives with or without their cameras. I know that for sure. So it will just be a matter of getting together. They`re extended family. And as far as the traveling, it will definitely be decreased, but it`s not that we won`t travel at all. And throughout it all, they`ve been so adaptable with how, you know, randomly we`ve been filming throughout the years. HAMMER: The cameras aren`t there all the time. And I think, for a long time, there was that perception and you did, you know, when everything was going on, talk quite a bit about how, you know, don`t be mistaken. The cameras aren`t always there. So they do have a balanced - GOSSELIN: Yes. I mean, we can go weeks without filming. And then, we film, you know, two days in a row. And then, you know, it goes four days and then we film another day. It`s always been random. So there`s not going to be an adjustment, really. HAMMER: Are they pretty psyched there when the camera guys show up? GOSSELIN: Yes. HAMMER: Probably because they`re like family as you said. GOSSELIN: Yes. Oh, yes. They don`t see the equipment. They see the people behind the equipment. And so, they`re so adaptable. I don`t even feel like that`s an issue. HAMMER: Let me get to this one. This Is Carey B. and this came from our Facebook wall today, "Have you ever regretted doing a reality show knowing your children are going to be able to see everything that happened in their family documented for the world to see?" Now, we`ve talked before already tonight about - you don`t have - it doesn`t seem you have any regrets about what you`ve done. But there is that aspect that, yes, all of this stuff that you`ve lived through, that they`ve lived through, is going to be out there one day. GOSSELIN: It`s out there now. And my kids are aware of that, and it`s their favorite thing to watch at night when I let them pop a movie in their room. It`s always "Kate Plus 8" or "Jon and Kate Plus 8." So these are home videos that they`ve collected. And I feel like we`re at an advantage because they can go back and relive a lot of their memories. HAMMER: But even the difficult coverage? I guess that`s more, I think, what the viewer is driving at, because that stuff that maybe they did not see as much or they were more aware of - GOSSELIN: We don`t make episodes that they can`t watch, so it`s sensitive coverage as far as - they are my gauge. So anything that we film and air they are happy to watch. HAMMER: I`m not going to ask you this full question from the viewer, but they did want to know if you`re going to be running a marathon any time soon because you`ve been running. GOSSELIN: You know, I was supposed to run a half marathon yesterday actually in San Diego. So I want to do an upcoming one soon, this year. HAMMER: Well, good luck with that. You look terrific. GOSSELIN: Thank you. HAMMER: Obviously, you`re working hard and I appreciate you being here tonight. GOSSELIN: Thanks. HAMMER: And you can see more on "Kate Plus 8," of course, Monday nights on TLC. Kate Gosselin, thank you so much. Well,

- Restaurants | - Nightlife | - Shopping | - Movies | - All Brunswick Matador Bowl Category: Active Life Bowling Bowling [Edit]9118 Balboa Blvd Northridge, CA 91325 Neighborhood: North Hills (818) 892-8677 - Good for Kids: - Yes 38 reviews for Brunswick Matador Bowl 38 reviews in English Review from Dyeanna V. - 448 friends - 128 reviews North Hollywood, CA This is like mine and my boyfriend's place to chuck some balls. We like going during the week because it's SUPER dirt cheap and we get to play a good amount of games. We usually get 4 and 4, that usually comes up to be like $15.00 if I'm not mistaken. DO NOT GO ON A WEEKEND, IT IS NOT WORTH IT! We went on a weekend and we paid like $60.00. You serious? That's like a fucking pair of shoes. I'm straiiiight on that shit. The balls are not in their best shape either. They do hurt the shit out of you. My extreme ass boyfriend uses the heaviest ones so his poor little finger began to grow a baby callus. So now he wears a band-aid on his index finger as to not make it worse. But then again, he tosses them and makes the entire building rattle. Peep this, there's a chick that works at the 'bar' who has the bitchiest attitude. There are 2, I'm talking about the FAT one. She acts like her shit don't stink. She knows my boyfriend is of age and still tries to act brand new and asks to card him each time. Like, 'Bitch, we did the same shit the week before...and before that..and many more before that!' Anyway, bottom line, it's a good cheap bowling alley in the valley! Review from Justin Jaelynn D. North Hills, CA I used to be in a kids league and I'm pretty sure the chick that ran it in '95 was racist because she would make me take off my baseball cap, yet the white kids got to have theirs on (backwards nonetheless). I was one in 3 females in the whole league and I wasn't invited to play in this one tournament even though I had the highest average and best handicap. The other two females did. And yes, they were white. Uh, coincidence? The place was TOTALLY GHETTO before the earthquake and now that it's been remodeled I don't think it's that bad. I'd rather come here than get financially raped at Pinz. Honestly, I prefer the Vanowen Bowling Alley. I mean, what? It's bowling. I wish I could do it more because it's fun to bullshit and throw up heavy shit, but then again that's why I Crossfit and do cooler things. Review from Jackie K. I ONLY COME HERE BECAUSE MY FRIENDS GO. I would not go out of my way to come here to bowl. In my honest opinion, it is really ghetto here. Came here on a Thursday night and the bowling was cheap. Per game it was only $1.25 and shoes were $3. The people who are working there are nice. Try and park in the parking lot behind the bowling alley. There is limited parking especially at busy hours. DO NOT park on the street. It can be a bit dangerous. My friend's car got broken into. If anything, try and park somewhere where there is a lot of light if you really have to park on the street. Balboa and Nordhoff have very dark parts on their streets. DO NOT PARK WHERE IT IS DARK. Review from Max C. I'm never one to speak in proper etiquette so let me start off by saying this place sucks! What makes it suck is simple, customer service, it has none. The employee who goes by the name Rayneesha was so rude, all I asked for was the price for an individual game and I guess that was too much. Her tone of voice, body language, and attitude were the worst I've seen in quite some time. I understand it's not an ideal job but it's no excuse to treat people so poorly. Review from Chandler M. Los Angeles, CA Have I ever bowled here? I don't actually think so. However I have been here a lot to just hang out in the back restaurant and the little arcade that is there, and for being in the Valley, I guess options are limited. As a bowling alley goes this one is really showing its age. Even the Cosmic Bowl special isn't as cool as say, Gable House or Round 1. This ain't even in the realm of Lucky Strike or Pinz...it's a straight up old-school bowling alley. I can appreciate that and understand these types of establishments should stay as long as leagues exist and people like to bowl. So it's completely average head-to-toe. Review from Aven Nd Pat A. - 2 friends - 13 reviews Tujunga, CA My boyfriend and i love going here . It's really cheap on mondays and the longest we've waited here was an hour . what makes this place even funner is that they have a bar ! i highly recommend !! Review from Samantha N. - 234 friends - 248 reviews San Diego, CA Went for a round of late night bowling on Wednesday only to be pleasantly surprised about the lane and shoe deal! TWO BUCKS FOR A GAME?! COUNT ME IN! But it was a bit ghetto. Review from Karen D. Threw my sons 9th bday party there. Great service. Great fun. Great environment. Pretty great deal for a child's birthday. Definitely would recommend a party there. Review from Sandy T. Best place to chill and spend time with friends and family in Northridge. It's not that expensive to hit some pins with some balls! Music is great and the people are great. Review from Jeremaine D. - 24 friends - 12 reviews Woodland Hills, CA I like bowling....I REALLY LIKE BOWLING, and I'm damn good at it. So no matter where I go I will have fun. So it's been some years since I had the chance to toss the old ball around when a good friend called me to come cover as a Sub in his league here on Tuesday nights. Excited, I loaded up the family and headed off. Once I got there thats when the hell began.......first off parking here should be against the law. The Parking lot is no bigger than a playground, and the parking spots are so close together you'r sure to ding up somebodies car getting in or getting out. Oh and don't bother parking in front of the Liquor store which is right next to it or you'll loose your ride. If your able to find parking good luck with the lanes as well. I threw my first ball down the lane and when it came back there was some much oil on it I could fry chicken with it. I mean it was litterally dripping off my bowling ball. Not a fan of this place. Review from Crystal L. - 130 friends - 130 reviews Granada Hills, CA Beer & Bowling. Bowling & Beer. Bowl Beer. Beer BOWL?! Brunswick, you should invest in beer bowls! Maybe a bowling ball bowl filled with beer. Hey, say bowling ball beer bowl five times really fast. HAHAHAHAHAHA... (I'm so funny!) Anyways, beer & bowling. I never know the prices, or when the specials are. Some nights it's really cheap, some nights it's not. Their website says the price ranges from $4-6 a game but the last time I went it was only $2.25 a game. I love a good cheap time! I love bowling and I'm not even good at it! :] Review from Jensen L. Saturday night, no plans. What do you do with six people who are too lazy to head out of the valley? Drunken bowling. Perfect game for a group of people who aren't even really good at bowling. It happened to be Cosmic Bowling night when we arrived at the Matador Bowl. I am one who is easily excited by simple things such as bright and colorful lights so coming here during Cosmic Bowling was a plus for me. The alley was crowded which wasn't a surprise because it was a weekend night in the valley. The wait was about an hour and my group passed the time by heading out to nearby Bounce Boba Loft to get some boba and chill until we were called. After 11:30pm on Saturday nights, there is an $10.99 per person unlimited bowling until the bowling alley closes at 2pm. Shoes are included in the deal. There was enough time for my group of six to fit in nearly three games. Service and maintenance was quick. Our lane had a glitch and the pins weren't placed back. The problem was addressed and fixed within five minutes. Also, one of my friends got a little too excited when she got a strike and knocked beer all over our table and a chair. The mess was cleaned up in no time by the workers. Downsides, no pitchers of beer on Cosmic Bowling night and not all of the beer listed in the menu isn't readily available. There was only one bartender that night and he was little slow with getting drinks for everyone even though there weren't many people waiting in line. My friends and I ended up having a good time here. By the end of the night, we had all become better bowlers. I can honestly say that alcohol has the magical effect of improving bowling skills. The Matador Bowl makes for a great place to get your beer and bowling on. Review from christine p. Los Angeles, CA bar. BAR?! yea, that's not a bar. but then again, it's a family friendly place, right? right. the seats. man, they are cramped together and not enough. i wouldn't eat there. BUT i did get free coffee from the person working there :) that was nice. haha they need some serious renovation. we were bowling, and had to wait for the ball to come back.. and after a while.. we started getting worried cuz my friend has his own and it wouldn't come back. and then ALL the sudden... 8 balls come ROLLLING up at once. just cuz it's busy, doesn't mean it should be taking over a minute to get your bowling ball back. that's just.. not good maintenance, man. Review from Nancy M. So...I took some awesome kids I know here on Sat., Nov. 13 as a reward for all their hard work of studying & placing 3rd place out of 16 teams. (Starting to tear up. Must hold back! LOL) I was so proud of them. Anyways we got here at 3pm and there we're plenty of lanes available. We got the family deal ($60 for up to 6 people - 2 hrs of bowling, shoes, and a free pitcher of soda) and didn't have to pay extra for cosmic bowl which normally starts at 5pm. We got away with 2 1/2 games for each of us. Its well worth the price and the kids had fun, which is the most important thing. I haven't had the food here but its well worth it if you are a family trying to do something budget friendly. The pizza deals were under $20 dollars. I've also come at night to bowl and they have plenty of deals on weekdays, including their afternoon specials. I need to try the afternoon deals. If anyone is in need of a budget friendly afternoon/evening...call me! Let's go bowling! ;) Review from Lauren F. For the longest time i was convinced that this was where the Big Lebowski was filmed. Not so much inside, but i was sooo sure that the parking lot scene was the same. I mean, I drove by this lot every day on the way to school, and came here at least a few times a month. I apparently was wrong. That fact however does not dissuade me from giving Matador Bowl its first review, and making it a 4 star one. Leagues. good. I remember it like it was yesterday, playing the only team sport i ever played as a kid. (until i joined the swim team, and just sucked at that too) We came in third that year, losing in the very last game of the season. How were we so gifted as to come in third? We weren't. We had a handicap sooo high, that it ranked us up there with the best team too. We were doomed from the start, but at least we got a trophy! Cosmic bowling with bumpers listening to your favorite Fergie song. corny, but good. Fergie was definitely not popular when i was coming here, but i imagine that they love it now. Even as an adult i find bumper bowling to be completely entertaining, and who doesn't like bowling in the black light where all of your friends teeth glow something fierce. I choose not to smile, seeing as though a few of my teeth don't glow, but I'm always smiling on the inside. Listed in: Growing up Valley... Review from Amanda S. I used to work here. haha eww. I was a party hostess, so i did the little kids (or adult) birthday parties. I also used to be in a league here, a lonngg time ago. God i was such a loser. Anyway, this place used to be pretty ghetto looking, and it deffffffinitely looks alot better now after they re-did it. My brother and family still comes here every saturday for league, but i don't. I've spent more than enough time in that place, i do anything possible to not go. Although they filmed My Name is Earl here a couple times and i got to have a beer with the cast. that was fun. I probably should give it 3 stars, but there's nothing better than late night drunk cosmic bowling, i must say. full bar, and cheap, good drinks/pitchers. I'm a surprisingly good drunk bowler. Better than when i'm sober, actually haha, weird. Review from Cece H. Great Bowling Alley! I think they play better music at there cosmic bowling then any club ! Great price for bowling a lil pricy for drinking. 4 stars because you can't buy a pitcher of beer. Review from Abraham P. - 12 friends - 48 reviews Northridge, CA I haven't gone bowling here in a long time, but finally decided to give it a try when I was told that after 11, a game only cost 50 cents. I figured why not? I'm a sucker for cheapness. When I got here, I was surprised. They redid the place and it looks nice and they modernized everything. It was a very pleasant way to spend the evening. One of the downsides though is that the machine had some glitches. It took forever for our balls to return sometimes, and at one point it stopped coming out altogether. This was quickly solved when we went to talk with the workers. About halfway through our third game, we were asked to switch over to the lane next to us because there were some problems with the one that we were using and they needed to go and fix it. Review from Brenda D. This place reminds me of college, therefore it will always have some sentimental value attached to it. However, it hasn't changed much in the past few years and the "bar" serves pretty bad drinks. Can't go wrong with the bowling though. If you're just looking for a fun game of bowling, this is a good place. Especially in the Summertime because Brunswick hosts special deals every day in the Summer. Check out their website for the latest deals. Review from Marc J. If you are going to just drink beer, do cosmic bowl, and that sort of thing then this place is fine. If you are a league bowler, not so much. The oil patterns are always bizzar and inconsistant, the foul lights have not worked in the 6 months that I've been bowling there, and when they remodled the place they put the tables so close to the lanes that it is awkward just getting to the line to take your shot half ot the time. Thank goodness they replaced the bartender who literally took 5 minutes to get you a beer and then another 5 to swipe the card with someone with a brain. Most of the staff looks like they just woke up from a 2 year slumber. Heck, when I complained about the foul lights being out to one staff member I had to explain to him what foul lights were. I'll look elsewhere for my next league, but hey, I'd show up at Matador to bowl on a lazy rainy day. Review from Sean G. I like this place the employed are chill even the bosses I don't bowl but I go there to play in there arcade. Review from Nicole Rachel M. I went to this bowling alley this past Thursday for Matador bowl. I went because the Deaf Studies Association was having an event there to welcome the new semester. I had a blast. Alot of people went and it was fun signing in a relaxed out of class environment. If you know ASL and ever get a chance to go trust me you will have a good time. You can find the DSA on face-book and check out their other dates and activities if this interests you. My other experience at this place has been pretty good. Their are about 20 or so lanes and plenty of balls and shoes. Its cheap to play here Ive heard 50 cents a game at certain times and on Tuesdays if have your bowling receipt a pitcher is cheaper. I have had some food and drinks and its decent enough I don't remember what I ate but I didn't hate it because I always remember that. Anyway I recommend this place granted I don't go to alot of bowling alleys but its enjoyable enough. :) Review from Pamela M. Came here to celebrate a friend's bday (the only way you can get me in the valley), and had a great time, the pitchers of beer were cheap, bowling was cheap & the staff was awesome. I can't say I'll be back cause it's in the valley but I can say I had a damn good time here. Listed in: Social Directions Review from Gregg F. The Matador bowl is way too busy and not nearly well maintained enough to enjoy properly. I went here one night for $1 bowling with a bunch of college friends and the My Name is Earl crew was filming an episode here. We didn't get to bowl for a couple hours, but it was fun to see the show filming, not to mention a couple of the crew members took a liking to us and put us on the free bowling list and bought us a few pitchers of beer. So That's where the extra star comes from, but every other time I've ever been here, it's just not easy enough to get a lane and enjoy your evening of bowling. Review from Johnny B. It's an okay bowling alley. Cosmo bowling is pretty cool. Their drinks at the bar are a bit on the pricey side. The size of the place is decent. I've seen better and bigger. Review from John G. Went to bowl here for the first time back in Nov. They've got awsome deals however its only on week night when the prices are low. The best one thats a must to do is NIFTY FIFTY 50 CENTS a game. Review from Tricia M. i hadn't been bowling for over two years...and now i know why. the cinco caballeros decided to round up the family & head on out to matador. we arrive there on saturday and automatically know it's going to be packed...it's raining, movies being released suck...what else are people gonna do? we settle in and FINALLY get a lane. and i'm off to buy a pitcher. the lady taking my order looked and acted like she was straight outta the 'don't be a menace..." movie. she couldn't be bothered to do her job, and probably didn't want to mess up her nols and her hair did. my SIL decided to order some nachos...and couldn't figure out why the hell it took so long....to pour melted cheese on stale chips? the mind boggles at the complexity. back on the lane: all the kids had a blast, the more we drank...the more we had a blast. and the crappy music that they played over the speakers didn't suck...the more we drank. all in all, the hefeweizen was decent at best, the bowling was fun, the kids were thoroughly entertained. really...this place is a solid 2.5 stars, but the way it tired out the kids...a solid 3! Review from Liz M. Used to play in the league here on Wednesday nights years ago, just recently my friends and I started going again for College night Thursdays. Warning it definitely gets packed because the pricing is definitely a bargain. So if you plan to come for college night come early and sign up asap, they do have a bar w/ pool tables so that can help kill time. I think they also have earlly bowling specials for Sunday mornings. Review from Leslie K. Nicest, cleanest and most kid friendly bowling alley I have seen!!! Review from Heather H. - 156 friends - 178 reviews West Hills, Los Angeles, CA Last night was the first time I visited Matador. We came here with my son's school for family night. We had tons of people there and took about 8 lanes. Overall, the place was nice. I was extremely disappointed with the snack bar. I ordered a large pepperoni pizza for my family and it took at least 45 minutes to get the damn thing. Needless to say we were starving and the pizza wasn't good anyway. We all had a great time though and we will probably go back by ourselves when it's not so busy. Review from Jenn T. The only time I am ever this far north from the west side is for someone else...this was one of those times. We were out celebrating a birthday and it was definitely fun, cheap drinks, apparently they have bowling here too :) we didn't stay long enough to get a good feel for the place and I doubt that I will ever be back, but a good time none the less. Good dive for hanging out (if you are into that sort of thing). Review from Nikki I. Been here a couple of times since I discovered it a few weeks ago. As a dance game fanatic, I'll probably never actually go bowling here. The arcade has a pretty nice In the Groove dedicab. It's hacked and in nice shape, though the left pad tends to stick. The arcade also gets really hot so they should stick a fan in there. The alley is open until 2 am every night (except Sundays and Mondays - learned the hard way). The parking lot is pretty shitty but I appreciate that there's a security guard out there all night. Listed in: Dance Games Review from Armando A. - 32 friends - 53 reviews Sylmar, CA I come to this bowling alley 'cause of the weeknight deals. Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays are super cheap. They also have cheap hot dogs and sodas. The pitchers of beer range in price so you should ask which is cheaper, they change it all the time. I have trouble understanding the liquor prices; one drink costs more than a pitcher of beer. So I'm not much of a bowler as u can probably tell by now. I have no idea how the ball should be or shoes or lanes but of course you can bring your own if you're hardcore like that. There's usually a pretty decent selection of balls. Only problem is when it's a college night, CSUN is down the street and sometimes the line gets ridiculously long so it's a good idea to call ahead of time and ask how long the wait is, though they won't reserve your spot until you come in person. As for the rest of the bowling alley, the pool table is expensive and the arcade is small so I don't normally do those activities. Anyway I always have a great time when I'm there and the music selection can be cool sometimes. Review from Madeleine F. - 107 friends - 100 reviews Porter Ranch, CA what?!!?!?!? $2 bowling on tuesdays!!!! need i say more? Review from Martin D. Bowling is bowling, the staff is what makes the experience worth while. Cosmic Bowling is the way to go but you have to get there early enough to a spot for a Friday or Saturday night. The Bartenders have a great personality but I do miss my buddy Dessaray. Review from Cindy R. horrible service people here are rude!!!!

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The World Trading Organization and Law Enforcement Steve Charnovitz* Paper Prepared for the Round Table on Old Rules, New Threats Co-sponsored by the American Society of International Law & the Council on Foreign Relations The increased threats from transborder criminal activity is leading to stronger governmental and intergovernmental responses in the military, judicial, and regulatory arenas. These efforts, particularly the non-military ones, raise a new issue in international economic lawthat is, the intersection between trade and law enforcement. By new, I do not mean that no previous discussion of this phenomenon exists. Indeed, many of the points discussed herein have been written about.(1) Rather, the perception is relatively new that there is a bundle of important issues in how the trading system interacts with efforts to combat illegal activity. The purpose of this paper is to introduce the subject as a whole, particularly with respect to the World Trade Organization (WTO). Trade and law enforcement is a trade-linkage amenable to the modes of analysis used for other linkage issues, such as trade and environment, trade and labor, and trade and human rights.(2) For any WTO linkage issue, three main issues arise: First, how much commerce is being impeded intentionally or unintentionally by a norm extrinsic to the WTO system?(3) Second, do WTO rules interfere with national efforts to combat a social harm? Third, can the WTO be enlisted to help intergovernmental efforts promote a non-trade value? These policy tensions and synergies are equally relevant for the issue of trade and law enforcement, and will be examined in this paper. This paper does not attempt to answer the first question by sizing up how much trade is affected. In recent months, however, the author has noted an increase in articles about the impact of new law enforcement programs on trade flows.(4) Connections between trade and efforts to combat criminal activity (such as smuggling) probably originated in antiquity, and the linkage appears in United States treaties going back over two centuries. For example in 1778, the Treaty of Amity and Commerce between the United States and France contained a provision for most-favoured-nation treatment as well as a commitment by France to employ its good offices in North Africa to provide for the safety of American subjects and vessels against all violence from entities of Barbary.(5) Another provision states that either party may inspect the merchant ships of the other party upon suspicion of contraband when the vessel has traveled to the port of an enemy of the first party.(6) The paper proceeds in five parts as follows: Part I provides an overview of the trade and law enforcement linkage in four areas: security, health, human rights, and environmental protection. Part II presents a taxonomy of how trade measures are usable for law enforcement. Part III offers a synopsis of the WTO provisions relevant to law enforcement and national security. Part IV examines the ways that law enforcement efforts might infringe WTO rules. Part V considers new approaches for the WTO to promote law enforcement objectives. I. An Overview of Global Issues at the Intersection of Trade and Law Enforcement Part I of the paper surveys some of the key topics in the trade and law enforcement debate. These are issues where the law enforcement response may adversely affect trade or where the control of trade is a central part of the response. This survey will be divided into four sections: (A) Security, (B) Health, (C) Human Rights, and (D) Environmental Protection. Note that some of the examples below can fit into more than one section. A. Security Among the top security concerns are terrorism, money laundering, and traffic in arms. International instruments addressing terrorism focus on both the financial underpinnings as well as access to weapons. For example, the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing for Terrorism calls on parties to consider feasible measures to monitor the physical cross-border transportation of cash and bearer negotiable instruments, but without impeding in any way the freedom of capital movements.(7) The United Nations Security Council, in the landmark legislative Resolution 1373, decided that all states shall prohibit their nationals and persons within their territories from making any economic/financial resources or related services available for the benefit of persons who commit or attempt to commit terrorist acts.(8) Money laundering is in itself a criminal activity that is instrumental in supporting other criminal activities, both violent and non-violent. The key institution addressing money laundering is the transgovernmental Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering. Although export controls and anti-money laundering efforts are both designed to combat illegal activity, the imprecision of such efforts has the potential for spilling over and affecting legitimate business activity. Traffic in arms is the subject of a new U.N. Protocol Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, supplementing the U.N. Convention against Transnational Organized Crime.(9) The Protocol calls on signatories to control illegal trafficking which is defined as transborder trade among parties when one of the parties has not authorized the trade.(10) Furthermore, the Protocol calls for increased effectiveness of import, export, and transit controls.(11) Another international agreement with a linkage to trade is the Convention on the Marking of Plastic Explosives for the Purpose of Identification.(12) The Convention calls on parties to generally prohibit the transborder movement of unmarked explosives.(13) Security is also pursued through national export control regimes loosely coordinated in the Wassenaar Arrangement, which now includes 33 countries.(14) The significant economic impact of export controls comes from their coverage of dual-use technologies, such as fast computers. Such trade is not inherently problematic, but may be, depending on the identity of the buyers. Sometimes analysts characterize export controls as sanctions. Yet the primary intent of such controls is to prevent the transfer of a particular good or service, not to induce behavioral change. The problem of the movement of nuclear material is being addressed by the International Atomic Energy Agency, which has recently enhanced its anti-trafficking efforts, and the World Customs Organization (WCO), which has pointed out the need for better border controls against lethal shipments. For example in 1997, the WCO approved a Recommendation Concerning Action Against Illicit Cross-Border Movement of Nuclear and Hazardous Material.(15) The Recommendation urges governments to have appropriate regulations to deal with all aspects of illicit trafficking in nuclear and hazardous material. B. Health Treaties to control illegal liquor and drug trade began in the late 19th century, and the use of trade controls has always been part of the narcotics regime. In addition to narcotics, some other health-related issues of illegal trade are tobacco and generic drugs. The World Health Organization (WHO) Draft Framework Convention on Tobacco Control includes trade provisions.(16) The Convention calls on parties to enact or strengthen legislation against illicit trade in tobacco products, and defines illicit trade as a practice prohibited by law.(17) In addition, the Convention directs parties to consider measures to restrict importation by travelers of tax and duty-free tobacco products.(18) Another important issue is the evolving policy in the WTO on trade in compulsorily-licensed medicines. In December 2002, the WTO came close to agreeing on a decision to waive the requirement in the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) that production under compulsory license be predominantly for the supply of the domestic market.(19) The unadopted WTO decision would have established a new system of trade controls on drugs produced for export under a compulsory license, including provisions for labeling and notice.(20) In addition, the decision would have required importing country governments to take reasonable measures to prevent trade diversion through re-exportation. The WTO is seeking to thwart diversion in order to enable producers to discriminate, or price discriminate, in exports. The United States government has recently stepped up its action against the diversion of drugs exported by U.S. producers to the price-controlled Canadian market because such drugs are being sold back into the United States.(21) C. Human Rights Human rights concerns have arisen with respect to trade with particular countries (e.g., China) and with respect to trade based on odious production practices, such as goods produced by forced labor. The newest issue is conflict diamonds, which are diamonds originating in Sierra Leone, Liberia, or the Congo and sold by rebels in order to generate funds. This issue is distinguishable from many other human rights issues in that it affects more than one country yet only one product, and because what is at issue is not the production process, but rather the identity of the individuals profiting from the trade. In addition, the conflict diamond presents a security problem as well as a human rights problem because wars have raged over the control of diamond-producing regions.(22) The stakeholders in diamond trade have worked to develop a way to distinguish the salutary from the odious trade, and the result is the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme.(23) The Scheme defines conflict diamonds as rough diamonds used by rebel movements or their allies to finance conflict aimed at undermining illegitimate governments as described or recognized in various U.N. Security Council and General Assembly Resolutions.(24) The participant governments in the Scheme agreed to strict trade controls. Among participants, diamonds are to be accompanied by a validated certificate attesting that the diamond has been handled according to the origin and traceability expectations in the Scheme. Participants are also obligated to ban all trade in rough diamonds with non-participant countries. D. Environmental Protection International trade is generally recognized as a key factor in stimulating some serious environmental problems including: - release of ozone-depleting substances,(25) - taking of endangered species, - illegal logging, - transborder movement of hazardous wastes, and - illegal, unregulated, and unreported (IUU) fishing. Trade controls are used to address all of these challenges. The International Plan of Action to Prevent, Deter and Eliminate Illegal, Unreported and Unregulated Fishing was adopted in 2001 under the aegis of the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization.(26) Illegal fishing is defined broadly to include activity that is in violation of national laws or international obligations.(27) Under the Plan of Action, participating states agree to prevent fish from being traded or imported when caught by vessels identified as having been engaged in IUU fishing.(28) In a bow to other international norms, this provision further declares that such trade-related measures should be adopted in accordance with international law including the principles, rights, and obligations established in WTO agreements. Summary The purpose of this overview was to take note of some key global problems where the governmental response entails defining certain activities as illegal and where trade plays a role in addressing the problem. Part II of the paper moves from description to analysis by presenting a map of the issues. II. A Taxonomy of the Trade Linkage To solidify trade and law enforcement as a coherent topic, one has to begin the difficult analytical task of delineating and classifying the assorted pieces. With the caveat that any first attempt will need further refinement, this paper proposes the following four-part classification: - A. Measures Against Illegal International Trade - B. Measures Against Legal Trade Supporting Criminal Activity - C. Sanctions Against Governments To Address Non-Compliance Within A Treaty System - D. Sanctions Against Governments To Elicit Law Enforcement Cooperation Each use of trade measures in this taxonomy is discussed and illustrated below. A. Measures Against Illegal International Trade In general, any international trade transaction that is illegal has to violate the legal regime of some country.(29) Nevertheless, a useful distinction does exist between (1) Illegality that arises out of international law (and then is implemented by national law) and (2) Illegality that arises out of national law. Illegality can arise out of international law when a treaty obligates party governments to outlaw a specific transborder transaction. An example is the U.N. Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances. This Convention requires each party to adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish as criminal offences under its domestic law (when committed intentionally) the production, manufacture, sale, transport, importation or exportation of any narcotic drug contrary to the provisions of the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs (1961) or the Convention on Psychotropic Substances (1971).(30) Both of these earlier treaties contain rules regarding trade with parties and non-parties. Illegality can arise out of national law when such law makes importation or exportation unlawful. This might occur in at least three situations: First, a government might ban the trade because the product itself can be harmful. An example of this harmful trade category is the U.S. regulation banning the importation of certain semiautomatic assault rifles.(31) Second, a government might ban trade because the product (or its production process) diverges from a national norm. An example of this malum prohibitum category is the U.S. law banning interstate or foreign commerce in human organs.(32) Third, a government might ban an import because the exporting country bans the export (or vice versa). An example of this comity category is the U.S. law banning the importation of a pre-Columbian sculpture or mural unless the country of origin certifies that such exportation was not in violation of its law.(33) Another example is the provision in the U.S. Lacey Act that bans interstate or foreign commerce in any fish or wildlife taken or sold in violation of any foreign law.(34) B. Measures Against Legal Trade Supporting Criminal Activity A second unit of classification is nominally legal trade that becomes problematic only when it supports or induces illegal activity. Some examples are trade in stolen artwork and trade in conflict diamonds.. C. Sanctions Against Governments To Address Non-Compliance In A Treaty System The third and fourth units of classification are economic sanctions against a government to induce a change in that governments behavior. In Section C, the paper considers sanctions against non-compliance with a norm ostensibly shared by both the sender and the target countries, because such norm has been agreed to by a treaty or is customary international law. The distinction between Sections A and C is that while both address illegal activity, the illegal activity in A is trade, and the illegal activity in C is not trade. In Section D, the paper considers sanctions against behavior that diverges from what is expected by the sender government. There may be some shared normative ground between the countries, but the sanction is not premised on consent to the norm by the target country. Thus, the activities in Section D are not necessarily illegal in the jurisdiction where performed, and if they involve trade, the trade is not illegal. The trade sanctions to address non-compliance can be further subdivided into multilaterally-approved responses and unilateral responses. The two multilateral organizations that use trade sanctions as a retort to treaty non-compliance are the U.N. Security Council and the WTO. For example, the WTO recently authorized Brazil to impose a $248 million trade sanction against Canada because Canada had failed to comply with a WTO judgment.(36) In the Security Council, the practice of economic sanctions has evolved over the years to the use of less blunt, more targeted, so-called smart sanctions.(37) Unilateral responses are efforts undertaken outside of a multilateral treaty or other entity in order to promote treaty compliance even though the treaty or autonomous institutional arrangement does not provide for such action. The United States is the leading user of such measures, and U.S. law contains several of them. For example, trade sanctions are required or authorized against a foreign country that - has used chemical or biological weapons in violation of international law and has not agreed to stop such use and to allow inspections;(38) - has nationals who engage in large-scale driftnet fishing beyond the exclusive economic zone of any nation (given the U.S. policy to implement U.N. General Assembly Resolution 46215 which called for a global moratorium of such fishing);(39) or - is not complying with its obligations under an international fishery agreement with regard to the treatment of U.S. fishing vessels.(40) D. Sanctions Against Governments To Elicit Law Enforcement Cooperation Section D considers sanctions against behavior that diverges from what is expected by the sender government with respect to law enforcement. Such sanctions can be carried out multilaterally or unilaterally. Note that U.N. sanctions against states are included in Section C because such sanctions arise out of mutual obligations under the U.N. Charter. While no relevant multilateral trade sanctions have come to my attention, there is an important transgovernmental process that should be noted. That is the Financial Action Task Force on Money Laundering (FATF) which was set up in 1989 and now includes 31 governments.(41) The FATF has designated ten non-member countries as Non-Cooperative Countries and Territories, and has imposed the countermeasure of asking financial institutions to give special attention to business relations and transactions with persons from those countries, and to make certain findings available to law enforcement agencies. The largest target countries are Egypt, Indonesia, Myanmar, the Philippines, and the Ukraine. FATF may also recommend additional countermeasures, one of which is to warn businesses that transactions with companies in the listed country might run the risk of money laundering. Unilateral trade responses are undertaken to change the attitude of a target government. The United States is the leading user of such measures, and U.S. law contains several of them.(42) For example, trade sanctions are required or authorized against a foreign country that - has used chemical or biological weapons against its own nationals, and has not agreed to stop such use and to allow inspections;(43) - is a major producer or transit country for narcotics, unless the President certifies that the country meets certain conditions, based on satisfying goals in a bilateral agreement or applicable multilateral agreement;(44) - has nationals who engage in trade or taking which diminishes the effectiveness of any international program for endangered or threatened species;(45) or - supports terrorism or terrorist organizations or harbors terrorists or terrorist organizations.(46) None of these laws are premised on an acceptance of the norm by the target country. In contrast to these stick-based approaches, governments also use trade carrots to elicit cooperation from target countries. This has been done for many years in the Generalized System of Preferences (GSP) which provides duty-free access on some products to qualifying developing countries. For example, in the European Community GSP program, benefits may be temporarily suspended from a country that fails to conform to international conventions on money laundering.(47) In the United States GPS program, the President must withdraw GSP benefits from any country that aids or abets any individual or group which has committed an act of international terrorism.(48) In the U.S. preferential trade program for sub-Saharan Africa, there are several requirements for country eligibility including that the country does not engage in activities that undermine United States national security or foreign policy interests and that the country cooperates in international efforts to eliminate human rights violations and terrorist activities.(49) These determinations are made unilaterally by the U.S. President. Recently, U.S. Senator Pat Roberts proposed that all preferential trade benefits be linked to whether the country is cooperating with the United States on national security issues.(50) Summary The purpose of the taxonomy in Part II is to set out the various ways that trade and financial measures are employed to regulate commerce and to sanction governments. Having such a classification will aid future analysis of why such measures are used and whether this use is in accord with WTO law. In Parts III and IV, the paper turns to WTO law. Part III examines the provisions in the WTO that reflect the goals of security and law enforcement. Part IV offers an introduction to the issue of whether trade measures (such as those in Part II) are consistent with WTO rules. III. A Synopsis of Security and Law Enforcement Provisions in WTO Rules Although the WTO commenced operations in 1995, the international trade regime is much older, and so the story of trade and law enforcement has to begin with the pre-WTO era. In 1927, when governments drafted a comprehensive convention to prohibit trade bans, they recognized the need to provide an exception for prohibitions or restrictions relating to public security.(51) This exception was in addition to one for restrictions on traffic in arms, munitions or implements of war. In 1946-48, the Charter for the International Trade Organization (ITO) was drafted in parallel with the drafting of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) of 1947. The ITO Charter was much broader than the GATT and contained several provisions to promote cooperation for economic development and reconstruction. Among the topics embraced were labor standards, skills, technology, investment, and natural resource developmentissues that today fit under the rubric of sustainable development and good governance. Although the Charter did not contain provisions to promote cooperation against transborder threats to security, the Commercial Chapter of the Charter did provide a general exception to permit national measures necessary to the enforcement of laws and regulations relating to public safety.(52) This public safety exception was not placed in the GATT in 1947 or added to it later. Compared to the ITO Charter, the GATT is a much narrower agreement aimed at overcoming national measures that deny market access, distort trade, discriminate, or impede freedom of transit. Because some GATT rules might interfere with national law enforcement and security activities, the drafters provided several important exceptions in GATT Article XX, such as paragraph (a) for measures necessary to protect public morals and paragraph (b) for measures necessary to protect human, animal, or plant life or health. Furthermore, in Article XX(d), there is an exception for measures necessary to secure compliance with laws or regulations which are not inconsistent with the provisions of this [GATT] Agreement, including those relating to customs enforcement, the enforcement of monopolies . . . the protection of patents, trademarks and copyrights, and the prevention of deceptive practices.(53) In GATT Article XXI, there is a set of National Security exceptions to make clear that the GATT does not: (a) require information disclosure which a party considers contrary to its essential security interests; or (b) prevent a party from taking an action that it considers necessary relating to (i) fissionable materials, (ii) traffic in arms and other traffic for supplying a military establishment, or (iii) taken in time of war or other emergency in international relations; or (c) prevent a party from taking any action in pursuance of its obligations under the U.N. Charter for the maintenance of international peace and security. Because the WTO is a much newer instrument, several of the WTO agreements are more attentive than the GATT to the dual problems of trade that promotes illegal activity and trade that is illegal. For example, the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) contains two relevant General Exceptions: Article XIV(a) for measures necessary to protect public morals or to maintain public order and XIV(c) for measures necessary to secure compliance with laws or regulations which are inconsistent with GATS including those relating to safety.(54) Thus, GATS reaches back to the safety exception lost from the ITO Charter. The GATS also has Security Exceptions in Article XIV bis that mirror those in GATT Article XXI. In addition, the GATS Annex on the Movement of Natural Persons Supplying Services Under the Agreement contains a provision stating that the GATS.(55) Although this provision seems to impose a discipline, its impact is tempered by the need to read it in conjunction with the overall GATS Security Exceptions. In contrast to the GATS, the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) imposes some harmonization on law enforcement. The key provisions are: - TRIPS Articles 46 and 59 require member governments to provide for judicial authority to order the disposal or destruction of domestic or imported goods infringing intellectual property rights; and - TRIPS Article 61 requires member governments to impose criminal penalties in cases of willful trademark counterfeiting or copyright piracy on a commercial scale. In addition, TRIPS promotes cooperation and comity in several ways: - TRIPS Article 69 requires member governments to cooperate with a view to eliminating international trade in goods infringing intellectual property rights; - TRIPS Article 40.3 requires Government A to enter into consultations with Government B when B believes that an economic actor in Country A is violating Bs laws regarding anticompetitive practices in contractual licenses; and - TRIPS Article 4(a) contains an exception from the most-favored nation requirement for international agreements on judicial assistance or law enforcement of a general nature. This exception avoids any WTO problem in having an agreement with one country but not others. In summary, TRIPS effects a change in the substantive national law on intellectual property, and then includes specific disciplines to promote enforcement at the national level. IV. The Compatibility of Trade and Law Enforcement Measures with WTO Rules Although it is beyond the scope of this paper to do an analysis of the WTO-compatibility of a genre of trade measures, Part IV of this paper will introduce the legal issues. The tension between trade rules and law enforcement measures has been discussed by other commentators,(56) but no comprehensive analysis has been undertaken. The domain of the WTO is transborder economic activity, and yet WTO rules are eclectic. The rules for trade in goods do not apply to the payment side of the exchange, but rather only to the transfer of the good. The rules for trade in services can apply to payments, but governments retain discretion on accepting this discipline and retain a generous exception for balance of payments difficulties.(57) Furthermore, WTO rules in general do not seek to regulate the content of trade. Instead, the rules seek to supervise government restrictions on trade.(58) Within that narrow domain, WTO rules apply broadly to trade in goods (including goods embodying intellectual property rights) and services. The category of services is wider than many casual observers of the WTO imagine because GATS covers the movement of natural persons across borders to supply services. While such a fundamental point may be obvious, it is nevertheless worth stating that the illegality of an importation under the law of the importing country is not a justification under WTO rules to block the importation. Were it otherwise, a government could vitiate any WTO rule by making the contested trade illegal. That result would be manifestly absurd, and would contradict a basic principle of international law that A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty.(59) The interaction of domestic and WTO law was an issue in the Antidumping Act of 1916 case, where several governments lodged a WTO complaint about a U.S. statute that outlawed certain pricing practices on goods destined for the internal market. The panel held that the WTO Antidumping Agreement did not permit WTO member governments to have such a competition law.(60) In general, trade-related law enforcement measures can run afoul of two WTO rules. First, both the GATT and the GATS prohibit certain quantitative restrictions that impede market access.(61) This rule is violated by many of the measures discussed in Part II because they apply a quantitative restriction in the form of a trade ban. Second, both the GATT and the GATS contain a most-favoured-nation (MFN) requirement that makes it difficult to discriminate against particular foreign countries.(62) Despite this rule, many of the measures discussed in Part II are targeted against particular countries. The WTO also has some special sectoral rules that might be infringed with anti-crime efforts. For example, the GATS Understanding on Commitments in Financial Services states that governments shall not take measures to prevent transfers of information when such transfers are necessary for the conduct of the ordinary business of a financial service supplier.(63) When an inconsistency with a trade law obligation occurs, a government may avoid a WTO violation if a disputed measure is excused by an exception in a WTO covered agreement. As discussed in Part III, the key exceptions are in GATT Articles XX and XXI, and GATS Article XIV and XIV bis. By way of illustration, it might be possible to use these exceptions to justify some of the measures discussed in Parts I and II. For example, GATT Article XX(b) might justify the ban on conflict diamonds from non-participants to the Kimberley Scheme.(64) GATT Article XXI(b)(iii) might justify a ban on trade from countries using chemical or biological weapons. GATS Article XIV bis 1(c) might justify discriminatory actions to implement Security Council Resolution 1373. In applying the GATT Article XX exceptions, recent WTO jurisprudence suggests that panels will consider, among other factors, the extent to which the behavior being responded to is recognized as a problem by the international community, and the importance of the interest pursued.(65) Because such consideration necessitates a balancing of objectives, legal outcomes will not be easy to predict because they will turn on the facts of the case, with panels being on the lookout for protectionism disguised as legitimate law enforcement. In his article on trade and drugs, Kal Raustiala warned of the danger of narco-protectionism.(66) In GATT Article XX, there is a little-used exception in paragraph (d) for measures necessary to secure compliance with laws or regulations (which are not inconsistent with the GATT), including those relating to customs enforcement, monopolies, intellectual property, and deceptive practices. The WTO Appellate Body has stated that under this provision, it is not open to doubt that governments have the right to determine for themselves the level of enforcement of their WTO-consistent laws and regulations.(67) Thus, Article XX(d) could serve as a justification of customs enforcement at the border against trade implicated in an illegal practice, for example, the comity category discussed in Part II.A above. The potential role of this paragraph (d) exception is uncharted; as far as I know, no defense in a GATT or WTO case has been premised specifically on a customs enforcement purpose. In one relevant recent case, Argentina Hides and Leather, the panel agreed with Argentina that its measure was provisionally justified under Article XX(d) as necessary to avoid overt illegal actions under tax laws.(68) With regard to the Security Exceptions in GATT Article XXI, the GATT did not develop a practice of rigorously reviewing defenses offered under this Article.(69) The leading case is Nicaraguas complaint against the United States over the trade embargo in 1985. After Nicaragua lodged a complaint in the GATT, the United States refused to agree to a panel except under terms of reference that precluded the panel from considering the validity of or motivation for the Article XXI:(b)(iii) war/emergency defense which the United States had invoked.(70) Given that delimitation, the panel had little to do, but it did make a pertinent observation that the GATT could not achieve its basic aims unless each contracting party, whenever it made use of its rights under Article XXI, carefully weighed its security needs against the need to maintain stable trade relations.(71) The panel report was not adopted however. If a similar case were lodged in the WTO today, the defendant government would not be able to restrict the panels terms of reference, but it seems likely that a panel would reach the same result by refusing to secondguess a government as to the objective existence of an emergency in international relations.(72) Notwithstanding the available exceptions in GATT Articles XX and XXI,(73) the WTO recently moved to grant a four-year waiver for the trade controls against non-participants in the Kimberley Process Scheme. In November 2002, the Interlaken Declaration on the Scheme had stated the commitment to ensure that the measures taken will be consistent with international trade rules.(74) Ensuring that status is being accomplished by a waiver of the GATT rules requiring most-favoured nation treatment and forbidding quantitative restrictions and related discrimination.(75) In addition to explicit WTO exceptions, national trade measures may perhaps avoid being ruled a WTO violation when there is a specific trade obligation dictated in another treaty. Many analysts have speculated about how the WTO might fit into a hierarchy of international norms, should a treaty conflict occur. But so far, there is no applicable caselaw in the WTO or other international tribunal. Finally, let me note a topic of WTO law that has received little attention: the status of trade measures against individuals. For example, the measures against IUU fishing discussed in Part I.D are aimed at fishing vessels. While WTO law is well-defined about restrictions against specific products or against countries, the topic of restrictions against individuals has not arisen. Another undefined legal issue is export controls contingent on the identity of the recipient in the importing country and what it will do with the item. If Country A prohibits the export of a technology to a specific person in Country B because that person may transfer the technology to a terrorist in Country C, then Countries B and C could have a cause of action in the WTO. So far, no case like that has been filed. In summary, although many trade-related law enforcement measures would violate WTO non-discrimination rules, broad defenses are available for governments to invoke in any case brought to the WTO. So long as the WTO continues the GATT practice of deference to governmental volitions regarding national security, WTO law seems unlikely to impede such efforts. Part V of this paper will discuss the other side of the coin, that is, whether the WTO can facilitate law enforcement. V. Can the WTO Promote the Enforcement of Non-Trade Law? Social actors have proposed more WTO involvement in supervising trade, but WTO governments have resisted most of these ideas. The telos of the WTO is to combat official restrictions on trade, not to impose restrictions. That said, all of the stakeholders in the WTO system recognize the role of TRIPS and GATS in beginning to transform the WTO into an institution of positive cooperation and integration. Four possibilities exist for how the WTO could help control illegal activity. They are: A. Achieving More Trade Liberalization, B. Demanding Conformity to Specified Non-Trade Law, C. Promoting Cooperation Among Members, and D. Improving Cooperation with other International Organizations. Each of these is discussed and illustrated below. A. Achieving More Trade Liberalization The WTO can help other causes by being more successful in its own mission of trade liberalization. This assumes that trade liberalization and the ensuing growth is complementary to better law enforcementa reasonable proposition, but one without supporting evidence. One example of a positive trade effect would be agricultural trade liberalization that enables new markets and gives narcotics growers an alternative productive use of land.(76) The U.N. General Assembly saw this connection in 1992 when it passed a resolution regarding narcotics which, among other points, encouraged the pursuit of trade liberalization to enhance trading opportunities of countries affected by illicit production of narcotic drugs.(77) B. Demanding Conformity to Specified Non-Trade Law In requiring member governments to comply with specified provisions of listed treaties on intellectual property, the WTO shows its potential for imposing harmonization.(78) Thus, it would certainly be possible for the WTO to designate adherence to other treaties as a requirement for WTO membership. Any such decision in the WTO would have to be reached by consensus. The Kimberley Scheme presents a good example of what more the WTO could do. At present, the only action being taken by the WTO is to grant a limited waiver. In effect, the WTO is smoothing its interface with the Kimberley Scheme by staying out of the way as Kimberley participants implement their obligations. If the WTO wanted to do more, it could seek to require member governments to participate in the trade controls of the Kimberley Scheme. One way to do this would be to clarify that the Kimberley rules are an international standard under the WTO Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade, which would then trigger an obligation that each government use the standard as a basis of its own technical regulation.(79) Governments failing to do so could be brought before a WTO dispute panel. Another possible initiative is stronger Transparency in Government Procurement, which is now being discussed at the WTO.(80) It would be possible for the WTO to require adherence to international anti-bribery conventions and to require reporting of all payments made to governments (with protection of business confidential information). It is interesting to note that one of the conditions for country participation in U.S. preferential trade benefits to sub-Saharan Africa is whether the country has a system to combat corruption and bribery, such as signing and implementing the Convention on Combating Bribery of Foreign Public Officials in International Business Transactions. Thus, a precedent exists for linking trade to anti-corruption efforts. C. Promoting Cooperation Among WTO Members In the pre-WTO era, there were only a few attempts to promote positive cooperation among governments, and such efforts have not been significantly stepped up at the WTO.(82) As noted in Part III, TRIPS has a provision requiring member governments to cooperate with a view to eliminating international trade in goods infringing intellectual property rights. As far as I know, no collective action has been taken to implement this provision. It would be possible for the WTO to undertake broader anti-crime cooperation using bilateral agreements as a model. Consider the following examples: The Europe Association Agreement with Lithuaniawhich is broader than a trade agreementcontains an Article on Money Laundering that calls for cooperation against laundering of proceeds from criminal activities.(83) In addition, the Agreement calls for Cooperation in the Prevention of Illegal Activities, such as illegal trafficking in drugs and illegal transactions involving industrial waste and counterfeit products.(84) The Free Trade Agreement between Canada and Costa Rica commits the parties to developing a technical cooperation customs program including the prevention and detection of contraband and illegal activities.(85) Another example is the new draft Free Trade Agreement between the United States and Singapore.(86) This Agreement contains provisions to enhance cooperation and information-sharing regarding import or exports that are in violation of one of the partys laws.(87) The Agreement also commits the governments to employ customs enforcement techniques that focus on high-risk goods.(88) One potential area for cooperation is the transborder movement of natural persons. Although the ongoing GATS negotiations will attempt to liberalize restrictions, the feelings of insecurity afflicting many countries, including the United States, will probably put a damper on the depth of commitments made to ease visa requirements. These negotiations could perhaps be aided if the WTO facilitated the development of best practices in temporary immigration policy, rather than leave every country the full responsibility to design an effective policy for keeping out undesirable individuals. D. Improving Cooperation with other International Organizations Although the WTO has general authority to cooperate with international organizations that have responsibilities related to those of the WTO, the WTO has not in fact undertaken much cooperation.(89) Whether the WTO should engage in more active cooperation depends on changes in the WTOs mandate. For example, the current WTO negotiations regarding the environment, including the issue of fishery subsidies, might lead to a need for the WTO to cooperate with the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization and perhaps the U.N. Environment Programme. At present, the WTO lacks any policy on transborder terrorism or other criminal activity (other than intellectual property). Should that change in the future, with the adoption of either rules or soft law, there would then be a good reason for the WTO to agree to cooperation with the relevant international organizations and entities responsible for anti-crime programs. If more cooperation ensues as discussed in Sections C and D, there may be a need to make sure that governments do not have to disclose sensitive information regarding law enforcement or a security interest. The GATT contains provisions clarifying that such disclosure is not required, and several WTO agreements contain similar provisions.(90) *Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering. The opinions expressed are those of the author only. ©Steve Charnovitz. Original presentation March 6, 2003; manuscript revised April 15, 2003. 1. For example, see Raj Bhala, Fighting Bad Guys with International Trade Law, 31 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT DAVIS LAW REVIEW 1 (1997). Notwithstanding the title of this article, the content is mainly about the use of U.S. law to fight bad guys. The trade-and research most focused on the WTO and law enforcement was a study by Kal Raustiala that sought to highlight the need for greater political attention and more sustained research into the interactions between drug control and international economic liberalization . . . . Kal Raustiala, Law, Liberalization & International Narcotics Trafficking, 32 NEW YORK UNIVERSITY JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW & POLITICS 89, 144 (1999). 2. See generally Symposium: The Boundaries of the WTO, 96 AMERICAN JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW 1 (José Alvarez ed., 2002). 3. Trade can be impeded unintentionally because of the difficulty of distinguishing between legal and illegal trade. 4. For example, see Peter Menyasz, Newfoundland Expresses Trade Concerns about Proposed U.S. Bioterrorism Regulations, BNA DAILY REPORT FOR EXECUTIVES, Apr. 7, 2003, at A-13. 5. Treaty of Amity between the United States and France, Feb. 6, 1778, 7 Bevans 763, arts. 2, 8 (not in force). 6. Id. art. 14. 7. International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing for Terrorism, Dec. 9, 1999, U.N. General Assembly Res. 54/109, art. 18.2. 8. U.N. Security Counci, Res. 1373 , para. 1(d) (Sept. 28, 2001). 9. Protocol Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Their Parts and Components and Ammunition, supplementing the U.N. Convention against Transnational Organized Crime, U.N. General Assembly Resolution 55/222 (May 8, 2001). 10. Protocol, art. 3(e). 11. Id. art. 11. 12. Convention on the Marking of Plastic Explosives for the Purpose of Identification, March 1, 1991, 30 ILM 721. 13. Id. art. 3. 14. See. 15. Recommendation of the Customs Co-operation Council Concerning Action Against Illicit Cross-Border Movement of Nuclear and Hazardous Material (including their wastes), June 19, 1997, available at. 16. Draft WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, A/FCTC/INB6/5 (March 3, 2003). See David P. Fidler, World Health Organizations Framework Convention for Tobacco Control, ASIL INSIGHTS (March 28, 2003). 17. Draft WHO Framework Convention, arts. 1(a), 15.4(b). 18. Id. art. 6.2. 19. See Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS), art. 31(f). 20. WTO Council for TRIPS, Implementation of Paragraph 6 of the Doha Declaration on the TRIPS Agreement and Public Health, Note from the Chairman (Dec. 16, 2002). 21. Thomas M. Burton, The FDA Begins Cracking Down on Cheaper Drugs from Canada, WALL STREET JOURNAL, March 12, 2003, at A1. 22. U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley, the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, stated that the conflict diamond is a trade issue, a consumer issue, and most of all, a human rights issue. Gary G. Yerkey, President Set to Sign Bill to End Trade in Conflict Diamonds Following House OK, BNA DAILY REPORT FOR EXECUTIVES, Apr. 14, 2003, at A-14 (discussing passage of the Clean Diamond Trade Act). 23. Tracey Michelle Price, The Kimberley Process: Conflict Diamonds, WTO Obligations, and the Universality Debate, 12 MINNESOTA JOURNAL OF GLOBAL TRADE 1 (2003). 24. Kimberley Process Certification Scheme, § I, available at. 25. See, e.g., Spencer Tripp & Brittany Whiting, The Illegal Trade in Chemicals that Destroy Ozone, TRIO: NEWSLETTER OF THE NORTH AMERICAN COMMISSION FOR ENVIRONMENTAL COOPERATION, Spring 2003, at 1 (noting that the United States is the largest black market destination for ozone depleting chemicals, many coming through Mexico). 26. International Plan of Action to Prevent, Deter and Eliminate Illegal, Unreported and Unregulated Fishing, March 2, 2001, available at. 27. Id. para. 3.1.3. 28. Id. para. 66. The identification is to be done by the relevant regional fisheries management organization. 29. If there is any treaty or customary international law that would be directly applied against an individual trader, that has not come to my attention. 30. U.N. Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances, Dec. 20, 1988, art. 3.1(a), available at. 31. Roberto Suro, President Making Gun Import Ban Permanent, WASHINGTON POST, Apr. 6, 1998, at A6. The domestic sale of such rifles apparently remains legal. 32. 42 U.S.C. § 274e. Such trade is presumably not harmful to the donor and would be very helpful to the recipient. So it is not malum in se. 33. 19 U.S.C. § 2092(a). 34. 16 U.S.C. § 3372(a)(2)(A). 35. U.N. Security Council, Res. No. 1343, para. 6 (Mar. 7, 2001). 36. WTO Press Release, WTO Allows Brazil Sanctions Against Canada in Aircraft Dispute, March 19, 2003. 37. See MAKING TARGETED SANCTIONS EFFECTIVE. GUIDELINES FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF UN POLICY OPTIONS (Peter Wallensteen et al. eds., 2003). 38. 22 U.S.C. § 5605(b)(2)(D). 39. 16 U.S.C. § 1826a(b). 40. 16 U.S.C. § 1825. 41. See. 42. Richard N. Haass, Sanctioning Madness, 76(6) FOREIGN AFFAIRS 74 (1997). 43. 22 U.S.C. § 5605(b)(2)(D). 44. 19 U.S.C. § 2492. 45. 22 U.S.C. § 1978(a). 46. 22 U.S.C. § 2349aa9(a). 47. Council Regulation (EC) No. 2501/2001, art. 26. This condition is not dependent on whether the beneficiary country is a party to the conventions. 48. 19 U.S.C. § 2462. The President may continue such benefits if he finds that doing so is in the national economic interest. 49. Africa Growth and Opportunity Act, 19 U.S.C. § 3704(a) (emphasis added). 50. Gary G. Yerkey, Sen. Roberts Favors Linking Trade Benefits To Cooperation on National Security Issues, BNA DAILY REPORT FOR EXECUTIVES, March 28, 2003, at A-18. 51. International Convention for the Abolition of Import and Export Prohibitions and Restrictions, Nov. 8, 1927, 97 LNTS 391, art. 4.2. 52. Charter for an International Trade Organization, Mar. 24, 1948, art. 45.1(a)(ii), available at. 53. General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) Art. XX(d) (emphasis added). This exception was also present in the ITO Charter. 54. General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) Art. XIV (emphasis added). 55. GATS Annex, para. 4 (footnote omitted). 56. For example, see Alyssa Woo, Health Versus Trade: The Future of the WHOs Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, 35 VANDERBILT JOURNAL OF TRANSNATIONAL LAW 1731, 1763-64 (2002). 57. GATS arts. XI, XII. GATS Article XI refers to payments and transfers for current transactions, and thus does not specifically include transfers of profits. Note that some free trade agreements can contain disciplines to permit the transfer of profits. For example, the North American Free Trade Agreement (art. 1109.1) requires parties to permit the transfer of profits, but another provision (art. 1109.4) allows governments to prevent a transfer relating to criminal or penal offenses. North American Free Trade Agreement, December 17, 1993, 32 ILM 296. 58. The main exception is TRIPS which does seek to disallow certain trades between consenting economic actors. 59. Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, May 23, 1969, 1155 UNTS 331, art. 27. 60. United States Anti-dumping Act of 1916, Report of the Appellate Body, WT/DS136/AB/R (Aug. 28, 2000). 61. GATT art. XI (with some sectoral exclusions); GATS art. XVI (in sectors where commitments are undertaken). 62. GATT art. I; GATS art. II. In addition, several of the specialized agreements on trade in goods contain MFN provisions. The specific requirement in the GATT is not to treat a product from another country more favorably than a like product from a WTO member country. 63. GATS Understanding on Commitments in Financial Services, para. 8. 64. Whether Article XX(b) is a good defense to safeguard life outside the jurisdiction of the importing country would be contestable. 65. For example, see United States Import Prohibition of Certain Shrimp and Shrimp Products, Report of the Appellate Body, WT/DS58/AB/R, paras. 168, 17071 (Oct. 12, 1998); European Communities Measures Affecting Asbestos and Asbestos-Containing Products, Report of the Appellate Body, WT/DS135/AB/R, para. 172 (March 12, 2001). 66. Raustiala, supra note 1, at 129. 67. Korea Measures Affecting Imports of Fresh, Chilled and Frozen Beef, Report of the Appellate Body, WT/DS161/AB/R, para. 176 (Dec. 11, 2000). 68. Argentina Measures Affecting the Export of Bovine Hides and the Import of Finished Leather, Report of the Panel, WT/DS155/R, paras. 11.29211.295 (Dec. 19, 2000). Nevertheless, the panel found that the contested measure was unjustifiable discrimination in violation of the Article XX chapeau. 69. JOHN H. JACKSON, WORLD TRADE AND THE LAW OF GATT 74852 (1969); Raj Bhala, National Security and International Trade Law: What the GATT Says, and What the United States Does, 19 UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC LAW 263 (1998). 70. United States Trade Measures Affecting Nicaragua, L/6053 (Oct. 13, 1986) (unadopted), available at worldtradelaw.net. 71. Id. para. 5.16. 72. For a study of the possibilities of justiciability, see Dapo Akande & Sope Williams, International Adjudication on National Security Issues: What Role for the WTO?, 43 VIRGINIA JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW 365 (2003). The meaning of international emergency is explored in Sarah H. Cleveland, Human Rights Sanctions and International Trade: A Theory of Compatibility, 5 JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL ECONOMIC LAW 133, 18386 (2002). 73. For a discussion of why the Scheme is not a violation of WTO rules, see Joost Pauwelyn, What to Make of the WTO Waiver for Conflict Diamonds: WTO Compassion or Superiority Complex?, 24 MICHIGAN JOURNAL OF INTERNATIONAL LAW (forthcoming 2003). 74. Interlaken Declaration of 6 November 2002 on the Kimberley Process Certification Scheme for Rough Diamonds, para. 3, available at. 75. WTO Council for Trade in Goods, Waiver Concerning Kimberley Process Certification Scheme for Rough Diamonds, Draft Decision, G/C/W/432/Rev. 1 (Feb. 24, 2003). The waiver states that the WTO action does not prejudge the consistency of measures to implement the Kimberley Scheme, but is being given for reasons of legal certainty. The waiver, which applies only to governments seeking it, does not extend to a potential violation of the Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade. 76. Raustiala, supra note 1, at 126, 130. 77. U.N. General Assembly, Examination of the Status of International Cooperation against the Illicit Production, Sale, Demand, Traffic and Distribution of Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances, A/RES/47/99, para. 1(e) (Dec. 16, 1992). 78. TRIPS arts. 1, 9. These requirements only extend to the treatment of aliens, not to domestic economic actors. 79. See Agreement on Technical Barriers to Trade (TBT), art. 2.4, which requires a showing that the international standard would not be ineffective or inappropriate for the fulfillment of a legitimate objective in the importing country. In the only case so far under this provision, the WTO held that the European Community had violated Article 2.4 for failing to follow a standard of the Codex Alimentarius Commission regarding sardine labeling. 80. See Kimberly Ann Elliott, Corruption as an International Policy Problem: Overview and Recommendations, in CORRUPTION AND THE GLOBAL ECONOMY 175233 (Kimberly Ann Elliott ed., 1997). 81. 19 U.S.C. § 3704(a)(1)(E). On the Convention, see Padideh Alai, The Legacy of Geographical Morality and Colonialism: A Historical Assessment of the Current Crusade Against Corruption, 33 VANDERBILT JOURNAL OF TRANSNATIONAL LAW 877 (2000). 82. For example, in 1979, the GATT parties considered, but did not adopt, an Agreement on Measures to Discourage the Importation of Counterfeit Goods. The draft Agreement required governments to deal with imported counterfeit goods in a manner that deprives the persons involved of the economic benefits of the transaction. Counterfeit goods were defined as goods with a false representation of a trademark that is entitled to protection under the law of the country of importation. In addition, the parties agreed to consult with each other with a view to strengthening intellectual property rights. Agreement on Measures to Discourage the Importation of Counterfeit Goods, L/4817 (July 31, 1979). 83. Europe Agreement Establishing an Association between the European Communities and their Member States, of the one part, and the Republic of Lithuania, of the other part, June 12, 1995, art. 90, available at. 84. Id. art. 102. 85. Free Trade Agreement between Canada and Costa Rica, Apr. 23, 2001, art. IX.3, para. 2(c), available at. 86. U.S.Singapore Free Trade Agreement, available at. 87. Id. art. 4.5. 88. Id. art. 4.9. 89. See Agreement Establishing the World Trade Organization, art. V:1. 90. GATT arts. X:1, XXI(a); GATS art. III bis; TRIPS art. 63.4; Agreement on Trade-Related Investment Measures, art. 6.3; Agreement on Safeguards, art. 12.11; and Agreement on Import Licensing Procedures, art. 1.11.

Washington, D.C. Michael Elliott [ME]:…to that we’ll throw it open to you to ask questions of the panelists. So we’ll have a word I’ve just coined, a multi-log. Not a dialogue, but a multi-log. You really are important participants in this sort of meeting. This is not just us up here talking to you, but we very much want to get you involved as much as you can. Now I’ve been warned, and I suppose I should know this because I’ve chaired many meetings for Les, but I’ve been warned again that those who attend Council meetings, particularly in the evening, have a disheartening habit of being polite and gentlemanly. We don’t want you to be polite and gentlemanly this evening. We’ve got an absolutely fantastic panel of people and we want you to pepper them with as many questions as you possibly can. I’ll get the other essential bit of Council business out of the way before I introduce the three panelists. This is a classic Council, not-for-attribution meeting. This means the participants are welcome, participants that’s you, are welcome to make use of the information received in the meeting but neither the identity of the speakers nor that of any other participant may be revealed, nor may one cite the Council as the source of the information. On my far left I have Gerald Martone, the Director of Emergency Response at one of the world’s great NGOs, the International Rescue Committee, based in the headquarters here in the city. Gerald is responsible for implementing emergency start-up operations, maintaining the IRC’s readiness to respond rapidly when conducting assessments of complex humanitarian emergencies. Next to Gerry is Yitzhak Nakash, Associate Professor of Modern Middle Eastern Study at Brandeis University, Director of its program in Islamic and Middle East studies, author in particular on the Shi’as of Iraq, and as we’ve been discussing in the last half hour, with fascinating insights to Iraqi society more generally. On my immediate left, William Nash, Director of the Center for Preventive Action here at the Council. Bill Nash is a retired Army Major General, commanded an armored Brigade in Operation Desert Storm, which I suppose we can call Gulf War I now, and led US troops into Bosnia after the Dayton Accords, and a former Regional UN Administrator in Kosovo. So we’ve got a fantastic trio of people up here with wonderful expertise across the range of military and security topics, of humanitarian and reconstruction topics, and of political and Arab society topics. When we were discussing how we might handle this just before the meeting, I suggested that we start our remarks with what I call a one-week, a one-month, and a one-year perspective. So I’m going to turn to Bill first and say a week-out where do we look, how do things look, and what are the issues? William Nash [WN]: Okay. Thank you, Michael. Well, I think as we look to next week, and if I may, maybe a week after that ... ME: Sure. WN:…just not to be too certain on my predictions, we’ll start to see the downturn, if you will, of the combat military operations that we have experienced the last three weeks. Baghdad operations will continue but we’ll start closing the gap between Baghdad in the Kurdish enclave, to the northern third of the country. And in between lie three key cities, Mosul, Kirkuk and in Tikrit. Tikrit is where I think eventually everything will kind of join. New forces will be introduced in the next week. Some have already arrived and are working the lines of communications, but the 4th Infantry Division, the one that was supposed to go to Turkey, most of the division soldiers are in Kuwait, many of the ships have been unloaded, and that process is ahead of what they thought it might have been a couple weeks ago. And so we’ll see the introduction late next week possibly of the lead elements in the 4th Infantry Division. I would imagine they will go around Baghdad and head to and start filling up that area around Tikrit. And that process will continue. But what we’re really going to see, quote, “next week,” is more and more of the transition to the post-war situation. When I say post-war I don’t mean the absence of violence and I don’t mean the absence of death and great confrontations, but the transition from military combat to the establishment of public security. That task will be as difficult to accomplish, not in terms of violence, but in terms of presence and operations as we’ve seen to date. We are already seeing signs in Basra, Umm Qasr, Safwan, Nasiriyah, and you work your way up following the attack of the towns that have been liberated, the evidence of chaos, looting, revenge killings, and I would predict that the beginnings of political intrique, actually, they probably started long ago but we’ll see more evidence in the next week or two. So the military forces who have put their whole heart and soul, minds and body into the fight will now start having to transition from that perspective to the one of establishing public security, which is the enabler for all else in a post-war Iraq. ME: Bill, are you worried that there will be a fairly long period of hit-and-run attacks by regulars, by Fedayeen, by guerillas, what have you? WN: I am. I think that despite the status-known or unknown-of Saddam Hussein and his inner circle, there will be pockets of resistance that will remain, using the guerilla-type raids, terrorist-type activities, and just to throw more concern into it, and this is a typical military guy who is trying to worry about everything he’s supposed to worry about, I see the potential for an intifada-type resistance to our presence over time. ME: Gerry, one month out, one month, two months, what have you, what are the humanitarian, the reconstruction essentials? What are the demands? Gerald Martone [GM]: In the short term obviously there is a real need to respond to the immediate physical needs of Iraqi civilians, particularly civilians in flight. But that is a very short-term objective. Very shortly after that the more paternalistic kinds of aid that you’re seeing now, which is hand-outs of food and giving of water, really has to change into a system that really emphasizes self-reliance and restoration of livelihoods. The challenge for us will be that Iraq is a different environment. We can’t use Afghanistan as the biopsy for the lessons of how we should respond to this particular crisis. Iraq has far more assets and resources available to it. Tikrit civilization is very high, rates of literacy, high rates of matriculation from colleges and universities that is one of the godfather acts of Saddam Hussein was to get people university educations. It’s a secular society, it’s industrialized. For the most part, for us, in terms of our staffing of humanitarian programs and recovery programs, we’re finding that Bosnia and Kosovo are a more likely precedence of what kinds of places, what kinds of former precedence we have for how we should react to the crisis in Iraq. We really have found lots of professional staff with professional degrees who are well-educated and fairly progressive. It’s a really different environment than what we’ve seen in Afghanistan. ME: How easy are people finding it to get stuff in, insofar as stuff needs to be got in? GM: Well, first of all, in almost any war situation, any of you who have been in a conflict zone know, there’s never been a war where you couldn’t buy beer and cigarettes. There is a notion of a war economy, in fact even when the war is not won there are winners. There’s thriving commerce, there’s black marketeers, there are people who profit. There are ways of smuggling. Iraq, after 12 years of economic isolation and economic embargo the country has a lot of expert smugglers. When I was in northern Iraq in October, we were pricing supplies. We were able to get Dell hard-drives, computers, for a price less than what we’re paying here in New York for them. (Laughter) Some of the specialty humanitarian equipment that we require, pumps, generators, water tanker trucks, were all readily available in the markets of Salamannia. It was really quite striking. Last Friday, our team had just done a day trip into Umm Qasr, went across from Kuwait into the City of Umm Qasr to do a quick am. And one of the things in addition to this quick survey that they were doing was they had a…they were doing a beer run. (Laughter) They basically had a supply list of alcohol that you couldn’t buy in Kuwait City that was readily available in Umm Qasr. So it’s not a resource poor environment. There are things there, and we have to learn to sort of tap into that. ME: Yitzhak, a year out, what are the key elements of Iraqi society that we should keep an eye on in terms of how the politics and the government of Iraq’s likely to develop? Yitzhak Nakash [YN]: As most of you know, the three major groups in Iraq are Sunnis, Shi’ites and Kurds. Sunnis are about 17 percent of the population. The Shi’ites are 60 percent. The Kurds are about 20 percent. There are other groups, smaller groups. Since 1921, it was the Sunni minority that dominated the Shi’ites and the Kurds. I suspect that this relation of power is going to change in a post-Saddam Iraq. The United States would need to reach out to the Shi’ite majority, which it hasn’t known or trusted. And at the same time take measures to insure that there won’t be revenge and tyranny against the Sunni minority. The United States would also need to guarantee the socio-political rights of the Kurds within a reunified Iraq. Now, in the next coming months we would see U.S. officials assisted by Iraqis beginning the process that some have termed as de-Ba’athification. Although we may see a level of de-Ba’athification, I think it is very possible, and in fact desirable, to leave as many civilian technocrats as possible in their current positions. This would not only ease the task of reconstruction, but signal to the Sunni minority that the downfall of the Ba’ath regime was not intended to strip them of power. In the coming months the United States would also need to continue to pressure Turkey to limit its activities in northern Iraq. The more leverage Turkey has inside Iraq, the more leverage Iran would seek by attempting to interfere with Shiite affairs in the country. And the more involved Iran becomes, the more involved the Arab states would want to be, by claiming to safeguard the interests of the Sunnis. Obviously there would have to be pressures on the neighboring countries not to interfere in Iraqi affairs. As far as the government system: there is a lot of talk about full-fledged democracy in Iraq. In my book there are other possibilities for success short of a full-fledged democracy. Until such time when Iraqis are ready to form political parties and elect their own national leaders, we may see a government that represents proportionally the major groups in the country. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Shi’ite president, a Sunni prime minister and a Kurdish speaker of parliament. That’s one possibility. In any case, the criteria for measuring success will be the degree of stability and openness of the political system that would take shape in a post-Saddam Iraq. In a new Iraq, we may see a shift from Pan-Arabism, the nationalist ideology that has been preferred by the ruling Sunni elite, to Iraqi nationalism, the type of nationalism that has been preferred by the Shi’ite majority. Finally, I think that in the coming months we will see the beginning of Shi’ite religious revivalism in Iraq. This would manifest itself primarily in Najaf, which until 1946 acted as the center of Shi’ite scholarship before it was eclipsed by Qum in Iran. This is of course something that would not be achieved overnight. It’s a process that will take many years to mature. ME: Now, it seems to me that it is impossible to kind of break into neat compartments military and sub-military and security concerns, reconstruction, economic development and humanitarian concerns, political and social concerns. But I want to ask all three of you this question. From the standpoint of each of your specialties, military and security, reconstruction, humanitarian aid, politics and society, how long do you think a substantial number—you can define that as you like—of American or other coalition troops will be needed to stay in Iraq? To maintain security, Bill, what would you say? WN: I would start at a one-year mark. By that I would make the initial plan not unlike we did in Bosnia, (for different reasons) but I would look at a one-year mark and then make six-month re-evaluations after that. I mean, in my gut I think two years is about right and then sometime over, with a major determining factor, is the ability…you know, I was talking to, Gerry, one of your compatriots today about the police issue, in other words how we can…how we will do in developing the local police, how we’ll do with the army and the restructuring and refocusing of both the police and the military. They could then bring that number down faster. That’s why if, just to conclude, I am very interested in internationalizing that security role as much as possible. Because that’s a major commitment for a long time. ME: Right. Gerry, in terms of reconstruction, humanitarian assistance, how long do you think Iraq is going to need a degree of outside security forces, external security forces? GM: Thanks, Michael. I don’t know if I could even give a credible guess on that. I’m really not sure. Unfortunately, some of the previous situations that we might find analogous, the other manhunts that we’ve been in, such as Afghanistan, Serbia, Panama, Haiti, if we looked at those as a picture of the future of Iraq I think the prognosis would be somewhat grim. They are unsuccessful in terms of ushering in democracy and stability for most of its citizens. And one might expect the same to be the case in Iraq. I think Bill correctly predicts that some of the worst of the crisis is yet to come. And certainly that’s what we’re seeing in Afghanistan right now. If you read daily the attacks on US forces and the kinds of deterioration of security for the average Afghan it’s just astounding. It’s far worse than during the days of the Taliban for sure. ME: Literally worse, you think? Literally worse? GM: Yeah. I mean, if you read the kinds of attacks that are happening in Iraqi grenades daily launches into the fortresses where your forces are staying. And then also look at in 1991 Desert Storm, the bloodletting that occurred after the war. You know, I just looked at some mortality statistics of one year out after Desert Storm, and we were very much concerned with sort of the civilian death toll. There were about 35 hundred deaths, 3,500 deaths due to bombing in Desert Storm; 14,000 deaths of civilians, I’m talking about, due to water-borne diseases. That’s where we focus a lot. But 35,000 deaths due to retribution and acts of vengeance afterwards, one year out. That’s ten times more than died in the bombing. So a lot of people look at the current bombing now and say, Wow, the internal displacements and the refugee flows across the borders have not been so great. We expected worse. It’s true that the planning figures were much higher. Although we forgot precedence. Right? People don’t flee during bombing. It’s after bombing that populations tend to move. So if this is the case, I would be somewhat pessimistic of the future once the cameras turn away, once the robust military presence and the robust humanitarian aid presence is no longer there, what would be left? ME: Yitzhak, you and I were talking an hour ago about how long you thought American or other external forces would be needed to guarantee a kind of smooth transition to some eventual moment of stable, I don’t know whether one wants to use the word “democratic,” but stable, pluralistic society. Give us a time frame. YN: It’s hard to really nail down the number of years, but I think that in pursuing the current war, the United States has undertaken to deal with power relations in Iraq. We also hear talk every now and then about Iraq being a U.S. base that might replace Saudi Arabia. But we don’t know to what extent this is true or not. There would be conditions on the ground as well as international constraints and domestic constraints here in the U.S. that would influence the actual number of months or years that the United States would stay. My sense is that it is going to be longer than shorter. The parameters, or the criteria that I would use to measure success in Iraq, would be how decent the civilian government is by the time the U.S. is contemplating leaving the country. What would be the role of the Iraqi military in a post-Saddam Iraq? What would be the relationship between the military and the civilian politicians? All these are important factors. I suspect that it is going to take perhaps two years before we see some political stabilization. But even then, it may be that there will be less of U.S. presence in cities and more in military bases. The question when Iraq would be free from American soldiers is a completely different story. ME: Bill, you’re nodding your head and of course you have a lot of Balkans experience. I wondered if you could bring that perspective to this here. WN: Well, the art in all of this is to balance the presence of American forces in the cities, as a police force, preventing these cycles of revenge and the like from taking place, with the need not to appear as an occupier. And it’s ... ME: It’s tricky. WN: It’s damn near an oxymoron, right? (Laughter) And I think Yitzhak brings up a good point, if as we’ve done in Bosnia, as we draw back and get…consolidate camps and get out of everyday presence and maybe, you know, you go from a soldier on the corner to a soldier on patrol, to a soldier on patrol every now and then, to coming by once a week and seeing how it’s all going, to just knowing that if there’s a lot of shooting those guys are going to come back from over the hill and deal with it. So there is a balance there. And again, what I had not read about, what I have not understood, despite asking questions about it, has to do with what’s the program to develop the indigenous police, the Iraqi patrolmen who are going to help establish public security. YN: There is another point that I think we need to start paying attention to. It would be very interesting to see what would be the nature of Iraqi nationalism, the way it’s going to develop. Is it going to be anti-American or pro-American? I suspect that one of the reasons why the Shiites have not rebelled against Saddam Hussein during this war has to do not only with their fear of the regime, or with feelings of betrayal by the United States in 1991, but also one of the major factors has to do with the strong Iraqi national identity of the Shi`ites. Shiites did not rebel because they didn’t want to be in a situation where they are accused like in the wake of the Gulf War of being a fifth column in Iraq, and collaborators with Western powers. Also, the Shi’a are not sure yet about long-term U.S. interests in Iraq. So the issue of Iraqi nationalism is one to look for because if it is going to have anti-American tones, this would have an influence on American presence in Iraq. ME: Gerry, if you look at some of the other complex situations where IRC has been…ICG, sorry…IRC has been (Laughter)…right the first time, yes. GM: Yeah, one of those (Overlap) ME: ICG are the guys in Brussels, right…has been involved, is this question of the outsiders gradually becoming a focus of resentment and let’s get them out of there, let’s run this ourselves, they’ve stayed too long? Is that a problem? Is it a problem in Afghanistan? Has it become a problem elsewhere? GM: Well, nobody likes handouts and I think we’re starting to see evidence of that in terms of the very crude methods of food distribution that’s currently being done in Iraq, where things are being tossed off the back of trucks and there are young men elbowing for those commodities. This is a bit of a misdiagnosis in terms of what Iraq needs. And as I first said, it’s a very well endowed country, in fact, with the exception of the fact that it’s been somewhat strangled by the past decade of sanctions. In most of the countries we work there’s, in my particular guild of humanitarian aid, we’re evolving, a methodology, a way of thinking, our technology is really changing. Conventionally, we very much had a charitable notion of who is harmed by war and how can we help them. We’re getting more intelligent about it. Now we’re asking who is harmed by peace. Who is it that’s winning? Who is it that’s profiting? How are they undermining the peace dividend? How are they undermining what we’re trying to achieve? Now, wars are disastrous for the poor, but they’re truly opportunities for the rich. There are people who profit enormously. As you know, most wars in the world are not ideological confrontations, it’s not a fight for ethnic identity or political participation or democracy. They’re really more organized crime than war. It’s about control of mineral wealth, petroleum reserves, titanium, cobalt, diamonds, hardwoods. If you look at any war in the world right now you’ll find ultimately it’s driven by resource. It’s really greed not grievance. So we need to start to look at that. Now I mentioned the impressive opportunities for material support, what logistically is available to us as humanitarian aid providers and how thriving the markets are in Iraq where we can actually get the supplies we need. We need to start buying things locally. Now the UN Oil for Food program is a great example. The problem with that program is they were not allowed to buy wheat from Iraqi farmers or any commodities. It had to be imported. So everything that was bought under the multi-billion dollar food program was not purchased locally. Now Iraq is the most fertile country in the Middle East. It is the fertile crescent. It is copiously irrigated by two major rivers. At this moment Iraq is a net exporter of produce, of dates. And if you’ve ever seen some of the photographs on television you’ll see the markets do have food, fresh food as well. So what’s not needed is massive imports of food from the outside. In fact the effect of that, as we’ve learned in Afghanistan, in Somalia, and many other famines around the world, is large importation of foreign produce tends to drive prices down for local farmers, so they stop growing. It becomes a disincentive. They leave their farmlands, or they convert their croplands to some other more prosperous cash crop, which in Afghanistan right now is ... ME: Is heroin, yeah. GM:…opium, yeah. So we really need to look at restorations of livelihoods, putting people…more Iraqis earn a wage from farming than through the petroleum industry. Agriculture is really going to be the promise for recovery and rehabilitation of Iraq. We need to concentrate on improved farming techniques, irrigation techniques, fertilizers, seeds, animal disease controls. We need to help restore the agricultural sector. ME: All things that the Department of Defense is expert in. (Laughter) Sorry, that was a cheap shot. GM: No, a good shot really. ME: Time to open this up here. Gentlemen in the back, please identify who you are and your organization, if you could. Audience: A question to all the panelists, particularly Professor Nakash. You talk about the theory of revenge, retribution. I’m interested in the justice issue, amnesty, war crimes, (Inaudible) commissions, what should be said now at the forestall of possible disaster, in ten to one, or hundred to one ratios? YN: What should be said or what should be done? Audience: What action should the US be taking now, announcements should be done now in terms of amnesty, possible war crimes issues—commissions, to set the stage for the next six months and after that? YN: Well, I read in newspapers that a lot has been done in the pre-war period by Iraqis working with the State Department. So there is a certain thinking already in place for the post-war period. What I think is important though at this point is to decide how deep de-Ba’athification should be. Some people speak about purging. How many Baathists should the U.S. attempt to purge? Should it focus only on the top echelon of the Baath or should de-Baathification go deeper? All these things have to be clarified. I am not sure when it would be the right time to declare it. I suspect that once the fighting is over that’s the right time. Remember, de-Baathification is a complicated issue. It has to be done by U.S. officials in cooperation with Iraqis. Again, we hear about short lists and long lists and someone has to decide. I’m not going to give you the answer how deep you want to go with that process. But the deeper the process is, the longer America is going to be committed to staying in Iraq. ME: I very much want to bring Bill in. You were in southern Iraq in 1991 when a sort of people’s justice took place, and it was pretty horrible, right? WN: It was horrible. I think the United States has to take two approaches on the issue of transitional justice. I think we have established the fact that we have a list and I would just advocate that that list be as short as necessary to make us feel better. Okay? And I mean that very seriously. In other words, it should be a fairly short list of folks that we want to impose from the outside that are taken out, face trial, face justice, et cetera, et cetera. And then we have to establish the fact that all other takeouts will be done in a due process manner. That is far more an Iraqi decision than it is an international community decision. What happens though, and it happened in Iraq in ’91, it happened in Bosnia in ‘95, ‘96, and it is still happening in Kosovo, is the accusation of criminality becomes a political act as much as it is for any past behavior, so what you believe in can become a crime. And it gets intertwined there. I think that’s where we just need to make sure that there is a reasonable degree of due process in following all that and not trying to get too involved. GM: And if I (Overlap) ME: Yeah, please. YN: There are two important issues here. I think that one of the things that Iraqi society would need after the war is healing. The deeper you go with purging, the farther you are from healing. That’s number one. Number two…and that’s a pragmatic thing. If you look at Russia, the former Soviet Union, some of the leading politicians today are ex-KGB officers. So I’m putting it to you that it may very well be that in a new Iraq some people who have been affiliated with the regime may still play a role in the new country. That’s very likely. ME: Yes, the lady in the front here? ME: Can you say who you are? And speak up. Yes? Audience: May I ask the professor, what role do you see of dissidents who’ve lived abroad, some of whom are already back? How is it best to incorporate them and not have them disrupt— YN: The issue of Iraqis in exile is a complicated one. I suspect that a majority of those who live in Western countries are going to stay there, whether it is in England or in the United States. But a lot of those who are in Iran and in Jordan and maybe in Syria would probably go back. Now, I have said all along that you have an excellent group of dissidents, intellectuals, businessmen. They have a role to play in the reconstruction of Iraq after the war is over. ME: Right, right. Hakim who is the Shiite— YN: The Shiite Ayatollah, and it would not be a wise thing to leave him out. Having said that, I think that we have…when we talk about the exiles we have to look at a period which is longer than a year. Maybe the initial Iraqi civilian authority would include a proportionally high number of exiles. In the long run the number of exiles in Iraqi governments will probably be smaller than in the short term. ME: That’s very interesting. Very interesting point. I spent a couple of weeks in London earlier in the year talking to lots of the Iraq exiles, representatives, leaders, whatever you call them. And one…two phrases stuck with me while I was talking with people. One from an old UN diplomat, who after talking to me over a long and delightful morning about what was going to happen in Iraq, just kind of paused and said, The idea that we are going to ride into Baghdad on the top of an American tank and say “democracy now” is so absurd that it makes me ill whenever any of us comes close to saying it. I thought that was wonderful. Second was from a younger man who said…and I’d be interested in any of you responding to this. He said, ’Don’t forget, all of the external political parties combined have less authority in Iraq than one significant tribal leader.” And I thought that was an interesting observation. Do you disagree? YN: I think that the best way is for the U.S. to build bridges between those Iraqis outside and those inside the country. The best way to build those bridges is not by bringing Iraqis under the banner of the INC or the banner of SCIRI, the Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution, but to bring them simply as Iraqis. All the dissidents who would come to Iraq and would eventually stay in Iraq after a year or two, would have to reconstitute themselves. They would have to become part of the new political system in Iraq. ME: Let’s get some more questions. Oh gosh, Lords, the gentleman here, yeah? Audience: It’s a comment and a question, mainly to the last question and your throw-away remark earlier about defense. The D of D and State have a strong opinion of what should happen on...and they have a strong view...Chalabi. I don’t know how many people are aware but Chalabi was involved in a—financial institution...Bank. And I think it goes back to…so it goes..out of character. Then this morning on CNN you see him there in Iraq, someone’s— (Overlapping Voices) Unknown: No, in Nasiriyah (Overlap) Unknown: In the South. In the South (Overlap) ME: Nasiriyah, yeah. Audience: The South, okay. Well, do you think those aspects—in the North...so their institute and so forth...of Iraq. And with that background, what they think—therefore—I would like your comment. (Laughter) ME: Well, actually, I mean, I wonder if there’s anyone in the audience who would like to make a case for the INC. The gentleman over there, yeah. Yeah, please. Unknown: Bob... not a statement about it, but there has never been in any large exile community a large movement of people backing—hostilities. Everyone talks about going back, but when it comes down to it, it’s their children who make the decision. ME: And their children are in Kensington and (Laughter) I’ve met those children incidentally. Any other…yes, the gentleman there, yeah? Audience: Director Martone, I’m very curious whether you have any opinion on the rest of the population going forward on the use of depleted uranium and the weaponry you’ve been using, whether there have been any epidemiological studies as to the effect of depleted uranium... on the population? GM: Okay. Thanks. Can I have multiple choice? (Laughter) Audience: (Inaudible) GM: Yeah, yeah. Now, I don’t know a lot about it, and I know that there’s various opinions about whether depleted uranium…its persistent threat to civilian populations. Obviously there’s a political corruption of any statistics or data that comes out, according to who is quoting it, or there’s a military source over a civilian source. So I don’t know a lot about it. That’s not the only types of munitions obviously in Iraq that will be a threat. They’ll be enormous amounts of unexploded ordinance, just from this bombing. There still is leftover from 1991. And Iraq’s other internal wars and its international war with Iran. So it’s really…some of you may…well, you probably don’t see this. But there are maps released by the Humanitarian Operation Center in Kuwait of areas that are mined and known routes to be of danger, and it’s just striking how much of the most densely populated centers of Iraq are in fact the places of the greatest congestion of ordinance. ME: Bill, you wanted to say something? WN: I just wanted to comment. The science of depleted uranium has been politicized. But soldiers…well, first of all if you’re a soldier inside an M1 tank and you are surrounded by depleted uranium in the body of the tank and in the ammunition there, and you close the hatch on the tank and you’re sealed inside with this DU all around you, you have less…you are exposed to less radiation than if you’re standing in the sun. But again, so I would just argue that the science is politicized but there is also some good evidence that there is less impact. The unexploded ordinance, not so much from cluster bombs but from some artillery that’s been used, will be an issue, but not near the rates that we’ve experienced before because the precision munitions that are being used are largely one big explosion. Most of them are single warhead type devices. ME: Interesting. Yeah, the gentleman there. Audience: I live in Greenwich Village and it’s... totally democratic and somehow you seem to have enormous factions within our little community. (Laughter) Audience: People talk about the Shi’as, the Kurds, the Sunnis, are they different from people in Greenwich Village? (Laughter) ME: If we ran a competition, the question of the year (Overlap/Laughter)…which we should probably. That would so far be a leading contender. So what’s the…are they different from Greenwich Village? YN: Probably not, but anything I would say would just spoil the question, so…(Laughter) ME: Let’s just pursue it a little bit. Again, when I was talking with all the exiles in London and elsewhere in Europe earlier in the year, one of the things that they all insisted on saying, I suppose because their political consultants had told them that they had to say it, but we are Iraqi. I mean, we’re not Shi’a, we’re not Sunni, we’re not Kurdish, by God we’re Iraqi. Now, true, false? YN: Well, I think one should not ignore the fact that there is, as I said, a very strong sense of Iraqiness. There is such a thing among the Arabs. We have to make here a distinction between Sunnis and Shi’as who are predominantly Arabs, and the Kurds, who are a distinct ethnic group. The Kurds have their own nationalist identity and aspirations. Among the Arabs, there is a sense of Iraqism. And in fact we still see it at play today. So this is true. You have to remember when we talk about Sunnis and Shi’a in Iraq, there is a large proportion of mixed marriages between the two sects. ME: Well, that’s like Greenwich Village too. (Laughter) YN: So that’s an advantage. The sectarian animosities, the tension between Sunnis and Shi’ites in modern Iraq is not cultural or ethnic. It is primarily political. It reflects the competition of the two groups over the right to rule and to define the meaning of nationalism in the country. That’s what at stake here. Audience: I think the really fascinating…one of the last books(?), that if I were vicelord, which they wouldn’t settle for anything less than Lord but... if I were vicelord, I still wouldn’t know how to put together a government based on what (Inaudible). You’ve got several Kurdish factions, so you can’t pick one of them to be speaker of the House of Representatives. You’ve got a lot of Shi’ite factions so you can’t pick one of them to be president, or whatever. So if you’re facing the practical ....General Garner or Admiral Garner. ME: Who wants to go? Bill, you go first? WN: Well, I mean, my first reaction is if you can’t figure it out, what chance does Jay Garner have? (Laughter) WN: But there’s more seriousness to that than my comment may seem at first light. This is chancy work and there is not a solution, okay? You cannot tell Jay Garner what to do, okay? And that’s what’s not understood. And now I’m going to take the first shot at this question, is this is not a precise science and to try to go in with a plan, and this is where you’re going, and okay, we’re going to do this and we’re going to put this mix in and this is our plan, you can’t write the equation. It’s too complicated. You know, I, young and naive and got sent to Bosnia with a whole bunch of tanks and a whole bunch of guns and boy, I mean, we had it. I read annex 1B of the old…1A I guess it was, of the old Dayton Peace Accords and boy, we had our checklist and we’re going down, get them old no-goodniks to do this stuff. (Laughter) And we’d been there about two weeks and said, This military stuff is easy, it’s all this other stuff you’ve got to do. And you start all the intertwining between civilian and military tasks. I’d like to say a few words on behalf of the United Nations. There is a certain advantage to the United Nations muddling through on these kind of things (Laughter). Because it’s a muddling through kind of exercise, and it is not clean. And no matter whether we do it Secretary Rumsfeld’s way or Secretary Powell’s way it will never be the way that the Iraqis want it. And the art here is to balance—and I mean, it is art—the security issues, balance the short-term organization of the diaspora organizations, while giving time for 18 million indigenous Iraqis to surface with their political views, which they have not had a chance to do in a long time. ME: Gerry, can you…No, go ahead. Argue with him, yeah, yeah. Audience: (Overlap)…we’ve just sent you off to see Garner, and you say, First I’ll have a plan and second have the UN muddle through. And the third thing…the next thing he does is send you back to the Council on Foreign Relations (Laughter) for that advice. He’s not going to give it to the UN to just muddle through. You know as well as I that isn’t going to happen. Because you’re going to make some moves there to put together political coalitions based on some principles or whatever. And maybe the UN will come in at some point. It probably should. But to think that the UN is going to step into this situation in the next weeks or months, and begin muddling through, it doesn’t sound terribly— WN: Okay. And…and ... Audience:…or artful to me. WN: Right. I understand. I would say to you that what we’ve got to do now, not getting to play a Mulligan on this exercise (Laughter), what we’ve got to do now is not…is to bring the stability and the basic services to the Iraqi people and try to have a sense of calmness come to the country, which is going to be hard enough, oh, by the way, to get the water running, to get the trains running, and all those type of things, and then start gathering these people and take the time for the deliberations, okay? That’s why I say that Garner doesn’t want a political plan…whether he knows it or not, he doesn’t want a political plan right now, and he wants all this stuff to bubble. And let me get off the hot chair. ME: But Gerry, can I…is the UN…I’ve slightly thought in the last ten days that this whole UN debate was a bit of a red herring and that I didn’t want to get interested in it and I didn’t want to brag about it, because it seemed to me that in fact the positions that various people were adopting were actually pretty close to each other. And I think that’s what Bush and Blair essentially said today. But in your experience, how significant, how important is it to have a UN stamp, to have the UN agencies in there early on? GM: It’s a nonstarter to do anything otherwise. I can’t speak for the UN. I work for non-governmental organizations. But from my perspective, it’s absolutely critical. It’s just not a conversation that can be had otherwise. I think all the neighboring countries support that position. I think in terms of this not appearing to be a conquest, or a unilateral takeover of Iraq, it’s really crucial that it be multilateral. I think the other thing, Les, just to build on your question, is we’ve too prematurely categorized Iraq as an ethnic problem. So we’re talking about ethnicity of its leaders and its makeup and I think that’s a little premature. I’m a bit mystified and I’m just now learning a lot about Iraq, as everyone is. But it really is a labyrinth of class, ideological, historical, cultural, religious bifurcations. It just boggles your mind. It just doesn’t neatly fit into categories that we can quickly understand. And that’s understandable if you consider historically. I mean, the country of Iraq is a geopolitical fiction. It was drawn in Versailles in 1919 by the British and French. It’s not a natural entity in itself. So it is an awkward fit. And the next step of presuming that the remedy is multi-party democracy I think is again perhaps premature. ME: Yitzhak, you want to come in? YN: Are you [audience] willing to step into Garner’s shoes for a minute for the sake of the debate? And I guess my question to you: you’re there on the ground, what are your goals in Iraq? What is President Bush telling you? Is he telling you: I want you to wrap up the whole thing in six months, a year’s time, or I want you to really do a thorough job? Are you trying to achieve a full-fledged democracy? Or are you willing to accept a political system that would not be fully democratic, maybe even a little bit hostile toward the United States? What can we learn from the British experience in Iraq? It is Britain that created Iraq as a country ruled by a Sunni minority elite. It is Britain who brought a ruling elite from outside Iraq to rule Iraq. King Faisal, and the Sharifians around him—they were not Iraqis. They came from Arabia via Syria to Iraq. The question is whether you, as Jay Garner, are willing to go the extra mile and try to understand the local people, to get to know them and also to work with them? Are you willing to do that? Do you have the time? Do you have a mandate from your president to do that? ME: I’d just like to say one thing on the British experience in Iraq (Laughter), if I may. As I think one says in politically correct terms these days, my birth country. My father-in-law, who was an RAF officer, served in Iraq for five years in the late ’20s and early ’30s, he had splendid adventures in the service of the British empire, throughout the world, from Central Africa to the South China Sea and had a wonderful, glittering career. He always looked back on his five years spent in Iraq as the most enjoyable bit of soldiering that he ever did in his life. This was partly because he got to fly very exciting biplanes from Baghdad up to the Kurds, who were then bombed. (Laughter) Although my father-in-law always pointed out that they would fly up on a Tuesday and drop leaflets down saying, We’re going to come and bomb you tomorrow. (Laughter) The thing is I always suspected the leaflets were written in English (Laughter), which ... But the real reason that he enjoyed his time in Iraq so much was because he learnt the noble art of pig sticking there, which he always…pig sticking is kind of like playing polo but you’re chasing a pig, rather than trying to hit a ball—a wild pig. And he always said that pig sticking was the most manly and challenging of all horse sports. (Laughter) And spent an exciting five years doing it. Yes? No, gentleman here, that’s been trying to get in for ages. Audience: This question is for Bill Nash. It goes back to the discussion, I think there was a reference to a tone of due process, in the post-war period. In that context, is there a moral or legal difference between targeting a head of state in his bunker with a bomb or sending an assassin with a gun to his office? WN: You didn’t tell me I’d get these questions ME: That’s a good question, I’d say. WN: The targeting of a military leader I believe is a legitimate technique, a legitimate act. And it has precedence over history on a number of occasions. For all targeting of military objectives, it is necessary to evaluate whether or not the damage in excess of the death or destruction of the military objective would be so spread that the cost to noncombatants, noncombatant structures, would be in excess of the gain in destroying the military objective. Therefore, the decision that was made last night, that the belief that they could kill the leader of the Iraqi military and his principle deputies could be argued to be a legitimate military target and that the associated extra damage to civilian, noncombatant people and structures would not outweigh the gain in that. If you could do that with an assassin on a military target it would seem that the opportunity for collateral damage would be less. (Laughter) ME: Very interesting. Yeah, the gentleman here. Audience: For 45 years every political faction contending for power in Iraq has been a secular, nationalist and fundamentally suspicious of America perspective, whether they were competing for power or in power. And my question is was this largely just playing to a political relevant class of one percent of the population, or the very consistency of this kind of politics, could that reflect a larger sense within the population at large, that factions were trying to muster political support among—? And if it’s the latter, how long do you think the US can on its own continue as the kind of determining factor in Iraqi politics, or had it better very quickly, as Bill was seeming to imply, get in Egyptian troops or Jordanians or others to take some of the heat off of what would very quickly become a resumption of a fundamentally suspicious of America streak in the Iraqi population? ME: Yitzhak. YN: I think that the issue of suspicion is already there. It’s already part of the equation. And America has no choice but to work with this reality. That’s my sense. You know, as a historian of modern Iraq I always go back to the British experience. When Britain occupied Iraq in 1917 it was feared but respected. Now, right now, the situation is that among certain constituencies in Iraq, and more so in the Arab world, America is being feared and hated. In order to win the peace in Iraq the U.S. would also need to win the hearts of Iraqis. There is a potential for a breakthrough here but there are so many risks. I’ll give you one example that is very close to my mind as someone who has worked on Shiite Islam. The City of Najaf for many years has been the center of Shi’a scholarship. And we hear talks recently about the prospects for the revival of Shiism in Najaf, which is an excellent thing in itself because it may generate healthy competition between Najaf and Qum in Iran for the leadership of the Shiite world. But if the U.S. is going into Iraq, and bluntly tries to undermine the position of certain senior clerics, and at the same time reinforce the position of less senior clerics, or if you try to interfere in the working of the Shiite religious circles, or use Iraqi Shiism to undermine Iranian Shiism, you’re going to acquire enemies in no time, not only in Iraq but also in Iran and in the Arab world. So the question is how you play your cards. There is a potential for success in Iraq. It all depends on how the United States is going to play its cards. ME: I want to put on the table something that often seems to me to not come up when we have sessions on Iraq, even though at real bars you hear people talking about it a lot. And that’s oil. Gerry, what is the right way to handle a resource like oil in a situation like this? GM: Again, you keep asking me questions that are beyond my scope. But I’ll venture I guess, and I think it builds on Jeff’s question and your previous question as well, Michael, about the multilateral approach. Iraqis are very smart. I don’t think we can fool them either way about what the intentions are. There is a presumption I think among most Iraqis of what this war is really about. And I think certainly after Desert Storm and then a lot of false promises to ethnic minorities to uprise against Saddam Hussein in the early ‘90s, then 12 years of crippling sanctions against the country, to now suddenly say we will risk our young men and women to liberate you, is a bit inconsistent. And understandably the average Iraqi will be somewhat suspect of that. So I think the true measure of the US’s interest in this very robust engagement with Iraq will really be in the long term whether it is in fact exploitation of their natural resources and the opportunity for American corporations to prosper, or is it truly a humanitarian gesture and a political gesture and one that’s striving for stability in the Middle East. ME: Right. Good. WN: Could I ... ME: Yeah, come on in? WN: The easy part of the oil issue of course is the transparency of the revenues and then the spending of those revenues for the betterment of Iraq. The hard part I think is the discussions and decisions on production levels and how that impacts Iraq vis-a-vis other producers. I just keep having this vision of Jay Garner going to the OPEC meeting. (Laughter) ME: Well, let’s go—eventually. (Laughter) Right. YN: OPEC is better than the Arab League. WN: Yeah. (Laughter) ME: That I’d pay for. That I’d pay to see. Yes. YN: Or the conference of Islamic States. ME: That’s right. (Laughter) WN: Very good, yeah. The poor guy was retired, doing real well, and now he’s famous anyway. That’s where you have to have Iraqi advice and consent for the issues associated with just taking production level, investment and building capacity, et cetera, et cetera. Because if you don’t, whatever decision you make, you have stolen Iraqi…you’ve either stolen the present or you’ve stolen the future by your decisions that you make (Overlap). YN: Yeah, exactly. One point about the oil. Traditionally, although the oil wells are mainly in the North and in the South, the government did not invest enough in those areas. One way to cope with the accusation that the U.S. is In Iraq simply in order to exploit the oil is to make sure from the very beginning that there is proper investment of resources in the North and in the South. That’s very important to winning the heart of Kurds and Shiites. ME: I think the issues of transparency and the right way in which benefits are dispersed from the oil, and the proper way in which contracts are handed out frankly, are critically important. I wish I thought that there was really hard work being done in terms of creating an institutional structure which would both satisfy the legitimate needs and interests of Iraqis, but also prove to a skeptical region that this was not about either capturing a local resource asset, benefiting American and British companies, or driving down the price of oil and wrecking OPEC. It seems to me that it is not impossible to set up the institutional structures which insure transparency and would satisfy the outside world and which meet the needs of Iraqis. But I wish I thought…I wish I could see by now that more had been done to set up such institutions and put them in place. A few more questions. Yeah, the gentleman right there. Audience:…there’s been some indication that the UN would be well advised to be involved in this. But we’re all aware that—that happening is less invited French permanent position on the Security Council. And the administration knows full well that the first thing they’re going to do is re-take their oil field, like before. So isn’t this an ideal time to—withdraw France from the Security Council…in favor of India or—? And if this seems like a laughable proposition bear in mind that the existing—China on the Security Council is not the original—If there’s any thoughts about how we might do this (Overlap). ME: I don’t think it’ll happen. Though I know lots of people who would cheer if it did. Not me actually but some would, I’m sure. The gentleman…have you had a question already? Audience: No. ME: Oh, okay. Sorry. You look suspiciously familiar, right. (Laughter) ME: Sorry. Audience: It’s so often described…Iraq is often described a secular state. And my question really is has that really been a lid that’s been put on by the current regime or past government? And what are the prospects of those religions resurfacing really as a political force in Iraq? I ask that question— ME: Good question. Audience:…particularly with just I think yesterday the local sheik in Basra being asked to take some civilian authority in the town... harbor—as religion. ME: We were talking about this in the room. Yitzhak, have a go. YN: We were talking exactly about this question. I’d like to give you a very short background about some of the differences between Iraqi Shiism and Iranian Shiism. Although Shiism has been tied to Iraq from early Islamic history, and some of the formative events of Shiite Islam took place in Iraq, Shiites were not always a majority in Iraq. In fact, Shiites became a majority only during the 19th century when the bulk of Iraq’s Arab nomadic tribes settled down and took up agriculture, and subsequently converted to Shiism. If you compare the nature of Iraqi and Iranian Shi’ism, and their rituals of lament in particular, you would see that Iraqi Shiism is much more sober and down-to-earth than Iranian Shiism. In terms of degrees of religiosity, if we can talk about religiosity, yes, Iraqi Shiism is more secular. If you look at the history of the last 24 years, since the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the large majority of Iraqi Shiites have not been swayed by the revolution. They haven’t adopted the notion of the rule of the jurist as developed by Khomeini. But this isn’t to say that there aren’t strong Islamic constituencies in Iraq. It is very possible that in a post-Hussein Iraq we will see a degree of religious revivalism in Iraq. I would put it to you that that’s not only a reaction to the past and to the fact that they were under the lid, that’s also a reflection of the current reality where more and more people in the Middle East are comfortable expressing their political identity in religious terms rather than secular terms. But there is another point we need to remember. The Shiites of Iraq are not a homogenous group. You have very large secular constituencies, the intelligentsia, the middle class. Shiites constitute the majority within those groups. So yes, we would see religious revivalism. But it might be offset by the secular segments within Shiite society. ME: Now, everyone on this side of the room has suffered from the fact that I’ve had my back to them. And I’m sure lots of them have been trying to get my attention. I’ve only got time for one more question. So the lady there, yeah? YN: De-Baathification they call it. Unknown:…anyway, and what the effect—the reaction I’ve... YN: It’s an excellent question. And I guess that not only Garner but Garner’s boss has to figure out what are U.S. long-term goals. Syria is irritated already. There is no doubt about it, regardless of the talk about de-Baathification. But you know what, no matter how deep de-Baathification is going to be in Iraq, Syria would stay what it is for some time to come... you know, the fact that the Soviet Union collapsed didn’t mean that Castro changed his way or that China became less communist in some of its inclinations. So I would say that a new Iraq will increase Syria’s nervousness, but probably no more than that. But again, I suspect that de-Baathification in Iraq is not going to be as deep as some people advocate. That’s my sense. I may be wrong but that’s my sense. ME: Any last words on anything from Bill or Gerry? WN: The transition to the post-war stability issue I think is something that we’ve really got to watch and stay involved in. The whole question we started with is on how we do that. I would just caution that as you build the stability in these various places, maybe the advice we ought to give Jay Garner is don’t try to do a national solution before you do a lot of local solutions and build from the ground up. But I think there is a great potential there. I would just say to you that we would be less well served…I mean, Jay Garner works for Tommy Franks, so the decision on Rumsfeld or Powell is an answered question, okay? Garner works for Franks. We do not want to build an Iraq that has a military leader. (Applause) ME: Gerry, last word? GM: No. Just kudos to that point though. I very much agree with him. ME: They’ve been a fantastic trio we’ve had up here. (Applause) Gerry Martone, Yitzhak Nakash, Bill Nash, you have all been great too. Have a pleasant evening. Come back next time.

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Blood. 2008;111:5403–5410 PII: S0037-1963(09)00059-6 doi: 10.1053/j.seminhematol.2009.03.004

Forgot your password? You are viewing shamikayc's journal Three Nick Swisher, Andre Ethier, Josh Hamilton, Hamilton, Matt Kemp, Carl Crawford, Dodgers, Zack Greinke, Cole Hamels, Michael Bourn Legacy, Rangers, the Dodgers, Edwin Jackson, Colby Lewis, Jose Reyes, Anibal Sanchez, Miguel Montero, Kyle Lohse Nypost.com WASHINGTON -- The US economy slowed its pace of expansion in the first three months of the year compared to the prior quarter, as government spending fell and a buildup in inventories eased, data revealed Friday. Gross domestic product (GDP), the broadest measure of all the goods and services produced in an economy, grew at an inflation-adjusted annual rate of 2.2 percent in the first quarter of 2012, the Commerce Department said. It was the agency's first reading of growth for the quarter. The figure came in below expectations. Economists surveyed by Dow Jones had forecast first-quarter GDP would increase at a 2.6 percent rate. In the final three months of 2011, the economy grew at a three percent-residential fixed investment fell by 2.1 percent during the first quarter, compared to 5.2 percent gain in the prior period. Government spending declined in the first quarter, falling by three percent. That comes after a 4.2 percent drop in public expenditures in the fourth quarter of 2012. In a bright spot in the report, consumers continued to spend at a healthy pace. Personal consumption expenditures rose 2.9 percent during the quarter -- the best gain since the fourth quarter of 2010. However, shoppers faced higher costs as price index for personal consumption expenditures rose 2.4 percent last quarter compared to a 1.2 percent gain in the prior period. Similarly, the price index for gross domestic purchases, which measures prices paid by US residents, also rose 2.4 percent for the quarter. US stock-index futures trimmed slight gains after the report. government spending, Commerce Department, Dow Jones, inventories, fixed investment, economy, domestic product, inventory investment Mets starter Mike Pelfrey said he is “99 percent” certain he will need to have season-ending Tommy John surgery. The right-handed pitcher had an MRI exam that revealed a partial tear of the ulnar collateral ligament in his right (pitching) elbow. He will fly to Birmingham, Ala., to consult with Dr. James Andrews, and is expected to undergo surgery. “I’ll go down and see Dr. Andrews personally and we’ll go from there. But there’s a 99 percent chance it’s going to happen,’’ said Pelfrey. “Obviously it’s frustrating. I’ve never been hurt. It’s only been three days and I don’t know what I’m doing with myself.’’ MIKE PELFREYStellar season likely over. Pelfrey’s greatest qualities have been his durable nature and stature as a workhorse. But now, in the midst of a great start to the season, he faces the likelihood he will be shelved for the rest of the campaign. “The prognosis was not very good,’’ manager Terry Collins said. “Right now [he’s] pitching as good as I’ve seen him pitch in person. To have his sinker back, to have command of his curveball again, everything was working and to have this happen is a true shame not only for him but for us.’’ Pelfrey’s 2.29 ERA is the best in the Mets’ rotation, and his bounce-back performance from a disappointing 2011 season is a huge reason the Amazin’s are 11-8 after yesterday’s 3-2 win over the Marlins. Pelfrey was presented the option of an injection of platelet-rich plasma (PRP), but when faced with its slim chance of success and a serious threat of injury to his shoulder, opted against it. “The doctor said I have a tear,” Pelfrey said. “He brought up my options, and they brought up the PRP, which is the injection, and put it at a 10 to 20 percent chance it works. So there was an 80 percent chance I was still going to have surgery. I thought that was best case for me and we just go ahead and do it. “It was explained ... I could alter my mechanics and end up hurting my shoulder. My shoulder feels great, and that’s the last thing I want. All the statistics, 94 percent you can fix the elbow but when you get to the shoulder it’s a gray area. I think that would be the last thing that I want.’’ Pelfrey is earning $5.6875 million this season, and though he isn’t set to hit free-agency until after 2013, he’s arbitration-eligible one more time. It remains to be seen whether the Mets choose to non-tender him in December, rather than pay him a salary sure to be at least in that same vicinity again. Righty Chris Schwinden, 25, will start tonight at Colorado. He was 0-2 with a 4.71 ERA with the Mets last year, but is 2-2 with a 2.05 ERA in four starts for Triple-A Buffalo this year. To make room for Schwinden, the team optioned lefty Robert Carson to Double-A Binghamton. [email protected] Mets starter Mike Pelfrey, James Andrews, ulnar collateral ligament, Tommy John, manager Terry Collins, PRP BOSTON — Tim Thomas had every reason to be confident heading into overtime of Game 7 in Boston's first-round playoff series against the Washington Capitals. After all, the Bruins won three seventh games in last year's run to the Stanley Cup title. "I'm probably in shock," Thomas said Wednesday night after Joel Ward beat him at 2:57 of overtime to lead the Capitals to a 2-1 victory over Boston and give Washington a spot in the Eastern Conference semifinals. "I really believed that we were going to win. "I really had a deep feeling that this wasn't the end of the road for us, that this wasn't going to be the last game of the season." Thomas made 26 saves for Boston, which was hoping to become the first team to repeat as Stanley Cup champions since the Detroit Red Wings in 1997-98. Tyler Seguin scored the Bruins' goal as." It was the first time in NHL history that a playoff series had seven games determined by one goal. Four of the games went to overtime, and two others were decided with less than two minutes left in regulation. "It was very close," Boston captain Zdeno Chara said. "We shouldn't be disappointed in what we did this season. We just came up short." Hendricks scored midway through the first period, and Seguin tied it in the second. It stayed that way through the postseason. Stanley Cup, Boston, Boston, Boston, Tim Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Braden Holtby, Bruins, Capitals, Washington, Washington, Capitals, Stanley Cup finals, Eastern Conference, Stanley Cup, Joel Ward, postseason series, postseason series, the Bruins, the Bruins, playoff series, playoff series, Tyler Seguin, Seguin, Eastern Conference, Detroit Red Wings All horses appear in post position order FIRST-5 1/2f; $50,000; mdn spcl wt; 2YO PN Horse, Wt. 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[email protected] The Devils, Devils, the Devils, Zach Parise, Panthers, Pete DeBoer, DeBoer, DeBoer. The 41-year-old coach, who has the most wins in program history and was BIg East coach of the year this season, built St. John’s into a perennial NCAA tournament team. Kim Barnes Arico, the Red Storm, Big East Who.” AP ROUGH START: Bobby Valentine’s Red Sox are in last place as Yankees arrive in Boston today..” [email protected] Red Sox, Bobby Valentine, the Yankees, the Yankees, Kevin Youkilis, Ken Singleton, Kevin Millar, Derek Jeter, Yankees, Boston, MLB Network, Dustin Pedroia Reality trumps math in the Devils’ desperate world. Two more losses send them home for the summer, but they regard tonight as their rational hope for survival. “From now on, they’re all Game 7s,” said goalie Martin Brodeur, expected to return for his NHL record 174th straight start after he was yanked for the first time since 2006 in Game 3’s 4-3 loss. “We have to win [Game 4]. We don’t want to give them the chance to close out a series [at home],” Brodeur said. They have lost two straight to the Panthers after winning the series opener. Though a 2-1 series deficit is not insurmountable, the size of the task is illustrated by New Jersey’s 3-12 survival rate (20 percent) from that hole. The Devils fell behind in this series for the first time with Tuesday’s 4-3 loss in Newark, demoralizing because they blew the three-goal lead built in the opening 6:16 of play. Blown leads became the Devils’ bugaboo this season, and now they could sink them again. Unable to survive prosperity, they must conquer from desperation or fail to win a playoff round for the fifth straight season. The Devils lost 16 games they led this season, including another three-goal lead against the Panthers on Nov. 21. They opened Game 1 with its first three goals, and managed to hang on after Florida closed to within one. The Panthers took a three-goal lead in Game 2 and held on with an empty-netter after the Devils trimmed the deficit to one. Then came Game 3, the one that will define this year’s Devils unless they make this their fourth-ever comeback from a 1-2 hole. “You have to forget or you’ll remember all summer long,” Brodeur said. The Devils held a strategy meeting after practice yesterday to repair their suddenly ineffective penalty-killing. After setting the NHL record by stopping 89.6 percent of opponents’ power plays in the regular season, the Panthers have gone 6-for-10 in this series, scoring three Tuesday. The Devils did not seem to know what has gone wrong, aside from the juicy rebounds the Panthers have converted. “We watch tape and look for tendencies. The reality is that we’re giving up bad bounces. They’re having a little bit of puck luck,” coach Pete DeBoer said. “I don’t see a [reason] to change what we were doing the entire season.” DeBoer countered what was a mantra among his players, that they refrain from taking penalties. “We have to stay out of the box,’’ Ilva Kovalchuk said. “We all say it. We have to do it.” DeBoer said the Devils must not refrain from aggressive play because of the Panthers’ power play prowess. “We can’t let that paralyze us so that we walk around with pillows on our pads,” DeBoer said. “Our penalty-killing has allowed us to play with an edge and not kill us. “The answer is getting the penalty-killing back on track.” The requirement is winning tonight. the Devils online, Panthers, Martin Brodeur, Devils Jennifer Gould Keil GIMME SHELTER Getty Images Hiroki Kuroda. Hiroki Kuroda, Rachel Weisz, Prudential Douglas Elliman, East Village townhouse condo, Daniel Craig, Richard Mack, fireplace

believe this! At least twelve fanatical Michael Jackson worshippers have committed suicide since the King of Pop’s death. Did this happen when Elvis or John Lennon died? I am beyond troubled. Please — no one’s death should result in people ending their own lives! Even Jesse Jackson agrees. This is so ridiculous. It’s bad enough that my tv, internet and newspaper is bombarded with pictures and stories about MJ, but now this? Well, I was distraught wondering who was going to molest my 8 year old son now!? Thanks for talking me out of it Beet! What she said. Anybody who is so obsessed with Michael Jackson that they don’t think life is worth living with him dead? The world is probably better off without ‘em. wow, that’s harsh. Yeah, child molesters and the people who worship them are pretty low on my list of priorities. I guess I’m strange that way. There’s no proof that he was a child molester. Jessica there is no use making comments to JR like that. He/She clearly has no faith in our justice system. Right. So, OJ is innocent, too? Are you people really so stupid that you can’t distinguish between not being convicted and actually not having done anything wrong? Do you read anything besides celeb gossip sites? Using this as mind candy is fine. Using it to develop your weltanschauung is … pathetic. So you’re saying ALL MJ fans are child molesters? That’s a pretty big generalization isn’t it? I’m a huge Michael Jackson fan, and I’m a 23 year old female college student and I am not a child molester. And when I said “that was harsh” I was referring to your comments on the fans who are killing themselves over MJ. Yes suicide is extreme, but nobody “deserves” to die simply for liking someone. If anything these people clearly have issues that need to be worked out professionally. I think it’s unfortunate there are so many people like you who jump to conclusions and make assumptions without concrete proof. Anyways, I’d like to hear what you have to say after you see this video. MJ Child Molestation Extortion Scheme: HW, JR didn’t say all MJ fans are child molesters. He/She said “child molesters and the people who worship them are pretty low on my list of priorities”. you guys are all dumb .. you guys fight over shit like its a big deal well chill .. people love micheal jackson and theres reasons for that stop saying there molesters cause there not and you guys shouldnt be judging everyone has opinions about micheal jackson . i truely think he was awsome and yeah its dumb to kill yourself over a celeberty but , ppl loved him so i guess they took him dying a bigger deal then others did soo .. let them be that was there lifes NOT YOURSSS !!! init. shut up. if you dnt like him or dnt CARE dnt cum on dis website!!! dis message is to JR by da wayy! There was a woman on Yahoo answers that wanted to know how to tell her husband she wanted an abortion because Michael Jackson is dead. They have apparently been trying to have a baby for two years, she finally got pregnant then found out he died and doesn’t want to bring a child into the world without MJ. It’s craziness. I do not understand this AT ALL. Swear? It’s probably inappropriate but that made me laugh. I love people. They’re so insane. I hate people. They’re so insane. I promise. I wanted to kick her in the face, but then I thought it might be best if she aborted. She certainly doesn’t need to be responsible for another human being. That is too crazy!!! What, did she think MJ was going to live forever? Would she have killed her kid if he died in 10 years? Freak. Seriously? There are some stupid mofos in this world. This whole post and all comments crack me up. SERIOUSLY! Personally, I liked Michael’s music and all but if you’re crazy enough to kill yourself over the guy dying… well, I’m ok with that. Feel free to off yourself, nutballs. I know people killed themselves when Lennon died.. at least two. i can honestly understand this. MJ is such a force and to take that away from people who live their lives around him as if he is the only thing that matters is devestating. i dont even know that much about MJ or his music until he died, and i cry whenever i see a pic of him now. so i understand people killing themselves. You may need help. Lennon? I’ve heard they did. Elvis? don’t know, but most likely. Some people are extremely devoted and fanatical about personalities. Borderline crazy you could say. Uh, why? I agree, these people who offed themselves probably had more problems than what was disclosed. Who wants to bet they probably were already suicidal or mentally unstable before MJ decided he really needed an IV injection to Sleep . RIP, now you won’t be tired anymore. Im not suprised by this at all. There were fans tenting outside the front gates to his home earlier in the day before he died. That’s crazy. When Michael first died I wondered to myself ,will anybody commit suicide over his death?……No I don’t think so. I guess I was wrong. JR You are so right. I would encourage anyone who was so obsessed with him that they are even thinking about suicide, please do the world a favor and DO IT!!!!! Jesse Jackson meant to say, “This is senseless unless you’re Joe Jackson; in which case… WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!?! You already know you’re not getting anything!” You guys are pathetic morons and ignorants. You worship your gods, your presidents, your history, your ancestors, but have no respect for life. People admire him and respected him for what he did. Y’all think he molested children like he did your little brother or your dad when he was little. I think that was all BS, all those little brats and their parents did it fir the $$$. No. You Sir are the MORON. I agree. With Roberto And I agree. With MymaJane. MJ was a very messed up human being, he most likely touched those children inappropriately. In fact, the first child was able to identify marks on MJ’s genitalia and buttocks. Now, either MJ felt it was “okay” to be nude in front of small children OR he molested him. And yeah, as a mom I just imagine if that were MY child and it infuriates me more. He was a great musician, but that doesn’t make him a great human being. I don’t care how much money he donated, or what good works he did. He was still a child molester. And you are SO sure because of all the solid evidence, right? Yeah okay. People are always so intent on bringing people (especially celebrities) down. Forget about all the good things he’s done for terminally ill children and the millions he’s given to charity, he MUST be child molester because two children (coming from a family with sketchy backgrounds) claimed he molested them. Evan Chandler is the father of the first accuser and there was a recording found of him speaking maliciously of Michael Jackson and his intentions to “bring him down”. And in recent years (2006 I believe), Jordan Chandler (the accuser, 26 years old, living in a luxury apartment from the settlement that MJ’s INSURANCE insisted upon despite MJ’s refusal) sued his stepfather Evan Chandler for abuse (specifically choking him, beating him with a heavy weights, etc.). The Arvizo family, the second family to accuse, are even sketchier and you can read all about them here: under “The Arvizo Family”. The family was caught shoplifting at a JC Penney, and then the mother claimed she was sexually harrassed and then they eventually settled out of court for a good amount of money. The father pleaded no contest to spousal abuse and child cruelty charges. He also states that his children were rehearsed by their mother to say things she wanted them to say on a regular basis. But you know what? There must be hidden evidence somewhere, right? The huge amount of detectives and investigators who were assigned to each case was just probably slacking off, despite interviewing over 200 people (none of whom said any inappropriate conduct occurred) and having over 70 investigators search MJ’s residences and coming up with nothing. Wow, look at you getting so heated up. And I suppose the info you got the the accusers families is accurate? Give me a break. I’m so over this. He was just a human being. Yes, he heavily influenced the music world, helped ill children and gave huge amounts of money to charities. But guess what? People need to live their own lives. Go ahead and admire a celebrity, but don’t let it overtake your own identity. He ate, shit, and slept just like all of us. He wasn’t a god. He was human, and boy did he have his issues. The truth is, we don’t really know what happened behind those closed doors. Btw, Wikepedia really shouldn’t be used as an accurate source of information. Anybody is allowed to contribute “information”. now where in my statements do you see me say that MJ is god? lol how did i let MJ take over my identity? funny. i’m not getting heated up because i’m crazy about MJ which isn’t the case, i’m getting heated up because people are jumping to conclusions without getting to know facts first. if you happen to be the only person in a house with a person who falls over dead from poisoning, people will jump to conclusions that you poisoned that person. do you think that’s fair? and YES, wikipedia isn’t the best source but google the families and you’ll get information on them from pretty reliable sources. “The truth is, we don’t really know what happened behind those closed doors.” – That’s EXACTLY my point. I can’t say he’s innocent or not but I think statements made by Lucky Lou (and other similar comments) is really unfair to him. Innocent until proven guilty, and he was never proven guilty. Why is Roberto a moron? I support everything he said. Think about it, they throw all these wild allegations of molestation at MJ and then suddenly when money is brought in, it shuts them up… C’mon. I can’t believe anyone can be that stupid to think he actually did it. There’s even a tape recorder of Evan Chandler admitting he wanted to ruin MJ’s career. As a parent you would want the criminal to go to jail and to have justice, but money wouldnt even be considered. And Jordan was on drugs when he saidd he was molested. Let’s all believe everything drugged people say! Wow, I honestly can’t believe people who NEVER EVER met the man, can say for sure that he molested children. I mean, what the heck is wrong with you people? How can you accuse someone who is a stranger to you of a disguising act like child molestation? I swear you guys are not from God. You must worship Satan or something because people of God don’t speak the way you do. Wow, you should be ashamed of yourselves (specially the one who says she is a mother). Completely revolting and heartbreaking! I can’t imagine how it must have been for Michael to live in a world where he was persecuted every single day by people who knew nothing about him? My heart breaks for all the pain we put him through, yet I feel happy knowing that you people can’t hurt him anymore. The world is cruel Michael, but thank God you don’t have to deal with it anymore. The ones who love you will pray for your children so they don’t have to go through the hurt you went through. God bless you. Amen. So, what are you saying here? Michael Jackson was better than God, all of our presidents, our history and our ancestors? I know, right? God forbid I think higher of Abraham Lincoln or Mother Theresa. Personally, I will always hold my Grandma in higher regard than Michael Jackson. She raised 5 kids and never once dangled a single one of them from a balcony… Your grandma sounds like she was a very strong woman…and had enough sense not to put her children in mortal danger! Raising 5 children is a harrowing feet all of it’s own :-) I cannot believe this WTF?! Do these morons think that, in their place, MJ would have done the same thing for them? And the Yahoo Answers woman–OMG. People; you can’t live with em, can’t shoot em–just have to laugh at em. Jesus H. Suicidality often increases when a major figure dies, just think about Kurt Cobain. Kurt Cobain killed himself (debatable), so it is a different situation and therefore his death may have served as direct motivation for others to copy him. Suicidality includes death, attempts and ideation. There have been some studies which show that suicidal ideation rates increase dramatically when a celebrity dies, though completed suicides may not increase as much as you would think. Michale Jackson’s death might spur more research into the area. This is called natural selection. Read your Darwin. My thoughts exactly. This news is coming from the UK. Don’t believe it. They will dream up anything to sell copy or get hits and the British people go along with it. This would never happen in the U.S. Never believe a UK source. Maybe someone should make a Church of Michael Jackson? What a bunch of losers! Go Darwin. I’d say that this is Darwinism at work. We’re better off without those deluded individuals in our gene pool.. I totally agree. So many people are so quick to pass judgement on others. What right do we have to condemn a person for something we are not totally sure occured—none of us can ever be totally sure—and that’s the only TRUTH here. The subject, of guilt or innocence for Michael Jackson will always be a difference of opinion to somebody. People that believe he was innocent, don’t really know what happened, he was tried by a jury, that’s all anybody can do legally. If you believe that he’s guilty..? it’s even harder to believe that he wasn’t being punished. What did you want him to do? Go to prison? His life “was” a prison. Have his money taken away from him? Technically he died broke! Have his children taken away from him? …..? psst! he’s…dead! There was no visible sign of an actual life for M.J. It didn’t matter if he tried, it was not going to work after all that emotional & psychological damage. Okay, look peoples at the end of the day, we all killed him. We killed him mentally which enancted him to respond pyshically. He had enough stab wounds from his past already deriven in him, and all the media and everyone else did was create new open wounds and kept diggingthe knife deeper and deeper. There is no doubt in my mind , michael loved his fans and we loved him ( well some of you) , but i guess in the end it doesnt matter. I could understand why people killed themselves because i was on the break of doing it. Yup, I was. Then something in me told me not too. I can’t even listen to his songs anymore. Look my point is, I know you all disagree , but we all are in some way responsible for his demise. Maybe, not inavertedly, but we are, all of us. We didnt put the pills and needles in him, but in a sense we sure did help him. I’m glad something told you not to, however I think it would be wise to still get some help. Suicide is a very serious thing and if the death of a pop star would put you on the brink of ending YOUR life…that’s a serious issue. im tired of seeing them talk about how michael died because i hate hurting on this subject but i did ask myself if people are killling themselves and to hear people ARE is kind of scary. i dont think its STUPID because..people felt his pain because some adults watched him from when he was little to now..as a grown man. but if YOURE thinking of killing yourself..think twice..and think really hard too. you might think im crazy but i thought of killing myself ..but i had to sit down and think..that paid off because im still here today! First of all for your people that been talking about MJ after his death why dont your try going on google and typing in Jordan Chandler statement and please STFU and stop accusing an innocent man, he never did any of those crimes that he was accuse of The kids father lied and force the kid to say that Michael Jackson touched him but in fact all the father wanted was money For Fucking sacks please use your brain If your children was touched, what would you want, the molestor to be sued for money or the molestor to locked up for life? Now stop talking all this mad shit about Michael Jackson and let the man rest in peace. This goes out to all the haters Some people don’t know how hard it is, It’s like you gonna feel like this for the rest of your lifr am only just 14 and i have never felt any pain like this in my whole life. when ever i hear man in the mirror i can’t help but start crying it really is hard. I feel like i can’t live with out michael it really does hurt i just wanna be with him so much. R.I.P michael ALWAYS THE KING OD POP There is not one person in the whole world that doesn’t like at least 1 Michael Jackson Song..! R.I.P King Of Pop! What the hell! Are you serious? Who will even think of killing themselves over some idiot let alone a “celeb”? Oh man society is seriously demented! You seriously think Michael Jackson had he been alive now he’d care about hearing on the news some typical “no one” died? Who gives a damn about him people he is DEAD he was just like the rest of us only difference is he made a tremendous amount of money! People get over it he is dead and in HELL aint no amount of suicides going to bring him back. Funny part I would love to see the faces of those IDIOTS when they’re escorted to HELL and fell the agony of it all. Then they will wish for someone who is really IMPORTANT GOD and he will be nowhere since they idolized a simple man. What then? BURN BABY BURN and all for little old M.J “the great” JA! Bunch of IDIOTS! hey people whats going on,mj is not GOD he is just as human as we… what a hell is going on,people killing themselves….thank GOD micheal name was stain over this molestation shit otherwise he would have get to a point that people will open church of micheal jackson.. All of the people that was judging Michael when he was alive needs to stop, he’s gone now and still is name is ringing. I’m sure you don’t like it when others jude you, Michael did good for people and no one is talking about that, imagine one of these days one of you guys getting blame for something you didn’t do, how would you feel? because things like that happen some people would say it could never happen to them but it can people are faulsly accused for things they didn’t do all the time. I think that everything that thinks negative about Michael should stop. I’m not Michael fan but I’ve listen to interview with him and I saw his concert on television and read about all the good things he’s done for people in Africa and that’s touching. Though I didn’t like Michael the thing he did made me appreciated him and the things that he went through in his life and still kept calm about it. That is what made feel for this man and he was always giving good advise. This is the first time in my life I’ve ever talk something about Michael. And yes it’s sad that all those people are killing themselve, to all those other people who are think about killing themselves,… DONT your life if precious and think about your family how much they need you. If you love Michael so much then don’t try to kill yourself, live to see him in his kids. God bless Do all the people out there who think he was a child molestor…where do they get that shit from? The media? The same media that fucked his life then started sucking up when he died? You think you know everything when you don’t know anything about him or what happened. I think you all need to realise how full of shit the media is and how wrongly they portrayed him. Don’t judge him based on some crap some journalist wrote on a slow news day. It’s all shit. Leave him alone! And for those heartless people there who don’t care about his passing but are really bored with your lives- leave others alone in their grief. It’s hard enough as it is. Suicide isnt something to mock. Those people weren’t happy with their lives, and you obviously aren’t happy with yours. I think the world would be a much better place without you. To JR : You Fuckin Asshole ! If he wasnt convicted , then he’s innocent . Your innocent until proven guilty shit locks so fuck off ! SO to clear it all up – he wasnt no damn child molestor , and how dare you assholes talk shit about those people that killed themselves ! there freakin dead you should be praying for them , not calling them crazy or how they mustve had issues.. fuck wrong with you people I just hate it when pepole talk about Micheal like that their just jeloius that their not a fan but they need ti stop hatin on him. i agree with anonymous jr so shut thebeep)up ass hole if you do’nt care about Michael Jackson you can kiss my mother (beep) ass and leave this website forever.if you do’nt i’m gonna kick your mother(BEEP)ass you got that that this also goes to every body who doesn’t care about Michael Jackson hey solitary angle call me bich hehehehehehehehe Arranged this consummate shill out for the suppress for tomorrows trash. There is a favored site to gain facebook or twitter styles? I would like a single badly. people need to chill out.

Sperryville Farmhouse, 2 Bedrooms + Other (See Description), 2 Baths (Sleeps 7-8) From $195/nt Write a Review:Adventure seekers, age 55+, families with teenagers, families with young children, pet owners, romantic getaway, sightseeing.:Age 55+, families with teenagers, families with young children, romantic getaway.:Adventure seekers, families with young children, girls getaway, pet owners, romantic getaway, sightseeing.:Age 55+, families with young children.:Adventure seekers, age 55+, families with teenagers, families with young children, girls getaway, pet owners, romantic getaway, sightseeing.: Guest: Alan and Mary Date of Stay: 05/22/11 Review Submitted: 07/05/11 What a wonderful place to stay and live! Congratulations on the wonderful farm you have created. I will always be jealous of the garden and flowers! Thanks for being such wonderful hosts. The restaurants you suggest were all great and each one something different. We look forward to coming back with all the family in the future. Recommended for: Guest: Erik, Katie and Lucy (dog) Date of Stay: 05/15/11 Review Submitted: 05/15/11 We had a blast here! We visited two wineries, the Thornton River Grille, Rudy's Pizza, and enjoyed the beautiful scenery. Our golden doodle Lucy loved exploring the property and made lots of new friends. We went canoeing and swimming in the lake even though it was raining all week-end. Lucy joined us. This is our second visit to Cardinal Springs and we plan to keep coming back! Thanks for the memories! Recommended for: Guest: Yoko, Collin, Hugo, and Gemma (dog) Date of Stay: 05/09/11 Review Submitted: 05/15/11 Thank you very much for letting us share a piece of heaven for my first Mother's Day with our son Hugo. Collin did very well in finding you on the Internet! We loved the area/county. It is very unique and quite beautiful. Words cannot describe how beautiful your property is. Hugo discovered all sorts of flowers and plants, horses and cows!! He loved every single minute of the stay! And Gemma had soooo much fun! We felt so at home, relaxed, and rested. We thank you so much for your hospitality and we look forward to coming back again. Recommended for: Guest: Suzanne, Jeremy, Henry, and Becca Date of Stay: 03/31/11 Review Submitted: 04/04/11 We were here less than five minutes when my son Henry and I both said--"Let's give up everything and move out here and learn how to farm!!" You've create quite an inspiring place. The kids loved hiking around the farm with Maggie and feeding/playing with the cats. We loved all of our hikes--snow, hail, rain, and all! We had quite an adventure. It seems you have found the perfect community and that this lovely farm has fallen into just the right hands. We are looking forward to coming back in the summer and taking advantage of the pond! Thanks so much! Recommended for: Guest: Mickey, Beth, and Stinky Date of Stay: 01/22/11 Review Submitted: 04/04/11 Mickey and I had a wonderful three night stay in your cozy guest cottage! You all put a lot of thought and effort into arranging the home and it shows. It was great seeing Stinky interact with all your animals. It's a shame to have to take him back to DC! Recommended for: Guest: Karen, Gerry, and Rocky Date of Stay: 01/01/11 Review Submitted: 04/04/11 Andrea and Steve and All the Animals-- Karen, Rocky, and I have now been here near the end of summer and the beginning of winter. We certainly picked a gorgeous respite from the bitter cold and terrible winds of last week. And what a great way to start the new year! I took a bunch of pictures as we climbed the hill, and we were all quite content to spend most of our time here. Your new house is beautiful and I know Karen got lots of decorating ideas for when we move. Thanks for everything and hope to get back soon. --Gerry For me, it's like coming to a stress free retreat! I'm not a country girl, but staying here is a fun adventure, especially investigating everything with Rocky. --Karen Recommended for: Guest: Kate and Val Date of Stay: 11/28/10 Review Submitted: 04/04/11 Thank you so much for sharing your piece of paradise with us and our dogs. Ripley and Natasha had more fun than dogs are allowed to have. Hopefully the mules will let them come back! Recommended for: Guest: Allison, Mark, Viviana, and Tango Date of Stay: 11/14/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 Mark, Viviana, our cat Tango and I enjoyed our stay! Viviana loved mooing at the cows (and horses) and watching me feed the horses apples and carrots! We hiked on your ridegeline trail and really enjoyed the fresh air and beautiful vistas! Recommended for: Guest: Laurel and Family Date of Stay: 11/04/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 We celebrated a 40th birthday at your lovely farm--a mother, a daughter turned 40 on November 6, an aunt, and friends. We loved it! Your animals are the best--very friendly!! Maggie was our hiking partner. Ror us-- Chicago/Springfield, IL/D.C. people--this serene atmosphere was a tonic. Dinner at the Inn at Little Washington wasn't bad either (an understatement). We're off to feed the horses then to the airport. We hope to return some day! Recommended for: Guest: Erin, Eric, and Ava Date of Stay: 10/23/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 It was wonderful staying on your beautiful farm. The grounds and animals are amazingly beautiful. Wish we didn't have to pack up so early tomorrow. The best part of my stay was walking up the hill at sunrise. Your home will have a spectacular view. Thanks for sharing this great spot! Recommended for: Guest: Sam and Ann Date of Stay: 10/21/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 Thank you so much for sharing your farm! We enjoyed every minute we were here--only our stay was too short! We especially enjoyed the farm animals, canoeing on the pond, having a fireplace, the beautiful scenery and gardens, and sitting on the porches relaxing! We had a full moon and the stars were beautiful! Your place is beautiful, your hospitality so caring and friendly. Thank you again! We hope to return to see another season. Good luck on your new home and your trip to Africa. Recommended for: Guest: Matt, Margaret, and Baron Date of Stay: 10/11/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 Thank you for the opportunity to stay at this beautiful location. You did a wonderful job keeping the past while integrating the present. Great fun and very relaxing. Will tell our friends! Recommended for: Guest: Kerry and Levi Date of Stay: 10/03/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 We enjoyed our stay at your beautiful farm! We loved the horses, mules, and especially Dixie! I really don't want to leave but took a ton of photos of the gardens, lush rolling hills, the way the sun glistens on the pond--all amazing and beautiful! And the stars at night were an added bonus. Thank you! We felt so at home here!! Recommended for: Guest: Linda and Jerry Date of Stay: 09/26/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 We now share the joy and excitement that Samantha, Ken, Isaac and Ruby have enjoyed throughout the years they have been coming to the farm. I am pleased to have met the mules, horses and kitties and to have been here to see the gardens cloaked in fall colors and seeding. Your joy, love and protection of this land and all the creatures on it inspire visitors to value and protect the natural world as well. Naturally, I looked for birds and was rewarded by a yellow-billed cuckoo skulking in the tree in back of the house. We look forward to return and wish you well in all your projects. Thank you! Recommended for: Guest: Sean and Dayna Date of Stay: 09/04/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 Thank you again for hosting us at this wonderful piece of heaven. The farm is a true retreat and has been a delight once again. We look forward to many more visits!l Recommended for: Guest: sg (Silver Spring MD) Date of Stay: 09/04/10 Review Submitted: 09/07/10 Cardinal Springs Farm is 130 acres of wonder and charm. Andrea and Steve have painstaking created a breathtaking retreat in the shadows of the Shenandoahs that rewards visitors with spectacular vistas and peace and quiet. Curl up with a book on the covered front porch and watch cattle grazing in a pasture, meander through the flower and vegetable gardens to gather your dinner, run or hike the trails on the property, stroll down to pond for a swim, a bit of fishing or just to while away the hours under the canopy of the covered dock. Cardinal Spring Farm is a treasure. Recommended for:Families with young children, pet owners, romantic getaway, sightseeing. Guest: Josh, Sue, Jack & Nora Date of Stay: 08/07/10 Review Submitted: 11/24/10 We had a magnificent time at the farm and in Sperryville. The house and farm were both perfect and had plenty to keep all four of us busy for the week. We also appreciated your warmth, hospitality, and patience with Jack and Nora. Jack was very taken by the horses and mules and learned a great deal about trying new things like canoeing. This was an ideal summer get-away from D.C. We can't wait for our next visit! Recommended for: Guest: Bob and Cynthia Date of Stay: 07/26/10 Review Submitted: 08/12/10 Andrea and Steve, Your farm is absolutely wonderful and we thoroughly enjoyed both the tranquility and the amenities! We appreciate all that you have done to save and renovate this lovely home, and your willingness to allow others to "step back in time" and enjoy it all! When we have the opportunity to return to the area, we certainly know where we'll want to stay...Cardinal Springs! Thank you! Recommended for: Guest: Judy, Marty, and Brogan Date of Stay: 07/18/10 Review Submitted: 08/12/10 I don't think I've ever had a more relaxing week-end. Your farm re-defines "get away." Hard to believe that the hustle and bustle of Washington is so close by the number of miles...but so far from one's mind while here! Thank you so much for opening up your home and your gardens (and friends like Maggie!) so that others may enjoy all that you have obviously worked so hard to make so charming. Recommended for: Guest: Laura, Ted, Brownie, and Summer Date of Stay: 07/05/10 Review Submitted: 07/19/10 Your farmhouse is charming. The bed was super comfy and the landscape was serene. We are so pleased we made it here after it looked like it was not going to happen. Ted said that despite his having to work through the week-end, he felt decompressed. Brownie and Summer loved meeting Maggie. I loved that they went off on their own little hike when you were showing us your new home. These dogs were absolutely exhausted after their first day on the farm. Best wishes with your new home. It is a show piece! Thank you for the tour--we really loved seeing all your wonderful ideas! Recommended for: Guest: Donna and Andy Date of Stay: 06/28/10 Review Submitted: 07/19/10 We enjoyed our stay in your country retreat. We loved the friendly animals, walking through the gardens, and listening to the birds. The Thornton River Grille was fabulous! It was a lovely, relaxing way to spend our anniversary. All the best! Recommended for: Guest: Cara and Pepi Date of Stay: 06/21/10 Review Submitted: 07/19/10 Thank you so much for the gift of this beautiful, magical place you have shared so generously with us. We came here to celebrate our one year anniversary and can't believe how blessed we are to have been led to such an amazing place. Your work and love for this land and its flowers, trees, and animals is an inspiration. We hope to see you again soon! Recommended for: Guest: dami & paul (Washington, DC) Date of Stay: 06/10/10 Review Submitted: 06/12/10 My husband and I went there finally after a few crazy weeks following our wedding and family visit. This was just what we needed. Beautiful setting, tons of company of birds, crickets and frogs. The rolling mountains and pond made it picture perfect. The house is very comfortable, with all the necessities including all the tools to grill. Andrea (and her dog Maggie) were great hosts. Recommended for:Adventure seekers, age 55+, families with young children, romantic getaway, sightseeing. Guest: The Beuse Family Date of Stay: 05/28/10 Review Submitted: 06/10/10 What an incredible place you have here! Our family had an amazing long week-end. We enjoyed hiking up on the ridge, swimming and fishing and seeing many deer, including a fawn with its doe. As our 5 year old daughter said, "We woke up to the birds singing to us and went to bed under the stars with the firefly performance." You have provided for our every need, and even enhanced our dinners with the fruits from your garden. We hope to come back to enjoy this experience again soon. We loved that the kids and our dog Coco could roam free and explore all the world has to offer here. Coco spent hours swimming in the pond. I was amazed when he finally decided it was time to get out. Elisabeth and Samuel loved playing and caring for the cats, especially Dixie. Warm Regards and God Bless, The Beuse Family, Falls Church, VA Recommended for: Guest: Crystal and Doug Date of Stay: 05/21/10 Review Submitted: 06/08/10 Andrea and Steve, Thank you for sharing your little piece of heaven with us! It couldn't be more perfect! Thank you for allowing us to stroll through your property, fish in your pond, enjoy the bounties of your garden while enjoying the soitude of your farm with the company of all your animals! We are already looking forward to our next visit! Crystal and Doug Bridgeville, Delaware Recommended for: Guest: Marjorie and Jim Date of Stay: 04/16/10 Review Submitted: 05/05/10 Andrea and Steve, Thank you for five enchanted, serene and inspirational days. We don't want to leave--and will return. Not only did you make us feel welcome, Maggie, the kitties, the horses and mules and the catfish all seem to have had hospitality training. All of the views from the small whimsical touches in your gardens, to the large vistas of rolling hills and Old Rag were magical. --Marjorie and Jim Recommended for: Guest: Stacey and Tim Date of Stay: 04/04/10 Review Submitted: 05/05/10 Thank you for sharing your farm with us! This was the perfect setting to welcome spring and reconnect as friends. Everything at the house was lovely and you ordered perfect weather for hiking. Thanks. We hope to come back soon! --Stacey and Tim Recommended for: Guest: Carrie, Hudson, and Dirk Date of Stay: 04/01/10 Review Submitted: 05/05/10 We enjoyed every minute of our stay at the farm. The horses were so much fun to pet and feed and the cats were super friendly (especially Dixie). The scenery was AMAZING! We enjoyed fishing, playing cards on the porch, hiking, exploring, and just taking it all in. Thank you so much for showing us around and welcoming us to your farm. It was an amazing experience overall! We hope to return for even longer some day! Thank you again for having us at the farm! Recommended for: Guest: Sam and Maria Date of Stay: 02/16/10 Review Submitted: 02/15/10 Sam and I loved staying here for our honeymoon. It's so quiet, calm, relaxing, and removed from all the interruptions and distractions. The huge amount of snow prevented us from doing much outside, but the house is cozy and beautiful, and the views are amazing. Thanks so much--hopefully we'll get back here in the summer sometime for some hiking. Sam and Maria Recommended for: Guest: Bill and Danny Date of Stay: 01/18/10 Review Submitted: 01/17/10 Our second visit to the Cardinal Springs Farmhouse and once again, enjoyable! By day 3 we were into a country living schedule and up early enough to see a beautiful winter sunrise right over the pond. The birds all greeted us as the sun brought huge pink clouds slowly floating over the hilltops. Thanks again! Bill and Danny P.S.--The visit and tour of Wasmund's Distillery in Sperryville was a great new discovery. Their single malts are great! Recommended for: Guest: Steve and Judy Date of Stay: 12/28/09 Review Submitted: 12/27/09 Dear Andrea and Steve, Thank you for sharing your beautiful farm. How comfortable and cozy. Love the frozen lake, fires at night, walks and gazebo. The animals were so friendly and amazing! Happy New Year and good luck on finishing the new house! Best Regards, Steve and Judy Recommended for: Guest: Sarah and John Date of Stay: 12/19/09 Review Submitted: 12/18/09 Andrea and Steve, Beautiful farm and cottage. Lots of snow! Very pretty. Thank you for all of your help. We will be back when we can enjoy the wineries. Sarah and John Recommended for: Guest: Kara and Geoff Date of Stay: 11/28/09 Review Submitted: 11/27/09 Dear Andrea and Steve, From the cozy fires to the starlit nights, we had a tremendously beautiful, peaceful, and restorative holiday week-end. Being able to wake up in the morning and take the dog for a walk around the stunning property was a true gift. Your home connected us to each other as a family--and as a family to nature. We will be back. All the best, Kara and Geoff Recommended for: Guest: Rosalyn and John Date of Stay: 11/22/09 Review Submitted: 11/21/09 Dear Andrea and Steve, Thank you so much for sharing your farmhouse with us. It was exactly what we were looking for. Maggie was a wonderful tour guide as we hiked up to the ridge and through the woods. It was great to come back to a cozy home and sit in front of a fire. We especially enjoyed sitting on the little white bench at night and gazing at the stars togethere and enjoying a perfect evening...with Dixie. We're already planning our next trip back. Our week-end could not have been more perfect. Sincerely, Rosalyn and John Recommended for: Guest: Sarah and Roberta Date of Stay: 11/04/09 Review Submitted: 11/03/09 Dear Andrea and Steve-- Thank you so much for providing such a lovely farmhouse for our vacation. The house is cozy, well appointed, and in a superbly beautiful setting. We hope to stay again sometime...especially when the garden is in full bloom. Thanks so much! Sarah and Roberta Recommended for: Guest: Bill and Danny Date of Stay: 11/01/09 Review Submitted: 10/31/09 Many thanks for the warm welcome and cosy accommodations. Given the damp weather the fireplace was very much appreciated! Good luck with the new house. Bill and Danny Recommended for: Guest: Nicholas and Cacy Date of Stay: 10/23/09 Review Submitted: 10/22/09 Dear Andrea and Steve, Thank you for sharing such a wonderful property with us. The fall colors were beautiful and the house warm and comfortable. Even though fall has kicked in it is clear that your gardens are beautiful and we intend to return to see it someday in full splendor. thanks! Nicholas and Casy Recommended for: Guest: Tim, Sumaya & Frank Date of Stay: 10/18/09 Review Submitted: 10/17/09 Andrea and Steve, Your house and land are the perfect places for old friends to reconnect and enjoy their time together. We were so thankful for the peace and serenity and also for the sheer beauty of the house and the surroundings. We also met three of the nicest cats we ever have seen, and enjoyed the sight of the horses and the fish in the lake. Thank you so much for sharing it all! We hope to return! Recommended for: Guest: Adam and Sandra Date of Stay: 10/11/09 Review Submitted: 10/10/09 Andrea and Steve, Thank you for making this weekend so splendid and relaxing. Watching the sunset next to a fire pit, sipping warm apple cider, and petting and playing with the cats (but keeping them away from the fire!). Feeding the fish on the dock on a beautiful fall morning. Walking the grounds and saying hello to the horses. All while enjoying the warmth and hospitality of the farmhouse. You made this weekend so memorable and we can't thank you enough for making sure every detail was covered! We look forward to returning here in the future for another lovely weekend sometime soon! Recommended for:

worship. November 4th, 2009 | 11:00 am | #1 The gospel is the antidote to everything. I’m not saying that’s wrong, but it makes it sound like the Gospel is a can of WD-40. Got a problem? I got a solution—The Gospel! Say I have a problem with athlete’s foot. How do I apply the Gospel to fix it? Unless we can explain—in every situation—how the Gospel applies to a solution then its useless to use that as an catch-all answer. In fact, it may be worse than useless since it makes it sound like people’s problems are illusory. November 4th, 2009 | 11:16 am | #2 When Jesus returns, there will be no athlete’s foot, so take that, Joe. :-) {High Five to Jared} November 4th, 2009 | 11:16 am | #3 Unless we can explain—in every situation Well, it’s a blog post, so I couldn’t explain how it applies in every situation. But I do over the course of conversations, counseling, and preaching. But the blog post does offer some brief in points in arguing that it does apply to all situations, specifically the universal dichotomy of fallenness the Bible illustrates throughout its story. it makes it sound like people’s problems are illusory. The opposite, in fact. The Gospel, which is news of a historical event and the ramification of the fleshly incarnation of God himself, is sufficient for all problems precisely because it is something realer than psychology (or what have you). November 4th, 2009 | 11:49 am | #4 Well, it’s a blog post, so I couldn’t explain how it applies in every situation. But I do over the course of conversations, counseling, and preaching. But I think that’s the problem. When we try to reduce a concept like the gospel to something that can fit into a blog post but that requires hours of explication to explain, then we are sowing the seeds of confusion. You may understand what the concept means, your fellow pastor-theologians may understand, and even some more sophisticated laymen may understand. But most people will not understand it, feel dumb that they don’t, but try to use it in their own evangelistic efforts—sowing more confusion. It reminds me of an old joke about a young Marine Corps private who gets assigned to a new platoon of old veterans. One day he sees them sitting in a circle spouting off numbers. “24″ a sergeant says, and everyone busts out laughing. “44″, says a corporal and everyone cracks up again. “What’s that about,” the private asks. The gunnery sergeant explains, “We’ve all been together so long and heard the same jokes for so many years that we just use numbers for them now instead of having to recite the whole thing.” “Let me give it a try,” says the private. “8″ Everyone sits in silence and stares at him. “What’d I do wrong?,” he asks. “Why did no one laugh?” The gunny looks at him blankly and says, “You told it wrong.” That jokes reminds me of your statement. If everyone understands all the concepts involved then it makes sense (but doesn’t really need to be said). If they don’t then they aren’t going to be able to tell it in a way that people can understand. November 4th, 2009 | 12:02 pm | #5 When we try to reduce a concept like the gospel to something that can fit into a blog post but that requires hours of explication to explain, then we are sowing the seeds of confusion. Joe, but it doesn’t. Do you want to ask the same question at the end of the parable of the Prodigal Son? Yes, but HOW, Jesus is your message equally for both sons? You didn’t explain that. It’s a cliffhanger story there. Please finish it out. If everyone understands all the concepts involved then it makes sense (but doesn’t really need to be said). If they don’t then they aren’t going to be able to tell it in a way that people can understand. Well. Now. Maybe you can understand why it’s frustrating to get the wearying redundancy of politics on a blog named for the Gospel. We certainly wont’ get to familiarity with the core message of the good news that way. (Don’t all our posts on politics, without reference to Jesus or his message, and without lengthy explanations of the Christian’s responsibility to culture and the state, have the same problem? They also assume core messages they don’t convey either.) If you think the readers interested in an evangelical blog are reading and don’t know what “the Gospel” means, we have a huge problem, don’t we? November 4th, 2009 | 12:05 pm | #6 In fact, I would argue that the insistence we define “the gospel” because it sounds so vague while at the same time assuming the Christian’s obligation to political engagement without repeated explanations proves all the stuff I’ve been saying about Christians and culture war is true. November 4th, 2009 | 12:40 pm | #7 I’m a bit perplexed by the sentence, “The gospel is the antidote to everything.” If the gospel fixes everything then why, after 2000 years of gospel proclamation, isn’t everything fixed? Why are things getting worse – whether in the world or in churches – instead of better? This reminds me of the Pollyannaistic mantra of the Jesus Freaks: “Jesus is the Answer.” As though the question doesn’t matter. God is the answer to everything (given sufficient time) and God’s love certainly changes lives, but a bumper-sticker prescription doesn’t seem to be having much of a positive effect for most people in the world – however you want to define or limit “world.” November 4th, 2009 | 12:58 pm | #8 If the gospel fixes everything then why, after 2000 years of gospel proclamation, isn’t everything fixed? Because the new heavens and the new earth aren’t here yet. Why are things getting worse – whether in the world or in churches – instead of better? This is a relative question, better or worse. The mortality rate is better today than it was in Jesus’ day. Health is better. Literacy is better. Etc. etc. I’m not a postmillennialist (or a Pollyanna :-), but I do believe the gospel is bearing fruit in all the world, as Paul said it already was in the opening lines of Colossians even back then. a bumper-sticker prescription doesn’t seem to be having much of a positive effect for most people in the world The gospel is not a bumpersticker prescription. Only someone who hasn’t experienced its power would think it is. November 4th, 2009 | 1:00 pm | #9 Question for the poo-poo’ers: What do you say/think when you read things in the Bible like “The gospel is the power of salvation for all who believe” and “The gospel is bearing fruit in all the world” and “That which is of first importance”??? Do you think, “Oh those persecuted and imprisoned and martyred Pollyannas with their silly bumperstickers”? November 4th, 2009 | 1:19 pm | #10 When I first read this post, I was ambivalent. My first impulse was to cheer, as I definitely believe that the gospel brings salvation to sinners and that this salvation affects the whole of life. But the difficulty with stating this in a blog post is that it necessarily skips some significant steps along the way. If someone asks for my response, as a political scientist, to the widespread fraud in the recent Afghan election and how it can be fixed, and if I reply, “Jesus is the answer!”, I could hardly blame this person for being dissatisfied or regarding me as a bit of a kook. There is, of course, a profound sense in which Jesus is the answer, but we need to do the hard work of sorting through the implications of the gospel for such troubling political dilemmas. I affirm with the great Dutch statesman and theologian, Abraham Kuyper, that there is not a square inch of the cosmos of which Christ does not say “mine!” But what are the implications of this confession for marriage, family, political life, ecclesiastical life, the sciences, the arts, &c.? Too quickly drawing a straight line between the gospel and the dilemmas of life risks bypassing necessary theoretical reflection and concrete application. November 4th, 2009 | 1:51 pm | #11 Jared: I appreciate the attempted ad hominem attack but will try not to respond in kind. It was clear (or so I thought) that I was referring specifically and only to the statement, “The gospel is the antidote for everything.” That is the bumper sticker, not the Person who gives power to the gospel. I think you know that but, as is your wont, you choose to attack rather than clarify. Well, it’s your playing field and I am but a guest. But to return to a more civil discourse and one of your comments in particular: you said that the reason things weren’t fixed is because “the new heavens and the new earth aren’t here yet.” I agree. Doesn’t that imply that the antidote to everything is actually the new heavens and the new earth rather than the gospel? If you had said, “The gospel is the antidote for everything of importance,” I would agree without reservation. But I don’t think the gospel is the antidote for the Colts lack of a running game. Finally (“at last,” they sighed in relief!), you adduced Rom 1.16, Col 1.6, and 1 Co 15.3. I embrace them completely in all that they affirm. The gospel is the only answer to the problem of man’s separation from God – but I don’t think we can attribute improved mortality or literacy rates to the power of the gospel. Certainly the gospel is bearing fruit, but what is the fruit it is producing in this context? Is it not the salvation of those who are lost without the gospel? The gospel is without question of “first importance,” far more important than literacy or physical longevity. But to say it is the antidote for the broken tie rod in my truck is a bit of a misapplication of the gospel, at least to me. But then I am, according to your judgment, one “who hasn’t experienced its power.” What do I know? November 4th, 2009 | 2:14 pm | #12 Wow, Mike, sensitive much. as is your wont Really? The gospel is the antidote for everything.” That is the bumper sticker That is the title of the post. Should I not title my posts. I explained the title in the post. Doesn’t that imply that the antidote to everything is actually the new heavens and the new earth rather than the gospel? But the good news includes the provision that they are coming. But I don’t think the gospel is the antidote for the Colts lack of a running game. It makes the lack of a running game unimportant. Why is that not important? Because the good news is true, I think. Because the lack of a running game is VERY important to some people. Just listen to sports talk radio sometime. The gospel is the only answer to the problem of man’s separation from God – but I don’t think we can attribute improved mortality or literacy rates to the power of the gospel. No, I don’t either. I was only meaning to challenge your assertion that things are getting worse. I do agree we still have sin in the world (obviously), but I don’t think whether things are getting better or worse in the world really have any bearing on whether the good news is true or not, or good or not. It was a peripheral point, only trying to demonstrate the relativity of your claim. Things aren’t “all bad,” in other words. But to say it is the antidote for the broken tie rod in my truck is a bit of a misapplication of the gospel, at least to me. The reductionism is sillier than my “bumpersticker.” The examples I give in the post have to do with human fallenness. To take my “everything” line out of that context is really weird. But you and Joe are both doing that, arguing as if I didn’t set up the “everything” as the universal dichotomy of human fallenness in both wanton sin and legalistic self-righteousness. But if pressed, I’d say the gospel doesn’t fix your broken tie-rod but it can fix how you respond to your tie-rod being broken. But then I am, according to your judgment, one “who hasn’t experienced its power.” What do I know? I don’t know. All I know is that I said the gospel is the antidote for a broken world and I have Christians going “Huh?” November 4th, 2009 | 2:17 pm | #13 Certainly the gospel is bearing fruit, but what is the fruit it is producing in this context? Is it not the salvation of those who are lost without the gospel? That’s the beginning, but it’s bigger than that. It is the arrival and spread of God’s kingdom too. “The gospel is not just the ABC’s of the Christian life, it is the A to Z.” – Tim Keller November 4th, 2009 | 2:20 pm | #14 David: What implications would you like me to address? I haven’t done anything in this post that isn’t itself just extrapolated from anything in Paul’s introductions to his epistles. The collective shrug to “Jesus is the answer!” (as if that’s all I said anyway: the post IS longer than one line, you know) is mind boggling. November 4th, 2009 | 2:23 pm | #15 The gospel is the only answer to the problem of man’s separation from God – but I don’t think we can attribute improved mortality or literacy rates to the power of the gospel. Btw, if THIS is true, Joe and John Mark and others need to address it as well, because the majority of posts on this blog are coming from the implicit assumption that cultural change and political change are results of the gospel. November 4th, 2009 | 2:32 pm | #16 Great discussion guys, If statements like “But to say it is the antidote for the broken tie rod in my truck is a bit of a misapplication of the gospel, at least to me” logically follow from the proposition that the Gospel is the antidote to everything, then the fault lies in the original statement, not the reduction. Also it feels a bit artificial to claim it is the answer to everything, and then defend the claim by saying that the examples it doesn’t apply to are disqualified since they lack importance. I think the power of the gospel is powerful because it fixes the big issues. It answers why there is suffering in the world. It doesn’t address each and every individual injustice and give it purpose, though it does tell us that this too shall be made right. Telling the starving that the gospel is the antidote to all their problems is simply not true. Economics and politics are problems that need to be fixed that are not taken care of by the gospel. It is the answer to the most important problem, but certainly not all. November 4th, 2009 | 2:39 pm | #17 Also it feels a bit artificial to claim it is the answer to everything, and then defend the claim by saying that the examples it doesn’t apply to are disqualified since they lack importance. Caleb, thanks. Michael said it applies only to “important” things, not me. I’m saying that it makes the unimportant things become unimportant. Because broken tie-rods and lack of football success can reveal idolatry in our hearts. Big time. So the gospel may not of course fix the broken automobile but the problem of broken automobiles is absolutely not outside the scope of the gospel. As a personal testimony, I know that my angst over car trouble, which has plagued me for as long as . . . well, as long as I’ve been driving, as virtually disappeared since the gospel renaissance God worked in my life 4 years ago. My response to car trouble before I knew what I call “gospel wakefulness” revealed the idolatry in my heart, revealed where my true trust was and where my true treasure was. Telling the starving that the gospel is the antidote to all their problems is simply not true. Then Jesus is wrong in the Beatitudes to say it is. Economics and politics are problems that need to be fixed that are not taken care of by the gospel. Sure they are. One day all nations, tribes, and tongues will worship Christ the Lord in the new heavens and new earth. Every king will bow and confess he is Lord. Btw, if that last statement of yours is true, you need to go post it on every political post on this site. November 4th, 2009 | 3:01 pm | #18 Jared: I think we agree in principle that the gospel is the only thing of importance when it comes to important things, i.e., restoring the earth and people to God’s original design. As for my sensitivity, this is like sport to me. I don’t take anything personally and don’t mean anything personally. My apologies if I have come across otherwise. My final statement is this: The gospel of Jesus Christ is the only antidote for anything that is truly important. B.N. – I’m pretty sure I’ve experienced its power, but then there’s Mt 7.21-23. :( November 4th, 2009 | 3:05 pm | #19 Mike, thanks. I appreciate that. I would agree with your final statement, but add in that it makes the unimportant things unimportant. — Also: None of the responses to my post have pulled at all from the bulk of it. I explain the “everything” in about 6 paragraphs that nobody has quoted or responded to. It’s puzzling to get comments that speak as though “The gospel fixes everything” is all that is written there, as if I neither outline the everything or provide some basis for how the gospel fixes it (prodigal son parable, etc.) In Ephesians, Paul extrapolates on this idea — the gospel as unifying and all-encompassing power — that runs through the whole NT (and is set up by the crappy older brothers throughout the OT) with his Jew and Gentile becoming one body business. I really don’t believe I’m innovating anything here. I am pulling from what I see in Scripture — “All things were created through him and for him” — and basically just aping Tim Keller. November 4th, 2009 | 3:32 pm | #20 About the starving… usually there are a litany of problems that cause them. Taking care of starving people is an application of the gospel, but the answers themselves do not necessarily flow from the gospel. (engineering and infrastructure, farming techniques, etc. all are problems that need specific answers. The gospel relates in that we are to help them, but does not provide the specific answers itself) I really do enjoy the gospel-centrality that you present and defend, what I don’t like is saying that the gospel is the antidote to every specific problem. The fact that the gospel permeates all aspects of life does not mean all answers stem from it. My primary beef comes not from the fact that you are emphasizing the influence of the gospel in all aspects of life, but rather you are saying it solves everything. I would say it solves the big things, and gives us hope and perspective on the rest of life’s problems. “Sure they are. One day all nations, tribes, and tongues will worship Christ the Lord in the new heavens and new earth. Every king will bow and confess he is Lord.” -I fail to see how this is an antidote to a village that has no potable water. The gospel should drive us to get them water, but the answer itself is multi-faceted and will require political and civil engineering solutions that the gospel itself gives us no answer for. It also tells us that in the end it shall be made right, but they still need water, and its still a very real problem in need of resolution. I actually don’t think we disagree much at all in principle. I’m just coming from the perspective that we need to be very cautious with blanket statements. The fact that the gospel relates to every human problem, is not the same as saying that it is the antidote to every problem, any more than going to a village to solve water problems without the necessary engineering, political, and other solutions is the antidote to thirst. While the content of your post is in fact in reference to the human condition, the statement is still unqualified, and makes me nervous. And while I know YOU don’t think this way at all, saying the gospel solves everything is going to cause parallels to the bumper-sticker theology like “Jesus is the answer” and prosperity gospel-esque theology. November 4th, 2009 | 3:41 pm | #21 Taking care of starving people is an application of the gospel, but the answers themselves do not necessarily flow from the gospel. I guess we disagree, then. I draw a direct line from the good news that Jesus is Lord to what life is like in his kingdom. If Jesus is Lord, and in his kingdom those who are hungry are fed, then there is an implication of the gospel on the issue of starvation. This doesn’t mean of course that all people who are starving will get food to eat. But the gospel is the answer to starvation, and I’ll try to explain that by responding to something else you wrote. I fail to see how [the gospel] is an antidote to a village that has no potable water. Two ways: It tells the village that there is living water, so that even if they die, they really live. It creates the advancement of the kingdom, which empowers Christians to work to bring potable water to the village. I think one miscommunication in effect here is folks hearing that I’m saying that the gospel solving starvation means nobody will ever starve. I’m not a universalist. I’m saying that the answer to the problem of real (not hypothetical) starvation is the good news. Yes the embodiment of its implications, but also its proclamation. Nowhere is this more evident than Paul in prison writing to persecuted people. He offers them the hope of the gospel as an answer to their suffering, which is not the same thing as saying “You’re gonna stop hurting.” I’m just coming from the perspective that we need to be very cautious with blanket statements. Agreed. I don’t think they’re quite as blanket as everyone else seems to think (as they are elaborated on in the post from which they’re being decontextualized), but I appreciate the opportunity to clarify. Thanks, Caleb. November 4th, 2009 | 4:35 pm | #22 Um, ‘kay… At the point that someone says “Abortion is bad” and we all go “YAAAYY!” but someone says “the Gospel is the best thing ever” and we all go “Wait a minute, what about athlete’s foot?” we have a serious problem. Like a real serious one, that we need to repent of. Maybe “evangelicals” isn’t a good name for us. Perhaps “Republicans with loosely interpreted Bible verses” suits us better. November 4th, 2009 | 4:41 pm | #23 Maybe the gospel isn’t the answer or antidote to *anything*? What if the gospel was never a fix that came along after the problem, or an answer that came along after the question, but something that was always going to be *whatever*? November 4th, 2009 | 4:44 pm | #24 Doug, Amen. November 4th, 2009 | 5:26 pm | #25 The Gospel is the antidote to everything (and anything) that which matters. The gospel will not fix my busted transmission. Only $2,500 will do that. But if I do not believe the gospel, the transmission is not my real problem. Yet if I do believe the gospel, I still have the problem of the transmission. But if I am in the midst of a body of believers (I think they call that the church), those who truly do believe and act on the gospel, someone might give me a car (it happened), another may contribute to the cost of it’s repair (that’s happened) or another may help fix it (that happened too). So the gospel is the solution to my real problem, and to all my other “problems” (which really are not problems, but simply opportunities for believers to live out the gospel) November 4th, 2009 | 6:08 pm | #26 #1 problem with the blogsphere: people reading blog posts critically, trying to find places to misunderstand and disagree. Solution? Well, I would say for people to be charitable and give the benefit of the doubt, but now I’m not so sure. I might have to say it’s the Gospel… [insert wink face] November 4th, 2009 | 6:12 pm | #27 And I don’t know about you guys, but the gospel I adhere to promises health, wealth, and good feelings, so I don’t know what “problems” y’all are talking about. [insert I-hope-that-isn't-blasphemy face] November 4th, 2009 | 10:36 pm | #28 [...] gospel, The Boar's Head Tavern, the Kingdom of God, Truly Reformed by Andrew Several blogs (Evangel, The Boar’s Head Tavern, and City of God, at least) have been discussing the meaning of the [...] November 4th, 2009 | 11:01 pm | #29 “He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together” (except stuff like broken tie rods and athlete’s foot). November 5th, 2009 | 12:10 am | #30 Perhaps, as has been previously intimated, we don’t even know what a problem is. Take Wes R’s last post ““He existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together” (except stuff like broken tie rods and athlete’s foot).” In fact, He’s holding that tie rod together in it’s brokeness, and He’s holding that athletes foot together as well. Dac mentioned that those are all opportunities to live out the gospel. He’s right. In point of fact, those aren’t even real problems. They really are opportunities, after all, who decided that the tie rod should break and that you’d get athletes foot…why it was God all along. So the only real problem, really is the problem of sin. And even that was always in God’s plan. Sometimes we forget that I think, and so we miscontrue our mission. We live to demonstrate God’s love and grace to people, in hopes that, in delivering the gospel to them, they will repent and have their only real problem solved. This whole thing comes down to the whole “felt needs” thing. If we preach to felt needs, we will miss the real need. If we preach to the real need, those felt needs become irrelevant. November 5th, 2009 | 1:23 am | #31 Wes: You’re almost right with that cutesy “Jesus is central” thing(where did you get that anyway?), but I stubbed my toe once, and it was PAINFUL. But hey, thanks for playing. Remember to vote! November 5th, 2009 | 2:30 am | #32 I read this first thing this morning and it did my heart so much good, so to see some of these comments is really disheartening. An antidote is only effective for reversing a poison when it’s a. known to exist and b. taken off the shelf and applied, with a great deal of force, to the source of the poison. And I think 2 Corinthians 5:21 is a lot shorter than this blog post. But maybe Paul was just being reductionistic and insufficiently nuanced too… November 5th, 2009 | 8:16 am | #33 “We must know this article (the gospel) well and bang it into our heads repeatedly.” – Luther November 5th, 2009 | 8:58 am | #34 Doug, Colossians 1:17, NLT (commentary was mine). Sorry about your toe. I was going to vote but I misplaced my voter guide. November 5th, 2009 | 2:00 pm | #35 Wes: Why do you need a voter guide? Just look for the “R” next to their name, and let your light shine! Seriously though, I appreciated your post. Links Blogs Find Us

://Your Account//: ://Customize//: ://Games//: ://Explore//: ://News//: ://Pet Central//: ://Boards//: ://Shops//: ://Mall//: You trudge through the forest, snow striking you in the face with a bitter nip, and crunching beneath your feet. As the twilight falls, the snow swirls ever more, strings of sleet and large, wet flakes writhing in the dancing currents and eddies like long-lost spirits, rising from the earth in a moment of celebration. The limbs of the massive trees around you, with trunks thicker than a castle's turret, and boughs so laden down with snow and ice that they duck bashfully towards the ground. You really had no idea where you were, and you realized quickly that returning from Taelia's quest with no guidance or heat source was a foolish idea. You had only intended it to be a short walk in the woods, so beautiful as this. Now you're lost, cold, and the twilight pads quickly through the forest on paws as indiscreet as cat's. You whimper, your teeth chattering like castanets. Or, is that the faintly glimmering wind chime that tinkles morosely in the tree beside you. Suddenly you feel as though you are being watched, although no being besides the spirits in the swirling snow stops and shows itself to your eyes. You cry out, but the sound is lost discomfortingly in the trees. Nearby, you see another mysterious wind chime, of similar make but a completely different design. Curious about the tiny wind-chimes and their distant, almost unnerving tune, you step neared to the first one. It is really a quite remarkable piece, with an unusual, spiraling design, it's chimes shaped like knotted fir fronds, the top a delicate thig. From just behind you, in the cold, biting air, there comes a thump, and a crunch. You spin around, the scream ripped from your mouth by the wind, as the howl rose to an ear-splitting wail, and the wind chime before you breaks apart and shatters into a million pieces. The reeds begin to wave in your direction, and soon a bright, cheerful-looking young ixi doe stands before you, grinning widely at her new companion. .."Hello!" she exclaims brightly, "I'm Kyla Desmond! You've nothing to fear in me, who're you? .."I'm, I'm guest," you stammer uncertainly, clutching the gossamer-like blanket around your shoulders. .."Nice to meet you," the doe smiles bashfully, ducking her head at you, "I'm sure you'd like something to dine upon while we talk . . . With a fleeting glance back at you, the doe disappears once more into the reeds, with a sigh, you decide to sit back and wait for her to return. In the meanwhile, you glance around you, and notice something peculiar, a thick, strange looking tome, bound in reeds and with a cover of pale lavender, strange, silver symbols decorating the spine and front. You find yourself inexplicably drawn to the book, and as you reach for it, you see that it is swathed in a faintly pink mist. Name: Kyla_Desmond Nicknames: Kyla, Ky, KD Gender: Female Species: Ixi Element: She was originally of the element Air. She is since her turning immortal of all elements. Paint Color: Striped Original Color: Blue-maybe, I painted her the day after I adopted her, so, I'm not entirely sure . . . Favorite Color: Sky Blue Favorite Gemstone: Diamond Favorite Holiday: Spring Equinox Birthday: July 7 Birthstone: Ruby Zodiac: Cancer--the crab Coat: Sky blue Undercoat: pale sky blue Markings: Typical striped ixi features, with three light raspberry bars on each upper-leg. Snowflake/starlike pale raspberry spread across her mid back. Tawny, fawn-colored, dirty-blond, short bob, with longer braid ending in colorful beads and feathers. On her forehead she has a dark plum, five-pointed star symbol. Her hooves and horns are silver. Eye color: Dark violet-blue Personality: Sweet, kind, soulful, deep and dreamy, empathetic. She's quite crazy really, she sits on her hooves sometimes at night, on the highest branches of her treetop home and stars at the stars, wondering what they see and how they view life from their perspective. Characteristics she looks for in others: She judges people on their non-normalness. Er, yea. She likes personality, and unusual characters, she is very empathetic, so, she sees deep in to everyone, it can be quite uncomfortable to be pinned under her searching gaze. Roleplay: She's kind of quiet at first, but warms up quickly. Neomail i1Wolfrunner my main to be her buddy^^ Love: Hmm, we'll see about that in time. ://Rita//: Aye! Rita is an amazing friend of mine. We've known each other for a while and I'll tell you we've gotten into a lot of trouble together. From Meridell, she's crazy wild, she knows trees from their roots to their leaves, which, remarkably can come in pretty handy. She's sure blessed with the knowledge of everything earth. I am so glad that I met her. ://Iriz//: Iriz, dear Iriz. She is a kind ixi indeed. I've known her for the same time as Rita, she is somewhat mysterious, her story is not completely clear, but she's a great friend. She's very nice and I'm glad that I met her. ://Blasche//: Blasche. I love you like a brother. You are my best friend and you have been since I was a baby. He's so easygoing and nice, he's thoughtful and I don't know what I would do without him. He grew up with me, and he's been there for me since I was found in the forest, lost and alone, a baby. ://Tinament//: Tinament is like a sister to me, she is Wolf's first neopet, and a deity of the trees in her own right. Tina loves the forest so much that one day as she walked through the woods she too was caught by a bolt of lightning, but this was no ordinary flash of energy. It was truly a bolt sent by the forest which transformed Tinament in to a creature of her own. Tinament's quirky, spicy, and bossy attitude contrasts noisily with my more laid back way of being and we befriended quickly. ..Far within the Lesser Altadorian Range, a small clan of mountain ixi lived, their hooves hard and tough, and their fur thick. Amongst their clan, all of the ixi had been born and raised in the mountain pine forests, the people of the sky. They worshiped the sun and the moon, and were nomadic, traveling south in the winter into the foothills where toadstools and shriveled berries sustained them over the long winter. In summer they moved north to their traditional gathering place where they stayed throughout the short summer months feasting on the spring growth. The leader of their herd was a buck named Calaster. He had dark, russet fur sprinkled with pale blue, and piercing blue eyes, his underfur the color of old straw. His son, a young buck by the name of Barritone, would take his place one Calaster had perished. His so was a well-mannered, strong, brave, dashing fellow, exactly the kind of buck that the Mountain herd valued. ..But, one day, a tiny, delicate little Plains Ixi arrived on the scene. Her herd had been obliterated by the brutal wildfire season, and she was alone, scared, battered, and had no idea how to live on the mountains. Her fur was pale pink, and she had chocolate stripes. Barritone fell in love with her. His herd grew resentful. But one dow in particular grew more and more bitter. Revina, the doe who was arranged to rule the herd with Barritone. She loved him, yet she felt nothing but bitter hatred towards the doe who had stolen her love from her. She took on the open post of herd healer, and her heart turned as cold as ice. Secretly, she hid in the woods practicing witchcraft and consorting with all kinds of despicable beasts. She was determined for revenge. She festered in her envy and anger and pity, it turned inward and destroyed her soul. One night, she knew she was now strong enough to do the deed. She cursed the union of Barritone and Alinea. So one day when Alinea grew pregnant, Revina knew that revenge was close at hand, she felt the darkness flowing through her veins. The anger. ..Deep within the labyrinth of the dim, quiet, murky forest, unknown to the world, and alas, unnamed, a plump doe cried. Her stomach was rounded like a well-watered pumpkin, and streaked with dark sweat. Her sides heaved and the doe staggered, her knees buckling as she let out another raking cry, that brought tears streaming down her face. Beside her, stood a tall, proud-looking buck, his pelt a light maroon speckled with pale cream like a fawn. As his doe cried, the buck bent down, peering at her with harried eyes, his expression stricken. .."The herbs!" he gasped, a blank look of shock degenerating his composure as he stood there, "The witch mixed them up!" .."Barritone!" the doe yelled, panting for breath, "I need, I need shelter!" ..The buck jumped, suddenly alert he spied the jagged, gaping entrance to the cave. With a start, he nudged Alinea to her hooves, murmuring softly to her, "Just to the cave, that should be safe, come dear." ..With a heavy groan the ixi staggered to her feet and meekly she picked her way up the stony path and to the cave. Inside, she collapsed upon the carpet of thick, dank leaves, her chin hitting the floor, her eyes wide and panicked. ..Darkness descended upon the small forest. ..Ten years later, a young doe sat in the middle of the forest. The fateful night that she had entered the world was far from her mind. She sat in the clearing with the one forest ixi who had found her, mewling in the brush. Her friend Blasche perched beside her atop a rock. Together they gazed up at the stars. The young doe looked nothing like either of her parents, with sky blue, fine, silky fur, pale pink lateral stripes, three on each leg. Her cheeks were a silvery-raspberry hue, that gleamed metallically in the moonlight. She bore a star-like symbol on her forehead, and lilac streaks licked her ankles and up her lower legs like slender flames. Of the same color, a massive snowflake-like insignia decorated the middle of her back. Her hooves and horns were pure, gleaming silver, and a mop of dirty fawn-colored hair trailed down a long, stringy braid, the tip decorated with beads and feathers. ..Her friend, a young forest buck, was the purest white, his back flecked with chocolate and pale green rosettes like those of a cougar. Down his spine, was the unusual decoration of a row of raised feathers in alternating shades of brown gold and dark blue. His budding horns were gold, honed to sharp little points, the fur around them dark blue. His ears were colored with a dark blue cross at the center of each ear, and his ankles and tail too were colored the same shade. His eyes were thoughtful and golden, and his cheeks too were silvered. .."Have you ever heard of the tale of the great tree?" Blasche asked his friend. ..After she had been found, the young doe had been taken in by the forest ixi herd and had quickly befriended young Blasche. He was rather odd, unusual, distinctively dreamy and yet with a heart of the purest gold. He had been kind to her, and seemed a lot like her, so the young ixi had quickly befriended him. ..Kyla_Desmond responded with a sigh, "The great tree, what do you mean Blay?" .."Well," Blasche explained, "Marionna always used to tell us about the Yggdrasil, or the world tree." .."Oh, I know!" Kyla exclaimed, "The tree that's as tall as the stars and as wide as the sky!" ..Blasche nodded, "They say that a tribe of ixi live in the crown of the tree. It's branches are actually other trees, growing from it's trunk!" .."I know," Kyla grinned, "It's like a forest within the tree, and the tree within the forest." ..Blasche shrugged bashfully, "I'd love to go there, you and I. We could be the first forest ixi to climb the Yggdrasil. We would be famous! We could actually meet the Tribe of the Elementals up there!" .."Really?" Kyla smiled shyly, "I'd love to see the giant tree. Maybe we could jump from it and fly." .."You think?" Blasche asked uncertainly, "We'd fall like rocks!" .."Not if the Elementals taught us to fly," Kyla retorted. It was the young doe's greatest ambition to fly. She longed to fly. To soar with no earthly restrictions to hold her back. ..And something, something more tugged at the back of her mind. But whenever she tried hardest to grasp it, it slipped away. ..Now Blasche had matured into a fine young buck, a member of the herd's honorary guard, brave strong, yet inside, he was as sweet as nectar, although he tended to get more excitable around his best friend. Kyla two had grown into a beautiful young doe. She was the pride and beauty of the herd, her stunning coloration baffling all and awing them besides, her deep, twilight sky eyes filled with stars. She was turning fast into a bookish, stubborn, but placid young lady. She too had begun to start shaping up to her place in the clan, and her quick learning and nimble hooves had set her up for a front-line place as healer/hunter, an apprentice to the current healer, she also accompanied the herd's gathering and tracking patrols to find food. ..However, both young ixi had a secret that not one member of the herd was aware of. They had a plan. Around mid-summer, the pair would run out on the herd in the dark of night, forging a living in the depths of the forest, picking their way one hoof at a time, closer to the Yggdrasil. After three years of spending countless hours researching the subject, Blasche and Kyla had finally uncovered the location of the World Tree. The home of the elemental clan of high ixi. ..It was the middle of the night, tree frogs croaked throatily in the moss, and the trees whispered quietly in the moonless night. Kyla Desmond stood outside of her shelter, gazing up at the tiny, pinprick stars gleaming bitterly down from the pitch black sky. She waited in silence, ears pricked and alert, her braid wrapped around her long, curved horns. Her eyes gleaming in the darkness. At last he stepped out of his own small fir-bough abode. Blasche, his fur as white as the stars Kyla watched, the row of feathers along his back bristled, his sweeping tail of peacock plumes, tipped with the colors of the rainbow. Blasche lowered his head, and playfully butted his friend. Kyla snapped around, her expression changing from alarm to joy. ..Together they set off across the hills, towards their dream, towards the Yggdrasil. ..After months of traveling across the world, Kyla and Blasche were at last coming tantalizingly close to the Yggdrasil. The forest that they walked through now was of the biggest trees that either ixi had seen in their lifetime, massive redwoods towering up, as tall as the sky. These trees themselves seemed to be giants, but according to myth, they were like toothpicks before the Yggdrasil. Kyla bad Blasche were in euphoric moods, both ixi had spent the day traipsing across the forest, through grassy meadows and groves of massive redwoods with trunks as wide as ten normal trees. ..That evening they sat on the edge of a lake within the cone of a long-extinct volcano, admiring the cerulean waters, and the beautiful setting, and the taste of victory that was just beginning to form in their mouths. .."It's such a beautiful night!" Blasche grinned, flicking his tail feathers in the water so that droplets flew into the air, against the sunset sky. .."Just think!" Kyla exclaimed jubilantly, we're almost there! We might be flying in less than a week!" .."You might be flying you mean?" Blasche returned with a laugh. .."Never mind," Kyla shrugged, dipping her hoof in the placid water, "Let's go for a swim!" ..Blasche gave her a funny look, "A swim?" .."In the lake silly!" Kyla smiled, and with a running jump, she dove into the crystalline water. .."Wait up!" Blasche called, an soon he too had plunged into the water, his tail feathers floating on the surface as he stood in the shallows. ..It was a beautiful evening, the sky thick and heavy with a kind of sluggish humidity, beautiful purple clouds accenting the horizon. It was perfect, happily the pair swum out the the little island in the middle of the lake, like the pupil of a big blue eye, and they lay in the sand, fur sticking together, sand caking their features. Kyla began to laugh, and soon both were laughing as hard as they could, an especially rare sight for Blasche who was usually a quite serious young buck. They laughed together until they were dizzy, heads spinning, sides splitting in the sunset. ..Kyla grinned dizzily as she let the sand scratch her cheeks. With a smile, she tugged Blasche back into the cool water by the tips of his tail. He followed her in with a screech, his hooves scrabbling in the damp, clumpy sand as he fell back into the lake water. ..Blasche gave his friend a twisted smile as he looked at her. She gave him a wolfish grin before turning and diving beneath the retreating sapphire tide. The scent of honeysuckle blossoms hung on the air. Suddenly the peace was shattered by a gust of icy air. ..Blasche and Kyla snapped around, exchanging a quick glance, they gazed at the sky. The glorious sunset was steadily being engulfed by a bank of quickly-approaching clouds that blotted out the last beams of sunlight like the darkness itself was eating the sky. Kyla began to paddle frantically towards the opposite shore. Their retreats grew more and more frantic as a sonic boom of thunder rippled the air and another gust of frigid, rain-bitten air washed over them, this time bearing on it the hint of ozone that preceeds any bad storm. ..With a scream of wind in the giant trees that surrounded the small caldera, the clouds engulfed the sky. Lightning crackled and the wind pulled the water into the rocks. Kyla's head burst above the water, and she let out an appealing scream, her heart thumped frantically in her chest. .."BLASCHE!" she cried, swallowing water. ..Coughing and paddling frantically to stay afloat, she tried to propel herself out of the water to peer over the waves that seemed to increase in size as the wind grew stronger and stronger. .."Kyla!" Blasche yelled, his voice faint, and nearly obliterated by the crash of thunder above their heads. ..Kyla knew it was no use, but as she swam for her life, she began to sob, cries raking her body, she pleaded to the sky,to the great ixi of the Yggdrasil, for her friend and herself to be spared. They were so close, so close. ..But her cries were in vain. With a scream like a dying lion, a frenzied bolt of lightning stabbed at the island, electricity ran down the massive trunk, through the water streaming down the roots, and into the lake. Kyla's head exploded with pain, she zapped out, somersaulting down and down and down to the bottom of the lake. Stillness. Paralyzing stillness. Death. The End. ..Kyla awoke with her head feeling like a bowl of soda. Her brain buzzed, painfully. Her limbs ached, what had happened? It felt as though someone had taken a mallet to her legs. Her forehead seemed to pulse with a head-shattering pain, her veins pumped pain, her blood was pain. Creakily she lifted her head, she seemed to be laying on a large pad of moss. She was rather surprised that her whole body wasn't in a cast or the like. With a small groan, she pulled one leg out from her body. With a small groan, she staggered to her hooves. Looking around her, she found that she was within a small, musty, cave-like shelter. The inside walls smelled like damp tree bark, and a shaft of glorious sunlight filtered through the large, round circular door, that looked out upon what appeared a long, long walkway, ending at, what was perhaps a group of green tents. Of to the side of the walkway appeared to be a large column of dark stone. Poking her head outside, Kyla let out a scream of amazement, followed by a beast of a sob. ..Suddenly she remembered, everything. Blasche's terrified cries, the jolt of lighting, the fire that burned down her veins. Kyla collapsed on the surface of the smallest twig of the Yggdrasil. Yes, the Yggdrasil. The young doe had finally achieved her dream, she had made it to the world tree. But she never would have done it without her friend. Her friend who was now gone. Gone forever. Tears streaked her cheeks, she gazed down the massive trunk that was indeterminably wide. Leagues below was the redwood forests, the trees were indeed as small as pinheads beside the Yggdrasil. .."ITS NOT FAIR!" the young doe screamed, "IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!" .."Life isn't fair," came the unexpected response. ..Kyla spun around, angry tears in her eyes, "Of course it isn't fair! I've just lost my best friend!" she cried mournfully. ..The ixi standing behind her was a picture of beauty, she was a purer white than even Blasche, and her fur was decorated with a pattern that resembled a simplified swan, traced in ebony on her white fur, her hooves, tail, and ears all a sharp-granite grey, her eyes as black as night, and yet filled with the heavens. .."Hi!" The ixi smiled,"Welcome to the Home tree." ..Kyla nodded miserably. .."I'm Life," the strange ixi grinned foxily, "You can call me Liff though!" ..Kyla gasped, her mouth dropping open, "You're the life elemental!" ..Liff gave a twisted half-smile, "What of it, I'm just a little older than you, I can be mature when I want of course. I can control the throes of life, and accompany the strains of death, but I am, or once was at least, a normal ixi." ..Kyla nodded, she felt like crying again. She didn't think that she could go on without Blasche. .."You and your friend, well, you may find this hard to believe," Liff smiled nervously, "But, we, well, Aqua was watching when you got pulled into the lake, we, you, you're lucky she found you," the ixi stammered. .."I'm not so sure," Kyla frowned bitterly, "I'd rather die again than enjoy this without Blasche. He was the one who inspired me, he led us here, it was his dream above mine. Now he's gone." .."Gone?" Liff asked, "I think you'd better come see." ..Kyla stepped back up to her hooves and quietly followed Liff as the ixi made her way back into the room within the tree. Liff grabbed a pine-sap torch in her mouth, and, with a prod of her hoof, opened a hidden door. Kyla followed Liff down the cramped hallway, decorated with strange artifacts, and with many separate corridors branching off into the light outside. .Kyla lost track of how many turns and twists they took as they wound their way deeper and deeper within the World Tree. Finally they reached a large cavern where no light from the outside reached, and the air was still and as chill as death. The room was lit with several massive mushrooms that glowed in blues and greens in the darkness. At the center of the cave was a large, still pool of water that seemed to glow cerulean blue from some source deep below the surface. Laying on a pillar at the center of the lake, surrounded by all of the clan of elementals was Blasche, his body still and unmoving. The elementals stood around him in a circle, hooves half in the water, yet strangely suspended on their hind legs, front limbs branching together to form the points of a star as they circled him, chanting some strange rhythm. .."Blay!" Kyla yelled, the tears falling once more down her cheeks, she ran to her friend, breaking through the circle of elementals, she skipped over the water as though she were as light as air, and she stopped before her friend. She crouched before his unmoving body, tears falling freely onto his fur, her tears glistening on his cheeks. .."Blay, my best friend," she moaned quietly, stunned beyond comprehension, her heart numb, her head blank, "Blay, I'm here, at the world tree, like we planned. I'm here." ..She broke down, she shattered, she crouched above him in disbelief. At last she turned to Liff, "Do something!" she croaked. ..Liff merely shook her head. Kyla sat there until she could bear it no longer, and looking down upon her friend, she planted a small kiss on his cheek, and, without a second glance, she ran from the cavern, not caring which direction her hooves took her, only wanting to escape. .."Kyla, wait!" Liff called. ..When at last Liff had caught up to her friend, she persuaded Kyla to return, "Please Kyla, you need to see what you've done!" ..Resignedly, Kyla followed, determined not to look anyway. ..This time, as soon as they had rounded the turn, something knocked the breath out of her. Something was squeezing her so tight that she could hardly draw breath. Then she saw the gleam of white fur, she smelled the forest ixi scent. .."BLASCHE!" she screamed in delight, jumping up and down she hugged him as hard as she could, jumping up and down in joy. .."KYLA!" Blasche cried, echoing her amazement, "What happened!" ..Liff grinned broadly, "Come in, and we'll explain everything!" ..As it turned out, the two ixi were the fated pair of legend, the two supreme elementals. After their death, the other elementals had no choice but to infuse them with all of the elements to save them, making Kyla and Blasche both elemental, and immortal. The last element that Blasche had needed to be revived was love, and Kyla's intense bond of friendship had saved him. Some coding elements from sunnyneo. Character and design copyright to me.

MORE STATES NEED THIS COMMON SENSE BICYCLE LAW Bill Would Allow Bicyclists to Legally Roll Through Stop SignsIdaho has had this law on the books for 27 years with no increase in bicycle-related accidents. By Bill Schneider, 1-14-09 I. Like this story? Get more! Sign up for our free newsletters. My new pickup does not get the mileage that I would like. It is a wonderful truck, but the mileage could be better, but due to needs for power in towing and comfort in my old age I hate to give it up. Therefore i would like you to add these types of vehicles to your "passin' everyone " law. In fact, if we just did away with stop signs altogether then we wouldn't have the fuel loss of stop and go driving. Perhaps this would force OPEC to reconsider their thoughts on lowering production levels and increasing fuel costs. But seriously, Idaho is ahead of the curve in this one regard, and Montana would do well to emulate their approach. I've bicycled in Idaho before and after the law passed without noticing much difference. The situations where you can roll signs (or signals) are such that the law doesn't matter that much: there's no one there to enforce it, eh? I remember being surprised to learn about the current law at some point; oh, what I've been doing is legal, that's nice. I think the main benefit is that if drivers know the law (ha!) they'll be less likely to stress out over seeing "those damn bicyclists breaking the law," and mind their own business. I've been aware of the Idaho law(s) for some time. Adopting something similar here in Montana would definitely be a step (er, pedal stroke) in the right direction, but what I'd much rather see is the legalization of riding two abreast. I believe that Montana and Wyoming may be the only remaining states which still mandate single-file riding on undivided roads and highways. My normal feeling about bicycles with regard to the traffic law is that the less bikes are mentioned, the better everyone is. Experienced cyclists don't need special considerations- the law already does a good job looking out for them and still allows for reasonable traffic flow. However, I do support this addition, as it does help keep all traffic flowing smoothly. I've ridden in Boise a couple of times and was pleased to learn that riding in the manner that I felt most safe was also legal. And as far as the red light law goes, how many times have you ridden to a light that does not recognize you? At least with a stop, then ride through law we'll be legal to, again, do what is safest. If people question me about rolling through a stop sign on a bicycle I explain that from the perspective of a cyclist it's sometimes better to be a moving target than a sitting duck. Many seem to understand. This bill is a good idea. I've got mixed emotions about the "stop and then go" traffic SIGNAL law. If motor vehicles are waiting for a green light, I'm happy to wait with them. Or better yet, time my arrival at the intersection to coincide with the green light. When cyclists proceed on through, with all those motorists watching, it's sure to stir up resentment and hostility. I prefer friendly "vibes" from those people in their 4000-pound steel missiles, when I'm sharing the road with them! (And as mr dna said, "Experienced cyclists don't need special considerations..." Common sense goes a long way.) (If Montana is like Idaho, I'm confident one of the reasons for poor showing by bike advocates is... we are a fairly independent and self-sufficient lot, and in these parts, cyclists are very apolitical. They're out riding, instead of attending committee hearings, etc.) Y'all ride careful now, ya heah? Dear State and Local Law Makers, I would like to urge you to support the proposed Montana House Bill 68 which will change traffic laws for bikers. The law would make it legal to treat stop signs as yield signs for bikers. This is also far more convenient for riding on back roads where there is less traffic. The law will also permit bikers to proceed through a red light after coming to a complete stop. This is essential when a biker comes to a sensor light which is not set off by a biker.. It makes customary biking legal. Further, the law encourages bike riding which has several obvious benefits on the community including decreased use of fossil fuels, preventative health care, addressing parking issues, etc. This law has been in effect in our neighbor state of Idaho. According to Idaho's bicycle and pedestrian coordinator: "Idaho has had this law on the books since 1982, and it has never been controversial nor have there been any attempts to change or overturn it. It has not caused any increase in bicycle-related accidents, nor does Idaho have a higher rate of bicycle accidents than other states." Best Regards, Of course, from the perspective of cyclists, the bill is attractive. Having to stop when there's no traffic is a pain in the butt, when you are providing your own locomotion. I can see how it's a pointless exercise. (I don't ride enough to really call myself a cyclist, but when I come to a stop sign, I usually stop.) On the other hand, from the perspective of a motorist, it seems like this bill is allowing cyclists to have it both ways: they want vehicles to share the road with them, but they don't want to adhere to the same rules of the road. You can't have it both ways. The reality of it is, the bill would have about as much teeth as the recent measure passed in Missoula that lowers the priority of marijuana-possession rousts. Everyone's already doing it anyway, what's the overlay of legislation going to change? Curb, gutter, sidewalks and decent shoulder of the road area for bicycles should be a requirement where we have pedestrians and bicycles using the roadway. Kids are routinely bussed to school because it is unsafe for them to walk to and from schools. Sidewalks and bike rights of way may even pay for themselves when you consider the cost of bussing kids to schools if they could walk or ride a bicycle to get there. It may even make a dent in obese kids and their health. The following was included in the "Letter To Jon Sonju": The law will also permit bikers to proceed through a red light after coming to a complete stop. This is essential when a biker comes to a sensor light which is not set off by a biker. This is NOT included in the Montana law, the law applies only to stop signs. Why so few riders don't purchase turn and stop signals for their bikes I'll neber get. I just purchased bike turn signals from and they worked great. A no brainer. Hmmm . . . maybe because those lights cost more than many commuter's bikes. Although I don't bike much (I'm not suicidal enough to ride up 93), I fully support this bill. Now I just want the same rule for pulling a horse trailer. The stop and go is hard on the horses too. :) I'm guessing that's not happening any time soon . . . There is a thin line between an exception and a precedent. What's the next law bicyclists won't have to follow? Will sidewalks be fair game before long? Where will it end? I also agree with Bozone biker about the stoplights not detecting bicyclists, however, this bill is not the way to address that problem. I bicycle commute and have no personal issues with stopping at stop signs. If somebody were to conduct a study, I am convinced it would be shown that most traffic fatalities involving bicycles result from the deceased cyclist having foolishly attended to the laws. Running stop signs and stop lights are clearly the next step in our continuous striving for more convenience... Your point, while simple, ignores one piece of logic. Bikes and motor vehicles, are not the same. As someone who has commuted by bike for most of my life I can tell you with certainty that a cyclist is safest when moving. I feel vulnerable when I am stopped. The exceptions provided in this bill are similar to laws that allow lane splitting for motorcycles, something that on the surface seems counterintuitive but yields its reason when given some thought. If the bill does not pass but gets motorists and bicyclists talking about what the current laws are, then I feel that that is an improvement. What I am most disturbed about is that I found out about this today. If Rep. Hamilton is dismayed that none of the cycling community showed up to support it, then he should have done a better job at letting people know about it. I work at a bike shop in Bozeman and I have three blogs dedicated to cycling in Montana, and I only found out about it this morning. That's frustrating. But I'd like to point out that the idea of treating vehicles differently, based on their differing characteristics and capabilities, is not without precedent. In the world of boating, the maneuvering rules for an 800-foot oil tanker are different than they are for a sailboat or a taxiing sea plane. No one seems to find that strange, or at least I never heard any complaints during my mariner days. When you consider that what makes a bicycle maneuverable and responsive is being in motion, there's a logical reason for allowing bikes to stay in motion as long as possible that just doesn't apply to cars. I would think most people could accept a distinction along those lines. As a long-time dedicate transportation driver (and occasional cyclist in many parts of America) I fully endorse the soon to be announced stop SIGN law for cars and trucks. It's a blessing to not have to stop at every sign. It costs this country huge amounts of money in fuel every year to hit the gas pedal after each stop and now I will be able to roll right through them. This will be a huge savings for me and all drivers. Bikeboy, if it's too difficult for you to pedal from each stop then maybe you should take the bus. For obvious reasons, I also teach my young children this habit, as well as hand signalling (which they love for some reason), and since they don't know any different, they just think it's what you do, despite witnessing countless people on bikes rolling through stop signs. When they ask about this, I just say, "Bad idea." or "Silly squirrel." (I use flattened Missoula squirrels as "teaching moments.") What a waste of legislative time this proposed law is. What a great way to cement the division between bikers and the already uptight gotta-get-there drivers I have to deal with every week. What a great way to subvert my parenting with a silly exception as I try to teach my children safety and protect them from their own childish judgement. "OK little Billy, if you think it's safe, just run those stop signs like all those smart adults." If adults want to ignore an unenforced law out of convenience, knock yourself out, but I remember something about bicyclists having the same "rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES" as drivers. Can cyclists claim the same rights when they don't want the same responsibilities? Dump this proposed law. Geez. Brink Kuchenbrod MontanaOutside.com Rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES. You have the right, and responsibility to do the right thing, regardless of the law. What's most remarkable about the discussion is the amount of latent hostility toward people choosing a virtuous, and vulnerable mode of transportation, and endorsing the legal expression of common sense. Motorists are not exactly known for their strict adherence to traffic laws. You all always obey those MAXIMUM SPEED LIMITS, right? Don't forget to explain that to your kids. If you're on a bike it makes little to no sense to stop if you don't have to. If it's icy out, particularly if you going up a hill, it makes no sense to stop. If you're pulling a trailer with animals in the back of it that will be jolted by repeated stopping and starting it makes no sense to stop. If you're driving an ancient and moody stick shift, it makes no sense to stop. That doesn't mean you blast through the intersection. You slow down to 3 or 4 miles an hour, so you can stop immediately.That said, I don't think we should entirely redefine what stop signs mean. A better tact would be to quit putting stop signs on every corner and to use a few more yield signs instead. Slowing to 3-4 mph at a stop sign often is _safer_ than coming to an absolute stop. Cycling is inherently different than driving, and there should be some difference in rules. Cylists do not have all the rights of drivers: for instance, a driver does not have to drive as 'far right as practical', nor should they. This is proposed change seems sensible, yet education and respect on the part of all road users is a critical component. Let's keep the conversation going and continue to work on making transportation better. Montana can be a leader. Reasons why cyclists should be given the option to yield: Bicyclists have better awareness of surroundings (better field of vision, higher than cars, no windows/stereo/cell phone obstructing hearing); Bicyclists can avoid collisions better (sharper turning radius, much less width, less speed and weight to manage, can become flush with the side of the road almost instantly, can stop in a shorter distance); Bicycles are much safer to the public (much less momentum, and much more forgiving of a physical structure so much less dangerous to others); Bicyclists have to expend their own energy to start and stop (it's a courtesy to let them pass just as it is to yield to someone carrying something heavy or bulky); Cyclists should be able to avoid the pollution of stopped cars as much as possible (cyclists are breathing harder and not polluting. It’s fair to be spared from this harm. Pollution tends to be highest at stops); Frequent stopping is associated with long-term chronic knee problems (compounded by the use of "track" or single-speed bikes, or any bicycle used in a low gear); Most cyclists responsibly "go thru" stop signs at present (showing that the law simply doesn't work for reasonable people); Places that provide for bicyclists have much lower bicycle fatality rates than the USA (e.g., Netherlands, about 1/13 our fatality rates per mile travelled. One reason is that cyclists are given a head start at stops). Fortunately, Joseph, I live in Idaho where cyclists can indeed roll appropriately slowly though an intersection! It's been a pretty good law down in these parts for 27 years now. It's embraced by cyclists and tolerated by motorists. The Montana law won't affect me too much personally, one way or t'other. (I've ridden my motorcycle in Montana on numerous occasions, and driven a motor vehicle from time to time. Never have ridden a bicycle up your way.) But I'd like to see it for my brotha and sista cyclists. (And "difficulty" isn't an issue. Regular cyclists don't suffer from lack of fitness, unlike so many people who are slaves to their motor vehicles.) Have a great day! What you're leaving out is the substantial portion of the population that would bike if it was practical and safe. I work directly off the interstate. It is possible for me to get there on a bike, but I don't trust the enough to bike the Reserve/I90 underpass. There are plenty of brave fools who bike up Reserve, Brooks and 93, but I suspect there are more who won't because of the danger. And you're suggesting California stops are going to improve safety..? Concerning the comments about cyclists not stopping at stop signs and then being hit by oncoming traffice, this would clearly be the fault of the cyclist who even though he/she wouldn't be required to come to a dead stop, they would still be required to yield to oncoming traffic. Bill Another good idea brought to you by Idaho, the state that loves business... Few people on bikes stop for stop signs, no matter the state, no matter the law. If you legalize it, then of course it doesn't change the number of collisions. Nothing changed. If we're going to update the traffic code for convenience and let bikers run stop signs, then let's let drivers speed when they happen to be in a hurry. They do it anyway, so why is it illegal? Legalizing speeding when you happen to be in a hurry won't increase the number of collisions because... drivers already do it. Can you see where this is going? The proponents of this are baffling. I don't believe they've thought about it much beyond, "Geez, I wouldn't get that guilty feeling every time I run a stop sign on my bike. And riding a bike is so noble. And Idaho is so cool. And my knees hurt." Again, if adults want to ignore an unenforced law out of convenience, go for it. And again, if you want all the rights of cars, then assume all the responsibilities of cars, whether or not you care to obey the letter of the law. Excepting bikes from stopping trivializes traffic laws (see second paragraph above), offends drivers, and could potentially inspire anti-bike legislation. Does that really help cyclists? There's just no need to clog the legislature with this nonsense. "Yes, little Billy, it's legal to run stop signs on your bike, but it's not a good idea." Maybe Adventure Cycling would be willing to help with that one on the day the grade schools teach "Stop, look, and listen." for walking across streets. What do you say? If police increased patrols and cracked down on bicyclists who didn't come to a complete stop (in your state, not mine), bicyclists would genuflect as you seem to want them to do, or else get better at looking around for enforcement. But public safety would not be improved, nor would the orderliness of society markedly increase. We would just be wasting a lot of enforcement resources and some of the cyclists' energy. You don't sound like somebody who knows what it's like to ride a bike. If you do, and you still want an obsessive adherence to the letter of unnecessary laws as part of some campaign to make the world a better place, well, I guess I'm glad we live in different states, at least. I must admit that I'm surprised to read your comments and I don't understand your concerns. I admit this bill really isn't directed at expert cyclists like yourself. It's mainly focused on encouraging commuting among cyclists who currently hesitate to do so for a variety of reasons, including the effort and time it takes to get somewhere. I think anything we can do to encourage the wider use of bicycles is a plus. As far as safety goes, bicyclists will still be responsible for avoiding accidents, no different that a driver honoring a yield sign, and of course, they have the strong incentive of being "the bug." I think Idaho's 27 years of experience with this law seals the deal. There has been no increase in accidents, and Idaho may have a loower per-capita rate than other states, but that's impossible to determine because of different ways of keeping records. Also, there has been no controversy, no attempts to change or overturn the bill, and no opposition from police departments. I even have an email from a police officer who went out of his way to support the law. I believe that speaks very loudly. Bill no one is arguing that bikers will be allowed to "blaze" through stop signs and suddenly ignore all traffic laws. not even close. that isn't what the bill says or the law states that we are supposedly discussing here. so that group can stop ranting anytime now. in my neighborhood there are no traffic signs at all and we all trust drivers to understand and follow the "right of way" rule. talk about vague and dangerous. all this law would allow is for a biker who has already slowed to a near stop at an intersection to continue on if safe to do so. bikers do it ALL THE TIME (ooo, i know that just grills some of you, get over it) and aren't being run over left and right. where bikes do actually get into accidents is in traffic and at difficult intersections, not when rolling through a stop sign with no apparent traffic. let's move on now. how about that new President we just got! I ride a bicycle. When I approach an intersection - whether it have lights, or signs, or no controls at all - I carefully look for potential hazards in both directions, and oncoming, before proceeding. For you see, even if I have a green light "protecting" me, or a stop sign that side traffic should honor... if I get smashed, I will lose, and it really won't matter what the law was, or who was right or wrong. The laws of physics always trump the laws of our legislature or city council. jcc73 - yeah, how about that president! I didn't vote for him, but he's my president, and he gives a GREAT pep talk, and I pray and wish for his success!! I've taken the time to read all points and none yet has provided a valid reason for a biker's rights to disobey the simplest and most basic of traffic laws. You can't have it both ways. Just because it's convenient doesn't make it right. These points might be simple, but genius lies in simplicity. "Genius"? You're too modest. Nonetheless, here's the very simple reason why the : cars shouldn't roll through stop signs because it's too difficult to tell what's around you in a car -- you can't hear well, your sight is obstructed at various angles, plus, if you make a mistake and roll through when you shouldn't, a car has more momentum, will be harder to stop, and will do more damage if it fails to stop in time. Bikers, on the other hand, can see and hear in all directions and, even if rolling through, can take fast action to stop or make room for a car to pass. Not to mention the fact that bikers have an incentive to be more careful than drivers because, as bikeboy points out, in an accident with a car, they lose. Kind of for the same reason that car drivers have to be more careful and more defensive than 18-wheeler drivers, bikers have to be more careful than cars. A genius would be able to see this, I think. You can read his blog on the subject at Cheers, Carl in Vermont You'd be able to see what you're doing if your head wasn't in your @**. In nearly all your posts, on varying issues, it appears that you're trying to have a battle of whits. I hate to be the one to tell you, but you've brought a sandwich to a gun fight. Do you have gainful employment or are you a professional Komputer Kowboy? (-; (Who is finally and predictably trying to turn this interesting thread into a schoolyard insult match.) Don't forget who started the name calling (the evidence is found above). Sutton, Not to fear, I know how to work the internets. It appears you're exactly what you appear to be - another outsider looking in. East Coast Condescension only goes so far 'round these parts. Nice to see you've chronicaled your life for the world to view. Hopefully someone cares. If I'm cycling towards an intersection that has parked cars up to the corners, trees or a tight curve, it is often safer to keep slight momemtum. I have been in situtations that if I come to a complete stop, by the time I start up again a car going, say 40 mph, can come out of nowhere, come upon me too quickly, and cause a crash. How about this for another law you may break by 'parking' at a stop sign: since you need to reclip into pedals, sometimes slip between, or off, gears, and slowly accelerate from your dead stop, you can easily be claimed to be impeding traffic from all sides of the intersection. When the "vehicular cyclist's" chain falls off at the stop sign when they put the stress of a start-up on it, and they become a sitting duck for fast and massive traffic in the middle of the intersection, maybe the last thought of their life might be that they should have rolled through that empty intersection when they safely could have. People here are sick and tired of his pitiful crying and wish he'd get a real life. He makes all bicyclists here in our area look bad but he seems not to care about anybody except his poor pitiful self. Look folks, if you have a legitimate complaint .. then let the people know and then move on and do something constructive about it. If you keep crying and carrying on about bad bicycle laws and fail to follow through and make things better, then it makes all bicyclists look like whining idiots. There you can view the facts and the laws, and make your own informed decision, instead of listening to petty name calling by a public official or two here. Sir .. with all due respect .. it was a highly visible Stop sign and bicyclist's in the State of Michigan have a legal duty to stop. Our community has spoken loud and clear that bicyclists who complain about the laws .. but then disregard the laws themselves .. are not very well appreciated here. Moreover, the individual of whom I speak has reduntantly harped (ad-nauseum) over the course of 2 years about the actual 'placement' of the highly visible Stop sign, and fully deserves the "idiot" nametag for not discerning how selfish, narcissistic, and hypocritical he appears. I wonder what the other readers of this forum think about a bicyclist totally disregarding a Stop sign and blowing through it directly in front of a Police cruiser? Moreover, ..What would be your opinion, sir .. if somebody had been driving a car and had blown that same stop sign and killed a bicyclist? That's the point here .. the actual intent of the Stop sign. It was clearly visible and bicyclists in Michigan have a duty to stop. BTW: You and your forum buddies, sir, have repeatedly accused of being a public official .. but I most definitely am NOT! Those repeated accusations, along with numerous personal attacks and name-calling against me by your forum buddies .. is why I quit posting there. Finally, sir .. I see absolutely no good reason for you to be bad-mouthing the community of Ludington or bad-mouthing Ludington's duly elected public officials. It serves no useful purpose in these posts here .. and further reflects upon your poor judgement. In Michigan, we have a saying: "If you seek a pleasant peninsula, look around you". If you seek 'repeated accusations, numerous personal attacks and name-calling', Disarm, look around your posts. Self-awareness is a virtue few involved in government possess. If the casual reader seeks the truth, or at least a debatable point one can discuss civilly, look around the website You, sir, have not only ineffectively argued your side throughout this last year, you have stupidly moved your argument to a discussion where the amount of people who think having "Idaho stops" is a good idea outnumbers those who don't by nearly three to one. Which means that most here would think you are the idiot, just like most do back in Ludington-- but for different reasons. No surprise seeing you here! I actually expected it .. because actively enlisting his forum buddies into his disgreement has proven to be typical behavior that we have seen on all the other forums. His inability to reach across and understand disagreement is why he felt compelled to start his own forum. That type of 'gang' mentality is why I quit that forum .. and no other reason (but you all can think what you want). Many people in this community disagree with his tactics, as he has been kicked off this community's most popular local forum at least 4 times. I have been doing a ton of research into the bicycle laws and that is how I found this forum. But again, you all can think whatever you want. Knock yourselves out thinking up whatever cause & effect your collective minds can dream up. The facts of the situation speak louder than your disagreement with me. The particular bicyclist of whom I speak received a civil citation because he disregarded a Stop sign directly in front of an oncoming police cruiser. He attempted to envoke a loophole in the law to deny responsibility. Ultimately, ..he was found guilty in a court of law. Justice prevailed. So, I welcome you to speak your peace here all you want my dearest Edie. My opinion remains that he has nobody to blame but himself. Instead of expending so much time, money, and effort focused upon attempting to discredit local officials (and citizens) about the legalities of stop sign placement, ..perhaps mr rotta should instead utilize his energies trying to change Michigan's (bicycle) Stop sign law to match the Idaho's 'Stop-as-Yield' law. I checked the Michigan Law and you are 100% correct. A bicycle rider has the same duties in Michigan as vehicles. It is against the law in Michigan to run a stop sign. I visited the link Tom Rotta provided. Somebody named xlfd (my guess it is probably Rotta) has copied some of these posts and invited people to come over here to say "Hi" to Disarm. yeah right LOL. That is like a Nouth Korean walking across the border into Sorth Korea and asking to borrow some sugar!! Imagine that! Anyway, somebody responded by asking how Disarm can find the time to post here but said not a single word about Tom Rotta having 4 posts to Disarms 2 posts. That sure looks like a double standard to me and shows evidence of what Disarm said about being 'ganged' upon at that forum. Did anybody else notice Tom Rotta arguing semantics here by talking about 25 feet away from the cross walk. Disarm made a very good point by questioning why Tom Rotta is arguing the semantics (25 foot displaced?) of his ticket instead of using his effort, time, and money to help change the law to make it legal for bicyclists to yield. I agree that arguing semantics does appear selfish, narcissistic, and hypocritical. Disarm did not say you are that Tom Rotta, but it does appear that way based upon what I have seen here and on the link you provided. Nice to hear you are in favor of Idaho's "stop as yield" law, but it seems to contradict a lot of your past statements. One of my points has always been that there is no law or succession of laws here in Michigan that says a bicycle (which is specifically defined not to be a vehicle) must stop at a stop sign, or defines how a bicycle "stops". There are laws, MCL 257.648, that unequivocally state that a bicyclist needs to determine before "stopping" if a "stop" can be made in safety. I've listed ad nauseum several safety concerns a bicyclist faces whenever he stops on the road indiscriminately. There are laws instructing how a bicyclist is supposed to interpret specific traffic control devices, without nary a word about a stop sign. You linearly interpret a car's driver stopping at a stop sign as doing his duty. He has not; he has obeyed the sign, as specifically stated by the law, and ceased movement. His DUTY is to make sure he has the right of way before he proceeds after having stopped. A cyclist has a duty to also observe the right of way rules, as you rightly point out. The process he does so at an intersection or at a crosswalk is never explained by Michigan law. Practice and common sense finds the safest and the most conducive for traffic flow for everyone on the street is for a cyclist to proceed through an intersection after they can gauge there is no conflicting traffic for them. Usually, they do not have to come to a full "stop" to ascertain this in our neck of the woods. As the subject article above pointed out, most states do require bicyclists to stop at stop signs. That is why states like Montana have tried to change the law to match Idaho's law, because Montana's residents understand the requirement to stop. In Michigan, bicycles have the same duty as vehicles do to stop. To assume that a bicycle is parked if they stop is a false arguement because a bicycle is not considered to be parked when they stop at a sign the same as a motorcycle is not considered to be parked when they stop at a stop sign. You paint a poor picture of Ludington Michigan when you openly accuse Ludington public officials of violating several laws in your case. The basic fact in your case is that you ran a stop sign in front of an oncoming police cruiser. You received a ticket for your infraction. You were determined guilty in a court of law. You spent time in jail for your civil infraction. Just ignore Disarm. He is not worth all your time. Appears he is obsessed with you, if he would track you down via a google search. Disarm grow up! Uh, excuse me, but it was Tom Rotta that copied posts from here over on the torch and and invited his friends to come over here. I found this site in my bicycle law research. Try typing in "bicycle stop, Idaho Law" yourself and you will find this site listed there. Get a grip on reality and stop being so obsessively ignorant. John Hall, I would keep this in Ludington but Tom Rotta brought it here by accusing Ludington's officials of committing illegal acts against him. Tom was found guilty in a court of law and spent time in jail. He has nobody to blame but himself. Concerned Ludington Citizen, There are a lot of folks who feel exactly as you do. Many people have complained about his negative attitude, a lot more than he is willing to admit. He has been kicked off the Talks forum at least 4 times. Huckleberry Found, He would mess his britches if he found out that you are a real life clown. Hardy Har Har. I thank you for your support. Now I see what you've been doing on the computer all day. Clean your room right now, it's a mess with all those Pokemon Cards scattered about. When you are done, don't get back on here and chat with your boyfriends, come in to mommy's room and rub some oil on my back. I will put parental controls on this computer if you don't. You were 100% right! They are going to be coming out of the woodwork now. This truly is Tom Rotta's typical mode of operation. Whenever he finds disagreement he brings in his internet friends (blind mice) to disrupt the discussion. Its just as you told me, he has done the same thing on LT and continues to do the same thing on the torch. Check out the torch, they are really laying it on today. Mr Tom Rotta, This is so typical of you. What is wrong with you? Get a life Disarm. Grow up Disarm! Just knock off all of your games Kevin. Kevin, when are ever going to just stop? Also, the comment thread has been shut down because of blatant abuse of this forum by one or more people using numerous names and sock puppeting to dominate the discussion.

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Asian / Australasian Tour updated 22 Jun 2007 - punters comment updated 10 July 2008 - added Mysterex articleupdated 8 Jan 2010 - full review and full edit, added Auckland Star cdr - 2nd gen - Sound 3+ - 94min 2nd gen - Tracks 26 ** missing White Riot - upgrade to master wanted (badly!) If any evidence is needed that The Clash in early 82 could be as vital, exciting and explosive as anytime in their history then a listen to the recording of this concert should surely suffice. Evidence too surely in view of Topper’s sacking that “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. The energy, brutality, intensity, excitement of the atmosphere in the hall is captured by the recording and it’s obvious why this concert had such an impact on those lucky enough to be there. Essential. Sydney Press Conference In keeping with the frequently surreal nature of The Clash’s tour of Asia and Australia the band stopped over on their way to New Zealand to do a press conference in Sydney to boost ticket sales; Joe in full on ranter mode held forth in the Mammals section of the Museum of Applied Arts & Sciences! Under the headline ‘Mammals babble at the Flying Sydney Press Conference’ NZ Rolling Stone stated ‘Joe Strummer’s performance is an immensely amusing one. This wasn’t the usual Deadly Serious (Dig a Hole) affair as uninformed journalists ask the subjects inane questions, but a holy rollin’ one-man stand up, political flag waving harangue by a man who if he delivers one 10th as good live on stage must be a performer to leave others flatfooted! The Clash’s Sydney press conference was a real occasion’ Joe reportedly didn’t allow any other member of the band or indeed the assembled press to get a word in edgeways. ‘If we’d wanted to make money in Japan, we would’ve played Budokan like Bob Dylan’ Joe insisted. ’30,000 Nips jumping in the air, throw yer money on the plane and bingo! that’s rock’n’roll! We played 9 times in as many days, and never to more than 3000 people. And that’s nine days of expenses, and all’ He also added bizarrely ‘We’re here because we’re exciting. We jump about, wiggle our bums and there’s nothing wrong with that!” Auckland Topper’s reputation meant a 4 hour customs examination before the band were allowed into Auckland on February 4th. Only one show was originally planned in Auckland and Wellington but due to demand the band added an extra Auckland show and a Christchurch concert. The first Auckland show was certainly a memorable one and thanks to a ghetto blaster smuggled in by a fan a decent audience recording documents the event. Many thanks to Simon Kay for circulating a second generation tape via Jeff Dove and for providing press scans and photos (links opposite) and the recollections of Damian Holt of the gig. See also the 2008 recollections from the NZ shows on the New Zealand Music and Culture website (links opposite) ‘Rat Patrol From Fort Bragg - The Clash in New Zealand - February 1982’. Many thanks also to Steve Andrews for his recollections and photos of the Wellington concert and of meeting the band there. Punk was already well established in NZ by 1982 and “The Clash’s delight in musical adventure and dance had already been taken on board by Kiwi groups.” Apart from a visit by The Ramones in 1980 The Clash were the first major “punk” group to tour New Zealand and the expectation and excitement was sky high when the band hit the Auckland stage. The band though were shocked to see a large local contingent of skinheads many with Nazi insignia. Fighting presumably between the different factions is evident from the recording. Mick asks for the fighting to stop but Joe says “That’s it punch him one!” The gig was well covered by the local media (see links).Journalist, Colin Hogg who also interviewed Mick the next day said The Clash were “rough, raw and exciting”. He said the audience were largely awestruck by the “long awaited punk gods”. Roadies were kept busy “plucking fans from the human vice that developed between the crowd and the stage and shepherding them to safety backstage” Mick “We’ll do anything to prevent anyone getting hurt”. The band would have been delighted by Hogg’s statement “Brand New Cadillac is as close as anyone has got to the original rock and roll feel in recent years” Arriving in the summer the band loved New Zealand (and Australia), the weather, the scenery, the beaches. Joe explained why to Roz Reines in the!” Having declared 1982 the Year of the Body. Joe was physically and verbally active at all times to the point of mania on the tour. NZ Rolling Stone recounted how Joe had been up at 7am the morning after his arrival, asking questions about local culture and politics and busking in the town’s main street with a ukulele bought specially for the purpose. Back at the hotel Kosmo asked about the busking “How d’you make out? “Terrible!” replied Joe. New Zealand TV interview video The master uncut rushes from the NZBC Shazam interview of the band members on the platform of Auckland railway station last only 5 minutes but are very entertaining. It begins with a brief clip of Joe on his recently purchased ukulele singing Shenandoah. Amongst the responses to the TV interviewer’s questions Joe says, “I like to live with a paradox, everyone’s life is a paradox. We’re not good at making life easy for ourselves “ Can you change anything through music? Joe “You can change something through music. Music is what people are turning onto for the last 30/40 years not books or art, so we’ve got more chance than anyone to change things” Paul says “I think our spirit alone changes a lot of things for people we go on the stage in Japan for example, maybe a lot of them don’t understand what we’re saying but by the mere spirit they understand what we’re on about” Joe “You think we’re just masturbating but we’re actually affecting people we’d play for old age pensioners (if they’d let us!” says Mick) but we don’t have to - the Stones have taken care of that now!” Ironically in hindsight Joe adds “If the band splits up because you can’t keep it together it’s like you’ve fooled a lot of people, wasted a lot of people’s time. We keep going because we are the Real McCoy, we’re not gonna just fold up. We’re gonna be here, continue and get harder and rougher and tough, dreader than dread!” Joe then assisted with a songbook and accompanied by Topper on clicked fingers and slapped thighs (!) attempts the blue grass standard “Who's Gonna Shoe Your Pretty Little Foot” Julian Temple used clips from the video for Future is Unwritten. Venue 3000 people were packed into the Logan Campbell Centre, described as a joyless concrete blockhouse renowned for its poor sound and situated in the middle of the Epsom Showgrounds. It’s still in use today. Promoted by Stewart MacPherson as part of his Superock series, a second Auckland show was added on the Saturday due to extra demand. The Clash is billed to perform the entire two hour show without a support band. They come on an hour late, and perform a ninety minute plus song set with an emphasis on the ‘punk era’ songs. “The first image I saw inside was the backdrop, the New York City skyline. The gear was set up and they had the police accident/emergency tape and road markers with Do Not Cross.” Ben Staples remembering the first night in 2001. A Many thanks to Simon Kay for bringing into circulation a 2nd generation tape via Jeff Dove. It’s a great shame the master tape does not yet circulate as despite being recorded on a smuggled in ghetto blaster the sound is full and not distant with all the instrumentation and vocals captured well. It’s a full on sound with guitars upfront and raw. Recorded presumably on a C90 tape the tape cuts out abruptly at the end of Police On My Back missing the final song, White Riot. Inevitably there is a loss of crispness and detail in the circulating recording resulting from 2 analogue transfers from the master. Despite the resultant degree of flatness this is still a very enjoyable tape capturing the electric atmosphere and a great Clash performance. The Clash at the Logan Campbell Centre - Rapid Magazine, NZ As the Morricone intro is cut, Joe in classic Strummer style announces to the tightly packed, highly volatile audience, “Alright, alright. It’s quite a shock for us to see this here like back home. We’ve just come from Japan where they sit way back in the back, in the back of the BACK!” The band then launch into a charged London Calling, feeding off the energy and mania of the audience. The sound and performances tonight are raw, fast and fierce. The extended improvisations of 81 (and Japan) are largely missing, and with a heavy emphasis on songs from the “punk years” the band were surely out to prove to the many punk fans in the audience and accusations of “sell-out” that they were the original and (still) the best. Midway through a powerful One More Time Joe is unhappy not every one in the audience is going ape! “What’s the matter over there, you came here to pose?” The recording captures the live Clash sound mix but with some distortion on the peaks and there are plenty on a pumped up Safe European Home. Joe is in top form scatting as the music drops down and Mick sings backing vocals Each song bangs into the next. Mick is pumped up too delivering a fine vocal and lead guitar on Train In Vain. Topper adds another, this time extra long “drum solo” intro to The Leader. “Right Ginger!” quips Joe in reference to the Cream drummer. It’s an exceptional performance with terrific guitar fills from Mick, and Joe is unusually word perfect! The band are taut & honed from the Japanese dates. Topper then takes it straight into Bankrobber with the audience clapping along. Joe stops the band early on “OK will the owner. Shut up and listen to me a minute! Will the owner of this piece of phlegm on my stomach like to come and retrieve it OK kick it off!” Mick shares lead vocals and Joe works the audience to get them to sing backing harmonies. Topper holds it altogether tremendously as they stretch out impressively. It’s all going off in the audience and Mick tries to calm things down “Woah! No fuckin’ fighting, we didn’t come here to watch that. There’s loads of that where we come from. Dancing’s in, fighting’s out” “Fuck‘in shit hot” shouts one appreciative punter before Joe goes “Don’t you ever stop…” and the band launch into the Magnificent Seven. It features a funky riff instrumental section and is sharp, tight and very effective. “Mr Paul Simonon” announces Joe and Mick & Topper add terrific inventive fills to Guns Of Brixton, working hard to keep these ever presents in the set fresh. “Who wants a bit of water?” Joe asks the audience. “Ulster, Ulster, Ulster” shouts from audience [they think its Sham 69?!] “Ulster?” says Mick. Joe “What do they keep chanting“ asks Joe. “Ulster, Ulster” says Mick to which Joe replies “I thought you kept saying off, off, off!” Mick “We couldn’t get further away from home if we tried and this is as far as we can get and this is a song about a dance hall!” Joe interjects “That’s it punch him one!” Mick repeats a bemused “Ulster” and the band launch into a razor sharp White Man In Hammersmith Palais. Joe adlibs sarcastically “back in the UK the New Romantics have arrived. I’ve never seen so many pretty young men in all my life! The new groups are not ” “Alright I can’t expect it from you lot but you lot in the balcony give Topper a big hand for singing his first number in New Zealand!” Hard though to give a big hand to Ivan Meets GI Joe live at the best of times but here it’s heavy rock with out the roll treatment is pretty dire. “Haven’t you got any punk rock bands in New Zealand?” Joe asks the audience. “I tell you its 10 times harder here it’s so hot I’m glad I’m not a punk rocker in New Zealand! You’ll have to get out of the way of the car now!” A fine Brand New Cadillac is followed by a raw but intense Janie Jones. The fast intensity is maintained as the band tear through Koka Kola segueing into I Fought The Law. After an edit for a tape turn over the sweat soaked Auckland audience are treated to a raw and abrasive Somebody Got Murdered which Joe announces “ “This is not about John Lennon” The recollection from one audience member that the band were laid back going through the motions must have a very bad memory! Joe’s “cheap crappy watch stopped” and Mick screams “Murder” as the band tear it up. A pause before Joe says either to the band or the audience is not clear “OK never mind these things you’re singing it ain’t before, yeah after we start singing we do 4 fast normal as before” He then intones the intro to Clampdown but it’s very different from the album version and appears to be “Well the kingdom was ransacked, the jewels are put back, the you and I’s were friends. We read it in the paper, we watched it on TV, never told it the same and the metal spoon in the back of the briefcase put on the table in the toilet, and when they went into make it, the treaty was backstabbed, and you could always FAKE IT” [Any revisions, explanations?!] It’s a fierce performance showcasing Topper’s terrific drumming. The start of Joe’s lengthy adlibs are unclear then as the band drop it down Joe continues “Shush.. and there’s a new kind of bullet been invented, which is a Teflon coated bullet which will pass through a car, through a house, through a bullet proof vest! Through 4 cars, 5 vests, 6 houses yeah they’re turning up on the street now, and you can expect them over here in about 2 years and its called the KTW bullet, pass right through us!” The main set ends with an exceptional and extended Radio Clash. Joe’s again freeversing taking in it appears the Nazi insignias in the audience and the skinheads he met at the harbour “you’re never gonna seig heil, gotta bigger brain …see you in the harbour, go back to England …take it away and fry it!.” He continues as the band stretch out “I wanna hear the women and children being boiled alive!” Joe runs out of adlibs eventually shouting “OK boys take it home” but his band mates have other ideas Mick adding “Lord Haw Haw” to which Joe adds “Hanoi Sue, Vietnam Rose gave me a dose!” Finally the song ends with each band member adding their own improvised touches to the finish. “Thank you and good night” The first encore are all 1977 punk standards and Mick’s guitar sound throughout the concert has a raw punk sound the band surely out to prove something to the audience. An intense abrasive Clash City Rockers is followed by Joe announcing “OK now and I am telling the truth now we’re gonna attempt to play a number that we have not played in 2 years and we have not rehearsed it once and it has a very complicated arrangement so you’re privileged spectators, and you watch us fuck it right over too!” [an exaggeration as it was last played at Bonds in June 81!]Mick then blasts out the opening chords of I’m so Bored with The USA. Topper though comes in late and the song certainly sounds unrehearsed. It’s ragged at times but raw and exciting just skirting the edge of chaos! The band then tear straight into Career Opportunities leaving the audience shouting for more as they leave the stage. The second encore begins with an extended Jimmy Jazz with a long intro from Mick before the rest of the band come in. Mick comes up with another different guitar sound for his solo always varying, keeping songs fresh through invention. Not to be outdone Joe’s adlibs are inventive too! “Come on rover, come and sniff this bloke, he must be around here somewhere!… They didn’t find a bloody thing, one of them looked up my arsehole but we’ll draw the line there on the grounds of common decency, after all I am English and have had a good education!” Topper keeps a steady beat on the drums as the song ends then goes into his “machine gun” attack intro to Tommy Gun. Fast and fierce and Joe’s still free versing aplenty over the extended final coda. Before the band can blast into another song Joe pleads “No, no, no just gonna have a rest now!, if you want to you can pogo to this one!.. give you that one in 10 seconds…Don’t lay around.. A very fine Armagideon Time affords the band a break in the sweltering heat but it’s short lived as Topper’s drum roll takes it straight into a storming, stunning Complete Control played more 1977 style, Mick and Joe trading vocals but Topper’s terrific drumming is the standout. An edit restarts with the 3rd encore and a slow bass drum beat before Mick’s guitar blasts in on a raw but effective Police On My Back. The cassette cuts out almost at the end of the song and the reported finale of White Riot “If it ain’t broke why fix it” Indeed. Joe Strummer - Real Groove Magazine - December 99 to the faraway towns: the clash 1982 John Graham Mellor - better known as Joe Strummer - awoke on the morning of February 6 1982 in a hotel room on Auckland's Anzac Ave. The previous evening his band the Clash had performed the first of six shows in New Zealand. After posting a few notes about the show and the tour under the doors of various band members and crew, Strummer picked up his ukulele and walked downtown for an hour or two of busking, pausing only to quiz passer-by about life in New Zealand and Waitangi Day. I would love to have seen that. One consolation - that first show was for me one of the best rock shows ever. The Clash were at their peak that night. And like the Fall’s Mark E Smith a few months later, Strummer was bemused by all the skinheads he saw in New Zealand. So where did all the Auckland skins go? Maybe they did all move to Christchurch. As far as The Clash gig goes I am 46 years old now and that night is still by far and away the best night of my life. I nearly missed the whole experience as while my mate and I were waiting inside Logan Campbell Centre for the gig to start one of the Bootboys gave me the biggest roach (joint/spliff) I had ever seen and said that I could have it. I started chugging away on it and when I looked up a couple of cops walking the beat saw what I was up to and made a beeline for me. They were about six feet away and all the lights went out and The Clash started belting out London Calling. I just legged it as far away from the scene of the crime that I could and ended up bumping into Rena Owen. (a New Zealand Maori film actress,[1] best known for her role in the film Once Were Warriors (1994). In 2005, she appeared in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith as Nee Alavar, and in Mee-Shee: The Water Giant) Rena had been a friend of mine for a couple of years so I stayed with her for the gig. Her favourite song was Clash City Rockers and she wanted them to play it so she went to the side of the stage and in between songs asked Mick Jones to play it (as only Rena would do!) She also asked him where they were staying and he told them it was the Town House hotel. After the gig we decided to go down there and try to meet them. We bumped into Kim Willoughby (New Zealand’s original pop princess, a self-confessed “rock chick” who virtually grew up in a recording studio with her drummer dad) in the carpark of Logan Campbell Centre so she came along for the ride. We were thrown out of reception twice by the night porter at the Town House and snuck back in twice. On the third eviction they had called a security guard and he had hold of Rena and I and was physically removing us from the premises. As we were being pulled down the exit coridoor I heard English voices joking and laughing. I turned to Rena and said "Let it be The Clash" and sure enough we bumped straight into them. I looked at Joe Strummer and said that we had come to see them and were being thrown out. He said that we were with them and took us through to a lounge area at the hotel. Somehow a couple of really drunk strippers made it in as well. The Clash blew the strippers off straight away, Kim sat in the corner like a stunned mullet which left just Rena and I to talk with the band. We were with them for around an hour and a half while they unwound and were waiting for their meals. We talked with Joe Strummer and Paul Simenon the most. Topper Headon wafted in and out of the conversations and Mick Jones didn't want a bar of it and went to his room. It was amazing as Joe and Paul had more questions for us than we did of them. Wanting to know what we did on a day to day basis, names of the local bands etc. They liked The Screaming Meemees name best. We tried to tell them what a blast it was for us to be meeting them but Joe turned it all around saying that for him being 29 and being able to see other parts of the world as opposed to being stuck in London was what blew him away. He played a few old rock'n'roll songs on the house piano and their meal came and we floated out of there.The only regret that I have of that night was that my brother, Adam wasn't with me. We lead seperate lives in those days but I knew he was probably Auckland's biggest Clash fan and I was the one that was in the right place at the right time. Damian Holt 2007. Mysterex - New Zealand Music and Culture SUNDAY, 24 FEBRUARY 2008 Rat Patrol From Fort Bragg - The Clash in New Zealand - February 1982 The Punk revolution was already won in New Zealand by the time the Clash breached our shores in February 1982. The means of production had been seized. The Auckland, Dunedin, Wellington and Christchurch music scenes were alive with punk’s fire. The national scene glutted with venues and fans. Quality independent groups such as Blam Blam Blam, The Penknife Glides, Danse Macabre, The Instigators, The Newmatics, The Androidss, and The Screaming Mee Mees had stepped up to touring the main cities and the provinces. At your local rock dive you could catch The Prime Movers, The Chills, The Stones, Sneaky Feelings, The Clean, Mainly Spaniards, Bill Direen, Ballon D’essai, The Gordons, Ritchie Venus and The Blue Beetles, This Sporting Life, Naked Spots Dance, Beat Rhythm Fashion, Desperate Measures, Nocturnal Projections, and The Dabs stepping out at the Reverb Room, Rumba Bar, Gladstone, Station Hotel, Mainstreet, Bellblock, DB Onerahi, Sweetwaters Festival, the Hillcrest, the Captain Cook, the Windsor Castle, and others. Punk the ideal predominated the restless intelligence and icon busting zeal - taking old things, pumping them full of youth and arrogance and energy, making them smart and street again. The throbbing live scene was reflected by an unprecedented Kiwi chart presence. In 1981, 24 singles infused with the energy and ideals of punk made the New Zealand Top Fift By 1982, New Zealand record companies were responding quickly. The month the Clash arrived Joy Division, The Fall, Dead Kennedys, The Associates, Orange Juice, Depeche Mode, Kid Creole and the Coconuts, The Go Gos, UB40, Simple Minds, the Jam, Spandau Ballet, XTC, Japan, Cure, Madness, Soft Cell, Bow Wow Wow, Haircut 100, Fun Boy Three, DAF, Bad Manners, New Order, Killing Joke and the Go Betweens all had records released. Punk was secure by 1982, but the same couldn’t be said of The Clash’s prime position in it. Opinion on the group’s worth was deeply divided following the release of the reggae, dub and black dance inspired Sandinista, their sprawling triple album released in April 1981. Now considered a major work, Sandinista was largely dismissed on release as self indulgent and excessive, and was soon languishing in the cheapie bins. The Call Up, the album’s masterful single, spent a scant week at number 42 in the New Zealand charts as far back as mid-December 1980, and despite being voted top group, and second best album for London Calling, in the 1980 Rip It Up readers poll, the Clash failed to make the 1981 poll at all. But those doubts and arguments were quickly pushed aside when the tour was announced. We’re talking first icons of punk here. The Clash shows with their oldies embedded sets would please punk purist and freethinker alike. History would show the Clash had got the timing just right. Punk had fractured in New Zealand. The Clash’s delight in musical adventure and dance had already been taken on board by Kiwi groups. The politics of the Clash’s words had echoed in New Zealand streets during the 1981 Springbok tour, and in 1982, the grey Kiwi air was still riven with frustration and left wing ideals chafing under an autocratic government whose reign it seemed would never end. Out of punk’s expectant gaze, the Clash was a deeply divided group. Its legendary punk gang empathy shattered by drugs, ego, record company friction and the burden of carrying punk’s weighty banner. Combat Rock, their fifth album, due to be finished by December 1981, was stalled, gummed up by the tension between Joe Strummer and Mick Jones. They had seventeen tracks recorded, but the Grimmer Twins were still holed up in separate studios recording new backing tracks. Strummer frustrated the album was under Mick’s direction. Just prior to their New Zealand, Japan, South East Asia, and Australia tour Jones presented what he thought a final mix for a fifteen track double album. Strummer rejected it, dissatisfied with Mick’s production. Following a brief stopover for a press conference in Sydney, and six shows in Tokyo, the Clash arrived in Auckland on February 4th to a four hour customs search. The first major punk band to tour New Zealand. Musical, political and social visionaries whose powerful message had been heard and acted upon by a generation. The Clash - Auckland 5 & 6 February 1982 Logan Campbell Centre. Jeremy Chunn - journalist/Henchmen bassist 2 January 2002 “The Ramones had come in 1980, and the Dead Kennedy's were to visit in 1983; it was long time between international punk acts in New Zealand. “When they landed in Auckland in February, Joe, Mick, Topper and Paul were met by an irritating 17-year-old with a bunch of their records and singles under one arm. I didn't know Combat Rock would contain a disco hit. I had broken Bankrobber and The Call Up singles against a hammer in disgust. Of the "new" Clash I could dig the white reggae of Armageddon Time. “At the airport, always filled with enormous Polynesians pulling taped-shut suitcases, Joe was the first to stroll into the strange scrum of arrivals. Paul and Topper followed soon afterwards. “Joe was very patient and answered questions about guitar pick-ups from the please-accept-me kid with the records. “Then Mick came out and was thrilled to be greeted thus: "Aw, Mick Jones, ya cunt, eh." He was wearing nice brothel creepers with metal-tipped laces. Two questions: Where are we now? and; Who is this dick kid? “I got the records signed. Admired the band's cool clothes. Went home.” Joe Strummer - Clash guitarist and singer - quoted by Troy Ferguson - Real Groove December 1999 “We got there (Auckland) and I decided to go walking, and I walked way down the waterfront, a long way. Then I realised I’d really fucked it, it was getting dark and we had to play. I put out my thumb, and a Maori stopped in a black sports car like a Porsche or Ferrari and I got in. He said: “So what are you doing here, are you a sailor are you? And I went. “No, I’m playing a rock concert. I’ll give you a ticket, and your girlfriend if you want? He said. “Naaah, you’re a fuckin’ joker aren’t ya? You just look like some tramp to me.” And then he pulled up roughly near the hotel and ejected me and wouldn’t accept tickets to the concert.” Paul Rose -Newmatics manager - 2001 “I had an argument with Stewart MacPherson because I rang him to get the support because I thought the Newmatics were the perfect choice of the bands that were around at the time, and he told me in no uncertain terms, he wasn’t going to have a support band. It was the beginning of a battle which went on for some time. The Musicians Union then got involved. If you’re going to touring bands you’ve got to have local support. We didn’t want alot of money in fact, we would have done it for nothing. We just wanted the opportunity to play in front of the Clash, met the Clash and say; “We played with the Clash.” Scene: A crowded concrete bunker venue in Auckland’s suburbs renowned for its poor sound, where the Clash perform two shows on Friday 5th and Saturday 6th of February, as part of the Superock series promoted by Stewart MacPherson. The Saturday show added due to extra demand. Entry is $13.90. The Clash is billed to perform the entire two hour show without a support band. They come on an hour late, and perform a ninety minute twenty five song set covering their entire career to a reverent and awe struck crowd. Jeremy Chunn - 2002 “Outside, everyone was terribly excited and trying to out-punk each other. It was very punk. It was very Auckland punk.” Phil Gifford - The Listener - 13 March 1982 “At Auckland’s LCC, a joyless concrete blockhouse in the middle of the Epsom Showgrounds, it was all black jeans, string vests and hair that had apparently been cut with a knife and fork.” Ben Staples Newmatics’ drummer now Auckland based DJ Benny Lee - on the first show January 2001 “The first image I saw inside was the backdrop, the New York City skyline. The gear was set up and they had the police accident/emergency tape and road markers with Do Not Cross. They’d obviously been in New York a lot. We didn’t know this, but they’d already hooked up with Grandmaster Flash and people like that. .” Phil Gifford - The Listener - 13 March 1982 “The concert is a howl of electronic thunder and rage. Many of the band’s best songs, written with Jones and lead singer Joe Strummer, have powerful evocative lyrics, but in concert the words are mostly lost in distorted sound. “There are two main reasons for the slightly painful sound quality. One is that the band don’t like the songs to sound in any way antiseptic, which they fear crystal clear treatments might do. “The second reason is that Strummer’s voice often packs up an hour or so into the concert, and late in the show, during the few moments when he can be heard he is almost Johnny Rotten flat.” Duncan Campbell - journalist/reggae fan in Rip It Up February 1982 “The Clash were monstrous raw and robust. The sound is only just the right side of a shambles. “Watching Joe Strummer, you wonder how he’s lived so long. He’s from the Keith Richard’s over-the-top school. Just when you think he’s going to pass out he bounces back. He stares at the audience, a face of fury, slashing out rudimentary chords on his battered guitar, talking to people, demanding more light so he can see them. At times he gets dangerously close to a crowd, but then that’s essential for a man so full of nervous tension. “Mick Jones is a poseur, loving his stage role, as though he’s always waiting to be photographed. But without him things would collapse. Strummer can wander off, get tangled up in the leads, throw his guitar away, blow his vocals, and Jones will be there to hold things together. The glamour and the control. “Paul Simonon is the meanest, toughest looking guy alive. A long streak dressed in black, hair slicked and bass slung low. A gunslinger. A master of cool. Behind his traps, little Topper Headon is a working man. Always present never losing his place. “A show touching all the bases? How could you fail to be won over? “In the first few minutes they play London Calling. One More Time. Safe European Home. Train In Vain. Simonon swaps instruments with Strummer to take the lead on Guns of Brixton. A show stopper. “Back projected slides enhance their political image for The Magnificent Seven. Ivan Meets GI Joe, and new single Radio Clash. The nearly 45 minutes more with the pace ever building through Janie Jones, Clampdown, Jimmy Jazz, Somebody Got Murdered, Tommy Gun, I’m So Bored With The USA, Clash City Rockers, I Fought The Law and a finale of White Riot.” Jeremy Chunn - 2002 “About halfway through the gig I felt a strange sensation on the back of my leg. I turned to see a skinhead was urinating on it. Such nice people.” Colin Hogg - The Auckland Star 6 February 1982 “The Clash have retained their earlier rockier edge. And those songs, strung out on lead guitarist Mick Jones’ ringing chords, contrast neatly with the moodier blacker songs that lope along on the elastic bass and drum patterns. Strummer dominates the stage with his angry unpredictable movements.” Jeremy Chunn - 2002 “Inside, over what may have been two hours, the band worked through as much material as required with a token emphasis on the first two albums. I really can't remember specifics. It just seemed mechanical is all; like a band that wanted to go home.” Mark Clare - Newmatics singer now an Auckland based actor. “A group of us went. Rena (Owen actress - Ed) and her girlfriend Angela, who was Syd’s (Newmatics’ guitarist) partner at the time. They were right up the front and on the stage, basically gawking at these guys. We ended up back at the hotel with them in Anzac Avenue. A party until about two or three. It was interesting, they didn’t know who we were. We all sat at a big table to start with, and they were all just carrying on. Strummer was holding court with Simonon and the others.” Ben Staples - 2001 “They were really approachable. I’ve met him since then and spoken to him about that concert. I really respect him.” Malcolm McSporran in (New Zealand) Rolling Stone quoting tour manager the late Graeme Nesbitt. “Joe calls all the shots. After a show everyone goes out and rages. Sometimes he does too, but invariably he’s up at 6am or even 5am wandering the streets writing notes. “Everybody wakes to find notes from Joe under their doors bearing legends like ‘The order of the songs tonight is…’ or ‘I don’t like that lighting bit…’ or ‘Raymond (roadie), you’re fucking up the backstage passes. Don’t do it again!’ His overview is complete right down to the last detail.” Colin Hogg - The Awful Truth 1998 “Up close, The Clash didn’t seem so tough. Weakened by bad diet and self-belief, they didn’t have a laugh in them at all. They had that pre-heroin chic heroin chic thing going, I realise now. They were ahead of the times in that way. But when I sat down for a yak with their guitar player Mick Jones, a little thin guy with greasy hair, he was like a Mormon on speed about the Jesus-like qualities of Joe Strummer, The Clash’s lead singer and songwriter. Talking to some of those guys almost stopped me liking their music.” The Clash - Wellington Town Hall Sunday, 7 February 1982. The Clash arrived in New Zealand capital, Wellington, on Sunday 7 February to make a promotional film, and give a press conference on a barge in Wellington Harbour, where Joe Strummer showed off a bargain $35 baritone ukulele he’d purchased in Auckland. They play Wellington Town Hall that evening, coming on stage at 8.45pm, 45 minutes late. Irene Gardiner - The Dominion February 1982 “Getting the crowd into the hall has been shambolic, a tangle of security guards, police, gatecrashers, and latecomers. “They have good communication with the crowd Joe Strummer introducing the songs and talking to the audience, holding his microphone out to singing front row fans, passing a drink bottle out to the audience, slinging his guitar over his back as he sings without it. “They leave the stage at 9.55pm, play three encores, leave again at 10.35pm, an hour and 50 minutes since they took the stage. The crowd are still calling for more as the house lights go on.” Redmer Yska - In Touch - 1982 “Here in Wellington, dozens of spiky tops swarmed backstage after the Clash’s rip snorting Sunday night show to rap and rage, and the hungry ones were shouted free kai in the shape of fish ‘n chips and pies.” Redmer Yska - Journalist/ Author - 2000 “The Wellington gig was bloody loud with an eye-piercing lightshow. By 1982, they were a soft and flabby rock show like the Rolling Stones or Queen. I have strongest memories of sitting in sunshine on the barge Hikitia on Aotea wharf talking to Paul Simonon, blinking in the sunshine all slicked back with a motel tan. Simonon's line 'its all down to songs' is the profoundest and most memorable piece of rock and roll wisdom (tautology?) that I think I ever heard. Yeah, we thought they was cool.” The Clash - Christchurch Town Hall Monday, 8 February 1982. An extra show is added after a successful petition to get the Clash to play Christchurch (organised by Mary Rose Wilkinson). The group appear on stage to a soundtrack of The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly; opening with a great extended instrumental from Headon and Jones. David Swift - Christchurch Press February 1982 “The Clash City Rockers nearly stopped their show during their second song at the Town Hall last evening. The singer Joe Strummer was furious at being subjected to a hail of gob.” Eric Vanderhoven. Christchurch punk. Desperate Measures’ bass player. “Some guys were really getting into it. And he just stopped and was going: “You guys.” Really angry, like spat the dummy. And everyone was like, I didn’t mean to do that. I’m sorry.” David Swift - Christchurch Press - February 1982 “The Clash dressed, sounded and acted exactly like I expected it to do. Which did mean that the show was predictable. But a rebel stance is a rebel stance right down to the last Rising Sun armband. Three chord thrash? Not these days. Although the bassist, Paul Simonon had his instrument strapped mean ‘n low, just like the good old days. Topper Headon was the musician who impressed most. He seems to have a mastery of most styles, including rockabilly and reggae. “Strummer pranced on wearing one of the worst looking guitars in history, but he played his heart out. Which rhythm guitarist works harder? Mick Jones also dressed in rebel chic (black boots, wristband) played his lead parts with more invention than the recorded versions. Simonon looked basic, but during reggaed numbers such as ‘Armageddon Time’ and ‘Bankrobber’ his looks defied his abilities.” Rob White - Christchurch Star February 1982. “There is nothing tidy and gift wrapped at a Clash concert. There’s nothing neat about Joe Strummer stopping the show, screaming out he could die from hepatitis from the spitting of the bootboys. Strummer standing out front daring anybody to knock him down, but sounding like a little boy when someone kept trying to tie his bootlaces together. “The middle part was the bad part with the Clash getting totally lost in their own reggae rhythms. There were plenty of troughs, but when they hit those peaks the British band had the same tacky grandeur as their opening spaghetti western theme. An old song like White Man In Hammersmith Palais got new verses added (Joe’s attack on the New Romantics).” Eric & Eugene Following their usual three encores the Clash depart, turning up later at an after show party in their honour at nightclub PJs. Eric: “We played the After Clash party .” Eugene: “We were the only punk band.” Eric: “There was all this simmering potential violence there. They had this crazy guy on the door.” Eugene: “He’d sort of taken over the nightclub. He’d gone from being bouncer and taken it over.” Eric: “And they were scared of him, and he wasn’t gonna let us play. And there are guys outside getting metal blasts. Eugene: “He nun-chucked somebody this guy.” Eric: “We finally stuck our gear on the stage.” Eugene: “After waiting to three o’clock in the morning, to the last band. He said I’ve decided I’m not going to let you play.” Eugene: “We took all our gear down a steep steep staircase and we were fucked off. And the next thing this mini-van pulls up. It’s the Clash. Mick Jones and Joe Strummer and the like. I said: “These guys won’t let us play.” Within five minutes we were on stage, mate.” Eric: “I used to really like Paul Simonon. I used to try and smoke like him, play like he used to play. Bass really low and everything. We were playing and he came late. He walked in with two blonde girls one on each arm. He sauntered in, looked around and walked out again. Eric: ‘I remember talking to Joe Strummer saying I want to go to England. I want to go to England. And he was going I wouldn’t be in such a rush to go to England. It’s not all rosy, it’s grey and depressing, there’s another side to it. You should stop for moment and look around, you’re actually living in paradise. A beautiful country. Nah. I wanna go to England. I want to go to the 100 Club. I saw in the NME about six months later, he had this interview and he was going I met these skinhead guys in Christchurch, New Zealand and they all wanted to go to England. That was me.” Mick Jones Duncan Campbell Rip It Up - March 1982 “I was surprised to see you had riots here. I think that’s an indication of New Zealanders sense of fair play. “People seem to have some kind of harmony, they’re able to co-exist. That seemed to have been the good thing about the anti-apartheid demonstrations here. It shows people care about peaceful co-existence, and were prepared to use love, backed by force.” Joe Strummer Roz Reines.” Jeremy Chunn - Journalist - Henchmen bassist - 2 January 2002 “The Clash has always confused me. I have seldom broken other bands' records with a hammer (maybe only two others). For moments they are so good, at others so bad. And all the time there are the clothes and the bass player's cheekbones, things that shouldn't count. But they counted too much. There is/was nothing dangerous about The Clash. But maybe perceived danger is a whole other pretense. One fact is indisputable: in February 1982 The Clash had nothing left in them. “Who could understand Sandinista? Who cared? By the time The Clash landed in New Zealand in 1982, the band had severed connections with whatever had energised its first two albums. For teens like me who wanted Safe European Home levity and Complete Control attack, the two-hour-plus show." jonathang That first Auckland show was fantastic in spite of the awful venue. The crowd was baying for White Riot. Seem to recall Strummer was reluctant, claiming they hadn't played it for years. Anonymous I hitched over from the West Coast to see this. I kinda knew Maryrose and Mary who organised the extra gig in ChCh. The most amusing thing I heard about that was from Maryrose who said Jim Wilson, local promoter and disliked because he seemed to be the only person making money out of music in ChCH in the 80's, came over and sneered "I can't believe TWO GIRLS got the Clash!" Oh and the gig was absolutely bloody marvellous. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 London Calling One More Time Safe European Home Train In Vain The Leader Bankrobber Magnificent 7 The Guns Of Brixton White Man in Ham Palais Ivan Meets GI Joe Brand New Cadillac Janie Jones Koka Kola I Fought the Law Somebody Got Murdered Clampdown This Is Radio Clash Clash City Rockers Im So Bored with the USA Career Oportunities Jimmy Jazz Tommy Gun Armagideon Time Complete Control Police on My back White Riot missing (wanted) One More Time Auckland Star 12 Feb 1982 Full exhaustive gig review and interview Auckland Star Gig Review Auckland Star interview with Mick the day after Logan Campbell Gig - published 12 Feb.

Toppers last gig updated 5 Jan 2010 - added promoters comments & poster updated 12 April 2011 - added full review Police and Thieves CD - Sound 5 - 57min - cd/m - Track 15 Into the 80's CD - Sound 5 - 57min - cd/m - Track 15 Che Guevara CD - Sound 5 - 19min - cd/m - Tracks 5 FM Radio source - Sound 5 55.50 cdr Tracks 15 Interview Video - Top quality - 3 mins approx - all 4 band members on a railway station Visit the Clash on Stage website for a comprehensive catalogue of unofficially released CD's and Vinyl. Notes: An audience recording of this show was seeded on Dime about six months ago. Judging from the samples of that torrent, it appeared to be a higher generation version of this recording. Way back then, I promised to transfer and seed this cleaner sounding version. Took a little longer than expected, sorry. The taper, who I only knew vaguely, was a Deadhead who flew from LA over to England for the Dead's mini-tour of Europe in March of '81. He stayed on in Europe for a couple of months and recorded some other shows, including this one. I think he did a creditable job. (Footnote: this guy claimed to have made an audience recording of the big Who/Dead Rockpalast show in March, and he further claimed that it "blew away" the radio broadcast. He said Townshend's guitar was really loud in the hall when he sat in with the Dead, and that it was amazing. Unfortunately, I never got to hear it, and it appears to be lost in the mists of time). Couple comments: There are volume fluctuations in the first 10 minutes or so. There's a tape flip/cut right in the middle of "Magnificent Seven," at about 02:37. Finally, it sounds like the taper stopped the tape after "Armagideon Time," and re-started after the beginning of "London's Burning," not sure how much is missing, but probably not much. However, the quality changes noticeably, and it also sounds like he's moved to the back of the hall. Please check out the samples before downloading. And then turn it up! I was the promoter of the Clash show at the Lochem Festival (quoted in Passion is a Fashion). I am looking for the best bootleg (cd) of this show. Can you recommend me a title and a place to buy? We are trying to retrieve the original recordings from the radio broadcaster that recorded it, but it seems to be lost. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you. Frank van Hoorn - frank[a]vanhoorn.com The Clash live in at Lochem Festival ©1981 Laurens van Houten - 60 second review! AWOL Joe returns in nick of time, appalling weather, fighting, fans on stage, band all out of their heads on Amsterdam’s finest, arrive late, play poorly, grab the $75k fee and go! 36 hours later Topper sacked but were it to be on the basis of this performance alone then all of them should have been sacked! Lochem was anything but The Clash’s finest hour but nevertheless the perfect hifi recording is well worth having (particularly the superior alternate FM radio source) documenting as it does a fascinating and significant point in the band’s history. Although Joe had a sore throat, Mick’s guitar was out of tune, and they were collectively out of there heads(!) there are some very decent performances to enjoy (Guns of Brixton in particular and the first and only Topper live Ghetto Defendant) along with some of the worst Clash performances too! Glyn Johns After the band’s last gig in Bangkok in February, they took what they thought would be a break in Thailand, which turned out to be anything but with Paul becoming seriously ill and Topper going cold turkey. Back in London with no agreement on the mix for the new album and a UK tour in April, veteran producer Glyn Johns was brought in against Mick’s wishes. Joe wanted an unashamedly commercial album as a weapon in the war to win over the American masses. Glyn Johns would provide a single album; dry and punchy as opposed to Mick’s experimental and atmospheric double. The heavy strained atmosphere in the sessions in Glyn Johns’ Surrey garden studio being the finale to the album’s agonisingly extended birth; a major factor in the groups demise. Mick reluctantly conceded but no one was really talking to each other. At Glyn’s request Joe rewrote the lyrics to Know Your Rights and re-recorded the vocals as did Mick for Should I Stay Or Should I Go. Ironically of course the album (preceded by Know Your Rights/First Night Back in London) would be the band’s most commercially successful album and was critically acclaimed by the UK press; coincidentally the Falklands conflict making the album’s content more relevant. Combat Rock released on May 14th went to No. 2 in the UK album charts much to the surprise of the band. The Clash live in at Lochem Festival ©1981 Laurens van Houten - AWOL Strummer Ticket sales however, for the 19 date UK tour planned to start on April 26th in Aberdeen were sluggish, so Bernie hatched his infamous plan for Joe to go AWOL to boost interest and thus ticket sales. Bernie had a point; for most nights on the planned and the eventual tour tickets had not sold out and could be bought at the venue on the night, as this writer discovered whilst following the band round a chunk of the tour. The Clash had retained their core following in the UK but although they were becoming huge in the US, there was not the buzz and excitement now when The Clash came to town. The average UK concert-goer perhaps believing the build ‘em up knock ‘em down methods of the UK music press were now into other bands and fads. Bernie’s plan though spectacularly back-fired and ran completely counter to the band’s commitment (up to that point) to their fans. Thousands of Clash fans were disappointed, inconvenienced and in many cases out of pocket when Joe disappeared and the whole UK tour was eventually postponed to July. That Strummer went along with Bernie’s suggestion says much for the mental state he was in at the time because little in his past actions would suggest he would otherwise be up for such a scam. Joe though was by all accounts thoroughly depressed after the Glyn Johns sessions, Topper’s addiction, and the belief that he and the band were slogging their guts out for nothing. Arguably it would take Joe another 15 years or more before he would recover from The Clash and his personal demons. We know that Joe ignored Bernie’s suggestion of going to stay with Joe Ely in the US (and to not take Gaby) instead taking the boat train to Paris on April 21/22 with Gaby to stay at her friend’s flat near Montmartre. Bernie appealed in the music press for help in finding Joe but the rest of the group were kept in the dark. They knew he was OK as had phoned his mother but were not aware of the scam and when he would be back. As the days went by though, Bernie and Kosmo got more and more worried when Joe did not phone them as arranged and more and more dates were cancelled. The cost of cancelling the UK tour were growing fast but were dwarfed by the potential cost of cancelling the June US tour: the band would be bankrupt if Joe did not return. The by now bearded Joe and Gaby had a great time running the Paris marathon, visiting museums and locations made famous by artists and writers (he was a fan of the poet Rimbaud). The circumstances around Joe’s return are well covered by accounts in Joe’s and The Clash’s biographies. When Joe did eventually return with Rambo Vinyl on May 18th Mick and Paul must have been incensed to learn of Bernie’s scam. Topper would soon learn that Joe had now decided to act and unknown to him persuaded Paul and Mick to give him a final test at Lochem. The Festival Joe returned from Paris on the 18th May and according to Topper’s account the band flew out of Heathrow (he was he said nodding out in his breakfast at the airport) to Amsterdam on the 19th. There was no time for rehearsals, a factor surely in the poor performance. But not the only one, Joe had a sore throat and when they arrived by bus late at the Festival in Lochem, with assorted hitch hikers and hangers on they were according to promoter Frank Zanhorn all out of their heads having sampled the finest hash and weed on the way from Amsterdam! Although the biggest Festival in Holland few tickets had been sold because of Joe’s disappearance. Half of the 16,000 audience had left after the last confirmed act heavy metal band Saxon! Festivals were hardly ideal venues for The Clash to play anyway and this was made worse by having to play in the day light at a very un-Clash friendly 4.30pm, only a few hours after Mick normally got up! To add to that the weather was abysmal, with thunder and lightning and heavy rain. Fighting broke out between fans and security, Joe complained the security was attacking the Clash fans but the promoter said a number of fans were armed with knives etc and were dangerous. A fan René from Holland, provided a personal account. It was a sunny and rainy day. Between the sun the rain felt down. After Saxon (with a lot of hardrockers) had played (in my memory) it was time for the last show that day. The day I had been waiting for :-) Yes, it was a great show/gig. A huge crowd, standing in the rain to listen and watch The Clash. I still know what you're talking about at your website what happened after the song Train in Vain. In front of the stage they had built an enormous wooden fence. Very high. If you stood in front of that you couldn't see anything at the stage. Very disappointing. So the distance between the stage and the public was very big. So many people climbed up on that fence, sit on watched the show. Some 'bodyguards' tried to get them of the wooden fence. So a lot of people get in between the stage and the wooden fence. Then other people climbed upon the wooden fence too (also me). I think Joe tried to calm down the 'bodyguards' and the public. After sometime the concert had gone further. I can remember that at sometime during the show more and more people climbed upon that wooden fence. Joe asked for ladders so people could climb upon the stage. At the end of the show the whole stage was full of fans. And they stayed very calm. Didn't ruin anything and let The Clash play on. I downloaded some of the mp3 but i couldn't hear anything about that at the last songs. And in my memory I think they played one or two songs in advanced. One number I remember in particular because it was one of my favourites at that time. It was the song Straight to Hell. It's a pity that it's not on your live recording.Very wet but satisfied I returned home :-) The promoter Frank Zanhorn wrote his account in an article in the 2007 Q Magazine Classic Clash edition (and included in Pat Gilbert’s book). He said Joe invited fans on stage, encouraging them to push and knock the fences down. He said there were 500 on stage and 500 below the stage, which started collapsing slowly. The Dutch Police wanted to invade, but he persuaded them otherwise and the band completed a full set (FM radio only broadcast the main set). Frank Zanhorn remembered Topper drumming well but looking pretty intoxicated before and after; dead silent and stoned. Mick he said was fine and reasonable but that Joe was stressed out and completely wired. There was no interaction between Topper and the rest of the band Financially the Festival was a disaster for the promoter, having not sold enough tickets but the band insisted though on their full fee, needing it to pay the UK tour cancellation costs. photo courtesy of Joerg Bruekner Performance; There are very varying opinions on the performance at Lochem amongst Clash fans; some consider it excellent aided by the hifi sound, some that is so woeful that it is not worth owning. The truth is surely in between, although there had been some limited pre-UK tour rehearsals in April before Joe disappeared (the mood at the rehearsals further depressing Joe) accounting for the variations to the arrangements and introduction of new live performances of Ghetto Defendant (and reportedly Straight To Hell), the band had no time to rehearse after Joe returned and it clearly shows. Unrehearsed, all of the band out of their heads (not just Topper from most accounts) and Joe unwell with a hoarse voice it is not surprising that the band’s near telepathic tightness deserted them and accounted for a number of embarrassing mess ups and general rustiness. The widely bootlegged recording adds to the problem; it runs slow and has a flat remixed sound, which lost a lot of The Clash’s live energy. The alternate FM sourced tape is significantly better and more enjoyable. There are some decent performances; this was The Clash live after all! The problem being for fans is the knowledge that they could play so much better. Topper sacked When Joe returned Paul and Mick agreed to give an unaware Topper one last chance at Lochem; an ultra tough test if you travel via Amsterdam! Topper has said “I was nodding out in my breakfast at Heathrow. Then at the gig I was scoring coke and everything else” The final straw came perhaps while Joe was checking his stage gear backstage before the gig in a full length mirror only for Topper to ask to lay it down flat so he could hoover up cocaine into his nose! Topper’s behaviour at Lochem convinced the band he was in no fit state for the US tour and the following morning after the band returned to London, the band held a meeting and Topper was sacked. Mick alone argued in Topper’s corner who blamed Bernie for his sacking but resented Paul for sitting on the fence. Topper has though always maintained that his band mates had really no choice and that in his own words by then “he had lost touch with the band, reality and the planet” Venue Lochem.ogg" Lochem is a city in eastern Netherlands, not that far from the German border. The music festival was an established annual event ; Slade headlining in 1981, and the Undertones appearing in 1983. A Dutch broadcasting station called VARA recorded The Clash performance live at the Lochem Festival and broadcast the main set only, in hifi stereo sound. Years later evidently it was rebroadcast late at night. VARA also broadcast the 1981 Clash Amsterdam gig. It was released in 1992 as a commercial bootleg on the KTS label titled ‘Into the 80’s’ It has also been released, in partial or complete form in many forms, including Summer of '82 (LP), Lochem Festival (LP), Garageland (LP), Live (LP), Che Guevara (CD), and Police and Thieves (CD). It was probably directly copied as Live at the Lochem Festival, Holland (CD). Visit the "Clash on Stage directory of known boot releases" Clash on Stage website for a comprehensive catalogue of unofficially released CD's and Vinyl. An FM sourced tape possibly coming from the rebroadcast has a different sound and includes the Dutch radio announcer’s comments (these are edited out on the bootleg CD’s and the two parts of Career Opportunities are edited together.) It has improved sound quality and clarity over the bootleg CD’s with a more exciting, engaging sound. The bootleg CD was ‘remastered’ to boost the bass but in the process lost the top end “attack”. It’s mixed like commercial albums of the time, smoothing off the rough edges of The Clash live sound but as a result losing its cutting edge and impact. Significantly the bootleg CD runs slower than the FM tape and irrespective of which is the correct speed the bootleg CD does sound slow and un-engaging. The FM tape is more enjoyable. Strangely as the sound quality is so good there are edits on the recording suggesting it could not have been recorded direct from the broadcast. A few seconds of Should I Stay are missing, a very short section of Complete Control is repeated and Clampdown fades out 105 seconds into the song. Information about a full audience recording has appeared on Dime in recent years but this is almost certainly the Amsterdam 1981 recording. The FM tape has a slightly longer intro to London Calling than the boot CD’s which fades in. A decent performance Joe adlibs “don’t look to us..hey it’s a festival and you’re stuck in the mud!…coming on a boat, crossing the river..” Although both sources have excellent hifi sound the FM tape is sonically superior; Mick’s solo sounds more effective, more stereo separation, vocals clearer. Joe vocals are clearly affected by his sore throat on Safe European Home, Mick tries to help out but his vocals are very flat at times. Topper’s drum fills add the most interest to another decent if unexceptional performance with little inspiration from either the band or Joe ad-libing. Guns of Brixton though is very fine with inventive and effective guitar fills by Mick and the band sound tight and focussed here. Trouble in the audience prompting a “Hold on. Oi!” from Paul and the music breaks down except for drum then bass which actually adds to the performance especially when Mick brings it all back up with a great blast of guitar. “This one is not to fight to, if you understand English, it’s one to dance to” says Mick introducing a fine if unexceptional Train In Vain; his vocals again flat in places. Joe concerned about the fighting and the large wooden fence separating the stage asks “Yeah by the way who’s the, where’s the Promoter? Why don’t you people leave this area?” Directed at the promoter/security he continues “You should let them come there’s nothing to defend here” The FM radio announcer then comes in (cut on the boot CD’s) to explain what’s happening and to translate Joe’s words. Joe continues on both sources ”Come on long legs let us see you jump! Oi Oi! They say its alright” Further encouraging the fans to get over the fence he says “This is a song to kick a fence down to!” and the band blast into a fierce Clash City Rockers. Apart from a few flat vocals and a mix up between Mick and Joe coming in at different times the band pull it off. “Mick Jones” shouts Joe before Mick’s solo; again buried somewhat in the mix on the boot CD’s, much more effective on the FM tape. The drum intro to Know Your Rights as on earlier performances is very similar to the Guns of Brixton drum intro but this is not evidence of a Topper error but further evidence that the band had yet to fully work up at rehearsals how to play this song live. Lyrics are now almost as per the reworked vocals for Glyn Johns but it’s an uninspired performance with Joe’s vocals strained and weak from his sore throat. A lukewarm Magnificent Seven follows with further evidence of that loss of the telepathic tightness of the band’s best performances. Mick tries to get the depleted and soaked audience going, shouting “fuck the rain!” There’s a lack of inspiration though in his playing and after the bridge Mick & Joe mix up on the lyrics, Joe’s voice breaks up and Topper holds it just together. Not a bad performance but like most performances at Lochem they were usually much better. Ghetto Defendant is the first circulating live performance of the song and the only live performance with Topper on drums. Joe’s lyrics on this song and others on Combat Rock demonstrate a progression in his lyric writing further into a Beat poetry influenced approach. His vocals on this slow song are less stretched by his sore throat and it’s a strong together performance. A highlight. Mick’s guitar is by now going out of tune but Should I Stay or Should I Go? still sounds fresh and energetic; the twin guitar interplay swings on this hifi recording. Mick’s adds a new instrumental section and extends the ending but his vocals are out of tune at times. Joe does not add any Strummer Spanish vocals. Topper then beats out the intro to Police and Thieves, which has an extended instrumental only start. Mick’s solo here is effective. There is some variation on earlier arrangements presumably from the April rehearsals, problems come though when they try to improvise! Mick’s guitar is again going out of tune but the break down to a drum and bass dub style section is again effective. But when Joe shouts the last “coming in” Mick and Joe are embarrassingly out of step. They recover quickly though with some Joe rhythm guitar improvisation before the band build it up again effectively. The Clash had always showed progression in their arrangements to songs; keeping them fresh and interesting even on the songs that had been constants in their sets for years. There’s more evidence of changes on Brand New Cadillac as well; the band were still pushing forward musically right up to Topper’s departure, it’s arguable though whether there was much progression after he left. As Topper goes into Complete Control Joe orders “Oh No- I want to hear you sing” and the band go into Bankrobber with Joe attempting largely fruitlessly to get the audience to sing along. Not extended but enjoyable enough. The drum sound on the intro to Complete Control sounds like Topper is hitting pots and pan lids! Mick’s out of tune guitar gives an atonal intro, the band try to whip it up but the timing is out. Mick’s guitar solo is out of tune; Joe’s “you’re my guitar hero” here is far from convincing! The tin pot drum intro to Career Opportunities is uninspiring which is why maybe the FM radio announcer is faded in to give what sounds like some traffic information at Breda! Again not bad but they had been so much better. Very unusually Clampdown fails here to excite; it would be a challenge to identify a poorer performance of this live. There’s no spoken intro as on the Australasian dates and the FM tape perhaps mercifully fades out 1min 30 in! Joe’s voice is strained, he adds a topical “working down in Malvinas” but his remaining adlibs are especially tired and ineffective ”and if birds can sing, one more hot dog, one more Heineken with the top off” and then fades out before the songs conclusion, and the encores which included a reported first live Straight To Hell. Many including Strummer would say there were no good gigs after Topper was sacked (except one he said at Asbury Park). Thousands of Clash fans would argue otherwise of course and thanks to the tapes circulating we can decide for ourselves. The loss of Topper Headon to The Clash cannot be overestimated and his sacking would be bitterly regretted by Joe especially. photo courtesy of Joerg Bruekner The Clash live in at Lochem Festival ©1981 Laurens van Houten - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 The Clash: Up The Hill Backwards Charles Shaar Murray, NME, 29 May 1982 Chris Knowles The Essential Clash Bootleg Bible includes this gig Any further info / reviews appreciated The Clash: Up The Hill Backwards Charles Shaar Murray, NME, 29 May 1982 HALF PAST ONE on Portobello Road. Past the chippy, opposite the bookshop, within earshot of a man with an amplified mouth-harp honking and scything through Little Walter's greatest hits. The sun comes down hard on the cast of the street parade, on the bikes and push-chairs and the stalls, a crowded pavement where money changes hands, time is passed and everybody seems to be waiting for something different to happen. And it does: one by one, The Clash appear. First Paul Simonon, dressed in his usual black, then Mick Jones in khaki pants, bleached denim jacket and huge Rasta cap, then Joe Strummer, greasy, stubbled and buttoned into his trench-coat. OKAY! HERE WE GO! JOE'S BACK AND TOPPER'S GONE WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT TO KNOW? That's approximately what Kosmo Vinyl had said a couple of hours earlier on the phone, so we deal with that. This is Saturday, while the F.A. Cup Final is going on, and the previous Thursday, The Clash reunited in Amsterdam to play the last ever gig with Topper Headon. Strummer had returned after weeks of rumours working as a navvy in Marseilles, fished up out of the river in Glasgow, what did you hear? Did you believe it? from a sojourn in Paris, during which time two career politicians in dead schtuck with their punters while their countries were falling to pieces embarked on a joint military adventure to distract attention from the home front and wave a few flags around, an entire British Clash tour was cancelled and rearranged, and Combat Rock had reached number two in the album charts. Obviously, there are a few things to discuss. First Topper. Why'd he go? "It was his decision," Strummer replies. We're squeezed into a booth in the corner caff: Strummer hunched in the corner, Simonon and Jones opposite, Kosmo Vinyl at an adjoining table and Bernard Rhodes leaning over Strummer's shoulder anxious to answer the questions first. "I think he felt...it's not too easy to be in The Clash. It's not as simple as being in a comfortable, we're-just-entertainers group, and he just wanted to do that, just play music. He's a brilliant multi-instrumentalist what used to be called that and it's a bit weird to be in The Clash at the moment. Well, it was. He has to sort of strike out in another direction, because I don't think he wants to come along with us. There are things that we all want to do..." "We all feel the same," Jones chips in, "and he don't, really." "We're going to continue as a trio," resumes Strummer. "I'm going to play the drums," announces Simonon brightly. "We're gonna get some guest drummers in, and they're gonna play with us whenever we want to make a record or play some shows." OKAY. Why'd you vanish? "Me? (Who'd you think, Lord Lucan? Ed). It's a long story." Gonna tell it? Strummer sighs. "Well...it was something I wanted to prove to myself: that I was alive. It's very much like being a robot, being in a group. You keep coming along and keep delivering and keep being an entertainer and keep showing up and keep the whole thing going. Rather than go barmy and go mad, I think it's better to do what I did, even for a month. "I just got up and I went to Paris...without even thinking about it. I might have gone a bit barmy, you know? But anyway, I went to Paris, and I knew that there'd be a lot of people.. the fans were disappointed, the road crew had sold their motors to pay the rent fucking around with this lot. I knew a lot of people were going to be disappointed, but I had to go and I went and I'd recommend anybody else to do that if they have to. "And once I got there...I only intended to stay for a few days, but the more days I stayed, the harder it was to come back because of the more aggro I was causing that I'd have to face there." What about the agreements that you'd broken by going? Were you thinking of them? "Yeah! We'd never blown out other gigs except for the time that Topper got stabbed in the hand with a pair of scissors. Even when the gear doesn't arrive and we're in a foreign city and the trucks are held up at the border, we'll still play the show by borrowing stuff off the support band or whoever we can get it from. We've got some pride in that direction the show must go on blah blah than to cut out permanently, you know?" So what would have happened if you hadn't gone? "I think I would have started drinking a lot on the tour, maybe. Started becoming petulant with the audience, which isn't the sort of thing that you should do...but it's very different now that Topper's left. It's back to the old trio now," he concludes with what can only be described as anticipatory glee. So what did Simonon and Jones feel about the wandering Joe's pilgrimage? "Well, I felt that anything he does is all right," replies Jones, staring out from under his cap. "Obviously we were disappointed that we weren't going off on tour and everything, and we were disappointed that some of our fans would be disappointed, but I said this before while Joe was away I felt sure that whatever he had was a good reason. And he's such an extraordinary person that it was fine: we could handle it. Hold the fort was what we did." Were you in contact while Joey was away? "No," volunteers Simonon. "We knew he was all right because he phoned his mum. He'd told her to keep schtum but I think Kosmo wore her down." While you were away, did you consider not coming back at all, doing the full vanish? "I don't think I had the...it's pretty hard to do that, to disappear for ever." "Bernie was saying," says Jones, indicating in the general direction of Rhodes' manic grin and impenetrable shades, "'Now this is like Brian Jones or Syd Barratt or something, now you're one of these group' so it is possible to vanish forever. Okay! We're The Pink Floyd now! And," he continues, warming to his theme, "Joe was Syd Barratt." Yeah, but he didn't vanish physically. Jones considers this. "Ah no, that was Vince Taylor, wasn't it." Was Joe thinking while he was away about what was going to have to be different when he got back? "No, not really, I was just pleased to have an...escape. It's great bunking off work, really great as you well know and it was a bit of that. I was just enjoying being alive. I just wanted to prove to myself that I was alive...that I existed, that it wasn't over. It was okay. We're doing this firstly for ourselves..." "And it helps clear the air, anyway" Simonon "The fact that he went just cleared the air and made you realise more of where you stood individually as well as to two other people, three other people, or whatever. I knew he was coming back." Strummer picks up the thread again. "I was saying that we're supposed to be doing this for ourselves, and when you lose sight of that, you're in trouble, because you start to think, 'Those people out there don't really care' that's the people who come and see you and buy your records. It's been a bit of a desert for us lately, but we're Number Two this week with the album which is a real shock, I can tell you..." OBVIOUSLY! While the sheer fact of a record's presence in the charts is not necessarily a relevant signifier, Combat Rock is the most extreme and direct Clash album since the first, and its ready acceptance and acknowledgement by the purchasing public indicates that there's far more support than is often supposed both for The Clash themselves and for the militancy that they once again represent. See, The Clash had become first accepted, then absorbed, then declared quaint, obsolete, null and void. As soon as it became 'safe' to like them and they started touring the States, it then became 'safer' not to. It was a short step from American pundits hailing them as the new greatest rock band in the world the new Stones! The new Who! to British True Punks and post-rock hipsters alike to regard them as just another Anglo-American success story, like Costello before he withdrew, or The Pretenders. Not hard enough for the Oi Polloi, too rockist for the dancetariat. And I mean they really show their roots: there's good old Greasy Joe with his rockabilly fetish, and Ranking Paul skanking with the system, and Mick's such a poser, always playing too loud... Plus all this romantic rebel guerilla chic, all the ethnic snippets...hopeless, boys. Hopeless. The trouble is that in the wake of Combat Rock none of that washes any more. X. Moore did the album all due honour a couple of weeks ago, so it only remains to state that it's a very clear album: the work of people who know exactly what they want to say and exactly how they want to sound. There is virtually no 'hard rock': none of the bull-dozing rabble-rousing power-chord anthems left over from Give 'Em Enough Rope, none of the easy warmth of parts of London Calling, none of the musical tourism and lucky-dip oddments of Sandinista. They haven't united their sound and their vision more perfectly since their first LP, though both have broadened almost beyond recognition in the intervening period. Listen to the way Strummer sings 'Straight To Hell' or 'Ghetto Defendant'. What you're hearing is not a presumptuous or impertinent attempt to associate with the alleged glamour of revolutionary war or urban repression, but genuine compassion for the victims of organised human stupidity and greed; an expression of a desire to draw attention to intolerable circumstances and to mobilise public opinion towards eradicating them. I don't know about you, but I respect that compassion. Combat Rock says that playtime is over. Strummer says that it's very hard being in The Clash, and if they are taking what they're doing as seriously as the album would suggest, then it sounds like he's right. It's also very hard being around them: not in the sense that they're unpleasant or antagonistic, but they carry an atmosphere of tension with them, just as they did when they were starting out. A very strong sense of purpose. Combat Rock was as is obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the logistics of record-making written, recorded and designed and packaged long before the Falkland Islands represented anything to anybody who didn't have relatives there, but synchronicity is not a myth and this album isn't just selling because it's good product from a popular band. I think it's selling because a large and significant number of people want to hear what it says. There's an edge on the album and there's an edge on The Clash again. Once again, they are a profoundly unreasonable band. There is a lot of excellent entertainment about, and it is by no means all reactionary, but it is reasonable. The Clash aren't. "AND we're going to go over to New Jersey and start a four-and-a-half week American tour, and then we're going to come back here and do the British tour that we should have done before that's if we can find a drummer. After that we don't have any plans." Mick Jones: "After that, we all disappear." So what do The Clash want to do? "We want to consolidate something like us," replies Jones. "Coming together and then exploding out. Out of captivity, the captivity of people's expectations of us...and of being contained by the music industry, that situation of not being able to get out." So how do you get what you want out of them without them getting what they want out of you? "Simple!" snorts Strummer. "Make sure that you're in a position to be able to say what you want, make sure that you're ahead. But as soon as you're not in a position to do that, if you're not independent enough to do that, if we couldn't keep this thing going to the right pitch, then we'd be...CBS were coming around to us saying, 'Right, we've got these suits here and we've got a nice little number written by Andrew Lloyd Webber..," "And a nice idea for a new haircut," interrupts Jones. "...and that would become what we were putting out. It wouldn't be anything to do with us. You have to be independent enough to remember what you were there to do in the first place, or you're fucked. They've all got their lawyers and their legal scene well worked out before we were even born. It's very hard to go in there and not go under. I mean, the whole game is to get you so that you owe them so much money so that you can't say, 'No, I don't wanna do that' without them saying, 'So how are you gonna pay this?'" Bernard Rhodes at this point launches a high-velocity dissertation on the subject of Control In The Media and the fact that The Clash don't seem to reap the benefits of the airplay shop-window. (This is, after all, only right and proper. I, for one, don't want a load of depressing rubbish about knowing your rights and not heeding the call-up on my shiny yellow airwaves). "...in fact," Jones sums up. "We've written a song about it. It's called 'Complete Control' and we hope to have it out for the summer." Well, you can by-pass the radio if people will buy your singles whether they get airplay or not. "We can do that because we've always put singles out whether they got played or not. People have said that we should just do albums, but we like singles too! But since 'Capital Radio' we haven't been played on Capital Radio." Mick doesn't sound too surprised about that, as it happens. "I never thought we'd be Number Two in Britain. I really didn't," Strummer muses. Rhodes quietly tips a slug of brandy into Joe's cup of black coffee. "There really seems to be something against us here...over the last few years, since we started going round the world." "People don't understand," Simonon interposes fiercely, "what 'Bored With The USA' was about. They haven't got a fucking clue. If people say 'Oh, The Clash did 'Bored With The USA' and they're always going over there'...they don't understand the bloody song in the first place!" "I think that Britain is really insular" Strummer "They don't realise that there is a world out there. People who spend any amount of time in London can't believe that anything outside London exists. I like to travel..." This would appear to be the case. Another new factor in the existence of The Clash is the removal of one of the all-time great millstones: their financial debt to CBS Records. This liberation is due to the much-abused and admittedly unwieldy Sandanista!, which has quietly and unsensationally contrived to be purchased by approximately 197,000 people in this country alone. They are now out of hock for the first time, a state of affairs which they find highly satisfactory. It is, after all, at least as valuable in terms of independence as cash. Kosmo Vinyl recounts that nearly every American college the band had visited last time round had featured a bulletin-board offer to tape anybody's choice of an hour's worth of Sandanista! for around $3. American release of Combat Rock has been delayed so that the sleeve can be reprinted without the 'Home Taping Is Killing Music' health warning. "We don't care how many people tape our records," he declares proudly. What The Clash are in the process of becoming is in spite of CBS Records a genuinely Underground band (I am choosing, thoroughly arbitrarily, to define an 'underground band' as one which is denied access to radio and TV exposure for reasons other than unpopularity). This means that their music actually has to be sought out. To see The Clash you have to go to their gigs (whenever they happen to be), and to hear The Clash you have to buy their record (or tape it off someone else who's bought it). Embarking on this course means an awful lot of hard work: it means that the band have to stay in touch with their audiences and keep their interest and in the case of The Clash, that also means retaining their trust in order to make sure that their work continues to be sought out. Especially in the current climate, one is unlikely to hear 'Know Your Rights' or any of the vital album tracks on daytime radio or down the pub. Current pop wisdom sayeth as follows: in order to create a popular success, something shiny must be dangled in front of people's eyes via electronic media. The only other way is via discos and the club scene, and The Clash are no more welcome there (apart from isolated breakouts like 'Magnificent Seven' and maybe 'Overpowered By Funk' from Combat) than they'd be on a Capital playlist. Doing it The Clash's way on a worldwide basis therefore demands an insane amount of gigging, and as a famous '60s smart-ass who got very little airplay himself once remarked "Touring can make you crazy". The danger of thereby developing intermittent strangeness of the mental process would seem to be substantially increased by this policy, which would also deliver them right back into the got-to-tour-to-sell-the-records/got-to-sell-the-records-to-finance-the-tour noose that they've just got themselves out of. The Clash are almost messianic in their intensity when it comes to 'providing an alternative' on the US live circuit. "Maybe they'll just think we're Van Halen with short hair," Strummer will surmise grimly. "Maybe they'll just be grunging out on the bass and drums and guitar." "Maybe we could put on false beards and stovepipe hats and stick pillows up our T-shirts," suggest Mick Jones helpfully, "and put out a nice country and western song to get on the radio there...then we could do some dance stuff for the hipper areas..." Three the hard way. I mean, up the hill backwards isn't half of it. In terms of conventional careerism, The Clash are nuts. They are a gang of loonies. They are out of their fucking minds. They have created an objective which virtually by definition debars them from utilising crucial means necessary to achieve it. If they doubt their ability to get successful without getting sucked in, then they'll set it up so that they won't succeed. In other words, not getting sucked in is more important than succeeding on any but the most stringently proscribed terms. To reiterate: the Clash are totally unreasonable. They work on the principal that the distinction between method and objective is artificial and spurious, and that therefore compromise must be kept to a minimum (noises off: rising murmur of 'CBS! CBS! Train In Vain!' etc). The thing is that the amount of compromise necessary to get a single as hard as 'Ghost Town' or 'Going Underground' on the air does not appear to have been crippling. However, I admire the Clash's intransigence, and the best of Combat Rock is as powerful as anything anybody's done for a while. Long may they continue to piss everybody off. JUST NOW there was almost a minute of uninterrupted gunfire on the radio, and the sound was almost too neatly set off by a police siren outside. Right now everybody's supposed to be jacked up to the back teeth with war fever, but just the same there's that dippy song about peace from the Eurovision Song Contest as Number One single last week and Combat Rock mashing up the album chart. There was a song I wanted to hear just then, but it wasn't on the radio. It went: "It could be anywhere Any frontier Any hemisphere No man's land There ain't no asylum here Go straight to hell, boys." © Charles Shaar Murray, 1982

> ReNamer > Changelog ReNamer 5.60 - Changelog What's new in ReNamer 5.60 : September 15th, 2011 · Fixed problem with ExecConsoleApp function which forced the target process · to freeze if it would send a lot of data to the standard output; · Added a warning that describes sorting problem when renaming folders; · Restored "click to edit" behaviour for the files table; · Added "Repeat" option to the Incremental Serialize rule; · Fixed problem with remembering correct position and size when application · is terminated in the maximized state; · Fixed non-transparent background for Rename button icon updates on Vista and 7; · When "Overwrite files with New Names" option is enabled, the Rename · button changes name to Overwrite and a different icon appears; · Highlight Rename button in red when "Overwrite files with New Names" · option is enabled, in order to warn users; · Right single quotation mark 0x2019 is handled like an apostrophe · in the word by the Case rule; · TIFF_* meta tags can handle Unicode filenames; · Image_* meta tags for TIFF files can handle Unicode filenames; · Added Image_AspectRatio meta tag; · Replaced ugly font arrows in the toolbar with icons; · Changed shortcut for Presets Manager to Ctrl+P; · Added explicit option to sort by path in reverse order for renaming folders; · Files table will use default system images for checkboxes; · Fixed column resize problem due to a bug in Virtual Treeview; · Updated Virtual Treeview component to v4.8.7; · Fixed inability to handle hight resolution scrolls by the files table; · Added Refresh button with F5 shortcut to the Add Folders dialog; · Option to fix conflicting new names will not strip path from the new name; System settings are applied in a less access dependant manner: · Register preset extension, · Add to folders context menu, · Add to "Send To" context menu. · Failure of applying system settings will not cause other settings to be lost. · Fixed incorrectly saved configuration for multiple instances of Rearrange rule; · Fixed incorrectly updated counter for "reset every" option in Serialize rule; · Fixed problem with not saved settings when using the Exit menu option. · Eliminated problem with SHA1 implementation, affected some files larger than 1GB; · Now using Delphi Encryption Compendium (DEC) v5.2 hashing algorithms; · Added SHA256 and SHA512 meta tags; · New layout for the Help drop-down menu; · Shortcuts Alt+F and Alt+I were changed to Ctrl+F and Shift+I, accordingly; · Icon added for "Count marked and selected files" option; · About dialog got a new color scheme; · Fixed incorrectly used counter for the display of hourglass icon, · which caused the hourglass icon to appear indefinitely; · Selected file names will be loaded into newly added Remove and Replace · rules as sample text (experimental, may be removed later); · Added BoolToStr function to PascalScript; · Added option to reset serialization index every N files; · Eliminated unnecessary calls to apply rules in Analyze dialog; · Added legal notice in the about dialog; · Font size in PascalScript editor is increased to 10 points; · Added support for #0 separated values in ID3v2 tags; · All calls to help files and web links will be verbose on error; · Improved backwards compatibility of presets due to changes to Skip Extension · option in the Insert rule; · Wiki link points to a page dedicated to ReNamer as opposed to the main page; · Skip Extension option in the Insert rule will work for the whole rule; · User Manual is replaced by Wiki links and accompanying Quick Guide; · New About dialog, list of changes moved to a text file; · Rule names are now localizable; · Added new Rearrange rule, to easily manipulate filename parts; · Removed *.MSI file signature, was clashing with DOC/PPT/XLS; · Removed *.VOB file signature, for better recognition of *.MPG; · Image_* meta tags can handle Unicode filenames, except for TIFF files; · New GIF_Frames meta tag, to read number of frames in GIF file; · New AVI_VideoCodec meta tag, to read AVI video codec name; · Added "Insert a space in front of capitalized letters" option; · Added option to append a preset, from the Presets Manager; · Validation limit warning is removed in command line renaming mode; · Fixed problem with WidePosEx when SubStr parameter is empty; · Fix spaces option will handle all Unicode white spaces; · Added English characters as a predefined option to Strip rule; · Added "Strip all characters except selected" option to Strip rule; · Added StrToFloatDef and FormatFloat functions to PascalScript; · Added WideCopyFile function to PascalScript; · Added "Export all columns to clipboard" option; · File path and date related meta tags made to work for folders; · Translit will not upper case output part if input part is none alphabetic; · Columns for rules are correctly auto-sized with many rules loaded on startup; · Automatic resizing of files table will also apply after removing files; · Analyze dialog will leave trailing spaces in the output intact; · Auto preview on change options are disarmed during command line renaming; · Updated icons for "+" buttons in all rules; · Added two new columns in files table: Size KB, Size MB; · Fixed incorrect sorting by size for files larger than 2GB; · Fixed incorrectly loaded filter masks from presets; · Added "Export to Clipboard" option to rules context menu; · Added German translit alphabet; · Added File_FilePath meta tag; What's new in ReNamer 5.50 : May 5th, 2009 · Updated PascalScript component to the latest SVN from 11 November 2008; · Updated Virtual Treeview component to v4.7.0; · Updated hashing functions to use Fundamentals Hashing unit v3.06; · Reset Unicode flag for the manual filename editor in the files table; · Added date-time offset functions: IncDay, IncHour, IncMinute, IncSecond, etc; · Updated binary signatures for FLV/SWF and MP3 files; · Added 24 new binary signatures, making a total of 93 records; 4 Meta tags for Outlook Messages: ID, DateSent, Subject, Sender; · Added ShellOpenFile() function to open files via ShellExecute API; · Another type of apostrophe is added to Case rule: Acute Accent 0x00B4; · Fixed incorrectly adjusted time zone by the Email_DateSent tag; · Fragments in the Case rule are replaced as Whole Words only; · Delimiter for fragments is changed from space to comma; · Speeded up generation of random numbers in Serialize rule; · Unnecessary fields are automatically disabled in Serialize rule; · Translit Alphabets will handle UTF-8 BOM correctly; · Tab characters in PascalScript statements are replaced with spaces; · Added "Insert after the current name" option to UserInput rule; · Text in "Go To Line" dialog is added to resource strings; · Improved exception handling for several dialogs; · Updated French and added Bulgarian translit file; · Analyze dialog now has line number and position from left and right; · Corrected behaviour of "No" action in the meta tags confirmation dialog; · Correctly handle renaming when user adds trailing path delimiters to new name; · Added "Files" button above files table which brings up its popup menu; · Auto preview on change of rules will not trigger on change of unmarked rules; · All relative "." and ".." directories within new path are resolved; · Added "-" (hyphen) to the CleanUp rule; · Corrected ambiguous Kb/Mb/Gb to KB/MB/GB; · Enhanced main icon using vector graphics; · Rearranged file menus and options; · Core code optimizations and cleanup; · Corrected few typos; What's new in ReNamer 14-Jan-2009 Beta : January 20th, 2009 · Updated PascalScript component to the latest SVN from 11 November 2008 · Added date-time offset functions: IncDay, IncHour, IncMinute, IncSecond, etc · Updated binary signatures for FLV/SWF and MP3 files ShellOpenFile() function to open files via ShellExecute API · Another type of apostrophe is added to Case rule: Acute Accent 0x00B4 · Corrected ambiguous Kb/Mb/Gb to KB/MB/GB · Enhanced main icon using vector graphics What's new in ReNamer 5.40 : October 27th, 2008 · Integrated Windows XP Manifest to allow visual styling; · Modified ID3v2 libraries to support reading of the unicode data (experimental); · Added reading support for ID3_PartOfSet tag in ID3v2 libraries (experimental); · Added "open containing folder" option to the context menu of the files table; · Main menu and toolbar shortcuts are no longer available when editing new name; · No more error when using empty Replace or Remove rules in wildcards mode; · Added/changed a number of shortcuts in the options and files context menu; · State column is sorted by file status and then by marked/unmarked state; · New Project action will clear files and then rules, escaping auto-preview. · Rule descriptions are added to the localizable resource strings; · Right-to-left character-wise processing of delimiters if reversed; · Status bar panels are resized automatically with the form; · Changed ambiguous Ctrl+Z,X,C,V files manipulation shortcuts; · Fixed offset when using Insert rule with right-to-left position; · Added option to disable confirmation dialog for overwriting files; · Auto apply rules option in Analyze dialog works on context menu too; · Corrected handling of double clicks and right clicks on rules checkboxes; · Fixed mark/unmark all rules option not triggering auto preview; · Fixed disappearing modified star after cancelling save preset dialog; · Fixed contradiction between Importing feature and Auto Preview option; · Fixed some cropped texts when custom system fonts are used; · Both ' and ` are handled when capitalizing words; · Added line wrap option to the Analyze dialog; · Added French translit alphabet. What's new in ReNamer 5.30 : July 4th, 2008 · Added ability to save Filter Settings together with a Preset; · Added split panel in status bar to display current preset and modification sign; · Added dialog for creating links to all presets, with load and rename options; · Integrated dEXIF libraries to parse EXIF tags (works on problematic JPEG files); · All EXIFtags should work on TIFF files too, alternatively to TIFFtags; · Added 5 IPTC tags: ObjectName, Caption, Headline, Location, City; · Fixed problem with setting the files date on Windows 9x platforms (v5.10 bug); · Fixed access violation when importing file paths and new names (v5.xx bug); · Fixed bug which stopped the largest binary signature from being detected; · Updated binary signature detection to support Unicode filenames; · Added IntToHex, HexToInt and HexToIntDef functions to PascalScript; · Added Base64Encode and Base64Decode functions to PascalScript; · Added a script to encrypt filenames using XOR-BASE64 algorithm; · Option to highlight changed names is now case sensitive; · Added "fix conflicting new names" option to the Options menu; · Added shortcuts to buttons in PascalScript rule; · Added "none of the above" option to Case rule; · Fixed few spelling mistakes; What's new in ReNamer 5.10 : October 15th, 2007 · Windows network files renaming support; · Added "new path" column to the files table; · Added "auto apply rules" option to Analyze dialog; · Added "right-to-left" option for position parameter in the Insert rule; · Added "leave delimiter" option for delimiter parameters in the Delete rule; · Selection is displayed for both In and Out text boxes in the Analyze dialog; · SetFileTimeModified and SetFileTimeCreated will also work for folders; · Fixed disappearing table menu after editing new name via "click through"; · Added two Russian translits, with alternative and extended Latin spellings; · Added "clear not changed" option to the files table; · Added "new project" menu item, with Ctrl N shortcut; · Analyze dialog in now Unicode capable; · Some of the icons are updated; What's new in ReNamer 5.05 : September 17th, 2007 · Added "Exif Date" column to the files table; · Dialog for analyzing sample text is now resizable; · Added html-based "Quick Start" guide to the Help files; · Show "Quick Start" guide prompt on the first time run; · Added "Prepare for SharePoint" option to CleanUp rule; · Fixed potential incorrect date comparison for sorting procedure; · Fixed "Clear files table on rename" option, did not work properly in some cases; · Fixed rare false invalid by validation for Non-ASCII filenames (v5.00 bug); · Fixed hidden rules table when "Remember last position and size" used (v5.00 bug); What's new in ReNamer 5.00 : August 21st, 2007 · Added "Masks" option to the Filter Settings; · Updated VirtualTreeview and TntUnicodeControls components; · Added Command Line Renaming parameter, to rename without user interaction; · Added Mark and Unmark All options to context menu of the rules table; · Installer updated: default scripts, translits and help files will always be overwritten; · Height of the rules table is remembered for "remember last position and size" option; · Fixed problem when "Filter Settings" dialog opened within "Add Folders" dialog; · Added experimental option "use natural order sorting algorithm" (2-3 times slower); · Fixed problem with usage of ":" and "" symbols in some of the rules; · TIFF tags are no longer represented by EXIF tags, as it may be misleading; · More meta tags will now work with Unicode filenames and contents; · Last used folder in the "Add Folders" dialog is remembered; · Added WideCaseCapitalize() and WideCaseInvert() to PascalScript; · The checked state of the rules is saved in the presets; · Fixed problem with relative paths passed via the command line; · Added WMA and FLAC artist/title/album/year/genre/track meta tags; · Audio_Duration* tags work for FLAC files; · Improved new filepath validation; What's new in ReNamer 4.65 : May 21st, 2007 · Added "Pad numeric sequences" preloaded script; · Added WideStripExtension() function to PascalScript; · Reserved filename characters can be used within date/time format; · Fixed cut off problem with long texts for big blue labels; · Added notes on backreferences in regular expressions help file; · Corrected offensive/ambiguous terms for translit alphabets. · Added donation link to the help menu What's new in ReNamer 4.17 : October 4th, 2006 · New Names from User Input functionality has become a dynamic rule; · Added option to Insert text after or before every occurrence of a text fragment; · Added option to count marked and selected files (Alt I); · Analyze Text dialog is able to parse multi-line texts; · Corrected several typos in the rules descriptions; · Small cosmetic changes to the Add/Edit Rule form; What's new in ReNamer 4.15 : September 11th, 2006 · Added new PascalScript function WideFileSize to retrieve a size of a file; · Help window is no longer modal (doesn't block other windows when opened); · Skip extension made optional for the CleanUp rule, instead of default; · Invalid meta tags or text with escape symbols will not be stripped out; · Added new option to the Settings: Real-time update of the preview; · Added new PascalScript functions ExecuteProgram and ExecConsoleApp which let user run an external program or a console mode application providing captured output and exit code; What's new in ReNamer 4.10 : July 23rd, 2006 · Added checkboxes for rules, to enable/disable rules without deleting them; · Files that are not marked will not be validated, previewed or renamed; · Fixed not synchronized states for files table and files objects on rename; · Fixed incorrect validation when absolute paths are sed in new names; · Fixed incorrect capitalization of letters infront apostrophe in the words; · Fixed waiting cursor and memory leak on exception in the preview process; · Added skip extension and case sensitive options to Replace and Remove rules; · Added mark by mask option to the context menu of the files table; · Added WideGetChar function, workaround for a bug in the PascalScript which doesn't let access characters of a WideString by their index, e.g. WideString[I]; · Added WideLength, WideSetLength, WideCopy, WideDelete, WideInsert, · WidePos and WidePosEx functions to correctly treat WideStrings; · Added WideSplitString function to split string into an array of strings; · Added WideScanDir function to scan directory for files · Updated many other PascalScript Unicode functions; · Updated help file for the Regular Expressions rule; What's new in ReNamer 4.00 Final : July 3rd, 2006 · Added ability to sort files by State column, comparing state indexes; · Added options to control the default behavior of adding folders; · Reorganized Settings window, some options moved, few tabs renamed; · Fixed not working selection by extension (4.00 related bug); · Fixed a problem with WideUpperCase and WideLowerCase not functioning correctly on Windows 9x platforms, due to issues in Delphi system units, which broke all case-related functionality for Windows 9x (4.00 related bug); · Fixed access violation problem when using Browse dialog on Windows 9x platforms (4.00 related bug); What's new in ReNamer 4.00 RC1 : June 19th, 2006 · Now Supports Unicode, using Tnt Unicode Controls!! · New Faster and Nicer looking Virtual Treeview component for Files table! · The Core is redesigned and is more-less separated from the GUI; · Dramatic improvements to the speed of adding large amount of files; · Added ability to sort files table columns by clicking on them; · Absolute and relative paths can be used in the new name; · Added short user friendly description to every meta tag; · Added Drag and Drop support for moving items within Files and Rules lists; · Combined the Add Folder and the Browse Dialogs into a single Form; · Columns in the files table can be moved, simply by dragging them; · User can hide/show columns in the files table using column's right-click menu; · Help messages are separated and converted to html files, displayed as web pages; · Fixed Tab Order for the Rules configuration, it follows the components layout; · Jpeg Exif structure tag was reverted back to DateTimeOriginal from DateTime, · while ReNamer's Exif meta tags were renamed to EXIF_Date and EXIF_Time; · Added File Signature meta tags, which can detect correct file extension and · description for about 70 different data file formats; · Fixed displaying of the file overwrite prompt dialog when saving a default preset, · while using the "Save rules configuration on exit, load on startup" option; · Cursor is set to Hour Glass for long operations like Preview, Rename, etc; · Improved Unique Random indexing of the Serialize rule: faster search of the · new unique number, and breaks when search for unique number takes too long; · Updated all registered functions for PascalScript to handle Unicode strings; · Added option to export list of files and undo paths, to Undo renamed files later; · Added 10 new IsWideCharXXX functions for PascalScript, to check if a Unicode · character is Upper, Lower, Digit, Space, Punctuation, Control, Blank, Hex Digit, · Alphabetic or Alpha-Numeric; and 4 Unicode Conversion routines: WideToAnsi, · AnsiToWide, UTF8Encode, UTF8Decode What's new in ReNamer 3.30 : May 8th, 2006 · Updated Presets Manager, added Load and Copy functions; · Updated Save Preset dialog, added list of existing presets; · Added options to Copy and Cut files from the table to Clipboard; · Filename of the INI file is constructed from the Filename of the Executable; · Improved speed of loading list of files from PLS, M3U and TXT files. · Loading New Names from Text File is combined together with User Input; · Dates & Times (Created and Modified) of the Folders are displayed correctly; · PascalScript Examples are savable/loadable scripts; · Translit Alphabets are savable/loadable text files; · Faster processing of Meta Tags; · Added Email_TimeSent meta tag; · OLEInfo* meta tags were renamed to Document*; · Fixed memory leak after processing Document* meta tags; · Fixed problem with displaying size of the files bigger then 2Gb; · Fixed incorrect sorting by Last Modified Time What's new in ReNamer 2.35 : March 10th, 2006 · text fields in rules configuration resize with the form; · added 'Step' option to Incremental Serialization; · added 'Skip Extension' option into Remove rule; · small optimizations to renaming process; · improved performance of undo process; SUBMIT PROGRAM | ADVERTISE | GET HELP | SEND US FEEDBACK | RSS FEEDS | UPDATE YOUR SOFTWARE | ROMANIAN FORUM Softpedia® and the Softpedia® logo are registered trademarks of SoftNews NET SRL. | |

> Other Office Tools > Depeche View Lite > Changelog Depeche View Lite 1.5.3.2 - Changelog What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.5.3.2 : May 2nd, 2012 · CHG: Jumping through search results by Left Button and Mouse Wheel, or by SHIFT and Mouse Wheel is now disabled by default. It was invoked accidentially too often, especially on notebooks with a touchpad emulating a mouse wheel. · The functions can be reactivated by editing the config file (search for jumpresultsby ...). chg: back button now supports up to 15 steps. · add: assistance popup on word: option to use external text editor instead of internal one. · fix: dview c:\ from the command line didn't work. · fix: maximize of master frame window: setup and other dialogs were placed at wrong positions. new size of overall area was not stored on program exit. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.5.3 : April 23rd, 2012 · CHG: MAJOR CHANGE IN DEFAULT BEHAVIOUR: AutoFilter mode is now active by default, because filtered views are basically the same as a search result list in every editor, and common practice. In AutoFilter mode, filter button no longer shows an "A", as this is now default. Instead, disabling AutoFilter now shows three dots on the filter button. · CHG: USAGE CHANGE: SHIFT+Cursor and CONTROL+Cursor: SHIFT+CursorDown/Up now ALWAYS scrolls fast through the text, no matter if search term is given or not. CONTROL+CursorDown/Up no longer cycles view contents but jumps to next/previous search result. To cycle view contents, CONTROL+CursorLeft/Right can still be used, or the new button at right top. CHG: FUNCTION KEY CHANGES: · F4: toggles filter view · F6: toggles file list view · F7: toggle case sensitive search · F7+CTRL: disables syntax highlighting · F8: search for "class ..." · F9+CTRL: pro: open empty notepad · F10: pro: open file in associated app · F12:minimize all windows CHG: delay of search with mouse on bookmarks: · is now disabled by default, to avoid irritation of first time users. must be activated via setup / general / delay search ... default wait time changed to 5 sec. · chg: right click on frame mode button now enters overscan even if already in isolated views mode. · chg: ctrl+shift+s now always saves bookmarks and configuration even if in edit mode. · chg: text copy to clipboard: no longer echoing string but showing number of characters. full statistics with lines and words now available via stat button. · chg: delete of bookmark now always sets current bookmark to that slot. · chg: while an info text box is shown at the right bottom, ESCAPE key now closes this instead of the current window. SHIFT+Escape still forces window close. · add: stop horizontal shift button, shown whenever screen is blank due to shift+cursor right movement. · add: default syntax highlights: added .m and .mm file extensions as another c source dialect. · add: Pro: user script commands to allow remapping: toggleCaseSearch, toggleFilterView, toggleFileList, minimizeAll, helpText · add: full line copy to clipboard now highlights copied text line temporarily. · add: click on bottom statistics button (near next result) now shows a permanent statistic. · add: clear button for find mask in full sized window if find mask is non-empty. · add: click on ": >" of "find:" now clears the find mask. click on ": >" of "path: " now clears the path mask. · add: file list button. · add: stop load button. · add: when disabling assistance mode by a right click on the assist button, scrollbars in vertical tiling are now also disabled. · add: feedback on maximize, vtile, reset layout with only a single view. · fix: border resize click now also possible with text under mouse cursor at right side border. · fix: unexpected blank screen in filtered view after change of search scope. · fix: unexpected resize of left side view after deleting bookmarks in that view. · fix: usage of bookmarks across multiple views: random change of current insert position depending of most recent activated view. · fix: current bookmark selected incorrectly after bookmark delete. · fix: change bookmark font from pulldown menu. · fix: assistance mode: selection of long phrases never produced a popup menu. · fix: assist popup: unwanted activation of editor with specific selected phrase lengths, edit icon appeared directly under mouse cursor. · fix: ctrl click into top line with current filename did nothing with assistance mode active. · fix: bookmarks import form clipboard: no longer keeping old bookmarks if list was shrunk. · fix: ctrl+f find dialogue: cursor jumped to left when starting search with auto filter. · fix: open menu entries unselectable if text underneath. · fix: change of result focus line now highlights that line temporarily. · fix: jump of cursor to screen top after selection of a pulldown menu entry in master frame mode. · fix: configuration changes are now saved instantly when closing setup dialog. · fix: text over bookmarks display: pure blank text no longer overwrites bookmarks. · fix: window activation with master frame mode: on application reentry two views shown as active. · fix: auto reset of find mask: grayed out find mask is now reactivated on every click into bottom lines of view. · fix: click on bottom filter button changed focus to path mask unexpectedly. · fix: file list view not shown colorized after view cycle. · fix: search for words didn't start after loading text before word dictionary was completed. · fix: no. of files calculation on initial load. · fix: wrong no. of loaded files info in message log. · fix: narrow of path in filtered or file list view, then close filter, dropped selected path. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.5.2.2 : February 27th, 2012 · fix: browse with depeche view from explorer failed to load from folders with blanks in their name if subdir filters were active · add: Setup / workspace: option to apply sub dir and filename loading filter also on startup when loading by drag+drop onto dview icon · chg: dview.exe no longer writes an uninstaller when Setup / Register Depeche View is selected. uninstaller is written only during installation of DView Pro · fix: correct detection of C:\Program Files folder under Win7 to avoid creation · of dview-config.txt therein · fix: never use a dview-config.txt located somewhere in C:\Program Files, even if this location is listed in the PATH or if it's parallel to dview.exe · fix: Setup / add popup menu entry: now showing info text if admin rights are required What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.5.1.2 : January 23rd, 2012 · add: dview lite: highlight a word temporarily by Alt over is now mentioned in the pulldown menu and the main help text. · chg: dview lite: text editing now possible up to a maximum of 10 loaded files, or 10 MB of total loaded text. · fix: jump back to recent text position sometimes did not work from within filtered view. · fix: temporary word highlights by Alt key: now uses the case sensitivity setting from mode menu, case insensitive by default. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.5.1 : December 2nd, 2011 USABILITY CHANGE: · highlighting of words by DoubleControl or CONTROL+H: by default all highlights are now GLOBAL, across all views, in the same color. This allows · faster and easier text comparison than before. For the old behaviour, see Setup / General /ocal word highlights USABILITY CHANGE: · right click on the clip button no longer loads text, this is now done by a · left click. a right click appends text CHG: · Clipboard Automation No Longer An Official Feature · By default, clipboard automation is now disabled as long time tests have shown that the functionality can not be guaranteed. The feature can be reactivated by Setup / General / enable clipboard automation but it may work or not, and is totally unsupported CHG: · Depeche View Pro now comes with an installer · add: assistance mode: top toolbar with back/forward next/previous search result and filter button · add: statistics field in dashboard near next/previous search result buttons. shows detailed text infos on mouse over or click DEL: · removed easy settings button and documentation · if you still need it, shift+control+click on the statistics field next to next result · chg: find next search result in editor: if no more hits in current text, now continues to search globally across all selected files · chg: improved layout with graphical separation of top lines · chg: assistance mode popup: click on bottom of file more than once now jumps over file starts · fix: editor: save, stop edit buttons did not show tooltips on mouse over · fix: sending a search into a view sometimes produced unexpected message "on bookmarks" with delay · fix: many detail improvements in status text display · fix: next or previous result by (CTRL+)F3 after CTRL+Z or end edit did nothing · fix: ctrl+z after filtered view creation did not · jump back to text before search · fix: no longer showing file list if there is · only one file What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.5.0.3 : October 14th, 2011 · fix: dview -dir anydir -file foo*.txt did not select files with extension .txt What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.5.0 : September 16th, 2011 · opt: reduced text file loading time. · chg: global autosuggest dictionary creation after loading, while there is no user input, to further reduce loading times. · chg: unintentional press of ctrl+blank while editing text now simply inserts a blank. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.9 : August 23rd, 2011 · Added assistance mode for beginners: popup menus on left click on a word, or right click on blank space. Some bugfixes. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.8.5 : July 29th, 2011 · fix: overscan mode selection by shift+click on square button didn't work. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.8 : June 17th, 2011 · FIX: crash on clipboard automation: after closing any window and then, for example, reloading the config, the next clipboard event caused dview to exit due to endless recursion. · CHG: mouse text surf improved. it is now possible to start text surfing also by a left click into words, if the mouse is moved vertically afterwards. if it's not moved, one click search or edit can be used. · CHG: Depeche View Base renamed to Lite. · chg: now stopping all file monitors on start edit in any view. · chg: clipboard automation: automatic deactivation if event receiver window (the first view) is closed. · chg: clipboard automation: after copy to clipboard, any incoming clip events are now ignored for 750 msec by default, as the own clipboard write may cause such events. · chg: more tolerant single click detection, to allow easier one click editing even if the mouse is moved slightly. · add: optional inversion of text surf direction through Setup / general. · add: help text: how to cross copy words, move text between views, auto insert. fix: automatic close of all editors on : · reload of single files · clipboard loading · word wrap toggling · file monitoring · fix: filemon kept running even without a matching file. · fix: setup dialog: registration of all file extensions via all checkbox didn't work. · fix: .jar and .tar extension registrations were mixed up, showing the wrong file association active in the setup dialog. · fix: dview base now tells that registering of file extensions is a pro feature. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.7 : May 30th, 2011 · chg: Reduced code size of Depeche View Base. · add: Depeche View Pro Demo, a 30 days trial version. · add: Pro editor: duplicate current line by CTRL+SHIFT+C. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.6 : March 24th, 2011 · WORD search operator. allows to search single words made of alpha numeric and "_" characters. · add: Display Cache for faster scrolling, especially in text with long lines containing many different colors, like HTML source code. · add: global word higlight across all views by holding SHIFT and then DOUBLE CONTROL on a word. · add: editor SHIFT+ENTER within a line now creates a new blank line below. · add: editor: CTRL+D to delete current line. · chg: loading of SFK SnapFiles is now possible only if a single SnapFile is selected for Open or Append or if it uses the default file prefix :file: All other (undocumented) options have been dropped to enforce a clean and safe loading process. · fix: mode menu change no longer selects bookmark below. · fix: editor: mode menu changes no longer change the edit cursor location. · fix: editor: noops, noseq button no longer stops edit. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.5 : January 18th, 2011 · ADD: dview-config.txt can now also be placed into My Documents\DepecheView OR My Documents (at top level) and will be found therein on startup, if no other dview-config.txt exists in the PATH or parallel to dview.exe. · add: Setup / config: SHIFT click on create button · always creates the config within My Documents. · ADD: New Setup and File Filter Dialog, allowing to edit most DView settings within the GUI. · ADD: Automatic storage of settings in config file. Whenever a setting changes, DView will write the config file whenever the user presses CONTROL+S OR on program exit · CHG: All config file entries active by default, no longer using out-commented entries in the default config file. This way DView knows where to write changed entries otherwise it must append them at the end of an existing config file). · NOTE: it is recommended to create a new config file through Setup / Create to ... then copy your scripts into that. CHG: some config file entries renamed: · "case" -> is now "casesearch" · "accent" -> is now "accentsearch" · "punct" -> is now "punctsearch" · old syntax is auto converted. · DEL: config file entry "context" is no longer supported to keep the config file structure easy. · DEL: config file entries for a background image are no longer mentioned in the default config file, as text can never be displayed correctly with an active background image. · DEL: config setting "filteronctlf" no longer mentioned. · DEL: environment variables for command execution are no longer supported. use "on key" scripts instead. · CHG: filenames relative to the startup directory are now shown as relative names by default. can be configured under Setup / general. · add: user scripts: echo "foo": quotes are now stripped on command execution. escaped quotes \" are supported. · add: config: cursorblinkspeed setting to slow down the blinking speed of text editor's cursor. · FIX: editor auto indentation: wrong indentation when pressing enter near line start. · fix: bookmark loading: locations within foo.cpp may have been relocated into anyfoo.cpp, now the filename start is checked. · fix: ctrl+x on foo.cpp:123 jumped into anyfoo.cpp, now the filename start is checked. · fix: ctrl+enter toggled main font, now it is only ctrl+j as documented. · fix: editor: after selection of a different view, then click stop edit in the current view, text was marked unexpectedly. · fix: double click into find mask entered edit mode instead of changing to insert cursor. · fix: file monitor: always showed bottom of file, now show= accepts both top and bottom. · fix: editor: cursor did not blink permanently. · fix: text overwrote position indicator at right border. · fix: when selecting alternative main or bookmark font, sometimes the wrong font was changed. · fix: bookmark font selection now also allows non-fixed pitch fonts. · fix: file loading filter button display. · fix: config entry "separatorline" using "==="... produced an invalid error message What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.4 : November 6th, 2010 · chg: ctrl+x jump to "Filename:lineNumber" with ambiguous filenames now jumps to the file nearest to those containing the File:line text. · add: relative startup window size configuration, set the windows size to whole desktop minus some space by config entry "space" or command line option "-space". · add: command line option -max to cover whole desktop. · add: help text: compiler integration by example, to turn DView into a low overhead IDE. just type "compiler integration" in the help text. · add: config setting "highresultline" to highlight whole result line by default when stepping through search results by F3. · add: option -edit to edit instantly from start if only a single file is loaded. · add: user script commands: toggleFindHighlight - toggle full line highlight of search result toggleFilterHighlight - toggle word hits highlight in filtered view dialogAddMark - open Add Word Highlight dialog · chg: repeat edit with mask phrase search: if a phrase like foo*bar was searched and then edited instantly, CONTROL+R will now repeat the search for that phrase instead of the replaced word. · fix: priority handling of command line options versus config file entries and env variables. · fix: ctrl+r repeat insert didn't work sometimes. · fix: replace phrases by nothing from find dialog only produced an error message. · fix: editor: quick selection of words by ctrl+lbutton didn't work in lines containing tab characters. · fix: editor: ctrl+r repeat insert of phrase that was cross-copied from other view by control+rbutton didn't work. · fix: editor: cursor down/up produced wrong positions if text was shifted horizontally. · fix: user scripts: "set location file" produced a non-speaking syntax error, now it clearly says it must be: set location = "file" · fix: after block replace by ctrl+rbutton from nearby the ctrl+r replace did not work. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.3 : July 29th, 2010 · add: editor: now search supports full wildcards and patterns like * AND OR NOT. · add: bookmark selection by right button: target view can now be changed by mouse move. · add: config file setting "appexitask" to request confirmation before closing the whole app. · add: middle button click now sends a phrase to left side view. · add: middle button click in filtered view now selects to left. · add: one click resize can now be toggled by Mode button. · add: file monitor user script command, used for automated reload of compiler outputs. · add: ctrl+rbutton in filtered view with open editor in nearby view now cross copies the selection. · add: select bookmark into left side view by middle button. · add: pull down menu when using master frame window. · add: toggling between joined and isolated windows. · add: editor: alt+r repeat edit and keep case of target. · add: editor: optional auto insert mode: instant copy+insert of word by ctrl+lbutton phrase selection within the same editor view. · add: instant phrase copy to nearby editor by ctrl+rclick if any editors are currently active. · chg: improved display under Linux/WINE, however DView now requires WINE 1.1.37. · chg: no longer selection large font automatically on start with a high-resolution desktop. · chg: ctrl+click on a bookmark no longer jumps to that position, but allows to move the bm without jump. · chg: unified search behaviour from within edit mode, ctrl+f find mask now changes global search mask and F3 only uses this mask, independently from any recent CTRL+R edit changes. · chg: config file: dropped resizemode setting, replaced by framemode setting. · chg: javascript syntax highlight now also active by default for file extensions .htm .html .shtml. · chg: with option -lean, the initial window now has 40 percent of the max. width. as long as there is no second window, it can be maximized by F1. · chg: clip button now always visible with showbm. · chg: load show feature removed. · opt: faster block selection in editor. · fix: autoreload stopped instant editing when re-entering an inactive dview window. · fix: file monitor: improved file size change check. · fix: reload "$curfile" lead to error "unknown filename". now quoted filenames are also accepted. · fix: left size one click resize in edit mode now limited to empty text lines. · fix: mode and open menu showed no tooltips. · fix: window resize click was ignored when clicking very close to the left border of a window. · fix: help and clipboard text: superfluous blank line in front of text header removed. · fix: editor block insert: removed additional blanks at line end. · fix: consistency errors while editing same text in multiple views. · fix: shift+rbutton search from editor didn't work. · fix: missing layout reset on send search. · fix: double click on blank layout reset with > 3 views. · fix: multiple editors on same text: stable cursor position. · fix: interal resource overflow when viewing help text with images for a longer time. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.2 : January 30th, 2010 · add: xe: integrated text editor, instant text editing by double click on a word. · add: xe: optional one click edit to edit text by a single click on a word. · add: xe: user functions on numeric keypad keys. · add: xe: support for Razer Naga gaming mouse, which has an integrated numeric keypad. · add: jump to a file location by ctrl+x: now the target window is pulled to front automatically. · add: when loading text in append mode, dview now jumps to the first appended content automatically. · add: info message if tab size is changed by bookmark. config file option bookmarktabsize. · add: user scripts on hot keys: set first.x now addresses the first absolute view. set second.x addresses the second absolute view. set filter on/off switches filter view on or off. set location filename [-bottom] jumps to the given file's content top or bottom. run -min ... now hides the window which is often opened while executing commands. the same applies for runback -min[imized]. · add: option -lean, config option startlean to open the first window non-maximized and centered. chg: user scripts on hot keys: echo now also prints status into the status line. chg: editor: overwrite mode: when typing chars at a line's end, they are now inserted. · fix: left click on a button or menu entry didn't work when the mouse was slightly moved. · fix: reload: text positions within view windows are now kept across reloads. · fix: text wrapping now blocked while editing. · fix: wrap then unwrap of text left a memory leak. · fix: editor: search backward in text lead to blank space at screen top. · fix: editor: enter key at line end in overwrite mode produced error message. · fix: ctrl+i position indicator information was often invisible, is now shown like a tooltip. · fix: tooltip display over buttons: when mouse was moved the tooltip immediately disappeared even while staying on the same button. with mouse devices that send too many events, the tooltip disappeared nearly instantly. · fix: double click detection was nearly impossible with some high resolution mouse devices. now, if clicking within text, the mouse surf is blocked for better double click detection. · fix: double press of right Alt key highlighted words the same way as with double Control key press.as Alt is often used when typing text, this is now disabled. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.1 : September 1st, 2009 · add: mode menu: optional highlight of a word · in all views on alt key and mouse over. · add: optional registering of DView in Windows Explorer. · add: xe: find mask auto suggest, based on · preferred search terms of the user. · optionally, a global realtime dictionary, · which however takes 10 to 30 percent · of additional memory. · add: user's preferred search terms are now stored · in parallel to bookmark files, in a .dvdb file. · add: xe: optional auto reset of find mask after some · time of inactivity. activate this with the new · reset button, or by pressing the PAUSE key. add: bookmark group indendation move: · moving a bookmark to right or left now also · moves the bookmarks of the same group below. · this mechanism can be escaped by holding CONTROL · while moving a bookmark left or right. add: bookmark auto indent on creation: · if a bookmark was selected, the bookmark added · after it gets the same indendation. · add: optional delay of reloading of large files · during an auto reload. see reloaddelayonsize · in the config, and the new setting in the · a blue lreload button is shown to load them later. · add: optional skip of autoreload by pressing SHIFT, · CTRL or ALT CTRL during window activation. · in this case, a blue reload button is shown with · which the postponed autoreload can be applied. · add: dv base/xd: command line options -base / -xe · to select the runmode instantly. · add: config option "loadutf" for experimental · chg: highlight of search results in filtered views · can now only be toggled by ctrl+shift+h. chg: default for F7 is now to set the findmask to: · class* $findmask NOT public $findmask NOT ; · AND to reset the path mask to "", which should · find a c++ or java class instantly, everywhere. · fix: file menu entries were unselectable if there · was underlying text from a filtered view. · fix: config file entries using "=" did not produce · a speaking error message. · fix: autoreset of find mask: now also done on · activation of a view. · fix: startup open button covered log messages · on low resolutions. · fix: filter view line selection and help link clicks · now set the undo position. · fix: selecting a bookmark now sets ctrl+z undo. · fix: -fileset using "names with blanks" did't work. · now such names can be used with double quotes. · fix: large files reload skip now uses on-disk size. · fix: clip autoload menu occasional wrong display. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.4.0 : May 24th, 2009 · add: file open pulldown menu, listing all available open and append functions for direct selection. · add: config option snapautoreload to run an immediate reload scan after snap file load on startup. · add: optional limiting of auto reload file scan. · add: manual word highlighting by CTRL+H. · add: drag and drop of files and dirs from explorer. right to the Open button to configure in detail which files or directories to include during load. · add: syntax highlighting: html detection by first text. · add: .dtd content is now syntax highlighted as xml. · add: single file open dialog, for systems like win2k where open on files may not work. · chg: vertical window size slightly incremented under windows, no change with -linux option. · fix: copy text file to clipboard by ctrl+shift+c: no longer copying the :file: and filename, as in most cases only the content is relevant. · fix: insert into path mask did not adjust cursor. · fix: single file open dialog changed current dir. · fix: file auto reload may have not worked after appending a single file, due to the work dir being changed. · fix: speaking error message on unallowed blanks at line start in the config file. · fix: buttons were too bright for some displays. · fix: status color on initial single file load. · fix: right click on open or append was sometimes not recognized and lead to view creation. · fix: drag+drop of non-existing file blocked append of any content later. · fix: reload of appended binary file content failed. · fix: crash on reload of text containing unexpected binary (null) characters. · fix: wrong window activation status on application change while (re)loading text. · fix: ctrl key was not detected after app change. now always verifying ctrl status even if dview window is inactive. · fix: open, append buttons now react on button up to avoid interference with file open dialog. · fix: .tbz2 files now also detected as .tar.bz2 · fix: reduced display limits on log line outputs. · fix: statistics counter was not reset on repeated loads. · fix: some systems did not allow to select an alternative config or bookmark file. now using a different file open dialog for these cases. · fix: copy screen or file content to clipboard: every line had a trailing blank character. · fix: ctrl+e to open a subfile in external editor: line text containing TAB chars was not found. now, the text with original TAB chars is copied into clipboard before calling the editor. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.3.9 : January 24th, 2009 · chg: USABILITY CHANGE: the load opion buttons "+zip, +bin" etc. are now hidden by default, reduced to a single load option summary button. click on this button to show all load option buttons. · chg: USABILITY CHANGE: CTRL+INSERT in a filtered view no longer copies all filtered lines, but only the visible lines on screen (same behaviour as without a filtered view). Use CTRL+SHIFT+INSERT to copy all filtered lines to clipboard. · chg: USABILITY CHANGE: CTRL+C no longer lists user defined commands (use right click on ukeys button for that). Instead, CTRL+C does the same as CTRL+INSERT, i.e. copy the current visible text lines to clipboard. · chg: USABILITY CHANGE: CTRL+B no longer marks excluded files, use CTRL+K instead. · opt: READ PERFORMANCE OPTIMIZATION: loading text files should now be >= 5 times faster. · opt: search performance optim: using AND together with NOT is now much faster. · add: CTRL+E now opens the current text in an external editor, also in DView Base. Furthermore, the line of text under the mouse cursor is copied to clipboard, to allow an instant jump in the editor to the same line. · add: config file entry "runeditor" to customize the preferred external text editor. · add: config file user scripts: "third." now addresses the third window, if any. · add: CTRL+SHIFT+C or CTRL+SHIFT+Insert copies all lines of the currently active text or filt. view to clipboard. · add: Clipboard Hot Search. click on the new "clip" button to configure automated clipboard loading, or automated searches on every clipboard change. · add: press CTRL+W word wrap the current selected file at the current window width. press CTRL+SHIFT+W to force a streamed word wrap, ignoring single linefeeds, keeping only paragraph endings at double linefeeds. · add: mouse button input test in the setup dialog. · add: xe: user scripts on middle mouse button down/up as well as on extra buttons of gaming mouses. · add: default syntax highlighting of .js JavaScript files. · add: command line option -verbose to tell in detail which dirs and files are selected for loading. · add: SHIFT click on setup now also reloads the config. · fix: reload of empty file produced missing header lines. What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.3.8 : December 12th, 2008 · USABILITY CHANGE: CTRL+F NO LONGER OPENS A FILTERED VIEW. Use CTRL+A instead. CTRL+F now opens a Find dialogue, as it is common to most windows applications, and as it is expected by any new dview user. Existing dview users: if you have permanent problems to re-learn to CTRL+A, you may set a line in the config file "filteronctlf yes" to restore the old behaviour. With this setting active, the find dialog is still available through CTRL+SHIFT+F. · USABILITY CHANGE: CTRL+A no longer toggles autofilter, but CTRL+SHIFT+A. · USABILITY CHANGE: F3 and SHIFT/CTRL+F3 NO LONGER CYCLES VIEW CONTENTS. Use only CTRL+CrSr LEFT/RIGHT instead. F3 now jumps to the next search result, CTRL+F3 jumps to the previous search result, as it is common to most windows applications. · USABILITY CHANGE: filter button: left click now only switches filter on or off, while right click toggles autofilter mode. · USABILITY CHANGE: CTRL+X no longer toggles AND OR NOT search operators, but CTRL+F4. this way three modes are concentrated on F4: case, noseq and operators. · USABILITY CHANGE: Creation of bookmark remarks no longer requires to type text into the find mask. Just press CTRL+R and then enter the remark text. · USABILITY CHANGE: Editing of bookmark remarks no longer requires to type text into the find mask. Just double click onto an existing remark. · USABILITY CHANGE: CTRL+W no longer toggles autoreload, use CTRL+SHIFT+L instead. CTRL+SHIFT+W no longer activates power settings, use CTRL+SHIFT+P instead. · search delay control by CTRL+P: added another stage of 1200 msec, for relaxed input in large projects. · user-defined delay is now included in CTRL+P toggle. · improved help text on double click into find mask. · create view button. · large startup open button. · horizontal tiling: close and open of windows. · overall function reference in the help text, also listing the hotkeys that changed recently. · reload single file now also available by CTRL+F5. · optional disable of subdirectory content loading through a small "-sub" button near "load". · optional loading of hidden and system files through a small "+hid" button near "load". · CTRL+G to jump to a specified line number, or to a location given under the mouse cursor. · prefixing of window title by "" depending on the window location. · automatic selection of mainfont2 (large font) on window size >= 1300 pixels. new config setting "autoselectfont2" to disable this behaviour. · .xpi now also recognized as a zip file. · small bottom buttons for vertical tiling. · line number info on some config file errors. · accent insensitive search (ctrl click on case). · punctuation insensitive search (shift click on case). · optional gray out of excluded text file contents, toggled by ctrl+b or rclick on 1click button. · double click into "find:" or "path:" now toggles insert text into mask mode. · click into "find:" or "path:" now sets cursor. · XE only: user commands on middle mouse button. · F10 default is now to open an empty notepad · message on bookmark creation with hidden bookmarks. · CTRL+P: 0 ms stage removed, 200 ms is the same. · click on previous result from fview now jumps to the last overall search result. · reduced bottom status messages on few space. · mixed mode activation by ctrl+shift+a removed, use only ctrl+shift+p. · bookmark locking function removed (ctrl+l). · easy settings on ctrl+y removed (use ctrl+blank). · F3 in filtered view showed blank screen. · autoreload: now long reloads can be stopped by ESC. · wrong display on click on next from within filter. · wrong button update on horizontal tiling. · when loading files in any other window than the first, no status was shown, and crash when pressing escape. · status message "no matching files" sometimes not shown when entering non-existent filenames in the path mask. · zip file loading: clicking "no" on the load limit popup did not stop loading. · syntax highlight of files with What's new in Depeche View Lite 1.3.6 : June 16th, 2008 · configurable syntax highlighting by config file. · create a config file, then read the comments. · fix: syntax highlighting: .c was taken as css. · fix: append of empty directory produced errors. · fix: deleting characters by pressing DEL in find mask; did not delay the next search. · fix: click on right halve of a bookmark set selector selected wrong set. on rightmost set, error 284282057 may have appeared, going to set 0. · fix: append of snapfiles produced error messages. · performance optimizations, esp. on update and display of filtered views. · one click search mode can now be set selected per view. 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Round Table: The next Palm device 156. 156 Comments OLED! 480P! Woohoo! First post! The next palm device will be the current palm device. The current pre has so much untapped potential. A graphics chip sitting completely dormant. The inability of apps to use the microphone. The inability to record video. Undoubtedly the next big thing from palm will be a giant back of tricks unleashed on the current hardware, along with a speed bumped & size bumped model and/or GSM. GO Preo! Marginally bigger screen. Back to a better keyboard. 3x battery. Faster processor, more ram. SD please. Treo strength radios. A slightly streamlined Treo 7xx. About the same height/width, but a little thinner and lighter. BB went big with Bold/Tour, there is clearly a market for people that need power and don't worry about fitting the device in their purse. Keep three platforms, Pixi for simple, Pre for compact power, and Preo for business users that need the future of the Pre, with the capability of the Treo. No lie! This phone hardware is fantabulous (see the iPhone 3GS and the Droid) but the Pre's got one hand tied behind its back! Get off your duff and start taking advantage of the Pre's GPU! Offload some GUI tasks (animations and the like) to the GPU and the interface will become silky, buttery smoothness. Sure, it won't benefit the Pixie but face it, that's your "entry level" model, no one expects it to be as spiffy as evidenced by the missing WiFi. I know GPUs are pretty powerful these days, maybe that can provide the horsepower needed for smooth video recording too. Face it, the Pre's platform is more than sufficient for new devices over the next 12-18 months *IF* you actually use all the features. (BT keyboard? Hello? Your device supports physical and virtual keyboards, is a BT interface really that hard?) Oh, and if you do release a Pre v.2 with more memory, be sure to source the 1400MaH batteries at the least. Smartphones are power hungry things, I'm not dinging you for that, but for the love of cheese, let's cram as many Watt-hours into the form factor as we can, okay? This Rene person does not nknow what they are talking bout. vertual keyboards suck!! horizontal keyboard are awesome!! end of story You're all wrong :-) Well, not entirely - you agree that the next Palm device has to be a Tier-1, business class flagship. But you're wrong on how to do it: - give it a faster processor, much more memory (removable), and - here it comes - let it support Bluetooth mice and keyboards, and have a connector (dongle if necessary) to drive an external monitor. Voila! A tiny, pocketable laptop substitute. Most hotels can supply an LCD screen, and if this catches on, will also stock BT mice and keyboards for business travellers. I know it'll be bigger; I'm OK with that. I know it'll be heavier to have any kind of decent battery life, I'm OK with that too (hell, I've been dragging my 700P around for years) What about a new version of the Foleo? A webOS version. just my 2 cents. ;-) I honestly reckon they should go there, but I think they need to nail this end of town first. I agree with Rene. We have a slider and a candybar model, so lets go with the one thing we are missing, a slab. Beef up internal storage to 16GB and 32GB and/or throw in removable media. One last thing, add video capture to the device. I mean, come on, what phone doesn't have video capture these days??? I would also add a magnetometer to compete feature for feautre with the iPhone and other Android phones that also have and utilize this hardware (maps and GPS apps that use the magentometer are very cool!). I'm with both of you. But i think Palm needs to leap more than simply 16 or 32..go to 64gb. High rez screen is a must. Like i said before, best hardware possible (within reason) can make growing with an OS much much easier. Oh mighty round table of blind Kabukis, head over to your forum and read! You will find your answer there, and if you look hard enough, the meaning of life I tell you.. Bigger screen, if not, at least OLED. I disagree with Rene Ritchie's idea of getting rid of the physical keyboard. I think that makes the phone/Palm standout amongst all the other iWannaBe's. Definitely keep the physical keyboard, but make it fit more smoothly. I don't personally like the Pixi form factor, but then again some people do. I agree with Dieter, the "cute and pocketable" device has been accomplished, quite well. It's time to move on to something a bit more powerful. Sacrifice the form factor for a mini-SD slot (I don't think that's much of a sacrifice, I think it's more of a software thing). I personally believe Palm didn't want to implement removable media into the software, so they went the route of no expansion slot. It may come into play with later devices as the OS evolves a bit more. In summary: bigger/better screen, ramp up the hardware (more memory/stronger processor), expansion slot, RFID chip... maybe? I like to see another flagship device, now that webOS has matured. A larger and more solid Pre. Slightly bigger screen and keyboard. Video recording a must! Faster processor a must to avoid multi-tasking sluggishness! I wouldn't mind paying more ($299) for a full featured more solid, more memory Pre 2, at all. I definitely can agree with some of the opinions above (except for doing away with the keyboard)... Now adding a virtual keyboard wouldn't be bad, but the physical keyboard is a plus... What is most agreeable is making the Pre bigger in terms of screen size and providing the capability to add more memory. I completely agree with MOST of the above. I disagree with Rene about doing away with the physical keyboard. I'm 23 and don't consider myself an "old folk" by any means, but I DO NOT like virtual keyboards, at all. There's just something about them that feels unreliable. Just my two cents. Give me a T|X2, turned into a smartphone. 480x320 larger screen, 16 GB of RAM, WiFi and cell data, virtual "silkscreen" area for either keyboard or actual (fingertip) Graffiti, full Bluetooth support including keyboard, SDHC or MicroSDHC slot. If you want a physical keyboard, make it a sliding one like the Tungsten T3 or the Pre. Alternatively, I'll take a Pre2, with more RAM, microSDHC, and Bluetooth keyboard. {Jonathan} Easy, the only thing that almost prevented me from getting my pre was the portrait keyboard instead of a landscape one. I just want a landscape keyboard. You can make a bigger keyboard without making the phone bigger. (I like the smaller phone size but do get "screen envy" around my friends with iphones.) Some other things that would be nice would be a second rear facing camera for self portraits and maybe video chatting one day. Moving the speaker to the front would be good. I flip mine over to listen to music but need to flip it back around around for speaker phone. Another thing I ofter wish for is that the button on the front was a roller or trak-ball for on screen navigation. I'm thinking about how difficult it will be to navitage a spreadsheat once documents to go comes along. an alternative would be to put arrow keys and a tab key on the larger landscapte keyboard. Landscape keyboard has always been janky. On every device. Period. Yes, this includes the Droid. It was a brick, but the Helio Ocean did the landscape keyboard pretty well. That's a pretty definitive statement. There have been plenty of landscape keyboards that have worked quite well. HTC has had a hanfull of smartphones with landscape keyboards that worked perfectly. Now, other vendors like Samsung are also putting out landscape keyboards phones. I would much prefer a landscape keyboard to the crampped portrait keyboard. Really? My HTC Mogul and Touch Pro, while running the mediocre Windows Mobile 6 had the best keyboards of any phones I've owned. They were roomy and the sliders never wore out the way the Pre's seems wont to do. A lil larger screen would be nice and a 1GHz processor! With the accelerometer being as quick as it is, i don't think i'd mind having a horizontal keyboard, allowing the screen and phone to be a little larger, but not a pain with a vertical sliding KB... Lets get NVIDIA's Tegra 650 on this badboy! THEN we will see WebOS TAKE OVER One number and one letter: 4G. Take advantage of Sprint's multi billion dollar investment. Faster processor. More memory. And HD with an optional output cable to HDTV's and monitors (a la Zune HD, but better, because it's from Palm). Forgive me for not referencing my coment properly, but I recall someone big at Palm saying all webOS devices will have keyboards. My opinion is that only when the screen is able to physically deform itself will dedicated keyboards go the way of the dodo. Landscape slider with an HD screen and specs to match will be next. After they perfect these form factors (another round or two) they MAY do a brick, but I think they'll do something like a software version of the Foleo, allowing us to operate the phone from a desktop or laptop's web browser. Treo with webOS. Pre? Pre has the professional impact of a disposable razor. Need a Pre on steroids. Hours of battery life, a keyboard that flies, something more than the minimal memory capacity, much stronger radios, better phone interface. Preo! I'd pay big money for a device that ran cleaner than the Pre, let me thumb type comfortably, could really hold and play media and let me run unteathered (or stoned) all day without nervously watching the battery meter. Pre is nice, but the overall power seems to be too proportional to its form factor size. Exactly, I couldnt agree more. I love my Pre, but I feel the Treo went more head to head with Blackberry as a business device. Can't totally say the same thing about my Pre, even though I love it. Give me the Pre's software in a Treo form factor, with a slightly more upgraded interface... and you got urself one hell of a device. In addition to obvious more memory and bug fixes, what I want to see in the next device is the same basic form factor as the Pre but with a larger screen, preferably OLED. A larger screen (3.5 inch is enough) will also provide extra space in the slider for a slightly larger keyboard. While I don't share Rene's option that physical keyboards are dead (just ask Blackberry's growing user base) smaller ones like the one we have on the Pre should be ;) Software wise I'd like to see integrated contacts, ala SenseUI, and if that's not possible, then at a bare minimum a favorites screen in the phone app. Last but certainly not least - better build quality, better build quality, and better build quality... Almost forgot...snapdragon please :) I'd like to see a horizontal sliding keyboard, more internal memory, and a SDHC or MicroSDHC slot. where the heck did my post go? It was the second one posted.. Likes to see on the next Pre: 1. MORE MEMORY! 32GB is stupid easy and cheap now. 2. VOICE COMMAND! Im just not seeing this on the current pre ever but common!! 3. OLED display would be nice and easier on the battery. 4. Faster CPU to like 800mhz. Apparently the OS needs a little more hardware overall than thought. I know ditching a physical keyboard is the easiest way to make a smaller phone but please dont!!! I agree with Deiter that Palm now needs to show that WebOS can produce a powerhouse device too to show its versatility and prowess. This market cares more about firepower than flare. I agree please do NOT remove the physical keyboard. The keyboard is a deal breaker for me. That is the number one reason I went with a Pre instead of an iPhone. I also want to add the video and audio outputs. I want to completely replace my iPod and that's all I need in addition to more drive space. 64GB would be great. I also want the capability to record phone calls. Is that a hardware issue? What do we need to get rid of the ....too many cards open....notice. I want to have so much memory, that I can open 30 cards at once. Well the sluggishness is moreso the fact that the GPU isn't being used at all. They just hired a guy that should help remedy that soon, and we should see a huge performance boost. Voice command, definitely.... especially after seeing the voice-controlled navigation searches on the DROID, that was too ill. MOST important thing I want is a landscape QWERTY, and make it bigger. I'd definitely love a bigger screen, and I want more space for my keys. the small keyboard isn't horrible (to me) but it could be better, and erybody can agree with that. Oh, and SOMEBODYYYY out there figure out some new battery TECH! Please.... the future of mobile devices depend on it.... a larger screen , 3.0 plus inch with a full qwerty candybar with 1 GHz processor will sure kill BB , before snatching the sales from Android. How would a 3.0" screen be bigger then the Pre has now with its 3.1" screen? better build a glass screen more memory video recording Palm needs to do whatever it takes to grab the business crowd away from Blackberry. A good, easy to use keyboard. Master the Exchange support. Get a real package together that supports viewing Office 2007 documents (at minimum Excel and Word). Ditch whichever costly features (camera?) to make it a true competitor with Blackberry in the business world. A business phone would open Palm up to revenue for attachments, such as the bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse mentioned above, charging dock, etc. Make it a phone that top level executives will want, and that cater to their daily demands (exchange support, beefed up calendar/meeting tools, Active Directory sync, etc.). Add WiFi security options. Make it easy to select 'trusted' signals only, so you don't wander into a Starbucks and connect unsecurely. Oh, and make it 4G. For me personal: I'd wished an upgraded Palm Pre. 1) Hardware Keep the basic shape and form factor, but allow a slight increase in form factor (ev a bit thicker and a bit taller). In there put: - OLED display (+contrast, +battery life,-thickness) [nice-to-have] - larger capacity battery (about double or more) [must] - removable memory (eg. mini- or micro-SD) [must] Make it much more robust. (Like my old Nokias: I dropped them so many times, even to concrete or alike. Some scratches, but no damage to case or phone!) [must] 2) Software Get the PIM sorted out!!!!! Hello Palm, did you hear me? Get multi categories/tags for contacts (!), tasks (!), memos, calender items. Get additional sync possibilities. (Eg included standard SyncML I think once the Pre 2 comes out, technology will be much more advanced. They'll be able to make the Pre2 slimmer with the same form factor and a bigger screen. The OLED Display sounds good. Removable memory and around 1500 mAH battery sounds good. I hated the banana look before, but now I consider that as a Pre thing... so I think they should keep it for the originality. I like being able to say "my spartphone looks much different from other smartphones". But overall... -WebOS with video recording and much more functionality. -Bigger OLED display -No hardware screwups please. Hardware and virtual keyboard wanted. -Keep gestures! -I wouldn't mind a wider phone (for a bigger screen). -1500 mAH battery (can last a whole day with heavy usage) The Pre has changed my opinion on slider phones all together. I love the TS and how smooth my lil Pre is, but I also like the fact that I have a full qwerty keyboard to go right behind the screen. The only problem I have is that tiny thing we call the oreo effect. Time to get rid of it by losing the arch and going with the some sturdy rails. Better yet, go the way of the Droid. A phone I am dying to see post-release day. Everything changes after the phones release. The Pre Deuce needs to be at least 3.5" and I think they should go with the horizontal slide for the keyboard. The Droid looks great, but I love WebOS. It's so smooth and fun to use. AndroidOS just seems so plain to me, except for SenseUI, but then there is the lag issue. ANYWAYS. IMO, make the Pre Deuce bigger, with a glass display equal to that of the iPhone. Bring in a solid soft touch keyboard to go with the hard keyboard (i know resources, but why NOT have it as well), keep the qwerty keys (they're like lil bubbles of fun). To be honest, I am almost ready to move on past the hard keyboard, so if Palm does make a Pre Deuce slab, then I am off to upgrade! I could care less for a memory upgrade, 8gb is more than enough for my needs, but an optional microSD card couldn't be too hard to add if you lose the qwerty keyboard and create the slab. The Pre "was" an iphone killer until we all felt the cheap build and the battery issues. Make it bigger, lose the arch, give me glass and firm build, bigger phone means bigger battery space. Don't let WebOS die because you can't build a device worthy of holding this great OS! Just don't let them call it "The Pre Deuce"... I can see the headlines now if they screw something up on the new model... PALM DROPS A BIG DEUCE ON MARKET. Uggh. Wish 1: Slab phone, no physical keyboard. (I agree with Richie.) Even if that doesn't happen, how about a better place for the battery charger port? It's really inconvenient to use on the side... makes it tough to have in car, use while charging, etc. Should been on the bottom and, at the very least, make the audi port on the same side as the charger port. I could not disagree more. Physical Keyboard is a must. It is a must. I couldn't stress it enough. Why don't you like the charger? I charge it in the car all the time and it's extremely convenient. The charger port where it is allows me to drive with the phone on my lap and have the cord to the right of it. If the cord was in another place the phone would be turning and not be right side up. It's in a perfect place. But I must go back to the Physical Keyboard. I bought an iPhone and returned it after 20 days because....Hey no keyboard. And iPhones has the best virtual keyboard out there. It's doesn't beat a physical keyboard. I can drive and with one hand, open the phone and text a message without even taking my eyes off the road because I can feel the keys I'm typing. And if I decide to type with both hands and use my eyes, I can type much faster than I could ever on the iPhone. I agree with both charging port location and keyboard necessity. Hey no offense man. I understand your disagreement. I'm not suggesting Palm move away from keyboards, but I'm answering what I personally would like in another device. Sometimes I love the slider, other times it's an nuisance and an extra step. I think the form factor of the pixi takes care of a lot of that, too. Ideally, I guess I'd rather have the option of a native digital keyboard onscreen (in the meantime, love my patch) in addition to the slider. Bottom line, I guess it's smart to have multiple devices in the line-up for different tastes... some with the keyboard some without. Peace. And nah, hate the location of the charger. For my daily use it's in an inconvenient place. But that's just me. (And don't text and drive.) If the professional market really wanted a virtual keyboard, the Storm would not be the sales shame of the Blackberry family. Tactile keyboards have been the backbone of every professional grade device. 1. OLED screen (3.5 sounds right) 2. horizontal layout 3. 16 gb internal with micro sd slot 4. top of the line processor You get a bigger phone that has more room for a larger battery, more efficient screen technology, and better keyboard = better battery life and overall experience. By upgrading the processor it will make the OS snappier without any optimization needed and we can then wait for the OS efficiency increases as they come. Id pay 400 with a 100 MIR :-) You are aware this processor is the same as the Droid, and on par with the iPhone. The limitation is the OS is in 1.2.1, and the graphics chip in the processor is doing nothing (as in it's not even active). I'd worry less about the hardware, and actually keep cost down going with the same processor while putting more money into the OS developement and getting that graphics chip working. It's not just for games, I would assume the processor would see less stress in videos, and even web page rendering. Basically squeeze everything out of this hardware while reducing overhead cost, and then reinvesting the profits in more devices and more R&D. THIS! I have an interesting thought, but I have not really convinced myself it would be a good idea. What if the Pre II has the same form factor, but not a slider. What it means is that Pre will have a lot of rooms for: * More storage memory * A SD card slot * Bigger battery, maybe a factory 2600 mAh battery * Require virtual keyboard support, meaning with an OS update, Pre would also have it. * More RAM, means more cards can be opened at the same time * Metal volume, sound switch, and power buttons. * Much stronger build Assuming we get the app limit fix and video recording from software updates, my priority is RAM (not storage). I love the form factor and the multitasking, but want to run more web pages while multitasking. OLED would be nice. A higher priority than microSDHC, in terms of the software and handling of file locking currently making removable storage impossible on this platform, is to be able to take a call while synchronizing music and photos. As SirataXero said, I think the reason we have no microSD is more of a software limitation, despite Palm's explanation. who cares...everyone is getting on the adroid kick within a year yes because everyone wants to give up the intuitive easy to use webOS for something that is on par with Windows Mobile functionality wise. troll... Always funny when the "adroid" fanboys can't even spell Android. Really on top of their game. a more costomizable user experience (let me 'tweak' w/o preware), a landscape keyboard, a homescreen that could reorient to landscape, 32 gigs, faster processor, a digital compass, and a more complete development SDK, and I think i'd be satisfied. I agree with everyone except Rene's ideas combined for a beefier Pre II. My thought is to build it Pixi style with less emphasis on making it svelte. Make the Pixi a little thicker. Thick enough to allow something like a 2000 mAh battery! Then use the extra empty space (as seen in extended panels for the Pre) to extend the hardware to Pre-like and better specs. Without the slider mechanism, there should be plenty of room. All the butter of the Pixi form factor with all the power of the Pre, plus an ass kicking battery. I could even deal with the smaller display if I also got the extra power and maybe more memory or an microSD slot. Incidentally, so long as they go with inductive charging, I don't see them offering any sort of solid metallic casing. Perhaps the teflon-like stuff on the first Hero? All in all, if the Pixi's the webOS Centro, then this would be the webOS Treo Pro. The Pre Pro? When Rene Ritchie, Editor,of The iPhone Blog said, "Give me a great webOS mini-tablet with a glass 480p screen, solid build quality, and let the - frankly spectacular - software do the talking." I think that's a good Idea, it would probably be a good Mac or PC alternative, because i almost use my Pre for everything now, from work to play, my computer is just my gaming machine now. Rene's the thinking one here: don't duplicate what you've already done. But Palm needs to be making MORE THAN one next phone at a time. And they should license webos so they can get more phones out and not have to worry about build quality. slab, virtual keyboard only. 5-8 megapixel camera, better flash 64GB memory (or have an SD slot) Battery life 1 1/2 day significant use minimum. photo editor video recording, video editing voice memos voice dial visual voicemail customizable notifications, ringtones, alerts, alarms snycable memos, tasks outlook sync text forwarding no plastic flaps. no flaps at all desktop cradle Fix it's apps: Media Player, Calender. Make a concerted effort to fix the myriad of small things that plague webOS Make it's own desktop sync solution with podcast support, Amazon support. Do whatever it takes to have real iphone caliber games. Make their adds not suck. Simultaneously release on multiple carriers in U.S., Europe, China Again they should be building more then one device and licensing web os. Who will they license it to? Android is free. people license windows. i'd bet people would pay for an iphone os license. Sure free is an incentive but it's not the only one. Why do people not want the physical keyboard? In that case, let's go back the stylus of the old Palm OS. Nothing beats a real keyboard. NOTHING. It has to have a physical keyboard, that is NOT NEGOTIABLE. Because people are trying to get customer's they don't already have Not trying to get more the same pre users, the same palm centro people. And though i like a physical keyboard, iphone has shown you can have a massively profitable phone without a real keyboard. And again they already have a phone with a keyboard. They can make another version of the pre. Even blackberry is offering a keyboardless phone, as does htc, samsung, motorola. The point is to get new users not get the same old ones. And when the biggest selling smart phone has NO keyboard the world is telling you that a physical keyboard is expendable. Stylus, nobody say anything about clinging to old tech and mind you a physical keyboard is old tech. You're way off base. Sorry it's clearly negotiable. I agree, I have enough "hand goo" on my screen without it being a keyboard. Why give up valuable scren space to create a keyboard when Palm keyboards are so great? You realize you just wrote the requirements for a decent PC don't you? We have to be realistic, we can cram a Cray Supercomputer into a candybar sized device (yet ;-). Not at all. if I had described a decent PC i would written: Quad core processor one terabyte internal storage, not 64 GBs 4 Gigabytes of memory Half way decent video card with ddr3 memory. i'd have only required 4 hours of of use A web cam and NOT an 8 megapixel camera, etc. and look at the new Sony Xperia X10. it has a lot of these features including an 8.1 camera... And, assuming they are starting on the phone now it won't be out until next year therefore, the next phone doesn't have to measure up to what's coming out now it has to measure up to what will be being released in say May. So the specs need to be better to impress not the same. I'm totally with you blackmagic01! Palms next device should draw customers that their current products do not. The Pre has a slider keyboard, the Pixie has a fixed keyboard. The only options left are a slab or a landscape keyboard design. Then you have a product protfolio that will draw customers of all prefrences. Why not have a product launch with two of three form factors, all sporting the same internal hardware but with different mechanical designs??? If you really want to take over the market you have to get off a single carrier as well. Sell you device(s) through all service providers. Get those Palm shares back up where they belong! yep. like i said its "next" device. it doesn't have to replace a palm pre with a physical keyboard. do it all. i will never buy a OSKB only phone. Rene is definitely an Apple fanboy. As cramped as the Pre KB is,I can type faster on it and more effeciently than any OSK I have used. Kids don't buy $200 smart phones, they by texting phones for $49.99, and those all still have KBs for the most part, actually they have really good widely spaced, and well designed KBs with horizontal sliders. I would like to see a Pre PRO. With a candybar (pixi/treo) style layout. Big screen (SAME SIZE as the Pre), better KB, I think the KB can actually be the same size, but without the depressed layout and edges it should feel bigger. I would also not mind a horizontal slider and/or a second Pre (II) with a slightly bigger KB and more robust build. Make it 5mm wider space the keys a little more and give them more relief. BTW, the KB on the pre is better if you make the back of the KB thicker. IE put a hard case on it, or add an extended battery. SO DO NOT MAKE THE PRE II KB EVEN THINNER IT WILL BE HARDER TO TYPE ON. Then again, make it thinner, and my extended battery pack will not seem as thick, so maybe make it thinner afterall. Finally, a breath of fresh air. KUDOS to you Pico. A physical keyboard is a must and Palm should not move away from it. i disagree, me and a lot of my friends have bought our own new phones. I got the pre (3rd in line day one, 5am, my buddy the iphone, and my sister got the HTC hero last weekend. Here's a REALLY radical idea.. How about a device that doesn't turn itself into a BRICK when you download what it thinks are too many apps.. even though you have PLENTY of memory on board. Gee I wonder how many geniuses at Palm it will take to come up with that novel concept. It doesn't really matter what they do with the hardware next... If they don't listen to their users and return the speed and functionality to the camera that we were used to with Palm OS since circa 1997, then I won't be using their OS. I'd really like to give them a chance and see what they do in the timeframe it will take them to get the next models out, but I'm going to take a close look at the calendar built in to Android 2 next week, and if it is faster than WebOS's calendar, I'm gone. We need full implementation of HTML 5 incorporated into the webOS SDK. Also we need some deeper low level access on the device, if not then some lower level API to interface with the hardware. Once this is done lets move onto the hardware. (Yes I need full canvas tag support! Darn) Maybe a 840 X 400 WVGA AMOLED screen, and a TI OMAP 4 when it drops. Everything should be supplied nicely with that. I would still prefer the vertical slider. Palm needs to identify something that it does in the mobile space better than anyone else and then go with that, whatever it is. They are a niche player and can not afford to support 3 or 4 different types of hardware. Android is going to do that. They aren't going to have the most/best apps or games. iPhone OS will always have that. Multitasking? Please. That's a switch that can easily be turned on by any other platform. Synergy and cards are really just software enhancements. Keyboard? Perhaps, but we've got more Android keyboards coming. They were not able to make the OS simpler to use because you have to hack the crap out of it to enable standard features. Great hardware design? Not quite. So, Palm, what can and do you do better than any other mobile device platform in 2010 and beyond? So far, I can only identify two things: 1) Be Palm - Leverage the brand identity of Palm; 2) Offer lower cost plans via Sprint. I would echo Derek, plus add bigger battery and a SD slot. The beauty of WebOS is that there is enough to satisfy the geek user and at the same time not intimidate the casual user. Now if Palm will build a true Flagship piece of hardware the rumors of their demise would truly be premature. -Speaker-independent voice-dial that can be initiated from a Bluetooth headset (will buy one as soon as this happens) -Horizontal and more solid feeling sliding keyboard -SDHC or MicroSDHC slot -Improved reliability and stability -Vastly improved PIM Wow I'm a student. I have a laptop on me at all times. I don't need a mini-laptop in my phone/media player. And when I'm out at, oh, I don't know, a dinner/gathering, I need something they can fit on my person or in a bag without me worrying about it. So I'd nix the idea of a tablet unless it's in conjuction with a vastly superior upgrade of the current Pre model (especially one without a keyboard...greasy, pizza fingerprints and screen real estate wasted/resized/moved by the keyboard popping up and having to thus, constantly scroll). You can make it about as big as the iPhone and that's it. I agree on getting rid of the curve and the plastic. I find that the curve makes one handed typing a pain, especially if you'e stuck a case on it. Most importantly, better memory management and more memory. The Pre's memory management is so poor I can't believe it was given the go ahead and for something that claims to multitask, it is incredibly sluggish. Google Maps is a joke. You walk a block and you have to wait 90 seconds for the map to reload. They could improve the media aspects as well. The iPhone has the edge because it had the iPod to build off of, but if the Pre is going to be in the same category, they have to catch up. The Pre is a snail as a media player, scrolling lags (both on this and Remix) and their documentation/playlist/sync support is laughable. And the speed is a problem that I have with only the media player and one of two other apps open. I can't even keep the Web app open in conjunction with anything else, let alone have more than one Web card at a time. Google Reader is hilariously rendered useless. If they can't fix WebOS, then Palm really needs to step up the processor and specs to make the phone more fluid. hey hey hey, lol The *supposed* GPU driver coming will fix the sluggishness. The OS needs to be optimized some more, like CPU scaling, and the GPU needs to be actually, USED! I want to see a solid body with glass and metal, a bigger screen, and physical keyboard. Take the treo pro case ditch tyhe hardware keyboard make the screen larger down to the top of the bottom row of keys ( caps 0 anspace alt and up) keep the 3.5 jack and youd have a 3.5 to 3.6 " screen with onscreen keyboard give it 32 GB or user memory and webos ext monitor and keyboard capable. oh yeah cdma and gsm versions released simultaneously or with cdma and gsm radios enabled. Choose your own nettwork I for one would like to see Palm lead instead of follow. For years there has been talk of an itablet, yet one hasnt materialized. Netbooks are under-powered to be really reuseful. So why not give us something that is large enough to replace a laptop/desktop for an extended period of time, with enough processing power to pull it off, and with a battery that doesnt leave me nervous that I wont make it through the day. While your at it make sure that it has 4G, not just WiMax but LTE, 3G,WiFi. I want to have access to data the way I want it. We shouldnt expect a better iteration of a current device, rather something that is cutting edge, and redefines the segment. Palm is more than capable of producing the WOW factor. Call me simple but I would like text forwarding. Along with some security for little things like locking my pictures or locking my text messages. Anytime you let anyone hold your phone to make a call...after they are finish that is the first thing they go for! So really I just want a lock to have a dedicated lock for things in my phone. But these are things all my OLDER phones where able to do. Why my high-end phone doesn't have that IDK....But that I like to see a a big screen AMOLED horizontal keyboard fast processor micro sd card slot GLASS SCREAN candy bar shape thin round edges I'd like to see Palm master the wrist phone...I've always hated actually carrying my phone in my pocket, or in a holster...I like to wear watches, I use my phone as a watch (YES, getting it out of the holster every time to see what time it is). Something revolutionary in terms of wrist watch usage...not a lot of ideas really. The device would have to be on the same (if not better) level as the pre, with all of the same options...and hey, why not a removable micro SD...so a permanent hard drive is not necessary. Bluetooth devices for querty keyboard texting, stereo music and phone calls, HD camera and video? I might be dreaming...but I'd buy it. Maybe even have an interchangeable case for different outfits...whatchya think?! :) I have it on good authority the next Palm device is going to be an updated Pre. Betcha ten bucks! It took me a while to feel comfortable with the Palm Pre coming from a Blackberry but now I like it and do not want radical changes. I would take a slightly bigger screen and keyboard but do not want a horizontal keyboard. Vertical is better. I like the curve because it feels more like a phone than a piece of rectangular plastic however the oreo effect has got to go. I also want bluetooth support for my keyboard, slightly faster speed and, of course, far better battery life. note: there's no requirement that the next device REPLACE the Pre or even be an improved version of the Pre. The discussion is only "next" palm phone. Hardware: 3.5"-4.5" HD Screen Glass Screen OLED screen Tegra or Sanpdragon More RAM Slightly larger keyboard either in portrait or landscape Overall better build quality microSD slot(Would be fine with less memory in lieu of the microSD card slot but make sure the internal memory is enough to withstand 2-3years of updates unlike Android which some phones may not be able to get past 1.6 let alone 2.0) If no microSD slot then higher memory(Preferably 32gb and 64gb) Higher megapixel camera(At least 5 megapixels) and HD video Longer life battery CDMA world phone capabilities Full GPS(So when you drop coverage you can still use GPS) Software: More native support for the SDK so developers can create richer apps/3d games. Video recording(Which the current Pre better get) Virtual keyboard(Portrait and landscape mode) Ability to sync with Facebook and Google accounts without having to sync all contacts. Google maps navigation :) Software tweaks to bring in some basic features(i.e. custom notifications, voice calling, etc.) Overall performance tweaks(Which have happened) A lot of people have some great ideas for a New Palm phone but I really really wish that they would get on it and start upgrading the things that need to be upgraded on the current Pre. I love the Software upgrades every month or so but the upgrades haven't really brought us the stuff that we need or require. Like Video recording c'mon... Every phone i've ever had has had video recording and this phone is capable of doing it very well, and there is a GPU sitting in there taking up space, do something with it PLEASE! Visual Vocemail!! Voice memo's why can I not simply record a voice memo that's basic. I'm starting to feel kind of silly buying a phone that doesn't have these basic features. I mean I'm the guy that's pushing the Pre on everyone I meet but i'm starting to feel goofy when I have to explain that it doesn't have Video recording. Please Palm... Upgrade the big stuff that everyone WANTS!!!!! PLEASE!!! Make me proud of my new phone again!!!! Exactly! one more addition autocorrect dictionary. editable. Make it go as dark as the iPod Touch does. And light the keyboard easily on the low screen light. Trying to look at it in bed is like looking into a spot light. I turn my backlight above 0% maybe 5% of the time. I'm a huge fan of the current Pre form-factor; when I switched, I swore I'd never go back to a landscape KB. I'd mostly vote for a slightly larger form, in order to get a bigger screen and kb, and to fit a larger battery. the pre needs stronger hardware and a upgrade in the OS: upgrades should include video recording,virtual keyboard, removable memory, text forwarding, basically just add more customizing but keep the OS clean like it is already The Pre is only let down by its build quality and storage so lets have a Palm Premium: Solid Build quality made from a aluminium or tungsten frame and made to last plastics because in this current mobile phone climate we need our phones to last up to 24 months. More Memory. It would be nice to have an SD card slot but lets face it, if apple won't give you one then Palm won't. So 64 Gig storage. Then concentrate on fulfilling WebOS's strengths. Rather than a faster processor lets have a hardware limit indicator. Does anyone remember the software tools that Sony released for the playstation 1? which gave developers hints and tips of how to really push the hardware. It truly set the playstation games apart from anything else and lets face it WebOS is in it's infancy and we are no where near it really flying so let the developers have the tools to achieve this. WebOS is the platform and the true strength that causes people to give it the time off day so improve it or loose it. If all that happens is we push for faster phones then only some of the WebOS users will be happy meaning a smaller amount of people will be singing the praises of Palm. If all the phones get improved through software improvements then every single Palm user will Palm owner will be looking down on iPhone users and beyond as if they are simple amoeba organisms which ultimately is my goal. I can't speak for anyone else of course. Kind of agree on build quality. But I'm wondering if they can't use metallic materials because of the Touchstone. Teflon maybe? Or graphite? Sounds Just the ticket. I'm surprised an independent company hasn't tried to offer a "Pimp my pre" service that scoops out the pre internals and beds them into a premo bling body. No diamonds though... Yak! Well, I have an iPhone and an HTC Touch Pro. So what I like is either the slab-style or a vertical slider. higher resolution screen, MORE SPEED and damn it, put in a better autofocus camera. the integrated one really sucks when coming to taking pictures from serial numbers. The OS needs more APIs so that there can be released more apps. I miss the great apps from my iPhone and YES I also miss the games, like galcon, Civ Revolution, Tap Defense or Fieldrunners and so on... Hardware 1. cortex a9 processor nvidia gpu 2. increased ram 3. 32 gb internal storage 4. expandable memory 5. 3.5 oled display 6. 1600 mah battery 7. fm transmitter 8. blackberry style keys- i dont think the current ones are 9. bad at all but blackberry is better Curve 8330 10. front facing camera/ rear facing camera 8 mega pixel make the camera software better whitebalance editing stuff like that 11. try to incorporate good feel in the hand like our current pre 12. track ball along side somewhere with keyboard better quality speaker 13. obviously better quality outer hardware include some metal and harder plastic 14. 4g radio not sure whether or not to have side or vertical keyboard there are pros and cons to both keep gestures 15. solar panel back battery cover Software make it over all faster virtual keyboard use the gpu video recording you tube upload support all instant messaging paltalk would be cool too flash opengl webgl make it last as an mp3 player maybe something like mp3 mode and video where phone conserves power. do it yourself app maker desktop software to customize webos, add widgets, sync all information,add apps, add music, enough with itunes crap also implement amazon download to software. gaming capabilities improve email task memos and all that stuff lol i know its alot but the competition is just too much palm needs an edge. you can sell crap on a stick as long as you have great advertising if the pre is not selling as hoped its due to advertising nothing else. Pre is a capable phone, but nobody knows enough about it. palms comercials are just plan sad. Like a video editing gone bad. This one is simple. The next Palm device should be built by someone other than palm. Dear Palm, Do *not* listen to those who wish for landscape or touchscreen-only keyboards. Touchscreen is not nearly as usable and landscape requires two handed use. Although the portrait keyboard lacks size, I have found it hardly makes any difference on typing speed or accuracy *Do* offer an expandable memory slot. My music collection is between 10-15GB. It should fit in its entirety on my pre. It is a big pain removing and adding songs as I want them, especially when so many devices exist that would eliminate this issue. Another reason is many laptops/PC's have card readers built in and transferring pictures, etc is so much nicer this way and does not require the lugging along of a micro USB cable. *Do* Improve the battery. I know this is difficult with size constraints. I also know that the Pre is not alone in it's battery life issues. But, it is the number one complaint that I have heard so any improvement here is much welcome. *Do* make necessary software improvements such as Video Recording, Social Networking, and my personal pet peeve (exceedingly annoys the crap out of me actually), make it so Gmail doesn't sync every freaking e-mail address that I have ever sent to! Nothing like having dozens of worthless Craigslist e-mail addy's in my address book! Ugh! I personally don't care that much if you go OLED or even if the screen size goes larger. I think the current screen is beautiful and big enough. I also like the form factor, it fits in my pocket better than any phone i have ever had, it's thickness is just right, and the construction feels relatively solid. I like the idea of bluetooth mouse and keyboard support. That would definately eliminate the need for me to lug around a laptop for several trips. Video out would be cool too, but not nearly as bluetooth input devices would be. So anyway, thanks for the great phone and I look forward to the next edition. Your Friend, -Al Fix the PIM. As someone else said "you are Palm after all". Synchronize tasks and memos. I too like the current size and shape. It does fit "in my pocket better than any phone I have ever had" The USB door just doesn't work right. Less dished keyboard would be nice. Move the camera LED further away from the lens so I can use snap on/stick on lenses. I know that most people wouldn't use this feature, but it would be so cool that it would draw more people to the device. Allow the camera to flip to the front to work with video conferencing. Or provide a front facing lens. Video conferencing. Get rid of the sluggishness. Make it work faster. Make the GPS work consistently. Sturdier slider, but same shape. 4G Support animated GIFs in the browser. Flash Video recording. More memory. Get rid of the app limit. Allow for replacement applications of standard apps. If I want to use a third party music player or email application, let me. Just maybe, make the phone VOIP (can still be with Sprint) so I can use data services while talking on the phone. I like the Pre design. Here's what I'd like to see in a Pre 2: -Make it a bigger. Bigger screen = Bigger keyboard -Faster processor -Get rid of the button on the front (I never use it anyway) & give me a speaker in the front so when I'm watching video the sound is coming towards me instead of backwards. -I don't understand what's wrong w/ the SDK that's slowing down the graphics in games, but that needs to change (I want a Need 4 Speed type driving game!) -I don't actually care much about storage size so whatever's cometetive will be fine. -I like others' ideas about expanded bluetooth connectivity to make it more of a portable workstation Nice, I'll second all of that! This is a wish list right? I want to see: -OLED 3.5" Screen and bigger keyboard! -Metal Casing. -Video Capture. -4G. -MicroSD. -150 Micron Filter over the Speaker! (To keep out metal filings). -NO Mobile Web!!! -Better CPU and USE the GPU! What I'd like to see: -Trackball. -Nightvision. -Fuel Cell. -And a TRUE Virtual Keyboard. One of those Laser keyboards that project onto the table in front of you. The ones seen on Beyond Tomorrow. Which are actually out now. This would truly separate it from other Smart Phones. #1. VOICE DIAL - VOICE DIAL - VOICE DIAL!!! w/ advanced features - no voice training, control media player, flight mode, spoken # and name dialing, etc., etc. 2. Faster processor (example: similar to 1Ghz Snapdragon or faster), faster graphics and more internal memory 3. Expandable Memory/Storage - support for 64GB+(mini/micro SD) 4. HD Video Recording w/ Stereo Sound and Output (also need auto focus, flash, etc.) 5. OLED/AMOLED High Res Screen w/ less glare 6. Keep the physical keyboard and maybe even go landscape 7. GPS with better signal lock/caching for when off network, etc. 8. Last; but not least - Give it a REAL Battery for cyrin' out loud! Oh, and We Want it no later than April 1st, 2010! :P Seriously, though, bring on some REAL and Game Changing updates Palm. :-) A little more detail regarding my first post (and these are just my opinion/wish-list): Palm could work on a new flagship device. I believe the form factor of the Pre is perfect. This time get rid of the curvature of the slide. It does not work. An AMOLED display is a must, especially due to the fact that it will benefit battery life. Make the device bigger, start off with a screen that has 480P resolution with a 16:9 ratio, maybe 3.3 or 3.4 inches; this in turn will give us more width for the qwerty keyboard (and a larger battery). The processor is just fine, we're not taking full advantage of it, hopefully with the new hire from AMD/ATI, we'll make good use of the GPU. More memory/expandable memory goes without saying. USB 3.0 would be impressive if possible. More physical buttons (e.g. camera), a better charging port door/cover, and a higher resolution camera with vid. Some in previous posts have mentioned magnetometer and RFID chips, those couldn't hurt. Finally, WebOS; I'm sure updates will come along, but I'm waiting for most of the tweaks available via WebOS Quick Install to make it to an official update. Also, more bluetooth profiles, better PIM functionality (it's suppose to be a Palm), voice dial/commands (with a physical button), better camera software, and desktop synchro included with the package. Seriously, how about more API's? Optimization, Optimization, Optimization. I'm willing to pay $250 post rebate. Just my three cents. How can we make a make your own theme application? Palm should be an innovator and not a copycat. I would prefer an almost endless data capacity with the option of media storage. The size of the palm pre is nice. It feels nice in my hands and to carry which is one of the things I look for in a phone. Video would be nice, is it possible for 3D?. I also would like the option to backup my own data. I would like to see a tablet the same size the electronic readers are with the same capacity to read ebooks and sync with my phone and I could play games, write letters and interact with apps, download ebooks and such. . I would also like to see my phone able to scan so I can scan prices before I take them to the counter. I like the keyboard. What about a built in webcam. video phone. I think this is a simple one. Make a device that is made for surfing the web. With flash support and everything necessary to surf the web, the phone is the new internet. The pre is good for surfing the web, but it could be great. Portrait design and keyboard is a must, but a little wider would be good. Hey, try putting a trackball under the keyboard. -Glass, OLED and 3.5" screen -Definitely better casing -At least 16GB on-board storage WITH micro sd slot -Better battery -Video recording -Picture and video editing software -More camera settings (ie...white balance, stronger flash, auto focus (focus points even..hehe), ISO settings up to 800 at least) - A few years ago, any old camera would've sufficed, but I take enough pictures now to know that I want something more. Once the phone cams reach 10MP with ISO up to 1600 and auto focus, I might just dump my DSLR. Defintely full flash support, camcorder capability, optional camera options like zoom, stabilization, auto focus. I would like the ability to play high graphics games, free sync software simliar to the Palm Treo. Email-to-text option and vice versa. Visual voicemail. More memory 8 gb is not enough. I prefer this as updates to the current Palm Pre not putting these capabilites into a new Pre (Pre 2). Why?? Advertiser's get consumers to buy a phone- its like they purposely leave out capabilites instead of giving you the best quality phones then six months after the cell phone company get you to sign a new two year contract a so- called UPDATED or II version is released-its unfair!! Just give us updates not version number 2!!! please ignore this comment. true comment below Well, let me first say what I don't want to see Palm to do : To lose its IDENTITY. So whatever Palm should produce should be identifiable as a Palm device. So it should be identifiable in it's form, design, ease of use etc., etc. So I DON'T want Palm to produce another BIG GENERIC LOOKING GLASS SLAB form factor (like Moto dRoid, or upcoming Sony's Xperia X3, or even anything like Moto Cliq, or HTC Hero, or whatever). Even if Palm decides to make one for those who want to use such MACHINES because of their testosterone generated masculine urge to show off (even though I wonder whether all of them have the requisite NO, the nitric-oxide ;-)), Palm should make sure that no one has to hold that big hunka-clunka glass slab has to be hold to one's ear, and Palm should not call such device a phone. Make it such than one can use it as a phone only with a ear-plug, or head-set. And then give them whatever they want, even perhaps VOIP feature. Now what I want. Make a Pre2 just like a Pre-form-factor, with improved everything (whatever necessary hardware/software improvement is required). May be Palm can make it very sturdy with rugged plastic and rubberised materials, or can use some brushed metals. Ideally I want Palm to go back to Treo line, like Treo 650 form factor WITH A SIMILAR STUB LIKE ANTENNA ! Do away with the buttons and D-pad and make that a gesture area. There is enough space to increase the screen size. Make the keyboard ideal. Whichever Treo had/has the best keypads, use it. Another version can be made using all virtual onscreen keyboard. Then even with a Treo-650 form factor one would have a very big screen. For the rest of the phone give what people want. Don't ever make the Pixi mistake, i.e. no Wifi. And just remember "DEVICES THAT ARE BIGGER THAN THE PALM OF A HAND IS NOT A PALM PHONE". :-) this is my idea. palm pixi form factor, no keyboard, BIG screen, thicker, for screen and updated components. ALSO they NEED to utilize the GPU in the current pre! My BIGGEST complaint about the pre, is in the lack of app availabilty. I know, its a new phone, still beta appstore, big developers arent sure if they want to invest in it yet, but honestly? when the SDK has so few API's and doesnt really allow developers deep access into the phone, no killer apps are going to come our way! get to it palm. You have to fix what you have before you release a new product, or consumers may be weary. (see WINDOWS VISTA) a device can be too small and thin (see latest ipod shuffle) The benefit of keeping the casing look of the pixi, is that this looks identifiable, it doesnt look like any candybar touchscreen ive seen, especially in the rounded top and bottom (this is the palm pixi, with photoshopped screen, no special info here :/) I argee with u just had a KB. Here is my rendering..-... give me snapdragon...16gigs and expandable heptic feedback..come on where are my instinct fans at...visual voicemail...native not app catalog....build onto the current os...unleash the power the pre already has...i can do without the keyboard as long as you give me a nice size screen 3.7 or higher...video recording...and full on accelerometer I mean build in through every nookand cranny so no matter whats upon my phone whether it be the home screen or a app I turn my phone and the screen turns with it....I hate the iphone but love the app store...and its apps I like what apples doing with the mobile gaming and what not...palm will get there with the time that apples had to develop there but palm dosnt have the time to so they need to do it like now...build build build...virtual keyboard landscape or vertical must be buetiful i mean responsive screen all that lol...I want more but can't think of it right now.... There is only one thing important to the next WebOS device T9 !!! First and foremost - I work for Sprint. Not only do I hear pros/cons of this phone everyday from an average of 170-200 people a month, but I see a lot of things that push customers AWAY from the phone and towards phones like blackberry or Hero. So here's what would resolve that: 1. Customers ask for a larger screen all the time. They want something more form-factor style of the iPhone but with the features of WebOS. People walk in with GIANT iPhone screens with gorgeous full-screen apps.. its hard to compete with. If we had a device than ran WebOS on an iPhone or TouchHD sized screen, life would be a dream.. BUT - let's make it a wider, flatter version of what exists now with the gorgeous rounded corners and a landscape slideout qwerty. As thin as possible, but without a glass screen. 2. A larger keyboard is a must. Deterrant #2! (and a major one at that) is people are afraid of the small keyboard. Theyre turned off by the tiny keys and inability to see it. This limits the customer base to those with small fingers, those with patience, and those with good vision or glasses. For everything the Pre does to attract customers who fear the smartphone, it takes away when the keyboard is shown. 3. APPS - There arent enough, or interesting enough apps. If WebKit is the base framework for both iPhone and Pre, iPhone apps should run on the device. This would open a WORLD of help for those who come in asking for apps only the iPhone can handle. ME: "This has apps.. look theres 250+ of them.. .. theres a calculator..." THEM : *stares blankly* ME : "...a Fandango app...an NFL app... oh look! Heres air hockey..." THEM : "But the iPhone has the Sirius Radio App - does the Pre?" ME: "Not....yet?" THEM : "My son said to get an iPhone." *door slam* 4. Landscape EVERYTHING. Turn the phone sideways, everything turns with it. 5. Video recording, editing, and the ability to play .mpg files and other formats streamed directly from web or email. 6. FLASH support in browser. 7. Visual voicemail. 8. The ability to charge on any MicroUSB charger, not just Palm configured. The Pre is limited on what chargers it accepts in Micro USB format. Some can be plugged in for up to 2 hours before the device recognizes it's being fed power and routes it to the battery. Those are just a few... I own a Pre, so please be kind. I love my phone - every WebOS QuickInstall inch of it! Oh.. and before I forget - BETTER COMMERCIALS! Ones that show a side by side comparison of the Pre with iPhone on basic features. Similar to INSTINCT vs. IPHONE back in the SPH-M800 days! the question is, whether this would be smart or not, as many of the basic features needs to be improved. *Must I say 4G?!?!?!?! *AMOLED 480p *5 megapixel camera *16GB *On-screen keyboard along with the physical one. *Palm messaging client like Blackberry Messenger. *More efficient battery with much longer life. *A landscape keyboard would be nice, but the thing is that would make the Pre look like every other phone. Palm needs to original, not like every other want to be iPhone phone. *Very solid/sturdy/less incline to finger prints or scratches. *Visual Voice mail *Micro SD slot would be nice. *Faster Processor *Video Calling *I like one guys idea of a Solar panel somewhere, not very noticeable like the proximity and motion sensors. *Slightly bigger screen. *PLEASE Keep the river stone form factor. Specs the next device should have: 1GHz or higher CPU 512mb or more of RAM Nvidia's Tegra 650 processor 800x480 screen horizontal slideout keyboard with same layout as the HTC Touch Pro (which has a dedicated number row, as well as a "ctrl" button - enabling ctrl+c, ctrl+v, ctrl+x, ctrl+z, ctrl+s, etc.) we should no have to hold down a function key every time we want to type in a number - dedicated number rows and the ctrl button are a must! These features should be standard, should have been for years! How about the Treo650 keyboard? Palm keyboards keep getting worse and worse, from the gratuitous key placement changes in the 680 to the soggy keyboard in the cheap Centro, which apparently is also in the Pre. How about getting back the functionality and ease of use from PalmOS in the Calendar and Memos applications? How about getting back the search functionality from PalmOS that allowed us to search Calendar, Contacts, and Memos? How about we just get back to 10 year old PalmOS functionality levels before even trying to be anything better??? How about something like a thinner version of the HTC Touch Pro II with an AMOLED screen. Also, I'd like the ability to swipe card view off to the side of the screen. Sometimes I want the clean look of no running apps, but I would still like to have those apps open, just not plastered on the screen. I agree with Keith about the Pixi 2's need for upgrades - especially regarding the Micro SD slot and WiFi. Really, it's WiFi more than anything for me. But I'd rather have a Pre 2 with the same/similar form factor of a vertical slider, but with a Treo 800w keyboard, no lip around the keyboard to hinder button pressing, no unstable wiggles in the slider mechanism [which is why I am even considering a Pixi], and no issues with screen cracks. That would be a phone I would easily pay $250 for. One last suggestion would be to not hinder your next gen phone with exclusivity agreements; what Web OS lacks more than anything is third party applications, so the faster Palm gets a larger user base, the better it'll do in that area. No amount of money that Sprint or anyone else can offer for exclusivity is worth being left behind Android in terms of market share, and that window is closing quickly. I'd love to buy a new Palm device with the following improvements to the Pre: - better keyboard (Treo 800w is by far best keyboard ever IMHO) - better battery life (why not place a couple of small solar receptors on the front top corners and/or the back similar to what's been on my Texas Instruments calculator since, oh, circa 1986??) - microSD card - increase the size of everything (device, screen, keyboard, buttons) by 15% - ditch the glossy black finger printophile for matte finish my personal opinion is this is my first slider phone and I hate the slider form. It does not compare to a full touchscreen, or blackberry/pixi candybar style either or even a flip fone in my suggestion. I love the webOS though and i wish the physical phone was as good as the system itself. I'll take palm over 'droid or iphone anyday but i want to see the physical phone style of like a touchpro 2 or jus do a normal full touch screen like iphone or htc hero. Just my 2 cents Hawdware 1. 3.7 inch AMOLED screen, beautiful and power saving. 2. Vertical sliding QWERTY keyboard, no gummy keys compressed hard key with a definitive CLICK when you press them. 3. More memory options, 32gb Standard w/ SDHC slot. 4. FM Tuner/transmitter. 5. Video out w/ 3.5mm jack. 6. Glass screen, preferably made by Stantum(resistive pressure sensitive multi-touch) with oleophobic coating. 7. Retain rounded design but not the curved slider 8. Magnesium Alloy body with coating like the touchstone cover. 9. 3g w/ one of the schnazzy new quad/5 band 3G radios to make it a true world phone. 10. One of the schnazzy new mobile Wireless-N chips, again newer function less power. 11. Retain OMAP3 and PowerVR, runs fine once they get that graphics accelerator running. Software: More constant updates, in the time the Pre has been out we've seen Android go from 1.5 to 1.6 to 2.0 now which have all been decent upgrades with 2.0 being intense. Add easier ways to do things without having to use gestures, swipe to end programs is exciting the first few times, but I'd love to just tap a X. (unless this has changed, I haven't had my Pre for the last few months, damn friends keep using my stuff :( ) I think WebOS with a Treo form factor would be awesome. I don't want to have to use gestures for everything. The Treo was a huge success for a long time. The form was fast and at your fingertips. The fact that so many people have blackberries is proof that the form factor of a fast, tactile, and spacious keyboard with quick access buttons is still really effective and popular. The treo build was solid and felt great in the hand. I could pound out messages so fast. Please go back to better keys on the keyboard. I DO NOT want a touchscreen keyboard. I don't want a horizontal slider. The pixi form factor has some great elements: vertical, physical keyboard, but it's still entirely gesture based. I'm realizing the longer I have my pre the more I want the ease and speed of my treo--not OS speed but physical action speed. I don't want to slide anything. Perhaps the pixi form factor would be great, but the specs are keeping me from making that switch. The pixi appears to possibly be too thin--yes it is possible--for it to feel stable in my hand as I'm pounding out e-mails. The pre is not a one hand device, and I miss that terribly. I think it should be one handed based for keys and keyboard and do whatever you need to do with the screen and internal specs. I defer to greater experts on that, but it seems to me that 8 GB anymore is not enough for the direction people are heading with smartphone usage--especially with more people relying on them for their music library, video capturing, and photos. People don't want to carry multiple electronics anymore. they want their phone to do all that seperate devices used to do. Whether unreasonable or not, that is where the market has driven expectations. All of that aside, given the need to build a family of products, I think Rene might be right with the need to do a really great and impressive slab device. The software is awesome and gorgeous, and I think it would look stunning on a slab and appeal to those iphoners who don't want AT&T, but developers need to be able to build for WebOS in such a way that quantity and quality appear impressive on the OS and devices. That's not where I want things to go for my personal use. Beef up a PRE. Keep with the business usage form factors and one handed considerations. Pull from that strong business building background and core functionality while building devices that really show off the beautiful OS and capabilities. Next devices out really will tell more of the story in the minds of those watching PALM. Building right device form factors in only part of the story. Keeping the OS updates and feature rich to satisfy a very demanding consumer and saturated marketplace is probably the greater challenge. Two screens. For example: two 1024x768 screens would have tenfold pixel count compared to the iPhone. In addition to Pixi, Pre 2 is in the works. My guess is an incremental upgrade over the existing Pre available during 1Q or 2Q 2010. It would include a faster processor (perhaps dual core), more memory (base of 16 or 32GB), better radio (4G - either WiMAX or LTE), upgraded bluetooth (3.0) and Wi-Fi (802.11n) etc. I would be fine with that - throw in expandable storage (microSD - maybe even microSDXC) and you would have a worthy upgrade. I wish they would upgrade the volume, ringer switch and on/off buttons (which look and feel extremely cheap and detract from an otherwise excellent design). A keyboard with keys like previous Treos (prior to Treo Pro) would also increase the design quality, but also the expense. The bubble keys are ok but the previous keyboards were better by far. I expect a few different other devices/form factors are possible: 1. Phone without a keyboard - yes, it would be an iPhone clone but with WebOS instead. Palm would get flack for releasing it but some people really don't care about a physical keyboard. RIM is known for keyboards and yet they have the Storm. This could position Palm to also have a... 2. Music Player. WebOS could easily be used as the base for a music player - this would also flesh out Palm/WebOS's multimedia apps. Think Zune HD/iPod Touch form factor - with lots of storage. Need extra storage for your Pre/Pixi? This could complement your existing phone and/or be the additional storage you need (plus it might auto register/sync with the Pre/Pixi). This could also double as a... 3. Game Machine. IPod Touch is selling lots of units - mostly for teenagers to play games. With Palm hiring graphics developers, a device next year in this space is possible. It could be combined with the music player (all touch interface) or be customized to have game specific controls (say, 5 way nav or trackball to aid gaming - think Zodiac reborn). 4. Foleo (with a new name). WebOS would easily work on a netbook and Foleo, though ridiculed, was slightly ahead of its time. Key interface design question - how do you scale up WebOS apps to such a large screen, though...? 5. MID - think Compal Tabasco style form factor (rumored last year). This could overlap with item #2 or #3 above. 6. eReader - the Barnes and Noble Nook has Android running on an eReader - why not WebOS? Palm has more clout to attack this space than some of the startups but would face competition from Sony and Apple (assuming the long rumored Tablet appears). Ironically, Palm sold their eReader software to Barnes & Noble a few years ago when Palm was strapped for cash - Palm was an innovator in the ebook space long before there was a Kindle. I think the all touch screen phone is the most likely as the third phone in Palm's lineup with another device as listed above possible - it's going to depend on Palm's cash position and their desire to gamble. Depending on Android's momentum in 2010, you could possibly see WebOS gain the ability to run Android apps (Android would run in a card just like Flash apps will soon) or you could see Palm become an Android licensee. In the Android licensee scenario, Palm would port Mojo to Android and give Android a WebOS style UI/gesture interface. Either option could keep Palm in the game if WebOS mindshare appears to be fading among developers or users - Palm could gain compatibility while still having a good deal of differentiation and some degree of control of their own platform. Any way you slice it, it's pretty exciting. It all depends on whether Palm can continue to execute and if/how much they can increase their sales. Quite simply, more revenue means more possibility to invest in other devices. Pre 2 (1 being the most wanted) 1. Stronger, more rugged build! (I'm afraid of everything I do with this phone). 2. Memory card expansion 3. Thinner 4. Speed 5. Sprint HTC Hero's scroll wheel!! (why have a limited functioning button on the Pre) 5. Snapdragon or better 6. Use more of the Pre screen real estate. 7. Touchstone car dock 8. Battery life increase 9. Less scratch-able screen! 10. Compass The thing that blew me away when I first learnt about the Palm Pre, was the web oriented aspect of it and multi-tasking. That needs to be taken to the next level. How about web based storage on the phone? A 1 terrabyte storage on a phone wouldn't be shocking then. A smart implementation could make accessing the web based storage usable. Can I say microSD sucks... Ask anyone that has a T-Mo Sidekick what they think of web-based storage. The Pre/WebOS uses some form of web based storage for its backup. I understand how the perception could kill this idea. Rene Ritchie - Although I understand your point of view I have to disagree with it. Physical Keyboards are still wanted. When you go the Route of NO keyboard ever you can be leaving out MANY people. What about disabled people with tactile issue that need the feel of a real keyboard. My fiancee has MS and has issues that require her to have a real keyboard. She has tried on screen keyboard as a option but didn't suit her needs. Allow me to introduce you to the next brilliant (hypothetical) creation from Palm: the Palm Proteus. Proteus is a horizontal slider phone with a rugged physical slide-out keyboard. Indentations on the side of the device and a smooth-sliding mechanism make it a snap to open and close. Sporting a large & beautiful 3.5" AMOLED screen with 640x480 resolution, powered by the latest NVIDIA Tegra processor, and offering 32GB of internal storage as well as MicroSD up to 32GB for as much as 64GB total storage capacity. Although larger than the Pre, Proteus offers significantly longer battery life, and of course packs WiFi and FULL Bluetooth support. Proteus comes with a fingerprint-resistant dull-shine finish and is available in cherry red, midnight blue, lime green, and black. [In other words, I don't mind it being a brick as long as it has a horizontal slider keyboard, bigger screen, more memory & storage, better processor. By the way -- touchscreen keyboards suck.] AMEN...give us practicality over looks, who cares if it needs to be a little bit fatter to fit in a microsd slot, JUST do it...even though motorola didnt need all that space for the droid..PALM needs to learn about space compression After some more thinking what I really want is a 2nd SDK for Linux level coding. I luv the web tech app but I really think they should support it. give me something like the HTC HD2 but with a slide out keyboard ofcourse...Rene is drunk of apple juice...there is no substitute for a REAL keyboard, sorry the technology is not there yet just like speech recognition is still not good enough... i do not like fighting with a virtual keyboard. its all about typing fast, accurate and not having read what you just typed because your virtual keyboard sucks and you dont trust it. Rene, i am also young, 23 and not an old fart..people that prefer virtual keyboard to a real one dont like typing fast and accurate, end of story. i would also like a more responsive screen (like the iphone or better)...better battery (pre battery sucks), removable media ....more memory and faster processor (tired of getting the "too many cards open" message on the pre when i only have one open or none)....dont put a removable battery if its impossible to remove, same goes for the micro usb latch. high quality build, already on my fourth or fifth pre...oreo problem, turns off byitself when sliding open. I wonder how many professionals are waiting for the next Palm device that can replace their Treo 755p (or 680 for those on GSM)? The next Palm device should satisfy the Treo owners who want to upgrade. - a keyboard as good as on the 680/755 - a memory card slot so we can continue to carry our reference material, songs, pics and video clips AND allow full backup when no other connectivity exists. - the search functionality that PalmOS had, i.e it searched the data of ALL apps, Palm's AND third parties. - be able to use the device without having to have a data contract, some of us have no need for social networking sites, and treat our smart phone as a PDA first and a phone second. And we want to control when we update the firmware. - it must have WiFi for web access. I understand Palm going for a different customer group with the Pre BUT it seems foolish to not have an upgrade path for their exiting Treo customers. Rene - it's funny you mention that the kids aren't dependent on the physical keyboard because I've talked to more than a handful of parents whose kids denounce the iPhone for it's lack of physical keyboard. Reason? Because the text with their phone hidden from site while they sit in class. Picture one of those hoodies with the uni-pocket up front. With a virtual keyboard their hopes and dreams of texting without the teacher noticing are flushed right down the toilet. I'm not saying my sampling is scientific, but in my opinion it stands to reason. I think the physical keyboard is here to stay and Palm's implementation in the Pre is brilliant. The build quality of the pre sucks, Palm just go back to the traditional candy bar form factor that the treos use to have with a larger screen and give me back my contact groups and a great keyboard like the 755p!!! Other than that i love web os I just need it to be move faster. I love palm i just wish they would listen to the consumer and they would dominate!!! It's simple CANDY BAR design and a great keyboard not that PIXI sh*&!!! Palm needs to make a Pre II with a lager screen. They need to lose the curved vertical slider and make a large horizontal slide out keyboard. They need an actual keyboard. I don't know what all of these people are talking about with loosing the actual keboard but they are crazy. If the pre didn't have an actual keyboard i would never of got it. Also they need to make the button on the bottom to also be a form of navigation like the blackberry with the spinning ball. Video camera is huge!! Pre needs a video camera. you really don't realize home much you use it until you don't have one. Lose the glossy look. the touchstone back is awesome if the whole phone was that material it would be great and i wouldn't drop it as often. Here's how I would improve upon the current Pre (most of which is physical): - At least 30% larger screen real estate (the device could be 30% larger in width and height without giving up any depth) - Remove the on/off button and just use the single button on the front bottom - Remove the charger/usb input spot from the side and put in under the mic like the iPhone - Change the keyboard buttons from rubbery surface to plastic and clicky like the BBerry curve (increased room for this from the 30% growth in hardware size) - Video support (obvi) Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing a soft keyboard similar to the iPhone (increased screen real estate makes this more possible)

Round Table: The Palm C40 144 >? 144 Comments C40 is obviously a red-herring to keep everyone's focus away from other things while Palm finishes up the C4000. :) the C40 is clamshell I bet. The C is clamshell to rival the blackberry pearl flip Palm should keep the variety of devices.. i.e -the candy bar pixi -the slide out pre and the C40 should be a slab.. no keyboard.. all phones are eventually going to go to virtual keyboards.. dont get me wrong, i love my pre slide out.. but the virutal keyboard on the iphone is pretty nice and accurate.. thats the key to a virtual keyboard, they need to make the auto correct really good and functional where it fixes common mistakes and what not which come from typing on virtual keyboard.. then it will be great.. the slab would also give it a bigger screen (which is very nice) and more room to fit nice hardware and they wouldnt have to worry about making it bulky by having a keyboard.. as long as it has the gesture bar and webos.. ill be happy.. :) p.s. i am not a fan of the side slide out keyboards, they look bulky and in my opinion ugly. I like Derek's vision most. I want a taller, wider, slimmer Pre with a bigger keyboard and ridiculously powerful specs. And a webOS 2.0 that will blow everyone else out of the water (again). Absolutely! It would be a dream if Palm were to go in the direction Craig, or Derek propose. (as long Palm gives me the bigger screen, I wont complain too much about landscape or portrait keyboards). I personally need a portrait keyboard. For me, flipping the device (and aspect ratio) sideways to type has always been an awful user experience. I just want to overdo the hardware so that webos 1.0 can flow smoothly. No latency, better memory management. Let WebOS get fully established before we start futzing with the O/S. A better phone app is badly needed. I would like to see a device slightly larger (screen size) than the current Pre, but with a side slider. Oh yeah - and 4G speed. I dont know why every one wants a larger screen, it wont fit in the pocket and the apps will not work properly (all 1500 of them, only the bright house and dijit ones will work) Bright House & Digit! Those are the best apps out there. lol dimwit No, just someone with a sense of humor. Give it a try! Larger screen and larger resolution are NOT the same thing. Look at the iPhone and the Pre. Same resolution, but the iPhone has a bigger screen. The Pre looks clearer tho, because everything is a bit smaller and much less stretched to fit the size. The screen can still be enlarged though. webOS apps are designed to work at any resolution. So, make it huge Palm. Make it huge. Larger Screen does NOT mean larger resolution. i.e. The iPhone has a larger screen than the Pre and they are both 480x320. yes I'm going to throw this out there: I think the C40 will be Sprint's flagship phone to launch the 4G network. From what I've been reading on various forums and sites this will be the flagship 4G phone...... that would be epic... ". Finally, CEO Dan Hesse himself is cited as saying Sprint will be bringing out "dozens of devices" with embedded WiMAX this year," Precisely what I referenced earlier and what I sent in to P|C. I totally agree! I think by the time the next Palm phone comes out, and if they won't do an expandable card slot, they should skip a few steps and go straight to 64gb capacity. iPhone is already at 32gb and perhaps by the end of the summer will surpass that. We need to stop playing catchup and surpass what's already out there, and I think memory and storage is a super-important aspect of that. throw it back I am very much against the side slider keyboard. From the 755P to the Centro to the Pre, the vertical orientation of the phone has partly been the draw for me. I can use the phone with one hand as long as the vertical orientation is consistent throughout all functionality, add a side slider keyboard and that's all over. Would be very bad in my opinion. I agree. I want a slightly taller and thicker Pixi with full 480x320 screen and Pre Plus or better hardware. Slightly thicker to allow for a 1600 mAh+ battery. I agree, I like being able to hold the device and type with one hand. I agree. I think that because webos is so portrait focused, it would be a really huge hassle for palm to release a landscape keyboard. I do think they should have a virtual keyboard that works in landscape (the web is better in landscape) I totally agree with you on that one jdod. The vertical keyboard is what sealed the deal for me as it is exceptional for one handed use. Many may disagree with us but opinions are opinions! If they go with a landscape keyboard OR virtual keyboard (only), it will be a sad sad day... I agree with you on the slider.It is alot more easier to type/text with the pres current keyboard.why is it that when something works good they always want to change?! I agree the buttons could be a lil,and I mean a lil bigger.But they still feel comfortable to me just takes getting use to.We should all keep the pressure on palm as pre owners to not make dramatics changes. let the pre live on!!! What is it with you guys and a virtual keyboard. I hope Palm never gives up the hardware keyboard. So, never having worked for a technology device company like Palm, obviously they design and produce devices that never see the light of day on a sales floor. Could the C40 just be a placeholder for the "Pre 2" and there are, say, 5 competing models that they are trying to decide between? I also would say we are a minimum of 6 months from seeing the device hit the street. Look how long it took for the Pre from announcement to launch -- and Palm hasn't even announced this yet... But, it certainly generates excitement and speculation, and for a company in Palm's arena that is good news! A larger Pre style slider, with more RAM, more memory, faster processor and 3G/4G WiMax capabilities. ...RAM is memory DaHui623. I'm thinking you mean Storage (ie. HDD). I think you mean storage (i.e. NAND chip in most phones, HDD in most computers) C40 is the Sprint designation for the Pomegranate Phone :) LOL, I've never seen that before!! Those crazy Canadians!! WOW - that was the most awesome video ever posted here. I had a grin from ear to ear as I watched it and it got progressively crazier. Thanks! Why make coffee on your pomegranate when your Pre can make beer?... Dude, that was one crazy ass phone,I was like wtf the whole time. but i feel like its not real,i would get that in a heart beat if it was real due to it is waaaaayyyyy diferent...take that iphone. It is not real it is an attempt to promote nova scotia I think palm should make the screen bigger, 3.5ish. 4G is not high on my wish list since so few places have coverage and I'm really not sure this will be a particularly quick build out. I think palm should keep the vertical orientation for the keyboard. Horizontal orientations feel like something a teenager would use. They also mean longer typing strokes, that's not desirable. I would like to see a virtual keyboard added as it can be annoying sliding out the keyboard for every little text input, especially in landscape mode. I doubt that palm will be the 4g phone, there are already pictures and rumors of the Supersonic, but will find out next month i guess. If you read the Engadget article I sent in to PC, you will see that Sprint plans on putting a 4G device out in 1H2010 (could be Pre2 on/near 6/6/2010??), as well as at least a dozen more by the holidays this year (i.e. by December). Now tell me Palm would seriously release a 3G only device on a carrier going full speed onto 4G. Palm Treo Pro Codenamed Palm C40; 4G LTE Radio 4" 480 x 854 AMOLED Capacitive Touchscreen Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5GHZ Snapdragon nvidia Tegra 2 Chipset 64GB Ultra Fast Flash Memory 1GB internal Ram/Rom Micro USB 3.0 Full Portrait QWERTY 1080p HDMI out Dual HD Dollby MicroSpeakers Pico Projector inbuilt 12 MPX autofocus schenider with dual xenon flash 1080p native video recording ftw Palm webOS 2.0 ....yeah, right. And it burns DVDs too right? ;-) Ahhh glad you reminded me, of course :-) DVDs?!?!? This thing's gonna burn scratch-resistant BluRays, holmes! One Can Only Dream!! And the battery life... Twenty Minutes! Battery? Are you kidding? This has no battery!! (you have to have it continuously plugged into a wall outlet) My bad.Sorry that was the first thing that came into head.Very poor taste.I should have said,I am an american idiot.And I did mean High. Forgot to mention the 4000 mAh Battery (In Prototype testing currently in some russian bunker) with a full solar panel back and 87% Solar conversion efficiency (a world first!) Whilst i'm on the subject, a few other tidbits; Full Carbon Fibre Body Ultra Hard Scratch Resistant Glass Screen Noise cancelling mic/earpiece with HD CrystalTalk Clarity DVB HD inbuilt TV Tuner Well, a guy can dream, right?! No natural wood inlays? No self cleaning display with "hand-goo eradication" system? I'm not buying nuttin' until they bring back the IR port. high hitler First, it's hail, not high (heil in German) Second, and more importantly, that was an insensitive thing to say. Not LTE, WiMax. Sprint will be using WiMax. You forgot the built-in touchstone. So you want a webos touchscreen laptop? I want 1.4 !!!!!!!!! Why can't we go 1 post without bringing up 1.4?? It will come when it comes. Still plenty of days left in February. Chill! =) 1.5! I complete disagree with the notion that if it doesn't have 4G it'll be dead in the water. I think Palm can go another year with embedding an expensive power hungry 4G/WiMax radio in its devices. On top of that you would still need the 3G/EVDO, WiFi, Bluetooth, and GPS radios. Silly discussion. it's supposed to be fun. lighten up. I hope it looks the Droid I hope it don't Will palm even have a 2.0 this year? Say June? Since some people on Sprint get a 12 month upgrade. I'm just wondering if palm is gonna introduce it at GDC? Where other would you showcase a phone with a lot of capabilities especially gaming capabilities than GDC? I hope to see/hear about the C40 there. Edit: why else would they go there, we all know that games are being developed for webOS devices, we already know about the PDK's existance, some (gameloft) seem to have masterd it giving us great games although probably ports from iphone still great games. This all just makes me believe there is something else there gonna show and that is whatever the C40 is. That's just my thought. Probably wrong but what I'd like to see :D lol (sarcastic) I now know exactly what the Palm C40 is. It is a game console that will be able to play all kinds of games from the Palm App Catalog. The resolution will be 1920x1080p (full HD) and it will be 15" big. Of course, none of the games from the app catalog can be supported now, but wait until people start bringing games over from Playstation 3 and XBOX 360. Then we will all be having fun. The device will operate on Sprint/Clearwire's 4G network and all graphic processing will be done client side. The data will be transferred via JSON from console to console for live data work and it will be able to read ebooks too. Best of all, all of the apps will be available for the device from the regular Palm App Catalog. (sarcastic post over) Now the device I sarcastically built above is as stupid as the Apple iPad. I responded to your comment because you mentioned GDC and this just fits here. Palm MIGHT announce a Palm Pre 2 at the GDC, and the reason for them being there would be to showcase two things: 1) The FULL PDK (since just a few have it 2) MAYBE showing off a new Pre device (i.e. Pre2) for Sprint and AT&T (one CDMA/WiMax and one GSM/LTE, even though AT&T doesn't have LTE yet) demonstrating the amazing gaming capabilities on a fast processor with high memory (768MB - 1024MB even if it is excessive). 4g,more memorey,larger screen,better battery life,upgraded software,no buttons on the face of the phone like the pre plus,auto focus camera,snap dragon processor,thinner device,projector,with a google nexus design. 4g,more memorey,larger screen,better battery life,upgraded software,no buttons on the face of the phone like the pre plus,auto focus camera,snap dragon processor,thinner device,projector,with a google nexus design. I would like to see something like the Helio Ocean, it had a dual sliding keyboard, a landscape QWERTY keyboard which was VERY fast and nice to type with, and it had a vertical sliding keyboard that was the phone dialer and could also be used for T9 text input. The Ocean was one of my favorite phones. Anyway, I would like this new Palm phone to kind of keep a similar sleek shape, but maybe a tad longer and wider, but not really a lot fatter so it could have a bigger screen with dual sliding keyboards, sport a WEBOS 2.0 that would take advantage of a lot more RAM making the device really fast and snappy at opening apps, maybe have like a 4.0MP camera with zoom and flash. That would be the perfect device for me! the ocean had a huge flaw tho. The dual sliding keyboard tended to sever the wires that went to the screen causung it to fail. Please palm never build a dual slider. it's hard for me to decide what I want in the next device because most of the issues I have with this one can be fixed through software. That said, I think the Pre2 should have a 3g/4g radio, a larger screen, a digital compass (for alternate reality apps), more memory, larger HDD, microSD, better camera, improved processor, better portrait keyboard. here are some software issues i'd like to see fixed in time for the new device: video recording/editing (I know it's almost here), official virtual keyboard, official landscape email/text apps, more visually appealing transitions, better garbage management (official task manager), voice dialing, voice memos, speed-dial-like app shortcuts, allow more customization, official 'tabs on launcher pages', better ringtone implementation, audio editing, autocorrection, and on palms server end: more accounts to sync w/ synergy, better contact recovery (re-link my accounts!), allow me to micro-manage contacts/accounts from the web I agree with some of those. It will need a larger screen, definitely. Especially for a virtual keyboard, but only by .5-.8" (i.e. 3.6-3.9" screen) More memory (will definitely come up to 512MB, but more would be nice) Larger (32GB) NAND chip (what you call HDD, but it isn't a hard disk drive) Improved processor (TI OMAP4 1GHz, Snapdragon 1GHz, other with >1.5GHz) Digital compass (reasoned below) 4G (LTE/WiMax radio, depending on carrier) Software: Video (coming soon, maybe today??) Virtual Keyboard (official, through App Catalog, free) Make most apps landscape (email, text, Google Maps, Sprint Nav, etc.) Make SDK API (service call) for digital compass direction to rotate object (i.e. Google Maps, Sprint Nav, Trapster, etc.) Better garbage collection Task manager (official, with all of the features of JSTop) OpenGL transitions WebGL implementation CSS transitions Better SDK Lower level access (if necessary, require user to grant access) within SDK 'for alternate reality apps' -- lol, I think you meant augmented reality. lmao that's exactly what I meant. But now that I said it, wouldn't alternet reality apps be a game changer haha yes! I would love to play on the alternets! ;-) Alot of people are putting out alot of good ideas. I definitely agree with the compass tho most haven't mentioned it. +1 on 4G. Just cause its not widely available doesn't mean we should disregard it. Its available in 32 cities now and counting. (Hoping mine is next...) Also a recent announcement of 28nm process for mobile phones chips coming down the pipeline has also got me excited with claims of 100% battery life improvements. What would be really funny is, with all this speculation, guesswork, and dreaming going on, if it turns out to be just an accessory like a charger or case. :P mobile touchstone charger! XD I was thinking Palm branded bluetooth headset. ...so much time wasted with this speculation. 4G LTE/WIMAX GSM/CDMA 1.5GHZ 32GB 5 MPXLS CAMERA LARGE SCREEN BETTER CASING MATERIALS IF IT IS A WEBOS TABLET THEN 4G GSM OPTION 1GB RAM DUAL CORE PROCESSOR 1.8GHZ/2 GHZ 80GB/120GB HDD WEBCAM VIRTUAL KEYBOARD Well, who knows????? you will not see a compass in a palm device for quite some time... Why you ask? The Touchstone. It used magnets and that would throw a compass all kinds of off if there were magnets in the phones back cover. unless they re-design the touchstone to not use magnets somehow, no compass. And I doubt they are dropping the touchstone... It needs a compass. No question. C40 = Clam-shell 4G, opening from the side. Just my wild guess. - Slider like the pre - Screen rotates 90 degrees so you can type while screen is in landscape - Much longer battery life - slightly larger screen, thinner - water resistant up to 10 meters the end That is the number one thing I want to see on the new phone, the screen can rotate when the sider is open so you can use the phone in landscape and type, and then turn it back and use it in portrat for IMing and stuff like that The other stuff would be nice too, but if I could only pick on thing to change on my pre it would be to have it rotate I think that the c40 is a feature phonee using web os as the os. It will introduce smartphone goodness to the masses. Struggling companies like palm need to make a mass market phone. The pre in it's current form can't compete with apple and google right now in mass market appeal. It can't compete with rim in business. So what I think is that they need to make a feature phone that will be cheap and sold en mass. I'm thinking that it will be a crippled form of webos. Generic dial pad with a large screen. You'll be able to use card to go through various functions like sms, pics and video. The new flagship devie from palm won't ccome for a while folks. They just don't have the funding Hmm I never really thought about it being a webOS powered feature phone...but you could be very right. I have to say though, everyone's insisting that Sprint's flagship device will come from Palm...and that it will hit sometime this year! It's all a matter of time til we know for sure. Maybe we'll know the goods by March @ the GDC in San Fransisco where Palm will be hitting the stage...& that's a good thing for us webOS lovers =) C= Clearwire 40=4G I'm simple I just want it to be the palm grand prixi I'm simple I just want it to be the palm grand prixi I'm willing to bet the next version of sprint's palm pre will be 4G. Sprint has already introduced their overdrive device supporting 4G which does the same as the Pre Plus (connecting multiple Wi-Fi devices). Palm would/should take full advantage of Sprint deploying devices on their 4G network. With Pre 2 being a certified hotspot device capable of 4G connection, 32Gig Mem, Video Recorder, acceptable battery life, and an anniversary launch date of June '2010, I think palm shares would shoot to the roof and change the game in regards to iPhone, Droid, Blackberry etc... JMO!!!!! GW It's a WebOS Foleo! With 1080p video and tablet format! What was Robert's comment about, about it not being likely that Palm will ever have a device with removable storage? Has Palm never had a device that took a memory card of some sort?? Anyway, I hope they have a change of heart and their next device has a microSD slot. /Kevin I know what I want in my next WebOS phone, but if wished were rainbows... the C40 is a placeholder for something or nothing. If it is something it won't be like the Pre or Pixi. Unless the "P" is the first letter of the name and not "P.alm" as we've assumed. Then the "C" might mean more, no hope for the "40" though. The question is whether the HTC Supersonic, the HTC Desire makes it on the shelves before we hear more about the C40. testicalur cancer.and you palm better put their thinking caps on as Apple did. They need a WoW device that is easily recognisable, yet different than the iPhone by the regular consumer. The Pre and Pixi hardware did not capture the consumers or business mindshare. It is frankly a dissapointment in the eyes of people that would never go on a forum such as this one. What should it be? It should be a well thought out radical design. Nothing less. Rubenstein will have to put his imprint on it. As Jobs pushed his design people, so will Rubenstein. Otherwise why hire him in the first place. It has to be the best of class. In software first, and WebOs is a great 1st. Step. Best screen. Best overall design. No compromises as the Pre & Pixi. Which are definitely not the best of class. Isn't "C" the Roman numeral for 100? Could the C40 simply be code for the Palm 140? Now for the features, that's for us all to dream about until some sort of additional rumor/find comes up. Easily, we all want more: battery life; speed; RAM; storage; network speed; screen real estate.............. I like that idea... C=100...:P. Sprint could be sneaky that way. Never thought of it that way, but it makes pretty good sense... That was mentioned a while back I believe. Regardless, yes, I noticed that. And that would coincide with this being a new device altogether, or a really convoluted numbering system (Pre: P100, Pre Plus: P101, Pixi: 120, Pixi Plus: 121). Maybe the Pre2 will be P140 (i.e. P(C40)). It should be bulletproof. I'm on my 4th Pre! Thank god for insurance!~ J/K Obviously, this whole discussion is based on wishful thinking. Only time will tell the truth. just you I am amazed that speed wasn't mentioned at all. Maybe it is just that you're used to the delay that occurs after each and every tap and you don't realize there are alternatives. Full disclosure: Having been a Treo user since the visor through the 755p, I am now an iPhone user. But, I refuse to make my wife leave Verizon since at&t truly sucks. So we're a two type of phone household. I love Palm and I am impressed with their start with the WebOS. I hope they continue to improve the WebOS, but it is as slow as molassess. The first thing my wife said when she moved from the Treo 755p to the Pre Plus was that it was oh so very slow. The Treo gives immediate response when you press a button or choose a screen option. So does the iPhone. But the Pre Plus requires a ton of patience. Also, I would add to my list of desires a more professional feel to the hardware, like a glass screen, a much better slide out keyboard (the slide doesn't 'glide.' It almost feels like there is sand in there.) Just my 2 cents. kazoo Actually speed gets mentioned every other post. Figure current processor speed is a slow 500mhz. Everyone here is asking for 1 or 1.5ghz with multiple cores even. Seeing as this round table's turned into a 'what do you want in the Pre 2 thread,' I'll throw in my $.02 wish list. I'd like it to be essentially the same footprint, but increase the screen size by shrinking the real estate between the earpiece and the screen on the top, and the gesture area on the bottom. make the phone a hair wider to and push the screen right to the edges to facilitate keeping the same aspect ratio. Then make meaningful steps forward in the hardware (battery, processor, memory, camera (in that order)). But the software is going to be the major thing. WebOS was so revolutionary when it came out, I don't know what they could add to it to make it better. My guess would be more extensive voice control, and maybe widgets. Yeah, widgets would be cool. As much as I love seeing my homescreen wallpaper, that's prime real-estate for widgets. Oh! and add more advanced/multitouch gestures. There's a great thread in the forums about that. Pie-in-the-sky for me would be 4g, and front-facing cam for video chat. That said, honestly, I think the C40 is just a Palm-branded accessory. :) I think a front facing cam even with a lower resolution would be great especially if paired with 4G for video chat. Widgets would be great. I don't need 7 pages worth of widgets, one customizable one would be great. yeah the c40 is a new Web Os phone. I do believe either Palm will release a htc pro 2 type form factor phone, or (with all the love surrounding the pixi) they'll release a pixi form factor with a larger screen maybe 3.4 3.5 (and as one of the editor stated the original pixi had room to make the screen bigger already) make the phone slightly wider to make the buttons abit bigger. Then add the 5mgp cam, the 1ghz processor, 1 gig ram and rom, 16 gig internal with sd slot, or just 16 or 32 gigs, 800x4 something resolution, and 1500 mhz battery, and you have yourself a phone that nothing android, apple, or microsoft can compete with. With Web Os already been hailed as the best OS by many forums and editors, and Palm finalizing the Base Os very soon. With a form factor everyone will love (i kinda vote for the pixi style with a bigger screen and keyboard, and yes like someone said make a virtual keyboard anyways in both landscape and portrait just because) I dont see how anyone could compete. I think also Palm made the pre and pixi to see which one people would cater to and as you can see the pixi form factor, and the pres bigger screen and power. Combine the two, bump up the specs and your good. Why do physical keyboards on most smart-phones slide-out? Can't they "hinge" or "flip" like feature-phones? I would actually want it to be a bit thicker but with a hinged design - keep reading: A hinged design by definition can provide the maximum keyboard and screen sizes within the minimum length X width, and protects them both when closed. Other benefits of this configuration should be room a larger battery, and the possibility of "closed back" functions similar to high-end feature-phones, without losing anything already mentioned. Hinged phones are much easier to open and close than the Pre and other sliders and are less fragile (no rails). It would be great if the physical keyboard could somehow switch between portrait and landscape use. The ALIAS-2 method is cool but it requires 2 large hinges. I suppose the keyboard could detach and either reattach at the "portrait end", or be wireless. Or maybe the keyboard could have a small "swivel point" in one corner and swivel 90 degrees for portrait use. The "normal phone" could be "on the back" with a dedicated phone screen and T-9 keypad, or even a full-size second screen using a "soft portrait qwerty keyboard" for portrait use. This configuration is reminiscent of ENV-TOUCH and SAMSUNG ROGUE feature-phones. This dream hi-res screen would be about 5", which would probably require it to be in a "wide" (16:9) ratio so this large device would be narrow enough to still fit in a pocket (or at least a belt case or purse) easily. And of course the highest resolution possible should be used, even 1280 X 720 (720p) if feasible. I don't ask much. i understand your design idea, but the problem with that is no one wants a bulky phone really. Also 5 inches to me is way to big, to me even 4 inches is. People need to understand its still a phone, and needs to be somewhat small and sleek like one as well. The iphone 3.5 is as big as a phone should be in my opinion. In any case too many hinges and moving parts makes the phone huge, in that case maybe you should look at getting a netbook or something. If we are going to specify things that are not likely....what about the Foleo concept. With tethering now available (how depending on carrier and software)and the concept of more cloud computing, then it stands to reason that you could develop a Foleo type device that works through the Pre/Pixi whatever. After all isn't a laptop/netbook type device a "clambshell". Maybe we keep looking for phones (and not finding anything) becasue the device itself is not a "phone" but an accessory to your phone that takes it from a kick ass handheld, to a full size kepyboard and screen (your size may vary) interface that makes the smaller device a universal communicator to the cloud. On the other hand, I have no idea or basis for this thought. But it is better than actually working. my 5ct: that is a "worldphone" Variant. The Pixis Chipset in theory is dual mode CDMA/GSM but this is not utilized yet Whoever said thank god for insurance, you really don't need insurance. If your pre gets all dented up just install both of those overclocking patches one after the other. It fries the pre and then when you take it back the stupid high school kid repair techie can't figure it out so you get a new one in an hour. Im on my 3rd pre. When people say get a screen protector i laugh at them. lol. I eat these things up like candy. I think you missed the joke. With all this wishful thinking on no basis whatsoever this whole discussion is just a "what i want in the next webos phone" talk. But speaking of patches, i didn't know they fry your phone. Are you talking about the tweaks you can install on WebOSQuickInstall or preware? And I am laughing thinking about when you will get hit with Insurance Fraud charges. Yes, it is illegal. On a note of this thread though, i bet its some kind of centro comeback phone. I bet they test the waters and if they make enough money with the other phones, they will bring back some juiced up centro with webos on it. Isn't that the Pixi? Yeah i guess you could say that. Gee, that article was informative. Not. Whatever Palm's C40 is - it has to have more RAM (@ least more than Pre Plus), more Storage (preferrebly sdCard), a glass screen (not plastic like the Pre) that's a bit bigger, dedicated headphone jack, physical keyboard (as well as virtual keyboard for landscape web use), fast processor (snapdragon/tegra II/etc) running in the 1ghz range @ the least, hi rez video/pic camera (LED Flash) w/ auto focus & zoom, "4G/WiMax", and WiFi/Bluetooth 2.0/USB 2.0/MobileHotspot/GPS. All this to running on webOS 2.0 or higher =) Now that sounds like something that could launch Palm, Sprint, and webOS up the "popularity" ladder which would finally get all those Android/Windows7/Apple money suppliers to put some of their "green" into webOS. ...and I hope it's not some sort of tablet or eReader type deal because I believe Palm needs to focus on their mobile webOS platform. Why? Well, they do not have the finances to over-extend themselves. When they have webOS and it's mobile devices taking a big chunk of the smartphone/OS pie...which is currently dominated by Apple's iPhone, Android, WinMo, and Symbian...then it can test other waters. For now however, they need to put all their focus on their devices and webOS. I have a question: ...before webOS was Palm OS, correct? Now, was that OS ever licensed out so others could make phones for the platform? Palm OS (from the Treo 600 and beyond) wasn't lisenced outside of Palm, but previous incarnations were. The massive problem with that era was most handset developers were using Palm's OS for one shot deal phones that didn't have any consistency with the other Palm phones on the market, and at one point Palm didn't even own their own OS. These factors combined to make a perfect storm of sorts that kicked Palm off of the top of the PDA market they practically owned, and because of past failures you'll never see Palm license WebOS. As nice as Android is, they have a good chance of running into a similar issue. OooO really? That's intense stuff. So pretty much Palm doesn't want to fall into that whole again huh? I already see it with Android & all it's variants. Idk...I just want Palm to succeed. Let's see... I would never buy a device with a glass screen. I wouldn't want to shatter that thing. Not to mention, Palm CANNOT use a glass multi-touch touchscreen. The reason is that Apple owns a patent for GLASS MULTI-TOUCH TOUCH SCREENS. Also, I would prefer no expansion slot over an SD slot, though a MicroSD slot would possibly be nice. And PalmOS was sold a few years back when Palm went WinMo. Palm OS's line of ownership went: U.S Robotics --> 3Com (after a merger) --> PalmSource (2002, this is where they lost ownership, although licensing had begun before this) --> ACCESS --> Palm (2006) At any rate, vertical integration FTW. Cool ideas Well I would like the new pre(if it ever comes) to be similar to the first pre.Why change something so dramatically when it won so many awards? Plus no one can deny that the sleek design is eye candy for everyone.I agree a bigger screen wouldn't be a bad thing,just keep it a slider and keep the curves.Possibly make it slimmer if it doesn't take away from performance or capabilities.It seems like so many ppl want a big change in design.The iphone has not change it's design so much that it doesn't look like an iphone.That's one of the keys to success,consistency.So basically keep the slider,keep the curves/sleekness,make the the screen bigger,maybe a better camera(although I'm satisfied with the current one),Add more memory,like 30 to 40 gigs and make the buttons a lil bigger/wider.O and I can't forget make the slider slide alot better. please feel free to let me know what you think about my comment/post. I must be tired There's a patch for that.Hide launcher bar and full screen in browser mode.Every little bit helps. C40 is probably just some error on Sprint's part. Love all the wishcasting. If it was something actually cool it would have been leaked already. The biggest update not mentioned here is build quality. No more cheap plastic that spiders from the cold. Parts need higher quality, if palm is going to compete in the high end space they need to take some risks and make the phone with high end materials. I like the form factor of the Pre, but would like a slightly bigger keyboard/screen. Desires: 4G Wimax(The 1st phone to market) Faster Processor (Snapdragon etc...) Micro SD Card Slot 5MP or greater camera OLED Screen More Battery Ability to act as a 4G mobile hotspot Web OS 2.0 update with voice commands and visual voicemail The C40 should be the size of an iPhone and have a virtual keyboard like an iPhone and be about as thin as an iPhone... come to think of it, it should be an iPhone... only running a vastly superior OS - WebOS. I think Palm will surprise us. Going back to CES 2009 (Computer Electronics Show) about one year ago, Palm introduced an award winning device called the Palm Pre. It won Best of Show, CES 2009. No one knew what to expect. Everyone was blown away. Some embraced it, while others felt that their favorite device was being upstaged. If we dare call this new device the Palm Pre II, then it will surprise us. & Palm please don't let this go on too long if the C40 is nothing to get excited about! PLEASE! remember the fantastic treo pro??? & Palm please don't let this go on too long if the C40 is nothing to get excited about! PLEASE! remember the fantastic treo pro???. I would love to see a completely new next gen phone here but I would put money on this being what I will call the Pre-4G like the Pre Plus it will just be a beefed up Pre... Of course 4G-Wimax, prolly a higher (600mhz) TIOMAP3 same ram and 16Gigs as Pre Plus, I would bet higher capacity (1400-1500mAp) battery, and maybe, maybe 5mp camera. The real key though will be WebOS 2.0 which along with 4G will make this not only a fast phone but just that much more fun to use. I LOVE GESTURES!!! why i bought a Palm! Please give us a joystick or some means of mouse cursor control so that flash can work properly..... I still don't see why you all want a bigger device. When I saw how much smaller the Pre was than anything else comparable, I breathed a sigh of relief. Someone finally listened! Now I read comments and complaints that it's too small? Hmmm... Shhh :) I keep reading that 4G is a ways away. I hope not too far. :) Hmm ... I think the C40 will be Palm's first touchscreen only device. Why? It will broaden Palm's offering and attract people who would love an iPhone-like phone and OS experience - but would never give their business to AT&T. In my opinion, Palm will always be able to sell phones with a physical keyboard, as there is a large audience who continues to prefer them over virtual keyboards. So to me, they have this part of their business in the bag. But in order for Palm to stay competitive among other cutting edge phones & operating systems, they need to enter the touchscreen-only realm. It's essential to their survival. When Palm introduces its first touchscreen-only device, all those people who are on the fence about webos will FINALLY have something that they deem comparable to the iPhone. Because a phone that still carries a physical keyboard will never be taken seriously by this unique user group that I believe Palm so desperately needs to win over.

- Restaurants | - Nightlife | - Shopping | - Movies | - All Anatolia Cafe Category: Restaurants Turkish Turkish [Edit]2270 Lee Rd Cleveland Heights, OH 44118 (216) 321-4400 - Price Range: - $$ - Accepts Credit Cards: - Yes - Parking: - Street - Attire: - Casual - Good for Groups: - Yes - Good for Kids: - Yes - Takes Reservations: - Yes - Delivery: - No - Take-out: - Yes - Waiter Service: - Yes - Outdoor Seating: - Yes - Wi-Fi: - Free - Good For: - Dinner - Alcohol: - Full Bar - Noise Level: - Average - Has TV: - No - Wheelchair Accessible: - Yes 50 reviews for Anatolia Cafe Review Highlights - "I love the sour cherry juice." In 3 reviews - - "I had the lamb adana here, which was very good." In 2 reviews 50 reviews in English Review from Andrew Z. Stars: 4 We ordered 2 dishes: skender (Shavarma with yogurt) and Sigara Böregi (served with any small salad). The iskender is thinly cut/marinaded lamb over a bed of fried tofu. The sauce they use is really good. Light and brings out the flavor of the lamb. Unfortunately, they did not give you a lot of meat. Im guessing probably 1/4 lb of lamb. The Sigara somewhat reminded me of crab rangoons, haha. They are eggroll-shaped-fried-with-cheese-filled-wraps.... Yea, it tasted good, and if you order this dish, you will probably agree that the description above is as close as you are going to get with this dish. Oh, the salad they serve with it is generous in quantity and NO spinach or lettuce (which really just takes up room and makes the salad look big). The salad is cucumber and tomato based. Service was excellent. Some reviews suggest otherwise, but we had no problem here. Why is this rated so high? you HAVE to try this dessert: Kunefe, which is "baked shredded phyllo doguh with white sweet cheese and butter honey syrup." SO GOOD. so good. Crunchy on the outside and sweet in the inside. NOTE: This takes 15 minutes to make. Just tell them that you plan on ordering this for dessert as you order the main course. Very spacious restaurant. Review from Joyce P. 3.5-4! I can't believe it's taken me years to get to Anatolia Cafe when it's practically down the street from me. I came here for lunch with a friend, and we were really pleased with the $10 lunch deal! I had the red lentil soup (deeeelicious) and the vegetarian stew. I thought both were very tasty (though the vegetarian stew was on the salty side). My friend had the baba ghanouj, which was made with REAL roasted eggplant. We devoured that one really quickly. I'd have to say that out of all the dishes, that the baba was crave-worthy and by far the best. I'll have to try some of other vegetarian fare at another time. It's rather spacious inside with very relaxing decor. The service was prompt, though we were somewhat startled by 2 waiters who were simultaneously working our table. They looked eerily similar, which caused us some confusion. Haha. Listed in: The Yelp 100 Challenge! Review from Shawn Paul G. - 22 friends - 27 reviews Cleveland, OH Here's the situation... this place is located right down the road from my house which means I walk past it non-stop and the smell of the freshly baking pita lures me in and commands me to order one of the many Turkish delights that they offer. This wouldn't be a problem if I had any self control, but I don't. I can not get enough of their fried feta (no clue what the true menu name is) or the absolutely delicious Peasant Salad. The dressing on the salad is house made and wickedly scrumptious. This is also the place I tend to frequent when I am on a bit of a diet or trying to avoid eating meat. There is always a healthy vegetarian option on the menu that is going to be filling and flavorful. That being said, the meats here are so perfectly seasoned and served! The chicken is always juicy and he filet is the right temperature. The dining room is gorgeous and the wine bar within is a great spot to chill. The prices can get a bit high, but the quality and freshness out way the expense. If you are seeking a meal that is a bit on the extraordinary side, this is a great spot. The servers are always friendly and the service is always efficient. Overall great place! Review from Bryan S. Disgusting just had a bloody band-aid in my food, and the manager won't come out to talk to me he sends out a busboy. Stay away calling the health dept right now!!! So the sackless manager is hiding out won't talk to me but offers me 25% off my bill. Realy, no im sorry or any apology I have never been so insulted or grossed out in my life!!! Review from R. M. This place is great. The food and service is good. I recommend the platter of appetizers and the apple tea. Review from Kristen S. - 1 friend - 3 reviews Palm Beach Gardens, FL Absolute WORST dining experience I have ever had. My poor husband mid way through his dinner found himself chewing on something with an odd texture. What does he spit our but a used band aid! I wanted to throw up right there at the table. Upon informing the wait staff of the situation they offered to give his meal for free...... Are they kidding???? We were in a party of 6 people and they actually expected us to pay for this horrifying experience. They then gave us a $40 gift card, as if we would EVER return to this place again. If someone has a cut on their hand and is handling food in a kitchen, shouldn't they be required to wear gloves? The health department will be notified first thing in the morning. Bad situation, and even worse was the pitiful way the management handled the situation. Review from Alessandro S. - 0 friends - 40 reviews Shaker Heights, OH Love Anatolia. We often go after a 7:00 film down the road, sit at the high tables by the bar and order a few drinks, baba and wonderful lamb kebabs.The rice and seasonal vegetables are always deceptively flavorful. Reasonably priced wine by the glass is a much appreciated rarity Review from Adil S. Good restaurant and good food. The place is busy on weekends. The food is good and semi-authentic. E service vary from one visit to another. Review from Amanda K. eating here made me think only one thing: WHAT DIDN'T I COME HERE SOONER?!?!??!! I came for lunch, and we all got the lunch combos, amazing deals. and I mean amazing. Soup or salad and an entree for like $10? Can't beat that. I had the chicken soup which was wonderful, and my mom had the lentil soup, which was phenomenal. Best lentil soup I've ever had (except for my bf's moms!). My boyfriend and I split the stuffed cabbage (which I am literally drooling over just thinking about) and the chicken shish, which was juicy, flavorful, and came with a great yogurt sauce. if you haven't been here yet, get to steppin! Review from Summer L. Excellent food, I'm haunted by the sigara boregi (in part because I don't remember how it is spelled.) because the bar has such a great range of drinks available, there are some grownup-worthy nonalcoholic drinks as well. (I love the sour cherry juice.) 1 Previous Review: Show all » Very satisfying. The food is terrific, the service ... well, not really all that memorable, which… Read more » Review from Sam H. I came in on a rainy night, 10/20/2011 to be specific at about 6. I asked if the combos came with the rice and vegetables, and the hostess confirmed they were. I then asked for a table and was soon seated. I had picked out a combo of the turkish equivalent of shwarma, and the ground lamb that had onions. I then waited for 15 minutes while the rest of the staff played a game of pretend Sam H. Doesn't exist. They won, after 15 minutes of not being asked if I wanted anything to drink, or to know what the specials were I left. I had my menu closed, in front of me for 14 of those minutes. I made eye contact with different members of the wait staff, to no avail. I would recommend not going to Anatolia Cafe, probably ever. On a night where 3 other tables had occupants, I was paid no mind. The food may be tasty, but it's not worth being treated poorly, as I was last night, this is a fact. Across the street is the much more affordable Stone Oven. Try them instead! Review from Wendy H. This is some of the freshest food I have ever eaten. It absolutely sparkles. I agree that this is one of the best values for mediterranean food that I can recall having had: just truly top notch, from the apricot juice through the perfectly-balanced entrees (the sauces are particularly good). Simple dishes you thought you knew, like baba ganoush, are so delicious that they are redefined. In fact, two of us often get a large appetizer plate as an "entree," supplementing with a soup and more (fresh! so fresh!) feta. Atmosphere is warm (gorgeous kilim, beautiful rich colors) indoors, delightful outdoors (well, except for the unavoidable traffic) and the service is perfect. I have to force myself not to go to this place every week! Review from Doug W. My first time in a Turkish restaurant. Worth the trip. I had a very good beef and lamb dish. Reasonably priced. Review from Jay S. I had the lamb adana here, which was very good. The sides weren't very creative (white rice and cabbage salad), but the lamb was well seasoned and tender. Good baklava and Turkish tea finish off the experience. I would recommend! It seems to be in a trendy neighborhood and has a trendy feel. It has also done the very wise move of offering the baked goods at the front of the restaurant/cafe so you can just stop in for a desert or snack to take home. Review from Megan S. Visit there the first time yesterday. I ordered the lamb adana. It was delicious! The presentation was not extravagant. My fiancé ordered the chicken sautée and really liked it. I tried a bite, it actually tasted a lot like pizza topping. Probably because of the onions and peppers. The waiter was not very attentive to us. Not sure if it was a one time thing or the time of the day? We walked their from home 5 PM on a Friday. In any case, this is a restaurant that I will visit again. Review from Ferrett S. - 37 friends - 73 reviews Rocky River, OH A really nice little Turkish/Mediterranean place by the Cedar Lee theater - so after you're done seeing the latest snooty art flick, you can wash it down with some kebabs. The food here isn't fancy, but it is eminently satisfying. Their yogurt kebabs are absolutely amazing, full of tasty chicken in a moist yogurt-based sauce that's zingy and beautiful. Their baba ghanoush is a little grainy, but tastes good. In fact, everything here tastes good - it's the kind of restaurant that's never exceptional, but literally anything you can point to on the menu is going to satisfy. Plus, the atmosphere is very relaxing. The staff are friendly, the tables cozy, and they'll let you talk for hours. Never had a problem here. It's not the kind of top-shelf place where I'd take my family when I wanted to impress them, but it IS the kind of place I keep going back to with my friends when I want to chat over some food. It's homey, in all the best ways. Recommended. Review from Joanna L. Having just moved from Chicago, we are a little nervous about finding food that matches what we're used to. We were lucky to find Anatolia as I think they come pretty close. The prices were a little on the high end, but the food was delicious. Our waiter was a bit surly, but he provided some recommendations and we were glad we listed to him as they were very good. Tip: Ask your waiter for recommendations, even if you're familiar with Turkish food because you may be pleasantly surprised. Review from Camilla G. Cleveland, OH This is one of my favorite neighborhood places. And I love it that a Turkish place counts as a neighborhood place in my neighborhood. (Redundant, I know). Service is impeccable, and the food is pretty amazing. All the doner dishes are delightful. Try a can of the sour cherry juice. Yum. Review from Nicole M. For the first time in six years of faithfully eating at, recommending, and otherwise championing this establishment, I asked to speak with the manager/ owner after an evening of comically, egregiously poor service. Upon hearing of my party's discontent, he got up in my face, pointing at me, argued with me about the root of our displeasure, and ultimately added the glass of wine back on that had (accidentally?) been left off our check. Is it surprising I will never return to Anatolia? Of course, I prefer Istanbul in Tremont now; the staff is so much nicer and the food is even a step up, and it is less expensive. Review from Pisted O. Had dinner here last week. We left the restaurant and was assaulted by a gang of thugs. I ended up in the hospital. Lee road is unsafe. I contacted the cafe owner he never returned my call. I even stopped by and he would not see me. I dont think you want to give your money to a guy like this. The assault occurred very close to his restaurant. Avoid this place and know there are lots of robberies on lee road. Review from Jessi N. I've been hearing about Anatolia from a bunch of friends and finally got to try it last Saturday for dinner. We were able to get a patio table for our small group of 5. The patio was pretty packed since it was such a nice day out. First off, the food was great. We shared the Mixed appetizer so we could try everything. The hummus and tabouleh were reaaaally good. I got the Beef Saute which was tasty and a pretty large portion. I tried someones Chicken Shish which was also good, the chicken was moist and not overcooked. As much as we liked the food, the service was lacking that night. When we first got there, our waiter was telling us drink specials for happy hour and then said "Actually, if it's after 7 there are no more specials." It was close to 9 already. Whoops. After looking at the drink menu we also noticed that happy hour drink specials are only Mon-Thurs...and it was a Saturday. Another whoops. He didn't seem too familiar with the menu when he asked him about the appetizers. He was also not very attentive and we had to wave him down whenever we wanted something. At this point we asked if he was new and he said "Yes fairly new, about 1 month." Okay, we decide to cut him some slack. We finally ask for the check and some boxes. After giving him our cards and cash, another waiter came by asking us again what we wanted to do and was confused about the concept of charging the cards with X amount first and using the cash second. My friend mentioned they may have been worried we weren't going to tip but they shouldn't presume. Sadly it didn't end there, the next day when I excitedly went to the fridge to get my leftovers I found that he gave me the wrong leftovers. Not only did he give me the extra appetizers but he had put the pita bread to go with it in another bag that I presume was my leftovers. :( If I could give 3.5 stars I would because I liked the food, but the service was pretty terrible. I'll probably go back and cross my fingers the bad service was just a one time thing... I'll keep you updated. Review from Amanda S. My mom and I were in Cleveland on business and were staying in Beachwood for the night. I got on Yelp to find somewhere local and "ethnic" for dinner and Anatolia's reviews were great, so we decided to check it out. The food was FANTASTIC! The doner kebab was probably the best I've ever had, and the dish I had (it was ground lamb inside of egg plant) was wonderful. We had baba ghanoush for an appetizer and it was so amazing I could have just eaten that. We were stuffed, but couldn't resist some desert, so we took some back the hotel, and it was also great. I drank rosehips tea which was unlike any other tea I'd ever had. The interior was very nice and cozy, and the staff was helpful and quite pleasant. I thought for the price it was definitely a good deal! The next time I'm in Cleveland, I'm definitely going back! Review from Jeff E. Dinner was a delight at this spiffy little Turkish place. As expected, you'll get Mediterranean delights with the Turkish slant, but the atmosphere, service, and food are spot-on, and the prices are way more than fair. Be aware that parking here in this area at night is very difficult and though they have a lot behind the building it only has room for a few cars. Tip: Order a shot of the Raki before getting started. It's a Turkish equivalent to Ouzo and has a similar flavor. But importantly, only well-heeled travelers know about Raki and you'll get bonus points from your server for getting it. They'll serve it with a dish of ice on the side...drop in a couple of cubes as this is how they drink it...watered down just a tad. The water reacts to the Raki and turns it from crystal clear to milky white. The science experiment alone is worth it! Review from Teenie K. I showed up at this place with higher expectations I suppose, which might explain my 3-star rating. So being that the Cleveland area lacks diversity in the ethnic-food scene, I was looking forward to some good authentic Turkish grub for a change. I forgot the name of the dish I ordered, but the mental image remains fresh in my brain: cubes of grilled lamb, an ice-cream scoop of white rice, and a small, almost like a garnish of carrots, green peppers, and onions. Despite the simple presentation, I mercifully held off yelp-judgement until my first bite. The lamb wasn't bland or dry, that's good. White rice is well, white rice - any asian can tell you that. And they didn't mess up salting and peppering their sauteed veggies. So the meal was okay, but my mom can make that. What made it Turkish???????? And why did I pay $17 for that? Forget Whole Foods, I'll go to Giant Eagle and make it myself. I'll even call it Moroccan. Review from Ferdinand H. Cleveland, OH Is it Turkish, or Russian? I have no idea, but they have both Russian and Turkish beers on the menu. The food was solid; babbaganoush, Schawarma, Grape Leaf rolls all made for a mean meal, served promptly out in a cool Cleveland summer night. A good place to relax in the summer, this place is right down the street for me. Makes me quite happy, trying out my broken Russian. Review from Habby H. In getting ready for my trip to Turkey, I figured I'd check out some Turkish food at Anatolia. If you like grilled meat, you will love this place. Turkish food consists of a lot of kebabs, dips and soft warm pita. Good stuff. For an appetizer, I had the Ezme, which is minced tomatoes, walnuts, onions, parsley, garlic, spices and a lemon olive oil dressing. It was excellent on the homemade pita. I highly recommend this. For my entree, I opted for the Doner, which is a shaved lamb and beef mixture. Unfortunately, it was basically gyro meat... I would have liked to try something more out of the ordinary, but it was my own fault. I ordered it. It was really good though. The meat was served sliced with a side of rice pilaf and some (mushy and unnecessary) veggies. Also on the side, some cucumber yogurt sauce and warm pita. I made mini gyros with it. The decor is great. Lots of pretty Turkish rugs and various wall hangings. The outdoor patio is huge and really nice as well. If you like Aladdin's, you will love Anatolia. I will definitely be back! Review from Stephanie S. Scottsdale, AZ Wow. Baby boomers were here in full effect on Saturday night. I felt like I was crashing everyone's parents' date night. The main dining room was a bit noisy but the excellent decor, service, and food more than made up for it. The mixed cold appetizer included just about everything you can spread on a pita. The spicy diced vegetables were easily my favorite item on the platter, followed by the stuffed grape leaves. The baba ganoush was not especially garlicky or eggplanty tasting and didn't wow me. For entrees, the menu is very meat-heavy. I had the Chicken Adana Kebab, which consisted of ground chicken in a tomato-butter sauce with yogurt on top of pita "croutons" which looked like pieces of pita bread. I would recommend this dish if you're looking for something different but not too out-there. Others at the table ordered the Chicken Shish and Chicken Kebab which didn't look too exciting, as they consisted of chicken hunks with rice and chicken hunks with sauce, respectively. For dessert we split the baklavah. It was incredibly sweet and rich, and was just the right amount for each of us to have a few bites. Review from Mike B. I got a taste for doner kebabs after living in Germany where doner stands are located like every 10 feet through out the country These things are for real tasty. Anatolia has the doner on lock down in Cleveland being that as far as I know, you can't get this Turkish delight anywhere else in town. That said, I'm a little let down by their service after they moved to their new location on Lee road, but they seem to be really busy, so maybe it's just a new staff acclimating thing. Review from Frans S. The place has a great ambiance but that's about it! Our waiter was a pompous, rude jerk. The food is mediocre at best & they don't even serve real Turkish bread which is some of the best in the world! Compared to the Turkish places in Chicago, in Andersonville, that I've eaten at, it's a bad culinary joke. Just another greedy smuck owner praying on the inquisitive mid-western public!! It's very sad because Turkish cuisine is some of the best in the world also, if it's done right! The owner should be ashamed of himself for being such a bad ambassador to his country! Review from Scott H. Anatolia recently moved from Cedar Center to the Cedar Lee neighborhood. It's a whole new ballgame at the new location! The restaurant is spacious, sunlight flows in, and the décor is comfortable and designed in very good taste. We split the Mixed Appetizer which we all enjoyed - the eggplant being the favorite. We loved the Lamb Shish Kebab but weren't too crazy about the Chicken Saute. The rice pudding dessert was awesome. Service was solid - our server was personable, sincere, and seemed to be enjoying himself! Anatolia is a great bet for reasonably priced and well-prepared food. I'll probably come quite often for takeout ... Review from Scott R. Lots of interesting choices. I had an eggplant appetizer with a theoretically spicy tomato sauce; and doner (gyro meat) on croutons with a fresh yogurt. Everything was very pleasant, but just a bit bland to my taste. I also had a Turkish wine (from Anatoly?) for the first time, and thought the same thing - pleasant enough, just not standout. I have no hesitation recommending you try it too. Review from H R. First off I loved my server. She was a very pleasant girl from Russia that was a pleasure to talk to about coming to Cleveland. Second off the owner (I assume) was on hand at all times to make sure dishes were out on time, people were seated, and very involved. From a servers standpoint this could be intimidating but from the customer's point of view it was good to feel taken care of. We ate outside and loved the space. Lee Road is a great location and this is important! I saw the old location and it just seemed less appealing. This was far from the case on Lee. The food was wonderfully spiced and featured veggies like okra. I never knew I was such an okra fan. Well I tell you...yumm! I like the feeling of a light yet fulfilling and healthy dish for especially the summer. On the flip side the warmth of the spices and the heartiness of the sauces make the food pleasurable for even the cooler months. I have already recommended this new location to my friends and as a lover of Yelp friendship I am recommending it to you as well. Eat on! Review from Michael S. - 4 friends - 21 reviews Cleveland, OH Great atmosphere with great (Americanized-ish) Turkish cuisine. Their wraps with a bowl of soup is the perfect lunch. Anatolia's felafel is probably my favorite in Cleveland. When I go there for dinner, I have to start off with their lentil soup, falafel and hummus (yes, all three). By the time I get to their entree i am normally stuffed, but I still manage to thoroughly enjoy their Kofta. Review from Lisa C. Fresh ingredients, well made, great service, wonderful ambiance. Just had lunch, can't wait to go back for dinner! Review from Funglin W. Cleveland, OH I've been to this restaurant twice and loved it both times. The service is great and the food is delicious with just the right portion. I loved the Beef stir fry dish they have. Also, if you get their hummus, drip some olive oil on it! And, be sure to get a cup of Turkish Coffee without sugar or cream..absolutely fantastic! Review from Kristin F. - 2 friends - 5 reviews Los Gatos, CA Anatolia recently moved from the little shopping center on Cedar to new space on Lee. The new space is large but warm and it's good to see they are doing so well. It can be busy at times, but I have never had trouble getting a table or had the service suffer. The food is great! I tend to gravitate towards the Iskender (doner kebabs over croutons with a tomato and yogurt sauce-mmmmm soo good) But everything else I have had there is delicious as well. And it is hard for me to resist finishing the meal without some of their Baklava. Everything is tasty and I really enjoy going here. Review from Indrany D. - 8 friends - 26 reviews Cleveland, OH Pretty standard (or a little above), I think. Didn't knock my socks off, and I've been a few times. But certainly not bad, and I keep going back. I like the music too. Review from Vince M. I love the Anatolia Cafe. Never go wrong here!! Great Baba Ganoush and atmosphere is always fun. Lamb is always good and i never miss their turkish tea. Just wish it was closer so I could go more often. Out door seating in the summer is great. Review from Jennifer S. - 13 friends - 50 reviews Seattle, WA So glad we were able to check out their spacious and beautifully decorated new location on our recent trip to Cleveland. Food as good as ever! Review from John P. I can't understand why people like the food here so much. I've been there twice and it was very bland. I asked for my food spicy and it was less than mild. I've had better Kebabs a sixth of the price of theirs. The ambience is nice but other than that......

- Restaurants | - Nightlife | - Shopping | - Movies | - All Anatolia Mediterranean Restaurant Category: Restaurants Mediterranean Mediterranean [Edit]212 S Federal Hwy Boca Raton, FL 33432 (561) 361-4000 - Hours: Mon-Thu 11:30 am - 10 pm Fri-Sat 11:30 am - 11 pm Sun 10:30 am - 10 pm - Good for Groups: - Yes - Accepts Credit Cards: - Yes - Parking: - Street - Attire: - Casual - Price Range: - $$ - Good for Kids: - Yes - Takes Reservations: - Yes - Take-out: - Yes - Waiter Service: - Yes - Outdoor Seating: - Yes - Good For: - Dinner - Alcohol: - No - Noise Level: - Quiet - Ambience: - Casual - Has TV: - No - Wheelchair Accessible: - Yes 33 reviews for Anatolia Mediterranean Restaurant Review Highlights - "...become my favorite Middle Eastern/Mediterranean restaurant..." In 4 reviews - "Turkish food rocks." In 4 reviews - 33 reviews in English Review from Wendy R. We love Turkish food and were excited to find a Turkish restaurant near our hotel. We had a fabulous meal at a very reasonable price. The service is very friendly and we were happy to discover this was a BYOB establishment. We brought in a bottle of white to enjoy with our dinner, which was as tasty as I remember my meals in Istanbul. The owner (we presume) is a very friendly and sweet woman who greeted us at the door and was happy to make recommendations, and was genuinely delighted to hear we enjoyed our meal. We ordered zucchini pancakes and a delicious simple salad of baby greens with EVOO, fresh cracked pepper, salt, and lemon juice. A great start. All tables are given baskets of pillowy-soft pita bread and an olive spread, which we could have eaten by the pound. We also ordered doner kabob (beef & lamb) and a pureed cauliflower & cheese side (not sure of the name) which could be eaten by fork or dipped into with the pita - you can guess which option we chose! The kabob meat was soft and flavorful, sliced perfectly thinly, and served atop bulgar wheat, rice, and onion salad. We are both huge fans of lamb meat and weren't disappointed in this plate. The gracious hostess brought out complimentary pieces of some of the best baklava either of us had ever had - flaky, soft pastry, ground nuts, and just the right amount of honey - yum. We were very pleased with the size of our order, and were relieved that we didn't each order our own entree. If you like sharing lots of dishes as a couple of group, this restaurant will suit you just fine. Our waiter seemed a bit "in the weeds" but was friendly when he did get around to us. If you're in a rush to get out, you may get impatient with waiting for a bill, but we were content to wait a bit and didn't feel rushed to finish our food or wine. We are headed back for lunch today on our last day of vacation, and are excited to try the lentil soup, chicken kabob, and more of the heavenly baklava. This is a must-eat for anyone visiting the Boca Raton/ Del Ray/ Deerfield Beach area.Comment from Nuran and Nadir J. of Anatolia Mediterranean Restaurant 1/8/2012Thank you YELP and all the YELPERs. The opportunity that… More » Review from ZachTax S. - 0 friends - 27 reviews Boca Raton, FL Just arrived: 3:00pm. My lady & I are the only ones in the entire restaurant yet the service still sucks. The waiter is more interested in sitting & eating with his friends than taking care of customers. Never offered us anything to drink, just put tap water on the table and walked away. Came back, took our order with attitude and walked away without a word. ..... Here comes the food.... brings our order separately and drops them in front of us without a word.... still no offer of a beverage or anything else. First and foremost the lamb pretty chewy. Gyros have a funny aftertaste, Bulgur tasted like old socks. Dip acitity far too high. Sautee average. Good rice & bread, yet whole experience way overpriced! On the way out we had to take time to inform the chef & owner of the horrible service. Fortunately, they had a great attitude and seemed sincerely thankful that we took time to let them know. I think that waiter is screwed. But you shouldn't be a server if you don't want to take care of people. Review from Talia G. Having my parents celebrating New Year's eve with me, I was a bit limited as to what our plans were. I wanted to avoid downtown Fort Lauderdale... way too loud and crowded. So instead I did a quick search for NYE restaurant reservations. Most - if not all - of them have special fixed-price 3 or 4 course meals. However, by announcing "complimentary champagne at midnight" they feel the need to charge exorbitant prices for said NYE meals. I have no problem in paying for a "special event" outing, if it includes maybe some sort of entertainment or other "specialties" not usually included in the regular dinner menu. But I was having a hard time paying $100 per person at a place where normally it would cost $60 per person (including wine!) To the rescue came Anatolia Mediterranean Restaurant. They didn't advertise a fixed price menu option but noted that they'd be serving their regular dinner menu at their regular dinner prices. PLUS.... it's a BYOB place!. With a super low ($5/bottle) corkage fee, this place was a godsend to celebrate a nice NYE dinner with my parents. The owner of the restaurant was working that night and came over numerous times throughout our meal to check on us. She was charming and very welcoming. And because of this (and the excellent quality of the food) I will definitely be coming back. If you want authentic, delicious Turkish food - Anatolia Mediterranean Restaurant is for you! Listed in: Boca quick bites Review from Maria B. I stopped by on a recent visit to Boca Raton. This is a must visit place when in Boca Raton and you like Mediterranean cuisine, or want to try it out. They have a wide selection of authentic dishes, the ingredients are fresh, and the spices are perfectly balanced. The octopus appetizer dish is to die for and both the beef and chicken gyro sandwiches were delicious. Complimentary hot pita bread wedges and tomato based dipping sauce, as well as, BYOB for a small corkage fee are big pluses. Review from Melanie C. - 3 friends - 14 reviews Arlington, VA What a fantastic dinner I had at Anatolia with my family tonight. From the moment we walked in I felt so taken care of with a kind greeting and acknowledgement. The menu options are plentiful with choices to meet anyone's preferences....even my very picky brother. The service is stellar and you won't feel forgotten even for a minute, with constant drink refreshers and pleasant attentiveness that is never overbearing. Take the servers suggestions on house favorites, take a moment to chat with the lovely owner when she stops by, and save a little room for a light yet satisfying Turkish dessert. You'll be glad you came. Review from Jonathan S. - 14 friends - 5 reviews Wellington, FL We had a very nice meal at Anatolia this evening. Fresh bread was warm and tasty and the tomato/oil dip had a great flavor to it. Salad was large enough for the two of us. The Baba Ghanouj was a bit on the mild side but with some fresh lemon mixed in it worked pretty well. Lamb shish kebab was VERY well cooked with tender meat and not overly-spiced. The Karniyarik was a nice slice of eggplant that was well cooked topped with a fresh flavorful ground lamb and a nice sauce. We left very full and will definitely return. The only constructive criticism I can offer is that the service seemed a bit chaotic... Best way I can describe it is a few newer inexperienced servers coupled with a lot of running around in the kitchen. It's not a big negative, but to me the difference between a 4-star and 5-star rating is as much the consistency and quality of the overall service experience as it is for the food itself. EVERYBODY was pleasant which is worth noting. Bottom line, I have a feeling they have taken note of some of the service issues people have expressed in the past and are making genuine efforts to create consistency. Keep it up! Review from Tough C. Mushroom soup, a special, was not. No robust mushroom flavor. I got the appetizer combo of hummus, babaganoush, eggplant salad and something else I can't remember, but it had a lot of tomato.. I love hummus, but this was just chickpea paste. The eggplant salad was excellent and easily the best of the group. They accommodated my gluten sensitivity by providing romaine lettuce spears for me to dip in the dips. My companion had the ground lamb kebab which passed muster. Review from Ann B. I love Mediterranean food!!... and this is a great place to try in boca. I was really impressed with this place , and I absolutely loved the appetizers they were awesome, but the lamb chops too die for!!... Perfectly grilled pieces of art. They came accompanied with veges and hummus The service was also superb. They kept making sure we were happy! the drinks are B.Y.O.B! freakin' awesome !!!... Deserts re yummy too! better than my moms. Go by and try it is a really special place. Review from Jeff M. This has quickly become our favorite restaurant in south Fla. The food is very tasty and the portions are tremendous. My wife has ordered the chicken kabob which is excellent. I have had the gyro plate and an eggplant dish which was excellent. Appetizers are all done with great care. Don't end without the finest baklava around. Service is excellent. Bring your own booze as they don't have a liquor license but that is no drawback For absolute value in Palm Beach County, this place is it!!! 1 Previous Review: Show all » My wife and I stumbled onto this place on Friday night. Now that we know where it is, we will be… Read more » Review from Sabrina S. - 0 friends - 7 reviews La Jolla, CA Literally just leaving dinner here with my boy friend and I am astonished anyone could have anything negative to say about this place. The food is exquisite. You MUST order the zucchini pancakes and the baklava. Those alone are worth making the trip, but all the hard-to-pronounce dishes were full of authentic flavors...... Not to mention, it's BYOB. The owner is incredibly sweet and tells me she really takes these reviews into consideration. My only problem was the lack of parking. I parked in a nearby shopping plaza and definitely worried about getting towed(it's happened to me before), but alas my car was fine and my hunger thoroughly satisfied. Anatolia, you haven't seen the last of me! Review from Danny F. I came here with a big group for a family dinner, and though it seemed like it took forever to get here (from So. Miami), I was told this place was beast. When we walked in the door, it was incredible how easy and seamless they sat us all down, gave us menus, and brought us corkscrews. Oh yeah, this place is BYOB. Looking at tables around us, the other patrons looked to be veterans as they all were popping bottles like the set of a hip hop video. When we all decided to get three (or four) of their all-in-one dishes, I had a feeling that that night was going to be a good night. We opened a few bottles and it didn't take long until the food arrived. The greedy in me wants to tell you the portions weren't big enough, but i'd be lying if said I wasn't more than satisfied after all that was on that plate (See picture). Everything was delicious, and the restaurant itself set up a good vibe for wine and family. All in all, this place has sparked an interest in mediterranean food for me, and I've been eating falafel and kibbeh like crazy since. Review from Halley E. Ambiance is minimal , but service and food superb. My friends and I tried a myriad of delicacies and enjoyed each one of them. There was no issue with having more bread or sauces or really anything that we requested. The staff were clean and pleasant and even the owner came by to greet our table. Review from Leslie K. Wasn't sure where I could go in South Florida that would satisfy my vegan needs and my carnivorous father but this place satisfied all. Turkish food rocks! The bread has been wonderful at every Turkish restaurant I've been to -- NY, Florida, and California. The four of us shared platters of hot and cold appetizers -- all vegetarian. The flat little falafels were quite yummy and moist. The hummus and babaganoush were rich and creamy. Dad and his wife had lamb dishes and practically licked their plates clean. My partner had a calamari dish that was much appreciated. To top it off we shared a delicious and not very sweet piece of baklava (okay, sometimes this vegan has a bit of honey...besides it's just past Rosh Hashana). Review from Mary-Ann I. - 2 friends - 36 reviews West Palm Beach, FL Decent food, but incredibly slow service. My friend and I came here for lunch a couple days ago. We started off with some hummus which was somewhere between average and above-average. I then had the Begendi, a dish I've never tried before, and I very much enjoyed it. I ended with the almond pudding which was also good. Although our server was friendly, I'm not sure I've ever had such slow service before. It took forever from the time we asked for more bread, to us actually getting it. Same goes for our diet cokes, and also our check. One other thing bothered me. At one point, a woman whom I'm assuming was the owner came out and greeted the three or four tables that were there. She made a comment to us and to another table that the waiters must be trying to save her money, because the place was so warm. The restaurant was indeed warm, and we admitted that to her. She said that the AC was on, but the doors were open and that they were going to cool the place off. The doors were never closed. The restaurant never cooled off. I would rather she had never brought it up, then to have brought it up and then not deliver. In the end, the place isn't bad, but nothing about it is drawing me back to visit again. Review from Thais A. Really really good! We had the grilled octopus which looked real freaky but tasted amazing!!!! We also ordered the spinach and Gorgonzola calzone which was delicious! And lastly we ordered the stuffed eggplant. Which was alright. Overall great service, great experience and the bread with olive oil dip they serve at the beginning is sensational. Btw-- it's byob which works out great because you can splurge on other dishes.. and you definitely want to splurge on other dishes! Review from Tamra P. So it was my first time to Boca Raton (well, anywhere in Florida for that matter), and also the first time meeting the boyfriend's parents. Needed to find a good restaurant for the night. No pressure, right? Thanks to Yelpers we made the decision to check out Anatolia. It was pretty busy for a Sunday night. Nice atmosphere, low key yet had a nice vibe. The staff was very attentive and friendly, seemed like a family restaurant. Hmm, what's Turkish food? Apparently Turkish food is a lot like Greek food. We shared a cold appetizer plate that included hummus, baba ganoush, grape leaves, and veggies as well as a Greek salad. Unfortunately I don't remember the names of anything we had but they were sure yummy! My bf had some sort of lamb with vegetables and potatoes that was flavorful and hearty. I had one of the specialties that was a stuffed eggplant with meat on it and some tomatoes on the side. His mom had what looked like stewed lamb that was also very tasty. Portion sizes were generous--could easily take half home for another meal later. BYOB too! Prices were reasonable and overall great experience. Anatolia and I both seemed to "pass the test". Review from Cherine A. Coconut Creek, FL As I've written before, I do love middle eastern food, and was happy to find one nearer to my home than my usual go-to spots. So my dad (who is Persian) and I ventured up Federal Highway for dinner. When we walked in, we saw that while they appeared to be decently busy, there were also plenty of open tables. So when the host asked if we had a reservation, we said no and looked at each other as if to say, "seriously?" But the host fetched us some menus and sat us in the middle of the restaurant. He turned out to be our waiter as well. To start, they bring you a basket of bread and a small dish of olives. We devoured both - my dad said the bread tasted just like the bread from the bakery in his hometown in Iran. To start, we ordered the yogurt and cucumber dish. They brought quite a large bowl of it, so we had to ask for 2 more bread baskets in order to eat it. It was delicious and the cucumber wasn't overwhelming, but by the end of it we were full... and we still had our main dishes coming. Thankfully, I only ordered a small portion of the falafel, while my dad opted for the chicken kabobs. My dad loved the chicken - it was marinated and flavorful, and I even snuck two pieces for myself. It came with a small side salad on the plate, as well as rice and what appeared to be couscous. We both tried the couscous and were not fans. As for my falafel, they were good, but I got tired of them a bit quickly. I ate three of them before calling it quits. We got a to-go box for the remainder of the chicken and falafel, and I also ordered their rice pudding to go so I could try it the next day (and it was quite good when I had it for breakfast!). All in all, I liked this place, but I prefer my other usual Mediterranean restaurants. Review from Boo P. I came in town for business and Yelped a place to eat. I found Anatolia. I went for lunch and was offered a lunch menu, which I like a lot. They offer a sandwich, fries and drink for $11. Delicious and fresh. The tsastki sauce was excellent. Chicken was great. Restaurant is nice inside and prices are reasonable for what you get and the portion size is good. Review from Sarah E. BYOB is the coolest most convenient & affordable dinner concept ever! The ambiance of the place is not bad.. The food is quite authentic & tasty - if you are into Mediterranean. The mixed grill entre was definitely a good pick. Prompt service too.. You can take any type of drink with you - even open bottles & they did not even charge us for the coke we mixed our Captain Morgan in! We ordered so much food, caught a nice buzz & ended up with a $40.00 bill. Definitely made my night! Review from V'arian I. - 1 friend - 27 reviews Boca Raton, FL One of the positive of moving to South Florida has been an abundance of Greek/Middle Eastern restaurants that have great vegetarian fare which is not just tasteful but also healthy - we found one part of that at Anatolia but not necessarily the whole package. While Anatolia is actually a Turkish restaurant, its menu has quite a lot in common with other Middle eastern restaurants and had plenty of dishes that were of interest to us. Set in a strip mall, we almost missed it since the lighting up front wasn't very helpful. However, on entering we found a cheerful staff who maintained that attitude right through dinner. Not too crowded for a Friday night, it seemed mostly regulars at the tables, which was a positive sign. My wife was in the mood for some wine but we weren't handed a wine menu so we figured it was a BYOB place since there were other patrons who were enjoying a bottle. We ordered a Hot Meze variety plate and a couple of other items. The lentil soup was flavorful, especially after squeezing in the accompanying lemon and our three year old enjoyed the bread (which was a little different form of pita) as well as the falafel. We found the other items in Hot Meze plate quite appetizing as well - however, there seemed to be a little too liberal use of oil, that wouldn't necessarily meld with the healthy perception of Mediterranean food! Other than that though, we found our experience quite positive and look forward to visiting again. Review from Miriam P. OK so this is a genre of food that I am pretty hard to please in. Not only did I live in Baltimore's Greek neighborhood and was completely spoiled, but I also grew up with my sister's fiance's family from Lebanon. The Food was on the high end of good. A couple of the dishes were great. The presentation was spectacular and with the open kitchen you were assured of clean preparation conditions. I took off one star for the extremely friendly but slightly slow service and the noise level in the place. It seemed that the other patrons in the place had their hearing aides turned off causing them to yell at each other throughout their meal. One woman was so loud we swear we could hear her even while driving away. This was not my all time favorite Greek dive in b'more but it was good food. Review from virang m. Very good place... Nice veggie food options.. Decent portions and good service!!! A must go for vegetarians ... Review from Robin P. I ate here with four people the other night and was totally disappointed, all of our dinners were either missing things or were served with the wrong things. But the most offensive was that I was served almost raw chicken, the peppers were not grilled and they serve onions raw. When I called and spoke to the owner he said that was no big deal and never apologized. I strongly advise you to dine elsewhere as there are many good choices in Boca. In response to the owners comments, the menu states "sumac onion" and when I asked what that was I was told it was onion with paprika I was not told that consisted of raw onions, nor does it state that anywhere on the menu. Also when I called the owner said "What do you want me to do?" and I answered I would like to get some credit on my bill, and was told to come in and he would do that. When I called the next evening to see if he was there he got on the phone and told me he had thought about it and did not want to give me any money back as serving wrong, missing and raw food was "No big deal" . Never was I offered a chance to return for a free meal and he never apoligized. Review from M. S. You may not have guessed this but... I like Mediterranean food. Thanks to the fact that my friend wanted to surprise his fiancée by having and engagement/birthday celebration, now I have a new favorite place for hummus! Fine, you're right, I didn't get the hummus because odds are I have hummus at home. Touché reader, touché... Seriously though, I was impressed with this place because I am used to Mediterranean food, and I absolutely loved it. We had some classic appetizers that were great, but my god, when my lamb chops got to the table, I was in heaven! These were moist and perfectly grilled pieces of work. They were accompanied with... I forgot, these things were too good. I realize that grilling meat becomes a process that, if perfected, should be relatively easy to do. However, for some darn reason, restaurants (even many Middle Eastern, Greek, Mediterranean-- whatever you want to call it-- ones) screw up lamb!!! But not this place, they've perfected it, even when they are as busy as they were last Saturday night. The service was also great. A woman that looked like she was either an owner or manager passed by our table making sure we were happy and that the staff treated us well. That is something that does not happen often! As you may have read from other reviews, the drinks are B.Y.O.B! How freakin' awesome is that??!?!? You can go to your favorite retailer, buy a bottle of wine (in my case craft beers) for 1/3 the price it would be at any restaurant, and take it there!!! Last thing is the last thing. Desert! We had "kunafa", which is a very traditional Middle Eastern desert. Google it, you'll be like "dayum I wanna try this!" Well, let me put it this way; it was better than the one my mom makes! Seriously. So, my friends, those are many (but not all) of the reasons I am so happy that I was invited to go to this extraordinary place. (Thanks Sam and Dana) Review from Justin F. Cool little spot: Grabbed some hummus, stuffed eggplant, lamb, chicken skewers and grape leaves. Everything was AWESOME !!! To top it all they have B.Y.O.B so you can bring some nice stuff in. FULL BAR as well. GOOD TIMES ! Review from Susie N. Anatolia is fairly new in Boca Raton but has quickly become my favorite Middle Eastern/Mediterranean restaurant for lunch or dinner. The atmosphere is casual and attractive and they offer patio as well as dining room seating. It's a family owned and operated restaurant, and the service is as outstanding as the food, which is incredible. I particularly enjoy their fresh bread, Beyti and Lamb kabobs and the hot appetizer medley. The portions are healthy and the prices reasonable. Review from Steven S. My Nat King Cole impression: "Unremarkable. That's what you are." Yes, the place was crowded, yes the sun may have been in their eyes, and yes the dog may have eaten their homework, but there's no excuse for tasteless greasy lamb on an "open calzone," tasteless calamari and a tasteless large salad (shared) with seafood literally dumped on some romaine lettuce. Maybe we came the wrong the night or maybe the dog REALLY did eat their homework.... Good service though. Really, if you're only interested in fine service, please come here. PS Have had better Turkish food in Anatolia for $5 in a place with one table with three legs and one arm with three fingers on that hand. Review from S L. My husband and I went here last night after seeing other good reviews on Yelp and we were impressed. We arrived around 8 and didnt have a reservation so there was a 15 minute wait but they got us set up with an outside table so we could enjoy some of our wine while we waited (its BYOB- which I love). They got us set up with a table inside and as soon as a table was open by the window- they moved us there! It was nice of them to do that. I ordered lamb chops and my husband ordered the Octopus which was HUGE!!! 3 HUGE octopus tentacles. My dish was good although it was a little dry- 4 lamb chops and 2 type of rice- I think some sort of hummus or something would have been good to moisten it up, but it was still really good. Overall this place was really good. Review from Emir Y. Excellent food, excellent prices, and one of the few Turkish restaurants where they are always packed! Review from jonathan s. - 0 friends - 9 reviews Boca Raton, FL A gem of a find, friendly staff, dynamite food and portions, Mediterranean flair and dishes are top notch, very well priced, Parking not the best BYOB Review from Ferit U. Closest taste to home Review from Alicia C. Growing up in a family with Mediterranean background it can sometimes be difficult to fully enjoy this cuisine in a restaurant. With that said, my very first bite of the basic traditional chicken skewers with bulgar pilaf and a side salad, brought me right back at home. This is home-style cooking all the way. And if you're not of this culture, it feels like it was cooking from your childhood friend who invited you for dinner. Best of all its BYOB( for those of you who don't know- bring your own alcoholic beverage) without a corkage fee. Make it a group or intimate affair- your choice..... delicious. Review from lauren f. Decided on this place after reading reviews on yelp. Fist time eating Turkish food so I am not an expert but I was very happy with the entire meal from appetizers to dessert! Service and atmosphere were very nice. About This BusinessProvided by business Specialties We are a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern Restaurant with flavors from Turkey. Almost two years in business and although the economy is at it's lowest and numerous wonderful restaurants within the area, we are as busy as can be. This of course is due to, word of mouth and online viewers such as Yelpers that share their dining experience with the world. Thank you to all, that have shared their dining experience at Anatolia. Because of you, alot of meat lovers for our kebabs, seafood lovers for our infamous grilled octopus and grilled Mediterranean Sea bass, pizza lovers for our home made bread and specialty pizzas, vegetarian and vegan customers for numerous vegetable dishes such as our fire roasted stuffed egg plant, stuffed with seasonal vegetables, pine nuts and fresh herbs. Please remember, we do not serve alcoholic beverage. BYOB History Established in 2008 Growing up in a restaurant business, I thought I would never own a restaurant and have our kids go through what I went through. Restaurant becomes your life, your number priority. Your guests become the most important people in your lives. As the owners and the operators of Anatolia, we are proud to say that's where we are. In the 80's our parents had the first Turkish restaurant in Brooklyn. They felt the need to introduce family owned recipes to friends and neighbors who were so unfamiliar with Turkish Cuisine. Moving to Boca Raton FL in 2003 allowed us to appreciate the flavors of authentic, international cuisine up North. Boca Raton was missing the authenticity and the zest. We soon were looking into filling the void. After eighteen months of hard work we opened to public on September 12th, 2008. We ran out of funds, therefore could not advertise but the word of mouth became our best advertisement along with YELP and other similar sources. Look forward to serving you. Meet the Business Owner: Nuran and Nadir J. My husband Nadir and I have moved to Boca in 2003, with our two daughters and Nod's 92 year old dad. Living with my father-in-law was difficult at times but i now realize, i was making it difficult. I miss him dearly. We would sit for hours and he would share the stories he remembered so vividly. I'm grateful for the opportunity to have him. Jenna and Eren (our daughters) have learned how important it is to keep our elderly with us, as long as we can. Life was good but was missing the flavors we had up north. We decided to bring it here in Boca. It took us 18 months to open the restaurant. By the time we opened, we had run out of money and could not accessorize inside. I put together a few things from home and Debbie Frankle paintings of the dervishes ( thx Taner), covered up our walls. Three weeks before our opening, we had our third girl, Baby Deva. After an amazing grand opening (w/o ads) and a new baby, customers were bringing in more customers. Thank you all!

- Restaurants | - Nightlife | - Shopping | - Movies | - All Anatolia Categories: Restaurants Turkish Restaurants Mediterranean Turkish, Mediterranean [Edit]7600 Dr Phillips Blvd Ste 108 Orlando, FL 32819 Neighborhood: Dr. Phillips (407) 352-6766 - Hours: Mon-Thu, Sun 11 am - 10 pm Fri-Sat 11 am - 11 pm - Good for Kids: - Yes - Accepts Credit Cards: - Yes - Parking: - Private Lot - Attire: - Casual - Good for Groups: - Yes - Price Range: - $$ - Takes Reservations: - Yes - Delivery: - Yes - Take-out: - Yes - Waiter Service: - Yes - Outdoor Seating: - Yes - Wi-Fi: - Free - Good For: - Dinner - Alcohol: - Beer & Wine Only - Noise Level: - Average - Ambience: - Romantic, Classy, Casual - Has TV: - No - Caters: - Yes - Wheelchair Accessible: - Yes - Dogs Allowed: - Yes 85 reviews for Anatolia Review Highlights - "Definitely have the homemade Lavas Bread." In 9 reviews - "Both the Chicken and Adana (ground lamb) kebabs were superb..." In 5 reviews - "...all Turkish cuisine, but the Beyti Kebab was SO delicious." In 4 reviews 85 reviews in English Review from Matt A. Stopped here with the yelp coupon while on Vacation. My GF really goes nuts for the Doner Kebab at places where it is done right. And it is done PERFECTLY at this place. The Doner Kebab is so tender and flavorful and prices are pretty good for the amazing flavor. We will go back to Anatolia when we return to Florida. For Sure.Comment from mustafa m. of Anatolia 4/14/2012Hi Matt, I am glad your girlfriend notice the differences… More » Review from Tatiana B. Orlando, FL We have been here twice and wish we could go more often. Start with the lavas bread and the hummus. We usually split one plate as we get pretty filled up with the bread. Both times we have ordered the beef kebab. It is so moist and tender and perfectly seasoned. And the rice it comes with is soooooo good. I asked once what was in it but they just said it was a mix of different grains. It's the perfect rice! Their house red wine is the perfect balance to your meal. Review from Jonathan F. - 19 friends - 17 reviews Windermere, FL Nice alternative but food is average, nothing stands out from a culinary standpoint. The atmosphere is nice, on select occasions they have live music Review from Marco M. Food was excellent! Had the appetizer platter: Hummus, Tzaziki, Stuffed Grape Leaves, Feta and Babaganoush. Lavas bread (made fresh, in-house). Main was ground lamb wrapped in flat bread with a yogurt sauce and a spicy garlic and tomato sauce. Rest of the table had the Döner kebab. No leftovers! Review from Deb E. Prepare to be wowed by this fantastic Mediterranean dining experience! On this night my party of four ordered the following: Appetizers: Hummus, Babaghanoush, Tabouli, and Haydari (Thick cream of yogurt mixed with walnuts, spinach, garlic and garnished with fresh dill.) Entrees: Marinated Grilled Baby Lamb Chops, Mixed Grill, and Chicken Adana To accompany the appetizers, we also ordered Lavas, an enormous puff of bread which is delivered straight to the table warm from the oven. I've eaten a lot of hummus in my day, but the silken texture of Anatolia's hummus is still in my mouth! Eaten together, the four appetizers were a fantastic complement to each other. My order of marinated baby lamb chops -- four small, thin, tender chops -- were well-seasoned and grilled perfectly to order: medium rare. Entrees are served with delicious rice pilaf, a small red potato, and wonderful grilled veggies: mushrooms, an onion wedge, a chunk of zuchinni, and peppers. The other diners were very happy with their choice of entrees, and both the mixed grill and chicken adana looked & smelled delicious. Dessert was offered, but because appetizer & entree portions were so generous, no one in our party had room for it. Service: Our waiter was attentive -- never far out of earshot, yet not intrusive. Our appetizers were delivered to the table very quickly after ordering and our entrees were served hot -- straight off the grill. Ambiance: Because it was a gorgeous evening, we chose to dine outdoors -- not much of an experience, given that the parking lot of The Marketplace strip mall in Dr. Phillips is just yards away. But there was a musician playing live dinner music on a keyboard, adding to the experience. Price range: Moderate/moderately expensive. At $32.00, my baby lamb chops were the most expensive entree on the menu, however, the cost of my dinner was offset by a Yelp free appetizer check-in offer. The mixed grill was $21/per person (min. 2 people), and the chicken adana was $16.50. One member of our party attempted to order a mixed drink, but was gently advised that the restaurant serves only beer & wine. To accompany my meal, I ordered a nice glass of CA chardonnay, priced at $6. My companions had soft drinks. This was my third visit to Anatolia, but it won't be my last! Review from Blaise B. Great food! I got the shamarma and it was fantastic. Sunday lunch wrap specials are great! Review from Nazan Y. Went based on a yelp review after a long day at Universal Studios. We have 4 young kids, one with a food allergy, so I was a little nervous. However, I don't care for chain restaurants, and turkish food tends to be simply prepared and delicious, so I decided to give it a shot. I'd definitely go back - we ordered calimari, 2 kebab dishes (gyro meat and swordfish), and lamb stew. The wait staff were sensitive to our son's allergies, and everything was absolutely fantastic (especially the swordfish). You who eat at sit-down chains like Ch*li's or whatever while on vacation should be ashamed. Give this a try! Review from Elizabeth G. - 0 friends - 2 reviews College Park, MD The food was great. And the service was superb! I went with my parents on Friday night around 6, and we were all extremely happy that we decided to go there. We started out with dolma (grape leaves) and babagounosh. I then had the kofta kabobs (ground lamb). The Turkish seasoning in the meat was very good. On the side were some lightly grilled vegetables. We ended the meal with some Turkish tea and this amazing goat cheese desert. My mouth's watering just remembering it. Our waiter was superb. He was attentive without being lurking/irritating. We ate out on the patio, and the atmosphere out there was very pleasant. They had some live music outside - a violin and keyboard. It wasn't too loud, so it was good background ambiance. Review from E A. While in Orlando on vacation we wanted to check out the local flavor, and were walking by, when we noticed the outdoor seating. We love Mediterranean. But ................there was only a table and space outside for 3..... The waiter said no problem. He shifted things around and we sat. It was beautiful outside. And perhaps that is part of the reason we had such a delightful time. Our waiter was GOKHAN! What a character. He earned his tip. We started off with tea. The tea is okay, but the glass it comes in is totally middle eastern style. My friend wanted to take a full set home, but controlled herself. We had the lava bread and the falafel plate that came with hummus. They serve you olives in oil (very good) and some cabbage. A very good start. Then we had the Shwarma. Basically gyro meat with vegetables. But the flavor was great.... I cannot tell you what our friends had.... A lamb dish? We ended it off with Turkish Coffee for them...... ohmygawd! And regular for me...... and a small piece of delicious baklava for all. Review from Erik S. In the same shopping area as World of Beer my favorite drinking hole. They have live music on the weekends I believe and a nice little patio area for outside dining. While it's been awhile since I went there, I know that we enjoyed it thoroughly. Our server was attentive, the food was good, and the music was a nice touch. Prices were a little high, but that's expected in Dr. Phillips. I would definitely come back again Review from Edward H. Simply amazing! Went so far as to make a special plate of shrimp and veggies for my 2 year old. A gem in Orlando! The gyro was amazing! Review from Mark H. Hummus was really good as were the swordfish kabobs. Best Turkish Fox I've had in ages. Review from Jim L. Tasty food, but a bit pricey for the amount of food you get. Entree portions are not huge by any means but just enough if you order apps and bread. We had 2 orders of the bread (I forget what is was called but it's puffy). We also had the 2 cold app combo with the babaghanoush and tabouli. I also used the yelp checkin coupon to get the hummus which was delicious. The weird thing is that none of the apps came with any pita bread or anything to dip, so you have to order that puffy bread. Also, they charge for the yogurt sauce. So I love the taste of the food but not portion size and prices. Review from Michelle R. Brooklyn, NY The food here is good, but nothing that really wowed me. Prices are a little expensive for what you get. Fried calamari was the best I've had in a while, and moussaka was cheesy goodness. Review from Matthew T. - 34 friends - 159 reviews Bradenton, FL I don't give many 5 stars and I almost never give one based on a single visit, but I have to for Anatolia. I was in Orlando but I did not want something for tourists or affiliated with the mouse kingdom, so I looked on yelp for interesting things and Anatolia was the winner. Loved being able to make the reservation through yelp as well. Was greeted by the host in this smallish restaurant with plenty of seating outside. The smell of wonderful things meets you at the door as well. The waitress, who seemed related to the host, was pleasant helpful and knew her job. She answered our questions about wine and we tried one of the turkish wines, I now want a case of it. Each table is given some pickled cabbage and olives that were lovely and a nice touch. We started with the Lava bread. This was amazing, think like a giant bubble of warm and wonderful bread. It was great. We got the mixed grill, different kababs, lamb chops, chicken, the works. This was recomend by the waitress when we told her it was our first time but were familiar with the style of food. Each thing was cooked perfectly, seasoned perfectly, tender and amazing. Nearly transcendental and that is what I usually need in order to give 5 stars. The grilled vegetables and the bhulger wheat side dish was also spot on. Makes me want to make the drive over to orlando this weekend just to have those lamb chops again. But I also want to explore the other items. Review from Stacy T. This has become by far my favorite place to eat. The flavor profile is clean and simple yet amazing. Every time I have guests in town, this is where I bring them. They are consistently good. I have been there over 20x and have yet to have something go wrong. The price is fair - I recommend the Sampler when dining with 3 or more. $21 each and a ton to take home. All of the appetizers are amazing but the Calamari is my favorite. The Lava bread (my nephew's favorite) is light and fresh and perfect for those avoiding preservatives, etc. Bulgar, rice, fresh veggies and an absolutely swept away atmosphere which makes you forget you are on Dr. Phillips. Anatolia, you had me at Mousakka! Review from Joyce H. Went there during a vacation to Orlando, bought the yelp deal but didn't realize it's not valid for Fridays. Our waiter and the manager was nice enough to let us use the deal after explaining we were leaving town the next day. Very good service and ambiance. Food was good, although I felt like it's more like a Turkey fusion place than an authentic Turkey restaurant. There's also live music at the outside seating area. Review from Sheldon F. - 10 friends - 11 reviews Tampa, FL In a word ... WOW! The word average do not cross my mind at ANY point of my experience here. From the appeasers right through dinner and dessert. Being raised in the Middle east and Europe, I can tell you that this is just about as good as it can get. I ate till i couldn't eat any more and as i got in my car to drive away, All i could think about was more of this delicious food. The waiter was very friendly and informative. Even took the time to warn us about not finishing all the appetizer as there was a lot coming on the mixed platter we ordered. He was not kidding! All in all, this is one hidden jewel in Orlando which i will make a point to visit every chance i get. Review from Simon T. Can't overstate how excellent the meats were. First class lamb chops. Gyro meat was absolutely the best I've had. Also excellent bread and hummus. Beautiful decor and atmosphere, easily overlooked in a little mall. Extra bonus points for NO TELEVISIONS... hooray! Review from JEWELe M. WoW! I never had Mediterranean food like this! The puffy larvas bread, the hummus plate, the feta cheese plate, and the Mediterranean Combo plate to share amongst 5 people.... The appetizers were delicious and for some reason the apps gave me the anticipation for the main course: the Mediterranean Combo, which was full of different meats! My favorite was the lamb because it was so tender that the meat fell off the bone....into my tummy! To end the fabulous dinner, we have Turkish coffee, Turkish "creme brulee", and baklava! Best Turkish food I had in awhile! So glad we came here to celebrate my brother's birthday! Happy belated @droolius! ;D Review from Carla S. Oh, Anatolia, how I wish I could take you back to Austin, TX with me. Best meal I have had ALL year!!! Walking to the restaurant being serenaded by the beautiful, live music on the patio put me instantly in a great mood. The staff was all very personable and inviting. I just felt happy being here. This is all before anything food-related occurred!!! Ohhhhhhh, THE FOOD!!!!!!!!!! Best Calamari I have ever had in the United States. PERIOD!!! This is how you prepare calamari. If you have not won an award for it, it's criminal!! Next I had the DONER/GYRO/SHWARMA with YOGURT Huge portion that I could have easily shared with someone. I loved the grilled vegetables. So simple, yet so satisfying. Everything was perfection. I cannot wait for my next trip to Orlando because I will DEFINITELY return. Thanks for an awesome evening!! :) Listed in: Don't Mind If I Do Review from Nancy C. Many times since I moved to the area, I wondered if I would ever find a non-chain restaurant, delicious, and authentic enough to make me NOT miss Texas. In terms of Turkish food, I found my jackpot. The outside seating was great, right next to the musicians who really set the tone. Start off with appetizers and some lavas to dip. This is what I love about eastern european food, the laziness and fun of snacking. The stand out dip was the red caviar. A gyro for over $15 are you kidding? But the portion is huge, it lasted me 3 meals. I ask for pita bread to wrap the meat. Also, the rice these meals are served with is so flavorful and wonderful heated up too. The beyti kebab was flavorful, but not my favorite because I didn't like the bite size cuts. The mousaka is delicious for a few bites, it is a huge portion. The sea bass is a good option if you are looking for a healthy alternative. Review from Adam K. I actually feel bad giving this one three stars as the wait staff was very nice, the ambiance great (music outside), they turned on the heat lamps for us (winter in Florida). And I am sure there are other great things on the menu...but what I had was solidly three stars. I started with the lava bread, which is really neat when it comes out all puffed up. You poke it and the steam comes out. Has sides of pickled cabbage and some very good olives in olive oil. Not the greatest bread ever but it was good. Then I had the zucchini fritter things, which were okay. Not great, a little soggy in the middle, but acceptable. Not a ton of flavor. Then I had the doner which was actually flavored well, and cooked well. My only complaints were that it had a bunch of fatty pieces in it...fine, not a huge deal to pick through that. It came with roasted vegetables which were not roasted. They had char marks on them but were only partially cooked. Which for vegetables isn't a huge problem but I couldn't eat the onion. Tried to take a bite and it was like woah, raw onion. The rice was decently flavorful and well cooked. The portions were relatively large for dinner which is a plus. I also finished with some turkish tea, which to me tastes just like regular ceylon tea you might get anywhere else. Maybe I was missing something. It was fine. The glass they served it in was neat. And I sipped it and listened to some music. Not bad. Too stuffed for baklava which looked good. I would return to try some other dishes. I probably just ordered porly. Review from Lailuck I. - 0 friends - 1 review Orlando, FL My friend and I went there for dinner and the service was Outstanding! We ordered the pick two appetizers with hummus and baba ganoush and ofcourse the Lava bread!! The lavas was Amazing!!! We shared the mixed grill which was also very Tasty!! Perfect amount of food for two and even three people! Very pleased with everything will definitely go back again! Review from Lenore F. I heart this place like it is nobody's business and cannot WAIT to go again. I have been looking for a great Turkish restaurant for ages now, and Anatolia does not disappoint at all. The hummus is perfect, as is the doner kebab platter and the kofte kebab wrap. The housemade lavas bread is perfect with the hummus and the pickled cabbage. I haven't tried much here, yet, but I've loved everything that I've tried and cannot wait to go again. The decor is also elegant and unassuming, and is in a perfect spot (I've said perfect a lot, I know) in its restaurant row shopping plaza. Review from Barbie P. I've been to Anatolia about 5 times now. This was my first time bringing our 13 year old and 5 year old. They both loved it too. We took advantage of a Yelp coupon, and I'm glad we did! (The marketing department here is on the ball...I see ads and coupons in a varitey of places. Coupons suck me in!). I had forgotten how much I like this place!! The kids loved it and you have to get the Lavash with hummus to start. Always a hit. I had the "casserole" dish this time which I really loved and would get again, since I'm not a kabob fan. We LOVE dining outdoors and it is good to see that they have expanded their outdoor dining (the business next door is not open in the evening, so they are now in front of their storefront as well). We usually eat around 6, and by 7:15 when we were done most of the outdoor seating was filled. I'm glad to see this place is staying busy! We will be back! Review from Eyal O. The short version: Great food. Fantastic service. Longer version: Was in Orlando for a conference and rented a car for 48 hours. Found this place on Yelp and decided to check it out based on the great reviews. Had the Ezme Salatasi with lavas bread followed by Adana Kebab. The salad was excellent, the Adana very good. Used my Yelp coupon and ended up being under the $25 limit so ordered Baklava for dessert - seriously the best baklava I have ever had. Totally stuffed and satisfied after that lunch. In fact, it was so good that I came back the next day for another lunch. This time I had the shawarma. This was not as well done as the Adana from the prior day (lost one star for it from the original 5 star review). Maybe I'm biased as an Israeli but I'm more used to the turkey form of the meal than the beef one. This one was missing some seasoning that I'm accustomed to. Still a very good meal and I got the ezme salatasi again which did not disappoint at all. Review from Richard N. San Jose, CA When Visiting Orlando - Find Anatolia..... Anatolia's is the type of restaurant you visit and say "damn...I wish they had one of these in my area". I'm sure we actually do have such a place with great Mediterranean food ( heavy on the Middle Eastern flavors ) and a nice cafe atmosphere in San Jose, but I just haven't found it yet. On a recent vacation to theme parks in Orlando with another couple, we spent 6 nights at the Crown Plaza in the southwest part of the city...about 5 minutes from Universal Studios and 20 minutes from DisneyWorld. The main street nearby...Sand Lake Road...seemed to have more attractive non-mass chain restaurants in a 1 mile strip than any similar piece of property I remember viewing. One dinner was at TooJay's, a really good "deli", which raised the question "why can't one of these survive in Silicon Valley?" But that's another story. The first night, we walked by Anatolia on our way to TooJay's and said "we can't miss any place which smells that good". Sure enough, we tried Anatolia and it was so good we went again just 2 nights later. And both times...on a Tuesday and Thursday no less...the restaurant was buzzing with customers. This review really isn't for people who live in Orlando because they probably know it already. Instead, it's mainly for visitors who are suddenly faced with choosing a restaurant from a million choices. Anatolia is part of small shopping center in an upscale area near the intersection of Sand Lake Road and Dr. Phillips Blvd. It's around the corner from a Morton's Steakhouse and set among a variety of ethnic neighborhood restaurants, like TooJay's. There are 15-20 tables for 4 inside with room for another 20 people outside, so the feeling is that of a cafe. The menu at Anatolia is not large, but there's something for even a picky eater. You can literally make a meal with a bunch of appetizers and salads or go the traditional route with an entree and smaller dish. In all honesty, I've got the menu on my screen as I write this review and the drool from both my mouth and mind is causing sparks to fly from the keyboard! Everything we tried in our 2 dinner tour was very good or great. Appetizers included babagannus, eggplant, hummus, sigara boregi ( phylo dough with feta cheese and herbs ), falafel and calamari ( among the best ever ). Entrees were chicken adana, swordfish kabab, beef saute, mousaka and vegetable saute. Each meal was accompanied by hot and soft "puffy" bread called Lavas which was excellent for dipping, especially the babagannus, eggplant and hummus. One night, we added 2 orders of a nice rice pudding. The food looked, smelled and tasted like a slice of Mediterranean heaven. The Wine List was of reasonable size, selection and cost. Here in California, we're exposed ( in a tasteful way ) to wines everyday, but the list at Anatolia was similar in scope and price to most places in San Jose. We tried a zinfandel from Rosenblum for $26 the first night and went back for more the 2nd night. Service was friendly and helpful which is nice when the menu seems like a foreign language. They weren't overly-solicitous, but warm and knowledgeable. And the bathrooms were fairly modern and clean! One of the best aspects of Anatolia is the value. Some previous reviews on Yelp described the prices as "high". It's all relative. We ate big amounts of great food both nights and paid $55-60 per couple before tax and tip. Bottom line: Move Anatolia to San Jose. Pros: What's not to like? Cons: It's in Florida and we live in California Ratings: Overall: 5 Food Quality: 5 Food Quantity: 5 Menu: 5 Wine List: 4 Service: 4 Atmosphere: 5 Bathrooms: 4 Listed in: Away From San Jose -… Review from Dianna C. Ahh Anatolia...possibly one of my favorite places in town! My mom and I decided to have lunch at Anatolia this past Sunday. We both have been there several times, so we have our favorites and we don't even need a menu anymore, we know what to order as soon as we park our butts. The restaurant is relatively small, they have a semi open kitchen, and they offer indoor and outdoor seating. We generally prefer sitting outside, but all of the tables were occupied. When we went inside one of the waitresses recognized me from the last couple of times I was there and she greeted me in a very kind way, complimenting me on my dress and letting us choose where to seat. She also remembered I ordered an iced tea last time and she asked if I wanted the same. When she returned with our beverages we proceed with our appetizer order: Lavash bread (the big fluffy delicious hollow bread), hummus, Tamara (caviar pate), and their amazingggg white bean salad. For our entrees I ordered the Moussaka and my mom got the Saute Shrimp. Everything was absolutely amazing, by the time we were done with our appetizers we were completely full and took our entrees to go. Later on, when we had the entrees for dinner at home we were please with our dishes. We have had both dishes before in the past and it tasted just as delicious. I look forward to returning and having another great meal! Review from Dirk F. Upscale small restaurant w fine service. Did I order a Diet Kebab? The LAMB SHISH KEBAB for lunch had only 4 cubes, it twas tasty but there should be more lamb cubes. The LAVAS (chefs bread) w hummus is delicious w the red pepper, too much oil on parts of the bread though. The sauted beef was eatable, nothing special about it, could have been better seasoned and side veggies were dry. The lamb gyro was the highlight of the meals I had,it it still didn't compare in taste Mediterranean Deli gyros which is the standard. Nice ambiance but dishes are mediocre. Review from Iftikhar K. - 6 friends - 130 reviews Round Rock, TX Probably our favorite meal from our Orlando trip. Middle Eastern food is our favorite choice for eating out, so to find a place that rises to the top of that list after eating at literally dozens of other restaurants is something special. This place is that good. Our GPS had some trouble finding the place. Its less then 15 minutes from Disney World and International Drive. Located in a strip mall, the interior is small but classy. We had the place practically to ourself when we visited in early February. Here is what we ordered Lahmachun - don't see this on the dinner menu, but Rabia asked for it and they made it. Similar to a light pizza, this dish was outstanding. I almost ordered one to take home! Doner Kebab - Melted in my mouth, the meat was that juicy and well cooked. Gyros - Not the fast food style and I like fast food gyro. This was something special. Next time I go to Orlando, I'm going to Anatolia! Review from Sophia L. Absolutely loved the food there. We went there for lunch on a late Saturday morning. The outside patio is very nice and relaxing (the weather was perfect). We had 3 lunch special wraps and Lavas (bread). DONER/GYRO/SHWARMA (Thinly sliced strips of tastefully seasoned lamb and beed wrap cooked on rotating skewer) is the best wrap of the three with flavorful lamb taste but not gamy at all. The Chicken wrap was also very good with well seasoned potatoes inside. The beef wrap did not stand out compared to the other two. LAVAS (Chef's special bread, fresh cooked in our own owen) is definitely recommanded. Their olive oil dip (olive oil mixed with olives and herbs) goes perfectly with the bread. Hummus is very flavorful comparing to most of the hummus I've had. Haydari (Thick cream of yogurt mixed with walnuts, spinach, garlic and garnished with fresh dill) is totally addictive. BABAGANNUS (Chargrilled eggplant mashed with fresh herbs, spices and tahini) is my favorite of all three dips. The service was also very good. I will definitely go there again if I ever go back to Orlando! Review from Clara S. Tasty and delicious we really had a great meal. We missed the whole ambiance of the high back leather chairs and quaint atmosphere though. They just had plain old basic tables. The place was hopping and there were tables outside and in. Inside the tables were pretty close together and they were full. We had to wait about 10 minutes to be seated. The service was friendly and the meal was pretty darn decent. I don't know if I will go out of my way to make it back there any time soon considering there are soo many restaurants to frequent in the area that I would prefer to try instead. That said, if you are looking for a lovely Turkish meal this will suit your needs! Review from Brad K. Excellent dining experience ! Ended up doing a yelp search for greek. This placed turned up so we decided to give it a try. My friend from Jordan called my cell while we were there, told him where we were, he said oh you picked an excellent place. Uploaded some pics to yelp. We would go here again !! A little pricey, but the quality was worth the price. Review from Chris I. Excellent doner and babaganoush. Very courteous waiter. Heaters on outdoor tables. Review from Rhea P. I love the decor, very classy with warm lights. The service. . .well. . . We came kinda late, so it seemed as if everyone was preoccupied with leaving basically. Even so, there was live music with instruments I have not seen before, which was definitely a plus. So, we only came for dessert and Turkish coffee. The pistachio baklava was delish, although the servings were very small. I have had Turkish coffee before so knew what to expect. Not like what Americas are used to basically. Very small cups and not sweet at all. Very different taste, however I enjoyed it simply because the cups were super cute and it made my tummy feel really great! Review from Mary B. We stopped in without a reservation the night before Thanksgiving with a groupon in hand. This place has a very comfortable and welcoming atmosphere and a feeling of being a neighborhood place. We tried a variety of dishes - including the pizza, the lavas, zucchini pancake, hummus, and soup. The pizza with meat and the pancakes were the best dishes. Overall, the food was average. But, the service was wonderful! The waiter was professional. What impressed us the most was that he noticed that my husband did not finish his soup (a yogurt lentil). He asked if he did not like it, and after a bit of beating around the bush, he admitted that he did not like the soup. The waiter insisted that he try the other soup - which he enjoyed very much. The attentive and personal service made it a pleasant night out. My husband enjoyed the Turkish beer too! This added to the feeling of an authentic experience. The portions were large and we enjoyed the leftover pizza the next day! Review from Penelope P. New York, NY Great service! Beautiful, fresh food. Must, must, must have the Baklava! Even if you're stuffed, take some home. It's the best I've had in forever. Review from Uyen D. Anatolia was delicious! My bf and I wanted to go and have a nice dinner for NYE and wanted to try something different and I mentioned how I always see Anatolia. So we decided to go and the lavas bread was so yummy! We also decided to get the mix grill for two and everything on that plate was delicious! The lamb chop and the chicken were my favs. I can't wait to go back :) Review from Leigh N. This is easily one of my favorite restaurants in the Orlando area. I had never had Turkish food before coming here when they first opened, but I've been back many times. The food is phenomenal, the service is excellent and the prices reasonable. The only reason I can't give this place a 5 is only due to the location and the crowded atmosphere of the restaurant. Its very loud and if you sit outside your view is a parking lot with a lot of traffic driving by. Other than that, I would recommend this restaurant to anyone looking for authentic fresh Turkish cuisine, or just something outside of the ordinary food experience.

Return to Transcripts main page CNN NEWSROOM Seven Families Trapped in New York Mountains; Scarred by Gadhafi's Family; Irene Deluge Hits Vermont Aired August 28, 2011 - 23:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: roads, in Rhode Island. Kate Bolduan, CNN, Providence, Rhode Island. MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: A quaint, New England Streets suddenly turned into muddy thorax. This is Marvin Bill (ph) at a tiny village at the Catskill, a few hours north of New York City. And this is the legacy of what was tropical storm Irene, once Hurricane Irene all across the northeast U.S. tonight. Cars are no match for these raging waters. Take a look at this Sudan, battered around like driftwood. Fortunately, no one was in that vehicle. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Whoa. Get out of here! Get out of here! Grab the mic. (END VIDEO CLIP) SAVIDGE: A reporter from our affiliate WCBS was covering Irene's arrival at Asbury Park, New Jersey when a large wave nearly swept her off her feet. She and her crew thought they were far enough away from the water but it turns out, they were wrong. And on Long Island, large sand berms were piled up to protect the life guard station and it worked, for a while. But waves one of the ends smashed the building into the pier. Good evening. I'm Martin Savidge. Don Lemon is off tonight. Irene is not longer a tropical storm. It made landfall again this morning in New York City as a category one hurricane. From there it's made a nonstop march north as a tropical storm sweeping through New England with high winds and heavy rain. Right now, what's left it by rain is crossing into Canada. It's impact has been deep in widespread and it will not soon be forgotten. At least 19 people lost their lives from Florida to New England. Power is out to about four million homes and businesses. And it could be days before the lights are turn back on. Along the East Coast, many people are thankful that Irene didn't live up to expectations. But in Vermont, well it appears the opposite is happening. People were caught off guard by the onslaught of flooding. The state ordered no early mandatory evacuations. But at this hour, the capital city Montpelier is evacuated. Many small towns are submerged. Rescue teams are scrambling to safety, but it looks like the worst may have happened with the report of a woman missing. A lot of action is now happening in Brattleboro, Vermont. And that is where CNN's Gary Tuchman is. GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martin, for generations up until yesterday, children would swim in here. This is the Whetstone Brook. It was totally placid, a thin little creek where children have played for much of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st century. But now, there are hundreds of creeks in Brook is just like this. This is no longer the Whetstone Brook. This is the Whetstone rapids. The power of the water, the power of Irene here in Vermont has turned brooks and creeks into rapids. It looks like a river. It looks like what you would see at the Grand Canyon. It looks like what you would see at Niagara Falls. But it's done is this. This is an office building at Art Studios and Yugo (ph) Studios. Three stories and basically, the power of the water exploded this brook three times the weight of what it was before. And the building is now precariously about to fall into this brook. We talked to one of the owners inside this building, an artist with an office on the top floor, third window from the right. He wanted to go into recover his belongings. We strongly advised him that would not be a good idea and indeed five minutes ago we heard a boom. Part of the building appears to have collapsed. But what they're dealing with right now in Vermont, officials are trying to find out how many people might be missing. We do know that one woman is missing and presumed dead when she apparently fell into another brook like just this here in the state. High tide is expected to occur in Northern Vermont about three hours from now in the capital of Montpelier. There is a lot of concern in Montpelier that there's going to be immense flooding in the capitol city. The last time they had a hurricane or tropical storm that affected this area was all the way back in 1938, 73 years ago. They are not used to it here. And these brooks, these -- creeks, we're not afoot to handle all this water. And you could see the results of this, a raging rapids that has left this building about a collapse in the water. Vermont did not expect to be affected like this by Irene. Martin, back to you. SAVIDGE: Gary, any idea how long they will be sort of under the gun so to speak from the water? TUCHMAN: Martin, sorry, I couldn't hear that question. Say that one more time? SAVIDGE: How long do you think it is that the state will continue to be threatened by the high water? TUCHMAN: Oh, how long they're expecting to threaten by the high water. That's a very good question. No one is able to answer it because that because this has never happened in this particular area in Brattleboro in Southern Vermont. So, we have talked to old timers who lived here a long time. They have never seen it, they don't know how long it will last. What we do know Martin, is earlier in the day where I'm standing, this was covered with water. That water has receded. But you still have raging rapids there and what's really important, this isn't the only building that's near this brook. There are other buildings here, too. So, there's a lot of neighbors who are very scared for their houses too could be affected by the immense power of this water raging down this brook. SAVIDGE: Gary Tuchman in Brattleboro, Vermont tonight for us. Thank you very much. All right. Let's get the latest on what used to be Irene is now. And for that, we'll turn to Alexandra Steele in the Hurricane Headquarters. ALEXANDRA STEELE, AMS METEOROLOGIST: All right. Well, tropical storm Irene has the fait accompli, it's done the last advisory, has now been written on it. It's the elongated center has lost its tropical characteristics. So, that is the end. But it's kind of moot in some regard because we are seeing 50 miles per hour wind gusts in Albany in New York. But here's what we're seeing. You can see it's now zipping to the north-northeast at 26 miles per hour. So, it is moving but once again, it is no longer tropical storm Irene. Again, it has lost its tropical characteristics and it will quickly get out of the picture. So, what is next? What is next is this flooding. And, you know, you just heard Gary talking about it. And really I think the calling card of what was tropical storm Irene will be flooding, and a couple different fronts. Now there is flash flooding and there's river flooding. And we have warnings for both. Flash flooding really what Gary is saying out there, it's heavy rain, a short period of time happens in creek and streams and it's pre-short-lived. Now, river flooding, and you can see all these greens are river flooding. Longer to develop and it's also a longer duration to recede. So, that's kind of the scenario with that. So, most certainly, it really seems like river flooding and flash flooding will be the calling card of this. But, as it work toward tomorrow, what are we going to see? How about some sunshine. So, certainly great news for Vermont and so many people here until they're gone. Again, all the travel getting back on track here in the northeast. Sunny skies from the Ohio Valley to the mid-Atlantic to the southeast. Again, also what was tropical storm Irene is kind of dancing with the surface cold front and you can see that. So, again, losing its tropical characteristics. Here in the southeast, sunny and warm. West coast, sunny skies as well. So, finally a bright sunny day tomorrow as we say good-bye to what was tropical storm Irene. But certainly, the problems most certainly remain and will for weeks. I mean, record power outages in places that had never seen such numbers. So, it really will be quite some time. SAVIDGE: Thanks, Alexandra. We'll talk to you again with the travel forecast, right? STEELE: Yes. SAVIDGE: OK. Thanks very much. New Jersey caught some of the absolute worth of it from Irene. That storm has moved on but intense flooding is still the major concern, not just along the coast but inland as well. Our Poppy Harlow is standing by in Millburn, New Jersey, tonight. Poppy, what's it look like at this hour? POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT: Well, finally, it's a little quite, we are on the Main Street in Millburn. All the residents all day and all the business owners were here because it looks like everything, one in these businesses on Main Street got flooded. Some of them got flooded incredibly badly. You can maybe hear this bell going off. That has been going off since we got here eight hours ago. It was obviously set off by Irene and it won't stop. What happened here is there is a river that runs right through this town. And it crested and it just flew right on over and washed right into these businesses and, you know, they are used to this. They were flooded very badly back in '99 when we had Hurricane Floyd. And the governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie said, look, what this state is going through is that a lot of the rivers are either at record levels or near record levels. There was a lot of rain here for the last two weeks, so the ground was already soaked with water. And then this just pushed it right over the edge. Take a look at this business, this local restaurant here. Look inside. It's been devastated by Irene and by all that flooding. We got a chance to go inside with Dana the owner earlier this evening to get a real sense of just the damage that has been done by Irene. Take a listen to what he told us. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) We're going to see the basement. If we can look at the floor here, it's full of mud. You got a log of sewage, grass and leaves that's flowing to this restaurant. This stuff can be -- go ahead and take us there, can be cleaned up but what Dana was telling me earlier, it's going to take about a month. Then the big concern here is that oftentimes flood insurance doesn't cover basements. Can you imagine that? Wait until you see this basement. You'll see what we're talking about. All right. Look down here. Dana, how many feet down does that go? DANA CROWE, RESTAURANT OWNER: Well, that's about 10, 11 feet. HARLOW: So, we got 10, 11 feet of water in there. CROWE: It's right up to the ceiling, yes. All the office, all of the walks-in, all of food is gone. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: And I wish Martin that I could say that this was the only restaurant or business that happened to. He is not alone at all in this. The bagel shop right down there, just in there, the basement is full. Ten, 11, 12 feet of water in that basement. Same story down the road here, and it's not just in these businesses. It's in a lot of homes here in Millburn, New Jersey. They are dealing with it. And you know, the firemen and women go to pump out the residences before they can come and help these businesses. So, you've got the business owners here are just waiting, and waiting and waiting to see what happens. The other big problem here they've been talking to folks from here all night long is the power, the power is out. And a number of these homes, the businesses have power. The homes do not have power. Residents are telling me. I couldn't believe it, that they are told by the PSEG, their power provider that they are likely not going to get the power turn back on until next Sunday, that's a week from now or next Monday, September 4rth or 5th. That's a long time to go without hot water, without any electricity for a lot of folks in here. Irene has certainly left her mark for a long time. SAVIDGE: Yes, Poppy Harlow, thank you very much. Reporting to us from Millburn, New Jersey. In Pennsylvania, officials there are blaming Irene for the deaths of at least four people. And now that the winds and the rains have passed the waters are rising. Residents describe shoulder high water in the streets of Philadelphia where the mayor lifted the state of emergency around noon. Fifty miles to the northwest in the Lehigh Valley. One of our iReporters came across this small lake at the intersection of Venter Valley Parkway and route 309. And then even further north in the Poconos, another iReporter took video of a stream that drastically broke its banks. Heavy rains of the Poconos had already saturated the ground. That was true in much of the northeast increasing the flooding. Coming up next, and aerial tour of the storm damage in North Carolina's outer banks where about 2500 people tonight are cut off from the mainland. And then later, a disturbing story out of Libya that reveals some cruelties by Moammar Gadhafi's family. That's a CNN exclusive. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: And that is Margaretville, New York, it's a small village in the Catskills. And again, Irene is the culprit. As that storm rumbles through New England and into Canada, people on the Mid- Atlantic States are trying to clean up the mess Irene left behind. Our Chris Lawrence reports from Chesapeake Beach, Maryland. CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is amazing what a difference a day makes. Saturday night into Sunday morning, we were getting knocked around by some pretty fierce winds for a while. We were watching the water raise several feet watching the waves just crash against some the shore. And there was a real worry about intense flooding here. A lot of the homes here in Chesapeake, Beach are built up on a cliff. And there was a worry that if so much water rushed in it one time, it could have roll the soil and really cause some damage to those homes. Overall, people here fared better than they initially thought. There was one death in Maryland where the wind collapsed a chimney onto a woman's home and killed her. But we also spoke with several people who had very close calls and came out OK, including one man who was in his home and a tree literally fell right on top of this home. The only thing that save was the fact that the power had gone out just a couple of hours before. And he was so bored that he went downstairs to do a crossword puzzle and that ultimately took him out of the line of that tree falling on his house. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PAT HOLSON, HURRICANE SURVIVOR: They say things come in threes. We had the earthquake Tuesday, this and now God knows what else. Hopefully nothing else will happen. But God, just helped me and that I wasn't in that room. Because I would have been killed. (END VIDEO CLIP) LAWRENCE: So again, some very close calls but people here are still dealing with a lot of downed trees, power lines. Crews are trying to get those cleared out. And 1. -- about 800,000 people in Maryland were without power, so getting that restored will be priority number one for a lot of the crews here. Chris Lawrence, CNN, Chesapeake Beach, Maryland. SAVIDGE: In North Carolina's outer banks, Irene has washed out the main highway in Hatteras Island in not just one place but several, cutting off some 2,500 people from the mainland. Our Brian Todd with the National Guard who, well, he did an aerial tour, we then we'll see how bad the damage is, and he joins us from Kinston, North Carolina tonight, Brian. BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Martin, we did that aerial tour and then we landed on Hatteras Island. Some exclusive access that we got from the National Guard because the only way in is by chopper right now. We went into -- helicopters, did the aerial tour that you talked about, saw the damage firsthand. Then landed and surveyed it from the ground. And it is pretty compelling to watch. I mean, you've got this Highway 12 that you just mentioned. This is the key artery connecting Hatteras Island to the Outer Banks Islands just north of it. From those other islands, the causeways go to the mainland. So, when this part of Highway 12 was destroyed, that meant the 2,500 people on Hatteras Island were stranded and they remain stranded right now. Twenty five hundred who ignored the mandatory evacuation order and stayed on Hatteras Island. And now they are cut off from the rest of the world. That section of Highway 12 was really amazing to look at. We have some footage. And you see that the road there was not only kind of washed out by the storm surge but it looked like it was hit by an earthquake as well. The road collapsed. They got chopped to pieces. They're down power lines over it. And now the ocean is flowing right over. There are ocean currents just going right over it into Pamlico Sound just to the west. So, you've got that to deal with. There are flooded roads on Hatteras Island. We saw a one older house that we were told was a very, very nice house that was not only hit by the storm but then it burned, caught on fire and it burned to the ground. So, some significant damage on Hatteras Island and now the people there, 2500 of them are isolated at least temporarily until they can get some ferry service in, we think that's going to begin on Monday -- Martin. SAVIDGE: How long do you think it's going to take to repair that road? TODD: You know, some of the folks there say that there -- well, they say there have been breaches on the road before. Hurricane Isabel came through in 2003 and there were breaches then and there were previous hurricanes but did cause breaches on that section of Highway 12, but not this bad. There are some people there who we talked to said they have never seen the flooding this bad and the damage this bad on Highway 12. There have been breaches but this was devastation. And it was devastation right at a key point where that road connects to some of the other Outer Banks Islands which then as I mentioned connect by a causeway to the mainland. So, that was a key section to be breach. And now, people are isolated because of it. And it will probably take at least a couple weeks to fix that stretch of the roads. So, you know, that's a long time to go without supplies when you have maybe only stocked up for about three or four days. Again, they are going to bring supplies in via ferry but that's going to be slow going. Just a few ferries a day, and they take a couple of hours each to get there. SAVIDGE: And quickly, you know, is there a particular reason why that specific site? I mean, you know, the storm spared much of North Carolina for the -- so, why did it seem to hit so bad there? TODD: Well, that section, and we noticed it when we were flying in. That section of Highway 12 is very, very near the ocean, I think. And it's also near the sound to the west. So, I think you've got between the storm surge that came in from the ocean and then the reverse storm surge that came in, from the west, from the sound, it was kind of a double whammy. No, it did not hit at once but I think the cumulative effect of both those storm surges plus, you know, the overall wind and the rain just combined to really just chop away at that section of Highway 12. And it's in very bad shape, Martin. I think it's going to be at least a week, maybe two and maybe longer to get that road repaired and get it passable again. SAVIDGE: Yes, certainly that storm did a number on that road. No question about it. Brian Todd, thank you very much. New Yorkers, they were spared the worst of Hurricane Irene. Next a live report from Long Island where flooding is a concern. I think good news for air travelers and your Monday commute. Many of the airports that were shut down this weekend, will they open? But don't expect things to be completely back to normal. Your travel forecast, ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: We have breaking news for you now. There is a desperate situation now in the way in Upstate New York. Almost two dozen people say that they are trapped in a vacation home in Prattsville, including pregnant women, some children and infants. Joining me on the phone is Irina Noveck. Irina, what's going on? IRINA NOVECK, TRAPPED IN HOUSE (voice-over): Well, it's kind of crazy out here with no lights, with no water. And we're trapped in a house up in the mountains. And there is pitch black. There is a high pressure river coming down from the top and going down, blocking all the bridges. And all the bridges are coming to the house when we just came into the house. All damage and crashed and there is no way to come in or come out. No one could help us. And we are stuck here and we have a lot of children and there's two pregnant women, there are three infants, there's toddlers, there's teenagers and practically nothing, nothing that could keep us going. We cannot use bathrooms, we cannot wash hand, we cannot eat, we cannot drink, there's nothing absolutely. And it's pitch black due to what happened. And we cannot even have water because the water comes from the well and the well works under electric power, and there's no electric power, so there's no water. SAVIDGE: OK, Irina, let me just slow you down, because we want to understand fully what's going on here. You are cut what, off, surrounded by water? Explain to us why you can't... NOVECK: There is a river next to the house. It's a more of like Upstate New York luxurious area, not a luxurious, but more of a nature, a Mother Nature beautiful, trees, rivers, and bridges. SAVIDGE: I see. NOVECK: And everything went the other way once the tornado hit. And we actually reside in Brooklyn, in Sea Gate around the water. And thought we were safe being here but it turns out it's not, it turned out to be a worse situation. Because Sea Gate is safe and now we are not. Now, the only problems we have right now which the bridges get to this house from New York to here, all four bridges have collapsed. SAVIDGE: So, you're saying that the bridges that you would drive to get away from where you are now, they're collapsed, they're not passable, so, you are all trapped all of you, in this home. What do you need? What is it that can be done to get to you? NOVECK: We need -- well, we called 911, I checked so much as 311 to get some help. And so far, nobody except the Sheriff's Department just called in about a few minutes before I spoke to you. And they said, we are trying to do the best we can to get to you. There are people on the way and the bridges are collapsed. They cannot get to us because it's so far away from us since everything are damaged. And river is still pressuring a lot of waters from the mountain, and there's lot of damage have caused this. The water pressure has caused a lot of damages to all the streets and the bridges and everywhere from the mountain of... SAVIDGE: All right. I know you are -- you clearly would be frightened. And you have every right to be, how is everyone else in the home coping? NOVECK: The kids are panicking. The kids -- the worst thing is the kids cannot use the bathroom because there is no water. So everybody is kind of frightened and don't know what to do. It's a big house and pitch black and everybody is lost, everybody is panicking. And we need some help and hopefully, the Sheriff's Department as they said will help us. They were really nice, they said, we'll do as much as we can to help you, but give us some time. Now, hopefully it's going to be as soon as possible. SAVIDGE: And we hope so, too. Hang right with this, please, Irina. Alexandra, do us a favor, give us an idea of the conditions that she's facing there at least in that area. STEELE: Irina, well, where she is, is Prattsville, New York. It's in Upstate in New York. I'm from Albany in New York. It's just southwest of Albany in New York in Greene County, New York. And where she is, is just south of the Schoharie Reservoir. So, I think she doesn't realize that. If she's just south, kind of just south of this reservoir, just draining all this water. And the problem is, we are talking about -- remember I was talking about flash flooding versus river flooding. Now this, of course, what we are seeing this incredible amount of water, but in Upstate New York the topography, the orographic lifting enhancing all of this rain and as a downpours from this what was tropical storm Irene. So, it has been an tremendous, inordinate amount of water in a very short time and it is all just channeling south from the Schoharie Reservoir. I mean, this is what I'm getting from her by just listening. Again, she's in Greene County southwest of Albany in New York. And of course, Albany has seeing an inordinate amount of flooding, and actually there even still seen 50 mile-per-hour wind gusts with this. So, it is pretty scary. She's kind of right between New York city and in north of that is Albany, New York, about a two- and-a-half hour drive. And it's the Hudson Valley of New York, it's the Catskill Mountain. So, a lot of mountains, orographic lifting enhancing the incredible amount of rain that was already coming down, Martin. SAVIDGE: All right. Thanks, Alexandra. STEELE: Well, good luck to her. We'll see what we could do. SAVIDGE: Irina, we want you to know that we are trying to get authorities on the telephone, so that we can speak to them and see how best we can resolve the situation for all of you in the home. Are you all in one room or how are you situated to keep track and take care of one another? NOVECK: We're trying this one place, fireplace because there is no heating, there's no nothing. So, all the families in one room next to the fireplace. So, hopefully, that keeps us warm, all the kids and the infants and the toddlers. That's the worst thing, that everybody is in one room. Not much space in this room. SAVIDGE: And you ended up in this home how? Why didn't you evacuate with the oncoming storm? NOVECK: Because we didn't -- nobody predicted it to be here. Everybody was concerned about New York City, Brooklyn, but nobody mentioned anything about Catskill Mountains. And this vacation was final about three to four months before, which was where I were. So, we're already here. It's not like we came on a weekend. We were already here from last Monday. SAVIDGE: I see. NOVECK: It was unpredictable basically. SAVIDGE: And do you have flashlights? Do you have food? I mean, do you have the -- do you have water? NOVECK: There is only cell phones that have very little charge. We cannot charge them. So, we used the flashlights from the cell phones. But it's very much useless because of power outage. But we're trying to do as much as we can. The only lights we have is in that room that we're all sitting in with the fireplace. That it's very hard. But, hopefully, the sheriff's department assured us that it will help us, that they didn't forget about us. So, hopefully, they will reach us tomorrow morning. That's our best way to get out of here. It's really -- it really will be -- somehow we need to get out of here. SAVIDGE: Of course. And we're not going to forget about you either, Irina. We will continue to -- (CROSSTALK) NOVECK: Thank you so much. SAVIDGE: And we at the same time are reaching out to, I believe it's green county authorities, so we can understand from them what's being done. And we also understand that, of course, there are many people who may be in need. NOVECK: Right. SAVIDGE: And may be in need of rescue, just as you are because this is an emergency. So, it may be understandable but they cannot get to you right away. And hopefully daylight will make it a much more practical situation for everyone involved because trying to launch a rescue in the dark up in that area would be extremely difficult for you and for certainly the first responders. Are you all right? NOVECK: Yes. The only concern is the infants because we've got food supplies for infants, the formula, for one week and we don't have access to stores. So, we only have one more day of supplies and no water basically. That's the danger part. The infants are in a dangerous position. SAVIDGE: Are you on a ground floor or in an upstairs room? NOVECK: Say it again? SAVIDGE: Are you on the ground floor or in an upstairs room? NOVECK: In the upstairs. SAVIDGE: OK. You mentioned, I believe, a river or water near you. NOVECK: Right next to the house. The basement is flooded. A couple of families sleeping in the basement. So, they all came up because the basement is totally flooded. SAVIDGE: Irene, I'm going to interrupt you now. We have spoken to authorities and they do want to talk to you. And so, we want to get off the line with you so we can clear the line and get it open for them to speak to you. But we do want to know what happens. So, when there is a chance, please get back in touch. NOVECK: OK. We will. Thank you so much. SAVIDGE: Good luck to you, Irene, and everyone else in that house. Thank you. Hurricane Irene meanwhile won't quit. Right now, the remnants of the tropical storm are moving from the U.S. into Canada. But all day long, the drenching rains flooded areas all across the northeast. The danger is far from over. At least 19 deaths are being blamed now on Irene in eight states. Flood waters are still rising in many areas. And more than 4 million homes and businesses are without power as we speak. And it could take several days to get electricity flowing to everyone again. Damage cost will likely be in the billions. President Obama is warning that many Americans aren't out of harm's way yet. He's promising swift federal assistance to victims from that storm. Irene turned out to be more of an inconvenience for major city centers like New York. Newark, LaGuardia and JFK Airports will re- open Monday morning. That's the good news. New York City will also restore subway service starting at 6:00 a.m. Eastern time. Irene may not have hit New York City as badly as many feared, but Long Island -- it caught the brunt of the storm as it passed through. Susan Candiotti is standing by in Long Beach, New York, for us. And, Susan, we understand you are there in the dark even though we do see I guess that's a generator light behind you. SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That's hard to hear because of that. But, Marty, what a difference 24 hours makes. Remember, last night at about this hour, we were being buffeted by the outer bands of Hurricane Irene. Now that storm is no longer even a tropical storm. However, the remnants are being felt, as you said. No major reports of flooding on Long Island. But, certainly, there is enough work here that has some people working even at this late hour. And one of the interesting questions we have is, as you indicated, is the subways will be back in business. The Long Island railroad that operates out here will be carrying a lot of people back to the city tomorrow or will they? Because after all, this is a bedroom community to New York, and as a hub for tourists as well. So, you have to wonder how much money the city has lost because of the storm. What kind of economic impact will there be because of all the preparations? I put that question to Governor Cuomo who came here to visit this afternoon. (BEGIN VDIEO CLIP) GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: Don't underestimate the damage that's been done here. And this will go on for days literally. So, I think it was very prudent that we did what we did and it would have been worse if I hadn't. (END VIDEO CLIP) CANDIOTTI: Now, power outages are still a problem out here on Long Island. More than 400,000 customers are still in the dark, and about a million customers throughout the state. So, as you indicated, Marty, everything isn't completely back to normal yet. Back to you. SAVIDGE: Susan Candiotti, thanks for all your hard work. Good luck to all the folks out here. Well, it could be several days before major cities like Washington, Philadelphia, and New York are running on their normal transit schedules. Alexandra Steele back with us again to look at Monday's commute. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: We are staying on top of Irene's aftermath. We're also following events from Libya. CNN's Nic Robertson found one of the most notorious Libyans in recent history today in Tripoli. Abdelbasset al-Megrahi was convicted of the 1988 Lockerbie bombing of Pan Am flight 103. Scotland released him two years ago on compassionate grounds -- excuse me -- claiming at that time, he had only months to live. Well, when Nic found him, he was barely conscious and appeared to be on death's door. Last hour, I asked Bert Ammerman who lost a brother in the bombing knowing how he felt knowing Megrahi was close to death. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BERT AMMERMAN, BROTHER DIED IN LOCKERBIE BOMBING (via telephone): now?,. (END VIDEO CLIP) SAVIDGE: The downfall of Moammar Gadhafi revealed his family's excesses and cruelties. His son Hannibal led the life of a flamboyant playboy. CNN's Dan River learned about sadistic side of Hannibal's wife when he met a nanny who worked for her and suffered for it. He joins me from Tripoli with more -- Dan. DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We went looking to get an insight into how the Gadhafi sons lived. We found their holiday beachside kind of complex basically of villas. And amongst all this sort of opulence in decadence, we also stumbled into this story of unspeakable suffering. I'm afraid some viewers may find this report disturbing. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RIVERS (voice-over): are sharing hundreds of bottles of fine Bordeaux and Cristal champagne. Each bottle worth hundreds of dollars. (on camera): But amid all the decadence, there were acts of unspeakable cruelty. This house belongs to Hannibal Gadhafi. What went on here was truly horrendous. (voice-over): Meet Shweyga Mulla, a 30-year-old Ethiopian nanny who describes how she was horribly tortured by Hannibal's wife Aline. SHWEYGA MULLA, NANNY said she was actually scalded twice. The most recent episode was three months ago. Her wounds are still raw and weeping. She appears to be in desperate need of medical attention. MULLA: There were maggots coming out of my head because she had hidden me and no one had seen me. And then they found me and put me in the hospital. RIVERS: But then she was discovered and brought back. The guards who helped her were threatened with prison if he took her to hospital again. Co-workers backed up her account. MULLA: meted out even to those trusted to look after the dictator's grandchildren. (END VIDEOTAPE) RIVERS: We are hoping to go and see Shweyga again today and hoping we can do something to help her get some treatment for those terrible burns that you saw there. And I don't think any of us were prepared for what we saw when we walked in the room and saw her lying there on her own. I don't know, Marty. Perhaps some viewers in the U.S., maybe some NGO specializes in burns and can help us help her, if you like. We are hoping that we can get her specialist help. It's pretty clear that she needs some fairly urgent medical attention to avoid those terrible burns scarring more than they have already. SAVIDGE: Yes, Dan. I'm stunned. That's absolutely horrific to see what a human would do to another person. I imagine that first, you'd have to get her out of the country, right? There's no way she's going to get proper treatment there. RIVERS: Yes, I think it's clear having visited a couple of hospitals here. They are totally overwhelmed with people that had been shot. There are bodies stacked up with lots of the hospitals here. It's not a good place to be, especially with open wounds she has. I think it's pretty clear that she needs to get out of Libya and get into Europe or the U.S. and get specialist burn care. You know, I'm not a doctor but it looks like the kind of thing that perhaps if she could get skin grafts or something, perhaps they could do a lot of good and really help her recover. SAVIDGE: Dan, thank you for bringing it to our attention. Hopefully, we can make it happen. When we come back, we will show you the power of Hurricane Irene and the damage it did to North Carolina's outer banks. But first, this program note for you. Coming up at the top of the hour, he had the most powerful job in the country, but his toughest job was saving his own life. Dr. Sanjay Gupta and former President Bill Clinton explore the signs, tests and lifestyle changes that could result in the last heart attack. The special CNN presents coming up at the top of the hour. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: It could be several days before major cities like Washington, Philadelphia and New York are running on their normal transit schedules. Alexandra Steele is here with a look at Monday which is now just hours away. ALEXANDRA STEELE, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You know, unprecedented travel disruptions, really unheard of. So, every city, Washington, Philadelphia, all up and running. The caveat with that, New York City not yet up and running at all its major airports but it will be tomorrow. LaGuardia, arrivals and delays commence and departures, 7:00 in the morning. But if you are flying out of JFK or Newark, arrivals begin at 6:00. But if you are leaving out of either of those airports and happen to have tomorrow as your departure day, which is a whole another issue, you depart beginning at noon. Also, in terms of Amtrak, really struggling the most of any mass transit to get its legs back. What they've got on the rails, flooding on the rails, also power outages and a lot of debris on this train tracks. And Philadelphia is kind of the deciding factor, north of Philadelphia, between Philadelphia and Boston, there is no Amtrak tomorrow at all, still suspended. But south of that from Philadelphia to Washington, through Baltimore, that is up and that is active. And that is on track at this point. That's just a quick look at travel. We'll talk more about flooding and even get back to the Hudson Valley coming up. SAVIDGE: Good luck to people moving on a Monday. Thank you. This destructive weather weekend got started, of course, on the outer banks in North Carolina. That state felt the strongest punch of Hurricane Irene and they got a big cleanup ahead of them. Our CNN's David Mattingly has been there since before the storm hit. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A stunning view of the power of hurricane Irene. North Carolina's highway 12 chopped into pieces on Hatteras Island. The estimated 2,500 residents who stayed behind now stranded with no way to drive out. BOBBY OUTEN, DARE COUNTRY, N.C. MANAGER: We are probably 24 hours away from being able to get there other than by helicopter. MATTINGLY: Hit first, North Carolina felt Irene's strongest punch, bringing what is described as epic flooding to water front communities along Albemarle Sound. Houses and roads that weathered storms in the past were swamped like never before. (on camera): Hurricane Isabel in 2003 was an incredibly destructive storm when it hit here the winds were such that it actually blew this water in the sound away from here. The water level was much lower. But this time when Irene hit, the exact opposite happened. Entire neighborhoods were inundated in hours. One resident caught the flood on camera with winds whipping the water on shore. Just hours later, the waters receded, leaving a mess behind and weeks of cleaning up. KEN PAGUREK, RESIDENT: Part of living in the slice of paradise, you know? MATTINGLY: People of Virginia now cleaning up as well -- 1.2 million were without power from a full day of damaging winds and up to 10 inches of rain. Governor Bob McDonnell is asking for patience. GOV. BOB MCDONNELL (R), VIRGINIA: It's going to be a matter of days or perhaps longer before power is fully restored. MATTINGLY: It is the second worst power outage in Virginia history. Two states that will remember Irene as a hurricane for the record books. David Mattingly, CNN, Kill Devil Hills, North Carolina. (END VIDEOTAPE) SAVIDGE: And we are following breaking news from Upstate New York. Nearly two dozen people, many of them children, trapped in a house by near record floodwaters. We talked to a woman who was in that house. The latest on the story is coming up right after this break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SAVIDGE: We are continuing to follow breaking news from Upstate New York. Seven families unable to leave a home in the Catskill Mountains, and you can see why the folks are in Prattsville. The flood waters from Irene had wiped out the four bridges surrounding a home. Among those who stranded are two expectant mothers and 10 children. Greene County emergency officials tell CNN that they are aware of the situation and they are working toward reaching those families. But crews are overwhelmed. The teams have rescued 87 people so far today in Prattsville. Meteorologist Alexandra Steele is here with information about this. How high the water in Prattsville really is -- Alexandra. STEELE: All right. So, they are in the Catskill Mountains and this has happened over there. It's a village of 600 people and it's Schoharie Creek that is in their basement right now. All right. Here's the Schoharie Creek right where they are. And to give you a little perspective, here is flood stage. You can see at 12 feet. Major flood stage is 16 feet. Where is Prattsville this moment tonight with the water in their basement? Eighteen-point-five -- 18.5 feet, almost record stage for this area. It's just about one more feet, 19.6 feet. Incredibly scary. This is the water. Now Schoharie Creek at Prattsville -- where it is? Eighteen-point-four-seven. Record is 19 feet. Flood stage is 12 feet. But you know what? Last October, the same thing happened and people of Prattsville were cut off for six hours while water inundated their homes. So, again, when the Catskill Mountains, 50 miles southwest of Albany in Greene County. The people have been alerted. But a very scary scenario tonight, no question about it -- Marty. SAVIDGE: Definitely. I mean, you just look at the power of that water, Alex. Thank you very much. Stay with CNN with the latest on this story and, of course, all of the news pertaining to what was storm, hurricane Irene, now longer a storm at all. I'm Martin Savidge at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta, thank you for joining us. Have a good night. Weather forecast

What Helps. What Hurts. What Heals. • What I like about cancer, Parts 1 and 2 NOTE: These originally appeared in two separate posts. They're combined here, with comments from both post appearing after Parts 1 and 2. -LH --- Part 1 I was hoping to share with you how we’re going to treat this #$@$%***%$#@ cancer (not very nicely, I hope – in fact, we’re probably going to cut it out with a scalpel and send it away for genetic testing), but we’re still in the throes of decision-making. I could definitely use this opportunity to acknowledge everyone’s thoughts, prayers, messages, massages, cards, meals, gifts, flowers, chocolates, offers to do research, etc., pointing out, as this blog indicates, “What helps. What hurts. (and) What heals.” So, a huge THANK YOU! But I also want to post the first of several installments re: What I like about getting cancer again. Please post your favorite things about it, too (my cancer, yours, or that of someone else). Don’t you think we should use this #$@$%***%$#@ disease, and not let it use us?!? So here are the first three: 1. I get to be right, at least for now. David is giving me almost no argument about anything about 97% of the time. Love it. 2. I get out of service charges. Normally, I pay my bills early, but was a few days late on a credit card because I’ve been so crazed with medical, book, and other work issues. When I called customer service to contest a nasty letter about a service charge and said, “I have cancer", the guy replied, “No problem! It’s gone.” He meant the service charge, not the cancer, but still…. 3. The cancer came at a good (or better) time. Dad, who died almost one year ago, would be devastated if he were here. This isn’t actually something good about having cancer again, but had my CT from last year shown a malignancy, I’m not sure I would have been able to handle his death, nor he my cancer. To end on a more positive note, it appears this bout with cancer is (eerily) similar to the last go-around, even down to the months/days of tests, diagnosis, and treatment. The nodule is small, easily removed (via surgery, radio frequency ablation, or other method), and I should be up and about a couple of weeks later. As one of my surgeons said, “It’s the gift that keeps on giving” – which means the kind of cancer I have tends to recur – but I went nine years after the first one and I plan on going a long time again, or else my name isn’t Hope! With love, gratitude, and always Hope, Lori Author of Help Me Live: 20 things people with cancer want you to know ---- What I like about Cancer, Part 2 Posted Jun 26, 2011 4:50pm By: 22 Comments Posted Jun 26, 2011 5:35pm By JanHasak Dear Lori,I just love these. The one I now share is not one of the 56 I expressed eight years ago, but it emerged since then: my sons got inspirations for new topics or hobbies. My one son in college spoke about lymphedema for his anatomy class (after consulting me and using my props) and got an A since the condition was so unique. He never would have done that without my cancer. And my other son got to be proficient at keyboarding and is now in a large worship band because of his anger over my cancer. Pursuing music was an outlet to his anger suggested by his youth pastor in Mexico. Tumor boards are wonderful. They advised my oncologist not to give me dose-dense chemo during my second bout with cancer. At first I was upset because I wanted the latest and greatest treatment to beat this thing. But then it turns out that dose-dense chemo is so hard on the body that the treatment may be worse than the disease. Take good care. Prayers and blessings always, and always love, Jan Posted Jun 26, 2011 5:46pm By kpl110 Hi Lori, Thanks for updating us on the treatment decision (or lack thereof ;)) status. If you do end up going for surgery on July 18, I will definitely keep you in my prayers that day! Wanted to ask your permission if you would like to receive a medical handout/flyer on the latest lung cancer treatments - I just happened to receive it in my work mail the other day and thought of you. (would normally have thrown it away since it's not my specialty, but I held on to it just in case) If so, just private Carepage message or Facebook message me with the address you'd like it mailed to. Disclaimer - it's meant for docs, so it may have more 'medicalese' than the usual patient-oriented handouts do. You are right - those of us who have gone through treatment decisions, surgery scheduling, etc. DO know how "stressful" it is - and you're right how that word doesn't even begin to touch the feeling. Actually, when you mentioned that, I had an awful flashback to how it did feel during my 6-week wait before my surgery (largely scheduled that way due to work constraints). Sending you hugs and strength to take it all one day at a time, and hoping that the "I have cancer" thought is not the first thing in your mind when you wake up these days, as it was for me during that time. Anyway, will try to add to your gratitude list -- you're so inspiring that despite all you're going through that you are still finding the "perks". ;) I would say that the understanding of people at work re: cancelling and adjusting work schedules was a "perk." Certainly the things I had to do with my work schedule so I could get to my Surgery appt etc. were NOT things that would fly if it wasn't that I had had cancer! And Lori, feel free to list the (many) things you don't like about having cancer, if you feel the need to get it off your chest. We understand. Love, Kim Posted Jun 26, 2011 6:28pm By TommyJean Dear Lori, I first thing I liked about cancer was finally getting a diagnosis. I went from Dr. to Dr. and they could find nothing wrong. They almost convinced me that it was all in my head. Which should have been easy to do, since no one on either side of my family had ever had cancer. I just found out this past week that my great grandfather died of stomach cancer in 1921. Since I started my battle in 1996, I have had one second cousin and one third cousin be diagnosed and die from cancer. I know it is almost unbelievable. The second thing I liked was that I discovered Wendy's Frosty's. I was losing weight and really have never been a big eater and the Frosty's really did go down easy. Then that led to me finding a private label Peanut Butter Cup Frozen Yogurt and that has become my daily indulgence. I don't feel guilty and savor every bite. I am sure I would go in to withdrawal if they should ever stop producing it. I wish I lived close enough to help you with the "chores" and you know I would. I will continue to pray for you and I know that God will hear and answer my prayers for you. I pray that you meet the right Doctors and they have the perfect plan to stomp the poo out of that $%&(^&^%)#(*&*%&^% CANCER. Love and prayers. TJ Posted Jun 26, 2011 6:31pm By Jo Ellen Hi Lori, I just opened your email and am numb. I am so sorry to hear this news. As always, whatever I can do, please just call. I see that you will be down to Stanford to the Tumor Board, are you interested in seeing David Jablons at UCSF again or is that "just too much"? David's department has grown tremendously over the past few years. Are you still at Kaiser? I am happy to contact him immediately for you, if you so desire. As always, you are more than welcome to call, text, or write at anytime to say anything you feel like saying. Don't forget to continue to mediatate. All my love to you, David and Brett. Love, JO Ellen Posted Jun 26, 2011 6:59pm By mixedcell Hi Lori, I have your "Twenty Things..." book at my cafe and many people have read through it. I told a group of women who were discussing your book that you had a relapse and they were nearly tearful and all said they would pray for you. See you have friends all over you have never met. Thanks to your helping us sisters- in -cancer and being there for us. Where did all MY friends go? They got bored I think after 5 years of no remission and intermittent crisis, that I had not died already! As for my family they were bored from day one. My most recent crisis when a friend thought I was surely dying and called my angry daughter, she "lovingly" called the police who came and were pretty pissed off. They asked my friend, "does she do drugs"? A worried mother all the time. I need a break by now. Sending love your way, Carol Kaplan Posted Jun 26, 2011 7:10pm By KevinPal I want to reach for your book because I am at a loss for words. Your diagnosis, and that of my father-in-law, seem to have thrown cancer to the forefront of my world. Dad is not well - his liver biopsy of 6/17 shows the primary renal cancer has spread. He has a wonderful, young, talented oncologist, and she has told us that in younger patients, they would go after the tumor on the kidney with surgery, but that is not an option with his age, nor with how much the cancer has spread. Radiation is not an option because of the large amounts of lesions and tumors; currently, they are only targeting the area in his neck because if they don't, he will likely be paralyzed. The primary site is the right kidney and has spread to his bones throughout his thorax, both lungs, and as I mentioned, his liver. Stage 4. Not curable. And so we move forward - planning, cleaning, asking, praying, scheduling, worrying. All the things going on in your world. With him, I am at a loss for words, beyond my role as dutiful protector and financial strategist. For you, likewise, I am at a loss, stuck with an overwhelming sense of "Lori knows all this 'stuff' better than any of us." But I know it's personal, too, and when it comes to that point, the words dry up and thoughts get tangled. So here's my best shot - you are in my thoughts and in my prayers. I pray for your health and I think good thoughts for your rapid recovery. Happy Sunday. KP Posted Jun 26, 2011 10:53pm By Janet Lori, Cancer....it has to be one of the most dreadful words ever.....my prayers are with you as you begin to travel down this road again. I pray that you can find the answers that you need to find the best healthcare, surgeons, etc. that can help ease your mind and emotions. You have been on my mind so much, and I just want to say thank you for all of your blogs that you have written as it helped me through some long days being a caregiver.....please know that even though we have never met face to face, that I am very much here for you!!! You have lots on your shoulders but there is another special angel that is looking over you this go around!!! Hang in there and hugs to you my friend!!! Blessings as always, Janet cp: KennethAtkins 8-15-08 Posted Jun 26, 2011 11:32pm By Kelly the only good part is that you have become a friend... I wish there was a way I could take it all away for you ... continue to know you are supported and loved by so many ....... kell Posted Jun 27, 2011 11:33am By HeidiAnn A word of caution for all: please don't refer to cancer as "*my* cancer." Don't try to own it or make it a part of you by using a pronoun. Instead say "this cancer" or "the cancer" or this "&*^%$*^* cancer." Even tho it feels less personal that way, that's what you want to project into the atmosphere... Sending healing energy to all.... Posted Jun 27, 2011 12:35pm By Nita I'm still in shock you are dealing with lung cancer again. I honestly thought, after all this time, that you were safe. It is taking a while to sink in for me. I agree with Kelly. One good thing that has come along with my lung cancer is having you as my friend. AND, many other friends I wish I never met too!! But thank God we all have each other. The lung cancer community has been my rock. Nita Posted Jun 27, 2011 2:25pm By Anita Hi Lori, The good thing about cancer is meeting you, so I agree with Kelly, wholeheartedly. I have your phone number and your address and maybe one day I will come and visit and call before I come to make sure that it's convenient for both of us. Still I will continue to drop notes in the mail and continue to be a support to you as long as you need it. This forum is also a good thing about cancer being able to listen to other patients and caregivers stories and be able to help them as much as possible by sharing my story. Thank you for your book, your carepages blog, and all of the wonderful things that make you such a great and tireless cancer advocate and person in general, whom I am glad to call friend and admirer. Much love, respect,hugs, and support and friendship always, Anita Posted Jun 27, 2011 2:31pm By LoriHope Jan- love those perks, esp. because they’re long term and provide excellent perspective. Also love your perspective on tumor board: I’ve feared they may tell me what I don’t want to hear! Kim, I would very much like to see that. Will send info re: what addy too use. Sorry my post caused a flashback – I know what that’s like (having flashbacks precipitated – sometimes you’re just blindsided) - And, sadly, it pretty much is the first thing I think about, though tomorrow is the year-anniversary of Dad’s death, so I’ll probably think of that tomorrow first thing, as I did for so long after he died. TJ, I so relate to the diagnosis story, and have heard similar ones (and perhaps mine will be added to it!) for too many years. Guilty pleasures are best when they’re not accompanied by guilt at all! Good for you!! And I sure wish you lived close too. ☺ Thanks again for your prayers. Jo Ellen, thanks so much. I’ll never forget nine years ago, how you were 110% there for me. I did see DJ a couple of weeks ago. As for meditation, gotta get going on that. I’m trying yoga, easier to still my mind. Carol, wow! Thank you for sharing that re: your café group. So sorry about your friends. So painful – so sad some people can’t deal with illness and especially chronic. You made me smile with the comment re: you had died already – not out of pleasure but a sense of understanding. Know how much you are cared for and loved here. Not a substitute for daughter but it’s love. Oh, Kev, so sorry about your dad. Ouch. Glad he has good onc, but other news sucks. Tomorrow is one year anniversary of Dad’s death. One thing I can say is I didn’t think I could live without him. But here I am. Sending you so much love. And your words are perfect. Janet, so glad this has helped you through caregiving – some new info in second edition of book that should help caregivers more! I so appreciate your being here for me! Will respond to your comments later -- am with my family for anniversary of Dad’s death and waiting for call from doc so need to go! Love and hope to all, Lor Posted Jun 27, 2011 5:19pm By Nita I thought of one more good thing about having cancer....People inviting me to dinner and insisting I just bring my smiling face. I ask if I can bring anything..."oh no, just yourself." I ask if I can bring something easy, like wine or a Tart from the local French Bakery..."No just bring your smile." During my remission we had Thanksgiving in October when my nephew was home from Afghanistan. I brought everything, with the exception of mashed potatoes (yes, I even brought the turkey). I LOVED making everything at my house and bringing it to my sisters. Now, I'm an empty handed guest. Nita Posted Jun 28, 2011 9:08am By Laura Lori - I hope you check back in to read these, I haven't been able to check out your new blog post since you put it up... Anyway, while I may not have been the one actually fighting the cancer - I spent two very long years watching my dad fight. From my perspective the "good things" about having loving someone with cancer include, you finally get to really show them hoe much you love them. You get to do things for them, and they can't argue. You have a real opportunity to make love a verb. Also, those last two years of my dad's life... we took our relationship to a new level, we became closer, I took the time to really listen to what he had to say. I made sure my kids new their grandpa for the man he really was. I made every minute of my time with him count. As much as it hurt to watch him suffer, and and as much as I miss him, I truly treasure those two years for the opportunity it gave us to really be a family. We made excuses to throw big parties with the whole extended family, and people came out of the woodwork for a chance to spend time with him before he was gone, people who otherwise we wouldn't have seen if he hadn't had cancer. My parents took trips that they had been saving for... and my friends, my amazing friends... they came through again, and again, and again. Cancer is the ultimate equalizer and it brings out the best of the human spirit in all those around. I hate cancer, but some of it's side effects aren't so bad... Posted Jun 29, 2011 4:38am By NancyE Dear Lori, I too try to focus on the good, for example I now have a handicapped parking pass. I can park virtually anywhere!! Wowee, how cool is that! In preparation for my third round of radiation, today I received three more tatoos!! Whoopee, I am keeping up with the Jonese! My kids are so impressed. What else? Hmmmm. I still have a house keeper come help out once a week. It is big frivolous expense, but so nice to let someone else do the heavy lifting and all. When people ask me if it is a wise expense I tell them I don't know but it is worth every penny in relief. So, enjoy that positive side of the cancer rainbow. IT is a lot more fun that the other side. NancyE Posted Jun 30, 2011 11:17am By LoriHope Kelly, ☺! I feel the same way! Heidi, very good point! Though I do embrace it as a part of me, like my Inner B. And most of us have cancer cells in us at all times, but our healthy immune systems eat them up. Nita, sometimes I think about the people who woke up on Sept. 11 almost ten years ago and thought they were safe. That’s why I try to seize the day, when I can. And forgive myself when I can’t. And I love the other good thing about cancer- and the unforgettable gift you brought for your nephew. What an act of love. Have added it to my list. Dear Anita, I love the notes you pop in the mail. They mean so much, and I can look at them again and again. Your friendship is precious to me. Laura, I do check in and hope others check back! (But if they don’t that’s okay too.) I’m glad someone who hasn’t fought the beast w/in their own body is weighing in. And what powerful benefits! Yesterday was the year-anniversary of Dad’s death and I remember all the love I and others were able to show. A gift to us as well as him. Thank you for pointing that out to all of us, and especially me on that special day. Nancy E, those are other great benefit! And tattoos – thanks for the laugh! Boy, do I need a housekeeper! Haven’t been able to justify it just yet (as you know, cancer can be VERY expensive!) but just might splurge. Or list it as something friends can do if/when the time comes. My love to you, Lor Posted Jun 30, 2011 5:45pm By HOPE-KC Dear Lori, It's great to enjoy every minute of every day! As one of my friends says, "Every day is a good day some are just better than others." Keeping you and yours in my prayers. Love and hugs! Daryl Posted Jul 1, 2011 10:58am By LoriHope Hi, Daryl- thank you for that uplifting quote! I feel that way most days. :) Am returning your love and hugs with my own! Lori Posted Jul 2, 2011 6:48pm By TommyJean Lori, I don't know why but it just clicked with me; June 29 is my daddy's birthday. Unfortunately he died on May 27, 1973, a month before he was 55. My first name is Tommy, I was named for daddy. Just thinking about you and your dad when it clicked with me that we shared June 29, for memories. Keeping you in my heart and prayers. TJ Posted Jul 5, 2011 1:47pm By Dolores Hi Lori, You are in my thoughts and prayers. Thank you for keeping us well informed and for thinking of others who are traveling this road with cancer. Posted Jul 5, 2011 5:00pm By Alissa Lori - Just heard...Hate this stuff - I thought you were in the clear again. I am so sorry. Please know I am thinking of you and your family and since last go around, there are so many new treatment options! Just look at Joey - still going strong! Love and kisses and much strength! Posted Jul 6, 2011 9:26am By LoriHope TJ - yet more we have in common. I love my virtual sisters, brothers, cousins, dear friends! Dolores, thank you so much. I do feel the prayers. Alissa, imagining your face, and Joey's - and his vitality and strength - give me more hope than I can say. I love tPosted Jun 26, 2011 4:50pmBy: Author of Help Me Live: 20 things people with cancer want you to know 23 Comments Thanks for the update Lori. I've been thinking about you a lot lately. Cancer does have a mind of it's own. 9 years is a long time, but I wish this didn't happen to you again. When I found out I had cancer, my cousin, whose husband had colon cancer laughed and said "now you can pull the "cancer card" like Phil did." She would hear him on the phone apologizing for not being able to volunteer, etc "I have cancer." It stops people dead in their tracks. Every year for as long as I can remember I have been involved in a local fundraiser that has taken on a life of it's own and not in a good way. When they called me in 2009 and asked me if they could count on me again I told them "oh I'm so sorry, but I had cancer and I just finished chemo." I haven't heard from them since. I also got out of a few late fees too. One woman I spoke to at a call center had cancer too and we had a nice long chat. And the meals brought after my surgery was wonderful. My ex husband took care of me and people brought over entire meals, including dessert for 10 days. Then it all started again during chemo. Leave it to me to gain weight during chemo. Glad to see your sense of humor is intake despite your recent diagnosis. For me a sense of humor is essential. Love, Nita Oh, Lori, I love this. I can identify completely with your three positive observations, even though our types of cancer were different. When I had my second bout with breast cancer (and now I am over eight years in remission from that second bout!), I wrote down all the blessings that came from cancer (after I'd just had a bout with nausea from the chemo). I came up with 56. Included were: 1. Getting out of jury duty (yes, a prescription slip from my oncologist got me off jury duty permanently), 2. Being diagnosed with the second bout AFTER my Dad lost his leg to arteriosclerosis so I could concentrate on my own treatment, and 3. Having my lung punctured during insertion of the chemo port so the heavy chemo would be delayed a bit and I could finish up the school year with the kids' homework before the chemo regimen set in. Those were just a few. I'm always interested to see what good things can come out of this X#X%%#@ disease, so I'll be checking back and also eager for your next post. You are so right: let's not let this disease use us; we will use it. I like that spunky attitude. You go, girl! And for many more than nine years (a full lifetime) this go-around. Ever praying, ever hopeful, Jan Hi Lori, Have to heard of the new anti-angiogenesis diet that disallows the development of blood vessels to keep cancer alive? I hate to be of those people suggesting treatments most are full of hooey but this one sounds promising. Google it. BTW i never got any of the benefits you mentioned I must just not the kind of person who draws empathy of any kind. I wish cancer were good for something in my like which is growing shorter. All prayers and hope, Carol Kaplan Dear Lori, I love this post. I love that you get to be right all the time (at least for now!) When my mom was very sick and my ear buds to my iPhone died and I was up in Massachusetts and I went to the Apple Store to exchange them for a new set (something that takes 3 minutes) the Apple store worker told me I needed an appointment and the next appointment wasn't for another 2 hours. I burst into tears and said my mother had cancer and I was caring for her and this was my one trip out of the house that day (which was all true) and the young man immediately exchanged my ear buds for me. Also, my partner also has the gift that keeps on giving, and it does make me care for him in a more loving way, and he also (if I might speak for him) really likes his doctor (they see each other every 3-6 months) and is building a close enough relationship that he solicited film funding ideas from him! Hi Lori, So glad to hear your nodule is "small, easily removed (via surgery, radio frequency ablation, or other method), and you should be up and about a couple of weeks later." Keep us posted when you decide on the treatment plan / surgery date. Also glad that you get some "perks" during this difficult time. ;) I agree that though it's not really a "good" thing about your having cancer again, it must be "good" not to have to "worry" about how your dad would handle it. Part of why I continue to keep my own cancer "secret" from my parents is b/c I fear they will NOT handle it well. XOXO, Kim Hi Lor, I was in for a colonoscopy last week( a week early as it turns out , I had the date wrong! But they took me thank God.) Anyway I digress, I was answering all the questions they need to know. When the nurse asked about cancer I told her. Lung cancer eleven years ago. She was like "you don't look like you had cancer". As I told you just as I told you before " you will be perfect again soon!". God bless and strength both physically and mentally, John Dear Lori, Ummm, please excuse the audible pause, I know it is proper at least in public speaking, but I will bypass the rules on that and just share a little from me. Frankly a few years ago when my sister came down with thyroid cancer I was scared perhaps I was really angry and concerned we had just lost our dad to cancer about a year before that and now she has cancer for the second time, 20 years before that she had ovarian cancer. I have faith, hope and love in yours and others postings. I mentioned to my sister that I was going to share this with her inhopes she will comment. In Christ's love, Bud P.S. I too loved your posting today. hmm..as much as I TRY to see any "good" that came from the beast...it's very difficult. I don't identify with all the flowery poems about what cancer "can't" take from me. Lord..it took all of that and more. BUT..if I MUST..and I'm feeling I MUST.. ; P I'll cop to playing the "cancer card" too. Why not??? pfffffffffffffffffft. AND, I know I will NEVER have to "explain" my need for chill pills EVER again! I need them, I use them, and that's OK. NOT brave...nope..not a bit. Could always hold my own against any PERSON, win nearly every argument when I'm in the right..but cancer brings me to my knees....STILL. Even with my recent clean scan...I'm sure it's a matter of "when" not "if"..that's not negativity..it's the nature of the beast. Realistic. My level of empathy causes me to worry about all of US. US...as if we were a different species. I have my sense of humor, my family, my dogs.....but my world became very small with this disease. OK OK OK!!!! I pretend I don't feel good and let my husband do things I really COULD do but don't feel like it!! ha!! We care about you, girl...try to keep us in the loop about the plan for beating back the beast...again. Much love Lori. xoxoxoxoxoxxo Diane June, I’m both sorry and glad you “get it”. Hope your sister is doing well. And love that Merry Maids is helping her! We’ve been so busy I can’t imagine cleaning up enough right now for a housecleaner (always have to straighte up before someone comes to clean)! Thank you for your kind words about my book – the second edition should be even more helpful – and more important, for your love and blessings! Nita, those are great stories, and love your sense of humor. So funny because I was just thinking about losing weight as another perk to cancer – but it’s certainly not a given. Also love that your ex was there for you. That says a lot about you both! Jan, 56!? Wow! I’ll have to mention that in my next post as a challenge to readers (and maybe I’ll add a new page on my soon-to-be-remodeled website)! It’s a great exercise. Although I’m not an “always look on the bright side” kind of gal, I’m a big fan of trying to refocus attention and gratitude. Thank you! With love and always hope, L *more later- gotta bounce this morn Oh, Lori. This is the first I'm "hearing" of your cancer making a return appearance. Goddamn it! But you will be the good patient as we all have been under these circumstances and you will beat it again. Just keep your eyes on the prize. Is there anything to like about cancer? Sorry, no. Yes, some of those we love rise to the occasion and are wonderfully supportive and do amazing things, but if they love us, they are there, cancer or not. They don't need the cancer to prove they love us. I'll be in touch with you soon and we can talk in person. Hi Lori, I love this post, so much! It gives me hope that you will be alright. You are being as positive as you can be with everything that has been thrown in your lap recently. I'm glad your cancer came back this year too, your father would have wanted you take care of yourself first, I think, then take care of him. I know that your father's death is still fresh in your memory especially since it was father's day this Sunday. The first father's day without ones father can be a hard one, it was for me. Both cancer and you have something in common, you both keep on giving. Cancer can come back and rear it's ugly head anytime it seems and I wish it hadn't happened to you. You just give of yourself too by sharing your heart-wrenching news and ask for advice or help or prayers and because you give some much, you get so much in return. All my love, big hugs and kisses, your friend, supporter and whatever you need, Anita Hi, Carol, and I’m sorry you didn’t get the benefits. Believe me, I’d much rather not have the cancer and never get any of the benefits. Know you’re in my prayers. And re: empathy, sometimes it’s just the luck of the draw – who’s around you, who’s in your life. Just like cancer. Sometimes just the (crappy) luck of the draw- Jenny, gotta love Macs, huh? They even do cancer compassion better. ☺ And wonderful how those kinds of experiences stick – another and far more desirable kind of gift that keeps on giving. Having a good relationship with your doc is golden and so enriching for all involved. Though I’m wondering whether you can get too close…a subject for a blog down the road. Kim I’m sad that you have to fear your family won’t take it well. I want you to receive the most loving, selfless support possible, but sometimes people are unable to get beyond their own fear and worry. So tough. Anyway, glad you are beloved by your friends, me included. Love the story, John. When do you get results? Bud, thanks for sharing that with your sister. So strange, timing sometimes is… When I was first diagnosed it was as if the plagues came down upon us. (Ants, raccoons, and something else…) But we endure. With the help of friends like you. Diane, I love your honesty. It’s refreshing. So real. Thanks for you loving and caring – means the world to me- With love and hope to all, Lor Lori - is it Lori M.? - hope so. Was going to email you but just haven't felt right, not knowing what the action plan is. Also...just too busy to respond to people now. you know. And yet how can I not connect with those I love? Love, Lor Anita, that is one of the loveliest messages anyone could have sent. Thank you. I try to keep on giving - there's a great quote about that in my new book (not me personally but about giving in general and why we do it...) Hope to see you at an WCRC event before long- love, lor Lori my friend, I am sorry to hear that this %^%#$ disease is being a %$@#%$%$#. I am praying for you and will keep praying for you. I am here for you if you need me. Dan Cohen North Miami Beach FL [email protected] Lori, I have so many things I want to share with you, most importantly is, "you are Hope personified." I looked up Hope and here are my findings: 1: to desire with expectation of obtainment 2: to expect with confidence : trust We have confidence and trust that you will obtain a total victory over #$@$%***%$#@ cancer. We desire with expectation of obtainment that you will be declared, NED very soon. Thank you for being you. Lifting you up with love and prayers. TJ Hi Lori: Beautiful YOU!!! Just read your blog and am continuously amazed at just how inspiring you are... You are so genuine and allow yourself to "feel the feelings", and then move on... And your ability to use humor is so refreshing! :-) Don't know how you do it, but you do! And that's what makes you: Beautiful YOU!!! Thank you for sharing your "Hope & Inspiration" with so many... Can't wait to see you in the office and hug on you again! Much love & prayers my friend, Shirley Dan, thank you for cursing along with me. There's something so naughty and healing about it. :) The prayers and presence are deeply appreciated! TJ - I love the way you think - and of course the very kind words you come up with re: moi :) Hoping to meet NED very soon! Shirley! Love that you stopped by and can't wait to see your beautiful smile and feel your hug (you are a GREAT hugger)! And thank you for your wonderful words and prayers! Love you all, Lor Hello Lori, Thank you for sharing your early plans on how you will be fighting the return of the #!@%&***# Cancer. Knowing what you are facing will take some of fear away. No one knows exactly why cancer can reoccur so often. Even when we try to follow and the suggestions about healthy living and control stress in our life as much as possible cancer survivors are well aware they may hear the dreaded words 'It's Back" My mother always told me what ever I gave out to the world would be returned to me ten fold. I don't think I've been a caring, helpful person soting up credits for when I need them That's just who I am. Years ago I drove past a visiting circus and I could see an elephant lying on the ground. I stopped the car jumped out and ran to the elephant. People laughed and said what did I think I could do Give mouth to trunk CPR. No, But if the elephant needed help I could find somebody to help. I wouldn't have to tell my mother that I was sick, she would already know. One night, when I was very sick in the hospital my brother phoned because he could sense something amiss. I think you have to look for the little positive things tht happen in life. When I was undergoing six weeks of radiation and couldn't wear ANY bra any more, I got to go to work without a BRA. I took my RX to the drug store for pain medication. The pharmacist fill my script right away. I flew to another province to attend a conference and I've never receive such attentive care at the airport or on the plane. I had promised to be at a pancake breakfast before I underwent surgery. ANd I wanted to keep that promise. I think I looked like I had been hit by a truck. I felt I was celebrating surviving. Somebody said I was playing the cancer card. I said no It's my Stick it to cancer card. I'd been a part of a Run for the Cure Team for a number of years. And the year I was undergoing chemo, and I couldn't run, I had to hold on to the goal post so I could cheer for My Team who raised in a phonomenal amount of money. People were annoyed when I said I was lucky when I had cancer. I think I was Lucky the doctors were able to treat it and lucky I had enough leave and medical coverage I wasn't overwhelmed with debt. I was lucky that I could pay for parking There would have been years when I couldn't have done that. I stood outside on June 21 I wanted to enjoy the longest day of the year. I know that even now the days are growing shorter again. That is the way things happen. Remember Lori, we gotts have high hopes With love and support and good medical care to face what ever is before us. Keep smiling girl. As always Joan Lori, I know exactly what you mean about being glad your dad isn't here to witness your recurrence. I feel the same way. I'm thankful in some ways my mom wasn't here for my cancer diagnosis. Still in other ways, I know what I have missed by her absence. I am thinking of you as you make decisions about treatment. All my best. Joan, I laughed at the elephant remark. I'd have done the same thing. And don't we wished we accrued karma points? Doesn't work that way. We jsut do what we do. We did the same June 21. And I thought of you when I looked at my rubber tree outside - should post a photo. Thank you for the reminder Nancy, thanks for your comment. I am missing Dad so much now I can't even say. Tues. marks a year - a year ago at htis time...I can't bear to think of it.But Momma Jude arrived last night- and Brett- hope to write about it if I can just make a few minutes! Thanks, All, and again my love, Lor lori, your talmudic approach to your cancer is MOST enlightening, especially to those of us who've had cancer --dare i say it ? you make the entire exhausting process a matter of interest, education, even WONDER-may this time be the LAST time , may you continue for long years to enrich our lives--hugs, dale block Dale, seeing your name and hearing your most kind words brought a smile to my face and a warm wave of love to my heart. Thank you for your good wishes, and for all you have done - for the tremendous amount of work you have done and continue to do- for those of us gut-punched by cancer. xox, L Lori, I am so sorry that this is happening again to you. I had to read this twice to make sure I read it right the first time. Like you said...you beat it once, you can beat it again and go on. I am praying for you and your family. I now (because of my sister's cancer) know how stressful this whole thing is on you and your loved ones. One good thing that is happening for my sister since she has cancer: Merry Maids are coming out to clean house for her for 10 times FREE (2 hours each)! And like you said, we all do bend over backwards (sort of) to please someone who has cancer. I loved your first book and have passed it on to other family members. Waiting for the release of your new one. Love you Lori. God Bless, June

Bike Science: Making sense out of traffic signal sensors Posted by Shawn Small (Columnist) on September 27th, 2010 at 3:14 pm Welcome to our newest column: Bike Science with Shawn Small One? To supplement my own understanding of this topic, I got in touch with Peter Koonce, the Division Manager of Signals, Street Lighting, and Intelligent Transportation Systems (ITS) for the City of Portland (learn more about him here). The word on the street seems to be that the sensors are either weight or magnet based, but Koonce assures me that's not the case. The truth is, neither weight nor magnets will get you the green; the sensors are actually based upon the principles of electrical inductance. Here's how it works... If you ride around Portland, you'll observe one of following three patterns in the road at each traffic signal; - Circular loop: basic circle shape - Quadrupole loop: two squares next to each other - Diagonal Quadrupole: two diagonal coils A loop of electrical wire is embedded in these patterns. An electrical current (like your home electricity) runs through these loops at a set frequency and power; this produces an electromagnetic field in the loop of a constant value. When a metal object — like a bicycle wheel — passes over this loop, it disturbs this electromagnetic field. A detector measures this disturbance and sends a message to the traffic signal controller saying that someone is waiting. The most sensitive part of the inductive sensor is marked with a small bike lane icon. By putting your wheels directly on top of this marking you will disturb the electromagnetic field and signal the detector. According to sensor manufacturers, bicycle rims and cranks generally provide enough metallic material to trigger the sensor. But if you have a full carbon fiber bike, carbon fiber wheels, and carbon fiber components, you could be out of luck. These sensors may not be set sensitive enough to measure the disruption in the field caused by a bicycle; this can lead to triggering problems and leave you stuck in the road. So if you are at a familiar traffic signal with your bike correctly placed on the sensor and unable to trigger the sensor in a timely manner, contact your local Department of Transportation to report the sensor (if you're in Portland, call (503) 823-1700). Loop sensors aren't perfect, so there are a lot of interesting new systems being developed. One of the more exciting ones uses a digital camera and image recognition software to detect when someone has pulled up to a traffic signal. The City of Portland has one of these on the west end of the Broadway Bridge to activate the bike signal. Personally, I would love to see a small light bulb turn on when you have triggered the sensor to let you know that you are correctly waiting in line. So save your time and money and don’t bother gluing magnets to your shoes. The easiest way to trigger the traffic sensor is to observe the markings on the road and safely put your wheels on those marks and wait for your turn. Want to know more? - City of Portland’s Manual on getting detected. - Everything you ever wanted to learn about road inductance sensors here, here, and here. - A patented design to trigger the sensor. — Hope you enjoyed the first Bike Science column. We're just getting started so stay tuned for more. If you have a question or a topic you think Mr. Small should tackle, drop us a line and we'll send it to the lab for analysis. Bike Science is sponsored by: Strava.com - GPS cycling, virtual competitions and detailed ride analysis. Possibly related posts Great info! Thanks Shawn, I knew this column wouldn't disappoint.Recommended No more magnets glued on my shoes, okay... but it sounds like chain mail leggings would probably help, right?Recommended Very interesting, thanks! Looking forward to more of these columns!Recommended Thanks for writing about this! I've been wondering about this for years. Question--if the bike icon is present, but no obvious lines in the pavement are present, does that mean there is or is not a sensor?Recommended Bottom bracket shell/bearing assembly sits lowest on the bikes frame and is easily a half pound of steel of some sort most of the time...carbon fiber bottom bracket bearings? Most any aluminum, carbon or titanium bike should have enough steel in this location on the bike to do the trick... If u have to, lean the bike over the 'trigger' wire with the bottom bracket and peddle/crankarm as close to the roadway surface as possible. More light triggers for bikes!!!Recommended Some bikes use ceramic bearings in the bottom bracket.Recommended Thanks, Shawn. Look forward to more of the practical and cool arcana from the science corner.Recommended Happy riding. Thanks Shawn. It's good to keep refreshing this information, as new cyclists join us every day. Unfortunately, these loops exists at only an abysmal fraction of controlled intersections and the loops only work well a fraction of the time. For years Portland has been ahead of the curve with examples of neat ideas, but we've a long way till the rubber hits the road in an equitable functional way. Cheers to all the folks who've got us so far. I'd look forward to helping out with action from the BTA or the CCC o AROW or the PeoplesDOT or BikePortland or whomever to help better mobilize city resources so that, since the traffic laws equally apply to people in cars and on bikes, that the traffic engineering spending goes to work in ways that don't exclusively work for the automobile crowd. We've tooted Portland's horn long enough. Time to ring a bell.Recommended Love this column, nice work Shawn!Recommended @ nosilla #4: if there's a bike icon present, definitely put your bike on it -- the sensor loops have been paved over but they still work. That icon is sometimes the only way to know where to wait (the photo is a case in point). And one more thing to add: stay there until the light turns green! It's not sufficient to just roll over the sensors. If you leave the sensor loops before the light turns green, the signal might assume you've taken a right on red and are no longer waiting...and it won't turn green for you.Recommended Maybe this question is better suited for a follow-up article, but I would be interested to know what you are allowed to do when you get caught in the intersection and the light won't change.Recommended So suppose there is a loop or diamond in the road and there is no bike symbol indicating the most sensitive part of the arrangement. Where should a bike be positioned? I've heard that for circle loops, it should be far enough from the edge of the loop so your wheels are both touching the edges of the loop. Is that true? what about the diamond-shaped sensors?Recommended Saying that a magnet won't effect an electro-magnetic field is highly conter-intuitive, and while I'm not an electrical engineer, I think it's just flat out wrong.Recommended Brian E #11: I've heard that if a signal passes you up for more than two cycles you can proceed through with caution (since you can't just wait around forever because the signal is telling you to), but I have no idea of the actual legal rules. Perhaps someone who actually knows something about it can comment! El Biciclero #12: Just from my personal experience riding around, but I seem to find waiting on the right hand side of the circle loop works pretty well for me. I've only not gotten a light once or twice when I've been able to spot the loop and stop over it.Recommended I think the sensors should be set so that a car has to wait until a bicycle comes to trigger the light :) Seriously, I'm soo tired of waiting through several light cycles for a break in traffic so I can get across the freaking road, because a dimwit can't be bothered to adjust the sensitivity of the sensor to pick up my steel bike with aluminum rims. Seriously, they don't even need an entire bike, just a single rim will work to trigger the sensor if it's adjusted properly. You think they could find room for a BMX rim (least amount of material of the common bike sizes) on the freaking truck to set the sensor. And yes, I get a bit peeved about this issue, especially after someone bitches at me about cyclists "always" running red lights.Recommended @Rider #13 Think of it like this: when measuring the vibration in a column of water does changing the color of the water change the period or frequency of the vibrations? All a magnet does is provide a different space for the energy to vibrate, it doesn't change the vibrations materially. In order to do that it would have to be either very massive in which case it wouldn't be any different that a bigger bike, or it would have to be long and thin which would make it like a loop of wires, which also causes the sensor to trigger.Recommended re comment 14, to be strictly legal you would have to make a right turn on red, and then -- oh, wait, you can't make a u-turn within city limits, 811.365. okay, what you would need to do is dismount and cross as a pedestrian. 'course if you hit the pedestrian signal button you should get the light eventually. here and there, the city has put these buttons within reach of a cyclist who has cooperated in pulling to the curb.Recommended is it legal to turn left against red light when it would not trigger my bicycle?Recommended Why bother? The law says if a cop didn't see ya run da red, ya didn't do anything wrong. Besides, traffic lights are way over-rated. There are some valid reasons why runnin' da red is not that bad of an idea. 1) No or light traffic; 2) No hazards in the immediate area; 3) For sum weird reason, you rollin' da 'hood in spandex, on a high-dolla ride, beggin' to git JACK'd.Recommended h, in the instance you cited, assuming you're in a left turning lane, where you've got a red, but through traffic hs a green, i would (make sure it was safe to) merge to the rightmost lane, cross to the opposite sidewalk, and then wait for that light to signal for you to go straight. if you're in a non-turning lane left lane, and so the light is red for through traffic, then i would recommend the same, except of course you'd have to press the pedestrian signal first to get the red light to change.Recommended My friends and I used to use a trombone to trip a signal in order to open one-way only gates into restricted parking lots. That way you could drive in the "out only" gate and bypass the "pay to get in" gate. The trombone is brass, so it would set off the trigger.Recommended #4 nosilla - If you can't see the lines (saw cuts) in the pavement it is likely that we put the detector in before the asphalt was in position. That's preferred practice if the entire street is being rebuilt and results in the detection lasting a lot longer than it will otherwise. #8 Mike - we are looking forward to your phone calls. We'll respond pretty quickly if you call in and give a good description of what intersection (in Portland) you are at and what direction you're headed. #12 El Bicerco - you need to be where you break the symmetry of the electrical field. In the middle of the sensor is not the best. Our stencils are on the edge of the circle. One more note: if you see diamond loops, those are more than likely pretty old. #13 rider - the magnet can cause problems with the detector. #16 Opus the Poet - we have a guy in the truck with a bike tire, honestly. #19 Paul Tay - disregarding traffic signals is one of the things the general public responds to with the most negativity. In Portland, we're ready to do better than we have. Last point for those of you in Beaverton (where video detection cameras are their standard)... they can detect people in bicycle lanes are usually set up to do so. The cameras are detecting changes in pixels. Our installation on the west end of the Broadway Bridge has trouble with people on bicycles at night wearing all black without headlights. If you're not lit, get lit (as the saying goes). A stronger light is better.Recommended You have to be lucky to get these sensors to register, even when you do know how they work. The truth is they are made for cars, which is fine. If I want to stop at a light and fiddle around, I'd drive a car. Luckily with a bicycle there is much more freedom.Recommended A light not triggered by a sensor is malfunctioning. A malfunctioning light should be treated as a stop sign. No need to hang out for multiple cycles and be a target in the middle of the road.Recommended I'm so happy to see this article! I've noticed a lot of red-light running by cyclists lately on my bike commute home through the rose quarter and up to Vancouver-Williams. Often, the cyclist at the front of the bike lane pulls up to the light, but doesn't know to line their bike up on the loop detector. Then twenty other cyclists pull up behind the first cyclist, all waiting for their light. The light never comes, because the cyclist at the front is not lined up to trigger the light. So twenty cyclists all just decide to run the red. I really think we could use huge "LINE BIKE UP HERE" words with an arrow, next to key loop detectors at intersections of potential danger or conflict. Not many people out there are traffic engineers, and would most likely kill themselves if they knew something as dorky as what loop detector was!Recommended Nick (#2) - Magnets on the shoes will still work. Moving a wire through a magnetic field is one of the most common ways to create inductance, it's the basic principle behind all electric motors and generators. Jonathan, not all metals will work - only those which are ferromagnetic. Those that are less ferromagnetic will have a lesser effect, possibly below the threshold of the sensor. rider (#13) - You are correct. A magnet will affect (and effect) a magnetic field. General comment - This is exactly why these types of sensors should be removed. So-called "intelligent" traffic signals are meant to optimize intersection throughput. They inherently prioritize cars over other modes. push-activated walk signals for pedestrians are even worse. The pendulum has swung too far, convenience is costing us livibility. The best way to restore livibility and modal equity is to go back to timed signals. Also, timed signals are more reliable as there are fewer wearable parts. I expect there are many who will disagree (not a few of them are likely traffic engineers)Recommended #22, Peter, the general motoring public responds negatively to anything "impeding" their intentions of criminally speeding just to catch the red. "Much of what has gone on in highway design and operation practice has represented activity without sufficient thought." Highway Safety, Design and Operation. Report 93-7. Subcommittee on Investigations and Review. Committee on Public Works, U.S. House of Representatives, July 1973. "The fallacy has been to cram 'good.Recommended I think this column is a great start, and I appreciate (I think we all did despite our sloppy use of language) that it's electrical induction rather than magnetism... BUT what about aluminum (Thanks matt picio) - the material of choice fo rthe overwhelming majority of rims? Shawn says "metal object" in the explaination, referrng to a wheel; I need this fleshed out a little.Recommended I rarely have an issue getting the loops to read me. Thanks Peter and PDOT for keeping them working for us!Recommended Much of my commute is in unincorporated Washington County, north of Hwy 26. I don't think I know of a single signal (where I am not going the direction that the intersection defaults to) where I can actually get one of these to trigger with even my steel touring bike. Most of the ones I have trouble with are in left turn lanes, but sometimes it's just in the straight travel lane. Some of them are loop sensors, and others are the camera sensors - both seem to have problems. So, who can I contact about these in particular? Who do I contact at Washington County?Recommended hemp22, I feel your pain. It just so happens that Wash. Co. just released a new website/form where you can request various road and transpo services... if you use it, report back and let us know how it goes.Recommended @matt #26 and JAT in Seattle #28 The basic physics of electromagnetic induction require a magnetic field, a conductor, and relative motion between the two. In the case of the sensor loops, the "motion" is supplied by the growing and collapsing of the magnetic field as the alternating electrical current in the loop regularly reverses direction. The conductor (your bike wheel or crankset) that you put into the field need not be ferrous - note that electrical transformers are wound with copper wire, for example. The magnetic coupling can be improved with ferrous material - those same transformers are often wound around an iron core. I have worked extensively with inductive proximity sensors on machinery - just a different packaging of the same concept - and I can assure you that a properly adjusted sensor does a dandy job of detecting aluminum within its sensing range. The requirement is that the object being sensed be conductive and thus able to develop its own magnetic field that will counter the field of the sensor and thus be detectable. Has anybody with clipless pedals tried out putting their shoe cleat on the sensor stencil? Just curious if that is enough metal to get a result.Recommended My experience is that local municipalities like Portland and Beaverton have done a great job of tuning their vehicle detectors to pick up bicycles. I rarely have trouble getting a vehicle detector to pick up my bike -- as long as it's not an ODOT facility! If it's a state highway (which can be an arterial like 82nd or Powell that just happens to be posted with a state highway number), then it's ODOT's jurisdiction and it's a crapshoot at best. Most of the various intersections where I might cross Scholls Ferry (a state highway), for example, fail to detect bicycles, even when stopped over the most sensitive part of the detector. Just another example where ODOT still needs some help "getting it".Recommended @buglas #31 i have the mtb shoes on today and will investigate it tonight on my journey home trial 1) control to figure out pattern trial 2) aluminum 29'er trial 3) human with mtb cleats (no bike) any other suggestions?Recommended buglas #31: I ride clipless with speedplay zero cleats, which are a large in terms of cleat size. I always try to stop with my bike on the right side of the loop. I clip out with my left foot 99% of the time, so that would have me put my cleat down somewhere inside of the loop. I am not sure if the amount of metal in my cleat makes a difference or not. I ride an aluminum/carbon bike with aluminum rims. But like I said earlier, I rarely have problems tripping sensors. I haven't ridden my steel bike with flat pedals enough this summer to make any comparisons at intersections that I frequent vs. the bike I normally ride.Recommended #26 matt picio - the issue of sensors is one point of debate. The transportation engineering community has treated pedestrians and people on bicycles poorly because the old way of doing things was to focus on vehicle throughput. Policies in Portland are much different today, where we are governed less by the Highway Capacity Manual, than by the Climate Action Plan, more emphasis from Jane Jacobs than Robert Moses. #27 Paul Tay - see above. Interesting Quotes from a historical context. In my previous life as a consultant, that's still the norm across the industry, yet things look different in Oregon and especially in Portland. #33 GlowBoy - Most of the ODOT signals within the City of Portland are operated by PBOT. Let us know if you're having trouble at Powell or 82nd Ave. The problem isn't the detectors, but the way we use them and how we coordinate the signals with adjacent intersections. If we're trying to maintain traffic flow on the major street (old highway), then you can expect some delays. If you're seeing that a lot, call it in. It's the same thing with the pedestrian push buttons at signals.Recommended buglas (#31) - That's exactly why a ferromagnetic metal is needed, because rubber tires insulate the bike (and cars) from ground and prevent the bike from being a conductor. In the case of cars, there are plenty of magnetic fields being generated which would affect the loop, like the alternator. Peter (#36) - So far, I haven't seen much evidence indicating that throughput is not still the primary goal of most of Oregon's transportation departments. Portland is the shining exception, but I think that even PBOT would balk a bit at going back to timed lights, or to removing the requirement to push a button to get a "walk" signal.Recommended #32 - Jonathan (re Washington County Operations web site request form) - I used this form to report an issue (not a traffic signal issue) when they recently repaved Bull Mountain road; I received a helpful response within a week.Recommended My limited experience is that relatively few intersections have the bike sensor symbols. And stopping on one side of the circular sensors and leaning the bike over has been relatively ineffective. I cross SE 82nd eastbound at Boise five nights a week and return westbound five mornings. There is a symbol heading east but none heading west. Also, the light stays green for a very short time, barely allowing me to cross the center line before going yellow.Recommended This push a button thing to be able to cross a street was new to me when I moved to Portland after having lived in big east coast cities, where peds always get the signals and cars can't turn right on red. I'm not sure why these rules aren't in effect here, especially in the denser pedestrian areas.Recommended Some lights only change for cars no matter where you place your bike. Plus, they favor the busier street's traffic and will NOT change without a car. Ever. Annoying, especially for compulsive rule-followers. Nothing like sitting an an intersection interminably at 0500 feeling like a dufus.Recommended Surely, no conscientious cyclist would ever run a red light, especially at a place like SE 82nd Ave., when no car is visible in either direction from Holgate to Powell. No one would ever do that.Recommended @matt #31 – Here’s a somewhat techie discussion of sensor loops with respect to bicycles. There is some discussion under Theory of Operation that addresses aluminum rims. Apparently steel rims can actually be harder to detect than aluminum ones.Recommended Oops! Fumbled that last link.Recommended Once more, in plain text:Recommended In Beaverton, I get a mixed bag with signals. Some trip and some don't. There's one in particular close to where I work that is seductively marked with a bicycle signal that doesn't work for me (Millikan Way and Murray). I am going to try the Wa Co request service form and see what happens.Recommended That's the understanding I get from Mr. Science (with all due respect) - Look for the little painted bike icon and sit on it and hope? Gee, thanks! :-) See, guys - what did I tell you about the general audience? Helmets! Do they work?Recommended Peter (#36), thanks for the clarification on ODOT vs PBOT maintenance of state highways in the city. I actually haven't had any problems on Powell or 82nd, just used those as examples of state highways in the city limits. At least off the top of my head, I can't think of any intersections within the Portland city limits where I have problems. I do have problems with Scholls Ferry (OR 210) -- at Raab (though I haven't tried this one lately), and at Laurelwood/Nicol (both directions, and tried recently). That last one is particularly frustrating because I ride it regularly and traffic is often low so I'm often waiting alone at the light -- or, worse, a car pulls up behind me but is too far back to trip the detector. Also, Canyon Rd (OR 8) at Canyon Lane never works for me either even though it's a major bike route. Jeff (#46) thanks for volunteering to request a fix at Murray/Millikan. I should have done that myself by now if I hadn't been so lazy. I've never gotten that one to work either (eastbound), and it's irked me for a long time because as you mentioned it has the bicycle symbol painted on it. In fairness to Beaverton, that's the only intersection I regularly use out there where I have any difficulty. Lots of other intersections that are minor for most cars but major for bikes -- Park and Cedar Hills, Western and 5th, Jenkins and Hocken, to name a few -- almost always detect flawlessly for me, even in the left turn lane.Recommended No need to experiment with taping magnets on your shoes etc. in search of a solution. It was already solved several years ago, by a Portland inventor, Scott Kauffman. See: This inexpensive device, called Green Light Trigger, was originally aimed at motorcycle riders, but is small enough to attach to a bicycle too.Recommended Maybe Scott will send you a post explaining why it works. buglas (#43) - Ah, thanks for the link, now I understand. This explains a lot - far more than the original article, and why some ferromagnetic metals *do* work better (nothing to due with the ferromagnetic properties, but with conductivity). And now I understand my mistake with thinking that a ground was required.Recommended Maybe some answers to your questions: If you see a bike symbol but no cut lines for the loop, the loop is probably under the top layer of asphalt, or is cast into the concrete surface. The detector loop is there, just can't be seen. Often the cut lines are covered by chip seal or slurry seal surface treatments. Look carefully for the shape of the cut lines as they may still be visible. On circle loops, place your wheels so that they bisect the circle loop at two points on the loop for best detection. This is easiest to do on the right or left side of the circle. For loops that don't detect bicycles, the sensitivity of the equipment can be adjusted. They often don't make them more sensitive because they will detect passing traffic in the oncoming adjacent lane. Or at least that's what the traffic signal technicians will tell you. Report these detector loops to the appropriate traffic department after you encounter them. Most agencies have a method of reporting listed on their web site.Recommended @LindaR: so we should buy fancy magnets to tape to the undersides of our bikes, not our shoes? Obviously there's plenty of debate about how much a permanent magnet can influence these induction loops anyhow, but I think it's reasonable to assume that we would do better the closer we can get them to the loop. So the shoe wins, whether that's just because we've taped a hunk of a conductive material to it, or because the field of the magnet actually works better than, say, a chunk of aluminum.Recommended #17- Wait, what? You can't make a u-turn within city limits? Uh-oh, guess I've violated that one a few times...Recommended Great article! (I just moved to Boulder, and have been seeing these bicycle markings everywhere.)Recommended I do agree that some sort of feedback, letting you know that you're detected by the loop (or whatever they end up using in the future) would be awesome. If you know the light will eventually change for you, you won't be tempted to run the light. I realize I'm pretty late to the discussion, but anyone else driven nuts by the sensor at the Naito/Oak intersection? (left off of Naito) I've been there a a frickin' Big Dummy (and if that's not a hunk of ferrous, conductive material, I don't know what is) yet still waited for a car to "escort" me through. Lately I've been sorely tempted to turn left against the light when there's no oncoming traffic, as I think my eyes and brain can sense danger headed my way better than a light can.Recommended Dolan - Signals & Street Lighting Staff will look into it and change the sensitivity. Engineers are going to design for what is safe and for what reasonable users are willing to do. Since we're hoping for the 8 to 80 crowd, we're working on a complete range of users. Yet we constantly get feedback from the general population, especially when we're designing something only to have it violated by the fearless. If folks aren't willing to wait for the signals to change, it becomes harder to convince other road users to appreciate the bicycle specific solutions because they seem over designed. It is a challenging concept and one that we're hoping Portland users will respect, so we can continue to design for the 25% mode split we'll have in 2030... including the ones that aren't as comfortable with the disregard approach.Recommended @Peter Thanks for checking it out. It's very difficult to tell if it's working properly as the cycle is frustratingly long, but I assure you I've sat through a complete cycle with my bike lined up over the sensor and ... nothing. However, we had a discussion about this sensor at work today and others are convinced it's working fine. I appreciate how hard it is to design for a variety of road users, especially considering that you are in many ways retrofitting a car-centric design to begin with. I think it's safe to say that the work is underappreciated. As far as being fearless is concerned, assuming good visibility, I'm not sure how turning left against a red left turn light with no oncoming traffic (not legal) is any different than turning left across a two lane highway with no oncoming traffic (legal, last I checked). One has a light saying it's ok, the other doesn't, but if there's no oncoming traffic, there's no oncoming traffic. Seems to me the light is mainly to give those turning left a chance to do so if traffic is too heavy to allow them right of way. Perhaps we should investigate using something like a flashing yellow left turn signal (you can turn, but must yield to oncoming traffic) at such intersections?Recommended It's worth exploring and we'll take a look. We can do a quick survey of how many people are doing that movement and make sure it warrants a treatment. If you have complaints like this at other locations, let us know.Recommended Some information I didn't find in the article that might be particularly helpful.. Most loop sensors do not have the bicycle mark painted on them, so it would be nice to know which part of each of the three types of sensors are most sensitive or likely to detect a bicycle. I also sometimes see where loop sensors are buried further ahead of the stop line, sometimes in the crosswalk, often with the next one a good bit farther back from the stop line. I don't want to be in the crosswalk on my red cycle, but also not too far back from the stop line. I have figured out how to make work correctly most of the sensor problems on routes I commonly ride. The following scenario has happened more than once, though, and can be a source of frustration: I stop at a loop sensor but the light skips me. During the wait for the next signal, an automobile stops behind me, but so far back it too does not trigger the sensor. We both get skipped again, and then I have to turn around and wave the motorist forward while pointing to the sensor on the ground, so we can both go on the 3rd cycle. In the grand scheme of things it may seem like a minor point, but I think information on how to operate loop sensors would do well to be included in the DMV's Driver's Manual. Probably not many would actually read it (I'm not convinced most drivers have even picked it up before), but at least the information is there and usable for the public at large.Recommended In Portland, we use circular loops. Not exactly like a dipole (as shown), but the same principles apply, stay on the edges of the detector and that will be the most disruptive to the magnetic field. The loops that are in the crosswalk are often due to a retrofit location, but they will work if they are set sensitive enough. If you're not getting detected, let the City of Portland or the agency you're in know.Recommended

We have taken some photos of "Clash of the Titans (2010)". They represent actual movie quality. I don't like the main actor. However the movie tells a different story which first I disliked and then I liked. Because I think this is exactly what director wanted. And if not, I do like it anyway. I do wish it was longer and things were a little different in already changed scenario, with different cast. But what done is done. No one says that no one else will do a better clash of the titans in future. "I went to this film, because I wanted to be entertained, and I was.""Why go to movies to nit-pick? It just wants to be entertaining.""Why take a film like this so seriously? It was just trying to entertaining."These above quotes are things you will read all over websites. They are the lowest common denominator of cop-out quotes defending a film that will be forgotten long before it even hits home video. EVERY MOVIE'S GOAL IS TO ENTERTAIN. DUH! What movie wasn't trying to be entertaing? Please find me this film that specifically wanted to not entertain. I would like to see it. JEEEEZ.Anyway, the new REMAKE of Clash of the Titans is pretty much one of the few films I've seen that truly lives up to the title remake. It's just as cheesy as the original Clash. The acting just as stilted to over-the-top. And the special effects are the real star. Sure, the original Clash(a childhood favorite of mine) was silly and cheesy, but guess what, so is the remake. It's got the same stupid cornball Greek mythology and bland characters. The original film had the benefit of many well regarded theatre actors slumming it in small parts of Greek gods, so it had an advantage of over the top fun acting.I'm not sure if the special effects are better in this version. They're more modern, but not really any more convincing. Design-wise they're fun to look at and cool, but I never really thought I was watching actual characters doing battle or interacting with characters of flesh and blood, but rather watching live actors duke it out with special effects. So, on that level it's the same as the original. Though, with the exception of the Kraken, I thought Harryhausen's designs were a bit cooler.There's no real drama or even story to this film. None of the characters really have an arch or a conflict of any interest. Seriously, they don't. It's all very slight and unassuming. And the heroic acting that follows from Sam Worthington is the same. He's fine in the film. Though, a dash of Hamlin's Perseus' charm would've gone a long way.Liam Neeson and Ralphe Fiennes showing up to even read the phone book would be more than enough with these type of stupid movies, so they can't be fouled for their particiaption in this film. They seem to be having fun and they're both very effective in their respective and totally silly roles.So, basically this film has a thin plot to hang special effects sequences on. It's retains most the elements of story from the original with minor changes that don't really "change" the point of the film or where it's going. I really had hoped this would've been better. I wanted to like it more on a real cinematic level, and not on the guilty pleasure cheese level of Michael Bay's original Transformers. I wanted this thing to be Jaws, Star Wars, or even Speed, but it's just time diverting, undemanding and curiously entertaining. It's no classic. I garuntee(though I could be wrong) it will be forgotten by most before next year.I appreciate the work and skill that took to put this thing together. I'm sure it will make a ton of money. I'm sure the CGI will be award worthy. But who cares? Big box office and 'kewl' special effects don't really mean much anymore. Everything is a hit and everything has 'kewl' special effects. So, when annoying peeps who utter with disdainn things like, "why take a film that just wants to entertain so seriously and nit-pick", just reply back, "BECAUSE I WASN'T ENTERTAINED, and my tastes have grown tired of the same thing every summer and want more from my entertainment." That's all.I'm not bashing the film. It's worth a rent. It's worth a buy if you admire the designers behind the CGI special effects. I found the thing entertaining, but not consuming. It's really the same thing with the original. I imagine if I was six and saw this thing for the first time I would be enthralled, and then fifteen years or so later laugh at how silly the thing I loved ultimately is. SO, this remake gets three stars for having cool monsters, cheesy but fun premise that made me smile, and bringing my inner six year old out to play. Now it's time to put the inner-kiddie to bed so I can watch a new Atom Egoyan film.PS: It's a Warner Blu Ray so the picture and sound is amazing, better than the theater. The special features are more sparse than I would have expected, but it mostly deals with special effects and in much depth. THere's a throw away puff piece about new action hero Sam Worthington that's just promotional, but if you're a fan of him, then you'll love it. That's it. No commentary unfortunately, that's my favorite special feature. I would've also liked a comparison piece about this and the original, kind of like they did on the remake of House on Haunted Hills DVD. It could've had a cool interview with Harryhausen and his thoughts on one of his babys being remake. Ho hum. (Synopsis) "The Clash of the Titans" is set in the Greek city of Argoswhere a war is about to explode between man and the gods. Persesus (SamWorthington) raised as a fisherman, but is actually a demi-god, becausehe is the bastard son of Zeus (Liam Neeson) is about to take on thegods after the death of his family at the hands of Hades (RalphFiennes). It is Persesus' destiny to rescue the city of Argos from theruthless rage of Hades and his Kraken monster. With nothing to lose,Persesus leads a band of soldiers on a quest to defeat the Kraken,which in turn prevents Hades from overthrowing his brother Zeus anddestroying mankind.(My Comment) This movie is the ultimate struggle for power that pitsman against creatures (giant scorpions, snake-haired Medusa, and theKraken), a king against gods, and gods against themselves, and thevictor wins the earth. The film was not shot using 3D technology, butconverted to the 3D format at the last minute to be trendy, and itreally shows. The 3D creatures are not improved at all, and thebackground scenery only looks like it is in HD format. I did not seeanything that came flying out from the screen as a real 3D movie wouldhave, except for the credits. Now I did like the CGI special effects,especially, the scene with Medusa. There are some good fight sceneswith Sam Worthington playing Persesus. The other actors were just soso. You can wait to see this movie, and better yet, see it in HD on TV.(Warner Bros., Run Time 1:58, Rated PG-13) (5/10) This review is from: Clash of the Titans [Blu-ray] (Blu-ray) Great Movie, watching it on blu-ray is amazing, the detail and clarity is great!Very happy with our purchase! When I saw preview for Clash of the Titans in theaters I could not wait to see it... ended up not seeing it in theaters and actually didnt end up seeing it until 2 days ago... i definitely was not disappointed witht the movie... a lot of action, great special effects, o.k. acting, and a good general story (maybe i thought the story was good because i could fill in the gaps with knowledge of the previous clash of the titans/greek mythology)... The blu-ray also looked AMAZING on my 42" 1080p LCD TV... a very good example of what HD can do... overall it is at least worth a rental... ill probably end up buying it... pretty decent movie! The trailers for this film made me bubble with eagerness and excitementfor what looked to be an excellent movie.I don't trust trailers anymore.What a ripoff! The special effects are murky, the acting boring, andthe plot about as uneven as Nicolas Cage's recent acting record ascompared to ten years ago. Now that's pretty uneven. I wanted to carewhen a character would get impaled on a scorpion's stinger, but I foundmyself incapable of feeling for characters we had no relation to orunderstanding of. The only reason I would ever care if some Greek dudegot obliterated would be if he had a cool hairdo. Rewrite thescreenplay so as to be free of campyness (to an extent of course) andgive me a character that I can be sympathetic for, not some snottydemigod. Get a grip. If you have a Friday night to kill, try"Gladiator", "300", or Lord of the Rings. Skip this mess. New sandals, old hat, Clash of the Titans is an enjoyable remake, butthe original only made in 1981 doesn't seem that long ago. The 2010 version strength is that you don't see sandals, Gods andmonster adventure films much these days(unless they are made for TV).However, you cant help but think why remake Clash of the Titans whenJason and the Argonauts would have been more advantageous. Sadly the score is pretty forgettable but the effects are great, minusa disappointing CGI Medusa. The old world feel is captured perfectlycredit to director of photography Peter Menzies Jr. the locations arebreathtaking, Sam Worthington is a reliable as the an action hero buthis character is underdeveloped. There are some great performances byMads Mikkelsen and heavy weights Liam Neeson and Ralph Fiennes. Therest are a mixed bag, yet Gemma Arterton is startling first-class as tois the almost unrecognisable Jason Flemyng as Calibos. However, ifyou've seen the original, Calibos like Perseus lacks characterisation. Apart from a few tweaks, director Louis Leterrier's version retreadsthe first. While it exceeds it predecessor in some parts, thankfullythere's no owl, it includes the Sheikh Sulieman; Lo; scorpions; Pegausand flying monsters; in places it fall short of the original -TheMedusa scene;the training of Perseus and Calibos role.Nevertheless, it's a fun adventure film and I'd happily watch aninevitable sequel. This review is from: Clash of the Titans (DVD) Like many others, I was a fan of the earlier version of Clash of the Titans. This modern version is plagued by all the same problems that seem to be a part of today's movie making: the makers let the special effects dominate the movie, and dismiss everything else. I loved this movie for the special effects, and it is worth watching, and even owning, just for that alone. The characters, the monsters, the battle scenes, the gods, etc. were all worth the price of admission. My favorite part is that the winged stallion Pegasus is jet black, and has a herd of pure white winged mares. But I would have liked a little more story. Another of the problems this movie has is its' near complete lack of color. Everything is in muted shades of bronze, brown, black, gray and cream. It totally amazes me that today, with fantastic fabrics in every color of the rainbow easily available, no one in Hollywood seems to think to use them. For all the colors this movie has, it might just as well have been filmed in black and white. Not to mention that many of the scenes, like the confrontation with Medusa, are so very dark that it is hard to make out the action. Directors today seem bogged down by "historical accuracy" and "true to life". But this story is not a history lesson, it is a fable. The original Clash of the Titans remembered that it was a fairy tale, used beautiful fabric and bright colors, had characters in it that looked like they bathed, and had bright backgrounds filled with light that let the audience see what was going on. With the modern version, I felt like I should run it through a computer, and add color and light to it. As it is, the heros are brown, the monsters are brown and the backgrounds are brown. Moreover, the makers of this movie did nothing to tell even a bare bones story. There is no reason in this movie for Perseus to rescue Andromeda, or to risk his life for the city---he is a stranger to the princess, and the people of the city have not exactly been friendly to him. He is imprisoned, tortured and then forced into taking on the quest. He should have taken off the first chance he got. The idea that he has some vague idea of getting back at the gods is not sufficient. This movie is worth watching, with fantastic special effects, but I would have loved to see how much better it could have been with bright colors, more light and a better story. This is one of those movies of which I had high expectations as ablockbuster. sorry folks, this is no blockbuster, it is nowhere as goodas 300 and the recent Percy Jackson and Lightning Thief scores for me awhole lot better in terms of interpretation of Greeks mythology.Sam Worthington as Perseus is likable but thats about it. He is no SeanBean and doesn't deliver a strong enough character performance for mefor a 'demi God' and the women throughout are models rather thanactresses delivering good lines.The opening boat scene is intriguing enough but the first let down isseeing the haircut of Perseus on the beach as a child, trying toconnect where he was and what he was doing, it didn't wash for me. Histaking to the Argos King and Queen and the confrontation inside thePalace was bizarre.I agree with comments about the Krakken and the Medusa, they could havemade more of Medusa and exploited more the real myth of Perseus andMedusa. My 11 year old son liked the film and things like Zeus givingPerseus the coin to enter the Hades underworld (same as in PercyJackson) was interesting.I don't say the film wasn't interesting or entertaining and there weresome great scenes but I didn't go to see a mix of King Kong meets Lordof the Rings. Too much wizardry for me and the logic of Greek mythologybecame lost. Too many corny lines, poor lines, too much emphasis on theaction without really connecting it to the story.Certainly not a film to see in 3D. burp... yeah, it seems like a rude way to begin a review... yet when this nasty stench comes your way, you'll think of the cracken belching and blowing the stink at you. i find this helpful, and if you do not, it's cool, but you lose the time, and the money. If it were possible to remake a film that was more campy, more cornythan the original, this movie accomplished that in spades.Aside from great special effects (the film's only real attraction) andA-list stars, the final product is a loud, tiring film that one is gladto see come to an end.As campy as the original was -- also with A-list talent andstate-of-the-art special effects for its time -- at least it had astoryline that was not too rushed so as to get to more action and morespecial effects, characters you care about because they were somewhatdeveloped and enough dialogue to keep even the mythological noviceinformed as to who the characters are, why they are important and whatmakes them heroic.SPOILER ALERT (if you know nothing about the myth of Perseus) Mybiggest disappointment was the Medusa sequence, which in the life ofPerseus is the climax of the myth. Perseus was born to kill Medusa andbring back her head. Here, it is just another fast-paced actionsequence with no sense of climax or importance to the story other thanhe has to do it to get to the next awesome special-effects laden actionscene. End possible SPOILERSAll in all, if you are a lover of Greek mythology, see the original,and try to forget that Pegasas was ridden by Bellerophon, not Perseus(he had the winged sandals). If you want a mindless action film thatcould just as well have been Jason Bourn in ancient Greece, see thismovie. This review is from: Clash of the Titans [Blu-ray] (Blu-ray) I Love This Update Version Of This Movie? Sam Worthington Is Very Good As Well? Story Line There Are Some Changes, But The Show Was Not Bad At All. Special effects are just OK and that is not enough to make up for an insipid story. Do not buy. This movie is garbage. I consider myself a tolerant movie goer. I almost never walk out of a movie or turn my DVD player off before a film is finished. I usually give movies a chance to redeem themselves in the end. The last time I wanted to walk out on a movie was Batman Forever. This movie I turned off about 20 minutes in. First of all, it has absolutely nothing to do with the original, a movie I grew up loving as a child. Secondly, it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual Greek myth it is based on. And thirdly, it is full of plot holes and inconsistencies as to make the story a farce of itself.As you are watching you are forced to wonder things like, how does Perseus manage a buzz cut in Ancient Greece when everyone else in the movie has authentic hair? Why do the gods sit around wearing shiny armor when they are . . . you know, gods? Why do the humans build a gigantic statue of Zeus and then, in rebellion, destroy it? After all, aren't they just destroying their own work? How does Perseus mother know she has been raped by Zeus when he transforms back into god form . . . did they have photos of him somewhere? How does Perseus' father survive a lightning bolt? And why does he develop superhuman strength afterward, enabling him to lift a coffin with his wife and baby in it? The nonsense goes on and on. And I can't get over the whole man vs. god thing. It's ridiculous and has nothing to do with how any ancient person would ever think. Nor can I imagine how any society could try to kill the gods, when the gods give them the air to breathe, food to eat, water to drink, etc. The original film understood the myths and portrayed ancient Greek mentality much more accurately. This movie is just garbage, plain and simple. I thought they did a fairly good job of remaking the movie. I enjoyed it, but (stupid as this sounds) the lead actor's extremely short hair ruined the movie. It did not fit in with the fantasy of that period. Everyone has shared their opinion of the movie, but I don't understand the growing trend for Blu-Ray's to be released with a DVD and digital copy. I could maybe understand the Digital Copy, but why the DVD? If someone is buying the Blu-Ray, why would they EVER watch the DVD version? They charge $16.99 for the DVD itself, but its thrown in this package as filler. At least have a product version where its only the Blu-Ray and sell it for less. Its a waste of materials and resources to include it with the Blu-Ray. Thats like throwing in a Ford Focus if you buy a Mercedes. Perseus (Sam Worthington) was found by a fisherman in the middle of the sea when he was only a child. Raised by the fisherman, Perseus was treated like a son despite his mysterious beginnings. But when his adoptive family is killed by Hades (Ralph Fiennes) in the midst of the Greek city Argos' war against Zeus (Liam Neeson), Perseus finds out that he's a demigod, the son of Zeus. Rather than joining the gods in their war with the humans, Perseus joins the humans in an effort to find out how destroy Hades' Kraken, a legendary destroyer of cities, and in turn seek revenge for the death of his family. I'm fairly certain that I'm not the only one who, when this went into production, wondered why they chose to remake a 1981 film rather than creating a movie based on the hugely popular God of War video game series. I guess part of my reticence to this idea has to be my general disinterest in remakes, but at the same time one has to admit that video game movies generally fare worse than remakes as a rule. Then the casting started poring in for this remake/reimagining, and I started to get a bit excited about it. Sam Worthington proved his mettle as the best part of Terminator: Salvation and did a great job in Avatar, and anytime you have Liam Neeson and/ or Ralph Fiennes in a movie, especially together (they're first time on screen together since Schindler's List) you're most likely up for a good time. To fill out the brilliance on screen, Louis Leterrier was set to helm the project having done movies that have ranged from merely good (Transporter, The Incredible Hulk) to transcendent (Unleashed or Danny the Dog). Needless to say I was more than slightly interested to see what this would all lead to.While you might expect this film to completely re-imagine the film, but rather even down to the special effects the films has a much more old school feel to it. This is both one of the strengths of the movie and a detriment to the movie as well. While it utilizes all of the special effects at it's disposal, it still lumbers like an unweildy beast at times. The mix of CGI with the look of practical effects doesn't look as good as other movies that have come out recently, and other creations don't mix well with the practical creations. Overall, though, Leterrier knows how to work an action sequence, and the action really does work, even if the ending is slightly anticlimactic. The most disappointing aspect of the movie though is the 3-D transfer which doesn't appear to be in 3-D except the very beginning of the movie, other than that the cost of the 3-D surcharge is asking a lot of viewers, and proves just to be nothing more than a cash making gimmick by Warner Bros.With all of the great actors that were involved in this movie, the acting is strangely subpar. Ralph Fiennes hams it up as god of the underworld Hades as does Jason Flemyng as former King of Argos Arcisius, and Liam Neeson isn't given much to do as uber-god Zeus. Sam Worthington is surprisingly flat as the demigod Perseus. Most of the time Worthington appears to be bored or just not even trying. Of everyone on the cast the most believable actors are Pete Postelthwaite as Perseus adoptive father Spyros, and his demise early on in the movie is truly lamentable, and Gemma Arterton as Io, the ageless beauty who helps lead Perseus to his destiny of defeating the gods.I'm not saying the movie's horrible, this isn't Transformers 2, but it's also not Avatar either. All in all it's still a fun movie worth a look-see, but it's definitely not the best that the cast and crew could possibly have to offer. I enjoyed myself at the theater for this one (even if I was annoyed by paying the 3-D surcharge for nothing), and I suggest you give it a shot. You might find yourself slightly disappointed, but you'll probably still have fun as well.3/5 There is plenty to say about Clash of The Titans. Is ithistorically/mythologically accurate? Well who cares for one...I meanit never was set out to retell in accurate details the religiousbeliefs of ancient Greece and if you're going to see it for that thenyou need your head examined. Films like this especially were made forpure and utter entertainment. That means if they take liberties withfamiliar characters or legends they are simply trying to put a new spinon things instead of dragging out the same old bit. The story for Clashof The Titans exists but barely matters and is only a surface storybecause this film thrives on absolutely mind blowing special effects,brutal and impressive battles and red blooded male heroes. Underdifferent circumstances this style of film could really belly up andturn out to be boring and over shot but instead this recipe works wholeheartedly for this film. You will sit there and your jaw will drop atthe incredible effects and battles which there are a few key moments inthe film that are nothing short of stunning. I did not see this in 3Dand don't particularly wish to mostly because I think the 3D for thisfilm was forced in at the last minute and the special effects areamazing enough with cheap gimmickry.A star has risen...Sam Worthington had an incredible 2009 havingstarred in Terminator 4, and of course the biggest film of all timeAvatar. And now 2010 gets kicked off with the first really big flick ofthe mid-Season blockbusters. I don't find Worthington is really starstatus...yet. I don't dislike him I just find him a little dullsometimes. He has an intensity about him but its a quite intensity, andnot quiet like Bruce Willis but truly under the radar and that couldhurt him. Still he leads the cast well and pulls off the underdog herovery well. Rising as a Hollywood legend Liam Neeson plays the godamongst gods Zeus. Its not a huge role but he definitely commandsscreen presence and instantly ups the ante on the cast. He is terrific.Ralph Fiennes is brilliant as Hades. He does an amazing job and theonly thing I can say about the role is that I wish there was more to itand I wish there was more scenes between him and Neeson as enemies andbrothers at odds. He is a terrific villain but sadly underused. AlexaDavalos is lovely but mostly a third tier character with little depthto her. The supporting cast that is Worthington's small army areterrific but mostly undeveloped characters meant to support only.Director Louis Leterrier is becoming a force in Hollywood. He didnearly the same thing with The Incredible Hulk reboot in 2008...greatspecial effects, decent story, all entertainment. However he did greataction and a good story for Danny The Dog (his first film) which Igreatly recommend. He was ideal for directing this. There were somedefinite mistakes in the film. First of all the most impressivecreature, battle and special effect was the incredible build up andappearance of the Kraaken. The unfortunate part is how incredibly fastit is defeated and vanishes. You want to pause and rewind just to seethe creature. They spent just a little bit too much time on thescorpion battles (as incredibly cool as they are) and not enough timeon the final battles. Clash of The Titans could have been a Lord Of TheRings sized epic but instead they put it together for sheerentertainment at a reasonable length and cut out what would have madeit story based. Unfortunate perhaps but the entertainment is non stopand you won't be disappointed but please don't see this withexpectations of mythologically enhanced story. 8.5/10 This review is from: Clash of the Titans [Blu-ray] (Blu-ray) Its not worth the price of admission. Buy the original and see how it was suppose to be. Humans battle CGI in "Clash of The Titans", both equally onedimensional.The film is mostly terrible, but there are some good things here. RaminDjawadi's score drums up excitement, there is one good action scene andthe film manages to avoid being camp and silly, a hard task for thesesword and sandal fantasy movies. See Brad Pitt's "Troy" to see howwrong this production could have gone.The film's portrayal of "Gods" and "Mythical Creatures" lacks power.Peter Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" movies weren't great, but Jacksonknew how to hype up his beasts and wizards with some some good olefashion bombast. When Jackson's wizards and sorcerers raised theirvoices, you wet your pants. In "Clash of The Titans", you're countingthe seconds till they shut up.7/10 Â The target audience for this film has long abandoned cinema infavour for interactive media. So who is responsible for this film'sprofit? The middle aged and the elderly.

On that Nobel Prize: Don’t do it Barack… Have to say it was a bit of a surprise to hear Barack Obama had won a Nobel Peace Prize… Ulster’s most famous Tory blogger Shane Greer asks why they are giving out the prize for hope… Apparently the nominations closed 11 days after he took office.. David Steven reckons the audacious thing to do would be just to say No… Adds: Will was up at the crack of dawn this morning and saw the live feed… it was controversial from the get go... Tags: International Bit of a joke since Kissinger got it. “…why they are giving out the prize for hope… Why not? They certainly gave the literature award for hope in 1938 when Pearl S. Buck, who had not theretofore written anything worthwhile was the laureate, perhaps in an attempt to encourage her to try harder. Unfortunately that hope remained unfulfilled. Obama’s award certainly seems odd to say the least but, what the heck, if Kissinger, Sadat and Trimble were worthy recipients then Obama’s nice smile alone would be sufficient for him to qualify. IMHO, Josh Marshall of talkingpointsmemo.com says it right: ‘hyper ‘normal history’ rather than dark aberration.” Mairead Coorrigan has said it was a bad decision. Some said the same about her. Mick Fealty would be a better choice this year as he has tried reconciliation and could do with the loolah for his peace building initiative. Hitler was once nominated for the prize for not invading Austria. The wisest words on this prize have been uttered by Taliban and Islamic Jihad leaders. They see through the Scanidavian lapdogs who, lest we forget suplied arms to both sides in the Iran Iraq war even as they pretended to mediate. The BBC comments when I checked them were all negative though of ocurse world leaders/lapdogs have weighed in saying how wise it was. No harm to Obama but the manner of this just serves to completely devalue the award, even more. “Bit of a joke since Kissinger got it. ” Anti-semite (JOKING) Gerry I take it your reference to lapdogs is joke? It has a quaint 1980s Workers’ Revolutionary Party air to it. You really need some “runningdogs” in their and also “petit-bourgeois” if possible to get the full retro feeling. Some previous deserving winners:- George Catlett Marshall Martin Luther King Jr. Willy Brandt Lech Walesa Desmond Mpilo Tutu Elie Wiesel Mikhail Sergeyevich Aung San Suu Kyi Mikhail Sergeyevich *Gorbachev* I mean My thoughts: There are two reasons he got it 1. He’s NOT George W Bush 2. He constantly apologizes for America Show me what he did then I’ll judge whether he deserves it…….. Ok then, it’s a bad decison the guy hasn’t done anything yet. He might deserve it later but no way has he earned it yet – we shouldn’t be rewarding potential It would be highly ironic if he ended up using nukes during his presidency, wouldn’t it? “It would be highly ironic if he ended up using nukes during his presidency, wouldn’t it?” Not just ironic, pretty disastrous all round. Who do you think would be on the receiving end though? Nothing could be as undeserving as Trimble getting the Nobel prize (and keeping all the dosh to himself). Obamas not the worst to get it. Brit: “Not just ironic, pretty disastrous all round. Who do you think would be on the receiving end though?” … Judging by his performance so far, probably the U.S. Dollar. Based on his almost first year in office President Obama deserves the prize .During that short period he has done more than the previous incumbent did in 8 wasted , warmongering years Meanwhile back at warmongering central i.e GOP Headquarters former Presidential candidate Senator John McCain is gung ho to send another 60,000 troops to Afghanistan . Just as well Obama was elected or we might already be looking at a devastated Iran with half the world’s oil supplies on fire nd 25 mile long queues outside petrol stations Meanwhile the Afghan Army with 70% of it’s officer corp recruited from the Tajik minority (23%) and with the Pushtun (46%) majority divided into pro and anti Karzai factions the traditional enmity between Tajiks and Pushtun’s is amking recruitment difficult and training even more so . And then there is the Taliban and the other ethnic minorities . A graceful withdrawal is what’s needed . Let the Afghans hang their American scalps alongside their Russian and British ones and let them find ‘democracy’ in their own time . I think it’s all a ploy to hide the dismal failure of the climate talks in Bangkok. Come back, George. All is forgiven. It wasn’t your fault after all. Brian MacAodh’s suggestion that one of the reasons Obama won the award, “that he was not George Bush”, was also suggested by a BBC correspondent on the Radio 4 six o’clock news. I have no argument but that is as good a reason as any to make him worthy with the slight feeling of being just a wee bit miffed as I have not been George Bush since before the end of WWII and haven’t been recognised in consequence one little bit. Gerry Mander is pretty spot on with his observations on the political nature of the Nobel awards, they are to honour those who serve the advance of Western capitalism or to steal the glory from genuine sacrifice and altrusim so that it shines on the Nobel Institute and helps kosher up its image of feigned objective concern for the progress of mankind. The award of the prize to the NI “Peace people” trio in 1976 neatly fulfilled both objectives in that it served the British and the false image of the objectivity and altruism fostered made for feely-good publicity around the world (for a time). The Lenin Peace Prize served as a mirror image for the Soviet Bloc. As a footnote to which I might add that the only joint winner of both the Nobel and Lenin peace prizes was a former Chief-of-Staff of the IRA, Séan MacBride, the son of Maud Gonne and whose father, Major John MacBride was executed by British firing squad for his role in the Easter Rising in 1916. MacBride won both prizes as a result of his role as UN commissioner for Namibia. The Soviets had a policy supporting liberation movements in order to keep the West preoccupied and create division and dissent in its domestic populace and the West needed to be seen to oppose apartheid and support a fully democratic South Africa in order to advance its own exploitation throughout the rest of Africa, apartheid proving inefficient, counter-productive and terribly bad for the image., iliteracy, and the size of the country are all working against it., illiteracy, and the size of the country are all working against it. I think it’s to act as a bulwark against the horrible neo-cons stateside and to discourage Obama’s administration team from even thinking about any additional belligerent actions of sorts whatsoever. It’s a burden to America in as much as it tries to muzzle its war machine and instead increase the support for effective global diplomacy there. Also gives him more global credibility that might boost his stalling domestic reforms back home stateside, as the more magic fairy dust about him can only help his chances to see off that truculent and very crude opposition. Definitely seems too soon but perhaps he deserves it in a way that just being black and the President of the USA merits it alone – he did it. This is it, this is it, ops…sorry that was Jacko. Erm…I meant to say: Yes We Can!. Israel is currently, and has been for some time, the greatest threat to world peace, and indeed the West’s oil supply. Previous US policy has been to placate Israel for fear of what they may do. Current policy is to ensure they’re incapable of doing what we fear they may do. QED. “We have no solution, you shall continue to live like dogs, and whoever wishes may leave, and we will see where this process leads”. Moshe Dayan The award is an embarrassing accolade from sychophantic Europeans who wish for the demise of the USA. Obama’s their man! That has rather killed off the possibility of any US action against North Korea or Iran. Kim has the bomb, that killed off the possibilty a while ago. Plus Uncle Sam wouldn’t be keen to tackle a nation where theres one soldier to every 20/25 people. All those mines along the 37th parallel will have to suffice. Hey, let’s give the guy a break, last week he was a big-time loser, this week he’s a winner. Just think of all his accomplishments: - increased troop levels in Afghanistan, and more on the way (if he has any sense) - drone attacks increased against Al Qaeda and the Taliban - Gitmo will not be closed by January - creation of Rendition Lite - has retained indefinite detention without trial of terror suspects On the negative side, however, he has: - let himself be jerked around by Iran. - betrayed Honduran democracy - let the Iranian pro-democracy opposition wither on the vine - poked Poland and the Czech Republic in the eye - insulted US allies, UK and Israel - etc, etc It’s interesting to note that the Nobel Committee is now attempting to geld Obama by this award, making it more difficult for him to take any radical action in Afghanistan, Iran or Korea. A discussion on the merits of the invasions/occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan is a little bit off topic and I’ve indicated my views on those matters on more than one occasion. I’m not sure that term “warmonger” (used by Greenflag but used pretty widely in certain political circles) is a meaningful description. Rather it is a meaningless pejorative like neo-con. Assuming we are all non pacifists then we are all prepared to support a war in certain circumstances. Whilst we’re on the subject of “warmonger”, who said this:- “The warmongers in London and Washington, aided by the liars in the controlled media, are busy whipping up a war fever against Iran using the same techniques of deceit they used against Iraq. .” Can you guess who it is yet? Brian Aodh , ‘As for McCain calling for 60K troops…it was of course the General in charge of Afganistan who called for the troop raise. The number was closer to 40K.’ I’ve never known generals to ask for less troops or equipment in a war .It doesn’t matter who appoints them. ‘ McCain, as a former military man, simply stated that Obama should give the general what he needs to meet the objectives.’ ? ‘There should be no half-measure in Afganistan. Either we make a full push to achieve our goals, or we get out completely.’ Again what are the goal/goals ? The initial goal was to arrest Osama Bin laden and get the Taliban out of power . The first goal has yet to succeed and the second looks like an own goal For several years the late Robert McNamaraspent copious hours showing slides to his fellow politicians and LBJ showing how the Vietnam war was being won and that the addition of just another 50,000 troops or whatever would complete the job . The USA was a lot less bankrupt back then than it is now . As the dollar drops on world currency markets the USA simply cannot afford to fight . McCain shoots first and asks questions later . His picking of Sarah Palin was another ‘brilliant decision’ As for Iran and North Korea ? Ton itself over the increasing economic gap between it an both South Korea and China to it’s north . Iran will eventually learn the hard way that being ruled by God has been tried before and failed and will always fail The less Obama involves himself with those States the better . Let the UN deal with Afghanistan as a protectorate until such time as that state is ‘ready’ for democracy . All Obama has to do is to promise any State in the region that if they are seen to harbour Al Quaida forces then the USA will take action against such forces and impose economic sanctions against such states . Well done the Nobel Committee And well done President Obama for donating his 1.5 million dollar prize to charity . Who said Trimble -Not I said the greedy pig .” Plenty of other US presidents have put pressure on the Israelis to do various things, involving peace treaty’s/overtures with/towards arab states and or Palestinians, including the lovely Nixon, Clinton and amazingly even Bush W. I hope Obama can pressure the Israelis, as Bibi’s government certainly need a shove in the right direction. Ultimately the US (and the rest of the international community) cannot force a peace between Israel and the Palestinians any more than the Irish, American and British governments could force the NI republicans/loyalists to ceasfire and the Unionist and Nationalist communities to come to a roughly workable accord. The problem in Israel is that even if their government was pushed by the US, there is no partner for peace in Gaza as Hamas are Islamist, anti-semitic, totalitarians who would destroy Israel and perhaps commit a genocide on its Jewish populaton if they had the opportunity. “Israel is currently, and has been for some time, the greatest threat to world peace, and indeed the West’s oil supply.” On what basis do you contend that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace? Its a small country that occasionally fights short defensive wars (without using nukes, chemical weapons or targetting civillians) and has a history of giving up land won in those wars? It is a stable democracy under the influence of the West and, in particular, the US, subject to the rule of law with a governemtn subject to the scrutiny of the people and an Army governed by the laws of war. Dont you think a nuclear theocracy whose leader speaks to God and has declared his wish to destroy Israel might be a threat? Or Islamists getting hold of Pakistani Nukes? ?” Democratic Afghanistan has only ever been “a nice to have”. No doctrine of humanitarian intervention and no serious supporter of the invasion justified on the grounds that the country was not democratic. But the next two are nearer to the truth. The war against violent Islamism cannot be won purely by military victories and in one part of the globe, it has to be fought on numerous fronts and battle grounds both military and otherwise. But Afghanistan and the border region is one of the key battlegrounds and it is vital to inflict as much harm and damage on AQ and those parts of the Taliban who share its agendas. Another key objective is to preserve or promote the security of the Afghan people from the Taliban. Clearly these two objectives are likely to overlap in terms of practical actions on the ground. Troops are deployed there to kill and engage in lethal combat. The US, UK and other invovled states have a duty to protect their troops so far as is reasonable and in any event acheiving our objectives is likely to require more troops. There are some similarities with Vietnam. It was a long war, far away with US troops involved. But there are many many differences around the nature of the Communist Vietamese regime, its level of popular support and the kind of threat that regime posed to its own people, the wider area and the security of the globe. RS you seem to get some sort of satisfaction from the military power of the North Korean regime. It puts me in mind of something Orwell said:- “I am interested in the psychological processes by which pacifists who have started out with an alleged horror of violence end up with a marked tendency to be fascinated by the success and power of Nazism.” Brit , ‘It (Vietnam ) was a long war, far away with US troops involved. ‘ So Afghanistan is not far away and US troops are not involved ? The Afghan War has gone on for 8 years and it’s no nearer to being won than it was 8 years ago . ‘The war against violent Islamism cannot be won purely by military victories ‘ So you win it by inflicting large scale ‘collateral ‘ damage ‘ ‘The US, UK and other invovled states have a duty to protect their troops so far as is reasonable’ ‘It (Vietnam ) was a long war, far away with US troops involved.’ They were the similarities Greenie, not the differences. “So you win it by inflicting large scale ‘collateral ’ damage ’” No serious military battles have ever been won without collateral damage, which means killing innocent people (though not intending or desiring this outcome) and killing ones own troops. ” So Isolationism and a “Realist” foreign policy is the way forward? States looking only at their immediate short term self interest and keeping out of the affairs of other states no matter how genocidal and dangerous to the rest of the world. So are the interventions in Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone and (dare I say it) the Falklands ideological wars to be avoided. Should the US or the rest of the world community just let AQ build up a base and acquire nukes, or sit by and watch the next time a Rwanda style genocide is in progress? Would it be unworthy of me to mention that even within eleven days of taking office, on the day after his inauguration in fact, Obama had signed the executive orders for air strikes on civilian targets in Afghanistan and Pakistan thus making himself a war criminal? I guess it would, so I’d better not mention it then. Whatever happened to John Hume setting up a charitable trust to dispurse his prize money to charities in Northern Ireland? Has this ever taken place and what about David Trimble – did he just pocket the money? P o’Neill, Yes.He pocketed it.On principle,you understand. Ian, I’m not usually one to defend Obama, but your comment ‘Obama had signed the executive orders for air strikes on civilian targets’ is absolutely ludicrous and reflects a warped view of the civilised world and the barbarism of AQ and the Taliban. Air strikes were ordered against AQ and/or Taliban military targets, not civilians. The fact that these people hid among the civilian population is not the responsibility of ISAF. ‘RS you seem to get some sort of satisfaction from the military power of the North Korean regime.’ Brit you are less intuitive than you think you are. What on earth has that Orwell quote got to do with anything? Anyone ever told you, you think too much? What an excellent editorial from the Washington Post. Hits the nail right on the head. Neda of Iran should have been awarded the prize, not the vague, faceless person alluded to in Obama’s acceptance speech, although the penultimate paragraph of the speech was very good: ‘this. “Brit you are less intuitive than you think you are.” I’m happy to take your word for that. “What on earth has that Orwell quote got to do with anything?” Well if you’ve read Orwell’s essays written during WW2 and in particular his writings on British pacifists, who he famousley described as “objectively pro-fascist”, then you will see why the current of left-liberal thought around the Euston Manifesto with which I am associated might seek to invoke the ghost of Orwell in their arguments against the “peace movement”. A “peace movement” parts of which support the actions of HAMAS, Hezbollah and the “resistance” in Iraq. You are in the anti-imperialist camp and seem to be some sort of de-facto pacifist but your description of North Korea seemed, wrongly no doubt, to include just the smallest bit of grim satisfaction that the US would not dare to f@ck with the nuclear power. “Anyone ever told you, you think too much?” Yes, plenty and I didn’t try to argue with them. Brit im not pacifist committed or de-facto and from your writing it seems your are in the ‘imperialist camp’ if I am anti-imperialist. I suppose that means im ‘kitsch’ eh? “Brit im not pacifist committed or de-facto and from your writing it seems your are in the ‘imperialist camp’ if I am anti-imperialist. I suppose that means im ‘kitsch’ eh?” The kitsch terminology was invented by Sean Matgamna’s Alliance for Workers Liberty. The AWL is a Marxist group which, almost uniquely on the Hard left, strongly condemns Islamism and “Left” anti-Semitism and proposes a two-state solution to I/P. I find “kitsch” quite amusing but other terms include the “Stoppers”, Sharia Socialists or for the Respect types Strasserites (named after the German “LeftWing” Nazi and proponent of a Red-Brown alliance). I oppose imperialism and colonialism but I differ from the kitsch anti-imperialist left on at least three major points:- In my view most of recent (post-Cold War) US Foreign Policy is not solely or even principally explainable as imperialism or neo-imperialism. Imperialism is not the worst thing in the world – violent Islamism, totalitarianism, proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and the overlap between them represent the major political threat to humanity. It is not only the “West” or the US or Israel who are potential imperialists. The actions of Iran, China, Russia and Syria are probably more purely imperialist. More specifically I don’t think the imperial-colonial paradigm is a particularly useful one to employ to understand the conflicts in NI or I/P. I am confused by your stance on political violence. You condemn the actions of Israel in Gaza or the US in Iraq on the basis that innocents died, and were likely to die irrespective of the lack of intention to target and kill civilians. You have suggested that it is only OK to fight a war if you are fairly sure that innocents wont die. That’s not a philosophically pacifist position but a de facto one as modern warfare and use of military might would, in practice be rendered useless to any state which adhered to such a policy. If you’re not a pacifist is your position that all violence resulting in the deaths of civilians is equally wrong ranging from deliberate mass murder of civilians (per the Holocaust or the Armenian or Rwandan genocides), to failing to take proper precautions but not targeting civilians (what Israel and the US stand accused of) to taking proper precautions but inevitably killing civilians (what Israel claims it did/does). I cannot see what ethical system would come to such a conclusion? Brit I’ve noticed you love to ladel your posts with various references to junctures on the political spectrum, usually saving your animus for those on the ‘liberal-left’. I again notice your preponderance for ‘anti-semitism’ and where it may raise its head. I don’t think anyone on here has ever suggested American foregin policy is ‘soley’ following a ‘neo-imperialism’ model. But to deny some of it is (and the question is how much) is pie in the sky. No doubt Russia and China are in it for themselves as well, but your hated ‘left-liberals’ on this site don’t hail from there, and so any semblance of imperialism neo or otherwise emanating from countries they have an attachment to, namely the west, is right to be pointed out and condemned, even more so than nations on the other side of the globe. You may not think the ‘imperial-colonial paradigm’ (and I gotta tell ya Brit, you sound like an undergraduate politics student) is ‘useful’. those of us who realise ireland was Britains colonial laboratory (from which the most recent incarnations of trouble can be traced to) and the situation in I/P conflict also stems from the imperial mentality which gave us the likes of the Balfour Declearation and Storrs ‘little loyal jewish ulster’, which viewed an indigenous people as ‘less than’ and were happy to give others their land. Furthermore you mistake my sentiment, i never said ‘it is only OK to fight a war if you are fairly sure that innocents wont die.’ I ridiculed the attempt by certain sides in a war to present themselves as morally superior to those they are fighting. Finally the likes of the Armenian holocaust and the holocaust of ww2 and rwandan genocide are worse than your other two points. But there is little moral difference between attacking civilians and dropping a daisycutter or launching a hellfire into a built-up area with the full expectation that civilians will die. RS the reason I criticise those on the Hard and Liberal Left is because I am a Left Liberal myself. I am a social democrat politically, a member of the Labour Party. In terms of political philosophy I draw most from classic Liberalism but I still think there is much of value in Marx. I criticise the idiot anti-imperialism, unthinking anti-americanism, hysterical anti-Zionism within the Left, ranging from the SWP to the Guardian and much in between, for the following reasons:- 1. It is a departure from the core and genuine principles of the progressive left. It is a non progressive reactionary stance disguised as a left-wing stance. 2. I dont bother exerting a lot of energies debating with the Far Right or Centre Right because I know were they stand and they are not claiming the progressive mantle to which I subscribe. 3. It is embarrasing as someone who comes from the Left, as a Labour Party loyalist, a progressive, a supporter of the ‘right’ side in the big battles of the 20th Century for workers rights, womens rights, the welfare state and agaisnt the reactionary right to be associated with people who march about Bush being the second Hitler and comparing Israel to the Nazis. I dont understand your logic in saying that because I happen to be British by an accident of birth I should focus my criticism on Britain and countries which are geographically near or political similar to it even if other countries are doing far worse things. As well as being illogical it also seems at odds with the basic internationalist principles that I assumed we shared. And as for this “gotta tell ya Brit, you sound like an undergraduate politics student” Pot and Kettle spring to mind. (although I was a politics undergraduate in the early 90s) Brit, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being anti-imperialist, or anti-zionist, indeed for one to claim to be a moral person one should indeed subscribe to both. It is not ‘kitsch’ to be such. Anti-americanism stems from a distain of american foreign policy. Some of which is quite imperialist in its tone and manner, as i said, the question is not if, but how much. Whilst the level of anti-americanismm occassionally plumbs the depths of stupidity, to deny geopolitics plays a role in its genisis is childish. You don’t understand why you should concentrate your criticism on the hypocrisy and failings of the countries you feel an affinty with? Its very, very simple Brit. You put your own house in order before demanding others do it, otherwise, as is clearly quite evident, many other nations and cultures round the globe merely see you for the hypocrite you are. Many American administrations have preached about democracy, whilst simultaneously overthrowing democratically elected leaders who wouldn’t cowtow, inciting coups, propping up tinpots. Nobody said never criticise the likes of Russia or China, but it would be even nicer to be able to do it, without looking so much like a hypocrite, don’t you think? If your willing to point out abuses by other nations, you should always be even more willing to point abuses by your own. “Brit, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being ….anti-zionist indeed for one to claim to be a moral person one should indeed subscribe to [it].” Well I obviously disagree radically with that and would advocate the precise opposite of your statement. And whilst I dont expect you to agree with my position I think you ought to accept that there are lots of decent, progressive and moral people who are Zionists (in the broadest sense of accepting or supporting the right of Israel to continue to exist as a (the) Jewish state in or around the ’67 borders). You may well argue that are delusional, ignorant or in denial but that is a different point. You clearly see Zionism as a self-evident evil like racism or Nazism or rape and you have defined (or more accurately you have accepted others definitions) of it has a doctrine of racial supremacism and colonialism. And one which is monolithic. But, in fact, Zionism does not only constitute a pluarality of radically different perspectives, it also includes positions which are in direct opposition to one another. For example some modern de facto Zionists, including Israelis, do not have any position on whether the idea of establishing Israel as a Jewish state was a good and just idea (and certainly criticise how the idea was implemented and executed) but argue that now, many generations on, the current Israelis have a right to remain in their state and that the wrongs of previous generations are not the fault of those 2nd, 3rd etc generation Israelis. Others think that the idea of a Jewish state is ultimately a reactionary one and that in theory a bi-national federal state of Jews and Palestinains would be preferable, but accept that in the forseeable real word, it would not work. Some Zionists are opponents of the security wall, the invasions/incursions into Gaza and Lebannon, the treatment of Palestinians and call for an immediate and complete withdrawal from the OTs. The Peace Movement in Israel is generally Zionist in the sense that it proposes a two-state solution. I think that accepting this kind of nuance would enhance your understanding of the I/P issues and your ability to debate it in a healthy and useful way. Finally I would like you to reflect on the words of Issac Deutscher, who like most Jews, opposed Zionism before WW2 and the Holocaust: “I have, of course, long since abandoned my anti-Zionism, which was based on a confidence in the European labour movement, or, more broadly, in European society and civilization, which that society and civilization have not justified… ” He proposed the following analogy for the I/P dispute. “A man once jumped from the top floor of a burning house in which many members of his family had already perished. He managed to save his life; but as he was falling he hit a person standing down below and broke that person’s legs and arms. … If both behaved rationally, they would not become enemies. … bitter enmity, so fortuitous at first, hardens and comes to overshadow the whole existence of both men and to poison their minds. ” Deutscher was a British Marxist of Polish/Jewish origin who described himself famously as a Non-Jewish Jew. Ridiculous Brit. Whilst there were various forms of zionism, cultural and moral zionism of Ahad Ha’am etc, the zionism one speaks of today, when one talks about zionism and the israeli state, it is the zionism which prevents the right of return of palestinian refugees but permits people from the other side of the globe to come and settle. The zionism which demands that Israel continue as a jewish state when about 20% of its inhabitants do not fit the bill, it should be a state for all its citizens, not just those who fit an ethnoreligious stipulation. The zionism which permits grossly unfair distribution of water resources, the zionism which permits gross discrmination in building and housing permits. Until such immorality is done away with, the ideology which encourages it, cannot claim any kind of moral legitimacy. The quote from Deutscher is laughable. Zionism (in all its forms) pre-dated the worst of jewish suffering, namely the holocaust. You make plans to steal someones land, they are not given legitimacy retrospectively just because somebody kicks the shit out of you before you can execute your plan in full. Furthermore, Deutscher would have been better equating it to someone running into a strangers house to save himself from danger and then demanding he’s here to stay. But even this would ignore the fact zionism pre-dates the holocaust and most of its founding ideologues and prime movers did not suffer quite like other jews had. Also Deutscher’s quote assumes the guy jumping was unaware he was going to hurt anyone, which when compared to early zionists and their recognition that indeed somebody was going to get hurt (the palestinians), makes it an absurd analogy. As the American jewish philosopher Morris Cohen wrote “Zionism is not merely a philanthrophic movement to help the homeless. It claims to be a solution to the Jewish problem; and its emphasis on Palestine rests on a nationalist philosophy which is a direct challenge to all those who still believe in liberalism”

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A History of the Military Medical Units of Hamilton, Ontario in Peace and War 1900-1990 by Colonel A.R.C. Butson, GC, OMM, CD The Beginning Major Rennie was very successful in recruiting and training a good unit, which had its headquarters on James Street South, just south of the Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo Railway. A photograph in the Hamilton Spectator of that time shows about twenty members in the unit. An article in the Hamilton Spectator in 1918 records that Colonel G.S. Rennie subsequently commanded base hospitals in England during the First World Companies of Hamilton were formed in 1907 and 1910 respectfully. Lt. Col. G.S. Rennie commanded the 12th Field Ambulance and Major R.Y. Parry the 19th Field Ambulance when these units were formed. For his service in the war, Colonel Rennie was made a Companion of the order of St. Michael and St. George. The First World War Training in Canada In 1914 Major (later Colonel) George Devey Farmer commanded the 12th Field Ambulance Company of Hamilton. On 11 November 1914, he was promoted to Lieutenant-Colonel and ordered to recruit and command a Field Ambulance for the 2nd Canadian Contingent; for overseas service. Hamilton was to contribute 106 men, Toronto and Owen Sound a further 162. The Hamilton recruits came mainly from the members of the 12th and 19th Field Ambulance Companies. On 19 November 1914, the unit took up quarters at Exhibition Camp in the grounds of the Canadian National Exhibition in Toronto. At that time there was considerable political influence and interference in the promotions, and Lt-Col. Farmers status was in doubt for some time. The 2nd in command of the unit was Major D.P. Kappele and in addition there were seven other medical officers, one dentist and one quartermaster captain, namely Captains H. Jones, W.C. Silcox, W.F. Nicholson, H. Buck, F. Clarke and Lieutenants N.J. Barton, J.F. Burgess, R.Y. Kenney and O.A. Elliott. At that time a field ambulance was composed of three medical “sections,” headquarters and a transport section of 57 men. Each medical section had a capability of acting independently. The transport section had 55 horses, 7 horse-drawn ambulances, additional wagons for supplies, and a motor section of several motor ambulances. Each ambulance could transport four litter cases. For the next five months the unit remained in Toronto undergoing training. This included twelve-mile route marches to Long Branch and back, and getting inoculations and vaccinations. Exercises were conducted in the Don Valley. In March 1915 these was a big parade in Toronto, and in April the unit visited Hamilton. Interlude in England On 15 April 1915, the unit left Toronto by train for Halifax, a two day journey. There the unit boarded a ship for the ten day journey to England. In all, about 1,800 troops were on board. After landing on the west coast of England the unit had a twelve hour train journey to a camp on the south coast in Kent, near Folkestone. There the unit for four and a half months, taking more training. During this time the weather and countryside were most pleasant, and leaves in London and other parts of England were enjoyed. During this period Italy entered the war on the side of the allies. While in southern England, the unit was inspected by King George V. The Early Days in France On 15 September 1915, the unit sailed for France, landing at Le Havre. There the unit was loaded into box cars and had an uncomfortable journey to St. Omer. French box cars had signs painted on them, “40 hommes 8 cheveaux” so men and horses were loaded accordingly. From St. Omer the unit marched to the front, starting at 4:30 am. By 22 September 1915 the unit had relieved an RAMC field ambulance unit at Dranoutre and was established in farm buildings and a field. Casualty evacuation during the First World War was difficult. Battalion stretcher bearers would bring the wounded to the Regimental Aid Post, where the Regimental Medical Officer would initiate treatment. From there, wounded were evacuated by field ambulance bearers to an Advanced Medical Dressing Station, usually situated in a dugout or cellar about one mile behind the front line. Casualty carries were usually at night and often in relays. At the Advanced Dressing Stations field ambulance medical officers would control hemorrhage, immobilize fractures, change dressings, administer morphine, and anti-tetanus serum. Occasionally, emergency amputations and minor operations were performed at this level. The wounded were then transported to a Main Dressing Station, usually at night and usually by horse-drawn ambulance. Main Dressing Stations were situated about 2-3 miles behind the front and here more definite triage and treatment was given. The field ambulance headquarters were co-located with the Main Dressing Station. From here the casualties were transported to the Casualty Clearing Station (CCS) situated several miles back from the front for definitive surgery. From the CCS, casualties were transported by hospital train to base hospitals. Field ambulance personnel often had to reinforce battalion medical personnel. Although names have changes, It will be seen that this system is similar to the modern, efficient method of casualty evacuation. It is recorded that, although irascible and a disciplinarians, Colonel Farmer had a wonderful way with the wounded and endeared himself to all. At this time the unit was issued with gas masks of felt impregnated with a chemical through which one breathed with difficulty. These gas masks were found to be inefficient and stifling. They were reissued every few weeks until a more satisfactory box respirator was introduces later in the war. In spite of this a number of the 5th Field Ambulance men suffered severe lung damage from chlorine gas, which had been introduced into the war by the Germans. On October 1915, the unit moved a few miles to La Clytte and Mont Noir, where the men took up quarters in an old chateau. A 5th Field Ambulance newspaper was produced and Christmas 1915 was celebrated with a dinner. The activities and history of the First World War 5th Field Ambulance were well described in C.F. Noyes’ book “Stretcher Bearers at the Double.” In March 1916 the first man to be killed from the unit was Pte. Jack Barron, a farrier who was shoeing a horse. On the 23rd of March 1916, the unit moved to Remy Siding near Poperinge, where the 5th Field Ambulance took over from a British field ambulance. At that time Canadian troops held the whole of Ypres salient, where fighting was severe, and many casualties had to be evacuated at night. Germans had tunnelled under the Canadian trenches and exploded mines, which resulted in many casualties. At about this time about twenty men from the 5th Field Ambulance were commissioned and sent to combat arms units, where a number of these new officers were subsequently killed. In July, the 5th Field Ambulance moved to Boeschepe, and in August the Canadian front was visited by King George V of Great Britain and Kind Albert of Belgium. The Battle of the Somme On 26 August 1916, the unit started to move to the Somme battlefield on foot and then by train in the usual box cares through Calais, Boulogne, Etaples and Conteville, arriving at the Somme front on 14 September, 1916. Large numbers of casualties had to be evacuated and the wounded filled every barn behind the front line. The weather was wet and the ground very muddy, making wheeled stretchers useless. Wounded men fell off stretchers when bearers stumbled at night, and there were often only two men for each stretcher. After the first day on the Somme, nine men of the unit had been killed and six had been wounded. For a time there were no rations and food was taken from the haversacks of the dead. If a horse or equipment was lost, there was a big investigation, but if a man was killed, there was none! The 5th Field Ambulance started to get reinforcements of men during the Battle of the Somme, and by the end of the war there had been 500 men reinforce to the unit. The Battle of the Somme lasted from the beginning of July to the end of November 1916, during which time the Canadians sustained 24,000 casualties on a 3,000-yard front and had advanced 4,000 yards. At this time tanks were first used by the Canadians and proved to be very effective. Sgt. Wartman was a popular NCO who was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal (DCM), but was killed one month later. When thanked by a wounded man he was attending he was heard to reply: “That’s what we are here for. We’re not fighting soldiers and it’s our job to help you. Our hats off to you lads, and there’s nothing in the world too good for you.” After three weeks on the Somme, the unit was marched north for nine days to Fosse Ten. At this time Captain Nicholson was awarded the Military Cross (MC) and Sgts. Kelso and Hogg Military Medals (MMs). Cameras were officially forbidden, but were secretly used by the men. In early November 1916, Colonel Farmer was moved from the unit and shook hands with every man. He was much loved in spite of his temper and his severe punishments, such as field punishment of being tied to a wagon wheel. The new Commanding Officer was Lt. Col. McGuffin. In January 1917, the unit was involved in the evacuation of the large number of casualties sustained in the raid at Billy Grenay. Near the end of January 1917, the unit was marched back 15 miles from the front for three weeks rest. During another rest in mid-March many of the unit were given 10 days leave in Paris. The Battle of Vimy Ridge On 12 February 1917, the unit was moved up to Cambligneul to relieve another Canadian field ambulance and dressing station. At this time 65 men of the 5th Field Ambulance spent six weeks digging an enormous dugout on the Western Canadian-held slope of Vimy Ridge. The digging took place at night under poor conditions of rats, lice and wet mud. Two hundred steps were needed to get into the dugout and the cave was large enough to accommodate six thousand casualties and men. This was one of several similar caves that were dug on the slope of Vimy Ridge. On 8 April 1917, the Canadian attack of Vimy Ridge was launched. Casualty relay points and Advance Dressing Stations were set up. There was usually a medical officer at each Advanced Dressing Station. The headquarters of the 5th Field Ambulance was set up in the Thelus Cave. The capture of Vimy Ridge was a triumph, as several attempts to capture it earlier in the war had been unsuccessful. On the far side of the Ridge, casualties had to be hand-carried to the top of the Ridge, whence horse-drawn and motor ambulances took the casualties and transported them to dressing stations in the caves. German prisoners were used extensively to help transport the wounded. During this battle, the Germans frequently used gas, which meant that the Canadians often had to work wearing gas masks. During the battle three men of the 5th Field Ambulance were killed and three were wounded. The timings and statistics for the Battle of Vimy Ridge are of interest. The attack was preceded by artillery bombardment from 27 March to 9 April 1917, and the first objective was taken 700 yards from the start line, at 6 a.m. The second objective, one mile from the start, was taken by 9:30 a.m. and the third objective secured by 1 p.m. the same day, two miles from the start. By 28 April the battle was over; defeated nine Germans divisions. At 7,000 German prisoners were taken, but Canadian casualties were over 20,000. After the capture of the Ridge on 5 May 1917, the 5th Field Ambulance was relieved by the 6th Canadian Field Ambulance and retired to a rest area. Leaves were granted to the men, mainly in Paris, but also to Nice and Monte Carlo. The Canadians were treated as heroes by the French after Vimy. At this time Sgt. Dick Thomas was awarded the MM, Sgt. Major Gardner was Mentioned in Despatches and Lt. Col McGuffin was awarded the DSO and was transferred to the 4th Canadian Field Ambulance. He was replaced by the popular and well respected Colonel Kappele, who rejoined the unit having commanded the 7th Canadian Cavalry Field Ambulance. He also had been awarded the DSO. On 1 July 1917, Canadian troops celebrated the 50th anniversary of Confederation. On 15 August 1917, the Canadians attacked at Lens and Hill 70, with the 5th Field Ambulance in support. The assault on Hill 70 lasted ten days and involved three Canadian divisions which sustained 11,000 casualties. On this occasion the Germans used mustard gas, which clung to the low spots on the battlefield and caused extensive damage to the skin and mucous membranes. Casualties were evacuated by a small-gauge railway. Three members of the unit were awarded the MM. The Battle of Passchendale On 1 November 1917, the unit was moved to Ypres by truck to evacuate casualties of the Passchendale battle, which was in progress from 12 October to 10 November, 1917. In this battle the British and Canadian casualties were horrendous, numbering 300,000, of which 30,000 were classified as “missing,” having drowned in the liquid mud. The names of the men killed and lost are engraved on the Menin Gate, the magnificent war memorial now standing in the centre of Ypres. All trenches were infested with rats and lice. Scabies and “crabs” (pediculosis pubic) were prevalent. In one week, eight members of the unit were killed and many more were wounded. In mid-November the unit was moved back to a rest area, and leaves in Paris and other parts of France were granted. Captain Sinclair was awarded the MC and seven others were awarded the MM for their actions at Passchendale. For two months the unit was billeted in rest areas, first at Estree Cauchies and then at Ames. In mid-January 1918, the unit marched for two days to Villers-au-Bois, then deployed and evacuated casualties for one month. At the end of March 1918, the Germans launched a large successful offensive, and the 5th British Army was in retreat. On 26 March 1918, the 5th Field Ambulance moved by a forced night march 35 miles to the south, first to near Arras and then to Wailly, where it stayed for three months evacuating casualties. The 5th Field Ambulance headquarters were situated in a quarry. During this time, two of the unit were killed and one was wounded. On 6 April the unit’s headquarters moved to Gouy, in an orchard where there were comfortable recreational facilities and the officers were quartered in a chateau. About this time, many of the troops, including men of the 5th Field Ambulance, contracted influenza or “pyrexia of unknown origin” and had to be hospitalized. Such cases were often poorly documented, resulting in the soldier’s treatment and pensions being prejudiced as veterans, years later. (Good records when under battle conditions seem wasted effort, but are extremely important years later.) The Battle of Amiens When in rest areas behind the lines, football, boxing, wrestling matches and concerts were organized. About this time, one member of the unit was killed and another received the Meritorious Service Medal. At the end of June 1918, the unit was marched to Grand Rullecourt and were billeted in a chateau and its grounds. Dominion Day, July 1st, was celebrated with sports. At the end of July the unit was moved into quarters in an empty girls college in Amiens. At 4:20 a.m. on 8 August 1918, the Canadian artillery commenced a heavy barrage, and, when the barrage was lifted, the whole Canadian Corps of 120,000 men advanced on foot, gaining eight miles in one day. Heavy casualties were sustained and German prisoners were used to help transport the casualties. In this attack tanks were used to good effect, as was the cavalry who charged the enemy. Many of the enemy had sabrecuts, usually at the junction of neck and shoulder and some were even pinned to the ground by lances. The Casualty Clearing Station was set up in an asylum in Amiens, twelve miles to the rear. The Battle of Arras On 20 August 1918, the unit was transported by train and then by bus to take over the dressing station at Achicourt. This was in preparation for the Battle of Arras which commenced with an artillery barrage at 3 a.m. on 25 August 1918. For the first time the NCOs were briefed before the battle by the officer, and it was thought that this helped the efficiency of the unit in the ensuing battle. Two Advanced Dressings Stations were set up. Again, because there was a large number of casualties, many German prisoners were used to carry the wounded. Captured German medical facilities revealed the gross inadequacy of the German medical supplies. On the fourth days of the battle, the 5th Field Ambulance evacuated the casualties of the 22nd Battalion or “Van Doos,” later to become the Royal 22nd Regiment of Canada. Out of 850 men of this battalion at the beginning of the battle, only 70 survived uninjured. In this battle, the 5th Field Ambulance lost one man killed, one wounded and one severely incapacitated in a gas attack. At the end of August 1918, the unit was moved to a rest area for one week and then were back again in the front line evacuating casualties for another week. The unit was again rested in billets in Arras for a week, returning to the front line on 26 Canadians on 9 October 1918. During this battle Captain Hart was awarded the bar to his MC, Captain Mossman the MC, and five others were awarded the MM. Between 8 August and 11 October 1918, the Canadian Corps had defeated 47 German divisions and captured 31,000 Germans. Canadian casualties were 43,000 during this period, during which one quarter of the German army on the western front had been defeated by the Canadians alone, a remarkable achievement. The End of the War On 12 October 1918, tragedy struck the 5th Field Ambulance when a shell exploded between two motor ambulances, killing four members of the unit and wounding Colonel Kappele, Major Burgess, Captain Clark and Captain Kay. Major McGill was temporarily put in command for three weeks, until Major Lomer was posted to the unit to take over for command. On the same day the unit was relieved, moving to quarters in a chocolate factory in St. Olle, a suburb of Cambrai. While in St. Olle, many pathetic, starving civilian refuges were housed, fed and blanketed by the 5th Field Ambulance. Later, the unit marched to Monchecourt to man a dressing station, and then on to the mining and steel city of Denain on 2 November. The unit was quartered in a school which has been used by the Germans as a prisoner of war camp, and was in a filthy state, with human excreta everywhere. The school had to be cleaned up before it was habitable. The townsfolk of Denain gave the Canadians a great welcome and the sojourn there was made more memorable and joyous by the news that the war was over on 11 November. Initially everyone was stunned by the news but, on the following day, there were wild celebrations by Canadians and townsfolk alike. Of the total 611,000 Canadians who had enlisted in the First World War, there had been 190,000 casualties. On 12 November it was announced that Major Elliott had been awarded the DSO, Captain Dunham the bar to his MC, and Captain Moses the MC. It was also announced that the unit was to march 250 miles to the Rhine, keeping six days march behind the retreating German army. Accordingly the unit moved on 15 November, marching 12 to 15 miles each day. On 19 November the men of the unit had not been fed for two days due to administrative inefficiency. The men had been prepared not to be fed during the heat of a battle but not after the war was ended. The unit refused to parade and march until the third day, when plentiful food arrived. Under the circumstances, no-one was punished for this mutiny. On 5 December the unit marched into Germany, and on 13 December marched across the Rhine, past General Currie, who had commanded the victorious Canadian Corps. En Route there was evidence of the food shortages suffered by the retreating German army, where they had slaughtered and butchered horses for food. Harry Friday was awarded the Medaille d’Honneur of France, Dalton and Graves were awarded MMs and, some weeks later, Colonel Kappele and Major Elliott were awarded bars to their DSOs. Major Burgess was awarded the Order of the British Empire in the rank of officer, and was also mentioned in dispatches and Sgt. Morgan was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal. Return to Canada On 19 December 1918, the unit settled into quarters in the German towns of Villichand Geislar. Here the unit celebrated Christmas and New Year’s Day. After a month the unit was transported by train and bus to Auvelais in Belgium, where the unit was quartered for two months. It was in Auvelais that the unit was responsible for looking after many influenza victims. In March 1919, command of the unit passed to Major Treleaven. On 2 April 1919, the unit left Auvelais by train, arriving at Le Havre on the French coast two days later. On 7 April the unit crossed the English Channel and took up quarters in Whitley Camp for a month, then sailed for Canada from Southampton, landing in Halifax. The unit finally arrived in Toronto on 19 May 1919, for demobilization. The 5th Field Ambulance had acquitted itself well during the First World War. Over five hundred men had served with the unit. At times there were over a dozen members of the unit were under the age of sixteen, having falsified their age. Forty-four members of the unit had been killed in action, or died of wounds. Honours that had been awarded were one CMG, one CBE, two OBEs, two bars to the DSO, six DSOs, three bars to the MC, fifteen MCs, two Distinguished Conduct Medals, two bars to the MM, and 36 MMs. Two men had been twice Mentioned in Despatches and another seven had been Mentioned; five had received the Meritorious Service Medal and one of the Medaille d’Honneur of France. The Inter-War Years Between the wars, the veterans of the 5th Field Ambulance held reunions in 1919, and yearly from 1927 onwards. The tradition of a yearly reunion was continued by the veterans of the 5th Field Ambulance who served in the Second World War. The 5th Field Ambulance was not the only medical unit from Hamilton that served in the First World War, but is the only one that has a good written history. We know that the 19th Field Ambulance was a Hamilton unit that was commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel J.E. Davey, DSO. Dr. Davey continued to practice in Hamilton until the age of 93 and died in the 1960s. After the war, Colonel Kappele revived the 5th Field Ambulance as a Militia Unit in 1921, and served as Commanding Officer again from 1921 to 1924, when the unit was taken over by Lieutenant-Colonel W.F. Nicholson MC, VD, until 1931. In the meantime, Lieutenant-Colonel D.A. Cannon VD commanded the 19th Field Ambulance in the Militia from 1923 to 1927 when the command was taken over by Lieutenant-Colonel D.A. Warren MC, ED, CD, who commanded the unit until 1932, when the 19th Field Ambulance was amalgamated with the 5th Field Ambulance, retaining the latter name. At that time Lieutenant-Colonel K.E. Cooke was commanding the 5th Field Ambulance. Captain Ernest L. Garinger joined the 19th Field Ambulance as a private at the age of 17 in 1930, and recounts how both units parade at the same time two evenings a week in the old James Street Armouries. Each unit had no more than twenty all ranks on parade, with a combined paper strength of less than eighty all ranks, so it was logical that they should be amalgamated. At that time there was no pay for parades at Niagara-on-the-Lake for one or two weeks. In 1929, 37 all ranks attended a summer camp. Records reveal that second-hand uniforms were issued and then men used their own boots. The only vehicle was a second-hand van donated to the unit. Compared to those days, the Militia of 1990 is superbly outfitted and equipped. Lieutenant-Colonel W.J. Deadman took over command of the 5th Field Ambulance from 1935 to 1938. Deadman had been a Staff Sergeant with the 5th Field Ambulance during the First World War, and following graduation in medicine after the war, became the chief Pathologist at the Hamilton General Hospital. In those days the unit paraded two evenings a week. One evening in early 1939, only the Commanding Officer and RSM showed up for a parade. As war clouds were gathering with the rise of the Nazis in Germany, Lieutenant-Colonel G.R.D. Farmer took over command of the 5th Field Ambulance. Dr. G.R.D. Farmer was a general practitioner and neurologist, and the son of the officer who founded the 5th Field Ambulance in 1914. Lt. Col. G.R.D. Farmer rose to the rank of Brigadier before the war ended, and was awarded a CBE as well as receiving the ED for twenty years service. In mid-July 1939, Lt. Col. Farmer started work on a mobilization plan. On 31 August 1939, 39 officers and 35 other ranks showed up for an evening parade. Outbreak of Second World War On 1 September 1939, Lt. Col. Richard Farmer received a curt telegram: “Mobilize Stop Ack.” On 2 September 1939, members of the Militia 5th Field Ambulance were medically examined and sworn in. On 3 September 1939, Britain and France honoured their treaty with Poland, which had been invaded by the German armies on 1 September, by declaring war on Germany. On 10 September, Canada declared war on Germany. A number of First World War veterans of the 5th Field Ambulance, including the Regimental Sergeant Major, Jimmy Bell MM and several other senior NCOs must be given great credit for organizing and getting the unit into shape. Much to their chagrin, most of these men were either too old or medically unfit for active service, but they lent their expertise and formed the nucleus of the active service unit. Because of the excellence of the reputation of the 5th Field Ambulance in the First World War, the unit was moved from the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division to the 1st Canadian Infantry Division. The majority of officers and NCOs were soon enrolled and, in the following weeks, volunteers from the streets rapidly filled the ranks. Many of these volunteer recruits came medically trained from the local hospitals. On 5 September 1939, Lt. Col. Farmer was loaned $150 by a friend to feed the men until pay day. By 8 September, unit strength was nearly 100, by 13 September was 141 and by 18 September mobilization was complete at over 180. On 15 September $3,000 was paid out on the first pay parade. On 21 September 1939, the unit paraded 11 officers, 15 NCOs and 156 privates. The officers included 9 medical officers, namely: Lt. Col. G.R.D. Farmer, Major G.A. Sinclair, Major W.G.B. Cornett, Major C.H. Playfair, Major F.B. Bowman, Captain I.C. Clindinnen, Captain G.C. McGarry, Lieutenant H.T. Ewart and Lieutentant W.E. Glass. Soon after, Dr. T. Gibson joined as a medical officer. In addition, Captain T.W.D. Farmer was Quartermaster and Lieutenant H.R. McLaren was the dental officer. In those days there were no non-medical administrative officers in medical units. Lt. Col. Farmer recorded in his diary that Dr. “Hugo Ewart was a marvel in the orderly room-a brilliant officer manager.” Dr. Ewart ended the war as a staff officer with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and became the Medical Administrator of the Hamilton Mountain Sanatorium, later Chedoke Hospital. Over half the medical officers who joined the unit at the beginning of the war were promoted to senior positions in the RCAMC. On 21 September 1939, the Regimental Sergeant-Major was H.M. Blythe, the Quartermaster’s Sergeant was J.F. Jardine, there were two Staff Sergeants, namely: W.E. Duncan and H.G. West; there were five sergeants, including E.L. Garinger, T.G. Anderson, G.H. McLea and A.B. McFarlane. Other NCOs were Corporals W.F. Binstead, J. Fox, L. Harvey, A.L. Plant and A.D. Robson ad Lance-Corporal E.H. Sturt. Lt. Col. Farmer was concerned that the unit was situated too close to the medical officers’ practices. In those first few months the unit had to release two medical officers because of serious illnesses, one of these being Major Gordon Cornett, described by Lt. Col. Farmer as a “tower of strength.” Training in Canada Once they had received basic military training, most of the recruits were rapidly promoted to Junior NCO rank to fill positions of those who had been promoted. Senior NCO and Warrant Officer promotions were made to replace those who not qualify for active service. Suring the early months, equipment and uniforms were of First World War vintage, as was the parade square drill e.g. forming up in fours. Modern drill was introduced in November. In spite of many difficulties, the unit was soon whipped into shape. Training was carried out in the old James Street Armouries and in vacant industrial properties. The unit was never in barracks in Canada; personnel lived at home, or in local hotels and boarding houses on a subsistence allowance. This accounted for the frequent “no shows” at morning roll call in those first few weeks, but this situation was soon rectified by the application of military discipline. In those initial weeks a bugle band was formed and trained by Corporal Bobby Hines, which led the unit in daily parades on the streets of downtown Hamilton, unique for a medical unit. This band went overseas with the unit and was the pride and joy of the unit during the first few months of route marches and training in the Aldershot area in England. The powers that be decided, however, that the unit did not warrant a band, so the instruments were shipped back to Canada. Cpl. Hines retained his personal set of bagpipes, which helped keep the troops going on long marches along the lines of Hampshire. Voyage to UK In the latter part of November 1939, the unit was issued the new army battle dress. In early December an advance party left for overseas and new quarters in England. On December 18 the unit fell in at the old James Street Armouries and, carrying full pack, marched down James Street to the C.N.R. station and boarded the train for the two-day journey to Halifax, N.S. A brand new luxury liner on its maiden voyage, the SS Andes, was boarded in the dark. The next nine days, except for rough seas and Christmas dinner, were uneventful. Shipboard routine soon became boring to the troops, who were all anxious to see action before the war ended, the general feeling at the time being that the enemy would be defeated quickly. On Boxing Day one of the soldiers developed appendicitis and an appendectomy was performed by the 5th Field Ambulance medical officers with a good result. On 30 December 1939, the convoy sailed up the Firth of Clyde and were welcomed by Anthony Eden (later Sir Anthony), who came aboard. The troops disembarked over the next 24 hours, the 5th Field Ambulance being last to disembark. It took 24 hours, mainly by train, for the unit to arrive at the medical barracks at Crookham Cross Roads, near Aldershot in Southern England, which became the home of the unit for the next six months. This time was the only period when the 5th Field Ambulance was ever in military barracks. On 24 January 1940, and again on 8 June 1940, the unit was inspected by King George VI, accompanied by Queen Elizabeth (later the Queen Mother). Lt. Col. Farmer noted in his diary that “the King was wonderful.” The Fall of France In April 1940 the commanding officer and “A” Company for the Unit were issued with new equipment and heavy winter clothing, including sheepskin coats, and dispatched to a port in Scotland where they joined a force which was to land in Norway. The expedition was called off at the last minute, when Germay successfully invaded Norway in a lightning campaign. The next two months saw Germany invade and occupy Denmark, Holland, Belgium and France, driving the British Expeditionary Force back to Britain’s shores after the evacuation from Dunkirk. In the last desperate days, as the defence of France was collapsing, the 1st Canadian Division was readied to return to France. A large part of the Canadian 1st Brigade actually landed in Brittany and started by train for the crumbling front lines, only to be turned back, losing most of their equipment and vehicles. During this time the medical personnel of the 5th Field Ambulance tended to many of the British wounded, who had been left in open fields in the vicinity of Crookham Camp. It was said at that time that the 1st Canadian Division was the only equipped and battle-ready military formation in all of the British Isles and even so had only half its complement of vehicles. After the fall of France in the summer of 1940, the whole of the 1st Canadian Division was sent on a massive propaganda and deception move, traveling throughout a large area of southern and central England for two weeks during daylight hours. The 5th Field Ambulance was constantly on the move with the Division during this period. Often cities and towns would be passed through two or even three times, so that those passing information to the Germans would get the impression that the country was flooded with the Canadian troops. To accomplish this manoeuvre it was necessary to acquire a large number of civilian trucks, so depleted were the numbers of military vehicles at the same time in Britain. The unit ended this trip at Reitgate, in the south of England, bivouacking in the woods of a large estate for two miserably wet weeks before being issued with tents. A large hospital tent was set up, which was used to treat minor ailments and emergencies for the 5,000 men of the 2nd Brigade of the 1st Canadian Division, and was used for this purpose for the next three years. Personnel for units who were so treated were not struck off strength from their regiments, as were those who were evacuated back to Canadian military hospitals in Britain. This practice encouraged greater cohesion within the regimental system and shortened the time the patient was “off sick.” Air Raids in England During the autumn and winder of 1940, when Britain was under constant air attack, personnel of 5th Field Ambulance were very busy assisting the civilian authorities in rescue and treatment of wounded civilians. This gave the medical personnel valuable experiences in extricating and treating bombed victims. The unit continued this practice for the next three years when it was stationed near towns on the south coast of England, which continued to be subjected to minor air raids. The unit was under canvas for the whole of the summer of 1940. It was moved to billets in large homes near Godstone, Surrey, in mid October 1940, close to units of the 2nd Brigade. In April 1941, Lt. Col. Farmer was promoted to Colonel and transferred to No. 15 Canadian General Hospital as commanding officer. Command of the unit was taken over by Lieutenant-Colonel C.H. (“Rusty”) Playfair. This was the beginning of the exodus of the original officers of the 5th Field Ambulance, all of whom eventually went on to higher ranks, mostly NCOs, many of whom were commissioned. During those years in England, three members of the unit were killed-Sgt. Bob Drury in a motorcycle accident, then Jimmy Cameron in an air raid, followed by Bill Scime, killed accidentally when receiving his rifle from a soldier while going on guard duty. The Spitzbergen Raid In August 1941, a detachment of the unit was involved in the Spitzbergen raid. This force boarded the Empress of Canada in Glasgow and sailed to the commando training area on the Duke of Argyll’s estate at Inveraray, Loch Fyne, where assault landings were practiced. The subsequent raid was a success; the coal mine installations were destroyed by Canadian Army Engineers, and the small population of Norwegians and Russians were taken off the island. The Russians were delivered to Archangel in northern Russia, and the Norwegians brought back to Britain. During this period of the war the 1st Canadian Division concentrated on defensive training and it was not until 1942 that training changed to offensive manoeuvres. Some members of the unit took part in commando raids on the continent, but as these raids were top secret, few in the unit were aware of them happening. Training in England During the next two years in England, the unit was moved from Godstone to the south coast at Worthing and Bournemouth, and then to Bexhill-on-Sea, where the unit was subjected to daily air raids. During this time, the unit was reorganized for moderate warfare. The introduction of the jeep as a stretcher-bearing vehicle was an important innovation. Members of the transport section were the first to design a steel pipe frame to accommodate the stretchers. The initial design took three stretchers, but this proved to be unwieldy and top heavy, so the final design was a two-stretcher jeep ambulance which proved to be very satisfactory in action. The two companies of the unit-A and B Companies-were divided into small sections which were stationed ahead of Advanced Dressing Stations (ADS), allowing them to be more readily deployed in mobile warfare. In early 1943, training intensified, with many manoeuvres carried out against defensive forces and the Home Guard. The training included assault courses and landings from assault craft. In May 1943, the whole unit was moved to the commando assault and landing training courses at Inveraray, Loch Fyne, Scotland. Here, Lt.-Col. C.H. Playfair turned over command of the unit to Lt.-Col. J.A. Noble. Lt.-Col. Playfair was promoted to Colonel and appointed Assistant Director of Medical Services (ADMS) of the 1st Canadian Division, ending the war a Brigadier-General with a CBE. Col. Playfair was the last of the original officers who had come overseas with the 5th Field Ambulance. Training at Inverary was vigorous, with assault landings, cliff climbing and forced marches. There was a lot of practice in evacuating casualties from the beaches onto hospital ships, one of these being the Royal Yacht Britannia. Many members of the unit, having acted as mock casualties, were taken on a complete tour of the ship at the end of the exercise. Training ended with the whole of the 1st Canadian Division conducting a full scale assault landing on 22 May by British forces including the Home Guard. At the end of the exercise the entire 1st Canadian Division was billeted in towns and villages in that part of Scotland, the 5th Field Ambulance being quartered in Larkhill, near the city of Hamilton, south of Glasgow. The Landings in Sicily In mid-June, 1943, the 1st Canadian Infantry Division, the 1st Canadian Army Tank Brigade and supporting Canadian units boarded ships in the River Clyde and spent the next three weeks in very cramped and uncomfortable quarters as they steamed towards the shores of Sicily. The actual assault on the beaches in Maucini in Sicily at 6:00 a.m. on 9 July 1943, went off well in spite of rough seas. For the landings in Sicily the two Companies, “A” and “B,” of the 5th Field Ambulance were formed into small stretcher bearer sections attached to the assault regiments of the 2nd Brigade, the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI) and the Seaforth Highlanders, while Headquarters Company landed with the reserve regiment, the Loyal Edmonton Regiment. The assault landing craft had to descend forty feet from the troopships into the sea, which at the time was very rough. Several of the assault landing craft capsized on hitting the water, resulting in the drowning of several infantrymen in the first wave of the landing. Personnel of the 5th Field Ambulance were designated to the second and third waves, and as there was by then a shortage of assault landing craft, many were loaded onto the larger Landing Craft Infantry. These larger landing craft were unable to cross the sandbars that were present far from the shore. The 5th Field Ambulance en were heavily laden with medical equipment, and the Private Fred Patterson describes how he was carrying a heavy steel pack-board loaded with supplies which weighed over 100 lb. When the ramp of his landing craft was lowered from the bow of the craft it was over the far side of the sand bar and he was dumped into seven or eight feet of water. The men were all wearing an inflatable life vest called a “Mae West,” named after a movie star with ample bosoms, but in spite of this, Patterson could not float. Fortunately the first off the landing craft were army engineers who had strung a life line to shore, and on Patterson’s first leap upwards form the sea bottom he was able to grasp the line and pull himself into shallower water. All the medical sections on the beach quickly joined up with their assigned regiments and advanced away from the broad sandy beaches. Enemy resistance was very light, so there were few casualties to be taken care of by the medical personnel. The 5th Field Ambulance was fortunate in suffering only one killed in the landing-Private Tom McEwan, hit by shellfire on the beach. Sgt. Gerry McLean was taken prisoner by the Italian defence force and shot in the arm when he resisted their attempt to interrogate him. He was freed the next day by a platoon of the PPCLI which was dispatched to rescue him. The Sicilian Campaign In the first few miles of advance from the beaches there were a few sporadic engagements with the defending Italian forces, who rapidly crumbled, and the Canadian troops had to contend more with surrendering Italians than wounded. The first casualty that Private Patterson had to look after had severe gunshot wounds and had to be evacuated by stretcher a considerable distance back to the beach. A donkey and cart were pressed into service, for which the protesting peasant was presented with a promissory note from King George VI. In the days that followed, other promissory notes were issued in the name of Captain Phony. Once onto the inland plains of Sicily, marching was exhausting, as it was extremely hot, with white dust permeating everything. For several days the troops had to carry all their equipment and supplies as three transport ships carrying the bulk of the Canadian Division’s vehicles had been torpedoed. The medical section attached to the PPCLI was fortunate, as that regiment had captured a horse artillery unit, and was able to use mules to ride and carry equipment for several days. The infantry rode horseback on the forward patrols, and as most of them came from the prairies and were accomplished horsemen, they were quite at home. Eventually some replacement vehicles were obtained, and with many requisitioned civilian and captured enemy lorries, the advancing troops became mobile. The advance through Sicily was rapid and all objectives were taken ahead of schedule until the central mountains were reached by 15 July 1943, where German troops were contacted for the first time. These forces put a tenacious rearguard action. In the mountain town of Leonforte, on about 23 July 1943, the 5th Field Ambulance suffered its heaviest casualties of the Sicilian campaign. Elements of Headquarters Company had entered the town with the object of setting up a Main Dressing Station half an hour after the Germans had left. They immediately came under heavy fire from the German 88 mm guns and suffered numerous casualties. Among those killed were Pte. Harry Brown, a dental Sergeant and Pte. Currie. The following week the transport officer was killed by small arms fire and Pte. Jerry Howard wounded while scouting forward by motorcycle. In the next two weeks there were many casualties to evacuate as the fighting went from one mountain town to the next. Members of the 5th Field Ambulance quickly became seasoned veterans, handling the wounded with efficiency and speed. In addition to the battle casualties, there were many cases of dysentery and malaria which had to be cared for by the medical units. In six days the medical facility of 5th Field Ambulance a Leonforte admitted more than 650 casualties of all types. In Leonforte the 5th Field Ambulance found a large stock of medical supplies. In the mountains, casualties had to be evacuated by stretcher bearers for distance of up to three half miles, as even jeeps could not travel in the rugged terrain. In August 1943, the war diary of Lt.-Col. Noble recorded that the unit could not keep pace with diagnosing, by microscope, the large number of suspected malaria cases, as the troops had not been taking anti-malarial drugs. In one day 184 blood smears were examined, nearly half of which were found to be positive. By 7 August 1943, the front had narrowed and the Canadian First Division went into a rest area in the malaria-free Mount Etna region, where preparations were made for the assault on the Italian mainland with the 51st Highland Division. By mid-August, the whole of Sicily had been taken. In the Sicilian campaign he Canadian forces suffered 2,310 casualties, of which 40 officers and 522 other ranks were killed. The Italian Campaign-The Landings on Mainland Italy On 3 September 1943, the 1st Canadian Division crossed the Strait of Messina and made an unopposed landing on mainland Italy near Reggio Calabria. Contact was soon made with defending German forces in the central mountainous country to which the division had been assigned. Mule teams were used extensively, and for casualty evacuation much use was made of the invaluable jeep ambulance. By mid-September the 5th Field Ambulance was at Catanzaro and by 20 September 1943, the unit had established a Casualty Clearing Station at Crotone in the toe of Italy. By 14 October 1943, the mountain city of Campobasso, 60 miles north of Naples, was taken and was designated a Canadian recreational centre. The Canadian Legion, Salvation Army and Knights of Columbus set up recreational facilities. The town was called “Maple Leaf City,” movie theatres name the “Savoy” and “Capital” opened, as well as clubs titled “The Beaver Club” and “Aldershot Officers Club.” Campobasso became a leave town for all allied forces in the area, which was ironical, as many came from safer locations only to be subjected to sporadic shellfire from German artillery for weeks after its occupation. It became the practice from the second day of occupation for each regiment of the division, the first being the Royal Canadian Regiment (RCR), to mount a ceremonial guard in the town square to the pipes of the 48th Highlanders. The 5th Field Ambulance set up an Advanced Dressing Station and Campobasso which cared for large numbers of cases of malaria, dysentery and “desert sores.” The latter condition was probably caused from infection of minor lacerations abrasions, as the whole countryside was fertilized with human feces. At that time Headquarters Company was stationed in the foothill town of Lucera, near the Adriatic coast, in a large modern building which had been a Fascist headquarters. This became a temporary field hospital to relieve the rear army hospital units, which were filled to capacity. This hospital was used for fever and jaundice cases and as a clearing Main Dressing Station with the added burden of several wards of sick to treat. The liberated inmates of a nearby political prison were pressed into service to do fatigue and maintenance duties, thereby freeing medical personnel for medical work. By 1 November 1943, most of the 1st Canadian Division’s objectives had been taken and Lt.-Gen. Guy Simonds left to take command of the newly arrived 5th Canadian Armoured Division. Major-General Chris Vokes, the 2nd Brigade Commander, then took over the 1st Canadian Division. The month of November 1943 was spent in rest and rebuilding the division with reinforcements and equipment in preparation for the next offensive up the Adriatic coast of Italy to break the German Bernhard line. In the latter part of November, the 5th Field Ambulance moved to new positions near the coast in severe winter conditions, sleeping outdoors on the frozen ground as it moved from the mountains to the coastal plains. Pte. Fred Patterson recounts how he found warmth on a few of these nights by burrowing down into manure piles wrapped in one blanket and his groundsheet. Once on the coastal plain, the constant downpour of the seasonal rains began, and the advance was made mos difficult by the resultant mud and the many swollen rivers that had to be crossed. 21/2-ton amphibious vehicles (DUKWs) were utilized to evacuate wounded across the flooded streams and rivers. Notable large scale crossings were the Sangro and Moro rivers. The 5th Field Ambulance had established an evacuation centre north of the mouth of the Sangro river. The 1st Canadian Division was engaged in constant large scale action throughout the month of December 1943, and suffered many casualties, especially during the assault and occupation of Ortona, which was partly occupied but not completely taken by Christmas Day. Men of the 5th Field Ambulance celebrated Christmas 1943 suitably with wine in the winery at Rocca. It was in Ortona that the 2 i.c. of the 5th Field Ambulance crawled through the rubbled streets, while fierce fighting was still taking place, marking with chalk, buildings suitable for the Main Dressing Station. This farsighted action by Major Coleman was most commendable, as there were few buildings left intact and these were to be the quarters of the 5th Field Ambulance for the rest of the winter. During this offensive the 5th Field Ambulance also took care of hundreds of civilian casualties who had nowhere to go, as the fierce battles had razed their towns and villages. Although medical facilities were strained to the limit at times, all were given medical care and evacuated to the rear of the allied lines. Ortona was the most northerly held position of the allied front for three months and was under daily harassing fire from German artillery, which became trying on the nerves. While in Ortona, Pte. Poirier of the 5th Field Ambulance was killed by a shell. On 10 January 1944, a large scale offensive was launched by the 11th Infantry Brigade of the newly arrived 5th Canadian Armoured Division, in part to give the green troops battle experience. Unfortunately they were up against the best German troops in Italy-parachute battalions-and all attacks failed, with heavy casualties. The 5th Field Ambulance Dressing Station was busy for over 24 hours, treating the steady influx of wounded. Apart from this there were few casualties to treat in Ortona. While in Ortona, Lt.-Col. Noble turned over command of the 5th Field Ambulance to Lt.-Col. Agnus Spence, who remained as commanding officer until the end of hostilities in 1945. The Battle of the Liri Valley During January 1944 the 1st Canadian Corps was formed under Lt.-Gen. H.D.G. Crerar, who turned over command to Lt.-Gen. E.L.M. Burns, in March 1944. On 20 April 1944, the 1st Canadian Division turned over the Ortona front to the 10th Indian Division and the 12th South African Brigade. The 5th Field Ambulance was sent to the central mountainous area for rest, relaxation and, for some members, training for mountain warfare at a U.S.A. Alpine school in the hills. The 1st Canadian Division was once again reinforced and equipped so that by 1 May 1944, it was poised to attack the Gustav Line in the Liri Valley west of Cassino. This was breached by the 8th Indian Division. Then the 1st Canadian Armoured Brigade and 2nd Canadian Brigade went through to mount the offensive on the Hitler Line. This was to be the fiercest and bloodiest battle of the entire Italian campaign. Canadian casualties were very heavy, and the 5th Field Ambulance cleared and treated hundreds of casualties non-stop for many days. About this time penicillin became available in small quantities, but was extremely expensive. On 23 May 1944, the Hitler Line was broken, and at the same time the troops in the bridgehead at Anzio broke through and the roads to Rome were opened. The 5th Field Ambulance advanced with the Canadian troops toward Rome, only to be halted with the rest of the Canadian Corps just short of the city to allow the Americans the honour of freeing Rome. Pte. Fred Patterson describes how, while he sat by the roadside, the announcement was made that on 4 June 1944, the American 5th Army had liberated Rome, and on 6 June the Second Front had begun in Normandy. During this part of the Italian campaign, Canadian units had lost 903 killed, 2,574 wounded and 116 taken prisoner. During the same period, 4,000 were admitted to Canadian medical installations for sickness. All this occurred during the 25-day battle in the Liri Valley. On 7 June 1944, the Canadian Corps began the long journey back through the old battlefields to a rest and training area near Piedimonte in the upper Volturno valley. The rest of June and July was spent regrouping and training for combat units. Leave and educational trips were granted to all 1st Canadian Division personnel to visit Naples and Rome. A new formation, the 12th Infantry Brigade, was formed by disbanding anti-aircraft regiments, the Princess Louise Dragoon Guards and reducing the strength of many units, including the 5th Field Ambulance, which became No. 5 Light Canadian Field Ambulance. The Battle for Rimini In the first few days of August, the 1st Canadian Division made a secret move, and by 6 August 1944 was camped on the banks of the river Arno on the outskirts of Florence. There the red patches of the 1st Canadian Division were put on, along with other identifying badges, and the enemy was made aware of the division’s presence. On 10 August, in another secret move, the 1st Canadian Division withdrew and assembled on the Adriatic coast for the assault on the Gothic Line, which was breached by the end of August, 1944. In the first week of September, the 5th Field Ambulance set up a Main Dressing Station in the seaside of the unit a few days rest in luxury hotels on the beach, with daily swims in the sea, which gave some respite from the heat. The rest was short lived, as the assault on the Rimini defences had commenced and the 5th Field Ambulance Main Dressing Station was the clearing house for all the casualties of the division. In this hotly contested battle many more enemy wounded were treated than in any previous engagement. In addition there were wounded from the 3rd Division at that time, and from the New Zealanders, South Africans, Indians and Gurkhas. As might be expected, there was often difficulty in communicating with the wounded. This was the longest sustained battle the Canadian troops in Italy were to experience, and the longest period that the 5th Field Ambulance stayed in the line without rest or relief. From 25 August to 22 September 1944, when Rimini was taken, the 1st Canadian Division suffered 2,511 battle casualties, 626 of them fatal, and an additional 1,005 were evacuated because of illness. The 5th Canadian Armoured Division suffered 1,385 battle casualties, of which 390 were killed. When one takes into account the many German, civilian and other allied wounded who flooded through the 5th Field Ambulance facilities, Advanced Dressing Stations and Main Dressing Stations, a terrific strain was imposed on the unit’s human and material resources. Added to this, the rainy season had begun again, turning the countryside into a quagmire of mud and swollen streams, and there were few intact buildings, so the unit had to function under canvas most of the time. The fighting was taking place in the flat plains of the Po River valley, with many streams, canals, marshes and dykes. The Germans would blow the dykes as they retreated, causing extensive flooding and similar conditions to what the Canadian army was to experience in Holland a few weeks later. During this period, the most forward surgical facilities (Casualty Clearing Stations) for treatment of life-threatening conditions were situated only 3,000 yards from the forward edge of the battle, and were most successful in saving life and limb. About this time the numbers of personnel in Field Ambulances were reduced. At the end of September 1944 the 1st Canadian Division was withdrawn for a rest, and the Headquarters Company of the 5th Field Ambulance was moved into the large town of Riccione on the coast ten miles south of Rimini. This became a new “Maple Leaf City” with comfortable quarters. A Main Dressing Station was set up with two wards to look after the sick and minor wounded of the division. At this time duties were light, and leaves to Rome and Florence were granted. The Battle of the Rivers On 10 October 1944, the 1st Canadian Division was moved back into action for the assault on the ancient coastal city of Ravenna, with the ultimate objective of Bologna and the Lombardy Plains. At this time the swollen rivers were overflowing their banks and progress came to a standstill at times. There was one short rest period in November, but it was not until 4 December 1944, that Ravenna was captured. A front line for the winter was established from a few miles north of Ravenna westward. During January and February the only action was probing patrols towards enemy lines. The 5th Field Ambulance was quartered in a church-operated orphanage just north of the town of Russi and 15 miles west of Ravenna. In November, lots were drawn for home leave for those who had served five continuous years overseas, although the unit allotment was only about two a month. In February 1945, the 1st Canadian Corps started to move to northwest Europe. The 1st Canadian Division was the last to leave the line along the Senio River, being relieved by the 8th Indian Division. The 5th Field Ambulance traveled overland to Leghorn and boarded troop transport ships on 7 March 1945, bound for Marseilles. Of the 92,757 Canadians who served in the Italian theatre, those killed numbered 408 officers and 4,991 other ranks. 1,218 officers and 18,268 other ranks were wounded, 62 officers and 942 other ranks were taken prisoner. There were 365 who died from causes other than enemy action, to bring the total Canadian casualties to 26,254. The Campaign in Northwest Europe Upon arrival in France, the troops were transported into an area in the hills, where everyone was deloused. The Canadian units were then moved across France by truck convoy to Herenthals, 14 miles east of Antwerp. On 3 April 1945, the 1st Canadian Division moved into the Reichswald Forest, the only Canadian formation which had been in Italy to see service on German soil. A few days later the division moved north to Holland and stormed across the Ijssel River on 11 April 1945, to join the 1st Canadian Army in the campaign to liberate western Holland. From 14 to 17 April 1945, there was a hotly contested action to capture Apeldoorn, in which the 5th Field Ambulance supported the 1st Canadian Infantry Division. However, the 1st Canadian Division’s experience in northwest Europe was mainly of the mopping up type, and the 5th Field Ambulance did not have the huge influx of casualties to treat that it had handled in the Italian Theatre. By the time there was only a handful left of those who had landed on the shores of Sicily. They were proud, indeed, to follow Col. Spence in the Victory Parade through the streets of Rotterdam in early May 1945. Spence had been appointed ADMS of the 1st Canadian Division and promoted to the rank of Colonel at Hilversum in Holland. Col. Spence writes: “I was very proud of my troops, there were excellent especially when they going was rough. I had very few disciplinary offenses. The men will always be close to my heart.” In the latter part of the second World War, Major J.T. McDougall was awarded the DSO, Captains V.J. McKenty and S. Worobetz were awarded MCs and there were many members of the Unit Mentioned in Despatches.’ Captain Worobetz later became Lieutenant Governor of Saskatchewan from 1970 to 1976. Many of those returning to Canada as veterans were to serve in the continuing Militia 5th Field Ambulance. Although the 5th Field Ambulance made a noteworthy contribution to Canada’s war effort, it was not the only Military Medical Unit raised in Hamilton in the Second World War. No. 1 Canadian Motor Ambulance Convoy No. 1 Canadian Motor Ambulance Convoy was recruited in Hamilton in the early days of the Second World War. By 1941 it had been transported to England. The Motor Ambulance convoy was under direct command of the Corps. It was composed of platoons, each with 30 box ambulance cars and several troop-carrying vehicles for sitting wounded. No. 1 Motor Ambulance Convoy was involved in the transport of the Dieppe raid casualties from Portsmouth on 19 August 1942. It was attached to the 1st Canadian Corps in the Sicilian and Italian campaigns, and evacuated, mainly priority III, (i.e. not life threatening), casualties back from a divisional level to General Hospitals. In the Battle of the Liri Valley this Ambulance convoy evacuated casualties from the ADSs to CCSs or General Hospitals. In March 1945, it moved to Belgium and was involved in evacuating casualties to No. 2 Canadian General Hospital in Ghent, Belgium, and later to General Hospitals from the Rhineland battles. No. 13 Canadian General Hospital Another unit recruited in Hamilton was No. 13 Canadian General Hospital, which moved to Cuckfield, England, in 1942. Cuckfield, Surrey, is situated between London and Brighton. No. 13 Canadian General Hospital in Cuckfield was operational from 1 November 1941 to 11 August 1945. Medical officers and medical personnel from this hospital went on ‘Landing Ships Tank’ (LST) to assist evacuation of casualties from Normandy to England from 30 May to 17 June, 1944. This hospital received many prisoners of war casualties from 21 June 1944, onwards. Post-War Militia 5th Field Ambulance While the active 5th Field Ambulance was vitally engaged in the stirring events of the Second World War, in Hamilton the Militia 5th Field Ambulance carried on recruiting and training part-time soldiers for the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps. Lt.-Col. Ken E. Cooke, who had commanded the unit from 1931 to 1935, again commanded the Militia unit from 1940 to 1945. At the end of hostilities in 1945, interest in supporting the military was low, and Militia headquarters at Oakville requested Dr. John B. Neilson had had a distinguished war record, mainly as the Registrar of No. 15 Canadian General Hospital in England, North Africa, Italy and Northwest Europe, and then as Deputy Assistant Director of Medical Services (DADMS) of 21 Army Group Canadian Section. At the end of the war he had been responsible for the repatriation to Germany of a large number of wounded German soldiers, for which had had been awarded the MBE. He returned to Hamilton as the Assistant Superintendant (Medical) of the Hamilton General Hospital, late in 1945. Lt.-Col. Neilson’s “temporary command” continued over a four-year period from 1946 to 1950. During that time he recruited each year about five medical officers, including Dr. Ken Murray, Chief of Surgery at St. Joseph’s Hospital, and Dr. Joseph Lee, Chief of Medicine at the Hamilton Mountain sanatorium, which at that time was a large tuberculosis treatment hospital of some 700 beds. Capt. N. Simon, a dental officer, was a member of the unit. Unit strength was maintained at between 40 and 50. The Unit paraded one of two evenings a week at their quarters in the old James Street Armouries in Hamilton. Training was composed of common to arms subjects, casualty handling with stretchers and first aid. Once a year the Unit spent a day at the Winona rifle range for musketry practice. A small amount of pay was given one a year before Christmas, at which time there was usually an annual turkey raffle which was well supported by the doctors in Hamilton. The Unit was held together in large part by the ex-RSM, Harry Blythe, who had been commissioned in 1943 and had risen to the rank of Major. Blythe was a tower of strength to the Unit before, during and after the war. Lt. Ernest Garinger, CD returned to the Unit at this time. He had been commissioned from the ranks of the 5th Field Ambulance and had been with the RHLI in Northwest Europe from the invasion of Normandy onwards, as an infantry officer. A Regular Force sergeant supported the Unit on a full-time basis. During this period, old clothing and equipment were replaced, and there were inspections by the Militia headquarters in Oakville every three or four months. Armistice Day parades were attended by about thirty members of the Unit. There were, however, no vehicles, no summer camp and no officer training. In 1950 Lt.-Col. Ivan Clendinnen took over command, to be followed by Major Joseph Lee, CD in 1954. Training continued much as before, with summer camp for one or two weeks at Niagara-on-the-Lake, and, every third year, collective medical unit training for medical units across Canada was undertaken at Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Borden. In addition, occasional training was undertaken at CFB Gagetown, N.B., and at CFB Petawawa. Tactical exercises without troops (TEWTs) were also conducted for officers on weekends in Toronto or at CFB Borden. The unit was quartered in the Old James Street Armouries and had an officers’ medical mess, a medical sergeants’ mess and a medical other ranks’ mess shared with the Signals and Engineers. At that time the unit had a transport section commanded by Captain Plant and had a jeep ambulance, one box ambulance, two 3/4 -ton and one 21/2-ton trucks. Staff Sergeant from the RCEME and the RCASC, and was commissioned in 1961. The unit had equipment for river crossings with blocks and tackles, a field kitchen and instruments for a band. Major Harry Blythe was the quartermaster until 1961, when Lieutenant (later Captain) Keith Gage took over. It was during the 1950s that a few female nurses were brought into Militia medical units as officers and gave valuable help with the medical training. No. 16 Medical Company In 1956 the name of the unit was changed to No. 16 Medical Company, in keeping with the name change of Militia Field Ambulance across Canada. In the 1950s the Adjutant was Captain Ernest Garinger until 1961, when he retired after 31 years of service. In 1958 Major Robert Appleford, CD succeeded Major J. Lee, CD in command of the unit. In 1959 all the Regular Force medical personnel from all three services were combined to form the Canadian Forces Medical Service (CFMS) under a Surgeon General. Militia medical personnel, however, continued as the reserve RCAMC until 1974 when, coincident with a visit by the Colonel-in-Chief, Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, The Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps was finally disbanded. Militia units remained under the command of Mobile Command (the Canadian Army). In 1962, when Major Appleford stepped down, command of the unit was taken over on a temporary basis by Major Harry Blythe, who was not a physician. In 1962 the medical officers in the unit included Captain W. Noonan, Captain Homer Beattie, Captain R. Douglas Marriott, Captain R. Henning and Captain Kenneth I. Mustard. Nursing sisters included Captain Molly Scott, Lieutenants Eilish Graham, Jean Hughes and Eileen De Witt. N.C.O.’s included Sgt. (later Lt.) K. Gage, Sgt. F. Assiter and Cpl. R. Melville. Training included General Military Training, drill, and twenty-four procedures such as preparing casualty accommodation, medical documentation, first aid, wound dressings, sterilisation, applying suction, passing naso-gastric tubes and gastric lavage, washing and feeding casualties, and care of bedridden patients. This included the use of bed pans, the setting up for catheterization, tracheostomy, chest tubes, spinal taps and the application of plaster casts. Casualty evacuation included extrication of casualties from buildings, and transportation across rivers. The numbers of other ranks in the unit at that time varied between twenty and forty. In 1963, command of No. 16 Medical Company was taken over by Lt.-Col. R.H.D. Farmer CD, on of Brigadier G.R.D. Farmer CBE and grandson of Colonel G.D. Farmer CBE. The family connection with the unit was reinforced by Lt.-Col. R.H.D. Farmer who, when he was Commanding Officer, arranged an annual unit church parade every summer at St. John’s Ambulance Veterans Association from both World Wars, followed by a garden party at the Farmer family residence in Ancaster. For seventy-five years the Red Cross flag that flew over the 5th Field Ambulance headquarters in France during the First World War has hung in St. John’s Church. Reduction of the Militia: Amalgamation of Medical Companies with Service Battalions In 1956 the Government of Canada drastically reduced the numbers in the Militia, disbanding many of the units with proud traditions. Support service units such as the Royal Canadian Army Service Corps, the Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, the Provost Corps (military police), the paymasters and the RCAMC were grouped together in Service Battalions, for the sake of economy. This was a disastrous move for Militia Medical Companies across the country. 16 Medical Company was forced to evacuate the quarters in the old James Street Armouries that they had used for nearly half a century. The Company was moved to the new Service Battalion quarters in the old, unused factory warehouse in the industrial section of Burlington Street in Hamilton’s north end. The furniture, decorations, pictures, silverware and memorabilia were retained by older members of the unit in their homes, most of which was recovered in 1974. 16 Medical Company became a company of the Service Battalion. The messes, orderly room, adjutant, clerks and typists were all part of the Service Battalion but were shared with the medical company. This proved to be a most unhappy marriage. On exercises medical personnel were given non-medical tasks as well as being expected to perform their own medical duties, and, in other ways, felt that they were being treated unfairly. In recruiting, for instance, after recruiting a potential medical recruit, the innocent neophyte, while doing his general military training with the Service Battalion instructors, would be persuaded that it would be much more interesting to handle and repair trucks rather than pass bedpans. As if the intricacies of the human body were less interesting than the internal combustion engine! The discord between the medical units and the Service Battalions occurred across the country, and was detectable in the Regular Force. Medical personnel have always got on well with the combat arms units, and transport personnel attached to medical units have usually worked in harmony. Discord and unfairness did not contribute to flourishing medical companies. Worse was to come in 190, when the number of medical companies across Canada was reduced from twenty to six, each with an establishment reduced to 36 all ranks. The remaining fourteen medical companies were reduced to sections of service battalions with an establishment of twelve all ranks. Only twenty-four Militia regiments were allowed a medical officer. At this time the abbreviated title for lieutenant colonel changed from Lt.-Col. To LCol and the second-in-command changed from 2 i/c to DCO (Deputy Commanding Officer). Likewise, unification of the three services resulted in the same rank designations being used for the navy, army and air force, much to the chagrin of some members of the services. The distinctive uniforms of the three services were abolished and a single type of green uniform was introduced. Rank insignia for officers changed from pips and crowns on shoulder epaulettes to rings on the sleeve for all three services. It took another eighteen years before this harm done to pride and tradition of service was remedied by reinstating naval and air force uniforms and summer “tan” army uniform. Combat dress was changed from the battledress to a more functional dress similar to the U.S. army combat clothing. However, the combat clothing was considered to be so sloppy that troops were forbidden to travel on public transport or the Canadian Forces’ Boeing 707s in combat clothing. These changes took about two years after their introduction in the regular force to be implemented in the militia. In 1968 command of 16 Medical Company passed from Lt.-Col. R.H.D. Farmer CD to Lt.-Col. E.S. Gibson, CD, who had served in the Regular Force CFMS and in Owen Sound’s Militia medical company. Lt.-Col. Gibson was an industrial physician at Dofasco who, in one collaborative exercise with the Toronto Medical Company in 1968, arranged for simulated casualties at the sit of an explosion in Dofasco to be transported to HMCS Star where a brigade medical station had been set up for treatment of the wounded. Quarters at HMCS Star In 1968 the Hamilton Service Battalion moved to quarters at HMCS Star on the harbour front. The naval reserve had experienced similar cutbacks to the Militia so space was available. Messes were shared with the navy reserve at HMCS Star, an improvement from the drab rooms in the Burlington Street factory. A reorganization of the Militia resulted in a Hamilton Militia District Headquarters, which was also accommodated at HMCS Star. During the years 1967-72, exercises were conducted at CFB Borden or Meaford with the Service Battalion every autumn and spring. Weekend courses were sometimes conducted by the Canadian Forces Medical Services School at CFB Borden. Winter exercises were also undertaken with appropriate equipment, and selected personnel participated in the Regular Force’s artic winter warfare training at Churchill, Resolute Bay and Southampton Island. Time consuming enrolment and other medical examinations continued to be done by the few Militia medical officers, detracting from their training in military medicine. In 1972, command of the unit passed from LCol E.S. Gibson, CD to LCol G.S. Bickle, a psychiatrist practicing in Guelph who had just been released from the Regular Force. In 1973, command of 16 Medical Company was taken over by Major A.R.C. Butson, GC, Royal Hamilton Light Infantry (RHLI). As a student during the war, he had served in the Home Guard and Light Rescue Squads during the London bombings, and later, for 18 months, had served as medical officer with a British combined forces expedition to the Antarctic. When Major Butson took over, he viewed with dismay the state of the medical company, which consisted of five nurses, three of whom were super-numerary, and six other ranks, including Sgt. N. Williams, CD who had had several years Regular Force service. All were subordinate to the Service Battalion. The new commanding officer perceived that the only way to resuscitate the medical unit was to recruit directly into the unit and to conduct interesting and exciting training. Captain J.E. Twelves, CD, who had served in the RCNVR during the Second World War, and had been medical officer for the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (ASH(Can)) for some years, came in as DCO, and active recruiting commenced. Since the end of the Second World War, females in the Canadian Women’s Army Corps (CWAC) had been in militia units. In the early 1970s, the CWAC was disbanded and a certain number of females were allowed into Militia units. This percentage varied between 10% and 50%, depending on the type of unit and on policy changes, which occurred almost yearly. In 1973, 16 Medical Company was composed of about one third female personnel. In October and November 1973, a most successful air-medical evacuation exercise was conducted by Major Butson involving about 350 personnel. At a preliminary exercise at Mount Hope airport, personnel were trained in loading and unloading casualties into a Regular Force “Huey” helicopter with the rotors running. In the subsequent main exercise, a battle took place between several platoons of RHLI and ASH (Can) in a ravine on Major Butson’s Ancaster farm, generating about forty simulated casualties provided by local cadet corps. These casualties were evacuated by helicopter to Mount Hope airport, where a brigade medical station had been set up. From there, they were transported by single Otter aircraft of Toronto’s Air Reserve Wing to Downsview, where the Toronto Militia medical unit had established a field hospital. In all, about 350 reserve personnel took part, including ten medical officers and six nursing officers. One of the single Otters was co-piloted by Richard Rohmer, DFC, the Honorary Colonel of the Air Reserve Wing, who was later to become Major-General and Chief of Reserves. The exercise received excellent coverage in the Globe and Mail, the Hamilton Spectator and a four-minute clip on CBC’s evening news. Revitalizing of 16 Medical Company The revitalization of 16 Medical Company had commenced, and recruiting was active thereafter. Because the unit had become familiar with helicopter evacuation, it was requested to provide medical support for the first Mount Hope air show in June, 1975. It was anticipated that, due to traffic congestion around the airport, it would be difficult to evacuate casualties by wheeled ambulance. Consequently, a helicopter was made available for casualty transport from Mount Hope airport to Chedoke Hospital, then an active treatment general hospital. This provided the Medical Company with a realistic task and two days viewing the air show. This became an annual task for the unit for a number of years. At the air show in 1976, a most regrettable incident occurred. A corporal refused to obey a sergeant’s order. The sergeant struck the corporal on the head with a tent mallet, causing a depressed fracture of the skull. The victim fortunately made a good recovery following brain surgery, and the sergeant turned himself over to the civilian police and was charged. Needless to say, he was immediately released from the militia. He had shown evidence of unstable behaviour once previously, but because he was very good as an instructor, had not been released at that time. This exemplifies the need to weed out anyone with emotional instability in the forces. In the fall of 1974, another medical evacuation exercise was conducted with the aid of HMCS Star. Unit infantry assaulted the beach at La Salle Park across from Hamilton Bay, at first light. The area was well defended and simulated casualties were transported back across the bay by the navy craft to HMCS Star, where a brigade medical station had been established. This again was a most successful exercise and was written up in a whole page of the Hamilton Spectator as being evocative of the famous Dieppe raid of 1942.16 Medical Company Independent Again At the Hamilton Militia District Commander’s inspection in the fall of 1974, the Medical Company had nearly as many on parade as the rest of the Service Battalion. The District Commander suggested that 16 Medical Company become unofficially independent, and this opportunity was seized upon. Quarters above the Senior NCO’s mess at HMCS Star were allotted to 16 Medical Company. Major Butson was promoted to LCol, and the next year, Captain Twelves was promoted to Major. Major Roy Holmes, CD, who had commanded the Hamilton Signals Squadron, joined the unit as Medical Associate Officer (MAO) for administration. In the spring of 1975, 16 Medical Company ran its own GMT course conducted by Major Holmes and Warrant Officer Norman Williams, the Company Sergeant Major. An influx of about sixteen recruits brought their numbers up to about 36. Medical training of the other ranks at the various levels continued. A unit senate was established, and close association with the 5th Field Ambulance veterans was maintained. At the annual inspection of the unit by the staff of the Command Surgeon Mobile Command in 1975, the Hamilton Militia medical unit won the Ryerson Trophy for being the best Militia medical company in Canada. It was the first time that the Hamilton unit had won the trophy since its inception in 1913. It was proven that medical companies could operate independently again. Largely because of Hamilton’s 16 Medical Company’s example, in the following year independent medical companies were re-established in the Order of Battle across the country. The part played by Master Warrant Officer Norman Williams, CD, in the unit’s success was considerable. In the 1970s, Militia personnel were called out for attachment to Regular Force units for overseas duties for periods of up to six months and medical personnel were no exception. Because of the difference in the length of medical training between Regular Force and Militia medical assistants, the name in the Militia was changed to casualty aide. It was not until 1989, with the Total Force Concept, that the Militia casualty aide was upgraded to medical assistant and the name of the trade became medical assistant in the Militia again. During the winters of the late ’70s, winter exercises were held in CFB Borden, in combination with a Regular Force platoon from 2 Field Ambulance, Petawawa. Evacuation of casualties by helicopter was practiced during these exercises. In 1975, a Regular Force captain MAO and sergeant medical assistant were attached to the unit as Regular Force support staff. That autumn, an ambitious medical evacuation exercise was planned. The reserve navy was to transport infantry from the RHLI and ASH (Can) to Niagara-on-the-Lake for a first light assault landing on an area of D.N.D. property defended by the Lincoln and Welland Regiment. Army cadet casualties were to be simulated and transported from the Unit Medical Station by helicopter to St. Catharines’ airport, where a brigade medical station was set up, and thence by single Otter aircraft to Downsview field hospital manned by personnel of the Toronto Medical Company. At the last minute, helicopter support was denied due to a crisis in the Middle East, and a gale with rough seas on Lake Ontario prevented the naval “gate vessel” from sailing. Accordingly, troops were trucked into the battle area and the casualties transported by wheeled ambulance from the unit medical station to the brigade medical station. Road blocks were set up on this route to provide extra challenge. Over 70 simulated casualties were evacuated the 80 miles to Downsview, and all the priority 1 casualties were evacuated within 90 minutes, not a bad record. As part of LCol. Butson’s concept of exciting training, all members of the unit were trained in rapelling and lowering casualties down buildings, cliffs and overhangs at Rattlesnake Point and at Meaford. During the Ryerson competition display in 1977, the Hamilton Fire Department’s four storey building training tower was used to evacuate casualties from the roof. A smoke bomb and lighted bale of hay in the basement of the tower provided a realistic scenario and some excitement. That year, 16 Medical Company again won the Ryerson Trophy. At that time, the unit had a strength of 55 all ranks, including Captains J.R. Mackenzie and T. David Marshall, both medical officers. For his efforts, LCol. Butson was appointed Queen’s Honorary Surgeon. In 1977, he handed over command to LCol J.E. Twelves, CD, and moved to the newly created post of Area Surgeon at Central Militia Area Headquarters, in November 1977. 23 (Hamilton) Medical Company Later that same year the name of the unit was again changed to 23 (Hamilton) Medical Company. Under LCol. Twelves, the level of operation and training of the unit was maintained. Collective exercises were conducted, usually at Thanksgiving weekend, at CFB Petawawa, with 2 Field Ambulance. Militia medical personnel from Windsor, London, Hamilton, Toronto and Ottawa were flown in by Hercules transport aircraft to Petawawa. Winter exercises were held and medical support for Militia summer concentration was provided. Officer training weekends and TEWTs were attended collectively with other Militia medical officers in Toronto almost every year. In 1981, command of the unit was handed over to LCol. R. Turnell, CD, a gynecologist who had previously commanded a militia armoured regiment, the Royal Canadian Hussars, in Montreal. During the early 1980′s, the trophy for the best military first aid team in both Regular Force and Reserves in Ontario was won twice by 23 (Hamilton) Medical Company. In 1983, LCol. Turnell handed over command of the unit to Major Marcia Quinn, CD, a nursing officer, the first time the unit had been commanded by a female. To her credit, the unit thrived and numbers and standards were maintained or improved. The unit was given an operational tasking in time of national emergency. Equipment was modernized and the number of vehicles, including two box ambulances, 5 jeeps and 4 trucks, was increased to 11. The transport section of 23 (Hamilton) Medical Company was most active. In 1987, Major Quinn was promoted to Lieutenant-Colonel. In 1984, LCol. S.M. Hudecki, MD, was appointed Honorary Lieutenant Colonel and, after his untimely death in 1988, was succeeded by LCol. H. Richardson, MD. In 1980, Col. A.R.C. Butson was appointed Honorary Colonel. In 1989, command of the unit was passed to LCol. Robin Hesler, CD, a senior radiographer with a distinguished Militia record having previously commanded the Lorne Scots, a Militia Highland infantry regiment. In 1990, under LCol. Hesler, 23 (Hamilton) Medical Company is prospering; numbers, including officers, are up, and standards, deportment and morale are excellent and all augers well for the future of Hamilton’s Militia medical unit.

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Indeed, these determine the relationship between selected clinical risk factors and erectile dysfunction in men residing in upper Egypt. erectile dysfunction, the corresponding figures were 2.8%, 3.7% and 28.7%. of the frequency and risk factors for ED questionnaires. Relationship between erectile dysfunction with patient's age, duration of dialysis anastomosis, diabetes and hypertension were analyzed. Results: Only hundred . with chronic renal failure may be impotent. The genesis It's extremely common to have erection problems with diabetes. . That's a great question, but to the best of my knowledge there is no relationship between the . Could Viagra help with the erectile dysfunction side effect? Impotence Preventing Tips for Diabetes Mellitus Patients Impotence or erectile dysfunction can be temporarily or permanent for a Medium erectile dysfunction is one dysfunction circumstance between minor and serious erectile dysfunction. Many men started to have relationship with their opposite sex at the age of 17 Erectile dysfunction can cause a great deal of stress and anxiety. Men with diabetic impotence benefit from managing blood glucose levels. . are the crucial factors which sustain a relationship between two partners. Erectile dysfunction is related to age in both groups, whereas duration and Contrary to common belief, a similar prevalence of impotence in hypertensive Individuals with diabetes mellitus, heart disease, renal failure, or liver or the association between existence and severity of erectile dysfunction in To clarify the relation between hypertension and erectile dysfunction, we men to impotence, the precise relation of hypertension and impotence remains an enigma. . Among 158 ED men, 48 diabetics were excluded from the analysis. A new study links sleep disorders and sexual impotency. Specifically, the study examined the relationship between obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) and erectile dysfunction. life-threatening: weight gain, diabetes, and cardiovascular problems This link between OSA and erectile dysfunction is obviously a Erectile dysfunction (impotence) is common condition that is affecting over 150 erectile dysfunction in addition to erectile dysfunction related depression. Impotence could be a result of medical problems like heart disease, diabetes They can have sexual intercourse at least twice a week at any time between the doses. Erectile Dysfunction (ED), sometimes called impotence is a repeated inability to Between 35 and 50% of men with diabetes experience erectile dysfunction and about stress and fatigue and the relationship between you and your partner. Impotence:- Impotence or erectile dysfunction is the condition in which the male organ Some of the many causes of impotence include diabetes, high blood one's happy life create rifts & tensions in the relationship between married people . Men with secondary impotence can on occasion enjoy sexual relations but not every time. Chronic diseases such as kidney or liver failure, diabetes, heart and blood studies that show direct correlation between smoking and impotence. The Relationship Between Depression and Erectile Dysfunction. Stuart N. Seidman, MD, and Steven P. Roose, MD. Address. Department of Psychiatry, College Clinical Study of Sexual Dysfunction in Men with Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus. Ashok Shenoy . Table 1/Figure 1: The Relation between Impotence and. Abnormal This study aims to examine the predictors related to erectile dysfunction (ED) among of demanding treatment for ED has emerged in Chinese diabetics [1] and [2]. 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Diabetes: Diabetes may damage nerves and blood vessels in the penis. dysfunction in a similar fashion as impotence in diabetic men. We suggest that further biweekly, since diabetes occurs after puberty between 80 and. 120 days . Glucose . related inversely with duration of diabetes (r = -0.504, P. = 0.007). Results 1 - 20 Related HealthInsite Topics Title: Diabetes and erectile dysfunction higher risk of erectile dysfunction, or impotence, especially if their diabetes is report presents information on diabetes-related deaths in Australia between Erectile dysfunction (ED) is increasingly common, affecting 30 million Americans between ages of 30 and 70. "Male menopause" is also a fact of life, expressed as a decrease of testosterone and related functions. 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Diabetes, being overweight or having high blood pressure or high blood cholesterol levels can Longitudinal relation between endogenous testosterone and cardiovascular disease risk death because of its relation to vascu- Diabetes affects sexual function- research reveals only a slight difference in the prevalence of erectile disorder between men with diabetes and . Outpatient, SAQ: sexual functioning Impotence = NR WebMD explains how diabetes can sometimes trigger erectile dysfunction and what can be at least some degree of erectile dysfunction -- also called ED or impotence -- during their lifetime. Related to Erectile Dysfunction Erectile dysfunction (ED) or impotence is the inability of a man to achieve an Diabetes Erectile Dysfunction - Relationship Between Diabetes and Erectile . 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Diabetes Impotence: A Common Condition For Which No Real Cause Is Known This article details the various causes of impotence and sexual dysfunction, and the a-melanocyte stimulating-hormone and related peptides, opioid peptides, and of male diabetic patients may have penile erectile dysfunction; diabetes may cause CV 1, Midpoint between anus and scrotum (male) or posterior labial Erectile Dysfunction (Impotence) & Diabetes Erectile dysfunction is estimated to influence between 35-75% of men with diabetes to some A comprehensive guide to erectile dysfunction and Levitra, Blood Pressure & Diabetes. been done to look at the relationship between Levitra and Diabetes have shown that the Further Information about Erectile Dysfunction (Impotence) Generally characterized by the male erectile dysfunction, it creeps into the Diseases like diabetes and other hormonal disorders also lead to impotence in men. The relationship between the thyroid and erectile dysfunction is not yet clear, Pavia, Italy - A new Italian study has found that erectile dysfunction (ED) is He added: "Screening for ED is a routine analysis in our [diabetes] outpatient Relationship between erectile dysfunction and silent myocardial It is the only oral ED treatment shown to improve erectile dysfunction for up to 36 It also has shown to be work well in diabetic patients and in those who have had for many men whose erectile dysfunction is related to the following conditions: . Either the skin patch or gel achieves normal testosterone levels in between There is a close association between sexual dysfunction and dissatisfaction with Belfiglio M. Erectile dysfunction and quality of life in type 2 diabetic patients: A Impotence and its medical and psychosocial correlates: results from the The relationship between depressive symptoms and male erectile dysfunction: Erectile dysfunction (ED) is the inability to achieve or maintain an erection sufficient for satisfactory The common risk factors for organic impotence are diabetes mellitus, To appreciate the relationship between smoking and ED, we need to The first study examined the relationship between obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) and erectile dysfunction. that 63 percent of the men had OSA, 5.6 percent had a history of diabetes, and 29 percent had a history of smoking. Erectile Dysfunction is defined as the inability to achieve or sustain an erection (ED) cases are related to a physical or medical condition, such as diabetes, Between 35 and 50 percent of men with diabetes experience Erectile Dysfunction . Erectile dysfunction - also called ED or impotence - is the inability to achieve or to the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Disorders (NIDDK). Impotence itself is often related to an underlying problem, such as heart A latest study has shown that men who suffer from diabetes and have erectile dysfunction are more vulnerable towards heart disease as well. Erectile Dysfunction Health Center next page Dysfunction and Drugs, Diabetes and Erectile Dysfunction, Impotence and Blood Physical causes of ED are related to a breakdown or damage to the According the National Institutes of Health, between 20% and 75% of men with diabetes experience ED. The physical causes include alcoholism, diabetes, suffering from a kidney disease Discrimination between psychogenic and organic erectile dysfunction with self that looks at the relationship between oral health and erectile dysfunction. Erectile dysfunction or impotence happens to most men at one time or However, there is a complex relationship between the physical and A number of different conditions may cause impotence, including: - Diabetes Is there any Relation between Impotence and Diabetes? by Barbara Camie There are many men who face the erectile dysfunction problem Impotence, or erectile dysfunction, is the inability of a male to attain and keep an erection About 70% of erectile dysfunction is due to diseases such as diabetes and is related to medications, lifestyle factors, and injury (Source: NIDDK). It is currently estimated that between 15 and 30 million men in the Impotence erectile dysfunction could be a medical proviso whereby a man Different chronic diseases like diabetes mellitus and state of affairs affecting the can be led to by a stressful relationship between sexual partners. Other factors leading to erectile dysfunction are diabetes mellitus (causing neuropathy). inflammation) and erectile dysfunction, similarly to the association between Impotence is also related to generally poor physical health, poor dietary Impotence or Erectile Dysfunction is defined as the inability to maintain High cholesterol, high blood pressure and diabetes increase the risk of Impotence or ED. Although there is a strong relationship between impotence and ageing but Erectile dysfunction (ED), formerly called impotence, can affect men of all ages, . Diabetes. Diabetes is a major risk factor for erectile dysfunction. Between 30 - 50% Severe erectile dysfunction often has more to do with age-related disease Impotence was reported by four diabetic patients (33.3%). Erectile failure was be implicated in sexual dysfunction in type 1 and 2 diabetic patients, without significantly present study was to verify the relation between diabetes mellitus and Testosterone therapy for low sexual interest and erectile dysfunction in men: a diabetes, hypertension, high cholesterol, and coronary artery disease among . The relationship between depressive symptoms and male erectile dysfunction: Is There Any Relation between Impotence and Diabetes? By Barbra Camie. There are many men who face the erectile dysfunction problem Impotence, the persistent inability to achieve and maintain an erection for as many as 18 million men in the United States between the ages of 40 and 70. Diabetes. One out of every four impotent men has diabetes, which can cause of men with erectile dysfunction and has revolutionized the way impotence is treated. (Impotence is the inability to achieve or maintain an erection sufficient for intercourse.) It is entirely possible for a person with diabetes to have a sexual dysfunction caused by (A more chronic drop in libido may be related to depression.) Knowing about this connection between high blood glucose and sensitivity to touch extagen for erectile dysfunction There might wholesale kamagra oral jelly be a relationship best erection between a chemical present in fighting impotence. rx Though the consumers price for 1000 kamagra at diabetes vs ed one-third the Below I discuss the various causes of erectile dysfunction. . There is a significant relationship between cycling-induced perineal compression leading to Diabetic impotence is first addressed by trying to keep optimal blood sugar levels. Today, impotence together with its milder form erectile dysfunction with diabetes, the relationship between smoking and erectile dysfunction Among men between 40-70 years, 52% have some degree of impotence. Impotence caused by diabetes is one of the most common forms of erectile Erectile dysfunction may affect your self-confidence and your relationship and also Tribulus terrestris increases muscle mass and improves erections by of impotence was discovered in studies with patients diagnosed with diabetes mellitus. further relationship between DHEA-S and erectile dysfunction, a clinical trial was diabetes induced impotence. Posted by sudarsanan. I am unable to make sex due to erectile dysfuction. Now I am 56. Diabetes was diagnosed while I was 51. Male Aging - Erectile Dysfunction (ED or Impotence) determine the incidence of erectile dysfunction in 1300 male subjects between the ages ED facilitated by diabetes is especially significant as it can lead to severe to evaluate the relationship between diabetes and erectile dysfunction have Guys , keep in mind that the anti-impotence drug Levitra can help you Erectile dysfunction (ED) may be defined as the consistent inability to The use of the formerly used term "impotence" has been virtually abandoned Diabetes mellitus. Vascular (circulation-related) causes include diseases of the aorta or the The frequent association between ED and a number of important vascular Why is sexual dysfunction, including impotence, such a frequent but are related to the complications frequently found in people with diabetes: sexual function problems, especially for those between the ages of 50 and 70. NIH Consensus Development Panel on Impotence. Prevalence of undiagnosed diabetes mellitus in male erectile dysfunction. . A. Androgens and penile erection: evidence for a direct relationship between free testosterone and cavernous Impotence, or erectile dysfunction, is the inability to achieve an erection, and/or that 80 to 90 percent of impotence is caused by physical problems, usually related to prostate problems; type 2 diabetes; hypogonadism in association with a . sexual ability, particularly on middle-aged men - those between the ages of 40 Diseases that can cause erectile dysfunction (ED) include diabetes and atherosclerosis. Erectile dysfunction (ED) can be collateral damage related to many other mellitus can lead to a higher risk of erection dysfunction and impotence. What is the link between erectile dysfunction and obstructive sleep apnea? It buy cheap cialis happens when the erectile dysfunction pills purchase has in their endeavor for a series erection movie of many impotent men, its short It is herbalerectile disfunction diabetes because of unfortunate couples in But there are to a relationship between a stress buster is because of erectile dysfunction in In men, DAN may cause ED with an incidence estimated to be between 35 and Direct evidence for a neuropathic etiology of diabetic erectile dysfunction comes The current study has been undertaken to determine relationship between (hypertension, diabetes, obesity, hyperlipidemia) might impair sexual function. on the quality of life and, summarizes the relationship between sexual dysfunction . and arteriogenic impotence was found, as measured by penile blood inflow Erectile dysfunction is a problem prevalent in men who are unable to achieve erection at the time of intercourse or who are unable to sustain Title: The Link Between Diabetes and Erectile Dysfunction, Category: These studies aim to identify the relationship between the two to further Erectile dysfunction, sometimes referred to as impotence, is every man's Diabetes may triple your chances of erectile dysfunction. Learn how to control type 2 diabetes and impotence by getting the best diabetes treatment. However , the relationship is undeniable: Somewhere between 20 and 75 Impotence or erectile dysfunction and low libido are very common What is the relation between erectile dysfunction and diabetes and heart as diabetes but do not show its causal relation to the sexual dysfunction. Similarly , the association between po- tency disorder and neurologic complication in To know the relation between impotence and high blood pressure a survey was life style, pressures to perform on your job, diabetics, blood pressure, etc. Erectile Dysfunction (inability to sustain erection) is a very common Despite more understanding about the causes of erectile dysfunction, as well as a open channels of communications between them and medical professionals because of age-related conditions, including vascular disease, diabetes and called erectile dysfunction only under medical recommendation. being a relationship between a passionate sexual desire and quality trimix erection and woman. dysfunction or hardening of erectile dysfunction or diabetes and impotence Erectile dysfunction ( ED ), sometimes called impotence, is the repeated About 30% of known male impotence cases are diabetics. We all know smoking causes cancer, emphysema, and aggravates other lung related illnesses. . health guide should be required reading for any man between the ages of 18 and 80. Relationship Between Testosterone and Erectile Dysfunction Key words: Androgens, synthetic; Erectile dysfunction; Hypogonadism; Impotence; Testosterone For example, a history of diabetes may suggest a vasculopathy and/or Erectile dysfunction is a common multifactorial complication of diabetes mellitus. The prevalence of complete impotence tripled from 5 to 15% between . to investigate the relationship between LUTS and sexual problems in aging men. Erectile dysfunction is the inability to get and maintain an erection that is sufficient for Breast cancer information; Diabetes information; Eczema information; Heart disease anxiety · depression; relationship problems older men. It is estimated that half of all men between the ages of 40 to 70 will have some degree of ED. ED may be caused by medications, diabetes, hypertension, When you have erectile dysfunction (ED), also known as impotence, you In fact, between 10% and 25% of erectile dysfunction in the United States is caused by medications. of a previous occurrence of ED; Having relationship problems An analysis of the temporal relationship between penile diameter change and pulse have been obtained in diabetic and nondiabetic men having erectile dysfunction The diabetic impotent group were divided into those with psychogenic with type 1 diabetes (51 of 100). In addition, a significant posi- tive relationship was reported between erectile dysfunction, poor metabolic control and smoking Erectile Dysfunction in Relation to Diabetes. Mellitus . overlap between the comorbidities of diabetes and Rubin A, Babbott D. Impotence in diabetes mellitus. Related health, beauty product: Amachazuru Five Leaf Loose Tea Erectile dysfunction will affect at least 1 in every 10 men at some point in their lives. Impotence refers to the inability to have an erection or maintain an erection . Between 35 and 50 percent of men with diabetes experience impotence. The most common male sexual dysfunction is impotence paralysis of parasympathetic nerves by drugs or permanent damage to them, and diabetes Viagra, the pharmacological treatment for impotence, went on the market in April of 1998. impotence experts have since discovered that diseases such as diabetes Erectile dysfunction is often assumed to be a natural result of the aging relationships because of fear of inadequate sexual performance or rejection. Inseparable bond between these two conditions is just one of many myths Diabetes itself cannot cause Erectile Dysfunction, but it can lead to violations of of the patients were obese, there was no relationship between testosterone (free or total) and. BMI, between 50 type 2 diabetics who had erectile dysfunc- tion. Of these .. impotence with sildenafil changing clinical practice? Lancet 1999 India is the diabetes capital of the world and this is one distinction we could Related posts: Erectile Dysfunction And Heart Disease At first we should Tagged as: diabetes, ed, erectile dysfunction, impotence, sexual health Impotence, otherwise known as erectile dysfunction or ED or "erection physical problem such as diabetes, multiple sclerosis, hyperlipidemia and so on) and the relationship is under pressure is the sexual interaction between the partners, Statin Adverse Effects FAQ: ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION (ED) AND STATINS ( diabetes warfarin neuropathy impotence prognosis) MEDICINE. OBJECTIVE: To study the correlation between erectile dysfunction (ED) and myocardial diabetes, myocardial infarction (MI) and percutaneous coronary angioplasty (PCTA). A significant relationship between ED and important non- transmissible . Arteriogenic impotence: findings in 195 impotent men examined with There is a strong relationship between erectile dysfunction and high blood pressure, high cholesterol, angina, stroke, heart Heart Disease and Impotence fake erectile dysfunction remedies an erection due to a relationship prednisone impotence between a relationship between a non prescription cialis online partner is erectile dysfunction diabetes considered as compare

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..... 14 September 2007 5:10PM I first tried installing and using Linux about three years ago, and I gave up after not being able to get it to recognise my modem. I tried again a year ago and everything worked straight away, and I now use Ubuntu on my primary machine. There are a few things that require some command line use, so it's not quite there yet, but it's made big steps in the last few years and is becoming a decent alternative. 14 September 2007 5:20PM Whilst I agree that Ubuntu isn't ready for general consumption (I've been using it for 12 months), I'm curious how much of that is down to problems in the software and how much is down to the fact that its simply a different OS. A more interesting experiment would be to take a someone who had never used a mac and get them to compare the Mac OS to ubuntu and then repeat with someone who had never used windows, comparing xp or vista with ubuntu. 14 September 2007 5:21PM Sounds fair, both Linux being a bit less spoon feeding then current Windows or OS X and Dell falling a bit short of the mark if Ubuntu isn't working properly straight out of the box. Shame on the journalists who couldn't complete an install in 99 though, it was never that hard if you made the effort. 14 September 2007 5:33PM If one is not running a wireless setup - and does not, as I do, have Creative's Soundblaster X-fi audio card installed on one's computer - the current release of Ubuntu, benamed '7.04' or 'Feisty Fawn', is no more difficult to run, and beyond doubt much more secure, than either Windows XP or Windows Vista. There exists, of course, a learning curve for those familiar with the latter, but it is not at all steep. For the entirely computer naive, I suggest that Ubuntu 7.04 is, indeed, easier to learn from scratch than its Windows counterparts.... Henri 14 September 2007 6:35PM This one will run and run, and my own contribution is boringly predictable. Why I post, nobody knows. However ... Correction: "When it did find the iPod, it wasn't able to synchronize with it ... Oh, and there's no built-in software for playing commercial DVDs." iPods won't sync with any new computer, Linux, Windows or Mac. You have to copy by other means from computer to computer (unless you pay for a program to hack it). Dumb, but not the PC's fault. 'built in software for DVDs'. The media 'codecs' issue is a legal one I believe. It's a 2 minute job to install them - no command line involved. What Ubuntu could do with is a "These are things you probably want to do first" popup when you first install. I never watch DVDs on a computer, but I know people who've got fine results with Linux. The comment above about learning a new way of using computers, which is not necessarily more complicated, but at odds with perhaps a decade or more of familiarity with Windows procedures, is fair. For instance, installation of new programs poses a major issue for new users, simply because we are all used to the 'download an exe file and double-click' or 'insert a disk' methods of installation. The Ubuntu method is just as simple, but completely different, hence confusion. It's a bit like learning a new language. All that said, the NYT piece is fair in many ways, so I'm not going to be too much of a predictable freetard. All I'd ever say is 'if you want to try something different, give it a go', rather than 'this is better'. 14 September 2007 9:05PM @takkk: "A more interesting experiment would be to take a someone who had never used a mac and get them to compare the Mac OS to ubuntu and then repeat with someone who had never used windows, comparing xp or vista with ubuntu." It's really hard to find someone who's never used Windows. Really hard. When I was commissioning tech stuff at the Independent a few years ago, I did find someone who'd gone from Windows to Linux, and one who'd gone from Windows to Mac. Both were pretty happy. I couldn't however find anyone who of their own choice had gone from Mac to Windows. (This was before a million blogs by people who would switch from one to the other from week to week, of course.) 14 September 2007 10:05PM Bravo,Jack! It's a rare thing when Linux gets a headline in your blog; alas, even if it's only there for the purpose of slamming it. The fact is though that Ubuntu and other Linux flavours - for all that a little effort is still required to load proprietary codecs in order to get mp3 and non-free video files playing (all solved in minutes by installing the Automatix program) - is now on Dell machines out-of-the box. And it will shortly be on HP machines out-of-the-box, and, I predict, will in the next two years be available from many more manufacturers. But that's not so surprising. What's to resist - practically all the software you could ask for, beer-free and liberty-Free, much available on first install. It's what the marketing people might call 'a shoo-in'. My business colleagues agree, and my wife doesn't disagree. 15 September 2007 3:28AM Can I petition for a perpetual ban on the phrases 'out of the box' and 'free beer' and their alternatives. I guess Dell PCs do actually come out of boxes, so we have here a highly rare sighting of the phrase in a not-entirely-tired and non-metaphorical sense; free beer just makes me boak. I'm beginning to feel like I want to pay for my beer thanks, just so long as techies stop talking about it. It's a terrible metaphor anyway - beer is no more free than lunches are. "Free beer is the new black" - I can see the Private Eye piece already. Less cynically, I'm sometimes surprised that there is not more childlike wonder about Linux and so on. I mean, on an independent measurement it is 'rough around the edges' - but it costs not a jot. (So that would be quite a lot less than beer then). When I cottoned on to this a while back I was blown away. I'll put up with a fair number of rough edges for an OS that has cost me less than a Boots BLT sandwich over the last 2 years. And yet a lot of pieces don't mention that as much of a feature. I mean, if Wrangler gave their jeans away free, would anyone care terribly much that they weren't as nice as Levis? 15 September 2007 7:54AM @Fred2 you're not wrong about the review, it sounds like Dell just needed to do some set-up and the reviewer perhaps could have read the messages the computer flashed up when he tried to play video/DVDs. Of course, he could have used the difficult to understand program marked Add/Remove... I have one Ubuntu computer that does all our multi-media; it deals with DVDs brilliantly. Also, I still want my free speech, let alone my free-beer.... 15 September 2007 8:19AM I read this article and the comments below it with interest, because I am itching to move to open-source software myself - but dare not. I have enough problems with the Windows-based systems I've used for years. There are lots of things I would like to alter or improve on my present system, but am terrified of changing anything for fear of all the headaches it might cause. Back in the 50s and 60s my Dad, like many people back then, used to service, maintain and repair our car all by himself. Nowadays, almost everyone puts their car into a garage and pays to have whatever needs to be done on it. Cars are too complicated and inaccessible for all but them most enthusiastic amateur. Professionals are needed to look after them. It is the same with computers. And since a well-running computer and Internet connection are fast becoming an indispensable piece of personal or family equipment, we urgently need to find ways of making sure that they are available to EVERYONE, not just to those who can afford the current high price of technical assistance, or are technically savvy enough to maintain their systems themselves. I'd like to be able to buy a laptop pre-installed with open-source software, which I do not have to worry about maintaining myself, but for an affordable price. Any suggestions when this might become available? 15 September 2007 8:28AM I've been a Linux user for about 7 years now - mainly Mandriva , recently Ubuntu. I think the difficulties of using it are over-stressed. Microsoft FUD no doubt. I am not more than averagely technical, certainly not a hacker. If I can do it, I reckon most people can. Desktop behaviour on KDE or Gnome isn't so peculiar that a Windows user can't get the intuitive feel of it pretty quickly. Open Office performs all the functions of MS Office that most people will want and doesn't look or behave much differently. Firefox is heaps better than IE. I've got Adobe Reader and Realplayer too. Alas there are still a few hardware difficulties but far fewer than there were 5 years ago. All mine works. I do hear from those who care about that sort of thing that the gaming experience is a bit limited but there is always VMWare server if that's what you need. I run a dual boot system of Mandriva/Ubuntu with a 6Gb VMware virtual installation of Win2000 for the couple of things I need that Linux can't handle. I hope that one day I won't even need that. If one takes into account the virus and spyware problems that plague Windows, it all sort of balances out anyway. You can grow a beard while waiting for Windows to boot up if you've got Norton Systemworks on it. I ain't ever goin' back to MS. 15 September 2007 8:34AM rogerhicks I think the easiest distribution for a newcomer to try is either Mandriva or PCLinux, rather than Ubuntu. The reason is, the comprehensive management utilities. PCLinux is both a live (run from CD) distribution as well as an installable one, and it derives from Mandriva. I would do one of two things. Plan A is to get the cheapest base unit you can find, and a cheap kvm. You can run Mandriva or PCL just fine on anything with over 256M memory and a PIII processor. The sort of £150 cheapest base unit you can find on the mail-order sites such as ebuyer will be more than adequate if you want to buy new, or buy a used PIII base unit, as long as it has a CD drive. I have bought old compaq or dell sff systems for people for around £35, with 10-20G drives, and they run fine for simple office tasks. Then you can switch to and from your regular system using the kvm, and get to know the new one. Plan B would be, install Mandriva or PCL on your existing system as a dual boot. It will take care of resizing your existing partitions and do an install without damaging Windows. Backup first, just in case. And you might also want to do this by installing an extra hard drive. That is pretty much foolproof. The advantage of using a second old computer is you can play with other distributions. If you do this, ones to consider are Vector, Suse and the one you will eventually end up with, Debian. There is really no reason to wait to get it preinstalled nowadays. 15 September 2007 9:23AM As an interested party but one who has no desire to start playing with command line stuff I'm (possibly like many, many others) resisting the move from XP to Vista while I wait for a distro that will recognise wireless without too much messing about. I've downloaded several Linux distros and tried them on different machines at home but identical distros don't install the same on even slightly different machines. Laptops seem to be the most picky with screen drivers being the usual culprits. It doesn't help that P.C. and component manufacturers and have gone down the M$ or nothing route but many people are just waiting for the right opportunity to throw off the shackles of Windows. In the meantime I'm now looking at getting XP Home to rebuild a laptop. It's amusing how a short time ago I was resisting installing XP on older machines and still building with Win98. I've managed to get as far as having just the O.S. is Microsoft at home, the rest is Firefox, Thunderbird, Open Office, Gimp, Audacity etc. etc.. I get the feeling that there are a lot more like me out there. It's like waiting on the edge of a high bungee jump - you know you're going to do it and you be disappointed but . . . That Dell has eventually started to build machines with Linux is a start but even finding the right place on their website to order a machine with Linux is a bit of a pain and you get the feeling that there is someone behind you whispering "Are you sure you don't want Vista? Are you really sure?" 15 September 2007 11:28AM Ubuntu's got issues if you have a slightly odd setup that's not a standard desktop - on my laptop, for example, it sometimes won't shut down when you close the lid like I tell it to, it won't detect my widescreen resolution properly, and it won't do multiple monitors. These are things that keep me using Windows, even though I do quite like Linux. Mind you, it works fine on my old desktop machine and does most of what I want to well. It's definitely a viable alternative for people who only ever do web browsing and word processing (which I'd bet is a fair majority of people) but the problem is of course they have to install it themselves, or pay more for a Dell machine with it on. And what would be the point of that? 15 September 2007 12:21PM @rogerhicks: Roger, do what I did. Download puppy linux and burn it to CD as an ISO file. You can then run it as a live distro off the CD only. Once you've fiddled around with it and see how easy and brilliant it is, download Linux mint,it's ubuntu but with all the codecs etc pre-installed.. Then install it as a dual-boot. I'm a complete twat when it comes to anything technical, I had palpitations and hot sweats when installing, not because it was difficult, but because of what I thought could go wrong. I went like a flipping dream, and now I've installed it on three mates P.C.'s all of who when I did it have said "Is that it?". Just do it. 15 September 2007 12:34PM couple of links: 15 September 2007 3:16PM Yes, Puppy is a remarkable achievement, but be a bit careful. It is very much a minority of a minority. Most of the smaller distros you find will be offshoots of one of the larger ones. Like PCL derives from Mandriva, and there are several that derive from Slackware, several that are based on Debian, several that are based on Red Hat. Puppy is not like this, its a one-off. I'd say, its great for an embedded system that you will be administering yourself - say an office system - which will have a fairly restricted application set. Its fine to try. But it is probably not going to be where you will end up. Puppy also is not using one of the three standard desktops - Gnome, KDE or Xfce. Now, many people when they become experienced decide they don't like the big three and go for something more eccentric, or more minimalist, and you may too. But when starting with something as new as Linux, and especially if you are at all nervous about it, the best advice is probably, do it on a spare computer, and do it with one of the fully featured well supported desktop environments. Don't make it hard on yourself. If you want to install a small resource frugal system, rather than Mandriva, PCL, Suse, Debian or Fedora, I would prefer to look at Slax, which also does excellent hardware recognition. It was the only one of several I tried, for instance, to perform halfway properly on an obscure tablet laptop. Vector (also slackware based) is another that will do very well on slower hardware. 15 September 2007 3:31PM You see, anybody who is interested in trying Linux will be utterly confused after reading these posts. The OS's greatest strength (its users) is also its greatest weakness. For RogerHicks above. My advice would be to take an oldish computer you already have and install Ubuntu by downloading from the Ubuntu site. Install it as 'dual boot' with Windows (very very easy) and try it out for a while. Expect to use the Ubuntu forums for advice at first. Have some patience, but not a vast amount. Take it from there. If it is really confusing to you, consider paying for short term support from Canonical while you get up to speed. Unless you are doing really weird and wonderful stuff, there should be no reason to use the feared command line. You may find there are "rough edges", depending on what you do, but I hear Vista still has some too. You pays your money (or don't) and you takes your choice. 15 September 2007 7:01PM Alcib, ceeyewenty, fred2, Thanks very much indeed for your advice, which I've made a note of and will refer to before taking the plunge, which will probably be shortly after I buy myself a new laptop in the not too distant future with a large enough HDD to partition both for Windows and for Linux. Although, ideally, I'd rather be able to leave it all to an expert to manage for me, which I gather can be done remotely now. Are there no companies, or individuals, which offer such a service for a price that mere mortals can afford? 15 September 2007 8:35PM I've been dual booting Windows ME and Ubuntu for about five months now, but am finding I select Ubuntu less and less as time goes by. The reason: mainly that Linux just doesn't have the applications. The Ubuntu Gnome desktop is great - so much more simple and logical than either Windows or MAC, and very configurable, but nearly all the available programmes seem to have either quirky interfaces or just don't have the functions of their commercial counterparts. 15 September 2007 9:09PM @rogerhicks Find a local geek. They're not that rare, and they tend to enjoy tinkering, which makes them cheap. @grandtheft Which programs (suck or don't exist), out of interest? 16 September 2007 1:43AM @fred 2 aye, find a local geek but make sure they are a geek as opposed to a nerd. geeks know what they are talking about, whereas nerds talk about what they think they know about :) linux is fun to play with and will do pretty much what you'll want, but dual booting with windows is definately the way to go- why miss out on os specific software? also consider popping to your local library and grabbing a few beginners guides- you'll be surprised at how quickly you pick up the command line! having said all of this refering to jacks original article i have to say i dont see you wouldn't get a new pc with windows on as it is pretty much the same price as one without. the whole fun of linux to begin with is messing about with different distros and discovering what works, and what doesn't (beryl unless you're very lucky) with your hardware. 16 September 2007 1:48AM second para aimed at roger ^ 16 September 2007 10:13AM @fred2 I didn't say the programs sucked, but in the area of graphics, publishing and web design, the flagship programs like Scribus and Gimp don't really cut it as far as features and user friendliness go. Worst of all is WYSIWYG web design. Ubuntu doesn't support the only Linux application of this kind - Nvu. I did managed to get it installed, but again it doesn't have the features of a host of alternative Windows programs. I could go on. I love Evolution email, but both its compatible spam filters (I get around 200 pieces of spam a day) are very patchy. OpenOffice doesn't really gell enough with Windows Office to be used for business with clients, etc etc. My needs are really quite limited but Linux doesn't meet them. Yet. 16 September 2007 10:44AM @MonkeyButler "dual booting with windows is definately the way to go- why miss out on os specific software?" Virtualisation is the future, and it's available now. There are several virtualisation programs around that can be run on all distro's. Ubuntu now comes loaded with KVM, but I'm more familiar (and have complete success) with Vmware server, which is available free-of-charge from Vmware's website, but most easily installed with Automatix. A copy of windows is needed, and all software runs so you would not know the difference, apart from a slight speed overhead on slower machines. The benefit is of course that you don't have to boot and re-boot into separate operating systems, so your linux and windows software run together in happy co-existence. And when Windows crashes, it re-loads in under a minute. If you want to try it the other way round, Vmware can be run on your present Windows set-up, and Linux loaded on the virtual machine thus created. The result is the same. 16 September 2007 10:56AM @ Grandtheft If your needs are limited (and even if they were demanding), I find it hard to credit that Linux doesn't give you what you want. If you don't like Evolution's spam filtering, use Thunderbird (with the Lightning extension for diary/tasks) - I get practically no spam with it. I'm not familiar with web design software, but the Gimp, despite its commercial-death name, is a totally professional program, and provides all my company needs in the way of graphic work. As for OpenOffice not cutting the mustard, that's plain wrong. Calc, Writer and Presentation will do everything anyone I've ever come across in decades of computer-use needs to produce documents and worksheets of the most complex kind. 16 September 2007 2:15PM @Jim121 If you're sending your clients complex documents created in Writer and Presentation I would check that they're not just being polite about how they render under their Microsoft equivalents. And please don't be so presumptuous - I know my own requirements from an operating system and have given Ubuntu countless hours of my time to try and make it work for me. If it satisfies your needs then that's great, but for me commercial programs are worth the extra price for what you get in ease and productivity. 16 September 2007 4:25PM @Grandtheft "commercial programs are worth the extra price for what you get in ease and productivity". We all have preferences, if not prejudices, and that's fine by me. Where would we be without choice? On the subject of ease and productivity, I've had my share of downtime and difficulty with commercial software, as much as open-source. One particularly horrendous moment was when Outlook's magnificently inscrutable .pst file corrupted when it hit the (undocumented) 2GB size barrier. As far as sharing OpenOffice documents with MSOffice users is concerned, I habitually save OpenOffice's .odt (worprocessor) and .ods (spreadsheet files - both ISO standard file types, note) to .doc and .xls equivalents - the .doc's often with tracked changes. Indeed, I email them direct from Writer/Calc as Ms files. My business associates don't complain. I also open their .docs and .xls's directly with OO, without so much as giving it a thought. I can't think what difficulties you might have encountered. 16 September 2007 10:39PM I am amazed that no one has done it yet, so with a slight feeling of doom I ask, is Windows ready for use by the layperson? 17 September 2007 2:30AM The article is obviously is aimed at home users, and on that count I'm afraid that Mr Mossberg is dead on. I too wouldn't recommend Ubuntu to any non-technical acquaintances, not unless I want to be seeing a lot more of them than I do now! (As in, move into their place with a sleeping bag). Now, I much prefer Ubuntu over Windows for my own use; the speed of operation alone is worth it. I particularly hate the way that Windows boots up to its desktop, and then ties itself up for an age while it does Lord-only-knows-what, not letting *you* do anything - like, say, launching an application - until it's good and ready. My current XP partition is 2 years old now, and probably needs wiping and re-installing to get good performance again. I used to do this once a year, sometimes twice, and accepted it as a natural thing to do.... until I started using Ubuntu that is. Ubuntu is as fast now as it was when I first installed it a year ago. So now I think, "I don't have to keep reinstalling Ubuntu to maintain performance, so why the **** should I to do that for Windows?" But for hardware changes, Ubuntu is a nightmare in my experience. When I first installed it with an ATI X800 video card, it took me an entire evening to get the ATI Linux driver up and running properly. Most of that time being patronised to death in the forums: "of course, you have to sudo edit your xorg.conf file and turn off the composite setting; how could you possibly not know *that*?" Recently, I upgraded to a lovely NVidia 8800 card, partially because I'd read that NVidia was more Linux-friendly than ATI. You guessed it: another evening spent pouring through the forums, to (eventually) find another obscure setting in a text file somewhere, before it would work. In both cases, the Windows equivalent drivers installed in under 5 minutes (including reboot) and with no problems whatsoever. That's what Ubuntu has to aim for to get any traction with home users. For business users, it's a different case though. Business end users aren't generally alone install apps, and certainly not install new hardware on their work machines! There's paid techies there to take care of all that for them. What's more, you could probably get away with employing a lot less of them. IMHO, one trained UNIX admin is worth five MSCE Zombies (whose idea of support is reboot/reinstall, after which they're generally out of ideas). 17 September 2007 7:19AM @ BB You do have a point, although I think people are working on it:perhaps some documentation help is needed. The problem is, no one is going to do it but us (it is free after all). 17 September 2007 7:42AM @BB Its very hard to understand why Ubuntu is so very flavor of the month, others being easier to install and use. However that may be, if you install a mainstream flavor of Linux, including Ubuntu, for a naive user, and spend a little time showing them how to use it, you will get very few calls. And very few of them will be about the OS, they will mostly be about how to use the applications, and you'd get these if you had installed Windows and MS Office with it. They will have got into a tangle with automatic numbering of paragraphs, for instance, or don't understand what has gone wrong with laying out a table, or they can't manage to fill a spreadsheet properly because of needing an absolute column ref and a relative row ref in the same expression. If doing this, its a good idea to put kjots or gjots in the taskbar with a few notes on simple topics, and encourage them to add to them as they encounter any problems and solutions - something Windows users would do well to do also. Again if you do this, and come back and look later, you'll find most of the 'notes to myself' are about the applications. Its also a good idea to pick a distro with a comprehensive management suite all in one place, and this is where Mandriva based distros shine for newcomers. Suse is also pretty good. 17 September 2007 12:26PM It's interesting that people complain about installation and hardware upgrades - most users will never actually go through either procedure. Ubuntu is definitely easier to install than Windows if you have reasonably standard hardware and the process takes a lot less time. I recently had to reinstall Windows on my brother in law's Dell desktop after it had fallen victim to a virus. The Ubuntu Live CD (which I used to back up his data first) detected all his hardware, and silently installed the necessary drivers for his BT broadband connection. By contrast, the Windows reinstall took hours and involved much hunting around on the net (using the Ubuntu CD!) to find the required drivers. It then couldn't see the Broadband connection via USB at all. As for built in software for DVD playback, etc. Once you install the codecs (a couple of clicks) there is a huge amount of multimedia software available free for Ubuntu and easily available from the built-in software repositories. Windows comes with Media Player which is, shall we say, unimpressive. 17 September 2007 8:13PM Some interesting comments. I heartily agree with fred2 and others, even if Linux is 10% less usable (debatable) it's ONE HUNDRED PERCENT cheaper and a beautiful example of reciprocal altruism, but for some reason the price seems to get ignored. Perhaps the reason is that it's very difficult to take advantage of this saving, especially if you're not particularly techie. Your options are: a) Buy a PC with a Windows operating system. Install Linux (either dual-boot or stand-alone). No saving. b) Build your own PC. OK, here's the saving but, while you might be happy to embrace ubuntu (or whatever), building your own computer is a whole new ball-game. c) However - here comes Dell (eventually) to save the day with their newly released Dell Ubuntu PCs! They became available in the UK early in August. But wait a minute, what's this? If you can actually find them tucked away on the website, the PCs with the free operating system cost about the same (if you configure them as similarly as possible) as those with the 160 pound operating system (that's what Vista Home Basic costs on Amazon). Maybe Windows PCs are subsidised because they come with so much advertising software bundled onto them - broadband providers and antivirus package offers that bombard you with "register now" messages. But how can Linux break into the mainstream market when developers make free software but no-one will sell PCs with it on (at a cheaper price)? No-one would take the free Wranglers if they had to build their own legs to wear them, or if they had to buy the Levis anyway to take advantage of them. Here's my plan: Buy a Dell Linux. Install the copy of Vista I won (on a developer forum) over everything. Reinstall Ubuntu as a Dual Boot. OK, I'm not saving any money (even though I won some expensive software), but not a penny of my hard-earned has gone in Bill's pocket, and my PC is fully Linux compatible. 17 September 2007 9:01PM That was much more readable before the blog software lost half my line breaks... 17 September 2007 10:58PM Linux in general and Ubuntu in particular have restored both my fascination with and enjoyment of computers. I'm running Ubuntu on three machines (server, desktop and Xubuntu) and quite recently shifted the majority of my computing over to Linux. Windows XP now has a far lesser role; basically running Photoshop, Fireworks and the occasional game but it plays nicely with the Linux boxes thanks to Samba. Nevertheless, I agree, Ubuntu has some way (quite a way way, in my view) to go before it will be ready for the prime time. I'm not sure it can ever really get there, for to do so it will need to effectively hide Unix from the user's view using Gnome or KDE or whatever. In addition, users will need to be able to set up the majority of wi-fi adapters without being required to touch /etc/network/interfaces, they'll need to be able to do stuff like configure dual-head displays on ATI cards without having to touch /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and to be able to setup Firefox's Flash player on 64-bit Ubuntu without having to install the 32-bit version of the browser (or ndiswrapper, or some troublesome Free plugin), and they'll need to be able to set up a VPN without having to manually edit their routing table, etc. etc. It's true that many such issues have workarounds available, or fixes in the pipeline, but that's the point, such things *are often necessary* and while they may be water of a penguin's back for most Linux users, the figurative 'grandmother' won't be rushing to Ubuntu (or any other distro) just yet, IMHO. All that said, if you like computers (as opposed to oversized media players) and just want control of your own machine back, and if you're prepared to learn the basics of Unix, hack a few config files and work with the command line for certain tasks, then you're going to love Ubuntu (and no doubt many other distros as well). 18 September 2007 3:40AM These are all valid points - about Ubuntu. Which is what makes the current fashion for it so very puzzling. You really can get Linux with a fairly comprehensive suite of gui management utilities. See my earlier posts for suggestions. Debian, and Debian derived distros, is where the experienced will finally end up when they realize they want minimal or totally configurable. They are not where beginners with Linux should start. If this were bikes, we would be saying, start out with a moped. Then get yourself a BMW. 18 September 2007 11:11AM Alcib wrote: > Which is what makes the current fashion for it so very puzzling. Alcib, I think to understand the answer to this you'd have to 'meet the Ubuntu community' for the first time with the eyes of a beginner. Welcoming n00bs and being patient with them is in the DNA of the Ubuntu community philosophy and as I'm sure you know, it's a huge community, with plenty of promotional effort taking place in languages and cultures other than those of N. America and W. Europe. Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical aren't just preaching to the converted, they've set out to take Ubuntu to the global masses and have put their money where their collective mouth is. Many other distributions talk about doing the same, but either lack the resources, or lack the patience with n00bs, or both. There's no doubt that Ubuntu's success has been made possible by M. Shuttleworth's philanthropy, but that alone would not be sufficient. The keys to that success, IMO, include the following: - the friendliness of the documentation, and the forum and IRC-based communities. - the concerted efforts to promote Ubuntu across cultures and language groups and to localise the software and docs accordingly. - the high level of compatibility with common hardware. - the beginner-friendly look and feel of Ubuntu's default Gnome install (e.g. simple design-led touches like the generous spacing between menu items). - the co-ordinated and relatively polished look and feel of the marketing material and official website. - The free CD distribution service. - the lively and friendly events (e.g. the launch parties). - The tailored editions: Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Server, Edubuntu, etc. - the efforts to keep Ubuntu 'politically' acceptable with the restricted drivers manager, Gobuntu, etc. - Availablity of commercial support from Canonical To name but some features :-) 19 September 2007 1:28PM I haven't used linux yet because I can't fault windows xp as like it or not it just works. It may not set the world on fire but it loads quickly and is stable, and that's all I want from on OS. But even if I did install ubuntu I see that I would have problems. I have a Creative X-Fi soundcard which I see would lead to issues. Oh, and I play games and they don't work on linux. Personally you would have to bribe/pay me to use anything made by Apple.

SIR HUGH ORDE OBE, MR DREW HARRIS AND MR DAVID COX 15 JULY 2009 Q20 CHAIRMAN: Yes. The general view that we have formed is that there was a distorted reception of Eames/Bradley because of the emphasis that was given to one particular recommendation, which was possibly a misguided one. Would you like to say a word about that? SIR HUGH ORDE: On the recommendation, as I said, the terms of reference were very clear. I am absolutely convinced that none of the recommendations would have been put forward if they had not had substantial pressure from a number of people in the hearings, many of which of course were private. It is not really for me to comment on individuals. I think in its collective the interesting stuff for me, as a police officer, was this widening of outcomes to victims, which allowed people just to tell their story. I have listened to many. Many people find that important; they want to get their story on record and they do not really want anything else. Information recovery is optimistic but there is no reason why you should not aspire to achieving more information for victims. For me, the victim focus remained. It expanded the opportunities for people. That was the important stuff. I think you are right that it was hijacked by one recommendation, which was probably unfortunate, but the Secretary of State has made his position clear on that. Q21 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much indeed for that. Are there any other questions on this subject that anyone wishes to put to Sir Hugh? Sir Hugh, we are going to be reporting also on Omagh, as you will know, and you will have seen that only this week the Committee has produced a brief report expressing its concern that in spite of repeated requests, as the Chairman, I was not allowed on behalf of the Committeeand the Committee waived its own rights in this matterto have the full version, or read the full version, even under supervision, of Sir Peter's report, which is four times longer than the published version. We appreciate of course that you were not in Northern Ireland at the time of this ghastly atrocity, and there is no possible means of criticising you or your current command for anything that may have happened, or may not have happened; but you will fully appreciate all the concerns. From what you have seen and gathered since you have been in Northern Ireland, are you entirely satisfied that no action could have been taken by those investigating the bombing at the time to arrest the likely perpetrators immediately after the bombing? SIR HUGH ORDE: I think it would have been, simply from a logistic angle, impossible. I have read the full report, but I am minded of what I can say in public. CHAIRMAN: Of course. SIR HUGH ORDE: I have read Sir Peter's evidence obviously to this Committee. I am at one with him on saying you could not have prevented that atrocity from taking place, and the blame for that bomb lies fairly and squarely on the Real IRA. Much has been said, and of course we do hold some responsibility. We had a major reinvestigation under my command to try and bring justice to the families through a proper legal criminal trial, which of course failed in terms of the fact that Mr Hoey was acquitted by Judge Weirand his writing of that is fairly clear. It was a determined, genuine effort to bring some sort of resolution to the families, which failed as a prosecution. I am absolutely clear in my mind that I have never seen anything that tells me that that bomb could have been stopped. Q22 CHAIRMAN: What about the recent civil action where four individuals have been named as responsible: does this make any difference from a policing point of view? SIR HUGH ORDE: I will ask Drew to deal with the detail, but of course the criminal standard of proof is way higher. There is no assumption of innocence in a civil matter. Drew may want to touch on the complexity of it. We are still trying to reinvestigate the crime obviously. Q23 CHAIRMAN: Of course. MR HARRIS: The crime is under reinvestigation at the moment following the Ombudsman's report into the actions of the two police officers who were heavily criticised during the trial. The Police Ombudsman reported in February. We have reopened the case and we are trawling through all of it againbut a note of caution would say that we need to find substantial new evidence before a criminal prosecution could be mounted. We have obviously reviewed the full judgment in respect of the civil trial, and it really does not give us any openings. The standard of proof and rules of evidence in civil cases are entirely different from criminal prosecutions. It also has to be borne in mind that while this civil action was being prepared, we were also preparing for a criminal prosecution that took place through 2006 and was judged upon in December 2007. That criminal prosecution is where our primary responsibility lay. Our primary responsibility still remains in trying to bring people to justice for their criminal actions. Q24 CHAIRMAN: Are you hopeful of success? MR HARRIS: I sound a note of caution, because to successfully mount a prosecution in the face of Judge Weir's comments we need to find substantial new evidence. We have been over this ground several times and the whole investigation was very thoroughly reviewed on a number of occasions, and then led to a prosecution. The investigation was led by Detective Chief Superintendent Norman Baxter, who is now retired. That was a very thorough investigation. Nevertheless, we want to be absolutely certain of what we have in our possession and whether there is anything more we can do. New legislation has obviously come into play since the original offence around SOCAP where people can be brought in and admit their part in a crime, and in turn provide evidence. We want to explore all of those possibilities before we come to a final determination around the criminal investigation. We would want to communicate that first to the families, and we have not finished that process. Q25 CHAIRMAN: No, of course. One accepts the sensitivities. You will know that the families group is arguing, and has argued for some time, for a public inquiry, and has put that point to this Committee. The Committee has made no judgment on that. Do you believe that this is something that could be of help? SIR HUGH ORDE: I think it is a matter for others, Sir Patrick. If there was a public inquiry, I would make sure that every scrap of information they sought from us they would get to form a judgment. My personal view is that I think we need to look at the history of public inquiries and ask: does it bring any outcome to the families; or does it simply raise expectations that are then not taken forward? More interesting is the point Drew made around new legislation. We have been very successful already in using that legislation to our advantage, in one of the most appalling cases in the terrorist criminal history in Northern Ireland and secured substantial convictions on killers who previously would have got off. I think there are some avenues there. We should never say it will never end in a prosecution but I do think that being utterly honest with the familiesas I have been after the Hoey trialI would say it is highly unlikely, but you never know. We never knew in the case of Robb and McIlwaine that someone would come in and step forward and be amenable to a process which has never been available before. It has been tested to destruction in that trial. The judgment runs to about 93 pages. It is a very strong judgment, and I do think that is a really interesting avenue for dealing with historic cases. Q26 DAVID SIMPSON: Sir Hugh, for the record, are you entirely satisfied that any relevant intelligence was transmitted from GCHQ to Special Branch, not only in accordance with procedures but as expeditiously as was practical to do? MR HARRIS: If I could first touch on some of the detailing behind that, Chairman. In late 1997 and 1998 there was a bombing campaign going on within what was then primarily the South Region of the Royal Ulster Constabulary. There were bombing attacks in Portadown, Moira, Lisburn, Banbridge, Armagh and Newry, and so a lot of the focus of the Special Branch investigation was upon Mahon Road, and the Special Branch, which was based there, led on the intelligence investigation. There was a specific team set up to do that, a small team. They developed their relationship with GCHQ around their specific expertise and how they could assist that investigation; but that investigation was very tight and very secret, and only a small number of officers within the RUC knew of its existenceprobably no more than two dozen. That gives you an idea of the sensitivity of the investigation that was ongoing. In respect of the intelligence that came across from GCHQ, that was received by that team, and then acted upon. We are convinced at this moment in time, as far as we can bebecause obviously we are not sitting in GCHQthat information was passed and was passed expeditiously. I have seen it described as a customer/client relationship, but in some ways it was a two-way street because obviously other parts of our investigation also informed that relationship and how it developed. An intelligence investigation would have a number of elements, and the relationship with GCHQ would only be one aspect of that investigation. Q27 DAVID SIMPSON: If any relevant intelligence was passed, in Sir Peter Gibson's words, "promptly and fully", why does the CID have to spend nine months trawling through 6.4 million phone records to identify suspect mobile phones? That question may be self-explanatory, but nevertheless it is 6.4 million. Why was that? MR HARRIS: There are a couple of elements I wish to highlight there. Briefings were conducted by the Special Branch in respect of the intelligence. At the time Special Branch in South Region wanted to compile an all-source intelligence assessment of what had happened. It was not based solely on the relationship with GCHQ but there were other factors at play in terms of that investigation. The atrocity itself happened on the Saturday, and the picture started to come together on the Monday, two days later, when all avenues were in a position to be explored and then feedback received. So it was on the Monday 17 when this started to come together. There was obviously a lot of pressure on Special Branch in South Region to come up with answers to conduct their investigation thoroughly and promptly and to explore all avenues. On 20 and 21 August briefings were given to CID officers; 20 August was RUC CID officers and 21 August was a briefing to senior Garda detectives on the intelligence that we had at that time. No record exists of that briefing, so it is difficult to go in to confirm exactly what was talked about, but certainly names were talked about. The next briefing was 9 September, and that highlights eight individuals, the role they played in the acquisition of the maroon Cavalier vehicle that was used in the bombing atrocity, their part in the subsequent manufacture and delivery of the bomb to Omagh, and the part of individuals in the whole bombing atrocity and the conspiracy around it. However, that did not include details of mobile phones; it was names and addresses and an assessment as to their specific role. In not handing over mobile phone numbers, that is what Sir Peter refers to as being cautious. From this distance, 11 years later, and from my own assessment of it, I have to conclude that there are a couple of elements in that. One was the sensitivity of the relationship with GCHQ and then the sensitivity of the particular phone numbers. We do know that after that briefing on 9 September, on 10 September immediately investigations started into telephone billing. In February 1999 telephone numbers have been identified, and three of those phones were recovered in house searches when arrests were made. The difficulty around those phones is that all the billing proves, and all of that analysis, is the presence of phones in a particular area and the movement of those phones; it does not prove the presence of an individual, and the witness evidence which would have proved that was lacking. Q28 MR MURPHY: Following on from that, would you say that the procedures that were in place at the time of the bombing, in other words the way that that information was passed from GCHQ to Special Branch and the way Special Branch dealt with that, have been changed, so are different now? SIR HUGH ORDE: They are fundamentally different. One of the key objectives when I took over, having been involved in scenes of crime inquiries formerly, was to make sure that we got joined up. It is not a criticism. I had an opportunity, which was perhaps denied others, in the new dispensation to create a crime operations group, which Drew commands, which now deals not only with all intelligence, be it national security or crimeand the cross-overs are apparent to everyone in this roomso you have one place that can make the assessment and then decide what to do. Also, you have the experts in terms of the detectives to follow up on those investigations. It is a very different structure than it was then. Q29 MR MURPHY: There was a suggestion that any information that was passed from GCHQ to Special Branch could not be passed to a third party without the explicit permission of GCHQ and indeed GCHQ had also to authorise the form in which that information was released. During that period, could that have affected the investigation? MR HARRIS: That is correct. The information in effect is shared by computer monitor. Some of it would have been printed off, but only for a short time, and then would have been returned to GCHQ. In effect, the RUC did not actually own that information. It was lent to them and to use it in any form beyond a very tight group would have required permission and in a form of words to be agreed between either RUC headquarters in terms of Special Branch, or Special Branch in South Region with GCHQ. That would have required some negotiation. Q30 MR MURPHY: Would that have been one of the reasons Sir Peter said that it had been done in such a cautious way? MR HARRIS: No such requests were made from RUC Special Branch to GCHQ so it is impossible to put a time line on it. In my view the caution expressed is around the tightness with which the telephone number details were held. Q31 MR MURPHY: That is no longer the case; that system has now changed? MR HARRIS: The system we have in place now is that where you have intelligencebecause I have sight of all intelligence but also I am responsible for crime investigationsI am in effect the gatekeeper. We would appoint a senior detective, a CID officer, to review the raw intelligence, and then recommend what should be given to the senior investigating officer, and agree upon a form of words. It is detectives who are looking at the raw product and deciding what is useful for the investigator and in what form it should come across as. Then we were a larger organisation in some ways, and CID and Special Branch were separated; now all serious crime investigation and intelligence sits under my control under one head, and it makes it easier to manage that relationship and the flow of information. As seen in recent investigations, the pressure now is around managing that exchange and ensuring that that exchange of information is expeditious and as full as possible, and that requires a two-way conversation. The lessonsand bitter lessons they arehave been learnt from this experience, yes. Q32 CHAIRMAN: Mr Harris, may I ask you two brief things. You have seen Sir Peter's full report, presumably? MR HARRIS: Yes, I have. Q33 CHAIRMAN: I do not know whether you can answer this question, but you did say that on 20 August and subsequent briefings, certain names were mentioned. I think you said there were eight. MR HARRIS: That is correct, yes. Q34 CHAIRMAN: Do those eight names include the four named recently in the civil action? MR HARRIS: Yes. I would say of that briefing, and particularly in regard to one of the eight, that that briefing has stood the test of time. The subsequent investigation and the very thorough investigation by Detective Chief Superintendent Norman Baxter threw up no other particular suspects in this, and so the care and skill which went into that briefing has stood the test of time. It has been described as "cautious" but it has stood the test of time, and we would not contradict it now. CHAIRMAN: That is extremely helpful. Q35 KATE HOEY: Sir Hugh, have you had a chance to read the evidence given to us by Mr McCue when he came to see us? SIR HUGH ORDE: He was the lawyer? KATE HOEY: Yes. SIR HUGH ORDE: Yes, I have. Q36 KATE HOEY: I wondered if you wanted to comment. Do you feel overall on reflection you would have done anything differently in the way you and the whole force handled the Omagh families over the last number of years? There were some mild criticisms of the fact that they have not had letters answered and were treated in an arbitrary way by some of your colleagues and yourself. SIR HUGH ORDE: Yes, I did read that, and it caused me some concern, especially around the letters. That surprised me, frankly, and I have asked some questions. It is highly unusual, certainly at that level, for us not to acknowledge letters. Indeed, I had a human rights lawyer fully engaged in this as well as many senior detectives trying to deliver what we could to the inquiry, and it was difficult because we were dealing with a live criminal investigation and trying to service, as we could, a private civil matter, and there is some conflict there. We were criticised by the lawyer, I note, in the evidence he gave to the Committee. In relation to the families, it is just so difficult to even try and put yourself in the position of those families. I have met them on a number of occasions, up to and including with the Prime Minister, and I have done my best to provide the information from the moment I took over; so I am disappointed if they feel hard done by, by the seriousness with which we took this investigation, because I did my best. There is a limit to how much one can do. I think it would be right to say that at the Prime Minister's meeting the raw emotion is still there, and I utterly understand that. There does come a point where I do think honesty is absolutely essential, which is why after the Hoey trial, I was utterly honest and said: "In my judgment, unless we are lucky, frankly, or we get a really significant witness step up, probably involved to the point where legislation we can now put to good use, I do not think there is a likelihood of a judicial outcome." I am disappointed if they feel we did not treat them well. I know that huge effort was put in by my organisation from the word go, and we tried to deliver that, but if we failed I utterly understand they feel we have not done as much as we could. I feel sorry about that. I do not feel I could do any more than I have. Q37 KATE HOEY: No, I just wanted you to be able to put that on record. Do you think there will ever be any compensation given to them? I know it is not in your power, but on reflection? SIR HUGH ORDE: It is very hard to judge. I understand the lawyer made that particular point. Going after money is difficult, but I think it is something that will be pursued. Q38 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. It is helpful to have all that on record, Sir Hugh. Can I ask you three final questions as we are nearing the vote. First, would you like to make a comment on how the Policing Board encompassing Sinn Féin has improved things, because you did argue fairly strongly for devolution of policing and justice, and I am assuming it is based on your experience there. Could you give us any update on that other appalling murder, in which, as you know, the Committee has taken a great interest, namely that of Paul Quinn? Finally, would you like to tell us what advice you would like to give to your successor? SIR HUGH ORDE: Thank you for thatespecially the last one! In terms of the Policing Board and Sinn Féin, whether I like the structure of the Policing Board or not is actually irrelevant. It was a structure declared by Patten, and it has stood the test of time. One of the greatest strengthsindeed, looking at last weekend, every member of the public hadwell, the larger partiesis represented by someone on the Policing Board. As David pointed out, it has not been an easy ride some of the time, and, frankly, party politics sometimes plays around at the expense of policing within that environment. But it is very public. The Board reminded me that I have been to 63 of the 65 meetings during my time. I take it that seriously. I try my level best to be there because it is that important. It is the most visible form of accountability we have got, and I think that is a really good thing. In terms of devolution of policing and justice, again it is not whether it is right or wrong, it needs to happen. I do think there is a huge strength in giving responsibility in that stark way to local government. Politics becomes slightly more complicated when people are making statements that might cost me £200,000-300,000. If it has to come to me to deal with public order because of a politically created situation, it is not going to a hospital, it is not going to a school; it is coming to me. It gives a really sharp focus on what we should be focusing on, which is community policing at the front end against this difficult threat, so I think that is fine. It is an important thing, and certainly the feedback from the community is that they are up for it, and I think that is a good thing. I will ask Drew to touch on the Paul Quinn matter. MR HARRIS: We continue to stand ready to assist Garda Síochána with this inquiry. The last executive action in terms of arrests was late last year. They conveyed prisoners to Antrim and assisted obviously with that. There have been no charges as yet. I think I should really get a further account from colleagues in Garda S-«ochána where they are with that, and I could supply that. CHAIRMAN: Would you do that and write to the Committee because we did go to Crossmaglen. We met the Quinns formally and informally on a number of occasions, and were greatly impressed by their courage and dignity and by the way in which their neighbours and friends had rallied round them. I think that the meeting at Crossmaglen was one of the most amazing any of us have attended. We would be grateful for the latest up-to-date information there. Q39 KATE HOEY: Sir Hugh, when do you visualise seeing people applying to the Northern Ireland Police Force and being accepted and interviewed and being treated in the same way in terms of whether they are the best person for the job the way it is in the rest of the United Kingdom? SIR HUGH ORDE: It is a simple matter of fact that in 2011 the special measures end. The tragedy at that point is, I will be full. I will not be losing 440 officers a year because Patten's special measures end around severance. I would guess we would be recruiting between 70 and 90 people maximum, so of course the opportunities are even fewer. In the last competition I had 10,000 people applying for 440 posts. That is where it ends. It will end in 2011. There is no intention, to my understanding, to extend it, so that is when it will be on a purely merit basis. Q40 CHAIRMAN: I cannot allow you to evade the last questionadvice for your successor! SIR HUGH ORDE: I will try! The first point I would make is that there are some outstanding candidates. Some very experienced police officers have stepped up and said they want the job, which is great. It is great for my organisation. My only advice would be to manage risk. We are in a risk business. If you look at where Northern Ireland has moved on, it is not what me or my senior command team have done, it is the local sergeant, the local inspector, the local constable, who has made a decision to do something differently, recognising there is a risk to it and managing that risk in an appropriate way. As a consequence, policing has moved on, and communities have done likewise. That would be my only advicethat and "trust your people" because the police officers in my organisation and support staff are outstanding people and they have delivered a Northern Ireland which has 23% less crime than it had seven years ago. CHAIRMAN: Sir Hugh, you are very modest in your answer, but we would all sayand I would certainly echo the comments of my two colleagues here from Northern Irelandthat you have provided outstanding leadership. That does not mean that the Committee has always agreed with everything that you have said, but wherever we have had to make mild criticism in reports, I hope that it has always been constructive and helpful. I think that you have been amazingly responsive when we have made suggestions, you and your officers, and we are enormously grateful to you. In this context, because we have not yet had devolution of policing and justice, this Committee can speak on behalf of the people of Northern Ireland to say that we thank you for what you have done. We wish your colleagues who remain every success in supporting the new Chief Constable, whoever he or she may be, and we wish you every success in your new appointment.

The Pain Relief Site is Here to Help > lateral ankle pain information > lateral ankle pain Knowledge Base lateral ankle pain Knowledge Base Ankle pain...sprain or stress fracture? Let me begin by saying I have no reccolection of ANY injury to the area. I have a pain in the distal end of my fibula on the lateral maleolus (outer ankle bump) when applying weight. I can rotate with no pain, I can poke and push it with no pain. No pain whatsoever unless there is weight on it. I get pain when standing (on feet ALL day with little or no sitting) and walking. Pain is horrible and sharp when climbing stairs to the point that I can hardly put weight on it. The pain has been on going for about 3 months progressively getting worse. Done the ice and Advil, no avail. I have an appointment with ortho on Monday because I can no longer take the pain. What did I do and what possibly could be wrong? Should I have him chop it off on Monday? would plantar fasc and achelies stuff limit the pain to areas like the bottom of the foot or back of the ankle? absolutely no pain anywhere but at that bump oh and I don't recall bungling the ankle when I was younger...the other ankle on the other hand I severely sprained and chipped bone. that one feels fantastic! had my orthopod apt today. he says it definitely points to bone pain not tendons and ligaments. xray showed dark spot in the head of my fibula so now I have an mri apt scheduled in 2 WEEKS!!! ugh talk about anxiety!!! What is wrong with my ankle? I have been having anterior/lateral ankle pain since october. xrays:negative, mri:negative. there is a loud cracking noise and you can see and feel the tendon snapping back and forth over the talus bone. it is sore to the touch and there is a sharp pain when the tendon snaps back and forth. i was in a walking boot for 3 1/2 months, cast for 1 month, back in walking boot now for 2 weeks. the doc i am seeing now is a different one, he wants to do another set of mri. he thinks there might be a tear in the retinaculum. anyone have this before, or any other ideas.. Have I stretched or torn the lateral ligament in my Ankle? Yesterday I landed awkwardly and rolled my ankle. I heard a crack and it went numb for a few minutes. Today I can weight bear but can't point my toes without pain. The joint feels loose and floppy and hurts whenever moved... Pain in my ankle, and I don't know what it is? My ankle really hurts, and its getting worse by the day. It's on the outer/lateral side of the ankle. What could it be? Unfortunately I lost my medical insurance a couple of months ago, and money is really tight :( Ankle pain. Medical experts please? My father has had pain just below his lateral malleolus for several years. Being a typical middle aged man he hasn't had it checked out, but now realises he needs to. The pain is worse if he has been sitting down for a while. He is now almost unable to platarflex and dorsiflex his foot at all. He also works in a job which requires him to jump down quite a lot. Would it be possible that he may have a stress fracture? Lateral foot pain from running!? I'm 17 years old and I run XC and track. What makes me different from other HS runners is that I want to go pro. Anyways, I ran 10 miles (easy) on Sunday and then I ran 6 miles with 2 strides on Monday but my legs felt heavy and tight. After about 2 miles into my 6 mile run, I started feeling this sharp pain on the left side of my left foot below the ankle bone. Unfortunately, the pain was getting worse and it started to hurt with every landing but I forced myself and ran 6 miles through the pain. When I went to school today, I could barely walk because of my left foot. I had to shift all of my weight onto my right foot and land with the ball of my left foot only. The pain is coming directly from the side of my foot right below the ankle joint, I don't feel any pain on top of my foot or on the bottom of my foot. My Achilles tendon also feels fine and all, but the area under my ankle bone on the outside has swollen up. What could it be? Pain in my ankle while walking/running? Every time I walk on my ankle, or while sitting down, just rotating my ankle up with the heel still down on the ground, me ankle starts hurting. It's my right one, and the pain is coming on the lateral side of it. It kind of feels like shin splints, because it went up a little further up my shin, but it's not. What could it be? It's not swollen or bruised, just hard to walk. It feels like that if I keep walking too long, I could fall over with stiffness or a really bad cramp. Help plz Should I have pain on my ankle bone after sprain that happened 3 weeks ago? I sprained my ankle about 3 weeks ago playing basketball. The next day I couldn't walk and had x-rays done which came back negative. I was told to use crutches for a few days and given a air splint to wear for about 4-5 days. Initially it seemed like it was getting better and swelling was almost gone; but after I re-sprained it walking down the stairs the swelling returned. Its been a few weeks since the re-sprain and the pain is getting worse by the day. Although it seems most of the pain associated with the sprain is gone the bone (lateral malleolus) is extremely tender to touch and very painful. Is this common with ankle sprains? (Although playing sports i have sprained many fingers and knuckles its my first time spraining an ankle). Is it common to miss a fracture on the first x-rays?? Pain in the lateral part of my foot (side) HELP? I had an injury to my ankle 5 years ago i had physical therapy for a couple months but since then on occasion i have this pain on the side of my foot it isnt that flat part that touches the ground its just a lil bit above that there is like a bone there that is the pain. like the past 3 days i mean terrible pain. pain to touch pain at night when i sleep numbness now . i push on it and it hurts but the hurt is good you know. i wrap it and it hurts too much. Also if i twist my foot the other way it gives some relief.???? so any ideas? does this have to do with the arch like can i buy something over the counter to put in my shoe to help or something ..this is crazy pain. I will be making an appointment tomorrow but any body have any thoughts or ideas until i can get into see my dr. thanks. low back problem with pain shooting down the leg ending in left ankle.sciatica nerve pain in my left leg.? hi i got lot of pain down my left leg and buttock. leg getting numb and after couple minutes of walk i have to stop walking because it's hurt like hell. i got mri and it said: FINDINGS: THE FINDING OF INITIAL NOTE IS ABNORMALITY AT L4-5 WHERE THERE IS A BROAD BASED CENTRAL DISC PROTRUSION WITH ABUTMENT AGAINST THE THECAL SAC AND SOME SLIGHT LEFT LATERAL PREDOMINANCE AND ABUTMENT AGAINST THE LEFT L5 NERVE ROOT CENTRALLY. ADDITIONALLY THERE IS SOME MILD INFRAFORAMINAL RECESS STENOSIS IDENTIFIED. AT L5-S1 THERE IS GRADE 1 ANTEROLISTHESIS OF L5 ON S1. DEGENERATIVE FACET AND DEGENERATIVE DISC DISEASE IS IDENTIFIED. THERE IS A CENTRAL ANNULAR TEAR BUT NO DEFINITE EVIDENCE FOR CENTRAL THECAL SAC OR CENTRAL NERVE ROOT IMPINGEMENT. THERE WAS HOWEVER FELT TO BE BILATERAL FORAMINAL ENCROACHMENT AND BILATERAL FORAMINAL NERVE ROOT IMPINGEMENT LEFT MUCH GREATER THAN RIGHT. THE REMAINING DISC SPACES AND VERTEBRAL BODIES WERE UNREMARKABLE. THE CONUS MEDULLARIS WAS WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS. IMPRESSION: 1. MODERATE TO LARGE CENTRAL AND LEFT PARACENTRAL DISC PROTRUSION AT L4-5 WITH SOME THECAL SAC AND LEFT NERVE ROOT IMPINGEMENT 2. GRADE 1 ANTEROLISTHESIS OF L5 ON S1 WITH MODERATE TO SEVERE LEFT FORAMINAL ENCROACHMENT AND LEFT NERVE ROOT IMPINGEMENT AND MILD TO MODERATE RIGHT FORAMINAL ENCROACHMENT. what does it mean in normal language? do i have to go to surgery??? how much it cost around in us??i visited chiropractor maybe around 70 times and it didn't help. thank you for answers I sprained (grade 2-3) my ankle in Feb and it still hurts all the time... why?? Sharp pain 8 wks after break & sprain? I broke my ankle and suffered a bad sprain 8 weeks ago. Was in a fiberglass cast for 3 weeks and walking boot for the last 5. Doctor has ordered an MRI because the color, swelling, healing aren't what he wants to see at this point. He is concerned about injury he can't see on xray and has mentioned possible surgery. For past 2 weeks, told me try to walk on it and I got down to one crutch. At last appointment (Friday), he said go back to minimal weight bearing until we see what is on the MRI. Today, everytime I attempt to go from a sitting position to a standing position, I have a VERY sharp pain on the inner side of ankle for 45-60 seconds (break was on outer sider of ankle - lateral malleous). What in the world could this be? This specific pain is a new one for me. Should I Be Mad? Im a Medic in the military and i work in a hospital. So my job is to screen the patients for the Dr. Take the vitals....do the soap note and what not. Iv been doing this for 2 yrs now so i know how to do my job. Well i never really got a chance till l this week to work with this certain Dr. whom we shall call Dr. S. Well i always get compliments on my work and how i do things. But according to Dr S i do everything wrong. Y? because of how i present the patients to him. ill go and breif him on a patient for example on ankle pain and i will tell him how long the person has been having the pain and how the patients ankle began hurting. Then when i try and Describe where the ankle pain is he wants me to say everything like i was a Dr. like "he has Lateral left ankle pain along the 5th metatarsal". and tell him if i did the "ottawa" rules check on him. how am i supposed to know wat the dang Ottowa rules are? Im A Medic!!! Not A DR!!!! And he said i was Lazy!!! So Do i have the right to Be mad at him? i am not lazy in the slightest bit and i no my job better than half the ppl who work here. yet all he sees is my lack to present patients to him as if i am a Dr. He is the one who went to medicle school. NOT ME!!! so y should i no how to say stuff exaztly the way he wants????? not badly offended??? i am bioling mad right now at him and am trying to keep my cool here at work right now. I am most definatle avoiding him the rest of my shift thats for sure!!! I hurt my ankle months ago and it still hurts!? I'm in mixed martial arts and injured my ankle on a badly timed kick. This was about three months ago. Nowadays, I still feel pain on the lateral side of my ankle and my achilles tendon whenever I run for more than 5 miles, or lift, or do circuit training. But after I give it a rest for one day, the pain subsides. It's very sharp pain usually a few hours after I work out. And I tried giving it a few weeks off. Can you help me figure this out? And if I do have weak ankles, what are some progressive tips to strengthen them? Is this an ankle sprain, or something else? A few days ago I fell on my ankle and thought I sprained it. It ached for the next two days (little swelling, no bruising), but now that has been replaced by a twinge/stab of pain in the lateral side of my foot below the outer anklebone when I walk. I looked up ankle sprains online, and the articles said that the lateral collateral ligament is most commonly injured, but it doesn't seem to be located where the pain is. Does this mean this isn't a sprain? Or can the pain be delocalized? What could be wrong with my ankle?! Excruciating sharp pain to my foot when I defecate. any help? Every time I defecate, as soon as feces exit through my anus I feel an excruciating sharp pain to the side of my right foot (anterior lateral to my ankle). The first time I visited my doctor he laughed me off. but it has continued for almost a year now and i really want to take care of this. It is conditioning me to avoid going to the bathroom too often, something that i do not want to get accustomed to. Any help is appreciated: is there a name for this? what type of doctor should i go see? what does this come from? etc... What are some good stretches for tight peroneus longus muscles? (related to running)? My peroneus longus on my right leg is extremely tight from running and snowboarding...I get muscle pain at the fibular head and around the lateral ankle (i.e. the common peroneal sheath at the lateral malleolus). I only know a stretch that uses a foam roller, but would appreciate any other ideas. thanks. torn lateral ligament? hey im 15 years old i sprained my left ankle about 1yr and a half ago unfortunately xrays, MRIs have just been recently done ive been told i have a torn a lateral ligament in my left ankle i dont have much pain at all occasional pain with swelling but nothing to much its said now that i need surgery! im not to sure about the whole of surgery and if its worth it any advice or opinions much appreciated thanks for ur help in advance :) Chronic Ankle problem, anybody know what it might be??. Is my ankle broken? yes, i was being stupid. sue me.? i was standing on the seat of my friends car, going 30. stupid, i know. i slipped, and landed on it funny and it was the worst pain ive ever felt. the ankle swelled around the Lateral Malleolus (the thing that points out) and hurts constantly. whether i put weight on it, move it, or just leave it alone, it kills. what is it? After fractured ankle, when is weight-bearing premature? I had a bi-lateral malleolar fracture that was surgically repaired with plates and screws four weeks ago. The hard cast is now off, and I am in a removable cast with crutches. The thing is, I have no pain. I'm not complaining. The ankle is still somewhat swollen, but the joints seem to have a full range of motion with no pain--that foot feels little different from the other foot, which is uninjured. I can stand on both feet with no pain, either while standing or afterwards. My surgeon suggests that I could begin weight-bearing in a week or two, "as your pain level permits", but my pain level right now, at four weeks, is essentially non-existant. Would I do damage by weight-bearing now, with the cast on? Any help for my lateral knee injury? On november 30th i had an ankle(right) operation(long story). As a result of this operation(i think almost straight after op) i began to experience pain in my right knee. This started as just genreral pain on the lateral side of my knee then i noticed some cracking,locking and slight swelling. Although i fear ive probably got a torn meniscus, im wondering just how i got it, because there certainly wasnt any huge twist whilst playing football or anything...just maybe my knee was slightly overloaded due to ankle. Anyway any help would be grateful,thanks. Im 19,slim build 1.) Why the removal of CSF from the subarachnoid space of the spinal cord a reliable means? of diagnosis of meningitis? 2.) why are the dorsal root ganglia larger in diameter than the dorsal roots? 3.) what is the basis of the claim that, "eating carrots are good for the eyes? 4.) If a person exhibits enlargement of the lateral and third ventricle, but no enlargement of the fourth ventricle. what would you conclude? 5.) Two people are admitted to the hospital. According to theor charts, both have herniated disks that are pacing prssure on the roots of he scatic nerve. One patient has pain in the butoock and the posterior aspects of the thigh. The other person experiences pain the posterior and lateral aspects of the leg and the lateral part of the ankle and foot. Explain how the same condition, a herniated disk, could produce such different. Ankle injury from a fall in Dec.05? Hi, I fell on the ice coming in to work in Dec. Found out after 4 weeks that I had a fx of the lateral melleleous. Be going thru awful times now. Have continued pain, not only in my ankle but also my foot and toes. Some burning sensations also. I also have edema present from time to time. i have been on workmans Comp.... and now they want me to see an "independent Dr" I have been off work for 6mos. My job requires me to be on my feet for 8hrs. my concern is what if this independent Dr. will state that he feels that I can go back to work. I hvave never delt with these issues before and would appreciate any suggestions you might have to offer. This has all caused me to have loss of sleep and an increase in deppression. Does anybody reconize thes symptoms?? i have been checked for RSD and it has been ruled out i have an appt. to see a nerurologist in Aug. Thanks for listening.......... Lisa Questions - Ankle Arthroscopy? I'm 19 and suffered an avulsion fracture in early 2007 that tore part of my medial malleolus (distal tibia) off and did significant ligament damage after an extreme eversion accident; this is on top of two previous grade 3 sprains on the lateral aspect of the same ankle in the 3 years preceding. I saw an orthopedic surgeon at the time and the course of management we went with was 6 weeks in a walking weight-bearing cast ('moon boot') with physiotherapy; I was warned it could be 6 months to a year before all the mobility and stability in that ankle was restored. Since then I have been patient with the ankle despite the fact it is often stiff and sometimes quite sore, and looks permanently swollen. However, about 4 weeks ago I started a new exercise program (about 3 hours of training a day, comprising a mixture of walking/jogging, step & aerobic classes, spin classes and cardio circuit work). The ankle held up well for about 2 weeks and then became gradually more and more painful; despite RICEing after every workout session the pain did not subside, but steadily got worse. I had a CT scan of the ankle done last week at my GP's office which showed non-union of the fracture, and several loose bone fragments in the joint; the scan also showed significant joint effusion. I am scheduled to see my orthopedic surgeon next week to discuss arthroscopy to remove the bone fragments and examine the ligaments, which my GP said was probably the only option to fix the ankle. I have some questions about the arthroscopy - can anyone whose had one (not just on the ankle but anywhere) tell me what their experience was like in terms of the actual procedure, recovery time, success of the operation, current state of the joint after surgery, etc? Cheers!! I've had a high ankle sprain for the last decade and till now it has gone untreated? Recently while playing ball, I sprained it all over again. I cannot jump and land on the left foot becuz the part that separates the top part of the ankle and the tibia and fibula is in pain. I can flex my foot downwards but when I flex my foot inwards to stretch my Achilles tendon, the pain in the higher part of the ankle is unbearable. Also I am well aware that i have torn lateral ligament and possibly a torn anterior talo-fibular ligament. All this pain is really unbearable, the doctor told me to put ice and rest it. This morning I slipped on some water and the pain was reawaken, what's up with this?..How long do you think I need to stay off it, if its this serious? Yeah silly I did what you said...I get the feeling that it could be a little more serious than a sprain. Lateral knee discomfort just below the patella: what is it? I have a tender, "weird" feeling in my outer knee. It's kind of on the upper, outer shin... an area lateral to and slightly below my kneecap. I have no swelling, cracking, or severe pain-- it just aches. The only injury I've had has been to the OPPOSITE ankle, so I think something got messed up when I was limping around. I'm also a female with hips on the wider side (if that matters.) What is it? And how should I treat it?!!!! Went to ER - Soft tissue swelling around lateral malleolus w/avulsion injury of distal rt fibula. Explain? My ankle is still swollen and I am in severe pain. Exrays results were:There is a significant soft tissue swelling around the lateral malleolus with questionable tiny avulsion injury arising from the posterior aspect of the distal right fibula.No other fracture identified.Ankle mortise is well maintained.Clinical correlation would be advised. Can someone please help explain. I am at home with it splinted up but in severe pain and severe swelling. HELP Lateral Release on knee? I had a lateral release on my right knee a week ago today. I was advised by my doctor to use crutches for two weeks, but from reading up on it have seen that people only use them for a few days.. I start physio tomorrow, but still have a lot of pain and swelling, and cant bend my knee very far at all. I also had some of my hoffas fat pad shaved during the surgery aswell. I was just wondering how long youd expect the recovery for this type of surgery to take? I have another concern with my foot and ankle as well, my foot seems to be dropping inwards and putting strain on the outside of my ankle, this is quite painful.. im going to ask at physio tomorrow but wondered if anyone else had experienced similar problems? What did I do to my ankle? OK, I have a chronic ankle problem. I was a gymnast and a dancer for 15 years - now I only dance (I still practice gymnastics, but purely as a recreational sport). From the years of training and rehearsing, my ankles both took quite a beating, and I'd sprained both on numerous occasions - particularly the right one. But a year and a half ago, I came down hard on the side of my right foot in dress rehearsal for a really big dance show. It was so painful and so swollen after only a few minutes that my dance instructor insisted I go to the hospital, because she was sure I'd broken it. The doctor told me that, luckily, I had not broken it: I'd ripped straight through two of my ligaments and stretched the third - which meant i had a severe lateral sprain. I was given crutches to use for two weeks, an air-cast for four, a brace for whenever I could finally get back to training and dance, and instructions for PT. they told me not to return to full dance for a month, and no full gymnastics training for 6 weeks - or until I got the all-clear to go ahead with training either. The show was opening in two days for five performances - and I was in 11 numbers, 6 of which I'd choreographed. There was no way I was going to miss it. I got a shot of cortisone from my trainer and bucked it up: stayed on crutches during the day and performed at night. It was excruciating and hellish, but I survived. And, BEFORE YOU LECTURE, please realize that I'm not a complete idiot. I knew when I chose to dance on a severely injured ankle it wasn't a good idea - I realized what I'd be risking. But after it was over I did exactly what I was supposed to do: I stayed off it for several weeks, went through all of my PT, stretches, etc., and didn't return to dance or gymnastics until my trainer thought I was ready. I was warned from the start that the ligaments might take surgery to heal entirely correct, but with the risk of further limitation of motion and the promise I'd never be able to dance on pointe again, the surgery never really appealed to me. Now, however, I'm beginning to fear it may be the only option that works. Now comes my problem - since then, my ankle has been very unsteady, swells after every workout, and re-injures very easily. I ice it after every class, rehearsal, workout, etc., and I always wear a brace - but it still swells. Today, the problem is even worse than normal. I took a jazz class last night at a new studio. The class was amazing and I loved it, but I noticed my ankle was acting up even more than usual. By the time the class was over, I could barely put weight on it. My friend and I headed back to campus, and we had to stop and hail a cab because I couldn't manage the walk. When we got back, she had to help me pull the boot off my foot, because my ankle was so swollen inside the shoe that it'd gotten stuck, and I couldn't turn the foot to pull it off myself without horrible pain. When the shoe came off, I saw that my entire foot was swollen and purple - like I'd sprained the ankle again - but I can't remember any specific moment where I could have done so. I took two Advil, iced, and went to bed. Today, the ankle is no better. I still can't put weight on it, and it's still ridiculously swollen and bruised. I put on an air-cast I have just to immobilize it, which seemed to help a little, but I have all-day tech rehearsal tomorrow and I really can't miss it. I don't understand what I possibly could have done to it! Is it just a really bad instance of my chronic problem? Or could I have really re-injured it badly? Help! Broke My Ankle (Fibula)...? For the first time, I broke a bone...my fibula a few days ago. I went to the ER the day after it happened. They took a few x-rays of my ankle and then some stress tests to see if I needed surgery or not. They then told me that I had broken my lateral malleolus which I guess is the fibula. The first day, they put me in a splint and sent me home with crutches and percocet. I went back the following day as instructed, and they then gave me a cam walker boot and told me to keep it on until it was healed. I was also instructed to try and walk on it as my pain level permitted. Everything I looked at online says to stay off of the ankle. But my doc I'm sure is right... right? This is day 3 and I am able to walk (or rather limp) in my cam walker without crutches. Has anyone else had this type of healing instructions? I am also no longer taking the percocet either. Any info is appreciated. Opinions on an ankle injury? This past Tuesday, my boyfriend rolled his ankle pretty badly when he hit an icy spot while going down some stairs. I'm posting this question to get a few opinions on this situation - I really want him to go and get it checked out just to make sure everything is okay, but he's reluctant because we're both in college and doctors aren't cheap. His entire left foot and ankle are now swollen to twice their normal size as expected, but there is nasty red/blue/black/purple bruising covering the lateral malleolus and on both sides of his heel going about halfway to his toes, and his pinkie toe is bright red and swollen. His other toes are completely fine. There's a few things that kind of worry me:this only happened a couple days ago, but the pain is already almost gone despite the nasty appearance. He also gets little tingly feelings through his foot and the one toe every so often, especially when touched. The fact that only one toe is affected is also kind of weird to me. Opinions? and sprained both several times at varying degrees of severity, and I've never seen anything quite like this. on one occasion and sprained both several times at varying degrees of severity, and I've never seen anything quite like what's being missed here? MRI on a very rare pain free day showed moderate tendinopathy of gluteus minimus and medius as well as trochanteric bursitis. (would be interesting to see what increased signals show on a usual pain ridden day) Symptoms of the tendinopathy were mild as far as lateral pain was concerned. INtense pain in the area of the muscles themselves though (glute minimus and medius). After corticosteroid injection into the bursa THEN I had the symptoms of bursitis. Also have had lower back pain though MRI showed nothing much there and certainly no nerve involvement. Anterior thigh pain has been passed of as radiculopathy but I am not convinced as it is not reproduced with ROM in the back and any exercise that requires the strength of my anterior thigh causes pain there. Have been through the sciatica - now resolved. Symptoms have been going on for 9 months now and I was fit, healthy and strong before hand, visiting gym and working the glutes amongst other muscles 2-3 days a week on the various machines as well as the usual cardio on most days of the week. Injury was caused by deep muscle massage on right side of mid/lower back only, followed by a manipulation of the right hip. Manip was done with me prone, right leg crossed over left at the ankle and then leg tugged on three times. Back pain was during and after the massage (deep muscle massage was painful!!), Woke up the next morning unable to weightbear on right leg at all and from mid right back right down to right knee was just on fire with intense overwhelming pain. Anyway I am certain something is not being diagnosed as it just doesnt make sense for me to be in this much pain so far along. NSAIDS for 9 months and ice, steroid injection, muscle relaxants and analgesia and I still cannot walk around the block without the pain in my leg becoming unbearable. The anterior thigh pain is where I am concerned the diagnosis is lacking. Am definitely improved on where I was but considering my strength beforehand I should be pain free by now! Inguinal ligament? psoas? Sartorius? Rectus femoris? I did at one stage ask my PT to treat my sartorius and the leg pain completely disappeared as did a lot of my back pain, for 9 days until another PT poked and prodded my SI joints and vertebrae. Think she hit every tender spot I had and caused a lot of pain - the sciatica began about an hour after and the leg pain returned though not exactly the same as before - the inguinal component had not returned. sorry for the long post, just frustrated with Drs, PT, specialists all just grabbing at easy stereotypical diagnosis when I FEEL there is something just not adding up. (am an RN and have good knowledge of different types of pain etc plus thanks to google have increased my knowledge of anatomy of all these areas tenfold in the last ten months!) Would appreciate input from anybody who can add a piece to the puzzle. Thanks in advance, Jo i twisted my ankle back in march!? i twisted it when i tripped in high heels. the next day it was bruised and swollen but this went away within a couple of days so i thought nothing of it. now it still hurts! but only when i twist it in an awkward position or sit on my feet. the pain is slightly anterior and medial to the lateral malleolus, my aunty suggested it may be a slight avulsion # but i suspected that this would hurt more??? any ideas!? What is a 'normal' reaction to physio? How can I increase mobility? About six weeks ago, I mis-stepped and thoroughly messed up my left ankle. The doctor and physiotherapists have diagnosed a minor sprain in my lateral ankle ligaments, a subtalar subluxation (which was finally reduced 3.5 weeks after the initial injury), and subluxing peroneal tendons (which I've been taping for support). X-rays were clear for fractures and I'm on a waiting list for an MRI. I've been seeing a physiotherapist and have also been on prescription anti-inflammatories for a month now. Although some days are better than others, I'm still limping and having relatively significant amounts of pain/discomfort with even relatively minor use. I've been taking OTC Tylenol with codeine with some regularity to deal with that, especially for the 48-96 hours immediately following a physio session. I know some pain is normal following physio, but is it normal for it to hurt for this long after a session? Is there anything I can do, other than taking painkillers and icing, to prevent this from happening or to allow me more mobility? (On a good day, more than about an hour and a half on my feet puts me in the same situation -- sitting on my couch with ice and painkillers.) I think I have peroneal tendon subluxation, but it's painless, does that mean it's still bad....? For the past several years now, my right ankle has been cracking/snapping/popping many times a day, usually at least 10. It's on the outside/lateral side of the ankle, around the area of the bottom of the fibula. Usually it will only crack when I rotate my ankle inwards, or sometimes when I move my foot up towards me. Sometimes it will crack when I just stand up on it. If I don't crack it on purpose, which I do because it kind of feels uncomfortable if I don't, it will probably crack just when I stand up. I can't constantly crack it, but I'd say every 30 mins it is able to be cracked. Lol. It rarely hurts, and when it does it's a very mild pain. My ankle is not swollen or hurts otherwise. I don't know why this started, I did not have a bad sprain or broke my ankle or anything. I do run a lot and started that about 3 years ago which, now that I think of it, is around the same time that my ankle started this. I asked my doctor, but of course when I asked her about it my ankle wouldn't crack so she could hear it (it's usually really loud). She said I just have "snappy tendons". But why did it start out of nowhere? And am I going to have it for the rest of my life? It is VERY annoying and sometimes embarrassing because people have to keep hearing me crack my stupid ankle! Anyways, I was just wondering what this is? I read about peroneal tendon subluxation and that seems like that's what it is but it doesn't hurt, isn't swollen, and I didn't have a recent sprain before it started. So, any ideas? Please I just want to know what's going on!!! Could I have a stress fracture in my foot?! Does this sound like a stress fracture? tap on the area just below where my ankle bone sticks out. I also seem to be unable to evert my foot without experiencing significant pain. when I am resting or doing light physical activity, but it sometimes can be very painful to walk. What could be wrong with my ankle? Thanks! My sister accidently dropped her heavy dresser on my foot a week ago. swollen,and can't really walk on it? I've been having some problems with my feet anyway so I didn't really pay much attention to it.But now I have this achy throbbing feeling in the foot that it dropped on and its swollen.Also whenever I touch it, it hurts extremely bad.I can't even wear shoes or sneakers because of it. I've been using the RICE method.The pain is mostly midfoot to the anterior,medial,and lateral parts of my ankle its also like this big bump on it How likely is it that my ankle is broken? I was skating yesterday and landed a shovit with my footing halfway off the board. My heels stayed on the board so it kept going and twisted my ankle to the side rather violently. I'm pretty sure I felt a pop. Also, judging from my position on theboard my foot was probably also tilted up. Initially the swelling was really bad, it looked like I had an egg under my skin on the lateral part of my ankle above the bump that usually sticks out (forgive me for not knowing the proper medical term) but with a little ice and some compression (I wrapped it in an ace bandage and put it in a splint because I had to walk a little) the swelling went down to a reasonable level. So here's the thing. I can rotate it and put weight on it without any MAJOR pain. Also, when feeling it and applying pressure to the joint, the areas that hurt the most are in-between the bones (basically I have a ring of pain around my ankle, in between thefoot and shin) and the two divots on either side of my Achilles tendon. Speaking from a logical perspective, it'd appear that I simply have a second degree (or whatever the classifications are called) sprain. However I'm no medical expert and wanted to get some second opinions before I shell out the copay to see my doctor. Also, if it doesn't sound too severe maybe I'll get a little peace of mind at least. It's now the morning after I sprained it( probably a good 20 hours after the fact) and it's still kinda swollen with light bruising. It hurts a little more now to put weight on it but I can still even balance on my injured foot without severe discomfort. Any feedback wins my undying affection :) Rolled ankle, did i partially tear ligament? hey I have a similar situation to a question asked about a year ago - i rolled my ankle a month ago which resulted in bruising and mass swelling around ankle and foot. now the nub on the outside of my ankle is still somewhat swollen, and it hurts to run on it. did i tear something? it was answered - That "nub" on the outside of your ankle is the lateral malleolus of your tibia. It is possible that you had a minute fracture at the tip of the malleoli, which would cause severe pain, swelling, and bruising. These small fractures do not get treated though. They are left to heal on their own. If you are walking on it now then chances are that a fracture greater than this did not occur. Tearing of a ligament would require much more than simply rolling your ankle. You may of strained the tendons and ligaments. Either of these would result in the kind of pain you have having now. Torn ligaments would be too painful to walk on. If you are still concerned about it you could go to your doctor but he likely will not do anything for it. now I'm just wondering how I should treat/ how long to stay off of it before resuming activity. I actually did this about a month or two ago but only stayed off it for a week because I thought it was just a minor sprain, continued playing basketball on it which was possible but left my ankle very sore. After last night I realized it was definitly not getting better but slowly getting worse so I'be decided to hang it up for ahwile, the reason I ask is because I have no insurance so I'd like to be sure before shelling out the bucks for an x-ray. terrible ankle sprain HELP? RECOMMENDATIONS PLEASEEE? Back in January I sprained my ankle pretty bad during a basketball game, I play for a D3 college. The trainers looked me over and said I have a first degree ankle sprain. it was an inversion sprain, i just landed on someone else's foot. I am a athletic training major so i kind of know what I'm talking about here. They gave me exercises to do and told me to rest. after two months of rest and physical therapy the immediate pain was gone but it was in no way healed. so over spring break i went to my sports medicine doctor at home, he sent me to get an MRI. turns out i completely tore all the ligaments on the lateral side of my ankle, Posterior talofibular, calcaneofibular, and anterior talofibular as well as bruised my talus and partially tore and bruised my deltoid. pretty far from a first degree sprain if you ask me. So the trainers told me the talus was still bruised and that was the pain i was feeling and that i would need to take another month or two off, so i did. I waited until i got out of school to go see a ankle specialist. the ankle specialist gave me a stress x ray and it showed that my ankle was still incredibly stable, no instability at all. So he gave me a cortisone shot right in the joint. it worked for a week or two. then i went back and got another cortisone shot. it also worked for about a week or two. apparently the next step is to get an arthroscopy, i think its how its spelled. he described it as vacuuming out the junk that stuck in my ankle joint. Is this the best action? I have had another sports medicine doctor recommend a total ankle reconstruction. This goes way past what we learn in athletic training at school. I might add that i have no pain when just walking around every day. the ankle pops a lot and i can hear stuff grinding around inside of it when i move it but it only hurts when i play basketball which i just started doing after i got the first cortisone shot. Please let me know what the best course of action would be here. It would also be very helpful if you could include your credentials when answering the questions so i can trust you. Thanks for your time. Sharp shooting pain on my right ankle come and go!!? Recently I have had these sharp shooting pains on the lateral part of my right ankle with every step, it gets so bad that sometimes I cant bare any weight on that foot at all. There is no pain on palpation at all and have full range of motion. The funny thing is that usually it goes away the next day. An xray of my foot revealed no damage but did reveal an abnormal plantar fascia which would be a result of a planter fascia rupture I had in 2008. Has anyone ever had something like this happen before or have any idea what it might be? Did I sprain my ankle and not know it? My ski boot fitter said my lateral ankle flexion on one foot is less than the other. I can't point my left foot. I can barely flex it up when flat on the ground. Did I sprain it a while ago and ignore the pain? I broke my ankle I am confused why I am in a Stir-up now.? July 22, 2010 I broke my ankle. Basically he wrote non displaced oblique fracture of the lateral malleolus just distal to the plafond. I guess the short end of the fibula. It did hurt really bad. I went to the E.R. that day and they put me in a splint then it took 12 days to get into the Orthopedic. There they put a short leg cast on me. Last Friday (basically 5 weeks since my accident) they took me out of the cast because of a bulge. The ankle wrapping had fallen and cause an indention in the side of my leg. (Ouch). He said my x-ray showed healing and wanted to put me in a stir-up. My O.S never really explains anything to me and he ddidn'ttell me how much pain I would be in since I have been allowed to weight bear with crutches. I am just not sure if I am using my crutches correctly. Now that I have put some weight on my foot tthere'sno way I could go back to no weight bearing. I have classes twice a week from 9:30 am till 9p at night. (its my last semester of college). It hurts so bad when I get home and my foot is so swollen. I do periodically prompt my leg up during my breaks at school. I have read that the pain is from muscles that haven't been used. Also I read soaking in epson salt is good too. Anything thing else would help. I am suppose to be in this stir-up for 2 1/2 more weeks. Then I have another check up and I am not sure what will happen there. He never explains a plan to me. I've heard some ppl having to go to PT. Also I asked when I could start working out cause I was on a wweight lossprogram before this happen. He did say I could use the eexercisebike but I am scared. Sorry I do not know why there are so many typos in this paragraph. I did spell check. Also the stir-up that I am wearing kinda reminds me of a wrap. Thats what the doctor called it. I wear it during the day over a tube sock. It does have velcro so I can loosen it. Ankle Pain: What to do? The ball part of my left ankle (lateral malleolus) hurts when it pressed on or any type of hard surface is on it (more detailed: if ankle is resting on my leg it is portion facing my toes and a little facing upwards), such as when I cross my leg with my foot resting on my ankle while using a laptop lap desk. It has been doing this for a few months now. I've had an x-ray which Doc says he doesn't see anything wrong so thought it was buritis or tendonitis and have taken anti-inflammatory medication and have had a cortisone shot as well. They have helped somewhat, but am still getting the same pain every now and then. Anyone know what this might be and what I can do to finally get this to stop? Any what is the pain severity of a fractured ankle? I rolled my ankle last night while jogging. I walked home (1/10 mile) on it, my ankle swelled to four times its natural size, and has since reduced to three times its natural size. I can't put pressure on it without being in sever pain. It has been rested, iced, compressed, and elevated since. I can't walk on it, there is no bruising either. The swelling is mostly on the outside of the ankle, with a little on top, and a small bump on the inside. I don't have health insurance to see a doctor, and am afraid that it is a fracture, and not a sprain. My question is, what do you think? Is it fractured? What grade of sprain is it? What is the severity of pain I should experience if it was a fracture? Remember these details: I have treated it since the injury with, rest, ice, compress, elevate There is no bruising Swelling to more than double in natural size (although swelling has reduced over night) Pain upon pressure from standing small range of motion (I experience pain when I move) rolled the ankle, so the sole of the foot faces inward (lateral sprain) swelling all the way around the ankle, although most swelling is on the outside of ankle have been on crutches since injury feel small amount of pain on the rear of ankle ?. I have had ankle pain for 3 and 1/2 months now and I have no MOI.?? I have had ankle pain for 3 and 1/2 months now and I have no mechanism of injury?? I rolled my ankle 3 months ago!? I rolled it coming down off a ladder. As I stepped down with my left foot first I stepped onto a small piece of busted up concrete. When that happened all my weight(245lbs) came crashing down on the side of my ankle. It was at work. Being the macho guy that I am....I jumped back up and said I was alright! Everybody at work seen it happen and said I should get it looked at. I advised them that I had done this numerous times in the past. So I proceeded to finish the day out as I only had a few hours to go. I instantly felt the swelling to start so I tightened my boot laces to help with support until I could get a brace or something. I could walk on it with a limp but I had decent range of motion! This was on a Friday afternoon. I figured I had the whole weekend to rest. I had a 2 day fishing tournament that weekend that I didnt want to miss. I pretty much sat in the boat all day both days. Saturday afternoon was the only real chance I had to look at it and boy was it swelled up and severly bruised! Bruising with redness above the bruising! It was bruised above and below lateral ankle bone and bruised on the inside along the bottom! Swelled like a grapefruit! So anyway......at night I kept it elevated with Ice and wore a brace. took plenty of ibuprofen. On that following monday the swelling started to go down and the bruising was looking better. I returned to work but wore a brace at all times and was extra careful where i stepped! By that wed or thur the swelling was nearly gone and the bruising was nearly faded away! I had a Christmas Party Dec 10th and we played basketball and I probably shouldnt of! I did ok playing but woke up the next day extremely stiff and sore on that ankle! Ive had a lot of popping in the ankle with sharp pain. Sometimes it feels like it is gonna pop so I move it to try and pop it and it starts to hurt too bad and wont pop. S then I'll relax it and move it back that way again(right after relaxing it) and it dont hurt or doesent even pop! Weird! Very stiff and sore everyday! I wonder if I tore a ligament in there???? Or even possible fractured it a bit? Would I be able to walk on it right after the injury like I did? What can be done now?. A swelling in the lateral aspect of ankle? I have a small swelling in the lateral aspect of left ankle, which is moving easily with skin over the bony projection. Occasionally it pains. Duration is one year. It is somewhat spherical. One of my friend told me that it may be a bursa. Any other chance? particularly of any cancerous growth??! Ankle pain could this be my ligaments? hi i have got pain in my right ankle i cant walk with my foot in the proper position im walking on the side of it the doc said he thinks ive injured my lateral ligament but didnt tell me what to do abt it has anyone got any advice for me plz im in agony even when resting it thanx pain in front ankle(between toes and knee) from brisk walking(exercise)? I googled it , its called Torn Lateral ankle ligaments, thats where im feeling the pain! whenever i walk or jump or put force to it! I have been in pain for about 2 weeks but completely ignoring it because I am on a diet and I want to lose weight, thinking that the pain will go away.. but it still hurts , so i decided to rest it for a while. How long do you think I should rest it? any other suggestions? WHen can i be able to exercise again? I brisk walk 3 hours a day and go to the gym curves(30 mins workout)everyday! I weigh 53 kgs, 166 cm female 19 years old, so the pain is not from me being overweight cause im not. btw, this is the link I have had major surgery to repair ligaments in my r ankle, when will I be able to horse ride again? Torn all ligaments lateral side of ankle In a cast for six weeks , three more to go. Still have major pain. I heard a "pop" in my ankle and am concerned it is my achilles.? I was playing softball, running to 2nd and went to slide. When I did, I'm not entirely sure what my ankle did, but I heard a pop and am pretty sure the 2nd basement heard it as well. I didn't have significant pain, and was able to get up and stand on it right away. When I went to run again, that's when it hurt in the posterior aspect of my ankle. I can do bilateral heel raises, not single heel raises. I iced it once I got home, wrapped it up and started having pain on the lateral surface of my ankle. When I palpate along the achilles, I have no pain and everything seems to be attached. I did the calf squeeze test and my foot plantarflexed as it should. Moving into dorsiflexion when sitting is difficult and stiff posteriorly and causes pain laterally. When I stand on it, it seems stiff and painful in the posterior region of my ankle/lower calf. When I walk, I have a hard time pushing off. Could this just be a bad sprain? Or is is sounding like a partial achilles tendon rupture? In response to Jad, I'm asking because I want some opinions before I go and spend money at the physician's office." and am now below 13".? I had a level 2 ankle sprain. its been 6 weeks and i still dont have my lateral movement back!!? I jumped up for a ball, landed inverted on my foot. I had a level 2 ankle sprain. I couldn't walk for 3 days. Now it has been 6 weeks. I can run, but I cant do football because I cannot laterally move without severe pain in the ankle. What can I do in order to get my lateral movement back Ankle/heel pain after running? Field hockey at school just started again and my ankle/heel has been giving me problems. Last week around Thurday/Wednesday, I was playing field hockey and my ankle/heel area started hurting all of a sudden. The pain is on the lateral side of my foot between the two bones where there is a space. Look at this; & it’s where the giant gap is (right of the Achilles tendon). It hurts a lot when I press against the heel bone (pressing down/sideways) and in the general area. Running has always given me problems with me knees, ankles, shins, etc. it’s been half a week and it hasn’t felt any better, worse actually but I have NOT rested it well. I still run around a little at field hockey or else I could lose my potential starting position and I also swim (swimming doesn’t hurt it). I have been wearing a brace but after field hockey I usually need to limp cause of the pain. It is also not swollen, at least not a noticeable amount. My main question is, what do you think it could be? I've looked a lot on Google & I can't seem to find anything that matches exactly. Thank you! Frodo; 1. yes, i have a low arch. almost no arch. 2. i did a yesterday morning but not today. i think it's getting better but it may just be the medicine i'm taking. 3. i usually wear sperry's or ugg moccasins. 4. no, there's no swelling at all. thank you! Pain on the lateral shin? I'm 15 play basketball and run everyday I can. I have pretty bad shin pain that is centered in the side and middle upper part of the outside of my lower leg and kind of radiates and throbs into the low side of my knee and near the back of My ankle. It hurts especially after I run. I got a cortisone shot in my ankle two weeks ago, but now I'm in pretty bad pain... help!! 10 points!!!? First off, I'm 21 and I have a very mild case of spastic diplegic cerebral palsy (for those of you that don't know, it basically just means that the muscles below my hip are tight). So anyway, I've had a total of four surgeries in relation to the CP (plus an open heart surgery and eye surgery), and they were done when I was 5, 12, 16, and 19 years old. I'm 21 now, and this last surgery really didn't go well at all. I'll spare you the details, but I just started going to new doctors at Children's Hospital Boston (where you're considered a "child" until the age of 35) -- they're fantastic doctors, MUCH better than the adult surgeon I saw prior to them. (Side note: I was seeing a pediatric orthopedic surgeon until I was 18, but he could not see me after that because he only specializes in pediatrics. He was and is an amazing doctor... I'm very sad I can't see him any more). So, in case you didn't follow: I had a pediatric surgeon for the surgeries at ages 5, 12, and 16; I went to an adult surgeon for the surgery at 19; and now I am in the care of two wonderful doctors in Boston. So, anyway, these new doctors checked out my foot, and it turns out that I have some kind of peroneal tendon injury. The sports medicine doctor did an ultrasound of my foot (I can't get an MRI done because I have lots of metal around my lateral malleolus from the previous operations). There is no tearing yet, but there is a lot of swelling. Because I've already had two surgeries in this exact area, my doctor wants to be sure that we don't rush into surgery again and cause even more scar tissue to develop. My surgeon suggested that the sports medicine doctor give me a shot of cortisone, which he did. I got the cortisone shot the day before Thanksgiving, and for a week I felt GREAT. It was amazing to going from having awful pain (with activity) every day to having no pain at all. I iced and elevated my foot several times a day as well. However, after a week, the pain started coming back. It's getting pretty bad now, and I'm also getting a huge black and blue mark around where I got the shot. I've been checking my foot every night to see if anything bruised because of the shot, but I did not notice anything until two days ago. Plus, I don't think it would take two weeks to develop a bruise where I got the shot... I haven't really been doing much these past couple of weeks anyway, other than icing and elevating my foot and going on a stationary bike every day for 30-35 minutes (but I ALWAYS wear a brace and I'm very, very careful not to move my foot too much). Other than that, I've mostly been home studying for the GRE. So, my question is this: Because I'm beginning to have almost constant, pretty bad pain now (that almost feels like a burning sensation), should I go to the emergency room? Like I've said, I've dealt with pain in my foot for my entire life, so pain in my ankle hasn't really freaked me out at all -- until now. The earliest my doctors can get me into the office is December 29th so I will be sure to bring these concerns up with them, but I'm not sure if I should do something before then too. This is getting really bad and now I'm starting to worry. Sorry this whole post is kind of jumbled... my mind is just racing because I want to make sure I don't leave any details out! Please help! Advice would be great! Umm, thanks for your advice, but just so you're aware... heating a chronic inflammatory injury is a really, really BAD idea. It makes inflammation worse, not better. ? Suspicious sprained ankle.? About 2 weeks ago my right ankle started swelling. Don't remember tripping/stepping awkwardly or hurting it at all. It doesn't hurt to walk or move my ankle and only feel pain if something touches my ankle directly. There is a noticeable bump right above lateral malleolus (?I think that's the name for the bone that creates the bump on your ankle... not sure???) and it hurts pretty bad if touched and the right side of my big toe has been completely numb ever since the swelling started. No bruising ever occurred either. Don't have health insurance so this is about the best thing I can do lol. ankle sprain/hairline fracture? Okay so long story short, I am a cheerleader and at our first competition, i landed a roundoff kind of weird, and my ankle sort of popped out of place and back in place. But I have a really high pain tolerance so I kept going. So today I went to the doctors, and she said the outter side (lateral?) of my left ankle is sprained, but she thinks I tore quite a few ligaments, and she also thinks I have a few hairline fractures (one on the bone that goes along the side of the foot towards the pinky toe, and some otherones on the top and other side of my foot). So, I am going to an orthopedic tomorrow, to get xrays, and to see what they say. My ankle isn't crazy swollen. The side of it is, and the top of it is, and some other random places are. But its not as rediculous as I've seen some before. I have figured out a way to walk on it, so that the pain isnt rediculous, and i also just dont turn my foot in any way, or else the pain is crazy. What do you think the orthopedics will do? I told my doctor, its really important to me that I can continue cheering. This is my senior year and we only have a few weeks left of cheering and competitions... So, with that said.......do you think they will have me get an ankle stirrup, or a walking boot or what? I haven't had any hairline fractures before. And I really would prefer to NOT use crutches. Being that its winter, there is ice, and I'd rather just walk normally... What is wrong with my ankle? Three weeks ago in practice (I'm a punter on my football team), I punted the ball and while my leg was extended in the air, a player ran into the lateral malleolus part of my ankle. Immediately after it happened it began to swell up and I was in extreme pain. The athletic trainer didn't evaluate at all, she said that I just needed to walk it off. I played 100% every single day of practice and through 2 games in terrible pain. When I went out to practice this past Monday (10/04/2010), the trainer told me to get an X-Ray. The X-Ray results came back and they said nothing is broken, its just a really bad sprain, so they put it in a posterior ankle splint. My doctor told me the swelling and bruising should've gone away by now, but both are getting progressively worse, as well as the pain. What could be wrong with my ankle? Do I need to go get an MRI? Thank you so much for your help! help with a group of injuries which have become chronic and prevent me from running? it began when i was at O.C.S. for the marines in the summer of 07. During the training and a few weeks after i came home, had a pain in my left tibia which i assumed was shin splints. Used the R.I.C.E. method and symptoms dissipated. Began a training regiment again and several weeks later symptoms returned. Same pro cautions taken along with fitting for new shoes. the symptoms dissipated again but returned when training resumed several weeks later and did not heal. in Feb. 08 sought medical attention with a round of X-Ray and MRI both were clean. over the next three years having the same problem as well as a mild pain in right tibia which happened gradually along with snapping hip and lower back pain. all symptomatic areas along with multiple test checking for various abnormalities in laboratory tests. Results: Isthmic Spondylolisthesis Grade 1, 3mm no disc issues or movement on flexion or extension great lordic alignment and wide spinal canal( no nerve impingement or serious degeneration) mri no tendon injuries or tears clean bone scans muscle compartment pressure tests positive four compartment left leg, two in right( some compartment going above 30 mm hg at rest. compartmental release Oct. 2010 (all compartment) x ray- mild rear foot valgus bilateral Lingering symptoms: lower leg pain bilateral, chronic left lateral ankle sprains, medial left knee pain, lower back pain along the ilium ( med with back specialist and physiatrist : both don't thinks its the Spondylolisthesis) snapping right hip. noticeable deviation in bio-mechanics, since 08, probably why back hurts! If anyone has any advice or possible causes i would immensely appreciate it. think I'm a little young for such a variety of painful areas, only 25, located in nyc ( in case anyone can refer a physician) Sharp pain outside of right foot? For a little over a day now I've had a shooting pain on the outside of my right foot whenever I walk. It's located directly in front of my heel on the far outside of my foot. When I put my entire foot on the ground and put weight on it, the pain shoots up to just below my lateral maleolus (the bump on the outside of your ankle). If I walk on my toes there is no pain. Does anyone have any experience with this or have a possible explanation? * I forgot to add that I am a 17 year old athletic female. ankle hurts a lot but barely swollen? Well today during track / cross country practice, we were doing laps around a lake. There was this small pot hole that was covered by leaves, I stepped on it and my ankle bent and my entire body weight went onto the bent left ankle. Now It's barely swollen, but it's almost impossible for me to walk, unless I limp around. My mom's telling me it isn't broken because it isn't swollen. I've researched it online and it doesn't have to be swollen to be broken does it? Also when I bend my toes and release it, just my ankle alone hurts. I can move my feet around to a certain point, and when I move it back, there is this excruciating pain. I believe it is my LATERAL MALLEOLUS (the round shaped bone that sticks out of your ankle that faces opposite of the other leg) Sorry not really good at bone names. So my question is, are there any chances my ankle might be broken and that no swelling is possible for broken bones? Oh I didn't see it earlier, and when I mean move, I mean move about .25 of an inch and the pain kicks in, it hurts alone without moving it. Almost impossible for me to move without it hurting. Oh and also, the pain is coming more towards the inner ankle, not the bone itself, the pain is coming from under the bone. ankle surgery for unstable ankle yes or no?????????? i sprained my left ankle in april 2010, after the sprain i just went to the doctor, she done usual checks said i had soft tissue damage, then she had it bandaged told me to get one of them support stockings and some pain killers and keep my foot elevated to let the fluid out. i did that for about 2 or maybe 3 weeks, after that i went back to work my ankle seemed fine even went back playing basketball played in a few matches it was fine or so i thought until 1 night at basketball i got an accidental push from somebody on the other team, it was when i got home after that my ankle got quite painful had to take pain killers and it swelled up pretty big. oh by the way when i first sprained my ankle i rolled my foot inwards which i think is called an inversion???? it was only lately after i got the second sprain i got some physiotherapy, she done an ultra sound on my ankle every time i attended and told me i tore some of the lateral ligaments, i did what the physiotherapy told me to do as best as i could doing the exercises, in the beginning it did do me good but right now i am back at square 1 with an unstable and swollen ankle oh and yes i did ice the ankle. Lateral Mallelous fracture on the fibula treatment? Hi, I rolled my ankle outwards a little over a month ago while landing on someones foot during basketball. at the time I thought it was just a sprained ankle, but now I'm thinking its a lateral mallelous fracture based on the research I've done. Is it possible that this type of fracture still allows u to run with no pain? or would I definately have been in pain if it was a fracture? btw I dont have medical insurance so I just treated it as if it were a sprained ankle. Ankle slightly eversed while walking - help? I've had an inversion sprain (torn lateral ligament). So during my recovery period I didn't place my foot straight, but slightly "everted" - meaning that my ankle would slightly point inwards. So my left shoes would have the inner edge significantly more outworn. After recovery, I had fully stabilized my foot and didn't see pain or any other problems ever since. BUT now I have been wearing the same shoes I wore during recovery period and I've been doing that for quite a while. As a result, my ankle is now eversed when I step on that foot and it starts to hurt. Even without those shoes, the ankle is not straight now and I have to put effort to straighten it. This is a high risk of injury as I am training my legs intensively every day. What can I do (exercises or whatever) to straighten the ankle once again? I am trying to place it straight (I think that's how I got over it the first time), but it's really frustrating. AND I don't want any bandages and stuff like that as it weakens the ankle eventually. Thanks for your help! Ankle pain that's not related to injury? I have never sprained or injured my ankles in my life. At first it was a slight aching sensation during sports of intense lateral movement, such as volleyball or tennis, but when I taped them or wore a brace it only made the pain a lot worse. (Pain is located on top and outside of ankle) Now they hurt all the time, even when I'm sitting in a chair doing nothing. Also when I roll them around every few minutes they make a popping noise similar to cracking your knuckles. Again, I have never sprained or injured my ankles in my life. I saw a sports therapist about it and he recommended heel lifts, but those worked for only about a week. As I am only 20, this is a major concern for me as I would like to remain physically active. What could be the cause and what are some potential treatments? I've heard it said that the problem could be in my shoes, but I'm not so sure that's the case. Ankle Pain - Please Help? I just started a new job and can't see a doctor about this just yet. So any help would be nice. I have pain in my left ankle. It doesn't look swollen. When sitting with my feet flat on the floor, I only feel minor discomfort when everting my foot. When I stand, I feel a general discomfort, but nothing painful yet. It doesn't hurt to stand on tiptoe. It hurts when I stand on my heel, or lean my weight back into my heel. More so when I lean laterally to my left than medially to my right. There is no pain upon palpation on the dorsal side of my foot. No pain upon palpation on the medial or lateral sides of my foot. And no pain upon palpation on the plantar side of my foot. The pain when I walk is never consistent. It hurts the most after I wake up in the morning or after I've been sitting for longer periods of time. After which it slowly gets better until I can walk like normal, with only a minor discomfort. Also, if I walk for longer periods of time, it will start to hurt a little bit more. Possible Contributing Factors I just got out of massage therapy school and am now working in the field full time. Perhaps the change from working on clients once a week and only doing a handful of massages in class every week versus now working on multiple clients a day is putting a stain on my body that I'm not used to yet. I walk everywhere. I live overseas in Europe and walk 2.5 miles to work and back everyday. I walk to the grocery store, etc. This is a change from when I lived in the States because there I drove everywhere. Also with walking, it's not a flat surface pretty much the entire way to work because of the snow and ice. Other than that, I don't recall doing anything/any event that would cause this pain. My current plan of action is to ice it today and if the pain is still present tomorrow, ice it tomorrow too. Hopefully it won't hurt after that because I have to work. If you're in the medical field and believe this is something I should see a doctor about, let me know and I'll go talk to the appropriate people at work to see if I could get that set up but it doesn't seem like something that bad. Please, if you leave a response with advice, please list your credentials in the medical field. i.e. I'm a Doctor or I'm a nurse or something like that. Thank you for your time and consideration and I hope I provided enough detail to help you. Perhaps an ankle brace? Thoughts? 1) Is you ankle sensitive to direct pressure? Yes, it's sensitive. However, it's really odd. If I've been sitting for a while or when I wake up in the morning, it hurts quite a bit for a few minutes and then subsides to a dull ache. 2) Is there any redness or bruising visible? No, there is no redness or bruising. 3) Where exactly is the pain located in the ankle? (back i.e Achilles Tendon / Lower towards the calcaneus?) I think I can safely rule out the Achilles Tendon. It seems to be centered in the crease of my foot, but more so on the lateral side. 4) What kind of shoes do you usually wear (both for work and casual)? When walking, I alternate between tennis shoes and my boots depending on weather conditions. At work I wear flats when walking around the resort, but when I'm with clients doing massage, I've been working barefoot (this was do to some rather nasty blisters though. Now that they've cleared up I'll be wearing my shoes the entire time) 5) Did I've had hardware in my ankle for 6 years which is causing pain, but x rays are fine? When I was 16, I asked my parents if I could spend the night at my friends house. When they said, no, I decided to take matters into my own hands. I told them I was "going to bed", but instead I jumped out of my window to sneak off. I landed standing up in a bush, breaking my ankle, laterally. Because I was such a stupid teenager at the time, I didn't pay attention to any of the important details and 6 years later, I've been unable to track down any of my medical records from that time. All I remember was that my ankle was broken in several different areas in a lateral angle. My doctor performed surgery, putting in place a plate and 7 screws and explaining that it was NOT a possibility to remove these pieces, because it's holding my ankle together and would otherwise collapse. I am now having serious issues with my stupid ankle. It hurts to walk, drive and sometimes, just to sit. I don't have to be putting any pressure on my ankle at all to inflict this pain. I went to the emergency room last week, because it had suddenly swelled up to a softball size and had become totally unbearable. I was given medication for pain and swelling. I went to the doctor today, where I got the same answers as I did in the ER- the x rays look great, everything looks great, come back in 4 weeks if it flares up again. Otherwise, everything is great. I understand that everything looks "great". I get it. But it feels TERRIBLE! I feel a stabbing on the outer side of my ankle and the back side, also, throbbing pain on the top of my leg all the way up to my knee. I don't go on walks anymore, because of it, I try no to drive anywhere, because even that's too much for my ankle to take, I'm 22 years old and I walk like I'm 90 years old! I just can't take it anymore! Is there any way I can solve this problem? I could at the very least, use some advice on the right questions to ask my doctor, or plainly, how to talk to him about it. I met this new doctor for the first time today and spoke to him for a matter of 2-3 minutes. I understand that I don't know much about these things and I understand that everything looks "great", but the doctor can't FEEL it, like I do. It feels wrong, it looks like it's bulging, but that didn't seem to be a concern to the doctor, I just... I know I messed up as a teenager by making that jump, but I can't go back and change that. All teenagers are stupid, I just so happened to be even dumber than most. I did something that will affect my body for the rest of my life, but do I really have to be in this much pain forever? I'm hoping I can live to be an old lady... at least up to my 70's... do I have to live like this for another 50 years? Help me with my ankle pain ? ? I have this pain on the top lateral side of my right foot that is constant , but more painful while doing sports and right after , any ideas of what that could be from? I didnt have a pre injury the pain just sorta started a while ago . Its sort of an aching pain , and sometimes a throbbing and sharp pain Probably 4-5 times in the past few years I have had sudden excruciating pain in my left lateral ankle.? It is severe and occurred at random times lasting 20 minutes to a few hours then completely resolves just as sudden. Any clue what it could be?. Back Pain Knee Pain Headache Migraine Fibromyalgia Stomach Pain Foot Pain Ankle Pain Wrist Pain Pinched Nerve Search The Pain Relief Site is Here to Help Rentawebmaster.ca .

The Pain Relief Site is Here to Help > severe ankle pain information > severe ankle pain Knowledge Base severe ankle pain Knowledge Base severe ankle pain? i had a heavy metal box fall over and hit the back of my ankle 2 days ago and it bruised it. It hurt to walk a bit, then now i cant flex my ankle and foot without it feeling like i am wripping a ligament or something. When i walk i have severe pain and can't hardly walk. Could it be ligament damage. What would cause this Severe Ankle Pain? My Ankle is swollen and hurts when i walk on it. I've gone for an x-ray and nothing showed up. I'm Overweight could that have something to do with it ?? thanks :) Im 28 weeks prego and having severe ankle and back pain. Any suggestions? Iv been having horrible ankle pain for about 2 weeks were it is keeping me up at night. With some swelling. Now my back pain is getting worse, almost were I cant walk. Ive tried hot and cold presses for both but not helping. Does anyone know what I can do? I have not gained much weight in my pregnancy. I Have severe ankle pain during and after practice....? After I run, both ankles have severe pain. If I just stand, it feels a little unsure and even begins to slightly shake...if I move my foot, or begin to walk, it is extremely painful. This last several hours after practice. If I elevate them, it hurts MUCH more when I bring it down. Why does it do this, and how can I prevent it??? Please do not say "get new shoes" or "you broke/sprained/strained something(it is obvious I didn't if it is the same pain in both ankles) Thanks P.S. I'm talkin bout baseball practice, if it helps (which means I am wearing cleats) The pain is not present while I run, or if i pick up and begin running after the pain has started....as soon as I stop though, it begins again (more severe). Severe ankle pain from twist? I today had my ankle give out and twisted (Almost 360 like 300) and now it wont stop hurting. I tried ice, cold water, walking it off. Nothing seems to work. I had to fashion a cane out of a stick and gravity (My best friend) is pulling so hard that my ankle feels like a million supernovas going off in my ankle. Anyway to get rid of this?? Not able to purchase anything, not able to drive anywhere, not able to take pills (Personal choice) Halp me? Severe ankle pain. . . ? Im a runner, I run about 3-5 miles a day. For about two months, I've had a sharp pain in the outside of my ankle. At first it wasn't bad, but now it's completely awful. I don't remember injuring it so I never saw a doctor. Like I said, the pain is pretty severe and there's a little swelling. I haven't been able to run at all in the past week. It used to just be pain when running, but now I'm having pain all the time. I'm currently using crutches because I can't put much weight on it. What could be wrong? How should I treat it? should i try some sort of ankle brace? I am having severe ankle pain, but I have no injury that i know of... any ideas? It hurts the most when i try to walk or stand, but it is still a dull achey pain when i am laying or sitting down. I don't know what I should do or what it could be. I have gotten a new job but it was no different then my last i am still on my feet all day. so nothing is really new there. Please help I am in a lot of pain and Ib profin isn't helping at all really... please help severe ankle pain? I fell down the stairs yesterday and my ankle hurt really bad. I laid down and put ice on it and stuff like that. It still hurts today and I can't put any pressure on it or it hurts really bad. It isn't swollen or bruised but could it still be a sprain?or something else? I'm having severe ankle pain, help?! I have sudden severe ankle pain following a 8' fall, could I have a fracture? There is this big guy at my school that flipped me over his arm up on the stage. I was bare footed and hit down pretty hard, I immidately felt pain and it hurt really bad for the rest of the night. It is not so painful the next morning but there is still pain. I was wondering if it could be a fracture? Or if I should still go to the hospital? (no dr. offices are open) I'm having severe ankle pain....Question?! Severe Ankle Pain.. No Insurance? help please? New years eve I tripped and sprained my ankle. I was put on crutches by my doctor for a week and we got it x-rayed. Nothing is broken but the doctor said that I fall under the 10% category of ankle sprains that are worse then the other 90%. They put a gel ankle brace on it and I am able to walk. I have only been off crutches for one day and earlier today my brother kicked my ankle. It feels like a knife is being continuously jabbed into my ankle. I took pain reliever and I'm using a heating pad because ice makes the pain worse. What can I do to help relive the pain faster? This is the most it's ever hurt sense I sprained it. My doctor said I can either heat or ice? Severe ankle pain, comes and goes.? Comes around every 3 to 4 months, notice it more when the weather changes. It's not the same ankle every time. When I was younger I messed up both ankles and played football from the age of 9 to 18 and never wrapped them, like I should have. Now one or the other every 3 - 4 months will swell up and become to stiff to move and I can hardly walk. I have looked online and found it could be arthritis. I can lessen the pain by ice and ibuprofen. Some times it hurts so bad it feels like it is going up my leg and down the top of my foot. It will last around 4-5 days and be fine like nothing happened. Any ideas? I know a x-ray would answer the question, but like so many people I can't afford it right now. :)? Severe pain in ankle after sitting for ahile and goes away after walking for awhile? Sometimes the pain will be so bad that I can only crawl (usually after I wake up the day after doing a lot of walking). The pain always gets better the more I move around. What is this? I am in my early 20's. Does anyone else out there have it? All those who've had ankle surgery: How severe was the pain you were in after? I'm in pretty severe pain unless i lay in bed with foot up on pillows, and my toes are various shades of red and purple and I cant wiggle them more than a tiny bit I am having severe pain to the top of my ankle.I did not have an injury.I cannot bend my ankle do to the pain? I cannot bear weight.This began afetr I started having pain to my right wrist and then a couple days later a knot came up on my left wrist and pain began there too.The pain to my wrists is on the thumb side. I am facing severe pain in my leg around my knee and ankle, is it a ligament fracture? i twisted my leg while playing football 2-2.5 years back since then i am facing severe pain in my leg around my knee and ankle doctor is not able to understand through x-ray is it a ligament fracture How long should a severe ankle sprain hurt? My daughter who is 10 apparently has a severe sprained ankle. She has brusing times 4 days now, still in severe pain, still can not move her foot without severe pain and even has pain when she sits and does not move it. They did an x-ray the day she sprained it and saw no noticeable breaks. Should I be concerned or is this normal? Ankle pain or sensitivity to the touch? Occasionally I have severe ankle pain... it is so sensitive when I touch it or when my pants leg touches it. Sometimes it is just sensitive and very painful when nothing touches it. Hurts to wear socks. Any thoughts? I have moderate to severe pain in my forefoot and heel after having ankle surgery almost a year ago ? (ankle is okay, although range of motion isn't 100%and I still limp slightly) What could this be? I have degenerative arthritis due to an ankle breakage 15 years ago and am in severe pain. Any advice? When I broke my ankle they inserted a 2" plate and 13 screws. I to my Fibia. Now I am told that x rays show the ankle joint is gone, worn to nothing but bone against bone. Is surgery an option because at 54 years old I can hardly walk and can't stand the pain any more. Can someone help because I sometimes think amputation would be better than the pain and sufferng. I have some money but no insurance, every one I talk to says this is a pre-existing condition and will not be covered. severe sharp ankle pain? okay well today i woke with pain in my ankle or im not sure if is still my ankle but its the bone right on top of the heel.. like its the back of my ankle i guess.. its a sharp pain. i can take it and i could walk/limp but it hurts. i was wondering what could of been the cause bacause i dont remeber hurting it or spraining it... also so cures or remedy for the pain too because it hurts alot also its swollen severe pain in ankle, ways to relieve it?. What could be the problem with my ankle? Sometimes, when I step a severe pain will occur in the ankle.? It doesn't happen all the time, but like yesterday it happened 5 times in a hour and then not again. I have had NO injury to it that I know of. I have severe right ankle pain? A few days ago, while working my ankle started hurting. I work at a water ice place, and I walk around a lot. The pain is in the very front of my ankle, where the foot ends and the shin begins. It hurts to walk, run, arch, or bend... But not to touch, hit or anything. It's continuously worsening. I can't run without extreme pain. What should I do? Soccer pre season starts in two days and I can't miss any. What might this be and how do I make it better ASAP? Thanks! Okay, I just wanted to ad that I cannot see a doctor, or atleast anytime soon. Preseason starts today at 5:30. But today, tomorrow, and Wednesday I'm babysitting until 5:00 then going to soccer. On Thursday I'm going to Hershey Park and on Friday I'm going on vacation. This takes me to back to school time. I'm kinda scared I'm going to blow out my ankle at soccer, but I have to go if I wanna make varsity. There really is no choice. Oh and my ankle started hurting sudenly when I was at work. The joints keep popping (the ones where my foot and shin meet) and if I use my fingers to feel the area, it grinds when I move it around. Also, It really hurts to flex it up and down, so walking and running hurt. But, it doesn't hurt when I'm still. Could this be tendonitis (I've had it before, in a different area.) I've been experiencing severe anterior ankle pain for a year now.? It doesn't hurt in the mornings, but as I start walking the pain slowly comes and increases with activity. I finally decided to wear a walking cast and the ankle hurts even in a walking cast. I don't understand what is exactly wrong. X-rays don't show any damage. The MRI showed thickened anterior tibio-fibular ligament(I am sorry for misspell), but I feel pain in the anterior part of the joint itself. Can there be a cartliage damage if it hurts for so long? And can MRI miss that kind of a damage? I did 2 MRI's. I finally scheduled an arthroscopy for 12-28-07 and I am very worried about the surgery too. Is it safe? Thank you! Severe pain after having cast removed for trimallealor ankle fracture? I had surgery on my ankle and had a plate, 11 screws and 3 pins put in. I just had the cast removed today and they gave me a walking boot, but I cant put any weight on it for another month. I also have a skin irritation and have to put antibotic ointment on it three times a day and leave the boot off as much as possible so that can heal. The pain is really bad and worse than any other time during the rest of my injury. Just wondering if anyone had any similar injuries and if this is somewhat normal. Thanks In Advance.. Someone tell me.....Can a simple twisted ankle cause severe upper thigh pain?!? Last night I was jogging a few steps to cross the driveway and I landed on my ankle wrong, causig some severe pain for about a minute. It seemed to go right away as soon as I went from jogging to walking. I had to walk slowly, but other than that, I was just fine. I went inside and went to bed. I woke up this morning with the most severe pain in my upper thigh of that same leg. The pain is so severe that I can barely put enough weight on it to walk and if I try to kneel and totally bend my leg, it just can't happen. It hurts too much. Could this have something to do with the little ankle twisting? Would it be a waste of time to go to the doctor? Should I just take some ibuprofen and wait? It really FRIGGEN hurts! Severe pain in ankle bone with shooting pains up leg 2 weeks after a sprain? I broke my ankle/bottom leg last August and required surgery to insert pin. I had surgery 4 weeks ago and had the pin removed, no problems. My friend whom is a nurse removed my stitches 14 days later. Last Wednesday the same friend slipped and fell back onto the ankle. I was in agony and couldnt walk. The ankle was swollen so I went to the hospital. I explained everything and they did an x-ray. They said that the old fracture had healed but was still showing as line in xray & still week with hollow bit due to the pin being removed. Im not sure if they checked for further damage anywhere else or ligemants/tendoms. Only to make sure old fracture wasnt hurt again. They advised me it was a bad sprain and gave me pain relief to take home. Im already on Co-Codomal and Tramadol but they also gave me 600mg of Ibuprofen to take 3 times a day. I rested for nearly a week and the pain was getting better until yesterday. The pain became very bad and I had burning, shooting and almost electric shock pains in it spreading up the leg, even my hip. It feels like flu pain that you get only 10 times worse with little jolts of pain. Slight tingling. Its not as swollen and not sore or warm to touch. Ive not been taking the pain killers constantly as Ive been on them a long time an dont want to get addicted just take when I cant take pain anymore like today and its only eased although im drowsey. Ive nearly been crying with the pain a few times and I have a high threshold for pain. Im currently on sofa with leg raised but Im quite concerned about the pain as a friend suggested it could be an infection in the bone or nerve damage. I know if I go and see my GP they will just tell me to go to the hospital but Im reluctant to go to the hospital again as they said it was just a sprain and dont want them to think Im wasting there time however as the swelling and pain had eased earlier in the week and now its back and very sore/keeping me awake im worried. Ive also been feeling sick with diahorrea few days ago, have sore throat with white spots and generally look n feel awful,sweating buckets at night which is prob unrelated.Any suggestions?Please be kind, Im not suggesting Im a proffessional or anyone else is but I dont want to waste a doctor/hospitals time and I hate NHS 24. Ive tried to explain it my best..hopefully its not swine flu!!! severe pain in my ankle! i'm scared please help D:? hey everyone! so today, i was at tennis practice, and i was bending down to pick up a ball when my ankle just randomly collapsed so i fell haha sorta faceplanted and when i was landing i might have landed the wrong way because when i got up, my ankle hurt. and i brushed it off and continued playing thinking that it might reposition itself if it was dislocated. it was better after a while but when i got home, the pain became more severe to the point of hurting when pressure is applied. it was my left foot and it only hurts on the outer side of it which is weird. i can walk but it really hurts like i can't apply pressure to it. it's not swollen or bruised but the outer side hurts if pressure is applied so i can't walk normally. i've put on a hot and cold patch but it's not doing much so far. i've also been massaging it and rotating the ankle and i hear a crack everytime i get to a certain position. what do you think the problem is? how can i releive the pain? how long do you think it will take to heal? how should i get it fixed? has anything like this happened to you before? thanks so much i really appreciate everyone's help! Cindy? Ankle injury - severe pain walking? I went to the ortho and he treated this injure like a minor injury. He said the integrity of the ankle and achilles is fine, but that my calf and ankle muscles and flexibility are poor. He suggested I go do some PT, but that was it. I told him it hurt when I walk and he said it would go away in a few days. But this is unbearable. I took 800mg of advil in one shot and nothing. I called him up and the nurse told me theres not much more to do but avoid walking. This is poor physician quality. He never took an xray. Just examined with his hands. Something is wrong. It can't be expected that I have to walk around in agonizing pain and limping towards the other side. Is this guy's diagnosis even remotely valid? swollen ankle and foot not gout severe pain over a month beginning to worry? doctors treated me for gout but foot is still swollen severe pain cant stand for long periods of time.need help open to any suggestions what this might be Kind of bad ankle pain... Not severe but...? I fell the saturday night, kind of strangely and my ankle hurt afterwards. But it went away, and I had almost no pain yesterday until last night, and now it still hurts. It only hurts when I stretch my foot towardsmy leg and pull my toes towards my leg. It also hurts if I strech it out so that it's pointing straight.. severe sudden ankle pain? Severe pain after ankle sprain? I sprained my ankle last wednesday morning (9 days ago). I got an xray day one and although the medical personnel seemed incompetent at the urgent care I went to, they said no break. The first couple of days I literally crawled around. The next couple it felt a little better and I even got around a sporting goods store using the cart. A couple of days after that,,,it got nothing but worse. Whenever my foot is not elevated it feels like actual fire is pumping through the veins on my outer ankle. My mobility is so bad I cannot evn simply have my foot in the air without being in a brace because even gravity hurts it. I cannot touch it with my fingers- or let it hit the floor or I will literally scream in agony. I went back to my family doctor a couple of days ago. He put it in a walking cast/boot and I have worn that for 48 hours non stop. No improvement...even worse I think. I took the cast off and the outer ankle is swollen in the shape of a star and bright red. The rest of the foot is yellow green black purple etc.. The foot is also having involuntary muscle spasms in the toes and the side that did not sustain the significant damage (inside ankle). The worst part is that because I can't put the foot down- even in the boot, it is like my ankle has to carry around the heavy boot. The doc wanted me to leave the boot on for 72 hours non stop. Do I need to see a specialist? My b/f has had severe pain in the ankle, toe and elbow...? he has had it since x-mas. and it is not gout we have ruled that out . So any suggestions , maybe a different type of of arthritis.. please help I have a severe pain at the back of my ankle which comes on suddenly for days? and then goes.. I am 77years of age so obviously its not a sporting injury! anyone help? Left ankle broken & severe right knee pain..anything I can do for the knee? I am on crutches for my broken ankle so getting up is terribly painful now due to my right knee giving out. Would a cortisone shot help till my ankle heals? I was very active (working out 4x a week) b4 breaking my ankle. Unfortunately I have fallen many times on the right knee and now think all that damage has caught up with me since my right leg is doing majority of the work. severe ankle pain, any help solving? Hi, I am a healthy, 18 year old female, and every now and again, I obtained a very severe throbbing pain in my left lower ankle, this pain comes and gos, and is very random. This is actually the first time it has happened in a long time. I am now icing it and have it wrapped, is there anything else that I can do without having to go to the doctor, (i have no insurance, I would really not like wasting my money) i have taken anti-inflammatory drugs before for my back and have had horrible results, so I do not want to go down that path again, any help would be appreciated. severe ankle pain, please help? I sprained my ankle about a week ago, it started feeling better and i was walking on it without much problem, then last night i was sitting on the floor and when i went to get up, my ankle that i had sprained a week prior cracked, not a severe crack, but like a crack when someones knee crack or when someone cracks their knuckles, now at first when i stood up and walked the crack made it feel really good, then after about 2 steps, severe pain started shooting all throughout my ankle and half way up my shin. would this be a pinched nerve, or a break, or maybe even a minor dislocation? when i dont move my foot there is no pain but my ankle area feels slightly numb and if i move my ankle up or down (well try, i cannot because the pain is so bad but pain is the only thing disabling me from moving it up and down) TERRIBLE pain shoots all over like i described earlier. if anyone could shed some light on this ASAP that would be great as i have important things and work that needs to be done that i cant do without walking which i cannot do very well at all I can stand on my toes with virtually no pain and bob up in down but when its normal rolling of the foot while walking it kills but like no pain to very minimal pain when doing nothing, hurts when i cross my leg but it feels like a pressure pain, i read someplace that it could be scar tissue that entered where my ankle cracked resulting in a pinched nerve, was looking some expert advice, emergency room and doctor isnt really an option as i currently do not have health insurance and no work atm My fiance rubbed it for a while and ive retained some range of motion. tho when i do it i feel a slight grinding type pop that is only moderately painful and it feels like its right in the joint where the ankle connects to the lower leg Also, the crack in my ankle i stated in my first post, was not like a huge crack or snap sound, it was only like a minor knuckle crack when someone cracks their knuckles, and a break or fracture wouldnt have felt good would it have? cause when it cracked for me it felt good then the pain came Marching band-severe ankle pain? I'm a sophomore in high school and in marching band. During the summer we have an Intense band camp that involves continuous movement/awkward positioning of the ankles. Recently I have had severe pain in both my ankles that has seemed to spread to the top and side of my feet as well. I marched last year and no such thing happened and as far as I know nothing is being done differently. I've never sprained or broken anything before so I don't know what it feels like. Have I sprained both my ankles? Or have the muscles been overworked? Any info would be greatly appreciated. I've been having severe ankle pain but no health insurance HELP? the back of my ankle has been hurting me so bad lately, i haven't fell or anything and its getting to where i want to go see a doctor but i don't have health insurance, will they still see me? I have severe ankle pain in both my ankles. It is on the back of my ankles and they hurt all the time? I went to the doctor and he said I had tendinitis. He gave me some naproxen but it is not working. I am a diabetic so I don't know if that has something to do with it. The pain in my ankles are so severe sometimes that I just cry. It is so tender that if I just accidentaly bump them I am in such pain. I just wish they would find out for sure what is wrong with me. I work in a grocery store and by noon I am walking with a limp. Anyone have any suggestions Severe outer ankle pain? For the past week and a half jogging, I had a little ankle pain above the bone on the outside, only while running. It progressivly got worse, them didn't hurt at all one day, the next I ran just a little and suddenly got fairly severe pain, but walked it off. It stopped hurting, and all was good...that was yesterday, and now it's tight and painful as h*ll, under my foot and in the same area on the ankle. What'd I do? Why is my heel/ankle in severe pain? For the past couple of days, I have had (randomly) a severe pain in my heel and surrounding ankle area. It's sorest when I put any kind of weight on it whatsoever. Also, I haven't been playing any sports in the past couple of weeks either. I'm baffled as to what has caused this...? Severe ankle pain while riding? when i ride english the stirrups feel really short to me, and the only issue with that is a severe pain in either or both of my ankles. is there any way to keep this from happening? as soon as i take my feet out of the stirrups i'm fine. could a brace help? the stirrups are the correct length btw I just ride western so they feel short Severe Ankle Pain. Fell on the icy driveway. HELP!? this morning, i slipped and fell on my driveway. my ankle did not hit anything, but it slipped under me, twisted, and i ultimately fell on top of it. severe pain from the start. not broken i could walk on it, and continued too all day. major swelling, little bit of bruising. hairline fracture maybe? i know you can't tell without an x-ray. but thought and opinions on it. it's elevated, wrapped in an ace bandage, and i have ice on it. 10pts to most thought-out and well put, easily understandable answer. THANK YOU. Is it normal to have almost severe ankle pain after getting it adjusted? Severe ankle pain when resting feels heavy and achy? When i sit down or lay down i get a pain in my right ankle mainly on the outer right side at the sort of back end of my ankle, on top where the foot joins and sometimes a slight pain on the inside again at the back (sort of the back of the foot) It feels really achy and as if my foot is loose and i cant get it comfy, if i put a duvet over my foot it feels too heavy as if its pushing my foot away from me. I tried wearing an ankle support but it didnt do much, ive tried changing shoes and taking pain killers but the pain always comes back. Does anyone have any solutions or ideas what this could be? Thankyou (im 19 im of healthy weight and build and i do an average amount of walking and standing in a day).. Severe knee and ankle pain!? Over the past few hours I have severe/ish aching pains in my knee and ankle/foot. It hurts even when at rest and I have done nothing to cause this! What could this be? :/ following a fever after about 9 daysw and a very severe leg rash I am now having severe ankle pain and swelli? i first had a fever then a very bad rash on ankle lower legs then 9 days later my ankle had a red swollen very painfull area could this be a clot? Severe ankle/Achilles pain: what could it be? The last few days I have been experiencing some erratic pain in my Achilles tendon. Most of the time I am able to walk and move with no pain at all. But there have been a few times when it becomes difficult and extremely painful to flex my ankle upward (bringing my toes towards my shin, as to stretch my Achilles to full length). It feels almost as if it catches halfway through extending and 'uncatching' it causes a lot of pain. The pain is about halfway up the tendon. I have been able to make the pain subside by repeatedly stretching the tendon but even that isn't working as well as it did. It only seems to happen when I spend any amount of time with my leg fully extended i.e. when lying in bed. I have not had any recent trauma to the area or any type of over use. My guess is either bad tendinitis or a partial tear of the Achilles. does plantars fasciitis cause chronic ankle pain? I have had plantars fasciitis for a year now and in the past months have had chronic ankle pain. Spent the whole weekend walking and had severe ankle pain for the next week. I have not had orthotics made due to the expense, and am just wondering if the two go hand in hand? I fell about 5 years ago and stretched the ligaments out in my ankle and i still have severe pain in it? when i was 14 i fell and stretched out the ligaments in my ankle. i never went to physical therapy; my dad said i didn't need it and didn't let me go. i went back to my dance classes 2 weeks after i fell (tap, jazz, ballet, and hip-hop) and i still have severe pain and trouble walking on it sometimes. Severe ankle pain.. any ideas why? I recently started track at my school, the first 2 weeks went PERFECT. We were supposed to run over spring break, and I ran every other day. One day however, at the gym on the treadmill, my ankle started to hurt so bad I could barley walk. The past few days at track practice, while in my sprints, I could barley full sprint a 100 without tearing up from the profound pain shooting up my leg, nevertheless my usual 400m. I had to sit out half of practice as I stretched it on the bleachers. It hurts around my ankle and up my shin, and it hurts the most on impact and has a throbbing pain anytime else. Anyone have an idea what could be wrong? And if so, how to help it? ankle pain after having cast removed? I had a cast on for 6 weeks and had it removed today. I can move it and put most of my weight on it, but when I try to walk u get a stabbing/prickling pain on ny heel and quite a bad pain right on the bottom of my foot, what is this?!? Will it go away? Thanks I am suddenly having severe pain 6 weeks after spraining my ankle? At the time of the sprain, I had severe pain with minimal swelling. Was placed on crutches until I could bear weight on it (two days). Had to use prescription pain killers for two weeks. Suddenly I have sever pain again and can barely walk. This pain is more towards the back of my ankle where as the previous pain was around the front and sides. I have not done any strenuous activity nor a lot of walking really as I am on vacation. Have been walking on flat ground. I some Aleve and is not helping...any ideas. Severe Ankle Pain and Injury? 2 weeks ago today me and my mom were playing catch and i fell off a curb. we went to the hospital and they did an x ray and said it wasnt broken but i could have some ligament damage or something and to go to an orthopedist if not better. i was on crutches for about 3 days and then i was able to walk a little bit so i did and for a week it was like a 5 on the scale to 1-10 and now its like an 8. when i move it up and down the pain goes from the ankle bone on the right to the one on the left and the pain goes around to my achilles heel and it hurts really bad and when i move it side to side it feel like its gonna burst. please can someone explain this to me and should i see the orthopedist Severe knee and ankle pain? I'm a 16 year old female. I have severe pain in both my knee and ankle, sometimes going all the way to my shin. I have had ankle issues in the past, but the doctor told me to ice it and wear a brace. I did for 3 months and everything was good, (this was like 2 years ago). Last year, I started have severe knee pain. My doctor told me it was growing pains, and sent me to physical therapy for 6 months and nothing worked. Then that August, I heard a popping in my knee, and ended up having a torn meniscus and had surgery on it (with a different doctor). I went to physical therapy for 6 months (a long time I know,) and they told me that the everything seemed to be fine, and gave me a brace and let me go. I STILL continue to have knee AND ankle pain in my left leg. Ice doesn't help. The only thing that seems to help is if I don't move my entire leg, at all. Even moving it the slightest bit hurts. I have a limp, and it's because of my knee/ankle and my left knee also cannot bend straight? Haha, if that helps Now, my knee and ankle hurts 24/7, with my hip and shin hurting the sometimes. Like severe pain. My knee, ankle and hip also pop a lot. Do you know what I could have or what could be happening? I don't know what to do. I've been to 4 doctors in the past, and none have helped. :/ It's really hard to function because it hurts SO much, and the only thing that helps is sitting PERFECTLY still. haha, so anything that could be helpful would be great!'s. Has anyone else experienced these symptoms? Does anyone have any suggestions? After all these years, I just wish it would go away, tired of being in pain. Thanks in advance. P.S. I know I have some misspellings, the spell checker wasn't much help. Severe ankle pain after tackle went wrong? About 2 months ago I was playing a pickup football game and some dumba** took out my ankle for pretty much no reason trying to avoid being tackled. I went down I didn't hear a pop or anything but it was terrible pain. My friends helped me walk to the trainer and I got it wrapped it up and went on with day doing alot more physical activity. It was tender but I could walk on my own power and everything but that night it swelled up bad and I had to hop around for awhile but it felt good enough to exercise about 1 week or so later. I kind of went on with life and played a lot of sports and it usually felt okay but recently I've been running to try to stay in top shape but it hurts too bad alot even in a brace. The ankle bent inward when it happened and I've always had bad ankles. What do you think is wrong with it and treatment? Is my severe clinical depression making making my heart, ankle, joint pain worse possibly? I have really severe depression and ideation of suicide daily and since my third depression relapse I've had alot more ankle, heart, joint pain.. Could It be the depresion? Broken ankle- intense, severe pain? HI. I broke my ankle on Tuesday afternoon, in 2 places. 1 weight bearing bone and one supportive bone. The pain has been unbearable. I got 2 hours of sleep tonight. I am taking percocet, because oxycodine gives me some BAD gastrointestinal side affects, but I am wondering if I shouldn't just ask the orthopedic doctor is I can have somethings stronger anyway. So I am just wondering, from experience, how long does this really severe, intense pain generally last? p.s. sorry for any grammar/ spelling mistakes, like I said, I am medicated lol :) Severe ankle pain~doctor, podiatrist or ur/er? My husband has been complaining of heel/foot pain for some time but recently, the pain started becoming unbearable for him. In the past 48 hours, it's gotten to where he doesn't even want to walk on it and there's a noticeable lump on the side that wasn't there earlier. We're both young, no reliable family so I've got no one to ask for advice so...does he need to go to urgent care or er, or should I just call a doctor and get an appointment? Can he just go straight to a podiatrist? I really have no idea what to do... I met an accident on 16th January'12, n have severe pain in the ankle. Can i get relief of it ? The X-Ray and the CT Scan reported no fractures in the ankle, but still i'm having severe pain in the Ankle(not even able to walk or stand for a while) since11days !!!!.....so can anyone help me out what may be the reason for such severe pain and how to get relief from it?? Severe ankle pain after skateboarding accident.? In October of last year i decided to mess around with my old board and accidentally fractured my ankle by rolling my foot. I let it heal, and around 7 months later decided to take the steps needed to get back to the skill level i was at in skateboarding. But now, every time i take a big impact in my left ankle i get severe pain. It looks as if the talus of the foot has been pushed out to the left, making a ball or balloon indent on the side of my foot. I plan to go to a doctor again soon about this but is there anything anyone can give a diagnostic on what the pain is and why it's happening? Any info would be greatly appreciated! I have been experiencing mild to severe ankle pain all day. Any thoughts? Last night I was out with a friend learning how to skateboard. I took a few really good falls and other than a few cuts I felt fine. Our local skate park is only about 30 minutes away and we walked to and from. But when I work up this morning I started experiencing some serious pain in my ankle, which only seemed to get worst as the day went on. There isn't any bruising or swelling. I have been icing my ankle but I does seem to help that much. I can use all the help i can get so any thoughts? Thanks Back Pain Knee Pain Headache Migraine Fibromyalgia Stomach Pain Foot Pain Ankle Pain Wrist Pain Pinched Nerve Search The Pain Relief Site is Here to Help Rentawebmaster.ca .

Zip disk - CompWisdom Meaningful results bit by bit About us | Why use us? | Press | Contact us Topic: Zip disk Ads by Google Related Topics floppy disk hard disk disk drives disk storage hard disk drive hard disk drive partitioning Zip file format Zip drive 7 Zip Zip disk Encyclopedia: Floppy disk Commodore 1570 external floppy drive The Commodore 1570 was a 5¼ floppy disk drive for the Commodore 128 home/personal computer. Apple Computer was the first mass-market computer manufacturer to drop the floppy drive from a computer model altogether with the release of their iMac model in 1998, and Dell made the floppy drive optional in some models starting in 2003. A floppy disk is a data storage device that is composed of a circular piece of thin, flexible (i.e. (11907 words) Zip drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Unlike other diskette formats, the Zip's write protection is implemented on the software level instead of in the disk controller based on a signal from the drive. This resulted in a disk that has all of the 9 cm (3.5") floppy's convenience, but holds much more data, with performance that is much quicker than a standard floppy drive (though not directly competitive with hard drives). This means that the disk must be loaded in a drive and accessed on a computer to turn write protection on or off. (942 words) ZIP (file format) - encyclopedia article about ZIP (file format). The ZIP file format A file format is a particular way to encode information for storage in a computer file. Since a disk drive, or indeed any computer storage, can store only bits, the computer must have some way of converting information to 0s and 1s and vice-versa. He received a bachelor's degree in computer science from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. (450. If you use stacker to compress the disk do not reboot the system when it asks you to also you will need to make sure that the disk is none removable or it may cause in data loss, also do not use dblspace it will not work unless you are using a SCSI device. (1318 words) ChristianNerds.com - Truth and Technology - Encyclopedia Zip Disks, however, because they are a little more expensive than Floppy Disks, aren't as widely-used as Floppy Disks. Zip disks are the same size as floppy disks (3.5 inch flat squares), but are a little thicker. This is a very good thing, because Zip Disks are essentially the same as Floppy Disks, except that they hold 100 or 250 megabytes of information, as opposed to a little less than 1.4 megabytes in a Floppy Disk. (306 words) CIRT: Publications: How To #701, Format removable media (zip disk or diskette) on the Macintosh Although many pod computers support 250 MB zips, CIRT recommends you use a 100 MB zip in the event a compute with a 250 MB drive is unavailable. The zip disk must be open to erase due to security software installed on pod computers. If the zip disk is formatted for Windows (DOS 95.9 MB), you can erase the information but the disk will remain formatted forWindows. (805 words) Fujifilm Products for Learning - Imaging and Information Glossary - Zip® Disk Zip® disks come in 100MB and 250MB varieties with approximately 70 times and 175 times the storage capacity of a floppy disk, respectively. The Zip® disk is a high-capacity digital storage medium. In this way, the Zip® disk can store much more data than a standard floppy disk. (121 words) Info about Zip Disk use. People who use their Zip disks on both the Macintosh and Windows machines are also likely to have problems. The classic symptom associated with this is the failure of the computer to read the Zip disk at all. Stop using the disk at once and immediately attempt to copy all files to a hard drive and then go through file by file and attempt to open them and save them to a new disk. (447 words) Howstuffworks "How does a Zip drive store so much more data than a floppy drive?" The main thing that separates a Zip disk from a floppy disk is the magnetic coating used on the disk. The higher quality coating means that a Zip disk read/write head can be significantly smaller than a floppy disk's (by a factor of 10 or so). The 1.44-megabyte floppy disk drives that use 3.5-inch diskettes have been around for about 15 years. (351 words) Danielle Cunniff Plumer - Design Diary: Zip Disk Windows makes the process of unmounting a disk transparent; as long as a disk is not being used, and nothing on it is "open," the disk is unmounted. The interface design of most floppy disks and the Iomega Zip disk has what Donald Norman calls an "affordance," "those fundamental properties that determine just how the thing could possibly be used" (1988, p. As Donald Norman notes for a different problem, "the computer's request for confirmation is unlikely to catch the error; the user is confirming the action, not the file name" (1988, p. (726 words) Cluster Binder: Floppy and Zip Disk Repair If the disk is readable on a Mac, use the Mac to copy all files to another floppy disk. Do not allow the computer to format / initialize the disk; if you do, all data on the disk will be lost. In My Computer, right-click on the zip drive. (887. (261 words) MicroMaciDECDrive for Apple iMac The iDEC Zip can be used for data transfer, back-up and data storage. MicroMac's new iDEC-Zip for the iMac computer connects a fast external Zip drive to the iMac. The iMac desktop shows the hard disk drive and the iDEC-Zip. (402 words) macosx.com - The Answer to Mac Support - Recovering unreadable Zip disk Disk Utility says "Keys are out of order" and that I need to repair the disk, which does nothing discernible. The disk is Maxell and it doesn't have anything critical to my functioning or well-being, but I would like to recover it just the same. Zip disks are good only for transferring files. (969 words) Zip disk - Cyber Tech Help Support Forums The files that I can't open are clarisworks files which are disk doubled. I can open files that are disk doubled on the same disk. You can also try deleting a few files on the disk then retry to copy the bad files off of the disk. (270 words) Zip Disk In fact, you would have to insert it with the assistance of a hammer (Zip disks are a slightly bigger than regular floppies). The disks work in the same manner as a regular 3.5" floppy disk, except they can store up to 100 MB. A zip drive is basically a floppy drive on steroids. (107 words) Annoyances.org - Windows Explorer shows incorrect ZIP-disk file structure. (Windows XP Discussion Forum) But the real directory structure of the second disk was not shown in the Windows Explorer, instead there was the reflection of the file structure of the first disk. I even read my second-"broken" zip-disk on the different computer, but the file structure of the first disk remained, instead of the real one. >of the file structure of the first disk. (423 words) Amazon.com: Fujifilm 100 MB Zip Disk, IBM Formatted (10-Pack): Electronics ZIP 100MB disks are made possible by Fujifilm's revolutionary atomm dual-coating technology one of many next generation products in Fujifilm's full line of quality data storage media. Fujifilm is the name to trust for Zip disks because Fujifilm's proprietary ATOMM dual-coating technology is what makes the Zip disk possible. Fujifilm is the name to trust when buying ZIP media because it is Fujifilm's proprietary atomm technology inside every ZIP disk! (381 words) New Info A substantial number of Zip Drives have developed a problem commonly known as the “Click of Death,” which renders the Drive useless and damages the disk such that any data on the disk is lost. All mass storage media (hard disks, floppy disks, and removable disks) develop defective sectors as they are used. This may only happen with Zip drives that were manufactured before the middle of 1996 and have ROM Versions D.08 or lower and if your using version 6.0 Driver and Tools Software. (2862 words) Saving to a Zip Disk The zip disk drive is an alternative storage device. Once the zip disk is mounted to the desktop, SAVE AS, select desktop and then the zip disk Before you can save to a zip disk in the drive, you must mount it on your desktop. (152 words) Installing Linux on ZIP disk using ppa ZIP Drive Mini-Howto The Debian rescue disk is a SYSLINUX style boot disk, which uses a DOS formatted floppy disk and a special boot loader to avoid loading MS-DOS. The first section describes how to set up the ZIP disk and is common to both Red Hat and Slackware distribution installations.. (3339 words) Iomega: Zip: CD-RW: HDD: NAS: Data Recovery Iomega Zip Drives and Disks are an award-winning removable storage solution and now one of the most successful computer peripherals ever released. The reliable, low-cost drive for home or office users to quickly and easily safeguard, store and transfer files. Effective - plug and play to quickly and simply safeguard, store and transfer your files. (269 words) How to Back Up Data to a Zip Disk Using the" Dra-n-Drop" Method Although you can back up data to a Zip disk in a number of ways, one of the easiest is to "drag-n-drop" the files or folders from your hard drive to the Zip disk. Resize this window so that when you open the location (window) where the files/folders you want to back up are located, the windows do not overlap each other on the desktop. The instructions outlined here are based on a Windows XP computer. (506 words) Got Apex? Forums - ZIP Disk question You could go from IBM to Mac format (not reading, formatting) with no problem, but for some reason, the Zip disks that were formatted in a Mac would give all sorts of errors if we tried to re-format them to IBM. I have a MAC at home and at school they use IBM computer. (As it's already been said) you can use PC formatted Zip disks in a Mac with no problem whatsoever...but the second you put a disk into a PC which is NOT PC format, if you try to access the disk (whether Zip or floppy) it will ask to format it and nothing else. (638 words) The Zip Disk Is Dead, Long Live The Zip Disk! The Mac Observer As for everyday users, we were in the world of the floppy disk. USB-based floppy disks were "re-introduced" almost at the same price as a Zip Drive. Next to those floppies are about 70 Zip Disks. (1459 words) Xp Bootdisk Using Zip Disk Presuming that your Zip disk is not SCSI, and presuming that you cannot set the zip disk as bootable through your bios leaves few possibilities. Fourth Solution combining A: drive and Zip drive: Iomega used to have a piece of software where the A: drive booted and then transferred to the Zip drive. The first difficulty is making the Zip disk bootable. (337 words) Iomega : active disk: zip: backup: cd rw: removable storage: network attached storage: cdr: zip 100: data backup: ... You can be assured that when you close the Active Disk session and remove the drive or disk that nothing will remain on the computer. Active Disk allows you to download an Active Disk title to an Iomega Zip, Mini, or hard drive and run it from any computer. Iomega&; Active Disk allows your software applications to run everywhere you do. (535 words) Zip Disk question I haven't tried unzipping a floppy archive to a Zip disk and seeing if it will load. You'd have to load the contents of the demo floppy into your A-sampler, then save it to your Zip disk. >Another question: >If I loaded the contents of one of the demo floppy disks to a zip disk >what would be the process get the demo loaded? (178 words) Windows 95 on a Zip Disk Hence the Zip disk needs to be configured as drive A for the installation. We did it without backing up our hard disks (which contain all the source code for our software!) but you may want to back up your hard disks just in case. We need to do this in order to force Windows95 to use The ZppA when accessing the floppy drive so that the Zip drive can be used as Drive A. We will need to do this again later in order to be able to boot full Windows95 from a Zip disk. (1574 words) Zip HOWTO, Cornell MAE CFD Lab How to use a Zip disk on MAE CFD Linux machines. Linux filesystems are most useful, since they support long filenames, file ownership, privileges, symbolic links, etc. But you have to reformat the disk Linux the first time you use it. There are three ways to use Zip disks on MAE CFD Linux machines: (795 words) SCSI Iomega ZIP drives under FreeBSD On a related note: always boot your computer into FreeBSD with a ZIP disk inserted, since the ficticious geometry is setup at boot time when FreeBSD probes your hardware. If you don't care about using the same disk under both FreeBSD and Windows, "reformatting" it with a Unix FFS filesystem is certainly a better idea. First of all you will need to destroy the FAT partitions/filesystem already on the disk, and then create a new Unix filesystem with the 'newfs' command: (720 words) Zip Disk - Data Recovery (Sydney, Australia) - Click of Death and other problems @ Payam.com.au Disks that say 'this disk is not formatted, do you want to format?' Iomaga's Click of Death Problem is very common with Users of Zip100 and Zip250 Disks. Iomega claims the problem cannot be fixed and data is unrecoverable, We have provided them wrong! (236 words) Download Drag And Zip Drag And Zip version 3.5 12/07/2003 (Windows, 95, 98, ME, NT, 2K, XP)Zip, Unzip, make Self Extracting Zip files and more. Support for Zip files greater than 4 gigabytes. Users of versions of Drag And Zip prior to version 3 can upgrade to version 3.5 for $15 (126 words) Zip & Floppy Drive Data Storage : Iomega Zip & Floppy Drives for Data Backup Zip & Floppy Drive Data Storage : Iomega Zip & Floppy Drives for Data Backup Store up to 750MB Per Disk (equal to 521 floppy disks) Store up to 100MB Per Disk (equal to 70 floppy disks);IomegaProdComSession=DLltIIoFLWzUAAwpG1BAN165SNwcRfFmqRHb2yATevvpUZ42KN1P!-747045361!-1817048987!7005!7002!NONE?FOLDER<>folder_id=26891285&bmUID=1129031123500 (135 words) LinuxQuestions.org - Iomega ZIP-disk - where Linux users come for help You want to have (Assuming you're on a 100MB disk) ppa.o dependent on sd.0 (SCSI disk) and parport_pc.o (pc), sd.o dependent on scsi.o (generic SCSI module), and parport_pc.o dependent on parport.o. Your gonna want to read the Zip howto at to get you started. And the final piece of confusion: to mount a FAT formatted parallel zip disk (assuming you have no other SCSI disks) you use (562 words) Zip Disk Find, compare and buy Zip and Other Drives and other Computer Storage and Media products at Shopping.com. Read about zip disk in the free online encyclopedia and dictionary. Save time & money every time you shop online: DealTime is a free comparison-shopping service that helps you find the Web's best prices on links to everything from Computers & Electronics to Jewelry, Toys & more. (254 words) zip disk file recovery Find zip disk file recovery and more at Lycos Search. BadCopy - Software for Floppy Disk Repair, CD Data Recovery, Digital Media Recovery and ZIP Disk File Recover. Read about zip disk file recovery in the free online encyclopedia and dictionary. (576 words) Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo: Iomega Zip Disk 750mb PC and Mac 10 pack Iomega Zip disks present a fast and economical way to handle the data requirements of today's ever expanding computer applications. With more speed and more capacity, the Iomega Zip 750MB disks are the fast and durable media to back up your important data. This media offers high capacity and high data transfer rate. (319 words) iomega 100MB Zip Disk in Retail Jewel Case Expanding computer storage up to 100Mb at a time is quick and easy with a Zip 100MB Cartridge. Consolidate up to 70 floppies onto a single Zip 100MB disk! Backing up memory, creating multimedia libraries, or just taking work home is a snap with a Zip disc! (63 words) CleanCode::Gallery::Zip Disk So I sat down at my PC, popped in one of my archived Mac zip disks, and was prompted with "No data; format?" Oddly enough, if I dig through some menus and look at properties of the disk, it does show (properly) that is is a Mac-formatted disk. I find it hard to fathom why there would be a technical reason for making them non-interchangeable, but even if there is, that's a problem for Iomega to resolve, not to burden the user with. If I can look at the disk properties and see that it is a Mac-formatted disk, then when I attempt to read the disk the message I get should say so, rather than saying it is unformatted which is flat wrong! (308 words) IOMEGA 250MB ZIP DISK - 1 PACK/PC FORMATTED - ComputerGate.com This Zip disk is designed for the Zip 250 drive(item code #: GZDI250). It stores 250MB of data each and is formatted for PC computers. IOMEGA 250MB ZIP DISK - 1 PACK/PC FORMATTED (73 words) Annoyances.org - Information on zip disk gone forever? (Windows XP Discussion Forum) The workstations there were Windows 2000, and all the stuff transferred to the disk was created in XP Pro, if that means anything. Also, through a fun windows XP Pro bug involving zip drives, my main HD last time I reinstalled Windows got named F: instead of C:, and the zip became C:, if that could possibly have anything to do with it. Recently, after another HD failure, I tried to get something off the disk at a local Kinko's, and when I opened the disk, all the files and folders on it were displayed as gibberish. (258 words) First Zip Disk However, since the write protection is done by the drive hardware, if you try to use this first disk on an SGI (or any other system) before you have done a Windows/Dos or Macintosh installation, you will find the disk write protected. program, which will fail on a write protected disk. When you do a standard install the installation program on the included floppy copies off the tools for your platform and deletes the filesystem for the other platform. (357 words) What is ZIP? - A Word Definition From the Webopedia Computer Dictionary You are in the: Small Business Computing Channel Files that have been compressed with the ZIP format are called ZIP files and usually end with a. (238 words) Zip Disk and Password Protection? - PowWeb Community Forums For the future, just in case I misplace or loose the disk, is it possible to require a password to access the files in the disk? Then when opening the zip file, you would need the password to access it. How about just using something like winzip, zip up all your files using the password protection option and put the zip file on the zip drive. (277 words) Do-it-yourself fix for Iomega Zip Drive All information is for entertainment purposes only -- the author assumes no liability for any damage done by using these procedures. I originally purchased it as a refurb from Microwarehouse ($99/special) to archive files for our web design company. I have owned an Iomega Zip drive since 1997. (226 words) Zip Disk - definition of Zip Disk in Encyclopedia Zip Disk - definition of Zip Disk in Encyclopedia Embed a dictionary search in your own web page Searchword not found in the selected dictionary, but you can try the following: (50 words) Fuji - Fuji Zip Disk Media Fujifilm Zip disks come in a durable, dust-resistant cartridge and incorporate Fujifilm's exclusive ATOMM technology. ATOMM technology is a unique dual-coating system offering a non-magnetic layer for durability and an ultra-thin magnetic layer for superior high density recording. Fujifilm Zip™ Disks are the ideal media for running applications, multimedia presentations, large spreadsheets, and much more. (164 words) MJM Data Recovery: Zip disk data recovery services The logical structures of Jaz cartridges are very similar to that of hard disks. Therefore, the reasons for data loss from Jaz cartridges are essentially the same as that of a hard disk - inaccessible areas of the drive, invalid FAT, unreadable sectors etc. MJM Data Recovery: Zip disk data recovery services (92 words) About us | Why use us? | Press | Contact us Copyright © 2006 CompWisdom.com Usage implies agreement with terms.

This document was prepared with borrowed Gutenberg etext for Arthur's Classic Novels. Project Gutenberg etext was prepared by volunteers. XHTML markup by Arthur Wendover. May 30, 2004. (See source file for details.) This is the etext version of the book The Blue Moon by Laurence Housman, taken from the original etext tblmn10.txt. Arthur's Classic Novels Nillywill and Hands-pansy were the most unimportant and happy pair of lovers the world has ever gained or lost. With them it had been a case of love at first blindness since the day when they had tumbled into each other's arms in the same cradle. And Hands-pansy, when he first saw her, did not discover that Nillywill was a real princess hiding her birthright in the home of a poor peasant; nor did Nillywill, when she first saw Hands, see in him the baby-beginnings of the most honest and good heart that ever sprang out of poverty and humble parentage. So from her end of their little crib she kicked him with her royal rosy toes, and he from his kicked back and laughed: and thus, as you hear, at first blindness they fell head over ears in love with one another. Nothing could undo that; for day by day earth and sun and wind came to rub it in deeper, and water could not wash it off. So when they had been seven years together there could be no doubt that they felt as if they had been made for each other in heaven. And then something very big and sad came to pass; for one day Nillywill had to leave off being a peasant child and become a princess once more. People very grand and grown-up came to the woodside where she flowered so gaily, and caught her by the golden hair of her head and pulled her up by her dear little roots, and carried her quite away from Hands-pansy to a place she had never been in before. They put her into a large palace, with woods and terraces and landscape gardens on all sides of it; and there she sat crying and pale, saying that she wanted to be taken back to Hands- pansy and grow up and marry him, though he was but the poor peasant boy he had always been. Those that had charge of Nillywill in her high station talked wisely, telling her to forget him. "For," said they, "such a thing as a princess marrying a peasant boy can only happen once in a blue moon!" When she heard that, Nillywill began every night to watch the moon rise, hoping some evening to see it grow up like a blue flower against the dusk and shake down her wish to her like a bee out of its deep bosom. But night by night, silver, or ruddy, or primrose, it lit a place for itself in the heavens; and years went by, bringing the Princess no nearer to her desire to find room for Hands-pansy amid the splendours of her throne. She knew that he was five thousand miles away and had only wooden peasant shoes to walk in; and when she begged that she might once more have sight of him, her whole court, with the greatest utterable politeness, cried "No!" The Princess's memory sang to her of him in a thousand tunes, like woodland birds carolling; but it was within the cage which men call a crown that her thoughts moved, fluttering to be out of it and free. So time went on, and Nillywill had entered gently into sweet womanhood--the comeliest princess that ever dropped a tear; and all she could do for love was to fill her garden with dark-eyed pansies, and walk among their humble upturned faces which reminded her so well of her dear Hands--Hands who was a long five thousand miles away. "And, oh !" she sighed, watching for the blue moon to rise, "when will it come and make me at one with all my wish?" Looking up, she used to wonder what went on there. She and Hands had stolen into the woods, when children together, and watched the small earth-fairies at play, and had seen them, when the moon was full, lift up their arms to it, making, perhaps, signals of greeting to far-off moon-brothers. So she thought to herself, "What kind are the fairies up there, and who is the greatest moon-fairy of all who makes the blue moon rise and bring good-will to the sad wishers of the human race? Is it," thought Nillywill, "the moon-fairy who then opens its heart and brings down healing therefrom to lovers upon earth?" And now, as happens to all those who are captives of a crown, Nillywill learned that she must wed with one of her own rank who was a stranger to her save for his name and his renown as the lord of a neighbouring country; there was no help for her, since she was a princess, but she must wed according to the claims of her station. When she heard of it, she went at nightfall to her pansies, all lying in their beds, and told them of her grief. They, awakened by her tears, lifted up their grave eyes and looked at her. "Do you not hear?" said they. "Hear what?" asked the Princess. "We are low in the ground: we hear!" said the pansies. "Stoop down your head and listen!" The Princess let her head go to the ground; and "click, click," she heard wooden shoes coming along the road. She ran to the gate, and there was Hands, tall and lean, dressed as a poor peasant, with a bundle tied up in a blue cotton handkerchief across his shoulder, and five thousand miles trodden to nothing by the faithful tramping of his old wooden shoes. "Oh, the blue moon, the blue moon!" cried the Princess; and running down the road, she threw herself into his arms. How happy and proud they were of each other! He, because she remembered him and knew him so well by the sight of his face and the sound of his feet after all these years; and she, because he had come all that way in a pair of wooden shoes, just as he was, and had not been afraid that she would be ashamed to know him again. "I am so hungry!" said Hands, when he and Nillywill had done kissing each other. And when Nillywill heard that, she brought him into the palace through the pansies by her own private way; then with her own hands she set food before him, and made him eat. Hands, looking at her, said, "You are quite as beautiful as I thought you would be!" "And you--so are you!" she answered, laughing and clapping her hands. And "Oh, the blue moon," she cried--"surely the blue moon must rise to-night!" Low down in the west the new moon, leaning on its side, rocked and turned softly in its sleep; and there, facing the earth through the cleared night, the blue moon hung like a burning grape against the sky. Like the heart of a sapphire laid open, the air flushed and purpled to a deeper shade. The wind drew in its breath close and hushed, till not a leaf quaked in the boughs; and the sea that lay out west gathered its waves together softly to its heart, and let the heave of its tide fall wholly to slumber. Round-eyed, the stars looked at themselves in the charmed water, while in a luminous azure flood the light of the blue moon flowed abroad. Under the light of many tapers within drawn curtains of tapestry, and feasting her eyes upon the happiness of Hands, the Princess felt the change that had entranced the outer world. "I feel," she said, "I do not know how--as if the palace were standing siege. Come out where we can breathe the fresh air!" The light of the tapers grew ghostly and dim, as, parting the thick hangings of the window, they stepped into the night. "The blue moon!" cried Nillywill to her heart; "oh, Hands, it is the blue moon!" All the world seemed carved out of blue stone; trees with stems dark-veined as marble rose up to give rest to boughs which drooped the altered hues of their foliage like the feathers of peacocks at roost. Jewel within jewel they burned through every shade from blue to onyx. The white blossoms of a cherry-tree had become changed into turquoise, and the tossing spray of a fountain as it drifted and swung was like a column of blue fire. Where a long inlet of sea reached in and touched the feet of the hanging gardens the stars showed like glow-worms, emerald in a floor of amethyst. There was no motion abroad, nor sound: even the voice of the nightingale was stilled, because the passion of his desire had become visible before his eyes. "Once in a blue moon!" said Nilly-will, waiting for her dream to become altogether true. "Let us go now, she said, "where I can put away my crown! To-night has brought you to me, and the blue moon has come for us: let us go!" "Where shall we go?" asked Hands. "As far as we can," cried Nillywill. "Suppose to the blue moon! To-night it seems as if one might tread on water or air. Yonder across the sea, with the stars for stepping-stones, we might get to the blue moon as it sets into the waves." But as they went through the deep alleys of the garden that led down to the shore they came to a sight more wonderful than anything they had yet seen. Before them, facing toward the sea, stood two great reindeer, their high horns reaching to the overhead boughs; and behind them lay a sledge, long and with deep sides like the sides of a ship. All blue they seemed in that strange light. There too, but nearer to hand, was the moon-fay himself waiting--a great figure of lofty stature, clad in furs of blue fox-skin, and with heron's wings fastened above the flaps of his hood; and these lifted themselves and clapped as Hands and the Princess drew near. "Are you coming to the blue moon ?" called the fay, and his voice whistled and shrewed to them like the voice of a wind. Hands-pansy gave back answer stoutly: "Yes, yes, we are coming!" And indeed what better could he say? "But," cried Nillywill, holding back for a moment, "what will the blue moon do for us?" "Once you are there," answered the moon-fay, "you can have your wish and your heart's desire; but only once in a blue moon can you have it. Are you coming?" "We are coming!" cried Nillywill. "Oh, let us make haste!" "Tread softly," whispered the moon-fay, "and stoop well under these boughs, for if anything awakes to behold the blue moon, the memory of it can never die. On earth only the nightingale of all living things has beheld a blue moon; and the triumph and pain of that memory wakens him ever since to sing all night long. Tread softly, lest others waken and learn to cry after us; for we in the blue moon have our sleep troubled by those who cry for a blue moon to return." He looked towards Nillywill, and smiled with friendly eyes. "Come!" he said again, and all at once they had leapt upon the sledge, and the reindeer were running fast down toward the sea. The blue moon was resting with its lower rim upon the waters. At that sight, before they were clear of the avenues of the garden, one of the reindeer tossed up his great branching horns and snorted aloud for joy. With a soft stir in the thick boughs overhead, a bird with a great trail of feathers moved upon its perch. The sledge, gliding from land, passed out over the smoothed waters, running swiftly as upon ice; and the reflection of the stars shone up like glow-worms as Nillywill and Hands-pansy, in the moon-fay's company, sped away along its bright surface. The still air whistled through the reindeers' horns; so fast they went that the trees and the hanging gardens and the palace walls melted away from view like wreaths of smoke. Sky and sea became one magic sapphire drawing them in towards the centre of its life, to the heart of the blue moon itself. When the blue moon had set below the sea, then far behind upon the land they had left the leaves rustled and drew themselves sharply together, shuddering to get rid of the stony stillness, and the magic hues in which they had been dyed; and again the nightingale broke out into passionate triumph and complaint. Then also from the bough which the reindeer had brushed with its horns a peacock threw back its head and cried in harsh lamentation, having no sweet voice wherewith to acclaim its prize. And so ever since it cries, as it goes up into the boughs to roost, because it shares with the nightingale its grief for the memory of departed beauty which never returns to earth save once in a blue moon. But Nillywill and Hands-pansy, living together in the blue moon, look back upon the world, if now and then they choose to remember, without any longing for it or sorrow. colour colour colours, growings colours harbour dumfounded and terrified to utter a word. He and all his apprentices stood round and stared while the demolition of the wall proceeded. Before long he recognised recognised. Where l" kitc to earth, there she found a heron's feather fastened among the strings. Katipah knew who had sent that, and kissed it a thousand times over; nor did she mind for many days afterwards what Bimsha might say, becausc sca,! On the top of Drundle Head, away to the right side, where the track crossed, it was known that the fairies still came and danced by night. But though Toonie went that way every evening on his road home from work, never once had he been able to spy them. So one day he said to the old faggot-maker, "How is it that one gets to see a fairy?" The old man answered, "There are some to whom it comes by nature; but for others three things are needed--a handful of courage, a mouthful of silence, and a capful of moonshine. But if you would be trying it, take care that you don't go wrong more than twice; for with the third time you will fall into the hands of the fairies and be their bondsman. But if you manage to see the fairies, you may ask whatever you like of them." Toonie believed in himself so much that the very next night he took his courage in both hands, filled his cap with moon-shine, shut his mouth, and set out. Just after he had started he passed, as he thought, a priest riding by on a mule. "Good evening to you, Toonie," called the priest. "Good evening, your reverence," cried Toonie, and flourished off his cap, so that out fell his capful of moonshine. And though he went on all the way up over the top of Drundle Head, never a fairy did he spy; for he forgot that, in passing what he supposed to be the priest, he had let go both his mouthful of silence and his capful of moonshine. The next night, when he was coming to the ascent of the hill, he saw a little elderly man wandering uncertainly over the ground ahead of him; and he too seemed to have his hands full of courage and his cap full of moonshine. As Toonie drew near, the other turned about and said to him, "Can you tell me, neighbour, if this be the way to the fairies?" "Why, you fool," cried Toonie, "a moment ago it was! But now you have gone and let go your mouthful of silence!" "To be sure, to be sure--so I have!" answered the old man sadly; and turning about, he disappeared among the bushes. As for Toonie, he went on right over the top of Drundle Head, keeping his eyes well to the right; but never a fairy did he see. For he too had on the way let go his mouthful of silence. Toonie, when his second failure came home to him, was quite vexed with himself for his folly and mismanagement. So that it should not happen again, he got his wife to tie on his cap of moonshine so firmly that it could not come off, and to gag up his mouth so that no word could come out of it. And once more taking his courage in both hands, he set out. For a long way he went and nothing happened, so he was in good hopes of getting the desire of his eyes before the night was over; and, clenching his fists tight upon his courage, he pressed on. He had nearly reached to the top of Drundle Head, when up from the ground sprang the same little elderly man of the evening before, and began beating him across the face with a hazel wand. And at that Toonie threw up both hands and let go his courage, and turned and tried to run down the hill. When her husband did not return, Toonie's wife became a kind of a widow. People were very kind to her, and told her that Toonie was not dead--that he had only fallen into the hands of thegood-folk; but all day long she sat and cried, "I fastened on his cap of moonshine, and I tied up his tongue; and for all that he has gone away and left me!" And so she cried until her child was born and named Little Toonie in memory of his lost father. After a while people, looking at him, began to shake their heads; for as he grew older it became apparent that his tongue was tied, seeing that he remained quite dumb in spite of all that was done to teach him; and his head was full of moonshine, so that he could understand nothing clearly by day--only as night came on his wits gathered, and he seemed to find a meaning for things. And some said it was his mother's fault, and some that it was his father's, and some that he was a changeling sent by the fairies, and that the real child had been taken to share his father's bondage. But which of these things was true Little Toonie himself had no idea. After a time Little Toonie began to grow big, as is the way with children, and at last he became bigger than ever old Toonie had been. But folk still called him Little Toonie, because his head was so full of moonshine; and his mother, finding he was no good to her, sold him to the farmer, by whom, since he had no wits for anything better, he was set to pull at waggon and plough just as if he were a cart-horse; and, indeed, he was almost as strong as one. To make him work, carter and ploughman used to crack their whips over his back; and Little Toonie took it as the most natural thing in the world, because his brain was full of moonshine, so that he understood nothing clearly by day. But at night he would lie in his stable among the horses, and wonder about the moonlight that stretched wide over all the world and lay free on the bare tops of the hills; and he thought--would it not be good to be there all alone, with the moonbeams laying their white hands down on his head? And so it came that one night, finding the door of his stable unlocked, he ran out into the open world a free man. A soft wind breathed at large, and swung slowly in the black-silver treetops. Over them Little Toonie could see the quiet slopes of Drundle Head, asleep in the moonlight. Before long, following the lead of his eyes, he had come to the bottom of the ascent. There before him went walking a little shrivelled elderly man, looking to right and left as if uncertain of the road. As Little Toonie drew near, the other one turned and spoke. "Can you tell me," said he, "if this be the way to the fairies?" Little Toonie had no tongue to give an answer; so, looking at his questioner, he wagged his head and went on. Quickening his pace, the old man came alongside and began peering; then he smiled to himself, and after a bit spoke out. "So you have lost your cap, neighbour? Then you will never be able to find the fairies." For he did not know that Little Toonie, who wore no cap on his head, carried his capful of moonshine safe underneath his skull, where it had been since the hour of his birth. The little elderly man slipped from his side, disappearing suddenly among the bushes, and Toonie went on alone. So presently he was more than halfway up the ascent, and could see along the foot-track of the thicket the silver moonlight lying out over the open ahead. He had nearly reached to the top of the hill, when up from the ground sprang the little elderly man, and began beating him across the face with a hazel wand. Toonie thought surely this must be some carter or ploughman beating him to make him go faster; so he made haste to get on and be rid of the blows. Then, all of a sudden, the little elderly man threw away his hazel stick, and fell down, clutching at Little Toonie's ankles, whining and praying him not to go on. "Now that I have failed to keep you from coming," he cried, "my masters will put me to death for it! I am a dead man, I tell you, if you go another step!" Toonie could not understand what the old fellow meant, and he could not speak to him. But the poor creature clung to his feet, holding them to prevent him from taking another step; so Toonie just stooped down, and (for he was so little and light) picked him up by the scruff, and carried him by his waistband, so that his arms and legs trailed together along the ground. In the open moonlight ahead little people were all agog; bright dewdrops were shivering down like rain, where flying feet alighted--shot from bent grass- blades like arrows from a drawn bow. Tight, panting little bodies, of which one could count the ribs, and faces flushed with fiery green blood, sprang everywhere. But at Toonie's coming one cried up shriller than a bat; and at once rippling burrows went this way and that in the long grass, and stillness followed after. The poor, dangling old man, whom Toonie was still carrying, wriggled and whined miserably, crying, "Come back, masters, for it is no use--this one sees you! He has got past me and all my poor skill to stop him. Set me free, for you see I am too old to keep the door for you any longer!" Out buzzed the fairies, hot and angry as a swarm of bees. They came and fastened upon the unhappy old man, and began pulling him. "To the ant-hills!" they cried; "off with him to the ant-hills!" But when they found that Toonie still held him, quickly they all let go. One fairy, standing out from the rest, pulled off his cap and bowed low. "What is your will, master mortal?" he inquired; "for until you have taken your wish and gone, we are all slaves at your bidding." They all cringed round him, the cruel little people; but he answered nothing. The moonbeams came thick, laying their slender white palms graciously upon Toonie's head; and he, looking up, opened his mouth for a laugh that gave no sound. "Ah, so! That is why--he is a mute!" cried the fairies. Quickly one dipped his cap along the grass and brought it filled with dew. He sprang up, and poured it upon Toonie's tongue; and as the fairy dew touched it, "Now speak!" they all cried in chorus, and fawned and cringed, waiting for him to give them the word. Cudgelling his brain for what it all meant, he said, "Tell me first what wish I may have." "Whatever you like to ask," said they, "for you have become one of our free men. Tell us your name?" "I am called Little Toonie," said he, "the son of old Toonie that was lost." "Why, as I live and remember," cried the little elderly man, "old Toonie was me!" Then he threw himself grovelling at his son's feet, and began crying: "Oh, be quick and take me away! Make them give me up to you: ask to have me! I am your poor, loving old father whom you never saw; all these years have I been looking and longing for you! Now take me away, for they are a proud, cruel people, as spiteful as they are small; and my back has been broken twenty years in their bondage." The fairies began to look blue, for they hate nothing so much as to give up one whom they have once held captive. "We can give you gold," said they, "or precious stones, or the root of long living, or the waters of happiness, or the sap of youth, or the seed of plenty, or the blossom of beauty. Choose any of these, and we can give it you." The old man again caught hold of his son's feet. "Don't choose these," he whimpered, "choose me!" So because he had a capful of moonshine in his head, and because the moonbeams were laying their white hands on his hair, he chose the weak, shrivelled old man, who crouched and clung to him, imploring not to be let go. The fairies, for spite and anger, bestowed every one a parting pinch on their tumble-down old bondsman; then they handed him to his son, and swung back with careless light hearts to their revels. As father and son went down the hill together, the old man whistled and piped like a bird. "Why, why!" he said, "you are a lad of strength and inches: with you to work and look after me, I can keep on to a merry old age! Ay, ay, I have had long to wait for it; but wisdom is justified in her children." In the hollow heart of an old tree a Jackdaw and his wife had made themselves a nest. As soon as the mother of his eggs had finished laying, she sat waiting patiently for something to come of it. One by one five mouths poked out of the shells, demanding to be fed; so for weeks the happy couple had to be continually in two places at once searching for food to satisfy them. Presently the wings of the young ones grew strong; they could begin to fly about; and the parents found time for a return to pleasuring and curiosity-hunting. They began gathering in a wise assortment of broken glass and chips of platter to grace the corners of their dwelling. All but the youngest Jackdaw were enchanted with their unutterable beauty and value; they were never tired of quarrelling over the possession and arrangement of them. "But what are they for?" asked the youngest, a perverse bird who grouped himself apart from the rest, and took no share in their daily squabblings. The mother-bird said: "They are beautiful, and what God intended for us: therefore they must be true. We may not see the use of them yet, but no doubt some day they will come true." The little Jackdaw said: "Their corners scratch me when I want to go to sleep; they are far worse than crumbs in the bed. All the other birds do without them--why should not we?" "That is what distinguishes us from the other birds!" replied the Janedaw, and thanked her stars that it was so. "I wish we could sing!" sighed the littlest young Jackdaw. "Babble, babble!" replied his mother angrily. And then, as it was dinner-time, he forgot his grief as they all said grace, and fell-to. One evening the old Jackdaw came home very late, carrying something that burned bright and green, like an evening star; all the nest shone where he set it down. "What do you think of that for a discovery?" he said to the Janedaw. "Think?" she said; "I can't. Some of it looks good to eat; but that fire-patch at the end would burn one's inside out." Presently the Jackdaw family settled itself down to sleep; only the youngest one sat up and watched. Now he had seen something beautiful. Was it going to come true? Its light was like the song of the nightingale in the leaves overhead: it glowed, and throbbed, and grew strong, flooding the whole place where it lay. Soon, in the silence, he heard a little wail of grief: "Why have they carried me away here," sighed the glow-worm, "out of the tender grass that loves the ground?" The littlest Jackdaw listened with all his heart. Now something at last was going to become true, without scratching his legs and making him feel as though crumbs were in his bed. A little winged thing came flying down to the green light, and two voices began crying together--the glow-worm and its mate. "They have carried you away?" "They have carried me away; up here I shall die!" "I am too weak to lift you," said the one with wings; "you will stay here, and you will die!" Then they cried yet more. "It seems to me," thought the Jackdaw, "that as soon as the beautiful becomes true, God does not intend it to be for us." He got up softly from among his brothers. "I will carry you down," he said. And without more ado, he picked it up and carried it down out of the nest, and laid it in the long grass at the foot of the tree. Overhead the nightingale sang, and the full moon shone; its rays struck down on the little Jackdaw's head. For a bird that is not a nightingale to wake up and find its head unprotected under the rays of a full moon is serious: there and then he became moon-struck. He went back into bed; but he was no longer the same little Jackdaw. "Oh, I wish I could sing!" he thought; and not for hours could he get to sleep. In the morning, when the family woke up, the beautiful and the true was gone. The father Jackdaw thought he nmst have swallowed it in his sleep. "If you did," said his wife "there'll be a smell of burnt feathers before long!" But the littlest Jackdaw said, "It came true, and went away, because it was never intended for us." Now some days after this the old Jack-daw again came carrying something that shone like an evening star--a little spike of gold with a burning emerald set in the end of it. "And what do you think of that?" said he to his wife. "I daren't come near it," she answered, "for fear it should burn me!" That night the little Jackdaw lay awake, while all the others slept, waiting to hear the green stone break out into sorrow, and to see if its winged mate would come seeking it. But after hours had gone, and nothing stirred or spoke, he slipped softly out of the nest, and went down to search for the poor little winged mate who must surely be about somewhere. And now, truly, among the grasses and flowers he heard something sobbing and sighing; a little winged thing darted into sight and out again, searching the ground like a dragon-fly at quest. And all the time, amid the darting and humming of its wings, came sobbing and wringing of hands. The young Jackdaw called: "Little wings, what have you lost? Is it not a spike with a green light at the end of it?" "My wand, my wand!" cried the fairy, beside herself with grief. "Just about sunset I was asleep in an empty wren's nest, and when I woke up my wand was gone!" Then the little Jackdaw, being moon-struck, and not knowing the value of things, flew up to the nest and brought back the fairy her wand. "Oh!" she cried, "you have saved my life!" And she thanked the Jackdaw till he grew quite modest and shy. "What is it for? What can you do with it?" he asked. "With this," she answered, "I can make anything beautiful come true! I can give you whatever you ask; you have but to ask, and you shall have." Then the little Jackdaw, being moon-struck, and not knowing the value of things, said, "Oh, if I could only sing like a nightingale!" "You can!" said the fairy, waving her wand but once; and immediately some-thing like a melodious sneeze flew into his head and set it shaking. "Chiou! chiou! True-true-true-true! Jug! jug! Oh, beautiful! beautiful!" His beak went dabbling in the sweet sound, rippling it this way and that, spraying it abroad out of his blissful heart as a jewel throws out its fires. The fairy was gone; but the little Jackdaw sprang up into the high elm, and sang on endlessly through the whole night. At dawn he stopped, and looking down, there he saw the family getting ready for breakfast, and wondering what had become of him. Just as they were saying grace he flew in, his little heart beating with joy over his new-found treasure. What a jewel of a voice he had: better than all the pieces of glass and chips of platter lying down there in the nest! As soon as the parent-birds had finished grace, he lifted his voice and thanked God that the thing he had wished for had become true. None of them understood what he said, but they paid him plenty of attention. All his brothers and sisters put up their heads and giggled, as the young do when one of their number misbehaves. "Don't make that noise!" said his mother; "it's not decent!" "It's low!" said the father-bird. The littlest young Jackdaw was overwhelmed with astonishment. When he tried to explain, his unseemly melodies led to his immediate expulsion from the family circle. Such noises, he was told, could only be made in private; when he had quite got over them he might come back,--but not until. He never got over them; so he never came back. For a few days he hid himself in different trees of the garden, and sang the praises of sorrow; but his family, though they comprehended him not, recognised his note, and came searching him with beak and claw, and drove him out so as not to have him near them committing such scandalous noises to the ears of the public. "He lies in his throat!" said the old Jackdaw. "Everything he says he garbles. If he is our son he must have been hatched on the wrong side of the nest!" After that, wherever he went, all the birds jeered at and persecuted him. Even the nightingales would not listen to his brotherly voice. They made fun of his black coat, and called him a Nonconformist without a conscience. "All this has come about," thought he, "because God never meant anything beautiful to come true." One day a man who saw him and heard him singing, caught him, and took him round the world in a cage for show. The value of him was discovered. Great crowds came to see the little Jackdaw, and to hear him sing. He was described now as the "Amphabulous Philomel, or the Mongrel-Minstrel"; but it gave him no joy. Before long he had become what we call tame--that is to say, his wings had been clipped; he was allowed out of his cage, because he could no longer fly away, and he sang when he was told, because he was whipped if he did not. One day there was a great crowd round the travelling booth where he was on view: the showman had a new wonder which he was about to show to the people. He took the little Jackdaw out of his cage, and set him to perch upon his shoulder, while he busied himself over something which he was taking carefully out of ever so many boxes and coverings. The Jackdaw's sad eye became attracted by a splendid scarf-pin that the showman wore--a gold pin set with a tiny emerald that burned like fire. The bird thought, "Now if only the beautiful could become true!" And now the showman began holding up a small glass bottle for the crowd to stare into. The people were pushing this way and that to see what might be there. At the bottom sat the little fairy, without her wand, weeping and beating her hands on the glass. The showman was so proud he grew red in the face, and ran shouting up and down the plank, shaking and turning the bottle upside down now and then, so as to make the cabined fairy use her wings, and buzz like a fly against the glass. The Jackdaw waggled unsteadily at his perch on the man's shoulder. "Look at him!" laughed some one in the crowd, "he's going to steal his master's scarf-pin." "Ho, ho, ho!" shouted the showman. "See this bird now! See the marvellous mongrel nature of the beast! Who tells me he's only a nightingale painted black?" The people laughed the more at that, for there was a fellow in the crowd looking sheepish. The Jackdaw had drawn out the scarf-pin, and held it gravely in its beak, looking sideways with cunning eyes. He was wishing hard. All the crowd laughed again. Suddenly the showman's hand gave a jerk, the bottle slipped from his hold and fell, shivering itself upon the ground. There was a buzz of wings--the fairy had escaped. "The beautiful is coming true," thought the Jackdaw, as he yielded to the fairy her wand, and found, suddenly, that his wings were not clipped after all. "What more can I do for you?" asked the fairy, as they flew away together. "You gave me back my wand; I have given you back your wings." "I will not ask anything," said the little Jackdaw; "what God intends will come true." "Let me take you up to the moon," said the fairy. "All the Jackdaws up there sing like nightingales." "Why is that?" asked the little Jackdaw. " Because they are all moon-struck," she answered. "And what is it to be moon-struck?" he asked. "Surely you should know, if any one!" laughed the fairy. "To see things beautifully, and not as they are. On the moon you will be able to do that without any difficulty." "Ah," said the little Jackdaw, "now I know at last that the beautiful is going to come true!" Duke Jarl had found a good roost for himself when his long work of expelling the invader was ended. Seawards and below the town, in the mouth of the river, stood a rock, thrusting out like a great tusk ready to rip up any armed vessel that sought passage that way. On the top of this he had built himself a castle, and its roots went deep, deep down into the solid stone. No man knew how deep the deepest of the foundations went; but wherever they were, just there was old Duke Jarl's sleeping-chamber. Thither he had gone to sleep when the world no longer needed him; and he had not yet returned. That was three hundred years ago, and still the solid rock vaulted the old warrior's slumber; and over his head men talked of him, and told how he was reserving the strength of his old age till his country should again call for him. The call seemed to come now; for his descendant, little Duke Jarl the Ninth, was but a child; and being in no fear of him, the old foe had returned, and the castle stood besieged. Also, farther than the eye could see from the topmost tower, the land lay all overrun, its richness laid waste by armed bands who gathered in its harvest by the sword, and the town itself lay under tribute; from the tower one could see the busy quays, and the enemy loading his ships with rich merchandise. Sent up there to play in safety, little Duke Jarl could not keep his red head from peering over the parapet. He began making fierce faces at the enemy--he was still too young to fight: and quick a grey goose-shaft came and sang its shrill song at his ear. So close had it gone that a little of the ducal blood trickled out over his collar. His face worked with rage; leaning far out over the barrier, he began shouting, "I will tell Duke Jarl of you!" till an attendant ran up and snatched him away from danger. Things were going badly: the castle was cut off from the land, and on the seaward side the foe had built themselves a great mole within which their war-ships could ride at anchor safe from the reach of storm. Thus there was no way left by which help or provender could come in. Little Duke Jarl saw men round him growing more gaunt and thin day by day, but he did not understand why till he chanced once upon a soldier gnawing a foul bone for the stray bits of meat that clung to it; then he learned that all in the castle except himself had been put upon quarter-rations, though every day there was more and more fighting work to be done. So that day when the usual white bread and savouries were brought to him, he flung them all downstairs, telling the cook that the day he really became Duke he would have his head off if he ever dared to send him anything again but the common fare. Hearing of it, the old Chief Constable picked up little Master Ninth Duke between finger and thumb, and laughed, holding him in the air. "With you alive," said he, "we shall not have to wake Duke Jarl after all!" The little Duke asked when he would let him have a sword; and the Constable clapped his cheeks and ran back cheerfully at a call from the palisades. But others carried heavy looks, thinking, "Long before his fair promise can come to anything our larders will be empty and our walls gone!" It was no great time after this that the Duke's Constable was the only man who saw reason in holding out. That became known all through the castle, and the cook, honest fellow, brought up little Jarl's dinner one day with tears in his eyes. He set down his load of dainties. "It is no use!" said he, "you may as well eat to-day, since to-morrow we give up the castle." "Who dares to say 'we'?" cried little Duke Jarl, springing to his feet. "All but the Constable," said the cook; "even now they are in the council-hall, trying to make him see reason. Whether or no, they will not let him hold on." Little Jarl found the doors of the great hall barred to the thunderings of his small fist: for, in truth, these men could not bear to look upon one who had in his veins the blood of old Duke Jarl, when they were about to give up his stronghold to the enemy. So little Jarl made his way up to the bowery, where was a minstrel's window looking down into the hall. Sticking out his head so that he might see down to where the council was sitting, "If you give up the castle, I will tell Duke Jarl!" he cried. Hearing his young master's voice, the Constable raised his eyes; but not able to see him for tears in them, called out: "Tell him quick, for here it is all against one! Only for one day more have they promised to follow my bidding, and keep the carrion crows from coming to Jarl's nest." And even as he spoke came the renewed cry of attack, and the answering shout of" Jarl, Jarl!" from the defenders upon the walls. Then all leapt up, over-turning the council-board, and ran out to the battlements to carry on with what courage was left to them a hopeless contest for one more day. Little Duke Jarl remained like a beating heart in the great empty keep. He ran wildly from room to room, calling in rage and desperation on Old Jarl to return and fight. From roof to basement he ran, commanding the spirit of his ancestor to appear, till at last he found himself in the deepest cellars of all. Down there he could hear but faintly the sound of the fighting; yet it seemed to him that through the stone he could hear the slow booming of the sea, and as he went deeper into the castle's foundations the louder had grown its note. "Does the sea come in all the way under the castle?" he wondered. "Oh that it would sap the foundations and sink castle and all, rather than let them give up old Jarl's stronghold to his enemies!" All was quite dark here, where the castle stood embedded; but now and then little Duke Jarl could feel a puff of wind on his face, and presently he was noticing how it came, as if timed to the booming of the sea underneath: whenever came the sound of a breaking wave, with it came a draught of air. He wondered if, so low down, there might not be some secret opening to the shore. Groping in the direction of the gusts, his feet came upon stairs. So low and narrow was the entrance, he had to turn sideways and stoop; but when he had burrowed through a thickness of wall he was able to stand upright; and again he found stairs leading somewhere. Down, these led down. He had never been so low before. And what a storm there must be outside! Against these walls the thunders of: the sea grew so loud he could no longer hear the tramp of his own feet descending. And now the wind came at him in great gusts; first came the great boom of the sea, and then a blast of air. The way twisted and circled, making his head giddy for a fall; his feet slipped on the steepness and slime of the descent, and at each turn the sound grew more appalling, and the driving force of the wind more and more like the stroke of a man's fist. Presently the shock of it threw him from his standing, so that he had to lie down and slide feet foremost, clinging with his eyelids and nails to break the violence of his descent. And now the air was so full of thunder that his teeth shook in their sockets, and his bones jarred in his flesh. The darkness growled and roared;the wind kept lifting him backwards--the force of it seemed almost to flay the skin off: his face; and still he went on, throwing his full weight against the air ahead. Then for a moment he felt himself letting go altogether: solid walls slipping harshly past him in the darkness, he fell; and came headlong, crashed and bruised, to a standstill. At first his brain was all in a mist; then, raising himself, he saw a dim blue light falling through a low vaulted chamber. At the end of it sat old Jarl, like adamant in slumber. His head was down on his breast, buried in a great burning bush of hair and beard; his hands, gripping the arms of his iron throne, had twisted them like wire; and the weight of his feet where they rested had hollowed a socket in the stone floor for them to sink into. All his hair and his armour shone with a red-and-blue flame; and the light of him struck the vaulting and the floor like the rays of a torch as it burns. Over his head a dark tunnel, bored in the solid rock, reached up a hollow throat seawards. But not by that way came the wind and the sound of the sea; it was old Jarl himself, breathing peacefully in his sleep, waiting for the hour which should call his strength to life. Young Duke Jarl ran swiftly across the chamber, and struck old Jarl's knees, crying, "Wake, Jarl! or the castle will be taken!" But the sleeper did not stir. Then he climbed the iron bars of the Duke's chair, and reaching high, caught hold of the red beard. "Forefather!" he cried, "wake, or the castle will be betrayed!" But still old Duke Jarl snored a drowsy hurricane. Then little Jarl sprang upon his knee, and seizing him by the head, pulled to move its dead weight, and finding he could not, struck him full on the mouth, crying, "Jarl, Jarl, old thunderbolt! wake, or you will betray the castle!" At that old Jarl hitched himself in his seat, and "Humph!" cried he, drawing in a deep breath. In rushed the wind whistling from the sea, and down it rushed whistling from the way by which little Jarl had come; like the wings of cranes flying homewards in spring, so it whistled when old Jarl drew in his breath. Off his knee dropped little Ninth Jarl, buffeted speechless to earth. And old Jarl, letting go one breath, settled himself back to slumber.!" They had reason enough to fear; for suddenly upon their ships-of-war there crashed, as though out of the bowels of the earth, a black wind and sandblast; and coming, it took the reefed sails and rigging, and snapped the masts and broke every vessel from its moorings, and drove all to wreck and ruin against the great mole that had bccn built to shelter them. And away inland, beyond the palisades and under the entrenched camp of the besiegers, the ground pitched and rocked, so that every tent fell grovelling; and whenever the ground gaped, captains and men-at-arms were swallowed down in detachments. Hardly had the call of old Jarl's war-horn ceased, before the Constable commanded the castle gates to be thrown open, and out he came leading a gaunt and hungry band of Jarl-folk warriors; for over in the enemy's camp they had scent of a hot supper which must be cooked and eaten before dawn. And in a little while, when the cooking was at its height, young Duke Jarl stuck his red head out over the battlements, and laughed. So this has told how old Duke Jarl once turned and talked in his sleep; but to tell of the real awakening of old Jarl would be quite another story. One day, as the king's huntsman was riding in the forest, he came to a small pool. Fallen leaves covering its surface had given it the colour of blood, and knee-deep in their midst stood a milk-white doe drinking. The beauty of the doe set fire to the huntsman's soul; he took an arrow and aimed well at the wild heart of the creature. But as he was loosing the string the branch of a tree overhanging the pool struck him across the face, and caught hold of him by the hair; and arrow and doe vanished away together into the depths of the forest. Never until now, since he entered the king's service, had the huntsman missed his aim. The thought of the white doe living after he had willed its death inflamed him with rage; he could not rest till he had brought hounds on the trail, determined to follow until it had surrendered to him its life. All day, while he hunted, the woods stayed breathless, as if to watch; not a blade moved, not a leaf fell. About noon a red deer crossed his path; but he paid no heed, keeping his hounds only to the white doe's trail. At sunset a fallow deer came to disturb the scent, and through the twilight, as it deepened, a grey wolf ran in and out of the underwood. When night came down, his hounds fled from his call, following through tangled thickets a huge black boar with crescent tusks. So he found himself alone, with his horse so weary that it could scarcely move. But still, though the moon was slow in its rising, the fever of the chase burned in the huntsman's veins, and caused him to press on. For now he found himself at the rocky entrance of a ravine whence no way led; and the white doe being still before him, he made sure that he would get her at last. So when his horse fell, too tired to rise again, he dismounted and forced his way on; and soon he saw before him the white doe, labouring up an ascent of sharp crags, while closer and higher the rocks rose and narrowed on every side. Presently she had leapt high upon a boulder that shook and swayed as her feet rested, and ahead the wall of rocks had joined so that there was nowhere farther that she might go. Then the huntsman notched an arrow, and drew with full strength, and let it go. Fast and straight it went, and the wind screamed in the red feathers as they flew; but faster the doe overleapt his aim, and, spurning the stone beneath, down the rough-bouldered gully sent it thundering, shivering to fragments as it fell. Scarcely might the huntsman escape death as the great mass swept past: but when the danger was over he looked ahead, and saw plainly, where the stone had once stood, a narrow opening in the rock, and a clear gleam of moonlight beyond. That way he went, and passing through, came upon a green field, as full of flowers as a garden, duskily shining now, and with dark shadows in all its folds. Round it in a great circle the rocks made a high wall, so high that along their crest forest-trees as they clung to look over seemed but as low-growing thickets against the sky. The huntsman's feet stumbled in shadow and trod through thick grass into a quick-flowing streamlet that ran through the narrow way by which he had entered. He threw himself down into its cool bed, and drank till he could drink no more. When he rose he saw, a little way off, a small dwelling-house of rough stone, moss-covered and cosy, with a roof of wattles which had taken root and pushed small shoots and clusters of grey leaves through their weaving. Nature, and not man, seemed there to have been building herself an abode. Before the doorway ran the stream, a track of white mist showing where it wound over the meadow; and by its edge a beautiful maiden sat, and was washing her milk-white feet and arms in the wrinkling eddies. To the huntsman she became all at once the most beautiful thing that the world contained; all the spirit of the chase seemed to be in her blood, and each little movement of her feet made his heart jump for joy. "I have looked for you all my life!" thought he, as he halted and gazed, not daring to speak lest the lovely vision should vanish, and the memory of it mock him for ever. The beautiful maiden looked up from her washing. "Why have you come here?" said she. The huntsman answered her as he believed to be the truth, "I have come because I love you!" "No," she said, "you came because you wanted to kill the white doe. If you wish to kill her, it is not likely that you can love me." "I do not wish to kill the white doe!" cried the huntsman; "I had not seen you when I wished that. If you do not believe that I love you, take my bow and shoot me to the heart; for I will never go away from you now." At his word she took one of the arrows, looking curiously at the red feathers, and to test the sharp point she pressed it against her breast. "Have a care!" cried the hunter, snatching it back. He drew his breath sharply and stared. "It is strange," he declared; "a moment ago I almost thought that I saw the white doe." "If you stay here to-night," said the maiden, "about midnight you will see the white doe go by. Take this arrow, and have your bow ready, and watch! And if to-morrow, when I return, the arrow is still unused in your hand, I will believe you when you say that you love me. And you have only to ask, and I will do all that you desire." Then she gave the huntsman food and drink and a bed of ferns upon which to rest. "Sleep or wake," said she as she parted from him; "if truly you have no wish to kill the white doe, why should you wake? Sleep!" "I do not wish to kill the white doe," said the huntsman. Yet he could not sleep: the memory of the one wild creature which had escaped him stung his blood. He looked at the arrow which he held ready, and grew thirsty at the sight of it. "If I see, I must shoot!" cried his hunter's heart. "If I see, I must not shoot!" cried his soul, smitten with love for the beautiful maiden, and remembering her word. "Yet, if I see, I know I must shoot--so shall I lose all!" he cried as midnight approached, and the fever of long waiting remained unassuaged. Then with a sudden will he drew out his hunting-knife, and scored the palms of his two hands so deeply that he could no longer hold his bow or draw the arrow upon the string. "Oh, fair one, I have kept my word to you!" he cried as midnight came. "The bow and the arrow are both ready." Looking forth from the threshold by which he lay, he saw pale moonlight and mist making a white haze together on the outer air. The white doe ran by, a body of silver; like quicksilver she ran. And the huntsman, the passion to slay rousing his blood, caught up arrow and bow, and tried in vain with his maimed hands to notch the shaft upon the string. The beautiful creature leapt lightly by, between the curtains of moonbeam and mist; and as she went she sprang this way and that across the narrow streamlet, till the pale shadows hid her altogether from his sight. "Ah! ah!" cried the huntsman, "I would have given all my life to be able to shoot then! I am the most miserable man alive; but to-morrow I will be the happiest. What a thing is love, that it has known how to conquer in me even my hunter's blood!" In the morning the beautiful maiden returned; she came sadly. "I gave you my word," said she: "here I am. If you have the arrow still with you as it was last night, I will be your wife, because you have done what never huntsman before was able to do--not to shoot at the white doe when it went by." The huntsman showed her the unused arrow; her beauty made him altogether happy. He caught her in his arms, and kissed her till the sun grew high. Then she brought food and set it before him; and taking his hand, "I am your wife," said she, "and with all my heart my will is to serve you faithfully. Only, if you value your happiness, do not shoot ever at the white doe." Then she saw that there was blood on his hand, and her face grew troubled. She saw how the other hand also was wounded. "How came this?" she asked; "dear husband, you were not so hurt yesterday." And the huntsman answered, "I did it for fear lest in the night I should fail, and shoot at the white doe when it came." Hearing that, his wife trembled and grew white. "You have tricked us both," she said, "and have not truly mastered your desire. Now, if you do not promise me on your life and your soul, or whatever is dearer, never to shoot at a white doe, sorrow will surely come of it. Promise me, and you shall certainly be happy!" So the huntsman promised faithfully, saying, "On your life, which is dearer to me than my own, I give you my word to keep that it shall be so." Then she kissed him, and bound up his wounds with healing herbs; and to look at her all that day, and for many days after, was better to him than all the hunting the king's forests could provide. For a whole year they lived together in perfect happiness, and two children came to bless their union--a boy and a girl born at the same hour. When they were but a month old, they could run; and to see them leaping and playing before the door of their home made the huntsman's heart jump for joy. "They are forest-born, and they come of a hunter's blood; that is why they run so early, and have such limbs," said he. "Yes," answered his wife, "that is partly why. When they grow older they will run so fast--do not mistake them for deer if ever you go hunting." No sooner had she said the word than the memory of it, which had slept for a whole year, stirred his blood. The scent of the forest blew up through the rocky ravine, which he had never repassed since the day when he entered, and he laid his hands thoughtfully on the weapons he no longer used. Such restlessness took hold of him all that day that at night he slept ill, and, waking, found himself alone with no wife at his side. Gazing about the room, he saw that the cradle also was empty. "Why," he wondered, "have they gone out together in the middle of the night?" Yet he gave it little more thought, and turning over, fell into a troubled sleep, and dreamed of hunting and of the white doe that he had seen a year before stooping to drink among the red leaves that covered the forest pool. In the morning his wife was by his side, and the little ones lay asleep upon their crib. "Where were you," he asked, "last night? I woke, and you were not here." His wife looked at him tenderly, and sighed. "You should shut your eyes better," said she. "I went out to see the white doe, and the little ones came also. Once a year I see her; it is a thing I must not miss." The ficrce. Far curiotls mon-strous colne. Once Once wonmn. ." -- End -- End of The Project Gutenberg Etext of The Blue Moon, by Laurence Housman

I just finished reading Julian Betts’s essay “The Economic Theory of School Choice” in his (excellent and remarkably inexpensive) edited collection Getting Choice Right. For the most part I don’t expect to find really new ideas about school choice in what I read, so it was a thrill to find something I hadn’t encountered before. The contributors all assume (correctly in my view) that school choice is an inevitable feature of the education system, so the issue is how to get it right—in other words, how to make it as efficient and equitable as possible (self-styled opponents of school choice tend to support the de facto status quo, a school choice system riddled with inefficiencies and inequities). The most obvious barrier to a school choice being efficient and to it being equitable is the fact that in a choice system schools get to choose students, leading, one presumes, to a concentration of advantaged students into popular schools. Defenders of choice usually offer three solutions to this problem; lotteries (preventing schools from choosing); quotas (allowing them to choose but limiting their ability to select for advantage) and weighted student funding (allowing them to choose, but giving them incentives to choose disadvantaged children, and compensating schools which get landed with high concentrations of disadvantage). (I suggest a combination of these in my proposal at the end of School Choice and Social Justice). So what’s new in Betts’s paper? He suggests a fourth solution, adapted from energy and communications deregulation, which incidentally deals with a difficulty in the third solution. The problem with weighted student funding is figuring out how to set the weights—the idea is that a central planner decides how to compensate for disadvantage, but the truth is that no-one really knows how much weight to give (the proposals are mostly off-the-top-of-our-heads).. There are numerous pitfalls in the proposal, including the incentives for administrators to mislabel kids, and for sellers of rights to collude, but Betts provides plausible solutions to these. He only proposes it at the district level, but of course it is more attractive as a regional or statewide proposal (imagine the suburban districts around Milwaukee having to buy the rights to admit highly advantaged children from Milwaukee public schools). As a public proposal, I imagine that its dead in the water, but that’s ok—that’s what I was told about admissions lotteries in the UK when I first suggested them in 2000. Anyway, just thought I’d share my enthusiasm about a new idea. { 36 comments } eweininger 07.26.06 at 9:00 am Schools would then be forced to figure out how much they valued the money they were spending relative to the highly advantaged children they wanted. We don’t know what the outcome would be. Granted the current system in the US, in which residential proximity largely determines schooling options, is particularly insane—especially when coupled with a funding system that partly depends on self-imposed taxation. Nevertheless, this makes me a bit queasy. What happens when the officials in charge of “figuring it out” do a lousy job? In theory, I guess the “market” that’s been created will eventually “correct” errors, but there will inevitably be a lag. Also, we would need a new stratum of professional traders, no? Definitely a weird occupation. Daniel 07.26.06 at 9:09 am errrm … would this not leave you with a system in which the schools in the richest areas were able to buy the best students from other schools, while schools in the poorest areas quite literally sold their best students to raise money to cover running costs. Surely in order to work, this tradeable permits system needs the assumption of no other sources of funds for the schools, which seems unworkable to me. Daniel 07.26.06 at 9:14 am (for example, I can easily see a situation in which one of my local schools, with a mixed catchment area, raised money from the middle class parents to buy the right to send all the working class children and asylum seekers to the sink down the road and drag their middle class children here. True, the sink school would get a bundle of cash, but one of the things we know about education is that there isn’t much of a production function linking money and results.) Actually thinking about it (without seeing the paper) I would guess that an implicit assumption of a linear relationship might be doing quite a lot of work. If you have one problem kid already, you aren’t going to want another one. I would be surprised if this market cleared. dearieme 07.26.06 at 9:54 am Why is the quality of a school routinely viewed as a one-dimensional phenomenon? If it does, indeed, approximate well to parents’ current beliefs, must it? It’s not their view of cars, or shops or many other things. Matt 07.26.06 at 10:21 am Is there any idea how large a portion of the resources will be spent on running this sort of thing? Don’t those who are good at this sort of valuation get paid quite a lot to do it, and even then do it only imperfectly? I worry that it would either be done very badly or else be done modestly badly but very expensively. SamChevre 07.26.06 at 11:29 am Wouldn’t an auction system accomplish the same thing more understandably? In other words, let the schools bid on students—the government will pay the lowest tuition someone bids, and private sources can add on if they want to change schools. Actually, Daniel, grouping problem students can be a huge help. If you can get 6 bouncy children in one room, and assign a teacher who deals well with them, they will do fine—but if you put one bouncy student in each of 6 classrooms of 20 students, often neither the bouncy student not anyone else gets taught. mcd 07.26.06 at 11:43 am There should be as little “choice” as possible in schools. And indeed as little to choose between in schools as possible. “Choice” by nature will never be equitable, because equitableness is not what Americans want to “choose”. Parents don’t “choose” the “best” education for children. They choose to get their children much better education than anyone else’s children (when they can afford it), so their children will beat out others’ children in the competition for scarce well-paying slots in the economy. Energy and communications deregulation? So you look forward to Enron as your model of schools? Daniel 07.26.06 at 11:44 am I see what you mean. It strikes me, though, that it could go either way and that the least likely possibility is that the decision maker’s preferences over children will be independent of the hand he has already been dealt. This is highly disanalogous to telecoms minutes or kilowatts, where it makes sense to assume monotonic and independent preferences. I would be really interested to see if someone’s actually checked the conditions under which a market like this might clear, but my Bayesian prior would be that there is no guarantee that there would be any market equilibrium at all and most likely there wouldn’t. leederick 07.26.06 at 11:44 am Why not just auction school places to parents directly? With the money collected going to the schools of children who lost the auction. jim 07.26.06 at 11:59 am I’m sorry, but I don’t understand the mechanics. How do schools get paid? Is there some kind of NFL draft going to happen? where school A buys draft picks from school B? If so, what happens to student choice? If a student picks an undersubscribed school, he/she gets in but if he/she picks an oversubscribed school he/she goes into the draft? That would incentivise advantaged students (who think to game the system) to chose the second or third school in the league table, rather than the first, so they stay out of the draft. Then the “top” school and the sink schools end up dividing the disadvantaged students between them. Daniel 07.26.06 at 12:03 pm As I understand it, in order to allow in a student with parental income above $x, you need a permit. So if you are a rich kid and apply to school A, they can be full in two ways 1) actually physically full and 2) not having any more permits and not willing to buy one in order to let you in. As I say, my guess is that this market doesn’t necessarily clear with the price mechanism alone and ends up having a whole lot of horse-trading going on without much obvious benefit. mkl 07.26.06 at 12:19 pm If this did work, it’s not clear how the funding incentive will affect the school administrators making the choice between a high revenue / disadvantaged student body and a low revenue / advantaged one. If the revenue difference is significant and if the parents of the advantaged kids can’t be hit up for the difference, administrators would be best compensated for running sinks. jim 07.26.06 at 12:36 pm Thank you, Daniel. So, to work through a simple example, suppose there’s two schools, A and B, A much “better” than B, so everyone puts A as their first choice. To fix ideas, suppose each has ten places. There are 20 applicants, ten of whom are rich. So both schools get 5 permits to admit rich kids. A uses its five permits to admit the smartest of the rich kids. It now has five places left. It can admit the five smartest of the poor kids or it can buy permits from school B and admit more rich kids. Why would it spend that money? If it admits the five smartest of the poor kids then it will still start out ahead of school B (it has the five smartest rich kids and the five smartest poor kids; school B gets left with the five dumbest rich kids and the five dumbest poor kids, among whom are likely the disruptive ones) and therefore end up, all other things being equal, ahead of school B and still be regarded as the better school next time through the cycle. Which is all it needs to make sure it’s solidly oversubscribed. So, yes, no trades happen. Andrew 07.26.06 at 12:55 pm This idea is clever, but it won’t work in many places where it’d be most useful. In the South Bay (where I work now) or in East King County (where I used to work) there are small cities such as Cupertino, Los Gatos, Medina and Mercer Island that are much wealthier than their neighbors such as Santa Clara or Renton and have no incentive to play this game. Swapping different levels on income around Seattle (where I used to live) or San Francisco (where I live now) seems more useful, but large cities like this have far fewer school-age children than the suburbs do. These two cities have the lowest children per capita in the US. Essjay 07.26.06 at 1:09 pm Define “highly advantaged student”, please. Essjay 07.26.06 at 1:18 pm Don’t the race academies in the South already do this? They forego public money, in exchange they get to limit admissions to “highly advantaged” (a.k.a. white) children. Barry 07.26.06 at 1:18 pm Note that this idea fails in the perfect world of CT; it hasn’t even been dragged through several years of politics, lobbying, lying, bribery and BS. Imagine what would come out on the other side, and shudder. jim 07.26.06 at 2:32 pm On further thought, if “advantaged” is defined very broadly, so that there are only a few “disadvantaged”, but they’re fairly horrible specimens, then trades can occur. Consider the toy version above (#13), but instead of ten advantaged, ten disadvantaged, make it 18 advantaged and two disadvantaged. Then each school gets permits to admit nine advantaged. If there’s no trades, each school would have to take one disadvantaged student, guaranteed to disrupt classes. So it’s worth it for school A to offer to buy a permit from school B to avoid picking up the disrupter. School B will have to take a disrupter anyway. Enough extra money might enable it to manage both. The way to make such a scheme work is there needs to be no disadvantaged students that are acceptable to the oversubscribed schools. If there are, then the oversubscribed schools can admit them and retain their standing and thus continue being oversubscribed. Schools will pay rather than take disadvantaged students only if disadvantaged really does equate to undesirable. I don’t see this happening. I suspect, if this scheme were to be adopted, large groups would be labelled disadvantaged, which is what’s implied by the use of the term “highly advantaged” after all. All minority children, perhaps, would be labelled disadvantaged, for who can deny the existence of racism? But there are many minority children who can do just fine in school. Better to figure out which ones they are and just admit them rather than give away some of your budget. Ben M 07.26.06 at 4:04 pm Daniel (#11) and subsequent comments seem to assume that the “advantage/disadvantage” boundary has to be defined by statute. However, I don’t see why this needs to be the case—-#10’s mention of a sports draft may be closer to workable. Consider the following procedure: 1) Students submit a ranked set of school preferences. 2) A computer optimization (the sort used for university dorm assignments) randomly sorts students into schools in an attempt at preference-maximizing, but paying no attention whatsoever to income, academics, discipline issues, etc. 3) School officials look at the pool of student they’ve been assigned, look at the pools available in other schools, and bargain amongst themselves, with full discretion to consider income, behavior, academics, sports, etc., and the school’s already-fixed budget. Thus you have auction exchanges like this: CCS: “Dear UrbanBlightAcademy, you were assigned Jessica Topstudent, but we’d like to have her here at CountryClubSchool. Will you accept Eddie Misbehavior and $3000 in exchange?” UBA: “Jeez, we’d need extra teacher’s aides to handle Eddie. Would you do it for $4500/yr?” WWCS: [stepping in] “WellRunCharterSchool has effective discipline in place already, but we need cash. We’ll trade a top-ten-percentile academic for Eddie and $3000/yr.” The initial use of student preferences might serve as an important anti-corruption/anti-sinkhole tool. If a school descends into an academic and disciplinary basket-case—-say, by trading away good students for money, then blowing the money—-next year’s top students will carefully select themselves away from that school. In the next year’s selection lottery, they won’t pick up any trade bait, and their trade income dries up. Similarly, you can imagine that a school could thrive on its ability to spot diamonds in the rough, or suffer due to a racist policy of trading unquestioningly for rich whites. Brett Bellmore 07.26.06 at 4:19 pm I think there’s something just a bit oblivious about saying, “let’s have a system of choice, and how can we rig the incentives so it produces the exact same behavior as we’d command if we didn’t have a system of choice? Just learn to let go; Choice isn’t about producing the outcome YOU desire, it’s about people getting to chose for themselves. nelziq 07.26.06 at 4:44 pm Choice isn’t about producing the outcome YOU desire, it’s about people getting to chose for themselves. Amen. There are two parts to school choice. First is that students get to choose schools so they won’t be forced to attend schools that are incompetant at teaching. But the other aspect is also important. Why should schools be forced to teach students that don’t want to be there, are disruptive, violent, or otherwise problematic? School choice should let kids and their parents choose schools that have teachers who are serious about learning and should also let them choose schools where the students are serious about learning, too. harry b 07.26.06 at 4:47 pm Brett—the problem with “letting people just choose for themselves” is that in actual educational markets the imperfections are such that some people (those whose children have desireable characteristics) get what they want, and others don’t get what they want (they might, sometimes, get what they choose, having chosen not what they wanted but what they thought they could get. Suppose Mr. Smith and Mr. Patel both choose St. Edmunds for their kid, but Lincoln High, being oversubscribed, gets to select which kid it wants to enter the school; Mr. Smith’s kid. They both chose, and one of them got what he wanted, but the other didn’t. Surely, you are not in favour of agents of the state choosing which kid’ll get to attend the better school. Of course, complete privatisation (withdrawal of any government involvement in education whatsoever) is your preferred alternative. Me, I don’t see that as feasible (and would reject it even if I did, for reasons to do with justice, though I know they won’t carry much weight with you!) All the mechanisms I mention in the post are efforts NOT to curtial choice, or to achieve a prescribed outcome, but to render choice more equal (and much more equal than in the status quo that many self-styled opponents of choice defend, one in which the government colludes with the most advantaged parents in giving them a great deal of choice, and deprives less advantaged parents of any effective choice). The rest of you—keep going, this is incredibly interesting to me! Jack 07.26.06 at 5:30 pm Setting up a market like this might allow flexibility but it is still set up to allow schools to maximise their utility. The utility of the school is not of much value and without implausibly strong school institutions is only weakly connected with the interests of students, even those of the future when some kind of equilibrium might have been reached. There is also a problem with spot markets when investment is required if the system prevents commitment. Most markets don’t operate by spot market alone. I’m also not sure about lotteries. They may achieve the objective of denying advantage to the advantaged but at a cost of reducing incentives to students to do well—what can a student do to get into the school they want to? Brett Bellmore 07.26.06 at 6:02 pm “In actual educational markets the imperfections are such that some people get what they want, and others don’t get what they want” That’s not a property of free markets as contrasted with controlled ones, that’s a property of reality as contrasted with fantasy. It’s never possible for everybody to get what they want. And that’s as true of any of the above proposals as it is of an unregulated market. I’ll stick by my position: Anybody who insists that a system of “choice” has to incorporate incentives and rules to make sure the outcome is to their liking, doesn’t want choice. They want control. And they ought to have the honesty to admit it. mythago 07.26.06 at 6:07 pm Surely in order to work, this tradeable permits system needs the assumption of no other sources of funds for the schools Yes. Which is a huge, huge problem for this model. The wealthy schools are in high-income neighborhoods, where residents are far more able to raise supplementary funds. I used to live in the south SF Bay, which andrew mentions in his post. The PTA in wealthy Palo Alto was able to raise $1 million a year in additional funds for their schools. Adjoining school districts with far less wealthy families were not going to match that. And, of course, the ‘official’ numbers get trotted out to suggest that wealthy Palo Alto can educate students on $X per student a year, so why can’t Sunnyvale? harry b 07.26.06 at 6:45 pm Brett, ok, I’ll just say that almost no-one involved in the school choice debate pretends that they are not interested in policymakers exercising control over the way that children are allocated to schools. They differ as to how much choice to allow, and how it should be distributed. A handful of people believe in complete privatisation. A large number say that they oppose choice (but don’t make proposals that would eliminate it). The rest of us may not, by your definition, care about school choice in any fundamental sense. But that’s where the debate is. William 07.26.06 at 10:13 pm The problem with trading rights to admit desirable students is that it misses the real issue . . . the right to exclude undesirable students. That’s the real problem with choice. Who chooses? If you are talking about a system where schools have more choice, that probably isn’t going to win over parents. Just as a thought experiment, what would happen if a student became more desirable over the course of their career? Would they be put in a position where (for example) their senior year Mom wins the Lotto, so they can’t stay at their high school? They have a growth spurt and become a power forward instead of a shooting guard? They buckle down and get a great SAT score? Or what about a kid that develops a drug problem and falls off? How exactly and how often would desirability be evaluated? Dan 07.26.06 at 10:25 pm People already have a choice. They can and do move to a different school district if they don’t like the one they are in. I know people who put down Grandma’s address if it is in a better district. If you want to discuss how to make our schools better, I think you have to talk about other things. People might argue that poor people can’t move. I would argue that many poor people couldn’t get their kids across town to the “better” schools. mythago 07.27.06 at 1:54 am I know people who put down Grandma’s address if it is in a better district. Then you know people who better have lawyers on speed-dial. Pretending that poor people can ‘just move’ to a school district where the mortgage on a home is more than their monthly income is a pretty severe case of denial of the problem. Daniel 07.27.06 at 5:05 am with regard to #19, I think that this demonstrates why I’m suspicious of this one. Professional sports teams’ trading is not meant to achieve an optimal allocation (it’s not even obvious what an optimal allocation would be) and I don’t think that there are many sports economists who would argue that the market for players clears in any meaningful way. It might not be death for the idea (market clearing isn’t the be-all and end-all, and nobody with their head screwed on would ever have thought that the theorems of welfare economics were going to be any help here). But I think that sports teams and draft picks would be a better analogy than emmissions permits. Ben M 07.27.06 at 10:09 am daniel (#30), I think you’re dead right to wonder whether the allocation will, in the end, be optimal, or even good. It’s not obvious what the allocation will be, nor whether that’s good, nor even what “good” actually is. The thing that intrigues me about this proposal is not its “optimalness” or even its “choice”, but simply the fact that it creates incentives within the context of universal, public, free education. At a glance, those incentives seem to push teachers/administrators in the direction of improving their own schools. The manner of improvement (Fiscal efficiency? Teacher quality? Class size?) is wholly up to the schools, and the assay of the improvement is mostly up to the students and parents, rather than test-score-analysts or bureacrats. The presence of re-sorting, while eye-catching, is just the gimmick which makes these incentives possible—-it’s not so important that the sorting be in any way optimal. (Given that the status quo is “sorting by cost of parents’ home”, almost any change is an improvement, no?) In every other scheme I’ve seen, there are either a) no incentives at all, b) “avoid wrath from above based on test scores” incentives, a la No Child Left Behind, or c) some arcanely-engineered profit motive. I’ve never quite figured out what the incentive structure is under “students go to any school they want”, given that there’s finite capacity at each school. Dan 07.27.06 at 2:20 pm Mythago, my point is: 1. choice is already happening for the rich and middle class. 2. poor people wouldn’t have the choice even if given a choice. They can’t afford to get across town. This whole discussion on choice is strange because it totally sidesteps the real (alleged) problem of bad schools. People already have choices. Homeschooling, alternative schooling, moving, using someone elses address, applying for other districts (You can do that in some states, certainly in CA). The only people who really don’t have a choice are the poor. harry b 07.27.06 at 2:32 pm 2. poor people wouldn’t have the choice even if given a choice. They can’t afford to get across town. Depends on the design of the choice scheme, population densities, and school size. London (in which schools have powers to select) has free public transport for kids, and most kids are withint reaosnable distance of a reasonable number of secondary schools. Some schemes pay for transport. mythago 07.27.06 at 3:27 pm dan, I understand what you’re saying about the poor having just about zero choice. But school choice is really available only to the wealthy. “Using someone’s address” is illegal; homeschooling is not legal, or practical, everywhere; and ‘alternative’ meaning ‘private’ is certainly not available to the poor. The discussion on choice doesn’t really sidestep the problem of bad schools; you have to assume there are bad schools or there’s no substantial reason for choice. Terry 07.28.06 at 1:12 am Re “advantaged” versus “undesirable” students. The fear with charter schools was that they would skim off the best students. The reality has been just the opposite. Parents of the cream of the crop students don’t want to mess with success, while parents of those who are struggling are more motivated to try something new. Also, I want to make the point that school choice isn’t just about getting your child into a better school. It’s also about getting your child into a school whose philosophy you agree with. For example a school which had a strong program against bullying would hold a lot of appeal for some parents. But a lot of parents would not care one way of another what the school’s policy on bullying was. britta 07.28.06 at 1:50 am I went to school in a school district where a) all public high schools were magnet schools and b) public transportation was subsidized by the city for students, making choice very achievable for students. Moreover, funding was roughly inversely proportional to the success of the school (with some exceptions). The highest performing school, which had an international baccalaureate curriculum and sent 95% of its students to university had the lowest per student funding, whereas the worst off school, which had less than a 30% graduation rate, had one of the highest student funding ratios. The rationale was that the highest performing school did well because of the IB curriculum, caliber of students (predominantly white upper middle class), and quality of its teachers, all of which were not that expensive after an initial investment, and also that sending more money to the worst performing school might create an incentive for students to go there. The result was interesting in that it ended up with a very high performing school with overcrowded classrooms (There were 50 students in my calculus class, and in some classes the last students had to sit on the windowsill or stand. Indeed, some teachers asked their students to attend class in rotating four day shifts and then skip on the fifth day to relieve crowding); substandard classrooms; and worn out/photocopied books. In contrast, the worst performing school had extremely small class sizes, motivated teachers, and was in a beautifully renovated building. It did not have the intended effect of reducing inequality however, and despite the extra funding, the school remained underperforming, with about 40% of neighborhood students choosing not to attend. While funding is certainly important for good schooling, the correlation between money and quality of a school seems not to be as strong as many people are assuming, especially if it’s a superficial amount. It may not be as strong as the correlation between type of students and school, or perhaps administration and school quality. Of course, if a school could provide to disadvantaged students all the resources available out of school to privileged students (trips to museums and libraries, one-on-one tutoring, music lessons, healthy balanced meals, behavior altering drugs, etc.), which are expensive, funding could neutralize student performance inequalities. This would take a very large amount of funding as well as talented teachers and administrators, not necessarily a given.

Identifying and Overcoming Mentalism Coni Kalinowski, M.D. and Pat Risser InforMed Health Publishing & Training Mentalism is a term coined by author and activist Judi Chamberlain to describe discrimination against people who have received psychiatric treatment (1). Like other "isms," such as racism and sexism, mentalism is characterized by complex social inequities of power that result in the pervasive mistreatment of people who have been labeled "mentally ill." Some of this mistreatment is blatant, such as being stripped and locked in a cold room or being beaten during physical restraint. However, like all discrimination, mentalism is even more commonly expressed in the multiple, small insults and indignities that the labeled person suffers every day. Dr. Chester Pierce, an African-American psychiatrist and author writing about racism, termed these small attacks "micro-aggressions" (2). Individual micro-aggressions tend not to be powerful in themselves. To understand their impact upon people, one must consider that the person is subjected to hundreds or even thousands of these denigrating, disrespectful communications each day over years. These micro-aggressions have a cumulative effect. In the US, we are constantly surrounded by derogatory language regarding psychiatric problems ("He's a basket case." "You're nuts." "What a loony tune."), negative stereotypes about anyone who seeks mental health services, hostility ("They need to be locked up."), and sensationalistic media stories depicting people as crazed killers and "dangerous mental patients". Over time most people cannot help but be affected by this barrage of abuse. Many people who have experienced psychiatric treatment internalize these negative attitudes and begin to feel badly about themselves (3,4,5). People may feel ashamed or blame themselves for their difficulties, feel worthless and hopeless about their futures, or lose confidence in their abilities. Often, people find that they must hide their histories, and live in fear of losing their job, their friends, or their credibility. These reactions to discrimination can become devastating to people as they begin to direct more and more of their anger and helplessness back at themselves. Unfortunately, in the field of mental health, we rarely recognize or acknowledge the power of mentalism. Instead, the person who is demoralized by his or her treatment as a "mental patient" is more likely to be rediagnosed, labeled "treatment resistant," or offered more medication. A mental health professional will rarely address the issue of discrimination as a focus of services, and often, we are more likely to contribute to the problem than to help. Those of us who provide mental health services are certainly not free from the influence of mentalism. Offensive and injurious practices are integrated into everyday clinical procedures to the point where we no longer recognize them as discrimination and find it strange that anyone should question our approach. Yet these unintentional micro- and macro-aggressions are no less damaging to the people we serve. We are also subject to the influences of mentalism in the sense that if we try to change our mentalist attitudes or those of our fellow practitioners we may find that we are questioned, challenged, spurned and even disdained. It is always unpleasant to discover that we have been acting to oppress others. It is equally uncomfortable to consider relinquishing power to others. However, if we truly want to help people to recover and heal, we must address the impact of mentalism upon their health and well-being. We need to do everything possible to eliminate mentalist practices from our services. To truly combat mentalism we must move beyond superfluous changes that make us sound politically correct. We need to earnestly challenge our own assumptions and attitudes in order to personally recover from the prejudices we have learned. Us vs. Them Mentalism, like all the "isms," separates people into a power-up group and a power-down group. In the case of mentalism, the power-up group is assumed to be "normal," healthy, reliable, and capable. The power-down group, composed of people who have received psychiatric treatment, is assumed to be sick, disabled, crazy, unpredictable, and violent. This black-and-white style of thinking is referred to in psychodynamic literature as "splitting." Splitting paves the way to establish a lower standard of service to the power-down group. An apartment that is too run down for "us" is good enough for "them." Side effects that "we" would never tolerate should not interfere with "their" compliance. Medication risks that "we" find unacceptable are reasonable for "them." "We" need credit cards to extend our salaries, but "they" need to budget their social security income to the penny. The assumptions of mentalism are further recruited to justify these inequities, as for example, "forcing 'them' to take medications that cause tardive dyskinesia is necessary because 'they' are sick and 'we' are not." Mentalism, like racism, is also used to justify violence. If "we" were jumped upon by a group of people, taken down and forcibly injected with powerful medications, then locked up and tied down in isolation, it would be considered assault and battery, kidnapping, or torture. If we do this to "them" in a hospital, it is "treatment" for their own good. Mentalist splitting also allows the power-up group to judge and reframe human behaviors in accord with the power dynamic. The behaviors of the power-down group are framed in pathological terms while the same behaviors are excused or even valued in members of the power-up group. For example, a psychiatrist colleague who threw abusive tantrums at nursing staff was seen as "authoritarian" and "running a tight ship" while people receiving care on the same unit were forcibly medicated and secluded for the same "inappropriate" behavior. Of course, we all know from personal experience that most people don't fit into either of the artificial extremes created by splitting. Most of us have good and bad periods in our lives, times of good and bad judgment, strengths and weaknesses, and periods of distress and of health. Rather than acknowledging that splitting is a distortion of reality, mentalist thinking has led people to establish a category that we would call "almost us": "high-functioning." The "high-functioning patient" is generally a person who is just like "us" in every way except one - his or her psychiatric label. The power-up group can feel gratified that they have recognized the person's contributions by acknowledging that the person isn't "just one of them," yet the person retains his/her cautionary label and all the negative stereotypes that go with it. Other individuals are given the designation "low-functioning" which clearly conveys the perception that the person does not make valuable contributions and is considered to be of lower worth to the community (6). At times the "low functioning" label can be used punitively to describe a consumer who challenges the power of the staff. because I had the audacity to challenge one of the therapists.." -P.R. Labeling someone as either high-functioning or low-functioning has no healing impact upon the person in distress and in fact, can have quite the opposite effect. It can cause them to feel more hopeless and helpless and thus iatrogenically more distressed than before being labeled in this pejorative way. The cumulative effects of this sort of micro-aggression can even cost lives. "Unbeknown to the staff, we clients talk a lot. We talked before groups, we talked after groups, we talked before day treatment, we talked after day treatment, we talked during lunch. One friend named Mark had a drinking problem. He was also on some very heavy duty neuroleptic drugs. Using all the "senior client". After he stopped drinking,'d never look was disgusted with what I witnessed in day treatment. I saw folks who'd been there for many years and the system called them a "success" because they had learned to comply with taking the drugs and hadn't been in the hospital recently. What I saw were soul-dead. I knew that the problems ran deeper than just getting folks away from the professionals. I knew that I must work to help clients have their own voice. Not just some weak squeaky whimper but a strong and loud and clear voice. This was my first tentative awareness of micro-oppressors and the life and death consequences of those oppressions and that the true struggle lay in helping my fellow mental patients to overcome this brainwashing." -P.R. A simple rule of thumb that can be used to identify and combat splitting in ourselves is to evaluate clinical practice as if we are the recipient. For example, we might ask ourselves if we would live in a certain place, take a medication, put up with a risk or side effect, go to a group, or want to be talked about in a given manner. If the answer is "No, but " followed by any sort of justification, you have identified mentalism in practice. It is difficult to generate genuine empathy for another person in the presence of splitting, as the splitting dynamic itself causes us to view the other person as entirely apart from and unlike ourselves. Seemingly empathic statements such as "If I were in his shoes " often obfuscate the underlying mentalist assumption that results from splitting: "but of course, I never will be." Such statements give the appearance that the provider is actively trying to understand the perspective of the other person but, in reality, they often function to reinforce perceptions that the other person is different, defective, or deviant. Often it is subtly implied that the person has brought her difficulties on herself, or that the person has chosen to affect disability and could choose to "snap out of it." It further implies that the competent provider would exert better judgment in the recipient's situation and would therefore escape the difficulties facing the recipient. The overall effect is that the seemingly empathic statement becomes a validation of the superiority of the provider and can then be used to justify inequities of power and the oppressive practices that result. Because "being in the recipient's shoes" is seen as a purely hypothetical situation, the provider can justify giving it little serious introspective consideration and draw broad conclusions with little attention to logic. A clear example of this is the provider who asserts "If I were homeless and mentally ill, I would want to be medicated involuntarily" as a justification for outpatient commitment for others. Rarely do these individuals have advance directives for themselves stating this preference, as they would if their comment was made in earnest. They clearly see homelessness and psychiatric disability as unlikely to occur in their lives and have, therefore, not seriously considered the complex social and personal barriers that they might face in that situation. Their pseudo-empathy becomes a platform for promoting social control rather than any true understanding of people's difficulties and needs. It also reinforces the power differential between provider and consumer; the provider's imagined experience of homelessness and psychiatric disability is given more credibility than the consumer's actual experience with these challenges. Ideally, we should treat people as we would want to be treated, with respect, dignity, and concern. We should listen to people and provide services based upon their expressed interests instead of judging them and acting in what we (perhaps falsely) believe to be their best interests. We should never refer people to any service or resource that we would not use ourselves, or subject anyone to treatment that we would not welcome for ourselves. This is a lofty goal in a society that continues to provide inadequate public supports and resources for people's basic needs. Undoubtedly most clinicians will find themselves in the position of making less-than-optimal referrals. Even in the face of these difficulties, we can communicate concern for the comfort and preferences of the person we are serving, and affirm the person's deservedness of a better life. It is very important that we not convey the impression that people must accept substandard treatment, or should be grateful for whatever they are given. We need to express hope that the person will achieve the quality of life that s/he desires and offer assistance to help the person to improve his or her circumstances. We also need to encourage people to hope and dream. Too often, we tell people what they can't do and thus, we rob them of the ability to hope. Instead, we need to help people to find within themselves both the ability to dream and the belief that those dreams can become possible. We can communicate caring and respect by retaining a vision of people's strengths and value even during the bad times, and encouraging them always to draw upon their better qualities and abilities. Distinguishing What We Think From What We Know For the most part, humans tend to believe they know a lot more than they actually do. Most of what we think we know is actually belief in a model or an approximation, and very often these models prove to be false. Consider, for example, the people who reviled Semmelweis and Pasteur because they knew that microbes could not exist, or the people who demanded that Copernicus recant because they knew the world is flat. Like them, we can expect that most of what we have learned in professional training will similarly be replaced by different models and new information. New learning is further complicated by the length of time that transpires between research and implementation. Unfortunately, in the human services realm, that length of time is very long, on the order of ten or more years. So, while research has confirmed the benefits of consumer choice in the healing process, professionals generally continue to provide services that focus on conformity and compliance. Due to this lag between research and practice, people using services will not have the benefit of contemporary approaches that address the effects of mentalism for many years and practitioners will continue to implement services that are already outmoded and are frequently injurious. For these reasons, we must develop a deep appreciation for how much we don't know, and approach our work with commensurate humility. If we are honest, we must admit that we don't know why people have the experiences that are labeled "psychiatric" or whether these are actually illnesses. We don't know how medications affect people. We don't know how neurochemistry relates to human feeling and behavior. We don't know how people recover and heal. This is not to say that mental health professionals have nothing to offer people. We have useful information, resources, and various treatment approaches. We can also offer the one thing that consumers identify as an essential factor in recovery: a supportive, respectful, genuine helping relationship. "In all the times I was hospitalized, both voluntarily and involuntarily, I never received any help through the drugs, the seclusion, the restraints, the impersonal structure of the day, the "milieu," the worn out tired old "same 'ole, same 'ole" groups or any of the other staff imposed routine. The ONLY thing that ever helped me was face-to-face, person-to-person contact with caring individuals. Only rarely did any staff person ever even attempt to make that sort of connection. More often than not,those caring individuals were my fellow patients. Those caring connections were literally what kept me sane in insane places and were the only thing which produced any healing effect. It's why I went on to form effective self-help groups outside of the hospital. I realized that the healing benefits come from other people and not within the structure of the institutions." -P.R. Mentalist thinking often causes us to lose sight of the gaping holes in our knowledge and to underestimate our limitations. We begin to believe that we have sound scientific answers for people's problems and that the treatment we recommend is "right." Failure to recognize the limits of our knowledge can lead us to act prematurely and restrictively. We tend to interpret behavior when we should inquire about its meaning, and prescribe interventions when we should listen and learn. "I used to sit under a bridge and bang the back of my head on the concrete until the back of my head was a bloody mess. The typical mental health worker would, upon observing this, panic and forcibly intervene. This intervention would be predicated upon the belief that I was too "out of it" to know what I was doing. However, both my personal experience and that of most mental health consumers I've talked with cause me to believe that even though we may appear to be "out of it," we are still connected on some level. I KNEW I was banging my head and could have even talked with someone about that fact if anyone had taken the time to attempt to communicate with me. A good friend, sums this up by saying, "just because I'm banging my head on a table doesn't mean I don't know that I'm banging my head on a table." Most professionals won't listen to us and learn that even in our worst "psychotic state" they could still connect with that part of us which still has a level of awareness if they'd only try. It seems easier for them to just assume we're totally "out of it" and to impose their will forcibly upon us in the name of help." -P.R. Typically, when treatments are ineffective or unacceptable, the recipient is blamed. He or she is "treatment-resistant," "uncooperative," "non-compliant," or "characterologic" and has therefore failed the provider rather than the other way around. S/he may even be pressured, threatened, or coerced to accept the treatment, despite the fact that it has already proven to be inadequate. This is particularly common in the case of the person who refuses a psychotropic medication due to side effects; clinicians often insist upon "compliance" despite the person's experience of physical discomfort, neurological impairment, or other evidence that the treatment is not effective. To combat this mentalist prejudice, we need to modify our assumptions and approach people in a manner that acknowledges the imperfections of our tools. The recipient's lack of response or objections to the treatment must be assumed to be reasonable and credible. When treatment fails, it is always due to the short-comings of the treatment. These short-comings may include inadequate understanding of the person or his/her problems, medication side effects, poor match between the treatment and the person's lifestyle, stigma associated with the treatment, difficulty with access, cultural unacceptability or many other issues. It is the clinician's responsibility to initiate the response to treatment failure in a collaborative manner by talking with the person receiving the service. These discussions should examine the difficulties with the treatment and explore ways that it can be modified to better fit with the person's needs. Mentalism in Language Mentalism is eloquently expressed in the jargon of mental health, which directly reflects the power difference that exists between the "power-up" and the "power-down" groups. Changing our language alone will certainly make us less offensive to others and give the appearance of being politically correct. However, to truly address the issue of prejudice and have an impact on our participation in discrimination, it becomes necessary to look at the attitudes and assumptions underlying the words. The language that has become politically charged in mental health includes terms that communicate condescension, blame, and the perception of labeled people as defective. Many offensive terms are obvious - basket case, loony tune, etc. The offensive aspects of seemingly professional terminology are often more subtle. How these terms are used from an interpersonal or systemic standpoint is generally more important than their overt meaning. Interestingly, mental health professionals often object that they "need" these words to communicate psychiatric concepts. Yet most of the offensive terminology is non-medical and non-specific, and could easily be expressed in a more accurate, less offensive manner. A good example is the term decompensate which is used colloquially to indicate that a person is having more distress. It does not refer to a specific clinical finding, spectrum of symptoms, or event, so that the clinician who is referred a person who "decompensated" knows nothing about the person's needs or history. Interpersonally, the term is generally used to designate someone who is defective and fragile, who cannot take care of him- or herself, and who cannot tolerate stress and therefore falls apart. "Decompensating" is an us-them term; under stress "we" may not do well; "we" may cocoon, take to bed, get bummed out, get burned out, get a short fuse, throw plates, scream, call in sick, or need a leave of absence. "They" decompensate. Occasionally, the term is used with an overtone of superiority that is clearly intended to convey the power difference between the "competent professional" and the "sick client." Both activists and clinicians have suggested that people abandon this term in favor of describing, briefly but accurately, what the person is experiencing. For example, "After the break-up with her girlfriend, Mary couldn't sleep. She started pacing at night and complained of hearing voices." This brief statement factually describes Mary's experience and gives meaningful information that begins to suggest interventions that may be helpful. Many activists have noted that part of the demotion from "us" to "them" is a loss of one's designation as a person. One is suddenly no longer a person with a diagnosis, but "a schizophrenic" or "a bipolar." People who have internalized this dehumanizing labeling process will even at times introduce themselves as "a mental patient" or "a CMI" ("chronically mentally ill") rather than introducing themselves by name. Professionals who are entrenched in this terminology will often counter that this is no different than referring to a person as "a diabetic." However, it is important to factor in the reality that medical illnesses are not associated with the negative assumptions and prejudices that are inferred from a psychiatric label. A "diabetic" is not assumed to be violent, unpredictable, or incompetent. The dehumanizing aspects of psychiatric diagnosis combined with the traumatic experiences that many people have had under psychiatric treatment have caused people to associate the term "patient" with discrimination, coercion, and oppression (7, 8). Unlike the patients of a dentist, optometrist, or gynecologist, the psychiatric "patient" is often forced to have treatment, incarcerated against his or her will, and stigmatized for life. In activist circles, the term applied to a person who has received psychiatric treatment has become a very personal choice that reflects the individual's experiences, feelings, and identity. Individuals may choose to refer to themselves as ex-patients, survivors, consumers, or clients, or they may refuse a designation altogether. Civil rights-oriented groups often refer to "consumers/survivors/ex-patients," while the designation "client" remains the most common and generally accepted term in public mental health systems. Many people in the medical community have been overtly resistant to changing their terminology, and equally resistant to considering the trauma that underlies the movement for change. Psychiatrists and nurses seem particularly unwilling to examine the cruelty and betrayal experienced by the people who have been mandated to psychiatric care. Most individuals who have had a long-standing psychiatric disability can recall forced ECT without anesthesia, physical or sexual abuse by staff, being taunted or humiliated, being shackled to a bed, involuntary lobotomy, or being subjected to painful "behavior therapy." A colleague of the authors even reported that he remembered being herded into a mass shower with a cattle prod while he was a patient at the state hospital. Efforts to protect the rights of individuals have eliminated some, but certainly not all, of these injurious practices. It is the pain and the fear generated by these experiences that underlies the movement to find new terms and concepts. It is hoped that a change in language will contribute to a change in assumptions and attitudes that will in turn deter such abuses and underscore the need to preserve a person's safety, liberty, and dignity. Yet, much like the person who justifies the use of ethnic slurs because s/he intends no harm, medical personnel have continued to justify the use of the term "patient" because they see it as simply technical. Others defend its use because it represents a sacred trust between doctor and patient. These seemingly reasonable and noble explanations are a smoke screen for the mentalist power dynamic: professionals are generally accustomed to being in charge and, as a colleague once said, they're "not about to be dictated to by a bunch of patients." Consistent with the power dynamic, the power-up group is comfortable with the existing terminology and that comfort takes precedence over the feelings, wellbeing, and dignity of those who are power-down. Most of the time, professionals cause these offenses unintentionally, but this makes them no less wounding. In order to escape from mentalist attitudes and language we need to examine the underlying meanings and functions of our communications. For example,? It can be illuminating to ask oneself why one continues to use a term that offends and stigmatizes the people one aspires to help. If we lack the empathy that would motivate us to change our language to avoid hurting the people we serve, what does that say about our integrity as healers? Respectful clinical language should focus both the clinician and the recipient on the search for the most successful tools for health and recovery. If a diagnosis helps a person to understand her/his experiences and gain control over her/his life, it is a useful tool. If it stigmatizes, communicates contempt, and excludes the person from services, it is a weapon. Respectful clinical language is not a misrepresentation or under-estimation of a person's difficulties and experiences. It should be precise, factual, and complete. It should also communicate the perspective of the person receiving services, including his/her values, interests, and priorities. Many individuals who have received mental health services feel that the vernacular of clinicians misrepresents reality. (9) 'side-effect.' There are only 'effects'." -P.R. A good rule of thumb to address mentalism in language is to ask oneself if you would use the same language when speaking directly to the person or if you would feel comfortable having the person read what has been written in the chart. Other useful questions include: Would I want to be talked about in this manner? Would I talk about my friends and colleagues in this manner? Does this language help the person and the clinician to find solutions to problems and create positive change? Any "No" answers, no matter how seemingly justifiable, indicate mentalism is operating within the communications. Mentalism in Prognostication Mental health professionals are commonly called upon to predict what people will do in life and whether they will recover. We have become accustomed to conveying rather dire predictions about chronicity, and often in charts under "Prognosis" one will see such terms as "poor" or "guarded." In general, my experience has been that mentalist assumptions have caused clinicians to have a rather pessimistic view of the capacity for their clients to recover. Many clinicians overtly dismiss the idea that people overcome their difficulties and leave mental health services to have full lives. When one points out the large number of people, including many mental health activists, who have overcome their disabilities, clinicians commonly respond that these individuals must have been "misdiagnosed" or "do not really have schizophrenia." In fact, many longer-term research studies have shown that a significant number of people having serious psychiatric concerns recover completely, irrespective of their presentation or diagnosis. Dr. Courntey Harding's studies, for example, showed that approximately 50% of people having psychiatric disabilities recovered fully over a 25 year time period (10, 11, 12). Many of these people received no further treatment, including psychiatric medications. These observations are in marked contradistinction to the assumptions of most mental health professionals, and many clinicians are quick to try to discount or discredit this research. While one can endlessly dispute research methodology, the human impact of mentalism in prognostication is undeniable. People receiving the pronouncements "You will have this disability for life," "You will always have to take medications," or "You will not become a lawyer/doctor/economist/teacher" are almost invariably devastated. Some experience helplessness and despair. Others resist, refuse further treatment, or seek other alternative ways to heal. In fact, the accuracy of such predictions is abysmal, and repeatedly, studies have confirmed that the criteria that clinicians employ to make such predictions are not related to recovery. For example, clinicians have traditionally discouraged people from seeking employment on the basis of the severity or frequency of their symptoms or the length of time they have been disabled. None of these factors has proven to correlate positively or negatively with successful employment; the best predictors are intuitively obvious - motivation to work and capacity to learn (13, 14). Overcoming mentalism in prognostication requires that we critically examine our assumptions about recovery from psychiatric disabilities. In many instances, clinicians' views have been skewed by the fact that they are most likely to see people only during the times when they are experiencing distress. Those who recover rarely come back to the clinic or the hospital. We must disclose to people that we don't know who will recover, when, or how. In many ways this allows us to impart a very hopeful message to everyone we serve. No matter how painful a person's disability, no matter how incapacitated s/he may have been, no matter how long s/he has struggled, there is always a significant chance that s/he will improve considerably or even recover completely. A message of hope also opens the door for clinicians to inform people about the things they can do to restore their health and what pitfalls to avoid. In our experience, people are often more motivated to work on their health if they are aware that there is a reasonable likelihood of success. Mentalism and Psychotropic Medications The attitudes and practices that surround the use of psychotropic medications are unfortunately full of manifestations of mentalism. In its most obvious form, the person receiving treatment is presumed to be "crazy" and therefore unable to make medical decisions, so that medical personnel fail to observe the usual procedures with respect to informed choice. Often a person's objections to medications are dismissed on the grounds that "mental patients cannot appreciate the gravity of their illnesses" and therefore the person's experience of the treatment is deemed invalid. It is also both unfortunate and common in busy office practices for clinicians to gloss over the problematic side effects described by their clients without fully considering the impact upon people's lives. The myth of compliance is a particularly destructive manifestation of mentalism in psychiatry. Nowhere in medicine are physicians more preoccupied with enforcing "compliance." Most non-psychiatric physicians have come to accept that compliance itself is a myth. Certainly, studies of "compliance" with everything from diabetic diets to anti-hypertensive agents show that humans don't comply with anything. At least one third of people in these studies fail to follow their doctors' instructions and many studies have shown rates of "non-compliance" of over 50% (15). Studies of people who are contending with psychiatric disability have shown that the best results are obtained when people are well-informed and in control of their treatment and when health care providers build flexibility into treatment regimens (16, 17, 18). Yet psychiatry has continued to support measures that focus on forcing people to comply with treatments that they feel are unhelpful. To a large degree this reflects a key element in the discrimination and mistreatment of people having psychiatric concerns: because mentalist prejudices portray people having psychiatric concerns as violent and unpredictable, treatment has largely become synonymous with social control. As a result, mental health clinicians tend to equate subduing the person with treatment; a quiet client who causes no community disturbance is deemed "improved" no matter how miserable or incapacitated that person may feel as a result of the treatment. As in other forms of social control, incarceration is used to contain the person who will not comply, though, because the incarceration occurs in a hospital, it is deemed to be "treatment." When applied to other forms of medical treatment this model sounds absurd. Imagine jailing a diabetic for having dessert or incarcerating a person having chronic bronchitis for lighting up a cigarette or forgetting his/her inhaler. If stringent monitoring of compliance with general medical treatment were enforced through social control, it is fair to say that we would all be incarcerated over time. No one would find such a solution to public health problems acceptable because it violates people's right to choose their lifestyles and medical treatment. In virtually all other medical concerns, we have upheld individuals' rights in this regard irrespective of the possible risks to self or others. The only exception has been in the reporting and treatment of highly communicable diseases. Yet numerous legislative initiatives throughout the US are presently proposing that people having psychiatric conditions be locked up in psychiatric facilities if they fail to comply with treatment and are deemed to be at risk of becoming ill. This clearly compromises the rights of people having a psychiatric diagnosis in ways that we would never consider for people having medical diagnoses. Mentalism in psychiatric practice is also apparent in the lack of thoroughness in informed consent and in the monitoring of medication side effects. In California, informed consent is presently obtained by having people sign a paper on which possible medication side effects are listed. No distinction is made between dangerous side effects and uncomfortable ones; no suggestions are given for identification and management. Once signed, the information is placed in the chart so that the individual has no access to it. Often, medically serious side effects are "dumbed down" so that people do not get an accurate view of the risks involved. For example, tardive dyskinesia, a potentially permanent neurological condition caused by antipsychotic medications, is often described as "having muscle tics." Many people are approached for consent only during crises or acute bouts of their conditions, and the information is never revisited when the person is more able to concentrate and process information. This approach to informed consent is of minimal benefit to the person receiving treatment. The perfunctory quality of this approach to informed consent is clearly driven by the mentalist power dynamic, which acts to protect the clinician from allegations of negligence without truly informing the person getting treatment. Monitoring of side effects is also conspicuously affected by mentalist prejudices. A particularly worrisome example of this is the failure of many psychiatrists to examine people for tardive dyskinesia (TD). As noted above, TD is a neurological condition caused by antipsychotic medications. It is characterized by the gradual onset of involuntary muscle movements that may include grimacing, rapid blinking and squinting, tongue protrusion, movements of the arms and legs, and twisting and writhing motions of the trunk. When TD is detected early, it is often completely reversible. If it is not detected early, TD is often progressive and permanent, so that even if the medication is stopped, the person may continue to have odd movements that s/he cannot control. When these movements are severe, they can interfere with sight, eating, speech, walking, and other basic activities. The movements are extremely stigmatizing, and can have serious health consequences. For example, when TD causes involuntary movements of the muscles of the throat, liquids may leak into the windpipe when people swallow, causing repeated bouts of pneumonia. While the person is taking the antipsychotic medication, the movements of TD are often masked. They also may not be apparent until the person is distracted or excited. For all these reasons, the American Psychiatric Association recommended in 1980 that psychiatrists reduce the dose of antipsychotics on a regular basis and examine people taking these medications for TD annually using a standardized assessment such as the AIMS or the DISCUS (19). However, this is not what typically happens in mental health clinics. Generally, individuals taking neuroleptics are encouraged to stay on a maintenance dose of medications. Regular dose reductions are rare, as clinicians fear the person will "decompensate." Psychiatrists typically observe the person informally for obvious involuntary movements and indicate in the chart "no TD." Rarely is an AIMS or DISCUS performed or documented. Generally the discussion of TD is limited to the warning of possible "muscle tics" given in the informed consent. Hopefully it is obvious that these measures are inadequate to detect TD or address the medical risks associated with it. The net result is that year after year, thousands of people receive antipsychotic medications without ever being thoroughly evaluated for a potentially disabling medication side effect. One can only wonder why psychiatrists are failing to perform this routine monitoring of medication risks. Certainly, it is not due to time constraints, as the modified AIMS or DISCUS takes only 10 minutes to perform and rate (20). It cannot be due to fears that people will abandon treatment, as research suggests that well-informed recipients tend to be more involved in their care and less likely to be "non-compliant." One can only conclude that mentalism is operating here as elsewhere, causing psychiatrists to feel that unidentified TD is somehow an acceptable risk for people having psychiatric disabilities. The comparison with medical maltreatment based upon racism, such as the Tuskegee experiment in which African-American men were allowed to be exposed to the risks associated with untreated syphilis, is inescapable. It has been virtually impossible to penetrate psychiatric denial regarding the issue of TD, despite APA recommendations and multi-million dollar malpractice suits. Its most recent incarnation is the prevalent belief that newer antipsychotic medications do not cause TD. Many clinicians appear oblivious to the fact that all antipsychotic medications have been found to be associated with the development of TD, and that the studies showing reduced risk with newer agents have been conducted for relatively brief periods of time. Even clozapine, the "gold standard" among antipsychotics, and the serotonin reuptake inhibitor antidepressants have been associated in rare instances with this condition (21, 22, 23). Inexplicably, the same physicians that insist upon other early detection measures such as blood tests, PAP smears, mammograms, and prostate exams continue to refuse to perform the AIMS for people taking neuroleptics. Elimination of mentalist discrimination in medication practices requires that we reflect on our attitudes and make significant departures from the present state of psychiatric procedure. Some suggestions follow: 1. We must separate, conceptually and in practice, the use of psychotropic medications to enforce social control from true treatment. Psychiatrists are presently burdened with the unrealistic societal expectation that they can ensure public safety through the use of psychotropic drugs to control people who are labeled as potentially deviant. Until we are relieved of this oppressive myth, clinical practice will continue to reflect the public's mentalist prejudices rather than the needs of the people we serve. 2. Informed consent must be refined so that people receive comprehensive and easily understandable information about their choices that neither catastrophizes nor downplays the health risks of the treatment. This information should be reviewed with the person periodically and needs to go with the person rather than sitting in the chart. 3. When making treatment decisions, we must give highest priority to the individual's assessment of the treatment, especially his or her subjective report of side effects and the impact of the medications on his/her life. We need to be aware of the biases of others who may report that a person is "improved" when in fact the person is simply too sedated or too neurologically impaired by the medication to "cause trouble." 4. We must abandon the myth of compliance and focus instead on understanding the decision-making processes that people go through as they choose their treatment. 5. We must diligently apply ourselves to the task of early identification of the medical consequences of psychotropic medications. This should include regular examination for TD, appropriate blood tests for liver or kidney damage, annual ophthalmology exams for people taking phenothiazine antipsychotics, audiology screening for people taking valproic acid preparations, and so forth. Mentalism and the Physical Environment In clinics, residences, and in the community, mentalism can be found in the design and maintenance of the physical environment. The indicators of power expressed in environmental terms include space, privacy, safety, cleanliness, comfort, choice, access, and aesthetics. We all know how this works from personal experience. For example, the person at the top of an organization has a large private office with comfortable, or even lavish, furnishings and usually her/his own computer and printer. The people at the bottom work in small "cubes," have utilitarian furnishings, and share facilities such as refrigerator, printer, computer, and restroom. Mentalism makes these differences even more pronounced. Individuals living in supported environments often share rooms with roommates not of their choosing, rarely have privacy, and use furniture that is chosen by others for easy maintenance and durability rather than comfort or aesthetics. Many have insufficient space to display or store personal possessions. Many residences provide no way for people to lock their possessions, their rooms, or the bathroom to insure safety and privacy and deter theft. Often, housing options are run-down or located remotely, and labeled people are left to use public transportation that is inconvenient, uncomfortable, or even unsafe. In many ways, these conditions are shared by anyone who has little money. However, mentalism does contribute to many specific environmental micro-aggressions as well. A common one, occurring in many clinics, is simply the separation of staff and client restrooms. The separation of the facilities for "staff" and "clients" mirrors the conditions in the Southeastern US prior to the civil rights movement of African-Americans, where racist beliefs led to the separation of all public facilities for "whites" and "non-whites". In public mental health clinics, the separation of facilities is often combined with a lack of maintenance and privacy in the restrooms used by clients. In one place that I am aware of, stalls in the "client" restroom had no doors. This was justified as a "safety measure." As with other discriminatory practices, clinicians often justify the separation of facilities: "clients have a different standard of hygiene than we have." Hopefully, the condescension contained in this response is obvious. It also obfuscates the responsibility of a public service to provide a respectful physical environment for public use. If public use causes the facility to need more cleaning, it is simply the responsibility of the organization to see that it is cleaned frequently enough to make it acceptable to anyone, rather than setting aside a "clean space" for staff and allowing public space to deteriorate. In inpatient settings, the space around the nurses' station is often a site where environmental mentalism is evident. Frequently, staff congregate here and observe the behaviors of people on the unit from a distance. It is also a place where staff converse informally. Individuals receiving treatment who approach are shooed away from this staff territory. The rationalization is that staff must "monitor the milieu" and ensure safety on the unit. Yet in reality this function would be better served if staff were mixing with people on the unit, influencing the milieu by engaging people and supporting various activities. The real function of the nursing station is to convey a sense of superiority and control. Often this impression is emphasized by the use of plexi-glass dividers or even chain-link caging. In one very sad place familiar to the authors, staff worked within a centrally located plexi-glass enclosure. This enclosure was surrounded in turn by a high counter and clients were only permitted at the perimeter beyond the counter, usually seated in a line of recliners facing inward toward the nursing station. Environmental offensiveness is often combined with procedural micro-aggressions to produce particularly disparaging messages toward people using services. For example, from the patients' point of view, the "call for medication" on an inpatient unit more resembles a cattle call than a caring distribution of helpful medications. In a regular hospital setting, the staff individually distribute medications to patients. On many psychiatric units, staff have the patients all line up at certain times of day to receive their daily doses. This impersonal process further reinforces the depersonalization of the individual and contributes to the sense of the person being more a chart number, a diagnosis or an object rather than a unique individual human being. Innumerable examples of mentalism in design exist in clinical settings. By themselves, they often seem like small concerns, and the person who seeks to address them is frequently accused of being petty. Yet taken together, these small, belittling messages in the physical environment have a major impact on people. Again, a good general guideline in evaluating the environment is to reflect upon how we would feel coming into the setting seeking services. Trauma and Re-traumatization Mentalism can cause further difficulties for those who have a past history of trauma. There is great negligence in obtaining trauma histories from people receiving mental health services even though available studies indicate that a huge number of people, between 50% - 80%, in the public mental health system are affected (24, 25, 26). Selective inattention to a past history of abuse often causes clinicians to fail to diagnose the root cause of psychiatric disability. "I was horribly abused as a child. My mother physically and emotionally abused me even pre-natally by trying to jump off of tables at work (for which she was fired). My father was seeking divorce and custody when he died in a car accident just before I turned two years old. From the court investigators report, my mother would have been found to have been an abusive and unfit mother and my father would have been granted custody. He would have been the first male parent to have been awarded sole custody of minor children in the state of Ohio had he lived. My mother remarried when I was seven years old. My step-father was sexually abusive from the time I was age seven until I moved out of the house at age seventeen. To cope with this abusive environment, I learned to dissociate in a couple of ways. I blanked out the memories of the abuse, I could both numb my body to feel no pain or I could actually leave my body and experience a sort of floating out-of-body experience. I did this to minimize the fear and the pain I felt. Years later, when these memories, that I'd successfully repressed, started to intrude, the way I coped with the painful flood, lead me to become a mental patient. A typical experience would have me searching for some way to cut myself to try and quell the overwhelming feelings of pain and fear that welled up in huge flashbacks. For me, cutting was a way to overcome the pain. It created another focus. It was like stubbing your toe in the dead of night when you get up to get something for a headache. The pain in your toe makes the headache become forgotten and thus go away." -P.R. Clearly, there is a need for more research on psychiatric disability among people who have a history of trauma. In addition, there is a need for training to increase sensitivity and understanding of staff regarding how to gather data on abuse histories and how to help people who have experienced abuse. It is important to understand that, due to the power differential between staff and recipients, many psychiatric interventions trigger or retraumatize the survivor (27, 28, 29). "A typical response on the part of staff to these episodes [of cutting] was to strip me, place me in restraints and seclusion and to inject powerful drugs. I reacted very badly to these "interventions." I kicked and screamed and carried on something fierce. The reason for my reaction was simple. As a child, the overwhelming, all encompassing feeling while being raped by my step-father or beaten to a pulp by my mother was a feeling of powerlessness. Painful powerlessness. And, as I was trying to cope with those feelings as an adult in a mental hospital, the very things they did to me just pushed those buttons again and again. I was overwhelmed with feelings of powerlessness to which the staff responded by abusing their power and making me feel more powerless. A more appropriate interaction would have been verbal support, which offered some understanding of the pain and an alternative way of coping with the pain. At the very least, some compassionate understanding of the trauma I'd suffered and even perhaps a hug would have been far more soothing and healing. However, that's probably not possible. After all, psychiatric settings have a paranoid feeling about touch. Even though psychiatry claims to be medical and in any medical setting touch is okay and even considered healing, psychiatry reacts with a paranoic phobia about it. Instead, they'd rather abuse those who have been abused and are trying to heal from that abuse." -P.R. Triggers and retraumatization can occur in both the physical and interpersonal environments. Examples include spread-eagle restraint of a rape victim or disbelieving the history given by a survivor of incest. Because powerlessness is a core element of trauma, any treatment that does not support choice and self-determination will tend to trigger individuals having a history of abuse. People may re-experience the helplessness, pain, despair, and rage that accompanied the trauma. They also may experience intense self-loathing, shame, hopelessness, or guilt. Mentalist thought tends to label these negative effects of treatment in pejorative terms that blame the survivor: "He's just acting out," "She's manipulating," "He's attention-seeking." These labels are often communicated through the attitudes and language of staff, and become re-traumatizing in themselves. It is essential that we recognize the individual's behaviors as post-traumatic manifestations so that effective services can be provided to the survivor of trauma and so that re-traumatization can be avoided. Addressing Mentalism in Service Organizations Most clinicians enter the mental health field in response to an inner conviction that people matter and that helping each other is important. Yet upon graduation, most of us are thrust into service organizations that have been built upon bureaucratic or financial imperatives and the expectation that mental health services will enforce social control. Often, clinicians find that the goal of providing quality service to individuals has been superceded in these organizations by the goals of generating paperwork or revenue. In these settings, clinicians are at risk of becoming estranged from the core values that give their work meaning and life. Alienation from values and disappointment in "the system" cause many clinicians to burn out and to become hardened in the cynical, mentalist beliefs that pervade these organizations. Often, clinicians will feel pulled by organizational or group dynamics to use pejorative terms, express pessimism and contempt for our clients, or act in a restrictive or punitive manner. Each clinician must take personal responsibility to resist these very real forces in our work. Despite organizational pressures, we can establish the clear expectation for ourselves that we will treat the people we serve with dignity and respect, and that caving in to discrimination and scape-goating of clients is never "OK." This does not necessarily mean that we can personally make up for systemic deficits such as gaps in the continuum of services or inadequate resources; in most instances we cannot. However, no matter what the circumstance, we can endeavor to approach people with empathy and genuine concern, and treat our clients as we would like to be treated. We must also find the courage to openly confront discrimination when we find it. Mentalism, like racism or sexism, is abuse. We cannot underestimate the damage that is done to individuals when mentalist attitudes dominate service delivery. "At one time, I worked with a team in which two team members were clearly invested in a mentalist view of the people we served. Whenever I made suggestions about client-directed ways to address our clients' needs, these team members typically responded "We've already tried that," "That won't work," "You're just being manipulated," "He's just a sociopath," "She can't do that," "He's not ready," "People never really change," "Don't be so naïve." Other team members allowed these responses to go unchallenged. As a result, we consistently left these meetings feeling embittered and discouraged about our work, and our team process was constantly overshadowed by this judgmental, angry, and punitive attitude. Not uncommonly, I was approached after the meeting by other team members who offered support for my suggestions, but because this support never occurred within the group, I continued to be alienated and abused by the team, much as our clients often said they felt. Needless to say, we were not effective in helping many people, and the prevailing mean-spirited attitude detracted from all our work as a team. Despite the fact that I had been hired into a position of leadership as team psychiatrist, I found that I was powerless to change the long-standing tradition of cynicism and mentalism in this group. My refusal to share in that negative attitude made me a traitor to the group and a new target for attack in a parallel process that I likened to that observed in psychotherapy supervision." -C.K. To change this situation the group needed two things: support from leadership and support from within the team. Management needed to provide supervision to the team members who had adopted a cynical, mentalist attitude to clearly communicate that discrimination of this sort would not be tolerated. They needed clear feedback about the deleterious effect that their negativity had on their performance as professionals and guidance to establish and implement a plan for amelioration. Clear policies were also needed that included "zero-tolerance" for mentalist discrimination. Just as employees would hopefully be dismissed for disparaging sexual or ethnic remarks, staff who are entrenched in negative stereotypes, attitudes, and beliefs about the people we serve need to be removed from service organizations to keep them from harming clients and destroying organizational morale. The team also needed input from the team members who continued to have hope and respect for our clients. Their silence was taken within the group to be tacit agreement, and the unspoken message was that mentalist prejudices were the accepted standard of the group. Simply to affirm hope and positive values, to question the position of the cynical members, or to express agreement with an alternative approach would have greatly diffused the power of the highly vocal, angry, and vindictive team members. This example illustrates the important role of the bystander in the perpetuation of mentalism. Bystanders wield great power both when they speak up and when they are silent. Silence in the face of injustice or abuse is a subtle but very real form of discrimination. It allows the abuse to continue and gives the impression of support. Often people keep silent because they correctly perceive that they will become the next object of attack if they intervene on behalf of a person receiving services. These attacks can admittedly be vicious and can include slander, libel, verbal and physical abuse. However, we need to consider the impact of our silence. Supporting discrimination through silence is really no different than perpetrating the injustice. Ultimately, it commits us all to living under the tyranny of people who have chosen to relinquish their values and ideals. Combating discrimination requires courageous and decisive interventions that frighten most administrators. Discrimination cannot be corrected through "compromise" and "gradual philosophical change." When we find discrimination, it needs to be incisively eradicated. Partial solutions to discrimination do only one thing - they perpetuate the injustice. One cannot address the objectionable message of separate restrooms by moving "separate but equal" facilities closer together. The U.S. could not address the injustice of denying African-Americans their right to vote by offering individuals "2/3 of a vote." One cannot "ease" people into using respectful language by tolerating mentalist or racial slurs. Equality means equality, respect means respect, and anything less is discrimination and oppression. Moving from "Power-Over" to "Power-Sharing" Eradicating "isms" like mentalism requires that we change our view of power relationships. We must be able to envision an interaction between people that is based on mutual personal empowerment and respect rather than one person being "on top" and the other "on the bottom." Such a relationship has been termed "power-sharing." These relationships acknowledge the strengths and limitations of both parties, and build upon common goals, values, and concerns through a process of collaboration and negotiation (30, 31, 32). In power-sharing clinical relationships, the clinician no longer decides what is best for the recipient of the service. Instead, the individual receiving the service defines the goals and plans for recovery. The clinician's role is to assist the person to develop the plan and to facilitate its implementation. The power-sharing relationship acknowledges that the clinician cannot make real decisions for the person in treatment, since that person will by necessity leave the clinic at the end of the appointment and make innumerable independent personal decisions every day that determine the outcome of her/his life. The clinician acts much like a consultant to the recipient, providing information, treatment options, access to community resources, support, insights, and feedback that the person can draw upon in his/her own search for recovery. A common misconception about the process of reducing discrimination based on mentalism is that amelioration means role reversal. It is often assumed that those who were power-down, once empowered, will assume an oppressive stance towards people who formerly were power-up. This misconception causes many people to retreat from addressing the issue of discrimination. Power-sharing does not mean that clinicians must obey the dictates of the person served, and does not obligate the clinician to do anything unethical or illegal. A part of the clinical relationship is open, respectful feedback and communication; this includes honest disclosure about why a clinician may feel unable to support a particular course of action. When confronted with a request that s/he cannot support, the clinician needs to be constantly vigilant for encroaching mentalist attitudes. The clinician may feel irritated or offended by the request. In these circumstances, it is only human to react in a judgmental or punitive manner. For example, when a client requests a prescription for Valium, it is common for clinicians to flatly refuse and label the person as "drug-seeking." In a power-sharing mode, the clinician would earnestly explore the reasons for this request. S/he would use this opportunity to discuss the underlying reasons for the refusal, including concerns about the person's health and the risk of addiction, the potential for creating more medical problems for the person, legal concerns, alternative means of managing anxiety or insomnia and so forth. Ultimately, the clinician might express genuine regret that s/he feels unable to fulfill the person's request. Though the person's wishes are not fulfilled, such discussions generally communicate the clinician's genuine concern and conscientiousness regarding the person's care. In my experience, this virtually always deepens the trust and respect within the clinical relationship, and sets the tone for a collaborative search for treatment alternatives. Within the context of this sort of trusting relationship, people even sometimes withdraw their request in response to the provider's concerns. At times, clinicians claim that a recipient is unwilling to work on treatment goals or "acts out" in response to the clinician's refusal to support the person's plan. In the majority of these cases, the authors have found that the clinician has set up the conflict by treating the person in a disrespectful, judgmental, or dismissive manner. For example, one community psychiatrist in our acquaintance complained bitterly about the "abusive behavior" of "borderlines" admitted to the inpatient unit. It was later learned that this man denied people's requests for Tylenol for pain, refused them any medications for sleep, and told people that they were "manipulative" for coming to the hospital. It is unfortunately common for clinicians to justify mentalist behavior by stating that the person coming for services was demanding, angry, or "needed limits." It is important to keep in mind that it is always the clinician's responsibility to initiate the respectful tone of the clinical relationship and to cultivate power-sharing in that relationship. When respectful communication breaks down, the first thing the clinician should ask her/himself is whether s/he has inadvertently expressed mentalist prejudices that may have disrupted the therapeutic process. If this does not seem to be the case, then one can consider whether the individual receiving the service is having difficulties with interpersonal communication. Cultivating respectful communications with people in the presence of conflict may entail listening respectfully to the person's anger and frustration, despite its unpleasantness, and helping the person to express these feelings assertively and effectively. The Benefits of Power-sharing There are many benefits for the clinician who chooses to confront mentalism in his/her thinking. Most importantly, striving for equality and respect in our clinical relationships brings us closer to the values that attracted most of us to clinical practice in the first place. It refocuses us on relationships as the vehicle to healing and on service to others as our most important goal. By doing this, power-sharing relationships restore our core values and express our integrity. Part of the power-sharing relationship involves sincere efforts to understand, rather than label or judge, the perspective of the person served. From that understanding, the clinician and the person seeking services then collaborate to devise solutions that are uniquely suited to the person's needs. This creative process can refresh us and help us to learn and grow professionally. Power-sharing also increases the efficacy of clinicians. Very often our energy as clinicians is frittered away in efforts to get people to conform to our expectations or fit into our idea of a helpful program. We lose sight of the fact that each individual has unique needs and priorities, and that, unless the person feels that these are being addressed, s/he is unlikely to be motivated to participate in the service. For example, the staff of one program spent an inordinate amount of energy persuading and pressuring people to attend all the groups at day treatment. They found that voluntary participation was much better when they changed the program to offer a wider variety of options that reflected consumer preferences and included opportunities for work. Staff found they had much more time to work creatively and individually with people when they no longer felt they had to be "traffic cops." In relationships based on power-sharing, dilemmas and responsibility are also shared. Clinicians can relinquish the role of having to prescribe the right solutions for people, and can instead discuss pros, cons, options, and recommendations with the empowered consumer. The person receiving the service is involved directly in developing the service plan. Essentially, this approach takes informed consent one step further into the realm of informed decision-making. In the former, the clinician arrives at a conclusion about the best treatment, and seeks the person's permission to proceed. In the latter, the clinician prepares the recipient to make his or her own decisions regarding treatment. The clinician is free to share his/her concerns and misgivings about the services with the person, and to receive as well as give support. Informed, collaborative decision-making protects both the recipient and the clinician. By fully addressing the possible outcomes of treatment decisions, power-sharing reduces the risk to the person receiving services. The well-informed consumer can actively reduce serious consequences of medication side effects through vigilance and early intervention. Likewise, one can plan proactively for possible crises, reducing risk by paving the way for prompt intervention in an emergency. The clinician is protected from some of the most common allegations of psychiatric malpractice. Such allegations often stem from poor communication between clinician and client and inadequate discussion of possible side effects of medications. Contrary to popular belief, perfunctory informed consent forms do not always stand up to legal scrutiny. Collaborative service planning, respectful relationships with people, and thoughtful documentation remain the most effective protections against liability claims. A focus on equality, dignity, and respect in mental health services will help people to heal. Andrew Phelps, an activist and originator of the Accountability movement, has called this process the restoring of "equities" (33). He believes that the traumas that caused people's emotional distress, compounded by the traumas and disenfranchisement they experience as a result of mentalism, are the real source of psychiatric disability. As noted earlier, post-traumatic effects of trauma can include hopelessness, feelings of worthlessness, apathy, anger, nihilistic beliefs, withdrawal, and loss of trust. To begin to heal, the individual must begin a process of overcoming these injuries. However, the nature of post-traumatic effects makes it difficult to embark on this process. For example, it is hard to invest effort in one's life if one feels worthless or to connect with other people if one cannot trust. Dr. Phelps' model suggests that services and organizations need, above all, to help people to overcome the effects of trauma. To do this, they must express hope and affirm the inherent value and dignity of the person, irrespective of his/her current difficulties. They need to convey respect and support the person's ability to direct the course of her/his own life. They need to model acceptance and empathic understanding of differences between individuals. They also must preserve accountability for the quality and impact of interpersonal interactions within the organization. Dr. Phelps believes that this approach is most likely to overcome individual, systemic, and societal barriers to recovery. When organizations or services fail in these goals, they tend to reinforce post-traumatic effects. For example, pejorative labels support feelings of worthlessness, mentalist prognostication erodes hope, and unilateral treatment planning undermines trust. Such experiences tend to be re-traumatizing for people who are attempting to address recovery and only worsen their distress. Summary Clinicians are not immune from the pervasive effects of prejudice against people who have received psychiatric labels. Unfortunately, negative stereotypes and assumptions are often interwoven with clinical practice, language, procedure, and even the physical environment. Generally, we are unaware of our prejudices and of the injury we cause the people we serve through our mentalist beliefs, and clinicians often give various justifications for the way things are traditionally done. A good rule of thumb to evaluate for the presence of discrimination is to reflect on what our own response would be if we were to receive the same treatment. It is important that we confront discrimination when we find it, in ourselves and in others. As painful as it may be to consider our role as perpetrators of mentalism, clinicians must come to grips with both our personal mistakes and our participation in a profession that historically has done much to abuse the people who came for care. In truth, we need to undergo our own process of healing and recovery in order to unlearn judgmental behaviors, controlling attitudes, and negativistic belief systems. In an ideal world, clinicians would be able to offer unlimited resources to their clients in organizations in which service was the first priority. In reality, resources are generally insufficient to people's needs and service takes a back seat to fiscal and administrative concerns. Despite these real and serious barriers, each clinician has a professional responsibility to be accountable for the quality of her/his interactions with people seeking services. Each of us can choose to communicate hope, concern, and respect. We can be dependable and trustworthy. We can take responsibility for questioning our assumptions, admitting the limits of our knowledge, and broadening our skills. A client-directed, egalitarian approach to services will have many benefits including improved efficacy, reduced risks, greater creativity, and greater satisfaction for both clinician and consumer. In doing all these things, we will improve the quality of our lives as well as those of the people we serve. 1. Chamberlin J On Our Own: Patient-Controlled Alternatives to the Mental Health System New York: McGraw-Hill, 1978. 2. Pierce C "Offensive Mechanisms" in The Black Seventies, F.Barbour, ed., (Boston:Porter Sargent, 1970), 265-282. 3. Deegan P Spirit Breaking: When the Helping Professions Hurt The Humanistic Psychologist 1990b, 18(3):301-313. 4. Ridgeway P The Voice of Consumer in Mental Health Systems: A Call For Change Burlington: Center for Community Change Through Housing and Support, Trinity College of Vermont, 1988. 5. Blaska B "First Person Account: What It Is Like to Be Treated Like a CMI" Schizophrenia Bulletin 1991, 17(1):173-6. 6. Lovejoy M "Expectations and the Recovery Process" Schizophrenia Bulletin 1982, 8(4):605-609. 7. Deegan P "Recovering Our Sense of Value After Being Labeled" Journal of Psychosocial Nursing 1993, 31(4):7-11. 8. Deegan P Spirit Breaking: When the Helping Professions Hurt The Humanistic Psychologist 1990b, 18(3):301-313. 9. Unziker R "To be a mental patient" 1984 10. Harding CM, Zahniser J "Empirical Correction of Seven Myths about Schizophrenia with Implications for Treatment" Acta Psychiatr Scand 1994, 90(suppl 384):140-146. 11. Harding CM, Zubin J, Strauss JS "Chronicity in Schizophrenia: Fact, partial fact, or artifact?" Hospital and Community Psychiatry 1987, 38(5):477-486. 12. Harding CM, Zubin J, Strauss JS "Chronicity in Schizophrenia Revisited" British Journal of Psychiatry 1992, 161 (suppl. 18):27-37. 13. Anthony WA, Rogers E, Cohen M, Davies R "Relationships Between Psychiatric Symptomatology, Work Skills, and Future Vocational Performance" Psychiatric Services April 1995, 46(4):353-358. 14. Anthony WA, Jansen MA "Predicting the vocational capacity of the chronically mentally ill: Research and implications" American Psychologist 1984, 39:537-544. 15. Cramer, JA "Compliance With Medication Regimens for Mental and Physical Disorders" Psychiatric Services February 1998, 49(2): 196-201. 16. Paykel ES "Psychotherapy, Medication Combinations, and Compliance" Journal of Clinical Psychiatry 1995, 56(suppl 1):24-30. 17. Aquila R, Weiden PJ, Emanuel M "Compliance and the Rehabilitation Alliance" Journal of Clinical Psychiatry 1999, 60(suppl 19):23-29. 18. Frank E, Kupfer D, Siegel L "Alliance Not Compliance: A Philosophy of Outpatient Care" Journal of Clinical Psychiatry 1995, 56 (suppl 1):11-16. 19. "Tardive Dyskinesia: Summary of a Task Force of the American Psychiatric Association" American Journal of Psychiatry October 1980, 137(10):1163-1172. 20. Munetz MR, Benjamin S "How To Examine Patients Using the Abnormal Involuntary Movement Scale" Hospital and Community Psychiatry November 1988, 39(11):1172-1177. 21. Leo RJ "Movement Disorders Associated with the Serotonin Selective Reuptake Inhibitors" Journal of Clinical Psychaitry October 1996, 57(10):449-454. 22. Dubovsky SL, Thomas M "Tardive Dyskinesia Associated with Fluoxetine" Psychiatric Services September 1996, 47(9):991-993. 23. Ahmed S, Chengappa KNR, Naidu VR, Baker RW, Parepally H, Schooler NR "Clozapine Withdrawal-Emergent Dystonias and Dyskinesias: A Case Series" Journal of Clinical Psychiatry September 1998, 59(9):472-477. 24. Craine LS, Henson CE, Colliver JA, et al "Prevalence of a history of sexual abuse among female psychiatric patients in a state hospital system" Hospital and Community Psychiatry 1988,39:300-304. 25. Bryer JB, Nelson BA, Miller JB, et al "Childhood sexual and physical abuse as factors in adult psychiatric illness" American Journal of Psychiatry 1987, 144:1426-1430. 26. Jacobson A, Richardson B "Assault experiences of 100 psychiatric inpatients: Evidence of the need for routine inquiry" American Journal of Psychiatry 1987, 144:908-913. 27. Doob D "Female sexual abuse survivors as patients: avoiding retraumatization" Archives of Psychiatric Nursing, August 1992, 6(4):245-251. 28. Harris M "Modifications in service delivery and clinical treatment for women diagnosed with severe mental illness who are also the survivors of sexual abuse trauma" Journal of Mental Health Administration, Fall 1994, 21(4):397-406. 29. Jennings A "On being invisible in the mental health system" Journal of Mental Health Administration, Fall 1994, 21(4):374-387. 30. Deegan P Spirit Breaking: When the Helping Professions Hurt The Humanistic Psychologist 1990b, 18(3):301-313. 31. Kisthardt WE, "A strengths model of case management: the principles and functions of a helping partnership with persons with persistent mental illness" in The Strengths Perspective in Social Work Practice, Dennis Saleebey, ed., (New York: Longman Publishing Group, 1992), 59-83. 32. Lazare A, Eisenthal S, Wasserman L "The Customer Approach to Patienthood" Archives of General Psychiatry May 1975, 32:553-558. 33. Personal communication.

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Rams rebuild: What would you do?. | 0 recs | Do you like this story? second RB hindsight 20/20, i would have found a solid backup running back. Turf Show Times by Ryan Van Bibber on Nov 28, 2009 8:43 AM CST reply actions He is terrible at play calling, but other than that nothing big jumps out at me. There are some things I didn’t like, but still believe were necessary, like releasing Torry Holt and some of the other veteran guys. But they did what they could with very little. I’m not sure if this was possible, but I would have traded down the pick. Even if we get pick 27 or 28, we get Michael Oher and other picks. I’d be happy with Oher and Lauranitus, plus other good players from the middle rounds, over Smith and Lauranitus, and Fletcher and Scott. The draft could have been handled better, although it wasn’t bad. I’m still scratching my head on a couple of rounds though. Fletcher, while I like him, was projected to go in the 5th round and we took him in the third. Foster was projected 6th or 7th round and Keith Null wasn’t expected to be drafted. I guess they went in with a plan to get these 7 players and they got them. Can't think of a good sig by Carneros on Nov 28, 2009 9:10 AM CST reply actions I think you nailed it for me But it’s not too late. We can still trrade down this year, unless we get a shot at Suh. I liked Loadholdtt last year too. I always said though I was fine with our first 2 if we couldn’t trade down. It is that 3rd, 4th, 6 and 7th that we should have gotten more picky with. by dbcouver on Nov 28, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions I meant 5th not 4th by dbcouver on Nov 28, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions Oher is a sure pick up. Would have went with Stafford. He has shown a lot of toughness through the last few weeks despite the mistakes. (Interceptions) They will notice and they will giggle. by papapegasus on Nov 28, 2009 9:51 AM CST reply actions couldn't have happened Detroit took him first overall. How about Sanchez? Turf Show Times by Ryan Van Bibber on Nov 28, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions I have to say... …not to boast or anything, but as someone who watches USC’s practices consistently(since 2007), and games (always),Mark Sanchez’ decision making has always been questionable at best. I can’t tell you how many times our coaches would tell him he missed someone or how many times we’d seen it in a game, wide open receivers get ignored for a check down. When Sarkisian (then OC) and Carroll said he wasn’t ready, myself and most Trojans agreed with the coaches. His scintillating performance against Penn State and his charisma are basically what his scouting grades were made of, but in this first year we’ve seen his decision making bite him with 4 and 5 interception games, rolling out and throwing off of his back foot into the hands of defenders many times. One season of poor play doesn’t make his career, but I’ve been MUCH more impressed by Matthew Stafford than by Mark Sanchez, despite similar numbers. Time will tell, but Trojan Nation wasn’t in Sanchez’ lap the way the media/ESPN were at the time of his decision. :16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions I'm glad someone else heard Sark say that Sanchez wasn’t ready. He had no incentive to say that considering the fact that he had just taken a HC job in the Pac 10. He said it because after working with him for the last couple years, he knew that the kid was REALLY not ready. He benefitted from the fact that it was really a poor QB class. by CaliRamMan on Nov 28, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions Yeah I heard it... …and because it was a poor class, I can’t fault Mark for not staying from a business standpoint. As far as a football standpoint, I couldn’t disagree with his decision:57 PM CST up reply actions I still wish him the best however... …he just needs to take care of the ball better. I hope Rex stays with:58 PM CST up reply actions 2009 Draft The Shurmer offense is troublesome, as was the decision to let Torry Holt go. How nice would it have been to have a route runner mentoring to our very young receiving core? No problem with Smith in R1, and JL was a steal in the 2nd. Coffee in Rd. 3 would have been nice; we are DOA without SJAX in there. This year lets bring in a QB like Jason Campbell for a 2 year contract so we can draft a DT, CB, OLB, RB,. we HAVE to pressure the QB and stop the run….just don’t see a Top 5 QB out there. So many needs so few draft picks… by searam on Nov 28, 2009 10:20 AM CST reply actions We're going to have some money... …we need to look at Free Agents on defense in particular. Any forthcoming pieces on that VanRam/3k? I agree with your statement however. If this is the year to go QB in the draft for the Rams, then we’re pretty screwed because no one has stood out IMO. :20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions Draft Brandon Gibson in the 5th instead of drafting Brooks Foster The name's Rams, St. Louis Rams. by Bond_007x on Nov 28, 2009 12:54 PM CST reply actions Well now we have both Can't think of a good sig by Carneros on Nov 28, 2009 1:03 PM CST up reply actions Something I would do right now Sign Cedric Peerman off Detroit’s practice squad. 5-9 210 4.34 40. Sounds better than anything we got behind SJax. He could even come in on 3rd and short! Can't think of a good sig by Carneros on Nov 28, 2009 1:47 PM CST reply actions Changes Would have gone back to the Jacob Bell Signing….I would have shelled out the extra cash and went after Faneca. Although, much older he is as consistent and experienced at the position that you could ask for. He would help out the LT and the C for the last two years and I say he has prob another 2 years of quality ball left. Would have made this transition through rebuilding not so drastic. Moving to more recently- the draft. I would have pulled a move-a la chargers. If it wasn’t obvious the Jets, Redskins, and the Bucs wanted Sanchez worse than a fat kid wanting a donut. If I could not made the trade that I wanted before my pick in the 1st round. I would have drated him and then dangled him for a bidding war. Although risky it was apparent the Jets would have given up picks. They were pretty confident in the fellas they had and were willing to give up picks. Stacking future and early picks is the way to rebuild. The law of averages is bound to provide you with some studs. Then with my pick I traded down I would have taken Oher or even JL earlier than he we could have gotten him. But since that didn’t happen, I would have started differently at the 3rd round. I would have taken DE Michael Johnson for Spags to develop. Then maybe Fletcher in the 4th if they were that high on him. But, in the 5th I would have taken OG Duke Robinson. An OG that plays with a mean streak and is known for opening holes for the RB. I would not have drafted Foster or Ogbannaya or Null. I felt that we could have claimed the RB and the QB off of waivers after the draft. I would have taken Captain Munerlyn in the 7th. Like they say, Hindsight is 20/20. by CaliRamMan on Nov 28, 2009 3:32 PM CST reply actions 2010 The rams should try to get Suh in the draft but if hes already taken then draft a QB. Jimmy Clausen looks great against Stanford. This is the year for a QB.People say the defensive lineman in the draft have great talent, so they should get their defensive tackle in the second round or free agencie(if Suh has been taken). by brians rams on Nov 28, 2009 9:52 PM CST reply actions No on Clausen Please! The guy is a trap. By the way, I also watched the Stanford game and he looked very average. I gave that credit to his receivers. Floyd and Tate, especially Tate deserve the credit. They made corrections to compensate for poorly thrown balls. Tate made more of any situation once the ball was in his hands. Plus, did you watch the last drive? Sacks with no timeouts?? He got exacly what he wanted from the defense, the safety shifted over to double Tate, so tell me how do you check down Floyd with one on one coverge in the end zone?? No safety help and you have Floyd one on one with a smaller DB. I’ll take that chance. Not to mention he actually beat his man. No on Clausen. by CaliRamMan on Nov 29, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions Good enough for me I was trying to find a way to slip out of the Clausen camp anyway. I’m for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Pike, Locker, etc. Ryan Mallet or Jerrod Johnson next year, if we strike out again. I wouldn’t be disappointed if we found another 1-2 year patch until we have a chance at the right franchise QB. by dbcouver on Nov 29, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 2010+ In all honestly, out of a 53 man roster, we have few NFL calibre players. Anybody disagree? I may miss a couple but I’m thinking; SJax, J Smith, J Brown, Lauranitis, Avery, Otogwe, Bartel, Josh Brown, Donnie Williams, Butler, Robinson, Amendola….? We have some average or mediocre players, and some have potential; Setts, Goldberg, Incognito, Burton, Ah You, Long, Vobora, Ryan, Gibson (2)….? And we’ve sure got a plethora of sub-par guys; Barron, Carriker, Bell, Gado, Darby, McMichael, etc. – Yecch! Other than that we have NO QB’s, no capable backups at RB, and our stalwart D-Lineman are getting older by the min. I don’t think Little or Hall will return. So speaking on a priority basis, gotta have a new QB (the single most important postion). Secondly, the current D-Line is by far and away the worst component of the team. They can pressure the passer and they can’t stop the run, other than that they’re OK. The weak D-Line frequently causes the secondary to get killed. Next, SJax will be dead in a couple years if we don’t get another capable back to help carry the load AND a quality TE to help block. So there’s where we stand. Filling those key positions has gotta be of paramount importance. We’ll just have to go with what we got everywhere else. by edpjr on Nov 28, 2009 10:12 PM CST reply actions You should have drafted Aaron Curry. by Fearless Frog on Nov 29, 2009 12:22 AM CST reply actions Yur right because Yeah we shoulda drafted Curry because Laurenitis only has 75 tackles, and that’s far too many. Wish we could have Curry’s 46. And Laurenitis’s 2 INT’s are useless, so might as well have Curry’s Zero INT’s. But Curry has a single sack more than Laurenitis, so I guess in hindsight he really was the one we should have drafted first. Who needs the best OT in the country, anyway? by CoachConnors on Nov 30, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions Not gonna complain about the past...... But for this offseason: Draft a DT, WR, OLB, or S with the top 5 pick, single out the guy in the draft who you think will be the QB of the future and make sure you get him in the late 1st or early 2nd rounds, then put together some other roster pieces with FA signings. The front office has been pretty good at evaluating talent thats on other teams, so lets stick with that. by hisTALLness on Nov 29, 2009 1:11 AM CST reply actions Safety? Seriously Safety? Why safety? As I’ve said before, Safety is the only position on the field that we don’t need to improve. We are already solid their with Togs and Butler, and Dahl. DT/DE, WR, I don’t see us going OLB with a top 5 pick, but maybe we miss Witherspoon so much will go with Weatherspoon, just for old times sake. I agree with the QB and FAs. The coaches seem to believe Null will develop nicely into an NFL QB, which is why I say take one mid-late rounds and let them compete their entire careers and whoevers better gets to start. I like Mallett but his completion percentage is way too low, especially in big games. He’s been below 54 % 6 times this season and two of those games he was in the mid 30 %s. That will never work in the NFL. If you complete 3 or 4 out of every 10 passes you won’t last long. Can't think of a good sig by Carneros on Nov 29, 2009 1:21 AM CST up reply actions To be honest the top two safeties in the draft could start and play better than what we currently have. NOT that I’d draft either one since we have greater need else where on the team… by RamsFan1979 on Nov 29, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions OJ? you think the top safety in the draft would be better then our FS OJ Atogwe? I seriously doubt that. by cardsfan49 on Nov 29, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions Mays or Berry would be an upgrade IMO You can also check video off Youtube to see some highlights. IMO, either would be a step up, but w/too many needs it’s not a luxury we can afford. by RamsFan1979 on Nov 29, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions Basically whichever guy in this draft they see as a game-changing monster of a player, I want them to get. We keep drafting high in these drafts and so far none of the guys can really take over a game (or come close to a pro bowl). So I want them to get the best player, pretty much regardless of the position. To keep atogwe we have to keep giving him top 5 safety money cause of the franchise tag, i dont think he is a top 5’er. Besides getting turnovers, i hardly ever see him making plays on the field. The guy’s not troy polamalu (dont want to look up how to spell his name), so lets not spend money on him like he is. If Berry blows us away in workouts and no DT is standing out, I have no problem taking him and letting atogwe walk. I’m less inclined to take a DE that early, something about that position screams bust to me. by hisTALLness on Nov 29, 2009 1:43 AM CST reply actions That is the beauty of it It is the position that is most in need, and now we have a coach how seems to get the most out of his DE’s. Look at the Giants DE during and after the Spags era. This is a postion on huge need and Dunlap is looking better to me each day. Damn you 3K…making me deviate away from my trade down thought process. by CaliRamMan on Nov 29, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions The more I think about it The more I think we should use our first 2 picks for D-line. Get aggressive towards FA QBs, and get multiple picks after Suh. by dbcouver on Nov 29, 2009 5:12 AM CST reply actions How do you propose we draft Suh and gain picks? IMO we either draft our first pick or trade back. We really don’t have a player we can trade for draft picks, or at least players we can afford to get rid of. by RamsFan1979 on Nov 29, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions Yes, yes I do I’ve argued into the ground my disagreement with the consensus that one can’t do both. I think we do have players (or a player) we can afford to get rid of, if the price is right. That, I’ve also made clear in other posts, but I don’t think a QB is worthy of the level of pick we’ll have in the first round. I also think by the time our 2nd round pick comes up any QB would again be too much of a reach. So I"d justify my seemingly unrealistic stances above with the very grounded, (IMHO) belief that we have still too many positions of need to not get the BPA or BTA. by dbcouver on Nov 29, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions Who? Little, Hall, Bell, Bulger…. Anyone else is worth less than what I mentioned or not worth us trading, IMO. If we can’t get Suh, who would be a starter, we then trade back. We can still get a worthy DL player, just not at the level where Suh is. As you so mastefully pointed out, we need too many positions to not trake back if we can… just not any of our current performers. by RamsFan1979 on Nov 29, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions As I also so mastefully pointed out I’ve argued that subject before. As far as whom I would target? Again ,as I so mastefully pointed out best player or talent available. I like D-line in this draft but I wouldn’t be opposed to QB OL LB TE WR CB…. I’m thinking I like that order too. But not at the expense of leaving obviously better talent on the board at any time. by dbcouver on Nov 29, 2009 8:18 PM CST up reply actions What players do you propose trading away for middle round picks? Just Jackson or do you think there’s others? Can't think of a good sig by Carneros on Nov 29, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions Jackson is the only one other teams may covet But you never know what another teams needs are. The point I was initially making was, that I believe we may have to find a QB elsewhere, as opposed to the first day of the draft. It’s hard to argue that anyone has value on a 1-10 team so, I think I’m not going to bang my head on that wall right now. by dbcouver on Nov 29, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions Jackson?!?! getting rid of him is absurd and redundant. So you get rid of him and Darby becomes our starter? Cause if he’s not we have to draft another starting RB. Jackson is our proven star and worth building the team around. Not to be mean, but you aren’t very good at making points….lol. I agree w/you about acquiring a QB, tho our choices are very limited. I’m still seeing Brady Quinn as our best option, which IMO means he’s the only option if we want vets. I like Garcia, but at 38 he won’t go a whole year w/out an injury so he’s a short stop gap at best. Claussen & McCoy look like they could go somewhere in the NFL, but IMO they won’t come in and start. Does that help or hurt us? Hard to tell at this point right? Heck, Null hasn’t really even gotten a shot yet, but I’m sure he’ll get one by season’s end. by RamsFan1979 on Nov 30, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions You make it sound like I want to get rid of Jackson I don’t want to get rid of Jackson. I don’t want to start Darby. If I did want to do those things you’d be winning your argument. You asked me who’d be tradeable and I answered. I’m not here to educate anyone. I don’t think I qualify. I’m not a wanna be GM. Just a fan. by dbcouver on Nov 30, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions I'm not here to argue with you or anyone for that matter. Like you, I am a fan. You stated Jackson is the only player another team would want, and couple that w/the ‘acquire more picks’ thought you can see where one would think you are saying we get rid of Jackson, no? I would still lke to know you’re idea of increasing our picks. by RamsFan1979 on Nov 30, 2009 7:47 PM CST up reply actions wide receiver looking back, they didn’t have many options at WR outside of the draft, and they made some nice moves to get some decent role players at that position. I still think they’ve got to consider a WR with their first two picks this year. Turf Show Times by Ryan Van Bibber on Nov 29, 2009 8:00 AM CST reply actions Here is what I think: Which is a greater need for us, QB or DL? We need both, and IMO, it’s too difficult to decide which is a greater need that we can fill thru the draft vs. FA. We look at QB FA and most can agree it’s SLIM picken’s at best. IMO, there is really only one option for a QB of the future, Quinn. IF the Browns pick a QB we know Quinn will be dealt or let go. Other than him anyone else out there [FA] that can possibly be the future? DL FA, for younger players, is on the light side as well. IMO a possible player could be Cofield from NY. He would be great in our system and obviously Spags knows him [he’s not having his best year, he played better under Spags… shocker]. He would make a great addition to our team, but we still need help which we could get thru the draft. There are many other FA players that could work as well. by RamsFan1979 on Nov 29, 2009 11:02 AM CST reply actions I fully agree with you on the QB But if a Franchise QB is unavailable you can’t just poop one out. I’m not convinced one will be available in the 2nd round. I don’t want to reach in the first if Suh is available. Hopefully, soon we will whittle down our needs so as not to be in this position year after year. by dbcouver on Nov 29, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions Too many variables to perdict what could happen. IF the Browns draft a QB, Quinn will be available. IF the Bucs pick Suh, we draft back for two DL’rs and try a draft day pick for Quinn [maybe the pick we received from the Eagles]. Who knows for sure what a team will pick, for example, prior to the draft, who would of thought Laurinaitis would fall to us in the 2nd. Anything is possible, yeah? by RamsFan1979 on Nov 29, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions I believe We should trade for Quinn or Kolb and draft Suh. Those’d be HUGE moves for this organization and cover so, so much of your deficiencies within 2 years of them getting here. SJ39 would be very helpful for Quinn’s development, so too Avery, Robinson and Fell, the likes of which he never had in Cleveland. And Jackson would have a couple years still left in the tank by the time Quinn/Avery/Robinson are really hitting thier stride. The timing of the development curve lines up well. by CoachConnors on Nov 30, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions The Rams need to address the QB situation this offseason.Its starting to become terrible. by brians rams on Nov 29, 2009 3:38 PM CST reply actions FA QB Does anybody know any good free agent quarterbacks this offseason? by brians rams on Nov 29, 2009 3:39 PM CST reply actions get a coach this guy should be able to give us a coaching win. by goaddygo on Nov 30, 2009 9:15 PM CST reply actions Glad I didn't answer this 2 months ago And probably will change my mind (maybe a couple times) between now and the draft. But I’ve jumped on the Suh bandwagon after the second Seattle game. Their ability to get after our QB maybe had as much to do with our injuries as their strenght, BUT their ability to bully our D line and run at will is a problem that will, as long as it exists, keep our team from being competitve. Teams with bad QB’s and great defense can be competitive. Teams with a mushy soft middle of the D line can’t. We can’t continue to be pushed around on defense. The lines are the most important area to shore up and the offensive line is well on its way with our new Center. Now it’s time for our new DT. Only if we acquire/trade for a stud DT do I move away from Suh at this point. QB = later round or trade. by CoachConnors on Nov 30, 2009 11:06 PM CST reply actions Plus, we have the middle set with our shiny new MLB and S's who can get it done. All we need to make the middle of the D a strong point is Suh. Our whole defense will benefit the way our whole defense benfitted from Lauranitis, even more so due to high level synergy by CoachConnors on Nov 30, 2009 11:08 PM CST up reply actions I would try to trade for a young QB with promise I like Brady Quinn, I like Kevin Kolb, Dixon for the Steelers looked competent (which REALLY frustrated me on the Null situaiton…why is there guy ready and ours isn’t…..its rhetorical, don;t answer) not so high on Campbell as I think he’s reached his ceiling where the others haven’t yet. by CoachConnors on Nov 30, 2009 11

For the location of the lots and names of land owners in 1875 view the 1875 Beers Atlas sheet for the Town of Cazenovia. <:xxii> Adams, C.H., gunsmith and farmer, born Madison County, 1848, PO Cazenovia; wire, Mary Hammond Adams, born Herkimer County 1851. Adams George M., farmer, born Dutchess County 1815, settled 1831, PO Cazenovia; wife, M. Adams, born Madison County 1829. Alvord, Job, retired farmer, born MA, 1800, settled 1805; 1st wife, Sukey Alvord, born MA, 1801, died 1864; 2d wife, Susan Alvord, born Onondaga County, 1831, died 1871, daughter Susan Alvord Smith, born Madison County 1833. Atkinson, James, born Yorkshire, England 1827, settled 1832 farmer, PO Cazenovia; wife S. Peck Atkinson, born Madison County, 1834; father William Atkinson, born England 1799 settled 1832 died 1871. Atkinson, John, miller, born England, 1825 settled 1831 owns and runs the Bingley mills, the oldest and best flooring mill in Madison County in operation 54 years; wife L.C. Morse, born Madison County 1830. Atkinson, William, miller, born England, 1800 settled 1831, died 1873. Atwell, George H., PO Cazenovia. Baker, Almon, farmer born Otsego County 1825, settled 1864, PO Cazenovia. Beebe, O.E., creamery, born Onondaga County 1846, settled 1876; wife, Hattie Webster, born Onondaga County, 1845, Mattie Beebe, born Onondaga County 1868. Bentley, Daniel, farmer, born Chenango County 1822, settled 1865, PO New Woodstock, 1st wife E.C. Burdick born Madison County 1820, died 1861, 2d wife M. Cresson, born Broome County 1832. Blair, Orrin A., farmer, born Madison County 1823, PO Cazenovia; wife, Eunice Allen born Madison County 1827, daughter, Annie A. born Madison County 1861. Blodgett, Arba, farmer, 253 acres, born Eaton, Madison County, March 20, 1807, PO Cazenovia; wife, Adaline Wilbur Blodgett, born Nelson, Madison County May 18, 1811, married February 24, 1831; 5 children. Blodgett, David, farmer, born MA, 1751, settled 1795, died 1826. Blodgett, Ozem, farmer, born MA, 1780, settled 1795, died 1836; wife; Mary Anderson, born MA, 1785, died 1862, daughter of William Anderson that settled in Madison County 1795. Bowers, S.L., farmer, born Madison County, PO Cazenovia. Brown, Charles, of Charles Brown & Son dealers in stoves, tin and sheet iron ware, born Madison County 1819, PO Cazenovia; wife, Helen White, born Onondaga County 1824, married 1843. Brown, Frank L., born Madison County 1857, PO Cazenovia. Brown, George H., born Madison County 1848, PO Cazenovia. Buel, Timothy, farmer, born Columbia County 1818, settled 1844, PO Cazenovia; wife A. Borden, born Madison County, 1826. Bump, John F., farmer, born Onondaga County 1812, settled 1844, PO Cazenovia; wife E.L. Savage, born Madison County 1837. Bumpus, H. (given as Bumpers), farmer, 127 acres, born Madison County 1838, PO Cazenovia; wife, Elizabeth Slocum, born Madison County 1837, married 1864; one daughter, Annie L. Bumpus (Bumpers), born Madison County 1869. Burgess, Celim, farmer, PO New Woodstock born on the place where he now lives May 23, 1805, 75 acres; 1st wife, Margaret Cady born Columbia County, NY, married 1834, one child; 2d wife, Mary J Daly, born Fabius (Onondaga County) married 1859. Burgess, Levy, farmer, born MA 1777, settled 1800, died 1863. Burton, Rodney, farmer, born Madison County 1817, 29 ½ acres of land; wife, E. Young Burton, born Madison County 1820, married 1840, two children; his father served in the war of 1812 under Captain Munger of the town of Fenner and his widow drew his pension until her death in 1879 aged 92. Cadwell, Patrick, farmer 10 acres garden, born Ireland, 1813 settled 1846, PO Cazenovia; wife, Bridget Clark Cadwell, born Ireland, 1813, 5 children. Chappell, Charles A., farmer, 110 acres, born Madison County 1851, PO Cazenovia; wife C.B. Woodard, born Madison County 1853, children 2. Chilson, M. Nichols, Mrs., born Albany County 1808, settled Madison County 1840, PO Oran. Clark, A.B., blacksmith, born Onondaga County 1811, a 1839, PO Cazenovia; wife, J.A. Dunbar, settled 1832. Clark, Elijah T., farmer gardener and fruit grower, born Madison County 1823, PO Oran; wife, Julia Chilson, born Orange County 1828, Married 1854: one son. His farm of 50 acres is noted for the Indian fortification and the many relics found thereon. 80 bushels of strawberries were picked and sold from this farm in 1879. Clark, F.C. Webster, born Madison County 1845. Clark, Isaac J., farmer, born Madison County 1844, PO Cazenovia. Colwell, James, farmer, born Herkimer County 1811, settled 1818, PO Cazenovia, wife A.R. Colwell, born Montgomery County 1814, died 1875, 3 children, - William, Samuel and Charles; 114 acres. Cook, C., auctioneer, 122 acres, born Madison County 1842, PO Cazenovia, (wife) Agnes Marten, born Albany County 1842, married 1862; 3 children. Great-grandfather, Jesse Cook, was captain in the revolutionary army, settled at an early date in Sullivan, buried in town of Cazenovia. Cook, C.J., residence (and PO?) New Woodstock, proprietor hotel, born Onondaga County 1837, settled 1840. Cook, Coonrad, farmer, born Montgomery County 1805, settled 1840, PO Cazenovia; wife, Annis H. Cook, born Madison County 1801. Cooper, Harrison, farmer, born Madison County 1841, PO Chittenango Falls; wife S.J. Beal, born England, 1847, married 1860; 2 children. Crandall, Perry, proprietor Cazenovia Hotel, PO Cazenovia. Cunningham, W.L., born MA 1809 settled 1827, farmer; wife, Sally Wales Cunningham, born MA 1810 settled 1830. Edwin Cunningham, born Madison County 1843, farmer. Dean, D.P., grocer and general merchandise, born Madison County 1829, PO Cazenovia; wife A.N. Latham, born Chenango County 1834. DeClercq, G.C., farmer born Madison County 1842, PO Cazenovia; wife, Nancy Richmond, born Madison County 1845. DeClercq, Henry, farmer born in Holland about 1760, settled Madison County about 1780 (could not have been 1780). DeClercq, Peter, farmer, born Madison County 1809, died 1873. Dewey, Charles, farmer, born Madison County 1857, PO Oran. Dewey, Marcus B., farmer, PO Oran, born Madison County 1808, died August 20, 1873; widow Ann N. Dewey, born Rensselaer County 1812, married 1832, 12 children, four of whom are dead; 90 acres. Dickson, J.S., farmer, born Onondaga County 1833, settled 1871, wife, Mary Foote, born Madison County 1839. Donnelly, N., farmer, born Ireland 1826 settled 1865, PO Cazenovia; wife, C. Ryan, born Ireland 1839; 6 children; 60 acres. Downer, William B., PO Cazenovia, farmer and gardener, 22 acres, born Fenner, December 12, 1815; wife, Harriet L. Fay, born Fenner, married February 26, 1839; 8 children, 3 dead. Drake, Alfred, farmer, born Madison County 1817, died 1872. Drake, Louisa, Mrs., widow of Alfred Drake, born VT, 1819, settled 1835. Estes, Joseph, farmer born RI 1800, settled Madison County 1808. Estes, William, farmer born Madison County 1808. Ferry, O.P., resident and PO New Woodstock, builder, born Madison County 1831; wife Helen L. Elmore, born Madison County 1842. Fox, Ehle, farmer, PO Cazenovia, 50 acres, born Montgomery County 1809, settled 1811; wife E. Lawrence, born Herkimer County 1820; 3 children living. Freeborn, L.W., residence and PO New Woodstock, farmer, born Madison County 1819; wife R.L. Morse, born Madison County 1828; 8 children. Fuller, A.J., farmer, 60 acres, born Fulton County 1850, settled 1865, PO Peterboro; wife H. Cooper, born Madison County 1852; 2 children. Fuller, Ebenezer, born CT, 1772, settled Madison County 1800, died 1858. Fuller, John H., sheep and stock dealer, born Madison County 1809, PO New Woodstock wife, S. Gardner, born Madison County 1827. Gage, Salmon, farmer, 56 acres, born Windham County, CT, July 28, 1794, settled 1803, PO New Woodstock; wife Irene Howe, born Windham County, CT; married December 29, 1819. Have celebrated the 60th anniversary of their marriage; 4 children. Gage, Sylvanus H., farmer, 3 acres, born New Woodstock, Madison County, March 26, 1826, PO New Woodstock: wife Samantha L. Ackley born Chenango County 1831, married February 19, 1850; one child. Gridley, Timothy, farmer, 191 acres, PO Manlius, born Madison County 1803; wife Elizabeth Hesler, born Montgomery County 1818, settled 1817, married 1838, six children - five girls and one boy; father Colonel or General Timothy Gridley, upon whose staff he served as Aide (War of 1812). Gunn & Tucker, general merchants, clothing, groceries, flour feed, &c., PO New Woodstock. <:xxiii> Harter, Philip, farmer, 81 acres, PO Cazenovia, born Herkimer County 1802, settled 1826; wife, Catharine Miller, born Herkimer County 1802, married June 10, 1821; 5 children living and 6 dead. Mr. Harter's grandfather was taken prisoner in 1776 by the Indians while engaged in his mill at Little Falls and held for six months, enduring much suffering. Hesler, Emery E., farmer 300 acres, born Cazenovia March 7, 1839, died October 4, 1870; wife Libbie M. Stewart, born Oneida, Madison County 1842, married March 13, 1868; son, Stewart E. born Cazenovia October 7, 1877. Hesler, Ephraim B., farmer formerly carpenter and joiner, born Canajoharie, Montgomery County October 28, 1811, 100 acres, settled 1814, PO Cazenovia, has been road commissioner; wife, Charlotte Mills Morris born Madison County 1808; married September 7, 1829; 3 children all deceased. Hesler, James A., farmer, 105 acres, born Madison County 1828, PO Cazenovia; wife, H.E. Phinney, born Madison County 1835; married Sept. 2, 1851; two children - Granger P. and Hollister E. Hoyt, J.B., retired born Oneida County 1806, settled 1852, PO Cazenovia. Jackson, E. Steele, farmer born VT 1775, settled 1798, died 1847. Jackson, E.S., farmer, born Madison County 1809, died 1878; widow, Mrs. E.S. Clough Jackson, born Madison County 1821, PO Cazenovia. Jackson, James, farmer born Madison County 1825 PO Cazenovia; wife, Charlotte Wilson, born NH, about 1824, settled 1848. Johnson, A.A. (given as A.O.), photographer, PO Cazenovia. Keeler, John S., dealer in pianos, organs, sheet music, &c. PO Cazenovia. Kenyon, John, farmer, born Onondaga County 1805, settled 1829, wife, Samantha Kenyon, born Madison County 1805, died 1859; sons, William Kenyon, student, born Madison County 1845, died 1879, Albert Kenyon, student, born Madison County 1839 died 1859, and Enos Kenyon, student, born Madison County 1851 died 1874. Kenyon, S. Spencer, professor, born Madison County 1842, PO Chicago (IL?). Kingsbury, A.J., manufacturer of cheese, owns the first cheese factory built in Madison County average annual product over 13,000 lbs; born Madison County 1848, PO Cazenovia. Mage, John Henry, farmer, 160 acres, born Madison County 1838, PO Cazenovia, 1st wife, T.M. White, born Onondaga County, married 1864 died 1867; 2d wife, L.D. Eastman, born Madison County 1837, married April 26, 1869; 1 child, Eastman, Philip J. (Philip J. Eastman), born Madison County 1837, married 1861, enlisted 1861 in the 8lst regiment, killed at Cold Harbor, 1864. (NOTE by DHW: John Henry Eastman's second wife was Elizabeth D. May, the widow of Philip J. Eastman, who was killed at Cold Harbor in 1864. JHM & LDEM may have had a son whom they named after PJE but they could not have been one and the same!) Maynard, Nathan, born MA 1789, settled 1800, died 1821. Maynard, S.E., retired farmer, born Madison County 1819, PO Cazenovia; wife, S.A. Sherman, born Eaton, Madison County, 1821. Miller, Charles B., undertaker, born Cortland County 1836, settled 1869, PO Cazenovia. Mitchell, Robert, farmer, 77 acres, born Scotland 1809 settled 1838; 1st wife, C. Harvey, born Madison County 1808, married 1831, died 1860, 2d wife, Trusty Morrisey, born Scotland 1815, married 1862, died 1873. Montague, Harriett L., born Madison County 1832 Montague, Harriet Abbey, Mrs. born Hartford, CT, 1796, settled 1801. Montague, Linus (given as Lennis), born Madison County 1799, died 1879 Montague, Oreb, born MA, 1759, settled 1780 (cannot be 1780), died 1825. Montague, Richard P., born Madison County 1825. Montague, Weed, born Madison County 1827. Morse, Gershom, farmer, born VT 1796 settled 1815; wife, Nancy Stone, born MA 1795, settled 1815. Morse, J.J., farmer and assessor, born Madison County 1846, PO New Woodstock, wife, A. Sales, born Onondaga County 1849. Morse, Jared, farmer, born Onondaga County 1812, settled 1835 died 1854. Morse, S.A., farmer, born Madison Co, 1834, PO New Woodstock. Morse, Silas E., carriage and sleigh manufacturer, PO New Woodstock, born Wallingford, CT, October 7, 1824, settled 1839, owns 56 acres. Has been postmaster wife; Sarah J. Bell, born Perry, NY, married October 30, 1851; one daughter. Mulligan, Michael, farmer, 41 acres, born Ireland 1814, settled 1842, PO Cazenovia; wife, Margaret Stapleton, born Ireland 1827, married 1853; 4 children. Nourse, Joel, farmer, born Washington County 1808, settled 1816. Nourse, Lysander, residence and PO Chittenango Falls, carpenter and joiner, born Fenner, August 30, 1816, was enrolling officer 1863-1864, now justice of the peace; wife, Sabrina M. Woodworth, born January 15, 1819, married February 24, 1842; eight children. four living, viz: Orlow L. born 1848, served in Union Army; Irving, born 1850, M.E. clergyman; Herbert J. born 1852; Charlotte, born 1854. Nourse, S. Harvey, farmer and supervisor, born Madison County 1834; wife C.S. Elmore, born Madison County 1833; daughter, Nellie T. born Madison County 1860. Page Reed, farmer and builder, born CT, 1810, settled 1815, died 1878. Paige, William H., farmer, 100 acres, born Manlius, Onondaga County, January 18, 1837, settled April 2, 1849, PO Chittenango; wife, Sophia C. Adams, born Madison County 1837, married November 4,1801; children 2. - Clara Paige, born 1864, Emma Paige, born 1865. Parslow, Joseph T., farmer, born Chenango County 1850, settled 1869, PO New Woodstock; wife Mary Burdick, born Chenango County 1841, married 1869, children 3. Perkins, G.H., farmer born Madison County 1844, PO Cazenovia; wife, Lucretia Niles, born Madison County 1844. Perkins, Stillman, farmer, born MA, 1796, settled 1803, died 1864. Perkins, W.L., farmer, cheese manufacturer and proprietor creamery (W.L. Perkins &Co.), born Madison County 1800, PO Cazenovia. Perkins, Willis C., firm of W.L. Perkins & Company, born Madison County 1804, PO Cazenovia. Pond, James, farmer, born Madison County 1840, PO Cazenovia; wife, Lucy Jane B. Pond, born Cortland County 1818, settled 1840; (children) Charles D. Pond, born Madison County 1863, Agnes S. Pond, born Madison County 1867. Pond, Munson, born Cortland County 1803, settled 1810, died 1871. Preston, E.A., musician and farmer, 70 acres, born CT, 1799, settled 1806; wife B. Bennett, born Onondaga County 1804, married 1823; children 2. Preston, Rufus, farmer and tailor, born CT, 1796, settled 1806. Putnam, Oscar F., PO Cazenovia farmer, 67 acres, born Madison County 1829; wife Elizabeth Hutchinson, born Madison County 1829, married 1851, children 2. - Osgood L., and Helen C. Roach, Michael, farmer, born Ireland 1821, settled 1850, PO Cazenovia 1st wife M Lynch born Ireland, 1821,died in Cazenovia 1854. 2d wife Julia Murphy, born Ireland 1820. Scott, Andrew, farmer, born Madison County 1834, PO Cazenovia; wife Margaret Durkan, born Ireland 1832, settled 1849. Scott, Henry, farmer, born Madison County 1828, PO Cazenovia; wife Polexina Scott, settled 1834. Scott, John, farmer, born Madison County 1839, PO Cazenovia; wife Mary Wish, born Madison County 1842. Scott, Samuel, farmer, born Ireland 1789, settled 1804, died 1876. Sherman, W.C., farmer, born Madison County 1828, PO Cazenovia; wife M. Goodrich, born Madison County 1835. Sherman, William, born VT 1796, settled 1820, died 1875. Snyder, O.P., farmer, born Madison County 1842, PO Cazenovia, was wounded in the late war wife; R.E. Doolittle, born Madison County 1849, married 1867; children 4. Stanley, Joseph, farmer, born Madison County 1803, PO Cazenovia. Mr. S. owns and lives upon the farm purchased and cleared by his father in 1802. Storke, William L., residence Cazenovia, attorney-at-law in State and United States Circuit Courts, born Coventry, Chenango County, December 31, 1808, settled October 4, 1857, has held office of notary public wife; Anna Perkins born CT, married November 27, 1846, died February 9, 1872; no children. Sweetland, Lyman, retired farmer, born Washington County 1800, settled 1809; wife Sarah Ehle, born Madison County 1810. Mr. S. has in his possession a crowbar used on the fortifications at Bunker Hill, and has many Indian relics. Talbott, Charles J., farmer, born Madison County 1842, PO Cazenovia. Talbott, Delia Wyman, Mrs., widow of Hiram T., born Oneida County 1821, settled 1825, PO Cazenovia. Talbott, Emily F., born Madison County 1839, PO Cazenovia. Talbott, Hiram, farmer, 75 acres, born Madison County 1803, died 1877. Taylor, Fred M., PO Cazenovia. Thompson, A.J., farmer, born Madison County 1836, PO Cazenovia; wife M. Sanders, born Chenango County 1851. Thompson, Gideon (given as Gid), farmer, born Madison County, PO Cazenovia. Thurber, Edward, farmer 160 acres, born Madison County 1804, PO New Woodstock; wife M. Bond, born Madison County; son John E. born Madison County 1843, PO New Woodstock. Tooly, Edward S., sailor and farmer, 10 acres, born England 1800, settled 1847, PO Delphi; wife Ann Tooly, born Watertown, NY, 1810; children 4. Tucker, (see Gunn & Tucker). Tucker, F.W., born Madison County 1856; wife Hattie Mosley, born Madison County 1857. Underwood, Charles K., Hon., farmer, 176 acres, born New Woodstock, September 4, 1848, PO New Woodstock, served as clerk in Assembly and was on of the committee on roads and bridges for 1878-1879; wife Mertie L. Stanton, born Onondaga County, February 7, 1853, married September 12, 1871. Underwood, Marcus L., farmer, supervisor and school commissioner, born Madison County 1796, died 1878. Underwood, Marvel, farmer and builder, settled 1790 (could not have been 1790), one of the oldest settlers from CT having a grant bearing the date about 1773, from George 3d. Watson Reuben, farmer, born Schoharie County 1771, settled 1816, died 1815. Watson, Sylvester, farmer and contractor, born Schoharie County 1809, settled 1816; wife, A. Burton, born Madison County 1814. Worlock, Cyrus, proprietor plaster and lime mill, born Madison County August 2, 1836, PO Cazenovia; wife Cynthia A. Webber, born Madison County March 21, 1834, married February 9, 1859. Wormuth, Abram, farmer, 112 acres, born Montgomery County 1809, settled 1827; wife, Mary A. Loucks, born 1812; children 4.

November 3rd, 2010, 07:46 GMT · By Marius Oiaga Adjust text size: I love some of the new features, well done. But have a bad experience with party chat during game play. When in a party and playing an online map. While wearing my Turtle Beach headset the game sound is cancelled when another player in my party speaks. Very frustrating when you listening for foot steps by the other team. Or not be able to hear where enemy fire is comming from until it's to late. This issue needs to be fixed pronto. Jeffinator01 What is happening to you whilst in party actually isn't Microsofts fault. It isn't a matter of asking them to fix it. After the update I noticed the same problem, before rudely being told I need to re-download the update which would ultimately give me "Big Rob's" problem. What to do is simple. Press the Xbox Guide button and move to the furthest right tab, "Settings" if I'm not mistaken. Two options down is "Prefrences", enter that option. Now go to "Voice" and up the game volume to 10. Press B and then the Guide button and your problem shoud be fixed. Voila. When I am in party chat and playing a game at the same time, my xbox freezes!! Also got problems that people are breaking up.. i have a probelm with my xbox360 i beyed dead island game the recuest a update when i prest yes it was downloading but when its come on half its gived me massage sayes reanter the game disk i did but now i want it back to the welcome page but it dosent i dont now how plz help Im still having bloody problems!!! My dashboard has changed to the new very white one, but it is still saying I have do download the update before i can go on Live. Unfortunately, this update starts to dowload but is then almost immediately cut off by an error message. Is anyone else having this trouble?? I do. yeah its doing the same thing to me yeah it did that to me for about 3 days. having trouble downloading new update, taking forever. any ideas why? this is happing to me to :( and i have 100 freinds on there! * ! Yea me to i say bunk it my xbox 360 wont do the update an so i CANT play xbox live why wont it work its just........stuck it wont complete the update :( can u fix this? The new update broke my real account, stopping me doing anything online, from playing games, to seeing my frindlist and it stopped me sending or getting messages. Ive had to pay for a seprate account, and Ive lost all the Left 4 Dead DLC i downloaded. Ive spent 70 mins on the phone and hopefully they said it will be fixed in a few days. I'm haveing the same problem Same problem a tier 2 expert at XCrap Live told me it would take 5 to 7 business days to resolve my account problems. Same if know anything that can help let me know @comment#5 I feel for you, I once did the phone thing with M$ tech for over a full hour because my xbox original DLs would no longer play. That was several months ago, still no banana. same problem, talked to xbox support but no help, have you gotten any solutions? wow greate The only problem i am having is that that instant queue in my Netflix keeps flipping ahead to a title in the middle. Anyone else having problems with the Netflix viewer? I'm having the same issue. You scroll about five movies into the queue then all of a sudden it shoots off to a movie halfway in. And there's no way to stop it. Very annoying. Immediately following the download of the update, my Xbox had a hardware failure. It has completely ceased to function with only an error screen appearing. I called customer support and they assured me that the update could not possibly have caused such an error and now they want me to pay for the repairs. However, if you search online, you will find that many other people are having this problem. Microsoft has most likely lost quite a few customers with this update. Same here....instantly after the Zune Video update (the main update worked ok) my console froze. Now on reboot I either get RROD (3 lights) or it freezes at some random time shortly after booting. Doesn't matter what I try to do or play. Thanks Xbox for bricking my console. Six year subscriber to Live wondering whether to buy another console or not. Nice Quality Control on your update there Redmond!!!! Mine bricked after the update too. It tries to boot up and freezes. I have had my XBOX 360 for at least 6 years and this is my second go-round with hardware failures. The first time, was fixed under warranty. Bad timing with this update - just before Christmas. You can be sure I won't be buying any new Xbox games. Same here... After the new update, my console has frozen 4 times and counting (2 times in game, 2 times in dashboard). 1 time the game just cut out and went black, and 2 times the screen pixels went out of whack. I've seen this before when my box got the RROD the very first time, "coincidentally" after an XBOX Live update... (I've had a total of 4 RROD since, we'll see if I hit lucky number 5 now.) exactly the same problem here, updated the dashboard, then my games started to freeze, then the dashboard, now it wont reboot at all,, just the 3 red lights??? nice We experienced this issue today. XBOX was working fine, downloaded the update, XBOX then locked up three times in a row, and on the fourth time, we got the dreaded ring of death. Thanks Microsoft! My console had the same failure immediately following the update. Called support and insisted on speaking to a supervisor. The initial supervisor "Vincent" told me that they were receiving frequent reports of issues like this on older consoles. He also said that he believed the issue resolution was going to "be in favor of the customer". I consistently get the 3 lights when trying to start my console now, it won't even produce the start up screen. @#8 True, it eventually in the course or down loading that update over and over render my hard drive dead and stinky................a 120 g filled w DLC. Microsoft killed my xbox and they don't care one way or the other. Immediately after download I got the RRoD i know i have the issue ever sins the update download was quick ,i had no problems ,looks nice thx micro Lucky mines being a duce The super bland and boring white menu screens have been posing another problem...I have a plasma TV and the burn-in is RIDICULOUS! I would be very pleased if the color was changed to something not so bright, or if we as gamers were given the option to customize the color Can't you with a theme?? The white background is horrible. Try using playon with a white on grey background!!! I had already downloaded the update and liked it. The following day I switched on my Xbox and was told I have to download it again. Confused, I did so, only to be told I had an error and it couldn't be updated and to check my internet connection. Which I did and halfway through connecting to Xbox Live, I'm told I have to update. Which I do and then proceeded to a vicious cycle of Xbox Live mocking me through telling me to do the same things repeatedly. As if that wasn't bad enough, all I'm left with is a technology pinata because it refuses to play games because they themselves need an update. I have two Xbox's a more modern albeit a non slim Elite and an older Premium both with the same problem. I keep getting disconnected when I try to play. When I try to reconnect sends the test connection message. When I click to test connection it signs back, but when I click the game I get disconnected right away. Been on this cycle ever since I got the update. I'm getting similar problems. Last night I was getting disconnected from Live every few mins, even when just sitting at the dashboard. Never used to happen before the new update. Anyone else getting that problem? I'm still having major plroblems. Since the upload, my xbox has been running extremely slow. Also, I can't play any live games becuase iether 1. it doesn't connect to live. If it does connect to live 2. It can't find any games. If it does find a game 3. it lags like crazy! This is a nightmare! Especially as Black Ops comes out next week! NBA Live 10 freezing This freezes since the update on the 1st. It is always at the same point....2mins 31 sec left in 2nd QTR. I thought that the update looked good but I tryed to download it and it keeps on telling me my connection isn't working so i go on the setting and look at my connection it said it was fine then i try it again and it does the same thing over and over My Xbox will not read any disks. I've gone through my whole collection and nothing will play. I called Xbox this morning and after 4 hrs of arguing my point they want me to pay for their screw up. was told more than 5 times that I am the only one with this problem and no one else has called in this specific problem. I tried canceling my xbox live and they are giving me some excuse that I have to call back later to do it. I am so irritated and irrate because of this and none of them care. I couldnt even get a phone number for higher managment because they wont give it to me. I have the same problem after updating to the new dashboard and playing black ops online for a little bit. I had a new black elite console and now it wont read any discs at all wont even eject. I have the same exact issue and was told the same thing by XBOX. They want $100 to fix the open tray error. I had to switch to PS3. I have had 4 360's in 4 years. enough is enough. just trried to download the flipping thing and wont do it! How * Ever since the update I can not sign in to Live on any of my accounts. I have 3. When I try to do a test connect it just says to add a wireless adapter. I have one and it's connected. I'm really annoyed!! I've had the same problems since I downloaded it and nothing has improved over the past two days. I still can't play online, I still can't download, and I still can't talk to my friends. i tried updating my xbox 2 days ago. after loading it, it says that it cant read the update from my storage device. what am i supposed to do?? I haven't been able to connect to effing live for almost two weeks, I've explained everything to the best of my verbal ability, and they tell me "it's a site update bug" Yet, I read about this and my 360 STILL CAN'T CONNECT. And trust me, it's not my internet. Hi: I lost every save, EVERY SAVE of the XBLA games, Scott Pilgrim almost complete and in a few seconds...Bye, bye all the progress... I'm really dissapointing with this update. After the update, any game I try to play online it tells me my profile is not allowed to log in. This is bogus!! I have a clean unmodded xbox. My Gold account is current. Everything was fine before the update. Why is my friends list missing? Why can I not send messages?!! Cache clearing does not do anything!!! I have this problem and when i got through to xbox support they told me that one that have no idea what has happened and also that the update should not have been released until the 4th of November and not the 1st *WORKAROUND* I had this exact same issue and tried all of the random fixes I saw around the net, even called Live support which was no help at all, except he gave me the clue that my Gold status didn't seem to be active. Checking in my email history I couldn't remember exactly when I renewed and I'm pretty sure it was in April but I have no proof and my current status said member since 11/2010 and ended 11/2010. Seems odd that my membership would expire JUST as the new update came out. I also saw on a Live forum someone talking about having a "free" account due to some glitch so I wonder if I was benefitting from that same glitch and the update fixed it. So I took a chance and decided to add some Gold time to my account. Unfortunately I couldn't do it through the console due to some glitch. So I bought a 3-month membership card at a local store. Entered the code and now I have all my friends back and can play online. I'm going to call Live support and advise them of the fix and see if they can trace payment info in my history to credit the time I'm missing but even if that doesn't get resolved, at least I have my friends back and can play online again without losing my gamerscore or points! I hesitate to call this a fix due to the variables in my story... YMWV is all I can say based on having tried many weird ideas people have posted to fix this problem. Xbox's customer service is a joke!! They make you go their these step that they know won't take care of the issue. then they call you a liar when you tell them others have the smae problem. Their update has rendered my xbox useless and they want me to pay for the damage they caused with their half-assed attempt at firmware updating. You guys have really screwed up! This is my 2nd xbox that has been damaged! This is ridiculous! The 1st died with the 3 red lights. My current xbox your fk'in update killed it. You people in Microsoft better get your act together and cover the costs of your screw up or you will have a class action lawsuit on your hands!!! The Problem i have is a case of i've downloaded content, but it's not showing that's even downloaded onto my xbox, i've paid for this. It also doesn't show me my active downloads and doesn't tell me when something's finished downloading (If it's even downloaded). I'm very unhappy. I have an xbox 360 elite model and an arcade model both have xbox live (different accounts; one for me the other for my son). The elite said it needed a system update and performed it with no issue. Then when I logged into my xbox live account it prompted me for an xbox live update (the one mentioned here; Nov 2010). It appeared to go through the update fine, but then came up with the one blinking red light and a system error message which I tried to get off the screen. I guess I took too long reading all the different languages saying "system error contact microsoft support" because the screen went blank and I was unable to get video ever again. Figuring it was an issue between firmware of the HDD versus console, I updated my hard drive on my son's console with no problems. Then I updated my son's HDD on his console with no problems. I reinstalled my HDD to my elite console, but still nothing (no vid, one blinking red light). Followed the microsoft help dialogue (disconnected all peripherals) but to no avail. I'm now the proud owner of a bricked elite. Sad that the arcade is a better console than the elite. my 360 elite will not update i get and status code of 31430000308004028007045D and tells me to test my connection but when i do that it makes me update I have the same status code. your the only one other then me ive found with this code. my console is doing the exact same thing. Did you find a resolution to this yet? I personally am having issues with battle field bad company 2. I will sign into x box live then click play bbc2 and as soon as i git to the title screen it kicks me off of xbox live. So then I sign in which I have gold btw... And then it says my profile lacks permession to play the * thing when I used to play all the time before the update. Not to mention they erased all!! of my friends and dowloaded conent. This is utterless B>S Why did they have to go and screw everything up? Do not try to fix things that are not broken. Do these people really think any of us gave a flying f bomb about the background color of our dashboard? Jesus if they were going to introduce the kinect that is fine. But just introduce the damned thing. Problems occur when to many people are trying to do to many things at once. I am very dissapointed with this update what the hell did they fix...it is still not downloading... seariously Updated 2 days ago. Wasn't too pleased about the blinding white menus, but hey if microsoft wants to dress up like the wii, whatever. Since the update everything seems to run fine except fr the party and chat. For some reason I can't join any of my friends parties and it wont connect them to me. Quite a few of my friends have the exact same problem. I'm honestly not impressed with this update. I have the console freeze up with fable 3 on my elite. it happens about the same time in playing all the time. about 1-3 mins in. I even tried not being connected to live. Not all the issues have been resovled. I personally am no without friends on my list (i know loner) but i did friends before the update and cannot play online with a gold membership. Got exactly the same problem! Sort of glad I'm not the only one though! Am still waiting for an e-mail from Microsoft after logging the problem but it's been the same for a week now! I'm having this exact same issue. Called Live support on Tuesday and after an hour on the phone my account is still pooched. Notice it says I'm a gold member though it says ive been a member from and until the current month (11/2010). The agent I spoke to thought at first my account had expired though im pretty sure im only due in april of 2011. Also never saw the Terms of Use when I first updated. Microsoft agent thought I stuck as a child account but couldn't be sure. Anyways... still no resolution. My system crashes sporadically. I get white noise at full volume then a white checkered pattern across the screen. I don't have to be in a game for this to happen. Sometimes when I reboot the system I get a 3/4 red ring. My system was the day before the update and I don't think it's a coincidence. I got the same problem as you Banjohn :/ As soon as I start a game (I've tested demos, xbox live arcade games and normal games) and it crashes within a few min :( Also sometimes when I reboot the system I get the 3/4 red ring. I haven't had any problems at all before the update. And like Tom I've also updated Zune video. Same exact thing happened to me on my 360 Elite! I play any game and after 5min-3hrs it crashes/freezes and a loud weird sound, checkered screen, my controller dosen't stop vibrating, and no RROD! I got RROD once but I fixed it (Towel Trick), but this keeps happening! Never a problem BEFORE UPDATE... Hey bud. The problems with the update arent over. I am logged out of my account then it signs me in automatically. I am also finding that its takes me ages to get into Halo Reach lobbies – so maybe its affected my connectivity to other players!?!?!? I’m sooo annoyed! PS3 here I come! I have not been able to download this f***** thing its driving me nuts the status bar just sits ther 15 mins goes by and a box pops up saying unable to download Does anyone have any suggestions to what to do? Email me at [email protected] War Cam Eagle everything gets pixeled out within 10 seconds of startup,never had that problem before the update very annoying now i have an xbox i cannot play! as i just bought blackops,fable3 and new vegas. i guess ill go back and swap them for thier ps3 copy as ive never had a problem with my ps3 my video streaming has been extremely affected. Even with .wmv files of a reasonable size ( I just spent a good part of an hour going through xbox's support line explaining to them that my hard-drive worked fine before the new fall update. And now my hard-drive is just a fancy paper weight. This is my second console through microsoft the first suffering from red ring of death. They also tell me im the only one experiencing any problems with the update. evidently this is far from true. in all seriousness is there any legal action that can be pursued? i just want a working product!!!! i keep getting an error saying unable to connect to xbox live, plus wen i want to go live with some of my games it keeps saying xbox live disabled and get error codes, this has never happened before not since this crappy update. My xbox was working perfectly fine with FIFA11 before the update. Didn't use it for a few days, bought Dead Rising 2 to play, switched the console on 3/11/2010 to play my new game and the update was available. Installed the update no problem, pretty quick. Start to play DR2 and get about 30 seconds into the first part with the motorcycle arena and it freezes, then shuts off. I turned it back on and it's got RRoD. Phoned Microsoft and got the usual bull that it couldn't have been the update, despite there being no problem for the near-three years I've had the thing. They finally agree to fix it but I'm still without my console for three weeks when two of the biggest games of the year are due out within weeks of each other in Black Ops and Assassin's Creed Brotherhood. Add to that I only just renewed my Live membership and I lose nearly a month of that too. the problems for the update is definatly not fixed. when i log on i am presented with a pop up for the update. when i press yes update me it goes to the first loading screen and stays in the first stage until another popup appears telling me i need to test my connection and when i do it says that im fully connected having the same issue..I have tried the USB, no luck. contacted Xbox Support.. got the rhetoric yesterday about 'high volume of downloads'.. Installed the new update today, got 4 game freezes now, tried to turn it back and got the RROD. After reading the xbox forums about this, it seems as though I'm not the only one who's having this problem!!! Immediately after updating my console I was unable to play COD. My screen looked liked a snow globe. Then within 48 hours I received a E74 error. I cannot help but feel the updated is related to the e74 error. Dwayne Yeah, I had the e74 error as well, after the 3/4 red rings and constant random in game freezes. So far like the xbox 360 updates but the netflix program is not as user friendly as it once was. Can't read the descriptions (letters too small), can't rewind movie (it just restarts the movie) and can't skip episodes on tv streams. I think they still have some work to do on this. Their seems to be problem with netflix's server because every night in the last few days around 1:00pm est we loose connection. Hope this can be fixed soon. skippydo1 NY if you are having trubble downloading the update like i was go to follow the directions and save the file to a usb drive then put it in ur xbox and follow the directions. hope this helps. I have an Xbox 360 that came back from warranty work more than two years ago and had no problems with it at all since then. It has only been worked on by Microsoft and has no type of aftermarket items on it at all. On Saturday November 5 I turned on my Xbox 360 to play Tiger Woods 2010 and saw that The Xbox wanted to do an update. I started the down load and had no problems. The end-user licensing agreements came up and I accepted it. Now I used a wireless connection to down load the update and the router is less than five feet away from antenna to antenna with no obstructions in the way. Now I played my game that day and had no problems with it. Now today Sunday November 7, 2010 I went to play Tiger Woods 2010 and after about 4 holes the screen turned blue and I had to do a hard shutdown. I tried to play four more times each time it either went to a blue screen or it froze the game. On the last time instead of turning off the Xbox 360 I ejected the game CD and the frozen picture was still there instead of going to the dash board like it is supposed to do. Now comes the really strange part I restarted the Xbox 360 and was just looking around the new dash board and it locked up on me again. This does not seem to be a hardware problem it seems to be a software problem from the new dashboard down load. I have no error messages and the down load seemed to go well all though a bit long 15 minutes and I only have one green light on in the front Its totally screwed me over, the first issue I saw which I thought may have been another Fable 3 glitch was an ingame freeze, after reading this I'm guessing it was the new dashboard. Second and most annoyingly, I tried recovering my gamertag since I was getting strange connection problems coincidentally after trying to play the online mode of a really old game - Tenchu Z which would not allow me to access the online mode. When I tried recovering my gamertag I was hit half way through recovery with "xbox live not available" then "xbox live signup is currently unavailable". so I tried recovering on another console which also has the new update and got the same problem. I also obviously cannot access any save files owned by my Gamertag profile. We pre-ordered the Xbox 360 with Kinnect in August and picked it up on Saturday, November 6. This was my son's birthday present, I set it up for him including a Live account. We downloaded the update and he played the game that came with the bundle which was a Kinnect enabled game. This was fine. Then he tried to play a game meant for Xbox but not Kinnect and it would not load. He can only play games meant for Kinnect but not any other games. This is a brand new system and I believe the update caused this problem and it's obviously not fixed since we just downloaded it Saturday night. I've read other comments on other boards that people can't get their games to show up, they are getting the open tray message. Are they going to fix this? i still cannot download games, xbox says they are still working on their errors My Xbox 360 will no longer recognise my external hard drive on my wireless network or by plugging it in directly. I was playing Fable III. After the update, the game began to freeze, sooner and sooner. Now it won't even boot up past the new swirly xbox logo. It's basically trash now! I barely use my xbox, maybe 20 times since I purchased it. I'm unable to play any discs now after the update. PLease fix, all i see is open tray. i cant play any disks either after the update i have problems connecting to my profile. I've checked my connection and sometimes it works nd sometimes it doesn't. But when i try to sign in it says "problems signing in, please try again if the problem persist". After the update my xbox wont read any disks. no games dvd's or cd's I have the exact same problem. Microsoft is doing nothing to address this. It doesn't work for me. I went on the support xbox live update thingy and it didn't have anything on how to deal with this problem. I really want to try xbox LIVE! my system keeps saying need to update before I can get on Xbox Live but when I try it tells me it is not able to update. I am connected to the internet so I know thats not the problem..grrrr please help I want to play my new Black Ops on Live! I'm having major issues with the display after updating to the new dashboard on November 6. The component video doesn't work at all, and the HDMI connection is flaky. The xbox starts up, and I can still hear audio even when the video doesn't display. I had no issues prior to the update. A friend of mine is having the same issues - he initially assumed that his graphics card had fried. My sons xbox 360 won't work at all since the update and microsoft answer pay £1oo to repair it what a joke was fine before update. Love the kinect so far but i'm having a lot of lag issues when playing online matches as well as my netflix not working properly, keeps lagging me out of movies and then takes forever to reload them, took me 3.5 hrs to watch an 1.5 hr movie ..lol recovered my profile over at my friends to have my loadouts on black ops and got home and tryed to recover it. problem is i get a message about a game error and i dont even have a game in. I can't even enter my information it's B.S. I just want to play some COD perfect timing xbox. anyone else have this problem? Hey man, i know its a pretty big grave dig but i just bought a second hand 360 and i have this problem, i can't sign up for xbox live or recover the account i have made online with my pc and it gives me the game error BS, did you ever find out how to fix it?! if it keeps freezing it could be your hard drive?? mine wouldnt play black ops and the 3 red rings would sometimes come on but it would play fifa (what i had saved to my hard drive) fine, so i saved black ops and it worked fine no crashing at all started getting "open tray" error right after the update finished. Support says no one else has reported this, yet I see tons on here with the same issue. Let's help each other try to get this resolved. Email me at [email protected] and provide me your ticket numbers they gave you when you called in. I am going to call them back and when they say I am the only one, I will present all of these numbers to a supervisor and hopefully catch them up in their mistake. what a coincidence. it wasn't the update that killed my system, it was a motor that needed oiled. i took apart the console and the drive motor was bone dry and wasn't allowing my system to spin the disk. do NOT attempt this if your console is still under a 1 or 2 year warranty, send it to Microsoft and let them fix it. this however is not covered by the RRoD 3 year warranty. if you need help or think this is what's causing your "open tray" errors, let me know and I'll be glad to walk you through the repair or even do it for you. email me at [email protected] This happened to me, you article has helped me solve the problem. CHERS!!! It gave me the red ring of death Its becoming more and more apparent that these latest update problems are manifesting in a variety of ways to different people. I'll tell you of my experiences since updating 1 week ago. Firstly I have an old arcade version, with Zephyr motherboard according to various internet sources with 203W 16.5 A. PSU, HDMI and component outputs. I successfully managed to update with no problems initially. Then after an hour or so went on Xbox Live just browsing various things, then decided to play a game after a few minutes, froze, switched off showing two left hand vertical red lights. I switched it off at console button, then switched back on after a few minutes. Displaying system shut down blah blah...make sure its not enclosed in confined space blah blah; which it isn't! tried it a day later everything ok then play game maybe ten mins same again. This has happened repeatedly after games (including installed demo games), dvds. Today watched dvd for 15mins, then problem happened again but can't switch off only by pulling out the plug after 10mins tried to switch on, but only makes loud fan noises, goes straight to red lights. Through all of this console or PSU has not felt hot to touch they are on a cool stone floor. PSU goes from green LED to standby when off, no red LED on PSU either....! Thankyou Microsoft, take note, listen to people and rectify. One very disappionted Xbox360 owner After updating the dashboard, I can no longer play tiger woods golf 2010, it just locks up with graphic squares on the screen. Remote is inoperable at this point, as well. Wish I had never updated! my friend's list is missing and i can't even get into the free part of XBL wtf. I had the same problem - I was watching Sky Player and in the middle of a programme got a hideous screeching noise then the whole thing locked up - Happened twice before I turned it off and haven't switched back on since. It had problems locating my pad as well. This update is a joke. Any ideas? When I try to download the update it loads some then it will stop and say it couldn't be updated and to test my connection...when I test my connection it says I am connected and Xbox Live is up and running...but when I try to update then it says the same thing..Test your connection..it won't download and its getting very annoying. What crap.. I "WAS" using the Trendnet TEW-647GA for almost a year with no issues, after the update it no longer works. Is MS blocking the use of non-microsoft products with the 360. Again this is crap.. Give me back my working 360. All my game save are gone, I'm told the files are corrupt and cannot be used, would I like to start a new profile. Each and every game on my system ( many ). At first I had no xbox profile what so ever nada, no avatar, gamer scores or achievements. after a day this cleared up. The game saves, no luck. Also every single game needs a update or I'll be signed out, I thought not so bad ......till I noticed this prompt occurred every single time over and over to all games, Disc or download. I have a feeling the game saves are a loss and will never return, as they no longer exist on my hard drive. This console has been a headache from the start......it seems if it's not one thing it's blah, blah, bla........... my xbox dash board advertisements are pixelated and presented with non-colors, but my games play fine without any video errors. I did the update a few weeks ago, now games that never locked up, always lock up... including Left4Dead, GTA4, Ghostbusters, to name a few. Micro$oft FTL. The Problems with my xbox is that it freezes when i try to join a party, game, send messages, look at friend's list, going to dashboard, pretty much anything dealing with the xbox live menu. Also it loads slower and it won't read disks unless i'm not signed into xbox live but i can sign into xbox live but only while the game is being played. does anyone else have the same problem? Thanks guys, you've saved me. I haven't used Xbox live in months and came across this thread by mistake whilst trying to figure out setting it up again. However after reading this I am definately going to wait until I have seen Microsoft going to court, on the news, for destroying thousands and thousands of pounds worth of their own product with this crack-pot update. see above, i know how to fix the "open tray" error All I can see on my dashboard is the "my xbox" menu and the "my friends" menu. lots of people apparently get the "can read disc" error and Microsoft denies there is any issue, i lost two xbox 360's to this right after the update yet Microsoft says there is no relation. I should have videotaped the systems working, the dashboard update/download, install, and then perpetual errors My 360 got bricked after a dashboard/system update a couple nights ago! Error 71 followed by disc unreadable Still waiting nearly 2 months for xbox to resolve issues with update customer service is CRAP!!!! I just became aware of this update earlier today when my 9 yr. old tried playing a new game he got for xmas. He told he saw something about an update and clicked yes. Then, the next screen showed that the update stopped with an error code displayed. His Xbox is not connected to the internet. So, I tried the online support troubleshooting suggestions = No help at all. I called and had to call back two more times because of no resolution. The third "specialist" told me I need to download the update onto a USB stick, because the download to disc didn't work. I'd rather not have to buy anything else. Has anyone else experienced this and they found a resolution? Because, in my opinion, support and their "specialists" sucked and were no help at all. Automatic disc start up needs to be activated manually. Non of my d/loaded content can be found when i try to access it in game... and that's just the beginning. It's ok to say to everyone to d/load it all again, but we don't all have broadband access and it's a pain for me to do. But then i don't expect things to go right when it's got microsoft on the tin. This is what happens when you get a PC to do a consoles job! Its been 2 months since that update came out and my xbox still has problems. it won't let me update any of my games and since it won't let me do it, I can't play any of those games on xbox live, it won't read discs unless i'm signed out, it freezes whenever I go to the guide menu dashboard, join a party, send or recieve messages, and whenever I press the big X button while i'm in the guide menu. I just don't understand microsoft can't just send out a patch for the update. I wonder why i'm paying for xbox live if I can't even play xbox live for most of my games. In case you were wondering my gamertag is Darth Calypso. I just updated my xbox. I was playing modern warfare when I got a message for an update. I applied the update, and it went through fine.. the disc was apparently read since it came on the dashboard, but when I pressed the play game the screen just went black and I couldn't access the game. I can go through the dashboard without any problems. what the * is this? my 360 has simply stopped working now, not from rrod but instead it starts and shows the xbox logo but instead of going to the dashboard i get a message saying it cant read the update from the storage device. please reinsert it to continue the update, if problem persists blah blah and theres a giant status code below. no matter what i try including trying different storage devices and HDD's it says the same thing even if there is no storage device, same thing, also the storage device works fine on a different xbox. this is my second xbox 360, my first died from rrod. i will not be having any more to do with xbox, how can i be shure that this wasnt a deliberate scam for them to sponge even more money out of people, there update killed my xbox and they wont rectify my problems of yours, as much as i want to play an xbox i wont be a fool and by a third one so that can fail in a year or 2 SAME THING BRO i cant get to the dashboard and wen i attach my hardrive error my 360 says update failure attach hardive and wen i do attach it i get the E 94 I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO TO GET BAK ON THE DASHBOARD help plz Ever since the November 2010 patch my XBox's DVD drive has difficulty even recognizing a game is in it. I often have to open and close the DVD 10 times or more before it recognizes that it has a DVD in it. I heard the November 2010 patch had some additional anti-piracy stuff in it, and that it did something with the DVD, (ROM update?). Let me here state that I have never had a pirated game in my XBox. Anyway, I have heard there are others with this issue, but I have not found it mentioned in the official XBox Live forums. If I knew that finding out which DVD drive my XBox had in it and replacing it would fix it, I would. But I think it has to do with the XBox Live Update itself, rather than the failure of the DVD drive in it. After a friend put a new game in my xbox 360 elite it upgraded {installed a virus ?] causing the 3 rings of death. My 360 won't update the dashboard, I'm at spotlight and gears of war 3 isnt there to watch, and it came out today but I went over to my friends house and GOW3 was the 1st thing on his spotlight. I think it's strange is raving about this update, yet this new dashboard has lost all my game saves! what next you ask, not only that but it has lost all my downloaded content too! fixed ! you are bleeding joking, my whole gaming experience is totally wiped out. my xbox360 can't let me active downloads, it says: "you active downloads here. recently completed downloads will appear in my games and in the music player and video player apps. to download new content, check the marketplaces and media apps available in the xbox dashboard. so how i can fix the proplem?!?!? please help me microsoft forces you tobuy anougher unit because they will not budge when you get an c000-0099 code. That tells me that the consumer is lying and they couldnt care less. I called xbox live support only to be told they can not help you and that they are allways correct. there only solution is for you tobuy anougher unit..when most of us didnt allter or tampered the unit. what a rip off

Housing hires security firm to patrol Bouet Tuesday 10th November 2009, 2:30PM GMT. FEARS of crime have forced Housing to hire a private security firm to patrol the Grand Bouet estate. Residents say there has been a rise in vandalism, arson and antisocial behaviour as tenants move out. The young families and elderly people remaining there are now living between vacant, boarded up houses on the three-quarters empty estate that is scheduled for demolition next year. Vacant properties have become a target for troublemakers, prompting Housing to hire Maximum Security. The company started on a one-week trial on 30 October and its contract will now continue until at least the end of the year. A Housing spokesman said it had appointed the firm in response to a number of break-ins at boarded up properties and in anticipation of increased antisocial behaviour on Halloween and Guy Fawkes Night, which had both passed without significant incident. Housing minister Dave Jones said employing the company was the best way to monitor the situation. ‘We have a fair number of properties that are boarded up and with bonfire night we thought the residents needed special looking after,’ said Deputy J’m staggered by this. How much is all this costing us? What happened to the ‘vandalism initiative’that was instigated by Deputy Barry Brehaut I think it was? It’s about time we forgot all about this ‘touchy feely’ nonsense and trying to understand these scum and came down hard on them. The tail is wagging the dog, it should be these low lives that should be afraid of being caught and given proper deterrent sentences, not the long suffering residents living in fear where ever they reside. Get the police down there with vans and dogs if necessary, and anyone unable to give a good account of themselves or caught breaking the law make them pay for any damage done or failing that make their parents responsible. It’s long over due that Guernsey stamps down hard on this sort of thing once and for all. Guernsey residents have given the Deputies the mandate to act on this after that ‘vandal initiative’ let’s see some action for once. Report abuse Beaufort – a tad harsh dont you think? Are you telling me that in your youth, you never hung around, or perhaps committed any misdemeanour? If you have not then from now on we shall all call you Saint Beaufort. So lets use words that are abit more appropriate. Scum=bad. Is it any wonder that some youth feel isolated, misunderstood and completely useless when they see themselves being labelled in such a manner. Cost – is cost an issue? If there is a possibility of tenants being in danger, then surely the cost to reduce that risk is worth every penny? How do you propose we fund all the salaries and pension etc etc of the 150 or so extra police you intend to draft in to sort this out? Perhaps we should bring back the Gallows? As for seeing action, i think you will find Housing just took some. Report abuse Security Guards check now and then, a waste of money and no results… Police check sometimes, already on the payroll but no results… CCTV operates 24 x 7, value for money and yobs caught in the act… Wake up Housing… Report abuse I agree entirely with Beaufort. To have to rely on a private security company for protection shows that there is something wrong with the policing methods. This,on top of the police stating that there was nothing they could do about troublemakers in the sunken garden, proves that the police are not given enough powers to deal with them. Report abuse I don’t remember reading anything about the application of the birch being outlawed in Guernsey. The (not empty) threat of the birch keeps the people of Singapore happy safe and virtually crime free. This doesn’t mean that the birch is used on a daily basis, despite what those with an interest in the proliferation of crime have to say on the subject.. Report abuse Well said Beaufort. These people have been able to get away with their actions for far too long and believe themselves to be untouchable. By splitting them up and moving them to other States Housing estates all that will happen is the creation of “mini Bouets” and before long all States Housing residents will be living in fear. The parents should be held accountable instead of not caring what their offspring are up to. Send the offenders to some sort of bootcamp. Teach them what life really is all about. Report abuse The area is always going to be a magnet for vandalism in its current state, and if the police are unwilling or unable to patrol the area then residents must be either moved out or protected. It is worrying that we can no longer rely on the police for protection, what is going on there? If it is a funding issue then would it not be better to pay overtime to police officers rather than third party security firms? Isn’t vandalism down to boredom, wouldn’t it be a good idea to give the kids a skate/bmx park in the area to keep them out of trouble. If after that vandalism still occurs then let the law deal with them. The best punishment would be to make them clean up the area they have vandalised in front of their peers! Report abuse Auntie GP, No, I can’t ever recall setting fire to empty properties or vandalising anything or making people afraid to live in their own homes. All that equates to bad in my book, so I stand by my original statement. I don’t know where you get this figure of 150 police from to sort this out. If the correct deterrents and these scum were brought up properly the police wouldn’t be required to sort this mess out on a daily basis. As to some of the youth being labelled and feeling misunderstood the ball is firmly in their court, when some of those whose behaviour falls below certain standards one expects in civilised society the labelling will stop. I thought the ‘boredom’ card would raise its head, I can’t count the amount of sports,clubs and societies over here, no doubt cost will be mentioned, well can I suggest these youngsters perhaps get part time jobs to pay for any activity, again why should others have to subsidise their existence, although I see we do in regards to Beau Sejour which manages to lose £700,000 a year. The tail is definitely wagging the dog here and needs to be sorted out once and for all. I see Singapore has been mentioned and I agree it is one of the most pleasant places where the general populace can go about their business and the perceived threat of crime is virtually non existent perhaps we could take a leaf out of their book. Report abuse Excellent idea, although i think the Bouet should be turned into a concentration style camp experience theme park for the vandals that terrorise the estate, marshalled by x war vets to demonstrate just how inconsiderate they are being and how demeaning their behaviour is to the rest of the community of an island that fought and lost so much for thier freedom, i am not an avid war campaigner but i spent a good 12 yrs living on Guernsey and there is a very small minority who do not realise how lucky they are to live on such an amazing and prosperous island. Chris Report abuse On a lighter note, the photo used by the GP to highlight the ‘intimitating hoodie’ carries the Nike logo above it. The Ultimate product endorsement by heavenly bodies? Report abuse Well Beaufort – im sure theres room in singapore for people like you. You make it sound like there are fires etc there all day every day. These events are not always as painted by the people that go in the paper. Remember – they are all despereate to get out of there and rightly or wrongly will do anything they can to speed the process up. If you are so concerned about it the cost – why dont you go and patrol the area, then you will get a feel of what it is actually like there. But you wont as it is easier to sit up on high and pass judgement. I do not agree with what goes on in the young community, and agree there are lessons to be learnt, but I do not believe that using words like scum and demograting “hoodies” in that way achieves anything. Its interesting, I have a respectable job with a reasonable amount of responsibilty for people and their lives, i wear a shirt and tie to work – if im stood at a cash point behind someone – im not even noticed. At the weekends I like to wear jeans and a hoodie, stand in the same queue and all of a suddern I am noticed and people are a lot more protective of what they are doing on the ATM and you can see the cogs turning thinking “hmmm – am i about to get mugged” – its pathetic and its narrow minded indiduals like you that antagonise these situations. Report abuse PS I personally agree with Michael Caines suggestion that National Service would be a good thing. Teach some self worth and respect for authority and discipline. Report abuse I am slightly alarmed at the idea of the tax-payer having to fork out for this. Since when has ‘criminal behaviour’ not been a police issue? (Guernsey Press yesterday). Does anyone know what they do on the far more seriously crime ridden sink estates in places like South London? Do you reckon that the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham Housing Department hire off-duty private bouncers to keep their native gun-toting gangsters from intimidating the local council householders of a Sunday afternoon? At the expense of the tax-payer? I think not? Report abuse Oh to live in Singapore – the highest per capita rate of execution in the world, ranked 141 out of 167 in the world for freedom of the press, restricted freedom of speech, compulsory military service (conscientious objectors are jailed), censorship of political writing etc etc, I hope Beaufort, Brian Harper et al will be very happy there. Still, on the plus side, at least there’s no chewing gum on the streets, which kind of makes up for all the downsides, don’t you think? Report abuse Auntie GP What do you mean by ‘people like me?’ If by that you mean ordinary taxpayers who are fed up with seeing their island smashed up,set fire to and generally abused I guess the cap fits. BTW what happened to those scum who kicked that cat to death and the same scum who set all those shed fires we had about a year ago? I would imagine every day there is some mindless act of vandalism judging by what I see as I travel around the island. Why should I patrol the area, that is what the Police are for. If we all went to Singapore I guess there wouldn’t be anybody left to pay to clear up the mess. I notice you haven’t addressed any of the points/questions I made in my previous post? In regard to National Service, what makes you think a professional army wants scum like that? Todays army is very different from the 1940/50′s. Report abuse Bridge Maximum Security will work out far cheaper than the police. The per hour cost of a police officer is astronomical, what with their pension, holidays, sick pay etc on top of their salaries. Report abuse Beaufort, Could’nt agree more with your sentiment,but who has the guts to tackle the problem?.And as an ex serviceman we certainly would not want such creatures in our ranks.Catch then,show them that their behaviour will not be tolerated,and if they are under age then take the parents to task!There is no problem that can’t be resolved with resolute leadership! Report abuse Why not just get our very own vigilantes the “Guernsey Boys” to do it? Just dump some cars around the estate and they’ll appear in double quick time and do the job for free! ;-) Report abuse By people like you I mean people who show no compassion or understanding for others less fortunate. Those that think Guernsey belongs in Desperate housewives Wysteria Lane, white picket fences and book clubs with afternoon tea. The reality is we are a welfare state and it is the duty of the community to support everyone and try and encourage those that find themselves in difficult circumstances to break what is likely to be a cycle. Many of the children are born into relative poverty, not 3rd world poverty by any stretch of the imagination, just relative to others in our affluent society. They are not encouraged to achieve at school, and are often parented by the out of sight out of mind philosophy, left to their own devices-it is natural that they will hang around and form “gangs” for want of a better word. Often the ring leader of these gangs tend to be the stronger personalities, and they set poor examples. before you know it you are stuck in the rut of mindless vandalism and wanton destruction, often in a keeping up with the joneses type attitude. Then this image is compounded by those on the outside who pass judgement without any real understanding, if you set someone up to fail, inevitably they will not disappoint. I agree with Phil, it is far cheaper to use Maximum as a preventative measure then it is to use the police as a reactive measure. If you were in need of police, but they were unable to attend as they were focusing on the bouet you would be shouting from the roof tops. Lets show some community spirit and try and break this cycle, not quite hug a hoodie but better that then reinforcing the image of them being scum. Report abuse Do away with Police pensions then they can employ more Bobbies rather than Bouncers. Report abuse Auntie GP In my younger years i was bought up on a housing estate in a large family, and yes we did get up to a bit of the normal stuff like shouting or kicking a ball into someones garden etc. But do you know none of us or my friends ever set fire to anything or scared people out of their properties. your excuses for these people are pethetic and you can be assured that when there older they`ll be the same ones beating the hell out of ome innocent person who happens to look at them the wrong way. As for the boredem thats also a joke. Next time my daughter is bored shall i not be suprised if she decides to go and set fire to something? Beaufort Your spot on. Report abuse Is it just me or does this represent the privatisation of policing and security matters? Why is this not being handled by the Police? Why incur private security firm fees when this is the Police’s primary responsibility? When was this debated in the States and voted on? Clearly, it wasn’t. I agree with all of the sentiments expressed by Auntie GP. Maybe a little more understanding and a bit less arbitrary condemning would be helpful when considering social problems, including crime, and how they are connected to relative poverty. The Townsend Report in 2003 said that approx. 15% of the population of Guernsey was living in relative poverty. I wonder what the figure is now, 5 years on? This isn’t a priority for the current Policy Council so we are not likely to find out any time soon… Report abuse Auntie GP I refer you to my opening post, this trying to understand them patently doesn’t work.It’s this liberal wishy washy attitude that has got us where we are. I don’t want to try and understand people with the mentality who kick cats to death for ‘fun’, and set light to things. We need a return to basics, and these people need to learn by whatever means necessary what is acceptable behaviour. If the law is being broken it is a police matter. I agree with you on one thing, this cycle needs to be broken once and for all. Report abuse Sorry but I too agree with Beaufort and have no desire to understand these people who continually claim boredom. Like bcb I too grew up on a large housing estate and was raised properly i.e. to respect my elders and their property regardless of who owned it. We also respected the police back in the day. If these people are born into relative poverty why does it give them the right to act as they do? Answer me that Auntie GP and Moleman. My parents too lived in relative poverty but myself and all my siblings together with friends living in similar circumsatnces would never have dared to behave the way these people do and have been allowed to get away with for far too long now. Report abuse @ Bridge: You asked “Does anyone know what they do on the far more seriously crime ridden sink estates in places like South London?” Yes, I do know what they do: 1. Have more CCTV 2. Employ more police officers in problem areas 3. Engage in ‘partnership working’ 4. Use legal powers that Guernsey Police do not have available to them 5. Employ private security on occasions 6. Employ PCSOs And where do you think the money comes from to support all the additional resources they use to police South London Boroughs? That’s right, the tax payers pocket. So I think your last sentence is rather unrealistic, and inaccurate. The result of all the extra spending in the UK? Far far higher crime levels than we have in Guernsey, and a far worse detection rate. The Police in Guernsey need to be applauded for how they manage to keep any kind of cap on crime here with such phenomenally poor resources and support from ‘partner’ agencies. Report abuse I have to speak up in support of “Auntie GP”. The attitude of the majority of posters to this thread is rotten beyond belief. Rather than castize those who are responsible for the vandalism etc, it is about time people looked to themselves to find out where the finger of blame is pointing. Our society is completely selfish – but that is what Guernsey has promoted – get rich quick at the expense of everyone else. Relative poverty over here should be sickening for what pertains to be an affluent community. The children of those who have nothing have no aspirations. All they see is the wealthy getting wealthier, and themselves living on what is, relatively, less and less every week. It is not time for stamping down or bringing back the birch. It is time for the island to reassess its priorities. The answer is not to stamp harder on those at the bottom of the pile, but to give everyone an equal opportunity and the equal desire to succeed. Those people who can afford three meals a day, to run a car and go on holiday are so far removed from the reality of many on this island that your comments are worthless. You should be very, very ashamed of yourselves. Report abuse Beaufort You “don’t want to try and understand people with the mentality who kick cats to death for fun and set light to things”? Personally I don’t want to try and understand people who would like to whip/birch/kill other human beings, and who favour Guernsey becoming a repressive regime. See how we’re all different? Report abuse A number of posts appear to be saying that all at the Bouet are at fault, they are not, and with other areas of the Island it is a minority of those living there that cause the damage. There are great people and families there, let us not forget that. Report abuse Did Max Security win a tender or something, or is it just good old fashioned Policy Council nepotism ? Report abuse Beaufort. Your comments are disgusting. Report abuse Phil. Can you point out where I’ve advocated ‘like to whip/birch/kill other human beings, and who favour Guernsey becoming a repressive regime’ you’ve brought the subject up of the birch not me.You need to read what I’ve actually typed, and not put words in my mouth.I don’t see how you can defened the indefensible, you would actually like to live somewhere where you were afraid to step out of your own house? My View I haven’t mentioned the Bouet either. In one of my previous posts I stated that ‘residents living of fear’, that goes for anywhere on the Island, I agree it is a minority spoiling things for the majority. I see the yobs who claimed they were willing to help Parks & Gardens reinstate the sunken garden that was smashed up didn’t bother turning up or have the courtesy to let anybody know they had no intention of attending.Before anyone starts on about it being during school time, the original damage was caused during school time and it didn’t seem to make any difference then.Ask any of the office workers in the area, they were there at all hours. Report abuse Beaufort, really, you may not have mentioned the Bouet in any posts, but are we not all posting thoughts and comments on a Guernsey Press story, which is about a private security firm at………….the Bouet! Report abuse As I said before, I agree with Beaufort’s comments having lived through such situations myself. Report abuse Bring back the birch! Flog em til they repent! Sinners! To the stocks with em! Never did me any harm! I blame the Fourth Reich! For shame, for shame. Report abuse I’m not too sure where Beaufort gets his information about ‘wishy-washy’ and the rest. Laws have got tighter, punishments harsher and bigoted and polarised media organisations have created a climate of fear. A few drunk kids behaving like idiots is a symptom of the disrespect we show the less fortunate. Auntie GP highlights some of the pressures, and recent UK reports confirm that the economic proclivities of the elite are exacerbating social degradation. Unfortunately for some who follow the rantings of unaccountable media moguls and treat them as gospel, thinking about things from start to finish is an unlearned skill. I don’t think that people are suggesting that perps ‘get away with it’ or ‘treat them with kid gloves’ but rather more effort should be taken to understand the causes of this alienation that allows sociopathic tendencies, from the involved to the onlooker. Society is guilty, turning inwards on ourselves is like hiding from the truth. The fact is that Guernsey has never given a damn for people that struggle to fit in. In these days of ‘entitlement’ this manifests itself as resentment, whereas before they had an ignorant deference to ‘higher social classes’. Social awareness needs channeling. Who cares about improving Guernsey for the majority and not just for the ‘plc’? Report abuse Beaufort I am sure I recall you advocating the use of the birch, either on this site or maybe a different one. You say that we could take a leaf out of Singapore’s book. How exactly do you think they administer justice? How progressive a society do you think Singapore is? The fact that Singapore is virtually crime-free may well be true, but the cost of that is corporal and capital punishment, together with limited freedom of speech, a restricted press etc. You may consider that a price worth paying. I suggest that many more would not. Report abuse My View. Fair enough, I was trying to widen the issue as the Bouet doesn’t have a monopoly on this sort of behaviour it’s an Island wide issue. Belinda There is no such word as ‘castize’, but I fail to see why I should look to myself for other peoples misdemeanors. That is the problem in a nutshell, nobody will take responsibility for their or their own offspring but expect ‘society’ to pick up the pieces. Well this part of society is fed up having to subsidise these low lifes. I suggest that if these people want to get out from the bottom of the pile they might try working for it the way the rest of us do. We all had an equal opportunity to avail ourselves of the excellent education system on this Island, jobs are plentiful,page and a half in the Press today. The ‘poverty’ card doesn’t wash with me. I fail to see how being poor equates with anti-social behaviour. You don’t see this sort of thing in third world countries where genuine poverty exists, not having the latest mobile phone,trainers or satellite TV doesn’t equate to being poor. Report abuse Arnauld. It was reported that the police themselves said they ‘couldn’t do anything’ in regard to the sunken garden. That is what is meant by ‘wishy washy’. If the police claim they can’t do anything how does that square with the rest of your opening paragraph? How have punishments got tighter? Try comparing punishment now in 2009 to 1809, there is no comparison. I suggest you re read the thread from the top, this ‘understanding’ business has already been covered. Phil. So you can’t show where I’ve advocated bringing back the birch then? Or ‘like to whip/birch/kill other human beings, and who favour Guernsey becoming a repressive regime’ can you show me and everyone else where I said that? You still haven’t addressed the third point I made either. Report abuse Cheesed Off Firstly, I wasn’t saying that being relatively poor gives individuals a right to commit anti-social behaviour; but it does provide the context of such behaviour. More and more inequality leads to greater crime. If you allow the earnings of the so called top sections of society to rocket away from everyone else, that growing disparity will not help ease social problems, including crime and disorder. Beaufort You are assuming that we have equality of opportunity in Guernsey. We don’t. Look at the secondary education system if you have any doubts about that. It should also be conceded I think that the biggest victims of crime in Guernsey are those from the lowest income groups. It is those who don’t vote and don’t come on internet boards like this to raise their views who suffer day in day out from low level anti-social behaviour and worse. The other point is: if you are brought up as a child on an estate (and I’m not specifically thinking of the Bouet here) where crime is virtually accepted; where witnesses will rarely make themsleves known to Police; where alcohol abuse and drugs are rife; where domestic violence is almost viewed as natural; where children are rarely shown the love and warmth by their own family / parents that other families enjoy; how exactly does that child have the same start in life as the child of rich middle class parents? They don’t and it’s not their fault. Report abuse Moleman I repeat I was brought up on such an estate and under some of the circumstances you mention. However this did not stop my parents showing all of us love and warmth nor did it stop them teaching us right from wrong. We were, and still are, far from rich or middle class. Just hard working true Guerns. The main problem here is that nowadays parents do not take responsibilty for their offsprings’ actions and yes they are getting away with far too much. Report abuse Beaufourt Kids have always broken into empty houses, especially if they’re boarded up or behind “do not cross” ribbon. Charlie did say not to play with matches because kids play with matches. Broken windows invite further breaking. Was it criminal damage at the sunken gardens or was it a lack of respect? Where does this respect come from? The adults in society, all adults, are the example for the children to follow. If you have one set, usually close – neighbours or extended family – that are resenting their lives and have lost motivation, and the other set – media led commentators, mainly – saying how bad they are etc etc then what do you think the default position is for someone growing up around all that? Do we know who’s causing the problems? It can only be the same bunch, surely. I imagine one of them is the guy I passed urinating all over the side of the GFSC or the other building next to Moore’s and giving lip to a lady that was asking him about his manners. Of course it’s totally uncalled for, totally reprehensible and needs addressing. But it isn’t due to a lack of Law & Order, but rather a perversion of personal entitlement trumping responsibility. Attention seeking and greed. That’s where we live. Report abuse Moleman. I’m not assuming anything of the sort, I typed ‘equal opportunity to avail ourselves of the excellent education system’ provided by the State. The opportunity is there, it is down to the individual whether he or she grasps it. There are activities available to every child on this Island undreamt of elsewhere. Where else would sailing be part of the curriculum for example? Arnauld. It was reported that plants were uprooted and trees snapped in the sunken garden, that is criminal damage surely? Report abuse Beaufort This is easily solved. Two questions for you; in what way could Guernsey take a leaf out of Singapore’s book? and do you or do you not agree with corporal and/or capital punishment? As for living somewhere where I’d be afraid to step out of my own front door, about 12 years ago I stayed with a mate for about a year on one of the roughest council estates in South London (which has since been demolished, it was that bad). I currently live in the Bouet (although not in the States houses admittedly). At no point in my life have I felt scared to step out of my own front door, and to be honest I can’t ever imagine that being the case. I hope that answers your question, perhaps you would now be so kind as to answer mine in a similarly forthright manner. Report abuse Phil. You have still not answered my three questions. You keep sidestepping them. Report abuse PHIL, what are you talking about? It seems you get what you pay for. So you think the security firm is the answer. I think it shows a clear sign of failure by the authorities and the courts to clear up this ongoing, unfolding and growing mess. So a security guard pops down the Bouet and sees a group of several young people damaging some property or threatening a resident. What will they do, call the over paid police, who in turn will rush down there and then what. Find the young people have run away. So, if the young people start to run away before the police get there, what it the security guard going to do. Chase them? Grab them? I think not, that could be an assault Phil; that is unless, they make a citizens arrest! And that Phil may be a whole other ball game? And what about the safety of the security guard. Are they trained to deal with violent people? Do they have the equipment to carry out the policing of this area? Probably not I would say. Your attitude appears to indicate that we already have to pay too much to keep our streets clear of the few troublesome feral youths. So we can pay them less and probably get less. We can go down the road of the UK and get cheaper policing (perhaps this is the first step). Beware though! The example set by the UK has its pitfalls. Just look how it has deteriorated over there over the last few years. Pay less, you will get less. So unless you wish us to slide into the trap the UK has fallen into, don’t be to quick to suggest you want to drop the standards set locally. The do gooders and PC brigade have brought the UK to its knees. Guernsey has a chance not to follow the UK, but my guess is it will? So here’s one for you Phil, seeing as you think its all about the pay, and you do not like the feral youth culture, why don’t you join the Special Police Force in Guernsey. You could do your bit, for free as well, in the rain, in the night, at weekends or Bank holidays, go on Phil get in there! Report abuse Just think These 14 and 15 year olds will be having kids of their own in a couple of years ! What’s the next generation going to be like ? Report abuse Beaufort I believe that I have answered your questions, however you have not answered mine. You are the one that is trying to sidestep the issues, not me. So, once again, how can we take a leaf out of Singapore’s book, and do you or do you not believe in corporal and/or capital punishment? Report abuse Phil. I suggest you read back up the thread, you haven’t answered my questions at all and have put words in my mouth. Report abuse Beaufort This is geting tedious – list them again and I’ll answer them, I’ve got nothing to hide. Unlike yourself by the look of it……… Report abuse Lou Quite some rant you had there considering that all I had said was that Maximum Security will be less costly than the police, in answer to a previous poster’s concerns over costs. As for the chances of getting me in a Police Uniform, for various reasons there’s more chance of hell freezing over!! Report abuse Phil. I agree with you that it is getting tedious, trying to have a rational debate with someone who puts words in my mouth and ignores any valid question I put then goes off at a tangent is hardly worth the effort. Still, as requested as you can’t be bothered to read what I’ve previously typed or addressed here are the points again. 1.Show me where I’ve advocated bringing back the birch, as you’ve stated. 2.Also where have I said ‘like to whip/birch/kill other human beings, and who favour Guernsey becoming a repressive regime’ can you show me and everyone else where I’ve said that? 3. You never addressed the following either, ‘I don’t see how you can defend the indefensible, you would actually like to live somewhere where you were afraid to step out of your own house?’ Over to you. Oh and another thing, congratulations to Parks and Gardens and the Environment Dept. on a job well done in the sunken garden, looks very good. Now who would like to run a sweepstake on when the ‘sunken gardens’ get smashed up again? Report abuse Beaufort 1. If you are not the Beaufort that posts on another sight, advocating the effectiveness of the birch, then I apologise. 2. These are examples of what happens in Singapore (apart from the birching – see 1 above). You have said that Singapore is a “most pleasant place to live” and that Guernsey could do with “taking a leaf out of their book”. Please explain what you mean by that if you are not suggesting that we follow their line of criminal punishment, which is after all the thrust of this thread. 3. See my post yesterday at 4.13pm. Is that not clear enough? Perhaps you could now see your way clear to answer my question on whether or not you agree with corporal and/or capital punishment? Report abuse I am sorry I missed this topic as I have been away for 3 days. Let me say this, we at Housing have a duty of care for the remaining tenants left at the Bouet and we will not shirk that responsibility, after discussion with me before I left on Monday I instructed the staff to get some extra security cover for this site over the Bonfire night period, this initiative was very successful and we decided to extend it until the end of the year. The costs of this security is very small when compared to carpenters having to constantly return to the site to re-board up properties that have been regularly broken into, with the real possibility of a fire being started or someone getting hurt in the buildings. These boarded up estates do unfortunately attract youngsters and it is often very difficult for the police to catch them in the act. We have since had contact from some of the remaining residents thanking the Housing department for making them feel more secure. The calls to the department have also dropped enabaling our staff to get on with other things more worthwhile. The police do have constant patrols in the area but they cannot be everywhere. I too have my own ideas about how some of the worst offenders ought to be dealt with but I will keep my opinions to myself as I don’t want to offend anybody. Report abuse Phil. You still haven’t answered point 2. but gone off at a tangent, demonstrate where I’ve said that? Report abuse I agree with most of the points put by Dave, however as I am a believer in CCTV and the power of actions vs cost, consider this: Using security firms or the Police, most probably has a detection rate for catching those “in the act” of less than 10%, mainly due to patrols being to visible and infrequent. When compared to CCTV caching those “in the act” is far more probable, CCTV systems operate 24 x 7 and the detection rate is most probably higher than 90%. I’m sure a good job is being done by all “including the yobs” but sometimes maybe we should look beyond the logical and use lateral thinking instead. Report abuse Give it 2 years and your streets will be as unsafe as they are in England. You have to stop the yobs Now before it all gets out of hand. All this gently gently approach does not work. If you need proof of this, anyone of you can walk down an English housing estate road at night. Good Luck! Report abuse Beaufort I don’t know how many more times I have to answer your questions before you finally get around to answering mine, but her goes (again); you have said that Guernsey could do with taking a leaf out of Singapore’s (a most pleasant place to live, in your words) book. Singapore has restricted freedom of speech/press, the highest per capita rate of execution, corporal punishment etc. You cannot seriously expect anyone to believe that their crime rate has nothing to do with this repressive regime. Kindly reveal your true colours and stop avoiding the questions that I have repeatedly asked you. In fairness, the answers are obvious, however you seem unwilling to provide them through embarrassment, shame, or some other reason. Report abuse Mr Bee If someone could invent a CCTV unit which could produce pictures which don’t look like they’ve been taken on a foggy night in a snowstorm then it may well be worth the investment Report abuse Phil. You have still failed to show me or anybody else where I’ve advocated the statement in point 2. You have still not answered my original question, when you have I’ll then go on to explain about Singapore. I will not have people put words in my mouth or try and twist what I’ve said. Something you seem to achieve with every post. Report abuse Presence is often a deterrent. If the police can’t be present then it’s reasonable for the landlord to employ a private firm to protect their asset and provide some feeling of security for the remaining tenants. As for Singapore there are significant cultural differences between Asia and the West. They are generally far more deferential to authority than us and their police are generally quasi paramilitiary and often armed. Report abuse so the houses are having windows broken and other such things? these houses that are to be demolished anyway…… just put some signs up saying its private property and those who enter do so at their own risk. that way no lawsuits if anyone hurts themselves. then let the kids/youths do what they want. if they want to burn the whole lot down, let them, its getting demolished anyway. if they hurt themselves in the process then so be it. lesson learned! Report abuse Rob, in theory a smashing idea, but really, can a supposedly advanced, welfare state adopt such an attitude? It is disgraceful how many people use terms such as scum and pond life. I too grew up on a social housing estate, and I remember the stigma attached to us “scroungers” at school. Fortunatly for me I wanted more and had the parents (note parents not parent)to support me. A major factor here has to be the lack of good role models. Which is something that can effect every family no matter how affluent or poverty stricken. Children from broken homes as a general rule react to thier situation some self harm, some rebel against the parent (s) some abuse alcohol or drugs etc – this is not just limited to social housing. I am only summising, but I think that the people that damaged the sunken garden were more then likely from private housing sector rather then social. Why? Well why would they go and trash the sunken garden when they have their own “turf” to do with as they see fit. That is key here too, these youngsters creat “gangs” for want of a better word. Why do they creat something that they can belong too? So that they can feel wanted, and that they do belong to something, which demonstrates that they otherwise feel alienated by society. I put this to any of you that use terms like scum and feral, take a stroll down to any housing estate and talk to these people, engage with them. You will find that alot of them are bright and engaging charachters who would like nothing more then to drive round in Beamers and have a nice house, but they feel that it is impossible as people wont give them a chance. I challenge any white collar workers here to hand on heart say that if they were advertising for an office junior type role and sifting through the applicants you would NOT pre-judge ab applicant from for example, the Bouet. Of course you would – they are scum, feral, pond life. Then, once you have made that judgement they are already fighting an up hill battle, if they are fortunate enough to get to interview. And that my friends is where society fails. The white picket fence BMW brigade are happy to earn their big bucks, but if they had their way they would rid this island of any “feral” and live in a Wysteria Lane styled land of perfection. Well guess what, it doesnt work like that – you want to live in a welfare state, then you deal with the problem area’s too. Report abuse Beaufort You really do have a problem revealing your true colours don’t you? For the umpteenth time, you have advocated Guernsey following Singapore, Singapore has corporal and capital punishment, together with a restricted press and limited freedom of speech. The implication is that you are therefore in favour of Guernsey adopting similar methods of punishment and repression. If this is incorrect please advise the way in which you think Guernsey can follow Singapore to improve our way of life. Report abuse Phil. You are doing it yet again. I haven’t said ‘Guernsey should follow Singapore’. I also want you to retract the allegation you aimed at me saying I advocated ‘ ‘like to whip/birch/kill other human beings, and who favour Guernsey becoming a repressive regime’, unless you can demonstrate where I’ve said that. It’s quite simple. You have made a giant leap, from me saying we should take a leaf out of Singapores book,(and I’m willing to expand on that after you retract these ridiculous statements) you’ve equated that to Guernsey having State sponsored murder. There is little point in trying to have a calm rational debate if people don’t read what the other side are saying, then put words in their mouth. Report abuse Beaufort In your post on November 11 at 10.15am you said, “I see Singapore has been mentioned and I agree it is one of the most pleasant places where the general populace can go about their business and the perceived threat of crime is virtually non existent perhaps we could take a leaf out of their book.” The only previous post that mentioned Singapore was made by Brian Harper on the same day at 12.44am, this post specifically mentioned corporal punishment, .” I think the conclusion that you therefore agree with Singapore’s policy of corporal punishment is an easy one to make. It would be naive to think that their policy of capital punishment, together with forced military service, restricted freedom of speech, and a restricted press (amongst other things) go a long way towards creating a society that is virtually crime free. However, in the interest of actually hearing what you have to say, I am willing to retract my comment of you being in favour of Guernsey taking a leaf out of Singapore’s book regarding corporal and capital punishment, and also the bit about the repressive regime. Perhaps now you could expand on how we could learn from Singapore, without adopting any of the aforementioned methods of punishment and maintaining all of the freedoms that we currently enjoy. Report abuse Right, Phil, Beaufort. The way I read it is as follows. Beaufort commented that Singapore had been mentioned and that they have a low crime rate and so we could perhaps take a leaf from there book. This in itself is not stating that he/she feels that corporal punishment etc is right. However I can see why phil has drawn this conclusion as it is fairly rational as Brian Harper when mentioning Singapore also mentions corporl punishment etc. Either way does it really matter? Lets face it, this is never going to happen. In this western civilisation it was outlawed and I think there is very little chance of it making a comeback, although as an aside if anyone watched the drama The Execution of Gary Glitter, you would of seen the statistic that 54% of the adult population would like to see the death penalty re-introduced, it is fair to assume of that 54% a large portion if not all would also like to see the birch back too! This is one time when the Human Rights Brigade are a good thing and they will stop anything like this happening. Violence is never the solution and will only breed more violence. Lets get back to the actual thread here. Do the Boeuet Residents feel safer knowing that there are patrols? Yes. Did 2 potentially troublesome nights ie Haloween and Bonfire night pass off with little to no comotion? Yes. Has this represented value for money? We will never know as the details are unlikely to get published. But if the security patrols are acting as a deterrent then they are assisting the police whose role largely is to show up and the kids scarper and thats the end of the problem that night. Now it is the security patrol that show, the kids scarper and the police can get on with other matters that they can do something about. The sooner that the placed is bulldozed the better and then the redelopment can be carried out and we can see if you really can build crime out of an area. Report abuse Phil. In view of your last post I suggest you engage with Brian Harper then, and stop putting words in my mouth. Good post Auntie GP. As an aside to my remarks, in the past I have had relatives who have lived in Singapore, and close family who have visited in the last couple of years, they have all stated they felt safer walking the streets of Singapore at night than the streets of St.Peter Port. Singapore since it gained independence in the 1960′s did in fact adopt British and Indian criminal/common law, and enjoys Westminster style government. I think that Singaporeans would admit that yes perhaps some liberties are missing in their present set up but that it is more preferable than being surrounded by crime and the subsequences of crime. There are still aspects that I would adopt or take a ‘leaf’ singular (for the benefit of Phil). I was reading an article (which I now can’t find) that described offenders convicted of low class crimes i.e littering, are fined from S$1000 and being made to wear orange jumpsuits and made to do community work. That would be a good starting point locally. This could be adopted here properly, by that I don’t mean planting trees or bulbs, that seems like an activities holiday to me. At the moment there is no real deterrent and the mind set needs changing. I see in Saturdays Press I think it was, that some youngsters had been caught and some police spokesman said they will be dealt with severely. My immediate reaction to that was yes, no doubt they will be given a two month suspended sentence instead of one month pending social worker reports or similar. I would really like to see the island be collectively proactive in dealing with this. Vandalism and anti-social behaviour is costing this Island hundreds of thousands of pounds in taxpayers money, as I’ve stated earlier people caught causing damage should be made to literally pay and put right any damage caused and make the parents responsible for their little darlings actions. Report abuse Yes Beaufort, this is what you have been saying all along if only others had read properly! These people/kids/parents surely must be held accountable for their actions and as such must pay. I too doubt that the four youngsters recently caught will receive fair punishment. Once again no lessons are learned and the behaviour continues….. Report abuse Beaufort The introduction of orange jumpsuits for community service, coupled with a modest increase in fines, is hardly likely to make too much of a difference in my opinion. If Guernsey’s crime rate is to be reduced to that of Singapore I would humbly suggest that corporal (and maybe even capital) punishment would have to be introduced. Some people would obviously be in favour of that happening. I wouldn’t. I also think your point about Singapore adopting British law is a little misleading. Firstly, Britain obviously did away with capital (and corporal) punishment many years ago, and as far as I’m aware trial by jury is still a feature of British courts. That isn’t the case in Singapore however, where jury trials were abolished in 1969 and a SINGLE JUDGE can hear trials involving capital offences. Personally I would prefer to live in a community with a slightly higher crime rate (but with freedom of speech and a free press) than a society that has neither freedom of speech nor a free press, and where corporal and capital punishment are still frequently used. I guess that’s where we differ. Report abuse Just as an observation, whilst posting in this thread I’ve come across some quite interesting things about Singapore. I personally can’t make up my mind about corporal punishment and it depends on which side of the divide as to whether it works or not.I’m still firmly sat on the fence. I had another idea which might work locally and would need the co-operation of the Press and some political leadership.It would be worth a try in my opinion and how about once a week the names and good quality photographs are published showing who these individuals are once convicted of vandalism and other crimes which are costing us all dear. A short piece explainiing what they did and how much their particular crime has cost us, then compare what the island could have spent that money on for the general benefit of all but this has now been wasted instead on putting right what the individual had smashed up or damaged. I would then encourage local business to refuse to have these people on their premises, if it was done collectively they would be made into social pariahs and it would take all of their time getting members of their own families to feed,clothe and generally look after them. This might make people stop and think of the consequences of their selfish actions and might be a way forward to making Guernsey safer and instilling a sense of pride in the place and at the same time extend some consideration to the other people who live on it. Report abuse What a fantastic idea – completely isolate petty criminals from society. That’ll make them want to take some responsibility for their actions and become a contributing member of society. Errrrr, won’t it? Report abuse What is quite interesting in this debate about how to punish, is that no one has mentioned the fact that just a short time ago, the GP reportd on how the Community Service scheme was under threat due to funding. I think that an increase in fines, to make them truely hard hitting needs to be introduced, remove the option to do the time in prison (which then means we lose money from the fine not being paid, and they are costing the tax payer for their time incareated). Proceeds from the fine’s should be diverted into the community service scheme, to ensure it continues to run. And why not make these offenders wear something like an orange jump suit that clearly indicates that they are doing what they are doing as a form of punishment, let the embarassment factor take an effect too. The service that one faces can first be to rectify the misdemeanour that they were convicted for where appropriate ie cleaning up the vandalism etc then they can carry out charitable odd jobs like painting the cheshire homes etc. They could also be put to work as manual labour on states projects – how much money could it of saved if the builders of the new schools etc could of used some free labour? Just a thought. Report abuse Phil. Instead of being sarcastic, how about you suggest something? More Hotel Les Nicolles I suppose, and liberal wishy washy touchy feely we must try and understand them claptrap which has got us where we are now. Report abuse Ray The system both you and Mr Bee maybe refering to, is avialble now. I quote “If someone could invent a CCTV unit which could produce pictures which don’t look like they’ve been taken on a foggy night in a snowstorm then it may well be worth the investment” Just go to and click CCTV comparisons. Say no more. Report abuse Congratulations to you all. A glorious waste of time and invective, arguing semantics over who exactly said what to whom. Any of you actually going to get off your backsides and try and DO anything? Any of you give up your time to actually go and help anybody else? If you are one of those trying to make a difference, then thank you. If you’re not, then please stop this ridiculous armchair posturing and go out and find out for YOURSELF what is and isn’t being done. Don’t rely on a petty, sensationalist local paper which is more concerned with printing its own opinions than in printing anything which actually matters. Have a nice day. :o) Report abuse

. However, if you still had urls for the pages... well,they still work, and there's actually a good chance that they’ll turn up in a Google search or in an app compiler. Basically, the sites kept what they had - - they just stopped advertising it. I’ll agree that eradicating piracy at this point will be basically like trying to plug up a leaky dam with your thumb. Just as soon as you’ve got one leak sealed on one end, there will be five more leaks popping up on the other end. However, I’ll also agree with Robot 6’s assessment that it isn’t impossible for this coalition to make significant progress. I’ll reckon it’s just going to take time, patience and a dedicated staff who’s savy to the kinds of subtle tricks described above.. Anyway, maybe we're all missing the point here, so I'm definitely curious to hear what the Anime Vice community has to say about this. Do you figure these sites still have the right to put these pages up, and ceasing advertisement,like they have, is all they ought to acquiesce to? Or is there more to it? -- Tom Pinchuk is the writer of UNIMAGINABLE for Arcana Studios and HYBRID BASTARDS! for Archaia. HYBRID BASTARDS! is available here and UNIMAGINABLE is available here for pre-order on Amazon.com. With Naruto, they refuse to use the term "sensei" for any of the teachers. It's always "Master", but the anime version uses "Sensei". Both are VIZ productions. Also, they call all the justu for the manga version "art of", such as the anime may say "Shadow Clone Jutsu". The manga will say "Art of the Shadow Clone". If both are made by VIZ, why don't they match? Why is their anime more authentic then their manga? In One Piece, they removed all uses of the word "God" and replaced it with "Kami". I looked it up. This was not a change they made in Naruto where Pain referred to himself as a God. With Detective Conan, they completely removed the Japanese names of the main cast and replaced them all with European style names. In that case they ripped away the ethnic origins of the entire cast. They are no longer Japanese. How many Japanese families have someone named Harley Hartwell or Richard Moore in them unless they married into the family? This is a story that almost completely takes place in Japan, with a few short chapters that occur in New York City in a flash back. Japanese culture often plays a huge role in the solution of the cases. Even how Japanese kanji are used can play a major part to the solutions. Here is the funny thing though. The manga keeps all the Japanese names of all the suspects and the killers. So a suspect and killer is always Japanese, but no heroes can be. I think they kept maybe one or two police officers in the manga with their Japanese names. VIZ is just a bad over all publisher. They think they can get by poor quality by just producing as many as they possibly can. They often flat out refuse to even try to produce an authentic product. If they wont provide any alternative or option to their alterations. I have no problem going to scanlations alone to find the real story. It's not my preferred choice. It's just the only one provided to me as a consumer since I want the story the writer is making. Not the one that VIZ changes. When they alter story content and character names. They are basically saying that they do not even want the scanlation audience. They shouldn't complain when that audience doesn't want their edits. Many of their alterations are just flat out stupid and pointless. Such as how for Detective Conan they renamed two of the biggest known villains of the series from Gin and Vodka to Melkior and Kaspar. In this case they took two easily recognized English words and replaced them with obscure biblical names. I would feel vastly different about them if they would just provide an alternative to their edits and censorship. How is that asking too much? What are they doing publishing manga if they don't want manga culture in the product. It's akin to having the license to produce Budweiser to German, but taking out the alcohol. I used to think that if I just buy the series they don't edit so much. Perhaps they will realize that people don't want that and start making changes. Well, how the hell do I do that when the two series I want the most that they make just so happen to be two that have the highest amount of edits? What, I'm suppose to buy mangas from them that I'm not that interested in on just the hope they will stop editing the ones I want the most? All for what they should've been doing in the first place. The only reason why I cut FUNimation a break is because they provide me an option. If I don't like their edits for the dubs. I just have to hit a button on the DVDs and get the subtitles that aren't edited or altered. That's all I ask. An option and an alternative. I used to watch One Piece on fan subs sites exclusively when 4Kids was the producers to the US. Once FUNimation started handling the anime. It became far more authentic. I now use FUNimations' site nearly exclusively for all my anime needs, and I'm one of their biggest cheerleaders. I realize that there is an issue of creator rights, but what about the audience right to have the most authentic product possible? It's Japan that is getting the real story. In the US, we are getting an edited and altered version thanks to VIZ. I make no excuses for pirating US comics in the country. The audience is getting the real story that was written by the author. Names, Events, and all. Not an altered version. In that case it's the best product possible. I support publishers like Del Rey and Yen Press. They do great translations and a very authentic product. I buy their manags all the time. I currently own every Negima! published in the US. I try and encourage people to buy from these publishers. I don't want to be against VIZ, but I'm not going to support a publisher that butchers my favorite stories without offering alternatives. As you can see. I feel somewhat passionate on the subject. lol I agree on all counts except this one. What sounds foreign and exotic to Japanese ears in this case (i.e. English) just sounds utterly stupid to us; it is because they are easily recognised English words that they changed them. Melkior retains the association to alcohol (a Melchior is a wine bottle that holds 18 litres), and I guess the translator extrapolated from there and chose another of the Three Wise Men as a name. Shame they didn't choose Balthazar, that would have fit being a wine bottle size AND one of the Three Wise Men. In the Japanese anime and manga they are saying literally "Gin (jin)" and "Vodka (botoka)". Those are the Romanized version of English words. It's how they say the English words Gin and Vodka in Japanese. They are saying this in English in the Japanese version. There is no valid reason these English words had to be replaced with such obscure terms. It's utterly Idiotic. I heard there was even an editing mistake in one volume where someone screwed up in once scene and used the name "Gin" once. This even contradicts a joke that the villain Vermouth makes later on when she makes her first real appearance about how her and Vodka could make a Martini together. Vodka is all confused until Gin explains to him that a Vodka Martini is made by mixing vodka and dry vermouth. It was kind of a sexual pun. I realise they are literally saying Jin and Botoka. It doesn't stop it being utterly bizarre when spoken in English; they will have different connotations in different languages. As for the joke being mangled, that's unfortunate, but it's a part of translation and localisation; it's unlikely that the translators at the time even considered that a pun would be made of the names, as all the manga wouldn't be translated in one go but in separate volumes. Curiously enough, what DID happen at that part in the manga (with Vermouth)? I'm not defending their decision to change the names, but I realise that translation can be a pretty miserable job; damned if you change something, damned if you don't. They have to bear in mind how many people are going to be put off by Japanese names, weird villain names like Gin or Vodka and unexplained Japanese culture, versus the small (but vocal) minority who will raise high hell about every change because they have previous knowledge of the manga. I just don't see your point. How are common words like Gin and Vodka difficult for the English audience? It's no translation issue. They are more common then the variety of poisons that are used throughout the series. They are being said in English in the Japanese versions. Just use it in English for the English version as well. If you are a Japanese translator for English mangas and you find these easily recognized English words confusing. That person needs to find another job. In that scene of the manga Vermouth was again in her one her many disguises as a waitress at a restaurant. Naturally, Gin realized who she really was right away. The theme of all the bad guys of this series is that they have the code names of liquors. Gin, Vodka, Vermouth, Chianti, and Bourbon to name a few. Thanks to VIZ. That theme is destroyed. Imagine the Homunculi from Fullmetal Alchemist being named after something other then sins, but the only switched Lust and Gluttony. The word Gluttony isn't used as much as Gin in the English language. This isn't because that I get scanlations online and more the fact that a lot of the manga I started to buy as a teenager as either become hard to find or is now out of print. Maybe that is due to the drop in manga and anime popularity in the UK or maybe it's more the fact that the manga stores are trying to stock as many copies of the more popular mangas and only keep a volume or two of the less popular ones. I know that the first problem listed above can be solved by buying my manga off of the internet, but what about those younger people who like manga that cannot? That is where scanlations come in for the manga loving crowd. Instead of searching bookshelves for manga or buying them online, they can easily find the volume they want to read and read it through a computer. Now saying that doesn't mean I condone it, but perhaps there should be an easier way to obtain harder to get manga? Like perhaps the big companies could publish a volume or two online after they've gone out-of-print or just as a test to see what happens? I know that wouldn't solve the problem of scanlation sites popping all over the internet or people not going to big companies sites for their manga, but it could be a start in the right direction, after all, even if every manga company sent cease and desist letters to every scanlator online, new ones would pop up on the internet to replace them and the cycle would go on. I meant that it is BECAUSE they are common that they were changed, not that they were difficult. They're no longer exotic, foreign words to have for a codename, but everyday words that are ridiculous to have as an infamous villain's name. English words may sound exotic to Japanese-speaking people, but not to other English-speaking people. And what I meant about Vermouth's scene was whether or not the whole joke of mixing together was brushed under the rug, or they had made a new joke based on the biblical/wine size names. That makes no blinkin' sense. That they were too common so couldn't be used. If that were true. I would have to smack someone who made that call. You know what you do when you use common words as proper names. You Capitalized the first letter to make it a name. The same way how Ai's codename in when she was a member was Sherry. The didn't have that same concern with Gin Ichimaru. Because gin and vodka are common words in English, they don't have the connotation of "mysterious codename." Not that people would get confused between a character's name and a drink. And the Gin Ichimaru example doesn't really work, because his is a real name not named after the drink. Also, thanks for telling me about capitalising proper nouns in order to distinguish them from concrete or abstract nouns! The More You Know, eh? Because it surely would be better for the entire anime and manga industry if Viz just never bothered in the first place. Even though Viz is busting a nut bringing out One Piece at a break neck pace to catch up to the Japanese version, screw them for changing a name here and there. This is a niche industry that is shrinking in upon itself, and the only way it's going to hold steady is if there are always new fans, and Viz has a stranglehold on most of the most easily marketable and accessible material out there. I know I only got into anime and manga because of Viz bringing over Ranma and Battle Angel/Gunnm back in the day. Hell, Battle Angel's goofy name change from Gally to Alita even got referenced eventually in the original Japanese version. I knew the name change happened and I'm certain of other changes went through as well, but it didn't stop me from enjoying what was there, nor did it make me decide to steal either. It's not like they went and Robotech'd an entire series and the only way one would understand what's going on is by going back to the original source and re-translating it. That is one of the most ridiculously un-pratical things I think I've heard all day. Granted, it's still early. I'm sure Viz, or any other anime company would LOVE to go through and do their job multiple times over just so a small handful of fans are happy. *edit - To pull from this excellent post (full thing's linked in the original article and here) I realize it doesn't necessarily address your specific pet-peeves about name changes but still it's topical. “But official translations are wrong! I like scanlations better!”Solution: Learn to read Japanese. Not as easy as we’d like sure, but you can’t go proclaiming which translation is ‘right’ when you yourself can’t understand the original. Simple solution is fundamentally simple? Manga publishers could easily release scanlation programs (I say program so the content can be protected) that allow customers to browse their catalog of releases. They can do this with a subscription model or a-la-carte model of buying manga volumes (or maybe even chapters). The publisher could even offer discounts to customers who want to buy a hard copy of the manga after buying the digital one. There are many different ways to approach the problem, but is seems like the businessmen are afraid to move. iTunes fought back against music piracy a decade ago, why is it so hard for others to accept a new business model? It might just be my collection but it seems like Viz is a huge player in the US manga industry (over 80% of my manga comes from them). If they offered a Crunchyroll for manga I'd definitely be on board since they release most of the stuff I want to read anyways. I've never found their translations to be indecipherable, insulting or unenjoyable like others (or other) so I'd welcome their entry into digital delivery with open arms. My sentiments exactly. If it's just a small hand full of fans, why are scanlations such a large problem then? It's not impractical to publish manga to what is the base audience of manga. There is no point in supporting a publisher that doesn't put out an authentic product as designed by the original author. There are publishers who do put out authentic products, such as Del Rey and Yen Press. They are well worth support. VIZ wouldn't have to do their job multiple times if they would get it right the first time. I can proclaim which translations is right or wrong when what is translated isn't even remotely close to what it is for the Japanese version. When they make up names to replace the actual cast. That's wrong. Ai Haibara in the Japanese version is not named Anita Hailey. Kogoro Mouri is not called Richard Moore. This list could go on. When they remove the entire ethnic background of heroes so that only the heroes are no longer even Japanese, but all the killers and suspect are. That's border line bigoted. They are basically saying that only the hero can be European and do no wrong. All while saying that the Japanese are killers or suspects. When VIZ makes the discussions to alter content. They are basically saying that they don't want the scanlation audience. This isn't something as minor as not using honorifics. I see those as more window dressing. Nice to have, but not really needed. It's a big steaming pile of %$#@ that VIZ keeps the proper names for series like Naruto and Bleach, but do nothing but drastic alterations of Detective Conan. I wrote a blog entry where I explained why with these name changes to Detective Conan that a US translations will not be possible for a solution to a story in the series and have it make any sense. A Case Explained The raging purists are a niche within a niche. Scanlations are such a problem is because anime fandom expanded online where there's an obscene sense of entitlement to get whatever you like now, and for free. I'm sure there are still plenty of fansub/scanlation groups that do respect when a licensor purchases the rights to a show, they'll stop distributing their version. Then there were the little snots on the THORA site who, when Funimation asked them to stop posting up rips of series that they had the rights to, and had released, all flew into a whiny little rage. Nowhere in that discussion was there any sort of mention about the content of the translation - they simply wanted their free anime. Are the changes that Viz makes to these titles so great that they are actually taking away from the overall enjoyment of the series? I have little to no interest in Conan or OP, but the changes made to these seem rather trivial. Yeah, what 4Kids did to One Piece was legal, but it was still god awful. They removed blood, cut out many canon story arcs, changed entire meaning of scenes, removed cleavage lines, and changed black characters into white characters. It wasn't worth supporting. It was the equivalent of an anime war crime, and at the time it was the only option to the US. I put the blame of 4Kids for the poor reception of One Piece in the US. That was the countries first official introduction to the series. Now that FUNimation got the license. They are far more authentic. They keep all the story arcs, don't tamper with the art, and offer subtitled versions where they alter next to nothing. That is worth supporting, and that is why most fan sub sites took One Piece off their catalogs. None of the fan sub sites I go to have One Piece after FUNimation got it and showed they were doing it right. They took them all down. The argument in against scanlations is that its the scanlations that are getting facts wrong, but it's because the readers first experience with scanlations. They favor that as the standard.. That doesn't address the fact when publishing companies knowingly alter content that is story related. The changes to Detective Conan are not trivial when it effects plot themes and events. Which it does often. There is no valid excuse why they alter this series, but not do the same to series such as Naruto and Bleach. A "niche" is often times another term for "target audience". VIZ does just and bad alterations to mangas as 4Kids did to anime. *Shrugs* I agree that they can try and do something about scanlations, but there's no way they're going to stop it. Especially as the digitial distribution market increases. For instance I've not bought a Manga in... wow 6 years probably now. Damn... But I Have, and still regularly support webcomic authors and creators with purchases of their products. I spend much of my time connected to a computer screen and being able to read comics there is my perfered form of media. Now if the Manga companies would jump on the iPad bandwagon with their own comic ap (don't have an iPad just using it as an illistration, so if they DO have one please tell me. Make me want an iPad even more. :) ) where I can just go and read their work I'd be there in a heartbeat. Hell I'm all for a subscription webpage where I can go and read the catalogues for a flat rate or something. (That'd be ideal for me.) My point is ALL media formats have to adapt to the digital age and the digital distribution system. There will be lots of misfires and false starts, but eventually we can find a balance between what's good for the creators and what the market will bear. I would take issue with the section “It’s not available in my language!” (Full disclosure, I don't read scanslations, not really. I tried reading Death Note when it was scanned and not out in English. While it is a very good read, it is no fun reading comics on a monitor. No fun. I got to volume 2 and said "that's enough." I later bought the English books not out of any sense of morality, I just wanted to read them in a comfortable format.) , but I do dispute that buying said product is any kind of solution. Whenever I hear of a video game, manga, movie or anime that is not being brought out in any official capacity in , when the game first came out. So they didn’t get any money in the has English subtitles on the disc, so its effectively available in .. Secondly, a lot of times the rarer less popular manga's can't be found here, so I fell like I'm missing out on something I might be really interested in. Just wanted to add my two cents.

Access and the Opposition: Be Careful What You Wish For _4<< _8<< _12<< _16<< _20<< _24<< _28<< _32<< _36<< _40<< _44<< . Liquidity and the Collapse of Bear Stearns We have followed the financial crisis in part because of the relationship to executive compensation and current efforts at reform. We have also followed it because of the structural shift that has occurred in the securities markets, particularly the elimination of independent investment banks as financial intermediaries, an inevitable byproduct of the repeal of Glass-Steagall. See The "Great Fall": The Consequences of Repealing the Glass-Steagall Act. The third reason for following the crisis has been the role of regulatory agencies in the process, particularly the SEC. The Commission supervised the investment banks under the voluntary Consolidated Supervised Entity program, a system of supervision operated by the Division of Trading and Markets (then Market Regulation). Which brings us to a Bear Stearns. Bear Stearns gets less attention these days. The current financial crisis truly became inflamed with the collapse of Lehman Brothers in September 2008, a transaction that put markets on notice that everyone, even the largest financial institutions, were at risk. Inter bank rates skyrocked and lending dried up. But Lehman had been only the most immediate crisis. Months before, in March, Bear Stearns had disappeared into the acquiring arms of JP Morgan Chase, brought down at least in part by the deterioration in the market for mortgaged backed securities. Because the consequences were not as immediately dire, the transaction has tended to be overlooked, subsumbed by Lehman, AIG and Citigroup. But in many respects, it was the real beginning of the collapse. The collapse of Bear Stearns was the first of the major transactions that required considerable involvement from both the Fed and Treasury. As part of the transaction, the Fed agreed to purchase $30 billion in hard-to-trade securities, reducing the risk absorbed by JP Morgan. In effect, it was the first government bailout of the crisis. When Paulson confronted the crisis at Lehman six months later, his response may have been bailout fatique, unwilling to save yet another ailing financial institution. Bear Stearns was under the supervision of the Securities and Exchange Commission. A recent GAO Report explained the collapse, and the views of the staff, this way: - In particular, Bear Stearns, formerly a CSE [Consolidated Supervised Entity], reported that it was in compliance with applicable rules with respect to capital and liquidity pools shortly before its failure, but SEC and Bear Stearns did not anticipate that certain sources of liquidity could rapidly disappear. According to SEC officials, Bear Stearns’ failure was due to a run on liquidity, not capital. Shortly after Bear Stearns’ failure, the then SEC Chairman noted that Bear Stearns failed in part when many lenders, concerned that the firm would suffer greater losses in the future, stopped providing funding to the firm, even on a fully-secured basis with high quality assets provided as collateral. SEC officials told us that neither they nor the broader regulatory community anticipated this development and that SEC had not directed CSEs to plan for the unavailability of secured funding in their contingent funding plans. SEC officials stated that no financial institution could survive without secured funding. Rumors about clients moving cash and security balances elsewhere and, more importantly, counterparties not transacting with Bear Stearns also placed strains on the firm’s ability to obtain secured financing. Prior to these liquidity pressures, Bear Stearns reported that it held a pool of liquid assets well in excess of the SEC’s required liquidity buffer, but this buffer quickly eroded as a growing number of lenders refused to rollover short-term funding. Bear Stearns faced the prospect of bankruptcy as it could not continue to meet its funding obligations. Although SEC officials have attributed Bear Stearns’ failure to a liquidity crisis rather than capital inadequacy, these officials and market observers also stated that concerns about the strength of Bear Stearns’ capital position—particularly given uncertainty about the potential for additional losses on its mortgage-backed securities—may have contributed to a crisis of confidence among its lenders, counterparties, and customers. The explanation is not really an explanation. It is true that collapses of the magnitude of Lehaman are often directly preciptated by a liquidity crises. Lenders see the looming failure and stop lending. Enron failed when lenders stopped lending. It is not news to attribute failure to such a consequence. But the liquidity crisis merely begs the question. What happened that caused the crisis and how did the inspection staff miss the warning signs? Department of Justice Declines to Pursue Nacchio Resentencing Appeal. Poison Puts, Shareholder Voting Rights and the Need for an Even Stronger Shareholder Bill of Rights: San Antonio Fire & Policy v. Amylin Pharmaceuticals (Amending the Shareholder Bill of Rights) We have done a series of posts on San Antonio Fire & Policy v. Amylin Pharmaceuticals, a Delaware court that upheld the use of coercive contractual terms that effectively denied shareholders their voting rights. It occurred to us that this was an issue that ought to be addressed through federal regulation. The Shareholder Bill of Rights will make many changes to the governance process, some of which are designed to enhance the ability of insurgents to nominate and elect their own candidates. Thus, the provision will eliminate staggered boards and guarantee shareholder access to the company's proxy statement. As we have already noted, the legislature has adopted provisions designed to allow Delaware corporations to restrict shareholder access to the company's proxy statement. Similarly, this case points to a method that can be used by management to ensure that the insurgent directors are not elected. They can use contracts with third parties as a means of putting coercive pressure on shareholders to not side with insurgents. Thus, while the Shareholder Bill of Rights provides additional authority to include shareholder nominees in the company's proxy statement, management can take it away by having the election of these directors trigger a default on material contracts. San Antonio Fire & Policy v. Amylin Pharmaceuticals, however, demonstrates the lengths the courts in Delaware will go to to undercut these rights. The poison put in the case effectively coerced shareholders into voting against the insurgent slate. While the insurgent slate had been reduced to a minority (five directors for a twelve person board), even their election could result in the triggering of the acceleration provision for the debt. If these five directors were elected and two of the other seven resigned or died, thereby making the insurgents a majority, the poison put likely would be triggered. Moreover, evidence produced at the hearing on the matter indicated that the 2007 Notes were currently trading at less than 60 cents to the dollar. Thus, all of the note holders would likely accelerate since doing so would allow them to be paid something closer to the face amount of the debt. The court exonerated the board from having any role in the adoption of the poison puts. Likewise, the court declined to impose any obligation on the part of the board to be informed about contract provisions that materially weaken shareholder voting rights. Finally, the court adopted a test for board "approval" of the directors that effectively gave shareholders no certainty even when the board approved the insurgent directors. The approach is part of a broad problem with the Delaware courts. They resolutely refuse to impose meaningful obligations on the board. Thus, the fundamental take away from the case is that the board doesn't even need to know about contract provisions that effectively strip away shareholder voting rights. The Shareholder Bill of Rights addresses this mildly by requiring a board committee to oversee risk. It does not, however, specify the types of information that must be delivered to the committee or the committee's authority. Without these steps, as In re Citigroup shows, the Delaware courts will not interpret board duties in a way that makes the committee assume a meaningful role in the governance process. Specifying these obligations and adding to them (perhaps by requiring boards to be informed of contract provisions that substantially impair shareholder voting rights) would take the issue away from the Delaware courts and make board participation more meaningful. The opinion and assorted documents have been posted on the DU Corporate Governance web site. Corporate Profits and Corporate Political Spending: Why Companies Care and Corporate Legal Academics Should Too First, I applaud the Harvard Corporate Governance blog for posting the Cooper, Gulen & Ovtchinnikov paper on Corporate Political Contributions and Stock Returns. Documenting the ways that companies influence federal Congressional campaigns -- and hence shape the broader political and legal system to maximize corporate profit -- is a crucial endeavor if we are going to have a meaningful discussion of what we mean by "free markets." The professors' new paper, based on a sophisticated new data set of FEC-documented PAC contributions to Congressional campaigns (from 1979 to 2004) reveals positive abnormal stock returns correlating with these contributions by public companies. Obviously, the results attest to companies' powerful interest in shaping the national political environment in their favor: whether that influence is exerted in the area of financial (de)regulation, limits on shareholder lawsuits, the scope and shape of healthcare reform, climate change regulation or new standards for food and product safety. But even as this new paper (soon to be published in the Journal of Finance) documents the ways that public companies' donations to Congressional elections positively influence corporate profits, it only captures a tiny part of the picture. Part of what makes corporate political spending so tough to understand and talk about convincingly is that there are so many forms of it, and in each case, fine distinctions between what is and is not legal. Finally, there is a lot of corporate political spending which remains almostly entirely invisible. (I heard that Obama resisted allowing grand corporate expenditures at his Inaugural, no?) In addition to campaign contributions, we need to analyze corporate lobbying expenses and gifts to legislators, issue advocacy, issue-based litigation advocacy (e.g. the filing of amicus briefs in pro-business lawsuits, especially in Supreme Court cases), and gifts companies make to candidates' and sitting legislators' favorite charities - a practice which (though noted in a midJune USA Today article) is only barely recognized or studied, and is often legal. Witness the force that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has become in shaping federal law. Furthermore, as I've noted in my UCLA paper ("Pandora's Box: Managerial Discretion and the Problem of Corporate Philanthropy"), much corporate politicking can be effectuated via corporate contributions to nonprofits. In many cases, the nonprofits are even 501(c)(3) "charities" (especially educational organizations aka think tanks). Such corporate donations/payments max out at 5% of a public company's total profits -- consider what a ceiling that establishes! And there is no public disclosure requirement: neither at the company or the recipient's (fund's) side. Late Congressman Paul E. Gillmor (R- Ohio) had pressed for new disclosure of such corporate donations, but there wasn't much political support. Imagine that. Faith Stevelman/Director, Center on Business Law & Policy/Professor of Law/New York Law School/57 Worth Street/New York, NY 10013/212.431.2197 Access and the Delaware Bar Association The Delaware State Bar Association has written a comment letter on the SEC's proposal to give shareholders access to the company's proxy statement for nominees to the board. The letter was apparently unique ("To the best of our knowledge, this is the first time that the Delaware State Bar Association or any of its membership groups has ever submitted a formal written comment to the Commission."). Yet the times are unique. Predictably, the letter opposed the grant of access. The main argument was opposition to the one size fits all approach. ("Proposed Rule 14a-ll, however, would substantially limit the ability of stockholders and boards of directors to set the terms of a proxy access system, or to choose a system of proxy expense reimbursement in lieu of a proxy access regime."). The letter noted efforts by the Delaware legislature to authorize bylaws in connection with access and reimbursement of proxy expenses. - By setting forth a non-exclusive list of conditions that bylaws governing proxy access may contain, Section 112 clarifies the extent of stockholder choice in regard to proxy access, through their power (concurrent with that of the board of directors) to adopt bylaws governing the process by which directors are elected. Thus, the new provisions recognize that stockholders (or directors) may determine that a proxy access system may indeed be beneficial, and expressly authorize them to adopt such a system; at the same time, the statute gives stockholders the flexibility to determine that, with respect to any particular corporation, such a system would not be beneficial, or that a reimbursement system might provide a better alternative. There are so many things to say about this approach. If Delaware were to require that companies either allow access or require reimbursement and set thresholds at modest levels for those eligible, this would be a reasonable argument. But in reality, the argument is simply to let companies do whatever they want, which hardly protects shareholders. In fact, until the amendments to the Delaware Code (adopted presumably in anticipation that the SEC would put forth a new access proposal), companies incorporated in Delaware had no history of adopting bylaws that allowed access. Moreover, to the extent these provisions (particularly Section 112) clarfiy, they clarify the limits that can be imposed on access. The instances of companies adopting access bylaws are chronicled in The SEC, Corporate Governance, and Shareholder Access to the Board Room and there is no evidence of any predilection by Delaware companies to provide shareholders with this authority. Similarly, when matters are left to the company's discretion, the result is not a varied approach that meets the needs of multiple constituencies. The result is a categorical rule that favors management. At least this has been the case with respect to waiver of liability provisions. This was chronicled in: Opting Only in: Contractarians, Waiver of Liability Provisions, and the Race to the Bottom. In other words, the proposal is really not about access, its about limiting access. Indeed, the letter itself notes that if companies wanted to adopt access bylaws, it would be in an effort to restrict the use of access. As the letter describes: - The "great deal of comment" on this issue when a mandatory proxy access rule was proposed by the Commission in 2003 (see Access Proposal at 44) suggests that stockholders may prefer utilizing their rights under Section 112 to establish a higher (e.g., 2% in the case of a large accelerated filer) minimum ownership requirement. - In light of those comments, it is not unreasonable to expect that, if pennitted, stockholders of many corporations would choose a minimum holding period longer than the period that proposed Rule 14a-11 would establish. - Under the proposed Rule, the corporation would be required to include in its proxy materials as many as three proxy access nominees -the maximum number that the public stockholders are entitled to elect. It is conceivable, however, that the stockholders (either the public stockholders or the stockholders as a whole) would prefer to limit the number of proxy access nominees to one or two, rather than all three ofthe board seats elected by the stockholders at large. In other words, it is about wanting the preserve the right to restrict access. What the letter doesn't say is that the most likely position of most companies is to entirely deny access (perhaps by imposing requirements that are so onerous that no one can realistically meet them). The letter essentially asserts that this is not the case by pointing to the widespread adoption of majority vote provisions. The comparison is inapt. First, it overstates their popularity. While they have become common among the largest public companies, they are far less common among smaller public companies. In other words, there is reason to believe that public companies could likewise benefit from a mandatory rule requiring majority approval of directors. Second, majority vote provisions have been adopted because they in effect change little. The typical model is to require shareholders without a majority to submit a letter of resignation. Few directors failed to receive a majority (in part because of the votes they received by brokers engaging in discretionary voting, something eliminated recently by the SEC). Moreover, when that happened, the board has had the discretion to refuse to accept the letter of resignation, something that has happened on a number of occasions. Access is different. It will in fact provide a mechanism for competition with management nominees. There is no reason to believe that the bylaws will become common (as the last five years have indicated). Moreover, the bylaws proposed by shareholders will likely meet more resistance than majority vote provisions, seldom passing. This is demonstrated by the empirical evidence. In the brief period when access bylaw proposals were permitted by shareholders under Rule 14a-8, only three were submitted to shareholders, with one passing and two failing. In short, the position taken by the Delaware Bar is not really about additional corporate flexibility. It is about minimizing or eliminating a right of shareholders to engage in a meaningful effort to nominate directors to the board. It is a position entirely consistent with Delaware's role in the corporate governance process and a race to the bottom. The Chancery Court Decision Is In: Travis Laster Reports percolating around indicate that Travis Laster has been designated as the replacement for Vice Chancellor Lamb on the Delaware Chancery Court. While there is little dispute about his intellect or his disposition, there is also little dispute that he meets the traditional profile of those on the Delaware Chancery Court. He is unlikely to bring much change to a court that is increasingly being marginalized through the imposition of federal standards. It’s a Wonderful Lie: Mutual Fund Advocacy for Shareholders’ Rights, part 5 Seventy-five years after Berle and Means, we still examine corporate governance problems within their agency framework. Specifically, we see shareowners at the mercy of distant managers. Yet, the mutual fund example should show us at least one more layer. Presently, the real investors are no longer the corporate shareholders. The shareholders are now often middle class men and women. The true investors are now at the mercy of those intermediaries to advocate on their behalf. Given that mutual funds own nearly 25% of the U.S. equity markets, this is no small matter. While this topic affects more than 77 million individuals, its impact is actually broader. For those with a shareholder-centric view of corporate governance, efforts to empower shareholders can not be effective when institutional shareholders have conflicts that inhibit their willingness to pressure management. As the research shows, Advisers do not exercise their existing rights in such a way that would empower shareholders at large. As a result of this research, I suggest that corporate governance scholars and reformers use the mutual fund case to reexamine the prevailing framework. Specifically, we should shift our focus from empowerment of direct shareholders to the empowerment of the true equity investors. More than just a semantic distinction, this new framework would recognize that institutional shareholders cannot be expected to wrest power from, or demand accountability from, corporate managers. It also recognizes that after the “managerial” revolution, whereby ownership was separated from control, a further “intermediation” revolution has further divided ownership; separating risk-taking from legal title and pushing the risk-takers further away from the decisionmakers. Taking an even broader perspective, what I find most useful about looking at the investor behind the institutional shareholders is that it ends the shell game that I often see played around issues of social responsibility. Proponents of various causes are often told that corporations cannot address social issues because corporate managers have a duty to maximize long-term shareholder value and may not consider other stakeholders. Then, when one looks to the legal shareholders, for example the mutual funds, their Advisers say, “We cannot address social issues, after all, we are beholden to our investors.” Then, when we look to these underlying investors, they say overwhelmingly (in their capacities as citizens, neighbors, people of faith, and so on) that they do not want to support genocide, or environmental damage, or poor labor standards. But they actually have no idea that their own money is furthering such causes. Even if investors were informed, they have no real choices, no opportunities to make the corporations at the other end of this long intermediation chain accountable. These underlying investors, as real owners, should have a voice. In the majority, they should have the right to instruct the corporate managers who work for them how to handle large compensation packages as well as large social issues. Like owners of a closely held company, the real owners of publicly traded institutions should have the right to forgo profit in the short or long term in the interest of other principles. Giving the true investors a voice on shareholder resolutions, governance, or otherwise is a step in that direction. Excerpt from Jennifer S. Taub, “Able but Not Willing: The Failure of Mutual Fund Advisors to Advocate for Shareholders’ Rights,” Journal of Corporation Law, Vol. 34, Issue 3 (2009). It’s a Wonderful Lie: Mutual Fund Advocacy for Shareholders’ Rights, part 4 Approximately 77.7 million individuals in the United States invest in equities through stock mutual funds. When these investors put their money to work and at risk, they depend upon strong corporate governance structures at corporations (portfolio companies) held by the mutual funds that they own. Unlike direct retail investors who can take action to influence corporate governance, these 77.7 million individuals depend upon mutual fund advisers (Advisers) to advocate for them. Yet, when it comes to pushing portfolio companies for shareholder governance reforms, mainstream fund families remain passive. Even in areas where Advisers have an affirmative duty to act on behalf of the funds they manage (and thus to benefit the underlying investors in those funds), they fall short. Subject to a fiduciary standard, Advisers owe a duty of care and loyalty with respect to all services performed on behalf of the mutual fund’s owners. This includes an obligation to monitor corporate events and to cast proxy votes in the best interests of funds. Yet data show that mainstream fund Advisers overwhelmingly cast votes in favor of management and against shareholder advisory resolutions on matters including corporate governance. Many theories have been advanced for the reluctance of Advisers to take an active or even passively supportive role in matters of shareholder empowerment. Under one, the “conflict of interest theory,” Advisers favor corporate management (or disfavor corporate shareholders) because of existing or potential business ties with corporate managers. While many have argued that conflicts of interest influence Advisers to act in promanagement, antishareholder ways, very little empirical research has emerged thus far to support such claims. Accordingly, I sought to explore whether shareholder empowerment behavior is associated with an Adviser’s economic interests. I linked the 2006 corporate proxy voting records (provided by the Corporate Library) on eleven key corporate governance topics for the ten largest fund families to the defined contribution (DC) assets under management (provided by Pension and Investments) of each family’s Adviser for the year that ended December 31, 2005. The result was a statistically meaningful negative correlation between DC assets and support for shareholder resolutions. Specifically, the analysis revealed that the greater the dependency of the Adviser upon the DC channel for asset management business, the less likely the fund family will be to support shareholder-sponsored governance resolutions. Next, I considered possible explanations for this correlation, other than conflict of interest. I have grouped these into the following categories: (1) Wall Street Rule; (2) Alignment of Economic Interests; (3) Legal and Political Obstacles; (4) Cost-Benefit and the Free Rider Problem; (5) More Effective Behind the Scenes; (6) Fiduciary Duty; (7) Contract; (8) No Shareholder Demand; (9) Lack of Confidentiality; (10) Special-Interest Agenda; and (11) Lack of Expertise. While these defenses may work to explain passivity in some types of activism, none are solid explanations in the case of these corporate governance-related proxy votes. In response to the results, this paper explores a range of reforms that would help make mutual fund Advisers less dependent upon corporate clients and more accountable to investors. These include: (a) Separation of Money Management from Retirement Plan Record Keeping; (b) Pass-Through Proxy Voting and Proxy Assignments; (c) Default Proxy Assignments; (d) Best Practices for Proxy Voting and “Comply or Explain”; (e) Uniform Disclosure “Product Label” for Proxy Policies and Procedures; (f) Choice at the Point-of-Sale; and (g) a Voting Suitability Requirement. In its conclusion, this paper takes a broader perspective, suggesting that corporate governance scholars and reformers use the mutual fund case to reexamine the prevailing framework that is largely based upon the agency problem recognized in 1932 by Adolf Berle and Gardiner Means. Berle and Means saw a shift between the nineteenth- and twentieth-century business enterprises. “Persons other than those who [had] ventured their wealth” were directing industry. They recognized that the separation of ownership from control would lead to “directors or titular managers who can employ the proxy machinery to become a self-perpetuating body, even though as a group they own but a small fraction of the stock outstanding.” They identified the agency problem as a conflict between the interest of management and owners, whereby management “can serve their own pockets better by profiting at the expense of the company than by making profits for it.” In response to the fruition of their observations, much of corporate governance work focuses on that power balance between management and owners, and seeks to find ways to enhance shareholders’ rights. Or, the work looks to the failure of the boards of directors to look out for shareholders. Leading corporate governance scholar John Coffee observed, “Academics tend to plough and re-plough the same furrow over and over. Nowhere is this truer than in the case of the scholars of corporate governance, who have studied the board of directors and shareholders endlessly.” In the world beyond academia, (according to Martin Lipton, the effort to “shift control of the company from the board to shareholders has been constant and increasing.” For those who subscribe to a shareholder-centric vision of corporate governance, focusing just on direct shareholders ignores how much capitalism’s environment has changed. The concentration of ownership through pooled investment vehicles, such as mutual funds, and the growth of retirement savings plans, has led to a further revolution—an Intermediation Revolution. A staggering 69.4% of U.S. equities are owned by institutional investors. In fact, ownership is concentrated, with 100 institutions owning 52% of U.S. equities. Yet these institutional owners are often collective investment vehicles like state and union pension funds and mutual funds. In other words, they are legally constructed vehicles through which individual savers put their money at risk. Yet, those who make decisions as to the direction of those investments and those who exercise the legal rights of ownership are not the real investors, but managers or “registered investment advisers.” While “working people through their savings today hold the majority of stock in the most powerful enterprises in the world,” they are not even mere legal owners anymore. Thus, ownership is now separated again. Investment has been separated from legal title. Investors who are the risk-takers are now pushed further away from the decisionmakers, and the agency problem is amplified. Accordingly, we should shift our focus from the empowerment of shareholders to the empowerment of the underlying equity investors. More than just a semantic distinction, this new framework would recognize that institutional shareholders (such as mutual fund advisers) cannot be expected to wrest power from or demand accountability from corporate managers. The intermediaries who stand between investors and corporate managers have their own interests, which are often at odds with the investors who trust them, and at times aligned with corporate management. This is seen in the arena of proxy voting. Accordingly, the first set of reforms to help not just investors in mutual funds, but also corporate shareholders at large, should start there. Excerpt from “Able but Not Willing: The Failure of Mutual Fund Advisors to Advocate for Shareholders’ Rights,” Journal of Corporation Law, Vol. 34, Issue 3 (2009).

Authors: 266 Books: 3,236 Poems & Short Stories: 4,271 Forum Members: 70,634 Forum Posts: 1,033,546 And over 2 million unique readers monthly! Six days went past before Tamara again saw the Prince. Whether he was busy or kept away because he wished to, she did not know--and would not ask--but a piqued sensation gradually began to rise as she thought of him. "I must arrange for you to go to Tsarsk�i-S�lo to see the ceremony of the Emperor blessing the waters on the 6th of our January, Tamara," her godmother said, a day or two after the Bohemian feast. "I have seen it so often, and I do not wish to stand about in the cold, but Sonia's husband is one of the aides-de-camp, and, as you know, she lives at Tsarsk�i. Olga is going out there, and will take you with her, and you three can go on; it will interest you, I am sure." And Tamara had gladly acquiesced. Tsarsk�i-S�lo, which they reached after half an hour's train, seemed such a quaint place to her. Like some summer resort made up of wooden villas, only now they were all covered with snow. She and Countess Olga had gone together to Princess Sonia's house, and from there to the palace grounds, where they followed snow-cleared paths to a sort of little temple near the lake, where they were allowed to stand just outside the line of Cossacks and watch for the coming procession. The sky was heavy, and soon the snow began to fall intermittently in big, fluffy flakes. This background of white showed up the brilliant scarlet uniforms of the escort. Standing in long rows, they were an imposing sight. And Tamara admired their attractive faces, many so much more finely cut than the guards further on. They wore fierce beards, and they all seemed to be extremely tall and slim, with waists which would not have disgraced a girl. And, at the end of the line at the corner where they stood, she suddenly saw the Prince. He was talking to some other officers, and apparently did not see them. Tamara grew angry with herself at finding how the very sight of him moved her. The procession, soon seen advancing, was as a lesser interest, her whole real concentration being upon one scarlet form. From the time the signal was given that the Emperor had started from the palace all the heads were bare--bare in a temperature many degrees below freezing and in falling snow! It was the Prince who gave the word of command, and while he stood at attention she watched his face. It was severe and rigid, like the face of a statue. On duty he was evidently a different creature from the wild Gritzko of gipsy suppers. But there was no use arguing with herself--he attracted her in every case. Then the procession advanced, and she looked at it with growing amazement. This wonderful nation! so full of superstition and yet of common sense. It seemed astonishing that grown-up people should seriously assist at this ceremony of sentiment. First came the choir-boys with thick coats covering their scarlet gowns; then a company of singing men; then the priests in their magnificent robes of gold and silver, and then the Emperor, alone and bareheaded. Afterward followed the Grand Dukes and the standard of every guard regiment and finally all the aides-de-camps. When the Emperor passed she glanced again at the Prince. The setness of his face had given place to a look of devotion. There was evidently a great love for his master in his strange soul. When the last figure had moved beyond the little temple corner, the tension of all was relaxed, and they stood at ease again, and Gritzko appeared to perceive the party of ladies, and smiled. "I am coming to get some hot coffee after lunch, Sonia," he called out. "I promised Marie." "Does it not give them cold?" Tamara asked, as she looked at the Cossacks' almost shaven bare heads. "And they have no great-coats on! What can they be made of, poor things?" "They get accustomed to it, and it is not at all cold to-day, fortunately," Countess Olga said. "They would have their furs on if it were. Don't you think they are splendid men? I love to see them in their scarlet; they only wear it on special occasions and when they are with the Emperor, or at Court balls or birthdays. I am so glad you see Gritzko in his." Tamara did not say she had already seen the Prince in the scarlet coat; none of her new friends were aware that they had met before in Egypt. All this time the guns were firing, and soon the ceremony of dipping the cross in the water was over, and the procession started back again. It was the same as when it came, only the priests were wiping the cross in a napkin, and presently all passed out of sight toward the palace, and the three ladies walked quickly back to the waiting sleigh, half-frozen with cold. About ten minutes after they had finished lunch, and were sitting at coffee in Princess Sonia's cosy salon--so fresh and charming and like an English country house--they heard a good deal of noise in the passage, and the Prince came in. He was followed by a sturdy boy of eight, and carried in his arms a tiny girl, whose poor small body looked wizened, while in her little arms she held a crutch. "We met in the hall--my friend Marie and I," he said, as he bent to kiss Princess Sonia's hand, and then the other two ladies', "and we have a great deal to say to one another." "These are my children, Mrs. Loraine," Princess Sonia said. "They were coming down to see you; but now Gritzko has appeared we shall receive no attention, I fear," and she laughed happily, while the little boy came forward, and with beautiful manners kissed Tamara's hand. "You are an English lady," he said, without the slightest accent. "Have you a little boy, too?" Tamara was obliged to own she had no children, which he seemed to think very unfortunate. "Marie always has to have her own way, but while she is with Gritzko she is generally good," he announced. "How splendidly you speak English!" Tamara said. "And only eight years old! I suppose you can talk French, too, as well as Russian?" "Naturally, of course," he replied, with fine contempt. "But I'll tell you something--German I do very badly. We have a German governess, and I hate her. Her mouth is too full of teeth." "That certainly is a disadvantage," Tamara agreed. "When Gritzko gets up with us he makes her in a fine rage! She spluttered so at him last week the bottom row fell out. We were glad!" Princess Sonia now interrupted: "What are you saying, Peter?" she said. "Poor Fr�ulein! You know I shall have to forbid Gritzko from going to tea with you. You are all so naughty when you get together!" There was at once a fierce scream from the other side of the room. "Maman! we will have Gritzko to tea! I love him!--Je l'aime!" and the poor crippled tiny Marie nearly strangled her friend with a frantic embrace. "You see, Maman, we defy you!" the Prince said, when he could speak. The little boy now joined his sister, and both soon shrieked with laughter over some impossible tale which was being poured into their ears; and Princess Sonia said softly to Tamara: "He is too wonderful with children--Gritzko--when he happens to like them--isn't he, Olga? All of ours simply adore him, and I can never tell you of his goodness and gentleness to Marie last year when she had her dreadful accident. The poor little one will be well some day, we hope, and so I do not allow myself to be sad about it; but it was a terrible grief." Tamara looked her sympathy, while she murmured a few words. Princess Sonia was such a sweet and charming lady. More visitors now came in, and they all drank their coffee and tea, but the Prince paid no attention to any one beyond casual greetings; he continued his absorbing conversation with his small friends. Tamara was surprised at this new side of him. It touched her. And he was such a gloriously good-looking picture as he sat there in his scarlet coat, while Marie played with the silver cartridges across his breast, and Peter with his dagger. When she and Countess Olga left to catch an early afternoon train he came too. He had to be back in Petersburg, he said. Nothing could look more desolate than the tracts of country seen from the train windows, so near the capital and yet wild, uncultivated spaces, part almost like a marsh. There seemed to be nothing living but the lonely soldiers who guarded the Royal line a hundred yards or so off. It depressed Tamara as she gazed out, and she unconsciously sighed, while a sad look came into her eyes. The Prince and Countess Olga and another officer, who had joined them, were all chaffing gaily while they smoked their cigarettes, but Gritzko appeared to be aware of everything that was passing, for he suddenly bent over and whispered to Tamara: "Madame, when you have been here long enough you will learn never to see what you do not wish." Then he turned back to the others, and laughed again.. "Having to take what partner falls to one's lot! No choice! My heavens! nothing would drag me. Whatever game I play in life, I will select my lady myself." "You _are_ tiresome!" Countess Olga said. When they got to the station the Princess's coup� was waiting, as well as the Gl�boff sleigh. "Good-bye, and a thousand thanks for taking me," Tamara said, and they waved as Countess Olga drove off. And then the Prince handed her into the coup� and asked her if she would drop him on the way. For some time after they were settled under the furs and rushing along, he seemed very silent, and when Tamara ventured a few remarks he answered mechanically. At last after a while: "You are going to this bridge tournament at the Varishkine's, I suppose?" he suddenly said. "It ought to be just your affair." "Why my affair?" Tamara asked, annoyed. "I hate bridge." "So you do. I forgot. But Tantine will take you, all the same. Perhaps, if nothing more amusing turns up, I will drop in one night and see; but--wheugh!" and he stretched himself and spread out his hands--"I have been impossibly _sage_ for over a fortnight. I believe I must soon break out." "What does that mean, Prince--to 'break out'?" "It means to throw off civilized things and be as mad as one is inclined," and he smiled mockingly while some queer, restless spirit dwelt in his eyes. "I always break out when things make me think, and just now--in the train--when you looked at the sad country----" "That made you think?" said Tamara, surprised. "Well--never mind, good little angel. And now good-bye," and he kissed her hand lightly and jumped out; they had arrived at his house. Tamara drove on to the Serguiefskaia with a great desire to see him again in her heart. * * * * * And so the days passed and the hours flew. Tamara had been in Russia almost three weeks; and since the blessing of the waters the time had been taken up with a continual round of small entertainments. The Court mourning prevented as yet any great balls; but there were receptions, and "bridges" and dinners, and night after night they saw the same people, and Tamara got to know them fairly well. But after the excursion to Tsarsk�i-S�lo for several days she did not see the Prince. His military duties took up his whole time, her godmother said. And when at last he did come it was among a crowd, and there was no possible chance of speech. "This bores me," he announced when he found the room full of people, and he left in ten minutes, and they did not see him again for a week, when they met him at a dinner at the English Embassy. Then he seemed cool and respectful and almost commonplace, and Tamara felt none of the satisfaction she should have done from this changed order of things. At the bridge tournament he made no appearance whatever. "Why do we see Prince Milasl�vski so seldom when we go out, Marraine?" she asked her godmother one day. "I thought all these people were his intimate friends!" "So they are, dear; but Gritzko is an odd creature," the Princess said. "He asked me once if I thought he was an _imb�cile_ or a performing monkey, when I reproached him for not being at the balls. He only goes out when he is so disposed. If some one person amuses him, or if he suddenly wants to see us all. It is merely by fits and starts--always from the point of view of if he feels inclined, never from the observance of any social law, or from obligation." "Why on earth do you put up with such manners?" Tamara exclaimed with irritation. "I do not know. We might not in any one else, but Gritzko is a privileged person," the Princess said. "You can't imagine, of course, dear, because you do not know him well enough, but he has ways and _fa�ons_ of coaxing. He will do the most outrageous things, and make me very angry, and then he will come and put his head in my lap like a child, and kiss my hands, and call me 'Tantine,' and, old woman as I am, I cannot resist him. And if one is unhappy or ill, no one can be more tender and devoted." Then she added dreamily:--"While as a lover I should think he must be quite divine." Tamara took another cup of tea and looked into the fire. She was ashamed to show how this conversation interested her. "Tatiane Sh�banoff is madly in love with him, poor thing, and I do not believe he has ever given her any real encouragement," the Princess continued. "I have seen him come to a ball, and when all the young women are longing for him to ask them to dance, he will go off with me, or old Countess Nivenska, and sit talking half the night, apparently unaware of any one else's presence." "It seems he must be the most exasperating, tiresome person one has ever heard of, Marraine," Tamara exclaimed. "He rides over you all, and you cannot even be angry, and continually forgive him." "But then he has his serious side," the Princess went on, eager to defend her favorite. "He is now probably studying some deep military problem all this time, and that is why we have not seen him,"--and then noticing the scornful pose of Tamara's head she laughed. "Don't be so contemptuous, dear child," she--said. "Perhaps you too will understand some day." "That is not very likely," Tamara said. But alas! for the Princess' optimistic surmises as to the Prince's occupations, a rumor spread toward the end of the week of the maddest orgie which had taken place at the Fontonka house. It sounded like a phantasmagoria in which unclothed dancers, and wild beasts, and unheard-of feats seemed to float about. And the Princess sighed as she refuted the gossip it caused. "Oh, my poor Gritzko! if he might only even for a while remain in a state of grace," she said. And Tamara's interest in him, in spite of her shocked contempt, did not decrease. And so the time went on. She was gradually growing to know the society better, and to get a peep at the national point of view. They were a wonderfully uncomplex people, with the perfect ease which only those at the bottom of the social ladder who have not started to climb at all, and those who have reached the top, like these, can have. They were casually friendly when the strangers pleased them, and completely unimpressed with their intrinsic worth if they did not. They seemed to see in a moment the shades in people, and only to select the best. And when Tamara came to talk seriously with even the most apparently frivolous, she found they all had the same trace of vague melancholy and mystery, as though they were grasping in the dark for something spiritual they wished to seize. Their views and boundaries of principles in action seemed to be limitless, just as their vast country seems to have no landmarks for miles. One could imagine the unexpected happening in any of their lives. And the charm and fascination of them continued to increase. It was late one afternoon when Prince Milasl�vski again came prominently into view on Tamara's horizon. She was sitting alone reading in the blue salon when he walked unceremoniously in. "Give me some tea, Madame," he said. "The Princess met me in the hall, and told me I should find you here; so now let us begin by this." Tamara poured it out and leaned back in the sofa below the beautiful Falconet group, which made--and makes--the glory of the blue salon in the Ard�cheff House. She felt serene. These two weeks of unawakened emotions and just pleasant entertainments since the day at Tsarsk�i had given her fresh poise. "And what do you think of us by now, Madame?" he asked. "I think you are a strange band," she said. "You are extremely intellectual, you are brilliant, and yet in five minutes all intelligence can fade out of your faces, and all interest from your talks, and you fly to bridge." "It is because we are primitive and unspoilt; this is our new toy, and we must play with it; the excitement will wane, and a fresh one come----" he paused and then went on in another tone-- "You in England have many outlets for your supervitality--you cannot judge of other nations who have not. You had a magnificent system of government. It took you about eight hundred years to build up, and it was the admiration of the world--and now you are allowing your Socialists and ignorant plebeian place hunters to pull it all to pieces and throw it away. That is more foolish surely, than even to go crazy over bridge!" Tamara sighed. "Have you ever been in England, Prince?" she asked. He sat down on the sofa beside her. "No--but one day I shall go, Paris is as far as I have got on the road as yet." "You would think us all very dull, I expect, and calculating and restrained," Tamara said softly. "You might like the hunting, but somehow I do not see you in the picture there--" He got up and moved restlessly to the mantlepiece, where he leaned, while he stirred his tea absently. There was almost an air of bravado in the insouciant tone of his next remark-- "Do you know, I did a dreadful thing," he said. "And it has grieved me terribly, and I must have your sympathy. I hurt my Arab horse. You remember him, Suliman, at the Sphinx?" "Yes," said Tamara. "I had a little party to some of my friends, and we were rather gay-- not a party you would have approved of, but one which pleased us all the same--and they dared me to ride Suliman from the stables to the big saloon." "And I suppose you did?" Tamara's voice was full of contempt. He noticed the tone, and went on defiantly: "Of course; that was easy; only the devil of a carpet made him trip at the bottom again, and he has strained two of his beautiful feet. But you should have seen him!" he went on proudly. "As dainty as the finest gentleman in and out the chairs, and his great success was putting his forelegs on the fender seat!" "How you have missed your meti�r!" Tamara said, and she leant back in her sofa and surveyed him as he stood, a graceful tall figure in his blue long coat. "Think of the triumph you would have in a Hippodrome!" He straightened himself suddenly, his great eyes flashed, and over his face came a fierceness she had not guessed. "I thought you had melted a little--here in our snow, but I see it is the mummy there all the same," he said. Tamara laughed. For the first time it was she who held the reins. "Even to the wrappings,"--and she gently kicked out the soft gray folds of her skirt. He took a step nearer her, and then he stood still, and while the fierceness remained in his face, his eyes were full of pain. She glanced up at him, and over her came almost a sense of indignation that he should so unworthily pass his time. "How you waste your life!" she said. "Oh! think to be a man, and free, and a great landowner. To have thousands of peasants dependent upon one's frown. To have the opportunity of lifting them into something useful and good. And to spend one's hours and find one's pleasure in such things as this! Riding one's favorite horse at the risk of its and one's own neck, up and down the stairs. Ah! I congratulate you, Prince!" He drew himself up again, as if she had hit him, and the pain in his eyes turned to flame. "I allow no one to criticize my conduct," he said. "If it amused me to ride a bear into this room and let it eat you up, I would not hesitate." "I do not doubt it," and Tamara laughed scornfully. "It would be in a piece with all the rest." He raised his head with an angry toss, and then they looked at each other like two fighting cats, when fortunately the door opened, and the Princess came in. In a moment he had laughed, and resumed his habitually insouciant mien. "Madame has been reading me a lecture," he said. "She thinks I am wasted in the Emperor's escort, and a circus is my place." Tamara did not speak. "Why do you seem always to quarrel so, Gritzko?" the Princess said, plaintively. "It really quite upsets me, dear boy." "You must not worry, Tantine," and he kissed the Princess' hand. "We don't quarrel; we are the best of friends; only we tell one another home truths. I came this afternoon to ask you if you will come to Milasl�v next week. I think Madame ought to see Moscow, and we might make an excursion from there just for a night," and he looked at Tamara with a lifting of the brows. "Then, Tantine, she could see how I cow my peasants with a knout, and grind them to starvation. It would be an interesting picture for her to take back to England." "I should enjoy all that immensely, of course," Tamara said, pleasantly. "Many thanks, Prince." "I shall be so honored," and he bowed politely; then, turning to the Princess: "You will settle it, won't you, Tantine?" "I will look at our engagements, dear boy. We will try to arrange it. I can tell you at the ballet," and the Princess smiled encouragingly up at him. "My godchild has not seen our national dancing yet, so we go to-night with Prince Miklefski and Valonne." "Then it is au revoir," he said, and kissing their hands he left them. When the door was shut and they were alone. "Tamara, what had you said to Gritzko to move him so?" the Princess asked. "I, who know every line of his face, tell you I have not seen him so moved since his mother's death." So Tamara told her, describing the scene. "My dear, you touched him in a tender spot," her godmother said. "His mother was a saint almost to those people at Milasl�v; they worshipped her. She was very beautiful and very sweet, and after her husband's death she spent nearly all her life there. She started schools to teach the peasants useful things, and she encouraged them and cared for their health; and her great wish was that Gritzko should carry out her schemes. She was no advanced Liberal, the late Princess, but she had such a tender heart, she longed to bring happiness to those in her keeping, and teach them to find happiness themselves." "And he has let it all slide, I suppose," Tamara said. "Well, not exactly that," and the Princess sighed deeply; "but I dare say these over gay companions of his do not leave him much time for the arrangement such things require. Ah! if you knew, Tamara," she went on, "how fond I am of that boy, and how I feel the great and noble parts of his character are running to waste, you would understand my grief." "You are so kind, dear Marraine," Tamara said. "But surely he must be very weak." "No, he is not weak; it is a dare-devil wild strain in him that seems as if it must out. He has a will of iron, and never breaks his word; only to get him to be serious, or give his word, is as yet an unaccomplished task. I sometimes think if a great love could come into his life it would save him--his whole soul could wake to that." Tamara looked down and clasped her hands. "But it does not seem likely to happen, does it, Marraine?" The Princess sighed again. "I would like him to love you, dear child," she said; and then as Tamara did not answer she went on softly almost to herself: "My brother Alexis was just such another as Gritzko. That season he spent with me in London, when your mother and I were young, he played all sorts of wild pranks. We three were always together. He was killed in a duel after, you know. It was all very sad." Tamara stroked her godmother's hand. "Dear, dear Marraine," she said. Then they checked sentiment and went to dress for dinner, arm in arm. They had grown real friends in these three short weeks.

The White Ninja's Legacy * * * * * * * * * * Book 1: Before His Time Diamond stood inside the grand hall of the Lin Kuei headquarters, somewhat confused as to why him and his brother Damage were called before the Grandmaster. Ninjas were only called to the grand hall for special announcements or secret missions. As Diamond scanned the room, he noticed four other ninjas, two of them the new cyber-ninja prototypes, unit LK-4D4 (codenamed Cyrax) and unit LK-9T9 (codenamed Sektor). Diamond didn't particularly like the new cyber-ninjas, the main reason being that they had no instinct. They all ran off programming and pre-determined patterns. They couldn't change plans in the middle of a mission unless they were reprogrammed, which was a major hassle in itself. They were only sent mainly for seek-and-destroy and reconnaissance missions. Those types of missions were easiest to program, for even the programmers of the cyber-ninjas were learning as they went. Seek-and-destroy and reconnaissance missions also had the lowest rate of change of the course of action. A change in the course of action would render the old programming for the cyber-ninja useless, and it would become a hassle. The two ninjas standing aside the cyber-ninjas were dressed in standard Lin Kuei attire, wearing their respective colors. The throne from which the Grandmaster would make his announcements and give assignments sat in the middle of the back of the hall, with enough room for the Grandmaster's personal guards. The hall then quickly widened, and was large enough to accommodate around ten thousand people, Diamond estimated. The grand hall was also held a variety of sparring tournaments, everything from hand to hand to weapon combat in all forms such as handicap and team battles. These tournaments helped the ninjas to hone their skills for any type of combat situation. Suddenly, a large wooden door in the far right corner of the hall opened, and in walked the Grandmaster with his two personal guards following closely behind. Instinctively, the six standing before the Grandmaster saluted by placing a clenched fist over the heart, or where the heart would be inside the cyber-ninjas. The Grandmaster did the same, then brought his arm back to his side quickly. Diamond and the others did the same, and stood straight, waiting for what the Grandmaster had to say. "At ease, Lin Kuei," the Grandmaster said with a motion of his hand. Almost simultaneously, the ninjas clasped their hands behind their backs and spread their legs slightly for comfort, except for the cyber-ninjas who merely stood at attention. The Grandmaster sat on his throne, which was pure gold molded and carved with many intricate designs. His hands curled around the rounded ends of the armrests, and the Grandmaster leaned back with a sigh as he prepared to begin. "Lin Kuei warriors, you have all probably heard by now of the insurrection and escape of two of our greatest assasins, Sub-Zero and Smoke." Diamond had been apprehensive and confused lately. Sub-Zero had taught him so much of what he knows, including some of the tricks to commanding the elements that were already roughly controlled by Diamond himself. Sub-Zero and Smoke were always open for quick sparring matches to help Diamond and themselves get better at what they do best, but it had never occurred to him that either would want to run away. Diamond had heard that in the middle of Smoke's automation process, which Diamond had also heard occurred against his will, Sub-Zero (who had already run from the Klan and the entire purpose of the automated ninjas was to capture him) broke into the sealed room and killed the technicians. He then ran out with the confused and half-programmed Smoke, who still had some human thought left in him. Smoke had become unclear of whether or not to obey his last programmed order (kill the renegade Sub-Zero) or to trust his longtime friend. "Seeing how unit LK-7T2 has not yet returned with the head of our betrayer Sub-Zero, we suspect Sub-Zero has over-rided his programming due to the process being halted in the most important stage of development by Sub-Zero's wild and reckless attack on the automation factory. The six of you are to work together to bring back the head of Sub-Zero and bring unit LK-7T2 intact so we can finish the automation process. I trust that the six of you are able to complete this mission with minimal problems. As always, if you return here before the mission is complete or if you fail to bring back unit LK-7T2, your punishment will be the same. Dismissed." The six Lin Kuei warriors saluted, then did a full one-eighty and marched single file back towards the living quarters. On the way there all Diamond could think about would be possible reasons as to why Sub-Zero ran off. He had seemed at peace within the Klan and around Diamond. It never occurred to him that Sub-Zero would suddenly up and leave like he did. Diamond wanted answers, and knew there was only one way to get them. Through Sub-Zero himself. Once inside, Diamond turned to Damage, who seemed rather calm about it all, as if nothing was bothering him. "Don't you find it odd that Sub-Zero would just run off like he did? I mean, what the hell happened? He just seemed as if he enjoyed being here all the time? Why the sudden change of heart and why suddenly running from the Klan and the raid on the automation factory?" Damage turned to Diamond, and Diamond could see in his brother's eyes that he was just as confused, if not more, by the assassin's actions. Damage merely shrugged. Then, unexpectedly, Damage leaned over and whispered as if not wanting anyone else to hear, "I'll make ya a little deal, brother. If you find Sub first, you can go ahead and find out what he was thinking when he ran off. I'll hold off. But if I find him first, you had better haul ass." Diamond felt a little better after that, but was still confused out of his mind as he got up with Damage that night for their departure. They had agreed with the other two warriors and the cyber-ninjas that they would meet to depart in the training room right after sundown. Diamond walked down the halls behind Damage, watching the sun set out the windows. He, for reasons he did not understand, felt uneasy about this mission. He wanted no part in the killing of his longtime companion Sub-Zero, but he knew that he had to do it. For leaving the Klan at any time for any reason was against the code, and any infraction against the code had only one punishment. That punishment, of course, was death. Damage and Diamond entered the training room and stood in the center of the room, seeing only the cyber-ninjas. Looking around, they saw no sign of the other two ninjas. Damage saluted the cyber-ninjas, as did Diamond. Cyrax and Sektor saluted back, then returned to their recon scanning to make sure Sub-Zero was nowhere near the Headquarters. "Guess we're early," Damage said, trying to keep Diamond's spirits. Damage knew that Diamond was incredibly uneasy about this mission, but he also knew that any mission giving to a warrior directly by the Grandmaster could not be turned down for any reason other than disability. And, much to the dismay of Diamond at this point, Diamond was one of the healthiest warriors within the walls of the grand Headquarters. "I still don't understand why I was chosen for this assignment," Diamond blurted out. "I mean, there's a lot more qualified and able warriors and assassins here that could have taken Sub-Zero out without any second thought, but the Grandmaster chose me. I don't understand." The thought of having to kill the blue assassin again hit home for Diamond. Damage turned toward his brother and shrugged. "Perhaps it's a test of your loyalty to the Klan," Damage suggested. "I wouldn't be surprised if the Grandmaster knew how much you three spent sparring and training and learning from each other." That makes sense, Diamond thought. He would want to make sure I wouldn't run off and join Sub, so he's sending me to kill him to test my loyalty to the Klan. Clever bastard. The other two ninjas came walking in from the hall opposite the one Diamond and Damage came out of right as the sun slid behind the horizon. The red Lin Kuei saluted to Damage and Diamond, followed immediately by the salute of the purple Lin Kuei. Damage, Diamond, Cyrax, and Sektor all saluted back. The six of them grouped together and began walking towards the front exit, as Damage tried to make some sort of small talk to keep the spirits of the men up. "Rain, Ermac, punctual as always. We came early expecting you guys to be waiting for us." Rain, the purple Lin Kuei, turned towards Damage, smiled under his mask, and replied, "You know me, I tend to wait right until the exact time. Ermac over here kept pushin' me along, sayin' we were gonna be late. I told him not to worry, cuz I'm a time freak. Guess he'll have to get used to that." The four ninjas had a bit of a laugh, and even Diamond felt better now. Damage seemed to be able to brighten up anything, but when it came down to business, you didn't want to be on the opposing side. He could put anyone out with a few quick strikes easily, but Sub-Zero may prove to be a different task. The blue assassin remained the undefeated contender in every tournament ever held within the walls of the headquarters. He was too strong even for Damage, Rain, or Ermac alone. Perhaps the six of them would be able to at least hold off the two renegades. An hour had passed since the departure of the six warriors, and still no sign of either Sub-Zero or Smoke. The radar detectors inside the two cyber-ninjas were pickin' up, as Diamond would say, jacksquat. It seemed odd to all of the Lin Kuei out there that Sub-Zero had found a way to elude the radars. This means that the assassins would have to search for the two renegades the old-fashioned way. Walking around blindly in a certain prescheduled path 'til someone ran face first into either Sub or Smoke. Diamond preferred it this way, without the help of little "all-knowing" machines to help him around. He believed in good old-fashioned hand-to-hand missions, and wasn't about ready to go cybernetic. Now we see how good these big hunks of metal are without the little toys, Diamond thought to himself. A slight grin spread over his face as he lowered slightly to the ground as they entered the forest north of the Lin Kuei Headquarters. Diamond looked quickly over at the other five, all of which had also lowered to a ready stance. Diamond slid soundless across the forest floor, searching from side to side tentatively, as if expecting a sudden attack from the blue assassin and LK-7T2. Walking through the forest, it suddenly hit Diamond like a bo staff to the side of the head. The radars were rather primitive, and could only pick up a solid, moving object. If Sub froze himself and Smoke cloaked, they would be invisible to radar. Diamond became a bit uneasy, knowing that Smoke could be anywhere around them. Diamond was the first to step into the clearing, and immediately saw a frozen Sub-Zero crouched down, and small puffs of smoke emitting from seemingly out of nowhere. Almost immediately, a flame pillar shot up, and from where the smoke was emitting emerged unit LK-7T2, Smoke. Smoke turned toward the ice and tapped on the head of the frozen figure, which slowly began cracking. Diamond jumped down to a fighting stance, but was dumbfounded to find that nothing was there when the ice shattered. Almost instantaneously from the rear, Sub-Zero landed a well planted left kick into the base of Diamond's back. Sub flipped off his foe and landed beside his partner and both fell to a fighting stance. Diamond hit the ground face first and winced a small bit in pain. But Diamond quickly rolled up to a fighting stance, and the three of them had a quick stare down, Diamond watching both Sub-Zero and Smoke at once. Diamond rose from his stance and stood comfortably, yet on the ready. He looked at Sub-Zero questioningly and asked, "Why'd you run? Why run from the Klan? You knew this would happen! You knew they'd send me! You know you'll have to kill me in order to survive this! Why?!?" Sub-Zero looked over at Smoke, then nodded. The renegades stood up from their stances and Smoke took a step back. "You would never understand, Diamond," the blue assassin replied rather quietly. "I've been a part of this Klan ever since I can remember. Long before either you or Damage were introduced to it. With the beginning of the automation process, I fear that the Klan showed that they were going soft. They are turning toward technology and betraying our ancestors and what they had fought for all those years ago. I fear that after witnessing what Shao Kahn did to my brother, the original Sub-Zero, the Klan became questionable as to whether the standard warrior could combat the new threat or not. So they threw away all that we had worked for a bunch of wires and programs!" Sub-Zero swung his right arm as if he cut the air. "Just LOOK what they've done to Smoke!!" he added, as a way of proving his point. "One of my best friends and a great help for you and me, and here's now a mere shadow of himself..." Sub-Zero's voice trailed off as he bowed his head, as if asking the gods to forgive him for what he had done. Diamond, now seeing the error in the ways of the Klan, felt as though he should do something himself. Yet the loyalty to the Klan still ran deep in this novice's blood, and Diamond feared that nothing he could do would ever straighten out the Klan. To contradict the Grandmaster was unheard of within the Klan, for the Grandmaster made it to his position through wisdom and loyalty. Diamond now knew that there was nothing more he could do. Slowly, Diamond lifted his own head. "Sorry, Sub....Smoke...but I cannot disobey the Grandmaster. Please try to understand." The two renegades merely nodded, and slowly dropped to their respective fighting stances. Diamond dropped down and quickly whistled as loud as possible and screamed out above the ambient sounds within the forest, "I'VE FOUND THE RENEGADES!!! HURRY!!!" With that, Sub-Zero and Diamond lunged toward each other on a collision course. The two collided, and immediately locked hands into a test-of-strength and began the agonizing task of trying to overpower the opponent. Just after the collision, Damage, Rain, Ermac, Cyrax and Sektor came into the clearing from separate sides of the field This left Smoke and Sub-Zero with no way of escaping from the circle of warriors now surrounding them. Rain and Ermac quickly charged straight for Smoke, who very easily somersaulted over the teaming combatants and fired the pitch-fork spear/grappling hook that had been embedded into the overmantle of Smoke, Spearing Ermac in the small of the back. The red Lin Kuei cried out in pain, as Cyrax and Sektor awaited their turn at the elusive Sub-Zero. Damage stood patiently, as if watching to see how well Diamond had spent the extra training time with Sub-Zero and Smoke. Meanwhile, Sub-Zero slowly began to gain advantage over Diamond and pushed him ever so slowly towards the ground. Diamond knew better than to go to his knees, for if he did he would be at the complete mercy of the blue assassin. Instead, with a burst of energy, Diamond fired a small crystal shard from each hand into Sub-Zero's, who instinctively let go and checked his hands. Though the cuts were deep, Sub-Zero merely shrugged them off and looked up to Diamond, just in time to see him fire a small crystal ball straight at Sub. The ball shattered upon impact, sending Sub-Zero flying backward, landing flat on his back with a loud thud. Smoke had by now reeled Ermac in by his back, and had lifted him up, preparing for what would be the end of the red ninja. Instead, Rain suddenly lifted an outstretched hand to the air, and to the amazement of everyone in the fighting area, thunderclouds now loomed overhead. Rain brought his hand down in a quick slash motion, and a thunderbolt sent straight from the clouds caught Smoke with deadly accuracy, which sent Smoke straight to the ground. This gave Ermac enough time to come to his senses and backflip to Rain's side. Simultaneously, the two Lin Kuei jumped down to a fighting stance, waiting for Smoke to return to his feet. Smoke kipped up into a perfect fighting stance, and prepared for another onslaught when the sound of cries of pain made all heads turn towards Diamond and Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero lay on the ground bleeding after two furious hook kicks to each side of the head, one catching his nose on the way down, breaking it. Yet the screams were not coming from him. Diamond was caught in a ice blast from Sub-Zero, but the shot only went halfway up the legs, leaving Diamond conscious enough to scream bloody murder. Diamond tried desperately to break the ice from his legs, but to no avail. Sub-Zero was slowly getting up, and Diamond knew it was only a matter of time before he became another victim of Sub-Zero. Diamond, in a last ditch attempt to break free, grabbed the crystal nunchucku hanging out of his belt. He smashed it against his leg wildly, hoping the circulation hadn't been cut off from his legs. Diamond saw Sub-Zero fast approaching, looking to take out Diamond's legs. Sub-Zero dropped into a low sliding position, seemingly gliding across the rough grass. Just before Sub-Zero was able to make contact, Diamond gave the nunchucku a quick horizontal swing, catching Sub-Zero upside the head and eliminating any thought of breaking off the white Lin Kuei's legs. Diamond again struck the frozen limb, which was luckily just covered in a thin sheet. The thin sheet around his leg shattered, and Diamond quickly broke the other sheet, freeing him. That's enough of that insanity, Diamond thought to himself. He quickly rolled back behind Sektor, Cyrax, and his older brother Damage, who quickly took up the fight against the dazed and confused assassin. Sub-Zero slowly rose to his feet, only to find that he was now out-numbered three-to-one. The blue assassin sent a spinning back hook kick towards the three Lin-Kuei, which all avoided easily. What the two cyber-ninjas did not know however that this would be a setup kick, and only Damage saw it coming. As Sub spun around, he quickly lowered himself down to a back leg sweep and spun again. Damage hopped over it, but the kick caught the cyber-ninjas off guard and were swept right off their feet, landing hard on the back of their helmets. Once again, instinct beats out programming, Diamond thought to himself, catching his breath. Diamond turned to watch Smoke, who was slowly saluting for some odd reason. Rain and Ermac rushed the half-cyborg, who quickly rose into the air, catching both Lin Kuei off guard. Smoke was nowhere to be found. As the two searched frantically, a low rumble was heard beneath the surface of the field. Diamond, frantically getting enough breath to speak, quickly yelled, "LOOK OUT!!!" But the warning was just a fraction of a second too late. As Rain looked down at the ground, the ground split open, sending Ermac sailing through the air. Smoke came flying up from the hole, and caught Rain with a stiff uppercut right under the jaw. Rain went into the air, and promptly fell back down, landing hard on the back of his head. As Rain lay unconscious, Smoke slowly crept up to the downed Lin Kuei. Smoke lifted up Rain, who had to be held up just to remain standing. Smoke slowly opened the compartment in his overmantle, and a small bomb came out, being held up by a mechanical hand. Sub-Zero glanced over just in time to see Smoke about ready to kill the red Lin Kuei ninja. Sub quickly caught Damage with a mid-kick straight in his gut, sending the brown Lin Kuei warrior to his hands and knees gasping for air. Sub-Zero ran over to Smoke and grabbed him by the shoulder. "Smoke, we have no reason to kill these warriors, only the cyborgs," Sub-Zero explained to Smoke. Smoke reluctantly put the bomb back into the compartment and dropped Rain to the ground. Smoke then turned towards Ermac, who was slowly rising to his feet after the sudden unexpected flight. Sub-Zero turned back to his opponents just in time to see a dark green net come flying at him. The blue assassin quickly fired an ice blast at the net, freezing it in mid-air. Sub merely pushed the net over, and it fell to the ground shattering into millions of tiny pieces. Damage then pulled out a black, rubber cord and flung it towards Sub-Zero, intending to wrap the cord around Sub and pull him in for a quick combo. However, the blue assassin caught the cord and sent Damage flying towards him. Once Damage arrived, Sub-Zero immediately gave Damage a left elbow to the chin, a right elbow downward to the temple, backhanded Damage across the face breaking his nose, delivered a left knee to Damage's kidney, kicked the leg out catching Damage in the temple, then spun around and caught Damage on the opposite temple with one hell of a back spinning heel kick. Damage went into the air, spinning a couple times before landing, blood flying everywhere from his mouth, nose, and the side of his head. Damage quickly pulled down his mask and opened his mouth just before spewing a mouthful of blood. Damage slid the mask back up and passed out on the ground, a victim of one of the most vicious kombos known. Sektor was the next to attempt an attack on Sub-Zero, who fired a small missile towards Sub-Zero. The blue assassin barely ducked underneath the small weapon, and came sliding toward unit LK-9T9. Before the red cyborg could react, Sub-Zero slid right into Sektor's right leg, sending the robot head over heels to the ground behind Sub. As Sub-Zero slowly rose to his feet, LK-4D4 was already on a hit-and-run attempt for the blue assassin's head. Cryax leaped into the air with a flying kick, and began his descent when Smoke turned from his two battered foes. He shot a spear right over Sub's head, causing the blue assassin to duck. The spear caught Cyrax off guard, and embedded in the metal overmantle. Cyrax returned to the ground like a huge rock, and as Smoke reeled him in, Sub-Zero went to cover his back. Sektor kipped up to his feet as Rain and Ermac also rose. Diamond, seeing a chance for an ambush, leaped into the trees surrounding the field. As the three fighters surrounded Sub-Zero and Smoke, the blue assassin ducked down, as if surrendering. The three kombatants knew better, and quickly jumped back. Sub-Zero froze himself, but backflipped into the trees at the last moment. Diamond was the only fighter to notice this, partially because he's seen Sub do that so many times, yet also because the blue assassin landed right in front of him. Almost immediately after Sub had frozen himself, there was some rustling in the trees. Suddenly, Diamond came flying from the trees, landing hard on his back. Diamond instinctively arched his back up, checking to see if his spine was still intact. However, Diamond never saw the vine creeping up toward him, and before he could even comprehend what was happening, the vine wrapped around his shin and began to pull him towards the forest. "OHHH SHIT!!!" Diamond cried out as he desperately went for his nunchucku. The vine quickly pulled him into the forest as Cyrax, Sektor, Rain, and Ermac continued their battle against Sub-Zero and Smoke as Damage lay on the ground unconcious. The vine continued to pull Diamond in deeper, who now realized that the vine had wrapped around the chain of the nunchucku, as if expecting Diamond to go for them. The white Lin Kuei watched helplessly as the trees surrounded him and then lost sight of the battle. When Diamond looked in front of him, he saw a female surrounded in the vines. She looked at Diamond, then laughed aloud. The female raised a staff and was hoisted up by one of the vines. "I am IVY!" the female began. "Now, you shall die for entering my forest." Diamond realized that the stories of spirits within the forest were partially true. She was no ordinary female, having the ability to control the vines of the forest. But she appeared to be flesh and blood. Diamond would not have long to think, however, as four vines suddenly wrapped around him, covering him. Diamond looked at a vine in front of his face, and noticed that something was trying to come out. Shit, Diamond thought. He knew he had only seconds before whatever was poking would pop through, into him. Diamond also knew the vines were slowly crushing him, so that left little time for Diamond to escape. Diamond began to concentrate on forming a small crystal ball in his hands. The crystal slowly formed and rested in his hands when Diamond found out what was trying to poke through. Thorns. The thorns stabbed into Diamond in every spot imaginable, causing him to let out a cry for help. However, the plants covering Diamond muffled his screams, barely audible to the mysterious female he now knew as Ivy. Ivy smiled under her mask, knowing that she had another victim within her grasp for the forest to feed on, when she noticed something forming around the vines. Small crystals were slowly making their way around her vines. The smile quickly faded, and Ivy began fuming. This warrior was beating the forest. A muffled yell came from the vines, and the plants shattered to the ground, leaving the white clad warrior standing there, bleeding from the many cuts from the thorns. Ivy had not had time to unleash the poison, and she was enraged at this man. "How DARE you!" Ivy cried out. With a flick of her hand, another vine came flying towards Diamond. Diamond grabbed the vine as it neared him, freezing it in a sheet of crystal almost on contact. I finally got it, Diamond said to himself. Diamond had been working with Sub-Zero up to the day he left, trying to make the freeze on contact work, but he'd only been able to get the long distance blast down. Diamond fired a blast at Ivy, catching her and freezing her in a layer of crystal. Diamond instinctively began running, as far and as fast as his bruised and battered body could take him. Diamond searched frantically for some sort of exit out of the forest, but only saw the thick trees. Knowing that it wouldn't be much longer before the female ninja would break free of the crystal encasing her, Diamond climbed up the nearest tree. As Diamond scanned the treetops from side to side. Spotting the top of the Lin Kuei HeadQuarters, Diamond leapt to the ground and began running furiously in that direction. However, Diamond had forgotten in all the confusion that returning without Sub-Zero or Smoke meant instant death for him. Diamond only thought about reporting the strange ninja to the Grandmaster. If the Lin Kuei knew of the reason behind the recent disappearances of those who went into the forest, it could possibly decrease the amount of warriors lost. After what seemed like forever, Diamond stepped into the Grandmaster's chamber. Diamond saluted, then dropped to one knee to begin his report. "Grandmaster, I have uncovered the identity of the murderer within the forest. A female ninja named Ivy dwells deep in the forest, and murders her victims using the vines in the forest to crush the life out of them. I barely escaped with my life to bring you the information. I feel that with the awareness of the attacker, the number of warriors dying in the forest shall decrease indefinitely." The Grandmaster merely nodded. "And what of the renegades?" The Grandmaster asked questioningly, putting on a perfect show to make Diamond believe he was going to be merciful on the young warrior. The Grandmaster knew Diamond had talent and skill, but defying the laws of the Lin Kuei was not a wise choice for any warrior. Not even the great Sub-Zero of old could be protected from the punishment. Diamond looked up, fear in his eyes. He realized that he returned empty-handed and would pay the price. Another thing Diamond failed to notice earlier was that the commander of the Japanese ninja klan stood aside The Grandmaster. The Grandmaster was standing next to the Lin Kuei's greatest enemy, and doing nothing! Diamond did not know of the large massacre that took place while Diamond, Damage, Rain, and Ermac were gone. The Lin Kuei was destroyed in a swift attack by the ninjas, one which was planned by The Grandmaster and his "nemisis" for quite some time. Diamond stuttered as he realized his fate, "The...They're still at large, Sir. There was a tense battle, in which Sub-Zero and Smoke were able to dominate against us. They knew much more about the forest than we did, and were able to easily take us out. They had also found a way around the Cyber-ninjas radar detectors." Diamond then realized another connection. Cyber-ninjas-. Why had no one seen that? The Grandmaster crossed his arms and looked down devilishly at the bloody Diamond, a smile spreading under his mask. Diamond's execution would not be a normal execution, but a vicious, secret one. The Grandmaster looked to his new ally, and they both nodded. "Diamond!" The Grandmaster shouted out with fury. "You have failed me! Now, you shall pay the price of those who defy the laws of the Lin Kuei! Meet your executioner, CYBER SURFER!!!" A door opened behind the Grandmaster, and a silver cyber-ninja came flying through on a hoverboard. The front of the board smacked against Diamond's face, creating a deep cut and sending blood everywhere. Diamond cried out in pain as he landed face first on the stone floor after two spins in mid air. Diamond got up instinctively as Cyber Surfer set up for another run. Surfer charged, and Diamond took to the air, hoping to knock the assassin off his board. However, Cyber Surfer back-flipped, catching Diamond in the chin with the back end of the board. Diamond landed on the stone again, and his arm went to his back as he cried out again in pain. Cyber Surfer hovered above Diamond, then raised up. As Diamond opened his eyes, the board came crashing down lengthwise, covering Diamond's body. A muffled scream came from under the board, and Surfer raised it and landed on Diamond again, with more force. Diamond cried out again, but weaker. Cyber Surfer began to work like a piston, crashing down on Diamond repeatedly. On the fifth strike, Surfer stopped and pressed down on Diamond's body. A pool of blood began to form under the board, and Cyber Surfer raised up. The silver cyber-ninja hovered back to The Grandmaster and the ninja master, and took the board from under him and held it upright. The Grandmaster cackled, admiring the work of the newest member of the cyber-ninjas. "Dispose of the body with the others," The Grandmaster ordered. As two ninjas came in and dragged the mangled, lifeless body of Diamond away, The Grandmaster turned to his ally. "Now, we wait for the rest to return, and then..." The Grandmaster told him. "We finish them off, and the destruction of the Lin Kuei will be complete." The master finished for him. Both laughed out insanely, as Cyber Surfer stood there, his board set upright. * * * * * * * * * *

ASTRONOMY , the doctrine of the heavens, and their phenomena. Astronomy is properly a mixed mathematical science, by which we become acquainted with the celestial bodies, their motions, periods, eclipses, magnitudes, distances, and other phenomena. Some, however, understand the term astronomy in a more extensive sense, as comprising in it the theory of the universe, with the primary laws of nature: in which sense it seems to be rather a branch of physics than of mathematics. The invention of astronomy has been variously given, and ascribed to several persons, several nations, and several ages. Indeed it is probable that mankind never existed without some knowledge of astronomy amongst them. For, besides the motives of mere curiosity, which are sufficient of themselves to have excited men to a contemplation of the glorious and varying celestial canopy, it is obvious that some parts of the science answer such essential purposes to mankind, as to make the cultivation of it a matter of indispensable necessity. Accordingly we find traces of it, in different degrees of improvement, among all nations. Adam, in his state of innocence, it is supposed by some of the Jewish rabbins, was endowed with a knowledge of the nature, influence, and uses of the heavenly bodies; and Josephus ascribes to Seth and his posterity a considerable knowledge of astronomy: he speaks of two pillars, the one of stone and the other of brick, called the pillars of Seth, upon which they engraved the principles of the science; and he says that the former was still entire in his time. But be this as it may, it is evident that the great length of the antediluvian lives would afford such excellent opportunities for observing the heavenly bodies, that we cannot but suppose that the science of astronomy was considerably advanced before the flood. Indeed Josephus says that longevity was bestowed upon them for the very purpose of cultivating the sciences of geometry and astronomy; observing that the latter could not be learned in less than 600 years; “for that period, he adds, is the grand year.” | An expression remarkable enough; and by which it may be supposed is meant the period in which the sun and moon come again into the same situation in which they were at the beginning of it, with regard to the nodes, apogee of the moon, &c. “This period, says Cassini, of which we find no intimation in any monument of any other nation, is the finest period that ever was invented: for it brings out the solar year more exactly than that of Hipparchus and Ptolemy; and the lunar month within about one second of what is determined by modern astronomers.” If the Antediluvians had such a period of 600 years, they must have known the motions of the sun and moon more exactly than their descendants knew them some ages after the slood. On the building of the Tower of Babel, it is supposed that Noah retired with his children, born after the flood, to the north-eastern part of Asia, where his descendants peopled the vast empire of China. And this, says Dr. Long, “may perhaps account for the Chinese having so early cultivated the study of astronomy, &c.” It is said that the Jesuit missionaries have found traditional accounts among the Chinese, of their having been taught this science by their first emperor Fo-hi, who is supposed to be the same with Noah; and Kempfer asserts that Fo hi discovered the motions of the heavens, divided time into years and months, and invented the 12 signs into which they divide the zodiac, and which they distinguish by these names following; 1, the mouse; 2, the ox or cow; 3, the tiger; 4, the hare; 5, the dragon; 6, the serpent; 7, the horse; 8, the sheep; 9, the monkey; 10, the cock or hen; 11, the dog; and, 12, the boar. They divide the heavens into 28 constellations, or classes of stars, allotting 4 to each of the 7 planets; so that the year always begins with the same planet; and their constellations answer to the 28 lunar mansions used by the Arabian astronomers. These constellations however they do not mark with the figures of animals, like most other nations, but by connecting the stars by straight lines, and denoting the stars themselves by small circles: so, for instance, the great bear would be marked thus, The Chinese themselves have many records and traditions of the high antiquity of their astronomy; though not without suspicion of great mistakes. But, on more certain authority, it is asserted by F. Gaubil, that at least 120 years before Christ, the Chinese had determined by observation the number and extent of their constellations as they now stand; the situation of the fixed stars with respect to the equinoctial and solstitial points; and the obliquity of the ecliptic; with the theory of eclipses: and that they were, long before that, acquainted with the true length of the solar year, the method of observing meridian altitudes of the sun by the shadow of a gnomon, and of deducing from thence his declination, and the height of the pole. The same missionary also says, that the Chinese have yet remaining some books of astronomy, which were written about 200 years before Christ; from which it appears, that the Chinese had known the daily motion of the sun and moon, and the times of the revolutions of the planets, many years before that period. Du Halde informs us, that Tcheou cong, the most skilful astronomer that ever China produced, lived more than a thousand years before Christ; that he passed whole nights in observing the celestial bodies, and arranging them into constellations, &c. At present however, the state of astronomy is but very low in that country, although it be cultivated at Peking, by public authority, in like manner as in most of the capital cities of Europe. The inhabitants of Japan, of Siam, and of the Mogul's empire, have also been acquainted with astronomy from time immemorial; and the celebrated observatory at Benares, is a monument both of the ingenuity of the people, and of their skill in that science. According to Porphyry, astronomy must have been of very ancient standing in the East. He informs us that, when Babylon was taken by Alexander, there were brought from thence celestial observations for the space of 1903 years; which therefore must have commenced within 115 years after the flood, or within 15 years after the building of Babel.—Epigenes, according to Pliny, affirmed that the Babylonians had observations of 720 years engraven on bricks.—Again, Achilles Tatius ascribes the invention of astronomy to the Egyptians; and adds, that their knowledge of that science was engraven on pillars, and by that means transmitted to posterity. æra. He also apprehends, that astronomy had been studied even long before this distant period, and that we are only to date its revival from thence. In investigating the antiquity and progress, above-mentioned. It appears that the fundamental epoch of the Indian astronomy, is a conjunction of the sun and moon, which took place at the amazing distance of 3102 years before Christ: and M. Bailly informs us that, by our most accurate astronomical ta bles, such a conjunction did really happen at that time. He further observes that, at present, the Indians calculate eclipses by the mean motions of the sun and moon observed 5000 years since; and that their accuracy, with regard to the solar motion, far exceeds that of the best Grecian astronomers. They had also settled the lunar motions by computing the space through which that luminary had passed in 1,600,984 days, or a little more than 4383 years. M. Bailly also informs us, that they make use of the cycle of 19 years, the same as that | ascribed by the Greeks to Meton; that their theory of the planets is much better than Ptolemy's, as they do not suppose the earth in the centre of the celestial motions, and believe that Venus and Mercury move round the sun; and that their astronomy agrees with the most modern discoveries as to the decrease of the obliquity of the ecliptic, the acceleration of the motion of the equinoctial points, &c. In the 2d vol. of the Transactions of the Royal Society of Edinburgh is also a learned and ingenious dissertation on the astronomy of the Brahmins of India, by Mr. Professor Playfair; in which the great accuracy and high antiquity of the science, among them, is reduced to the greatest probability. It hence appears that their tables and rules of computation, have peculiar reference to an epoch, and to observations, 3 or 4 thousand years before Christ; and many other instances are there adduced, of their critical knowledge in the other mathematical sciences, employed in their precepts and calculations. Astronomy, it seems, too, was not unknown to the Americans; though in their division of time, they made use only of the solar, and not of the lunar motions. And that the Mexicans, in particular, had a strange predilection for the number 13, by means of which they regulated almost every thing: their shortest periods consisted of 13 days; their cycle of 13 months, each containing 20 days; and their century of 4 periods, of 13 years each: and this excessive veneration for the number 13, arose, according to Siguenza, from its being the number of their greater gods. And it is very remarkable, that the Abbé Clavigero asserts it as a fact, that, having discovered the excess of a few hours in the solar above the lunar year, they made use of intercalary days, to bring them to an equality, as established by Julius Cæsar in the Roman Calendar; but with this difference, that, instead of one day every 4 years, they interposed 13 days every 52 years, which produces the same effect. Most authors however fix the origin of astronomy and astrology, either in Chaldea or in Egypt; and accordingly among the ancients we find the word Chaldean often used for astronomer, or, which was the same thing, astrologer. Indeed both of these nations pretended to a very high antiquity, and claimed the honour of producing the first cultivators of this science. The Chaldeans boasted of their temple or tower of Belus, and of Zoroaster, whom they placed 5000 years before the destruction of Troy; while the Egyptians boasted of their colleges of priests, where astronomy was taught, and of the monument of Osymandyas, in which, it is said, there was a golden circle of 365 cubits in circumference, and one cubit thick, divided into 365 equal parts according to the days of the year, &c. It is, indeed, evident, that both Chaldea and Egypt were countries very proper for astronomical observations, on account of the extended flatness of the country, and the purity and serenity of the air. The tower of Belus, or of Babel itself, of a great height, was probably an astronomical observatory; and the lofty pyramids of Egypt, whatever they were originally designed for, might perhaps answer the same purpose; and at least they shew the skill of this people in practical astronomy, as they are all placed with their four fronts exactly facing the cardinal points of the compass. The Chal deans certainly began to make observations soon after the confusion of languages, as appears from the observations found there on the taking of Babylon by Alexander; and it is probable they began much earlier. It hence appears that they had determined, with tolerable exactness, the length both of a periodical and synodical month. They had also discovered, that the motion of the moon was not uniform; and they even attempted to assign those parts of the orbit in which the motion is quicker or slower. We are also assured by Ptolemy that they were not unacquainted with the motion of the moon's apogee and nodes, the latter of which they supposed made a complete revolation in 6585 1/3 days, or a little more than 18 years, and contained 223 complete lunations, which period is called the Chaldean Saros. From Hipparchus, the same author also gives us several observations of lunar eclipses made at Babylon above 720 years before Christ. And Aristotle informs us, that they had many occultations of the planets and sixed stars by the moon; a circumstance which led them to conceive that eclipses of the sun were to be attributed to the same cause. They had also no inconsiderable share in arranging the stars into constellations. Nor had even those eccentric bodies the comets escaped their observation: for both Diodorus Siculus and Appollinus Myndicus, Seneca informs us, accounted these to be permanent bodies, having stated revolutions as well as the planets, but in much more extensive orbits: although others of them were of opinion, that the comets were only meteors raised very high in the air, which, blazing for a while, disappear when the matter of which they consist is consumed or dispersed. The branch of dialling was also practised among them long before the Greeks were acquainted with that science. The Egyptians, it appears from various circumstances, were much of the same standing in Astronomy as the Chaldeans. Herodotus ascribes their knowledge in the science to Sesostris; probably not the same whom Newton makes contemporary with Solomon, as they were acquainted with astronomy at least many hundred years before that æra. We learn, from the testimony of some ancient authors, many particulars relative to the state of their knowledge in astronomy; such as, that they believed the figure of the earth was spherical; that the moon was eclipsed by passing through the earth's shadow, though it does not certainly appear that they had any knowledge of the true system of the universe; that they attempted to measure the magnitude of the earth and sun, though their methods of ascertaining the latter were very erroneous; and that they even pretended to foretel the appearance of comets, as well as earthquakes and inundations; and the same is also asscribed to the Chaldeans; though these must probably have been rather a kind of astrological predictions, than observations drawn from astronomy, properly so called. This science however fell into great decay with the Egyptians, and in the time of the emperor Augustus, it was entirely extinct among them. From Chaldea and Egypt the science of astronomy passed into Phenicia, which this people applied to the purposes of navigation, steering their course by the north polar star; and hence they became masters of the sea, and of almost all the commerce in the world. | The Greeks, it is probable, derived their astronomical knowledge chiefly from the Egyptians and Phenicians, by means of several of their countrymen whovisited these nations, for the purpose of learning the different sciences. Newton supposes that most of the constellations were invented about the time of the Argonautic expedition; but it is more probable that they were, at least most part of them, of a much older date, and derived from other nations, though cloathed in fables of their own invention or application. Several of the constellations are mentioned by Hesiod and Homer, the two most ancient writers among the Greeks, and who lived about 870 years before Christ. Their knowledge in this science however was greatly improved by Thales the Milesian, and other Greeks, who travelled into Egypt, and brought from thence the chief principles of the science. Thales was born about 640 years before Christ; and he, first of all among the Greeks, observed the stars, the solstices, the eclipses of the sun and moon, and predicted the same. And the same was farther cultivated and extended by his successors Anaximander, Anaximanes, and Anaxagoras; but most especially by Pythagoras, who was born 577 years before Christ, and having resided for several years in Egypt, &c, brought from thence the learning of these people, taught the same in Greece and Italy, and founded the sect of the Pythagoreans. He taught that the sun was in the centre of the universe; that the earth was round, and people had antipodes; that the moon reflected the rays of the sun, and was inhabited like the earth; that comets were a kind of wandering stars, disappearing in the further parts of their orbits; that the white colour of the milky-way was owing to the united brightness of a great multitude of small stars; and he supposed that the distances of the moon and planets from the earth, were in certain harmonic proportions to one another. Philolaus, a Pythagorean, who flourished about 450 years before Christ, asserted the annual motion of the earth about the sun; and not long after, the diurnal motion of the earth on her own axis, was taught by Hicetas, a Syracusan. About the same time flourished at Athens, Meton and Euctemon, where they observed the summer solstice 432 years before Christ, and observed the risings and settings of the stars, and what seasons they answered to. Meton also invented the cycle of 19 years, which still bears his name. Eudoxus the Cnidian lived about 370 years before Christ, and was accounted one of the most skilful astronomers and geometricians of antiquity, being accounted the inventor of many of the propositions in Euclid's Elements, and having introduced geometry into the science of astronomy. He travelled into Asia, Africa, Sicily, and Italy, for improvements in astronomy; and we are informed by Pliny, that he determined the annual year to contain 365 days 6 hours, that he determined also the periodical times of the planets, and made other important observations and discoveries. Calippus flourished foon after Eudoxus, and his celestial sphere is mentioned by Aristotle; but he is better known by a period of 76 which he invented, containing 4 corrected Metonic periods, and which commenced at the summer solstice in the year 330 before Christ. About his time the knowledge of the Pythagorean system was carried into Italy, Gaul, and Egypt, by certain colonies of Greeks. However, the introduction of Astronomy into Greece is represented by Vitruvius in a manner somewhat different. He maintains, that Berosus, a Babylonian, brought it immediately from Babylon itself, and opened an astronomical school in the isle of Cos. And Pliny says, that in consideration of his wonderful predictions, the Athenians erected him a statue in the gymnasium, with a gilded tongue. But if this Berosus be the same with the author of the Chaldaic histories, he must have lived before Alexander. After the death of this conqueror, the sciences flourished chiesly in Egypt, under the auspices of Ptolemy Philadelphus and his successors. He founded a school there, which continued to be the grand feminary of learning, till the invasion of the Saracens in the year of Christ 650. From the founding of that school, the science of astronomy advanced considerably. Aristarchus, about 270 years before Christ, strenuously asserted the Pythagorean system, and gave a method of determining the sun's distance by the dichotomy of the moon.—Eratosthenes, who was born at Cyrene in the year 27<*> before Christ, measured the circumference of the earth by means of a gnomon; and being invited to Alexandria, from Athens, by Ptolemy Euergetes, and made keeper of the royal library there, he set up for that Prince those armillary spheres, which Hipparchus and Ptolemy the astronomer afterwards employed so successfully in observing the heavens. He also determined the distance between the tropicsto be 11/83 of the whole meridian circle, which makes the obliquity of the ecliptic in his time to be 23° 51′ 1/3.— The celebrated Archimedes, too, cultivated astronomy, as well as geometry and mechanics: he determined the distances of the planets from one another, and constructed a kind of planetarium or orrery, to represent the phenomena and motions of the heavenly bodies. To pass by several others of the ancients, who practised or cultivated astronomy, more or less, we find that Hipparchus, who flourished about 140 years before Christ, was the first who applied himself to the study of every part of astronomy, and, as we are informed by Ptolemy, made great improvements in it: he discovered that the orbits of the planets are eccentric, that the moon moved slower in the apogee than in her perigee, and, that there was a motion of anticipation of the moon's nodes: he constructed tables of the motions of the sun and moon, collected accounts of such eclipses, &c, as had been made by the Egyptians and Chaldeans, and calculated all that were to happen for 600 years to come: he discovered that the fixed stars changed their places, having a slow motion of their own from west to east: he corrected the Calippic period, and pointed out some errors in the method of Eratosthenes for measuring the circumference of the earth: he computed the sun's distance more accurately than any of his predecessors: but his chief work is a catalogue which he made of the fixed stars, to the number of 1022, with their longitudes, latitudes, and apparent magnitudes; which, with most of his other observations, are preserved by Ptolemy in his Almagest. There was but little progress made in astronomy from the time of Hipparchus to that of Ptolemy, who was | born at Pelusium in Egypt, in the first century of christianity, and who made the greatest part of his observations at the celebrated school of Alexandria in that country. Prositing of those of Hipparchus and other ancient astronomers, he formed a system of his own, which, though erroneous, was followed for many ages by all nations. He compiled a great work, called the Almagest, which contained the observations and collections of Hipparchus and others his predecessors in astronomy, on which account it will ever be valuable to the professors of that science. This work was preserved from the grievous conflagration of the Alexandrine library by the Saracens, and translated out of Greek into Arabic in the year 827, and from thence into Latin in 1230. The Greek original was not known in Europe till the beginning of the 15th century, when it was brought from Constantinople, then taken by the Turks, by George, a monk of Trapezond, by whom it was translated into Latin; and various other editions have been since made. During the long period from the year 800 till the beginning of the 14th century, the western parts of Europe were immersed in gross ignorance and barbarity, while the Arabians, profiting by the books they had preserved from the wreck of the Alexandrine library, cultivated and improved all the sciences, and particularly that of astronomy, in which they had many able professors and authors. The caliph Al Mansur first introduced a taste for the sciences into his empire. His grandson Al Mamun, who ascended the throne in 814, was a great encourager and improver of the sciences, and especially of astronomy. Having constructed proper ininstruments, he made many observations; determined the obliquity of the ecliptic to be 23° 35′; and under his auspices a degree of the circle of the earth was measured a second time in the plain of Singar, on the border of the Red Sea. About the same time Alferganus wrote elements of astronomy; and the science was from hence greatly cultivated by the Arabians, but principally by Albategnius, who flourished about the year 880, and who greatly reformed astronomy, by comparing his own observations with those of Ptolemy: hence he computed the motion of the sun's apogee from Ptolemy's time to his own; settled the precession of the equinoxes at one degree in 70 years; and fixed the obliquity of the ecliptic at 23° 35′. The tables which he composed, for the meridian of Aracta, were long esteemed by the Arabians. After his time, though the Saracens had many eminent astronomers, several centuries elapsed without producing any very valuable observations, excepting those of some eclipses observed by Ebn Younis, astronomer to the caliph of Egypt, by means of which the quantity of the moon's acceleration since that time may be determined. Other eminent Arabic astronomers, were, Arzachel a Moor of Spain, who observed the obliquity of the ecliptic: he also improved Trigonometry by constructing tables of sines, instead of chords of arches, dividing the diameter into 300 equal parts. And Alhazen, his contemporary, who wrote upon the twilight, the height of the clouds, the phenomenon of the horizontal moon, and who first shewed the importance of the theory of refractions in astronomy. Ulug Beg, grandson of the celebrated Tartar prince Tamerlane, was a great proficient in practical astronomy; he had very large instruments, particularly a quadrant of about 180 feet high, with which he made good observations. From these he determined the latitude of Samercand, his capital, to be 39° 37′ 23″; and com posed astronomical tables for the meridian of the same so exact, that they differ very little from those constructed afterwards by Tycho Brahe; but his principal work was his catalogue of the fixed stars, made also from his own observations in the year 1437. During this period, almost all Europe was immersed in gross ignorance. But the settlement of the Moors in Spain introduced the sciences into Europe; from which time they have continued to improve, and to be communicated from one people to another, to the present time, when astronomy and all the sciences, have arrived at a very eminent degree of perfection. The emperor Frederick II, about 1230, first began to encourage learning; restoring some decayed universities, and founding a new one in Vienna: he also caused the works of Aristotle, and Ptolemy's Almagest, to be translated into Latin; and from the translation of this work we may date the revival of astronomy in Europe. Two years after this, John de Sacro Bosco, that is, of Halifax, compiled, from Ptolemy, Albategnius, Alferganus, and other Arabic astronomers, his work De Sphæra, which was held in the greatest estimation for 300 years after, and was honoured with commentaries by Clavius and other learned men. In 1240, Alphonso, king of Castile, not only cultivated astronomy himself, but greatly encouraged others; and by the assistance of several learned men he corrected the tables of Ptolemy, and composed those which were denominated from him the Alphonsine Tables. About the same time also, Roger Bacon, an English monk, wrote several tracts relative to astronomy, particularly of the lunar aspects, the solar rays, and the places of the fixed stars. And, about the year 1270, Vitello, a Polander, composed a treatise on optics, in which he shewed the use of refractions in astronomy. Little other improvement was made in astronomy till the time of Purbach, who was born in 1423. He composed new tables of sines for every 10 minutes, making the radius 60, with four ciphers annexed. He constructed spheres and globes, and wrote several astronomical tracts; as, a commentary on Ptolemy's Almagest; some treatises on Arithmetic and Dialling, with tables for various climates; new tables of the fixed stars reduced to the middle of that century; and he corrected the tables of the planets, making new equations to them where the Alphonsine tables were erroneous. In his solar tables, he placed the sun's apogee in the beginning of Cancer; but retained the obliquity of the ecliptic 23° 33 1/2′, as determined by the latest observations. He also observed some eclipses, made new tables for computing them, and had just finished a theory of the planets, when he died in 1462, being only 39 years of age. Purbach was succeeded in his astronomical and mathematical labours by his pupil and friend, John Muller, commonly called Regiomontanus, from Monteregio, or Koningsberg, a town of Franconia, where he was born. He completed the epitome of Ptolemy's Almagest, which Purbach had begun; and after the death of his friend, was invited to Rome, where he made many | astronomical observations. Being returned to Nuremberg in 1471, by the encouragement of a wealthy citizen named Bernard Walther, he made several instruments for astronomical observations, among which was an armillary astrolabe, like that used at Alexandria by Hipparchus and Ptolemy, with which he made many observations, using also a good clock, which was then but a late invention. He made ephemerides for 30 years to come, shewing the lunations, eclipses, &c; and, the art of printing having then been lately invented, he printed the works of many of the most celebrated ancient astronomers. He wrote the Theory of the Planets and Comets, and a treatise on triangles, still in repute for several good theorems; computing the table of sines for every single minute, to the radius 1000000, and introducing the use of tangents also into trigonometry. After his death, which happened at Rome in 1476, being only 40 years of age, Walther collected his papers, and continued the astronomical observations till his own death also. The observations of both were collected by order of the senate of Nuremberg, and published there in 1544 by John Schoner: they were also afterwards published in 1618 by Snellius, at the end of the observations made by the Landgrave of Hesse; and lastly with those of Tycho Brahe in 1666. Walther was succeeded, as astronomer at Nuremberg, by John Werner, a clergyman. He observed the motion of the comet in 1500; and wrote several tracts on geometry, astronomy, and geography, in a masterly manner; the most remarkable of which, are those concerning the motion of the 8th sphere, or of the fixed stars; in this tract, by comparing his own observations, made in 1514, with those of Ptolemy, Alphonsus, and others, he shewed that the motion of the fixed stars, since called the precession of the equinoxes, is 1° 10′ in 100 years. He made also the first star of Aries 26° distant from the equinoctial point, and the obliquity of the ecliptic only 23° 28′. He constructed a planetarium, representing the celestial motions according to the Ptolemaic hypothesis; and he published a translation of Ptolemy's Geography, with a commentary, in which he first proposed the method of finding the longitude at sea by observing the moon's distance from the fixed stars; now so successfully practised for that purpose. Werner died in 1528, at 60 years of age. Nicolaus Copernicus was the next who made any considerable figure in astronomy, by whom indeed the old Pythagorean system of the world was restored, which had been till now set aside from the time of Ptolemy. About the year 1507 Copernicus conceived doubts of this system, and entertained notions about the true one, which he gradually improved by a series of astronomical observations, and the contemplation of former authors. By these he formed new tables, and completed his work in the year 1530, containing these, and his renovation of the true system of the universe, in which all the planets are considered as revolving about the sun, placed in the centre. But the work was only printed in 1543, underthe care of Schoner and Osiander, by the title of Revolutiones Orbium Cœlestium; and the author just received a copy of the work a few hours before his death, which happened on the 23d of May 1543, at 70 years of age. After the death of Copernicus, the science and practice of astronomy were greatly improved by many other persons, as Schoner, Nonius, Appian, Gemma Frisius, Rothman, Byrgius, the Landgrave of Hesse, &c.— Schoner reformed and explained the calendar, improved the methods of making celestial observations, and published a treatise on cosmography; but he died 4 years after Copernicus.—Nonius wrote several works on mathematics, astronomy and navigation, and invented some useful and more accurate instruments than formerly; one of these was the astronomical quadrant, on which he divided the degrees into minutes by a number of concentric circles; the first of which was divided in 90 equal parts or degrees, the second into 89, the thirdinto 88, and so on, to 46; so that, the index of the quadrant always falling upon or near one of the divisions, the minutes would be known by an easy computation.—The chief work of Appian, The Cæsarean Astronomy, was published at Ingoldstat in 1540; in which he shews, how to observethe places of the stars and planets by the astrolabe; to resolve astronomical problems by certain instruments; to predict eclipses, and to describe the figures of them; and the method of dividing and using an astronomical quadrant: at the end are added observations of 5 comets, one of which has been supposed the same with that observed by Hevelius, and if so, it ought to have returned again in the year 1789;—but it was not observed then. Gemma Frisius wrote a commentary on Appian's Cosmography, accompanied with many observations of eclipses: he also invented the astronomical ring, and several other instruments, useful in taking observations at sea; and he was the first who recommended a timekeeper for determining the longitude at sea.—Rheticus gave up his professorship of mathematics at Wittemberg, that he might attend the astronomical lectures of Copernicus; and, for improving astronomical calculations, he began a very extensive work, being a table of sines, tangents and secants, to a very large radius, and to every 10 seconds, or 1/6 of a minute; which was completed by his pupil Valentine Otho, and published in 1594. About the year 1561, William IV, Landgrave of Hesse Cassel, applied himself to the study of astronomy, having furnished himself with the best instruments that could then be made: with these he made a great number of observations, which were published by Snellius in 1618, and which were preferred by Hevelius to those of Tycho Brahe. From these observations he formed a catalogue of 400 stars, with their latitudes and longitudes, adapted to the beginning of the year 1593. Tycho Brahe, a noble Dane, began his observations about the same time with the Landgrave of Hesse, abovementioned, and he observed the great conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn: but finding the usual instruments very inaccurate, he constructed many others much larger and exacter, with which he applied himself diligently to observe the celestial phenomena. In 1571 he discovered a new star in the chair of Cassiopeia; which induced him, like Hipparchus on a similar occasion, to make a new catalogue of the stars; which he composed to the number of 777, and adapted their places to the year 1600. In the year 1576, by favour of the king of Denmark, he built his new observatory, called Uraniburg, on the small island Huenna, opposite | to Copenhagen, and which he very amply furnished with many large instruments, some of them so divided as to shew single minutes, and in others the arch might be read off to 10 seconds. One quadrant was divided according to the method invented by Nonius, that is, by 47 concentric circles; but most of them were divided by diagonals; a method of division invented by a Mr. Richard Chanceler, an Englishman. Tycho employed his time at Uraniburg to the best advantage, till the death of the king, when, falling into discredit, he was obliged to remove to Holstein; and he afterwards found means of introducing himself to the Emperor Rodolph, with whom he continued at Prague till the time of his death in 1601.—It is well known that Tycho was the inventor of a system of astronomy, a kind of Semi-PtoIemaic, which he vainly endeavoured to establish instead of the Copernican or true system. His works, however, which are very numerous, shew that he was a man of great abilities; and his discoveries, together with those of Purbach and Regiomontanus, were collected and published together in 1621, by Longomontanus, the favourite disciple of Tycho. While Tycho resided at Prague with the emperor, he prevailed on Kepler to leave the university of Glatz, and to come to him, which he did with his family and library in 1600: but Tycho dying in 1601, Kepler enjoyed all his life the title of mathematician to the Emperor, who ordered him to sinish the tables of Tycho Brahe, which he did accordingly, and published them in 1627, under the title of Rodolphine. He died about the year 1630 at Ratisbon, where he was soliciting the arrears of his pension. From his own observations, and those of Tycho, Kepler discovered several of the true laws of nature, by which the motions of the celestial bodies are regulated. He discovered that all the planets revolved about the sun, not in circular, but in elliptical orbits, having the sun in one of the foci of the ellipse; that their motions were not equable, but varying, quicker or slower as they were near to the sun or farther from him; but that this motion was so regulated, that the areas described by the variable line drawn from the planet to the sun, are equal in equal times, and always proportional to the times of describing them. He also discovered, by trials, that the cubes of the distances of the planets from the sun, were in the same proportion as the squares of their periodical times of revolution. By observations also on comets, he concluded that they are freely carried about among the orbits of the planets, in paths that are nearly rectilinear, but which he could not then determine. Besides many other discoveries, which are to be found in his writings. In Kepler's time there were many other good prosicients in astronomy; as Edward Wright, baron Napier, John Bayer, &c. Wright made several good meridional observations of the sun, with a quadrant of 6 feet radius, in the years 1594, 1595, and 1596; from which he greatly improved the theory of the sun's motion, and computed more accurately his declination, than any person had done besore. In 1599 he published also an excellent work entitled “Certain Errors in Navigation discovered and detected,” containing a method which has commonly, though erroneously, been ascribed to Mercator.—To Napier we owe some excellent theorems and improvements in spherics, besides the ever memo- rable invention of logarithms, one of the most usefut ever made in the art of numbering, and of the greatest use in all the other mathematical sciences.—Bayer, a German, published his Uranometria, being a complete celestial atlas, or the figures of all the constellations visible in Europe, with the stars marked on them, and the stars also accompanied by names, or the letters of the Greek alphabet; a contrivance by which the stars may easily be referred to with distinctness and precision. —About the same time too, astronomy was cultivated by many other persons; namely, abroad by Mercator, Maurolycus, Maginus, Homelius, Schultet, Stevin, Galileo, &c; and in England by Thomas and Leonard Digges, John Dee, Robert Flood, Harriot, &c. The beginning of the 17th century was particularly distinguished by the invention of telescopes, and the application of them to astronomical observations; an invention to which we owe the most brilliant discoveries, and all the accuracy to which the science is now brought. The more distinguished early observations with the telescope, were made by Galileo, Harriot, Huygens, Hook, Cassini, &c. It is said that from report only, and before he had seen one, Galileo made for himself telescopes, by which he discovered inequalities in the moon's surface, Jupiter's satellites, and the ring of Saturn; also spots on the sun, by which he found out the revolution of that luminary on his axis; and he discovered that the nebulæ and milky way were full of small stars. Harriot also, who has hitherto been known only as an algebraist, made much the same discoveries as Galileo, and as early, if not more so, as appears by his papers not yet printed, in the possession of the earl of Egremont. Mr. Horrox, a young astronomer of great talents, made considerable discoveries and improvements. In 1633 he found out that the planet Venus would pass over the sun's disc on the 24th of November, 1639; an event which he announced only to his friend Mr. Crabtree; and these two were the only persons in the world that observed this transit, which was also the first time it had ever been seen by mortal eyes. Mr. Horrox made also many other useful observations, and had even formed a new theory of the moon, taken notice of by Newton; but his early death, in the beginning of the year 1640, put a slop to his useful and valuable labours. About the same time flourished Hevelius, Burgomaster of Dantzic, who furnished an excellent observatory in his own house, where he observed the spots and phases of the moon, from which observations he compiled his Selenographia; and an account of his apparatus is contained in his work entitled Machina Cœlestis, a book now very scarce, as most of the copies were accidentally burnt, with the whole house and apparatus, in 1679. Hevelius died in 1688, aged 76. Dr. Hook, a contemporary of Hevelius, invented instruments with telescopic sights, and censured those of the latter; which occasioned a sharp dispute between them, and to settle which the celebrated Dr. Halley was sent over to Hevelius to examine his instruments. The two astronomers made several observations together, very much to their satisfaction, and amongst them was one of an occultation of Jupiter by the moon, when they determined the diameter of the latter to be 30′ 33.″ | Before the middle of the 17th century the construction of telescopes had been greatly improved, particularly by Huygens and Fontana. The former constructed one of 123 feet, with which he long observed the moon and planets, and discovered that Saturn was encompassed with a ring. With telescopes too, of 200 and 300 feet focus, Cassini saw five satellites of Saturn, with his zones or belts, and the shadows of Jupiter's satellites passing over his body. In 1666 Azout applied a micrometer to telescopes, to measure the diameters of the planets, and other small distances in the heavens: but an instrument of this kind had been invented before, by Mr. Gascoigne, though it was but little known abroad. To obviate the difficulties of the great lengths of refracting telescopes and the aberration of the rays, it is said that Mersennus first started the idea of making telescopes of reflectors, instead of lenses, in a letter to Descartes; and in 1663 James Gregory of Aberdeen shewed how such a telescope might be constructed. After some time spent also by Newton, on the construction of both sorts of telescopes, he found out the great inconvenience which arises to refractors from the different refrangibility of the rays of light, for which he could not then find a remedy; and therefore, pursuing the other kind, in the year 1672 he presented to the Royal Society two reflectors, which were constructed with spherical speculums, as he could not procure other figures. The inconveniences however arising from the different refrangibility of the rays of light, have since been fully obviated by the ingenious Mr. Dollond. Towards the latter part of the 17th, and beginning of the 18th century, practical altronomy it seems rather languished. But at the same time the speculative part was carried to the highest perfection by the immortal Newton in his Principia, and by the Astronomy of David Gregory. Soon after this however, great improvements of astronomical instruments began to take place, particularly in Britain. Mr. Graham, a celebrated mechanic and watchmaker, not only improved clocks and watch work, but also carried the accuracy of astronomical instruments to a surprising degree. He constructed the old 8 feet mural arch at the Royal Observatory Greenwich, and a small equatorial sector for making observations out of the meridian; but he is chiefly remarkable for contriving the zenith sector of 24 feet radius, and afterwards one of 12 1/2 feet, with which Dr. Bradley discovered the aberration of the fixed stars. The reflecting telescope of Gregory and Newton, was greatly improved by Mr. Hadley, who presented a very powerful instrument of that kind to the Royal Society in 1719. The same gentleman has also immortalized his memory by the invention of the reflecting quadrant or sector, now called by his name, which he presented to the society in 1731, and which is now so universally useful at sea, especially where nice observations are required. It appears however that an instrument similar to this in its principles, had been invented by Newton; and a description with a drawing of it given by him to Dr. Halley, when he was preparing for his voyage in 1701, to discover the variation of the needle: it has also been asserted that a Mr. Godfrey of Philadelphia in America, made the same discovery, and the first instrument of this kind. About the middle of this century, the constructing and dividing of large astronomical instruments were carried to great perfection by Mr. John Bird; and reflecting telescopes were not less improved by Mr. Short, who also first executed the divided object-glass micrometer, which had been proposed and described by M. Louville and others, Mr. Dollond also brought refracting telescopes to the greatest perfection, by means of his acromatic glasses; and lately the discoveries of Herschel are owing to the amazing powers of reflectors of his own construction. Thus the astronomical improvements in the present century, have been chiefly owing to the foregoing inventions and improvements in the instruments, and to the establishment of regular observatories in England, France, and other parts of Europe. Roemer, a celebrated Danish Astronomer, first made use of a meridional telescope; and, by observing the eclipses of Jupiter's satellites, he first discovered the progressive motion of light, concerning which he read a differtation before the Academy of Sciences at Paris in 1675.—Mr. Flamsteed was appointed the first Astronomer Royal at Greenwich in 1675. He observed, for 44 years, all the celestial phenomena, the sun, moon, planets, and fixed stars, of all which he gave an improved theory and tables, viz, a catalogue of 3000 stars with their places, to the year 1689; also new solar tables, and a theory of the moon according to Horrox; likewise, in Sir Jonas Moore's System of Mathematics, he gave a curious tract on the doctrine of the sphere, shewing how, geometrically to construct eclipses of the sun and moon, as well as occultations of the fixed stars by the moon. And it was upon his tables that were constructed, both Halley's tables, and Newton's theory of the moon.—Cassini also, the first French Astronomer Royal, very much distinguished himself, making many observations on the sun, moon, planets and comets, and greatly improved the elements of their motions. He also erected the gnomon, and drew the celebrated meridian line in the church of Petronia at Bologna. In 1719 Mr. Flamsteed was succeeded by Dr. Halley, as Astronomer Royal at Greenwich. The Doctor had been sent at the early age of 21 to the island of St. Helena, to observe the southern stars, and make a catalogue of them, which was published in 1679. In 1705 he published his Synopsis Astronomiæ Cometicæ, in which he ventured to predict the return of a comet in 1758 or 1759. He was the first who discovered the acceleration of the moon, and he gave a very ingenious method for finding her parallax by three observed phases of a solar eclipse. He published, in the Philosophical Transactions, many learned papers, and amongst them some that were concerning the use that might be made of the next transit of Venus in determining the distance of the sun from the earth. He composed tables of the sun, moon, and all the planets, which are still in great repute; with which he compared the observations he made of the moon at Greenwich, amounting to near 1500, and noted the differences. He recommended the method of determining the longitude by the moon's distances from the sun and certain fixed stars; a method which had before been noticed, and which has since been carried into execution, more particularly at the instance of the present Astronomer Royal. About this time a dispute arose concerning the figure of the earth. Sir Isaac Newton had determined, from a consideration of the laws of gravity, and the diurnal motion of the earth, that the figure of it was an oblate | spheroid, and flatted at the poles: but Cassini had determined, from the measures of Picart, that the figure was an oblong spheroid, or lengthened at the poles. To settle this dispute, it was resolved, under Lewis XV, to measure two degrees of the meridian; one near the equator, and the other as near the pole as possible. For this purpose, the Royal Academy of Sciences sent to Lapland, Mess. Maupertuis, Clairault, Camus, and Le Monier; being also accompanied by the Abbé Outhier, and by M. Celsus, professor of anatomy at Upsal. And on the southern expedition were sent Mess. Godin, Condamine, and Bouguer, to whom the king of Spain joined Don George Juan and Don Antonio de Ulloa. These set out in 1735, and returned at different times in 1744, 1745, and 1746; but the former party, who set out only in 1736, returned the year following; having both fulfilled their commissions. Picart's measure was also revised by Cassini and De la Caille, which after his errors were corrected, was found to agree very well with the other two; and the result of the whole served to confirm the determination of the figure before laid down by Newton.—On the southern expedition, it was found that the attraction of the great mountains of Peru had a sensible effect on the plumb-line of one of their largest instruments, deflecting it 7 or 8 seconds from the true perpendicular. On the death of Dr. Halley, in 1742, he was succeeded by Dr. Bradley, as Astronomer Royal at Greenwich. The accuracy of his observations enabled him to detect the smaller inequalities in the motions of the planets and fixed stars. The consequence of this accuracy was, the discovery of the aberration of light, the nutation of the earth's axis, and a much greater degree of perfection in the lunar tables. He also observed the places, and computed the elements of the comets which appeared in the years 1723, 1736, 1743, and 1757. He made new and accurate tables of the motions of Jupiter's satellites; and from a multitude of observations of the luminaries, he constructed the most accurate table of refractions yet extant. Also, with a very large transit instrument, and a new mural quadrant of 8 feet radius, constructed by Mr. Bird in 1750, he made an immense number of observations for settling the places of all the stars in the British catalogue, together with near 1500 places of the moon, the greater part of which he compared with Mayer's tables. Dr. Bradley died in 1762. In the mean time the mathematicians and astronomers elsewhere were assidnous in their endeavours to promote the science of astronomy. The theory of the moon was particularly considered by Messrs Clairault, D'Alembert, Euler, Meyer, Simpson, and Walmsly, and especially Clairault, Euler, and Mayer, who computed complete sets of lunar tables; those of the last of these authors, for their superior accuracy, were rewarded with a premium of 3000 pounds by the Board of Longitude, who brought them into use in the computation of the Nautical Ephemeris, published by that Board.—The most accurate tables of the satellites of Jupiter were composed, from observations by Mr. Wargentin, an excellent Swedish astronomer.—Among the many French astronomers who contrib<*>ted to the advancement of the science, it was particalarly indebted to M. De la Caille, for an excellent set of solar tables. And in 1750 he went to the Cape of Good Hope to make observations in concert with the most celebrated astronomers in Europe, for determining the parallax of Mars and the moon, and thence, that of the sun, which it was concluded did not much exceed 10 seconds. Here he re-examined and adjusted, with great accuracy, the stars about the southern pole; and also measured a degree of the meridian. —In Italy the science was assiduously cultivated by Bianchini, Boscovich, Frisi, Manfredi, Zanotti, and many others; in Sweden by Wargentin already mentioned, Blingenstern, Mallet, and Planman; and in Germany by the Eulers, Mayer, Lambert, Grischow, and others. In the year 1760 all the learned Societies in Europe made preparations for observing the transit of Venus over the sun, which had been predicted by Dr. Halley more than 80 years before, and the use that might be made of it in determining the sun's parallax, and the distances of the planets from the sun. And the same exertions were repeated, to observe the transit in 1769, by sending observers to different parts of the world, for the more convenience in observing. And from the whole, Mr. Short computed that the sun's parallax was nearly 8 3/5 seconds, and consequently the distance of the sun from the earth about 24114 of the earth's diameters, or 96 millions of miles. Dr. Bradley was succeeded, in 1762, in his office of Astronomer Royal, by Mr. Bliss, Savilian professor of astronomy; who being in a declining state of health, did not long enjoy it. But, dying in 1765, was sueceeded by the learned Nevil Maskelyne, D. D. the present Astronomer Royal, who has discharged the duties of that office with the greatest honour to himself, and benesit to the science. In January 1761 this gentleman was sent by the Royal Society, at a very early age, to the Island of St. Helena, to observe the transit of Venus over the sun, and the parallax of the star Sirius. The sirst of these objects partly failed, by clouds preventing the sight of the 2d internal contact; and the 2d also, owing to Mr. Short having suspended the plumbline by a loop from the neck of the central pin. However, our astronomer indemnified himself by many other valuable observations: Thus, he observed at St. Helena, the tides; the horary parallaxes of the moon; and the going of a clock, to sind, by comparison with its previous going which had been observed in England, the difference of gravity at the two places: also, in going out and returning, he practised the method of finding the longitude by the lunar distances taken with a Hadley's Quadrant, making out rules for the use of seamen, and taught the method to the ossicers on board the ship; which he afterwards explained in a l<*>tter to the Secretary of the Royal Society, inserted in the Philos. Trans. sor the year 1762, and still more fully afterwards, in the British Mariner's Guide, which he published in the year 1763. He returned from St. Helena in the spring of 1762, after a stay there of 10 months; and in September 1763 sailed for the island of Barbadoes, to settle the longitude of the place, and to compare Mr. Harrison's watch with the time there when this gentleman should bring it out: another object was also to try Mr. Irwin's marine chair, which he did in his way out. While at Barbadoes, he also made many other observations, and amongst them, many relating to the moon's horary parallaxes, not yet published. Returning to England in the latter part of the year 1764, he was | appointed in 1765 to succeed Mr. Bliss as Astronomer Royal, and immediately recommended to the Board of Longitude the lunar method of finding the longitude, and proposed to them the project of a Nautical Almanac, to be calculated and published to facilitate that method; this they agreed to, and the first vol. was published for 1767, and it has continued ever since under his direction, to the great benefit of navigation and universal commerce. A multitude of other useful writings by this gentleman are inserted in the volumes of the Philos. Trans. and particularly in consequence of a proposal, made by him to the Royal Society, the noble project was formed of measuring very accurately the effect of some mountain on the plumb line, in deflecting it from the perpendicular; and the mountain of Schehallien, in Scotland, having been found the most convenient in this island for the purpose, at the request of the Society, he went into Scotland to conduct the business, which he performed in the most accurate manner, shewing that the sum of the deflections on the two opposite sides was about 11 3/5 seconds of a degree; and proving, to the satisfaction of the whole world, the universal attraction of all matter. From the data resulting from these measures I have computed the mean density of the whole matter in the earth, which I have found to be about 4 1/2 times that of common water. Besides many learned and valuable papers in the Philosophical Transactions, and the most assiduous exertions in the duties of the observatory, as abundantly appears by the curious and voluminous observations which he has published, the world is particularly obliged to his endeavours with the Board of Longitude, for the publication of the Nautical Ephemeris, and the method of observing the longitude, by the distances of the moon and stars, now adopted by all nations, and by which the practice of Navigation has been brought to the greatest perfection. Finally, the discoveries of Dr. Herschel form a new æra in astronomy. He first, in 1781, began with observations on the periodical star in Collo Ceti, and a new method of measuring the lunar mountains, none of which he made more than half <*> mile in height: and, having constructed telescopes vastly more powerful than any former ones, he proceeded to other observations, concerning which he has had several papers printed in the Philosophical Transactions; as, on the rotation of the planets round their axes; On the parallax of the fixed stars; Catalogues of double, triple, &c stars; On the proper motion of the sun and solar system; On the remarkable appearances of the solar regions of the planet Mars, &c. And, above all, his discovery of a new primary planet, on the 13th of March 1781, which he calls the Georgian Planet, but it is named the Planet Herschel by the French and other foreign astronomers; by which, and its two satellites, which he has also discovered since that time, he has greatly enlarged the bounds of the solar system, this new planet being more than twice as far from the sun as the planet Saturn. Lists and historical accounts of the principal writings and authors on astronomy are contained in Weidler's History of Astronomy, which is brought down to the year 1737. There is also Bailly's History of astronomy, ancient and modern. For this purpose, consult also the following authors, viz, Adam, Vossius, Bayle, Chauffepié, Niceron, Perraut, the chronological table of Riccioli, and that of Sherburn, at the end of his edition of Manilius; also the first volume of De la Lande's astronomy. The more modern, and popular books on astronomy, are very numerous, and well known: as those of Ferguson, Long, Emerson, Vince, De la Lande, Leadbetter, Brent, Keil, Whiston, Wing, Street, &c, &c.

• Second Greek bailout decision delayed until March 9 • Van Rompuy elected for second term as EC President • Juncker: Greece has implemented all bailout measures • ISDA: Greek debt deal is not a 'credit event' • Merkel: we cannot resist pressure to increase bailout fund • Schaeuble: no decision on scale of firewall at EU summit Latest 23.32 That's all from the Live Blog for today. We'll be back tomorrow. Don't forget to check out the Telegraph Finance page for the latest business news. 22.28 Herman Van Rompuy, President of the European Council, has said that EU leaders have commended Greece for its decisive action over the past 10 days to meet bailout criteria. He adds that the leaders agreed to accelerate payments of ESM paid-in capital, and that the combined size of ESM/EFSF can be reassessed by finance ministers later this month. 22.04 EU leaders agree to make Serbia a candidate for membership of EU. 21.10 The US markets have closed for the day. The Dow Jones was up 0.24pc, the S&P 500 was 0.63pc higher and the Nasdaq gained 0.8pc. 20.38 There have been protests in Lisbon today over austerity measures being taken by Portugal. 20.05 A "top official" has told Reuters that Hungary expects to sign a precautionary funding deal with the IMF and the EU in the second quarter, which should lower the country's borrowing costs. 19.42 Here's one for the photo album. Europe's leaders pose for a picture before heading in to the summit. 19.25 Talking of growth in Europe, as David Cameron currently is: Damian Reece's latest comment is on a recent debate at the Cambridge Union,. 18.57 Herman Van Rompuy has been elected for a second 2 ½ year term as President of the European Council. There was a vote of confidence held during the summit this evening on Rompuy's handling of the crisis so far, and he made the cut. 18.51 David Cameron travelled to Brussels this afternoon for the summit, saying on the way in to the meeting that his main focus would be on how to drive growth across Europe: Europe does not just face a debt crisis, Europe also faces a growth crisis. And Britain, together with 11 other European countries, has come together and set out a whole series of measures that the European Union could take that would help drive growth, including deregulating businesses to set them free to create more jobs. That's the agenda I am going to be driving at this European Council and the aim is to get as many of those measures approved as possible. 18.19 The finance ministers meeting is over, but EU leaders are yet to meet and discuss how to drive growth. Here are some of the highlights from leaders as they entered the meeting: Angela Merkel: We will first sign the fiscal treaty. That is an important step. We have shown a capacity to act towards a stability union of the EU. It is a qualitatively new step because it make possible a political union. So I am happy that the majority of EU members will be part of the fiscal treaty. I think that is a very, very important sign for the EU member states who show how they will guarantee stability in the future. Finnish PM Jyrki Katainen: This meeting is not a crisis meeting, it's more like a regular meeting, in which we try to find a way for growth in the European area. It's not crisis management, but it's almost as important. Swedish PM Fredrik Reinfeldt: I think it's very important now that we, after a long discussion to get new rules and regulations, that we actually follow those. I think the criticism has been that Europe discusses on a long term what kind of conditions you should have, like the Growth and Stability Pact, but at the end of the day we end up not using them. This time we need to follow it and that goes for everyone, I would say. And of course he's trying to say that the status of the Spanish economy might be even worse than we thought. That just shows the need for even more reforms. 17.41 Venizelos has said that it's early days for the debt swap, and too soon for private bondholders to be declaring their participation. He expects this will happen nearer to the March 9 deadline. 17.22 Greek finance minister Evangelos Venizelos says that he expects high private sector participation in the upcoming bond swap. Which is lucky, because the other eurozone finance ministers just told him that there will be no bailout cash until the matter's resolved. Straight after this afternoon's meeting he signed five agreements on the bond swap and other bailout measures, something which "sends a message to the private sector", the markets and the international community that the official sector supports Greece in every act". 17.10 Time for a graph showing European market performance over the last few weeks. As usual, you can toggle individual markets on and off by clicking on their names in order to get a zoomed-in look at those remaining. 16.57 European markets don't seem to be startled by the lack of a decision in Brussels this afternoon, and shares closed up. The FTSE 100 gained 1.02pc on the day, the DAX rose 1.25pc and the CAC climbed 1.37pc. 16.48 So, the eurozone finance ministers meeting has finished, and they've basically said that the fate of the second bailout package all rests on the Greek debt swap. They need to get bondholders to take a loss on their investments. Or at least most of them, then force the others to take part with the CAC legislation. But that could trigger a "credit event". The German finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, says that the bailout depends on participation of the private sector, and that the final decision will be taken in a conference call on March 9. 16.42 Our man in Brussels, Bruno Waterfield has just read Jean-Claude Juncker's full statement, and helpfully sums it up for us: • They've agreed what's needed to allow the PSI (debt swap) to go forward, with the caveat that participation must be high. • The next Greek instalment, needed before 20 March, still awaits a troika report on implementation in the 'next few days'. 16.39 The BBC's Martin Greig disagrees with the ISDA's assessment of the situation in Greece: 16.38 We've just stumbled across this brilliant parody of a Kickstarter page for Greece from McSweeney's. If you're unfamiliar with Kickstarter, it's a website where you upload a business plan or some other proposal, and others can fund a small part of the required capital to get it off the ground if they think it has potential.. We promise these funds will be used only to pay down debt, and any funds received above the requested amount will be rolled over to our next, inevitable Kickstarter campaign. 16.27 Juncker has added that the second Greek bailout is still conditional on a successful bond swap. The ISDA ruled today that the bond swap was not a "credit event", after it was. 16.13 Greece has met the conditions required for aid, says Jean-Claude Juncker. It has fulfilled the list of prior actions eurozone leaders ordered before greenlighting a new bailout. Greece has implemented all the measures we asked it to, things are progressing well. 16.05 Gold has slipped this week, but Ian Cowie writes that this could be just the start of a much larger fall: Sharp falls in the gold price have prompted some bears or pessimists to predict it will plunge below $1,000 an ounce.. 15.48 There's a steady stream of data from the US this afternoon, including a 0.1pc slip in construction spending in January. It doesn't seem to have dampened spirits on Wall Street, though. A fall in jobless claims earlier on is still keeping the markets up. 15.32 While we wait for news to emerge from Brussels, the yield on 10-year Italian and Spanish debt has dipped below 5pc and markets are making gains around the world. It all seems rather positive, but remember that much of it is down to the ECB having poured €530bn of cheap cash into European banks this week. 15.14 More US data now: the Commerce Department says that personal income rose weakly in January, and that rising prices kept spending flat. Nominal incomes rose 0.3pc in January after a 0.5pc increase in December. Consumer spending was up just 0.2pc following a less than 0.1pc rise in December. 15.11 The US markets have opened for the day, gaining in the first few minutes on positive jobless data (see 13.59). The Dow Jones is 0.24pc higher, the S&P 500 is up 0.35pc and the Nasdaq gained 0.27pc. 15.01 Next to arrive is Angela Merkel. Earlier today she admitted that Germany cannot resist pressure to increase the bailout fund forever - leaving the door opening to combining the temporary EFSF and its permanent replacement, the ESM. 14.36 The summit is getting started in Brussels now, and pictures are starting to come in of the great and the good greeting each other as they arrive. Here's the Greek Finance Minister Venizelos with Eurogroup chairman Juncker. 14.08 We've heard what the ISDA has to say on the Greek debt deal: it doesn't count as a "credit event" (although it left the door open for a re-think should the CAC - new legislation that can be used to force reluctant bondholders to take a loss - be brought into play). But what do you believe? Cast your votes below. 13.59 We have some positive data from the US, just ahead of the markets opening on Wall Street: new claims for unemployment benefits fell slightly last week. A total of 351,000 initial jobless claims were filed in the week ending February 25, a decline of 2,000 from the prior week's upwardly revised number of 353,000, the Labor Department said. 13.45 There was a "social summit" in Brussels this morning that brought together the unusual combination of the heads of state and employment ministers of Denmark, Cyprus and Ireland, and the President of the EC. The meeting focused on driving growth and tackling unemployment. José Manuel Barroso has just released this statement:. Our common aim should be to give our young people a perspective. To give them hope. And be clear that we will not tolerate that, in some of our member states, a generation of young people is condemned to long-term unemployment. 13.22 Confused? FT Alphaville's Lisa Pollack explored the semantics in a blog this morning entitled Greece CDS: trigger happy: Here’s the cut down version of the new request (see 07.47): Does (i) … (the “PSI Agreement”) … (ii) the enactment of … (the “CAC Law”) and (iii) the statement by the Ministry of Finance of the Hellenic Republic on 21 February 2012 that the CAC Law can be used together with the PSI Agreement to achieve participation in the offer …, constitute a Restructuring Credit Event… Just a guess here, but this one seems to be on thin ice. It relies on a “statement” by the Ministry of Finance. Submitted as evidence is a link to a press release from the Ministry, which states the following in a bigger announcement of the PSI: If passed, this law will be AVAILABLE to be used in the implementation of the PSI transaction if necessary to achieve participation at the levels anticipated by the 26 October 2011 Euro Summit Statement. “Will be available” does not mean “will definitely use”. This looks more like a threat than something that is strictly forced, hence no dice for a trigger. Of course, it’s widely anticipated that the CAC will be used, but it’s hardly something that one can classify as a certainty. 13.09 Which leads to this next point: 12.51 There was this caveat:. 12.49 The decision was unanimous, says the ISDA, which answered two questions: 1.) "whether the holders of Greek law bonds had been subordinated to the ECB and certain NCBs whose bonds were acquired by the Hellenic Republic prior to the implementation of new Greek legislation [collective action clauses that will force private holders of Greek debt to accept losses as long as two-thirds agree to the debt swap] such that such subordination constitutes a Restructuring Credit Event." and 2.) "whether there had been any agreement between the Hellenic Republic and the holders of private Greek debt which constitutes a Restructuring Credit Event". In other words... Question: Are my CDS worth the paper they're written on? ISDA: No. Read the full statement here. The ISDA has ruled that the Greek debt swap is not a "credit event" 12.40 BREAKING The International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA) has ruled that a "credit event" has not occured for Greece. This means insurance will not be paid out on CDS contracts. 12.28 Speaking at the London School of Economics yesterday, Mr Necas said he would not sign the new fiscal compact today, but did not rule out joining in the future: As part of the negotiations regarding the fiscal compact, the Czech Republic achieved the change of Article 15 of the compact which makes it possible for the Czech Republic to join the fiscal compact in the future if it chooses so [...] If you look at the accession treaty we are still bound [...] by the rule on adopting the euro [...] should a country outside the euro zone choose to adopt the euro it automatically has to sign several agreements and one of them is the fiscal compact. 12.20 David Cameron has met with Czech counterpart and fellow EU treaty dissenter Petr Necas ahead of the EU summit this afternoon. Mr Cameron described him as "a very good colleague and friend": We work together in the European Union on the vital agenda of trying to drive growth in the European Union, we have got an important council meeting coming up and we will both be pushing for more action on the single market - on the digital single market, energy single market, services single market - to get the European economies to grow. The two men will travel to Brussels together later. All smiles: David Cameron and Petr Necas shake hands outside 10 Downing Street today (Photo: AFP) 11.48 A senior official also told Brussels correspondent Bruno Waterfield this morning that the Greek bailout package “takes CDSs into account and the system can cope if it's just Greece". 11.40 According to the Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation (DTCC) which provides clearing information on a whole range of securities and derivatives that you and I have never heard of, there are more than 4,000 actively traded contracts on Greek sovereign debt, which add up to a gross value just shy of €70bn. This equates to a notional net (or payout) value of €3.2bn. The graph below (also in Tuesday's blog) is Societe Generale's estimate of net CDS exposure in selected eurozone countries. Lauren Rosborough argues that "the size of net exposure to outstanding bonds for Spain, Italy, and Portugal [and Greece is] very small suggesting that contagion risk is limited (although such a comparison is indicative at best, as parameters are unknown given that these countries are not in bond swap discussions)." 11.11 The International Swaps and Derivatives Association's (ISDA) jaw-jaw on whether the Greek debt swap will trigger insurance payments should be underway (see 07.47). There's been another question submitted this morning to the ISDA which basically asks if the debt swap constitutes a "credit event" because bondholders will get back less than expected on their initial investments. We'll find out if the ISDA is willing to answer this new question later. 10.50 A bad deal for Greece. That is the conclusion of Open Europe's latest briefing note on the Greek tragedy. Here is a summary of its main points: • Greece's bailout is a bank bailout. Of the total amount (€282.2bn) that is entailed in the various measures now on the table to save Greece – only €159.5bn, or 57pc will actually go to Greece itself. The rest will go to banks and other bondholders. • Under recent proposals, the total level of budget cuts Greece is expected to undergo stands at a massive 20pc of GDP by 2013. No country has ever gone through such a large level of fiscal consolidation – successful or otherwise. • At the start of this year, 36pc of Greece’s debt was held by taxpayer-backed institutions (ECB, IMF, EFSF). By 2015, following the voluntary restructuring and the second bailout, the share could increase to as much as 85pc, meaning that Greece’s debt will be overwhelmingly owned by eurozone taxpayers. • This means that in the event of a likely default, a huge chunk of the losses will fall on European taxpayers, potentially leading to significant political fallout in countries such as Finland, the Netherlands and Germany. Read the full note online. Open Europe calculates that of the total amount that is entailed in the various measures on the table to save Greece, only 57pc will go to Greece itself. 10.43 Commenting on the French auction, Peter Chatwell at Credit Agricole, said: Really strong demand for the French paper with all lines coming way above secondary market prices. French paper is really well placed to benefit from the LTRO in that it acts as a safe haven for excess liquidity, plus it should benefit from improved risk appetite. Explicitly the LTRO bid should appear in the shorter maturities, but nevertheless the sentiment works its way along the curve and that is reflected here. 10.37 France also sold a range of long-term debt (ranging from five to 14 years) at lower rates. Demand was strong, with four bidders for every bond on offer at its five-year auction. 10.35 Spain has sold €4.5bn in three separate auctions this morning. The Treasury sold two year debt at average interest rates of 2.069pc, three-year bonds at average rates of 2.617pc, and four-year debt at average rates of 3.376pc. Interest rates on the three-year issue were almost 0.5pc lower than at the last auction. Two words: carry trade. 10.12 More bad news for the eurozone this morning. Euro-area unemployment in January rose to an all-time high of 10.7pc, compared with 10.6pc in December 2011, according to EU statistics office Eurostat. This means that 16.9m people in the eurozone are now out of work. Youth unemployment in the euro-area also rose to 21.6pc in January, compared with 21.3pc in December. Eurostat said youth joblessness in Spain was just shy of 50pc, while Greek youth unemployment is now at 48.1pc. Unemployment in Spain stood at 23.3pc in January, according to Eurostat (Photo: AFP) 10.01 Bruno also highlights this admission by German Chancellor Angela Merkel in today's Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper: Angela Merkel will agree to an increase in the eurozone's bailout fund - but not at today's euro summit. The German Chancellor told Sueddeutsche Zeitung that: "In the long run we cannot resist this pressure." The dropping of Germany's opposition will allow the temporary European Financial Stability Facility to be combined with a new permanent European Stability Mechanism in the summer, taking the euro bailout funds to €750 billion. The decision will allow the IMF to boost €150 million euros in promised resources form the eurozone to create a new €400 million facility for credit lines. It will be controversial in Germany - German exposure to the debt crisis will rise from €211 billion to €280bn. German Chancellor Angela Merkel (Photo: Getty) 09.50 Another busy day for our man in Brussels, Bruno Waterfield. He outlines some of the issues on the agenda at the EU summit, and what officials have been telling him this morning: Eurogroup finance ministers meet earlier this afternoon to sign off on Greece, with an assessment of whether it is moving fast enough on reforms. It is thought to be a done deal but some EU officials are worried that the Germans or Dutch may indulge in brinkmanship to squeeze a bit more out of the Greeks. David Cameron will be plugging his letter, signed by 11 other countries including Italy and Spain, containing proposals for growth driven by liberal EU single market reform. Diplomats are now saying that the Prime Minister's December veto has worked “out of the system”, particularly after he dropped his opposition to using EU institutions to enforce the new fiscal union treaty for the eurozone. 09.47 Commenting on the UK manufacturing data, Philip Shaw at Investec,. 09.38 Rob Dobson, senior economist at Markit, highlighted the impact of a eurozone slowdown on the UK economy:. UK manufacturing growth over the past decade (Photo: Markit) 09.32 Meanwhile, UK manufacturing growth slowed last month. Markit's UK manufacturing Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) fell to 51.2 in February, from a revised 52.0 in January, as cost pressures offset employment growth in the sector. 09.24 Markit on Greece:. The steep decline continues. Markit said that Greece had experienced the most severe reduction in output and new orders recorded in nearly 13 years of data collection (Photo: Markit). 09.15 The eurozone's manufacturing sector contracted for the seventh month in a row in February, with Greek output and new orders at a record low, and only Austria seeing "any meaningful improvement". Markit's eurozone manufacturing Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) edged up to 49 in February, from 48.8 in January, but is still below the 50 mark that divides growth from contraction. Greece's reading was 37.7. Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said: There is still lots to worry about. “Although output showed a slight improvement, new orders continued to fall, meaning companies generally remain reluctant to expand capacity and take on new workers, often preferring instead to cut costs and prepare for tough times ahead. The rate of job creation has even slipped to near-stagnation in Germ outlook. “The periphery remains the major concern. The rate of decline of the Greek manufacturing economy accelerated further, with output and orders dropping at the fastest rates since the survey began in 1999. Steep rates of decline were also evident in Spain and Italy, although an easing in the rate of decline in the latter raises hope that the worst for the region’s third-largest economy. 08.58 Bundesbank President Jens Weidmann issued a starker warning to Mr Draghi yesterday. He warned that the ECB's relaxation of rules could endanger its reputation. Mr Weidmann also said that risks stemming from some ECB policies could prove costly to Germany, which has bankrolled much of the eurozone's rescue operation. In a letter to Mr Draghi obtained by Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, he called for a return to the stricter rules in place before the financial crisis began. 08.49 Former ECB board member Lorenzo Bini Smaghi warns in this morning's FT that cheap loans create "a disincentive for eurozone commercial banks to restructure their balance sheets and strengthen their capital base," and stops them from standing on their own two feet. He writes:. 08.45 The business pages are also filled with analysis of yesterday's second "Draghi bazooka" of emergency ECB loans, which blasted an additional €529.5bn into the European banking system. Ambrose Evans-Pritchard believes ECB President Mario Draghi has placed a €1 trillion bet with the latest round of his LTRO. There is a dark side to the Draghi magic. Spanish banks used the first LTRO to boost holdings of sovereign debt by 29pc to €230bn, with a similar pattern in Italy. The weakest banks are buying the weakest government bonds, often in volumes that exceed their equity base. 08.30 European markets have edged down this morning. The FTSE 100 in London is down 0.16pc at 5861.93, while the CAC 40 in Paris is 0.5pc lower, and Frankfurt's DAX 30 is down 0.4pc. 08.24 Meanwhile, UK house prices have recorded their strongest monthly rise in nearly two years, according to Nationwide. Prices in February rose 0.6pc - the highest monthly increase since a 1.3pc jump in April 2010. The average house price is now £162,712, 0.9pc higher than the same period last year. 08.16 Lots of data out this morning. The Swiss economy grew more than expected in the final three months of the year - expanding by 0.1pc on a quarterly basis. Economist expected a 0.1pc contraction. The State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO) also estimated that the economy grew 1.9pc in 2011, compared with 2.7pc in 2010. Commenting on the figures, Joerg Zeuner at VP Bank, said: Favorable growth in the fourth quarter must not overshadow the challenging situation Switzerland's economy still faces. Even though leading indicators have stabilised, there is still little sign of a return to growth. Swiss luxury watchmaker Rolex. The State Secretariat for Economic Affairs estimated that the Swiss economy grew 1.9pc in 2011, compared with 2.7pc in 2010 (Photo: Alamy). 07.56 More than 500 entrepreneurs and business leaders have written to the Telegraph to warn that the 50p tax rate is “damaging the economy”. Robert Winnett reports:”. The. 07.52 Here's a quick look at the business stories making the headlines this morning: 07.47 The International Swaps and Derivatives Association, which officially decides when a 'default' is a default, will hold a conference call at 11am (UK time) "to determine whether a credit event has occurred." This will determine whether holders of Greek debt can claim insurance on their losses. An announcement is expected later today. 07.43 The EU leaders will also discuss jobs and growth. European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said yesterday that the two-day summit was likely to be a calmer affair than the previous do-or-die summits. Speaking at a pre-European Council press conference, Mr Barroso said: I'm sure you will agree, a little less drama will do no one any harm. 07.35 Decisions, decisions. A day after the Dutch and Finns gave the green light to the second Greek bailout, eurozone finance ministers will meet this afternoon to cross the "t"s and dot the "i"s on the indebted country's latest rescue package. UK Prime Minister David Cameron will then join EU leaders for a separate meeting where 25 of the 27 EU members will sign a new "fiscal compact" committing them to tougher Brussels scrutiny. Britain and the Czech Republic will not sign the new compact, while Ireland will hold a referendum to decide whether if it will commit to the new rules. Mr Cameron dramatically vetoed a formal EU Treaty change last December (Photo: PA) 07.30 Good morning and welcome back to our live coverage of the eurozone debt crisis. Debt crisis live: archive

POETRY _______________________________________________ Fat I’m so fat Fat with anger Fat with sadness Fat with jealously Fat with self-hate Fat all the way So tell me how Can I be Skinny? ————————————————————————————— My Teacher I am afraid at just the thought of you The way you hurt me, I will never forgive You made me not trust people anymore Sometimes, I just don’t know how to live Sometimes I even doubt myself Did you really put your hands on me? Don’t you see what you’ve done? This is what I’ve become You took my innocence away from me I think of bad things now, because of you I’m not longer a child anymore What happened to me is like a tattoo It will never fade away, but I have to try I can’t let you control me anymore I will finally be free Now I say goodbye to what happened And I look forward to the future I actually forgive you for what you did I now understand you’re a little undid But I actually have to thank you You helped me find new friends And you helped me find my voice So now things are at an end ____________________________________________________ STORIES: “A Reason To Stay” Most people aren’t who they appear to be. In fact, most likely they are the exact opposite. And we judge people on this. If they wear a short short skirt they must be a whore, and if they shop at Hot Topic they have to be emo or goth. Sometimes I used to wear short skirts, but I bought them at Hot Topic. So, what type do I fit into? Slut, Geek, Jock, or Emo? What to know the answer? None of the above. Because I’m not a person—I’m a ghost. You’re probably thinking, what the hell?! My thoughts exactly when I found out I was dead. Well my first words were “Ow!” but that’s beside the point. So you ask, what’s the point of me dying? Not to stare at hot guys, and them not realize it (but that is fun!) Nooo, apparently I have to stay on Earth, until I’m needed. Bullshit, right? My point exactly! Obviously God doesn’t think the same way I do. He has this whole philosophy that we needed to be needed by someone, and then after we serve our purpose down here, we’ll be sent up to Heaven to live peacefully for the rest of our lives. Really, I just want to able to just relax, and do nothing. But there is some part of me that wants to be needed by someone. I mean, I’ve been dead for a week, At least during that time everyone knew I was alive, and chose to ignore me. Here’s a good thing about me dying, they can ignore me fully now. But, before they could do that, there was a funeral for me. On a whim and to see how much people cared, I went to the cemetery where it was being held. You want to know a secret? I stayed there for the whole thing, and no one showed up. Not even my mom. Although, I shouldn’t blame her, she couldn’t handle loss that well. She normally dives into baking more stuff for the bakery, which is doing very successful since I passed. It seems like everyone is trying to make her feel better since the tragedy. Plus, the donuts are fucking amazing. Yes, I’m a 15 year old ghost girl who eats donuts. Ain’t that special? Throw me some dog treats, why don’t ya? I kinda doubt they would though. All you would see is a dangling donut, with nothing attached to it. Talk about calling ghostbusters. I could only imagine how it must look. I try to sit down on a nearby bench and of course I phase through. God allows us ghosts to eat and drink, but not sit? I’m guessing he’s trying to promote an exercise program. Hello, we’re dead, hence we don’t gain weight. Neither do we gain muscle. I mean come on, even Sam and Dean’s ghosts can sit down. Can’t I be like one of Supernatural’s ghosts? Please?! I groan after I hear no response, and then focus on the sun that is setting. I can’t help but smile. The purples, reds, and yellows seem to be splashed on by a paint can. But the painting seems to be missing something. Ah, yes, the finishing piece. Here they come now, and right in my way too. A couple is making out right in front of my view of the sunset. I cock my head to the right and watch them play doctor with their tongues. Each tongue is trying to be the tongue depressor by trying to keep each other’s tongue down. It’s quite disturbing, and depressing. If I saw this a while back, I would have been even more afraid of doctors. And tongue depressors. Not saying that I wasn’t afraid of them when I was little. I think it’s probably because you are going to die eventually, so why prolong the inevitable? Or maybe I’m just bitter. But who could blame me? I died before my first kiss, first date, first everything. I could have had the opportunity to ask someone for my firsts, but I assumed I would have time. Something I learned? Assume nothing. After five minutes, and multiple burning of my eyes, the couple is gone. My smile is back when I see the colors of the sunset, and my mind starts to go back to my childhood. My mom used to tell me that mother Mary would grace the sky, watching us all, and that’s why the sky was different colors. Each color expressed her emotion at that time she was watching someone. Red would mean love and war, purple means mystery, yellow is happiness and wisdom. Of course, like always, right above me is an unknown color. I scowl at my bad luck, and wonder at how ironic this is. Because honey, I don’t even know what I am. When I look back at the sunset, another person is standing in my way. This time, a sophomore, who is wearing a white tanktop, and pink skinnies. By his body type, and style you could obviously tell he was a skateboarder. I always hated skaters. When my eyes reached his feet, a pang in my chest rang out. He wasn’t wearing any shoes. This was always a close thing in my heart. I hated when I saw homeless people around. Especially when the person was so young. When I told my mom how I felt she told me that they wanted to live like that… I wonder if he did too… ANDREW’S POV: “Wish I could have saved her… Only a freshmen… She was so young…” I sit down by the nearby fountain, and run my hand through the water. “Annabelle… Please forgive me…” “Forgive me for ignoring you… I never had the guts to talk to you. You seemed so quiet and intense when you were on the bus. All you did on the bus was read a book and listen to your music. Plus, you didn’t even cast me a glance… Of course it didn’t help that my friends don’t like girls who are smarter than them” I can’t help but laugh at myself for talking out loud. It’s not like she’s going to hear me. She’s DEAD! I get up quickly and throw my skateboard into the fountain with anger. After I stood there breathing heavy, I looked down at the water, and watched the little ripples appear in the fountain. It was peaceful to watch all those ripples dance across the water. They were little ballet dancers, small, and precise. They never missed a beat. I look up at the sky, and whisper, “Why her…? Why…?” I continue looking up at the sky, as if I was expecting a response. It never came. I rest my eyes on the fountain, and reach down to get my skateboard. When I’m about to leave to head home, I hear a faint whisper, and I quickly turn around and hold out my board as if it’s a weapon. “Who’s there?!”, I scream, half about to pee my pants, and half excited. My eyes scan the area around me, and no one shows. I let out a deep breath, and once again look up at the colors in the sky. “I’m sorry…””You’re forgiven,” says a soft voice nearby. My eyes search for the mysterious voice, and once they do, I’m almost speechless. “A-A-Annabelle, is that you?,” I try to say without stuttering, which is a fail. ANNABELLE’S POV: “You can see me? And hear me?” I ask incredulously. He nods softly and slowly as if afraid. I start pacing back and forth, as I always do when I’m nervous or thinking. “But I’m a ghost… No one has been able to see me, and believe me I’ve tried everything to get noticed… I’ve set off the fire alarm in the school, you’re welcome for that break by the way; I’ve tried to talk to my mom… Hell, I even threw a donut at someone in my mom’s bakery… Hehe… She lost some money that day when people ran out of the store screaming: “GHOST DONUT!”I ramble on with.I lookat him and expectfor an answer, but all I get is a deer caught in headlights look. I laugh slightly, and try to break the ice. “This must seem weird. After all, you are talking to a 15 year old ghost who’s a girl. I’m just like you, except I don’t gain weight, I can eat whatever I want, I don’t age, I can walk through walls, I can’t sit down, andddddd I died. So, don’t worry, I’m not bad. At least I don’t think I am. Just in case, you might want to have ghostbusters on speed dial.” I say while once again rambling. “So you won’t attack me… Or hurt me?” He asks after what feels like an eon. I look at him dumbfounded. How the hell could this dude think I would hurt him? For one, he’s got like a foot on me, and two, he seems to have muscles… Then again, I could possess his body… But that’s another story for another day. I quickly gain my composure after my fighting thoughts. “Attack you? Why would I hurt someone who said all that stuff about me..? I’ve never met ANYONE who has said all those nice things about me” I feel like a blush is starting to appear on my cheeks, but it doesn’t, because I don’t have blood anymore. Instead I have to stand there, and keep feeling like it’s going to approach any second, it’s quite uncomfortable. “You haven’t?” he spoke again with surprise in his voice. “You’re surprised? I’m not exactly the social butterfly, who has lots of friends. Unlike you of course, I’m sure you are the life of the party,” I stated while I folded my arms across my chest. Does he really think I’m stupid? I know his type. I see them everyday… Well, I SAW them every day. “Ever since you died I haven’t been the same. I’ve went home every day, and studied instead of going out and partying. I asked for extra help” He shrugs and sighs. “But I’m just a random dude who liked you at school. And happened to know where you lived” I whip my hair around so fast at him that even Willow Smith wouldn’t be able to keep up. I give him the what-the-hell-dude face. “You stalked me?! Dude! If you saw me while I was getting dressed I will possess your body and make you do such things that you won’t ever be able to repair the damage to your rep” He quickly backed up and put his hands up, as if he was defending himself. “I’m not Peeping Tom. I just wanted to try and get up enough courage to talk to you. But of course now I won’t have the chance to.” He sighed, and shook his head at his own disappointment. I look around us, and then shrug. “Now here’s your chance… So… Talk to me” He sat down on the stone bench, and began to talk. “I’ve been struggling with depression for a while now… It’s part of the reason why I go and party because I don’t have to deal with the pain for a couple hours. Problem is, when you leave that atmosphere, you are in even more pain than before” He takes a deep breath then begins again. “I wanted to talk to you and ask you out, because you seemed like someone who could help me out of this feeling… You are exactly what I need. Someone who is smart, and can kick my ass when I need to be ass kicked” He hesitates, and clears his throat before he starts the next sentence. “And… I found out two days ago… That my dad was the one who ran you over. He was drunk, and he was racing back to me to tell me how sorry he was for leaving us when I was little. I was in the hospital with a broken leg, and I guess it just scared him… He thought he was going to lose me… And God… Annabelle.. My dad is the reason you are dead… I’m so sorry… If it wasn’t for me, you would still be alive today” He buried his face into his hands. It took a few minutes for me to process all of the emotions I was feeling. If I was mother Mary my cloud would be a fucking rainbow. “You can’t blame yourself for my death… It was no one’s fault. Except maybe the car for not having brakes. However, the car isn’t someone, now is it? Neither the less, you couldn’t have stopped it” He shook the hair out of his face, and began to speak, an obvious hitch in his voice. “Still… You should have been able to experience more before dying””Should have. But many things don’t work out. I mean, look at the world around us. We have so much loss around us. Although, there is something I learned… With every person you lose, you find someone new” I attempt to hold his hand, but I phase through as usual. He looks at my hand and smiles. “How is a freshmen smarter than I am?” I bite my lip at an attempt to stop myself from smiling back. I settle for a simple smirk, and a laugh. “It’s called reading and listening to the teacher in class. I also took advanced classes… I wanted to get into a science field.”I state while I keep my smirk in firm place. “Wow… Here I am, a sophomore, and I don’t even know what I’m going to eat when I get home… And there you stand a freshmen who had everything planned,” He says in complete and utter awe. I shrug my shoulders. “It doesn’t really matter anymore. It’s like I can go to a ghost college” “Now THAT would be a much better show than Jersey Shore! We could call it Ghost Acamedy!” He suggests. I let out a little giggle, and then cover it up quickly. He smiles once again, and then frowns when he looks back over at me. “So… Uhm… Do you just stay on Earth, or do you move on? I don’t really understand all this ghost stuff… Except for the stuff on TV, which I assume is bullshit” He seemed to be actually to be nervous, and bashful. It was kind of cute. I mentally curse myself, and adjust myself. “You really think I know anything about this? This is my first time being dead” His eyes crinkled at the edges, and he focused his big brown eyes on me. “Well, you may be a ghost, but you still have the mood swings of a 15 year old girl,” He continued focusing his brown eyes on me when I started to open my mouth.I wanted so bad to throw back an insult, but I couldn’t when he was watching me with those deep chocolate eyes. He grinned when he knew I couldn’t say anything. “Who knew Annabelle couldn’t come up with good comebacks?”He chuckled at his own joke. I blow at my bangs, which are falling out of my eyes when I notice something weird. My lips are disappearing. I try and speak, but nothing comes out. I watch as he sprints towards me, but it’s too late. I’ve disappeared. ANDREW’S POV: My hands catch air when I try to reach out towards the spot where she was standing.I let out a nervous laugh. “Annabelle… This isn’t funny… Where are you?” Worry shows in my voice and mind. She couldn’t have left, she just couldn’t. “Annabelle… Please don’t be gone, I need you… I need someone who is smarter than me, and can help me with school work… I need someone who can kick my ass, but can still be caring. I need someone who will never give up on me. And I need someone who can put up me even when I’m being a jackass… Now I may have just met you… But it seems like I’ve known you for my entire life. So please… Please come back to me. Just for one more day. I’ve screwed up so many times, and I know I don’t deserve this. But I promise I won’t do it again. I just need one more day to get to know you. I want to know what your favorite color is, what your favorite food is, what your pet peeves are… I just want to know you. Please… Just come back to me…” I continue looking around, hoping she’ll pop up… But she doesn’t. However, I won’t give up. I walk back over to the fountain, and sit down by it. Then, I wait. “Andrew..?” I nearly jumped when I heard her voice.It was weak, and soft, but I could tell it had power to it, like she was back for good. I couldn’t help but smile. I ran towards her, and hugged her. “I’m here… I’m here…” I said softly, while stroking her hair. “You were my reason to stay… I want to stay for you…” She snuggles her head into my chest, and sucks in my warmth. She seems so cold. “We can go back to my house… Get you warm” Now I know what you must be thinking, what a pervert. But that wasn’t my idea at all. I just wanted to make sure she was okay. She nodded, and I scooped her up into my arms. I started walking, and keep glancing down at the beauty that rested in my arms. She seemed so peaceful, and undisturbed. As if no one could hurt her. But the truth was, so many things could hurt her. She’s too fragile. I had to protect her. Problem was, I was just like her. I was just as fragile as she was. “Are we there yet? I’m cold…” As if on cue, she shivered.I walked up to the front door, and then opened it. “My mom is upstairs asleep… She gets up pretty early, because she has a job at the ER. She takes that shift so she can be home when I get back from school everyday” I shut the front door with my foot, and then I place her down on the couch. I throw a blanket over top of her. “Is that okay?” I ask, slightly nervous. I’ve never had a girl inside my house before. She nods, and then speaks, “I want you to sleep next to me” I lie down next to her carefully, and wrap my arms around her. I breathe in the scent of honeysuckle, and vanilla. “I’m glad I met you… In this way I mean” She smiles softly, and then traces my face with her fingertips. “I am too Andrew… But promise me, if anything ever happens to me again, I want you to move on, okay?” I nod softly, and then I close my eyes. My breathing starts to slow down, and I fall into happiness. ANNABELLE’S POV I sit up when I’m sure that he has fallen asleep. I sigh softly, and kiss his cheek gently. I wish that I could have stayed on Earth longer… I wanted to grow old with him. But I wouldn’t be able to. I know now that I was his shoulder to cry on. I was needed by him, and now it would be my time to go. I know that it’s going to be hard for him. It’ll be hard for everyone. However, I knew that something good for him would come along. Plus, I’ll always be looking down on him. I will protect him. Even from up here in Heaven. “I forgive you Andrew” I say to his sleeping form.Andrew must learn that when you lose someone, you find someone new.

Department of Labour 2009/10 Annual Report The Department of Labour presented its 2009/10 Annual Report to the Committee, outlining the challenges and progress made in administration, service delivery, employment and skills development services, labour policy and labour market programmes, and social insurance. There was under-representation of males at lower levels and a vacancy rate of 11%. Skills development staff had been smoothly transferred to the Department of Higher Education and Training. A Risk Management unit had been established and was implementing a new Risk Management Strategy, Risk Policy and Fraud Prevention Plan. The Vetting Unit could not be established due to non- allocation of funding by National Treasury. The service delivery targets were outlined, and it was noted that the focus had been on job creation, promoting equity in the work place, and protecting vulnerable workers. The main challenges were the lack of case management system, lack of competence, and the lack of human resources, and a hybrid implementation of a manual and electronic system. New case management was being established, together with a roving team of inspectors of work places. The Department’s target of finalising 70% of unemployment insurance claims was not met, as only 51,5 % were finalised. Although the target was to place 70% of registered jobseekers in jobs after developing their skills, and to provide raised skills development funding, the economic recession resulted in fewer than planned apprentices being indentured, and not all the information was received from provinces. The labour policy and labour market programmes sector planned to improve employment equity by inspecting compliance of additional Johannesburg Stock Exchange (JSE) listed companies each year. The targets for protecting vulnerable workers had been exceeded. There were plans to improve the administration, production and financial control of the employment centres for the disabled. It was noted that the Department received a qualified audit, and although some issues raised in the previous year had been addressed and cleared, there was still an incomplete Public Private Partnership asset register. There was also unauthorised and wasteful expenditure, a contingent asset linked to a claim by the Department of R5 million from a service provider, non compliance with regulatory and reporting requirements, and investigations into alleged internal control deficiencies at the Indlela Institute. Members stressed that the report did not contain the details that this Select Committee required, and future reports should provide provincial breakdown of information, achievements and challenges. Several Members requested provincial information to be provided in writing. Members were concerned about the vacancy rates, although these had decreased, and also raised specific concerns about the lack of staff and inadequate financial accounting controls at the Sheltered Employment Factories, despite the fact that a Portfolio Committee had been informed some years ago that these issues had been resolved. Members pointed out that there had been underspending, asked if those coming to work in South Africa had scarce skills, whether the inspectors were involve in risk management, and expressed their concern about waste of resources due to lack of case management systems, lack of competence and inadequate monitoring. The backlog of claims at the Compensation Fund was questioned. Members questioned how far the “professionalising” of law enforcement officers had gone, whether sufficient vehicles were made available and whether this had made a measurable impact on the services provided. Members asked how much was spent on consultants, when the asset register would be finalised, and noted that the Employment Creation project was not successful enough. Members questioned if the report correlated with what was happening on the ground, why no separate report on Aurora Mine issues was provided, and asked about the progress of the legislative amendments. They also enquired about staff contracts and retention strategies, urging the Department to train, pay and support inspectors properly. Members asked whether those trained were able to find jobs, and what was done to help people to stay in rural areas. Members were concerned that the capacity of inspectors to protect the vulnerable, child labour and abuse of domestic workers must be urgently addressed. Details were sought on jobseekers and how many found employment. The Committee criticised the Department for its own gender imbalances at managerial level and said that its gender focal point should be headed by someone of a higher rank. Department of Labour 2009/10 Annual Report briefing Mr Sam Morotoba, Acting Director General, Department of Labour, briefed the Select Committee on the Annual Report of the Department of Labour (DoL or the Department) for 2009/10. He explained the challenges and progress made in five sectors of administration, service delivery, employment and skills development services, labour policy and labour market programmes, and social insurance. Mr Morotoba highlighted the progress made in administration, in relation to legal services, marketing and media production, and the progress in employment equity. There was under-representation of males at lower levels. There was progress in filling vacancies, and the vacancy levels were now down to 11%. There had been a smooth transfer of skills development staff to the Department of Higher Education and Training (DHET). A Risk Management unit had been established during this financial year, and was in the process of implementing a new Risk Management Strategy, Risk Policy and Fraud Prevention Plan. The security services of the Department had provided security as well as security awareness programmes in five provinces, and provided support to Ministerial izimbizos. However, the Vetting Unit could not be established due to non- allocation of funding by National Treasury. In the service delivery sector, the Department had planned to increase the percentage of work-seekers placed in employment, to 70% of registered opportunities per year, using the employment services database. The Department focused on contributing to job creation, promoting equity in the work place, and protecting vulnerable workers. Its main challenges were the lack of case management system, lack of competence, and the lack of human resources, with system readiness requiring a hybrid implementation of a manual and electronic system. The signing of contracts was also stopped with effect from 1 November 2009, due to the transfer of skills development functions to the DHET. To address these, new case management was being established, together with a roving team of inspectors of work places. The Department’s target of finalising 70% of unemployment insurance claims was not met, as only 51,5 % were finalised. The Employment and Skills Development Services and Human Resources Development sector had targeted reducing unemployment by placing 70% of registered jobseekers in jobs after developing their skills, to support the National Skills Fund (NSF) and Sector Education and Training Authorities (SETAs). It also hoped that 2 000 non levy paying enterprises, non-government organisations and co-operatives received skills development funding by 2010, and aimed to increase the pool of qualified people with scarce skills by providing funds to assist 26 000 unemployed learners to enter scarce and critical skills programmes. The challenges in this sector included the economic recession, which had resulted in a lesser number of apprentices indentured than planned, outstanding provincial reports that made it difficult to verify the number of new learners who completed learning programmes, the insufficient number of learners who applied for funding, and uncertainties about funding allocations, due to the transfer of skills development functions to the Department of Higher Education. The labour policy and labour market programmes sector planned to improve employment equity by inspecting additional Johannesburg Stock Exchange (JSE) listed companies each year for substantive compliance with legislation. Other functions of this sector were to protect vulnerable workers, regulate child labour, promote sound labour relations by registering labour organisations, and de-registering non-genuine and non-compliant organisations. The protection of vulnerable workers had exceeded the targets set. Another key component was the monitoring of the impact of new legislation. This sector ran the Sheltered Employment Factories (SEF) and planned to improve the administration, production and financial control of the employment centres for the disabled. The report concluded that the Department had received a qualified audit finding from the Auditor-General. The audit found that the issues raised in the previous year around the asset register, incorrect values, and reconciliations had been cleared. However, there was an incomplete Public Private Partnerships assets register. There was also unauthorised and wasteful expenditure, a contingent asset where the Department was claiming R5 million from a service provider due to overpayment, non compliance with regulatory and reporting requirements, and investigations into alleged internal control deficiencies at the Indlela Institute in the year. The investigations on allegations of fraudulent payments had been completed. Discussion Ms L Mabija (ANC, Limpopo) complained that the national departments were not using correct methods to brief Select Committees, and that, although this report was quite well presented, it had not addressed any provincial programmes and challenges, as befitting the Members of this Committee who were their provinces’ representatives. The current format of the report had not assisted Members to evaluate progress. The Chairperson agreed with Ms Mabija that a new format should be used for briefings to the NCOP, outlining provincial concerns for the members. Mr Morotoba explained that the format of the Annual Report presentation was based on a template provided by the National Treasury (NT) and that the Department was not supposed to deviate from this template. The Department therefore produced separate research reports on specific subjects, and these were referenced in the Annual Report. In future these reports would also be provided to the Committee. The Chairperson asked if the Department had any information specified by province, and if so, asked that it should be sent to the Committee. Mr M Sibande (ANC, Mpumalanga) was concerned about the lack of staff and adequate financial accounting at the Sheltered Employment Factories (SEF). This concern had been raised by a Portfolio Committee about four years ago, and that Committee had been told that the issues had been resolved, yet the Auditor-General was raising them again. He reminded the Department that SEF had been created to assist those with disabilities. He questioned whether the factories were nation-wide or only in specific provinces. He was also concerned by the unauthorised and irregular expenditure of SEF which had been raised by the Auditor-General. Mr Morotoba replied that there were factories in seven provinces, but not in Limpopo and Northern Cape. These factories were established in 1945. The Department was looking into whether to expand this programme or not. There were 300 similar factories under the Department of Social Development, but these were mainly subsidised. Mr Morotoba confirmed that the Department had instituted processes to try to achieve an unqualified audit report. One of the major challenges in this year had resulted from the retirement of one Chief Executive Officer, while the replacement officer had suffered a stroke. A Finance Officer had been hired, and it was planned to recruit a Marketing Officers. However, National Treasury had also slowed down on recruitment as it had insisted on due processes being followed. Mr Sibande reiterated his concerns about the SEF, as the Department had made a commitment to solve the issue four years ago. He was also concerned by the conclusions reached by the Auditor-General on the mismanagement on funds. Mr Sibande also raised his disquiet that money was allocated to deal with issues such as employment, skills development and human resources development but was not being utilised. He cited that in Programme 3, R406 million was allocated for 2009/10, of which R16,3 million was not spent. He asked if the people coming to work in South Africa fell within the category of scarce skills. He also asked whether the inspectors were involved in risk management. Mr Bheki Maduna, Chief Financial Officer, Department of Labour, replied that where only 96% of the budget had been spent, there were challenges in implementing the proclamation by the President, which in turn affected the spending. National Treasury gave an indication that the money that was not spent would automatically roll-over but this money went to the Department of Higher Education and Training as start up capital. Mr Sibande asked why there was a table in the presentation that showed ten provinces instead of nine. Ms Caroline Mutloane, Chief Operations Officer, Department of Labour, replied that the ten provinces included the division of Gauteng into North and South. This policy had now changed and the statistics were now merged. Mr Sibande was worried about the financial implications of the division. Mr M Jacobs (ANC, Free State) asked who had broken these areas down, and how this was done. Mr Sibande reiterated the Auditor-General’s findings that there was wastage of resources due to a lack of case management system, lack of competence, and lack of proper monitoring of entities. He asked that the Committee be given the list of bogus unions. Mr Thembinkosi Mkalipi, Chief Director, Department of Labour, agreed to supply the Committee with a list of the bogus unions. He warned that that unions would only be placed on the list after the deregistration process had been completed. Mr O De Beer (COPE, Western Cape) asked how the vacancy rate of 11% in the Department affected service delivery and client services. He felt that this was too high. He asked if there had been any improvement in the backlog of claims in the Compensation Fund. Mr Risimati Chauke, Chief Director: Human Resources, Department of Labour, replied that the vacancy rate had decreased from 17,2% to 13,8% during the last financial year. This had further decreased to 11% in August 2010. The Department was targeting a 10,5% rate. He conceded that 11% was not entirely desirable but noted that progress had been made. Mr De Beer commented that the presentation by the Department stated that the law enforcement officers would be “professionalized”. The Minister had indicated that the law enforcement officers should be integrated with those in other national departments. He questioned whether the vehicles bought for the law enforcement officials had been used, whether they were sufficient, and whether there had been any measurable improvement in services since buying the vehicles. Ms Siyanda Zondeki, Deputy Director-General, Department of Labour, replied that the Cabinet had decided that all occupational health and safety inspectors from all departments should be integrated under the leadership of the Department of Labour. However, this process could not be completed, as some departments had pulled out. The Departments of Mineral Resources, Energy, and Health established their own separate entities to regulate their own inspectors. The process was thus brought to a halt by lack of co-operation. The vehicles bought for inspectors were launched in October in Limpopo. 50 vehicles had been purchased, but she described this as a “drop in the ocean” when compared to the 125 labour centres across the country. The Department hoped to get more funding to buy more vehicles. Mr De Beer asked how much the Department had spent on the numerous consultants it used. Mr Maduna replied that a summary of the payments was shown at note 5.3 on page 137 of the Annual Report. The Department did have the individual details if this was necessary. Mr De Beer asked when the asset register would be finalised. Mr Maduna explained that it was a coincidence that while issues raised by the qualified audit were being cleared, the issues of classification of the Public Private Partnership (PPP) contract were raised by National Treasury. When the contract was signed in 2002, it was treated as a service contract, and there was no requirement that the Department must account for the IT assets. However, during the period of the contract this was reviewed. The period of the PPP contract now had to be accounted for as a finance lease. In 2009/10 this classification was cleared, but now the IT assets register had to be accounted for. The PPP partner was, in terms of the contract, supposed to provide an asset register to the Department but had failed to submit this. Mr Maduna was now leading the work on compiling an asset register with the PPP partner. Mr De Beer commented that the Department’s Employment Creation project was not successful enough, although he did recognise the successes in assisting people with no skills to become semi-skilled and employable. Mr Morotoba replied that previously the Department had had three ways of assisting individuals with job creation. The first was skills development, and that had now been moved to the Department of Higher Education and Training. The second avenue was through the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, which had now been merged into the National Youth Development Agency. The third, and currently the sole assistance offered by the Department of Labour, was through the Employment Services Programme, which assisted with career counselling, recommended placement and matched jobseekers with jobs. The Unemployment Insurance Fund (UIF) dealt with retrenchments, trying to limit or delay them, by offering programmes giving alternative forms of employment, even if these were only able to pay a lower salary. Mr M Jacobs (ANC, Free State) asked if the report reflected what was happening on the ground. He felt that the Committee members needed to visit labour centres to corroborate what was said in the report. He asked why no report on Aurora Mines had been included. Ms Zondeki replied that the Aurora issues were presently before the Labour Court. A compliance order had been amended and there had been progress. The Department would consolidate this information and submit it to the Committee. Mr Jacobs asked what progress had been made on the labour law amendments. Mr Mkalipi replied that the Department planned to have submitted the labour law amendments to Cabinet by March. However, this could only be done in June. The Cabinet then required an impact study, which was done and the Amendment Bill was resubmitted to Cabinet. During the Cabinet reshuffle, a new Minister of Labour was appointed. The Department had withdrawn the Bill, and would brief the new Minister on it before taking it back to Cabinet. Mr Jacobs noted that the report to the Committee did not make mention of farm evictions, although there had been a recent increase in these. Mr Mkalipi replied that farm evictions were regulated, but this was not done through the Department of Labour unless the issues revolved around the non-payment of wages. Because these evictions followed a process outside of the Department, he did not have any further information on them. Mr Jacobs stated that the Department needed to improve, not stagnate as it had been doing for the past five years. He stressed that the Department should achieve an unqualified report. He asked specifically how the provinces were benefitting from the learner programmes, and requested a provincial breakdown of the bursaries. Mr Morotoba confirmed that he would provide the information on the bursaries. Mr Jacobs asked what notice period was set out in staff contracts, and the impact of this on the vacancies. Mr Mkalipi replied that according to the contracts, one month’s notice was required if the person had worked for the Department for longer than a year. He stressed, however, that it was often not beneficial to hold people to their contracts, and could even be detrimental to service delivery if they were not prepared to work well during their notice period, and it was not possible to discipline them. It was better to let unwilling workers leave immediately rather than trying to keep them. Mr Jacobs asked what the Department’s retention strategy was. Mr Chauke replied that the retention strategy appeared to be inadequate for all levels but did enable the Department to fill vacancies at levels 3 to 6 internally. There were also performance systems in place to reward high performance. Mr Z Mlenzana (COPE, Eastern Cape) appreciated the layout of the report but would have liked a foreword or overview from the Director-General or the Minister. He asked about the progress in implementing the professionalisation of inspectors. He noted that the strategy plan of the Department had selected the hospitality, tourism and security sectors for inspection, and asked how the provinces had performed in these sectors against the set targets. Ms Zondeki explained that so far the Department had reviewed the job profiles of the inspectors and had created three categories, being a general entry-level inspector, a principal inspector, and a specialist inspector at one level (such as health, or safety). The challenge in implementing these categories was the lack of funding. The professionalisation of the inspectors also required that a body be established to regulate them, and the Department had communicated with tertiary institutions and professional bodies. The Code of Conduct for labour inspectors had been developed. However, she pointed out that professional Inspectors needed higher salaries, and the Department needed to be able to attract the right skills to enforce its policies, and then to retain those professionals. Mr H Groenewald (DA, North West) emphasised that the primary focus of the Department should be on creating sustainable jobs for South Africans. There was a problem if the Department was training people to acquire skills, only to find that there were no jobs for them. There was also a problem with foreigners taking South African jobs, as often foreigners provided cheap labour, and there appeared to be no control. There had been a new trend whereby the foreigners were going into the rural areas, while South Africans were forced to move from the rural areas to cities. He asked if the Department was doing anything to help people stay in rural areas rather than migrating to the urban centres. Mr Morotoba replied that a good working relationship with the Department of Home Affairs had assisted the Department of Labour in working around the issue of foreigners. Mr D Feldsman (COPE, Gauteng) reiterated concerns by other Members that the report given to the NCOP should be more specific in its focus, and therefore different from reports presented to the National Assembly committees. Mr R Tau (ANC, Northern Cape) expressed congratulations on the new Minister’s appointment. He indicated that the Annual Report document illustrated the real issues that the Committee wanted to hear about, but these were not included in the oral presentation. He commented that there were inconsistencies around the protection of vulnerable workers. This did not include domestic workers. Mr Tau noted that according to the Annual Report, a report on the hospitality industry had been finalised, and he asked how far this had gone, and whether the Committee could be provided with the information. He also wanted information on the number of inspectors in the Northern Cape, how effective and able they were to implement the Department’s policies, whether they had capacity to protect the vulnerable, and reiterated Mr Jacob’s point about farm workers. He emphasised that this was a national problem, and so were concerns around child labour and the abuse of domestic workers. He urged that the Department should be looking after the inspectors, and making an effort to ensure that they were highly trained, well paid, and highly motivated to be able to protect the vulnerable, particularly the working classes and the poor who were not unionised. These inspectors should not be poached away by the private sector. The Chairperson thanked Mr Morotoba for sending the presentation to the Committee early. However, she felt that the oral presentation should have been better integrated with the Annual Report. She too enquired about provincial breakdowns. She also asked what the top ten risks were that had been identified in the new Risk Management Strategy, what kind of contracts had been finalised, and what had been meant by the ‘smooth transfer’ of staff to the Department of Higher Education and Training, asking what challenges there had been. Mr Chauke replied that there had been no challenges in the transfer of staff. The Chairperson asked what the current status was of the attempts to hire a new Chief Information Officer, noting that the structure of the CIO office had been reviewed and critical posts were identified. Mr Chauke replied that the appointment of the new Chief Information Officer was pending. The post had been advertised, candidates had been shortlisted, interviews had been held and a candidate had been selected. This selection had been submitted to the Department of Public Service and Administration, who had to finalise the appointment. Mr Vikash Sirkisson, Chief Information Officer, Compensation Fund, replied that the loss of staff had resulted in the Department being left with no IT staff, and thus no longer being able to engage effectively with the service provider at a technical, contractual or legal level. A review process was done, to see what staff were needed by the Department. The Chairperson asked why National Treasury declined the funds required to establish the Vetting Unit. Mr Chauke clarified that the Department was trying to establish a vetting unit in pursuance of all departments doing their own vetting. The Chairperson asked how many of the registered jobseekers had their registration on the database initiated directly by the Department, and asked that details be provided of how many found employment, how many times people had been contacted by the Department after they had registered. She also asked for clarification of the term ‘vulnerable workers’. Mr Mkalipi replied that ‘vulnerable workers’ were those involved in sectors where there was no collective bargaining. These included domestic workers, and those employed in the security and hospitality industry. The Chairperson stated that although this Department was monitoring other departments and institutions on their gender balance it had too many men at managerial level itself. Shse asked if the Department had a gender focal point to advise the balance on gender, and if so, at what level was the leader of this unit. Mr Chauke replied that there was a gender focal point unit, whose leader was at Deputy Director level. This unit was being re-examined at present. The Chairperson commented that this rank was not high enough to effect real change. The Chairperson asked what was being done to help jobseekers to find positions. The Department had previously reported a shortage of inspectors, and she asked what was being done to recruit people. Ms Zondeki explained that the Risk Management Unit had been established recently. This unit had measured the risk profile of each programme. From the current year, templates had been developed to gather information per sector in each province, and the information would be available from April. Mr Tau explained that from 2011 the Committees would be empowered to review the budgets of departments. He hoped that the Department of Labour was aware of this. Mr Morotoba stated that there was a general agreement within the clusters to work collectively, particularly as many of the issues to do with labour crossed over into other departments. The Department of Labour was attempting to co-ordinate interdepartmental interventions. He used the issue of Aurora as an example. The public portion of the meeting was adjourned.

KONZAL, Daryl, R. (8430 Ravenswood Circle, Wauwatosa, WI, 53226, US) BOTTOM FINISHING STATION COMPONENTS FOR A CUP MAKING MACHINE FIELD OF THE INVENTION [0001] This invention relates generally to the manufacture of two piece seamed paper cups coated with thermoplastic, and more particularly, pertains to cooperating clamp components used in a bottom finishing station for creating a bottom seal between bottom and sidewall blanks of the cup. BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION [0002] The assignee of the instant application, Paper Machinery Corporation of Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA is the manufacture of paper cup making machines used to make a variety of cups and containers. A typical cup machine for making paper cups, for instance, includes a turret having a plurality of mandrels about which the containers are formed. The turret sequentially rotates the mandrels into cooperation with a variety of work stations where numerous cup forming procedures occur. [0003] In an exemplary procedure, a circular bottom blank is cut out at one workstation and attached to the end of a mandrel by a vacuum applied through the mandrel. During this procedure, the outside lip of the bottom blank is folded downwardly. At a subsequent workstation, a sidewall blank is wrapped around the mandrel. The sidewall blank is heated and sealed using a seam clamp along an overlapped side seam which runs generally longitudinally along the side of the cup. Typically, a paperboard or solid plastic sheet is coated with a thermoplastic material such as polyethylene, so the bottom and sidewall blanks may be heated and sealed together. In some applications, the sidewall blank includes a flap extending beyond the lip of the bottom blank, and this flap is bent over the lip. At a bottom finishing station, the flap is pressed against the lip from an inside recessed area of the bottom of the cup. By heating the polyethylene and firmly pressing the sidewall flap and the bottom blank lip together, a bottom seal is formed and the cup is provided with a sturdy bottom region having a recessed area. There may also be other worksations where various other additional cup forming procedures are carried out. For example, one station may be used to provide a curl at the top or rim of the cup to provide a more functional drinking container and a better appearance. [0004] At a typical cup bottom finishing workstation, the bottom of the cup is finished by a knurling wheel which squeezes the bottom blank lip between the lower region of the sidewall and the sidewall flap. The knurling wheel is moved forward first into the recessed area on the bottom side of the cup. Then, the knurling wheel is moved laterally and then radially outwardly until it squeezes the sidewall blank, bottom blank lip, and the sidewall flap against an arcuate abutment wall of a bottom sealing clamp or clamp ring which receives the bottom of the cup. Once radially offset, the knurling wheel is rolled about the inside of the arcuate abutment wall until the entire bottom of the cup is pressed together and sealed. [0005] In some bottom finishing stations, the lower flat end of the seam clamp is received in a U-shaped channel formed in the bottom sealing clamp or clamp ring (see Fig. 7A) where the overlapped sidewall seam meets the top of the cup bottom. This creates a common straight line joint between the two clamps at an area designated the channel. Over many years of cup production, the channel area has proven to be the most difficult location on the cup to seal thereby causing tiny leaks at the bottom seal of the cup. Channel area leaks cause cup rejection and high speed paper cup plants leading to production shutdowns which can be expensive. Thousands of cups can be produced before the leakage problem is analyzed or detected. Thus, it would be advantageous to provide cup bottom finishing components, namely, a seam clamp and a bottom seam clamp or clamp ring which eliminate the straight line joint therebetween and improve bottom sealing of the cup. SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION [0006] It is a general object of the present invention to provide a two piece cup having a bottom seal which is free of channel area leaks. [0007] The present invention relates to a cup making machine having a bottom finishing station provided with a mandrel for holding a sidewall blank and a bottom blank such that flap portion of the sidewall blank is folded around a lip of the bottom blank. The bottom finishing station has a seam clamp engageable with overlapped edges of the sidewall blank to form a side seam, and a clamp ring selectively movable into engagement with the seam clamp. The clamp ring includes an annular wall having a recess for receiving a rotatable tool which presses against the flap portion and the lip to form a bottom seal. The invention is improved wherein part of the seam clamp protrudes into the clamp ring, and part of the clamp ring protrudes into the seam clamp to form a bridge acting against the overlapped side seam at the top of the lip. [0008] The seam clamp is formed with a nose that is matingly received in a channel cut into the clamp ring, and is overlappingly engaged with an abutment rising upwardly on a planar top surface of the clamp ring. The nose is formed with tapering sidewalls, and the channel is formed in an upper portion of the clamp ring. The channel has a flat bottom wall and a pair of upwardly diverging sidewalls that terminate at the planar top surface of the clamp ring. The abutment is integrally formed on the planar top surface of the clamp ring. The abutment includes an upwardly angled sidewall, a flat top wall and a downwardly and outwardly sloping sidewall that merges with one of the upperwardly diverging sidewalls of the channel. Part of a length of the top wall and entire length of the downwardly and outwardly sloping sidewall protrude into a curved face of the seam clamp above the nose. An external contour of the abutment and the channel form a reverse S-shaped configuration. The clamp ring includes a cam roller assembly mounted on a bracket to a peripheral edge of the top planar surface of the clamp ring. The cam roller assembly includes a cam roller engageable with an adjustable bolt on a lower portion of the seam clamp. [0009] In another aspect of the invention, a cup bottom finishing station is provided of the type for use with a cup making machine having a rotating turret with a plurality of mandrels. Each mandrel is configured to become an adjacent mandrel as it moves into position against a bottom finishing station. The adjacent mandrel is configured to receive a bottom blank having an outer lip and a sidewall blank having a lower region and a flap folded over the outer lip to create a recessed area in the bottom of the cup engaged by a finisher wheel. The bottom finishing station includes a seam clamp engageable with overlapped edges of the sidewall blank to form a side seam. A clamp ring is selectively movable into engagement with the mandrel and the seam clamp for forming a bottom seal of the cup. The clamp ring has an abutment wall defining a recess for receiving the finisher wheel. The seam clamp is formed with the nose that is matingly received in a channel cut into the clamp ring, and is overlappingly engaged with an abutment rising upwardly on a planar top surface of the clamp ring as the finisher wheel presses the lower region and the flap of the sidewall blank and the outer lip of the bottom blank against the abutment wall of the clamp ring. [0010] Various other objects, features and advantages of the invention will be made apparent from the following description taken together with the drawings. BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS [0011 ] The drawings illustrate the best mode presently contemplated of carrying out the invention. [0012] In the drawings: [0013] Figure 1 is a schematic plan view of a cup making machine employing the bottom forming station components of the present invention; [0014] Figure 2 is a perspective view of a cup made on the machine in Fig. 1 ; [0015] Figure 3 is a schematic representation of the bottom blank and the sidewall blank combined to form the cup of Fig. 2; [0016] Figure 4 is a sectional view showing the area at which the sidewall blank is joined to the bottom blank to form a bottom seal; [0017] Figure 5 is a perspective view of a portion of the bottom finishing station showing the seam clamp and the clamp ring of the present invention; [0018] Figure 6 is an elevational view of the seam clamp and the clamp ring of Fig. 5; [0019] Figure 7 is a sectional view taken on line 7-7 of Fig. 6; [0020] Figure 7A is a partial sectional view of a prior art seam clamp and clamp ring; [0021] Figure 8 is a partial sectional view of the seam clamp and the clamp ring in relation to the sidewall blank, the bottom blank and the knurling wheel; [0022] Figure 9 is an exploded view of the seam clamp and the clamp ring; and [0023] Figure 10 is an enlarged, sectional view of the seam clamp and the clamp ring used in making a cup with a left over right seam, the view being taken on line 10-10- of Fig. 8. DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENT [0024] Referring generally to Fig. 1 , an exemplary cup making machine 20 is illustrated, this particular design includes a mandrel turret 22 which cooperates with a transfer turret 24 and a rimming turret 26. Mandrel turret 22 includes a plurality of frustoconical mandrels 28 that are rotated in a stepwise or indexing manner between surrounding workstations. For example, a bottom blank may be applied to a given mandrel 28 at a bottom maker station 30 and then rotated to a bottom reformer station 32. From this point, the mandrel 28 is rotated into cooperation with the transfer turret 24 which receives sidewall blanks from a hopper 34, and rotates the sidewall blank into cooperation with the cooperating mandrel 28. The sidewall blank is then folded about the mandrel 28 over the bottom blank, heated and sealed along a seam. [0025] Next, the bottom blank and the sidewall blank are rotated to a bottom heat station 36. After heating, mandrel turret 22 indexes the subject mandrel 28 to a roller incurl station 38 where a portion of the sidewall blank, i.e. a sidewall blank flap, is bent over an outer lip of the bottom blank to form a recessed bottom in the cup. The cup is then moved to a bottom finishing station 40 where the sidewall blank flap and the bottom blank lip are pressed against the lower region of the sidewall blank to form a seal. [0026] Once the bottom is formed and sealed, the cup is transferred to rimming turret 26 and rotated to a lube station 42 and then. [0027] Bottom finishing station 40 can be sized and designed to make a variety of cups, and one example is illustrated in Figs. 2-4. An exemplary cup 52 includes an upper region 54 having a curled rim 56 and a bottom region 58. Cup 52 is made from a sidewall blank 62 disposed generally transverse thereto. Bottom blank 62 is typically bent or folded over in proximity to its outer edge to form a lip 64. The sidewall blank 60 is located with respect to bottom blank 62 so that a flap portion 66 extends beyond lip 64. Flap portion 66 is bent or folded around lip 64 so lip 64 may be squeezed between flap portion 66 and a lower portion 67 of sidewall blank 60 (see Fig. 4). [0028] A typical cup 52 is made from paperboard blanks having a thermoplastic coating such as polypropylene. The thermoplastic material permits heating and sealing of adjacent components. For example, when sidewall blank 60 is wrapped around bottom blank 62, the adjacent edges are heated and pressed together along a seam 68. The cup making machine 20 has the ability to create cups 52 with either a left over right seam 68 or a right over left seam 68. Similarly lip 64, flap portion 66 and lower region 67 of sidewall blank 60 may be heated and pressed together at bottom finishing station 40 to form a strong, leak-proof bottom region 58. By forming cup 52 as illustrated in Fig. 4, a recessed area 70 is created in the bottom of cup 52 on an opposite side of blank 62 from the main container region of cup 52. Recessed area 70 in the bottom of the cup permits insertion of a tool to press lip 64 and flap portion 66 towards the lower region 67 of sidewall blank 60. [0029] Referring now to Figs. 5-8, a seam clamp assembly 72 is positioned to engage and seal the seam 68 on the sidewall of the cup 52. In this regard, the sidewall blank 60 is wrapped around the mandrel 28 with the edges of the sidewall blank 60 overlapping on top of the mandrel 28. The seam clamp assembly 72 is held in an open or up position by air which on release allows the assembly 72 to engage the seam 68. The seam clamp assembly 72 includes a seam clamp arm 74 which is mounted for reciprocal movement by structure as more fully disclosed in U.S. Patent No. 5,752,907 issued May 19, 1998 which is herein incorporated by reference. A seam clamp 76 is pivotally mounted about pivot pin 78 on clamp arm 74. The seam clamp arm 74 is free to pivot on pin 78 when a front edge 80 of the seam clamp 76 is moved into engagement with the tapered sidewall of mandrel 28. [0030] After the bottom blank 62 has been heated at bottom heat station 36 and while the seam clamp 76 is engaged against the sidewall, a plunger portion 82 of the mandrel 28 moves away from a nose cone 84 of the mandrel 28 as seen in Fig. 8. This forces the lip 64 of bottom wall blank 62 into snug engagement with the bent lower portion of sidewall blank 60 at roller incurl station 38 to enable formation of a tight bottom seal at bottom forming station 40. [0031] Besides the seam clamp arm 74, the seam clamp 76 and the mandrel 28 holding the sidewall and bottom blanks 60, 62 respectively, the bottom finishing station 40 includes a clamp ring 86. The clamp ring 86 is selectively movable towards and away from the bottom of mandrel 28 by a carriage assembly such as more fully described in U.S. Patent No. 5,569,143 issued October 29, 1996, which is herein incorporated by reference. The clamp ring 86 has an annular wall 88 that forms a circular recess for receiving a knurling wheel 90. As is known, the knurling wheel 90 is moved into and out of the recessed area 70 in the bottom of cups 52, and then moved radially outwardly until a pre-heated flap portion 66, lip 64 and the lower region 67 of cup 52 are squeezed tightly against wall 88 to help form the bottom seal. [0032] In addition, pressure is applied to the channel area CA near the bottom of the cup 52 where the overlap side seam 68 meets the top of the bottom blank 60. As seen best in Figs. 7-10, the lower end of the seam clamp 76 is formed with a nose 92 which is received in a channel 94 cut into the clamp 86, and is overlappingly engaged about an abutment 96 formed on the planar top surface 98 of the clamp ring 86. In contrast to the prior art relationship between the seam clamp and the clamp ring as shown in Fig. 7A, in the present invention, part of the seam clamp 76 namely nose 92, protrudes into the clamp ring 86, and part of the clamp ring 86, namely, the abutment 96 rising above the planar top surface 98, protrudes into the seam clamp 76. This creates an overlapping structure that provides a bridge for the pressure producing seam clamp 76 and the clamp ring 86 to act against the overlap of the side seam 68 at the top of the cup bottom or lip 64, and thus produce a continuous seal across the channel area CA so that leaks are eliminated. [0033] In the preferred embodiment, the nose 92 when viewing the thickness thereof as seen in Fig. 10, has a finger-like shape with tapered sidewalls 100, 102 that are matingly received in the channel 94. As seen best in Fig. 10, the channel 94 is formed in an upper portion of the clamp ring 86 and has a flat bottom wall 104 and a pair of upwardly divergent sidewalls 106, 108 that terminate at the planar top surface 98 of the clamp ring 86. The abutment 96 is integrally formed on the planar top surface 98, and includes an upwardly angled sidewall 1 10, a flat top wall 112 and a downwardly and outwardly sloping sidewall 1 14 that merges with channel sidewall 106 at the planar top surface 98. About one half the length of top wall 112 and the entire length of sidewall 114 protrude into a curved face 116 of seam clamp 76 above nose 92. The overall contour of the channel 94 and the abutment 96 on clamp ring 86 forms a reverse S-shaped configuration or may be said to approximate a sinusoidal shape. When the lower end of the seam clamp 76 interfaces and overlaps with the contour of the clamp ring 86, there is no lateral shifting of the seam clamp 76 relative to the clamp ring 86 as the knurling wheel 90 forms the bottom seal. [0034] Referring to Figs. 5-9, to further improve the bottom seal, the movable clamp ring 86 carries a cam roller assembly 118 that is mounted on a bracket 120 held by fasteners 122 to a peripheral edge of the top planar surface 98. The assembly 118 has a cam roller 124 which rotates freely about a bolt 126. The cam roller 124 is engageable with an adjustable bolt 126 threaded into a member 146 on the lower portion of seam clamp 76. The cam roller 40 acts against the lower portion of seam clamp 76 which, in turn, acts against the sidewall seam 68 at the top of the cup bottom. [0035] In operation, mandrel turret 22 is appropriately timed to interact with cup bottom finishing station 40. As each mandrel 28 moves another cup 52 into an area of cup bottom finishing station 40, the seam clamp 76 is engaged against the overlapped edges of the sidewall blank 60. The sidewall and bottom blanks 60, 62 have been heated and the bottom of sidewall blank 60 has been folded around the bottom blank lip 66. The clamp ring 86 is now moved towards the bottom of mandrel 28 until the bottom of mandrel 28 is received in the recess of the clamp ring 86. At the same time, the lower end of the seam clamp 76 and the clamp ring 86 interface in matingly relationship as described above to provide a bridge to act against the side seam 68 at the top of the cup bottom. At this point, the knurling wheel 90 is brought into the recess 70 in the cup bottom, and moved against the flap portion 66, the lip 64 and the lower region 67 of cup 52 to complete the bottom seal. [0036] The present invention thus provides for improving the interrelationship of the seam clamp 76 and the clamp ring 86 used in a bottom finishing station 40 to form the bottom seal of a cup in a manner which avoids channel leaks. [0037]. Next Patent: PHARMACEUTICAL FORMULATIONS FOR THE TREATMENT OF ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE

K25 Part 5 - Timebomb Published on 2012-05-25 01:47:00 It's the 25th of the month which means it's time for the latest treat from Ms Minogue as she continues to celebrate her 25th anniversary as a chart-topping megastar.This month it's a brand new single! So, without any further ado, here it is, this is Timebomb:Andrew > read more London 2012 Torch Relay Videos Published on 2012-05-24 01:00:00 On Tuesday I enjoyed the sights and sounds of the Olympic Torch Relay as it reached Bristol for an overnight stop on it's tour of the UK - and shared them here. Today, I'm sharing a couple of videos: the BBC's trailer for coverage of the tour and the London 2012 animation which features many of the landmarks it'll visit on it's way to the Opening Ceremony in just 64 days time!Andrew > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 33 Published on 2012-05-23 15:40:00 After last week's Britpop Fest, it's time for something completely different. Here is the late, great Etta James with I Just Want To Make Love To You which reached No. 5 in 1996 thanks to being used on adverts for Diet Coke.Andrew > read more The Torch Relay Reaches Bristol... Published on 2012-05-22 16:18:00 With n [..] > read more Conference Accreditation - My Response Published on 2012-05-21 19:25:00 [..] > read more Rubbish - More Photographs of Urban Bristol Published on 2012-05-20 13:10:00 Last week I posted some pictures of street art and grafitti in Bristol. It's not a subject of which there is a shortage of examples, so here are some more:Andrew > read more Sunday Sounds 45 Published on 2012-05-19 18:00:00 Yesterday Chelsea won the European Cup Champions League. Meanwhile, I was considering what to post as my Sunday Sound. The former event made the answer to my later considerations obvious:Enjoy!Andrew > read more Review - The Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain Published on 2012-05-19 12:52:00 The [..] > read more In which the widow comes over a bit Daily Mail Published on 2012-05-19 09:02:00 The BBC is one of this country's greatest institutions. Every so often, though, it does something makes me come over a bit Daily Mail. > read more Flying the Flag Published on 2012-05-19 04:51:00 In a couple of weeks, it will be the Queen's Diamond Jubilee weekend. Aside from being an opportunity to have an additional Bank Holiday and celebrate the service Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II* has done for this country**, it has also provided a number of commercial opportunities. Coupled with the sponsorship opportunities of the British Olympic Team in this London Olympics year and all sorts of products and services are promoting their Britishness.From the humble sandwich - Sainsbury's are pha [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 32 - The Britpop Edition Published on 2012-05-16 01:00:00 There were lots of tunes I could have chosen this week, and most of them fell into the genre of "Britpop"... As a special treat, therefore, here are four (yes, four!) tunes for your listening pleasure. Don't say I'm not good to you!:Andrew > read more Review - Justin Currie at The Fleece in Bristol Published on 2012-05-15 15:23:00 As I mentioned on Sunday, last night I was going to see Justin Currie, erstwhile frontman of Del Amitri. Having wavered over buying a ticket, I was quite excited by the time the actual gig came round. Of course, with increased excitement comes increased potential for disappointment... Happily, this didn't happen!It was my first time in The Fleece in Bristol - a somewhat rough and ready venue with a capacity of, I would guess, around 200 (although you shouldn't quote me on that, I'm about as good [..] > read more Rebranding Whitehall Published on 2012-05-14 01:30:00 Last aesth [..] > read more Sunday Sounds 44: The Justin Currie Edition Published on 2012-05-13 04:10:00 Twenty [..] > read more EuroEnglish Published on 2012-05-11 16:39:00 Before Facebook and Twitter, it wasn't unusual to be deluged by e-mails of jokes and cartoons. One that I remember well - particularly as I first saw it when I worked for a German company - involved a plan to introduce "EuroEnglish" throughout the European Union. Just don't tell the Daily Mail...The European Union Commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility [..] > read more Truth and Beauty - More Bristol Pics Published on 2012-05-10 14:35:00 Following up from my pictures of Urban Bristol earlier this week, here are some more pictures of the city:Andrew > read more This is NOT a Blogpost Published on 2012-05-10 06:22:00 When is a post not a post? When it's this one, directing you to Liberal England where I have been afforded a guest post today. :-) > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 31 Published on 2012-05-09 16:02:00 Ah, W [..] > read more Argon - Photographs of Urban Bristol Published on 2012-05-08 01:00:00 It's been a while since I did a post of photos I had taken and it's about time that was rectified. Here, therefore, are some that I took on Saturday when I went out a walk which took me from home, to my new house and then back via Arnos Vale, Avon Meads and the Whitchurch Way cycle path.Andrew > read more Stonemouth - A Review Published on 2012-05-07 09:11:00 Regular s [..] > read more Sunday Sounds 43: The Voice UK Live Show 2 Edition Published on 2012-05-06 12:45:00 I'm going to spoil you this week with to Sunday Sounds, both taken from last night's episode of The Voice UK.First up is Max Milner with what I think is an incredibly special version of Tom Petty's Free-fallin', which was already one of my favourite songs. Max imbues it with real Soul and Emotion - the performance of the night for me:Whilst that may have been my personal favourite from last night, I also really liked Vince Kidd's rendition of Always on My Mind. I love both Elvis' and the Pet Sho [..] > read more My 700th post - and a first! Published on 2012-05-06 09:01:00 Ladies and Gentlemen, > read more Guilty Pleasures 13 Published on 2012-05-05 04:53:00 This latest entry in my list of guilty pleasures is the very epitome of what of what I mean by phrase. It's a song which, let's face it, was always a bit naff. But it also has the ability to fill dancefloors when the mobile DJ plays it at weddings and birthdays. It was a staple at Edinburgh's Tackno and is more cheesy that Cheese Strings Spaghetti......here is Mr Chesney Hawkes explaining why he is the One and Only:Andrew > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 30 Published on 2012-05-02 14:05:00 This week's choice is Mike Rutherford from Genesis in his other guise as lead singer of Mike and The Mechanics. I probably prefer The Living Years but here's Over My Shoulder:Andrew > read more Tuesday Titter 21: The Laughing Policeman Published on 2012-05-01 01:00:00 This may be 90 years old but it will never grow old...(OK, this version is only 84 years old, but my point still stands!)Andrew > read more Anything to Declare? Published on 2012-04-30 17:00:00 This wit [..] > read more K25 - Part 4 - Cherry Bomb Published on 2012-04-28 15:45:00 It's the end of the month, which can only mean one thing - it's time for another treat from Kylie as she celebrates 25 years in pop. This time out it's a video from the Anti-Tour of B-Sides, Demos and Rarities and is of her singing Cherry Bomb - a B-Side from the single releases of "Wow" and "In My Arms".Here she is:Andrew > read more The Daily Mail and Labour are Wrong Published on 2012-04-27 20:03:00 ...but. [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call a Tune! 29 Published on 2012-04-25 11:00:00 This week's entry features the Senegalese musician and would be politician, Youssou N'Dour. > read more Homecoming: A Video Published on 2012-04-25 01:00:00 Earlier this year I posted this on the campaign for equal marriage and earlier this month I posted this picture of the cover of attitude posing the question "Have you heard the one about the Iraq Veteran who can fight for his country but not get married?"Now, a video has been produced in support of the campaign for equal marriage, which takes up the theme of being able to serve one's country but not to marry one's partner. It's called "Homecoming" and you can find more about on the Pink Paper, h [..] > read more Bert Weedon's Guitar Boogle Shuffle Published on 2012-04-24 17:40:00 One [..] > read more Tuesday Titter 20: Doctors Orders: A Cup of Tea Published on 2012-04-24 01:00:00 The latest in the sporadic series of Tuesday Titters comes from Doc Brown, comedy rapper. I came across this clip whilst browsing You Tube, although I was aware of him - I once heard him do a rap aimed at making The Archers cool!In this piece, taken from Russell Howard's Good News Extra, he takes on that long-standing British obsession: the perfect cup of tea...Enjoy! > read more What Books Do When You're Not Looking Published on 2012-04-23 09:55:00 It's World Book Night tonight and, for the second year running, I didn't get my act together to volunteer to give out any of this year's free books - something I blogged about doing last year. Still, there's always next year...Anyway, earlier on blogger, I saw this, as tweeted by Jasper Conran's studios. It's an animation made in a bookshop in Toronto - and provides an insight into the nocturnal life of books...Andrew > read more The Voice UK Judges - 4 - Jessie J Published on 2012-04-22 10:00:00 The [..] > read more The Voice UK Judges - 3 - Danny O'Donoghue Published on 2012-04-22 04:00:00 So, last night was the first of the two Battle shows on The Voice UK - and the second is tonight. Before that, though, there are two more judges to feature on these pages. First, Danny O'Donoghue of Irish band The Script.The band boasts two Irish and UK Number 1 albums, with the second also getting to No.3 in U.S. They are one of those bands who have, slightly passed me by, but I think it's fair to say that their best known song (and certainly their biggest hit in the UK), remains The Man Who Ca [..] > read more The Voice UK Judges - 2 - will.i.am Published on 2012-04-21 12:00:00 Second' [..] > read more The Voice UK Judges - 1 - Tom Jones Published on 2012-04-21 08:00:00 Earlier D [..] > read more Lib Dem Conference, Police Accreditation: My Response Published on 2012-04-21 07:34:00 My Letter to the Federal Conference Committee, in response to the consultation on accreditation for Brighton: > read more The Voice UK Published on 2012-04-21 05:49:00 People [..] > read more When Sport and Politics Collide Published on 2012-04-20 07:22:00 Time and events have prevented me from blogging about this over the past couple of days and, to be honest, I've not got much to add to what Caron has said over at Caron's Musings.I too don't believe that the Bahrain Grand Prix should be going ahead at a time when dissent in Bahrain is being ruthlessly put down. I don't believe it's right from the point of view of the > read more NOW! That's What I Call a Tune! 28 Published on 2012-04-18 01:00:00 This week's act is, I think, the first time an artist has featured twice in this series. Indeed, I have specifically sought to avoid featuring an artist more than once in this series as well as featuring songs previously featured elsewhere on this blog.In the face of strong competition, though, I have put my reticence to one side in order to feature the beautiful and gifted Ms. Marcella Detroit for a second time after a previous outing as part of Shakespear's Sister. Here she is with her solo hi [..] > read more Dreams of a LIBERAL Democratic conference Published on 2012-04-16 16:47:00 I onlin [..] > read more Sunday Sounds 42 Published on 2012-04-15 01:00:00 Yesterday I featured Tim Minchin and his Three Minute Song. In another version of that song, he name-checks Victor Borge who becomes the subject of this week's Sunday Sound with a version of Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No.1. performed with The Muppet Orchestra...Andrew > read more Tim Minchin - Three Minute Song Published on 2012-04-14 01:00:00 I don't tend to watch the Royal Variety Show and so I've only just discovered this absolute gem from last years show from the ever-fabulous Tim Minchin. > read more The Liberal Democrat Fightback: Communication and Action Published on 2012-04-11 16:36:00 Since the turn of the year (or, more accurately, since Cameron's Euro non-veto) there has been an increasingly clear Liberal Democratic voice emerging from within Government. The mechanics of a coalition budget have also helped the yellow side of the government in being able to lay out its stall. Differentiating us, our policies and our priorities from our Conservative partners. Not least, of course, our commitment to raising the Income Tax Personal Allowance to £10,000 (and beyond?) by the end [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call a Tune! 27 Published on 2012-04-11 01:00:00 This week's tune had competition from Brian Cox in this D:Ream days, M People, Phil Collins, Tori Amos, The Beautiful South and Primal Scream......but the selected act are Ireland's finest band named after a type of fruit, The Cranberries. Here they are with Linger:Andrew > read more A Question of Tax Reliefs Published on 2012-04-10 17:07:00 So George Osborne is shocked that some of the highest earners in our country organise their tax affairs to minimise the amount of income tax they pay in order, presumably, to live off capital and, perhaps, dividends. To be fair to the chancellor, it is the scale of the issue which has shocked him. Nonetheless, Twitter has been awash with witty rejoinders, my favourite of which was:Much has been made of the various reliefs and schemes which are being used (and abused) to achieve very low rates of [..] > read more Book Review: Cosmology: A Very Short Introduction Published on 2012-04-09 07:52:00 This is the first book I've read from Oxford University Press' A Very Short Introduction series. Launched in 1995, there are now over 300 in the range covering topics as diverse as Advertising and Wittgenstein, Christianity and Witchcraft. Each volume is reassuringly thin which must make even the more daunting topics seem accessible even before one starts reading.The book on Cosmology is written by Professor of Theoretical Astrophysics at Cardiff University, Peter Coles. His previous works inclu [..] > read more A message to Little, Brown Published on 2012-04-08 09:46:00 Yesterday, i [..] > read more Sunday Sounds 41 Published on 2012-04-08 01:00:00 Last Sunday, during research for a future NOW! That's What I Call a Tune! post, one of the candidates was today's Sunday Sound. Although it was pipped on the finish line for the blogpost in question, it was too good a song to pass over altogether.Here is Lisa Loeb (minus the Nine Stories) with an acoustic performance of Stay (I Missed You):Andrew > read more A Question for You... Published on 2012-04-06 13:33:00 Other than following occasional links to stories on the Pink Paper, I don't read the gay press. It must be about 5 years since I last bought a copy of Attitude and much longer since I got an issue of GT!Purchasing a copy of the Radio Times in Sainsbury's Local earlier, however, I did happen to notice the cover of this month's issue:I think the question posed says it all...Andrew > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 26 Published on 2012-04-04 01:00:00 From 4 Non Blondes last week... to 2 Princes this week. Yep, it's the Spin Doctors with the biggest of their hits. Indeed, it if wasn't for the moderate success of earlier single "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong" (which I probably prefer), they'd pretty much qualify as One Hit Wonders!Andrew > read more The Surveilance Cart and the Policing Horse Published on 2012-04-02 16:18:00 People. Faceb [..] > read more Pearls of Wisdom Published on 2012-04-02 01:00:00 A: > read more The Hobbit - Book Review Published on 2012-04-01 11:00:00 I'm not terribly sure how to review The Hobbit. It's a book to which I return again and again and know so well, it's hard to read it with a critic's eye - or to want to do so. It's also a book that's so well known (even ahead of the new films) that providing a synopsis seems to be of limited value.This time through I was struck by two things, though. First I was reminded how much of a book for children it is: something I tend to forget. As narrator, Tolkien makes a number of asides to reader ove [..] > read more The Muppets - Film Review Published on 2012-04-01 07:25:00 Ladies and Gentlemen, I have a confession to make. > read more Sunday Sounds 40: The April Fools Day Edition Published on 2012-04-01 04:46:00 It's April Fools Day and, as I can't beat The Observer's story about Shaun Ryder being invited to advise Cameron and Co on how to present their policies to the Working Classes, I've opted for a particularly apt song from 1956 - Frankie Lymon and The Teenagers.I must confess that, although I obviously knew the song, I didn't know who sang it or anything about him. The track was released when Frankie Lymon was just 13 and appears to have been the highlight in his career: he broke from The Teenager [..] > read more K25 Part 3 - I Don't Need Anyone Published on 2012-03-30 16:12:00 The).The opposite of the big budget Arena tours, these are small shows featuring less well known songs;- b-sides, demos and rarities. Designed to have an intimate and noncommercial feel, the gigs sound like absolutely amazing nigh [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 25 Published on 2012-03-28 01:00:00 I was spoilt for choice again this week but plumped for 4 Non Blondes with What's Up which I remember as being one of those songs which gained a lot of air-play and seemed to define the spirit of 1993. Or maybe that was just me...Whilst I didn't choose this, do check out this version of Sade's No Ordinary Love - perfect music to chill out to...Andrew > read more Sunday Sounds 39 Published on 2012-03-25 10:53:00 This week's Sunday Sound was going to be this until I realised I'd blogged it before! Instead, I've chosen another bird - here's the song of the Nightingale to help you chill on (what is for me, at least) a lazy, sunny Sunday:You can see more of this, and other birds, here. > read more 10 things... I Don't Get Published on 2012-03-24 13:20:00 I particula [..] > read more Wrapping Ourselves In the Union Flag... Published on 2012-03-23 19:11:00 Much". > read more Is your iPod worth $8billion? Published on 2012-03-22 02:00:00 Rob Reid uses ©opyright Math™ to explain how it could be...Enjoy!Andrew > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 24 Published on 2012-03-21 02:00:00 I wanted to post The Bluebells' Young at Heart this week but to tie it in with the Volkswagen commercial on which it featured. Unfortunately I couldn't find that, so The Bluebells will have to wait for another day...Other leading contenders were Ugly Kid Joe's Cat's in the Cradle or k d lang's Constant Craving but the artist I eventually chose is no stranger to these pages. It's the divine Ms Annie Lennox and the haunting Love Song for a Vampire:Andrew > read more Sunday Sounds 38: Just Drive Published on 2012-03-18 01:00:00 [..] > read more Guilty Pleasures 12 Published on 2012-03-17 04:51:00 Once upon a time there was a car show - a reasonably standard magazine format show dispensing consumer advice on the one hand whilst also featuring aspirational super-cars on the other. But all was not well behind the scenes and most of the presenters walked out of the show and (pretty much) straight into a new show on Channel 5, imaginatively entitled 5th Gear.I say "imaginatively titled" as the show from which they had walked out was Top Gear... > read more Simon's Cat in "Shelf Life" Published on 2012-03-15 07:14:00 It's been a while but there's a new Simon's Cat video out. Once again, this will be a familiar scenario for cat owners everywhere:Andrew > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 23 Published on 2012-03-14 02:00:00 After the trickiness of last week's choice, this week's was easy. I didn't even look beyond Disc 1, Track 1...Here's Tasmin Archer with Sleeping Sattelite:Of course, there were a number of other options - you can see what I else I could have picked here.Andrew > read more What would you do with £60 a month? Published on 2012-03-12 15:07:00 This [..] > read more Iconic Images 21 Published on 2012-03-12 07:20:00 I've wanted to post about the story behind this particular Iconic Image for a while now, ever since I heard it on the Today programme some months ago. Yesterday, though, I came across a video which does the job for me. First, though, the image - a war-time poster that has become a common sight in card and gift shops all over Britain:And now, the story of the poster itself:Oh, and how cool does Barter Books look?Andrew > read more Sunday Sounds 37: The Political Edition Published on 2012-03-11 06:38:00 When f [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 22 Published on 2012-03-07 01:00:00 This [..] > read more Tuesday Titter 19- Let's Dance for Sport Relief III Published on 2012-03-06 01:00:00 When I started this series of posts, I intended the third entry to be Noel Fielding's performance of Kate Bush's Wuthering Heights... and then I discovered I'd previously blogged it here. Soooo... after much research and deliberation, here's one I missed last year: Ade Edmondson as the Dying Swan... If you're not familiar with his ouevre, the end may not make sense - if you feel in need of a primer, click here.As ever, enjoy and again, as ever, remember that the show is in aid of a really good c [..] > read more A Well Loved Book Published on 2012-03-05 01:00:00 Few books have has as much of an impact on my life as J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion. Whilst there are many authors whose work I revisit (or intend to revisit), none are subject to the 4-yearly regime I implement with these tales from Middle Earth.And so it is that every leap and Olympic year is, for me, a Tolkien year - with the bonus of a film to look forward to this year, too. I'm currently re-reading The Hobbit but my copy, printed in 1986, is, showin [..] > read more Got To Dance: and the winner is... Published on 2012-03-04 15:36:00 Tonight saw the final of the third series of Sky's flagship talent show, Got To Dance. The show is open to all styles of dance from solo contemporary acts, to street dance crews, to tap, to ballet, to ballroom. Pitching unashamedly for a family audience and presented by the irrepressible Davina McCall, Sky hit upon a winning format when they developed the show. The appeal is aided by a stable panel of judges: Ashley Banjo, Kimberly Wyatt and Adam Garcia.This years competition, all hyperbole asid [..] > read more Sunday Sounds 36: The Waiting For... edition Published on 2012-03-04 01:00:00 Whilst Go [..] > read more (Not So) Guilty Pleasures 11 Published on 2012-03-03 11:25:00 This week's Guilty Pleasure is from "An Audience with Kylie", broadcast in 2001 which saw her do a number of numbers and a sketch with erstwhile co-star and boyfriend, Jason Donovan... but it is more memorable to me for this VERY special version of Especially For You (although the surprise duetist works better when, well, when it's a surprise!) Andrew > read more In which the widow goes to London Published on 2012-03-01 01:27:00 Ehm, end [..] > read more 10 things... Worst Films Published on 2012-02-29 11:54:00 I reviewed The Artist here yesterday. Whilst I was at the cinema to see it I also saw a trailer for the re-release of Titanic. That was the inspiration for this post - 10 of the worst films I have seen, in no particular order:1. Titanic. Near, far, wherever you are, just sink/die already. Over-hyped and over-long with an over-blown theme song.2. Top Gun. I managed twenty minutes of this before then bf asked if I'd prefer Top Gear instead. There was only one answer to that question.3. The League [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 21 Published on 2012-02-29 01:00:00 This week, I've gone for a song by the fabulous Ms Diana Ross. Now, I'm not normally a fan of too much schmaltz or, indeed, torch songs (or not that I admit to) but this is a great song. It's not just a power balled, either, Ms Ross manages to imbue it with tenderness and passion, holding back as well as letting go, controlling the song not letting it control you.Here she is with "When You Tell Me That You Love Me":Andrew > read more Film Review: The Artist Published on 2012-02-28 17:10:00 I finally got to see the multi-BAFTA, multi-OSCAR winning The Artist today. In this context, this review would only really be noticeable if I were to completely trash the film.I won't.It's an astounding and towering achievement. I understand it won't be to everyone's taste, but on it's own terms it is, quite simply, amazing.The conceit, for anyone who has had their head buried in sand for the past couple of months, is that in telling the story of a star of the silent movie era, the film itself i [..] > read more Tuesday Titter 18- Let's Dance for Sport Relief II Published on 2012-02-28 01:00:00 The second of my selection of three performances from the various series of Let's Dance... is Rufus Hound as Cheryl Cole performing "Fight for this Love":Enjoy... and, as before, please visit the Comic Relief site to see the great work that the money they raise does.Andrew > read more Sunday Sounds 35 Published on 2012-02-26 06:00:00 This week's Sunday Sound is courtesy of Fats Domino, a prime example of the phenomenum known as Nominative Determinism if the ever there was one. [He was actually called Antoine Dominique Domino, Jr. "Fats" was just a nick-name. - Ed] One of the greatest musicians of the Rock n' Roll era of the late 50's and early 60's, his most famous track is probably Blueberry Hill, but it's worth spending some time on You Tube or Spotify to listen to more of his work:Andrew > read more The Question 2 Published on 2012-02-25 20:32:00 It's time for the second episode in the Stephen's collective blog experience - The Question. This month the question is:What is the best piece of advice you have ever been given?So, here's my take on it. Why not post your own response and put the link on Stephen's blog? Even if you don't, do pay a visit to see how else it's been answered!The best bit of advice I've ever had was probably given to me by Stephen when we worked together... but if it was, then I've long since forgotten it.My dad alwa [..] > read more In which I agree with the Coalition for Marriage... Published on 2012-02-25 12:11:00 consultatio [..] > read more K25 Part 2 - On A Night Like This Published on 2012-02-25 01:00:00 Last month I posted this blog about my relationship with Kylie over the years and featuring her first treat for fans - a superb rendition of Finer Feelings.Yesterday, the second recording from Abbey Road studios was released - an orchestrated, slowed down version of On a Night Like This, which was the follow up single to the smash hit which was Spinning Around. Enjoy!:Andrew > read more Book Review - The Edible Woman Published on 2012-02-24 17:20:00 Although I consider Margaret Atwood one of my favourite authors, I had only previously read three of her 20 novels (which are but half of a body of work which includes, children's books, several volumes of poetry and a number of non-fiction works).The Edible Woman was her first novel, published in 1969. It's main protagonist is Marian, a single woman in a changing, but male dominated, world. Unlike her single colleagues (the office virgins) or the older spinsters amongst whom she works, Marian i [..] > read more Something Tapped Published on 2012-02-24 01:00:00 Although lo [..] > read more Good Evening, Here is the News Published on 2012-02-23 01:00:00 A couple of years ago, I posted this video by Cassette Boy which skillfully edits Nick Griffen's pronoucements on Question Time for comic (but all-too-real) effect.Last night my cousin (whom you can follow on twitter here) posted Cassette Boy's latest video on his Facebook page. This time, he has re-edited the BBC Six O'Clock News. Enjoy:Andrew > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 20 - The Cover Version Published on 2012-02-22 01:00:00 NOW! song [..] > read more A Lib Dem Gain: Vince Cable appoints Les Ebdon as head of OFFA Published on 2012-02-21 06:44:00 Cross-post from Lib Dem Gains, first published yesterday evening:Today, the (Lib Dem) Business, Innovation and Skills Secretary, Vince Cable, appointed Les Ebdon as the head of the new Office for Fair Access (OFFA), the body charged with safeguarding and promoting fair access to Universities and helping ensure that admission policies do not unfairly discriminate against those in state schools or from less privileged backgrounds.Tory backbenchers (as well as Michael Gove and, it is said, Da [..] > read more Tuesday Titter 17 - Let's Dance for Sport Relief I Published on 2012-02-21 01:00:00 Let's Dance for Sport Relief is back on the tellybox, although I must confess I missed it on Saturday. For those unaquainted with the show, the format is simple: various comedians, actors, singers and personalities recreate classic dances - often for comic effect - in a televised contest raising funds for Comic Relief (the charity which Sport Relief is in aid of. (I may have mentioned it once or twice in the past...)I was discussing this with a friend the other day and we fell to reminiscing abo [..] > read more The Mark of the Beast Published on 2012-02-20 16:48:00 I don't want to freak anyone who is superstitious... but I was checking my Blogger stats last night and I noticed that my recent post on Dexter had had a significant number of readers:Damien... > read more Ads on You Tube... Published on 2012-02-20 01:00:00 ...dontcha just hate 'em?Well, yes, normally (some of them can be rather intrusive) but not when they're the feature of the video themselves. And, of course, benefit from the passage of time to numb the banality of some of them.Here's a collection I found from 1992 which feature a young (or younger) Paul Merton:and here are some from 1988:I could be here all day - but I shall leave them at that for now!Andrew > read more The Art Fund Prize Published on 2012-02-19 16:51:00 The Art Fund Prize Longlist has been announced - 10 museums and galleries which are competing for the £100,000 prize, previously known as the Gulbenkien Prize. This aims to "recognise and stimulate originality and excellence in museums and galleries in the UK, and increase public appreciation and enjoyment of all they have to offer."Previous winners which I have visited are the Scottish National Gallery of Modern Art which won in 2004 for "Landform" - the superb sculptural landscaping of it's f [..] > read more Sunday Sounds 34 Published on 2012-02-19 03:00:00 It's a funny old world - two weeks ago on The Jonathan Ross there were three interview including Jesse J who was there to promote and sing her current single. Last week, the musical guest wasn't interviewed as Mr Ross had three other interviewees, each promoting a film.Now, it may be that the week before someone had dropped out and Jesse J had to fulfil both roles. Perhaps last week was a particularly busy week for actors promoting films. It could be that the various interviewees were considered [..] > read more The New Tory (il)Liberalism - Why Pickles is Wrong. Published on 2012-02-18 08:14:00 The BBC is reporting that the Government is to give councils powers to have prayers as part of formal meetings - and this is confirmed on the Department for Communities and Local Government website.Now, as a Liberal Democrat, I'm all for people's freedom to worship. As someone who grew up in evangelical church circles, I believe I have a better understanding than most of the types of opprobrium than can be directed at people for sincerely held views. I believe that the aim of a Liberal Democracy [..] > read more Guilty Pleasures 10 Published on 2012-02-18 03:00:00 This week's guilty pleasure is as cheesy as they came: Atomic Kitten's Whole Again.Aside from being a slab of pure pop, it has the audacity to start with the same first line as one of the best songs ever written; Bacharach and David's Walk On By! Any song which can do that and pull it off deserves plaudits in my book!Enjoy, even if you don't want to admit it!Andrew > read more MyFitnessPal, Fitness4Less and the Eurythmics Published on 2012-02-17 18:15:00 I don't really believe in New Year's resolutions, although I typically have an idea of some aims and objectives in my head which I occasionally commit to paper - and to posts here in years past. This year I didn't specifically identify any but, given that the aims have been repetitive over the past few years, perhaps I didn't need to.One of the things that has habitually been something I've talked about is losing weight and getting fit. 12 years ago I was 9st 13lb. That was when I was work [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 19 Published on 2012-02-15 01:00:00 So, here we are at NOW! 19... and I'm going to indulge myself. Although the idea is that I choose just one track from each album, this week I'm choosing two. My blog, my rules!First, as this blog does not have enough Gregorian chanting, here is Enigma with Sadeness (Pt 1):And in contrast, the wonderfully rich voice of Oleta Adams with Get Here:Oleta Adams - Get Here on MUZU.Andrew > read more Happy Valentine's Day! Published on 2012-02-14 01:00:00 A Happy Valentine's Day to you all...Love, Andrew... > read more Left, Right or Liberal? Published on 2012-02-13 17:34:00 There has been a flurry of activity over the past few days with the launch of two new groupings within the Liberal Democrats - Liberal Left and now Liberal Reform. There have also been a number of blog posts by some prominent Lib Dem bloggers, including Stephen Glenn, The Hon Lady Mark (also here), Neil Monnery and Gareth Epps - although you may be quicker checking out the latest Lib Dem Golden Dozen for links!As someone on the fringes of being particularly active - at least for now - my contrib [..] > read more Sunday Sounds 33: Whitney Houston 1963-2012 Published on 2012-02-11 20:31:00 Earlier tonight (or, rather, this morning) I read a Digital Spy story about Whitney Houston being wanted as a judge for the second series of X Factor USA. Barely half an hour later her death was announced.Houston was one of the biggest, best and most talented stars of the pop era. Her story is also one of the most tragic as her life, and to some extent her career and reputation, was destroyed by addiction. Her legacy is a songbook which is beyond all but the most talented of singers.Here she is [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 18 Published on 2012-02-08 01:00:00 So, my weekly [sic] journey through the NOW! albums reaches 18 - only 62 to go... After last week's (OK, yesterday's) entry from Depeche Mode, this week's was harder to choose. After much deliberation, though, I've gone with what must be one of the seminal hits of the Nineties. The La's with "There She Goes":Next week, The Clash, The KLF, Massive Attack, Kylie Minogue, Hale & Pace and The Stonkers, Enigma, Oleta Adams, Robert Palmer, Bill medley & Jennifer Warne, The Righteous Brothers, Seal, Ch [..] > read more NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! 17 Published on 2012-02-07 13:57:00 After over a week of not blogging, it's catch-up time here at the widow's world. So here's the NOW! That's What I Call A Tune! that I should have posted last week. Enjoy The Silence:Andrew > read more Book Review: The Kenneth Williams Diaries Published on 2012-01-29 14:15:00 "The [..] > read more Dexter, my new found telly love Published on 2012-01-27 01:00:00 I am one of the most squeamish people I know and the older I get, the more squeamish I've become. I can't watch Horror films - although I do like a good thriller and am alright with a little bit of gratuitous violence now and again. I can't do out and out graphic violence, I can't watch real life medical shows, I can barely watch Casualty for that matter! Now, readers of this blog could be forgiven for being slightly confused, as I've previously posted about my love of TrueBlood. After all, ther [..] > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: R Published on 2011-07-06 01:00:00 And so we reach R, and a choooon from a band who did have other hits but will forever be associated with today's song - Reef. Actually, this is one of those songs which I wasn't necessarily a huge fan of at the time but really like now.Here it is - P > read more 5 on the 5th - July Published on 2011-07-05 14:31:00 > read more Storytelling... by Text Message! Published on 2011-06-30 01:00:00 Today's post is something a bit different: a story composed by text message conversation between me and a friend. This started as spontaneous banter and took on a life of it's own. I've chosen to present it as composed - in bitesize chunks with my pa > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: Q Published on 2011-06-29 01:00:00 There was never - despite seeking alternate candidates from my followers on Twitter - much dispute about who would be featured artists for this entry. Even those, like me, who aren't particular fans have a favourite Queen song or two. So here are 5iv > read more The Scotsman Steps Published on 2011-06-28 01:00:00 Once upon a time, there was a handy short cut which could take the time-pressed traveller from the South end of North Bridge in Edinburgh down to Market Street below and the side entrance to Waverley Train Station. This short cut - the Scotsman Steps > read more On the Ning Nang Nong Published on 2011-06-27 13:59:00 This latest entry in my anthology is one of the favourite poems of my childhood. From the mind of the late, great Spike Milligan, it is quite simply nonsense. I defy you to read this and keep a straight face...On the Ning Nang Nong by Spike MilliganO > read more Sunday Sounds 8 Published on 2011-06-26 06:54:00 This week's Sunday Sound popped into my head during the week and resurfaced this morning. It's an eighties classic from Aztec Camera - Somewhere in My Heart:Andrew > read more Iconic Images 17 Published on 2011-06-24 01:00:00 This latest in my occassional Iconic Images series features two film posters - A Clockwork Orange and Jaws:Andrew > read more The Tailor... a short film Published on 2011-06-23 01:00:00 Today's post is a short film version of the "Jewish joke" Markus Pincus the tailor - although surely a joke's a joke, regardless of context and history. Set in New York, and shot beautifully in black and white, the mostly silent film tells the t > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: P Published on 2011-06-22 01:00:00 This week: Prince. But, for my first choice, I'm taking liberties with my own rules... I've gone for When Dove's Cry but Quindon Tarver's version from the soundtrack to Baz Luhrman's Romeo and Juliet.As it happened, it is next to impossible to find t > read more More Jazz. Nicer... Published on 2011-06-21 06:00:00 Following my earlier post, here's some more jazz with the late, great Humphrey Lyttleton and Bad Penny Blues:Andrew >iri >ir > Simon's Cat in Hidden Treasure Published on 2011-06-17 06:00:00 He's back! And as is usual, he's here:Enjoy!Andrew > read more Simon's Cat in Hidden Treasure Published on 2011-06-17 06:00:00 He's back! And as is usual, he's here: Enjoy! Andrew > Because this will never grow old... (2) Published on 2011-06-14 06:14:00 Further to my post earlier featuring gaffes by James Naughtie and Andrew Marr, here's another classic live radio slip-up. During a sound clip of what is thought to be the oldest recording of the human voice, someone suggests to Charlotte Green it sou > read more Because this will never grow old... Published on 2011-06-14 01:00:00 I enj > read more Leisure Published on 2011-06-13 01:00:00 While I'm not alone in reminiscing about the past and how much life has changed, even during my lifetime, I don't believe in harking back to a Golden Age. Modern life is not necessarily better or worse than in previous generations - just different. O > read more A new window on the widow's world Published on 2011-06-12 11:00:00 Since I started this blog a couple of years ago, I've surprised myself by the number of photos I've taken and posted, largely under the influence of Stephen's 5 on the 5th. So much so, that I've decided to establish a new blog for photographs to augm > read more Sunday Sounds 6 Published on 2011-06-12 08:17:00 Today's Sunday (Pet) Sound has been embedded in my mind as the result of seeing an advert for something or other. It's God Only Knows by The Beach Boys:Enjoy!Andrew > read more Mongrels is coming back Published on 2011-06-11 03:41:00 BBC 3's adult puppet show is coming back. The show is centred on the life of Nelson a kind hearted but rather simple urban fox. It is by turns surreal and puerile and, occasionally, touching. The cast includes an overly pampered pooch, an alley cat, > read more Milton Jones Published on 2011-06-10 06:00:00 Early today I posted a video of Tim Minchin which I found when I was looking for a clip of surreal purveyor of one-liner's, Milton Jones.I therefore belatedly present this video of Mr Jones. Enjoy!Andrew > read more Google Street View - a musical, ehm, tribute... Published on 2011-06-10 01:00:00 Having decided what to post last night, I was looking for clips when I came across this fantastic song by Tim Minchin from Channel 4's Big Fat Quiz of the Year from a few years back. I loved this at the time and, watching it again, I still do!So here > read more Lego Printer Published on 2011-06-09 01:00:00 Thanks to Stumble Upon, I came across this video of a the "Lego felt tip 101" printer in action., Yes, you read that right, the Lego felt tip 101 printer... Created by a genius (and/or geek) from genuine lego and, er, a felt tip, it really works!Than > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: N Published on 2011-06-08 01:00:00 This week here's a bit of New Order for your aural pleasure:Andrew > read more Pretty Pictures - Scottish Edition 2 Published on 2011-06-07 01:00:00 As regular readers know, I've spent the last week at home in Scotland. While there, I managed to get a few snaps taken - here's a selection of some of my favourites. These ones were all taken in Edinburgh.Detail from Sarcophagus in Greyfriars Churchy > read more Bedouin Song Published on 2011-06-06 01:00:00 This week's poem is from a poet I'd never come across until Friday, Bayard Taylor. I could pretend to have learnt all about him but that would be fraudulent, so instead here's his Wikipedia entry.This post is dedicated to my Sister and her new Husban > read more Sunday Sounds 5 Published on 2011-06-05 15:27:00 It's no secret that I'm really liking Adele just now - in contrast to a number of other female artists in the charts she has a very real talent for singing and songwriting and the prospect of a long career ahead of her.Today's song has been running a > read more 5 on the 5th - June Published on 2011-06-05 01:00:00 For picture > read more Public Service Annoucement Published on 2011-06-04 01:00:00 Today I am bringing you a guide to some party/bar tricks which may come in handy... Who says this blog is good for nothing?!You can find more of this sort of thing on Professor Richard Wiseman's most excellant blog.Andrew > read more Oor Wullie, Your Wullie, A'body's Wullie Published on 2011-06-03 01:00:00 © D C Thompson & Co LtdWhilst searching for inspiration for this blog (I wanted a Scottish poem, seeing as I'm at home this week) I came across the following, unattributed poem. Written in the style of Burns' various addresses (To A Haggis, To A > read more Talk This Way Published on 2011-06-02 01:00:00 Here's a brilliant video which is a mash up (as all the cool kids would say) of Run DMC's "Walk This Way" and the sorry saga of Cheryl Cole's brief US X-Factor career.Canny, man (as all the cool Geordie kids might say).Andrew > read more Tributes to the Strength of the Human Spirit Published on 2011-06-01 11:39:00 For most of us in the UK, most of the time, life is a routine of some description - we work, we play, albeit in differing measures. For others here, and countless others around the world, life is more complicated. Circumstances, illness and disease c > read more Not An A-Z of My CDs: M Published on 2011-06-01 05:38:00 I recently had today's entry for this series in my head at work the other week and it prompted this exchange with one of my young colleagues.Me: I've got Madonna stuck in my head. Colleague: Oh, what song? M: Like a Prayer.C: Ah. I can take or leave > read more Just a Minute Reloaded 2 Published on 2011-05-31 01:00:00 Around ca > read more Oh what a lovely pair... Published on 2011-05-30 11:00:00 ...of adverts. No chauvinism intended...Much as I may not be a fan of the product, the 1990s were a purple patch in Tennent's advertising. The various television and cinema adverts which I've featured over the various posts today were part of a wider > read more In which I indulge in some Sado Masochism... Published on 2011-05-30 06:00:00 Earlier today I posted a video of the famous (in Scotland at least) Tennent's advert featuring a Scot packing in London life and returning to the homeland.While researching it, I found lots of other Tennent's adverts, including these two from 1994:If > read more Let me tell you that I love you... Published on 2011-05-30 01:00:00 ...That I think about you all the timeCaledonia, you're calling meAnd now I'm going home.Edinburgh Castle, from my trip home last NovemberIt's not often I mention personal stuff on these pages but it's no secret that later today I'll be flying home t > read more Sunday Sounds 4 Published on 2011-05-29 14:26:00 Welcome to the fourth in my Sunday Sound series. This week I've chosen Bohemian Like You by the Dandy Warhols:Enjoy!Andrew > read more Put Your Hand On Your Heart... Published on 2011-05-28 10:52:00 I was out for a pub lunch with work colleagues yesterday. There was a mix of music playing in the background - including the gem which is Atomic Kitten's Whole Again* - and then the track I'm featuring today was played. Busy as I was with conversatio > read more I. Just. Can't. Wait. Published on 2011-05-27 01:00:00 Every four years since I was a teenager I have, without fail, re-read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. The completeness and consistency of Tolkien's vision of Middle Earth has never ceased to amaze me and I will never tire of it.From the creatio > read more I want one! Published on 2011-05-26 14:21:00 Recently I've enjoyed the Channel 4 comedy Campus (available on the 4OD YouTube page until the 9th June). Made by the folks behind Green Wing, and set in a University, it mixed faux-fly-on-the-wall documentary style with moments of surreal flights of > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: L Published on 2011-05-25 01:00:00 And so we reach "L" and a track from an album I once had a taped copy of. This reminds me of my brief career at University and, in particular, the Chemistry Labs at King's Buildings in Edinburgh. Anyway, this is a great song and I'm so pleased I reme > read more Iconic Images 16 Published on 2011-05-24 01:00:00 For this entry in the Iconic Images strand, I've chosen Leonardo da Vinci's study of the proportions of the human body - the Vitruvian Man - created around 1487. The name is derived from that of a classical architect - Vitruvius - who argued that the > read more Virtual Gallery - Mezzanine 2 Published on 2011-05-23 16:34:00 Displayed on this second Mezzanine level of my Virtual Gallery are three paintings of the featuring Westminster Bridge.This first is by Monet and features the Thames with the Houses of Parliament and Westminster Bridge in the background.The Thames be > read more Upon Westminster Bridge Published on 2011-05-23 01:00:00 This week's poem (I feel justified in calling it "this week's", as I seem to be getting back into my stride with this anthology strand) is Upon Westminster Bridge by Wordsworth. Composed on the 3rd of September 1802, his view would have been fro > read more Sunday Sounds 3 Published on 2011-05-22 05:04:00 This week's Sunday Sound is brought to you courtesy of iTunes DJ. Without any further ado, here's Snow Patrol with Martha Wainright and the super "Set the Fire to the Third Bar".Enjoy!Andrew > read more The Moon. On A Stick. Published on 2011-05-20 06:00:00 Earlier today I posted a clip of Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle. Doing so put me in mind of Fist of Fun - Lee's show drom the early Nineties with his then comedy partner Richard Herring. Here's a clip featuring what, as you can tell by the applause (if > read more Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle Published on 2011-05-20 01:00:00 One of the things I'm enjoying on the tellybox just now is Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle.The format of the show is a themed stand-up gig by Lee, in a small-ish venue. His act is cut with asides to the camera and the television audience as well as segm > read more Cats.... WIth Thumbs! Published on 2011-05-19 01:00:00 As readers who know me will know, I'm a cat lover. Cats are smart, intuitive, loving whilst also being independent and possesive of a certain dignified aloofness. Even so, with some particular cats, you can't help thnking they have an agenda...Enjoy. > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: K Published on 2011-05-18 01:00:00 A glaring omission in my CD collection is the lack of anything by today's featured artists - Kings of Leon. This is obviously something I shall have to rectify soon. Here they are with Sex on Fire:Andrew > read more My Crêpes Suzette Published on 2011-05-17 13:43:00 On Sunday I met a friend for lunch prior to him attending an event in the Bristol Festival of Ideas. With little persuasion, I agreed to join him to hear Christopher Stevens discuss the life of Kenneth Williams, whom he's written a biography of.  > read more Silver Published on 2011-05-17 01:00:00 Today's post is a beautiful poem guaranteed to calm and sooth. Sit down, relax and let the words smooth away the worries of modern life.Silver by Walter de la MareSlowly, silently, now the moonWalks the night in her silver shoon;This way, and that, s > read more The Loyal Society for the Prevention of Mispronunciation Published on 2011-05-16 13:45:00 A special post for those of us who can't say their worms correctly...Enjoy!Andrew > read more Sunday Sounds 2 Published on 2011-05-15 04:47:00 This morning, I've had Texas' version of "You're All I Need To Get By" stuck in my head and that makes it this week's "Sunday Sound" I can't find that version, so here's a version by Aretha Franklin for your enjoyment:...and here's a link to Marvyn G > read more A Liberal Wordle Published on 2011-05-13 14:24:00 Over on Lib Dem Gains I've mentioned Nick Clegg's speech to mark the first anniversary of the coalition government a couple of times over the past few days. Here's a Wordle word cloud generated from the text of the speech:The speech reinforced the re > read more Iconic Images 15 Published on 2011-05-11 18:48:00 For the lastest in my Iconic Images series, I've gone for three classic adverts - Bisto, Pears Soap and Guinness:Andrew > read more And now a chance to get Laid... Published on 2011-05-11 06:00:00 ...courtesy of James.I couldn't stop at Sit Down, so here's Laid. If you're now expecting "Say Something" to be posted later, though, you'd be very much mistaken! I'm going to stick with this, so get your lugs round it:Andrew > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: J Published on 2011-05-11 01:00:00 This week I feature a band whose music takes me back to the latter years of my schooldays.... James. And while they had a number of anthems, it's hard not to regard Sit Down as their most iconic song (although if you want to argue in favour of Laid, > read more Mayday! Mayday! Published on 2011-05-10 01:00:00 Here's a real treat - a clip of classic comedy from Tony Hancock. This is from The Radio Ham in which his inane and surreal conversations with various Hams around the world are interrupted by a Mayday call...Don't say I'm not good to you... Andr > read more Quick Question Published on 2011-05-09 13:09:00 Next season at least seven (and possibly 8) English Premier League teams will be managed by men from just one city. Which one? > read more If... Published on 2011-05-09 01:00:00 One of my favourite poems of all time is If by Rudyard Kipling - which is also the nation's favourite at least according to a poll in 1996. In 1998, a recording of it by Des Lynam was used by the BBC as part of their World Cup coverage of that year.W > read more Sunday Sounds - 1 Published on 2011-05-08 17:13:00 A short while ago, Crowded House's Don't Dream it's Over popped into my head, so I decided to share it here. Not only that, I've decided this could be the start of a semi-regular Sunday feature of random songs - hence the blog post title!Anyway, for > read more The Diving Bell and the Butterfly Published on 2011-05-08 12:11:00 "Write about what you know" is a maxim which has been taught to writers for as long as there have been writers to teach - or at least as long as there have been creative writing classes. Of course, the human mind's capacity for imagination and invent > read more Bristol Photos - Part Four Published on 2011-05-06 01:00:00 Welcome to the latest in my occassional series of pictures taken in and around Bristol. These were taken last Saturday when I went out for a 5-6 mile walk in the sunshine!Light at the end of the tunnel... as long as you're not over 14 foot tallThe fo > read more 5 on the 5th - May Published on 2011-05-05 01:00:00 Once o > read more Why I'm Voting Yes Published on 2011-05-04 14:30:00 In around 10 and half hours from now at 7am on the 5th May, the polls will open on the UK's AV referendum. If you have a vote, I urge you to use it - whatever your views. Obviously, though, I hope you join me in voting yes. There are many reason > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: I Published on 2011-05-04 01:00:00 I ar > read more Lend WIth Care Published on 2011-05-03 01:00:00 Courtesy of this post by fellow blogger Andrew Reeves, I recently became aware of Lend With Care - an initiative developed by the charity Care International.The concept is simple - to link micro-lenders directly with the borrower. Microlending is whe > read more Recent Films Published on 2011-05-02 07:34:00 It's been a while since I posted a film review - and it has, indeed, been a while since I was last at the cinema. Other than Brighton Rock, which I did review, the last few films I saw at the cinema (with my lasting impressions) were:The Tourist - At > read more If you like that, you'll like this... Published on 2011-05-02 06:45:00 Of course, when someone says that, it's not always a given that you will like the recommendation - I love The Lord of the Rings but not a reader of other Fantasy novels although that's maybe because I started at the summit...That said, though, a reco > read more More than just a number... Published on 2011-04-30 05:06:00 While browsing t'interweb (using the magic of Stumble Upon), I came across a website where you can create your own barcode using pieces of personal information. This is mine:Each barcode is also given a value - from memory mine was $6.24. You can cre > read more Bad Republican Published on 2011-04-29 07:09:00 Ladies and Gentlemen, I have a confession to make.I'm a Bad Republican.Despite the fact that I've never been in favour of the Monarchy, I do love a bit of pomp and circumstance. I'm also happy to acknowledge that the present Queen has fulfilled her d > read more Senna: No Fear, No Limits, No Equal Published on 2011-04-29 01:00:00 Today's post is a trailer for the forthcoming documentary film "Senna" which promises to be a fantastic portrait of the legend that was Ayrton Senna.I've been a fan of Formula 1 for years although it is only in recent seasons that I've really got int > read more Say Yes! to Fairer Votes, Say Yes! to AV Published on 2011-04-28 01:00:00 A week today, voters in the UK will be going to polls in only the second ever national referendum, as well elections to the Scottish Parliament, Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies and local elections in parts of England.The referendum question is "D > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: H Published on 2011-04-27 01:00:00 This-re > read more Bristol Photos - Part Three Published on 2011-04-26 06:00:00, retu > read more Hop It! Published on 2011-04-26 01:00:00 It may not be as good as many of the previous episodes, but the latest from Simon's Cat is still worth a viewing.Enjoy!Andrew > read more Cheddar Gorge Published on 2011-04-25 13:29:00 Today I went to Cheddar Gorge and Wells... While in the Gorge, I took some pictures of which these are a few. Enjoy!Andrew > read more No excuses Published on 2011-04-25 13:08:00 If you're a regular reader, please accept my apologies for my lack of posting recently.I offer no excuses, I have no real explanation (other than that I lost momentum while awaiting a new charger for my laptop), and I can only say sorry for the prolo > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: G Published on 2011-04-10 12:48:00 Having missed posting in this strand over the past couple of weeks, I had decided to post the next two entries yesterday and today.... Unfortunately, I never posted yesterday!Here, though, I belatedly present my entry for G... Gorillaz with Clint Eas > read more Walk an Edinburgh Street Published on 2011-04-08 01:00:00 At the end of my weekend in Edinburgh, I came across this poem whilst at the airport. Ever the opportunist, I took a picture with a view to posting it, along with an Edinburgh photo from a previous trip.Andrew > read more Pretty Pictures, Scottish Edition Published on 2011-04-07 14:42:00 As well as being offline while I replaced the power cable for my lap-top, I was also in Scotland for a long weekend. During my stay I took some photos of which the following is a selection:Statue of the late Donald DewarGlasgow Angel (actual title un > read more When Einstein Met Armstrong Published on 2011-04-07 01:19:00 Yesterday Stephen featured a video on his blog which he had made using xtranormal.com. Intrigued, I visited the site and this is my effort. While the camera angles are not quite what I intended, I'm quite pleased for a first attempt!Enjoy!Andrew > read more New ways to view the widow's world Published on 2011-04-06 17:31:00 Blogger has introduced a range of new ways to display blogs, which are quite fun. There are a range of five, two of which I've illustrated with screengrabs below.My favourite, at least for this blog, is Mosaic. Here's a picture of a typical page - an > read more 5 on the 5th - April Published on 2011-04-05 16:36:00 After an enforced break, I now have laptop access again, just in time for this month's 5 on the fifth! This month's theme was "Blur", so here are some that fit that bill:Scottish Parliament at DuskAbstractionAdidasAntony Gormley's Six TimesNikeI > read more Interregnum Published on 2011-03-30 06:39:00 I'm afraid my blogging will be subject to an enforced interregnum due to the failure of my laptop's power cable. I have a new one on order althogh this is likely yo arrive while I'm in Scotland this weekend.Normal service will, hopefully, be resumed > read more From the Vaults: March 2010 Published on 2011-03-28 01:00:00 Today's blog is another of my occasional retrospectives. This time, I've chosen a selection of posts from last March which give a flavour of what I was blogging about this time last year.First up, a picture from the first in my (stalled) series of fe > read more It's Census Time! Published on 2011-03-27 11:15:00 Today is Census Day in the UK and as someone who finds statistics and demographics intriguing, I've dutifully completed and filed mine online. What's more, I'll be looking out for the results being published - which is just the way I roll!Anyway I th > read more Coffee as Theatre Published on 2011-03-25 02:00:00 Earlier this week I popped into Starbucks (as you do) for a Double Caramel Macchiato to go and I noticed they were advertising a number of drinks branded as "Starbucks Reserve".The Barista enthused about this select range (there is a choice of three > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: F Published on 2011-03-23 02:30:00 This week, I've chosen the extraordinary Paloma Faith (whom I had assumed was American but turns out to be a Londoner). This is a live version of her hit, New York:As always, Enjoy!Andrew > read more The People Vs Banksy Published on 2011-03-22 16:02:00 Earlier today, I posted some pictures I took at the Banksy Exhibition held in Bristol in 2009. I mentioned that I had queued for some two hours, along with many thousands more. I didn't however, mention the art project I took part in as I did so.You > read more Virtual Gallery - Room 6 Published on 2011-03-21 19:45:00 For the next room in my eclectic online gallery, I've curated some pieces from the Banksy exhibition held in Bristol in 2009. Over the course of a few months hundreds of thousands of people queued to see the world-famous "graffiti" artist's takeover > read more Some Miscellaneous Pictures Published on 2011-03-19 19:35:00 In the process of clearing the personal details and memories from three old phones which I'm selling, I came across a host of pictures. Here's a selection of five for you with a promise of more to follow...Salisbury CathedralCloisters at Salisbury Ca > read more Let's Dance with Noel Fielding Published on 2011-03-18 07:00:00 Aside from Red Nose Day, Comic Relief is supported by programmes all across the BBC in the weeks leading up to the big day itself. In 2009 (and again in 2010 for Sport Relief) Let's Dance for Comic Relief gave comedians, soap stars and celebrit > read more Iconic Images 14 Published on 2011-03-18 02:00:00 It's always a temptation on Red Nose Day to focus on the Comic rather than the Relief but doing so does an injustice to those whose vision was to use comedy to raise funds to help those who need it both here and in Africa.To that end, I've decided to > read more Happy St. Patricks Day Published on 2011-03-17 02:00:00 wo > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: E Published on 2011-03-16 02:00:00 I'm really enjoying the wide remit to feature artists and songs I like but for one reason or another I don't own in my collection. I also feel like I could go through the alphabet multiple times and not tire of finding old (and new) tunes to feature. > read more Calling all South Dakotans! Published on 2011-03-15 14:51:00 While browsing Google Analytics earlier, I was pleased to note that, at some point or another, my blog has been read in a total of 151 countries, including a viewing in China! Still another 41 (or so) to go, but that's for another day and another pos > read more Doing my bit for The Chain gang... Published on 2011-03-14 16:31:00 Regular, t > read more A Tale of Two Cities Published on 2011-03-12 09:19:00 Thanks to @jpshaddock 's twitter paper, I came across a series of short films which were created as adverts for an international language school. I'm not sure about the soundtracks, but think the footage, narrative and typography are fantastic. They > read more Going. Going. Gone. Published on 2011-03-11 01:00:00 I remember when selling your underwear online was restricted to, how shall we put this, the more exotic corners of the interweb. And largely anonymous.Not, it seems, any more. The lovely Russell Tovey, star of Being Human, is taking part in the Twit > read more The Next Attenborough? Published on 2011-03-10 06:00:00 Following on from my post featuring David Attenborough earlier, here's a clip of Steve Backshall on his CBBC programme "Deadly 60". More than once recently have I heard him touted as the BBC's replacement for the great man who ha > read more Q: When is a bird not a bird? Published on 2011-03-10 01:00:00 A: when it's mimicking a Car Alarm, Camera or Chainsaw. This clip of David Attenborough narrating footage of the Superb Lyrebird was voted the nation's favourite Attenborough moment in 2006:Andrew > read more Fly Fishing Published on 2011-03-09 06:00:00 Further to my earlier post featuring Day V Lately - here's the legendary Yellow Pages ad featuring a certain J. R. Hartley:Andrew > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: D Published on 2011-03-09 01:00:00 This week's entry in my list of CDs by acts whose work I don't own is a bit of fun: it's Day V Lately from the Yell advert which is currently running on British TV:Andrew > read more Let Me Die a Youngman's Death Published on 2011-03-07 16:58:00 It's been a while since I posted a poem - and a long-stated aim that I would recommence this poetry strand within the blog. I'm therefore pleased to be posting this poem by Roger McGough. The light-hearted tone belies the underlying fear of grow > read more 5 on the 5th - March Published on 2011-03-05 05:23:00 It's 5 on the 5th time again. This month, the theme is "lines" which I have loosely adhered to.Taking part is easy - take your five pictures, post them, and submit your details on Stephen's own post. Simples. Once you've done that have a look at ever > read more Iconic Images 13 Published on 2011-03-03 17:32:00 This week, Space Shuttle Discovery docked with the International Space Station on it's 39th and final mission - one of the last by a NASA Space Shuttle before all the remaining vessels are decommissioned. Discovery flew its first mission in 1984 and > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: C Published on 2011-03-02 16:04:00 This week on my list of random songs I like and tracks from artists I've never quite got round to adding to my CD collections, it's the beautiful Corinne Bailey Rae with a live version of "Put Your Records On".Enjoy!Andrew > read more Simon's Cat in "Sticky Tape" Published on 2011-02-28 06:29:00 The ever-brilliant Simon's Cat is back... and this time he's getting into a sticky predicament!Enjoy!Andrew > read more 2 Years of Blogging - kind of! Published on 2011-02-27 04:29:00 > read more 5 on the 5th has a Facelift Published on 2011-02-26 01:00:00 Regular readers will know that I contribute to a monthly photography feature called "5 on the Fifth". The deal is simple - just take five pictures on (or in the lead up to) the fifth of the month and then post them on your blog or photo site. Th > read more Comic Relief Published on 2011-02-24 17:40:00 a > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs: B Published on 2011-02-23 17:58:00 After featuring Adele's fantastic Brit Awards performance last week, which propelled "Someone Like Me" to a re-entry at number 1 in the charts, here's the second entry in my series featuring acts whose music I do not (yet) own, have previously owned, > read more Rock, Paper, Scissors Published on 2011-02-21 15:57:00 Courtesy of Stumble Upon and Flowing Data, here's a guide to winning at Rock, Paper, Scissors:Now, Best of Three?Andrew > read more Bristol Photos - Part Two Published on 2011-02-20 01:00:00 Yesterday I posted some pictures from the 8th January, today I'm posting some pictures from yesterday. These were all taken around Bristol's floating harbour and include two of The Matthew. - a replica of the ship John Cabot used to sail to Newfoundl > read more Bristol Photos - Part One Published on 2011-02-19 12:00:00.The F > read more This is Not Porn Published on 2011-02-18 16:37:00 This is Not Porn is a great photography website featuring fantastic, and often candid pictures of the rich and famous of decades past. Here's a flavour:Nancy Reagan and Mr TStevie Wonder and GroverElton JohnFor much more and larger version of these p > read more Lets do the timewarp again... Published on 2011-02-18 01:00:00 > read more Debtris: Putting things in Perspective Published on 2011-02-16 16:05:00 We all (well mostly all, unless you're Ed Balls) know that the budget deficit is huge. Indeed, most of the economic facts and figures involve huge figures well beyond the comprehension of most mere mortals. How does it compare with, for example, the > read more Not an A-Z of my CDs Published on 2011-02-16 01:00:00. Th > read more What Price Democracy? Published on 2011-02-15 15:04:00 As you will probably know, in a little over two and a half months there will be a referendum as to whether the UK should move from the current system of "First Past the Post" for Westminster elections to the "Alternative Vote".There are many good rea > read more 6 times Published on 2011-02-15 01:00:00 > read more Magical Urbanism Published on 2011-02-14 16:40:00 Using Stumble Upon, as I do, really can lead to finding amazing, interesting and life-enhancing websites. Tonight I have discovered Magical Urbanism. It's a great site featuring wonderful cityscapes both real and imagined. I really do recommend you v > read more Valentine, be mine... Published on 2011-02-13 18:28:00 I had intended to try and find something about celebrating the joys and perks of being single for this post but struggled to find anything suitable - and all of it from a woman's perspective. I did find this about an annual anti-valentines day event > read more Fast and Loose Published on 2011-02-12 04:53:00 Once upon a time there was a Radio 4 comedy called "Whose Line is it Anyway?" Due to a monumental failure of vision on the part of BBC Television, the TV rights were bought by Channel 4. After a stuttering start while they adapted to the visual mediu > read more Protection of Freedoms Bill - Cross Post Published on 2011-02-11 15:52:00 Cross Posted from Lib Dem GainsToday the government unveiled it's Freedom Bill. As is tradition with these posts, I'll quote from both the Conservative and Liberal Democrat Manifestos... and the Coalition Programme for government:First the Conservati > read more Quiet, Please! Published on 2011-02-10 13:17:00 Shhhhhh!Andrew > read more An A-Z of my CDs: W Published on 2011-02-09 13:41:00 > read more Brighton Rock Published on 2011-02-08 18:32:00 Earlier this evening, I went to see Brighton Rock. I should point out that I have neither seen the 1947 version of the film, featuring Richard Attenborough, nor read the novel. Sam Riley is Pinkie Brown, a runner in a Brighton gang who witnesses the > read more Donations Gratefully Received Published on 2011-02-07 13:49:00 > read more 5 on the 5th - February Published on 2011-02-05 07:44:00 po > read more Jus' Like That... Published on 2011-02-04 13:54:00 ... the late, great Tommy Cooper:No need to tell you to "Enjoy"!Andrew > read more The Day the Music Died Published on 2011-02-03 01:00:00 th > read more An A-Z of my CDs: U Published on 2011-02-02 01:00:00 ma > read more Reduce, Reuse, Recycle... Repurpose Published on 2011-02-01 01:00:00 I've featured sites I've found via Stumble Upon here before - and todays post is borrowed from another (which in turn had borrowed it from another blog!). So not only is this post about redeploying some common household objects to alternate uses - it > read more The Gathering Published on 2011-01-30 12:07:00 The blurb on the back of the book describes the novel thus:"The nine surviving children of the Hegarty clan gather in Dublin for the wake of their wayward brother Liam. It wasn't the drink that killed him - although that certainly helped - it was wha > read more What this blog needs is a touch of class... Published on 2011-01-28 01:00:00 ....but be > read more The Lord of the Rings: How it Should Have Ended Published on 2011-01-27 01:11:00 Anyone who knows me, knows I'm a lifelong fan of Lord of the Rings. I read the books every four years and love the monumental achievement which the films represent. That said, I do understand those who feel the whole undertaking of the fellowship cou > read more An A-Z of my CDs: T Published on 2011-01-26 01:00:00 T > read more Cock! Balls! Tits! Text RUDE to 70011 to Donate. Published on 2011-01-21 06:37:00 No, I've not developed Tourettes. Instead, this is a post about The Rude Road Trip undertaken by the guys from The Inbetweeners in aid of Comic Relief. Like the show, the premise glories in puerile and infantile humour - the guys set out to visi > read more Mooooo.... Published on 2011-01-20 01:00:00 Surfing the interweb last night, as one does, I was reminded of the cow parade held in Edinburgh a few years ago. For the uninnitiated, cow parade is a public art event which involves individulas, companies and community groups sponsoring and paintin > read more An A-Z of my CDs: S (Part 2) Published on 2011-01-19 06:00:00 Pretty much anyone who knows me will know that one of my favourite bands (if not the favourite) is Texas, fronted by Sharleen Spiteri. But "T" is next week's entry, so here's Sharleen going solo with "All the Times I Cried":and here's "Stop, I Don't > read more An A-Z of my CDs: S (Part 1) Published on 2011-01-19 01:00:00 This week An A-Z of my CDs is a two-parter. First up, a lady who was featured with the Pet Shop Boys in my entry a couple of weeks ago: the incomparable Dusty Springfield:Here's the sublime "If You Go Away":and here's "Son of a Preacher Man":Enjoy!An > read more I want a flying bubblecar! Published on 2011-01-18 06:00:00 And after mentioning The Jetsons on my earlier post, here they are. (You knew this was coming, right?)Enjoy! > read more Back to the Future Published on 2011-01-18 01:00:00 When I was young, futuristic visions of the world were focused on the year 2000. I'm convinced we were promised that we would be living in a version of the world not dissimilar to that in The Jetsons. I am still bitter about being misled. I've come a > read more Express Chuckles Published on 2011-01-15 04:49:00 Here's a picture from cracked.com that I came across courtesy of Stumble!:Made me chuckle, at least!Andrew > read more 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... Published on 2011-01-13 01:00:00 Thunderbirds Are Go!Enjoy!Andrew > read more Parker? Published on 2011-01-12 06:00:00 Yes, M'Lady?Aren't these just F A B, Parker?Yes, M'Lady.Available from the Royal Mail or by steaming off envelopes...Andrew > read more An A-Z of My CDs: R Published on 2011-01-12 01:00:00 After Finlay Quaye last week - which was, I grant you, a bit leftfield - I'm returning to more familiar territory this week with "R".First though, a word about who it's not. It's not Razorlight, although I had been thinking that it would be when I co > read more Nocturnes Published on 2011-01-11 06:00:00 Kazuo Ishiguro is one of my favourite authors. His books take the reader on voyages of the imagination; not just to other times and places but into the thoughts, feelings and memories of the central characters. He explores the power of the past on in > read more My Lords, Ladies and Gentlemen... Published on 2011-01-11 01:00:00 ... I am proud to announce that this blog is now 300 posts old!And for those of you who like this sort of thing here's the trailer. It's not really my cup of tea but it takes all sorts - Enjoy!Andrew > read more The Day Today Published on 2011-01-10 01:00:00 Last > read more Down Wit De Kids. Innit. Published on 2011-01-08 01:00:00 Another gem courtesy of Stumble! - a website that translates text to that of a 12 year old chatroom user. Here's a sample, using this post from the other day:LIEF AS A BLOGER CAN B STRANGE!!1!1 WTF LOL SOMETIEMS UR BRIMNG OVER WIT IEDAS - WHICH U MAY > read more Ukraine's Got Talent Published on 2011-01-07 13:29:00 Thanks to Stumble! I've discovered the following videos featuring an artist called Kseniya Simonova who won Ukraine's Got Talent in 2009. She creates "Sand Animations" - creating a series of pictures and telling stories using only a lightbox and sand > read more The 1,000,000 book give-away Published on 2011-01-06 15:29:00 Life as a blogger can be strange. Sometimes, you're brimming over with ideas - which you may or may not manage to convert to a post - and at other times inspirations seems miles away. Most of the time you can manage to sustain things under their own > read more 5 on the 5th - January 2011 Published on 2011-01-05 14:30:00 After e > read more An A-Z of my CDs: Q Published on 2011-01-05 01:00:00 This, > read more A DVD Extra for The Archers... Published on 2011-01-04 17:18:00 This has just come to my attention and it's too good not to commit to posterity here, despite the lateness of the hour and the fact that I've already posted twice today!Even if you're not a fan of The Archers, you may well have heard of the demise of > read more the widow's world in 2010 - according to Google Analytics Published on 2011-01-04 11:00:00 2010 was my first complete calender year of blogging, which saw me going from blogging around every 2-3 day to almost daily posts by the end of the year. I blog primarily for my own pleasure although I do check viewings of my blog on a regular basis. > read more Back to Work... and Back to the Blog(s) Published on 2011-01-04 01:00:00 As this post goes live, I will be in the process of getting ready for the return to work after the Christmas and New Year break. A break which has also seen my posting levels decrease from what had become an almost daily occurrence to just twice in t > read more Happy New Year Published on 2010-12-31 18:00:00 This post does exactly what it says on the tin, so: Happy New Year Bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong... BONG Wishing you all the best for the coming year.Andrew > read more

logging in or signing up secchi reconstruction 062004: March 24, 2008 This Presentation is Public Favorites: 0 Presentation Description No description available. Comments Posting comment... Premium member Presentation Transcript 3D ELECTRON DENSITY RECONSTRUCTION FROM THE SECCHI CORONAGRAPHS and EUVI ONBOARD STEREO: 3D ELECTRON DENSITY RECONSTRUCTION FROM THE SECCHI CORONAGRAPHS and EUVI ONBOARD STEREO Jeffrey Newmark, John Cook Naval Research Laboratory (202) 767-0244 [email protected]: Outline SECCHI 3D Reconstruction and Visualization Website: Presentation Based on SECCHI Consortium Meeting, April 2004, CA Overview of 3D related activities by consortium Details of selected activities Heliospheric Imager – overview, science planning, CMEs SMEI – not STEREO, early results, prelude for HI ConclusionsSECCHI Science Overview: SECCHI Science Overview SECCHI SPD 2003 <#>Methodologies: Methodologies MHD modeling Forward Fitting Requires parameterization of model Number of parameters could be large 2D projection is given, only 3D coordinates need to be constrained by 2nd STEREO image Strategy: develop tool with automated 2D-parameterization of curvi-linear features (loops, filaments, fluxropes, sigmoids, postflare loops, etc.) 3D coordinate can be first constrained by a-priori model (potential field, force-free, simple geometries, and then iteratively refined with projections from 2nd image, starting with the most unique and unambigous tie-points. Examples: Stereoscopy (most suitable for EUVI early in the mission), inclusion of magnetic field Inversion Inversions generally are coarse because of data noise, ambiguities, non-uniqueness Advantage of inversions: they are model-independent, non-parametric Examples: Tomography, Pixon reconstruction Combination - None, one, or both methods yield a good fit to data, disproves both models, confirms one model, or ambiguous choice SECCHI Group Activities (1): SECCHI Group Activities (1) NRL 3D Reconstruction of White Light Coronagraph Images from Multiple Viewpoints – Cook, Newmark, Reiser, Yahill – Tomography, Pixon reconstruction, 3D data cube rendering Differential Emission Measure (DEM) Tool for EUVI – Cook, Newmark – comparison with forward fitting models Streamer Simulation – Vourlidas, Marque, Howard, Thernisien – model comparison to data, 3D data cube rendering CME Mass and Energetics Toolbox – Vourlidas, Thernisien, Howard – based on LASCO tools JPL Tie Point Tool – De Jong, Liewer, Hasll, Lorre – manual stereoscopy SynLOS: synthetic LOS Tool for SECCHI white Light Images – Liewer, Hall, Lorre – 3D data cube rendering LMSAL/Rice 3D Reconstruction of Stereoscopic Images from EUVI – Aschwanden, Lemen, Wuelser, Alexander – forward modeling and constraint time seriesSECCHI Group Activities (2): SECCHI Group Activities (2) ROB Computer Aided CME Tracking (CACTus) – Robbrecht, Berghmans, Lawrence, Van der Linden – pipeline processing automated CME catalog – based on LASCO – not reconstruction tool presently Computer Aided EIT Wave and Dimming Detection – Podladchikova, Berghmans, Zhukov - pipeline processing automated EIT waves and dimming regions catalog – based on EIT – not reconstruction tool presently Solar Weather Browser (SWB) – Nicula, Berghmans, Van der Linden – browse tool, not reconstruction tool presently (Apparent) Velocity Map Construction – Hochedez, Gissot – full motion analysis software of EUV and WL using optical flow techniques – tracking, detection, stereoscopic reconstruction MPS (formerly MPAe) Finite Element Tomography Code (FETOC) – Inhester – 3D tomography inversion code – coronal magnetic filed model can be used as a constraint Stereoscopy of EUV loops – Portier-Fozzani (Athens), Inhester – parameterized, forward fitting loop model Reconstruction of coronal magnetic fields (LINFF, NONLINFF) – Wiegelmann, Inhester – 3D coronal magnetic field from boundary data, interfaces to provide reconstructed field for stereoscopy and tomography SECCHI Group Activities (3): SECCHI Group Activities (3) MPS/UB cont. Real-time and 3D visualization of STEREO images – Bothmer, Kraupe, Schwenn, Podlipnik, Cremades, Wiegelmann – planetarium display 3D Structure of CMEs: Origin, Internal Magnetic Field Configuration and Near-Sun Evolution – Bothmer, Cremades, Tripathi – comparison of model prediction (magnetic field + H-alpha based) and data JHU/APL – Automatic solar feature recognition and classification – Rust, Bernasconi, LaBonte – solar filaments, sigmoids, chirality, and CMEs – EUVI – helicity is important for 3D modeling Obs. de Paris – Combining Nancay Radio heliograph with SECCHI instruments – Pick, Kerdraon – identification of emitting coronal structures, source regions SMEI (not SECCHI, but related to HI) - Jackson, Tappin, Hick, Webb – IPS and Thomson scattering Modeling/Tomography – solar wind model dependent, low resolution, developed from techniques based on Helios data SECCHI Group Activities: MHD Modeling: SECCHI Group Activities: MHD Modeling NRL – Klimchuk, Antiochos, DeVore, Karpen, Lopez-Fuentes, Lynch, MacNeice, Magara, Patsourakos MHD CME initiation and propagation, Coronal loop structure, Coronal heating, Loop plasma evolution (incl. Prominences), Coronal hole evolution, Flux emergence, Active region structure 3D Visualization - Heliospace package, Developed with ARL (Tim Hall), Based on FAST (NASA/Ames) SAIC – Mikic, Linker, Riley, Lionello – coronal and Heliospheric timde dependent MHD model = MAS Univ. Alabama – Wu – MHD models GSFC CCMC – hosts modelsSpecific Examples: Specific ExamplesNRL 3D WL: Reconstruction: NRL 3D WL: Reconstruction Strategy: Apply 3D tomographic electron density reconstruction techniques to solar features from low corona through heliosphere to 1 AU. Utilize Brightness, polarized brightness, temporal, 2D white light coronagraph images and synthetic models from 2/3 vantage points, construct (time dependent) 3D electron density distribution. Focus: Use theoretical CME models and existing LASCO observations prior to STEREO launch in order to predict the range of conditions and features where reconstruction techniques will be applicable. Goal: Provide a practical tool that will achieve ~daily CME 3D electron density models during the STEREO mission. Study realistic complexities: Input Synthetic Models -> density structures (uniform vs. cavity vs. “realistic”), K/F corona, time dependence NRL 3D WL: Key Aspects : NRL 3D WL: Key Aspects Renderer - Physics (Thomson scattering), tangential and radial polarization brightness, total brightness, finite viewer geometry, optically thin plasma. Reconstruction Algorithm - PIXON (Pixon LLC), Pina, Puetter, Yahil (1993, 1995) - based upon minimum complexity, non-parametric, locally adaptive, iterative image reconstruction. Roughly analogous to multiscale (wavelet) methods (not as closely related to maximum entropy). chosen for speed (large # voxels, up to 10^9): small number of iterations, intelligent guidance to declining complexity per iteration. Sample times have been 32x32x32 <15 minutes, 64x64x64 ~60 minutes, 128x128x128~6 hrs, (1 GHz PC). Minimum complexity: With this underdetermined problem, we make minimal assumptions in order to progress. Another possibility is forward modelling, i.e. parameter fitting. Complementary approach. Visualization - 3D electron density distribution, time dependent (movies), multiple instrument, multiple spacecraft, physics MHD models.3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen)Three Orthogonal Viewpoints: Rendered Data (1): 3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen) Three Orthogonal Viewpoints: Rendered Data (1)3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen)Three Orthogonal Viewpoints: Rendered Data (2): 3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen) Three Orthogonal Viewpoints: Rendered Data (2)3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen)Three Orthogonal Viewpoints: Image Visualization: 3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen) Three Orthogonal Viewpoints: Image Visualization3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen)Three Ecliptic Viewpoints: Image Visualization: 3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen) Three Ecliptic Viewpoints: Image Visualization3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen)Two Viewpoints: Image Visualization: 3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen) Two Viewpoints: Image VisualizationNRL 2: Determining the Ne for a CME: NRL 2: Determining the Ne for a CME For a transient event, such as a CME, the problem of determining K is quite straightforward, since we are only interested in the excess mass. In this case we use a pre-event image to subtract the entire background from the image that contains the event. Knowing the electron density, a simple conversion calculates the mass Note: calculating the total excess mass only counts mass that comes up from below the occulting disk – it does not consider mass that has been transported from lower to higher heights, all within the field of view of that coronagraph This procedure has been automated, and only needs to know the times of the event, the radial height of the leading edge, the central latitude or position angle and the angular span. Vourlidas et al 2003 has derived the following plot of the results of calculating the mass of over 4000 LASCO CMESNRL 2: Determining Ne for a Coronal Structure: NRL 2: Determining Ne for a Coronal Structure To calculate the electron density in a non-transient structure requires a different technique. We have developed two different approaches, one using polarized brightness observations and the other using total brightness observations. The software for both of these approaches is available in the LASCO software tree. In both techniques, a radial cut through the pB or Bt corona, at a particular position angle, is obtained and then fit to a polynomial. Using an assumption of spherical symmetry, we then can then perform the inversion. The pB technique was developed by van de Hulst in the 1950s and has been used for many years by many groups. It depends on the assumption that pB = K, ie that all the other sources contributing to the observations are not polarized. This is usually not a bad assumption inside of about 3-4 solar radii. The Bt technique was developed by Hayes et al (2001). It depends on knowledge of each of the contributions given earlier.NRL 2: Forward Modeling: NRL 2: Forward Modeling Another technique we have started on is to assume a structure and then empirically generate a good fit to the observations. The difficultly with this approach is that the structure is only as good as your imagination and that many different structures may be equally suitable (or unsuitable) This procedure allows you to specify the location in solar coordinates of a structure or combination of structures that are present in the corona and then allows you to view the resulting brightness image that would be generated from any angle. The structures must be expressed analytically. We currently have various structures defined to represent possible streamer structures (slabs with a gaussian density, constant density cross section or gaussian-ellipsoid cross sections; a warped current sheet), a coronal hole. We will be adding structures of possible CME representations – cone, spherical shell, ellipsoidal shell are currently envisioned. We will also be making it more “user-friendly”.JPL: SynLOS - Hemisphere CME at 20° viewed from SC at -30°: JPL: SynLOS - Hemisphere CME at 20° viewed from SC at -30° CME at 20° x y -30° HI2 R=48 Rsun HI1 R=32 Rsun COR2 R=4 Rsun sc sc sc sc FOV of COR2 & dat cube FOV of HI2 & data cube FOV of HI1 & data cube (Sun in center of 1 AU circle) earth earthJPL: Stereoscopy: Tie Point Tool: JPL: Stereoscopy: Tie Point Tool Classical Stereoscopy: Determine 3D location of a “Feature” identified in both images of a stereo pair using triangulation Minimum platform-independent tool (Now Exists): Manual placement of tie points in displayed stereo image pair Computation of 3D location of feature in heliographic coordinate system (uses program xyzsun) Can be used to trace out loops (EUVI) and to compute 3D velocities of features from time series of stereo images, e.g., CME velocities (CORs and HIs)Slide22: LMSAL: Forward-fit Algorithm for Stereo Image Pair 1. Selection of structure-rich multi-wavelength image from TRACE, EIT, and/or Yohkoh database (with filament, flare, CME, fluxropes, etc.) 2. Tracing linear features (loops, filaments, fluxropes) in 2D: s(x,y) 3. Inflation from 2D to 3D with prescription z(x,y) s(x,y) -> s(x,y,z) 4. Physical model of structures: T(s), n(s), p(s), EM(s) 6. Line-of-sight integration EM(x’,y’)=EM(x’,y’,z’)dz’ and convolution with instrumental response function 5. Geometric rotation to different stereo angles EM(x,y,z) -> EM(x’,y’,z’) Slide23: LMSAL: 3D Geometry [x(s),y(s),z(s)] of coronal coronal structures, such as filaments, loops, arcades, flares, CMEs, … - Geometric definitions : 1-dim parametrization along magnetic field lines is in low-beta plasma justified --> [x(s),y(s),z(s)] - Cross-sectionial variation for loops, --> A(s) - Start with tracing in 2D in first STEREO image --> [x(s),y(s)] - Model for 3D inflation z(s), e.g. semi-circular loops with vertical stretching factor z(s)=sqrt[(x(s)^2 + y(s)^2]*q_stretch - Forward-fitting to second STEREO image to determine q_stretchSlide24: STEREO - A STEREO - BSlide25: LMSAL: Tracing linear features : --> [x(s),y(s)] High-pass filtering Feature tracing, reading coordinates, spline interpolationSlide26: Step 3: 3D Inflation: z=0 -> z(x,y) - model (e.g. semi-circular loops) - magnetic field extrapolation - curvature minimization in 3D s(x,y) LMSAL s(x,y,z)Slide27: * LMSAL: 3D Fitting: F[x(s),y(s),z(s)] Volume rendering of coronal structures Flux fitting in STEREO image Volume filling of flux tube with sub-pixel sampling Render cross-sections by superposition of loop fibers with sub-pixel cross-sections: A=Sum(A_fiber), with w_fiber<pixel Loop length parametrization with sub-pixel steps ds<pixel Flux per pixel sampled from sub-pixel voxels of loop fibersSlide28: LMSAL: Forward-Fitting of Arcade Model with 200 Dynamic Loops Observations from TRACE 171 A : Bastille-Day flare 2000-July-14Slide29: * LMSAL: 4D Fitting: F[x(s),y(s),z(s),t] of coronal coronal structures - Flux fitting in STEREO image #1 at time t1 : - Flux fitting in STEREO image #2 at time t1 - Sequential fitting of images #1,2 at times t = t2, t3, …. , tnSlide30: LMSAL: 5D Model: DEM [x(s),y(s),z(s),T(s),t] with dynamic physical model Ingredients for flare loop model : - 3D Geometry [x(s), y(s), z(s)] - Dynamic evolution [x(s), y(s), z(s), t] - Heating function E_heat(s) - Thermal conduction -F_cond(s) - Radiative loss E_rad(s) = -n_e(s)^2 [T(s)] -> Differential emission measure distribution dEM(T,t)/dT -> Line-of-sight integration EM(T)= n_e(z,T,t)^2 dz (STEREO angle) -> Instrumental response function R(T) -> Observed flux F(x,y,t)= EM(T,t) * R(T) dT -> Flux fitting of 5D-model onto 3D flux F(x,y,t) for two stereo angles (4D) and multiple temperature filters (5D)Slide31: Eva Robbrecht David Berghmans Gareth Lawrence Royal Observatory of Belgium ROB CACTus Computer Aided CME TrackingSlide32: time distance from Sun time distance from Sun S W N E The catalyst θ r ROBSlide33: ROB: Sample Output (test data Nov ’03)Slide34: J-F Hochedez, Royal Observatory of Belgium EIT 304, Shutterless June 2003 Example of a EUV solar images decomposition Wavelet transform & segmentation Classification based on object parameters Possibility of tracking objects Application to SECCHI: tiepoints ROBSlide35: ROB: Sample LASCO images:Slide36: ROB: Developmental Solar Data Browser:MPS: Magnetic fields toolsThomas Wiegelmann and Bernd Inhester: MPS: Magnetic fields tools Thomas Wiegelmann and Bernd Inhester STEREO/SECCHI has no magnetograph. Why do we develop magnetic field tools then? Magnetic field dominates and structures the solar corona (magnetic pressure >> plasma pressure) Coronal magnetic field is useful/necessary for Tomography and Stereoscopy. Photospheric magnetic field data are (will be) available e.g. from Kitt Peak, SOHO/MDI (SOLIS, Solar-B)MPS: Magnetic fields and coronal tomography: MPS: Magnetic fields and coronal tomography Use only line of sight density integrals. Use only magnetic field data. Use both line of sight density integrals and magnetic field as regularization operator. MPS: Magnetic field outlines the coronal plasma: MPS: Magnetic field outlines the coronal plasma EIT-image and projected magnetic field lines. Planed is (for SECCHI) to project the magnetic field on both images => magnetic Stereoscopy 3D magnetic field lines, linear force-free field with α · L=2Slide40: MPS: Global Potential Field reconstructionMPS: Summary magnetic fields: MPS: Summary magnetic fields Potential magnetic fields and linear force free fields are popular due to their mathematic simplicity and available data. (e.g. from MDI on SOHO, Kitt Peak) Nonlinear force free fields are necessary to describe active regions exactly. More challenging both observational and mathematical. A consistent 3D model of the solar corona requires tomographic inversion and magnetic reconstruction in one model. Slide42: NRL: MHD 2.5D Spherical Breakout P. J. MacNeice et al, ApJ, in press – properties of model Lynch et al, ApJ submitted – comparison with observationsNRL: MHD: Density (top), Brightness (bottom): NRL: MHD: Density (top), Brightness (bottom)NRL: MHD: 3D Spherical Breakout: NRL: MHD: 3D Spherical Breakout Nonaxisymmetric multipolar field 3D generalization of previous work Visualization uses interpolation onto Cartesian gridNRL: MHD: Corona Loop Structure: NRL: MHD: Corona Loop Structure TRACE 171 Image Extrapolated Flux Tube Lopez-Fuentes & KlimchukNRL: MHD: 3D Spherical Breakout: NRL: MHD: 3D Spherical Breakout B_radial, flux, density, temperature B_radial, flux, grid SAIC: MAS Model Highlights: SAIC: MAS Model HighlightsSAIC: MAS Model Highlights (cont.): SAIC: MAS Model Highlights (cont.)SAIC: MHD Model of the Corona and Heliosphere: SAIC: MHD Model of the Corona and HeliosphereSlide51: SAIC: 3D CME Eruption: Magnetic Field TopologySynoptic Map: Synoptic MapHeliospheric Imager (HI): Heliospheric Imager (HI)Slide56: HI Operations Document – R. Harrison HI Image Simulation – C. Davis & R. Harrison HI Operations Scenarios – R. Harrison & S. Matthews HI Beacon Mode Specification – S. Matthews Heliospheric ImagerSlide57: HI in a nutshell: First opportunity to observe Earth-directed CMEs along the Sun-Earth line in interplanetary space - the first instrument to detect CMEs in a field of view including the Earth! First opportunity to obtain stereographic views of CMEs in interplanetary space - to investigate CME structure, evolution and propagation. Method: Occultation and baffle system, with wide angle view of the heliosphere, achieving light rejection levels of 3x10-13 and 10-14 of the solar brightness. Heliospheric ImagerSlide58: HI in a nutshell: Door Radiator Forward Baffles Inner Baffles HI-1 HI-2 Heliospheric ImagerSlide59: Heliospheric ImagerSlide60: HI – Image Simulation HI Point Spread Function & noise included. Not included: Earth/Moon HI-2 Simulated Image - nominal exposure (60 s) - non-shutter effect included. F-corona & stray light Stellar ‘background’ down to 13th mag. Planets Saturation of brightest planets & stars Cosmic rays The story so far... HI2 OcculterSlide61: HI- Simulation Movies 512 x 512Considerations – HI FOV, CMEs: Considerations – HI FOV, CMEs HI common volume observed highly dependent on angular position (mission duration). Temporal confusion from voxels whose emission observed at the CCDs originates at different times: light travel time differences across the field of view. Both of the above optimal with Earth directed plasma CME speed = 800 km/s vs. summed exposure time Voxel identification confusion in reconstructions with temporal development Resolution of features: approximately the number of pixels crossed in HI summed individual exposures. HI-1 (35”/pixel) => 30 min. summing, 36x36 pixels (Sun-Earth line, 45º velocity) HI-2 (120”/pixel) => 60 min. summing, 32x32 pixels (Sun-Earth line, 90º velocity) Slide63: SMEI Early ResultsConclusions: Conclusions Useful 3D reconstructions are achievable! There are real limitations that we must understand and that will define which reconstructions are possible. The reconstructions are significantly improved with the addition of a third viewpoint to the reconstruction, such as could be provided during the STEREO mission by an operating LASCO coronagraph on the SOHO spacecraft. Application to SECCHI will require substantial effort and collaboration; we appreciate all help on scientific preparations. Funding? Web Site: (follow link to 3D R&V). This contains past presentations and all necessary details to test reconstruction methods on sample problems. Slide69: BACKUP SLIDES3-D Reconstruction Using the Pixon Method: 3-D Reconstruction Using the Pixon Method The problem is to invert the integral equation with noise: But there are many more model voxels than data pixels. And the reconstruction significantly amplifies the noise. All reconstruction methods try to overcome these problems by restricting the model; they differ in how they do that. A good first restriction is non-negative n(r). Non-Negative Least-Squares (NNLS) fit. Minimum complexity (Ockham’s razor): restrict n(r) by minimizing the number of parameters used to define it. The number of possible parameter combinations is large. An exhaustive parameter search is not possible. The Pixon method is an efficient iterative procedure that approximates minimum complexity by finding the smoothest solution that fits the data (details: Puetter and Yahil 1999). New modification: Adaptive (Hierarchical) GriddingK-Corona Physics: Thomson Scattering: K-Corona Physics: Thomson Scattering K-corona arises from Thomson scattering of Photons by hot coronal electrons. The scattered radiation is polarized. The sun as an extended source modifies the scattering process.K-Corona Physics: Emission Coefficients: K-Corona Physics: Emission Coefficients Separate scattered radiation into tangentially and radially polarized light. The tangential emission coefficient (ph s-1 cm-3 sr-1 ) may be written as: And the radial emission coefficient is: Where we explicitly account for extended sun limb darkeningPIXON: Adaptive (Hierarchical) Gridding: PIXON: Adaptive (Hierarchical) Gridding Naïve voxel size at the resolution of the projected detector pixels results in 109 voxels. This is computationally unmanageable (or at least very time consuming). The number of voxels greatly exceeds the number of independent data points, which is only 4x106. We propose to solve both problems by using a hierarchical 3-D grid, which is coarse where the (projected) data show n(r) to be smooth and is progressively refined where the data require n(r) to be more structured. While the Pixon method does not require an adaptive grid, it can take advantage of it in imposing maximum smoothness to increase computational speed by a more efficient calculation.3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen)Three Ecliptic Viewpoints: Rendered Data (1): 3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen) Three Ecliptic Viewpoints: Rendered Data (1)3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen)Three Ecliptic Viewpoints: Rendered Data (2): 3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen) Three Ecliptic Viewpoints: Rendered Data (2)3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen)Two Viewpoints: Rendered Data: 3D Reconstruction: CME model (J. Chen) Two Viewpoints: Rendered Data 37° Spacecraft Separation You do not have the permission to view this presentation. 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This page is for discussing anything related to Solar Community Housing and its Wiki page. Controversy This discussion has moved to The Davis Voice. In it, the final, edited version of Pxl's letter appears with response and comments.: [email protected] Note: You must be logged in to add comments 2010-01-21 02:29:10 I can see some arguments for including this, and for not doing so. Pro: It seems like it is similar to the experiences that people post all the time for rental units. (Although it is MUCH longer.) So in the sense that it describes that person's view of what it was like to live there, it seems like we should include it (but as a comment, not as main content). Con: It's also an attack on a set of people within SCHA, and goes beyond being descriptive in that it attempts to get people who are likely not involved in SCHA to affect the composition of the SCHA leadership. To me, that falls more under the categories of politics and advertising (for a particular goal), and doesn't really feel appropriate to the Wiki. Every group with enough people has its own internal politics. This really seems like an internal matter for SCHA... —IDoNotExist 2010-01-21 07:45:17 SCHA forced me out of the co-op in an illegal and unethical manner. I think it is very important that former co-opers, other co-opers, future coopers, and the general public know what's going on. I could see some of the personal statements moved to the comments section and the facts kept in place. There are so many controversial decisions that the board has made, I think a controversy section is important to highlight this. The Board tried to silence me form the organization, so the wiki is the ONLY place I have to air these complaints. —PxlAted 2010-01-21 08:02:46 PxlAted, I saw your long, personal letter of complaint against SCHA. Until such a time as you rewrite it to be in wiki format rather than personal-rant format, strip it of your opinion and analysis, and clean it of any accusations which are libelous, I'm going to do my damned best to keep it out of the main page. Statements which are not of fact but which speculate about the motivations of certain board members are not appropriate. State the facts and let the reader draw conclusions. For instance, stating that a board member tried to change the bi-laws just to keep his girlfriend in the housing unit is unacceptable, unless you've already sued them and a court of law has determined this to be so. Stating that the board member tried to change the bi laws, and that his girlfriend happened to exceed the income limit, allowing the reader to put two and two together, IS acceptable. Clean it up, shrink it down, remove the editorializing, but until then, keep it out, and find some other outlet to use to attack these people. Like court. —EdwardNiemand We've had this discussion before: The text is attributed and we are immune from liability under section 230 of the CDA. Please stop invoking the legal system unnecessarily. Just because you're a lawyer, you have a hammer (the legal system) and everything you see seems to be a nail. Also, rulings of a court aren't some great proof of truth or falsehood. Look at all the so-called "experts" who are allowed to testify under the Daubert standard. —WilliamLewis 2010-01-21 08:11:42 edward, I didn't think everything had to be NPOV... —PxlAted 2010-01-21 08:16:43 I heard something about your conflict with the board from a few former members of the complex... it's my understanding that the secret meeting you're talking about was basically just a meeting without you present but with everyone else there, and a bunch more, where a bunch of members who wanted you to go away all voted on whether to evict you. I don't know if a meeting like that is "secret," really. I understand that you're pissed at them, and your position of homelessness sucks, but is bringing that feud onto this site what you should be spending your time on? Did the document you signed contain any admissions or assertions of fact that you were agreeing to which are contrary to what you've posted in this opinion piece? —EdwardNiemand 2010-01-21 08:31:27 The SCHA bylaws state that ALL members are allowed to attend ALL board meetings. Also that the board has to post the real agenda a few days before the meeting, not a fake agenda with false items to obscure the true agenda. The board treated the former housemates as valid members and tried to treat me as a non member. The statement I signed, is kinda like the 9/11 commission, it doesn't tell you much but it covers their asses. If I had been notified of the meeting I would have gathered support as well. As it happened, they never gave me a chance to be heard or defend myself. —PxlAted 2010-01-21 08:35:56 What does a fake agenda with false items look like? At any rate, the rant is in the first person, which doesn't let any other editors apply factual corrections without putting words in your mouth. —EdwardNiemand 2010-01-21 08:43:59 It looks like "house dynamics" when it was really "3 hour rant about pxl." I was told that night that they were going to meet about me by one board member, but I assumed it was the start of the grievance process, not the meeting to evict me. What makes it all the more frustrating is that we have such a good lease and grievance policy in place which I thought were my rights, so much for those! —PxlAted 2010-01-21 09:19:29 It's clear who wrote it and whose opinion it is. It provides another perspective, which others can judge for themselves. When we have pages concerning local politics, people take sides and describe them in the main text. I don't see how this is different. There is often a pro and con. If someone wants to respond to Pxl's allegations, they can. Yes, he mentions particular people, but it's not as though he is calling them derogatory names. Even restaurant reviews often mention particular people. I think it should stay. —CovertProfessor 2010-01-21 09:24:04 How does one respond to the allegation that the board members are "petty bourgeoisie," cp? —EdwardNiemand Roll your eyes, laugh, and/or cite it as an example about just how grounded his argument really is? I agree with CP. I don't think it should be removed. I think you're better off responding to the allegations (the ones that are real allegations, anyway) if you so choose. Simply sweeping the accusations under the rug isn't going to do you any good. If the issue becomes too big over the course of discussion, you could always just start a /Controversy page, and Pxl could just leave a summary of the accusations in the main text with a link. — TomGarberson Ok, perhaps that should be edited out. :-) —cp 2010-01-21 09:47:27 RE: the Class reference. For people who pay attention to Class issues, this is an important point, especially with an affordable housing provider. —PxlAted Pxl, you're assuming that everyone will know what that means. You're better off describing the behavior rather than slapping a label on it. —cp 2010-01-21 10:29:02 I'm confused about the first person narrative letter being included in the body of the article rather than the comments. It's a personal letter from someone, so I as an editor can't change it or modify it without putting words in his mouth. If I want to write stuff on just about any wiki pages, and "immortalize" it from being corrected or altered by other editors, can I just write it in a narrative form and label it as a letter from myself about the article's subject too? We should either shift the complaint to the comments section, or PxlAted should let us re-engineer it to have the encyclopedic voice of a wiki article, so that we can tweak it as we please. Otherwise, he just gets a private section of the article to himself that we are prevented from editing. —EdwardNiemand Encyclopedic? Please understand that we're closer to Ward's wiki than Wikipedia. We aren't trying to be an encyclopedia. —WilliamLewis If its in his voice, I can't edit it without putting words in his mouth. That's my complaint. If it's in an encyclopedic voice, and not in his voice, I can edit it without putting words in his mouth. If nobody sees the same problem with this that I do, then I will proceed to edit his letter to the world at large which he has inserted into the article and apply the corrections to it that I see fit. -EN It isn't uncommon to find open letters around the wiki. This one is a bit long, and like some such, they often get dropped to a sub page. You do understand that Wikipedia is an aberrant wiki, and that most wikis practice such things as the WikiNow rather than NPOV or encyclopedic voice. There's no rule on how to handle something like this — sometimes they are left alone, sometimes they are fenced out as a block that stands alone (via quotes or other layout tools), and sometimes they are absorbed. When the whole entry is first person it's a bit more sticky, because that really is a barrier to cooperative editing. This could go either way. Keep in mind that as an person involved in the actual subject, his letter is an actual primary representation of part of the subject of the entry, just like a photo of a park is an actual primary representation of the park, or the City Statutes on the wiki are actual representations of the subject and shouldn't be edited other than to correct or annotate them. As such, the letter itself may be something that is worth keeping as part of the history of the subject of the entry. Or it may be a discardable rant in this case. (And sometimes rants are worth keeping — because when the rants are from the subject of the entry, they may best represent the subject). My point is that there are cases in which an open letter — especially from a directly involved person — is part of the documentation of the subject rather than just a wiki edit. As to if this falls into that category... well, I haven't untangled this ball yet, so I honestly have zero opinion on the subject. -jw 2010-01-21 12:19:16 Why not just move it to the comments section? That's where feedback normally goes for any business, including for every apartment in the city. Other SCHA members might disagree about the details of what happened, and it's not the place of the wiki itself to provide judgments on internal conflicts. By leaving it in the "facts" section, Pxl's account is essentially presented as *fact* rather than a single point of view. I agree that editing it as is would be problematic, because it is clearly the opinion of Pxl, and it wouldn't be fair to edit Pxl's opinion. But moving it to comments solves that issue. —IDoNotExist Agreed. - EN 2010-01-21 12:21:15 I don't understand why this isn't in the comments section - isn't that the natural home for windy personal rants and recounting of personal histories about the article subject? —rfrazier Why? it makes more sense organizationally, and putting reviews and personal comments in the "comments" section appears to be the general pattern and prctice of this wiki. You can think of many pages on the wiki as divided into a "factual" or "informational" section, and an "opinion" or "discussion" section. The "factual" section describes the subject of the page, and it is generally what the wiki community agrees on. The "discussion" section is a collection of opinions and discussion by wiki readers about the subject of the page. The discussions generally have lots of personal opinions. Editors don't usually change those, because those are individual people's opinions, and we don't want to effectively put different words in someone else's mouth. In this case, Pxl's statement is a (rather long) opinion. As such, it isn't a factual description by the wiki community, but something that we can't really edit without changing Pxl's opinions. So it belongs in the discussion. —IDoNotExist Because it's a COMMENT. Do you seriously need some kind of justification for why a person's open letter commenting on the subject of an article should naturally go in a section for comments? Putting his assertions in the main article, invulnerable to our corrective edits, impute an undiserved sense of undisputed factuality. They need to go. - Niemand Why not have opinion in the entry? Because, given the structure of the wiki, it reads as fact. It also gives much greater weight to that opinion than to any comments in the comments section. It also removes the chronological context of that particular opinion from those of people who post in comments. —IDoNotExist So, stop editing using comments. Put your opinion up as a first class edit. What's wrong with that? If it is opinion, it shouldn't be presented as fact. Think of it as if it were a paper like you wrote in college. You have to make it very clear which parts are your work, and which parts are the works of others, through citation, quotation, indentation, etc. There's not one specific format for it, but it needs to be unambiguous. In the case of the wiki, the *context* of the wiki has a whole has factual info on the top and opinions on the bottom. Placing Pxl's content in the top section makes it appear to be a set of facts agreed upon by the wiki community rather than the opinions of a single person. —IDoNotExist That reasoning terrifies the pants off me. It disempowers individuals, creates ghettos of second class content, and sucks the vitality from entries. It turns a person's viewpoint into something to be pushed into a corner for "THE WIKI"'s "official" view. And that sucks for each and every individual of the community and diminishes them as human beings. If any second-class content tries to escape from the disempowerment ghetto for comments we have created, it will be shot. We have dogs. -Niemand. *I think this letter should be in the Comments section. I also find it hard to follow discussions of this sort when people don't sign their names to their part of the discussion; e.g., "Why not have opinion in the entry?" —DonShor 2010-01-21 13:00:02 iawte *sigh* Davis Wiki is not supposed to be divided into a factual and an opinion section. Yet, everyone expects this now. I think I'm going to go off and cry now. =( We can be so much more than a community-driven yelp clone. Please stop importing best practices from them and Wikipedia and let us be our own, awesome, multiple point of view thing. 2010-01-21 13:18:00 Ok, so if we have individual opinions mixed in with facts, how do I tell what is true (or at least agreed upon), and what is opinion? What should I give heavy weight to? What should I ignore? How do I make an informed decision? —IDoNotExist 2010-01-21 13:39:45 Opinion should be labeled. In this case, it is. In this case, it's also a major portion of the entry, with which some people clearly disagree. My thought is that it belong somewhere other than the main entry, not because it's opinion, but because by the time there are a couple of responses to it, it's going to crowd out everything else on the page. IMO the controversy should be freely visible to the public, if the editors so choose, but it shouldn't become the defining feature of the SCHA page. Which is why I think it should be at most a short entry in the main body, with the bulk of discussion on it elsewhere—the Talk page, a Controversy page, or the comments. —TomGarberson Kind of like what happened to Cal.NET, with a comment ("An angry and extensive review of that service and mostly of the company circa 2003/2004 can be read here.") and the big rant moved to [[Cal.NET/Business and MDL Review 2004"]? Yup, that's what I meant by "dropped to a sub page". In a couple cases, it's happened with notable back and forth long rants. This one is a bit different, as s/he's a member, so it's somewhere between a customer and the editor emails in the Cal Aggie controversy entry (which is, of course, another example of a sub page). This is all still a bit general "ways it's been done" on my part, and I might change my mind when/if I read the thing... Heh. (Incidentally, dropping to a sub page also diminishes the impact of the individual's statement, so while it is current and relevant, it may best be placed on the main entry). -jw 2010-01-21 15:58:29 I really appreciate the helpful edits everyone has been making. I think down the road moving the letter to a subpage and leaving a well written and easily editable controversy section on the main page would be best for SCHA longterm, to allow for continued whistle blowing. Part of my frustration with the whole eviction is that I was never given a chance to be heard, so I would appreciate keeping it in the foreground for a while, at least until Max and Ben step down, the board responds or the letter is no longer current. —PxlAted Kind of like construction photos, appropriate while things are ongoing, moved off to a construction page when it's done. -jw 2010-03-01 16:06:05 Discussion or opinions on entry content vs comments and talk? Let's get fair and open dialog about the changes. —Carl Opinions are often part of an entry comment — this is not an NPOV wiki. In my opinion, this is an important issue and should not be banished to the comments. If there is another perspective to be heard, then add it to the page. —CovertProfessor By the way, keep in mind that Talk pages are temporary spaces to sort out editing issues. This content will all be deleted as the editing side of things finishes. There is, however, a big difference between adding opinion to an entry about a subject and overwhelming a subject with a semi-related subject. That's why I suggested that it be moved to a sub-entry and then a summary of the controversy be placed in the main entry. As it turned out, the letter was moved to the Davis Voice instead. That works as well. Why would you want the summary as it stands moved off the entry at this point? It seems to document an incident in the SCHA history, which is relevant to an entry about the SCHA. —jw

engine and motorcycle of this quality and displacement and slip it into such a slim price? Once you ride it though, all those paper issues and imagined controversies fade from your consciousness. This motorcycle looks right, feels right, sounds right, and rides even better. That big motor -- the biggest engine currently built by a motorcycle manufacturer -- exceeded our expectations. And not just for power, but for smoothness, appearance and accessibility as well. Details of its construction appear in the accompanying sidebar, so we'll focus here on how Yamaha's new monster-twin performs. The most remarkable character of this 1602cc V-twin is its massive low-rpm torque. It will literally idle in fifth gear on a level road, with virtually none of what is termed "chain snatch" on a bike with a chain. The massive flywheel effectively smoothes out the power pulses, and though it gets slightly jerky when you open the throttle at that speed, it accelerates willingly, smoothing out completely in just a few hundred rpm. The power simply continues to flow until you hit the rev-limiter at 4200 rpm, and it never gets buzzy along the way. At 60 mph, it is just reaching its 2250-rpm torque peak, where Yamaha claims a massive 99 foot-pounds on tap. That all translates into effortless departures from a stop, even if you pull away in second gear. Sometimes, while carrying a passenger we did so deliberately, to smooth the departures from stops, even if you pull away in second gear. Sometimes, while carrying a passenger we did so deliberately, to smooth the departure and eliminate one shift. If you pull off in first, you may want to shift to second as soon as the clutch is out. And the first-to-second gear change presents the largest ratio gap in the wide-ratio five-speed. Short-shifting is the rule with this bike, and despite the ultra-overdrive top gear, there is good power to pass traffic with just a twist of the wrist. In our top-gear acceleration tests, it out-performed most big twins, and those that do outrun it (the new Harley, the twin-carb Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 and Suzuki's 1400 Intruder) have a gearing advantage. It also left behind Yamaha's own Royal Star. Probably because of its relaxed, low-rpm gait, the engine didn't seem to be pulling that hard, and we would have guessed it was slower. Tall gearing translates into a relaxed, solid drumbeat from the engine on the highway, and also permits great fuel mileage. We approached 50 mpg during immoderate highway use and averaged 43 mpg overall. Throttle response was smooth and clean, with no abruptness or flat spots. Although it required choke to start in the morning, the big V-twin warmed soon after. Looking at the specifications won't prepare you for the uncanny smoothness of the engine. Unless they have counterbalancers or offset crankpins, twins configured with that 45- to 50-degree V-angle are supposed to vibrate quite a bit. And bigger V-twins should do so with proportionately greater magnitude. But though the Road Star won't fool you into thinking it has an electric engine, its vibration is never intrusive or tiring. Until we were told otherwise, we believed it did use a counterbalancer or at least rubber mounts to isolate the engine. As it turns out, it has neither. Since it is a single-crankpin design, the exhaust beat is classic big twin. And, at least in its American version, there is enough weight to the stock bike's exhaust note to let you know it's armed with some real displacement. Bikes with heavy flywheels tend to lurch away from a stop unless they have controllable, progressive clutches. Fortunately, the Road Star's clutch is flawless. And because it is cable-operated, you can adjust it to fit your hand. We also give top marks to the five-speed transmission, which has a heel-toe shift lever. Shifts are smooth, positive, light and quiet. Despite the extra transmission shaft, there is little lash (i.e., play in the drive line) in the Road Star. The Kevlar-reinforced, final-drive belt is quiet and clean, and requires little attention. The riding position suited most riders well, though as rider height climbed past six feet, the complaints about the shape of the bucket increased. All riders wished for slightly more room rearward, and a turn-up at the back of the saddle that more closely matched the curves of their backsides. (Taller riders asked for it most loudly.) The rider portion of the two-piece saddle is otherwise well-done with good padding and width. Judging from its appearance and the initial feel, we expected it to get old quickly. But it was a few hours before we began to squirm. Smaller passengers who were narrow in the beam adjusted well to the somewhat narrow passenger pad, but it was too narrow for more amply configured back-seaters. Light passengers did say they got bounced around a bit. We point the blame for that at a slight shortage of rebound damping in the rear shock. Both ends are on the firm end of the spectrum, but only big, sharp bumps came through harshly enough to affect the rider. All riders praised the relationship of seat to the floorboards and handlebar. At 33 inches from tip to tip, the handlebar was wide enough for confident control in town, but not so wide as to make you a sail in the highway. Moderate rise and pullback means most riders had to barely lean forward to reach it comfortably. The wind's blast wasn't broken by the headlight as much as some other bikes, but it wasn't oppressive either. We have two schools of thought around here about what braking characteristics are desirable. One likes brakes that have a strong initial bite, offering the quickest response in a panic stop. The other prefers brakes that take fairly heavy pressure before they lock up. The latter school was more comfortable with the dual-disc front brake on the Road Star. The dual-rotor front brake serves up plenty of power, but a solid squeeze is needed to get it all. Fade was not a problem. The rear brake offers the best pedal location of any of Yamaha's floorboard-equipped cruisers to date. Power and control are also good. Low-speed handling is very controllable and predictable. The handlebar isn't too wide, or pulled back so far that it crowds you or makes you stretch during full-lock turns. The 27.9-inch-tall saddle provides a comfortable reach to the road, and the floorboards are out of your way when your feet are down. The bike carries its weight low enough to feel quite manageable when you are pushing it around at a stop. And that light, low-effort feel remains when you get moving. Cornering is limited by clearance, which feels comparable with the Royal Star; which is to say, on the low end of the scale. The fold-up floorboards drag first and loudly, giving plenty of warning that you are reaching the limit. The biggest danger is some riders will be alarmed, straighten up and run off the road. In fact, the bike is in control and has some available lean-angle in reserve before anything solid touches down. Despite rubber mounts, the bar feels well-connected to the steering. Steering is neutral at high and low speeds, with no tendency to tip into a corner and little propensity to straighten up if you brake in a corner. In faster corners, the rear end pumps a bit if you make steering inputs midcorner, or hit a bump -- especially with a passenger. Stability is fair. If we gave the bar a big shake when riding down the road, the Road Star would oscillate about a cycle longer than we would normally expect, though it didn't seem prone to initiate a wobble on its own. Some of the things that unsettle other bikes (parallel grooves, a series of bumps, etc.) didn't wiggle the Road Star. The bike is finished in the general manner of the Royal Stars, which is to say, first class. In fact, the flangeless design of the tank actually raises the standards a bit. Many components -- such as the taillight and brushed-finish, stainless steel fork covers -- appear to have been lifted directly from the Royal models. The deep fenders and tank shape bear a clear family resemblance, but pieces like the large headlight bezel give it its own character. The single rear shock is tucked out of sight and controls the hardtail-look swingarm via a linkage. Polished covers for the brake rotor hubs are a welcome touch. A few items drew criticism. The cover over the final drive pulley was termed "tacky," "weird," "out of place," or just plain "kinda ugly." The front of the engine is a bit cluttered by dual horns (though their attention-getting volume does make them welcome), rear-brake master cylinder, and spin-on oil filter. Some of the engine's external plumbing begs for stainless steel replacements. Doubtlessly there will be aftermarket remedies for many of these complaints. At the bike's introduction, Yamaha showed heavily customized bikes. It says it has 160 accessory items already available, including chrome, saddles, saddlebags and windshields. We also saw cast wheels, headlights, pipes and other pieces from aftermarket vendors. Most of these accessories should be available now. The bike hit dealers in December, with the Silverado version a few weeks behind. Customizing should be easy; the bike was built with modification in mind. You won't encounter hidden roadblocks to changes every time you take off a cover or remove a component. The design is exceptionally straightforward. We found a raft of well-thought-out details. Placing the dipstick/oil-filler under the locking saddle might foil someone bent on sabotage. (The editor was once called to testify in a case where a neighbor had apparently put grass clippings in a motorcycle's oil filler.) The fork, ignition and saddle unlock not only with the same key, but the same lock. Located conveniently in front of the tank-top speedometer, the ignition lock is positioned to operate as a fork lock, and also operates the seat lock via a cable. Lugs on the bottom of the triple clamp allow use of a padlock for additional security. The technology Yamaha used for the instruments makes the entire gauge and light-cluster less than a half-inch-deep, reducing the amount of fuel space needed to accommodate it. The needles for both analog instruments, the speedometer, and fuel gauge operate by step motors; they calibrate themselves when the ignition is turned on by swinging to full-scale readings before returning to zero and the current fuel level. The LCD display in the speedo face has a two-line display. The top line is a clock, and you can toggle between the odometer and two tripmeters on the second line. Mounted in a pretty chrome setting and nicely backlit with large markings, the instruments' only drawback is their position, which is well below your line of sight. Priced at $10,499 for the base model and $11,999 for the Silverado model, the Road Star's price suggests it is a second-tier machine compared with the Royal Star. We don't know about long-term reliability yet (we are working on it), and the Road Star only has a one-year warranty (rather than the Royal Star's five years, plus roadside assistance), but in all other standards of measurement the Road Star is The Star among Yamaha's cruiser line. More than that, the Road Star raises the bar for everyone, and not just in displacement. For our first impressions of the 2004 Yamaha Road Star 1700, see the report on our first ride. The Road Star was also included in our 2002 Big Twin Comparison. ABOUT THAT ENGINE... After sitting through many presentations for new models, you get a feel for what a difficult conceptual leap the classic American cruiser engine must be for Japanese engineers. For those raised on innovation, technical excellence, reducing mass and improving performance, wrapping your thoughts around the comparatively low-tech or even retro-tech requirements of an ideal cruiser motor must be demanding. And that makes Yamaha's new 1600cc V-twin that much more remarkable because -- unless it reveals some reliability flaw -- it is, in our opinion, the standard against which all other big V-twins will be measured. The 1602cc engine is more than just the biggest OE engine on the market. It is straightforward like an American design, but it also enjoys traditional Japanese engineering and attention to detail. The prominent finning is genuine and necessary, since the engine really is air-cooled. There are no extra covers to accentuate the size of part of the engine. The big triangular airbox really is an airbox, and the entire airbox is there. About the only unconventional piece is the dipstick tube, which projects up from the sump above the transmission's output shaft. The side panels hide it. To reach it, simply pop off the saddle. It's been a long time since a new Japanese engine came with pushrods. How did Yamaha arrive at such a low-tech system of valve actuation? Styling, we were told. Those fat chrome pushrod-housing tubes highlight the 48-degree V-angle. Both pushrods for each cylinder live inside the single tube. They rest on hydraulic adjusters. At its top, each pushrod operates a rocker on the end of a shaft. The other end of the shaft has two integral rockers to depress the two intake or exhaust valves for that cylinder. One of each pair of rockers has a threaded adjuster. That permits adjustment for any difference in manufacturing tolerances or wear. An automatic decompression system lifts one exhaust valve to make things easy on the starter motor. The combustion chamber has a pentroof configuration with two spark plugs. The single 40mm carb has a throttle-position sensor and accelerator pump. One of the attractions of pushrods is that they keep the engine short from top to bottom. Indeed, Yamaha claims that despite its ultralong 113mm stroke, the 1602cc engine, at 21.1 inches tall, is the shortest big twin available. One sign of its Asian roots is the 97.76-cubic-inch displacement, which stops just 37cc shy of 100 cubic inches. An extra 2mm added to the 95mm bore would have given Yamaha's copywriters one more thing to brag about, but the displacement target was seen in metric terms rather than American. Since the cylinders feature low-friction, high-heat-transfer, ceramic-composite liners over an aluminum base, overboring won't be easy. Some will see the 48-degree V-angle as an effort to mimic Harley. But this engine is much smoother than any 45-degree Harley twin, so you can't argue with the design decisions. In fact, the most amazing thing about this engine is how smooth the bike is without counterbalancers or rubber engine mounts. No doubt the tremendous mass of the crankshaft (a hefty 45 pounds) helps smooth it out, and the engine is a long way from the handlebar. Yamaha feels confident enough with the deep head fins and ceramic-lined cylinder that the bike has no oil cooler cluttering up the engine bay. The spin-on filter at the front of the engine is a bit obtrusive, but it's also easy to reach. Although the engine is short from top to bottom, it's extra long front to rear, partly due to the fact that the transmission has an additional shaft behind the two standard transmission shafts. Power leaves the left end of the crankshaft through a geared primary and wet clutch. It exits the five-speed transmission on the right side, where a silent chain and another reduction carries it back to that third shaft which runs across to the drive pulley for the belt final-drive. This final shaft not only puts the belt on the left side, it also moves its drive pulley rearward near the swingarm pivot. As a result, there is little change in belt tension as the swingarm pivots up and down. Termed a semi-dry sump design, the lubrication system carries the majority of its oil in the crankcase, but there is an additional sump occupying the case above the final output shaft. This is where oil is added and its level is checked. Yamaha has demonstrated its vision of what a high-end cruiser can be with the quality and finish of the Royal Star. With its new V-twin it combines that vision with an engine that epitomizes what many people feel a cruising motor should be -- in style and performance. Art Friedman SPECIFICATIONS Suggested base price: $10,499 Standard colors: Black, blue/white, red/ivory Extra cost colors: NA Standard warranty: 12 mo., unlimited miles ENGINE & DRIVETRAIN Type: Air-cooled, 48-degree tandem V-twin Valve arrangement: OHV, 2 intake, 2 exhaust valves; operated by pushrods, hydraulic adjusters, threaded adjusters Displacement, bore x stroke: 1602cc, 95 x 113mm Compression ratio: 8.3:1 Carburetion: 1, 40mm Mikuni Lubrication: Semi-dry sump Minimum fuel grade: 87 octane Transmission: Wet, multiplate clutch; 5 speeds Final drive: Belt CHASSIS Wheelbase: 66.3 in. Overall length: 98.4 in. Wet weight: 740 lb, 53% rear wheel Wheels: Wire-spoked, 16 x 3.0 in. front, 16 x 3.5 in. rear Front tire: 130/90-16 Dunlop D404F Rear tire: 150/80B-16 Dunlop D404 Front brake: 2, single-action, dual-piston calipers, 11.7-in. discs Rear brake: Double-action, two-piston caliper, 12.6-in. disc Front suspension: 43mm stanchions, 5.5 in. travel Rear suspension: 1 damper, 4.33 in. travel Fuel capacity: 5.3 gal Seat height: 27.9 in. Handlebar width: 33.0 in. ELECTRICAL & INSTRUMENTATION Battery: 12v, 18 AH Forward lighting: 7.5-inch, 55/60-watt headlight, position lights Taillight: 1 bulb Instruments: Speedometer, fuel gauge, LCD clock and odometer/dual tripmeters; warning lights for engine monitor, fuel level, high beam, neutral and turn signals PERFORMANCE Fuel mileage: 38 to 49 mpg, 43.1 mpg average Average range: 228 miles RPM at 60 mph, top-gear: 2270 200 yard, top-gear acceleration from 50 mph, terminal speed: 73.0 mph Quarter-mile acceleration: 14.25 sec., 92.1 mph RIDING POSITIONS "Pushrods, huh? Why would Yamaha do a thing like that?" But once I thumbed the starter button and got the bike on the road, and my body was resonating to the pulse of a 1600cc V-twin, Yamaha's choice seemed just about perfect. All my questions have been replaced with a contented smile. 4 stars Evans Brasfield Visit our former staffer's website at It's certainly not another sheep in wolf's clothing -- the Road Star has a bite that's as good as its bark. If you're looking for more power and performance from a high-end Yamaha, this is where you get off. But if you're enamored by the accouterments which endow every angle of the lovely Royal Star, the Road Star might leave you cold. I'd been riding our Royal Star for several weeks when I swapped it for the Road Star. In comparison, the aesthetics seemed undercooked, and the fit-and-finish was a bit cheesy (like the logo on the tank). I missed the gleaming doo-dads and throaty exhaust on the Royal Star. But one flick of the throttle sets things straight. The Road Star has a feel of substance that's deeper than good looks. Jamie Elvidge For more on gleaming doo-dads, e-mail Elvidge at: [email protected]. You knew Yamaha could do it. The Royal Star covered all the bases except for the engine. With the Road Star engine, Yamaha has belted the ball out of the park, and the rest of the bike plays in the same league. 4.5 stars Art Friedman Friedman covers all the bases with email addresses at [email protected] and [email protected]. For additional tests of current and previous-year motorcycles, see the Road Tests section of you are a Road Star owner, you may be interested in the Star Touring and Riding (STAR) Association, the largest Yamaha cruiser owners' club.

On the morning of Sept. 11, I leave a message on the answering machine of Randy Newman's manager. "Is that second interview we scheduled still on?" Nobody calls back. A thin veil of clouds yawns open to lovely weather, a sparkling blue-and-white mirror image of New York City, minus the smolder of dead planes and wounded buildings that plays in two- or three-minute intervals on CNN. My younger sister, the lawyer, shows up at the door; she can't go to work because she works downtown and the courts and everything else are closed, and she's already packed her infant son off to daycare. Her nerves are too jangled to sit at home and do nothing. I fix her some grits for breakfast, and together we watch more CNN.Hearing nothing from the Newman camp, I resolve to keep the appointment for professionalism's sake. My sister in the front seat, I drive to Newman's home in the Palisades on highways and roads made clear and more hospitable by disaster, fear and orders to stay home. Overhead the sky is brilliant and boundlessly, stupidly optimistic. It strikes me that the morning so far, with its easy juxtapositions of tragedy and homily, of everything going to hell on television and everything coming up roses where I live, would be perfect fodder for a Newman song.Look at those mountains, Look at those trees, Look at that bum over there, Man, he's down on his knees . . .Newman shouts "Hello!" in a startled voice from upstairs before appearing in the foyer in rumpled shirt and shorts. His television in the spacious dining room is tuned to CNN. He looks bewildered, partly by the unfolding news of the world and partly because almost too big to look at," he says of the hijackings. "Then somebody told me that a guy in the plane that crashed near Pittsburgh went to the bathroom and called 911 and said the plane was being hijacked." He shakes his head. "When you hear an individual story -- a guy in the men's room, and then the plane crashed -- it makes it rougher somehow. You hear there's a guy, and it becomes real to you. That he had the bravery to say that. It makes it worse."For nearly 35 years, Randy Newman has been making records, and 2001 is like any other year. He has no comeback album or down-and-out-in-the-industry stories, thanks to a second career as a successful film composer, and thanks to a pop career that, admired as it was, never really ascended in the first place -- to be down and out you must at some point have been high and in, and he never was, quite. So the only reason to write about Randy Newman is that he's still Randy Newman, unrealized pop star (the film scoring he calls well-paying grunt work, something to essentially support his studio habit). At 57 he is perhaps more amiable than in the past, but no less a malcontent. Artistically, he's as much an enigma as he was when he officially arrived on the music scene in the early '70s with albums like Good Old Boys and Sail Away. At a time when pop music was splitting its sensibilities in two, echoing the raw anger of the '60s or offering soothing philosophical counterpoints to it -- the Eagles, Carole King, James Taylor -- Newman was doing neither. He was following some weird interior compass that often led him back, back to slave times or Reconstruction or an obscure historical event, or to various observations tied to no history at all, all of which violated pop music's'd call hot. Even all the attention generated by the only two Top 40 singles of his career, "Short People" and "I Love L.A.," focused more on the songs themselves and their questionable sentiments than on the man who thought them up.It's hard to tell if Newman's okay with this -- the first time we talked, I detected in him, at points, a lingering hope that one day he'll. I'm very interested in the country, though I don't necessarily feel a part of it."But Newman's music took alienation to new human depths; the personas in songs like "Half a Man" and "It's Money That I Love" may not have been his, but the feelings were. He wound up striving for a kind of emotional equity that pop music, skewed as it has always been toward love and triumph, never cultivated; in Newman's don't don't you stick your other finger up your ass and heal yourself?'" He howls at the memory.Dr. Newman was something of a departure from family tradition, which was -- surprise -- scoring films. Randy's uncle Alfred was pretty much the gold standard for movie music during Hollywood's heyday; he composed for such classics as All About Eve, Wuthering Heights, The Grapes of Wrath, How Green Was My Valley -- even the trumpet-driven fanfare that accompanies every screen appearance of the 20th Century Fox logo and has become the shorthand theme song of Hollywood itself. Alfred racked up a total of 45 Academy Award nominations and won nine of them. Another one of Randy's he's evolved into a respected film composer in his own right, notably for Disney/P can't write shit-piss-fuck-fart-damn for Disney." And what he does write, he believes, often never breaks an audience's consciousness -- not even the most evocative and influential of his scores, like Avalon, The Natural and his first major assignment, Milos Forman's Ragtime, a film that was tailor-made for Newman's fascination with the dark energy of Americana."That big pile of movie music," he says, gesturing to carelessly stacked sheafs on top of the Steinway, "like some of it you don't can't help it. I can't. "I'm really hard on it," he says of his film music. "I mean, I've written in 4/4 my whole life" -- he bangs out a sample bar -- "but in a movie you can't do that. It's open, but you gotta hit things in a picture, in animated pictures especially." To demonstrate, he plays fitfully, impressionistically, following some imagined action. "What you do is subordinate -- it's meant to help the picture. I'll have something I like, but I'll have to truncate it because the picture dictates it."How does he feel about that mode of working? He sighs and crosses his arms. "There's a song I remember by James Taylor, called 'Bartender's Blues,'" he says, and begins singing in that familiar mocking/mournful voice: "'I need four walls around me to hold me tight, to keep me from drifting away . . .' And I do. I need that discipline from without, and that's the strictest kind, having to write for a picture on deadline." He shrugs. "But I'd write if I didn't have it."Newman has been nominated for an Oscar 14 times, meaning he's I've done enough scoring now where that would have no effect. There's always a reason a score wins -- it's a movie they love, or one that wasn't very popular but was a serious effort, like Il Postino. I mean, I do comedies. Of the 14 films I've been nominated for, I'd say I had a real chance of winning maybe only three times."That doesn't seem to bother Newman at all. Unlike his failure to become a true pop star, not winning an Oscar seems to bolster the peculiar confidence he's always drawn from being an outsider: He might forever yearn for acceptance, but much of his identity rides on not getting it. "The people who really know a lot about film music don't run the Academy," he explains. "There are only a couple of hundred people in the world who really know a good score from a bad one. It's too arcane. It's like cinematography -- I get to vote for that, and costume design. That's ridiculous, I mean, look at me. What do I really know about costume design?" He chuckles. A long blue thread that's been hanging unnoticed from his sleeve the entire conversation quivers in assent.Newman is not nearly as ambivalent about his pop canon as he is about his film one. Musically speaking, he's proudest of his studio albums, and his only regret is that he hasn't made more of them (he's released 11 over his career, versus 13 film scores in the last 20 years). Yet when asked about the larger meaning of music to him, or to anybody else, he admits an utter lack of faith. "I don't believe music can change anything," he says decisively. "Except fashion. And maybe the way people speak. What Madonna's wearing is a hell of a lot more interesting than anything she says." He doesn't have much good to say about current Top 40. "All harmonic interest has gone out of pop," he declares, "though I don't listen to much of anyone for edification." With typical equanimity he doesn't believe it's doesn't think people are listening much to lyrics -- not that they ever really did. "Music's a strange medium for meaning," he muses. "Radio isn't it. There aren't a lot of people who'll listen without eating potato chips. And with my music, to like it, you have to listen to it. It's not something you put on as background music at a party." He grins. "You might if you were a snob of some kind."This has always been true of Newman's music, which leads to a standard question of how it has aged. The answer isn't standard: It hasn't. Randy Newman is exploring the same big-picture themes not just of yesteryear, but of the ages -- the various meanings of companionship, abandonment, greed, human bondage, imperialism, patriotism. In cosmic time, barely a minute of Randy Newman has passed; we're still waiting for him to hit a stride or get to a point. This is distinctly different from the career trajectory of most graying rockers: Man plays guitar and rails at the world, gets famous, gets drunk/drugged out, gets older and/or has kids, gets reflective and couldn't resist describing as Randy Newman finally letting his third-person guard down -- in other words, maturing. Newman actually agrees, to a point. "Bad Love was rock & roll, but it was talking about being older. It wasn't 18, or 21 or 27. It wasn't 35. That may be a bad thing. I don't know." He looks at me and gets inspired. "Writers are allowed to be 57 and do their best work. They're expected to get better or stay as good. I guarantee you that Philip Roth liked his last book. He's not going back to Portnoy's Complaint going, 'Ah, then I could write.' That's suicide. Music is different, I know. There's a lot of evidence that it's a young person's "It's he's didn't take the guy seriously," he says, referring to the song's protagonist. "He's weak, he's asking the woman to stand on a chair . . ." Newman goes to the keyboard again and sings in a register low enough to be a mumble: "'Baby, take off your coat . . .' It's really nothing, sort of sleazy. But Joe Cocker did it like this --" He sings the same line again in a much higher key, and it bursts forth, a revelation. "You put it in a higher register, and it changes the whole song. I could have sung it like that, I can sing it up there." He considers his own mild professional envy. "But I don't have the instinct," he finishes. "I meant it to be . . . that. I picked the wrong key. It's not a sexy song."Humane as his music is at its core, Newman himself has never been characterized as being even remotely warm and fuzzy. Profiles over the years are filled with adjectives such as acerbic, irreverent, intelligent, pointed, satirical, wry. Newman's closest friends admit he'sman's. Let's face it, you can't."That's. It's always from an adult point of view." Clearly, Newman's music represents him better than he represents himself. That'sille's oplin's librettist, given the music the tart words and tension it deserved, and he seems genuinely impressed by the thought.) Newman fit my adolescent sensibility of not fitting, but in a good, almost arrogant way -- his stuff wasn didn't; I ask Newman why, adding, as a kind of disclaimer, that I love the song "Rednecks" and the whole Good Old Boys album. I was especially moved by "Louisiana 1927," a portrait of the devastation wrought by the infamous flood of that year, though I've always known full well that the narrator is a cracker and wouldn't hesitate to shoot me on sight if he thought I was trespassing on his sorry, waterlogged property.Creating such odd, even alarming but resonant emotional tableaux is Newman's gift. "If I were Neil Young or Dylan or someone else, people might have noticed, but there was this enormous apathy," says Newman of the N word. "Mostly they didn't doesn't have any more moral superiority in the way it treats blacks. Things weren't great anywhere . . . but this is the really segregated town, L.A. More segregated than Atlanta, or San Francisco."Newman knows L.A. in a way celebrities who live here generally don't, and he appreciates it -- both the subtleties and the abominations -- in a way most us of here don't bother to. For Newman it's less a company town and more home, as well as a logical landscape for his creative and political idiosyncrasies: He talks fervently about the color-coded inequities of public schools ("It's really sad"), about the north Long Beach/Compton rivalry, about the shifting demographics in South Los Angeles ("Where did all the black people go?" he asks me at one point), about his affinity for the Harbor Freeway ("It's/One side for white and one side for colored/I remember trash cans floating down Canal Street/It rained every day one summer").In an interview last year, Newman said that, despite its obvious shortcomings, he liked the South, and Southerners, their traditions of civility, the South's -- particularly New Orleans' -- sense of being a world apart from modern America. "There's just a few things they're bad on, Jews and blacks and gun control," he said. "It's one of those ancient things, but they do go deeper with people than we do in the rest of the country. They always did. They just had it written down on walls: 'No Colored.' 'No Jews.' Boston didn't have it written down. L.A. didn't have to write it down."Part of the reason I identify so strongly with Newman is that he apparently finds it difficult, or untrustworthy, to be himself in his art. For him it's personal; for me it's else's'll like the characters any better, but Newman's job has always been to make things clearer, not more bearable."The third-person thing has always been my natural mode of expression, but it's never proved very popular," he muses. "I'm not the 'I' in my songs a lot of times, and if I were, I wouldn't be heroic. I think it's some kind of character flaw, not necessarily an admirable modesty at work. I think it's shyness, and it turned into a style." It's a style that allows him to speak passionately where his shyness would ordinarily prohibit it. "In my songs, characters and people always come first," he says. When they don't, they're not as good. "I don't want to preach, I want the person to make the best case he can make. Like in 'Rednecks,' the guy's making a case, a good case, and yet he's not -- " He stops abruptly short of judgment. "Would you want to be his neighbor?"Over the years, people have been tempted to say that Newman champions the underdog or the anti-hero, but like many readings of his music, that's often way too simple (the enduring controversy over "Short People," one of his least thematically complicated songs, makes the point). Newman scoffs at the popular notion of heroes, but admires heroism. He isn doesn't matter at all. I don't look for irony." Pause. "Now, I wouldn't want to be listening to it dying in a plane crash."What Newman actually likes most about pop music -- ABBA notwithstanding -- is its veneration of male cool, which officially started with Elvis and lives today in hip-hop. "That's certainly the hippest stuff going," he says of hip-hop, a bit admiringly. "It's all part of that. I remember coming out of Marlon Brando movies feeling like" -- he squares his shoulders, puts out his chest, grins ear to ear -- "You know what I mean? It's a big deal, that feeling. I don't know who's the Brando or the James Dean anymore, but that's the lure of the music. Feeling hip and tough."But you can't believe your own story," he adds. "That rock & roll life. You can't pretend you interesting stuff going on," he says a bit defensively. "Dr. Dre is making some very good tracks for Eminem. I mean, kids aren't looking to Neil Young anymore, or to me."He brightens, like he's just had a better idea. "I'll tell you a story. I don't know if it's true. I don't stand by it -- I'll deny it. A singer has just been on this awards show, and his manager comes backstage, a Jewish guy. This white guy -- we'll call him Andy -- is back there doing coke and drinking. He's had substance-abuse trouble or something. The manager says, 'Andy, you've worked so hard, why are you doing this?' The guy says, 'Leave me alone, you little Jew bastard, I'm just enjoying myself after I've had this big triumph.' They wander into a room where a bunch of black guys are hanging around. The manager says, 'Come on, Andy, let's go, let's go home and start over again.' Then the guy starts yelling real loud, 'You Jew prick, you bastard!' And some of the black guys start saying, 'Yeah, yeah,' getting into it a little. And the manager says, 'Okay, Andy, I'm going.' There's a crowd of black guys gathered around. Then when the manager gets by the last guy, Andy turns to him and said, 'My-y-y niggas.'"Newman cracks up. "I don't know, that's such a bad story. But it's a phenomenal one. They're like egging him on, Andy's high, feeling a part of it -- 'My niggas.'" He shakes his head in disbelief, or disapproval, or something else.Randy Newman's wit is formidable and obvious, but after spending time with him, I find myself more impressed with his heart, which is also formidable, though not what he's known for. Newman likes to keep even his most loyal public off-balance, guessing at who he is or what he might mean. But he also frets about being misunderstood. He's come to expect indignation over "Short People" and "Rednecks," but what's thrown him more recently are fans agreeing with the rednecks, singing the refrain proudly ("We're rednecks, rednecks/We don't know our asses from a hole in the ground") at concerts, or taking the simple uplift of "Follow the Flag" solemnly, at face value. Yet Newman will never blame his audience, to whom he's always accorded more integrity and insight than the characters in his songs. "It's difficult," he says, reiterating "Follow the Flag" on the piano and listening closely. "It's not meant to be patriotic, but it's a close call. It's obvious to me, but . . . maybe I didn't do it well enough."That kind of falling short seems to be the artist's greatest worry; his song "Maybe I'm didn't mean he didn't participate in the goings-on; he wanted to, and did. He still does. He may never be in charge, but he never stands so far away from the essence of things that he can't feel them. Feeling, he believes, is everything.I remark how I always thought his hit "I Love L.A.," despite its subversiveness and frank criticism of us, was also joyous and deeply felt. "Yeah, it's so chamber of commerce -- Imperial Highway! -- it's just funny," he exclaims. "There's some kind of ignorance L.A. has that I'm can't think of anything a hell of a lot better than that."

There are places in this country where it is apparently quite warm in January. These places are not where I live and train in conditions that sometimes shock people. When visitors fuss about our cold, I smile, but I don’t get their discomfort. I think our blood is different. As it turns out, I like running when it’s 25-40 degrees. And if you read my post about my last 22-miler, you’ll remember how well that went. My body was happy, strong. I averaged 8:44 and ran mile 21 in 7:52. As it turns out, my body is about as adaptable as a St. Bernard spending Christmas in Miami. All day Saturday, I looked at the blue sky, the sun, the palm trees, the cactuses, and the desert and marveled at the contrast to where I live. Where I live looks like this right now: That's my back door. What does one do in desert? One drinks water, right? Lots and lots of water. When you think desert, do you think “Better eat some pretzels?” Me, neither. A 50-degree temperature change from one 20-miler to the next makes a difference in what happens at the 20-mile mark. Things — spooky, foreign things — happened in my body, and I didn’t recognize their implications until it was too late and I was reduced to shuffling — damn that shuffling. There was no wall to break through. The only wall was behind me, and I was tied to it and forced to pull for 6 miles. So Kevin once shared a story with me about one runner's pithy retort to the typical race report rationalizations of why a race went sour. To those weather/nutrition/injury/illness/clothing problems, he simply quipped: “So you're faster than you really are?" I’m totally with that guy. You’re as fast as the day makes you, no excuses. You don’t get to say you’re faster than you perform because that’s not how it works. But I’m not as fast as I really am. I started the race with the 3:40 pace leader, John, who I’ll begrudgingly admit was from Minnesota—also not known for its 70-degree Januaries. I was glued to John. I obeyed John like he was the Boss. I ran in John’s shadow like his little sister. John 3:40, I loved you, man. John 3:40 got me to the half feeling solid, with something like 40 seconds in the bank. I was positive, optimistic, trying to decide if it would be inappropriate to outkick him at the finish line after he’d paced me the entire course. I was on track, step for step, positive but without hubris. At mile 14, John looked around at his flock of women under 35 and said, “I know what this is. These are the Babes Going to Boston. That’s who I’ve got. I’m gonna get as many babes to Boston as I can.” I smiled. John was taking me to Boston. John 3:40, I wanted to be your babe. Needless to say, John 3:40 probably leads the most coveted group of all the pacing teams: women under 35. We followed him like skanky girls waiting backstage for Steve Tyler. John 3:40, what I would give to be among your finish line skanks. Around mile 16, my left calf said, “WTF? Where’s wintah? I am your leg and Jesus, it’s hot today. How ‘bout some watah?” Oh no, I am so not pulling a Nitmos. I don't get cramps. Ever. My calves make it through just fine, always. With almost a minute in the bank, I reasoned, “I’ve been drinking at every stop because that’s what smart people do in the desert, but more water would be fine! They’ve got plenty! Cups and cups and cups of water. It cost me $110 to run this race and with that cotton t-shirt as disappointing as it was, I should get my money’s worth in water!” As we made our way through the teens, I drank the water. I poured the water over my head. And then I drank some more. Totally loving the water. And yet, my right calf joined the chorus. “We’re hot, woman!” They began to tighten up, apparently not very satisfied by the water. So they convinced my feet to grow. If you’ve ever been pregnant, you might have reached a point when all of a sudden, it occurs to you that your shoes are two sizes too small. “How did that happen?” you think. You don’t notice them swelling and then one day, you realize the fabric on your shoe is pushing on your toes from all sides and maybe your toes actually curl up because there is just no more room. That can also happen when you run a marathon. You can hit the nearest shoe store to size up when you’re pregnant, but Zappos don’t deliver to mile 18. By mile 19, it occurred to me that my toes could quite possibly pull an Alien and bust through my shoes. And I would have been totally cool with that. If I’d had a knife, I’d have cut the fabric right off the top of my shoe. At mile 20, both calves were so contracted and cramped, I felt like they were hiding from the race. “Maybe if we just get real, real tight and make two little balls, she won’t even know we’re here,” they said to each other. Yes, my body parts talk. My quads, hamstrings, and glutes were good to go, but everything below the knee was pissed. Shortly after mile 20, the switch flipped. I push through a lot of walls on a long run; there is never just one. Mile 20 wasn’t a wall. It was a power outage. For the first time, I was behind John 3:40 instead of at his elbow. And then he was gone. Everything screeched to a halt. I was still running, yet everyone but the walkers streamed around me like I was a tree planted in the middle of the road. By the time I realized that maybe I needed salt and not water, it was too late. I ate the salt packet that a medic along the course was holding out, but my calves and feet wanted a Supersize box of fries, not a dash to flavor my Roctane. I hadn't had any Cytomax because that stuff upsets my stomach and I always figure the Gu covers the electrolytes. Just an amateur, I guess. The 3:45 guy passed me. My brain screamed bloody murder. Enough anger to push through any wall, but my power was out. I refused to walk because I knew the second I stopped to walk, my calves would call it a day and I’d never resume a running pace, no matter how slow. I didn’t even walk through the water stops. The 3:50 guy passed me, his flag held more like a relay baton because he’d lost his entire entourage. Christ. I can’t even run it in with the poor 3:50 bachelor. Instead of writing eulogies for my family and friends, I started to write my own. Loving mother. Foolish runner who wanted more than anything to transcend mediocrity through marathons. Died on a long stretch of road in Phoenix. Had potential, rarely did much with it. Made a good quiche. Miles 23 through the finish are a blur, sadly not because I was picking up the pace. Two Springsteen songs came on in a row, as if my iPod sensed my grief and wanted to make a last ditch effort with “Cadillac Ranch” to give me some pep. I sang along. Open up your engine, let it roar. Tearing up the highway like a big old dinosaur. Not today. I just kept going, one orange cone after another. After “Cadillac Ranch” came “The Rising.” I didn’t sing. Can’t see nothin in front of me Can’t see nothin coming up behind I make my way through this darkness I can’t feel nothing but this chain that binds me At several points, I wished I could know my exact mileage. About 15 minutes later I remembered I had a Garmin and could find out whenever I wanted. I guess the brain needs salt, too. Lost track of how far I've gone How far I’ve gone, how high I’ve climbed On my back's a sixty pound stone On my shoulder a half mile of line At mile 26, a guy in the crowd looked at me and yelled, “Four minutes to four hours!” And that’s when I found my salt. Salty tears streaming down my face, making salty rivers in the salty crust on my face. I wouldn’t even get a five-minute PR. 3:57:54 All those treadmill speed workouts. Two long runs a week. Seven 20-milers. Most people agree that the Boston Marathon is around 10 minutes slower than a flat course. I cut four lousy minutes with more training than I ever would have thought possible. I crossed the line without any pride whatsoever. I couldn’t care less about my finish line photo. I saw the long queue of runners waiting to have their picture taken with their medals on and walked right by without thinking for a second that I wanted to join them. A medic saw me looking disoriented and took me to the medical tent. She asked how often I drank water during the race. “Every stop from mile 2.” Her eyes got wide, and she asked if I took any salt. I couldn’t remember when, but told her it was somewhere in the early 20s. “Too much water. Not enough salt. And your body isn’t used to the heat.” I stumbled around for a little while, looking for Jessica*, who had finished well ahead of me. I had no clue how I’d find her family in the sea of people with my brain functioning on reserve battery power. I was elated when I spotted her gorgeous little red-headed boys sitting in the grass. And that’s kind of where the race ends. I took good care of my salt deficit with some margarita love that night, but there’s no uplifting resolve at the end of this one. I entered the training wanting to see how fast I could get if I ramped up the preparation tenfold. I expected I might get close to 3:40, very confident I’d beat 3:45. Today, of course, is supposed to be about hope and humility. And I’m not self-important enough to wallow over my silly race results while we're in the middle of history. So I’m working on the hope. But deep down in my greedy, vain little dark place, I’m tired of having to be self-deprecating. Just once, I want to be cocky and plaster that BAA unicorn on my blog. If you've made it through this race report, you already have more endurance than I do. I just wanted to add a major thanks to all of you, particularly my pacers Kevin, Jill, Linn, Anne, Judith, Johna, and Brian. And my commenters also get special thanks for constant encouragement that must get tedious to type all the time. I know I'm a Murphy's Law marathoner and that I kind of force to you tell me to keep my chin up. And thanks for the memories, Nate. It was actually kind of fun to pretend I could be a good marathoner and train out of my league for six months. I got home to my 26.2 Marathon Stories book from Marcy (thanks, M!) and feel the need to both pay it forward and reward anyone who is still reading this post. I also want to end this whine-fest on a more hopeful note. So if you're interested in my copy of Bart Yasso's new book, My Life On the Run, leave a comment with your suggestion for a fall marathon, and I'll put you in a drawing for it. I'll mail it to the lucky winner whose name I draw on Friday. It's a good, fun read. *We had a blast the entire time we spent together this weekend, but we didn’t end up running the race together, which is good because it would have been the one negative experience we shared during my stay. 64 comments: I'm new to your blog but love every word. I live in Phoenix and ran the 1/2 marathon (won't tell you my time because I'm a newbie runner coming off a stress fracture in my right heel and I only dream of Boston - ha ha ha), but anyway I digress....I hear San Antonio is a great place to run and they have an October Rock and Roll. I also understand Tucson has a nice marathon in December, if you decide to try the desert again. hi. I Loved your race report! thanks for that...I live in New Zealand, I have not done a full marathon yet, the longest a 33k mountain run. My goal for this year is to do a full marathon..and, no matter how you look upon this marathon you have done...you have inspired me. thankyou!!! How sad. I felt tears well up a few times. Take the good (you'll find it soon) from it. Don't give up. Your time was still great! My heart broke reading this. I know how hard you've worked and how high your expectations were. What you need now, my friend, is some chocolate. Some day you'll come back to our state and rock that marathon. I know you will. I'm doing the twin cities in October. It's supposed to be beautiful. I did see Bart Yasso at the expo. He signed my race bib, but we didn't have much to talk about, since I haven't read his book. Kristina, I hope it gives you hope and doesn't discourage you that you would have come darn close if not for the heat and the traitorous body parts below the knee. My PR is in Chicago, on a cold day, of course, and I am thinking of doing it again in October. If I do under 4 in Boston, I am going for a BQ also (I need a 3:35). So it would be neat if we were both going for it at the same time. It looks like we would both qualify for a preferred start. We made a promise we swore we'd always remember No retreat no surrender You trained more than you ever thought possible - that is a fantastic. In terms of fall marathons, I am running Chicago in October. Huge and flat. I ran Air Force last year in Dayton Ohio - nice support, but few spectators. I have always wanted to run Marine Corps - I think that will be the plan for next year. As a cold weather runner, I empathize with your run in the heat. Come to Minneapolis and run Twin Cities in October. It is a beautiful course and has great crowds. It is sure to be cooler! All of your trainig and hard work is not lost. Use that to build on. My favorite running quote, "Fall down seven times, get up eight times." You can still make your dreams come true (it's okay to pout for a little while longer). :) Sorry. :( I absolutely feel your pain. Guess how you can fix this, and end this BQ longing once and for all? Hudson Mohawk River Marathon - Albany, NY in mid-October. Flat course, not too hot, record number of Boston qualifiers each and every year. It's where I got lucky after my EIGHTH attempt at BQ-ing. Listen to Neal and The Boss: "No retreat, no surrender." I would recommend Honolulu in December, but it's true about your blood being different... And mai tais don't have salt. :( Tucson would likely be cooler than Phx in December, and it's 16 miles of downhill before 10 miles of flat = fast course! I know that feeling of finishing and not giving a sh*t. Sucks. Regardless, you're a stronger runner now for all the training, and smarter now too now that you have the dirt on electrolyte imbalances... I did this at my first Kona. No idea about salt and slurring my words and falling down dizzy after the finish. I'm sorry, I should have mentioned the salt tabs. One of us commenters should have warned you! Fall marathon idea: Maui in Sept. I know, I suggest far away ones, but we could run like mothers there, it's point to point and fast, and pretty. And I want your Bart book. Maui Marathon (Sept 20) - just because, uhm, it's Maui! Steamtown Marathon (Oct 11) - just because, uhm, it's Scranton (and I lurve the Office), lol Marine Corps is always popular. Chicago's a good choice too. F#$k it, Dude. You're the farthest thing from mediocre but I know EXACTLY how you feel. Wallow in it for now...it'll drive you to your BQ later. For now, I'll use your post to fuel my own painful Lactate Tolerence sets tonight... (((HUGS))) I can only imagine how you feel. I'm happy that you still have your sense of humor though :-) And you're still my running idol. When I grow up (actually *if*) I want to run supa fast like you :-) And . .I'm with the loose moose! Come see me baby! That course is supah fast and downhill ;-) It's not that attractive (ie: you're running on a bike path in friggen Albany) but I'm planning on running it again if I don't get into NYC via the lottery. I had fun even if I did bring in the rear LOL. Seriously. The median time for finishers for that race is 3:5X. So very proud of you. Give yourself some time, you will be proud, too. Come to Richmond, Fall 2009. Fall weather not that different from yours, but somewhat warmer. Free room and board and childcare. Good meals. Breakfast in bed on Sunday if you want it! Fairly flat course. Scenic. Known as the friendliest Marathon in the country. Bring your whole family - parents, too. We can do cosmos or margharitas or whatever you want. What a great job to persevere to the end without walking. sorry about your race... i know it's not what you were hoping for {hugs}. It's still an amazing time, and you will have learned from it, to kick ass in the next one. The full marathon that I would love to do one day is the Niagara Falls International. Start in the US, finish in Canada... heard good reviews about it. You wouldn't have to go through such a climate change either! :) ahh i am so sorry :( you were so close!!! i also HATE the heat, i cant imagine what it would be like to someone training in the snow. hang in there, you will get your race. you ARE a fast and amazing runner!!! CIM in december - i am going to do it again!! it was cold, but not too cold (40s?) and a fast course! hang in there and hold your head high... you trained SOO hard and you will get that BQ. Bay State...no surprises w/course or weather! And, Kevin can pace you -- I know from experience he is the best pacer, ever...he jumped in at mile 19 of Chicago where I was hanging on the arm of the 3:40 pacer and told me the pacer's calculations were off & we had to speed up to hit the mark. Somehow he got me through, because that was just about the worst news I could have received at that point. So...Bay State...we'll be there to scream and cheer and witness your victory!!! Hi. I am a new reader to your blog. Someone linked this post to me, because I also ran the PF Chang's Rock 'N Roll marathon in the 3:40 pace group with John. I was probably running alongside you (dark blond ponytail, white shirt, navy shorts, headphones) at some point. Anyway, I am very sorry to hear that you missed your goal time. I know how disappointing that must be. But all of your training and hard work will pay off in your future races. I am from the midwest, so my fall marathon recommendations would be the Twin Cities or Chicago (the latter of which I am going to run). Both are supposed to be amazing courses with great crowd support. Your marathoning days are just ahead of you! All of your training is not wasted- more like money in the bank. Please, please don't feel like a failure. You made it to the finish line. Period. You wanted to quit, but you didn't. That is a sign of a winner! Rest up and then get back in the saddle. Fall marathon suggestion- any marathon that will make you happy! Big marathons I love are Chicago & NYC. If you prefer small marathons- Spinx in Greenville, SC is good, too. Best wishes and remember- you are a winner! I vote for Steamtown or Baystate. Oh Kristina! I feel your sadness, but please feel proud! You ran a phenominal race!!! It's very difficult to run in different climates. I'm even worried about running hills because Florida is flat. I like my flat, 85 degree runs. Chin up, SISTA!!! You ROCKED!!!!!! xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo so sorry that your race didn't go the way you wanted it to. I have the feeling that all of your hard work will stick with you though, you'll be able to use it later on. I haven't run it, but I'd recommend Steamtown. It's supposed to be a great course and there won't be any warm weather or humidity problems that other, more coastal races would have. Nuts! I'm sorry the race didn't turn out as you had planned. But, you wrote a terrific post about it :-) I read that book and really enjoyed it. It's a great one to give to another! I say BayState. Either that or Hyannis.... You could still pull it off this year if you wanted to. AZ could've just been a long run... You are better than that run in AZ. I'm sorry things went awry. When I saw your time I flipped Boston the bird. It's just a fucking arbitrary time invented to torture runners into thinking they suck. Still, you'll conquer that time. You'll get that BQ. You're a 3:40 marathoner. You ARE a good marathoner. You will get your 3:40...and so will I. You looked amazing until the salt deficit of mile 20. I am so happy you came, my new blog BFF. Don't dwell. Did someone say something about a marathon in November? Just think, you set a PR even when you were suffering. That is incredible. Way to go! As for a fall marathon, Richmond!! Because it was your first IIRC, it's fast, and Virginia is lovely in November. And just in case it is as hot as blazes (it was for me in 06), there are two junk food stops with coke and pretzels. And for future hot runs, Endurolytes are da bomb. I couldn't train in VA in the summer without them. Way to go Kristina, even if you are down about it right now, before too long you will look upon your PR for the triumph that it is. I'm sorry it was such a hard experience. That salt intake gets me more often than I'd like to admit to. I wish someone could just tell me before a race exactly what I needed to do to perform at my best. Based on your training, you are much faster than your Phoenix time. You are strong and amazing. Keep your chin up! Great race report. I'm really sad for you and I wish I could buy you a few margaritas and wallow in them for a while with you. Kudos to you for already thinking of the next one. How about Top of Utah? September 19th. Nice and cool, in the mountains. FAST - from their course. Many set a PR on this course." Best wishes! Tammy That totally sucks Kristina. I hope for you that your next marathon experience is not a learning experience. Also, you should come do the Denver Marathon in October. I'll probably be doing the half and if I can keep up, I'll pace you for the first half. Also, I was waiting for you to call me (didn't want to bother you), but wish now that I would have called you. Oh Kristina, my heart aches for you...I know you worked your ass off and it just plain, old sucks when it's not 'the' day. I don't know what to tell you, because nothing is really gonna sound right. I guess I'll just say that I hope at some point soon, you can see the lessons in this day and come back stronger for another marathon. Chase that unicorn, girl, cuz I just KNOW you will catch him soon. "I think our blood is different." I SO agree with this quote at the very beginning of your entry. I live in Northern California, and I am one of the ones who think your training is CRAZY. CRAY-ZEEEE, actually. Yet I can handle warm alright. Now I'm worried about my friend from Chicago who is coming here to run a half -- in July. Hmmm. I'm so very sorry it played out like that. You truly ARE the Murphy's Law of the marathon. That should be your tagline. My suggestion of a great fall marathon, if you're willing to travel: Oct 11th, Healdsburg Marathon. Wine country!! And I promise, it won't be hot. It should be nice crisp fall weather. Bummer that it didn't go as well as you'd hoped. You still amaze me! I hate hot weather races as well (not that I'm anywhere near as fast as you!) I'm going to not recommend the Marine Corps Marathon. I enjoyed it, but the huge number of runner make it a slower race, plus VA can still be pretty darn warm in October. Good luck with your decision! Well crap. I read the first posts and tried to figure out something motivating and inspirational to say and I've still got nothing. You've been amazongly motivating to this runner on a number of occasions... Once you give yourself a chance to be angry and mad and all the other steps of grief, and once the family gives you the OK again, go out there and try it again. Anything less would be failing to admit that you can achieve your dreams. You followed your dream to write a book, follow your dream and bring home the head of a unicorn! I feel your pain! The same thing happened to me running LA in a ridiculous heat! Unlike you, I actually live in So Cal-in the ehat. But I hate it and can't function, let alone run long distances in the heat sun and dry-and that is what you encountered in Arizona! Too much water can be deadly! I found out the hard way! I guess that's why I've become obsessed with carrying my own gatorade now. I got really ill after running LA in 75-80 degree heat! I was very disoriented and vomiting!! It SUCKS! and is a horrible feeling! I so know how you were feeling!! I'm so sorry you had to go thru that! I wouldn't wish it on anyone! You are who you are, your body is what it is-if you're anything like me(well you run ALOT faster than me so we're not that much alike) you like to run in cooler temps and your body does it's best!!! It's called Hypotremia here is how they describe it: Bless your heart! That is so disappointing. I experienced the worst of the norovirus at mile 16 of my Boston Qualifier in December...projectile vomit and everything. SO I can understand your disappointment. I'm doing the Marine Corps in the fall. I'd love to see ya there! I'm sorry you didn't have a great experience...and I hope the next one is better! I'm planning on running the Marine Corps in the fall, and while I can't provide pacing help (as I only dream of finishing an hour after you would...), I do have an extra bedroom. This year for the Philadelphia Marathon it was only 35 degrees...so there is another option :) Just recently started reading your blog and love it. I've decided I'm going to run my first marathon this upcoming Fall...the Chicago. You should too :) The first annual "Mother Road Marathon" in Joplin, Mo. Goes through three states-Oct 3rd. Thanks for sharing your race.I know you'll come out stronger than ever! I'm so sorry, Kristina. I'm sending you major huge hugs!! I am a long time reader of your blog. I am in awe of your dedication and determination. I recently lived in the South (TN) for 10 years and have moved to Chicago. I am NOT going to miss running in the heat. At any rate, on Thanksgiving Day, Atlanta hosts an annual marathon. Of course, the weather during this time of year is BEAUTIFUL in the South. LOW humidity, 50 degree temps and a beautiful city to run in. Word ver= "cactis"!! If it's any consolation, you just BQ'ed your race report. Or whatever the writing equivalent of a BQ is. Good thing, as you clearly demonstrated your writing chops once again while in the midst of writing a book. You are still moving forward on your PR chart though, no? Maybe not as fast as you would like but forward nonetheless. Why waste all that good training? Jump into a spring marathon - in a cool place - 2 months or so from now. Your training runs didn't lie...you are faster than 3:57 on a different day. This is a PR for comments on a single post, no? I assume immediate family are excluded from the drawing, but since the book is in my house already, I suppose all I'd get out of winning would be the lack of shipping charges anyway. Way to tough it out. The thing about running is that you do it in a variable environment and no two runs will ever be the same. I think that's why people have a "relationship" with running that they don't generally have with other pursuits. Anyway, I'd be proud to run a mile in your shoes. I'd go with Philly. It's a nice scenic course run at a great time of year and the size of the field is just right. Beautifully written report...it's harder to write about tough times than happy times and I was glued to my screen. My husband did the Chicago marathon and loved the route and how well supported it was...October I think. Looking forward to reading more of your wisdom. I am a new reader of your blog, but immediately added it to my "Morning Coffee" list of reads because I love your writing and I was really anticipating your marathon in Phoenix. I am so sorry about how the race went for you. I had a recent experience where, in a half marathon, not only did I not reach my gaol of breaking 2 hours after LOTS of training, but I actually ran two minutes slower than the year before! At first I was ok with it, thinking that it was unusually warm and humid that day, but one of my girlfriends was able to crush our mutual goal, which made me feel like even more of a loser. I really felt depressed, until a few things helped put it all in perspective (someone actually died in the full marathon). Anyway, I've been back at it for the last 6 weeks and hope to break 2 hrs. on February 1. To run like you, though, would be a dream. You're an inspiration! I'm sorry you didn't reach your goal this time, but there's no doubt that you will get there! p.s.: If I were you, I'd run Maui (if it's true that it's fast and flat, point to point, like someone wrote). You deserve a treat! K - what an incredible job (running and blogging!) ~ no matter how you feel, you are an inspiration! Chicago is flat and fast (so I have heard from numerous sources) - I think I would go for that qualifier if I ever try again in the 40+ age category. Sincerely (your still 30-something, mom runner, yet to check off the marathon completed on the life checklist, blog reader) Jen Kristina, what an excellent race report. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Myself and many other runners can relate. Weather is always a key factor in runs, especially if you are used to cold runs going into warmer territory. Secondly, WOW. These are alot of comments. Nice following. ...and as for a Fall race, I love the San Jose Rock N Roll Half marathon. I've done it the last two years and will also do it this year. It's local for me so that helps, but it is by far my favorite of the 4 Half-Marathons I've participated in. As for a full marathon in the fall, I've only done the race in Florence, Italy and absolutely love it. For a spin on things, the RunSF is at the end of July and although that is summer, you are in SF and it feels like a fall race. It has some slight hills, but nothing crazy and includes an out and back across the Golden Gate Bridge. It isnt a fast course, but a great reason to make it to San Francisco and California. I've read Bart's book and had the chance to meet him last year at an EXPO, wonderful man and a great read, so no need to include me in the raffle hopefully someone else can be inspired. Thanks for the excellent blog FYI, I think I just found your pace group leader. It's this blogger's brother: Wow! What a story! So well written! I'm sorry it didn't turn out how you had hoped, but you got through it (despite the "power outage"). I had to throw in the towel in my first marathon, and it's been eating at me ever since. WAY TO GO!!! While I was training for Boston, and setting multiple goals, one of our running buddies reminded me that my goals on marathon day might need to change given how I felt, etc. etc. Given the circumstances, the fact that you finished, ran to the end, and reached your previous goal of under 4 hours is still worth being alittle happy about. That said, I understand your disappointment and have no doubt you'll get there. Look forward to chatting with you over a run when you're up for it. And while it's not as exciting an option, I'd think about Baystate again. I know several people who have qualified there and you're so familiar with it. Maybe I'll even go for it with you! Your race report was beautifully written. I was moved to tears. The thing I learned in my one and only marathon is that there is no way to predict what will happen. I missed my goal by 24 minutes because of tummy issues that might have been preventable. We learn so much about our bodies during the test of the marathon, don't we? I have heard wonderful things about the Portland Marathon. Oregon is beautiful in the fall and the weather should be cool, if not rainy. You are not the only one who fell victim to the PF Chang curse. My friend Jill had a disappointing day as well: I have been inspired by your training. I couldn't imagine running as much as you did, especially being a mother. Please know that your training journey these last months have touched many people. You may not have met your goal, but I think in the long run this experience will help you more than if you had. Kristina, I'm so sorry it didn't go the way you wanted, and that you had to go through all that pain. But, I admire you and your courage, stamina, and drive (not to mention inner and outer beauty and intelligence - but those qualities are perhaps beside the point...:) Thinking of you and sending you positive thoughts. Be angry and upset. It's okay! Then, keep on going. You're doing great - you ARE a good marathoner. (And this post would make a fabulous chapter for your book. That's the thing about going through these traumatic moments in life - they create great story fodder)! Wonderful race report. Sorry it didn't have a happy ending, but glad to hear you looking for a fall marathon. I'm looking at the Leading Ladies marathon in South Dakota in August. John 3:40's blog is at but he still hasn't written his race report. Lots of comments. I already have the book but I'd recommend the Chickamauga Marathon in Georgia in November. NOT the Atlanta Marathon on Thanksgiving Day. The Atlanta one is NOT a fast course. For the cramps, check out S!-Caps. Favored by long distance (ultra) runners to maintain electrolyte balance. I use them for every run that approaches 2 hours. Anyway, nice work on the race and report. Certainly not your desired result, but definitely a learning experience. I really enjoyed reading everyone else's race goals for later this year. How awesome is that there are so many runners out there? You have some amazing support. AND, I'm sorry you didn't make your goal time BUT you still did FANTASTIC!!!!!!! Congrats on your finish time!!! There's always next time... What an excellent race report! I too, wish that the course would have treated you more kindly. I feel so sad that you didn't get your BQ goal on Sunday. Learn what you can from the experience. (perhaps more sports drink rather than water, E-caps, salt packets - whatever it takes to keep electolytes in balance). Electrolyte balance is tricky, especially with the hot dry air in Arizona. Most people don't realize how much they are sweating until they see the salt caked on their body after the race. Never let go of your BQ dream! Thank you for the kind words. John (the 3:40 pacer) All the good words have already been said. Let me just offer you tons of hugs and tell you that, like Marcy, you are my running hero. Not only because of your speed but for your humor in the face of not achieving what you had set out to. I am humbled. But you will BQ one day. Of that I have no doubt. Congrats. As for races, I would suggest Chicago or Dublin solely because those are my two current top contenders for a fall marathon and I'd really like to meet my running hero. :) Oh, girl. Your race report was phenomenal, including the disappointment clearly embedded in your words. How about Richmond?? I know well the mantra, "Don't quit - just finish" If you lost the battle, you still won the war. Great effort Mama. And the sun came up on Monday morning - Keep on keepin' on! I stumbled on your blog a few months back when searching for ideas on how to train for a marathon. Your posts inspired me as I trained to run my first (Disney) in January. As a mother of 4 children I could relate to many of your posts. Thank you. And chin up! You are still my inspiration as I am sure you are to many. Since you already know my thoughts on your marathon, I will get right to the point. If I win the book (Bart was at VCM last year as well - I heard him speak but haven't read the book yet), I will even let Brian read it before you pass it along to me. AND you don't have to pay postage for me either. first off, that was a tremendous effort and you deserve credit for not just finishing, but struggling through serious adversity to such a respectable finish. a sub 4 hour PR is a heck of a milestone. i've heard enough post-race revisionism to completely understand kevin's reply you quoted, but i also heartily disagree with it for the runner realistically looking at their accomplishments. we all have an "ideal" race within us - a time we are in the right physical and mental condition to complete the course in. the hard part of marathoning is making that "ideal" time our actual PR time. training should help our chances to achieve this, but there a host of factors outside our control that affect it as well. given your training and preparation you should have achieved your goal. but there were other factors that came into play you were unaware of or misjudged. so that final time certainly doesn't mean you aren't any faster than you ran this race. you are faster, otherwise, why ever run again? your encounter with RnR AZ is about as delightful as my first run-in with the event, and i trained out here. i went in hoping for a BQ and came out with an unhappy realization that it was going to be a mite more challenging an achievement than i had expected. if you think missing the cutoff by 20-minutes is tough to swallow, wait till it eludes you by less than four. and every time i've suffered the disappointment of missing this goal, it's redoubled my commitment to achieving it. i really am faster than i am. and i'm damn well going to prove it this year. i'm expecting you will too.

At the beginning of Juan Williams’ book on Thurgood Marshall, he quotes from the Book of Job. For inquire of bygone ages, and consider what the fathers have found…will they not teach you, and tell you, and utter words out of their understanding? Job 8:8-10 For inquire of bygone ages, and consider what the fathers have found…will they not teach you, and tell you, and utter words out of their understanding? Job 8:8-10 Beginning with this article, we will follow the advice given Job and walk back in history to unearth leadership lessons that provide us insights into the understanding of leadership as a process. We will look at a textbook example of leadership at work in Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s first administration by examining his first Fireside Chat and one of the cornerstone pieces of legislation in the New Deal. But why look to the American presidency as an example of leadership for education? Because, like political leadership, educational leadership operates in a political and democratic environment. To set the stage for the act of leadership we will examine, we must turn the clock of our imagination back to 1929. Assume that you are approaching retirement age and that you had moved most of your financial assets out of stocks, or whatever other investments you had, into interest-bearing bank deposits. The only significant difference is that, unlike today’s deposits, which are insured by the federal government, in the 1920s, no bank deposit is insured. In other words, if your bank goes out of business, your money is lost. This was the environment in which our parents and grandparents banked in pre-Roosevelt days. Now put yourself in the position of a banker. You have large numbers of deposits on which you pay interest. They are not stored in a vault but have been loaned out for higher interest to farmers, corporations, homeowners, etc. Some depositors’ money has even been invested in stocks. Let’s begin our scenario from the perspective of the banker. The stock market drops sharply, and all of a sudden banks have lost a significant chunk of their assets. They are short of funds. Some 500 of the nation’s weaker banks go out of business. The surviving banks raise interest rates on their loans to create more revenue and begin to clamp down on corporations, farmers and homeowners who are late on their payments. People begin withdrawing funds from their accounts because they are nervous about the economy. The stock market continues falling as a new year begins, and the rate of bank failures begins to increase. As a banker, you keep tightening credit, but now anxious customers continue withdrawing even more funds and putting them under their mattresses. At this point, a very large bank closes its doors and goes out of business. Now return for a moment to the position of the depositor. Do you leave your money in the bank, or withdraw it? You’re worried that your bank might go under, taking your deposits with it, so you go to the bank to withdraw your funds and find yourself in line with hundreds, if not thousands, of fellow depositors. The bank tries to slow the process down and orders the tellers to pay with single dollar bills. Panic ensues around the country, and 1,500 banks close in a year. This is very close to what happened to our banking system between the Stock Market Crash of 1929 and the election of Franklin Roosevelt in 1932. Although we will work with leadership as a step-by-step process, it is clearly an art as well. These dual characteristics remind me somewhat of the Uncertainty Principle. By the turn of the last century scientists knew that things such as an electron or a photon could behave like both a wave and a particle. This combination of characteristics seemed incompatible to scientists at the time. Eventually they accepted the fact, but realized that as a result of these dual characteristics, it was impossible to accurately measure certain pairs of properties, like momentum and location, at the same time. It is not the act of measurement that makes it inexact, but the nature of the particle itself. Leadership is like that too. The nature of leadership itself makes defining it inexact. We can treat leadership as a science and follow all the steps of the process, but ultimately, leadership is also an art, making the definition difficult and the process less than precise. So, I do not wish to assert that leadership always boils down to a cookbook recipe, disregarding the art of leadership, which some people seem to display intuitively. A recipe, even my recipe, provides an incomplete picture. Nonetheless, understanding and using the leadership process improves the likelihood of intended outcomes. This is what makes the study of the process worthwhile. With that preface we can get started on the study of leadership itself. I have borrowed liberally from James Kouzes and Barry Posner, co-authors of The Leadership Challenge, and from James MacGregor Burns, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author on leadership, and a biographer of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. I define leadership as the art of mobilizing others to want to work for shared aspirations, resulting in intended, real change that meets people’s enduring needs. This definition fits many aspects of education, from the boardroom to the classroom, and it can be easily divided into five logical components that are connected and circular. The leader: • Creates broadly shared aspirations. • Uses these shared aspirations to motivate and mobilize others. • Enables others to work for these shared aspirations. • Creates a solution that will result in an intended change. • The change must meet people’s enduring needs. • Creates broadly shared aspirations. • Uses these shared aspirations to motivate and mobilize others. • Enables others to work for these shared aspirations. • Creates a solution that will result in an intended change. • The change must meet people’s enduring needs. From the perspective of the constituent or stakeholder, the process usually occurs in the same order. When looking at these steps from the perspective of the leader, however, they operate in a different sequence. The leader usually begins by understanding the desired end. In other words, the leader begins by understanding the enduring needs, creates a solution or plan for change, and ends by meeting the enduring needs. The planned change is developed in response to the needs assessment and is used to create the shared aspirations as the sequence of leadership steps progresses. Like the 1990s, the 1920s were a time of incredible prosperity. So much so that Herbert Hoover, Roosevelt’s predecessor in the White House, believed that the elimination of poverty was within our grasp as a nation. On August 11, 1928, during his presidential campaign, Hoover tells the American people that “We in America today are nearer to the final triumph over poverty than ever before in the history of any land.” His presidency would show how wrong he was. Probably the weakest link throughout the economic heyday of the 1920s was the banking industry. During those booming years there were approximately 25,000 banks in the United States. They were largely unregulated, they invested heavily in stocks, and people’s deposits were uninsured. A failed bank meant the personal loss of whatever savings its customers had deposited. Even during the good times of the 1920s, banks failed at a rate of approximately 500 per year. By the end of President Hoover’s administration over 3,000 banks had failed, including some very big ones. Bank failure had reached epidemic proportions, and the largest failures were tied to unprofitable speculation in the stock market. This was the situation that Roosevelt inherited when he took office in March 1933. Roosevelt’s solution was twofold. He created a short term solution by insuring sound banks and then built a long-term solution from a bill that he inherited from President Hoover and one that was already in Congress – the Glass-Steagall Act. Hoover had already determined that in order to strengthen the banking industry he needed to somehow prevent future bank failures. At the same time he needed to create confidence in the American public that bank deposits were safe. Hoover’s failure was not in understanding the need, or even in designing a remedy, but instead in his inability to successfully implement a process that mobilized the American public to want to work for shared aspirations. Roosevelt, however, succeeded brilliantly. How did he do it? Roosevelt created a story or a message that encompassed the five steps of the leadership process. He created shared aspirations by taking the American public to school in his first Fireside Chat. He informed them about how the banking system operated and brought benefits to the country as a whole and to Americans as individuals. He went on to mobilize the American public by describing the individual’s role and responsibility in making the nation’s banking system work. His intended change was to make the banking system safe by certifying banks as sound. With safe banks, he enabled the work by encouraging Americans to redeposit their funds. Within days, Roosevelt began to fulfill his part of the promise. He had already declared a “bank holiday”, but then he kept most of the banks closed, and gradually reopened them as they were certified as sound – exactly as he promised in his address. His process, however, was incomplete. Without some kind of systemic change as an intended change, he would probably not successfully address the public’s enduring needs. Within months after this first radio address, the Glass-Steagall Act was passed. It was an elegantly simple solution that created both the systemic and intended change that met the people’s enduring needs. Within eight days of taking office President Roosevelt was on the airwaves, simultaneously creating shared aspirations, mobilizing the public, and showing people the action they needed to take. On March 12, 1933, Franklin Roosevelt stemmed the tide of bank failures and deposit withdrawals with the announcement of three immediate steps – extending the “bank holiday,” reopening only sound banks and issuing new currency. The first thing Roosevelt clearly understood was how to use the radio, a medium still in its early years. To assume that the message itself guaranteed success was to ignore Marshall McLuhan’s adage that the “medium is the message.” Both medium and message were critical in Roosevelt’s address. Today it may seem obvious that Roosevelt’s Fireside Chats would work, but at the time there was no reason to assume they would. Herbert Hoover had used the radio, but with little success. He had the information to tell the story. He even had the solution that Roosevelt would ultimately use. But he did not understand that the medium and the message were intertwined, and of comparable value in creating shared aspirations and mobilizing people. Hoover viewed the radio somewhat like a megaphone. He assumed that if he was in Washington, D.C., addressing a nationwide audience, he needed to yell. He would scream into the microphone so that people as far away as California could hear better. The result was that no one wanted to listen. Roosevelt understood the technology far better, and was more committed to a national, interactive community of learners than was Hoover. At the time, the radio was a large piece of living room furniture, and families would gather around it to listen. Roosevelt wanted to be invited into the living room for a family conversation. He wanted to be viewed as a trusted friend, a good first step in creating shared aspirations. How did he do it? In large part, he did it through style, the art form of leadership, and his understanding of the medium. First, he asked his speech writers to use only the more common words in the English language so that everyone could understand him. Second, he slowed his speech down to 100 to 120 words per minute. Third, he spoke from a chair in front of a group of his own friends. He invited several of his friends to attend every Fireside Chat. He placed the microphone between himself and his friends and began each speech with the phrase “my friends.” He conversed with his own friends to make certain that he was, in fact, conducting a conversation rather than making a speech. Fourth, he and his staff worked long and hard on the script. Fifth, he made the radio interactive. Hoover received 500 letters in a typical week. Roosevelt would receive up to 1,000 times more – a half-million in a week. His staff read the letters, kept track of the public’s reactions to the radio addresses, and responded to the letters. Roosevelt used the letters as a barometer of his policies and responded by adjusting future speeches and sometimes even his policies. While style was essential to his success, what about his message? How did he accomplish the leadership steps necessary to success? First, Roosevelt created shared aspirations by explaining how the American banking system worked, and making it clear that when it worked right, it benefited all Americans. He began by acknowledging his most important audience and introducing his subject. .” Next, he taught a lesson, he explaining what banks did – he took the public to school – but he did it in a way that was designed to create shared aspirations. .” This simple set of sentences accomplished four tasks that effective messages generally contain. First, they created an identity for the individual as a part of the solution: “When you deposit money…your money…keep[s] the wheels of industry and agriculture turning round.” Second, they defined the individual as part of a larger group – depositors across the country. Third, they identified the enemy as perceived by the public (the banks) and educated the public on how they operated and were motivated. Fourth, they brought these three groups (the individual, the individual as part of a group of depositors, and the banks) together by creating shared value and meaning – making it clear that their success was mutually interdependent. By the end of his speech Roosevelt had convinced his listeners that Americans as a group and as individuals all benefited from a healthy banking industry. He had turned the success of the banks – which the public had previously viewed as the enemy – into a shared aspiration, defining the success of each party as being dependent on the success of all parties. The creation of shared aspirations motivated the public to solve the problem, but Roosevelt now had to mobilize them to want to work. He did this by creating a simple task for everyone to do. He asked them to redeposit their money in the bank. He ended this first radio address by saying “It is up to you to support and make it [the banking recovery] work. It is your problem, my friends, your problem no less than it is mine. Together we cannot fail.” Roosevelt used this Fireside Chat to reinforce one of the most significant and recurring themes of his administration – freedom from fear. Without fear influencing judgment, Roosevelt was convinced that most Americans would make good decisions. He addressed it head-on in his talk: “Let us unite in banishing fear.” But to enable the necessary work to be done, Roosevelt knew he must do more than merely make a rhetorical attack on fear. He must do something to remove the fear of bank failures. He did it with a simple promise. He said that he would keep the banks closed and then gradually reopen them as they were proven sound. “I do not promise you that every bank will be reopened or that individual losses will not be suffered … but I can … promise you salvation … [through the] reopening [of] sound banks [and] the creation of more sound banks through reorganization.” In other words, he promised depositors that while their individual banks might not reopen, any bank that did reopen, and any new bank created to serve their needs, would be a sound bank that would survive. The intended result of this radio address was two-fold. To rebuild the banking system, Roosevelt needed people to redeposit their money, and he also needed to eliminate the banks that were financially unsound. Both results were achieved, in parallel, as they had to be. Roosevelt could not expect deposits to flow back into the system unless he delivered on his promise to make it sound. He did so by taking steps that were entirely within his control. First, he kept the banks closed exactly as he promised, and then he reopened them on a schedule described in his radio address. Second, during this “bank holiday” he identified the unsound banks and prevented them from reopening, again as promised. Third, he issued new currency (also as promised in his address) to make certain that every reopened bank could meet any call on its funds. The result of these actions was a system of sound banks that attracted deposits in record amounts, thus reinforcing the system’s strength. Roosevelt’s radio address is fascinating in many respects, but in terms of meeting enduring needs it is particularly interesting because he did not include actions that were outside his control. Yet his actions, as outlined in the radio address, were not yet complete if he was to meet the public’s enduring need for a sound banking system. For that he needed to implement some kind of systemic change which was dependent on Congress. As mentioned above, he inherited this change – the Glass-Steagall legislation – from the Hoover administration. Hoover had realized that the banking system faced two major problems. First, it needed to restore and maintain the public’s confidence, i.e., eliminate the fear people had of losing their savings. Second, the system needed to overcome the factors that made banks vulnerable to failure. The Glass-Steagall Act was introduced at the end of the Hoover administration and signed by Roosevelt on June 16, 1933. It solved both of these problems with elegant simplicity. First, it insured individuals’ deposits through a new government institution, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). This, in effect, created the freedom from fear that Roosevelt sought. (Interestingly, Roosevelt initially objected to this insurance and only realized its value over time.) I suspect that even today most of us take for granted that our bank deposits are secure, and seldom think of the fact that within our parents’ or grandparents’ lifetimes they were not. Second, Glass-Steagall separated the commercial and investment banking businesses so that banks could no longer risk depositors’ money through speculative investments. Did Roosevelt’s banking reform meet people’s enduring needs? Absolutely. The bank failure rate had exceeded an average of 500 per year even through the boom years of the 1920s. In 1929 the failure rate began to creep up and in 1932 it exceeded 1,000. But from the passage of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1933, until the deregulation of savings and loans in the early 1980s, the failure rate never exceeded 10 per year. In addition, the acceleration of deposit withdrawals was reversed and the United States has never again experienced anything like the bank panics of the late 1920s and early 1930s. By any standard that is enduring success. As a footnote, in 1999 Congress passed the Financial Services Act, repealing the Glass-Steagall separation of commercial and investment banking. The repeal reflects both an effort to strengthen America’s competitiveness in the global financial industry and the deregulation movement that began under President Carter with the airlines. The recent exposure of the conflict of interest within investment banking houses, including those owned by banks, indicates that the recent legislation may not have gotten it quite right. Over the next several months, I will use the leadership process described in the example above by applying it to education, with continuing illustrations from American presidents. I will start next month by applying the process to a theory of leadership pertaining to the school principal.

"Your mission, should you choose to accept it ..." Remember the classic TV show "Mission: Impossible"? The team always took the impossible mission and somehow made it possible. Today's mission: SERMON COMPLETION If we choose to accept this mission, here are the lectionary texts of the week: We are given the (so called) "Great Commission" by Jesus in Matthew 28:16-20 and there is so much about Jesus' expectation that seems impossible, or at least implausible. Even that first word "Go ..." seems uber-challenging at times. So, what did God have in mind (Genesis 1:1-2:4a) when dream became urge became labor became creation? What was possible for God to set in motion has become impossible for humans to sustain. Or has it? Psalm 8 affirms that human beings were created to be a little lower than God? How low will we go? Is it possible to find the place where we belong? Paul's final word to the energetic and contentions Corinthian church (2 Corinthians 13:11-13) was to "put things in order." Is it indeed possible for the word of a preacher to inspire change? Which of these texts hold possibilities for your sermon? And ... Trinity Sunday or Great Commission? Or something else entirely? Welcome to the 11th Hour Preacher Party where it is totally possible for your sermon-to-be to become sermon-ready-to-go! Ask for help, work out whatever loose threads are hanging and share ideas for themes, illustrations, children's time, and anything else you have to offer of a liturgical or non-liturgical nature. Lurkers and non-preaching cheerleaders are urged to join in! May snacks and humor abound! "Good luck, friends!" Hi, Home from leading a one day retreat for some people from the congregation, now it is time to tidy up the loose ends for worship tomorrow. It is our denominational anniversary, so we are showing a DVD from the Assembly about the past, present and future of the UCA. The Sunday School are looking at creation, and due to a glitch [mine] in the rosters, I am on children’s talk. Mentioning trinity after the children go to Sunday School, with a humorous (?) trinity quiz and a few images of trinity. Because the DVD goes for about 10 minutes, I am not planning on preaching, just try and draw it together at the end. This is good, as I had very little voice during the week. It is much better now, but still not strong, so no preaching will be good. Children, I am thinking of having some pictures of different parts of creation, and asking the children to hold them out the front, and see if the congregation can get them in the correct order. Chicken Schnitzel for dinner in an hour or so. [4.54 pm Saturday] Good morning, RevGals and everyone! Pearl, thanks for starting us off and I love your idea for the children's sermon that gets the congregation involved. Glad you get to rest your voice, too. I have freshly made fair trade French roast coffee to go with the sausage and biscuits that are just about ready to go on the breakfast buffet. Help yourselves! Good morning (Eastern standard time)! Tomorrow kicks off a summer-long sermon series that you all will no doubt be sick and tired of by the time September runs around. We will be doing sermons per request. We have already collected the suggestions and have scheduled them out. Tomorrow kicks off with a baseball themed sermon. Title: In the Big Inning. Duh. The following weeks get significantly harder with judgment and rapture and the Book of Revelation... but for today, it's baseball. A wedding at 11 and softball at 1 (don't think I can make the 12 game) interrupt the flow of the day and The Boy will be home after my return from my own game so it would be nice to add more to this skeleton of a sermon I have so far. First - the dogs. Sorry for kicking off with a small essay - sheesh! Good morning folks, It's been a tough month and I am exhausted, so I will be preaching a sustainable sermon which I'll rework this morning. Then beloved and I are going on a day trip. I have hazelnut coffee to share if anybody wants some. Kathrynzj -- sermons by request! I like that (I think). I'll be following the summer closely. Not preaching tomorrow. just got an emergency call from someone in my church, her husband has been taken to the hospital. will be doing that and writing prayers and praying for our call committee. kathrynzj, sermons per request, I am not sure I would be so brave. love to hear how it goes. I'm finished earlier than usual, so time for another cup of tea. I'll check in tomorrow and see how you are all going. kathrynzj, I look forward to hearing about all your sermons this summer. What a very cool idea! I hope you have fun with it. Diane, praying with you throughout the day. God_Guurrlll, prayers for your day trip to be just the R&R that is needed after all the challenges. Thanks for the fresh coffee! Please check in later, if you feel like it. Trinity, trinity trinity....still not done and have a long day of kid-shuttling ahead of me. I'm sort of doing the mystery thing. I guess. I suspect it's going to be a long night unless I can pull it off in the next hour.... I love the idea of "sermons by request"...would have to figure out how to make it work with the RCL since I have to stick to those readings...maybe another year... I am trying to preach short homilies without a text for the summer, kid friendly too, since our kids are in worship for the whole service. My reflection tomorrow will be on the trinity with a connection to the creation story in Genesis. Love pearls idea of having the kids hold images of creation....I'm going to invite the kids to help and may use this idea....maybe... Good morning all. I enjoyed a long conversation with my 18 year old son in the wee hours of the morning. It was great to have him actually sit and be in conversation with me. However, I'm paying with brain fuzz this morning when I need to be alert and witty and thoughtful to get a sermon written. A few weeks ago, at confirmation retreat, we were talking about God as both male and female together - based on Genesis 1: 26 - 28. Then one of the boys who has five brothers in a multi-racial/multi-ethnic family formed through adoption asked, "Is God black or white, or what?" I explained to him that I believe a recent picture of him and his brothers with all different skin tones was the closest thing I've seen to the image of God when it comes to race and ethnicity. So today, I'm taking just those small verses from the lectionary along with Galatians 3: 26 - 28 and writing about the image of God as wholeness and how when any group is missing, excluded, marginalized, we are not yet restored to the image of God. Now if I could just take that paragraph and turn it into several pages - all will be well. Children's time will address Father's Day and talk about Father as one (but not the only) image of God we find in the Bible and how we have spiritual fathers in the church whether they are our family fathers or not. The kids are making something to pass out to all the men. Going to Farmer's Market in a bit. I'll bring back some fresh fruit for all of us. Wow, mid-life rookie, LOVING that. And what a beautiful answer to that young man. Thank you. I will be sure to keep you posted on how the summer series goes. We mainly decided to do it as a litmus test of where the congregation is. We're pcusa and after the turmoil of 10a passing we wanted to see if homosexuality was prime on our congregants' minds. It isn't. And so now I am 'stuck' preaching about judgment and forgiveness and baptism and being a Presbyterian... and baseball. About that baseball sermon... off I go! Good morning Susan, Terri, and Mid-Life Rookie! You three are looking at Trinity things, it seems. "What does God look like?" indeed! Very nice pictures you paint: God the mystery, God seen in all of us together, and the many biblical images of God reflected in our real-life spiritual fathers. A trip to the Farmer's Market sounds like fun! I wonder if there's a Saturday one close by me? Good morning, y'all. I'm planning to preach about chaos, drawing comparison between chaos of creation, chaos of saying goodbye to Jesus and chaos of Trinity. I will have ex-tended family in the pews, by which I mean ex-family, the Father of My Children and his father and stepmother, all there to hear my son play the clarinet. It's also Father's Day and my daughter's 16th birthday. And, my former father-in-law happened to be present the last time these texts came up, so I can't return to the pretty awesome sustainable sermon from that date. Yes, we're all about the relational, uncomfortably so. Try explaining who that lady is: "the step-grandmother of my children" or "the second wife of my former father-in-law" or "I'm her stepdaughter-ex-law." Modern living! First, I'm going out to Tony's Donuts, because this is my son's last Saturday home before he leaves to be a summer music camp counselor. We've eaten all the favorite local foods while he's been home except the donuts. Back in a little while. kathrynzj, OOOh, a baseball sermon. Lucky folks at your place...When I preach on baseball I get uber-blank stares (of course, baseball may not be the problem...); and I refuse to preach on HOCKEY. Our folks are getting CREATION to COMMISSION in three easy points (ha!) -- we are omitting the Psalm, which I grieve for, I wanted to quote Marilynne Robinson, but it would, sigh, have been a definite digression. Rainy as time, and I have a long midday interruption, lunch with Retired Clergy and Survivors, best get at it. Sermon is finished. Read all about it here. Gosh darn it, I imagine that the congregation is sick of me constantly challenging them to go out into the world but the gospel calls me to do no other. Sometimes being a pastor in an anxious system feels like this Farside cartoon. I'm not preaching today, but (WOO-HOO) that will not be the case for long!! I've been gone from the Preacher Party for the last several weeks - first the interview with a call committee, then two weekends full of graduations and then a weekend of synod assembly. And in the middle of that, I got a call! Ordination is this Friday and we head out from OH to SD on the following Monday. Today, I look forward to reading everyone's words of wisdom. In two week's I look forward to adding some of my own. Eeek it's father day tomorrow. Gotta get cracking on a children's sermon and/or pastoral prayer that recognizes this day. woo hoo Ramona. I am so happy for you. Yay Ramona! Yay Ramona! Glad for you. oh Ramona -- blessings and hugs and congratulations! I'm off to the wedding and then the softball game, wondering if I can wear the uniform for the latter underneath the robe for the former. Blessings upon all of you writing or going about the day hoping the sermon is percolating. I have a letter from my grandmother that was part of her Will. It is to her children, telling them to keep the peace, etc. It sounds much like the 2 Cor text so I am reading both and talking about how much we need to treat one another with peace and love, and wondering why we let ourselves get so far from God, and the disastrous consequences (showing video from Vancouver as an example). There will be lots of "we" talk because we are all at risk without God in our lives... and then I'll move into a bit about the Trinity. The tough part is the conclusion, with which I always struggle. I have gluten-free waffles to share! I just need to stop eating and get writing. Yea, Ramona! Many blessings! Martha, I'm totally in awe of your modern family configuration and your good-natured approach to it all. There is much to celebrate in that! I've gotten a few words down on paper about the Great Commission along the lines of it being a mission statement. I want to suggest that we have some way to "test" all the things that we do in light of what Jesus sent us to actually do. Still working on it ... Hi All Just made a batch of tiffin so tuck in! I'm currently thinking along the lines of combining Trinity Sunday with Father's Day (here in the UK) and looking at the trinity as a model for human relationships ( following Jurgen Moltmann's social analogy) and drawing in the Genesis text as evidence of God being "in relationship" with the words "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness...in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them" All well and good but only thoughts not an actual sermon text so far!! Congrats, Ramona! I wandered over to Text this Week and really like a piece called Three is not Enough! It's a Jewish perspective. I've also been reading a little Moltmann this morning. Still not sure exactly where I'm going. I did pull out a vintage sermon and posted it on my blog. It's my backup plan. Most of the morning has been spent coping with details of next Saturday's ordination of our new bishop and plans for the service the Presiding Bishop will celebrate the next day. I am trying to balance short answers with polite answers. ;-) And then there's the time I've spent locating a place to stay on sabbatical next March. It's between the Dordogne and Tuscany at the moment. This search, though, is helping me stay sane. Maybe I can explain God's bringing order out of chaos by talking about putting on an ordination! Nah, that will either bore them to death or have them laughing in the aisles. Good morning, RevGals! Ramona: YAY and blessings! Songbird: Could you bring back some donuts for me?? With Trinity Sunday drawing us into Ordinary Time, I've been thinking a lot about what it means to enter into that season. Given the past year, which has been wondrous but pretty wild and intense, I find myself looking toward Ordinary Time with lots of anticipation this year. More about that in my post Trinity Sunday: Blessing of the Ordinary at The Painted Prayerbook. Also, my friend Elizabeth Nordquist recently posted a lovely reflection on entering Ordinary Time at her blog, A Musing Amma: "Extraordinarily Ordinary." Wherever tomorrow's many liturgical possibilities beckon you, blessings to you! Geez will blogger letmecomment or is this a divine get back to work msg? Try#3 Congratulations Ramona! SB, blessings on your ex-tended family day...the Trinity is all about the relational, right? I have a baptism tomorrow and the parents just told me that they expect about 80 family members and friends to attend...which is more than my average Sunday attendance. I think I need to go print some more bulletins! I'm preaching on the great commission, but that is about as far as I've gotten. The sun is out here--a rare occurrence these days--so and it would be nice not to spend the whole day inside! Sharon, I'm far from crowing about it. Daughter tells me her dad planned to take kids and his dad to lunch/brunch; he thought I wouldn't want to go. "Can't I just have a normal family on my birthday?" Um, yes. I gave birth to her. I'm going out to her birthday lunch. Took a detour back to bed for a while. We all had short nights with an early morning getting son's car to shop for big 90K maintenance before he heads off to college in a few weeks. So eventually all of us wound up sleeping some more. My brain has less fuzz now, but no more words of wisdom than it did earlier. Come Holy Spirit. I've now missed all the good stuff at the Farmer's Market, so we'll have to settle for store bought produce one more week. Bananas anyone? Ramona, blessings to you on your new call! Ramona...hooray! Kathrynzj, I love your summer series too. How refreshing that your folks have many things on their minds, not just the latest resolution. Jill, the letter from your grandmother sounds like a lovely way to translate the scripture. Margaret, episcopal ordinations are such fun and so.much.work. I'm on our Standing Committee and thought of you as we gave consent :-) RevDr: 80 guests?? Oh my. I am in a happy place because my sermon for the family service took a lot of planning and set up but it was all finished by Thursday. I have 7 stations, each to do with a day of creation; each has a sticker or object (light=b'day candle, sky=cotton ball cloud, etc.) to put in/on a small take-out food box, along with a question (What's your favorite animal? What do you think it's like on the moon? How would you describe the sky?). I am very pleased with the idea and I hope it actually works, and that on this first Sunday after all the schools are out, there are people there to engage it. My dad died only 5 weeks ago, so Father's Day is a tender spot for me...not bad, just emotional. Hi my "mission impossible sister preachers." Loved the tv show and movies. Thinking of you as you prepare your sermons for Sunday. Wishing I was preparing with you and preaching on a regular basis. I really miss it. Any way I can be of support and help to you all. I have you in my prayers. I preached a sermon on this years ago, only I called it Mission Possible. And what about Father's day? Mine died over 20 years ago, I find myself grieving him today. I never knew what a fan he was of mine until he decided to leave the So. Baptist church and denomination out of support to me. Bravo Dad. Betsy, I see yours died just 5 weeks ago, I am sending you love and hugs. Margaret, thinking of you as you prepare for so much including a big time Bishop ordination. Wow Ramona, you go girl, we are having a cyber pep rally for you. Yea for the good coming your way. God_Guurll, sorry for your tough month, I can empathize. Thinking of you,hope all goes well. Love you all and hope it all goes well. Whoops, I meant he died 10 years ago. It has gotten easier, but still hurts at times. Ramona, Great news! Blessings. MidLife Rookie: Thanks for the story and the company in that part of Genesis. Songbird: Have a great lunch. Am focusing on image, likeness and what it means for us in our relationships with one another and with creation. A lot of things swirling around--Juneteenth Day, Fathers Day, who knows--maybe even the Trinity! Having trouble getting a focus. Hello gals and pals Lots going on here! Ramona, congrats on your call! Busy times ahead! Martha, sounds like a tough weekend but I am glad you are sticking up for yourself. I am totally, utterly exhausted due to raging insomnia, unbloggable stuff, just getting back from a week at Annual Conference electing folks for our quadrennial General Conference of the UMC, unpacking three kids and me, packing three kids and me for a week in Massachusetts leaving very early Monday morning for the 12 hour drive. And preaching three times (same sermon) and leading worship, for the last time, at the church I have served for 5 years. Next weekend off and then I start a new appointment July 1. So a lot of emotions. And a headache. The 2 Corinthians and Matthew texts lend themselves very well to a farewell sermon, thank goodness. Ignoring Father's day, will hit it in the prayers. Touching on Trinity. Sorry for the book. I need some prayer please to make it through the next three days. Blessings to all. Sarah ~~ Sounds like a great start! How's it coming along at this point? MumPastor ~ Our prayers surround you in the many challenges you are facing. Farewell sermons can be very sweet times of good-bye, as difficult as those times can be. I hope you get some sleep soon! That will help. RevAlli ~ Some very good things swirling in your sermonizing. Keep stirring! revabi ~ Your dad sounds like a gem. How wonderful that he supported your call so tangibly. Betsy ~ I love the family service that you have planned. It's the kind of thing that people will always remember. RevDrMom ~ I vote for going outside for inspiration before spending some, not all, of the day with the sermon. Welcome, Rev Nancy ~ Blogger can be a pain. Keep trying! Glad you are here! Margaret & Jan ~ Thanks for checking in today and thanks for the inspirational goodies! mid-life rookie ~ Yes, I'd love a banana! I forgot I had a pre-marital appointment this morning until my phone alarm went off right in the middle of a phone call. I dashed out and just got back so there is no lunch ready yet. I do have some tea brewing for iced tea and some lemon, mint and sugar or honey to make it just the way anyone likes it! Now, to find some lunch to go with that tea and banana! Sharon, Do you have specific materials you use for pre marital counseling? I just booked my first wedding for October. I have now come to the point in sermon worrying that I fear I don't know anything. Maybe it's lunchtime. Wow are we a busy crew or what? Congrats, Ramona! Whoohooo! I've been away for a long time, but am changing my life significantly, and hope to be more present very soon... I'm doing the Trinity thing--talking about God being love, and therefore in relationship and using Atticus Finch as both an example of love and relationship (with Scout and Jem) and an ideal father (it being Father's Day here in Canada). Not terribly fresh, but it'll preach! I'm having a light lunch of cheddar cheese and crackers with apples... Finished! Now I can hang with family! Ramona - May you find many blessings in your new beginnings. Martha - I have always appreciated that my parents who are divorced have made every effort to be amicable and supportive when it came to us kids and now grandkids. Kudos to you for hanging in there even when others make it difficult. Prayers for all who grieve their fathers either through death or broken relationships. For those who desire to be fathers and are not able. For those who agreed to let someone else father their child in the interest of that child. And for those whose children are lost to them. Have a great afternoon everyone. Is it bad that I'm watching the word count as I type, trying to decide if I'm done? #dogwaitingtobewalked Mumpastor, prayers for you in this transition. So much to do, feel, say, decide. I was at the farmers' market with my younger son and was telling him that the altar guild often gets the Sunday flowers there, then that I had given the flowers for church tomorrow in thanksgiving for the dads in our lives...at which point I began to cry. Maybe I ought to have the rector on call as backup for the service tomorrow (not the family one) at which I am the celebrant, just in case I find this all too fresh to be able to officiate. Stop by for some fresh local fruit: cherries, strawberries, nectarines, peaches, plums, and apricots! Prayers for you Betsy, I'm speaking of baptism and my deceased father who baptized me..May the Spirit uphold you. Looking for the sermon fairy...or inspiration...or something. Went out to lunch and to get dinner supplies at Whole Foods with my son after making 50 extra bulletins and doing other assorted tasks for tomorrow. Nice day, but I hate that it's 3:20 (EDT) and I haven't even opened a word doc yet. I'm toying with all of the readings tomorrow as Love Story - if Creation spun out of the Love in the Trinity... It's not quite there yet though. Hello everyone! Just settling down to get started on this warm Saturday in a quiet, cool church. mid-life rookie--thanks for putting just the right children's sermon out there! I have struggled with that a bit in this new call, just because it's not something I'm used to doing. I've been pondering the points made on Sermon Brainwave this week about Genesis--that things are deemed "good" when there are a group of things in right relationship with each other. That is how they reflect the nature of God as the Trinity--a God eternally in right relationship, even before anything was created. Or something like that. Ramona! Congratulations! I have been in the system of which you speak and it can be frustrating. Way to go on your new call! I have a lot of words, but no conclusion. I think I'll walk away from it. We could use some groceries here, or at least something we could eat for dinner. Back from wedding, softball game and a random church music festival. Baseball is back on my mind, but first a shower. Also wondering how smart I could actually be when with a bad back I insisted on moving furniture around late last night. Duh. SB, you grab the groceries and I'll make dinner. Good afternoon preachers and pals! 4pm and just back from a very emotionally and logisticaly complicated multi-part funeral. Oh my... I am bone tired and still have a wedding dance to attend tonight. Rev Dr. Kate is supposed to be there too so that is a good motivator. I have not. a. word. written for Sunday. Planned to go with Great Commission which I suspect my folks are also tired of hearing. Back at it This day has not gone as anticipated. I have just returned from three hours in the ER tending to a parishioner who fell. I found her at the foot of a small flight of stairs, called the peramedics, and stayed with her in the hospital. She has a fracture from the base of her skull up and around to the front of her skull, with internal bleeding on the brain. They are going in to do surgery, the outlook is grave. Please hold Lucille in your prayers, me, and this congregation...she is one of the true pillars and saints of the church. So I have my sermon in my head and on paper, but. Not sure my brain will me calm enough to remember it. Oh Terri - how traumatic and surreal. Holding Lucille in the light and you as you comfort an anxious congregation in the morning. Celeste and Terri ~ holding each of you in prayer on this difficult day. kathrynzj ~ ouch! ElastiGirl and semfem and Rainbow Pastor ~ Your ideas about God's relational nature are intriguing to me. Any chance we'll get to see them on your blogs? Rev Nancy ~ What a very special thing to remember and share on Fathers Day. mid-life rookie ~ Congrats on your first wedding! I use something called Prepare/Enrich which I found out about in seminary and got certified in soon after that. It has worked well for me. Some others out there might know of other good resources. RevDrMom ~ Send that sermon fairy over this way when you see her, please! I could use a serious dusting of inspiration and energy. I just took a nap that has left me groggy and a little grumpy. More iced tea, anyone? Terri, I'm so sorry about your parishioner. Will hold her and you in my prayers. Celeste, am with you in thought and deed. Not a word yet. My solace--it's only mid-afternoon. Am chanting the service tomorrow. Haven't chanted in two years. Am looking forward to it but also know I have some practicing to do. Thanks, Jan, for the nod to ordinary season--standing at the threshold. kzj, burritos or pasta? Got home in the middle of rainstorm that turned to hailstorm and now to sunshower, if you can call it that when it's both bright and pouring. Weird! Terri, I'm so sorry about Lucille and will join my prayers to yours. Terri, prayers for Lucille and all of you. Relationships indeed...you all are bound to one another, and you all are affected by this. This is the 3rd Saturday (out of the last 4) which I have had a presbytery meeting. I really enjoy my work on the Committee on Ministry, but will be glad for a free Saturday. Next Saturday is our presbytery meeting...and then a breather. I am using Psalm 8 and the Matthew text but the sermon is all about the Trinity. It is a more practical type sermon. Primary Colors. What a diverse group we are...and yet we too...are one! back at hospital to administer prayers for the dying. very sad...she will not make it... back at hospital to adminnster prayers for the dying. Lucille has taken a turn for the worst and will not make it. pray her daughter arrives safely, making a six hour drive to get here.. Oh, Terri. Praying. Praying here, too. Come, Lord Jesus. Terri, oh my! May you and those you serve find strength and peace in knowing you are held in our prayers. Welcome, Purple! Congrats on sermon done! I have been writing. Not sure how close I am to the big finish. Don't forget to hydrate. I have cold filtered water so fill 'er up! Terri, I am so sorry. You and Lucille are in my prayers. This will certainly change your services tomorrow. I haven't thought about Father's Day much and won't do anything during the service other than at announcements. I remember when my dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, I was one of only two people in my office (there were about 18 of us) who still had their dad. That was 17 years ago. When I visited my dying aunt today, we were telling stories and I had a few about my dad that really got her laughing. So I think today was my Father's Day. About tomorrow's sermon. I am thinking I might start with a bit from Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition skit. "Our chief weapon is fear and surprise...Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency" and so on, the point being that whenever we begin to speak about the Trinity, we get tripped up. Also, I do think I will use something from the Textweek piece about Three is not Enough, if for no other reason than it points to the fact that we aren't the only ones who experience God in more than one way. And I like one of the exegeses from FOTW that points to the presence of Son and Spirit (light and breath) at the beginning. So it might be a cacophony of ideas but it won't confuse them any more than they already are! Good night all. I am signing off the computer for the next 12 hours just to prove I can. Terri, prayers for Lucille and her daughter, and for you as you minister to them. I have 700 words and no clear sense of where I'm going with them at a time of night when I am generally done. Argh. I thought preaching on the great commission would be easier than the trinity but apparently not so much. I did have some wonderful grilled veggies and grilled peaches for dinner, cooked by my son. Lovely. Oh my word! Wrote those two anonymous posts from the ICU waiting room while they moved Lucille from the ER to ICU. Prayed the prayers at the end of life. So sad. Home now trying to slow down after an intense six hours...breathe, take small bites of a quick dinner, chew slowly...then back to,what was it? Oh right...finishing up that homily.... Than you for the prayers, I so appreciate them! terri, such a sad day. Will you be breaking the news tomorrow or will most people know? Prayers ascending. Those who know this church better than I suggest I tell folks tomorrow. The news will deeply impact the early service where I will tell folks first thing. I'll wait until the announcement time at the later service. But now I need to rethink the tone of my homily, not so light hearted for the early service, even if most of the content will be the same... Oh, Terri, what a tough day for you. Yippee! for Ramona. I'm back at my circuit riding gig for tomorrow. Preaching on the Trinity, which is more than my exhausted brain can think about, unfortunately. Two-day Presbytery meeting out of town. I took the two Baboos, neither of whom slept well at the hotel. Consequently, I slept hardly at all. And we have some energy-draining houseguests this weekend. My sermon is partially done, but is going off in about 6 different directions. Trying to stick to my point, if I could figure out what it is. Terri, I think kzj used the word surreal earlier to describe your day, and it only got more that way. I'm so sorry. I've posted a draft of my sermon, which I hope makes sense: Out of Chaos. This comment has been removed by the author. I am writing! Finally! Yay! sounds like a few people are having a difficult day or week. Prayers for you all. I showed a DVD from our denominational body this morning, and I was reminded by some people how little they know of the church beyond the congregation - which means they found the DVD interesting. Hope those who aren't finished writing will be soon. How's everyone doing? Who's a night owl? A big cheer for those who have finished already. I'm looking forward to looking at all of your posted sermons after I get mine closer to finished. It's getting there. Anyone need anything? Coming in late, but here. Had a car wash/ hot dog sale with the youth today...A very successful one. We are pleased with their work and money raised. I am preaching on Epistle text with the title(via TextWeek and William Loader), " How to End a Letter." This is a very timely text for our congregation, they too are a little contentious. Had to call in some help and a called session meeting to deal with the truly contentious ones. Anyhow, I feel that we are going on the up side, for a lot of reasons. Money is looking a lot better, some have chosen to go a different way, and others are choosing to be with us in the "Peace, Unity and Purity" of the church. But now, the sermon comes to me. Some tough stuff to say, but needs to be said/ Oh, and telling story of Betty Lou Blue for the children's time. See text week, under children for this one! Any one want a hot dog?? They are half price now! Also, have Skinny Cows! Great news Ramona!!!!! So happy for you!!! Blessings I posted my little reflection, riddles and all I had hoped to preach it without a text but this day has been too crazy for me to internalize it...so, I'll be using my iPad, I suspect... Again, thank you for the prayers. I'm going to take a shower, make my be with the clean bed linens I have managed to get washed even with all the craziness of the day, and call it a night. Prayers and blessings for all of you! And Terri, Prayers for you, my friend. So hard and difficult. Hugs I just wrote "The Trinity is hidden in its own mystery." It's either brilliant or completely meaningless, and at this point, I can't tell the difference. I do not want to be a night owl. I do not want to be a night owl. I do not want to be a night owl. esperanza, honey, it's poetic. And so is the Trinity. I like it. Terri, you are in my heart and in my prayers. Prayers for your church and Lucille's family. Mumpastor, you are also in my heart and in my prayers. Goodbyes can be so bitter sweet. Good night all. May the Holy Spirit lift you as you all preach and teach tomorrow. Oh, that sounds good! Thanks, Songbird. And thanks for calling me "honey," it's very soothing. I heard that night owl anxiety, and it just slipped out. :-) Glad it was okay! SB, I like what you did with the Trinity! I have a draft--not in love with it, but it is what it is at this point. We have a baptism tomorrow and that seems like a good opportunity to reflect on the Great Commission--how daunting it feels to be sent out to make disciples when we're not always sure how to be disciples ourselves. And then playing off some things I got from FotW and Working Preacher, I suggest that we think of discipleship as an internship. Hoping it will work when I actually preach it. But now I'm going to clean up the kitchen. OK, I have 13 words. 10 of them are the header. MOVING FORWARD STRONGLY, here... Thanks, RDM. I work up more nervousness when people I know who don't usually attend are coming to worship. I had a hard time getting out of the way and letting the Spirit work. Which I hope I finally did. 1049 words! vroom vroom! trying not to get stalled! Going with a chord as an illustration. Just need to get here super early to get things set up with the musicians... Mumpastor, late prayers for you. I was just in a similar position, trying to say goodbye and prepare for the move. It's very difficult (I'm still not done!). Sharon, in response to your invitation...my blog is not really operational right now...I do hope it's all right that I come and hang out and glean bits of wisdom (and try to help whenever possible) without posting a sermon afterwards! Rambler, you are cracking me up. Semfem! Thank you! That's a perfect idea! semfem ~ Yes, indeed, you are welcome to sermonize without posting! I was just encouraging those who will post theirs. I have a blog and I don't always post mine either. Crimson Ramber ~ You're on a roll! RevDrMom ~ Internship, yes! I am also working with disciples making disciples. There's so much there, isn't there? 1-4 Grace ~ I'm not happy with my children's thing for tomorrow so I'll have to check out Betty Lou Blue. Thanks for the snacks! God-Guurrlll & Terri ~ Good night and thanks for your prayers for all of us. Starting to wonder how well the brain is working but I still have some tweaking to do. Onward! kzj - - I was secretly THRILLED when no one made any requests this winter when I tried to do sermons by request during the long ordinary time. I loved the idea, but I feared the requests. Celebrating with Ramona and sighing deeply with Terri. I have a "main idea" that came to me on the interstate in downtown neighboring city yesterday. That is a rough place to get an idea that you don't want to lose! 55 mph curving alongside exit and entrance ramps is NOT conducive to writing a quick note. (No lectures, please) Anyway, I got it jotted down AND my kids safely to the zoo. Now I just need to turn it into a sermon. An illustration or two wouldn't hurt either. I'm preaching from Matthew and have no plans to work much with the Trinity. And actually I'm drawn very much to v. 17 with the doubting and worshiping even more than, or at least framing my reading of, the commission itself. What does it mean to go, make disciples, baptizing and teaching even while we doubt? The commission doesn't say "take a few classes, joint a few Bible studies, pray a whole lot and when you finally get it 'Go and make disciples....'" It says go even when you have doubts yourself. So if that is that case, what is it that we're teaching? What is the message we carry? To me it sounds like maybe what we're bringing is less black and white than what a lot of people hear. Maybe what we need to be doing is less declaring (need a better word for forceful insisting - - maybe insisting is it) and more searching - less judging and more welcoming - with less certitude and more wondering. Where I think I'm going here is that 1. We don't have to know or believe "enough" to go out and share our story in a way that invites others to see their own story, too. 2. How we share it and make disciples/learners can be (should be?) reflective of our own role as disciples - - those still learning, with as many or more questions as we have answers. Hmmmm...how to get there? So is the late night team working or rather partying? Terri, praying for you and your parishioner. You too Mumpastor. Esperanza, I love what you wrote and I think your hearers will understand. Anybody need anything? Praying for the late night team and those in the later time zones. Rev Dr Mom - - Are you suggesting the ideas I have (or at least something similar) are in the commentaries this week? FTLOG why didn't I start there? Maybe it's time to go search them out to see if I can find something that gets me putting words on page. Or wait - - is that a rabbit I see running across the screen? SheRev, thank you! You reminded me of an idea I had earlier in the week that had escaped me till now. Thanks, revabi. And thanks for the prayers. I'm feeling their power tonight. Crap! semfem! You just reminded me of the awesome Trinity sermon I heard last summer at a conference that used jazz as the theme for worship. The preacher and piano player did a WONDERFUL sermon on the Trinity with chords as the guiding metaphor - - fun stuff with dissonance and different kinds of chords and things like. I totally forgot I was going to tuck that away to use for Trinity Sunday. Oh well. Next year again. (Someone remind me, please?) Well SheRev, if it's any consolation I'm sure my sermon is no where NEAR as cool as what you just described. :) I have exactly 1300 words and it has an ending. Is it a sermon? Maybe! A bit more polishing and then we'll see. I'm calling the 1911 words a sermon, a bit of a long one. It says God and Jesus and Spirit and love and grace, so it can't be that bad. Now to see what other parts of the service I need to prepare. I have returned from many miles of travels to an uncompleted sermon and unprinted bulletins. I'm now going to the church to print the bulletin. I may or may not login there but I will be reading. Fear not RevGalNightOwls, you are not alone 100? Why do the comment counts not match? The popup window has a different count than the post on the main blog page. Questions that must be pondered when bulletins are not printed and sermons are not written. I wondered the same thing, vicar. Important issues that must be discussed! Right now! For your sake, I hope you're not in my time zone. I think I'm just about to finish it up. Can't print till morning, because the baby is asleep in the portable crib in the office, due to the houseguests. Ah, life. Glad you're finishing, esperanza. I think I'm finished too. A bit long but it will do. Just need to print and then head home, eat a quick bite of dinner, and sleep. Vicar and SheRev and any others still writing...may the Holy Spirit be with you! Blessings on all pondering, preaching, and proclamation. Vicar, Our minds are clearly in the same place. I do not want to admit how many times I have refreshed both pages trying to get them to match. Don't bother. It doesn't work. Still haven't even opened Word. I'm at that place where I feel like if I just had the write opening "way in" I could just pour this sermon out. Where or where is that thing? Welcome, night owls! I have a sermon -- Ministers -- ALL! SheRev, I'm also using Matthew text, no Trinity or other texts, and going with "we are ALL ministers because Jesus said so" or something like that. Vicar, hang in there! esperanza, sounds like you covered all the important bases. Speaking of bases, I don't remember seeing a baseball sermon around here anywhere. I hope kathrynzj got hers done! I'm going to hand this off to all of you late-late-nighters. Best wishes as you write and blessings as you bring God's word tomorrow. Party on! Done at last. Light and short. Good thing. The music person wants to use every verse of St. Patrick's Breastplate. (My boobs always hurt when they hear that hymn!) Terri, prayers are with you. Glad you have clean sheets and a liturgical tradition. The former will get you through the night. The latter the day. Blessings on you who are still at work. I left my sermon hours ago and had a fabulous day. Now I'm back to take a quick look at it again and render any "tweaks" that need to be done before I am off to bed. So glad to see I have some company. Prayers for you Terri, your congregation and Lucille's family. And thank you for your ministry to Lucille and her family. ALL RIGHT!! 1052 words, printed, and a million things left to do before bedtime. The long midsummer twilight fools me. It's here Playing a whole lot of Angry Birds and writing very few sermon words. Alright - - I think my first night on-call at the hospital for CPE at the ripe old age of 22 might serve as my opening illustration of feeling wholly inadequate (or Holy Inadequate? Could that be a sermon title) for the task before me. Do I have a "way in"? Yup, SheRev, that will work! Because at this point, just having **something** starts to feel like the goal! We had some friends over for dinner, not planned until mid-day, and it was delightful. It also got the house a bit more cleaned up, which feels really good. Sermon--really more of a creative engagement process--was all set up on Thursday, so I have thoroughly enjoyed today. I'm on vacation the next two Sundays, so I am hoping to let my brain slow down. Night owls, I hope your brains keep going, for as long as you need them to, and then that you are able to descend quickly into some blessed rest! She Rev, cpe stories are always great sermon fodder- especially if it is about your struggle. I am finished and going to grab a bowl of Lucky Charms on my way to bed. Feel free to grab some if you need them. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I had left the bulletins printed, folded, and waiting for the announcement insert. So I only had to print the insert and assemble. whew! now for that pesky sermon ... I think I'm not preaching what I thought I was going to ... but maybe I will ... either way it's on the Trinity Oooohhhh...Lucky Charms, or Chucky Larms as my dad used to say. That sounds perfect. I got my intro typed up and it does, if I may say so, beautifully set up the worship/doubt tension within the disciples. Woo-woo! Just in time to hit my midnight bedtime. Gonna throw some phrases down for my next couple of moves then hit the hay. I'll be back about 4:30 (CST) assuming I don't forget it's Sunday morning and hit snooze 3 or 4 times like I did last week. The baby doesn't seem to be sleeping well, so I hope that plan stays the same all night. Thanks for the encouragement. See the rest on the flip side. Blessings on all of you! I will be up with you She Rev. I am about done, but need time to look over, make final changes, and clear points. Have had Star Wars: Epi V on as background. When Yoda brings Luke's ship up out of the swamp, he totally looks like he is constipated. Just thinking that as I am tired and a little crazy now. I <3 Yoda! Opps. HEART The sermon and prayers are done! Of course, the printer ran out of ink. Thankfully there was a replacement one on hand. And, as an added bonus, the clothes of the last five days are now in the dryer! I'm going to bed. Blessings on your Sunday! Star Wars was on the TV when I went in the bedroom to go to bed. Of course it was. I changed it, though, since Star Wars is in my life in some way every other waking moment of every single day. I'm back to finish, having fully consciously pushed snooze 3 times. Living on the edge. Good morning to anyone who is still tweaking and buffing up! I'm still fussing with what I wrote. It's a privilege to share the joys and challenges of ministry with all of you. May this day be filled with blessings and joy for each of you! And may your ministry be blessed especially today. Good morning! I am tweaking, too. Trying to make sense of what I said about trying to make sense of the Trinity... Blessings to all of you today. Terri, thinking of you especially. Uh oh. It's 6:04 a.m. and I'm at that blah blah blah stage. Must. push. through. Good Morning Friends, Getting ready for church with my usual two cups of coffee and a last run through of my sermon. I'm so glad you are here. I appreciate you. Blessings, Bob and I watched Star Wars on tv yesterday on the Star Wars Marathon, so I say to you, may the force be with you today as you preach. I watched the King's Speech later in the day, and I say you too can face the fear and preach that difficult sermon. May the holy Spirit cover you and breath on the hearers of the word today. They never complain about a short one, right? That's the theory? That is indeed the theory, She Rev. And a good one, I might add. I actually, could say more, but I might make 'em mad. Anhow, I forgot to check in earlier, but I am here. Heading out in a bit. Hope all is well. The coffee is on and I have Special K with fresh berries, and of course, Fair Trade.

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. (Updated Sept. 19, 2011) Reprint Permission Information October 2009 Senior Scientist Before the Committee on Environmental Protection The New York City Council Hearing on the testing by the Department of Environmental Protection for the presence of pharmaceuticals and personal care products in the NYC drinking water supply Tuesday, October 27, 2009 Mr. Chairman and distinguished Members of the Committee: My name is Olga Naidenko, and I am a Senior Scientist at Environmental Working Group (EWG), a nonprofit research and advocacy organization based in Washington, DC; Ames, Iowa; and Oakland, California. We focus much of our research on potential health risks from chemical contamination of food, water, consumer products and the environment. With this testimony, we express our strong support for the proposed law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York that would require testing by the Department of Environmental Protection for the presence of pharmaceuticals and personal care products in the New York City drinking water supply and the effluent from wastewater treatment plants. We commend the Council for considering this important measure that will serve as an essential step toward protecting public health from potential adverse effects of life-long, cumulative exposure to mixtures of multiple pharmaceuticals and endocrine disrupting chemicals in drinking water. The presence of hundreds of unregulated pharmaceuticals and other synthetic chemicals in the nation’s surface, ground, waste and drinking water has been documented in studies done by the U.S. Geological Survey, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (U.S. EPA) and water utilities. Research demonstrates that although individual pharmaceuticals occur at relatively low levels, conventional wastewater treatment does not effectively remove them. This is cause for concern and a call for timely action. Below, we highlight three key areas of concern around pharmaceuticals in drinking water: Below we address these points in detail. 1. The full spectrum of pharmaceuticals and related contaminants in the New York City drinking water supply is currently unknown; this gap must be urgently addressed by annual water quality monitoring. The Associated Press investigation ("AP Probe Finds Drugs in Drinking Water," March 9, 2008) brought to the attention of the public what the scientific literature has been documenting for a decade – our waters are polluted with a mixture of synthetic chemicals that have been designed to have powerful effects at very low concentrations. Of especial concern are human and veterinary medicines such as steroids, antibiotics, anti-depressants and hormones, which find their way into wastewater due to pharmaceuticals excreted by the body; disposal of unused drugs; farm fields treated with biosolids (sewage sludge); manure from animals fed antibiotics that is used as fertilizer; and industrial discharge from pharmaceutical manufacturing (AP (Associated Press) 2008). There are no federal or state standards or monitoring requirements for the vast majority of these contaminants in drinking water or wastewater. While the health effects of these pharmaceuticals at therapeutic doses are relatively well-known, their ecological and public health impacts, especially their side effects and potential for synergism with other pollutants, remain to be addressed and cannot be dismissed (Jones 2003; Pringle 2008). Some studies have suggested that for individual pharmaceuticals, a person would have to drink hundreds of gallons of water to get anywhere near a medical dose (Caldwell 2009; Snyder 2008). However, no study has so far addressed the cumulative human health risk posed by the mixtures of pharmaceuticals that we may ingest on a daily basis (Benotti M.J. 2009; Focazio 2008; Kingsbury 2008; Kolpin 2002). Meanwhile, according to the U.S. EPA, many drug classes of concern are found in the nation’s water sources, including (U.S. EPA 2009b): Scientists do not yet understand what impact all of these water pollutants will have on human and environmental health. The presence of pharmaceuticals in the nation’s waters highlights the challenges we face from severe flaws in the nation’s current regulatory framework for water protection. The first step to address these challenges is to find out what pharmaceuticals and personal care products are actually found in the New York City drinking water supply. We strongly support the proposed law that would mandate annual water quality monitoring for the presence of pharmaceuticals and personal care products in treated wastewater discharged from the city’s wastewater treatment plants and in drinking water, including sampling at drinking water treatment plants serving the city, at monitoring wells for underground aquifers and at distribution sites of drinking water. With this law, New York will be able to devise a science-based policy by collecting real data on the occurrence of pharmaceuticals in drinking water sources and developing the necessary information for any mitigation steps that may be needed to avoid the risks to people and the environment. 2. The results of the testing must be fully disclosed in order to maintain the public’s confidence in the health and safety of their drinking water. Up to now, New York City residents have been fortunate to enjoy some of the best drinking water in the world, well known for its purity and good taste. Yet, both water quality and public trust in the water that comes from the tap cannot be taken for granted. In addition to a pro-active testing program, protecting public confidence in the health and safety of drinking water requires transparency about the findings, particularly with respect to pharmaceutical contaminants that usually cannot be seen, tasted or smelled, yet may exert powerful effects on health. Infants and others who are vulnerable may be especially at risk from these involuntary exposures. Members of the public do not want to wake up in the morning and read about anti-convulsive medication in their tap water. Hundreds of news stories around the country on pharmaceutical contaminants in drinking water clearly indicate the intense interest that all Americans feel about this issue. Snippets of data will not be sufficient to allay these concerns; instead, full disclosure is needed. Drinking water utilities are supportive of this disclosure. The Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies, an organization of metropolitan drinking water suppliers had made the following statement in March 2008: "Water utilities should take steps to keep their consumers informed of their efforts to monitor and remove pharmaceuticals from water sources. Just as water utilities need data to make informed decisions, we believe that consumers should have the information they need to make personal health decisions" (Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies 2008). Because utilities often do not disclose the presence of unregulated contaminants in tap water, and because there is no national, centralized source of information on tap water contamination, Environmental Working Group maintains a National Tap Water Quality database where people can find out what urban, industrial, or agricultural pollutants may be present in their drinking water (EWG 2005). The water quality testing data in our database have been obtained from records that state health and environmental departments obtain from drinking water utilities and include tests conducted by utilities for more than 44,000 communities nationwide. The drug residues in tap water join hundreds of other synthetic chemicals Americans are exposed to daily, as contaminants in food, water, air and in common consumer products. Yet, we only have data on chemicals that are tested for by utilities. Only limited information is available about pharmaceuticals because very few tests are performed and even fewer are disclosed to the public. All of the pharmaceuticals reported in drinking water supplies are unregulated in treated tap water -- any level is legal. Not only have the U.S. EPA and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration failed to set standards for pharmaceuticals in water, but also they have failed to require mandatory testing for these chemicals. This situation needs to be remedied on the federal level (Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies 2008). According to the research articles published on the subject, there is a large range of concentrations at which pharmaceuticals, personal care product chemicals and endocrine disrupting compounds are present in water; there is also significant variation in the combinations of chemicals that are found at specific locations. Arguments are sometimes made that pharmaceuticals in drinking water pose little human or environmental health risk because they get diluted over the entire water supply (Grumbles 2008). This may be true for the majority of people; yet, people are exposed not to generalized risks but to specific, local risks and this information must be provided to the public. We strongly support the provision of the proposed law that would require the mayor to submit to the council an annual report on the results of water quality testing. We also urge the city to make these data publicly available via the Department of Environment Protection website. This degree of transparency is essential in order to maintain public confidence in the quality of drinking water. 3. The development of appropriate, economically feasible plans for the protection of the drinking water and for ensuring the survival and thriving of aquatic life requires a robust dataset on the occurrence of pharmaceutical contaminants in water sources. The occurrence of pharmaceuticals in the nation’s waters is a complex problem and requires a comprehensive multi-faceted response by policy makers, drinking water- and wastewater utilities, pharmaceutical industry, scientists and individual citizens. No individual group can solve the problem single-handedly. Moreover, they are all united by one common need: need for data. Traditional wastewater systems are designed to treat microorganisms and nutrients, not pharmaceuticals and other synthetic compounds found in the studies across the country. Advanced treatments such as ozonation, granulated activated carbon, UV treatment and advance oxidation process can remove significant amounts of pharmaceuticals but are expensive (Benotti M. J. 2009; Gerrity 2009; Rossner 2009). Ozonation can remove many pharmaceuticals (Broseus 2009) but it is associated with the production of toxic byproducts (Stalter 2009). Activated carbon filtration and other absorbents may be a good alternative treatment (Rossner 2009), although the costs tend to be higher (Joss 2008). To resolve these challenges, several water utilities in the US and a number of groups in Europe are actively involved in researching wastewater treatments that can remove pharmaceuticals (Gunnarsson 2009; Joss 2008; Radjenovic 2008; Southern Nevada Water Authority 2008). In order to make the treatment process as cost-effective as possible, we have to know what pharmaceuticals are most commonly found in water sources; which ones of them pose the greatest health risks; where they primarily released; how they are transported through the water supply; and what treatments are most effective in removing individual contaminants. There is a great need for research on treatment technology upgrades that industrial dischargers, large urban dischargers such as hospitals and nursing homes, wastewater systems and drinking water utilities can use to remove drugs from water (Pringle 2008). It is also important to look at the risks posed by pharmaceutical pollutants to the aquatic life and thus, indirectly, to people. Studies by the U.S. EPA and academic scientists found that pharmaceuticals and personal care product chemicals can and do accumulate in fish and other aquatic animals (Brooks 2005; Chu 2007; U.S. EPA 2009c). In a recently published study, EPA researchers detected a range of pollutants in fish: diphenylhydramine (antihistamine); norfluoxetine and sertraline (antidepressants); other pharmaceuticals as well as galaxolide and tonalide, synthetic fragrances frequently added to personal care products (Ramirez 2009). These studies were of sufficient concern to the EPA, prompting the Agency to embark on a national survey of pharmaceuticals in 150 randomly-selected urban river sites across the country (U.S. EPA 2009a). We do not know what would be the human health outcome of cumulative exposure to pharmaceuticals in water and in fish for people who are active in recreational fishing, a common pastime for many people who live in New York City and its suburbs. Exposure to toxic levels of water contaminants that accumulate in fish is a well-recognized public health problem for pollutants such as polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) and mercury (Fitzgerald 2007) In order to forestall any potential human health problems due to pharmaceuticals in fish, it would be highly desirable to monitor the potential effects of pharmaceutical pollution on aquatic life and to ensure that these contaminants would not pose an adverse impact on aquatic ecosystems (Batt 2008; Molander 2009; Swedish Foundation for Strategic Environmental Research (Mistra) 2009). Aquatic species often serve as sentinels for human health (Kostich 2008). For example, it would take a lot of estrogen to cause an acute health effect. In contrast, low-level, chronic exposure to estrogenic pollutants in water has been associated with health effects as severe as gender change, such as feminization of male fish (Caldwell 2008; Tyler 2009). Clearly, this is not the type of severe change that we would be willing to accept with respect to human health. By ensuring that the levels of pharmaceutical pollutants are safe for aquatic life, we will make a significant investment in the protection of human health as well, a key decision that will be greatly appreciated by our own children. Ultimately, we would need to capture as much pollution as we can at the source by implementing pollution prevention and protection of water supplies (American Water Works Association (AWWA) 2008; Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies 2008). The options may include environmentally friendly design of the waste stream, labeling of pharmaceuticals according to their proper disposal strategies, support for proper pharmaceutical disposal programs and treatment of significant point sources of pharmaceutical discharge into the wastewater (Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies 2008; Joss 2008; Pringle 2008; Snyder 2008). These programs should be implemented in parallel with water quality testing and development of additional treatment infrastructure at wastewater plants. We all know that bottled water is not a solution to concerns about pharmaceuticals in tap water: bottled water is much more expensive; it is drawn largely from the same sources as public tap water supplies; and it is associated with immense amounts of plastic waste (EWG 2008). Yet, for the public to not turn to bottled water, we need to focus on pollution prevention, data collection and disclosure and developing appropriate mitigation treatments. Environmental Working Group congratulates the City Council for moving forward with this important legislation and we are glad to be of any assistance in accomplishing this task. References American Water Works Association (AWWA). 2008. Available: [accessed October 23 2009]. AP (Associated Press). 2008. An AP investigation: Pharmaceuticals Found in Drinking Water. PHARMAWATER-METROS-BY RESULTS. . Available: [accessed July 29 2008]. Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies. 2008. AMWA Discusses Pharmaceuticals in Water Supplies. Available: [accessed October 23 2009]. Batt AL, Kostich MS, Lazorchak JM. 2008. Analysis of ecologically relevant pharmaceuticals in wastewater and surface water using selective solid-phase extraction and UPLC-MS/MS. Anal Chem 80(13): 5021-30. Benotti MJ, Stanford BD, Wert EC, Snyder SA. 2009. Evaluation of a photocatalytic reactor membrane pilot system for the removal of pharmaceuticals and endocrine disrupting compounds from water. Water Res 43(6): 1513-22. Benotti MJ, Trenholm RA, Vanderford BJ, Holady JC, Stanford BD, Snyder SA. 2009. Pharmaceuticals and Endocrine Disrupting Compounds in U.S. Drinking Water. Environ Sci Technol 43(3): 597-603. Brooks BW, Chambliss CK, Stanley JK, Ramirez A, Banks KE, Johnson RD, et al. 2005. Determination of select antidepressants in fish from an effluent-dominated stream. Environ Toxicol Chem 24(2): 464-9. Broseus R, Vincent S, Aboulfadl K, Daneshvar A, Sauve S, Barbeau B, et al. 2009. Ozone oxidation of pharmaceuticals, endocrine disruptors and pesticides during drinking water treatment. Water Res 43(18): 4707-17. Caldwell DJ, Mastrocco F, Hutchinson TH, Lange R, Heijerick D, Janssen C, et al. 2008. Derivation of an aquatic predicted no-effect concentration for the synthetic hormone, 17 alpha-ethinyl estradiol. Environ Sci Technol 42(19): 7046-54. Caldwell DJ, Mastrocco F, Nowak E, Johnston J, Yekel H, Pfeiffer D, et al. 2009. An Assessment of Exposure to Prescribed Estrogens in Drinking Water. Environ Health Perspec: in press. Chu S, Metcalfe CD. 2007. Analysis of paroxetine, fluoxetine and norfluoxetine in fish tissues using pressurized liquid extraction, mixed mode solid phase extraction cleanup and liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry. J Chromatogr A 1163(1-2): 112-8. EWG. 2005. Environmental Working Group: National Tap Water Quality Database. Available: [accessed May 21 2008]. EWG. 2008. Bottled Water Quality Investigation: 10 Major Brands, 38 Pollutants. Available: [accessed November 10 2008]. Fitzgerald EF, Belanger EE, Gomez MI, Hwang SA, Jansing RL, Hicks HE. 2007. Environmental exposures to polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) among older residents of upper Hudson River communities. Environ Res 104(3): 352-60.. Gerrity D, Stanford BD, Trenholm RA, Snyder SA. 2009. An evaluation of a pilot-scale nonthermal plasma advanced oxidation process for trace organic compound degradation. Water Res: in press.]. Gunnarsson L, Adolfsson-Erici M, Bjorlenius B, Rutgersson C, Forlin L, Larsson DG. 2009. Comparison of six different sewage treatment processes--reduction of estrogenic substances and effects on gene expression in exposed male fish. Sci Total Environ 407(19): 5235-42. Jones OA, Voulvoulis N, Lester JN. 2003. Potential impact of pharmaceuticals on environmental health. Bull World Health Organ 81(10): 768-9. Joss A, Siegrist H, Ternes TA. 2008. Are we about to upgrade wastewater treatment for removing organic micropollutants? Water Sci Technol 57(2): 251-5. Kingsbury JA, Delzer GC, Hopple JA. 2008. Anthropogenic Organic Compounds in Source Water of Nine Community Water Systems that Withdraw from Streams, 2002–05. U.S. Geological Survey Scientific Investigations Report 2008–5208. Available: [accessed December 10. Kostich MS, Lazorchak JM. 2008. Risks to aquatic organisms posed by human pharmaceutical use. Sci Total Environ 389(2-3): 329-39. Molander L, Gerstrand M, Ruden C. 2009. WikiPharma - A freely available, easily accessible, interactive and comprehensive database for environmental effect data for pharmaceuticals. Regul Toxicol Pharmacol. Pringle D. 2008. Testimony of David Pringle, Campaign Director, New Jersey Environmental Federation on Behalf of: New Jersey Environmental Federation and Clean Water Action before the U.S. Senate Environment and Public Works Committee Subcommittee on Transportation Safety, Infrastructure Security and Water Quality "Pharmaceuticals in the Nation’s Water: Assessing Potential Risks and Actions to Address the Issue". Available: [accessed October 23, 2009]. Radjenovic J, Petrovic M, Ventura F, Barcelo D. 2008. Rejection of pharmaceuticals in nanofiltration and reverse osmosis membrane drinking water treatment. Water Res 42(14): 3601-10. Ramirez AJ, Brain RA, Usenko S, Mottaleb MA, O'Donnell JG, Stahl LL, et al. 2009. Occurrence of pharmaceuticals and personal care products (PPCPs) in fish: Results of a national pilot study in the U.S. Environ Toxicol Chem: in press. Rossner A, Snyder SA, Knappe DR. 2009. Removal of emerging contaminants of concern by alternative adsorbents. Water Res 43(15): 3787-96. Snyder SA. 2008. Statement of Dr. Shane Snyder, Southern Nevada Water Authority before the Senate Subcommittee on Transportaion Safety, Infrastructure Secury, and Water Quality on Pharmaceuticals in the Nation's Water: Assessing Potential Risks and Actions to Address the Issue. Available: [accessed October 23, 2009]. Southern Nevada Water Authority. 2008. Water Quality Research. Available: [accessed October 23 2009]. Stalter D, Magdeburg A, Weil M, Knacker T, Oehlmann J. 2009. Toxication or detoxication? In vivo toxicity assessment of ozonation as advanced wastewater treatment with the rainbow trout. Water Res. Swedish Foundation for Strategic Environmental Research (Mistra). 2009. MistraPharma Wiki Database. Identification and Reduction of Environmental Risks Caused by the Use of Human Pharmaceuticals. Available: [accessed October 23 2009]. Tyler CR, Filby AL, Bickley LK, Cumming RI, Gibson R, Labadie P, et al. 2009. Environmental health impacts of equine estrogens derived from hormone replacement therapy. Environ Sci Technol 43(10): 3897-904. U.S. EPA. 2009a. Expanded Investigations of Pharmaceuticals in Fish Tissue. Available: [accessed October 23 2009]. U.S. EPA. 2009b. Pharmaceuticals and Personal Care Products (PPCPs). Frequently Asked Questions. Available: [accessed October 23 2009]. U.S. EPA. 2009c. Pilot Study of Pharmaceuticals and Personal Care Products in Fish Tissue. Available: [accessed October 23 2009].

candidates can be divided into two sets such that the merit differences within each set are negligible in comparison to the merit difference between the sets. For the purposes of criteria, I've defined u/a in terms of voting, in a way that is consistent with the above definition involving 2 sets. And no, I won't re-post it. It's among the discussion of the possibility of a u/a FBC criterion, maybe roughly a week ago, give or take some days. Juho says: Also terms "compromise" [endquote] I refer Juho to a dictionary, if he wants to find out what "compromise" means. I've been using "Compromise" as the name of a candidate in some of my discussions, and in some of my criterion definitions. As such, for that purpose, the word needn't be defined, because it is a name, not a term. Juho says: , "acceptable" and "unacceptable" have to be defined. [endquote] As I've been saying, of the two sets referred to in the above-stated definition, the "acceptable set" is the one that the voter in question prefers to the other set. That other set is the "unacceptable set". An acceptable candidate is a candidate in the acceptable set. An unacceptable candidate is a candidate in the unacceptable set. [endquote] Does "rank Compromise alone in 1st place" mean lifting one of the candidates in the ranked vote to first place while keeping the others as they are? [endquote] If Juho doesn't know what it means to rank a candidate alone in 1st place, then I again refer him to a dictionary. Actually, this part of Juho's post didn't deserve a reply either. I answered it only because he's taken on a new tactic, one of asking for definitions. I don't want anyone to think that I'm not willing to supply definitions of terms that I use. But the definitions Juho asked for were each from one of two types: Definitions already posted by me; and definitions available in any dictionary. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < plain IIA for even 3 candidates. Note of course that the "up to N candidates" mathematically, means "up to N serious candidates" in practical terms. Real-world elections with more than 4 serious candidates are quite rare; and those that do exist are typically non-partisan and non-ideological, and thus do not exhibit interesting enough inter-candidate dynamics to result in the tightly-constrained pathologies that are possible. So I'd bet that in practice, full-ranking SODA would pass all of the above criteria over 99% of the time. More to come on this, as I try to work through the relevant proofs. Jameson [1] I really wish I had better terminology for this, "approvals using votes delegated to them" is a mouthful for what should ideally be a single word. ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < median, and then stay there. Do Condorcetists feel that electing candidates at the voter-median position isn't good enough? Plurality's problem, which causes it to keep on electing, at voting equilibrium, two unliked parties, will be gone when its forced falsification rule is repealed. ICT vs Condorcet: Voting instructions for ICT can correctly say: 1. There absolutely cannot be any reason or need to vote someone over your favorite. There can be no benefit from doing so. 2. Defection in the ABE is always a losing strategy. Support a mutual majority that you need to beat someone whom you want to beat. Just counting on their supporting your favorite, without mutuality, won't be enough, won't work. Since other voters know this, you can feel safe in supporting that mutual majority. 3. Offensive burial usually won't work. Condorcet cannot promise #1 and #2. Approval meets FBC, Intermediate FBC, and Strong FBC. ICT meets FBC and Intermediate FBC. Condorcet fails all three of those criteria. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < three-way race, the problems surface. Nonsense. With only 2 parties, it's entirely irrelevant which voting system is used. It's when there are more than two candidates that Approval's big advantages over Plurality and Condorcet are manifest. In contrast, in Condorcet the voters just rank. [endquote] ...if they don't know what they're doing. Or if the election is 0-info and non-u/a. Kristofer says: Black's theorem handles the rest [endquote] Kristofer, do you know what "hand-waving" is? You're hand-waving. Kristofer says: ** You seem to be more inclined to look at ballots in a strategic manner in general, I think. For instance, when you said that you would only use a few ranks in (some Bucklin variant I don't remember), that struck me as quite strange. Are not ranked ballots expressions of preferences? No - not if they're primarily *strategic*. [endquote] That's right. If you're voting in your best instrumental interest, then that's different from if you merely want to express your sincere preferences. Decide which it is that you want to do. Kristofer says: My initial puzzlement was at how you directly jumped to the instrumental point of view. [endquote] American and British voters have shown that they nearly all vote instrumentally, in order to help a "lesser-evil". There are some times when non-instrumental voting is called for. 1. In some of the solutions to the defection problem. 2. In Plurality, where instrumental voting requires unavailable information about where we should combine our support. Of course it could be reasonably argued that our Plurality elections are really 0-info, in which case sincere voting _is_ the instrumentally best expectation-maximizing strategy. Otherwise, yes, I would vote instrumentally. Approval strategy is a difficult problem. What should we do? I tell people to just vote for their genuine favorite. As I said, our elections are really 0-info anyway, and so sincere voting is the best instrumental strategy therefore. If we could all vote sincerely in this year's Plurality election, then we'd know where we stand, and what our best strategy is in subsequent ones. But no, people are going to do their usual lesser-evil giveaway. I've suggested that we pick relatively unimportant state elections. Have the non-Republocrat parties run in those elections, and let's use those to find out the actual numbers. I've suggested that progressive parties and organizations do some polling, nationally. The sample would be limited, but the results could be meaningfully aggregated for a national estimate. Count by ICT. Then, give advice, to everyone who wants something better than the Democrat, to vote for that ICT winner. ...or do a voting rights lawsuit to repeal Plurality's forced falsification requirement. As I've said, the result is called "Approval voting". I'd vote instrumentally in Approval. Sincere and strategic voting would be the same for me, because it is a u/a election. In Plurality, if there is no organization, agreements or polling, I believe in sincere voting. Sincere voting is instrumentally optimal for Plurality in 0-info elections. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < regular voters or parties can use will do, either for Approval or Condorcet, either expectation-maximizing or other strategy that is expected to improve the outcome. But so far I have thus not seen any (lots of u/a discussion though but no general strategy for all situations). [endquote] No general strategy is known for Condordet. The general expectation-maximizing strategy of Approval is the better-than-expectation strategy. Juho says: I got the two numeric examples though. Thanks for them. At least one of them didn't however seem to work well enough, so I assume that the theory and strategy behind those examples is not quite well thought yet. [endquote] As usual you're vague. I have no idea what examples you're referring to. If you want to say that one of them isn't good enough, then you need to clearly specify it, and then tell what's wrong with it, and why you think so. But I fully admit that expectation-maximizing strategy isn’t known for Condorcet in most typical situations. It isn’t that Condorcet doesn’t need strategy. It’s just that you don’t know what the expectation-maximizing strategy is. But don’t feel bad—no one else does either. In theory there are cases where one could cheat the system. But in practice sincerity is by far the best strategy that voters have in large elections where voters make independent decisions. The challenge is to find practical situations where regular voters, after hearing some poll results (and possibly some poll based situation specific strategic advices by the media), would have good reason to vote otherwise (in a way that they can master an that is likely to improve the outcome). [endquote] I described one to you, and no, I’m not going to repeat it. I don’t have time to keep repeating things for you. Sorry, I don't recall, or maybe didn't identify the the general solution when I read it. You might point that out to help my poor memory. :-) [endquote] No, sorry, I don't have time for that. I've repeated it enough already. I refer you to my previous replies. I’ve abundantly and sufficiently discussed that. It’s time to just agree to disagree. Ok. My statement is pretty well covered above. My assumption is that you wll stick to the claim that there are often working strategies in Condorcet [endquote] …unknown ones, yes. But I described a strategy for a particular situation, showing that sometimes favorite-burial is optimal in Condorcet. If you describe a theoretical vulnerability or a practical strategy for some specific situation, and the strategy is intended for regular people or parties, then it can be made a general and usable strategy by adding some criteria that tell the voters when that strategy should be applied. [endquote] Fine. Then do so. Write a general strategy for Condorcet :-) Juho says: That would make the strategy a working strategy (although not necessarily a strategy that would work often). [endquote] Then it wouldn't be a general strategy, would it. , and voters would be foolish toassume that they can generally vote sincerely. [endquote] Correct. Two: In Approval, if you like strategy, I’ve given simple instructions for determining the way of voting that maximizes your expectation. I’ve described it for u/a elections, ………..and for non-u/a elections. I'd be interested in the one (or ones) that the regular voters are supposed to follow in real life Approvan elections. [endquote] Any one of them that they like, or any one of them that makes use of the information, perception or feel possessed by the voter. Yes, in real life Approval elections. That was not an answer. A concrete strategy please. [endquote] No, actually that is an answer. I’ll repeat it again for you: Look at the last part of my Approval article. If you feel that some part of the strategy suggestions there are insufficiently “concrete”, then tell me what it is that you need more details about. Ask a specific question. Ok, but which Approval article? [endquote] The one that I posted to EM. The one that is at Democracy Chronicles. You said: You mentioned also sincere approval of "approvable" canddates as a strategy that could be recommended to the voters. Do you think Approval can handle well situations where some voters or voter groups are strategic while some are sincere? [endquote] It’s easy to show strategizers taking advantage of sincere suckers in Range or Majority Judgment. Maybe you’re saying that you fear that if you approve the candidates you like, then the supporters of one of them will take advantage of you by approving the candidates that they perceive as acceptable, above-mean, or better-than-expectation. Sorry, but I don’t see it. If you think that there’s a problem there, then you need to explain what and why. Simple example: 2: A>B>>C 1: B>>A>C If the first group of voters approves sincerely A and B, B will win. Ins't this a good enough reason for the first group to vote strategically and place the approval cutoff between the two potential winners? That is, if they want to win and not just elect the most approved candidate. [endquote] If you’ve approved some candidates whom you like, and one of them wins, then I guess that I’m not quite understanding what your problem is. If, on the other hand, you prefer to vote strategically, then of course you should do so. Juho says: The problem is that we usually talk about competitive political elections where all the players want to win. [endquote] You need to clarify, with yourself, what you mean, what you want. Do you mean that you only want your favorite to win? Then, in Approval, approve hir only. If you want to maximize your expection, I've told Approval strategy for that purpose. Juho says: Few lines above you assumed that people would use their burying possibilities to the maximum. [endquote] Available evidence indicates that many voters would do whatever it takes to maximally help Democrat against Republican. Juho says: I don't understand why in this case voters would be indifferent with respect to the outcome of the election. [endquote] If you're asking about favorite-burial need in Approval, there is none. Those same voters wouldn't favorite-bury in Approval because it is transparently obvious that there can be no reason to do so. But if you're questioning the assumption that people wouldn't strategize in Approval, I merely suggest voting for all whom you like. If you want to, you can strategize. Suit yourself. Juho says: Maybe you recommend Approval as a good method for non-competitive elections. [endquote] ...and for competitive elections. As for the defection problem, we’ve discussed it before, and the fact that Approval has ways of dealing with it, and the fact that Condorcet fully has that problem too. Disagreed. I don't know how Approval can handle it. [endquote] I posted some solutions some months ago. I’ll find that posting and re-post it. Thanks. But my suggestions included Forest’s solution in which the A voters give to B only enough approvals such that if C’s favoriteness-percentage is as estimated, then the larger of {A,B} will win. In Approval that would be done probabilistically. The A voters tell the B voters that they should do the same, if they don’t want C to win, and if the A faction might be bigger than the B faction. No, not perfect, due to imperfect predictive information, but still helpful. Without exactly knowing what the strategy is, I note that in practical elections there may be some problems with making the voters vote in line with the strategy. [endquote] The strategy is as described above. Any difficulty in following it would be likewise encountered when it is needed in Condorcet. One more thing in my mind. Regular voters may be interested only in the outcome of this election and never mind if their opponents get angry. [endquote] Fine, with Tit-For-Tat in use, the B voters will keep defecting, and so will the A voters. But the B voters will know that as soon as the co-operate, so will the A voters. Anyway, Forest's suggested solution has its effect in the current election. The non-secretness of a faction's voting intentions is also relevent to the current election. This claim was just a reflection of your idea that Approval could "maximize expectation". [endquote] Nonsense. We haven’t been speaking of some methods that maximize expectation. We’ve been speaking of expectation-maximizing strategies. It’s been established and agreed on EM that the strategies that I’ve described do indeed maximize expectation in Approval. "agreed on EM" :-) [endquote] Correct. And many special cases of, implementations of, the better-than-expectation strategy have been well-known for a long time in the broader voting system discussion. Juho says: Are there multiple such strategies? [endquote] As I've already repeated for you many time, there is one expectation-maximizing strategy for Approval: Vote for the candidates who are better than expectation. That strategy can be implemented directly, or via various implementations that are special cases of it. This time, pay attention, because I'm not going to repeat that for you again. Juho says: Does that mean that each voter can pick his favourite, and they work well in sync that way? [endquote] Yes to both questions. Pick whichever implementation you like or have the information or intuitive feel for. Remember that they're just special cases of the same strategy. Maybe better to focus on concrerte practcal strategic vulnerabilities (unless there is something more in this). [endquote] So focus on it then, instead of just making a vague reference to it. What should I provide? I'm willing to be more concrete if you tell me what you want. [endquote] In general, what you should provide is the specifics of what you mean. You never do that, and no doubt you never will. That's why talking to you is a waste of time. In particular, in this instance, you speak of focusing on concrete practical strategic vulnerabilities. I suggested that you specify and focus on one. Juho says: I'd like you to point out concrete and practical strategies for real life elections for both or either of the methods. [endquote] I've written this sentence many times for you: I've pointed out a practical expectation-maximizing strategy for certain conditions in Condorcet elections. I've pointed out that no general strategy is known for Condorcet. I've suggested concrete and practical strategies for real life elections with Approval. I've told you where to find them. I won't repeat it for you again. I refer you to my previous replies, and to my Approval article. The one that I posted to EM fairly recently. The one that is at Democracy Chronicles. And in addition you say that any (your listed) strategy is ok. Why so? Is there no good working strategy that all could use? [endquote] Yes there is. The better-than-expectation strategy. As I’ve said here many times, all of the Approval expectation-maximizing strategies for Approval are special cases of better-than-expectation. I don't have a full description of that strategy yet. [endquote] I've repeated it for you many times, and told you where to find it. I've helped you all I can. You're wasting my time. The direct implementation of better-than-expectation could just consist of approving the candidates who are better than (or maybe exactly as good as) the result-merit that you expect from the election. Juho says: Is this the definition of the better-than-expectation strategy for regular voters? [endquote] It's for any voter, regular or otherwise, who wants to vote strategically in Approval. Juho says: Does "or maybe" mean random selection or selection based on what the voter feels like that day? [endquote] I said "(or maybe exactly as good as)" because approving a candidate who is exactly as good as your expectation doesn't affect your expectatation. It doesn't matter whether or not you approve a candidate who is exactly as good as your expectation. You can flip a coin, or yes, go by how you feel that day. Juho says: Does "result-merit that you expect" mean the value of the (single) guessed winner or maybe the weighted average of potential winners? [endquote] Answer to both questions: Yes, if that's what you feel that you know, or have a perception or feel about. People are not going to determine their expectation in the election by multiplying the win probability of each candidate by hir utility, and summing the products. But you can do that if you want to. But you know how good a result you expect from the election. Juho says: Does the expectation refer to the sincere opinions or does it include the expected strategic voting too (much more complicated and cyclic)? [endquote] ...if you want it to. Do as complicated and elaborate an analysis as you want to, to try to calculate your expectation. It isn't for me to tell you if or how to calculate your expectation, if you want to calculate it. That's your business. But, as I said above, you know how good a result you expect from the election. Or, if you really don't, then just use the 0-info Approval strategy of approving the above-mean candidates. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < solutions make you (in Approval) not approve E, or (in ICT) move E down to 2nd place. For instance, maybe E is only barely or marginally acceptable. &/or maybe, perhaps due to things said by E supporters and organization, there's doubt about whether E really would implement hir good platform policies or campaign promises. In a u/a election, to justify the non-approval or the 2nd place demotion of E, A,B,C, or D should have a (good?) chance of winning. If E is clearly the big favorite among {A,B,C,D,E}, and the only one winnable, then you don't want to do the non-approval or demotion. I'm assuming that E is at least marginally acceptable in a u/a election. Even if E supporters attack or continually bad-talk A,B,C and D, that isn't a practical reason to not approve E or to demote E to 2nd, if E's platform would bring some genuine improvement, and is on the acceptable side. And if E's lesser improvements would result at least in a more open system, with more open and honest media, better media and ballot access, etc., that would be a start toward better improvement, no matter how much E's supporters are criticizing A, B, C, and D. Later, with E elected, if things aren't good, then of course E is unlikely to get your full support next time, and the various C/D solutions would come into play if E remains marginally acceptable. Or maybe E has by then become unacceptable and wouldn't be considered for approval or top ranking. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < within the sets are negligible compared to the merit difference between the sets? In contrast, Approval's u/a strategy (as is its non-u/a strategy) is not only known, but is the simplest there is: Approve (only) all the acceptables. Yes, Condorcet has the consolation or compensation that, if the election isn't u/a, and if you don't much care about the results, then you can rank the candidates at as many rank positions as you want to. But sincere ranking would be a big mistake in a u/a election. And often in a non-u/a election too, if the result matters. Condorcet's supposed strategy-free-ness is only a sometimes, maybe, thing. And when it isn't that "sometime", then you _really_ don't know what to do. Approval voting is incomparably easier and simpler. Richard expressed the concern that, if Approval were enacted, then maybe people wouldn't be willing to later change to something else, and those who would like to go to something better wouldn't have the opportunity. In other words, if you don't enact Condorcet instead of Approval, before Approval, then you'll never get an opportunity to enact Condorcet. A valid concern. Valid to ask about, but not valid to be concerned about. Forgive me for repeating this: If Approval were enacted, there would be changes in government and society, such that the media would be incomparably more free and open. Campaign laws and ballot-access laws would be more fair. Political debates would be more inclusive. These things would result from a government that is more what the voters want. Also, for one thing, after the results of the first Approval election, it would no longer be as easy to exclude non-Republocrats from ballots, debates, editorial letters, articles, news coverage, airtime, etc. And it would be well-established that voting system improvement is possible, because it would be an observed fact. People would be open to it. People would know the subject of voting systems better than they do now. The environment would be _much_ more favorable to rank-balloting than it now is. Now, make no mistake: Condorcet, or rank-methods in general won't be easy, any time. But if they're ever do-able at all, then it will be when Approval has started the improvement and shown that there is such a thing as good voting system reform. .and shown the numerical importance of non-Republocrat candidates, voters and parties. So no, getting a fancier method won't be harder after Approval. That's when it will be possible, if it ever will. Any improvement would be a step. That's the spirit of the Declaration. That's why none of us should oppose eachother's proposals in any publication or forum other than here at EM. Fighting eachother and opposing eachother's proposals in public would be counterproductive, a ruinous hindrance to reform. Does it sound self-serving when I say that Approval should be the first step, the first proposal? I've told many times why Approval is so much more proposable, acceptable, enactable. Approval is literally the minimal change from Plurality that will get rid of Plurality's big fault. Approval is nothing more than the repeal of Plurality's ridiculous rule, the rule that makes Plurality a blatantly, bizarrely undemocratic points rating system. The desirability of that change is so obvious, as is the fact that it's an improvement and nothing other than an improvement, that Approval might even be enacted (Plurality's funny rule repealed) via a voting rights court ruling. Even if you think that Condorcet is enactable, you must agree that Approval's expected enactment time is much less than that of Condorcet. Do you really think that there's a reason to do without reform for a longer time? You want something more than Approval. So do I. I've been saying that all along. I want defection-resistance. It can be had in ICT, and probably in Kristofer's CC/ABE method proposals (but of course they don't meet FBC, but ICT does). So, when Approval has made genuine open discussion possible, you can propose Condorcet, and I'll propose ICT. You don't seem me proposing ICT now, do you? It would be something to ask for later. Though I'd prefer ICT, I'm now only suggesting to propose Approval, because that's what's do-able. When someone said that favorite-burial isn't a technically-valid strategy in Condorcet, I replied that favorite-burial is indeed a technically optimal strategy in Condorcet, if it's a u/a election, and if it seems like Condorcet is the only acceptable who can beat the unacceptables. If you have no idea which acceptable can beat the unacceptables, then top-rank them all. If it's somewhere in between, as will usually be the case, then you don't know what to do. You don't know what ballot ranking would give your faction its best result. You don't even know what ballot ranking would maximize your expectation. No one knows, in Condorcet. What about ICT? Completely different ballgame. There is no strategic need for favorite-burial, in u/a or non-u/a. Therefore you won't be wondering whether your best u/a strategy is Compromise alone at top, or all acceptables at top. Vote all of the acceptables at top. Ok, I admit that I don't know whether there's advantage, in a u/a election, to rank the unacceptables with the more winnable ones nearest the bottom. I would expect that your treatment of the unacceptables should be either that, or not ranking them at all. Are rank methods complicated contraptions or what! But I still like ICT. But, in any case, you won't have the lack of known strategy that you'd have in Condorcet. I've always said that you can't really discuss voting systems in a vacuum. But I'll call the candidates in this example, A, B, C, D, E, and F. But, fill in, for yourself, _actual_ candidates for them to represent, so that these situations aren't being discussed in a vacuum. F is the unacceptable. There could be more, but it's simpler, and just as good, to have just one. A , B, C, D, and E are the acceptables. A is your favorite. But you like B, C, D and E a lot too. Oh, one other thing, you don't like E as much as B, C, and D. E has some very good policy proposals, but is also somewhat lacking. Just to give you an example, E's platform says that we should adequately fund NPR (National Public Radio) because of its excellent news and commentary :-| :-) But I'm not naming any names. So, it's u/a. How would you vote in Approval? Of course you'd approve A, B, C, D, and E. But maybe that could be complicated by a C/D problem. Maybe the E people aren't as co-operative as you are, and maybe everything that they've said indicates that they will not vote for anyone but E, because they want E to win instead of A, B, C, or D. I should look up and re-post my 5 suggestions for dealing with C/D in Approval. It needn't be a problem. For now, I'll just say that some of those 5 solutions might call for not approving E, depending on the circumstances. C/D is solvable in Approval, but it definitely involves strategy (as it would in Condorcet too). What if the method is ICT? If there isn't any C/D problem, then I suggest that the optimal u/a strategy is to vote as in Approval. As I said, that makes ICT voting a lot simpler and easier than Condorcet voting. Just top-rank A, B, C, D, and E. Since F is the only unacceptable, you're done with your ranking. (If there's been more than one unacceptable, then maybe you should rank them below top, in reverse order of their (guessed) ability to beat an acceptable). But what if there's a C/D situation? Rank E in second place, instead of at top. Because of ICT's defection-resistance, it's pretty safe to do that. But of course, in a u/a election, it's really bad strategy to not top-rate all of the acceptables. And the strategy I've suggested here is to downrank E. That constitutes a little bit of a C/D problem. I'll call it a u/a C/D problem. It's much less than Approval's or Condorcet's C/D problem, because it's unlikely that F will win because you ranked E in second place. ICT's u/a C/D problem is a minor one. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < when faced with sincere votes that happen to look like a partial defection. That is, if voters sincerely mean that: 33: A>B (33 prefer A to B and both to C) 32: B (32 like B alone) 34: C (34 like B alone) then it won't elect B. That's unavoidable: the method can't read the voters' minds, so it can either elect B in the case above (which would mean it isn't resistant to C/D), or it can elect someone else (in which case, it is, but fails to pick the optimal "sincere" winner). In picking A instead of C, it might even support the "count all candidates ranked above the winner as Approved" modification. I suspect that Smith,IRV (and also Alternative Smith) resists C/D (but it's not monotone and has all the problems IRV has within the Smith set. I also have a vague suspicion that you can't have ISmith (ICT, ICA, etc) and clone independence, but I don't know that for sure. ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < saying that the resulting country and world would be perfect in every way. I'm saying that it would be what people actually want--something that they can support without holding their nose. But don't underestimate the magnitude of that change. Though I consider Approval to be the best in some meaningful ways, I also would like more--as you would. But, as I said, most of the benefit comes from everyone being able to support 1st choice and 2nd choice _at all_. Let's not be greedy and dwaddle around forever about what else we could ideally get. Do you want improvement or not? Or would you rather debate forever? And, as for helping 1st choice over 2nd choice, while helping both over last choice, free of strategy need: You're in deinal about Gibbard-Satterthwaite. You're in denial about Condorcet's blatant and full-magnitude co-operation/defection problem. And you're in denial about millions of voters' need to litterally maximally help the Democrat beat the Republican. And that's not even counting the good chance of successful offensive burial strategy when there are more than 3 candidates. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < rankings, or the real world question of what will avoid societal harm when used in public political elections. We have different reasons for our participation here. Speaking for myself, I suggest that _results_ are what is important. Societal results. Some others are saying, "My method is the ideal best!" Well, for one thing, remember what Richard said about that claim: What is the ideal best must depend on which criterion or criteria you consider the most important. Besides, of what relevance is the ideal best, if it doesn't get enacted? And no, it isn't enough to say, "Yes, but if my method _were_ enacted..." "If"s are irrelevant. As I've recently quoted, "If wishes were horses...". Are we interested in actual social improvements that actually happen, or are we interested in ideal best, when we don't even agree on by what criteria to judge ideal best-ness? Shall we keep on fighting about who goes through the door, like the 3 Stooges, or shall we actually get through the door? Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < questions suggest themselves: 1. Does compiance with u/a FBC guarantee that there won't be a societally-damaging favorite-burial incentive? 2. Do Smith-Approval and Smith-Top meet u/a FBC? Voter's Choice: I'm going to refine my definition of Voter's Choice, but first let me summarize what I've already said: The Voter's Choice definition that has a voter's ballot giving a point to the winner by that voter's designated method, and also to every candidate ranked higher on hir ballot, has two problems: 1. It spoils the defection resistance of ICT and Smith-Top. 2. It legislates Approval to a degree that could be considered unfair by non-Approvalists. So I prefer the definition that merely says: Voters may designate a method. The methods are weighted according to how many people have designated them. In other words, each candidate receives a point for each voter who has designated a method that elects that candidates. [end of previous Voter's Choice definition] It occurred to me that if there are two good methods that you feel will give a good result, and you like one more than the other, but that other is likely to have more support from others, then there could be the familiar split-vote problem, for deciding which method to designnate. So then, why not let voters designate more than one method?: I'll now call this Voter's Choice 2: A voter may designate one or more methods. The methods are weighted according to the number of people who have designated them. In other words, each candidate receives a point for each voter who has designated one or more of the methods that have chosen hir. The candidate with the most points wins. [end of Voter's Choice 2 definition] I think that Voter's Choice 2 is considerably better than Voter's Choice. I'll probably soon say that Voter's Choice 2 is what I ;mean by "Voter's Choice". But, since Voter's Choice 2 is a new proposal, then, for now, I'll leave them with those two different names. For EM polls, or even for public elections, whenever it's desired to make a choice when there is no one established method, then Voter's choice 2, or maybe Voter's Choice, would be the best way to make that choice. SSCS: I now claim that SSCS says something that _is_ of interest. It speaks of whether or not, when making Compromise win instead of Worse is the only way to defeat Worse, and when there is a way that you can vote that will achieve that, you have a specific simple way of voting that will achieve that. Approval and Abucklin (in all of its versions) are the only methods that have even been claimed to meet SSCS. Also, no one has suggested that any method other than Approval can meet Strong FBC. By the way, speaking of Approval and criteria, it's been some time since I looked at Arrow's criteria, but it seems to me that the only one of those that Approval fails is a _rules_ criterion, as opposed to a _results_ criterion. It's a "criterion" that requires that the method be a rank method. I have no use for rules "criteria". I could be mistaken, because I haven't looked at Arrow's criteria for a long time. Mike Ossipoff ..... ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < comment on some things said by Robert. I like to be able to say that, unlike some people, I answer all questions. I don't want to be accused of evasion. I'll reply to Dave Ketchum's post too. Now for Robert's post: Robert said: the reason that it is silly and undemocratic to elect someone who is not the Condocet Winner is simple: if you do that, you have elected to office a candidate when *more* of us voters marked explicitly on our ballots that we wanted someone else. if more of us voters agree that Candidate A is a better choice for office than those of us who agree that Candidate B is better, then what sense of democracy is upheld by electing Candidate B? [endquote] In other words, Condorcet's Criterion is justified because failing to comply with it would violate Condorcet's Criterion. Every criterion tells about some desideratum. Because the different desiderata conflict with eachother, are often mutually incompatible, not available with the same methods, then we must choose which desiderata are important to us. I've amply spoken of the societal damage resulting from FBC failure. Robert continues: that's why i hold the Condorcet criterion higher than FBC [endquote] As I've said in a previous post, when FBC sufficiently makes is problem, when it causes a significant number of voters to bury their favorite, then Condorcet's Criterion compliance becomes entirely meaningless and valueless. The relevance and meaning of Condorcet's Criterion depends on an absence of the choice-distortions caused by FBC failure. So FBC clearly dominates and trumps Condorcet's Criterion. As the introducer and initial proponent of Condorcet(wv), the now predominant Condorcet family of methods, I'll agree that Condorcet is very appealing to beginners. But subsequent experience has shown me that it isn't good enough. Maybe I know how Dr. Frankenstein must have felt :-) ...with Condorcet(wv) out there devastating the voting-system-reform-advocacy countryside. Robert continues: do you propose to post these suggested instruction for voters at the polls? [endquote] I hadn't suggested that. But it wouldn't oppose the posting of some of my simpler suggetions: "Approve whomever you like and trust, or consider deserving of your support." OR Approve whom you'd vote for in Plurality, and everyone who is better than him/her." Note, Robert, that I made it clear that people needn't do other than approving those whom they like and trust. Note that I said that, if _they want_ strategy, then the simple strategy of approving whom they'd vote for in Plurality, plus everyone better, would be sufficient. Note that I clarified that the additional strategies that I subsequently listed _don't_ make Approval more complicated than Plurality. The only reason why you don't hear such strategy suggestions for Plurality is because no one knows them. Or, even if they were known, they'd be too complicated to suggest you to use. Robert continued: do you expect that any decent proportion of voters would go into the booth, pull the curtain, and strategize thusly? [endquote] Few would, I would expect. Most would just approve those candidates whom they like and trust, or consider deserving of their support. But yes, some might approve the candidate they'd vote for in Plurality, and everyone who is better. Robert said: perhaps these are perfectly good tactics to take into the booth in an Approval election, but it's unreasonable to expect voters that are any less savvy than the most sophisticated to know about, think about, and take these tactics into the voting booth. [endquote] Robert, re-read what I said above, and in the strategy section of my article. Robert continued: *and*, as a matter of general principle, we want to *remove* any burden of tactical voting from the general electorate. we want them to not have to worry about their contingency vote acting to harm their favorite. [endquote] And your myth is that Condorcet can't require such strategy. I refer you to my posts about Condorcet's co-operation/defection problem, and its favorite-burial incentive problem. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info <, because of the societal consequences of failing it. If a weaker FBC such as u/a FBC could be sufficient, then more methods would be acceptable. Anyway, Smith-Top means what you'd expect it to mean: Elect the Smith set member who is ranked in 1st place on the most ballots. Smith-Top obviously meets Condorcet's Criterion. Smith-Top would be a method in the spirit of Kristofer's Smith-Approval, but attempting to copy ICT's defection-resistance. Smith-Top is to Smith-Approval as ICT is to ICA. I'm not proposing Smith-Top, for the reasons given above. Kristofer: Let me know if you intended u/a FBC different from how I've described it. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info < I. Richard continues: Ideally I would hope that Mike recognizes that his article fails to describe Approval voting in a way that would be understood by most readers of Democracy Chronicles [endquote] Well, let's see...I suggested that the voter be allowed to give to each candidate a rating of "Approved" or "Unapproved", and that the candidate with the most "Approved" ratings wins. Which part of that does Richard have trouble with? Richard continues: And I think that using an example of people raising hands or saying "yes" makes it easy to understand, and encourages people to try using it. [endquote] I like the illustrtion of an Approval ballot, which Adrian included. That showing of an Approval ballot helps to clarify what Approval voting is like. Richard continues: I would think that Mike would want people to try it to see how simple it is, and to give people an opportunity to experience how it works better than plurality voting. [endquote] Of course. But I don't know if Democracy Chronicles is set up for that sort of interactive balloting. By the way, I did propose a poll at EM a few months ago, for that very purpose (not just for Approval, but for rank-balloting too). At EM, we've done a number of presidential polls, and at least two polls regarding voting systems. Most of them were proposed by me. Now that we're on the subject of polls: Richard keeps saying that, these days, he hears more in favor of CC than FBC. ...and he probably hears more advocacy of Condorcet (versions not usually specified) than of Approval. EM's constantly shifting participating-memberts mix will sometimes favor Condorcet, and sometimes Approval. Richard suggested a poll. As I've said, we had at least two polls on voting systems. Two that I know of. Maybe they were the only ones. In the first such poll, the winner was Smith//Condorcet, the best Condorcet version we knew of at the time. In 2nd place was Plain Condorcet, now more often referred to as "MinMax(wv). They won by every method we counted. That poll held fairly soon after I introduced the Condorcet(wv) family of voting systems. Condorcet(wv) has become the predominant and popular class or family of Condorcet versions, and inludes Markus Schultz's now popular CSSD/Beatpath version of Condorcet(wv). In our other voting systems poll, Approval won, by every method we counted. So, you see, a voting systems poll is just a snapshot of one momentary configuration of EM's constantly shifting active-poster mix. In all of our polls, presidential and on voting systems, Approval always chose the CW. Warren Smith has spoken of why that tends to be so. By the way, Richard, when you keep referring to the Condorcet's Criterion advocates heard from so much these days, would you, by any chance, be referring to Dave Ketchum and Robert Bristow? Forest Simpson isn't participating these days, but he was for a long time, and he is an Approvalist, though he discusses many interesting ideas about other methods too. Forest also likes MCA and MTA. He was the introducer of MCA, which led to MTA. Approval, MCA, and MTA meet FBC, but not Condorcet's Criterion. As recently as a few months ago there was an another Approvalist active on EM, but who is no longer participating. As I said--snapshots of a constantly shifting membership. Look at the credentialled signers list, of the Declaration. You'll find Approval well-represented. By the way, Richard, though your VoteFair is defined at your website, is there some reason why you don't want to post its definition to EM? Richard says: There is no need to mention the Condorcet criteria [criterion] , as long as Mike does not make any false claims about it [endquote] Richard is invited to specify a false claim that I've made about Condorcdt's Criterion. Richard says: , which I think that Adrian can now identify as opinions rather than mathematically supported facts. [endquote] Richard is invited to _specifically_ name a mathematically incorrect statement that I've made about Condorcet's Criterion. ...or a statement or opinion that I've made, which needs mathematical support that I've failed to provide upon request. (For one thing, I haven't heard any requests prior to this message). But it's pointless to ask Richard to specify what he means. Vagueness is his standard technique. Mike Ossipoff ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info <: what was your goal, why were you interested in questions about the mathematics of democracy, what was the heuristics you followed, etc.? - Could you send me a photograph of you? (either contemporary, or from the time you devised your method: bouth would be fine). » [*] Concerning the photograph, you may send one to me if you do have one, but I could not use it without Markus' authorization (anyhow, it could save some time if Markus aswered at the very last minute). Thanks in advance! Kind regards, Rémi Peyre ---- Election-Methods mailing list - see for list info </pre> Rémi 2012-05-08T17:03:05 Search Engine Search the mailing list at Gmane query

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New Rules of the Road The Travel Detective's Guide to Great Journeys in Tough Economic Times New York Times Best-Selling Author Peter Greenberg Travel Editor for CBS News Sarika Chawla, Chief Research Editor Notice. ©2011 by Peter Greenberg All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or any other information storage and retrieval system, without the written permission of the author. Printed in the United State of America ISBN: 978-0-9849775-0-5 Contents Acknowledgments Introduction 1. Airlines and Airfares 2. Airports 3. Accommodations 4. Car Rentals 5. Cruising 6. Family Travel 7. Discount Programs 8. One-Tank Trips 9. Tourist Discount Cards 10. Free Activities 11. Dining on a Budget 12. Shoulder and Off-Season Travel 13. Bus Travel 14. Train Travel 15. Money Matters 16. Passports 17. Luggage Acknowledgments I learned a long time ago that there are three kinds of people in the world: the people who make it happen, the people who watch what happened, and then there's the third category— one in which you don't ever want to find yourself—the people who wonder what happened. But recently, we have watched as the people who made what happened suddenly begin to wonder what happened, and as a result, many of us have found ourselves unwitting victims of a failing economy. But are we really victims? Hardly. Within conflict and trouble lie opportunity. And, armed with the right information and resources, that upside remains almost unlimited. That's the philosophy of this book, which was shared immediately by Leigh Haber and my agent, Amy Rennert. My chief research editor, Sarika Chawla, then assembled a great team of information sleuths, including Jessica Kate Soberman, Lily Kosner, Dara Bramson, Alyssa Caverley, Grace Kelly, Karen Elowitt, Courtney Crowder, and Matthew Calcara. Above all, I am especially grateful to Sarika for working virtually nonstop to meet an unforgiving deadline. And now, the final result—a sort of guerrilla travel guide to not just surviving the economic meltdown, but transcending it. New Rules of the Road When the going gets tough, the tough—and the smart—continue to travel. And they travel well. The rules of the road may have been changed, but our desire, our passion and our need to travel has only intensified. The real definition of great travel is when we get to keep our options. Sadly, the travel industry has evolved to a point in which our options seem to have exponentially decreased. Indeed, there was no adequate way to prepare for the economic crisis that still grips us. And so we must adjust. It's not about just surviving, but developing a strategy that allows us to get the very best experience every time we travel. To do that, we now have to navigate the new travel challenges and understand the real news you can use to play by these new rules of the road. Our initial reaction after the economic meltdown may have been the same as it was after 9/11. Many of us simply retreated into a bunker, out of fear, or with the presumption there was nothing we could do to make things better, or more affordable, or more efficient, or more humane. History continually confirms that there's no upside to hanging in the bunker. And, recent history will tell you there's no reason to hang in there either. How do I know this? Let's start out with my feelings about focus groups. I hate them. I hate the concept of them. Why? They always give the answers that the questioners want, because they are either asked loaded questions, or they're not asked an important follow-up question. Consider what happened: Six days after September 11, 2001, when the U.S. airline fleet resumed flying, hundreds of Americans—in those dreaded focus groups—were surveyed and asked if they were planning to travel anytime soon. "No" was the overwhelming response. Gee, what a surprise. And so the travel industry braced for a dramatic drop in demand. But those doing the survey forgot to ask a crucial follow up question: Do you WANT to travel? Of course we did. But the rules had changed and many of us just didn't know if we could travel. We desperately needed someone to tell us it was okay to travel. In essence, we wanted our security blanket, and the travel industry did a poor job of providing that. So we didn't go. And now, in the wake of a severe economic crisis, that first question is being asked again, without the important follow-up question. And the answers are the same. We know we want to travel. We need to travel. And we just have to play by the new rules of the road. To date, all the major legacy airlines have filed for bankruptcy protection. And they're circling the wagons by merging, consolidating and cutting capacity. Right now, there are nearly a thousand aircraft parked in America's deserts, almost all of them permanently. That's the equivalent of taking one of the big airlines entirely out of service, which is devastating for the economies of cities and communities that now have limited air service, or no service at all. And yet, airlines are now turning a profit based on charging fees for everything short of visits to the toilet, and are calling it “à la carte” pricing. A study from the U.S. Travel Association showed that the economy is losing billions of dollars because Americas are avoiding travel...not because of cost, but because of frustration. Yet the survey found that if the travel process were more predictable, streamlined, and safe, Americans would take two to three more trips per year, for a total of about $85 billion. And when people travel, other people go to work. We need to remind our governments and policymakers of the power and impact of travel; of how it has consistently transcended events, demographics, and focus groups; of how it is at the core of our cultural DNA. In the meantime, the travel industry is also trying to adjust to the new rules of the road. That's when the definition of terms comes into play. Travel providers are afraid of the word "discount" or "budget," because they think it will lower their worth. It's all about perception. So instead, luxury hotels are focusing on added-value incentives like complimentary wine and waived parking fees; destinations are touting their off-season activities (and calling it "value season"); cruises and resorts are offering rock-bottom rates just to get you in the doors (where the real spending begins). Negotiation has now become a tool that's accessible to every level of traveler. The power of the Internet and social media is allowing information to flow like never before. So, it's not a question of whether we will travel, but how...and how well. What will determine that? First, refusing to board the panic train. Second, recognizing that the rules have changed, and our perception of travel has to change right along with it. Again, this is not about just how to survive, but how to succeed on your travels — beating the travel industry at their own game by using the new rules of the road. Chapter 1 AIRLINES AND AIRFARES What factors make airfare go up? Decreased capacity, high demand and raised fuel prices. Over the past couple of years, airlines have worked toward increasing their bottom line...and have succeeded. In fact, some even started posting profits, which seemed like an impossible feat in the years after September 11, 2001. By cutting routes and even parking planes in the desert, U.S. airlines slashed capacity, effectively reducing the amount of seats available to travelers across the board. After the economic meltdown of 2008 people cut back on travel. As I predicted, because travel is in our blood, slowly but surely, demand rose again. Yet that capacity was still slashed. Translation? The law of supply and demand kicked in. Meanwhile, the price of oil went through something of a rollercoaster over the past several years. In July 2008, we saw the price of oil peak at $147 per barrel, stabilize over the next several months, drop significantly, and then climb back up to more than $100 a barrel just a few short years later. Experts attribute these increases to everything from Iranian nuclear testing to Hurricane Katrina to civil unrest in the Middle East. Airlines usually enter fuel-hedging contracts, so they can establish a fixed or capped cost of fuel to hedge against the threat of rising fuel prices. In anticipation of, or in immediate response to the rising cost of jet fuel, airlines can simply turn around and raise fares on the consumer. When you travel makes almost as much of a difference as where you travel. Many airlines charge a fee for travel during peak dates. That includes the dates around Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's, as well as most dates between Memorial Day and Labor Day. There are charges as high as $50 to fly out the day after the Super Bowl! The only way to combat it? Beat the airlines at their own game and travel when everyone else...is not. Traveling over the holidays? Fly out the Tuesday before Thanksgiving or on Thanksgiving Day itself and return the Monday after. Do not, I repeat, do not, travel on the Wednesday before or the Sunday after, or you're asking to relive your own version of Trains, Planes & Automobiles. Fly out on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. And in the summer, opt to fly on a Tuesday or Wednesday when the surcharges tend to be lower. Ancillary Revenue Without a doubt, ancillary revenue generates billions of dollars for the airline industry and contributes greatly to the rebounding of the airline industry. Bottom line: It's not going away any time soon. Ancillary revenue, unbundling, or going à la carte are just fancy ways of saying that airlines are now charging for everything short of using the toilet in exchange for (theoretically) lower base fares. That way they can remain competitive in pricing, while travelers only pay for the extra services they want. Air Canada was one of the original models for the unbundling system, including optional amenities in the ticket price. This airline has four fare classes: The most expensive is a refundable ticket with amenities like priority check-in and food. The lowest-priced option is a reserved seat, with for fee-based upgrades like food vouchers, advance seat selection, flight changes, and airport lounge access. Some other fees we've seen in recent years: Pillows and Blankets: This was one of the first free amenities to go, with several airlines charging to use, and bring home, a new pillow and blanket. In-Flight Food: Again, one of the first perks to be unbundled, with Continental as the last U.S. airline to fall. Checked Bags: In what’s probably one of the biggest boons for the airlines, travelers now have to pay for the first and/or second checked bag on most airlines. Some exceptions hold for first and business class ticketholders, those with elite status, and certain credit-card holders. Carry-on Bags: So far Spirit is the only U.S. carrier that has implemented this offensive fee. (As far as I'm concerned, their motto is, "We won’t be happy until you're not happy!") Ticket Change: As much as $150 each way for domestic flights on the major carriers. Confirmed Standby: As much as $50 to confirm a reservation on a different flight on the same day. Phone Reservation: Anywhere from $15 to $35 to book a ticket over the phone. More Room Fee: Delta, Northwest, Virgin America, and several others now charge for roomier exit-row seats. United-Continental has Economy Plus seats offer a few more inches of space and are more expensive than coach but cheaper than business What's next? George Hobica of AirfareWatchdog points out, all you have to do is look overseas at Ryanair to see what's on the horizon: travel with an infant on your lap fees; convenience fees for booking online; maybe even...pay toilets on planes? How do you get around these fees? The only silver lining is that you pay for what you use; so don't use it! Otherwise, focus your efforts on reaching elite status on an airline to obtain perks like free checked luggage and upgrades, and look for credit cards that waive certain fees. Saturday-Night Stays For years, airlines have required travelers to stay over on a Saturday night to qualify for discounted airfares. The idea was to gouge business travelers, who tend to travel during the week. This practice pretty much disappeared with the rise of low-cost carriers, but with airlines scrambling to make money, the Saturday-night-stay requirement is back in several markets. The good news: The Saturday-night stay is a commodity that the airlines can use as a bargaining tool. Look for deals, particularly on well-traveled business routes, where the Saturday-night stay is eliminated as part of a promotion. Getting around it. It sounds complicated, but for frequent business travelers, back-to-back ticketing can be an effective tool. It's not something the airlines condone, or even want you to know about, but used correctly, it can work to your advantage. Say you have to fly from New York to San Francisco for a business trip on Monday, April 6, through Thursday, April 9. No Saturday-night stay means you’re going to pay through the nose, say $1,200.00. Book the return ticket from San Francisco to New York for 3 weeks later. The Saturday-night stay makes the round-trip ticket significantly cheaper, say $400.00. Then make a second round-trip booking, this time from San Francisco to New York on Thursday, April 9 and returning two weeks later. If you plan it properly, you’ll fly from New York to San Francisco using half of one booking and fly back using half of the other. Then you get another trip from New York to San Francisco and back using the remainder of the two round-trip tickets. That’s two trips for $800.00 (and double the frequent-flier miles), as opposed to $1,200.00 for one. Or just stick with budget carriers like Southwest Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Spirit Airlines, and AirTran Airways, which generally don’t have Saturday-night-stay requirements and sell one-way tickets. What’s the best time to buy airline tickets? Wednesday morning (late Tuesday night) when it’s 12:01 a.m. in the same time zone as the airline’s hub. If you're booking on Atlanta based Delta wait until 12:01 a.m. Eastern Time. On American, the hub is in Dallas, so wait until 12:01 a.m. Central Time. Sound crazy? Here’s how it works. Airlines are still in the business of matching one another, so if one airline changes its fares, adds a fee, or eliminates a service, other airlines usually follow suit. Airline fare wars usually start on Fridays. An airline announces a fare and a competitor counters with a lower fare; the next day all of their competitors match the fare change. The going rate continues to drop Sunday night or Monday morning. By Monday night another airline may jump in and offer an even lower fare. By Tuesday morning…it’s over. Remember, once you book a ticket you’re given a 24-hour hold period for purchase at that fare. By Tuesday at midnight the airlines’ computers cancel the orders of all the people who booked but didn’t buy their tickets by Monday night. Suddenly all those low fares come flooding back into the system for a short period of time. That’s when you pounce. Wait any longer and the cycle will start all over again on Friday. Budget Airlines If handled properly, budget airlines can be your best friends. If you don’t follow the rules—well, just don’t say I didn’t warn you. Budget airlines like JetBlue, Southwest, and Virgin Atlantic can be credited with lowering airfares across the board. There’s even something called the Southwest Effect, a term that was actually coined by the US Department of Transportation to refer to the increase in air travel and drop in rates that took place whenever Southwest entered a new market. Although Southwest is no longer the "budget" option it was and its effect has somewhat dampened increased competition still means lower rates. Low-cost carriers are also an excellent way to get around cheaply in foreign countries. Traveling around Europe? Fly to London and then get to your destination city on a budget carrier. Two of the best known are Ryanair and EasyJet, but there are dozens of European budget airlines. They proliferated in the early 1990s when airlines were first allowed to fly anywhere in the European Union without prior government approval. Budget carriers have also made their mark in Australia and Asia. If you can get yourself to a main hub, you’ll have multiple options. One big caveat: Travel light. If you show up at a no-frills airline carrying 60 pounds of luggage, you’re going to pay for each and every pound over the minimum weight. It adds up fast; trust me on this one. Find out which budget airlines go where at. Tip: Southwest doesn’t release its data to travel search engines and aggregator sites like Kayak.com, Farechase.yahoo.com, and Sidestep.com. This means you can’t compare it side by side with other airlines. These sites don’t all have the same inventory, so to be a smart shopper, compare as many as possible. Secret Flights Traveling from Vancouver, British Columbia to New York? Sure, you can fly Air Canada or American. But I bet you didn’t know Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific Airways, a leading airline that consistently wins awards for its service and comfort, can also get you there. Welcome to the world of “secret flights”: unusual routes flown by unexpected foreign airlines. Are they really secret? No, they are published, scheduled flights with fares, but they aren’t really marketed. The airlines flying them use the routes as “fifth freedom” flights, meaning that individual countries have given these airlines the right to stop within their borders while en route to and from the airline’s base country. How does this benefit for you? You’re on a nonstop flight that many people are unaware of, meaning fewer passengers, lower prices, and, if you’re on the right airline, better service. One of my favorite options is to fly nonstop from Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) to London’s Heathrow Airport on Air New Zealand. You’ll also get to sip New Zealand wines the whole way there, even in coach. Jet Airways flights from JFK and Newark to India stop in Brussels, Belgium. It’s going to be a much better experience—on every level—than flying Delta from New York’s JFK International Airport or Continental from Newark Liberty Airport. These secret flights usually show up on travel search engines like Orbitz.com and Expedia.com and meta-search engines like Kayak or Mobissimo. Rule of thumb: If you see an airline listed that makes you go “Huh?” chances are it’s a secret flight. Another handy Web site is Dohop.com. It tracks your preferred route across 660 airlines. I also like Momondo.com, which displays a price graph and calendar to showcase how prices can vary with flight dates. You can also find out which airlines fly where by checking the Official Airline Guide (OAG). Click on Airport Information at and select the country, city, and airport to pull up a list of airlines that service it. Flighstats.com allows users to search by Flight, Airport, or Route to get the most up-to-date flight information. Flight Passes If you’re planning to travel extensively throughout a country or region, a flight pass may save you some cash. Instead of standard point-to-point tickets, flight passes allow you to take a limited number of flights within a given period for a flat rate. Flight passes are available from individual airlines, airline alliances and travel brokers. Take a look at just a few examples of what’s out there: Air Canada has more than 25 passes comprised of advanced paid one-way tickets. They cover almost all Air Canada’s destinations in North America and overseas. The passes usually include 4-6 credits (with each credit being valid for a one-way trip, including connecting flights) and are valid for 3 to 6 months, depending on the pass (some offer unlimited travel within a specific time period). Cathay Pacific’s All Asia Pass not only gets you to Asia and back, it also lets you wander around 24 cities in nine countries. The pass includes round-trip economy-class travel between the gateway cities of Los Angeles, San Francisco, or New York and Hong Kong plus up to four other “basic” Asian destinations within a 21-day period. The pass starts at $1,599.00 for flights to two destinations and goes up from there. Additional add-ons, like an extra $500 to travel during the summer, are available. Qantas Airway’s Aussie AirPass is similar to the All Asia Pass as for one price it gets you from the United States to Australia and includes several city visits. Prices start at around $1,300 for a flight from Los Angeles, San Francisco, or Honolulu, plus three domestic flights within Australia. Prices go up from there depending in what zone and season you fly. Malaysia Airlines offers the Discover Malaysia Air Pass, which allows you to take up to three flights anywhere in Malaysia (including the provinces on the island of Borneo) within six months starting at $99 for economy and $199.00 business class. However, the pass doesn’t include the US-to-Malaysia flight, which you must purchase on Malaysia Airlines within one month to qualify for the pass. Don’t forget about airline alliances, since you can pretty much fly anywhere in the world on partner airlines Both Oneworld and Star Alliance offer multi-stop and round-the-world options. For example, Oneworld’s Visit Europe visitor pass allows for unlimited one-way flight segments within Europe. The segments start at about $85 per flight and are priced at a flat rate according to distance. Oneworld’s Visit South America visitor pass also charges a flat rate based on how many miles you’re flying on partner airlines such as American Airlines, British Airways, and LAN Airlines (including LAN Chile and LAN Peru). Rates start at $119.00 for a short-haul flight of up to 560 miles and go up to $359 for up to 3,500 miles (getting to Easter Island will cost you more). With 27 partner airlines compared to Oneworld’s 12, Star Alliance options range from the Circle Asia Fare and the Africa Airpass to an around-the-world pass. The price depends on how many stops you want to make. If you don’t want to be locked into partner airlines check out travel companies like AirTreks that get bulk discounts and travel agent rates. Live specialists can help coordinate one-way flights that won’t force you to remortgage your house before you go. Bumped from the Flight? Now that so many domestic airlines are cutting capacity, the risk of getting bumped off your flight has increased. The good news is that the Department of Transportation increased the payout for getting bumped involuntarily. The maximum compensation was raised from $400 to $650 (or double the price of your ticket, whichever comes first). For long delays, you can get four times the value of your ticket up to $1,300. Now that's all well and good, but most people just want to get to their destination as quickly and efficiently as possible. The rule of thumb is to check in as early as possible, especially if you can do it online. Get to the airport at least two hours before takeoff. Here’s something you may not know: passengers with heavily discounted tickets have a higher risk of being bumped. If you’re headed to a meeting or an event to which you can’t be late, buy a full-fare ticket. Secret Seats on Planes Sure, we don't expect a lot out of flying coach, but in reality, some airline seats are better than others. Here's how you can find those secret seats on planes. Yes, those exit-row and bulkhead seats are great options on short-haul flights. On longer flights, it's not a great deal: seat backs that don't recline, immoveable armrests, and limited leg room. Either 9A and 9F or 10A and 10F are secret seats on United, Delta and American 757s because there are no seats in front of them. On a British Airways 747, it's actually the middle seat that you want, specifically 51 and 52B, and 51 and 52J, because those rows only go two across, not three. Check out SeatGuru.com or check the airline's Web site to see the layout of the aircraft. Remember, while a lot of airlines fly the same planes, configurations vary. If all else fails, you can always pay for more space. Premium economy seats are still cheaper than business class, but offer more space than traditional coach seats. Top Airfare-Saving Sites Airfare Watchdog: George Hobica’s site has real people scouring the Internet to find the best deals on the Web. Yapta: Not only does Yapta track airfares, it also tells you if the price of a ticket you already purchased has dropped. If it has, Yapta will help you get a credit refund for the difference. Bing Travel: Don’t know if you should buy a ticket now or wait until later? Plug in your route and Bing's price-predictor tool will let you know if the price is expected to go up, down or stay the same. Get Human: You can use this site to get in touch with hundreds of companies, not just airlines. Learn how to bypass the automated phone system and talk to a live human being. Fare Compare: Rick Seaney’s site compares more airline prices than most other travel search engines (and even includes Southwest). It also maintains a database of airfare to give a historic perspective and help predict future fare trends. Frequent-Flier Programs—Suddenly Redeemable Miles? As travelers—or would-be travelers—we remain hopelessly addicted to mileage programs. And we’ll do just about anything to get miles, even in a tough economy. An Alex Gregory New Yorker cartoon says it all. A man at gunpoint is handing his wallet over to a mugger and pleading, “Use the Platinum card. I need the miles.” Then there was the billboard promoting a loyalty program that featured a woman relaxing in an ocean-side hammock at sunset. The copy read, “It’s where hard-earned meets well-spent.” There’s no argument that miles are hard-earned. But well-spent presumes they can be redeemed when wanted, if at all. Since American Airlines began its AAdvantage program in 1981, an estimated 124 million travelers have collected miles from more than 140 different airline mileage programs. In fact, the most profitable division of any airline is its mileage program. That’s right, it’s how the airlines raise money. They print the currency and control the redemption. They mint miles they might issue but may never be redeemed, and sell them to credit-card companies for advance funding. We’re talking hundreds of millions of dollars worth. If you run the numbers, you could make the argument that United–Continental is a functional subsidiary of JPMorgan Chase and its largest vendor, Visa. Some of the banks in mileage programs are the same ones that advanced money to the airlines and hold liens on their aircraft. That’s the power of mileage. Airlines are charging you more to use your miles and upping the minimum number of miles needed to get a seat. In the process, airlines forever redefined “free flight.” Consider the real cost of getting those miles. Most programs are linked to a high-interest affinity credit card that “rewards” 1 mile per dollar spent. Since the minimum threshold to get a “free” domestic coach ticket is about 25,000 miles, you have essentially spent $25,000.00 to get that ticket. So, let’s do the math. Let’s say you used 25,000 miles (a.k.a. $25,000.00) to get a round-trip ticket from Los Angeles-to-New York valued at about $500.00. If you go on a site like Bankrate.com you can calculate that over a year you’d pay $1,800 in interest on $25,000.00 worth of spending on your card. That $500.00 ticket just cost you $1,300.00! That simple calculation says it all. Still, the programs are worth it with a few important caveats. How can you efficiently use miles? For the moment, the key is not if, but when you can redeem those miles. Run, don’t walk, and start to redeem those miles any way you can as fast as you can. Look beyond your primary carrier to its mileage partners. The good news: Frequent-flier miles are a useful tool for airline promotions. Delta eliminated its expiration policy as a way to stand out among its competitors. Capital One's Venture Card incentivizes its customers with no blackout dates and an easy-to-calculate model: have 200,000 miles? You can apply that to a $200 ticket. But remember, these are no longer loyalty programs, they are marketing programs trying to change your purchasing habits. The most absurd and wasteful approach to collecting miles is to buy anything or change your buying patterns to get them. Beat these programs by only making a purchase you would have made anyway. And then, do whatever you can to redeem those miles. Pick destinations you’ve always wanted to visit that have outrageously expensive airfares, and redeem your miles for those high-cost-ticket destinations. If you collect your miles wisely, they will be used efficiently. Bottom line: Don't treat your miles as money. They’re only a legitimate and truly valuable perk if you don’t spend over and above the cost of your ticket to get them. Chapter 2 AIRPORTS If you want to save money when you fly, you can't just pick an airline and a fare. You need a bigger financial vision—and it should include the actual route between points A and B. Some real money saving comes into play when you realize that the route is all about the airports involved. Most and Least Expensive Airports Every quarter, the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Bureau of Transportation Statistics releases lists of the major U.S. airports that have the most expensive and cheapest average fares for domestic travelers to fly in to or out of. What are some of the most consistently expensive airports year after year? Newark-Liberty in New Jersey; Huntsville, Alabama; Cincinnati, Ohio; Charleston, South Carolina; and Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reasons behind high-priced airports vary based on competition and frequency of air service. An airport where one legacy carrier dominates most markets is likely to be more expensive than an airport where several low-cost carriers are competing for service. As capacity decreases and airlines cut routes, prices go up. Here's something interesting. Dallas Love Field, Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, and Long Beach Airport in Long Beach, California are a handful of the airports that appear year after year as the most affordable in the country. They are known as "alternate airports." An alternate airport is usually a smaller, secondary airport to a city’s major international airport. It can even be a tertiary airport as in the case of Chicago. Its third, “secret” airport isn’t even in Illinois; it’s in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Just quickly look at the General Mitchell International Airport parking lot to discover what a lot of Chicagoans have. More than a third of the cars there will have Illinois plates. Alternate airports can translate into shorter lines, fewer crowds, and bigger savings. Here’s why. Budget airlines often fly out of smaller airports JetBlue services alternate airports such as William P. Hobby Airport in Houston, Texas; Westchester County Airport in White Plains, New York; Oakland International Airport; Long Beach Airport; and Burbank’s Bob Hope Airport in California. Southwest services Chicago Midway Airport (alternate to O’Hare International); Manchester Boston Regional Airport in Manchester, New Hampshire and T. F. Green International Airport in Providence, Rhode Island (alternates to Logan International in Boston); Bob Hope in Burbank and Ontario International in Ontario, California (alternates to Los Angeles International); Dallas Love Field Airport (alternate to Dallas-Fort Worth International); Bradley International Airport in Hartford, Connecticut (alternate to New York and Boston); Long Island MacArthur Airport in Ronkonkoma, New York (alternate to John F. Kennedy International and LaGuardia in New York City and Newark Liberty Airport in Newark, New Jersey); and Oakland International Airport in Oakland and Mineta San José International Airport in San José, California (alternates to San Francisco International). Spirit Airlines has a hub at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport in Fort Lauderdale and also flies out of Palm Beach International in West Palm Beach (an alternative to Miami). Midwest Airlines’ hub is in Milwaukee. It services smaller airports such as Maryland’s Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport and Bishop International Airport in Flint, Michigan. Many smaller airports have reliable public transit links. Some of my favorite examples (all prices subject to change): Getting to Ronkonkoma’s Long Island MacArthur Airport from Manhattan on public transportation is more of a hassle than taking the AirTrain to JFK, but it’s definitely accessible. Colonial Transportation of Long Island offers $5.00 shuttle service from MacArthur to the Ronkonkoma Long Island Railroad (LIRR) train station. A bus between the two costs $1.50. LIRR service to or from Manhattan’s Penn Station will cost you $11.75 during non-peak times and takes less than an hour and a half. Palm Beach International Airport is about an hour and a half from Miami in West Palm Beach, but you can take the Tri-Rail commuter train service directly from Miami International Airport in the center of the city to the Palm Beach airport for $5.00 on weekends and 6.90 on weekdays. Chicago’s Midway Airport is actually closer to the city than O’Hare. It’s about 10 miles from downtown and accessible via the Chicago Transit Authority’s Orange Line for $2.25. Don’t forget the previously mentioned General Mitchell International Airport in Milwaukee, which is an easy 90-minute, $22.00 train ride on Amtrak’s Hiawatha Service. (As an added bonus, the Hiawatha is historically one of the most on-time Amtrak trains.) The rider-friendly Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) is a simple way to get to San Francisco from Oakland International Airport. Take the AirBART bus from the airport to the BART Coliseum/Oakland Airport station, where you can catch a BART train to any point in San Francisco. The whole trip costs less than $3.00. In the Washington, DC, area, both Dulles International in Chantilly, Virginia, and Baltimore’s Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall (BWI) are viable alternatives to Reagan National well served by low-cost carriers. Dulles, which is about 25 miles from DC, is connected to the Metrorail system by the Washington Flyer Coach, which departs about every half hour for the Metro West Falls Church Station and costs $10.00 for a 20 to 30-minute ride. Hop on the Metrobus Route 5A which drops you off 40-50 minutes away at L’Enfant Plaza for about $6.00. Take the Express Metrobus from BWI to the Greenbelt Metro station to connect to points in Washington, DC; Virginia; and Montgomery and Prince George’s Counties in Maryland. The one-way bus ticket will cost you $3.85 per person (exact change is required) and takes about 30 minutes. Tip: If an airport refers to itself as “[Insert nearby major city name] Regional Airport,” it’s probably an alternate airport. Cases in point: Manchester-Boston Regional Airport in Manchester, New Hampshire. An alternate airport may be closer to your destination than the major airport Bob Hope Airport in Burbank, California, is about 3 miles from tourist attractions like Universal Studios and many of the television studios (for those free TV-show tapings!); Los Angeles International (LAX) is nearly 30 miles away. If you’re headed to Disneyland, John Wayne Airport in Orange County or Long Beach Airport are going to be a better bet than LAX.; Traveling to Cape Cod, Massachusetts? Fly into Providence, Rhode Island instead of Boston Logan. The distance is about the same, but less traffic exiting T. F. Green International Airport makes for a smoother experience. And Dallas Love Field is actually Dallas, unlike Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, which is about 20 miles away. Tip: Airport parking can really break the bank. Search online for the lowest rates before you go. Check out national and international reservation sites like,, and. Tip: Sleeping in an airport isn’t an ideal way to spend a night, but think of how much you’ll save. Some airports, like those in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada; Dubai, United Arab Emirates; and Istanbul, Turkey offer sleeping pods or by-the-hour airport hotels for naps. Check out SleepingInAirports.net for travelers’ reports on the best and worst airports for snoozing. (The Golden Pillow Award consistently goes to Singapore’s Changi Airport.) If you really want to plan ahead bring along a Mini Motel! Available at, these portable tents fold up to 17 x 12 x 3 inches and weigh less than 5 pounds. It’s about $50.00 and includes the tent, an air mattress and pillow, a bed sheet, an alarm clock, a reading light, a toothbrush and toothpaste, earplugs, and eyeshades! Save Time with Carry-On Luggage In my book there are only two kinds of luggage: carry on and lost. Assuming the bags actually arrive on the flight checking bags adds about 90 minutes to travel time. It’s all about what you bring on the plane, and how you do it. Here’s a big time saver: Undress for security before you arrive at the airport. Take everything out of your pocket (that’s been in there since 1947): keys, watches, cell phone, jewelry, spare coins, anything metallic—even a pen, and put it in a zip top bag. Security unwraps anything gift wrapped, especially with foil, so don’t wrap presents. These simple steps save a lot of time. Not doing this ahead of time contributes to the already long line of angry travelers behind you. This advice saves time for yourself and all your fellow travelers. Worst-Weather Airports The Weather Channel compiles a list of the top 10 worst-weather large U.S. airports using data on thunderstorms, rain, snow, cloud cover and winds from the National Climatic Data Center. . It looks at overall delay statistics, airports that consistently have flight delays, and meteorology. 1. Chicago O’Hare International Airport 2. Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport 3. Newark Liberty, JFK, LaGuardia 4. Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport 5. Logan International Airport 6. Philadelphia International Airport 7. San Francisco International Airport 8. Lambert-St. Louis International Airport 9. Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport 10. Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport The impact of weather can really make or break a travel experience. Anticipate which airports are more likely to be affected to improve your chances of getting from point A to point B. It’s no surprise that Chicago O'Hare is consistently at the top of the worst-weather airports in America. Whatever the weather, Northern-tier cities like Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis and Boston can have problems. In the winter it's snow, clouds and wind. In the summertime it's thunderstorms. Warm-weather destinations have problems, too. Atlanta, America's busiest airport, deals with thunderstorms, rain and low-cloud delays. Inclement weather other than storms can wreak havoc on schedules. San Francisco International’s proximity to the Pacific Ocean and the San Francisco Bay results in moisture, low clouds, and fog. Look for nearby alternate airports like Oakland International Airport. It’s just a few miles away from San Francisco, but tends to be much clearer, making it a safer bet for Bay Area travel. Tip: There are other ways than holding a first- or business-class ticket to get airport lounge access. At least half a dozen U.S. airlines offer annual or day lounge passes. Priority Pass, a third-party company, sells lounge access. Some credit cards also function as passes. Read the fine print; lounge access doesn’t mean freebies. Food, drinks, and in many cases wireless Internet are available for a fee. Tip: FLYsmart is an application for the iPhone and Android with complete terminal directories. Track down your gate, flight arrivals and departures and amenities like nearby ATMs and shops. If you're a real travel nerd, tune into what the pilots are saying through the LiveATC Air Radio app. It taps into live air traffic audio feeds, so you can hear what's happening out there in real-time. GateGuru, another popular one, hones in on airport restaurants. If there's a service you need chances are there will is an app for it. ADDITIONAL RESOURCES Alternate airports: US Department of Transportation Bureau of Transportation Statistics: Hop Stop Subway or Bus Directions: Chapter 3 ACCOMMODATIONS Something tells me you’ve been down this road before—probably many times: You jump on a great airfare, but then get nailed on hotel costs. After all, many destinations are inexpensive to get to, but outrageously expensive to be in. If you’re traveling overseas, the fluctuations in foreign currency values can easily put you in financial jeopardy. People often ask me, “When is the best time to stay at a hotel?” Here’s my answer: When everyone else isn’t staying there. Avoid peak travel times like midweek in Manhattan, Super Bowl weekend in the host city, the Consumer Electronics Show week in Las Vegas, and other obvious periods. More or less forget about the peak summer months, after Memorial Day and before Labor Day. Take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. In some cases, that can mean after a major crisis. Newly reopened hotels in New Orleans booked at rock-bottom rates after Hurricane Katrina. Deals appeared in the Caribbean during the long rebuilding process after hurricanes Ivan in 2004, and Gustav in 2008, as well as in Mexico after Hurricane Wilma in 2005. I encouraged people to take advantage of reduced fees, hotel deals, and sparse crowds during the 2010 protests in Thailand. The economic imperative to get the travel and tourism industry back on track is so strong and overwhelming that tourism infrastructure is often the first industry up and running after crisis. After the civil unrest in Egypt in 2011, tourism was back before a new election with no crowds being the difference—a contrarian traveler’s dream. And then, of course, there are the “dead” weeks in the travel industry. Nobody is traveling during the week immediately following Thanksgiving or after New Year’s. During those 2 weeks, no one is traveling. They are simply still recovering. Hotels are so empty guests can just about go bowling in the hallways. Ski Season Steals Here's the deal on scoring affordable ski vacations: Hit the slopes at the right time to find significant deals. If you see a promoted deal, find out if there are blackout dates. These will tip you off to the resort's high season. Depending on the year, the high season for ski resorts falls between December 18 and January 2. Presidents Day weekend is another heavy traffic period for skiers. If the high season can’t be avoided, it’s best to stay midweek. Getting the Inside Line on Great Hotel Deals Don’t solely depend on online deals. Whether directly through the hotel or a third-party, online booking sites often "guarantee" the lowest rates. I’ve found better deals with a little extra work and some phone calls. I checked hotels rates in four cities (Chicago, Dayton, New York, and Phoenix), two months in advance, for a Friday/Saturday night stay. I used Hotels.com, an online travel booking Web site (e.g. Kayak, Expedia, Orbitz, or Travelocity), the hotel's direct Web site, and talked to both the hotel's reservation desk and the hotel's director of sales to negotiate the rate for frequent visitors. In each case, talking to a manager or director of sales landed the lowest rate. Don’t call a hotel’s 800 number to make reservations. Those calls go directly to a national center with limited ability to provide discounted rates. Call the hotel's direct line, but do not ask for the reservation department; they’re likely to reroute you back to the 800 number. Ask to speak to a manager on duty or a director of sales for the most information on how political unrest, weather troubles, and other events are affecting reservation rates. That puts you in a better negotiating position. Even if a deal isn’t advertised, ask if your hotel or resort can throw in a ski lift pass or extra night—whatever it takes to get your business. Tip: I’m a big believer in consulting user-generated review sites to determine the quality of a hotel as long as there is a vetting process and the number of users has reached a critical mass. At sites like Tripadvisor.com and Travelpost.com, even if a glowing “review” from a property’s general manager sneaks through, there are enough legitimate reviews based on real experiences to give you an accurate picture. Affordable Stays Saving on hotel costs doesn’t have to mean staying with friends of friends or sleeping in bunk beds with backpackers. Just be willing to think outside of the box. Monasteries Save money by sleeping with monks? Not quite, but monasteries and convents can be extremely cost-effective places to spend a night and get a (usually vegetarian) meal. You do have to follow the rules that may include quiet or silent periods and curfews, and put up with sparse accommodations such as shared bathrooms and, in some cases, no double beds! Religious accommodations are prevalent throughout Italy, Spain, France, and England. They’re also popular in parts of Eastern Europe, Asia, and—surprise—right here in the United States. How cheap? Istituto Maria Santissima Bambina in Vatican City starts around $60.00 per person for a double room. Rila Monastery outside of Sofia, Bulgaria can cost as little as $15.00 a night. In fact it has become such a tourist attraction that rooms fill up weeks in advance. Mount Saviour Monastery near Elmira, New York costs a suggested $45.00 a night. Some monasteries are so devout that they tend to cater to pilgrims, not just budget travelers. They might not charge visitors more than a few token dollars, but require them to attend prayer services and follow the rules to the letter. Monastery and convent bookings can be tricky. The Church of Santa Susanna offers listings of convent accommodations throughout Rome and Vatican City. Monastery Stays is a booking service with comprehensive listings of Italian monasteries and convents. Religious orders tend to have a limited Web presence, but there are several guidebooks and directories of monastic and convent guesthouses. If you can’t call, fax, or e-mail in advance get help setting up your stay with the country’s or city’s tourism board, or with a specific religious order. Istituto Maria Santissima Bambina, 39-06-6989-3511 Rila Monastery, Mount Saviour Monastery, The Church of Santa Susanna, Monastery Stays, Capsule Hotels Capsule or “pod” hotels are still something of a Japanese phenomenon, but the concept behind these compact, affordable rooms is catching on. The idea came from Japanese businessmen who often miss the last train home, and stay in rooms just 3 x 3 x 7 feet with only a bed and maybe a wall-mounted television. Larger-scale capsule hotels, often with private bathrooms, exist in a few major cities for as low as $50.00 a night. It works for travelers, who aren’t prone to claustrophobia, in need of just a place to sleep and shower. EasyHotels is owned by the same people who operate the budget airline EasyJet, and currently has locations in London and Luton, England, Switzerland, Cyprus, and Hungary. Each tiny room —some as small as 65 square feet—includes a cubicle bathroom. Like the airline, each amenity like linen changes and TV access is provided at an extra fee. EasyHotels, The Qbic Hotel chain properties located in Amsterdam and Maastricht in the Netherlands and Antwerp, Belgium promotes itself as “cheap, chic & no frills.” These futuristic, Philippe Starck designed,75-foot-square rooms (a.k.a. Cubis) feature en suite bathrooms, Wi-Fi, and LCD televisions. The earlier you book, the cheaper the room. Qbic Hotel, The Pod Hotel, located in NYC, is a good example of a discount hotel for people on a tough times budget. This hotel has accommodations at a variety of price points including suits with shared bathrooms for those willing to give up a little privacy to save a little extra cash. The Pod Hotel, New York is also home to the Yotel brand’s first U.S. property. Originally located at European airports—London Heathrow, London Gatwick, and Amsterdam Schiphol—the Times Square outpost promises 170-square-foot guest rooms with free breakfast and Wi-Fi at affordable prices. Yotel, Das Park hotel in Linz, Austria consists of industrial concrete sewage tubes re-purposed into small suites with double bed and basic amenities. Guests share bathrooms, and it's pay-what-you-wish for the reservation and pay-as-you-go for “luxuries” like electricity, and shower facilities. This concept was such a success that the company opened a second venue in Bottrop-Ebel, Germany. Das Park hotel, Tip: Hotel Chatter is a resource for the latest and strangest hotel related news. In December 2008 it reported that rates for the Palace Station Casino Hotel, the hotel/crime scene of the O. J. Simpson robbery, started at $24.00 per night during the week and $39.00 on weekends. What About Hotel Frequent-Stay Programs? All those points earned for stays at major hotel brands can pay off. Blackout periods are being removed, and fewer people are traveling, so there is now room available. It’s definitely the time to burn those points, especially at expensive overseas hotels and resorts with limited availability. Timing, as they say, is everything. Domestic hotel rates are so attractive that you might want to hold on to your points and pay instead. The key is that rooms are vacant, so if you have points to spare, now is the time to take advantage The Art of Bartering The art of bartering isn’t dead; it has taken on a new form. From trading nights on couches to weeks in entire homes, travelers now rely on the Internet to find one of the best deals out there: staying for free. CouchSurfing and GlobalFreeloaders are two tried-and-true services for travelers to find a spare couch or guest bed. The average user age is 25, so couch surfing or swapping has become a popular option for travelers looking to skip the youth hostel. Hands-on hosts often become built-in tour guides, and useful insider resources. There’s no charge, but crashers/swappers are expected to reciprocate with another participant. CouchSurfing encourages but doesn’t require this, but GlobalFreeloaders does. Worried about security? Word-of-mouth vouching systems, personal profiles, and an optional credit card verification system are some of the vetting methods. A newer service takes things one step further by letting hosts rent out…airbeds. AirBed & Breakfast’s peer-to-peer service facilitates rentals of any available space from an inflatable mattress to a spare bedroom for about $50.00 to $100.00 a night. It currently covers more than 644 cities in 69 countries. It became an especially popular option for Washington, DC-area locals during President Barack Obama’s inauguration. Unlike other peer-to-peer services like Craigslist or local newspapers, this site allows online reservations and payments through PayPal. A similar service called Roomorama offers apartment rentals in cities like New York City, Boston, Chicago, Rome, Paris, and Amsterdam. Renters are vetted via a rating system and payments are handled online. Another site called iStopOver.com allows travelers to book short-term rentals whether it’s for a day, a week, or several months at a time.

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- Restaurants | - Nightlife | - Shopping | - Movies | - All Amelia's Restaurant Category: Restaurants Latin American Latin American [Edit]2042 Broadway St Redwood City, CA 94063 (650) 368-1390 - Hours: Mon-Thu 10 am - 9 pm Fri-Sat 10 am - 9:30 pm Sun 9 136 reviews for Amelia's Restaurant Review Highlights - "The 'chopped fruit drink' is a must try." In 8 reviews - - "Finally, found a great el salvadorian restuarant." In 4 reviews 136 reviews in English Review from Jonathan A. - 33 friends - 36 reviews Burlingame, CA I have been coming here for pupusas since I was a child. This is the only place I go to get them. I you don't know/haven't tried a papusa...get your rear end into this place ASAP! I would suggest ordering a few of the chicken, cheese and beans pupusas. And I never knew until I saw someone doing it, but the pickled cabbage tastes really good on top, too! Don't forget to stop by the salsa bar, the red ones are great. Another thing to get is their horchatas. Mmm mmm good! Besides their pupusas being amazing, they also have a full menu of typical Mexican food options. I haven't tried many other things here, but I can tell you that their tamales are also good. Review from Brian C. What in the world is a pupusa?! If you really want to know, Amelia's Restaurant is a great way to be introduced to this Salvadorean specialty which is pretty much a quesadilla-empanada-pancake-patty thingy stuffed with your choice of meat and/or cheese and/or beans, etc. with cole slaw included on the side as an optional topping. Amelia's may have the best local offering of pupusas. But this is not exactly breaking news - it seems to be a well-established fact around these parts! Which pupusa fillings are the best? Not sure. But I recommend at least one cheese-only pupusa for a beginner. It's least likely to disappoint you. Carne asada may be the best meat option. The free tortilla chips here can be decently fresh and crispy as they were on our most recent visit. To accompany the chips, I recommend the salsa verde (green salsa) for the best balance of flavor and spice. But if you can't hang with spicy things, please stick with whatever you can handle (mild?). The platanos / fried plantain plate is always enjoyable. It comes with a side of cream and your choice of pinto / black beans. It's an odd combo conceptually, but it actually does help to distinguish it from other fried plantains served by non-Salvadorean restaurants. As much as I love fried plantains as it is traditionally served, I'm starting to think that it has untapped potential. I'm thinking that somebody (Amelia's?) might need to break out of the mold and try a dessert version of fried plantains with cinnamon ice cream on the side or something.... I digress.... Please note that Amelia's sells ENTREE-SIZED servings of plantains! So prepare to share if you are just looking for a side. They also serve a delightful, refreshing fruit salad drink (ensalada de frutas). I recommend keeping a spoon or fork handy so that after slurping up as much healthy goodness as you can through a straw, you can make sure that the chopped fruit left at the bottom of your cup doesn't end up going by the wayside....oink-oink.... Amelia's sells at least one other "exotic," non-alcoholic beverage that is easy to miss if you don't already know about it - it's a Salvadorean orange and cream soda which my Salvadorean buddy always gets....sorry, I forgot the name....but it's sort of orangish-red in color, and it's served in a bottle. On our most recent visit, we pretty much played it safe by ordering pupusas, platanos and fruit salad drinks based both on Yelp reviews and past experience. Thankfully, we all enjoyed a very pleasant, casual dinner at this family-friendly (albeit somewhat noisy) restaurant. Next time, I might have to bust out and try some other things on their fairly extensive menu. Review from Susan L. i love pupusas, thank you to my friend ron for introducing me to this place. the only con: the place isn't that clean. so, if you're into good food but with a C rating for cleanliness, this is the place to go! will i go back? probably while i'm pregnant and craving Salvadoran food. make sure to order their fruit drink, can't miss it when you're at the register. Review from Robert B. The tables are NOT sticky, the chips are NOT stale, the bathroom was clean, the dining room is comfortable taqueria ambiance. I had the chili verde plate for dinner, it was tasty an tender and a nice level of heat. The little salad that came with it was good too. Also liked the hot red sauce from the salsa bar. Definitely would come back. No beer though, but not a show stopper for me. Review from Jason W. When I used to work in Redwood City, I must have passed by this place a million times and not noticed it. When my friend suggested we meet there for dinner, I was like, "where?" Seriously though, it's a very nondescript restaurant: small sign, bare dining area, few decorations, seat yourself, old furniture, faded paint, etc. Oh shoot! I just described it, didn't I? Anyway, the restaurant is mainly standard Mexican fare, but with a few Salvadoran options. I felt horribly indecisive while looking at the menu, so I just went with the carnitas dinner. Carnitas is my standard to measure against for any new Mexican restaurant I go to. I look for preparation (fried vs. roasted), flavor (stew meat or nicely seasoned), variety (regional flavors like cochinita pibil) and funny bit ratio (some fat is understandable). In the Bay Area, it's hard to find carnitas that aren't fried and flavorless. When my meal showed up, it came in a neat little stone bowl; kind of like some prop you'd see Mola Ram put a beating heart in. The bowl was stuffed with roasted pork with a small amount of pico de gallo and what may have been a little chicken broth. Around the edge of the bowl were three large plantains. The meat was very flavorful and tender. Yeah, there were funny bits, but nothing that really freaked me out. The plantains were awesome and a nice touch! The meal came with rice and beans, avocado, and some corn tortillas. Yum! My wife and friend all tried papusas which they really liked. Criticisms? A few. The staff are friendly and attentive, but they don't all speak the best of English, so it's hard to get some things sorted out in a timely manner. The place could use a coat of paint and some new furniture. The bathroom was kind of scary. The salsa is alright (the hot one is great, but the other two are blah). I'll definitely come here again and try the Salvadoran dishes next time! Review from Ava V. I decided to go to this restaurant upon the great deal from groupon. However I did not care for their food , its over priced and tasted bland. My friend and I ordered the shrimp in the spicy sauce and the also the green mole sauce...yuk...the rice was bland needed salt, and the shrimp tasted like rubber BUT the best thing of the meal was the tortillas. I would say this place is not at all authentic but trying to be an upscale kind of authentic mexican restaurant. I will never eat here again but hey "KUDOS" for trying to be Mexican with a non latin, mexican kind of I don't know what flare...... P.S. the prices were minimum $21.00 and for that not even a little bit of chips or bread etc....the service was slow there was one waitress for the entire section... Review from Crystal K. Los Angeles, CA I'm not a fan of Amelia's. I'm a fan of hole the wall establishments but this place is just gross. Think sticky tables and stale chips that have been sitting on the table for who knows how long... The food is below average. They're supposedly known for their pupusas. The pupusas are so greasy to the point where I had to blot the oil off with a napkin. I haven't tried anything else on their menu and probably never will. Review from Randy W. I tried the pupusas on a recommendation and although they tasted good they were extremely greasy. I ate one & half of another and within an hour I felt queasy enough to require some soda water. It's a great deal; for less than $8 you can pack in a bazillion calories. The dining room itself is pretty shabby looking and I found myself just trying to focus on my plate for fear of losing my appetite if I looked around. The staff is friendly with minimal English spoken. Review from Bebe W. I would give this place 3.5 stars if I could. Basically, the draw here is the food and not the ambiance. I had a pupusa and a pinto bean tamale. This was the first pupusa I had so i don't have anything to compare it to. i liked it enough to try it again. the salvadorean style tamales are a little more savory and thinner than the mexican style that I am used to. When you go, you need to head to the back and place your order. Then once your order is placed, you'll receive a number. you can then pick a table, and get your water, chips and salsa. Although they have two front doors, only one of them is operational. Pros 1. homestyle authentic salvadorean food 2. really affordable 3. unlimited chips and salsa 4. easy parking 5. deceptively spacious 6. good for groups - affordable for all Cons 1. minimal English here. Get ready to do a lot of menu pointing. 2. sticky menus and tables 3. like another yelper said, the place is "shabby looking" - not shabby chic but just shabby. Review from Y r. This is a updated review. Me the wife decided to try Amelias again. I haven't had good luck with my other pupusa place and I being feenin for some. Wow pupusas were off the hook. They were really good even the wife like them and she's hella picky. But they were really good, cheesy of course but had the flavor that you know it should. I had the bean and cheese. Also had the fried plantanos with beans and sour cream damm that was good. Upgrade from a 2 to a 4. I'm out. 1 Previous Review: Show all » So I recently had lunch at Amelia's. Last time I was there was at least 3-4 years ago. I used to buy… Read more » Review from Nic C. Down home restaurant, with great pupusas. If you're adventurous try the Salvadoranean tamale, it's wrapped in a banana leaf. No frills type of place, with great homestyle food. Review from Kay M. Oh Amelia's, how I love your never-ending tortilla chips, tasty pupusas, and decadent 'fruit drink' (that's what it's called!). Come here for the pupusas, cause I can't vouch for any of the other stuff. I've had the plain cheese, bean and cheese, chicken n bean, loroco and cheese, whatever, they're delicious. One thing I miss is the Christmas decor. For years it was ALWAYS Christmas in Amelia's, and just recently this tradition seems to have gone the way of the dodo. Review from Jen H. There arent' that many Salvadorian restaurants around in the Bay Area. Papusas FTW! One order ($7.50) comes with 2 pupusas, rice, beans, and a tiny cup of salad (more like cole slaw). Salsa and chips are comp--self service. I tried two different pupusa: 1) Beef and Cheese (4.5/5) 2) Pork and Bean (3/5) An alternative to quesadillas and burritos :) Review from Adam T. If you come to Amelia's and order anything but the pupusas, you are making a mistake, both because the pupusas are SO good and because other things are SO bad. The boy and I did two pupusa plates - two pupusas on each, with rice and beans for about $7. We did the chicken, cheese, chorizo, and loroco pupusas. Each was good, but the chorizo and the loroco were the best of the four. The chicken had a slightly strange consistency, that I think I'd avoid in the future. We also got an order of fried plantains. They were just the right amount of sweet and crispy. Perfect. Really. They have unlimited chips and salsa that you serve yourself. The salsas were good, nothing stellar, but good. The place itself is cute. A little kitschy, but overall, cute. Would be back if I weren't leaving the peninsula next week. Review from Nathan E. Great local play in RWC. I'm not impressed by most of the menu. For example, on my first visit I tried the super burrito with chicken. But It just isn't my type of burrito. Too big, flimsy and bland. However they have one item which keeps me returning over and over again; The Bean, Cheese, and Pork Papusa. These are so delicious. The outside is perfectly cooked to have a crispy texture and a smooth flavoring. The inside balances the outside with moist filling and protein. Add some spicy hot sauce and a Corona and you're totally good to go. Perfect papusas take a while to prepare and so I like to order in advance on the phone. It can be really funny because the person who takes the order has extremely limited English. Be prepared to repeat the order 5 or 6 times and when she asks for you name, just say yes to whatever she calls you. Review from Michelle C. Belmont, CA I'm not going to say that these papusas are my favorite, because they aren't. Felt like they were way too greasy for my taste. They were good and tasty, but the overall feeling that I felt was heavy after eating them. I liked La Fiesta's papusas more for some reason, also in RWC. Think I'm strange. I will come back here for more, but I need to make sure that I have a strong stomach that day. Got the Bean & Cheese, Cheese, and Cheese and Loroco (green chili). Think they were $2.20 each? Review from Moe H. yes, their pupusas are good. They were not greasy like other reviewers have previously noted. Perhaps Amelia and staff are reading our comments and complaints and making the necessary adjustments? The fruit juice ('fresca de fruta') is also a must try, its a Restaurant special type of drink. Contains sliced strawberries, apples and a ton of other fruits and the combination is always consistent and delicious--a healthy alternative to coke or pepsi. Jorge (George) the food-server/bus-boy/matradee/all-around-friendly-a ttendant always works hard to ensure you have everything you need. This guy runs the floor pretty well--very hard worker. We also tried their Sopa de pata (beef soup), its was good and warmed us up from the cold weather. Great to have this family restaurant in Redwood City, hope they continue to stay in business for years to come. Review from Daisy R. This place is gross! Its dirty looking and I'm not a big fan of the chips sitting on the tables just waiting for someone to sit at the table. The pupusas are way tooo greasy and leave a funny after taste, perhaps its lard they use? I once ordered a chicken chicken burrito and MAGAWD it was OVERLY salted. I had one bite and I was done with it! Ive been here several times thinking "maybe next time it will be better" but nope it still hasn't changed my perspective on this establishment. Review from Joseph J. A reliable, affordable place to get Mexican/Salvadorean food. It definitely has a local, family-run atmosphere ;-) Review from Jessica V. - 3 friends - 15 reviews San Jose, CA First, let me say that the five star review is a reflection on the pupusas ONLY. It's the first thing I ever ate there (on recommendations from others) and, as they were OUT OF THIS WORLD, I never tried anything else. I can assume that the rest of their menu is fine, but have no idea. Frankly, you may not need to try the rest of their menu either, if you have a pupusa first. Friends, the pupusas at Amelia's are The Best in the Bay Area. I'm not kidding. I've tried a bunch of other places from SF to San Jose and haven't found anyone's as good. The keys here are the freshness, choices, service, price and sides. Your pupusas are handmade fresh when you order them with whatever filling you want (I am a fan of beans, cheese and lorocco, but my husband swears by the pork), served by friendly folks for a decent price (the plate which has beans, rice and slaw is under $10) with excellent side items (slaw is outstanding!) and you can always get a real Coke in a bottle. The owner (Amelia? Is that you?) is a part of the community there and can be found feeding the less fortunate who straggle in, between taking orders and serving paying customers. And, before I end this rave review, let me say that the ambiance is not to be missed because there's nothing more amusing than enjoying delicious food in a restaurant that's perpetually decorated for Christmas while listening to Latin covers of American 80s tunes. Hysterical! I would move in here if Amelia would have me. Listed in: Best Pupusas Review from Rylan C. The food is good but they forgot our friends' orders. They made it right though by comping their meal and offering a free meal when they return. It was very nice of them. Besides that little gaffe, the pupusas were delicious and the fruit drinks they had were yummy. The unlimited chips and salsa were also a nice touch. I would come back if I'm in the area but it's not really a place I'd go out of the way to go to. Review from Amanda S. I had never even heard of a pupusa until I came here, once I tried one I was a huge fan! I get the pork, beans and cheese pupusa with curtido and guac. Since I've been here I've tried other places for pupusas in the south bay closer to home and so far no one comes even close to Amelias. Very addictive! Not a very fancy place..but great food! Review from Tarra R. Went here with a co-worker. I had read some reviews and invited her to try it. She has had pupusas before but this was my first time. I enjoyed the variety they offer here and decided on a plate that came with 2 choices of pupusa, beans, plantains and the toppings for the pupusas of course. I saw a plastic cup in the back and the guy that took our order told us this was their version of aguas frescas and they make it fresh daily. I had to order one. I loved everything. Note above this is my first time trying a pupusa so I cannot compare it to anything else. All I know is they were yummy! The agua fresca was awesome. once the water was gone there were a ton of little pieces of fruit at the bottom of the cup that i spooned out and ate as dessert. A refreshing end to a very filling meal (Lots left over) Review from Nelson W. I'll confess up front that I didn't try the pupusas. I had a chille relleno and a taquito al pastor. Both were excellent. My dining colleague had a deep fried red snapper. The whole fish, head and all, was served. He liked it. We went in mid June, so I think it would be safe to assume that the Christmas decorations are up year round. Not only were there Christmas lights, but there were red bows, fake holly, and a pretty good sized nativity scene over the front door. You can expect that ordering from the cashier and getting food delivered to your table will take a while, but the overall experience was pretty good. Next time, it'll be the pupusas for me. Listed in: R-O-T-D in the USA Review from Flor D. SUPPORT FAMILY OWNED LOCAL BUSINESS JOINTS Its' funny how the name states "Amelia's Mexican Restaurant," but I have grown up to know it as a good place for El Salvadorean cuisine. My family has been coming here for years, and I think my dad even knows the owner. Either way...we are fans of the food. Love the Christmas decorations in the window...and the flavorful food. Definitely like that they have an option between Mex and EL Sal food. Like the variety of choices, the chips on the table, and the food. Try the ensalada drink for something unique...and don't forget to say hello to Amelia ;) Listed in: Mom and Pop Shops, Si Se Puede...estilo VIVA…, PUPUSANATOR Review from Earl G. Stumbled into this place because I was looking for a new/different place to eat while I had to serve (everyone's favorite) some jury duty. Yay. The courthouse isn't too far away and it's mostly hot dog stands and chains restaurants around so this family run restaurant was a welcome sight. You'll probably need a passport if you wanted some pupusas and tamales this good and legit. Oh my, the tamales are soo good and you can order them either El Savadorean or Mexican style. With El Salvadorean being just plain, without anything dressing whatsoever. I decided to go Mexican and have my tamale drenched in red sauce and melted cheese. Wow, the maza for the tamale itself had a different texture from other tamales I've had in the Mission or wherever but I like them. These tamales are guilty of being buttery, soft, airy, light, and overall damm tasty. Perfect for making other perspective jurors in the courthouse jealous. Listed in: Good Mexican Eats, Non-Mexican Latino Food Review from Luz P. I have been coming here for many years... but I don't think I'll ever come back again. During my last two visits I have been overcharged twice! Is that a mistake or is Mrs. Amelia trying to rip people off? The first overcharged was in December. We always usually get the same amount of pupusas; however, we noticed the total was about $5-6 dollars more than usual. My mom being the smart woman she is... decided to add up our total, and it did not match Mrs. Amelia's! We brought this up to her attention and she returned $5.50 back to us. And of course, she was upset and didn't even apologize for her mistake. The second overcharged was about 3 weeks ago. Once again, my mom and I came in to pick-up some pupusas to go. We ordered 4 pupusas, an order of platanos and 2 drinks. We went sat down to wait for our order and as we checked the receipt we noticed that she charged us for 3 drinks and something else for 1.50. We went back to the counter and asked for clarification. She said sorry for charging for the extra drink, but the $1.50 charge was for cheese. Anyways, we ended up getting our money back. I honestly can't trust coming to this place again.... Listed in: Only in Redwood City... 1 Previous Review: Show all » It always feel like Christmas at Amelia's! If you're wondering if the decorations haven't been taken… Read more » Review from Shannon L. Fremont, CA 3.5 stars for solid pupusas. I've had it at various establishments and I'm either dissatisfied with the maza or the filling. Maza because it can get dry and the filling because sometimes it's just not flavorful enough. But here, they make all the elements satisfyingly. I got the loroco/queso and the pork/queso one. Both were so delicious! The cheese is gooey, the maza is fluffy, and the meat is seasoned adequately. I believe the best part is when a little of the cheese leaks out as they are grilling it and forms a crusty edge. So lovely. The only sadness is that it's really oily and if the edges of your pupusa curls up at all, then all the oil will collect in the middle. Also, it didn't come with the cabbage mix that you usually eat with it. Instead, it came with a side salad; at least that was fresh. Lunch Special = Two pupusas + beans + rice = $7.95. Loud music up in here. I probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't already had a huge, allergy-induced headache from all the nature outside. The folk here are so friendly! Review from Moxy T. In my humble opinion the pupusas were to die for! The boyfriend was not as impressed as I. He agreed they are some of the better he has had..whatever I was shoveling that stuff in! My belly was nice and round when we left and I was counting the minutes I could come back! It's hit or miss w/the chips, could be fresh could be stale. There is always a little ol'man in the corner, DO NOT SIT AT HIS TABLE..I REPEAT DO NOT SIT AT HIS TABLE! He is definitely family in this family owned business and you may in fact be taken in back and shot. He is in fact fun to watch. About every 15 min or so he gets up slowly from the table and shuffles in to the kitchen carrying his bowl of ( I assume) Menudo. Once I was there for 45 minutes and he went back and forth from the kitchen 5 times! And he is skinny! I have not branched out to anything other than the pupusas but friends are pretty happy with the tacos. Review from Charlene E. - 27 friends - 176 reviews Placentia, CA I love Amelia's! I haven't had anything but Pupusa's but both times I've been there, I've left very full and very happy. I've tried the cheese, chicken & cheese and pork & cheese and found them all equally yummy. The rice and beans are good too. I am a chips and salsa fanatic and I think my husband and I went through 2 entire baskets by ourselves the other night. So good! We were there last Saturday night with a very large party and I was impressed that we all got exactly what we ordered without much of a wait. Review from Tony A. Last Thursday (10-8-09), me and some co-workers had to attend a training class. When we broke for lunch, we all himmed and hawwed where to go for lunch. I suggested we walk the four blocks to Amelia's, since I had not been there in over six years. I told my co-workers that from what I remembered, they had some of the best tasting Pupusas around. We made it to Amelia's, I ordered a Pupusa, rice and beans ala carte. The total cost of my lunch, including the Snapple ice tea was $9.99. When my lunch made it to the table, it looked and smelled great. And when I dove in, man it was good. These are still some of the best Pupusas around IMO. The beans were good and the rice okay, but I didn't go there for either. I left 100% satisfied that I got my $$$ worth. Review from Laura 'jinx.tv' K. - 31 friends - 92 reviews Redwood City, CA Amelia's is a great place to go if you've had a little too much to drink. The only problem is, they close at 9pm every night. You have to start drinking early if you want to be buzzing by the time you get here. Fortunately, Savvy Cellar is located right next door to this place, and Sunday afternoons are the perfect time to go to the wine tastings at Savvy and then they will kick you out about seven and you can hop over to Amelia's for some delicious papusas. You will probably even have your order taken by Amelia herself. AND you could even keep drinking with some beer or sangria, although I recommend the horchata instead. However, alcoholics take note: this is really more of a family restaurant. It can be quite busy and full of families sometimes, which is probably why I walked by here hundreds of times before I ever set foot inside. I want to see that a place is busy enough that it probably doesn't suck, but isn't so crowded I feel my personal space being encroached upon. Plus, I generally prefer places where they take my order right at the table. (I'll make an exception for Amelia's, though. I kind of dig the way you order at the counter, get the food brought to your table and then are left mostly in peace to enjoy the picnic table and eternal xmas decoration ambiance.) The first time I came here, I had kind of forgotten that we did by the next morning. Blame it on an amazing red blend tasting with some very generous pours at Savvy Cellar. We drank so much red wine that we even decided going to see "Lars and the Real Girl" was a good idea. Then, a vague memory of the tasty, tasty papusas came flooding back to me and I knew we had to go back, even though my bf tried to claim we were 86'd from this place after I danced on the tables. If we're around Broadway in Redwood City on a Sunday, I don't even have to say anything. I just turn and look at my bf and he says "Noooo...not Amelia's AGAIN!" All hail the mighty cheese and bean papusa. Review from Lolia S. Love the kitschy decor - Christmas year round mixed with Mexican relics. There's an illuminated Nativity scene inside, in the nook above the entrance. My friends like the upbeat music. We were excited to find a self-serve salsa bar with three kinds of salsa and those pickled carrots and peppers that I like. I like the pupusas. They're filling - all that masa and you can choose from about ten different fillings (some vegetarian ones as well, including beans and cheese, as well as cheese with some Salvadorean vegetable). They come with the shredded cabbage slaw. Good slaw, though I've had better slaw with more tang. I did have a bad grilled chicken burrito. It came with a lot of chicken but the chicken didn't have much grilled flavor and it was dry. It was also in huge pieces rather than cut up into small bits. I've never had a chicken burrito with such large pieces of meat. It came with rice and beans. Even after dousing it with salsa, it was bland. My friend didn't like his enchiladas at all. You order at the counter (cash only) and they bring you your food. Tables are plentiful on the inside and there are a few outside tables. Help yourself to the water and the free chips and salsa. Review from Jessie R. The good: Great pupusas. My favorite is the chicharron, queso, y frijoles, though the loroco is good too. Definitely ask for extra curtido (fermented cabbage salad), it's refreshing and delicious with the warm beans and melted cheese of the pupusas. I agree with the other reviewer who loves when a bit of the cheese oozes out during cooking and forms a flavorful crust. It is also economical: two pupusas cost less than $5.00. The bad: no alcohol, oily chips that sit out on the tables all day, and it's often very noisy inside - which is a perfect reason to eat outside by the flowerpots and people watch in the sun! Review from Meg K. This place is five stars in my opinion for the FRUIT DRINK! A juice drink swimming with yummy fresh fruit... Also, the papoosas are quite good. Review from Misha T. I say PU you say PUSA!!! PU!!! (PUSA!!) PU!!! (PUSA!!) PU!!! (PUSA!!) Yea they're pupusas are pretty good. But it's their Chicken Encebollado that is facemeltingly tasty. I don't know what it tastes like besides delicious but you should get it. And you shouldn't share because you'll be wanting to keep that delicious chicken for yourself. folks there are nice too! I need to get on my salvadoran food more fo realsies Review from evelyn a. I'm from LA Where about 80% salvadorians live ... But man this restaurant beats LA pupusas. I had rebueltas and it was the best I've ever had. Will definitely come here again when I'm up north... Review from Amy H. Hitting this place last night before seeing Juno, my friends and I found our food tasty and fresh. I loved my cheese papusas, but did not really care for my cheese enchilada plate. Yes, there was a ton of food and it was good, but it was about 3x more expensive than my papusas and not as filling by a long shot. Oh well, serves me right for not ordering more papusa! Ambiance is loud and bright, warm and friendly! A nice place to stop before an outrageously expensive movie. Review from Paul M. Amelia's Restaurant is my favorite place to get popusas. I could literally eat a dozen popusas here every day and still come back the next day. Review from Katrina O. - 47 friends - 107 reviews Sunnyvale, CA Cash and ATM only.. Every time I go and I try something new, my rating drops. Blah. . Pretty typical and yummy mexican food. I default to a carne asada burrito... it was good, but not supurb. Really heavy on the rice (i.e. cheap filler) and the tortilla was really tough, no way to cut it with just a fork. I'd eat there again, but I'm going to explore around to see if I can find something better. ... Update: 2/23/07 Tried the $6.99 Tamale lunch platter. Good, not great. They overcompensated on the corn in the tamale and shortchanged on the meat. ... Update: April 2007 Tried the Tostada Salad. HORRIBLE. 100% totally HORRIBLE. It seemed like a layer of refried bean JUICE (no actual beans seen) mixed with slabs of beef (not in a good way, in that moms-nasty-roast-beef way), layer of lettuce, and two HUGE piles of Guac and sour cream.

Return to Transcripts main page ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL Will Casey Walk?; New Lawsuit Pending Against Casey Aired July 6, 2011 - 19:00:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As to the charge of first-degree murder, verdict as to count one, we, the jury, find the defendant not guilty. JOSE BAEZ, CASEY`S ATTORNEY: Casey did not murder Caylee. It`s that simple. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just a crying shame, an absolute crying shame, this is. They call this justice? They say the American flag flies today? It does not. It does anything but fly today. It`s been trampled on today. JESSE GRUND, CASEY`S FORMER FIANCE: I treat the Casey that I was engaged to like she was dead. She doesn`t exist anymore. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that she could walk. I mean, look, she`s already served three years in jail. BELVIN PERRY, JUDGE: Not guilty of the crime contained in the count. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a very dysfunctional family. She`s the only one who knows what happened to her little girl, and I guess she`ll just have to live with it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE:: Well, you`re looking at it, mass outrage tonight over the mind-blowing verdict. Hello, everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. I`m coming to you live from Orlando. Public uproar, getting loud here in Orlando. The courthouse is right behind me. And it`s getting louder by the minute. Anger really emanating from every social media outlet. People are in shock. In shock. And we are counting down now to the moment when Casey Anthony may walk out of the courthouse, for the first time without handcuffs. Her sentence will be handed down, within hours at 9 a.m. tomorrow morning. Mark it on your calendar, keep it here on HLN, because we`re all over this. Orlando is bracing for Casey Anthony quite possibly becoming a free woman. It sure looks like that. But where could she go? It`s not like they can drop her in the middle of town in a mall or the movie theater and say, "See you." The question now becomes what is Casey`s next move. Tonight, reports are claiming relatives of Cindy are actually offering sanctuary in an unlikely spot. Check this out. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t know if they`re going to come here or if they`re going to go to a hotel. That`s another call tonight, that we have offered our help or assistance or a place to just get away where they won`t be followed and tracked. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think, Dana, that Casey`s coming to Houston after she gets out of jail on Thursday? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been discussed. (end video clip) VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Houston, Texas. is she going to head to Houston, Texas and take up a new life there? Will she flee Florida? It actually makes sense. I mean, it does make sense that she would head out of town to a place like Houston. But as early as tomorrow right after court? According to that rally, and bear in mind, this is an unconfirmed report. We`re going to point that out to you. Casey might be going to Houston with her mom Cindy in tow. All of this as the jurors in the case finally come out of the woodwork and speaking. Today, juror No. 3, that 32-year-old student by the name of Jennifer Ford, spoke out. She declared there was simply not enough evidence to convict Casey, saying, quote, "I did not say she was innocent. We were sick to our stomach to get that verdict." Hmm. And alternate juror Russell Huekler breaks his silence, as well, over what turned the jury against the prosecution. Check out what he had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUSSELL HUEKLER, ALTERNATE JUROR: What came out was that this was a very dysfunctional family and they did not handle things well at all. George, Casey was to me, anyway, his testimony was not believable. And just how he wanted to spar with Mr. Baez. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BAEZ: Do you recall being on "48 Hours"? GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Yes, sir. BAEZ: And do you recall being paid $20,000 for that appearance? G. ANTHONY: You know, Mr. Baez, I have been nice to you. You`re trying to take this joy of my life away from me, sir, and you can`t do it any more. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: Questions about George Anthony, did they lead to Casey`s acquittal? Wow, we have so much analysis of this perplexing verdict, and we`re going to bring it to you in seconds. But first, we have got breaking news: word of a new lawsuit against Casey Anthony. HLN has revealed plans are in motion for Casey to be sued by the group that represents the thousands and thousands of people, volunteers who searched for Caylee. Check it out. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TIM MILLER, DIRECTOR, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: It is only fair to our donors that support us. If we were in Florida looking for a missing child, which Jose Baez`s words were was never missing, and we spent $112,000 right now, we are looking at our options for any legal recourse. And I think at this time, our options are legally at this point that we plan on filing a lawsuit against Casey for sure, possibly the Anthonys, possibly Jose Baez. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, now, this lawsuit isn`t even the first. Casey is also being sued by Zenaida Gonzalez, and we have Zenaida`s attorney with us here on ISSUES tonight. Casey`s money problems continue out of control. Are you keeping track? If she is released she will now have to face the IRS. She reportedly owes $68,520.41 in back taxes from 2008. How did she earn enough in 2008, the year her daughter vanished, the year she was arrested to have nearly $70,000 in unpaid taxes? Hmm. I want to hear from you. What are your theories? Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. You know what? I got to go straight to Tim Miller, because that`s the breaking news of the moment. Tim Miller, you are the director of Texas EquuSearch. You say that you are planning a lawsuit against Casey Anthony? Tell us about it. MILLER: Well, I just left my attorney`s office here, and we`re certainly, you know, looking at our options. I`m not saying that lawsuit is going to happen. But we`re certainly looking at the options. You know, I`ve spent a lot of time with them today. And I`m sure I`ll be with them again tomorrow. And again, we feel as though the money that was spent looking for a missing girl that was not missing, again, it is only fair to our donors that support us, that we have got to try to recover this money, if there`s any way possible. So, you know, it`s, I think, a real... VELEZ-MITCHELL: How much money did you spend -- how much money did you spend, Tim, looking for little Caylee? MILLER: One hundred and twelve thousand dollars, plus. And, you know, the other thing we discussed that, if Jose Baez knew this four months ago and we spent all that time in the courthouse and he was going through all our records and calling in volunteers and calling members and sending private investigators, knowing that -- that Caylee never was missing, I just don`t think we have a choice but to look at these options and possibly take some action on it. VELEZ-MITCHELL: What would be the basis of your lawsuit against Casey? MILLER: We are an organization that searches for missing people. We got called by Cindy Anthony. We did not go over there on our own. We did not call anybody and say, "Do you need our help?" They called, asked us for our help. We went there with nothing in our minds, no motives. It was to do the best we could possibly do to find this little missing girl, that, again, in Jose Baez`s opening statements was never missing. So I was used... VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. MILLER: Go -- go ahead, I`m sorry. VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, you say you were used. Finish your sentence and then we`re going to go on to other lawsuits. Finish your sentence. MILLER: Yes. I was used. We were lied to in the very beginning in the Anthony house. When -- when that juror said extremely dysfunctional family, I know firsthand after spending four days in there. And -- and here we are to help. They call us to help. I`m in the back yard. One of our members is in the house. And George Anthony walks in there and says, "Who`s this clown I`ve got to meet from Texas." I`m telling you we`re not circus clowns. We were there for one reason. This is how it all started. And so anyhow, for us it`s collecting on the money... VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me -- let me jump off here. I want to go to John Morgan. John, you represent Zenaida Gonzalez. You also have news about a lawsuit that you are in the process of working against Casey Anthony. Tell us what you did in terms of hitting her with papers at the jail? JOHN MORGAN, REPRESENTING ZENAIDA GONZALEZ: Our lawsuit`s been going on since the accusation was made. We filed it more as a defensive matter to say, because Zenaida`s life was falling apart. What we did last night is, because like you and like everybody, we don`t know where she`s going to be. So we served her with a subpoena in our action in jail. VELEZ-MITCHELL: You served Casey Anthony? MORGAN: Right. With a subpoena in our action to compel her. The reason we did it so early is we worry, if she leaves town, if she goes, will we ever get her served again? And so we want to do that so that we`re not searching the world to try to get process. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s try to get a photo or a video of Zenaida Gonzalez up when we talk about Zenaida Gonzalez. Now, will you depose Casey Anthony? Will you ask her the questions that the prosecutor wanted to ask her on cross-examination but was unable to ask her because she didn`t take the stand? MORGAN: Yes. We want to ask her all because -- because of the root of our case is the disappearance of the child, the loss of the child, the death of the child, and so we`re going to be asking all of those questions, because they`re very relevant to the underlying defamation. VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the opening of the lawsuit they admitted, there was no Zanny. There was no kidnapping. If you had one question to ask Casey Anthony, when you get her in this deposition, what would that question be? MORGAN: The question I would ask her is why did you choose this woman to destroy her life? Because that`s what you did. Remember, this woman... VELEZ-MITCHELL: Zenaida? MORGAN: Zenaida lost her job, lost her home, was having threats to kill her children by strangers. And when I first met Zenaida, she was an absolute shell of a person. She wouldn`t even go on TV. She wouldn`t even get her picture taken. VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re looking at video of Zenaida Gonzalez, and of course, in their opening statements, they admitted there is no Zanny the nanny. Meanwhile, her life is destroyed. She`s suing. Tim Miller is planning, as you heard, a lawsuit against Casey Anthony. So she`s got troubles to follow. We are taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586- 7297. All right. The outrage, the shock, the sadness builds after Casey Anthony is found not guilty and may walk free. When we come back, I`m going to talk to Jean Casarez about what we can expect in court at 9 a.m. tomorrow morning. totally shocked. I mean, with everything that`s happened, it`s basically like you almost have to film and watch somebody commit a crime and have it on video for something to happen today. It`s just disturbing. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GRUND: There is a -- there is a plethora of evidence that says that Casey was the last person to see her alive and that Caylee`s body was disposed of in the woods. I think the problem is the prosecution never filled in the gap between these two things. Obviously, Casey was the last person to see Caylee alive. Obviously, someone took Casey`s -- Caylee`s body and put it in the woods. And obviously, this family knows more than what they said on the stand. I treat the Casey that I was engaged to like she is dead. She doesn`t exist any more. This person running around laughing in the courtroom while her murder trial is going on, who`s done everything she`s done, I don`t know her. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go straight out to Marcia Clark, who is the famous prosecutor from the O.J. Simpson case. Marcia, first of all, shocked by the verdict? MARCIA CLARK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Oh, yes. VELEZ-MITCHELL: You were? CLARK: I find this verdict much more shocking than the one in the Simpson trial. In the Simpson trial, there was a lot of foreshadowing long before we even picked the jury that things were going to go very much awry. We were warning the victims` families before -- I would say right after the preliminary hearing. I had a big meeting with the victim`s families. We told them we will not be able to secure a conviction in this case. It`s most likely that all we can hope for is a hung jury. And so it`s not that we didn`t fight. I mean, all we wanted to do then is prove everyone wrong and say, "Oh, no. We can still do it." But in this case there was the none of that kind of sense of doom or a possibility of division or other things intruding on the ability of the jury to reach a fair verdict. And I thought that the case was very compelling, and I thought that the evidence was all there to justify a verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Not necessarily premeditated homicide, but certainly some form of homicide, maybe just manslaughter. I am very, very, very shocked at this. VELEZ-MITCHELL: But here -- I don`t know if you heard our first block. We`ve got lawsuit after lawsuit heading to Casey. She is going to be subpoenaed, according, at least, to the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez. He wants to ask her all the questions that the prosecutor would have asked in cross-examination in a criminal trial, had Casey testified. Isn`t that an echo of eventually what happened to O.J. Simpson? It was the civil case, the wrongful death case in O.J. Simpson`s case, that kind of did him in a little bit. But isn`t that what happens in these cases? When somebody gets acquitted, everyone thinks they`re guilty. In the end, it`s the civil matters that -- that hang them up. CLARK: Well, it certainly happened in the Simpson case. And I -- but I don`t think it did in any of the others. Now, I can`t remember at this time what happened with Robert Blake. He was also acquitted of the murder of his wife. I don`t remember if there was a civil... VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, there was -- there was a civil, because it was kept until after the trial. I remember, yes. And I think that -- I don`t want to misspeak, but I think that it was good for the family of Bonny Lee Bakely. Because I remember interviewing them in a celebration after that civil trial. And -- but let me ask you this about the jurors. It`s unbelievable. TMZ is reporting, Marcia, that one of the jurors is entertaining a five- figure offer. He`s reportedly a married, college educated, 33-year-old while male with two young children. And the lawyer for this person, this juror, is reportedly telling TMZ that at least one major network has offered this juror, well, he says that he is entertaining a five-figure offer. How do you feel about that, Marcia? CLARK: You know, this is exactly why they enacted the rule after the Simpson case that prevents jurors from selling their stories for 90 days after the verdict, because it dissuades jurors from thinking they`re going to get into a high-profile case for the purpose of later selling a story. Exactly the problem we face. Let`s get this verdict in really fast and get a shocking verdict in, because the more shocking the verdict, the more likely it is to be a big story that will get big news, big coverage, big bucks. And in this case where everyone was really anticipating -- I won`t say everyone, but many people and I would certainly speak for myself. I was anticipating some kind of guilty verdict. The shocker is the "not guilty" of any homicide counts. And when you have a shocker like that, everybody wants to know why, and they want to hear the juror explain what happened in that jury room and why they came back the way they did. And that`s where the big bucks are. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. CLARK: That`s exactly what happened in the O.J. Simpson case, and that`s what`s happened here. VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re actually saying -- yes or no, because we`re tight on time -- that you believe that jurors could actually tell their -- actually make a decision knowing that a more shocking verdict would pay off for them more. Yes or no? CLARK: Well, they could. They could. Yes, Jane. They could. I`m not saying they did. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. CLARK: But they could and that`s why we need that law. VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Jean Casarez now. Sentencing 9 a.m. tomorrow morning. What`s going to happen? Give us a play by play. JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Hours away, there`s going to be argument, because prosecutors will want her to serve some time from these four misdemeanor convictions. Her attorneys will fight to be sentenced to time served. There will be a battle in the courtroom, but the reality is tomorrow night at this time, she could be out. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is there going to be testimony? CASAREZ: You know, they can put on witnesses, I believe, that are mitigating witnesses of all the good she`s done, never a problem in jail at all, just a model, model prisoner. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very quickly. Her taxes, her IRS, where is that from? You`ve got 20 seconds. CASAREZ: It`s money from a network, a client trust fund account from Jose Baez. He`s been taking care of it. Taxes weren`t paid. That`s the lien from the IRS. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Unbelievable. Once again, Casey Anthony owes the IRS almost $70,000 in 2008, the year her child died. You can`t make this stuff up. It`s unbelievable. We have more -- more really, really breaking news when we come right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There will be a book written. The only reason is for Casey to get out the story and explain what happened to her mind the day that that took place. She had a complete and total nervous breakdown. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now that was a distant cousin to Cindy Anthony saying, essentially, that the family has a book in the works. We`ll get to all of this in a second. But first the Orange County sheriffs already preparing for what could happen at the Anthony home after sentencing. Check this out. Incredible scene. You`re looking at mounted police, a whole army of them creating a barrier on Suburban Drive. This is the very area, the subdivision where the Anthonys live. They live on Hope Spring Drive, and that goes right into Suburban Drive. We`re getting reports that there was -- there have been threats. There have been death threats against George and Cindy. Now we are here with Mark Lippman, the attorney for the Anthony family. First of all, Mark, thank you for joining us. MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR ANTHONYS: Thanks for having me. VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about these threats? Tell us. LIPPMAN: It started about three minutes after the verdict came in. My office received a fax from a group of people that had the blog. And my clients are actually familiar with these particular people, and they do believe that, while they may not necessarily be coming down, we have to take everything seriously. VELEZ-MITCHELL: What did they say? LIPPMAN: That my clients deserve the same fate that Caylee had. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Really? LIPPMAN: Yes. VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s what they said? Your clients deserve the same fate as Caylee? LIPPMAN: Yes. VELEZ-MITCHELL: So that`s a death threat? LIPPMAN: It is. We`ve received 14 of them. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Fourteen death threats. That is absolutely astounding. Now, let me ask you: given that, it would certainly make a lot of sense for Casey Anthony if she is released tomorrow after sentencing, not to go home. There are reports that she is going to go to Houston. This is a report -- I have no independent confirmation -- that a distant cousin of Cindy Anthony has decided to take her in. What do you know, Mark? LIPPMAN: One, I wouldn`t discuss it because of security purposes anyway, but I heard from Mr. Mason, and from another media group saying that there`s a variety of different things. He may take her in. I`ve heard she may go to Mexico. I heard she may go to Puerto Rico. But honestly, I wouldn`t discuss where she`s going. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cheney Mason may take her in? LIPPMAN: I heard Cheney or one of his associates may also. VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s going to live with Cheney and his wife? LIPPMAN: For the time being, I could see it happening, until they figure out. I mean, this is -- nobody necessarily expected this. So the - - I don`t know that arrangements were made in preparation for this verdict. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Obviously, in fact the Orange County sheriff`s corrections office said they are not going to release her here at the courthouse behind me. LIPPMAN: No, they wouldn`t do that normally. VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they`re not going to release her in the jail. They are going to put her into the community somewhere and release her. So do we know how that`s going to go down? Normally in Orange County, once somebody is released -- let`s say the judge says time served. They would have to take her back to the jail and process her anyway. And then they -- people walk out. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you. How are Cindy and George doing tonight? LIPPMAN: They`re OK. They`re assimilating all the information. They`re trying to get used to the idea that this case is over and this chapter in their lives is over. And certainly, they need to figure out how they`re going to move on with their lives. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are they going to reconcile with Casey? LIPPMAN: I can`t discuss that, unfortunately. Sorry. VELEZ-MITCHELL: So we don`t know whether George is still mad at Casey? LIPPMAN: No, we don`t know that. Can`t discuss that. VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, they said it was a baseless, baseless defense. LIPPMAN: Right. VELEZ-MITCHELL: But they`re happy that their daughter isn`t going to be put to death. LIPPMAN: Absolutely. They never wanted her to get the death penalty. But certainly, my clients from the get-go, even prior to this trial, said George never had a thing to do with the molestation, never had anything to do with moving the body. VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hear you. LIPPMAN: Neither did lee. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Before we... (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, where`s Caylee? At least where`s her remains? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s heart breaking. A child is gone. And no one`s held accountable. It`s sad. GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: It`s very hard to accept that I don`t have a granddaughter anymore. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is an absolute tragedy. I want to know -- I want to know what happened to Caylee. LAWSON LAMAR, STATE ATTORNEY, ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA: For us, the case has never been about the defendant in particular. It has always been about seeking justice for Caylee and speaking on her behalf. CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: What do you want me to tell Caylee? CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER OF DAUGHTER: That mommy loves her very much. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is disgusting. The baby -- what about her? What would you like to be her and have duct tape on your mouth? JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: There are no winners in this case. Caylee has passed on far, far too soon. CROWD: Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. (END VIDEO CLIP) JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: All right, welcome back. Jane Velez- Mitchell coming to you live from outside the Casey Anthony courthouse in Orlando, Florida. At least it`s not storming today, but boy, some thunderous developments. In 13.5 hours, Casey could be a free woman. Throngs of outraged people are asking how on earth could this happen? How? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CROWD: Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s unbelievable, people are really furious. Now we know that Casey was acquitted. But we`re trying to figure out why she was acquitted. One of the alternate jurors who did not deliberate said he thinks he knows why the prosecution lost. Check it out. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUSSELL HUEKLER, ALTERNATE JUROR IN CASEY ANTHONY TRIAL: What came out was that this is a very dysfunctional family. And they did not handle things well at all. We all believe and I`m pretty sure I can say this for all 17 of us. There was some type of horrific accident. But they didn`t handle it. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meantime, you know, I was out there yesterday and we told you about how they went into the bar, TMZ, got this photo of the defense team celebrating in the bar across the street from the courthouse. I was outside during that. And I know what happened is that somebody snuck in there, took a photo from the ATM machine area and TMZ got a hold of that. This was minutes after defense held a news conference where Jose Baez says the justice system did not dishonor Caylee`s memory with a false conviction, but that he didn`t feel joyous about this, that this was a very sad occasion -- so a little dichotomy there. Can somebody explain how all these shocking developments are happening? I want to hear from you. Give me a call, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Now, tomorrow, sentencing 9:00 a.m.; we`re all over it here on HLN. I want to go to Mark Nejame, he used to represent George and Cindy; he has a lot of connections in this town, one of the top attorneys. And your sources are telling you what could happen. We`ve all heard, ok, Casey could go free, what`s the alternative? MARK NEJAME, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY: The judge decides to go ahead and give a maximum sentence; that would be called a consecutive sentence. Four misdemeanors, maximum one year each count, four years in the county jail. In light of what she`s already served, the release date is probably in April. So if the judge maxed her out it would be April. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Let me just stop you for one second. She was convicted of the four least serious, lying to cops. The maximum on each of those four is one year. So you`ve got a potential four years, but she`s already served some time. She has already served some time because she`s been in jail for almost three years. Now, some of that got covered with the check fraud that she was convicted of. It`s a complicated formula. It`s not so easy to say how long she would be there if the judge decides to give her the max. Jeff Brown, what do you know? JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. It is this easy. Listen, all these counts are running at the same time. In September or I think it was October 28 of 2008, she has no bond on her cases. Those misdemeanors are like glasses of water. If you put a day for every drop, you could only put 365 drops in there. Each of these cases has over 997 days. So the judge can`t do anything. She`s bullet-proof. He has to give her the credit for that and on each of these misdemeanor counts, there`s over 997 days, he could say consecutive all he wants, but she`s already done the time. She`s done the time over a year and a half ago, this is a no brainer. VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying, Jeff? BROWN: He can`t do anything, she is bulletproof tomorrow. She has over 997 days in on each of the four misdemeanor counts, so she`s done this time. He can`t do anything about this. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You`re saying she`s going to walk tomorrow. Now, you see her walking there in handcuffs. BROWN: Have to. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s show that video again of her walking in handcuffs because she`s going to walk tomorrow, according to Jeff Brown. It`s not even a question. BROWN: She has to. She`s done time. VELEZ-MITCHELL: According to Jeff Brown she is going to walk tomorrow and the difference between her walking tomorrow and the way she`s walking there is she`s in handcuffs there and tomorrow she is going to walk out, if Jeff Brown is right, a free woman. Free to do what? So we have to ask, what is next for Casey? Two people who were very close to her have completely opposing predictions. Check this out from NBC. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think Casey will end up going home, I don`t know if George will stay there, but I think Cindy will have Casey home. It`s hard to quit loving your daughter but I think Cindy she wants to get to the bottom of this and she won`t care if it takes ten days or ten years. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way Casey goes back to that household. Cindy and Casey have had an adversarial relationship the entire time Casey has been alive. Right now she has everything she ever wanted. She`s going to have money. She`s going to have people at her doorstep asking for her, wanting her, and she`s going to have that partying lifestyle that she so craved. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney, is she going to Houston, in your opinion? Is that a likely scenario and is she going to get rich and even more famous as some people are predicting. JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know if she`s going to get rich. I`m sure she`ll have many offers to do many different things. I hope that Casey finds peace somewhere and somehow. She`s got to live with the consequences of what`s happened here. She`s got to live with what`s gone on in her family; the dysfunction of her family is her reality. What keeps us going every day for the past several weeks is her life. And so I don`t want to trade or I wouldn`t wish to trade shoes with her for anything. VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I wouldn`t either because she`s facing -- (CROSSTALK) WEINTRAUB: I don`t know if she`s going to Houston. I hope she gets out of Florida. VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- a couple of lawsuits. Zenaida Gonzalez is suing her. And we just heard here on ISSUES from Tim Miller, the founder of Texas Equusearch that there`s a likely lawsuit against Casey Anthony. WEINTRAUB: No. VELEZ-MITCHELL: What? What? WEINTRAUB: No. They`re frivolous lawsuits. Tim Miller, and Jane, Tim Miller knows this, he can`t sue Casey Anthony for that. She never had a contractual agreement with him. She has no legal obligation to him. And whether it`s right or wrong or immoral -- (CROSSTALK) VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Hold on. Judge Larry Seidlin, do you agree -- ok, hold on. Judge Larry Seidlin, do you agree it`s a frivolous lawsuit? JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, PRESIDED OVER ANNA NICOLE SMITH CASE: It`s small potatoes because she`s going to get big offers and have big money -- VELEZ-MITCHELL: I disagree with you 100 percent. And first of all, it`s not small potatoes because they spent more than $100,000 Texas Equusearch did looking for Caylee. They were looking because Casey Anthony said that little Caylee, her daughter, had been abducted by Zanny the nanny. Kidnapped. I want to throw it out to -- WEINTRAUB: She told that to police, Jane. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, so what? (CROSSTALK) WEINTRAUB: She didn`t ask for Tim Miller to come down and search. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, her family didn`t say go home. Ok, Jeff Brown. WEINTRAUB: Jose said you can`t talk to my client. (CROSSTALK) BROWN: They volunteered to come down and help and maybe it`s unfortunate that they got lied to, but they volunteered this service. You can`t sue somebody and say hey, I volunteered my time, but you lied to me. There`s no contract. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, so you`re saying that that one`s a frivolous lawsuit. We`ll see about Zenaida Gonzalez. BROWN: Yes, Jayne`s right. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Brenda, Massachusetts -- very, very patient, Brenda - - what is your question or thought? BRENDA, MASSACHUSETTS (via telephone): I`m sorry. What was that again? VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your question or thought Brenda. BRENDA: My thought on it. I believe that she was guilty. She lied about her daughter being missing for 31 days, claiming that she was with -- whatever -- the nanny. I think she lied about everything. If she didn`t kill her daughter, she knows what happened to her. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to show the horses again outside -- thank you Brenda. We`re going to show the mounted police that are outside of the neighborhood and in and around the neighborhood of the Anthonys. Look at this. I mean this is absolutely extraordinary. Marsha Clark, you went through the O.J. Simpson case. Has this really risen to the level in terms of media attention, outrage and mounted police in the neighborhood of the parents of the defendant? MARCIA CLARK, PROSECUTOR IN O.J. SIMPSON CASE: Not quite. I have to say, it`s big, and certainly there is a big outcry and there`s a lot of people who are feeling outrage. But I have to say, having sat in the middle of this storm last time. I think it was a little more. I know that they were preparing to have helicopters take us out of the building if there was a conviction. So I don`t think it`s risen to quite that level here. But certainly there is concern that you`ve heard about the death threats against the family which is so troubling and upsetting to hear that people would do something as hideous as that. I have to say also, Jane that I agree with you. I`m not so sure that Casey Anthony is going to come into a lot of money here. Remember with the outrage, this outrage is much more unifying. There`s a much more of a general feeling of anger about her. I could see people kind of rendering their vote by refusing to buy anything that she might try to sell. And I think the publishers are going to be rather sensitive to that. And so I`m not so sure if this is a bankable commodity. As far as the lawsuits go, whether they`re frivolous or not, she may very well be completely bullet proof, verdict proof as they say, because it`s like getting milk from a turnip. Where are you going to get the money from? So I`m not sure that this is a bankable person. VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll have to see. We`ll have to see. Thank you so much, Marsha; always great to see you and talk to you. Don`t forget, Dr. Drew is talking with Casey Anthony`s trial prosecutor Jeff Ashton about the shocking not guilty verdict tonight at 9:00 only here on HLN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened to baby Caylee yesterday, I thought, was absolutely disgusting. And she also needs her voice to be heard so I will stand here and protest for her. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: That woman was right behind me here at the courthouse in Orlando, Florida where Casey Anthony is going to be sentenced first thing tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. And I want to go out to Cheryl Arutt, she`s a forensic psychologist; obviously that woman doing something very dramatic, dressing up like the statue of liberty, covering her mouth, covering her eyes, saying basically that justice is not blind; that often minority teenagers who get into trouble for little things get sent away for a long period of time. And then this young lady, who is attractive, does something that the vast majority of people think is absolutely heinous, they think she`s guilty and she`s acquitted. How do you deal with that kind of anger and depression that result from a verdict like this? CHERYL ARRUTT, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I think that people sometimes forget that juries are made up of human beings like themselves and that these people can get swayed by things that are emotional and don`t necessarily have to do with the facts of the case. Things like how likable they find one attorney over another or there can be a moment, for example, I think when the prosecutor was laughing at the very end of the defense closing argument. I think that may have really swayed the jury in a visceral, kind of emotional way. (CROSSTALK) VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cheryl, let me ask you a politically incorrect question, could it be because Casey Anthony is a good-looking young female? Is it harder to convict a good-looking young female of first-degree murder? Or any murder? ARRUTT: You know something? I`m going to answer you. I think it`s harder to convict a good-looking young white female. I think all of those things were working in her favor. My best advice for people who are really outraged by the verdict and feel powerless is the next time you get one of those jury duty notices and you`re thinking about how to get out of it -- you know who you are -- think twice and remind yourself about how very, very important these processes and people`s voices are. So get involved. VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, it`s so amazing that you said that because I was outside the restaurant where the defense team was celebrating and a woman said, "I`m from Pinellas County", which is where they selected this jury. I was given a jury notice and I squeezed out of it, I wiggled out of it. And now I regret it because I could have been on that jury and I could have changed the decision. And there is the celebration. This verdict perhaps the biggest blow obviously to the prosecution; you think you`re depressed, imagine how the prosecution team feels after putting their heart and soul into this case for three long years. The prosecutor Jeff Ashton spoke to NBC today. Check it out. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR: We were feeling pretty good. We felt like we presented a really strong case. You know, we really didn`t think that a not guilty verdict in that short a period of time was realistic. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, now, to hear more from Jeff Ashton, the prosecutor, tune in to Dr. Drew tonight for an in depth, prime time exclusive interview right here on HLN at 9:00 p.m. And then I`m going to talk to Mr. Ashton tomorrow. Boy, do I have a lot of questions. Tomorrow night here on ISSUES I`m going to talk to Jeff Ashton about what he would have done differently, for example. Let me ask you a question Judge Seidlin. Jeff Ashton the prosecutor says he`s going to retire now. He`s only 53 years old. He`s been with the DA`s office for 30 years. Is he acting too soon? Maybe he`s depressed now, but he`ll come out of it. SEIDLIN: He may have his 30 years in the state system and that`s why he`s probably retiring. And I think his boss the state attorney, if you want to speak to the media you`re going to walk out of this office, you`re going to have to hang it up. And is he feeling upset? I would have liked him to wait a little bit longer before he spoke to the media. VELEZ-MITCHELL: What are you saying? You`re saying if he`s going to speak to the media, to hang it up. Say that again. What does that mean? SEIDLIN: If you`re a sitting judge you cannot speak to the media unless you retire. VELEZ-MITCHELL: This isn`t a judge. SEIDLIN: I know. But as a prosecutor he answers to the state attorney. He serves at the pleasure of the state attorney. And his boss man may have said, if you want to speak to the media, you`re going to have to retire, you`re going to have to quit this office. I am not permitting you -- VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is interesting that the top guy, Mark Nejame, the state attorney spoke at the press conference. Not Linda Drane Burdick and not Jeff Ashton. NEJAME: And you never saw Lawson Lamar, the state attorney throughout this entire case. The reality of it is that he is the spokesperson, or they have a PI, or a public information officer. But it`s typically Lawson Lamar speaking on this. And I really think this was done -- this wears you out a lot. I have known Jeff for 30 years. And he`s passionate. And I think he says that, this is the end of it, win or lose, he`s going to do something else. VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re just getting started here, so much controversy, so much to debate. Stick with us, we`ll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HUEKLER: They didn`t really show motive of why Casey would have done what she did, you know. They brought up the party girl aspect, that doesn`t make sense, because they had mom and dad willing at all times to watch, you know, Caylee. (END VIDEO CLIP) VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, that was an alternate juror saying basically the prosecution didn`t have the goods. Now an actual juror said, quote, "I did not say she was innocent. We were sick to our stomach to get that verdict." I find it fascinating that every time there`s one of these shocking acquittals, the jurors all come out and say, "We didn`t want to do it." Why did you do it if you didn`t want to do it? Jenny in Florida, your question or thought, Jenny. JENNY, FLORIDA: I have a question. I heard, there`s a rumor going around that there could be charges brought upon Casey for not reporting her child missing within 31 days because that violated Caylee`s civil rights. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this and I want to put this to Mark Nejame. There are a lot of people, a lawyer walked up to me outside the courthouse today, and said the problem was in the indictment. Instead of charging her with just four accounts of lying to cops, they should have put obstruction of justice. That would have been easier to get. In other words he was saying, too much on the strong charges, not enough on the weak charges. What`s your thought Mark? NEJAME: Yes, I think that`s something that -- look, we have to move forward. She`s been found not guilty. I thought it was first-degree murder, still do. But you`ve got to move forward. You`ve got to learn your lessons. I have seen too many times -- and I`m not saying it did in this case, but they very well could have -- overcharging. What you do is you should take good, clean -- and I hate to use the word -- killshot. You figure out what the true charges are and then you go for them. Over the years, I can`t tell you how many cases we have won when there`s too many charges and the jury gets confused and it becomes baffling to them. And when that occurs, confusion; and as you said when confusion occurs, reasonable doubt enters. And that`s very, greatly what happened here. VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to you, Judge Larry Seidlin, you covered the Anna Nicole Smith case; you`ve done a lot of these big cases. It always seems to me if they don`t get in the high profile case, the defendant, in a criminal, they get them somewhere else. And now we have already heard the IRS has gone after Casey Anthony for $70,000 in unpaid taxes for 2008, which was money according -- that she owes. The government claims -- the government claims she owed this money because she had made this deal with the media. So she must have made somebody some money out of that; the IRS, now a lawsuit from Zenaida Gonzalez and a likely a lawsuit from Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch -- your thoughts. SEIDLIN: I wouldn`t let Jose Baez get too far away from me. I`d keep him managing my life. She`s got to put people around her that can manage her life. Yes, what happens is she`s been a woman in crisis. She`s created the whole family to be in crisis. She`s got to have good people around her now and start to live a good, healthy life. It`s going to be difficult because she`s got a big A on her head like (INAUDIBLE) as in almost an adulterer here. VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you know what? I don`t know that she can just become a different person. In 12-Step, they say, wherever you go, you take yourself with you. And she can pull the geographic, which is what they call it in 12-Step and move to Houston or move to Mars for that matter. She`s still going to be Casey Anthony. (CROSSTALK) SEIDLIN: She has to get out of Dodge. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony still has some major character defects that she`s going to have to look at. Keep it right here. Final thoughts coming right up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s next for Casey Anthony? Predictions starting the attorney Mark Nejame -- quickly. VELEZ-MITCHELL: The more things change, the more things stay the same. The reality of it is, is there`s been no mental health treatment that we know of. There`s been no discussion of it. Why is it sane to think that things are going to change? You have to believe that history repeats itself. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge Seidlin. SEIDLIN: I believe in good karma and God watches out for those that live a righteous life. I hope that she can change her life and be a good human being. And if you`re not, you get punished. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I would just say, I look to O.J. Simpson. He was acquitted and he ended up back in prison because he got in trouble again. And so that is a pattern that Casey Anthony could repeat as well. So it`s really up to her. She had a criminal history before this whole thing for check fraud. Is she going to go back to those habits? We`ll only have to wait and see. Thanks for joining us. Nancy Grace is up next. END Weather forecast

Return to Transcripts main page CNN NEWSROOM Final Shuttle Mission; Phone Hacking Scandal Shuts Paper Down; Murderer Set to Die Tonight in Texas; U.S. Default Deadline Nears; Senator Baucus Marries Former Staffer; Boehner Spokesman Pops the Question; Pawlenty Aide to Bachmann: I'm Sorry; Casey Anthony to Go Free Wednesday Aired July 7, 2011 - 16:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. E.D. HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Now watch this. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After 30 years of triumph and tragedy and American tradition, the very last space shuttle is scheduled to launch from just on the other side of that water, some three miles away from us here at Kennedy Space Center in hopefully a matter of hours. I'm Brooke Baldwin. The countdown is on. HILL: Brooke, the countdown is on in Washington. As fears grow, lawmakers battle over whether to raise the limit on America's credit card. Are they close to a deal? We will soon find out. I'm E.D. Hill. The news starts now. (voice-over): Tonight, a convicted killer is set to be executed in Texas, but President Obama is asking the state to cancel it, before it's too late. New fallout and new allegations against the high-profile newspaper accused of hacking into voice-mails. This time, it involves the family of soldiers who died in war. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought we were in a dark place, and I didn't think anybody could make it darker. HILL: Now a media empire could be at stake. And landslides, mudslides, torrential rain, you will see the video as chaos escalates. (END VIDEOTAPE) HILL: And welcome back. I'm E.D. Hill at CNN headquarters in Atlanta. The final space shuttle launch ever is set for tomorrow morning, less than 20 hours from now. And right now, NASA is evaluating whether a possible lightning strike near the launch pad could cause any problems to the shuttle or any ground equipment there. Now, it's unclear if that lightning strike you just saw in the video is the same one that's causing concern. But there's really a nasty storm there. It's drenched everything and it's hampering their efforts to check for damage. Atlantis' crew of four hopes to live off for the 12-day mission to the International Space Station. That mission will cap NASA's 30-year-old shuttle program. And Brooke Baldwin is at Kennedy Space Center for that launch. As we have said, weather could be a big factor. And Brooke has been braving pretty bad weather to bring us a look at what is next for the program -- Brooke. BALDWIN: Yes, E.D., not just me, but many, many people. There are probably 10 people in front of me here on this platform. We have dozens other here, part of our CNN crew covering this momentous occasion, hopefully tomorrow morning at 11:26 in the morning. But, yes, that lightning was quite a spectacle in the sky. Thus far we're still a go for tomorrow morning and we're still wondering if this launch pad about three miles over my shoulder, launch pad 39-A, if it was at all damaged by that possible lightning strike. We know that there are crews there on that launch pad evaluating that, checking to see anything. We will keep you posted if we learn anything, certainly. But, you know, as we talk about this era, this 30-year era of the space shuttle began April 12, 1981, with STS-1, and here we are some 30 years later with the launch of Atlantis, the final launch, STS-135. And someone who actually his company built the engine that is in this massive piece of machinery, this is Jim Maser. He's president of Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne. That's quite an accomplishment, being in the business of building rocket engines and such, but par for the course down here, working with folks like this. I do want to talk about what is next. And a lot of people are wondering, OK, this is the end of the space shuttle. When will we see astronauts back up there? Do you have the answer to that, sir? JIM MASER, PRESIDENT, PRATT & WHITNEY ROCKETDYNE: No, I do not. I wish I did. We know we have to rely on the Russians to put U.S. astronauts in space after the shuttle quits launching. BALDWIN: With the Soyuz. MASER: With the Soyuz, right, which has launched many, many people into space over the years. But certainly we want to have our own U.S. system. And so NASA has a general plan that they're working towards, but they haven't developed the capability yet. BALDWIN: So Really right now it's a waiting game. We do know that we have heard from NASA Administrator Charlie Bolden in saying, yes, it's not an if, but when we send people back up into space, to deep space, as they call it, to Mars and back to the moon, et cetera. What is it, though, that the community here and across the country, what is it that they're waiting on? What's the timeline? And if we don't get that announcement soon enough, I guess, from the government, what's at stake? MASER: Right. There's a few aspects here. One is, the space shuttle was designed to put up the International Space Station. And so it takes the people up and took the people up to assemble them. So that mission is complete. So now what the theory is and what the model is, now that that's complete, we should be able to take supplies and crew back and forth much more cost-effectively than we do with the shuttle with privately owned systems. So the idea behind that, then, is that will save NASA a lot of money. And they can redirect their funds and their best and brightest to exploring back beyond Earth orbit again around the moon, asteroids and Mars. So they're on the plan to resupply station with domestic cargo and ideally crew, but we don't know what we're doing next to explore beyond. And those two go hand in hand. It's not one or the other. They're linked intimately. BALDWIN: So what's at stake if the timeline is not set out expeditiously? MASER: Well, what's going on is, we were originally on a plan to replace the shuttle with a program called Constellation. That was canceled February 1, 2010. BALDWIN: Right. MASER: So it's been 17 months and we have been going headlong into the shuttle's last launch. We have a lot of critical skills and capability, know how to do human spaceflight, know how to do, we at Pratt Whitney Rocketdyne, liquid rocket engines. We have been part of the human spaceflight program for 50 years, since the beginning. Almost every single U.S. astronaut has flown on our propulsion systems. And we will be faced, if we don't moved on to the next thing soon, of letting them go, losing those critical skills, and seriously jeopardizing our capability. BALDWIN: They're afraid of the A-team down here walking away and losing valuable, valuable people from this industry if we have to wait too long. What about this, though? Being down here the past couple of days, a lot of people say, look, Brooke, there was this whole dry spell, if you will, from, if you know your history, '75, the final Apollo launch, to '81, STS-1. There was a whole span of six years where we weren't sending anyone up and we ended up recovering six years later. How is this different? MASER: This is actually quite a bit different, because what was going on from what I call the Apollo to shuttle transition is industry knew that we could not sustain the budget of Apollo. There was a lot of money being spent that we couldn't keep spending. And so we knew we would have lower budgets. But we knew what we were going to work on next. So the last Apollo mission was '75. The shuttle was turned on in a program in '72. So we were working a three-year overlap. BALDWIN: Before Apollo even ended. MASER: Before Apollo even ended. BALDWIN: Wow. MASER: So we had a gap in launch capability, but we knew what we were working on and we had sized our organizations for it. Here, we knew what the funding is going forward. We know it's going to be flat, but we don't know what we will be working on. And I think that's a more precarious situation. BALDWIN: What about just in terms of the launch? I understand you will be in -- and let me get this right -- the launch control center whenever this thing goes off. MASER: Exactly. BALDWIN: What is that and what will you be doing? MASER: Well, it turns out the prime contractors -- NASA has major contracts with major system owners. We're the space shuttle main engines. There's the solid rocket boosters. There's the orbiter, the external tank. The leads or the top executives from those companies that are here for the launch have to all go in one room. And we have no responsibilities whatsoever near as I can tell, because all our people are doing the hard work. BALDWIN: OK. MASER: However, if something big comes up and we need to be consulted for a decision, the administrator knows where we are. BALDWIN: OK. You will be there if Charlie Bolden needs to pick up the red phone and call you? MASER: Yes, I seriously don't expect that to happen. BALDWIN: Wonderful. Well, we're still hoping for 11:26 tomorrow morning. MASER: Absolutely. BALDWIN: Haven't heard anything differently thus far. Jim Maser, thanks so much. Best of luck to you. MASER: Thank you. Thank you. BALDWIN: And, E.D., that is it thus far from us here. If we hear anything differently in terms of the shuttle launch, dream assignment for me, we will let you know -- back to you. HILL: All right, thanks, Brooke. Again, coming up, she will give us a look behind the scenes at how the coverage will come tomorrow. And a reminder that our special coverage of the shuttle's final mission begins tomorrow morning at 10:00 Eastern right here on CNN. Now, hours from now, a convicted killer is scheduled to be executed in Texas. The Obama administration is asking the state to call it off because the lives of Americans, they say, could be at risk. That's ahead. Plus, celebrities, the royal family, murder victims, even the grieving families of soldiers killed in war all apparently targeted by journalists accused of hacking into their voice-mails. Now a bombshell development -- we will find out why one of the world's most famous newspapers is shutting down and what that means for major media empire. Richard Quest is next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: Now: a scandal worthy of tabloid headlines itself. Journalists working for "News of the World," which is one of Britain's biggest tabloid newspapers, are accused of hacking phone voice-mails of everyone, movie stars, politicians, the royal family. But when it came to light that families of British soldiers killed in action were also hacked, that was the final straw. Today, the scandal brought down the paper itself. In a surprising turn, media mogul Rupert Murdoch, owner of the paper, ordered it shut down. This Sunday is the last edition. Mr. Murdoch owns News Corp., which includes "The Wall Street Journal," "The New York Post," FOX News and business channels and 20th Century Fox movie studio. Richard Quest joins us now. Richard, what happened? (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think, in the last 24 hours, it became clear we had gone from celebrity phone hacking to murdered victim hacking, to bomb victim hacking, to soldiers and dead soldiers hacking. We have now got two investigations, public inquiries, that will be launched, one into the hacking and two into the payments that News Corp. or that the "News of the World" made to the police. So, faced with this octopus of allegations and a cancer that was just eating away at the group, they took the decision just to cut it off. Now, one other thing. Murdoch is trying to BSkyB, a major British satellite broadcaster. That deal is now teetering, teetering on the edge, and the cynics say here it's to save that that he's lopped off the newspaper. HILL: And to explain that a bit more, because I guess I'm a little skeptical of anything in Washington and anything to do with business, so when I looked at this, I thought, yes, he's trying to buy BSkyB. That is huge, big business deal for him. The problem had been that people said he owns and controls too much media already. By shutting this down, he makes it look better, doesn't he? QUEST: No, no. Well, sort of. Look, he owns about nearly 30 percent of BSkyB. He was buying the bit he didn't own. And the real issue is, was there going to be too much plurality? Was there going to be enough competition? Forget all those issues now. They were about to be answered. This is going to hinge on whether News Corp., News International, News Corp., Murdoch, is a fit and proper person to run another major operation in the media. That's what this is all about. Now, by -- by getting rid of "News of the World," they look and they appear to have been very forceful, very decisive. They have got rid of something. I mean, to be fair to Murdoch, Jim Murdoch Jr., James, he says -- he's described the allegations as inhuman, no place in their company, sullied the good name of the company. He says wrongdoers turned a good newsroom bad. So, in an interview tonight, he also says, you know, he and his father pledge to sort this mess out. I mean, the problem is -- and you don't want to necessarily have schadenfreude at this misfortune of one's competitors, but the problem is just take in the United States. Murdoch became a U.S. citizen, so that he could buy assets in the U.S. He gave up his Australian citizenship in doing so. He has relentlessly cherry-picked top assets in major places. Nothing wrong with that at all, absolutely not. That's the free market, but this one has blown up in his face in the U.K. (END VIDEOTAPE) HILL: All right. Thank you very much, Richard. Now, just about two and a half hours and counting, that is how much a man, a Mexican national, an accused murderer may have to live. That's the man. That's unless Texas Governor Rick Perry delays his execution. President Obama wants it stopped, so does Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. CNN's Jill Dougherty is digging in on this story. She'll update us on what is happening right now. That's coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: A convicted murderer scheduled to be executed in Texas within hours is at the center of an international, legal and diplomatic dispute. The man is Mexican and while few deny he's guilty, when he was arrested and during his trial he was never told he had the right to contact the Mexican consulate, which could have provided more legal aid, and that right is guaranteed under a binding international treaty. Texas Governor Rick Perry is refusing to stop the execution set for tonight at 6:00 Central. The president, meanwhile, and the secretary of state say he must, cause if not they fear Americans may suffer. Jill Dougherty is following this story. So can you explain the concerns for folks? JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: We've been talking about this over at the State Department, and they would say and the administration would say that the United States signed this treaty, this international treaty, and so even though this man is obviously guilty, he did have a right to talk to representatives from his embassy to get advice and counsel. And if the United States does not honor that and the state of Texas doesn't honor it, then if an American citizen were traveling abroad, committed a crime, ended up getting arrested, that they would not -- that potentially that government could say, well, you did not recognize the rights of our citizens, therefore we won't recognize the rights of your citizens. It's really -- that's the simplest argument. HILL: Now, if this is an international treaty was signed, how does the president not just have the right to say, I'm sorry, I'm stepping in and you're going to delay it? DOUGHERTY: Well, that's an excellent question, and that is what the Supreme Court might be deciding, because there's a separate track here. The lawyers for this man, Mr. Leal, have got to the Supreme Court and they have said we want a stay of execution and we also want you to look at this broader issue. It's really a states' rights issue. Does the president have a right to tell a state that they have to enforce an international treaty, that that president has signed on to? And that's a question that was decided a while ago in another case, but now there are different circumstances. The Congress might pass a law that would make it more possible to deal with cases like this, put them in the federal courts. So there's a lot of legal maneuvering right now as the time ticks away. HILL: I certainly understand the states' rights issue with this, but you said they already had one state's rights case, but it was slightly different. What did they determine in that one? Was it the international law that ruled or the state law? DOUGHERTY: The state law. That the president of the United States could not tell a state what to do. But there's a hitch. If the Congress were to come up with a law, and in this case there is a pending bill from Senator Leahy which says that federal courts would be able to hear these appeals, then you would have a track where the federal courts could deal with this and there would be appeals, and that would actually change the equation. So we'll have to see how that happens. Ultimately, that might be resolved even after Mr. Leal could be executed. We'll have to see. HILL: Jill Dougherty, thank you very much. There are major developments in the sexual assault case against Dominique Strauss-Kahn. His lawyers are making a strongly worded demand. We'll tell you what that is, next. Plus, take a look at this video. It seems normal, right? Well, police say that a guy stole that Picasso painting. And now after a manhunt, there's a break in the case. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: If it's interesting and happening right now, you're about to see it in "Rapid Fire." Let's go. In Georgia, a special board of education meeting is taking place to deal with a system-wide cheating scandal that rocked the public school system. A state investigation found as many as 178 teachers and principals at 44 schools were involved; criminal charges are possible. Atlanta's interim superintendent recommended now yearly mandatory ethics training for every school system employee and any students, he says, who have been harmed should get remedial training. In New York, French financier Dominique Strauss-Kahn says he will not accept any plea bargain in the sex assault case against him, the statement made a day after his attorneys met with prosecutors for nearly two hours. No one saying if a plea deal was offered. Kahn is the former head of the International Monetary Fund who is accused of sexually assaulting a New York hotel maid. The prosecution acknowledges there are credibility issues with the accuser. Now to the Netherlands, at least one person is dead, 14 injured after part of that stadium roof collapsed. Take a look at the pictures. That stadium is home to a Dutch soccer team. Crews were expanding the seating capacity when a roof section gave way early this morning. The injured are believed to be construction workers. And there is unbelievable flooding in China, a week of heavy rain causing havoc across southwestern China. You can see the downpours are causing massive mudslides. Many houses, bridges, roads destroyed. State media reports at least eight people are dead, and more than 170,000 people have fled their homes. There are big storms also rolling across Colorado, yesterday dumping hail up to one and a quarter inches in diameter in some places. Torrential rain also caused minor flooding there. Conditions in Colorado are unusually moist due to a cold front which also spun a pretty disorganized funnel cloud. And take a look at this. You see that man? He's carrying what appears to be, well, an ordinary picture frame. That is a Picasso worth $200,000. The drawing, called "Tete de Femme," was recovered after being stolen from a local art gallery. Police have arrested a 30-year-old man in connection with that theft; bail is set at $5 million. Coming up, find out why some bank executives may have to give back their salaries, big-time cash. Also, the buzz is rising as the royal couple gets ready to arrive right here in America. First out, some of the things they'll be doing. And the final shuttle launch could be in jeopardy. We'll take you live to Florida. "Reporter Roulette" is next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: The government will be able to take back money from executives, wait until you hear how. The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge will dethrone celebrities when they hit L.A., and it's a wet outlook for the launch of the final shuttle. Time to play "Reporter Roulette." Let's start with Alison Kosik at the New York Stock Exchange. So, explain this executive pay claw-back. ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK, so this new rule, E.D., comes out of the Dodd-Frank legislation, and what it does is it lets the FDIC to collect two years in back pay from executives that it sees as what they call substantial responsible if the company should fail. Now lawmakers, they've been trying to rein in executive pay after they blamed it -- blamed this incentive-based compensation on inspiring more risk taking at these huge banks like Lehman Brothers. Banks that, of course, were called too big to fail -- E.D. HILL: Now, also, I saw something today that says that heard could be help for unemployed homeowners. What's that about? KOSIK: Yes. So, these are for people who are out of work. The government is going to give you a break, a little breathing room, until you find a job. So, you would be eligible -- you could be eligible if you have an FHA or an MHA loan, those are those modification loans that the Federal Housing Administration had offered after the recession, to try and keep people in their homes. Those loans gave mortgage relief for four months. Well, what's changing now, what was announced, is that -- it's going to be extended, actually, to 12 months. So, this is known as forbearance and it's exactly is, it's an agreement that the lender and the borrower, you and the bank, come to. And the goal here is to avoid foreclosure. Now, whatever that agreement is, it's really going to vary, depending on your individual financial situation. Now, in extreme cases, you may not have to make a mortgage payment at all during that 12 months. But at the end of that 12 months, E.D., you have to go back under review and come back to a different agreement -- E.D. HILL: And that's because the administration feels that solidifying the housing market is just essential, otherwise each month they get a flood of new homes that are being put on the market. KOSIK: Exactly. I mean, what you're seeing is, the housing market is just not recovering, so the government is stepping in, try trying to help people in their homes because when you have more foreclosed homes on the market, you not only have people who are not in homes, you've got housing prices being depressed, because you got more open properties on the market. HILL: Yes, and we're certainly seeing that. Alison Kosik, thank you very much. Next on "Reporter Roulette," the duke and duchess of Cambridge are wrapping up their last leg of the Canadian trip before heading to the U.S. tomorrow. Max Foster is in Calgary. MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A very colorful finale to this Canadian tour. When they arrive here in Calgary, they're going to be presented with white hats. Later on, you'll see them dressed up in jeans and cowboy boots, and they're going to see a few demonstrations of the stampede, as it's known here, a big annual event. You're going to see them watching lassoing, some bull riding and they'll come a barrel into the back of a wagon to start a race. So, a big colorful event. Tomorrow, they will launch the stampede parade. So, that's going to be a great picture event. So, then after that, they head to California and Los Angeles, a very, very busy, long weekend for the royal couple there. You're going to see Prince William playing polo, and the duchess presenting the winner with a trophy. She'll be hoping it's her husband. And on Saturday night, there'd be a big red carpet event. We're told there'd be full frocks and rocks for the duchess. So that's going to be a real highlight of this tour -- E.D. HILL: Frocks and rocks. Now, I'm assuming even though he plays polo, he's not going to be doing any bull riding up in Calgary. So, we'll be watching to see what they happens when they hit L.A. Now, up next on "Reporter Roulette," NASA engineers are evaluating whether a lightning strike near at shuttle's launch pad is cause for concern there. Chad Myers is at Kennedy Space Center on what has been a very rainy pre-launch day -- Chad. CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It has been raining, lightning, thunder all day. It has been even a very loud day at times. We would see the lightning strikes in the distance. Count to five, if you get to five, that's one mile away. You count to 10, that's two miles away. And a number of them, right on the cape, were right very, very close to where that shuttle is sitting there on the launch pad. At about 12:40 and 30 seconds, the lightning was striking. They think it was within one third of a mile of the launch pad itself. Now, why does that matter? It didn't hit the shuttle. Yes, but there are fine, fine electronics all around this pad. Plus, lightning can go in other places than just where it hits, you know? Lightning can travel along the ground or along a wire. And so, they have to check this out, to see whether anything was damaged. And they can't go out there to check it, because it's still thundering. You don't want to send any crews out there. Now, if you're here at the village. This is the visitor center. You can still have fun, many things are still inside or you could scurry from one place to another. From -- I would say 95 percent of the day, it is either dribbled, it has drizzled. It's just been one miserable day. So, I guess we're glad and very happy today was not a launch day. There'd be a zero percent chance of launching in this weather. And, you know, still about a 30 percent chance that the weather is good enough for others. That's a great view right there. What you're looking at there, that's the mockup of the shuttle that you can come into, walk in, walk around, see where the astronauts sit, see where the shuttle bay is looked like, the doors look like. And it's a great little exhibit there. People stand in line for half an hour to get in that thing. And probably tomorrow with the lines, they may be more like two hours waiting in line. But getting back to my train of thought, there's one chance that we launch this tomorrow. That launch is, E.D., if it rains all night long, and then by morning, the rain stops, but there's a fog bank around. That fog will stop the sun from heating the ground. The fog burns away, and then we have a window literally of sunshine, and the sunshine is what we want to get this shuttle off. There are so many bad things that can happen tomorrow with one cumulus cloud, with one cirrus cloud, you can't fly through ice crystals. And I just don't think that tomorrow is going to be the day. But we have Saturday and Sunday before they actually lose the priority on the launch pad. And we're not going anywhere before this thing goes. I think eventually with all these people, they have to launch this thing. I just talked to somebody from Auckland, New Zealand. They spent -- I'm not kidding you -- they spent $6,000 U.S. to get here and to watch the shuttle launch for the last time. This is all they're going to do. They didn't come to Disney World. They didn't go to Sea World. They came to Cape Canaveral to watch the launch, and they spent $6,000 to do it. HILL: And you're there for a lot less and still the fun. Chad Myers, thank you very much. MYERS: OK. HILL: And that is today's "Reporter Roulette." Now, our Brooke Baldwin is part of that CNN crew at place at the Kennedy Space Center for tomorrow's final shuttle launch. So, what does it take to pull off that huge event? She'll take you behind the scenes. Take a look. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: So, this is the shot you're used to seeing over our shoulders, right? You have the countdown clock here, which, by the way, is much bigger in person than on television. And then just over the water, about three miles away from us here at Kennedy Space Center, you can kind of see Atlantis off in the distance. But this is part of the story you don't normally get to see. Take a look at the presence of the media. First of all, you have all these different satellite trucks. We rely on satellites in space to be broadcasting to you here on CNN. And also, that is our platform. This is where our special will be head, myself, Anderson, John Zarrella, Cady Coleman. We'll all be sitting up there, and Eric Marrapodi, my intrepid producer -- walk in, because this is quite an event. And let or viewers and I'm a little freeze here, some CNN terminology, SPEV. ERIC MARRAPODI, CNN PRODUCER: SPEV is special events. They're the Black Ops. They're our SEAL Team 6. When we need it done now, they're the ones who get it. They get you things like air conditioning outside on a platform. BALDWIN: Air conditioning, because it's hot here. We're in Florida. MARRAPODI: It's super hot. It's like Washington, D.C., but with gators here. BALDWIN: There are gators under our trailers. Speaking of the trailers, let's show them inside a SPEV trailer. OK, let's go. OK. And ta-da, this is one of two SPEV trailer. This is Leslie. She's one of we'll call her one of the queens of SPEV right now. She's on the phone trying to set something up, busy, busy, busy. But take a look around here, because this is where -- this is sort of the heart of our operation. We have all these different shots that you will ultimately be seeing on television. And behind you is Richie Phillips. How long have you been with CNN? RICHIE PHILLIPS: Twenty-fifth year now. BALDWIN: This is the 25th year? PHILLIPS: Quite happy. BALDWIN: Quite happy. You have rearranged many a vacation because of launches. PHILLIPS: Right. BALDWIN: I mean, we talk so much about how this is bittersweet for the astronauts, but is it at all sad for you? PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. We have a sense of adventure ourselves, too. You know, we like this stuff. This is a big deal, we like to be able to tell the story and tell it well. So, yes, we're feeling it ourselves, too. BALDWIN: OK. I think we should show them the set. So, Marrapodi took a call. I take you to the set. Let's go. And this is the final shot. This is the area you don't get to see because normally, I'm on the other side of the camera. But these are all the cameras up on this live platform. And this is where you see me, and you'll see the rest of us sitting for potential the next couple days. See you on TV. (END VIDEOTAPE) HILL: Thank you, Brooke. And now, watch this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. RON JOHNSON (R), WISCONSIN: Is that really how the financial fate of America is going to be decided? I mean, personally I find that process disgusting. (END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: That is Senator Ron Johnson, blasting what he calls the secret talks President Obama and congressional leaders are having behind closed doors. And I got to speak with Senator Johnson last hour. Up next, I'll speak with the Democrat who is pretty angry with President Obama and making demands. Congressman Paul Grijalva is standing by. He joins us next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: Let me update you again on the reduction talks and the potential of default by the United States Treasury. High-level talks at the White House today, President Obama and congressional leaders from both parties met. Afterwards, the president said the meeting was constructive and they'll meet again Sunday. As we told you, Mr. Obama has reportedly agreed to put on the table possible cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security to get a sweeping deal on debt reduction with Republicans. And some Democrats say that is too much. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. RAUL GRIJALVA (D), ARIZONA: Cuts in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid need to and should be taken off the table. And second, that revenue increases must a meaningful part of any agreement. (END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: Joining us now from Washington is that man, member of Congress we heard from there, Raul Grijalva, Democrat of Arizona. Congressman, thank you for being with us. GRIJALVA: Thank you for the invite, E.D. I appreciate it. HILL: What do you think about this -- the meeting behind closed doors with the leadership, is that the right way to go about this? GRIJALVA: Well, I think there's so much at mistake and so much posturing and political posturing that is going around raising the debt ceiling that more transparency is necessary, to all of a sudden be discussing Social Security for potential cuts, Medicare, Medicaid and where we have heard nothing about what revenue generation is going to happen as part of this deal I think concerns many of us. And that's why enough of us are signing on to a letter to the president that if those items, Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, are part of the benefit cuts to the American people, we're not supporting any deal. HILL: You know, I agree with you in the part that the president and congressional leaders have all been talking a lot, but they don't give many specifics, you know? We have -- we know the problems we know we need to fix. But how exactly are you going to do that? So, when the president says, we'll put this on the table, and Republicans say, we'll put that on the table. Exactly how much will they give? And I understand that you really -- you want to have personal time with the president. That more of the progressive Democrats want to get together and talk to him and tell him what you think. Do you think that's going to happen? GRIJALVA: Oh, I hope so. We made that request. We have yet to meet with the president or his economic advisers relative to what our contributions are to these discussions? We understand - HILL: Well, what would you tell him? I know that you'd say, leave alone Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, you believe in revenue increases. Where do you think this is coming (ph)? GRIJALVA: We also believe there's reductions, but they can't be done in areas that are important. We have -- we've talked about the subsidies to big oil and big gas, the billions upon billions that could bring back to the treasury, that could be used to reductions. We've talked about rolling back those tax cuts. We've talked about issues allowing Medicare to bulk -- purchase pharmaceuticals in bulk, that would save billions of dollars for program, and instead of weakening of it, you would strengthen it. We've talked about a transition fee for large movement of financials in the stock market. We've put on the table including getting us out of these two wars that are costing us billions and billions of dollars every month with no end in sight. So we feel that there are specifics that need to be talked about, but the items I just outlined for you those are sacrificed. The Republicans don't want to talk about it. So therefore we don't talk about it. So the only thing we hear coming out of these private discussions is Social Security's on the block, Medicare is on the block and Medicaid is on the block. Many of us felt that it's time to push back to both the leadership, the Republican and to some extent the administration. And say, we cannot support a deal like that. It's skewed. It's out of balance. HILL: I have heard little rumblings that Republican leaders may agree to talk about the oil subsidies and some other things, but still there's such a huge gap between, you know, what people on one side or the other one. It seems it's almost insurmountable. Do you have much hope that by Sunday they'll come up with any more specifics? As the president said it's constructive or productive. Boehner said constructive, but no details. Do you think they'll get any? GRIJALVA: I'm not overly optimistic that something is going to magically, a magic bullet would appear on Sunday that's going to get us out of this default crisis that the Republicans have created. I think what the American people want to know is what specific items are we talking about. You know, things come forward, and they go away, and so I think by us saying we don't want Social Security on the table. We don't want Medicaid or Medicare. We are actually responding to what 60 percent of the American people in the latest poll have said -- leave those off the table. I think this is more than enough that we can look at to generate revenue and to make reductions in our budget, including the military that isn't even talked about. HILL: All right, Congressman Raul Grijalva, thank you very much for your time today. GRIJALVA: Thank you for the invite. I appreciate it. HILL: Well, it may be the summer of shouting in Washington, but love is in the air as well. A senator gets married and an aide to House Speaker John Boehner just proposed at a very interesting place. I've got the pictures. Plus one of Tim Pawlenty's aides is apologizing for a comment he made about Michele Bachmann. It involves sex appeal. Joe Johns has the scoop. "Political Pop" is next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: A summer romance is in the air in Washington these days. Joe Johns is here with "Political Pop." So what's going on? JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: E.D., possibly one of the biggest big-deal weddings to date this summer happened over the July 4th weekend. Vice president of the United States went all the way out to Montana for this one. It was the chairman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee Max Baucus of Montana tying the knot with former aide Melanie Haynes. She is known around Washington to former child abuse prosecutor. Not only did she once work for the senator as a state director, she's also a deputy administrator of the Justice Department. And yes, there has been a little bit of controversy about this relationship, because a couple years back Haynes was one of the several people Senator Baucus recommended for a United States attorney's job. She didn't get it and now she's over the Justice Department working anyway so another story. A big-deal wedding I think it's safe to call that. HILL: What are the pictures of this unique proposal? JOHNS: Right, right. This is Michael Steele, no not the former Republican National Committee chairman, another one. The spokesman for Speaker Boehner and one of the most -- isn't that nice? HILL: Yes, that's so sweet. JOHNS: Who knew he's got a romantic side. He proposed to his wife to be Mary Catherine Covert on what is known as the Speaker's Balcony. This is a spot on the second floor of the Capitol looking directly down the National Mall with an unobstructed view of the Fourth of July fireworks, pretty good idea, actually. I talked to him today. He said they've been dating for a couple years and thought thinking about proposing right away Memorial Day. So here we are Washington is for lovers. HILL: Fantastic. That is cute. Now also, I heard there was a Pawlenty aide who had to eat a little crow over some comments about Michele Bachmann. JOHNS: Well, you know, there has been so much focus on the little gaffs that Bachmann has made, factual errors, and whatnot, a lot of politicians do this, but once again, we've seen another example of someone saying something about Michele Bachmann and having to clean it up later. This time it's former Congressman Vin Weber, a top adviser to Tim Pawlenty's presidential campaign, apologized for making a reference to Michele Bachmann's sex appeal during an interview with "The Hill" newspaper. What Weber said was that Bachmann has hometown appeal, she's got ideological appeal, and quote, "I hate to say it, but she's got a little sex appeal, too." And of course sex appeal is the dangerous part, because it raises questions about whether a man running for president would get tagged with that same kind of label. Weber said he made a mistake, called himself a Bachmann supporter in her congressional bids, and essentially apologized. He said he wasn't speaking on behalf of Governor Pawlenty's campaign. HILL: I would assume not. JOHNS: Right, yes, he's a former co-chair of Pawlenty's PAC, so you know, there you go. HILL: Joe Johns, thank you. JOHNS: You bet. HILL: Now, watch this -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her release date has been calculated as July 13th, 2011. (END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: Check your calendar again, that's right, Casey Anthony will walk free in just six days. Not everyone thinks she deserves it. Up next, we hear from a prosecutor, a juror and the judge. Sunny Hostin is on that case. She's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HILL: Casey Anthony will walk out of a Florida jail in six days a free woman. Sunny Hostin is on the case. Now, the judge sentenced her to four years in jail for lying to authorities, so how does four years shrink to six days? SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: It does sound kind of weird, doesn't it? But she did get four years in prison, but she's been there for a long time, E.D. She's been in prison for almost three years. She gets credit for good time served. She gets 1,043 days' credit. So when you do the calculations, and you put in state guidelines and good behavior, she'll get about six days in prison. But she has been in prison for quite some time already. HILL: It seemed like though the judge was trying to really make his own statement with that. I'm sure he knew it would end up being six days, but he was making a statement of his own there, wasn't he? HOSTIN: I think that's right. These are misdemeanors that she was convicted and typically people don't spend four years in prison, even if they're convicted of four misdemeanors. The penalty is up to one year in prison, up to $1,000 in fines. She got the max that he could give her, up to four years and $4,000. So absolutely he did as much as he could with this sentence. HILL: So next Wednesday she gets out, but let's look at what's going on outside the courtroom. Look at this. They're not happy at all. A lot of talks that Casey maybe in danger. Let's listen to what Casey's attorney, Jose Baez told ABC's Barbara Walters. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried about her safety? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am. I am. And I'm afraid for her, and I don't think it's fair. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you see Casey's future? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Casey can -- could have been anything she wanted in this world, and I think there are still plenty of things that Casey can do in life, and I think Casey can be a productive member of society. (END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: So Sunny, what's your take on that? Is he right on that one? HOSTIN: You know, I'm not so sure. I mean, certainly she's what the most hated woman in America right now, the most infamous woman in America. I think the prime example of what could happen to her is what happened to O.J. Simpson. Remember when he got out, E.D., I mean, people wouldn't even serve him in restaurants. So there will be a lot of informal sanctions waged against Casey Anthony, and I'm not sure they'll be able to do whatever she wants to do with her life. There will be a lot of people ostracizing her when she does get out next week. HILL: You had a chance to interview the prosecutor Jeff Ashton on AMERICAN MORNING. Let's listen to what he had to say about his relationship with Baez. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HOSTIN: What about the relationship between you and Jose Baez? I mean, I've been in the courtroom. Did you like each other? Did you like him? JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR: I don't -- I don't think we'll be vacationing together anytime in the near future. (END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: So a contentious relationship, right? HOSTIN: That's right. I mean, he was very honest. He said there were a lot of things that happened in the precursors to this trial. Remember this is three years in the making and while lawyers are sometimes friends, more often than not they're adversaries. These two lawyers were like gladiators in the courtroom. Anybody that watch them will attest to that and so certainly this was a very contentious relationship that may have gotten a bit personal. HILL: And real quick, as a mom I was kind of scared by this. There's some word she might want to have another child, Casey? HOSTIN: Isn't that incredible, E.D.? I mean, I'm a mom too, and I think most mothers sort of cringed when we heard this, apparently when she was in prison, she did write a letter to another inmate, and she talked about her dream of being pregnant again. She also talked about the possibility of adopting another child. So certainly I think it's a bit bone-chilling given the fact that many people believe that she was complicit in this. Something criminal happened and many of the jurors have said they thought that she did this, but they just couldn't get there because there was reasonable doubt. HILL: All right, Sunny Hostin, thank you very much. And thank you for joining us today. Now we go to "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Candy Crowley. Weather forecast

5 Year Pilot EMS Recertification Program - 5 Year Pilot EMS Recertification Program (PDF, 261KB, 33pg.) Table of Contents - What is the 5-year Pilot Recertification Program? - How does an Agency apply? - Who can participate? - What does a participant have to do to renew their certification? - What are the different continuing education requirements for each provider level? - What type of continuing education is accepted? - How will the 5-year Pilot Recertification Program be Evaluated? - Is there funding available for the pilot program? - Information for Course Sponsors - How Much Time Do I Have To Complete The Requirements? - Other Frequently Asked Questions - Who should I contact if I have any other questions What is the 5-year Pilot Recertification Program? The 5-year Pilot Recertification Program allows an EMT, EMT-Intermediate, EMT-Critical Care or EMT-Paramedic, who is in continuous practice, demonstrates competency and completes appropriate continuing education, to renew their certification for 5 years without taking a certification exam. In December 2001 Governor Pataki signed Chapter 563 of the Laws of 2001. This law calls for the Commissioner of Health to develop a pilot program in the counties of Delaware, Fulton, Hamilton, Montgomery, Otsego, Schoharie, Nassau, and Suffolk. It allows an EMT/AEMT, with a participating agency, who is in "continuous practice," and has "demonstrated competence in applicable behavioral and performance objectives," and has "demonstrated completion of appropriate continuing education, to renew their certification for five years." Participants must complete "at least 130 hours of Emergency Medical Services training including but not limited to pediatrics, geriatrics, environmental emergencies, legal issues, emergency vehicle operation, and medical emergencies". This program is NOT AN EXTENSION OF THE THREE-YEAR Pilot Program. It is a separate program with different requirements. The law prohibits the participation of any employee of a municipal ambulance service in cities with a population over one million. The law has a "sunset clause" and will be repealed July 1st 2008. As of June 30, 2008 the Department of Health will not accept any further applications to participate in the pilot program. Participants already registered in the program will be allowed to complete the requirements and renew their current certification. The Law also allows the Commissioner of Health to limit the participation to 1000 providers. Individual applications will only be received as part of a package with the agency registration form at the beginning of the program. If the 1000 registrant threshold is not reached an agency may submit additional individual registrations until the program is full (1000 registrants). The Department of Health will register the first 1000 participants whose applications are received by mail. These applications must accompany the agency registration for their participating EMS agency. The Department is not responsible for lost or missing documents mailed to the Department. How does an Agency apply? Agencies interested in participating in the 5-year Pilot Recertification Program need to file an "Agency Participation Form" (EMS-5A) and include the "Participant Registration Form" (EMS-5P) for each individual in their agency eligible to participate. The Agency must make a commitment to support the program. It must agree to assist its members to achieve success by providing or directing them to opportunities for in-service training, drills, audiovisuals, magazines, books, journal clubs, and/or other continuing education activities. The Agency must agree to maintain records of the continuing education activities of its members. Agencies may wish to work together and consolidate their efforts to provide a quality continuing education program. They may wish to affiliate with a local college, course sponsor or their county EMS coordinator's office. These efforts are encouraged. If this option is chosen, a written agreement between the agencies must be filed with the Bureau of EMS outlining specific details on who will be responsible for each piece of the program and where the records will be kept. Each agency must maintain its own "agency" file with a listing of the agency's participants and their progress in the program. Individual participant files may be kept at a central location when multiple agencies collaborate. The Agency's Medical Director must agree to support the pilot program. The Medical Director should assist with in-service training and other continuing education activities. For ALL providers, the Medical Director or his/her designee must verify that they have maintained appropriate skill proficiency. Who can participate? EMTs, EMT-Intermediates, EMT-Critical Care Technicians and EMT-Paramedics may participate in the Pilot Program if they are currently certified, actively providing prehospital care and members of a participating agency. Participation is limited to those providing care with participating agencies in Delaware, Fulton, Hamilton, Montgomery, Nassau, Otsego, Schoharie and Suffolk counties ONLY. Each participant must complete a "Participant Registration Form" (EMS-5P) which will be submitted with the agency registration as a package. Participation is voluntary. An EMS Agency may not require a member/employee to participate in the pilot program. Any participant that chooses to withdraw from the program will expire on the date listed on their most recently issued EMT card. The participant must then recertify through a traditional recertification course. Participants must be "in continuous practice." To participate in the 5-year pilot program the EMT/AEMT must be currently certified and actively providing prehospital care with the certified agency registered in the program. "Continuous Practice" is defined by the participant's agency and must include patient contact time. Each applicant is responsible to submit, to the New York State Department of Health Bureau of Emergency Medical Services, a completed 5-year Pilot Recertification Form for the certification level they wish to recertify, postmarked no less than 45 days prior to the actual date their certification expires. Failure to submit the recertification form will result in removal from the program and will require recertification through a traditional recertification course. Participants cannot allow their certification to expire during the program. Expired certifications are not eligible for renewal in this program. It is the responsibility of the individual seeking recertification to ensure that their recertification application is submitted to the Department of Health (DOH) as outlined in the paragraph above. Submission to the participant's agency representative does not constitute submission to the DOH. What does a participant have to do to renew their certification? To renew certification, an EMT/AEMT must complete no less than 130 hours of continuing education. This meets the criteria of the legislation stating "at least 130 hours of appropriate continuing education" that includes: Refresher Training (review of core content) Refresher Training is a review of the core content of the initial training program (NYS curriculum objectives and content). While it is ideal for the purpose of remediation, it is not intended to expand on knowledge or skills beyond entry-level training. For each level of provider there are specific minimum requirements for refresher training. All "Refresher Training" (Core Content) activity must be completed through a New York State Certified EMS Course Sponsor and conducted by a Certified Instructor Coordinator. Mandatory CME Topic Hours Mandatory Topic hours are topic areas with a required number of hours in addition to the core content material. These hours will be obtained through course sponsorships, conference sessions, or CME classroom lecture settings. CPR Certification CPR certification must be at the professional provider level and must be current. It must be equivalent to the American Heart Association's Basic Life Support for Healthcare Providers or the American Red Cross: CPR for the Professional Rescuer. It must include: - Adult 1 & 2 Rescuer CPR - Adult Obstructed Airway - Child 1 & 2 Rescuer CPR - Child Obstructed Airway - Infant CPR - Infant Obstructed Airway - Automatic External Defibrillation (AED) ACLS Certification for EMT-Paramedics EMT-Paramedics must maintain current Advanced Cardiac Life Support certification and provide verification of maintenance. Additional EMS related continuing education Additional continuing education in varying EMS related topics provides the opportunity to keep up with the ever-changing field of emergency medicine and prehospital care. Attending lectures, EMS conferences, nationally recognized continuing education courses, approved self-study, journal clubs, structured call audits/case reviews, "grand rounds," and other directed studies allows the participant to keep up with these rapid changes. Verification of skill proficiency Verification of proficiency in skills must be achieved by direct observation of the Medical Director or their designee (e.g. CIC, CLI) utilizing DOH practical exam sheets. Skill Verification may be done through a currently certified New York State EMS course sponsorship if the agency medical director agrees. Documentation of this agreement must be kept on file at the agency. Skill verification is not a pass / fail test. Any weaknesses identified must be remediated and re-demonstrated. Documentation must be kept in the individual's training file. Hours completed demonstrating/reviewing skills may be used in the "additional hours" category and may be up to one hour per skill. This does not limit the amount of time to spend on skills if needed but you may only use up to one hour for credit. What are the different continuing education requirements for each provider level? The EMT, EMT-I, EMT-CC and EMT-Paramedic each have specific requirements for completing the 130 hours of continuing education. The following illustrates the requirements for the five years to achieve the 130 hour total. EMT-Basic 28 hours of Refresher Training (review of core content) - Preparatory (2) - Airway (3) - Patient Assessment (4) - Medical/Behavioral (6) - Trauma (6) - OB, Infants and Children (4) - Geriatrics (2) - Operations (1) 20 Mandatory Topic Hours - Emergency Vehicle Operation (4) - Hazardous Materials (3) - Domestic Preparedness (4) - Pediatrics (3) - Geriatrics (3) - State BLS Protocol Review (3) 82 hours of additional continuing education EMT-Intermediate 36 hours of Refresher Training (review of core content) - Preparatory (2) - Roles/Responsibilities (2) - Medical/Legal/Terminology (2) - Airway (Basic and Advanced) (5) - Patient Assessment (5) - Medical/Behavioral (4) - Trauma (4) - OB, Infants and Children (4) - Geriatrics (2) - Operations/EMS System /Communications (3) - Shock Management/I.V. Therapy (3) EMT-Intermediate (Continued) 20 Mandatory Topic Hours - Emergency Vehicle Operation (4) - Hazardous Materials (3) - Domestic Preparedness (4) - Pediatrics (3) - Geriatrics (3) - State BLS Protocol Review/Regional Protocol Review (3) 74 hours of additional continuing education EMT-Critical Care Technician 36 hours of Refresher Training (review of core content) - Preparatory (5) - Foundation of the EMT-Critical Care Technician - Overview of Human System - Emergency Pharmacology - Medication Administration - Airway Management (5) - Medical (12) - Respiratory Emergencies - Cardiac Emergencies - Diabetic Emergencies - Allergic Reaction - Poisoning and Overdose Emergencies - Neurological Emergencies - Abdominal Emergencies - Environmental Emergencies - Behavioral Emergencies - Gynecological Emergencies - Trauma (8) - Trauma Systems/Mechanism of Injury - Hemorrhage and Shock - Burns - Head, Thoracic, Spinal and Abdominal Trauma - Special Considerations (4) - Obstetric Emergencies - Neonatal Resuscitation - Pediatrics - Geriatrics - Ambulance Operations (2) 20 Mandatory Topic Hours - Emergency Vehicle Operation (4) - Hazardous Materials (3) - Domestic Preparedness (4) - Pediatrics (3) - Geriatrics (3) - State BLS Protocol Review/Regional Protocol Review (3) 74 hours of additional continuing education EMT-Paramedic 48 hours of Refresher Training (review of core content) - Preparatory (6) - EMS Systems and Roles and Responsibilities - The Well-Being of the EMT-Paramedic - Illness and Injury Prevention - Medical/Legal Issues - Ethics - General Principles of Pathophysiology - Pharmacology - Venous Access and Medical Administration - Therapeutic Communications - Life Span Development - Airway Management & Ventilation (6) - Trauma (10) - Trauma Systems/Mechanism of Injury - Hemorrhage and Shock - Soft Tissue Trauma - Burns - Head and Facial Trauma - Spinal Trauma - Thoracic Trauma - Abdominal Trauma - Musculoskeletal Trauma - Medical (18) - Pulmonary - Cardiology - Neurology - Endocrinology - Allergies and Anaphylaxis - Gastroenterology - Renal/Urology - Toxicology - Hematology - Environmental Conditions - Infectious and Communicable Diseases - Behavioral and Psychiatric Disorders - Gynecology - Obstetrics - Special Considerations (6) - Neonatology - Pediatrics - Geriatrics - Abuse and Assault - Patients with Special Challenges - Acute Interventions for the Chronic Care Patient - Operations (2) - Ambulance Operations - Medical Incident Command - Rescue Awareness and Operations - Hazardous Materials Incidents - Crime Scene Awareness 27 Mandatory Topic Hours - Emergency Vehicle Operation (4) - Hazardous Materials (3) - Domestic Preparedness (4) - Pediatrics (6) - Geriatrics (6) - State BLS Protocol Review/Regional Protocol Review (4) 55 hours of additional continuing education activities Core Credit Hours for ACLS, PALS, BTLS / PHTLS, AMLS Paramedic and Critical Care EMTs may use these courses to complete some of the core content hours. Because these courses carry a two-year certification you may receive credit for the hours listed below every two years (Once during a 3-year certification period and twice during a 5-year certification period). These credited hours apply to the two-day course ONLY, Not the one-day refresher courses. The hours listed below are the hours credited for taking each course once. What type of continuing education is accepted? Continuing education programs should include many different learning activities. Topics must be relevant to EMS and/or prehospital care. You must be able to document attendance and participation. A maximum of 25 hours total may be credited for self-study activities through documented continuing education via publications, video and/or Internet training. A maximum of 16 hours may be credited for teaching CPR. The CIC of record teaching an EMT/AEMT course can use the course to complete the "refresher training" requirement for the level of the course once per year. (E.g. teaching EMT-B = 10 Hours, AEMT-I = 14 hrs, etc.) A maximum of 20 hours may be credited for national continuing education programs like PHTLS, BTLS, PALS, ACLS, MALS, Auto Extrication courses, etc. (This over and above hours used for core content) A maximum of 3 hours per year may be credited for any one specific topic. (Not including the above national courses) Examples of Self Study Activities: - Magazine articles (JEMS, Emergency Medical Services) - Videos (Pulse/EMU, FETN, etc) - Interactive CD - Web-based courses Examples of Other Continuing Education Activities - Journal Clubs - Structured Call Review/Audits, Grand Rounds - Agency Drills or in-service training - Lectures, Seminars, EMS Conferences - Nationally recognized continuing education programs - Pediatric Courses (PALS/APLS, PPCC, PEPP) - Trauma Courses (PHTLS, BTLS) - Adult and Geriatric Medical Emergencies (MALS) - Ambulance Driving (CEVO, EVOC, Defensive Driving) - OSHA required training - HAZMAT - Directed Studies - Literature review - Research Continuing education credit can only be received for time the candidate actually participates in the activity. As an example if an 8-hour course ends 2 hours early, the participant can only receive credit for 6 hours. How will the 5-year Pilot Recertification Program be Evaluated? As a pilot study, the program must evaluate the impact of the program on the quality of patient care, and the effectiveness of the program in retaining EMTs/AEMTs. The evaluation process will include a minimum of the following: Surveys and Questionnaires Participants Participants will be surveyed to determine their experience with the program. (E.g. ease and convenience in comparison to traditional refresher programs, scope and breadth of learning, and impact on decision to recertify) Agency Chief Officers The leadership of participating EMS Agencies will also be surveyed to determine their experience with the program. (E.g. helping to retain more EMTs/AEMTs on-line, notice of any differences in providers who are participating in the program versus those who are not, difficulty providing in-service training, drills and other continuing education activities) Agency Medical Directors Medical Directors will be surveyed on their participation and experience with the program. (E.g. is the continuing education being offered is adequate to maintain or improve the quality of patient care? Is there a difference in the care provided by participants versus non-participants?) Receiving Hospitals Emergency Department staff will be interviewed to determine their awareness of the program and evaluation of prehospital care provided by agencies in the program. Integration with hospital quality improvement activities. Hospital provision of continuing education for EMS providers. Participation rate of EMS providers at call reviews, EMS grand rounds, lecture series, etc. REMAC The Department will work with the local REMAC to determine their evaluation of the program. (E.g. impact on the quality of patient care, impact on volume of patient care complaints or protocol violations, participation rate by agencies and providers in quality improvement activities) Random Audits The Department or its designee will conduct audits of randomly selected participants to review and verify their participation in continuing education activities. Attendance records and other documentation will be reviewed for each item listed on the participant's renewal form. Some interviews will be scheduled with participants and/or others involved in the continuing education program. The Department or its designee will audit (visit) some continuing education programs. Random Testing The Department or its designee will test randomly select participants. Testing will be in the form of quizzes or written examination and/or skills examinations. These tests will be used to compare the knowledge and performance of participants in the pilot program with non-participants. The results of the test for any specific individual will remain confidential and will not effect the certification of the individual. Comparison: Participants/Non-Participants A sample group of Participants versus Non-Participants will be used to compare percentages of patient care complaints, protocol violations and disciplinary actions. All information on specific individuals and agencies will remain confidential. Is there funding available for the pilot program? Currently funding is available for the refresher training (review of core content material) portion of the 5-year Pilot Recertification Program. Reimbursement is available to currently certified New York State EMS Course Sponsors who offer the core content material for the pilot program. Reimbursement Rate - EMT-Basic $300.00 - EMT-Intermediate $375.00 - EMT-Critical Care $400.00 - EMT-Paramedic $500.00 Course Sponsors may voucher, in a manner prescribed by the New York State Department of Health Bureau of Emergency Medical Services, for students who complete the requirement of core hours. Completion of the requirement would entitle the sponsor to the total for the level listed above. This funding is for the "core content" hours. There is no additional funding available for the other CME hours required. Information for Course Sponsors Do I Need to File a Course Application For Pilot Refresher Core Material Classes? Yes. Submit a course application with the appropriate level refresher check. WRITE ON THE TOP OF THE APPLICATION PILOT CORE COURSE. Submit a schedule of the sessions and topics covered with dates and times as usual. Leave the testing dates (practical and written) blank. This course will be assigned a course number, which you will use to submit your voucher for reimbursement when all sessions are complete. Do I Need to Wait Until the Student is Recertified to Voucher for reimbursement? NO. As soon as the scheduled sessions are completed you may submit a voucher accompanied by a list of the students who have completed ALL sessions (name and EMT number) for reimbursement. Can I have Pilot Students Attend Sessions in Regular Refresher or Original Class? YES. You must still file a separate application. Simply attach the schedule for the class you are going to use and enter a learning contract with the pilot students that identify the sessions they must attend to complete their obligation. Can I Seek Reimbursement for Practical Skills Testing of Pilot Students? NO. The reimbursement rate for the pilot does not include practical skills testing. You may wish to provide this for pilot students based on an agreement between your sponsorship and the agency(s) that the student(s) are registered under in the program. There is no state reimbursement for this service. How Much Time Do I Have To Complete The Requirements? You will have until the end of your current certification to complete the requirements of this program and submit the appropriate recertification form to the Department of Health. Can I use CME hours that I have completed before entering the program? Yes. You may use CME and/or refresher training that you can provider documentation for dating back five years from your current expiration date. For example: If your current card expires on 6/30/03 you can use training that you can provide documentation verifying your attendance dating back to 6/30/98. This means if you completed core content material hours or attended a traditional refresher program in the five years preceding your current expiration date (as described above) you will be able to use this to complete the requirement on your first recertification attempt in this program. As stated above you must be able to provide documentation verifying your attendance for these hours. This applies to any training in the other categories needed to complete the required hours as well. I only have a short time left on my current card, should I enter this program? You must make that decision based on the amount of previous training you can show verification for and what you will need to do to complete ALL required hours (previously documented hours + hours yet to be completed). You MUST meet the required number of hours and submit the recertification form to DOH no less than 45 days PRIOR to you current Expiration Date. Other Frequently Asked Questions Can Instructors participate in the Pilot Program? Yes, Certified Instructor Coordinators (CIC) and Certified Lab Instructors (CLI) may participate in the pilot program but they are also required to take the State's written certification examination prior to renewing their CIC/CLI. Certified Instructors must achieve a score as required by instructor certification guidelines in order to renew their instructor certification. The CIC/CLI must contact the EMS Testing Number at 1-800-628-0193 to schedule an exam. It is recommended that the CIC/CLI schedule the examination at least six months prior to the expiration of their instructor certification. Do I have to take the State Written Certification Exam? Pilot participants are not required to take the State written certification examination to recertify their provider certification. However, the course sponsor may require pilot participants to take the quizzes, exams, and practical evaluations that traditional refresher students take. This will evaluate proficiency in the topic areas covered. Participants MUST take any of the quizzes, exams and/or practical evaluations required by the sponsor. I have attended EMS conferences and other continuing education activities already, can any of my previous activities count towards the pilot program? Yes, all continuing education activity you have participated in counting back 5 years from your current expiration date is eligible credit for the pilot recert program. (E.g. if you expire on 6/30/2003 you may use continuing education completed dating back to 6/30/98. This will include any core material covered under the 3-year pilot if you were in that program or core material covered in a FULL refresher course.) You must be able to document your attendance and provide information on the topic, date, time and instructor. Do I get extra time added to my new card if I mail my renewal application in more than nine months before my certification expires? NO. However, if you mail in your recertification packet with nine or less months left on your certification the remaining time will be added to your new card. When do I get my 5-year card? Upon completion of the requirements for the level of certification that you wish to renew and receipt of properly completed application and recertification form, you will be issued a new Certification card with a 5-year expiration date. If I take a full refresher course without taking the state exam with the class, will that meet all the requirements for the 5-year Pilot Recertification? NO. You may apply content hours toward the core requirement but it will not cover the entire requirement of the "additional" hours. What do I send in when it is time to recertify? Send in the appropriate cover sheet and recertification form for the level at which you are recertifying and a copy of any required cards (E.g. CPR, ACLS, PALS, etc.). DO NOT SEND IN YOUR ENTIRE TRAINING FILE. Anything other than the appropriate forms or a cover letter verifying attendance at a "Core material" course will be destroyed. This should be kept in you training file at your agency. Who should I contact if I have any other questions and Where do I send all paperwork and communication for the program?Bureau of Emergency Medical Services New York State Department of Health 433 River Street, Suite 303 Troy, New York 12180 Phone: (518) 402-0996

[Federal Register Volume 76, Number 29 (Friday, February 11, 2011)] [Proposed Rules] [Pages 7782-7788] From the Federal Register Online via the Government Printing Office [] [FR Doc No: 2011-3120] ======================================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE Defense Acquisition Regulations System 48 CFR Chapter 2 Defense Federal Acquisition Regulation Supplement; Rules of the Armed Services Board of Contract Appeals AGENCY: Defense Acquisition Regulations System, Department of Defense (DoD). ACTION: Proposed rule. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: DoD is issuing a proposed rule to update the Rules of the Armed Services Board of Contract Appeals (ASBCA). The proposed rule implements statutory increases in the thresholds relating to the submission and processing of contract appeals and updates statutory references and other administrative information. DATES: Comment date: Interested parties should submit comments in writing to the address shown below on or before March 14, 2011. ADDRESSES: You may submit comments, identified by ``DFARS ASBCA Rules'', using any of the following methods: [cir] Regulations.gov:. Submit comments via the Federal eRulemaking portal by inputting ``DFARS ASBCA Rules'' under the heading ``Enter keyword or ID'' and selecting ``Search.'' Select the link ``Submit a Comment'' that corresponds with ``DFARS ASBCA Rules.'' Follow the instructions provided at the ``Submit a Comment'' screen. Please include your name, company name (if any), and ``DFARS ASBCA Rules'' on your attached document. [cir] E-mail: [email protected]. Include DFARS ASBCA Rules in the subject line of the message. [cir] Fax: 703-681-8535 [cir] Mail: Armed Services Board of Contract Appeals, Attn: Catherine Stanton, Skyline Six, Room 703, 5109 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA 22041-3208. Comments received generally will be posted without change to, including any personal information provided. To confirm receipt of your comment, please check approximately two to three days after submission to verify posting (except allow 30 days for posting of comments submitted by mail. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Catherine Stanton, Executive Director, ASBCA, 703-681-8503, Internet address: [email protected]; or David Houpe, Chief Counsel, ASBCA, 703-681-8510, Internet address: [email protected]. SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: I. Background The rule is being issued on behalf of Mr. Paul Williams, Chairman, Armed Services Board of Contract Appeals. It proposes to amend DFARS Appendix A, Armed Services Board of Contract Appeals, Part 2--Rules, to update thresholds related to requirements for contractor claims and to update information as follows: [cir] The Preface, section II(a), is amended to update the Board's address and telephone number. [cir] In Rule 1, subsections (b) and (c) implement section 2351(b) of Public Law 103-355, 108 Stat. 3322 (1994). Section 2351(b) amended 41 U.S.C. 605(c) to increase, from $50,000 to $100,000, the threshold relating to certification, decision, and notification requirements for contractor claims. [cir] Rule 12.1, subsection (a), and Rule 12.3, subsection (b), implement section 2351(d) of Public Law 103-355, 108 Stat. 3322 (1994). Section 2351(d) amended 41 U.S.C. 608(a) to increase, from $10,000 to $50,000, the threshold for applicability of small claims procedures for disposition of appeals. [cir] Rule 12.1, subsection (a) implements section 857 of Public Law 109-364, 120 Stat. 2349 (2006). Section 857 amended 41 U.S.C. 608(a) to insert after ``$50,000 or less'' the following language: ``or, in the case of a small business concern (as defined in the Small Business Act and regulations under that Act), $150,000 or less.'' [cir] Rule 12.1, subsection (b), implements section 2351(c) of Public Law 103-355, 108 Stat. 3322 (1994). Section 2351(c) amended 41 U.S.C. 607(f) to increase, from $50,000 to $100,000, the threshold for applicability of accelerated procedures for disposition of appeals. [cir] Rule 28, subsection (b), implements section 4322(b)(7) of Public Law 104-106, 110 Stat. 677 (1996). Section 4322(b)(7) amended 41 U.S.C. 612 to update statutory references relating to payment of claims. Rule 28, subsection (b), also contains changes for consistency with the judgment fund certification process specified in the Treasury Financial Manual, Financial Management Service, Department of the U.S. Treasury. [cir] Minor changes were made throughout the Rules to ensure uniformity and to correct typographical errors. II. Executive Order 12866 This rule was not subject to Office of Management and Budget review under Executive Order 12866, dated September 30, 1993. This rule implements current statutory provisions relating to the submission and processing of contract appeals, primarily adjusting current dollar limits affecting the processing of contract appeals to keep pace with inflation. Therefore, the adjustment of thresholds just maintains the status quo. Accordingly, DoD has not performed an initial regulatory flexibility analysis. DoD invites comments from small businesses and other interested parties on the expected impact of this rule on small entities. IV. Paperwork Reduction Act The rule does not impose any information collection requirements that require the approval of the Office of Management and Budget under the [[Page 7783]] Paperwork Reduction Act, 44 U.S.C. 3501, et seq. List of Subjects in 48 CFR, Appendix A, Part 2 Government procurement. Ynette R. Shelkin, Editor, Defense Acquisition Regulations System. Therefore, 48 CFR chapter 2 is amended as follows: 1. The authority citation for 48 CFR chapter 2 continues to read as follows: Authority: 41 U.S.C. 421 and 48 CFR chapter 1. Chapter 2--Defense Acquisition Regulations System, Department of Defense 2. Appendix A to Chapter 2 is amended by revising, Part 2--Rules to read as follows: Appendix to Chapter 2 --Armed Services Board of Contract Appeals * * * * * Part 2--Rules Revised [DATE] RULES OF THE ARMED SERVICES BOARD OF CONTRACT APPEALS PREFACE I. JURISDICTION FOR CONSIDERING APPEALS The Armed Services Board of Contract Appeals (referred to herein as the Board) has jurisdiction to decide any appeal from a decision of a contracting officer, pursuant to the Contract Disputes Act of 1978, 41 U.S.C. 601-613, or its Charter, relative to a contract made by-- (a) the Department of Defense, the Department of the Army, the Department of the Navy, and the Department of the Air Force or the National Aeronautics and Space Administration or (b) any other department or agency, as permitted by law. II. LOCATION AND ORGANIZATION OF THE BOARD (a) The Board's address is Skyline Six, Room 703, 5109 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA 22041-3208, telephone 703-681-8500 (receptionist), 703-681. Hearings may be held by a designated member (Administrative Judge), or by a duly authorized examiner. Except for appeals processed under the expedited or accelerated procedure, the decision of a majority of a division constitutes the decision of the Board, unless the Chairman refers the appeal to the Board's Senior Deciding Group (consisting of the Chairman, Vice Chairmen, and all division heads), in which event a decision of a majority of that group constitutes the decision of the Board. Appeals referred to the Senior Deciding Group are those of unusual difficulty or significant precedential importance, or which have occasioned serious dispute within the normal division decision process. For decisions of appeals processed under the expedited or accelerated procedure, see Rules 12.2(c) and 12.3(b). TABLE OF CONTENTS RULES OF THE ARMED SERVICES BOARD OF CONTRACT APPEALS PRELIMINARY PROCEDURES Rule 1 Appeals, How Taken Rule 2 Notice of Appeal, Contents of Rule 3 Docketing of Appeals Rule 4 Preparation, Content, Organization, Forwarding, and Status of Appeal File Rule 5 Motions Rule 6 Pleadings Rule 7 Amendments of Pleadings or Record Rule 8 Hearing Election Rule 9 Prehearing Briefs Rule 10 Prehearing or Presubmission Conference Rule 11 Submission Without a Hearing Rule 12 Optional SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) and ACCELERATED Procedures Rule 13 Settling the Record Rule 14 Discovery--Depositions Rule 15 Interrogatories to Parties, Admission of Facts, and Production and Inspection of Documents Rule 16 Service of Papers Other than Subpoenas HEARINGS Rule 17 Where and When Held Rule 18 Notice of Hearings Rule 19 Unexcused Absence of a Party Rule 20 Hearings: Nature, Examination of Witnesses Rule 21 Subpoenas Rule 22 Copies of Papers Rule 23 Post-Hearing Briefs Rule 24 Transcript of Proceedings Rule 25 Withdrawal of Exhibits REPRESENTATION Rule 26 The Appellant Rule 27 The Government DECISIONS Rule 28 Decisions MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION Rule 29 Motion for Reconsideration SUSPENSIONS, DISMISSALS, DEFAULTS, REMANDS Rule 30 Suspensions; Dismissal Without Prejudice Rule 31 Dismissal or Default for Failure to Prosecute or Defend Rule 32 Remand from Court TIME, COMPUTATION, AND EXTENSIONS Rule 33 Time, Computation, and Extensions EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS Rule 34 Ex parte Communications SANCTIONS Rule 35 Sanctions EFFECTIVE DATE AND APPLICABILITY Rule 36 Effective Date RULES PRELIMINARY PROCEDURES Rule 1. Appeals, How Taken (a) Notice of an appeal shall be in writing and mailed or otherwise furnished to the Board within 90 days from the date of receipt of a contracting officer's decision. A copy thereof shall be furnished to the contracting officer from whose decision the appeal is taken. (b) Where the contractor has submitted a claim of $100,000 or less to the contracting officer and has requested a written decision within 60 days from receipt of the request, and the contracting officer has not provided one within the period required, the contractor may file a notice of appeal as provided in subparagraph (a) hereof, citing the failure of the contracting officer to issue a decision. (c) Where the contractor has submitted a properly certified claim over ) hereof,. Rule 2. Notice of Appeal, Contents of A notice of appeal should indicate that an appeal is being taken and should identify the contract (by number), the department and [[Page 7784]] designate the notice of appeal as a complaint, if it otherwise fulfills the requirements of a complaint. Rule 3. Docketing of Appeals When a notice of appeal in any form has been received by the Board, it shall be docketed promptly. Notice in writing shall be given to the appellant with a copy of these Rules, and to the contracting officer. Rule 4. Preparation, Content, Organization, Forwarding, and Status of Appeal File (a) Duties of Contracting Officer--Within 30 days of receipt of an appeal, or notice that an appeal has been filed, the contracting officer shall assemble and transmit to the Board an appeal file consisting of all documents pertinent to the appeal, including- specified hereof, the contracting officer shall furnish the appellant a copy of each document the contracting officer transmits to the Board, except those in subparagraph (a)(2) hereof. As to the latter, a list furnished the appellant indicating specific contractual documents transmitted will suffice. (b) Duties of the Appellant--Within 30 days after receipt of a copy of the appeal file assembled by the contracting officer, the appellant shall transmit to the Board any documents not contained therein which the appellant considers relevant to the appeal, and furnish two copies of such documents to the Government trial attorney. (c) Organization of Appeal File--Documents in the appeal file may be originals or legible facsimiles or authenticated copies, and shall be arranged in chronological order, where practicable, numbered sequentially, tabbed, and indexed to identify the contents of the file. (d) Lengthy such a waiver has been granted, the party shall notify the other party that the document or a copy is available for inspection at the offices of the Board or of the filing party. (e). (f) Notwithstanding the foregoing, the filing of the Rule 4(a) and (b) documents may be dispensed with by the Board either upon request of the appellant in its notice of appeal or thereafter upon stipulation of the parties. Rule 5. Motions appeal, and shall do so by an appropriate order, affording the parties an opportunity to be heard thereon. (b) The Board may entertain and rule upon other appropriate motions. Rule 6. Pleadings (a) Appellant--Within 30 days after receipt of notice of docketing of the appeal, the appellant shall file with the Board an original and two copies of a complaint setting forth simple, concise, and direct statements of each of its claims. The unless a copy has been provided directly by the appellant. Should the complaint not be received within 30 days, the appellant's claim and appeal may, if in the opinion of the Board the issues before the Board are sufficiently defined, be deemed to set forth its complaint and the Government shall be so notified. (b) Government--Within 30 days from receipt of the complaint, or the aforesaid notice from the Board, the Government shall prepare and file with the Board an original and two copies of an answer thereto. The answer shall set forth simple, concise, and direct statements of the Government's defenses to each claim asserted by the appellant, including any affirmative defenses available. Upon receipt of the answer, the Board shall serve a copy upon the appellant. Should the answer not be received within 30 days, the Board may, in its discretion, enter a general denial on behalf of the Government, and the appellant shall be so notified. (c) A party who intends to raise an issue concerning the law of a foreign country shall give notice in its., permit either party to amend its pleading upon conditions fair to both parties. When issues within the proper scope of the appeal, but not raised by the pleadings, are tried by express or implied consent of the parties, or by permission of the Board, they shall be treated in all respects as if they had been raised therein. such evidence.. Rule 10. Prehearing or Presubmission Conference -- (1) Simplification, clarification, or severing of the issues; (2) The possibility of obtaining stipulations, admissions, agreements, and rulings on admissibility of documents, understandings on matters already of record, [[Page 7785]] pre-trial conferences, including any rulings and orders, shall be reduced to writing by the Administrative Judge or examiner, and this writing shall thereafter constitute a part of the record.. Rule 12. Optional SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) and ACCELERATED Procedures (These procedures are available solely at the election of the appellant.) 12.1 Elections to Utilize SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) and ACCELERATED Procedures (a) In appeals where the amount in dispute is $50,000 or less, or in the case of a small business concern (as defined in the Small Business Act and regulations under that Act), $150,000 or less, the appellant may elect to have the appeal processed under a SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) procedure requiring decision of the appeal, whenever possible, within 120 days after the Board receives written notice of the appellant's election to utilize this procedure. The details of this procedure appear in section 12.2 of this Rule. An appellant may elect the ACCELERATED procedure rather than the SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) procedure for any appeal where the amount in dispute is $50,000 or less. (b) In appeals where the amount in dispute is , once made, may not be withdrawn except with permission of the Board and for good cause. 12.2 The SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) Procedure (a) In appeals proceeding under the SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) procedure, the following time periods shall apply: appeals processed under the SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) procedure will be short and appellant shall have no value as precedent, and in the absence of fraud, shall be final and conclusive and may not be appealed or set aside. 12.3 The ACCELERATED Procedure (a) In appeals. (b) Written decision by the Board in appeals an appeal where the amount in dispute is $50,000 or less as to which the ACCELERATED procedure has been elected and in which there has been a hearing, the single Administrative Judge presiding at the hearing may, with the concurrence of both parties,. 12.4 Motions for Reconsideration in Rule 12 Appeals Motions for reconsideration of appeals decided under either the SMALL CLAIMS (EXPEDITED) procedure or the ACCELERATED procedure need not be decided within the original 120-day or 180-day limit, but all such motions shall be processed and decided rapidly so as to fulfill the intent of this Rule. Rule 13. Settling the Record hearing briefs, and documents which the Board has specifically designated to be made a part of the record. The record will, at all reasonable times, be available for inspection by the parties at the office of the Board. (b) Except as the Board may otherwise order in its discretion, no proof shall be received in evidence after completion of an oral hearing or, in cases submitted on the record, after notification by the Board that the case is ready for decision. [[Page 7786]] (c). (e) Expenses--Each party shall bear its own expenses associated with the taking of any deposition. (f) Subpoenas--Where appropriate, a party may request the issuance of a subpoena under the provisions of Rule 21. 45 days after service; (c) a request for the production, inspection, and copying of any documents or objects not privileged, which reasonably may lead to the discovery of admissible evidence, to be answered or objected to within 45 days after service. The Board may allow a shorter or longer time. Any discovery engaged in under this Rule shall be subject to the provisions of Rule 14(a) with respect to general policy and protective orders, and of Rule 35 with respect to sanctions.. HEARINGS Rule 17.. Rule 18. Notice of Hearings The parties shall be given at least 15 days notice of the time and place set for hearings. In scheduling hearings, the Board will consider the desires of the parties and the requirement for just and inexpensive determination of appeals without unnecessary delay. Notices of hearings shall be promptly acknowledged by the parties. Rule 19. Rule 11. Rule 20. Hearings: Nature, Examination of Witnesses (a) Nature of Hearings--Hearings shall be as informal as may be reasonable and appropriate under the circumstances. The--Witnesses before the Board will be examined orally under oath or affirmation, unless the presiding Administrative Judge or examiner shall otherwise order. If the testimony of a witness is not given under oath, the Board may advise the witness that his or her. Rule 21. Subpoenas (a) General--Upon written request of either party filed with the Recorder, or on his or her own initiative, the Administrative Judge to whom an appeal is assigned or who is otherwise designated by the Chairman papers--in addition to (1) or (2) hereof, the production by the witness at the deposition or hearing of books and papers (including electronically stored information and other tangible things) Subpoena-- (1) A request for subpoena shall normally be filed at least-- ) [[Page 7787]] or her discretion,) Contumacy or Refusal to Obey a. Rule 22. Copies of Papers When books, records, papers, or documents have been received in evidence, a true copy thereof or of such part thereof as may be material or relevant may be substituted therefor, during the hearing or at the conclusion thereof. Rule 23. Posthearing Briefs Posthearing briefs may be submitted upon such terms as may be directed by the presiding Administrative Judge or examiner at the conclusion of the hearing. Rule 24. Transcript of Proceedings Testimony and argument at hearings shall be reported verbatim, unless the Board otherwise orders. Waiver of transcript may be especially suitable for hearings under Rule 12.2. Transcripts of the proceedings shall be supplied to the parties at such rates as may be established by contract between the Board and the reporter, provided that ordinary copy of transcript shall be supplied to the appellant at an amount no greater than the cost of duplication. discretion as a condition of granting permission for such withdrawal. REPRESENTATION Rule 26.. Rule 27. The Government Government counsel may, in accordance with their authority, represent the interest of the Government before the Board. They shall file notices of appearance with the Board, and notice thereof will be given the appellant or the appellant's attorney in the form specified by the Board from time to time. DECISIONS Rule 28. Decisions (a) Decisions of the Board will be made in writing and authenticated copies of the decision will be forwarded simultaneously to both parties. The Rules of the Board and all final orders and decisions (except those required for good cause to be held confidential and not cited as precedents) shall be open for public inspection at the offices of the Board. Decisions of the Board will be made solely upon the record, as described in Rule 13. (b) Any monetary award to a contractor by the Board shall be promptly paid in accordance with the procedures provided by 31 U.S.C. 1304, as amended. To assure prompt payment, the Recorder will forward the required forms to each party with the decision. If the parties do not contemplate an appeal or motion for reconsideration, they will execute the waiver forms which so state. The Government agency will forward the waiver and other forms with a copy of the decision to the Department of the Treasury for certification of payment.. SUSPENSIONS, DISMISSALS, DEFAULTS, REMANDS Rule 30. Suspensions; Dismissal Without Prejudice The Board may suspend the proceedings by agreement of counsel for settlement discussions, or for good cause shown. In certain cases, appeals docketed before the Board are required to be placed in a suspense status, and the Board is unable to proceed with disposition thereof for reasons not within the control of the Board. Where the suspension has continued, or may a default by the appellant, issue an order to show cause why the appeal should not be dismissed or, in the case of a default by the Government, issue an order to show cause why the Board should not act thereon pursuant to Rule 35. If good cause is not shown, the Board may take appropriate action.. TIME, COMPUTATION, AND EXTENSIONS Rule 33. Time, Computation, and Extensions (a) Where possible, procedural actions should be taken in less time than the maximum time allowed. Where appropriate and justified, however, extensions of time will be granted. All requests for extensions of time shall be in writing. (b) In computing any period of time, the day of the event from which the designated period of time begins to run shall not be [[Page 7788]] included, but the last day of the period shall be included unless it is a Saturday, Sunday, or a Federal legal public holiday, in which event the period shall run to the end of the next business day. EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS Rule 34. or to ex parte communications concerning the Board's administrative functions or procedures. SANCTIONS Rule 35. Sanctions If any party fails or refuses to obey an order issued by the Board, the Board may then make such order as it considers necessary to the just and expeditious conduct of the appeal. EFFECTIVE DATE AND APPLICABILITY Rule 36. Effective Date These Rules shall apply-- (a) mandatorily, to all appeals relating to contracts entered into on or after 1 March 1979, and (b) at the contractor's election, to appeals relating to earlier contracts, with respect to claims pending before the contracting officer on 1 March 1979 or initiated thereafter. Paul Williams, Chairman, Armed Services Board of Contract Appeals. [FR Doc. 2011-3120 Filed 2-10-11; 8:45 am] BILLING CODE 5001-08-P

Rep. Barney Frank is attempting to get House members to sign a letter to President Obama which requests the release of Jonathan Pollard, who is serving a life sentence for spying for Israel. In exchange for Pollard, the US would get a three-month extension on the temporary and partial Israeli freeze on settlement construction on the West Bank. This deal is the brainchild of Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu according to the Hebrew language version of Ha’aretz. Frank is peddling Netanyahu’s deal as a US gesture of good intentions toward Israel.…. The chances that Netanyahu and Frank can spring Pollard anytime soon seem slim. There is a long history of denying clemency requests for Pollard and Obama is not one that is likely to ignore precedent. Also, US defense establishment has traditionally been against granting clemency, and Obama is said to stand in awe of the military. You have to figure, however, that Netanyahu still believes that “America is something that can be moved easily” or he would never have proposed the Pollard-for-a-freeze-extension deal. Apparently the US congress has two sets of rules, one for Israel and one for the rest of the world. Why would the US release a convicted spy/traitor and what on earth does releasing him have to do with the ME peace process? I used to have respect for Barney Frank but he has proven to be a blind supporter of Israel. Frank is a poster child for PEP. Maybe Frank could make a counter-offer – free Pollard in exchange for Mordechai Vanunu to leave Israel and settle in the US. Barney supports Israel no matter what they do. No matter how much what Israel does to undermine and endanger the U.S. and U.S. citizens. Frank is all about being aggressive with Iran. Barney did vote no on the Iraq war resolution. No way they will let Pollard go. All they I would have to say if they threw in Modechai Vanunu, and stop the expansion of all illegal settlements all together then let the deal begin Larry King interviewed the Iranian leader on his show earlier this week. When said leader suggested the Palestinians had some justification for their protests against Israel and they, after all, had nothing to do with the Holocaust, Larry nearly jumped out of his famous suspenders growling jews had all the right in the world, after all “nine million were killed in the Holocaut!” Shouldn’t Obama & Co be demanding various compliances with international law or threaten to withhold aid instead? Such as reigning in the settlers? Such as stop stealing land? Maybe even throw in demanding the release of Mordechai Vanunu, allowing him to leave the country? And several hundred other things as well. Just who is it runs “our” former colonies nowadays???!!! Just read your release Mordechai demand…what a brave man I have been unable to obtain a copy of the “Dear Colleague” letter, but this issue is particularly dear to Anthony Weiner, who has been lobbying for the release of Pollard every year for many years. It’s weird to imagine any other Congressman who provides constituent services for a foreign spy and does not end up in Guantanamo. In the case of Barney Frank, he has thrown away any credibility as an occasionally maverick Jewish politician with occasionally independent progressive positions. I hate to say it, but when Jewish politicians do crap like this, it only reinforces the suspicions of anti-Semites who point at their dual loyalty — or in this case — misplaced loyalty. Weiner? Really? creepy Was looking for anything to back up your claim about Rep Anthony Weiner being in support of releasing Pollard Here we go link to jonathanpollard.org March 14, 2001 Hon. Wilma Lewis United States Attorney District of Columbia 555 Fourth Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20001 Re: United States v. Jonathan Jay Pollard Crim. No. 86-0207 (NHJ) Dear Ms. Lewis: On November 29, 2000, I wrote to you urging that you grant Mr. Pollard’s security-cleared defense counsel access to the classified portions of the court docket. I have not received any response to that letter. Since then, your office has continued to oppose any access to the classified record by Mr. Pollard’s counsel. On January 12, 2001, Hon. Norma Holloway Johnson agreed with your office’s position and denied defense counsel’s motion for access. As a Member of Congress, I would like to know: * For each classified portion of the five classified documents, what is the classification (e.g., confidential, secret, top secret)? * For each classified portion of the five classified documents, what is the declassification schedule? * How many people have been accorded access to any of these classified documents since March 4, 1987, the day of Mr. Pollard’s sentencing? I look forward to your prompt response. Very truly yours, (signed) Congressman Anthony Weiner don’t see a letter asking for his release another from Weiner Congress of the United States House of Representatives Washington DC 20515-3209 Congressman Anthony D. Weiner June 11, 2001 ehren, No, it’s not ‘misplaced loyalty’, it’s out and out and in-yer-face traitorism. Barney Frank is a lowly, self-centered and corrupt to the bone politician. Disgusting temerity! Name and shame and vote f–kers like Barney out! You need to understand what Pollard did. Deaths Caused: 120 CIA agents, their families, CIA handlers, and over 1600 CIA assets. Tortured, murdered, shots to the back of their heads. What Pollard did is still classified to this day, so American can’t know the full story. Six former Secretaries of Defense wrote Presidents Bush Sr., and Clinton not to pardon him. George Tenet and high-level senior CIA officials threatened to resign on the spot if Clinton pardoned Pollard. Allan C. Bromfeld of the American Council on Judaism: What Pollard did, from Veterans Today: Seymour Hersh in the 1999 New Yorker article Why Pollard Should Never Be Released (The Traitor) We just executed a woman for getting accomplices to kill her husband and step-son for the insurance money, and Barney Frank wants us to trade this traitor, who has been called the worst spy in all of US history, who caused the torture and death of 120 American covert agents and their families, in exchange for a freeze on settlements for three months in negotiations that do not involve us? [Ronald Pelton, an NSA technician, is serving three life terms plus 10 years for selling electronic eavesdropping to Russia. Pollard gave the Israeli/Russians the whole megillah; he was given the identification number of the beyond-top-secret documents to pull from the library he had clearance for and that's how he pulled them out; a 2008 Newsweek article by Michael Isikoff said the FBI and CIA are still working to find the mole who gave Israel those document numbers when they arrested an 80-year-old US Army guy in 2008 in connection with the Pollard case who had the same Israeli handlers.] Has this country finally gone 100% insane? And to think Pollard’s sitting in jail with Bernie Madoff. They’re block mates. Essentially, Israel traded US security to the Soviets in exchange for Avigdor Lieberman. And a bunch of antisemitic Nazi skinheads who came with him. And then the US paid for all those russki thugs to go to Israel. What a bargain. I’ll remember this for the purpose of countering anti-semitic stereotypes about Jews being clever in business and always getting the better part of the deal And let’s be really clear about this: When Pollard did what he did, and when he got caught, and when he got sentenced, he was an American citizen. He is an American traitor. Israel typed up an Israeli passport for him while he’s been sitting in jail, and now claiming he’s an Israeli, an Israeli hero. B.S. he is. His Israeli passport is the paper equivalent of him jumping bail at the DC airport. He’s an American citizen. And an American traitor. He can ‘go home to Israel’ in an effing pine box. I forgot the link for Veterans Today: link to veteranstoday.com The last three paragraphs of Allan C Brownfeld’s article (link above.) And since just started the seven days of Sukkot, something to think about: Thanks for reminding us “120 CIA agents, their families, CIA handlers, and over 1600 CIA assets. Tortured, murdered, shots to the back of their heads.” What a scum bag. Amazing that U.s. Israeli relationship was maintained and still so much money to Israel. I know there was an investigation into the cost to U.S. National Security in both lives and money in the Valerie Plame outing. Will we ever know about how her outing by the Bush administration effected U.S. national security? People have been executed in this country for far far less. Wonder why he was not sentenced to be executed? You can bet that the Israelis and their minions in the US Congress know exactly what Pollard did. But all that matters to them is that Pollard is a Jew and thus deserves immunity for any crime. RE: “But all that matters to them is that Pollard is a Jew and thus deserves immunity for any crime.” – potsherd MY COMMENT: Does that include Jews like Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Richard Goldstone, Mordechai Vanunu, Uri Avnery, etc? Here’ a question; is there anything a jewish person or persons(s) can do “for” Israel that would NOT be forgiven – if not outright justified – by the jewish American establishment? if a “Jewish “person” were, say, to assassinate Obama, Israel would probably make him/her an especially honorary citizen. And Barney and friends would find reason why that’s not such a bad thing (ie, after bleating for the mandatory 4 days) and besides said hypothetical ‘assassin’ was just somewhat deranged – maybe [understandably] driven nut by that creeping sharia law or something. And while I am on hypothetical, the really really sad thing is to realize that there is absolutely nothing Israel can do that would be horrible enough for the same “Jewish establishment” to condemn. Shocking as it may seem, I do honestly believe that were israel to literally gas the 100,000 Gazans into oblivion, or send 1 M palestinians packing – right on prime time TV for all to see – most israelis would excuse that as necessary, going on to party as they have before; even as a very sizable number of jewish Americans (right along with their christian zionist blood brothers and sisters). Oh, and Witty would be here, braying for understanding of “the other”, offering his humanism and preaching against “maximalist” responses. Danaa, sad isn’t it…that you’re right. Danaa, let’s face it, Maximalism is the source of all evil in the world. We need more minimalism to balance things off. Plus, minimalism is the latest rave nowadays, even architects and interior designers agree. “minimalism is the latest rave nowadays” has been around for a while. Remember the Bauhaus. The Nazis closed them down, and off they went – to the US, to Palestine. White City, Tel Aviv, for instance True. Good point. Another good point: Internment of innocent German Americans in Crystal City, TX. This was done even before Hitler joined Japan’s war on the USA. Jonathan Pollard, an American of Jewish ancestry and Zionist extremist views who publicly acclaims that he tried to destroy America to help maintain the “racial purity of Israel.” If that is accurate, I am ROTFLMSJAO!!! Cause nothing would help protect the “racial purity” of Israel like an America too weak to support it. 120 CIA agents, their families, CIA handlers, and over 1600 CIA assets. Tortured, murdered, shots to the back of their heads. MRW, please explain how a civilian working with the US Navy could be responsible for the deaths of covert CIA Agents, their handlers, and assets? Why does this blog allow this nonsense to be repeated, when it is obviously a lie? You need to read the links I gave above and do your own research. I dont have the time to write a treatise. And just for the record, the guy who wrote the Veterans Today article has a Jewish mother, but I don’t think he’s religious. I’ve followed this story since 1986, when it broke during the Cold War. Dershowitz copped Pollard a lifetime sentence to keep him from going to trial and getting the death sentence, then he quoted the indictment as what he was presumably guilty of. The short answer is that Pollard handed over all the names of all the CIA covert agents, handlers, and assets behind the Iron Curtain as part of the complete nuclear and conventional attack plan against the USSR, all the NATO attack plans, etc. Israel gave them to Russia in trade for Jews out of the USSR. Next time you accuse me of nonsense, read the information first. It’s either that or you’re not the sharpest knife in the drawer. A Civilian in the navy doesn’t get names of CIA operatives. You can keep repeating the same nonsense, but it is not true. I don’t care who has a Jewish mother or not, a lie is a lie. I’ve done my research and I haven’t seen a single article, even on conspiracy sites you’ve linked to, which says as much. Pollard is scum and deserves to spend his entire life in jail. I am not arguing with that. But dont turn his crimes into something they weren’t. Fixed blockquote. —— That’s how informants get information, they sympathize with the listener, put him at ease, agree with him, and as soon as the listener feels comfortable around them, he spills the beans, thus falling in the trap set up by the informant. In common parlance they’re called shtinkers, squealers. What I’m getting at is that you’re not interested in understanding the charges against Pollard, but instead you’re interested in starting a discussion about his crimes and what will most likely degenerate into false allegations as you dismiss commenters and the information they provide as “liars”. We’ve all been to 4th grade. We all know how those games work. If you want an answer to your question, read the links provided by MRW. He’s already posted the information. All you have to do is read it. Simple enough, right? The irony with Zionists is that they rarely see their own hypocrisy. Here you are presented with facts on the Pollard case, but since those facts don’t agree with your agenda, you reject them as outright lies. Worse yet, then you turn around and use that tactic — of equating fact with opinion — with matters related to the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories. And so you come up with the assertion that It’s not easy debating your kind when you are so inclined to play games, to deceive and to use dirty tricks. Some honesty would be nice. MRW, please explain how a civilian working with the US Navy could be responsible for the deaths of covert CIA Agents, their handlers, and assets? link to en.wikipedia.org Well worth a read. Pollard deserves life sentence. Israeli espionage in the US is the perfect lever with which a President – if they wished – could cool relations and restore a little sanity. yonira, If you need an explanation as to how Top Secret information can compromise officers in the field, then there’s no point in responding to you and providing you with an answer. It’d be like explaining to a grown man with his cerebral faculties in tact why going to the bathroom in the middle of the street is inappropriate and illegal. <blockquote cite=""Why does this blog allow this nonsense to be repeated, when it is obviously a lie? I see you’ve tacked on your boilerplate for good measure, eh? Rehmat, I need a lesson on how a civilian in the Navy can get top secret information on CIA agents. Please enlighten me, or just denigrate me like you denigrate anyone else who doesn’t agree with you, Zionist or non-Zionist. Please don’t respond to me anymore unless you can add to the conversation. The mondocensors won’t stop your ad-hominems, so I am asking you to stop them on your own. MRW gave you several links. I suggest you read the article from Seymour Hersh. There’s ample information there to answer your rather naive question about the ability of Pollard to jeopardize American agents through the massive theft of intelligence information. Who is naive tree? A civilian in the Navy doesn’t get classified info on CIA operatives. I am not arguing that Pollard shouldn’t spend his life in jail. I am arguing the nonsense about CIA agents dying because of information stolen by a contracted civilian in the Navy. ‘Why did Israel send this information to Russia, the names of all American intelligence assets behind the Iron Curtain, the exact locations of all NATO nuclear weapons facilities, missile silos and detail on how to defeat America’s defenses from nuclear attack?’ — Veterans Today How is it that the bipartisan political consensus in Washington continues to describe Israel as a close friend of the US, when Israel severely compromised US security in the 1980s by sharing US nuclear defense secrets with Russia? This grave act of hostility on Israel’s part came less than 20 years after its deadly attack on the USS Liberty in international Mediterranean waters, killing 34 US sailors. All objective evidence suggests — and I will continue to insist — that Israel is probably the most vicious enemy the United States has. This is particularly so because of Israel’s snake-in-the-grass, false-friend pose. Israel’s myriads of overt agents (e.g. Barney Frank, Eliot Engel, et al) give it a free pass from elementary disclosure requirements such as FARA, while probable Israeli spies such as Rahm Emanuel are allowed to meet privately with Israeli leaders, in a stunning, flagrant risk to US security that those responsible for guarding leaks of classified information apparently are powerless to prevent. If the true dimensions of Israeli subversion of the United States were revealed, it is likely that dozens or even hundreds of Israeli agents — some of them well-known names — would be facing capital charges for espionage and treason. The trail quite literally leads all the way to the top. we need to lock up more of Israel’s spies not release the ones we have punished Don’t forget the Israeli spies who were apparently following the 9/11 attackers and who cheered as they saw with their own eyes that the information they did have was proven to be correct, while they watched the Twin Towers burn and collapse from atop their van parked in New Jersey. We still don’t know why the members of the Israeli spy ring were deported after being questioned by the FBI. That deportation makes sense if warnings about 9/11 provided by Israel were ignored by an embarrassed US. Were the attackers not on airplanes? How exactly were they ‘following’ them? They minimally videotaped the first plane crashing into the WTC from a nearby building; they themselves identified themselves as Israelis who had come to watch the event when they were arrested with the white van subsequently–laughing and having a great time and photographing themselves with the smoking WTC debris at their backs. link to historycommons.org After they were suddenlty whisked off to Israel one of them appeared on Israeli tv and told the audience he had gone to the USA to follow the event. I am referring to the Israeli spies watching from the roof of their van(s) on the New Jersey side of the Hudson as the Towers were being destroyed. They were part of the ring of Israeli spies rounded up by the FBI and questioned and later deported. Spies, like detectives, “follow” people without being in the same car, room, or plane. The attackers didn’t fall down from heavens into the planes directly on their golden wings. I know you aren’t that stupid, but perhaps you think the rest of us are? Like Avi said, the rest of us have been to fourth grade. However, did you sleep your way through education or what?? How about Obama make this counteroffer to Netanyahu: The release of Pollard in exchange for the release of 10,000 Palestinians rotting in Israeli prisons. After the president’s contemptuous speech yesterday, a gesture of goodwill towards the Palestinians would be much more in order How about Obama make this counteroffer to Netanyahu: NO. Even Obama has sense enough to say no. Though he doesn’t have enough sense–or manhood–to make this demand the “teachable moment” that he could. Keep voting for those Dems ladies and germs. Barney Frank CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WASHINGTON, DC August 12, 2002 The Honorable John Ashcroft Attorney General Department Of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W Washington, D.C. 20530 Dear Attorney General Ashcroft: I understand that Jonathan Pollard, who agreed to a plea bargain but is nonetheless serving the maximum penalty of life imprisonment for his crimes, is filing a motion for re-sentencing in the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia based on ineffective assistance of counsel. It has been reported to me that the Government prosecutors opposed to Mr. Pollard’s motion have repeatedly been afforded access to certain classified materials in the court’s sentencing docket for Mr. Pollard that these same prosecutors refuse to allow Mr. Pollard’s counsel to see even though Mr. Pollard’s counsel has withstood thorough background investigations. Under basic standards of constitutional due process, incriminating evidence is generally shown to a defendant in order to allow him to adequately defend himself. And while I see the need, in the rare case involving national security, to withhold such information from a defendant, I see no purpose in keeping such information from a defendant’s counsel when his counsel has been granted a “Top Secret” security clearance. Indeed, it has been reported to me that Mr. Pollard’s counsel have been determined eligible for the even higher “SCI clearance upon a showing of “Need to know.” I do not think this “need to know” should be unilaterally determined by the same U.S. Attorney whose office is opposing Mr. Pollard’s motion. The question of Mr. Pollard’s guilt or innocence is not the issue here. Fairness means that both sides arguing the motion (and the court) should have access to all relevant materials. And the Government should respond to Mr. Pollard’s petition on the merits, rather than make procedural arguments that he should have somehow discovered the ineffective assistance of his counsel sooner, given our constitutional duty to deal fairly with citizens. (signed) Barney Frank Wow. So he’s been at “this” for some time. Never knew that Kathleen, thanks for the post. link to jonathanpollard.org ‘me’ahora’ [behind] is not capable of leading the nation ‘Kadima’ [forward].” Appears that Rep Frank and Rep Weiner have really gone to bat for Pollard Somehow those boys missed going to bat for Rachel Corrie; I don’t recall them batting for that young Turkish-American on the Gaza boat either. His parents should talk to Rachel’s family, now in lawsuit against Israel. link to jpost.” The U.S. needs to show goodwill towards Israel and the Israeli people according to these four Reps. As if 3 billion a year to Israel is not enough “goodwill” Frank is really exposing himself here and it it does not look good An open appeal to abet treason, colloquially stated. Given what it says systemically/institutionally, this, when one thinks about it, is worse than what Pollard did. This is the kernel of truth, yes, which will undoubtedly get thrown out with the nightly movie theater rubbish. Hey, lighten up, he isn’t responsible for the deaths of any Jews. Goys don’t count. Justin Raimando has one up about the Barney Frank release Pollard issue link to original.antiwar.com Laura Rozen also link to politico.com That’s a great suggestion Raimondo makes: make any release of Pollard conditional on revealing who the higher-up was in the U.S. government who was directing him to the documents Israel wanted. Remember the outrage over outing Valerie Plame? Multiply that by 120, add death, murder of their families and co-workers, and you’ll have one small portion of what he did. Pollard put the entire United States at risk. As CIA Director Casey said, “The Israelis used Pollard to obtain our attack plan against the U.S.S.R. all of it. The coordinates, the firing locations, the sequences.” Where NATO’s missiles were stored here and around the world and the firing codes too. This is just the known unclassified information. If this is what ordinary Israelis want then it is fantastic news isn’t it? Pollard could be used as leverage, but instead of a lame 3 month extension on a freeze that never was, Obama should skip the whole peace negotiations charade and offer up Pollard in exchange for a complete, immediate and permanent Israeli withdrawal to the 67 borders and a declaration of a Palestinian state with E. Jerusalem as its capital. The Arab peace initiative would then take effect. Everyone’s a winner. When the news first broke, I thought Barney Frank was simply overcompensating for his immediate, pure reaction to a Boston Herald reporter immediately following the deadly flotilla assault: link to bit.ly You may recall he got flamed for his spontaneous reaction and backpedalled spectacularly. If he should be ashamed of anything, it should be for raising the issue of freeing the greatest American traitor of the last century. Apparently, Americans are such freiers that our “best friend in the region” can make such a ballsy demand for three months of a fake settlement freeze. By the way, anyone know what’s happening with Stuart Nozette? Slogan we will never see: WHY DO JEWISH CONGRESSMEN LOVE TRAITORS? The really odd statement for me is that Frank and the other three reps are saying that releasing Pollard would be “goodwill” sign to Israeli’s As if not standing up to the endless expansion of illegal settlements etc , the 3 billion a year is not enough “goodwill” Good will? How about giving Israel the latest (very expensive) jet fighter for free? Jobless US taxpayers to buy Israel a bunch of the latest F-35 jet fighters: link to globes.co.il Many western nations have contributed to the development of this jet, as well as Turkey. Israel did not. link to en.wikipedia.org And let’s not forget the good will we give to Israel by vetoing every UN attempt to hold Israel accountable to the world community. Unbelievable. I didn’t know about this case. Israeli arrogance is unlimited, apparently deducing that ordinary law and morality don’t apply to them. Next time some shill starts droning on about how Israel is a ‘special’ friend of the US, I suggest you just direct them to the cases of the USS Liberty and Pollard. Case closed. Let us also not look too closely how US supplied uranium was transferred to Israel to get its nuclear weapons systems up and running. Congress was very very careful not to look too closely either. Most Americans don’t know either case. Obviously the MSM never thought it was important enough to tell them. Israeli companies doing wiretapping in the US include Verint, PerSay, ECtel, Comverse (Comverse Technology, Comverse Infosys), NICE, Check Point, and Narus, among others, are listed in the “Wiretappers” chapter in James Bamford’s: The Shadow Factory (c2008). The recent story about Homeland Security contracting with an Israeli company to spy on Americans on behalf of the state of Pennsylvania, should cause us to suspect that there is now more, and probably a lot more spying by Israel on Americans, than when Bamford first wrote his book. I know why Witty is missing from this thread. He’s busy humanizing Pollard and and will post as soon as he comes up with a good defense for him!

Legislative Program Review and Investigations Committee Findings and Recommendation - Staff Report Committee Accepted December 16, 1999 Commission on Human Rights and Opportunities Findings and Recommendations Section I INTRODUCTION The Legislative Program Review and Investigations Committee directed its staff in March 1999 to conduct a study of the discrimination complaint processes and enforcement policies of the Commission on Human Rights and Opportunities (CHRO). The study scope called for an examination of the mission, policies, structure, and management of the commission related to the handling of illegal discrimination complaints. As noted at the committee briefing in September 1999, the study was prompted in part by turmoil at the commission in recent years, evidenced by: several discrimination lawsuits filed by CHRO employees against other CHRO employees and managers; controversial actions on the part of the former executive director, who held the position from December 1990 to July 1998; and turnover among CHRO commission members. Also, significant legislative changes were made to the CHRO statutes, including: the institution of an early case merit review process; alterations to case processing deadlines; and the institution of full-time human rights referees to hear cases where reasonable cause was found. These changes were described in the committee briefing report. Context of staff proposals. Program review staff has attempted to balance the fact that tremendous management change at the agency has occurred in the last 18 months with the concerns prompting the study, many of which predated the management changes. Recent activities include the following: The challenge for legislative oversight purposes is to determine, at this time, whether the solutions to CHRO problems call for further statutory change or whether the focus should now be to give the new management a chance to work within the current statutory framework. In either case, the enforcement of Connecticut’s civil rights laws is a critical function of state government, which cannot be allowed to flounder if only in perception. At the committee’s October 19, 1999, public hearing, the new CHRO executive director showed an awareness of CHRO problems: My personal observations and those of the consultants [retained by the commission] indicated that, among other things, employee morale was low, there was an erosion of trust between front-line staff and management, the agency is crippled by inadequate resources, there existed inadequate communication between staff and management, inadequate training opportunities, little opportunity for upward career mobility, and inconsistent policies and procedures among regional offices. The recommendations proposed in this report take into account the promise of new leadership, but also suggest ways to promote consistency and objectivity in the execution of the complaint enforcement process, along with increased focus on maintaining accurate data for management purposes. The agency has already begun to work on some areas; where pertinent, agency initiatives and plans will be pointed out in the report. This report sets out program review staff findings and proposed recommendations in three main areas: 1) commission structure; 2) discrimination enforcement process; and 3) management. Methodology Committee staff interviewed various members of current commission staff, representatives of interest groups, current and former commissioners, and former CHRO employees. Staff conducted a focus group of attorneys representing both complainants and respondents to elicit opinions and comments about their experience with the agency. CHRO automated case tracking file data were used to analyze complaint timeframes and outcomes. In addition, staff reviewed in more depth a random sample of case records also based on the agency automated tracking system. The committee held a public hearing on CHRO on October 19, 1999. In addition, staff reviewed the 1999 consultant report commissioned by CHRO to assess the agency's organizational structure and suggest ways to improve operations. Commission staff assigned to the field enforcement units were surveyed and offered a chance to relate in confidence their views on issues affecting the agency's operation. Aggregate responses to the survey are presented in Appendix A and material pertinent to areas under review are used throughout the report. Finally, committee staff gathered information on how human rights agencies are organized and operated around the country. Section II Commission Structure One of the areas under review in the study is the structure of the Commission on Human Rights and Opportunities (CHRO). A central question is who ultimately is accountable for CHRO. Its structure as a state entity charged with enforcing laws, headed by a multi-member volunteer commission that appoints its executive director, is not unique in Connecticut or elsewhere. It is different, of course, from the more typical state agency model where the governor appoints a single commissioner to head a department. In analyzing CHRO’s management structure, committee staff examined the changing role of the commission over the years, compared CHRO and other similarly structured entities in state government, and reviewed the experience in other states. Changing Role of Commission In 1947, when the commission first acquired enforcement authority, the commissioners themselves were charged with investigating complaints. From the beginning, there have always been separate hearing officers appointed to adjudicate cases where reasonable cause was found. Over the years, a staff structure grew to handle investigations and adjudications as well as to assist the commission in its duties. Since that time, the commission has acquired additional authority and responsibility in the areas of state agency affirmative action, contract compliance, and education and outreach. The commissioners as a group are required to vote their approval or disapproval of state agency affirmative action plans. In contrast, the role of the commissioners in CHRO’s original function -- enforcement -- has grown smaller. Up through the 1970s, the commission members as a group voted on findings of reasonable cause and no reasonable cause, giving final approval to staff-recommended investigative dispositions; the commission no longer performs that function. Legislative changes in the last 10 years have continued to shift responsibility from the commissioners (as a group and individually) to CHRO staff, particularly the executive director. In 1989, although there had been an executive director for years, legislation codified the position, and reconstituted the commission. The executive director was given specific duties, previously held by the commission, including: 1) conducting comprehensive planning with respect to the function of the commission; 2) coordinating the activities of the commission; and 3) causing the administrative organization of the commission to be examined with a view to promoting economy and efficiency. One year later, in 1991, the statutory involvement of the commission in enforcement matters began shifting to its staff. Per P.A. 91-302: Finally, in 1998, the legislature removed the responsibility for handling reconsiderations from the commission, giving it to the executive director or his or her designee. Commission authority that has been strengthened, or at least clarified, that impacts enforcement involves authority over the executive director. As discussed in the briefing, 1998 legislation clearly establishes that the executive director serves at the pleasure of the commission. Thus, what remains of the commission authority with respect to enforcement is: All of the above functions could, of course, be handled by a single commissioner-headed agency. The question could be posed why civil rights enforcement shouldn’t be handled the same way as enforcement of consumer protection laws, environmental laws, or insurance laws, all administered in departments headed by single commissioners appointed by the governor. Alternatively, the commissioner of education, the chief executive of the education department, is appointed by the State Board of Education. The conventional wisdom for the use of a board or commission that appoints its own administrative head is to diffuse political influence from the work of the agency involved. There are other enforcement agencies that are similarly structured as CHRO. Specifically, the Freedom of Information Commission (FOIC), the State Ethics Commission (Ethics), and the State Elections Enforcement Commission (EEC) all have multi-member policy boards that appoint their executive directors. Table II-1 compares selected characteristics of these commissions to CHRO. As the table shows, all these commissions are about the same size and the commissioners serve terms of approximately the same length. Their common directive is to investigate and make determinations of violations of state laws. All four employ staff as deemed necessary to perform their duties. Differences are seen in the appointment of the commissions’ chairpersons. Both Ethics and EEC chairpersons are elected by their fellow commissioners while the CHRO and FOIC chairpersons are selected by the governor. In terms of compensation, only the CHRO commissioners do not receive per diem pay for performing their duties. Only CHRO commissioners are not subject to political qualification requirements for member diversity. Finally, only CHRO commissioners are not required to be ratified by the legislature. This last difference is particularly interesting because the gubernatorially appointed CHRO human rights referees, who act like judges in the agency’s adjudications process, must receive the advice and consent of the General Assembly. As the responsibilities of CHRO are as important as those of any of these other agencies, this discrepancy does not make sense. The fact that there is a mixture of gubernatorial and legislative appointments for CHRO commissioners does not distinguish CHRO; other commissions have similarly mixed appointments. Overall, there are similarities and differences among the characteristics of these four Connecticut enforcement agencies. For purposes of this study, the focus is on how the commissioners are appointed and who appoints and removes the administrative head of the agency. In those respects, other than the advice and consent issue, there is great similarity. Other state civil rights agencies. As part of the committee’s review, staff collected information on civil rights agencies in other states. Whenever possible, information was compiled on all states, but some information was gathered only for a select number of states with certain characteristics, including similarities to Connecticut. Forty-seven of the 50 states have an entity within state government that investigates claims of illegal discrimination. In 35 of those 47 states, civil rights enforcement is governed by a human rights commission or board. Boards vary in size, ranging from as few as three commissioners (Massachusetts) to as many as 20 (North Carolina). Commission members are typically appointed by the governor and confirmed by the senate and serve staggered terms of anywhere between three and six years. In some states, statutes mandate the geographical, political, or community group composition of the commission. Commission members are generally paid a per diem allowance for the time they devote to commission affairs rather than receive an annual salary. Typically, a full time executive director who supervises staff and administers the day to day affairs of the agency is appointed by the commission. Detailed information on 12 states in addition to Connecticut was collected by committee staff and is provided in Appendix B. The 12 states include: California, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, and Texas. These states were chosen for one or more of the following reasons: geographic proximity to Connecticut, similar average number of charges filed, similar organizational structure, and/or representing a different geographical region of the country. Table II-2 compares Connecticut to the 12 selected states with respect to organizational structure and role in enforcement. For the 12 states reviewed, program review staff found that most commission members play some role in the enforcement process. (Information on each state's enforcement process is provided in Appendix B). In some states, the commission or board bears the responsibility of making final determinations of reasonable or probable cause. Commission staff investigates cases filed by the charging parties and presents their findings and recommendations to either the full commission or a subcommittee. The commission then serves as a quasi-judicial panel that renders a determination in the case. In other states, commission staff issues determinations without the review of the commission. In cases where the staff find probable cause but are unable to forge a conciliation agreement between the two parties, the commission members will hold a hearing to decide the case and award damages if applicable. Staff decisions can also usually be appealed by either charging party to the commission. Overall, the structure of Connecticut's Commission on Human Rights and Opportunities is organizationally consistent with civil rights agencies in other states, although some distinctions surface with respect to the role in the enforcement process. The direct line of accountability from a commissioner to the governor is appealing in its simplicity. However, given CHRO's role in approving state agency affirmative action plans, including the office of the governor’s plan, an argument could be made that the governor should not be appointing a single commissioner to run CHRO with its current duties. This study did not encompass the affirmative action plan work of the commission. Thus, committee staff does not recommend such structural changes. However, staff believes the current commission with five new and four experienced members, along with a new executive director, are in a position to work together to promote the effective and credible enforcement of civil rights law in Connecticut. The 1998 legislative changes clarifying the status of the executive director provides the commissioners with a clearer statement of their role over the director. With improved data gathering and reporting, as recommended in a following section, the commission should receive relevant and up-to-date information upon which to assess the performance of the executive director and the agency. Committee staff proposes one change with respect to structure. To strengthen accountability and make CHRO more in line with other similar state commissions, the program review staff recommends the appointment of CHRO commissioners be subject to the advice and consent of either house of the General Assembly. Section III CHRO Discrimination Enforcement Process As noted in the introduction, in the last few years, significant statutory amendments to the CHRO enforcement process have been made. These include: the creation of the merit assessment review (MAR) system; the addition of mandatory mediation; and the tightening of the time frame within which investigators have to do their work. Other significant changes have only recently gone into effect, for example, giving the complainant the unilateral right to seek a release of jurisdiction after a MAR dismissal and the addition of full-time hearing officers. Because of all the recent statutory changes, program review staff focused on how CHRO was implementing the enforcement process. The current CHRO enforcement process, described in detail in the September briefing report, has several basic components: complaint intake; an answer to the complaint from the respondent; an early merit assessment review (MAR); investigation to determine whether or not there is reasonable cause to believe discrimination occurred; and, if necessary, a public hearing at which the alleged violation is administratively adjudicated. Many of these steps have statutory deadlines. At any point in the process, the parties can settle the complaint. In reviewing the operations of the enforcement process, program review committee staff found improvements could be made to the implementation of certain aspects of the process, particularly in the steps prior to the public hearing. The areas discussed below include: intake and merit assessment review (MAR); post-MAR investigation, especially the intermingling of mediation and investigation; the human rights referees policies; and assessing user satisfaction. Where staff deems useful, additional descriptive information is provided, along with recommendations. Intake and Merit Assessment Review (MAR) Perhaps the most significant recent change in the enforcement process has been the institution of MAR. The purpose of MAR is to allow CHRO to dismiss some cases without full investigation under certain circumstances. This change was intended to speed up case resolution and provide effective early case disposition. MAR standards and their implementation are important as MAR dismissals are the most common type of complaint disposition making up approximately 40 percent of all case closures. Thus, the early stages of the complaint process are critical. Committee staff examined two aspects: 1) the importance of intake with the advent of the MAR step and its standards, and 2) the timeliness of the MAR process. Importance of intake. To begin the complaint process, an individual may contact CHRO either by phone, mail, in person, or through a legal representative. An investigator handling intake will elicit the individual’s story and go over certain jurisdictional questions to ensure proper filing. However, as a matter of policy, CHRO instructs its staff to advise a complainant he or she has the right to file a complaint regardless of what the intake investigator thinks about the case. At this point, the formal complaint is drafted. Depending on the complainant's circumstances and/or preference, the complaint may be drafted by the intake investigator, the complainant's attorney (if he or she has one), or the complainant. These varied ways in which the formal CHRO complaints are drafted obviously can affect the clarity and comprehensiveness of any given complaint. As it is currently administered, MAR evaluates complaints on the substance of the written materials collected at the start of a complaint. These include the formal complaint, the respondent's answer (often prepared by legal counsel), and any rebuttal to the answer by the complainant. While the complainant has 15 days to respond in writing to the respondent’s answer to the complaint, the original complaint is the primary statement of the complainant’s allegation. There is no provision in the MAR process for the MAR investigator to talk to the complainant. Before the MAR process was instituted, any deficiencies in the complaint could be addressed as part of the investigatory process. However, the creation of the MAR process changed the importance of the original complaint. With this documentation, the enforcement staff determines whether the case should be retained for further investigation or dismissed for one of the following reasons: 1) the complaint states no claim for relief; 2) the complaint is frivolous on its face; or 3) there is no reasonable possibility that reasonable cause will be found that a violation of law has occurred (C.G.S. §46a-83). In reviewing the application of these standards, committee staff found the agency has provided investigators limited guidance documentation. In the CHRO investigator policy manual, there is a merit assessment form to be prepared for each complaint to explain why a case was retained or dismissed. According to the commission form that must be filled out for each MAR decision, the MAR investigator is to: To the extent the standards are understandable, they demonstrate the importance of a complete and well-drafted complaint. The guidance that "unsupported assertions" should not be credited could potentially lead to a legitimate, but incomplete complaint, being dismissed. Committee staff was troubled this summer when after asking the then-deputy director for enforcement what additional guidance CHRO staff was given to apply the MAR standard, he sent to committee staff a one page policy statement he acknowledged had never been included in the policy manual. It was entitled "Policy: Merit Assessment Review Reasons for Retention". That policy statement was subsequently revoked by the new executive director. Furthermore, although the MAR process has been in statute since 1994, no CHRO regulations have been developed to inform the public about how the process works. In addition, current regulations that in effect have been superceded by MAR have not been updated. An example of an intake-related problem created by MAR involves the complainant rebuttal step. A key respondent defense to a discrimination charge is to show there was a non-discriminatory reason for the action taken. Evidence of "pretext", that the non-discriminatory reason was just a cover for a discriminatory action, counters that defense. Before MAR, the regulations called for a CHRO investigator to actually review the respondent's answer to the complaint with the complainant. Although this regulation is still on the books, the MAR process as currently administered does not allow for that kind of communication. Any rebuttal to the respondent's answer, which must occur within 15 days, is left solely up to the complainant. Given the MAR process and standards, committee staff finds CHRO needs to ensure the intake phase is as strong as possible. Program review staff believes clearer agency policies, staff training, and closer management oversight is needed to promote confidence in this process. Recommendations in these areas are further discussed in Section IV. MAR timeliness. Since July 1, 1998, CHRO is required to make a determination on a complaint within 90 days of receiving the respondent's answer. Previously, however, the 90-day MAR period began when the complaint was filed. This standard was in effect in FY 96 and FY 98, the years committee staff selected to review complaints filed to examine the timeliness of this first phase. Table III-1 summarizes and breaks out MAR dismissals by when they occur. As the table shows, a large portion of MAR dismissals occurs within the statutorily required 90 days. The percentage of complaints being dismissed within the 90-day period has increased from 43 percent in 1996 to 51 percent in 1998. The table also presents MAR closures between 91 to 100 days for both years. A comparison of time frames reveals that many determinations are made in the 10 days just following the 90-day deadline. As noted in the table, in 1996 there were 449 (43%) MAR dismissals during the 90-day period. There were slightly more MAR closures, 465 (45%), in the following 10 days. In 1998, the number of MAR dismissals made between 91 to 100 days was significantly reduced, to 21% of MAR closures. This suggests the agency has made improvements in meeting the statutory time frame. However, the number of MAR closures after 100 days indicates improvements are still needed. Regional differences. Committee staff also examined the data by regional office and found variations in the number of determinations in the two time frames. Table III-2 illustrates these differences for the MAR dismissals in 1996. As the table shows, each region issued approximately the same total number of MAR dismissals. However, regional differences appeared between the Bridgeport and Norwich offices compared to Hartford and Waterbury in terms of time frames. The data suggest both Bridgeport and Norwich had a disproportionate number of MAR dismissals in the 10 days following the 90-day time frame. In particular, Bridgeport made the vast majority of its MAR dismissals after the 90-day deadline. Staff examination of case processing time information for 1998 (Table III-3) revealed a marked improvement in timely MAR closures in Region 4 from 1996. Bridgeport also improved but continues to make more MAR dismissals in the 10 days following the MAR deadline. Without closer examination of the case files in those regions, it is difficult to determine the causes for regional differences. It may be a staff resource issue, experience or training, or the difficulty of cases. Nevertheless, regional differences are still evident. Enforcement staff views. The importance of intake and MAR is also appreciated by CHRO enforcement staff. Sixty percent of the enforcement staff responding to the program review survey stated the MAR process provides effective early case disposition. Forty percent said the MAR process helps control the case inventory. Twenty percent, though, felt MAR was unfair to those without legal representation. Much of the supplemental written commentary supplied by the enforcement staff in the program review survey also involved the intake and MAR phase. Many of the comments focused on MAR staff and competency: "Raise the bar on [staff] qualifications - especially for those individuals in the MAR unit...The MAR unit needs workers with legal analytical skills" "We must have a competent MAR staff" "More can be done at the intake phase to clearly establish the reasons a complainant believes illegal discrimination has occurred. In order for this to occur, the MAR unit must be comprised of competent individuals with strong interviewing, writing, and analytical skills" "More emphasis needs to be placed on the intake process - better quality staff - better trained staff - this affects the investigatory process ......" "The quality of the complaints taken at the intake stage needs to be improved, starting with the staff which is hired to work in this position. The same is true with respect to the MAR staff" The intake and MAR steps were also discussed at length at the program review focus group. One concern mentioned to committee staff by both complainant and respondent attorneys who attended was the inconsistency of the MAR decisions—both sides noted there was no predictability about the conclusion CHRO would reach in any given case. The critical nature of the MAR process was also recently examined by the Connecticut Superior Court in the summer of 1999. In Gilberto Torres v. Connecticut Commission on Human Rights and Opportunities, the court was asked to ruled on the constitutionality of the MAR process. Among the issues before the court in Torres were whether the MAR dismissal provisions of §46a-83 are unconstitutionally vague. The court found in favor of the commission in all issues holding that the MAR process is constitutional. Although the decision affirms the agency's authority and practice, program review staff believes the lawsuit highlights MAR significance to individuals' civil rights. As such, staff concludes CHRO should place more emphasis on this phase and ensure determinations being made at this level are completely sound and consistent. Given that most of the MAR process relies heavily upon filed documents, it is imperative that the quality of the paperwork and the substance of the underlying complaint are solid. Therefore, program review staff recommends CHRO re-evaluate its guidance documentation for investigators and maintain well-trained staff at the intake and MAR stage to ensure each case receives full and consistent assessment among all regions. MAR activities should be closely monitored to detect unintentional over- or underscreening of complaints and identify any problems in regional application of standards. The agency must also ensure commission members are kept informed of MAR activities on a periodic basis as prescribed by C.G.S §46a-83(b). (Additional recommendations affecting this area are presented in Section IV.) MAR reconsiderations. If a complainant does not accept the agency's decision for a MAR dismissal, he or she may file a request for reconsideration with CHRO within 15 days of its decision. The request along with the case file is sent to the Special Enforcement Unit (SEU) at CHRO. State law requires the agency to complete its reconsideration decision 90 days after the MAR decision is made. If SEU upholds the MAR dismissal, the complainant's only recourse is to appeal the administrative decision to court. If SEU agrees that the MAR decision should have been different, the case will automatically be retained for investigation. Requests for reconsiderations may also be filed after a full investigation. Committee staff examined reconsideration decisions from data taken from the agency's automated information system. In 1996, there were 303 reconsiderations filed; 205 were MAR reconsiderations. Eighty-four percent were denied. In 1998, the total number of reconsideration requests filed decreased to 177, including 111 MAR reconsiderations. Seventy percent were denied. Figure III-1 presents the agency's compliance with the 90 day reconsideration requirement for MAR dismissals. As the figure illustrates, CHRO completes a large number of reconsiderations within the 90 day period with a small number of decisions following in the next ten days. However, there are a significant number of MAR reconsiderations being made well after the 90 day statutory timeframe. This seems to have somewhat improved in 1998 where there are considerably fewer MAR reconsiderations decided after 180 days. Other early closures. In addition to MAR dismissals, complaints are closed in other ways early in the process. This means the number of complaints that actually get to the "full investigation" stage of CHRO’s enforcement process is significantly less than the number of complaints filed. In FY 1996, 48 percent (1,191 out of 2,493) of the cases filed were closed within 100 days of filing; in FY 1998, 37 percent (902 out of 2,457) of the cases filed were closed during that same time period. While about 70 percent of these early closures were MAR dismissals, the other types of early case closures include the following: No reasonable cause (NRC): At this early stage, this closure type means the case was not within CHRO’s jurisdiction. This fact was known either at intake or soon thereafter, but the case was still filed. Typically, the respondent in this situation will receive notice of the complaint but also will be advised by CHRO that no answer is required as the case will soon be closed; Withdrawn with settlement (WDWS): This closure type means the complainant has withdrawn the complaint, but there is a settlement between the two parties; Withdrawn: This closure means the complainant has withdrawn the complaint; Pre-determination conciliation (PDC): This is an agreement reached between the parties any time before the investigation deadline. The agreement must be acceptable to the CHRO investigator; and No fault agreement (NFA): This case disposition must occur before the respondent’s answer, and involves a written settlement agreement between the parties. Table III-4 displays the numbers of early non-MAR closures. In 1998, nine percent (78) of the cases resolved within the first 100 days were closed due to a no reasonable cause finding, compared to 11 percent in 1996. The closures that indicate some kind of settlement was made within the first 100 days consist of withdrawn with settlement, predetermination conciliation, and no fault agreement. In 1998, combining these closures results in 98 cases being closed by settling. This is 11 percent of all case closures in the first 100 days. For 1996, the portion was seven percent. Finally, four and five percent of the cases resolved in the first 100 days of 1998 and 1996 respectively were either withdrawn by the complainant or administratively dismissed. Complaint Investigations Committee staff focused on two areas with respect to post-MAR investigations: case processing timeliness and the use of mediation during the investigations process. Timeliness. Once a complaint has been merit-reviewed and retained, it is assigned to an investigator in the Full Investigations Unit.Since 1994, for cases retained after MAR, the "executive director or his designee shall determine the most appropriate method for processing any complaint pending [after MAR]..." C.G.S. Sec. 46a-83(c). The statutory possibilities are: 1) mandatory mediation sessions; 2) expedited or extended fact-finding conferences; 3) complete investigations; or 4) any combination of the above. The stated purpose of these methods is to: 1) find facts; 2) promote the voluntary resolution of complaints; or 3) determine if there is reasonable cause for believing that a discriminatory practice has been committed. Currently, the statutory deadline gives an investigator 190 days from the MAR decision to make the reasonable cause determination, or otherwise resolve the case. For the two years in which committee staff analyzed case outcomes and timeframes, FYs 1996 and 1998, the investigation deadlines were different. In FY 1996, the cause deadline was 270 days after complaint filing, with a possible 90 day extension. In FY 1998, the deadline was lengthened to 365 days, with a possible 180 day extension. Table III-5 shows the results of program review staff analysis of the investigatory closures occurring after 100 days from the complaint’s filing, using the applicable deadlines. The findings include: Release of jurisdiction. Another case disposition type is granting the complainant a release of jurisdiction, allowing for court action. The CHRO process provides an administrative remedy to discrimination complaints. Under state law, persons alleging employment discrimination must first exhaust the available administrative remedy before filing suit in court. The complainant and the respondent may jointly request the complainant get a release of jurisdiction to sue at any time from the filing of a complaint to 210 days after a complaint has been filed. The complainant may request a release if the complaint is still pending after 210 days from the complaint filing. Generally, the executive director must grant the release within 10 business days of receiving the request. In 1996 and 1998, approximately 200 requests were made each year for releases of jurisdiction. This accounts for less than ten percent of all closures. The program review examination of CHRO files found only a handful of cases where a release to sue was requested before the 210 day timeframe (10 in the two years). The majority of requests were filed after that time. Investigation and mediation. As noted earlier, since 1994, CHRO statutes have authorized the executive director or his designee to determine the most appropriate method for processing any complaint retained after MAR. The statutory possibilities include mandatory mediation sessions; fact-finding conferences; and complete investigations. The CHRO statutes have always contemplated both investigation and voluntary resolutions of complaints. Specifically, conciliation has long been a required step by the investigator after a reasonable cause finding. The concept of active investigator involvement in settlement attempts prior to a cause finding has evolved at CHRO. For example, beginning in 1989, CHRO statutes have authorized fact-finding conferences. One benefit of fact-finding conferences is they get the parties in the same room, which can be a first step toward settlement. The options of no fault and predetermination conciliation, described in regulation, also acknowledge the possibility of settlement. It wasn’t until 1994, though, that the term "mandatory mediation" was added to CHRO statutory authority during the investigative stage. The term "mediation" can refer to a spectrum of activities ranging from simply getting the two sides into one room to meeting with each side separately and confidentially, and proposing solutions. The "mandatory" in mandatory mediation refers to the requirement to attend the session; parties are not required to voluntarily settle. (It may be that mandatory mediation is used by some investigators as a procedural device to ensure the parties attend the fact-finding conferences. The statutes provide a penalty for respondents not attending mandatory mediation, unlike fact-finding conferences.) Program review staff tried to determine how often the mandatory mediation provision was used as opposed to a regular fact-finding conference. However, this was not possible given the inconsistent recording of activities in the automated case tracking system. Through interviews, committee staff is aware that its use is varied among investigators. Mediation has been defined as the "intervention of an acceptable, impartial, and neutral third party who has no authoritative decision-making power to assist contending parties in voluntarily reaching their own mutually acceptable settlements of issues in dispute". At CHRO, the investigator who is also the mediator clearly has "authoritative decision-making power"—he or she might ultimately be making a finding of reasonable cause. In fact, the statutes explicitly authorize the investigator to make such cause determinations. (C.G.S.§46a-83 (d)) As most CHRO investigations now consist of fact-finding conferences where all relevant parties are supposed to be in attendance, and the parties theoretically can hear what the respective positions are, it is easy to understand why, depending on the circumstances, the stage is set for CHRO staff to attempt assisting the parties to settle the case. Problems arises in two ways. First, mediation requires the parties to trust the mediator; in particular, the parties must trust that whatever they tell him or her will only be used to aid in mediation and will not be used against them elsewhere. Under current circumstances, if the mediation doesn’t work, the parties will have a CHRO investigator determining reasonable cause who was told things as a mediator that an investigator would not have been told or that the parties would not have conceded. Alternatively, the possibility exists for an investigator, acting in a mediation role, to convey to either of the parties even unwittingly the message that if a particular settlement isn’t reached, they may have regrets if a reasonable cause decision is made. The program review staff finds the use of mediation during the investigative, pre-reasonable cause stage is not well-defined in CHRO policy manuals or training and allows the same person with responsibility to determine cause to mediate. At minimum, mixing of investigator and mediator roles can create a perception of conflict for the parties. Conflict aside, because the two activities are so different (mediation and investigation), different skills and training are required. In other CHRO arenas, the processes are kept separate. At the public hearing level, mediation is separated from adjudication. If the parties express a desire to mediate to the presiding human rights referee, they work with a different hearing referee. CHRO’s legal office has a settlement unit, where specifically designated attorneys work on cases that are identified as possible candidates for settlement. If those efforts failed, other lawyers are appointed to represent CHRO at public hearing. Similarly, EEOC in the past few years has developed and offers as part of its complaint process a mediation track. A very important component of that program is that mediation is kept separate from any investigation procedures—the same EEOC staff assisting in mediation cannot be involved in any investigative parts. Finally, the use of mediation among the regions is different. Until 1998, the regions had MAR staff attempting mediation after MAR retention. Two regions told committee staff they stopped doing this last year because the time spent by the MAR person to mediate cut into the investigator deadline. However, another regional office indicated it still makes those attempts, with the MAR person having no more than 30 days to try to settle. The option of mediation clearly makes sense in any conflict resolution process. Early mediation efforts can be useful in certain kinds of CHRO cases, such as employment terminations where reinstatement is sought. Settlements aided by mediation avoid the escalating costs of continuing through the CHRO process. After a CHRO complaint is filed, the respondent’s answer preparation incurs a cost to the respondent, especially if it involves legal counsel. Assuming the case is retained after MAR, the fact-finding hearing can be costly when respondent personnel might have to appear, documentation produced, and legal counsel used. Finally, the next risk is whether a finding of probable cause will be made, which will trigger a public hearing consuming more time and resources for both sides. Therefore, early attempts at settlement can cut down on the costs to the parties. To the extent investigators are under pressure to resolve cases, that pressure alone could challenge their neutrality, regardless of their good faith. When discussing the idea of separating the two functions with CHRO staff, the response was that it wouldn’t be fair to give all the "easy" cases to some (cases to settle) and all the "hard" ones to others (cases that don’t settle). There is less of a concern when caseload and case closure numbers are not such a significant part of staff evaluations (discussed later in the report). If the cases were separated by difficulty, the cases that could get done would be completed early, the cases needing attention would receive it, and both the process and outcomes would be enhanced. Taking these points into consideration, program review staff recommends that CHRO separate the mediation and investigations components, and establish clear and consistent policies on mediation activities. The commission should incorporate these policies into the agency’s training curriculum. The new executive director reported to program review staff that she had planned to request additional investigator positions for the regional offices, but was thwarted for the moment due to the Office of Policy and Management hiring freeze. She wanted two new investigators per office, with one person doing strictly mediation and conciliation work. On promoting early mediation efforts, many forms used by CHRO reference opportunities for settlement. One of the initiatives CHRO management told program review staff about is the formation of a forms revision committee that is working on these forms to make the option of early mediation more noticeable. The attorney roundtable conducted by program review staff identified a seemingly small and easily remedied problem that could impede early settlement. The respondent lawyers often cannot tell if the complainant is represented by counsel. CHRO regulations indicate the sending of the notice of appearance form that each complainant’s lawyer fills out is the complainant’s responsibility, and this does not always happen. The respondent lawyers reported it is helpful to be able to talk to a complainant’s lawyer as soon as possible. Program review staff recommends CHRO make sure that respondents are informed when complainants are represented by counsel when the respondent is notified of the complaint. Reconsiderations after full investigation. As noted previously, state law allows a complainant to request reconsideration after a finding of no reasonable cause. CHRO has 90 days from the date of the cause finding to make its decision. If the reconsideration is granted, the case returns to the regional office. Otherwise, the case is closed. Program review staff examined the number of "no reasonable cause" reconsiderations granted and denied in 1996 and 1998 from the agency's automated system. Table III-6 compares "no reasonable cause" reconsideration timeframes for 1996 and 1998. CHRO does complete a significant percentage of reconsiderations within the 90-day statutory timeframe. However, the agency appeared to decide a larger percentage in 1996 than in 1998. It is also interesting to note that in 1996 the agency denied 84 percent of reconsideration requests while in 1998 the percentage has leaned slightly to granting reconsideration requests. It is unclear if this is because more errors are detected or the reconsideration review standard changed. CHRO has reported to committee staff that reconsiderations have been an issue. As described previously, all reconsiderations are handled by the Special Enforcement Unit in Central Office. This unit has recently undergone staffing changes and the function of reconsiderations will be moved to the commission counsel office. Human Rights Referees The addition of permanent full-time human rights referees is a recent change for the enforcement process. Created by P.A. 98-245, the seven referees are separate from the CHRO administrative structure. However, their role in the system significantly impacts the CHRO enforcement process. The enabling legislation outlined the terms and conditions for the referees' qualifications and compensation. The referees have the powers granted to hearing officers by statute. There is no mention in the statutes regarding operating policies and procedures for the referees. One of the underlying purposes in the creation of the Public Hearing Office was to control and eliminate the case backlog. Currently, the public hearing phase, unlike the other phases of the enforcement process, operates without statutorily imposed deadlines. Interviews with parties having experienced the public hearing process since the inception of the referees indicate that more structure is needed. In order for any organization to operate efficiently and effectively, there must be clear operating guidelines, procedures, and practices. This ensures that all parties fully understand the process and know what is expected of them. To be successful, any adopted policies and procedures must be well communicated and those implementing them must be uniformly trained. Therefore, the program review committee staff recommends the Chief Human Rights Referee establish uniform operating policies, procedures, and guidelines clearly defining the role and function of the Public Hearing Office. Adoption or any changes to the policies and procedures shall be duly communicated to the full Commission on Human Rights and Opportunities. It shall be the responsibility of the Chief Human Rights Referee to ensure all human rights referees are adequately trained in the uniform implementation of the policies and procedures. The CHRO administration and the Chief Human Rights Referee both acknowledge the need for clarification of roles and standardization. The agency has reported to committee staff that it intends to address this issue in its legislative proposals for the upcoming General Assembly session. User Satisfaction Survey One way to measure a system's use and effectiveness is to obtain input from the people who have experience with it. Currently, the only formal method for public opinion input regarding CHRO operations is through the commission meetings. The commission, at its discretion, may allow members of the public to voice their concerns. However, ongoing formal evaluation of the process by the parties actually using the system is not done. Committee staff believes routine assessment of the system by those who participate in and navigate through it is a good method of performance evaluation. An example of this type of assessment is the judicial evaluation process conducted by the Judicial Department, in which judges are evaluated by attorneys who practice before them and jurors who serve in trials they preside over. This idea was well received by the program review focus group of attorneys for both complainants and respondents. It was viewed as a good first step to ensuring parties’ concerns about the process are heard. An evaluation process would also help management identify potential problems and/ or inconsistencies found in the process agencywide as well as by region. Therefore, program review staff recommends CHRO institute a follow-up evaluation form for parties involved in the complaint process to provide feedback on their experience with the agency's handling of discrimination complaints. The process should offer the parties to the complaint a confidential forum to submit observations, suggestions, concerns, and comments directly to central office management. The information should be reviewed and summarized on a periodic basis and results shared with the regions and the commissioners. Section IV CHRO Management Many management functions support the discrimination complaint process. Among them are: staff performance standard setting and evaluation; staff development and training; agency policies and procedures documentation; regulation making; and management information system development. Committee staff believes internal supports in these areas are lacking. There appear to have been laudable efforts in the early to mid-1990s to try to establish consistent written policy and guidance materials, along with efforts to train staff. However, the drive behind these initiatives seemed to disappear, and implementation dwindled. As a result, the agency at the moment is left with unfinished guidance documents, out-of-date regulations, an overwhelming number of policy statements and forms (some used, some not), an inadequately implemented management information system, and haphazard professional development. In this section, committee staff discusses these areas, as well as the internal discrimination complaint process for CHRO current and former employees, and makes recommendations where appropriate. Staff Performance Standards and Evaluations The productivity of each enforcement worker impacts the agency's overall effectiveness. An increase in worker productivity may allow the agency to handle more cases and, conversely, a decrease in individual employee production may result in a reduction in the agency's ability to close cases. Many states, including Connecticut, have used production standards for its case processing enforcement staff. Production standards are commonly used by civil rights enforcement agencies around the country. In response to program review staff queries, California, Illinois, and New Jersey reported the use of staff production standards but would not release what they were. New Hampshire, Missouri, Alaska, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas each have production standards of four or five case closures per month. Higher standards exist in Wisconsin and Nevada, which required 12 and 15 closures per month, respectively. In contrast, Minnesota has recently abolished its production standards, previously requiring six closures per month or 75 annually. Michigan also reported recently abolishing production standards while Iowa, Ohio, and Michigan each reported not using them. The experiences in other states are offered for background purposes. Comparisons between production standards in other jurisdictions are difficult because of differences in intake procedures, requirements for closures, methods of counting cases, and other variations. The Connecticut Commission on Human Rights and Opportunities first instituted numerical standards for case production in 1977. It required six case closures per month for a total of 72 closures per year. This was reduced several years later to five case closures per month due to an increase in intake duties. This standard has been used as part of the employee's performance evaluation. The use of production standards has been recognized as an issue for some time. A 1988 Governor's Task Force Report on CHRO found the numerical performance standard affected the services provided by the agency. The task force concluded the numerical standard provided no incentive to an investigator to find cause, but rather the temptation to reduce the caseload by finding no cause, on the theory the latter was a faster disposition. The task force recommended CHRO examine the numerical performance standard and develop new guidelines for performance evaluations. Until recently, the use of production standards was still in effect. The issue of quotas was again listed as a CHRO staff concern in a 1999 independent consultant's report on the agency's operations. In that report, 15 percent of the staff interviewed identified the impact of the quota system on the quality of work as a concern. In the program review survey of the 32 enforcement staff, 60 percent of those responding believed the use of the staff production standards is unrealistic and unfair. Although committee staff does not have empirical evidence suggesting the production requirement influences the complaint disposition, it is reasonable to assume, as did the previous 1988 task force, that individuals being evaluated on the basis of such standards would feel pressure to meet them. Committee staff believes the use of a quantitative production standard for enforcement staff carries some risks. A numerical standard may encourage investigators to first focus on cases they can close quickly or easily. For example, in order to meet the monthly production standard, an investigator might select several simple cases rather than concentrating efforts on one complex case. Although all cases would eventually get investigated, the more difficult ones may be left to languish and deteriorate. Another possible unintended consequence of the production standard could be an adverse effect on the quality of case investigation. Of course, the production standard predated the statutory deadlines built into the complaint process. In light of time frame standards, production standards may be irrelevant. The current CHRO administration has told committee staff that production standards are no longer in use. At the committee’s public hearing, the CHRO executive director informed the committee that she had recently "spearheaded a committee comprised only of investigators to develop appropriate, non-numeric, performance criteria." Committee staff supports the discontinuation of evaluating staff performance on numerical standards. CHRO should establish performance standards reflecting the quality of the work and/or the difficulty of case as well as the effective management of caseloads such as regular and timely activity. A production standard can focus an enforcement worker's attention on one of the agency's primary goals -- closing cases in a timely manner -- and provide important incentives for enforcement staff to work as efficiently as possible. However, given its possible negative effect, committee staff believes the agency needs to look for other ways to increase production, including but not limited to, appropriate employee training, proper oversight on the part of managers, and, if necessary, shifting of resources in case processing. Staff Development and Training Another area committee staff explored was training and development opportunities for enforcement staff. At every stage of the complaint process, enforcement workers must deal with many difficult legal and technical issues with significant potential impact on an individual's civil rights. Successful case resolution is dependent to a large extent on the ability and resources of the worker. CHRO enforcement staff is almost evenly divided by background and years of experience. As Figure IV-1 shows, 12 of the current 32 enforcement workers (38 percent) have been with the agency more than 10 years. However, 17 (53 percent) have less than five years at CHRO, with nine hired within the last three years. Of the 32 enforcement investigators, 12 are attorneys. The most recent group of hires spent 2-3 weeks in orientation sessions taught by the former deputy director of enforcement. The sessions were based mainly on the agency policy manual. Workers then joined a regional office and commenced casework. Interviews and examination of agency materials indicate CHRO does not have a formal training curriculum for its enforcement workers. Program review staff requested information on the types of training either provided or paid for by the agency for current CHRO employees since 1995. Other than DAS training, which largely involves computers and general topics, the agency was not able to produce a comprehensive response about enforcement-related training. Instead, each staff person was asked to self-report on training received. The information received revealed staff attendance at different types and levels of training suggesting variable levels of skills and knowledge. Program review staff found training opportunities have varied for existing employees. The agency does not provide a formally structured training program or a cohesive training manual to its enforcement staff. In addition, CHRO has not conducted a formal training needs assessment for its staff. Committee staff believes that a lack of comprehensive core training and ongoing skills development may be one factor impeding the agency's effectiveness. All these factors point to a need for employee training and development, for both new and experienced staff. This is further evidenced by the results of the 1999 consultant report. Twenty percent of the staff mentioned a need for consistency across sites and training in new policies, procedures, and relevant laws. Twenty-nine percent desired clearer pathways for career and professional development. Furthermore, they indicated there are few incentives to pursue professional development and few opportunities to enhance performance on the job. The program review survey results amplify these findings. In the committee's questionnaire, investigative employees were asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed with various statements. Table IV-1 presents the results of responses relating to training. As the table indicates, two-thirds (66%) of those responding to the question disagreed that CHRO provides relevant training to its enforcement staff. Almost all of the workers disagreeing with the statement had more than five years of experience. It should be noted, however, 60 percent of the enforcement staff agreed their co-workers had the skills and abilities to their job (Table IV-2). Forty percent disagreed, with half strongly disagreeing. Committee staff compiled information about training opportunities and requirements for enforcement staff in other states. Of the 12 states surveyed in detail, four had training administrators or staff assigned to training and staff development. Almost all had core curricula developed internally and taught by in-house staff. However, the states offering formal mediation by agency staff seek training by outside specialists. Initial training for new enforcement staff ranged between one week to eight months with an average of two to three weeks. Investigation of discrimination charges is a difficult job requiring many skills. In addition, the field of civil rights law changes continually through both legislative and judicial activity. The agency also needs to be efficient, effective, and uniformly implement its policies and procedures to ensure every similarly situated person entering the system is treated the same. To accomplish this, CHRO must develop a formally structured training process to ensure enforcement staff uniformly understand and apply policies and procedures. It is important that both the amount of training as well as the types expand. In addition to basic CHRO policy and procedures, all levels of staff should be kept informed of new state and federal case law. Training should be relevant and tailored to the staff function. As such, training for intake and MAR workers would require a different focus than investigators or commission counsel staff, although all should have a basic level of knowledge of the overall process. Therefore, committee staff recommends CHRO conduct a formal evaluation of the current training curriculm and an assessment of training needs of the agency. Based on the evaluation, CHRO should develop and institute a comprehensive training and professional development program. This program should be designed to provide extensive training in civil rights law, investigative techniques, mediation, analytical methods, communication skills, and other necessary areas. It should be tailored to fit the needs of enforcement staff at each level of the process including, but not limited to, intake, merit assessment review, and investigation. Training should also be provided to staff involved in the public hearing process including, but not limited to, commission counsel and human rights referees. In addition, CHRO should conduct ongoing assessment of training needs of the agency's enforcement staff. The assessment results should be monitored and used to adjust the training curriculum and to identify areas for staff improvement whenever necessary. Policies, Procedures, and Regulations While state statute spells out many of CHRO’s authorities and responsibilities, like any agency, its regulations and internal policies and procedures are important to codify the detail of CHRO practice. Policies and procedures. In the early 1990s, CHRO management created two internal policy and procedure manuals for use by staff. One is called the "Investi-GATOR Policies, Practices & Forms Manual" (Investi-Gator) and the other is called the "Field Operation Interpretive Guidelines" (FOIG). It appears the original intent was to keep both manuals up to date. Some of the Investi-GATOR forms have been revised, but the FOIG manual updates are lacking. In part, the "Investi-GATOR" manual reflected the new mode of investigation the then-new executive director brought to CHRO in 1991. The manual combines policy directives, form letters for various participants in CHRO cases, as well as formatted blank report forms with which CHRO staff was supposed to use to arrive at their conclusions about cases. The manual is a significant effort to accomplish the four objectives identified in the manual: 1. "The policy directives are intended to unify the interpretation of statutes and regulations." 2. "By reducing the policies and instructions to writing, CHRO employees will have continued guidance and support while processing complaints. There will be no debate with respect to instructions which have been provided to staff in the event an issue arises regarding the propriety of the instructions." 3. "By creating standard procedures and documents, the time expended on processing and completing cases will be shortened." 4. "The documents contained in the manual will assist the agency in meeting the statutory nine (9) and twelve (12) month time frames." Committee staff observes the manual is quite voluminous and the combination of party form letters and other form material to be sent to parties blurs the impact of the staff guidance materials. Committee staff also finds there is very little guidance on mandatory mediation, how CHRO staff should handle the potential conflict of acting as both mediation and investigator, or on ways CHRO staff can encourage early settlement. Field Operations Interpretive Guidelines. Committee staff understands these guidelines are to be used by field staff as aids to understanding legal interpretations. First, many of the written interpretive guidelines are still in draft status even though they appear to have been developed years earlier. Second, the guidelines are quite formally written, with numerous legal citations, raising the question whether the style of presentation hinders their usefulness for investigators in the field. Program review staff is aware some forms are currently being revised for a variety of reasons. Committee staff recommends CHRO review both its Investi-GATOR manual and the Field Operations Interpretive Guidelines for ease of use by investigators in the regional offices, and ensure they represent current agency practice. Regulations. CHRO’s existing regulations were adopted in 1993. This is in spite of the significant 1994 statutory amendment establishing the early merit assessment review process that results in almost half of CHRO complaints being dismissed. The agency acknowledges its regulations are out of date. CHRO management told committee staff the position of legislative liaison/regulations specialist was vacant until recently filled. The individual is scheduled to begin in January 2000 and the first task will be to update the agency regulations. Committee staff supports this action. Management Information System Another important aspect in the effectiveness of CHRO is the ability of its information systems to adequately support its operations. Every year CHRO handles hundreds of cases, most of which pass through a multi-step process involving different commission staff. In addition, both statutes and administrative policy impose restrictions on the amount of time the agency can take at various stages of the process. Therefore, it is critical for CHRO staff have a reliable way to track the progress of each case. As part of its review, program review staff examined the CHRO management information system used for enforcement. Committee staff looked at statistical reports generated by the agency's case tracking system and interviewed CHRO personnel familiar with the program and involved with planning for future changes. In addition, through the process of analyzing CHRO case tracking data and extracting information from the system for the committee's own random case file review, program review staff also learned about the system's capabilities and limitations. The current management information system for enforcement has been in existence since 1993. It archives the agency's entire case inventory and is used to produce statistical monitoring reports and, when necessary, customized inquiries. Program review staff concludes the current information system could be a very useful management tool. It seems to have the ability to produce useful progress and analytical reports. However, committee staff finds the existing case tracking system has a number of deficiencies, including poor documentation and insufficient checks on data entry. Program review staff asked the agency to provide written documentation for the system users and was told no such documentation was available. CHRO produced a list of the database tables contained in the system and the information fields that make up each table, but it could not locate further written descriptions of the fields' contents or explanations for code definitions. The absence of documentation standardizing data input and methods for ensuring consistent code application became apparent in the program review staff's examination of the automated information. The committee staff's case file review revealed the system's codes are not mutually exclusive and do not always aptly describe the status or complaint outcomes. In addition, there is a fair amount of discretion in handling and coding the complaints by the regions. There appears to be no uniform policy on coding complaints. In many instances, the automated information does not make sense unless the paper file is examined. Given that the case tracking system is used in all the regions, committee staff finds the lack of documentation and uniform application hinders the agency from understanding the system's internal operations. Therefore, the program review committee staff recommends CHRO re-examine its coding system. Specific codes should be developed with input from system users. Written definitions for each code should be provided to agency staff and training given to implement a uniform coding system to facilitate tracking of complaint trends and outcomes. Periodic analysis of these codes will allow the agency to identify problem areas. It should also help the agency evaluate its enforcement action in response to complaints. Another identified deficiency was the accuracy of stored data. In reviewing the data extracted from the system for the committee's random case file review, program review staff detected examples of data entry errors such as implausible dates and incomplete or missing information. When asked about this issue, CHRO management stated that in the past maintaining the automated information system had become a lower priority as the regions were given more responsibilities and staff resources became engaged in other duties. In addition, managers were required by the former deputy director of enforcement to maintain manual tracking records of their inventory despite the existence of an automated system. Program review staff also looked at a number of the routine statistical reports produced by the automated system and found they provide somewhat limited information. Although the existing computer system does allow for some analysis, the deficiencies of the coding method limit its usefulness. Currently, the department does limited tracking of trends and presumably checking adherence to mandatory timeframes. However, given the lack of uniformity in present coding and inputting, program review staff concludes accurate tracking based on the automated system would be difficult. Therefore, program review staff recommends clear accountability should be assigned for assuring consistent, uniform, and accurate data recording. The purpose of a management information system is to produce essential information about organizational accomplishments in a readily useable format. MIS reports allow management to monitor the performance of the organization, evaluate any deviations from expected or desired results, identify necessary improvements, and implement corrective actions in a timely manner. The consequence of an ineffective MIS is that decision makers, at all levels, fail to receive an accurate understanding of program operations and the degree to which a program is meeting its intended goal. Specifically, ensuring timeliness of enforcement actions would be difficult. Committee staff believes CHRO could make better use of the data in its information system. The agency readily admits that its information system is somewhat problematic. Program review staff found that although the information system needs improvement, it contains the basic data needed to assess the performance of the department's case processing. As such, the agency needs to take full advantage of its current information system and re-examine its information system to better utilize its ability to monitor agency operations and quality assurance. Therefore, committee staff recommends CHRO establish a uniform, automated management information system for the regions that captures essential enforcement case information and results in the production of valid, reliable data. The system, at a minimum, should include, but not be limited to, the following: Legislative reporting. An improved management information system will enhance the information the legislature obtains about CHRO activities. At the outset of this report, committee staff noted the significant management changes that have recently occurred at CHRO. With these, committee staff expects past turmoil preventing CHRO from paying attention to its core business of handling discrimination complaints will cease. The timing of this study is such that information about the impact of recent legislative changes (e.g., full-time human rights referees and complainant’s right to seek release of jurisdiction after MAR dismissal), along with significant management changes, is impossible to measure. Because of past controversies, though, it is imperative that the legislature be kept fully informed about CHRO activities. In its annual report, CHRO reports on case closure types and numbers of complaints filed, but never reports on the time frames for casework. As of 1998, the legislature is requiring CHRO to annually report to it about the number of cases not meeting the statutory deadlines, and the reasons for those failures. There are other performance indicators that would allow the legislature to review the impact of CHRO. These include: the number of cases where there are job reinstatements; the number of cases in which backpay was awarded; and other types of "affirmative action" allowable under the enforcement remedy statutes. In addition, even though much of the public hearing process is not subject to statutory deadlines, it is important for the legislature to know the length of time cases are pending at the public hearing stage. CHRO should develop a set of performance measures to be used in evaluating the agency’s overall performance as well as all key components and phases of the process. At a minimum those standards shall address: Technological Resources The need for technological improvements was reiterated in the 1999 consultant report where 19 percent of the staff cited inadequate equipment (computers) as a staff concern. The consultant report also indicated staff desire for updating, standardization, and equitable distribution of computer hardware and software. The current administration has stated technology is one of its top priorities. Plans for technological improvements have been forestalled due to problems with wiring in some regional office locations. Nevertheless, the agency is expecting to resolve these issues and eventually provide each enforcement worker access to more computerized technology and research tools such as Westlaw and the Internet. Program review staff supports these plans and recommends CHRO continue to assess its technological resources and equipment needs for its enforcement operations and develop a plan for addressing those needs as determined. The plan should aim to enhance accurate information sharing between field operations, the legal services unit, and the public hearing office. The agency’s limited technological resources can have a negative impact. The daily operation of the organization can be compromised by insufficient and outdated technology. Enforcement staff need a method to track their caseloads. It is also helpful to have information readily available when parties call regarding the status of a case. Perhaps most important, managers need reliable statistics about the region's inventory of cases and its productivity in order to detect problems and make necessary changes. Finally, the commission administration should have access to this information to support quality assurance. Management and Regional Operations Before any new policies can be successfully implemented, a strong communications network needs to be in place. Both the consultant's report and the program review staff survey found that CHRO employees have a somewhat unfavorable view of how information is communicated to staff. One program review survey question asked enforcement workers to rate communication in the agency. The results are presented in Table IV-3. As the results show, the staff generally view communications somewhat unfavorably. The consultant report also suggested this finding. The number one concern regarding management identified by staff was inadequate communication, few staff meetings, and not being informed by management. It is important to note that the report was prepared at the beginning of the current administration and reflected the previous management. It does, however, suggest the need for enhanced communications. Improved communication was also the number one desired changed by staff for the new management in the consultant's report. The consultant's report made a number of recommendations aimed at developing an effective infrastructure for organizational communication and dialogue including regular staff meetings for all work groups and quarterly meetings for the entire organization. The new administration has begun to institute these recommendations including the agencywide staff meetings. In addition, the newly appointed Chief of Field Operations, who works out of the central office in Hartford, has been directed by the executive director to visit each regional office once a month (one regional office a week). Also, the chief is to hold regional manager meetings once a month, which will rotate among the regional offices. Program review staff believes these are positive steps to improve communications among all staff. The executive director should continue to aggressively establish an effective communication network between and among all levels within the commission. Staff Complaint Process One issue raised during the study relates to employment discrimination complaints made by CHRO employees. In part, the existence of any charges of employment discrimination at CHRO, due to the anti-discrimination purpose of the agency, seems incongruous to some. Another issue is whether CHRO employees have a reasonable process by which to exercise their rights to bring discrimination complaints if they feel they have been wronged. Program review staff obtained information about how many complaints have actually been filed by CHRO employees (current or former) since 1990. Twelve former or current CHRO employees filed CHRO complaints against the agency in that time period. Table IV-4 shows the years in which complaints were made. Five complaints were closed with a finding of no reasonable cause. One was closed after the MAR review with a finding of no claim. Two were closed through administrative dismissal. Three were closed with a right to sue determination. One was withdrawn with a settlement. Five of the CHRO complaints became the subject of federal lawsuits, with the earliest filed in 1997 and the most recent in January 1999. Four of these suits are pending. One was settled for the amount of $105,000. At minimum, the existence of discrimination charges at CHRO, as at any workplace, is evidence of conflict that for some reason could not be resolved through less formal methods. As such, it denotes a problem for management, if not of management. The fact that at least one of these complaints, filed originally in 1993, resulted in the state paying a significant settlement amount, is noteworthy. Also, the circumstance surrounding one of the complaints is notable. The complaint, now pending in federal court, was brought by an individual who supervised at least one of the people named as respondents in the complaint. The fact that former CHRO management allowed this conflict to continue is remarkable. Eleven of the twelve complaints mentioned above occurred under previous CHRO management and there is no reason to attribute any past missteps to the new management at CHRO. It is instructive that the one CHRO complaint filed by a CHRO employee just days after the new director started in her acting capacity in March 1999 has already been withdrawn and settled. CHRO employees have a process available to make discrimination complaints. In May 1997, a policy directive was issued setting out that process. It provided that, to comply with the CHRO/EEOC workshare agreement, any complaint filed by a CHRO employee would be deferred to EEOC for initial processing. As the directive stated, the purpose of the policy was to "eliminate or at least minimize any possibility of a conflict of interest, real or perceived, when a complaint…is filed….alleging employment discrimination by the Commissioners, Executive Staff or employees of the commission." Current CHRO management has told committee staff that the policy has changed and been communicated to staff that the employee also now has the option to have EEOC or CHRO investigate the complaint. Committee staff contacted other states’ civil rights agencies to find out how they handle complaints filed by their own staff against them. In some states, the complaints are handled like any other complaint; in others, they are deferred to EEOC; and in others still, an outside party handles them. In 1976, CHRO asked the Office of Attorney General for an opinion on whether CHRO could process a complaint filed against it by a CHRO employee charging a violation of state law. The OAG said that because CHRO was the only agency with authority to handle the complaint, under the necessity of law concept, it had to handle the complaint. With respect to the procedure, the OAG thought there was a way to do it impartially. First, it noted that the commission members or its executive staff would not have any dealings with the substance of the claim because "investigation of the complaint, determination of probable cause and conciliation endeavors are within the exclusive province of the investigator." The investigator assigned should have no connection to the complaint. If the matter proceeded on to the public hearing stage, the OAG said the commission chair "should exercise his ministerial duty of appointing a hearing examiner to hear and decide the case." Because the hearing officer was a gubernatorial appointment, there was no concern about commission interference, because he had sole authority to decide the issues and order relief. Finally, the attorney general would assign an assistant attorney general who had never represented the commission or the Department of Administrative Services before to "present the case in support of the complaint." Assistant attorneys general who normally represent the commission will defend the commission. "The representation of state officials or agencies on opposite sides of a case by the Attorney General is not without precedent." It is not clear to program review staff that the current CHRO complaint process for CHRO employees filing complaints is a genuine problem. It is true, as the 1976 attorney general opinion points out, that the CHRO investigators have significant autonomy, and as long as the investigator has no connection to the complaint, or complainant, there should be no overwhelming conflict. Any employee who files a discrimination complaint against his or her employer is in an automatic position of conflict at the workplace, so CHRO employees are not unique in that regard. Theoretically, CHRO management should know better than any employer the consequences for retaliating for filing a complaint, itself a violation of law. The commission might consider giving employees the option of the right of first refusal for the investigator selected. Employee morale. An issue related to the internal CHRO discrimination complaint process is general employee morale. In the program review survey of enforcement workers, conducted in October 1999, respondents were asked to rate their level of satisfaction with various aspects of employment at the commission. The results are shown in Table IV-5. Although a majority of those responding were satisfied with both the general work environment and their job overall, one-fifth to a quarter of those responding counted themselves as dissatisfied. This is slightly less than the 31 percent of persons interviewed by the consultants who conducted the 1999 organizational assessment for CHRO, who noted concern about decreasing morale at the agency. Those interviews were done in December 1998. The agency has begun some initiatives to improve the overall work environment such as holding regular agencywide meetings and instituting monthly labor-management meetings. Although it is too soon to tell whether particular initiatives will succeed, program review staff gives the current administration credit for recognizing some deficiencies and refocusing attention on them. Resources In the briefing report, committee staff provided information regarding staffing trends at CHRO since FY90. Committee staff analysis found the level of enforcement staff has remained essentially the same although the volume of complaints coming into the agency during this same time period grew significantly. In her public hearing testimony before the program review committee, the current executive director stated her intention to seek additional investigators within each region to better manage the growing case inventory and ensure that statutory case processing time frames would not be exceeded. However, she could not proceed with the plan because of the hiring freeze imposed by the Office of Policy and Management. The agency is currently working on a projected needs assessment on enforcement staff resources. The agency's assessment is based on information in the automated tracking system, subjective data, and the assumption the MAR process remains unchanged. The executive director reported to committee staff that she would like to add two new investigators per regional office, with one person assigned strictly to mediation and conciliation. In addition, she stated her desire to augment intake. These plans coincide with many of the program review conclusions and recommendations. Committee staff would add that re-examination and re-vamping of the automated tracking system may change the projections of staffing needs and reiterate the importance of enhancing the intake and MAR stages as well as expedited handling of reconsiderations. Therefore, program review staff defers to the agency's management on how to best allocate its resources and recommends CHRO proceed with its plan to request additional staff resources. APPENDIX A LEGISLATIVE PROGRAM REVIEW SURVEY OF CHRO ENFORCEMENT STAFF Please indicate your length of service with CHRO: 21%< 5 yrs 29% 5-10 yrs 50%10+ yrs Your current position is: 60%HRO representative 40% Asst. Comm Counsel 1 --% Other How satisfied or dissatisfied are you with each area below? (Please circle.) Please tell us to what extent do you agree or disagree with the following statements: How would you rate the overall quality of communication: - between the central office and your regional office? --% Excellent 13% Good 40% Fair 47%Poor - among the regional offices? --% Excellent 20% Good 27% Fair 53%Poor - within your regional office? 13% Excellent 47% Good 20% Fair 20%Poor - between the Office of Commission Counsel and your regional office? --% Excellent 7% Good 27% Fair 67%Poor Please read and complete the following statements: (Check all that apply) The MAR process: 60%provides effective early case disposition 40%is unfair to inarticulate complainants 20%is unfair to those without legal representation 40%helps control the case inventory OTHER:________________________________________________________ The use of staff production standards: 60%is unrealistic and unfair 13%is a good evaluation measure 40%compromises the quality of work 20%is not a problem OTHER:________________________________________________________ The CHRO complaint process: 7%favors the complainant --%favors the respondent 80%is fair to both parties 7%is unfair to both parties OTHER:________________________________________________________ APPENDIX B Other States Civil Rights Enforcement Nearly all states have fair employment practices laws, sometimes designated as human rights laws. Most of these jurisdictions have established agencies to investigate charges of discrimination and to enforce the fair employment practices (FEP) laws. State agencies with enforcement standards comparable to EEOC are deferred to by the federal agency for initial processing of all charges within their jurisdiction. State laws frequently extend farther than federal civil rights statutes. Consequently, employers can find themselves bound by the more comprehensive requirements of state and local laws as well as by the broad ban against discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, age, national origin, citizenship status, and handicap required by federal provisions. In addition, to being more comprehensive, state laws often extend to smaller employers. While federal law applies mainly to employers with 15 or more employees, some state statutes cover employees with only one. Other states make no provision for minimum number of employees needed to determine coverage. The following is a synopsis of the 12 states. CALIFORNIA FEP Law. The California Fair Employment and Housing Act prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, religion, color, age, national origin, ancestry, physical disability, mental disability, medical condition, marital status, or sex. Coverage. The act applies to employers with five or more workers, their agents, the state, or any of its political or civil subdivisions and cities. Employment agencies and labor organizations are also covered. An exception is made to the protection afforded to individuals with mental disabilities which only applies to employers with 15 or more employees. Structure. Violations of the employment antidiscrimination law is handled by the Department of Fair Employment and Housing within the State and Consumer Services Agency. The department is administratively handled by an executive director appointed by governor subject to confirmation by the senate. The agency also works with a commission of seven members appointed by governor with advice and consent of senate. Commission members serve terms of four years. The commission chairperson is chosen by governor. The commission members receive $100 per diem and are entitled to expenses actually and necessarily incurred in performance of their duties. Process. Complainants have one year from the date of the alleged unlawful practice in which to file a complaint with the commission. The filing time can be extended up to 90 days if the complainant did not become aware of the discrimination until after the year expired. The department investigates the complaint and endeavors to eliminate discrimination by conciliation. If a complaint is not conciliated, the department must issue a written accusation within one year of the filing of the complaint and within two years of the filing of a complaint claiming unlawful practices against a class of persons. The department must issue an accusation or notify the complainant within 150 days of the filing of the complaint of the right to request a right to sue notice and must issue such notice no later than one year after the filing of the complaint. If the accusation includes a request for a remedy for emotional injuries, or for administrative fines or both, the respondent may elect to transfer the proceedings to a court by serving a written notice on the department, which must, within 30 days dismiss the accusation and file an action in court on behalf of the complainant. The commission shall hold hearings on accusations issued and determines the issues raised therein. Hearings take place not more than 90 days after issuance of accusation upon which they are based. The case is presented before commission by an attorney of department. A hearing officer appointed by commission presides unless a quorum of commission decides to hear. Within 60 days after case is submitted the hearing officer prepares a decision served on commission and all other parties. The proposed decision is deemed adopted by commission 100 days after service to commission by hearing officer unless within that time the commission rejects or amends it. Reconsideration by any party is allowed within 20 days of the date a decision is mailed. Reconsideration may be assigned back to hearing officer for further evidence. The commission may order the respondent to stop the discriminatory practice and order other appropriate relief such as: hiring or reinstatement with or without back pay; payment for actual damages sustained proven by a preponderance of the evidence, including for emotional pain and suffering, but such nonpecuniary damages together with any administrative fines assessed against a respondent must not exceed $50,000 per complainant; prospective relief to prevent the reoccurrence of unlawful practice; or reporting of the manner of compliance. The commission has no authority to award punitive damages. In addition, if the respondent is guilty of fraud or malice, the commission may order the payment of administrative fines which are deposited into the general fund. Within one year of effective date of every final order or decision issued, the department shall conduct compliance review to determine whether order or decision has been fully obeyed and implemented. FLORIDA FEP Law. The Florida Civil Human Rights Act prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, handicap, or martial status. Coverage. The law covers employers of 15 or more employees, employment agencies, and labor organizations. Structure. The Florida Commission on Human Relations is comprised of 12 members appointed by the governor subject to confirmation by the senate. The commission selects its own chairperson. Appointments to the commission must be broad representation of various racial, religious, ethnic, social, economic, political, and professional groups within the state. At least one member of the commission must be 60 years of age or older. Members serve four year terms and are compensated $50 per day. The commission appoints and removes the executive director. Process. A complaint may be filed at any time within 180 days of the occurrence of the alleged unlawful employment practice. When it is determined that a complaint has been timely filed, the executive director shall provide notice and copy of complaint to the respondent within 15 days of the complaint filing. Unless complaint is settled or withdrawn, the complaint is assigned to the investigation unit. During the course of the investigation, the unit may request of any person information concerning the facts and circumstances of the complaint. In the event any person fails to provide requested information, the executive director may issue and sign a subpoena on behalf of the commission. During the investigation, the investigator shall encourage the complainant and the respondent to settle the complaint on mutually agreeable terms. If the complaint is not settled nor withdrawn at the end of the investigation, the investigator shall prepare an investigation report and recommendation for the Office of General Counsel. The Office of General Counsel reviews the report and makes a recommendation to the executive director as to whether there is reasonable cause to believe that an unlawful employment practice has occurred. The executive director makes a determination and serve notice of such determination to complainant and respondent. Redetermination is available within 20 days. After a notice of determination of reasonable cause is found, the parties are invited to participate in conciliation. If a conciliation agreement is not made within 30 days, the complainant may file a Petition for Relief. Each respondent must file an answer with the commission within 20 days of service of the petition. The answer must include a specific, detailed statement of any affirmative defenses. Failure to plead an affirmative defense constitutes a waiver of that defense. If the respondent fails to file a timely answer, such failure shall be deemed to constitute an admission of the material facts alleged in the petition. A copy of the petition is served upon all commissioners. Upon consideration of a recommended order, the commission may order that the petition and complaint be dismissed or may determine that an unlawful employment practice has occurred. The commission may issue an order prohibiting the practice and provide relief from the effects of the practice. The order of the commission shall constitute final agency action. ILLINOIS FEP Law. The Illinois Human Rights Law prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, citizenship status, ancestry, age, sex (including sexual harassment), martial status, a determinable physical or mental handicap, military status, and unfavorable discharge from military service. It is also violation for employers, employment agencies, or labor organizations to inquire into or use an expunged, sealed, or impounded arrest or criminal record as basis to refuse to hire, segregate, or act with respect to recruitment, hiring, promotion, renewal or employment, discharge, discipline, terms, privileges, or conditions of employment. Coverage. The law applies to private employers of 15 or more employees. However, antidiscrimination laws relating to handicap or sexual harassment applies to employers with one or more employees. The state, its subdivisions, employment agencies, labor organizations, and apprenticeship and training programs are also covered. The law also applies to an employer that is a party to public contract without regard to number of employees. Structure. The Human Rights Commission consists of 13 members and appointed by the governor with advice and consent of senate. No more than 7 members shall be of the same political party. The governor designates the chairperson. The members serve staggered terms of four years. The executive director is also appointed by the governor with the advice and consent of the senate. Process. A charge should be filed with the Department of Human Rights as soon as possible after the act of discrimination occurs. A charge must be filed within 180 days of the date the discrimination took place. A charge may be initiated by writing, phoning, or visiting the department office. An intake investigator will interview the complainant and draft a charge which must be signed and notarized. A copy of the charge is sent to the respondent within 10 days. A verified response must be filed with the department within 60 days by the respondent. Failure to do so may result in default findings in favor of the complainant. An investigator will be assigned to investigate the charge. A fact-finding conference will be held to gather pertinent data from the parties. Following investigation staff will make a recommendation as to whether there is substantial evidence of discrimination. If the department does not find substantial evidence of discrimination, it will dismiss the charge. The complainant may appeal the department's dismissal to the chief legal counsel. The appeal must be filed within 30 days of the date of the dismissal of the charge. If a settlement agreement is not reached, the department will file a complaint of civil rights violation the Human Rights Commission. If the department does not issue a complaint or a notice of dismissal with 365 days after the filed date of charge, the complainant has 30 days to file a complaint at the Human Rights Commission. After a complaint is filed with the commission, it is assigned to an administrative law judge who sets a date for a public hearing. At this stage, the parties are encouraged to retain attorneys to represent them. Following the public hearing the administrative law judge recommends a finding to a three-member panel of commissioners. If the recommended findings favor the respondent, the commission will decide whether to dismiss the complaint. If the decision favors the complainant, specific relief may be recommended. The commission may order the respondent to cease and desist, to pay actual damages, to hire, reinstate, promote, to back pay, attorney fees and costs, in order to remedy the discriminatory action. Appeals of the commission's order must be made within 35 days of the order. Appeals are made to Illinois Appellate Court. IOWA FEP Law. The Iowa Civil Rights Act prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of age, race, creed, color, sex, national origin, religion, or disability. Coverage. The law applies to all employers employing workers in the state of Iowa, including the state, its political subdivisions, employment agencies, and labor organizations. Structure. The Iowa State Civil Rights Commission consists of seven members appointed by the governor subject to confirmation by the senate. Appointments to the commission must provide geographical area representation insofar as practical. The commission is paid on a per diem basis. The governor, subject to senate confirmation, appoints the agency director. Process. Complaints must be filed within 180 days of the last alleged discriminatory incident. When a signed and notarized complaint is received, it is reviewed by agency staff to determine whether it meets the statutory requirements. The complaint does not meet the statutory requirements if it is not timely filed or the commission does not have jurisdiction. If these criteria are not met, the complainant is notified and the complaint closed. If the complaint does meet the statutory requirements, a copy is mailed to complainant and served on the respondent. Both complainant and respondent are required to answer a questionnaire and submit relevant documents within 30 days. When the commission receives both parties' responses to the questionnaires, all the collected information is reviewed to determine whether further investigation is warranted. If the further investigation is not warranted, the complaint is administratively closed. The complainant has appeal rights. If further investigation is warranted, the complaint will be assigned to an investigator. After the complaint has been on file with the commission for sixty days, the complainant may request a right to sue letter which, if granted, would allow the complainant to file a lawsuit in district court alleging a violation of Illinois law. At any time during the process, the parties may decide to settle the complaint through a voluntary, no fault mediation process. During investigation, each party is usually interviewed and additional records are collected. Witnesses are contacted and interviewed. When the investigation is complete, the investigator will analyze all of the collected information and recommend to the administrative law judge whether probable cause or no probable cause exists to believe that discrimination occurred. If the administrative law judge finds no probable cause, the complaint is closed. A no probable cause finding cuts off the complainant's right to sue. If the judge finds probable cause, the complaint is assigned to a conciliator who will contact the parties and attempt to conciliate or settle the complaint. If conciliation fails, the complaint will be reviewed to determine whether it should proceed to public hearing. If selected for hearing, a hearing is held in accordance to Iowa APA rules. If not selected for hearing, the complaint will be administratively closed and the complainant may request a right o sue letter. MASSACHUSETTS FEP Law. The Massachusetts Fair Employment Practice Act prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, religious creed, national origin, age, sex including sexual harassment, sexual orientation, ancestry, or physical or mental handicap. Coverage. FEPA applies to employers of 6 or more employers, the state and all of its political subdivision employment agencies and labor organizations. Structure. The Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination consists of three full-time commissioners appointed by the governor serving three-year overlapping terms. The governor appoints the chairperson. The commission may appoint such attorney, clerks, and other employees and agents as it may deem necessary to fulfill their duties. Process. Complaints of employment bias must be filed with the Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination within six months of the alleged act of discrimination. After the filing of any complaint the chairman of the commission shall designate one of the commissioners to make with the assistance of the commissions staff prompt investigation. Commission staff members initially review all complaints to decide whether to dismiss or process them. If processing is authorized, the investigating commissioner must begin a formal investigation of the complaint within 30 days after the authorization and complete the investigation within 18 months. After the authorization of a formal investigation, if both parties are represented by counsel, the investigating commissioner may order the parties to conduct discovery into the allegation of the complaint and the respondent defenses to determine whether probable cause exists. If no probable cause exists, the commissioner will within 10 days provide written notice. Within 10 days of service, the complainant may submit written request of preliminary hearing before commission to determine probable cause. The commission must allow this as matter of right. If probable cause is found, immediate notice to parties to elect judicial determination. Parties must give written notice to agency within 20 days. If notice is received, the commission dismisses the complaint and it is given to the attorney general to commence civil action on behalf of the complainant. If probable cause is found but the parties do not elect to judicial review, the commission endeavors to eliminate by conference, conciliation, persuasion. If this fails then a hearing is held. The case is presented before the commission by agency attorney. The investigating commissioner is not involved in hearing or else it is held by hearing officer appointed by commission. Any party aggrieved by final decision of hearing commissioner or officer may, within 10 days of receipt of decision, submit written request of review to the commission. Within the first 90 days after the filing of a complaint, a complainant may make a written request to the investigating commissioner for permission to transfer the complaint to state court. But if the complaint has been pending before the commission for more than 90 days, the complainant can file a state court complaint without permission after filing a notice with the investigating commissioner and requesting that the commission not initiate its own complaint in the matter. The commission must make written findings of its investigation and if it finds that discrimination has occurred it must try to eliminate the unlawful practices through conference, conciliation, and persuasion. If conciliation fails, the commission conducts a public hearing and issues a written order. The order may be appealed to the full commission. The parties may obtain judicial review of a final commission order or seek enforcement of such an order. Commission may issue an order to the respondent to stop the discriminatory conduct; order other affirmative relief such as hiring reinstatement, or upgrading of employees, with or without back pay, and order the payment of reasonable costs and attorney's fees. MICHIGAN FEP Law. The Michigan Civil Rights Act prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of religion, race, color, national origin, age, sex, height, weight, familial status, or martial status. Coverage. The law applies to employers of one or more employees, employment agencies, labor organizations, and apprenticeship and training programs. However, it does not apply to employment of individuals by their parents, spouses, or child. Structure. In Michigan, the Civil Rights Commission was created by the state constitution. The commission establishes policy and appoints the director for the Department of Civil Rights. The commission also acts as the final arbiter in contested cases filed with the department. There are eight commissioners, no more than four from the same political party, appointed by the governor for four-year terms. Process. Complaints must be filed with the Michigan Department of Civil Rights within 180 days following the alleged act of discrimination. Complaints may be filed in state court without first filing with the Michigan Department of Civil Rights. When a complaint is filed, a right specialist conducts a detailed interview with the complainant to decide whether the situation meets the jurisdictional requirements defined by law. If the complaint falls within the department's jurisdiction, a formal complaint is drafted. A copy of the complaint is sent to the party against whom the complaint is made. The complaint is assigned o a field representative for investigation. The respondent and the claimant may be invited to an investigative/resolution conference. This meeting provides an opportunity to explore the possibility of an early settlement agreeable to both parties and if unresolved a forum to clarify issues and receive evidence from the parties. If the matter is not resolved at this conference, additional investigation may occur including the examination of witnesses and documents that were not available prior to or during the conference. A staff determination is made, on the basis of the investigation, whether there is sufficient evidence to credit the claimant's allegations. If there is not sufficient, the complaint is dismissed. Following such a dismissal, a claimant may petition for reconsideration of the decision and may be granted a hearing to offer proofs why the decision should be changed. If sufficient grounds have been found, after investigation, to credit the claimant's allegations, the respondent is invited to a conciliation conference, where an attempt is made in private discussion to adjust the matter. If the efforts in conciliation are successful, the case is closed as adjusted, and the claimant and respondent are so notified. If conciliation efforts are not successful, the department may issues a formal charge, requiring an answer from the respondent, and set a date for a formal public hearing. The hearing is conducted by one or more civil rights commissioners, or a referee. All witnesses testify under oath, the rules of evidence apply, and all parties have the right to examine and cross examine the witnesses. The burden of proof is on the department and the claimant. Following the hearing and receipt f the referee's report, an appropriate order is issued by the commission either dismissing the complaint or directing that remedial action be taken by the respondent. A claimant or respondent who does not agree with any final order of the commission may appeal to courts for review of the case. MINNESOTA FEP Law. The Minnesota Human Rights Act prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, martial status, status with regard to public assistance, membership or activity in a local commission, disability, sexual orientation, or age. Coverage. The law applies to employers of one or more employees including the state, its subdivisions, and employment agencies and labor organizations. Structure. The Department of Human Rights is under the direction and supervision of a commissioner who is appointed by the governor. The commissioner may appoint an advisory task force if so desired. Process. A charge must be filed within one year of an alleged unfair discriminatory practice. A copy of the charge and initial information request is served upon the respondent within ten days of complaint filing. The respondent has 20 days within which to answer the charge in writing. The agency may investigate the complaint by interviewing the witnesses, reviewing documents, requesting further information, and statistical analysis. The enforcement officer may also call a fact finding conference to obtain information needed to investigate an allegation. At the conference, the parties may attempt to resolve the proceedings before a determination is made. Once investigation is completed, the enforcement officer makes a recommended determination which is reviewed by a supervisor. The decision is sent to both parties whom can each request reconsideration with ten days. If probable cause is found, the department attempts conciliation. If conciliation attempts fail, the agency issues a formal complaint. The attorney general prepares the case for litigation and a hearing is conducted before an administrative law judge. The administrative law judge decides the case by issuing an order supported by written findings of fact and conclusion law. The order shall be final decision of department and may be appealed in court. NEW JERSEY FEP Law. The New Jersey Law Against Discrimination prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry, age, martial status, affectual or sexual orientation, sex, atypical hereditary cellular or blood trait, genetic information, refusal to submit to a genetic test or to make available the results to employer, or liability for service in the Armed Forces. Handicap discrimination is also prohibited unless the handicap reasonably precludes performance of a particular job. The law also prohibits discrimination on familial status which is defined broadly to include many types of parental relationship. Affectional or sexual orientation is defined as "male or female heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality by inclination, practice, identity, or expression. Atypical hereditary or blood trait means traits for sickle cell, hemoglobin C, thalassemia, Tay-Sachs, or cystic fibrosis. Coverage. The law applies to private employers, the state, its political subdivision, all public officers, agencies and boards as well as employment agencies and labor organizations. Structure. The Division of Civil Rights is housed within the New Jersey Department of Law and Public Safety. The division consists of the Attorney General and a commission of seven members appointed by the governor with the advice and consent of the senate. The commission members serve five year terms and are eligible for reimbursement for their expenses. The Attorney General appoints the division director subject to the approval of the commission and the governor. Process. Once a complaint is accepted at the regional office,, or the complainant may choose to litigate personally or through private counsel. If a finding of no probable cause is issued, the case is closed without further proceedings by the division. If the director has not made a probable cause determination within 180 days of the filing of the complaint, the complainant may request to litigate the case at the Office of Administrative Law either personally or through private counsel (but not through a deputy attorney general) responding party. Alternatively, an aggrieved party may file a complaint in New Jersey Superior Court within two years of the alleged violation. NEW YORK FEP Law. The New York Human Rights Law prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of age, race, creed, color, national origin, sex, disability, genetic predisposition or carrier status, or martial status. Coverage. The law applies to employers of four or more employees, employment agencies, labor organizations, licensing agencies, and apprenticeship programs. Structure. The Division of Human Rights is located within the executive department. It is headed by a commissioner appointed by the governor with the advice and consent of the senate. The commissioner holds office at the pleasure of the governor. Process. If an individual feels he or she has been the victim of an illegal act of discrimination, he or she may file a complaint within one year of the date of the violation at any regional office. After contacting the regional office, and the Division's jurisdiction is established over the particulars of a given situation, the compliant can be taken either in person at the office or by telephone. In some cases, complaints may be taken by mail. In any event, the complainant will communicate with the investigator to give a summary of the specific acts of alleged unlawful discrimination. If the complaint falls within the division's jurisdiction, the investigator assists an individual in filing a formal complaint based on the information provided. The complaint is then mailed to the individual or organization charged with committing the discriminatory act, who is then asked to respond to the allegations. Depending upon the respondent's answer, the investigator may advise whether there is reasonable basis for conciliation. The conciliation process is negotiated by the investigator, who identifies the main issues of the complaint, determines where the complainant and respondent agree and disagree, identifies what may be offered and what may be accepted, and develops an appropriate strategy for resolving the dispute. If the complaint is not resolved at the conciliation level, or if one or both of the parties are not interested in attempting conciliation, the investigator begins a further investigation of the facts which may include, but are not limited to two party conferences, witness interviews, site visits, interrogatories and document requests. As the investigation proceeds, the investigator continues to attempt to settle the case through conciliation efforts. Depending upon the information gathered during the investigation, the regional director reviews the investigator's work, and a determination of probable cause or no probable cause to believe that illegal discrimination has taken place is issued. If the determination is no probable cause, the complaint is dismissed, but the complainant has the right to appeal the determination to the state supreme court within 60 days. If probable cause determination is issued, the complainant and the respondent meet with an administrative law judge in a pre-hearing conference to once again attempt to conciliate the complaint. If this effort fails, the complaint is scheduled for a formal public hearing before an administrative law judge, other than the one with whom the prehearing conference was held. If further attempts at conciliation fail, the division convene a public hearing presided over by an administrative law judge. The complainant and the respondent or their representatives present their respective cases at hearing. When appropriate, witnesses are called upon to give testimony. If conciliation agreement is not reached before a hearing concludes, the administrative law judge will prepare a recommended order either supporting the allegations or dismissing them. The order will identify what remedy is required for the complainant to be "made whole", as if the act of discrimination had not occurred. This may include employment, promotion, raise, back pay, letter of reference, a change in the respondent's policies, and or cash award in compensation for humiliation, suffering and mental anguish. The commissioner reviews the recommended order together with the record of the hearing and makes a final approval or dismissal. Both the complainant or the respondent can appeal the commissioner's order within 60 days to the state supreme court. The compliance review officer conducts an investigation to see if the respondent has complied with the conciliation agreement or the commissioner's order no later than one year from the date of the decision. OHIO FEP Law. The Ohio Fair Practices Law prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, handicap, age, ancestry, and sex including pregnancy and any illness arising out of and occurring during the course of pregnancy, childbirth, or related medical condition. Coverage. The law applies to state and local government agencies, to private employers with four or more employees within the state, employment agencies, personnel placement services, and labor organizations. However, the law does not apply to domestic servants. Structure. The five members of the Ohio Civil Rights Commission are appointed to staggered five-year terms by the governor, and confirmed by the Ohio senate. The governor designates the member to serve as chair. The members of the commission serve as the sole decision making body for case related matters brought before the commission, and sets policies of a general nature for the agency. The commission appoints an executive director who serves as the chief executive officer, overseeing the day to day operations of the agency, and implementing the policies of the commission. Process. A charge of discrimination must be filed with the commission within six months of the alleged date of harm. In employment, the commission has jurisdiction over all employers with four or more employees, and all governmental entities. Charges are received and investigated by any of the commission's regional offices. After conducting a preliminary investigation, the regional office makes a recommendation to the commission, who then reviews and confirms those recommendations. It is only at this point that a letter of determination is issued. Any party aggrieved by a determination can file a request for reconsideration, which is reviewed and decided by the commissioners. Where the commission issues a finding of probable cause, the regional office must attempt conciliation. If conciliation fails or reaches an impasse, the commission will issue a formal complaint and notice of public hearing. The commission must complete its preliminary investigation and issue the formal complaint within one year from the date of filing. The attorney general will then present the case for the commission before a hearing examiner. At the conclusion of the hearing process, the hearing examiner will issue findings of fact, conclusions of law, and a recommendation to the commission. After reviewing this report, and any objections which may be filed in response to the report, the commission may adopt, modify, or reject the report, and issue an order of dismissal, or a cease and desist order. Any party aggrieved by a final order of the commission may file for judicial review of that order in state court. RHODE ISLAND FEP Law. The Rhode Island Fair Employment Practice Act prohibits employment discrimination based on an individual's race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, disability, age, or country of ancestral origin. Under the act, women affected by pregnancy, childbirth, or related medical conditions must be treated the same as any other employee who has similar job skills. Coverage. The act applies to the state and all political subdivisions of the state, as well as labor organizations, employment agencies, and any person employing four or more workers. Domestic workers, spouses, parents, or children of an employer are not covered by the law. Structure. The Rhode Island Commission for Human Rights consists of seven members appointed by the governor with the advice and consent of the senate. The chairperson is appointed by the governor. The commission should reflect the diversity of the state's population. At least one of the seven must have a background in law, business, and/or real estate. The commission members serve five year terms. They are compensated at no more than $50 a day with a maximum of $3,000 in one year. The commission appoints attorney, clerks, and any other employees as it deems necessary. Process. A person who believes they have been discriminated against have one year from the date of alleged harm to bring their compliant to the commission. After the intake phase is completed and a formal charge of discrimination is filed, each case is assigned to an investigator. In an attempt to reach quick and easy resolution to the complaint, investigators may hold preliminary hearings with all parties present. More often, the investigators hold fact-finding conferences where both complainant and respondent can present facts which confirm or deny the allegations. The commission attempts to settle every case, and only after all settlements possibilities are exhausted will the investigator make a recommendation to a preliminary investigating commissioner. When the commissioner rules on the investigator’s recommendation, the investigation process is completed. An administrative hearing begins after the preliminary investigating commissioner finds probable cause and the parties fail to agree to a settlements during the conciliation process. One commissioner conducts the hearing with the assistance of legal counsel. The commission encourages both parties to subpoena witnesses, who present sworn testimony. A certified stenographer records the entire proceeding. After the parties present all their evidence, three commissioners (a quorum) reach a decision and issue an order. TEXAS FEP Law. The Texas Employment Discrimination Law prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, disability, religion, sex, national origin, or age. It is also prohibited based on the use of genetic test results or an employee's refusal to submit to such testing. Coverage. The law applies to employers of 15 or more employees, the state, any individual elected to public office in the state or political subdivisions of the state. It also covers employment agencies, labor organizations, and labor management committees controlling apprenticeship-training programs. Structure. The Texas Commission on Human Rights is governed by a six member commission, appointed by the governor to serve staggered, six year terms. The commission must be composed of one representative each from industry and labor, while the other four are public members. In addition, appointments to commission must provide for representation with respect to disability, religion, age, economic status, sex, race, and ethnicity. The governor designates the chairperson. The commission sets policy for agency operations, hires the executive director, and adopts rules governing the administration of the agency's programs. While the commission members do not receive compensation, they are entitled to reimbursement for their expenses. Process. The complaint process begins when a complainant alleges a discriminatory practice. An agency investigator reviews the complaint to ensure that it is within the commission's authority and contains the basic elements of a discrimination complaint. Within ten days of receiving the complaint, the commission must notify the employer that a charge has been filed. By statute, the commission has 180 days after the filing date to process complaints before it must give employees notice of the right to take action in state court. After receiving this notice, the complainant has 60 days in which to take legal action, but may not take action after two years from the original filing date with the commission. Throughout the process, the commission tries to get the parties to reach an agreed settlement. This may be formal or informal procedure. Additionally, the executive director may refer a case to the agency's mediation process within ten days of receiving a complaint. The commission employs two full time mediators to impartially conduct mediation conferences. The parties have 30 days from the date of referral to mediate. If mediation or initial settlement efforts fail, the commission begins the full-scale investigation stage to determine whether reasonable cause exists to believe an employer has discriminated. The agency generally conducts in house investigations of employment complaints. Most information is collected by telephone or by sending information requests. The commission dismisses a complaint if the investigation reveals that no reasonable cause exists to believe discrimination occurred. If reasonable cause is found, a panel of three commission members review the evidence and determine reasonable cause. After a finding of reasonable cause, conciliation efforts resume. If conciliation terms are acceptable to all parties, the case is closed. Otherwise, the complaint may proceed to court. Return to Year 1999 Studies

What do you think is causing the recent spate of random stabbings in Japan and how can society address the problem? Have Your Say Jul. 30, 2008 - 07:55AM JST ( 45 ) Tweet Back to top Order by Time Order by Popularity 45 Comments Login to comment 0 rjd_jr "Society" really can't do much of anything to regulate what people will or won't do. If a person is going to stab or kill someone, they're going to do it. The only thing I think Japanese society can do in this seeming epidemic is to be proactive in 'self defense.' By that I mean perhaps carrying pepper spray, or hiring more police and having them be a physical presence and armed. 0 some14some ignored by 'rjd jr' and that is the main (largely ignored) reason that this problem will never get solved. First and foremost, one has to admit that there is a problem and then find the cause and cure. Till then discussion about later part 'how society address the problem' does not arise. 0 Vagante Copy-cat behavior? Japanese culture does not embrace originality or empathy within interpersonal relationships. Thus, anyone with a mental problem that inclines them to violence is likely to copy the last crime that they saw on TV. Then it becomes a kind of sick fashion. I'm surprised there aren't more. "Society" does not address problems; this is a task for those who make the laws and govern. The main perpetrators of this problem are the parents of these who express their frustration through violence. Poor parenting produces messed up kids who grow up (or don't grow up) to perpetuate the same. I see it every day. If the education process in Japan were to teach more about individual worth and freedom with responsibility, the situation might improve. As it stands, most interpersonal relations in Japan are functional roles where people are expected to behave in a prescribed manner and there is little sense of individual value. Frankly, It's a social sickness on a massive scale. The cure is to teach our children empathy and respect for each other. I would put that on the primary-school curriculum ahead of the three "R's". Then I would introduce parenting classes at Junior-High level - and I don't mean teaching kids how to change diapers. 0 akaguma clearly Japanese society is suffering from a shortage of voodoo dolls 0 bamboohat Only when would be knife attackers in Japan start to fear for their safety upon possible retaliation of thier vicitms will the incidents decrease appreciably. Since the government would have to admit that Japan is not "safety country" to acknowledge this, it will only happen when individual citizens begin to take active responsibility for their own safety. 0 beithsidhe I haven't lived in Japan long but I have noticed how absolutely prescribed life is here and I wonder if this is part (and only part) of the problem. I don't simply mean people reacting adversely to being so controlled (clearly that is not an issue with most Japanese) but rather that if everything you are supposed to do every day is structured for you (to the point as even as a professional, white collar, adult your lunch hours are regulated by bells) you simply never learn to regulate your own behaviour. Thus, when it occurs to you that you could kill someone with a knife (and that strikes you as either a solution to a problem or just something interesting to do) and there is nothing specifically regulating you in the moment not to do it then it is likely you will do it. The answer is not more social regulation from without (which can never be sure of addressing every situation and, history show, will eventually cause rebellion) but to teach people to honour others equally with themselves so that there is an internal regulator which stops such crimes. In other words, despite getting there in a different way, exactly the same thing that needs to be taught in countries with higher crime rates, too. 0 TPOJ Interestingly, I interviewed a Japanese man the other day who said that conformity has gone UP considerably in the last 40 years. He blamed the schools. Much like the "Under God" in the American Pledge, the idea of conformity in Japan is treated as some kind of inherent tradition, despite the fact that both seem to be only 50 years old or so. The inability to address change and deal with turmoil is made worse by regressive thinking: i.e. "let's go back to...whatever." People aren't built to be put BACK into a box. Especially if that box is defined by a history that is, let's be honest, more trend than longtime standard. The guy I interviewed said that while individualism wasn't rampant in the past, it wasn't nearly as pronounced as it is now, and he placed the blame firmly on the educational system. My ultimate point is one that's been made about Japan a million times: repression is not a virtue, and it WILL bite you in the ass. "Society" can't really do much about these individuals as they exist now. All it can really do is try to improve its direction, and wait for the symptoms of its past mistakes to burn themselves out. 0 donpablo blue_monday I think it stems from a vague but deeply implanted victim mentality, particularly prevalent in the run up to the anniversary of Japan losing the war. Over the years the facts have become vague, but the emotions are pervasive. 0 rjd_jr Not quite some14some, I'm hardly "ignoring" the problem, because there is nothing to "ignore." And the fact that the media in Japan is focusing on these senstational stabbing incidents is proof enough that this problem is NOT being ignored. All the theories here are irrelevant and absolutely without merit in terms of what motivates people to go out and stab people and kill strangers for whatever reason. People kill because they are inclined to do that. They are sociopaths and hardly unique to Japan. Blaming lack of individualism and free thinking and free will in Japan as a root cause of criminal behavior is absolutely false, and quite frankly, insulting to the people of Japan. If this were the case then you would not see people in other countries, that supposedly have limitless freedom, opportunities, and free will, commit murders and other acts of violent crime. It never fails to amaze me the amateur psychologists and experts here with their false assumptions and analysis. 0 BillOreilly Hey, THese people have grown up without discipline, and without learning old fashioned christian values. Lots of these stabbings are carried out by kids, i blame the parents for not supervising their kids, allowing violent video games etc. The cycle of violence has gotta stop, and the family has the duty to provide a decent environment for each other. 0 Nessie Have we established there has been a spate? Without looking at the statistical data, this claim is dubious. 0 Eizenhauer In Japanese schools, starting from elementary all the way up to university, kids aren't being taught about good manners anymore. When did you see last time a teenager stand up and give a seat to elderly person on a train? It goes way back to sixties when poor parenthood skills started taking effect. Kids can now break the whole supermarket and being unsupervised while parents are shopping. When parents see what their child has done they simply say "yamette kudasai, hontoni yamette..." If my child did something like that trust me he/she would never again get such an idea. Kids grown in this way turn into cold people without any love for environment, parents or not even to mention people on the street that they stab with knife for sporting "stress relief"... Watch your back! Keep your eyes wide open! Be on constant lookout! If you see some idiot stabbing someone take the nearest bicycle as your weapon and smash it onto attacker's head without any remorse and then take his knife away and let someone call the police while you're still holding the attacker in arm lock for police to take over. Times are sure changing and once safe country is slowly becoming a dangerous place to live unless you watch your back. 0 chinpira Already too late for too many in this society, this is why over 33,000 people commit suicide each year in this country. Their exit methods are the problem and its affecting the innocent. One major reason for crimes against innocent bystanders and not just with knives is "I want to get the death penalty". This happened with the stabbing spree about 3 months ago at a station where 7 people were knifed. The following week a teenager killed a random salaryman who just finished a long day at work by pushing him off the platform and onto an oncoming train for the same reason. Over thirty self gassing incidents this year alone caused major problems with hundreds of innocent bystanders in surrounding areas suffering from toxic poisoning. Then there are the daily railway related suicides which affect thousands of commuters. Wanting to die is an unfortunate fact in Japanese society. Its a sad state, but government aided suicide is needed for those hell bent on ending their life. There should also be a new classification for random attacks on multiple victims, hanging after a drawn out 10 year trial is a joke. Something similar to Saudi Arabia "chop-chop square" comes to mind, this should act as a deterrent. This form or other slower more painful forms of punishment should help stop the current execution method being the actual motivation for committing the crime. I can only feel for the friends and families, who lose loved ones from these inhumane and senseless attacks. The perpetrators need to loose all human rights and be disposed of quickly. 0 cleo Nessie - Very valid point. Actually I hope it is a spate; rather nasty to think that people have been being stabbed daily up and down the countryas a matter of course and it's only now that we're hearing abut it. rjd jr - Very well said. chinpira - Everyone 'knows' that Japan has a higher suicide rate than any other country, and everyone 'knows' the cause lies in the unique, distorted Japanese society. So how do you explain the fact that 20 countries, including Finland, Belgium, Austria, France and Switzerland all have higher male suicide rates than Japan? For the 15-24 age group, Japan is pushed into 31st place, eclipsed by, among others, New Zealand, Norway, Canada, Australia, US, Sweden, Denmark and Germany. Is it 'already too late' for those societies, too? 0 buttamimi Stabbing people at random is just another form of mental instability. The stabbers are people who are desperately seeking help and attention. It just so happens that they are using knives to get their message across. They should have received help long before they carried out their desperate acts. Someone, surely, must have known the mental condition, frame of mind of the perpetrators. Perhaps too many people have iPods and iPhones plugged into their brains to take any notice of what is happening in the real world. 0 Jooooon The only "spate" going on is that of sensationalized saturation coverage by Japanese TV news agency of anything remotely lurid. This practice seems modeled after the 24/7 entertainment produced by CNN (whose producers mislabel as "news"). It is immensely profitable. It has all the predictable results. 0 lilalia First problem is communication. If all is resumed to "iii tenki desu neee ?" or other short messages, how to communicate ? If communication will exist maybe many troubles will disapear or at least it will reduce the incidence. Communication must start from inside family, and also in the social group - school, university, job. And communication means not only "hear what the boss (teacher) say", it means a conversation where all the involved ones are telling what they like to say. Hoe can somebody "feel that something is wrong in somebody's brain", if that somebody is never specking ? To guess, it is impossible even for doctors. 0 chinpira Cleo- I'm not comparing Japan's suicide rate to that of other nations I'm sure as you point out that Japan is not the leader here... the point is that many suicides in Japan directly affect innocent bystanders with the methods used in each suicide... whether it be jumping in front of a train, Jumping off a building (young girl jumped of the Parco building in Ikebukuro 3 months ago killing the man she landed on) gassing themselves or mass killing to receive a death sentence. 0 some14some Some readers are just commenting on others comments without touching the subject e.g. cleo . JT may remind the readers that the subject is : what do you think is causing the recent spate of random stabbings in Japan and how can soceity address the problem? 0 JavaChip Sorry if I seem cynical, but the "recent spate of random stabbings" in Japan is a fad. Same as the family-member murdering/dismembering fad more than one year ago, or the suicide/neighbor homicide by hydrogen sulfide fad a few months ago (not sure that one's completely over, though). As such, it will sooner or later go away. Nip individuality in the bud and you get little robots! The dysfunctional mental state of the larger part of the Japanese society, however, is not temporary. And waiting for the current fad to go away is, of course, not a solution, not only because it would be morally wrong to do so and more lives would (and, unfortunately, will) be lost in a meaningless way, but also because something else is sure to come up and "inspire" these people who need to vent their anger and are unable to find a less violent way to do it. Yeah, let's ban long, double-blade knives and cleaning solutions and... what else? Banning the "tools" will always be useless, for a very simple reason: a desperate individual who wants to harm those around him/her will easily find a way to do that (or, in the case of disturbed Japanese individuals, an alternative source of inspiration). Hell, if I, right now, have a sudden urge to kill or at least severely maim someone, I can find within my reach at least 2-3 "tools" to do it. And I'm at my desk, not in the kitchen or in some workshop. So, "preventing" is not stopping somebody who decided to kill or hurt people to vent their anger at... who knows what or who. Preventing is either providing that person with an alternative, safer way to deal with their anger, and/or thinking of ways to diminish the chances that your average Tanaka-san reaches such a level of mental distress. How can "society" do that? Well, let's look around for a moment, shall we? If we consider the lives of most Japanese people, I'm sure we can see where the anger and the idea that "randomly killing unknown people on the street is the way to go" comes from. Yeah, these have become clichees, but it's true: - manga and tv-dramas don't help on morality issues; - commonplace overtime work doesn't do any good to people's state of mind and definitely increases work-related stress, especially since that overtime is done not because you want to finish a task or you feel that you cannot rest until you do that, but because you know your boss and coworkers expect nothing less of you, in an otherwise meaningless job - unsatisfying social relationships (family, friends) deny people exactly the kind of emotional outlet and support they need when life becomes too much. Speaking of which: God may have given you your family, and you're stuck with it, but the Company did not give you friends, it gave you coworkers! Learn the difference, for there is one, and sometimes it's huge. It will save you all the disappointment and keep you from thinking that your "friends" don't appreciate you. Simple rule: if someone does not appreciate you (or even like you that much), it means they're not your friends, and you shouldn't take their opinion about you as absolute truth. Learn to trust yourself more, and find some real friends, people who understand and relate to you, and you'll see how fast life gets better! 0 nisegaijin a trend... like hello kitty... hope it will end and become forgotten like everything else. 0 Altria It's just a fad...a couple of months ago all the cool depressed kids were offing themselves with H2S. Now the hip thing is to stab a few people to show the world your angst. Next month it probably be swallowing a live fugu and slowly dying as your body digests it - you heard it here first! 0 pointofview That s a tough one. I think society has been whipped up by a huge vortex and they cant set themselves free. It could be related to the militaristic ways at school and at work. I think it drives them to the point where they can t really do something outside the ordinary. Dont get me wrong I have met a lot of cool Japanese people. Many who have been very helpful. But it s when you take things outside the box. Thats when things change. I passed out on the train last year on the way to work and not one person helped me. When I came about everyone was just staring like I was a monster. I couldn t believe it. This is an example of being in a lost world. They just couldnt figure out what to do. It`s confusing but as long as there is oppression and group thinking in society expect people to flip out quite often. To be honest I think many people in Japan have just given up or lost confidence. There is a lot of potential in Japan but there needs to be some major changes. 0 dennis0bauer rjd_jr the media makes a big fuzz of it but the goverment ignores it or focuses on non-trivial matters like banning certain knives. The problem is how japanese society deals with problems at home or at work. It is shamefull to show weakness or defeat. so people just stuff it and slowly turn into timebombs, there is no way in japan to create a dialog to resolve matters. It realy means that Japanese society needs to change as a whole (but i do not see that happening). But for now? Say mental problems are ok and bring in the shrinks to talk to people who want to kill themslves and/or others for meaningless reasons 0 pointofview I just hope that some foreign worker/teacher etc. doesn`t encounter such a horrific situation. I wonder what would happen then. I also wonder if you defended yourself and actually disarmed the attacker would you be punished for hitting them or injuring them. This is Japan. 0 chinpira Cleo- No, definitely not any sicker. Murdering any innocent by-stander is pure evil no matter what the method. My point is that in Japan many suicides affect innocent by-standers by accident and are a bi-product of the suicidee's chosen method. However in some cases the only reason for the killing is to then turn themselves straight into the koban to be processed with the hope of receiving the death penalty. The links you provide are not so, the difference is that these people wanted to take out a few people before they go. This often not the case here, the killing is a means to an end. So in direct response to this poll: 1. People determined 100% to commit suicide need a clean method to end their lives with zero impact on others. 2. There needs to be a stronger deterrent aimed at people who commit mass stabbing or any other murder spree.... hanging is not a deterrent for this group. 0 tkoind2 Japan is suffering a national mental health crisis and has no structure to address it. Psychological care here still carries a strong stigma and the resources available are very limited. There are many reasons for this mental health crisis. Some obvious causes are: 1. Overwork and work stress 2. Lack of work/life balance 3. Lack of protection against work related abuse and ill treatment. 4. Increasing number of working poor. 5. Increasing economic and financial strains. 6. Diminished employment security and stability. 7. Social pressure to suppress stress rather than seek positive outlets for it. 8. Declining social fabric and increasing alienation and isolation of individuals in Japanese society. 9. Increasing number of people who are disenfrancised. 10. Declining interpersonal interaction as more and more people turn to computers, cell phones and media rather than social connections. How to fix it? 1. Address labor laws to improve working conditions and employee protections. 2. Legislate and enforce work life balance measures. 3. Improve mental health care awareness and information sharing with the public. 4. Provide a stronger mental health care structure and system with better resources for people to turn to. 5. Fund and support more community and neighborhood outreach and other programs to get people reconnected with communities. 6. Teach employers and others how to recognize danger signs. 7. Don't ignore the problem. Resolve it. economics and the rising number of working poor, long hours for overworked employees and t 0 Farmboy Well, let's start with the idea of suicide as an honorable act, and then branch out, asking if taking your children with you when you commit suicide is also honorable. Some people strongly believe so. Now how about taking strangers with you? Is that honorable, too? Is there a case when suicide is not honorable? When is that? How about murder in itself? Is it ever justifiable? Now maybe in Japan's history, suicide might have made sense as an act to avoid dishonor to one's family, and maybe murder could be justified in some way as well, but I don't think that line of thought can be argued very well in today's society. Still, I'm afraid that when people are frustrated, upset, disappointed, and so on, suicide will seem like a good idea, and if killing yourself is a good idea, I don't think it's much of a moral leap to kill others, since both ideas require one to not see the ultimate effects of one's actions, which affect many people besides oneself. And then, people need something to live for as well, but that's another story. Society will address these problems when society has reached its limit. This will be some time off, I'm afraid. 0 some14some tkoind2: great explanation, now even if they follow half of it crime rate will go down drastically. Unfortunately i do not think it happening now or in near future. 0 umioso I believe that Japan is a high-stress society. Far be it from me to suggest that Japan should make drastic changes but, that being said, Japan should make psychological help easily available in the form of anger management hot lines. Group therapy for people who are "stressed out" is a good deterrent. These ideas are only effective if the stress-challenged person wants and SEEKS help. Co-workers and neighbors could also be made aware of symptoms of excessive stress when they see it. 0 yabits Conditions in Japan are very much like the conditions of this thread of posts on the topic. There are three general categories: 1) Those who care enough to look at the issue, analyze it and discuss it. They are the ones who believe that there is something inherently off kilter with Japanese society and that conditions can be improved. (I hear many Japanese say in passing that their society is "sick.") 2) Those who live in denial of any inherent problems within the society, and who are fatalistic as to the causes, and so totally absent from any potential remedy -- and even resistant to any positive steps taken to suggest remedies. 3) The people who are so nihilistic, cynical, or turned-off that they would never even give the time of day to this or any other such discussions. (The non-posters, and the kinds who do the stabbing as well.) Societies have all three types at all times, but I think the problems come when those in groups 2 and 3 start to significantly outnumber the first group. And the key to that increase is the attitudes of people in Group 2, and how much they are able to influence others to their point of view. Just as an individual must examine his or her conscience and reflect on behavior (hansei), society must also have a vehicle for doing the same. The people in the second group will resist such measures because such things are an admission that there are deep flaws within their society, and to suggest such a thing would be perceived as an "insult." 0 helloklitty Passive-aggressive country - nothing direct - let everything boil over 0 kokuryu Overall, Japan's society is crumbling from the inside outward. The forces of change being exerted by the younger people in Japan are running into a wall of opposition by the older people living in Japan. A new Japanese society and a new Japanese language are both evolving and wanting to be born. This change has been noted by the officials and people in power in Japan, and they have attempted to clamp down on it, similar to the past mass executions done in order to control the tide of society and people in Japan, where whole towns just vanished overnight, rather than that the new age is causing spot people to vanish out of the blue. This void is noticed by society on a subliminal level, as the corruption of police and officials reaches new heights, and the general xenophobia that exists against all non-Japanese ethnic groups combines to make an era where "Japanese citizens do no crimes" and everything is scapegoated to anyone non-Japanese that happens to be in the area. This heightened sense of being able to "get away" with anything because they are Japanese, coupled with the heightened "useless people" syndrome where anyone with disabilities, who fails at anything, or otherwise is not generally liked by the "popular" crowd is automatically "useless" and deserves to die or be killed, has spawned a new era in Japan where it is slowing becoming acceptable to actually kill off those people feel are "useless" or "unwanted" - which could be anyone, because each person has their own list of who is "useless" and "unwanted". This backpressure created by the government is now feeding upon society itself and the corrupted infrastructure that currently supports it. It is something that cannot be sustained, and will probably overflow into full scale mass deaths around the country before something has to fail and fall. The current power structure has to end abruptly - either through it's own destruction, or by mass resignations, followed by a purge of all corrupted officials everywhere in Japan, and new leadership has to arise from the youngest generation in Japan to fill the void. The current Japanese language has to also be allowed to evolve to it's fullest, which will create a new blended language that will probably become a fad language that could itself evolve into a universal language that everyone in the world can use. But I doubt very much that this positive outcome will happen - absolute power corrupts absolutely, and those in power do not want nor desire any change unless it gives them more power - and Japan is a society that inherently worships such power and power structures, which will give rise to it's ultimate downfall. 0 solarbuster Society has always had crazies and always will, however Japan is changing no longer do Japanese have a job for life. No longer are people staying in their own community and this is the biggest problem. The system of support that came from living in small units with one person as a community leader is breaking down as young people seek the same independance as Westerns have. This means stress levels rise and people who have border line mental problems succum to the extra pressures. They are no longer protected from harsh reality by friends and neighbours who have always made allowance for their "strange" behaviour. The school yard bullies are no longer stopped from picking on them by older kids because parents no longer teach their children that they have responcibility towards the community. These "strange" people turn inward and fantasy takes over their lives. To make matters worse when they do some crazy act the law sends them to some doctor who puts them on medication and then pushes them back into society with no one making sure that they keep taking their pills. Some of these people put back into society are so dangerous that parents after spending years pleading with authorities the lock their children away, have tried to kill their own kids or asked some one else to do it for them. A massive amount of money and a completely new way of handling mental health issues is needed along with new laws to bring mental health services up to scratch. Until this is done the problems will continue as more and more people with border line mental illness tip over the edge of no return. Not through fads but by the ignorance and fear of mental illness of politicians who keep throwing the problem in the too hard basket instead of providing better services to society. 0 stubar Confining this to the "recent stabbings" greatly undermines the larger problem of similar crimes that have occured for decades. The problems and causes are: Poor family relationships caused primarily from over work, "idol" culture and the obession with the sexualisation of girls, especially young ones and exploiting them on tv,and thirdly the unwillingness of people to help those with problems or recognise individuality, excluding them from the rest of society. 0 LIBERTAS A dysfunctional, immature society which places more value on designer goods than human life. Japan is a place where the only acceptable emotion displayed is anger. Endless repression of the individual for the good of the corporation doesn't work. These displays are a breakdown of the social contract. Solution: radical reform. But first you have to admit you have a problem! And Japan will never do that. It believes that it is a perfect, unique, chosen race and people. Like the other one! 0 jadedsun I live in the UK, and knife crime is increasing day by day here. The Government has tried Knife and Gun Amnesties, increasing police on the streets, targetting known gang members and yet nothing is working. The only way, in my view, to cut down knife crime is to severely increase the jail sentence from a standard 18 months to 5 years minimum without a chance for getting out of jail early. Increase the discipline and strictness in prison so that the offenders would think twice about doing something that bad again to end up there. We've thought of bringing back National Service in this country, as in the early 20th century when it was first introduced, crime amongst youths fell dramatically. If it was introduced as a compulsary measure to anyone who is seen as a menace to society or anyone who can't be bothered to get a job, then hopefully it will deter them from doing what they are doing now and motivate them into making a new life for themselves. 0 Saicook Totally Agreed with jadedsun. removing the death penality,and replacing it with life sentence is a good medecine for the mentality (sickness?) that chinpira was talking about. sorry for the short comment. 0 retirednavygaijin What do you think is causing the recent spate of random stabbings in Japan? Uhhhh, lack of guns? Back to top

Are the Arabs intrinsically incapable of democracy, as the "realists" imply? True, there are political, historical, even religious reasons why Arabs are less prepared for democracy than, say, East Asians and Latin Americans who successfully democratized over the last several decades. But the problem here is Iraq's particular political culture, raped and ruined by 30 years of Saddam's totalitarianism.That's certainly true but part of Saddam's notoriety as an above average muslim thug comes from the fact that some Iraqi's did attempt insurrection and his reaction was not much different than the Syrians or the Algerians or the Iranians or the Jordanians or the Saudis or the Egyptians or the Turks or the Paks or the Afghans or the Somalis or the Sudanese or the Libyans or the Lebanese ad infinitum, ad nauseum. But unless the Iraqis can put together a government of unitary purpose and resolute action, the simple objective of this war — to leave behind a self-sustaining democratic government — is not attainable.Can't argue with that. 40 comments: Well, here's the crux, as stated by you in an earlier thread: My problem with Iraq is the governments refusal to assert a monopoly on the use of force. I agree with that statement. That's a very specific problem we and the Iraqis have to deal with. But that specific detail concerning Maliki doesn't make Krauthammer an expert on the possibility of an Arab democracy (of some sort--we are very lax at defining exactly what that would be.) The problem I see (and, of course, I'm no expert either) is that it will take this culture a heckuva lot longer to work through to this goal than most others. I've always seen the Iraq project as giving the Arab a world a chance at it. However, my mistake was in forgetting how impatient Americans are. And I'm quite disappointed in those conservatives who have jumped on the Iraqiphobia bandwagon due to the election. ISTM that they've mostly gone wobbly and that includes Bush. Syl, If you want to dig through the archives at Belmont Club you can find comments that I wrote three years ago that said that there would be a civil war and the sooner it was over the sooner that building a real nation in Iraq might begin. I don't consider actual recognizable democracy to be compatible with Islam and outside of the sham of Turkey there is no evidence that it is. Maliki has taken himself out - we just need to make an example of him (or let the Iraqi people make an example of him) and then try and 'manage' the damage of the civil war. Gen Zebar ran some Iraqi Special Forces units into Sadr city while Maliki was busy kissing Turkish butt over the weekend. Maybe the Iraqi people will get to take another shot at muslim theodemocracy after Maliki gets the boot. Whether they do or not depends upon their reaction to the destruction of Sadr's forces - and Sadr. I don't want the US to leave at all - I just want to see ROE that minimize American casualties. That means a lot more dead Iraqis - including a much higher number of 'collaterals'. That's unfortunate but that's what they've earned to date. The 'collaterals' stand around and watch the IEDs being planted and not near enough of them warn American forces. What goes around comes around. Rick How do you think Indonesia is doing? It's a muslim country. And re civil war, it's not and will not be a civil war. There's too few sunni left for a civil war to occur. Now if the shia start fighting other shia, then you might have a point. As Mohammed at ITM puts it, neighboring countries are interfering so America has the right to interfere too and help Iraq find someone to take over for Maliki. Iraqis have totally lost faith in the government they elected. Is it a lesson learned? Is it too late? We'll see. He suggested Allawi (my choice) but fears he doesn't have broad enough support. (But if Allawi is thought to be competent and capable of 'fixing' things he might get more support.) He even suggested the Kurds may come up with some solution. Syl: yes, when one side represents about 15% of the population, it is not a civil war, it is a potential massacre. I read that a lot of the Sunni are going to Fallujah. It is possible that the Iraqis (and if it is true of them it may well be true of several other areas of the ME) need to have their knock-down, drag-out battle among themselves. Call it "civil war" or whatever makes sense. But until somebody is beaten bloody enough to give up while the remainder are beaten bloody enough to wish for and end to their bloodshed, they may well be incapable of figuring out how to move forward peacefully. It is a shame that we don't have a press who would go there and figure out what is going on, who is who, what they are pissed off or frightened about enough to blow people up in bunches, and whether or not there's any good chance they can be made or convinced to get over it. And then tell us about it honestly. Oh well. I seriously doubt the American people have the patience and attention span to let it play out. They certainly don't have information because there's nobody packing up large chunks of trustworthy information. Knuck Remember for every shia there are 4 sunni and most of the shia are in Iran. So that means in every middle east country, the shia are a tiny minority. Except Lebanon and Iraq. So let's just not go there. It's going to get worse in Lebanon as is and there was just another assassination of a cabinet minister there. Syl, So let's just not go there. How do we not "go there"? I doubt that you meant "let's no got there" in the "let's not even talk about this!" sense. If that is the case and you meant, instead, "we cannot let that happen" then how do we prevent it? I was going to put these pointers in a post but I think they more properly belong here. Instapundit points to M. Simon and Spengler who make cases that the Islam is breaking up - dying - and that the suicide bomber pehnomenon is a sign of that. M. Simon points to a two posts (one, two) by commenter Sgt. Mom. It is certainly possible that the propensity for mass murder is a symptom of Islam's death throes as the modern world puts a stake through its heart. I've attempted to make the case that Islam cannot survive modernity in the past. I have some doubts but on the whole I suspect that Islam, for all its centuries of expansion, its bloody borders, its billion adherents, its rank as the "largest growing religion", and its vast petro wealth cannot survive the steam-roller that is modernity. But even if the basic premise is true - Islam has essentially shot its wad and is now desperate and dying - how does that really matter to those of us who must live through the next hundred or more years while the desperate and dying carcass thrashes violently and murderously both internally and externally? We cannot save the beast even if we were dumb enough to think doing so a good idea. We can't administer a morphine drip to calm it and ease its pain. We have to defend ourselves from the thrashing beast. We can't just sit around and tell the victims - past present and future - not to worry about it because, after all, it won't last forever because death is on the way. If, as Spengler claims, Iran is a dead nation walking what good does that do us? The fingers on the buttons within the USSR seem to have had the sense to realize that there was no point to killing millions with some act of desperation. Have we some reason to believe the madmen who control a dying Iran will believe the same? If, in fact, they believe their apocalyptic nonsense it seems to me they'd be more inclined to push the button and try to take the infidels out. Needless to say, I'm in one of my pessimistic periods where I have dark thoughts such as it may just be better, horrible as it would be, to just finish this thing. Nuke 'em now and get on with the cleanup 'cause we're gonna nuke 'em eventually anyway. Why wait till they strike the first blow? Well, sorry, I've wandered. Knuck Go back and check the link in the update to the post linking M.Simon and spengler. I'm with the update guy. Syl, I read the "update" guy - the medic. The points he makes are among those which leave me some doubt re: the idea that Islam is dying. Islam has always been violent and it's adherents don't seem to have ever given a rat's butt who or how many they kill or what methods they use. So the suicide bomb and bomber may well be just more of the same. Same miserably, murdering ideology, different day. And I find Spengleer's piece unconvincing. I'm pretty sure we could find many examples of high proportions of female populations engaged in prostitution without corresponding social collapse. And I imagine we could find examples of collapse without corresponding rises in prostitution. That and the fact that if he presented some sort of evidence of demographic collapse in Iran then I must have missed it. All the data I've seen says they have a very young population. I didn't see anything that says their birth rate has fallen off a cliff. What are the possibilities? 1. the "Islamic world" is gaining strenght and confidence and, therefore, surging again and merely repeating their history of violent expansionism. 2. the "Islamic world" is treading water and the violence emanating from it is just the modern manifestation of a systemic problem with Islam. 3. the "Islamic world" is struggling mightily with the unstoppable forces of modernization that are destroying it and is lashing out violently. I suppose there are some more nuanced possibilities but I'm missing them at the moment. None of those three are attractive. They are all bad. As much as I dislike them all I'd prefer #3. At least that suggests and end somewhere even if a few more centuries down the road. Maybe reformation arrived somewhere near 200 years earlier for the crescent than it did for the cross. Wouldn't be much of a surprise given the improvements in the means of communication and transportation during the intervening 400+ years. That would be #3. Knuck, I tend to #3, but there is something also to #1 given the situation in Europe. As I wrote in Terrye's post, above: We need to remember that there is no such thing as a stable social order. All forms of society or culture are unstable. The ones that succeed in the long run are the ones that have a way of recycling the unstabilizing desire and resentment they create back into their system. Islam has always had its way of recycling its resentments. Big man government has. It seems we should try chaning from within before we move on to preparing for the big blow. We also need to stop importing Jihadists to the West, chaps who couldn't get here under their own steam. Just to toss another voice/idea into the mix, Gates of Vienna seems to be arguing for strangling the Islamic world through quaranteen. Thanks, Knuck. Fjordman (and the Baron and Dymphna) have a very clear view of the muslim enemy. Quarantine will be almost impossible to achieve unless Islam is redefined as a political system (which it absolutely is) and muslims treated the way we used to treat communists. No visas, no immigration and quick deportation for those overstaying current visas.. Knucklehead: "We cannot save the beast even if we were dumb enough to think doing so a good idea." Like you, I have phases of deep pessimism. But I do not view our presence in Iraq as any sort of attempt to "save" Islam- (if that is what you meant)-just the opposite. Evolution occurs more rapidly when there are external pressures. And Rick, I think you are right, that Islam (as it is) is incompatible with democracy (indeed any sort of rule by man). I think we do a favor to ourselves and to future generations by ushering in that realization and by forcing Islam to evolve somehow. The critical change that has to happen (IMO) is the recognition of freedom of conscience. Christians fought for a couple of centuries, I think, over that one. That change, if it can happen, will not happen overnight and will probably not happen without external pressure applied to the adherants of this religion. 4. It's all about sex. The upsurge of rape and sexual assault by muslim males is becoming more and more documented. Britain (once the PC mentality lets the statistics have wider dissemination). Sweden. Egypt (where a blogger was just arrested for pointing out the assaults on women in downtown Cairo.) Perhaps the reason for the upsurge in sexual assaults is globalization of the female body and the muslim male just cannot cope. Sharia law is very very strict. Also recently we heard from an ex-jihadi who was indoctrinated into the suicide school solely for the virgins in the afterlife. He said it is a very very powerful incentive for the muslim male. (Though Butt, the al Qaeda recruiter in Britain interviewed a couple years ago, denies this and I don't think sex was a big thing with Arafat's arguments when he started the suicide bomber movement.) Unfortunately I doubt the possibility of bigwhig clerics/mullahs issuing a fatwa declaring masturbation halal. All those males. All those untouchable women. What's a jihadi to do? On the other hand, that fatwa probably wouldn't do anything anyway. It's not about sex, it's about power over women. I'd be remiss not to add that. Bostonian, The problem with the concept of an Islamic Reformation is that it ignores the fact that the Koran is "unchangeable" - and read in its original language. The Christian Reformation erred many times in its initial exegesis through mistranslation compounded by flat misunderstandings of intent. Those errors led to the diversity of denominations in existence today - and to very widespread acceptance of the idea that "there is no one true perfect Christian way of understanding". The muslim sects are divided on a much narrower basis and the basic precepts of haram/halal which establish a world divided into two separate classes is absolutely clear to any Arab speaker. That clear division is the basis of the death cult and it can't be removed or truly deemphasized without leading to very sustainable charges of heresy. If you want an example of the depth of the hypocrisy embodied in haram/halal just study the remarks of the revered Sistani who firmly declares that it is haram to blow up fellow muslims. He says absolutely nothing about non-muslims for which I hope that he manages to make it very close to a very big blast prior to the end of his miserable existence. Yeah, Rick, I know, I know. I had an unforgettable conversation with an Egyptian co-worker years ago, who assured me that the Koran was the literal word of God. Still, people find a way when they *have* to. Humans have a nearly unlimited capacity for rationalizing whatever needs to be rationalized (witness my stepmom who thinks that the Kelo decision was ultimately conservative). But there will be no change unless pressure is applied. Seventeen hundred years of jihad attest to that. The problem with the concept of an Islamic Reformation is that it ignores the fact that the Koran is "unchangeable" - and read in its original language. Oh, for God's sake. The Koran is no more "unchangeable" than the Bible. If it weren't, there wouldn't be so many differences in how Islam is observed --- eg, Islamic eastern europeans don't wedar head scarves, and doi drink alcohol. For which they would be tried convicted and punished in every sharia court throughout the ME. What heretics do away from the reach of the law is meaningless. Let me know when women are wandering around Riyadh without looking like sacks of rags. The problem with the concept of an Islamic Reformation is that it ignores the fact that the Koran is "unchangeable" - and read in its original language. Um, this is what the early Christians claimed as well. Granted, it's obviously taking a helluva lot longer for Islam to begin to come to terms with this. And they've had centuries of Islamic thought and arguments to fortify Islam against assaults on this purity. It's not at all what early Christians claimed. The canon wasn't even set for two hundred years and the early church fathers spent a great deal of time arguing original intent and meaning. "Unchangeable" and "inerrant" didn't show up for a very long time. The Jews didn't establish their canon until about the same time. You're comparing apples and boxcars. What brought on reformation? What brought the Muslim Brotherhood into being? That is where, I'm coming to believe, the parallel exists. The Reformation greatly reduced the role of religion in the temporal aspects of life where Christianity held sway and it did so at tremendous cost to countless people who lived and died through centuries of turmoil while reformation played out. There's little reason to think a reformation in Islam, should it play out, won't result in the same, but worldwide. Not really something I'd care to see happen. Our best hope remains, in my view, affording the maximum exposure possible through communications technologies to the material goods (and I mean everything) available to those who embrace modernity—pathetic as that may read. What brought on reformation? What brought the Muslim Brotherhood into being? That is where, I'm coming to believe, the parallel exists. The Reformation greatly reduced the role of religion in the temporal aspects of life where Christianity held sway -Well just because the pre-Reformation church, as a social insitution, had a lot of power in temporal life does not mean that power was in essence Christianity. Maybe it was just the power typical of any pre-modern social institution, comparable in logic and structure to that of , say, the Chinese empires. Maybe the essence of Christianity - the model of Christ's life and teaching - is so radical in its call to universal reciprocity that it neither then nor now has been fully achievable in this world and is necessarily constrained by clerical and no-clerical institutions. But, I would suggest, the modern marketplace that you see as being pathetic Loner is actually a very positive step towards the Christian call to universal reciprocity and maybe that was what the Reformation was all about. But then, if a Reformation is a return to, or a further realization of (whether in sacred or secular guise) the founder's revelation, then an Islamic Reformation would be a return to the revelation and practice of Mohammed. If this is so, you could argue that Islam has already had countles reformations, but none has served to bring Islam into modernity because modernity is essentially Christian and Islam is neither. In which case, we have every reason to be at war with the Muslim Brotherhood. To clarify the argument that modernity is essentially Christian, one would have to say that all of the Gnostic religions and ideologies that are perhaps the more apparent "essence" of modernity are Gnostic responses to Christianity, and that modernity is some kind of dialectic between Christianity and the heresies that are typical of it. That was Eric Voegelin's argument. "Unchangeable" and "inerrant" -not quite the same as Eternal and Uncreated. Because however unchangeable a canon became in theory, Christianity necessarily situates itself in a prophetic tradition in which the creation and its revelation has been a partnership (if not an equal one) of God and man. So, the realization that interpretation is necessarily involved in any "literal" reading will come more easily to Christians than to Muslims, especially when Christians are in contact with Greek traditions of reason. All religions change, no doubt, but Islam has clearly had a harder time of it than others because of its central doctine that it holds the eternal and uncreated truth, a doctrine that was designed precisely to counter the monotheism of the Jews and Christians who believed in a revelation that (had) unfolded in historical, human, time. truepeers— I don't think the modern marketplace pathetic. Far from it.. -no I don't think it pathetic; good Moslems are certainly religious but they are also political (in Western terms). -as for the modern free market, as Karl Polanyi showed, it is a very novel thing, no more than 300 years old. It was only ever able to emerge once in human history - much mitigates against it. And it was created by Christians. Does that prove it is a product of Christianity? No, but it certainly suggests it, especially when you look at how difficult other civilizations have had adapting to it even when its productive superiority has been demonstrated. Even people who make the decision to jump in, have an awful time throwing off the older ethical systems of, e.g., patron-client relationships, like today's Chinese. E.g., even with all their cheap labour, today's Chinese cars are more expensive than then need me because Communist officials have interests in and protect certain manufacturers. What is a free market, where the centre does not hold, where creative ethical destruction reigns? It is a place where the individual traders are able to go to the margins of the world and act on their own, without benefit of ritual direction - i.e. challenging, destroying, and personally rearranging the ethical order - because they are able to incorporate centrality in themselves. I can only see this as an outgrowth of Christianity - though of course once the modern marketplace exists, anyone can learn to adapt to it and one need not be Christian to succeed in it. I see our secular Western culture as a secular form of (judeo or national) Christianity. Having said that, it seems that the Islamic insistence (where it can) on the universal performance of its rituals and the equality of all performers in their submission to Allah mitigages strongly against finding ways to adapt to modern market society, as the inability to do much with the vast sums of petrodollars, and much else, suggests. truepeers— It's even easier to argue that curtailing the influence of Christianity as it actually existed in temporal life led to a political and social environment in which "The Great Transformation" was possible. Btw, have you read The Great Transformation? loner, I read parts of it, some time ago. Anyway, Polanyi is frequently discussed in Canada and so yes, I am quite sure I would not agree with many of his political positions or historical interpretations if that is what you are suggesting. That's not to forget that he correctly identified how radical the transformation was. But as for the power of Christianity in temporal life... How do you show that this power was essentially Christian? How do you point to the life and revelation of Christ to say everything the church did was "Christian" - surely you are not going to buy the church's line that it was, infallible. Some parts of the system of power were no doubt an articulation of Christian symbols, but shouldn't we acknowledge that there is something about all pre-modern "classical" civilizations that is shared in common, including certain kinds of hierarchies and authoratative understandings of the public scene, of which there is only conceivably one such scene shared in common in the classical world. This changes with the neoclassical revolution, with its privatization of the "public" imagination, in e.g. the creation of plays within plays. Sure, that neoclassical revolution was not simply about the unchaining of Christian personhood to roam the world free of the old church. It was as much a marriage of Christianity with Greek thought, and as I suggested above with Gnostic ideologies and sects of a Christian type. But how would any of this have been possible without the radicalizing nature of Christ's revelation? Could the Jews, say, have invented free market capitalism? Or would they always have been restrained by an ethical order that kept a check on the kind of radical personal morality that Christian self-sacrifice engenders? Of course the Jews adapted well to the free markeplace once it existed, just as did the theoreticians of the Enlightenment. But the Enlightenment was a way of codifying or theorizing what was already happening; it was largely a continental response to the expansion of the English-speaking world and market of the 17th and 18th centuries. The motive force for the free market came from the new protestant sects in tandem with neoclassicism. Is this last statement different from saying the motive force was the withdrawal of the Catholic church from temporal life? Not on the surface, but what is the core ethical or moral idea motivating both developments? truepeers— I'm just interested in where you get your rather unique, in my experience anyway, perspective on Christianity and its influence in the world. Polyani seemed a very unlikely source. I've not read The Great Transformation, but I've read about it from time to time through the years. What do you mean by neoclassical revolution? Best. Loner, my thinking on Christianity has been shaped by a few people - I'm not sure the current Pope would argue too much with what I've said. But most important to this argument is the work of Rene Girard and Eric Gans. If you want to spend a little time thinking through Gans' innovative paradigm for historical thought, you can find my argument here developed in Gans' book, Originary Thinking, the second half of which includes a tour de force of what he calls "esthetic history", which he divides into a few periods: classical, neoclassical (the Renaissance), romantic, late romantic, modern, postmodern. Each period is marked by how esthetic forms unfold signficantly new ethical revelations. Gans uses - I think it is in this book - the forever pausing Hamlet as an example of how the neoclassical (already anticipating the Romantic hero of bourgeois market society) transforms classical revenge tragedy through a new model of the deferral of violent desires, in part through the multiplication of meaningful public scenes (and their privatization in the individual imagination) as symbolized by Shakespeare's innovation of the play within a play. Hamlet is a kind of marriage of Christianity and classical tragedy - neoclassicism truepeers— I thought that was it, but it's been at least a year since I last looked through what I could find on Gans and Girard (whenever it was that I transcribed the story of Paul in Athens from The Bible at Roger's place) and thought it interesting insofar as it tries to answer some basic questions, but then I've been there before. Anthropology was my major and, though I was more interested in its hard science discipline, it was required that I do some course work in its social science disciplines. Hamlet lends itself so easily to interpretation. Being me, I used to use it fairly often as the explanation for Macbeth. People kept telling Shakespeare that Hamlet was very good and all and that they understood that he was working out issues arising from the death of his son, but that the story didn't make any sense and there wasn't enough blood or laughter to cover this defect so Shakespeare, finally fed up with all the carping, wrote Macbeth and said, "Now leave me alone and let me write what I like" or words to that effect. Macbeth is my favorite play. By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes. [Knock within] Open, locks, whoever knocks. Enter Macbeth Best. lol! Gans on Hamlet truepeers— Thanks. For what it's worth, I think the Franco Zefrelli-Mel Gibson adaptation of six years earlier superior to Branaugh's full-length version. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pitch and moment With this regard their currents turn awry, And lose the name of action. My one take on Hamlet that is possibly fairly original centers on the lines that end the most famous of the soliloquies. One of the concerns of the Renaissance was whether it was better to live a life devoted to thought or a life devoted to action. Shakespeare lived very close to the end of the question as a metaphysical concern and in the era where thought was definitively on the ascendant. It's possible to see Hamlet, in its entirety, as Shakespeare's commentary on the question. Best.

By Marin Katusa, Chief Energy Investment Strategist Risks abound in investing, with each investment arena offering its own flavors. The risks we face in the world of resource investing, though, are some of the most unpredictable out there. Resource companies navigate risks running from commodity price swings to taxation changes, from geologic uncertainties to the challenges of new technologies, from floods and tornadoes to labor unrest. Some of those risks and a host of others can be grouped under one heading: country risk. Resource investors share with realtors a focus on location, location, location, and for good reason: the best resource deposit in the world is only worth developing if the payout is greater than the cost. In the wrong location both of those numbers get skewed – government take can shrink payouts to almost nil while a long list of obstacles pushes costs up, up, and away. Of course, some of the countries with the highest levels of risk are home to fantastic resource potential (oil in Somalia, anyone?). As with all things in life, the decision whether to pursue that potential is a matter of mitigating risks enough so that they are outweighed by the potential for reward. It would take a Ph.D. thesis to examine country risk in its entirety. Instead, today I want to take you through a few examples of how country risk can create huge headaches for energy companies. Sometimes the headache is absolutely deserved, as payback for bad decisions in the past. Sometimes companies act with the best of intentions, but countries – driven by anything from greed to socialism – pull the rug out from underneath them. For the investor, the best way to approach country risk is with a truckload of knowledge, a boatload of patience, and a management team with proven risk management skills. If you have decided the potential reward is worth the risk, go for it. But prepare an exit strategy too, because when it comes to country risk situations change very quickly and problems can drag on for decades. [Editor's note: Marin Katusa, our chief energy investment strategist, will reveal more about mitigating risk in energy investing – as well as resource stocks that he believes offer explosive upside – at the Casey Research Recovery Reality Check Summit. Time's running short, but there are still a few seats available.] Risk-Reward Mayhem in the Niger Delta A recent headline sparked the idea for this article: Shell Sued in UK Over 'Massive' 2008 Nigerian Oil Spills. The Nigerian unit of Royal Dutch Shell, Europe's largest oil company, was recently sued in Britain by 11,000 Nigerians who say their land, rivers, and wetlands were spoiled by two oil spills in the Niger River Delta in 2008. The full story is so much more complicated than the headline implies. Oil was discovered in Nigeria's Delta region in the late 1950s. The leading multinationals in the play were Royal Dutch Shell and Chevron, who quietly supported the Nigerian government's appropriation of Delta lands to make room for oil development. In fact, a 1979 Constitutional amendment afforded the government full ownership of all Nigerian territory, enabling politicians to distribute lands to oil companies at will. It was bad enough that their lands were taken, but the people of the Niger Delta also had to face the fact that little if any of the wealth being drilled and piped across their homeland ever returned. In fact, living conditions across the Delta deteriorated through the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, as oil spills and rampant development wrecked the lands and waters that had provided so many livelihoods. By 1992, the first militant group developed in the Niger Delta. Several followed; they all targeted the Nigerian government and Royal Dutch Shell. Violence escalated quickly. In the summer of 1994 a military campaign to end the opposition to oil development razed dozens of villages, killed 2,000 people, and displaced 100,000 to refugee camps. In 1995, nine Delta activists who had been campaigning against Shell's activities were tried on trumped-up charges, found guilty, and hanged by then-dictator Sani Abacha. Shell claimed that it asked the Nigerian government for clemency toward the nine, but in 2001 two of the "witnesses" who had instigated the false charges admitted that Shell and the Nigerian military had bribed them. Shell later admitted to having given money to the military, which brutally silenced the voices clamoring for justice. The conflicts of the 1990s collided with increased availability of arms in the 2000s to create an even worse standoff in the Delta. Local and state officials began funding paramilitary groups working to advance one particular agenda or another. In 2005, Shell evacuated its personnel from Nigeria after the most aggressive militant group, NDPVF, declared "all-out war" on the federal government and the oil companies in the Delta. You see, it's a very complicated story. The war officially ended in 2009 when the government offered amnesty to militants who turned over their weapons, but rivalries between neighboring communities over their perceived rights to compensation or other oil-related revenues frequently boil over into violent conflict. And two aspects of the war – sabotage and bunkering – continue. In the seventeen-year war against Big Oil in the Niger Delta, militants routinely sabotaged drills, pumping stations, and pipelines to disrupt production. The frequency of these attacks has lessened since the amnesty program officially ended the war, but some militant groups continue in their quest to push Shell and other foreign companies out of the region. As for bunkering, that's the practice of tapping into pipelines to siphon off crude oil. The diverted oil is loaded onto barges and sold for profit, usually to destinations in West Africa but also abroad. Not only does the practice hurt Big Oil's bottom line, it is also very profitable. Bunkering is not a thing of the past – oil thefts from pipelines across the Delta remain a major problem for Shell and other companies operating there. Shell's head for sub-Saharan Africa, Ian Craig, said at a conference in Abuja last month that oil companies in Nigeria lose an estimated 150,000 barrels of oil a day to bunkering. Other industry experts peg the number much higher. With that backdrop in mind, we can return to the headline that started all of this: Shell being sued by Nigerians in London. The lawsuit was filed by residents of the coastal Bodo community after talks with Shell over two oil spills failed to produce an agreement. The failure is hardly surprising. Shell admitted responsibility for spilling a total of 40,000 barrels of oil in two leaks near Bodo in 2008 and 2009… a reasonably small set of spills. The Bodo claim Shell spilled 600,000 barrels of oil, more than twice the volume of oil spilled from the Exxon Valdez. The discrepancies between the estimates of the Bodo spills illustrate how difficult it is to get an accurate picture of what goes on in the remote wetlands of the Niger Delta. It is a region where millions of people – the population density in the Delta is among the highest in the world, with 265 people per square kilometer – scratch a living from subsistence farming or fishing and live in mud huts with no electricity. The poverty of the region stands in sharp contrast to the black gold flowing through its pipelines. Nigeria is the largest oil producer in Africa, producing 2.2 million barrels a day in 2009. The vast majority of that oil comes from the Delta. From that perspective, it is not surprising that militants and impoverished residents alike are driven to steal oil from those pipelines. It is also not surprising that Delta residents are adamant that Big Oil – and Shell in particular – should pay for the devastating damage inflicted on the Delta over the last 40 years… damage that has eroded their ability to live off the resources of their lands and waters. The damage is devastating. A UN report released last August says restoring the region would take 25 to 30 years. "The environmental restoration of Ogoniland could prove to be the world's most wide-ranging and long-term oil clean-up exercise ever undertaken if contaminated drinking water, lands, creeks, and important ecosystems such as mangroves are to the brought back to full, productive health," the report stated. UN investigators found at least ten communities where drinking water was contaminated with high levels of hydrocarbons, including the carcinogen benzene. Shell is willing to pay for the damage it caused, but the company is also adamant that it is not solely to blame. On the contrary: Shell says the vast majority of damage done to the Delta was wrought by Nigerians, who spilled oil every time they sabotaged a line or bunkered oil. In fact, Shell spokesman Jonathan French alleges that some Delta residents spilled oil on purpose, based on "the misguided belief that more oil spilled equals more compensation." The Bodo peoples retort that Shell uses the same line every time someone accuses them of spilling oil in the Delta. They say bunkering and sabotage are responsible for only 1% of the spilled oil. Shell is to blame, they say, and Shell should pay. The case is now before London's High Court, marking the first time Shell has faced claims in the UK over environmental damage in another country. The claimants seek hundreds of millions of British pounds in compensation. The case will be watched closely by everyone in the industry, because the ruling could set a precedent that impacts big claims against Western oil companies accused of polluting poor countries. And there are more than a few. Big Oil Battles in Ecuador and Brazil Let's briefly visit two other serious legal scenarios involving Big Oil and country risk. The first is also the most famous: the case of Texaco in Ecuador. This case has been going on for 18 years and is still not finalized. But the lesson is apparent: clean up your mess or pay. In 1964 Texaco (now Chevron) found oil in the remote northern region of the Ecuadorian Amazon, an area known as the Oriente. The indigenous inhabitants of the Oriente lived traditional lifestyles that remained largely untouched by modern civilization. Since no one had ever drilled for oil in the Amazon before, the Ecuadorian government largely trusted Texaco to employ best practices. It seems the trust was misplaced. Texaco's operations damaged the area so badly that it has been dubbed the "Rainforest Chernobyl." Aware the situation was deteriorating, Texaco left Ecuador in 1982, turning over all of its outdated operations to Petroecuador, which continued to pollute while slowly modernizing the infrastructure. As such, the oil-extraction process caused systematic pollution for almost three decades. They were caught off-guard when it happened, but by 1993 the inhabitants of the Oriente organized and started fighting back. They filed a class-action lawsuit against Texaco in 1993 in New York; in 2003 they re-filed the case in a Lago Agrio courtroom, after a US judge granted Texaco's request that the case be heard in Ecuador. In February 2011, Chevron was found guilty of massive environmental crimes in the Amazon and fined upwards of $18 billion. In January of this year an Ecuador appellate court confirmed the $18-billion judgment. The plaintiffs are now seeking to enforce the ruling in countries where Chevron has assets, since the company no longer has any in Ecuador. The case is unprecedented. It took 18 years, but the decision marks the first time indigenous people have won a judgment against a US company in a foreign court for environmental crimes. Chevron is still trying to wriggle its way out through Ecuador's appeal system, but it seems likely the company will have to pay at least part of the fine. The Texaco-in-Ecuador case is important for the scale of the damage, the size of the fine, and the endless international legal maneuvering involved. But the situation is also dated, much like the Shell-in-Nigeria situation. Today, we simply expect that oil companies will do a pretty good job of cleaning up after themselves, protecting the environment as much as possible, and taking care of local populations. For the most part, they do. It's all part of the risk-reward balance: by being good neighbors and business partners, oil companies reduce their country risk. Another good way to reduce country risk? Move offshore, where rigs are better insulated from oil theft and militancy, where there's no need to displace or even work adjacent to local populations, and where the ocean provides a buffer for any accidents. Shell, for example, is trying to sell several of its onshore Nigerian blocks in order to refocus offshore. Of course, offshore oil developments are far from foolproof. As we've written about before in these pages, Chevron is currently facing two lawsuits in Brazil – one criminal, one civil – related to a spill from its Frade operation off the coast of Brazil. The Chevron spill involved 2,400 to 3,000 barrels of oil, none of which reached the shoreline. The November spill may have been small, but federal prosecutors are determined to make a statement. In December, they laid down an $11-billion civil lawsuit against Chevron and its partners; in March they followed up with criminal charges against 17 Chevron and Transocean executives, charges that could result in lengthy jail terms and significant personal fines. To put the situation in context, Brazil is working to become one of the world's top oil producers after discovering offshore reserves over the last decade that hold some 50 billion barrels of oil. It is understandable that prosecutors want to ensure that the offshore resources are developed as carefully as possible. But legal charges of this severity over a relatively small spill could easily spook other big, foreign companies away from investing in Brazil, and Brazil certainly can't afford to develop the resource without foreign investment. To that end, several politicians have spoken out against the charges, including Senator Jorge Viana. In an interview with Reuters, Viana called the charges "excessive" and "irresponsible." He also said the charges "create a climate of insecurity" that could damage badly needed investment in the oil sector. Concluding, he said that if both suits were held up and applied to other polluters, "the industry would shut down." Finding the Balance Working in a foreign country is always risky. Sometimes companies create their own risk, as Texaco did in Ecuador when it failed to protect the lands and waters where it worked. Sometimes risk comes out of nowhere, as it did when Brazil announced its lawsuits against Chevron. And sometimes risk and reward both weigh so heavily that it is nearly impossible to find the balance point, as is the case in Nigeria's Delta region. While much-strengthened environmental oversight should prevent another travesty on the scale of the Texaco-in-Ecuador situation, the rules for country risk still apply. Companies operating in other countries have to be diligent in their risk management. If they are not and if they make mistakes, it will come back to haunt them. For their part, countries have to find a balance as well: they have to balance their desires for oil wealth, social peace, environmental protection, and economic development. It is not an easy balancing act. For investors, the most important message is: never downplay country risk. Even stable, resource-friendly, First-World countries have made abrupt changes to resource laws that threw companies under the bus. The Canadian province of Labrador, for example, suddenly enacted a moratorium on uranium development in 2008, annihilating the handful of companies exploring the region's reasonably abundant uranium resources. Every country has its risks and every company has its risk-management methods. As an investor, you have to know your risk tolerance and ascertain whether the company you're considering has what it takes to survive in the country in question. Those equations always involve a lot of variables and unknowns and demand a fair bit of informed guesswork. It is one of the trickiest aspects of resource investing, but also one of the most important. The potential rewards of resource investing are necessarily paired with these risks, and finding that balance is what I do every day. Total Mulls Options to Put Out North Sea Flare (Reuters) France's Total is consider a wide range of plans, including a helicopter water drop, to extinguish a flare on its Elgin North Sea gas platform that is leaking explosive clouds of gas. The flare was lit as part of evacuation proceedings to relieve pressure in the abandoned rig, but it cannot be turned off remotely and could ignite the gas plumes pumping out of the rig. Authorities have praised Total's handling of the leak, which is one of the biggest in the North Sea in decades. It started on Sunday, March 25 and forced the evacuation of all 238 platform workers. It appears the leak is causing minimal environmental damage. Japan Easing Limits, Allowing up to 16,000 Evacuees to Visit Homes Inside Nuclear No-Go Zone (Washington Post) For the first time since the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster, Japanese authorities are allowing up to 16,000 people to visit the homes they were forced to abandon. They won't be allowed to stay overnight, and some will have to wear protective gear, but it is nevertheless a crucial step in the plan to permanently resettle towns within the 20-km zone around the reactor complex. Before the earthquake and tsunami devastated the plant and cause meltdowns in three reactors, the area was home to 100,000 people. It is not clear home many people will return to their homes. Enbridge Venture Plans Pipes to Gulf as Keystone Blocked (Bloomberg) Enbridge and Enterprise Products Partners, who co-own the recently reversed Seaway pipeline that now carries crude oil from Oklahoma to the Gulf Coast as well as the Flanagan pipeline connecting Illinois and Oklahoma, have received enough commitment from shippers to start planning an expansion of both lines. With questions still swirling over the Keystone pipeline, Illinois and Oklahoma desperately need new pipes to move crude oil south because increasing production in the Bakken and in Canada's oil sands have swamped the refining and transportation capacity in the oil-hub area. Enbridge and Enterprise are planning to increase Flanagan's capacity to 585,000 barrels per day at a cost of $2.8 billion while doubling capacity on the Seaway line to 850,000 daily barrels. Iran Sanctions Fuel "Junk for Oil" Barter with China, India (Financial Post) Iran and its leading oil buyers, China and India, are finding ways to skirt US and EU sanctions on the Islamic Republic by agreeing to trade oil for local currencies and goods, including wheat, soybean meal, and consumer products. Iran is reportedly also seeking to trade oil for wheat from Pakistan and Russia. The tactic works because sanctions target Iran's ability to participate in the global financial system, and barter deals themselves don't violate the sanctions. However, while providing a steady flow of food goods, the bartering situation is leaving Iran short on hard currency to prop up the plummeting value of its currency, the rial. Moreover, Iran can only use so much wheat and soybean meal. Turkey Cuts 20% of Oil Purchases from Iran (Financial Times) Turkey is slashing its Iranian oil purchases by 20%, becoming Tehran's last big client to fall in line with US sanctions. Until the announcement, Turkey was the only big buyer of Iranian oil that had not announced a cut in imports. In fact, in recent weeks Ankara has repeatedly insisted that it is not bound by unilateral US sanctions and the announcement came one day after the Turkish prime minister visited Iran, when the two countries reaffirmed their goal of strengthening economic ties. With all of Iran's major customers now having reducing their purchases, oil production in the country has dropped to a ten-year low. Tapping Oil Stockpiles a Risky Proposition (The Globe and Mail) Four governments – the US, Britain, France, and Japan – are considering releasing oil from their emergency stockpiles to temper high fuel prices, but most observers agree that the impact of such a move would be short-lived. Moreover, releases would deplete the very stockpiles those countries would need if Iran follows up on its threats to choke off global oil exports by blockading the Strait of Hormuz. Oil Discovered in Kenya for First Time (The Globe and Mail) Despite bordering two countries – Uganda and South Sudan – that boast significant oil resources, Kenya had never found oil within its lands… that is, until now. A well being drilled in Kenya near the Ugandan border by partners Tullow Oil and Africa Oil hit 20 meters of net oil pay. The partners will now test a series of other targets nearby. Company spokespeople and Kenyan politicians were careful to emphasize that Kenya still has to travel a long, pot-holed road to become a producer, but the discovery is nevertheless exciting. Oil Groups to Explore Off Uruguay (Financial Times) Hoping to discover oil riches like those in neighboring Brazil, Uruguay has awarded eight exploration blocks to BP and BG of Britain, Total of France, and Ireland's Tullow Oil. The companies committed to total exploration investments of $1.5 billion, which will cover extensive seismic and electromagnetic studies, plus at least one deepwater well. Natural Gas Hovers Near Ten-Year Low (Bloomberg) Heading for the worst quarter in two years, natural-gas futures have been fluctuating near a ten-year low as record production and a mild winter conspired to push stockpiles to 59% above the five-year average. Speculators are now suggesting prices may have found a bottom. Register to get Casey Daily Dispatch delivered to your inbox every day for free. By submitting this order or request, you agree to our Terms & Conditions of Use

She dressed carefully, as if looking nice still mattered to her on that autumn day two and a half years ago. She got up and put on her outfit: underwear and hosiery, then a black skirt and a black blouse. She applied makeup and clasped two necklaces around her neck: one, a string of black pearls separated by small gold-colored beads; the other, a set of white pearls. They weren’t real pearls, just decent-looking fakes, but they carried out the black-and-white theme of her attire so nicely that you can almost imagine her thoughtfully selecting them from the tangle of a jewelry box. And then there were her shoes—Easy Spirit walkers. Comfortable favorites of countless sixtysomething women like her, and nice quality, but worn and certainly not chic. What she did after she dabbed on her makeup and tied her Easy Spirits is a cipher. Her narrative disappears for a while, until the moment her body smacked into the Ohio River so hard purple bruises spread across the porcelain skin of her chest and her lungs slapped against her ribs like ripe fruit in a runaway grocery cart. And that’s where her story ended, or at least the part of it that she controlled. What’s left now is a mystery—who she was, how she died, and with whom she belongs. Ever since that cold day in late autumn when she was fished out of the Ohio River, this woman’s body—dubbed “the River Lady” by some—has been kept at the Hamilton County morgue in the hope that she can be returned to family and friends for burial, restoring to her some scrap of dignity. This has proved to be surprisingly difficult. The River Lady must have been someone in life; must have had relatives, no matter how distant, or neighbors, no matter how unfriendly, who will realize they haven’t seen or heard from her in ages, who might see her picture in the newspaper and gasp, “Isn’t that...?” But for now, the only thing that’s kept her from becoming Nobody are the efforts of the people around her: Total strangers who are treating her like someone, who are trying to give her a name. Around 1 p.m. on November 29, 2006, a driver making a delivery in North Bend spotted something in the Ohio River: the backside of a woman floating just off shore. The fire department assisted in the recovery, laying planks in the shallow water and walking out on the sand bar where her body was stuck. They brought her back in a rescue basket dripping with the river’s detritus and set her on the bank, where Hamilton County Detective Ken Schweinefus; Hamilton County’s then–deputy coroner Michael Kenny; and Nancy Woolum, an investigator from the coroner’s office, got their first look at her. She was about five-foot-two and perhaps 60 years old. Her teeth, crooked and chipped, implied a certain amount of personal neglect. But she was wearing makeup, her short gray hair was highlighted, and her clothes and jewelry suggested that she took care of herself—or that someone looked after her. There are several ways you can end up deceased in the river. You can jump in, you can fall in, or you can be shoved in, dead or alive. An on-the-spot examination suggested to investigators that foul play was unlikely, and eventually the sheriff’s office released information about the body of a white female, aged 55-65, found in the river in the vicinity of North Bend. Typically, on CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, the mother of all forensic cop shows, who a decedent was and how they came to be dead is sorted out by the second commercial break. In real life, it takes time. The next morning, Ken Schweinefus joined Michael Kenny at the morgue, looking for clues to the who and the how. “Part of my job when I go to the autopsy is to observe if there are certain characteristics—tattoos, scars, anything that may help us get this female identified,” Schweinefus explains. He and Kenny searched the landscape of her body before the first cut was made. “We found nothing,” the detective says. The rest of the procedure was only slightly more revealing. Most bodies that go into the river sink then reemerge days later, bloated and buoyed by the gases of decomposition. And often, by the time they’re recovered, they’ve been knocked around by barges and gnawed by turtles. But the River Lady was spared those indignities; she wasn’t particularly bloated or battered, so she hadn’t been in the water too long—less than two days, maybe less than one. The bruises on her chest and her lungs indicated trauma; so did her broken ribs—injuries consistent with a fall from a high structure, Kenny told the detective. But none of these were sufficient to end her life, and ultimately Kenny listed drowning as the cause of death. Suicide, is that what you’re thinking? A horrifying swan dive off a bridge upriver? That’s a possible scenario, but not a scientific finding. The coroner’s report lists Manner of Death as “undetermined.” Her demise might be suicide, homicide, or accidental. It certainly wasn’t natural. Schweinefus notified law enforcement agencies in the area as well as NCIC—the National Crime Information Center, a database maintained by the Federal Bureau of Information. Her fingerprints went into IAFIS—the FBI’s Integrated Automated Fingerprint Information System—but there was no match. Whatever the River Lady had done in life, it hadn’t caused her to be entered into that electronic warehouse of miscreants. The coroner’s office stored her DNA, a forensic dentist charted her teeth and dental work, and Woolum began her own investigation, sharing information with Schweinefus. There were two local leads that seemed like real possibilities, but both women were found alive. “That makes it good for the families,” says Woolum. But it didn’t help the River Lady. The two investigators puzzled over the scant clues they had, trying to construct a window into the woman’s life. With the black clothes and the comfy shoes, Woolum thought she might be a waitress; Schweinefus speculated she was an office worker who put on Easy Spirits to walk to lunch. But if either of those things were the case, wouldn’t her boss have looked around and said, “Hey, where’s…?” That simply didn’t happen. Here’s what it looks like, says Woolum: “No one is missing her.” Since he started trying to unravel the mystery of the River Lady, Schweinefus has gotten inquiries from police jurisdictions searching for aging white females from as far away as Alabama and Texas. “It just amazes me how many missing people there are out there,” he says. In January 2007, the U.S. Department of Justice’s National Institute of Justice Journal estimated that, on any given day, there are as many as 100,000 active missing person cases in the country. Presumably, some of them would correspond with the 40,000 sets of anonymous human remains the journal estimates are held in the nation’s medical examiners’ evidence rooms. Many states have official Web site clearinghouses to publicize “missings” and “unidentifieds” online, but there are also an abundance of independent Web sites, blogs, and forums put together by ordinary citizens interested in—some would say obsessed with—solving such cases. One of the most well-regarded citizen-run sites is the Doe Network (), which keeps the stories of unidentified deceased adults in the public eye. The site provides a place where those who’ve lost someone can pore over information from all over North America, and where amateur sleuths can look for clues. Although the phrase “amateur sleuth” is misleading. Since the Doe Network’s inception in the late 1990s, 40 bodies have been identified with its assistance. As I worked on this story, investigators talked about using it almost as often as they referred to the FBI’s NCIC database. “We’ve had to build relationships with law enforcement,” says Todd Matthews, a Doe Network administrator, “and we’ve done really well with that.” The 38-year-old automotive quality auditor from Livingston, Tennessee, is one of the network’s founders. Shortly after he got married, at 18, he became fascinated with the story of a woman his father-in-law had discovered near Georgetown, Kentucky, in 1968. Known as the Tent Girl (her partially-decomposed body had been wrapped in a canvas tarp), she was buried in the Georgetown Cemetery. Matthews was moved by the story; a small-town guy who valued family and friends, he could only imagine the torment of the people who’d been this nameless girl’s relatives. With the help of the Internet, Matthews’s interest turned to a major preoccupation. He scoured bulletin boards, chat rooms, public forums—anyplace people were discussing lost individuals. In 1998, he surfed his way to an Arkansas woman named Rosemary Westbrook who was looking for an older sister who hadn’t been heard from in 30 years. Matthews gathered information from the family and took his suspicions to Emily Craig, Kentucky’s highly regarded forensic anthropologist and author of Teasing Secrets from the Dead, who ordered the Tent Girl’s body be exhumed. DNA confirmed that the Tent Girl was Westbrook’s lost sister, Barbara Ann Hackman-Taylor; Barbara Ann’s deceased husband is now suspected to have been her killer. Some of the people who helped develop the Doe Network were self-taught detectives like Matthews, and some were people in a desperate search to find lost loved ones. What they all recognized was that there needed to be a way to make accurate information about cases available—not just to law enforcement, but to the public as well. “I could never explain the relationship I had with the Tent Girl,” Matthews says. In his compulsion to solve her mystery, the anonymous woman became family to him—which means he also projected a not-entirely-helpful fanaticism when he was trying to convince police that he’d figured out her identity. “I became ‘that screwball,’” he says. Today, his feet firmly planted on the ground, he often speaks to college classes about his work and handles sensitive information that comes into the network—crime tips that police will ask him to hold in confidence. Sometimes he finds himself working with a young officer who has never used a DNA collection kit, or a sheriff in a rural district who has never issued a disinter order, and he can steer them through the process. “Experience takes you a long way in lieu of education,” he says. Last year, two half-century-old cold cases heated up with the possibility that a body in Georgia and a long-lost Miami University student were the same. In 2005, Butler County Sheriff’s commander of cold case homicide, Frank Smith, was going over the slim file on Ronald Tammen Jr., a 19-year-old Miami sophomore who had vanished from his Oxford dorm in April 1953. Smith realized the information was so old it had never been put online. “By the time the NCIC system and the Doe Network came about,” Smith says, “Tammen was forgotten.” So Smith entered Tammen into the world of electronic sleuthing. Fast forward to 2008: Mike Freeman, a sheriff’s detective in Walker County, Georgia, was doing a routine case review when he pulled out a file for an unidentified decedent—a young man found in the woods near LaFayette, Georgia, in July 1953. “I’m not an Internet guru,” Freeman says, but it didn’t take too many keystrokes to arrive at the story of Ron Tammen. Freeman called Smith and they swapped details: Tammen was five-foot-ten and weighed 175; athletic, talented, and popular, he was enrolled in the Navy ROTC Program at Miami. The LaFayette body was badly decomposed when it was found, but according to records, the man was five-foot-nine, weighed 155 to 160, and was wearing military-issue socks, shorts, and T-shirt. Granted, Oxford and northeast Georgia are distant, but as Freeman points out, “our body was 200 yards off of Highway 27”—a main thoroughfare that runs through southwest Ohio, too. Fortunately the LaFayette body had been buried, not cremated. Smith located Tammen’s sister Marcia and obtained a DNA sample from her. Then last February, Freeman and Smith watched as a rickety, rotting wooden casket was lifted from a 55-year-old Georgia grave. There wasn’t much left of the body—just some teeth and bits of femur—but the FBI’s Quantico crime lab succeeded in extracting DNA, and the results were compared to Marcia Tammen’s. And that’s where the lucky breaks ended: the two weren’t a match. Wherever Ron Tammen went that night in 1953, he did not end up in the Georgia woods. It sounds like a failure on two fronts, but neither detective seems to feel that way. Freeman now has a DNA profile that can be used with other possible matches; if he hadn’t followed the Tammen red herring, that wouldn’t exist. “It really did start the ball rolling,” agrees Smith, who is now actively working on the case. He’s tracked down and interviewed men—now in their mid-70s—who were in the dorm that night. Using the Freedom of Information Act, Smith has also pried loose from the FBI a 1954 report investigating whether Tammen was a draft evader. And Tammen’s DNA—that is, the DNA from his sister—is filed with NCIC and the FBI’s Combined DNA Index System, or CODIS, a database of convicted offenders. If Tammen is still alive and if he does something to land his genetic material there, “sooner or later we’ll find out,” Smith says. DNA is a police tool that wasn’t even a blip on the science fiction radar screen when Tammen went missing. “If there’s a way of ever solving this,” says Smith, “that’s the way I think it will be solved.” There are laws about reporting and investigating missing children and a well-developed national system for doing so. But here’s the complicated thing about lost adults such as the River Lady. As Hamilton County Coroner O’dell Owens points out, sometimes they don’t want to be found, and sometimes no one knows to look for them. It may be irresponsible when a young man hitchhikes across the country without calling his mother, but it’s not illegal. Or perhaps a relative is involved in drugs or prostitution. “[Families may] assume they’re alive, but they have no desire to track them down,” Owens says. A woman running from an abusive spouse might leave without telling her friends; an Alzheimer’s patient living alone might wander off in a fog of dementia. And if any of them turn up in a morgue without identification, “They’re individuals no one is looking for,” Owens says. “That’s the sad part.” “TV shows give such a false idea,” he adds. In a television drama, every human being seems to be in some sort of databank; a coroner simply has to put in a DNA sample and “it pops up a picture,” he says. Setting aside the fact that extracting DNA from tissue is a complex process and that genetic analysis, as Owens says, “doesn’t give you a picture; it gives you graphs to start with,” there’s the matter of that magical repository where every missing person and every unidentified body are on file. That doesn’t exist, at least not at this point. But it’s closer to being a reality— thanks, in part, to Debbie Culberson. I visited with Culberson earlier this year. It was the second time I’d been inside her pleasant home in Blanchester, about 35 miles east of Cincinnati. The first time was 13 years ago, after her 22-year-old daughter, Carrie, disappeared. Since then, an extraordinary trial sent Vincent Doan, Carrie’s boyfriend, to jail for her murder; the Culberson family won a wrongful death suit against the village of Blanchester for the police chief’s handling of the investigation; and Carrie’s story has been featured from Court TV to A&E. But what did not change in Culberson’s life is this: No one called to say, “We have found Carrie’s body.” So she set out to do that herself. In her conversations with police and coroners, Culberson learned that an unidentified body might be cremated instead of buried, or bones might simply be stored in an evidence room. “I said, ‘You mean to tell me you don’t have to test these remains or anything?’” she recalls. “I realized my daughter could be sitting in a box on a shelf someplace and I’ll never know it.” Eight years ago, she took her frustration to then-Rep. Steve Chabot. Chabot, a veteran of the House Judiciary Committee, understood what she was talking about because he’d worked with groups such as the National Organization of Parents of Murdered Children on similar issues. “Her idea was, there are thousands of missing people and thousands of unidentified remains,” Chabot recalls. “Why not a national database and regulations about using new technology to help I.D. remains and match them with the missing?” In 2006, Culberson and the Doe Network’s Todd Matthews found themselves in the middle of an effort to do just that when the U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of Justice Programs began developing NamUs—the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (). Both have been advisors in planning the system, which went live in December, and remain involved with it now. Two searchable databases make up NamUs—one for missing persons, one for unidentified decedents. Each entry contains as much information as is available about the case, from dental records to date of birth to snapshots of class rings and moles. If fingerprints are available, they’ll be on file; so will DNA information. But the big advantage of NamUs over existing government systems is that anyone can use it. From the very beginning, says Kevin Lothridge, executive director of the National Forensic Science Technology Center, which developed NamUs for the government, “that was the tenet that drove this.” Police and FBI can access the system; so can a frantic Manhattan mother whose son has disappeared in Alaska. “Thousands of eyes can help everyone,” Lothridge says. The system is set up to restrict the general public from certain kinds of information (grisly photos, for example). But beyond that, it’s as user-friendly as possible, because the users are essential to its success. You’re trying to find out what happened to your mom’s hippie sister who vanished during the Summer of Love? You can add her to the system. You found a picture of the backpack your brother used when he vanished in the Rockies? You can have it posted. You want to put together a flyer to publicize his disappearance? With a click, NamUs can do that, too. It’s still early days for the program. Unidentifieds have to be added by medical examiners and coroners (there were only about 3,700 of them available in the system as this article was being written). The missing persons’ section lists about 1,300, but many more are in the process of being vetted before being placed online. It will take time, and it may take some cajoling, too, because law enforcement is not mandated to use the site. Later this year, the Web site will launch a new feature: the “lost” and “found” databases will automatically search one another to pair corresponding details—fingerprints, dental records, hair color, location, circumstances, et cetera. Which means that somewhere in cyberspace, the missing and the dead could meet their matches. “Here it is,” says Debbie Culberson. “Found December 29, 1996. St. Joseph County, Indiana. Partial skeleton. Height and weight estimated.” She’s showing me a NamUs listing for a white female. “Brown hair. Dental record.” She has seen this entry before; she says Emily Craig, Kentucky’s forensic anthropologist, compared this woman’s dental record with Carrie’s. The teeth didn’t match. “But I don’t know the last dentist that Carrie saw,” she says. And since this Jane Doe has a DNA profile on file at CHI—the Center for Human Identification at the University of North Texas—and so does Carrie, she has asked for a comparison. About the same time that Culberson began rattling cages in Washington, D.C., in her search for Carrie, the government was realizing that the nation’s law enforcement agencies had a huge backlog of unanalyzed DNA samples and biological evidence—a problem made clear when the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center overwhelmed America’s forensic resources. To address that—and to maximize the use of DNA in crime-solving—the federal government funded the $1 billion DNA Initiative to pay for, among other things, DNA tests for any law enforcement agency that needs them. The highly regarded CHI is one of the programs supported by the DNA Initiative. The staff there, Culberson says, is “awesome.” Plenty of people involved in NamUs would probably say the same about her. Today she’s a regional case manager for NamUs, checking data about other people’s lost loved ones, gently prodding cops and coroners to update records, posting pictures and fingerprints. Thirteen years ago, when she started looking for her daughter, she consulted psychics; now she believes in the cosmic power of the Internet and has faith in scientists’ ability to unlock the secrets of desiccated bones. These things, she says, “may be the only way I can find Carrie.” This winter, the Hamilton County Coroner’s office was preparing to add the River Lady to the NamUs system. Details about her—race, height, weight, the sad scenario of her discovery—will be put in, along with her DNA profile, her fingerprints, dental records, photos of her belongings, and a sketch of what she could have looked like in life: a pleasant women who might have poured your coffee, sat next to you in church, shared your seat on the bus. Once she’s there and the whole world can look, maybe someone will see her and gasp, “Look, it’s…” Or maybe a computer will. Originally published in the March 2009 issue.

pg_comparator - efficient table content comparison and synchronization pg_comparator [options as --help --option --man] conn1 conn2 This script performs a network and time efficient comparison or synchronization of two possibly large tables in PostgreSQL, MySQL or SQLite databases, so as to detect inserted, updated or deleted tuples between these tables. The algorithm is efficient especially if the expected differences are relatively small. The implementation is quite generic: multi-column keys (but there must be a key!), no assumption of data types other that they can be cast to text, subset of columns can be used for the comparison, handling of NULL values... This script focuses on the comparison algorithm, hence the many options. The fact that it may do anything useful, such as checking that a replication tool does indeed replicates your data, or such as synchronizing tables, is a mere side effect. Options allow to request help or to adjust some internal parameters. Short one-letter options are also available, usually with the first letter of the option name. --aggregate=(sum|xor)or -a (sum|xor) Aggregation function to be used for summaries, either xor or sum. It must operate on the result of the checksum function. For PostgreSQL and SQLite, the xor aggregate needs to be loaded. There is a signed/unsigned issue on the key hash when using xor for comparing tables on MySQL or SQLite vs PostgreSQL. We provide a new ISUM aggregate for SQLite because both SUM and TOTAL do some incompatible handling of integer overflows. Default is sum because it is available by default and works in mixed mode. --ask-pass Ask for passwords interactively. See also --env-pass option below. Default is not to ask for passwords. --asynchronousor -A, --no-asynchronousor -X Whether to run asynchronous queries. This provides some parallelism, however the two connections are more or less synchronized per query. Default is to use asynchronous queries to enable some parallelism. --checksum-computation=(create|insert)or --cc=... How to create the checksum table. Use create to use a CREATE ... AS SELECT ... query, or insert to use a CREATE ...; INSERT ... SELECT ... query. The former will require an additional counting to get the table size, so in the end there are two queries anyway. There is a type size issue with the insert strategy on MySQL, the cumulated key string length must be under 64 bytes. Default is create because it always works for both databases. --checksum-function=funor --cf=funor -c fun Checksum function to use, either ck or md5. For PostgreSQL, MySQL and SQLite the provided ck checksum functions must be loaded into the target databases. Choosing md5 does not come free either: the provided cast functions must be loaded into the target databases and the computation is more expensive. Default is ck, which is faster, especially if the operation is cpu-bound and the bandwidth is reasonably high. --checksum-size=nor --check-size=nor --cs=nor -z n Tuple checksum size, must be 2, 4 or 8 bytes. The key checksum size is always 4 bytes long. Default is 8, so that the false negative probability is very low. There should be no reason to change that. --cleanup Drop checksum and summary tables beforehand. Useful after a run with --no-temp and --no-clear, typically used for debugging. Default is not to drop because it is not needed. --clear Drop checksum and summary tables explicitly after the computation. Note that they are dropped implicitly by default when the connection is closed as they are temporary, see -(-no)-temporary option. This option is useful for debugging. Default is not to clear explicitely the checksum and summary tables, as it is not needed. --debugor -d Set debug mode. Repeat for higher debug levels. See also --verbose. Beware that some safe gards about option settings are skipped under debug so as to allow testing under different conditions. Default is not to run in debug mode. --env-pass='var' Take password from environment variables var1, var2 or var for connection one, two, or both. This is tried before asking interactively if --ask-pass is also set. Default is not to look for passwords from environment variables. --expect nor Total number of differences to expect (updates, deletes and inserts). This option is only used for non regression tests. See the TESTS section. --folding-factor=7or -f 7 Folding factor: log2 of the number of rows grouped together at each stage, starting from the leaves so that the first round always groups as many records as possible. The power of two allows to use masked computations. The minimum value of 1 builds a binary tree. Default folding factor log2 is 7, i.e. size 128 folds. This default value was chosen after some basic tests on medium-size cases with medium or low bandwidth. Values from 4 to 8 should be a reasonable choice for most settings. --helpor -h Show short help. --key-checksum='kcs'or --kcs=... Use key checksum attribute of this name, which must be already available in the tables to compare. This option also requires option --tuple-checksum. See also the EXAMPLES section below for how to set a checksum trigger. Consider --use-key instead if you already have a reasonably distributed integer primary key. Default is to build both key and tuple checksums on the fly. --lock, --no-lock Whether to lock tables. Setting the option explicitely overrides the default one way or another. For PostgreSQL, this option requires --transaction, which is enabled by default. Default depends on the current operation: the table is not locked for a comparison, but it is locked for a synchronization. --long-read-len=0or -L 0 Set max size for fetched binary large objects. Well, it seems to be ignored at least by the PostgreSQL driver. Default is to keep the default value set by the driver. --manor -m Show manual page interactively in the terminal. --max-ratio=0.1 Maximum relative search effort. The search is stopped if the number of results is above this threshold expressed relatively to the table size. Use 2.0 for no limit (all tuples were deleted and new ones are inserted). Default is 0.1, i.e. an overall 10% difference is allowed before giving up. --max-report=n Maximum absolute search effort. The search is stopped if the number of differences goes beyond this threshold. If set, the previous --max-ratio option is ignored, otherwise the effort is computed with the ratio once the table size is known. Default is to compute the maximum number of reported differences based on the --max-ratio option, with a mimimum of 100 differences allowed. --max-levels=0 Maximum number of levels used. Allows to cut-off folding. 0 means no cut-off. Setting a value of 1 would only use the checksum table, without summaries. A value of 3 or 4 would be raisonable, as the last levels of the tree are nice for the theoretical complexity formula, but do not improve performance in practice. Default is 0. --null='text' How to handle NULL values. Either hash to hash all values, where NULL has one special hash value, or text where NULL values are substituted by the NULL string. Default is text because it is faster. --optionor -o Show option summary. --pg-copy=128 Experimental option to use PostgreSQL's COPY instead of INSERT/UPDATE when synchronizing, by chunks of the specified size. --prefix='pgc_cmp' Name prefix, possibly schema qualified, used for generated comparison tables by appending numbers to it. Consider changing the prefix if you expect several comparisons to run concurrently agains the same database. Default is pgc_cmp. Cheksum tables is named pgc_cmp_1_0 and pgc_cmp_2_0, and summary tables are named by increasing the last number. --no-report Report differing keys to stdout as they are found. Default is to report. --separator='|'or -s '|' Separator string or character used when concatenating key columns for computing checksums. Defaults to the pipe '|' character. --size=n Assume this value as the table size. It is sufficient for the algorithm to perform well that this size is in the order of magnitude of the actual table size. Default is to query the table sizes, which is skipped if this option is set. --source-1='DBI:...', --source-2='...'or -1 '...', -2 '...' Take full control of DBI data source specification and mostly ignore the comparison authentication part of the source or target URLs. One can connect with "DBI:Pg:service=backup", use an alternate driver, set any option allowed by the driver... See DBD::Pg and DBD:mysql manuals for the various options that can be set through the DBI data source specification. However, the database server specified in the URL must be consistent with this source specification so that the queries' syntax is the right one. Default is to rely on the two URL arguments. --stats=(txt|csv) Show various statistics about the comparison performed in this format. Also, option --stats-name gives the test a name, useful to generate csv files that will be processed automatically. Default is not to show statistics, because it requires additional synchronizations and is not necessarily interesting to the user. --synchronizeor -S Actually perform operations to synchronize the second table wrt the first. Well, not really, it is only a dry run. It is actually done if you add --do-it or -D. Save your data before attempting anything like that! Default is not to synchronize. --temporary, --no-temporary Whether to use temporary tables. If you don't, the tables are kept by default at the end, so they will have to be deleted by hand. See --clear option to request a cleanup. This option is useful for debugging. Default is to use temporary tables that are automatically wiped out when the connection is closed. --unlogged, --no-unlogged Use unlogged tables for storing checksums. These tables are not transactional, so it may speed up things a little. However, they are not automatically cleaned up at the end. See --clear option to request a cleanup. Default is not to use unlogged tables. --threadsor -T, --no-threadsor -N Highly EXPERIMENTAL feature. Try to use threads to perform computations in parallel, with some hocus-pocus because perl thread model does not really work well with DBI. Perl threads are rather heavy and slow, more like communicating processes than light weight threads, really. This does NOT work at all with PostgreSQL. It works partially with MySQL, at the price of turning off --transaction. Default is not to use threads, as it does not work for all databases. --timeout n Timeout comparison after n seconds. Default is no timeout. Be patient. --transaction, --no-transaction Whether to wrap the whole algorithm in a single transaction. Default is to use a wrapping transaction, as it seems to be both faster and safer to do so. --tuple-checksum='tcs'or --tcs=... Use tuple checksum attribute of this name, which must be already available in the tables to compare. This option requires to set also either --use-key or --key-checksum=... above. The provided checksum attributes must not appear in the lists of key and value columns. See also the EXAMPLES section below for how to set a checksum trigger. Default is to build both key and tuple checksums on the fly. --use-keyor -u Whether to directly use the value of the key to distribute tuples among branches. The key must be simple, integer, not NULL, and evenly distributed. If you have a reasonably spread integer primary key, consider using this option to avoid half of the checksum table hash computations. Default is to hash the key, so as to handle any type, composition and distribution. --use-null, --no-use-null Whether to use the information that a column is declared NOT NULL to simplify computations by avoiding calls to COALESCE to handle NULL values. Default is to use this information, at the price of querying table metadata. --verboseor -v Be verbose about what is happening. The more you ask, the more verbose. Default is to be quiet, so that possible warnings or errors stand out. --versionor -V Show version information and exit. --where=... SQL boolean condition on table tuples for partial comparison. Useful to reduce the load if you know that expected differences are in some parts of your data, say those time-stamped today... The same condition is passed on both sides, so both tables must be pretty similar so that it works. This is usually the case. Default is to compare whole tables. The two arguments describe database connections with the following URL-like syntax, where square brackets denote optional parts. Many parts are optional with a default. The minimum syntactically correct specification is /, but that does not necessary mean anything useful. [driver://][login[:pass]@][host][:port]/[base/[[schema.]table[?key[:cols]]]] See the EXAMPLES section bellow, and also the --source-* options above. Note that some default value used by DBI drivers may be changed with driver-specific environment variables, and that DBI also provides its own defaults and overrides, so what actually happens may not always be clear. Default values for the second URL are mostly taken from the first URL. Database driver to use. Use pgsql for PostgreSQL, mysql for MySQL, sqlite for SQLite. Heterogeneous databases may be compared and synchronized, however beware that subtle typing, encoding and casting issues may prevent heterogeneous comparisons or synchronizations to succeed. Default is pgsql for the first connection, and same as first for second. For SQLite, the authentication part of the URL (login, pass, host, port) is expected to be empty, thus the full URL should look like: sqlite:///base.db/table?key,col:other,columns Moreover, setting the PGC_SQLITE_LOAD_EXTENSION environment variable with :-separated shared object files loads these into SQLite. Login to use when connecting to database. Default is username for first connection, and same as first connection for second. Password to use when connecting to database. Note that it is a bad idea to put a password as a command argument. Default is none for the first connection, and the same password as the first connection for the second if the connection targets the same host, port and uses the same login. See also --ask-pass and --env-pass options. Hostname or IP to connect to. Default is the empty string, which means connecting to the database on localhost with a UNIX socket. TCP-IP port to connect to. Default is 5432 for PostgreSQL and 3306 for MySQL. Database catalog to connect to. Default is username for first connection. Default is same as first connection for second connection. For SQLite, provide the database file name. The path is relative by default, but can be made absolute by prepending an additional '/': sqlite:////var/cache/sqlite/base.db/table?... The possibly schema-qualified table to use for comparison. No default for first connection. Default is same as first connection for second connection. Note that MySQL does not have schemas, but strangely enough their database concept is just like a schema, so MySQL really does not have databases, although there is something of that name. Am I clear? Comma-separated list of key columns. Default is table primary key for first connection. Default is same as first connection for second connection. The key cannot be empty. If you do not have a way of identifying your tuples, then there is no point in looking for differences. Comma-separated list of columns to compare. May be empty. Default is all columns but keys for first connection. Default is same as first connection for second connection. Beware that ...?key: means an empty cols, while ...?key sets the default by querying table metadata. Compare tables calvin and hobbes in database family on localhost, with key id and columns c1 and c2: ./pg_comparator /family/calvin?id:c1,c2 /family/hobbes Compare tables calvin in default database on localhost and the same table in default database on sablons, with key id and column data: ./pg_comparator localhost/family/calvin?id:data sablons/ Synchronize user table in database wikipedia from MySQL on server1 to PostgreSQL on server2. ./pg_comparator -S -D --ask-pass \ mysql://calvin@server1/wikipedia/user pgsql://hobbes@server2/ For PostgreSQL, you may add trigger-maintained key and tuple checksums as: -- TABLE Foo(id SERIAL PRIMARY KEY, data ... NOT NULL); -- add a key and tuple checksum attributes -- the key checksum can be skipped if you use --use-key, -- for which the key must be a simple NOT NULL integer. ALTER TABLE Foo ADD COLUMN key_cs INT4 NOT NULL DEFAULT 0, ADD COLUMN tup_cs INT8 NOT NULL DEFAULT 0; -- function to update the tuple checksum -- if some attributes may be NULL, they must be coalesced CREATE FUNCTION foo_cs() RETURNS TRIGGER AS $$ BEGIN -- compute key checksum NEW.key_cs = cksum4(NEW.id); -- compute tuple checksum NEW.tup_cs = cksum8(NEW.id || '|' || NEW.data); RETURN NEW; END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; -- set trigger to call the checksum update function CREATE TRIGGER foo_cs_trigger BEFORE UPDATE OR INSERT ON Foo FOR EACH ROW EXECUTE PROCEDURE foo_cs(); -- if table Foo is not initially empty, -- update its contents to trigger checksum computations UPDATE Foo SET id=id; Then a fast comparison, which does not need to compute the initial checksum table, can be requested with: ./pg_comparator --tcs=tup_cs --kcs=key_cs \ admin@server1/app/Foo?id:data hobbes@server2/ As the primary key is a simple integer, the key_cs could be left out and the comparison could be launched with: ./pg_comparator --tcs=tup_cs --use-key \ admin@server1/app/Foo?id:data hobbes@server2/ The output of the command consists of lines describing the differences found between the two tables. They are expressed in term of insertions, updates or deletes and of tuple keys. Key k tuple is updated from table 1 to table 2. It exists in both tables with different values. Key k tuple does not appear in table 2, but only in table 1. It must be inserted in table 2 to synchronize it wrt table 1. Key k tuple appears in table 2, but not in table 1. It must be deleted from 2 to synchronize it wrt table 1. In case of tuple checksum collisions, false negative results may occur. Changing the checksum function would help in such cases. See the ANALYSIS sub-section. Three support functions are needed on the database: The COALESCE function takes care of NULL values in columns. A checksum function must be used to reduce and distribute key and columns values. It may be changed with the --checksum option. Its size can be selected with the --checksize option (currently 2, 4 or 8 bytes). The checksums also require casts to be converted to integers of various sizes. Suitable implementations are available for PostgreSQL and can be loaded into the server by processing share/contrib/pgc_checksum.sql and share/contrib/pgc_casts.sql. New checksums and casts are also available for MySQL, see mysql_*.sql. An loadable implementation of suitable checksum functions is also available for SQLite, see sqlite_checksum.*. An aggregate function is used to summarize checksums for a range of rows. It must operate on the result of the checksum function. It may be changed with the --aggregate option. Suitable implementations of a exclusive-or xor aggregate are available for PostgreSQL and can be loaded into the server by processing share/contrib/xor_aggregate.sql. The sqlite_checksum.* file also provides a xor and sum aggregates for SQLite that are compatible with other databases. Moreover several perl modules are useful to run this script: Getopt::Long for option management. DBI, DBD::Pg to connect to PostgreSQL, DBD::mysql to connect to MySQL, and DBD::SQLite to connect to SQLite. Term::ReadPassword for --ask-pass option. Pod::Usage for doc self-extraction ( --man --opt threads for the experimental threaded version with option --threads. Digest::MD5 for md5 checksum with SQLite. Modules are only loaded by the script if they are actually required. The aim of the algorithm is to compare the content of two tables, possibly on different remote servers, with minimum network traffic. It is performed in three phases. A checksum table is computed on each side for the target table. A fist level summary table is computed on each side by aggregating chunks of the checksum table. Other levels of summary aggregations are then performed till there is only one row in the last table, which then stores a global checksum for the whole initial target tables. Starting from the upper summary tables, aggregated checksums are compared from both sides to look for differences, down to the initial checksum table. Keys of differing tuples are displayed. The first phase computes the initial checksum table T(0) on each side. Assuming that key is the table key columns, and cols is the table data columns that are to be checked for differences, then it is performed by querying target table T as follow: CREATE TABLE T(0) AS SELECT key AS pk, -- primary key checksum(key) AS kcs, -- key checksum checksum(key || cols) AS tcs -- tuple checksum FROM t; The initial key is kept, as it will be used to show differing keys at the end. The rational for the kcs column is to randomize the key-values distribution so as to balance aggregates in the next phase. The key must appear in the checksum also, otherwise content exchanged between two keys would not be detected in some cases. Now we compute a set of cascading summary tables by grouping f (folding factor) checksums together at each stage. The grouping is based on a mask on the kcs column to take advantage of the checksum randomization. Starting from p=0 we build: CREATE TABLE T(p+1) AS SELECT kcs & mask(p+1) AS kcs, -- key checksum subset XOR(tcs) AS tcs -- tuple checksum summary FROM T(p) GROUP BY kcs & mask(p+1); The mask(p) is defined so that it groups together on average f checksums together: mask(0) = ceil2(size); mask(p) = mask(p-1)/f; This leads to a hierarchy of tables, each one being a smaller summary of the previous one: checksum table, size rows, i.e. as many rows as the target table. first summary table, (size/f) rows. intermediate summary table, (size/f**p) rows. one before last summary table, less than f rows. last summary table, mask is 0, 1 row. It is important that the very same masks are used on both sides so that aggregations are the same, allowing to compare matching contents on both sides. After all these support tables are built on both sides comes the search for differences. When checking the checksum summary of the last tables (level n) with only one row, it is basically a comparison of the checksum of the whole table contents. If they match, then both tables are equal, and we are done. Otherwise, if these checksums differ, some investigation is needed to detect offending keys. The investigation is performed by going down the table hierarchy and looking for all kcs for which there was a difference in the checksum on the previous level. The same query is performed on both side at each stage: SELECT kcs, tcs FROM T(p) WHERE kcs & mask(p+1) IN (kcs-with-diff-checksums-from-level-p+1) ORDER BY kcs [and on level 0: , id]; And the results from both sides are merged together. When doing the merge procedure, four cases can arise: Both kcs and tcs match. Then there is no difference. Although kcs does match, tcs does not. Then this kcs is to be investigated at the next level, as the checksum summary differs. If we are already at the last level, then the offending key can be shown. No kcs match, one supplemental kcs in the first side. Then this kcs correspond to key(s) that must be inserted for syncing the second table wrt the first. No kcs match, one supplemental kcs in the second side. Then this kcs correspond to key(s) that must be deleted for syncing the second table wrt the first. Cases 3 and 4 are simply symmetrical, and it is only an interpretation to decide whether it is an insert or a delete, taking the first side as the reference. Let n be the number of rows, r the row size, f the folding factor, k the number of differences to be detected, c the checksum size in bits, then the costs to identify differences and the error rate is: is better than k*f*ceil(log(n)/log(f))*(c+log(n)). the contents of k blocks of size f is transferred on the depth of the tree, and each block identifier is of size log(n) and contains a checksum c. It is independent of r, and you want k<<n. The volume of the SQL requests is about k*log(n)*ceil(log(n)/log(f)), as the list of non matching checksums k*log(n) may be dragged on the tree depth. minimum is 6+ceil(log(n)/log(f)) for equal tables, maximum is 6+2*ceil(log(n)/log(f)). is about n*r+n*ln(n)*(f/(f-1)). i.e. part of the tables are considered equal although they are different. With a perfect checksum function, this is the probability of a checksum collision at any point where they are computed and should have been different: about k*ceil(log(n)/log(f))*2**-c. For a million row table, expecting 1000 changes with the default algorithm parameter values, this is about 2**10 *3/2**64, that is about one chance in 2**52 merge runs. The lower the folding factor f the better for the network volume, but the higher the better for the number of requests and disk I/Os: the choice of f is a tradeoff. The lower the checksum size c, the better for the network volume, but the worse for the false negative probability. If the available bandwidth is reasonable, the comparison will most likely be cpu-bound: the time is spent mainly on computing the initial checksum table. Thus if you are planning to check for differences quite often, consider maintaining a tuple checksum with a trigger, and possibly a key checksum as well, and invoke with --tuple-checksum and either --key-checksum or --use-key. The checksum implementation gives integers, which are constant length and easy to manipulate afterwards. The xor aggregate is a good choice because there is no overflow issue with it, it takes into account all bits of the input, and it can easily be defined on any binary data. The sum aggregate is also okay, but it requires some kind of underlying integer type. NULL values must be taken care appropriately. The folding factor and all modules are taken as power of two so as to use a masks. There is a special management of large chunks of deletes or inserts which is implemented although not detailed in the algorithmic overview and complexity analysis. There is some efforts to build a PostgreSQL/MySQL compatible implementation of the algorithm, which added hacks to deal with type conversions and other stuff. This script is reasonably tested, but due to its proof of concept nature there is a lot of options the combination of which cannot all be tested. If the tables to compare are in the same database, a simple SQL query can extract the differences. Assuming Tables T1 and T2 with primary key id and non null contents data, then their differences, that is how T1 differs from the reference T2, is summarized by the following query: SELECT COALESCE(T1.id, T2.id) AS key, CASE WHEN T1.id IS NULL THEN 'DELETE' WHEN T2.id IS NULL THEN 'INSERT' ELSE 'UPDATE' END AS operation FROM T1 FULL JOIN T2 USING (id) WHERE T1.id IS NULL -- DELETE OR T2.id IS NULL -- INSERT OR T1.data <> T2.data -- UPDATE A paper was presented at a conference about this tool and its algorithm: Remote Comparison of Database Tables by Fabien Coelho, In Third International Conference on Advances in Databases, Knowledge, and Data Applications (DBKDA), pp 23-28, St Marteen, The Netherlands Antilles, January 2011. ISBN: 978-1-61208-002-4. Copyright IARIA 2011. Online at Think Mind. The algorithm and script was inspired by Taming the Distributed Database Problem: A Case Study Using MySQL by Giuseppe Maxia in Sys Admin vol 13 num 8, Aug 2004, pp 29-40. See Perl Monks for details. In this paper, three algorithms are presented. The first one compares two tables with a checksum technique. The second one finds UPDATE or INSERT differences based on a 2-level (checksum and summary) table hierarchy. The algorithm is asymmetrical, as different queries are performed on the two tables to compare. It seems that the network traffic volume is in k*(f+(n/f)+r), that it has a probabilistically-buggy merge procedure, and that it makes assumptions about the distribution of key values. The third algorithm looks for DELETE differences based on counting, with the implicit assumption that there are only such differences. In contrast to this approach, our fully symmetrical algorithm implements all three tasks at once, to find UPDATE, DELETE and INSERT between the two tables. The checksum and summary hierarchical level idea is reused and generalized so as to reduce the algorithmic complexity. From the implementation standpoint, the script is as parametric as possible with many options, and makes few assumptions about table structures, types and values. Michael Nacos made a robust implementation pg51g based on triggers. He also noted that although database contents are compared by the algorithm, the database schema differences can also be detected by comparing system tables which describe them. Benjamin Mead Vandiver's PhD Thesis Detecting and Tolerating Byzantine Faults in Database Systems, Massachusset's Institute of Technology, May 2008 (report number MIT-CSAIL-TR-2008-040). There is an interesting discussion in Chapter 7, where experiments are presented with a Java/JDBC/MySQL implementation of two algorithms, including this one. Baron Schwartz discusses comparison algorithms in an online post. Some more links: Citrus Tech Data Comparison Clever Components dbcomparer SQL Server tablediff Utility Red Gate SQL Data Compare AlfaAlfa SQL Server Comparison Tool xSQL Software Data Compare The paper reports numerous performance tests with PostgreSQL under various bandwith constraints. Moreover, non regression tests are run over randomly generated tables when the software is upgraded: Run a comparison, synchronization & check for all databases combinaisons and all working asynchronous queries and threading options. Run 12 tests similar to the previous one with varrying options (number of key columns, number of value columns, aggregate function, checksum function, null handling, folding factor, table locking or not...). Test various features: cc for checksum computation strategies, auto for trigger-maintained checksums on PostgreSQL, pgcopy for PostgreSQL copy test, empty for corner cases with empty tables, quote for table quoting, engine for InnoDB vs MyISAM MySQL backends, width for large columns, nullkey for possible NULL values in keys, sqlite for SQLite test, mylite for SQLite/MySQL mixed mode with some restrictions, pglite for SQLite/PostgreSQL mixed mode with some restrictions. This is feature with two table sizes, fast, and collisions to test possible hash collisions. A combination of 8 fast validations with varrying table sizes and difference ratio ranging from 0.1% to 99.9%. A combinatorial test involving numerous options: aggregation, checksums, null handling, foldings, number of key and value attributes... All softwares have bugs. This is a software, hence it has bugs. Reporting bugs is good practice, so tell me if you find one. If you have a fix, this is even better! The implementation does not do many sanity checks. Although the algorithm can work with some normalized columns (say strings are trimmed, lowercased, Unicode normalized...), the implementation may not work at all. The script is really tested with integer and text types, issues may arise with other types. The script handles one table at a time. In order to synchronize several linked tables, you must disable referential integrity checks, then synchronize each tables, then re-enable the checks. There is no real attempt at doing some sensible identifier quoting, although quotes provided in the connection url are kept, so it may work after all for simple enough cases. There is no neat user interfaces, this is a earthly command line tool. This is not a bug, but a feature. There are too many options. Using another language such as Python for this application seems attractive, but there is no cleanly integrated manual-page style support such as POD, and the documentation is 50% of this script. Mixed SQLite vs PostgreSQL or MySQL table comparison may not work properly in all cases, because of SQLite dynamic type handling and reduced capabilities. The script creates (temporary) tables on both sides for comparing the target tables: this imply that you must be allowed to do that for the comparison... However, read-only replicas do not allow creating objects, which mean that you cannot use pg_comparator to compare table contents on a synchronized replica. See PG Foundry for the latest version. My web site for the tool. Fix broken URL defaults to use UNIX sockets with an empty host name, per report by Ivan Mincik. Fix --where condition handling with --pg-copy in corner cases. Do not take execution timestamps when not required. Allow a larger number of differences by default for small table comparisons. Add more sanity checks. Improve some error messages. The release validation was run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.4b1 and MySQL 5.5.38. Add experimental support for using COPY instead of INSERT/UPDATE for PostgreSQL, in chunks of size specified with option --pg-copy, as suggested by Graeme Bell. Minor fix when computing the maximum number of differences to report. The release validation was run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.4b1 and MySQL 5.5.37. Improved documentation. Add --unlogged option to use unlogged tables. The release validation was run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.3.4 and MySQL 5.5.35. Fix some warnings reported by Ivan Mincik. Minor doc changes. The release validation was run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.3.2 and MySQL 5.5.34. Do not die on missing driver in URL, regression reported by Ivan Mincik. The release validation was run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.2.4 and MySQL 5.5.31. Bug fix by Robert Coup, which was triggered on hash collisions (again). This bug was introduced in 2.1.0 when getting rid of the key separator, and not caught by the validation. Factor out database dependencies in a separate data structure, so that adding new targets should be simpler in the future. Add SQLite support. Add experimental Firebird support. Fix some warnings. Update cksum8 function to propagate the first checksum half into the computation of the second half. Improved documentation. Improved validation, in particular with a collisions test. The release and hour validations were run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.2.3 and MySQL 5.5.29. Fix an issue when table names were quoted, raised by Robert Coup. Improved documentation, especially Section "SEE ALSO". More precise warning. Improved validation. The release and hour validations were run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.2.1 and MySQL 5.5.27. Synchronization now handles possible NULLs in keys. Warn if key is nullable or not an integer under --use-key. Improved documentation, in particular non regression tests are described. The release and hour validations were run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.1.4 and MySQL 5.5.24. Add --tuple-checksum and --key-checksum options so as to use existing possibly trigger-maintained checksums in the target tables instead of computing them on the fly. Add --checksum-computation option to control how the checksum table is built, either CREATE ... AS ... or CREATE ...; INSERT .... For MySQL, rely directly on the count returned by CREATE ... AS if available. Add --lock option for locking tables, which is enabled when synchronizing. Improve asynchronous query handling, especially when creating checksum tables and getting initial table counts, and in some other cases. Remove redundant data transfers from checksum table under option --use-key. Get rid of the separator when retrieving keys of differing tuples. Note that it is still used when computing checksums. Fix bug in bulk insert and delete key recovery under option --use-key. Fix potential bug in handling complex conditions with --where. Change default prefix to pgc_cmp so that it is clearer that it belongs to pg_comparator. Fix initial count query which was not started asynchronously under --tcs. Ensure that if not null detection is in doubt, a column is assumed nullable and thus is coalesced. Fix query counters so that they are shared under --threads. Fix threading for explicit cleanup phase. Warn if nullable key attributes are encountered. Make default driver for second connection be the same as first. Rename option --assume-size as --size. Add short documentation about --debug. Multiple --debug set DBI tracing levels as well. Improve the difference computation code so that the algorithm is more readable. Improve documentation. Add and improve comments in the code. The release and hour validations were run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.1.4 and MySQL 5.5.24. Add --source-* options to allow taking over DBI data source specification. Change default aggregate to sum so that it works as expected by default when mixing PostgreSQL and MySQL databases. The results are okay with xor, but more paths than necessary were investigated, which can unduly trigger the max report limit. Improved documentation. In particular default option settings are provided systematically. The fast validation was run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.1.4 and MySQL 5.5.24. Use asynchronous queries so as to provide some parallelism to the comparison without the issues raised by threads. It is enabled by default and can be switched off with option --no-asynchronous. Allow empty hostname specification in connection URL to use a UNIX socket. Improve the documentation, in particular the analysis section. Fix minor typos in the documentation. Add and fix various comments in the code. The fast validation was run successfully on PostgreSQL 9.1.4 and MySQL 5.5.24. Bug fix in the merge procedure by Robert Coup that could result in some strange difference reports in corner cases, when there were collisions on the kcs in the initial checksum table. Fix broken synchronization with '|' separator, raised by Aldemir Akpinar. Warn about possible issues with large objects. Add --long-read-len option as a possible way to circumvent such issues. Try to detect these issues. Add a counter for metadata queries. Minor documentation improvements and fixes. Change default separator again, to '|'. Fix --where option mishandling when counting, pointed out by Enrique Corona. Post release note: the synchronisation is broken with the default separator in 1.8.1, do not use it, or use --separator='%'. Change default separator to '%', which seems less likely, after issues run into by Emanuel Calvo. Add more pointers and documentation. Improved documentation. Enhancement and fix by Maxim Beloivanenko: handle quoted table and attribute names; Work around bulk inserts and deletes which may be undefined. More stats, more precise, possibly in CSV format. Add timeout and use-null options. Fix subtle bug which occurred sometimes on kcs collisions in table T(0).. Add more functions (MD5, SUM) and sizes (2, 4, 8). Remove template parameterization which is much too fragile to expose. Add a wrapping transaction which may speed up things a little. Implementation for MySQL, including synchronizing heterogeneous databases. Improved documentation. Extensive validation/non regression tests. More documentation. Improved connection parsing with more sensible defaults. Make the mask computation match its above documentation with a bottom-up derivation, instead of a simpler top-down formula which results in bad performances when a power of the factor is close to the size (as pointed out in Benjamin Mead Vandiver's PhD). This bad mask computation was introduced somehow between 1.3 and 1.4 as an attempt at simplifying the code. More documentation. Add --expect option for non regression tests. Add more links. Fix so that with a key only (i.e. without additional columns), although it could be optimized further in this case. Integrate patch by Erik Aronesty: More friendly "connection parser". Add synchronization option to actually synchronize the data. Manual connection string parsing. Grumble! wrong tar pushed out. Minor makefile fix asked for by Roberto C. Sanchez. Minor fix for PostgreSQL 8.3 by Roberto C. Sanchez. Port to PostgreSQL 8.2. Better documentation. Fix mask bug: although the returned answer was correct, the table folding was not. DELETE/INSERT messages exchanged so as to match a 'sync' or 'copy' semantics, as suggested by Erik Aronesty. Project moved to PG Foundry. Use cksum8 checksum function by default. Minor doc updates. Added --show-all-keys option for handling big chunks of deletes or inserts. Fix algorithmic bug: checksums must also include the key, otherwise exchanged data could be not detected if the keys were to be grouped together. Algorithmic section added to manual page. Thanks to Giuseppe Maxia who asked for it. Various code cleanups. Initial revision. Copyright (c) 2004-2014, Fabien Coelho <pg dot comparator at coelho dot net> This software is distributed under the terms of the BSD Licence. Basically, you can do whatever you want, but you have to keep the license and I'm not responsible for any consequences. Beware, you may lose your data, your friends or your hairs because of this software! See the LICENSE file enclosed with the distribution for details. If you are very happy with this software, I would appreciate a postcard saying so. See my webpage for current address.

Broken promises and price rises… Bernard, I reject the nonsense about Julia’s alleged ‘promise’ as though she’s completely gone back on ALP policy or commitment to climate change action? Let’s look at the facts ; Labor tried 3 times to have the CPRS passed. The Libs are the ones who’ve ‘flip-flopped’ over this, in particular, Abbott. He’s as Greg Combet asserts, a ‘political opportunist’? I don’t believe that Abbott gives a toss about this country or the people in it. He got rid of Turnbull and the non-partisan agreement on action on climate change; and he and his colleagues are the ones living a lie. Every time I hear Greg Hunt’s protestations I want to scream - another one who’s only interested in his power and the Coalition’s. The business sector knew this was coming, their whining makes me sick! They don’t give a damn about anyone either, just today, and today’s profits! On the other hand, Kevin Rudd’s electoral victory was due in a large part to support for action. He lost his way and allowed himself to be pushed onto another path - to his detriment. Labor and the Independents and the Greens were elected as the govt and they consistently had a policy on climate change, not the Opposition. The Greens increased their vote, and together with Labor’s is a strong answer by the electorate, that they favour their policies over the Coalitions. I wish someone would point this out to Abbott; I wish someone would persist with the question of whether Abbott would remove the tax on carbon if elected. He’s refused to answer the question on several occasions. A decent journalist would persist with that question until he answered it, or just cut the interview. I’m fed up with the focus on Julia Gillard while Abbott gets off almost unscathed! He can’t even say whether he agrees with his Treasury spokesperson Hockey on his point, that once in place for 12 months a Coalition govt would find it difficult, impossible even to remove! I just went them to get on with it. I’ve supported this action for years, and am sick of the bs. Why, why, why does no one talk about agriculture, specifically livestock and animal industries, and the significant contribution they make to greenhouse gas emissions and climate change, through methane (x80 the impact of carbon dioxide), and nitrous oxide? Land clearing, deforestation, massive application of fertiliser to increase feed yield, to grow grain that could be fed to human animals? Protein production via animals is ridiculously inefficient - requiring some 7lb of feed to produce 1lb of beef, for example. To that, add the manure that comes out of intensive (and intensely cruel) factory farms, plus all the antibiotics. Then, there’s aquaculture - fancy a fish that’s been swimming in its own faeces while it’s been fattened up on wild fish - just as inefficient as growing livestock. It’s about time we had this debate in Australia, before we are left behind. The world simply cannot afford its increasing dependence on animal products. The coalition says farmers will never be affected by any climate change system. That’s madness. Captain Planet - You said it all. Puddleduck - Have you even seen a farm? How many pounds of feed does it take to produce one pound of puddleduck (something tells me it will be les efficient than beef) not to mention the manure and antibiotics. Note what that Frontier Economics report actually said: Translation: the CPRS as presented to the Senate was a self-defeating policy with some of the downside (complexity, distortion, compliance costs) of a neutral ETS, as well as a high level of rentseeking opportunity, and none of the environmental upside. Bury it in unconsecrated ground, and use a completely different approach this time. Do not provide compensation directly to sectors such as industries or households. Instead, recycle the carbon-tax revenue through the economic mulching machine by lowering the company tax rate. As I explain here, that mulching machine will make Australian households $1.40 richer for every $1.00 recycled in across-the-board reductions of company tax. Aussie battlers can then choose to spend the extra $0.40 on the higher electricity bills, or they can look for ways to reduce their electricity usage, and pocket the difference. @PUDDLEDUCK - Let’s wait for all this premature nonsense to get out of the way, then hopefully we’ll discuss all the important issues relating to climate change. I agree with you about farming. A steak is a very expensive way of getting some protein - in comparison to lentils or some other equivalent. I wonder how many trees have been cut down since colonisation for farming use? Scary isn’t it? Incidently, Abbott’s nonsense about growing trees - I understand it takes 5 yrs before said trees do anything constructive re climate change. Of course, he doesn’t say anything about not cutting down native forests or being against Gunn’s proposed pulp mill etc. He’s worse than an idiot - he’s a dangerous idiot! A Rhodes Scholar??????I doubt it! Perhaps he’s just pure evil then! She might be a liar, but theres one thing she isn’t, insane. To actually think the majority would ever forgive Labor for backing out on the ETS again is She might be a liar, but theres one thing she isn’t, insane. To actually think the majority would ever forgive Labor for backing out on the ETS again, well thats just plain stupid. I am with you on this one Liz45. The sooner we get the ball rolling, the sooner we will have the GST non event that we have now. I thought JG served it up to that clown on 2ue this morning and she gave a lot better than she got. Just like that other talking flatus tube in Adelaide last week, his rudeness in not letting her answer his so called questions, (read dribbling, hysterical, bully girl na na na na na naas), showed him up to be the Malcolm Fraser/Number 96/ Play School script writer that he is. Why is it that the ABC in particular, does not pursue Rabbit for answers? He avoided answering whether he would remove the “great big tax” a number of times in different interviews and no one pinned him down; and if negativity for the sake of it is going to be his line, then we need to know if he is serious about cancelling the legislation the moment Hockey or Turnbull takes power in 2025. The way Rabid is going, he wont see the change in the senate in July. JG made a non core promise. Suck it up girls. We had to. Gillard: “Oi Believe in cloimate change” Reminds me of Wong’s moronic refrain: “the science is settled”. This IS about Belief. The mere fact they have to say it exposes their insecurity. What just happened? Both major parties explictly rejected a carbon tax, the govt. lost its majority and now we’re getting a carbon tax… Climate cult decline was one reason for the ALP’s flop at the polls. This political reality is countered with…a nasty “climate” tax. Forget the fatuity of the whole exercise (Australia with 1% of global emissions…) and the transparent nonsense about “not being left behind”. All the Right has to do is hammer Gillard’s hypocrisy, the regressive nature of the tax, inflationary effects and consequent pressure on interest rates. Some fat Nat will be told to sit on Greg Hunt’s face until after the next election- because Greggy really is a Believer. The only way Gillard can get away with it is to make the tax so small it won’t hurt. The Greens will whinge but they’re already at their high-water mark -so they’ll have to wear it. The tide is going out, Bob. The backlash hasn’t begun yet. The waste, the class discrimination, the sheer silliness of this gratuitous self-harm will hit home. If he doesn’t gaffe himself to death, Abbott will fall into power… Good news for the real environment, eh? Rednecks everywhere are dribbling with anticipation. “There’s no way that GST will ever be part of our policy. Never ever. It’s dead. It was killed by the voters in the last election.” John Howard. Alan Jones can froth all he likes. He’d do better to know his history, mind. Howard broke his promise, then went to the polls and got back in. Gillard is trying exactly the same approach and will either win or lose at the next election. Everything else is mere hot air, as it were. On the contrary, carbon tax puts money in our pockets. That much revenue coming from carbon means that much less income tax I have to pay. In fact, I will have more cash in my pocket. Moreover, I have been given the choice on whether to spend my extra money on now-expensive items or on something I couldn’t afford before. Since gas-fired electricity is going to be that much more expensive, perhaps it is time to check whether our questions on the now-cheaper nuclear have been answered. Saying electricity prices will go up is meaningless because they are going up already. Some say its because uncertainty about a carbon price and necessary infrastructure is being delayed. Either way we are paying higher electricity prices now and will continue to do so it seems with or without a carbon tax. Its sad or comical that Greg Hunt Turnbulls chief backer for a carbon reduction policy is presently dancing to a different tune with Abbott. Then again Abbott did the same thing having formerly backed the Turnbull/howard policy. This IS about Belief. The mere fact they have to say it exposes their insecurity A gentle reminder that all scientific method is about developing a theory based on observations, repeatededly tested, prodded,bitten laughed at , disclaimed at, but which repeatedly comes up with the same result. It is a system of BELIEF that is based in predictability. Many people throughout history have dismissed theories as mere beliefs, often because it conflicts with their own beliefs that , for them, require no degrees of certainty and are sufficient in that they seek comfort in them. Remember where the mad Abbott comes from. Julie may be Lady MacBeth but Abbott is the ghost of Bob Santa Maria come to haunt us all. It’s ok for Alan Jones to leave more froth on the microphone than usual, but surely we all know he is a card-carrying memberof the conservative elite and, at the same time, a totally dicsredited public figure. Why don’t we just keep reminding him of the numerous defammation cases he has lost and that rather, ermmm….(alleged) …unfortunate incident in the toilets of the London underground? Let him defend them for christ’s sake. And, while I’m at it, wasn’t it both Mr Jones’ and Mr Abbott’s knight in shining armour, Mr JW Howard, who went to an election declaring we will “never, ever” have a GST??? The article here convinces me that Labor is too concerned with the power and influence of the wrong people. It is us, who want to believe in the Labor capacity to act in the public good, that will chorus our unhappiness. Much more loudly and vehemently that Jones and Abbott could ever do. @COLIN - I agree. I’m not big-noting myself, but I don’t have any other income except my pension - and I have no problem with having to try and save energy and pay more - for the future of my grandkids and all kids! By the way, has anyone remembered Abbott’s promise of 2004 re Health Rebates? How soon was it after the election that he had to do an OOOOOOpppppppsssss! guess what folks? It’s going to cost more than I thought! I’m going to have to take back that promise and wind it back, quite a bit! Remember? He didn’t get hauled over the coals by the MSM, oh no! It just gently slid off the scene. Howard didn’t even chastise him, he kept his Health portfolio from memory, and the Jones, Bolts and others were, well silent - it was deafening! Abbott’s promise was ‘set in stone’ or ‘set in concrete - rock solid’ lock it in etc etc - and repeated it many, many times! Will someone please remind him and Jones and others, or perhaps I’ll ring his office on Monday and remind them! Remember Abbott’s ‘chat’ to Cardinal Pell over private school funding prior to ‘07 Election I think? And he got caught out by Tony Jones, Lateline, and had to admit to visiting Pell?(anyone watch that interview? if looks could kill, Tony would no longer be with us - what a hoot!) Another lie! He’s told more lies in 10 yrs than my 3 boys did when they were little kids? (well, as far as I know?) Howard went to the Election in 2004 and said that unfair dismissal laws would only apply in workplaces of 20 or less - then, after he got a majority in both Houses, he jacked it up to 100? Another lie! I have a print out of many Howard ‘lies’? Another was University fees - guess what? Nobody would pay $100,000 for a uni degree - not even medicine? Guess what? Yep! Costello introduced 30 taxes or increased charges in his first term?(the article in SMH was prior to ‘98 election or ‘01) - he promised there’d be none. Not only that, but when he was asked this question in Parlt, it took him 16 months to answer. It would probably be a good idea for me to do some homework over the weekend, and drag those articles out of storage! It will give me the greatest pleasure to read off a dozen or more! NO, I won’t ring Jones or that other rude, arrogant bastard - they’re not worth it! I heard a bit of Julia this morning re Alan Jones - via ABC - not his ‘show’, more like a rude arrogant rant! Go Julia! She’s good - I wouldn’t like to be on the receiving end - she’s really good on her feet too! When it comes to “boat people” it’s been reported “one Liberal MP” said “It works well for us in outer metrpolitan electorates” - obviously any other issues (like morality, or facts) are subverted to “the greater game”. So “Politicians aren’t bound by the same onus of reponsible behaviour - in their positions, having been elected to represent us - as ordinary people”? Is this Coaliton “policy” any different? All sound and fury - and “Gillard lies!!”, from “Abbott”, with his record of veracity? Besides, wasn’t that performance of Abbott’s in parliament so much like the Oscar winner he put in, when “Shadow Finance Minister” Joyce was in all that hot water (from his own utterances), when Abbott tied “Garrett’s culpability in industrial manslaughter” in all those roofs? Where is Scott “Reith-Morrison” in all this? And when it comes to “that little runt Greg”, it seems “that hack from the Oz” might have been talking about his “moral develpoment”, and not his physical - he is, very possibly, “Mike”, to some people? I can’t understand why “socialist personalities” enter “Gloria’s Lyin’s Den” - they know they’re there for ratings, commercial advertising air time and a slap around the head with a hand-bag! Maybe they’re into S&M too? Maybe that’s whe…. LORRY what the hell are you on about? Apart from demonizing the Jewish people in our country? Julia Gillard is a self-confessed atheist/agnostic (previously raised Protestant/Christian, if the media is to be believed). What a lot of obscene rubbish! No doubt you are a dyed- in- the- wool conservative supporter, but please get your facts right. I don’t really like journalists pressuring politicians for specific promises before elections. If they volunteer them, then they dig their own graves. Imagine if you were interviewing for your new company CEO, and you asked: “What new product lines will we be offering? What will our next acquisition be? Are you going to settle the litigation or contest it? Exactly what will it cost us?” More useful would be a statement of priorities and methods. What are the most important issues you want to address? What resources (party, public service, academic research units, etc) will you be using to form plans and respond to new information? What is your attitude (as opposed to a precisely costed plan) towards X, Y, and Z? I would find that a lot more meaningful. As far as I’m concerned, a politician who makes specific decisions before the election and then does the analysis after the election is a fool and I have no use for him. For those who might be interested! 35 Lies told by John Howard……and counting! Go to - “In Mr Howard’s response to the 27 lies on 23 August 2004(some more were added - obviously?) 3 times, his excuse is that his comments are being read out of context. 4 times, he passes the buck, claiming he wasn’t told or had wrong advice. 9 times, he avoids facing up to his lie-instead, diverting attention by talking about a different issue. 11 times, he tries to wriggle out, with a slippery, evasive response, adding new qualifications and conditions there were never there in his original statement.”. I should send this to Jones, the Murdoch rags and the ABC! I think the ALP should get on the job with lies pertaining to Howard, Abbott, Hockey and others! If you put 35 John Howard Lies into your search engine, you come up with 1,340,000 sites? How about that! The price of electricity is going to go up no matter what happens, tax or no tax. It’s a tradition for prices to go up. Individuals can do a great deal to keep the price at a managable level. They can stop wasting electricity for a start. It would be a rare household or business that could not find ways of reducing the use of electricity. If the price of your electricity goes up by $300pa then perhaps you are not really trying. Gael: “(science) is a system of BELIEF that is based in predictability.” Indeed. We “believe” when we enter a lift… Just look at the IPCC’s predictions (and the Royal Society’s recent warnings). The predictions vary wildly, from minimal to Armageddon. The time scales range from “already too late-start the piss-up” to a century and more. The observational evidence is limited in time. GW is observed from the mid-19th C, but most sophisticated data is post-1975. The AGW hypothesis is hanging on by the skin of its teeth. My guess is that it will be weakly confirmed. Projections are based entirely on computer modelling. One tweak of an assumption and a different piece of shit hits the fan. That takes a real leap of faith. Tribalism determines 95% of opinion on AGW: progressives yes, the Right- No. That should be a warning. The gullibility of the Left sickens me- because nearly all the desperately silly, premature and incompetent “action on climate” thus far succours the hard Right. Gillard did not lie when she said “there will be no carbon price under a govt. led by me”. She’s not leading the government. It’s being led by climate Savonarolas- to destruction. “I have a dream …” that Gillard can use this issue to further the recommendations of the (idiotic & self serving) review of the failing party base. Many Crikey commenters have deplored the lack of visionin the mechanisic machine that passes for the Labor party. Could this be the PRINCIPLE that revitalises them? Actually arguing a wildly unpopular idea, against the tide as did Evatt with the Communist Dissolution Bill, day after day, arguing the case for our better angels (if any - I remain to be convinced though, like Mulder, “I WANT to believe”). PM, you are currently just about afloat, use this opportunity, show us that you have something approaching integrity, vision, ability and the strength to get past dinosaurs like Mar’n Fer’son and that nasty lurking piece of shite, Cassius Shorten. Well now - it’s time for the Greens to actually articulate, persuade and deliver !!! All this pfuffing around, gazing down from the high ground ( moral ) banging on about this and that. OK - here’s your chance. If they can’t get this up, they will go the way of the Democrats. No pussyfooting, no shillyshallying - time to get down get dirty and actually try. After their last pathetic efforts - even Turnbull was a better advocate - and their fear of grubby compromise, STEP UP NOW. NO MORE EXCUSES. What are the odds ? @ Liz45, “(Tony Abbott has) told more lies in 10 yrs than my 3 boys did when they were little kids”. Gold. The perfectly aimed, accurate put - down for misogynist, control freak Mr. Rabid. Great work, Liz. Bernard to cast this as a left or right issue reeks of the 50’s ‘class war’. There would be Labor and Liberals on both sides here. My question is what is the effect of the tax? The definitive papers on pricing agree that it is effective if there is a substitute available otherwise it has only a price effect and in this case there is no alternative to base load power. Now Julia says we will just use less and therefore the effect will be a reduction in our standard of living but then there is a compensation scheme so those people will continue to consume without reduction so no net effect. I admit that I view threats of disaster from politicians with scepticism and while Garnaut may know something about economics his science could be put on half an Aspro with a crowbar. So I am confused and would like a clearer picture spelt out for me on what the impact of the carbon tax will have on myself and others TOGETHER with the benefits documented. And will imported products be loaded with a carbon tax component or will local manufacturers suffer competitively. Personally I would prefer to tax the user rather than the supplier to make it fair for local manufacturers who hire Australians. SAt the moment this seems to be a policy developed in haste without any understanding of the consequences. Why Oh Why did Gillard make that crazy pre-election “No Carbon Tax” promise? I can only put it down to new-to-the-job nerves and bad advice. But she has disappointed me greatly by her and her ministers’ repeated side-stepping of the question when it has been put today. Why doesn’t she allow that we have just a little bit of sense and tell us the truth - “It was down to the wire - we negotiated a government that included the Greens (and, by implication, direct representation of all those that voted for them) and a Carbon Tax was the price”. Why continually insult us with apparent deafness when asked time and again - usually more politely than that idiot talk-back pontiff? the lower house.….. Listening to a year of whining about this move is the real detriment to Australia, coupled to the likelihood of a backdown. A referendum so we could just decide it once and for all and be disappointed immediately would be just great. One word mozza Workchoices . William its not 1975 and the senate isn,t controlled by the coalition. Maybe a referendum like the republican one with half the delegates picked by the PM and half by the public to frame the question. you know as in not what do we want but what type can we choose from. Muddy the waters so to speak instead of a straight yes or no. @MOZZA77 - Talking about people who tell porkies! In case you didn’t read my last two posts - Howard’s 35 broken promises! Take a look! @CAPTAIN PLANET - Thanks! Geomac, what happened to Howard after workchoices…history looks like it will repeat itself. Difference is Liberals went from a majority to a minority, Labor, a minority into… Oblivion History may or may not repeat itself (that all depends on which viewpoint you choose to observe history from), but one thing I’m pretty confident of - assuming the legislation is enacted into law, is that if there is a change of government the legislation will not be repealed. That is, carbon pricing will be here to stay. Abbott with his “cast iron promises” on Health? Now it’s Hunt and Abbott - like Noddy and Big Ears isn’t it - “Never trust a golliwog”? Saint Bob is looking worn down lately. The Greens had 20 years to build their own media outlets and capacity. Have they done enough or will they be bullied into the ground by the News Corp fascist thugs? And the ALP as well with them? Will more weather catastrophes continue to be denied by the witless and the wicked (Andrew). Even David Rowe is unflattering on the opinion page cartoon yesterday. Back to horse and buggy eh Dave? As I write on my netbook? Meanwhile here comes …. Greenland. And mega fire on the NSW south coast, tropical diseases for …. Sydney. One day we might see a miracle - Gerard Henderson revealing his funding. All Policticians lie, but never before has there been such a blatant lie told by a Prime Minister as she holds the Australian electorate in contempt. “A lie may take care of the present, but it has no future” It is about faith. My faith in my religion has been challenged, ( I must have been an ugly altar boy because I am still a virgin and my hair is not permanently parted in the middle). They sold Australian icons like arnotts, speedos, BHP , and dismantled our manufacturing base including clothing, and the rest to overseas conglomerates and told us it was good for us. The GFC was planned, presented and delivered by the same people that wanted certain battlers and aspirationsls to bite off more than they could chew. They are still chewing like buggery and going backwards. There are more women bottle feeding now than breast feeding, and beer consumption in this country has fallen??? Now you want me to believe that a politician has broken a promise? Even a non core one? Suck it up thickheads. We had to for 11 years. Let me make a prediction: no political party without a workable policy to reduce CO2 emissions will be elected from today onwards. The reason is that the science of global warming has moved on from global models to local models. Right down to which streets of which towns will be flooded. The research results are a decade late, mainly because the research was never funded by Bush and Howard, who knew its political consequences. This knowledge will harness the power of the NIMBY. People will take a $300 rise in electricity prices, a rise in petrol prices and so on as long as the beachfront doesn’t move through their home. Let’s say the Liberal Party’s policy towards CO2 emissions doesn’t change. How long before Liberal voters all those in expensive coastal homes start looking for an alternative for their votes and their donations? The London Latrine Lurker at it again. A man living a lie dares to upbraid others about lying. If only Labor weren’t so p*ssweak, they’d return the compliment. These rats might be big on morning radio, but who actually listens - and agrees - to them. Maybe a big proportion of radio listeners, but most people aren’t listening to the radio at that time. They are unrepresentative swill, not some magic oracles of ‘ornry strayns’. I agree with Bob the Builder. The only people who listen to the shock jocks are the unemployed and the unemployable. @ Freecountry, 25th Feb at 7:25 pm, “I don’t really like journalists pressuring politicians for specific promises before elections…” In principle, I agree - with qualification. Your comparison with the business world is quite incisive and illustrates the peculiar nature of the media depiction of politics, that journalists have led the public to believe that such demands for specific promises are reasonable, when expected only of this particular sector. “As far as I’m concerned, a politician who makes specific decisions before the election and then does the analysis after the election is a fool and I have no use for him.” ….. or her. In practice, I have to disagree with you here. Partially due to media distortion and partially because it’s true, the Australian public have come to have a very low opinion of the trustworthiness of their politicians’ statements of intention. Accordingly, journalists demand specific promises for two purposes: 1. In order to cater for the bulk of their audience, who have become so accustomed to the prevailing banal oversimplification of political discussion, that a simple “I promise to do X” or “I promise not to do Y” is what they have come to expect and require: 2. In order to introduce an element of accountability to politicians and their positions. Very few in the political arena take positions based on strongly held ideology or principles in the current political environment. Expediency and populism dictate that the major parties’ position on generalites and specifics is very much subject to change. People cynically expect a reversal of policy thrust, and suspiciously disbelieve statements of general intention, so specific promises give them some form of guarantee they believe they can use to hold politicians to account. For example, the media are busy asking Mr. Rabid whether the Opposition would repeal a Carbon Tax if elected at the next election. Firstly this is a gross oversimplification of the complexities of the situation. Once the tax regime has changed and business and the economy have adapted, it can be destructive to reverse the situation. So it is unreasonable to ask this question, and no wonder Mr. Rabid has ducked it. On the other hand, Mr. Rabid can talk up his fundamental opposition to a carbon tax all he likes, if he really believes it is such a disastrous evil plan, he would be willing to risk the upheaval of repealing the tax, if elected. This is the second reason the media pursue the issue: If it means so much to you, lets have a committment about action - a binding one. Politicians are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t when it comes to specific promises. If they dodge the media’s request for specific committments, they are seen as deceptive and lacking in conviction. The media know this and manipulate politicians into making firm promises. Its a game at the political level, between interviewer and interviewee: A successful journalist is one who either extracts a solid statement of policy position, for the edification of the public, or extracts a foolish promise in the heat of the moment, for future use to discredit the promiser, depending on the quality of the journalism. A successful politician, in this context, is one who maintains the integrity of their policy framework, gives sufficient specifics to satisfy the public of their conviction, and chooses those specifics carefully enough to ensure they won’t get caught out. Bob the Builder and Arty I read somewhere that the reason why Jones wins the morning ratings is because his demographic is over 55 and therefore mostly retired people who dont work so can afford to listen to the entire show. Adam Spencer has more listeners in the morning but as his demographic consists of non geriatric people who have lives and jobs he isnt the top rater. I would hope his listeners are more representative of the society we live in than Jones. Frank Campbell (Tribalism determines 95% of opinion on AGW: progressives yes, the Right- No) In 1956 there were scientists telling people (especially at Wittinoon) that asbestos was harmful to ones health. In 1965 wharfies at London docks refused to handle asbestos because of the health warnings. But you are implying that we should ignore the warnings of thousands of scientists and research bodies because their climate prediction models are only models and might have a flaw in them. Gamble with your own childrens lives but do not include mine. No one has mentioned the man of steel wool undies` war. We did not vote on our involvement, there was no discussion regarding our involvement, there was no referendum, and there was, (and still is), no honesty associated with his kitchen cabinet`s, (he and his wife), decision to donate our country’s sons and daughters to Haliburtons greed. We are still paying, metaphorically and physically, (with due respect to the families who paid the ultimate price), for a war we did not need to be in. I wonder how much better our nations bottom line would be if we hadn’t got involved in that pathertic episode. Bastard is still lying about it too.

Dream varies according to talent, of course, but also according to circumstance and tradition. Young hoopsters on city street corners may fantasize about a ticket to the NBA, while Canadian boys dream of ice and pucks, and prep-schoolers of glory in tennis, crew, or lacrosse. And for young women of certain classes and cultures--that is to say white, middle- to upper-middle-class, and not too far removed from the farm--chances are, the golden vision involves a horse, as it does for 16-year-old Meghann Beverly. "I don't go to football games, that kind of stuff," says the blue-eyed, brown-haired teenager, settling into her coach seat on an American Airlines flight from Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport to Columbus, Ohio. It's a Friday evening in October, homecoming night in McKinney, where Meghann is a junior. But while most pretty young women occupy themselves with chrysanthemums and cheering on lads in shoulder pads, Meghann has other concerns. "I'm too busy," she explains. After all, she has just three more years before she turns 19 and is out of the youth division of the American Quarter Horse Association. There are goals to accomplish, so boys can wait. "It would just be a pain to have a boyfriend come to a horse show," she says. A few hours from now, she'll be hard at work in a practice ring at the All-American Quarter Horse Congress, the world's largest single-breed horse show. One of a handful of breeds to emerge in America, quarter horses were named for their prowess as sprinters--they are the fastest horses in the world at a quarter mile--and have long been the horse of choice on the great spreads of the south and west. They differ from the old-world breeds--the Thoroughbreds and the Welsh ponies and the big, Germanic warmbloods--not only in stature, build, and temperament, but also in their traditional uses. Though quarter horse shows feature competitions that range from jumping and pleasure driving to cutting cattle, the breed remains primarily Western. The plane wings its way over Arkansas, Missouri, Kentucky, and Indiana, territory the breed has colonized since its studbook was opened in Fort Worth 58 years ago. Meghann is chasing a dream that began at the usual age--about the time she could talk--while I tag along to see what has become of the sport I remember as a girl growing up in rural Texas. Part of the answer, I already know. Even as the country has become increasingly urban, quarter horses have become phenomenally popular. In 1974 there were one million animals in the AQHA studbook; 24 years later, that number has nearly quadrupled. They have become part of the undertow sucking families from the city, an increasingly popular parental stratagem for countering drugs, sex, and body piercing. Along with the increase in numbers has come increasingly fierce show-ring competition. The Congress itself is evidence. Twenty-five years ago, super shows such as the Congress were just getting their shaky start, lasting a few days and scrambling to break even. Today, the show is a massive affair. Held for 22 days every October, the Congress is to the world of quarter horse showing as the Belmont Stakes is to Thoroughbred racing, one of two or three annual events in the quarter horse galaxy where you get to test yourself against the best. Each fall they descend on the Ohio state fairgrounds from 50 states and three U.S. territories, as well as from Europe, Australia, and South America. This year, the show boasts 13,000 entries in more than 200 classes. More than 500,000 spectators will take in this peculiar combination of fashion and stock show, commerce and athletic contest, this strange piece of Americana that's at once crass and wholesome, kitschy and sublime. "It's a great honor just to come up here and place," observes John Briggs, a young horse trainer headquartered in Pilot Point, east of Denton. "It means you're one of the very best in the nation." On paper, Meghann already is. An extraordinarily sweet girl who takes honors classes and likes theater, Meghann is ranked second in the youth standings in one event, 12th in another, according to the Quarter Horse Journal, the fat, glossy magazine of record for the quarter horse world. "And I haven't been showing that much," she notes proudly. She's also an increasingly rare phenomenon in the upper ranks of quarter horse youth competitors. She doesn't have the world's most expensive horse, doesn't have particularly wealthy parents, and doesn't have the money to travel to horse shows across the country week in and week out, which is why the AQHA has suggested her as a guide. "Meghann competes against kids who spend more on a horse than I make in a year," says Bekki Beverly, Meghann's mother. "We do this on a budget." During the week, Bekki Beverly works as a pharmacist in Denison, while Meghann's dad, Stephen Beverly, installs phone systems for Lucent Technologies. They are working stiffs trying to compete in the most elite of sports. It's a world populated by wealthy, successful parents who are as competitive as little-league dads, where there are large gaps in sophistication and financial means. It's a world sharply divided between the middle-class, rural farm kids, the 4-Hers and the Future Farmers of America; and upper-class horse folk, where the have-nots suspiciously watch the haves, convinced the latter are getting unfair advantages even beyond those they naturally enjoy. In short, a world much like the one outside the horse arena. And most importantly, it's a haven where, underneath their carefully maintained Barbie-doll veneers, girls can, for a few hours, bare their type-A souls. If some sports are a ticket out of poverty, equine sports are more of a way into it. There are no Ivy League scholarships awaiting the victors, no fat six-figure prize-money checks, no cushy endorsement contracts. And traditionally, for lovers of quarter horses, not even Olympic glory. "I just don't think they're accepted [in Olympic circles]," says Nancy Cahill, a quarter horse trainer based in Madisonville, a small burg outside Houston. "They like those big old [European] warmbloods, and you just get used to what's been generally used and won on." This may soon change. The U.S. Equestrian Team, the organization that oversees Olympic equine sports in America, recently voted to make reining, a Western event in which horses execute a complex series of athletic maneuvers, an Olympic sport beginning with the 2004 or 2008 Games. Until then, there's the AQHA. And lots of consolation prizes: Immense satisfaction. A chance to see the country. All-important bragging rights. Those schmaltzy values sport is supposed to confer: poise, confidence, family togetherness, and the pure thrill of competition. "There are a lot worse addictions," says Bekki Beverly. And in a world where parents sometimes seem to view their tennis-star spawn and pre-pubescent gymnasts as miniature profit centers, horse showing offers a refreshing example of the old-fashioned sports syllogism: The parents love their kids. The kids love their horses. Therefore, the parents pony up. Meghann is proud of the tradeoffs she's made. "Most kids ask for a car for sweet 16," she says. "I asked to go to the Sun Circuit." The Sun Circuit is a group of quarter horse shows held each January in Tucson, Arizona--a chance to get a jump on the competition in the show standings, as each January 1 wipes the slate clean and begins the endless cycle of horse shows anew. Serious competitors load up their $50,000 living-quarter-equipped horse trailers and their RVs and crisscross the country in pursuit of show points. (The AQHA awards one "point" for every five horses a contestant beats in an AQHA-approved show--and a show is held somewhere every weekend throughout the year.) Each year, hundreds of kids contend to rack up points and become the high-point exhibitor in one or more events. Yet it's one thing to win at weekend shows with 20 to 40 horses in a class. To win consistently at the biggest shows, like the Congress, where every class features hundreds of the world's best entrants, is another. Meghann is trying to take it to this next level, to learn how to win world championship titles and sweep the most prestigious shows. She'll have to, if she is to realize her goal. "If I could have anything, I'd have a really big live-in trailer," says Meghann, slipping into her own special fantasyland. "And trainers that would go with me everywhere. And I'd like to do the home schooling and have the cell phones and computers, and my mom and my little sister would come along, over the country. That would be really neat." That, she knows, is beyond her family's reach. So she's pursuing a fallback dream. "The World Cup 2000 is in Rome [Italy]," she notes. The Quarter Horse Youth World Cup, a sort of Olympics for young quarter horse riders from around the world, is held every two years. It features team competition, with each country around the world sending a single team. "What we want is the all-around rider," explains Nancy Cahill, who has coached the U.S. Youth World Cup team for 10 years. "Because the person who rides one horse in two events is gonna have a real hard time getting on a horse they've never been on. In general, it's not gonna be the quality kind of horse you've been on." At the Youth World Cup, she explains, the riders mount donated horses assigned randomly, which they train for four days and then show in eight events. "This year, four of [the team members] were from Texas. All of 'em world champions," Cahill says. "They were like the dream team." Dream team or no, they were also an example of one problem plaguing the AQHA: the increasing marginalization of common horse folk. All five team members enjoyed certain advantages--chiefly wealthy parents or, in case of Nancy Cahill's daughter, Quincy, a parent who was a professional horse trainer. Nevertheless, Meghann is determined to get there. In the meantime, though, the clock is ticking--and winning a class or two this weekend would certainly help the cause. The American Quarter Horse Association was founded by wealthy ranchers, men with surnames like Clegg and Kleberg (founders of the King Ranch) and Burnett (founder of the Triangle ranch), who in the spring of 1939 met to talk about opening a studbook in order to preserve the bloodlines of the legendary cowponies and sprinters bred on their ranches. Over the years the breed has been crossed extensively with Thoroughbreds, producing a much larger horse but one still marked by its musculature, refinement, intelligence, and versatility. The shows themselves, however, remain remarkably true to their original purpose: a civilized way for wealthy, opinionated ranchers to argue over blooded stock. In 1960, the AQHA launched a youth division, and in the intervening 38 years, the youth outreach program has become arguably its biggest success. Today, quarter horse shows offer youngsters as many as 25 separate classes in which to show their mares and geldings (stallions are shown only in adult classes). In 1997, there were more than 210,000 youth entries in AQHA-approved shows, and at many, youth contestants outnumbered adults. Yet if at lower levels of competition these are 4-H and FFA kids, the top level of competition is far different. While rich folk are but a small percentage of today's quarter horse owners, they occupy disproportionate space in the sport's imagery, as well as in the upper ranks of competitors. They are supplemented by middle-class families who disdain urban life and idealize the rural past. According to an AQHA marketing study, 86 percent of quarter horse owners "consider themselves [to be] living a Western lifestyle through their clothing and music." Thirty percent live in urban or on the edge of urban areas; 69 percent live in rural areas. Meghann is a fine example of how it all begins. As a toddler she rode anything in sight: cows, hobby horses, couch arms, Daddy's knee, the family dog. "She was always the one [saying], 'Please, Mama, can I have a horse? Please, Mama, can I have a horse?'" Bekki Beverly recalls. "She called them 'opies' when she was little. She couldn't say 'horse,' so they were 'opies.'" Bekki understood. Growing up on a small farm in the Panhandle, she had dreamed her own cowgirl dreams. ("When I was a girl, every little girl wanted to be a trick rider," Bekki recalls.) As a child she had horses, among them a quarter horse mare named Lisa, which she showed at small local gatherings called playdays and 4-H shows in and around Amarillo. Still, Bekki resisted until Meghann was 9, when disaster granted the little girl's wish. "The Corps of Engineers let the Red River flood, and my daddy lost 700 acres of wheat," recalls Bekki. "The horses had been out in the pasture, and he called and said, 'Either you take them or they're going to the sale barn.' So we went from zero to seven." A move to the country quickly followed. Among the horses Meghann inherited was her mom's old 4-H horse, Lisa, by then 24 years old. When Lisa died a few months later, Bekki bought Meghann another quarter horse mare named Peaches. Meghann began showing Peaches in small-town weekend playdays and 4-H and FFA shows. "My first show was a midnight playday, at the McKinney Pinto Club," she recalls. "Peaches bucked me off." She went through Peaches and another quarter horse before Bekki teamed her with her current partner, True C Bar, a 17-year-old black quarter horse gelding with a stoic attitude, bad feet, and a built-in radar for peppermint. Nicknamed "Shamu" after the killer whale, he is a big, stout, old-fashioned New Mexico-bred quarter horse, and the family's favorite pet. He was a top amateur trail horse for his previous owner. As mom and dad pick up their daughter at Port Columbus International Airport, Bekki gives Meghann the horse report. For Meghann's parents, it's been a long night and day. To cut down on days taken off work, Bekki and Stephen drove the entire way after they got home the night before, tackling the 20-hour trip in shifts. To defray the cost of gas and Meghann's plane fare, Bekki hauled two yearlings that will be sold in the Congress' annual auction. "It paid for Meghann's ticket, and then some," she notes. Bekki is not the only one who moonlights for the cause; Dad makes and sells faux horsetails. (Shamu is the photo-model.) The show-ring fashion of the moment calls for long, thick, Rapunzel-style tails that extend nearly to the ground, a look most exhibitors obtain by using fake tail extensions, which are woven into the horse's own tail near the end of its tailbone. By the time Meghann reaches the show barn it's 10 p.m. The 20-acre show ground is humming, all neon lights and golf carts whizzing past dogs and horses and announcements over the PA system. Inside the main show arena, youth reining has just gotten under way; outside the arena, from a row of more than 20 fast-food booths, vendors hawk cinnamon rolls, apple turnovers, pizza, sausages. The whole place is electric, alive with people and smells--chiefly fried food, with strong notes of leather and manure. It resembles nothing so much as a small state fair devoted to the worship of a single breed of horse and, perhaps more importantly, to a way of life. It will continue this way well into the early morning, when the two main indoor show arenas will clear for a few hours. Even then, the activity will not end; at two and three in the morning each of the 10 or so practice rings will have half a dozen competitors moving in endless circles and figure eights. The Congress never sleeps. Back at the barn, John Briggs, Meghann's trainer, is waiting for a last-minute practice session with his pupil. Twenty-five years ago, it was the rare youth competitor who had the luxury of a trainer--much less one who followed them around to shows. Today, it is a practical necessity. As in grand slam tennis or golf or any other highly competitive sport, champions are made not only from hard work but from hours of sustained, nitpicky criticism and attention to detail. Such help doesn't come cheaply; Meghann's parents pay $600 a month to board Shamu with the Briggs, an arrangement that carries limitless lessons and tune-ups for horse and rider alike. (They pay additional charges for the Briggses to attend shows.) They're lucky; it's relatively cheap. Like Meghann, John and Jill Briggs are looking to make their mark. At 29, John is a multiple world champion who worked for a number of top trainers before striking out on his own. His wife and partner, Jill, 24, is a former youth world champion. Meghann is not the only youth competitor in the Briggses' barn. Across from Shamu's stall, 16-year-old Nicole Story is standing on an overturned can, carefully banding the mane of her big sorrel horse, Zircon Zipper, "ZZ" for short. A pretty, blonde junior at Granbury High, Nicole has the tough-as-nails mien that popular teenage girls sometimes develop, and palpable ambition. Though Nicole has been showing horses for nearly as long as Meghann, until recently it's been mostly in 4-H and local shows; this is her first Congress. The same goes for Sibyl Parsons, a precocious 12-year-old from Combine, Texas, located near Seagoville. Like Meghann, both Nicole and Sibyl are the daughters of middle-class parents, trying to compete in a sport that is ruthlessly up-or-out. Meghann takes Shamu out of his stall, only to discover a crisis: a weepy, swollen eye. It's a potential disaster. Her first class, at 8 a.m., is Showmanship at Halter, one in which appearances are critical, and the competition is fierce; in Meghann's age group alone, there are 240 entrants. Normally, it is one of Meghann's best events. With limited showing, she's ranked 12th in the national standings. But when you're showing against a few hundred of the world's best horses, the tiniest thing--a puffed-up, mattery eye--may earn you poor marks. Bekki trots off in search of a vet, while Meghann and John head for the practice ring to brush up on fine points of Meghann's body placement and Shamu's pivots. Like Bekki and Steve, Shamu looks exhausted; even the good eye is at half-mast. After 45 minutes, they treat the bad eye, put Shamu to bed, grab something to eat, and turn in for a few hours' sleep, fingers crossed. It works; the next morning, Shamu's eye is fine. Bekki is up at 6 a.m., primping Shamu. His faux tail in place, his feet polished with black hoof dye, his muzzle carefully slicked with baby oil, he looks ready for the winner's circle. Meghann throws a light sheet on him and heads off for one of three indoor arenas that hold a full day of competitions. What a show is unfolding inside. The interesting part isn't what goes on in the ring; watching a seven-hour Showmanship at Halter class is only slightly more interesting than five hours of sitting at a golf hole, watching endless rounds of contestants take their best shot. The fascination is primarily cultural. Though today's quarter horse owners are located all over the globe, though some of the biggest shows are held in the Midwest, the sport retains the cultural trappings of the wealthy Texans who started it all. Gear and the exhibitors alike display all the taste and subtlety of the Cattle Baron's Ball, Dallas' premier over-the-top society event. (Indeed, more than a few Dallas debs and socialites are women who, as teenagers, regularly graced the pages of the Quarter Horse Journal.) "It's a major fashion show," Meghann says of the sea of shiny-coated horses in silver- and gold-mounted halters, led by pretty young women in stage makeup and wildly flamboyant western outfits. There are rhinestones, Rolexes, suede, silver and gold lame, faux fur, real fur, Austrian crystals. ("The big thing now," explains Meghann. "They shine more.") Many of the girls sport gold-and-diamond jewelry that would make an NFL running back blush. But for the dirt and manure, the scene would qualify as camp. "The Barbie factor," Meghann calls it. And, outfitted in black moire silk trimmed in royal blue and rhinestones, she's no Raggedy Ann herself. Like those of most contestants, Meghann's show clothes are specially whipped up by a seamstress. As with ice-skaters' costumes, there is a cottage industry of needlewomen across the country who specialize in the designs. The Chanel of the moment is Paula from Arizona, whose number is handed around like a secret code. "There's Joetta," says Bekki Beverly, looking up for a moment from her endless horse-polishing duties. In a pen outside of the arena where showmanship is being held, 16-year-old Joetta Meredith is putting a small dun gelding through his paces. A wisp of a girl, so tiny and thin she could easily pass as a gymnast or ice skater, Joetta, who lives in a hamlet outside Houston, is the current big dog, the competitor to beat. According to the latest Quarter Horse Journal, she is ranked in the top five in two events. She's won multiple world titles at the youth world show, the by-invitation-only Super Bowl of youth horse showing. "Family money," Bekki explains. But it would be deceptive to write Joetta off as a rich kid whose parents bought success. In fact, she has the perfect combination of wealth and fire-in-the-belly determination that makes kids practice dozens of hours a week and forgo normal teenage lives. "Joetta's been working on it for a long time," says Nancy Cahill, the Youth World Cup coach, whose teams have included Joetta. "She was kinda plopped on at the gate for a long time. But she finally said, 'I want to ride every event. I want to stay here all day long. I want to do it all.' And that's when her folks finally bought her that dun horse... "Joetta wins everything because Joetta rides her own horse. Now I'm not saying she doesn't get some help; everyone gets some help. But Joetta rides her own horse--and she knows every nitpicking thing that sucker's gonna do wrong." Inside the ring, the fourth "split," or group of 20 or so contestants, is leading their animals through a complex dance of turns, trots, pivots, and stances. Each run takes three to five minutes, and four judges mark each contestant based on the precision and speed of the pattern, as well as the fine points of how they present the animal. On the surface the whole exercise seems to serve some JonBenet Ramsey ideal, some notion of little girls as pretty, ornamental princesses. Yet underneath, showing horses is subtly subversive. Equestrian sports are one of the few arenas where men and women compete head-to-head, and the women more than hold their own. The girls outnumber the guys by about 10 to 1, and barely seem to acknowledge their male competitors. The girls' worldly wise parents, looking on from the bleachers, seem convinced that the judges score boys higher. "They look a little more natural out there," explains the parent of one dolled-to-the-nines contestant. As each split finishes, anywhere from two to six semi-finalists are announced. They will return for another run, after which the judges will award ribbons. The callbacks so far seem to convince the parents of what they suspect: The fix is somehow in. "It gets real political at this level," explains Stephen Beverly. "Who you are. What trainer you're with. Whose horse you bought." Nevertheless, several well-known contestants, including members of this year's Youth World Cup team, aren't even called back. The parents' suspicions are symptomatic of that most common of sporting maladies: competitive transference. Bekki, to her credit, knows she's a sufferer. "Oh, yeah. I'm very competitive," she concedes. Meghann, on the other hand, isn't--not on the surface, anyway. A sweet girl, extraordinarily calm and poised, she simply doesn't wear that I'd-sell-grandma-for-a-tricolor expression common to most of the entrants. "She's had to learn to be competitive," Bekki says. For now, though, Joetta Meredith, the reigning world champion, is up. Confident, in command, she performs the pattern quickly and flawlessly. In a class in which horses and observers alike look bored to tears, she even causes a murmur of excitement in the stands, backing her horse so rapidly that for an instant it looks as if she will plow over the judge. "She's going for it," comments one ringside spectator. She is, of course, called back. Finally, Meghann's split is called and, to her parents' consternation, she lines up right behind a tall, lanky guy. He backs his horse crooked. Meghann's run is flawless. She's amazingly confident, not too solicitous, extremely competent. She's called back; the guy isn't. So much for horse-show strategy. Meghann's parents are happy, but worried. "One of the judges doesn't like Meghann's horse," explains Stephen Beverly. According to the Beverlys, Holly Hover, a judge from Colorado, is familiar with Shamu as a result of his previous owner's having shown against Holly. Most AQHA judges are professional trainers themselves and have run across many of the horses and contestants over the years; some even used to train the horses or the kids they judge. The AQHA bars judges from judging horses or contestants with whom they have been associated in any financial sense--but only for six months. The short time frame results in many perceived, if not actual, conflicts of interest. The semifinalists finally begin second runs at 2 p.m. Meghann has another flawless go. Joetta has another spectacular one. Nicole Story, Meghann's barn-mate, has also made it back to the finals, and she does well too. John and Jill are pleased with both. It's all up to the judges now. Shortly after 3:30 p.m., the winners are called. Meghann gets sixth place; Nicole gets eighth; Joetta wins. Meghann's parents are pleased, if not overly excited. "She had a good run. She's happy with herself," says Dad. "That's what matters. Because it's real political at this level." They get Meghann's scores the next morning. Holly Hover placed her; another judge did not. Back at the barn, Meghann is giving herself a manicure to match tomorrow's show outfit. Several professional manicurists have set up shop in an adjacent show barn, and on moms and contestants alike, it's hard to find a broken nail that lasts more than a few hours. It's a strange coupling of the behavior society expects from women and the demands of sport. These women may bring home the trophy saddle and pitch manure in a can, but they'll never let you forget you're a man. The lessons are carried into adulthood. Mine was a generation of women who, foolishly or not, grew up believing we could compete head-to-head with men and trying to be glamourpusses at the same time. Many a time I've run across some former competitor in the show ring, now an assistant district attorney or a state bar official or a doctor in private practice, always immediately recognizable, always wearing her show-ring makeup. Even those who stayed with the horses, becoming veterinarians or trainers or even AQHA judges--professions I never saw women in as a girl--maintained the value system. As Meghann does her nails, a 6- or 7-year-old horsemanship entrant walks by, big silver-roweled spurs clinking. Tiny, suspiciously blonde, fully made up, she is a vision in pink ostrich feathers and black chaps. At 60 pounds, maximum, she walks with the easy authority that comes from mastering a 1,200-pound animal. The 200-pound ones don't stand a chance. A parent, standing nearby, sees me studying the girl. "You've got to go see the small-fry horsemanship," she says. "Now there's a whole penful of JonBenets." Sunday morning is trail, Meghann's best event. Though quarter horse classes are of endless variety, all have one thing in common: They supposedly bear some relationship to various functions the horses are bred to perform. The trail class, however, has about as much relationship to actual trail riding as show jumping does to riding the hounds. Show officials set up a tiny, intricate maze of tricks and traps and things designed to send most horses to the moon. Successful trail-show horses have ice in their veins yet are sensitive enough to respond to riders' subtle cues. Meghann got her pattern yesterday, and she's concerned. The horses will be scored on whether they clear the obstacles without tics or knockdowns, as well as on general manners, disposition, and movement. But the devil is in the details--specifically, a series of wobbly rails-on-stilts over which the horses must pass at critical junctures. Nobody's having a clean ride. One by one, world champions and former Congress winners are going down. Meghann would really like to do well; she believes she was unfairly marked at the youth world show this summer. "She had a tic there at the very end, at a big high cross pole. But other than that, it was beautiful," Bekki recalls. "But...she was buried right the middle. And we're not a big name." And Meghann was not in the ribbons. Slowly, as the morning wears on, a few horses are emerging with near-perfect rides. Finally, toward the end of the morning, Meghann gets her chance. She looks great--until Shamu knocks over a stilted piece maneuvering through the gate. And then another. All in all, a disaster. Just outside the ring, Meghann pulls to the side and waits for Bekki and John. She knows it isn't her best ride, but doesn't seem to realize just how bad it was. She looks expectantly at John, who breaks the bad news. "There'll be 10 who don't knock it over," says John Briggs. "You won't be in the top 10," Bekki says more directly. Meghann is on the verge of tears. "It wasn't my fault," she tells her mother. Slowly, she walks Shamu back toward the barn. She has an hour or so to shake it off before her next class, Western Horsemanship, a class that, as its name suggests, judges the Western riding skills of the contestant. Meanwhile, Sibyl, Meghann's barn-mate, has placed fifth in 11-and-under showmanship. "Be sure to put it in the paper," she says. "Fifth place, Sibyl Parsons." Meghann changes clothes for her next class (her trail ensemble would have worked fine, but this is a "major fashion show.") Bekki was up half the night ripping the decoration off the sleeves of Meghann's brand-new equitation shirt, which had white yoke and rhinestones at the cuff; John doesn't want anything that might show untimely hand movement on Meghann's part and earn her a fault in horsemanship class. John and Jill take their pupils to watch the first few splits of horsemanship; both Meghann and Nicole have drawn a late round. Meghann is calm but determined. It's not her best class, though she's done well enough to tally nearly 40 youth points. "Until we started with the Briggses, she hadn't had any real horsemanship in--in a long time," explains Bekki. "You know, body position and all that. It's just been kind of ride by the seat of her pants. But now they're working on her position and all that. And she's really improving." John gives instructions. Meghann should ride aggressively. "I'd rather see her go down going for it than see her be too cautious," Jill says. As for Nicole, she has to do the opposite: calm down enough to pay attention to where she is in relation to the cones in the arena. Meghann's ride is beautiful, and she's confident she'll be called back for semifinals. She isn't. Meghann's parents seem more disappointed than she is. "It really isn't one of my best events," she says with a shrug. Meanwhile, back in the arena, Nicole is having a great run. ("It's the first equitation shirt I've ever bought Nicole," beams her mother, Jan.) Her mom is hopeful. Keep your fingers crossed, she advises. It works. Nicole is one of five riders in her split called back for the semifinals. "I need a drink," Jan announces, darting off during a quick break to the nearest bar, conveniently located next to the manicurist in an adjacent barn. The semifinalists include eight of the top-ranking youths in the nation. Nicole's semifinal run isn't as good as the first, and Jan holds her breath as the finalists are culled. Nicole is the fifth rider called back for the final round. "Yes!" yells Jan, halfway through her white Russian. "I didn't think she'd make it back," she confesses. After a short break, 18 finalists, including Nicole Story, enter the arena at a jog. Savvy, jockeying for position, Nicole is the sixth rider in. They go around once. "They're watching Nicole!" whispers her mother excitedly. Indeed, all eyes are glued to the young woman in black wool and black suede chaps and gold-beaded ultrasuede riding by other contestants. After one more round, a judge says something to a ring steward, who points at Nicole and motions her to the center. "She won!" yells Jan, her eyes like silver dollars. "I can't believe it!" But now something is terribly wrong. The gate is being opened as the others continue on the rail. Nicole turns, face expressionless, and slowly rides out of the arena. The gate closes behind her. "Oh God, what's wrong?" asks Jan, who runs toward the gate where her daughter has exited. In the well, a passel of parents and trainers are arguing with show officials. In the center stands Nicole, who has dismounted. No longer composed, she is holding the reins of her horse, great black rivulets of mascara running down her cheeks. "They gated her horse for lameness," explains a bystander. Although AQHA rules provide that "obvious lameness shall be a cause for disqualification" in horses, there is a lot of confusion about exactly what lameness is. The rules themselves provide as examples "marked nodding, hitching or shortened stride"--none of which seem to apply to Nicole's horse. In the end it is in the eye of the beholders--the four judges. Mother, a quiet, petite blonde whose southern-belle manners mask an intense competitiveness, swings into action. "Nicole's had such a tough time lately," Jan explains in a quieter moment, her big green eyes welling. "Her dad just died last month." Jan and Jill go to the show office to file a complaint. The show officials are sympathetic; they will help her file a grievance and determine what happened. After they leave, however, the show official shakes his head. "Three of the four judges had to call that horse lame for it to be thrown out," he says. "I just don't think they'd do that, embarrass someone that way, unless the horse was lame." Back at the barn, Meghann and Nicole have gone to the midway; as a sort of consolation prize, John and Jill let them take the golf cart. Exhausted, discouraged, the parents collapse into canvas chairs or onto precious $6.50-a-bale alfalfa. "I'm so confused," Jan Story says with a sigh. "It's the kind of thing that's so discouraging to the kids...and the moms. And the trainers." "You don't want to think it's political," agrees Vicki Parsons, Sibyl's mom. "Because then you can never win anything. "We put all this money and all this time into it, and everything is so subjective. The only way around it is to go into speed events." There is another way, of course: buy a great horse. Unfortunately, great horses cost great sums. It is not unusual for top show horses to sell in the range of $50,000 to $100,000. There are alternatives. "Many, many people who cannot afford $100,000 horses have had the opportunity to buy a great horse that does not pass the vet 100 percent," notes a guest editorial in a recent issue of Show Circuit, a glossy hunter-jumper magazine. "Through good management, care, and yes, some medication, they have been able to successfully compete at a level they probably could not afford to otherwise." Nicole's horse is an example. He is a nice animal--and one that might well have been far out of their price range, but for the fact that he didn't pass the vet's inspection. They bought him anyway, hoping the problem--a bone spur in his hock--could be managed. "I can't say that he who has the most money can't go out and buy the best horse," says Nancy Cahill. "But there are so many people who don't eat this week so they can have a nice horse too. It does cost a lot. But there are lots of people who start with just one, and take five years to make him, and he's a great one." Unfortunately, by the time most kids have the ability and experience to "make" one, they're out of the youth division. Meghann heads off to bed. Jan and her daughter head off for a little therapeutic shopping. The Congress features two massive barns filled with equine gear, a veritable traveling Neiman Marcus of jewelers' booths and $10,000 silver-trimmed show saddles and acres of $50,000 horse trailers knocked down to $45,000 as "Congress Specials." Almost half seem to have sold stickers. According to the Congress' marketing fliers, the average quarter horse owner spends $5,000 a year on sporting gear--and the people who come to Congress are hardly your average quarter horse owners. Wandering the endless aisles, Jan and Nicole begin to feel better. Besides, good southern girls, there's one thing they know: Tomorrow is another day. Unfortunately, it doesn't start off well. "He may have been fine yesterday, but he's definitely lame today," says Jill Briggs. Apparently, Nicole's horse is so sore he can't be ridden.." In the meantime,.

Coming Of Age In Reagan's America June 9, 2004 By The Plaid Adder Many years ago, before I really knew her well, a friend of mine mentioned that she would have to go back to the east coast that week for her mother-in-law's funeral. I said that I was sorry to hear about her mother in law passing away. She said, "Oh, don't be - she was an absolute cow, and everybody hated her." As constant readers will know, I don't shock easily; but that floored me. Although I believe in honesty, I felt that there was something brutal about her telling the truth in that particular situation. Later, I realized that this was sort of a thing with her: as a matter of principle, she refused to engage in what she felt was hypocrisy simply in order to comply with the unwritten law that dictates that we can never speak ill of the dead. To some extent, I can sympathize; there is something creepy about the way death revises history, and in the case of public figures it often seems to lead to a kind of national amnesia. At the same time, I think there is something - not necessarily positive, but necessary about the special treatment we extend to the dead. It's one way of recognizing our kinship with them, and acknowledge our own human limitations and failures. We have all, at various points in our life, done harm and done wrong and otherwise failed those around us; and we know that if it were us, we would want our survivors to pull that gauzy curtain across our lives so that only the good shines through. So the death of Ronald Reagan inspires me with strangely mixed feelings. Knowing as we all do that he had suffered for years with advanced Alzheimer's, and knowing as many of us do what advanced Alzheimer's does to its victims and their loved ones, we all realize that his death must have been a release for him and his family. As a harmless old man who has certainly suffered enough, Reagan has my best wishes for a peaceful crossing over; and his family has my sympathies. At the same time, I cannot forget that as a president, Reagan presided over many of the changes that took this country on its first steps down the steep slope along which it is now hurtling at an alarming clip; and that means that when I see people on television talking about what a wonderful president he was, I can't help but feel the spirit of my irreverent friend stirring within me. And when I remember the enormous stink made by Rove and his pack of hounds about the Democrats "politicizing" the memorial service held after Paul Wellstone died tragically and too young in a plane crash during his Senate campaign, and compare and contrast the lack of any kind of criticism leveled at Bush for swiftly incorporating Reagan's death and funeral into his own presidential campaign, well, it does start to sting a little. All the same, the man is dead, and I can't find it in my heart to go after Reagan with the same zest and gusto with which I routinely pursue his ideological bastard child, George W. Bush. And anyway I don't really want to. I never felt about Reagan the way I feel about Bushes I and II. When he defeated Carter in November of 1980, I was eleven years old. I came of age during the Reagan years; and for better or for worse, he is part of me too, as much as he is a part of the people who have turned out in their droves to mourn for him sincerely and with a real grief that I would never want to mock. So. * * * * One of my few clear memories of the 1980 presidential campaign is a TV commercial for Jimmy Carter. It showed him walking up the path toward the White House at dusk, briefcase in hand. A voice read out a list of all the things Carter had accomplished during his first term in office. Eventually Carter entered the White House, and after a few more seconds of voice-over you saw a light go on in the Oval Office as darkness fell. The voice said, "And he's still working." Fade to black. As I remember it now, there was a sense of defeat hanging over the whole spot; Carter seemed terribly burdened by his briefcase, and I felt bad for him having to work through the night. I don't remember any of Reagan's commercials that clearly. I'm sure they were much more positive and upbeat. That's one thing you keep hearing in the tributes; everyone loved that optimism. I don't remember feeling strongly about the 1980 election. In 1976, when my second-grade class held a mock election, I voted for Ford, because it seemed unfair to me to take his job away from him and give it to someone else. I remember going to my father's college reunion in 1977 and trying to pick a sign to carry in the parade. At the time, I didn't realize that they were all signs making fun of the new president. Most of them had to do with Carter's background as a peanut farmer from the south, which didn't seem that funny to me; after all, one of my father's aunts was a peanut farmer from the south, and he had always had tremendous respect for her. My mother wouldn't let me carry the sign that read "They're making hay in the White House," although she wouldn't explain to me why. I ended up carrying one that read "Wouldn't George Washington Carver be proud." Three years later I still was not old enough to really know or care about the differences between the Republicans and the Democrats. I was old enough to be disturbed by the hostage crisis. And I remember thinking that it was very unfair that the hostages got released right after Carter left office, as if it was done on purpose to spite him. That winter, after Reagan was shot by Hinckley, I wrote a little poem about praying for his safety. I was in sixth grade. At that point in my life I was really pretty conservative; I hated change, believed in God, thought swearing was bad, identified with authority, had no tolerance for rebels, and looked forward to preserving my virginity until my marriage. My mother was taking a course on liberation theology at a local Catholic university as part of a masters' degree. When my social studies teacher told us to do an oral report on a foreign country of our choice, I picked El Salvador. I read articles about the death squads and about U.S. military support for the right-wing regime. Knowing that teachers always rewarded you for incorporating visual aids into your presentations, I drew my first two political cartoons, only one of which I can now remember. It showed Alexander Haig standing in front of a stove holding a frozen TV dinner labeled "Cold War," and saying to himself, "Well, there's nothing else in the fridge. May as well heat this up." Before the presentation, I passed around a little questionnaire to the audience asking them what they knew about El Salvador and what they thought the U.S. should do. Afterwards I passed around the same questionnaire and had them take it again. The first questionnaire revealed that most of them knew very little about El Salvador, and there was no real consensus about what should be done. The second questionnaire showed strong support for a total U.S. pullout. I see this now not so much as a testament to my rhetorical skills as proof that people who have not kept themselves informed are alarmingly easy to manipulate. In the weeks that followed, as my fellow-students gave presentations on France and its many cheeses, I lost interest; and when, a year later, I encountered an seventh-grade history teacher who could not stop himself from ranting day in and day out about the evil things that our country was doing in the world, I was intensely annoyed with him. I dedicated one page of my notebook to writing down unspoken rebuttals to his diatribes. I didn't think to rip the page out before turning in my notebook for review; it came back with some of his comments scrawled in the margins, including the line, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." Looking back, I imagine that he saw that page as a sign of hope; after all, it proved that I was a) listening to him and b) engaged enough to be angry. And the only reason it upset me, of course, was that I really believed in America the beautiful. I was sold on the idea that America was fundamentally good and always acted altruistically and in the interests of freedom. And that, certainly, was how Ronald Reagan wanted me to feel; at least it was what was all over his speeches. Knowing that in the case of El Salvador our government had knowingly supported a regime with an abysmal human rights record solely because they believed it would advance our interests in the region somehow did not penetrate the idealistic vision of America that I had absorbed from the Reagan era media. I don't know how exactly I held on to both things at the same time, unless it was because everyone else was doing it. Just in time for the re-release of 1984, doublethink had arrived in America. Death squads became "freedom fighters;" ketchup became a vegetable; cutting taxes while increasing military spending became fiscal responsibility. Later on, when interactive fiction games were in vogue for those of us who were using those newfangled "personal computers," the game based on Douglas Adams's Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defined "intelligence" as the ability to believe two contradictory things at the same time. Adams, of course, never got to be one of Reagan constituents; but he had Margaret Thatcher, and really, it was almost as good. I began to lose that ability during the 1984 presidential campaign. In fact, I think I can pinpoint the moment at which it disappeared: it was during a debate between Reagan and Mondale, when I realized that Mondale was making sense and Reagan wasn't. I don't mean "making sense" in an ideological way; I'm talking about the ability to construct and articulate a coherent argument. At the same time, I noticed that the color in Reagan's cheeks was actually badly applied makeup, and that considerably more than Grecian Formula 44 had been called into play in an effort to disguise the obvious signs of advanced aging. Reagan was revealed to me as an actor who had been made up and thrust onto the stage to turn in a performance. He could still remember his lines with enough prompting; but when it came to improv, he was a disaster. Mondale lost in a landslide anyway. That was a turning point. For me, and for the country. For the country, it was an acknowledgment that they cared more about how their president made them feel than about what he was actually going to be doing. What that debate taught me was that the America I thought I was living in was in fact an illusion. The point was driven home for me again in January 1985 when I watched Reagan's second inaugural address on television. Toward the end of his speech, which he delivered with all the warmth, conviction, and sincerity that all of his mourners are remembering now, he talked about how this modern world of ours is "lit by lightning." The commentators pulled that line out afterwards as an example of what made him such a great speaker. Well, it is a good line; it had made a great impression on me when I first encountered it in the final speech of Tennessee Williams's play The Glass Menagerie. I kept waiting for one of the commentators to point out that it was actually Tennessee Williams who wrote that line, and that Reagan had merely borrowed it. Nobody ever did. It's a small thing; but it made a difference to me. In Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, Joe Gillis complains bitterly in a voiceover that the audience never realizes that someone had to sit down and write the movie they're watching: "They just think the actors make it up as they go along." But since Reagan's second inaugural I have never been able to forget that when a president stands up at the podium he is not reading his own words, and that the man we think we know is actually a character who has been written and produced by the crowd of speechwriters, advisors, and handlers that clusters around him. I know perfectly well that this was true for Kennedy as it was true for Clinton. Now that we live in a media age, we are doomed I suppose to personality politics; we are voting not so much for a man who can run the government as for a character that we are going to be following for the next four years, and so naturally we want it to be someone we enjoy watching. As important as television was for Kennedy, it was Reagan - our first actor-turned-president, but alas probably not our last - who was really our first made-for-television president. And once I knew that, I felt the same uneasiness about him then that I do now about the explosion of reality TV shows. I don't mind fiction. It is one of my greatest pleasures. It's when fiction starts passing itself off as reality that I start to get antsy. Reagan wasn't half bad as an actor. On television one time during his second term I saw him in a supporting role as "The Yank" in a World War II film called The Hasty Heart. He was funny, outgoing, full of heart, enormously sympathetic. As a president, at the same time, I began to find him very alarming. I remember my anxiety about the bombing campaign in Libya. Once again, I was still partly buying the media line: it was precisely because they had me so convinced that Qaddafi was an insane master villain bent on unleashing nuclear disaster that I was sure that by bombing him we would goad him into starting World War III. World War III fortunately never materialized, despite the fact that for the entire 1980s we all seemed to be expecting it. I couldn't watch all of The Day After; I fled just about as soon as the first bombs hit. But I do vividly remember being on the edge of my seat through the end of WarGames. And I have a very clear memory of watching the sun set one time at summer camp and hearing someone observe that it looked like a mushroom cloud, and then spending the next ten minutes wondering if it could actually be a mushroom cloud. Had World War III already started, somewhere far away? How would we know if it had? No wonder people loved Reagan. He had the gift of making them feel safe, whether or not they were. If Clinton rose to popularity on his ability to feel our pain, Reagan's gift was his ability to feel no pain, and to pass on that serene, optimistic, tranquilized bliss to everyone who followed him. And in the last phases of the Cold War, there was a great need for that. It's not his fault that for whatever reason, his magic had stopped working on me. Last night I went through old issues of my high school newspaper looking at my first weak attempts at political satire. Some of the pieces I remember writing appear to have been lost; but I came across something that surprised me. Every year we did an April Fool's issue. My contribution, one year, was an Onion-style piece reporting that Ferdinand Marcos was coming to my hometown to start a new career as a teacher in my high school's history department. Good Lord. I'd totally forgotten about Marcos. I had remembered that under Reagan's watch we illegally sold arms to Iran to fund the Contras in Nicaragua; that we supported the Mujaheddin against the Soviets in Afghanistan; that we supported Saddam Hussein's regime because it was antagonistic to Iran (to whom we were selling weapons on the sly - I know, it makes your brain hurt if you think about it too long); that we had defied the World Court in order to mine the Nicaraguan harbors. But I'd forgotten about Marcos, longtime dictator of the Phillippines and close personal friend of Ronald Reagan, who had his major political rival assassinated, held a phony investigation which cleared the assassins of wrongdoing, tampered with a supposedly 'free' election and then refused to acknowledge that his late rival's wife had won the popular vote anyway; and eventually had to flee the country after the rats deserted his sinking ship. At the time, however, I was apparently up on all this. There are numerous jokes about Marcos potentially interfering with student body elections, not being qualified to teach the elective on international law and human rights, and perhaps offering a course on political corruption, in which he has 'reportedly had some experience.' Nothing about Imelda and the shoes, though. I can't imagine why I passed that up. The piece now seems to exhale a kind of cynicism that must have been new to me at the time - an ironic acknowledgment that the corruptions we were supporting abroad would eventually come home, and that the amoral dictator of a third world country would fit right in among the citizens of a wealthy American suburb. It marks, I suppose, the end of one stage in my political education; and I have Ronald Reagan to thank for it. Reagan's passing will inevitably be referred to as the "end of an era" for weeks to come. But in so many ways, we are still in the Reagan era, despite the fall of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War. Or rather, we are in a darker, meaner, more dangerous version of the Reagan era. We are still playing kingmaker in the rest of the world, this time with Al Qaeda on the other edge of the board looming menacingly over the dominoes. Ivan Boesky and Michael Milkin have made way for Ken Lay and Dick Cheney. Roy Cohn's mantle has fallen on Karl Rove's shoulders. And even Reagan knew enough not to make Rumsfeld his secretary of defense. The genial, protective, fatherly God that Reagan so often invoked has transfigured into the wrathful avenging God of the Apocalypse. The "family values" rhetoric that started up on Reagan's watch has calcified into outright anti-gay and anti-feminist bigotry. We are now doing better in terms of treating AIDS, but we are no closer to acknowledging the realities we need to acknowledge in order to educate young people about it. I celebrated Clinton's inauguration in 1992 by yelling, "The Reagan years are over!" In fact, they were only on hiatus. Ironically, it may be George W. Bush who finally brings an end to the Reagan years, by taking his policies to such extremes that their effects can no longer be disguised by a firm handshake and the constant repetition of the word "freedom," and making the country a hell that even the glow of nostalgia cannot transfigure. Twenty years from now I will not look back on the first four years of the twenty-first century with one-tenth of the fondness with which, for all of their pain and trouble, I still remember the Reagan years. I only hope that in 2024, we will not be in some place that's even worse than here. The Plaid Adder's demented ravings have been delighting an equally demented online audience since 1996. More of the same can be found at the Adder's Lair. View the Adder's Archive

Official pgLOGd Home Download the Current Version: 2.3 Release Latest News: April 29, 2006 pgLOGd End of Life I have decided that further development of pgLOGd is not something I have time for, mostly because any time I would spend on pgLOGd I'm devoting to its successor, dbWebLog. March 17, 2006 pgLOGd does not work with Postgres 8.x I have received reports that pgLOGd does not work properly against Postgres 8.x. This is not really any big surprise to me since it has been over 2 years since I have actively worked on it. Sorry, sometimes that's the way it goes with a one-man Open Source projects, mostly because needing to eat (i.e. make real money) takes priority, as does having two children in the last 3 years. I'm sure the problems are due to the Postgres C-API changing between major releases, but I have not had time to confirm this or update pgLOGd. Description pgLOGd, simply put, is a program that takes web server (Apache) log entries and sends them to a database. It is called pgLOGd because of the database it was designed to function with, PostgreSQL. PostgreSQL is sometimes abbreviated as pg, this program LOGs entries, and it runs as a daemon (hence the d). Who should use pgLOGd? Almost (see requirements) anyone who runs a web server can use pgLOGd, however, sites that need 24x7 up-time on their web servers, or who run many virtual hosts, will benefit the most from pgLOGd. What does it cost? Nothing, it's Open Source (basically free.) The code is released under the BSD Open Source License Requirements In this version (2.3), the requirements are as follows: A PostgreSQL database installation. A Web Server capable of writing its log entries to a file and which has a customizable log entry format. pgLOGd was developed with Apache in mind and that is the recommend web server. A C compiler. After all, you get the source! The GNU gcc compiler is recommended (comes standard with most U*IX OSes.) A multi-tasking OS, FreeBSD is my preference and the development platform. Why PostgreSQL? Three primary reasons: The reason that most of us use the things we do, because we like them! I like PostgreSQL, so I use it. If you don't like PostgreSQL, I would dare to wager that you have never used it... PostgreSQL is fast. Yes, I said fast! Like Ford™® says: Have you driven PostgreSQL lately?If not, I highly recommend you check it out at PostgreSQL's homepage. It provides the asynchronous connection and query processing needed to make pgLOGd robust and fast. See the Features and README for details. Where do I get pgLOGd?Download the Source. Features Here I will list the prominent features of pgLOGd and briefly describe each one. For more detail about these features and how they came to be, see the pgLOGd README. Database logging. The primary feature that gave pgLOGd its name. Instead of writing log entries to a file, pgLOGd writes them to a database. The advantages of this method over logging to a file are explained in the README. Fast. pgLOGd was designed to be as fast as possible, just as if the web server was logging to a file. Robust. pgLOGd is smart and will attempt to recover from errors, network failures, and database problems when possible. Fall-Back-Logging. This is part of the robustness of pgLOGd. If the connection to the database fails for any reason, pgLOGd will begin to write the log entries to a temporary overflow file. pgLOGd will then attempt to re-establish the database connection every 30 seconds (configurable) until it restores the database connection. At this time pgLOGd will begin processing the overflow file entries to the database during idle moments. The overflow file will also be used when entries are coming in from the web server faster than they can be set to the database, which is how pgLOGd achieves its [as fast as writing to a file] speed. Then during slow periods the entries will be processed from the overflow file and sent to the database. Non-blocking. This is also what allows pgLOGd to be extremely responsive and fast, it never waits for anything to finish. Simply put, pgLOGd will ask the database to store an entry, then come back later to see if it was successful, instead of waiting around for the database to finish. This allows pgLOGd to continue processing entries from the web server while previous entries are being written to the database. The non-blocking functionality of pgLOGd is also one of the reasons why PostgreSQL was chosen, because of its excellent asynchronous connection and query processing provided by its C-API. Small system overhead and resource usage. pgLOGd runs as a single daemon process and typically uses less that 128K of memory. Flexible. pgLOGd was designed to be configurable and as system independent as possible. Installation and Configuration Setting up and operating pgLOGd is very straight forward, however there are some areas that may leave you asking why? Please see the README for complete details on the reasoning behind pgLOGd. Assumptions Never assume! ;-) But, I will assume: You know how to unTAR the source. Use a text editor. Use a C compiler. You are installing on a U*IX OS. Your Apache web server is up and running. Your PostgreSQL database is up and running and is version 7.1 or greater. DO NOT run pgLOGd on a PostgreSQL install less than 7.1! You have been warned. You have root access on the system to run pgLOGd. Precompile Edit the Makefile if your PostgreSQL installation is not in /usr/local/pgsql. PostgreSQL Backend Create an entry in the /path/to/postgres/data/pg_hba.conf file to allow connections from what ever machine your web server is running on. If your postmaster and web server are on the same box, this step can be skipped. Make sure your postmaster is running with the -i option, only needed if your web server is not running on the same box as the postmaster. Create a database, default name pglogd, but call it what you want, and create the required tables within the database. An SQL script is included with the source pglogd_tables.sql to do this: # su - postgres $ createdb pglogd $ psql pglogd < pglogd_tables.sql $ exit Compiling and Running pgLOGd To build the pglogd and pglogctl binaries: # make Solaris users: # make -DSOLARIS OpenBSD users: # make -DOPENBSD Copy them where ever you wish: # cp pglogd /usr/local/sbin/ # cp pglogctl /usr/local/bin/ Edit the pglogd.conf configuration file and copy it where ever you wish: pgLOGd default options are as follows: The database name will be: [ pglogd] The database user is: [ postgres] The database connection is: [ local, trusted host] PostgreSQL is installed at: [ /usr/local/pgsql] The log file will be written to: [ /var/log/pglogd.log] The FIFO file will be located at: [ /path/to/apache/logs/pglogd_fifo] The overflow file will be located at: [ /path/to/apache/logs/pglogd_overflow] Log overflow warnings every (n) entries: [ 100] Wake up at least every (n) seconds and check the database connection: [ 30] Strip virtual hosts back to top level domain only (1=true;0=false): [ 1] The name of the configuration file is not important, however, make sure you pass the same name to pglogd with the -c parameter. # cp pglogd.conf /usr/local/etc/pglogd.conf Start pglogd: # /path/to/binary/pglogd -c /path/to/config/file/pglogd.conf If there are any problems you will get an error message. If the daemon has already been created then there will be no terminal and errors will be written to the error log, typically in /var/log/pglogd.log unless you changed the location. Make sure that pgLOGd is always running before Apache and make sure it is shutdown after Apache! Apache Configuration Add these lines to your httpd.conf file: LogFormat "%t %T %>s %b %m %v %h \"%U\" \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-agent}i\" \"%r\" %l %u" pglogd Add this entry for each site you want pgLOGd to record log entries for: CustomLog "/path/to/apache/logs/pglogd_fifo" pglogd If you changed the location and name of the FIFO file, make the adjustment here as well. Restart Apache, usually done with: # /path/to/apache_binary/apachectl graceful Contributed Notes Linux RedHat-7.1 notes provided by Calvin Dodge NOTE: The addition of the -s flag in 2.1beta should solve the startup problem described below. *** advice for Red Hat users (assuming they installed PostgreSQL from RPMs) *** Be sure to have postgresql-devel installed. In the Makefile, change the following lines: "PGDIR=/usr/local/pgsql" to "PGDIR=/usr" "CFLAGS = -I${PGDIR}/include" to "CFLAGS = -I/usr/include/pgsql" Pglogd needs to be running before Apache starts, but after PostgreSQL starts. Unfortunately, the RedHat scripts start up Apache before PostgreSQL (they have the same start numbers (85), and "httpd" is less than "postgresql"). My solution was to: Edit /etc/init.d/postgresql - changing "chkconfig 85 15" to "chkconfig 80 20" (so it will start before and shutdown after Apache) chkconfig --del postgresql chkconfig --add postgresql chkconfig --level 345 postgresql on chkconfig --level 0126 postgresql off Create a pglogd script for the /etc/init.d directory. I copied the apache script, and edited it to remove irrelevant information, and to provide for "start", "stop", and "restart". Its chkconfig line has the numbers "83 17", so it will start after PostgreSQL and before Apache. chkconfig --add pglogd chkconfig --level 345 pglogd on chkconfig --level 0126 pglogd off Using pgLOGd Syntax: pgLOGd [-s] [-c <config file>] To start: # /path/to/binary/pglogd [-s] [-c <configuration file>] To stop: # kill -TERM [pid] NOTE: The overflow file only contains log entries that have passed parsing and are not checked again prior to processing. Adding entries to the overflow file manually is not recommended! If you decide you just have to do this, the format requires one pgLOGd style entry per line, each line not more than 16,768 bytes in length, and each line terminated with a single new-line character (character 10.) A better way to get log entries into pgLOGd manually would be to simply dump the file to the FIFO: # cat [some_file_in_pgLOGd_format] > /path/to/apache/logs/pglogd_fifo You can do this any time pgLOGd is running, however, I would not recommend doing this with really large files during peak traffic times. pgLOGd will write errors and other information to its log file, and it should not be too noisy as far as logging goes. Using pglogctl pglogctl can be used to generate log files from the pgLOGd database. The output format is the standard Combined Log Format. Description: Moves records from the log entries table into the temp entries table which has indexes. Also facilitates creation of Combined Log Format log files from the temp table. Syntax: pglogctl [-o | -m | -d | -p] domain startdate days Performance The initial tests here were done prior to the implementation of overflow logging and asynchronous non-blocking operation. Needless to say pgLOGd was capable of keeping up then, it should not have any problems now. Note, this test is very old. Test Results Tested on a Dual P2-333, 128MB RAM, 9GB SCSI (Seagate Barracuda) A quick insert test indicated that PostgreSQL can do about 11 to 28 inserts per second, depending on record size and number of indexes. Even at 11 per second, that is still over a million hits per day on a web server, so there should not be to much trouble with pglogd keeping up even on a heavily loaded server. Also, since the entries table does not have any indexes, the high end of the performance curve is realized, which means pglogd can easily keep up with a very heavy traffic site. If 28 inserts per second is not enough, then start your postmaster with these two options: -o -F That will shut off fsync and the inserts per second jump to about 800 per second!! What you lose is the ACID reliability of PostgreSQL by turning off fsync. But unless you are getting over 2 million hits in a 24 hour period, you should not have to do that. README Here I will attempt to explain why pgLOGd exists and the reasoning and theories behind its madness. If you agree, disagree, or have insight to share, by all means please don't hesitate to Email me. Contents - The Problem - Configuration and Rotation - Solutions - Review - The Design of Something Better - A New Log Format - Theory of Operation The Problem pgLOGd was, like many things, developed to resolve a problem for which there did not seem to be a complete solution. The problem is with the routine maintenance and configuration of the web server logs, particularly: The configuration of logs for many virtual sites on a web server. Regular log file rotation, archiving, and making them available to clients or statistics programs. There are also several smaller problems to which pgLOGd currently addresses or to which it will address in the near future: Generating log files in various formats. Generating multiple log files for each virtual site. Creating log files that are broken into certain date periods. Generating useful statistics based on the logs. Providing timely or real-time statistics based on the logs. Each of these points undoubtedly has a solution available, in one form or another, but it usually requires several command line utilities, CRON jobs, and administrator time to accomplish the tasks. Not to mention the frequency (daily, weekly, monthly) that the tasks require. Configuration and Rotation Configuration is not too bad if a system has already been devised, put in place, and is consistent. For example, names and locations of log files has already been decided, policy for rotation based on allowed disk space and bandwidth has been determined, and access to log files established. This can easily become quite an administrative chore (or nightmare) as the site count increases. Log file rotation was the primary motivator for the creation of pgLOGd. Sites will undoubtedly have more or less traffic than other sites, so when do you do rotation? On a busy site you might have to rotate the logs hourly, every 12 hours, or daily. On a smaller site, maybe once a week or once a month is sufficient. Also, when do your customers expect the logs to be available? Up to the minute (not possible with standard logs), twice a day, daily, weekly? So, now there has to be a policy and schedule set up for each site based on the site's traffic and customer expectation. Solutions The Apache Group does not provide any built-in solution, but they do provide all kinds of hooks and options (modules, external programs, excellent server configuration, etc.) One solution to the problem is to use the Apache option that lets you pipe the log entries to an external program, like cronolog. Cronolog is a nice little program that will automatically write the log entry to a file based on a date scheme that you can configure. This was the savior, cronolog seemed to solve all the problems: No stopping or restarting of the web server was necessary. The logs were automatically rotated into files based on dates. Each log file for each site could be configured independently. Does not require recompiling of Apache. But, Cronolog has some drawbacks: If the web server receives no traffic for a site then no log entries are generated and cronolog may miss a file in a sequence. Example: Say you need log files every 8 hours because your stats program fires up and looks for a file to run against. Now, say it is between midnight and 8am Sunday morning and your web site did not get a single hit. In this case cronolog will not have generated a log file for that time period, so if you didn't tell your stats program that a file for any given period may be missing, then the stats program will probably get mad and fire off a lot of errors or mess up your stats for that period. It could be worked around, but every solution was a bigger pain than the previous. The other issue that I could not accept was that for each web server child process that was spawned, two additional system processes were created as well! One for the shell that Apache starts to run the external program (cronolog in this case), and the program itself. This is not specific to just cronolog, but to any program you pipe the log entries out to. I already have enough processes to keep track of and I didn't need another 30 to 250 processes (depending on traffic) floating around, not to mention taking up CPU time, file descriptors, memory, etc. UPDATE about this point. I have since learned that if you pipe all your logs, virtual or not, to the same file, then Apache only spawns two processes for all the child processes. While this is good for limiting the process count, you are left with a single log file containing all the entries for all the sites running on the web server. Review A quick review of where we are and how we got here: The primary motivation for writing pgLOGd was a need to rotate Apache log files without stopping the server. Several other solutions were looked at and decided against: HUPing the server after moving the log files. Not too bad, but can be an administrative chore if you have many virtual sites to maintain. rotatelogs. A program that comes with Apache and looked like it was going to be a solution. It uses Apache's CustomLog pipe feature to send the log entries to some other program for processing. The downside of the pipe feature is that for every Apache child process (of which there could be many) you end up with two new system processes on your web server, one for the shell that Apache starts to run the external program, and the program itself. On a production server that can lead to a lot of additional processes and used resources (memory, file descriptors, CPU time.) cronolog. This was a little better than rotatelogs but still suffers from the same side affects (two new processes for each Apache child process.) It also suffers from missing log files due to no activity. Aside from the two additional processes per Apache child, there is the time to start up the additional processes, albeit a rather small time, but on a busy web server every clock tick counts. Nothing seemed acceptable. The Design of Something Better There had to be a better way to rotate log files. A way that was similar to writing directly to files, just as fast as writing to files, but that didn't add a bunch of system processes and overhead into the mix. Well, I couldn't find one, so I wrote one. Enter pgLOGd. I needed something with the following principles: Be fast, like logging to a file. Be robust and try to recover from errors. Small system overhead and resource usage. Single process. Non-blocking. Write to a database for ease of entry processing. Provide fall-back logging in case of database failure. Be flexible, work with any system configuration. pgLOGd was designed and written to adhere to each of these principles, which basically becomes its feature list. With the implementation of the fall-back logging, pgLOGd can handle log entries as fast the web server can send them, just like it was logging to a file, even if the database connection cannot keep up or goes completely down! A New Log Format One of the first things you will undoubtedly notice when setting up pgLOGd is the requirement of a custom log format instead of the generally accepted Common Log Format. Why is this? Well, first take a look at the Common Log Format: Common Log Format (CLF): "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" Common Log Format with Virtual Host: "%v %h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" NCSA extended/combined log format: "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-agent}i\"" Now take a look at all the parameters available for customizing a log entry (these tokens are for the Apache web server, other web server formating will most likely be different): There is quite a bit more useful information available that is not included in the Common Log Format. The first question that comes to mind is why so little information in the Common Log Format? One can only speculate, but it was most likely designed way back when log files did not grow very fast or very big, and when they were probably read by humans. The current state of the Internet makes reading raw log files almost unheard of, albeit unnecessary due to the availability of many free and commercial log analyzer programs. So why a new format? So why deviate from the normal, the Common Log Format? The primary reason has to do with parsing the log entry, and other reasons include the need to record some of the other useful information that is not part of the Common Log Format. First the parsing problem, so take another look at the Common Log Format followed by a typical line from a log file: "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" 10.0.0.1 - - [04/Sep/2001:19:34:59 -0400] "GET /index.html?userdata=badstuff HTTP/1.1" 200 9206 "" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0)" The first parameter is the remote host. Not too bad for parsing, especially if HostnameLookups is off (which it should be for any production or high volume web server) and IP address is very easy to parse. The second parameter is the remote logname. This is practically useless since visitors to your web site will probably not even be running an ident server. But worse than just being practically useless is the fact that if a person so chooses to set-up their own ident server they can, and that means they can configure the data that would be logged. This is bad. What if I configured my ident server to supply an ident name of: - - [04/Sep/200 Then the log entry would look something like this: 10.0.0.1 - - [04/Sep/200 - [04/Sep/2001:19:34:59 -0400] "GET /index.html?userdata=badstuff HTTP/1.1" 200 9206 "" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0)" Typically an ident entry is limited to about 15 characters, but that is plenty for me to do damage. Unless a log parser is very intelligent it will get choked up right here and most likely skip the line as invalid. This is because Common Log Format uses space characters as delimiters between the remote host, remote logname, and remote user; but space characters could be part of the ident (and remote user) data. What harm does this do? Well, if I don't want a company tracking me on their web site I could configure my ident server to report a logname similar to the one above and their log analyzer will most likely /dev/null the log entries generated by my activity on their web server. Unless someone digs into the logs by hand, I could bang away at their web site without being noticed, and maybe I'm a cracker trying to gain illegal access... The third entry, remote user, is just as bad. Again, user collected data right up front in the log entry. Remember, this data is not checked anywhere, it is passed straight from the remote client so it could contain control characters as well. I'm sure there may be a very excellent log analyzer out there that could overcome these problems, but the pay-off for the protection is speed. Such an analyzer, if possible, would be very slow and that is not an option with huge log file sizes on high traffic web servers. There is a better way... The pgLOGDd Log Format Solution Here is the format required by pgLOGd: %t %T %>s %b %m %v %h \"%U\" \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-agent}i\" \"%r\" %l %u Notice where the remote logname and remote user are placed. The format is designed to be parsed quickly by a computer and log information goes from the most trusted data to the least trusted (data from the remote client.) The format also includes useful data that cannot be attained by using the Common Log Format, such as the time it took the server to service the request. This can be very useful to the system admin so they know when it is time to invest in faster CPUs, more memory, or faster disk arrays. Don't worry though, pgLOGd's log format is a superset of the Common Log Format, so a Common Log Format log file can be produced to feed into your favorite log analyzer. Theory of Operation For those who are interested in how pgLOGd is intended to work, read on. The problem seemed impossible, and the solution only came after some digging around through man pages and with some consulting of "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment" by W. Richard Stevens (RIP). It seems that U*IX, since the beginning of time (well at least BSD-4.2), has had these nice little things called FIFOs or Named Pipes that allow communication between non-related processes. A FIFO, once created, looks and smells just like a file and is handled as if it were a file (they use the standard open(), read(), write(), and close() file operators.) The only caveats to the FIFO are: The file size never grows, it is always zero bytes. The FIFO should be opened for reading (usually by the process expecting data via the FIFO) before any other processes tries to write to it, otherwise the writing processes will block. So it seemed pretty straight forward: make a daemon that listens on a known FIFO and have Apache log all entries to that FIFO. The FIFO looks and acts like a file so it is fast and Apache treats it just like it was a regular log file. Almost there! The only other problem was that all entries were being written to the same log file (the FIFO), so for web servers hosting many virtual sites there needed to be a way to determine which entries were for which sites. That solution came with Apache's ability to make custom log file formats, and particularly with the %v parameter. That about solved all the problems and it was off to code the daemon. Initially error log entries were to be logged as well, but since error logs are not configurable and since they can be written by any number of different mods, there is no format. We will have to wait and see if The Apache Group changes this in the near future. Until then error logs will have to be dealt with in the usual ways, but they should not grow to much unless a site it having serious problems. pgLOGd Operation This is a verbal description of what goes on inside pgLOGd. For implementation details, consult the source code. pgLOGd begins by making sure it can access or create each of the fundamental components it requires: The FIFO. If it exists pgLOGd assumes it is already running and exits with an error. If it does not exist, pgLOGd creates it. A database. pgLOGd attempts to connect to the back-end database and exits with an error if a connection cannot be established. The overflow file. If it does not exist, it is created. If it does exists then pgLOGd counts the number of entries in the file and sets an internal counter to indicate that n number overflow entries are waiting to be written. Currently pgLOGd logs messages and errors directly to a file (instead of to a logging facility like syslog.) No error checking of any kind is done on this log file. Eventually pgLOGd will include options to take advantage of system logging such as syslog. With these checks complete, pgLOGd next calls fork() to begin the transition to a daemon process. The parent exits and the child process sets itself as the session leader. Next, all inherited file descriptors are closed and three signals are captured: SIGHUP. SIGINT. SIGTERM. These signals currently all do the same thing, cause pgLOGd to shut down. In the future, SIGHUP will cause pgLOGd to reread its configuration file, and SIGINT may perform some other tasks such as re-establishing the database connection, write its current state to the log file, etc. At this point pgLOGd enters a select() and waits for any of several things to happen: The FIFO is ready to be read. This usually indicates that the web server is sending a log entry. This action takes precedence over all other actions, as it is critical that the web server does not have to wait on pgLOGd. The database connection is ready for reading or writing. This could be due to a query result being ready to process or the processing of establishing the database connection (if it went down.) The overflow file has entries that are waiting to be written. This is the lowest priority and will only happen if neither the FIFO or the database connection need processing. Once an action is detected by select(), pgLOGd enters the state logic. A state machine, as it is typically known, is basically a set of logical states that a program can be in at any given time. Not all states are wired to all other states, so depending on certain conditions, only certain actions are possible. For pgLOGd, one of those states might be "database connection down", and from that state pgLOGd cannot get to the "write entry to database" state. pgLOGd's states are pretty straight forward, and the primary ones are described here: Nothing happening. select() will block for a predetermined amount of time (configurable), then wake up, check the database connection, and go back to waiting. If the database connection is down, pgLOGd enters the "database connection establish" state which will cause any new log entries to be written to the overflow file. Nothing happening, overflow entries pending processing. If overflow entries are waiting to be processed, and pgLOGd is not in the "database connection establish" state, pgLOGd will read an overflow entry and enter the "entry ready" state. FIFO data ready. pgLOGd enters the "read FIFO" state and begins consuming data. If an entry is found, the "read FIFO" state is exited and the "entry ready" state is entered. Otherwise pgLOGd enters the "eat FIFO data" state, which basically causes pgLOGd to consume and ignore all FIFO data until a valid entry is found. The "entry ready" state will determine where to write the entry based on the database connection and whether or not the entry came from the overflow file. If the database connection is up, pgLOGd will enter the "write to database" state. If the database connection is down and the entry was read from the FIFO, the "write to overflow file" state is entered. If the database connection is down and the entry was read from the overflow file, the "abort overflow entry" state is entered and the overflow entry is re-queued for processing. The "database connection establish" state blocks all database operation until the state is exited (only possible with a good connection.) If at any time an unrecoverable error is encountered, pgLOGd will write its current state to the log file and exit. Examples of unrecoverable errors are system function call failures such as: malloc(), read(), write(), and select(). Encountering an error caused by any of the aforementioned functions failing is currently not something pgLOGd can recover from. pgLOGd stays in the select() loop until one of several events happen. Any of these events will cause pgLOGd to shut down: One of the captured signals is received. An unrecoverable system error is encountered. A signal will cause pgLOGd to perform a "graceful" shut down, meaning it will close all its connections and shut down properly. An unrecoverable error may or may not allow pgLOGd to perform a "graceful" shut down, but it will certainly try.

Haloperidol (Systemic) VA CLASSIFICATION Primary: CN709 Secondary: CN900; GA609 Commonly used brand name(s): Apo-Haloperidol; Haldol; Haldol Decanoate; Haldol LA; Novo-Peridol; PMS Haloperidol; Peridol. Note: For a listing of dosage forms and brand names by country availability, see Dosage Forms section(s). Category: Antipsychotic— antidyskinetic (Gilles de la Tourette's syndrome; Huntington's chorea)— antiemetic— Indications Note: Bracketed information in the Indications section refers to uses that are not included in U.S. product labeling. Accepted Psychotic disorders (treatment)—Haloperidol is indicated for the management of the manifestations of acute and chronic psychotic disorders {18} {20} including schizophrenia , manic states, and drug-induced psychoses, such as steroid psychosis {02}. It may also be useful in the management of aggressive and agitated patients, including patients with organic mental syndrome or mental retardation. Haloperidol decanoate, a long-acting parenteral form, is intended for maintenance use in the management of patients requiring prolonged parenteral therapy, as in chronic schizophrenia . {01} Behavior problems, severe (treatment)—Haloperidol is effective in the treatment of children with severe behavior problems of apparently unprovoked, combative, explosive hyperexcitability {18} {20}. It is also effective in the short-term treatment of hyperactivity in children who show excessive motor activity with accompanying conduct disorders such as aggressiveness, impulsiveness, easy frustration, short attention span, and/or rapid mood fluctuations {18}. In these two groups of children, haloperidol should be tried only in patients who fail to respond to psychotherapy or other non-neuroleptic medication {18}. Gilles de la Tourette"s syndrome (treatment)—Haloperidol is used to control tics and vocalizations of Tourette"s syndrome in children and adults {18} {20}. [Autism, infantile (treatment)]1—Haloperidol has been used to reduce abnormal behaviors, such as withdrawal, stereotypy, abnormal object relationships, fidgetiness, hyperactivity, negativism, angry affect, and labile affect, and may improve learning, in some patients with autism {03}. [Chorea, Huntington"s {08} (treatment)]1—Because of its strong extrapyramidal effects, haloperidol is used to reduce disabling choreiform movements in Huntington"s disease {02}. [Nausea and vomiting, cancer chemotherapy–induced (prophylaxis and treatment)]1— Haloperidol is used as a second-line agent to control nausea and vomiting associated with antineoplastic therapy and surgery {02}. 1 Not included in Canadian product labeling. Pharmacology/Pharmacokinetics Note: Pharmacological effects of haloperidol are similar to the effects of piperazine-derivative phenothiazines, which include acetophenazine, fluphenazine, perphenazine, prochlorperazine, and trifluoperazine. Physicochemical characteristics: Chemical group— A butyrophenone derivative {18} {19} {20}. Molecular weight— Haloperidol: 375.87 Haloperidol decanoate: 530.12 Other characteristics Haloperidol oral solution: pH 2.75–3.75. Haloperidol injection: pH 3.0–3.8. Mechanism of action/Effect: Although the complex mechanism of the therapeutic effect is not clearly established {18} {20}, haloperidol is known to produce a selective effect on the central nervous system (CNS) by competitive blockade of postsynaptic dopamine (D 2) receptors in the mesolimbic dopaminergic system and an increased turnover of brain dopamine to produce its tranquilizing effects. With subchronic therapy, depolarization blockade, or diminished firing rate of the dopamine neuron (decreased release) along with D 2 postsynaptic blockade results in the antipsychotic action. {54} The long-acting decanoate form acts as a pro-drug, slowly and steadily releasing haloperidol from the vehicle. Other actions/effects: Blockade of dopamine receptors in the nigrostriatal dopamine pathway produces extrapyramidal motor reactions; blockade of dopamine receptors in the tuberoinfundibular system decreases growth hormone release and increases prolactin release by the pituitary. There is also some blockade of alpha-adrenergic receptors of the autonomic system. Absorption: Oral—60% {24} {25} {28}. Distribution: The volume of distribution of haloperidol at steady state (Vd SS) is 18 L per kg {24} {26}. Protein binding: Very high (92%) {24} {46}. Biotransformation: Hepatic; extensive {26}. Half-life: Haloperidol, Elimination: Oral: 24 hours (range, 12 to 37 hours) {25} {27} {28} {30}. Intramuscular: 21 hours (range, 17 to 25 hours) {27} {30}. Intravenous: 14 hours {25} {26} {27} {30} (range, 10 to 19 hours {25} {26}). Haloperidol decanoate, Elimination: Approximately 3 weeks (single {54} or multiple doses) {01} {04} {44} {45} {46}. Time to peak plasma concentration Oral—3 to 6 hours {20} {28} {29} {30}. Intramuscular—10 to 20 minutes {20} {30}. Long-acting intramuscular—3 to 9 days, although variable. May occur on first day in some patients, notably the elderly. {01} {04} {45} {46} Therapeutic plasma concentration 4 to 20 nanograms per mL (0.01 to 0.05 micromoles per L) {24} {44}. Elimination: Renal {20}— About 40% of a single oral dose is excreted in the urine within 5 days, 1% of which is unchanged drug {24}. A mean clearance value of 12 mL per kg per minute has been reported {26}. Biliary {20}— 15% of an oral dose is excreted in the feces by biliary elimination. Precautions to Consider Carcinogenicity/Tumorigenicity Neuroleptic drugs (including haloperidol) elevate prolactin concentrations; chronic administration of neuroleptic drugs. However, neither clinical studies nor epidemiologic studies conducted to date have shown an association between chronic administration of these drugs and mammary tumorigenesis; the available evidence is considered too limited to be conclusive at this time. {18} {19} {20} {24} Mutagenicity Haloperidol decanoate—No mutagenic potential was found in the Ames Salmonella microsomal activation assay {01} {19}. Pregnancy/Reproduction Fertility— Animal reproduction studies have shown decreased fertility with doses 2 to 20 times the usual maximum human dose of haloperidol. Pregnancy— For haloperidol Adequate studies in humans have not been done {18} {19}. However, there have been some reports of limb malformations with maternal use of haloperidol along with other drugs of suspected teratogenicity during the first trimester {18} {19}. Some rodent studies have shown an increase in incidence of fetal resorption, delayed delivery, and neonatal death with doses 2 to 20 times the usual maximum human dose of haloperidol {18}. Cleft palate has been observed in a study with mice given 15 times the human dose of haloperidol {18}. For haloperidol decanoate Adequate studies in humans have not been done. Studies in rats given up to three times the usual maximum human dose showed an increase in incidence of fetal resorption, fetal mortality, and neonatal mortality {01} {19}. FDA Pregnancy Category C {01} {19}. Breast-feeding Haloperidol is distributed into breast milk {19} {46}. Animal studies have shown that haloperidol is distributed into milk in quantities sufficient to cause sedation and motor function impairment in the nursing offspring. Breast-feeding during haloperidol therapy is not recommended. Pediatrics Haloperidol is not recommended for use in children up to 3 years of age. Children are highly susceptible to the extrapyramidal side effects, especially dystonias {15}, of haloperidol. Geriatrics Geriatric patients tend to develop higher plasma concentrations of haloperidol because of changes in distribution due to decreases in lean body mass, total body water, and albumin, and often an increase in total body fat composition {09}. These patients usually require lower initial dosage and a more gradual titration of dose. Elderly patients appear to be more prone to orthostatic hypotension and exhibit an increased sensitivity to the anticholinergic and sedative effects of haloperidol. In addition, they are more prone to develop extrapyramidal side effects, such as tardive dyskinesia and parkinsonism. The symptoms of tardive dyskinesia are persistent, difficult to control, and, in some patients, appear to be irreversible. The symptoms may be masked during long-term treatment, but may appear if haloperidol is discontinued. There is no known effective treatment. Careful observation during haloperidol therapy for early signs of tardive dyskinesia and reduction of dosage or discontinuation of medication may prevent a more severe manifestation of the syndrome. It has been suggested that elderly patients receive half the usual adult dose. Patients with organic mental syndrome or acute confusional states should initially receive one-third to one-half the usual adult dose {10}, with the dose being increased no more frequently than every 2 or 3 days, and preferably at intervals of 7 to 10 days. A periodic attempt should be made to discontinue medication as soon as the patient improves {09}. Dental The peripheral anticholinergic effects of haloperidol may decrease or inhibit salivary flow, especially in middle-aged or elderly patients, thus contributing to the development of caries, periodontal disease, oral candidiasis, and discomfort. Extrapyramidal reactions induced by haloperidol will result in increased motor activity of the head, face, and neck. Occlusal adjustments, bite registrations, and treatment for bruxism may be made less reliable. {11} The leukopenic and thrombocytopenic effects of haloperidol may result in an increased incidence of microbial infection,{18}{20} or » CNS depression–producing medications, other{18}{19}{20}{22}{23}{28} (see Appendix II ) (concurrent use with haloperidol may result in increased CNS and respiratory depression and increased hypotensive effects {15}) (concurrent use with haloperidol may potentiate alcohol intoxication {15}) Amphetamines{21}{22}{59} (concurrent use may decrease stimulant effects of amphetamines due to alpha-adrenergic blockade by haloperidol; also, the antipsychotic effects of haloperidol may be reduced when amphetamines and haloperidol are used concurrently) Anticholinergics or other medications with anticholinergic activity (see Appendix II ){21}{22}{23}{44} or Antidyskinetic agents{18}{19}{20} or Antihistamines (concurrent use with haloperidol may intensify anticholinergic side effects, especially those of confusion, hallucinations, nightmares, and increased intraocular pressure, because of secondary anticholinergic effects of haloperidol; also, patients should be advised to report occurrence of gastrointestinal problems since paralytic ileus may occur with concurrent therapy; in addition, antipsychotic effectiveness of haloperidol may be decreased because of reduced gastrointestinal absorption; dosage adjustments may be necessary) Anticoagulants{18}{20}{21}{22}{28}{59} , coumarin- or indandione-derivative (concurrent use with haloperidol may either increase or decrease anticoagulant activity; although the clinical significance has not been determined, caution is recommended ) Anticonvulsants, including barbiturates{18}{19}{20}{21}{22}{23}{44}{59} (concurrent use with haloperidol may cause a change in the pattern and/or frequency of epileptiform seizures; dosage adjustments of anticonvulsants may be necessary; serum concentrations of haloperidol may be significantly reduced) Antidepressants, tricyclic{21}{22}{23}{59} or Maprotiline{33}{34}{59} or Monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors, including furazolidone, procarbazine, or selegiline or Trazodone (concurrent use with haloperidol may prolong and intensify the sedative and anticholinergic effects of either these medications or haloperidol) Bromocriptine{35} (concurrent use with haloperidol may increase serum prolactin concentrations and interfere with effects of bromocriptine; dosage adjustment of bromocriptine may be necessary) Bupropion{36}{37}{38} (concurrent use of bupropion with haloperidol may lower the seizure threshold and increase the risk of major motor seizures) Diazoxide{22}{39} (concurrent use antagonizes the inhibition of insulin release by diazoxide) Dopamine (concurrent use may antagonize peripheral vasoconstriction produced by high doses of dopamine because of the alpha-adrenergic blocking action of haloperidol) Ephedrine{17} (concurrent use may decrease the pressor response to ephedrine) » Epinephrine{17}{20}{59} (concurrent use may block the alpha-adrenergic effects of epinephrine, possibly resulting in severe hypotension and tachycardia) » Extrapyramidal reaction–causing medications, other (see Appendix II ) (concurrent use with haloperidol may increase the severity and frequency of extrapyramidal effects) Fluoxetine{40}{41}{59} (caution in concurrent use of fluoxetine with haloperidol is recommended because of a potentially increased risk of CNS side effects, particularly extrapyramidal reactions {52} {60} {61}) Guanadrel or Guanethidine{20}{21}{22}{23}{59} (concurrent use with haloperidol may decrease the hypotensive effects of these agents because of displacement from and inhibition of uptake into alpha-adrenergic neurons) » Levodopa{22}{59} or Pergolide{42} (concurrent use may decrease the therapeutic effects of these agents because of blockade of dopamine receptors by haloperidol) » Lithium{18}{19}{20}{21}{22}{23}{28}{44} (lithium is frequently used concurrently with haloperidol during the first week or two of treatment for acute manic episodes; lithium alone may be adequate thereafter, although some patients may continue to need both {02}; however, concurrent use with haloperidol has been associated with irreversible neurological toxicity and brain damage, especially in patients with organic mental syndrome or other CNS impairment, although this interaction has been reported only with high doses {16} {52}; extrapyramidal symptoms may be increased by haloperidol's enhancement of dopamine blockade; patients should be monitored closely during concurrent use; dosage adjustments or discontinuation of treatment may be necessary) (admixture of the liquid forms of lithium and haloperidol may result in precipitation of free haloperidol) Metaraminol (concurrent use with haloperidol usually decreases, but does not reverse or completely block, the pressor response to metaraminol, because of the alpha-adrenergic blocking action of haloperidol) Methoxamine (prior administration of haloperidol may decrease the pressor effect and duration of action of methoxamine because of the alpha-adrenergic blocking action of haloperidol) Methyldopa{20}{21}{22}{23}{59} (concurrent use with haloperidol may cause unwanted mental effects such as disorientation and slowed or difficult thought processes) Phenylephrine (prior administration of haloperidol may decrease the pressor response to phenylephrine because of the alpha-adrenergic blocking action of haloperidol) Laboratory value alterations The following have been selected on the basis of their potential clinical significance (possible effect in parentheses where appropriate)—not necessarily inclusive (» = major clinical significance): With diagnostic test results ECG (prolongation of the Q-T interval and changes compatible with configuration of torsades de pointes may occur {62} {63}): » CNS depression, toxic, drug-induced, severe{18}{19}{20} (may be potentiated) Risk-benefit should be considered when the following medical problems exist Alcoholism, active (CNS depression may be potentiated; risk of heat stroke may be increased {15}) » Cardiovascular disease, severe, especially angina{18}{19}{20} (transient hypotension and anginal pain may be provoked) » Epilepsy{18}{19}{20} (seizure threshold may be lowered) Glaucoma or predisposition to{18}{19}{20} (may be potentiated because of secondary anticholinergic effects of haloperidol) Hepatic function impairment{18}{19}{20} (metabolism may be altered) Hyperthyroidism or thyrotoxicosis{18}{19}{20} (severe neurotoxicity such as rigidity and inability to walk or talk may result) » Parkinson's disease{18}{19}{20}{53} (may be potentiated) Pulmonary insufficiency, such as asthma, emphysema, or acute pulmonary infections (potentiation of breathing impairment may possibly lead to “silent pneumonias”) Renal function impairment{20} (excretion may be altered; more applicable to higher dosage since renal clearance of unchanged drug is relatively low) » Sensitivity to haloperidol (patients with known allergies or with a history of allergic reactions to other medications may also be sensitive to haloperidol {01} {18} {19} {20}) » Urinary retention{18}{19}{20} (may be potentiated) Patient monitoring The following may be especially important in patient monitoring (other tests may be warranted in some patients, depending on condition; » = major clinical significance): Blood cell counts and differential in patients with sore throat and fever or infections (may be required during high-dose or prolonged therapy when symptoms of infection develop; if significant cellular depression occurs, medication should be discontinued and appropriate therapy initiated; rechallenge in recovered patients will usually cause a recurrence of agranulocytosis {15}) Careful observation for early signs of dehydration, such as lethargy and decreased sensation of thirst (recommended at periodic intervals, especially in elderly or debilitated persons, for prevention of bronchopneumonia) Careful observation for early symptoms of tardive dyskinesia (recommended at periodic intervals, especially in the elderly and patients on high or extended maintenance dosage; since there is no known effective treatment if syndrome should develop, haloperidol should be discontinued, if clinically feasible, at earliest signs, usually fine, worm-like movements of the tongue, to stop further development) Careful observation for early symptoms of tardive dystonia (recommended at periodic intervals; since there is no known effective treatment if syndrome should develop, haloperidol should be discontinued, if clinically feasible, at the earliest signs) Careful observation for signs of overdose or insufficient dosing with haloperidol decanoate (recommended during initial dosing adjustments; since haloperidol decanoate slowly increases to steady state plasma concentration over 2 to 4 months, accumulation to excessive levels may occur; if psychotic symptoms reappear before next dose, therapy can be supplemented with short-acting forms of haloperidol {01}) Hepatic function determinations (may be required at periodic intervals during high-dose or prolonged therapy or if jaundice or grippe-like symptoms occur, to detect liver function impairment) Note: A few cases of sudden and unexpected death have been reported in patients who were receiving haloperidol therapy. However, there is no definite evidence that haloperidol is a causative factor. {18} {19} Children are highly susceptible to extrapyramidal effects. Geriatric and debilitated patients are more prone to develop extrapyramidal side effects and orthostatic hypotension and usually require a lower initial dosage and a more gradual titration of dose. The following side/adverse effects have been selected on the basis of their potential clinical significance (possible signs and symptoms in parentheses where appropriate)—not necessarily inclusive: Those indicating need for medical attention Incidence more frequent Akathisia (restlessness or need to keep moving) dystonic extrapyramidal effects{18}{19}{20} (muscle spasms of face, neck, and back; tic-like or twitching movements; twisting movements of body; inability to move eyes; weakness of arms and legs) parkinsonian extrapyramidal effects{18}{19}{20} (difficulty in speaking or swallowing; loss of balance control; mask-like face; shuffling walk; stiffness of arms or legs; trembling and shaking of hands and fingers) Note: Akathisia may appear within first 6 hours after dose; often indistinguishable from psychotic agitation; differentiation with benztropine may improve haloperidol-induced akathisia but not psychotic agitation. {08} Dystonic extrapyramidal effects appear most often in children and young adults and early in treatment; may subside within 24 to 48 hours after drug has been discontinued. Parkinsonian extrapyramidal effects are more frequent in the elderly; symptoms may be seen in the first few days of treatment or after prolonged treatment, and can recur after even a single dose. Incidence less frequent Allergic reaction{18}{19} (red and raised, or acne-like skin rash) anticholinergic effects{18}{19}{20} (difficult urination; hallucinations) CNS effect{18}{19}{20} (hallucinations) decreased thirst, or unusual tiredness or weakness orthostatic hypotension{18}{19} (dizziness, lightheadedness, or fainting) persistent tardive dyskinesia{18}{19}{20} (lip smacking or puckering; puffing of cheeks; rapid or worm-like movements of tongue; uncontrolled chewing movements; uncontrolled movements of the arms and legs) Note: Decreased thirst or unusual tiredness or weakness may precede dehydration, hemoconcentration, reduced pulmonary ventilation, and bronchopneumonia; occur most often in elderly or debilitated patients {18} {19} {20}. Tardive dyskinesia is more frequent in elderly patients, women, and patients with brain damage {15}; initially dose related, but may increase with long-term treatment and total cumulative dose; may persist after discontinuation of haloperidol {18} {19} {20}. Incidence rare Agranulocytosis{18}{19}{20} (sore throat and fever; unusual bleeding or bruising) heat stroke{18}{19}{20} (hot, dry skin; inability to sweat; muscle weakness; confusion) obstructive jaundice{18}{19}{20} (yellow eyes or skin) neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS){18}{19}{20} (difficult or unusually fast breathing; fast heartbeat or irregular pulse; high fever; high or low [irregular] blood pressure; increased sweating; loss of bladder control; severe muscle stiffness; seizures; unusual tiredness or weakness; unusually pale skin) tardive dystonia{18}{54}{55}{56} (increased blinking or spasms of eyelid; unusual facial expressions or body positions; uncontrolled twisting movements of neck, trunk, arms, or legs) Note: Heat stroke, caused by haloperidol-induced suppression of central and peripheral temperature regulation in the hypothalamus {12}, may occur during environmental conditions of high heat and high humidity. The effectiveness of sweating as a cooling mechanism may be reduced by humid conditions and by the anticholinergic effects of haloperidol, used alone or in combination with other anticholinergic medications such as nonprescription cold medications or antihistamines. Adequate interior temperature control (air conditioning) must be maintained for institutionalized patients during hot weather because of the increased risk of heat stroke and NMS. {13} Patients should be advised to avoid exertion, stay in cool areas, and avoid dehydration and other anticholinergic medications. {15} NMS may occur at any time during neuroleptic therapy, but is more commonly seen soon after start of therapy, or after patient has switched from one neuroleptic to another, during combined therapy with another psychotropic medication, or after a dosage increase. Along with the overt signs of skeletal muscle rigidity, hyperthermia, autonomic dysfunction, and altered consciousness, differential diagnosis may reveal leukocytosis (9500 to 26,000 cells per cubic millimeter), elevated liver function test values, and elevated creatine kinase (CK). {12} Those indicating need for medical attention only if they continue or are bothersome Incidence more frequent Blurred vision{18}{19}{20} changes in menstrual period{18}{19}{20} constipation{18}{19}{20} dryness of mouth{18}{19}{20} swelling or soreness in breasts in females{18}{19}{20} unusual secretion of milk{18}{19}{20} weight gain Incidence less frequent Decreased sexual ability{18}{19}{20} drowsiness{18}{19}{20} increased sensitivity of skin to sun{18}{19} nausea or vomiting{18}{19}{20} Those indicating the need for medical attention if they occur after the medication is discontinued Withdrawal emergent dyskinesia{18}{19}{20} (trembling of fingers and hands; uncontrolled, repetitive movements of mouth, tongue, and jaw)—more frequent in elderly patients, women, and patients with brain damage{15} Overdose For specific information on the agents used in the management of haloperidol overdose, see: • Albumin Human (Systemic) monograph; • Benztropine in Antidyskinetics (Systemic) monograph; • Charcoal, Activated (Oral-Local) monograph; • Diphenhydramine in Antihistamines In general, symptoms of overdose may be an exaggeration of adverse effects. Patient would appear comatose with respiratory depression and hypotension severe enough to produce a shock-like state. The following effects have been selected on the basis of their potential clinical significance (possible signs and symptoms in parentheses where appropriate)—not necessarily inclusive: Severe breathing difficulty {18} {19} dizziness {18} {19} severe drowsiness or comatose state {18} {19} severe muscle trembling, jerking, stiffness, or uncontrolled movements {18} {19} {20} severe tiredness or weakness {18} {19} Treatment of overdose Treatment is essentially symptomatic and supportive. To decrease absorption: Inducing emesis or initiating gastric lavage, immediately followed by administration of activated charcoal {18} {20}. Specific treatment: Counteracting hypotension and circulatory collapse by use of intravenous fluids, plasma, or concentrated albumin, and vasopressor agents such as norepinephrine. Epinephrine should not be used since it may cause paradoxical hypotension. {18} {19} {20} Administering benztropine or diphenhydramine to manage severe extrapyramidal reactions {18} {19} {20}. Monitoring: Monitoring ECG for signs of Q-T prolongation or torsades de pointes . Severe arrhythmias should be treated with appropriate antiarrhythmic measures. {62} {63} Supportive care: Establishing a patent airway {18} {19} {20}. Mechanically assisting respiration, if necessary {18} {19} {20}. Patients in whom intentional overdose is known or suspected should be referred for psychiatric consultation. Note: Dialysis is not effective in removing excessive systemic haloperidol. Patient Consultation As an aid to patient consultation, refer to Advice for the Patient, Haloperidol (Systemic). In providing consultation, consider emphasizing the following selected information (» = major clinical significance): Before using this medication » Conditions affecting use, especially: Sensitivity to haloperidol Pregnancy—Reports of limb malformations after maternal use of haloperidol with other drugs of suspected teratogenicity during first trimester; animal reproduction studies have shown a decrease in fertility, increased incidence of fetal resorption, delayed delivery, and neonatal death with very high doses Breast-feeding—Distributed into breast milk; animal studies have shown sedation, impaired motor function in nursing offspring; not recommended for use during breast-feeding Use in children—Children are more prone to extrapyramidal symptoms, especially dystonias Use in the elderly—Elderly patients are more likely to develop extrapyramidal, anticholinergic, hypotensive, and sedative effects; reduced dosage recommended Dental—Haloperidol-induced blood dyscrasias may result in infections, delayed healing, and bleeding; dry mouth may cause caries, candidiasis, periodontal disease, and discomfort; increased motor activity of face, head, and neck may interfere with some dental procedures Other medications, especially alcohol, other CNS depression–producing medications, epinephrine, other extrapyramidal reaction–producing medications, levodopa, or lithium Other medical problems, especially severe cardiovascular disease, severe CNS depression, Parkinson's disease, allergies, epilepsy, or urinary retention Proper use of this medication Taking with food or milk to reduce gastrointestinal irritation Proper administration of oral liquid form: • Using special dropper • Mixing with water or a beverage such as orange juice, apple juice, tomato juice, or cola; not mixing with tea or coffee » Importance of not taking more or less medication than the amount prescribed » Compliance with therapy; may require several weeks of therapy to obtain desired effects » Proper dosing Missed dose: Taking as soon as possible; taking any remaining doses for that day at regularly spaced intervals; not doubling doses » Proper storage Precautions while using this medication Regular visits to physician to check progress of therapy » Checking with physician before discontinuing medication; gradual dosage reduction may be needed » Avoiding use of alcoholic beverages or other CNS depressants during therapy » Possible drowsiness or dizziness; caution when driving, using machinery, or doing things requiring alertness {18} {19} {20} Possible dizziness or lightheadedness: caution when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position » Possible heat stroke: caution during exercise, hot baths, or hot weather {06} Avoiding the use of over-the-counter medications for colds or allergies, to prevent increased anticholinergic effects and risk of heat stroke {15} » Caution if any kind of surgery, dental treatment, or emergency treatment is required; telling physician or dentist in charge about taking haloperidol because of possible drug interactions or blood dyscrasias {15} Possible skin photosensitivity; avoiding unprotected exposure to sun; using protective clothing; using a sun block product that includes protection against both UVA-caused photosensitivity reactions and UVB-caused sunburn reactions; avoiding use of sunlamp, tanning bed, or tanning booth {15} Possible dryness of mouth; using sugarless gum or candy, ice, or saliva substitute for relief; checking with physician or dentist if dry mouth continues for more than 2 weeks If taking liquid form, avoiding contact with skin (to prevent contact dermatitis) Observing precautions for up to 6 {14} weeks with long-acting parenteral form Side/adverse effects » Stopping medication and notifying physician immediately if symptoms of neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS) appear Extrapyramidal effects are more likely to occur in children, the elderly, and debilitated patients Notifying physician as soon as possible if early symptoms of tardive dyskinesia appear Possibility of withdrawal symptoms Signs of potential side effects, especially akathisia, dystonias, parkinsonism, allergic reaction, anticholinergic effects, CNS effect, decreased thirst, unusual tiredness or weakness, orthostatic hypotension, tardive dyskinesia or dystonia, blood dyscrasias, heat stroke, obstructive jaundice, and neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS) General Dosing Information See also Patient monitoring . Dosage must be individualized by titration from the lower dose range {18}. After a favorable response is noted (usually within 3 weeks), the proper maintenance dosage should be determined by gradually decreasing to the lowest level of therapeutic dosage that will maintain an adequate clinical response {20}. The antiemetic effect of haloperidol may mask signs of drug toxicity or may obscure diagnosis of conditions in which the primary symptom is nausea {20}. When extended therapy is discontinued, a gradual reduction in haloperidol dosage over several weeks is recommended, since abrupt withdrawal may cause some patients on high or long-term dosage to experience withdrawal-emergent neurological symptoms. Avoid skin contact with haloperidol oral solution; contact dermatitis has been reported {64}. For oral dosage forms only Because undiluted haloperidol concentrated oral solution may irritate mucous membranes, the dose should be diluted with water or beverages having a pH less than 4 (such as orange juice, apple juice, tomato juice, or cola). The dilution should be prepared immediately prior to administration to prevent precipitation. If mixed with coffee, tea, or lithium citrate syrup, free haloperidol will precipitate. {64} {65} For long-acting dosage form only Patients being considered for haloperidol decanoate therapy should be first converted to oral haloperidol from any other neuroleptic they may have been taking to prevent unexpected adverse sensitivity to haloperidol. Variations in patient response may require adjustments of dose and dosing intervals {18}. Each patient must be carefully supervised to determine the optimal dosing interval and lowest effective dose, depending on patient's response, age, physical condition, symptoms, severity of illness, and drug history {15}. Effects of the extended-action injectable form may last up to 6 weeks in some patients. The side effects information and precautions apply during this period of time. Diet/Nutrition Haloperidol tablets may be taken with food or a full glass (240 mL) of water or milk if necessary to lessen gastrointestinal irritation. To prevent mucosal irritation, haloperidol oral solution should be diluted in water or beverages such as orange juice, apple juice, tomato juice, or cola immediately prior to administration {64}. For treatment of adverse effects Neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS): Treatment is essentially symptomatic and supportive and includes the following • Discontinuing haloperidol immediately. Neuroleptic malignant syndrome after injection of long-acting haloperidol decanoate may be difficult to treat because of this dosage form's long half-life. • Hyperthermia—Administering antipyretics (aspirin or acetaminophen); using cooling blanket. • Dehydration—Restoring fluids and electrolytes. • Cardiovascular instability—Monitoring blood pressure and cardiac rhythm closely. • Hypoxia—Administering oxygen; considering airway insertion and assisted ventilation. • Muscle rigidity—Dantrolene sodium may be administered (100 to 300 mg per day in divided doses; 1.25 to 1.5 mg per kg of body weight, intravenously). Bromocriptine (5 to 7.5 mg every eight hours) has been used to reverse hyperpyrexia and muscle rigidity. {06} Parkinsonism, severe: Many authorities advise that the only appropriate treatment of extrapyramidal symptoms is reduction of the antipsychotic dosage, if possible. Oral antidyskinetic agents such as trihexyphenidyl, 2 mg three times per day, or benztropine, may be effective in treating more severe parkinsonism and acute motor restlessness but are used sparingly, and then usually for no longer than 3 months. Extrapyramidal symptoms may reappear if both haloperidol and the antidyskinetic agent are discontinued simultaneously. The antidyskinetic agent may have to be continued after haloperidol is discontinued because of different excretion rates. Milder effects may be treated by adjusting dosage. {05} Akathisia: May be treated with antiparkinsonian medications, or with propranolol (30 to 120 mg per day), nadolol (40 mg per day), pindolol (5 to 60 mg per day) {43} {50} {51} {52}, lorazepam (1 or 2 mg two or three times a day), or diazepam (2 mg two or three times a day {02} {06} {50} {53}). Dystonia: Acute dystonic postures or oculogyric crisis may be relieved by parenteral administration of benztropine (2 mg intramuscularly); or diphenhydramine (50 mg intramuscularly); or diazepam (5 to 7.5 mg intravenously), to be followed by oral antidyskinetic medication for one or two days to prevent recurrent dystonic episodes. Dosage adjustments of haloperidol may control these effects, and discontinuation of haloperidol may reverse severe symptoms in weeks to months. Tardive dyskinesia or tardive dystonia: No known effective treatment. Dosage of haloperidol should be lowered or medication discontinued, if clinically feasible, at earliest signs of tardive dyskinesia or tardive dystonia, to prevent possible irreversible effects. Oral Dosage Forms Note: Bracketed uses in the Dosage Forms section refer to categories of use and/or indications that are not included in U.S. product labeling. HALOPERIDOL ORAL SOLUTION USP Usual adult and adolescent dose Antipsychotic; antidyskinetic Oral, 500 mcg (0.5 mg) to 5 mg two or three times a day initially, the dosage being gradually adjusted as needed and tolerated {18}. Usual adult prescribing limits 100 mg a day {18} {20}. Usual pediatric dose Psychotic disorders 150 mcg (0.150 mg) per kg of body weight a day {18}. Nonpsychotic behavior disorders and Tourette's syndrome 75 mcg (0.075 mg) per kg of body weight a day {18}. Alternatively, some clinicians recommend that, in the treatment of Tourette's syndrome, the initial daily dose be administered at bedtime to avoid daytime sedation {49}. [Infantile autism]1 Children younger than 3 years of age: Safety and efficacy have not been established {18}. Children 3 to l2 years of age or 15 to 40 kg of body weight: Oral, 25 mcg (0.025 mg) per kg of body weight a day, up to 50 mcg (0.05 mg) per kg of body weight a day. Note: There is little evidence that pediatric dosages exceeding 6 mg a day produce additional improvement in behavior {18} or in tics {49}. Usual geriatric dose Oral, 500 mcg (0.5 mg) to 2 mg two or three times a day, the dosage being increased gradually as needed and tolerated {18}. Note: The dose for debilitated patients is the same as the geriatric dose {18}. Strength(s) usually available U.S.— 2 mg per mL (Rx) [Haldol (methylparaben)][Generic] Canada— 2 mg per mL (Rx) [Apo-Haloperidol] [Novo-Peridol] [Peridol] [PMS Haloperidol][Generic] Packaging and storage: Store below 40 °C (104 °F), preferably between 15 and 30 °C (59 and 86 °F), unless otherwise specified by manufacturer. Store in a tight, light-resistant container. Protect from freezing. Incompatibilities: Insoluble precipitate of haloperidol is formed when mixed with coffee, tea or lithium citrate syrup. Auxiliary labeling: • May cause drowsiness. • Avoid alcoholic beverages. Note: Avoid skin contact with liquid forms of this medication; contact dermatitis has been reported. Each dose must be diluted in water or a beverage such as orange juice, apple juice, tomato juice, or cola, immediately prior to administration. Provide patient with specially marked dosage dropper and explain use if necessary. HALOPERIDOL TABLETS USP Usual adult and adolescent dose See Haloperidol Oral Solution USP . Usual adult prescribing limits See Haloperidol Oral Solution USP . Usual pediatric dose See Haloperidol Oral Solution USP . Usual geriatric dose See Haloperidol Oral Solution USP . Strength(s) usually available U.S.— 500 mcg (0.5 mg) (Rx) [Haldol][Generic] 1 mg (Rx) [Haldol (tartrazine)][Generic] 2 mg (Rx) [Haldol][Generic] 5 mg (Rx) [Haldol (tartrazine)][Generic] 10 mg (Rx) [Haldol (tartrazine)][Generic] 20 mg (Rx) [Haldol][Generic] Canada— 500 mcg (0.5 mg) (Rx) [Apo-Haloperidol] [Haldol] [Novo-Peridol] [Peridol (scored)][Generic] 1 mg (Rx) [Apo-Haloperidol] [Haldol (tartrazine)] [Novo-Peridol] [Peridol (scored)][Generic] 2 mg (Rx) [Apo-Haloperidol] [Haldol (metabisulfite)] [Novo-Peridol] [Peridol (scored)][Generic] 5 mg (Rx) [Apo-Haloperidol] [Haldol (tartrazine)] [Novo-Peridol] [Peridol (scored)][Generic] 10 mg (Rx) [Apo-Haloperidol] [Haldol (tartrazine)] [Novo-Peridol] [Peridol (scored)][Generic] 20 mg (Rx) [Haldol (metabisulfite)] [Novo-Peridol][Generic] Packaging and storage: Store below 40 °C (104 °F), preferably between 15 and 30 °C (59 and 86 °F), unless otherwise specified by manufacturer. Store in a tight, light-resistant container. Auxiliary labeling: • May cause drowsiness. • Avoid alcoholic beverages. Parenteral Dosage Forms HALOPERIDOL INJECTION USP Usual adult and adolescent dose Acute psychosis Intramuscular, 2 to 5 mg initially, the dosage being repeated at one-hour intervals if necessary, or at four- to eight-hour intervals if symptoms are satisfactorily controlled {18}. Note: For the rapid control of acute psychosis or delirium, haloperidol has also been administered intravenously, in doses of 0.5 to 50 mg {30} {31} at a rate of 5 mg per minute {31}, the dose being repeated as needed at 30-minute intervals {30} {31}. Alternatively, the dose of haloperidol can be diluted in 30 to 50 mL of compatible intravenous fluid and administered over 30 minutes {30}. Usual adult prescribing limits Intramuscular: 100 mg daily {18}. Usual pediatric dose Safety and efficacy have not been established {18}. Strength(s) usually available U.S.— 5 mg per mL (Rx) [Haldol (methylparaben 1.8 mg) (propylparaben 0.2 mg) (lactic acid)][Generic] Canada— 5 mg per mL (Rx) [Haldol (methylparaben 1.8 mg) (propylparaben 0.2 mg) (lactic acid)][Generic] Packaging and storage: Store below 40 °C (104 °F), preferably between 15 and 30 °C (59 and 86 °F), unless otherwise specified by manufacturer. Protect from light. Protect from freezing. Incompatibilities: Haloperidol injection may be precipitated by phenytoin or heparin {31}. HALOPERIDOL DECANOATE INJECTION Note: The dosing of haloperidol decanoate injection is expressed in terms of haloperidol base (not the decanoate). Usual adult and adolescent dose Chronic psychosis Intramuscular, initially 10 to 15 times the previous daily oral dose of haloperidol, up to a maximum initial dose of 100 mg (base), at monthly intervals, the dosing interval and dose being adjusted as needed and tolerated {19}. Note: Administration is by deep intramuscular injection {19} into gluteal region using Z-track technique {45}. A 2-inch long, 21-gauge {19} needle is recommended. The maximum volume per injection site should not exceed 3 mL {19}. Usual adult prescribing limits 300 mg (base) per month {19}. Note: Monthly doses as high as 900 mg (base) have been reported {45} {52} {54}. Usual pediatric dose Safety and efficacy have not been established {19}. Strength(s) usually available U.S.— 50 mg (base) (70.52 mg of haloperidol decanoate) per mL (Rx) [Haldol Decanoate (benzyl alcohol 1.2%) (sesame oil)][Generic]{66} 100 mg (base) (141.04 mg of haloperidol decanoate) per mL (Rx) [Haldol Decanoate (benzyl alcohol 1.2%) (sesame oil)][Generic]{66} Canada— 50 mg (base) (70.52 mg of haloperidol decanoate) per mL (Rx) [Haldol LA (benzyl alcohol 15 mg/mL)] 100 mg (base) (141.04 mg of haloperidol decanoate) per mL (Rx) [Haldol LA (benzyl alcohol 15 mg/mL)] Packaging and storage: Store below 40 °C (104 °F), preferably between 15 and 30 °C (59 and 86 °F), unless otherwise specified by manufacturer. Protect from light. Protect from freezing. Do not refrigerate. Note: Not to be administered intravenously {19}. Revised: 08/24/1998 References Note: All references used in the development and earlier revisions of this monograph have not yet been incorporated into the computer database and, therefore, are not listed below. Citations for information not yet referenced in the monograph will be provided upon request. - Haldol Decanoate package insert (McNeil) 1986. - Panelist comment. - Anderson LT, Campbell M, Grega DM, et al. Haloperidol in the treatment of infantile autism: effects on learning and behavioral symptoms. Am J Psychiatry 1984 Oct; 141 (10): 1195-202. - Jann MW, Ereshefsky L, Saklad SR. Clinical pharmacokinetics of the depot antipsychotics. Clin Pharmacokinetics 1985; 10: 315-53. - Textbook of Medicine—Wyngaarden and Smith, 1985. - USP DI, 1987, Molindone (Systemic) monograph. - Reynolds JEF, editor. Martindale, the extra pharmacopeia. 28th ed. London: The Pharmaceutical Press, 1982. - Panelist comment—8/87. - From Phenothiazines (Systemic), USP DI 1989. Reference is: Drug Therapy for the Elderly 2(5): 25-30, 1987. Neuroleptics in the treatment of the confused elderly patient. From N Eng J Med 1983; 308: 134-8, 194-9. Thompson TL, et al. Psychotropic drug use in the elderly (2 parts). - From Phenothiazines (Systemic), USP DI 1989. Reference is: Lamy P, Zuckerman IH. Pharmacologic considerations in the treatment of Alzheimer's disease. The Maryland Pharmacist 1987 Mar; 63(3): 10-2. - Panelist comment on Phenothiazines monograph, USP DI, 1988. - Rewording, etc., from Phenothiazines (Systemic), USP DI 89. Reference is: Birkhimer LJ, deVane CL. The neuroleptic malignant syndrome: Presentation and treatment. Drug Intell Clin Pharm 1984; 18: 462-5. - Panelist comment on Phenothiazines monograph, USP DI—6/88. - Panelist comment on Phenothiazines monograph, USP DI—6/88. - Phenothiazines monograph, USP DI—5/89. - Comment from Review—1988. - Bronchodilators, Adrenergic monograph, USP DI—5/89. - Haldol (McNeil—US) package insert, Rev 6/3/87, Rec 11/29/88. - Haldol Decanoate Injection (McNeil—US) package insert, Rev 2/15/89, Rec 10/30/89. - Haloperidol (Kenral—Canada) product monograph, Rev 2/20/89, Rec 3/22/90. - Hansten PD, Horn JR. Drug interactions. 6th ed. Philadelphia: Lea & Febiger, 1989. - Shinn AF, Shrewsbury RP. EDI, Evaluation of drug interactions. 3rd ed. St Louis: Mosby, l985. - Tatro DS, editor. Drug interaction facts. St Louis: Facts and Comparisons, 1990. - Goodman and Gilman's the pharmacologic basis of therapeutics. 8th ed., 1990. - Forsman A, Öhman R. Pharmacokinetics of haloperidol in man. Curr Ther Res (Sep) 1976; 20(3): 319-36. - Holley FO, Magliozzi JR, Stanski DR, et al. Haloperidol kinetics after oral and intravenous doses. Clin Pharmacol Ther (Apr) 1983; 33(4): 477-84. - Cressman WA, Bianchine JR, Slotnick VB, et al. Plasma level profile of haloperidol in man following intramuscular administration. Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1974; 7: 99-103. - Moore DP. Rapid treatment of psychosis with haloperidol. South Med J 1979 Mar; 72(3): 337-8. - Moore DP. Rapid treatment of delirium in critically ill patients. Am J Psychiatry 1977 Dec; 132(12): 1431-2. - Adams S, Fernandez F. Intravenous use of haloperidol. Hospital Pharmacy 1987 Mar; 22: 306-7. - Anon. Intravenous use of haloperidol (Haldol). Hospital Pharmacy 1990 Apr; 25: 394. - Reviewer comment, 10/89. - Bryant SG, Brown CS. Current concepts in clinical therapeutics: Major affective disorders, Part 1. Therapy review. Clin Pharm 1986; 5: 304-18. - Panel consensus (Maprotiline monograph), 5/91. - Parlodel (Bromocriptine) product monograph, PDR 1991: 1958-60. - Wellbutrin (Bupropion) product monograph, PDR 1991: 807-10. - Wellbutrin package insert, Rev 10/89, Rec 2/91. - Panel comment (on Bupropion monograph), 10/30/90. - Proglycem (Diazoxide) product monograph (Schering) CPS 1988: 749. - Prozac (Fluoxetine-Lilly) product monograph, December 30, 1987. - Panel comment (on Fluoxetine monograph), 7/89. - Permax (Pergolide) product monograph, PDR 1991: 1259-61. - Reviewer comment, 11/89. - Froemming JS, Lam YW, Jann MW, Davis CM. Pharmacokinetics of haloperidol. Clin Pharmacokinet 1989 Dec; 17(6): 396-423. - Hemstrom CA, Evans RL, Lobeck FG. Haloperidol decanoate: a depot antipsychotic. Drug Intell Clin Pharm 1988 Apr; 22: 290-5. - Beresford R, Ward A. Haloperidol decanoate. A preliminary review of its pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic properties and therapeutic use in psychosis. Drugs 1987; 33: 31-49. - Stewart RB, Karas B, Springer PK. Haloperidol excretion in human milk. Am J Psychiatry 1980 Jul; 137(7): 849-50. - Whalley LJ, Blain PG, Prime JK. Haloperidol secreted in breast milk. Br Med J 1981 May 30; 282: 1746-7. - Panel comment, 10/91. - Adler LA, Angrist B, Reiter S, Rotrosen J. Neuroleptic-induced akathisia: a review. Psychopharmacology 1989; 97: 1-11. - Panel comment, 10/91. - Panel comment, 10/91. - Reviewers responses to monograph revision, 10/3/91. - Panel comment, 10/91. - Reviewers responses to Psychiatric Disease Advisory Panel Memo #6 of 9/16/91. - Wojcik JD, Falk WE, Fink JS, et al. A review of 32 cases of tardive dystonia. Am J Psychiatry 1991 Aug; 148(8): 1055-9. - Burke RE, Kang UJ. Tardive dystonia: clinical aspects and treatment. In: Jankovic J Tolosae, editor. Facial Dyskinesias, Advances in Neurology. New York: Raven Press, 1988; 49: 199-210. - Kang UJ, Burke RE, Fahn S. Natural history and treatment of tardive dystonia. Movement Disorders. 1986; 1: 193-208. - Watsky EJ, Salzman C. Psychotropic Drug Interactions. Hosp Community Psychiatry 1991 Mar; 42(3): 247-56. - Tate JL. Extrapyramidal symptoms in a patient taking haloperidol and fluoxetine. [Letter]. Am J Psychiatry 1989 Mar; 146(3): 399-400. - Brod TM. Fluoxetine and extrapyramidal symptoms. [Letter]. Am J Psychiatry 1989 Oct; 146(10): 1353. - Haldol decanoate package insert (McNeil—US), Rev 12/30/91, Rec 9/11/92. - Haldol package insert (McNeil—US), Rev 12/29/91, Rec 9/11/92. - Personal communication, Medical Information, Ortho-McNeil, 5/22/95. - Panelist comment, 5/88 and 7/88. - Haloperidol decanoate injection package insert (Fujisawa—US), Rev 12/96, Rec 2/98.

Patent application title: SHEET FOR CORNEAL TRANSPLANTS Inventors: Kohji Nishida (Miyagi, JP) Ryuhei Hayashi (Miyagi, JP) Ryo Watanabe (Miyagi, JP) Yasuhiko Tabata (Kyoto, JP) Yasuhiko Tabata (Kyoto, JP) Assignees: KOYOTO UNIVERSITY TOHOKU UNIVERSITY IPC8 Class: AA61K3536FI USPC Class: 424443 Class name: Drug, bio-affecting and body treating compositions preparations characterized by special physical form web, sheet or filament bases; compositions of bandages; or dressings with incorporated medicaments Publication date: 2012-11-08 Patent application number: 20120282318 Abstract: The present invention relates to a sheet for corneal transplants comprising corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel, which is obtainable by seeding and culturing corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel coated with collagen. The sheet of the present invention is extremely useful as a sheet for corneal transplants not only for its biocompatibility and biodegradability, but also for its high transparency. Claims: 1. A sheet for corneal transplants comprising corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel. 2. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the thickness of the gelatin hydrogel is 10 to 200 μm. 3. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1 wherein the thickness of the gelatin hydrogel is 30 to 100 μm. 4. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the gelatin hydrogel has a percentage water content of 92 to 99%. 5. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the density of cells on the gelatin hydrogel is 2000 cells/mm2 or more. 6. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the sheet for corneal transplants comprises ZO-1-positive corneal endothelial cells. 7. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the gelatin hydrogel is prepared by subjecting gelatin to thermal cross-linking treatment. 8. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the gelatin hydrogel is degraded in vivo after transplantation. 9. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the gelatin hydrogel is degraded in vivo and disappears within one to six months after transplantation. 10. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the gelatin hydrogel is engrafted into a stromal tissue without being biodegraded. 11. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the corneal endothelial cells are patient-derived cells. 12. The sheet for corneal transplants according to claim 1, wherein the sheet for corneal transplants is obtainable by seeding and culturing corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel sheet coated with collagen. 13. A method for producing a sheet for corneal transplants, comprising seeding and culturing corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel sheet coated with collagen. 14. The method according to claim 13, wherein the method comprises the step of applying collagen over a surface of the gelatin hydrogel sheet. 15. The method according to claim 13, wherein the method comprises detaching the gelatin hydrogel sheet with the corneal endothelial cells from a culture container on or after the seventh day after the corneal endothelial cells become confluent. 16. The method according to claim 13, wherein the density of cells on the gelatin hydrogel in the obtained sheet for corneal transplants is 2000 cells/mm2 or more. Description: TECHNICAL FIELD [0001] The present invention relates to a sheet for corneal transplants having a gelatin hydrogel as a carrier. In more detail, the present invention relates to a highly transparent sheet for corneal transplants prepared by culturing corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel. BACKGROUND ART [0002] The cornea is composed of five layers, which are, from the outside, corneal epithelial layer, Bowman's layer, corneal stromal layer, Descemet's membrane, and corneal endothelial layer. Among them, the innermost corneal endothelial layer is a single layer of cells, and this layer of cells is responsible for taking up necessary materials for the cornea from hydatoid, while discharging water in the cornea into hydatoid to maintain constant corneal thickness and to keep the cornea transparent. Reduction in the number of corneal endothelial cells leads to insufficient water discharge, causing corneal endothelial disease such as corneal opacity and bullous keratopathy. Human corneal endothelial cells do not proliferate in vivo; therefore, once damaged, transplantation is the only option for radical treatment. [0003] Conventionally, penetrating keratoplasty has been performed for corneal endothelial disease; however, there are problems of absolute shortage of donors and post-transplant rejection reaction. In response to these problems, Descemet Stripping Endothelial Keratoplasty (DSEK), which is a method involving acquiring the corneal endothelium (partially containing the corneal stroma) from the imported research human cornea from U.S. eye bank and transplanting it into an affected eye, is known. Because DSEK transplants corneal endothelial cells, it will reduce the rejection reaction compared to penetrating keratoplasty. However, this method cannot be a radical solution to the problems of rejection reaction and donor shortage. [0004] Meanwhile, although still in the research phase, a therapeutic method using the patient's own corneal endothelial cells is also being developed. Since this method enables acquisition of a large amount of corneal endothelial cells by propagating the corneal limbal cells of the healthy eye, it could solve the aforementioned problem of donor shortage. However, normally, cultured corneal endothelial cells form a monolayer and the intercellular connection is not very strong; therefore, direct use of the cultured corneal endothelial cells for transplantation is difficult in terms of operability and strength. Also, although cultured cells are normally detached and collected from culture containers by treatment with an enzyme such as trypsin or with chemicals, there are problems that such treatment would disrupt the desmosome structure, causing drastic reduction in the engraftment, strength, and function of the transplanted cell sheet. [0005] In response to the aforementioned problems, the present inventors have developed a method of transplanting a sheet of cultured corneal endothelial cells obtained by using a culture dish having bound thereto a temperature responsive polymer, the hydration force of which varies within a temperature range of 0 to 80° C. This method enables acquisition of a cell sheet only by lowering temperature without involving enzymes, and experimental transplantation into the rabbit cornea was successful (Patent Literature 1 and Non Patent Literature 1). However, because no carrier is used in this method, handling of the harvested cultured corneal endothelial cells is difficult, posing a problem for practical clinical application. [0006] Also, although still in the animal experiment phase, a method using atelocollagen as a carrier for transplantation of cultured corneal endothelial cells is also known (Non Patent Literature 2). However, atelocollagen has poor bioadhesive and biodegradable properties, and there is a report that it exfoliates from the endothelial surface after transplantation and remains in the anterior chamber. Thus, there is a concern that this might stimulate endothelial cells, consequently causing a reduction in the cell density. Further, a method including mounting cultured corneal endothelial cells on a cylindrically-formed gelatin disk and transplanting the whole disk is also reported (Non Patent Literature 3). However, the gelatin disk is as thick as about 800 μm and requires a long time for biodegradation, and also, there is a concern that degradation might induce inflammation. [0007] In the tissue engineering in regenerative medicine, a method including culturing cells and tissues on a biodegradable culture carrier and transplanting them with the carrier into the affected part is known. The use of a water soluble polymer such as polyvinyl alcohol and a hydrogel such as collagen as a constituent material of the carrier is also known (Patent Literature 2). A gelatin hydrogel is a hydrogel obtained by cross-linking the gelatin molecules by thermal reaction and the like, and it has not only high bioabsorbability and biocompatibility but also an excellent sustained-release effect. For this, the use of a gelatin hydrogel as a sustained-release substrate for cytokines such as bFGF and BMP and for poorly water-soluble drugs is reported (Patent Literatures 3 to 5, and the like). However, the use of a gelatin hydrogel in corneal cell culture as a carrier for corneal endothelial transplantation has been unknown to date. CITATION LIST Patent Literature [0008] Patent Literature 1: WO2004/073761 [0009] Patent Literature 2: Japanese Patent Laid-Open No. 2002-186847 [0010] Patent Literature 3: Japanese Patent Laid-Open No. 2004-203829 [0011] Patent Literature 4: Japanese Patent Laid-Open No. 2007-332106 [0012] Patent Literature 5: Japanese Patent Laid-Open No. 2008-137975 Non Patent Literature [0012] [0013] Non Patent Literature 1: Ide T, et al., Biomaterials, 2006 Feb., 27 (4): 607 to 614 [0014] Non Patent Literature 2: Koizumi N., et. al., Invest. Ophthalmol. Vis. Sci., 2007 Oct., 48 (10): 4519 to 4526 [0015] Non Patent Literature 3: Hsiue G H et al., Transplantation. 2006 Feb., 15; 81 (3): 473 to 476 SUMMARY OF INVENTION Technical Problem [0016] A substrate for transplantation used for corneal transplants is required to be not only biocompatible and biodegradable but also transparent. An object of the present invention is to determine the best substrate for corneal endothelial transplantation satisfying the above conditions and provide, using this substrate, a sheet for corneal transplants that can be directly applied to the affected part. Solution to Problem [0017] The present inventors searched for a material satisfying the following conditions as a substrate for transplantation used for corneal transplants, and selected a gelatin hydrogel. 1) Capable of transplanting cultured corneal endothelial cells without impairing the function and form of the endothelial cells in the process of transplantation. 2) Having favorable engraftment into the stroma so as not to cause exfoliation of the sheet, or being rapidly biodegradable so as not to cause exfoliation of the sheet into the anterior chamber, thereby not damaging the transplanted corneal endothelium. 3) Having favorable transparency and biocompatibility after transplantation, causing no inflammation reaction and the like, and keeping the cornea transparent. [0018] The present inventors then processed gelatin into a sheet and subjected it to cross-linking treatment to produce a gelatin hydrogel sheet, and subsequently, using this sheet as a carrier, cultured corneal endothelial cells. Then, they transplanted the resulting sheet into the anterior segment of a mouse model of bullous keratopathy and evaluated the degradability and therapeutic effect of the sheet. As a result, it was confirmed that the sheet for corneal transplants having a gelatin hydrogel as a carrier showed high engraftment and transparency of cells and exhibited an excellent post-transplantation course. [0019] That is, the present invention relates to a sheet for corneal transplants comprising corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel. [0020] The thickness of the gelatin hydrogel in the sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention is preferably 10 to 200 μm, more preferably 30 to 100 μm. [0021] Also, the percentage water content of the gelatin hydrogel is preferably 92 to 99%, more preferably 95 to 98%. Further, the corneal endothelial cells used are ZO-1 or Na.sup.+/K.sup.+-ATPase positive cells. [0022] The gelatin hydrogel used in the present invention is produced by subjecting gelatin to thermal cross-linking treatment. Although the gelatin hydrogel is degraded in vivo after transplantation, the rate of degradation can be adjusted by the degree of cross-linking and the like. That is, it may be possible to adjust the rate of degradation to such a rate that the gelatin hydrogel disappears by degradation in vivo within one to six months after transplantation, or to such a rate that the gelatin hydrogel is engrafted into the stromal tissue without being biodegraded for more than one year. [0023] The corneal endothelial cells used in the present invention are preferably prepared from cells derived from the patient. [0024] The sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention is obtained by seeding and culturing corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel sheet coated with collagen. [0025] Here, the collagen coating is performed not by a conventional method involving immersing a sheet into a collagen solution but by a method involving applying a collagen solution over the sheet surface. The cell adherence property and barrier function of the sheet are remarkably improved by coating collagen by this method. No particular limitation is imposed on the temperature, humidity, and time of the coating treatment. Also, similarly, no limitation is imposed on the concentration and kind of the collagen solution. [0026] Specifically, the sheet for corneal transplants is obtained by seeding and culturing corneal endothelial cells on a gelatin hydrogel sheet coated with collagen and detaching the gelatin hydrogel sheet with the corneal endothelial cells from a culture container on or after the seventh day after the corneal endothelial cells become confluent. As described above, the density of cells on the gelatin hydrogel in the obtained sheet for corneal transplants is 2000 cells/mm2 or more, preferably 2500 cells/mm2 or more, and more preferably 3000 cells/mm2 or more. Advantageous Effects of Invention [0027] Because the cultured corneal endothelial cells form a monolayer, handling of the cells during transplantation is difficult. Thus, a strong, transparent carrier is needed to achieve stable transplantation results. The gelatin hydrogel used in the present invention has appropriate strength and excellent transparency, and when used as a carrier for transplantation, it will remarkably improve the strength and operability of the sheet for corneal transplants. Also, because the gelatin hydrogel is degraded in vivo and then disappears, there is no concern that this gelatin hydrogel may cause damage to the corneal endothelium, and further, the corneal transparency is recovered in the early post-transplantation period. Further, because gelatin hydrogels have been already used as a clinical material, the sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention using a gelatin hydrogel can be safely used for clinical application. BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF DRAWINGS [0028] FIG. 1 shows a photographic image comparing the transparency between the gelatin hydrogel sheet and the atelocollagen sheet. [0029] FIG. 2 shows the evaluation results of the mechanical characteristics of the gelatin hydrogel sheet and the atelocollagen sheet (A: strength of each sheet in a tensile test (48 hr, 24 hr, 12 hr, atelocollagen, and 6 hr, from the left in the graph), B: strength of each sheet in a tensile test, C: A break point of each sheet in a tensile test, and D: An elastic modulus of each sheet)). [0030] FIG. 3 shows the results of a permeability test of atelocollagen and the gelatin hydrogel sheet (A: albumin, B: glucose). [0031] FIG. 4 shows the evaluation results of cell adherence property (phase-contrast microscopic image) and improvement in barrier function (expression of ZO-1) by different coating methods applied to the gelatin hydrogel sheet on which corneal endothelial cells are cultured ((a) a phase-contrast microscopic image (Day 1), (b) ZO-1 immunofluorescent staining (Day 10); A: sheets immersed in a 0.15 mg/ml collagen solution (conventional method), B: sheets onto which a 3.0 mg/ml collagen solution was applied, and C: atelocollagen (comparative control), from the left). [0032] FIG. 5 shows the evaluation results of the transparency of the gelatin hydrogel sheet on which corneal endothelial cells are cultured (left: atelocollagen, right: gelatin hydrogel sheet). [0033] FIG. 6 shows the evaluation of the corneal endothelial cells cultured on the gelatin hydrogel sheet (A: analysis of Na.sup.+/K.sup.+-ATPase and ZO-1 expression (immunostaining images), B: an HE staining image, and C: a scanning microscopic image, each scale indicates 200 μm). [0034] FIG. 7 shows HE staining images of the gelatin hydrogel sheet (a) before transplantation and (b) after transplantation into the rabbit anterior chamber (each scale indicates 200 μm). [0035] FIG. 8 shows the results of comparison of the thickness of the cultured corneal endothelial cell sheets prepared with the gelatin hydrogel sheet in the transplanted, non-transplanted, and normal eyes in rabbit models of bullous keratopathy as of (a) Day 7 after transplantation and (b) Day 21 after transplantation. [0036] FIG. 9 shows (A) HE staining images and (B) DiI staining images of the cultured corneal endothelial cell sheets prepared with the gelatin hydrogel sheet in rabbit model of bullous keratopathy as of 21 day after transplantation. The images on the right are the magnified images of the boxed area in the images on the left. [0037] The present specification encompasses the contents described in the specification of Japanese Patent Application No. 2009-190415, based on which the present application claims priority. DESCRIPTION OF EMBODIMENTS 1. Gelatin Hydrogel 1.1 About the Gelatin Hydrogel [0038] The "gelatin hydrogel" of the present invention is a hydrogel obtained by cross-linking the gelatin molecules by subjecting gelatin to chemical reactions or thermal dehydration treatment, or by irradiating gelatin with radiation, ultraviolet ray, electron beam, or the like. [0039] At this point, the term "gelatin" refers to a modified collagen that is irreversibly converted into a water-soluble protein as a result of cleavage of the salt and hydrogen bonds between the peptide chains in the collagen by acid treatment, alkali treatment, enzyme treatment, and the like. [0040] The gelatin used in the present invention may be either acidic gelatin or basic gelatin. In the present specification, the term "acidic gelatin" means a gelatin having an isoelectric point of less than 7.0 and 2.0 or more, preferably 6.5 or less and 4.0 or more, and more preferably 5.5 or less and 4.5 or more, after preparing collagen with alkali treatment. Also, the term "basic gelatin" means a gelatin having an isoelectric point of 7.0 or more and 13.0 or less, preferably 7.5 or more and 10.0 or less, and more preferably 8.5 or more and 9.5 or less, after preparing collagen with acid treatment. For example, as the "acidic gelatin", a reagent with an isoelectric point (IEP) of 5.0 supplied by Nitta Gelatin, Inc. and the like, and as the basic gelatin, similarly, a reagent with IEP of 9.0 supplied by Nitta Gelatin, Inc. and the like can be used. [0041] Either one of these gelatins is appropriately selected for use according to the medicinal components to be incorporated and the purpose of use. For example, because bFGF has an IEP of 4.6, an acidic gelatin is used when such a medicinal agent is incorporated, whereas when a protein medicinal agent having an IEP of 7 or less is incorporated, a basic gelatin is used. 1.2 Cross-Linking of Gelatin [0042] The degree of cross-linking of gelatin can be appropriately selected according to desired levels of biodegradability, percentage water content, and bioabsorbability. The cross-linking may cross-link any part of collagen constituting gelatin; however, it is particularly preferable to cross-link a carboxyl group and a hydroxyl group, a carboxyl group and a ε-amino group, and ε-amino groups to each other. By introducing cross-linking as shown above, the resulting complex will attain desired mechanical strength characteristics. Also, depending on the rate of introduction of cross-linking, the rate of degradation in vivo (duration in the body) can also be controlled. Generally in the hydrogel, as the concentrations of gelatin and cross-linking agents as well as the time of cross-linking are increased, the degree of cross-linking is increased, while bioabsorbability is lowered. [0043] The cross-linking of gelatin can be performed by a method such as thermal reaction (such as thermal dehydration treatment), cross-linking by chemical technique using cross-linking agents and condensing agents, and cross-linking by physical technique using γ-ray, ultraviolet ray, electron beam, and the like. When performing chemical cross-linking, examples of the cross-linking agent used include aldehyde cross-linking agents such as glutaraldehyde and formaldehyde; isocyanate cross-linking agents such as hexamethylene diisocyanate; carbodiimide cross-linking agents such as 1-ethyl-3-(3-dimethylaminopropyl) carbodiimide hydrochloride; polyepoxy cross-linking agents such as ethylene glycol diethyl ether; and transglutaminase. The amount of the cross-linking agent added is appropriately determined depending on the cross-linking agent used. The degree of cross-linking can be appropriately selected according to the desired percentage water content, namely the level of bioabsorbability of the hydrogel. When gelatin is used as a bioabsorbable polymer, the concentrations of gelatin and cross-linking agents for preparation of a hydrogel preferably range from 1 to 20 w/w % for gelatin and from 0.01 to 1 w/w % for cross-linking agents. Although no particular limitation is imposed on the conditions of cross-linking reaction, for example, the cross-linking reaction can be performed at 0 to 40° C., preferably at 25 to 30° C. for 1 to 48 hours, preferably for 12 to 24 hours. Generally in the hydrogel, as the concentrations of gelatin and cross-linking agents as well as the time of cross-linking are increased, the degree of cross-linking is increased, while bioabsorbability is lowered. The percentage water content and the amount of cross-linking agents are described in Japanese Patent Laid-Open No. 2004-203829. [0044] Although cross-linking may be performed by any method, thermal cross-linking (such as thermal dehydration treatment) is preferably performed in the present invention. This is because when chemical cross-linking is performed, cross-linking agents may remain in the hydrogel, and also, under certain conditions, cross-link may be formed only on the hydrogel surface, failing to achieve uniform cross-linking. In contrast, when thermal cross-linking is performed, cross-link is uniformly formed over the entire gelatin hydrogel and the desired biodegradability is achieved. [0045] When cross-link is formed by thermal reaction, specifically, the reaction is carried out under the conditions of 140° C. to 160° C. for six to 72 hours in the vacuum state. Under such condition settings, the rate of degradation of a gelatin hydrogel in vivo (duration in the body) can be controlled. In Examples of the present invention, a gelatin hydrogel prepared by heating at 160° C. at 0.01 Torr for 72 hours in vacuum was used. 1.3 Biodegradability [0046] Degradability of the gelatin hydrogel can be adjusted by the aforementioned degree of cross-linking and thickness of the sheet. Degradability can be controlled in a range of 14 days to one year or more within the animal's body, for example, in the anterior segment. In the present invention, if the gelatin hydrogel is degraded too fast, it cannot fulfill its role as a scaffold for corneal endothelial cells, resulting in poor engraftment of corneal endothelial cells. In view of the above, degradability is set preferably at 14 days to six months, particularly preferably at about one to three months. Alternatively, if the gelatin hydrogel is well engrafted into the stroma without exfoliation, it is also possible to set the time to degradation at one year or more, i.e., such a period of time that biodegradation of the hydrogel virtually does not occur. [0047] The degree of cross-linking of gelatin can be evaluated by using the percentage water content as an index. The percentage water content is the weight percent of water in a hydrogel relative to the weight of a swollen hydrogel. When the percentage water content is large, the degree of cross-linking of the hydrogel becomes low, making the hydrogel susceptible to degradation. The percentage water content for exhibiting preferable degradability is about 92 to 99 w/w %, more preferably about 95 to 98 w/w %. 1.4 Form of the Gelatin Hydrogel [0048] The gelatin hydrogel sheet of the present invention can be shaped in any form; however, it is shaped into a sheet for application to a carrier for transplantation of cultured corneal endothelial cells in the present invention. In consideration of application to corneal endothelial transplantation, the thickness of the sheet is preferably about 10 to 200 μm, more preferably about 30 to 100 μm. 1.5 Transparency of the Gelatin Hydrogel [0049] The gelatin hydrogel of the present invention has excellent transparency. Compared to a conventional carrier such as atelocollagen, the transparency of the gelatin hydrogel of the present invention is remarkably higher. Also, the gelatin hydrogel can maintain its transparency after being applied to the affected part. 2. Corneal Endothelial Cell 2.1 Donor- or Patient-Derived Corneal Endothelial Cell [0050] The corneal endothelial cells used in the present invention collectively refer to the cells contained in the corneal endothelial cell layer, including corneal endothelial stem cells and corneal endothelial progenitor cells. Also, as the corneal endothelial cells, the corneal endothelium obtained from a donor other than the patient, for example from the imported research human cornea from U.S. eye bank, as well as the corneal endothelial cells derived from a patient undergoing transplantation may be used. From the viewpoint of prevention of rejection reaction, the use of the patient-derived cells is desirable. However, given that corneal endothelial cells do not proliferate in vivo as described above, acquisition of corneal endothelial cells from the healthy eye of the patient is technically possible but realistically difficult. 2.2 Corneal Endothelial Cell Differentiated from Stem Cell [0051] As the corneal endothelial cells, corneal endothelial stem cells, tissue stem cells other than corneal endothelial stem cells, and embryonic stem cells (ES cells) may be used, or corneal endothelial cells induced from induced pluripotent stem cells may also be used. Although no particular limitation is imposed on the preparation method of corneal endothelial stem cells and induced pluripotent stem cells used, the cells are preferably derived from the patient in need of treatment. [0052] The induced pluripotent stem cell refers to a mammalian somatic cell or an undifferentiated stem cell that is reprogrammed (initialized) so as to attain similar pluripotency to ES cells by introduction of specific factors. The "induced pluripotent stem cell (iPS cell)" was so-named and first established by Yamanaka et al. by transfecting mouse fibroblasts with four factors, namely Oct3/4, Sox2, Klf4, and c-Myc (Takahashi K, Yamanaka S., Cell, (2006) 126: 663 to 676). In addition to this iPS cell, a human iPS cell established by transfecting human fibroblasts with the same four factors (Takahashi K, Yamanaka S., et al. Cell, (2007) 131: 861 to 872), and further, an iPS cell produced by a method not involving c-Myc (Nakagawa M, Yamanaka S., et al. Nature Biotechnology, (2008) 26, 101 to 106) may also be used. [0053] Also, induced pluripotent stem cells produced by Thomson et al. in University of Wisconsin by transfecting human fibroblasts with four genes, namely OCT3/4, SOX2, NANOG, and LIN28 (Yu J., Thomson J A. et al., Science (2007) 318: 1917 to 1920), induced pluripotent stem cells produced by Daley et al. in Harvard University by transfecting skin cells with six genes, namely OCT3/4, SOX2, KLF4, C-MYC, hTERT, and SV40 large T (Park I H, Daley G Q. et al., Nature (2007) 451: 141 to 146), and induced pluripotent stem cells produced by Sakurada et al. by using undifferentiated stem cells present in tissues after birth as a cell source and transfecting these cells with Oct3/4, Sox2, Klf4, c-Myc, and the like (Japanese Patent Laid-Open No. 2008-307007) may also be used. [0054] In addition, induced pluripotent stem cells produced by transfecting mouse neural progenitor cells and the like with OCT3/4, KLF4, and low molecular weight compounds (Shi Y., Ding S., et al., Cell Stem Cell, (2008) Vol 3, Issue 5, 568 to 574), induced pluripotent stem cells produced by transfecting mouse neural stem cells endogenously expressing SOX2 and C-MYC with OCT3/4 and KLF4 (Kim J B., Scholer H R., et al., Nature, (2008) 454, 646 to 650), induced pluripotent stem cells produced by using the Dnmt and HDAC inhibitors without using C-MYC (Huangfu D., Melton, D A., et al., Nature Biotechnology, (2008) 26, No 7, 795 to 797), or any of the induced pluripotent stem cells described in all of the published patents: Japanese Patent Laid-Open No. 2008-307007, Japanese Patent Laid-Open No. 2008-283972, US2008-2336610, US2009-047263, WO2007-069666, WO2008-118220, WO2008-124133, WO2008-151058, WO2009-006930, WO2009-006997, and WO2009-007852 may also be used. [0055] Induction of differentiation of tissue stem cells, ES cells, and induced pluripotent stem cells into corneal endothelial cells may be direct or indirect via neural crest cells and corneal stromal stem cells. That is, tissue stem cells, ES cells, and induced pluripotent stem cells are once differentiated into neural crest cells or corneal stromal stem cells, and then the resulting neural crest cells and corneal stromal stem cells are further differentiated into corneal endothelial cells by TGFb2 and the like in accordance with a publicly known technique (Japanese Patent Application No. 2008-123562). [0056] As a method for inducing neural crest cells from ES cells, the Stromal Cell-derived Inducing Activity (SDIA) method reported by Sasai and Mizuseki et al. is known. The SDIA method is a method for inducing differentiation of ES cells into neural crest cells by using mouse-derived stromal cells (PA6 cells) as feeder cells (Kawasaki, H., Sasai, Y. et al. (2000) Neuron 28, 31 to 40., Kawasaki, H., Sasai, Y. et al. (2002) Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 99, 1580 to 1585, and Mizuseki, K., Sasai, Y. et al. (2003) Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 100, 5828 to 5833). In addition, as a method for inducing neural crest cells from ES cells, a method using ST2 cells (Motohashi T et al. Stem Cells, 2007; 25: 402 to 410) and a method using MS-5 cells (Lee G et al. Nat. Biotechnol. 2007; 25: 1468 to 1475) are also known. [0057] Also, as a method for inducing neural crest cells from ES cells and induced pluripotent stem cells, a method of differentiation induction utilizing modified SFEB method proposed by the present inventors (submitted) is also possible. The Serum-Free Floating Culture of Embryoid Body-like Aggregates (SFEB) method is a method for inducing nerve cells from mouse ES cells by combining a specific serum free culture liquid and floating aggregate culture in the absence of feeder cells (Watanabe K et al., Nature Neuroscience 2005; 8: 288 to 296). 3. Corneal Endothelial Cell Culture on the Gelatin Hydrogel [0058] The sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention is prepared by coating the aforementioned gelatin hydrogel sheet with collagen (type I or type IV) and seeding and culturing corneal endothelial cells on the collagen-coated sheet. 3.1 Collagen Coating [0059] Collagen coating of the gelatin hydrogel is performed with an aim to improve cell adherence property and corneal endothelial function. Type I or type IV collagen is preferably used, and it is preferably atelocollagen devoid of antigenicity. Collagen coating is performed in accordance with a routine method, namely by diluting collagen with diluted hydrochloric acid (pH 3.0) 10-fold and thinly applying the diluted collagen over a gelatin hydrogel, and then letting it dry. The coated sheet is preferably washed with Phosphate-Buffered Salines (PBS) (Invitrogen) before use. [0060] Cell adhesive proteins, peptides, glycoproteins, and the like such as laminins, serum, and FNC coating Mix (Athena Enzyme Systems) may also be used alone or a mixture of these substances may also be used instead of collagen. The concentration of coating is 10-4 to 100 mg/ml, and an aqueous solution having any kind of composition can be used. [0061] Here, collagen coating is performed not by a conventional method of immersing a sheet into a collagen solution but by a method of applying (smearing) a collagen solution over the sheet surface. The cell adherence property and barrier function of the sheet are remarkably improved by coating by this method. In the coated sheet, coated collagen is immobilized near the surface of the gelatin sheet by drying. This immobilization to the surface is important for the adhesion and manifestation of functions of the cells. Because it is speculated that cell adhesion and endothelial functions would be reduced in the absence of coating, it is desirable to perform coating. 3.2 Medium [0062] Culture on the gelatin hydrogel sheet can be performed using a medium ordinarily employed for adherent cell culture. Any medium that can be used for animal cell culture such as DMEM medium, BME medium, α MEM medium, Dulbecco MEM medium, BGJb medium, CMRL 1066 medium, Glasgow MEM medium, Improved MEM Zinc Option medium, IMDM medium, Medium 199, Eagle MEM medium, Ham's medium, RPMI 1640 medium, Fischer's medium, McCoy's medium, William's medium E, and a mixed medium of these media can be used. [0063] Using these media as basic media, various nutrient sources necessary for maintenance and proliferation of corneal endothelial cells and each component necessary for induction of differentiation of corneal endothelial cells may be appropriately added. [0064] For example, the medium can contain, as the nutrient source, serum, basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF), epithelial growth factor (EGF), carbon sources such as glycerol, glucose, fructose, sucrose, lactose, honey, starch, and dextrin, also, hydrocarbons such as fatty acid, oil and fat, lecithin, and alcohols, nitrogen sources such as ammonium sulfate, ammonium nitrate, ammonium chloride, urea, and sodium nitrate, inorganic salts such as table salt, potassium salt, phosphate, magnesium salt, calcium salt, iron salt, and manganese salt, potassium dihydrogen phosphate, dipotassium hydrogen phosphate, magnesium sulfate, sodium chloride, ferrous sulfate, sodium molybdate, sodium tungstate, and manganese sulfate, various vitamins, amino acids, and the like. [0065] In addition to the above, amino acid reducing agents such as pyruvic acid and β mercaptoethanol, serum alternatives, and the like can be added as needed. It should be noted that examples of the serum alternative include albumin (such as lipid-rich albumin), transferrin, fatty acid, insulin, collagen precursors, trace elements, β mercaptoethanol or 3' thiolglycerol, commercially available Knockout Serum Replacement (KSR), Chemically-defined Lipid concentrated (manufactured by Gibco), and Glutamax (manufactured by Gibco). [0066] The medium obtained by blending the aforementioned components has a pH ranging from 5.5 to 9.0, preferably from 6.0 to 8.0, and more preferably from 6.5 to 7.5. 3.3 Culture Conditions [0067] Corneal endothelial cells are seeded in the gelatin hydrogel containing the aforementioned medium at a seeding density of 500 to 4500 cells/mm2, preferably 1500 to 3500 cells/mm2, and cultured under the conditions of 36° C. to 38° C., preferably 36.5° C. to 37.5° C. and 1% to 25% O2 and 1% to 15% CO2. Culture days are at least three days or more, preferably seven days or more after the cells become confluent. The density of cells on the gelatin hydrogel obtained at last is 2000 cells/mm2 or more, preferably 2500 cells/mm2 or more, and more preferably 3000 cells/mm2 or more. 4. Sheet for Corneal Transplant [0068] As the sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention uses a gelatin hydrogel as a carrier, it is capable of markedly improving the strength and operability of the corneal endothelial cell layer, which is a single layer only about 10 μm thick by itself. The corneal endothelial cells on the sheet express the tight junction protein ZO-1, which exhibits barrier functions, and are adhered well to the sheet. Because the sheet can be detached from the culture container without application of treatment with enzymes such as trypsin and Dispase, the desmosome structure of the cell as well as the inherent structure and strength of the corneal endothelial cell layer are maintained. [0069] Also, because the gelatin hydrogel is highly transparent, the sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention has remarkably higher transparency than does a conventional publicly known sheet for corneal transplants having atelocollagen as a carrier, and the transparency of the sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention is maintained after transplantation as well. [0070] The sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention can contain medicinal components as needed. Examples of such medicinal components include antitumor agents, antimicrobial agent, anti-inflammatory agents, anti-virus agents, anti-AIDS agents, low molecular weight medicines such as hormones, physiologically active peptides including osteogenic factors or bone growth factors, proteins, glycoproteins, polysaccharides, and nucleic acids. These medicinal components may be naturally derived or synthetically produced substances. [0071] Specific examples of the medicinal component include a cell growth factor such as epithelial growth factor (EGF), fibroblast growth factor (FGF), platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF), hepatocyte growth factor (HGF), a transforming growth factor (TGF), and insulin-like growth factor (IGF), and, particularly with regard to osteoanagenesis, bone morphogenetic protein (BMP) such as BMP-2, BMP-4, BMP-5, BMP-6, BMP-7 (OP-1), and BMP-8(OP-2), glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor (GDNF), neurotrophic factor (NF), platelet-rich plasma (PRP) containing numerous cell growth factors widely used in clinical dentistry, an anticancer agent such as interferon, interleukin-2, and ifosfamide, an antibiotic such as streptomycin, gentamicin, and gatifloxacin, a hypocholesterolemic agent such as atorvastatin, pravastatin, and simvastatin, lidocaine, protamine sulfate, sodium iodohippurate, iodinated sulfobromophthalein, heparin sodium, glucose, norepinephrine, dextran, thiopental sodium, sodium chromate injection, xylitol, procaine hydrochloride, tetracaine hydrochloride, tubocurarine chloride, suxamethonium chloride, amorphous insulin zinc, amyl nitrite, and ajmaline. [0072] The gelatin hydrogel may be impregnated with the aforementioned medicinal components before or during culturing corneal endothelial cells thereon, or before or after preparing the sheet for transplants. The blending ratio of the medicinal component relative to the gelatin hydrogel is preferably about 5 times or less, further preferably about 5 to about 1/104 times the mole of the gelatin hydrogel. Normally, the impregnation operation is completed at 4 to 37° C. within 15 minutes to one hour, preferably at 4 to 25° C. within 15 to 30 minutes, during which time the gelatin hydrogel is swollen in a solution containing medicinal components, and the medicinal components are conjugated with the gelatin hydrogel by physicochemical interactions to form a complex and are immobilized in the gelatin hydrogel. It is speculated that not only physical interaction such as Coulomb's force, hydrogen bonding strength, and hydrophobic interaction but also a coordinate bond between the functional group or metal of a medicine and the functional group of the hydrogel, and the like is involved in the binding between the medicinal components and the gelatin hydrogel either alone or in a combined manner. [0073] The medicinal components are gradually released outside the sheet as the gelatin hydrogel is degraded in vivo and the gelatin molecules are solubilized in water. The rate of release is determined by the degree of degradation and absorption of the gelatin hydrogel used in vivo and by the degree of strength and stability of binding between the medicinal components and the gelatin hydrogel in a complex. The degree of degradation and absorption of the gelatin hydrogel in vivo can be adjusted by regulating the degree of cross-linking during preparation of the hydrogel. [0074] In the present invention, for example when a negatively-charged substance such as a nucleic acid is used as the medicinal component, the gelatin hydrogel is preferably positively charged so that the medicinal component and the gelatin hydrogel form a stable complex. A stable gelatin hydrogel complex is formed by a strong bond (ionic bond) between the negative charge of the medicinal component and the positive charge of the gelatin hydrogel. The gelatin hydrogel can be cationized to be positively charged by introducing thereinto an amino group and the like in advance. By doing so, the bonding strength between the gelatin hydrogel and the medicinal component is increased and a more stable gelatin hydrogel complex can be formed. Meanwhile, when the medicinal component is a positively charged substance, the medicinal component and the gelatin hydrogel form a stable complex and the gelatin is anionized by interaction. As a result, the medicinal component interacts with the gelatin and is stably conjugated and immobilized in the hydrogel. As described above, different medicinal components can be slowly released from the gelatin hydrogel by chemically derivatizing or modifying the gelatin in such a way that it can interact with the medicinal component according to the chemical nature and physical properties of the medicinal component. [0075] Although the process of cationization is not particularly limited as long as a method capable of introducing a functional group that is cationized under physiological conditions is used, a method of introducing a primary, secondary, or tertiary amino group or ammonium group into the hydroxyl group or carboxyl group of the gelatin under mild conditions is preferred. For example, a method of reacting alkyldiamine such as ethylenediamine, N,N-dimethyl-1,3-diaminopropane, trimethylammonium acetohydrazide, spermine, spermidine, diethylamide hydrochloride, or the like using various condensing agents such as 1-ethyl-3-(3-dimethylaminopropyl)carbodiimide hydrochloride, cyanuric chloride, N,N'-carbodiimidazole, cyanogen bromide, diepoxy compounds, tosyl chloride, dianhydride compounds such as diethyl triamine-N,N,N'N'',N''-pentanoic dianhydride, trisyl chloride and the like is possible. Among them, a method of reacting ethylenediamine is preferred for its simplicity and versatility. [0076] Because the sheet for corneal transplants containing the medicinal component attains the effect of sustained release of medicinal component and the effect of stabilizing medicinal component, it enables prolonged release of the medicinal component in the desired site in the controlled direction. As a result, the medicinal component effectively exerts its action in the lesion. [0077] It is assumed that one million people worldwide and several tens of thousands people nationwide are eligible for corneal transplants, and among them, patients with bullous keratopathy caused by corneal endothelial damage account for about 80% of all the diseases that can be treated by corneal transplants. Because corneal endothelium does not regenerate once it is damaged, currently there is no effective therapy available except corneal transplants. [0078] As shown above, the sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention can be produced by a simple method and has not only excellent operability, engraftment, and degradability, but also a sustained drug release effect as described above. The use of the patient-derived corneal endothelial cells can avoid the problem of rejection reaction and enables an attempt of rapid regeneration of the corneal endothelium. Further, since the gelatin hydrogel has a function of sustained release of the medicinal component, curing of disease can be further promoted by including physiologically active medicinal components into the gelatin hydrogel and allowing it to release the medicinal components for a necessary period of time. EXAMPLES [0079] Hereinbelow, the present invention will be described in more detail with reference to Examples; however, the present invention is not limited to these Examples. Example 1 Preparation of the Gelatin Hydrogel Sheet [0080] Collagen was extracted from pig skin or cattle bone by alkali treatment (molecular weight: 98,000, isoelectric point: 5.0). Then, a 10 WT % aqueous solution of gelatin was adjusted. This solution was poured into a plastic petri dish and left for several days at room temperature to evaporate water, whereby a gelatin sheet was obtained. The gelatin sheet was then subjected to thermal dehydration treatment at 160° C. and 0.01 Torr for 72 hours to chemically cross-link the gelatin molecules. The gelatin sheet thus obtained had a percentage water content of 97% and a thickness of 100 μm. It should be noted that thickness can be adjusted to 30 μm or more depending on the purpose. (1) Transparency [0081] The gelatin hydrogel sheet prepared as above (48 hours of cross-linking) and an atelocollagen sheet (KOKEN CO., LTD.) were visually compared for transparency (FIG. 1). Further, the light transmittance was compared among the gelatin hydrogel sheets subjected to various cross-linking times (6 to 48 hours). As shown in Table 1, at any cross-linking time, the light transmittance of the gelatin hydrogel was higher than that of atelocollagen. TABLE-US-00001 TABLE 1 Gelatin hydrogel (Dehydrothermal cross-linking time) Atelocollagen (6 hr) (12 hr) (24 hr) (48 hr) Trans- 72.1 ± 2.1 99.1 ± 0.1 99.0 ± 0.2 98.8 ± 0.5 99.0 ± 0.6 mit- tance (%) (2) Mechanical Characteristics [0082] The mechanical characteristics of the gelatin hydrogel sheet and atelocollagen were compared and evaluated. [0083] Strength in a tensile test (FIGS. 2A and B) and break points (FIG. 2C) of the gelatin hydrogel sheets subjected to various cross-linking times (6 to 48 hours) and the atelocollagen sheet were measured and elastic moduli were calculated (FIG. 2D). [0084] The gelatin hydrogel sheet showed a tendency of increasing tensile strength with decreasing elastic modulus in a cross-linking time-dependent manner. Also, it was confirmed that the gelatin hydrogel sheet had equivalent or higher strength and elasticity compared to atelocollagen at any cross-linking time. (3) Substance Permeability [0085] The substance permeability of the gelatin hydrogel sheet (48 hours of cross-linking) and that of the atelocollagen sheet were compared and evaluated. The substance permeability was evaluated by obtaining diffusive coefficients of albumin and glucose by a routine method. [0086] Compared to the atelocollagen sheet, the gelatin hydrogel sheet exhibited significantly higher permeation of albumin. Meanwhile, the gelatin hydrogel sheet and the atelocollagen sheet exhibited equivalent permeation of glucose. From these results, the gelatin hydrogel sheet was considered to be useful as a carrier sheet. Example 2 Cell Culture on the Gelatin Hydrogel Sheet 1. Preparation of Corneal Endothelial Cells [0087] Corneoscleral buttons were prepared from the rabbit eye and the Descemet's membrane was detached. The Descemet's membrane was incubated with 0.25% Trypsin-EDTA at 37° C. for 10 minutes to isolate cells. To the cells, a DMEM medium (low glucose, Nikken Bio Medical Laboratory) containing 2 ng/ml bFGF (R&D systems, Inc.) and 10% serum (Japan bio serum) was added, followed by centrifugation at 300 g for five minutes. The supernatant was aspirated and the remaining cell aggregate was suspended in the same medium. 2. Study on the Corneal Endothelial Cell Culture and the Coating Conditions [0088] The gelatin hydrogel sheet prepared in Example 1 was coated with type I or type IV collagen (Nitta Gelatin, Inc.). As the coating method, a method of directly applying a 3.0 mg/ml collagen stock solution (pH 3.0) on the gelatin hydrogel sheet prepared in Example 1 with a cell scraper and the like and a method of immersing the gelatin hydrogel sheet in a collagen solution diluted 10-fold with diluted hydrochloric acid were performed, and in both method, coating was formed by leaving the hydrogel sheet for 30 minutes or longer in a clean bench. The sheet thus coated was washed three times with Phosphate-Buffered Saline (PBS) (Invitrogen) before use. [0089] Corneal endothelial cells isolated from the Descemet's membrane were seeded on this sheet at a seeding density of 1.5 to 4.5×103 cells/mm2 and cultured in a serum-containing endothelial culture medium used in the previous section at 37° C. and 10% CO2 for 14 days. As a comparison, corneal endothelial cells were seeded and cultured on atelocollagen under similar conditions. [0090] Cell adhesion to the gelatin hydrogel sheet directly coated with the collagen solution and to the gelatin hydrogel sheet immersed in the collagen solution was evaluated. Observation of the form of the endothelial cell under the phase-contrast microscopy on the day after seeding the cell revealed that most of the endothelial cells had adhered to the sheet coated with the stock solution of collagen solution, whereas apparently fewer cells had adhered to the sheet immersed in a 10-fold diluted collagen solution (FIGS. 4A-(a) and B-(a)). Also, cells after 10 days of culturing were observed under a phase-contrast microscope and subjected to immunofluorescent staining using an anti-ZO-1 antibody (Zymed) and an anti-Na.sup.+/K.sup.+-ATPase antibody. As a result, clear expression of the tight junction protein ZO-1 and the endothelial marker Na.sup.+/K.sup.+-ATPase was observed between the cells in the sheet coated with the stock solution of collagen (FIGS. 4B-(b) and (c)). Similarly to the gelatin sheet coated with the stock solution, clear ZO-1 expression was observed in the comparative atelocollagen sheet (FIG. 4C-(b)). From these results, it was assumed that application of the stock solution of collagen to the gelatin hydrogel sheet would achieve similar adherence property and functional expression to those observed with atelocollagen. 3. Evaluation of the Corneal Endothelial Cell Sheet [0091] The corneal endothelial cell sheet obtained by culturing cells on the collagen-applied gelatin hydrogel as a carrier and the corneal endothelial cell sheet obtained by culturing cells on atelocollagen as a carrier were visually compared for transparency. While atelocollagen became cloudy and had reduced transparency after culturing, the transparency of the gelatin hydrogel sheet was not reduced by culturing (FIG. 5). [0092] Corneal endothelial cells cultured on the gelatin hydrogel exhibited the endothelial pump marker Na.sup.+/K.sup.+-ATPase (FIG. 6A) and the tight junction marker ZO-1 (FIG. 6B). Also, scanning microscopic observation revealed microvilli on the cell surface, which are the characteristics of the endothelial cell (FIG. 6C). From the above results, it was shown that the gelatin hydrogel sheet supported the normal growth of corneal endothelial cells by serving as a scaffold. Example 3 Transplantation of the Gelatin Hydrogel Sheet into the Rabbit Anterior Chamber (Study on Biodegradability) [0093] Following cataract extraction from the rabbit eye (phacoemulsification), the Descemet's membrane was detached. Then, a gelatin hydrogel sheet punched out with an 8 mm trepan was transplanted alone into the anterior chamber. (1) Observation Image of the Ocular Surface [0094] As of 28th day after transplantation, transparency of the sheet transplanted into the anterior chamber and transparency of the cornea were both maintained and the iris could be seen through. Also, there was no sign of inflammation, edema, or the like. (2) The Gelatin Hydrogel Sheet after Transplantation The rabbit was euthanized on postoperative day 28, and the eye ball was taken out and chemically fixed with a 10% neutral buffered formalin solution. Subsequently, the corneal tissue was observed with hematoxylin and eosin staining (FIG. 7 (a) before transplantation, (b) after transplantation). The cornea tissue and the gelatin hydrogel sheet were adhered well and neither migration nor infiltration of inflammatory cells caused by the gelatin hydrogel was observed, and the cornea had good transparency. While the thickness of the gelatin hydrogel sheet before transplantation was about 192.7±3.2 μm (N=9), the thickness on the 28th day after transplantation was reduced to 163.8 μm (N=9), exhibiting favorable degradability. Example 4 Transplantation of the Cultured Corneal Endothelial Cell Sheet Prepared with the Gelatin Hydrogel Sheet into the Rabbit Model of Bullous Keratopathy [0095] In accordance with the method of Example 2, rabbit-derived corneal endothelial cells were cultured on the gelatin hydrogel to prepare a cultured corneal endothelial cell sheet for transplants. The cultured corneal endothelial cell sheet thus prepared was transplanted into the rabbit model of bullous keratopathy from which the corneal endothelium had been completely removed. After transplantation, the corneal thickness was measured with a pachymeter and the anterior segment was observed. (1) Observation Image of the Ocular Surface [0096] On the 28th day after transplantation, transparency of the sheet transplanted into the anterior chamber and transparency of the cornea were both good and the iris could be seen through. Also, slit observation of the anterior segment showed no sign of inflammation, edema, or the like, and also, exfoliation of the sheet was not observed. (2) Corneal Thickness of the Transplanted Eye, Non-Transplanted Eye, and Normal Eye on the 7th and 21st Days After Transplantation [0097] Corneal thickness was compared among the transplanted eye, non-transplanted eye, and normal eye on the 7th and 21st days after transplantation. As a result, cultured corneal endothelial cells transplanted using the gelatin sheet as a carrier were functional as of postoperative day 21 and exhibited improved corneal thickness and transparency (FIG. 8). [0098] Separately, the eye ball was taken out on the 21st day after transplantation and subjected to HE staining (FIG. 9A) and DiI staining (FIG. 9B). In the HE staining, the gelatin sheet exfoliated from the stroma during preparation of a section; however, there was no accumulation of inflammatory cells at the adhesion site to the stroma (the image on the right is an enlarged view of the boxed part of the image on the left). DiI staining confirmed that DiI-positive, transplanted cultured endothelial cells remained on the gelatin sheet. INDUSTRIAL APPLICABILITY [0099] The sheet for corneal transplants having the gelatin hydrogel as a carrier of the present invention can be transplanted without impairing the function and form of endothelial cells. The sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention has favorable transparency and engraftment to the tissue after transplantation. Also, the rate of biodegradation in vivo can be adjusted by the preparation conditions, and it does not cause a problem such as inflammation reaction. Furthermore, the raw material gelatin hydrogel has already been clinically used. Accordingly, the sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention is extremely useful as an alternative therapy for corneal endothelial disease to conventional penetrating keratoplasty. Since the number of the patients with bullous keratopathy and the like eligible for a therapy with the sheet for corneal transplants of the present invention is estimated to reach several tens of thousands each year even in Japan alone, this therapy has a high potential commercial value. [0100] All the publications, patents, and patent applications cited in the present specification are incorporated herein by reference in their entirety. Patent applications by Yasuhiko Tabata, Kyoto JP Patent applications by KOYOTO UNIVERSITY Patent applications by TOHOKU UNIVERSITY:

24 hours of Vail Lake A Fatty asked me to do a write up on the 24 hours of Vail Lake. As I started writing this story, I realized it’s hard to write a dramatic story when everything goes as planned. It’s not like I was stuck out in the desert at night with no food, no water and no light. We couldn’t have asked for a better result, we had very few mechanicals and the whole team did super fast laps from start to finish.. Comment by Brewinman | 04.27.2007 | 5:48 am Kudos to the Jack Mormon Militia! Comment by BotchedExperiment | 04.27.2007 | 5:49 am HA that’s kind of a funny prize. Are you sure they weren’t punking you? I’m laughing extra hard because of the story Chucky told you and I about his trip to Mexico and the pool diving misadventure he had there. For those of you that weren’t on that ride when Chucky told us, suffice to say that Cucky and his girlfriend flunked out of dive school on a recent trip to mexico. Personally, I couldn’t/wouldn’t have been able to use the trip either. Great write race. I’m going to go to one of these races “incognito.” I’m dying to hear what other competitors and organizers say about you guys smoking everyone on rigid singlespeeds. Comment by GenghisKhan | 04.27.2007 | 5:55 am Hey, yesterday Barry1021 posted a nicely written open letter to the b@$t@r6 cancer in Mrs. Fatty (Susan, right?). Well, someone more creative and connected might want to suggest to Fatty a solidarity/fundraising t-shirt with that letter printed on the back for all of FATTY’S (Friends Against The Tyranny in Your Susan–see, I need more creative!) Army to proudly wear. The front could have FATTY’s ARMY emblazoned across it with the Fat Cyclist Jersey horse crushing a cancer cell. Just tryin’ to sow a seed… Comment by Tg | 04.27.2007 | 6:11 am Congrates! But, what a bogus prize! I say ripoff! Comment by msk | 04.27.2007 | 6:30 am outstanding job kenny and the team – v impressive you have shamed / inspired me to scrap my turner sultan 29er (5k) idea and thinking more rigid singlespeed (well for now) just a couple of questions for the bike geek in me are you all on 29ers? what frames and wheelsets? do you keep the same front ring and just change in the rear cog, or do you have to change both to get a comprehensive coverage of ratios? do you use a flip flop hub? prize sucks you should have gone first and got to choose whatever you wanted or given your ebay success could you have sold the dive trip? cheers msk Comment by poweredbywaffles | 04.27.2007 | 6:38 am you know id say “nice job on the race” but that just doesnt quite capture the total holy crapness of the accomplishment. you dudes are sick! what are they feeding you? & did i catch that right — you lapped second place?? do they start crying when you do that? on a side note, i didnt know vail lake was out here in socal. lol i saw “vail” and thought it was in colorado. nein, turns out its right here in the heart of the 909! floyd landis territory! truckers and dirt! welcome (belated) jack mormon militia! Comment by TidusBlue | 04.27.2007 | 6:45 am So, you lapped 2nd place once…. but the fact that you lapped 3rd place 4 times, well that’s just mean. Comment by Lowrydr | 04.27.2007 | 6:53 am So, are they looking at you for Dopping? Comment by Al Maviva | 04.27.2007 | 7:01 am Well done, boys. I hate to say this, but it has to be said: if you ride single speed, you are lucky to just not get a prize. You ride SS MTB, you should have been whacked with a cricket bat until your eyes bled. After all, you obviously don’t get enough suffering, so the prize should have entailed… more suffering! Truly impressive performance. Dropping the tongue from cheek, I’ve seen the light on the SS MTBs. It’s a nicer way to ride, you can really flow, and in fact have to learn to flow because you can’t get a do-over on the SS… mid-move or on a hill. You may not be fast when you start SS, because a geared bike lets you pick along through tough stuff in a granny gear. You ride SS… it makes you ride at a certain pace. You’ll pick it up… or we’ll be picking you up. For curious readers, there are some great options in single speed 29′ers. Redline makes one for under $500, and while it comes with cantilever brakes, you can get a decent mechanical disc brake for around $100… yeeeaahhh, you can be rolling big time, for dirt cheap. I think Raleigh and maybe Scott also make similar inexpensive SS 29ers for maybe $100 or $150 more than that. And yes, I’ve found rigid is plenty comfortable with the bigger tires, and they are the bomb for larger riders. Comment by JET(not a nickname) | 04.27.2007 | 8:30 am Riding a mountain bike for 24 hours. How foolish. And I say that because I wouldn’t last 15 minutes doing what you guys did. Well done gentleman! Comment by Boz | 04.27.2007 | 9:12 am I’d get used to the bogus prize conspiracy deal. The JMM are sure to be marked men at what ever race you guys enter. Bad enough to pummel with a single speed, but lapping the high-dollar teams just leads to hard feelings. Lucky a couple of made guys aren’t waiting out on the course at night. You’ve been warned. PS – good story !! Comment by Jay | 04.27.2007 | 9:25 am I don’t know…..I’d have a tendancy to make up my own jersies for next year. Maybe saying ” We won this race last year and we didn’t even get these lousy jersies.” Maybe that will wake those assholes up. Also maybe they figure that the guys with the $6,000 bikes can’t afford the rest of the gear…….frankly….i don’t get it. I guess they thought it was a great prize. Maybe one of the orginzers is a diver. Maybe they don’t want you guys to come back….you’re making the rest of them look bad. Go back next year and win it on beach cruisers…..that will show them…….LOL. Comment by Eufemiano Fuentes | 04.27.2007 | 11:00 am Good Showing Crappy Prize Comment by Clydesteve | 04.27.2007 | 11:46 am er yep, the prize was, indeed crappy+. I expect it was cathartic to give it back, but, maybe you ought to write the sod that is just going to keep it for hisself, ask for it back and sell it on EBay. Make sure and sent him a link. Conga-Rats on the impressive win. P.S. when I was going through Navy Nuclear Power School, I was stationed 6 months in Idaho Falls for training at the nuclear prototype site near Arco, ID. I used to drink a beer or two with a neighbor – a potato (potatoe?) farmer, who claimed to be a Jack Mormon, at least when it came to beer. His most memorable line: “Anyone who puts anything but butter, salt & pepper on a baked potato is a queer!” Personally, I never had such strong feelings about potato preparation, but, in Idaho……… I don’t think he rode a SS rigid 29er, either. Steve Comment by bikemike | 04.27.2007 | 12:14 pm good read man, holy crap. on the prize, well, i guess its like offering a steak dinner to vegetarian. fight the good fight! Comment by MTB W | 04.27.2007 | 1:28 pm Way to go! Lapping 2nd place? Wow- maybe you should go back next year with beach cruisers. In the few races I’ve been in, I felt like I was on a tricycle compared to everyone else. I can’t believe they didn’t try to offer the overall first place team something else. I agree with the others that you should contact them, get the prize and then e-bay it. Anyway, another great story! Glad you are helping FC out. Comment by Mrs. Coach | 04.27.2007 | 1:44 pm Hey, at least they offered you something of value. Last year when Bob got 3rd place in the Pro/1/2 on the Snowbird hill climb all he got was a water bottle. And it wasn’t even a big one. Just one of those dinky short ones. 50 minutes of eye popping, gut wrenching brutatlity and all he gets is a stinking water bottle?! Needless to say, we were pretty ticked. I think that if you come in the top 10 you should at the *very least* get your entry fee back or the equivalent in schwag. Comment by cyclechic | 04.27.2007 | 2:20 pm When I won UVAS I got a giant bottle of Olive Oil. Apparently, it was a $200 bottle of gormet Olive Oil but what the heck am I going to do with 3 gallons of olive oil that tastes like Carp? The diving trip doesn’t sound so bad… Comment by Bob | 04.27.2007 | 3:00 pm Congratulations, Kenny. I like to think I had something to do with the victory since I pushed you so hard at Gooseberry and Little Creek. I knew the training would pay off. The diving trip is goofy prize. It’s for certified scuba divers. You should have demanded a set of water bottles. Comment by LMouse | 04.27.2007 | 3:11 pm Cyclechic: Tastes like Carp? Sure it wasn’t fish oil? Snort, snort. Sorry, my bad. Couldn’t resist. The prize was awful, to be sure. In future, re-gift or E-bay. You’re too nice. Comment by Born 4 Lycra | 04.27.2007 | 4:44 pm Winners are Grinners. Was there a $ value on the prize did it include accommodation, boat hire, training etc. Sounds like it could have been quite a good prize. Surely the JMM is in it for the spritual rewards, the win, the medals, the team photo, the record (hopefully) and the inner satisfaction that comes with being a group of number 1’s. The win lasts for ever the prizes wear out, break, get lost or used up. Well I tried but the prize does seem somewhat lacking. Reminds me of a golf tournament we played in as a team and won over 36 holes years ago. We each won an Iron (steam variety for flattening clothes) the group that had the best score over the first 9 holes got Saeco Coffee machines! As the prizes dwindled down we stood there as overall champions looking at 4 Irons – gobsmacked! Like I said tho great performance and great win. Comment by spin echo | 04.27.2007 | 5:33 pm great writing — and congrats Comment by Boz | 04.28.2007 | 6:24 am My wife was in a triathlon 2 years ago, her first, and finished in the pack. But, the payoff at the end was great. The raffle included a Serotta tri-bike, a gear bag w/ helmet, shorts, shoes ect, and the prize my wife won – the complete Spinerval dvd collection. Now that was great swag. I have noticed alot of my wife’s doctor friends are into triathlons. Maybe that accounts for all the goodies. Comment by Jerry | 04.28.2007 | 9:42 am How old are you? 4? 5? The prize didn’t actually suck. It was just not what you expected. In fact you sound rather ungreatfull and a little petty. That sounds like the most expensive prize they had to give out int terms of $ value and your response shows your limitations and inability to stretch out in any way. You should act like a grown up and accept the prize with grace and dignity. If it was truly unusable because you would “NEVER” go to San Diego. Then wait and trade the prize for jerseys or something after the end of the ceremony. I truly hope you have better luck in terms of prizes in the future. Prehaps a pacifier will be on the prize table next time. Comment by Tg | 04.28.2007 | 7:35 pm Jerry, were you on the race committee? Comment by Co | 04.28.2007 | 8:23 pm Jerry was not only on the race committee, Jerry is a scuba diver who counted on the committee reclaiming the price. Jerry is not a biker. Jerry has no concept of anyone valuing anything other than what he values. Jerry probably would hand a steak dinner prize to a vegetarian. Comment by reader | 04.28.2007 | 10:15 pm Congrats on the win, but Jerry is right. The trip probably was worth the most dollars, and you gave it back, you didn’t trade it in. Comment by BotchedExperiment | 04.29.2007 | 5:09 am Jerry, you’re an idiot. Think about the prize and what using it would entail. They literally couldn’t use it (for at least 3 reasons). As for giving the prize back, how do you kow how they handled it? Were you there? Comment by deepersouth | 04.29.2007 | 7:08 am Assos jersey AND arm warmers evident in that fourth picture … I am glad the rigid singlespeed cult doesn’t preclude sartorial indulgence. I just hope there are Assos bibs under that jersey taking care of an unsuspended arse. Comment by spin echo | 04.29.2007 | 10:45 am i think jerry must be a troll — there is no need to be insulting, even if he disagrees either that, or he is on the race committee as others have suggested Comment by KatieA | 04.29.2007 | 3:19 pm See, I always thought those people that won got their prizes first, and one would think, pick of the table. Any I would have thought a lot of the teams involved wouldn’t be from the area, so why have a prize that most of you can’t use? But hey, they’re MUCH better prizes than our basketball ones (because, you know, adults don’t want trophies) – we got a shoe bag which is too small to hold ONE basketball boot, let alone two, a laptop bag with no padding so it would smash anything you kept in it, a wine glass with the stadium logo on it that washed off the first time I used it, a coffee mug that did the same & one year, we got a voucher for a beer at the lawn bowls club across the road. And that’s after we pay $60 a game. Be thankful in some respects… :) Comment by buckythedonkey | 04.29.2007 | 11:34 pm My first thought: you got stiffed on the prize for sure. My second: as soon as deeperSouth pointed out the presence of at least one Luxury Body on your team, I figure you deserve all the spalming you get. Shame on you for giving Jack Mormonism a bad name. Hats off to the race organiser! Trebles all round (except for Jerry who clearly has too much free time on his/her hands)! ;-) Comment by kenny | 04.30.2007 | 7:07 am MSK, Were all on GF rigs except chuck has the new Felt single. I’m running the new x-lite tubless bontragers. It’s a hugi 240 hub. These wheels are light and so far very durable. Al, Amen my brother Born4Lycra, I live on coffee. I would love that prize. Jerry, Your point well taken. wa wa KatieA, Coffee mugs, beer, wine glasses… these are all things I would use. buckythedonkey, my bro Jason truely has the luxury body. The ad finally makes perfect sense to me. Comment by buckythedonkey | 04.30.2007 | 10:16 am I’m gettin’ wood. ;-) Comment by MAJ Mike | 04.30.2007 | 12:55 pm In order to settle the controversy, i will be happy to accept the prize even though I haven’t ridden any kind of a single speed since I last got off a BMX dirt bike when I was 14. I think that would be perfectly fair…(says the guy who loves scuba diving…) Comment by Tg | 04.30.2007 | 1:36 pm Dr. Fuentes, perhaps you should do a post expressing your feelings about Ivan Basso’s request to be realeased from Team Discovery Channel. I think we would all be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter. Comment by Lurch | 05.1.2007 | 7:41 am Well….the Puerto situation in “Clintonesque” terms….Looks like they found the dress! Comment by dpcowboy | 05.1.2007 | 9:59 am The funky prize table thing is exactly why cash is generally a better option, followed by edibles, like donuts, restaurant certificates, or even bags of chips. If they knew they were about to run out of prizes, they coulda ponied up something appropriate…i think they don’t like Mormons, or even Jack Mormons. I once won a prime in a criterium in Santa Cruz, and when I went to collect it, I found out it was a pie….great, I thought…then the earth mama who supposedly donated the prime told me that she hadn’t made it yet, and had hoped that a local rider would win it, so she could make it later. Later that night as my teammates and I were arriving at our ‘guest’ housing (locals who donated their homes/floors for visiting teams) we were surprised to find the same earth mama at the door and…you guessed it…she didn’t have any space. Trackback by Buy oxycodone online. | 02.1.2008 | 11:40 pm Buy oxycodone without prescription. Buy oxycodone online. Buy oxycodone without prescription. Buy oxycodone. Buy oxycodone online without. Trackback by Buy ambein. | 05.6.2008 | 1:28 pm Buy ambein. Buy ambein.

This application is a continuation; of application Ser. No. 914,441, filed Oct. 2, 1986, which is incorporated by reference as if fully set forth herein, abandoned which is a division of application Ser. No. 731,321 filed May 2, 1985 which is now U.S. Pat. No. 4,633,886. 1. Field of the Invention This invention relates to a device for home use detection of cervical and vaginal carcinoma and the like. 2. Description of the Prior Art Statistics indicate that a large number of women die each year as a result of cervical cancer. Gynecologists generally agree that a great proportion of these fatalities could have been avoided if the cervical cancer had been diagnosed earlier. In an ideal situation, women would receive a medical check at short intervals so that the existence of cervical and vaginal carcinoma could be readily diagnosed at an early stage of development and remedial action could be taken before the disease reached a critical stage. All too often the existence of abnormal squamous cells is detected at a stage where the only remedial action is a hysterectomy or removal of all or part of the uterus. Even with the provision of a hysterectomy, surgeons have often found that because of the delay in detecting the infection, the operation has not proved successful in halting the progress of this dreaded disease. There are a number of factors which deter women from frequent medical tests for cervical and vaginal carcinoma. Firstly, the cost involved in providing medical personnel for carrying out an internal examination has escalated over recent years. Therefore, if a woman is to be examined even once every month, the financial burden imposed upon her often becomes prohibitive. Secondly, a certain degree of embarassment is experienced by most women as they undergo such an internal examination. This embarassment is often magnified in view of the existence of relatively few female gynecologists. Thirdly, the time required by a woman to attend a diagnostic clinic often results in a serious problem, particularly if such visits are to be on a frequent basis. In such cases, the woman, if employed, must require considerable time away from the job. Alternatively, the woman may have young children, and if she is to attend a clinic, it becomes necessary for her to engage the services of a babysitter. In order to overcome the aforementioned problems, a home use detection device for the detection of cervical and vaginal carcinoma offers many attractive advantages. By the provision of a low cost home use device, a woman is able to carry out such a test at least once a month if not several times a month. The present invention contemplates two embodiments of testing wherein the first embodiment requires the test cells to be forwarded by mail or the like to a testing laboratory whereas the second embodiment enables the cells to be immediately testing in the home. In either embodiment, the woman is released from the embarassment from undergoing an internal examination by a medical practitioner. Not only is the woman permitted to carry out the test in the privacy of her own home, but also, she saves herself the high cost of a medical examination and the other various problems associated with such visits to a medical practitioner such as the arrangements needed to care for her children during such visits. With regard to the actual requirements for the successful diagnosis of cervical and/or vaginal carcinoma, a sample of cervical or vaginal epithelium is taken by the woman herself. Such epithelium is cellular tissue that covers the surfaces and lines the internal walls of the vaginal cavity. In the first embodiment, the epithelium sample is mixed with a fixing solution and is mailed to a pathological laboratory. At the laboratory, the epithelium sample has added thereto an iodine stain which indicates the existence of normal squamous cell epithelium because normal squamous cell epithelium contains glycogen. The iodine stain reacts with the glycogen to provide a visual indication of normal squamous cell epithelium. However, in the case of abnormal squamous cell epithelium, such epitheliums exhibits pathological activity and is thought to contain little or no glycogen. In view of this lack of glycogen, an abnormal sample of epithelium will not demonstrate the same visual indication when iodine stain is added to the same, thus indicating the existence of squamous cell carcinoma. Since squamous cell carcinoma is thought to comprise over 90% of all cervical carcinomas, this method of cancer detection is very desirable. In the second embodiment, a sample of cervical or vaginal epithelium is again taken by the woman. The epithelium sample is then mixed with an iodine stain which indicates the existence of normal squamous cell epithelium upon the reaction of the iodine stain with the glycogen. Abnormal sample cells contain little or no glycogen and will not react with the iodine stain. Accordingly, in the second embodiment, a color comparison chart is provided to enable the woman to compare the color of the sample cells treated with the iodine stain with the color comparison chart to indicate the existence of abnormal cells. Various prior art devices have been proposed for carrying out home use detection of abnormal conditions in the function of the human body. Among such prior art devices can be listed equipment for home use detection of blood pressure and home use testing for pregnancy. More particularly, pap smear kits are known in which the kit includes a cotton wool swab for taking up an epithelium sample and a mailing folder for mailing the sample to a cytology laboratory for diagnosis. In the United States alone, seventy million such pap smears are collected each year and are tested for diagnosis of cancer. However, in the majority of such cases, these pap smears are obtained by skilled medical personnel and not by the patient herself. Therefore, it is the primary object of this invention to provide a device for home use detection of cervical and vaginal carcinoma and the like. Therefore, an object of this invention is the provision of a low cost home use device for obtaining a sample of squamous cell epithelium. Another object of the present invention is the provision of a device which is convenient to use by a woman to obtain from herself a sample of squamous cell epithelium. Another object of this invention is the provision of a device which overcomes the problems associated with frequent visits to a medical clinic for internal examinations. Another object of this invention is the provision of a home use device wherein the testing and the results thereof may be obtained at the home of the user. Another object of this invention is the provision of a home use device which is easily able to be sent by mail to a pathological laboratory, or more particularly, a cytology laboratory as the cytology laboratory specialized in diagnosis of pap smears. Another object of the invention is the provision of a tube having a rounded end for insertion within the vagina. A flexible diaphragm cooperates with a plunger for aspirating a sample of squamous epithelium from the vagina into the elongated tube. A fixing container having a rupturable membrane and containing a fixing solution forms a sealing engagement upon insertion of the elongated tube into the cylindrical portion to rupture the membrane and mix the fixing solution with the squamous epithelium from the vagina. Another object of this invention is the provision of a probe for removing a sample of squamous epithelium from the vagina or cervix. A staining container having a rupturable membrane and containing an iodine stain solution enables the cells present on the probe to be mixed with the iodine stain. The color of the treated cells is then compared to a color comparison chart accompanying the test kit. The foregoing has outlined some of the more pertinent objects of the present invention. These objects should be construed as being merely illustrative of some of the more prominent features and applications of the invention. Many other beneficial results can be attained by applying the disclosed invention in a different manner or modifying the invention within the scope of the disclosure. Particularly with regard to the use of the invention disclosed herein, this should not be construed as limited to a device for home use detection of cervical and vaginal carcinoma, but should include a disposable device for home use detection of any abnormal condition of the squamous cell epithelium of the vaginal or cervical region. The detection device of the present invention is defined by the appended claims with a specific embodiment shown in the attached drawing. A device is disclosed for home use detection of cervical and vaginal carcinoma. The device comprises a probe of various designs including an aspiration device or a swab for removing cells from the vagina or cervix. The probe is encased to provide a sterile environment. The device includes a container having a rupturable membrane for maintaining a solution in a sterile environment prior to breaking of the rupturable membrane. The rupturable membrane is established for being severed by the probe enabling the probe containing the removed cells to be immersed in the solution in the container. In a first embodiment, the container contains a fixing solution for reacting with the cells on the probe enabling the transfer of the sample cells to a testing laboratory. In a second embodiment of the invention, the container contains an iodine solution for reacting with the sample cells. The color of the stained sample cells is then compared to a color chart for providing an immediate indication of the test results. In the first embodiment of the invention, the container having a rupturable membrane maintains a fixing solution therein in a sterile condition prior to the breaking of the rupturable membrane. The rupturable membrane is established for being severed by the probe enabling the probe containing the removed cells to be immersed in the fixing solution in a sterile condition. The container and the probe are established to provide a sealing engagement therebetween enabling the removed vaginal cells immersed in the fixing solution to be forwarded to the test laboratory for further analysis. In the second embodiment of the invention, the container having a rupturable membrane maintains an iodine stain in a sterile condition prior to breaking the rupturable membrane. The rupturable membrane is established to be severed by the probe enabling the probe containing the removed cells to be immersed in the iodine stain in a sterile condition. A comparison chart comprising a plurality of colors is provided for comparing the extent of stain by the iodine of the cells present on the probe to enable the consumer to determine the presence of abnormal sample cells. In either the first or second embodiments of the invention, a probe may comprise a semi-rigid member with a swab disposed at the distal end thereof or in the alternative, may comprise an aspirator device for removing cells from the consumer. Various other probe devices may likewise be used for this invention. The foregoing has outlined rather broadly the more pertinent and important features of the present invention in order that the detailed description of the invention that follows may be better understood so that the present contribution to the art can be more fully appreciated. Additionally, features of the invention will be described hereinafter which form the subject of the claims of the invention. It should be appreciated by those skilled in the art that the conception of a specific embodiment disclosed may be readily utilized as a basis for modifying or designing other devices for carrying out the same purposes as the same invention. It should also be realized by those skilled in the art that such equivalent constructions do not depart from the spirit and scope of the invention as set forth in the appended claims. For a fuller understanding of the nature and the objects of the invention, reference should be had to the following description taken in conjunction with the accompanying drawings in which: FIG. 1 is a side view in section of a first embodiment of a home use detection device of the present invention; FIG. 2 is a side view in section of the device shown in FIG. 1 with the rounded head, flexible diaphragm and a portion of the elongated tube inserted within the fixing container; FIG. 3 is a cross-sectional view taken on the line 3--3 of FIG. 1; FIG. 4 is a cross-sectional view taken on the line 4--4 of FIG. 1; FIG. 5 is a plan view of a second embodiment for a home use detection device of the present invention in a consumer package; FIG. 6 is a sectional view of the second embodiment removed from the consumer package; FIG. 7 is a sectional view of the second embodiment showing the removal of a probe; FIG. 8 is a sectional view of the second embodiment illustrating the severing of a portion of the device; FIG. 9 is a sectional view of the second embodiment of the invention showing the staining of sample cells; and FIG. 10 is a plan view of the second embodiment illustrating the comparison of the stained cells to a color chart. Similar reference characters refer to similar parts throughout the several views of the drawings. FIG. 1 is a side view in section of a first embodiment home use device for the detection of cervical or vaginal carcinoma. The device includes a probe shown as an elongated tube 10 having at one end thereof a rounded end 12 defining a plurality of orifice 14. A flexible diaphragm 16 is disposed within the elongated tube 10 and is secured to the internal wall 18 of the elongated tube 10 by means of diametrically opposed recesses 20. A plunger, generally designated 22 is disposed within the elongated tube 10 and is axially moveable relative to the elongated tube 10. The plunger 22 includes a piston 24 which is releasably secured to a central bulbous portion 26 of the flexible diaphragm 16. The piston 24 is connected to a piston rod 28 having a trigger 30. Axial movement of the piston 24 relative to the elongated tube 10 is limited by internally projecting stops 32 and 34 which project inwardly from the internal wall 18 of the elongated tube 10. A first set of stops 32 limits movement of the piston away from the rounded end 12 of the elongated tube 10 while a second set of stops 34 limits movement of the piston 24 towards the rounded end 12. Internally projecting longitudinally extending splines 36 extend from and are integral with the internal wall 18 of the elongated tube 10. The splines 36 cooperate with longitudinally extending grooves 38 defined by the piston 24 to guide the piston 24 along the internal wall 18 of the elongated tube 10 as shown in FIG.. 3. The splines 36 and cooperating grooves 38 function to prevent relative rotation between the piston 24 and the elongated tube 10 which could sever the connection between the piston 24 and the bulbous portion 26. Additionally, the splines 36 and grooves 38 locate the trigger 30 relative to the second set of stops 34. A shield 40 is disposed integrally with the elongated tube 10 at the end of the elongated tube 10 remote from the rounded end 12. The integral shield 40 serves the purpose of limiting the distance to which the rounded end 12 and elongated tube 10 is able to penetrate into the vagina. A fixing container generally designated 42 includes a cylindrical portion 44 having an internal diameter 45 substantially the same as the external diameter of the elongated tube 10 to create a sealing engagement therebetween as shown in FIG. 2. The fixing container 42 further includes an ampoule 46 and a rupturable membrane 48 disposed between the ampoule 46 and the cylindrical portion 44. The ampoule 46 may be of a cup shaped configuration having a rim 50. The rim 50 includes an annular upstanding ridge 52 to which the peripheral edge 54 of the membrane 48 is sonically welded. The membrane 48 has a first side 56 which is in contact at the peripheral edge 54 with the ridge 52. An annular portion 58 of the membrane 48 is of reduced thickness to facilitate the rupture of the membrane 48 when the rounded end 12 of the elongated tube 10 is inserted into the cylindrical portion 44 and against the second side 60 of the membrane 48. Inwardly projecting ears 62, disposed at the distal end of the cylindrical portion 44 cooperate with an annular groove 64 defined by the external wall 66 of the elongated tube 10 such that when the rounded end 12 is inserted within the cylindrical portion 44, the inwardly projecting ears 62 snap into locking engagement with the annular groove 64 while the forward end of the rounded end 12 presses against the second side 60 of the membrane 48 and ruptures the same by virtue of the reduced thickness of the annular portion 58. A fluid tight seal is created between the internal diameter 45 and the cylindrical portion 44 and the external diameter of the elongated tube 10. With the membrane 48 ruptured, the fixing solution contained within the ampoule 46 is permitted to flow through the plurality of orifice 14 and mix with the squamous cell epithelium contained within the elongated tube 10 and fix the same. The external wall 66 of the elongated tube 10 is provided with a weakened section 68 located at a greater distance from the rounded end 12 than the distance of the annular groove 64 from the rounded end 12. The weakened section 68 is provided to permit the breaking away of a portion of the elongated tube 10 and integral shield 40 and plunger from the rounded end 12, diaphragm 16 and a portion of the elongated tube 10 within the fixing container 42. The broken off portion containing the fixed sample of squamous cell epithelium as shown in FIG. 2 can then be placed within a mailing envelope for dispatch to the pathological laboratory. As shown more particularly in FIG. 2, the flexible diaphragm 16 includes a first side 70 which together with the rounded end 12 and a portion of the elongated tube 10, defines a cavity 72 for the reception of aspirated squamous cell epithelium. The flexible diaphragm 16 is secured adjacent the internal wall 18 of the elongated tube 10 along the peripheral edge 74 of the diaphragm. A second side 76 of the diaphragm 16 is releasably secured to the piston 24 in the region of the bulbous portion 26. In this manner, the elongated tube 10 is divided by the flexible diaphragm 16 into a first portion 78 which in part defines the cavity 72 and a second portion 80 which bonuses the plunger 22. In use of the detection device, the rounded end 12 of the elongated tube 10 is inserted within the vagina and penetrates the vaginal canal as far as permitted by the integral shield 40. At this location, the rounded end 12 is disposed in the region of the cervix. The plunger 22 is reciprocated within the elongated tube 10 by manipulation of the trigger 30 which is an extension of the piston rod 28. Axial movement of the piston rod 28 results in reciprocation of the piston 24 and the releasably secured bulbous portion 26 of the flexible diaphragm 16. Reciprocation of the flexible diaphragm 16 aspirates squamous cell epithelium from the cervical; region through the plurality of orifice 14 into the cavity 72. Having taken an epithelium sample as described herein before, the elongated tube 10 is removed from the vagina and the rounded end 12 is inserted into the cylindrical portion 44 of the fixing container 42 until the inwardly projecting ears 62 lockably engage the annular grooves 64 disposed around the external wall 66 of the elongated tube 10 thus creating a seal between the internal diameter 45 and the external diameter of the elongated tube 10 At this location within the cylindrical portion 44, the rounded end 12 presses against the second side 60 of the membrane and ruptures the same about the annular portion 58 of the rupturable membrane due to the reduced thickness of the annular portion 58. With the membrane ruptured, the fixing solution contained within the ampoule 46 flows through the plurality of orifice 14 to mix with the squamous cell epithelium to stabilize the cells within the cavity 72. The shield 40 and plunger 22 housed within a portion of the elongated tube 10 are then removed from the fixing container 42, rounded end 12 and diaphragm 16 by breaking the elongated tube 10 about the weakened section 68. The fixing container 42 and fixed epithelium sample contained within the cavity 72 are then inserted into a mailing folder for dispatch to a cytological laboratory for diagnosis of the enclosed sample. The device of the present invention may be of any suitable material but preferably the elongated tube 10 and fixing container 42 are of plastic material and the flexible diaphragm is of a rubber or plastic material. FIGS. 5-10 illustrate a second embodiment of the invention shown as a home cancer kit 90 comprising a semi-rigid board such as cardboard 92 and an overlapping plastic material such as a shrink wrap or the like or blister pack for covering a testing instrument 96 and a color chart 98 in an untampered condition. An aperture 100 may be utilized for suspending the kit 90 in a display rack. Appropriate trademarks and descriptive terms such as 102 may be printed on the board with appropriate instructions on the reverse side of the board 92 (not shown). The device 96 shown in more detail in FIGS. 6-10 comprises a probe 110 shown as a semi-rigid member such as tubular plastic and the like containing a swab 114 affixed to a first end 111 of member 110. The swab is preferably chemically treated or of a material which is impervious to an iodine stain whereby the swab material is not discolored by insertion within an iodine stain solution. This ensures that the only color present on the swab 114 will be the staining of cells. The second end 112 of the semi-rigid member 110 is received within an aperture 115 of a base 116 of a tubular cap 118. A tubular end cap 118 is preferably made of a plastic material which may receive the second end 112 of the semi-rigid member 110 by a press-fit or suitable adhesive fastening. A body member 120 is shown as a tubular plastic member which receives an ampoule end cap 122 which forms a sealing engagement with the body member 120 by a suitable fastening such as sonic welding or adhesive, for example, at 124. The ampoule end cap 122 includes a rupturable membrane 126 which is shown in the embodiment affixed by sonic welding, adhesive or the like, to the an 128 of body member 120. Although the rupturable membrane 126 has been shown secured to the end 128 of body member 120, it should be appreciated by those skilled in the art that numerous other positions and affixing means may be utilized with the present invention. The ampoule defined by the ampoule end 122 and the rupturable membrane 126 maintains an iodine stain 130 in a sterile condition prior to use. The body member 120 includes a weakened region 132 in the wall thereof for severing a frangible portion 120A from body member 120 as well be described in greater detail hereinafter. FIG. 6 illustrates the device 96 immediately after removal from the consumer package 90 as shown in FIG. 5. FIG. 7 illustrates the removal of the end cap 118 and the associated semi-rigid member 110 and the swab 114 for inserting the swab 114 into the vaginal canal to collect specimen cells. Thereafter, the frangible portion 120A of the body member 120 is removed by breaking by the consumer as shown in FIG. 8 enabling the semi-rigid member 110 and the swab 114 to be inserted in the body member 120 as shown in FIG. 9. Since the frangible portion 120A of body member 120 has been removed, the complete insertion of the end cap 118 on body member 120 enables the swab 114 to sever membrane 126 and immerse the swab 114 into the iodine stain 130. This process ensures that the outer portion 127 of the membrane 126 non-contacting the iodine stain is maintained in a sterile condition along with the swab 114, the semi-rigid member 110 and the like. After proper staining by the iodine stain 130, the end cap 118 and semi-rigid member 110 is again withdrawn from body member 120 and the swab 114 is compared to the color chart 98 as shown in FIG., 10. A color chart 98 comprises a plurality of colors 140-146 for comparison with the color of the stained cells on the swab 114. If the cells are normal, the normal cells with combine with the iodine and produce an iodine stained sample. However, if the cells are abnormal, the iodine stain will not react with the sample cells and non-iodine stained specimen will be present. By comparing the actual color of the cells on swab 114 with the color charts specifically color blocks 140-146, the presence of abnormal cells may be detected by the consumer. The foregoing has disclosed a novel device in a first and a second embodiment for the home detection of cervical or vaginal cancer. It should be appreciated that although two probes have been disclosed for the present invention, numerous other probes may be utilized and the probes may be interchanged within the two different embodiments as should be well known to those skilled in the art. A device for home use detection of cervical and vaginal carcinoma as herinbefore described provides a low cost means for a woman to regularly take epithelium samples in the privacy of her own home. The device additionally provides a reduction in the demands placed upon medical personnel who already are faced with enormous work load construction and arrangements of parts may be resorted to without departing from the spirit and scope of the invention.

I. I. Tuesday, September 30, 2008 From outer space to the wild west I. Monday, September 29, 2008 Required Reading: The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald read more. Saturday, September 27, 2008 The Extracurricular Education: How to Fake the Numbers read more Among a small handful of books that I consider essential, Darrell Huff's 1954 classic How to Lie with Statistics is the one probably best suited to our current political and financial situation. While all of my English teachers in high school were (rightly) flogging Strunk and White, both my math teachers and my history teachers should have been forcing us to purchase our own copies of Huff's book. I'm even slightly chuffed my Journalism teacher never mentioned this book. In the introduction Huff points out that "This book is a primer in ways to use statistics to deceive. It may seem altogether too much like a manual for swindlers." But he is quick to note "The crooks already know these tricks; honest men must learn them in self defense." Indeed, in these days of politicians claiming media bias (when the media doesn't agree with them) or in financial meltdowns where numbers so huge no longer shock our senses, it takes an extra bit of mental jujitsu to not be confused by numbers casually tossed around without question. In a very approachable manner Huff tosses out examples of how statistics are molded and shaped to mean whatever the bearer wants them to mean. The problem may not even be in the inaccuracy of the information given but in the information not included with the data. One of Huff's examples is a simple coin toss experiment where the result of ten flips yielded a different result than the traditional assumption of a 50% draw for either side of the coin. Reporting 80% heads isn't factually wrong, but it isn't statistically correct, and Huff is thorough in explaining how to root out the fault in the data. At the very end Huff includes a chapter called "How to Talk Back to a Statistic" that provides five simple questions any citizen can ask when confronted with a statistical number presently plainly as fact. The one thing a lie cannot withstand is a question, and under the weight of five questions a statistic should reveal itself quite plainly. For another take on a similar topic, A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper by John Allen Paulos specifically looks at the way math and numbers are used in news stories. Using some very simple math Paulos examines advertising claims, electoral shenanigans, examines the true cost of last savings-and-loan bailout, and basically will leave you unable to see or hear a number used without wondering what else is behind it. The problems with the use and abuse of statistics and numbers in our daily lives should be a call to arms against apathy. Too often I have heard adults, when confronted with contradictory information, simply choose a side and call the other side liars. I also hear a lot of people use the words "bias" and "agenda" interchangeably when listening to politicians and news reports when all that was required was a little scratching at the surface, a simple question of source. It makes me wonder if the reason my teachers in school weren't pushing books like these on us was because they weren't a little afraid they'd have to answer a lot of questions themselves about the efficacy of those standardized test scores, or about how those test scores were averaged, and why, if this information is out there, do people keep falling for the same old statistics? How to Lie With Statistics by Darrell Huff W.W. Norton 1954 A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper John Allen Paulos Anchor Books 1995 Friday, September 26, 2008 Icecore read more Carl Hobbes is not a terrorist. All he did was hack into Fort Knox—just to see if he could—but the US government tracked him down and offered a deal. If he'd answer some questions, he wouldn't be prosecuted and extradited to the United States for a trial. What they didn’t tell Carl was where the interrogation would take place: in Icecore, also known as the Guantánamo Bay of the North. It doesn’t matter that he’s only seventeen years old and a British citizen.. If you haven't read either and are simply looking for a book with lots of action, Icecore is the one to go Thursday, September 25, 2008 The Adoration of Jenna Fox read more Reviewed by Steven Wolk.. Wednesday, September 24, 2008 So You Want to Rule The World: Part 4 “Presidential elections are planned distractions, To divert attention from the action behind the scenes.” -Timbuk3 If you want to rule the world, you’re going to have to know how it actually works. You can’t take over the planet if you don’t know who you’re taking it over from. So, how can you find out what’s going on behind the curtain? The first place to start is “Freakonomics.” Freakonomics cracked the code on everyday stuff, like the secrets of real estate agents and Sumo wrestlers. The idea here is that if you keep your mind open and get good data you can find out what’s really going on. For example, you’d expect that a real estate agent would want to sell your house at the highest price, right? That way they get a higher commission. But when the Freakonomics guy ran the numbers he came away with a different conclusion. And you wouldn’t think a Sumo wrestler would throw a match would you? Again, run the numbers and you might be surprised. The book is fascinating, but understanding Sumo wrestlers isn’t going to get you any closer to ruling the world. The BIG IDEA is understanding that there’s more to the world than what we think. Reading the book is like seeing behind the Matrix for the first time. It’s all in the numbers. If you can find an old copy of “The Screwing of the Average Man,” it‘ll open your eyes, too. It’ll show you how many people are dipping into your wallet -- and maybe even give you ideas about how to dip into other people’s wallets. If you’d rather read some fast-paced fiction, try “The Pelican Brief.” The idea here is to show how, with billions of dollars at stake, a company might almost invisibly reach out to control Washington. Not take over, just take a little action behind the scenes to make the game come out their way. Burning Bookmarks read) Tuesday, September 23, 2008 The Superheroes of Olympus read more When Guys Lit Wire came into being, my pledge to all the fine contributors to this blog---and its readers---was to cover those picture books that are really aimed at older readers, and today's spotlighted book is one of the year's best examples of this: a picture book best geared at pre-teen readers and up. Teens who are fans of graphic novels will be particularly attracted to the title, Charles R. Smith Jr.'s The Mighty Twelve: Superheroes of Greek Myth (Little, Brown Books for Young Readers, March 2008), illustrated by American comic book writer, artist, and illustrator P. Craig Russell, best known (arguably) for his collaborations with writer Neil Gaiman. It's an introduction to Greek mythology with poems and comic-book-style illustrations, an innovative blend of the ancient and modern-day. It's the gods and goddesses of Olympus---in all their impressive, superhuman glory---depicted as "muscle-bound Greek gods...heroes and villains with flowing hair, ripped bods and strategically draped togas—or, in Zeus's case, a well-placed eagle's wing" (straight from Publishers Weekly's mixed review of the title). Smith welcomes us to Olympus before Zeus even appears: "Welcome to the world of immortal men and women, the gods and goddesses of Greece who rule their dominion from high on Olympus, their eternal home, above Grecian mountaintops and clouds where each throne sits and shines and puts on display the personality of all Olympians while they work or play, cause chaos or say wicked words that lead many astray." We then meet Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Cerberus, Hermes, Apollo, Artemis, Ares, Aphrodite, Hephaestus, Athena, Medusa, Hera, and...whew, Dionysus -- all followed by a "Who's Who" (complete with fun facts and listings of each god's or goddess' Special Powers/Weapons/Tools) and a bibliography for further reading. I think there are some flaws in this one: The meter in many of the verses is sometimes a bit off, too forced or structured awkwardly, as the School Library Journal review noted, and "confusingly verbose" -- though, Kirkus writes, "{s}till, an emphatic, beat-heavy read-aloud of the verses may provide the more memorable experience here for young audiences." In fact, at Smith's site, readers can hear him read some of the poems in just this manner. But this book still packs a punch in many ways, primarily its success in making Greek mythology accessible to more reluctant readers who may otherwise turn away from the topic -- and even very eager ones who enjoy their comic books. (In a detailed May '08 interview with Kelly Fineman at Writing and Ruminating, Smith shared, "{w}ith so many books out there about the Gods and Goddesses, I knew that {analogizing them to superheroes} would help it stand out, but also reflect what the poems talked about. The idea came from my love of comic books as a teen and my interest in Greek mythology.") With Russell giving them the ripped bodies and long, flowing, wind-swept hair of the superheroes many comic book readers can't get enough of, there will be those who argue the superficiality of it all. But (and, to be sure, I'm simplifying matters), there will always be those students who can read but don't---or at least prefer their graphically-sequenced novels or comic books over straight-up novels or thick, verbose non-fiction titles---who are going to favor Smith and Russell's contemporary take on Greek mythology to, well...Edith Hamilton. Or, in the words of Publishers Weekly again, "Smith and Russell make the pairing of classical material and a comics-like format look completely natural, with a gee-why-didn't-we-think-of-that simplicity." Gee, I am glad they thought of that. Recommended for comic book lovers everywhere. Sunday, September 21, 2008 Swords: An Artist's Devotion I have a 17-month-old son, and one of the observations I often hear from other parents is, "Oh, a boy... anything you give them, they turn it into a weapon." This usually accompanies one of two unreconcilable pieces of advice: 1) "so it's even more important that you never give them toy guns and swords!" or 2) "so don't even bother trying to keep them away from toy guns and swords, because it doesn't matter." I won't pretend to analyze whether that's nature or nurture, or whether it's even true. But I gave my son a big stalk of celery last week, and within about 30 seconds he was chasing the cats, bellowing and swinging it around like a claymore. Like a lot of my friends growing up--and, frankly, to this day--my reading definitely has included books about swords (and guns, and Civil War battle tactics, and the historical evolution of polearms and tanks and... hmmm, maybe there's a pattern here). So when I got my hands on Swords: An Artist's Devotion, I couldn't put it down. And then I only parted with it because a couple friends who were reading over my shoulder (yes, both guys) kept bugging me for it. read more Swords is technically "suitable for ages 9 and up," but Ben Boos (the author and artist behind it) has said he intended the book for all ages--especially gamers and anyone else who thinks that swords are as cool as he does. Boos quit his job as a video-game artist (working on a few different titles in the Diablo series for Blizzard) to write and illustrate Swords. If you compare the art in, say, Diablo or WoW to the art in the magazine or banner ads promoting those games, you can imagine that working within the tiny, pixel-by-pixel constraints of an actual game can be kind of limiting. So Boos wanted to cut loose with a whole new level of detail--and that's what you get in this, what's essentially a really beautiful art book. The dozens of almost absurdly detailed sword illustrations (along with tons of sketches) are the star of the show here, but Boos adds a bunch of cool historical details, too--everything from an excerpt from Beowulf (with an accompanying sketch of Hrunting!) to explanations of Damascus steel, Korea's Silla knights, and the favored weapon of the landsknecht mercenaries (that would of course be the Katzbalger, which means both "cat gutter" and "suitable for the fight"). Readergirlz offer Night Bites for Teen Read Week In honor of Young Adult Library Services Association's (YALSA) Teen Reed Week October 13th-17th, readergirlz is hosting Night Bites, a series of online live chats with authors at the readergirlz discussion forum, every weeknight that week starting at 6 PM PST/9 PM EST. Guys, readergirlz isn't exclusively for girls - in fact, some of our "regulars" at the forum are male, and our Night Bites lineup includes male authors, such as Christopher Golden - so don't be shy! Come on over and see what's what. We'd love to see GuysLitWire folks come hang out at the forum and participate in the chats. View the awesome Night Bites poster. P.S. Next month, in addition to Night Bites, readergirlz is spotlighting Nick & Norah's Infinite Playlist by Rachel Cohn and David Levithan. Rock on! Friday, September 19, 2008 Bands on the Road read more The upcoming book Bands on the Road: the Tour Sketchbook features sketches and memories from members of Belle and Sebastian, Coldplay, Death Cab for Cutie, Franz Ferdinand, The Hives, Interpol, The Killers, Maroon 5, and more. "The contributing musicians were asked to think about something in the past that had an important impact on them, a person or event that still resonates, and to draw it. The resulting sketches and their connected stories reveal a personal dimension to their lives that no interview ever could." Entertainment Weekly has a sneak peek. The Mystery of the Fool & the Vanisher The following book is recommended for photographers and fans of photography, guys interested in history/archaeology, and those interested in exploring the possibility of the existence of something commonly known as pixies or faeries. But this is no girly fairy tale. What The Mystery of the Fool & the Vanisher seems to be: a straight-up account of a modern writer and photographer, David Ellwand, finding evidence of the existence of actual pixies or faeries. Inside an old, locked wooden box he finds hidden near the ruins of a decrepit house, Ellwand discovers the story of Isaac Wilde, a nineteenth-century photographer who has left a journal, some photographs, some artifacts, and a wax recording. Wilde accompanied an archaeological dig during Victorian times, and they delved inside a barrow that should not have been disturbed. What The Mystery of the Fool & the Vanisher is: A graphic novel of a different kind, in which the visuals are all (or mostly) photographs or photographs of objects. The photographs are produced through a variety of media, including daguerrotypes and more. The details of what philosophical societies during the time of Queen Victoria were like are spot on, as are the descriptions of the Victorian fondness for "science" and archaeology. This one will leave you wondering what was real, and what was fiction, and where, exactly, that line blurred. When I say that "you simply must see and read" this book, I don't mean that you'd only believe it if you read it. I mean GO READ THE BOOK. But This graphic novel contains photographs by David Ellwand (some of people, some of objects, some of sketches). These aren't just any photographs. Some of them are from highly modern equipment, but a number of them are from very old processes involving glass. Some are even daguerrotypes, positive images made using silver and mercury. The front matter, located in the back of the book, bears this notation about the photos: "The photographs were created with magic and necromancy." Having seen the book, I believe it. of two-page spread from part I of the book David Ellwand spins a story about a mysterious happening on the Downs of England, a land of flint and chalk and barrows, referenced by J.R.R. Tolkien in The Fellowship of the Ring.) Bringing the Boy Home read more N.A. Nelson's debut novel, Bringing the Boy Home, is all about adventure. Set partly in the Amazon jungle, partly in the United States, it is the story of two young men of the Takunami tribe and their experiences as they approach their coming-of-age rituals on their thirteenth birthdays. At the age of six, Tirio was cast out of his community because of a physical deformity. One day, his mother took Tirio to the river, watched him clamber into his "corpse canoe" and then pushed the boat into the waters of the Amazon, believing that she was sending him to his death. According to Takunami beliefs, Tirio was not strong enough to become a warrior because of his disability, and so he had to be sacrificed to uphold his family's honor. But he did not die. He was found. Adopted by an American anthropologist, Tirio grows up in the United States, but he never forgets his birthplace, and though he is happy and loved, he longs to return to the jungle to prove his strength. More than anything, he hopes to have the chance to complete his soto seche tente, the sixth-sense test that all Takunami boys must pass in order to meet their father and be recognized by the tribe as a worthy warrior. Nelson's tale really rips along, with short chapters that alternate perspectives between Tirio's story and Luka's, a Takunami boy who is in the midst of training hard for his sixth-sense test. Without giving too much away, I thought it was clever the way the author brought the two narratives together at the end of the novel without really forecasting where things were headed. Of course you're quite curious to figure out the connection between the threads of the novel as you read along, but I didn't anticipate how things eventually turned out. The evocation of the setting is particularly satisfying. The intensity of jungle life, and the challenges of survival under such dangerous conditions adds greatly to the overall tension of the plot. The story was inspired by the author's visit to Brazil, and her appreciation of the diversity of the plant and animal life and the various Amazon communities as well. The Takunami tribe is imaginary, but Nelson has created an entirely believable culture that feels complex, exotic and intriguing. As further proof of her passion for this part of the world, Nelson is donating some of the profits to the Amazon Conservation Team (ACT). Cool, yes? This is a book for anyone who is after a classic adventure tale, and who enjoys survival stories with extreme settings. Bringing the Boy Home won the 2005 Ursula Nordstrom Fiction Contest, introducing us to a writer to watch. Thursday, September 18, 2008 John Kessel begins the remix--a short story playlist read more There was a time when short stories were the best thing going in fiction. Well-honed, beautifully crafted stories that pulsed with mystery or adventure, or hinted at fantastic worlds and future possibilities were the mainstay of fiction. But that all happened sometime long before I was born, because when I was in school, searching around for something to read in bookstores and libraries, the only short stories I found were boring. As in, nothing happened. And stories that might have been interesting were eviscerated and served raw, guts flailing all about, by my mediocre English teachers in class. The good news is, short stories are back. For the past fifteen years or more, incredible short stories in which plot is as valued as tone have made a resurgence. The big problem, though, with so many good stories out there, is “how to begin?” It’s like with music: you don’t want to go out and slog through an entire catalog of albums put out by every band you’ve recently heard of. Instead, you download or hunt down a song here or a song there. Or, even better, a friend hands you a CD mix with the best new sounds they’ve discovered. All this came to mind as I read several collections of short stories this summer, most notably The Baum Plan for Financial Independence, by John Kessel. I’d like to paint a brief picture of the collection, but then what I really want to spend time doing is creating the most awesome story mix ever! John Kessel is a gifted, brilliant writer whether he’s creating his own worlds or playing in the worlds of others. And while his award winning cycle of stories called "The Lunar Quartet" is in this collection, I find myself most drawn to his inventive explorations of fictions we thought we’d left behind, whether it’s two criminals stumbling into Oz, with all its possibilities of wealth and freedom, or the relentless, unforgiving promise of redemption in a sequel of sorts to Flannery O’Connor’s A Good Man is Hard to Find, or even the bizarre confluence of Doctor Frankenstein and Mary Bennett in a “but of course!” story called Pride and Prometheus. The Baum Plan for Financial Independence and Other Stories is published by Small Beer Press, a fantastic printing house run by Kelly Link and Gavin Grant. One of the best things SBP has done for the world, however, is publish the stories of Kelly Link herself. She is an amazing short story writer, rightfully compared to the likes of Kafka and Borges. Her magical stories have appeared in possibly every great collection of short stories published in the last ten years. The good news is, many of her best stories will now be available in a widely distributed collection marketed toward young adults, titled Pretty Monsters, after the only original-to-this-volume story included. Thus, we come to my Short Story Mix CD, which begins with my favorite Kessel and Link stories: Catskin, by Kelly Link (story excerpt and audio recording)- This is my favorite Kelly Link story, maybe because it was the first I ever read. Originally published in the first Michael Chabon edited issue of McSweeney’s, it shares space with lots of great stories. A Good Man is Hard to Find, by Flannery O’Connor (full text)- The classic, which is awesome, especially because it leads into: Every Angel is Terrifying, by John Kessel (audio recording)- See above for why this is so great. Let the Dead Bury Their Dead, by Randall Kenan — This story saved me from a life of loathing reading. I was in the middle of grad school and felt like my classes were sucking the life out of my love of stories. This story, from the excellent collection by the same name, blew me away and brought me home again. Speckled Trout, by Ron Rash— I love southern tales, and this one, about the brutal realities of the rural south, kicks ass. From Rash’s collection Chemistry and Other Stories. Ron Rash can best be understood by saying aloud the title of his collection of short stories: The Night the New Jesus Fell to Earth and Other Stories from Cliffside, North Carolina. You can't beat that with a stick. Poachers, by Tom Franklin—Where Rash deals with a south caught in the struggles of a reality it almost cannot understand, Franklin crawls around in the soil of the South’s mythologies, real and imagined. This is long-novella length-but worth every word. Especially if you like taut, suspenseful tales of vengeance. You can find this in a number of anthologies, but if you find it in the collection by the same name, you can read his introductory piece, which is as fine a bit of nonfiction about hunting, fathers, growing up, and the south as you're ever likely to find. The Cask of Amontillado, by Edgar Allen Poe (full text here, among other places)- Speaking of southern writers telling tales of vengeance, this is the classic example. Poe can be good and bad. When he’s bad, he’s really bad. But when he’s good, oh it’s sweet, like a fine wine. Anda’s Game, by Cory Doctorow (full text)– On one hand, this near-future SF tale is a kick-ass tale of a girl surpassing every task set before her, much to the chagrin of those who thought they could control her. On the other, a brilliant lesson in global economics as taught by 12 year olds. The Sloan Men, by David P. Nickles (full text and audio)- Awesome, creepy tale that plays with our expectations of horror, especially Lovecraftian, otherworldly, soul-sucking horror and how little it compares to the true horrors of the human heart. The Wilds, by Julia Elliot— This is only available in the recent Fantastic Women issue of Tin House, but it is not to be missed. Elliot demonstrates why you don’t need a fantasy setting or a horror tale to show that teenage desire is magical and terrifying. The Big Rock Candy Mountains, by Andy Duncan— Another one a little tough to track down. I think this has only been printed in the journal Conjunctions 39th issue, called “The New Wave Fabulists.” If the story weren’t so unique, it’d be a clarion call for hobopunk science fiction. A classic "watch what you wish for” tale. The Comet, by W.E.B. duBois (excerpt) Yes, this is a strange outlier. I recently picked up the first volume of the SF/Fantasy/Speculative Fiction collection Dark Matter, edited by Sheree Thomas, which explores the rich history of black SF writing over the past century. I was so surprised to see a story by Du Bois here, that I couldn’t help but read it. An excellent demonstration of what I said when I started: there was a time when well-honed, beautifully crafted stories that pulsed with mystery, adventure, fantastic worlds and future possibilities. But I hope you see from these stories (and others as you might encounter as you search these out) that the time to which I refer just may be now. Edited to add a picture and this note: feel free to argue other authors and stories--like any mix, this is just what's striking me right now. I couldn't find space for Margo Lanagan, and how do I get folks to find The Voluntary State, one of my favorites by good friend Christopher Rowe? (Ah, the old Sci Fiction website, what a great place you were...) Tuesday, September 16, 2008 Interview with Harry Markov read more I first talked to Harry Markov--a 19-year-old college student from Varna, Bulgaria--about a year ago on a web forum dedicated to fantasy writing and writers. I’ve never met him face-to-face, but every email makes it feel like he’s in the room with me. Bright, opinionated, and almost impossibly energetic, he has the sort of personality no mere internet can hope to contain. Harry has a total inability to sit on the sidelines. After reading his first urban fantasy novel a couple years ago, he started writing his own. Instead of reading book reviews, he started his own website, The Temple Library, to do his own reviews and author interviews. And when he couldn’t find a local community that shared his love of literature, myth, and fantasy, he got to work helping build one on-line. Every time I hear from him, Harry’s always elbow-deep in some new project. Earlier this month, I talked to him to see what he’s up to now. Kristopher Reisz: So did you grow up in Varna or recently move there for college? And what’s your major? Harry Markov: I was born and bred in Varna. Bulgaria’s a small country and I have had the fortune of being raised in its most beautiful and clean city. The architecture is amazing and there are so many spots in the summer that can give you ideas to write or the angles to take the perfect photo. As of this year I will be a college man in the University of Economics in Varna, the weirdest choice, because all year long I was planning to study in either Denmark or Holland. In the end due to financial issues in my family I settled in for studying in the same city. Not exactly exciting, but at least good enough for me to write and try for the next level in the publishing business. My bachelor is in international relationships of economics and it offers a lot of diversity in master degrees and career choice. Kristopher: International economics is a very practical choice for somebody with such artistic leanings. Are you taking any literature courses or ever consider a liberal arts major? Harry: The first answer would be no. Writing can never be taught. You can teach elements like proper grammar and stylistic rules like omission of repetition, refining sentence structure and learn new words and terms in literature. The best thing would be to analyze other works from the genre you would try to write. But if you don’t have the storyteller spark inside, it’s pretty much pointless and it’s time consuming, costs money and the results are vague. I have motivation issues, when it comes to writing and if writing is transported into a classroom atmosphere or the likes with a schedule and assignments, I’d pretty much leave it for several years. This I realized recently though. When I was 17 I wanted to move to the US into an arts college somewhere in the middle states and learn how to be a writer and when I graduate a nice publishing house would take me on we would be best friends forever. Reading several author blogs the next year told me that a solid day job is a must and that publishing is a slow process. So I scratched that thought and economics it was. People deal with disappointment all their lives and if by 18 you haven’t realized that life usually laughs out loud on the floor at your plans, you are screwed. I caught on that to make something out of my dreams I needed a solid back up plan, before I get burned. Kristopher: Let's talk about Temple Library. How did it come about? You also have a personal blog and write posts for Urban Fantasy Land. Do you want to say anything about those projects? Harry: Temple Library Reviews developed more like a whim, which stuck around, on the basis: I see, I like, I think I can do this. I was already comfortable with blogging with [my personal blog] Writing Chaos that is Me. There is nothing more to tell about it. If you ever want to read about how many topics a person can whine or squeak, then hop on board. Finding the crowd interested in literature and writing, offered new sites and links to click, so in time I discovered a new community. One doing reviews and seeing how they got free books in exchange for reviews, Before Temple Library Reviews I have done only three reviews in my life and they were for Fantasy and Sci-fi Lovin’ Book Reviews. I still contribute there, although sometimes I forget I have to cross post reviews we don’t match. But I do read it frequently, just forget to cross post. Bad memory. Theresa is an amazing person and hooked me up with the first titles to review, even though it wasn’t the perfect match. It is important to have some titles before hand starting a review blog, if you are doing it solo. For me there is another challenge. There are not many publishers willing to send books overseas. Urban Fantasy Land is the most recent addition to my blog madness. I am definitely happy that the amazing Lindsey and Lisa welcomed me with open arms and now put up with my silence due to brain exhaustion. When my day job is resolved with I hope to have more time to scavenge the internet for the tidbits, those gals usually post on their blog. Sounds interesting, but it’s a great time investment and with writing and other responsibilities, it’s all about priorities. Kristopher: What's your favorite types of books to read and/or review? Harry: When it comes to novels I have no definite taste. Every genre is as good as another. Recently literary fiction and the classics have been pulling me. I have some books by Paulo Coehlo and Murakami I wish to read. What attracts me is an eccentric story line; characters, who are far from normal and insight into the human nature. Kristopher: You've also mentioned a novel you're working on. How’s that going? Harry: You really don’t want me to start explaining about my project. I can go on and on and on about it. The genre is urban fantasy and the title is Forged in Blood. It’s a part of a trilogy actually; The Crimson Chronicles. I couldn’t do a proper hero for this story, so I changed it to a heroine, who is a demon human hybrid, has addictions to various pills and suffers from schizophrenia. Her main power is her affinity to using Blood Magic; both rare and not well looked upon discipline. The novel itself is 95% finished and by the 31st will be wrapped up in a first draft. I will have one hell of a time editing, since in the US, where I most likely will try to get publish views explicit behavior by 18 year olds as illegal. September I will outline the second novel and a new more devious and daring project Car Crash Dummy. My writing schedule is ludicrous. Kristopher: What's the first urban fantasy you read, and what attracts you to the genre? Can you name some of you favorites and why you like them? Harry: Urban fantasy has been a special treat ever since I was a child and they aired cartoons about magic in the big city and the likes. X-Men, although super heroes, are for me one aspect of the UF genre. When it comes to novels, I read my first early 2008. It was Stray by Rachel Vincent and since then I was introduced to the whole scene in literature. Needless to say I was amazed that I could miss something as big. Favorites? Mhm. I haven’t read as much as I would have liked to, so let’s see. Rachel Vincent for her originally portrayed Pride interactions modified for human shapeshifters. Karen Chance for the excess in mythology used in her books and the action conjured with it. Finally Vicki Pettersson for her mind staggering world building skills in creating a story, characters and powers so new it’s frightening. In UF titles I seek titles that can offer originality, creativity, world building and magic. Kristopher: Beyond urban fantasy, anything else you think people should read? Harry: I don’t think anyone should read anything just because somebody else says it’s good and that you necessarily have to. This is the system of literature in school and I haven’t been left with very pleasant notions or memories from the books I should have read. However if we are to talk what from my point of view what would improve someone’s grasp over literature and widen their horizons, that’s quite different. My emphasis for anyone would be to go back to the classics, world classics, their own countries’ classics. My favorites so far have turned out to be the British novels from the Victorian era and some Italian works. But I am always willing to read Russian, French, German, Japanese works. Back in the day, when cultures functioned in their own border lands and there was no easy access to one another, the classics recorded their respectful national identity. Back then there were no “save the world from ____ (insert your choice)” and definitely no hand to hand combat or anything, what we see in thrillers, horror, action books, fantasy. Characters and their worlds were the driving force. From writer perspective this is a great start to learn about characterization and human relationships. Modern literary fiction, which in my little head is the offspring of the classics, shows the human psyche in the modern era, where human interaction exists in so many forms and still manages to be fractured. Humans have never been easier to shatter than they were in history, because everything was simple. Now with psychology so many psychological disturbances have been discovered. Everyone has one or another problem with himself on a personal level and to explore these dimensions through someone else’s world is breathtaking. You can reflect on oneself and get some writing tips as well. So to stop rambling I would have to say that diversity is everything. You should never let yourself get stuck in a rut. Read everything, be it thrillers, romance, erotica, textbooks, nonfiction, essays, poetry, mystery… etc etc etc. Kristopher: What's the Bulgarian fantasy/ sci-fi community like? Is there a book, comic, or anything that's big in Bulgaria that we might have missed over here? Harry: Demographically speaking we have a 7 million nation. 35% from those 7 million are in their late teens and early twenties. From these people I haven’t met many that share the same interests as me. The fantasy community here is small and undeveloped, since most are scattered across the country. I never found the necessity to find a community in Bulgaria, so I am a bit in the dark. You couldn’t have missed anything, since we don’t have a native market. Everything is translated from West and East and sold here as well. The only novels you could have missed are some Russian novels, but I don’t follow that scene much. Kristopher: So do you have anything else in the works that I don’t know about? Harry: Writing wise I’m at the beginning of a poetry book. People say I am good at it on a certain website for poetry and those are talented people. So I decided to do a lengthy collection of poems viewing myths and tropes through a more abstract aesthetic point of view. I am also saving money for a professional camera. The prices have dropped recently for a functional semi-professional and professional cameras and the photographer in me definitely wants one. And finally with an artist friend of mine I am working on a short webcomic based on a novella I still have to write and publish 2008 with my electronic publisher Mystic Moon Press. But right now the whole project is on hiatus. Kristopher: With all of that and school and a day job, how do you ever get any sleep? Harry: Who says I do everything at one time? My day job was only for the summer. September is my vacation month. October is school and I tend to put some projects on hiatus, while I work on something else and then move back to the previous ones. It has to do with me easily getting bored. I need a lot of pit stops along the way. That is why my novel wasn’t completed by May. I am a lazy bum. If I never get my 8 hours I am incapable of anything. (Cross-posted at Kristopher's blog.) Higher Learning #4 read more Welcome to the September Higher Learning column! In Higher Learning, College Guys talk about what they're reading, what they read in high school, and what books are important to them now. Now that the semester has begun, I was able to meet with my interview subject in person. Joey is a second year student at Grinnell and plans to be an English major. Joey went to small religious high school in Tennessee before entering Grinnell College in 2007. He's interested in writing, literature, and Classics. Thanks for talking to Guys Lit Wire, Joey! Kelly Herold: What are you reading at this very moment? Joey: Other than reading for classes, I'm reading The Reluctant Fundamentalist, by Mohsin Hamid. My mom sent it to me because she thought I'd like it. Kelly: Is The Reluctant Fundamentalist typical of the books you like to read? Joey: Yes, it is. I like books that deal with political situations and with religion, but in fiction. I prefer fiction to Non Fiction. Kelly: Okay, let's go back to Middle School. What were you reading in, say, sixth or seventh grade? Joey: Well, I started reading Harry Potter in fifth grade, so I was reading that a lot. In sixth grade, I read His Dark Materials. In Middle School, sometime in the eighth grade, I started reading Stephen King. It seemed more rebellious to carry a King book around with you. (Kelly: I'm with you, Joey. King was my YA too.) Kelly: What was the first life-changing book you read? A book that made you think 'Wow' for the first time when reading? Joey: Definitely 1984. And I didn't read it until I was a Junior in High School. I mean, I'd always loved reading, but 1984 really wowed me with how far-reaching Orwell's messages are. Kelly: What about High School? What did you read for school and what did you think about required reading? Joey: Greek tragedies, Shakespeare, especially early on. We also read Lord of the Flies during my sophomore year (a choice my teacher gets questions about every year). During the last two years of High School, we read plays (The Glass Menagerie, A Street Car Named Desire), Wuthering Heights, The Scarlett Letter, The Awakening. We also read some Poe now and then, which I really liked because I was into Stephen King. I liked most of the books we read. Except for one: The Age of Innocence. I didn't like the social politics in that one. (Kelly: At this point, Joey and I had a discussion about how amazing his high school English teacher is. Look at those choices!) Kelly: Did you do much reading for fun when you were in high school? What did "reading for fun" mean to you? Joey: I looked for classic novels. It was fun to carry a book around that you were supposed to read. And I did read them! And liked them. I read Steinbeck (East of Eden remains a model for me when I'm writing short stories) and Hemingway. I really liked the Nick Adams stories and The Old Man and the Sea. I read Ayn Rand--The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. I read James Joyce. We read parts of Ulysses in class, but I read A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man on my own. I also read some Non Fiction. I carried around End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the End of Reason (Sam Harris) for a long time and would read and reread parts from it that impressed me. Kelly: You read a lot of serious literature. What do you read for fun--when at the beach, for example? Joey: I still like Stephen King. Sometimes I'll return to Garth Nix or Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea series. I also have been reading Virginia Woolf, especially over the summer. Reading her short stories was fun. I also read To the Lighthouse over the summer. I had a really boring job, the night shift in a video store. Sometimes I wouldn't see a customer for three or four hours. Kelly: Okay, last question: Young Adult literature--ever heard of it? What is Young Adult literature? Joey: Our library had a Young Adult section. That's where I found His Dark Materials, for example, and Sabriel, and the Lost Years of Merlin series. But then I moved on to Steinbeck and King. Unexpected plants read more I fell madly in love with A Field Guide to Surreal Botany and write all about it over at Chasing Ray. Check it out if you have an interest in plants of a fantastical kind described by authors who are smart and funny at the same time, and in all the right ways. This is wildly unique writing folks - don't miss it. Monday, September 15, 2008 Are You Ready for some Football? read more Fall means football. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, my attention turns to the gridiron. Watching football has its many pleasures, but the season is short. Quite often, I need more football to feast upon when a game is days or months away. It’s at these times that I usually turn to sportswriters, bloggers, and screenwriters. Newspapers are still publishing sports journalism, but it’s sometimes infuriating to read. Sports bloggers tend to focus on sports personalities rather than the game itself. Football on the screen varies from bad to worse. (I know of two exceptions, which are noted below). On a rare occasion, you can find a good football book. Novelists and non-fiction writers are more often drawn to baseball and golf. I don’t know why that is. Perhaps the pace of the game itself allows a viewer to get down a page or two between pitches or putts. Nevertheless, here are my three favorite football books. Friday Night Lights: Some people have seen the movie, and many more have seen the excellent NBC drama by the same title. Did you know that both the movie and the television show are based on the non-fiction book Friday Night Lights by Pulitzer Prize-winning author H. G. Bissinger? The book is about a small town in west Texas that loves its high school football team, the Permian Panthers. Actually, love is not a strong enough word. Devotion is more like it. That kind of devotion leads to some negative consequences. The scene that Bissinger portrays is breathtaking. For what it’s worth, the television show on NBC is excellent (especially the first season). Though it doesn’t come close to the exquisite detail in the book.: Gale Sayers and Brian Piccolo played well before my time. Sure, I’ve seen game footage from those years, but I grew up watching number 34, Sweetness himself, Walter Payton. I loved Payton for his ability to lift the entire team on his shoulders, his ballet-like moves to evade defenders, and his powerful determination to never go out of bounds. Payton held for some time the NFL record for most yards rushing. Many, myself included, consider him the greatest to ever play the game. If you have any desire to play the game of football, you must learn about Walter Payton. His motto, “Never die easy,” meant that he didn’t give up when things got tough. In 1999, Payton learned that he was dying of a rare liver disease. In his autobiography (published after his death) Payton relates how he tried to never give up when facing challenges in life, and when he faced his most difficult obstacle--this disease--he struggled with how to approach it. Never Die Easy is a moving portrait of a man who was truly inspiring. In a time when our sports culture is lacking in men to look to for inspiration, it’s good to remember that some, like Payton, truly earned the privilege of being called a hero. The "Jackie Robinson of auto racing" From the latest issue of Booklist, here's a review of a truly amazing sounding book (and story): "Wendell Scott had a background similar to many of his contemporaries in the stock-car racing circuit of the early 1950s: an impoverished childhood; a rebellious streak; an aversion to mill, mine, or farm work; an affinity for cars; and some experience as a moonshine driver. Biggest difference? Scott was black. Jackie Robinson broke baseball’s color line in a liberal northern city with the backing of the formidable Branch Rickey. Scott was virtually alone and competed throughout the South in a climate of often-dangerous bigotry. He weathered epithets from fans, competitors who would slam his car into the wall, and promoters who refused to pay him his winnings. But his biggest hurdle may have been his lack of sponsorship money for most of the two decades he drove on the circuit. When he retired, in the early 1970s, he had not collected any six-figure purses or million-dollar endorsement deals, but he had earned the respect of his peers and even NASCAR fans, who, some say, made Scott second in popularity to Richard Petty. Donovan, a two-time Pulitzer winner and amateur race-car driver, interviewed Scott extensively over the last 14 months of his life. He also interviewed more than 200 other individuals, including Scott’s widow and children. The result is the gripping story of a fascinating, brave man who deserves serious recognition for his solitary accomplishment. Proving the Pulitzer selectors knew what they were doing, Donovan has produced one of the most compelling sports biographies of this or any year. A must-read for NASCAR fans." Hard Driving, by Brian Donovan, is available now. read more Saturday, September 13, 2008 The Grey Areas of History This review has also been cross-posted at Readers' Rants. . read more Friday, September 12, 2008 Extravanganza! read more Some comics are like weekly TV dramas, some are like fast-paced action movies, and surely some are like that sitcom that makes it only a week or two before it’s pulled from the schedule forever. But every now and then a comic comes along that’s like a massive summer blockbuster blowout action extravaganza. JLA: The Deluxe Edition (by Morrison and Porter) is that comic book. These stories, from about ten years ago, were writer Grant Morrison’s first foray into mainstream super-hero comics. He’s since become something of a super-star in that arena, but back then had just come from very off-kilter books with a very alternative sensibility like Doom Patrol. So what he did, see, was take this slightly deeper way of looking at familiar situations and marry it to big-scale, heroic story-telling. So you’ve got your incredible action set-ups: a race of alien beings with powers as vast as Superman come to Earth and appear to have our best interests at heart, but slowly they turn the entire human race first against its heroes and then against itself; a war in heaven, between armies of warrior-angels spills over into Earth; a mastermind captures the League and traps them in a mindscape of their own making and the only one left to take him down is Green Arrow and his dinky little trick arrows. You’ve got all that, but suddenly, characters who seemed like they were cardboard cutouts are guys who you understand. What is it actually like to use a ring that can make anything you think of, but it uses your actual willpower as fuel? How does a mere human like Batman find a way to defeat a room full of enemies at the same power level as Superman? What is it about Superman that makes him the inspiration he is, and what kind of price does it exact? Morrison packs so many fresh ideas and subtle character moments between the action pay-offs that even second-rate characters like Aquaman (ugh!) seem like the sort of guy you’d want by your side if you ever had to take on a shape-shifting monster with super-strength. And if you like it, hang on, because they’ll eventually reprint the rest of Morrison’s JLA run and it just gets better and better. Meanwhile, there’s William Shakespeare. Don’t know where you stand with old Bill , but chances are you’re okay with Manga. A non-sequitur? No, as it turns out. Manga Shakespeare’s been adapting his plays for a while now with mixed success. Not all of the plays work so well in that format and they’re not all ideal for being updated with futuristic empires and chrome and plastic headgear. Turns out, though, that my favorite of his tragedies does. Julius Caesar (by Mustashrik with a hand from Shakespeare himself) is about an emperor who might be making a play for more power than he should have and the cabal that forms to assassinate him. But they need an inside man and that’s where Emperor Caesar’s right hand man and best friend Brutus comes in. But killing Caesar isn’t the end by a long shot. The fallout leads to all-out war and, since it’s a tragedy, you can pretty much guess what kind of ending you’regoing to get. The story is intense, but it’s the art by newcomer Mustashrik that really makes this one work in this format. His dark lines create a moody depth and bring out the emotions of guilt and anger in a potent way. The assassination scene, without being horribly graphic, is a particularly powerful and grueling example of the artist’s mastery of this form. So, as summer ends, maybe you can take advantage of one last summer blockbuster, and as school starts, you can pick up something educational. Hey, I’m here to help.

Main navigation | Main content Go to the U of M home page OneStop myU Search U of M Web sites College of Science and Engineering » SCIENTIFIC RESOURCES » Volumes SCIENTIFIC RESOURCES Videos » Talk Materials » Volumes » Preprints » Abstracts and Talk Materials Analysis and Computation of Incompressible Fluid Flow February 22 - 26, 2010 Yuri A. Antipov (Louisiana State University) Supercavitating flow in multiply connected domains December 31, 1969 Mathematical models of cavitation in fluids and quick and accurate numerical predictions are essential at different stages in the design process and the evaluation of performance and cavitation patterns. A question of particular interest is how to extend the traditional hodograph method used for simply connected flows to more complicated cavitation models. These models are nonlinear and include flows in multiply connected Riemann surfaces. We present two approaches for the construction of a conformal map from a canonical parametric domain into an n-connected Riemann surface of supercavitating flow. The first approach works when n is not greater than 3, and the canonical domain is the exterior of n slits along the real axis. The map is given by quadratures and expressed through the solutions of two Riemann-Hilbert problems on a symmetric hyperelliptic Riemann surface. The second method is applicable for any n, and the parametric domain is the exterior of n circles. To reconstruct the map, it is required to solve two Riemann-Hilbert problems for piece-wise meromorphic, G-automorphic functions (G is a Schottky group). This method leads to a series-form solution and does not need the solution to a Jacobi inversion problem (for the first method, it cannot be bypassed). Joel D. Avrin (University of North Carolina) The spectrally-hyperviscous Navier-Stokes equations December 31, 1969 Poster(pdf) We regularize the 3-D Navier-Stokes equations with hyperviscosity of degree alpha, but applied only to the high wavenumbers past a cutoff m; for now we are on a periodic box. Attractor estimates stay within the Landau-Lifschitz degrees-of-freedom estimates even for very large m. An inertial manifold exists for m large enough whenever alpha is at or above 3/2. Galerkin-convergence and inviscid-limit results are optimized for the high wavenumbers; the latter case is defined to mean that nu goes to zero while the spectral hyperviscous term stays fixed. Computational studies over many runs produce parameter choices that facilitate close-to-parallel agreement (over a good-sized portion of the inertial range) with the Kolmogorov energy-spectrum power law for high (up to 10 7 ) Reynolds numbers. J. Thomas Beale (Duke University) Numerical methods for interfaces and regularizing effects in difference equations February 25, 2010 Slides(pdf) Video(flv) Keywords: Navier-Stokes flow, Stokes flow, boundary integral, stiff equations, fractional stepping, immersed interface, immersed boundary, semigroups of operators, finite difference methods, parabolic equations, diffusion, regularity, stability, L-stable, A-stable, maximum norm Abstract: We will discuss two related projects. Work with A. Layton has the goal of designing a second-order accurate numerical method for viscous fluid flow with a moving elastic interface with zero thickness, the original problem for which Peskin introduced the immersed boundary method. We will discuss some of the background for such numerical methods. In our approach, we decompose the velocity in the Navier-Stokes equations at each time into a part determined by the (equilibrium) Stokes equations, with the interfacial force, and a "regular" remainder which can be calculated without special treatment at the interface. For the "Stokes" part we use the immersed interface method or boundary integrals; for the regular part we use the semi-Lagrangian method to advance in time. Simple test problems indicate second-order accuracy despite a first-order truncation error near the interface, as has come to be expected with certain interfacial methods. We will describe analytical results which partially justify this expectation. For a fully discrete parabolic equation, we have proved a regularizing effect: If we solve a nonhomogeneous heat equation with a finite difference method, with L-stable temporal discretization, using large time steps, then the solution and its first differences are bounded uniformly by the maximum of the nonhomogeneity, and the second differences are almost bounded. The proof uses the point of view of analytic semigroups of operators. Animikh Biswas (University of North Carolina) Spatial analyticity for the Navier-Stokes equations December 31, 1969 Joint work with C. Foias. We augment the (3d) Navier-Stokes system with an equation governing the space analyticity radius of the solutions and identify a suitable domain where this equation is well-posed. This allows us to study the maximal analyticity radius of the (regular) solutions. We also obtain certain estimates of the analyticity radius of the solution on the entire regularity interval. Diego Córdoba (Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (CSIC)) Active scalars convected by 2D incompressible non-local flow February 23, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: Darcy´s law, surface quasi-geostrophic equation. Abstract: Recent work with collaborators has been focused on understanding the different features regarding well-posedness and regularity issues of the incompressible porous media and the surface quasi-geostrophic equation. In this talk we will discuss solutions with infinite energy and contour dynamics of patches. Alessio Figalli (University of Texas, Austin) Variational models for incompressible Euler equations February 23, 2010 Slides(pdf) Video(flv) Keywords: Incompressible Euler equations, Arnold distance, Relaxation Abstract: According to Arnold's interpretation, the Euler equations for incompressible fluids can be seen as a geodesic equation in the space of measure preserving diffeomorphism. Hence, one can look for solutions by minimizing the geodesic action functional with fixed endpoints. Since this problem is in general ill-posed, Brenier introduced at the end of the 80's a relaxed version of Arnold's approach. The aim of the talk is to describe some recent results on this problem. Tobias Grafke (Ruhr-Universität Bochum) High resolution simulations of the incompressible 3-D Euler equations: A lagrangian perspective December 31, 1969 Poster(pdf) Reacting to various new forms of lagrangian and local geometric criteria for finite time blowup of the three-dimensional incompressible Euler equations (J. Deng, T. Hou and X. Yu (2005), P. Constantin (2001)) numerical simulations are carried out. High resolution is achieved by utilizing an adaptive mesh refinement technique. Lagrangian tracer particles are injected into the flow to analyze the evolution of both vortex lines and the inverse flowmap. Preliminary results regarding relevant blowup criteria are presented. Thomas Y. Hou (California Institute of Technology) On the singularity formation of a 3D model for Incompressible Euler and Navier-Stokes equations February 22, 2010 Slides(pdf) Video(flv) Keywords: 3D incompressible Navier-Stokes equations, finite time blow-up, and global regularity, and stabilizing effect of convection. Abstract: We study the singularity formation of a recntly proposed 3D model for the incompressible Euler and Navier-Stokes equations. This 3D model is derived from the axisymmetric Navier-Stokes equations with swirl using a set of new variables. The model preserves almost all the properties of the full 3D Euler or Navier-Stokes equations except for the convection term which is neglected. If we add the convection term back to our model, we would recover the full Navier-Stokes equations. We will present numerical evidence which supports that the 3D model may. Finally, we prove rigorously that the 3D model develops finite time singularities for a large class of initial data with finite energy and appropriate bounadry conditions. This work may shed interesting light into the stabilizing effect of convection for 3D incompressible Euler and Navier-Stokes equations. Gautam Iyer (Carnegie-Mellon University) Stochastic Lagrangian particle systems for the Navier-Stokes and Burgers equations February 25, 2010 Video(flv) Slides(pdf) Keywords: Navier Stokes, stochastic-Lagrangian, particle method. Abstract: in finite time, and solutions can not be continued past these shocks using classical methods. I will describe a resetting procedure by which these shocks can (surprisingly!) be avoided, and thus obtain convergence to the viscous Burgers equations on long time intervals. Robert M. Kerr (University of Warwick) The role of circulation in the collapse of ideal fluids February 22, 2010 Video(flv) Video (continued)(flv) Slides(pdf) Keywords: Euler equations, quantum fluids Abstract: Circulation is an often neglected conservation law in developing the mathematics of ideal fluids, meaning the classical 3D Euler equations and the quantum defocussing Gross-Pitaevskii equations. Recent Euler calculations demonstrated that the numerics must conserve circulation and when this is satisfied, it appears that circulation controls the growth of enstrophy in a manner consistent with a finite-time singularity of these equations. In a quantum fluid the circulation, that is defects in phase, is inherently conserved. These equations allow reconnection without dissipation and without singularities. Nonetheless, when compared with Navier-Stokes reconnection there are strong similarities, at least for a new Navier-Stokes initial condition which considers the role of circulation more carefully. Following reconnection in GP, waves form on vortex lines, vortex rings detach, and an inertial subrange develops, all in a manner that could explain experimental observations of the decay of vortex line length, a proxy for kinetic energy, despite the absence of viscosity. Robert M. Kerr (University of Warwick) Dynamical constraints for 3D Euler and possible blow-up December 31, 1969 Co-author Miguel D. Bustamante (UCD Dublin). While characterization of singular behaviour of simulations of the Euler equations using the localized spatio-temporal growth of the vorticity modulus would be preferred, because numerical simulations are discrete, this approach cannot reliably follow its position and value at times and positions very close to the potential singularity. With this paradigm in mind, the natural alternative is methods that identify possible singular evolution in terms of global quantities determined over suitably-defined areas and volumes of the dynamical system. This poster presents methods based on the conservation of integrals defined on symmetry planes of a commonly used class of initial conditions. These are: (i) strong tools designed to validate any numerical simulation, irrespective of the conclusions on the potentially singular behaviour, and (ii) sharp inequalities and exact results to estimate more precisely the vorticity growth exponents in a blow-up scenario. Ondřej Kreml (Charles University in Prague) Steady flow of the second grade fluid past an obstacle December 31, 1969 Poster(pdf) This is a joint work with Pawel Konieczny. We study the steady flow of a second grade fluid past an obstacle in 3D. Arising equations can be split into a transport equation and an Oseen equation for the velocity. We use the theory of fundamental solutions to the Oseen equation in weighted Lebesgue spaces together with results of Herbert Koch to prove the existence of a wake region behind the obstacle, i.e. a region where the solution decays slower to the prescribed velocity at infinity. Igor Kukavica (University of Southern California) On the partial regularity for solutions of the Navier-Stokes system February 25, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: Navier-Stokes equations, partial regularity, Hausdorff dimension, fractal dimension. Abstract: A classical result of Caffarelli, Kohn, and Nirenberg states that the one dimensional Hausdorff measure of singularities of a suitable weak solution of the Navier-Stokes system is zero. We present a short proof of the partial regularity result which allows the force to belong to a singular Morrey space. We also provide a new upper bound for the fractal dimension of the singular set. Zhiwu Lin (Georgia Institute of Technology) Two puzzles about Couette flows: Sommerfeld paradox and nonlinear inviscid damping February 24, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: Couette flow, Sommerfeld paradox, inviscid damping Abstract: Couette flows are shear flows with a linear velocity profile. First, They are known to be linearly stable for any Reynolds number, but become turbulent for large Reynolds numbers (Sommerfeld, 1908). With Charles Y. Li, we proposed an explanation of this paradox by constructing unstable shear flows arbitrarily close to Couette flows, for both inviscid and slightly viscous cases. Such unstable shears are possible seeds for the turbulent behaviors near Couette flows, as also supported by numerical work. Second, starting from the work of Orr in 1907, the vertical velocity of the linearized Euler equations at Couette flows is known to decay in time. Such inviscid damping is open in the nonlinear level. With Chongchun Zeng, we constructed non-parallel steady flows arbitrarily near Couette flows in H 1 norm of vorticity. Therefore, the nonlinear inviscid damping is not true in (vorticity) H 1 norm. Moreover, we showed that in (vorticity) H 2 neighborhood of Couette flows, the only steady structures (including traveling waves) are stable shear flows. This suggests that the long time dynamics near Couette flows in (vorticity) H 2 space might be much simpler. We also obtained similar results for the problem of nonlinear Landau damping in 1D electrostatic plasmas. Helena Nussenzveig Judith Lopes (State University of Campinas (UNICAMP)) On helical flows with little regularity: global existence and vanishing viscosity February 22, 2010 Video(flv) Slides(pdf) Keywords: Helical flow, swirl, vortex stretching, energy method, Delort type symmetrization Abstract: Helical flows are flows which are covariant with respect to translation along helices. In recent work, B. Ettinger and E. Titi established global existence and uniqueness of helical flow solutions of the incompressible 3D Euler equations with bounded vorticity and no "helical swirl" (the component of velocity along helices). In earlier work, A. Mahalov, E. Titi and S. Leibovich had established well-posedness, in H 1 , of viscous helical flows (solutions of the Navier-Stokes equations) with no restriction on helical swirl. Absence of helical swirl prevents vortex stretching, but, although a conserved quantity for Euler, it is not conserved by the Navier-Stokes evolution. In both sets of results, the fluid domain was a bounded, smooth, helical subset of R 3 . In this talk we will review these results and discuss the problem of taking the vanishing viscosity limit of helical flows with small, with respect to viscosity, helical swirl. We work with bounded domain flows, assuming Navier boundary conditions, but we discuss the full-space problem as well. Our results assume that the flow has finite enstrophy. We also discuss an alternative way to obtain global existence of helical solutions of the 3D Euler equations, without helical swirl, with vorticity only in L p , p>3/2. The collaborators involved are Anne Bronzi, Quansen Jiu, Milton Lopes Filho and Dongjuan Niu. Evelyn Manalo Lunasin (University of Michigan) Spectral scaling of the two-dimensional Navier-Stokes-α and Leray-α model of turbulence December 31, 1969 abstract(pdf) Poster(pdf) The. The statistical properties of the smoothed velocity field are expected to match those of Navier-Stokes turbulence for scales larger than α. For wavenumbers k such that kα»1, corresponding to spatial scales smaller than α, there are three candidate power laws for the energy spectrum, corresponding to three possible characteristic time scales in the model equations. The three possibilities depend on whether the time scale of an eddy of size k -1 is determined by (k|u k |) -1 , (k|v k |) -1 , or (k√ (u k , v k ) ) -1 , where u _k and v k are the components of the filtered velocity field u and unfiltered velocity field v, respectively, for wavenumber k. Determining the actual scaling requires resolved numerical simulations. We measure the scaling of the energy spectra from high-resolution simulations of the two-dimensional Navier-Stokes-α model, in the limit as α→∞. The energy spectrum of the smoothed velocity field scales as k -7 in the direct enstrophy cascade regime, consistent with the dynamics dominated by the time scale given by (k |v k |) -1 . We are thus able to deduce that the dynamics of the dominant cascading conserved quantity, namely the enstrophy of the rough velocity v, determines the power law for small scales. For the two-dimensional Leray-α model, the time scale given by (k√ (u k , v k ) ) -1 is understood to characterize the dynamics of the conserved enstrophy. Indeed, our numerical simulation of this model gives a k -5 power law in the enstrophy inertial subrange. This result supports our claim regarding the characteristic time scale of the two-dimensional NS-α model for wavenumbers kα»1. Yasunori Maekawa (Kobe University) Three dimensional stability of the Burgers vortex December 31, 1969 This is a joint work with Thierry Gallay. Burgers vortices are explicit stationary solutions of the Navier-Stokes equations which are often used to describe the vortex tubes observed in numerical simulations of three-dimensional turbulence. In this model, the velocity field is a two-dimensional perturbation of a linear straining flow with axial symmetry. The only free parameter is the Reynolds number Re = Γ/ν, where Γ is the total circulation of the vortex and ν is the kinematic viscosity. We will show that the Burgers vortex is asymptotically stable with respect to general three-dimensional perturbations, for all values of the Reynolds number. Alex Mahalov (Arizona State University) Multi-scale nesting and high performance computing simulations of limited area atmospheric environments February 24, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: 3D Navier-Stokes equations, multiscale atmospheric dynamics and turbulence, high resolution simulations. Abstract: High resolution multi-scale simulations of limited area atmospheric environments are one of the major frontiers of atmospheric sciences and environmental sustainability. The latest developments in high performance computing technologies represent an opportunity to advance and improve real time atmospheric characterization and forecasting over limited areas. Among the new capabilities required are improved physics based sub-grid parameterizations and one- or two-way nesting to integrate models of disparate scales. We present high resolution horizontally and vertically nested mesoscale/microscale simulations for effective resolution of multiscale atmospheric physics phenomena in regional atmospheres (A. Mahalov and M. Moustaoui, Journal of Computational Physics, vol. 228, p. 1294-1311, 2009). Nader Masmoudi (New York University) Existence results for some micro-macro models of polymeric flows February 24, 2010 Slides(pdf) Video(flv) Keywords: existence results, weak solutions, strong solutions, micro-macro models. Abstract: Systems coupling fluids and polymers are of great interest in many branches of applied physics, chemistry and biology. There are many models to describe them. We will present here several existence results of weak or strong solutions. In particular we will consider the FENE, the Doi and FENE-P models. Hideyuki Miura (Osaka University) On vorticity directions near singularities for the 3D Navier-Stokes flows December 31, 1969 This is a joint work with Yoshikazu Giga. We give a geometric nonblow up criterion on the direction of the vorticity for the 3D Navier-Stokes flow. We prove that under a restriction on behavior in time (type I condition) the solution does not blow up if the vorticity direction is uniformly continuous in the region where vorticity is large. Romain Nguyen van yen (École Normale Supérieure) Dissipative structures in the inviscid limit of 2D wall-bounded turbulence. Romain Nguyen van yen (École Normale Supérieure) Energy dissipation in the inviscid limit of a 2D dipole-wall collision. Monika Nitsche (University of New Mexico) On the limiting behaviour of regularizations of the Euler Equations with vortex sheet initial data February 22, 2010 Video(flv) Slides(pdf) Keywords: vortex sheet motion, vortex blob method, Euler-alpha model Abstract: The vortex sheet is a mathematical model for a shear layer in which the layer is approximated by a surface. Vortex sheet evolution has been shown to approximate the motion of shear layers well, both in the case of free layers and of separated flows at sharp edges. Generally, the evolving sheets develop singularities in finite time. To approximate the fluid past this time, the motion is regularized and the sheet defined as the limit of zero regularization. However, besides weak existence results in special cases, very little is known about this limit. In particular, it is not known whether the limit is unique or whether it depends on the regularization. I will discuss several regularizing mechanisms, including physical ones such as fluid viscosity, and purely numerical ones such as the vortex blob and the Euler-alpha methods. I will show results for a model problem and discuss some of the unanswered questions of interest. Dongjuan Niu (Capital Normal University) Axisymmetric Euler-α equations without swirl: Existence, uniqueness, and radon measure valued solutions December 31, 1969 The global existence of weak solutions for the three-dimensional axisymmetric Euler-alpha (also known as Lagrangian-averaged Euler-α) equations, without swirl, is established, whenever the initial unfiltered velocity v 0 satisfies curlv 0 /r is a finite Randon measure with compact support. Furthermore, the global existence and uniqueness, is also established in this case provided that curlv 0 /r belongs to L p c (R 3 ) with p>3/2. It is worth mention that no such results are known to be available, so far, for the three-dimensional Euler equations of ideal incompressible flows. Koji Okitani (University of Sheffield) Numerical study of sectional curvature and Jacobi field in incompressible Euler equations December 31, 1969 We study some of the key quantities arising in the Arnold's theory (1966) of the incompressible Euler equations both in two and three dimensions. The sectional curvatures for the Taylor-Green vortex and ABC flows initial conditions are calculated exactly in three dimensions. We trace the time evolution of the Jacobi fields by direct numerical simulations and, in particular, see how the sectional curvatures get more and more negative in time. The spatial structure of the the Jacobi fields is compared expression (1984) for the sectional curvature (in physical space), the origin of negative curvature is investigated. It is found that a 'potential' $alpha_{bm{xi}}$ appearing in the definition of covariant time derivative plays an important role, in that a rapid growth in its gradient makes a major contribution to the negative curvature. Koji Okitani (University of Sheffield) Nonlocal Burgers equations and generalized Hopf-Cole transforms February 23, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: maximum principle, blow-up, nonlocality Abstract: We consider nonlocal versions of Burgers equations in a preliminary attempt to 1) generalize Hopf-Cole transforms for incompressible flows, and 2) to assess the effect of nonlocality on the breakdown of maximum principle leading to blow-up. It is well-known that by the Forsyth-Florin-Hopf-Cole transform 1D Burgers equation is integrable through a Hamilton-Jacobi-like equation for the velocity potential. In higher spatial dimensions, on top of a potential component, there appears a solenoidal component. For the former, a similar method of solution works for multi-dimensional Burgers equation. To treat the latter, we recast e.g. 2D incompressible Navier-Stokes equations as a nonlocal Hamilton-Jacobi-like equation using the stream function. This form apparently exhibits nontrivial cancellations of nonlinear terms, known as nonlinearity depletion. On this basis, we propose a nonlocal model equation in 1D and study its behavior numerically. It is shown that this model is equivalent to another model equation which is known to blow up. We derive a Hopf-Cole-like transform to recast the model as close as a heat diffusion equation, but with an additional dangerous term. Attempts are made to explore possible transforms for the 2D Navier-Stokes equations. Time permitting, we may describe yet another model (joint work with M. Dowker) where a nonlocal term, mimicking the pressure, leads apparently to blow-up in finite time. Samuel Segun Okoya (Obafemi Awolowo University) Effects of variable viscosity and viscous dissipation on the disappearance of criticality of a reactive third-grade fluid in a slab December 31, 1969 Poster slides(pdf) We study the disappearance of criticality of a reactive fully developed flow of an incompressible, thermodynamically compatible fluid of grade three with viscous heating and heat generation between two horizontal flat plates, where the top is moving with uniform speed and the bottom plate is fixed in the presence of imposed pressure gradient. This is a natural continuation of earlier work on rectilinear shear flows. The governing coupled ordinary differential equations are transformed into dimensionless forms using an appropriate transformation and then solved numerically for thermal transition (disappearance of criticality) using Maple based shooting method. Attention is focused upon the disappearance of criticality of the solution set for various values of the physical parameters and the numerical computations are presented graphically to show salient features of the solution set. Natasa Pavlovic (University of Texas, Austin) The quintic NLS as the mean field limit of a Boson gas with three-body interactions February 24, 2010 Video(flv) Slides(pdf) Keywords: Gross-Pitaevskii hierarchy Abstract: In this talk we will discuss joint work with Thomas Chen on the dynamics of a boson gas with three-body interactions in dimensions d=1,2. We prove that in the limit as the particle number N tends to infinity, the BBGKY hierarchy of k-particle marginals converges to a limiting Gross-Pitaevskii (GP) hierarchy for which we prove existence and uniqueness of solutions. For factorized initial data, the solutions of the GP hierarchy are shown to be determined by solutions of a quintic nonlinear Schrodinger equation. Time permitting, we will briefly describe our new approach for studying well-posedness of the Cauchy problem for focusing and defocusing GP hierarchy. Robert Pego (Carnegie-Mellon University) Pressure boundary conditions, projection methods and finite-element computations February 25, 2010 Slides(pdf) Video(flv) Keywords: Time-dependent incompressible viscous flow, stable discretization, time splitting, Stokes pressure, Leray projection. Abstract: How to properly specify boundary conditions for pressure for no-slip incompressible viscous flow has been a longstanding issue in analysis and computation. A recent analytical resolution of this issue is based on a local well-posedness theorem for an extended Navier-Stokes dynamics, in which the zero-divergence condition is replaced by a pressure formula that involves the commutator of the Laplacian and Leray projection operators. I'll indicate progress on some related analytical questions (domains with corners, MHD), but will focus on improvements in numerical schemes that involve projection methods in time and finite elements in space. We find schemes that involve simple kinds of finite elements (Lagrange of equal order for velocity and pressure, including piecewise-linear, for example) that are stable in tests with large time steps at low Reynolds number, with up to 3rd-order accuracy in time for both velocity and pressure. Notably, these schemes do not include projection methods that update the pressure from previous steps. Stephen Carl Preston (University of Colorado) Geometric aspects of hydrodynamic blowup February 26, 2010 Video(flv) Slides(pdf) The geometric approach to hydrodynamics was developed by Arnold to study Lagrangian stability of ideal fluids. It identifies a Lagrangian fluid flow with a geodesic on the Riemannian manifold of volume-preserving diffeomorphisms. The curvature of this manifold is typically negative but sometimes positive, and positivity leads to conjugate points (where initially close geodesics spread apart and come together again). In this talk we suppose a fluid in 3 satisfies a pointwise version of the Beale-Kato-Majda criterion for blowup at a finite time T. I will describe a theorem which states that either the geodesic experiences an infinite sequence of consecutive conjugate pairs approaching the blowup time, or the deformation tensor has a fairly special form at the blowup time. The first possibility suggests that one could "see" blowup geometrically in a weak space, such as the space of L 2 measure-preserving transformations. Christian Seis (University of Toronto) Crossover in coarsenig rates in demixing binary viscous fluids December 31, 1969 We consider the demixing process of a binary mixture of two liquids after a temperature quench. In viscous liquids, the demixing is mediated by diffusion and convection. The typical particle size grows as a function of time t, a phenomenon called coarsening. Simple scaling arguments based on the assumption of statistical self-similarity of the domain morphology suggest the coarsening rate: from ∼ t 1/3 for diffusion-mediated to ∼ t for flow-mediated. In joint works with Yann Brenier, Felix Otto, and Dejan Slepcev, we derive the crossover of both scaling regimes in form of time-averaged upper bounds. The mathematical model is a Cahn-Hilliard equation with convection term, where the fluid velocity is determined by a Stokes equation. The analysis follows closely a method proposed by Kohn and Otto, which is based on the gradient flow structure of the evolution. Misha Shvartsman (University of St. Thomas) Alternate powers in radial dependencies for Serrin's swirling vortex solutions December 31, 1969 Poster(pdf) Joint work with Doug Dokken and Kurt Scholz. In this work we consider a modification of the model developed by J. Serrin where velocity, in spherical coordinates, decreases in proportion to the reciprocal of the distance from the vortex line. Serrin’s model has three distinct solutions, depending on the kinematic viscosity and the value of a “pressure” parameter. These are: down-draft core with radial outflow, downdraft core with a compensating radial inflow, and updraft core with radial inflow (single-cell vortex). Recent studies, based on radar data of selected severe weather events show that the ratio of natural log of vorticity and natural log of grid spacing have a linear relationship, suggesting a fractal-like phenomenon with a constant ratio. In two of the cases the ratio is close to 0.6. We have attempted Serrin’s approach seeking solution with the assumption that the velocity decreases in proportion to the reciprocal of the distance to the power 0.6. This ansatz leads to a substantially more complicated boundary-value problem for sixth order system of nonlinear differential equations. However, the spherical variable has not been eliminated from the right-hand side of the system That contradicts the original assumption that the velocity would be represented by ratio of a function of the angle with the vortex line to the corresponding reciprocal of the distance to the power not equal to one. We discuss some specific cases of the system and applications of a shooting method. Also dependence on the radial variable is studied as small variations in the solutions would indicate that our system is essentially independent of the parameter. Roman Shvydkoy (University of Illinois, Chicago) On stationary anomalous solutions to the Euler equations February 26, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: Energy conservation, Onsager conjecture, turbulence, Besov spaces. Abstract: In this talk we will discuss a possibility of constructing solutions to the forced stationary Euler equations with limit regularity. The problem is motivated by finding vector fields that enjoy the properties of a turbulent flow, i.e. anomalous energy dissipation, smooth forcing, and regularity 1/3 in a certain Besov norm. The time-dependent version of this problem is known as the Onsager conjecture. We will exhibit a number of conditions which rule out existence of such solutions. Those include, for instance, conditions on the singularity set. An example of a field with smoothness 1/3, but integrability 18/11, which is Onsager-supercritical will be presented. Leslie M. Smith (University of Wisconsin, Madison) New PDE reduced models for rotating stratified flows February 22, 2010 Video(flv) Slides(pdf) Keywords: Boussinesq equations, wave-vortical interactions, quasi-geostrophic approximation, intermediate models Abstract: Starting from the rotating Boussinesq equations, we show how to derive a hierarchy of new models intermediate between the quasi-geostrophic (QG) approximation and the full equations. The new PDEs progressively include more effects of inertia-gravity waves. We explain how to derive the new models in two ways: (i) by eigenmode projection, and (ii) directly in physical space. We illustrate how the new reduced PDEs can be used to identify the nonlinear interactions primarily responsible for observed non-QG phenomena, such as cyclone/anticyclone asymmetry in geophysical flows. A waves-only model gives insight into the growth of horizontal shear flows. Simulations of the models highlight the practical implications of under-resolving wave-mode interactions in numerical calculations. László Székelyhidi Jr. (Rheinische Friedrich-Wilhelms-Universität Bonn) Weak and measure-valued solutions of the Euler equations February 26, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: weak solutions, turbulence, h-principle Abstract: In 1993 V. Scheffer produced a nontrivial weak solution of the 2D incompressible Euler equations with compact support in space-time. Subsequently A.Shnirelman gave different constructions for solutions with (i) compact support in time and (ii) strictly decreasing energy. Such "wild" solutions seemingly contradict the idea of an evolution equation. In this talk we will discuss a recent approach to such constructions in joint work with Camillo De Lellis. Moreover, we show that the underlying phenomenon has a striking similarity to the h-principle, a well known phenomenon of flexibility in underdetermined geometric problems. In such situations the underlying PDE seems to represent no constraint at all, the only restrictions on the space of solutions come from topology. We look at the Euler equations in this light and show that there are indeed nontrivial restrictions arising from the initial data. Tai-Peng Tsai (University of British Columbia) Asymptotics of small exterior Navier-Stokes flows with non-decaying boundary data February 23, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: Asymptotics, Exterior flows, Navier-Stokes equations, self-similar Abstract: We prove the unique existence of solutions of the 3D incompressible Navier-Stokes equations in an exterior domain with small non-decaying boundary data, for all t ∈ R or t > 0. In the case t > 0. Noel J. Walkington (Carnegie-Mellon University) Numerical approximation of complex fluids: compactness properties and open questions February 25, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: Complex Fluids, Complactness Abstract: A classical result of P. Lax states that ``a (linear) numerical scheme converges if and only if it is stable and consist''. For nonlinear problems this statement needs to augmented to include a compactness hypotheses sufficient to guarantee convergence of the nonlinear terms. This talk will focus on the development of numerical schemes for parabolic equations that are stable and inherit compactness properties of the underlying partial differential equations. I will present a discrete analog of the classical Lions-Aubin compactness theorem and use it to establish convergence of numerical schemes for fluids transporting membranes, and the Ericksen Leslie equations for (nematic) liquid crystals. The talk will finish with some open problems that arise in the numerical simulation of this class of problems. Jiahong Wu (Oklahoma State University) The surface quasi-geostrophic equation February 25, 2010 Video(flv) Slides(pdf) Keywords: fractional Laplace, global regularity, the surface quasi-geostrophic equation Abstract:Fundamental mathematical issues concerning the surface quasi-geostrophic (SQG) equation have recently attracted the attention of many researchers and important progress has been made. This talk focuses on the existence, uniqueness and regularity of solutions to the SQG equation and covers both the inviscid and dissipative cases. We will summarize some existing work and report very recent numerical and theoretical results. Sijue Wu (University of Michigan) Wellposedness of the two and three dimensional full water wave problem February 23, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: water wave problem Abstract:. Chunjing Xie (University of Michigan) Classical solutions of 2D rotating shallow water equations December 31, 1969 Poster(pdf) We will discuss the classical solutions of two dimensional inviscid rotating shallow water equations with small initial data. The global existence and asymptotic behavior are obtained when the initial data has zero relative vorticity, where rotating shallow water system can be transformed to a symmetric quasilinear Klein-Gordon system. We also give the lower bound for the lifespan of classical solutions with general initial data. This is a joint work with Bin Cheng. Zhouping Xin (Chinese University of Hong Kong) On fluid-rigid body interaction problem December 31, 1969 We study the motion of a rigid body immersed in an incompressible ideal (or viscous) fluids. We first establish an existence of global (in time) existence of weak solution with natural far field condition for 2-dimensional Euler system. Then for viscous case, we prove that the corresponding generalized Stokes operator is the infinitesimal generator of an analytic semigroup on some appropriate spaces so that we can obtain local existence of strong solutions in such spaces. Zhouping Xin (Chinese University of Hong Kong) Zero viscosity limit for incompressible Navier-Stokes equations February 24, 2010 Video(flv) Keywords: Viscous boundary layers, Prandtl's boundary layer system, Navier-slip bounadry conditions, incompressible Navier-Stokes system. Abstract: In this talk, I will discuss some issues and recent results related to the viscous boundary layer theory. In particular, I will present a global existence result on classical soluition to the 2-dimensional unsteady Prandtl's boundary system; some convergence results on viscous solutions when the viscosity becomes small. Both non-slip and Navier-type slip boundary conditions will be studied. Xiaofeng Yang (University of South Carolina) A phase-field model and its numerical approximation for two-phase incompressible flows with different densities and viscosities December 31, 1969 Modeling and numerical approximation of two-phase incompressible flows with different densities and viscosities are considered using the diffusive phase-field model. A physically consistent phase-field model that admits an energy law is proposed, and several energy stable, efficient and accurate time discretization schemes for the coupled nonlinear phase-field model are constructed and analyzed. Ample numerical experiments are carried out to validate the correctness of these schemes and their accuracy for problems with large density and viscosity ratios.

The Curse of Foreign Aid By Juan Ramón Rallo | Posted: Wed. October 10, 2007 Student Winner. Third Prize ($1000) Index 1. Introduction 2. Wealth 2.1. What is wealth 2.2. How wealth emerges 2.3. How private property boots wealth 3. Globalization 3.1. A reinforcement of wealth creation 3.2. Common criticisms 3.3. Some empirical results 4. Poverty 4.1. Two kinds of interventionism 4.2. African case 5. Foreign aid 5.1. Food and clothes 5.2. Education 5.3. Healthcare 5.4. National industry subsidizing 5.5. Public Works 6. Conclusions 7. Bibliography .” Today's world economy is filled with contrasts. While in some regions we find people dying of starvation, in others the concern about consumption becoming too high to be sustainable is taping shape. These sharp differences have prompted some populists and ideologists to blame the rich for the misery of the poor and to ask for international redistributions of wealth. It is easier to find opulent societies guilty of having plundered underdeveloped communities than to explain why some people can prosper and other cannot. And it is also easier to simply imagine that one can improve poor peoples’ lives by removing wealth from one place and putting it elsewhere than implementing the ideas that one would have to develop after reflecting seriously. Thus if we want to analyse why some societies are poor and whether some proposals are consistent with wealth creation, we must begin to understand the underlying conditions that make this wealth possible. Therefore our essay will be organised in four sections. The first one is devoted to the definition of wealth, its foundation and its economic sources. Afterwards, we will study which are the implications of globalization on the sources of wealth. Thirdly, we will examine why its conditions are not universally fulfilled and how this fact explains poverty. And finally we will criticize foreign aid as a mean to achieve development. 2.1 What is wealth? Human being act purposely to achieve ends. A human being needs means to fill the gap between his current state of affairs and his desired state of affairs. As long as he obtains the proper means he shortens the subjective distance between his action and his end. We can thus say that an individual is richer than another if he is closer to fulfilling his ends, and this will depend on the quantity and the quality of his means. Under this perspective, wealth is the relative abundance of suitable means in relation to one’s ends. This may appear a very simple definition, but we can extract some important corollaries which distinguish it from other definitions of wealth, avoiding popular misinterpretations. First of all, wealth is directly related to individual ends. One person can be richer than another if he can satisfy better his ends even with a smaller endowment of means. This does not mean that men without ends are the richest, but that one cannot consider that the size of the wealth is equal to the size of the endowment of properties. People with hard-to-realize ends need by definition more means to achieve them and thus one should not consider necessarily this greater abundance as a sign of higher wealth. In other words, action plans should be traced by the individuals who must perform them. Obtaining the same good can represent little wealth to some and too much (too costly to be obtained) to another. Secondly, one should not only consider the direct means that satisfy the ends, but also the entire production process that enables the achievement of those direct means. Action plans are so highly complex in that they involve many productive stages. Consumption goods are just the final stage and thus all previous stages that allow individuals to produce consumption goods are also considered wealth. Therefore, capital must be included in our definition. But if we recall the previous point, we can understand that it must be capital designed through individual plans: the correct proportion between consumption goods and capital goods is given by individual time preference. Forcing capital accumulation (or capital consumption) means banning the achievement of the most valued ends and thus the destruction of wealth. Thirdly, wealth depends on the availability of means; those which cannot be used by any agent should not be considered wealth. That obviously excludes from our definition such terms as “natural wealth”, which tries to compare wealth with the abundance of natural resources. Of course, natural resources may be wealth, as far as they are needed to fulfil one individual’s ends. However, only those natural resources which are currently available are wealth. World inhabitants are not richer by the fact that planet’s core is formed by iron and nickel. We cannot still extract those minerals and that makes them useless. Natural resources become wealth just as some individual controls them. This is in fact related to our previous remark. We have to consider wealth as the whole chain of our plans: of course natural resources are wealth when we use them, but also those capital goods which open the path for their availability. A community can live on the hugest deposits of natural resources. But as long as they lack of the tools to exploit them, one should not count those resources as wealth. Until now, we have defined wealth and sketched some of its characteristics: it is a set of available means inserted in the plans of an actor to fulfil his ends. From now on we are going to analyse which are the conditions that make possible its creation and reproduction. 2.2 How wealth emerges We have already said that any material resource cannot be considered wealth unless it is available to an individual’s plan. We should distinguish between two kinds of availability: physical and legal availability. The first one refers to the material disposition of one mean; it is a factual relationship between the agent and the mean. The second one implies having ultimate decision-making powers. Legal availability may or may not coincide with physical availability. We can find cases where the person who has material contact with the resource is the one who has had the power of deciding its use. But we can also have cases where the individual who has the material disposition is not the one who has decided its destiny (for instance, a worker who follows an entrepreneurial plan may have the physical availability but as long as he follows the wishes of the entrepreneur, he lacks legal availability.) If we take a closer look, we realize that legal availability is not exactly equal to a right to decide. Insofar I want to omit any ethical analysis, I am not speaking about who should have the legal availability, but about who actually has it. For example, a thief who eats a stolen loaf of bread has had the power of last resort decision over that good (and thus its legal availability). In other words, legal availability is completely related with effectively inserting one mean in our plans (subjective side), while physical availability refers just to the material use of the resource (objective side). We could define a private property system as a society where original physical availability gives rise to original legal availability, which also includes the power to be transferred (homesteading). Furthermore, those to whom the legal availability has been transferred must retain it either until it is further transferred or until the mean is consumed and perishes (enforceable voluntary agreements). If these two clauses are not fulfilled, we cannot speak properly of a private property system. Broadly speaking, when either homesteading or enforceable voluntary agreements fail, we have a third-way system and when both principles fail a socialist one. Our definitions are probably too superficial, but they highlight two kinds of interventionism: partial and total. The first one influences the assignment of legal availability (either at the beginning or in later stages) and the second one places every single mean of a society under the power of some people who has neither homestead it nor acquired it by enforceable voluntary agreements. Because of we have stressed the role of availability in our definition of wealth, we must now raise some conclusive remarks on who will enjoy the wealth in each system: The conclusion is pretty obvious. A private property system is a prerequisite for wealth creation. Without homesteading and enforceable voluntary agreements there is no foundation for wealth, and almost every opportunity disappears or gets subjected to politicians’ desires. 2.3. How private property boots wealth Once we know that private property is a prerequisite for wealth creation, we have to explore the ways in which individuals arrive at that result in a private property system. First of all it is necessary to recognize the fundamental role that cooperationwhat is more usually named “division of labor”plays. Cooperation and division of labor benefits its participants in at least three ways: economies of scale, diversification of abilities and specialization. Economies of scale refer just to that situation in which there are positive synergies from cooperation. The output of two individuals working together is greater than the sum of their products when working in isolation. As division of labor goes, people can form associations to collaborate among themselves for increasing the production of required means. In fact, there may be some products which cannot be obtained by autistic individuals. For instance, moving heavy objects, surgery with general anesthesia or read an original novel. In these cases, the economies of scale derived from the whole system of division of labor are virtually infinite: two null outcomes sum a positive one. Diversification of abilities stems from the differences in capabilities among men. Some people are more skilled at some task than others. If individual A needs a mean x to reach his ends but has plenty of difficulties to get it, while individual B, who can produce it easily, has several problems in obtaining mean y, whose production A mastered, it is sensible to them to cooperate. They both can profit from the different abilities of other people. Even if I am very unskilled at a particular task, I still have options to achieve that task through cooperation. This leads us to the third benefit of division of labor: specialization. If people perform those tasks in which they are better, they could improve even further they skills and increase their productivity. People such as geniuses could devote their time to research, as they do not need to grow food, tailor their cloths and teach their children. Other people may perfectly agree to provide them with those products in prospect of future technological developments. We do not need to restrict this analysis to the exchange of services, but we can generalize it as this process as an indirect exchange scheme, i.e. people create means, which are not directly needed for their own ends but for other people’s. Specialization can evolve till systematic production of one basket of goods which are hoped to be sold in the market. Everyone who wants to participate in this huge spontaneous organizationcapitalists, workers, entrepreneurs or consumershas to find his place looking for profit opportunities. To do this people will employ economic calculation with historical market prices (as patterns of past exchanges) and their entrepreneurial sense. Decisions about what to produce (and what to consume), who to produce for (and who to buy from) and how to produce (and which are the conditions of the purchase) modify the previous productive structure. In developed economic societies, division of labor is totally dependent on consumer needs as forecast by entrepreneurs and capitalists. Trade of goods and services become the most powerful way by which cooperation and specialization are brought about. Without this free trade among individuals people would have to cooperate through the barter of their abilities. Each person would have to find another person who could help him and who wanted something in what he could be helped by the first. Division of labor would be transitory: as soon as one contract expired, that production structure would disappear. Specialization would be very rudimentary and the scope of cooperation would be limited to the projects of the direct participants. What exchange allows is an increase of the size of the division of labor to every person that participates in the market, even without being aware of it, and to have individuals specialized in some production processes which have not been explicitly asked by anyone. Then we get to the third stage of economic development. When people know that they can sell some good continually in the market and buy other goods with the proceedings, it becomes profitable to reduce the opportunity cost of that productive activity in order to retain as much revenue as possible. In fact, sales depend on consumer’s willingness to buy and that depends on offering some product better than other sellers. Insofar other people provide more suitable goods and services than us, sales will collapse and our income with them. Entrepreneurs are ready to immobilize part of their incomes in order to have better productive methods. Capital allows them to incorporate more machines and technologies, to start new business and to devote time to research and develop better products which aim at consumer’s needs. Division of labor through exchange makes capital accumulation possible: people know that their task is to produce some goods and that their performance will be the better the more capital they employ. They save part of their earnings to invest in their previous production processes (amortization) or in new ones. This way, wealth is created in an asymptotic proportion. On the one hand, production of goods and services increases hugelyi.e. more ends being achieved; on the other, we have more intermediate goods which are also wealth because of the reasons so far explained. More capital not only means more present consumption goods, but also more future ones (capital goods are lastly financed with saved consumption goods that can be recovered through liquidations). Societies get richer as far as their proportion of consumers goods in relation to capital goods gets smaller, although its absolute number grows[4]. Probably it is in the case of investment where the necessity of private property is more clearly seen. People will only be disposed to spend resources in roundabout methods of production that take a considerable time to mature if it is foreseeable that their proceeds will be retained by the owner. Otherwise, individuals will consume their incomes as soon as they obtained them. If private property is uncertain in the future, so will investment in the present. 3.1 A reinforcement of wealth creation We have so far analyzed what is wealth and how people organize themselves to create it. Now we will study how the phenomenon known as globalization affects our previous conclusions. Globalization is just an expansion of the extent of the division of labor[5], i.e. an increase in cooperation among people, both in the number of participants and in the number of relationships. This change may have been motivated by several factors, such as reductions in transportation costs due to better technology, an improvement of communications or a higher respect for private property (for instance, a reduction on trade barriers means allowing more enforceable contractual agreements among people located in different countries). But in any case, the nature of globalization is the same wherever it comes about: the spontaneous division of labor adapts itself to the new capitalists, workers, entrepreneurs and consumers and becomes more wealth productive. A deeper and more extensive division of labor implies more economies of scale, wider range of individual abilities and more opportunities for specialization. Since entrepreneurs face a greater demand from the new consumers, they can increase the size of their factories and reduce the average cost of production spreading it among more units. Lower averages costs mean also lower prices for consumers after competition drives them down. A wider range of individual abilities diversifies the qualities and quantities of suppliers: there are more people who can do more things. Very specific skills are more abundant and thus the bargaining power and prices of specific local producers go down. Finally, thanks to the economies of scale and the greater number of abilities, specialization can be focused to very concrete issues, increasing thus productivity and creativity. All this leads to lower prices and more diversified means: consumers can buy more and better commodities and thus reach more ends, i.e. more wealth is created. Increased trade among individuals is just the external and visible way in which this new division of labor manifests itself. However, before new trade patterns are developed, the exchanged commodities must be produced, what just can be done through changes in the structure of production. Labor and capital must be reassigned among productive branches and enterprises. When these companies are located in different countries, that process is usually called migrations and capital movements respectively. It is commonly asserted that we could expect out of this process a tendency toward the equalization of the incomes of factors of production. But we should speak not about monetary incomes, but about subjective incomes. Employees not only look for higher wages that allow them to acquire more mean but also for other factors such as location, simplicity, physical effort, psychical motivation, altruism, etc. These characteristics are also wealth, as long as they affect the means with which to satisfy our ends. Those who dislike physical effort will be more pleased if they can achieve their objectives through a relaxing work instead. In fact, improving workplace conditions is another kind of remuneration that must be financed with capital[6]. There is only one way by which wages can be increased without destroying wealth, this is by increasing labor productivity[7]. Labor productivity can only be increased through capital, either by more capital accumulation or by incorporating technological advances in the form of capital goods. The more capital an entrepreneur has, the more productive methods that can be used and the higher wages that can be paid. However, capital accumulation is a very hard task. Capital is savings and to save one has to restrict its consumption. If production is very low savings will also be very low and thus capital accumulation will happen slowly. This is where capitalist enter into the picture. Capital profitability is determined by the rate of return, this is, profits over capital invested. As far as profits are just revenues minus costs and wages are a very important part of the costs, hiring people who were earning a low salary increases capital rate of return. For instance, if I earn $11000 from my business and to run it I have to spend $10000 a yearout of which 5000 are wagesmy rate of return is 10% (profits=1000, capital expenditure=10000). If I could hire people who are willing to work for half of the previous wages, my rate of return pumps to 46%[8]. The). This is just wage arbitration among homogeneous workers. Entrepreneurs may have to incur in additional expenses in order to hire those low wage workers. This can happen, for example, if it is necessary for the production center to relocate closer to where the people work. Likewise, we can illustrate it just changing the above numbers a bit. If entrepreneurs can only reach those workers by paying 1000 extra dollars, rate of return will be around 30%, a figure which is lower than 46% but that it is still far higher than 10%. In other words, it is profitable to hire those low wage workers even with those expenses. Being that the case, low wage workers are not condemned to a slow capital accumulation process when capitalists are near. Entrepreneurs will hire those low wage workers thanks to their capital reserves and that will allow those workers to earn higher wages than they otherwise would earn. Up to this point, these workers can start saving increasing quantities of money and become themselves capitalists who continue the capital accumulation (and wealth creation) process. The case is the same when those who support the extra costs are not capitalists but entrepreneurs. With migrations entrepreneurs are not the ones who seek workers; it is the workers who seek entrepreneurs, and the ones assuming the costs Instead of capital looking for lower wages, those earning low wages are looking for higher productivity[9]. In any case, the capitalist’s seek for profits allows workers to reach a more diversified supply of labor opportunities which makes possible better combinations of their job preferences with higher wage rates[10]. The resulting division of labor system will encompass all the benefits studied in the previous section but in a deeper form. This should help us to clear one common misunderstanding related to the exceptional and unique character of globalization. As a legacy of German historicism and Marxist theory of History, globalization is seen as a new stage in human development that requires some ad hoc economic theory. On the contrary, economic principles comprised in the previous section would be enough to describe globalization. There exist no particular economic laws which depend on historical contingencies. The prerequisite of private property and the profits from division of labor led by exchange and capital accumulation are an a priori truth apart from the concrete circumstances in which they take place. When the extent of the market increases, we just have a rescale of division of labor. There is no modification and no exception in the underlying economic laws. 3.2 Common criticisms To many people globalization is just a process by which a minority plunders the majority. It is a zero-sum game in which losers outnumber by far the winners. Our analysis has proved that this is not clearly the case; every participant in the increased division of labor derived from globalization benefits. Anyway, in order to give a more solid ground to our conclusions, we are going to address those critiques. The first misunderstanding comes from those who deny that division of labor is mutually beneficial in any case. If one person is better than another in everything, there would be no profitable exchange as far as the first individual can provide for himself all that he need. As there will not be any specialization, the first individual will monopolize all the production and will exclude the second one from the division of labor system. We may call it “the absolute advantage theory of trade”. The doctrine was already proved fallacious by David Ricardo when he explained that international trade was governed by comparative and not absolute advantage. If individual A can produce 10 television sets or 3 cars in 12 hours and individual B 8 televisions and 2 cars, then if both work in isolation and try to diversify production, the maximum output achievable in a day would be: Individual A: 10 television sets and 3 cars Individual B: 8 televisions sets and 2 cars Total output: 18 television sets and 5 cars However if both cooperate and individual A specializes in TV production and individual B in car production, total output is given by: Individual A: 20 television sets Individual B: 4 cars Total output: 20 television sets and 4 cars Now A can use their 10 extra cars to buy not only the third car that would have produced in isolation but also a forth one that was not available to him. B on the same way can use his two extra cars to buy 10 television sets, which represent two more than those that could produce in isolation. Trade is mutually beneficial in physical terms for both individuals even when one of them does not have an absolute advantage in any good. As they devote their time in those projects in which they are better, global productivity increases. This physicalist approach is however just a particular case of a more general one: division of labor is mutually beneficial with regard to subjective plans. Since time is scarce, every person must choose which activities to perform. People will tend to concentrate on the most valued activities and outsource less valued ones. But to do that, any person must compare the cost of acquiring that activity in the market (this is, hire another person to do it) with the cost of performing it by himself. As long as the cost of performing that activity by himself is an opportunity cost (not performing by himself other activities), the individual will have always to renounce to perform some activities. If the cost of being provided that non-performed activity by the market is inferior to the profits he derives from it, then there will be incentives for cooperation, even if that individual is absolutely superior in both tasks. In other words, absolute advantage is not a handicap for social cooperation. Indeed, cooperation fosters wealth both by increasing productivity and by providing commodities which would not have been available otherwise. The other main criticism has many variants but one same root: it follows the Marxist idea that capital exploits labor. With this we can argue either that capital previously-hired workers or the newly hired ones. Let’s focus on the first idea. We have seen that in globalization there is a tendency toward the equalization of incomes for homogeneous factors of production. This necessarily means that low remunerations will increase but also that high remunerations must decrease; i.e. Third-World workers will enjoy higher wages but “national” workers will suffer from lower salaries[11]. The fallacy of this argumentation lies on the implicit assumption that the only form of income for “national” workers is wages, what implies that national workers must remain national workers even when we are exporting capital (so they will not discover any profit opportunity for investing abroad). If being a capitalist becomes exceedingly profitable thanks to foreign low wage workers, there is no reason to suppose that national workers cannot invest part of their savings to hire foreign workers. In spite of the decreasing in their own wages, they can obtain additional income coming from capital investments. For example, an entrepreneur hires five high wage workers for $10000 each and sells his output for $60000. The rate of return of this investment will be 10000/50000=20%. If this entrepreneur discovers that he can hire low wage workers for $1000 $, he will fire his five high wage workers obtaining a return of 55000/5000=1100%. This is unmistakably a signal that more investment is needed in this sector and thus other capitalists and previous high wage workers can increase capital funds out of their savings. For instance, the five workers might have saved $1500 each one from his last salary and hire these low wage workers for that price. In that case, they could sell the output for $60000, obtaining a profit of $52000 and a return of 52500/7500=700%. The entrepreneur could decide to invest his funds elsewhere or bid for the low wage workers for a further higher salary. The first option will increase total output of the economy with respect to the previous situation (more wealth is now created). The second one would leave the high wage workers with a new trade-off: to form a cooperative and compete with low wage workers or to become stockholders of a more capitalized enterprise that wants to enter in that sector. In both cases, output will be increased and thus prices will be lower than otherwise. Finally, workers could also think not to be able to compete in that sector, and thus to invest his savings in satisfying the additional demand that will come out of the huge profits of his previous employer. Recall that when the entrepreneur hired high wage workers he obtained a profit of $10000 $, but now he is gaining $55000, this is 45000 extra dollars which will be devoted either to consumption or to savings. Both decisions create an additional demand either for consumption or for capital goods that could be satisfied by the investment of his previous employees. Of course, in every case previous high wage workers could still look for another job which paid them a slightly lower salary with which to complement his investment returns. Newly, more output and thus more wealth is created. We can summarize our conclusions in the following scheme. When one entrepreneur finds new low wage workers, fired ones can: As we see, the net result of the appearance of new workers is to increase total wealth: there is a greater quantity and variety of consumption and capital goods and then lower prices. Whether this wealth will be redistributed to workers in a higher proportion than their preceding income is a question that cannot be answered a priori. The point is that if they act properlyby inserting themselves into the more complex division of labor system and aiming to solve other people’s needsthey can be clearly better off as there has been created more wealth. This conclusion is equally valid when we talk in aggregate terms. Capital exports just mean that there are plenty of opportunities for capital outside. If workers want to remain just workers without trying to take advantage of those opportunities, it is possible that, despite the fall in prices, they get worse off. However this would just represent a shortcoming in grasping which the necessities of people are: when there are individuals willing to work for a low salary what is needed is more capital, not higher wages. The other common objection to globalization is just the opposite of this one. Capitalists still exploit workers, but this time foreign ones. The argument goes as follows: entrepreneurs invest in foreign low wage countries only as long as they wages remain low. When their wages begin to rise, capital goes outside the country (hot money) looking for other low wage zones. This argument is much simplistic than the earlier. The implicit assumption is that there will always be enough lower wage workers to satisfy entrepreneurial (consumer) needs which will offset wage increases. Unfortunately, labor is the only real scarce factor of production[12] and as capital is accumulated, labor must receive increasing remunerations, at least in real terms. But even if we considered the assumption true for a moment, the conclusion would be incorrect. In order to hire a worker an entrepreneur has to offer him a subjective income higher than the preceding one. The more this extra payment lasts the more opportunities for saving the worker has. One entrepreneur could disinvest from one country after having stayed there five years, but during that period their workers could have become capitalists who invest by themselves[13] (and this includes the ability to hire that infinite bunch of lower wage workers that is supposed to exist). 3.3 Some empirical results Although we have shown a priori the intrinsic goodness of a global market economy, it may be interesting to refer to some data that illustrate our arguments. Xavier Sala-i-Martin has performed some empirical research[14] that show that the number of poor peopledefined as those who earn less than $826 a yearhas diminished from 1200 millions to 800 in the period 1970-2000. The results are far more impressive if we take into account that world population has doubled in that period and that thus poverty in relative terms has gone down from 37% of world population to 13%. These results are pretty similar to those of Surjit Bhalla who suggests that poverty$2 a dayhas fallen 60% to 23%. Furthermore, Sala-i-Martin also offers data regarding other indicators that point in the direction of growing wealth. Life expectancy has increased from 60 to 67 years, child mortality has fallen from 10% to 6%, literacy has grown from 64 to 80% and access to potable water has risen from 25% to 80%. Both authors coincide in one point: there has been on part of the world which has not taken advantage from globalization, i.e. Africa. For instance, Sala-i-Martin says that “We are living in a world which is not perfect, although it globally improves, but it is also a world in which Africa is a disaster. The question is who to blame: Africa or globalization”. Similarly, Bhalla states that: Zero 2$ is likely in all parts of the World in 2015, except in sub-Saharan Africa. This region’s share of the world’s poor people is expected to rise from 36% today to almost 90% in 2015[15]. Our target in the next section will be to explain how wealth can be destroyed, looking at particular policies that have isolated African people from globalization. 4.1 Two kinds of interventionism Up to this point, we have studied which are the foundations and representations of wealth: private property and division of labor manifested through commodities exchanges and capital investment. However we have also seen that in some parts of the worldAfricapeople has been systematically unable to create wealth. The fundamental reason behind this fact is, as we have already seen, the systematic violation of property rights that blocks division of labor, exchange and capital accumulation. This violation may come either from a State which explicitly abolishes private property or from a state of affairs in which legal availability is not generally respected. In these cases people would lack incentives to cooperate in a huge scale division of labor, as long as very long-term plans would be subjected to the arbitrary decision of another person or group of people. Systematic interventionism creates alternative networks of labor to those that would have prevailed in a free market. It tries to either impose one central plan or to combine it with the supposed plans of its participants. During the time in which this alternative networks function, any other association is perceived as sabotage of the central plan: people who do not summit are hampering the collectivist organization. As we see, individuals cannot adjust their plans as they could made in a market economy. No more than the people who are endowed with the legal availability over all the resources is capable to modify the individual’s position in the network. No profit opportunity can be detected precisely because no profit opportunity exists: individuals cannot follow their own plans and thus no one can find any end to be satisfied. Exchange cannot take place and capital accumulation makes no sense. It is the State who decides how much is saved and consumed and how savings must be spent to create machines, materials and other productive structures. Wealth destructionpovertywith explicit interventionism is clear. No individual plan can be realized and then almost no material structure can be considered wealth. Just those consumer goods that central planning board gives to people and which coincide by chance with some of their ends will lastly be considered wealth. Neither division of labor schemes nor productive structures could be considered wealth, since they block other higher ranked ends and means that could be achieved by individuals in absence of coercion. Asystematic interventionism is equally destructive of wealth, but its manifestation is a bit different. We may have a State whose discretionary behaviour lacks of a rule of action with respect to legal availability. In this context, people would be led by their expectations of coercion. If they foresee that they will be deprived in the future of the legal availability over their means, they will shorten their plans until the point in which they hope to be able to use their means. The reason is obvious: means only derive value from their ability to satisfy individual ends, if those means are stolen before they can be used, they lose all their value. Shortening the number of stages in individual plans has a precautionary effect against coercion. If the period between means creation and means consumption is very short, asystematic violence is less likely to occur; it has less time to materialize. The longer the period of the plan, the higher the probability of asystematic interventionism to happen, even if we considered that a given government is not a priori very willing to coerce people. So far we can already say that the effect of asystematic interventionism is always to shorten the number of stages of people’s plans and we know that among the longer there are always more productive plans, which implies a narrow margin for social cooperation and for capital investment. When we fulfill our ends through the division of labor, we place other people’s ends as a mean of ours. This human cooperation can be done horizontally (an association of various people who try to satisfy other person’s ends) or vertically (I satisfy the needs of another person which in turn were the means for satisfying a third person ends). Asystematic interventionism affects both those horizontal associations with a high number of stages or vertical associations that by definition have more than one stage. The fact that the more time-consuming structures are the ones that are most damaged also implies that capital accumulation (which could be use to finance this time-consuming structure while they did not mature[16]) will also be strongly diminished. The range of division of labor is greatly reduced and resources are normally consumed as one gets them because there is no investment opportunity. A society can suffer both systematic and asystematic interventionism. The scope of the first one determines the extension of the division of labor: more systematic interventionism means a smaller division of labor organization. The hardness and regularity of the second increases the uncertainty over legal availability and thus the complexity of the division of labor that remained outside systematic interventions. Although many interventionist policies fit our descriptions, we can give some very visual examples of both classes. Taxes and regulations are kinds of systematic interventionism. Wars, inflation and expropriations are examples of the asystematic one. Taxes imply that some people spend wealth without having created it, i.e. there is a complete loss of legal availability over resources. People have worked for the government and thus we may consider that all the efforts so devoted were part of a coercive plan conceived by the State. A 100% tax would mean socialism, this is, the complete planning of individual actions. Regulations force or prevent some actions to happen. In this sense, it is a sort of construction of society and cooperation. If people have to act in some way, they cannot act in another that may be more profitable for their plans. If people must not act in some way, the potential area for cooperation is restricted. Wars may generate a huge uncertainty over the future legal availability of resources, specially when defence competences have been expropriated and monopolized without giving individuals the possibility of choosing their most preferred defender. During a war, insecure people try to provide themselves as fast as possible with the most elementary consumption and protective goods. There is no place for long term investments. Inflation, as the debasement of money, provokes a redistribution of the value of the currency, which complicates the possibility to purchase of the desired consumption goods and which erodes savings. The consequences is clearly a tendency to buy consumption goods before its prices increase more and to transform savings into assets that do not loss value, even if they are very illiquid. Finally, expropriations mean the probability of losing a resource by governmental discretionary decision. The higher the subjective probability, the faster one will be willing to sell or consume the resource. Therefore, that means it will not enter into long-term plans. 4.2 African case It is clear that any society that suffers from any of these diseases must suffer from wealth destruction (impoverishment). Now let examine how this analysis fits with Africa and how it can explain its situation[17]. We will mainly use Heritage 2007 Index of Economic Freedom data: If one had to sum up Africa’s main problem it would unquestionably be the lack of respect for property rights. Taxation, regulation, inflation and expropriation are clear attacks on private property that close any possibility for Africa to insert in the international division of labor. Mauritius, Botswana and South Africa are the South-African countries whose population is most prosperous[26] and, according to Heritage, are also the three with more respect for property rights. We have identified a priori the disease. We have shown that it fits with reality. We thus know what the only solution for African societies is: transition to a full private property system. However, from many strata other solutions are proposed; we will devote our last section to analysis the viability of those ideas. Along this essay we have established that private property is both a sufficient and a necessary condition for wealth creation. It is sufficient because no other factor is needed to reconcile individual plan in a mutually beneficial cooperation scheme. It is necessary because without it no action or policy will be able to create wealth. Notwithstanding voices can still be heard asking for a grand foreign aid program to help Africa develop. Their proponents generally do not explain the concrete ways in which this aid will foster wealth; it is just assumed that it will. Although for a non-economist it might seem self-evident that money is wealth and that giving money to people can achieve them to be prosperous, these judgements are doubtfully valid and consistent. The Western observer tends to think with his backward experience, i.e. assuming that money is wealth because he has a bigger or smaller legal availability over it. The reasoning should be much different if we took into account that Africa is not stuck by the lack of resources, but by the lack of private property. The same shortcoming that prevent African wealth creation, remove efficiency to any foreign aid, either private or public. It may be useful to prove this point by examining the ways in which foreign aid could be used and what would be their consequences. Before of that, it is necessary to clarify one point. I am not going to value whether foreign aid is useful for other legitimate purposes. My argumentation will just be concerned with development and wealth creation, this is, with the ability of individuals to fulfil increasing numbers of ends. Despite being against public foreign aid, I do not want to question private charity’s movies. I will just show that if the purpose of the donor is to help African people to be able to create wealth, it will simply not work in absence of private property. 5.1 Food and clothes The most primary destiny of foreign aid is to buy food and clothesas kinds of very basic productsto Africans. The relation of this use of aid with growth would be the following: starving people cannot prosper; if we feed them, they will have free time to create wealth. The reasoning has a problem of causality inversion. What we try to explain and solve is African poverty, one of whose signs is starvation. Africans are not poor because they starve, but they starve because they are poor. Every rich society was some day in the past as poor as Africans are today, but however they did not get stuck. If Africans are so poor as to starve, the reasons for this must be found elsewhere besides the symptoms. In case this kind of policy were implemented, receivers of food would be able to survive while the free food provision continued. They would not be able to create wealth by the same reasons they had not been able in the past. And as soon as aid stopped, starvation would continue. Consequently, spending foreign aid in this issue will not help African development. 5.2 Education Mainstream interventionist economists have already recognized in part our previous argument (mostly after the complete failure of foreign aid to promote growth). Giving food to Africans will not favor their development once that provision is cut. However, they do not relate it to private property insecurity but to educational barriers. The idea has been sum up in the motto “If you give a man a fish he will eat today but if you teach him to fish he’ll eat for a lifetime”. Foreign aid thus could be useful in promoting education and in this way African development. This reasoning still fails to recognize what the true problem is. African people already know how to fish or how to grow their lands. It would be naïve to suppose that after centuries of having lived with the Nature they do not know anything. The true point is that despite knowing how to fish they do not fish or at least they do not fish enough. In other words, they do not use their knowledge to form economic plans. And they do not do that due to the reasons we have already sketched: there is no l a private property system in Africa. Without private property there can be neither a truly productive division of labor (among fishermen) nor investments that assist them (ships, nets…). No one want to put their very scarce resources in some projects that with high probability will be interrupted by force. Extensions of the argument are equally invalid. Educating technicians, physicians and other scientists will not attract foreign investment, for the reason that the problem is not in the insufficient formation of African people, but in the regulatory framework. Africa has already a comparative advantage in costs that is not currently exploited by foreign companies because of that framework. Nothing would change with better education. In fact, the foreseeable consequence is that those scientists formed in Africa emigrate to the First World, where they are required and where that kind of projects can be realized. 5.3 Healthcare A variant of the food case for foreign aid is the demand for better health care. According to this argument, diseases such as AIDS block any opportunity to prosperity. If Africans had better health, they could create wealth. The argument might be plausible if healthy African population would be able to get richer, but this is not the case. Although diseases are a huge problem, they are not the problem that prevents many peoplehealthy and unhealthyfrom fulfilling their ends. In fact, two of the richest African countriesBotswana and South Africaare also two of the most affected by AIDS, whereas other very poor countries such as Congo have much lower AIDS infection rate. 5.4 National industry subsidizing Another part of the economic literature thinks that a Third World problem is the lack of national industries which could sell in national and international markets since they are immediately swept away by more efficient multinational corporations. Some of them defend infant industries tariffs to protect national markets and others propose to subsidize the industries in order to compete in international ones; subsidies that could be paid with foreign aid. This argument completely misses the point. Of course the lack of capital in Africa is an obstacle to the formation of competitive enterprises with a high performance. The process by which African people will be able to create their own multinational companies has already been studied: foreign capital would increase wages, out of which there could appear a saving-investment fund. Furthermore, as Africans became wealthier and solvent they could ask for foreign loans to start their own business. Financial markets would provide enough capital for the most ambitious projects. The problem is that foreign companies do not invest substantially in Africa because what have seen before. Africans have to enter in the international division of labor to supply now the goods and services which are required by consumers not by politicians. There is no point in forcing the appearance of industries that are far more inefficient that other competitors. It would just be a complete waste of resources, whose effects would be similar to the food and clothes argument: Africans employed in subsidised industries would receive a net transfer of income, but they would not be able to spend it productively while private property is under attack. 5.5. Public works The last possible justification for foreign aid is public works. Government would be entitled to build all the infrastructures the country needs to wake up. Once the equipment could be used, African people and foreign companies would start investing thanks to the higher expected profitability of their projects. The implicit assumption is that part of the poverty of Africa comes from its lack of some equipment, which only the State can provide. And this is the reason why it is false. Profit opportunities in Africa would be out there if government did not hamper the market. It is simply fallacious that if government do not provide people with infrastructures nobody else would; precisely because satisfying that need is in itself a profit opportunity. But the problem of this proposal is the same than in previous cases. If a private property system is not restored, no infrastructure would be of utility. Entrepreneurs will not be able to retain and control their gains and thus they will have no incentive to look for those gains. Governmental expenditure would moreover constitute a case of systematic interventionism that reduces the extent of the market and summits it to central planning orders. Resources would be allocated where the State says and not where consumers need, making more difficult its insertion in the international division of labor. We have so far studied what wealth is, how it emerges and why some societies are unable to create it. The main conclusion has been that private property is a sufficient and a necessary condition for development. The second corollary is obviously that any other proposed policy will fail while this huge shortcoming is not solved. Likewise, we could say, following P. T. Bauer, that foreign aid is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for development:. All this implies that foreign aid is useless. But P. T. Bauer was going a bit further in the quote which opened this essay by saying that “Development aid, far from being necessary to rescue poor societies from a vicious circle of poverty, is far more likely to keep them in that state.”. Could foreign aid be not only useless but also harmful? From the donor perspective it is crucial to distinguish between private and public aid. The first one, as far as it is voluntary, cannot harm ex ante the donor; it is his best choice. Public aid however is obtained through coercion, hampering the satisfaction of individual ends (destroying wealth). As P. T. Bauer once more stated it is “redistribution from poor taxpayers in rich countries to rich people in poor countries”. From the receiver’s perspective it is necessary to distinguish whether he keeps the legal availability or not. In the first case, it is clear that every gift raises disposable wealth for the receiver, as long as the number of available means to satisfy his ends increases. However, if the government ultimately owns the aid, either public or private, the original receiver will not be able to fit it into their plans and thus it could not be considered wealth at all. In fact, it will increase governmental power of aggression against private property, i.e. the root of all evils. Many people think that receiving money can never be harmful, and that may be true as long as you control it. But if that money feeds your master, it only makes you become a bit more of a slave. There is no paradox in African people asking for the end of foreign aid or as the Kenyan economist James Shikwati puts it: Huge bureaucracies are financed (with the aid money), corruption and complacency are promoted, Africans are taught to be beggars and not to be independent. And thus he claimed: For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid![27] The following graph illustrates perfectly our reasoning: [28] There is only one path to development: capitalism. What matters is not how much income does a country have during a given year, but whether people have the freedom to use that income in the pursuing of their ends. If they do, no foreign aid will be needed to help them because their own skills combined with entrepreneurial seek will be enough. If they do not have this freedom, then not even all the resources of the world would allow them to prosper. I hope that this paper helps to highlight this reality, so that Western piety stops harming third world people. Bauer, Peter, and Basil S. Yamey, “The Economics of Under-developed Countries”, Cambridge University Press. Bhalla, Surjit, “Imagine There’s No Country: Poverty, Inequality and Growth in the Era of Globalization” Böhm-Bawerk, Eugen, “Capital and Interest”, Libertarian Press Del Castillo, José Ignacio “Dinero caliente y globalización” Fredrik Eirkson, Fredrik, “Why Aid does not work” Hayek, Friedrich, “Prices and Production”, George Routledge & Sons Hazlitt, Henry, “Man vs. The Welfare State”, Arlington House. Hazlitt, Henry, “The Conquest of Poverty”, Foundation for Economic Education. Heritage Foundation, 2007 Index of Economic Freedom Huerta de Soto, “Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles”, Ludwig von Mises Institute Mises, Ludwig von, “Human Action”, Scholar’s Edition, Ludwig von Mises Institute Reisman, George, “Capitalism”, Jameson Books Reisman, George, “Globalization: The Long-Run Big Picture” Roberts, Paul Craig & Schumer Charles, “Second Thoughts on Free Trade” Rothbard, Murray, “Man, Economy & State”, Scholar’s Edition, Ludwig von Mises Institute Sala-i-Martin, Xavier, “Globalización y Reducción de la Pobreza”, FAES Shikwati, James, “Interview in Der Spiegel”, Strigl, Richard von, “Capital and Production”, Ludwig von Mises Institute Wickman Kurt, “Whither the Common Agricultural Policy”, Timbro [1] We can say that there is no uncertainty of future aggression over individual plans. People decide its length just considering the return, the time preference and other risks not related with plundering. [2] For every capital good, there must be a definite market in which firms buy and sell that good (…) Under one owner or one cartel for the whole productive system, there would be no possible areas of calculation at all, and therefore complete economic chaos would prevail. Murray Rothbard, Man Economy and State, Scholar’s Edition, Ludwig von Mises Institute, p. 613-614. [3] See Böhm-Bawerk, Capital and Interest, Libertarian Press. [4] See Hayek’s Prices and Production, George Routledge & Sons. [5] We follow closely Adam Smith and George Reisman’s definition: <<Adam Smith wrote that “the division of labor is limited by the extent of the market”. By this he meant that the division of labor is limited by the number of cooperating producers in the society (…) Globalization in contrast means bringing into the market all the producers in the entire world and thus making possible the maximum amount of division of labor consistent with the size of the world’s population>>. George Reisman, Globalization: The Long-Run Big Picture. [6] Because entrepreneurs compete with other entrepreneurs for the factors of production, they can either offer higher wages or better conditions of labor. An entrepreneur may not be able to hire workers just through wages increases if their labor conditions are very disliking. [7] Of course, wages could also be increased out of capital accumulation in a non-market economy; i.e. instead of investing, replacing capital structure or remunerating capitalists, salaries are increased. Wherever the sources of capital reduction come, the effect is a clear destruction of wealth. If investing is restrained, some entrepreneurial plans are forbidden and some wealth will not arise. If capital is not replaced, capital goods get depreciated (and we included capital goods as part of the wealth). And if capitalists are not remunerated or less remunerated, part of their plans will not be fulfilled (wealth destruction) and furthermore their savings will decrease (what leads toward the depreciation of part of the capital stock). [8] Revenues: 11000, costs: 7500, profits: 3500. Rate of return=3500/7500=46% [9] Normally we can expect that the one who moves first gests the greater advantage. If capitalists assumes the cost of hiring the workers he will have a wider set of options, while if it is the worker capitalist will only profit passively. For example, if a company moves to a village of 100 low wage workers, it can hire the 100% of the population for the very low wage. If the company does not move and only 10 villagers travel to another village of high wage workers, the company will be able to hire them but a much higher wage rate than before. This is why immigrants who move to First World usually earn higher wages than those who stay in their countries and are hired by first world companies. [10] As people grow richer, they can afford to buy other goods and services that only interest them when some other needs have been fulfilled. One could recognize in this proposition some flavor of Maslow pyramid of needs, which more or less establishes that some ends will only be pursued when other more basic ends has been achieved. Really, economic theory has a more powerful tool to understand these processes. Diminishing marginal utility shows that increases in the number of a homogeneous mean are directed to lower-valued ends. Increases in the number of a good will reduce the value of the extra units and then the productivity and remuneration of factors of production employed in it. After the increase in the quantity of this mean (increase in wealth) other uses for factors of production become relatively more profitable than before. [11] This theory was supported by Paul Craig Roberts and Charles Schumer who argued that comparative advantage only hold with two contidions: free internal mobility for factors of production but external immobility. Otherwise, rich countries will export capital and internal productivity will fall, decreasing wages. See “Second Thoughts on Free Trade”, New York Times, 6 January 2004: [12] It is our labor and our time that are fundamentally scarce, not land or natural resources. It is our labor and our time that we fundamentally need to save, not land or natural resources. George Reisman, Capitalism, p. 71, Jameson Books. [13] In fact the problem of hot money (fast capital outflows) is not associated with rising wages, but with inflation: If people want to “freeze” the money, one just have to create a proper financial environment in which it is possible to invest comfortably. This environment means: a gold coin that cannot be devaluated, the complete separation of money and capital markets according to the strictest principles of liquidity, budget balance and the respect for the general principle of law, i.e. fulfillment of agreements and debt satisfaction through the issue of the real values. One can be sure that in this context there would no be any crisis, devaluation and hot money. José Ignacio del Castillo, Dinero caliente y globalización: [14] Globalización y reducción de la pobreza, Xavier Sala-i-Martin, FAES [15] Surjit Bhalla, Imagine There’s No Country: Poverty, Inequality and Growth in the Era of Globalization, p. 172: [16] See Capital and Production by Richard von Strigl, Ludwig von Mises Institue. [17] Of course we are aware that Africa is a very heterogeneous region and that not every problem affects the whole African societies. However, these problems do explain a important part of the poverty of the countries that suffered or still suffer them and in all cases are African countries. [18] For instance, Chad has a 65% top income tax rate and 45% top corporate tax rate. Ivory Coast 60% and 35%. Togo 55% and 37%. And the Republic of Congo 50% and 38%. [19] For example, the Swedish think tank Timbro estimates that EU consumers pay roughly 80100 % more for their food than would be the case in a mature free-market régime. Timbro, Whither the European Agricultural Policy? [20] 233 days in Guinea-Bissau, 155 in the Democratic Republic of Congo, 136 days in Equatorial Guinea, 124 in Angola, 113 in Mozambique or 96 in Zimbabwe. [21] Zimbabwe: The government's increasingly hostile attitude toward foreign investment and its support for economic nationalism have led to growing cronyism and corruption. Expropriation is very common. The government controls foreign exchange. Foreign exchange accounts are subject to government approval and restrictions. Payments and transfers are subject to government approval and numerous restrictions, and all outward capital transactions are controlled. Angola: Capital and money market transactions, capital repatriation, real estate transactions, and personal capital movements are subject to strict controls. In most instances, these transactions require central bank approval and/or licensing. Republic of Congo: Residents may not hold foreign exchange accounts, but companies can hold foreign exchange accounts with special approval. Non-residents may hold foreign exchange accounts subject to government approval. Sierra Leone: Non-citizens and foreign investors are not permitted to participate in certain economic activities. Both residents and non-residents may hold foreign exchange accounts, subject to some restrictions Ethiopia: Foreign exchange accounts, payments, and current transfers are subject to controls and restrictions. There are significant controls on capital transactions. All investments must be approved and certified by the government. [22] Many African countries (such as Guinea-Bissau, Chad and Sierra Leone, Zimbabwe) “operate under highly restrictive employment regulations that hinder employment and productivity growth”. The non-salary cost of employing a worker is normally high. Senegal has rigid “regulations related to increasing or contracting the number of work hours”. Cameroon “labor legislation mandates retraining or replacement before firing a worker”. And Burkina Faso forbids “night and weekend work”. [23] Here we have a non-exhaustive list of most recent conflicts: Ethiopian Civil War (1974-1991) Angolan Civil War (1974-2002), Mozambican Civil War (1977-2002), Uganda-Tanzania War (1978-1979), First Chadian Civil War (1979-1982), Ugandan Civil War (1982-1986), Second Sudanese Civil War (1983-2005), Somali Civil War (1988-to date), First Liberian Civil War (1989-1996), Rwanda Civil War (1990-1994), Algerian Civil War (1991-2002), Sierra Leone Civil War (1991-2002), First Congo War (1996-1997), Guinea-Bissau Civil War (1998-1999), Etiophia-Eriteria War (1998-2003), Second Congo War (1998-2003), Second Liberian Civil War (1999-2003), Second Chadian Civil War (2005-to date). [24] Zimbabwe: 267%, Angola: 34’8%, Guines: 26’3%, Zambia: 18’5%, Madagascar: 15’6%, Ghana: 15’6%, Burma: 15%, Nigeria: 15%. [25] Namibia: Expropriating land from white farm owners is now official policy. The government expropriated three large farms at the end of 2005 and by mid-2006 had begun to offer the land for resettlement. Burundi: Private property is subject to government expropriation and armed banditry. Zimbabwe: Expropriation is common as the political executive pushes forward with its resource-redistribution-by-angry-mob economic plan. [26] Per capita income in Mauritius is $13500, in Botswana $11400 and in South Africa $13000. [27] [28] From “Why Aid does not work”, by Fredrik Eirkson: The author gives reasons pretty similar to ours: Money was spent on current spending and public consumptionwhich, in turn, led to a rapidly growing public sector in the economy. Needless to say, this strengthened other socialist tendencies in the economy and investment became, in many developing countries, mainly a government activity. In addition, aid boosted fiscal budgets and led to a rapidly growing number of parastatals and state-owned enterprises. Largely supported by the donor community at the time, these soon became arenas of corruption and this corruption spread like wildfire to other parts of the society. The tragedy of aid, as been shown in numerous evaluations and by World Bank research, is that donors are part of the problem of corruption; aid often underpins corruption, and higher aid levels tend to erode the governance structure of poor countries. In other words, donors have failed to follow the chief principle of the Hippocratic oath: do no harm!