diff --git "a/pgsql-performance.200308" "b/pgsql-performance.200308" new file mode 100644--- /dev/null +++ "b/pgsql-performance.200308" @@ -0,0 +1,53428 @@ +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 00:40:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBDCCD1C92A + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 03:40:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 03413-10 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 00:39:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from trade-india.com (ns5.trade-india.com [66.234.10.13]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 96729D1C921 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 00:40:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 16343 invoked by uid 0); 1 Aug 2003 03:39:50 -0000 +Received: from mallah@trade-india.com by ns5.trade-india.com by uid 502 with + qmail-scanner-1.15 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4171. Clear:. + Processed in 1.427526 secs); 01 Aug 2003 03:39:50 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO trade-india.com) (203.145.130.142) + by ns5.trade-india.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 2003 03:39:49 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F29E12F.7030207@trade-india.com> +Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:10:31 +0530 +From: Rajesh Kumar Mallah +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030701 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Stephan Szabo +Cc: Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Views With Unions +References: <20030731152719.V26943-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030731152719.V26943-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1 +X-Sequence-Number: 2818 + +Stephan Szabo wrote: + +>On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: +> +> +> +>> select * from log_table where request_time between 'june 11 2003' and +>> 'june 12 2003'; +>> +>>returns a plan: +>>Subquery Scan log_table (cost=0.00..10950.26 rows=177126 width=314) +>> -> Append (cost=0.00..10950.26 rows=177126 width=314) +>> -> Subquery Scan *SELECT* 1 (cost=0.00..3089.07 rows=50307 width=71) +>> -> Seq Scan on log_table_1 (cost=0.00..3089.07 rows=50307 width=71) +>> -> Subquery Scan *SELECT* 2 (cost=0.00..602.92 rows=9892 width=314) +>> -> Seq Scan on log_table_2 (cost=0.00..602.92 rows=9892 width=314) +>> -> Subquery Scan *SELECT* 3 (cost=0.00..2390.09 rows=39209 width=314) +>> -> Seq Scan on log_table_3 (cost=0.00..2390.09 rows=39209 width=314) +>> +>> +> +>What version are you using? In 7.3 and up it should be willing to +>consider moving the clause down, unless there's something like a type +>mismatch (because in that case it may not be equivalent without a bunch +>more work on the clause). +> +Dear Chris, + + I had the same problem(type mismatch) and it was solved finally. +check the list +"factoring problem ... " subject only 2 weeks back . + +regds +mallah. + + +> +> +> +>---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +>TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your +> joining column's datatypes do not match +> +> + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 09:20:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45431D1C4D5 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:16:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38911-03 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:15:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3399DD1C4BF + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:16:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19iYpQ-0004bY-00 + for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 08:16:12 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id B7519CEC9; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:16:12 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:16:12 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Odd explain estimate +Message-ID: <20030801121612.GD18200@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <20030731195145.GD55392@nasby.net> + <20030731205921.GF16230@libertyrms.info> + <20030731225959.GH55392@nasby.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <20030731225959.GH55392@nasby.net> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/2 +X-Sequence-Number: 2819 + +On Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 05:59:59PM -0500, Jim C. Nasby wrote: +> +> Well, if I don't do this it wants to seqscan a table that occupies 350k +> pages, instead of pulling a couple thousand rows. I started running it +> with the seqscan and it's already taken way longer than it does if I +> disable seqscan. + +That was indeed the question. + +If it uses a seqscan when it ought not to do, then there's something +wrong with the statistics, or you haven't vacuum analysed correctly, +or your table needs vacuum full (is it really 350k pages, or is that +mostly dead space?), &c. -- all the usual bad-seqscan candidates. + +enable_seqscan=off is probably not a good strategy for any moderately +complicated query. If the planner were perfect, of course, you'd +never need it at all. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 09:21:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C182D1C9DB + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:20:00 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37238-10 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:18:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC68D1C9D8 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:19:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from acdc.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.254] helo=libertyrms.info) + by mail.libertyrms.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19iYt8-0004fA-00; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 08:20:02 -0400 +Received: from 64.229.210.126 (SquirrelMail authenticated user cbbrowne) + by look.libertyrms.com with HTTP; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:20:02 -0400 (EDT) +Message-ID: <61665.64.229.210.126.1059740402.squirrel@look.libertyrms.com> +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:20:02 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Views With Unions +From: "Christopher Browne" +To: +In-Reply-To: <20030731152719.V26943-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +References: <60adaunxmc.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <20030731152719.V26943-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +X-Priority: 3 +Importance: Normal +Cc: +Reply-To: cbbrowne@libertyrms.info +X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/3 +X-Sequence-Number: 2820 + + +Stephan Szabo said: +> +> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: +> +>> select * from log_table where request_time between 'june 11 2003' +>> and +>> 'june 12 2003'; +>> +>> returns a plan: +>> Subquery Scan log_table (cost=0.00..10950.26 rows=177126 width=314) +>> -> Append (cost=0.00..10950.26 rows=177126 width=314) +>> -> Subquery Scan *SELECT* 1 (cost=0.00..3089.07 rows=50307 +>> width=71) +>> -> Seq Scan on log_table_1 (cost=0.00..3089.07 +>> rows=50307 width=71) +>> -> Subquery Scan *SELECT* 2 (cost=0.00..602.92 rows=9892 +>> width=314) +>> -> Seq Scan on log_table_2 (cost=0.00..602.92 +>> rows=9892 width=314) +>> -> Subquery Scan *SELECT* 3 (cost=0.00..2390.09 rows=39209 +>> width=314) +>> -> Seq Scan on log_table_3 (cost=0.00..2390.09 +>> rows=39209 width=314) +> +> What version are you using? In 7.3 and up it should be willing to +> consider moving the clause down, unless there's something like a type +> mismatch (because in that case it may not be equivalent without a bunch +> more work on the clause). + +That was 7.2.4, although I had also tried it on 7.4 (yesterday's CVS). + +Which provides four findings: + +1. On 7.2.4, adding additional type info just doesn't help, fitting with +the notion that, consistent with your comment, improvement wouldn't happen +earlier than 7.3. + +There's no help on 7.2 :-(, and the system I'm initially most interested +in using this on is still on 7.2. + +2. When I retried on 7.4, it _did_ find search paths based on Index Scan, +when I added in additional type information. So the optimization I was +wishing for _is_ there :-). In the longer term, that's very good news. + +3. I'll have to test this out on 7.3.4, now, as I hadn't, and it sounds +as though that is an interesting case. + +4. It's often necessary to expressly specify type information in queries +to get the optimizer to do the Right Thing. +-- +(reverse (concatenate 'string "ofni.smrytrebil@" "enworbbc")) + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 12:10:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01B9D1C518 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 15:10:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 48799-06 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:09:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6183FD1C4F1 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:10:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 94534D630; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 81F335C10; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: +Subject: Re: Views With Unions +In-Reply-To: <61665.64.229.210.126.1059740402.squirrel@look.libertyrms.com> +Message-ID: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/4 +X-Sequence-Number: 2821 + +On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: + +> Stephan Szabo said: +> > +> > +> > What version are you using? In 7.3 and up it should be willing to +> > consider moving the clause down, unless there's something like a type +> > mismatch (because in that case it may not be equivalent without a bunch +> > more work on the clause). +> +> That was 7.2.4, although I had also tried it on 7.4 (yesterday's CVS). +> +> Which provides four findings: +> +> 1. On 7.2.4, adding additional type info just doesn't help, fitting with +> the notion that, consistent with your comment, improvement wouldn't happen +> earlier than 7.3. +> +> There's no help on 7.2 :-(, and the system I'm initially most interested +> in using this on is still on 7.2. + +If you really wanted you could try going back and finding the diffs +associated with this in the CVS history or committers archives and see if +you can make equivalent changes to 7.2, but that's possibly going to be +difficult. + +> 2. When I retried on 7.4, it _did_ find search paths based on Index Scan, +> when I added in additional type information. So the optimization I was +> wishing for _is_ there :-). In the longer term, that's very good news. +> +> 3. I'll have to test this out on 7.3.4, now, as I hadn't, and it sounds +> as though that is an interesting case. +> +> 4. It's often necessary to expressly specify type information in queries +> to get the optimizer to do the Right Thing. + +Especially for cases like this. It takes the safer route of not pushing +things down when it's not sure if pushing down might change the semantics +(for example if a union piece has a different type from the union +output, simply pushing clauses down unchanged could change the results) + +Tom would probably be willing to relax conditions if it could be proven +safe even for the wierd outlying cases with char and varchar and such. + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 12:50:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC8BD1C7F3 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 15:48:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 51008-08 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:46:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 879C3D1C518 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:48:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from dev6.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.212] helo=libertyrms.info) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19ic8Q-0007ay-00; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:48:02 -0400 +Received: by libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1079) + id E9DCBBBAD8; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:48:01 -0400 (EDT) +To: Stephan Szabo +Cc: +Subject: Re: Views With Unions +References: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +From: Christopher Browne +Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:48:01 -0400 +In-Reply-To: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> (Stephan + Szabo's message of "Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT)") +Message-ID: <60vfthl6q6.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/5 +X-Sequence-Number: 2822 + +Stephan Szabo writes: +> On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: +>> Stephan Szabo said: +>> > What version are you using? In 7.3 and up it should be willing to +>> > consider moving the clause down, unless there's something like a type +>> > mismatch (because in that case it may not be equivalent without a bunch +>> > more work on the clause). +>> +>> That was 7.2.4, although I had also tried it on 7.4 (yesterday's CVS). +>> +>> Which provides four findings: +>> +>> 1. On 7.2.4, adding additional type info just doesn't help, fitting with +>> the notion that, consistent with your comment, improvement wouldn't happen +>> earlier than 7.3. +>> +>> There's no help on 7.2 :-(, and the system I'm initially most interested +>> in using this on is still on 7.2. +> +> If you really wanted you could try going back and finding the diffs +> associated with this in the CVS history or committers archives and see if +> you can make equivalent changes to 7.2, but that's possibly going to be +> difficult. + +Somehow I don't think that'll fly; I have taken a brief look at some +of the optimizer code, and I very much don't want to leap into that at +the moment. (I don't imagine I'd be able to muster much enthusiasm +for the idea from others that are involved, either. More likely, I'm +understating the probable opposition to the idea... :-)) + +I was hoping there would be some help on 7.2, but can live without it. +This approach to improving log purgeability is NOT the sort of thing +that you deploy on a day's notice because it seems like a "neat idea." +If it waits a couple months to be implemented, that's doubtless OK. + +>> 2. When I retried on 7.4, it _did_ find search paths based on Index Scan, +>> when I added in additional type information. So the optimization I was +>> wishing for _is_ there :-). In the longer term, that's very good news. +>> +>> 3. I'll have to test this out on 7.3.4, now, as I hadn't, and it sounds +>> as though that is an interesting case. + +It turns out nicely on 7.3.4, using index scans for the subqueries in +the query: + + select count(*) from log_table where event_date between + '2003-04-01' and '2003-05-01'; + +Which is a Good Thing. + +>> 4. It's often necessary to expressly specify type information in +>> queries to get the optimizer to do the Right Thing. +> +> Especially for cases like this. It takes the safer route of not +> pushing things down when it's not sure if pushing down might change +> the semantics (for example if a union piece has a different type +> from the union output, simply pushing clauses down unchanged could +> change the results) +> +> Tom would probably be willing to relax conditions if it could be +> proven safe even for the wierd outlying cases with char and varchar +> and such. + +Evidently the dates of the form '2003-04-01' and such are getting +types promoted properly enough. I don't see anything to "lobby" for +at this point. + +The DOMAIN case I mentioned the other day had something odd going on +that LOST the type information associated with the domain. Albeit +that was on 7.3, whereas the changes in DOMAIN functionality that make +them meaningfully useful come in 7.4... +-- +let name="cbbrowne" and tld="libertyrms.info" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;; + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 12:51:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-admin-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75FECD1C4BF + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 15:51:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 51804-05 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:50:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pns.mm.eutelsat.org (pns.mm.eutelsat.org [194.214.173.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E347D1C4E6 + for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:51:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from nts-03.mm.eutelsat.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by pns.mm.eutelsat.org (8.11.6/linuxconf) with ESMTP id h71Freq19046; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:53:40 +0200 +Received: from gmendola (gmendola.mm.eutelsat.org [194.214.173.50]) + by nts-03.mm.eutelsat.org (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h71FkgR03996; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:46:42 +0200 +Message-ID: <006b01c35844$739ec030$32add6c2@mm.eutelsat.org> +From: "Mendola Gaetano" +To: +Cc: "\"HansH\"" +References: <00c101c35074$1e5f5b20$152aa8c0@GMENDOLA2> + +Subject: Re: Wrong plan or what ? +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:49:11 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/26 +X-Sequence-Number: 9749 + +""HansH"" +> In response to "Mendola Gaetano": +> > I'm running Postgres7.3.3 and I'm performing this simple select: +> +> Looking at your fast three step plan +> > SELECT id_class from class_default where id_provider = 39; +> > SELECT id_user from user_data where id_class in ( 48 ); +> > SELECT * from user_logs where id_user in ( +> > 10943, 10942, 10934, 10927, 10910, 10909 ); +> I'ld stem for reordering the from and where clauses alike: +> select * +> from +> class_default cd, +> user_data ud, +> user_logs ul +> where +> cd.id_provider = 39 and +> ud.id_class = cd.id_class and +> ul.id_user = ud.id_user; + + +still wrong: + +Hash Join (cost=267.10..32994.34 rows=41881 width=264) (actual +time=6620.17..6847.20 rows=94 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_user = "inner".id_user) + -> Seq Scan on user_logs ul (cost=0.00..25712.15 rows=1298315 width=48) +(actual time=0.01..5381.69 rows=1298351 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=266.25..266.25 rows=339 width=216) (actual +time=0.89..0.89 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..266.25 rows=339 width=216) (actual +time=0.16..0.83 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on class_default cd (cost=0.00..1.39 rows=1 +width=55) (actual time=0.08..0.09 rows=1 loops=1) + Filter: (id_provider = 39) + -> Index Scan using idx_user_data_class on user_data ud +(cost=0.00..260.00 rows=389 width=161) (actual time=0.06..0.40 rows=21 +loops=1) + Index Cond: (ud.id_class = "outer".id_class) + Total runtime: 6847.60 msec +(10 rows) + + +the returned are 94. + + +> Personally I dislike implied joins and rather go for _about_ this: +> select * +> from +> ( class_default cd +> LEFT JOIN user_data ud ON ud.id_class = cd.id_class ) +> LEFT JOIN user_logs ul ON ul.id_user = ud.id_user, +> where +> cd.id_provider = 39; + +worst: + + Merge Join (cost=280.48..55717.14 rows=41881 width=264) (actual +time=18113.64..18182.94 rows=105 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".id_user = "inner".id_user) + -> Index Scan using idx_user_user_logs on user_logs ul +(cost=0.00..51665.66 rows=1298315 width=48) (actual time=10.78..15459.37 +rows=1298354 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=280.48..281.33 rows=339 width=216) (actual +time=1.11..1.20 rows=105 loops=1) + Sort Key: ud.id_user + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..266.25 rows=339 width=216) (actual +time=0.14..0.82 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on class_default cd (cost=0.00..1.39 rows=1 +width=55) (actual time=0.07..0.07 rows=1 loops=1) + Filter: (id_provider = 39) + -> Index Scan using idx_user_data_class on user_data ud +(cost=0.00..260.00 rows=389 width=161) (actual time=0.05..0.39 rows=21 +loops=1) + Index Cond: (ud.id_class = "outer".id_class) + Total runtime: 18185.61 msec + +:-( + + + +thank you anyway. + +Gaetano + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 13:08:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D192D1C7F3 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:06:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 53459-08 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:05:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCF5D1C952 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:06:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) + by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h71G6i0H031778 + for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:06:44 -0400 +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:08:18 -0400 (EDT) +From: Francisco Reyes +X-X-Sender: fran@zoraida.natserv.net +To: PostgreSQL performance +Subject: How number of columns affects performance +Message-ID: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/6 +X-Sequence-Number: 2823 + +If a table which will be heavily used has numerous fields, yet only a +handfull of them will be used heavily, would it make sense performance wise to split it? + +Example +Table 1 +Field 1 +.... +Field 100 + +Table 2 +References Field 1 of table1 +..... + +Table n +References Field 1 of table 1 + +So table 1 basically will be referenced by many tables and most of the +time only a handfull of fields of table 1 are needed. Don't have exact +numbers, but let's say that more than 60% of queries to table 1 queries +only use 20 fields or less. + +If I split Table 1 then the second table will basically be a 1 to 1 to +Table 1. + +I have this simmilar scenario for two tables. One is close to 1 Million +records and the other is about 300,000 records. + +Programming wise it is much easier to only have one table, but I am just +concerned about performance. + +Most access to these tables will be indexed with some occassional +sequential scans. Number of concurrent users now is probably 10 or less. +Expect to grow to 20+ concurrent connections. Will this be more of an +issue if I had hundreds/thousands of users? + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 13:34:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52A2D1C50C + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:34:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 55583-06 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:33:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1CDAD1C4E6 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:34:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030801163449.FJUT23518.lakemtao03.cox.net@[192.168.1.1]> + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:34:49 -0400 +Subject: Re: How number of columns affects performance +From: Ron Johnson +To: PostgreSQL performance +In-Reply-To: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1059755687.7508.638.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 01 Aug 2003 11:34:48 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/7 +X-Sequence-Number: 2824 + +On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 11:08, Francisco Reyes wrote: +> If a table which will be heavily used has numerous fields, yet only a +> handfull of them will be used heavily, would it make sense performance wise to split it? +> +> Example +> Table 1 +> Field 1 +> .... +> Field 100 +> +> Table 2 +> References Field 1 of table1 +> ..... +> +> Table n +> References Field 1 of table 1 +> +> So table 1 basically will be referenced by many tables and most of the +> time only a handfull of fields of table 1 are needed. Don't have exact +> numbers, but let's say that more than 60% of queries to table 1 queries +> only use 20 fields or less. +> +> If I split Table 1 then the second table will basically be a 1 to 1 to +> Table 1. + +Do all 100 fields *really* all refer to the same *one* entity, +with no repeating values, etc? +If not, then good design says to split the table. + +Also, if it's a high-activity table, but you only rarely need fields +60-90, then splitting them out to their own table might be useful +(especially if some of those fields are large *CHAR or TEXT). + +> I have this simmilar scenario for two tables. One is close to 1 Million +> records and the other is about 300,000 records. +> +> Programming wise it is much easier to only have one table, but I am just +> concerned about performance. +> +> Most access to these tables will be indexed with some occassional +> sequential scans. Number of concurrent users now is probably 10 or less. +> Expect to grow to 20+ concurrent connections. Will this be more of an +> issue if I had hundreds/thousands of users? +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command +> (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org) +-- ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian | +| because I hate vegetables!" | +| unknown | ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 13:51:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE74FD1C50C + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:51:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 54479-08 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:50:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21DFD1C4E6 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:51:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h71GpXQ3016389; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:51:33 -0400 (EDT) +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: Stephan Szabo , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Views With Unions +In-reply-to: <60vfthl6q6.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +References: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> + <60vfthl6q6.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +Comments: In-reply-to Christopher Browne + message dated "Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:48:01 -0400" +Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 12:51:33 -0400 +Message-ID: <16388.1059756693@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/8 +X-Sequence-Number: 2825 + +Christopher Browne writes: +> The DOMAIN case I mentioned the other day had something odd going on +> that LOST the type information associated with the domain. Albeit +> that was on 7.3, whereas the changes in DOMAIN functionality that make +> them meaningfully useful come in 7.4... + +Domains were a work-in-progress in 7.3, and to some extent still are. +Please try to test out 7.4beta and let us know about deficiencies you +find. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 14:13:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B472FD1C50C + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:13:21 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58327-01 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:12:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7377AD1C4E6 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:13:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) + by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h71HDJ0H015806; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:13:19 -0400 +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:14:53 -0400 (EDT) +From: Francisco J Reyes +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: PostgreSQL performance +Subject: Re: How number of columns affects performance +In-Reply-To: <1059755687.7508.638.camel@haggis> +Message-ID: <20030801130507.M93127@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059755687.7508.638.camel@haggis> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/9 +X-Sequence-Number: 2826 + +On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Ron Johnson wrote: + +> Do all 100 fields *really* all refer to the same *one* entity, +> with no repeating values, etc? + +Yes all fields belong to the same entity. I used 100 as an example it may +be something like 60 to 80 fields (there are two tables in question). I +don't formally do 3rd normal form, but for the most part I do most of +the general concepts of normalization. + +> If not, then good design says to split the table. + +The original data was in Foxpro tables and I have made better normalized +tables in PostgreSQL. + + +> Also, if it's a high-activity table, but you only rarely need fields +> 60-90, then splitting them out to their own table might be useful +> (especially if some of those fields are large *CHAR or TEXT). + +Yes some of the fields are varchars. 5 fields are varchar(22) and 3 longer +(35, 58, 70). The total row length is a little over 400 characters in +Foxpro. In postgreSQL may be less than 300 (ie Foxpro uses ASCII +representation for numbers so to store "1234567" it uses 7 bytes, whereas +in PostgreSQL I can just make it an int and use 4 bytes) + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 17:13:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD4FD1C510 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:25:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 57036-08 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:24:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EBA3D1C4E6 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:25:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) + by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h71HPC0H018344; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:25:12 -0400 +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:26:47 -0400 (EDT) +From: Francisco J Reyes +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Christopher Browne , + Stephan Szabo , + pgsql General List +Subject: Domains (Was [PERFORM] Views With Unions) +In-Reply-To: <16388.1059756693@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Message-ID: <20030801131642.Q93127@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> + <60vfthl6q6.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <16388.1059756693@sss.pgh.pa.us> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/57 +X-Sequence-Number: 46474 + +On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: + +> Domains were a work-in-progress in 7.3, and to some extent still are. +> Please try to test out 7.4beta and let us know about deficiencies you +> find. + +Are domains user defined types? That they seem to be based on what I see +on the docs. + +Any drawbacks to using them? + +Right now I have a new database I am making and wanted some consistency +accros some tables. Currently I used inheritance to enforce the consitency +since a good number of fields needed to be common among the tables AND the +inheritted tables are basically a supperset of the data, so some times I +would want to access the inheritted tables and other times the parent/main +table. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 14:32:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A03D1C510 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:32:14 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 56361-08 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:31:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5CDD1C4E6 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:32:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030801173213.EBHJ24359.lakemtao02.cox.net@[192.168.1.1]> + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 13:32:13 -0400 +Subject: Re: How number of columns affects performance +From: Ron Johnson +To: PostgreSQL performance +In-Reply-To: <20030801130507.M93127@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059755687.7508.638.camel@haggis> + <20030801130507.M93127@zoraida.natserv.net> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1059759132.22384.5.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 01 Aug 2003 12:32:13 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/10 +X-Sequence-Number: 2827 + +On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 12:14, Francisco J Reyes wrote: +> On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Ron Johnson wrote: +> +> > Do all 100 fields *really* all refer to the same *one* entity, +> > with no repeating values, etc? +> +> Yes all fields belong to the same entity. I used 100 as an example it may +> be something like 60 to 80 fields (there are two tables in question). I +> don't formally do 3rd normal form, but for the most part I do most of +> the general concepts of normalization. + +Woo hoo!! + +> Yes some of the fields are varchars. 5 fields are varchar(22) and 3 longer +> (35, 58, 70). The total row length is a little over 400 characters in +> Foxpro. In postgreSQL may be less than 300 (ie Foxpro uses ASCII +> representation for numbers so to store "1234567" it uses 7 bytes, whereas +> in PostgreSQL I can just make it an int and use 4 bytes) + +But I'd only split if these big field are rarely used. Note that +VARCHAR(xx) removes trailing spaces, so that also is a factor. + +-- ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian | +| because I hate vegetables!" | +| unknown | ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 14:45:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0EBAD1C4E6 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:45:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 57500-10 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:44:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (209-128-84-228.bayarea.net + [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EDC7D1C4BF + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:45:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3368147; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 10:45:53 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Francisco J Reyes , Ron Johnson +Subject: Re: How number of columns affects performance +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:44:03 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: PostgreSQL performance +References: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059755687.7508.638.camel@haggis> + <20030801130507.M93127@zoraida.natserv.net> +In-Reply-To: <20030801130507.M93127@zoraida.natserv.net> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308011044.03493.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/11 +X-Sequence-Number: 2828 + +Francisco, + +> Yes all fields belong to the same entity. I used 100 as an example it may +> be something like 60 to 80 fields (there are two tables in question). I +> don't formally do 3rd normal form, but for the most part I do most of +> the general concepts of normalization. +> +> > If not, then good design says to split the table. + +Actually, no, it doesn't. If all 60-80 fields are unitary and required +characteristics of the row-entity, normalization says keep them in one table. + +The only time NF would recommend splitting the table is for fields which are +frequenly NULL for reasons other than missing data entry. For those, you'd +create a child table. Although while this is good 4NF, it's impractical in +PostgreSQL, where queries with several LEFT OUTER JOINs tend to be very slow +indeed. + +My attitude toward these normalization vs. performance issues is consistenly +the same: First, verify that you have a problem. That is, build the +database with everything in one table (or with child tables for Nullable +fields, as above) and try to run your application. If performance is +appalling, *then* take denormalization steps to improve it. + +I'm frequently distressed by the number of developers who make questionable +design decisions "for performance reasons" without every verifying that they +were, in fact, improving performance ... + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 17:21:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id E0B97D1C92D; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:56:55 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 58951-04; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:55:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.osdl.org (fw.osdl.org [65.172.181.6]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 22CD3D1C7F3; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:56:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ibm-a.pdx.osdl.net (ibm-a.pdx.osdl.net [172.20.1.50]) + by mail.osdl.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h71HuoI06633; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:56:50 -0700 +Subject: OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is available on PostgreSQL +From: Jenny Zhang +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Cc: osdldbt-general@lists.sourceforge.net +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 +Date: 01 Aug 2003 11:04:10 -0700 +Message-Id: <1059761051.1535.396.camel@ibm-a> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/60 +X-Sequence-Number: 46477 + +OSDL has ported OSDL Database Test Suite 3(OSDL-DBT3) to PostgreSQL. +It drives the database with an ad-hoc decision support workload. It +helps database developers and users to identify database performance +issues. + +OSDL-DBT3 is derived from TPC-H benchmark. TPC-H is an ad-hoc decision +support benchmark. It has 22 complicated queries doing a lot of +table/index scanning, sorting and grouping by. Details about TPC-H can +be found at: http://www.tpc.org/tpch/ + +Though OSDL-DBT3 is based on TPC-H, it deviates from TPC-H +significantly. It skipped many of the requirements for audit purpose, +as well as added flexibility. OSDL-DBT3 performance test results are +not comparable to TPC-H results. + +OSDL-DBT3 tarball can be downloaded from: +http://sourceforge.net/projects/osdldbt/ +The source can be downloaded from source forge cvs tree and osdl bk tree +http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/osdldbt/dbt3/ +bk://developer.osdl.org/dbt3 + +OSDL-DBT3 is also implemented on OSDL Scalable Test Platform(STP). The +platform provides a framework where users run a set of performance and +scalability tests on various hardware platforms. Currently, OSDL-DBT3 +is running against PostgreSQL 7.3.3 only. We plan to improve it so that +it can run against PostgreSQL patches. To find more information about +STP, visit: http://www.osdl.org/stp/. + +A sample OSDL-DBT3 test result report can be found at: +http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/ + +Your comments are welcome, +Regards, +Jenny +-- +Jenny Zhang +Open Source Development Lab Inc +12725 SW Millikan Way +Suite 400 +Beaverton, OR 97005 +(503)626-2455 ext 31 + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 15:59:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 12104D1C4E6; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:59:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 62699-05; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 15:58:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (209-128-84-228.bayarea.net + [209.128.84.228]) by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id EB4E5D1C4D5; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 15:59:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3368411; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:59:34 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Jenny Zhang , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, + pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is available on PostgreSQL +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:57:44 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: osdldbt-general@lists.sourceforge.net +References: <1059761051.1535.396.camel@ibm-a> +In-Reply-To: <1059761051.1535.396.camel@ibm-a> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308011157.44228.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/54 +X-Sequence-Number: 46471 + +Jenny, + +> OSDL has ported OSDL Database Test Suite 3(OSDL-DBT3) to PostgreSQL. +> It drives the database with an ad-hoc decision support workload. It +> helps database developers and users to identify database performance +> issues. + +Way, way, cool! We've been waiting for something like this eagerly. I +really look forward to trying it out. + +Further, OSDL-DBT3 can hopefully serve as the kernel of our internal +performance option testing suite. We'll evaluate very soon. + +Thanks so much for your hard work! + +-- +Josh Berkus +PostgreSQL Core Team +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 16:19:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56F0D1C9EC + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 19:19:21 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65981-02 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:18:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB0DD1C9EE + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:19:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030801191922.GYEW23518.lakemtao03.cox.net@[192.168.1.1]> + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 15:19:22 -0400 +Subject: Re: How number of columns affects performance +From: Ron Johnson +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <200308011044.03493.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059755687.7508.638.camel@haggis> + <20030801130507.M93127@zoraida.natserv.net> + <200308011044.03493.josh@agliodbs.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1059765560.22384.67.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 01 Aug 2003 14:19:20 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/14 +X-Sequence-Number: 2831 + +On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 12:44, Josh Berkus wrote: +> Francisco, +> +> > Yes all fields belong to the same entity. I used 100 as an example it may +> > be something like 60 to 80 fields (there are two tables in question). I +> > don't formally do 3rd normal form, but for the most part I do most of +> > the general concepts of normalization. +> > +> > > If not, then good design says to split the table. +> +> Actually, no, it doesn't. If all 60-80 fields are unitary and required +> characteristics of the row-entity, normalization says keep them in one table. + +You snipped out too much, because that's exactly what I said... +Another way of writing it: only split the table if some of the fields +are not unitary to the entity. + +> The only time NF would recommend splitting the table is for fields which are +> frequenly NULL for reasons other than missing data entry. For those, you'd +> create a child table. Although while this is good 4NF, it's impractical in +> PostgreSQL, where queries with several LEFT OUTER JOINs tend to be very slow +> indeed. + +Good to know. + +> My attitude toward these normalization vs. performance issues is consistenly +> the same: First, verify that you have a problem. That is, build the +> database with everything in one table (or with child tables for Nullable +> fields, as above) and try to run your application. If performance is +> appalling, *then* take denormalization steps to improve it. + +The OP was not talking about denormalizing ... + +It was: will vertically partitioning a table increase performance. +And the answer is "sometimes", + +-- ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian | +| because I hate vegetables!" | +| unknown | ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 16:23:15 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A72F6D1C9EC + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 19:23:13 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66782-01 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:22:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (209-128-84-228.bayarea.net + [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4318D1C9ED + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:23:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3368496; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 12:23:33 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Ron Johnson , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How number of columns affects performance +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:21:43 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> + <200308011044.03493.josh@agliodbs.com> + <1059765560.22384.67.camel@haggis> +In-Reply-To: <1059765560.22384.67.camel@haggis> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308011221.43159.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/15 +X-Sequence-Number: 2832 + +Ron, + +> You snipped out too much, because that's exactly what I said... +> Another way of writing it: only split the table if some of the fields +> are not unitary to the entity. + +Sorry! No offense meant. + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 17:54:36 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675DED1C50C + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 20:54:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 70710-05 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:53:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4778DD1C4BD + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:54:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) + by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h71KsW0H016077; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:54:32 -0400 +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:56:08 -0400 (EDT) +From: Francisco J Reyes +To: Josh Berkus +Cc: Ron Johnson , + PostgreSQL performance +Subject: Re: How number of columns affects performance +In-Reply-To: <200308011044.03493.josh@agliodbs.com> +Message-ID: <20030801163346.V49062@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059755687.7508.638.camel@haggis> + <20030801130507.M93127@zoraida.natserv.net> + <200308011044.03493.josh@agliodbs.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/16 +X-Sequence-Number: 2833 + +On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: + +> My attitude toward these normalization vs. performance issues is consistenly +> the same: First, verify that you have a problem. That is, build the +> database with everything in one table (or with child tables for Nullable +> fields, as above) and try to run your application. If performance is +> appalling, *then* take denormalization steps to improve it. + +I think I understand your point, however it would be very laborious after +you do all development to find out you need to de-normalize. + +On your experience at which point it would actually help to do this +de-normalization in PostgreSQL? I know there are numerous factors ,but any +feedback based on previous experiences would help. + +Right now the work I am doing is only for company internal use. If I was +to ever do work that outside users would have access to then I would be +looking at 100+ concurrent users. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 18:17:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223D6D1C9ED + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 21:17:29 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 70665-09 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:16:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from claxson.com (mx7.claxson.com [200.32.96.144]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F534D1C92D + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:17:26 -0300 (ADT) +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C35872.4952213A" +Subject: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:17:17 -0300 +Message-ID: + +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNYckHRvPJxrmWXRXqaBiKh3GPsIA== +From: "Fernando Papa" +To: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/17 +X-Sequence-Number: 2834 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------_=_NextPart_001_01C35872.4952213A +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +=20 +Hi all! +Really I don't know what happened with this query. I'm running PG 7.3.1 +on solaris, vaccumed (full) every nigth. +The cardinality of each table was: +=20 +cont_contenido: 97 rows +juegos_config: 40 rows +cont_publicacion: 446 rows +not huge tables... +=20 +however, this query took a lot of time to run: Total runtime: 432478.44 +msec +I made a explain analyze, but really I don't undertand why... +=20 +esdc=3D> explain analyze +SELECT + cont_contenido.id_contenido + ,cont_contenido.pertenece_premium + ,cont_contenido.Titulo_esp as v_sufix=20 + ,cont_contenido.url_contenido + ,cont_contenido.tipo_acceso + ,cont_contenido.id_sbc + ,cont_contenido.cant_vistos + ,cont_contenido.cant_votos=20 + ,cont_contenido.puntaje_total=20 + ,cont_contenido.id_contenido_padre=20 + ,juegos_config.imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,juegos_config.info_general_esp as info_general=20 + ,juegos_config.ayuda=20 + ,juegos_config.tips_tricks_esp as tips_tricks=20 + ,juegos_config.mod_imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion=20 + ,cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla=20 + FROM=20 + cont_contenido=20=20=20 + ,juegos_config=20=20=20=20 + ,cont_publicacion=20 +WHERE=20 + cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_sbc =3D 619 + AND cont_contenido.id_tipo =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D juegos_config.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_contenido.id_contenido =3D juegos_config.id_contenido=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20 + AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S' + AND cont_publicacion.id_instalacion =3D cont_contenido.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_publicacion.id_contenido =3D cont_contenido.id_contenido=20 + AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT +max(cp1.fecha_publicacion)=20 + FROM cont_publicacion cp1=20=20 + WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D +cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 + AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido + + AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D +cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla)=20=20=20=20=20 + ORDER BY cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion desc=20 + LIMIT 10 + OFFSET 0 +esdc->; +=20 +QUERY PLAN + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +--------- + Limit (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual +time=3D432473.69..432473.72 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual +time=3D432473.67..432473.68 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D8.69..8.71 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual +time=3D197393.80..432471.92 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D +"inner".id_instalacion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D +"inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..281713.36 rows=3D1 width=3D36= +7) +(actual time=3D7524.66..432454.11 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D +"outer".id_contenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D +"outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.39..7.81 rows= +=3D40 +loops=3D1) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion +(cost=3D0.00..7042.51 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual time=3D23.64..10807.83 +rows=3D96 loops=3D40) + Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D +'S'::text) AND (fecha_publicacion =3D (subplan))) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=3D15.79..15.79 rows=3D1 +width=3D8) (actual time=3D24.16..24.16 rows=3D1 loops=3D17800) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1 +(cost=3D0.00..15.79 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actual time=3D10.14..24.01 rows=3D7 +loops=3D17800) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D $0) +AND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar_vainilla =3D $2)) + -> Sort (cost=3D8.69..8.70 rows=3D3 width=3D111) (actual +time=3D11.14..11.18 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, +cont_contenido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..8.66 +rows=3D3 width=3D111) (actual time=3D0.57..8.62 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND +(id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 432478.44 msec +(19 rows) +=20 +esdc=3D>=20 +=20 +=20 + +If I replace the subquery with a fixed date +=20 +"AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D '17/01/2003'::timestamp" + +=20 +QUERY PLAN + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +---------------- + Limit (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D797.26..797= +.26 +rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual +time=3D797.25..797.25 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D8.69..8.71 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual +time=3D796.45..796.45 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D +"inner".id_instalacion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D +"inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..644.29 rows=3D1 width=3D367) +(actual time=3D796.44..796.44 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D +"outer".id_contenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D +"outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.23..6.71 rows= +=3D40 +loops=3D1) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion (cost=3D0.00..15.79 +rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual time=3D19.70..19.70 rows=3D0 loops=3D40) + Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D +'S'::text) AND (fecha_publicacion =3D '17/01/2003 00:00:00'::timestamp +without time zone)) + -> Sort (cost=3D8.69..8.70 rows=3D3 width=3D111) (never +executed) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, +cont_contenido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..8.66 +rows=3D3 width=3D111) (never executed) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND +(id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 798.79 msec +=20 +run very smooth. +=20 +I have another query similar to this query (include more tables, but +have the same subquery) but I don't have any problems. +=20 +Somebody can help me with this mess? Thanks in advance!!! +=20 +Fernando.- + +------_=_NextPart_001_01C35872.4952213A +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + +Mensaje + + + +
 
+
Hi=20 +all!
+
Really I = +don't know=20 +what happened with this query. I'm running PG 7.3.1 on solaris, vaccumed (f= +ull)=20 +every nigth.
+
The cardi= +nality of=20 +each table was:
+
 
+
cont_contenido: 97 rows
+
juegos_config: 40 rows
+
cont_publicacion: 446 rows
+
not huge= +=20 +tables...
+
 = +
+
however, = +this query=20 +took a lot of time to run:  Total runtime: 432478.44 msec
I ma= +de a=20 +explain analyze, but really I don't undertand=20 +why...
 +
 
+
esdc=3D> explain analyze
SELECT
&= +nbsp;=20 +cont_contenido.id_contenido
 ,cont_contenido.pertenece_premium
&= +nbsp;,cont_contenido.Titulo_esp=20 +as v_sufix=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.url_contenido
 ,cont_contenido.tipo_acces= +o
 ,cont_contenido.id_sbc
 ,cont_contenido.cant_vistos
&= +nbsp;,cont_contenido.cant_votos=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.puntaje_total=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.id_contenido_padre=20 +
 ,juegos_config.imagen_tapa_especial=20 +
 ,juegos_config.info_general_esp as info_general=20 +
 ,juegos_config.ayuda
 ,juegos_config.tips_tricks_esp as= +=20 +tips_tricks
 ,juegos_config.mod_imagen_tapa_especial=20 +
 ,cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion=20 +
 ,cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla
 FROM=20 +
 cont_contenido  
 ,juegos_config  &n= +bsp;=20 +
 ,cont_publicacion
WHERE=20 +
 cont_contenido.id_instalacion      = + =20 +=3D 2
 AND=20 +cont_contenido.id_sbc         = + =20 +=3D 619
 AND=20 +cont_contenido.id_tipo         = +; =20 +=3D 2
 AND cont_contenido.id_instalacion  =3D=20 +juegos_config.id_instalacion
 AND=20 +cont_contenido.id_contenido   =3D=20 +juegos_config.id_contenido        = +=20 +
 AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S'
 AND= +=20 +cont_publicacion.id_instalacion =3D cont_contenido.id_instalacion
 = +;AND=20 +cont_publicacion.id_contenido =3D cont_contenido.id_contenido
 AND= +=20 +cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion)= +=20 +
            = +;     =20 +FROM cont_publicacion cp1 =20 +
            = +;     =20 +WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 +
            = +;       =20 +AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido =20 +
            = +;       =20 +AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D=20 +cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla)    
 ORDER= +=20 +BY  cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion desc
 LIMIT=20 +10
 OFFSET=20 +0
esdc->;
         &n= +bsp;            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;            &n= +bsp;          =20 +QUERY=20 +PLAN            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;         =20 +
-----------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +-------
 Limit =20 +(cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D432473.69..432473.7= +2 rows=3D8=20 +loops=3D1)
   ->  Sort  (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows= +=3D1=20 +width=3D478) (actual time=3D432473.67..432473.68 rows=3D8=20 +loops=3D1)
         Sort Key:=20 +cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion
      &= +nbsp; =20 +->  Merge Join  (cost=3D8.69..8.71 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actu= +al=20 +time=3D197393.80..432471.92 rows=3D8=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;   =20 +Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instalacion) AND=20 +("outer".id_contenido =3D=20 +"inner".id_contenido))
        &= +nbsp;     =20 +->  Nested Loop  (cost=3D0.00..281713.36 rows=3D1 width=3D367)= + (actual=20 +time=3D7524.66..432454.11 rows=3D40=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;         =20 +Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_contenido) AND=20 +("inner".id_instalacion =3D=20 +"outer".id_instalacion))
        = +;            = +=20 +->  Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config =20 +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.39..7.81 rows= +=3D40=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;         =20 +->  Seq Scan on cont_publicacion  (cost=3D0.00..7042.51 rows= +=3D1=20 +width=3D35) (actual time=3D23.64..10807.83 rows=3D96=20 +loops=3D40)
          = +            &nb= +sp;   =20 +Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D 'S'::text) AND (fecha_publica= +cion =3D=20 +(subplan)))
          = +            &nb= +sp;   =20 +SubPlan
          &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;    =20 +->  Aggregate  (cost=3D15.79..15.79 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actua= +l=20 +time=3D24.16..24.16 rows=3D1=20 +loops=3D17800)
         &nb= +sp;            = +            =20 +->  Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1  (cost=3D0.00..15.79 rows= +=3D1=20 +width=3D8) (actual time=3D10.14..24.01 rows=3D7=20 +loops=3D17800)
         &nb= +sp;            = +            &nb= +sp;     =20 +Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D $0) AND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar_vai= +nilla =3D=20 +$2))
           &= +nbsp;  =20 +->  Sort  (cost=3D8.69..8.70 rows=3D3 width=3D111) (actual=20 +time=3D11.14..11.18 rows=3D8=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;         =20 +Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion,=20 +cont_contenido.id_contenido
       &n= +bsp;            = +;=20 +->  Seq Scan on cont_contenido  (cost=3D0.00..8.66 rows=3D3 wi= +dth=3D111)=20 +(actual time=3D0.57..8.62 rows=3D8=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;   =20 +Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND = +(id_tipo=20 +=3D 2::numeric))
 Total runtime: 432478.44 msec
(19 rows)= +
+
 
+
esdc=3D>
+
 
+
 
+

If I replace the subquery with a fixed=20 +date
+
 
+
"AND=20 +cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D=20 +'17/01/2003'::timestamp"
+
        = +            &nb= +sp;            = +            &nb= +sp;            = +            &nb= +sp;   =20 +QUERY=20 +PLAN            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;            = +=20 +
-----------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +--------------
 Limit =20 +(cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D797.26..797.26 rows= +=3D0=20 +loops=3D1)
   ->  Sort  (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows= +=3D1=20 +width=3D478) (actual time=3D797.25..797.25 rows=3D0=20 +loops=3D1)
         Sort Key:=20 +cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion
      &= +nbsp; =20 +->  Merge Join  (cost=3D8.69..8.71 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actu= +al=20 +time=3D796.45..796.45 rows=3D0=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;   =20 +Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instalacion) AND=20 +("outer".id_contenido =3D=20 +"inner".id_contenido))
        &= +nbsp;     =20 +->  Nested Loop  (cost=3D0.00..644.29 rows=3D1 width=3D367) (a= +ctual=20 +time=3D796.44..796.44 rows=3D0=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;         =20 +Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_contenido) AND=20 +("inner".id_instalacion =3D=20 +"outer".id_instalacion))
        = +;            = +=20 +->  Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config =20 +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.23..6.71 rows= +=3D40=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;         =20 +->  Seq Scan on cont_publicacion  (cost=3D0.00..15.79 rows=3D1= +=20 +width=3D35) (actual time=3D19.70..19.70 rows=3D0=20 +loops=3D40)
          = +            &nb= +sp;   =20 +Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D 'S'::text) AND (fecha_publica= +cion =3D=20 +'17/01/2003 00:00:00'::timestamp without time=20 +zone))
           = +;   =20 +->  Sort  (cost=3D8.69..8.70 rows=3D3 width=3D111) (never=20 +executed)
          &n= +bsp;         =20 +Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion,=20 +cont_contenido.id_contenido
       &n= +bsp;            = +;=20 +->  Seq Scan on cont_contenido  (cost=3D0.00..8.66 rows=3D3 wi= +dth=3D111)=20 +(never=20 +executed)
          &n= +bsp;            = +;   =20 +Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND = +(id_tipo=20 +=3D 2::numeric))
 Total runtime: 798.79 msec
+
 
+
run very= +=20 +smooth.
+
 
+
I have an= +other query=20 +similar to this query (include more tables, but have the same subquery) but= + I=20 +don't have any problems.
+
 
+
Somebody = +can help me=20 +with this mess? Thanks in advance!!!
+
 
+
Fernando.-
+=00 +------_=_NextPart_001_01C35872.4952213A-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 18:19:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D460CD1C9F9 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 21:19:54 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71975-06 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:18:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (209-128-84-228.bayarea.net + [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3916D1C9F5 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:19:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3368865; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:20:15 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Francisco J Reyes +Subject: Re: How number of columns affects performance +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:18:51 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: Ron Johnson , + PostgreSQL performance +References: <20030801115257.I92555@zoraida.natserv.net> + <200308011044.03493.josh@agliodbs.com> + <20030801163346.V49062@zoraida.natserv.net> +In-Reply-To: <20030801163346.V49062@zoraida.natserv.net> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308011418.51572.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/18 +X-Sequence-Number: 2835 + +Francisco, + +> I think I understand your point, however it would be very laborious after +> you do all development to find out you need to de-normalize. + +Not terribly. Views and Rules are good for this. + +> On your experience at which point it would actually help to do this +> de-normalization in PostgreSQL? I know there are numerous factors ,but any +> feedback based on previous experiences would help. + +My experience? If you're running on good hardware, it's completely=20 +unnecessary to vertically partition the table. The only thing I'd do woul= +d=20 +be to look for columns which are frequently NULL and can be grouped togethe= +r,=20 +and spin those off into a sub-table. That is, if you have 4 columns which= +=20 +are generally either all null or all filled, and are all null for 70% of=20 +records then those 4 could make a nice child table. + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + +______AGLIO DATABASE SOLUTIONS___________________________ + Josh Berkus + Complete information technology josh@agliodbs.com + and data management solutions (415) 565-7293 + for law firms, small businesses fax 621-2533 + and non-profit organizations. San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 18:27:15 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA06D1C50C + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 21:27:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71879-08 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:26:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD2ED1C4DB + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:27:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from dev6.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.212] helo=libertyrms.info) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19ihQb-0003kl-00; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:27:09 -0400 +Received: by libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1079) + id E8875BBAD8; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:27:08 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Fernando Papa" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +From: Christopher Browne +Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:27:08 -0400 +Message-ID: <60u191jcgj.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/19 +X-Sequence-Number: 2836 + + +I'd point at the following as being a sterling candidate for being a +cause of this being slow... + +=A0AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publica= +cion)=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FROM cont_publicacion c= +p1=A0=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 WHERE cp1.id_instalacio= +n =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 AND cp1.id_conten= +ido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido=A0=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 AND cp1.generar_v= +ainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla)=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 + +May I suggest changing it to: + +=A0AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT cp1.fecha_publicacion +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FROM cont_publicacion c= +p1=A0=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 WHERE cp1.id_instalacio= +n =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 AND cp1.id_conten= +ido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido=A0=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 AND cp1.generar_v= +ainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla + ORDER BY fecha_publicacion LIMIT 1) + +That would get rid of the aggregate that's sitting deep in the query. +--=20 +select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'libertyrms.info'; + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 18:33:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06339D1CA07 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 21:32:56 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 70608-10 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:31:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (209-128-84-228.bayarea.net + [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04023D1C94D + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:32:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3368907; Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:33:16 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Christopher Browne , + "Fernando Papa" +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 14:31:52 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <60u191jcgj.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +In-Reply-To: <60u191jcgj.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308011431.52677.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/20 +X-Sequence-Number: 2837 + +Fernando, + +> AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publica= +cion)=20 +> FROM cont_publicacion cp1=20=20 +> WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instal= +acion=20 +> AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenid= +o=20=20 +> AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D=20 +cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla)=20=20=20=20=20 + +Or event changing it to: + +AND EXISTS (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) + FROM cont_publicacion cp1 + WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 + AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido=20=20 + AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla + HAVING max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) =3D cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion) +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 1 20:56:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A050D1C918 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 23:56:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 79636-09 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 20:55:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561DBD1C914 + for ; + Fri, 1 Aug 2003 20:56:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030801235632.HMVD24359.lakemtao02.cox.net@[192.168.1.1]> + for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2003 19:56:32 -0400 +Subject: Re: Domains (Was [PERFORM] Views With Unions) +From: Ron Johnson +To: pgsql General List +In-Reply-To: <20030801131642.Q93127@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> + <60vfthl6q6.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <16388.1059756693@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030801131642.Q93127@zoraida.natserv.net> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1059782193.22384.85.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 01 Aug 2003 18:56:33 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/74 +X-Sequence-Number: 46491 + +On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 12:26, Francisco J Reyes wrote: +> On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +[snip] +> accros some tables. Currently I used inheritance to enforce the consitency +> since a good number of fields needed to be common among the tables AND the +> inheritted tables are basically a supperset of the data, so some times I +> would want to access the inheritted tables and other times the parent/main +> table. + +Isn't this when you'd really want child tables, instead? + +-- ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian | +| because I hate vegetables!" | +| unknown | ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 2 07:37:10 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ABD1D1C509 + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:37:09 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 23070-01 + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:36:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.noos.fr (nan-smtp-08.noos.net [212.198.2.77]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4555D1C4E1 + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:37:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 22408602 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 2003 10:37:07 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO gmendola) ([212.198.37.110]) + (envelope-sender ) + by 212.198.2.77 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 2 Aug 2003 10:37:07 -0000 +Message-ID: <005701c358e1$e4b52af0$10d4a8c0@mm.eutelsat.org> +From: "Mendola Gaetano" +To: +Cc: "\"Fernando Papa\"" +References: + +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 12:36:12 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/21 +X-Sequence-Number: 2838 + +From: ""Fernando Papa"" + +> AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) = 'S' + + +> Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) = 'S'::text) AND +(fecha_publicacion = (subplan))) + +using a functional index on this field should help + +create index idx_generar_vainilla_ci on cont_publicacion ( +upper(generar_Vainilla) ) + + + +Regards +Gaetano Mendola + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 2 12:59:58 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAAC5D1C9ED + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 15:59:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 35626-05 + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 12:58:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from flake.decibel.org (unknown [66.143.173.58]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 665EBD1C9EA + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 12:59:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 9205 invoked by uid 1001); 2 Aug 2003 15:59:54 -0000 +Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:59:54 -0500 +From: "Jim C. Nasby" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Odd explain estimate +Message-ID: <20030802155954.GK55392@nasby.net> +References: <20030731195145.GD55392@nasby.net> + <20030731205921.GF16230@libertyrms.info> + <20030731225959.GH55392@nasby.net> + <20030801121612.GD18200@libertyrms.info> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <20030801121612.GD18200@libertyrms.info> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE i386 +X-Distributed: Join the Effort! http://www.distributed.net +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/22 +X-Sequence-Number: 2839 + +On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 08:16:12AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote: +> On Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 05:59:59PM -0500, Jim C. Nasby wrote: +> > +> > Well, if I don't do this it wants to seqscan a table that occupies 350k +> > pages, instead of pulling a couple thousand rows. I started running it +> > with the seqscan and it's already taken way longer than it does if I +> > disable seqscan. +> +> That was indeed the question. +> +> If it uses a seqscan when it ought not to do, then there's something +> wrong with the statistics, or you haven't vacuum analysed correctly, +> or your table needs vacuum full (is it really 350k pages, or is that +> mostly dead space?), &c. -- all the usual bad-seqscan candidates. +> +> enable_seqscan=off is probably not a good strategy for any moderately +> complicated query. If the planner were perfect, of course, you'd +> never need it at all. + +Set statistics on the ID colum to 1000, vacuum analyze, and it's good to +go now. Thanks for your help! +-- +Jim C. Nasby, Database Consultant jim@nasby.net +Member: Triangle Fraternity, Sports Car Club of America +Give your computer some brain candy! www.distributed.net Team #1828 + +Windows: "Where do you want to go today?" +Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" +FreeBSD: "Are you guys coming, or what?" + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 3 13:43:12 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4073D1C91F + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:20:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 42657-05 + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 15:19:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47A5D1C4E1 + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 15:20:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) + by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h72IKv0H019908; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 14:20:57 -0400 +Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 14:22:39 -0400 (EDT) +From: Francisco J Reyes +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: pgsql General List +Subject: Inheritance vs child tables (Was Domains) +In-Reply-To: <1059782193.22384.85.camel@haggis> +Message-ID: <20030802140600.G99004@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> + <60vfthl6q6.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <16388.1059756693@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030801131642.Q93127@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059782193.22384.85.camel@haggis> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/125 +X-Sequence-Number: 46542 + +On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Ron Johnson wrote: + +> On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 12:26, Francisco J Reyes wrote: +> > On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +> [snip] +> > Currently I used inheritance to enforce the consitency +> > since a good number of fields needed to be common among the tables AND the +> > inheritted tables are basically a supperset of the data, so some times I +> > would want to access the inheritted tables and other times the parent/main +> > table. +> +> Isn't this when you'd really want child tables, instead? + + +I think both ways can accomplish the same (if not very simmilar +functionality), however I find using inherittance easier. +Not really sure about efficiency though. + +A simple example of the type of design I am planning to do would be: + +Table A +Userid +date entered +last changed + + +Table B inherited from A(additional fields) +person name +birthday + +Table C inherited from A(additional fields) +book +isbn +comment + +I plan to keep track of how many records a user has so with inherittance +it's easy to do this. I can count for the user in Table A and find out how +many records he/she has or I can count in each of the inheritted tables +and see how many there are for that particular table. + +Inheritance makes it easier to see everything for a userid or just a +particular type of records. + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 2 18:50:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5E0D1C995 + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 21:50:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 52013-07 + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:49:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D413FD1C9DD + for ; + Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:50:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030802215034.OFBP24359.lakemtao02.cox.net@[192.168.1.1]> + for ; Sat, 2 Aug 2003 17:50:34 -0400 +Subject: Re: Inheritance vs child tables (Was Domains) +From: Ron Johnson +To: pgsql General List +In-Reply-To: <20030802140600.G99004@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> + <60vfthl6q6.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <16388.1059756693@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030801131642.Q93127@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059782193.22384.85.camel@haggis> + <20030802140600.G99004@zoraida.natserv.net> +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-h97oAXxMLvPOSyqbgYso" +Message-Id: <1059861033.24817.57.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 02 Aug 2003 16:50:33 -0500 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/113 +X-Sequence-Number: 46530 + +--=-h97oAXxMLvPOSyqbgYso +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 13:22, Francisco J Reyes wrote: +> On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Ron Johnson wrote: +> +> > On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 12:26, Francisco J Reyes wrote: +> > > On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +> > [snip] +> > > Currently I used inheritance to enforce the consitency +> > > since a good number of fields needed to be common among the tables AND the +> > > inheritted tables are basically a supperset of the data, so some times I +> > > would want to access the inheritted tables and other times the parent/main +> > > table. +> > +> > Isn't this when you'd really want child tables, instead? +> +> +> I think both ways can accomplish the same (if not very simmilar +> functionality), however I find using inherittance easier. +> Not really sure about efficiency though. +> +> A simple example of the type of design I am planning to do would be: +> +> Table A +> Userid +> date entered +> last changed +> +> +> Table B inherited from A(additional fields) +> person name +> birthday +> +> Table C inherited from A(additional fields) +> book +> isbn +> comment +> +> I plan to keep track of how many records a user has so with inherittance +> it's easy to do this. I can count for the user in Table A and find out how +> many records he/she has or I can count in each of the inheritted tables +> and see how many there are for that particular table. +> +> Inheritance makes it easier to see everything for a userid or just a +> particular type of records. + +But isn't this what LEFT OUTER JOIN is for? + +Attached is a zip of the sql and results of what I mean. + +Plain inner joins or LOJ with "WHERE {B|C}.whatever IS NOT NULL" +also pare things dawn. + +Of course, just yesterday, in a post on -general or -performance, +I read that LEFT OUTER JOIN isn't particularly efficient in PG. + +Also, wouldn't it be odd to have a userid without a name? So, +why isn't table_b combined with table_a? But all circumstances +are different, I guess... + +-- ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian | +| because I hate vegetables!" | +| unknown | ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ + + +--=-h97oAXxMLvPOSyqbgYso +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=oj_example.zip +Content-Type: application/zip; name=oj_example.zip +Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 + +UEsDBBQAAAAIAEuDAi9Yr/EqzAAAAEECAAANABUAb2pfdGFibGVzLnNxbFVU +CQADfSwsP4csLD9VeAQA6APoA61Quw7CMAzc/RWGqUhlgJWPqZzElAiaICcU ++vcYyqMVrwUPlnxn+84GJ3GPmcyO+1zRCl4w8wazKwArTJnH41jAIbF4h4/w +IXPNgiU4ba9YS+Erf6lL2FHKld1QqIfoXnxD0uGWOyz6lTOcvVc1n1V1EUuK +oQrU8JXIfMolGC9546i7t38WLWEdhX0dxlaE13pGsJyep/+wab/ZNDFucRC9 +TZ9MGKItiX5KisVSfRkbm0bfORpBnM9xemOm6BOSelXVVr97jOIm/7zyDFBL +AwQUAAAACABLhAIvhROVTecAAAC0AgAACgAVAG9qX3BvcC5zcWxVVAkAA14u +LD9yLiw/VXgEAOgD6AOt0UFrwyAUB/C7n8JbOpigRk3anDfa7TAYuw9NXtuA +NWBfy/btF0s2GhbCGD3J+8P78VdJAx4Q6DZ2B4rWeXivK/I7dFOhrQghbThC +RNoG7L5jerb+BEe6EPc0k5znjBdMqmy1aizCT1YyLobsrpp15I2c/NrR/3fU +tWPmnQnIjR7oqYOsP8TSGCYk42augxvd5TFCM+wWqQtXf9tN/dc2xs9huW8s +mSxnS9ej33jbA113zrV4IWSutCnKJRcyzQ8fNXgPAbPJIvXoEq+Apxjoy5Ym +9LkNuwupldGF0slN8yYg9FACvwBQSwMEFAAAAAgAa4UCL0jWTtp4AAAAywAA +AAsAFQBval90ZXN0LnNxbFVUCQADeTAsP4YwLD9VeAQA6APoA4WNsQ7CMBBD +93yFR0BVfgDxLdXd9SoCyR1K0oG/p4WKgQUvtiU/OTTNKh0UTwM4PrQ2t9Go +6FY51X6d6DlAIrvfN0+N7d3FS1HrYa5e0ImzjgRCwK6sc4cvXStunmyfMBhu +OFBcmtY04bL+fOLxDyqQX1S+6Dm8AFBLAwQUAAAACACNhQIvoRb9ZnQFAACW +FwAADgAVAG9qX3Jlc3VsdHMubGlzVVQJAAO5MCw/tjAsP1V4BADoA+gD5Vdt +b9s2EP6uX3FLC9hpLc+S31IXxZamyuq1TTrXw1AgQCDRtM1WFh2JTmLA2G/f +UaYkypFsNeuAAhOCyOQdH/LeHp5ISF1BQbier/5fu1A3VhEN2QTShwWCzmgI +DWOC6tcUhyGN5XLcMHw3Etdk7gYzfXYZsoUbruErXUN9C3kMxy+NZXTjD/iX +pnxZrQFcXI6HZ84A4GzknI4dGJ++fu/Az/BxNPxwOvoM75zPcMd8H8j2tGyx +9BlhAo81ofdQU+e+XuJGNZjyUNmTCGqGDmyQhzZ75TajGTSMeHAduAsaCwS9 +Fw3DY6GYT9x1ol5ucsPAI1E2C/KOCOkUnRgQGmWOL3NS/3s5yStzkleruGPh +HiJkM/RVPTqOkc8vR87wt4v4TGROyVcUHIwB2RcDj/OvoD3bGLDIC/TZWzfE +JAzrlo1O9whfLDBTc0sATBOOlOQIWAQuBgJ3vcXEvePh5Kf/KIR293uFkJSF +kNQq7vh9Qrigv87d2YxFg7+fwi0D/uVa0EjIvfMyeSgwXTCnug7IH5YxoT7F +Y0xDvkjy4KXxxnnv4D6tAqm3V+pqUhZgJKTvBE+jc+v6KwxW3WpAzW612mar +b9qd2mAQV28yd2K2LDWHURxefHJGY7D6VqcP1l5Y+3GwJwdg2zpstzLsiwOw +HR22VxW22yqE9XK+/Z3TGr6sF72eadlmq1eIZB1Aknaf4z2joPryoK1OIZR9 +AEra+tYNw7XCQuts0z4pxGoXYpFclMdzCm+55zERA9rtTrfXP3nRsmw5du4J +9X1kmFoeuXMAWRo8omIVBnA5BbnHOxbM4h26nV633+nKbeR4iMSIQDv4XcQv +LD1VbH9RH6kPCZdvJf1mu4l7CtzoI4/ELKSf/ngfk27oEsFuUZOGCxa4ftMA +Y7xeUqSSK8KXaySLuYiJYsIipA5vJRgPYvXIUIR7NY8V5tRfIuWIOUhwSb1u +MMmUfsmUECDeG/eDCFuK+UPtGUjW2x4KSz+GjeiCEe7L7TnQe0pWKLlZ0XCd +LruRopsVE2hG7IpXT3CZT4mAZzv8AeoO2kCu1dmA3uMYpnqem7lnZ6j2t3B1 +Rgs4kQxljSkdu4JOW9fpFut0dJ3erk69AyG/Qybf7wZPd4Pe/mwAkr6nxAXP +S+xHRkiv6Q1kxKCZdq5aylRFFbxmWVzCuoqqY6PermQY0Q1Tj95abCfTtmID +SRNRFvCDWaCFN+MM3RMadeAwZQ7NLw8ZQa7TCAGHig+Muv3AD1eTJLmTchjH +XcPRcuXh1d9UwqNYesb91SJQrpAFH//6wCdsyjAPjDJD8ybn2rhN+vWwgYAL +CFa+b+wWlxzGykauznKSoeyCaDRIzIn7INDbNU+ElKYtWJEPPKPcBV7sgm/y +QBUHFNufryrZmyrz9e+KPdZ7B60/Vx3rOxQRHiBLu3gQBHhq5bq7tGMdOefO +yLk4cz4lHk5Flxfw58c3sve7uITTs/EQJ/BP9VrpXJHHSZJ1pX4n0u+J2zeZ +6tb3aRYVhaCwGsujkYUi/+iBSekgi8qOsqEThPzewLsSIfHjY421KT8+4jgm +nx/lODshJT94SBWhus1nDfCaz7bz5pPc/QluI+29vFTjbo5ljgtVIF7h8u3P +itctDh95HZUOq91apTcypJla8XIrvbczpIp3YOntniE98qo8EFnw6VQAX8lk +/8JZkAVadm71gvAe/z/iu7d3A43TMnJTRPIjpsfDFvEq/3GfzxYtXnKYxKsB +pCmpVL4lXcbjpJnK51V6QXx7fh1YSoDsLiXp0uq5WZKSWjz/VQ+5d/i8XHR4 +eeVML0vwnYwtTOM0jyuXwUOQxzfH+wunrF6+savOymZ/dZUVVUU3pqX3D1BL +AQIXAxQAAAAIAEuDAi9Yr/EqzAAAAEECAAANAA0AAAAAAAEAAACkgQAAAABv +al90YWJsZXMuc3FsVVQFAAN9LCw/VXgAAFBLAQIXAxQAAAAIAEuEAi+FE5VN +5wAAALQCAAAKAA0AAAAAAAEAAACkgQwBAABval9wb3Auc3FsVVQFAANeLiw/ +VXgAAFBLAQIXAxQAAAAIAGuFAi9I1k7aeAAAAMsAAAALAA0AAAAAAAEAAACk +gTACAABval90ZXN0LnNxbFVUBQADeTAsP1V4AABQSwECFwMUAAAACACNhQIv +oRb9ZnQFAACWFwAADgANAAAAAAABAAAApIHmAgAAb2pfcmVzdWx0cy5saXNV +VAUAA7kwLD9VeAAAUEsFBgAAAAAEAAQAHAEAAJsIAAAAAA== + +--=-h97oAXxMLvPOSyqbgYso-- + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 3 04:10:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53219D1C9C7 + for ; + Sun, 3 Aug 2003 07:10:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 11034-08 + for ; + Sun, 3 Aug 2003 04:08:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53348D1C9C5 + for ; + Sun, 3 Aug 2003 04:09:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030803070951.TRHK23518.lakemtao03.cox.net@[192.168.1.1]> + for ; + Sun, 3 Aug 2003 03:09:51 -0400 +Subject: testing +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1059894590.24818.111.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 03 Aug 2003 02:09:51 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/23 +X-Sequence-Number: 2840 + + +-- ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian | +| because I hate vegetables!" | +| unknown | ++-----------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 3 13:44:52 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0649D1C4D5 + for ; + Sun, 3 Aug 2003 14:25:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33072-10 + for ; + Sun, 3 Aug 2003 11:24:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.acecape.com (mail1.acecape.com [66.114.74.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB3CD1C4BF + for ; + Sun, 3 Aug 2003 11:25:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from p65-147.acedsl.com (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) + by mail1.acecape.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h73EPM0H023829; + Sun, 3 Aug 2003 10:25:23 -0400 +Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 10:27:11 -0400 (EDT) +From: Francisco J Reyes +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: pgsql General List +Subject: Re: Inheritance vs child tables (Was Domains) +In-Reply-To: <1059861033.24817.57.camel@haggis> +Message-ID: <20030803093159.M47689@zoraida.natserv.net> +References: <20030801075335.D51229-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> + <60vfthl6q6.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <16388.1059756693@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030801131642.Q93127@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059782193.22384.85.camel@haggis> + <20030802140600.G99004@zoraida.natserv.net> + <1059861033.24817.57.camel@haggis> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/127 +X-Sequence-Number: 46544 + +On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Ron Johnson wrote: + +> > Inheritance makes it easier to see everything for a userid or just a +> > particular type of records. +> +> But isn't this what LEFT OUTER JOIN is for? + + +Yes but the more tables you have the more cumbersome it would become to do +with outer joins. +Imagine a parent table and 20 children tables. To get a count of all +records the user has I either have to do a nasty/ugly union or do 20 +counts and then add them (ie doing the separate counts and keeping +track of them with a language like PHP) + +> Of course, just yesterday, in a post on -general or -performance, +> I read that LEFT OUTER JOIN isn't particularly efficient in PG. + +And it's probably worse when many tables are involved. + + +> Also, wouldn't it be odd to have a userid without a name? So, +> why isn't table_b combined with table_a? + +I have a separate table with user information. +The main reason I thought of inherittance was because I need to do +accounting and keep track of how many records a user has for certain type +of data or in total. Inheritance makes this really easy. + +Table A, B and C are not combined because B, C and onward have totally +different type of data and they are not one to one. + +There are times when children tables make more sense like: + +*person table +-person id +-name +-address + +*phones +-person id +-phone type (ie fax, home, work) +-area +-phone + +*emails +-person id +-email type (home, work) +-email + +In my opinion a case like that is best handled with children tables. +Specially if there are only a couple of childre tables. + +On my case I have about 8 inherited tables and what I believe inheritance +does for me is: +* Easy way to count both a grand total or a table per inherited table. +* Easy to work with each inheritted table, which will be very often. +* Much simpler queries/reporting + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 11:09:58 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66637D1C9E7 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:33:48 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 13949-05 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:32:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from email02.aon.at (WARSL402PIP7.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.94]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CBFFED1C93E + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:33:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 414456 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2003 13:33:39 -0000 +Received: from m154p007.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO cantor) ([62.46.9.39]) + (envelope-sender ) + by qmail2rs.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 4 Aug 2003 13:33:39 -0000 +From: Manfred Koizar +To: Jenny Zhang +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, pgsql-general@postgresql.org, + osdldbt-general@lists.sourceforge.net +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is available on PostgreSQL +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:33:49 +0200 +Message-ID: +References: <1059761051.1535.396.camel@ibm-a> +In-Reply-To: <1059761051.1535.396.camel@ibm-a> +X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/143 +X-Sequence-Number: 46560 + +On 01 Aug 2003 11:04:10 -0700, Jenny Zhang wrote: +>A sample OSDL-DBT3 test result report can be found at: +>http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/ +> +>Your comments are welcome, + +| effective_cache_size | 1000 + +With 4GB of memory this is definitely too low and *can* (note that I +don't say *must*) lead the planner to wrong decisions. + +| shared_buffers | 15200 + +... looks reasonable. Did you test with other values? + +| sort_mem | 524288 + +This is a bit high, IMHO, but might be ok given that DBT3 is not run +with many concurrent sessions (right?). +http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/results/plot/vmstat_swap.png shows +some swapping activity towards the end of the run which could be +caused by a too high sort_mem setting. + +Servus + Manfred + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 11:15:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F38FD1C4E0 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:01:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 14442-05 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:00:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from claxson.com (unknown [200.32.96.144]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6539D1C9DB + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:01:38 -0300 (ADT) +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:01:41 -0300 +Message-ID: + +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNYc6x5l3i1iy2eT6qLNjc5/LeQqgCHOwzQ +From: "Fernando Papa" +To: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/26 +X-Sequence-Number: 2843 + + +Sorry Chris... a little slower... + +esdc=3D> EXPLAIN ANALYZE=20 +SELECT + cont_contenido.id_contenido + ,cont_contenido.pertenece_premium + ,cont_contenido.Titulo_esp as v_sufix=20 + ,cont_contenido.url_contenido + ,cont_contenido.tipo_acceso + ,cont_contenido.id_sbc + ,cont_contenido.cant_vistos + ,cont_contenido.cant_votos=20 + ,cont_contenido.puntaje_total=20 + ,cont_contenido.id_contenido_padre=20 + ,juegos_config.imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,juegos_config.info_general_esp as info_general=20 + ,juegos_config.ayuda=20 + ,juegos_config.tips_tricks_esp as tips_tricks=20 + ,juegos_config.mod_imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion=20 + ,cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla=20 +FROM=20 + cont_contenido=20=20=20 + ,juegos_config=20=20=20=20 + ,cont_publicacion=20 +WHERE=20 + cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_sbc =3D 619 + AND cont_contenido.id_tipo =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D juegos_config.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_contenido.id_contenido =3D juegos_config.id_contenido=20=20=20 + AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S' + AND cont_publicacion.id_instalacion =3D cont_contenido.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_publicacion.id_contenido =3D cont_contenido.id_contenido=20 + AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT cp1.fecha_publicacion + FROM cont_publicacion cp1 + WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion + AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido + AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla + ORDER BY fecha_publicacion LIMIT 1) +ORDER BY cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion desc=20 + LIMIT 10 + OFFSET 0 + ; + + Q= +UERY PLAN=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +--------- + Limit (cost=3D9.75..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual time=3D465085.25..= +465085.27 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.75..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual time=3D465085= +.23..465085.24 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual t= +ime=3D210743.83..465083.31 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instalac= +ion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D "inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..284756.79 rows=3D1 width=3D36= +7) (actual time=3D8319.87..464981.68 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_con= +tenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D "outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config (co= +st=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D52.93..142.31 rows= +=3D40 loops=3D1) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion (cost=3D0.00..7118.6= +0 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual time=3D51.79..11617.12 rows=3D97 loops=3D40) + Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D 'S= +'::text) AND (fecha_publicacion =3D (subplan))) + SubPlan + -> Limit (cost=3D15.85..15.85 rows=3D1 width= +=3D8) (actual time=3D25.86..25.86 rows=3D1 loops=3D17880) + -> Sort (cost=3D15.85..15.86 rows=3D1 = +width=3D8) (actual time=3D25.82..25.82 rows=3D2 loops=3D17880) + Sort Key: fecha_publicacion + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion c= +p1 (cost=3D0.00..15.84 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actual time=3D10.68..25.32 row= +s=3D7 loops=3D17880) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D= + $0) AND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar_vainilla =3D $2)) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual t= +ime=3D94.91..94.93 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, cont_contenid= +o.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..9.70 row= +s=3D3 width=3D112) (actual time=3D21.70..92.96 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (id= +_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 465088.66 msec +(21 rows) + + + +-----Mensaje original----- +De: Christopher Browne [mailto:cbbrowne@libertyrms.info]=20 +Enviado el: viernes, 01 de agosto de 2003 18:27 +Para: Fernando Papa +CC: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Asunto: Re: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec + + + +I'd point at the following as being a sterling candidate for being a cause = +of this being slow... + +=A0AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publica= +cion)=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FROM cont_publicacion c= +p1=A0=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 WHERE cp1.id_instalacio= +n =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 AND cp1.id_conten= +ido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido=A0=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 AND cp1.generar_v= +ainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla)=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 + +May I suggest changing it to: + +=A0AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT cp1.fecha_publicacion +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FROM cont_publicacion c= +p1=A0=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 WHERE cp1.id_instalacio= +n =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 AND cp1.id_conten= +ido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido=A0=20 +=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 AND cp1.generar_v= +ainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla + ORDER BY fecha_publicacion LIMIT 1) + +That would get rid of the aggregate that's sitting deep in the query. +--=20 +select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'libertyrms.info'; Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 11:14:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF13CD1C9EA + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:10:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 14442-08 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:09:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from email03.aon.at (WARSL402PIP6.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.93]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6550AD1C4BD + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:10:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 378542 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2003 14:10:08 -0000 +Received: from m154p007.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO cantor) ([62.46.9.39]) + (envelope-sender ) + by qmail3rs.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 4 Aug 2003 14:10:08 -0000 +From: Manfred Koizar +To: "Fernando Papa" +Cc: +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:10:18 +0200 +Message-ID: +References: + +In-Reply-To: + +X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/25 +X-Sequence-Number: 2842 + +On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:17:17 -0300, "Fernando Papa" +wrote: +> AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion = (SELECT +>max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) +> FROM cont_publicacion cp1 +> WHERE cp1.id_instalacion = +>cont_publicacion.id_instalacion +> AND cp1.id_contenido = cont_publicacion.id_contenido +> +> AND cp1.generar_vainilla = +>cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla) + +If certain uniqueness conditions are met, the Postgres specific +DISTINCT ON clause could help totally eliminating the subselect: + +SELECT DISTINCT ON ( + cp.id_instalacion, + cp.id_contenido, + cp.generar_vainilla, + cp.fecha_publicacion + ) + cc.id_contenido + ,cc.pertenece_premium + ,cc.Titulo_esp as v_sufix + ,cc.url_contenido + ,cc.tipo_acceso + ,cc.id_sbc + ,cc.cant_vistos + ,cc.cant_votos + ,cc.puntaje_total + ,cc.id_contenido_padre + ,jc.imagen_tapa_especial + ,jc.info_general_esp as info_general + ,jc.ayuda + ,jc.tips_tricks_esp as tips_tricks + ,jc.mod_imagen_tapa_especial + ,cp.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion + ,cp.generar_Vainilla + FROM + cont_contenido cc + ,juegos_config jc + ,cont_publicacion cp +WHERE + cc.id_instalacion = 2 + AND cc.id_sbc = 619 + AND cc.id_tipo = 2 + AND cc.id_instalacion = jc.id_instalacion + AND cc.id_contenido = jc.id_contenido + AND upper(cp.generar_Vainilla) = 'S' + AND cp.id_instalacion = cc.id_instalacion + AND cp.id_contenido = cc.id_contenido + ORDER BY + cp.id_instalacion, + cp.id_contenido, + cp.generar_vainilla, + cp.fecha_publicacion desc + +However, this doesn't get the result in the original order, so you +have to wrap another SELECT ... ORDER BY ... LIMIT around it. Or try +to move the subselect into the FROM clause: + +SELECT + cc.id_contenido + ,cc.pertenece_premium + ,cc.Titulo_esp as v_sufix + ,cc.url_contenido + ,cc.tipo_acceso + ,cc.id_sbc + ,cc.cant_vistos + ,cc.cant_votos + ,cc.puntaje_total + ,cc.id_contenido_padre + ,jc.imagen_tapa_especial + ,jc.info_general_esp as info_general + ,jc.ayuda + ,jc.tips_tricks_esp as tips_tricks + ,jc.mod_imagen_tapa_especial + ,cp.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion + ,cp.generar_Vainilla + FROM + cont_contenido cc + ,juegos_config jc + ,(SELECT DISTINCT ON ( + id_instalacion, + id_contenido, + generar_vainilla, + fecha_publicacion + ) + * + FROM cont_publicacion + ORDER BY + id_instalacion, + id_contenido, + generar_vainilla, + fecha_publicacion desc + ) AS cp +WHERE + cc.id_instalacion = 2 + AND cc.id_sbc = 619 + AND cc.id_tipo = 2 + AND cc.id_instalacion = jc.id_instalacion + AND cc.id_contenido = jc.id_contenido + AND upper(cp.generar_Vainilla) = 'S' + AND cp.id_instalacion = cc.id_instalacion + AND cp.id_contenido = cc.id_contenido + ORDER BY + cp.fecha_publicacion desc + LIMIT 10 + OFFSET 0 + +[completely untested] + +Servus + Manfred + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 11:19:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF38D1C4E0 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:13:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15870-05 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:12:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from claxson.com (mx7.claxson.com [200.32.96.144]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE6ED1C995 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:13:41 -0300 (ADT) +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:13:43 -0300 +Message-ID: + +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNYdIlxZmNaOOtRT5Kx1waYYCGx6ACHdH2w +From: "Fernando Papa" +To: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/27 +X-Sequence-Number: 2844 + + +Hi Josh... a little worse time: + +EXPLAIN ANALYZE=20 +SELECT + cont_contenido.id_contenido + ,cont_contenido.pertenece_premium + ,cont_contenido.Titulo_esp as v_sufix=20 + ,cont_contenido.url_contenido + ,cont_contenido.tipo_acceso + ,cont_contenido.id_sbc + ,cont_contenido.cant_vistos + ,cont_contenido.cant_votos=20 + ,cont_contenido.puntaje_total=20 + ,cont_contenido.id_contenido_padre=20 + ,juegos_config.imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,juegos_config.info_general_esp as info_general=20 + ,juegos_config.ayuda=20 + ,juegos_config.tips_tricks_esp as tips_tricks=20 + ,juegos_config.mod_imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion=20 + ,cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla=20 + FROM=20 + cont_contenido=20=20=20 + ,juegos_config=20=20=20=20 +,cont_publicacion=20 + WHERE=20 + cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_sbc =3D 619 + AND cont_contenido.id_tipo =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D juegos_config.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_contenido.id_contenido =3D juegos_config.id_contenido=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20 + AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S' + AND cont_publicacion.id_instalacion =3D cont_contenido.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_publicacion.id_contenido =3D cont_contenido.id_contenido=20 + AND EXISTS (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) + FROM cont_publicacion cp1 + WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion + AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido + AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla + HAVING max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) =3D +cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion) +ORDER BY cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion desc=20 + LIMIT 10 +OFFSET 0 +; + + +=20 +QUERY PLAN + +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +--------- + Limit (cost=3D9.75..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D449760.88..449760.91 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.75..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D449760.87..449760.88 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D202257.20..449759.00 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D +"inner".id_instalacion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D +"inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..284556.86 rows=3D1 width=3D36= +7) +(actual time=3D7794.28..449741.85 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D +"outer".id_contenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D +"outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.43..8.12 rows= +=3D40 +loops=3D1) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion +(cost=3D0.00..7113.60 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual time=3D24.10..11239.67 +rows=3D97 loops=3D40) + Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D +'S'::text) AND (subplan)) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=3D15.85..15.85 rows=3D1 +width=3D8) (actual time=3D25.03..25.03 rows=3D0 loops=3D17880) + Filter: (max(fecha_publicacion) =3D $3) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1 +(cost=3D0.00..15.84 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actual time=3D10.51..24.85 rows=3D7 +loops=3D17880) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D $0) +AND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar_vainilla =3D $2)) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual +time=3D10.49..10.52 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, +cont_contenido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..9.70 +rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual time=3D0.59..8.07 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND +(id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 449765.69 msec +(20 rows) + + + +-----Mensaje original----- +De: Josh Berkus [mailto:josh@agliodbs.com]=20 +Enviado el: viernes, 01 de agosto de 2003 18:32 +Para: Christopher Browne; Fernando Papa +CC: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Asunto: Re: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 +msec + + +Fernando, + +> AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT +max(cp1.fecha_publicacion)=20 +> FROM cont_publicacion cp1=20=20 +> WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D +cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 +> AND cp1.id_contenido =3D +cont_publicacion.id_contenido=20=20 +> AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D +cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla)=20=20=20=20=20 + +Or event changing it to: + +AND EXISTS (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) + FROM cont_publicacion cp1 + WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 + AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido=20=20 + AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla + HAVING max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) =3D +cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion) +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 11:51:44 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD88D1C995 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:51:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 19783-01 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:50:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from claxson.com (mx7.claxson.com [200.32.96.144]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D12CD1C9ED + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:51:30 -0300 (ADT) +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:51:30 -0300 +Message-ID: + +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNY4gerw6r/R57lQy6j5W0+4aMbhgBtddHA +From: "Fernando Papa" +To: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/28 +X-Sequence-Number: 2845 + + +I create the index, but doesn't help too much: + + = + QUERY PLAN=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +------------------- + Limit (cost=3D9.75..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual time=3D486421.35..= +486421.38 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.75..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual time=3D486421= +.33..486421.34 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual t= +ime=3D220253.76..486420.35 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instalac= +ion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D "inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..1828.35 rows=3D1 width=3D367)= + (actual time=3D8347.78..486405.02 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_con= +tenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D "outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config (co= +st=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.23..6.73 rows=3D40= + loops=3D1) + -> Index Scan using idx_generar_vainilla_ci on cont_p= +ublicacion (cost=3D0.00..45.39 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual time=3D56.01..= +12156.48 rows=3D97 loops=3D40) + Index Cond: (upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D= + 'S'::text) + Filter: (fecha_publicacion =3D (subplan)) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=3D15.84..15.84 rows=3D1 w= +idth=3D8) (actual time=3D27.03..27.03 rows=3D1 loops=3D17880) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1 (c= +ost=3D0.00..15.84 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actual time=3D11.21..26.86 rows=3D7 = +loops=3D17880) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D $0) A= +ND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar_vainilla =3D $2)) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual t= +ime=3D9.28..9.32 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, cont_contenid= +o.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..9.70 row= +s=3D3 width=3D112) (actual time=3D0.47..7.48 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (id= +_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 486445.19 msec +(20 rows) + + +-----Mensaje original----- +De: Mendola Gaetano [mailto:mendola@bigfoot.com]=20 +Enviado el: s=E1bado, 02 de agosto de 2003 7:36 +Para: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +CC: Fernando Papa +Asunto: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec + + +From: ""Fernando Papa"" + +> AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S' + + +> Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D 'S'::text) AND +(fecha_publicacion =3D (subplan))) + +using a functional index on this field should help + +create index idx_generar_vainilla_ci on cont_publicacion ( +upper(generar_Vainilla) ) + + + +Regards +Gaetano Mendola + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 12:04:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF571D1C4E0 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:04:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 19254-05 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:03:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from claxson.com (mx7.claxson.com [200.32.96.144]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43720D1C4BD + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:02:53 -0300 (ADT) +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C35A99.767BA64A" +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:02:46 -0300 +Message-ID: + +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNalvZDOOXXd+TtQsuvYzR/to4BngAAi9Lw +From: "Fernando Papa" +To: "Volker Helm" +Cc: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/29 +X-Sequence-Number: 2846 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------_=_NextPart_001_01C35A99.767BA64A +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Hi Volker!!! I think you're right. Look at times: + = + QUERY PLAN=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +--------------------- + Limit (cost=3D23.37..23.37 rows=3D1 width=3D487) (actual time=3D2245.61..= +2245.61 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D23.37..23.37 rows=3D1 width=3D487) (actual time=3D2245= +.60..2245.60 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D23.33..23.36 rows=3D1 width=3D487) (actua= +l time=3D2244.10..2244.10 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: ("outer".fecha_publicacion =3D "inner".max_pub) + -> Merge Join (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (ac= +tual time=3D918.73..1988.43 rows=3D16 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_in= +stalacion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D "inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..409.35 rows=3D1 width= +=3D367) (actual time=3D35.44..1967.20 rows=3D82 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".= +id_contenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D "outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_confi= +g (cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.42..6.73 row= +s=3D40 loops=3D1) + -> Index Scan using idx_generar_vainilla_ci on = +cont_publicacion (cost=3D0.00..9.90 rows=3D2 width=3D35) (actual time=3D0.= +20..35.19 rows=3D447 loops=3D40) + Index Cond: (upper((generar_vainilla)::tex= +t) =3D 'S'::text) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (ac= +tual time=3D10.42..10.48 rows=3D15 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, cont_co= +ntenido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..9.= +70 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual time=3D0.57..8.11 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) A= +ND (id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + -> Subquery Scan a (cost=3D13.60..13.60 rows=3D1 width=3D8= +) (actual time=3D15.89..15.90 rows=3D1 loops=3D16) + -> Aggregate (cost=3D13.60..13.60 rows=3D1 width=3D8= +) (actual time=3D15.87..15.88 rows=3D1 loops=3D16) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1 (cost=3D0.= +00..12.48 rows=3D448 width=3D8) (actual time=3D0.05..11.62 rows=3D448 loops= +=3D16) + Total runtime: 2250.92 msec +(20 rows) +The problem was the subquery, no doubt. +=20 + + -----Mensaje original----- + De: Volker Helm [mailto:vhelm@shcom.de]=20 + Enviado el: lunes, 04 de agosto de 2003 11:45 + Para: Fernando Papa + Asunto: AW: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +=09 +=09 + Hi, +=09=20 + just use the subquery as inline-View an join the tables: +=09=20 + SELECT + cont_contenido.id_contenido + ,cont_contenido.pertenece_premium + ,cont_contenido.Titulo_esp as v_sufix=20 + ,cont_contenido.url_contenido + ,cont_contenido.tipo_acceso + ,cont_contenido.id_sbc + ,cont_contenido.cant_vistos + ,cont_contenido.cant_votos=20 + ,cont_contenido.puntaje_total=20 + ,cont_contenido.id_contenido_padre=20 + ,juegos_config.imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,juegos_config.info_general_esp as info_general=20 + ,juegos_config.ayuda=20 + ,juegos_config.tips_tricks_esp as tips_tricks=20 + ,juegos_config.mod_imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion=20 + ,cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla=20 + FROM=20 + cont_contenido=20=20=20 + ,juegos_config=20=20=20=20 + ,cont_publicacion=20 + ,(SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) as max_pub = + --change here + FROM cont_publicacion cp1) a --change here + WHERE=20 + cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_sbc =3D 619 + AND cont_contenido.id_tipo =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D juegos_config.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_contenido.id_contenido =3D juegos_config.id_contenido=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20 + AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S' + AND cont_publicacion.id_instalacion =3D cont_contenido.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_publicacion.id_contenido =3D cont_contenido.id_contenido=20 + AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D a.max_pub = + -- change here=20=20=20=20=20 + ORDER BY cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion desc +=09=20 + hope it helps, +=09=20 + Volker Helm + + -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- + Von: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-performance-own= +er@postgresql.org]Im Auftrag von Fernando Papa + Gesendet: Freitag, 1. August 2003 23:17 + An: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org + Betreff: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +=09=09 +=09=09 +=09=09=20 + Hi all! + Really I don't know what happened with this query. I'm running PG 7.3.1 o= +n solaris, vaccumed (full) every nigth. + The cardinality of each table was: +=09=09=20 + cont_contenido: 97 rows + juegos_config: 40 rows + cont_publicacion: 446 rows + not huge tables... +=09=09=20 + however, this query took a lot of time to run: Total runtime: 432478.44 = +msec + I made a explain analyze, but really I don't undertand why... +=09=09=20 + esdc=3D> explain analyze + SELECT + cont_contenido.id_contenido + ,cont_contenido.pertenece_premium + ,cont_contenido.Titulo_esp as v_sufix=20 + ,cont_contenido.url_contenido + ,cont_contenido.tipo_acceso + ,cont_contenido.id_sbc + ,cont_contenido.cant_vistos + ,cont_contenido.cant_votos=20 + ,cont_contenido.puntaje_total=20 + ,cont_contenido.id_contenido_padre=20 + ,juegos_config.imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,juegos_config.info_general_esp as info_general=20 + ,juegos_config.ayuda=20 + ,juegos_config.tips_tricks_esp as tips_tricks=20 + ,juegos_config.mod_imagen_tapa_especial=20 + ,cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion=20 + ,cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla=20 + FROM=20 + cont_contenido=20=20=20 + ,juegos_config=20=20=20=20 + ,cont_publicacion=20 + WHERE=20 + cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_sbc =3D 619 + AND cont_contenido.id_tipo =3D 2 + AND cont_contenido.id_instalacion =3D juegos_config.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_contenido.id_contenido =3D juegos_config.id_contenido=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 + AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S' + AND cont_publicacion.id_instalacion =3D cont_contenido.id_instalacion=20 + AND cont_publicacion.id_contenido =3D cont_contenido.id_contenido=20 + AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publica= +cion)=20 + FROM cont_publicacion cp1=20=20 + WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instal= +acion=20 + AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenid= +o=20=20 + AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar= +_vainilla)=20=20=20=20=20 + ORDER BY cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion desc=20 + LIMIT 10 + OFFSET 0 + esdc->; + QU= +ERY PLAN=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 + -------------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +----- + Limit (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D432473.69= +..432473.72 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D4324= +73.67..432473.68 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D8.69..8.71 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual= + time=3D197393.80..432471.92 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instal= +acion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D "inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..281713.36 rows=3D1 width=3D= +367) (actual time=3D7524.66..432454.11 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_c= +ontenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D "outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config (= +cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.39..7.81 rows=3D= +40 loops=3D1) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion (cost=3D0.00..7042= +.51 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual time=3D23.64..10807.83 rows=3D96 loops=3D4= +0) + Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D = +'S'::text) AND (fecha_publicacion =3D (subplan))) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=3D15.79..15.79 rows=3D1= + width=3D8) (actual time=3D24.16..24.16 rows=3D1 loops=3D17800) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1 = +(cost=3D0.00..15.79 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actual time=3D10.14..24.01 rows=3D= +7 loops=3D17800) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D $0)= + AND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar_vainilla =3D $2)) + -> Sort (cost=3D8.69..8.70 rows=3D3 width=3D111) (actual= + time=3D11.14..11.18 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, cont_conten= +ido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..8.66 r= +ows=3D3 width=3D111) (actual time=3D0.57..8.62 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (= +id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 432478.44 msec + (19 rows) +=09=09=20 + esdc=3D>=20 +=09=09=20 +=09=09=20 +=09=09 +=09=09 + If I replace the subquery with a fixed date +=09=09=20 + "AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D '17/01/2003'::timestamp" +=09=09 + = + QUERY PLAN=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20 + -------------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +------------ + Limit (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D797.26..7= +97.26 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D797.= +25..797.25 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D8.69..8.71 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual= + time=3D796.45..796.45 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instal= +acion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D "inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..644.29 rows=3D1 width=3D367= +) (actual time=3D796.44..796.44 rows=3D0 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_c= +ontenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D "outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config (= +cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.23..6.71 rows=3D= +40 loops=3D1) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion (cost=3D0.00..15.7= +9 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual time=3D19.70..19.70 rows=3D0 loops=3D40) + Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D = +'S'::text) AND (fecha_publicacion =3D '17/01/2003 00:00:00'::timestamp with= +out time zone)) + -> Sort (cost=3D8.69..8.70 rows=3D3 width=3D111) (never = +executed) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, cont_conten= +ido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..8.66 r= +ows=3D3 width=3D111) (never executed) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (= +id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 798.79 msec +=09=09=20 + run very smooth. +=09=09=20 + I have another query similar to this query (include more tables, but have= + the same subquery) but I don't have any problems. +=09=09=20 + Somebody can help me with this mess? Thanks in advance!!! +=09=09=20 + Fernando.- + + +------_=_NextPart_001_01C35A99.767BA64A +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + +Mensaje + + + +
Hi=20 +Volker!!! I think you're right. Look at times:
+
        = +            &nb= +sp;            = +            &nb= +sp;            = +            &nb= +sp;       =20 +QUERY=20 +PLAN            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;            &n= +bsp;     =20 +
-----------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +-------------------------
 Limit =20 +(cost=3D23.37..23.37 rows=3D1 width=3D487) (actual time=3D2245.61..2245.61 = +rows=3D0=20 +loops=3D1)
   ->  Sort  (cost=3D23.37..23.37 rows= +=3D1=20 +width=3D487) (actual time=3D2245.60..2245.60 rows=3D0=20 +loops=3D1)
         Sort Key:=20 +cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion
      &= +nbsp; =20 +->  Nested Loop  (cost=3D23.33..23.36 rows=3D1 width=3D487) (a= +ctual=20 +time=3D2244.10..2244.10 rows=3D0=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;   =20 +Join Filter: ("outer".fecha_publicacion =3D=20 +"inner".max_pub)
         &= +nbsp;    =20 +->  Merge Join  (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actu= +al=20 +time=3D918.73..1988.43 rows=3D16=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;         =20 +Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instalacion) AND=20 +("outer".id_contenido =3D=20 +"inner".id_contenido))
        &= +nbsp;           =20 +->  Nested Loop  (cost=3D0.00..409.35 rows=3D1 width=3D367) (a= +ctual=20 +time=3D35.44..1967.20 rows=3D82=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;   =20 +Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_contenido) AND=20 +("inner".id_instalacion =3D=20 +"outer".id_instalacion))
        = +;            &n= +bsp;     =20 +->  Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config =20 +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.42..6.73 rows= +=3D40=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;   =20 +->  Index Scan using idx_generar_vainilla_ci on cont_publicacion&nb= +sp;=20 +(cost=3D0.00..9.90 rows=3D2 width=3D35) (actual time=3D0.20..35.19 rows=3D4= +47=20 +loops=3D40)
          = +            &nb= +sp;         =20 +Index Cond: (upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D=20 +'S'::text)
          &= +nbsp;         =20 +->  Sort  (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual=20 +time=3D10.42..10.48 rows=3D15=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;   =20 +Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion,=20 +cont_contenido.id_contenido
       &n= +bsp;            = +;      =20 +->  Seq Scan on cont_contenido  (cost=3D0.00..9.70 rows=3D3 wi= +dth=3D112)=20 +(actual time=3D0.57..8.11 rows=3D8=20 +loops=3D1)
          &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;         =20 +Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND = +(id_tipo=20 +=3D=20 +2::numeric))
          = +;    =20 +->  Subquery Scan a  (cost=3D13.60..13.60 rows=3D1 width=3D8) = +(actual=20 +time=3D15.89..15.90 rows=3D1=20 +loops=3D16)
          = +          =20 +->  Aggregate  (cost=3D13.60..13.60 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actua= +l=20 +time=3D15.87..15.88 rows=3D1=20 +loops=3D16)
          = +            &nb= +sp;   =20 +->  Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1  (cost=3D0.00..12.48 rows= +=3D448=20 +width=3D8) (actual time=3D0.05..11.62 rows=3D448 loops=3D16)
 Total= + runtime:=20 +2250.92 msec
(20 rows)
+
The=20 +problem was the subquery, no doubt.
+
 
+
+
+
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Volker Helm=20 + [mailto:vhelm@shcom.de]
Enviado el: lunes, 04 de agosto de 200= +3=20 + 11:45
Para: Fernando Papa
Asunto: AW: [PERFORM] I can= +'t=20 + wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec

+
Hi,
+
 
+
just use the subquery as inline-View an join t= +he=20 + tables:
+
 
+
SELECT
 =20 + cont_contenido.id_contenido
 ,cont_contenido.pertenece_premium ,cont_contenido.Titulo_esp=20 + as v_sufix=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.url_contenido
 ,cont_contenido.tipo_acc= +eso
 ,cont_contenido.id_sbc
 ,cont_contenido.cant_vistos ,cont_contenido.cant_votos=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.puntaje_total=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.id_contenido_padre=20 +
 ,juegos_config.imagen_tapa_especial=20 +
 ,juegos_config.info_general_esp as info_general=20 +
 ,juegos_config.ayuda
 ,juegos_config.tips_tricks_esp a= +s=20 + tips_tricks
 ,juegos_config.mod_imagen_tapa_especial=20 +
 ,cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion=20 +
 ,cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla
 FROM=20 +
 cont_contenido  =20 +
 ,juegos_config   
 ,cont_publicacion=20 +
+
 ,(SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) as= +=20 + max_pub           = +            &nb= +sp;            = +    =20 + --change=20 + here
           = +;      =20 + FROM cont_publicacion cp1) a     --change=20 + here
WHERE=20 +
 cont_contenido.id_instalacion     &nbs= +p; =20 + =3D 2
 AND=20 + cont_contenido.id_sbc        &nbs= +p; =20 + =3D 619
 AND=20 + cont_contenido.id_tipo        &nb= +sp; =20 + =3D 2
 AND cont_contenido.id_instalacion  =3D=20 + juegos_config.id_instalacion
 AND=20 + cont_contenido.id_contenido   =3D=20 + juegos_config.id_contenido        = +;=20 +
 AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S'
 A= +ND=20 + cont_publicacion.id_instalacion =3D cont_contenido.id_instalacion
&nb= +sp;AND=20 + cont_publicacion.id_contenido =3D cont_contenido.id_contenido
 A= +ND=20 + cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion=20 + =3D a.max_pub         &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;       =20 + --  change here     
 ORDER BY = +;=20 + cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion desc
+
 
+
hope it helps,
+
 
+
Volker Helm
+ +
-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
Von:=20 + pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org=20 + [mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org]Im Auftrag von=20 + Fernando Papa
Gesendet: Freitag, 1. August 2003=20 + 23:17
An: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Betreff:= +=20 + [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44=20 + msec

+
 
+
Hi=20 + all!
+
Reall= +y I don't=20 + know what happened with this query. I'm running PG 7.3.1 on solaris,=20 + vaccumed (full) every nigth.
+
The c= +ardinality=20 + of each table was:
+
 
+
cont_contenido: 97 rows
+
juegos_config: 40 rows
+
cont_publicacion: 446 rows
+
not h= +uge=20 + tables...
+
 
+
howev= +er, this=20 + query took a lot of time to run:  Total runtime: 432478.44=20 + msec
I made a explain analyze, but really I don't undertand=20 + why...
 +
 
+
esdc=3D> explain analyze
SELECT<= +BR> =20 + cont_contenido.id_contenido
 ,cont_contenido.pertenece_premium<= +BR> ,cont_contenido.Titulo_esp=20 + as v_sufix=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.url_contenido
 ,cont_contenido.tipo_a= +cceso
 ,cont_contenido.id_sbc
 ,cont_contenido.cant_vistos<= +BR> ,cont_contenido.cant_votos=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.puntaje_total=20 +
 ,cont_contenido.id_contenido_padre=20 +
 ,juegos_config.imagen_tapa_especial=20 +
 ,juegos_config.info_general_esp as info_general=20 +
 ,juegos_config.ayuda
 ,juegos_config.tips_tricks_esp= + as=20 + tips_tricks
 ,juegos_config.mod_imagen_tapa_especial=20 +
 ,cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion as fecha_publicacion=20 +
 ,cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla
 FROM=20 +
 cont_contenido  =20 +
 ,juegos_config   
 ,cont_publicacion= +=20 +
WHERE=20 +
 cont_contenido.id_instalacion     &n= +bsp; =20 + =3D 2
 AND=20 + cont_contenido.id_sbc        &n= +bsp; =20 + =3D 619
 AND=20 + cont_contenido.id_tipo        &= +nbsp; =20 + =3D 2
 AND cont_contenido.id_instalacion  =3D=20 + juegos_config.id_instalacion
 AND=20 + cont_contenido.id_contenido   =3D=20 + juegos_config.id_contenido       &nb= +sp;=20 +
 AND upper(cont_publicacion.generar_Vainilla) =3D 'S'
 = +;AND=20 + cont_publicacion.id_instalacion =3D cont_contenido.id_instalacion=20 +
 AND cont_publicacion.id_contenido =3D cont_contenido.id_conte= +nido=20 +
 AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT=20 + max(cp1.fecha_publicacion)=20 +
           &= +nbsp;     =20 + FROM cont_publicacion cp1 =20 +
           &= +nbsp;     =20 + WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 +
           &= +nbsp;       =20 + AND cp1.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido =20 +
           &= +nbsp;       =20 + AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D=20 + cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla)    
 OR= +DER=20 + BY  cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion desc
 LIMIT=20 + 10
 OFFSET=20 + 0
esdc->;
        &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;           =20 + QUERY=20 + PLAN           &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;         =20 +
-------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +-----------
 Limit =20 + (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D432473.69..4324= +73.72 rows=3D8=20 + loops=3D1)
   ->  Sort  (cost=3D8.72..8.73 ro= +ws=3D1=20 + width=3D478) (actual time=3D432473.67..432473.68 rows=3D8=20 + loops=3D1)
         Sort Key= +:=20 + cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion
     &nb= +sp;  =20 + ->  Merge Join  (cost=3D8.69..8.71 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (= +actual=20 + time=3D197393.80..432471.92 rows=3D8=20 + loops=3D1)
         &nb= +sp;    =20 + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instalacion) AND=20 + ("outer".id_contenido =3D=20 + "inner".id_contenido))
       &nb= +sp;      =20 + ->  Nested Loop  (cost=3D0.00..281713.36 rows=3D1 width=3D= +367)=20 + (actual time=3D7524.66..432454.11 rows=3D40=20 + loops=3D1)
         &nb= +sp;          =20 + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_contenido) AND=20 + ("inner".id_instalacion =3D=20 + "outer".id_instalacion))
       &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;=20 + ->  Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config =20 + (cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.39..7.81 ro= +ws=3D40=20 + loops=3D1)
         &nb= +sp;          =20 + ->  Seq Scan on cont_publicacion  (cost=3D0.00..7042.51 ro= +ws=3D1=20 + width=3D35) (actual time=3D23.64..10807.83 rows=3D96=20 + loops=3D40)
         &n= +bsp;            = +;    =20 + Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D 'S'::text) AND=20 + (fecha_publicacion =3D=20 + (subplan)))
         &n= +bsp;            = +;    =20 + SubPlan
          = +            &nb= +sp;     =20 + ->  Aggregate  (cost=3D15.79..15.79 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (a= +ctual=20 + time=3D24.16..24.16 rows=3D1=20 + loops=3D17800)
         = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;=20 + ->  Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1  (cost=3D0.00..15.79 = +rows=3D1=20 + width=3D8) (actual time=3D10.14..24.01 rows=3D7=20 + loops=3D17800)
         = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;      =20 + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D $0) AND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar= +_vainilla=20 + =3D=20 + $2))
          &nb= +sp;   =20 + ->  Sort  (cost=3D8.69..8.70 rows=3D3 width=3D111) (actual= +=20 + time=3D11.14..11.18 rows=3D8=20 + loops=3D1)
         &nb= +sp;          =20 + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion,=20 + cont_contenido.id_contenido
      &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;=20 + ->  Seq Scan on cont_contenido  (cost=3D0.00..8.66 rows=3D= +3=20 + width=3D111) (actual time=3D0.57..8.62 rows=3D8=20 + loops=3D1)
         &nb= +sp;            = +    =20 + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) = +AND=20 + (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric))
 Total runtime: 432478.44 msec
(19= +=20 + rows)
+
 
+
esdc=3D>
+
 
+
 
<= +FONT=20 + face=3DArial size=3D2> +

If I replace the subquery with a fixed=20 + date
+
 
+
"AND= +=20 + cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D=20 + '17/01/2003'::timestamp"
+
       &n= +bsp;            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;            &n= +bsp;            = +;    =20 + QUERY=20 + PLAN           &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;=20 +
-------------------------------------------------------------------= +---------------------------------------------------------------------------= +------------------
 Limit =20 + (cost=3D8.72..8.73 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (actual time=3D797.26..797.26 = +rows=3D0=20 + loops=3D1)
   ->  Sort  (cost=3D8.72..8.73 ro= +ws=3D1=20 + width=3D478) (actual time=3D797.25..797.25 rows=3D0=20 + loops=3D1)
         Sort Key= +:=20 + cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion
     &nb= +sp;  =20 + ->  Merge Join  (cost=3D8.69..8.71 rows=3D1 width=3D478) (= +actual=20 + time=3D796.45..796.45 rows=3D0=20 + loops=3D1)
         &nb= +sp;    =20 + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D "inner".id_instalacion) AND=20 + ("outer".id_contenido =3D=20 + "inner".id_contenido))
       &nb= +sp;      =20 + ->  Nested Loop  (cost=3D0.00..644.29 rows=3D1 width=3D367= +) (actual=20 + time=3D796.44..796.44 rows=3D0=20 + loops=3D1)
         &nb= +sp;          =20 + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D "outer".id_contenido) AND=20 + ("inner".id_instalacion =3D=20 + "outer".id_instalacion))
       &= +nbsp;           &nbs= +p;=20 + ->  Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config =20 + (cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.23..6.71 ro= +ws=3D40=20 + loops=3D1)
         &nb= +sp;          =20 + ->  Seq Scan on cont_publicacion  (cost=3D0.00..15.79 rows= +=3D1=20 + width=3D35) (actual time=3D19.70..19.70 rows=3D0=20 + loops=3D40)
         &n= +bsp;            = +;    =20 + Filter: ((upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D 'S'::text) AND=20 + (fecha_publicacion =3D '17/01/2003 00:00:00'::timestamp without time=20 + zone))
          &= +nbsp;   =20 + ->  Sort  (cost=3D8.69..8.70 rows=3D3 width=3D111) (never= +=20 + executed)
         &nbs= +p;          =20 + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion,=20 + cont_contenido.id_contenido
      &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;=20 + ->  Seq Scan on cont_contenido  (cost=3D0.00..8.66 rows=3D= +3=20 + width=3D111) (never=20 + executed)
         &nbs= +p;            &= +nbsp;   =20 + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND (id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) = +AND=20 + (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric))
 Total runtime: 798.79=20 + msec
+
 
+
run v= +ery=20 + smooth.
+
 
+
I hav= +e another=20 + query similar to this query (include more tables, but have the same=20 + subquery) but I don't have any problems.
+
 
+
Someb= +ody can=20 + help me with this mess? Thanks in advance!!!
+
 
+
Fernando.-
+=00 +------_=_NextPart_001_01C35A99.767BA64A-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 12:17:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9097D1C4E0 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:17:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 22707-01 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:16:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from email04.aon.at (WARSL402PIP5.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EF1CBD1C4BD + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:17:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 530016 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2003 15:16:55 -0000 +Received: from m154p007.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO cantor) ([62.46.9.39]) + (envelope-sender ) + by qmail4rs.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 4 Aug 2003 15:16:55 -0000 +From: Manfred Koizar +To: "Fernando Papa" +Cc: "Volker Helm" , + +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:17:06 +0200 +Message-ID: <13usivgqnvs076tgivbo0mubpke841d68v@4ax.com> +References: + +In-Reply-To: + +X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/30 +X-Sequence-Number: 2847 + +On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:02:46 -0300, "Fernando Papa" +wrote: +> FROM +> cont_contenido +> ,juegos_config +> ,cont_publicacion +> ,(SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) as max_pub --change here +> FROM cont_publicacion cp1) a --change here + +But this calculates the global maximum, not per id_instalacion, +id_contenido, and generar_vainilla as in + +> AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion = (SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) +> FROM cont_publicacion cp1 +> WHERE cp1.id_instalacion = cont_publicacion.id_instalacion +> AND cp1.id_contenido = cont_publicacion.id_contenido +> AND cp1.generar_vainilla = cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla) + +Servus + Manfred + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 12:26:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D166D1C9DB + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:25:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 21237-06 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:24:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail-2.zoominternet.net (mail-2.zoominternet.net + [63.67.120.22]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A980D1C7EB + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:25:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 327 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2003 15:25:33 -0000 +Received: from acs-24-154-209-142.zoominternet.net (HELO gmod.lajolla) + ([24.154.209.142]) (envelope-sender ) + by mail-2.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 4 Aug 2003 15:25:33 -0000 +Subject: Re: EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +From: Scott Cain +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Cc: pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab +Message-Id: <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 04 Aug 2003 11:25:36 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/31 +X-Sequence-Number: 2848 + +Hello, + +Note: there is a SQL question way at the bottom of this narrative :-) + +Last week I asked about doing substring operations on very long strings +(>10 million characters). I was given a suggestion to use EXTERNAL +storage on the column via the ALTER TABLE ... SET STORAGE command. In +one test case, the performance of substring actually got worse using +EXTERNAL storage. + +In an effort to find the best way to do this operation, I decided to +look at what is my "worst case" scenario: the DNA sequence for human +chromosome 1, which is about 250 million characters long (previous +strings where about 20 million characters long). I wrote a perl script +to do several substring operations over this very long string, with +substring lengths varying between 1000 and 40,000 characters spread out +over various locations along the string. While EXTENDED storage won in +this case, it was a hollow victory: 38 seconds per operation versus 40 +seconds, both of which are way too long to for an interactive +application. + +Time for a new method. A suggestion from my boss was to "shred" the DNA +into smallish chunks and a column giving offsets from the beginning of +the string, so that it can be reassembled when needed. Here is the test +table: + +string=> \d dna + Table "public.dna" + Column | Type | Modifiers +---------+---------+----------- + foffset | integer | + pdna | text | +Indexes: foffset_idx btree (foffset) + +In practice, there would also be a foreign key column to give the +identifier of the dna. Then I wrote the following function (here's the +SQL part promised above): + +CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION dna_string (integer, integer) RETURNS TEXT AS ' +DECLARE + smin ALIAS FOR $1; + smax ALIAS FOR $2; + longdna TEXT := ''''; + dna_row dna%ROWTYPE; + dnastring TEXT; + firstchunk INTEGER; + lastchunk INTEGER; + in_longdnastart INTEGER; + in_longdnalen INTEGER; + chunksize INTEGER; +BEGIN + SELECT INTO chunksize min(foffset) FROM dna WHERE foffset>0; + firstchunk := chunksize*(smin/chunksize); + lastchunk := chunksize*(smax/chunksize); + + in_longdnastart := smin % chunksize; + in_longdnalen := smax - smin + 1; + + FOR dna_row IN + SELECT * FROM dna + WHERE foffset >= firstchunk AND foffset <= lastchunk + ORDER BY foffset + LOOP + + longdna := longdna || dna_row.pdna; + END LOOP; + + dnastring := substring(longdna FROM in_longdnastart FOR in_longdnalen); + + RETURN dnastring; +END; +' LANGUAGE 'plpgsql'; + +So here's the question: I've never written a plpgsql function before, so +I don't have much experience with it; is there anything obviously wrong +with this function, or are there things that could be done better? At +least this appears to work and is much faster, completing substring +operations like above in about 0.27 secs (that's about two orders of +magnitude improvement!) + +Thanks, +Scott + + +-- +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Scott Cain, Ph. D. cain@cshl.org +GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 +Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 12:27:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDC2D1C9FD + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:26:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 20003-10 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:25:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from claxson.com (mx7.claxson.com [200.32.96.144]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB563D1C9F7 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:26:40 -0300 (ADT) +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:26:38 -0300 +Message-ID: + +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNam4EcVi2lqe3YSkeMDojnvKhWEwAASWlg +From: "Fernando Papa" +To: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/32 +X-Sequence-Number: 2849 + +Err... you're right... one of us say the same thing when I show the +Volker mail... + +-----Mensaje original----- +De: Manfred Koizar [mailto:mkoi-pg@aon.at]=20 +Enviado el: lunes, 04 de agosto de 2003 12:17 +Para: Fernando Papa +CC: Volker Helm; pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Asunto: Re: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 +msec + + +On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:02:46 -0300, "Fernando Papa" +wrote: +> FROM=20 +> cont_contenido=20=20=20 +> ,juegos_config=20=20=20=20 +> ,cont_publicacion=20 +> ,(SELECT max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) as max_pub +--change here +> FROM cont_publicacion cp1) a --change here + +But this calculates the global maximum, not per id_instalacion, +id_contenido, and generar_vainilla as in + +> AND cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion =3D (SELECT +max(cp1.fecha_publicacion)=20 +> FROM cont_publicacion cp1=20=20 +> WHERE cp1.id_instalacion =3D +cont_publicacion.id_instalacion=20 +> AND cp1.id_contenido =3D +cont_publicacion.id_contenido=20=20 +> AND cp1.generar_vainilla =3D +cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla)=20=20=20=20=20 + +Servus + Manfred + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 12:57:05 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id A4A4DD1C9DB; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:53:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 24438-06; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:52:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id B4BABD1C9ED; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:53:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h74FrhSa003575; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:53:44 -0400 (EDT) +To: Scott Cain +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +In-reply-to: <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Comments: In-reply-to Scott Cain + message dated "04 Aug 2003 11:25:36 -0400" +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:53:43 -0400 +Message-ID: <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/33 +X-Sequence-Number: 2850 + +Scott Cain writes: +> At least this appears to work and is much faster, completing substring +> operations like above in about 0.27 secs (that's about two orders of +> magnitude improvement!) + +I find it really, really hard to believe that a crude reimplementation +in plpgsql of the TOAST concept could beat the built-in implementation +at all, let alone beat it by two orders of magnitude. + +Either there's something unrealistic about your testing of the +dna_string function, or your original tests are not causing TOAST to be +invoked in the expected way, or there's a bug we need to fix. I'd +really like to see some profiling of the poor-performing +external-storage case, so we can figure out what's going on. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 13:00:10 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 7EE7ED1C9EA; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:56:04 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 24013-06; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:54:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net + [194.217.242.92]) by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 7DAC9D1C92F; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:55:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mwynhau.demon.co.uk ([193.237.186.96] + helo=mainbox.archonet.com) + by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) + id 19jhgd-0002lP-0Y; Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:55:51 +0100 +Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 2D47A1662F; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:55:50 +0100 (BST) +Received: from client17.archonet.com (client17.archonet.com [192.168.1.17]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 74D841662A; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:55:49 +0100 (BST) +From: Richard Huxton +To: Scott Cain , + PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:55:48 +0100 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +Cc: pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="utf-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308041655.48151.dev@archonet.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/34 +X-Sequence-Number: 2851 + +On Monday 04 August 2003 16:25, Scott Cain wrote: +[snip] +> In an effort to find the best way to do this operation, I decided to +> look at what is my "worst case" scenario: the DNA sequence for human +> chromosome 1, which is about 250 million characters long (previous +> strings where about 20 million characters long). I wrote a perl script +> to do several substring operations over this very long string, with +> substring lengths varying between 1000 and 40,000 characters spread out +> over various locations along the string. While EXTENDED storage won in +> this case, it was a hollow victory: 38 seconds per operation versus 40 +> seconds, both of which are way too long to for an interactive +> application. +> +> Time for a new method. A suggestion from my boss was to "shred" the DNA +> into smallish chunks and a column giving offsets from the beginning of +> the string, so that it can be reassembled when needed. Here is the test +> table: +> +> string=> \d dna +> Table "public.dna" +> Column | Type | Modifiers +> ---------+---------+----------- +> foffset | integer | +> pdna | text | +> Indexes: foffset_idx btree (foffset) + +[snipped plpgsql function which stitches chunks together and then substrings] + +> So here's the question: I've never written a plpgsql function before, so +> I don't have much experience with it; is there anything obviously wrong +> with this function, or are there things that could be done better? At +> least this appears to work and is much faster, completing substring +> operations like above in about 0.27 secs (that's about two orders of +> magnitude improvement!) + +You might want some checks to make sure that smin < smax, otherwise looks like +it does the job in a good clean fashion. + +Glad to hear it's going to solve your problems. Two things you might want to +bear in mind: +1. There's probably a "sweet spot" where the chunk size interacts well with +your data, usage patterns and PGs backend to give you peak performance. +You'll have to test. +2. If you want to search for a sequence you'll need to deal with the case +where it starts in one chunk and ends in another. + +-- + Richard Huxton + Archonet Ltd + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 13:23:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 7A9F2D1C914; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:22:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 26305-06; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:20:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 4D881D1C92D; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:22:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h74GKLGh027970; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:20:21 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:07:01 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Manfred Koizar +Cc: Jenny Zhang , , + , +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is available on PostgreSQL +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/158 +X-Sequence-Number: 46575 + +On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Manfred Koizar wrote: + +> On 01 Aug 2003 11:04:10 -0700, Jenny Zhang wrote: +> >A sample OSDL-DBT3 test result report can be found at: +> >http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/ +> > +> >Your comments are welcome, +> +> | effective_cache_size | 1000 +> +> With 4GB of memory this is definitely too low and *can* (note that I +> don't say *must*) lead the planner to wrong decisions. +> +> | shared_buffers | 15200 +> +> ... looks reasonable. Did you test with other values? +> +> | sort_mem | 524288 +> +> This is a bit high, IMHO, but might be ok given that DBT3 is not run +> with many concurrent sessions (right?). +> http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/results/plot/vmstat_swap.png shows +> some swapping activity towards the end of the run which could be +> caused by a too high sort_mem setting. + +And, as always, don't forget to set effect_cache_size. + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 13:24:59 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 00C20D1CA07; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:24:04 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 25490-07; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:22:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id E406BD1CA03; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:23:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h74GMTGh028128; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:22:29 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:09:09 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Manfred Koizar +Cc: Jenny Zhang , , + , +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is available on PostgreSQL +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/159 +X-Sequence-Number: 46576 + +On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Manfred Koizar wrote: + +> On 01 Aug 2003 11:04:10 -0700, Jenny Zhang wrote: +> >A sample OSDL-DBT3 test result report can be found at: +> >http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/ +> > +> >Your comments are welcome, +> +> | effective_cache_size | 1000 +> +> With 4GB of memory this is definitely too low and *can* (note that I +> don't say *must*) lead the planner to wrong decisions. +> +> | shared_buffers | 15200 +> +> ... looks reasonable. Did you test with other values? +> +> | sort_mem | 524288 +> +> This is a bit high, IMHO, but might be ok given that DBT3 is not run +> with many concurrent sessions (right?). +> http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/results/plot/vmstat_swap.png shows +> some swapping activity towards the end of the run which could be +> caused by a too high sort_mem setting. + +Sorry, my last email shot off out of the gun before it was completed... + +To repeat: Don't forget to set effective_cache_size the same way as +shared buffers (i.e. it's in 8k blocks for most systems.) If you have a +machine with 4 gig ram, and 3 gigs is available as disk cache, then +divide out 3 gigs by 8k to get the right number. My quick calculation +shows that being about 393216 blocks. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 13:14:20 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90446D1C92D + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:14:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 25250-07 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:13:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail-3.zoominternet.net (mail-3.zoominternet.net [63.67.120.3]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A7D2AD1CA05 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:14:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 20886 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2003 16:14:04 -0000 +Received: from acs-24-154-209-142.zoominternet.net (HELO gmod.lajolla) + ([24.154.209.142]) (envelope-sender ) + by mail-3.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 4 Aug 2003 16:14:04 -0000 +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +From: Scott Cain +To: Richard Huxton +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <200308041655.48151.dev@archonet.com> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <200308041655.48151.dev@archonet.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab +Message-Id: <1060013646.1434.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 04 Aug 2003 12:14:06 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/35 +X-Sequence-Number: 2852 + +On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 11:55, Richard Huxton wrote: +> On Monday 04 August 2003 16:25, Scott Cain wrote: +> [snip] +> > [snip] +> +> You might want some checks to make sure that smin < smax, otherwise looks like +> it does the job in a good clean fashion. + +Good point--smin < smax generally by virtue of the application using the +database, but I shouldn't assume that will always be the case. +> +> Glad to hear it's going to solve your problems. Two things you might want to +> bear in mind: +> 1. There's probably a "sweet spot" where the chunk size interacts well with +> your data, usage patterns and PGs backend to give you peak performance. +> You'll have to test. + +Yes, I had a feeling that was probably the case-- since this is an open +source project, I will need to write directions for installers on +picking a reasonable chunk size. + +> 2. If you want to search for a sequence you'll need to deal with the case +> where it starts in one chunk and ends in another. + +I forgot about searching--I suspect that application is why I faced +opposition for shredding in my schema development group. Maybe I should +push that off to the file system and use grep (or BLAST). Otherwise, I +could write a function that would search the chunks first, then after +failing to find the substring in those, I could start sewing the chunks +together to look for the query string. That could get ugly (and +slow--but if the user knows that and expects it to be slow, I'm ok with +that). + +Thanks, +Scott + +-- +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Scott Cain, Ph. D. cain@cshl.org +GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 +Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 13:17:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBC4D1CA1B + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:17:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 27399-02 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:16:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05418D1CA08 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:17:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h74GHP8D029120 + for ; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:47:25 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h74GHOK7029107; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:47:25 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:49:15 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F2ED4DB.30291.5A1A19@localhost> +In-reply-to: <1060013646.1434.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> +References: <200308041655.48151.dev@archonet.com> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/36 +X-Sequence-Number: 2853 + +On 4 Aug 2003 at 12:14, Scott Cain wrote: +> I forgot about searching--I suspect that application is why I faced +> opposition for shredding in my schema development group. Maybe I should +> push that off to the file system and use grep (or BLAST). Otherwise, I +> could write a function that would search the chunks first, then after +> failing to find the substring in those, I could start sewing the chunks +> together to look for the query string. That could get ugly (and +> slow--but if the user knows that and expects it to be slow, I'm ok with +> that). + +I assume your DNA sequence is compacted. Your best bet would be to fetch them +from database and run blast on them in client memory. No point duplicating +blast functionality. Last I tried it beat every technique of text searching +when heuristics are involved. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +There are two types of Linux developers - those who can spell, andthose who +can't. There is a constant pitched battle between the two.(From one of the post- +1.1.54 kernel update messages posted to c.o.l.a) + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 13:28:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF0ED1C9EC + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:25:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 27146-05 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:24:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail-2.zoominternet.net (mail-2.zoominternet.net + [63.67.120.22]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 414B4D1C9FE + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:25:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 11206 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2003 16:25:38 -0000 +Received: from acs-24-154-209-142.zoominternet.net (HELO gmod.lajolla) + ([24.154.209.142]) (envelope-sender ) + by mail-2.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 4 Aug 2003 16:25:37 -0000 +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +From: Scott Cain +To: Tom Lane +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab +Message-Id: <1060014341.1434.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 04 Aug 2003 12:25:41 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/39 +X-Sequence-Number: 2856 + +On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 11:53, Tom Lane wrote: +> Scott Cain writes: +> > At least this appears to work and is much faster, completing substring +> > operations like above in about 0.27 secs (that's about two orders of +> > magnitude improvement!) +> +> I find it really, really hard to believe that a crude reimplementation +> in plpgsql of the TOAST concept could beat the built-in implementation +> at all, let alone beat it by two orders of magnitude. +> +> Either there's something unrealistic about your testing of the +> dna_string function, or your original tests are not causing TOAST to be +> invoked in the expected way, or there's a bug we need to fix. I'd +> really like to see some profiling of the poor-performing +> external-storage case, so we can figure out what's going on. +> +I was really hoping for a "Good job and glad to hear it" from you :-) + +I don't think there is anything unrealistic about my function or its +testing, as it is very much along the lines of the types of things we do +now. I will really try to do some profiling this week to help figure +out what is going on. + +Scott + +-- +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Scott Cain, Ph. D. cain@cshl.org +GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 +Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 13:37:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E79D1C92F + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:37:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26065-10 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:36:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA19D1C914 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:37:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h74Gbc1f000483 + for ; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:07:38 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h74GbbK7000456; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:07:37 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, pgsql-general@postgresql.org, + osdldbt-general@lists.sourceforge.net +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:09:27 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is available on PostgreSQL +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F2ED997.25642.6C9A5E@localhost> +In-reply-to: +References: <1059761051.1535.396.camel@ibm-a> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/162 +X-Sequence-Number: 46579 + +On 4 Aug 2003 at 15:33, Manfred Koizar wrote: + +> On 01 Aug 2003 11:04:10 -0700, Jenny Zhang wrote: +> >A sample OSDL-DBT3 test result report can be found at: +> >http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/ +> > +> >Your comments are welcome, + +I could not get postgresql .conf so I will combine the comments. + +1. Effective cache size, already mentioned +2. Sort memory already mentioned. +3. Was WAL put on different drive? +4. Can you try with autovacuum daemon and 7.4beta when it comes out.. +5. What was the file system? Ext2/Ext3/reiser/XFS? + + + +Is there any comparison available for other databases.. Could be interesting to +see..:-) + + + +Thanks for the good work. I understand it must have been quite an effort to run +it.. + +Keep it up.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Fourth Law of Revision: It is usually impractical to worry beforehand about +interferences -- if you have none, someone will make one for you. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 13:56:15 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0DCDD1CA11 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:56:13 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 30676-01 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:54:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F36F8D1CA05 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:56:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 7578 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2003 16:56:01 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO solent) (213.165.136.12) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2003 16:56:01 -0000 +From: "Matt Clark" +To: "Scott Cain" , "Richard Huxton" +Cc: "PgSQL Performance ML" , + +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:56:00 +0100 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) +Importance: Normal +In-Reply-To: <1060013646.1434.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/41 +X-Sequence-Number: 2858 + +> > 2. If you want to search for a sequence you'll need to deal with the case +> > where it starts in one chunk and ends in another. +> +> I forgot about searching--I suspect that application is why I faced +> opposition for shredding in my schema development group. Maybe I should +> push that off to the file system and use grep (or BLAST). Otherwise, I +> could write a function that would search the chunks first, then after +> failing to find the substring in those, I could start sewing the chunks +> together to look for the query string. That could get ugly (and +> slow--but if the user knows that and expects it to be slow, I'm ok with +> that). + +If you know the max length of the sequences being searched for, and this is much less than the chunk size, then you could simply +have the chunks overlap by that much, thus guaranteeing every substring will be found in its entirety in at least one chunk. + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 17:17:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A97AD1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 20:17:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 42714-10 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:16:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from claxson.com (mx7.claxson.com [200.32.96.144]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E9ED1C91C + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:17:38 -0300 (ADT) +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:17:36 -0300 +Message-ID: + +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNam4EcVi2lqe3YSkeMDojnvKhWEwAASWlgAAoKgtA= +From: "Fernando Papa" +To: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/42 +X-Sequence-Number: 2859 + + +I was play with nested loops, and I found this: + + +Original explain: + + Limit (cost=3D9.75..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D436858.90..436858.93 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.75..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D436858.88..436858.89 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D196970.93..436858.04 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D +"inner".id_instalacion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D +"inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..1828.46 rows=3D1 width=3D367) +(actual time=3D7525.51..436843.27 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D +"outer".id_contenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D +"outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.38..6.63 rows= +=3D40 +loops=3D1) + -> Index Scan using idx_generar_vainilla_ci on +cont_publicacion (cost=3D0.00..45.39 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual +time=3D48.81..10917.53 rows=3D97 loops=3D40) + Index Cond: (upper((generar_vainilla)::text) +=3D 'S'::text) + Filter: (subplan) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=3D15.85..15.85 rows=3D1 +width=3D8) (actual time=3D24.30..24.30 rows=3D0 loops=3D17880) + Filter: (max(fecha_publicacion) =3D $3) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion cp1 +(cost=3D0.00..15.84 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actual time=3D10.17..24.12 rows=3D7 +loops=3D17880) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D $0) +AND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar_vainilla =3D $2)) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual +time=3D8.91..8.95 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, +cont_contenido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..9.70 +rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual time=3D0.45..7.59 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND +(id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 436860.84 msec +(21 rows) + +With set enable_nestloop to off : +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +------------------------------ + Limit (cost=3D55.15..55.16 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D11394.79..11394.82 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D55.15..55.16 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D11394.77..11394.79 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D55.13..55.14 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D11380.12..11394.01 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D +"inner".id_instalacion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D +"inner".id_contenido)) + -> Merge Join (cost=3D45.40..45.41 rows=3D1 width=3D367) +(actual time=3D11358.48..11380.18 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D +"inner".id_instalacion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D +"inner".id_contenido)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.23..5.62 rows= +=3D40 +loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D45.40..45.40 rows=3D1 width=3D35) +(actual time=3D11357.48..11357.68 rows=3D97 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.id_instalacion, +cont_publicacion.id_contenido + -> Index Scan using idx_generar_vainilla_ci +on cont_publicacion (cost=3D0.00..45.39 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual +time=3D48.81..11339.80 rows=3D97 loops=3D1) + Index Cond: +(upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D 'S'::text) + Filter: (fecha_publicacion =3D (subplan)) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=3D15.84..15.84 +rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actual time=3D25.21..25.22 rows=3D1 loops=3D447) + -> Seq Scan on +cont_publicacion cp1 (cost=3D0.00..15.84 rows=3D1 width=3D8) (actual +time=3D10.21..25.07 rows=3D7 loops=3D447) + Filter: ((id_instalacion +=3D $0) AND (id_contenido =3D $1) AND (generar_vainilla =3D $2)) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual +time=3D8.77..8.79 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, +cont_contenido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..9.70 +rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual time=3D0.45..7.41 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND +(id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 11397.66 msec +(22 rows) + + + +Why postgresql don't choose not to use nested loop? Why is more cheap to +use nested loops but It's take a lot of time?=20 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 17:33:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 1F763D1C518; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 20:33:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 45342-06; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:32:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from joeconway.com (66-146-172-86.skyriver.net [66.146.172.86]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 747DCD1C4ED; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:33:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [206.19.64.3] (account jconway HELO joeconway.com) + by joeconway.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) + with ESMTP-TLS id 22796; Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:54:47 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F2EC244.9040107@joeconway.com> +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:29:56 -0700 +From: Joe Conway +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Scott Cain +Cc: Tom Lane , + PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> + <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <1060014341.1434.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <1060014341.1434.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/43 +X-Sequence-Number: 2860 + +Scott Cain wrote: +> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 11:53, Tom Lane wrote: +>>I find it really, really hard to believe that a crude reimplementation +>>in plpgsql of the TOAST concept could beat the built-in implementation +>>at all, let alone beat it by two orders of magnitude. +>> +>>Either there's something unrealistic about your testing of the +>>dna_string function, or your original tests are not causing TOAST to be +>>invoked in the expected way, or there's a bug we need to fix. I'd +>>really like to see some profiling of the poor-performing +>>external-storage case, so we can figure out what's going on. +> +> I was really hoping for a "Good job and glad to hear it" from you :-) +> +> I don't think there is anything unrealistic about my function or its +> testing, as it is very much along the lines of the types of things we do +> now. I will really try to do some profiling this week to help figure +> out what is going on. + +Is there a sample table schema and dataset available (external-storage +case) that we can play with? + +Joe + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 18:14:52 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62EFFD1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:14:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49469-07 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:13:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3345BD1C518 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:14:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 14556 invoked by uid 500); 4 Aug 2003 21:19:51 -0000 +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:19:51 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: "Valsecchi, Patrick" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Indexes not used for "min()" +Message-ID: <20030804211951.GA14522@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: "Valsecchi, Patrick" , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: + <4E2CE3FB9E1B744482F6669A9AE2F72E68F0E8@NSTAREXCH1.windows.nagrastar.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: + <4E2CE3FB9E1B744482F6669A9AE2F72E68F0E8@NSTAREXCH1.windows.nagrastar.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/44 +X-Sequence-Number: 2861 + +On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 15:05:08 -0600, + "Valsecchi, Patrick" wrote: +> Sir, +> +> I did a search with the "index" keyword on the mailing list archive and it did come with no result. Sorry if it's a known bug. + +It isn't a bug. It is a design trade off. The database has no special +knowledge about the min and max aggregate functions that would allow it +to use indexes. + +> But in general, I think the indexes are under used. I have several queries that are taking at least 30 minutes and that would take less than one minute if indexes where used (comes with a comparison I made with Oracle). In particular, I have the feeling that indexes are not used for "IN" statements (within a where clauses). + +There are know performance problems with in. These are addressed in 7.4 +which will be going into beta any time now. You can usually rewrite IN +queries to use exists instead, which will speed things up. + +Also be sure to run analyze (or vacuum analyze) so that the database +server has accurate statistics on which to bases its decisions. + +> On the same subject, I'd add that the ability to provide plan "hints" within the queries (like provided in Oracle) would be helpful. I know that the Postgres optimizer is supposed to do a better job than the one from Oracle, but an optimizer cannot be perfect for every cases. + +"Hints" aren't going to happen. They cause maintainance problems. +You can disable features for a session (such as sequential scans) +and try to get a plan you like. But generally, rather than adding +this to you application code, you should try to find out why the +planner is making the wrong choice. Adjusting the relative costs +for doing things might allow the planner to do a much better job for +you. + +This kind of thing gets discussed on the performance list. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 18:28:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2911D1CA47 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:28:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 52323-01 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:27:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6AFD1CA16 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:28:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h74LS0Sa012727; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:28:01 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Fernando Papa" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +In-reply-to: + +References: + +Comments: In-reply-to "Fernando Papa" + message dated "Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:17:36 -0300" +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:28:00 -0400 +Message-ID: <12726.1060032480@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/45 +X-Sequence-Number: 2862 + +"Fernando Papa" writes: +> -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..1828.46 rows=1 width=367) +> (actual time=7525.51..436843.27 rows=40 loops=1) +> Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido = +> "outer".id_contenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion = +> "outer".id_instalacion)) +> -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config +> (cost=0.00..12.19 rows=40 width=332) (actual time=0.38..6.63 rows=40 +> loops=1) +> -> Index Scan using idx_generar_vainilla_ci on +> cont_publicacion (cost=0.00..45.39 rows=1 width=35) (actual +> time=48.81..10917.53 rows=97 loops=40) +> Index Cond: (upper((generar_vainilla)::text) +> = 'S'::text) +> Filter: (subplan) +> SubPlan +> -> Aggregate (cost=15.85..15.85 rows=1 +> width=8) (actual time=24.30..24.30 rows=0 loops=17880) + +As best I can tell, the problem here is coming from a drastic +underestimate of the number of rows selected by +"upper(generar_vainilla) = 'S'". Evidently there are about 450 such +rows (since in 40 repetitions of the inner index scan, the aggregate +subplan gets evaluated 17880 times), but the planner seems to think +there will be only about two such rows. Had it made a more correct +estimate, it would never have picked a plan that required multiple +repetitions of the indexscan. + +One thing I'm wondering is if you've VACUUM ANALYZEd cont_publicacion +lately --- the cost estimate seems on the small side, and I'm wondering +if the planner thinks the table is much smaller than it really is. But +assuming you didn't make that mistake, the only solution I can see is to +not use a functional index. The planner is not good about making row +count estimates for functional indexes. You could replace the index on +upper(generar_vainilla) with a plain index on generar_vainilla, and +change the query condition from "upper(generar_vainilla) = 'S'" to +"generar_vainilla IN ('S', 's')". I think the planner would have a lot +better chance at understanding the statistics that way. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 19:02:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807B4D1C9EA + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:02:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 52483-07 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:00:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from claxson.com (mx7.claxson.com [200.32.96.144]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C93D1C92D + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:01:53 -0300 (ADT) +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:01:50 -0300 +Message-ID: + +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNaz0sHt731/t0lQyC8djqM8/XJIAAA/1Gg +From: "Fernando Papa" +To: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/46 +X-Sequence-Number: 2863 + + +Thanks Tom. I vaccumed full every night. Now I drop function index and +change the upper. Nothing change (I know, total time rise because we are +doing other things on database now). But you can see, if was any +performace gain i didn't see. Actually I get better results when I +disable nested loops or disable merge joins, as I write in a older post. + +Thanks! + + Limit (cost=3D9.76..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D720480.00..720480.03 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.76..9.76 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D720479.99..720480.00 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion + -> Merge Join (cost=3D9.73..9.75 rows=3D1 width=3D479) (actual +time=3D323197.81..720477.96 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Merge Cond: (("outer".id_instalacion =3D +"inner".id_instalacion) AND ("outer".id_contenido =3D +"inner".id_contenido)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..213197.04 rows=3D4 width=3D36= +7) +(actual time=3D12136.55..720425.66 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) + Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D +"outer".id_contenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D +"outer".id_instalacion)) + -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config +(cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D34.13..92.02 rows= +=3D40 +loops=3D1) + -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion +(cost=3D0.00..5329.47 rows=3D10 width=3D35) (actual time=3D41.74..18004.75 +rows=3D97 loops=3D40) + Filter: (((generar_vainilla =3D 'S'::character +varying) OR (generar_vainilla =3D 's'::character varying)) AND +(fecha_publicacion =3D (subplan))) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=3D11.86..11.86 rows=3D1 +width=3D8) (actual time=3D40.15..40.15 rows=3D1 loops=3D17880) + -> Index Scan using +cont_pub_gen_vainilla on cont_publicacion cp1 (cost=3D0.00..11.86 rows=3D1 +width=3D8) (actual time=3D16.89..40.01 rows=3D7 loops=3D17880) + Index Cond: (generar_vainilla =3D +$2) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D $0) +AND (id_contenido =3D $1)) + -> Sort (cost=3D9.73..9.74 rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual +time=3D30.96..31.00 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Sort Key: cont_contenido.id_instalacion, +cont_contenido.id_contenido + -> Seq Scan on cont_contenido (cost=3D0.00..9.70 +rows=3D3 width=3D112) (actual time=3D0.65..28.98 rows=3D8 loops=3D1) + Filter: ((id_instalacion =3D 2::numeric) AND +(id_sbc =3D 619::numeric) AND (id_tipo =3D 2::numeric)) + Total runtime: 720595.77 msec +(20 rows) + +-----Mensaje original----- +De: Tom Lane [mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us]=20 +Enviado el: lunes, 04 de agosto de 2003 18:28 +Para: Fernando Papa +CC: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Asunto: Re: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 +msec=20 + + +"Fernando Papa" writes: +> -> Nested Loop (cost=3D0.00..1828.46 rows=3D1 width=3D36= +7)=20 +> (actual time=3D7525.51..436843.27 rows=3D40 loops=3D1) +> Join Filter: (("inner".id_contenido =3D +> "outer".id_contenido) AND ("inner".id_instalacion =3D +> "outer".id_instalacion)) +> -> Index Scan using jue_conf_pk on juegos_config + +> (cost=3D0.00..12.19 rows=3D40 width=3D332) (actual time=3D0.38..6.63 rows= +=3D40 +> loops=3D1) +> -> Index Scan using idx_generar_vainilla_ci on=20 +> cont_publicacion (cost=3D0.00..45.39 rows=3D1 width=3D35) (actual=20 +> time=3D48.81..10917.53 rows=3D97 loops=3D40) +> Index Cond:=20 +> (upper((generar_vainilla)::text) =3D 'S'::text) +> Filter: (subplan) +> SubPlan +> -> Aggregate (cost=3D15.85..15.85 rows=3D1 +> width=3D8) (actual time=3D24.30..24.30 rows=3D0 loops=3D17880) + +As best I can tell, the problem here is coming from a drastic +underestimate of the number of rows selected by +"upper(generar_vainilla) =3D 'S'". Evidently there are about 450 such +rows (since in 40 repetitions of the inner index scan, the aggregate +subplan gets evaluated 17880 times), but the planner seems to think +there will be only about two such rows. Had it made a more correct +estimate, it would never have picked a plan that required multiple +repetitions of the indexscan. + +One thing I'm wondering is if you've VACUUM ANALYZEd cont_publicacion +lately --- the cost estimate seems on the small side, and I'm wondering +if the planner thinks the table is much smaller than it really is. But +assuming you didn't make that mistake, the only solution I can see is to +not use a functional index. The planner is not good about making row +count estimates for functional indexes. You could replace the index on=20 +upper(generar_vainilla) with a plain index on generar_vainilla, and +change the query condition from "upper(generar_vainilla) =3D 'S'" to +"generar_vainilla IN ('S', 's')". I think the planner would have a lot +better chance at understanding the statistics that way. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 19:31:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A270ED1CA0F + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:30:58 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 52476-09 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:29:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F748D1CA0E + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:30:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h74MUlSa013406; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:30:47 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Fernando Papa" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +In-reply-to: + +References: + +Comments: In-reply-to "Fernando Papa" + message dated "Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:01:50 -0300" +Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:30:47 -0400 +Message-ID: <13405.1060036247@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/47 +X-Sequence-Number: 2864 + +"Fernando Papa" writes: +> Thanks Tom. I vaccumed full every night. Now I drop function index and +> change the upper. Nothing change (I know, total time rise because we are +> doing other things on database now). + +> -> Seq Scan on cont_publicacion +> (cost=0.00..5329.47 rows=10 width=35) (actual time=41.74..18004.75 +> rows=97 loops=40) +> Filter: (((generar_vainilla = 'S'::character +> varying) OR (generar_vainilla = 's'::character varying)) AND +> (fecha_publicacion = (subplan))) +> SubPlan +> -> Aggregate (cost=11.86..11.86 rows=1 +> width=8) (actual time=40.15..40.15 rows=1 loops=17880) + +Something fishy going on here. Why did it switch to a seqscan, +considering it still (mistakenly) thinks there are only going to be 10 +or 20 rows matching the generar_vainilla condition? How many rows have +generar_vainilla equal to 's' or 'S', anyway? + +In any case, the real problem is to get rid of the subselect at the +Now that I look at your original query, I see that what you really seem +to be after is the publications with latest pub date among each group with +identical id_instalacion, id_contenido, and generar_vainilla. You would +probably do well to reorganize the query using SELECT DISTINCT ON, viz + +SELECT * FROM +(SELECT DISTINCT ON (id_instalacion, id_contenido, generar_vainilla) + ... + FROM ... + WHERE ... + ORDER BY + id_instalacion, id_contenido, generar_vainilla, fecha_publicacion DESC) +AS ss +ORDER BY fecha_publicacion desc +LIMIT 10 +OFFSET 0 + +See the "weather reports" example in the SELECT reference page for +motivation. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 19:54:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 02685D1CA16; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:54:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 55439-06; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:53:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id D525FD1C9DE; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:54:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h74MrXPB003385; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:53:33 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 16:40:11 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Jenny Zhang +Cc: , , + , , + +Subject: Re: [osdldbt-general] Re: [PERFORM] OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is +In-Reply-To: <1060037335.2144.1086.camel@ibm-a> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/193 +X-Sequence-Number: 46610 + +On 4 Aug 2003, Jenny Zhang wrote: + +> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 06:33, Manfred Koizar wrote: +> > | effective_cache_size | 1000 +> > +> > With 4GB of memory this is definitely too low and *can* (note that I +> > don't say *must*) lead the planner to wrong decisions. +> > +> I changed the default to effective_cache_size=393216 as calculated by +> Scott. Another way to check the execution plan is to go to the results +> dir: +> http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276917/results +> There is a 'power_plan.out' file to record the execution plan. I am +> running a test with the changed effective_cache_size, I will see how it +> affect the plan. +> +> > | shared_buffers | 15200 +> > +> > ... looks reasonable. Did you test with other values? +> I have only one with shared_buffers=1200000 at: +> http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276847/ +> The performance degraded. + +Well, that's truly huge, even for a machine with lots-o-ram. Most tests +find that once the shared_buffers are big enough to use more than about 25 +to 33% of RAM, they're too big, as you get little return. + +> > | sort_mem | 524288 +> > +> > This is a bit high, IMHO, but might be ok given that DBT3 is not run +> > with many concurrent sessions (right?). +> > http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/results/plot/vmstat_swap.png shows +> > some swapping activity towards the end of the run which could be +> > caused by a too high sort_mem setting. +> Right, I run only 4 streams. Setting this parameter lower caused more +> reading/writing to the pgsql/tmp. I guess the database has to do it if +> it can not do sorting in memory. + +Note that IF your sortmem really is 1/2 gig, then you'll likely have LESS +than 3 gigs left for OS system cache. About how big does top show buff +and cached to be on that box under load? Not that it's a big deal if you +get the effective cache size off by a little bit, it's more of a rubber +mallet setting than a jeweler's screw driver setting. + + +Thanks a bunch for all the great testing. It's a very nice tool to have +for convincing the bosses to go with Postgresql. + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 23:32:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 83E20D1C9ED; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:48:56 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 56766-07; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:47:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.osdl.org (fw.osdl.org [65.172.181.6]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 8BDF6D1C91C; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:48:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from bullpen.pdx.osdl.net (bullpen.pdx.osdl.net [172.20.1.53]) + by mail.osdl.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h74MmeI31462; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:48:40 -0700 +Subject: Re: [osdldbt-general] Re: [PERFORM] OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is +From: Craig Thomas +To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, pgsql-general@postgresql.org, + osdldbt-general@lists.sourceforge.net +In-Reply-To: <3F2ED997.25642.6C9A5E@localhost> +References: <1059761051.1535.396.camel@ibm-a> + <3F2ED997.25642.6C9A5E@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: +Message-Id: <1060037311.24401.155.camel@bullpen.pdx.osdl.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4 +Date: 04 Aug 2003 15:48:31 -0700 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/201 +X-Sequence-Number: 46618 + +On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 09:39, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> On 4 Aug 2003 at 15:33, Manfred Koizar wrote: +> +> > On 01 Aug 2003 11:04:10 -0700, Jenny Zhang wrote: +> > >A sample OSDL-DBT3 test result report can be found at: +> > >http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/ +> > > +> > >Your comments are welcome, +> +> I could not get postgresql .conf so I will combine the comments. +> +> 1. Effective cache size, already mentioned +> 2. Sort memory already mentioned. +> 3. Was WAL put on different drive? +> 4. Can you try with autovacuum daemon and 7.4beta when it comes out.. +> 5. What was the file system? Ext2/Ext3/reiser/XFS? +> +> +> +> Is there any comparison available for other databases.. Could be interesting to +> see..:-) + +OSDL has run workloads using the SAP DB and PostgreSQL. However, each +of the workloads have been tweaked to work around deficiencies of each +database with respect to the TPC benchmarks from with the DBT workloads +are derrived. Since there are extensive modifications to each workload +an that the fact that each workload operates under different situations +(SAP uses raw disk, PostgreSQL uses a file system), it is not beneficial +to compare numbers between different databases. + +Remember, the intent is to provide a tool kit that can be used to +benefit the community. From other postings, it appears that these +workloads we have available can be used to help the PostgreSQl community +develop a better database; one that is better able to handle the kinds +of stress these workloads can produce when scaled to large database +sizes. + +We have been using these kits to characterize the abilities of the Linux +kernel. To show that these workloads work with two different databases +implies that Linux is capable of supporting these two databases. + +The other tool kits, by the way, are being ported to PostgreSQL as well. +Help is needed to tune the workloads to exercise PostgreSQL better. It +would be great if you could get involved with the porting efforts and +assist with the tuning of the PostgreSQL kit. + + +> +> +> +> Thanks for the good work. I understand it must have been quite an effort to run +> it.. +> +> Keep it up.. +> +> Bye +> Shridhar +> +> -- +> Fourth Law of Revision: It is usually impractical to worry beforehand about +> interferences -- if you have none, someone will make one for you. +> +> +> +> ------------------------------------------------------- +> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including +> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. +> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. +> http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 +> _______________________________________________ +> osdldbt-general mailing list +> osdldbt-general@lists.sourceforge.net +> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/osdldbt-general +-- +Craig Thomas +craiger@osdl.org + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 19:42:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 95C50D1CA0E; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:42:00 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 53565-07; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:40:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.osdl.org (fw.osdl.org [65.172.181.6]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 0DCE0D1CA13; Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:41:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ibm-a.pdx.osdl.net (ibm-a.pdx.osdl.net [172.20.1.50]) + by mail.osdl.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h74MfUI30462; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:41:30 -0700 +Subject: Re: [osdldbt-general] Re: [PERFORM] OSDL Database Test Suite 3 is +From: Jenny Zhang +To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, scott.marlowe@ihs.com, + mkoi-pg@aon.at +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, pgsql-general@postgresql.org, + osdldbt-general@lists.sourceforge.net +In-Reply-To: <3F2ED997.25642.6C9A5E@localhost> +References: <1059761051.1535.396.camel@ibm-a> + <3F2ED997.25642.6C9A5E@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.5 +Date: 04 Aug 2003 15:48:55 -0700 +Message-Id: <1060037335.2144.1086.camel@ibm-a> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/192 +X-Sequence-Number: 46609 + +Thanks all for your feedback. + +I think I should explain more about how to use this test kit. + +The main purpose of putting the test kit on Scalability Test +Platform(STP) is that testers can run the workload against the database +with different parameters and Linux kernels to see performance +differences. Though the test kit picks up default parameters if they +are not provided, the command line parameters overwrite the default +ones. Currently, the following parameters are supported: +-s -n -d '' -r +<{0|1}> -x <{0|1}> + +where: +-s is tpc-h database scale factor, right now, only SF=1 +is available. + +-n is the number of throughput test streams, which +corresponds number of simultaneous database connections during +throughput test. + +-d is the database parameters used when starting +postmaster. for example: +-B 120000 -c effective_cache_size=393216 -c sort_mem=524288 -c +stats_command_string=true -c stats_row_level=true -c +stats_block_level=true + +-r {0|1}: indicates if the database dir base//pgsql_tmp is +put on a separate disk drive + +-x {0|1}: indicates if the WAL is put on a separate disk drive. + +The other comments are in-lined: + +On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 06:33, Manfred Koizar wrote: +> | effective_cache_size | 1000 +> +> With 4GB of memory this is definitely too low and *can* (note that I +> don't say *must*) lead the planner to wrong decisions. +> +I changed the default to effective_cache_size=393216 as calculated by +Scott. Another way to check the execution plan is to go to the results +dir: +http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276917/results +There is a 'power_plan.out' file to record the execution plan. I am +running a test with the changed effective_cache_size, I will see how it +affect the plan. + +> | shared_buffers | 15200 +> +> ... looks reasonable. Did you test with other values? +I have only one with shared_buffers=1200000 at: +http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276847/ +The performance degraded. +> +> | sort_mem | 524288 +> +> This is a bit high, IMHO, but might be ok given that DBT3 is not run +> with many concurrent sessions (right?). +> http://khack.osdl.org/stp/276912/results/plot/vmstat_swap.png shows +> some swapping activity towards the end of the run which could be +> caused by a too high sort_mem setting. +Right, I run only 4 streams. Setting this parameter lower caused more +reading/writing to the pgsql/tmp. I guess the database has to do it if +it can not do sorting in memory. + +On 4 Aug 2003 at 15:33, Manfred Koizar wrote: +> +> I could not get postgresql .conf so I will combine the comments. +It is under database monitor data: database parameters +> +> 1. Effective cache size, already mentioned +> 2. Sort memory already mentioned. +> 3. Was WAL put on different drive? +That run did not put WAL on different drive. I changed it this morning +so that it is configurable. Also I changed the result page so that the +testers can tell from the result page. +> 4. Can you try with autovacuum daemon and 7.4beta when it comes out.. +I'd be happy to run it. We would like to improve out Patch Life +Management(PLM) system so that it can accept PG patches and run +performance tests on those patches. Right now PLM only manages Linux +Kernel patches. I would like to ask the PostgreSQL community if this +kind of tools is of interest. +> 5. What was the file system? Ext2/Ext3/reiser/XFS? +> +> +> +It is Ext2. Yeah, it is not reported on the page. +> Is there any comparison available for other databases.. Could be interesting to +> see..:-) +> +> +> + +Let me know if you have any suggestions about how to improve the test +kit (parameters, reported information, etc.), or how to make it more +useful to PG community. + +Thanks, +-- +Jenny Zhang +Open Source Development Lab Inc +12725 SW Millikan Way +Suite 400 +Beaverton, OR 97005 +(503)626-2455 ext 31 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 4 20:36:27 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3BDD1C911 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:36:25 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 59171-02 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 20:35:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from email04.aon.at (WARSL402PIP5.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D879BD1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 4 Aug 2003 20:36:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 233882 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2003 23:36:16 -0000 +Received: from m170p001.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO cantor) + ([62.46.11.33]) (envelope-sender ) + by qmail4rs.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 4 Aug 2003 23:36:16 -0000 +From: Manfred Koizar +To: Manfred Koizar +Cc: "Fernando Papa" , + +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:36:27 +0200 +Message-ID: <95rtivs8a4oqhc52ej0gq2k9o0c3nm29pl@4ax.com> +References: + + +In-Reply-To: +X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/51 +X-Sequence-Number: 2868 + +On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:10:18 +0200, I wrote: +>SELECT DISTINCT ON ( +> cp.id_instalacion, +> cp.id_contenido, +> cp.generar_vainilla, +> cp.fecha_publicacion +> ) + +Cut'n'paste error! fecha_publicacion should not be in the DISTINCT ON +list. The same error is in my second suggestion (FROM (subselect)). + +Servus + Manfred + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 03:23:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE88D1C914 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:23:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 88383-05 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 03:22:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.shcom.de (unknown [193.99.50.2]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DECD1CA05 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 03:23:37 -0300 (ADT) +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +Subject: Re: I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:22:58 +0200 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 +Message-ID: +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] I can't wait too much: Total runtime 432478.44 msec +Thread-Index: AcNbGhA60HskNo/HTMqOKi9eBP3atA== +From: "Volker Helm" +To: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/52 +X-Sequence-Number: 2869 + +Sorry Guy, + +was just a little tired yesterday. + +> Err... you're right... one of us say the same thing when I show the +> Volker mail... + +Try to make a group by in the inline-view, so you will get something +like this: + +>=20 +> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:02:46 -0300, "Fernando Papa" +> wrote: +> > FROM=20 +> > cont_contenido=20=20=20 +> > ,juegos_config=20=20=20=20 +> > ,cont_publicacion=20 +> > ,(SELECT id_instalacion, + id_contenido, + generar_vainilla, + max(cp1.fecha_publicacion) as max_pub=20=20 + FROM cont_publicacion cp1 + GROUP BY id_instalacion,id_contenido,generar_vainilla) a=20=20 +where=20 + ... + AND a.id_instalacion =3D cont_publicacion.id_instalacion + AND a.id_contenido =3D cont_publicacion.id_contenido + AND a.generar_vainilla =3D cont_publicacion.generar_vainilla + AND a.max_pub =3D cont_publicacion.fecha_publicacion=20 + + +Sorry for this missing group. + +Bye, + +Volker + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 06:45:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD77D1C97F + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:40:21 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 97760-02 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:39:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lassen.berkeley.edu (lassen.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.102]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0FCD1C932 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:40:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by lassen.berkeley.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h759eAIm008680 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 02:40:11 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from ara (66-215-20-38.gln-mres.charterpipeline.net [66.215.20.38]) + by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.12.9/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h759e5Ur083791 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 02:40:07 -0700 (PDT) +Message-ID: <000501c35b34$9c945660$6401a8c0@charterpipeline.net> +Reply-To: "Ara Anjargolian" +From: "Ara Anjargolian" +To: +Subject: query/table design help +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 02:33:17 -0700 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/53 +X-Sequence-Number: 2870 + +I have a table +permissions +with the fields (party_id integer, permission varchar, key_name varchar, +key_value integer) +for which I need to a query to see if a person has permission to carry out a +particular action. +The query looks like: +SELECT 1 +FROM permissions +WHERE party_id in (4, 7, 11, 26) + AND + permission = 'permission8' + AND + ((key_name = 'keyname8' AND key_value = 223) OR + (key_name = 'keyname1' AND key_value = 123) OR + (key_name = 'keyname5' AND key_value = 212) OR + (key_name = 'keyname7' AND key_value = 523) OR + (key_name = 'keyname0' AND key_value = 123) OR + (key_name = 'keyname10' AND key_value = 400)); + +would a permissions(party_id, permission) index work best here? +or should I index all 4 columns? + +Also, +Another alternative is to combine the key_name and key_value fields into a +varchar +field key (e. g. 'keyname8=223'), in which case the equilalent query would +just check +1 field 6 times instead of having 6 ANDstatements. + +I expect the table to have about 1 million rows at the most, and I need this +query to run as fast +as possible since it will be run many, many times. +So, from a design standpoint, what is the the best way to go, should I have +two fields key_name, and key_value, +or just one field key. And how should I index this table best. I guess the +fundamental question here is, is it faster +to check a varchar(60) field for equality, or to check two check an integer +and then a varchar(30). Or does having +one varchar field replace an integer and a varchar field, allow for some +nice optimization not practical otherwise (i.e a 3-column index). + +I'd greatly appreciate any insight into this matter. +-Ara Anjargolian + + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 06:56:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AA1D1C932 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:56:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 95614-09 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:54:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12CCED1CA01 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:56:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h759uEfZ031662 + for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:26:14 +0530 +Received: from daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in + [192.168.7.161]) (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h759uDip031636; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:26:13 +0530 +From: Shridhar Daithankar +To: "Ara Anjargolian" +Subject: Re: query/table design help +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:27:50 +0530 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 +References: <000501c35b34$9c945660$6401a8c0@charterpipeline.net> +In-Reply-To: <000501c35b34$9c945660$6401a8c0@charterpipeline.net> +Cc: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308051527.50790.shridhar_daithankar@nospam.persistent.co.in> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/54 +X-Sequence-Number: 2871 + +On Tuesday 05 August 2003 15:03, Ara Anjargolian wrote: +> I have a table +> permissions +> with the fields (party_id integer, permission varchar, key_name varchar, +> key_value integer) +> for which I need to a query to see if a person has permission to carry out +> a particular action. +> The query looks like: +> SELECT 1 +> FROM permissions +> WHERE party_id in (4, 7, 11, 26) +> AND +> permission = 'permission8' +> AND +> ((key_name = 'keyname8' AND key_value = 223) OR +> (key_name = 'keyname1' AND key_value = 123) OR +> (key_name = 'keyname5' AND key_value = 212) OR +> (key_name = 'keyname7' AND key_value = 523) OR +> (key_name = 'keyname0' AND key_value = 123) OR +> (key_name = 'keyname10' AND key_value = 400)); +> +> would a permissions(party_id, permission) index work best here? +> or should I index all 4 columns? +> +> Also, +> Another alternative is to combine the key_name and key_value fields into a +> varchar +> field key (e. g. 'keyname8=223'), in which case the equilalent query would +> just check +> 1 field 6 times instead of having 6 ANDstatements. +> +> I expect the table to have about 1 million rows at the most, and I need +> this query to run as fast +> as possible since it will be run many, many times. + +I would suggest a 3 column table with party id, action and permission. Index +on partyid and action. + +If table is static enough clustering should help. + + But this is one of many possible ways to design it. There could be other +details that can affect this decision. + + Shridhar + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 09:09:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E993D1C514 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:09:26 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 02365-04 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:08:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C22ABD1C4E0 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:09:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 68921 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2003 12:09:20 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 5 Aug 2003 12:09:20 -0000 +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:09:19 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Some vacuum & tuning help +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/55 +X-Sequence-Number: 2872 + +I've been trying to search through the archives, but it hasn't been +successful. + +We recently upgraded from pg7.0.2 to 7.3.4 and things were happy. I'm +trying to fine tune things to get it running a bit better and I'm trying +to figure out how vacuum output correlates to tuning parameters. + +Here's the msot recent vacuum for the "active" table. It gets a few +hundred updates/inserts a minute constantly throughout the day. + +INFO: Pages 27781: Changed 0, Empty 0; Tup 2451648: Vac 0, Keep 0, UnUsed +1003361. + Total CPU 2.18s/0.61u sec elapsed 2.78 sec. + +I see unused is quite high. This morning I bumped max_fsm_pages to 500000. +If I'm thinking right you want unused and max_fsm to be closish, right? +(Yesterday it was down around.. oh.. 600k?) + +I'm thinking vacuum full's may be in order. Which stinks because I was +hoping to do away with the db essentially down for 10 minutes (includes +all the db's on that machine) while it vacuum'd. + +The upside is: it is performing great. During the vacuum analyze I do get +a few multi-second pauses while something occurs. I figured it was a +checkpoint, so I bumped checkpoint_timeout to 30 seconds and wal_buffers +to 128. (I'm just guessing on wal_buffers). + +Machine is weenucks 2.2.17 on a dual p3 800, 2gb ram, 18gb drive (mirrored). +If you guys need other info (shared_buffers, etc) I'll be happy to funish +them. but the issue isn't query slowness.. just want to get this thing +oiled). + +thanks + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 09:35:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2FAD1C7EF + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:33:45 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 05748-05 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:32:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4597D1C4B7 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:33:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h75CXpar015954 + for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:03:51 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75CXoip015940 + for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:03:51 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 18:05:26 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F2FF1E6.10579.651E89@localhost> +In-reply-to: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/56 +X-Sequence-Number: 2873 + +On 5 Aug 2003 at 8:09, Jeff wrote: + +> I've been trying to search through the archives, but it hasn't been +> successful. +> +> We recently upgraded from pg7.0.2 to 7.3.4 and things were happy. I'm +> trying to fine tune things to get it running a bit better and I'm trying +> to figure out how vacuum output correlates to tuning parameters. +> +> Here's the msot recent vacuum for the "active" table. It gets a few +> hundred updates/inserts a minute constantly throughout the day. + +I would suggest autovacuum daemon which is in CVS contrib works for 7.3.x as +well.. Or schedule a vacuum analyze every 15 minutes or so.. +> +> INFO: Pages 27781: Changed 0, Empty 0; Tup 2451648: Vac 0, Keep 0, UnUsed +> 1003361. +> Total CPU 2.18s/0.61u sec elapsed 2.78 sec. +> +> I see unused is quite high. This morning I bumped max_fsm_pages to 500000. +> If I'm thinking right you want unused and max_fsm to be closish, right? +> (Yesterday it was down around.. oh.. 600k?) +> +> I'm thinking vacuum full's may be in order. Which stinks because I was +> hoping to do away with the db essentially down for 10 minutes (includes +> all the db's on that machine) while it vacuum'd. + +I think vacuum full is required. + +> The upside is: it is performing great. During the vacuum analyze I do get +> a few multi-second pauses while something occurs. I figured it was a +> checkpoint, so I bumped checkpoint_timeout to 30 seconds and wal_buffers +> to 128. (I'm just guessing on wal_buffers). + +If it is couple of tables that are that heavily killed, I would suggest to a +pg_dump, drop table and reload table. That should take less time. Your downtime +might not be 10 minutes but more like 15 say. That's a rough estimate.. + +> +> Machine is weenucks 2.2.17 on a dual p3 800, 2gb ram, 18gb drive (mirrored). + +You mean linux? I guess you need a kernel revision for a long time. How about +2.4.21? + +> If you guys need other info (shared_buffers, etc) I'll be happy to funish +> them. but the issue isn't query slowness.. just want to get this thing +> oiled). + +See if this helps.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +QOTD: "I thought I saw a unicorn on the way over, but it was just a horse with +one of the horns broken off." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 10:16:29 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91888D1C932 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:15:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 08056-02 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:14:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.blueyonder.co.uk (pc-62-30-143-217-gl.blueyonder.co.uk + [62.30.143.217]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A3DED1C4B7 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:15:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from reddragon.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost) + by smtp.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19k1f6-0002u4-00 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 14:15:36 +0100 +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:15:36 +0100 (BST) +From: Peter Childs +X-X-Sender: peter@RedDragon.Childs +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-Reply-To: <3F2FF1E6.10579.651E89@localhost> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/57 +X-Sequence-Number: 2874 + +On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: + +> On 5 Aug 2003 at 8:09, Jeff wrote: +> +> I would suggest autovacuum daemon which is in CVS contrib works for 7.3.x as +> well.. Or schedule a vacuum analyze every 15 minutes or so.. + + I've just got autovacum up and Since we have had a lot of talk +about it recently..... I thought some feed back might be useful. + It seams to work quite well. But can be rather zelous on its +analysing for the first few hours. Curretly its analysig static (ie +nothigs changed) tables every 10minites. Vacuums seam to be about right. + I think that many vacuums may be slowing does my database.... + +Peter Childs + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 10:21:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4C6D1C932 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:18:41 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06618-10 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:17:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FEA9D1C4B7 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:18:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 69207 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2003 13:18:37 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 5 Aug 2003 13:18:37 -0000 +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:18:37 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Shridhar Daithankar +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-Reply-To: <3F2FF1E6.10579.651E89@localhost> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/59 +X-Sequence-Number: 2876 + +On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> +> I would suggest autovacuum daemon which is in CVS contrib works for 7.3.x as +> well.. Or schedule a vacuum analyze every 15 minutes or so.. +> > + +Good Call. I'll give that a whirl and let you know. + +> I think vacuum full is required. +> +D'oh. Would this be a regular thing? I suppose we could do it weekly. + +As for the pg_dumping of it. I suppose it would work on this table as it +is only a couple million rows and not terribly big data-wise. The other +tables in this db are rather big and a load is not fast. (It is about +8GB). + +thanks + +> You mean linux? I guess you need a kernel revision for a long time. How about +> 2.4.21? +> +Yeah, linux. We're planning on upgrading when we relocate datacenters at +the end of August. This machine has actually been up for 486 days (We're +hoping to reach linux's uptime wraparound of 496 days :) and the only +reason it went down then was because the power supply failed. (That can +be read: pg7.0.2 had over a year of uptime. lets hope 7.3 works as good :) + + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 10:21:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240A4D1C9CE + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:19:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 07537-03 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:18:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lorraine.ipl.co.uk (lorraine.ipl.co.uk [195.112.52.123]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EEFCD1C9C9 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:19:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from HFPORT.dmr.co.uk ([195.112.52.21]) + by lorraine.ipl.co.uk (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75DJDD4014804; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:19:16 +0100 +Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030805141440.06a69140@mailserver.ipl.co.uk> +X-Sender: hf1@mailserver.ipl.co.uk +X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 14:20:01 +0100 +To: scott.marlowe@ihs.com +From: Hilary Forbes +Subject: Fwd: Re: postgresql.conf +Cc: "Robert Treat" , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/58 +X-Sequence-Number: 2875 + +Scott + +>For example, a dedicated database for a webserver would be tuned +>differently from a server that was running both the webserver and the database on +>the same machine. + +This is the situation I'm having fun and games with so I'd be very interested. (Client has made the mistake of putting Mr Gates firewall in between the two to add to my woes!!) + +Looking forward to seeing the outcome of your documentation immensely. +Many thanks + +Hilary + + + +Hilary Forbes +------------- +DMR Computer Limited: http://www.dmr.co.uk/ +Direct line: 01689 889950 +Switchboard: (44) 1689 860000 Fax: (44) 1689 860330 +E-mail: hforbes@dmr.co.uk + +********************************************************** + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 10:33:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D9A4D1C9D8 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:33:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 10189-02 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:32:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9F2D1C9C9 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:33:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h75DXUjg002985 + for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:03:30 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75DXUip002972 + for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:03:30 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:05:05 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F2FFFE1.6163.9BBBFB@localhost> +In-reply-to: +References: <3F2FF1E6.10579.651E89@localhost> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/60 +X-Sequence-Number: 2877 + +On 5 Aug 2003 at 9:18, Jeff wrote: +> As for the pg_dumping of it. I suppose it would work on this table as it +> is only a couple million rows and not terribly big data-wise. The other +> tables in this db are rather big and a load is not fast. (It is about +> 8GB). + +You need to dump only those table which has unusualy high unused stats. If that +is a small table, dump/reload it would be far faster than vacuum.. For others +vacuum analyse should do.. + +> > You mean linux? I guess you need a kernel revision for a long time. How about +> > 2.4.21? +> > +> Yeah, linux. We're planning on upgrading when we relocate datacenters at +> the end of August. This machine has actually been up for 486 days (We're +> hoping to reach linux's uptime wraparound of 496 days :) and the only +> reason it went down then was because the power supply failed. (That can +> be read: pg7.0.2 had over a year of uptime. lets hope 7.3 works as good :) + +Good to know that. AFAIK, the 496 wraparound is fixed in 2.6. So that won't be +a complaint any longer.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Gravity: What you get when you eat too much and too fast. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 10:46:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1031D1C9DE + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:46:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 07537-05 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:45:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1B0AD1C9D8 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:46:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h75Dl1is005777 + for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:17:01 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75Dkxir005751 + for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:17:00 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:18:33 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F300309.24908.A81164@localhost> +In-reply-to: +References: <3F2FF1E6.10579.651E89@localhost> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/61 +X-Sequence-Number: 2878 + +On 5 Aug 2003 at 14:15, Peter Childs wrote: + +> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> +> > On 5 Aug 2003 at 8:09, Jeff wrote: +> > +> > I would suggest autovacuum daemon which is in CVS contrib works for 7.3.x as +> > well.. Or schedule a vacuum analyze every 15 minutes or so.. +> +> I've just got autovacum up and Since we have had a lot of talk +> about it recently..... I thought some feed back might be useful. +> It seams to work quite well. But can be rather zelous on its +> analysing for the first few hours. Curretly its analysig static (ie +> nothigs changed) tables every 10minites. Vacuums seam to be about right. +> I think that many vacuums may be slowing does my database.... + +IIRC there is per operation threshold. If update threshold is 5% and table is +2% updatedit, then it should not look at it at all. + +It's worth mentioning that you should start auto vacuum daemon on a clean +database. i.e. no pending vacuum. It is not supposed to start with a database +which has lots of clean up pending. The essence of auto vacuum daemon is to +maintain a clean database in clean state.. + +I agree, specifying per table thresholds would be good in autovacuum.. + + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +WYSIWYG: What You See Is What You Get. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 11:16:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C71DD1C9E8 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:16:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 07483-08 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:15:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.blueyonder.co.uk (pc-62-30-143-217-gl.blueyonder.co.uk + [62.30.143.217]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C2AD1C9C9 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:16:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from reddragon.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost) + by smtp.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 19k2cf-0002y5-00 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 15:17:09 +0100 +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:17:09 +0100 (BST) +From: Peter Childs +X-X-Sender: peter@RedDragon.Childs +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-Reply-To: <3F300309.24908.A81164@localhost> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/62 +X-Sequence-Number: 2879 + +On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: + +> On 5 Aug 2003 at 14:15, Peter Childs wrote: +> +> > On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> > +> > > On 5 Aug 2003 at 8:09, Jeff wrote: +> > > +> > > I would suggest autovacuum daemon which is in CVS contrib works for 7.3.x as +> > > well.. Or schedule a vacuum analyze every 15 minutes or so.. +> > +> > I've just got autovacum up and Since we have had a lot of talk +> > about it recently..... I thought some feed back might be useful. +> > It seams to work quite well. But can be rather zelous on its +> > analysing for the first few hours. Curretly its analysig static (ie +> > nothigs changed) tables every 10minites. Vacuums seam to be about right. +> > I think that many vacuums may be slowing does my database.... + + Sorry typo big time + +it should read + +"I think that may analysing may may be slowing down my database. + +> +> IIRC there is per operation threshold. If update threshold is 5% and table is +> 2% updatedit, then it should not look at it at all. + + I left it with debug over night and it improved to that after 5 +hours. switch the debug down (to 1) this morning and it has not settled +down yet. + +> +> It's worth mentioning that you should start auto vacuum daemon on a clean +> database. i.e. no pending vacuum. It is not supposed to start with a database +> which has lots of clean up pending. The essence of auto vacuum daemon is to +> maintain a clean database in clean state.. +> +> I agree, specifying per table thresholds would be good in autovacuum.. + +Peter Childs + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 11:29:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F416D1C9CF + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:29:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 13284-07 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:28:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93F8D1C9C8 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:29:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from dev6.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.212] helo=libertyrms.info) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19k2oY-0007aT-00; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:29:26 -0400 +Received: by libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1079) + id 470F9BBADC; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:29:26 -0400 (EDT) +To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, "Matthew T. O'Connor" +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +From: Christopher Browne +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:29:26 -0400 +Message-ID: <60el00jhyx.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/63 +X-Sequence-Number: 2880 + +Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> I agree, specifying per table thresholds would be good in autovacuum.. + +Which begs the question of what the future direction is for pg_autovacuum. + +There would be some merit to having pg_autovacuum throw in some tables +in which to store persistent information, and at that point, it would +make sense to add some flags to support the respective notions that: + + -> Some tables should _never_ be touched; + + -> Some tables might get "reset" to indicate that they should be + considered as having been recently vacuumed, or perhaps that they + badly need vacuuming; + + -> As you suggest, per-table thresholds; + + -> pg_autovacuum would know when tables were last vacuumed by + it... + + -> You could record vacuum times to tell pg_autovacuum that you + vacuumed something "behind its back." + + -> If the system queued up proposed vacuums by having a "queue" + table, you could request that pg_autovacuum do a vacuum on a + particular table at the next opportunity. + +All well and interesting stuff that could be worth implementing. + +But the usual talk has been about ultimately integrating the +functionality into the backend, making it fairly futile to enhance +pg_autovacuum terribly much. + +Unfortunately, the "integrate into the backend" thing has long seemed +"just around the corner." I think we should either: + a) Decide to enhance pg_autovacuum, or + b) Not. + +In view of how long the "better answers" seem to be taking to emerge, +I think it makes sense to add functionality to pg_autovacuum. +-- +output = reverse("ofni.smrytrebil" "@" "enworbbc") + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 11:38:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23D1ED1C932 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:38:06 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 11804-07 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:36:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C46D1C9C8 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:37:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75EbwSa022365; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:37:59 -0400 (EDT) +To: Jeff +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-reply-to: +References: +Comments: In-reply-to Jeff + message dated "Tue, 05 Aug 2003 08:09:19 -0400" +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:37:58 -0400 +Message-ID: <22364.1060094278@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/64 +X-Sequence-Number: 2881 + +Jeff writes: +> Here's the msot recent vacuum for the "active" table. It gets a few +> hundred updates/inserts a minute constantly throughout the day. + +> INFO: Pages 27781: Changed 0, Empty 0; Tup 2451648: Vac 0, Keep 0, UnUsed +> 1003361. +> Total CPU 2.18s/0.61u sec elapsed 2.78 sec. + +> I see unused is quite high. This morning I bumped max_fsm_pages to 500000. +> If I'm thinking right you want unused and max_fsm to be closish, right? + +No, they're unrelated. UnUsed is the number of currently-unused tuple +pointers in page headers, whereas the FSM parameters are measured in +pages. 30000 FSM slots would be more than enough for this table. + +The above numbers don't seem terribly unreasonable to me, although +probably UnUsed would be smaller if you'd been vacuuming more often. +If you see UnUsed continuing to increase then you definitely ought to +shorten the intervacuum time. + +VACUUM FULL does not reclaim unused tuple pointers AFAIR, except where +it is able to release entire pages at the end of the relation. So if +you really wanted to get back down to nil UnUsed, you'd need to do a +dump and reload of the table (or near equivalent, such as CLUSTER). +Not sure it's worth the trouble. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 11:43:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F344AD1C9CF + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:41:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 12778-09 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:40:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6E9D1C9C9 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:41:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h75Eg5IP018951 + for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:12:05 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75Eg4ip018925; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:12:05 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, "Matthew T. O'Connor" +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 20:13:39 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F300FF3.7064.DA8047@localhost> +In-reply-to: <60el00jhyx.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/65 +X-Sequence-Number: 2882 + +On 5 Aug 2003 at 10:29, Christopher Browne wrote: + +> Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> > I agree, specifying per table thresholds would be good in autovacuum.. +> +> Which begs the question of what the future direction is for pg_autovacuum. +> +> There would be some merit to having pg_autovacuum throw in some tables +> in which to store persistent information, and at that point, it would +> make sense to add some flags to support the respective notions that: + +Well, the C++ version I wrote quite a while back, which resides on gborg and +unmaintained, did that. It was considered as table pollution. However whenever +autovacuum stuff goes in backend as such, it is going to need a catalogue. + +> -> Some tables should _never_ be touched; + +That can be determined runtime from stats. Not required as a special feature +IMHO.. + +> +> -> Some tables might get "reset" to indicate that they should be +> considered as having been recently vacuumed, or perhaps that they +> badly need vacuuming; + +Well, stats collector takes care of that. Autovacuum daemon reads that +statistics, maintain a periodic snapshot of the same to determine whether or +not it needs to vacuum. + +Why it crawls for a dirty database is as follows. Autovauum daemon starts, read +statistics, sets it as base level and let a cycle pass, which is typically few +minutes. When it goes again, it finds that lots of things are modified and need +vacuum and so it triggers vacuum. + +Now vacuum goes on cleaning entire table which might be days job continously +postponed some one reason or another. Oops.. your database is on it's knees.. + + +> -> As you suggest, per-table thresholds; + +I would rather put it in terms of pages. If any table wastes 100 pages each, it +deserves a vacuum.. + + +> -> pg_autovacuum would know when tables were last vacuumed by +> it... + +If you maintain a table in database, there are lot of things you can maintain. +And you need to connect to database anyway to fire vacuum.. + + +> -> You could record vacuum times to tell pg_autovacuum that you +> vacuumed something "behind its back." + +It should notice.. + +> -> If the system queued up proposed vacuums by having a "queue" +> table, you could request that pg_autovacuum do a vacuum on a +> particular table at the next opportunity. + +That won't ever happen if autovacuum is constantly running.. + +> Unfortunately, the "integrate into the backend" thing has long seemed +> "just around the corner." I think we should either: +> a) Decide to enhance pg_autovacuum, or +> b) Not. + +In fact, I would say that after we have autovacuum, we should not integrate it. +It is a very handy tool of tighting a database. Other database go other way +round. They develop maintance functionality built in and then create tool on +top of it. Here we have it already done. + +It's just that it should be triggered by default. That would rock.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Bubble Memory, n.: A derogatory term, usually referring to a person's intelligence. See also "vacuum tube". + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 12:01:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2350D1C513 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:01:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15424-03 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:00:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail-3.zoominternet.net (mail-3.zoominternet.net [63.67.120.3]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B2C06D1C9C9 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:01:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 18771 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2003 15:01:16 -0000 +Received: from acs-24-154-209-142.zoominternet.net (HELO gmod.lajolla) + ([24.154.209.142]) (envelope-sender ) + by mail-3.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 5 Aug 2003 15:01:16 -0000 +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +From: Scott Cain +To: Joe Conway +Cc: Tom Lane , + PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <3F2EC244.9040107@joeconway.com> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <1060014341.1434.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F2EC244.9040107@joeconway.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab +Message-Id: <1060095679.1430.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 05 Aug 2003 11:01:19 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/66 +X-Sequence-Number: 2883 + +Joe, + +Good idea, since I may not get around to profiling it this week. I +created a dump of the data set I was working with. It is available at +http://www.gmod.org/string_dump.bz2 + +Thanks, +Scott + + +On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 16:29, Joe Conway wrote: +> Is there a sample table schema and dataset available (external-storage +> case) that we can play with? +> +> Joe +-- +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Scott Cain, Ph. D. cain@cshl.org +GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 +Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 12:05:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C8A8D1C9DE + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:05:21 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15302-05 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:04:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail-1.zoominternet.net (mail-1.zoominternet.net [63.67.120.5]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 64DFBD1C513 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:05:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 27782 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2003 15:05:06 -0000 +Received: from acs-24-154-209-142.zoominternet.net (HELO gmod.lajolla) + ([24.154.209.142]) (envelope-sender ) + by mail-1.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 5 Aug 2003 15:05:06 -0000 +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +From: Scott Cain +To: Joe Conway +Cc: Tom Lane , + PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <1060095679.1430.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <1060014341.1434.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F2EC244.9040107@joeconway.com> + <1060095679.1430.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab +Message-Id: <1060095908.1431.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 05 Aug 2003 11:05:08 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/67 +X-Sequence-Number: 2884 + +Oh, and I forgot to mention: it's highly compressed (bzip2 -9) and is +109M. + +Scott + +On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 11:01, Scott Cain wrote: +> Joe, +> +> Good idea, since I may not get around to profiling it this week. I +> created a dump of the data set I was working with. It is available at +> http://www.gmod.org/string_dump.bz2 +> +> Thanks, +> Scott +> +> +> On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 16:29, Joe Conway wrote: +> > Is there a sample table schema and dataset available (external-storage +> > case) that we can play with? +> > +> > Joe +-- +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Scott Cain, Ph. D. cain@cshl.org +GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 +Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 12:07:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F5D9D1C9CF + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:06:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 13867-08 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:05:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from neuromancer.ctlno.com (unknown [208.13.35.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC417D1C932 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:06:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from hplaptop (ool-4352919e.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.145.158]) + by neuromancer.ctlno.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h75FFKR21918; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:15:20 -0500 +Message-ID: <000b01c35b63$22d748d0$c202a8c0@hplaptop> +From: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +To: , + "Christopher Browne" +Cc: +References: <60el00jhyx.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:06:22 -0400 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/68 +X-Sequence-Number: 2885 + +From: "Christopher Browne" + +> Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> > I agree, specifying per table thresholds would be good in autovacuum.. +> +> Which begs the question of what the future direction is for pg_autovacuum. + +This is a good question. + +> There would be some merit to having pg_autovacuum throw in some tables +> in which to store persistent information + +As long as pg_autovacuum is either a contrib module, or not integrated into +the backend, we can't do this. I don't think we should require that tables +are added to your database in order to run pg_autovacuum, I have thought +that a "helper table" could be used, this table, if found by pg_autovacuum +would use it for per table defaults, exclusion list etc.... That way +pg_autovacuum can run without a polluted database, or can be tuned. + +If pg_autovacuum in made official, moves out of contrib and becomes a core +tool, then we can either add columns to some system catalogs to track this +information or add a new system table. + +> All well and interesting stuff that could be worth implementing. +> +> But the usual talk has been about ultimately integrating the +> functionality into the backend, making it fairly futile to enhance +> pg_autovacuum terribly much. +> +> Unfortunately, the "integrate into the backend" thing has long seemed +> "just around the corner." I think we should either: +> a) Decide to enhance pg_autovacuum, or +> b) Not. + +I have been talking about "integraging it into the backend" for a while, and +I used to think it was "just around the corner" unfortunately, work +schedule and my C skills have prevented me from getting anything useful +working. If you would like to work on it, I would help as much as possible. + +I chose to leave pg_autovacuum simple and not add too many features because +the core team has said that it needs to be integrated into the backend +before it can be considered a core tool. + +ps, please cc me as I'm not subscribed to the list. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 12:23:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 5BA6FD1C9FE; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:23:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 18238-03; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:22:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from joeconway.com (66-146-172-86.skyriver.net [66.146.172.86]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 36D65D1C9ED; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:23:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [206.19.64.3] (account jconway HELO joeconway.com) + by joeconway.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) + with ESMTP-TLS id 23570; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 07:44:40 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F2FCB17.9010608@joeconway.com> +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 08:19:51 -0700 +From: Joe Conway +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Scott Cain +Cc: Tom Lane , + PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> + <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <1060014341.1434.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F2EC244.9040107@joeconway.com> + <1060095679.1430.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <1060095908.1431.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> +In-Reply-To: <1060095908.1431.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/69 +X-Sequence-Number: 2886 + +Scott Cain wrote: +> Oh, and I forgot to mention: it's highly compressed (bzip2 -9) and is +> 109M. + +Thanks. I'll grab a copy from home later today and see if I can find +some time to poke at it. + +Joe + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 12:30:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526D6D1C9EE + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:30:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 14444-09 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:29:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from neuromancer.ctlno.com (unknown [208.13.35.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2870DD1C9ED + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:30:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from hplaptop (ool-4352919e.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.145.158]) + by neuromancer.ctlno.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h75FdAR22159; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:39:10 -0500 +Message-ID: <001101c35b66$76ba0480$c202a8c0@hplaptop> +From: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +To: , +References: <3F300FF3.7064.DA8047@localhost> +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:30:12 -0400 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/70 +X-Sequence-Number: 2887 + +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +> On 5 Aug 2003 at 10:29, Christopher Browne wrote: +> +> > Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> > There would be some merit to having pg_autovacuum throw in some tables +> > in which to store persistent information, +> +> Well, the C++ version I wrote quite a while back, which resides on gborg +and +> unmaintained, did that. It was considered as table pollution. However +whenever +> autovacuum stuff goes in backend as such, it is going to need a catalogue. + +right, I think there is a distinction between adding a system catalogue +needed for core functionality, and requiring a user to put a table in the +users name space of their database just to run a utility. As I mentioned in +my other email, I do think that a non-required helper table could be a good +idea, the question is should we do this considering autovacuum should be +integrated into the backend at which point pg_autovacuum will be scrapped. + +> > -> Some tables should _never_ be touched; +> +> That can be determined runtime from stats. Not required as a special +feature +> IMHO.. +> +> > +> > -> Some tables might get "reset" to indicate that they should be +> > considered as having been recently vacuumed, or perhaps that they +> > badly need vacuuming; +> +> Well, stats collector takes care of that. Autovacuum daemon reads that +> statistics, maintain a periodic snapshot of the same to determine whether +or +> not it needs to vacuum. + +Actually I don't think that pg_autovacuum will notice. The stats that it +watches no nothing about when a table is vacuumed outside of pg_autovacuum. +I agree this is a deficiency, but I don't know how to get that information +without being part of the backend. + +> Why it crawls for a dirty database is as follows. Autovauum daemon starts, +read +> statistics, sets it as base level and let a cycle pass, which is typically +few +> minutes. When it goes again, it finds that lots of things are modified and +need +> vacuum and so it triggers vacuum. +> +> Now vacuum goes on cleaning entire table which might be days job +continously +> postponed some one reason or another. Oops.. your database is on it's +knees.. + +If one table takes days (or even hours) to vacuum, then most probably it +requires *a lot* of activity before pg_autovacuum will try to vacuum the +table. The thresholds are based on two factors, a base value (default = +1,000), and a multiplier (default = 2) of the total number of tuples. So +using the default pg_autovacuum settings, a table with 1,000,000 rows will +not be vacuumed until the number of rows updated or deleted = 2,001,000. +So, a table shouldn't be vacuumed until it really needs it. This setup +works well since a small table of say 100 rows, will be updated every 1,200 +(updates or deletes). +> +> > -> As you suggest, per-table thresholds; +> +> I would rather put it in terms of pages. If any table wastes 100 pages +each, it +> deserves a vacuum.. + +unfortunately I don't know of an efficient method of looking at how many +pages have free space without running vacuum or without using the +pgstattuple contrib module which in my testing took about 90% as long to run +as vacuum. + +> > -> pg_autovacuum would know when tables were last vacuumed by +> > it... + +pg_autovacuum already does this, but the data does not persist through +pg_autovacuum restarts. + +> If you maintain a table in database, there are lot of things you can +maintain. +> And you need to connect to database anyway to fire vacuum.. +> +> > -> You could record vacuum times to tell pg_autovacuum that you +> > vacuumed something "behind its back." +> +> It should notice.. + +I don't think it does. + +> > -> If the system queued up proposed vacuums by having a "queue" +> > table, you could request that pg_autovacuum do a vacuum on a +> > particular table at the next opportunity. + +That would be a design changes as right now pg_autovacuum doesn't keep a +list of tables to vacuum at all, it just decides to vacuum or not vacuum a +table as it loops through the database. + +> > Unfortunately, the "integrate into the backend" thing has long seemed +> > "just around the corner." I think we should either: +> > a) Decide to enhance pg_autovacuum, or +> > b) Not. + +I have been of the opinion to not enhance pg_autovacuum because it needs to +be intgrated, and enhancing it will only put that off. Also, I think many +of the real enhancements can only come from being integrated (using the FSM +to make decisions, keepting track of external vacuums, modifying system +catalogs to keep autovacuum information etc...) + +> In fact, I would say that after we have autovacuum, we should not +integrate it. +> It is a very handy tool of tighting a database. Other database go other +way +> round. They develop maintance functionality built in and then create tool +on +> top of it. Here we have it already done. + +I'm not sure I understand your point. + +> It's just that it should be triggered by default. That would rock.. + + +I agree that if pg_autovacuum becomes a core tool (not contrib and not +integrated into backend) then pg_ctl should fire it up and kill it +automatically. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 12:35:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38362D1C4E0 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:35:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 16130-07 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:34:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCD5D1CA07 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:35:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75FZ6Sa022889; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:35:06 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +Cc: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + "Christopher Browne" , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-reply-to: <000b01c35b63$22d748d0$c202a8c0@hplaptop> +References: <60el00jhyx.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <000b01c35b63$22d748d0$c202a8c0@hplaptop> +Comments: In-reply-to "Matthew T. O'Connor" + message dated "Tue, 05 Aug 2003 11:06:22 -0400" +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 11:35:05 -0400 +Message-ID: <22888.1060097705@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/71 +X-Sequence-Number: 2888 + +"Matthew T. O'Connor" writes: +> I chose to leave pg_autovacuum simple and not add too many features because +> the core team has said that it needs to be integrated into the backend +> before it can be considered a core tool. + +I think actually it makes plenty of sense to enhance pg_autovacuum while +it's still contrib stuff. My guess is it'll be much less painful to +whack it around in minor or major ways while it's standalone code. +Once it's integrated in the backend, making significant changes will be +harder and more ticklish. So, now is precisely the time to be +experimenting to find out what works well and what features are needed. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 12:45:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17444D1C9ED + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:45:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17485-09 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:44:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from neuromancer.ctlno.com (unknown [208.13.35.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA50D1C4E0 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:45:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from hplaptop (ool-4352919e.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.145.158]) + by neuromancer.ctlno.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h75Fs2R22304; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:54:02 -0500 +Message-ID: <004901c35b68$8a9d8010$c202a8c0@hplaptop> +From: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +To: "Tom Lane" +Cc: , + "Christopher Browne" , + +References: <60el00jhyx.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <000b01c35b63$22d748d0$c202a8c0@hplaptop> + <22888.1060097705@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:45:04 -0400 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/72 +X-Sequence-Number: 2889 + +From: "Tom Lane" +> "Matthew T. O'Connor" writes: +> > I chose to leave pg_autovacuum simple and not add too many features +because +> > the core team has said that it needs to be integrated into the backend +> > before it can be considered a core tool. +> +> I think actually it makes plenty of sense to enhance pg_autovacuum while +> it's still contrib stuff. My guess is it'll be much less painful to +> whack it around in minor or major ways while it's standalone code. +> Once it's integrated in the backend, making significant changes will be +> harder and more ticklish. So, now is precisely the time to be +> experimenting to find out what works well and what features are needed. + +Fair point, my only concern is that a backend integrated pg_autovacuum would +be radically different from the current libpq based client application. +When integrated into the backend you have access to a lot of information +that you don't have access to as a client. I know one goal I have for the +backend version is to be based on the FSM and not require the stats +collector since it has a measurable negative effect on performance. + +But in the more general sense of learning what features people want +(exclusion lists, per table defaults etc) I agree the current version is a +sufficient testing ground. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 12:59:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92AB1D1C9EE + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:59:56 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17332-08 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:58:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from server2.sitesell.com (server2.sitesell.com [216.95.221.3]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 91262D1C9FF + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:59:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 15858 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2003 15:59:45 -0000 +Received: from modemcable140.9-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca (HELO + ?192.168.192.1?) (24.202.9.140) + by server2.sitesell.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2003 15:59:45 -0000 +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:59:11 -0400 (EDT) +From: Trevor Astrope +X-X-Sender: astrope@gord.tabbweb.com +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: How Many Inserts Per Transactions +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/73 +X-Sequence-Number: 2890 + +I was wondering if anyone found a sweet spot regarding how many inserts to +do in a single transaction to get the best performance? Is there an +approximate number where there isn't any more performance to be had or +performance may drop off? + +It's just a general question...I don't have any specific scenario, other +than there are multiple backends doing many inserts. + +Thanks, + +Trevor + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 13:01:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C05D1C933 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:01:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18318-08 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:00:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from neuromancer.ctlno.com (unknown [208.13.35.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5228D1C9DB + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:01:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from hplaptop (ool-4352919e.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.145.158]) + by neuromancer.ctlno.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with SMTP id h75GAKR22438; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:10:20 -0500 +Message-ID: <004d01c35b6a$d176a320$c202a8c0@hplaptop> +From: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +To: "Tom Lane" +Cc: , + "Christopher Browne" , + +References: <60el00jhyx.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <000b01c35b63$22d748d0$c202a8c0@hplaptop> + <22888.1060097705@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:01:22 -0400 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/74 +X-Sequence-Number: 2891 + +From: "Tom Lane" +> "Matthew T. O'Connor" writes: +> So, now is precisely the time to be experimenting to find out what works +well and what features are needed. + +Another quick question while I have your attention :-) + +Since pg_autovaccum is a contrib module does that mean I can make functional +changes that will be included in point release of 7.4? + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 13:17:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B7DD1C9DD + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:17:29 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 21469-01 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:16:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B476ED1C933 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:17:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75GGAMY001020; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:16:10 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:02:45 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Trevor Astrope +Cc: +Subject: Re: How Many Inserts Per Transactions +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/75 +X-Sequence-Number: 2892 + +On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Trevor Astrope wrote: + +> I was wondering if anyone found a sweet spot regarding how many inserts to +> do in a single transaction to get the best performance? Is there an +> approximate number where there isn't any more performance to be had or +> performance may drop off? +> +> It's just a general question...I don't have any specific scenario, other +> than there are multiple backends doing many inserts. + +I've found that after 1,000 or so inserts, there's no great increase in +speed. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 13:19:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F57D1C9EE + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:19:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18238-08 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:17:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E529D1C9DD + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:18:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h75GIlSa026336; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:18:48 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +Cc: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + "Christopher Browne" , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-reply-to: <004d01c35b6a$d176a320$c202a8c0@hplaptop> +References: <60el00jhyx.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <000b01c35b63$22d748d0$c202a8c0@hplaptop> + <22888.1060097705@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <004d01c35b6a$d176a320$c202a8c0@hplaptop> +Comments: In-reply-to "Matthew T. O'Connor" + message dated "Tue, 05 Aug 2003 12:01:22 -0400" +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 12:18:47 -0400 +Message-ID: <26335.1060100327@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/76 +X-Sequence-Number: 2893 + +"Matthew T. O'Connor" writes: +> Since pg_autovaccum is a contrib module does that mean I can make functional +> changes that will be included in point release of 7.4? + +Well, the bar is lower for contrib stuff than for core, but you'd better +get such changes in PDQ, I'd say ... + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 13:28:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88881D1C9ED + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:28:21 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 21978-02 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:27:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F07D1C4E0 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:28:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from dev6.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.212] helo=libertyrms.info) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19k4fS-0000o4-00; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 12:28:10 -0400 +Received: by libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1079) + id 31F7BBBADC; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:28:10 -0400 (EDT) +To: Trevor Astrope +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How Many Inserts Per Transactions +From: Christopher Browne +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 12:28:10 -0400 +Message-ID: <60d6fkhxwl.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/77 +X-Sequence-Number: 2894 + +Trevor Astrope wrote: +> I was wondering if anyone found a sweet spot regarding how many +> inserts to do in a single transaction to get the best performance? +> Is there an approximate number where there isn't any more +> performance to be had or performance may drop off? +> +> It's just a general question...I don't have any specific scenario, +> other than there are multiple backends doing many inserts. + +The ideal should be enough to make the work involved in establishing +the transaction context be a small part of the cost of processing the +queries. + +Thus, 2 inserts should be twice as good as 1, by virtue of dividing +the cost of the transaction 2 ways. + +Increasing the number of inserts/updates to 10 means splitting the +cost 10 ways. + +Increasing the number to 1000 means splitting the cost 1000 ways, +which, while better than merely splitting the cost 10 ways, probably +_isn't_ a stunningly huge further improvement. + +The benefits of grouping more together drops off; you'll probably NOT +notice much difference between grouping 10,000 updates together into a +transaction as compared to grouping 15,000 updates together. + +Fortunately, it doesn't drop off to being downright WORSE. + +On Oracle, I have seen performance Suck Badly when using SQL*Load; if +I grouped too many updates together, it started blowing up the +"rollback segment," which was a Bad Thing. And in that kind of +context, there will typically be some "sweet spot" where you want to +commit transactions before they grow too big. + +In contrast, pg_dump/pg_restore puts the load of each table into a +single COPY statement, so that if there are 15,000,000 entries in the +table, that gets grouped into a single (rather enormous) transaction. +And doing things that way presents no particular problem. +-- +output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "libertyrms.info") + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 13:50:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C1AD1C4E0 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:50:09 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 22741-02 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:48:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0099AD1C9ED + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:49:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h75Gn1G25462; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:49:01 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308051649.h75Gn1G25462@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-Reply-To: <26335.1060100327@sss.pgh.pa.us> +To: Tom Lane +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:49:01 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: "Matthew T. O'Connor" , + shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/78 +X-Sequence-Number: 2895 + +Tom Lane wrote: +> "Matthew T. O'Connor" writes: +> > Since pg_autovaccum is a contrib module does that mean I can make functional +> > changes that will be included in point release of 7.4? +> +> Well, the bar is lower for contrib stuff than for core, but you'd better +> get such changes in PDQ, I'd say ... + +The contrib stuff is usually at the control of the author, so you can +make changes relatively late. However, the later the changes, the less +testing they get, but the decision is mostly yours, rather than core. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 14:31:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 777FED1C933 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:31:00 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 24040-08 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:29:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ns.fairind.com (unknown [65.161.19.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C508D1C4E0 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:30:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from encounter.fairfield.com by ns.fairind.com + via smtpd (for developer.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) with ESMTP; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:30:49 -0500 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +Subject: Odd performance results - more info +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:30:46 -0500 +Message-ID: + <906E2C446A276048A1BE283F17BCB12CB137CA@encounter.fairind.fairfield.com> +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: Odd performance results - more info +Thread-Index: AcNbd0xjo1Vz0MZiEdeZ6QBQBHwzDQ== +From: "Medora Schauer" +To: "postgresql" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/79 +X-Sequence-Number: 2896 + + +I didn't get any helpful responses to my previous email so I thought +I would try again, this time with example code. + +Below is my orignal email and code for a dead simple ASCII menu driven=20 +application that demonstrates the problem. The app starts up with a +menu of 4 items to create the test databases, to run the float or int +test or to quit. The databases created are named "int_db" and "float_db" +and contain just 1 table and an index on that table, The tables are +populated with 2000 records and the "test" menu options perform +an UPDATE on each of the 2000 records. Postmaster is assumed +to be running on "localhost". You only need to select the "Create=20 +databases" option on the menu once.=20 + +I would greatly appreciate it if someone could run this code in their +environment and let me know if you get results similiar to mine. +The INT test results in execution times of 11 - 50+ secs increasing +each time the test is run. The FLOAT test execution times are +consistently < 3 secs regardless of how many times it is run. + +I hope this piques someones curiosity. I'd really like to know +what is going on here... + + +*********************************************************************** +Medora Schauer +Sr. Software Engineer + +Fairfield Industries +Sugar Land, Tx 77478-3469 + +mschauer@fairfield.com +*********************************************************************** + +original email: + +***************************************************************************= +********* +I have a table with a 3 column key. I noticed that when I update a non-key= + field +in a record of the table that the update was taking longer than I thought i= +t=20 +should. After much experimenting I discovered that if I changed the data +types of two of the key columns to FLOAT8 that I got vastly improved +performance. + +Orignally the data types of the 3 columns were FLOAT4, FLOAT4 and INT4. +My plaform is a PowerPC running Linux. I speculated that the performance +improvement might be because the PowePC is a 64 bit processor but when +I changed the column data types to INT8, INT8 and INT4 I din't see any +improvement. I also ran my test code on a Pentium 4 machine with the same +results in all cases. + +This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would FLOAT8 keys ever result +in improved performance? + +I verified with EXPLAIN that the index is used in every case for the update. + +My postmaster version is 7.1.3. + +Any help will be greatly appreciated. + +***************************************************************************= +********** + +test code: + +#include +#include +#include +#include +#include +#include +#include + +#ifndef TRUE +#define TRUE (1) +#define FALSE (0) +#endif + +#define INT_TYPE (0) +#define FLOAT_TYPE (1) + +char buffer[200]; +PGconn *fconn =3D NULL, *iconn =3D NULL; + +PGconn *CreateTestDb(int dtype); +void AddRecords(PGconn *conn, int dtype); +PGconn *Connect(char *dbname); +int DoSql(PGconn *conn, char *query, PGresult **result); +long FindExeTime(struct timeval *start_time, struct timeval *end_time); +void UpdateTraceCounts(int dtype); + +=20 +int +main (int argc, char **argv) { + char database[40]; + char option[10]; + int quit =3D FALSE; + char response[100]; + + while (!quit){ + printf ("\n\n\n" \ + "c - Create databases.\n" \ + "f - Run FLOAT8 test.\n" \ + "i - Run INT8 test.\n" \ + "q - Quit\n\n" \ + "Selection : "); + gets(option); +=20 + switch (option[0]){ + case 'c' : + printf ("Starting creation of FLOAT8 database...\n"); + if ((fconn =3D CreateTestDb(FLOAT_TYPE)) =3D=3D NULL){ + printf ("\n#### ERROR #### : Counldn't build FLOAT8 db.\n"); + } else { + printf ("Adding 2000 records to FLOAT8 database...\n"); + AddRecords(fconn, FLOAT_TYPE); + printf ("\nFLOAT8 Db created.\n"); + }=20 + + printf ("Starting creation of INT8 database...\n"); + if ((iconn =3D CreateTestDb(INT_TYPE)) =3D=3D NULL){ + printf ("\n#### ERROR #### : Counldn't build INT8 db.\n"); + } else { + printf ("Adding 2000 records to INT8 database...\n"); + AddRecords(iconn, INT_TYPE); + printf ("\nINT8 Db created.\n"); + }=20 + break; +=20=20=20=20=20=20 + case 'f' : + printf ("Updating 2000 records in FLOAT8 database...\n"); + UpdateTraceCounts(FLOAT_TYPE); + break; + + case 'i' : + printf ("Updating 2000 records in INT8 database...\n"); + UpdateTraceCounts(INT_TYPE); + break; + + case 'q' : + quit =3D TRUE; + break; + + default: + printf ("Invalid option.\n"); + }=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 + } + + if (iconn) PQfinish(iconn); + if (fconn) PQfinish(fconn); + exit (0); +} +=20 +=20=20=20 +void +UpdateTraceCounts(int dtype){ + int i, last, status; + PGresult *result; + struct timeval exe_begin, exe_end, exe_begin2, exe_end2; + long exe_time, exe_time2; + int shotpoint, shotline; + PGconn *conn; +=20=20=20=20 + if (dtype =3D=3D FLOAT_TYPE){ + if (fconn =3D=3D NULL){ + if ((fconn =3D Connect("float_db")) =3D=3D NULL){ + printf ("#### ERROR #### : Cannot connect to float_db datab= +ase.\n"); + return; + } + } + conn =3D fconn; + } else { + if (iconn =3D=3D NULL){ + if ((iconn =3D Connect("int_db")) =3D=3D NULL){ + printf ("#### ERROR #### : Cannot connect to int_db databas= +e.\n"); + return; + }=20 + } + conn =3D iconn; + } + + last =3D 2000;=20 + + gettimeofday(&exe_begin2, NULL); +=20=20=20=20 + if ((status =3D DoSql(conn, "BEGIN TRANSACTION", &result)) !=3D 0){ + printf("#### ERROR #### Error starting database transaction.\n");= +=20 + if (result) PQclear(result); + } +=20=20=20=20 + gettimeofday(&exe_begin, NULL); +=20=20=20=20 + shotline =3D 1; + shotpoint =3D 10001; + for (i =3D 0; i < last; i++){ + if (dtype =3D=3D INT_TYPE){ + snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer),=20 + "UPDATE shot_record SET trace_count =3D %d " \ + "WHERE shot_line_num =3D %d " \ + " AND shotpoint =3D %d " \ + " AND index =3D %d" , + 0, shotline, shotpoint + i, 0); + } else { + snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer), + "UPDATE shot_record SET trace_count =3D %d " \ + "WHERE shot_line_num =3D %f " \ + " AND shotpoint =3D %f " \ + " AND index =3D %d" , + 0, (float)shotline, (float)shotpoint + (float)i, 0); + } + + status =3D DoSql(conn, buffer, &result); + if (status !=3D 0){ + printf ("#### ERROR #### : Error updating db.\n"); + break; + } + } +=20=20=20=20 + gettimeofday(&exe_end, NULL); + + if ((status =3D DoSql(conn, "COMMIT TRANSACTION", &result)) !=3D 0){ + printf("#### ERROR #### : Error commiting database transaction.\n")= +;=20 + if (result) PQclear(result); + } +=20=20=20=20 + gettimeofday(&exe_end2, NULL); +=20=20=20=20 + exe_time =3D FindExeTime(&exe_begin, &exe_end); + exe_time2 =3D FindExeTime(&exe_begin2, &exe_end2); + + printf ("time to complete updates: %ld msec\n", exe_time); + printf ("total time: %ld msec\n", exe_time2); +} + +PGconn * +CreateTestDb(int dtype){ + PGconn *conn; + int status; + PGresult *result; + char *dbname; + char *icmd_strings[] =3D {=20 + "CREATE TABLE shot_record ( " \ + "shot_line_num INT8, " \ + "shotpoint INT8, " \ + "index INT2, " \ + "trace_count INT4, " \ + "PRIMARY KEY (shot_line_num, shotpoint, index)) ", + NULL};=20=20=20=20 + char *fcmd_strings[] =3D { + "CREATE TABLE shot_record ( " \ + "shot_line_num FLOAT8, " \ + "shotpoint FLOAT8, " \ + "index INT2, " \ + "trace_count INT4, " \ + "PRIMARY KEY (shot_line_num, shotpoint, index))",= +=20 + NULL}; +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20 + char **cmdP; + + if (dtype =3D=3D INT_TYPE){ + cmdP =3D icmd_strings; + dbname =3D "int_db"; + } else { + cmdP =3D fcmd_strings; + dbname =3D "float_db"; + } +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= +=20 + /* Open a connection to the template1 database. */ + if ((conn =3D Connect("template1")) =3D=3D NULL){ + fprintf(stderr, "Database connect query: %s\n", buffer); + return(NULL); + } + + /* Create the new database. */ + snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer), "CREATE DATABASE %s", dbname); + result =3D PQexec(conn, buffer); +=20=20=20=20 + if (!result || PQresultStatus(result) !=3D PGRES_COMMAND_OK){ + if (result){ + PQclear(result); + } + fprintf(stderr, "%s\n %s\n", buffer, PQresultErrorMessage(result= +)); + PQfinish(conn); + return(NULL); + } +=20=20=20=20 + PQclear(result);=20 + PQfinish(conn); +=20=20=20=20 + /* Open a connection to the new database. */ + if ((conn =3D Connect(dbname)) =3D=3D NULL){ + return (NULL); + } +=20=20=20=20 + /* Create the database tables. */ + while (*cmdP){ + if ((status =3D DoSql(conn, *cmdP, &result)) !=3D 0){ + fprintf(stderr,"%s\n%s\n",=20 + *cmdP, PQresultErrorMessage(result)); + PQfinish(conn); + return(NULL); + } else { + PQclear(result); + } + ++cmdP; + } +=20=20=20=20 + return(conn); +} + +void +AddRecords(PGconn *conn, int dtype){ + int num_shots, i; + PGresult *result; + int shotpoint; +=20=20=20=20 + /* Add a bunch of records to the table. */ + num_shots =3D 2000;=20 +=20=20=20=20 + shotpoint =3D 10001; + for (i =3D 0; i < num_shots; i++){ +=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 + if (dtype =3D=3D INT_TYPE){ + sprintf (buffer, "INSERT INTO Shot_Record VALUES (1, %d, 0, 0)", + shotpoint + i, shotpoint + i); + } else { + sprintf (buffer, "INSERT INTO Shot_Record VALUES (1.0, %f, 0, 0= +) ", + shotpoint + (float)i, shotpoint + (float)i); + } + result =3D PQexec(conn, buffer); +=20=20=20=20 + if (!result || PQresultStatus(result) !=3D PGRES_COMMAND_OK){ + if (result){ + PQclear(result); + } + fprintf(stderr, "%s\n %s\n", buffer,PQresultErrorMessage(res= +ult)); + PQfinish(conn); + return; + } + } +} +=20=20=20 +PGconn * +Connect(char *dbname){ + char *func =3D "Connect()"; + PGconn *conn; + + snprintf (buffer, sizeof(buffer), "host=3D'localhost' dbname=3D'%s'", d= +bname); + conn =3D PQconnectdb(buffer); +=20=20=20 + if (PQstatus(conn) !=3D CONNECTION_OK){ + fprintf(stderr, "%s: Database connect query: %s\n", func, buffer); + return(NULL); + } +=20 + return (conn); +}=20 + +int +DoSql(PGconn *conn, char *query, PGresult **result){ + char *func =3D "DoSql()"; + int status =3D 0; +=20=20=20=20 + if (!conn){ + return(-1); + } +=20=20=20=20 + *result =3D PQexec(conn, query); + if (!*result || ((PQresultStatus(*result) !=3D PGRES_COMMAND_OK)=20 + && (PQresultStatus(*result) !=3D PGRES_TUPLES_OK))){ + if (*result){ + fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s\n%s\n", func, query, PQresultErrorMessa= +ge(*result)); + PQclear(*result); + *result =3D NULL; + } + + /* See if the database connection is valid. */ + if (PQstatus(conn) =3D=3D CONNECTION_BAD){ + status =3D -1; + } else { + status =3D -2; + } + } else { + status =3D 0; + } +=20=20=20=20 + return(status); +} + +#define DB_TIME_CONVERT (1000) + +long +FindExeTime(struct timeval *start_time, struct timeval *end_time){ + long exe_time; + + exe_time =3D ((1000000 * end_time->tv_sec) + end_time->tv_usec) - + ((1000000 * start_time->tv_sec) + start_time->tv_usec); + + return(exe_time/DB_TIME_CONVERT); +} + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 14:45:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50B0AD1C9DB + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:45:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 25968-05 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:44:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from joeconway.com (66-146-172-86.skyriver.net [66.146.172.86]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34219D1C4E0 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:45:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [206.19.64.3] (account jconway HELO joeconway.com) + by joeconway.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) + with ESMTP-TLS id 23712; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:06:32 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F2FEC57.5010201@joeconway.com> +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:41:43 -0700 +From: Joe Conway +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Medora Schauer +Cc: postgresql +Subject: Re: Odd performance results - more info +References: + <906E2C446A276048A1BE283F17BCB12CB137CA@encounter.fairind.fairfield.com> +In-Reply-To: + <906E2C446A276048A1BE283F17BCB12CB137CA@encounter.fairind.fairfield.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/80 +X-Sequence-Number: 2897 + +Medora Schauer wrote: +> I would greatly appreciate it if someone could run this code in their +> environment and let me know if you get results similiar to mine. +> The INT test results in execution times of 11 - 50+ secs increasing +> each time the test is run. The FLOAT test execution times are +> consistently < 3 secs regardless of how many times it is run. + +Without actually trying the code, I'd bet that an index is getting used +for the float8 case, but not in the int8 case: + + if (dtype == INT_TYPE){ + snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer), + "UPDATE shot_record SET trace_count = %d " \ + "WHERE shot_line_num = %d " \ + " AND shotpoint = %d " \ + " AND index = %d" , + 0, shotline, shotpoint + i, 0); + } else { + snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer), + "UPDATE shot_record SET trace_count = %d " \ + "WHERE shot_line_num = %f " \ + " AND shotpoint = %f " \ + " AND index = %d" , + 0, (float)shotline, (float)shotpoint + (float)i, 0); + } + +Try running EXPLAIN ANALYZE on these update statements manually. It also +might help to run VACUUM ANALYZE after populating the tables. + +HTH, + +Joe + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 14:50:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04266D1C9ED + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:50:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 27817-03 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:48:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 102BED1C933 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:50:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 7B0EBD640; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:50:05 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 70B705C0C; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:50:05 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:50:05 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Medora Schauer +Cc: postgresql +Subject: Re: Odd performance results - more info +In-Reply-To: + <906E2C446A276048A1BE283F17BCB12CB137CA@encounter.fairind.fairfield.com> +Message-ID: <20030805104546.H62947-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/81 +X-Sequence-Number: 2898 + + +On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Medora Schauer wrote: + +> I hope this piques someones curiosity. I'd really like to know +> what is going on here... + +I think you're getting caught by the typing of constants preventing +index scans. + +> "UPDATE shot_record SET trace_count = %d " \ +> "WHERE shot_line_num = %d " \ +> " AND shotpoint = %d " \ +> " AND index = %d" , +> 0, shotline, shotpoint + i, 0); + +I believe that the int constants are going to generally be treated as +int4. If you're comparing them to an int8 you're not going to get +an index scan probably. Try explicitly casting the constants to +the appropriate type: CAST(%d AS int8). + + +> snprintf(buffer, sizeof(buffer), +> "UPDATE shot_record SET trace_count = %d " \ +> "WHERE shot_line_num = %f " \ +> " AND shotpoint = %f " \ +> " AND index = %d" , +> 0, (float)shotline, (float)shotpoint + (float)i, 0); + +Same general issue here, I think the floats are going to get treated +as float8 in 7.1, so you'll probably need an explicit cast. + +As Joe said, try explain on the queries for more details. + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 14:58:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39FE7D1C9DB + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:58:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 27853-04 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:57:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ns.fairind.com (unknown [65.161.19.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBE1D1C933 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:58:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from encounter.fairfield.com by ns.fairind.com + via smtpd (for developer.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) with ESMTP; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:58:24 -0500 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +Subject: Re: Odd performance results - more info +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:58:23 -0500 +Message-ID: + <906E2C446A276048A1BE283F17BCB12CB137D4@encounter.fairind.fairfield.com> +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] Odd performance results - more info +Thread-Index: AcNbeWUaR6mto2owR9uy0kf/c8ITugAAZYdw +From: "Medora Schauer" +To: "Joe Conway" +Cc: "postgresql" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/82 +X-Sequence-Number: 2899 + + +=20 +> Medora Schauer wrote: +> > I would greatly appreciate it if someone could run this=20 +> code in their +> > environment and let me know if you get results similiar to mine. +> > The INT test results in execution times of 11 - 50+ secs increasing +> > each time the test is run. The FLOAT test execution times are +> > consistently < 3 secs regardless of how many times it is run. +>=20 +> Without actually trying the code, I'd bet that an index is=20 +> getting used=20 +> for the float8 case, but not in the int8 case: +>=20 + +I've already verifed that the index is used in both cases. + +Medora + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 15:18:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F46D1C920 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:18:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 25968-10 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:17:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ns.fairind.com (unknown [65.161.19.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F4183D1C91C + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:18:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from encounter.fairfield.com by ns.fairind.com + via smtpd (for developer.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) with ESMTP; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:18:30 -0500 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +Subject: Re: Odd performance results - more info +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:18:29 -0500 +Message-ID: + <906E2C446A276048A1BE283F17BCB12CB137DE@encounter.fairind.fairfield.com> +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] Odd performance results - more info +Thread-Index: AcNbeWUaR6mto2owR9uy0kf/c8ITugAAZYdwAACndlA= +From: "Medora Schauer" +To: "Medora Schauer" , + "Joe Conway" +Cc: "postgresql" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/83 +X-Sequence-Number: 2900 + + +>=20 +> > Medora Schauer wrote: +> > > I would greatly appreciate it if someone could run this=20 +> > code in their +> > > environment and let me know if you get results similiar to mine. +> > > The INT test results in execution times of 11 - 50+ secs=20 +> increasing +> > > each time the test is run. The FLOAT test execution times are +> > > consistently < 3 secs regardless of how many times it is run. +> >=20 +> > Without actually trying the code, I'd bet that an index is=20 +> > getting used=20 +> > for the float8 case, but not in the int8 case: +> >=20 +>=20 +> I've already verifed that the index is used in both cases. +>=20 + +I stand corrected. A sequential scan was being used in the INT8 case.=20= +=20 +When I changed it to INT4 I got better results. I got confused cuz=20 +I had changed the types so often. + +Thanks for your help, + +Medora + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 18:40:27 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61419D1C9E8 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 21:40:25 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 43736-02 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:39:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544F1D1C920 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:40:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from dev6.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.212] helo=libertyrms.info) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19k9XU-0005Mq-00; Tue, 05 Aug 2003 17:40:16 -0400 +Received: by libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1079) + id A08EDBBADC; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:40:16 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +From: Christopher Browne +Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 17:40:16 -0400 +Message-ID: <60d6fjhjgf.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/84 +X-Sequence-Number: 2901 + +Matthew T. O'Connor wrote: +> Fair point, my only concern is that a backend integrated +> pg_autovacuum would be radically different from the current libpq +> based client application. + +Unfortunately, a "configurable-via-tables" pg_autovacuum is also going +to be quite different from the current "unconfigurable" version. + +If we were to make it configurable, I would suggest doing so via +specifying a database and schema into which it would then insert a set +of tables to provide whatever information was considered worth +'fiddling' with. + +But at that point, it makes sense to add in quite a bit of +"configurable" behaviour, such as: + + -> Specifying that certain tables should _never_ be automatically + vacuumed. + + -> Establishing a "queue" of tables that pg_autovacuum plans to + vacuum, so that users could add in desired vacuums ("after the + other stuff being handled, force in a vacuum of app_table_foo"). + That way, vacuums can be 'forced in' without introducing the + possibility that multiple vacuums might be done at once... + + -> Making information about what vacuums have been done/planned + persistent across runs of pg_autovacuum, and even across + shutdowns of the DBMS. + +This changes behaviour enough that I'm not sure it's the same +"program" as the unconfigurable version. Almost every option would be +substantially affected by the logic: + + if (CONFIG_DATA_IN_DB) { + /* Logic path that uses data in Vacuum Schema */ + } else { + /* More banal logic */ + } + +If I can store configuration in the database, then I'd like to also +make up a view or two, and possibly even base the logic used on views +that combine configuration tables with system views. In effect, that +makes for a _third_ radically different option. +-- +output = reverse("ofni.smrytrebil" "@" "enworbbc") + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 19:26:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1750AD1C920 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:26:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 47680-01 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:25:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.int.nxad.com (internal.ext.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E51D1C4BC + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:26:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.int.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id D32C320F01; Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:26:09 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:26:09 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: Manfred Koizar +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Moving postgresql.conf tunables into 2003... +Message-ID: <20030805222609.GF94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> +References: <20030703190502.GR72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <2422.1057264735@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030704000646.GV72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <4nfiiv850cu7vkp39tv7mk2b3pniim8ccu@4ax.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <4nfiiv850cu7vkp39tv7mk2b3pniim8ccu@4ax.com> +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/85 +X-Sequence-Number: 2902 + +> >> is some other problem that needs to be solved. (I'd wonder about +> >> index correlation myself; we know that that equation is pretty +> >> bogus.) +> > +> >Could be. I had him create a multi-column index on the date and a +> >non-unique highly redundant id. +> +> Tom has already suspected index correlation to be a possible source +> of the problem and recommended to CLUSTER on the index. A weakness +> of the current planner implementation is that a multi column index +> is always thought to have low correlation. In your case even after +> CLUSTER the 2-column index on (date, sensorid) is treated like a +> single column index with correlation 0.5. + +Howdy. Well, I got far enough with the guy in the testing to figure +out that it wasn't a single vs multi-column index problem, however I +haven't heard back from him regarding the use of CLUSTER. Ce est la +IRC. :-p + +> I have an experimental patch lying around somewhere that tries to +> work around these problems by offering different estimation methods +> for index scans. If you are interested, I'll dig it out. + +Sure, I'll take a gander... had my head in enough Knuth recently to +even hopefully have some kind of a useful response to the patch. + +> In the meantime have him try with a single column index on date. + +Been there, done that: no change. + +> |That's one heck of a poor estimate for the number of rows returned. +> | +> |> -> Seq Scan on mss_fwevent (cost=0.00..223312.60 rows=168478 width=12) +> | (actual time=24253.66..24319.87 rows=320 loops=1) +> +> > -> Index Scan using mss_fwevent_evtime_sensorid_idx on mss_fwevent +> > (cost=0.00..2442524.70 rows=168478 width=12) +> > (actual time=68.36..132.84 rows=320 loops=1) +> > Index Cond: ((evtime > (now() - '06:00'::interval)) AND (sensorid = 7)) +> > Filter: (NOT "action") +> +> Estimated number of rows being wrong by a factor 500 seems to be the +> main problem hiding everything else. With statistics already set to +> 1000, does this mean that sensorid, evtime, and action are not +> independent? It'd be interesting to know whether the estimation +> error comes from "Index Cond" or from "Filter". + +Hrm... sensorid is sequence and grows proportional with evtime, +obviously. Action is a char(1) or something like that (ie: not +unique). See the EXPLAIN ANALYZEs that I posted in msgid: +20030704000646.GV72567@perrin.int.nxad.com.. or at the bottom of this +msg. + +Having spent a fair amount of time looking at the two following plans, +it seems as though an additional statistic is needed to change the +cost of doing an index lookup when the index is linearly ordered. +Whether CLUSTER does this or not, I don't know, I never heard back +from him after getting the runtime down to a few ms. :-/ Are indexes +on linearly ordered data rebalanced somehow? I thought CLUSTER only +reordered data on disk. -sc + + + +Plan for normal random_page_cost: + +mss_masterlog=> SHOW random_page_cost; + random_page_cost +------------------ + 4 +(1 row) + +mss_masterlog=> EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT srca, COUNT(srca) FROM mss_fwevent WHERE +mss_masterlog-> sensorid = 7 AND evtime > (now() - '6 hours'::INTERVAL) +mss_masterlog-> AND NOT action GROUP BY srca ORDER BY COUNT DESC LIMIT 20; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Limit (cost=240384.69..240384.74 rows=20 width=12) (actual time=24340.04..24340.39 rows=20 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=240384.69..240426.80 rows=16848 width=12) (actual time=24340.02..24340.14 rows=21 loops=1) + Sort Key: count(srca) + -> Aggregate (cost=237938.36..239201.95 rows=16848 width=12) (actual time=24322.84..24330.73 rows=23 loops=1) + -> Group (cost=237938.36..238780.75 rows=168478 width=12) (actual time=24322.57..24328.45 rows=320 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=237938.36..238359.55 rows=168478 width=12) (actual time=24322.55..24324.34 rows=320 loops=1) + Sort Key: srca + -> Seq Scan on mss_fwevent (cost=0.00..223312.60 rows=168478 width=12) (actual time=24253.66..24319.87 rows=320 loops=1) + Filter: ((sensorid = 7) AND (evtime > (now() - '06:00'::interval)) AND (NOT "action")) + Total runtime: 24353.67 msec +(10 rows) + + +Plan for altered random_page_cost: + +mss_masterlog=> SET random_page_cost = 0.32; +SET +mss_masterlog=> EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT srca, COUNT(srca) FROM mss_fwevent WHERE +mss_masterlog-> sensorid = 7 AND evtime > (now() - '6 hours'::INTERVAL) +mss_masterlog-> AND NOT action GROUP BY srca ORDER BY COUNT DESC LIMIT 20; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +-------------- + Limit (cost=227274.85..227274.90 rows=20 width=12) (actual time=28.42..28.75 rows=20 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=227274.85..227316.97 rows=16848 width=12) (actual time=28.41..28.52 rows=21 loops=1) + Sort Key: count(srca) + -> Aggregate (cost=224828.52..226092.11 rows=16848 width=12) (actual time=20.26..28.13 rows=23 loops=1) + -> Group (cost=224828.52..225670.91 rows=168478 width=12) (actual time=19.99..25.86 rows=320 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=224828.52..225249.72 rows=168478 width=12) (actual time=19.98..21.76 rows=320 loops=1) + Sort Key: srca + -> Index Scan using mss_fwevent_evtime_sensorid_idx on mss_fwevent (cost=0.00..210202.76 rows=168478 width=12) (actual time=0.35..17.61 +rows=320 loops=1) + Index Cond: ((evtime > (now() - '06:00'::interval)) AND (sensorid = 7)) + Filter: (NOT "action") + Total runtime: 29.09 msec +(11 rows) + +-- +Sean Chittenden + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 5 22:38:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EFF6D1C7EB + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:18:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58817-06 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:16:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 273B6D1C910 + for ; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:18:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h761I1Lt063971; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:18:01 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <080501c35bb8$d306e3a0$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Jeff" , + +References: +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:19:45 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/86 +X-Sequence-Number: 2903 + +Try the pg_autovacuum daemon in CVS contrib dir. It works fine with 7.3. + +Chris + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Jeff" +To: +Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 8:09 PM +Subject: [PERFORM] Some vacuum & tuning help + + +> I've been trying to search through the archives, but it hasn't been +> successful. +> +> We recently upgraded from pg7.0.2 to 7.3.4 and things were happy. I'm +> trying to fine tune things to get it running a bit better and I'm trying +> to figure out how vacuum output correlates to tuning parameters. +> +> Here's the msot recent vacuum for the "active" table. It gets a few +> hundred updates/inserts a minute constantly throughout the day. +> +> INFO: Pages 27781: Changed 0, Empty 0; Tup 2451648: Vac 0, Keep 0, UnUsed +> 1003361. +> Total CPU 2.18s/0.61u sec elapsed 2.78 sec. +> +> I see unused is quite high. This morning I bumped max_fsm_pages to 500000. +> If I'm thinking right you want unused and max_fsm to be closish, right? +> (Yesterday it was down around.. oh.. 600k?) +> +> I'm thinking vacuum full's may be in order. Which stinks because I was +> hoping to do away with the db essentially down for 10 minutes (includes +> all the db's on that machine) while it vacuum'd. +> +> The upside is: it is performing great. During the vacuum analyze I do get +> a few multi-second pauses while something occurs. I figured it was a +> checkpoint, so I bumped checkpoint_timeout to 30 seconds and wal_buffers +> to 128. (I'm just guessing on wal_buffers). +> +> Machine is weenucks 2.2.17 on a dual p3 800, 2gb ram, 18gb drive +(mirrored). +> If you guys need other info (shared_buffers, etc) I'll be happy to funish +> them. but the issue isn't query slowness.. just want to get this thing +> oiled). +> +> thanks +> +> -- +> Jeff Trout +> http://www.jefftrout.com/ +> http://www.stuarthamm.net/ +> +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? +> +> http://archives.postgresql.org +> + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 01:22:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A785BD1C48E + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 04:22:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 74383-08 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:21:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from neuromancer.ctlno.com (unknown [208.13.35.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A8E5D1C518 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:22:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from tocr (ool-4352919e.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.145.158]) + by neuromancer.ctlno.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h764UlR30127; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 23:30:47 -0500 +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +From: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Tom Lane , shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <200308051649.h75Gn1G25462@candle.pha.pa.us> +References: <200308051649.h75Gn1G25462@candle.pha.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Zeut Tech +Message-Id: <1060143711.17472.2.camel@zeutrh9> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 (1.4.3-1) +Date: 06 Aug 2003 00:21:51 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/87 +X-Sequence-Number: 2904 + +On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 12:49, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> > Well, the bar is lower for contrib stuff than for core, but you'd better +> > get such changes in PDQ, I'd say ... +> +> The contrib stuff is usually at the control of the author, so you can +> make changes relatively late. However, the later the changes, the less +> testing they get, but the decision is mostly yours, rather than core. + +Well I don't have anything in the hopper right now, so there is little +chance anything would be ready before the release. My really question +was can I make large changes to a contrib module to a point release, +meaning, 7.4.0 will have what is in beta, but 7.4.1 would have a much +improved version. Does that sound possible? Or too radical for a point +release? + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 01:32:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ABE6D1C4ED + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 04:32:29 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 75335-06 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:31:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F47D1C4B7 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:32:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h764W2i01885; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 00:32:02 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308060432.h764W2i01885@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-Reply-To: <1060143711.17472.2.camel@zeutrh9> +To: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 00:32:02 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Tom Lane , shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/88 +X-Sequence-Number: 2905 + +Matthew T. O'Connor wrote: +> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 12:49, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> > > Well, the bar is lower for contrib stuff than for core, but you'd better +> > > get such changes in PDQ, I'd say ... +> > +> > The contrib stuff is usually at the control of the author, so you can +> > make changes relatively late. However, the later the changes, the less +> > testing they get, but the decision is mostly yours, rather than core. +> +> Well I don't have anything in the hopper right now, so there is little +> chance anything would be ready before the release. My really question +> was can I make large changes to a contrib module to a point release, +> meaning, 7.4.0 will have what is in beta, but 7.4.1 would have a much +> improved version. Does that sound possible? Or too radical for a point +> release? + +Yes, that is possible, but you should try to get lots of testers because +there is little testing in minor releases. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 01:36:26 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DCAD1C94D + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 04:36:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 76666-06 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:35:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from neuromancer.ctlno.com (unknown [208.13.35.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E13CD1C90E + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:36:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from tocr (ool-4352919e.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.145.158]) + by neuromancer.ctlno.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h764j7R30257; + Tue, 5 Aug 2003 23:45:07 -0500 +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +From: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <60d6fjhjgf.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +References: <60d6fjhjgf.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Zeut Tech +Message-Id: <1060144572.17472.18.camel@zeutrh9> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 (1.4.3-1) +Date: 06 Aug 2003 00:36:12 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/89 +X-Sequence-Number: 2906 + +On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 17:40, Christopher Browne wrote: +> Unfortunately, a "configurable-via-tables" pg_autovacuum is also going +> to be quite different from the current "unconfigurable" version. + +true, however I would like to preserve the "unconfigured" functionality +so that it can be run against a totally unmodified database cluster. If +it finds configuration information on the server then it uses it, +otherwise it just acts as it does now. + +> But at that point, it makes sense to add in quite a bit of +> "configurable" behaviour, such as: +> +> -> Specifying that certain tables should _never_ be automatically +> vacuumed. + +agreed + +> -> Establishing a "queue" of tables that pg_autovacuum plans to +> vacuum, so that users could add in desired vacuums ("after the +> other stuff being handled, force in a vacuum of app_table_foo"). +> That way, vacuums can be 'forced in' without introducing the +> possibility that multiple vacuums might be done at once... + +makes sense. + +> -> Making information about what vacuums have been done/planned +> persistent across runs of pg_autovacuum, and even across +> shutdowns of the DBMS. + +good. + +> This changes behaviour enough that I'm not sure it's the same +> "program" as the unconfigurable version. Almost every option would be +> substantially affected by the logic: +> +> if (CONFIG_DATA_IN_DB) { +> /* Logic path that uses data in Vacuum Schema */ +> } else { +> /* More banal logic */ +> } + +I'm not so sure it's that different. In either case we are going to +have a threshold and decide to vacuum based on that threshold. The +change is only that the data would be persistent, and could be +customized on a per table basis. The logic only really changes if +running unconfigured uses different data than the configured version, +which I don't see as being proposed. + +> If I can store configuration in the database, then I'd like to also +> make up a view or two, and possibly even base the logic used on views +> that combine configuration tables with system views. In effect, that +> makes for a _third_ radically different option. + +Not sure I see what all you are implying here. Please expand on this if +you deem it worthy. + + +I guess I'll start coding again. I'll send an email to the hackers list +tomorrow evening with as much info / design as I can think of. + +Matthew + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 01:39:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FD2D1C94D + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 04:39:36 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 77275-06 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:38:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68082D1C517 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:39:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h764dFLt066261; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:39:16 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <0a5701c35bd4$f43eda20$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Matthew T. O'Connor" , + "Christopher Browne" +Cc: +References: <60d6fjhjgf.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + <1060144572.17472.18.camel@zeutrh9> +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:41:06 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="Windows-1252" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/90 +X-Sequence-Number: 2907 + + +> On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 17:40, Christopher Browne wrote: +> > Unfortunately, a "configurable-via-tables" pg_autovacuum is also going +> > to be quite different from the current "unconfigurable" version. + +You don't need to create actual tables - just use 'virtual' tables, like the +pg_settings one. That's all based off a set-returning-function. You can +use updates and inserts to manipulate internal data structures or +something... + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 01:46:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F3FD1C48E + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 04:46:06 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 75648-04 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:44:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16361D1C517 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:45:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h764jYSa015809; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 00:45:34 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +Cc: Bruce Momjian , + shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +In-reply-to: <1060143711.17472.2.camel@zeutrh9> +References: <200308051649.h75Gn1G25462@candle.pha.pa.us> + <1060143711.17472.2.camel@zeutrh9> +Comments: In-reply-to "Matthew T. O'Connor" + message dated "06 Aug 2003 00:21:51 -0400" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 00:45:34 -0400 +Message-ID: <15808.1060145134@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/91 +X-Sequence-Number: 2908 + +"Matthew T. O'Connor" writes: +> ... My really question +> was can I make large changes to a contrib module to a point release, +> meaning, 7.4.0 will have what is in beta, but 7.4.1 would have a much +> improved version. Does that sound possible? + +For core code, the answer would be a big NYET. We do not do feature +additions in point releases, only bug fixes. While contrib code is more +under the author's control than the core committee's control, I'd still +say that you'd be making a big mistake to not follow that basic +guideline. People expect release x.y.z+1 to be the same as x.y.z except +for bug fixes. Introducing any new bugs into x.y.z+1 would cause a +large loss in your credibility. + +(speaking as one who's introduced new bugs into a point-release +recently, and is still embarrassed about it, even though the intent +was only to fix older bugs...) + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 02:36:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84355D1C92D + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 05:36:03 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 76647-06 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 02:34:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from home.samurai.com (home.samurai.com [205.207.28.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7BB8D1C91C + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 02:35:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by home.samurai.com (Postfix, from userid 1014) + id C206726228; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:35:52 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 01:35:52 -0400 +From: Neil Conway +To: Tom Lane +Cc: "Matthew T. O'Connor" , + Bruce Momjian , + shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +Message-ID: <20030806053552.GA10408@home.samurai.com> +References: <200308051649.h75Gn1G25462@candle.pha.pa.us> + <1060143711.17472.2.camel@zeutrh9> <15808.1060145134@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <15808.1060145134@sss.pgh.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/92 +X-Sequence-Number: 2909 + +On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 12:45:34AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: +> For core code, the answer would be a big NYET. We do not do feature +> additions in point releases, only bug fixes. While contrib code is more +> under the author's control than the core committee's control, I'd still +> say that you'd be making a big mistake to not follow that basic +> guideline. People expect release x.y.z+1 to be the same as x.y.z except +> for bug fixes. Introducing any new bugs into x.y.z+1 would cause a +> large loss in your credibility. + +... and since contrib packages are distributed along with PG, it would +also be a loss to PG's credibility. IMHO, core should disallow feature +additions in point releases for contrib modules, as well as the core +code, except for very unusual situations. If contrib authors don't like +this facet of our release engineering process, they can always +distribute their code via some other outlet (gborg, SF, etc.). + +-Neil + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 03:48:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809C3D1C4E1 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 06:48:48 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 93887-01 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 03:47:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fuji.krosing.net (silmet.estpak.ee [194.126.97.78]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9A9D1C4C1 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 03:48:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fuji.krosing.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by fuji.krosing.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h766gYaB004687; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:42:34 +0300 +Received: (from hannu@localhost) + by fuji.krosing.net (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h766gXc6004685; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:42:33 +0300 +X-Authentication-Warning: fuji.krosing.net: hannu set sender to hannu@tm.ee + using -f +Subject: Re: How Many Inserts Per Transactions +From: Hannu Krosing +To: Trevor Astrope +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: +References: +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-Id: <1060152153.4517.9.camel@fuji.krosing.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 06 Aug 2003 09:42:33 +0300 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/93 +X-Sequence-Number: 2910 + +Trevor Astrope kirjutas T, 05.08.2003 kell 18:59: +> I was wondering if anyone found a sweet spot regarding how many inserts to +> do in a single transaction to get the best performance? Is there an +> approximate number where there isn't any more performance to be had or +> performance may drop off? +> +> It's just a general question...I don't have any specific scenario, other +> than there are multiple backends doing many inserts. + +I did test on huge (up to 60 million rows) simple table (5 fields with +primary key) and found that at that size many inserts per transaction +was actually a little slower than single inserts. It probably had to do +with inserting/checking new index entries and moving index pages from/to +disk. + +With small sizes or no index ~100 inserts/transaction was significantly +faster though. + +I did run several (10-30) backends in parallel. + +The computer was quad Xeon with 2GB RAM and ~50 MB/sec RAID. + +------------------ +Hannu + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 04:35:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997F6D1C50B + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 07:35:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 93887-08 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 04:34:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fw.wubn.net (unknown [213.156.64.226]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76E1D1C4BD + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 04:35:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from (172.24.4.34) + by fw.wubn.net (8.12.9/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h767Z8Pt089881 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:35:12 +0300 (EEST) + (envelope-from yamazurak@Lviv.Bank.Gov.UA) +Received: from (172.24.4.57) by MTA (8.11.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h767Z8f10476 + for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:35:08 +0300 +Message-ID: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:34:54 +0300 +From: Yaroslav Mazurak +Organization: National Bank of Ukraine Lviv OU +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; + micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms010302040000060805040208" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/94 +X-Sequence-Number: 2911 + +This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. + +--------------ms010302040000060805040208 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; + boundary="------------000904080005000201080507" + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. +--------------000904080005000201080507 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + + Hi All! + + + I have installed PostgreSQL 7.3.2 on FreeBSD 4.7, running on PC with +CPU Pentium II 400MHz and 384Mb RAM. + + Problem is that SQL statement (see below) is running too long. With +current WHERE clause 'SUBSTR(2, 2) IN ('NL', 'NM') return 25 records. +With 1 record, SELECT time is about 50 minutes and takes approx. 120Mb +RAM. With 25 records SELECT takes about 600Mb of memory and ends after +about 10 hours with error: "Memory exhausted in AllocSetAlloc(32)". + + *** + How can I speed up processing? Why query (IMHO not too complex) +executes so long? :( + *** + + Information about configuration, data structures and table sizes see +below. Model picture attached. + + Current postgresql.conf settings (some) are: + +=== Cut === +max_connections = 8 + +shared_buffers = 8192 +max_fsm_relations = 256 +max_fsm_pages = 65536 +max_locks_per_transaction = 16 +wal_buffers = 256 + +sort_mem = 131072 +vacuum_mem = 16384 + +checkpoint_segments = 4 +checkpoint_timeout = 300 +commit_delay = 32000 +commit_siblings = 4 +fsync = false + +enable_seqscan = false + +effective_cache_size = 65536 +=== Cut === + + SELECT statement is: + +SELECT showcalc('B00204', dd, r020, t071) AS s04 +FROM v_file02wide +WHERE a011 = 3 + AND inrepdate(data) + AND SUBSTR(ncks, 2, 2) IN ('NL', 'NM') + AND r030 = 980; + + Query plan is: + + + QUERY PLAN + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Aggregate (cost=174200202474.99..174200202474.99 rows=1 width=143) + -> Hash Join (cost=174200199883.63..174200202474.89 rows=43 width=143) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_k041 = "inner".id_k041) + -> Hash Join (cost=174200199880.57..174200202471.07 rows=43 +width=139) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_r030 = "inner".id_r030) + -> Hash Join (cost=174200199865.31..174200202410.31 +rows=8992 width=135) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_r020 = "inner".id_r020) + -> Hash Join +(cost=174200199681.91..174200202069.55 rows=8992 width=124) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_dd = "inner".id_dd) + -> Merge Join +(cost=174200199676.04..174200201906.32 rows=8992 width=114) + Merge Cond: ("outer".id_v = "inner".id_v) + Join Filter: (("outer".data >= CASE +WHEN ("inner".dataa IS NOT NULL) THEN "inner".dataa WHEN ("outer".data +IS NOT NULL) THEN "outer".data ELSE NULL::date END) AND ("outer".data <= +CASE WHEN ("inner".datab IS NOT NULL) THEN "inner".datab WHEN +("outer".data IS NOT NULL) THEN "outer".data ELSE NULL::date END)) + -> Sort (cost=42528.39..42933.04 +rows=161858 width=65) + Sort Key: filexxr.id_v + -> Hash Join +(cost=636.25..28524.10 rows=161858 width=65) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_obl += "inner".id_obl) + -> Hash Join +(cost=632.67..25687.99 rows=161858 width=61) + Hash Cond: +("outer".id_r = "inner".id_r) + -> Index Scan using +index_file02_k041 on file02 (cost=0.00..18951.63 rows=816093 width=32) + -> Hash +(cost=615.41..615.41 rows=6903 width=29) + -> Index Scan +using index_filexxr_a011 on filexxr (cost=0.00..615.41 rows=6903 width=29) + Index +Cond: (id_a011 = 3) + Filter: +inrepdate(data) + -> Hash (cost=3.47..3.47 +rows=43 width=4) + -> Index Scan using +kod_obl_pkey on kod_obl obl (cost=0.00..3.47 rows=43 width=4) + -> Sort +(cost=174200157147.65..174200157150.57 rows=1167 width=49) + Sort Key: dov_tvbv.id_v + -> Merge Join +(cost=0.00..174200157088.20 rows=1167 width=49) + Merge Cond: +("outer".id_bnk = "inner".id_bnk) + -> Index Scan using +dov_bank_pkey on dov_bank (cost=0.00..290100261328.45 rows=1450 width=13) + Filter: (subplan) + SubPlan + -> Materialize +(cost=100000090.02..100000090.02 rows=29 width=11) + -> Seq Scan +on dov_bank (cost=100000000.00..100000090.02 rows=29 width=11) + +Filter: ((substr((box)::text, 2, 2) = 'NL'::text) OR +(substr((box)::text, 2, 2) = 'NM'::text)) + -> Index Scan using +index_dov_tvbv_bnk on dov_tvbv (cost=0.00..142.42 rows=2334 width=36) + -> Hash (cost=5.83..5.83 rows=16 width=10) + -> Index Scan using ek_pok_r_pkey on +ek_pok_r epr (cost=0.00..5.83 rows=16 width=10) + -> Hash (cost=178.15..178.15 rows=2100 width=11) + -> Index Scan using kl_r020_pkey on kl_r020 + (cost=0.00..178.15 rows=2100 width=11) + -> Hash (cost=15.26..15.26 rows=1 width=4) + -> Index Scan using kl_r030_pkey on kl_r030 r030 + (cost=0.00..15.26 rows=1 width=4) + Filter: ((r030)::text = '980'::text) + -> Hash (cost=3.04..3.04 rows=4 width=4) + -> Index Scan using kl_k041_pkey on kl_k041 +(cost=0.00..3.04 rows=4 width=4) +(45 rows) + + Function showcalc definition is: + +CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION showcalc(VARCHAR(10), VARCHAR(2), VARCHAR(4), +NUMERIC(16)) RETURNS NUMERIC(16) +LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +-- Parameters: code, dd, r020, t071 + SELECT COALESCE( + (SELECT sc.koef * $4 + FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc + WHERE s.kod LIKE $1 + AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) LIKE ''['' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) LIKE $3 + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) LIKE SUBSTR($2, 1, 1)), + (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), $2, $3, $4), 0)) + FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc + WHERE s.kod LIKE $1 + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) LIKE ''[''), + 0) AS showing; +'; + + View v_file02wide is: + +CREATE VIEW v_file02wide AS +SELECT id_a011 AS a011, data, obl.ko, obl.nazva AS oblast, b030, +banx.box AS ncks, banx.nazva AS bank, + epr.dd, r020, r030, a3, r030.nazva AS valuta, k041, + -- Sum equivalent in national currency + t071 * get_kurs(id_r030, data) AS t070, + t071 +FROM v_file02 AS vf02 + JOIN kod_obl AS obl USING(id_obl) + JOIN (dov_bank NATURAL JOIN dov_tvbv) AS banx + ON banx.id_v = vf02.id_v + AND data BETWEEN COALESCE(banx.dataa, data) + AND COALESCE(banx.datab, data) + JOIN ek_pok_r AS epr USING(id_dd) + JOIN kl_r020 USING(id_r020) + JOIN kl_r030 AS r030 USING(id_r030) + JOIN kl_k041 USING(id_k041); + + Function inrepdate is: + +CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION inrepdate(DATE) RETURNS BOOL +LANGUAGE SQL AS ' + -- Returns true if given date is in repdate + SELECT (SELECT COUNT(*) FROM repdate + WHERE $1 BETWEEN COALESCE(data1, CURRENT_DATE) + AND COALESCE(data2, CURRENT_DATE)) + > 0; +'; + + Table sizes (records) + filexxr 34712 + file02 816589 + v_file02 816589 + kod_obl 43 + banx 2334 + ek_pok_r 16 + kl_r020 2100 + kl_r030 208 + kl_r041 4 + v_file02wide + showing 2787 + showcomp 13646 + repdate 1 + + Table has indexes almost for all selected fields. + showcalc in this query selects and uses 195 rows. + Total query size is 8066 records (COUNT(*) executes about 33 seconds +and uses 120Mb RAM). + + +With best regards + Yaroslav Mazurak. + +--------------000904080005000201080507 +Content-Type: image/gif; + name="model.gif" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 +Content-Disposition: inline; + filename="model.gif" + +R0lGODlhOwS6AvkAAAD/AP///wAAAAAAgCwAAAAAOwS6AkEC/4SPqcvtD6Oc +tNoqrt68+w+G4kiW5omm6sq2Lpm98kzX9o3Xcc73/s8TBIbEovGITCqXRYFz +KEw6n02m9Ypl7oDcrnfrDYvH5PILbE6r17Ro9g2XQucBt9Bdr8b3fCKaDRg4 +8SdYaHiImEKYyNhYiNcXKTlJWblYAlmpuckZeany6Sg6SnoYWkqR2bnK2hp3 +aoIXZaek6no060dXN5VL1+t76+diK6xHK5enayRrjAUbiyo9TZ0GXc1Q7Pz8 +uzv79H237akzbn5O3qKNzj5+DYMdLz/fRm+x3p6vX1e+jIyE7F+rYAR7eYNi 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(Postfix) with ESMTP + id 59686168FB; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:30:37 +0100 (BST) +From: Richard Huxton +To: Yaroslav Mazurak , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:30:36 +0100 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +In-Reply-To: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308061030.36610.dev@archonet.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/95 +X-Sequence-Number: 2912 + +On Wednesday 06 August 2003 08:34, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> Hi All! +> +> +> I have installed PostgreSQL 7.3.2 on FreeBSD 4.7, running on PC with +> CPU Pentium II 400MHz and 384Mb RAM. + +Version 7.3.4 is just out - probably worth upgrading as soon as it's +convenient. + +> Problem is that SQL statement (see below) is running too long. With +> current WHERE clause 'SUBSTR(2, 2) IN ('NL', 'NM') return 25 records. +> With 1 record, SELECT time is about 50 minutes and takes approx. 120Mb +> RAM. With 25 records SELECT takes about 600Mb of memory and ends after +> about 10 hours with error: "Memory exhausted in AllocSetAlloc(32)". +[snip] +> +> Current postgresql.conf settings (some) are: +> +> === Cut === +> max_connections = 8 +> +> shared_buffers = 8192 +> max_fsm_relations = 256 +> max_fsm_pages = 65536 +> max_locks_per_transaction = 16 +> wal_buffers = 256 +> +> sort_mem = 131072 +This sort_mem value is *very* large - that's 131MB for *each sort* that gets +done. I'd suggest trying something in the range 1,000-10,000. What's probably +happening with the error above is that PG is allocating ridiculous amounts of +memory, the machines going into swap and everything eventually grinds to a +halt. + +> vacuum_mem = 16384 +> +> checkpoint_segments = 4 +> checkpoint_timeout = 300 +> commit_delay = 32000 +> commit_siblings = 4 +> fsync = false + +I'd turn fsync back on - unless you don't mind losing your data after a crash. + +> enable_seqscan = false + +Don't tinker with these in a live system, they're only really for +testing/debugging. + +> effective_cache_size = 65536 + +So you typically get about 256MB cache usage in top/free? + +> === Cut === +> +> SELECT statement is: +> +> SELECT showcalc('B00204', dd, r020, t071) AS s04 +> FROM v_file02wide +> WHERE a011 = 3 +> AND inrepdate(data) +> AND SUBSTR(ncks, 2, 2) IN ('NL', 'NM') +> AND r030 = 980; + +Hmm - mostly views and function calls, OK - I'll read on. + +> (cost=174200202474.99..174200202474.99 rows=1 width=143) -> Hash Join + ^^^^^^^ +This is a BIG cost estimate and you've got lots more like them. I'm guessing +it's because of the sort_mem / enable_seqscan settings you have. The numbers +don't make sense to me - it sounds like you've pushed the cost estimator into +a very strange corner. + +> Function showcalc definition is: +> +> CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION showcalc(VARCHAR(10), VARCHAR(2), VARCHAR(4), +> NUMERIC(16)) RETURNS NUMERIC(16) +> LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +> -- Parameters: code, dd, r020, t071 +> SELECT COALESCE( +> (SELECT sc.koef * $4 +> FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc +> WHERE s.kod LIKE $1 +> AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) LIKE ''['' +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) LIKE $3 +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) LIKE SUBSTR($2, 1, 1)), +Obviously, you could use = for these 3 rather than LIKE ^^^ +Same below too. + +> (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +> LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), $2, $3, $4), 0)) +> FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc +> WHERE s.kod LIKE $1 +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) LIKE ''[''), +> 0) AS showing; +> '; +> +> View v_file02wide is: +> +> CREATE VIEW v_file02wide AS +> SELECT id_a011 AS a011, data, obl.ko, obl.nazva AS oblast, b030, +> banx.box AS ncks, banx.nazva AS bank, +> epr.dd, r020, r030, a3, r030.nazva AS valuta, k041, +> -- Sum equivalent in national currency +> t071 * get_kurs(id_r030, data) AS t070, +> t071 +> FROM v_file02 AS vf02 +> JOIN kod_obl AS obl USING(id_obl) +> JOIN (dov_bank NATURAL JOIN dov_tvbv) AS banx +> ON banx.id_v = vf02.id_v +> AND data BETWEEN COALESCE(banx.dataa, data) +> AND COALESCE(banx.datab, data) +> JOIN ek_pok_r AS epr USING(id_dd) +> JOIN kl_r020 USING(id_r020) +> JOIN kl_r030 AS r030 USING(id_r030) +> JOIN kl_k041 USING(id_k041); +You might want to rewrite the view so it doesn't use explicit JOIN statements, +i.e FROM a,b WHERE a.id=b.ref rather than FROM a JOIN b ON id=ref +At the moment, this will force PG into making the joins in the order you write +them (I think this is changed in v7.4) + + +> Function inrepdate is: +> +> CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION inrepdate(DATE) RETURNS BOOL +> LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +> -- Returns true if given date is in repdate +> SELECT (SELECT COUNT(*) FROM repdate +> WHERE $1 BETWEEN COALESCE(data1, CURRENT_DATE) +> AND COALESCE(data2, CURRENT_DATE)) +> +> > 0; + +You can probably replace this with: + SELECT true FROM repdate WHERE $1 ... +You'll need to look at where it's used though. + +[snip table sizes] +> Table has indexes almost for all selected fields. + +That's not going to help you for the SUBSTR(...) stuff, although you could use +functional indexes (see manuals/list archives for details). + +First thing is to get those two configuration settings somewhere sane, then we +can tune properly. You might like the document at: + +http://www.varlena.com/varlena/GeneralBits/Tidbits/perf.html + +-- + Richard Huxton + Archonet Ltd + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 07:14:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9BAD1C916 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:14:26 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 02577-08 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 07:13:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB39D1C7EB + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 07:14:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h76AEkU0002102 + for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:44:46 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76AEjip002074 + for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:44:45 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:46:06 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: How Many Inserts Per Transactions +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F3122BE.10716.137B9C@localhost> +In-reply-to: <60d6fkhxwl.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/96 +X-Sequence-Number: 2913 + +On 5 Aug 2003 at 12:28, Christopher Browne wrote: +> On Oracle, I have seen performance Suck Badly when using SQL*Load; if +> I grouped too many updates together, it started blowing up the +> "rollback segment," which was a Bad Thing. And in that kind of +> context, there will typically be some "sweet spot" where you want to +> commit transactions before they grow too big. +> +> In contrast, pg_dump/pg_restore puts the load of each table into a +> single COPY statement, so that if there are 15,000,000 entries in the +> table, that gets grouped into a single (rather enormous) transaction. +> And doing things that way presents no particular problem. + +Well, psotgresql recycles WAL files and use data files as well to store +uncommitted transaction. Correct me if I am wrong. + +Oracle does not do this. + +What does this buy? Oracle has constant time commits. I doubt if postgresql has +them with such a design. + +For what hassle that is worth, I would buy expand-on-disk as you go approach of +postgresql rather than spending time designing rollback segments for each +application. + +It's not nice when customer reports rollback segment overflow. Tablespaces over +file is royal pain when it does not work. + +Just a thought.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +boss, n: According to the Oxford English Dictionary, in the Middle Ages the +words "boss" and "botch" were largely synonymous, except that boss, in addition +to meaning "a supervisor of workers" also meant "an ornamental stud." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 08:49:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C081D1C7EB + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:49:25 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 12543-09 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:48:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pns.mm.eutelsat.org (pns.mm.eutelsat.org [194.214.173.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00402D1C91D + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:49:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from nts-03.mm.eutelsat.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by pns.mm.eutelsat.org (8.11.6/linuxconf) with ESMTP id h76BqYU26791; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:52:36 +0200 +Received: from gmendola (gmendola.mm.eutelsat.org [194.214.173.50]) + by nts-03.mm.eutelsat.org (8.11.6/linuxconf) with SMTP id h76BjOR06400; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:45:24 +0200 +Message-ID: <006801c35c10$9b55cef0$32add6c2@mm.eutelsat.org> +From: "Mendola Gaetano" +To: +Cc: "Yaroslav Mazurak" +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:48:06 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/97 +X-Sequence-Number: 2914 + +"Yaroslav Mazurak" +> Problem is that SQL statement (see below) is running too long. With +> current WHERE clause 'SUBSTR(2, 2) IN ('NL', 'NM') return 25 records. +> With 1 record, SELECT time is about 50 minutes and takes approx. 120Mb +> RAM. With 25 records SELECT takes about 600Mb of memory and ends after +> about 10 hours with error: "Memory exhausted in AllocSetAlloc(32)". + +Did you try to use a functional index on that field ? + +create or replace function my_substr(varchar) +returns varchar AS' +begin + return substr($1,2,2); +end; +' language 'plpgsql' +IMMUTABLE; + + +create index idx on ( my_substr() ); + + +and after you should use in your where: + +where my_substr() = 'NL' + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 09:43:29 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA0CD1C4C1 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:43:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18465-08 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:42:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fw.wubn.net (unknown [213.156.64.226]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F381D1C4BD + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:43:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from (172.24.4.34) + by fw.wubn.net (8.12.9/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h76Ch7Pt002774 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:43:08 +0300 (EEST) + (envelope-from yamazurak@Lviv.Bank.Gov.UA) +Received: from (172.24.4.57) by MTA (8.11.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h76Ch6f18473 + for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:43:06 +0300 +Message-ID: <3F30F7CF.6090900@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:42:55 +0300 +From: Yaroslav Mazurak +Organization: National Bank of Ukraine Lviv OU +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <200308061030.36610.dev@archonet.com> +In-Reply-To: <200308061030.36610.dev@archonet.com> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; + micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms000008090800050008060007" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/98 +X-Sequence-Number: 2915 + +This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. + +--------------ms000008090800050008060007 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + + Hi All! + + First, thanks for answers. + +Richard Huxton wrote: + +> On Wednesday 06 August 2003 08:34, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +> Version 7.3.4 is just out - probably worth upgrading as soon as it's +> convenient. + + Has version 7.3.4 significant performance upgrade relative to 7.3.2? +I've downloaded version 7.3.4, but not installed yet. + +>>sort_mem = 131072 + +> This sort_mem value is *very* large - that's 131MB for *each sort* that gets +> done. I'd suggest trying something in the range 1,000-10,000. What's probably +> happening with the error above is that PG is allocating ridiculous amounts of +> memory, the machines going into swap and everything eventually grinds to a +> halt. + + What mean "each sort"? Each query with SORT clause or some internal +(invisible to user) sorts too (I can't imagine: indexed search or +whatever else)? + I'm reduced sort_mem to 16M. + +>>fsync = false + +> I'd turn fsync back on - unless you don't mind losing your data after a crash. + + This is temporary performance solution - I want get SELECT query result +first, but current performance is too low. + +>>enable_seqscan = false + +> Don't tinker with these in a live system, they're only really for +> testing/debugging. + + This is another strange behavior of PostgreSQL - he don't use some +created indexes (seq_scan only) after ANALYZE too. OK, I'm turned on +this option back. + +>>effective_cache_size = 65536 + +> So you typically get about 256MB cache usage in top/free? + + No, top shows 12-20Mb. + I'm reduced effective_cache_size to 4K blocks (16M?). + +>> SELECT statement is: +>> +>>SELECT showcalc('B00204', dd, r020, t071) AS s04 +>>FROM v_file02wide +>>WHERE a011 = 3 +>> AND inrepdate(data) +>> AND SUBSTR(ncks, 2, 2) IN ('NL', 'NM') +>> AND r030 = 980; + +> Hmm - mostly views and function calls, OK - I'll read on. + + My data are distributed accross multiple tables to integrity and avoid +redundancy. During SELECT query these data rejoined to be presented in +"human-readable" form. :) + "SUBSTR" returns about 25 records, I'm too lazy for write 25 numbers. +:) I'm also worried for errors. + +>>(cost=174200202474.99..174200202474.99 rows=1 width=143) -> Hash Join + +> ^^^^^^^ +> This is a BIG cost estimate and you've got lots more like them. I'm guessing +> it's because of the sort_mem / enable_seqscan settings you have. The numbers +> don't make sense to me - it sounds like you've pushed the cost estimator into +> a very strange corner. + + I think that cost estimator "pushed into very strange corner" by himself. + +>> Function showcalc definition is: + +>>CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION showcalc(VARCHAR(10), VARCHAR(2), VARCHAR(4), +>>NUMERIC(16)) RETURNS NUMERIC(16) +>>LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +>>-- Parameters: code, dd, r020, t071 +>> SELECT COALESCE( +>> (SELECT sc.koef * $4 +>> FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc +>> WHERE s.kod LIKE $1 +>> AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) LIKE ''['' +>> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) LIKE $3 +>> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) LIKE SUBSTR($2, 1, 1)), + +> Obviously, you could use = for these 3 rather than LIKE ^^^ +> Same below too. + +>> (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +>>LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), $2, $3, $4), 0)) +>> FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc +>> WHERE s.kod LIKE $1 +>> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) LIKE ''[''), +>> 0) AS showing; +>>'; + + OK, all unnecessary "LIKEs" replaced by "=", JOIN removed too: +CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION showcalc(VARCHAR(10), VARCHAR(2), VARCHAR(4), +NUMERIC(16)) RETURNS NUMERIC(16) +LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +-- Parameters: code, dd, r020, t071 + SELECT COALESCE( + (SELECT sc.koef * $4 + FROM showing AS s, showcomp AS sc + WHERE sc.kod = s.kod + AND s.kod LIKE $1 + AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = ''['' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) = $3 + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) = SUBSTR($2, 1, 1)), + (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), $2, $3, $4), 0)) + FROM showing AS s, showcomp AS sc + WHERE sc.kod = s.kod + AND s.kod = $1 + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = ''[''), + 0) AS showing; +'; + +>> View v_file02wide is: + +>>CREATE VIEW v_file02wide AS +>>SELECT id_a011 AS a011, data, obl.ko, obl.nazva AS oblast, b030, +>>banx.box AS ncks, banx.nazva AS bank, +>> epr.dd, r020, r030, a3, r030.nazva AS valuta, k041, +>> -- Sum equivalent in national currency +>> t071 * get_kurs(id_r030, data) AS t070, +>> t071 +>>FROM v_file02 AS vf02 +>> JOIN kod_obl AS obl USING(id_obl) +>> JOIN (dov_bank NATURAL JOIN dov_tvbv) AS banx +>> ON banx.id_v = vf02.id_v +>> AND data BETWEEN COALESCE(banx.dataa, data) +>> AND COALESCE(banx.datab, data) +>> JOIN ek_pok_r AS epr USING(id_dd) +>> JOIN kl_r020 USING(id_r020) +>> JOIN kl_r030 AS r030 USING(id_r030) +>> JOIN kl_k041 USING(id_k041); + +> You might want to rewrite the view so it doesn't use explicit JOIN statements, +> i.e FROM a,b WHERE a.id=b.ref rather than FROM a JOIN b ON id=ref +> At the moment, this will force PG into making the joins in the order you write +> them (I think this is changed in v7.4) + + I think this is a important remark. Can "JOIN" significantly reduce +performance of SELECT statement relative to ", WHERE"? + OK, I'm changed VIEW to this text: + +CREATE VIEW v_file02 AS +SELECT filenum, data, id_a011, id_v, id_obl, id_dd, id_r020, id_r030, +id_k041, t071 +FROM filexxr, file02 +WHERE file02.id_r = filexxr.id_r; + +CREATE VIEW v_file02wide AS +SELECT id_a011 AS a011, data, obl.ko, obl.nazva AS oblast, b030, +banx.box AS ncks, banx.nazva AS bank, + epr.dd, r020, vf02.id_r030 AS r030, a3, kl_r030.nazva AS valuta, k041, + -- Sum equivalent in national currency + t071 * get_kurs(vf02.id_r030, data) AS t070, t071 +FROM v_file02 AS vf02, kod_obl AS obl, v_banx AS banx, + ek_pok_r AS epr, kl_r020, kl_r030, kl_k041 +WHERE obl.id_obl = vf02.id_obl + AND banx.id_v = vf02.id_v + AND data BETWEEN COALESCE(banx.dataa, data) + AND COALESCE(banx.datab, data) + AND epr.id_dd = vf02.id_dd + AND kl_r020.id_r020 = vf02.id_r020 + AND kl_r030.id_r030 = vf02.id_r030 + AND kl_k041.id_k041 = vf02.id_k041; + + Now (with configuration and view definition changed) "SELECT COUNT(*) +FROM v_file02wide;" executes about 6 minutes and 45 seconds instead of +30 seconds (previous). + Another annoying "feature" is impossibility writing "SELECT * FROM..." +- duplicate column names error. In NATURAL JOIN joined columns hiding +automatically. :-| + +>> Function inrepdate is: + +>>CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION inrepdate(DATE) RETURNS BOOL +>>LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +>> -- Returns true if given date is in repdate +>> SELECT (SELECT COUNT(*) FROM repdate +>> WHERE $1 BETWEEN COALESCE(data1, CURRENT_DATE) +>> AND COALESCE(data2, CURRENT_DATE)) +>> +>> > 0; + +> You can probably replace this with: +> SELECT true FROM repdate WHERE $1 ... +> You'll need to look at where it's used though. + + Hmm... table repdate contain date intervals. For example: + data1 data2 + 2003-01-01 2003-01-10 + 2003-05-07 2003-05-24 + ... + I need single value (true or false) about given date as parameter - +report includes given date or not. COUNT used as aggregate function for +this. Can you write this function more simpler? + BTW, I prefer SQL language if possible, then PL/pgSQL. This may be mistake? + +>> Table has indexes almost for all selected fields. + +> That's not going to help you for the SUBSTR(...) stuff, although you could use +> functional indexes (see manuals/list archives for details). + + Yes, I'm using functional indexes, but not in this case... now in this +case too! :) + +> First thing is to get those two configuration settings somewhere sane, then we +> can tune properly. You might like the document at: + +> http://www.varlena.com/varlena/GeneralBits/Tidbits/perf.html + + Thanks, it's interesting. + + Current query plan: + + + QUERY PLAN + + +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Aggregate (cost=188411.98..188411.98 rows=1 width=151) + -> Hash Join (cost=186572.19..188398.39 rows=5437 width=151) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_obl = "inner".id_obl) + -> Hash Join (cost=186570.65..188301.70 rows=5437 width=147) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_dd = "inner".id_dd) + -> Hash Join (cost=186569.45..188205.34 rows=5437 +width=137) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_k041 = "inner".id_k041) + -> Hash Join (cost=186568.40..188109.14 +rows=5437 width=133) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_r020 = "inner".id_r020) + -> Hash Join (cost=186499.15..187944.74 +rows=5437 width=122) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_r030 = +"inner".id_r030) + -> Merge Join +(cost=186493.55..187843.99 rows=5437 width=118) + Merge Cond: ("outer".id_v = +"inner".id_v) + Join Filter: (("outer".data >= +CASE WHEN ("inner".dataa IS NOT NULL) THEN "inner".dataa WHEN +("outer".data IS NOT NULL) THEN "outer".data ELSE NULL::date END) AND +("outer".data <= CASE WHEN ("inner".datab IS NOT NULL) THEN +"inner".datab WHEN ("outer".data IS NOT NULL) THEN "outer".data ELSE +NULL::date END)) + -> Sort +(cost=29324.30..29568.97 rows=97870 width=61) + Sort Key: filexxr.id_v + -> Hash Join +(cost=632.67..21211.53 rows=97870 width=61) + Hash Cond: +("outer".id_r = "inner".id_r) + -> Seq Scan on +file02 (cost=0.00..16888.16 rows=493464 width=32) + Filter: +(id_r030 = 980) + -> Hash +(cost=615.41..615.41 rows=6903 width=29) + -> Index Scan +using index_filexxr_a011 on filexxr (cost=0.00..615.41 rows=6903 width=29) + Index +Cond: (id_a011 = 3) + Filter: +inrepdate(data) + -> Sort +(cost=157169.25..157172.17 rows=1167 width=57) + Sort Key: v.id_v + -> Hash Join +(cost=1.18..157109.80 rows=1167 width=57) + Hash Cond: +("outer".id_oz = "inner".id_oz) + -> Merge Join +(cost=0.00..157088.20 rows=1167 width=53) + Merge Cond: +("outer".id_bnk = "inner".id_bnk) + -> Index Scan +using dov_bank_pkey on dov_bank b (cost=0.00..261328.45 rows=1450 width=17) + Filter: +(subplan) + SubPlan + -> +Materialize (cost=90.02..90.02 rows=29 width=11) + +-> Seq Scan on dov_bank (cost=0.00..90.02 rows=29 width=11) + + Filter: ((dov_bank_box_22(box) = 'NL'::character varying) OR +(dov_bank_box_22(box) = 'NM'::character varying)) + -> Index Scan +using index_dov_tvbv_bnk on dov_tvbv v (cost=0.00..142.42 rows=2334 +width=36) + -> Hash +(cost=1.14..1.14 rows=14 width=4) + -> Seq Scan +on ozkb o (cost=0.00..1.14 rows=14 width=4) + -> Hash (cost=5.08..5.08 rows=208 +width=4) + -> Seq Scan on kl_r030 +(cost=0.00..5.08 rows=208 width=4) + -> Hash (cost=64.00..64.00 rows=2100 width=11) + -> Seq Scan on kl_r020 +(cost=0.00..64.00 rows=2100 width=11) + -> Hash (cost=1.04..1.04 rows=4 width=4) + -> Seq Scan on kl_k041 (cost=0.00..1.04 +rows=4 width=4) + -> Hash (cost=1.16..1.16 rows=16 width=10) + -> Seq Scan on ek_pok_r epr (cost=0.00..1.16 +rows=16 width=10) + -> Hash (cost=1.43..1.43 rows=43 width=4) + -> Seq Scan on kod_obl obl (cost=0.00..1.43 rows=43 +width=4) +(49 rows) + + Now (2K shared_buffers blocks, 16K effective_cache_size blocks, 16Mb +sort_mem) PostgreSQL uses much less memory, about 64M... it's not good, +I want using all available RAM if possible - PostgreSQL is the main task +on this PC. + May set effective_cache_size to 192M (48K blocks) be better? I don't +understand exactly: effective_cache_size tells PostgreSQL about OS cache +size or about available free RAM? + + +With best regards + Yaroslav Mazurak. + + + +--------------ms000008090800050008060007 +Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" +Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature + +MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEH +AQAAoIIGUjCCAxIwggJ7oAMCAQICAwmhhDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADCBkjEL +MAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJ +Q2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZUaGF3dGUxHTAbBgNVBAsTFENlcnRpZmlj +YXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9QZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBSU0Eg +MjAwMC44LjMwMB4XDTAzMDQwMTA5MDYxNVoXDTA0MDMzMTA5MDYxNVowTDEf +MB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjEpMCcGCSqGSIb3DQEJ +ARYaeWFtYXp1cmFrQGx2aXYuYmFuay5nb3YudWEwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB +AQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC2KQYjqR5t4kSI8h5CVPC8s+NNE80YXKNUCosu +VbjaKPm1/M/QzzP+jqfPqI0fSsS9LZWF3ypuDtduU+gCnuOktDl8ygOohCNk +eXXX6DTCMAoO6VpYf3/QqEB1MMa9O90sZrYfL1PTwNQ8KDddfEUuIO1pznRl +JCUzSUpgzNH3CHu9z0zwUfOeGNmzTgzVgY5N8QUU9UouKFfTVHEJWtAr+/ZU +96RIEMNp+E8N3uMXoKdXRmGuhqMW9gHq9a4lZIk7wsCoKSyfVWCk2w515Z0X +2zN2ITTFtvAxzBLZDbSSJU6FnPQzDgD2Der0aDd2inxu646HM85qdVnv+MXg +Y1wtAgMBAAGjNzA1MCUGA1UdEQQeMByBGnlhbWF6dXJha0Bsdml2LmJhbmsu +Z292LnVhMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEAK+ak7q4u +l9palI2Lq6jZ+5/ljdeWhU0oI+Utu1MfaZQzthKfbQ/CYMJDf7x8cTIbRrqT +L5axjDikuzcXwGe0H0O8Jlm68pgjcOOEZNs/PXE7Pd9A7D+Z46qij7Js0RXa +39FSYYxnLwF+/u2eb8v1ORvyQULWJMzNSZ7c8XKaOj0wggM4MIICoaADAgEC +AhBmRXK3zHT1z2N2RYTQLpEBMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMIHRMQswCQYDVQQG +EwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVybiBDYXBlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlDYXBlIFRv +d24xGjAYBgNVBAoTEVRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nMSgwJgYDVQQLEx9DZXJ0 +aWZpY2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlzaW9uMSQwIgYDVQQDExtUaGF3dGUg +UGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgQ0ExKzApBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWHHBlcnNvbmFs +LWZyZWVtYWlsQHRoYXd0ZS5jb20wHhcNMDAwODMwMDAwMDAwWhcNMDQwODI3 +MjM1OTU5WjCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2Fw +ZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZUaGF3dGUxHTAbBgNV +BAsTFENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9QZXJzb25hbCBG +cmVlbWFpbCBSU0EgMjAwMC44LjMwMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCB +iQKBgQDeMzKmY8cJJUU+0m54J2eBxdqIGYKXDuNEKYpjNSptcDz63K737nRv +MLwzkH/5NHGgo22Y8cNPomXbDfpL8dbdYaX5hc1VmjUanZJ1qCeu2HL5ugL2 +17CR3hzpq+AYA6h8Q0JQUYeDPPA5tJtUihOH/7ObnUlmAC0JieyUa+mhaQID +AQABo04wTDApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgGA1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVs +MS0yOTcwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADALBgNVHQ8EBAMCAQYwDQYJKoZI +hvcNAQEEBQADgYEAMbFLR135AXHl9VNsXXnWPZjAJhNigSKnEvgilegbSbcn +ewQ5uvzm8iTrkfq97A0qOPdQVahs9w2tTBu8A/S166JHn2yiDFiNMUIJEWyw +GmnRKxKyQF1q+XnQ6i4l3Yrk/NsNH50C81rbyjz2ROomaYd/SJ7OpZ/nhNjJ +YmKtBcYxggJ2MIICcgIBATCBmjCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgT +DFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZU +aGF3dGUxHTAbBgNVBAsTFENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNlcnZpY2VzMSgwJgYDVQQD +Ex9QZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBSU0EgMjAwMC44LjMwAgMJoYQwCQYFKw4D +AhoFAKCBsTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJ +BTEPFw0wMzA4MDYxMjQyNTVaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBRzpeGWs9A5dsXs +o0yJWonTue5xWDBSBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xRTBDMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqG +SIb3DQMCAgIAgDANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0D +AgIBKDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQBQPuzOte9gd9BXiI8gPdiDfywbWvfa +NuhlbTESyB0yvFl0jq5/uZgTaTdtH48OfSOG2DymB6kbPanQEhaKgcYKrw/V +xhsacZQ/LJxg4ANVz9+eJvKpiEmXvGcKVCS8NHx2Y76Im3Dz5VZ3wp+ZIEFf +3+j1A+nDr1sXE0n8uYHpZV/Lq2au3DmlIdajgbVfym7qe6DSCaeL9aSFH9a6 +QOP188f47EUPaoa8e2LEn1cjrBxqSlt8KbSLqAntS9jbePkPb3takp16HlwG +PJqIOa8Ysg/DSumUAEmIEAH+qjeEELnO8i785f5Or9Gs+3Gy5oYXkiXysGr5 +5siBXhonYzU8AAAAAAAA + +--------------ms000008090800050008060007-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 09:52:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FBE5D1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:51:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 20284-09 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:50:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651C3D1C48E + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:51:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h76CqM0F019989 + for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:22:22 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76CqLip019976; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:22:22 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, + Yaroslav Mazurak +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:23:40 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F3147AC.10040.A3BF40@localhost> +In-reply-to: <3F30F7CF.6090900@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +References: <200308061030.36610.dev@archonet.com> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/99 +X-Sequence-Number: 2916 + +On 6 Aug 2003 at 15:42, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> >>sort_mem = 131072 +> > This sort_mem value is *very* large - that's 131MB for *each sort* that gets +> > done. I'd suggest trying something in the range 1,000-10,000. What's probably +> > happening with the error above is that PG is allocating ridiculous amounts of +> > memory, the machines going into swap and everything eventually grinds to a +> > halt. +> +> What mean "each sort"? Each query with SORT clause or some internal +> (invisible to user) sorts too (I can't imagine: indexed search or +> whatever else)? +> I'm reduced sort_mem to 16M. + +Good call. I would say start with 4M if you time to experiment. + +> >>enable_seqscan = false +> +> > Don't tinker with these in a live system, they're only really for +> > testing/debugging. +> +> This is another strange behavior of PostgreSQL - he don't use some +> created indexes (seq_scan only) after ANALYZE too. OK, I'm turned on +> this option back. + +At times it thinks correct as well. An index scan might be costly. It does not +hurt leaving this option on. If your performance improves by turning off this +option, usually the problem is somewhere else.. + +> +> >>effective_cache_size = 65536 +> +> > So you typically get about 256MB cache usage in top/free? +> +> No, top shows 12-20Mb. +> I'm reduced effective_cache_size to 4K blocks (16M?). + +Are you on linux?( I lost OP). Don't trust top. Use free to find out how much +true free memory you have.. Look at second line of free.. + +HTH + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +millihelen, n.: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 09:55:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02527D1C4C1 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:54:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 23684-03 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:53:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from neuromancer.ctlno.com (unknown [208.13.35.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F947D1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:54:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from tocr (ool-4352919e.dyn.optonline.net [67.82.145.158]) + by neuromancer.ctlno.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h76D32R02231; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:03:02 -0500 +Subject: Re: Some vacuum & tuning help +From: "Matthew T. O'Connor" +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Bruce Momjian , + shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <15808.1060145134@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <200308051649.h75Gn1G25462@candle.pha.pa.us> + <1060143711.17472.2.camel@zeutrh9> <15808.1060145134@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Zeut Tech +Message-Id: <1060174448.19347.0.camel@zeutrh9> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 (1.4.3-1) +Date: 06 Aug 2003 08:54:09 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/100 +X-Sequence-Number: 2917 + +On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 00:45, Tom Lane wrote: +> For core code, the answer would be a big NYET. We do not do feature +> additions in point releases, only bug fixes. While contrib code is more +> under the author's control than the core committee's control, I'd still +> say that you'd be making a big mistake to not follow that basic +> guideline. People expect release x.y.z+1 to be the same as x.y.z except +> for bug fixes. Introducing any new bugs into x.y.z+1 would cause a +> large loss in your credibility. +> +> (speaking as one who's introduced new bugs into a point-release +> recently, and is still embarrassed about it, even though the intent +> was only to fix older bugs...) + +Right, OK, that is basically the answer I was expecting, but thought I +would ask. + +Matthew + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 12:20:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F30DD1C48E + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:50:25 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 32159-08 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:49:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp011.mail.yahoo.com (smtp011.mail.yahoo.com + [216.136.173.31]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3865ED1C4C1 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:50:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from unknown (HELO notebook) (wgalafassijr@200.180.192.112 with + login) + by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2003 13:50:17 -0000 +Message-ID: <009d01c35c21$ba3a1270$70c0b4c8@notebook> +From: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +To: +Subject: Postgresql slow on XEON 2.4ghz/1gb ram +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:50:38 -0300 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009A_01C35C08.92ACD580" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/287 +X-Sequence-Number: 46704 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C35C08.92ACD580 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Hello. +I have this problem: i'm running the postgre 7.3 on a windows 2000 server w= +ith P3 1GHZ DUAL/1gb ram with good performance. For best performance i hav= +e change the server for a XEON 2.4/1gb ram and for my suprise the perform= +ance decrease 80%. anybody have a similar experience? does exist any specia= +l configuration to postgre running on a Xeon processor? Any have any idea t= +o help-me? Excuse-me my bad english. +Very Thanks +Wilson +icq 77032308 +msn wgalafassijr@hotmail.com + +------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C35C08.92ACD580 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + + + + + +
+
Hello.
+
I have this problem: i'm running = +;the=20 +postgre 7.3 on a windows 2000 server with  P3 1GHZ DUAL= +/1gb=20 +ram with good performance. For best performance i = +have=20 +change the server for a  XEON 2.4/1gb ram and for  my= +=20 +suprise the performance decrease 80%. anybody have a similar=20 +experience? does exist any special configuration to postgre runni= +ng on=20 +a Xeon processor? Any have any idea to help-me? Excuse-me my bad=20 +english.
+
Very Thanks
+
Wilson
+
icq 77032308
+
msn=20 +wgalafassijr@hotmail.com
+
 
+ +------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C35C08.92ACD580-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 12:39:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC57BD1C4C1 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:38:40 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 45755-04 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:37:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net + [194.217.242.89]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2024FD1C4BD + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:38:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mwynhau.demon.co.uk ([193.237.186.96] + helo=mainbox.archonet.com) + by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) + id 19kQMs-000PhY-0V; Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:38:26 +0100 +Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 6C63317B1C; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:38:25 +0100 (BST) +Received: from mainbox.archonet.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with SMTP + id B259017B19; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:38:24 +0100 (BST) +Received: from 192.168.1.32 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dev) + by mainbox.archonet.com with HTTP; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:38:24 +0100 (BST) +Message-ID: <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> +In-Reply-To: <3F30F7CF.6090900@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <200308061030.36610.dev@archonet.com> + <3F30F7CF.6090900@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:38:24 +0100 (BST) +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +From: "Richard Huxton" +To: "Yaroslav Mazurak" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 +X-Priority: 3 +Importance: Normal +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/102 +X-Sequence-Number: 2919 + +>> On Wednesday 06 August 2003 08:34, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> +>> Version 7.3.4 is just out - probably worth upgrading as soon as it's +>> convenient. +> +> Has version 7.3.4 significant performance upgrade relative to 7.3.2? +> I've downloaded version 7.3.4, but not installed yet. + +No, but there are some bug fixes. + +>>>sort_mem = 131072 +> +>> This sort_mem value is *very* large - that's 131MB for *each sort* that + +> What mean "each sort"? Each query with SORT clause or some internal +> (invisible to user) sorts too (I can't imagine: indexed search or +> whatever else)? +> I'm reduced sort_mem to 16M. + +It means each sort - if you look at your query plan and see three "sort" +clauses that means that query might allocate 48MB to sorting. Now, that's +good because sorting items on disk is much slower. It's bad because that's +48MB less for everything else that's happening. + +>>>fsync = false +> +>> I'd turn fsync back on - unless you don't mind losing your data after a +>> crash. +> +> This is temporary performance solution - I want get SELECT query result +> first, but current performance is too low. +> +>>>enable_seqscan = false +> +>> Don't tinker with these in a live system, they're only really for +>> testing/debugging. +> +> This is another strange behavior of PostgreSQL - he don't use some +> created indexes (seq_scan only) after ANALYZE too. OK, I'm turned on +> this option back. + +Fair enough, we can work on those. With 7.3.x you can tell PG to examine +some tables more thouroughly to get better plans. + +>>>effective_cache_size = 65536 +> +>> So you typically get about 256MB cache usage in top/free? +> +> No, top shows 12-20Mb. +> I'm reduced effective_cache_size to 4K blocks (16M?). + +Cache size is in blocks of 8KB (usually) - it's a way of telling PG what +the chances are of disk blocks being already cached by Linux. + +>>> SELECT statement is: +>>> +>>>SELECT showcalc('B00204', dd, r020, t071) AS s04 +>>>FROM v_file02wide +>>>WHERE a011 = 3 +>>> AND inrepdate(data) +>>> AND SUBSTR(ncks, 2, 2) IN ('NL', 'NM') +>>> AND r030 = 980; +> +>> Hmm - mostly views and function calls, OK - I'll read on. +> +> My data are distributed accross multiple tables to integrity and avoid +> redundancy. During SELECT query these data rejoined to be presented in +> "human-readable" form. :) +> "SUBSTR" returns about 25 records, I'm too lazy for write 25 numbers. +> :) I'm also worried for errors. + +Sounds like good policy. + +> +>>>(cost=174200202474.99..174200202474.99 rows=1 width=143) -> Hash Join +> +>> ^^^^^^^ +>> This is a BIG cost estimate and you've got lots more like them. I'm +>> guessing +>> it's because of the sort_mem / enable_seqscan settings you have. The +>> numbers +>> don't make sense to me - it sounds like you've pushed the cost estimator +>> into +>> a very strange corner. +> +> I think that cost estimator "pushed into very strange corner" by himself. +> +>>> Function showcalc definition is: +> +>>>CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION showcalc(VARCHAR(10), VARCHAR(2), VARCHAR(4), +>>>NUMERIC(16)) RETURNS NUMERIC(16) +>>>LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +>>>-- Parameters: code, dd, r020, t071 +>>> SELECT COALESCE( +>>> (SELECT sc.koef * $4 +>>> FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc +>>> WHERE s.kod LIKE $1 +>>> AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) LIKE ''['' +>>> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) LIKE $3 +>>> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) LIKE SUBSTR($2, 1, 1)), +> +>> Obviously, you could use = for these 3 rather than LIKE ^^^ +>> Same below too. +> +>>> (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +>>>LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), $2, $3, $4), 0)) +>>> FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc +>>> WHERE s.kod LIKE $1 +>>> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) LIKE ''[''), +>>> 0) AS showing; +>>>'; +> +> OK, all unnecessary "LIKEs" replaced by "=", JOIN removed too: +> CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION showcalc(VARCHAR(10), VARCHAR(2), VARCHAR(4), +> NUMERIC(16)) RETURNS NUMERIC(16) +> LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +> -- Parameters: code, dd, r020, t071 +> SELECT COALESCE( +> (SELECT sc.koef * $4 +> FROM showing AS s, showcomp AS sc +> WHERE sc.kod = s.kod +> AND s.kod LIKE $1 +> AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = ''['' +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) = $3 +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) = SUBSTR($2, 1, 1)), +> (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +> LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), $2, $3, $4), 0)) +> FROM showing AS s, showcomp AS sc +> WHERE sc.kod = s.kod +> AND s.kod = $1 +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = ''[''), +> 0) AS showing; +> '; +> +>>> View v_file02wide is: +> +>>>CREATE VIEW v_file02wide AS +>>>SELECT id_a011 AS a011, data, obl.ko, obl.nazva AS oblast, b030, +>>>banx.box AS ncks, banx.nazva AS bank, +>>> epr.dd, r020, r030, a3, r030.nazva AS valuta, k041, +>>> -- Sum equivalent in national currency +>>> t071 * get_kurs(id_r030, data) AS t070, +>>> t071 +>>>FROM v_file02 AS vf02 +>>> JOIN kod_obl AS obl USING(id_obl) +>>> JOIN (dov_bank NATURAL JOIN dov_tvbv) AS banx +>>> ON banx.id_v = vf02.id_v +>>> AND data BETWEEN COALESCE(banx.dataa, data) +>>> AND COALESCE(banx.datab, data) +>>> JOIN ek_pok_r AS epr USING(id_dd) +>>> JOIN kl_r020 USING(id_r020) +>>> JOIN kl_r030 AS r030 USING(id_r030) +>>> JOIN kl_k041 USING(id_k041); +> +>> You might want to rewrite the view so it doesn't use explicit JOIN +>> statements, +>> i.e FROM a,b WHERE a.id=b.ref rather than FROM a JOIN b ON id=ref +>> At the moment, this will force PG into making the joins in the order you +>> write +>> them (I think this is changed in v7.4) +> +> I think this is a important remark. Can "JOIN" significantly reduce +> performance of SELECT statement relative to ", WHERE"? +> OK, I'm changed VIEW to this text: + +It can sometimes. What it means is that PG will follow whatever order you +write the joins in. If you know joining a to b to c is the best order, +that can be a good thing. Unfortunately, it means the planner can't make a +better guess based on its statistics. + +> CREATE VIEW v_file02 AS +> SELECT filenum, data, id_a011, id_v, id_obl, id_dd, id_r020, id_r030, +> id_k041, t071 +> FROM filexxr, file02 +> WHERE file02.id_r = filexxr.id_r; +> +> CREATE VIEW v_file02wide AS +> SELECT id_a011 AS a011, data, obl.ko, obl.nazva AS oblast, b030, +> banx.box AS ncks, banx.nazva AS bank, +> epr.dd, r020, vf02.id_r030 AS r030, a3, kl_r030.nazva AS valuta, k041, +> -- Sum equivalent in national currency +> t071 * get_kurs(vf02.id_r030, data) AS t070, t071 +> FROM v_file02 AS vf02, kod_obl AS obl, v_banx AS banx, +> ek_pok_r AS epr, kl_r020, kl_r030, kl_k041 +> WHERE obl.id_obl = vf02.id_obl +> AND banx.id_v = vf02.id_v +> AND data BETWEEN COALESCE(banx.dataa, data) +> AND COALESCE(banx.datab, data) +> AND epr.id_dd = vf02.id_dd +> AND kl_r020.id_r020 = vf02.id_r020 +> AND kl_r030.id_r030 = vf02.id_r030 +> AND kl_k041.id_k041 = vf02.id_k041; +> +> Now (with configuration and view definition changed) "SELECT COUNT(*) +> FROM v_file02wide;" executes about 6 minutes and 45 seconds instead of +> 30 seconds (previous). + +OK - don't worry if it looks like we're going backwards, we should be able +to get everything running nicely soon. + +> Another annoying "feature" is impossibility writing "SELECT * FROM..." +> - duplicate column names error. In NATURAL JOIN joined columns hiding +> automatically. :-| +> +>>> Function inrepdate is: +> +>>>CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION inrepdate(DATE) RETURNS BOOL +>>>LANGUAGE SQL AS ' +>>> -- Returns true if given date is in repdate +>>> SELECT (SELECT COUNT(*) FROM repdate +>>> WHERE $1 BETWEEN COALESCE(data1, CURRENT_DATE) +>>> AND COALESCE(data2, CURRENT_DATE)) +>>> +>>> > 0; +> +>> You can probably replace this with: +>> SELECT true FROM repdate WHERE $1 ... +>> You'll need to look at where it's used though. +> +> Hmm... table repdate contain date intervals. For example: +> data1 data2 +> 2003-01-01 2003-01-10 +> 2003-05-07 2003-05-24 +> ... +> I need single value (true or false) about given date as parameter - +> report includes given date or not. COUNT used as aggregate function for +> this. Can you write this function more simpler? +> BTW, I prefer SQL language if possible, then PL/pgSQL. This may be +> mistake? + +No - not really. You can do things in plpgsql that you can't in sql, but I +use both depending on the situation. + +>>> Table has indexes almost for all selected fields. +> +>> That's not going to help you for the SUBSTR(...) stuff, although you +>> could use +>> functional indexes (see manuals/list archives for details). +> +> Yes, I'm using functional indexes, but not in this case... now in this +> case too! :) +> +>> First thing is to get those two configuration settings somewhere sane, +>> then we +>> can tune properly. You might like the document at: +> +>> http://www.varlena.com/varlena/GeneralBits/Tidbits/perf.html +> +> Thanks, it's interesting. +> +> Current query plan: +> +> +> QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +> Aggregate (cost=188411.98..188411.98 rows=1 width=151) +> -> Hash Join (cost=186572.19..188398.39 rows=5437 width=151) +> Hash Cond: ("outer".id_obl = "inner".id_obl) +> -> Hash Join (cost=186570.65..188301.70 rows=5437 width=147) +[snip] +Well the cost estimates look much more plausible. You couldn't post +EXPLAIN ANALYSE could you? That actually runs the query. + +> Now (2K shared_buffers blocks, 16K effective_cache_size blocks, 16Mb +> sort_mem) PostgreSQL uses much less memory, about 64M... it's not good, +> I want using all available RAM if possible - PostgreSQL is the main task +> on this PC. + +Don't forget that any memory PG is using the operating-system can't. The +OS will cache frequently accessed disk blocks for you, so it's a question +of finding the right balance. + +> May set effective_cache_size to 192M (48K blocks) be better? I don't +> understand exactly: effective_cache_size tells PostgreSQL about OS cache +> size or about available free RAM? + +It needs to reflect how much cache the system is using - try the "free" +command to see figures. + +If you could post the output of EXPLAIN ANALYSE rather than EXPLAIN, I'll +take a look at it this evening (London time). There's also plenty of other +people on this list who can help too. + +HTH + +- Richard Huxton + +From pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 15:14:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-admin-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98BD6D1C9E0 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:03:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 60788-05 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:02:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp013.mail.yahoo.com (smtp013.mail.yahoo.com + [216.136.173.57]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE72CD1C4C1 + for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:03:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from unknown (HELO notebook) (juniorlist@200.180.192.112 with login) + by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2003 18:03:20 -0000 +Message-ID: <01dd01c35c45$141a42b0$70c0b4c8@notebook> +From: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +To: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@svr1.postgresql.org> +Subject: PostgreSql under Linux +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:03:41 -0300 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01DA_01C35C2B.EC176090" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/83 +X-Sequence-Number: 9806 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_01DA_01C35C2B.EC176090 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Hello people. + +I'm installing Postgresql under linux for better performance and i want to = +know how is the best configuration. + +My server is a dual pentium3 1ghz/1gb ram/36gb scsi. running only postgresq= +l. My question is: +1. What is the best linux distribuition for better performance? +2. Does exists any compilation options to better performance on this machin= +e? + +Thanks + +Wilson Galafassi +------=_NextPart_000_01DA_01C35C2B.EC176090 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + + + + + +
Hello people.
+
 
+
I'm installing Postgresql under linux for = +better=20 +performance and i want to know how is the best configuration.
+
 
+
My server is a dual pentium3 1ghz/1gb ram/= +36gb=20 +scsi. running only postgresql. My question is:
+
1. What is the best linux distribuition fo= +r better=20 +performance?
+
2. Does exists any compilation options to = +better=20 +performance on this machine?
+
 
+
Thanks
+
 
+
Wilson Galafassi
+ +------=_NextPart_000_01DA_01C35C2B.EC176090-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 15:33:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81FDBD1C9EE + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:13:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 64849-01 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:12:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB64D1CA00 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:13:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76IDJSa001567; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:13:20 -0400 (EDT) +To: Yaroslav Mazurak +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +In-reply-to: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Comments: In-reply-to Yaroslav Mazurak + message dated "Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:34:54 +0300" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:13:19 -0400 +Message-ID: <1566.1060193599@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/105 +X-Sequence-Number: 2922 + +Yaroslav Mazurak writes: +> Current postgresql.conf settings (some) are: + +> max_locks_per_transaction = 16 + +This strikes me as a really bad idea --- you save little space by +reducing it from the default, and open yourself up to unexpected failures. + +> wal_buffers = 256 + +That is almost certainly way more than you need. + +> sort_mem = 131072 + +People have already told you that one's a bad idea. + +> commit_delay = 32000 + +I'm unconvinced that setting this nonzero is a good idea. Have you done +experiments to prove that you get a benefit? + +> enable_seqscan = false + +This is the cause of the bizarre-looking cost estimates. I don't +recommend setting it false as a system-wide setting. If you want +to nudge the planner towards indexscans, reducing random_page_cost +a little is probably a better way. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 15:17:30 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB3CD1C4BD + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:17:03 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 63735-06 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:15:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BAABD1C980 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:16:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76IGlSa001625; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:16:47 -0400 (EDT) +To: Yaroslav Mazurak +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +In-reply-to: <3F30F7CF.6090900@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <200308061030.36610.dev@archonet.com> + <3F30F7CF.6090900@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Comments: In-reply-to Yaroslav Mazurak + message dated "Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:42:55 +0300" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:16:47 -0400 +Message-ID: <1624.1060193807@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/104 +X-Sequence-Number: 2921 + +Yaroslav Mazurak writes: +>>> fsync = false + +>> I'd turn fsync back on - unless you don't mind losing your data after a crash. + +> This is temporary performance solution - I want get SELECT query result +> first, but current performance is too low. + +Disabling fsync will not help SELECT performance one bit. It would only +affect transactions that modify the database. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 15:56:27 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 505AED1C513 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:56:26 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66314-03 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:55:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mercury.elitra.com (unknown [12.35.196.84]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34FC9D1C92B + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:56:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from moebius.elitra.com ([192.168.201.111]) by mercury.elitra.com + with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:02:25 -0700 +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:56:14 -0400 (EDT) +From: Sebastien Lemieux +To: Postgresql-performance +Subject: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/106 +X-Sequence-Number: 2923 + +Hi, + + I'm running on Redhat 7.2 with postgresql 7.3.2 and I have two schema in +the same database 'db' and 'db_dev'. Both contain a set of >20 tables for +a total of less than 50 Mb of data each (on the order of 50k rows in +total). Once in a while (often these days!), I need to synchronize the +dev version from the production 'db'. Currently, I do this by setting +constraints to deferred, deleting everything in db_dev, then issue a serie +of insert ... select ... to copy data from each table in db to the +equivalent table in db_dev. + + This approach used to run in less than 30 seconds in MySQL, but in +PostgreSQL it currently takes around 30 minutes. The postmaster process +is running at 100% cpu all the time. I enclosed all the delete statement +in one transaction and all the insert statements in a second transaction. +All the time is taken at the commit of both transaction. + + Is there a more straightforward way to synchronize a development +database to a production one? Is there anyway to increase the performance +of this delete/insert combination? I've got indexes and constraints on +most tables, could that be the problem? At some point in the future, I +will also need to make a copy of a whole schema ('db' into 'db_backup'), +what would be an efficient way to do that? + + These are the parameters I've adjusted in the postgresql.conf: + +max_connections = 16 +shared_buffers = 3000 +max_fsm_relations = 2000 +max_fsm_pages = 20000 +sort_mem = 20000 +vacuum_mem = 20000 +effective_cache_size = 15000 + + And this is the memory state of the machine: + +slemieux@neptune> free + total used free shared buffers cached +Mem: 2059472 2042224 17248 24768 115712 1286572 +-/+ buffers/cache: 639940 1419532 +Swap: 2096440 490968 1605472 + +thanks, + +-- +Sebastien Lemieux +Bioinformatics, post-doc +Elitra-canada + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 16:29:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258D1D1C513 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:24:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65050-08 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:23:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0E5D1C975 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:24:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76JNLMY024290; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:23:21 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:09:47 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Sebastien Lemieux , + Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-Reply-To: <7235.1060197229@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/109 +X-Sequence-Number: 2926 + +On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: + +> Sebastien Lemieux writes: +> > All the time is taken at the commit of both transaction. +> +> Sounds like the culprit is foreign-key checks. +> +> One obvious question is whether you have your foreign keys set up +> efficiently in the first place. As a rule, the referenced and +> referencing columns should have identical datatypes and both should +> be indexed. (PG will often let you create foreign key constraints +> that don't meet these rules ... but performance will suffer.) + +Is this one of those things that should spit out a NOTICE when it happens? +I.e. when a table is created with a references and uses a different type +than the parent, would it be a good idea to issue a "NOTICE: parent and +child fields are not of the same type" + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 16:11:20 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC204D1C513 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:11:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 64986-06 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:09:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from shire.ontko.com (shire.ontko.com [199.164.165.1]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94188D1C7F5 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:11:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from nick (bilbo.ontko.com [199.164.165.101]) + by shire.ontko.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.4) with SMTP id + h76JB40P014975; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:11:05 -0500 +Reply-To: +From: "Nick Fankhauser" +To: "Sebastien Lemieux" , + "Postgresql-performance" +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:09:48 -0500 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) +In-Reply-To: +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +Importance: Normal +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/107 +X-Sequence-Number: 2924 + +Sebastien- + +I have a similar nightly process to keep our development system synched with +production. I just do a complete pg_dump of production, do a dropdb & +createdb to empty the database for development, and then restore the whole +db from the pg_dump file. Our database is about 12 GB currently, and it +takes less than one hour to dump & restore back into dev if I go through a +file. I can go even faster by piping the data to eliminate one set of reads +& writes to the disk: + +dropdb dev +createdb dev +pg_dump prod | psql dev + +This of course only works if you haven't changed your data structure in the +development area, but it is very simple and reasonably quick. + +in situations where the data structure has changed, I run a more complex +system that deletes data rather than drop the whole db, but I always drop +the indexes in development before restoring data and recreate them +afterwards. + +-Nick + + +> -----Original Message----- +> From: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org +> [mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Sebastien +> Lemieux +> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:56 PM +> To: Postgresql-performance +> Subject: [PERFORM] How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +> +> +> Hi, +> +> I'm running on Redhat 7.2 with postgresql 7.3.2 and I have two schema in +> the same database 'db' and 'db_dev'. Both contain a set of >20 tables for +> a total of less than 50 Mb of data each (on the order of 50k rows in +> total). Once in a while (often these days!), I need to synchronize the +> dev version from the production 'db'. Currently, I do this by setting +> constraints to deferred, deleting everything in db_dev, then issue a serie +> of insert ... select ... to copy data from each table in db to the +> equivalent table in db_dev. +> +> This approach used to run in less than 30 seconds in MySQL, but in +> PostgreSQL it currently takes around 30 minutes. The postmaster process +> is running at 100% cpu all the time. I enclosed all the delete statement +> in one transaction and all the insert statements in a second +> transaction. +> All the time is taken at the commit of both transaction. +> +> Is there a more straightforward way to synchronize a development +> database to a production one? Is there anyway to increase the +> performance +> of this delete/insert combination? I've got indexes and constraints on +> most tables, could that be the problem? At some point in the future, I +> will also need to make a copy of a whole schema ('db' into 'db_backup'), +> what would be an efficient way to do that? +> +> These are the parameters I've adjusted in the postgresql.conf: +> +> max_connections = 16 +> shared_buffers = 3000 +> max_fsm_relations = 2000 +> max_fsm_pages = 20000 +> sort_mem = 20000 +> vacuum_mem = 20000 +> effective_cache_size = 15000 +> +> And this is the memory state of the machine: +> +> slemieux@neptune> free +> total used free shared buffers cached +> Mem: 2059472 2042224 17248 24768 115712 1286572 +> -/+ buffers/cache: 639940 1419532 +> Swap: 2096440 490968 1605472 +> +> thanks, +> +> -- +> Sebastien Lemieux +> Bioinformatics, post-doc +> Elitra-canada +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? +> +> http://archives.postgresql.org +> + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 16:14:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A3BFD1C50B + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:14:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65925-06 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:12:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21641D1C92B + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:13:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76JDnSa007236; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:13:49 -0400 (EDT) +To: Sebastien Lemieux +Cc: Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-reply-to: +References: +Comments: In-reply-to Sebastien Lemieux + message dated "Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:56:14 -0400" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:13:49 -0400 +Message-ID: <7235.1060197229@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/108 +X-Sequence-Number: 2925 + +Sebastien Lemieux writes: +> All the time is taken at the commit of both transaction. + +Sounds like the culprit is foreign-key checks. + +One obvious question is whether you have your foreign keys set up +efficiently in the first place. As a rule, the referenced and +referencing columns should have identical datatypes and both should +be indexed. (PG will often let you create foreign key constraints +that don't meet these rules ... but performance will suffer.) + +Also, what procedure are you using to delete all the old data? What +I'd recommend is + ANALYZE table; + TRUNCATE table; + INSERT new data; +The idea here is to make sure that the planner's statistics reflect the +"full" state of the table, not the "empty" state. Otherwise it may pick +plans for the foreign key checks that are optimized for small tables. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 16:29:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0327BD1C975 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:29:46 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 68346-04 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:28:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DCE9D1C92F + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:29:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76JTOSa007407; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:29:24 -0400 (EDT) +To: "scott.marlowe" +Cc: Sebastien Lemieux , + Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-reply-to: +References: +Comments: In-reply-to "scott.marlowe" + message dated "Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:09:47 -0600" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:29:23 -0400 +Message-ID: <7406.1060198163@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/110 +X-Sequence-Number: 2927 + +"scott.marlowe" writes: +> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +>> One obvious question is whether you have your foreign keys set up +>> efficiently in the first place. As a rule, the referenced and +>> referencing columns should have identical datatypes and both should +>> be indexed. (PG will often let you create foreign key constraints +>> that don't meet these rules ... but performance will suffer.) + +> Is this one of those things that should spit out a NOTICE when it happens? +> I.e. when a table is created with a references and uses a different type +> than the parent, would it be a good idea to issue a "NOTICE: parent and +> child fields are not of the same type" + +I could see doing that for unequal data types, but I'm not sure if it's +reasonable to do it for lack of index. Usually you won't have created +the referencing column's index yet when you create the FK constraint, +so any warning would just be noise. (The referenced column's index *is* +checked for, since we require it to be unique.) + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 17:15:02 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49556D1C7F5 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:15:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71654-05 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:13:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B4AD1C4EC + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:14:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76KEXbS028736; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:14:33 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:00:59 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Sebastien Lemieux , + Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-Reply-To: <7406.1060198163@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/112 +X-Sequence-Number: 2929 + +On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: + +> "scott.marlowe" writes: +> > On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +> >> One obvious question is whether you have your foreign keys set up +> >> efficiently in the first place. As a rule, the referenced and +> >> referencing columns should have identical datatypes and both should +> >> be indexed. (PG will often let you create foreign key constraints +> >> that don't meet these rules ... but performance will suffer.) +> +> > Is this one of those things that should spit out a NOTICE when it happens? +> > I.e. when a table is created with a references and uses a different type +> > than the parent, would it be a good idea to issue a "NOTICE: parent and +> > child fields are not of the same type" +> +> I could see doing that for unequal data types, but I'm not sure if it's +> reasonable to do it for lack of index. Usually you won't have created +> the referencing column's index yet when you create the FK constraint, +> so any warning would just be noise. (The referenced column's index *is* +> checked for, since we require it to be unique.) + +Sure. I wasn't thinking of the index issue anyway, just the type +mismatch. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 17:24:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F009D1C4EC + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:23:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69550-07 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:22:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC9FD1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:23:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76KMmbS029457; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:22:48 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:09:14 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +Cc: +Subject: Re: partitioning for postgresql +In-Reply-To: <02da01c35c56$b9235830$70c0b4c8@notebook> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/113 +X-Sequence-Number: 2930 + +On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Wilson A. Galafassi Jr. wrote: + +> hello!!! +> what is suggested partitioning schema for postgresql?? +> the size of my db is 5BG and i have 36GB scsi disk! + +The first recommendation is to run Postgresql on a RAID set for +reliability. + +I'm assuming you're building a machine and need to put both the OS and +Postgresql database on that one disk. + +If that's the case, just put the OS on however you like (lotsa different +ways to partition for the OS) and leave about 30 gig for Postgresql to run +in, then just put the whole database $PGDATA directory on that partition. + +I'd recommend running ext3 with meta data journaling only for speed, +security, and ease of setup and use. XFS is the next choice, which is a +little harder to setup, as it's not included in most distros, but is +definitely faster than ext3 at most stuff. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 17:09:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18084D1C96F + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:09:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 70624-07 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:08:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp013.mail.yahoo.com (smtp013.mail.yahoo.com + [216.136.173.57]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B96B8D1C92F + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:09:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from unknown (HELO notebook) (juniorlist@200.180.192.112 with login) + by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2003 20:09:38 -0000 +Message-ID: <02da01c35c56$b9235830$70c0b4c8@notebook> +From: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +To: +Subject: partitioning for postgresql +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:09:59 -0300 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02D7_01C35C3D.917A7CF0" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/111 +X-Sequence-Number: 2928 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_02D7_01C35C3D.917A7CF0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +hello!!! +what is suggested partitioning schema for postgresql?? +the size of my db is 5BG and i have 36GB scsi disk! +thanks +wilson +------=_NextPart_000_02D7_01C35C3D.917A7CF0 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + + + + + +
hello!!!
+
what is suggested partitioning schema for= +=20 +postgresql??
+
the size of my db is 5BG and i have 36GB s= +csi=20 +disk!
+
thanks
+
wilson
+ +------=_NextPart_000_02D7_01C35C3D.917A7CF0-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 17:39:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A280D1C91A + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:39:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 68575-09 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:37:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp017.mail.yahoo.com (smtp017.mail.yahoo.com + [216.136.174.114]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AA14DD1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:39:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from unknown (HELO notebook) (juniorlist@200.180.192.112 with login) + by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2003 20:39:05 -0000 +Message-ID: <034201c35c5a$d5f3c2c0$70c0b4c8@notebook> +From: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +To: +Subject: ext3 block size +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:34:39 -0300 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0337_01C35C41.037A1D30" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/115 +X-Sequence-Number: 2932 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_0337_01C35C41.037A1D30 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +hello. +my database size is 5GB. what is the block size recommend? +thanks +wilson + +------=_NextPart_000_0337_01C35C41.037A1D30 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + + + + + +
hello.
+
my database size is 5GB. what is the block= + size=20 +recommend?
+
thanks
+
wilson
+
 
+ +------=_NextPart_000_0337_01C35C41.037A1D30-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 17:36:48 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35AB9D1C92F + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:36:45 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69550-09 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:35:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A10EDD1C4E3 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:36:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76KaVSa007897; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:36:32 -0400 (EDT) +To: Scott Cain +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +In-reply-to: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Comments: In-reply-to Scott Cain + message dated "31 Jul 2003 15:26:40 -0400" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:36:31 -0400 +Message-ID: <7896.1060202191@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/114 +X-Sequence-Number: 2931 + +Scott Cain writes: +> A few days ago, I asked for advice on speeding up substring queries on +> the GENERAL mailing list. Joe Conway helpfully pointed out the ALTER +> TABLE STORAGE EXTERNAL documentation. After doing the alter, +> the queries got slower! Here is the background: + +Ah-hah, I've sussed it ... you didn't actually change the storage +representation. You wrote: + +> Now, I'll change the storage: +> alter table feature alter column residues set storage external; +> To make sure that really happens, I run an update on feature: +> update feature set residues = residues where feature_id<8; +> and then VACUUM ANALYZE again. + +This sounds good --- in fact, I think we all just accepted it when we +read it --- but in fact *that update didn't decompress the toasted data*. +The tuple toaster sees that the same toasted value is being stored back +into the row, and so it just re-uses the existing toasted data; it does +not stop to notice that the column storage preference has changed. + +To actually get the storage to change, you need to feed the value +through some function or operator that will decompress it. Then it +won't get recompressed when it's stored. One easy way (since this +is a text column) is + + update feature set residues = residues || '' where feature_id<8; + +To verify that something really happened, try doing VACUUM VERBOSE on +the table before and after. The quoted number of tuples in the toast +table should rise substantially. + +I did the following comparisons on the test data you made available, +using two tables in which one has default storage and one has "external" +(not compressed) storage: + +scott=# \timing +Timing is on. +scott=# select length (dna) from edna; + length +----------- + 245203899 +(1 row) + +Time: 1.05 ms +scott=# select length (dna) from ddna; + length +----------- + 245203899 +(1 row) + +Time: 1.11 ms +scott=# select length(substring(dna from 1000000 for 20000)) from edna; + length +-------- + 20000 +(1 row) + +Time: 30.43 ms +scott=# select length(substring(dna from 1000000 for 20000)) from ddna; + length +-------- + 20000 +(1 row) + +Time: 37383.02 ms +scott=# + +So it looks like the external-storage optimization for substring() does +work as expected, once you get the data into the right format ... + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 17:52:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2582CD1C96A + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:51:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 76414-02 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:50:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA02DD1C7F5 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:51:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76Kp9bS002033; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:51:09 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:37:34 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +Cc: +Subject: Re: ext3 block size +In-Reply-To: <034201c35c5a$d5f3c2c0$70c0b4c8@notebook> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/117 +X-Sequence-Number: 2934 + +On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Wilson A. Galafassi Jr. wrote: + +> hello. +> my database size is 5GB. what is the block size recommend? + +Well, the biggest block size currently supported by stock linux distros is +4k, so I'd go with that. Postgresql's default block size of 8k is fine +also. Note that linux page/system/file block sizes are NOT related to +Postgresql block sizes. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 17:51:19 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E64D1C96A + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:51:17 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71474-07 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:49:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66B16D1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:51:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from dev6.int.libertyrms.com ([10.1.2.212] helo=libertyrms.info) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19kVFT-0000lq-00; Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:51:07 -0400 +Received: by libertyrms.info (Postfix, from userid 1079) + id A9BB5BBADC; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:51:07 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: partitioning for postgresql +From: Christopher Browne +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:51:07 -0400 +Message-ID: <60n0em8q84.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/116 +X-Sequence-Number: 2933 + +> what is suggested partitioning schema for postgresql?? +> the size of my db is 5BG and i have 36GB scsi disk! + +The interesting forms of partitioning kind of assume that you have +multiple disk drives. + +If you only have one drive, then there is not terribly much reason to +prefer anything much over simply having one big partition, and letting +the data fall where it will. + +If you had two drives, then it would make sense to have data on one +drive and WAL on the other. With three drives, having other I/O (such +as database logging) on a third drive would have merit. + +But none of those approaches are useful if you only have one disk +drive. +-- +"cbbrowne","@","libertyrms.info" + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 17:56:36 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3CCD1C97F + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:55:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71654-09 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:53:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from joeconway.com (66-146-172-86.skyriver.net [66.146.172.86]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23DDD1C96F + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:54:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [206.19.64.3] (account jconway HELO joeconway.com) + by joeconway.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) + with ESMTP-TLS id 24927; Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:15:56 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F316A41.6020403@joeconway.com> +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:51:13 -0700 +From: Joe Conway +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Scott Cain , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <7896.1060202191@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <7896.1060202191@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/118 +X-Sequence-Number: 2935 + +Tom Lane wrote: +> Scott Cain writes: +> +>>A few days ago, I asked for advice on speeding up substring queries on +>>the GENERAL mailing list. Joe Conway helpfully pointed out the ALTER +>>TABLE STORAGE EXTERNAL documentation. After doing the alter, +>>the queries got slower! Here is the background: +> +> Ah-hah, I've sussed it ... you didn't actually change the storage +> representation. You wrote: + +Yeah, I came to the same conclusion this morning (update longdna set dna += dna || '';), but it still seems that the chunked table is very +slightly faster than the substring on the externally stored column: + +dna=# explain analyze select pdna from dna where foffset > 6000000 and +foffset < 6024000; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Index Scan using foffset_idx on dna (cost=0.00..4.22 rows=14 +width=32) (actual time=0.06..0.16 rows=11 loops=1) + Index Cond: ((foffset > 6000000) AND (foffset < 6024000)) + Total runtime: 0.27 msec +(3 rows) + +dna=# explain analyze select pdna from dna where foffset > 6000000 and +foffset < 6024000; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Index Scan using foffset_idx on dna (cost=0.00..4.22 rows=14 +width=32) (actual time=0.07..0.16 rows=11 loops=1) + Index Cond: ((foffset > 6000000) AND (foffset < 6024000)) + Total runtime: 0.25 msec +(3 rows) + +dna=# explain analyze select substr(dna,6002000,20000) from longdna; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Seq Scan on longdna (cost=0.00..1.01 rows=1 width=32) (actual +time=0.46..0.47 rows=1 loops=1) + Total runtime: 0.58 msec +(2 rows) + +dna=# explain analyze select substr(dna,6002000,20000) from longdna; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Seq Scan on longdna (cost=0.00..1.01 rows=1 width=32) (actual +time=0.23..0.24 rows=1 loops=1) + Total runtime: 0.29 msec +(2 rows) + +I ran each command twice after starting psql to observe the effects of +caching. + +However with the provided sample data, longdna has only one row, and dna +has 122,540 rows, all of which are chunks of the one longdna row. I +would tend to think that if you had 1000 or so longdna records indexed +on some id column, versus 122,540,000 dna chunks indexed on both an id +and segment column, the substring from longdna would win. + +Joe + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 18:08:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F2DD1C9C8 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:08:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71365-10 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:07:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F81ED1C4EC + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:08:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76L8LSa008178; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:08:21 -0400 (EDT) +To: Joe Conway +Cc: Scott Cain , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +In-reply-to: <3F316A41.6020403@joeconway.com> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <7896.1060202191@sss.pgh.pa.us> <3F316A41.6020403@joeconway.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Joe Conway + message dated "Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:51:13 -0700" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:08:21 -0400 +Message-ID: <8177.1060204101@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/119 +X-Sequence-Number: 2936 + +Joe Conway writes: +> Tom Lane wrote: +>> Ah-hah, I've sussed it ... you didn't actually change the storage +>> representation. You wrote: + +> Yeah, I came to the same conclusion this morning (update longdna set dna +> = dna || '';), but it still seems that the chunked table is very +> slightly faster than the substring on the externally stored column: + +> dna=# explain analyze select pdna from dna where foffset > 6000000 and +> foffset < 6024000; +> QUERY PLAN +> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +> Index Scan using foffset_idx on dna (cost=0.00..4.22 rows=14 +> width=32) (actual time=0.07..0.16 rows=11 loops=1) +> Index Cond: ((foffset > 6000000) AND (foffset < 6024000)) +> Total runtime: 0.25 msec +> (3 rows) + +> dna=# explain analyze select substr(dna,6002000,20000) from longdna; +> QUERY PLAN +> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +> Seq Scan on longdna (cost=0.00..1.01 rows=1 width=32) (actual +> time=0.23..0.24 rows=1 loops=1) +> Total runtime: 0.29 msec +> (2 rows) + +This isn't a totally fair comparison, though, since the second case is +actually doing the work of assembling the chunks into a single string, +while the first is not. Data-copying alone would probably account for +the difference. + +I would expect that the two would come out to essentially the same cost +when fairly compared, since the dna table is nothing more nor less than +a hand implementation of the TOAST concept. The toaster's internal +fetching of toasted data segments ought to be equivalent to the above +indexscan. The toaster would have a considerable edge on Scott's +implementation when it came to assembling the chunks, since it's working +in C and not in plpgsql, but the table access costs ought to be just +about the same. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 18:23:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75ED6D1C97F + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:22:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 75105-09 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:20:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mercury.elitra.com (unknown [12.35.196.84]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64BF1D1C4E3 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:22:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from moebius.elitra.com ([192.168.201.111]) by mercury.elitra.com + with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:28:16 -0700 +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:22:05 -0400 (EDT) +From: Sebastien Lemieux +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-Reply-To: <7235.1060197229@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/120 +X-Sequence-Number: 2937 + +On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: + +> Sebastien Lemieux writes: +> > All the time is taken at the commit of both transaction. +> +> Sounds like the culprit is foreign-key checks. +> +> One obvious question is whether you have your foreign keys set up +> efficiently in the first place. As a rule, the referenced and +> referencing columns should have identical datatypes and both should +> be indexed. (PG will often let you create foreign key constraints +> that don't meet these rules ... but performance will suffer.) + +I've checked and all the foreign keys are setup between 'serial' (the +primary key of the referenced table) and 'integer not null' (the foreign +key field). Would that be same type? A couple of my foreign keys are not +indexed, I'll fix that. The latter seems to do the job, since I can now +synchronize in about 75 seconds (compared to 30 minutes), which seems good +enough. + +> Also, what procedure are you using to delete all the old data? What +> I'd recommend is +> ANALYZE table; +> TRUNCATE table; +> INSERT new data; +> The idea here is to make sure that the planner's statistics reflect the +> "full" state of the table, not the "empty" state. Otherwise it may pick +> plans for the foreign key checks that are optimized for small tables. + +I added the 'analyze' but without any noticable gain in speed. I can't +use 'truncate' since I need to 'set constraints all deferred'. I guess +the bottom line is that I really need to first drop all constraints and +indexes, synchronize and then rebuild indexes and check constraints. But +for that I'll need to reorganize my code a little bit! + +In the meantime, how bad a decision would it be to simply remove all +foreign key constraints? Because, currently I think they are causing more +problems than they are avoiding... + +thanks, + +-- +Sebastien Lemieux +Bioinformatics, post-doc +Elitra-canada + + + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 18:36:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B772ED1C92D + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:33:10 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 85552-01 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:31:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from home.samurai.com (home.samurai.com [205.207.28.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5018D1C91E + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:32:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by home.samurai.com (Postfix, from userid 1014) + id B66F026219; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:33:01 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:33:01 -0400 +From: Neil Conway +To: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSql under Linux +Message-ID: <20030806213301.GA28017@home.samurai.com> +References: <01dd01c35c45$141a42b0$70c0b4c8@notebook> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <01dd01c35c45$141a42b0$70c0b4c8@notebook> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/121 +X-Sequence-Number: 2938 + +On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 03:03:41PM -0300, Wilson A. Galafassi Jr. wrote: +> I'm installing Postgresql under linux for better performance and i want to know how is the best configuration. + +> 1. What is the best linux distribuition for better performance? + +The Linux distribution itself isn't that important, IMHO. Spend some time +selecting the right filesystem (check the archives for threads on this +topic), the right kernel (and perhaps compiling your own from scratch), +perhaps some kernel tuning (I/O scheduler, etc.), and so forth. + +> 2. Does exists any compilation options to better performance on this machine? + +Not compilation options, but there are plenty of configuration settings +you should be tweaking to ensure good performance. You can find a list +of configuration options here: + + http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/static/runtime-config.html + +-Neil + + +From pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 18:50:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-admin-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62991D1C9C8 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:36:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 83339-09 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:35:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from zooty.lancs.ac.uk (zooty.lancs.ac.uk [148.88.16.231]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C882D1C91D + for ; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:36:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.lancs.ac.uk ([148.88.1.10] helo=marl.lancs.ac.uk) + by zooty.lancs.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19kVxM-0004Vk-RY + for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2003 22:36:28 +0100 +Received: from faa034000015.lancs.ac.uk ([148.88.81.14] + helo=short.lancs.ac.uk) + by marl.lancs.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19kVxM-0004GT-00 + for pgsql-admin@postgresql.org; Wed, 06 Aug 2003 22:36:28 +0100 +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 22:39:52 +0100 (BST) +From: Sam Barnett-Cormack +X-X-Sender: sdb@short.lancs.ac.uk +To: PostgreSQL Administrators Mailing List +Subject: Re: PostgreSql under Linux +In-Reply-To: <01dd01c35c45$141a42b0$70c0b4c8@notebook> +Message-ID: +References: <01dd01c35c45$141a42b0$70c0b4c8@notebook> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/90 +X-Sequence-Number: 9813 + +On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Wilson A. Galafassi Jr. wrote: + +> Hello people. +> +> I'm installing Postgresql under linux for better performance and i want to know how is the best configuration. +> +> My server is a dual pentium3 1ghz/1gb ram/36gb scsi. running only postgresql. My question is: +> 1. What is the best linux distribuition for better performance? + +LFS (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/) if you have the time. WARNING: it +is a major undertaking, but for a machine dedicated to one task, where +virtually everything can be well-optimised for the machine, it has major +performance and admin benefits. + +Only try it if you have a lot of time and/or already know linux well. If +you have a *lot* of time, you will gain the knowledge as you go. If you +decide to, I'll see you on *that* mailing list. + +Also, I recommend slackware as an LFS base. + +-- + +Sam Barnett-Cormack +Software Developer | Student of Physics & Maths +UK Mirror Service (http://www.mirror.ac.uk) | Lancaster University + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 18:56:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A278D1C923 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:41:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 86456-02 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:40:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9DA5D1C90E + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:41:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id C7BDED6A0; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:41:43 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id BD4EF5C0F; Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:41:43 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:41:43 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Sebastien Lemieux +Cc: Tom Lane , + Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: <20030806143746.J7786-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/123 +X-Sequence-Number: 2940 + +On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Sebastien Lemieux wrote: + +> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +> +> > Sebastien Lemieux writes: +> > > All the time is taken at the commit of both transaction. +> > +> > Sounds like the culprit is foreign-key checks. +> > +> > One obvious question is whether you have your foreign keys set up +> > efficiently in the first place. As a rule, the referenced and +> > referencing columns should have identical datatypes and both should +> > be indexed. (PG will often let you create foreign key constraints +> > that don't meet these rules ... but performance will suffer.) +> +> I've checked and all the foreign keys are setup between 'serial' (the +> primary key of the referenced table) and 'integer not null' (the foreign +> key field). Would that be same type? A couple of my foreign keys are not +> indexed, I'll fix that. The latter seems to do the job, since I can now +> synchronize in about 75 seconds (compared to 30 minutes), which seems good +> enough. + +Another thing might be the management of the trigger queue. I don't think +7.3.2 had the optimization for limiting the scans of the queue when you +have lots of deferred triggers. It looks like 7.3.4 may though. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 18:55:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7DCD1C910 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:47:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 86388-04 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:46:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72ED4D1C91D + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:47:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76LlaSa009141; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:47:36 -0400 (EDT) +To: Sebastien Lemieux +Cc: Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-reply-to: +References: +Comments: In-reply-to Sebastien Lemieux + message dated "Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:22:05 -0400" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:47:36 -0400 +Message-ID: <9140.1060206456@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/122 +X-Sequence-Number: 2939 + +Sebastien Lemieux writes: +> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +>> The idea here is to make sure that the planner's statistics reflect the +>> "full" state of the table, not the "empty" state. Otherwise it may pick +>> plans for the foreign key checks that are optimized for small tables. + +> I added the 'analyze' but without any noticable gain in speed. I can't +> use 'truncate' since I need to 'set constraints all deferred'. + +What are you using, exactly? + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 6 19:07:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B35D1C916 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 22:07:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 86307-10 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:05:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF3CD1C910 + for ; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:07:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h76M6qSa009347; + Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:06:53 -0400 (EDT) +To: Stephan Szabo +Cc: Sebastien Lemieux , + Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-reply-to: <20030806143746.J7786-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +References: <20030806143746.J7786-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Stephan Szabo + message dated "Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:41:43 -0700" +Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:06:52 -0400 +Message-ID: <9346.1060207612@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/124 +X-Sequence-Number: 2941 + +Stephan Szabo writes: +> Another thing might be the management of the trigger queue. I don't think +> 7.3.2 had the optimization for limiting the scans of the queue when you +> have lots of deferred triggers. It looks like 7.3.4 may though. + +Good point. We put that in in 7.3.3, according to the CVS logs. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 04:05:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE08D1C4CB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:05:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 43181-05 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 04:04:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fw.wubn.net (unknown [213.156.64.226]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91BAD1C4EC + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 04:05:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from (172.24.4.34) + by fw.wubn.net (8.12.9/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h7775ZPt042146 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:05:37 +0300 (EEST) + (envelope-from yamazurak@Lviv.Bank.Gov.UA) +Received: from (172.24.4.57) by MTA (8.11.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h7775Zf06072 + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:05:35 +0300 +Message-ID: <3F31FA33.1050009@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:05:23 +0300 +From: Yaroslav Mazurak +Organization: National Bank of Ukraine Lviv OU +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <200308061030.36610.dev@archonet.com> + <3F30F7CF.6090900@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> +In-Reply-To: <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/125 +X-Sequence-Number: 2942 + + Hi All! + + +Richard Huxton wrote: + +>>>On Wednesday 06 August 2003 08:34, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +>>>>sort_mem = 131072 + +>>>This sort_mem value is *very* large - that's 131MB for *each sort* that + + It's not TOO large *for PostgreSQL*. When I'm inserting a large amount +of data into tables, sort_mem helps. Value of 192M speeds up inserting +significantly (verified :))! + +>> What mean "each sort"? Each query with SORT clause or some internal +>>(invisible to user) sorts too (I can't imagine: indexed search or +>>whatever else)? + +>> I'm reduced sort_mem to 16M. + +> It means each sort - if you look at your query plan and see three "sort" +> clauses that means that query might allocate 48MB to sorting. Now, that's +> good because sorting items on disk is much slower. It's bad because that's +> 48MB less for everything else that's happening. + + OK, I'm preparing to fix this value. :) + IMHO this is PostgreSQL's lack of memory management. I think that +PostgreSQL can finally allocate enough memory by himself! :-E + +>> This is another strange behavior of PostgreSQL - he don't use some +>>created indexes (seq_scan only) after ANALYZE too. OK, I'm turned on +>>this option back. + +> Fair enough, we can work on those. With 7.3.x you can tell PG to examine +> some tables more thouroughly to get better plans. + + You might EXPLAIN ANALYZE? + +>>>>effective_cache_size = 65536 + +>>>So you typically get about 256MB cache usage in top/free? + +>> No, top shows 12-20Mb. +>> I'm reduced effective_cache_size to 4K blocks (16M?). + +> Cache size is in blocks of 8KB (usually) - it's a way of telling PG what +> the chances are of disk blocks being already cached by Linux. + + PostgreSQL is running on FreeBSD, memory block actually is 4Kb, but in +most cases documentation says about 8Kb... I don't know exactly about +real disk block size, but suspect that it's 4Kb. :) + +>> I think this is a important remark. Can "JOIN" significantly reduce +>>performance of SELECT statement relative to ", WHERE"? +>> OK, I'm changed VIEW to this text: + +> It can sometimes. What it means is that PG will follow whatever order you +> write the joins in. If you know joining a to b to c is the best order, +> that can be a good thing. Unfortunately, it means the planner can't make a +> better guess based on its statistics. + + At this moment this don't helps. :( + +> Well the cost estimates look much more plausible. You couldn't post +> EXPLAIN ANALYSE could you? That actually runs the query. + +>> Now (2K shared_buffers blocks, 16K effective_cache_size blocks, 16Mb +>>sort_mem) PostgreSQL uses much less memory, about 64M... it's not good, +>>I want using all available RAM if possible - PostgreSQL is the main task +>>on this PC. + +> Don't forget that any memory PG is using the operating-system can't. The +> OS will cache frequently accessed disk blocks for you, so it's a question +> of finding the right balance. + + PostgreSQL is the primary task for me on this PC - I don't worry about +other tasks except OS. ;) + +>> May set effective_cache_size to 192M (48K blocks) be better? I don't +>>understand exactly: effective_cache_size tells PostgreSQL about OS cache +>>size or about available free RAM? + +> It needs to reflect how much cache the system is using - try the "free" +> command to see figures. + + I'm not found "free" utility on FreeBSD 4.7. :( + +> If you could post the output of EXPLAIN ANALYSE rather than EXPLAIN, I'll +> take a look at it this evening (London time). There's also plenty of other +> people on this list who can help too. + + I'm afraid that this may be too long. :-((( + Yesterday I'm re-execute my query with all changes... after 700 (!) +minutes query failed with: "ERROR: Memory exhausted in AllocSetAlloc(104)". + I don't understand: result is actually 8K rows long only, but +PostgreSQL failed! Why?!! Function showcalc is recursive, but in my +query used with level 1 depth only (I know exactly). + Again: I think that this is PostgreSQL's lack of quality memory +management. :-( + +> - Richard Huxton + +With best regards + Yaroslav Mazurak. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 04:36:02 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4375D1C4BD + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:35:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 43139-08 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 04:34:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC712D1C4CB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 04:35:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h777aVfM002434 + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:06:31 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h777aUqx002421; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:06:30 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, + Yaroslav Mazurak +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:07:36 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F324F18.6307.4A8BB7A@localhost> +In-reply-to: <3F31FA33.1050009@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +References: <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/126 +X-Sequence-Number: 2943 + +On 7 Aug 2003 at 10:05, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> > It needs to reflect how much cache the system is using - try the "free" +> > command to see figures. +> +> I'm not found "free" utility on FreeBSD 4.7. :( + + +Grr.. I don't like freeBSD for it's top output.Active/inactive/Wired.. Grr.. +why can't it be shared buffered and cached? Same goes for HP-UX top. Looking at +it one gets hardly any real information.. Anyway that's just me.. + + + Top on freeBSD seems pretty unintuituive em but if you find any documentation +on that, that would help you. ( Haven't booted in freeBSD in ages so no data +out of my head..) + +You can try various sysctls on freeBSD. Basicalyl idea is to find out how much +of memory is used and how much is cached. FreeBSD must be providing that one in +some form.. + +IIRC there is a limit on filesystem cache on freeBSD. 300MB by default. If that +is the case, you might have to raise it to make effective_cache_size really +effective.. + +HTH + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Another war ... must it always be so? How many comrades have we lostin this +way? ... Obedience. Duty. Death, and more death ... -- Romulan Commander, +"Balance of Terror", stardate 1709.2 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 04:42:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C65D1C4CB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:42:06 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 44128-10 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 04:40:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fw.wubn.net (unknown [213.156.64.226]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28FE9D1C4BD + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 04:41:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from (172.24.4.34) + by fw.wubn.net (8.12.9/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h777fTPt043742 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:41:34 +0300 (EEST) + (envelope-from yamazurak@Lviv.Bank.Gov.UA) +Received: from (172.24.4.57) by MTA (8.11.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h777fTf06858 + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:41:29 +0300 +Message-ID: <3F32029D.6080704@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:41:17 +0300 +From: Yaroslav Mazurak +Organization: National Bank of Ukraine Lviv OU +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <200308061030.36610.dev@archonet.com> + <3F30F7CF.6090900@lviv.bank.gov.ua> <1624.1060193807@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <1624.1060193807@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/127 +X-Sequence-Number: 2944 + + Hi All! + +Tom Lane wrote: + +> Yaroslav Mazurak writes: + +>>>>fsync = false + +>>>I'd turn fsync back on - unless you don't mind losing your data after a crash. + +>> This is temporary performance solution - I want get SELECT query result +>>first, but current performance is too low. + +> Disabling fsync will not help SELECT performance one bit. It would only +> affect transactions that modify the database. + + Fixed. But at this moment primary tasks are *get result* (1st) from +SELECT in *reasonable* time (2nd). :) + +> regards, tom lane + +With best regards + Yaroslav Mazurak. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 05:11:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC9AD1C4BF + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:11:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49743-04 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:09:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net + [194.217.242.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9F9D1C4EE + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:11:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mwynhau.demon.co.uk ([193.237.186.96] + helo=mainbox.archonet.com) + by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) + id 19kfrR-0003q4-0W; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 09:11:01 +0100 +Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 2465717C37; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:11:00 +0100 (BST) +Received: from client17.archonet.com (client17.archonet.com [192.168.1.17]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 67C5A16384; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:10:59 +0100 (BST) +From: Richard Huxton +To: Yaroslav Mazurak , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:10:58 +0100 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +References: <3F30AF9E.2080607@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> + <3F31FA33.1050009@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +In-Reply-To: <3F31FA33.1050009@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308070910.58624.dev@archonet.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/128 +X-Sequence-Number: 2945 + +On Thursday 07 August 2003 08:05, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> Hi All! +> +> Richard Huxton wrote: +> >>>On Wednesday 06 August 2003 08:34, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> >>>>sort_mem = 131072 +> >>> +> >>>This sort_mem value is *very* large - that's 131MB for *each sort* that +> +> It's not TOO large *for PostgreSQL*. When I'm inserting a large amount +> of data into tables, sort_mem helps. Value of 192M speeds up inserting +> significantly (verified :))! + +And what about every other operation? + +> >> What mean "each sort"? Each query with SORT clause or some internal +> >>(invisible to user) sorts too (I can't imagine: indexed search or +> >>whatever else)? +> >> +> >> I'm reduced sort_mem to 16M. +> > +> > It means each sort - if you look at your query plan and see three "sort" +> > clauses that means that query might allocate 48MB to sorting. Now, that's +> > good because sorting items on disk is much slower. It's bad because +> > that's 48MB less for everything else that's happening. +> +> OK, I'm preparing to fix this value. :) +> IMHO this is PostgreSQL's lack of memory management. I think that +> PostgreSQL can finally allocate enough memory by himself! :-E + +But this parameter controls how much memory can be allocated to sorts - I +don't see how PG can figure out a reasonable maximum by itself. + +> >> This is another strange behavior of PostgreSQL - he don't use some +> >>created indexes (seq_scan only) after ANALYZE too. OK, I'm turned on +> >>this option back. +> > +> > Fair enough, we can work on those. With 7.3.x you can tell PG to examine +> > some tables more thouroughly to get better plans. +> +> You might EXPLAIN ANALYZE? + +No - I meant altering the number of rows used to gather stats (ALTER +TABLE...SET STATISTICS) - this controls how many rows PG looks at when +deciding the "shape" of the data in the table. + +[snip] + +> > Don't forget that any memory PG is using the operating-system can't. The +> > OS will cache frequently accessed disk blocks for you, so it's a question +> > of finding the right balance. +> +> PostgreSQL is the primary task for me on this PC - I don't worry about +> other tasks except OS. ;) + +You still want the OS to cache your database files. If you try and allocate +too much memory to PG you will only hurt performance. + +> >> May set effective_cache_size to 192M (48K blocks) be better? I don't +> >>understand exactly: effective_cache_size tells PostgreSQL about OS cache +> >>size or about available free RAM? +> > +> > It needs to reflect how much cache the system is using - try the "free" +> > command to see figures. +> +> I'm not found "free" utility on FreeBSD 4.7. :( + +Sorry - I don't know what the equivalent is in FreeBSD. + +> > If you could post the output of EXPLAIN ANALYSE rather than EXPLAIN, I'll +> > take a look at it this evening (London time). There's also plenty of +> > other people on this list who can help too. +> +> I'm afraid that this may be too long. :-((( +> Yesterday I'm re-execute my query with all changes... after 700 (!) +> minutes query failed with: "ERROR: Memory exhausted in +> AllocSetAlloc(104)". I don't understand: result is actually 8K rows long +> only, but +> PostgreSQL failed! Why?!! Function showcalc is recursive, but in my +> query used with level 1 depth only (I know exactly). + +I must say I'm puzzled as to how this can happen. In fact, if the last EXPLAIN +output was accurate, it couldn't run out of memory, not with the settings +you've got now. + +> Again: I think that this is PostgreSQL's lack of quality memory +> management. :-( + +If it's allocating all that memory (do you see the memory usage going up in +top) then there's something funny going on now. + +Well sir, I can only think of two options now: + 1. simplify the query until it works and then build it back up again - that +should identify where the problem is. + 2. If you can put together a pg_dump with a small amount of sample data, I +can take a look at it here. + +-- + Richard Huxton + Archonet Ltd + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 05:23:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBECCD1C517 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:23:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 47188-09 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:22:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from zigo.dhs.org (as2-4-3.an.g.bonet.se [194.236.34.191]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DCDD1C4BC + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:23:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from zigo.dhs.org (zigo [127.0.0.1]) + by zigo.dhs.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h778N5WK026304; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:23:05 +0200 +Received: from localhost (db@localhost) + by zigo.dhs.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h778N4O8026300; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:23:05 +0200 +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:23:04 +0200 (CEST) +From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dennis_Bj=F6rklund?= +To: Richard Huxton +Cc: Yaroslav Mazurak , + +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +In-Reply-To: <200308070910.58624.dev@archonet.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/129 +X-Sequence-Number: 2946 + +On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Richard Huxton wrote: + +> But this parameter controls how much memory can be allocated to sorts - I +> don't see how PG can figure out a reasonable maximum by itself. + +One could have one setting for the total memory usage and pg could use +statistics or some heuristics to use the memory for different things in a +good way. + +Then that setting could have an auto setting so it uses 40% of all memory +or something like that. Not perfect but okay for most people. + +-- +/Dennis + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 05:25:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66603D1C4CA + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:24:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 51584-01 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:23:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fw.wubn.net (unknown [213.156.64.226]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A48D1C50B + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:24:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from (172.24.4.34) + by fw.wubn.net (8.12.9/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h778OTPt045602 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:24:34 +0300 (EEST) + (envelope-from yamazurak@Lviv.Bank.Gov.UA) +Received: from (172.24.4.57) by MTA (8.11.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h778OTf08176 + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:24:29 +0300 +Message-ID: <3F320CB1.7040000@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 11:24:17 +0300 +From: Yaroslav Mazurak +Organization: National Bank of Ukraine Lviv OU +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +References: <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> + <3F324F18.6307.4A8BB7A@localhost> +In-Reply-To: <3F324F18.6307.4A8BB7A@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/130 +X-Sequence-Number: 2947 + + Hi All! + +Shridhar Daithankar wrote: + +> On 7 Aug 2003 at 10:05, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +>>>It needs to reflect how much cache the system is using - try the "free" +>>>command to see figures. + +>> I'm not found "free" utility on FreeBSD 4.7. :( + +> +> Grr.. I don't like freeBSD for it's top output.Active/inactive/Wired.. Grr.. +> why can't it be shared buffered and cached? Same goes for HP-UX top. Looking at +> it one gets hardly any real information.. Anyway that's just me.. +> + + Grr... I don't like PostgreSQL for it's memory usage parameters. In +Sybase ASA, I say for example: "use 64Mb RAM for cache". I don't worry +about data in this cache - this may be queries, sort areas, results etc. +I think that server know better about it's memory requirements. I know +that Sybase *use*, and use *only this* memory and don't trap with +"Memory exhausted" error. + I'm not remember 700 minutes queries (more complex that my query), +following with "memory exhausted" error, on Sybase. + Advertising, he? :( + +> Top on freeBSD seems pretty unintuituive em but if you find any documentation +> on that, that would help you. (Haven't booted in freeBSD in ages so no data +> out of my head..) + +> You can try various sysctls on freeBSD. Basicalyl idea is to find out how much +> of memory is used and how much is cached. FreeBSD must be providing that one in +> some form.. + +> IIRC there is a limit on filesystem cache on freeBSD. 300MB by default. If that +> is the case, you might have to raise it to make effective_cache_size really +> effective.. + + "Try various sysctls" says nothing for me. I want use *all available +RAM* (of course, without needed for OS use) for PostgreSQL. + + While idle time top says: + +Mem: 14M Active, 1944K Inact, 28M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 331M Free +Swap: 368M Total, 17M Used, 352M Free, 4% Inuse + + After 1 minute of "EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT SUM(showcalc('B00204', dd, +r020, t071)) FROM v_file02wide WHERE a011 = 3 AND inrepdate(data) AND +b030 IN (SELECT b030 FROM dov_bank WHERE dov_bank_box_22(box) IN ('NL', +'NM')) AND r030 = 980;" executing: + +Mem: 64M Active, 17M Inact, 72M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 221M Free +Swap: 368M Total, 3192K Used, 365M Free + + PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND +59063 postgres 49 0 65560K 55492K RUN 1:06 94.93% 94.63% postgres + + After 12 minutes of query executing: + +Mem: 71M Active, 17M Inact, 72M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 214M Free +Swap: 368M Total, 3192K Used, 365M Free + + PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND +59063 postgres 56 0 73752K 62996K RUN 12:01 99.02% 99.02% postgres + + I suspect that swap-file size is too small for my query... but query +isn't too large, about 8K rows only. :-| + +> Shridhar + +With best regards + Yaroslav Mazurak. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 05:27:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB18D1C4BF + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:26:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 47962-09 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:25:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE2ED1C7EB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:26:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h778RWVY016490 + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:57:32 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h778RW7f016475 + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:57:32 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:58:37 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Simple filesystem benchmark on Linux 2.6 +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F325B0D.25941.4D77005@localhost> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/131 +X-Sequence-Number: 2948 + +http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/715 + +Might be interesting for people running 2.6. Last I heard, the anticipatory +scheduler did not yield it's maximum throughput for random reads. So they said +database guys would not want it right away. + +Anybody using it for testing? Couple of guys are running it here in my company +on a moderate desktop-cum-server. So far it's good.. In fact far better.. + + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Wedding, n: A ceremony at which two persons undertake to become one, one +undertakes to become nothing and nothing undertakes to become supportable. -- +Ambrose Bierce + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 04:52:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C1BD1C91E + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:51:18 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49236-01 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 04:49:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mxout3.netvision.net.il (mxout3.netvision.net.il [194.90.9.24]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0365CD1C914 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 04:51:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mikislap ([217.132.27.49]) by mxout3.netvision.net.il + (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) + with SMTP id <0HJ80092TOH62P@mxout3.netvision.net.il> for + pgsql-general@postgresql.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:51:07 +0300 (IDT) +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:51:03 +0200 +From: Ben-Nes Michael +Subject: Re: PostgreSql under Linux +To: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." , + postgresql +Message-id: <003201c35cc1$09798bf0$0400000a@mikislap> +MIME-version: 1.0 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +Content-type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="Boundary_(ID_N3aY3V49E4O82SHd/NmIYA)" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-priority: Normal +References: <01dd01c35c45$141a42b0$70c0b4c8@notebook> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/332 +X-Sequence-Number: 46749 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +--Boundary_(ID_N3aY3V49E4O82SHd/NmIYA) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT + +I say go for GENTOO :) + +You can compile all the system exactly for your mechine / cpu. +-------------------------- +Canaan Surfing Ltd. +Internet Service Providers +Ben-Nes Michael - Manager +Tel: 972-4-6991122 +Fax: 972-4-6990098 +http://www.canaan.net.il +-------------------------- + + ----- Original Message ----- + From: Wilson A. Galafassi Jr. + To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@svr1.postgresql.org + Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:03 PM + Subject: [GENERAL] PostgreSql under Linux + + + Hello people. + + I'm installing Postgresql under linux for better performance and i want to know how is the best configuration. + + My server is a dual pentium3 1ghz/1gb ram/36gb scsi. running only postgresql. My question is: + 1. What is the best linux distribuition for better performance? + 2. Does exists any compilation options to better performance on this machine? + + Thanks + + Wilson Galafassi + +--Boundary_(ID_N3aY3V49E4O82SHd/NmIYA) +Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT + + + + + + + + +
I say go for GENTOO :)
+
 
+
You can compile all the system exactly for your +mechine / cpu.
+
--------------------------
Canaan Surfing Ltd.
Internet Service +Providers
Ben-Nes Michael - Manager
Tel: 972-4-6991122
Fax: +972-4-6990098
http://www.canaan.net.il
--------------------------
+
+
----- Original Message -----
+ + +
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:03 + PM
+
Subject: [GENERAL] PostgreSql under + Linux
+

+
Hello people.
+
 
+
I'm installing Postgresql under linux for better + performance and i want to know how is the best configuration.
+
 
+
My server is a dual pentium3 1ghz/1gb ram/36gb + scsi. running only postgresql. My question is:
+
1. What is the best linux distribuition for + better performance?
+
2. Does exists any compilation options to better + performance on this machine?
+
 
+
Thanks
+
 
+
Wilson +Galafassi
+ +--Boundary_(ID_N3aY3V49E4O82SHd/NmIYA)-- + +From pgsql-sql-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 12:08:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-sql-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71DA9D1C4E1 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:30:18 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 50508-09 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 06:28:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svana.org (svana.org [203.20.62.76]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BFAFD1C4BD + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 06:30:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from kleptog by svana.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) + id 19kh5z-00054d-00; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:30:07 +1000 +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 19:30:07 +1000 +From: Martijn van Oosterhout +To: "Wilson A. Galafassi Jr." +Cc: pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Postgresql slow on XEON 2.4ghz/1gb ram +Message-ID: <20030807093006.GA19280@svana.org> +Reply-To: Martijn van Oosterhout +References: <009d01c35c21$ba3a1270$70c0b4c8@notebook> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <009d01c35c21$ba3a1270$70c0b4c8@notebook> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i +X-PGP-Key-ID: Length=1024; ID=0x0DC67BE6 +X-PGP-Key-Fingerprint: 295F A899 A81A 156D B522 48A7 6394 F08A 0DC6 7BE6 +X-PGP-Key-URL: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/64 +X-Sequence-Number: 14680 + +--EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 10:50:38AM -0300, Wilson A. Galafassi Jr. wrote: +> Hello. + +> I have this problem: i'm running the postgre 7.3 on a windows 2000 server +> with P3 1GHZ DUAL/1gb ram with good performance. For best performance i +> have change the server for a XEON 2.4/1gb ram and for my suprise the +> performance decrease 80%. anybody have a similar experience? does exist +> any special configuration to postgre running on a Xeon processor? Any have +> any idea to help-me? Excuse-me my bad english. + +I assume you've done the vacuums, analyze, configured the wal and shmem +option appropriate for that size machine. + +But in any case, without specific examples about what you're seeing we can't +help you. + +--=20 +Martijn van Oosterhout http://svana.org/kleptog/ +> "All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good +> men to do nothing." - Edmond Burke +> "The penalty good people pay for not being interested in politics is to be +> governed by people worse than themselves." - Plato + +--EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature +Content-Disposition: inline + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) +Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org + +iD8DBQE/MhweY5Twig3Ge+YRAgW0AJ0W2btR+4tPSCwn/S7ShvUUkPKkdQCdHuxY +xi5GBlEAGk8Sji9hPb8/dcc= +=GA98 +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 11:50:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41D4D1C4BC + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 14:44:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 88026-03 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:43:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from email04.aon.at (WARSL402PIP5.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 314D7D1C48E + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:44:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 246698 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2003 14:44:22 -0000 +Received: from m154p026.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO cantor) ([62.46.9.58]) + (envelope-sender ) + by qmail4rs.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 7 Aug 2003 14:44:22 -0000 +From: Manfred Koizar +To: Sean Chittenden +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Moving postgresql.conf tunables into 2003... +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 16:44:41 +0200 +Message-ID: +References: <20030703190502.GR72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <2422.1057264735@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030704000646.GV72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <4nfiiv850cu7vkp39tv7mk2b3pniim8ccu@4ax.com> + <20030805222609.GF94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030805222609.GF94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> +X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/132 +X-Sequence-Number: 2949 + +On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:26:09 -0700, Sean Chittenden + wrote: +>> I have an experimental patch lying around somewhere that tries to +>> work around these problems by offering different estimation methods +>> for index scans. If you are interested, I'll dig it out. +> +>Sure, I'll take a gander... had my head in enough Knuth recently to +>even hopefully have some kind of a useful response to the patch. + +Sean, the patch is at http://www.pivot.at/pg/16-correlation-732.diff. +A short description of its usage can be found at +http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-performance/2002-11/msg00256.php. +If you are interested how the different interpolation methods work, +read the source - it shouldn't be too hard to find. + +You might also want to read the thread starting at +http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2002-10/msg00072.php. + +>> does this mean that sensorid, evtime, and action are not +>> independent? +> +>Hrm... sensorid is sequence and grows proportional with evtime, +>obviously. + +So a *low* sensorid (7) is quite uncommon for a *late* evtime? This +would help understand the problem. Unfortunately I have no clue what +to do about it. :-( + +>Having spent a fair amount of time looking at the two following plans, +>it seems as though an additional statistic is needed to change the +>cost of doing an index lookup when the index is linearly ordered. + +I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "index is linearly +ordered", but I guess correlation is that statistic you are talking +about. However, it is calculated per column, not per index. + +>Whether CLUSTER does this or not, I don't know, + +If you CLUSTER on an index and then ANALYSE, you get a correlation of +1.0 (== optimum) for the first column of the index. + +> I never heard back +>from him after getting the runtime down to a few ms. :-/ + +Pity! I'd have liked to see EXPLAIN ANALYSE for + + SELECT * + FROM mss_fwevent + WHERE sensorid = 7 + AND evtime > (now() - '6 hours'::INTERVAL) + AND NOT action; + + SELECT * + FROM mss_fwevent + WHERE sensorid = 7 + AND evtime > (now() - '6 hours'::INTERVAL); + + SELECT * + FROM mss_fwevent + WHERE evtime > (now() - '6 hours'::INTERVAL); + + SELECT * + FROM mss_fwevent + WHERE sensorid = 7; + + +> Are indexes +>on linearly ordered data rebalanced somehow? I thought CLUSTER only +>reordered data on disk. -sc + +AFAIK CLUSTER re-creates all indices belonging to the table. + +Servus + Manfred + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 11:53:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112F1D1C4EB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 14:53:00 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 87910-07 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:51:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net + [194.217.242.80]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0862ED1C4E1 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:52:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mwynhau.demon.co.uk ([193.237.186.96] + helo=mainbox.archonet.com) + by anchor-post-39.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) + id 19km8J-0006uf-0U; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 15:52:52 +0100 +Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 93B1916C74; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:52:50 +0100 (BST) +Received: from client17.archonet.com (client17.archonet.com [192.168.1.17]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id B105B166BC; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:52:49 +0100 (BST) +From: Richard Huxton +To: Yaroslav Mazurak , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:52:48 +0100 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +References: <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> + <3F324F18.6307.4A8BB7A@localhost> + <3F320CB1.7040000@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +In-Reply-To: <3F320CB1.7040000@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308071552.48868.dev@archonet.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/133 +X-Sequence-Number: 2950 + +On Thursday 07 August 2003 09:24, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> > IIRC there is a limit on filesystem cache on freeBSD. 300MB by default. +> > If that is the case, you might have to raise it to make +> > effective_cache_size really effective.. +> +> "Try various sysctls" says nothing for me. I want use *all available +> RAM* (of course, without needed for OS use) for PostgreSQL. + +PG will be using the OS' disk caching. + +> While idle time top says: +> +> Mem: 14M Active, 1944K Inact, 28M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 331M Free +> Swap: 368M Total, 17M Used, 352M Free, 4% Inuse +> +> After 1 minute of "EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT SUM(showcalc('B00204', dd, +> r020, t071)) FROM v_file02wide WHERE a011 = 3 AND inrepdate(data) AND +> b030 IN (SELECT b030 FROM dov_bank WHERE dov_bank_box_22(box) IN ('NL', +> 'NM')) AND r030 = 980;" executing: +> +> Mem: 64M Active, 17M Inact, 72M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 221M Free +> Swap: 368M Total, 3192K Used, 365M Free +> +> PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU +> COMMAND 59063 postgres 49 0 65560K 55492K RUN 1:06 94.93% 94.63% +> postgres +> +> After 12 minutes of query executing: +> +> Mem: 71M Active, 17M Inact, 72M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 214M Free +> Swap: 368M Total, 3192K Used, 365M Free +> +> PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU +> COMMAND 59063 postgres 56 0 73752K 62996K RUN 12:01 99.02% 99.02% +> postgres +> +> I suspect that swap-file size is too small for my query... but query +> isn't too large, about 8K rows only. :-| + +Looks fine - PG isn't growing too large and your swap usage seems steady. We +can try upping the sort memory later, but given the amount of data you're +dealing with I'd guess 64MB should be fine. + +I think we're going to have to break the query down a little and see where the +issue is. + +What's the situation with: +EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT FROM v_file02wide WHERE a011 = 3 AND +inrepdate(data) AND b030 IN (SELECT b030 FROM dov_bank WHERE +dov_bank_box_22(box) IN ('NL', 'NM')) AND r030 = 980; + +and: +EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT SUM(showcalc()) FROM + +Hopefully one of these will run in a reasonable time, and the other will not. +Then we can examine the slow query in more detail. Nothing from your previous +EXPLAIN (email of yesterday 13:42) looks unreasonable but something must be +going wild in the heart of the query, otherwise you wouldn't be here. + +-- + Richard Huxton + Archonet Ltd + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 12:05:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A24D1C4DB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:04:56 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 88335-09 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 12:03:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mercury.elitra.com (unknown [12.35.196.84]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED36D1C4EC + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 12:04:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from moebius.elitra.com ([192.168.201.111]) by mercury.elitra.com + with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:10:56 -0700 +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:04:40 -0400 (EDT) +From: Sebastien Lemieux +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Postgresql-performance +Subject: Re: How to efficiently duplicate a whole schema? +In-Reply-To: <9140.1060206456@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/134 +X-Sequence-Number: 2951 + + +> >> The idea here is to make sure that the planner's statistics reflect the +> >> "full" state of the table, not the "empty" state. Otherwise it may pick +> >> plans for the foreign key checks that are optimized for small tables. +> +> > I added the 'analyze' but without any noticable gain in speed. I can't +> > use 'truncate' since I need to 'set constraints all deferred'. +> +> What are you using, exactly? + +What I want to do: + + let t be the list of tables + + for t in tables: + delete from db_dev.t; + + for t in tables: + insert into db_dev.t (...) select ... from db.t; + +Some of my foreign keys are creating references loops in my schema, thus +there is no correct order to do the deletes and inserts so that the +constraints are satisfied at all time. I have to enclose those two loops +in a 'set constraints all deferred' to avoid complaints from the +constraints. + +I tried dropping the indexes first, doing the transfer and recreating the +indexes: no gain. So computing the indexes doesn't take significant time. + +I then tried removing all the foreign keys constraints, replacing delete +by truncate and it now runs in about 25 seconds. Downside is that I lose +the foreign keys integrity verification, but because of this reference +loop in my schema it has caused me more problem than it has avoided until +now. So I can live with that! + +Thanks all! + +-- +Sebastien Lemieux +Bioinformatics, post-doc +Elitra-canada + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 13:41:12 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B8AD1C4BC + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:29:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 99386-02 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:28:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27171D1C4EB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:29:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h77GT1bS007841; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:29:01 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:15:20 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Yaroslav Mazurak +Cc: +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +In-Reply-To: <3F31FA33.1050009@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/137 +X-Sequence-Number: 2954 + +On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +> Hi All! +> +> +> Richard Huxton wrote: +> +> >>>On Wednesday 06 August 2003 08:34, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> +> >>>>sort_mem = 131072 +> +> >>>This sort_mem value is *very* large - that's 131MB for *each sort* that +> +> It's not TOO large *for PostgreSQL*. When I'm inserting a large amount +> of data into tables, sort_mem helps. Value of 192M speeds up inserting +> significantly (verified :))! + +If I remember right, this is on a PII-400 with 384 Megs of RAM. On a +machine that small, 128Meg is probably too big for ensuring there are no +swap storms. Once you force the box to swap you loose. + +> >>>>effective_cache_size = 65536 +> +> >>>So you typically get about 256MB cache usage in top/free? +> +> >> No, top shows 12-20Mb. +> >> I'm reduced effective_cache_size to 4K blocks (16M?). +> +> > Cache size is in blocks of 8KB (usually) - it's a way of telling PG what +> > the chances are of disk blocks being already cached by Linux. +> +> PostgreSQL is running on FreeBSD, memory block actually is 4Kb, but in +> most cases documentation says about 8Kb... I don't know exactly about +> real disk block size, but suspect that it's 4Kb. :) + +FYI effective cache size and shared_buffers are both measured in +Postgresql sized blocks, which default to 8k but can be changed upon +compile. So, effective_cache size for a machine that shows 128 Meg kernel +cache and 20 meg buffers would be (138*2^20)/(8*2^10) -> (138*2^10)/8 -> +17664. + +> I'm afraid that this may be too long. :-((( +> Yesterday I'm re-execute my query with all changes... after 700 (!) +> minutes query failed with: "ERROR: Memory exhausted in AllocSetAlloc(104)". +> I don't understand: result is actually 8K rows long only, but +> PostgreSQL failed! Why?!! Function showcalc is recursive, but in my +> query used with level 1 depth only (I know exactly). +> Again: I think that this is PostgreSQL's lack of quality memory +> management. :-( + +Can you run top while this is happening and see postgresql's memory usage +climb or df the disks to see if they're filling up? could be swap is +filling even. How much swap space do you have allocated, by the way? + +Also, you have to restart postgresql to get the changes to postgresql.conf +to take effect. Just in case you haven't. Do a show all; in psql to see +if the settings are what they should be. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 13:35:05 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FC7D1C4DB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:35:03 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 95684-08 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:33:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF71D1C48E + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:34:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h77GY7bS008241; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:34:07 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 10:20:26 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Yaroslav Mazurak +Cc: +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +In-Reply-To: <3F320CB1.7040000@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/135 +X-Sequence-Number: 2952 + +On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +> Hi All! +> +> Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> +> > On 7 Aug 2003 at 10:05, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> +> >>>It needs to reflect how much cache the system is using - try the "free" +> >>>command to see figures. +> +> >> I'm not found "free" utility on FreeBSD 4.7. :( +> +> > +> > Grr.. I don't like freeBSD for it's top output.Active/inactive/Wired.. Grr.. +> > why can't it be shared buffered and cached? Same goes for HP-UX top. Looking at +> > it one gets hardly any real information.. Anyway that's just me.. +> > +> +> Grr... I don't like PostgreSQL for it's memory usage parameters. In +> Sybase ASA, I say for example: "use 64Mb RAM for cache". I don't worry +> about data in this cache - this may be queries, sort areas, results etc. +> I think that server know better about it's memory requirements. I know +> that Sybase *use*, and use *only this* memory and don't trap with +> "Memory exhausted" error. +> I'm not remember 700 minutes queries (more complex that my query), +> following with "memory exhausted" error, on Sybase. +> Advertising, he? :( +> +> > Top on freeBSD seems pretty unintuituive em but if you find any documentation +> > on that, that would help you. (Haven't booted in freeBSD in ages so no data +> > out of my head..) +> +> > You can try various sysctls on freeBSD. Basicalyl idea is to find out how much +> > of memory is used and how much is cached. FreeBSD must be providing that one in +> > some form.. +> +> > IIRC there is a limit on filesystem cache on freeBSD. 300MB by default. If that +> > is the case, you might have to raise it to make effective_cache_size really +> > effective.. +> +> "Try various sysctls" says nothing for me. I want use *all available +> RAM* (of course, without needed for OS use) for PostgreSQL. + +That's a nice theory, but it doesn't work out that way. About every two +months someone shows up wanting postgresql to use all the memory in their +box for caching and we wind up explaining that the kernel is better at +caching than postgresql is, and how it's better not to push the usage of +the memory right up to the limit. + +The reason you don't want to use every bit for postgresql is that, if you +use add load after that you may make the machine start to swap out and +slow down considerably. + +My guess is that this is exactly what's happening to you, you're using so +much memory that the machine is running out and slowing down. + +Drop shared_buffers to 1000 to 4000, sort_mem to 8192 and start over from +there. Then, increase them each one at a time until there's no increase +in speed, or stop if it starts getting slower and back off. + +bigger is NOT always better. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 13:37:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548C0D1C4EE + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:31:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 96580-04 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:29:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fw.wubn.net (unknown [213.156.64.226]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E422D1C4DB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:31:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from (172.24.4.34) + by fw.wubn.net (8.12.9/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h77GV1Pt065773 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 19:31:03 +0300 (EEST) + (envelope-from yamazurak@Lviv.Bank.Gov.UA) +Received: from (172.24.4.57) by MTA (8.11.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h77GV1f18261 + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 19:31:01 +0300 +Message-ID: <3F327EB9.5020707@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:30:49 +0300 +From: Yaroslav Mazurak +Organization: National Bank of Ukraine Lviv OU +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +References: <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> + <3F324F18.6307.4A8BB7A@localhost> + <3F320CB1.7040000@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <200308071552.48868.dev@archonet.com> +In-Reply-To: <200308071552.48868.dev@archonet.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/136 +X-Sequence-Number: 2953 + + Hi All! + + + First, thanks for answers! + +Richard Huxton wrote: + +> On Thursday 07 August 2003 09:24, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +>>>IIRC there is a limit on filesystem cache on freeBSD. 300MB by default. +>>>If that is the case, you might have to raise it to make +>>>effective_cache_size really effective.. + +>> "Try various sysctls" says nothing for me. I want use *all available +>>RAM* (of course, without needed for OS use) for PostgreSQL. + +> PG will be using the OS' disk caching. + + I think all applications using OS disk caching. ;) + Or you want to say that PostgreSQL tuned for using OS-specific cache +implementation? + Do you know method for examining real size of OS filesystem cache? If I +understood right, PostgreSQL dynamically use all available RAM minus +shared_buffers minus k * sort_mem minus effective_cache_size? + I want configure PostgreSQL for using _maximum_ of available RAM. + +> Looks fine - PG isn't growing too large and your swap usage seems steady. We +> can try upping the sort memory later, but given the amount of data you're +> dealing with I'd guess 64MB should be fine. + +> I think we're going to have to break the query down a little and see where the +> issue is. + +> What's the situation with: +> EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT FROM v_file02wide WHERE a011 = 3 AND +> inrepdate(data) AND b030 IN (SELECT b030 FROM dov_bank WHERE +> dov_bank_box_22(box) IN ('NL', 'NM')) AND r030 = 980; + +> and: +> EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT SUM(showcalc()) FROM + +> Hopefully one of these will run in a reasonable time, and the other will not. +> Then we can examine the slow query in more detail. Nothing from your previous +> EXPLAIN (email of yesterday 13:42) looks unreasonable but something must be +> going wild in the heart of the query, otherwise you wouldn't be here. + + Yes, you're right. I've tested a few statements and obtain interesting +results. + SELECT * FROM v_file02wide WHERE... executes about 34 seconds. + SELECT showcalc(...); executes from 0.7 seconds (without recursion) up +to 6.3 seconds if recursion is used! :( + This mean, that approximate execute time for fully qualified SELECT +with about 8K rows is... about 13 hours! :-O + Hence, problem is in my function showcalc: + +CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION showcalc(VARCHAR(10), VARCHAR(2), VARCHAR(4), +NUMERIC(16)) RETURNS NUMERIC(16) +LANGUAGE SQL STABLE AS ' +-- Parameters: code, dd, r020, t071 + SELECT COALESCE( + (SELECT sc.koef * $4 + FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc + WHERE s.kod = $1 + AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = ''['' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) = $3 + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) = SUBSTR($2, 1, 1)), + (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), $2, $3, $4), 0)) + FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc + WHERE s.kod = $1 + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = ''[''), + 0) AS showing; +'; + + BTW, cross join "," with WHERE clause don't improve performance +relative to NATURAL JOIN. + Additionally, with user-defined function beginchar (SUBSTR(..., 1, 1)), +used for indexing, showcalc executes about 16 seconds. With function +SUBSTR the same showcalc executes 6 seconds. + + Table showing contain information about showing: showing id (id_show), +code (kod) and description (opys). Table showcomp contain information +about showing components (accounts): showing id (id_show), coefficient +(koef) and account_mask (acc_mask). Account mask is 4-char balance +account mask || 1-char account characteristics or another showing in +square bracket. + Example: + showing + =========+==========+=========== + id_show | kod | opys + =========+==========+=========== + 1 | 'A00101' | 'Received' + 2 | 'A00102' | 'Sent' + 3 | 'A00103' | 'Total' + =========+==========+=========== + showcomp + =========+======+=========== + id_show | koef | acc_mask + =========+======+=========== + 1 | 1.0 | '60102' + 1 | 1.0 | '60112' + 2 | 1.0 | '70011' + 2 | 1.0 | '70021' + 3 | 1.0 | '[A00101]' + 3 | -1.0 | '[A00102]' + =========+======+=========== + This mean that: A00101 includes accounts 6010 and 6011 with +characteristics 2, A00102 includes accounts 7001 and 7002 with +characteristics 1, and A00103 = A00102 - A00101. In almost all cases +recursion depth not exceed 1 level, but I'm not sure. :) + + View v_file02wide contain account (r020) and 2-char characteristics +(dd). Using showcalc I want to sum numbers (t071) on accounts included +in appropriate showings. I.e SELECT SUM(showcalc('A00101', dd, r020, +t071)) FROM ... must return sum on accounts 6010 and 6011 with +characteristics 2 etc. + + Now I think about change function showcalc or/and this data +structures... :) + Anyway, 600Mb is too low for PostgreSQL for executing my query - DBMS +raise error after 11.5 hours (of estimated 13?). :( + + +With best regards + Yaroslav Mazurak. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 14:04:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7919ED1C4E3 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 17:04:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01955-01 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 14:03:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fw.wubn.net (unknown [213.156.64.226]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7126D1C4EB + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 14:04:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from (172.24.4.34) + by fw.wubn.net (8.12.9/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h77H4GPt067030 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:04:20 +0300 (EEST) + (envelope-from yamazurak@Lviv.Bank.Gov.UA) +Received: from (172.24.4.57) by MTA (8.11.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h77H4Ff18920 + for ; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:04:15 +0300 +Message-ID: <3F328683.7050008@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 20:04:03 +0300 +From: Yaroslav Mazurak +Organization: National Bank of Ukraine Lviv OU +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +References: +In-Reply-To: +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/138 +X-Sequence-Number: 2955 + +scott.marlowe wrote: + +> On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +>>Shridhar Daithankar wrote: + +> That's a nice theory, but it doesn't work out that way. About every two +> months someone shows up wanting postgresql to use all the memory in their +> box for caching and we wind up explaining that the kernel is better at +> caching than postgresql is, and how it's better not to push the usage of +> the memory right up to the limit. + + I'm reading this mailing list just few days. :))) + +> The reason you don't want to use every bit for postgresql is that, if you +> use add load after that you may make the machine start to swap out and +> slow down considerably. + + What kind of load? PostgreSQL or another? I say that for this PC +primary task and critical goal is DBMS and it's performance. + +> My guess is that this is exactly what's happening to you, you're using so +> much memory that the machine is running out and slowing down. + +> Drop shared_buffers to 1000 to 4000, sort_mem to 8192 and start over from +> there. Then, increase them each one at a time until there's no increase +> in speed, or stop if it starts getting slower and back off. + +> bigger is NOT always better. + + Let I want to use all available RAM with PostgreSQL. + Without executing query (PostgreSQL is running) top say now: + +Mem: 71M Active, 23M Inact, 72M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 208M Free +Swap: 368M Total, 2852K Used, 366M Free + + It's right that I can figure that I can use 384M (total RAM) - 72M +(wired) - 48M (buf) = 264M for PostgreSQL. + Hence, if I set effective_cache_size to 24M (3072 8K blocks), +reasonable value (less than 240M, say 48M) for sort_mem, some value for +shared_buffers (i.e. 24M, or 6144 4K blocks (FreeBSD), or 3072 8K blocks +(PostgreSQL)), and rest of RAM 264M (total free with OS cache) - 24M +(reserved for OS cache) - 48M (sort) - 24M (shared) = 168M PostgreSQL +allocate dynamically by himself? + + +With best regards + Yaroslav Mazurak. + + +From pgadmin-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 15:47:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgadmin-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 5A5C7D1C914; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:12:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 11026-06; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:11:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (news.hub.org [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 6B67BD1C50B; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:12:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (news.hub.org [64.117.224.194]) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h77ICI1u039492; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:12:19 GMT (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h77Hninm030372; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 17:49:44 GMT +From: "Marc G. Fournier" +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.general +Subject: Testing gateway +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 17:49:43 +0000 (UTC) +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 3 +Message-ID: +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: tin/1.6.0-20030714 ("Vatersay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.8-STABLE (i386)) +To: + "pgadmin-devteam@postgresql.org.pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org.pgadmin-support@postgresql.org.pgsql-admin@postgresql.org.pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org.pgsql-announce@postgresql.org.pgsql-benchmarks@postgresql.org.pgsql-bugs@postgresql.org.pgsql-chat"@ +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=USER_AGENT +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/87 +X-Sequence-Number: 2355 + + +In theory, the news2mail gateway is back in place ... + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 15:06:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC48D1C4BC + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:06:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 11031-05 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:04:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 70043D1C488 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:06:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 25808 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2003 18:06:09 -0000 +Received: from dsl-217-155-239-50.zen.co.uk (217.155.239.50) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2003 18:06:09 -0000 +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +From: matt +To: Yaroslav Mazurak +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <3F328683.7050008@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +References: + <3F328683.7050008@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: +Message-Id: <1060279564.23083.164.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) +Date: 07 Aug 2003 19:06:05 +0100 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/139 +X-Sequence-Number: 2956 + + +> Mem: 71M Active, 23M Inact, 72M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 208M Free +> Swap: 368M Total, 2852K Used, 366M Free +> +> It's right that I can figure that I can use 384M (total RAM) - 72M +> (wired) - 48M (buf) = 264M for PostgreSQL. +> Hence, if I set effective_cache_size to 24M (3072 8K blocks), +> reasonable value (less than 240M, say 48M) for sort_mem, some value for +> shared_buffers (i.e. 24M, or 6144 4K blocks (FreeBSD), or 3072 8K blocks +> (PostgreSQL)), and rest of RAM 264M (total free with OS cache) - 24M +> (reserved for OS cache) - 48M (sort) - 24M (shared) = 168M PostgreSQL +> allocate dynamically by himself? + +Totally, utterly the wrong way around. + +Start with 384M, subtract whatever is in use by other processes, +excepting kernel disk cache, subtract your PG shared buffers, subtract +(PG proc size + PG sort mem)*(max number of PG processes you need to run +- should be same as max_connections if thinking conservatively), leave +some spare room so you can ssh in without swapping, and *the remainder* +is what you should set effective_cache_size to. This is all in the +docs. + +The key thing is: set effective_cache_size *last*. Note that Postgres +assumes your OS is effective at caching disk blocks, so if that +assumption is wrong you lose performance. + +Also, why on _earth_ would you need 48MB for sort memory? Are you +seriously going to run a query that returns 48M of data and then sort +it, on a machine with 384M of RAM? + +M + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 16:16:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5FC4D1C4E0 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 19:06:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 20865-01 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:05:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6261FD1C48E + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:06:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h77J5pbS020929; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:05:51 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 12:52:09 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Yaroslav Mazurak +Cc: +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +In-Reply-To: <3F328683.7050008@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/143 +X-Sequence-Number: 2960 + +On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +> scott.marlowe wrote: +> +> > On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> +> >>Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> +> > That's a nice theory, but it doesn't work out that way. About every two +> > months someone shows up wanting postgresql to use all the memory in their +> > box for caching and we wind up explaining that the kernel is better at +> > caching than postgresql is, and how it's better not to push the usage of +> > the memory right up to the limit. +> +> I'm reading this mailing list just few days. :))) + +We all get started somewhere. Glad to have you on the list. + +> > The reason you don't want to use every bit for postgresql is that, if you +> > use add load after that you may make the machine start to swap out and +> > slow down considerably. +> +> What kind of load? PostgreSQL or another? I say that for this PC +> primary task and critical goal is DBMS and it's performance. + +Just Postgresql. Imagine that you set up the machine with 64 Meg sort_mem +setting, and it has only two or three users right now. If the number of +users jumps up to 16 or 32, then it's quite possible that all those +connections can each spawn a sort or two, and if they are large sorts, +then poof, all your memory is gone and your box is swapping out like mad. + +> > My guess is that this is exactly what's happening to you, you're using so +> > much memory that the machine is running out and slowing down. +> +> > Drop shared_buffers to 1000 to 4000, sort_mem to 8192 and start over from +> > there. Then, increase them each one at a time until there's no increase +> > in speed, or stop if it starts getting slower and back off. +> +> > bigger is NOT always better. +> +> Let I want to use all available RAM with PostgreSQL. +> Without executing query (PostgreSQL is running) top say now: +> +> Mem: 71M Active, 23M Inact, 72M Wired, 436K Cache, 48M Buf, 208M Free +> Swap: 368M Total, 2852K Used, 366M Free +> +> It's right that I can figure that I can use 384M (total RAM) - 72M +> (wired) - 48M (buf) = 264M for PostgreSQL. +> Hence, if I set effective_cache_size to 24M (3072 8K blocks), +> reasonable value (less than 240M, say 48M) for sort_mem, some value for +> shared_buffers (i.e. 24M, or 6144 4K blocks (FreeBSD), or 3072 8K blocks +> (PostgreSQL)), and rest of RAM 264M (total free with OS cache) - 24M +> (reserved for OS cache) - 48M (sort) - 24M (shared) = 168M PostgreSQL +> allocate dynamically by himself? + +It's important to understand that effective_cache_size is simply a number +that tells the query planner about how big the kernel cache is for +postgresql. + +Note that in your top output, it shows 48 M buffer, and 208M free, and +436k cache. Adding those up comes to about 256 Megs of available cache to +the OS. + +But that's assuming postgresql isn't gonna use some of that for sorts or +buffers, so assuming some of the memory will get used for that, then it's +likely that effective_cache_size will really be about 100 to 150 Meg. + +Like someone else said, you set effective cache size last. First set +buffers to a few thousand (1000 to 5000 is usually a good number) and set +sort_mem to 8 to 32 meg to start, and adjust it as you test the database +under parallel load. Then, take the numbers you get for free/buffer/cache +from top to figure out effective_cache_size. + +Again, I'll repeat what I said in an earlier post on this, the size of +buffers and effective_cache_size are set in POSTGRESQL blocks. i.e. your +kernel page block size is meaningless here. If you have 100 Meg left +over, then you need to do the math as: + +100*2^20 +--------- +8*2^10 + +becomes + +100*2^10 +--------- +8 + +becomes + +12800 (8k blocks.) + +Reading your other response I got the feeling you may have been under the +impression that this is set in OS blocks, so I just wanted to make sure it +was clear it's not. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 16:13:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A57D1C4CA + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:59:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 19075-05 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:58:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A092CD1C488 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:59:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030807185916.CFTY23518.lakemtao03.cox.net@[192.168.1.1]> + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 14:59:16 -0400 +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <3F328683.7050008@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +References: + <3F328683.7050008@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1060282754.12221.50.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 07 Aug 2003 13:59:14 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/142 +X-Sequence-Number: 2959 + +On Thu, 2003-08-07 at 12:04, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> scott.marlowe wrote: +> +> > On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> +> >>Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> +[snip] +> > My guess is that this is exactly what's happening to you, you're using so +> > much memory that the machine is running out and slowing down. +> +> > Drop shared_buffers to 1000 to 4000, sort_mem to 8192 and start over from +> > there. Then, increase them each one at a time until there's no increase +> > in speed, or stop if it starts getting slower and back off. +> +> > bigger is NOT always better. +> +> Let I want to use all available RAM with PostgreSQL. +> Without executing query (PostgreSQL is running) top say now: + +You're missing the point. PostgreSQL is not designed like Oracle, +Sybase, etc. + +They say, "Give me all the RAM; I will cache everything myself." + +PostgreSQL says "The kernel programmers have worked very hard on +disk caching. Why should I duplicate their efforts?" + +Thus, give PG only a "little" RAM, and let the OS' disk cache hold +the rest. + +-- ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "Man, I'm pretty. Hoo Hah!" | +| Johnny Bravo | ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 16:12:19 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8668ED1C4B7 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 19:07:04 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 19853-02 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:05:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net + [194.217.242.90]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12292D1C4E1 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:06:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mwynhau.demon.co.uk ([193.237.186.96] + helo=mainbox.archonet.com) + by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) + id 19kq68-000JFn-0W; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 20:06:52 +0100 +Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 681EB161EB; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:06:51 +0100 (BST) +Received: from client17.archonet.com (client17.archonet.com [192.168.1.17]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id C45CD15917; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:06:50 +0100 (BST) +From: Richard Huxton +To: Yaroslav Mazurak , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:06:34 +0100 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +References: <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> + <200308071552.48868.dev@archonet.com> + <3F327EB9.5020707@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +In-Reply-To: <3F327EB9.5020707@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308072006.35087.dev@archonet.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/141 +X-Sequence-Number: 2958 + +On Thursday 07 August 2003 17:30, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> Hi All! +> +> +> First, thanks for answers! +> +> Richard Huxton wrote: +> > On Thursday 07 August 2003 09:24, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: +> >>>IIRC there is a limit on filesystem cache on freeBSD. 300MB by default. +> >>>If that is the case, you might have to raise it to make +> >>>effective_cache_size really effective.. +> >> +> >> "Try various sysctls" says nothing for me. I want use *all available +> >>RAM* (of course, without needed for OS use) for PostgreSQL. +> > +> > PG will be using the OS' disk caching. +> +> I think all applications using OS disk caching. ;) +> Or you want to say that PostgreSQL tuned for using OS-specific cache +> implementation? +> Do you know method for examining real size of OS filesystem cache? If I +> understood right, PostgreSQL dynamically use all available RAM minus +> shared_buffers minus k * sort_mem minus effective_cache_size? +> I want configure PostgreSQL for using _maximum_ of available RAM. + +PG's memory use can be split into four areas (note - I'm not a developer so +this could be wrong). +1. Shared memory - vital so that different connections can communicate with +each other. Shouldn't be too large, otherwise PG spends too long managing its +shared memory rather than working on your queries. +2. Sort memory - If you have to sort results during a query it will use up to +the amount you define in sort_mem and then use disk if it needs any more. +This is for each sort. +3. Results memory - If you're returning 8000 rows then PG will assemble these +and send them to the client which also needs space to store the 8000 rows. +4. Working memory - to actually run the queries - stack and heap space to keep +track of its calculations etc. + +Your best bet is to start off with some smallish reasonable values and step +them up gradually until you don't see any improvement. What is vital is that +the OS can cache enough disk-space to keep all your commonly used tables and +indexes in memory - if it can't then you'll see performance drop rapidly as +PG has to keep accessing the disk. + +For the moment, I'd leave the settings roughly where they are while we look at +the query, then once that's out of the way we can fine-tune the settings. + +[snip suggestion to break the query down] +> Yes, you're right. I've tested a few statements and obtain interesting +> results. +> SELECT * FROM v_file02wide WHERE... executes about 34 seconds. +> SELECT showcalc(...); executes from 0.7 seconds (without recursion) up +> to 6.3 seconds if recursion is used! :( +> This mean, that approximate execute time for fully qualified SELECT +> with about 8K rows is... about 13 hours! :-O + +Hmm - not good. + +> Hence, problem is in my function showcalc: + +That's certainly the place to start, although we might be able to do something +with v_file02wide later. + +> CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION showcalc(VARCHAR(10), VARCHAR(2), VARCHAR(4), +> NUMERIC(16)) RETURNS NUMERIC(16) +> LANGUAGE SQL STABLE AS ' +> -- Parameters: code, dd, r020, t071 +> SELECT COALESCE( +> (SELECT sc.koef * $4 +> FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc +> WHERE s.kod = $1 +> AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = ''['' +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) = $3 +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) = SUBSTR($2, 1, 1)), +> (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +> LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), $2, $3, $4), 0)) +> FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc +> WHERE s.kod = $1 +> AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = ''[''), +> 0) AS showing; +> '; +> +> BTW, cross join "," with WHERE clause don't improve performance +> relative to NATURAL JOIN. +> Additionally, with user-defined function beginchar (SUBSTR(..., 1, 1)), +> used for indexing, showcalc executes about 16 seconds. With function +> SUBSTR the same showcalc executes 6 seconds. + +Fair enough - substr should be fairly efficient. + +[snip explanation of table structures and usage] + +I'm not going to claim I understood everything in your explanation, but there +are a couple of things I can suggest. However, before you go and do any of +that, can I ask you to post an EXPLAIN ANALYSE of two calls to your +showcalc() function (once for a simple account, once for one with recursion)? +You'll need to cut and paste the query as standard SQL since the explain +won't look inside the function body. + +OK - bear in mind that these suggestions are made without the benefit of the +explain analyse: + +1. You could try splitting out the various tags of your mask into different +fields - that will instantly eliminate all the substr() calls and might make +a difference. If you want to keep the mask for display purposes, we could +build a trigger to keep it in sync with the separate flags. + +2. Use a "calculations" table and build your results step by step. So - +calculate all the simple accounts, then calculate the ones that contain the +simple accounts. + +3. You could keep a separate "account_contains" table that might look like: + acc_id | contains + A001 | A001 + A002 | A002 + A003 | A003 + A003 | A001 + A004 | A004 + A004 | A003 + A004 | A001 + +So here A001/A002 are simple accounts but A003 contains A001 too. A004 +contains A003 and A001. The table can be kept up to date automatically using +some triggers. +This should make it simple to pick up all the accounts contained within the +target account and might mean you can eliminate the recursion. + +> Now I think about change function showcalc or/and this data +> structures... :) + +Post the EXPLAIN ANALYSE first - maybe someone smarter than me will have an +idea. + +> Anyway, 600Mb is too low for PostgreSQL for executing my query - DBMS +> raise error after 11.5 hours (of estimated 13?). :( + +I think the problem is the 13 hours, not the 600MB. Once we've got the query +running in a reasonable length of time (seconds) then the memory requirements +will go down, I'm sure. + +-- + Richard Huxton + Archonet Ltd + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 17:24:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC510D1C48E + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:24:36 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 24371-07 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 17:23:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.int.nxad.com (internal.ext.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F19D1C4E1 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 17:24:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.int.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 7B04F2105E; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:24:26 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:24:26 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: Manfred Koizar +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Moving postgresql.conf tunables into 2003... +Message-ID: <20030807202426.GI94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> +References: <20030703190502.GR72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <2422.1057264735@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030704000646.GV72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <4nfiiv850cu7vkp39tv7mk2b3pniim8ccu@4ax.com> + <20030805222609.GF94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/144 +X-Sequence-Number: 2961 + +> >> I have an experimental patch lying around somewhere that tries to +> >> work around these problems by offering different estimation methods +> >> for index scans. If you are interested, I'll dig it out. +> > +> >Sure, I'll take a gander... had my head in enough Knuth recently to +> >even hopefully have some kind of a useful response to the patch. +> +> Sean, the patch is at http://www.pivot.at/pg/16-correlation-732.diff. +> A short description of its usage can be found at +> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-performance/2002-11/msg00256.php. +> If you are interested how the different interpolation methods work, +> read the source - it shouldn't be too hard to find. +> +> You might also want to read the thread starting at +> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2002-10/msg00072.php. + +Hrm... let me bop back in my archives and reply there... very +interesting work though. I hope a reasonable algorythm can be found +in time for 7.5, or even 7.4 as this seems to be biting many people +and the current algo is clearly not right. + +> >> does this mean that sensorid, evtime, and action are not +> >> independent? +> > +> >Hrm... sensorid is sequence and grows proportional with evtime, +> >obviously. +> +> So a *low* sensorid (7) is quite uncommon for a *late* evtime? This +> would help understand the problem. Unfortunately I have no clue what +> to do about it. :-( + +Correct. + +> >Having spent a fair amount of time looking at the two following plans, +> >it seems as though an additional statistic is needed to change the +> >cost of doing an index lookup when the index is linearly ordered. +> +> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "index is linearly +> ordered", but I guess correlation is that statistic you are talking +> about. However, it is calculated per column, not per index. + +If two rows are id's 123456 and 123457, what are the odds that the +tuples are going to be on the same page? ie, if 123456 is read, is +123457 already in the OS or PostgreSQL's disk cache? + +> >Whether CLUSTER does this or not, I don't know, +> +> If you CLUSTER on an index and then ANALYSE, you get a correlation of +> 1.0 (== optimum) for the first column of the index. + +Correlating of what to what? Of data to nearby data? Of data to +related data (ie, multi-column index?)? Of related data to pages on +disk? Not 100% sure in what context you're using the word +correlation... + +But that value will degrade after time and at what rate? Does ANALYZE +maintain that value so that it's kept acurrate? The ANALYZE page was +lacking in terms of implementation details in terms of how many rows +ANALYZE actually scans on big tables, which could dramatically affect +the correlation of a table after time if ANALYZE is maintaining the +correlation for a column. + +> > I never heard back from him after getting the runtime down to a +> > few ms. :-/ +> +> Pity! I'd have liked to see EXPLAIN ANALYSE for +> +> SELECT * +> FROM mss_fwevent +> WHERE sensorid = 7 +> AND evtime > (now() - '6 hours'::INTERVAL) +> AND NOT action; +> +> SELECT * +> FROM mss_fwevent +> WHERE sensorid = 7 +> AND evtime > (now() - '6 hours'::INTERVAL); +> +> SELECT * +> FROM mss_fwevent +> WHERE evtime > (now() - '6 hours'::INTERVAL); +> +> SELECT * +> FROM mss_fwevent +> WHERE sensorid = 7; + +ditto + +> > Are indexes +> >on linearly ordered data rebalanced somehow? I thought CLUSTER only +> >reordered data on disk. -sc +> +> AFAIK CLUSTER re-creates all indices belonging to the table. + +As of 7.3 or 7.4, yes. -sc + +-- +Sean Chittenden + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 18:16:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FAA8D1C914 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:16:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 29820-03 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:14:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail-1.zoominternet.net (mail-1.zoominternet.net [63.67.120.5]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DE523D1C7F4 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:15:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 12860 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2003 21:15:51 -0000 +Received: from acs-24-154-209-142.zoominternet.net (HELO gmod.lajolla) + ([24.154.209.142]) (envelope-sender ) + by mail-1.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 7 Aug 2003 21:15:51 -0000 +Subject: Re: EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +From: Scott Cain +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Joe Conway , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <8177.1060204101@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <7896.1060202191@sss.pgh.pa.us> <3F316A41.6020403@joeconway.com> + <8177.1060204101@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab +Message-Id: <1060290951.6795.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 07 Aug 2003 17:15:51 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/145 +X-Sequence-Number: 2962 + +> snipped much discussion about EXTERNAL storage and substring speed + +Joe and Tom, + +Thanks for all of your help; I went back to my (nearly) production +database, and executed the `update feature set residues = residues +||'';` and then redid my benchmark. Here's a summary of the results: + +substr in perl 0.83sec/op +substring on default text column 0.24sec/op +substring on EXTERNAL column 0.0069sec/op + +There's that 2 orders of magnitude improvement I was looking for! + +Thanks again, +Scott + +-- +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Scott Cain, Ph. D. cain@cshl.org +GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 +Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 7 20:32:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 075CED1C514 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 23:32:08 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 44692-03 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:30:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFB5D1C488 + for ; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:31:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h77NVqSa009731; + Thu, 7 Aug 2003 19:31:52 -0400 (EDT) +To: Sean Chittenden +Cc: Manfred Koizar , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Moving postgresql.conf tunables into 2003... +In-reply-to: <20030807202426.GI94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> +References: <20030703190502.GR72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <2422.1057264735@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030704000646.GV72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <4nfiiv850cu7vkp39tv7mk2b3pniim8ccu@4ax.com> + <20030805222609.GF94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> + + <20030807202426.GI94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Sean Chittenden + message dated "Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:24:26 -0700" +Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:31:52 -0400 +Message-ID: <9730.1060299112@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/146 +X-Sequence-Number: 2963 + +Sean Chittenden writes: +>> If you CLUSTER on an index and then ANALYSE, you get a correlation of +>> 1.0 (== optimum) for the first column of the index. + +> Correlating of what to what? Of data to nearby data? Of data to +> related data (ie, multi-column index?)? Of related data to pages on +> disk? Not 100% sure in what context you're using the word +> correlation... + +The correlation is between index order and heap order --- that is, are +the tuples in the table physically in the same order as the index? +The better the correlation, the fewer heap-page reads it will take to do +an index scan. + +Note it is possible to measure correlation without regard to whether +there actually is any index; ANALYZE is simply looking to see whether +the values appear in increasing order according to the datatype's +default sort operator. + +One problem we have is extrapolating from the single-column correlation +stats computed by ANALYZE to appropriate info for multi-column indexes. +It might be that the only reasonable fix for this is for ANALYZE to +compute multi-column stats too when multi-column indexes are present. +People are used to the assumption that you don't need to re-ANALYZE +after creating a new index, but maybe we'll have to give that up. + +> But that value will degrade after time and at what rate? Does ANALYZE +> maintain that value so that it's kept acurrate? + +You keep it up to date by ANALYZE-ing at suitable intervals. It's no +different from any other statistic. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 04:54:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A105DD1C932 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:54:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 91249-06 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 04:53:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fw.wubn.net (unknown [213.156.64.226]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04D8D1C513 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 04:54:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from (172.24.4.34) + by fw.wubn.net (8.12.9/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h787s6Pt090657 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:54:08 +0300 (EEST) + (envelope-from yamazurak@Lviv.Bank.Gov.UA) +Received: from (172.24.4.57) by MTA (8.11.5/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h787s6f01838 + for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:54:06 +0300 +Message-ID: <3F335715.109@lviv.bank.gov.ua> +Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 10:53:57 +0300 +From: Yaroslav Mazurak +Organization: National Bank of Ukraine Lviv OU +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: uk, ru, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL performance problem -> tuning +References: <49274.192.168.1.32.1060184304.squirrel@mainbox.archonet.com> + <200308071552.48868.dev@archonet.com> + <3F327EB9.5020707@lviv.bank.gov.ua> + <200308072006.35087.dev@archonet.com> +In-Reply-To: <200308072006.35087.dev@archonet.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/147 +X-Sequence-Number: 2964 + + Hi, All! + + +Richard Huxton wrote: + +> On Thursday 07 August 2003 17:30, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +>>Richard Huxton wrote: + +>>>On Thursday 07 August 2003 09:24, Yaroslav Mazurak wrote: + +> PG's memory use can be split into four areas (note - I'm not a developer so +> this could be wrong). +> 1. Shared memory - vital so that different connections can communicate with +> each other. Shouldn't be too large, otherwise PG spends too long managing its +> shared memory rather than working on your queries. +> 2. Sort memory - If you have to sort results during a query it will use up to +> the amount you define in sort_mem and then use disk if it needs any more. +> This is for each sort. +> 3. Results memory - If you're returning 8000 rows then PG will assemble these +> and send them to the client which also needs space to store the 8000 rows. +> 4. Working memory - to actually run the queries - stack and heap space to keep +> track of its calculations etc. + + Hence, total free RAM - shared_buffers - k * sort_mem - +effective_cache_size == (results memory + working memory)? + +> For the moment, I'd leave the settings roughly where they are while we look at +> the query, then once that's out of the way we can fine-tune the settings. + + OK. + +>> Additionally, with user-defined function beginchar (SUBSTR(..., 1, 1)), +>>used for indexing, showcalc executes about 16 seconds. With function +>>SUBSTR the same showcalc executes 6 seconds. + +> Fair enough - substr should be fairly efficient. + + Cost of user-defined SQL function call in PostgreSQL is high? + +> OK - bear in mind that these suggestions are made without the benefit of the +> explain analyse: + +> 1. You could try splitting out the various tags of your mask into different +> fields - that will instantly eliminate all the substr() calls and might make +> a difference. If you want to keep the mask for display purposes, we could +> build a trigger to keep it in sync with the separate flags. + + This will be next step. :) + +> 2. Use a "calculations" table and build your results step by step. So - +> calculate all the simple accounts, then calculate the ones that contain the +> simple accounts. + + I give to SQL to user and few helper functions. Therefore single step +is required for building results. + +> 3. You could keep a separate "account_contains" table that might look like: +> acc_id | contains +> A001 | A001 +> A002 | A002 +> A003 | A003 +> A003 | A001 +> A004 | A004 +> A004 | A003 +> A004 | A001 + +> So here A001/A002 are simple accounts but A003 contains A001 too. A004 +> contains A003 and A001. The table can be kept up to date automatically using +> some triggers. +> This should make it simple to pick up all the accounts contained within the +> target account and might mean you can eliminate the recursion. + + Thanks, sounds not so bad, but I suspect that this method don't improve +performance essentially. + I think about another secondary table for showcomp (compshow :)) with +showings "compiled" into account numbers and characteritics. After +inserting or updating new or old showing this showing will be +"recompiled" by explicit function call or trigger into atomary account +numbers and characteristics. + +> Post the EXPLAIN ANALYSE first - maybe someone smarter than me will have an +> idea. + + First result - simple showing 'B00202' (without recursion). + Second result - complex showing 'B00204' with recursion (1 level depth). + Showing 'B00202' contains 85 accounts, 'B00203' - 108 accounts, and +'B00204' = 'B00202' - 'B00203'. + Query text: + +EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT COALESCE( + (SELECT sc.koef * 100 + FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc + WHERE s.kod = 'B00202' + AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = '[' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) = '6010' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) = SUBSTR('20', 1, 1)), + (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), '20', '6010', 100), 0)) + FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc + WHERE s.kod = 'B00202' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = '['), + 0) AS showing; + +EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT COALESCE( + (SELECT sc.koef * 100 + FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc + WHERE s.kod = 'B00204' + AND NOT SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = '[' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 4) = '6010' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 5, 1) = SUBSTR('20', 1, 1)), + (SELECT SUM(sc.koef * COALESCE(showcalc(SUBSTR(acc_mask, 2, +LENGTH(acc_mask) - 2), '20', '6010', 100), 0)) + FROM showing AS s NATURAL JOIN showcomp AS sc + WHERE s.kod = 'B00204' + AND SUBSTR(acc_mask, 1, 1) = '['), + 0) AS showing; + + QUERY PLAN + +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Result (cost=0.00..0.01 rows=1 width=0) (actual time=704.39..704.39 +rows=1 loops=1) + InitPlan + -> Hash Join (cost=5.22..449.63 rows=1 width=19) (actual +time=167.28..352.90 rows=1 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_show = "inner".id_show) + -> Seq Scan on showcomp sc (cost=0.00..444.40 rows=1 +width=15) (actual time=23.29..350.17 rows=32 loops=1) + Filter: ((substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 1) <> '['::text) +AND (substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 4) = '6010'::text) AND +(substr((acc_mask)::text, 5, 1) = '2'::text)) + -> Hash (cost=5.22..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual +time=0.67..0.67 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using index_showing_kod on showing s +(cost=0.00..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.61..0.64 rows=1 loops=1) + Index Cond: (kod = 'B00202'::character varying) + -> Hash Join (cost=5.22..449.63 rows=1 width=19) (actual +time=166.20..351.28 rows=1 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_show = "inner".id_show) + -> Seq Scan on showcomp sc (cost=0.00..444.40 rows=1 +width=15) (actual time=23.36..349.24 rows=32 loops=1) + Filter: ((substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 1) <> '['::text) +AND (substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 4) = '6010'::text) AND +(substr((acc_mask)::text, 5, 1) = '2'::text)) + -> Hash (cost=5.22..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual +time=0.17..0.17 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using index_showing_kod on showing s +(cost=0.00..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.12..0.14 rows=1 loops=1) + Index Cond: (kod = 'B00202'::character varying) + -> Aggregate (cost=312.61..312.61 rows=1 width=28) (never executed) + -> Hash Join (cost=5.22..312.61 rows=1 width=28) (never +executed) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_show = "inner".id_show) + -> Seq Scan on showcomp sc (cost=0.00..307.04 +rows=69 width=24) (never executed) + Filter: (substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 1) = '['::text) + -> Hash (cost=5.22..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (never +executed) + -> Index Scan using index_showing_kod on +showing s (cost=0.00..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (never executed) + Index Cond: (kod = 'B00202'::character +varying) + -> Aggregate (cost=312.61..312.61 rows=1 width=28) (never executed) + -> Hash Join (cost=5.22..312.61 rows=1 width=28) (never +executed) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_show = "inner".id_show) + -> Seq Scan on showcomp sc (cost=0.00..307.04 +rows=69 width=24) (never executed) + Filter: (substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 1) = '['::text) + -> Hash (cost=5.22..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (never +executed) + -> Index Scan using index_showing_kod on +showing s (cost=0.00..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (never executed) + Index Cond: (kod = 'B00202'::character +varying) + Total runtime: 706.82 msec +(33 rows) + + + QUERY PLAN + +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + Result (cost=0.00..0.01 rows=1 width=0) (actual time=6256.20..6256.21 +rows=1 loops=1) + InitPlan + -> Hash Join (cost=5.22..449.63 rows=1 width=19) (actual +time=357.43..357.43 rows=0 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_show = "inner".id_show) + -> Seq Scan on showcomp sc (cost=0.00..444.40 rows=1 +width=15) (actual time=23.29..355.41 rows=32 loops=1) + Filter: ((substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 1) <> '['::text) +AND (substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 4) = '6010'::text) AND +(substr((acc_mask)::text, 5, 1) = '2'::text)) + -> Hash (cost=5.22..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual +time=0.22..0.22 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using index_showing_kod on showing s +(cost=0.00..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.16..0.19 rows=1 loops=1) + Index Cond: (kod = 'B00204'::character varying) + -> Hash Join (cost=5.22..449.63 rows=1 width=19) (never executed) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_show = "inner".id_show) + -> Seq Scan on showcomp sc (cost=0.00..444.40 rows=1 +width=15) (never executed) + Filter: ((substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 1) <> '['::text) +AND (substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 4) = '6010'::text) AND +(substr((acc_mask)::text, 5, 1) = '2'::text)) + -> Hash (cost=5.22..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (never executed) + -> Index Scan using index_showing_kod on showing s +(cost=0.00..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (never executed) + Index Cond: (kod = 'B00204'::character varying) + -> Aggregate (cost=312.61..312.61 rows=1 width=28) (actual +time=2952.69..2952.69 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=5.22..312.61 rows=1 width=28) (actual +time=12.59..264.69 rows=2 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_show = "inner".id_show) + -> Seq Scan on showcomp sc (cost=0.00..307.04 +rows=69 width=24) (actual time=0.09..251.52 rows=1035 loops=1) + Filter: (substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 1) = '['::text) + -> Hash (cost=5.22..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual +time=0.17..0.17 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using index_showing_kod on +showing s (cost=0.00..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.12..0.14 +rows=1 loops=1) + Index Cond: (kod = 'B00204'::character +varying) + -> Aggregate (cost=312.61..312.61 rows=1 width=28) (actual +time=2945.79..2945.80 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=5.22..312.61 rows=1 width=28) (actual +time=12.02..263.63 rows=2 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".id_show = "inner".id_show) + -> Seq Scan on showcomp sc (cost=0.00..307.04 +rows=69 width=24) (actual time=0.09..251.09 rows=1035 loops=1) + Filter: (substr((acc_mask)::text, 1, 1) = '['::text) + -> Hash (cost=5.22..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual +time=0.17..0.17 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using index_showing_kod on +showing s (cost=0.00..5.22 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.12..0.14 +rows=1 loops=1) + Index Cond: (kod = 'B00204'::character +varying) + Total runtime: 6257.35 msec +(33 rows) + +>> Anyway, 600Mb is too low for PostgreSQL for executing my query - DBMS +>>raise error after 11.5 hours (of estimated 13?). :( + +> I think the problem is the 13 hours, not the 600MB. Once we've got the query +> running in a reasonable length of time (seconds) then the memory requirements +> will go down, I'm sure. + + OK, that's right. + + +With best regards + Yaroslav Mazurak. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 07:28:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E09FD1C983 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:28:36 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 13705-03 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:27:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from beth.coza.net.za (beth.coza.net.za [206.223.136.193]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11908D1C4B9 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:28:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from coza.net.za (mixo.coza.net.za [206.223.136.225]) + by beth.coza.net.za (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h78AS3o21213 + for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:28:03 +0200 +Message-ID: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> +Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:28:09 +0200 +From: mixo +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Perfomance Tuning +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/148 +X-Sequence-Number: 2965 + +I have just installed redhat linux 9 which ships with Pg +7.3.2. Pg has to be setup so that data inserts (blobs) should +be able to handle at least 8M at a time. The machine has +two P III 933MHz CPU's, 1.128G RAM (512M*2 + 128M), and +a 36 Gig hd with 1 Gig swap and 3 equal size ext3 partitions. +What would be the recomended setup for good performance +considering that the db will have about 15 users for +9 hours in a day, and about 10 or so users throughout the day +who wont be conistenly using the db. + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 07:41:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E66D1C4CA + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:41:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 14995-03 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:40:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ns1.turtle-entertainment.de (ns1.turtle-entertainment.de + [193.41.200.20]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7605D1C4B9 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:41:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ip97.85.1311c-cud12k-02.ish.de ([62.143.85.97] + helo=mail.office.turtle-entertainment.de) + by ns1.turtle-entertainment.de with asmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19l4fo-00072q-00; Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:40:40 +0200 +Received: from pd95205c2.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.82.5.194] helo=shock) + by mail.office.turtle-entertainment.de with asmtp (Exim 3.22 #7 + (Debian)) id 19l4fl-0004jF-00; Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:40:37 +0200 +Message-ID: <01ed01c35d99$73f08d70$0564a8c0@shock> +From: "Bjoern Metzdorf" +To: "mixo" , +References: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:40:13 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Scanner: exiscan *19l4fl-0004jF-00*0rJPZq5DIZE* + http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/ +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/149 +X-Sequence-Number: 2966 + +> be able to handle at least 8M at a time. The machine has +> two P III 933MHz CPU's, 1.128G RAM (512M*2 + 128M), and +> a 36 Gig hd with 1 Gig swap and 3 equal size ext3 partitions. +> What would be the recomended setup for good performance +> considering that the db will have about 15 users for +> 9 hours in a day, and about 10 or so users throughout the day +> who wont be conistenly using the db. + +For 15 users you won't need great tuning at all. Just make sure, that you +have the right indizes on the tables and that you have good queries (query +plan). + +About the 8Meg blobs, I don't know. Other people on this list may be able to +give you hints here. + +Regards, +Bjoern + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 07:51:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A06D1C9AB + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:51:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15890-03 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:49:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33867D1C990 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:50:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h78Aq6Yb010719 + for ; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:22:06 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h78Aq57f010705; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:22:05 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, mixo +Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:22:52 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F33CE5C.23372.A81DD87@localhost> +In-reply-to: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/150 +X-Sequence-Number: 2967 + +On 8 Aug 2003 at 12:28, mixo wrote: + +> I have just installed redhat linux 9 which ships with Pg +> 7.3.2. Pg has to be setup so that data inserts (blobs) should +> be able to handle at least 8M at a time. The machine has +> two P III 933MHz CPU's, 1.128G RAM (512M*2 + 128M), and +> a 36 Gig hd with 1 Gig swap and 3 equal size ext3 partitions. +> What would be the recomended setup for good performance +> considering that the db will have about 15 users for +> 9 hours in a day, and about 10 or so users throughout the day +> who wont be conistenly using the db. + +You can look at http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/perf.html to start +with, although that would not take careof anything specifics to BLOB. + +I would suggest some pilot benchmark about how system performs after initial +tuning. We could discuss this in detail after you have a set of initial +benchmark. + +HTH + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +wolf, n.: A man who knows all the ankles. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 08:29:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651FCD1C983 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:29:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 11452-09 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:28:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from curry.tmsl.demon.co.uk (tmsl-adsl.demon.co.uk [80.177.114.181]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36AFD1C4DB + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:29:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from bacon.tmsl.demon.co.uk (bacon.tmsl.demon.co.uk [192.168.7.102]) + by curry.tmsl.demon.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h78BS1926280; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:28:02 +0100 +Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:28:00 +0100 +From: Paul Thomas +To: mixo +Cc: "pgsql-performance @ postgresql . org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030808122800.A10464@bacon> +References: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 +In-Reply-To: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za>; + from mixo@coza.net.za on Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 11:28:09 +0100 +X-Mailer: Balsa 1.2.3 +Lines: 30 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/151 +X-Sequence-Number: 2968 + + +On 08/08/2003 11:28 mixo wrote: +> I have just installed redhat linux 9 which ships with Pg +> 7.3.2. Pg has to be setup so that data inserts (blobs) should +> be able to handle at least 8M at a time. The machine has +> two P III 933MHz CPU's, 1.128G RAM (512M*2 + 128M), and +> a 36 Gig hd with 1 Gig swap and 3 equal size ext3 partitions. +> What would be the recomended setup for good performance +> considering that the db will have about 15 users for +> 9 hours in a day, and about 10 or so users throughout the day +> who wont be conistenly using the db. + + +It doesn't sound like a particlarly heavy loading to me. I'd start off +with something like + +shared_buffers = 2000 +sort_mem = 1024 +max_coonections = 100 + +and see how it performs under normal business loading. + +-- +Paul Thomas ++------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+ +| Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller +Business | +| Computer Consultants | +http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | ++------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+ + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 10:45:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCAEED1C984 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:45:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 35644-01 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:44:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781B3D1C4CA + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:45:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h78DgVbS023408; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:42:32 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 07:28:13 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: mixo +Cc: +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/152 +X-Sequence-Number: 2969 + +On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, mixo wrote: + +> I have just installed redhat linux 9 which ships with Pg +> 7.3.2. Pg has to be setup so that data inserts (blobs) should +> be able to handle at least 8M at a time. + +Nothing has to be done to tune postgresql to handle this, 8 Meg blobs are +no problem as far as I know. + +> The machine has +> two P III 933MHz CPU's, 1.128G RAM (512M*2 + 128M), and +> a 36 Gig hd with 1 Gig swap and 3 equal size ext3 partitions. +> What would be the recomended setup for good performance +> considering that the db will have about 15 users for +> 9 hours in a day, and about 10 or so users throughout the day +> who wont be conistenly using the db. + +Seeing as you have only one hard drive, how you arrange things on it +doesn't really make a big difference. If you can get another drive and +mirror your data partition that will help speed up selects as well as +provide some redundancy should one drive fail. + +How many queries per second are you looking at handling? If it's 1 or +less, you probably don't have much to worry about with this setup. We run +dual PIII-750s at work with 1.5 Gig ram, and while we're going to upgrade +the servers (they're currently handling apache/php/postgresql & ldap) +we'll keep the dual PIII-750 machines as the database boxes with nothing +else on them. Postgresql is quite snappy on such hardware. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 14:08:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B78AD1C990 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:40:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 44789-09 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:39:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from irko.smoothcorp.com (unknown [208.49.241.41]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E59D1C4DB + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:40:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.0.1.63] (helo=jgardner.smoothcorp.com) + by irko.smoothcorp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.12) + id 19lAHx-0005Yt-00; Fri, 08 Aug 2003 09:40:25 -0700 +Received: from jgardner.smoothcorp.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by jgardner.smoothcorp.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h78GePsN027676; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:40:25 -0700 +Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) + by jgardner.smoothcorp.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h78GeL8l027670; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:40:21 -0700 +From: Jonathan Gardner +To: mixo , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:40:20 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +References: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> +In-Reply-To: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: Text/Plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Description: clearsigned data +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308080940.21517.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> +X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: mixo@coza.net.za, pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/153 +X-Sequence-Number: 2970 + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- +Hash: SHA1 + +On Friday 08 August 2003 03:28, mixo wrote: +> I have just installed redhat linux 9 which ships with Pg +> 7.3.2. Pg has to be setup so that data inserts (blobs) should +> be able to handle at least 8M at a time. The machine has +> two P III 933MHz CPU's, 1.128G RAM (512M*2 + 128M), and +> a 36 Gig hd with 1 Gig swap and 3 equal size ext3 partitions. +> What would be the recomended setup for good performance +> considering that the db will have about 15 users for +> 9 hours in a day, and about 10 or so users throughout the day +> who wont be conistenly using the db. +> + +Redhat puts ext3 on by default. Consider switching to a non-journaling FS= +=20 +(ext2?) with the partition that holds your data and WAL. + +Consider having a seperate partition for the WAL as well. + +These are things that are more difficult to change later on. Everything els= +e=20 +is tweaking. + +Is it absolutely necessary to store 8MB files in the database? I find it=20 +cumbersome. Storing them on a file server has been a better alternative for= +=20 +me. + +- --=20 +Jonathan Gardner +Live Free, Use Linux! +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) + +iD8DBQE/M9J0WgwF3QvpWNwRAlT5AJ9EmDourbCiqj7MFOqfBospc2dW7gCfZKz0 +JQjn/2KAeh1SPJfN601LoFg=3D +=3DPW6k +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 14:32:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8913BD1C4DB + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:52:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 48668-06 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:51:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from email02.aon.at (WARSL402PIP7.highway.telekom.at [195.3.96.94]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 59F55D1C91F + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 13:52:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 194710 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2003 16:52:22 -0000 +Received: from m169p004.dipool.highway.telekom.at (HELO cantor) ([62.46.11.4]) + (envelope-sender ) + by qmail2rs.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 8 Aug 2003 16:52:22 -0000 +From: Manfred Koizar +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Sean Chittenden , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Index correlation (was: Moving postgresql.conf tunables into 2003... + ) +Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:52:44 +0200 +Message-ID: <24k7jv4c62amkgq42ouh4csrjuu5c6s1q4@4ax.com> +References: <20030703190502.GR72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <2422.1057264735@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030704000646.GV72567@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <4nfiiv850cu7vkp39tv7mk2b3pniim8ccu@4ax.com> + <20030805222609.GF94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> + + <20030807202426.GI94710@perrin.int.nxad.com> + <9730.1060299112@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <9730.1060299112@sss.pgh.pa.us> +X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/154 +X-Sequence-Number: 2971 + +On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:31:52 -0400, Tom Lane +wrote: +>The correlation is between index order and heap order --- that is, are +>the tuples in the table physically in the same order as the index? +>The better the correlation, the fewer heap-page reads it will take to do +>an index scan. + +This is true for a column that is the first column of a btree index. +Correlation doesn't help with additional index columns and with +functional indices. + +>Note it is possible to measure correlation without regard to whether +>there actually is any index; + +But there is no need to, because the correlation is only used for +index access cost estimation. + +>One problem we have is extrapolating from the single-column correlation +>stats computed by ANALYZE to appropriate info for multi-column indexes. +>It might be that the only reasonable fix for this is for ANALYZE to +>compute multi-column stats too when multi-column indexes are present. + +I wonder whether it would be better to drop column correlation and +calculate index correlation instead, i.e. correlation of index tuples +to heap tuple positions. This would solve both the multi-column index +and the functional index cost estimation problem. + +>People are used to the assumption that you don't need to re-ANALYZE +>after creating a new index, but maybe we'll have to give that up. + +Index correlation would be computed on CREATE INDEX and whenever the +heap relation is analysed ... + +Servus + Manfred + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 16:04:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CC9D1C9B3 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:53:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69667-01 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:52:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644D0D1C922 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:53:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19lCMd-0004Bi-00 + for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2003 14:53:23 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id 93AE3CF52; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:53:23 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:53:23 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030808185323.GH2967@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> + <200308080940.21517.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <200308080940.21517.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/155 +X-Sequence-Number: 2972 + +On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:40:20AM -0700, Jonathan Gardner wrote: +> +> Redhat puts ext3 on by default. Consider switching to a non-journaling FS +> (ext2?) with the partition that holds your data and WAL. + +I would give you exactly the opposite advice: _never_ use a +non-journalling fs for your data and WAL. I suppose if you can +afford to lose some transactions, you can do without journalling. +Otherwise, you're just borrowing trouble, near as I can tell. + +A + +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 16:21:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14464D1C4CA + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:14:02 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71600-03 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:12:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31CA6D1C4BF + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:13:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id A55841024D; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:06:24 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.39] (unknown [10.0.2.39]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 8A5CA10248; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:06:22 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +From: Rod Taylor +To: Andrew Sullivan +Cc: Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: <20030808185323.GH2967@libertyrms.info> +References: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> + <200308080940.21517.jgardner@jonathangardner.net> + <20030808185323.GH2967@libertyrms.info> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-FFrXQU2rUFUFb/YgEIpd" +Message-Id: <1060370026.97914.40.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:13:47 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/156 +X-Sequence-Number: 2973 + +--=-FFrXQU2rUFUFb/YgEIpd +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 14:53, Andrew Sullivan wrote: +> On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:40:20AM -0700, Jonathan Gardner wrote: +> >=20 +> > Redhat puts ext3 on by default. Consider switching to a non-journaling = +FS=20 +> > (ext2?) with the partition that holds your data and WAL. +>=20 +> I would give you exactly the opposite advice: _never_ use a +> non-journalling fs for your data and WAL. I suppose if you can +> afford to lose some transactions, you can do without journalling.=20 +> Otherwise, you're just borrowing trouble, near as I can tell. + +Agreed.. WAL cannot recover something when WAL no longer exists due to a +filesystem corruption. + + +--=-FFrXQU2rUFUFb/YgEIpd +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/M/Zp6DETLow6vwwRAuRlAJ4lEkrRikPrjQnWA2ILvPy6vAECbgCfY5Rj +WMkaPjCTU+7XyWtzRpnQOEc= +=gYPO +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-FFrXQU2rUFUFb/YgEIpd-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 16:37:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77A5D1C4CA + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:34:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 72587-03 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:33:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A55D1C922 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:34:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h78JYi906553; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:34:44 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308081934.h78JYi906553@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <1060370026.97914.40.camel@jester> +To: Rod Taylor +Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:34:44 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , + Postgresql Performance +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/157 +X-Sequence-Number: 2974 + +Rod Taylor wrote: +-- Start of PGP signed section. +> On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 14:53, Andrew Sullivan wrote: +> > On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:40:20AM -0700, Jonathan Gardner wrote: +> > > +> > > Redhat puts ext3 on by default. Consider switching to a non-journaling FS +> > > (ext2?) with the partition that holds your data and WAL. +> > +> > I would give you exactly the opposite advice: _never_ use a +> > non-journalling fs for your data and WAL. I suppose if you can +> > afford to lose some transactions, you can do without journalling. +> > Otherwise, you're just borrowing trouble, near as I can tell. +> +> Agreed.. WAL cannot recover something when WAL no longer exists due to a +> filesystem corruption. + +It is true that ext2 isn't good because the file system may not recover, +but BSD UFS isn't a journalled file system, but does guarantee file +system recovery after a crash --- it is especially good using soft +updates. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 16:47:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F72D1C91F + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:47:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71600-09 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:45:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D8BD1C4BF + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:46:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id E9DF81025B; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:39:23 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.39] (unknown [10.0.2.39]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id A0F371025A; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:39:19 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +From: Rod Taylor +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , + Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: <200308081934.h78JYi906553@candle.pha.pa.us> +References: <200308081934.h78JYi906553@candle.pha.pa.us> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-j678f8GnEidanTTPf7fL" +Message-Id: <1060372003.97914.54.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:46:44 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/158 +X-Sequence-Number: 2975 + +--=-j678f8GnEidanTTPf7fL +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +> > Agreed.. WAL cannot recover something when WAL no longer exists due to a +> > filesystem corruption. +>=20 +> It is true that ext2 isn't good because the file system may not recover, +> but BSD UFS isn't a journalled file system, but does guarantee file +> system recovery after a crash --- it is especially good using soft +> updates. + +Yes, UFS(2) is an excellent filesystem for PostgreSQL, especially if you +can use background fsck & softupdates. + +--=-j678f8GnEidanTTPf7fL +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/M/4i6DETLow6vwwRAl3CAJ9I4yCODjAhxPG5tawZZnFP7pcSVACeNMhA +GAJ0N4JAiDDZ5+7PTdE53vs= +=YcHr +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-j678f8GnEidanTTPf7fL-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 16:57:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2E3D1C4DB + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:57:07 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71445-07 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:55:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A7CD1C4CA + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:56:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19lDMA-0005nw-00 + for ; Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:56:58 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id A624BCF52; Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:56:58 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:56:58 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: Postgresql Performance +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030808195658.GJ2967@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + Postgresql Performance +References: <1060370026.97914.40.camel@jester> + <200308081934.h78JYi906553@candle.pha.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <200308081934.h78JYi906553@candle.pha.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/159 +X-Sequence-Number: 2976 + +On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 03:34:44PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> +> It is true that ext2 isn't good because the file system may not recover, +> but BSD UFS isn't a journalled file system, but does guarantee file +> system recovery after a crash --- it is especially good using soft +> updates. + +Sorry. I usually write "journalled or equivalent" for this reason. +I think UFS with soft updates is a good example of this. You also +don't need complete journalling in most cases -- metadata is probably +sufficient, given fsync. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 8 17:14:12 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6990D1C93B + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:14:10 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 74084-03 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 17:12:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74C6D1C937 + for ; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 17:13:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h78KDlSa029639; + Fri, 8 Aug 2003 16:13:47 -0400 (EDT) +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Rod Taylor , Andrew Sullivan , + Postgresql Performance +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-reply-to: <200308081934.h78JYi906553@candle.pha.pa.us> +References: <200308081934.h78JYi906553@candle.pha.pa.us> +Comments: In-reply-to Bruce Momjian + message dated "Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:34:44 -0400" +Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:13:47 -0400 +Message-ID: <29638.1060373627@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/160 +X-Sequence-Number: 2977 + +Bruce Momjian writes: +> Rod Taylor wrote: +>> On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 14:53, Andrew Sullivan wrote: +>>> I would give you exactly the opposite advice: _never_ use a +>>> non-journalling fs for your data and WAL. I suppose if you can +>>> afford to lose some transactions, you can do without journalling. +>>> Otherwise, you're just borrowing trouble, near as I can tell. +>> +>> Agreed.. WAL cannot recover something when WAL no longer exists due to a +>> filesystem corruption. + +> It is true that ext2 isn't good because the file system may not recover, +> but BSD UFS isn't a journalled file system, but does guarantee file +> system recovery after a crash --- it is especially good using soft +> updates. + +The main point here is that the filesystem has to be able to take care +of itself; we expect it not to lose any files or forget where the data +is. If it wants to use journalling to accomplish that, fine. + +Journalling file contents updates, as opposed to filesystem metadata, +should be redundant with what we do in WAL. So I'd recommend +journalling metadata only, if that option is available (and if Postgres +stuff is the only stuff on the disk...) + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 00:11:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA197D1C984 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 03:11:09 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 39427-03 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 00:09:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from varlena.com (adsl-64-165-208-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net + [64.165.208.112]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF23D1C514 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 00:10:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by varlena.com (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386), from userid 500) + id 42C57399D2; Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:04:40 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:04:40 -0700 +From: elein +To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org +Cc: elein@varlena.com +Subject: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +Message-ID: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> +Mail-Followup-To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/606 +X-Sequence-Number: 42264 + + +SuSE 7.3, PostgreSQL cvshead (7.4) + +This is as far as I've gotten with 7.4. +It is built and configured like my 7.3 installation +on the same machine. I have built from CVS previously. +And the production sources always builds very nice and clean. + +Nothing runs. gbd output is below. It is balking +on loading a suspect library. + +I ordinarily would suspect some minor permission +or configuration issue, but I cannot see one. + +Joe Conway suggested it might be a problem with the +the windows configuration changes. + +My machine has WINE on it (windows) although +I never use it. There really should be no +reason for anything to be trying to link +in a windows socket library. + +I don't have time to follow it further right now. +But if someone else has a similar configuration +and/or wine installed, it would be very helpful +to compare 7.4 installations. I can provide +config arguments and log if someone would find +them useful. + +>gdb bin/postmaster +GNU gdb 20010316 +Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc. +GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are +welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. +Type "show copying" to see the conditions. +There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. +This GDB was configured as "i386-suse-linux"... +(gdb) run -i -D /local/pghead/data +Starting program: /local/pghead/bin/postmaster -i -D /local/pghead/data + +Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. +0x40099ac5 in dllname () from /usr/lib/libwsock32.so +(gdb) bt +#0 0x40099ac5 in dllname () from /usr/lib/libwsock32.so +#1 0x08121821 in StreamServerPort () +#2 0x08150996 in PostmasterMain () +#3 0x08123353 in main () +#4 0x4010e7ee in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6 + + +elein@varlena.com + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 01:08:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5AFD1C4D9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 04:08:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 39565-06 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 01:07:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56E0D1C910 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 01:08:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7B48Wd10751; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 00:08:32 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308110408.h7B48Wd10751@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +In-Reply-To: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> +To: elein +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 00:08:32 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, elein@varlena.com +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/608 +X-Sequence-Number: 42266 + + +That line is certainly strange: + + #0 0x40099ac5 in dllname () from /usr/lib/libwsock32.so + +When you run configure, it says you are on Linux, right? + +My guess is that gdb is getting confused because there is no dllopen +call in StreamServerPort(). + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +elein wrote: +> +> SuSE 7.3, PostgreSQL cvshead (7.4) +> +> This is as far as I've gotten with 7.4. +> It is built and configured like my 7.3 installation +> on the same machine. I have built from CVS previously. +> And the production sources always builds very nice and clean. +> +> Nothing runs. gbd output is below. It is balking +> on loading a suspect library. +> +> I ordinarily would suspect some minor permission +> or configuration issue, but I cannot see one. +> +> Joe Conway suggested it might be a problem with the +> the windows configuration changes. +> +> My machine has WINE on it (windows) although +> I never use it. There really should be no +> reason for anything to be trying to link +> in a windows socket library. +> +> I don't have time to follow it further right now. +> But if someone else has a similar configuration +> and/or wine installed, it would be very helpful +> to compare 7.4 installations. I can provide +> config arguments and log if someone would find +> them useful. +> +> >gdb bin/postmaster +> GNU gdb 20010316 +> Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc. +> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are +> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. +> Type "show copying" to see the conditions. +> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. +> This GDB was configured as "i386-suse-linux"... +> (gdb) run -i -D /local/pghead/data +> Starting program: /local/pghead/bin/postmaster -i -D /local/pghead/data +> +> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. +> 0x40099ac5 in dllname () from /usr/lib/libwsock32.so +> (gdb) bt +> #0 0x40099ac5 in dllname () from /usr/lib/libwsock32.so +> #1 0x08121821 in StreamServerPort () +> #2 0x08150996 in PostmasterMain () +> #3 0x08123353 in main () +> #4 0x4010e7ee in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6 +> +> +> elein@varlena.com +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings +> + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 06:01:05 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0AE9D1C4B9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:00:03 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65226-08 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 05:58:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lata.dp.ua (unknown [213.179.230.244]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE6B0D1C4E3 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 05:59:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.0.48] (helo=sergeyd) + by lata.dp.ua with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 19m8Wq-00027N-00 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:59:48 +0300 +From: "Serge Dorofeev" +To: +Subject: How to force PostgreeSQL to work faster? +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:59:45 +0300 +Organization: . +Message-ID: <000101c35fe6$ea3fea80$3000a8c0@sergeyd> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C36000.0F8EA920" +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 +Importance: Normal +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 + tests=ASCII_FORM_ENTRY, HTML_80_90, HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Archive-Number: 200308/161 +X-Sequence-Number: 2978 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C36000.0F8EA920 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +Hi PostrgeSQL team, + +My PostrgeSQL installed as part of CYGWIN (Windows XP). +I have compared performance PostrgeSQL to MS SQL (I used a little Java +program with number of inserts in table). +MS SQL is faster in 12 times :-( +It's very strange results. +Guys who developed this server: what you can tell in this - what +customizations needs to increase of productivity? +How to force PostgreeSQL to work faster? + + + Speed (inserts/sec) Elapsed time (ms) +MS SQL (Average): 295 39 869 + testInsert 5000 + 263 18 977 + 255 19 619 + 306 16 334 + + testInsert 10000 + 315 31 716 + 324 30 905 + 319 31 325 + + testInsert 20000 + 241 82 919 + 313 63 922 + 317 63 101 + +PostrgreSQL (Average): 24 520 160 + testInsert 5000 + 26 191 434 + 26 191 264 + 26 192 295 + + testInsert 10000 + 22 463 669 + 25 393 510 + 24 409 528 + + testInsert 20000 + 24 834 911 + 17 1 184 613 + 24 820 218 +MS SQL is faster (times): 12 13 + + + +______________________________________________________ +With regards, +Serge. + + + +------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C36000.0F8EA920 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + +Message + + + +

Hi PostrgeSQL  team,

My PostrgeSQL installed as part of CYGW= +IN=20 +(Windows XP).
I have compared performance PostrgeSQL to MS SQL (I used a= +=20 +little Java program with number of inserts in table).
MS SQL is faster i= +n 12=20 +times :-(
It's very strange results.
Guys who developed this server: = +what=20 +you can tell in this - what customizations needs to increase of=20 +productivity?
How to force PostgreeSQL to work faster?

+

+

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
 Speed (inserts/sec)<= +/TD> + Elapsed time (ms)
MS SQL (Average): + 295= +39=20 + 869
 testInsert 5000 
 263 + 18 977
 25519 619
 30616 334
   
 testInsert 10000 
 315 + 31 716
 324 + 30 905
 319 + 31 325
   
 testInsert 20000 
 241 + 82 919
 313 + 63 922
 31763 101
  <= +FONT=20 + size=3D2> 
PostrgreSQL (Average):24<= +/TD> + 520=20 + 160
 testInsert 5000 
 26191 434
 26191 264
 26192 295
   
 testInsert 10000 
 22463 669
 25393 510
 24409 528
   
 testInsert 20000 
 24834 911
 171 184 613
 24820 218
MS SQL is faster=20 +(times):1213

+



___________________________________________________= +___
With=20 +regards,
Serge.

+ +------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C36000.0F8EA920-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 08:34:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D12C1D1C514 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:34:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 83516-05 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:33:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from popularworld.com (unknown [203.194.162.107]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1DA8D1C4D9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:34:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from joey ([202.64.84.81]) by popularworld.com ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:34:32 +0800 +Message-ID: <001a01c35ffc$651e7cc0$71327f81@joey> +From: +To: +Subject: Peformance of Update +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:33:32 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3603F.73063A60" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40, + HTML_MESSAGE, NO_REAL_NAME +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Archive-Number: 200308/162 +X-Sequence-Number: 2979 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3603F.73063A60 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="big5" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Hi, + Currently we are using postgresql 7.3 with Redhat linux 9. We find that= + when we try to execute 200,000 update statement through JDBC, the performa= +nce of degraded obviously for each update statement when comparing with les= +s update statement(eg. 5000). Is there any suggestion that we can improve t= +he performance for executing update statement at postgresql ? Thanks. + +Regards, +Ricky. + +------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3603F.73063A60 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="big5" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + + + + + +
Hi,
+
    Currently we are using postgresql 7.= +3 with=20 +Redhat linux 9. We find that when we try to execute 200,000 update statemen= +t=20 +through JDBC, the performance of degraded obviously for each update stateme= +nt=20 +when comparing with less update statement(eg. 5000). Is there any suggestio= +n=20 +that we can improve the performance for executing update statement at= +=20 +postgresql ? Thanks.
+
 
+
Regards,
+
Ricky.
+ +------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C3603F.73063A60-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 08:38:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8B8D1C4BA + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:38:10 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 82287-05 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:36:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E7FD1C950 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:37:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7BBc1t15850 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:38:01 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7BBc0Y15846; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:38:00 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 5D0FD6FCCC; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:37:50 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 546137F67F; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:37:50 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:37:50 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: Serge Dorofeev +Cc: +Subject: Re: How to force PostgreeSQL to work faster? +In-Reply-To: <000101c35fe6$ea3fea80$3000a8c0@sergeyd> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.9 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO, + RCVD_IN_NJABL, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM, RCVD_IN_RFCI, + RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL, USER_AGENT_PINE +X-Spam-Level: ** +X-Archive-Number: 200308/163 +X-Sequence-Number: 2980 + +Hi! + +Please send me the test db and the queries, with precise information +maybe the developers can help. + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 09:31:04 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE48D1C4B9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:31:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 88704-03 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:29:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from curry.tmsl.demon.co.uk (tmsl-adsl.demon.co.uk [80.177.114.181]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED52D1C514 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:30:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from bacon.tmsl.demon.co.uk (bacon.tmsl.demon.co.uk [192.168.7.102]) + by curry.tmsl.demon.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7BCUZ910986; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:30:35 +0100 +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:30:33 +0100 +From: Paul Thomas +To: Serge Dorofeev +Cc: "pgsql-performance @ postgresql . org" +Subject: Re: How to force PostgreeSQL to work faster? +Message-ID: <20030811133033.A25244@bacon> +References: <000101c35fe6$ea3fea80$3000a8c0@sergeyd> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 +In-Reply-To: <000101c35fe6$ea3fea80$3000a8c0@sergeyd>; + from sergeyd@ua.fm on Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 09:59:45 +0100 +X-Mailer: Balsa 1.2.3 +Lines: 67 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/164 +X-Sequence-Number: 2981 + + +On 11/08/2003 09:59 Serge Dorofeev wrote: +> Hi PostrgeSQL team, +> +> My PostrgeSQL installed as part of CYGWIN (Windows XP). +> I have compared performance PostrgeSQL to MS SQL (I used a little Java +> program with number of inserts in table). +> MS SQL is faster in 12 times :-( +> It's very strange results. +> Guys who developed this server: what you can tell in this - what +> customizations needs to increase of productivity? +> How to force PostgreeSQL to work faster? +> +> +> Speed (inserts/sec) Elapsed time (ms) +> MS SQL (Average): 295 39 869 +> testInsert 5000 +> 263 18 977 +> 255 19 619 +> 306 16 334 +> +> testInsert 10000 +> 315 31 716 +> 324 30 905 +> 319 31 325 +> +> testInsert 20000 +> 241 82 919 +> 313 63 922 +> 317 63 101 +> +> PostrgreSQL (Average): 24 520 160 +> testInsert 5000 +> 26 191 434 +> 26 191 264 +> 26 192 295 +> +> testInsert 10000 +> 22 463 669 +> 25 393 510 +> 24 409 528 +> +> testInsert 20000 +> 24 834 911 +> 17 1 184 613 +> 24 820 218 +> MS SQL is faster (times): 12 13 + +You don't give any details about your test code or how the databases are +configured so I'm guessing that you're inserts use an autocommitting +connection. For PostgreSQL, this causes each insert to be run inside a +tranaction and the transaction is then immediately written to disk. My +guess is that MS SQL behaves differently and doesn't immediately write to +disk (faster maybe but could cause data corruption). Try modifying your +program to have connection.setAutoCommit(false) and do a +connection.commit() after say every 100 inserts. + +HTH + +-- +Paul Thomas ++------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+ +| Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller +Business | +| Computer Consultants | +http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | ++------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+ + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 10:23:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7471D1C984 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:22:46 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 90455-07 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:21:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B64BD1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7BDOZkk019845 + for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:54:35 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BDOY3g019832 + for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:54:34 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:54:29 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: How to force PostgreeSQL to work faster? +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F37E665.29307.1A7FBFD4@localhost> +In-reply-to: <000101c35fe6$ea3fea80$3000a8c0@sergeyd> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/165 +X-Sequence-Number: 2982 + +On 11 Aug 2003 at 11:59, Serge Dorofeev wrote: + +> +> Hi PostrgeSQL team, +> +> My PostrgeSQL installed as part of CYGWIN (Windows XP). +> I have compared performance PostrgeSQL to MS SQL (I used a little Java program +> with number of inserts in table). +> MS SQL is faster in 12 times :-( +> It's very strange results. +> Guys who developed this server: what you can tell in this - what customizations +> needs to increase of productivity? +> How to force PostgreeSQL to work faster? + +First of all, get a unix. Cygwin is nowhere near any unix OS as far as +performance goes. Get linux and test. Testing postgresql under cygwin is like +testing MSSQL server under wine. May be wine is faster than cygwin but you got +the idea.. + +Second tune postgresql. Since you have not given any details, I would assume +you are runnning stock install of postgresql, which is not made for a benchmark +to say the least. + + +Check http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/perf.html for starters. Let us +know if that makes any difference.. + + + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Baker's First Law of Federal Geometry: A block grant is a solid mass of money surrounded on all sides by governors. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 10:26:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069F5D1C990 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:24:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 88419-10 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:22:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17383D1C4D6 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:24:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7BDQEc0020183 + for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:56:14 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BDQD3g020170 + for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:56:13 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:56:08 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Peformance of Update +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F37E6C8.24039.1A81422F@localhost> +In-reply-to: <001a01c35ffc$651e7cc0$71327f81@joey> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/166 +X-Sequence-Number: 2983 + +On 11 Aug 2003 at 19:33, whchung@popularworld.com wrote: +> Currently we are using postgresql 7.3 with Redhat linux 9. We find that +> when we try to execute 200,000 update statement through JDBC, the performance +> of degraded obviously for each update statement when comparing with less update +> statement(eg. 5000). Is there any suggestion that we can improve the +> performance for executing update statementat postgresql ? Thanks. + +How are you bunching your transactions? I mean how many updates per +transaction? + +And have you tried moving WAL to separate disk for such a update heavy +environment? Have you are tuned FSM to take care of dead tuples generated in +vacuum? Are you running autovacuum daemon? + +All these things are almost a must for such update heavy environment.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Moore's Constant: Everybody sets out to do something, and everybody does +something, but no one does what he sets out to do. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 11:16:30 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 749B2D1C510 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:16:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 99059-07 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:14:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ucsns.ucs.co.za (ucs.co.za [196.23.43.2]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A82ED1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:14:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ucspost.ucs.co.za (mailgw1.ucs.co.za [196.23.43.253]) + by ucsns.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with ESMTP id 713C72BDF7 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:12:26 +0200 (SAST) +Received: from jhb.ucs.co.za (jhb.ucs.co.za [172.31.1.3]) + by ucspost.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2376CDA9F5 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:58:42 +0200 (SAST) +Received: from svb.ucs.co.za (svb.ucs.co.za [172.31.1.148]) + by jhb.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with SMTP id BD2219737E + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:58:41 +0200 (SAST) +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:58:41 +0200 +From: Stef +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Analyze makes queries slow... +Message-Id: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> +X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) +User-Agent: sillypheed-claws (anti-aliased) +X-Face: + LV^-*d3kQlL,6{Y:X)M~tuL#y!p.kO_Qbc!xxqhZC4s}Y]L0g)z^aiLsQGY34d|}Xp:HNm)MRsc?^?ZQ}smznF&jx|w@,a**K&QL.Dc~2~M5V`zb>hExCJDB[[o=M)e"; + k-n[7tz2TY7+; *_xX's(5cUEtdw*yG-OmKm}6($zpUz8S`Nz@w +X-Operating-System: sid +X-X-X: _-^-_ +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; + boundary="Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_15:58:41_+0200_084bd0a0" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/167 +X-Sequence-Number: 2984 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +--Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_15:58:41_+0200_084bd0a0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +Hi all, + +I posted this problem on the sql list, and was referred to this list in stead. +I have attached an sql statement that normally runs under 3 minutes. +That is, until I vacuum analyze the database (or just the tables in the query), +then the same query runs longer than 12 hours, and I have to kill it. + +However 90% of queries are faster after analyzing on this database, +there are two or three, including this one that takes for ever. + +I have tried to reverse engineer the explain plan from before analyzing, +to come up with an sql statement, using proper joins, to force the planner +to do the original join, but although I came close, I never got the same +result as the original query. + +I suspect that this might be caused by some of the crazy indexes that +were built on some of these tables, but I can't really do much about that, +unless I can come up with a very good reason to nuke them. + +I also attached the "create table" statements for all the tables, as well +as a row count of each. + +Can somebody help me with guidelines or something similar, +to understand exactly what is happening in the explain plan. + +TIA +Stefan + + +--Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_15:58:41_+0200_084bd0a0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + name="explain_after.txt" +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename="explain_after.txt" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + + Aggregate (cost=52.00..61.64 rows=32 width=241) + -> Group (cost=52.00..57.62 rows=321 width=241) + -> Sort (cost=52.00..52.80 rows=321 width=241) + Sort Key: m.group_code, m.sku, m.brn_code, m.stktype_code, ss.supplier_price_curr_cost, sk.sku_price_curr_cost + -> Merge Join (cost=36.38..38.62 rows=321 width=241) + Merge Cond: (("outer".group_cde = "inner".group_cde) AND ("outer".brn_code = "inner".brn_code)) + Join Filter: (("outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..1407212.08 rows=63 width=179) + Join Filter: (("inner".sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku) AND ("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_code)) + -> Merge Join (cost=0.00..1405644.89 rows=315 width=135) + Merge Cond: ("outer".group_code = "inner".group_code) + Join Filter: ("outer".sku = "inner".sku) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..4826563.70 rows=8694 width=108) + -> Index Scan using master_fpp_values_idx2 on master_fpp_values m (cost=0.00..3766902.34 rows=215650 width=54) + Filter: (fpp_code = '200307'::text) + -> Index Scan using pk_supplier_price on supplier_price ss (cost=0.00..4.90 rows=1 width=54) + Index Cond: ((ss.group_cde = "outer".group_code) AND (ss.sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku) AND (ss.supplier_cde = "outer".supplier_code)) + -> Index Scan using master_sku_descr_idx3 on master_sku_descr s (cost=0.00..2535.04 rows=10758 width=27) + Filter: (control_code = '0'::text) + -> Index Scan using idx_sku_price on sku_price sk (cost=0.00..4.96 rows=1 width=44) + Index Cond: ((sk.group_cde = "outer".group_cde) AND (sk.sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku_mst_cde) AND (sk.price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND (sk.price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg)) + -> Sort (cost=36.38..36.87 rows=198 width=62) + Sort Key: p.group_cde, p.branch_cde + -> Hash Join (cost=18.46..28.82 rows=198 width=62) + Hash Cond: ("outer".brn_code = "inner".branch_cde) + -> Merge Join (cost=13.94..20.34 rows=198 width=33) + Merge Cond: ("outer".country_code = "inner".from_ctry) + -> Index Scan using master_branch_descr_idx4 on master_branch_descr b (cost=0.00..33.12 rows=198 width=15) + -> Sort (cost=13.94..13.95 rows=4 width=18) + Sort Key: f.from_ctry + -> Index Scan using forex_idx1 on forex f (cost=0.00..13.90 rows=4 width=18) + Index Cond: ((to_ctry = 'ZAF'::text) AND (fpp_code = '200307'::text)) + -> Hash (cost=4.02..4.02 rows=202 width=29) + -> Seq Scan on price_tmpl_det p (cost=0.00..4.02 rows=202 width=29) +(34 rows) + + +--Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_15:58:41_+0200_084bd0a0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + name="explain_before.txt" +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename="explain_before.txt" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + + Aggregate (cost=163.58..163.61 rows=1 width=699) + -> Group (cost=163.58..163.60 rows=1 width=699) + -> Sort (cost=163.58..163.58 rows=1 width=699) + Sort Key: m.group_code, m.sku, m.brn_code, m.stktype_code, ss.supplier_price_curr_cost, sk.sku_price_curr_cost + -> Nested Loop (cost=115.56..163.57 rows=1 width=699) + Join Filter: (("outer".sku = "inner".sku) AND ("outer".group_code = "inner".group_code)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=115.56..157.53 rows=1 width=635) + Join Filter: (("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg) AND ("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_cde)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=115.56..152.49 rows=1 width=517) + Join Filter: (("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_cde) AND ("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg)) + -> Hash Join (cost=115.56..147.45 rows=1 width=367) + Hash Cond: ("outer".branch_cde = "inner".brn_code) + Join Filter: ("inner".group_code = "outer".group_cde) + -> Seq Scan on price_tmpl_det p (cost=0.00..20.00 rows=1000 width=100) + -> Hash (cost=115.49..115.49 rows=25 width=267) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..115.49 rows=25 width=267) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..11.50 rows=1 width=115) + -> Index Scan using forex_idx1 on forex f (cost=0.00..5.71 rows=1 width=51) + Index Cond: ((to_ctry = 'ZAF'::text) AND (fpp_code = '200307'::text)) + -> Index Scan using master_branch_descr_idx4 on master_branch_descr b (cost=0.00..5.78 rows=1 width=64) + Index Cond: (b.country_code = "outer".from_ctry) + -> Index Scan using master_fpp_values_uidx1 on master_fpp_values m (cost=0.00..103.68 rows=25 width=152) + Index Cond: ((m.fpp_code = '200307'::text) AND (m.brn_code = "outer".brn_code)) + -> Index Scan using pk_supplier_price on supplier_price ss (cost=0.00..5.02 rows=1 width=150) + Index Cond: ((ss.group_cde = "outer".group_code) AND (ss.sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku) AND (ss.supplier_cde = "outer".supplier_code)) + -> Index Scan using idx_sku_price on sku_price sk (cost=0.00..5.02 rows=1 width=118) + Index Cond: ((sk.group_cde = "outer".group_cde) AND (sk.sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku_mst_cde) AND (sk.price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND (sk.price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg)) + -> Index Scan using master_sku_descr_idx1 on master_sku_descr s (cost=0.00..6.02 rows=1 width=64) + Index Cond: (("outer".group_cde = s.group_code) AND ("outer".sku_mst_cde = s.sku) AND (s.control_code = '0'::text)) +(29 rows) + + +--Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_15:58:41_+0200_084bd0a0 +Content-Type: application/octet-stream; + name="forex.sql" +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename="forex.sql" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 + +LS0KLS0gUG9zdGdyZVNRTCBkYXRhYmFzZSBkdW1wCi0tCgpcY29ubmVjdCAt +IHBvc3RncmVzCgpTRVQgc2VhcmNoX3BhdGggPSBwdWJsaWMsIHBnX2NhdGFs +b2c7CgotLQotLSBUT0MgZW50cnkgMiAoT0lEIDgwMjg4MDQpCi0tIE5hbWU6 +IGZvcmV4OyBUeXBlOiBUQUJMRTsgU2NoZW1hOiBwdWJsaWM7IE93bmVyOiBw +b3N0Z3JlcwotLQoKQ1JFQVRFIFRBQkxFIGZvcmV4ICgKICAgIGZyb21fY3Ry +eSB0ZXh0IE5PVCBOVUxMLAogICAgdG9fY3RyeSB0ZXh0IE5PVCBOVUxMLAog +ICAgZnBwX2NvZGUgdGV4dCBOT1QgTlVMTCwKICAgIGRlc2NyIHRleHQsCiAg +ICBpc19hY3RpdmUgYm9vbGVhbiwKICAgIHNlcSBpbnRlZ2VyLAogICAgcmF0 +ZSBudW1lcmljKDE4LDEwKQopOwoKCi0tCi0tIFRPQyBlbnRyeSAzIChPSUQg +ODAyODgwNCkKLS0gTmFtZTogZm9yZXg7IFR5cGU6IEFDTDsgU2NoZW1hOiBw +dWJsaWM7IE93bmVyOiBwb3N0Z3JlcwotLQoKUkVWT0tFIEFMTCBPTiBUQUJM +RSBmb3JleCBGUk9NIFBVQkxJQzsKR1JBTlQgQUxMIE9OIFRBQkxFIGZvcmV4 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svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E3ED1C94A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:05:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BF42bS000485; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:04:03 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:47:07 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Andrew Sullivan +Cc: +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <20030808185323.GH2967@libertyrms.info> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/168 +X-Sequence-Number: 2985 + +On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Andrew Sullivan wrote: + +> On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:40:20AM -0700, Jonathan Gardner wrote: +> > +> > Redhat puts ext3 on by default. Consider switching to a non-journaling FS +> > (ext2?) with the partition that holds your data and WAL. +> +> I would give you exactly the opposite advice: _never_ use a +> non-journalling fs for your data and WAL. I suppose if you can +> afford to lose some transactions, you can do without journalling. +> Otherwise, you're just borrowing trouble, near as I can tell. + +I'd argue that a reliable filesystem (ext2) is still better than a +questionable journaling filesystem (ext3 on kernels <2.4.20). + +This isn't saying to not use jounraling, but I would definitely test it +under load first to make sure it's not gonna lose data or get corrupted. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 12:24:27 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A03D1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:24:26 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06744-06 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:22:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5AEED1C4BA + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:24:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19mEWt-0008M7-00 + for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:24:15 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id 14382D0AA; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:24:15 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:24:14 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030811152414.GF9086@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <20030808185323.GH2967@libertyrms.info> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/169 +X-Sequence-Number: 2986 + +On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 08:47:07AM -0600, scott.marlowe wrote: +> This isn't saying to not use jounraling, but I would definitely test it +> under load first to make sure it's not gonna lose data or get corrupted. + +Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +taking a risk[1]. + +A + +My laptop's PCMCIA network card recently stopped working during a +"minor" version upgrade, even though it's almost 6 years old. +Someone decided that "cleaning up" the code required complete +redesign, and so all the bugs that had been shaken out during the 2.2 +series will now be reimplemented in a new and interesting way. Sigh. + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 12:44:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF298D1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:44:00 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 11589-01 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:42:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990D7D1C4BA + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:43:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BFhkSa002935; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:43:46 -0400 (EDT) +To: Stef +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Analyze makes queries slow... +In-reply-to: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> +References: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> +Comments: In-reply-to Stef + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:58:41 +0200" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:43:45 -0400 +Message-ID: <2934.1060616625@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/170 +X-Sequence-Number: 2987 + +Stef writes: +> I have attached an sql statement that normally runs under 3 minutes. +> That is, until I vacuum analyze the database (or just the tables in the query), +> then the same query runs longer than 12 hours, and I have to kill it. + +Could we see the results of "EXPLAIN ANALYZE", rather than just EXPLAIN, +for the un-analyzed case? I won't make you do it for the analyzed case ;-) +but when dealing with a plan-selection problem the planner's estimates +are obviously not to be trusted. + +Also, what do you see in pg_stats (after analyzing) for each of the +tables used in the query? + +And what PG version is this, exactly? + + regards, tom lane + +PS: in case you don't know this already, an easy way to get back to the +un-analyzed state is "DELETE FROM pg_statistics". + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 12:58:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1950AD1C513 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:56:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 10239-07 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:55:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26AF5D1C4BA + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:56:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BFsdSa003033; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:54:39 -0400 (EDT) +To: elein +Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, elein@varlena.com +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +In-reply-to: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> +Comments: In-reply-to elein + message dated "Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:04:40 -0700" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:54:39 -0400 +Message-ID: <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/633 +X-Sequence-Number: 42291 + +elein writes: +> This is as far as I've gotten with 7.4. + +Would you rebuild with --enable-debug (perhaps also --enable-cassert) +so that the gdb backtrace is more informative? + +Also, it seems likely that the issue is in or around the recently-added +IPv6 support, so I'd suggest using CVS tip or last night's snapshot +rather than the beta1 tarball. We've already made some portability +fixes there since beta1. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 13:48:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD56D1C7F1 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:48:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17149-01 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:46:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ucsns.ucs.co.za (ucs.co.za [196.23.43.2]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1635D1C4B9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:47:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ucspost.ucs.co.za (mailgw1.ucs.co.za [196.23.43.253]) + by ucsns.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 5F4C92BD7D; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:47:37 +0200 (SAST) +Received: from jhb.ucs.co.za (jhb.ucs.co.za [172.31.1.3]) + by ucspost.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with ESMTP + id C0A0FDA328; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:47:36 +0200 (SAST) +Received: from svb.ucs.co.za (svb.ucs.co.za [172.31.1.148]) + by jhb.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with SMTP + id 98AC99737E; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:47:36 +0200 (SAST) +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:47:36 +0200 +From: Stef +To: Tom Lane +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Analyze makes queries slow... +Message-Id: <20030811184736.7e191a86.svb@ucs.co.za> +In-Reply-To: <2934.1060616625@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> + <2934.1060616625@sss.pgh.pa.us> +X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) +User-Agent: sillypheed-claws (anti-aliased) +X-Face: + LV^-*d3kQlL,6{Y:X)M~tuL#y!p.kO_Qbc!xxqhZC4s}Y]L0g)z^aiLsQGY34d|}Xp:HNm)MRsc?^?ZQ}smznF&jx|w@,a**K&QL.Dc~2~M5V`zb>hExCJDB[[o=M)e"; + k-n[7tz2TY7+; *_xX's(5cUEtdw*yG-OmKm}6($zpUz8S`Nz@w +X-Operating-System: sid +X-X-X: _-^-_ +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; + boundary="Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_18:47:36_+0200_0856a3f0" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/171 +X-Sequence-Number: 2988 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +--Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_18:47:36_+0200_0856a3f0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +Hi Tom, + +Thanks for responding. +I got as much info as I could : + +On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:43:45 -0400 +Tom Lane wrote: + +=> Could we see the results of "EXPLAIN ANALYZE", rather than just EXPLAIN, +=> for the un-analyzed case? + +Attached the output of this. + +=> Also, what do you see in pg_stats (after analyzing) for each of the +=> tables used in the query? + +I attached a file in csv format of pg_stats after analyzing. +(With the columns selected on the top line) + +It looks like cached values for (quite a lot of?) the table columns. +I would assume it stores the most commonly selected +values for every column with an index. Don't know if I'm correct. + +=> And what PG version is this, exactly? + +PostgreSQL 7.3.1 + +Kind regards +Stefan + +--Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_18:47:36_+0200_0856a3f0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + name="explain_analyze.txt" +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename="explain_analyze.txt" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + + Aggregate (cost=187.80..187.84 rows=1 width=699) (actual time=142704.64..148066.77 rows=125769 loops=1) + -> Group (cost=187.80..187.82 rows=1 width=699) (actual time=142704.48..144239.11 rows=125769 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=187.80..187.81 rows=1 width=699) (actual time=142704.45..142947.14 rows=125769 loops=1) + Sort Key: m.group_code, m.sku, m.brn_code, m.stktype_code, ss.supplier_price_curr_cost, sk.sku_price_curr_cost + -> Nested Loop (cost=140.07..187.79 rows=1 width=699) (actual time=49796.26..135679.87 rows=125769 loops=1) + Join Filter: (("outer".sku = "inner".sku) AND ("outer".group_code = "inner".group_code)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=140.07..181.76 rows=1 width=635) (actual time=49742.50..118086.42 rows=125769 loops=1) + Join Filter: (("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_cde) AND ("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg) AND ("inner".supplier_cde = "outer".supplier_code)) + -> Nested Loop (cost=140.07..176.91 rows=1 width=485) (actual time=49741.95..90991.39 rows=125769 loops=1) + Join Filter: (("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg) AND ("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_cde)) + -> Hash Join (cost=140.07..172.07 rows=1 width=367) (actual time=49741.16..52345.71 rows=162115 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".branch_cde = "inner".brn_code) + Join Filter: ("inner".group_code = "outer".group_cde) + -> Seq Scan on price_tmpl_det p (cost=0.00..20.00 rows=1000 width=100) (actual time=0.09..9.50 rows=202 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=140.00..140.00 rows=27 width=267) (actual time=49740.97..49740.97 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..140.00 rows=27 width=267) (actual time=432.55..49360.23 rows=162115 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..30.79 rows=1 width=115) (actual time=154.19..184.03 rows=198 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on forex f (cost=0.00..25.00 rows=1 width=51) (actual time=50.86..51.12 rows=4 loops=1) + Filter: ((to_ctry = 'ZAF'::text) AND (fpp_code = '200307'::text)) + -> Index Scan using master_branch_descr_idx4 on master_branch_descr b (cost=0.00..5.78 rows=1 width=64) (actual time=25.90..32.81 rows=50 loops=4) + Index Cond: (b.country_code = "outer".from_ctry) + -> Index Scan using master_fpp_values_uidx1 on master_fpp_values m (cost=0.00..108.88 rows=27 width=152) (actual time=3.41..243.55 rows=819 loops=198) + Index Cond: ((m.fpp_code = '200307'::text) AND (m.brn_code = "outer".brn_code)) + -> Index Scan using idx_sku_price on sku_price sk (cost=0.00..4.83 rows=1 width=118) (actual time=0.09..0.21 rows=4 loops=162115) + Index Cond: ((sk.group_cde = "outer".group_code) AND (sk.sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku)) + -> Index Scan using idx_supplier_price on supplier_price ss (cost=0.00..4.83 rows=1 width=150) (actual time=0.11..0.16 rows=5 loops=125769) + Index Cond: (("outer".group_cde = ss.group_cde) AND ("outer".sku_mst_cde = ss.sku_mst_cde)) + -> Index Scan using master_sku_descr_idx1 on master_sku_descr s (cost=0.00..6.02 rows=1 width=64) (actual time=0.12..0.12 rows=1 loops=125769) + Index Cond: (("outer".group_cde = s.group_code) AND ("outer".sku_mst_cde = s.sku) AND (s.control_code = '0'::text)) + Total runtime: 148710.78 msec +(30 rows) + + +--Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_18:47:36_+0200_0856a3f0 +Content-Type: text/comma-separated-values; + name="pg_stats.csv" +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename="pg_stats.csv" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +schemaname,tablename,attname,null_frac,avg_width,n_distinct,most_common_freqs,correlation 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+public,supplier_price,supplier_cde,0,10,203,{0.073\,0.0446667\,0.0416667\,0.0416667\,0.0306667\,0.026\,0.024\,0.023\,0.023\,0.019},0.151589 +public,supplier_price,price_tmpl_hdr_cde,0,4,1,{1},1 +public,supplier_price,price_tmpl_hdr_reg,0,8,5,{0.231\,0.207333\,0.191667\,0.185\,0.185},0.211032 +public,supplier_price,supplier_sku_cde,0,4,19,{0.989},0.990141 +public,supplier_price,supplier_sku_barcde,0,4,1,{1},1 +public,supplier_price,supplier_price_leadtm_days,0,4,14,{0.884333},0.815372 +public,supplier_price,supplier_price_curr_cost,0,12,2285,{0.00866667\,0.00866667\,0.008\,0.00766667\,0.00533333\,0.00533333\,0.005\,0.005\,0.00466667\,0.00466667},-0.123537 +public,supplier_price,supplier_price_cost_dte_efctv,0,8,1407,{0.103\,0.0113333\,0.00766667\,0.00733333\,0.00733333\,0.007\,0.00633333\,0.006\,0.006\,0.00566667},0.200601 +public,supplier_price,supplier_price_dte_created,0,8,1718,{0.103\,0.0313333\,0.0163333\,0.0136667\,0.013\,0.009\,0.009\,0.00733333\,0.00633333\,0.00633333},0.236249 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+public,sku_price,price_tmpl_hdr_cde,0,4,1,{1},1 +public,sku_price,price_tmpl_hdr_reg,0,8,5,{0.211\,0.201667\,0.2\,0.2\,0.187333},-0.0265109 +public,sku_price,sku_price_curr_cost,0,12,3507,{0.007\,0.006\,0.00466667\,0.00433333\,0.004\,0.004\,0.004\,0.00366667\,0.00366667\,0.00333333},-0.10889 +public,sku_price,sku_price_stdcst_attr,0,24,2,{0.716667\,0.283333},0.484316 +public,sku_price,sku_price_misc_attr,0,24,10,{0.742333\,0.208333},0.593248 +public,sku_price,sku_price_cost_dte_efctv,0,8,468,{0.340333\,0.171667\,0.036\,0.0213333\,0.0153333\,0.0143333\,0.0126667\,0.012\,0.009\,0.00833333},0.0142753 +public,sku_price,sku_price_curr_rsp_ca,0,12,521,{0.0266667\,0.0236667\,0.0233333\,0.0223333\,0.0216667\,0.0193333\,0.018\,0.0176667\,0.0173333\,0.016},-0.0683204 +public,sku_price,sku_price_curr_rsp_cr,0,12,521,{0.0266667\,0.0236667\,0.0233333\,0.0223333\,0.0216667\,0.0193333\,0.018\,0.0176667\,0.0173333\,0.016},-0.0683643 +public,sku_price,sku_price_rsp_dte_efctv,0,8,468,{0.340333\,0.171667\,0.036\,0.0213333\,0.0153333\,0.0143333\,0.0126667\,0.012\,0.009\,0.00833333},0.0142753 +public,sku_price,sku_price_curr_tax_cde,0,5,3,{0.580667\,0.232\,0.187333},0.556641 +public,sku_price,sku_price_tax_dte_efctv,0,8,416,{0.253667\,0.171667\,0.151333\,0.0273333\,0.016\,0.0153333\,0.0143333\,0.0126667\,0.012\,0.009},0.0858765 +public,sku_price,sku_price_curr_stk_typ,0,6,7,{0.519333\,0.230667\,0.142},0.383167 +public,sku_price,sku_price_stk_dte_efctv,0,8,468,{0.340333\,0.171667\,0.036\,0.0213333\,0.0153333\,0.0143333\,0.0126667\,0.012\,0.009\,0.00833333},0.0142753 +public,sku_price,audit_id,0,4,392,{0.55\,0.171333\,0.0153333\,0.0136667\,0.0126667\,0.012\,0.00833333\,0.008\,0.00766667\,0.006},0.175806 + +--Multipart_Mon__11_Aug_2003_18:47:36_+0200_0856a3f0-- + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 14:17:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B75D1C516 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:14:14 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 14922-04 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:12:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from varlena.com (adsl-64-165-208-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net + [64.165.208.112]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00126D1C4B9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:14:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by varlena.com (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386), from userid 500) + id 0686A399D2; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:07:40 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:07:40 -0700 +From: elein +To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org +Cc: Tom Lane , elein +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +Message-ID: <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> +Mail-Followup-To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, + Tom Lane +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/639 +X-Sequence-Number: 42297 + +cassert was on. Now debug is on, too. +I updated from cvs-head just now. + +configure knows it is a linux box. +Should it be trying to link to libwsock32.so +or not? If this is a legitimate link, then +the problem is different than if it is trying +to link it in erroneously. + +--elein + +The is the top of the config.log +--------------------- +This file contains any messages produced by compilers while +running configure, to aid debugging if configure makes a mistake. + +It was created by PostgreSQL configure 7.4beta1, which was +generated by GNU Autoconf 2.53. Invocation command line was + + $ ./configure --prefix=/local/pghead --with-perl --with-python --enable-depend --enable-cassert --enable-d +ebug + +## --------- ## +## Platform. ## +## --------- ## + +hostname = cookie +uname -m = i686 +uname -r = 2.4.16-4GB +uname -s = Linux +uname -v = #1 Mon Apr 15 08:57:26 GMT 2002 +--------------------- + + +$ gdb postmaster +GNU gdb 20010316 +Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc. +GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are +welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. +Type "show copying" to see the conditions. +There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. +This GDB was configured as "i386-suse-linux"... +(gdb) run -i -D /local/pghead/data +Starting program: /local/pghead/bin/postmaster -i -D /local/pghead/data + +Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. +0x40099ac5 in dllname () from /usr/lib/libwsock32.so +(gdb) bt +#0 0x40099ac5 in dllname () from /usr/lib/libwsock32.so +#1 0x081218b1 in StreamServerPort (family=0, hostName=0x0, portNumber=5432, unixSocketName=0x82d6e68 "", + ListenSocket=0x829b420, MaxListen=10) at pqcomm.c:279 +#2 0x08150a26 in PostmasterMain (argc=4, argv=0x82cfae8) at postmaster.c:765 +#3 0x081233e3 in main (argc=4, argv=0xbffff414) at main.c:215 +#4 0x4010e7ee in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6 + + +On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 11:54:39AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: +> elein writes: +> > This is as far as I've gotten with 7.4. +> +> Would you rebuild with --enable-debug (perhaps also --enable-cassert) +> so that the gdb backtrace is more informative? +> +> Also, it seems likely that the issue is in or around the recently-added +> IPv6 support, so I'd suggest using CVS tip or last night's snapshot +> rather than the beta1 tarball. We've already made some portability +> fixes there since beta1. +> +> regards, tom lane +> + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 14:31:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFAFCD1C4DB + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:31:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 24658-03 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:29:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C586D1C4B9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:31:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BHTJSa003856; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) +To: elein +Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, elein , + Bruce Momjian +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +In-reply-to: <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> +Comments: In-reply-to elein + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:07:40 -0700" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:29:19 -0400 +Message-ID: <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/641 +X-Sequence-Number: 42299 + +elein writes: +> configure knows it is a linux box. +> Should it be trying to link to libwsock32.so +> or not? If this is a legitimate link, then +> the problem is different than if it is trying +> to link it in erroneously. + +configure is unconditionally including libwsock32 if it can find one. +AFAICT from the CVS logs, this was only expected to happen on win32 +(Bruce, that was your commit, configure.in v1.250; please confirm). +So it would probably make sense to not look for libwsock32 unless +PORTNAME is "win32". + +I take it you actually have a libwsock32? What's it supposed to do? + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 14:51:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EABED1C4BA + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:51:20 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26483-02 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:49:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from varlena.com (adsl-64-165-208-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net + [64.165.208.112]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E75CD1C4DB + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:51:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by varlena.com (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386), from userid 500) + id 009C2399D2; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:44:47 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:44:47 -0700 +From: elein +To: Tom Lane +Cc: elein , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, + elein , Bruce Momjian +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +Message-ID: <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> +Mail-Followup-To: Tom Lane , + elein , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, + Bruce Momjian +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/643 +X-Sequence-Number: 42301 + +Yes, I actually have a libwsock32 because my +system has wine on it. Wine is a windows +emulator. + +So the assumption that any system with that +file is a windows system will break on +systems with windows emulators. + +It sounds like Joe's guess on this was right. + +--elein + + +On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 01:29:19PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: +> elein writes: +> > configure knows it is a linux box. +> > Should it be trying to link to libwsock32.so +> > or not? If this is a legitimate link, then +> > the problem is different than if it is trying +> > to link it in erroneously. +> +> configure is unconditionally including libwsock32 if it can find one. +> AFAICT from the CVS logs, this was only expected to happen on win32 +> (Bruce, that was your commit, configure.in v1.250; please confirm). +> So it would probably make sense to not look for libwsock32 unless +> PORTNAME is "win32". +> +> I take it you actually have a libwsock32? What's it supposed to do? +> +> regards, tom lane +> + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 20:52:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26BD5D1C4B9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:59:55 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 25565-04 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:58:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from varlena.com (adsl-64-165-208-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net + [64.165.208.112]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5826BD1C4BA + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:59:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by varlena.com (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386), from userid 500) + id 09574399D2; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:53:23 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:53:22 -0700 +From: elein +To: Tom Lane +Cc: elein , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, + elein , Bruce Momjian +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +Message-ID: <20030811105322.I2396@cookie> +Mail-Followup-To: Tom Lane , + elein , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, + Bruce Momjian +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> <4146.1060624411@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <4146.1060624411@sss.pgh.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/659 +X-Sequence-Number: 42317 + +I blame SuSE. + +Thank you for the fix and confirmation of the problem. + +elein + +On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 01:53:31PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: +> elein writes: +> > Yes, I actually have a libwsock32 because my +> > system has wine on it. Wine is a windows +> > emulator. +> +> And they drop windows-only libraries into /usr/lib? Yech. +> +> Anyway, I can't see a need to include libwsock32 on non-win32 platforms. +> Will modify configure. +> +> regards, tom lane +> + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 14:55:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30C4D1C4DB + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:55:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26327-03 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:53:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D800DD1C4B9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:55:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BHrWSa004147; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:53:32 -0400 (EDT) +To: elein +Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, elein , + Bruce Momjian +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +In-reply-to: <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> +Comments: In-reply-to elein + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:44:47 -0700" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:53:31 -0400 +Message-ID: <4146.1060624411@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/644 +X-Sequence-Number: 42302 + +elein writes: +> Yes, I actually have a libwsock32 because my +> system has wine on it. Wine is a windows +> emulator. + +And they drop windows-only libraries into /usr/lib? Yech. + +Anyway, I can't see a need to include libwsock32 on non-win32 platforms. +Will modify configure. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 15:19:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA71ED1F41A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:18:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 30319-02 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:16:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CF3D1F437 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:16:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BIEvSa005070; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:14:58 -0400 (EDT) +To: elein +Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, elein , + Bruce Momjian +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +In-reply-to: <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> +Comments: In-reply-to elein + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:44:47 -0700" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:14:57 -0400 +Message-ID: <5069.1060625697@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/645 +X-Sequence-Number: 42303 + +elein writes: +> It sounds like Joe's guess on this was right. + +I've committed this fix in configure.in: + +*************** +*** 631,637 **** + AC_CHECK_LIB(gen, main) + AC_CHECK_LIB(PW, main) + AC_CHECK_LIB(resolv, main) +- AC_CHECK_LIB(wsock32, main) + AC_SEARCH_LIBS(getopt_long, [getopt gnugetopt]) + # QNX: + AC_CHECK_LIB(unix, main) +--- 636,641 ---- +*************** +*** 645,650 **** +--- 649,659 ---- + AC_SEARCH_LIBS(fdatasync, [rt posix4]) + # Cygwin: + AC_CHECK_LIB(cygipc, shmget) ++ # WIN32: ++ if test "$PORTNAME" = "win32" ++ then ++ AC_CHECK_LIB(wsock32, main) ++ fi + + if test "$with_readline" = yes; then + PGAC_CHECK_READLINE + + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 15:26:36 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A069ED1C510 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:26:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 29802-07 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:25:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CECCD1C4E7 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:26:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BIP4Sa005168; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:25:04 -0400 (EDT) +To: Stef +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Analyze makes queries slow... +In-reply-to: <20030811184736.7e191a86.svb@ucs.co.za> +References: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> + <2934.1060616625@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811184736.7e191a86.svb@ucs.co.za> +Comments: In-reply-to Stef + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:47:36 +0200" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:25:03 -0400 +Message-ID: <5167.1060626303@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/172 +X-Sequence-Number: 2989 + +Stef writes: +> => Could we see the results of "EXPLAIN ANALYZE", rather than just EXPLAIN, +> => for the un-analyzed case? + +> Attached the output of this. + +Hmm... not immediately obvious where it's going wrong. Could you try +this (after ANALYZE): + + set enable_mergejoin to off; + explain analyze ... query ... + +If it finishes in a reasonable amount of time, send the explain output. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 15:51:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27F9D1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:51:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 30212-07 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:50:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A24D1C510 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:51:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BIoLSa005399; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:50:21 -0400 (EDT) +To: Stef +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Analyze makes queries slow... +In-reply-to: <20030811184736.7e191a86.svb@ucs.co.za> +References: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> + <2934.1060616625@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811184736.7e191a86.svb@ucs.co.za> +Comments: In-reply-to Stef + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:47:36 +0200" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:50:21 -0400 +Message-ID: <5398.1060627821@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/173 +X-Sequence-Number: 2990 + +Stef writes: +> => And what PG version is this, exactly? + +> PostgreSQL 7.3.1 + +Ah, I think I see it: you are getting burnt by a mergejoin estimation +bug that was fixed in 7.3.2. Please update (you might as well go to +7.3.4 while you're at it) and see if the results improve. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 15:53:48 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64BA6D1C513 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:53:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 30437-06 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:52:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [65.217.53.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FF9D1C4E1 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:53:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from thorn.mmrd.com (thorn.mmrd.com [172.25.10.100]) + by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7BHZoqd002917; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:35:55 -0400 +Received: from gnvex001.mmrd.com (gnvex001.mmrd.com [192.168.3.55]) + by thorn.mmrd.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7BIrDZ02157; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:53:13 -0400 +Received: from camel.mmrd.com ([172.25.5.213]) by gnvex001.mmrd.com with SMTP + (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) + id 34AD3TYX; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:53:10 -0400 +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +From: Robert Treat +To: elein +Cc: Tom Lane , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, + elein , Bruce Momjian +In-Reply-To: <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 +Date: 11 Aug 2003 14:53:12 -0400 +Message-Id: <1060627992.22260.2229.camel@camel> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/646 +X-Sequence-Number: 42304 + +On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 13:44, elein wrote: +> Yes, I actually have a libwsock32 because my +> system has wine on it. Wine is a windows +> emulator. +> + +Wine Is Not an Emulator :-) + +Robert Treat +-- +PostgreSQL :: The Enterprise Open Source Database + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 18:18:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70183D1C47A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:17:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 36565-09 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:16:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964E9D1C4E6 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:17:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3502938 for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:16:52 -0700 +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:15:07 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; + boundary="------------Boundary-00=_7D4H7BB7TC4QPTKGRV3B" +Message-Id: <200308111415.07751.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/174 +X-Sequence-Number: 2991 + +--------------Boundary-00=_7D4H7BB7TC4QPTKGRV3B +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Folks: + +I have a live and a test database for an in-production system running on=20 +7.2.4. + +The test database is a copy of the live one. They are running on the same= +=20 +copy of Postgres, on the same server. I use the test database to test=20 +changes before I apply them to the production system. Periodically (like= +=20 +today) I reload the test system from the backup of the live one. + +I'm now having a problem with a huge complex query which runs very slowly o= +n=20 +the test database, but very quickly on the live database! The problems=20 +seems to be that the test database seems to think that a nested loop is an= +=20 +appropriate strategy for a table of 140,000 records, while the live one=20 +realizes that it's not. + +What really has me scratching my head is that the test database is an exact= +=20 +copy of the live database, just a few hours older. And the live database h= +as=20 +never displayed this performance problem, whereas the test database has had= +=20 +it for 2-3 weeks. + +Both EXPLAIN ANALYZEs are attached. + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + +--------------Boundary-00=_7D4H7BB7TC4QPTKGRV3B +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii"; + name="perf_prob_live.txt" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="perf_prob_live.txt" + +Sort (cost=57376.11..57376.11 rows=1 width=627) (actual time=370.48..370.48 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=57049.91..57376.10 rows=1 width=627) (actual time=360.99..369.81 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=57049.91..57372.18 rows=1 width=583) (actual time=314.97..320.96 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=57049.91..57368.25 rows=1 width=539) (actual time=314.90..320.56 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=57049.91..57365.27 rows=1 width=525) (actual time=314.42..317.60 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=57049.91..57361.78 rows=1 width=497) (actual time=314.35..317.10 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=57049.91..57357.83 rows=1 width=436) (actual time=314.27..316.53 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=57049.91..57050.46 rows=77 width=424) (actual time=314.02..314.77 rows=26 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=57048.31..57048.31 rows=37 width=406) (actual time=313.76..313.78 rows=27 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=57019.29..57047.82 rows=37 width=406) (actual time=311.61..313.63 rows=27 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using locations_pkey on locations (cost=0.00..27.54 rows=568 width=107) (actual time=0.22..1.55 rows=172 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=57019.29..57019.29 rows=37 width=299) (actual time=311.34..311.35 rows=27 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=5.73..57018.80 rows=37 width=299) (actual time=44.24..311.12 rows=27 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=4.61..57015.58 rows=745 width=274) (actual time=3.30..308.58 rows=965 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using idx_events_date on events (cost=0.00..57004.46 rows=745 width=240) (actual time=2.54..296.46 rows=965 loops=1) + SubPlan + -> Nested Loop (cost=5.48..19.48 rows=1 width=55) (actual time=0.05..0.05 rows=0 loops=856) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..12.52 rows=1 width=23) (actual time=0.03..0.04 rows=0 loops=856) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..7.41 rows=1 width=12) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=856) + -> Index Scan using trial_groups_pkey on trial_groups (cost=0.00..3.49 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=0 loops=856) + -> Index Scan using idx_cases_tgroup on cases (cost=0.00..3.92 rows=1 width=8) (actual time=0.02..0.04 rows=4 loops=133) + -> Index Scan using idx_caseclients_case on case_clients (cost=0.00..5.10 rows=1 width=11) (actual time=0.03..0.04 rows=1 loops=471) + -> Materialize (cost=6.95..6.95 rows=1 width=32) (actual time=0.00..0.00 rows=3 loops=366) + -> Nested Loop (cost=5.48..6.95 rows=1 width=32) (actual time=0.58..0.81 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=5.48..5.50 rows=1 width=30) (actual time=0.55..0.56 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=4.04..4.04 rows=2 width=28) (actual time=0.39..0.39 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=3.99..4.03 rows=2 width=28) (actual time=0.31..0.32 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.34..1.34 rows=21 width=8) (actual time=0.12..0.12 rows=2 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on text_lists (cost=0.00..1.10 rows=21 width=8) (actual time=0.01..0.06 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=2.65..2.65 rows=2 width=20) (actual time=0.18..0.18 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on list_values (cost=0.00..2.65 rows=2 width=20) (actual time=0.01..0.15 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.45..1.45 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.13..0.13 rows=5 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status s1 (cost=0.00..1.44 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.01..0.09 rows=4 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status s2 (cost=0.00..1.44 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.01..0.07 rows=3 loops=3) + -> Nested Loop (cost=5.48..16.00 rows=1 width=47) (actual time=0.06..0.06 rows=0 loops=3325) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..9.05 rows=1 width=15) (actual time=0.05..0.06 rows=1 loops=3325) + -> Index Scan using cases_pkey on cases (cost=0.00..3.94 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=1 loops=3325) + -> Index Scan using idx_caseclients_case on case_clients (cost=0.00..5.10 rows=1 width=11) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=3311) + -> Materialize (cost=6.95..6.95 rows=1 width=32) (actual time=0.00..0.00 rows=2 loops=2190) + -> Nested Loop (cost=5.48..6.95 rows=1 width=32) (actual time=0.63..0.85 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=5.48..5.50 rows=1 width=30) (actual time=0.59..0.60 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=4.04..4.04 rows=2 width=28) (actual time=0.43..0.43 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=3.99..4.03 rows=2 width=28) (actual time=0.35..0.36 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.34..1.34 rows=21 width=8) (actual time=0.14..0.14 rows=2 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on text_lists (cost=0.00..1.10 rows=21 width=8) (actual time=0.02..0.06 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=2.65..2.65 rows=2 width=20) (actual time=0.19..0.20 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on list_values (cost=0.00..2.65 rows=2 width=20) (actual time=0.02..0.17 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.45..1.45 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.14..0.14 rows=5 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status s1 (cost=0.00..1.44 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.02..0.10 rows=4 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status s2 (cost=0.00..1.44 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.01..0.07 rows=3 loops=3) + -> Hash (cost=4.49..4.49 rows=97 width=34) (actual time=0.52..0.52 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on event_types (cost=0.00..4.49 rows=97 width=34) (actual time=0.06..0.38 rows=97 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=1.12..1.12 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.09..0.09 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on event_cats (cost=0.00..1.12 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.07..0.08 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.61..1.61 rows=10 width=18) (actual time=0.21..0.23 rows=30 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status (cost=0.00..1.52 rows=10 width=18) (actual time=0.04..0.12 rows=9 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using event_days_pk on event_days (cost=0.00..3.96 rows=1 width=12) (actual time=0.05..0.05 rows=0 loops=26) + -> Index Scan using cases_pkey on cases (cost=0.00..3.94 rows=1 width=61) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=0 loops=8) + -> Index Scan using trial_groups_pkey on trial_groups (cost=0.00..3.49 rows=1 width=28) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=0 loops=8) + -> Seq Scan on opp_counsel (cost=0.00..2.44 rows=87 width=14) (actual time=0.01..0.18 rows=87 loops=8) + -> Index Scan using events_pkey on events parent (cost=0.00..3.92 rows=1 width=44) (actual time=0.00..0.00 rows=0 loops=8) + -> Index Scan using events_pkey on events previous (cost=0.00..3.92 rows=1 width=44) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=0 loops=8) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=9.01..9.01 rows=1 width=23) (actual time=0.35..0.35 rows=1 loops=4) + -> Index Scan using idx_cases_tgroup on cases c1 (cost=0.00..9.01 rows=1 width=23) (actual time=0.08..0.23 rows=4 loops=4) + SubPlan + -> Index Scan using idx_caseclients_case on case_clients cc1 (cost=0.00..5.09 rows=1 width=7) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=22) +Total runtime: 373.70 msec + +--------------Boundary-00=_7D4H7BB7TC4QPTKGRV3B +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii"; + name="perf_prob_test.txt" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="perf_prob_test.txt" + +Sort (cost=8725694.92..8725694.92 rows=1 width=625) (actual time=266461.38..266461.38 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=8725228.42..8725694.91 rows=1 width=625) (actual time=266452.64..266461.09 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=8725228.42..8725691.01 rows=1 width=581) (actual time=266442.99..266448.67 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=8725228.42..8725687.12 rows=1 width=537) (actual time=266442.93..266448.29 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=8725228.42..8725684.14 rows=1 width=523) (actual time=266442.45..266445.48 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=8725228.42..8725680.64 rows=1 width=495) (actual time=266442.38..266444.99 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=8725228.42..8725676.67 rows=1 width=434) (actual time=266442.30..266444.43 rows=8 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=8725228.42..8725229.20 rows=113 width=422) (actual time=266442.08..266442.77 rows=26 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=8725226.81..8725226.81 rows=54 width=404) (actual time=266441.54..266441.56 rows=27 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=8725197.37..8725226.03 rows=54 width=404) (actual time=266439.42..266441.41 rows=27 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using locations_pkey on locations (cost=0.00..27.54 rows=568 width=107) (actual time=0.14..1.44 rows=172 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=8725197.37..8725197.37 rows=54 width=297) (actual time=266439.24..266439.25 rows=27 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=5.73..8725196.59 rows=54 width=297) (actual time=28490.20..266438.99 rows=27 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=4.60..8725192.42 rows=1083 width=272) (actual time=2.25..266436.04 rows=964 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using idx_events_date on events (cost=0.00..8725178.35 rows=1083 width=238) (actual time=1.49..266421.59 rows=964 loops=1) + SubPlan + -> Hash Join (cost=89.59..3792.14 rows=1 width=55) (actual time=311.23..311.23 rows=0 loops=855) + -> Hash Join (cost=82.64..3784.86 rows=88 width=23) (actual time=301.99..310.66 rows=0 loops=855) + -> Seq Scan on case_clients (cost=0.00..3673.48 rows=11274 width=11) (actual time=0.02..302.20 rows=8822 loops=855) + -> Hash (cost=81.53..81.53 rows=887 width=12) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=0 loops=855) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..81.53 rows=887 width=12) (actual time=0.03..0.04 rows=1 loops=855) + -> Index Scan using trial_groups_pkey on trial_groups (cost=0.00..3.49 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=0 loops=855) + -> Index Scan using idx_cases_tgroup on cases (cost=0.00..77.77 rows=43 width=8) (actual time=0.03..0.07 rows=6 loops=133) + -> Hash (cost=6.95..6.95 rows=1 width=32) (actual time=0.30..0.30 rows=0 loops=855) + -> Nested Loop (cost=5.48..6.95 rows=1 width=32) (actual time=0.06..0.30 rows=3 loops=855) + -> Merge Join (cost=5.48..5.50 rows=1 width=30) (actual time=0.02..0.04 rows=3 loops=855) + -> Sort (cost=4.04..4.04 rows=2 width=28) (actual time=0.00..0.00 rows=3 loops=855) + -> Merge Join (cost=3.99..4.03 rows=2 width=28) (actual time=0.30..0.30 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.34..1.34 rows=21 width=8) (actual time=0.11..0.11 rows=2 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on text_lists (cost=0.00..1.10 rows=21 width=8) (actual time=0.01..0.05 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=2.65..2.65 rows=2 width=20) (actual time=0.18..0.18 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on list_values (cost=0.00..2.65 rows=2 width=20) (actual time=0.01..0.14 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.45..1.45 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.00..0.00 rows=5 loops=855) + -> Seq Scan on status s1 (cost=0.00..1.44 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.01..0.08 rows=4 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status s2 (cost=0.00..1.44 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.01..0.07 rows=3 loops=2565) + -> Nested Loop (cost=5.48..15.71 rows=1 width=47) (actual time=0.07..0.07 rows=0 loops=3312) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.76 rows=1 width=15) (actual time=0.06..0.07 rows=1 loops=3312) + -> Index Scan using cases_pkey on cases (cost=0.00..3.96 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=1 loops=3312) + -> Index Scan using idx_caseclients_case on case_clients (cost=0.00..4.79 rows=1 width=11) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=3298) + -> Materialize (cost=6.95..6.95 rows=1 width=32) (actual time=0.00..0.00 rows=2 loops=2182) + -> Nested Loop (cost=5.48..6.95 rows=1 width=32) (actual time=0.68..0.89 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=5.48..5.50 rows=1 width=30) (actual time=0.64..0.66 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=4.04..4.04 rows=2 width=28) (actual time=0.50..0.50 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Merge Join (cost=3.99..4.03 rows=2 width=28) (actual time=0.42..0.43 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.34..1.34 rows=21 width=8) (actual time=0.16..0.16 rows=2 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on text_lists (cost=0.00..1.10 rows=21 width=8) (actual time=0.06..0.09 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=2.65..2.65 rows=2 width=20) (actual time=0.24..0.24 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on list_values (cost=0.00..2.65 rows=2 width=20) (actual time=0.06..0.20 rows=3 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.45..1.45 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.12..0.12 rows=5 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status s1 (cost=0.00..1.44 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.01..0.09 rows=4 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status s2 (cost=0.00..1.44 rows=3 width=2) (actual time=0.01..0.07 rows=3 loops=3) + -> Hash (cost=4.48..4.48 rows=96 width=34) (actual time=0.51..0.51 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on event_types (cost=0.00..4.48 rows=96 width=34) (actual time=0.05..0.36 rows=96 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=1.12..1.12 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.08..0.08 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on event_cats (cost=0.00..1.12 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.06..0.07 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1.61..1.61 rows=10 width=18) (actual time=0.49..0.51 rows=30 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on status (cost=0.00..1.52 rows=10 width=18) (actual time=0.05..0.14 rows=9 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using event_days_pk on event_days (cost=0.00..3.96 rows=1 width=12) (actual time=0.05..0.05 rows=0 loops=26) + -> Index Scan using cases_pkey on cases (cost=0.00..3.96 rows=1 width=61) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=0 loops=8) + -> Index Scan using trial_groups_pkey on trial_groups (cost=0.00..3.49 rows=1 width=28) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=0 loops=8) + -> Seq Scan on opp_counsel (cost=0.00..2.44 rows=87 width=14) (actual time=0.01..0.17 rows=87 loops=8) + -> Index Scan using events_pkey on events parent (cost=0.00..3.89 rows=1 width=44) (actual time=0.00..0.00 rows=0 loops=8) + -> Index Scan using events_pkey on events previous (cost=0.00..3.89 rows=1 width=44) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=0 loops=8) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=283.08..283.08 rows=1 width=23) (actual time=0.33..0.33 rows=1 loops=4) + -> Index Scan using idx_cases_tgroup on cases c1 (cost=0.00..283.05 rows=21 width=23) (actual time=0.08..0.23 rows=4 loops=4) + SubPlan + -> Index Scan using idx_caseclients_case on case_clients cc1 (cost=0.00..4.78 rows=1 width=7) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=22) +Total runtime: 266463.54 msec + +--------------Boundary-00=_7D4H7BB7TC4QPTKGRV3B-- + + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 18:46:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C99BD1C4DF + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:46:36 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49113-07 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:45:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CA2D1C47A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:46:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7BLjtu03603; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:45:55 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308112145.h7BLjtu03603@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Windows on SuSE? 7.4 +In-Reply-To: <5069.1060625697@sss.pgh.pa.us> +To: Tom Lane +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:45:55 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: elein , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org, + elein +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/651 +X-Sequence-Number: 42309 + + +Yes, this is the right fix. I never suspected wsock32 would exist on a +non-MS WIn machine. + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +Tom Lane wrote: +> elein writes: +> > It sounds like Joe's guess on this was right. +> +> I've committed this fix in configure.in: +> +> *************** +> *** 631,637 **** +> AC_CHECK_LIB(gen, main) +> AC_CHECK_LIB(PW, main) +> AC_CHECK_LIB(resolv, main) +> - AC_CHECK_LIB(wsock32, main) +> AC_SEARCH_LIBS(getopt_long, [getopt gnugetopt]) +> # QNX: +> AC_CHECK_LIB(unix, main) +> --- 636,641 ---- +> *************** +> *** 645,650 **** +> --- 649,659 ---- +> AC_SEARCH_LIBS(fdatasync, [rt posix4]) +> # Cygwin: +> AC_CHECK_LIB(cygipc, shmget) +> + # WIN32: +> + if test "$PORTNAME" = "win32" +> + then +> + AC_CHECK_LIB(wsock32, main) +> + fi +> +> if test "$with_readline" = yes; then +> PGAC_CHECK_READLINE +> +> +> regards, tom lane +> + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 19:05:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32A42D1C47A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:05:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 44393-06 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:03:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A67D1C4DF + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:05:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3503125 for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:05:31 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:03:46 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: <200308111415.07751.josh@agliodbs.com> +In-Reply-To: <200308111415.07751.josh@agliodbs.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308111503.46794.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/175 +X-Sequence-Number: 2992 + +Folks, + +More followup on this: + +The crucial difference between the two execution plans is this clause: + +test db has: +-> Seq Scan on case_clients (cost=3D0.00..3673.48 rows=3D11274 width=3D11= +) (actual=20 +time=3D0.02..302.20 rows=3D8822 loops=3D855) + +whereas live db has: +-> Index Scan using idx_caseclients_case on case_clients (cost=3D0.00..5.= +10=20 +rows=3D1 width=3D11) (actual time=3D0.03..0.04 rows=3D1 loops=3D471) + +using an enable_seqscan =3D false fixes this, but is obviously not a long-t= +erm=20 +solution.=20=20=20 + +I've re-created the test system from an immediate copy of the live database= +,=20 +and checked that the the main tables and indexes were reproduced faithfully. + +Lowering random_page_cost seems to do the trick. But I'm still mystified; = +why=20 +would one identical database pick a different plan than its copy? + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 19:21:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6CFD1C4E6 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:17:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 52251-02 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:15:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C5BD1C4DF + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:16:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7BMGiF06162; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:16:44 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308112216.h7BMGiF06162@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: +To: "scott.marlowe" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:16:44 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/176 +X-Sequence-Number: 2993 + +scott.marlowe wrote: +> On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Andrew Sullivan wrote: +> +> > On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:40:20AM -0700, Jonathan Gardner wrote: +> > > +> > > Redhat puts ext3 on by default. Consider switching to a non-journaling FS +> > > (ext2?) with the partition that holds your data and WAL. +> > +> > I would give you exactly the opposite advice: _never_ use a +> > non-journalling fs for your data and WAL. I suppose if you can +> > afford to lose some transactions, you can do without journalling. +> > Otherwise, you're just borrowing trouble, near as I can tell. +> +> I'd argue that a reliable filesystem (ext2) is still better than a +> questionable journaling filesystem (ext3 on kernels <2.4.20). +> +> This isn't saying to not use jounraling, but I would definitely test it +> under load first to make sure it's not gonna lose data or get corrupted. + +That _would_ work if ext2 was a reliable file system --- it is not. + +This is the problem of Linux file systems --- they have unreliable, and +journalled, with nothing in between, except using a journalling file +system and having it only journal metadata. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 19:42:44 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79463D1C4E6 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:42:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49668-08 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:41:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD0CD1C4E3 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:42:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.1] ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030811224233.UHNZ23518.lakemtao03.cox.net@[192.168.1.1]> + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:42:33 -0400 +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <200308111503.46794.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: <200308111415.07751.josh@agliodbs.com> + <200308111503.46794.josh@agliodbs.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1060641748.23325.62.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 11 Aug 2003 17:42:28 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/177 +X-Sequence-Number: 2994 + +On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 17:03, Josh Berkus wrote: +> Folks, +> +> More followup on this: +> +> The crucial difference between the two execution plans is this clause: +> +> test db has: +> -> Seq Scan on case_clients (cost=0.00..3673.48 rows=11274 width=11) (actual +> time=0.02..302.20 rows=8822 loops=855) +> +> whereas live db has: +> -> Index Scan using idx_caseclients_case on case_clients (cost=0.00..5.10 +> rows=1 width=11) (actual time=0.03..0.04 rows=1 loops=471) +> +> using an enable_seqscan = false fixes this, but is obviously not a long-term +> solution. +> +> I've re-created the test system from an immediate copy of the live database, +> and checked that the the main tables and indexes were reproduced faithfully. +> +> Lowering random_page_cost seems to do the trick. But I'm still mystified; why +> would one identical database pick a different plan than its copy? + +If the databases are on different machines, maybe the postgres.conf +or pg_hba.conf files are different, and the buffer counts is affect- +ing the optimizer? + +-- ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "Man, I'm pretty. Hoo Hah!" | +| Johnny Bravo | ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 19:49:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D13D1C950 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:49:54 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 55751-01 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:48:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417D4D1C4DF + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:49:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3503293; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:49:54 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Ron Johnson , + PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:48:09 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: <200308111415.07751.josh@agliodbs.com> + <200308111503.46794.josh@agliodbs.com> + <1060641748.23325.62.camel@haggis> +In-Reply-To: <1060641748.23325.62.camel@haggis> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308111548.09684.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/178 +X-Sequence-Number: 2995 + +Ron, + +> If the databases are on different machines, maybe the postgres.conf +> or pg_hba.conf files are different, and the buffer counts is affect- +> ing the optimizer? + +The databases are on the same machine, using the same postmaster. + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 19:52:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE771D1C4DF + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:52:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 51146-10 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:51:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail10.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.210]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E995CD1C47A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:52:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 21196 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2003 22:52:26 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO pdarley) ([64.81.9.230]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail10.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 11 Aug 2003 22:52:26 -0000 +From: "Peter Darley" +To: , "Ron Johnson" , + "PgSQL Performance ML" +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:51:42 -0700 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) +Importance: Normal +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 +In-Reply-To: <200308111548.09684.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/179 +X-Sequence-Number: 2996 + +Josh, + I'm sure that you've thought of this, but it sounds like you may not have +done an analyze in your new DB. +Thanks, +Peter Darley + +-----Original Message----- +From: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org +[mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Josh Berkus +Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:48 PM +To: Ron Johnson; PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Odd problem with performance in duplicate +database + + +Ron, + +> If the databases are on different machines, maybe the postgres.conf +> or pg_hba.conf files are different, and the buffer counts is affect- +> ing the optimizer? + +The databases are on the same machine, using the same postmaster. + +-- +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command + (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org) + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 19:56:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC8CAD1C47A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:56:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 54129-05 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:55:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from djinn.gene.com (djinn-open.gene.COM [192.12.78.2]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74214D1C4DF + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:56:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from tallac.gene.com (tallac.gene.com [128.137.116.213]) + by djinn.gene.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BMu8De103167; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:56:11 -0700 (PDT) +Received: by tallac.gene.com (Postfix, from userid 13922) + id B7E404B9BD; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:56:07 -0700 (PDT) +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +From: Reece Hart +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +In-Reply-To: <200308112216.h7BMGiF06162@candle.pha.pa.us> +References: <200308112216.h7BMGiF06162@candle.pha.pa.us> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-DAkHNnrjCBmUJ+YtkGfN" +Organization: Genentech, Inc. +Message-Id: <1060642567.15483.220.camel@tallac> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:56:07 -0700 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/180 +X-Sequence-Number: 2997 + +--=-DAkHNnrjCBmUJ+YtkGfN +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 15:16, Bruce Momjian wrote: + +> That _would_ work if ext2 was a reliable file system --- it is not. + + +Bruce- + +I'd like to know your evidence for this. I'm not refuting it, but I'm a +>7 year linux user (including several clusters, all of which have run +ext2 or ext3) and keep a fairly close ear to kernel newsgroups, +announcements, and changelogs. I am aware that there have very +occasionally been corruption problems, but my understanding is that +these are fixed (and quickly). In any case, I'd say that your assertion +is not widely known and I'd appreciate some data or references. + +As for PostgreSQL on ext2 and ext3, I recently switched from ext3 to +ext2 (Stephen Tweedy was insightful to facilitate this backward +compatibility). I did this because I had a 45M row update on one table +that was taking inordinate time (killed after 10 hours), even though +creating the database from backup takes ~4 hours including indexing (see +pgsql-perform post on 2003/07/22). CPU usage was ~2% on an otherwise +unloaded, fast, SCSI160 machine. vmstat io suggested that PostgreSQL was +writing something on the order of 100x as many blocks as being read. My +untested interpretation was that the update bookkeeping as well as data +update were all getting journalled, the journal space would fill, get +sync'd, then repeat. In effect, all blocks were being written TWICE just +for the journalling, never mind the overhead for PostgreSQL +transactions. This emphasizes that journals probably work best with +short burst writes and syncing during lulls rather than sustained +writes. + +I ended up solving the update issue without really updating, so ext2 +timings aren't known. So, you may want to test this yourself if you're +concerned. + +-Reece + + +-- +Reece Hart, Ph.D. rkh@gene.com, http://www.gene.com/ +Genentech, Inc. 650/225-6133 (voice), -5389 (fax) +Bioinformatics and Protein Engineering +1 DNA Way, MS-93 http://www.in-machina.com/~reece/ +South San Francisco, CA 94080-4990 reece@in-machina.com, GPG: 0x25EC91A0 + +--=-DAkHNnrjCBmUJ+YtkGfN +Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 + + + + + + + + +On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 15:16, Bruce Momjian wrote: +
+
That _would_ work if ext2 was a reliable file system --- it is not.
+
+
+Bruce-
+
+I'd like to know your evidence for this. I'm not refuting it, but I'm a >7 year linux user (including several clusters, all of which have run ext2 or ext3) and keep a fairly close ear to kernel newsgroups, announcements, and changelogs. I am aware that there have very occasionally been corruption problems, but my understanding is that these are fixed (and quickly). In any case, I'd say that your assertion is not widely known and I'd appreciate some data or references.
+
+As for PostgreSQL on ext2 and ext3, I recently switched from ext3 to ext2 (Stephen Tweedy was insightful to facilitate this backward compatibility). I did this because I had a 45M row update on one table that was taking inordinate time (killed after 10 hours), even though creating the database from backup takes ~4 hours including indexing (see pgsql-perform post on 2003/07/22). CPU usage was ~2% on an otherwise unloaded, fast, SCSI160 machine. vmstat io suggested that PostgreSQL was writing something on the order of 100x as many blocks as being read. My untested interpretation was that the update bookkeeping as well as data update were all getting journalled, the journal space would fill, get sync'd, then repeat. In effect, all blocks were being written TWICE just for the journalling, never mind the overhead for PostgreSQL transactions. This emphasizes that journals probably work best with short burst writes and syncing during lulls rather than sustained writes.
+
+I ended up solving the update issue without really updating, so ext2 timings aren't known. So, you may want to test this yourself if you're concerned.
+
+-Reece
+
+

+
+
+
+

+
-- 
+Reece Hart, Ph.D.                       rkh@gene.com, http://www.gene.com/
+Genentech, Inc.                         650/225-6133 (voice), -5389 (fax)
+Bioinformatics and Protein Engineering
+1 DNA Way, MS-93                        http://www.in-machina.com/~reece/
+South San Francisco, CA  94080-4990     reece@in-machina.com, GPG: 0x25EC91A0

+

+
+ + + +--=-DAkHNnrjCBmUJ+YtkGfN-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 20:00:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D433ED1C47A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:00:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 55158-02 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:59:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AA8D1C7F1 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:00:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3503341 for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:00:54 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:59:09 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308111559.09924.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/182 +X-Sequence-Number: 2999 + +Peter, + +> I'm sure that you've thought of this, but it sounds like you may not have +> done an analyze in your new DB. + +Yes. Also a VACUUM. Also forcing a REINDEX on the major involved tables. + +Also running counts on the pg_* system tables to see if any objects did not= +=20 +get restored from the backup as compared with the live database. + +By everything I can measure, the live database and the test are identical; = +yet=20 +the test does not think that idx_caseclients_case is very accessable, and t= +he=20 +live database knows it is. + +Is this perhaps a bug with ANALYZE statistics in 7.2.4? I know that in tha= +t=20 +version I don't have the option of increasing the statistics sampling ... + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 19:59:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1C3BD1C927 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:59:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 55751-02 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:58:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B09D1C4DF + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:59:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7BMxUo14439; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:59:30 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308112259.h7BMxUo14439@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <1060642567.15483.220.camel@tallac> +To: Reece Hart +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:59:30 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/181 +X-Sequence-Number: 2998 + + +Uh, the ext2 developers say it isn't 100% reliable --- at least that is +that was told. I don't know any personally, but I mentioned it while I +was visiting Red Hat, and they didn't refute it. + +Now, the failure window might be quite small, but I have seen it happen +myself, and have heard it from others. + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +Reece Hart wrote: +> On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 15:16, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> +> > That _would_ work if ext2 was a reliable file system --- it is not. +> +> +> Bruce- +> +> I'd like to know your evidence for this. I'm not refuting it, but I'm a +> >7 year linux user (including several clusters, all of which have run +> ext2 or ext3) and keep a fairly close ear to kernel newsgroups, +> announcements, and changelogs. I am aware that there have very +> occasionally been corruption problems, but my understanding is that +> these are fixed (and quickly). In any case, I'd say that your assertion +> is not widely known and I'd appreciate some data or references. +> +> As for PostgreSQL on ext2 and ext3, I recently switched from ext3 to +> ext2 (Stephen Tweedy was insightful to facilitate this backward +> compatibility). I did this because I had a 45M row update on one table +> that was taking inordinate time (killed after 10 hours), even though +> creating the database from backup takes ~4 hours including indexing (see +> pgsql-perform post on 2003/07/22). CPU usage was ~2% on an otherwise +> unloaded, fast, SCSI160 machine. vmstat io suggested that PostgreSQL was +> writing something on the order of 100x as many blocks as being read. My +> untested interpretation was that the update bookkeeping as well as data +> update were all getting journalled, the journal space would fill, get +> sync'd, then repeat. In effect, all blocks were being written TWICE just +> for the journalling, never mind the overhead for PostgreSQL +> transactions. This emphasizes that journals probably work best with +> short burst writes and syncing during lulls rather than sustained +> writes. +> +> I ended up solving the update issue without really updating, so ext2 +> timings aren't known. So, you may want to test this yourself if you're +> concerned. +> +> -Reece +> +> +> -- +> Reece Hart, Ph.D. rkh@gene.com, http://www.gene.com/ +> Genentech, Inc. 650/225-6133 (voice), -5389 (fax) +> Bioinformatics and Protein Engineering +> 1 DNA Way, MS-93 http://www.in-machina.com/~reece/ +> South San Francisco, CA 94080-4990 reece@in-machina.com, GPG: 0x25EC91A0 + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 20:24:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6013D1C4D9 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:24:44 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 54928-07 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:23:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AD4D1C47A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:24:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BNMpSa026935; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:22:51 -0400 (EDT) +To: josh@agliodbs.com +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +In-reply-to: <200308111559.09924.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: + <200308111559.09924.josh@agliodbs.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Josh Berkus + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:59:09 -0700" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:22:51 -0400 +Message-ID: <26934.1060644171@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/183 +X-Sequence-Number: 3000 + +Josh Berkus writes: +> By everything I can measure, the live database and the test are +> identical; yet the test does not think that idx_caseclients_case is +> very accessable, and the live database knows it is. + +Let's see the pg_stats rows for case_clients in both databases. The +entries for trial_groups might be relevant too. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 21:14:52 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13AAAD1B523 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:48:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 55106-10 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:46:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6ADD1B574 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:47:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BNkLSa027218; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:46:21 -0400 (EDT) +To: josh@agliodbs.com +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +In-reply-to: <200308111637.33011.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: + <200308111559.09924.josh@agliodbs.com> + <26934.1060644171@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <200308111637.33011.josh@agliodbs.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Josh Berkus + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:37:33 -0700" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:46:21 -0400 +Message-ID: <27217.1060645581@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/186 +X-Sequence-Number: 3003 + +Josh Berkus writes: +> Still, they are differences. Attached. + +Actually, it was mainly "cases" that I wanted to know about --- +specifically, whichever columns are in "idx_cases_tgroup". +Also, which of the trial_groups columns is the pkey? + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 21:13:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46412D1B4E2 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:53:10 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58178-08 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:51:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43456D1B524 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:52:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3503835; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:52:46 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Tom Lane +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:51:01 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: + <200308111559.09924.josh@agliodbs.com> + <26934.1060644171@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <26934.1060644171@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308111651.01597.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/185 +X-Sequence-Number: 3002 + +Tom, + +> Let's see the pg_stats rows for case_clients in both databases. The +> entries for trial_groups might be relevant too. + +My reading is that the case is "borderline"; that is, becuase the correlati= +on=20 +is about 10-20% higher on the test database (since it was restored "clean"= +=20 +from backup) the planner is resorting to a seq scan. + +At which point the spectre of random_page_cost less than 1.0 rears its ugly= +=20 +head again. Because the planner seems to regard this as a borderline case,= +=20 +but it's far from borderline ... index scan takes 260ms, seq scan takes=20 +244,000ms. Yet my random_page_cost is set pretty low already, at 1.5. + +It seems like I'd have to set random_page_cost to less than 1.0 to make sur= +e=20 +that the planner never used a seq scan. Which kinda defies the meaning of= +=20 +the setting. + +*sigh* wish the client would pay for an upgrade .... + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 21:12:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52352D1B4F0 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:01:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 61758-05 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:59:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF12D1B52C + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:01:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7BNxaSa027329; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:59:36 -0400 (EDT) +To: josh@agliodbs.com +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +In-reply-to: <200308111651.01597.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: + <200308111559.09924.josh@agliodbs.com> + <26934.1060644171@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <200308111651.01597.josh@agliodbs.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Josh Berkus + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:51:01 -0700" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:59:36 -0400 +Message-ID: <27328.1060646376@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/184 +X-Sequence-Number: 3001 + +Josh Berkus writes: +> My reading is that the case is "borderline"; + +Well, clearly the planner is flipping to a much less desirable plan, but +the core estimation error is not borderline by my standards. In the +live DB we have this subplan: + +-> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..7.41 rows=1 width=12) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=856) + -> Index Scan using trial_groups_pkey on trial_groups (cost=0.00..3.49 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=0 loops=856) + -> Index Scan using idx_cases_tgroup on cases (cost=0.00..3.92 rows=1 width=8) (actual time=0.02..0.04 rows=4 loops=133) + +In the test DB, the identical subplan is estimated at: + +-> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..81.53 rows=887 width=12) (actual time=0.03..0.04 rows=1 loops=855) + -> Index Scan using trial_groups_pkey on trial_groups (cost=0.00..3.49 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=0 loops=855) + -> Index Scan using idx_cases_tgroup on cases (cost=0.00..77.77 rows=43 width=8) (actual time=0.03..0.07 rows=6 loops=133) + +and that factor of 887 error in the output rows estimate is what's +driving all the outer plan steps to make bad choices. + +The "trial_groups_pkey" estimate is the same in both databases, +so it's presumably a problem with estimating the number of +matches to a "trial_groups" row that will be found in "cases". +This is dependent on the pg_stats entries for the relevant +columns, which I'm still hoping to see ... + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 21:30:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC21D1B524 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:29:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 63521-09 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:28:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AFB0D1B523 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:29:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7C0TMSa027574; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:29:22 -0400 (EDT) +To: josh@agliodbs.com +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgreSQL.org +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +In-reply-to: <200308111716.22288.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: + <200308111654.20929.josh@agliodbs.com> + <27393.1060646753@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <200308111716.22288.josh@agliodbs.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Josh Berkus + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:16:22 -0700" +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:29:22 -0400 +Message-ID: <27573.1060648162@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/187 +X-Sequence-Number: 3004 + +Josh Berkus writes: +> Tom, +>> Okay, here's our problem: +>> +>> live DB: tgroup_id n_distinct = -1 +>> +>> test DN: tgroup_id n_distinct = 11 +>> +>> The former estimate actually means that it thinks tgroup_id is a unique +>> column, whereas the latter says there are only 11 distinct values in the +>> column. I assume the former is much nearer to the truth (how many rows +>> in cases, and how many distinct tgroup_id values)? + +> The real case is that there are 113 distinct tgroup_ids, which cover +> about 10% of the population of cases. The other 90% is NULL. The +> average tgroup_id is shared between 4.7 cases. + +> So this seems like sampling error. + +Partly. The numbers suggest that in ANALYZE's default sample of 3000 +rows, it's only finding about a dozen non-null tgroup_ids (yielding the +0.996 null_frac value); and that in one case all dozen are different and +in the other case there are two duplicates. It would help if you +boosted the stats target for this column by a factor of 10. (You can +do that in 7.2, btw --- IIRC the only problem is that a pg_dump won't +show that you did so.) + +But the other part of the problem is that in 7.2, the join selectivity +estimator is way off when you are joining a unique column (like the pkey +on the other side) to a column with a very large fraction of nulls. +We only discovered this recently; it's fixed as of 7.3.3: + +2003-04-15 01:18 tgl + + * src/backend/utils/adt/selfuncs.c (REL7_3_STABLE): eqjoinsel's + logic for case where MCV lists are not present should account for + NULLs; in hindsight this is obvious since the code for the + MCV-lists case would reduce to this when there are zero entries in + both lists. Per example from Alec Mitchell. + +Possibly you could backpatch that into 7.2, although I'd think an update +to 7.3.4 would be a more profitable use of time. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 21:45:19 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578D3D1B561 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:45:17 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 62615-10 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:43:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED38D1B53A + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:45:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3504009; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:45:33 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Tom Lane +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:43:48 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgreSQL.org +References: + <200308111716.22288.josh@agliodbs.com> + <27573.1060648162@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <27573.1060648162@sss.pgh.pa.us> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308111743.48564.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/189 +X-Sequence-Number: 3006 + +Tom, + +> Partly. The numbers suggest that in ANALYZE's default sample of 3000 +> rows, it's only finding about a dozen non-null tgroup_ids (yielding the +> 0.996 null_frac value); and that in one case all dozen are different and +> in the other case there are two duplicates. It would help if you +> boosted the stats target for this column by a factor of 10. (You can +> do that in 7.2, btw --- IIRC the only problem is that a pg_dump won't +> show that you did so.) + +Also, there doesn't seem to be any way in 7.2 for me to find out what the= +=20 +current statistics target for a column is. What am I missing? + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 21:44:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5202CD1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:44:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 63876-06 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:42:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513DDD1B550 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:43:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7C0hnLt011542; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:43:50 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <184401c3606b$c7459860$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Andrew Sullivan" , + +References: <20030808185323.GH2967@libertyrms.info> + + <20030811152414.GF9086@libertyrms.info> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:50:48 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/188 +X-Sequence-Number: 3005 + +> Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +> features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +> attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +> until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +> 2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +> taking a risk[1]. + +Dudes, seriously - switch to FreeBSD :P + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 21:55:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3ACD1B52C + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:53:23 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66985-05 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:51:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD69D1B524 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:53:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3504025; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:53:24 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Tom Lane +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:51:39 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgreSQL.org +References: + <200308111716.22288.josh@agliodbs.com> + <27573.1060648162@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <27573.1060648162@sss.pgh.pa.us> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308111751.39998.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/190 +X-Sequence-Number: 3007 + +Tom, + +> Partly. The numbers suggest that in ANALYZE's default sample of 3000 +> rows, it's only finding about a dozen non-null tgroup_ids (yielding the +> 0.996 null_frac value); and that in one case all dozen are different and +> in the other case there are two duplicates. It would help if you +> boosted the stats target for this column by a factor of 10. (You can +> do that in 7.2, btw --- IIRC the only problem is that a pg_dump won't +> show that you did so.) + +Hmmm. No dice. I raised the selectivity to 1000, which increased n_disti= +nct=20 +to 108, which is pretty close to accurate. However, the planner still=20 +insists on using a seq scan on case_clients unless I drop random_page_cost = +to=20 +1.5 (which is up from 1.2 but still somewhat unreasonable). + +> But the other part of the problem is that in 7.2, the join selectivity +> estimator is way off when you are joining a unique column (like the pkey +> on the other side) to a column with a very large fraction of nulls. +> We only discovered this recently; it's fixed as of 7.3.3: + +OK, I'll talk to the client about upgrading. + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + +______AGLIO DATABASE SOLUTIONS___________________________ + Josh Berkus + Complete information technology josh@agliodbs.com + and data management solutions (415) 565-7293 + for law firms, small businesses fax 621-2533 + and non-profit organizations. San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 11 23:37:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7734ED1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 02:37:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 77812-07 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:36:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from hub.org (hub.org [64.117.225.220]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A8FD1B539 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:37:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from hub.org (unknown [64.117.225.220]) + by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871B39A7B7F + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:37:21 -0300 (ADT) +X-Received: from localhost ([unix socket]) + by hub.org (Cyrus v2.2.prealpha) with LMTP; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:35:28 -0300 +X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 +X-Received: from postgresql.org (developer.postgresql.org [64.117.224.193]) + by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBA39A7B86 + for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:35:26 -0300 (ADT) +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org-owner@localhost.postgresql.org +X-Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98DFBD1B524 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 02:35:16 +0000 (GMT) +X-Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80373-02 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:33:48 -0300 (ADT) +X-Received: from web15106.mail.bjs.yahoo.com (web15106.mail.bjs.yahoo.com + [202.3.77.151]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 749AAD1B550 + for ; + Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:35:02 -0300 (ADT) +Message-ID: <20030812023504.27034.qmail@web15106.mail.bjs.yahoo.com> +X-Received: from [137.189.4.4] by web15106.mail.bjs.yahoo.com via HTTP; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:35:04 CST +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:35:04 +0800 (CST) +From: =?gb2312?q?xin=20fu?= +Subject: about performance of postgreSQL +To: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1101371436-1060655704=:24053" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +ReSent-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:37:17 -0300 (ADT) +Resent-From: "Marc G. Fournier" +Resent-To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +ReSent-Subject: about performance of postgreSQL +ReSent-Message-ID: <20030811233717.K6860@hub.org> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 + tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, HTML_10_20 +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Archive-Number: 200308/191 +X-Sequence-Number: 3008 + +--0-1101371436-1060655704=:24053 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit + +Dear master: + I have learned postgreSQL for serveral days, now i meet some problems. when I use a TPCC(Transaction Processing Performance Council) test program to test the performance of postgreSQL , postgreSQL works very slowly, it almost need 1 minute to finish a transaction, and the CPU percent is almost 100%, +the test environment is : + OS: redhat 9.0(ext3, default configurations) + Server: postgre7.3.4(default configurations) , PIII 800M, 1G Memory + Client: tpcc test program,using ODBC API, PIII 800M, 1G Memory + when using SQLServer, it can work on a workload of 40 Warehouse, +but postgreSQL can not work even on 1 warehouse. I think there must be +some problem with my postgreSQL, can you help me? + I am in china, and my english is very poor, but i hope you can give +me some advice, thanks. + + + +--------------------------------- +Do You Yahoo!? +���ڴ�Ƭ����Ż�ͨ ��������ͷ+�Ż�ͨ��Ƶ�������������� +--0-1101371436-1060655704=:24053 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=gb2312 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit + +
Dear master:
+
       I have learned postgreSQL for serveral days, now i meet some problems. when I use a TPCC(Transaction Processing Performance Council) test program to test the performance of postgreSQL , postgreSQL works very slowly, it almost need 1 minute to finish a transaction, and the CPU percent is almost 100%,
+
the test environment is :
+
       OS: redhat 9.0(ext3, default configurations)
+
       Server: postgre7.3.4(default configurations) , PIII 800M, 1G Memory
+
       Client: tpcc test program,using ODBC API, PIII 800M, 1G Memory
+
       when using SQLServer, it can work on a workload of 40 Warehouse,
+
but postgreSQL can not work even on 1 warehouse. I think there must be
+
some problem with my postgreSQL, can you help me?
+
      I am in china, and my english is very poor, but i hope you can give
+
me some advice, thanks.


Do You Yahoo!?
+���ڴ�Ƭ����Ż�ͨ ��������ͷ+�Ż�ͨ��Ƶ�������������� +--0-1101371436-1060655704=:24053-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 00:19:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2233D1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 03:18:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80813-09 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:17:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (news.hub.org [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01182D1B524 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:18:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (news.hub.org [64.117.224.194]) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7C3Imem012877 + for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 03:18:48 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7C2wadO003090 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 02:58:36 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: On Linux Filesystems +Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:58:18 -0400 +Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc +Lines: 81 +Message-ID: +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> <4146.1060624411@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? +X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ +X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne +X-Emacs-Acronym: Even a Master of Arts Comes Simpler +Microsoft: Making the world a better place... for Microsoft. +X-Uboat-Death-Message: BOMBED BY ATOMIC BOMB. SINKING. U-10. +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:gTY1UnLHe8bTYznki7S6fA4Vgnc= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/192 +X-Sequence-Number: 3009 + +Bruce Momjian commented: + + "Uh, the ext2 developers say it isn't 100% reliable" ... "I mentioned + it while I was visiting Red Hat, and they didn't refute it." + +1. Nobody has gone through any formal proofs, and there are few +systems _anywhere_ that are 100% reliable. NASA has occasionally lost +spacecraft to software bugs, so nobody will be making such rash claims +about ext2. + +2. Several projects have taken on the task of introducing journalled +filesystems, most notably ext3 (sponsored by RHAT via Stephen Tweedy) +and ReiserFS (oft sponsored by SuSE). (I leave off JFS/XFS since they +existed long before they had any relationship with Linux.) + +Participants in such projects certainly have interest in presenting +the notion that they provide improved reliability over ext2. + +3. There is no "apologist" for ext2 that will either (stupidly and +futilely) claim it to be flawless. Nor is there substantial interest +in improving it; the sort people that would be interested in that sort +of thing are working on the other FSes. + +This also means that there's no one interested in going into the +guaranteed-to-be-unsung effort involved in trying to prove ext2 to be +"formally reliable." + +4. It would be silly to minimize the impact of commercial interest. +RHAT has been paying for the development of a would-be ext2 successor. +For them to refute your comments wouldn't be in their interests. + +Note that these are "warm and fuzzy" comments, the whole lot. The +80-some thousand lines of code involved in ext2, ext3, reiserfs, and +jfs are no more amenable to absolute mathematical proof of reliability +than the corresponding BSD FFS code. + +6. Such efforts would be futile, anyways. Disks are mechanical +devices, and, as such, suffer from substantial reliability issues +irrespective of the reliability of the software. I have lost sleep on +too many occasions due to failures of: + a) Disk drives, + b) Disk controllers [the worst Oracle failure I encountered resulted + from this], and + c) OS memory management. + +I used ReiserFS back in its "bleeding edge" days, and find myself a +lot more worried about losing data to flakey disk controllers. + +It frankly seems insulting to focus on ext2 in this way when: + + a) There aren't _hard_ conclusions to point to, just soft ones; + + b) The reasons for you hearing vaguely negative things about ext2 + are much more likely political than they are technical. + +I wish there were more "hard and fast" conclusions to draw, to be able +to conclusively say that one or another Linux filesystem was +unambiguously preferable for use with PostgreSQL. There are not +conclusive metrics, either in terms of speed or of some notion of +"reliability." I'd expect ReiserFS to be the poorest choice, and for +XFS to be the best, but I only have fuzzy reasons, as opposed to +metrics. + +The absence of measurable metrics of the sort is _NOT_ a proof that +(say) FreeBSD is conclusively preferable, whatever your own +preferences (I'll try to avoid characterizing it as "prejudices," as +that would be unkind) may be. That would represent a quite separate +debate, and one that doesn't belong here, certainly not on a thread +where the underlying question was "Which Linux FS is preferred?" + +If the OSDB TPC-like benchmarks can get "packaged" up well enough to +easily run and rerun them, there's hope of getting better answers, +perhaps even including performance metrics for *BSD. That, not +Linux-baiting, is the answer... +-- +select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'acm.org'; +http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sap.html +(eq? 'truth 'beauty) ; to avoid unassigned-var error, since compiled code + ; will pick up previous value to var set!-ed, + ; the unassigned object. +-- from BBN-CL's cl-parser.scm + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 01:07:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C24D1B524 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 04:07:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15589-05 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:05:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640B2D1B56B + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:07:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7C47C910495; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:07:12 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308120407.h7C47C910495@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: On Linux Filesystems +In-Reply-To: +To: Christopher Browne +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:07:12 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/193 +X-Sequence-Number: 3010 + + +As I remember, there were clear cases that ext2 would fail to recover, +and it was known to be a limitation of the file system implementation. +Some of the ext2 developers were in the room at Red Hat when I said +that, so if it was incorrect, they would hopefully have spoken up. I +addressed the comments directly to them. + +To be recoverasble, you have to be careful how you sync metadata to +disk. All the journalling file systems, and the BSD UFS do that. I am +told ext2 does not. I don't know much more than that. + +As I remember years ago, ext2 was faster than UFS, but it was true +because ext2 didn't guarantee failure recovery. Now, with UFS soft +updates, the have similar performance characteristics, but UFS is still +crash-safe. + +However, I just tried google and couldn't find any documented evidence +that ext2 isn't crash-safe, so maybe I am wrong. + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +Christopher Browne wrote: +> Bruce Momjian commented: +> +> "Uh, the ext2 developers say it isn't 100% reliable" ... "I mentioned +> it while I was visiting Red Hat, and they didn't refute it." +> +> 1. Nobody has gone through any formal proofs, and there are few +> systems _anywhere_ that are 100% reliable. NASA has occasionally lost +> spacecraft to software bugs, so nobody will be making such rash claims +> about ext2. +> +> 2. Several projects have taken on the task of introducing journalled +> filesystems, most notably ext3 (sponsored by RHAT via Stephen Tweedy) +> and ReiserFS (oft sponsored by SuSE). (I leave off JFS/XFS since they +> existed long before they had any relationship with Linux.) +> +> Participants in such projects certainly have interest in presenting +> the notion that they provide improved reliability over ext2. +> +> 3. There is no "apologist" for ext2 that will either (stupidly and +> futilely) claim it to be flawless. Nor is there substantial interest +> in improving it; the sort people that would be interested in that sort +> of thing are working on the other FSes. +> +> This also means that there's no one interested in going into the +> guaranteed-to-be-unsung effort involved in trying to prove ext2 to be +> "formally reliable." +> +> 4. It would be silly to minimize the impact of commercial interest. +> RHAT has been paying for the development of a would-be ext2 successor. +> For them to refute your comments wouldn't be in their interests. +> +> Note that these are "warm and fuzzy" comments, the whole lot. The +> 80-some thousand lines of code involved in ext2, ext3, reiserfs, and +> jfs are no more amenable to absolute mathematical proof of reliability +> than the corresponding BSD FFS code. +> +> 6. Such efforts would be futile, anyways. Disks are mechanical +> devices, and, as such, suffer from substantial reliability issues +> irrespective of the reliability of the software. I have lost sleep on +> too many occasions due to failures of: +> a) Disk drives, +> b) Disk controllers [the worst Oracle failure I encountered resulted +> from this], and +> c) OS memory management. +> +> I used ReiserFS back in its "bleeding edge" days, and find myself a +> lot more worried about losing data to flakey disk controllers. +> +> It frankly seems insulting to focus on ext2 in this way when: +> +> a) There aren't _hard_ conclusions to point to, just soft ones; +> +> b) The reasons for you hearing vaguely negative things about ext2 +> are much more likely political than they are technical. +> +> I wish there were more "hard and fast" conclusions to draw, to be able +> to conclusively say that one or another Linux filesystem was +> unambiguously preferable for use with PostgreSQL. There are not +> conclusive metrics, either in terms of speed or of some notion of +> "reliability." I'd expect ReiserFS to be the poorest choice, and for +> XFS to be the best, but I only have fuzzy reasons, as opposed to +> metrics. +> +> The absence of measurable metrics of the sort is _NOT_ a proof that +> (say) FreeBSD is conclusively preferable, whatever your own +> preferences (I'll try to avoid characterizing it as "prejudices," as +> that would be unkind) may be. That would represent a quite separate +> debate, and one that doesn't belong here, certainly not on a thread +> where the underlying question was "Which Linux FS is preferred?" +> +> If the OSDB TPC-like benchmarks can get "packaged" up well enough to +> easily run and rerun them, there's hope of getting better answers, +> perhaps even including performance metrics for *BSD. That, not +> Linux-baiting, is the answer... +> -- +> select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'acm.org'; +> http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sap.html +> (eq? 'truth 'beauty) ; to avoid unassigned-var error, since compiled code +> ; will pick up previous value to var set!-ed, +> ; the unassigned object. +> -- from BBN-CL's cl-parser.scm +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster +> + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 01:16:56 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0637DD1C7F2 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 04:16:55 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17003-02 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:15:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D880D1B4E2 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:16:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7C4Gfn11426; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:16:41 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308120416.h7C4Gfn11426@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: On Linux Filesystems +In-Reply-To: +To: pgman@candle.pha.pa.us +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:16:41 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/194 +X-Sequence-Number: 3011 + + +Here is one talking about ext2 corruption from power failure from 2002: + + http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ext2+corrupt+%22power+failure%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=alvrj5%249in%241%40usc.edu&rnum=9 + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +pgman wrote: +> +> As I remember, there were clear cases that ext2 would fail to recover, +> and it was known to be a limitation of the file system implementation. +> Some of the ext2 developers were in the room at Red Hat when I said +> that, so if it was incorrect, they would hopefully have spoken up. I +> addressed the comments directly to them. +> +> To be recoverasble, you have to be careful how you sync metadata to +> disk. All the journalling file systems, and the BSD UFS do that. I am +> told ext2 does not. I don't know much more than that. +> +> As I remember years ago, ext2 was faster than UFS, but it was true +> because ext2 didn't guarantee failure recovery. Now, with UFS soft +> updates, the have similar performance characteristics, but UFS is still +> crash-safe. +> +> However, I just tried google and couldn't find any documented evidence +> that ext2 isn't crash-safe, so maybe I am wrong. +> +> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- +> +> Christopher Browne wrote: +> > Bruce Momjian commented: +> > +> > "Uh, the ext2 developers say it isn't 100% reliable" ... "I mentioned +> > it while I was visiting Red Hat, and they didn't refute it." +> > +> > 1. Nobody has gone through any formal proofs, and there are few +> > systems _anywhere_ that are 100% reliable. NASA has occasionally lost +> > spacecraft to software bugs, so nobody will be making such rash claims +> > about ext2. +> > +> > 2. Several projects have taken on the task of introducing journalled +> > filesystems, most notably ext3 (sponsored by RHAT via Stephen Tweedy) +> > and ReiserFS (oft sponsored by SuSE). (I leave off JFS/XFS since they +> > existed long before they had any relationship with Linux.) +> > +> > Participants in such projects certainly have interest in presenting +> > the notion that they provide improved reliability over ext2. +> > +> > 3. There is no "apologist" for ext2 that will either (stupidly and +> > futilely) claim it to be flawless. Nor is there substantial interest +> > in improving it; the sort people that would be interested in that sort +> > of thing are working on the other FSes. +> > +> > This also means that there's no one interested in going into the +> > guaranteed-to-be-unsung effort involved in trying to prove ext2 to be +> > "formally reliable." +> > +> > 4. It would be silly to minimize the impact of commercial interest. +> > RHAT has been paying for the development of a would-be ext2 successor. +> > For them to refute your comments wouldn't be in their interests. +> > +> > Note that these are "warm and fuzzy" comments, the whole lot. The +> > 80-some thousand lines of code involved in ext2, ext3, reiserfs, and +> > jfs are no more amenable to absolute mathematical proof of reliability +> > than the corresponding BSD FFS code. +> > +> > 6. Such efforts would be futile, anyways. Disks are mechanical +> > devices, and, as such, suffer from substantial reliability issues +> > irrespective of the reliability of the software. I have lost sleep on +> > too many occasions due to failures of: +> > a) Disk drives, +> > b) Disk controllers [the worst Oracle failure I encountered resulted +> > from this], and +> > c) OS memory management. +> > +> > I used ReiserFS back in its "bleeding edge" days, and find myself a +> > lot more worried about losing data to flakey disk controllers. +> > +> > It frankly seems insulting to focus on ext2 in this way when: +> > +> > a) There aren't _hard_ conclusions to point to, just soft ones; +> > +> > b) The reasons for you hearing vaguely negative things about ext2 +> > are much more likely political than they are technical. +> > +> > I wish there were more "hard and fast" conclusions to draw, to be able +> > to conclusively say that one or another Linux filesystem was +> > unambiguously preferable for use with PostgreSQL. There are not +> > conclusive metrics, either in terms of speed or of some notion of +> > "reliability." I'd expect ReiserFS to be the poorest choice, and for +> > XFS to be the best, but I only have fuzzy reasons, as opposed to +> > metrics. +> > +> > The absence of measurable metrics of the sort is _NOT_ a proof that +> > (say) FreeBSD is conclusively preferable, whatever your own +> > preferences (I'll try to avoid characterizing it as "prejudices," as +> > that would be unkind) may be. That would represent a quite separate +> > debate, and one that doesn't belong here, certainly not on a thread +> > where the underlying question was "Which Linux FS is preferred?" +> > +> > If the OSDB TPC-like benchmarks can get "packaged" up well enough to +> > easily run and rerun them, there's hope of getting better answers, +> > perhaps even including performance metrics for *BSD. That, not +> > Linux-baiting, is the answer... +> > -- +> > select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'acm.org'; +> > http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sap.html +> > (eq? 'truth 'beauty) ; to avoid unassigned-var error, since compiled code +> > ; will pick up previous value to var set!-ed, +> > ; the unassigned object. +> > -- from BBN-CL's cl-parser.scm +> > +> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster +> > +> +> -- +> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us +> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 +> + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road +> + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 01:37:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E085ED1B52C + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 04:37:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18660-02 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:35:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from home.samurai.com (home.samurai.com [205.207.28.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DE93D1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:37:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by home.samurai.com (Postfix, from userid 1014) + id 8866A26203; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:37:19 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:37:19 -0400 +From: Neil Conway +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Reece Hart , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030812043719.GB76772@home.samurai.com> +References: <1060642567.15483.220.camel@tallac> + <200308112259.h7BMxUo14439@candle.pha.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <200308112259.h7BMxUo14439@candle.pha.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/195 +X-Sequence-Number: 3012 + +On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 06:59:30PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> Uh, the ext2 developers say it isn't 100% reliable --- at least that is +> that was told. I don't know any personally, but I mentioned it while I +> was visiting Red Hat, and they didn't refute it. + +IMHO, if we're going to say "don't use X on production PostgreSQL +systems", we need to have some better evidene than "no one has +said anything to the contrary, and I heard X is bad". If we can't +produce such evidence, we shouldn't say anything at all, and users +can decide what to use for themselves. + +(Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing about ext2 in particular...) + +> > My +> > untested interpretation was that the update bookkeeping as well as data +> > update were all getting journalled, the journal space would fill, get +> > sync'd, then repeat. In effect, all blocks were being written TWICE just +> > for the journalling, never mind the overhead for PostgreSQL +> > transactions. + +Journalling may or may not have been the culprit, but I doubt everything +was being written to disk twice: + +(a) ext3 does metadata-only journalling by default + +(b) PostgreSQL only fsyncs WAL records to disk, not the data itself + +-Neil + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 01:42:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1236D1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 04:42:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15936-06 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:41:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61F1D1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:42:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030812044225.TYZG24359.lakemtao02.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:42:25 -0400 +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <184401c3606b$c7459860$2800a8c0@mars> +References: <20030808185323.GH2967@libertyrms.info> + + <20030811152414.GF9086@libertyrms.info> + <184401c3606b$c7459860$2800a8c0@mars> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1060663341.30778.14.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 11 Aug 2003 23:42:21 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/196 +X-Sequence-Number: 3013 + +On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 19:50, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +> > Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +> > features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +> > attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +> > until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +> > 2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +> > taking a risk[1]. +> +> Dudes, seriously - switch to FreeBSD :P + +But, like, we want a *good* OS... 8-0 + +-- ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "Man, I'm pretty. Hoo Hah!" | +| Johnny Bravo | ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 01:53:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD69D1B524 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 04:53:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15543-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:51:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75A50D1B52C + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:52:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7C4qkH14615; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:52:46 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308120452.h7C4qkH14615@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <20030812043719.GB76772@home.samurai.com> +To: Neil Conway +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:52:46 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Reece Hart , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/197 +X-Sequence-Number: 3014 + +Neil Conway wrote: +> On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 06:59:30PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> > Uh, the ext2 developers say it isn't 100% reliable --- at least that is +> > that was told. I don't know any personally, but I mentioned it while I +> > was visiting Red Hat, and they didn't refute it. +> +> IMHO, if we're going to say "don't use X on production PostgreSQL +> systems", we need to have some better evidene than "no one has +> said anything to the contrary, and I heard X is bad". If we can't +> produce such evidence, we shouldn't say anything at all, and users +> can decide what to use for themselves. +> +> (Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing about ext2 in particular...) + +I don't use Linux and was just repeating what I had heard from others, +and read in postings. I don't have any first-hand experience with ext2 +(except for a laptop I borrowed that wouldn't boot after being shut +off), but others on this mailing list have said the same thing. + +Here is another email talking about corrupting ext2 file systems: + + http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ext2+corrupt+%22power+failure%22&start=10&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=20021128061318.GE18980%40ursine&rnum=11 + + From his wording, I assume he is not talking about fsck-correctable +corrupting. + + From what I remember, the ext2 failure cases were quite small, but known +by the ext2 developers, and considered too large a performance hit to +correct. + +> > > My +> > > untested interpretation was that the update bookkeeping as well as data +> > > update were all getting journalled, the journal space would fill, get +> > > sync'd, then repeat. In effect, all blocks were being written TWICE just +> > > for the journalling, never mind the overhead for PostgreSQL +> > > transactions. +> +> Journalling may or may not have been the culprit, but I doubt everything +> was being written to disk twice: +> +> (a) ext3 does metadata-only journalling by default + +If that is true, why was I told people have to mount their ext3 file +systems with metadata-only. Again, I have no experience myself, but why +are people telling me this? + +> (b) PostgreSQL only fsyncs WAL records to disk, not the data itself + +Right. WAL recovers the data. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 02:08:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A254D1B561 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 05:08:20 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17499-07 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 02:06:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from home.samurai.com (home.samurai.com [205.207.28.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB53D1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 02:08:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by home.samurai.com (Postfix, from userid 1014) + id 271E326203; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:08:09 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:08:09 -0400 +From: Neil Conway +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Reece Hart , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030812050809.GC76772@home.samurai.com> +References: <20030812043719.GB76772@home.samurai.com> + <200308120452.h7C4qkH14615@candle.pha.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <200308120452.h7C4qkH14615@candle.pha.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/198 +X-Sequence-Number: 3015 + +On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 12:52:46AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: + I don't use Linux and was just repeating what I had heard from others, +> and read in postings. I don't have any first-hand experience with ext2 +> (except for a laptop I borrowed that wouldn't boot after being shut +> off), but others on this mailing list have said the same thing. + +Right, and I understand the need to answer users asking about +which filesystem to use, but I'd be cautious of bad-mouthing +another OSS project without any hard evidence to back up our +claim (of course if we have such evidence, then fine -- I +just haven't seen it). It would be like $SOME_LARGE_OSS +project saying "Don't use our project with PostgreSQL, as +foo@bar.org had data corruption with PostgreSQL 6.3 on +UnixWare" -- kind of annoying, right? + +> > (a) ext3 does metadata-only journalling by default +> +> If that is true, why was I told people have to mount their ext3 file +> systems with metadata-only. Again, I have no experience myself, but why +> are people telling me this? + +Perhaps they were suggesting that people mount ext2 using +data=writeback, rather than the default of data=ordered. + +BTW, I've heard from a couple different people that using +ext3 with data=journalled (i.e. enabling journalling of both +data and metadata) actually makes PostgreSQL faster, as +it means that ext3 can skip PostgreSQL's fsync request +since ext3's log is flushed to disk already. I haven't +tested this myself, however. + +-Neil + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 15:26:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E99D1C9BF + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:26:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 99597-01 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:25:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from www.postgresql.com (www.postgresql.com [64.117.225.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8453BD1F44B + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:25:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F70CF7905 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 03:42:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7C6hbU4029109 + for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:13:37 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7C6ha3g029096 + for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:13:36 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:13:18 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F38D9DE.20174.1E36D1C5@localhost> +In-reply-to: <1060663341.30778.14.camel@haggis> +References: <184401c3606b$c7459860$2800a8c0@mars> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/212 +X-Sequence-Number: 3029 + +On 11 Aug 2003 at 23:42, Ron Johnson wrote: + +> On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 19:50, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +> > > Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +> > > features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +> > > attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +> > > until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +> > > 2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +> > > taking a risk[1]. +> > +> > Dudes, seriously - switch to FreeBSD :P +> +> But, like, we want a *good* OS... 8-0 + +Joke aside, I guess since postgresql is pretty much reliant on file system for +basic file functionality, I guess it's time to test Linux 2.6 and compare it. + +And don't forget, for large databases, there is still XFS out there which is +probably the ruler at upper end.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Unfair animal names:-- tsetse fly -- bullhead-- booby -- duck-billed +platypus-- sapsucker -- Clarence -- Gary Larson + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 15:34:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D9CD1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:27:54 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 00656-02 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:26:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from www.postgresql.com (www.postgresql.com [64.117.225.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4307DD1F4D7 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:25:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from beth.coza.net.za (beth.coza.net.za [206.223.136.193]) + by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C29CF7B62 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 04:17:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from coza.net.za (mixo.coza.net.za [206.223.136.225]) + by beth.coza.net.za (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h7C7GOo02922; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:16:28 +0200 +Message-ID: <3F389449.8050305@coza.net.za> +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:16:25 +0200 +From: mixo +Reply-To: mixo@coza.net.za +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030811 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bjoern Metzdorf +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +References: <3F337B39.5030904@coza.net.za> + <01ed01c35d99$73f08d70$0564a8c0@shock> +In-Reply-To: <01ed01c35d99$73f08d70$0564a8c0@shock> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/213 +X-Sequence-Number: 3030 + +Thanks to everyone who responded. It's a pity that the discussion has gone +the ext2 vs ext3 route. The main reason I asked my original question is +that I am currently importing data into Pg which is about 2.9 Gigs. +Unfortunately, to maintain data intergrity, data is inserted into a table +one row at a time. This exercise took ~7 days on the same system with +slightly different setup(PIII 1.0GHZ, 512M RAM -- CPU speed was down graded +due to serveral over heating problems which have since been fixed, and RAM +was added for good measure). I have just reloaded the machine, and started +the import. So far ~ 6000 record have been imported, and there is 32000 +left. + +P.S. Importing the same data on Mysql took ~2 days. + +Bjoern Metzdorf wrote: + +>>be able to handle at least 8M at a time. The machine has +>>two P III 933MHz CPU's, 1.128G RAM (512M*2 + 128M), and +>>a 36 Gig hd with 1 Gig swap and 3 equal size ext3 partitions. +>>What would be the recomended setup for good performance +>>considering that the db will have about 15 users for +>>9 hours in a day, and about 10 or so users throughout the day +>>who wont be conistenly using the db. +>> +>> +> +>For 15 users you won't need great tuning at all. Just make sure, that you +>have the right indizes on the tables and that you have good queries (query +>plan). +> +>About the 8Meg blobs, I don't know. Other people on this list may be able to +>give you hints here. +> +>Regards, +>Bjoern +> +> + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 13:28:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9A9D1C7F1 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:28:46 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80360-05 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:27:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from www.postgresql.com (www.postgresql.com [64.117.225.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3D5D1C4BA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:28:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from melina.szuwary.org (136-bem-3.acn.waw.pl [62.121.82.136]) + by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F419CF77E0 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 06:52:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by melina.szuwary.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id 38178DF22; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:57:08 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:57:07 +0200 +From: Jacek Rembisz +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Analyze makes queries slow... +Message-ID: <20030812095707.GA22395@melina.szuwary.org> +References: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/206 +X-Sequence-Number: 3023 + +On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 03:58:41PM +0200, Stef wrote: + +> I have attached an sql statement that normally runs under 3 minutes. +> That is, until I vacuum analyze the database (or just the tables in the query), +> then the same query runs longer than 12 hours, and I have to kill it. + +Hmm, I have noticed similar problem with a query with order by ... limit clause.Although it runs only 10 times slower after analyze :) + +The query joins one big table (20 000 rows) with several small tables +(200-4000 rows) than order by "primary key of big table" limit 20 + +Without this order by ... limit clause the query is 5 times faster after +analyze. + +Looking into explain analyze outputs: +1. Before vacuum analyze a planer chooses nested loop, the deepest is: + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..116866.54 rows=19286 width=96) (actual time=0.14..1.39 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Index Scan Backward using big_table_pkey on big_table k (cost=0.00..1461.15 rows=19286 width=52) (actual time=0.07..0.47 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using 4000rows_table_pkey on 4000rows_table zs (cost=0.00..5.97 rows=1 width=44) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=0 loops=21) + +2. After analyze uses hashjoins + +When I remove this order by limit clause the query after analyze takes +the same time and the query before analyze is much more slower. + +I won't blame the planer. How he could learn that he should first +take those 20 rows and than perform joins? There is a where clause +with complex exists(subquery) condition regarding one of big_table fields, +but removing this condition does not change the query plan. + +Pure joining without any additional conditions and only primary key of big +table in select clause runs 4 times slower then whole query before +vacuuum analyze :) + +Does in all the planer take in the consideration the limit clause? + +Probably I'm missing something. I don't know much about the planer. + +Finaly I have redesigned the query. + +Regards, +Jacek + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 10:12:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30018D1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:12:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65717-01 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:11:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C3FD1C4BF + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:12:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7CDBrSa000793; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:11:54 -0400 (EDT) +To: josh@agliodbs.com +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgreSQL.org +Subject: Re: Odd problem with performance in duplicate database +In-reply-to: <200308111743.48564.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: + <200308111716.22288.josh@agliodbs.com> + <27573.1060648162@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <200308111743.48564.josh@agliodbs.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Josh Berkus + message dated "Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:43:48 -0700" +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:11:53 -0400 +Message-ID: <792.1060693913@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/199 +X-Sequence-Number: 3016 + +Josh Berkus writes: +> Also, there doesn't seem to be any way in 7.2 for me to find out what the +> current statistics target for a column is. What am I missing? + +There still isn't a handy command for it --- you have to look at +pg_attribute.attstattarget for the column. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 11:29:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B38FD1B56C + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:29:18 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 67873-06 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:27:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B555D1C4CA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:29:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7CEQtbS000117; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:26:55 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:27:52 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Christopher Kings-Lynne +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , + +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <184401c3606b$c7459860$2800a8c0@mars> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/201 +X-Sequence-Number: 3018 + +On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: + +> > Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +> > features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +> > attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +> > until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +> > 2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +> > taking a risk[1]. +> +> Dudes, seriously - switch to FreeBSD :P + +Yeah, it's nice to have a BUG FREE OS huh? ;^) + +And yes, I've used FreeBSD, it's quite good, but I kept getting the +feeling it wasn't quite done. Especially the installation documentation. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 11:29:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34550D1C4BF + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:29:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 67213-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:27:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55DA4D1C4CA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:28:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19ma8v-0002fc-00 + for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:28:57 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id B6A4DCF50; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:28:56 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:28:56 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: On Linux Filesystems +Message-ID: <20030812142856.GB12701@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> <4146.1060624411@sss.pgh.pa.us> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/200 +X-Sequence-Number: 3017 + +On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 10:58:18PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: +> 1. Nobody has gone through any formal proofs, and there are few +> systems _anywhere_ that are 100% reliable. + +I think the problem is that ext2 is known to be not perfectly crash +safe. That is, fsck on reboot after a crash can cause, in some +extreme cases, recently-fscynced data to end up in lost+found/. The +data may or may not be recoverable from there. + +I don't think anyone would object to such a characterisation of ext2. +It was not designed, ever, for perfect data safety -- it was designed +as a reasonably good compromise for most cases. _Every_ filesystem +entails some compromises. This happens to be the one entailed by +ext2. + +For production use with valuable data, for my money (or, more +precisely, my time when a system panics for no good reason), it is +always worth the additional speed penalty to use something like +metadata journalling. Maybe others have more time to spare. + +> perhaps even including performance metrics for *BSD. That, not +> Linux-baiting, is the answer... + +I didn't see anyone Linux-baiting. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 11:32:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B8DD1C4BF + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:32:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 70291-04 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:31:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3833BD1B4F0 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:32:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7CEV0bS000583; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:31:00 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:31:57 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , + +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <200308112216.h7BMGiF06162@candle.pha.pa.us> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/202 +X-Sequence-Number: 3019 + +On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: + +> scott.marlowe wrote: +> > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Andrew Sullivan wrote: +> > +> > > On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:40:20AM -0700, Jonathan Gardner wrote: +> > > > +> > > > Redhat puts ext3 on by default. Consider switching to a non-journaling FS +> > > > (ext2?) with the partition that holds your data and WAL. +> > > +> > > I would give you exactly the opposite advice: _never_ use a +> > > non-journalling fs for your data and WAL. I suppose if you can +> > > afford to lose some transactions, you can do without journalling. +> > > Otherwise, you're just borrowing trouble, near as I can tell. +> > +> > I'd argue that a reliable filesystem (ext2) is still better than a +> > questionable journaling filesystem (ext3 on kernels <2.4.20). +> > +> > This isn't saying to not use jounraling, but I would definitely test it +> > under load first to make sure it's not gonna lose data or get corrupted. +> +> That _would_ work if ext2 was a reliable file system --- it is not. +> +> This is the problem of Linux file systems --- they have unreliable, and +> journalled, with nothing in between, except using a journalling file +> system and having it only journal metadata. + +Never the less, on LINUX, which is what we use, it is by far more reliable +than ext3 or reiserfs. In four years of use I've lost zero files to any +of its bugs. Of course, maybe that's RedHat patching the kernel for me or +something. :-) they seem to hire some pretty good hackers. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 11:41:10 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7769D1C4D0 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:35:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 68978-07 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:34:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FABAD1C4CA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:35:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7CEXxbS000804; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:33:59 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:34:56 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <1060663341.30778.14.camel@haggis> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/204 +X-Sequence-Number: 3021 + +On 11 Aug 2003, Ron Johnson wrote: + +> On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 19:50, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +> > > Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +> > > features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +> > > attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +> > > until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +> > > 2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +> > > taking a risk[1]. +> > +> > Dudes, seriously - switch to FreeBSD :P +> +> But, like, we want a *good* OS... 8-0 + +What, like Unixware? (ducking quickly) (*_*) + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 11:39:58 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5BA4D1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:36:44 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 68978-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:35:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8B4D1B56C + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:36:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7CEZPbS000985; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:35:25 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:36:22 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Neil Conway +Cc: Bruce Momjian , Reece Hart , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <20030812050809.GC76772@home.samurai.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/203 +X-Sequence-Number: 3020 + +On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Neil Conway wrote: + +> On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 12:52:46AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> I don't use Linux and was just repeating what I had heard from others, +> > and read in postings. I don't have any first-hand experience with ext2 +> > (except for a laptop I borrowed that wouldn't boot after being shut +> > off), but others on this mailing list have said the same thing. +> +> Right, and I understand the need to answer users asking about +> which filesystem to use, but I'd be cautious of bad-mouthing +> another OSS project without any hard evidence to back up our +> claim (of course if we have such evidence, then fine -- I +> just haven't seen it). It would be like $SOME_LARGE_OSS +> project saying "Don't use our project with PostgreSQL, as +> foo@bar.org had data corruption with PostgreSQL 6.3 on +> UnixWare" -- kind of annoying, right? + +Wow, you put my thoughts exactly into words for me, thanks Neil. + +> > > (a) ext3 does metadata-only journalling by default +> > +> > If that is true, why was I told people have to mount their ext3 file +> > systems with metadata-only. Again, I have no experience myself, but why +> > are people telling me this? +> +> Perhaps they were suggesting that people mount ext2 using +> data=writeback, rather than the default of data=ordered. +> +> BTW, I've heard from a couple different people that using +> ext3 with data=journalled (i.e. enabling journalling of both +> data and metadata) actually makes PostgreSQL faster, as +> it means that ext3 can skip PostgreSQL's fsync request +> since ext3's log is flushed to disk already. I haven't +> tested this myself, however. + +Now that you mention it, that makes sense. I might have to test ext3 now +that the 2.6 kernel is on the way, i.e. the 2.4 kernel should be settling +down by now. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 12:06:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DE9D1C4CA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:06:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 70291-09 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:04:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7478D1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:06:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7CF5IbS003465; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:05:18 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:06:14 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Andrew Sullivan +Cc: +Subject: Re: On Linux Filesystems +In-Reply-To: <20030812142856.GB12701@libertyrms.info> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/205 +X-Sequence-Number: 3022 + +On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Andrew Sullivan wrote: + +> On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 10:58:18PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: +> > 1. Nobody has gone through any formal proofs, and there are few +> > systems _anywhere_ that are 100% reliable. +> +> I think the problem is that ext2 is known to be not perfectly crash +> safe. That is, fsck on reboot after a crash can cause, in some +> extreme cases, recently-fscynced data to end up in lost+found/. The +> data may or may not be recoverable from there. +> +> I don't think anyone would object to such a characterisation of ext2. +> It was not designed, ever, for perfect data safety -- it was designed +> as a reasonably good compromise for most cases. _Every_ filesystem +> entails some compromises. This happens to be the one entailed by +> ext2. +> +> For production use with valuable data, for my money (or, more +> precisely, my time when a system panics for no good reason), it is +> always worth the additional speed penalty to use something like +> metadata journalling. Maybe others have more time to spare. + +I think the issue here is if you are running with the async mount option, +then it is quite likely that your volume will be corrupted if there are +writes going on and power fails. + +I'm pretty sure that as long as the partition is mounted sync, this isn't +a problem. + +I have seen reports where ext3 caused the data corruption (old kernels, +2.4.4 and before I believe) problem, not ext2. I.e. the addition of +journaling caused data loss. + +Given that possibility, it may well have been at one time that ext2 was a +safer bet than ext3. + +> > perhaps even including performance metrics for *BSD. That, not +> > Linux-baiting, is the answer... +> +> I didn't see anyone Linux-baiting. + +No more than the typical, light hearted stuff we toss back and forth. I +certainly wasn't upset by any of it. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 13:38:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93BB5D1C4D7 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:38:26 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 83111-02 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:36:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B9FD1C47A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:38:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3505853 for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:37:41 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: On Linux Filesystems +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:36:21 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> + + <20030812142856.GB12701@libertyrms.info> +In-Reply-To: <20030812142856.GB12701@libertyrms.info> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308120936.21099.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/207 +X-Sequence-Number: 3024 + +People: + +> On Mon, Aug 11, 2003 at 10:58:18PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: +> > 1. Nobody has gone through any formal proofs, and there are few +> > systems _anywhere_ that are 100% reliable. +> +> I think the problem is that ext2 is known to be not perfectly crash +> safe. That is, fsck on reboot after a crash can cause, in some +> extreme cases, recently-fscynced data to end up in lost+found/. The +> data may or may not be recoverable from there. + +Aside from that, as recently as eighteen months ago I had to manually fsck an +ext2 system after an unexpected power-out. After my interactive session the +system recovered and no data was lost. However, the client lost 3.5 hours of +work time ... 2.5 hours for me to get to the site, and 1 hour to recover the +server (mostly waiting time). + +So it's a tradeoff with loss of performance vs. recovery time. In a server +room with redundant backup power supplies, "clean room" security and +fail-over services, I can certainly imagine that data journalling would not +be needed. That is, however, the minority ... + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 13:47:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE4D0D1C4D0 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:47:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 83987-02 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:46:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6C8D1C4BA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:47:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19mcIp-0005Da-00 + for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:47:19 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id E43B6D0AE; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:47:18 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:47:18 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: On Linux Filesystems +Message-ID: <20030812164718.GC12976@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> + + <20030812142856.GB12701@libertyrms.info> + <200308120936.21099.josh@agliodbs.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <200308120936.21099.josh@agliodbs.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/208 +X-Sequence-Number: 3025 + +On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 09:36:21AM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: +> So it's a tradeoff with loss of performance vs. recovery time. In +> a server room with redundant backup power supplies, "clean room" +> security and fail-over services, I can certainly imagine that data +> journalling would not be needed. + +You can have all the redundant power, high availability hardware, and +ultra-Robocop security going, and still have crashes: so far as I +know, _nobody_ makes perfectly reliable hardware, and the harder you +push it, the more likely you are to find trouble. And certainly, +when you have a surprise outage because the CPU where the kernel +happened to be burned itself up, an extra hour or two offline while +you do fsck is liable to make you cry out variations of those four +letters more than once. :-/ + +A +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 14:26:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81BE6D1C4CC + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:26:07 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 84633-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:24:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.travelamericas.com (dsl231-059-037.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net + [216.231.59.37]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 050AAD1C4BA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:25:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 20346 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2003 17:26:17 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO travelamericas.com) (127.0.0.1) + by localhost with SMTP; 12 Aug 2003 17:26:17 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F392339.5000007@travelamericas.com> +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:26:17 -0700 +From: Chris Travers +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: xin fu +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: about performance of postgreSQL +References: <20030812023504.27034.qmail@web15106.mail.bjs.yahoo.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030812023504.27034.qmail@web15106.mail.bjs.yahoo.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/209 +X-Sequence-Number: 3026 + +Hi Xin; + +PostgreSQL is configured to run on virutally anything out of the box. +The reason for this is that, like Oracle, the database manager will not +start if it cannot allocate sufficient resources. We take the approach +of ensuring that it will start so you can tune it. + +I would recomment trying to take a close look at many of the posts on +the Performance list (searching the archives) and paying attention to +things such as effective_cache_size and shared_buffers. If these don't +answer your questions, ask this list again. + +Best Wishes, +Chris Travers + + +xin fu wrote: + +> Dear master: +> I have learned postgreSQL for serveral days, now i meet some problems. +> when I use a TPCC(Transaction Processing Performance Council) test +> program to test the performance of postgreSQL , postgreSQL works very +> slowly, it almost need 1 minute to finish a transaction, and the CPU +> percent is almost 100%, +> the test environment is : +> OS: redhat 9.0(ext3, default configurations) +> Server: postgre7.3.4(default configurations) , PIII 800M, 1G Memory +> Client: tpcc test program,using ODBC API, PIII 800M, 1G Memory +> when using SQLServer, it can work on a workload of 40 Warehouse, +> but postgreSQL can not work even on 1 warehouse. I think there must be +> some problem with my postgreSQL, can you help me? +> I am in china, and my english is very poor, but i hope you can give +> me some advice, thanks. +> +> +> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ +> *Do You Yahoo!?* +> ���ڴ�Ƭ����Ż�ͨ ��������ͷ+�Ż�ͨ��Ƶ�������������� +> + + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 14:30:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7AB9D1B524 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:30:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 85021-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:29:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ucsns.ucs.co.za (ucs.co.za [196.23.43.2]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A72F2D1B523 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:30:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ucspost.ucs.co.za (mailgw1.ucs.co.za [196.23.43.253]) + by ucsns.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with ESMTP + id EEE812BD54; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:30:02 +0200 (SAST) +Received: from jhb.ucs.co.za (jhb.ucs.co.za [172.31.1.3]) + by ucspost.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 72A8BDAC50; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:30:11 +0200 (SAST) +Received: from svb.ucs.co.za (svb.ucs.co.za [172.31.1.148]) + by jhb.ucs.co.za (Postfix) with SMTP + id EB4E9973EA; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:30:10 +0200 (SAST) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:30:10 +0200 +From: Stef +To: Tom Lane +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Analyze makes queries slow... +Message-Id: <20030812193010.701de1ee.svb@ucs.co.za> +In-Reply-To: <5167.1060626303@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <20030811155841.483ffd93.svb@ucs.co.za> + <2934.1060616625@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811184736.7e191a86.svb@ucs.co.za> + <5167.1060626303@sss.pgh.pa.us> +X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.4claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) +User-Agent: sillypheed-claws (anti-aliased) +X-Face: + LV^-*d3kQlL,6{Y:X)M~tuL#y!p.kO_Qbc!xxqhZC4s}Y]L0g)z^aiLsQGY34d|}Xp:HNm)MRsc?^?ZQ}smznF&jx|w@,a**K&QL.Dc~2~M5V`zb>hExCJDB[[o=M)e"; + k-n[7tz2TY7+; *_xX's(5cUEtdw*yG-OmKm}6($zpUz8S`Nz@w +X-Operating-System: sid +X-X-X: _-^-_ +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; + boundary="Multipart_Tue__12_Aug_2003_19:30:10_+0200_08834680" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/210 +X-Sequence-Number: 3027 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +--Multipart_Tue__12_Aug_2003_19:30:10_+0200_08834680 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:25:03 -0400 +Tom Lane wrote: + +=> set enable_mergejoin to off; +=> explain analyze ... query ... +=> +=> If it finishes in a reasonable amount of time, send the explain output. + +Hi again, + +I did this on the 7.3.1 database, and attached the output. +It actually ran faster after ANALYZE and 'set enable_mergejoin to off' +Thanks! + +I also reloaded this database onto 7.3.4, tried the same query after +the ANALYZE, and the query executed a lot faster. +Thanks again! + +I also attached the output of the EXPLAIN ANALYZE on 7.3.4 + +For now I'll maybe just disable mergejoin. But definitely a postgres +upgrade is what I will do. + +I went through the different outputs of EXPLAIN ANALYZE a bit, and +I think I can now see where the difference is. + +Thanks a lot for the help. + +Regards +Stefan. + +--Multipart_Tue__12_Aug_2003_19:30:10_+0200_08834680 +Content-Type: text/plain; + name="expl_anlyze_nomergejoin_7.3.1.txt" +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="expl_anlyze_nomergejoin_7.3.1.txt" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + + Aggregate (cost=103991.51..103999.75 rows=27 width=241) (actual time=77907.78..83292.51 rows=125803 loops=1) + -> Group (cost=103991.51..103996.32 rows=274 width=241) (actual time=77907.61..79449.70 rows=125803 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=103991.51..103992.20 rows=274 width=241) (actual time=77907.58..78149.54 rows=125803 loops=1) + Sort Key: m.group_code, m.sku, m.brn_code, m.stktype_code, ss.supplier_price_curr_cost, sk.sku_price_curr_cost + -> Hash Join (cost=2599.45..103980.40 rows=274 width=241) (actual time=2527.34..73353.16 rows=125803 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".country_code = "inner".from_ctry) + -> Nested Loop (cost=2585.54..103961.83 rows=12 width=223) (actual time=2504.90..71966.16 rows=125803 loops=1) + Join Filter: (("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg) AND ("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_cde) AND ("inner".sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku)) + -> Hash Join (cost=2585.54..103611.37 rows=60 width=179) (actual time=2411.76..46771.60 rows=125803 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".brn_code = "inner".brn_code) + -> Hash Join (cost=2575.07..103599.70 rows=60 width=164) (actual time=2410.16..44730.60 rows=125803 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".brn_code = "inner".branch_cde) + Join Filter: (("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_code) AND ("outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg)) + -> Hash Join (cost=2570.54..103586.96 rows=299 width=135) (actual time=2402.43..39292.85 rows=629015 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".sku = "inner".sku) + Join Filter: (("outer".group_code = "inner".group_code) AND ("inner".supplier_cde = "outer".supplier_code)) + -> Seq Scan on master_fpp_values m (cost=0.00..98545.54 rows=220358 width=54) (actual time=1013.70..28087.16 rows=162226 loops=1) + Filter: (fpp_code = '200307'::text) + -> Hash (cost=2542.25..2542.25 rows=11318 width=81) (actual time=1388.58..1388.58 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=543.67..2542.25 rows=11318 width=81) (actual time=188.63..1277.34 rows=54675 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".sku_mst_cde = "inner".sku) + Join Filter: ("outer".group_cde = "inner".group_code) + -> Seq Scan on supplier_price ss (cost=0.00..1418.75 rows=54675 width=54) (actual time=5.94..553.10 rows=54675 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=516.06..516.06 rows=11042 width=27) (actual time=182.53..182.53 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using master_sku_descr_idx11 on master_sku_descr s (cost=0.00..516.06 rows=11042 width=27) (actual time=19.15..160.75 rows=10936 loops=1) + Index Cond: (control_code = '0'::text) + -> Hash (cost=4.02..4.02 rows=202 width=29) (actual time=7.51..7.51 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on price_tmpl_det p (cost=0.00..4.02 rows=202 width=29) (actual time=6.46..7.16 rows=202 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=9.98..9.98 rows=198 width=15) (actual time=1.41..1.41 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on master_branch_descr b (cost=0.00..9.98 rows=198 width=15) (actual time=0.09..1.08 rows=198 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using idx_sku_price on sku_price sk (cost=0.00..5.83 rows=1 width=44) (actual time=0.17..0.17 rows=1 loops=125803) + Index Cond: ((sk.group_cde = "outer".group_cde) AND (sk.sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku_mst_cde) AND (sk.price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND (sk.price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg)) + -> Hash (cost=13.90..13.90 rows=4 width=18) (actual time=22.28..22.28 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using forex_idx1 on forex f (cost=0.00..13.90 rows=4 width=18) (actual time=22.22..22.26 rows=4 loops=1) + Index Cond: ((to_ctry = 'ZAF'::text) AND (fpp_code = '200307'::text)) + Total runtime: 83938.26 msec +(36 rows) + +--Multipart_Tue__12_Aug_2003_19:30:10_+0200_08834680 +Content-Type: text/plain; + name="expl_anlyze_nomergejoin_7.3.4.txt" +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="expl_anlyze_nomergejoin_7.3.4.txt" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + + Aggregate (cost=100832.75..100839.08 rows=21 width=241) (actual time=124406.04..130113.77 rows=125769 loops=1) + -> Group (cost=100832.75..100836.44 rows=211 width=241) (actual time=124405.89..126257.32 rows=125769 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=100832.75..100833.28 rows=211 width=241) (actual time=124405.86..124640.33 rows=125769 loops=1) + Sort Key: m.group_code, m.sku, m.brn_code, m.stktype_code, ss.supplier_price_curr_cost, sk.sku_price_curr_cost + -> Merge Join (cost=100824.44..100824.62 rows=211 width=241) (actual time=105588.22..107495.57 rows=125769 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".country_code = "inner".from_ctry) + -> Sort (cost=100810.50..100810.52 rows=9 width=223) (actual time=105562.94..105882.26 rows=125769 loops=1) + Sort Key: b.country_code + -> Nested Loop (cost=3149.50..100810.35 rows=9 width=223) (actual time=3438.71..101078.92 rows=125769 loops=1) + Join Filter: (("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg) AND ("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_cde) AND ("inner".sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku)) + -> Hash Join (cost=3149.50..100551.84 rows=44 width=179) (actual time=3405.53..63392.62 rows=125769 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".brn_code = "inner".brn_code) + -> Hash Join (cost=3139.03..100540.48 rows=44 width=164) (actual time=3403.98..60948.65 rows=125769 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".brn_code = "inner".branch_cde) + Join Filter: (("inner".group_cde = "outer".group_code) AND ("outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "inner".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND ("outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "inner".price_tmpl_hdr_reg)) + -> Hash Join (cost=3134.50..100529.68 rows=228 width=135) (actual time=3392.93..51324.39 rows=628845 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".sku = "inner".sku) + Join Filter: (("outer".group_code = "inner".group_code) AND ("inner".supplier_cde = "outer".supplier_code)) + -> Seq Scan on master_fpp_values m (cost=0.00..90519.23 rows=176470 width=54) (actual time=978.39..24186.16 rows=162115 loops=1) + Filter: (fpp_code = '200307'::text) + -> Hash (cost=2957.40..2957.40 rows=11240 width=81) (actual time=2414.25..2414.25 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=543.88..2957.40 rows=11240 width=81) (actual time=502.21..2278.41 rows=54670 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".sku_mst_cde = "inner".sku) + Join Filter: ("outer".group_cde = "inner".group_code) + -> Seq Scan on supplier_price ss (cost=0.00..1421.17 rows=54917 width=54) (actual time=0.10..343.54 rows=54670 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=515.77..515.77 rows=11243 width=27) (actual time=501.90..501.90 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using master_sku_descr_idx11 on master_sku_descr s (cost=0.00..515.77 rows=11243 width=27) (actual time=37.37..477.86 rows=10935 loops=1) + Index Cond: (control_code = '0'::text) + -> Hash (cost=4.02..4.02 rows=202 width=29) (actual time=10.81..10.81 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on price_tmpl_det p (cost=0.00..4.02 rows=202 width=29) (actual time=9.67..10.45 rows=202 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=9.98..9.98 rows=198 width=15) (actual time=1.43..1.43 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on master_branch_descr b (cost=0.00..9.98 rows=198 width=15) (actual time=0.11..1.08 rows=198 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using pk_sku_price on sku_price sk (cost=0.00..5.83 rows=1 width=44) (actual time=0.25..0.26 rows=1 loops=125769) + Index Cond: ((sk.group_cde = "outer".group_cde) AND (sk.sku_mst_cde = "outer".sku_mst_cde) AND (sk.price_tmpl_hdr_cde = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_cde) AND (sk.price_tmpl_hdr_reg = "outer".price_tmpl_hdr_reg)) + -> Sort (cost=13.94..13.95 rows=4 width=18) (actual time=25.22..113.25 rows=9906 loops=1) + Sort Key: f.from_ctry + -> Index Scan using forex_idx1 on forex f (cost=0.00..13.90 rows=4 width=18) (actual time=24.94..25.00 rows=4 loops=1) + Index Cond: ((to_ctry = 'ZAF'::text) AND (fpp_code = '200307'::text)) + Total runtime: 130815.00 msec +(39 rows) + + +--Multipart_Tue__12_Aug_2003_19:30:10_+0200_08834680-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 15:03:29 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E60AD1B539 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:03:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 92636-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:01:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7EED1C4BA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:03:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3506096; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:03:22 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="gb2312" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Chris Travers , + xin fu +Subject: Re: about performance of postgreSQL +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:02:01 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <20030812023504.27034.qmail@web15106.mail.bjs.yahoo.com> + <3F392339.5000007@travelamericas.com> +In-Reply-To: <3F392339.5000007@travelamericas.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308121102.01961.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/211 +X-Sequence-Number: 3028 + +Xin, + +> I would recomment trying to take a close look at many of the posts on +> the Performance list (searching the archives) and paying attention to +> things such as effective_cache_size and shared_buffers. If these don't +> answer your questions, ask this list again. + +Also see these articles: +http://www.varlena.com/varlena/GeneralBits/Tidbits/perf.html +http://www.varlena.com/varlena/GeneralBits/Tidbits/annotated_conf_e.html + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 15:42:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689D3D1C4DB + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:39:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 02216-06 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:37:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta6.adelphia.net (mta6.adelphia.net [64.8.50.190]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C021D1C4CD + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:39:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta6.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030812183920.FORR8257.mta6.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:39:20 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F393457.1020003@potentialtech.com> +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:39:19 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +References: <184401c3606b$c7459860$2800a8c0@mars> + <3F38D9DE.20174.1E36D1C5@localhost> +In-Reply-To: <3F38D9DE.20174.1E36D1C5@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/215 +X-Sequence-Number: 3032 + +Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> On 11 Aug 2003 at 23:42, Ron Johnson wrote: +> +> +>>On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 19:50, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +>> +>>>>Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +>>>>features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +>>>>attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +>>>>until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +>>>>2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +>>>>taking a risk[1]. +>>> +>>>Dudes, seriously - switch to FreeBSD :P +>> +>>But, like, we want a *good* OS... 8-0 +> +> +> Joke aside, I guess since postgresql is pretty much reliant on file system for +> basic file functionality, I guess it's time to test Linux 2.6 and compare it. +> +> And don't forget, for large databases, there is still XFS out there which is +> probably the ruler at upper end.. + +This is going to push the whole thing a little off-topic, but I'm curious to +know the answer. + +Has it ever been proposed or attemped to run PostgreSQL without any filesystem +(or any other database for that matter ...). + +Meaning ... just tell it a raw partition to keep the data on and Postgre would +create its own "filesystem" ... obviously, doing that would allow Postgre to +bypass all the failings of all filesystems and rely entirely apon its own +rules. + +Or are modern filesystems advanced enough that doing something like that would +lose more than it would gain? + +Just thinking out loud. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 15:41:20 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D60D1C4BA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:40:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 02708-04 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:38:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1772D1B561 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:40:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7CIdtF07858; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:39:55 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308121839.h7CIdtF07858@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <20030812050809.GC76772@home.samurai.com> +To: Neil Conway +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:39:55 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Reece Hart , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/214 +X-Sequence-Number: 3031 + + +OK, I got some hard evidence. Here is a discussion on the Linux kernel +mailing list with postings from Allen Cox (ac Linux kernels) and Stephen +Tweedie (ext3 author). + + http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/subject.html#start + +Search for "softupdates and ext2". + +Here is the original email in the thread: + + http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0498.html + +Summary is at: + + http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0571.html + +and conclusion in: + + http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0504.html + +I now remember the issue --- ext2 makes all disk changes asynchonously +(unless you mount it via sync, which is slow). This means that the file +system isn't always consistent on disk. + +UFS has always sync metadata (file/directory creation) to the disk so +the disk was always consistent, but doesn't sync the data to the disk, +for performance reasons. With soft updates, the metadata writes are +delayed, and written to disk in an order that keeps the file system +consistent. + +Is this enough evidence, or should I keep researching? + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +Neil Conway wrote: +> On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 12:52:46AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> I don't use Linux and was just repeating what I had heard from others, +> > and read in postings. I don't have any first-hand experience with ext2 +> > (except for a laptop I borrowed that wouldn't boot after being shut +> > off), but others on this mailing list have said the same thing. +> +> Right, and I understand the need to answer users asking about +> which filesystem to use, but I'd be cautious of bad-mouthing +> another OSS project without any hard evidence to back up our +> claim (of course if we have such evidence, then fine -- I +> just haven't seen it). It would be like $SOME_LARGE_OSS +> project saying "Don't use our project with PostgreSQL, as +> foo@bar.org had data corruption with PostgreSQL 6.3 on +> UnixWare" -- kind of annoying, right? +> +> > > (a) ext3 does metadata-only journalling by default +> > +> > If that is true, why was I told people have to mount their ext3 file +> > systems with metadata-only. Again, I have no experience myself, but why +> > are people telling me this? +> +> Perhaps they were suggesting that people mount ext2 using +> data=writeback, rather than the default of data=ordered. +> +> BTW, I've heard from a couple different people that using +> ext3 with data=journalled (i.e. enabling journalling of both +> data and metadata) actually makes PostgreSQL faster, as +> it means that ext3 can skip PostgreSQL's fsync request +> since ext3's log is flushed to disk already. I haven't +> tested this myself, however. +> +> -Neil +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? +> +> http://archives.postgresql.org +> + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 15:55:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 247B0D1C4D0 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:55:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 02301-09 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:54:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BD1D1B4E2 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:55:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19meJ1-0007PX-00 + for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:55:39 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id 7410FD0B6; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:55:39 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:55:39 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030812185539.GB13448@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + PgSQL Performance ML +References: <184401c3606b$c7459860$2800a8c0@mars> + <3F38D9DE.20174.1E36D1C5@localhost> + <3F393457.1020003@potentialtech.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F393457.1020003@potentialtech.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/216 +X-Sequence-Number: 3033 + +On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 02:39:19PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: +> Meaning ... just tell it a raw partition to keep the data on and +> Postgre would create its own "filesystem" ... obviously, doing that +> would allow Postgre to bypass all the failings of all filesystems +> and rely entirely apon its own rules. +> +> Or are modern filesystems advanced enough that doing something like +> that would lose more than it would gain? + +The latter, mostly. This has been debated repeatedly on -hackers. +If you want "raw" access, then you have to implement some other kind +of specialised filesystem of your own. And you have to have all +sorts of nice tools to cope with the things that (for instance) fsck +handles. I think the reaction of most developers has been, "Why +reinvent the wheel?" + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 16:30:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC3CBD1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:30:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 07066-05 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:29:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from loki.globexplorer.com (unknown [208.35.14.10]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873DFD1B4E2 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:30:41 -0300 (ADT) +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 +content-class: urn:content-classes:message +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="Windows-1252" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:30:43 -0700 +Message-ID: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> +X-MS-Has-Attach: +X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: +Thread-Topic: [PERFORM] Perfomance Tuning +Thread-Index: AcNhAYL2x0+rgxkpQiezI+zu1bNKBAABmDON +From: "Gregory S. Williamson" +To: "Bill Moran" +Cc: "PgSQL Performance ML" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/217 +X-Sequence-Number: 3034 + +FWIW, Informix can be run using a "cooked" (Unix) file for storing data or = +it uses "raw" disk space and bypasses the ordinary (high level) UNIX contro= +llers and does its own reads/writes. About 10 times faster and safer. Of co= +urse, itmay have taken a lot of programmer time to make that solid. But the= + performance gains are significant. + +Greg W. + + +-----Original Message----- +From: Bill Moran [mailto:wmoran@potentialtech.com] +Sent: Tue 8/12/2003 11:39 AM +To:=09 +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Perfomance Tuning + +Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> On 11 Aug 2003 at 23:42, Ron Johnson wrote: +>=20 +>=20 +>>On Mon, 2003-08-11 at 19:50, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +>> +>>>>Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +>>>>features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +>>>>attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +>>>>until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +>>>>2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +>>>>taking a risk[1]. +>>> +>>>Dudes, seriously - switch to FreeBSD :P +>> +>>But, like, we want a *good* OS... 8-0 +>=20 +>=20 +> Joke aside, I guess since postgresql is pretty much reliant on file syste= +m for=20 +> basic file functionality, I guess it's time to test Linux 2.6 and compare= + it. +>=20 +> And don't forget, for large databases, there is still XFS out there which= + is=20 +> probably the ruler at upper end.. + +This is going to push the whole thing a little off-topic, but I'm curious to +know the answer. + +Has it ever been proposed or attemped to run PostgreSQL without any filesys= +tem +(or any other database for that matter ...). + +Meaning ... just tell it a raw partition to keep the data on and Postgre wo= +uld +create its own "filesystem" ... obviously, doing that would allow Postgre to +bypass all the failings of all filesystems and rely entirely apon its own +rules. + +Or are modern filesystems advanced enough that doing something like that wo= +uld +lose more than it would gain? + +Just thinking out loud. + +--=20 +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 16:46:20 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64917D1B550 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:46:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 04745-10 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:44:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.int.nxad.com (internal.ext.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C8C2D1B4E2 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:46:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.int.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 8616E20F01; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:46:09 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:46:09 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: "scott.marlowe" +Cc: Christopher Kings-Lynne , + Andrew Sullivan , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030812194609.GC82366@perrin.int.nxad.com> +References: <184401c3606b$c7459860$2800a8c0@mars> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/218 +X-Sequence-Number: 3035 + +> > > Well, yeah. But given the Linux propensity for introducing major +> > > features in "minor" releases (and thereby introducing all the +> > > attendant bugs), I'd think twice about using _any_ Linux feature +> > > until it's been through a major version (e.g. things introduced in +> > > 2.4.x won't really be stable until 2.6.x) -- and even there one is +> > > taking a risk[1]. +> > +> > Dudes, seriously - switch to FreeBSD :P +> +> Yeah, it's nice to have a BUG FREE OS huh? ;^) +> +> And yes, I've used FreeBSD, it's quite good, but I kept getting the +> feeling it wasn't quite done. Especially the installation +> documentation. + +While the handbook isn't the same as reading the actual source or the +only FreeBSD documentation, it certainly is quite good (to the point +that publishers see small market to publish FreeBSD books because the +documentation provided by the project is so good), IMHO. + +http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ + +If anyone on this list has any issues with the documentation, please +take them up with me _privately_ and I will do my best to either +address or correct the problem. + +Now, back to our regularly scheduled and on topic programming... -sc + +-- +Sean Chittenden +"(PostgreSQL|FreeBSD).org - The Power To Serve" + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 17:11:04 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF1ED1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:10:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 07041-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:09:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B88D1C4D5 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:10:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3506609; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:11:03 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="windows-1252" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: "Gregory S. Williamson" , + "Bill Moran" +Subject: Re: Filesystems WAS: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:09:42 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: "PgSQL Performance ML" +References: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> +In-Reply-To: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308121309.42169.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/219 +X-Sequence-Number: 3036 + +Greg, + +> FWIW, Informix can be run using a "cooked" (Unix) file for storing data or +> it uses "raw" disk space and bypasses the ordinary (high level) UNIX +> controllers and does its own reads/writes. About 10 times faster and safer. +> Of course, itmay have taken a lot of programmer time to make that solid. +> But the performance gains are significant. + +Yes, but it's still slower than PostgreSQL on medium-end hardware. ;-) + +This idea has been discussed numerous times on the HACKERS list, and is a +(pretty much) closed issue. While Oracle and SQL Server use their own +filesystems, PostgreSQL will not because: + +1) It would interfere with our cross-platform compatibility. PostgreSQL runs +on something like 20 OSes. + +2) The filesystem projects out there are (mostly) well-staffed and are +constantly advancing using specialized technology and theory. There's no way +that the PostgreSQL team can do a better job in our "spare time". + +3) Development of our "own" filesystem would then require PostgreSQL to create +and maintain a whole hardware compatibility library, and troubleshoot +problems on exotic hardware and wierd RAID configurations. + +4) A database FS also often causes side-effect problems; for example, one +cannot move or copy a SQL Server partition without destroying it. + +Of course, that could all change if some corp with deep pockets steps in an +decides to create a "postgresFS" and funds and staffs the effort 100%. But +it's unlikely to be a priority for the existing development team any time in +the forseeable future. + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 17:33:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF29ED1C4B8 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:32:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 07855-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:31:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from krusty-motorsports.com (krusty-motorsports.com [192.94.170.8]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147C2D1C4CA + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:32:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [24.194.112.77] (helo=skipper.averillpark.net) + by krusty-motorsports.com with asmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) + (Exim 4.14) id 19mfon-0007Zf-Rx + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:32:33 +0000 +Received: from rwelty by skipper.averillpark.net with local (Exim 4.14) + id 19mfnc-0007W1-8n + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:31:20 -0400 +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:31:19 -0400 (EDT) +From: Richard Welty +Subject: Re: Filesystems WAS: Perfomance Tuning +To: PgSQL Performance ML +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII +Content-Disposition: INLINE +References: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> + <200308121309.42169.josh@agliodbs.com> +In-Reply-To: <200308121309.42169.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Mailer: Mahogany 0.64 'Sparc', compiled for Linux 2.4.9-13 i686 +Message-Id: +X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring +X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated +X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) +X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) +X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this +X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas +X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant +X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this +X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/220 +X-Sequence-Number: 3037 + +On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:09:42 -0700 Josh Berkus wrote: +> This idea has been discussed numerous times on the HACKERS list, and is +> a +> (pretty much) closed issue. While Oracle and SQL Server use their own +> filesystems, PostgreSQL will not because: +... +> 2) The filesystem projects out there are (mostly) well-staffed and are +> constantly advancing using specialized technology and theory. There's +> no way +> that the PostgreSQL team can do a better job in our "spare time". + +i consider this a fair answer, but i have a slightly different question to +ask, inspired by my discussions with a good friend who is a top notch +Informix DBA. + +there are advantages to being able to split the database across a slew of +disk drives. if we accept the notion of using the native OS filesystem on +each, it would seem that being able to direct various tables and indices to +specific drives might be a valuble capability. i know that i could go into +/var/lib/pgsql/data/base and fan the contents out, but this is unweildy and +impractical. has any consideration been given to providing a way to manage +such a deployment? + +or is it the judgement of the hackers community that a monsterous raid-10 +array offers comparable performance? + +i forget how large the data store on my friend's current project is, but +i'll check. knowing the size and transaction rate he's dealing with might +put a finer point on this discussion. + +richard +-- +Richard Welty rwelty@averillpark.net +Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 + Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 17:40:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AEB0D1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:40:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 12617-03 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:38:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F15D1B56C + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:40:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19mfwM-0000mT-00 + for ; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:40:22 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id 4A4B4D0C4; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:40:22 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:40:22 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Filesystems WAS: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030812204022.GJ13448@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + PgSQL Performance ML +References: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> + <200308121309.42169.josh@agliodbs.com> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/221 +X-Sequence-Number: 3038 + +On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 04:31:19PM -0400, Richard Welty wrote: +> impractical. has any consideration been given to providing a way to manage +> such a deployment? + +Plenty. No-one's completed an implementation yet. + +> or is it the judgement of the hackers community that a monsterous raid-10 +> array offers comparable performance? + +It's tough to say, but I _can_ tell you that, so far in my tests, +I've never been able to prove an advantage in separating even the WAL +on a Sun A5200. That's not a result yet, of course, just a bit of +gossip. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 17:43:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E39D1C4B8 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:40:58 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 09826-07 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:39:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0B2FD1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:40:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 228421024D; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:33:12 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.6] (unknown [10.0.2.6]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 9D0E810248; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:33:09 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Filesystems WAS: Perfomance Tuning +From: Rod Taylor +To: Richard Welty +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: +References: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> + <200308121309.42169.josh@agliodbs.com> + +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-0YNb9Wokr6KuaDgwG8iU" +Message-Id: <1060720839.83667.55.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:40:40 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/222 +X-Sequence-Number: 3039 + +--=-0YNb9Wokr6KuaDgwG8iU +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +> specific drives might be a valuble capability. i know that i could go into +> /var/lib/pgsql/data/base and fan the contents out, but this is unweildy a= +nd +> impractical. has any consideration been given to providing a way to manage +> such a deployment? + +The ability to take various database objects and store them in different +locations, sometimes referred to as table spaces, will probably be done +in the future. There was a substantial group not all that long ago that +was organizing to complete the implementation. + +> or is it the judgement of the hackers community that a monsterous raid-10 +> array offers comparable performance? + +Often performs well enough... But a raid-10 for data, a stripe for +indexes, and a mirror for WAL will offer better performance :) + +--=-0YNb9Wokr6KuaDgwG8iU +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/OVDH6DETLow6vwwRAoA+AJ4x2flyqEi5CgjQiXcfg3Ng4t+5YQCfWrxA +x0+BaI1OjfZmPMpK4/d+Lgg= +=5Cas +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-0YNb9Wokr6KuaDgwG8iU-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 08:54:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C66D1B524 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:49:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 03807-10 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:47:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44AD4D1B52C + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:49:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7DBn1ek062961 + for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:49:02 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7DBRS2c057845 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:27:28 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:43:29 -0400 +Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc +Lines: 33 +Message-ID: +References: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? +X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ +X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne +X-Emacs-Acronym: Embarrassingly Mundane Advertising Cuts Sales +Microsoft: We've got the solution for the problem we sold you. +X-Uboat-Death-Message: NETSCAPE. ATTACKED. LEAVE BOAT. U-86. +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:2WRqMdi41uN5e2llTBmEpO2bSn8= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/231 +X-Sequence-Number: 3048 + +Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing whengsw@globexplorer.com ("Gregory S. Williamson")wrote: +> FWIW, Informix can be run using a "cooked" (Unix) file for storing +> data or it uses "raw" disk space and bypasses the ordinary (high +> level) UNIX controllers and does its own reads/writes. About 10 +> times faster and safer. Of course, itmay have taken a lot of +> programmer time to make that solid. But the performance gains are +> significant. + +Are you _certain_ that's still true? Have you a metric that shows +Informix being 10x faster on a modern system? That would be quite +surprising... + +It may have been true on '80s style UFS implementations, but a couple +of decades have passed, and pretty much any Unix system has new +selections of filesystems that probably aren't so much slower. + +It could conceivably be an interesting idea to implement a +block-oriented filesystem where the granularity of files was 8K (or +some such number :-)). + +Oracle seems to have done something vaguely like this... +http://otn.oracle.com/tech/linux/open_source.html + +But long and short is that the guys implementing OSes have been +putting a LOT of effort into making the potential performance gains of +using "raw" partitions less and less. +-- +select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'acm.org'; +http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sap.html +(eq? 'truth 'beauty) ; to avoid unassigned-var error, since compiled code + ; will pick up previous value to var set!-ed, + ; the unassigned object. +-- from BBN-CL's cl-parser.scm + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 22:40:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F844D1C4B8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 01:40:44 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 40253-05 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:39:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB080D1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:40:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7D1eNLt021506; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:40:24 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <1da301c3613c$f8716960$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Richard Welty" , + "PgSQL Performance ML" +References: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> + <200308121309.42169.josh@agliodbs.com> + +Subject: Re: Filesystems WAS: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:48:18 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/223 +X-Sequence-Number: 3040 + +> there are advantages to being able to split the database across a slew of +> disk drives. if we accept the notion of using the native OS filesystem on +> each, it would seem that being able to direct various tables and indices +to +> specific drives might be a valuble capability. i know that i could go into +> /var/lib/pgsql/data/base and fan the contents out, but this is unweildy +and +> impractical. has any consideration been given to providing a way to manage +> such a deployment? + +We've got a little bunch of us tinkering with a tablespace implementation. +However, it's been staller for a while now. + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 22:53:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B07A1D1B539 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 01:53:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 47000-05 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:52:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from krusty-motorsports.com (krusty-motorsports.com [192.94.170.8]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01225D1B53A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:53:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [24.194.112.77] (helo=skipper.averillpark.net) + by krusty-motorsports.com with asmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) + (Exim 4.14) id 19mkpJ-0004Pj-9g + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 01:53:25 +0000 +Received: from rwelty by skipper.averillpark.net with local (Exim 4.14) + id 19mkom-0007xX-Gt + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:52:52 -0400 +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:52:52 -0400 (EDT) +From: Richard Welty +Subject: Re: Filesystems WAS: Perfomance Tuning +To: PgSQL Performance ML +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII +Content-Disposition: INLINE +References: <71E37EF6B7DCC1499CEA0316A25683280105705B@loki.globexplorer.com> + <200308121309.42169.josh@agliodbs.com> + + <1da301c3613c$f8716960$2800a8c0@mars> +In-Reply-To: <1da301c3613c$f8716960$2800a8c0@mars> +X-Mailer: Mahogany 0.64 'Sparc', compiled for Linux 2.4.9-13 i686 +Message-Id: +X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring +X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated +X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm) +X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm) +X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this +X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas +X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant +X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this +X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to . +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/224 +X-Sequence-Number: 3041 + +On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:48:18 +0800 Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +> We've got a little bunch of us tinkering with a tablespace +> implementation. +> However, it's been staller for a while now. + +interesting. i'm involved in the very early stages of a startup that is +likely to do a prototype using Java and PostgreSQL. + +tablespace and replication are issues that would weigh heavily in a +decision to stick with PostgreSQL after the prototype. + +richard +-- +Richard Welty rwelty@averillpark.net +Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 + Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 22:54:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6952CD1B539 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 01:53:58 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38842-07 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:52:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266D1D1C47A + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:53:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7D1rOL15727; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:53:24 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308130153.h7D1rOL15727@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Filesystems WAS: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <1da301c3613c$f8716960$2800a8c0@mars> +To: Christopher Kings-Lynne +Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:53:24 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Richard Welty , + PgSQL Performance ML , + swm@linuxworld.com.au +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/225 +X-Sequence-Number: 3042 + + +I think Gavin Sherry is working on this. I am CC'ing him. + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +> > there are advantages to being able to split the database across a slew of +> > disk drives. if we accept the notion of using the native OS filesystem on +> > each, it would seem that being able to direct various tables and indices +> to +> > specific drives might be a valuble capability. i know that i could go into +> > /var/lib/pgsql/data/base and fan the contents out, but this is unweildy +> and +> > impractical. has any consideration been given to providing a way to manage +> > such a deployment? +> +> We've got a little bunch of us tinkering with a tablespace implementation. +> However, it's been staller for a while now. +> +> Chris +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings +> + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 12 23:14:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F573D1C4BA + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 02:08:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 39124-08 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:07:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from linuxworld.com.au (www.linuxworld.com.au [203.34.46.50]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207A5D1B539 + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:08:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (swm@localhost) + by linuxworld.com.au (8.11.6p2/8.11.4) with ESMTP id h7D27mx32570; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:07:48 +1000 +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:07:47 +1000 (EST) +From: Gavin Sherry +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Christopher Kings-Lynne , + Richard Welty , + PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Filesystems WAS: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <200308130153.h7D1rOL15727@candle.pha.pa.us> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/226 +X-Sequence-Number: 3043 + +On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: + +> +> I think Gavin Sherry is working on this. I am CC'ing him. +> +> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +Yes I am working on this. I am about 50% of the way through the patch but +have been held up with other work. For those who are interested, it +basically allow: + +1) creation of different 'storage' locations. Tables and indexes can be +created in different storage locations. Storage locations can also be +assigned to schemas and databases. Tables and indexes will default to the +schema storage location if STORAGE 'store name' is not provided to CREATE +.... This will cascade to the default database storage location if +the schema was not created with STORAGE 'store name'. + +2) the patch will allow different storage locations to have different +rand_cost parameters passed to the planner. + +3) the patch *will not* address issues concerning quotas, resource +management, WAL/clog, temp or sort spaces. + +Will keep everyone posted if/when I finish. + +Thanks, + +Gavin + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 03:13:58 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFAAFD1C47A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:13:54 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 77460-08 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:12:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtai09.cox.net (lakemtai09.cox.net [68.1.17.123]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E631DD1C4C7 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:13:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030813033038.JZTS23518.lakemtao03.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:30:38 -0400 +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <200308121839.h7CIdtF07858@candle.pha.pa.us> +References: <200308121839.h7CIdtF07858@candle.pha.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1060745432.30778.39.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 12 Aug 2003 22:30:33 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/227 +X-Sequence-Number: 3044 + +On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 13:39, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> OK, I got some hard evidence. Here is a discussion on the Linux kernel +> mailing list with postings from Allen Cox (ac Linux kernels) and Stephen +> Tweedie (ext3 author). +> +> http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/subject.html#start +> +> Search for "softupdates and ext2". +> +> Here is the original email in the thread: +> +> http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0498.html +> +> Summary is at: +> +> http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0571.html +> +> and conclusion in: +> +> http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0504.html +> +> I now remember the issue --- ext2 makes all disk changes asynchonously +> (unless you mount it via sync, which is slow). This means that the file +> system isn't always consistent on disk. +> +> UFS has always sync metadata (file/directory creation) to the disk so +> the disk was always consistent, but doesn't sync the data to the disk, +> for performance reasons. With soft updates, the metadata writes are +> delayed, and written to disk in an order that keeps the file system +> consistent. +> +> Is this enough evidence, or should I keep researching? + +This is all 4 years old, though. Isn't that why the ext3 "layer" was +created, and filesystems like reiserFS, XFS and (kinda) JFS were added +to Linux? + +> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- +> +> Neil Conway wrote: +> > On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 12:52:46AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> > I don't use Linux and was just repeating what I had heard from others, +> > > and read in postings. I don't have any first-hand experience with ext2 +> > > (except for a laptop I borrowed that wouldn't boot after being shut +> > > off), but others on this mailing list have said the same thing. +> > +> > Right, and I understand the need to answer users asking about +> > which filesystem to use, but I'd be cautious of bad-mouthing +> > another OSS project without any hard evidence to back up our +> > claim (of course if we have such evidence, then fine -- I +> > just haven't seen it). It would be like $SOME_LARGE_OSS +> > project saying "Don't use our project with PostgreSQL, as +> > foo@bar.org had data corruption with PostgreSQL 6.3 on +> > UnixWare" -- kind of annoying, right? +> > +> > > > (a) ext3 does metadata-only journalling by default +> > > +> > > If that is true, why was I told people have to mount their ext3 file +> > > systems with metadata-only. Again, I have no experience myself, but why +> > > are people telling me this? +> > +> > Perhaps they were suggesting that people mount ext2 using +> > data=writeback, rather than the default of data=ordered. +> > +> > BTW, I've heard from a couple different people that using +> > ext3 with data=journalled (i.e. enabling journalling of both +> > data and metadata) actually makes PostgreSQL faster, as +> > it means that ext3 can skip PostgreSQL's fsync request +> > since ext3's log is flushed to disk already. I haven't +> > tested this myself, however. +> > +> > -Neil + +-- ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "Man, I'm pretty. Hoo Hah!" | +| Johnny Bravo | ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 03:30:44 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63242D1C4C7 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:30:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80395-04 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:29:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from zigo.dhs.org (as2-4-3.an.g.bonet.se [194.236.34.191]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A7ED1C4B8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:30:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from zigo.dhs.org (zigo [127.0.0.1]) + by zigo.dhs.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7D6UEMG009145; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:30:14 +0200 +Received: from localhost (db@localhost) + by zigo.dhs.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h7D6UC9t009141; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:30:14 +0200 +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:30:12 +0200 (CEST) +From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dennis_Bj=F6rklund?= +To: mixo +Cc: Bjoern Metzdorf , + +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <3F389449.8050305@coza.net.za> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/228 +X-Sequence-Number: 3045 + +On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, mixo wrote: + +> that I am currently importing data into Pg which is about 2.9 Gigs. +> Unfortunately, to maintain data intergrity, data is inserted into a table +> one row at a time.' + +So you don't put a number of inserts into one transaction? + +If you don't do that then postgresql will treat each command as a +transaction and each insert is going to be forced out on disk (returning +when the data is just in some cache is not safe even if other products +might do that). If you don't do this then the server promise the client +that the row have been stored but then the server goes down and the row +that was in the cache is lost. It's much faster but not what you expect +from a real database. + +So, group the inserts in transactions with maybe 1000 commands each. It +will go much faster. It can then cache the rows and in the end just make +sure all 1000 have been written out on disk. + +There is also a configuration variable that can tell postgresql to not +wait until the insert is out on disk, but that is not recomended if you +value your data. + +And last, why does it help integrity to insert data one row at a time? + +-- +/Dennis + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 03:39:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C68D1C4B8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:39:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 77730-09 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:37:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3D3D1C47A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:39:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7D6cwLt028010; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:38:58 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <1f8901c36166$b50cf6b0$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dennis_Bj=F6rklund?= , + "mixo" +Cc: "Bjoern Metzdorf" , + +References: +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:47:03 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/229 +X-Sequence-Number: 3046 + +> So, group the inserts in transactions with maybe 1000 commands each. It +> will go much faster. It can then cache the rows and in the end just make +> sure all 1000 have been written out on disk. + +More than that, he should be using COPY - it's 10x faster than even grouped +inserts. + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 07:33:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EAD0D1C4CD + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:33:56 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 00314-07 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:32:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A999D1C4CA + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:33:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao01.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030813103348.CILA7142.lakemtao01.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:33:48 -0400 +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <1f8901c36166$b50cf6b0$2800a8c0@mars> +References: + <1f8901c36166$b50cf6b0$2800a8c0@mars> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1060770827.30778.130.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 13 Aug 2003 05:33:47 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/230 +X-Sequence-Number: 3047 + +On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 01:47, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +> > So, group the inserts in transactions with maybe 1000 commands each. It +> > will go much faster. It can then cache the rows and in the end just make +> > sure all 1000 have been written out on disk. +> +> More than that, he should be using COPY - it's 10x faster than even grouped +> inserts. + +I have a table which has a foreign key reference to a properly indexed +table, and needed to load 15GB of uncompressed data into that table. + +Since the machine is minimal (60GB 5400RPM IDE HDD, 1GB RAM, 1GHz +Athlon), to save precious disk space, I had the data compressed into +22 files totaling 641GiB. The records are approximately 275 bytes +in size. + +Also, because date transformations needed to be made, I had to 1st +insert into a temp table, and insert from there into the main table. +Thus, in essence, I had to insert each record twice. + +So, in 8:45 (not 8 minutes 45 seconds!, decompressed 641MiB worth of +96% compressed files, inserted 30M rows, and inserted 30M rows again, +while doing foreign key checks to another table. And the data files +plus database are all on the same disk. + +Pretty impressive: 1,920 inserts/second. + +for f in ltx_*unl.gz; +do + psql test1 -c "truncate table t_lane_tx2;" ; + (zcat $f | sed "s/\"//g" | \ + psql test1 -c "copy t_lane_tx2 from stdin delimiter ',';"); + time psql -a -f sel_into_ltx.sql -d test1 ; +done + +-- ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "Man, I'm pretty. Hoo Hah!" | +| Johnny Bravo | ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 10:56:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7327D1C4C8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:55:58 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 25549-05 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:54:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FF7AD1B524 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:55:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 15525 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2003 13:55:54 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 13 Aug 2003 13:55:54 -0000 +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:55:53 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/232 +X-Sequence-Number: 3049 + +On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: + +> Are you _certain_ that's still true? Have you a metric that shows +> Informix being 10x faster on a modern system? That would be quite +> surprising... +> + +We were forced (for budget reason) to switch from raw disk to cooked files +on our informix db. We took a huge hit - about 5-6x slower. Granted part +of that was because informix takes number of spindles, etc into account +when generating query plans and the fact running UPDATE STATISTICS (think +Vacuum analyze) on the version we run locks the table exclusively. And it +is unacceptable to have our "main table" unavailable for hours and hours +while the update runs. (For the record: its a 8cpu sun e4500 running +sol2.6. The raw disks were on a hitachi fibre array and the cooked files +were on a raid5 (scsi). Forget how many spindles in the raid. +There were 20 raw disks) + +Informix, etc. have spent a lot of time and money working on it. +They also have the advantage of having many paid fulltime +developers who are doing this for a job, not as a weekend hobby +(Compared to the what? 2-3 full time PG developers). + +The other advantage (which I hinted to above) with raw disks is being able +to optimize queries to take advantage of it. Informix is multithreaded +and it will spawn off multiple "readers" to do say, a seq scan (and merge +the results at the end). + +So if you have a table across say, 3 disks and you need to do a seq scan +it will spawn three readers to do the read. Result: nice and fast (Yes, It +may not always spawn the three readers, only when it thinks it will be a +good thing to do) + +I think for PG the effort would be much better spent on other features... +like replication and whatnot. + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 11:04:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD85D1C4C8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:04:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 16330-10 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:03:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from correo (correo.qoslabs.com [157.238.87.78]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7F9D1C4B8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:04:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ldap-02.qoslabs.com (ldap-02 [172.20.1.31]) + by correo-01.qoslabs.com + (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) + with SMTP id <0HJK007NA9RARH@correo-01.qoslabs.com> for + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:04:22 -0400 (EDT) +Received: (from ingridmartinez [148.233.235.189]) + by ldap-02.qoslabs.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.12) with SMTP id + M2003081310042003352 for + ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:04:20 -0400 +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:03:31 -0500 +From: ingrid martinez +Subject: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Message-id: <001f01c361a3$ae2c7ae0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +MIME-version: 1.0 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +Content-type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="Boundary_(ID_YgqVKM6e27aF0YmARNpKMw)" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-priority: Normal +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/233 +X-Sequence-Number: 3050 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +--Boundary_(ID_YgqVKM6e27aF0YmARNpKMw) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT + +I want to know, how can I improve the performance of postgres, I have a java class thar inserts register every 30 min but is very slow. +The process of postgres consume the 78% of CPU. + +I have in /etc/system + +set shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=0x50000000 +set shmsys:shminfo_shmmni=0x100 +set shmsys:shminfo_shmseg=0x10 + + + +Thanks + +Ingrid + +--Boundary_(ID_YgqVKM6e27aF0YmARNpKMw) +Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT + + + + + + + + +
I want to know, how can I improve the performance of postgres, +I have a java class thar inserts register every 30 min but is very slow. +
+
The process of postgres consume the 78% of CPU.
+
 
+
I have in /etc/system
+
 
+
+

set +shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=0x50000000
set shmsys:shminfo_shmmni=0x100
set +shmsys:shminfo_shmseg=0x10

+

 

+

Thanks

+

Ingrid

+ +--Boundary_(ID_YgqVKM6e27aF0YmARNpKMw)-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 11:33:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD9ED1C4B8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:33:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 25564-08 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:31:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86029D1B56B + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:32:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19mwgM-0007Xp-00 + for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:32:58 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id 666DACF50; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:32:58 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:32:58 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +Message-ID: <20030813143258.GC15743@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <001f01c361a3$ae2c7ae0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <001f01c361a3$ae2c7ae0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/234 +X-Sequence-Number: 3051 + +On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 09:03:31AM -0500, ingrid martinez wrote: +> I want to know, how can I improve the performance of postgres, I +> have a java class thar inserts register every 30 min but is very +> slow. + +What does the query do? How is postgres configured? + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 11:44:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB1FD1C4B8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:44:17 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 27804-05 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:42:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF83D1B56B + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:44:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7DEbVSa023798; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:37:31 -0400 (EDT) +To: Jeff +Cc: Christopher Browne , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-reply-to: +References: +Comments: In-reply-to Jeff + message dated "Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:55:53 -0400" +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:37:31 -0400 +Message-ID: <23797.1060785451@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/235 +X-Sequence-Number: 3052 + +Jeff writes: +> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: +>> Are you _certain_ that's still true? Have you a metric that shows +>> Informix being 10x faster on a modern system? That would be quite +>> surprising... + +> We were forced (for budget reason) to switch from raw disk to cooked files +> on our informix db. We took a huge hit - about 5-6x slower. +> [snip] +> The raw disks were on a hitachi fibre array and the cooked files +> were on a raid5 (scsi). Forget how many spindles in the raid. +> There were 20 raw disks) + +Seems like you can't know how much of the performance hit was due to the +filesystem change and how much to the hardware change. But I'd bet 20 +disks on fibre array have way more net throughput than a single RAID +array on scsi. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 12:16:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801D8D1B56B + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:16:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 31058-04 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:14:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32091D1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:16:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao01.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030813151604.EXMG7142.lakemtao01.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:16:04 -0400 +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <23797.1060785451@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: + <23797.1060785451@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1060787763.3996.15.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 13 Aug 2003 10:16:03 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/236 +X-Sequence-Number: 3053 + +On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 09:37, Tom Lane wrote: +> Jeff writes: +> > On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: +> >> Are you _certain_ that's still true? Have you a metric that shows +> >> Informix being 10x faster on a modern system? That would be quite +> >> surprising... +> +> > We were forced (for budget reason) to switch from raw disk to cooked files +> > on our informix db. We took a huge hit - about 5-6x slower. +> > [snip] +> > The raw disks were on a hitachi fibre array and the cooked files +> > were on a raid5 (scsi). Forget how many spindles in the raid. +> > There were 20 raw disks) +> +> Seems like you can't know how much of the performance hit was due to the +> filesystem change and how much to the hardware change. But I'd bet 20 +> disks on fibre array have way more net throughput than a single RAID +> array on scsi. + +I wouldn't be surprised either if the fiber array had more cache +than the SCSI controller. + +Was/is the Hitachi device a SAN? + +-- ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "Man, I'm pretty. Hoo Hah!" | +| Johnny Bravo | ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 12:18:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FFB4D1B53A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:18:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33323-01 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:17:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from correo (correo.qoslabs.com [157.238.87.78]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A976BD1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:18:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ldap-02.qoslabs.com (ldap-02 [172.20.1.31]) + by correo-01.qoslabs.com + (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) + with SMTP id <0HJK0074ZD70RH@correo-01.qoslabs.com> for + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:18:37 -0400 (EDT) +Received: (from ingridmartinez [148.233.235.189]) + by ldap-02.qoslabs.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.12) with SMTP id + M2003081311183519840 ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:18:35 -0400 +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:17:45 -0500 +From: ingrid martinez +Subject: Re: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +To: Andrew Sullivan , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Message-id: <003e01c361ae$0cf914c0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +MIME-version: 1.0 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-priority: Normal +References: <001f01c361a3$ae2c7ae0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> + <20030813143258.GC15743@libertyrms.info> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/237 +X-Sequence-Number: 3054 + +The query that execute is only inserts, I use a batch of 300 and then do +commit. + +insert into FLOWS values(?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?) + +and + +postgresql.conf looks like this + + +# +# PostgreSQL configuration file +# ----------------------------- +# +# This file consists of lines of the form +# +# name = value +# +# (The `=' is optional.) White space is collapsed, comments are +# introduced by `#' anywhere on a line. The complete list of option +# names and allowed values can be found in the PostgreSQL +# documentation. The commented-out settings shown in this file +# represent the default values. + +# Any option can also be given as a command line switch to the +# postmaster, e.g., 'postmaster -c log_connections=on'. Some options +# can be changed at run-time with the 'SET' SQL command. + + +#======================================================================== + + +# +# Connection Parameters +# +#tcpip_socket = false +#ssl = false + +#max_connections = 32 + +#port = 5432 +#hostname_lookup = false +#show_source_port = false + +#unix_socket_directory = '' +#unix_socket_group = '' +#unix_socket_permissions = 0777 + +#virtual_host = '' + +#krb_server_keyfile = '' + + +# +# Shared Memory Size +# +#shared_buffers = 64 # 2*max_connections, min 16 +#max_fsm_relations = 100 # min 10, fsm is free space map +#max_fsm_pages = 10000 # min 1000, fsm is free space map +#max_locks_per_transaction = 64 # min 10 +#wal_buffers = 8 # min 4 + +# +# Non-shared Memory Sizes +# +#sort_mem = 512 # min 32 +#vacuum_mem = 8192 # min 1024 + + +# +# Write-ahead log (WAL) +# +#wal_files = 0 # range 0-64 +#wal_sync_method = fsync # the default varies across platforms: +# # fsync, fdatasync, open_sync, or open_datasync +#wal_debug = 0 # range 0-16 +#commit_delay = 0 # range 0-100000 +#commit_siblings = 5 # range 1-1000 +#checkpoint_segments = 3 # in logfile segments (16MB each), min 1 +#checkpoint_timeout = 300 # in seconds, range 30-3600 +#fsync = true + + +# +# Optimizer Parameters +# +#enable_seqscan = true +#enable_indexscan = true +#enable_tidscan = true +#enable_sort = true +#enable_nestloop = true +#enable_mergejoin = true +#enable_hashjoin = true + +#ksqo = false + +#effective_cache_size = 1000 # default in 8k pages +#random_page_cost = 4 +#cpu_tuple_cost = 0.01 +#cpu_index_tuple_cost = 0.001 +#cpu_operator_cost = 0.0025 + + +# +# GEQO Optimizer Parameters +# +#geqo = true +#geqo_selection_bias = 2.0 # range 1.5-2.0 +#geqo_threshold = 11 +#geqo_pool_size = 0 # default based on #tables in query, range +128-1024 +#geqo_effort = 1 +#geqo_generations = 0 +#geqo_random_seed = -1 # auto-compute seed + + +# +# Debug display +# +#silent_mode = false + +#log_connections = false +#log_timestamp = false +#log_pid = false + +#debug_level = 0 # range 0-16 + +#debug_print_query = false +#debug_print_parse = false +#debug_print_rewritten = false +#debug_print_plan = false +#debug_pretty_print = false + +# requires USE_ASSERT_CHECKING +#debug_assertions = true + + +# +# Syslog +# +# requires ENABLE_SYSLOG +#syslog = 0 # range 0-2 +#syslog_facility = 'LOCAL0' +#syslog_ident = 'postgres' + + +# +# Statistics +# +#show_parser_stats = false +#show_planner_stats = false +#show_executor_stats = false +#show_query_stats = false + +# requires BTREE_BUILD_STATS +#show_btree_build_stats = false + + +# +# Access statistics collection +# +#stats_start_collector = true +#stats_reset_on_server_start = true +#stats_command_string = false +#stats_row_level = false +#stats_block_level = false + + +# +# Lock Tracing +# +#trace_notify = false + +# requires LOCK_DEBUG +#trace_locks = false +#trace_userlocks = false +#trace_lwlocks = false +#debug_deadlocks = false +#trace_lock_oidmin = 16384 +#trace_lock_table = 0 + + +# +# Misc +# +#dynamic_library_path = '$libdir' +#australian_timezones = false +#authentication_timeout = 60 # min 1, max 600 +#deadlock_timeout = 1000 +#default_transaction_isolation = 'read committed' +#max_expr_depth = 10000 # min 10 +#max_files_per_process = 1000 # min 25 +#password_encryption = false +#sql_inheritance = true +#transform_null_equals = false + + + + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Andrew Sullivan" +To: +Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 9:32 AM +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] How can I Improve performance in Solaris? + + +> On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 09:03:31AM -0500, ingrid martinez wrote: +> > I want to know, how can I improve the performance of postgres, I +> > have a java class thar inserts register every 30 min but is very +> > slow. +> +> What does the query do? How is postgres configured? +> +> A +> +> -- +> ---- +> Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +> Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada +> M2P 2A8 +> +1 416 646 3304 x110 +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 12:37:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E40D8D1C4C8 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:37:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33442-03 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:36:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 935DED1B53A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:37:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7DFbGu23405; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:37:16 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308131537.h7DFbGu23405@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <1060745432.30778.39.camel@haggis> +To: Ron Johnson +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:37:16 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/238 +X-Sequence-Number: 3055 + +Ron Johnson wrote: +> On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 13:39, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> > OK, I got some hard evidence. Here is a discussion on the Linux kernel +> > mailing list with postings from Allen Cox (ac Linux kernels) and Stephen +> > Tweedie (ext3 author). +> > +> > http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/subject.html#start +> > +> > Search for "softupdates and ext2". +> > +> > Here is the original email in the thread: +> > +> > http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0498.html +> > +> > Summary is at: +> > +> > http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0571.html +> > +> > and conclusion in: +> > +> > http://www.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/1999week14/0504.html +> > +> > I now remember the issue --- ext2 makes all disk changes asynchonously +> > (unless you mount it via sync, which is slow). This means that the file +> > system isn't always consistent on disk. +> > +> > UFS has always sync metadata (file/directory creation) to the disk so +> > the disk was always consistent, but doesn't sync the data to the disk, +> > for performance reasons. With soft updates, the metadata writes are +> > delayed, and written to disk in an order that keeps the file system +> > consistent. +> > +> > Is this enough evidence, or should I keep researching? +> +> This is all 4 years old, though. Isn't that why the ext3 "layer" was + +Yes, it is four years old, but no one has told me ext2 has changed in +this regard, and seeing that they created ext3 to fix these aspects, I +would think ext2 hasn't changed. + +> created, and filesystems like reiserFS, XFS and (kinda) JFS were added +> to Linux? + +Yes, it is those ext2 limitations that caused the development of ext3 +and the others. However, they went much father than implementing a +crash-safe file system, but rather enabled a file system that doesn't +need fsck on crash reboot. This causes fsync of data and metadata (file +creation), which slows down the file system, and PostgreSQL doesn't need +it. + +You can mount ext3 and others with data=writeback to fsync only +metadata, but it isn't the default. + +I am not sure what the ext3 layer is. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 12:47:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65817D1B56B + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:47:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 30436-10 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:45:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13253D1B53A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:47:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3509123; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:47:27 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Jeff , + Christopher Browne +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:46:55 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308130846.55991.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/239 +X-Sequence-Number: 3056 + +Jeff, + +> Informix, etc. have spent a lot of time and money working on it. +> They also have the advantage of having many paid fulltime +> developers who are doing this for a job, not as a weekend hobby +> (Compared to the what? 2-3 full time PG developers). + +I think 4-6 full-time, actually, plus about 200 part-time contributors. Which +adds up to a bloody *lot* of code if you monitor pgsql-patches between +versions. The only development advantage the commercials have over us is the +ability to engage in large projects (e.g. replication, raw filesystems, etc.) +that are difficult for a distributed network of people. + +> The other advantage (which I hinted to above) with raw disks is being able +> to optimize queries to take advantage of it. Informix is multithreaded +> and it will spawn off multiple "readers" to do say, a seq scan (and merge +> the results at the end). + +I like this idea. Has it ever been discussed for PostgreSQL? Hmmm .... we'd +need to see some tests demonstrating that this approach was still a technical +advantage given the improvements in RAID and FS technology since Informix +was designed. + +As I have said elsewhere, Informix is probably a poor database to emulate +since they are effectively an old dead-end fork of the Ingres/Postgres code, +and have already been "mined" for most of the improvements they made. + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 12:50:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DB2D1C4C7 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:50:00 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 31224-07 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:48:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5D9D1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:49:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 71CDA10259; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:42:15 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.6] (unknown [10.0.2.6]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 5F8D610248; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:42:13 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +From: Rod Taylor +To: ingrid martinez +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , + Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: <003e01c361ae$0cf914c0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +References: <001f01c361a3$ae2c7ae0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> + <20030813143258.GC15743@libertyrms.info> + <003e01c361ae$0cf914c0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-W/s6Lp6iH1BGB0Ii6YHL" +Message-Id: <1060789790.11688.21.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:49:51 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/240 +X-Sequence-Number: 3057 + +--=-W/s6Lp6iH1BGB0Ii6YHL +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 11:17, ingrid martinez wrote:=20 +> The query that execute is only inserts, I use a batch of 300 and then do +> commit. +>=20 +> insert into FLOWS values(?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?) + +Any foreign keys on this table? Triggers or Rules? + +What kind of hardware do you have? Anything else running on it? + +Could you provide the header information from top? + + +Off the cuff, modify your postgresql.conf for the below and restart +PostgreSQL. + +shared_buffers =3D 1000 # 2*max_connections, min 16 +effective_cache_size =3D 4000 # default in 8k pages + + +--=-W/s6Lp6iH1BGB0Ii6YHL +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/Ol4e6DETLow6vwwRAncYAJ4kl0nTEIuJUfboPG4JWe3VYWrIFACeMeZp +Fc0qqCKlo87W51j1/t04zzE= +=vY3Y +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-W/s6Lp6iH1BGB0Ii6YHL-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 13:17:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15912D1C4D0 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:17:14 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37951-02 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:15:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE006D1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:17:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19myJ4-0000m8-00 + for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:17:02 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id 95586CF52; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:17:01 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:17:01 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +Message-ID: <20030813161701.GA599@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <001f01c361a3$ae2c7ae0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> + <20030813143258.GC15743@libertyrms.info> + <003e01c361ae$0cf914c0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <003e01c361ae$0cf914c0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/241 +X-Sequence-Number: 3058 + +On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 10:17:45AM -0500, ingrid martinez wrote: +> The query that execute is only inserts, I use a batch of 300 and then do +> commit. +> +> insert into FLOWS values(?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?) + +Are there any foreign keys, &c? + +> +> and +> +> postgresql.conf looks like this + +[ . . .] + +The configuration is the default. You'll certainly want to increase +the shared memory and fiddle with some of the other usual pieces. +There is some discussion of the config file at +. +Unless the INSERTs are causing SELECTs, though, I can't see what +exactly might be causing you so much difficulty. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 13:21:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 469FBD1C4C7 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:21:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38206-02 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:20:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from correo (correo.qoslabs.com [157.238.87.78]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89600D1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:21:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ldap-02.qoslabs.com (ldap-02 [172.20.1.31]) + by correo-01.qoslabs.com + (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) + with SMTP id <0HJK00EBEG3URF@correo-01.qoslabs.com> for + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:21:30 -0400 (EDT) +Received: (from ingridmartinez [148.233.235.189]) + by ldap-02.qoslabs.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.12) with SMTP id + M2003081312212820948 ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:21:29 -0400 +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:20:39 -0500 +From: ingrid martinez +Subject: Re: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +To: Andrew Sullivan , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Message-id: <00a001c361b6$d668a430$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +MIME-version: 1.0 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-priority: Normal +References: <001f01c361a3$ae2c7ae0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> + <20030813143258.GC15743@libertyrms.info> + <003e01c361ae$0cf914c0$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> + <20030813161701.GA599@libertyrms.info> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/242 +X-Sequence-Number: 3059 + +Floes table looks like this + + Table "flows" + Column | Type | Modifiers +----------------------+--------------------------+----------- + flidload | bigint | not null + firsttime | bigint | + fldestpeeraddress | character varying(30) | + fldesttransaddress | bigint | + fldesttranstype | smallint | + fldfromoctets | bigint | + fldscodepoint | smallint | + fldtooctets | bigint | + flfrompdus | bigint | + flid | text | + flidrule | bigint | + flsourcepeeraddress | character varying(30) | + flsourcetransaddress | bigint | + flsourcetranstype | smallint | + fltime | timestamp with time zone | + fltopdus | bigint | + lasttime | bigint | + sourceinterface | smallint | + destinterface | smallint | + sourceasn | smallint | + destasn | smallint | +Primary key: flows_pkey + + +insert into FLOWS values(?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?) + + + + +postgresql.conf looks like this + + +# +# PostgreSQL configuration file +# ----------------------------- +# +# This file consists of lines of the form +# +# name = value +# +# (The `=' is optional.) White space is collapsed, comments are +# introduced by `#' anywhere on a line. The complete list of option +# names and allowed values can be found in the PostgreSQL +# documentation. The commented-out settings shown in this file +# represent the default values. + +# Any option can also be given as a command line switch to the +# postmaster, e.g., 'postmaster -c log_connections=on'. Some options +# can be changed at run-time with the 'SET' SQL command. + + +#======================================================================== + + +# +# Connection Parameters +# +#tcpip_socket = false +#ssl = false + +#max_connections = 32 + +#port = 5432 +#hostname_lookup = false +#show_source_port = false + +#unix_socket_directory = '' +#unix_socket_group = '' +#unix_socket_permissions = 0777 + +#virtual_host = '' + +#krb_server_keyfile = '' + + +# +# Shared Memory Size +# +#shared_buffers = 64 # 2*max_connections, min 16 +#max_fsm_relations = 100 # min 10, fsm is free space map +#max_fsm_pages = 10000 # min 1000, fsm is free space map +#max_locks_per_transaction = 64 # min 10 +#wal_buffers = 8 # min 4 + +# +# Non-shared Memory Sizes +# +#sort_mem = 512 # min 32 +#vacuum_mem = 8192 # min 1024 + + +# +# Write-ahead log (WAL) +# +#wal_files = 0 # range 0-64 +#wal_sync_method = fsync # the default varies across platforms: +# # fsync, fdatasync, open_sync, or open_datasync +#wal_debug = 0 # range 0-16 +#commit_delay = 0 # range 0-100000 +#commit_siblings = 5 # range 1-1000 +#checkpoint_segments = 3 # in logfile segments (16MB each), min 1 +#checkpoint_timeout = 300 # in seconds, range 30-3600 +#fsync = true + + +# +# Optimizer Parameters +# +#enable_seqscan = true +#enable_indexscan = true +#enable_tidscan = true +#enable_sort = true +#enable_nestloop = true +#enable_mergejoin = true +#enable_hashjoin = true + +#ksqo = false + +#effective_cache_size = 1000 # default in 8k pages +#random_page_cost = 4 +#cpu_tuple_cost = 0.01 +#cpu_index_tuple_cost = 0.001 +#cpu_operator_cost = 0.0025 + + +# +# GEQO Optimizer Parameters +# +#geqo = true +#geqo_selection_bias = 2.0 # range 1.5-2.0 +#geqo_threshold = 11 +#geqo_pool_size = 0 # default based on #tables in query, range +128-1024 +#geqo_effort = 1 +#geqo_generations = 0 +#geqo_random_seed = -1 # auto-compute seed + + +# +# Debug display +# +#silent_mode = false + +#log_connections = false +#log_timestamp = false +#log_pid = false + +#debug_level = 0 # range 0-16 + +#debug_print_query = false +#debug_print_parse = false +#debug_print_rewritten = false +#debug_print_plan = false +#debug_pretty_print = false + +# requires USE_ASSERT_CHECKING +#debug_assertions = true + + +# +# Syslog +# +# requires ENABLE_SYSLOG +#syslog = 0 # range 0-2 +#syslog_facility = 'LOCAL0' +#syslog_ident = 'postgres' + + +# +# Statistics +# +#show_parser_stats = false +#show_planner_stats = false +#show_executor_stats = false +#show_query_stats = false + +# requires BTREE_BUILD_STATS +#show_btree_build_stats = false + + +# +# Access statistics collection +# +#stats_start_collector = true +#stats_reset_on_server_start = true +#stats_command_string = false +#stats_row_level = false +#stats_block_level = false + + +# +# Lock Tracing +# +#trace_notify = false + +# requires LOCK_DEBUG +#trace_locks = false +#trace_userlocks = false +#trace_lwlocks = false +#debug_deadlocks = false +#trace_lock_oidmin = 16384 +#trace_lock_table = 0 + + +# +# Misc +# +#dynamic_library_path = '$libdir' +#australian_timezones = false +#authentication_timeout = 60 # min 1, max 600 +#deadlock_timeout = 1000 +#default_transaction_isolation = 'read committed' +#max_expr_depth = 10000 # min 10 +#max_files_per_process = 1000 # min 25 +#password_encryption = false +#sql_inheritance = true +#transform_null_equals = false + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Andrew Sullivan" +To: +Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:17 AM +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] How can I Improve performance in Solaris? + + +> On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 10:17:45AM -0500, ingrid martinez wrote: +> > The query that execute is only inserts, I use a batch of 300 and then do +> > commit. +> > +> > insert into FLOWS values(?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?) +> +> Are there any foreign keys, &c? +> +> > +> > and +> > +> > postgresql.conf looks like this +> +> [ . . .] +> +> The configuration is the default. You'll certainly want to increase +> the shared memory and fiddle with some of the other usual pieces. +> There is some discussion of the config file at +> +. +> Unless the INSERTs are causing SELECTs, though, I can't see what +> exactly might be causing you so much difficulty. +> +> A +> +> -- +> ---- +> Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +> Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada +> M2P 2A8 +> +1 416 646 3304 x110 +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 13:47:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAB2D1B58A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:47:44 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 36835-04 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:46:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCD7D1B561 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:47:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7DGkmbS000852; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:46:48 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:47:36 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: ingrid martinez +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , + +Subject: Re: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +In-Reply-To: <00a001c361b6$d668a430$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/243 +X-Sequence-Number: 3060 + +On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, ingrid martinez wrote: + +> Floes table looks like this +> +> Table "flows" +> Column | Type | Modifiers +> ----------------------+--------------------------+----------- +> flidload | bigint | not null +> firsttime | bigint | +> fldestpeeraddress | character varying(30) | +> fldesttransaddress | bigint | +> fldesttranstype | smallint | +> fldfromoctets | bigint | +> fldscodepoint | smallint | +> fldtooctets | bigint | +> flfrompdus | bigint | +> flid | text | +> flidrule | bigint | +> flsourcepeeraddress | character varying(30) | +> flsourcetransaddress | bigint | +> flsourcetranstype | smallint | +> fltime | timestamp with time zone | +> fltopdus | bigint | +> lasttime | bigint | +> sourceinterface | smallint | +> destinterface | smallint | +> sourceasn | smallint | +> destasn | smallint | +> Primary key: flows_pkey + +Which columns are in the pkey? + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 13:56:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659A6D1B58A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:56:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37951-09 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:54:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from correo (correo.qoslabs.com [157.238.87.78]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413F1D1C936 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:56:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ldap-02.qoslabs.com (ldap-02 [172.20.1.31]) + by correo-01.qoslabs.com + (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) + with SMTP id <0HJK00EK6HP4RF@correo-01.qoslabs.com> for + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:55:52 -0400 (EDT) +Received: (from ingridmartinez [148.233.235.189]) + by ldap-02.qoslabs.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.12) with SMTP id + M2003081312555023228 ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:55:51 -0400 +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:55:00 -0500 +From: ingrid martinez +Subject: Re: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +To: "scott.marlowe" +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Message-id: <00c601c361bb$a34c4890$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +MIME-version: 1.0 +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-priority: Normal +References: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/244 +X-Sequence-Number: 3061 + +the primary key is flidload + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: "ingrid martinez" +Cc: "Andrew Sullivan" ; + +Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 11:47 AM +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] How can I Improve performance in Solaris? + + +> On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, ingrid martinez wrote: +> +> > Floes table looks like this +> > +> > Table "flows" +> > Column | Type | Modifiers +> > ----------------------+--------------------------+----------- +> > flidload | bigint | not null +> > firsttime | bigint | +> > fldestpeeraddress | character varying(30) | +> > fldesttransaddress | bigint | +> > fldesttranstype | smallint | +> > fldfromoctets | bigint | +> > fldscodepoint | smallint | +> > fldtooctets | bigint | +> > flfrompdus | bigint | +> > flid | text | +> > flidrule | bigint | +> > flsourcepeeraddress | character varying(30) | +> > flsourcetransaddress | bigint | +> > flsourcetranstype | smallint | +> > fltime | timestamp with time zone | +> > fltopdus | bigint | +> > lasttime | bigint | +> > sourceinterface | smallint | +> > destinterface | smallint | +> > sourceasn | smallint | +> > destasn | smallint | +> > Primary key: flows_pkey +> +> Which columns are in the pkey? +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 14:52:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF0DD1C4E3 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:52:08 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 42032-08 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:50:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65780D1B561 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:51:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7DHpc106109; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:51:38 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308131751.h7DHpc106109@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <200308130846.55991.josh@agliodbs.com> +To: Josh Berkus +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:51:38 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Jeff , Christopher Browne , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/245 +X-Sequence-Number: 3062 + +Josh Berkus wrote: +> Jeff, +> +> > Informix, etc. have spent a lot of time and money working on it. +> > They also have the advantage of having many paid fulltime +> > developers who are doing this for a job, not as a weekend hobby +> > (Compared to the what? 2-3 full time PG developers). +> +> I think 4-6 full-time, actually, plus about 200 part-time contributors. Which +> adds up to a bloody *lot* of code if you monitor pgsql-patches between +> versions. The only development advantage the commercials have over us is the +> ability to engage in large projects (e.g. replication, raw filesystems, etc.) +> that are difficult for a distributed network of people. + +I think Informix's track record for post-Informix 5.0 releases is poor: + + 6.0 aborted release, pretty much withdrawn + 7.0 took 1-2 years to stabalize + 8.0 where was that? + 9.0 confused customers + +How much does Informix improve in 6 months? In 2 years? How long does +it take to get a bug fixed? + +At this point, only the largest corporations can keep up with our +open-source development model. The other database vendors have already +closed, as did Informix when purchased by IBM. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 16:19:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5898ED1B58A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:19:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 57649-05 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:17:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D22D1B53A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:19:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7DJJ8em095360 + for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:19:08 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7DIse22088750 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:54:40 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:54:38 -0400 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 102 +Message-ID: <603cg5v15d.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +References: + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:maMpJwW4xnKG++SiYmibU6V5Edk= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/248 +X-Sequence-Number: 3065 + +threshar@torgo.978.org (Jeff) writes: +> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: +>> Are you _certain_ that's still true? Have you a metric that shows +>> Informix being 10x faster on a modern system? That would be quite +>> surprising... + +> We were forced (for budget reason) to switch from raw disk to cooked +> files on our informix db. We took a huge hit - about 5-6x slower. +> Granted part of that was because informix takes number of spindles, +> etc into account when generating query plans and the fact running +> UPDATE STATISTICS (think Vacuum analyze) on the version we run locks +> the table exclusively. And it is unacceptable to have our "main +> table" unavailable for hours and hours while the update runs. (For +> the record: its a 8cpu sun e4500 running sol2.6. The raw disks were +> on a hitachi fibre array and the cooked files were on a raid5 +> (scsi). Forget how many spindles in the raid. There were 20 raw +> disks) + +Sounds like what you were forced to do was to do TWO things: + + 1. Switch from raw disk to cooked files, and + 2. Switch from a fibre array to a RAID array + +You're attributing the 5-6x slowdown to 1., when it seems likely that +2. is a far more significant multiple. + +What with there being TWO big changes that took place that might be +expected to affect performance, it seems odd to attribute a +factor-of-many change to just one aspect of that. + +> Informix, etc. have spent a lot of time and money working on it. +> They also have the advantage of having many paid fulltime developers +> who are doing this for a job, not as a weekend hobby (Compared to +> the what? 2-3 full time PG developers). + + +Sure, and I'm sure the PG developers hardly know _anything_ about +implementing databases, either. + + +Certainly IBM (who bought Informix) has lots of time and money to +devote to enhancements. But I think you underestimate the time, +skill, and effort involved with PG work. It's quite typical for +people to imagine free software projects to basically be free-wheeling +efforts mostly involving guys that still have acne that haven't much +knowledge of the area. Reality, for the projects that are of some +importance, is staggeringly different from that. The number of people +with graduate degrees tends to surprise everyone. + +The developers may not have time to add frivolous things to the +system, like building sophisticated Java-based GUI installers, XML +processors, or such. That does, however, improve their focus, and so +PostgreSQL does not suffer from the way Oracle has fifty different +bundlings most of which nobody understands. + +> The other advantage (which I hinted to above) with raw disks is +> being able to optimize queries to take advantage of it. Informix is +> multithreaded and it will spawn off multiple "readers" to do say, a +> seq scan (and merge the results at the end). +> +> So if you have a table across say, 3 disks and you need to do a seq +> scan it will spawn three readers to do the read. Result: nice and +> fast (Yes, It may not always spawn the three readers, only when it +> thinks it will be a good thing to do) + +Andrew Sullivan's fairly regular response is that he tried (albeit not +VASTLY extensively) to distinguish between disks when working with +fibre arrays, and he couldn't measure an improvement in shifting WAL +(the OBVIOUS thing to shift) to separate disks. + +There's a lot of guesswork as to precisely why that result falls out. + +One of the better guesses seems to be that if you've got enough +battery-backed memory cache on the array, that lets updates get pushed +to cache so fast that it doesn't too much matter which disk they hit. + +If you've got enough spindles, and build much of the array in a +striped manner, you'll get data splitting across disks without having +to specify any "table options" to force it to happen. + +You raise a good point vis-a-vis the thought of spawning multiple +readers; that could conceivably be a useful approach to improve +performance for very large queries. If you could "stripe" the tables +in some manner so they could be doled out to multiple worker +processes, that could indeed provide some benefits. If there are +three workers, they might round-robin to grab successive pages from +the table to do their work, and then end with a merge step. + +That's probably a 7.7 change, mind you :-), but once other simpler +approaches to making the engine faster have been exhausted, that's the +sort of thing to look into next. + +> I think for PG the effort would be much better spent on other +> features... like replication and whatnot. + +At this point, sure. +-- +let name="cbbrowne" and tld="ntlug.org" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];; +http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/lisp.html +"Using Java as a general purpose application development language is +like going big game hunting armed with Nerf weapons." +-- Author Unknown + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 16:00:29 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BFED1B524 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:00:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58372-02 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:58:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E581D1C4BF + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:00:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7DIxZbS011409; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 12:59:36 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:00:23 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: ingrid martinez +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , + +Subject: Re: How can I Improve performance in Solaris? +In-Reply-To: <00c601c361bb$a34c4890$8e64a8c0@ingridmartinez> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/246 +X-Sequence-Number: 3063 + +More than likely you are suffering from an affliction known as type +mismatch. This is listed as tip 9 here on the performance list (funny, it +was sent at the bottom of your reply :-) + +What happens is that when you do: + +select * from some_table where id=123; + +where id is a bigint the query planner assumes you must want 123 +cast to int4, which doesn't match int8 (aka bigint) and uses a sequential +scan to access that row. I.e. it reads the whole table in. + +You can force the planner to do the right thing here in a couple of ways: + +select * from some_table where id=123::bigint; + +-- OR -- + +select * from some_table where id='123'; + +On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, ingrid martinez wrote: + +> the primary key is flidload +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your +> joining column's datatypes do not match +> + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 16:19:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87D5D1B56C + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:19:20 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 55610-08 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:17:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A87ED1B561 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:19:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7DJJ8eo095360 + for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:19:08 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7DJ78aG092668 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:07:08 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:07:04 -0400 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 54 +Message-ID: <60r83ptm07.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +References: + <200308130846.55991.josh@agliodbs.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:NDvTyYzsgECA+AHrbOkslw9/Yus= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/247 +X-Sequence-Number: 3064 + +josh@agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) writes: +>> The other advantage (which I hinted to above) with raw disks is being able +>> to optimize queries to take advantage of it. Informix is multithreaded +>> and it will spawn off multiple "readers" to do say, a seq scan (and merge +>> the results at the end). +> +> I like this idea. Has it ever been discussed for PostgreSQL? Hmmm +> .... we'd need to see some tests demonstrating that this approach +> was still a technical advantage given the improvements in RAID and +> FS technology since Informix was designed. + +Ah, but this approach isn't so much an I/O optimization as it is a CPU +optimization. + +If you have some sort of join against a big table, and do a lot of +processing on each component, there might be CPU benefits from the +split: + +create table customers( + id customer_id, name character varying, other fields +); --- And we're a phone company with 8 millions of them... + + +create table customer_status ( + customer_id customer_id, + status status_code +); + +create table customer_address ( + customer_id customer_id, + address_info... +); + +And then are doing: + + select c.id, sum(status), address_label(c.id), balance(c.id) from + customers c, customer_status cs; + +We know there's going to be a SEQ SCAN against customers, because +that's the big table. + +If I wanted to finish the query as fast as possible, as things stand +now, and had 4 CPUs, I would run 4 concurrent queries, for 4 ranges of +customers. + +The Really Cool approach would be for PostgreSQL to dole out customers +across four processors, perhaps throwing a page at a time at each CPU, +where each process would quasi-independently build up their respective +result sets. +-- +let name="cbbrowne" and tld="libertyrms.info" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];; + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 18:35:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A43D1B53A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:31:26 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 73387-05 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:29:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71983D1B52C + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:31:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao04.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP + id <20030813213115.ONVT13930.lakemtao04.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:31:15 -0400 +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <200308130846.55991.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: + <200308130846.55991.josh@agliodbs.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1060810275.4577.1.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 13 Aug 2003 16:31:16 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/249 +X-Sequence-Number: 3066 + +On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 10:46, Josh Berkus wrote: +> Jeff, +> +[snip] +> > The other advantage (which I hinted to above) with raw disks is being able +> > to optimize queries to take advantage of it. Informix is multithreaded +> > and it will spawn off multiple "readers" to do say, a seq scan (and merge +> > the results at the end). +> +> I like this idea. Has it ever been discussed for PostgreSQL? Hmmm .... we'd +> need to see some tests demonstrating that this approach was still a technical +> advantage given the improvements in RAID and FS technology since Informix +> was designed. + +Wouldn't PG 1st need horizontal partitioning, and as a precursor to +that, "tablespaces"? + +-- ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ +| Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: ron.l.johnson@cox.net | +| Jefferson, LA USA | +| | +| "Man, I'm pretty. Hoo Hah!" | +| Johnny Bravo | ++---------------------------------------------------------------+ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 13 20:23:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 535E2D1B52C + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:23:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 87329-04 + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:22:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.int.nxad.com (internal.ext.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C1E8D1B53A + for ; + Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:23:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.int.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 9A32E20F01; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:23:30 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:23:30 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Message-ID: <20030813232330.GB12595@perrin.int.nxad.com> +References: + + <603cg5v15d.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <603cg5v15d.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/250 +X-Sequence-Number: 3067 + +> Andrew Sullivan's fairly regular response is that he tried (albeit +> not VASTLY extensively) to distinguish between disks when working +> with fibre arrays, and he couldn't measure an improvement in +> shifting WAL (the OBVIOUS thing to shift) to separate disks. + +Real quick... the faster the drives, the less important it is to move +WAL onto a different drive. The slower the drives, the more important +this is... which is why this isn't as necessary (if at all) for large +production environments. + +-sc + +-- +Sean Chittenden + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 07:24:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C7FD1C4D5 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:21:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66309-08 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:20:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D58DD1C4D0 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:21:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from frmug.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by frmug.org (8.12.9/8.11.3/frmug-2.7/nospam) with ESMTP id + h7EALmXd060158 + (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified + NO) for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:21:49 +0200 (CEST) + (envelope-from pgsql@phoe.frmug.org) +Received: (from uucp@localhost) + by frmug.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) with UUCP id h7EALm94060157 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:21:48 +0200 (CEST) +Received: (from elrond@localhost) + by memo.frmug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7EALVb03681 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:21:31 +0200 (CEST) + (envelope-from pgsql@memo.frmug.org) +X-Authentication-Warning: memo.frmug.org: elrond set sender to + pgsql@memo.frmug.org using -f +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:21:30 +0200 +From: Bertrand Petit +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +Message-ID: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/251 +X-Sequence-Number: 3068 + + + Hello, + + I recently switched to 7.4 beta 1, one query that used to be +corectly executed uder 7.3.3 albeit slowly now abnormaly ends when the +backend can't get more memory when it ate about 480 MB of swap space. +I suspect that this behavior is the result of a 7.4 beta 1 bug but I +wanted to be sure it is one before posting a report on pgsql-bugs. + + That query operates on three tables: + +============================================================================== +db=> \d movies + Table "public.movies" + Column | Type | Modifiers +------------+-------------------+------------------------------------------------- + id | bigint | not null default nextval('movies_id_seq'::text) + title | character varying | not null + orig_title | character varying | not null + year | smallint | + year_end | smallint | +Indexes: + "movies_id_idx" unique, btree (id) + "movies_title_idx" unique, btree (title) + "movies_orig_title_idx" btree (orig_title) + "movies_year_idx" btree ("year") +Check constraints: + "movies_year" CHECK (("year" >= 1888) OR ("year" IS NULL)) + "$1" CHECK ((year_end >= 1888) OR (year_end IS NULL)) + +db=> \d raw_atitles + Table "public.raw_atitles" + Column | Type | Modifiers +------------+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------- + main_title | character varying | not null + aka_title | character varying | + charset | character varying | not null default 'ISO-8859-1'::character varying + byte_title | character varying | not null + attribs | character varying[] | +Indexes: + "rimdb_atitles_aka_title_idx" btree (aka_title) + "rimdb_atitles_attribs_idx" btree (attribs array_ops) + "rimdb_atitles_main_title_idx" btree (main_title) + +db=> \d atitles + Table "public.atitles" + Column | Type | Modifiers +------------+---------------------+----------- + title | character varying | not null + movie_id | bigint | not null + attribs | character varying[] | + orig_title | character varying | not null +Indexes: + "truc" unique, btree (movie_id, orig_title, attribs array_ops) + "atitles_movie_id_idx" btree (movie_id) + "atitles_title_idx" btree (title) +Foreign-key constraints: + "$1" FOREIGN KEY (movie_id) REFERENCES movies(id) + +============================================================================== + + The operation is to update the "core" atitles table with the +contents of the "raw" raw_atitles table. The query is as follows: + +============================================================================== +INSERT INTO atitles (movie_id, title, attribs, orig_title) + SELECT mo.id, trans_title(rak.aka_title), rak.attribs, rak.aka_title + FROM movies AS mo, raw_atitles AS rak + WHERE mo.orig_title=rak.main_title AND + NOT EXISTS + (SELECT at2.movie_id from atitles AS at2 + WHERE at2.movie_id=mo.id AND + at2.orig_title=rak.aka_title AND + at2.attribs=rak.attribs); +============================================================================== + + Table sizes are 362,921 rows for movies, 152,549 for atitles, +and 160,114 for raw_atitles. + + The query plan is: + +============================================================================== + QUERY PLAN +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Merge Join (cost=106998.67..1039376.63 rows=80057 width=86) + Merge Cond: ("outer"."?column3?" = "inner"."?column4?") + Join Filter: (NOT (subplan)) + -> Sort (cost=66212.69..67119.99 rows=362921 width=38) + Sort Key: (mo.orig_title)::text + -> Seq Scan on movies mo (cost=0.00..8338.21 rows=362921 width=38) + -> Sort (cost=40785.99..41186.27 rows=160114 width=107) + Sort Key: (rak.main_title)::text + -> Seq Scan on raw_atitles rak (cost=0.00..5145.14 rows=160114 width=107) + SubPlan + -> Index Scan using truc on atitles at2 (cost=0.00..5.80 rows=1 width=8) + Index Cond: ((movie_id = $0) AND ((orig_title)::text = ($1)::text) AND (attribs = $2)) +(12 rows) + +============================================================================== + + I suspect that the backend does not comply to the sort_mem +parameter (set to the default 1024). + + So my question is: does this really looks like a bug? + + Regards. + +-- +%!PS +297.6 420.9 translate 90 rotate 0 setgray gsave 0 1 1{pop 0 180 moveto 100 +180 170 100 170 -10 curveto 180 -9 180 -9 190 -10 curveto 190 100 100 180 +0 180 curveto fill 180 rotate}for grestore/Bookman-LightItalic findfont +240 scalefont setfont -151.536392 -63.7998886 moveto (bp)show showpage + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 08:44:43 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258C5D1C4D0 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:41:25 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 81378-06 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:39:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.cict.nl (vnd-7521.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl [62.234.149.33]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58234D1C990 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:41:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from APR ([192.168.150.182]) + by mail.cict.nl (Merak 6.0.5) with SMTP id DUC73886 + for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:41:12 +0200 +Message-ID: <00e801c36259$30b908b0$b696a8c0@APR> +From: "Alexander Priem" +To: +References: <002a01c34f62$75c01de0$b696a8c0@APR> +Subject: 'View'-performance +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:42:50 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C36269.F424B3C0" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, + REFERENCES +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Archive-Number: 200308/252 +X-Sequence-Number: 3069 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C36269.F424B3C0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Hi all, + +I am wondering about something: I have a table (let's call it "Table") whic= +h will contain a lot of records. Every record has a field named "deleted" w= +hich can be either NULL or a date value. When this field is NULL, the recor= +d in question may be used by a program. If the field contains a date, this = +field must be considered as "deleted" and cannot be used anymore. + +The reason why I don't actually delete such records is that I want to be ab= +le to reference them from other locations (for history purposes). + +What I am thinking about is creating two views for this table: Table_View a= +nd Table_History. Table_View would contain all records where "Deleted is nu= +ll". Table_History would just contain all records (Select * From Table). + +In my program most queries would need to view only the records where delete= +d is null. + +Would " Select * from Table_View Where Name=3D'xxx' " perform worse than " = +Select * from Table Where deleted is null and Name=3D'xxx' " ? + +I ask this because I would like it if I wouldn't have to type "where delete= +d is null" for about every query in my program. But I will not use this str= +ategy if this would mean serious performance loss... + +Thanks in Advance, +Alexander Priem. +------=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C36269.F424B3C0 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + + + + + +
Hi all,
+
 
+
I am wondering about something: I have a t= +able=20 +(let's call it "Table") which will contain a lot of records. Every rec= +ord=20 +has a field named "deleted" which can be either NULL or a date value. When = +this=20 +field is NULL, the record in question may be used by a program. If the fiel= +d=20 +contains a date, this field must be considered as "deleted" and cannot be u= +sed=20 +anymore.
+
 
+
The reason why I don't actually delete suc= +h records=20 +is that I want to be able to reference them from other locations (for histo= +ry=20 +purposes).
+
 
+
What I am thinking about is creating two v= +iews for=20 +this table: Table_View and Table_History. Table_View would contain all reco= +rds=20 +where "Deleted is null". Table_History would just contain all records (Sele= +ct *=20 +=46rom Table).
+
 
+
In my program most queries would need to v= +iew only=20 +the records where deleted is null.
+
 
+
Would " Select * from Table_View Where Nam= +e=3D'xxx' "=20 +perform worse than " Select * from Table Where deleted is null=20 +and Name=3D'xxx' " ?
+
 
+
I ask this because I would like it if I wo= +uldn't=20 +have to type "where deleted is null" for about every query in my program.= +=20 +But I will not use this strategy if this would mean serious=20 +performance loss...
+
 
+
Thanks in Advance,
+
Alexander Priem.
+ +------=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C36269.F424B3C0-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 08:48:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8860D1C7F1 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:48:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 81813-06 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:46:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D41D1C94C + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:48:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7EBjkSa015590; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:45:46 -0400 (EDT) +To: Bertrand Petit +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +In-reply-to: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> +References: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> +Comments: In-reply-to Bertrand Petit + message dated "Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:21:30 +0200" +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:45:46 -0400 +Message-ID: <15589.1060861546@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/253 +X-Sequence-Number: 3070 + +Bertrand Petit writes: +> I recently switched to 7.4 beta 1, one query that used to be +> corectly executed uder 7.3.3 albeit slowly now abnormaly ends when the +> backend can't get more memory when it ate about 480 MB of swap space. + +Please show us the memory context size info that the backend dumps to +stderr when it reports "out of memory". + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 09:03:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF8AD1C487 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:01:08 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 85374-10 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:59:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76268D1C9C6 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:00:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7EC0nSa015714; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:00:49 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Alexander Priem" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: 'View'-performance +In-reply-to: <00e801c36259$30b908b0$b696a8c0@APR> +References: <002a01c34f62$75c01de0$b696a8c0@APR> + <00e801c36259$30b908b0$b696a8c0@APR> +Comments: In-reply-to "Alexander Priem" + message dated "Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:42:50 +0200" +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:00:49 -0400 +Message-ID: <15713.1060862449@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/254 +X-Sequence-Number: 3071 + +"Alexander Priem" writes: +> What I am thinking about is creating two views for this table: Table_View a= +> nd Table_History. Table_View would contain all records where "Deleted is nu= +> ll". Table_History would just contain all records (Select * From Table). + +> Would " Select * from Table_View Where Name=3D'xxx' " perform worse than " = +> Select * from Table Where deleted is null and Name=3D'xxx' " ? + +They'd be exactly the same (modulo a few extra microseconds/milliseconds +for the query planner to expand the view definition). + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 09:30:44 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39BCD1C9D5 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:30:25 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 94483-10 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:28:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8109AD1C93C + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:30:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 21680 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2003 12:30:02 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 14 Aug 2003 12:30:02 -0000 +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:30:02 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <603cg5v15d.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/255 +X-Sequence-Number: 3072 + +On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: + +> Sounds like what you were forced to do was to do TWO things: +> +> 1. Switch from raw disk to cooked files, and +> 2. Switch from a fibre array to a RAID array +> +> You're attributing the 5-6x slowdown to 1., when it seems likely that +> 2. is a far more significant multiple. +> + +True. + +> +> Sure, and I'm sure the PG developers hardly know _anything_ about +> implementing databases, either. +> + +Oh I know they are good at it. I deal a lot with informix and PG and if I +could I'd bring Tom, Bruce, Joe, etc. out for a beer as I'm *constantly* +fighting informix and our PG box just sits there merrily churning away. +(and god bless "explain analyze" - informix's version is basically boolean +- "I will use an index" "I will use a seq scan". Doesn't even tell you +what index!. ) + +> You raise a good point vis-a-vis the thought of spawning multiple +> readers; that could conceivably be a useful approach to improve +> performance for very large queries. If you could "stripe" the tables +> in some manner so they could be doled out to multiple worker +> processes, that could indeed provide some benefits. If there are +> three workers, they might round-robin to grab successive pages from +> the table to do their work, and then end with a merge step. + +The way informix does this is two fold: +1. it handles the raw disks, it knows where table data is +2. it can "partition" tables in a number of ways: round robin, +concatination or expression (Expression is nifty, allows you to use a +basic "where" clause to decide where to put data. ie +create table foo ( +a int, +b int, +c int ) fragment on c > 0 and c < 100 in dbspace1, c > 100 c < 200 in +dbspace 2; + +that kind of thing. +and yeah, I would not expect to see it for a long time.. Without threading +it would be rather difficult to implement.. but who knows what the future +will bring us. + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 09:45:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A3D1D1C7F3 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:33:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 96096-07 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:32:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CD3B6D1C9CB + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:33:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 21709 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2003 12:33:12 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 14 Aug 2003 12:33:12 -0000 +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:33:12 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Josh Berkus , Christopher Browne , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <200308131751.h7DHpc106109@candle.pha.pa.us> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/256 +X-Sequence-Number: 3073 + +On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: + +> I think Informix's track record for post-Informix 5.0 releases is poor: +> +> 6.0 aborted release, pretty much withdrawn +> 7.0 took 1-2 years to stabalize +> 8.0 where was that? + +8.0 never occured. It went 7.3 -> 9.0 + +> 9.0 confused customers + +9.0 had some good stuff. 9.4 *FINALLY* removed a lot of limitations (2GB +chunks, etc). (9.4 came out a few years after 7) + +> How much does Informix improve in 6 months? In 2 years? How long does +> it take to get a bug fixed? + +You make me laugh :) + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 09:45:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9432D1F468 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:35:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 97577-02 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:34:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 48388D1F42E + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:35:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 21737 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2003 12:35:17 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 14 Aug 2003 12:35:17 -0000 +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:35:17 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Josh Berkus +Cc: Christopher Browne , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <200308130846.55991.josh@agliodbs.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/257 +X-Sequence-Number: 3074 + +On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: + +> As I have said elsewhere, Informix is probably a poor database to emulate +> since they are effectively an old dead-end fork of the Ingres/Postgres code, +> and have already been "mined" for most of the improvements they made. +> +With informix 7.0 they rewrote the entire thing from the ground up to +remove a bunch of limitations and build a multithreaded engine. +so it isn't so much an old fork anymore. + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 12:40:02 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C254D1B550 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:19:36 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 46250-08 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:17:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A65FD1B539 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:19:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7EFJKem085211 + for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:19:21 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7EEnpJU076398 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:49:51 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:49:53 -0400 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 28 +Message-ID: <60adaci99q.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +References: <200308130846.55991.josh@agliodbs.com> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:IBxl+CLttussBitSqbm3ryDDMhs= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/260 +X-Sequence-Number: 3076 + +threshar@torgo.978.org (Jeff) writes: +> On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: +>> As I have said elsewhere, Informix is probably a poor database to emulate +>> since they are effectively an old dead-end fork of the Ingres/Postgres code, +>> and have already been "mined" for most of the improvements they made. +>> +> With informix 7.0 they rewrote the entire thing from the ground up +> to remove a bunch of limitations and build a multithreaded engine. +> so it isn't so much an old fork anymore. + +No, I think you misunderstand the intent... + +The pre-7.0 version was based on Informix's B-Tree libraries, and the +file structuring actually bears a marked resemblance to that of MySQL +(that's an observation; neither forcibly a good or a bad thing), where +there's a data file for the table, and then a bunch of index files, +named somewhat after the table. + +In the 7.0-and-after era, they added in the "old dead-end fork of the +Ingres/Postgres code" to get the "Universal Data Server." + +[This is diverging somewhat from "performance;" let's try to resist +extending discussion...] +-- +(reverse (concatenate 'string "ofni.smrytrebil" "@" "enworbbc")) + +Christopher Browne +(416) 646 3304 x124 (land) + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 12:51:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CB24D1F424 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:55:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 44749-06 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:53:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A683D1F595 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:55:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from frmug.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by frmug.org (8.12.9/8.11.3/frmug-2.7/nospam) with ESMTP id + h7EEssXd076108 + (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256 bits) verified + NO); Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:54:54 +0200 (CEST) + (envelope-from pgsql@phoe.frmug.org) +Received: (from uucp@localhost) + by frmug.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) with UUCP id h7EEssPb076105; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:54:54 +0200 (CEST) +Received: (from elrond@localhost) + by memo.frmug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7EErGr04454; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:53:16 +0200 (CEST) + (envelope-from pgsql@memo.frmug.org) +X-Authentication-Warning: memo.frmug.org: elrond set sender to + pgsql@memo.frmug.org using -f +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:53:11 +0200 +From: Bertrand Petit +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Bertrand Petit , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +Message-ID: <20030814165311.A4431@memo.frmug.org> +References: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> + <15589.1060861546@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i +In-Reply-To: <15589.1060861546@sss.pgh.pa.us>; + from tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us on Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 07:45:46AM -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/262 +X-Sequence-Number: 3078 + +On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 07:45:46AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: +> +> Please show us the memory context size info that the backend dumps to +> stderr when it reports "out of memory". + + Here it is: + +============================================================================== +TopMemoryContext: 32792 total in 4 blocks; 14600 free (9 chunks); 18192 used +TopTransactionContext: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 8136 free (0 chunks); 56 used +DeferredTriggerXact: 2088960 total in 8 blocks; 97384 free (6 chunks); 1991576 used +MessageContext: 57344 total in 3 blocks; 7552 free (2 chunks); 49792 used +PortalMemory: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 8040 free (0 chunks); 152 used +PortalHeapMemory: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 936 free (0 chunks); 88 used +ExecutorState: 4556232 total in 46 blocks; 3183264 free (8303 chunks); 1372968 used +ExprContext: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +ExecutorState: 528474112 total in 72 blocks; 760 free (1 chunks); 528473352 used +ExprContext: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +ExprContext: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +ExprContext: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +ExprContext: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +ExprContext: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 8176 free (0 chunks); 16 used +CacheMemoryContext: 516096 total in 6 blocks; 44208 free (2 chunks); 471888 used +raw_atitles_main_title_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +raw_atitles_attribs_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +raw_atitles_aka_title_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +movies_orig_title_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +movies_year_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +movies_title_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +movies_id_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_constraint_conrelid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_attrdef_adrelid_adnum_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +truc: 3144 total in 2 blocks; 1848 free (0 chunks); 1296 used +atitles_title_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +atitles_movie_id_idx: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_index_indrelid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_type_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_type_typname_nsp_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_statistic_relid_att_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_shadow_usesysid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_rewrite_rel_rulename_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_proc_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_proc_proname_args_nsp_index: 3144 total in 2 blocks; 1784 free (0 chunks); 1360 used +pg_operator_oprname_l_r_n_index: 3144 total in 2 blocks; 1784 free (0 chunks); 1360 used +pg_namespace_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_namespace_nspname_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_language_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_language_name_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_inherits_relid_seqno_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_group_sysid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_group_name_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_conversion_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_conversion_name_nsp_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_conversion_default_index: 3144 total in 2 blocks; 1784 free (0 chunks); 1360 used +pg_opclass_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_opclass_am_name_nsp_index: 3144 total in 2 blocks; 1848 free (0 chunks); 1296 used +pg_cast_source_target_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_attribute_relid_attnam_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_amop_opr_opc_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_aggregate_fnoid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_shadow_usename_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_trigger_tgrelid_tgname_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_operator_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_amproc_opc_procnum_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_amop_opc_strategy_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_index_indexrelid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_attribute_relid_attnum_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_class_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_amproc_opc_procnum_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_operator_oid_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 640 free (0 chunks); 384 used +pg_amop_opc_strategy_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +pg_class_relname_nsp_index: 1024 total in 1 blocks; 320 free (0 chunks); 704 used +MdSmgr: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 6120 free (0 chunks); 2072 used +DynaHash: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 7064 free (0 chunks); 1128 used +DynaHashTable: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 5080 free (0 chunks); 3112 used +DynaHashTable: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 2008 free (0 chunks); 6184 used +DynaHashTable: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 3520 free (0 chunks); 4672 used +DynaHashTable: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 3520 free (0 chunks); 4672 used +DynaHashTable: 24576 total in 2 blocks; 13240 free (4 chunks); 11336 used +DynaHashTable: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +DynaHashTable: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +DynaHashTable: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +DynaHashTable: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +DynaHashTable: 0 total in 0 blocks; 0 free (0 chunks); 0 used +ErrorContext: 8192 total in 1 blocks; 8176 free (8 chunks); 16 used +============================================================================== + +-- +%!PS +297.6 420.9 translate 90 rotate 0 setgray gsave 0 1 1{pop 0 180 moveto 100 +180 170 100 170 -10 curveto 180 -9 180 -9 190 -10 curveto 190 100 100 180 +0 180 curveto fill 180 rotate}for grestore/Bookman-LightItalic findfont +240 scalefont setfont -151.536392 -63.7998886 moveto (bp)show showpage + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 12:39:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C981D1B524 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:19:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 46113-10 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:17:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5941CD1B52C + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:19:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7EFJKek085211 + for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:19:20 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7EEvS1w078478 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:57:28 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:57:33 -0400 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 81 +Message-ID: <604r0ki8wy.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +References: <603cg5v15d.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:ORvo16AGBEtkTuDJ6adTPIfaNpw= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/259 +X-Sequence-Number: 3075 + +threshar@torgo.978.org (Jeff) writes: +> On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Christopher Browne wrote: +>> You raise a good point vis-a-vis the thought of spawning multiple +>> readers; that could conceivably be a useful approach to improve +>> performance for very large queries. If you could "stripe" the tables +>> in some manner so they could be doled out to multiple worker +>> processes, that could indeed provide some benefits. If there are +>> three workers, they might round-robin to grab successive pages from +>> the table to do their work, and then end with a merge step. +> +> The way informix does this is two fold: +> 1. it handles the raw disks, it knows where table data is + +The thing is, this isn't something where there is guaranteed to be a +permanent _massive_ difference in performance between "raw" and +"cooked." + +Traditionally, "handling raw disks" was a big deal because the DBMS +could then decide where to stick the data, possibly down to specifying +what sector of what track of what spindle. There are four reasons for +this to not be such a big deal anymore: + + 1. Disk drives lie to you. They don't necessarily provide + information that even _resembles_ their true geometry. So the + best you can get is to be sure that "this block was on drive 4, + that block was on drive 7." + + 2. On a big system, you're more than likely using hardware RAID, + where there's further cacheing, and where the disk array may + not be honest to the DBMS about where the drives actually are. + + 3. The other traditional benefit to "raw" disks was that they + allowed the DBMS to be _certain_ that data was committed in + some particular order. But 1. and 2. provide regrettable + opportunities for the DBMS' belief to be forlorn. (With the + degree to which disk drives lie about things, I have to be a + bit skeptical of some of the BSD FFS claims which at least + appear to assume that they _do_ control the disk drive... + This is NOT reason, by the way, to consider FFS to be, in + any way, "bad," but rather just that some of the guarantees + may get stolen by your disk drive...) + + 4. Today's filesystems _aren't_ Grandpa's UFS. We've got better + stuff than we had back in the Ultrix days. + +> 2. it can "partition" tables in a number of ways: round robin, +> concatination or expression (Expression is nifty, allows you to use a +> basic "where" clause to decide where to put data. ie +> create table foo ( +> a int, +> b int, +> c int ) fragment on c > 0 and c < 100 in dbspace1, c > 100 c < 200 in +> dbspace 2; +> +> that kind of thing. + +I remember thinking this was rather neat when I first saw it. + +The "fragment on" part was most interesting at the time, when everyone +else (including filesystem makers) were decrying fragmentation as the +ultimate evil. In effect, Informix was saying that they would +_improve_ performance through fragmentation... Sort of like the rash +claim that performance can be improved _without_ resorting to a +threading-based model... + +> and yeah, I would not expect to see it for a long time.. Without +> threading it would be rather difficult to implement.. but who knows +> what the future will bring us. + +The typical assumption is that threading is a magical talisman that +will bring all sorts of benefits. There have been enough cases where +PostgreSQL has demonstrated stunning improvements _without_ threading +that I am very skeptical that it is necessarily necessary. +-- +output = reverse("gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc") +http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html +Rules of the Evil Overlord #204. "I will hire an entire squad of blind +guards. Not only is this in keeping with my status as an equal +opportunity employer, but it will come in handy when the hero becomes +invisible or douses my only light source." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 12:44:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45014D1C943 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:04:23 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 46387-05 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:02:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp016.mail.yahoo.com (smtp016.mail.yahoo.com + [216.136.174.113]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DA744D1C4F1 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:04:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pcp01341166pcs.wilog301.pa.comcast.net (HELO + europa.janwieck.net) (janwieck@68.80.245.191 with login) + by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Aug 2003 15:04:10 -0000 +Received: from Yahoo.com (ismtp.afilias.com [216.217.55.254]) (authenticated) + by europa.janwieck.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7EF49H14055; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:04:12 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F3BA49D.9070405@Yahoo.com> +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:02:53 -0400 +From: Jan Wieck +Organization: Unorganized +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Scott Cain , + PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/261 +X-Sequence-Number: 3077 + +Tom Lane wrote: +> Scott Cain writes: +>> At least this appears to work and is much faster, completing substring +>> operations like above in about 0.27 secs (that's about two orders of +>> magnitude improvement!) +> +> I find it really, really hard to believe that a crude reimplementation +> in plpgsql of the TOAST concept could beat the built-in implementation +> at all, let alone beat it by two orders of magnitude. +> +> Either there's something unrealistic about your testing of the +> dna_string function, or your original tests are not causing TOAST to be +> invoked in the expected way, or there's a bug we need to fix. I'd +> really like to see some profiling of the poor-performing +> external-storage case, so we can figure out what's going on. + +Doesn't look that unrealistic to me. A plain text based substring +function will reassemble the whole beast first before cutting out the +wanted part. His manually chunked version will read only those chunks +needed. Considering that he's talking about retrieving a few thousand +chars from a hundreds of MB size string ... + + +Jan + +-- +#======================================================================# +# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # +# Let's break this rule - forgive me. # +#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com # + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 12:39:48 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34650D1B524 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:21:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 46250-10 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:19:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC68D1B4F0 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:21:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7EFIh5H001579; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:18:43 -0400 (EDT) +To: Bertrand Petit +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +In-reply-to: <20030814165311.A4431@memo.frmug.org> +References: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> + <15589.1060861546@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814165311.A4431@memo.frmug.org> +Comments: In-reply-to Bertrand Petit + message dated "Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:53:11 +0200" +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:18:42 -0400 +Message-ID: <1578.1060874322@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/258 +X-Sequence-Number: 3075 + +Bertrand Petit writes: +> On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 07:45:46AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: +>> Please show us the memory context size info that the backend dumps to +>> stderr when it reports "out of memory". + +> Here it is: + +> ExecutorState: 4556232 total in 46 blocks; 3183264 free (8303 chunks); 1372968 used + +That seems a bit large, but I'm not sure if it's really to worry about. + +> ExecutorState: 528474112 total in 72 blocks; 760 free (1 chunks); 528473352 used + +Okay, you definitely must have a memory leak in query execution. + +Could you provide enough info to let someone else reproduce it? We +don't need your data, but a schema dump (pg_dump -s) would be nice +to avoid trying to guess what causes it. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 14:59:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0916D1C7F7 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:56:02 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 09884-07 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:55:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ctg-msnex01.staff.berbee.com (msn-office1.binc.net + [64.73.12.254]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33F2D1B52C + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:55:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost ([172.30.254.220] RDNS failed) by + ctg-msnex01.staff.berbee.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:55:37 -0500 +From: "Jeremy M. Guthrie" +Reply-To: jeremy.guthrie@berbee.com +Organization: Berbee Information Networks +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Vacuum performance question +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:55:32 -0500 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: Text/Plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Content-Description: clearsigned data +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308141255.36225.jeremy.guthrie@berbee.com> +X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2003 17:55:37.0238 (UTC) + FILETIME=[444E0360:01C3628D] +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/263 +X-Sequence-Number: 3079 + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- +Hash: SHA1 + +My database is approximately 8gb in size. My application is 24/7. I'm=20 +constantly cycling through data. I analyze every 15 minutes but I'm notici= +ng=20 +that during a vacuum the database becomes extremely sluggish. + +In some cases the operation of my software goes from 1-3 second runtime to= +=20 +300+ seconds during a vacuum. + +Should I expect this with a vacuum? I've done reading online where people = +say=20 +they see only a 10% decrease in speed. Is this supposed to be the norm? + +I've allocated 196MB of RAM to vacuums. + +The system is a dual P4-2.4ghz w/ 1.5 gig of RAM w/ 36 gig of RAID mirrored= +=20 +disk. + +I'm runing 7.3.2 and I am upgrading to 7.3.3 next week. + +Please advise. + +- --=20 +Jeremy M. Guthrie +Systems Engineer +Berbee +5520 Research Park Dr. +Madison, WI 53711 +Phone: 608-298-1061 + +Berbee...Decade 1. 1993-2003 +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) + +iD8DBQE/O80UqtjaBHGZBeURAqmLAJ9kxh0DyaZm3pAP77XGlDTq5JcsowCfeqpC +36SjIo5XW44bEkmHnbwXXBQ=3D +=3DoozQ +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 15:13:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0195AD1F05A + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:00:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 10958-10 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:00:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA1BFD1F413 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:00:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7EI0L5H006312; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:00:21 -0400 (EDT) +To: Jan Wieck +Cc: Scott Cain , + PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +In-reply-to: <3F3BA49D.9070405@Yahoo.com> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> <3F3BA49D.9070405@Yahoo.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Jan Wieck + message dated "Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:02:53 -0400" +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:00:21 -0400 +Message-ID: <6311.1060884021@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/265 +X-Sequence-Number: 3081 + +Jan Wieck writes: +> Doesn't look that unrealistic to me. A plain text based substring +> function will reassemble the whole beast first before cutting out the +> wanted part. His manually chunked version will read only those chunks +> needed. + +So does substr(), if applied to EXTERNAL (non-compressed) toasted text. +See John Gray's improvements a release or two back. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 15:11:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A7B5D1F62C + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:08:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 19404-07 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:08:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F6FD1C939 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:05:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id B9DA91024D; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:57:25 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.6] (unknown [10.0.2.6]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id C914A10248; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:57:23 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Vacuum performance question +From: Rod Taylor +To: jeremy.guthrie@berbee.com +Cc: Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: <200308141255.36225.jeremy.guthrie@berbee.com> +References: <200308141255.36225.jeremy.guthrie@berbee.com> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-6TsFzeY0KSMrE9GItv1I" +Message-Id: <1060884297.14006.27.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:04:58 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/264 +X-Sequence-Number: 3080 + +--=-6TsFzeY0KSMrE9GItv1I +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +> I've allocated 196MB of RAM to vacuums. + +I would be willing to bet that you have kicked the system into swap +because of this. Hence the large decrease in speed. + +Try sliding back to 32MB for vacuum. A ton more ram doesn't really help +it all that much. + +--=-6TsFzeY0KSMrE9GItv1I +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/O89J6DETLow6vwwRAmSjAJ9mfifGLjmBFgwtjIjF8iM4DIrDJgCbB3sk +r8l5SYaUC/kEAWJgtCCkOcg= +=rzzF +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-6TsFzeY0KSMrE9GItv1I-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 15:19:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 778E4D1F473 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:18:48 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 23441-05 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:18:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail-2.zoominternet.net (mail-2.zoominternet.net + [63.67.120.22]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B4B0D1F6AC + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:11:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 15194 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2003 18:11:10 -0000 +Received: from acs-24-154-209-142.zoominternet.net (HELO gmod.lajolla) + ([24.154.209.142]) (envelope-sender ) + by mail-2.zoominternet.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP + for ; 14 Aug 2003 18:11:10 -0000 +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +From: Scott Cain +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Jan Wieck , + PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <6311.1060884021@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> <3F3BA49D.9070405@Yahoo.com> + <6311.1060884021@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Lab +Message-Id: <1060884667.1430.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.3 +Date: 14 Aug 2003 14:11:07 -0400 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/266 +X-Sequence-Number: 3082 + +Agreed. When I actually Did It Right (tm), EXTERNAL storage gave +similar (probably better) performance as my shredding method, without +all the hoops to breakup and reassemble the string. + +Scott + +On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 14:00, Tom Lane wrote: +> Jan Wieck writes: +> > Doesn't look that unrealistic to me. A plain text based substring +> > function will reassemble the whole beast first before cutting out the +> > wanted part. His manually chunked version will read only those chunks +> > needed. +> +> So does substr(), if applied to EXTERNAL (non-compressed) toasted text. +> See John Gray's improvements a release or two back. +> +> regards, tom lane +-- +------------------------------------------------------------------------ +Scott Cain, Ph. D. cain@cshl.org +GMOD Coordinator (http://www.gmod.org/) 216-392-3087 +Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 16:12:12 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B96D1C4D5 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:57:02 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 34304-07 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:56:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp101.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp101.mail.sc5.yahoo.com + [216.136.174.139]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C74F6D1C9BE + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:56:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pcp01341166pcs.wilog301.pa.comcast.net (HELO + europa.janwieck.net) (janwieck@68.80.245.191 with login) + by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Aug 2003 18:56:51 -0000 +Received: from Yahoo.com (ismtp.afilias.com [216.217.55.254]) (authenticated) + by europa.janwieck.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7EIusH14569; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:56:54 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F3BDB2A.40506@Yahoo.com> +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:55:38 -0400 +From: Jan Wieck +Organization: Unorganized +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Scott Cain , + PgSQL Performance ML , + pgsql-sql@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [SQL] EXTERNAL storage and substring on long strings +References: <1059679600.1429.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3F297CBA.1080703@joeconway.com> <1059686498.7505.558.camel@haggis> + <1060010735.1433.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> + <3574.1060012423@sss.pgh.pa.us> <3F3BA49D.9070405@Yahoo.com> + <6311.1060884021@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <6311.1060884021@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/267 +X-Sequence-Number: 3083 + +Tom Lane wrote: + +> Jan Wieck writes: +>> Doesn't look that unrealistic to me. A plain text based substring +>> function will reassemble the whole beast first before cutting out the +>> wanted part. His manually chunked version will read only those chunks +>> needed. +> +> So does substr(), if applied to EXTERNAL (non-compressed) toasted text. +> See John Gray's improvements a release or two back. + +Duh ... of course, EXTERNAL is uncompressed ... where do I have my head? + + +Jan + +-- +#======================================================================# +# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # +# Let's break this rule - forgive me. # +#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com # + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 16:38:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A850D1B561 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:30:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 48213-06 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:29:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BE8D1C984 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:29:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7EJS45H006955; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:28:04 -0400 (EDT) +To: jeremy.guthrie@berbee.com +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Vacuum performance question +In-reply-to: <200308141255.36225.jeremy.guthrie@berbee.com> +References: <200308141255.36225.jeremy.guthrie@berbee.com> +Comments: In-reply-to "Jeremy M. Guthrie" + message dated "Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:55:32 -0500" +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:28:04 -0400 +Message-ID: <6954.1060889284@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/268 +X-Sequence-Number: 3084 + +"Jeremy M. Guthrie" writes: +> In some cases the operation of my software goes from 1-3 second runtime to +> 300+ seconds during a vacuum. + +That seems like a lot. I concur with the nearby recommendation to +reduce vacuum_mem, but I think there may be another problem. You should +watch top, iostat, vmstat during a vacuum to try to see what resource is +getting saturated. + +> I'm runing 7.3.2 and I am upgrading to 7.3.3 next week. + +7.3.4, please. 7.3.3 has at least one nasty bug. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 19:03:26 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B10D1C510 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:48:08 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01591-01 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:48:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD864D1F443 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:47:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7ELl1Q11939; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:47:01 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308142147.h7ELl1Q11939@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: +To: Jeff +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:47:01 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Christopher Browne , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/270 +X-Sequence-Number: 3086 + +Jeff wrote: +> > You raise a good point vis-a-vis the thought of spawning multiple +> > readers; that could conceivably be a useful approach to improve +> > performance for very large queries. If you could "stripe" the tables +> > in some manner so they could be doled out to multiple worker +> > processes, that could indeed provide some benefits. If there are +> > three workers, they might round-robin to grab successive pages from +> > the table to do their work, and then end with a merge step. +> +> The way informix does this is two fold: +> 1. it handles the raw disks, it knows where table data is +> 2. it can "partition" tables in a number of ways: round robin, +> concatination or expression (Expression is nifty, allows you to use a +> basic "where" clause to decide where to put data. ie +> create table foo ( +> a int, +> b int, +> c int ) fragment on c > 0 and c < 100 in dbspace1, c > 100 c < 200 in +> dbspace 2; +> +> that kind of thing. +> and yeah, I would not expect to see it for a long time.. Without threading +> it would be rather difficult to implement.. but who knows what the future +> will bring us. + +The big question is whether the added complexity is worth it. I know +Informix 5 was faster than Informix 7 on single CPU machines for quite a +while. It might still be true. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 19:03:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8639D1C9DC + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:52:25 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01846-02 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:52:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859D2D1B561 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:52:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7ELppX12599; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:51:51 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308142151.h7ELppX12599@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Perfomance Tuning +In-Reply-To: <60adaci99q.fsf@dev6.int.libertyrms.info> +To: Christopher Browne +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:51:51 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/269 +X-Sequence-Number: 3085 + +Christopher Browne wrote: +> threshar@torgo.978.org (Jeff) writes: +> > On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: +> >> As I have said elsewhere, Informix is probably a poor database to emulate +> >> since they are effectively an old dead-end fork of the Ingres/Postgres code, +> >> and have already been "mined" for most of the improvements they made. +> >> +> > With informix 7.0 they rewrote the entire thing from the ground up +> > to remove a bunch of limitations and build a multithreaded engine. +> > so it isn't so much an old fork anymore. +> +> No, I think you misunderstand the intent... +> +> The pre-7.0 version was based on Informix's B-Tree libraries, and the +> file structuring actually bears a marked resemblance to that of MySQL +> (that's an observation; neither forcibly a good or a bad thing), where +> there's a data file for the table, and then a bunch of index files, +> named somewhat after the table. +> +> In the 7.0-and-after era, they added in the "old dead-end fork of the +> Ingres/Postgres code" to get the "Universal Data Server." + +I think 9.0 was the the Ingres/Postgres code, not 7.X. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 21:31:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA53D1B524 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:18:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 32971-02 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:18:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A508DD1B56B + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:18:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7F0Hp5H008827; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:17:51 -0400 (EDT) +To: Bertrand Petit +Cc: Joe Conway , pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org +Subject: Re: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +In-reply-to: <20030815001730.A5628@memo.frmug.org> +References: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> + <15589.1060861546@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814165311.A4431@memo.frmug.org> + <1578.1060874322@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814200947.A4769@memo.frmug.org> + <7037.1060889820@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814215410.A5336@memo.frmug.org> + <7271.1060891412@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030815001730.A5628@memo.frmug.org> +Comments: In-reply-to Bertrand Petit + message dated "Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:17:30 +0200" +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:17:50 -0400 +Message-ID: <8826.1060906670@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/781 +X-Sequence-Number: 42438 + +Bertrand Petit writes: +> And I just got another one, much simpler, that failed the same +> way with the same data set: +> UPDATE rimdb_atitles SET aka_title=convert(byte_title,charset,'UTF8'); + +[ where rimdb_atitles has an index on column "attribs varchar[]" ] + +Uh-huh. Actually, any large insert or update on that table will run out +of memory, I bet. The problem appears to be due to the newly-added +support for indexing array columns --- array_cmp() leaks memory, which +is verboten for index support operators. + +At first I thought this would be an easy fix --- just rewrite array_cmp +to not depend on deconstruct_array, as array_eq already does not. +I soon found that that only reduced the speed of leakage, however. +The real problem comes from the fact that array_eq and array_cmp expect +to be able to save information across calls using flinfo->fn_extra. +While this works to some extent, the btree routines generate a new +scankey --- with a nulled fn_extra --- for every index AM call. btree +knows to delete the scankey when it's done, but it doesn't know anything +about deleting what fn_extra points to. (Even if it did, there is +additional leakage inside equality_oper(), which would be very difficult +to clean up directly.) + +Quite aside from the memory leak problem, it's annoying to think that +the array element information will be looked up again on every btree +operation. That seems expensive. + +I can think of a number of ways we might attack this, but none seem +especially attractive --- + +1. Have the index AMs create and switch into a special memory context +for each call, rather than running in the main execution context. +I am not sure this is workable at all, since the AMs tend to think they +can create data structures that will live across calls (for example a +btree lookup stack). It'd be the most general solution, if we could +make it work. + +2. Modify the index AMs so that the comparison function FmgrInfo is +preserved across a whole query. I think this requires changes to the +index AM API (index_insert for instance has no provision for sharing +data across multiple calls). Messy, and would likely mean an initdb. +It would probably be the fastest answer though, since lookups wouldn't +need to be done more than once per query. + +3. Set up a long-lived cache internal to the array functions that can +translate element type OID to the needed lookup data, and won't leak +memory across repeated calls. This is not the fastest or most general +solution, but it seems the most localized and safest fix. + +Has anyone got some other ideas? + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 14 21:47:52 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78355D1C4B8 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:42:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 39822-04 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:42:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542D4D1C4C7 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:42:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7F0fqn08208; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:41:52 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308150041.h7F0fqn08208@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +In-Reply-To: <8826.1060906670@sss.pgh.pa.us> +To: Tom Lane +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:41:52 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Bertrand Petit , + Joe Conway , pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/782 +X-Sequence-Number: 42439 + +> I can think of a number of ways we might attack this, but none seem +> especially attractive --- +> +> 1. Have the index AMs create and switch into a special memory context +> for each call, rather than running in the main execution context. +> I am not sure this is workable at all, since the AMs tend to think they +> can create data structures that will live across calls (for example a +> btree lookup stack). It'd be the most general solution, if we could +> make it work. +> +> 2. Modify the index AMs so that the comparison function FmgrInfo is +> preserved across a whole query. I think this requires changes to the +> index AM API (index_insert for instance has no provision for sharing +> data across multiple calls). Messy, and would likely mean an initdb. +> It would probably be the fastest answer though, since lookups wouldn't +> need to be done more than once per query. + +#2 seems most natural in that it formalizes something that is common for +lots of index methods. + +We are only in beta1, so I think we can initdb. + +> 3. Set up a long-lived cache internal to the array functions that can +> translate element type OID to the needed lookup data, and won't leak +> memory across repeated calls. This is not the fastest or most general +> solution, but it seems the most localized and safest fix. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 00:41:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C0A8D1C4DF + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 02:51:20 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 50897-08 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:51:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from joeconway.com (66-146-172-86.skyriver.net [66.146.172.86]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E484BD1C4C7 + for ; + Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:51:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.5.3] (account jconway HELO joeconway.com) + by joeconway.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.6) + with ESMTP-TLS id 31704; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:09:59 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F3C497C.1050200@joeconway.com> +Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:46:20 -0700 +From: Joe Conway +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Bertrand Petit , + pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org +Subject: Re: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +References: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> + <15589.1060861546@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814165311.A4431@memo.frmug.org> + <1578.1060874322@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814200947.A4769@memo.frmug.org> + <7037.1060889820@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814215410.A5336@memo.frmug.org> + <7271.1060891412@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030815001730.A5628@memo.frmug.org> + <8826.1060906670@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <8826.1060906670@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/784 +X-Sequence-Number: 42441 + +Tom Lane wrote: +> Bertrand Petit writes: +>> And I just got another one, much simpler, that failed the same +>>way with the same data set: +>>UPDATE rimdb_atitles SET aka_title=convert(byte_title,charset,'UTF8'); +> +> [ where rimdb_atitles has an index on column "attribs varchar[]" ] +> +> Uh-huh. Actually, any large insert or update on that table will run out +> of memory, I bet. The problem appears to be due to the newly-added +> support for indexing array columns --- array_cmp() leaks memory, which +> is verboten for index support operators. + +Ugh. + +> I can think of a number of ways we might attack this, but none seem +> especially attractive --- +> +> 1. Have the index AMs create and switch into a special memory context +> for each call, rather than running in the main execution context. +> I am not sure this is workable at all, since the AMs tend to think they +> can create data structures that will live across calls (for example a +> btree lookup stack). It'd be the most general solution, if we could +> make it work. + +This seems like a risky change at this point. + +> 2. Modify the index AMs so that the comparison function FmgrInfo is +> preserved across a whole query. I think this requires changes to the +> index AM API (index_insert for instance has no provision for sharing +> data across multiple calls). Messy, and would likely mean an initdb. +> It would probably be the fastest answer though, since lookups wouldn't +> need to be done more than once per query. + +This seems like a fairly big change this late in the game too. + +> 3. Set up a long-lived cache internal to the array functions that can +> translate element type OID to the needed lookup data, and won't leak +> memory across repeated calls. This is not the fastest or most general +> solution, but it seems the most localized and safest fix. +> + +I think I like #3 the best, but maybe that's because it's the one I +think I understand the best ;-) + +It seems to me that #3 is the least risky, and even if it isn't the best +possible performance, this is the initial implementation of indexes on +arrays, so it isn't like we're taking away something. Maybe solution #2 +is better held as a performance enhancement for 7.5. + +Do you want me to take a shot at this since I created the mess? + +Joe + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 06:13:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE479D1B524 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:34:36 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01272-01 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 03:34:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from beth.coza.net.za (beth.coza.net.za [206.223.136.193]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E117D1C50D + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 03:34:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from coza.net.za (mixo.coza.net.za [206.223.136.225]) + by beth.coza.net.za (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h7F6YJo12926 + for ; Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:34:21 +0200 +Message-ID: <3F3C7ED5.7050807@coza.net.za> +Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:33:57 +0200 +From: mixo +Reply-To: mixo@coza.net.za +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3b) Gecko/20030811 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Benchmark +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/271 +X-Sequence-Number: 3087 + +I have the following setup : + Apache 2 + mod_perl 2 + Postgres 7.3.2 + +I need to is measure the perfomance of a ticketing system (written in perl) +which has web interface (html::mason, apache2) with Pg as a backend. Users +of the ticketing system can only connect to the backend via the web +interface +and they usually login to the system at the begining of the the day and +remain +connected untill they knock of. I have setup two test machines, one with Pg +and the other with Mysql. Both machine have the same data (sample). + +I am looking for a benchmark utilty that the simulate a user session. +For example, a user login in, displaying a ticket and searching for tickets; +all these invlove a user connecting to the a url, like for search, a +user needs +to open "somehost.domain/path/to/search.html?with=arguments". The +utiltly needs +to simulate these actions. + +The following tools currently have so far caught my attention: + Apache Jmeter + ab + +I need suggestions for other utilities. + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 07:26:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7AEED1C50D + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:32:36 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18581-06 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:32:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DA6D1B539 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:32:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7F9WNi28136 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:32:23 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7F9WLV28126; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:32:21 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 7050E6FCCC; Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:32:11 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 64E837F6CC; Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:32:11 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:32:11 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: mixo +Cc: +Subject: Re: Benchmark +In-Reply-To: <3F3C7ED5.7050807@coza.net.za> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/272 +X-Sequence-Number: 3088 + +2003-08-15 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n mixo ezt =FCzente: + +> For example, a user login in, displaying a ticket and searching for ticke= +ts; +> all these invlove a user connecting to the a url, like for search, a +> user needs +> to open "somehost.domain/path/to/search.html?with=3Darguments". The +> utiltly needs +> to simulate these actions. + +Maybe a simple script, with lines like this: +#!/bin/bash +wget http://somehost.domain/path/to/search.html?with=3Darguments +wget http://somehost.domain/another/script.html +... + +? + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 08:13:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD66ED1C4B8 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:05:09 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 28506-02 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:05:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from host8.checkdomain.de (host8.checkdomain.de [62.116.141.18]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42EF3D1B539 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:04:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from schlichting.net (pD9E63F3D.dip.t-dialin.net [217.230.63.61]) + (authenticated) + by host8.checkdomain.de (8.11.2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7FA4FE09825; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:04:56 +0200 +Message-ID: <3F3CB08C.9080308@schlichting.net> +Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:06:04 +0200 +From: Toni Schlichting +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030617 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: On Linux Filesystems +References: <20030810200440.B2396@cookie> <3032.1060617279@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811100740.D2396@cookie> <3855.1060622959@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030811104447.G2396@cookie> <4146.1060624411@sss.pgh.pa.us> + +In-Reply-To: +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/273 +X-Sequence-Number: 3089 + +Christopher, I appreciate your comments. At the end it goes down to personal +experience with one or the other file system. From that I can tell, that +I have +made good experience with UFS, EXT2, and XFS. I made catastrophic ex- +perience with ReiserFS (not during operation but you are a looser when +it fails +because the recovery methods are likely to be insufficient) + +So at the end if somebody runs technical equipment, regardless whether it's +a computer or a chemical fab. It can fail and you need to make up your mind +about contingency. + +This is due even before you start operating the equipment. + +So waste too much time on thinking about the perfect file system. But +evaluate +the potential damage that can result from failure. Develop a Backup&Recovery +strategy and test it, test it and test it again, so that you can do it +blindly when it's +due. + +Ciao, Toni + +>I wish there were more "hard and fast" conclusions to draw, to be able +>to conclusively say that one or another Linux filesystem was +>unambiguously preferable for use with PostgreSQL. There are not +>conclusive metrics, either in terms of speed or of some notion of +>"reliability." I'd expect ReiserFS to be the poorest choice, and for +>XFS to be the best, but I only have fuzzy reasons, as opposed to +>metrics. +> +>The absence of measurable metrics of the sort is _NOT_ a proof that +>(say) FreeBSD is conclusively preferable, whatever your own +>preferences (I'll try to avoid characterizing it as "prejudices," as +>that would be unkind) may be. That would represent a quite separate +>debate, and one that doesn't belong here, certainly not on a thread +>where the underlying question was "Which Linux FS is preferred?" +> +>If the OSDB TPC-like benchmarks can get "packaged" up well enough to +>easily run and rerun them, there's hope of getting better answers, +>perhaps even including performance metrics for *BSD. That, not +>Linux-baiting, is the answer... +> +> + + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 08:41:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DE2D1C4B8 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:10:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 34525-05 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:10:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63873D1C918 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:10:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7FB9x5H012304; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:09:59 -0400 (EDT) +To: Joe Conway +Cc: Bertrand Petit , + pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +In-reply-to: <3F3C497C.1050200@joeconway.com> +References: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> + <15589.1060861546@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814165311.A4431@memo.frmug.org> + <1578.1060874322@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814200947.A4769@memo.frmug.org> + <7037.1060889820@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814215410.A5336@memo.frmug.org> + <7271.1060891412@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030815001730.A5628@memo.frmug.org> + <8826.1060906670@sss.pgh.pa.us> <3F3C497C.1050200@joeconway.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Joe Conway + message dated "Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:46:20 -0700" +Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:09:58 -0400 +Message-ID: <12303.1060945798@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/800 +X-Sequence-Number: 42457 + +Joe Conway writes: +> Tom Lane wrote: +>> 3. Set up a long-lived cache internal to the array functions that can +>> translate element type OID to the needed lookup data, and won't leak +>> memory across repeated calls. This is not the fastest or most general +>> solution, but it seems the most localized and safest fix. + +> It seems to me that #3 is the least risky, and even if it isn't the best +> possible performance, this is the initial implementation of indexes on +> arrays, so it isn't like we're taking away something. Maybe solution #2 +> is better held as a performance enhancement for 7.5. + +I'm leaning that way too. It occurs to me also that the same cache +could be used to eliminate repeated lookups in sorting setup --- which +would not be much of a win percentagewise, compared to the sort itself, +but still it seems worth doing. + +> Do you want me to take a shot at this since I created the mess? + +Actually I led you down the garden path on that, IIRC --- I was the one +who insisted these lookups needed to be cached. I'll work on fixing it. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 11:35:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FA8D1C4D6 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:12:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 47849-07 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:12:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net + [194.217.242.88]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0C0D1C4CD + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:12:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mwynhau.demon.co.uk ([193.237.186.96] + helo=mainbox.archonet.com) + by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) + id 19neNF-000HpO-0U; Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:12:10 +0100 +Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id D1E3917297; Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:12:08 +0100 (BST) +Received: from client17.archonet.com (client17.archonet.com [192.168.1.17]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 3600017296; Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:12:08 +0100 (BST) +From: Richard Huxton +To: mixo@coza.net.za, pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Benchmark +Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:12:08 +0100 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +References: <3F3C7ED5.7050807@coza.net.za> +In-Reply-To: <3F3C7ED5.7050807@coza.net.za> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308151412.08155.dev@archonet.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/274 +X-Sequence-Number: 3090 + +On Friday 15 August 2003 07:33, mixo wrote: +> I have the following setup : +> Apache 2 + mod_perl 2 +> Postgres 7.3.2 +> + +> I am looking for a benchmark utilty that the simulate a user session. +> For example, a user login in, displaying a ticket and searching for +> tickets; all these invlove a user connecting to the a url, like for search, +> a user needs +> to open "somehost.domain/path/to/search.html?with=arguments". The +> utiltly needs +> to simulate these actions. +> +> The following tools currently have so far caught my attention: +> Apache Jmeter +> ab + +Depending on how complex things are, you may be able to use Tomka's suggestion +of a batch of wget commands. + +However, if you want to be able to fill in forms, handle cookies and react to +results you might want to look at something based on Perl's LWP bundle +(LWP::UserAgent is a good start point). + +If you want to see how many users can be supported, don't forget to include +plausible delays in the test sequence where the users would be +reading/entering data. + +If you do find some flexible, scriptable web testing system that can read/fill +out forms etc please post to the list - I've had no luck finding anything I +like. + +-- + Richard Huxton + Archonet Ltd + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 13:44:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1FDAD1B8A1 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:22:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 82571-05 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:21:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D65D1B89A + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:21:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3515151; Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:21:52 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: mixo@coza.net.za, pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Benchmark +Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:21:06 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: <3F3C7ED5.7050807@coza.net.za> +In-Reply-To: <3F3C7ED5.7050807@coza.net.za> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308150921.06815.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/275 +X-Sequence-Number: 3091 + +Mixo, + +> I need to is measure the perfomance of a ticketing system (written in perl) +> which has web interface (html::mason, apache2) with Pg as a backend. Users +> of the ticketing system can only connect to the backend via the web +> interface + +I'd suggest Perl LWP. There's even a good article on how to use it in last +month's Linux Magazine (or the previous month, not sure). + +Don't forget to come back here for help in tweaking your PostgreSQL settings! + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 15:24:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E23D1B8CD + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:24:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 10316-10 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:24:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7AAD8D1B539 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:24:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 28232 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2003 18:24:01 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 15 Aug 2003 18:24:01 -0000 +Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:24:01 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Richard Huxton +Cc: "mixo@coza.net.za" , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Benchmark +In-Reply-To: <200308151412.08155.dev@archonet.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/276 +X-Sequence-Number: 3092 + +On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Richard Huxton wrote: + +> If you do find some flexible, scriptable web testing system that can read/fill +> out forms etc please post to the list - I've had no luck finding anything I +> like. +> +There was a tool created by altavista R&D called "WebL" that I used on a +project. I think if you search around you'll be able to find it. + +However, I think it has developed "bit rot" from not being touched in so +long. My old webl stuff will no longer work. + +But what is it? it is a web scraping language written in java. Fast it is +not. Easy to scrape and interact with pages: YES. It has all sorts of +things for locating fields, locating table cells, etc. (I used it for +writing a prototype that would scrape a competitors site and import the +data into our application :) + +but if it doesn't work LWP isn't _that_ bad. You will end up in regex hell +though. + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 15 15:47:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC80D1B8D4 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:47:44 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18467-09 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:47:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from v2.intertune.com (unknown [209.75.26.20]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B1CD1B8D0 + for ; + Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:47:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from MOBILE01 (216-70-225-195.cust.telepacific.net [216.70.225.195]) + (authenticated) + by v2.intertune.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7FJ8q327545 + for ; Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:08:52 -0700 +From: "Balazs Wellisch" +To: +Subject: Re: Benchmark +Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:47:21 -0700 +Message-ID: <001e01c3635d$afb74dc0$3a00a8c0@MOBILE01> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +Importance: Normal +In-Reply-To: <3F3C7ED5.7050807@coza.net.za> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/277 +X-Sequence-Number: 3093 + +You might want to check out these links: + +http://www.loadtestingtool.com/download.html +http://www.opensta.org/ +http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/TechNet/itsol +utions/intranet/downloads/webstres.asp?frame=true +http://www.softwareqatest.com/qatweb1.html + + +Balazs + + + +-----Original Message----- +From: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org +[mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of mixo +Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:34 PM +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: [PERFORM] Benchmark + +I have the following setup : + Apache 2 + mod_perl 2 + Postgres 7.3.2 + +I need to is measure the perfomance of a ticketing system (written in +perl) +which has web interface (html::mason, apache2) with Pg as a backend. +Users +of the ticketing system can only connect to the backend via the web +interface +and they usually login to the system at the begining of the the day and +remain +connected untill they knock of. I have setup two test machines, one with +Pg +and the other with Mysql. Both machine have the same data (sample). + +I am looking for a benchmark utilty that the simulate a user session. +For example, a user login in, displaying a ticket and searching for +tickets; +all these invlove a user connecting to the a url, like for search, a +user needs +to open "somehost.domain/path/to/search.html?with=arguments". The +utiltly needs +to simulate these actions. + +The following tools currently have so far caught my attention: + Apache Jmeter + ab + +I need suggestions for other utilities. + + + +---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command + (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org) + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 16 05:38:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54854D1B524 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:38:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33041-07 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 05:38:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1ACBD1B523 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 05:38:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7G8fgIg026225 + for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2003 14:11:43 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7G8ff3g026202 + for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2003 14:11:41 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 14:10:15 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary=Message-Boundary-17717 +Subject: Insert performance +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F3E3B47.13828.333B51D9@localhost> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/278 +X-Sequence-Number: 3094 + +--Message-Boundary-17717 +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body + +Hi all, + +Couple of days ago, one of my colleague, Rahul Iyer posted a query regarding +insert performance of 5M rows. A common suggestion was to use copy. + +Unfortunately he can not use copy due to some constraints. I was helping him to +get maximum out of it. We were playing with a data set of 500K rows on SunOS5.6 +and postgresql 7.3.3 + +Best we could get was 500K records in 355 sec. That's roughly 1400 inserts per +sec. This was with default settings and around 10K inserts per transaction. +Postgresql was hogging all the CPU during load. + +Troubled by this, I set up a similar database at home. That is a Athlon +XP2000+/512MB machine with a 40GB seagate disk. It is running slackware 9.0 +with 2.4.20(IIRC). + +I have attached the results of my experiements and the code I used to +benchmark. It was a simple table with an integer and a varchar(30) field. + +I was really amazed to see the numbers. First of all, it beat the sunOS machine + left and right. Bruce posted some numbers of 9K inserts/sec. Here we see the +same. + +Secondly I also played with filesystems. Ext3 does not seem to be performing as +good. Reiser and ext2 did fine. Unfortunately the kernel didn't support XFS/JFS +so could not test them. + +I have also attached the raw benchmark data in kspread format, for the curious. +Didn't exported to anything else because kspread had troubles with exporting +formula values. + +I also noticed that reiser takes hell lot more CPU than ext2 and ext3. It +nearly peaks out all CPU capacity. Not so with ext2. + +Comments? One thing I can't help to notice is sunOs is not on same scale. The +sunOS machine is a 1GB RAM machine. It has oracle and mysql running on it and +have 300MB swap in use but I am sure it has SCSI disk and in all respect I +would rather expect a RISC machine to perform better than an athlon XP machine, +at least for an IO. + +If you want me to post details of sparc machine, please let me know how do I +find it. I have never worked with sparcs earlier and have no intention of doing +this again..:-) + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Fourth Law of Applied Terror: The night before the English History mid-term, +your Biology instructor will assign 200 pages on planaria.Corollary: Every +instructor assumes that you have nothing else to do except study for that +instructor's course. + + +--Message-Boundary-17717 +Content-type: Application/Octet-stream; name="insert.c"; type=Program-source +Content-disposition: attachment; filename="insert.c" +Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 + +I2luY2x1ZGUgPHN0ZGlvLmg+DQojaW5jbHVkZSA8bGlicHEtZmUuaD4NCiNp +bmNsdWRlIDxzdGRsaWIuaD4NCg0KaW50IG1haW4oaW50IGFyZ2MsY2hhciAq +KmFyZ3YpDQp7DQogUEdjb25uICpjb249UFFjb25uZWN0ZGIoImRibmFtZT10 +ZXN0MSIpOw0KIFBHcmVzdWx0ICpyZXM7DQogaW50IHRzaXplLHRjb3VudCxp +Ow0KDQogaWYoUFFzdGF0dXMoY29uKT09Q09OTkVDVElPTl9CQUQpDQogew0K +ICBmcHJpbnRmKHN0ZGVyciwiRGF0YWJhc2UgY29ubmVjdGlvbiBlcnJvciAl +c1xuIixQUWVycm9yTWVzc2FnZShjb24pKTsNCiAgZXhpdCgtMSk7DQogfQ0K 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+DDmMEjN0SmAdZD794ZLvanXq7pIS6qE+3yOPx1lZXXp6DvBSd76KpqHWjx0v +ju9C7sqRktGQ/Pr3Qv749ftvifzd6vAvfiXkf75ESH74BZHfG/7sAfw/XweN +/vw4/kfrPz5n/udL78EPT5135Q4cBE7vJ/yZJhxp7YCr/x9QSwECFAAUAAAA +CADyuA8vrsaAlaVQAAAScwAADwAAAAAAAAAAACAAtoEAAAAAcGdiZW5jaG1h +cmsua3NwUEsFBgAAAAABAAEAPQAAANJQAAAAAA== + +--Message-Boundary-17717-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 16 17:33:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA281D1B897 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:26:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 21848-02 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:26:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47082D1BA54 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 15:41:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3519548; Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:41:54 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in, + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Insert performance +Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:40:59 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: <3F3E3B47.13828.333B51D9@localhost> +In-Reply-To: <3F3E3B47.13828.333B51D9@localhost> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308161140.59764.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/279 +X-Sequence-Number: 3095 + +Shridhar, + +> Unfortunately he can not use copy due to some constraints. + +Why not use COPY to load the table, and then apply the constraints by query +afterwords? It might not be faster, but then again it might. + +> I was really amazed to see the numbers. First of all, it beat the sunOS +> machine left and right. Bruce posted some numbers of 9K inserts/sec. Here +> we see the same. + +> Comments? One thing I can't help to notice is sunOs is not on same scale. +> The sunOS machine is a 1GB RAM machine. It has oracle and mysql running on +> it and have 300MB swap in use but I am sure it has SCSI disk and in all +> respect I would rather expect a RISC machine to perform better than an +> athlon XP machine, at least for an IO. + +It's been reported on this list several times that Solaris is the *worst* of +the *nixes for PostgreSQL performance. No analysis has been posted as to +why; my own thoughts are: + - Solaris' multi-threaded architecture which imposes a hefty per-process +overhead, about triple that of Linux, slowing new connections and large +multi-user activity; + - Poor filesystem management; Sun simply hasn't kept up with IBM, Reiser, Red +Hat and BSD in developing filesystems. + ... but that's based on inadequate experimentation, just a few tests on +Bonnie++ on a Netra running Solaris 8. + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 16 19:50:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2028ED1B897 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:49:58 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 31066-09 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:49:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC5CD1B8B7 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:49:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7GMnlem094733 + for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:49:47 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7GMN2ZW091790 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:23:02 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Insert performance +Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 18:22:48 -0400 +Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc +Lines: 35 +Message-ID: +References: <3F3E3B47.13828.333B51D9@localhost> + <200308161140.59764.josh@agliodbs.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? +X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ +X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:UP4/Pv3wqcoo/TbzgM5koaM7nhY= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/280 +X-Sequence-Number: 3096 + +Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing whenjosh@agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus)wrote: +> Shridhar, +>> Unfortunately he can not use copy due to some constraints. + +> Why not use COPY to load the table, and then apply the constraints +> by query afterwords? It might not be faster, but then again it +> might. + +If you can transform the information into COPYable form, that's +certainly a good thing. Whether it will be workable or not is another +question. + +> ... but that's based on inadequate experimentation, just a few tests +> on Bonnie++ on a Netra running Solaris 8. + +As far as the filesystem issues are concerned, you're probably using +an "old, standard" version of UFS. The "high performance" option on +Solaris involves using third-party Veritas software. + +The persistence of this is somewhat surprising; I'd somewhat have +expected Sun to have bought out Veritas or some such thing, as it's a +pretty vital technology that _isn't_ totally under their control. +Actually, an entertaining option would be for them to buy out SGI, as +that would get them control of XFS and a number of other interesting +technologies. + +My expectations of a Netra wouldn't be terribly high, either; they +seem to exist as a product so that people that need a cheap Sun box +have an option. They are mostly running IDE disk, and the latest +IA-32 hardware is likely to have newer faster interface options. +-- +(format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "ntlug.org") +http://cbbrowne.com/info/advocacy.html +"Windows NT was designed to be administered by an idiot and usually +is..." -- Chris Adams" + +From pgsql-docs-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 16 21:42:30 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-docs-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1D2D1B53A + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:37:10 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 57497-01 + for ; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:37:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1506D1B524 + for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:36:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7H0avV17926; + Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:36:57 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308170036.h7H0avV17926@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] PostgreSQL vs. MySQL +In-Reply-To: <20030704182853.GK4707@libertyrms.info> +To: Andrew Sullivan +Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:36:57 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/51 +X-Sequence-Number: 1911 + + +Do we need to add a mention of the need for tuning to the install docs? + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +Andrew Sullivan wrote: +> On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 08:07:18PM +0200, Arjen van der Meijden wrote: +> > > Andrew Sullivan wrote: +> > > results under production conditions, and not bother to read +> > > even the basic "quickstart"-type stuff that is kicking +> > > around. +> > Then please point out where it sais, in the documentation, that the +> > value for the shared_memory of 64 is too low and that 4000 is a nice +> > value to start with? +> +> I think I did indeed speak too soon, as the criticism is a fair one: +> nowhere in the installation instructions or the "getting started" +> docs does it say that you really ought to do some tuning once you +> have the system installed. Can I suggest for the time being that +> something along these lines should go in 14.6.3, "Tuning the +> installation": +> +> ---snip--- +> By default, PostgreSQL is configured to run on minimal hardware. As +> a result, some tuning of your installation will be necessary before +> using it for anything other than extremely small databases. At the +> very least, it will probably be necessary to increase your shared +> buffers setting. See Chapter 16 for details on what tuning options +> are available to you. +> ---snip--- +> +> > I'm sorry to put this in a such a confronting manner, but you simply +> > can't expect people to search for information that they don't know the +> > existence of. +> +> No need to apologise; I think you're right. +> +> A +> +> -- +> ---- +> Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +> Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada +> M2P 2A8 +> +1 416 646 3304 x110 +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? +> +> http://archives.postgresql.org +> + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 17 00:52:44 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52DBD1B8A2 + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:52:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 81820-10 + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:52:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from newsometer.securesites.net (newsometer.securesites.net + [128.121.51.168]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7432CD1B523 + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:52:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from skiddlydee.com (YahooBB218176088089.bbtec.net [218.176.88.89]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by newsometer.securesites.net (8.12.6p2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id + h7H3q8bW068472; Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:52:09 GMT + (envelope-from dave@skiddlydee.com) +Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:48:24 +0900 +Subject: Re: Benchmark +Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed +Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +To: mixo@coza.net.za +From: David Emery +In-Reply-To: <200308150921.06815.josh@agliodbs.com> +Message-Id: +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/281 +X-Sequence-Number: 3097 + + +On Saturday, August 16, 2003, at 01:21 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: + +> Mixo, +> +>> I need to is measure the perfomance of a ticketing system (written in +>> perl) +>> which has web interface (html::mason, apache2) with Pg as a backend. +>> Users +>> of the ticketing system can only connect to the backend via the web +>> interface +> +> I'd suggest Perl LWP. There's even a good article on how to use it in +> last +> month's Linux Magazine (or the previous month, not sure). +> + +The Perl module HTTP::WebTest should help you do what you want. + +http://search.cpan.org/author/ILYAM/HTTP-WebTest-2.03/lib/HTTP/ +WebTest.pm + +It should save a ton of time over building one from scratch. Lots of +docs too. There are other Perl web testing tools too if you do a search +at: + +http://search.cpan.org + +HTH, +Dave + + +From pgsql-docs-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 17 21:16:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-docs-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9752ED1B8A4 + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:06:41 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 85902-04 + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:06:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F63FD1B89E + for ; Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:06:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from andrew by mail.libertyrms.com with local (Exim 3.22 #3 + (Debian)) + id 19oP6p-0007MG-00; Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:06:19 -0400 +Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:06:19 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Andrew Sullivan , + PostgreSQL-documentation +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] PostgreSQL vs. MySQL +Message-ID: <20030817110619.A28221@mail.libertyrms.com> +References: <20030704182853.GK4707@libertyrms.info> + <200308170036.h7H0avV17926@candle.pha.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i +In-Reply-To: <200308170036.h7H0avV17926@candle.pha.pa.us>; + from pgman@candle.pha.pa.us on Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 08:36:57PM + -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/55 +X-Sequence-Number: 1915 + +On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 08:36:57PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> +> Do we need to add a mention of the need for tuning to the install docs? + +Wouldn't be a bad idea, as far as I'm concerned. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 17 19:25:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13DC1D1B89E + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:25:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 45071-08 + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:25:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 988F3D1B539 + for ; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:25:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7HMP85H002519; + Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:25:09 -0400 (EDT) +To: Joe Conway , + Bertrand Petit +Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: 7.4 beta 1 getting out of swap +In-reply-to: <12303.1060945798@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <20030814122130.A3583@memo.frmug.org> + <15589.1060861546@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814165311.A4431@memo.frmug.org> + <1578.1060874322@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814200947.A4769@memo.frmug.org> + <7037.1060889820@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030814215410.A5336@memo.frmug.org> + <7271.1060891412@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030815001730.A5628@memo.frmug.org> + <8826.1060906670@sss.pgh.pa.us> <3F3C497C.1050200@joeconway.com> + <12303.1060945798@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Comments: In-reply-to Tom Lane + message dated "Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:09:58 -0400" +Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:25:08 -0400 +Message-ID: <2518.1061159108@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/887 +X-Sequence-Number: 42544 + +> Joe Conway writes: +>> Tom Lane wrote: +> 3. Set up a long-lived cache internal to the array functions that can +> translate element type OID to the needed lookup data, and won't leak +> memory across repeated calls. This is not the fastest or most general +> solution, but it seems the most localized and safest fix. + +>> It seems to me that #3 is the least risky, and even if it isn't the best +>> possible performance, this is the initial implementation of indexes on +>> arrays, so it isn't like we're taking away something. Maybe solution #2 +>> is better held as a performance enhancement for 7.5. + +> I'm leaning that way too. It occurs to me also that the same cache +> could be used to eliminate repeated lookups in sorting setup --- which +> would not be much of a win percentagewise, compared to the sort itself, +> but still it seems worth doing. + +I've committed fixes for this, and verified that inserts/updates on an +indexed array column don't leak memory anymore. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 03:23:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D26D1B8A5 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 06:19:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 28179-06 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:19:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2D0D1B89E + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:19:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7I6NVfO003466 + for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:53:31 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7I6NU3g003453 + for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:53:31 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:51:32 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Insert performance +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F40BDC4.1605.9407ADF@localhost> +In-reply-to: <200308161140.59764.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: <3F3E3B47.13828.333B51D9@localhost> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/282 +X-Sequence-Number: 3098 + +On 16 Aug 2003 at 11:40, Josh Berkus wrote: + +> Shridhar, +> +> > Unfortunately he can not use copy due to some constraints. +> +> Why not use COPY to load the table, and then apply the constraints by query +> afterwords? It might not be faster, but then again it might. + +Lol.. The constraints I mentioned weren't database constraints.. It need to +interface with another database module.. The data import can not be text.. +that's a project requirement.. + +I should have been clearer in first place.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law: Murphy was an optimist. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 15:54:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C21BD1B56B + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:43:41 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 29432-09 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:43:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from unimm.unisoftbg.com (mail.unisoftbg.com [194.12.229.207]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977D0D1B89E + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:43:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 3307 invoked by uid 507); 18 Aug 2003 11:19:13 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO t1.unisoftbg.com) + (pginfo%t1.unisoftbg.com@194.12.229.193) + by 0 with SMTP; 18 Aug 2003 11:19:13 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F40A623.FF953D8E@t1.unisoftbg.com> +Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:10:43 +0200 +From: pginfo +X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: bad join preformance +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/286 +X-Sequence-Number: 3102 + +Hi , +I am using pg 7.3.3 on RH 7.3, +dual Athlon +1 GB RAM. + +I have 2 tables a_acc and a_vid_doc (all PK are int). + +sizes: + + select count(IDS) from a_acc; + count +--------- + 1006772 + +select count(IDS) from a_vid_doc; + count +------- + 25 + +I have problem with the join ot this tables. +I tryed this examples: + + explain analyze select G.IDS from A_ACC G join A_VID_DOC VD +ON(G.IDS_VID_DOC=VD.IDS) WHERE G.IDS = 1338673 ; + QUERY +PLAN +----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + + Merge Join (cost=1.83..1.97 rows=1 width=12) (actual +time=40.78..2085.82 rows=1 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".ids_vid_doc = "inner".ids) + -> Index Scan using i_a_acc_ids_vid_doc on a_acc g +(cost=0.00..43706.42 rows=1 width=8) (actual time=40.52..2085.55 rows=1 +loops=1) + Filter: (ids = 1338673) + -> Sort (cost=1.83..1.89 rows=25 width=4) (actual time=0.22..0.22 +rows=25 loops=1) + Sort Key: vd.ids + -> Seq Scan on a_vid_doc vd (cost=0.00..1.25 rows=25 width=4) +(actual time=0.05..0.07 rows=25 loops=1) + Total runtime: 2085.93 msec +(8 rows) + + +and + + explain analyze select G.IDS from A_ACC G , A_VID_DOC VD where +G.IDS_VID_DOC=VD.IDS and G.IDS = 1338673 ; + QUERY +PLAN +----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + + Merge Join (cost=1.83..1.97 rows=1 width=12) (actual +time=40.91..2099.13 rows=1 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".ids_vid_doc = "inner".ids) + -> Index Scan using i_a_acc_ids_vid_doc on a_acc g +(cost=0.00..43706.42 rows=1 width=8) (actual time=40.65..2098.86 rows=1 +loops=1) + Filter: (ids = 1338673) + -> Sort (cost=1.83..1.89 rows=25 width=4) (actual time=0.22..0.22 +rows=25 loops=1) + Sort Key: vd.ids + -> Seq Scan on a_vid_doc vd (cost=0.00..1.25 rows=25 width=4) +(actual time=0.05..0.07 rows=25 loops=1) + Total runtime: 2099.24 msec +(8 rows) + + From time to time the second one is very slow (15-17 sek). + +If I execute: + + explain analyze select G.IDS from A_ACC G where G.IDS = 1338673 ; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + + Index Scan using a_acc_pkey on a_acc g (cost=0.00..3.13 rows=1 +width=4) (actual time=0.06..0.06 rows=1 loops=1) + Index Cond: (ids = 1338673) + Total runtime: 0.11 msec +(3 rows) + +, all is working well. + +How can I find the problem? +I have index on A_ACC.IDS_VID_DOC and have vacuum full analyze; +Will it help if I make A_ACC.IDS_VID_DOC not null ? + +My problem is that I will execute this query many times and ~ 2 sek is +very slow for me. + +Many thanks and best regards, +ivan. + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 14:25:56 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62CC0D1B89F + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:05:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26494-10 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:05:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from unimm.unisoftbg.com (mail.unisoftbg.com [194.12.229.207]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF31D1B89A + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:05:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 9691 invoked by uid 507); 18 Aug 2003 16:07:19 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO t1.unisoftbg.com) + (pginfo%t1.unisoftbg.com@194.12.229.193) + by 0 with SMTP; 18 Aug 2003 16:07:19 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F40E9A9.12AE5D55@t1.unisoftbg.com> +Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:58:49 +0200 +From: pginfo +X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: bad join performance +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/283 +X-Sequence-Number: 3099 + +Hi , +I am using pg 7.3.3 on RH 7.3, +dual Athlon +1 GB RAM. + +I have 2 tables a_acc and a_vid_doc (all PK are int). + +sizes: + + select count(IDS) from a_acc; + count +--------- + 1006772 + +select count(IDS) from a_vid_doc; + count +------- + 25 + +I have problem with the join ot this tables. +I tryed this examples: + + explain analyze select G.IDS from A_ACC G join A_VID_DOC VD +ON(G.IDS_VID_DOC=VD.IDS) WHERE G.IDS = 1338673 ; + QUERY +PLAN +----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + + Merge Join (cost=1.83..1.97 rows=1 width=12) (actual +time=40.78..2085.82 rows=1 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".ids_vid_doc = "inner".ids) + -> Index Scan using i_a_acc_ids_vid_doc on a_acc g +(cost=0.00..43706.42 rows=1 width=8) (actual time=40.52..2085.55 rows=1 +loops=1) + Filter: (ids = 1338673) + -> Sort (cost=1.83..1.89 rows=25 width=4) (actual time=0.22..0.22 +rows=25 loops=1) + Sort Key: vd.ids + -> Seq Scan on a_vid_doc vd (cost=0.00..1.25 rows=25 width=4) + +(actual time=0.05..0.07 rows=25 loops=1) + Total runtime: 2085.93 msec +(8 rows) + + +and + + explain analyze select G.IDS from A_ACC G , A_VID_DOC VD where +G.IDS_VID_DOC=VD.IDS and G.IDS = 1338673 ; + QUERY +PLAN +----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + + Merge Join (cost=1.83..1.97 rows=1 width=12) (actual +time=40.91..2099.13 rows=1 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".ids_vid_doc = "inner".ids) + -> Index Scan using i_a_acc_ids_vid_doc on a_acc g +(cost=0.00..43706.42 rows=1 width=8) (actual time=40.65..2098.86 rows=1 +loops=1) + Filter: (ids = 1338673) + -> Sort (cost=1.83..1.89 rows=25 width=4) (actual time=0.22..0.22 +rows=25 loops=1) + Sort Key: vd.ids + -> Seq Scan on a_vid_doc vd (cost=0.00..1.25 rows=25 width=4) + +(actual time=0.05..0.07 rows=25 loops=1) + Total runtime: 2099.24 msec +(8 rows) + +>From time to time the second one is very slow (15-17 sek). + +If I execute: + + explain analyze select G.IDS from A_ACC G where G.IDS = 1338673 ; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + + Index Scan using a_acc_pkey on a_acc g (cost=0.00..3.13 rows=1 +width=4) (actual time=0.06..0.06 rows=1 loops=1) + Index Cond: (ids = 1338673) + Total runtime: 0.11 msec +(3 rows) + +, all is working well. + +How can I find the problem? +I have index on A_ACC.IDS_VID_DOC and have vacuum full analyze; +Will it help if I make A_ACC.IDS_VID_DOC not null ? + +My problem is that I will execute this query many times and ~ 2 sek is +very slow for me. + +Many thanks and best regards, +ivan. + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 16:11:05 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0723D1B89F + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:53:20 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 23319-09 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:53:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fuji.krosing.net (unknown [194.204.44.104]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215B6D1B897 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:53:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fuji.krosing.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by fuji.krosing.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7IFqosQ002646; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:52:50 +0300 +Received: (from hannu@localhost) + by fuji.krosing.net (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h7IFqhGX002643; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:52:43 +0300 +X-Authentication-Warning: fuji.krosing.net: hannu set sender to hannu@tm.ee + using -f +Subject: Re: Insert performance +From: Hannu Krosing +To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <3F40BDC4.1605.9407ADF@localhost> +References: <3F3E3B47.13828.333B51D9@localhost> + <3F40BDC4.1605.9407ADF@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-Id: <1061221963.2620.4.camel@fuji.krosing.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:52:43 +0300 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/287 +X-Sequence-Number: 3103 + +Shridhar Daithankar kirjutas E, 18.08.2003 kell 09:21: +> On 16 Aug 2003 at 11:40, Josh Berkus wrote: +> +> > Shridhar, +> > +> > > Unfortunately he can not use copy due to some constraints. +> > +> > Why not use COPY to load the table, and then apply the constraints by query +> > afterwords? It might not be faster, but then again it might. +> +> Lol.. The constraints I mentioned weren't database constraints.. + +Can't you still apply them later ;) + +My own experimentation also got numbers in 9k/sec range (on a quad +1.3GHz Xeons, 2GM mem, 50MB/sec raid) when doing 10-20 parallel runs of +~1000 inserts/transaction. + +Performance dropped to ~300/sec (at about 60M rows) when I added an +index (primary key) - as I did random inserts, the hit rates for index +pages were probably low. + +-------------- +Hannu + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 14:32:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AB3D1B539 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:00:46 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 28626-03 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:00:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3556D1B56B + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:00:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7IG4XZo028354 + for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:34:33 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7IG4W3g028341 + for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:34:33 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:32:27 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Insert performance +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4145EB.20645.B5452D9@localhost> +In-reply-to: <1061221963.2620.4.camel@fuji.krosing.net> +References: <3F40BDC4.1605.9407ADF@localhost> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/284 +X-Sequence-Number: 3100 + +On 18 Aug 2003 at 18:52, Hannu Krosing wrote: +> My own experimentation also got numbers in 9k/sec range (on a quad +> 1.3GHz Xeons, 2GM mem, 50MB/sec raid) when doing 10-20 parallel runs of +> ~1000 inserts/transaction. +> +> Performance dropped to ~300/sec (at about 60M rows) when I added an +> index (primary key) - as I did random inserts, the hit rates for index +> pages were probably low. + +I was loading a geographic data couple of months back.. It was 3GB data when +loaded in postgresql. + +I tried loading data first and creating index later. It ran out of available +9GB space. So I created index on an empty table and started loading it. It was +slow but at least finished after 3 hours... Co-incidentally oracle had same +problems as well. So creating index beforehand remains only option at times, it +seems. Tom remarked that it shouldn't have made difference but apparently it +does.. + +You mentioned parallel runs and still getting 9K/sec. Was that overall 9K or +per connection? If it is former, probably WAL is hit too hard. You could do +some additional testing by having WALit's own disk. + +I was plannning to do the multiple writers test. But since objective was to +find out why postgresql was so slow and it tunred out to be slowaris in first +place, didn't have any enthu. left. + +I recommended my colleague to move to linux. But apparently this product is a +part of suit which runs on some HUGE solaris machines. So if it has to run +postgresql, it has to run sunos. I hope they are faster with SCSI.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +On my planet, to rest is to rest -- to cease using energy. To me, itis quite +illogical to run up and down on green grass, using energy,instead of saving it. + -- Spock, "Shore Leave", stardate 3025.2 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 15:48:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A0BD1B539 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:58:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38037-03 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:58:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C26ED1B56B + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:58:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [63.195.55.98] (HELO spooky) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3523788; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:58:31 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Josh Berkus +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Christopher Browne , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Insert performance +Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:57:59 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: <3F3E3B47.13828.333B51D9@localhost> + <200308161140.59764.josh@agliodbs.com> + +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +Message-Id: <200308180957.59891.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/285 +X-Sequence-Number: 3101 + +Chris, + +> My expectations of a Netra wouldn't be terribly high, either; they +> seem to exist as a product so that people that need a cheap Sun box +> have an option. They are mostly running IDE disk, and the latest +> IA-32 hardware is likely to have newer faster interface options. + +Neither are ours ... we bought an array of 1U Netras as a dot-com closeout. +At $330 per machine including OS, they were a darned good deal, and with 4 of +them the redundancy makes up for the lack of individual server performance. + +-- +Josh Berkus +Aglio Database Solutions +San Francisco + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 18:51:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2034BD1B8B9 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:45:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 48147-05 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:45:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029B7D1B8AC + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:45:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 6464BD625; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:45:25 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 3FD9F5C0A; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:45:25 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:45:25 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: pginfo +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: bad join performance +In-Reply-To: <3F40E9A9.12AE5D55@t1.unisoftbg.com> +Message-ID: <20030818104119.C30675-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/289 +X-Sequence-Number: 3105 + + +On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, pginfo wrote: + +> Hi , +> I am using pg 7.3.3 on RH 7.3, +> dual Athlon +> 1 GB RAM. +> +> I have 2 tables a_acc and a_vid_doc (all PK are int). +> +> sizes: +> +> select count(IDS) from a_acc; +> count +> --------- +> 1006772 +> +> select count(IDS) from a_vid_doc; +> count +> ------- +> 25 +> +> I have problem with the join ot this tables. +> I tryed this examples: +> +> explain analyze select G.IDS from A_ACC G join A_VID_DOC VD +> ON(G.IDS_VID_DOC=VD.IDS) WHERE G.IDS = 1338673 ; + +In general the best index on A_ACC for this kind of query might +be on on A_ACC(IDS, IDS_VID_DOC). That should allow you to search +by IDS value but still get a sorted order of IDS_VID_DOC to help +the join. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 17:49:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54552D1B8AB + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:40:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58210-05 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:40:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35639D1B56C + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:40:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7IIeL5H028776; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:40:21 -0400 (EDT) +To: pginfo +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: bad join performance +In-reply-to: <3F40E9A9.12AE5D55@t1.unisoftbg.com> +References: <3F40E9A9.12AE5D55@t1.unisoftbg.com> +Comments: In-reply-to pginfo + message dated "Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:58:49 +0200" +Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:40:21 -0400 +Message-ID: <28775.1061232021@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/288 +X-Sequence-Number: 3104 + +pginfo writes: +> I am using pg 7.3.3 on RH 7.3, + +Are you certain the server is 7.3.3? This looks like a mergejoin +estimation bug that was present in 7.3 and 7.3.1, but should be fixed +in 7.3.2 and later. + +If it is 7.3.3, I'd like to see the pg_stats rows for +a_acc.ids_vid_doc and a_vid_doc.ids. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 18 19:17:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889D8D1B89E + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 19:17:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 90130-07 + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 19:17:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fuji.krosing.net (unknown [194.204.44.104]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56FC8D1B56B + for ; + Mon, 18 Aug 2003 19:17:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fuji.krosing.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by fuji.krosing.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7IMHBsQ004554; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:17:12 +0300 +Received: (from hannu@localhost) + by fuji.krosing.net (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h7IMGw3D004552; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:16:58 +0300 +X-Authentication-Warning: fuji.krosing.net: hannu set sender to hannu@tm.ee + using -f +Subject: Re: Insert performance +From: Hannu Krosing +To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <3F4145EB.20645.B5452D9@localhost> +References: <3F40BDC4.1605.9407ADF@localhost> + <3F4145EB.20645.B5452D9@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-Id: <1061245017.2620.14.camel@fuji.krosing.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:16:58 +0300 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/290 +X-Sequence-Number: 3106 + +Shridhar Daithankar kirjutas E, 18.08.2003 kell 19:02: +> On 18 Aug 2003 at 18:52, Hannu Krosing wrote: +> > My own experimentation also got numbers in 9k/sec range (on a quad +> > 1.3GHz Xeons, 2GM mem, 50MB/sec raid) when doing 10-20 parallel runs of +> > ~1000 inserts/transaction. +> > +> > Performance dropped to ~300/sec (at about 60M rows) when I added an +> > index (primary key) - as I did random inserts, the hit rates for index +> > pages were probably low. +> +> I was loading a geographic data couple of months back.. It was 3GB data when +> loaded in postgresql. + +With or without indexes ? + +> I tried loading data first and creating index later. It ran out of available +> 9GB space. So I created index on an empty table and started loading it. It was +> slow but at least finished after 3 hours... Co-incidentally oracle had same +> problems as well. So creating index beforehand remains only option at times, it +> seems. Tom remarked that it shouldn't have made difference but apparently it +> does.. + +Tom just fixed some memory leaks on array indexing the other day. Could +there be something like that on geographic types ? + +> You mentioned parallel runs and still getting 9K/sec. Was that overall 9K or +> per connection? + +Overall. But notice that my setup was (a little) slower per processor. + +> If it is former, probably WAL is hit too hard. You could do +> some additional testing by having WALit's own disk. + +I guess that todays IDE disks are about the same speed (~50MB/sec) as my +test RAID was. + +I run multiple parallel runs to have a chance to use all 4 processors +(but IIRC it was heavyly IO-bound) as well as to better use writing time +on WAL platters (not to wait for full rotation on each platter) + +-------------- +Hannu + + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 19 01:22:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AA0D1B58A + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:22:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66964-01 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:22:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from unimm.unisoftbg.com (mail.unisoftbg.com [194.12.229.207]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54FB6D1B8A1 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:22:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 17746 invoked by uid 507); 19 Aug 2003 04:24:48 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO t1.unisoftbg.com) + (pginfo%t1.unisoftbg.com@194.12.229.193) + by 0 with SMTP; 19 Aug 2003 04:24:48 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F419680.B70BDA19@t1.unisoftbg.com> +Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 05:16:16 +0200 +From: pginfo +X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tom Lane +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: bad join performance +References: <3F40E9A9.12AE5D55@t1.unisoftbg.com> + <28775.1061232021@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/291 +X-Sequence-Number: 3107 + +Hi tom, +sorry for my bad. +My production server is 7.3.7, but the development is 7.3.1 and I ran the +tests on 7.3.1. + +It is courios that on 7.3.1 the query is not constantly bad. +>From time to time it is running well. + +regards, +ivan. +Tom Lane wrote: + +> pginfo writes: +> > I am using pg 7.3.3 on RH 7.3, +> +> Are you certain the server is 7.3.3? This looks like a mergejoin +> estimation bug that was present in 7.3 and 7.3.1, but should be fixed +> in 7.3.2 and later. +> +> If it is 7.3.3, I'd like to see the pg_stats rows for +> a_acc.ids_vid_doc and a_vid_doc.ids. +> +> regards, tom lane +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 19 01:32:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8F9D1B8A1 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:32:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 54498-09 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:31:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from unimm.unisoftbg.com (mail.unisoftbg.com [194.12.229.207]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D4CD1B539 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:31:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 17888 invoked by uid 507); 19 Aug 2003 04:34:14 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO t1.unisoftbg.com) + (pginfo%t1.unisoftbg.com@194.12.229.193) + by 0 with SMTP; 19 Aug 2003 04:34:14 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4198B6.7A24F36F@t1.unisoftbg.com> +Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 05:25:42 +0200 +From: pginfo +X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tom Lane +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: bad join performance +References: <3F40E9A9.12AE5D55@t1.unisoftbg.com> + <28775.1061232021@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <3F419680.B70BDA19@t1.unisoftbg.com> + <19949.1061267078@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/293 +X-Sequence-Number: 3109 + +Ok, +thanks for the help +and best regards. +ivan. + +Tom Lane wrote: + +> pginfo writes: +> > sorry for my bad. +> > My production server is 7.3.7, but the development is 7.3.1 and I ran the +> > tests on 7.3.1. +> +> > It is courios that on 7.3.1 the query is not constantly bad. +> > From time to time it is running well. +> +> Yeah, the mergejoin estimation bug doesn't bite in every case (if it +> did, we'd have found it before release ;-)). Please update to 7.3.4. +> +> regards, tom lane + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 19 01:24:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06298D1B8B5 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:24:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66220-03 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:24:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C14AD1B89E + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:24:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7J4Oc5H019950; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 00:24:38 -0400 (EDT) +To: pginfo +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: bad join performance +In-reply-to: <3F419680.B70BDA19@t1.unisoftbg.com> +References: <3F40E9A9.12AE5D55@t1.unisoftbg.com> + <28775.1061232021@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <3F419680.B70BDA19@t1.unisoftbg.com> +Comments: In-reply-to pginfo + message dated "Tue, 19 Aug 2003 05:16:16 +0200" +Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 00:24:38 -0400 +Message-ID: <19949.1061267078@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/292 +X-Sequence-Number: 3108 + +pginfo writes: +> sorry for my bad. +> My production server is 7.3.7, but the development is 7.3.1 and I ran the +> tests on 7.3.1. + +> It is courios that on 7.3.1 the query is not constantly bad. +> From time to time it is running well. + +Yeah, the mergejoin estimation bug doesn't bite in every case (if it +did, we'd have found it before release ;-)). Please update to 7.3.4. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 19 03:27:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6003D1B56B + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:27:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80698-05 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:26:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D19D1B8B2 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:26:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7J6V1IP009825 + for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:01:01 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7J6V13g009804 + for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:01:01 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:58:45 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Insert performance +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4210F5.12800.E6D73AE@localhost> +In-reply-to: <200308180957.59891.josh@agliodbs.com> +References: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/294 +X-Sequence-Number: 3110 + +On 18 Aug 2003 at 9:57, Josh Berkus wrote: + +> Chris, +> +> > My expectations of a Netra wouldn't be terribly high, either; they +> > seem to exist as a product so that people that need a cheap Sun box +> > have an option. They are mostly running IDE disk, and the latest +> > IA-32 hardware is likely to have newer faster interface options. +> +> Neither are ours ... we bought an array of 1U Netras as a dot-com closeout. +> At $330 per machine including OS, they were a darned good deal, and with 4 of +> them the redundancy makes up for the lack of individual server performance. + +I am sure they would run much better with linux on them rather than solaris.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Shannon's Observation: Nothing is so frustrating as a bad situation that is +beginning to improve. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 19 03:31:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CF37D1B56C + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:31:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 88479-01 + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:31:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07ECDD1B56B + for ; + Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:31:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7J6Zg8L011862 + for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:05:42 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7J6Zf3g011845 + for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:05:41 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:03:26 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Insert performance +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F42120E.28901.E71BBDF@localhost> +In-reply-to: <1061245017.2620.14.camel@fuji.krosing.net> +References: <3F4145EB.20645.B5452D9@localhost> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/295 +X-Sequence-Number: 3111 + +On 19 Aug 2003 at 1:16, Hannu Krosing wrote: + +> Shridhar Daithankar kirjutas E, 18.08.2003 kell 19:02: +> > I was loading a geographic data couple of months back.. It was 3GB data when +> > loaded in postgresql. +> +> With or without indexes ? + +Without index. Index was another 3 GB with 50% utilisation. It was 81M rows +with 3 floats each.. + +> +> > I tried loading data first and creating index later. It ran out of available +> > 9GB space. So I created index on an empty table and started loading it. It was +> > slow but at least finished after 3 hours... Co-incidentally oracle had same +> > problems as well. So creating index beforehand remains only option at times, it +> > seems. Tom remarked that it shouldn't have made difference but apparently it +> > does.. +> +> Tom just fixed some memory leaks on array indexing the other day. Could +> there be something like that on geographic types ? + +Dunno.. This was 7.3.2 or earlier.. Later the project abandoned all types of +databases and went to in memory structures since flat data was of the order of +200MB. Now they aer returning to databases as flat data is approaching excess +of 3 GB.. + +God knows what will they do next. It's an ideal example what schedule pressure +can do to architecture design of a software.. + + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Air Force Inertia Axiom: Consistency is always easier to defend than correctness. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 20 07:04:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCEED1BB80 + for ; + Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:04:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 92104-08 + for ; + Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:03:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from Tiger.server100.com (unknown [207.44.158.4]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4695D1B8BB + for ; + Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:03:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [195.13.175.104] (helo=Xeon) + by Tiger.server100.com with asmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19pPos-00061R-Vj + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:03:59 -0500 +Message-ID: <004201c36701$fffee930$1401010a@Xeon> +Reply-To: +From: +To: +Subject: When NOT to index small tables? +Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:01:16 +0300 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-4" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 +X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, + please include it with any abuse report +X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - Tiger.server100.com +X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - postgresql.org +X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] +X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - piladzi-2.biz +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_30, + NO_REAL_NAME, RCVD_IN_RFCI +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Archive-Number: 200308/296 +X-Sequence-Number: 3112 + +I have found many reasons not to index small tables (see . +But I still have questions. + +1. How small is small enough? +2. am I supposed to drop primary key index on so called 'label tables' +knowing I am using this pk in join clause? +3. Is it good to drop index on small table If I know I have created VIEW and +joined large table and the small one +and I have where condition on that particular colum? +Ilustrative example: +table small +{ +id -- primary key +colum_for_where_condition -- index or not to index? +} +table large +{ +... +fk_for_small_table -- indexed +... +} +create view as select ..... +inner join on common_column .. +I have migrated from mysql . +I have found that complex view expression takes about 10 sec using ordinary +planner, +but genetic alg takes about 5 sec. Strange? +I can give details if someone is interested. + +Regards, +Alvis + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 20 10:31:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F159D1BAA3 + for ; + Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:30:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 50055-10 + for ; + Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:30:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B0EBD1B92B + for ; + Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:30:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 6720 invoked by uid 500); 20 Aug 2003 13:36:24 -0000 +Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:36:24 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: alvis@piladzi-2.biz +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: When NOT to index small tables? +Message-ID: <20030820133624.GB5221@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: alvis@piladzi-2.biz, + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <004201c36701$fffee930$1401010a@Xeon> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <004201c36701$fffee930$1401010a@Xeon> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/297 +X-Sequence-Number: 3113 + +On Wed, Aug 20, 2003 at 13:01:16 +0300, + alvis@piladzi-2.biz wrote: +> I have found many reasons not to index small tables (see . +> But I still have questions. +> +> 1. How small is small enough? + +Unless you think maintaining the indexes is a significant overhead, you +shouldn't worry about it as the planner will choose whether or not to +use them according to what it thinks is faster. + +> 2. am I supposed to drop primary key index on so called 'label tables' +> knowing I am using this pk in join clause? + +I don't think you want to drop any indexes that are used to enforce +constraints. + +> 3. Is it good to drop index on small table If I know I have created VIEW and +> joined large table and the small one +> and I have where condition on that particular colum? + +If you have some other reason for creating the index, you probably don't +want to drop it to try to speed up queries. If there isn't some reason you +have for keeping the index, then you might want to drop it if it isn't +helping your queries as maintaining the index will slow down queries +that modify the table. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 08:54:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F49D1BB23 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:54:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80772-02 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:53:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [202.181.234.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FF3D1BB0B + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:53:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mktam ([202.181.183.119]) + by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.9.3) with SMTP id h7LBkjv03380 + for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:46:46 +0800 +Message-ID: <00d001c367db$54c98ea0$1400a8c0@DIGITALONE> +From: "Tam MK" +To: +Subject: More connections in Solaris9 +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:56:57 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="big5" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests= +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/298 +X-Sequence-Number: 3114 + +I try to increase my no. of connections of the Postmaster in my client's +Solaris9 box but fails: + +When startup using bin/postmaster -N 300 -B 2000 -D /export/data, I got the +message: + +IpcSemaphoreCreate: semget(key=5432004, num=17, 03600) failed: No space left +on device + +This error does *not* mean that you have run out of disk space. + +It occurs either because system limit for the maximum number of +semaphore sets (SEMMNI), or the system wide maximum number of +semaphores (SEMMNS), would be exceeded. You need to raise the +respective kernel parameter. Look into the PostgreSQL documentation +for details. + +So what should I set for SEMMNI and SEMMNS? Any suggestion? + +The /etc/system file (partial) is set with the following: + +set shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=0x7fffffff + +set rlim_fd_max=8192 +set rlim_fd_cur=4096 + +Regards, +Tam MK + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 10:37:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE09D1DB70 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:36:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 13918-09 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:36:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from www.postgresql.com (www.postgresql.com [64.117.225.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4B2D1BB3A + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:35:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from nebula.skynet.be (nebula.skynet.be [195.238.2.112]) + by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78331CF499B + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:35:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pleyel.kotnet.org (157.77-200-80.adsl.skynet.be + [80.200.77.157]) + by nebula.skynet.be (8.12.9/8.12.9/Skynet-OUT-2.21) with ESMTP id + h7LDZWPF017160 + for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:35:32 +0200 + (envelope-from ) +Received: from slicks by pleyel.kotnet.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) + id 19ppbG-0001QM-00 + for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:35:38 +0200 +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:35:38 +0200 +From: Mathieu De Zutter +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Sorting a query on a view ignores an index +Message-ID: <20030821133538.GA973@pleyel.kotnet.org> +Reply-To: Mathieu De Zutter +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/299 +X-Sequence-Number: 3115 + +Hi, + +I'm having a performance problem in postgresql. + +I have a rather complex view (attached) which, on itself, executes very +fast, as it should. Normally this view is unordered. When I order the +view itself (see comments in attachment), the view executes with about +the same speed since the field i'm sorting on has an index. +However, i dont want the view to be presorted, but sort it in the +queries that use the view. When I do that, the index I have on that +field seems to be ignored. It stretches so far that, when I sort the +view on A and sort the query on A too, the query will try to sort +_again_ _without_ index and thus lose all performance. + +I've attached the query-plans for the different cases. +preordered: means the view itself is sorted +with/without sorting: tells whether the query is sorted + +Note: the "NOT NULL" in the queries doesn't affect performance + +With kind regards, + + Mathieu + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 11:07:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D54D1B9AC + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:06:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 19941-08 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:06:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ferengi.skynet.be (ferengi.skynet.be [195.238.2.126]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E504D1BB22 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:06:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pleyel.kotnet.org (157.77-200-80.adsl.skynet.be + [80.200.77.157]) + by ferengi.skynet.be (8.12.9/8.12.9/Skynet-OUT-2.21) with ESMTP id + h7LE6YPl011073 + for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:06:35 +0200 + (envelope-from ) +Received: from slicks by pleyel.kotnet.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) + id 19pq5I-0001hA-00 + for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:06:40 +0200 +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:06:40 +0200 +From: Mathieu De Zutter +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: A better look on the same problem (ignored index) +Message-ID: <20030821140640.GB973@pleyel.kotnet.org> +Reply-To: Mathieu De Zutter +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v" +Content-Disposition: inline +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/300 +X-Sequence-Number: 3116 + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline + +Hi, + +After my first mail, I found a better testcase (well it's a about the +same, but you have a better look to compare). +See attachment prob-query.sql + +The ORDER BY in the FROM clause uses the index. +The last ORDER BY does not use the index. +They should be the same... + +The query plans are identical to the plans in my previous mail. + +With kind regards, + + Mathieu + +P.S.: i just noted that i forgot to attach to previous mail, i'll +attach everything now. + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="prob_query.sql" + +SELECT v.id , v.title, v.artist, v.music, v.lyrics, v.year +FROM +( SELECT + href('song', r.id, r.title) AS title, r.title AS search_title, + + ( SELECT br(href('artist', a.id, a.name)) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 0) + ) AS artist, + + ( SELECT comma(a.name) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 0) + ) AS search_artist, + + ( SELECT br(href('artist', a.id, a.name)) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 1) + ) AS music, + + ( SELECT comma(a.name) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 1) + ) AS search_music, + + ( SELECT br(href('artist', a.id, a.name)) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 2) + ) AS lyrics, + + ( SELECT comma(a.name) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 2) + ) AS search_lyrics, + + r.year AS year, + r.year AS search_year, + + r.id AS id + + FROM song r + ORDER BY search_title +) AS v +ORDER BY v.search_title +LIMIT 20 OFFSET 0 ; + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename="presorted-query-plan-without-sorting.sql" + +coverdb=# explain analyze SELECT id , title, artist, music, lyrics, year FROM search_song WHERE search_title IS NOT NULL LIMIT 20 OFFSET 0 ; + QUERY PLAN +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Limit (cost=0.00..1.18 rows=20 width=28) (actual time=0.47..9.57 rows=20 loops=1) + -> Subquery Scan search_song (cost=0.00..390.11 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=0.47..9.54 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using song_title_idx on song r (cost=0.00..390.11 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=0.47..9.47 rows=21 loops=1) + Filter: (title IS NOT NULL) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=8.14..8.14 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.24..0.24 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.13 rows=2 width=25) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=2 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 0) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=8.14..8.14 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.13 rows=2 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=2 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 0) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.74..6.74 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.74 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 1) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=15) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.74..6.74 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.74 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 1) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=15) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.62..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 2) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=15) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.62..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 2) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=15) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + Total runtime: 9.98 msec +(48 rows) + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename="presorted-query-plan-with-sorting.sql" + +coverdb=# explain analyze SELECT id , title, artist, music, lyrics, year FROM search_song WHERE search_title IS NOT NULL ORDER BY search_title LIMIT 20 OFFSET 0 ; + QUERY PLAN +----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Limit (cost=808.33..808.38 rows=20 width=28) (actual time=2276.68..2276.70 rows=20 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=808.33..824.81 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=2276.67..2276.68 rows=21 loops=1) + Sort Key: search_title + -> Subquery Scan search_song (cost=0.00..390.11 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=0.47..2231.64 rows=6380 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using song_title_idx on song r (cost=0.00..390.11 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=0.47..2202.12 rows=6380 loops=1) + Filter: (title IS NOT NULL) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=8.14..8.14 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.07..0.07 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.13 rows=2 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=2 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 0) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=1 loops=6341) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=8.14..8.14 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.05..0.05 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.13 rows=2 width=25) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=2 width=4) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 0) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=6341) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.74..6.74 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.06..0.06 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.74 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 1) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=4497) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.74..6.74 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.74 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 1) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=4497) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.62..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.05..0.05 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 2) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=4463) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.62..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 2) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=4463) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + Total runtime: 2278.43 msec +(50 rows) + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="query-plan-without-sorting.sql" + +coverdb=# explain analyze SELECT id , title, artist, music, lyrics, year FROM search_song WHERE search_title IS NOT NULL LIMIT 20 OFFSET 0 ; + QUERY PLAN +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Limit (cost=0.00..0.41 rows=20 width=28) (actual time=1.52..6.54 rows=20 loops=1) + -> Subquery Scan search_song (cost=0.00..134.93 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=1.52..6.53 rows=21 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on song r (cost=0.00..134.93 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=1.51..6.45 rows=21 loops=1) + Filter: (title IS NOT NULL) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=8.14..8.14 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.07..0.07 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.14 rows=2 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=2 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 0) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=8.14..8.14 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.14 rows=2 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=2 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 0) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.35..6.35 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.35 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 1) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=15) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.35..6.35 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.35 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 1) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=15) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.45..6.45 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.45 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 2) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=14) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.45..6.45 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.45 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=21) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=21) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 2) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=14) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + Total runtime: 7.23 msec +(48 rows) + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="query-plan-with-sorting.sql" + +coverdb=# explain analyze SELECT id , title, artist, music, lyrics, year FROM search_song WHERE search_title IS NOT NULL ORDER BY search_title LIMIT 20 OFFSET 0 ; + QUERY PLAN +----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Limit (cost=553.15..553.20 rows=20 width=28) (actual time=2227.78..2227.80 rows=20 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=553.15..569.63 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=2227.78..2227.78 rows=21 loops=1) + Sort Key: search_title + -> Subquery Scan search_song (cost=0.00..134.93 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=1.09..2153.71 rows=6380 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on song r (cost=0.00..134.93 rows=6593 width=28) (actual time=1.09..2125.37 rows=6380 loops=1) + Filter: (title IS NOT NULL) + SubPlan + -> Aggregate (cost=8.10..8.10 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.06..0.06 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.09 rows=2 width=25) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=2 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 0) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=6341) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=8.10..8.10 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.05..0.05 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..8.09 rows=2 width=25) (actual time=0.03..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=2 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 0) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=6341) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.62..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.05..0.05 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 1) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=4497) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.62..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.62 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.02..0.03 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 1) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=4497) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.76..6.76 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.05..0.05 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.76 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 2) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=4463) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + -> Aggregate (cost=6.76..6.76 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..6.76 rows=1 width=25) (actual time=0.01..0.02 rows=1 loops=6380) + -> Index Scan using credit_song_idx on credit c (cost=0.00..3.08 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=6380) + Index Cond: (song_id = $0) + Filter: (type_id = 2) + -> Index Scan using artist_pkey on artist a (cost=0.00..3.02 rows=1 width=21) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=4463) + Index Cond: ("outer".artist_id = a.id) + Total runtime: 2229.73 msec +(50 rows) + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="query.sql" + +-- with sorting +SELECT id , title, artist, music, lyrics, year FROM search_song WHERE search_title IS NOT NULL ORDER BY search_title LIMIT 20 OFFSET 0 ; + +-- without sorting +SELECT id , title, artist, music, lyrics, year FROM search_song WHERE search_title IS NOT NULL LIMIT 20 OFFSET 0 ; + + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="view.sql" + +CREATE VIEW search_song AS + SELECT + href('song', r.id, r.title) AS title, r.title AS search_title, + + ( SELECT br(href('artist', a.id, a.name)) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 0) + ) AS artist, + + ( SELECT comma(a.name) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 0) + ) AS search_artist, + + ( SELECT br(href('artist', a.id, a.name)) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 1) + ) AS music, + + ( SELECT comma(a.name) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 1) + ) AS search_music, + + ( SELECT br(href('artist', a.id, a.name)) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 2) + ) AS lyrics, + + ( SELECT comma(a.name) + FROM credit c + JOIN artist a ON (c.artist_id = a.id) + WHERE (c.song_id = r.id AND c.type_id = 2) + ) AS search_lyrics, + + r.year AS year, + r.year AS search_year, + + --href('album', alb.id, alb.title) AS album, + --alb.title AS search_album, + + r.id AS id + + FROM song r + --LEFT JOIN album alb ON (r.album_id = alb.id) + -- Uncomment next line for 'presorted' + -- ORDER BY search_title + ; + +--Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 11:51:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2F90D1BAE7 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:51:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 34317-10 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:51:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B7A2D1BB3F + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:51:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7LEpGi15020 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:51:16 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7LEpGV15016 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:51:16 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 556FA6FCCD; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:51:05 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2067F6E6 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:51:05 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:51:05 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: +Subject: Tests +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/301 +X-Sequence-Number: 3117 + +http://195.199.65.92/~horvaths/pgperformance.html + +One of my friend do these tests. We think about the best filesystem for +the Linux/Postgres systems. + +The four test was: + +teszt1 - 10.000 inserts +teszt2 - 10.inserts, 10 in one trans. +teszt3 - 14.000.000 inserts, 1.000 in one trans. +teszt4 - "Select count(*)" on the big table. + +What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy has time +for other test. + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 11:59:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B85D1BB27 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:59:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37182-01 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:59:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ACEFD1B8C8 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:59:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7LExC5H008510; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:59:12 -0400 (EDT) +To: Mathieu De Zutter +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Sorting a query on a view ignores an index +In-reply-to: <20030821133538.GA973@pleyel.kotnet.org> +References: <20030821133538.GA973@pleyel.kotnet.org> +Comments: In-reply-to Mathieu De Zutter + message dated "Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:35:38 +0200" +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:59:11 -0400 +Message-ID: <8509.1061477951@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/303 +X-Sequence-Number: 3119 + +Mathieu De Zutter writes: +> However, i dont want the view to be presorted, but sort it in the +> queries that use the view. When I do that, the index I have on that +> field seems to be ignored. It stretches so far that, when I sort the +> view on A and sort the query on A too, the query will try to sort +> _again_ _without_ index and thus lose all performance. + +This is a limitation of the 7.3 query planner. 7.4 should do better. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 11:57:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2057CD1BB3E + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:57:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 36073-10 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:57:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4221FD1BB56 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:57:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7LF03fQ026656 + for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:30:03 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7LF03Qb026642 + for ; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:30:03 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:29:20 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Tests +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F452BA0.8319.16A36CE@localhost> +In-reply-to: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/302 +X-Sequence-Number: 3118 + +On 21 Aug 2003 at 16:51, Tomka Gergely wrote: + +> http://195.199.65.92/~horvaths/pgperformance.html +> +> One of my friend do these tests. We think about the best filesystem for +> the Linux/Postgres systems. +> +> The four test was: +> +> teszt1 - 10.000 inserts +> teszt2 - 10.inserts, 10 in one trans. +> teszt3 - 14.000.000 inserts, 1.000 in one trans. +> teszt4 - "Select count(*)" on the big table. +> +> What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy has time +> for other test. + +- Try creating table without OIDs and repeat runs +- Try changing number of inserts per transactions. + +I tried similar test on my home machine last week. It gave me 500K records in +about 54 seconds on 7.3.3. That translates to roughly 3 minutes for 1.4M +records. You sure something isn't right here? + +What is the hardware? Can you try it with 7.4CVS? + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +XIIdigitation, n.: The practice of trying to determine the year a movie was +made by deciphering the Roman numerals at the end of the credits. -- Rich +Hall, "Sniglets" + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 13:25:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96E9D1B93F + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:25:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 67704-01 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:25:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from www.postgresql.com (www.postgresql.com [64.117.225.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B520D1B921 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:25:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sojef.skynet.be (sojef.skynet.be [195.238.2.127]) + by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8C2CF4BC8 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:25:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pleyel.kotnet.org (157.77-200-80.adsl.skynet.be + [80.200.77.157]) + by sojef.skynet.be (8.12.9/8.12.9/Skynet-OUT-2.21) with ESMTP id + h7LGOgdu007480; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:24:42 +0200 + (envelope-from ) +Received: from slicks by pleyel.kotnet.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) + id 19psEy-0002ha-00; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:24:48 +0200 +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:24:48 +0200 +From: Mathieu De Zutter +To: Tom Lane +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Sorting a query on a view ignores an index +Message-ID: <20030821162448.GC973@pleyel.kotnet.org> +Reply-To: Mathieu De Zutter +References: <20030821133538.GA973@pleyel.kotnet.org> + <8509.1061477951@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <8509.1061477951@sss.pgh.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/304 +X-Sequence-Number: 3120 + +On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 10:59:11AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: +> Mathieu De Zutter writes: +> > However, i dont want the view to be presorted, but sort it in the +> > queries that use the view. When I do that, the index I have on that +> > field seems to be ignored. It stretches so far that, when I sort the +> > view on A and sort the query on A too, the query will try to sort +> > _again_ _without_ index and thus lose all performance. +> +> This is a limitation of the 7.3 query planner. 7.4 should do better. + +Ok I'll have to live with that I guess. +Apart from avoiding views or subselects when sorting afterwards and +putting the whole bunch in a huge SQL statement (which i'll have to +produce on-the-fly), do you have an other alternative? +The 2 seconds is way to much, as the database will eventually run on a +machine that is 10 times slower. + +With kind regards, + + Mathieu + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 13:28:48 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6A8D1B99D + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:28:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 67430-03 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:28:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta7.adelphia.net (mta7.adelphia.net [68.168.78.193]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2C6D1B94A + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:27:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta7.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030821162743.KFOO1349.mta7.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:27:43 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F44F2FD.3080903@potentialtech.com> +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:27:41 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tomka Gergely +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Tests +References: +In-Reply-To: +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/305 +X-Sequence-Number: 3121 + +Tomka Gergely wrote: +> http://195.199.65.92/~horvaths/pgperformance.html +> +> One of my friend do these tests. We think about the best filesystem for +> the Linux/Postgres systems. +> +> The four test was: +> +> teszt1 - 10.000 inserts +> teszt2 - 10.inserts, 10 in one trans. +> teszt3 - 14.000.000 inserts, 1.000 in one trans. +> teszt4 - "Select count(*)" on the big table. +> +> What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy has time +> for other test. + +It's a shame you didn't test ufs+softupdates. I'd be curious to see how +it stacked up against the others. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 14:03:10 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A601BD1B9AC + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:03:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 73059-10 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:02:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04849D1B975 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:02:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7LH285H014118; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:02:08 -0400 (EDT) +To: Mathieu De Zutter +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Sorting a query on a view ignores an index +In-reply-to: <20030821162448.GC973@pleyel.kotnet.org> +References: <20030821133538.GA973@pleyel.kotnet.org> + <8509.1061477951@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030821162448.GC973@pleyel.kotnet.org> +Comments: In-reply-to Mathieu De Zutter + message dated "Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:24:48 +0200" +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:02:08 -0400 +Message-ID: <14117.1061485328@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/306 +X-Sequence-Number: 3122 + +Mathieu De Zutter writes: +> Apart from avoiding views or subselects when sorting afterwards and +> putting the whole bunch in a huge SQL statement (which i'll have to +> produce on-the-fly), do you have an other alternative? + +See if you can avoid the subselects in the view's SELECT list. That's +what's preventing 7.3 from doing a good job. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 14:56:19 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B580D1B926 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:56:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 90003-08 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:55:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B525CD1B8B7 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:55:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7LHtTi25439 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:55:30 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7LHtTV25435; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:55:29 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 9096E6FCCD; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:55:18 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 85D9F7F6E6; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:55:18 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:55:18 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: Bill Moran +Cc: +Subject: Re: Tests +In-Reply-To: <3F44F2FD.3080903@potentialtech.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/307 +X-Sequence-Number: 3123 + +2003-08-21 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Bill Moran ezt =FCzente: + +> Tomka Gergely wrote: +> > http://195.199.65.92/~horvaths/pgperformance.html +> > +> > One of my friend do these tests. We think about the best filesystem for +> > the Linux/Postgres systems. +> > +> > The four test was: +> > +> > teszt1 - 10.000 inserts +> > teszt2 - 10.inserts, 10 in one trans. +> > teszt3 - 14.000.000 inserts, 1.000 in one trans. +> > teszt4 - "Select count(*)" on the big table. +> > +> > What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy has ti= +me +> > for other test. +> +> It's a shame you didn't test ufs+softupdates. I'd be curious to see how +> it stacked up against the others. + +Shame? I smell here a harcore BSD fighter :) Maybe sometime he run +tests on *SD, but now we need linux data. + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 15:17:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75655D1B926 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:17:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01367-04 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:17:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta8.adelphia.net (mta8.adelphia.net [68.168.78.196]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3850D1B8B6 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:17:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta8.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030821181701.QYKZ1354.mta8.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:17:01 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F450C9B.6000201@potentialtech.com> +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:16:59 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tomka Gergely +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Tests +References: +In-Reply-To: +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/308 +X-Sequence-Number: 3124 + +Tomka Gergely wrote: +> 2003-08-21 ragyog� napj�n Bill Moran ezt �zente: +> +> +>>Tomka Gergely wrote: +>> +>>>http://195.199.65.92/~horvaths/pgperformance.html +>>> +>>>One of my friend do these tests. We think about the best filesystem for +>>>the Linux/Postgres systems. +>>> +>>>The four test was: +>>> +>>>teszt1 - 10.000 inserts +>>>teszt2 - 10.inserts, 10 in one trans. +>>>teszt3 - 14.000.000 inserts, 1.000 in one trans. +>>>teszt4 - "Select count(*)" on the big table. +>>> +>>>What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy has time +>>>for other test. +>> +>>It's a shame you didn't test ufs+softupdates. I'd be curious to see how +>>it stacked up against the others. +> +> Shame? I smell here a harcore BSD fighter :) + +Well, I suppose ... + +> Maybe sometime he run +> tests on *SD, but now we need linux data. + +"He" has had it on his list of things to do for months. + +And if I ever get enough free moments, I will test *both* BSD and Linux, +because I'm terribly biased towards BSD because that's all I use. +In addition to being interested in how FreeBSD's ufs+softupdates compares +to the variety of Linux journalling filesystems, I'm also interested to +compare FreeBSD's performance on ext2fs and FAT to Linux's peformance on +those same filesystems. + +It's a "shame" because I simply haven't found the time yet. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 17:12:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4938D1B94A + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:12:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37738-01 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:12:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from viper.rx2.net (viper.rx2.net [66.78.14.162]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315A4D1B8A3 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:12:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from cbbrowne by viper.rx2.net with local (Exim 4.20) + id 19pvmT-0003kE-Dw; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:11:37 -0400 +From: "Your Name" +To: Mathieu De Zutter , + Tom Lane , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Sorting a query on a view ignores an index +X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25 +X-IPAddress: 207.136.25.10 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +Message-Id: +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:11:37 -0400 +X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, + please include it with any abuse report +X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - viper.rx2.net +X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - postgresql.org +X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32025 32023] / [47 12] +X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - viper.rx2.net +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/309 +X-Sequence-Number: 3125 + +> Apart from avoiding views or subselects when sorting afterwards and +> putting the whole bunch in a huge SQL statement (which i'll have to +> produce on-the-fly), do you have an other alternative? +> The 2 seconds is way to much, as the database will eventually run on a +> machine that is 10 times slower. + +Something that isn't _totally_ clear is whether or not it is going to +be possible to make use of indices in the selection. If the postmaster +must assemble, out of disparate sources, a large collection of data, +the best trade-off may very well be to build the collection the best +way the system knows how (perhaps NOT ordering this using the index you +expect), and sort it afterwards. + +Sorting doesn't tend to be grieviously expensive except when finding +the query results is also grieviously expensive. + +I think you are assuming that the query would be quicker if it used the +sorted index; that is an assumption that should be checked at the door, +or at least checked somewhere. +-- +"The main difference between an amateur crypto designer and a used car +salesman is that the used car salesman can probably drive and knows +when he's lying." -- An Metet + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 21 17:57:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 880F4D1BB7D + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:57:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 46922-03 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:57:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from www.postgresql.com (www.postgresql.com [64.117.225.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E43D1B9BC + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:57:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sarek.skynet.be (sarek.skynet.be [195.238.3.230]) + by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E6ACF4C54 + for ; + Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:57:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pleyel.kotnet.org (127.78-200-80.adsl.skynet.be + [80.200.78.127]) + by sarek.skynet.be (8.12.9/8.12.9/Skynet-OUT-2.21) with ESMTP id + h7LKurC9001908; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:56:54 +0200 + (envelope-from ) +Received: from slicks by pleyel.kotnet.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) + id 19pwUN-0007zg-00; Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:56:59 +0200 +Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:56:59 +0200 +From: Mathieu De Zutter +To: Tom Lane +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Sorting a query on a view ignores an index +Message-ID: <20030821205659.GA28674@pleyel.kotnet.org> +Reply-To: Mathieu De Zutter +References: <20030821133538.GA973@pleyel.kotnet.org> + <8509.1061477951@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030821162448.GC973@pleyel.kotnet.org> + <14117.1061485328@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <14117.1061485328@sss.pgh.pa.us> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/310 +X-Sequence-Number: 3126 + +On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 01:02:08PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: +> Mathieu De Zutter writes: +> > Apart from avoiding views or subselects when sorting afterwards and +> > putting the whole bunch in a huge SQL statement (which i'll have to +> > produce on-the-fly), do you have an other alternative? +> +> See if you can avoid the subselects in the view's SELECT list. That's +> what's preventing 7.3 from doing a good job. + +First of all, I've installed 7.4beta1 and the performance is as should be +expected. Good, I'll try to convince the admin to upgrade to 7.4 when it +gets released (though that machine I will eventually have to use, runs +debian/stable atm, with pgsql 7.2). + +Second, I have tried to eliminate the subselects by (left) joining some +tables (I only kept a part of the original view to do this(1)). That made +me also add a GROUP BY clause to remove duplicates. Comparing to the +result-equivalent subselect-version, it has an enormous performance hit + +(1) I only kept one subselect and rearranged it to left join's + +Limit (cost=2169.31..2169.36 rows=20 width=140) (actual + time=526.12..526.14 rows=20 loops=1) +-> Sort (cost=2169.31..2185.79 rows=6591 width=140) (actual + time=526.11..526.12 rows=20 loops=1) + Sort Key: search_title + -> Subquery Scan search_song + (cost=1254.25..1484.93 rows=6591 width=140) + (actual time=149.29..423.16 rows=6380 loops=1) + -> GroupAggregate (cost=1254.25..1419.02 rows=6591 + width=49) (actual time=149.28..407.04 rows=6380 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=1254.25..1270.73 rows=6591 width=49) (actual + time=147.92..150.75 rows=6380 loops=1) + Sort Key: s.id, s.title, s."year" +etc... + +Running half a second. It looks like the grouping is messing it up. +No index seems to be used either? +(s.id is primary key, s.title = search_title, with index + search_title_idx) +While the subselect-version shows no sort in its plan and runs in 2msec +and shows "Index Scan using song_title_idx on song s" +(both queries are sorted on search_title) + +I'm fairly sure the two queries were written as they should. +If you want more info on how I got this result, just tell me. I think my +mail is yet long enough. + +Oh, important detail, these results are obtained with 7.4beta1, I +haven't checked it in 7.3 + +With kind regards, + + Mathieu + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 07:14:58 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393C6D1BB02 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:14:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80976-09 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:14:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from Tiger.server100.com (unknown [207.44.158.4]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E88D1BA8C + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:14:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [195.13.175.104] (helo=Xeon) + by Tiger.server100.com with asmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19q8w0-0004JY-Qo + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:14:21 -0500 +Message-ID: <001201c36895$bc9a9910$1401010a@Xeon> +Reply-To: +From: +To: +Subject: Re: Sorting a query on a view ignores an index +Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:11:19 +0300 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-4" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 +X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, + please include it with any abuse report +X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - Tiger.server100.com +X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - postgresql.org +X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] +X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - piladzi-2.biz +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_30, + NO_REAL_NAME, RCVD_IN_RFCI +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Archive-Number: 200308/311 +X-Sequence-Number: 3127 + + +Hello, + +Here is my exp. regarding VIEW (create VIEW view_name AS SELECT ....) +optimization. +I have found strange (or at least not very intelligent) behavior of query +planner (v.7.3.4). +Given task is to take data from 14 tables, join, group, sort, etc. I +currently use about ten views referencing each other. + +I have done a lot of job to adjust 'postgresql.conf' configuration. +Except common increase of shared_mem&buffer stuff I felt I was unable to do +anything else. +So, initialy, time to generate the Monthly report was about 10 sec. +I started to play with GEQO.... +Screaming success -- I downplayed query execution time about 3x JUST by +setting geqo_threshold=3. +Now my Monthly report takes about 3 sec. +(Users are running that sequence of select queries (I call it invocation of +the final view ;-) quite often for any given period of time -- + usually from one week to half a year (rarely) so it is essential part of my +dbvs. + +Maybe my exp. will encourage somebody to play with scary genetic stuff. ;-) + +Good luck & Best Regards, +Alvis + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 17:47:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799CCD1BB37 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:47:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 57614-05 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:47:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [65.217.53.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AEBD1BA75 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:47:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from thorn.mmrd.com (thorn.mmrd.com [172.25.10.100]) + by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7MJX1qd012578; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:33:02 -0400 +Received: from gnvex001.mmrd.com (gnvex001.mmrd.com [192.168.3.55]) + by thorn.mmrd.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7MKlkZ16093; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:47:46 -0400 +Received: from camel.mmrd.com ([172.25.5.213]) by gnvex001.mmrd.com with SMTP + (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) + id Q65S2G55; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:47:44 -0400 +Subject: Re: Tests +From: Robert Treat +To: Bill Moran +Cc: Tomka Gergely , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <3F450C9B.6000201@potentialtech.com> +References: + <3F450C9B.6000201@potentialtech.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 +Date: 22 Aug 2003 16:47:45 -0400 +Message-Id: <1061585266.3389.194.camel@camel> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/312 +X-Sequence-Number: 3128 + +On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 14:16, Bill Moran wrote: +> >>>What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy has time +> >>>for other test. +> >> +> >>It's a shame you didn't test ufs+softupdates. I'd be curious to see how +> >>it stacked up against the others. +> > +> > Shame? I smell here a harcore BSD fighter :) +> +> Well, I suppose ... +> + +Well I'm not a hardcore bsd fighter and I'd like to see how it stacks up +as well. UFS+softupdates is supposed to be a very safe combination, if +it performs well enough I could see a recommendation for it for those +who are willing to look beyond linux. + +Robert Treat +-- +Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 17:54:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7499D1BB22 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:54:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 59667-01 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:54:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0908DD1BA95 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:54:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7MKsHi22998 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:54:17 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7MKsGV22994; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:54:17 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 0CBB56FCCA; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:54:06 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 034237F6E7; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:54:06 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:54:05 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: Robert Treat +Cc: Bill Moran , +Subject: Re: Tests +In-Reply-To: <1061585266.3389.194.camel@camel> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/313 +X-Sequence-Number: 3129 + +2003-08-22 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Robert Treat ezt =FCzente: + +> On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 14:16, Bill Moran wrote: +> > >>>What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy has= + time +> > >>>for other test. +> > >> +> > >>It's a shame you didn't test ufs+softupdates. I'd be curious to see = +how +> > >>it stacked up against the others. +> > > +> > > Shame? I smell here a harcore BSD fighter :) +> > +> > Well, I suppose ... +> > +> +> Well I'm not a hardcore bsd fighter and I'd like to see how it stacks up +> as well. UFS+softupdates is supposed to be a very safe combination, if +> it performs well enough I could see a recommendation for it for those +> who are willing to look beyond linux. + +The guy who do the test have only a few weeks *bsd-experience, and i dont +have bsd experience at all. The guy now planning tests on BSD, but he +need some time to build up a good relationship with the *BSD. + +Ps.: i am a harcore linux-fgihter, so sorry :) + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 18:01:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA90D1BA95 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:00:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58802-09 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:00:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta6.adelphia.net (mta6.adelphia.net [68.168.78.190]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA111D1BAA9 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:00:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta6.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030822210046.TUFV1347.mta6.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:00:46 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F46847C.4010900@potentialtech.com> +Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:00:44 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tomka Gergely +Cc: Robert Treat , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Tests +References: +In-Reply-To: +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/314 +X-Sequence-Number: 3130 + +Tomka Gergely wrote: +> 2003-08-22 ragyog� napj�n Robert Treat ezt �zente: +> +>>On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 14:16, Bill Moran wrote: +>> +>>>>>>What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy has time +>>>>>>for other test. +>>>>> +>>>>>It's a shame you didn't test ufs+softupdates. I'd be curious to see how +>>>>>it stacked up against the others. +>>>> +>>>>Shame? I smell here a harcore BSD fighter :) +>>> +>>>Well, I suppose ... +>> +>>Well I'm not a hardcore bsd fighter and I'd like to see how it stacks up +>>as well. UFS+softupdates is supposed to be a very safe combination, if +>>it performs well enough I could see a recommendation for it for those +>>who are willing to look beyond linux. +> +> +> The guy who do the test have only a few weeks *bsd-experience, and i dont +> have bsd experience at all. The guy now planning tests on BSD, but he +> need some time to build up a good relationship with the *BSD. +> +> Ps.: i am a harcore linux-fgihter, so sorry :) + +Well, as much as I _am_ a die-hard BSD geek, I'm far more interested in +knowing what platform is really best when I need a top-notch PostgreSQL +server. + +I'm going to try to force some time this weekend to do some tests ... +we'll see if I succeed ... + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 19:19:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2C0D1BA43 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:19:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 84332-06 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:19:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B83D1BA42 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:19:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3540082; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:19:22 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-2" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Tomka Gergely , + Robert Treat +Subject: Re: Tests +Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:17:33 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: Bill Moran , +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308221517.33924.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/315 +X-Sequence-Number: 3131 + +Tomka, + +Did you get my test suggestion? It never hit the lists, so I wonder if yo= +u=20 +got it .... + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 19:25:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD020D1BA80 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:25:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 84374-07 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:25:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [65.217.53.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF7BD1BA82 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:24:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from thorn.mmrd.com (thorn.mmrd.com [172.25.10.100]) + by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7MLAJqd013429; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:10:20 -0400 +Received: from gnvex001.mmrd.com (gnvex001.mmrd.com [192.168.3.55]) + by thorn.mmrd.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7MMP3Z17927; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:25:04 -0400 +Received: from camel.mmrd.com ([172.25.5.213]) by gnvex001.mmrd.com with SMTP + (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) + id Q65S2HJW; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:25:01 -0400 +Subject: Re: Tests +From: Robert Treat +To: Tomka Gergely +Cc: Bill Moran , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: +References: +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 +Date: 22 Aug 2003 18:25:03 -0400 +Message-Id: <1061591103.3390.198.camel@camel> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/316 +X-Sequence-Number: 3132 + +On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 16:54, Tomka Gergely wrote: +> 2003-08-22 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Robert Treat ezt =FCzente: +>=20 +> > On Thu, 2003-08-21 at 14:16, Bill Moran wrote: +> > > >>>What test are interesting? Plese give us tips and ideas. The guy h= +as time +> > > >>>for other test. +> > > >> +> > > >>It's a shame you didn't test ufs+softupdates. I'd be curious to se= +e how +> > > >>it stacked up against the others. +> > > > +> > > > Shame? I smell here a harcore BSD fighter :) +> > > +> > > Well, I suppose ... +> > > +> > +> > Well I'm not a hardcore bsd fighter and I'd like to see how it stacks up +> > as well. UFS+softupdates is supposed to be a very safe combination, if +> > it performs well enough I could see a recommendation for it for those +> > who are willing to look beyond linux. +>=20 +> The guy who do the test have only a few weeks *bsd-experience, and i dont +> have bsd experience at all. The guy now planning tests on BSD, but he +> need some time to build up a good relationship with the *BSD. +>=20 + +Another thought would be linux w/ xfs + +Also, can you post more complete hardware/ os info?=20 + +Oh, and vs 7.4beta1 would be great too.=20 + +:-) + +Robert Treat +--=20 +Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 20:32:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23E5D1BA10 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:32:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 99708-06 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:32:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from curry.tmsl.demon.co.uk (tmsl-adsl.demon.co.uk [80.177.114.181]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5C0D1BA84 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:31:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from bacon.tmsl.demon.co.uk (bacon.tmsl.demon.co.uk [192.168.7.102]) + by curry.tmsl.demon.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7MNW4u23303 + for ; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:32:05 +0100 +Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:32:00 +0100 +From: Paul Thomas +To: "pgsql-performance @ postgresql . org" +Subject: Re: Tests +Message-ID: <20030823003200.A3743@bacon> +References: + <3F46847C.4010900@potentialtech.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-2 +In-Reply-To: <3F46847C.4010900@potentialtech.com>; + from wmoran@potentialtech.com on Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 22:00:44 + +0100 +X-Mailer: Balsa 1.2.3 +Lines: 31 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/317 +X-Sequence-Number: 3133 + + +On 22/08/2003 22:00 Bill Moran wrote: + +> [snip] Well, as much as I _am_ a die-hard BSD geek, I'm far more +> interested in +> knowing what platform is really best when I need a top-notch PostgreSQL +> server. +> +> I'm going to try to force some time this weekend to do some tests ... +> we'll see if I succeed ... + +I, for one, would be very interested to see your results (can't you find +something better to at the weekend than **** about with computers ?:) + + +What I'd really be interested in is a comparison of Linux vs BSD using +each OS's variations of file system on the same single-processor Intel/AMD +based hardware. + + +Selfishness and sillyness aside, I'm sure your tests will of interest to +us all. Thanks in advance + +-- +Paul Thomas ++------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+ +| Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for the Smaller +Business | +| Computer Consultants | +http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | ++------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+ + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 20:55:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B31D1BA3E + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:55:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 03394-07 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:55:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta4.adelphia.net (mta4.adelphia.net [68.168.78.184]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38D7D1BA5C + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:55:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta4.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030822235527.LZWU1348.mta4.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:55:27 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F46AD6E.4080903@potentialtech.com> +Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:55:26 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Paul Thomas +Cc: "pgsql-performance @ postgresql . org" +Subject: Re: Tests +References: + <3F46847C.4010900@potentialtech.com> <20030823003200.A3743@bacon> +In-Reply-To: <20030823003200.A3743@bacon> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/318 +X-Sequence-Number: 3134 + +Paul Thomas wrote: +> +> On 22/08/2003 22:00 Bill Moran wrote: +> +>> [snip] Well, as much as I _am_ a die-hard BSD geek, I'm far more +>> interested in +>> knowing what platform is really best when I need a top-notch PostgreSQL +>> server. +>> +>> I'm going to try to force some time this weekend to do some tests ... +>> we'll see if I succeed ... +> +> I, for one, would be very interested to see your results (can't you find +> something better to at the weekend than **** about with computers ?:) + +Unfortunately, no. I've been trying to get a date for a month and I'm +about ready to give up ;) + +> +> What I'd really be interested in is a comparison of Linux vs BSD using +> each OS's variations of file system on the same single-processor +> Intel/AMD based hardware. +> + +That was what I was hoping to do. + +> Selfishness and sillyness aside, I'm sure your tests will of interest to +> us all. Thanks in advance + +Oh great, now I feel obligated ... well, I guess I'd better get started. + +I'll post the results for as far as I get late sometime Sunday. I can't +promise they'll be complete at that point, but we'll see what happens. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 22 21:04:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F52D1BA3E + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:04:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06074-03 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:04:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from davinci.ethosmedia.com (unknown [209.128.84.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B04D1BA29 + for ; + Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:04:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [66.219.92.2] (HELO temoku) + by davinci.ethosmedia.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0.2) + with ESMTP id 3540518; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:02:05 -0700 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-2" +From: Josh Berkus +Reply-To: josh@agliodbs.com +Organization: Aglio Database Solutions +To: Tomka Gergely , + Robert Treat +Subject: Re: Tests +Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:00:17 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: Bill Moran , +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308221700.17201.josh@agliodbs.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/319 +X-Sequence-Number: 3135 + +Tomka, + +Since this didn't post last time: + +Another good test to do would be one that measures simultaenous steaming=20 +read-write. For example: + +create table_a, with at least 10,000 records, where field1 is the PK and=20 +field2 is a text field.=20=20=20 +create table_b, with 500,000 or more records, where field2 is an FK to=20 +table_a, and field_3 is a text field. + +do the following: + +UPDATE table_b SET field3 =3D field3 || 'something' +WHERE EXISTS (select field1 FROM table_a + where table_a.field1 =3D table_b.field2 + AND table_a.field_2 =3D 'x') + +For the test to be most effective, the condition above should affect about= +=20 +100,000 records of table_a, and the records should not be contiguos on disk= +.=20=20 +Further, tablea.field2 should not be indexed in order to force a disk scan. + +Also another test I'd really like to see is hardware raid (Adaptec, LSI)=20 +against Linux software raid, and 5-disk RAID 5 against 4-disk RAID 1+0. + +--=20 +-Josh Berkus + Aglio Database Solutions + San Francisco + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 23 02:23:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F72BD1D124 + for ; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:20:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 94333-04 + for ; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:20:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55BE7D1CE5A + for ; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:20:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7N5KEi09605 + for ; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:20:14 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7N5KCV09598; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:20:13 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 0C88E6FCCC; Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:20:02 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 013E27F6D2; Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:20:01 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:20:01 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: Josh Berkus +Cc: Robert Treat , + Bill Moran , +Subject: Re: Tests +In-Reply-To: <200308221517.33924.josh@agliodbs.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/320 +X-Sequence-Number: 3136 + +2003-08-22 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Josh Berkus ezt =FCzente: + +> Tomka, +> +> Did you get my test suggestion? It never hit the lists, so I wonder if = +you +> got it .... + +Yes, we got it, and we use your ideas. Thanks. + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 23 04:55:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF333D1BA95 + for ; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:55:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26449-08 + for ; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:54:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net (lists.sourceforge.net + [66.35.250.206]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D8BD1BA5D + for ; + Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:54:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail by sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with local (Exim + 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 19qTEZ-0002Yx-00 + for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:54:51 -0700 +X-Failed-Recipients: cellog@sourceforge.net +From: Mail Delivery System +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender +Message-Id: +Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:54:51 -0700 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/321 +X-Sequence-Number: 3137 + +This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim). + +A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its +recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: + + cellog@sourceforge.net + unknown local-part "cellog" in domain "sourceforge.net" + +------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ + +Return-path: +Received: from bsn-95-242-77.dsl.siol.net ([193.95.242.77] helo=MORDOR) + by sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) + id 19qTEY-0002W8-00 + for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:54:50 -0700 +From: +To: +Subject: Thank you! +Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 9:54:48 +0200 +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +Importance: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; + boundary="_NextPart_000_001AFC43" +Message-Id: + +This is a multipart message in MIME format + +--_NextPart_000_001AFC43 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +Please see the attached file for details. +--_NextPart_000_001AFC43-- + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 24 01:27:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3732ED1BA87 + for ; + Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:27:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 29176-09 + for ; + Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:27:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.travelamericas.com (dsl231-059-037.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net + [216.231.59.37]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 18541D1B9BA + for ; + Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:27:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 6059 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2003 04:27:41 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO travelamericas.com) (127.0.0.1) + by localhost with SMTP; 24 Aug 2003 04:27:41 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> +Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 21:27:41 -0700 +From: Chris Travers +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: PgSQL General ML +Subject: Replication Ideas +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1282 +X-Sequence-Number: 47698 + +Hi-- + +I had been thinking of the issues of multimaster replication and how to +do highly available, loadballanced clustering with PostgreSQL. Here is +my outline, and I am looking for comments on the limitations of how this +would work. + +Several PostgreSQL servers would share a virtual IP address, and would +coordinate among themselves which will act as "Master" for the purposes +of a single transaction (but connection could be easier). SELECT +statements are handled exclusively by the transaction master while +anything that writes to a database would be sent to all the the +"Masters." At the end of each transaction the systems would poll +eachother regarding whether they were all successful: + +1: Any system which is successful in COMMITting the transaction must +ignore any system which fails the transaction untill a recovery can be made. + +2: Any system which fails in COMMITting the transaction must cease to +be a master, provided that it recieves a signat from any other member of +the cluster that indicates that that member succeeded in committing the +transaction. + +3: If all nodes fail to commit, then they all remain masters. + +Recovery would be done in several steps: + +1: The database would be copied to the failed system using pg_dump. +2: A current recovery would be done from the transaction log. +3: This would be repeated in order to ensure that the database is up to +date. +4: When two successive restores have been achieved with no new +additions to the database, the "All Recovered" signal is sent to the +cluster and the node is ready to start processing again. (need a better +way of doing this). + +Note: Recovery is the problem, I know. my model is only a starting +point for the purposes of discussion and trying to bring something to +the conversation. + +Any thoughts or suggestions? + +Best Wishes, +Chris Travers + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 24 03:13:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38BC6D1B952 + for ; + Sun, 24 Aug 2003 03:13:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 59251-02 + for ; + Sun, 24 Aug 2003 03:13:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF44BD1B550 + for ; + Sun, 24 Aug 2003 03:13:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030824061305.MDXL11854.lakemtao02.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2003 02:13:05 -0400 +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL General ML +In-Reply-To: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:13:08 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1283 +X-Sequence-Number: 47699 + +On Sat, 2003-08-23 at 23:27, Chris Travers wrote: +> Hi-- +> +> I had been thinking of the issues of multimaster replication and how to +> do highly available, loadballanced clustering with PostgreSQL. Here is +> my outline, and I am looking for comments on the limitations of how this +> would work. +> +> Several PostgreSQL servers would share a virtual IP address, and would +> coordinate among themselves which will act as "Master" for the purposes +> of a single transaction (but connection could be easier). SELECT +> statements are handled exclusively by the transaction master while +> anything that writes to a database would be sent to all the the +> "Masters." At the end of each transaction the systems would poll +> eachother regarding whether they were all successful: +> +> 1: Any system which is successful in COMMITting the transaction must +> ignore any system which fails the transaction untill a recovery can be made. +> +> 2: Any system which fails in COMMITting the transaction must cease to +> be a master, provided that it recieves a signat from any other member of +> the cluster that indicates that that member succeeded in committing the +> transaction. +> +> 3: If all nodes fail to commit, then they all remain masters. +> +> Recovery would be done in several steps: +> +> 1: The database would be copied to the failed system using pg_dump. +> 2: A current recovery would be done from the transaction log. +> 3: This would be repeated in order to ensure that the database is up to +> date. +> 4: When two successive restores have been achieved with no new +> additions to the database, the "All Recovered" signal is sent to the +> cluster and the node is ready to start processing again. (need a better +> way of doing this). +> +> Note: Recovery is the problem, I know. my model is only a starting +> point for the purposes of discussion and trying to bring something to +> the conversation. + +This is vaguely similar to Two Phase Commit, which is a sine qua +non of distributed transactions, which is the s.q.n. of multi-master +replication. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty: power is ever +stealing from the many to the few. The manna of popular liberty +must be gathered each day, or it is rotten... The hand entrusted +with power becomes, either from human depravity or esprit de +corps, the necessary enemy of the people. Only by continual +oversight can the democrat in office be prevented from hardening +into a despot: only by unintermitted agitation can a people be +kept sufficiently awake to principle not to let liberty be +smothered in material prosperity... Never look, for an age when +the people can be quiet and safe. At such times despotism, like +a shrouding mist, steals over the mirror of Freedom" +Wendell Phillips + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 12:04:02 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2B6D1B8D2 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:03:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38234-10 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:03:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from host2.hostseguro.com (unknown [200.198.188.133]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10858D1B8C8 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:03:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from cpanel by host2.hostseguro.com with local (Exim 4.20) + id 19rIsC-0000gC-4D + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:03:12 -0300 +Received: from 200.203.33.227 ([200.203.33.227]) + by sistemica.info (IMP) with HTTP + for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:03:12 -0300 +Message-ID: <1061823792.3f4a253015fdc@sistemica.info> +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:03:12 -0300 +From: Rhaoni Chiu Pereira +To: PostgreSQL Performance +Subject: Query too slow +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; + boundary="-MOQ1061823792f0203aabba46ce180b1ce3f6ce60d45f" +User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 +X-Originating-IP: 200.203.33.227 +X-MailScanner-Information: Verificado pelo McAfee VirusScan / Scanned by + McAfee VirusScan +X-MailScanner: Nao infectado / Found to be clean +X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, + please include it with any abuse report +X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host2.hostseguro.com +X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - postgresql.org +X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] +X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sistemica.info +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/322 +X-Sequence-Number: 3138 + +This message is in MIME format. + +---MOQ1061823792f0203aabba46ce180b1ce3f6ce60d45f +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit + +Hi List, + + I have posted a subjetc on the admin list but I thought that it might fit +better on this list as follow: + +Hi List, + + As I said before, I'm not a DBA " yet" , but I'm learning ... and I +already have a PostgreSQL running, so I have to ask some help... + I got a SQL as folows : + + SELECT /*+ */ +ftnfco00.estado_cliente , +ftcofi00.grupo_faturamento , +SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.atual_fatura, '-', -(NVL +(ftnfpr00.qtde_duzias,0)), '+', NVL(ftnfpr00.qtde_duzias,0), 0) ) , +SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.atual_fatura, '-', -(NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0)), '+', +NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0), 0) ) , +ftprod00.tipo_cadastro||ftprod00.codigo_produto||'||'||gsames00.ano_mes , +ftprod00.descricao_produto||'||'||gsames00.descricao , +DIVIDE( SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.atual_fatura, '-', -(NVL +(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0)), '+', NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0), 0) +*ftnfpr00.margem_comercial ), + SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.atual_fatura, '-', -(NVL +(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0)), '+', NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0), 0)) ) , +SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.nf_prodgratis, 'S', NVL(ftnfpr00.qtde_duzias,0), 0 ) ) , +SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.nf_prodgratis, 'S', NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0), 0 ) ) +FROM +ftprod00 , +ftnfco00 , +ftcgma00 , +ftcgca00 , +ftspro00 , +ftclcr00 , +gsames00 , +ftcofi00 , +ftrepr00 , +gsesta00 , +ftsupv00 , +ftgrep00 , +ftclgr00 , +ftband00 , +fttcli00 , +ftredc00 , +ftnfpr00 +WHERE +ftnfco00.emp = 909 AND +ftnfpr00.fil IN ('101') AND +ftnfco00.situacao_nf = 'N' AND +TO_CHAR(ftnfco00.data_emissao,'YYYYMM') >= '200208' AND +TO_CHAR(ftnfco00.data_emissao,'YYYYMM') <= '200304' AND +ftcofi00.grupo_faturamento >= '01' AND +(ftcofi00.atual_fatura IN ('+','-') OR ftcofi00.nf_prodgratis = 'S') AND +ftcgma00.emp = ftprod00.emp AND +ftcgma00.fil = ftprod00.fil AND +ftcgma00.codigo = ftprod00.cla_marca AND +ftcgca00.emp = ftprod00.emp AND +ftcgca00.fil = ftprod00.fil AND +ftcgca00.codigo = ftprod00.cla_categoria AND +ftspro00.emp = ftprod00.emp AND +ftspro00.fil = ftprod00.fil AND +ftspro00.codigo = ftprod00.situacao AND +ftclcr00.emp = ftnfco00.emp AND +ftclcr00.fil = ftnfco00.empfil AND +ftclcr00.tipo_cadastro = ftnfco00.tipo_cad_clicre AND +ftclcr00.codigo = ftnfco00.cod_cliente AND +gsames00.ano_mes = TO_CHAR(ftnfco00.data_emissao,'YYYYMM') AND +ftcofi00.emp = ftnfco00.emp AND +ftcofi00.fil = ftnfco00.empfil AND +ftcofi00.codigo_fiscal = ftnfco00.cod_fiscal AND +ftrepr00.emp = ftnfco00.emp AND +ftrepr00.fil = ftnfco00.empfil AND +ftrepr00.codigo_repr = ftnfco00.cod_repres AND +gsesta00.estado_sigla = ftnfco00.estado_cliente AND +ftsupv00.emp = ftrepr00.emp AND +ftsupv00.fil = ftrepr00.fil AND +ftsupv00.codigo_supervisor = ftrepr00.codigo_supervisor AND +ftgrep00.emp = ftrepr00.emp AND +ftgrep00.fil = ftrepr00.fil AND +ftgrep00.codigo_grupo_rep = ftrepr00.codigo_grupo_rep AND +ftclgr00.emp = ftclcr00.emp AND +ftclgr00.fil = ftclcr00.fil AND +ftclgr00.codigo = ftclcr00.codigo_grupo_cliente AND +ftband00.emp = ftclcr00.emp AND +ftband00.fil = ftclcr00.fil AND +ftband00.codigo = ftclcr00.bandeira_cliente AND +fttcli00.emp = ftclcr00.emp AND +fttcli00.fil = ftclcr00.fil AND +fttcli00.cod_tipocliente = ftclcr00.codigo_tipo_cliente AND +ftredc00.emp = ftclcr00.emp AND +ftredc00.fil = ftclcr00.fil AND +ftredc00.tipo_contribuinte = ftclcr00.tipo_contribuinte AND +ftredc00.codigo_rede = ftclcr00.codigo_rede AND +gsesta00.estado_sigla = ftclcr00.emp_estado AND +ftnfco00.emp = ftnfpr00.emp AND +ftnfco00.fil = ftnfpr00.fil AND +ftnfco00.nota_fiscal = ftnfpr00.nota_fiscal AND +ftnfco00.serie = ftnfpr00.serie AND +ftnfco00.data_emissao = ftnfpr00.data_emissao AND +ftprod00.emp = ftnfpr00.emp AND +ftprod00.fil = ftnfpr00.empfil AND +ftprod00.tipo_cadastro = ftnfpr00.tipo_cad_promat AND +ftprod00.codigo_produto= ftnfpr00.cod_produto +GROUP BY +ftnfco00.estado_cliente , +ftcofi00.grupo_faturamento , +ftprod00.tipo_cadastro||ftprod00.codigo_produto||'||'||gsames00.ano_mes , +ftprod00.descricao_produto||'||'||gsames00.descricao + + +I have created the decode, NVL and DIVIDE functions.... the problem is that the +where condition makes this query to slow ( about 4 min ) and the same query in +my Oracle database takes less than 40 seconds. I have tried to isolate the +problem taking off some fields and I left justa the two first fields in the +query ( ftnfco00.estado_cliente , ftcofi00.grupo_faturamento ) and it still +taking almost 4 min to return. Does anyone have a hint to give me to make it +faster ? + + Atached goes a explain analyze return os this query. + + + + +Atenciosamente, + +Rhaoni Chiu Pereira +Sist�mica Computadores + +Visite-nos na Web: http://sistemica.info +Fone/Fax : +55 51 3328 1122 + + + + + + +---MOQ1061823792f0203aabba46ce180b1ce3f6ce60d45f +Content-Type: text/plain; name="explain.sql" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="explain.sql" + +CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg +ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIFFVRVJZIFBMQU4KCi0tLS0tLS0t +LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t +LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t +LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t +LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t +LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t +LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t 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for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:17:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20022D1B8E3 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:17:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7PFFmvg025890; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:15:48 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:15:07 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Josh Berkus +Cc: Tomka Gergely , + Robert Treat , + Bill Moran , +Subject: Re: Tests +In-Reply-To: <200308221700.17201.josh@agliodbs.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner-ihs-com: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck-ihs-com: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/323 +X-Sequence-Number: 3139 + +On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: + +> Also another test I'd really like to see is hardware raid (Adaptec, LSI) +> against Linux software raid, and 5-disk RAID 5 against 4-disk RAID 1+0. + +It would be nice to cross those, so you have RAID5 sw vs RAID5 hw, vs +RAID1+0 sw vs RAID1+0 hw. + +Now if only I had the hardware. Time to scrounge. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 12:24:12 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25A5DD1B8CD + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:23:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49719-04 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:23:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta5.adelphia.net (mta5.adelphia.net [68.168.78.187]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D31CED1B8BD + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:23:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta5.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030825152310.OHAX7719.mta5.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:23:10 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4A29DC.8010501@potentialtech.com> +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:23:08 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Tests +References: +In-Reply-To: +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/324 +X-Sequence-Number: 3140 + +scott.marlowe wrote: +> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: +> +>>Also another test I'd really like to see is hardware raid (Adaptec, LSI) +>>against Linux software raid, and 5-disk RAID 5 against 4-disk RAID 1+0. +> +> It would be nice to cross those, so you have RAID5 sw vs RAID5 hw, vs +> RAID1+0 sw vs RAID1+0 hw. +> +> Now if only I had the hardware. Time to scrounge. + +I just wanted to comment, that I don't know where you guys find the time +and money to do all this. + +I pretty much blew my entire weekend running tests, and I'm still not done +enough to post any results. + +The upshot being, thanks to everyone who donates time, money, spare parts +or whatever. Sometimes I forget how valuable all that is. And I don't +think it gets said often enough how much people like me appreciate all the +hard work the developers and testers and everyone else involved does. +I mean, PostgreSQL (like Linux or BSD or any other open-source project) is +a fantastic piece of software! + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 12:28:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4160D1B8D1 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:28:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49921-07 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:27:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A855D1B8AA + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:27:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7PFRli12109 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:27:47 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7PFRiV12095; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:27:44 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 051816FCCD; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:27:32 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id EDE237F6DC; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:27:32 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:27:32 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: "scott.marlowe" +Cc: Josh Berkus , + Robert Treat , + Bill Moran , + psql performance list +Subject: Re: Tests +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/325 +X-Sequence-Number: 3141 + +2003-08-25 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n scott.marlowe ezt =FCzente: + +> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: +> +> > Also another test I'd really like to see is hardware raid (Adaptec, LSI) +> > against Linux software raid, and 5-disk RAID 5 against 4-disk RAID 1+0. +> +> It would be nice to cross those, so you have RAID5 sw vs RAID5 hw, vs +> RAID1+0 sw vs RAID1+0 hw. +> +> Now if only I had the hardware. Time to scrounge. + +Hm. +At first, now we dont have raid hardware, sorry. +Second, in my practice the harware raid slower than sw raid, because now +the cheapest computing power is the cpu. So i dont like hardware raid +solutions, and even on ibm pc-servers i try not using them. + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 12:45:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347DCD1B8B5 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:45:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 52714-07 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:44:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6203D1B8C3 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:44:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 3E27ED6FB; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:44:43 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 2DA8A5C0D; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:44:43 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:44:43 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Rhaoni Chiu Pereira +Cc: PostgreSQL Performance +Subject: Re: Query too slow +In-Reply-To: <1061823792.3f4a253015fdc@sistemica.info> +Message-ID: <20030825083343.H90125-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/326 +X-Sequence-Number: 3142 + +On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Rhaoni Chiu Pereira wrote: + +> Hi List, +> +> As I said before, I'm not a DBA " yet" , but I'm learning ... and I +> already have a PostgreSQL running, so I have to ask some help... +> I got a SQL as folows : + +... + +Looking at the explain: + +It's choosing lots of nested loops because it's expecting a small number +of rows to be returned at each step but in reality there are alot of rows +so that's may not really be a good choice. + +For example the scan of ftnfco00 is expected to return 295 rows but +actually returns 9339, and it looks like it's not estimating the number of +matches between the tables very well either since the real count gets up +to 240000 in a step where the estimated rows goes to 1. + +What does explain analyze give after set enable_nestloop=off;? + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 13:33:56 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53291D1B8AA + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:33:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69448-03 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:33:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F91D1B89F + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:33:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7PGavVO016763 + for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:06:57 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7PGavQb016750 + for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:06:57 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: PostgreSQL Performance +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:05:05 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Query too slow +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4A8811.17912.54E46A0@localhost> +In-reply-to: <20030825083343.H90125-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +References: <1061823792.3f4a253015fdc@sistemica.info> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/327 +X-Sequence-Number: 3143 + +On 25 Aug 2003 at 8:44, Stephan Szabo wrote: + +> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Rhaoni Chiu Pereira wrote: +> +> > Hi List, +> > +> > As I said before, I'm not a DBA " yet" , but I'm learning ... and I +> > already have a PostgreSQL running, so I have to ask some help... +> > I got a SQL as folows : +> +> ... +> +> Looking at the explain: +> +> It's choosing lots of nested loops because it's expecting a small number +> of rows to be returned at each step but in reality there are alot of rows +> so that's may not really be a good choice. +> +> For example the scan of ftnfco00 is expected to return 295 rows but +> actually returns 9339, and it looks like it's not estimating the number of +> matches between the tables very well either since the real count gets up +> to 240000 in a step where the estimated rows goes to 1. +> +> What does explain analyze give after set enable_nestloop=off;? + +In addition to that if it is getting the stats wrong, does running vacuum +analyze help? If stats are updated, it should pick up proper plans, right? + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Flon's Law: There is not now, and never will be, a language in which it is the +least bit difficult to write bad programs. + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 14:06:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 198EBD1B8B5 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:06:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80218-01 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:05:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.travelamericas.com (dsl231-059-037.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net + [216.231.59.37]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E239CD1B8DF + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:05:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 28828 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2003 17:06:22 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO travelamericas.com) (127.0.0.1) + by localhost with SMTP; 25 Aug 2003 17:06:22 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:06:22 -0700 +From: Chris Travers +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> +In-Reply-To: <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1302 +X-Sequence-Number: 47718 + +Ron Johnson wrote: + +>This is vaguely similar to Two Phase Commit, which is a sine qua +>non of distributed transactions, which is the s.q.n. of multi-master +>replication. +> +> +> + +I may be wrong, but if I recall correctly, one of the problems with a +standard 2-phase commit is that if one server goes down, the other +masters cannot commit their transactions. This would make a clustered +database server have a downtime equivalent to the total downtime of all +of its nodes. This is a real problem. Of course my understanding of +Two Phase Commit may be incorrect, in which case, I would appreciate it +if someone could point out where I am wrong. + +It had occurred to me that the issue was one of failure handling more +than one of concept. I.e. the problem is how one node's failure is +handled rather than the fundamental structure of Two Phase Commit. If a +single node fails, we don't want that to take down the whole cluster, +and I have actually revised my logic a bit more (to make it even +safer). In this I assume that: + +1: General failures on any one node are rare +2: A failure is more likely to prevent a transaction from being +committed than allow one to be committed. + +This hot-failover solution requires a transparency from a client +perspective-- i.e. the client should not have to choose a different +server should one go and should not need to know when a server comes +back up. This also means that we need to assume that a load balancing +solution can be a part of the clustering solution. I would assume that +this would require a shared IP address for the public interface of the +server and a private communicatiions channel where each node has a +separate IP address (similar to Microsoft's implimentation of Network +Load Balancing). Also, different transactions within a single +connection should be able to be handled by different nodes, so if one +node goes down, users don't have to reconnect. + +So here is my suggested logic for high availablility/load balanced +clustering: + +1: All nodes recognize each user connection and delegage transactions +rather than connections. + +2: At the beginning of a transaction, nodes decide who will take it. +Any operation which does not change the information or schema of the +database is handled exclusively on that node. Other operations are +distributed across nodes. + +3: When the transaction is committed, the nodes "vote" on whether the +commitment of the transaction is valid. Majority rules, and the minority +must remove themselves from the cluster until they can synchronize their +databases with the existing masters. If the vote is split 50/50 (i.e. +one node fails in a 2 node cluster), success is considered more likely +to be valid than failure, and the node(s) which failed to commit the +transaction must remove themselves from the cluster until they can recover. + +Best Wishes, +Chris Travers + + + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 14:38:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1584D1B8C6 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:38:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 84902-09 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:38:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9AED1B8D4 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:38:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao01.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030825173816.PNLO5378.lakemtao01.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:38:16 -0400 +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL General ML +In-Reply-To: <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1061833095.11311.61.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:38:16 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1304 +X-Sequence-Number: 47720 + +On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 12:06, Chris Travers wrote: +> Ron Johnson wrote: +> +> >This is vaguely similar to Two Phase Commit, which is a sine qua +> >non of distributed transactions, which is the s.q.n. of multi-master +> >replication. +> > +> > +> > +> +> I may be wrong, but if I recall correctly, one of the problems with a +> standard 2-phase commit is that if one server goes down, the other +> masters cannot commit their transactions. This would make a clustered +> database server have a downtime equivalent to the total downtime of all +> of its nodes. This is a real problem. Of course my understanding of +> Two Phase Commit may be incorrect, in which case, I would appreciate it +> if someone could point out where I am wrong. + +Note that I didn't mean to imply that 2PC is sufficient to implement +M-M. The DBMS designer(s) must decide what to do (like queue up +changes) if 2PC fails. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Our computers and their computers are the same color. The +conversion should be no problem!" +Unknown + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 15:25:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 572E3D1B8DD + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:25:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 99853-02 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:24:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from cm-lcon2-53-101.cm.vtr.net (CM-lcon2-53-101.cm.vtr.net + [200.83.53.101]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C6FD1B8D1 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:24:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by cm-lcon2-53-101.cm.vtr.net (Postfix, from userid 500) + id 7E59680223; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:24:41 -0400 (CLT) +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:24:41 -0400 +From: Alvaro Herrera +To: Chris Travers +Cc: Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +Message-ID: <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1306 +X-Sequence-Number: 47722 + +On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 10:06:22AM -0700, Chris Travers wrote: +> Ron Johnson wrote: +> +> >This is vaguely similar to Two Phase Commit, which is a sine qua +> >non of distributed transactions, which is the s.q.n. of multi-master +> >replication. +> +> I may be wrong, but if I recall correctly, one of the problems with a +> standard 2-phase commit is that if one server goes down, the other +> masters cannot commit their transactions. + +Before the discussion goes any further, have you read the work related +to Postgres-r? It's a substantially different animal from 2PC AFAIK. + +-- +Alvaro Herrera () +"Right now the sectors on the hard disk run clockwise, but I heard a rumor that +you can squeeze 0.2% more throughput by running them counterclockwise. +It's worth the effort. Recommended." (Gerry Pourwelle) + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 15:38:15 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6404D1B8AA + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:36:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 00413-08 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:35:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.travelamericas.com (dsl231-059-037.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net + [216.231.59.37]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1DF3CD1B52C + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:35:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 29258 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2003 18:36:20 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO travelamericas.com) (127.0.0.1) + by localhost with SMTP; 25 Aug 2003 18:36:20 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:36:20 -0700 +From: Chris Travers +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Alvaro Herrera +Cc: Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> + <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> +In-Reply-To: <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1307 +X-Sequence-Number: 47723 + +Alvaro Herrera wrote: + +>Before the discussion goes any further, have you read the work related +>to Postgres-r? It's a substantially different animal from 2PC AFAIK. +> +> +> +Yes I have. Postgres-r is not a high-availability solution which is +capable of transparent failover, although it is a very useful project on +its own. + +Best Wishes, +Chris Travers. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 17:22:20 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E892D1B8E6 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:21:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 31230-04 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:21:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E03D1B8E3 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:21:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7PKLhek032527 + for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:21:43 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7PJuf5U026008 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:56:41 GMT +From: "Bupp Phillips" +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: What is the fastest way to get a resultset +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:56:59 -0700 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 20 +Message-ID: +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/328 +X-Sequence-Number: 3144 + +I'm very new to Postgresql, so don't beat me up to bad if you see a problem, +just inform me what I've done wrong. + +I'm use Postgresql 7.2 (PeerDirect's Windows port) on Win2000 384MB RAM 10GB +of Free space 800 Mhz, using the ODBC driver 7.03.01.00. + +I have a table that has 103,000 records in it (record size is about 953 +bytes) and when I do a select all (select * from ) it takes a +whopping 30 secs for the data to return!! + +SQLServer on the other hand takes 6 secs, but you can also use what is +called a firehose cursor, which will return the data in < 1 sec. + +I have done everything that I know how to speed this up, does anyone have +any advise? + +Thanks + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 02:58:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50806D1B89D + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:38:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33564-06 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:37:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail2.fbab.net (mail2.fbab.net [195.54.134.228]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BE9DD1B550 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:37:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 31972 invoked by uid 136); 25 Aug 2003 20:37:37 -0000 +Received: from mag@fbab.net by mail2.fbab.net by uid 133 with + qmail-scanner-1.20rc1 (avp: 4.0.3.0. Clear:RC:0:. + Processed in 0.058429 secs); 25 Aug 2003 20:37:37 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO TEST11) (magpool1@195.54.134.132) + by mail2.fbab.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2003 20:37:37 -0000 +Message-ID: <007f01c36b48$b0f06df0$f80c0a0a@mnd> +From: "Magnus Naeslund(f)" +To: "Bupp Phillips" +Cc: +References: +Subject: Re: What is the fastest way to get a resultset +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:37:24 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/331 +X-Sequence-Number: 3147 + +Bupp Phillips wrote: +> I'm very new to Postgresql, so don't beat me up to bad if you see a +> problem, just inform me what I've done wrong. +> +> I'm use Postgresql 7.2 (PeerDirect's Windows port) on Win2000 384MB +> RAM 10GB of Free space 800 Mhz, using the ODBC driver 7.03.01.00. +> +> I have a table that has 103,000 records in it (record size is about +> 953 bytes) and when I do a select all (select * from
) it +> takes a whopping 30 secs for the data to return!! +> +> SQLServer on the other hand takes 6 secs, but you can also use what is +> called a firehose cursor, which will return the data in < 1 sec. +> +> I have done everything that I know how to speed this up, does anyone +> have any advise? +> + +Probably you need to fetch more than one row at a time. +I made that misstake once myself :) + +Magnus + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 02:57:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5A6D1B8AB + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:47:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33568-09 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:46:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 29250D1B523 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:46:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 15815 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2003 20:46:34 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2003 20:46:34 -0000 +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:46:34 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Bupp Phillips +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: What is the fastest way to get a resultset +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/330 +X-Sequence-Number: 3146 + +On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Bupp Phillips wrote: + +> +> I have a table that has 103,000 records in it (record size is about 953 +> bytes) and when I do a select all (select * from
) it takes a +> whopping 30 secs for the data to return!! +> +> SQLServer on the other hand takes 6 secs, but you can also use what is +> called a firehose cursor, which will return the data in < 1 sec. +> +You probably want a cursor. +Typically what happens is postgres sends _all_ the data to the client - +which can be rather substantial. A cursor allows you to say "get me the +first 1000 records. now the next 1000" - it should get you the speed you +want. + + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 02:54:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6609FD1B8AA + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:12:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38065-06 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:11:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13731D1B550 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:11:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7PL9J5H011628; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:09:19 -0400 (EDT) +To: Chris Travers +Cc: Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +In-reply-to: <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> + <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> + <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Chris Travers + message dated "Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:36:20 -0700" +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:09:19 -0400 +Message-ID: <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1328 +X-Sequence-Number: 47744 + +Chris Travers writes: +> Yes I have. Postgres-r is not a high-availability solution which is +> capable of transparent failover, + +What makes you say that? My understanding is it's supposed to survive +loss of individual servers. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Mon Aug 25 19:16:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F85BD1B8E4 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:15:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 55635-06 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:15:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.travelamericas.com (dsl231-059-037.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net + [216.231.59.37]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6B678D1B8DB + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:14:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 30316 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2003 22:15:25 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO travelamericas.com) (127.0.0.1) + by localhost with SMTP; 25 Aug 2003 22:15:25 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4A8A7D.30308@travelamericas.com> +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:15:25 -0700 +From: Chris Travers +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> + <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> + <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> + <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> +In-Reply-To: <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1316 +X-Sequence-Number: 47732 + +Tom Lane wrote: + +>Chris Travers writes: +> +> +>>Yes I have. Postgres-r is not a high-availability solution which is +>>capable of transparent failover, +>> +>> +> +>What makes you say that? My understanding is it's supposed to survive +>loss of individual servers. +> +> regards, tom lane +> +> +> +> +My mistake. I must have gotten them confused with another +(asynchronous) replication project. + +Best Wishes, +Chris Travers + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 02:49:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB8A9D1B8B3 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:51:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65487-02 + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:51:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BAD0D1B8CC + for ; + Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:51:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7PMphek065044 + for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:51:43 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7PMSNUl060789 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:28:23 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:28:09 -0400 +Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc +Lines: 33 +Message-ID: +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> + <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> + <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> + <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <3F4A8A7D.30308@travelamericas.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? +X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ +X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:7H3smKpt3QcyQw0V35isuFhnHnM= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/329 +X-Sequence-Number: 3145 + +A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, "Bupp Phillips" wrote: +>I have a table that has 103,000 records in it (record size is about +>953 bytes) and when I do a select all (select * from
) it takes +>a whopping 30 secs for the data to return!! + +>SQLServer on the other hand takes 6 secs, but you can also use what is +>called a firehose cursor, which will return the data in < 1 sec. + +>I have done everything that I know how to speed this up, does anyone +>have any advise? + +Have you VACUUMed the table? 30 seconds to start getting data back +from such a query _seems_ a liittle high. + +It would be quite a reasonable idea to open up a CURSOR and request +the data in more byte-sized pieces so that the result set wouldn't +forcibly bloat in any one spot. + +You start by submitting the cursor definition, inside a transaction: + begin transaction; + declare cursor my_fire_hose for select * from
; + +You then iterate over the following, which fetches 1000 rows at a time: + fetch forward 1000 in my_fire_hose; + +That should cut down the time it takes to start getting records to +near enough to zero... +-- +output = reverse("gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc") +http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/lisp.html +"Microsoft is sort of a mixture between the Borg and the +Ferengi. Combine the Borg marketing with Ferengi networking..." +-- Andre Beck in dcouln + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 15:49:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24720D1B8B1 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:02:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 92036-03 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:01:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ganymede.hub.org (u173n10.eastlink.ca [24.224.173.10]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EC9D1B8B3 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:01:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) + id ACEC33427F; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:01:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id A8F8033D0E; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:01:26 -0300 (ADT) +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:01:26 -0300 (ADT) +From: "Marc G. Fournier" +To: Tom Lane +Cc: Chris Travers , + Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +In-Reply-To: <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Message-ID: <20030826025754.V691@ganymede.hub.org> +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> + <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> + <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1458 +X-Sequence-Number: 47874 + + + +On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: + +> Chris Travers writes: +> > Yes I have. Postgres-r is not a high-availability solution which is +> > capable of transparent failover, +> +> What makes you say that? My understanding is it's supposed to survive +> loss of individual servers. + +How does it play 'catch up' went a server comes back online? + +note that I did go through the 'docs' on how it works, and am/was quite +impressed at what they were doing ... but, if I have a large network, say, +and one group is connecting to ServerA, and another group with ServerB, +what happens when ServerA and ServerB loose network connectivity for any +period of time? How do they re-sync when the network comes back up again? + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 03:46:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55E64D1B8D3 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:46:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 04626-04 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:45:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from cerebro.int-bytecraft.com (unknown [219.93.229.26]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A3BD1B8A5 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:45:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from bytecraft.com.my (home.int-bytecraft.com [127.0.0.1]) + by cerebro.int-bytecraft.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7Q6i4O16998; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:44:16 +0800 +Message-ID: <3F4B02ED.4080704@bytecraft.com.my> +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:49:17 +0800 +From: Ang Chin Han +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Stephan Szabo +Cc: Rhaoni Chiu Pereira , + PostgreSQL Performance +Subject: Re: Query too slow +References: <20030825083343.H90125-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030825083343.H90125-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.1.0 +X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="------------enig5822A8680F096BFD16C2E4ED" +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/332 +X-Sequence-Number: 3148 + +This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) +--------------enig5822A8680F096BFD16C2E4ED +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +Stephan Szabo wrote: + +> Looking at the explain: + +Veering aside a bit, since we usually pinpoint performance problems by +looking at EXPLAIN ANALYZE's differences between the planner's +estimation and actual execution's stats, what's involved in parsing the +EXPLAIN ANALYZE results, and highlighting the places where they are way +different? Bold, underline, or put some asterisks in front of those steps. + +Makes looking at big EXPLAIN ANALYZE trees much easier. + +-- +Linux homer 2.4.18-14 #1 Wed Sep 4 13:35:50 EDT 2002 i686 i686 i386 +GNU/Linux + 2:30pm up 243 days, 5:48, 8 users, load average: 5.52, 5.29, 5.10 + +--------------enig5822A8680F096BFD16C2E4ED +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) +Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org + +iD8DBQE/SwLwNYbTUIgzwfARArG3AKCghYFWM/ukKYCQcXM1swDVeF9eqwCfUU4y ++BJdOjxn5YOslSBfC4m+rQc= +=Nw+o +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--------------enig5822A8680F096BFD16C2E4ED-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 14:53:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B0FD1B8D1 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:52:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 78176-01 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:51:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26711D1B8D0 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:51:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7QHpuek021378 + for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:51:56 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7QHd1bN017932 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:39:01 GMT +From: "Bupp Phillips" +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: What is the fastest way to get a resultset +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 02:18:23 -0700 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 40 +Message-ID: +References: + +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/339 +X-Sequence-Number: 3155 + +Is this something that can be done thru a SQL statement, or are you saying +that I need to develop logic to handle this because the database won't hold +the resultset on the server, but instead sends it all to the client? + +It there a way to get server side cursors with Postgresql like SQLServer has +or is this a limitation that it has? + +Thanks + +"Jeff" wrote in message +news:Pine.BSF.4.44.0308251645360.15800-100000@torgo.978.org... +> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Bupp Phillips wrote: +> +> > +> > I have a table that has 103,000 records in it (record size is about 953 +> > bytes) and when I do a select all (select * from
) it takes a +> > whopping 30 secs for the data to return!! +> > +> > SQLServer on the other hand takes 6 secs, but you can also use what is +> > called a firehose cursor, which will return the data in < 1 sec. +> > +> You probably want a cursor. +> Typically what happens is postgres sends _all_ the data to the client - +> which can be rather substantial. A cursor allows you to say "get me the +> first 1000 records. now the next 1000" - it should get you the speed you +> want. +> +> +> -- +> Jeff Trout +> http://www.jefftrout.com/ +> http://www.stuarthamm.net/ +> +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org +> + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 14:01:30 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540FED1B8B3 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:34:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 94366-04 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:33:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C6A98D1B8B1 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:33:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 18713 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2003 12:34:01 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 26 Aug 2003 12:34:01 -0000 +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:34:01 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/336 +X-Sequence-Number: 3152 + +Here's an interesting situation, and I think it may be just that Sun +stinks. + +I was recently given the go ahead to switch from Informix to Postgres on +one of our properties. (I had dozens of performance comparisons showing +how slow Informix was compared to it and my boss seeing me struggle trying +to make it run fast while Postgres, nearly out of the box, was simply +spanking it.). + + +Well, in order to facilitate things we were going to run pg on a 4 cpu +(ultrasparc ii 400Mhz) sun with 4gb of memory (also the current informix +box. It isn't very loaded). Now I know FreeBSD/Linux is preferred (and +where I do a lot of development and testing). But check this out for +interesting results. + +The Hardware: +Machine A: 4 CPU Sun Ultrasparc II 400Mhz, 4GB mem, 20GB RAID5, Solaris 8 +(32 bit mode) + +Machine B: 2 CPU Pentium II, 450Mhz, 512MB mem, 18GB RAID0 (2 old scsi +disks) Linux 2.4.18 (Stock redhat 8.0) + +The software: PG 7.3.4 compiled myself. (Reading specs from +/opt/sfw/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.9/2.95.3/specs gcc version 2.95.3 +20010315 (release) (The solaris 8 box has no compilers, could this be the +issue?) and (Reading specs from +/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/3.2/specs +Configured with: ../configure --prefix=/usr --mandir=/usr/share/man +--infodir=/u +sr/share/info --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --disable-checking +--host=i +386-redhat-linux --with-system-zlib --enable-__cxa_atexit +Thread model: posix +gcc version 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7)) + +Ok. Maybe the compiler (I'll try installing a newer gcc for sun later +today). + +The PG.conf: +shared_buffers = 2000 +sort_mem = 8192 +effective_cache_size = 32000 +tcpip_sockets = true + +The Schema: + +userprofile: + +userkey | character varying(128) | + displayname | character varying(128) | + displayname_v | boolean | default 'f' + name | character varying(128) | + name_v | boolean | default 'f' + email | character varying(128) | + email_v | boolean | default 'f' + gender | character varying(1) | + gender_v | boolean | default 'f' + country | character varying(64) | + country_v | boolean | default 'f' + zip | character varying(10) | + zip_v | boolean | default 'f' + city | character varying(128) | + city_v | boolean | default 'f' + state | character varying(10) | + state_v | boolean | default 'f' + lang | character varying(2) | + lang_v | boolean | default 'f' + url | character varying(255) | +url_v | boolean | default 'f' + phone | character varying(64) | + phone_v | boolean | default 'f' + phonemobile | character varying(64) | + phonemobile_v | boolean | default 'f' + phonefax | character varying(64) | + phonefax_v | boolean | default 'f' + dob | timestamp with time zone | + dob_v | boolean | default 'f' + interests_v | boolean | default 'f' + description | character varying(255) | + description2 | character varying(255) | + description_v | boolean | default 'f' + +(Yes, I kknow it isn't good - a lot of it is because it is the same schema +I had to use on informix. Convienantly you cannot do much with a textblob +on infomrix, so I have to use big varchar's, but that is a fiffernt +story). + +The magic query: + +select userkey, dob, email, gender, country from imuserprofile +where gender_v and gender='m' +and country_v and country = 'br' +and dob_v = 't' +and dob >= 'now'::timestamptz - '29 years'::interval +and dob <= 'now'::timestamptz - '18 years'::interval +order by dob asc +limit 20 +offset 100 + +(Page 5 of male brazillians, 18-29) + +Now the P2 runs this in about 0.3 seconds, and hte sun box runs it in 1 +second. +Here's the explain analyze's on each: + +P2: +Limit (cost=2484.52..2484.57 rows=20 width=67) (actual +time=377.32..377.41 row +s=20 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=2484.27..2484.74 rows=186 width=67) (actual +time=377.02..377. +21 rows=121 loops=1) + Sort Key: dob + -> Seq Scan on userprofile (cost=0.00..2477.28 rows=186 +width=67) ( +actual time=0.15..350.93 rows=1783 loops=1) + Filter: (gender_v AND (gender = 'm'::character varying) AND +count +ry_v AND (country = 'br'::character varying) AND (dob_v = true) AND (dob +>= '197 +4-08-26 07:13:15.903437-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <= +'1985-08-26 0 +7:13:15.903437-04'::timestamp with time zone)) + Total runtime: 378.21 msec +(6 rows) + +Sun: +Limit (cost=2521.19..2521.24 rows=20 width=67) (actual +time=1041.14..1041.20 r +ows=20 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=2520.94..2521.39 rows=178 width=67) (actual +time=1040.96..104 +1.08 rows=121 loops=1) + Sort Key: dob + -> Seq Scan on userprofile (cost=0.00..2514.28 rows=178 +width=67) ( +actual time=0.37..1014.50 rows=1783 loops=1) + Filter: (gender_v AND (gender = 'm'::character varying) AND +count +ry_v AND (country = 'br'::character varying) AND (dob_v = true) AND (dob +>= '197 +4-08-26 08:21:52.158181-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <= +'1985-08-26 0 +8:21:52.158181-04'::timestamp with time zone)) + Total runtime: 1042.54 msec +(6 rows) + +They are loaded with the exact same dataset - 53k rows, ~10MB +Notice the estimates are roughly the same, but the execution time is +different. + +I don't think it is the IO system, since 10MB will be cached by the OS and +iostat reports no activity on the disks (when running the query many +times over and over and in parellel). it is a simple query.. + +Could it just be that the sun sucks? (And for the record - same schema, +nearly same query (modified for datetime syntax) on informix runs in 3 +seconds). + + + + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 13:48:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D571D1B4F0 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:22:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 07346-06 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:21:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gatekeeper.gmanetwork.com (unknown [202.61.78.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A681D1D153 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:21:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gmanewmedia.com (mailhost.gmanmi.tv [192.168.6.3]) + by gatekeeper.gmanetwork.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h7QDLei10926 + for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:21:40 +0800 +Received: from 192.168.6.40 ([192.168.6.40]) + by gmanewmedia.com (8.11.1/) with ESMTP id h7QD2qo49233 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:03:00 +0800 (PHT) + (envelope-from jerome@gmanmi.tv) +X-RAV-AntiVirus: This e-mail has been scanned for viruses on host: + gmanewmedia.com +From: JM +Reply-To: jerome@gmanmi.tv +Organization: GMANMI +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Best tweak for fast results.. ? +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:42:52 +0800 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308262142.52521.jerome@gmanmi.tv> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/335 +X-Sequence-Number: 3151 + +need input on parameter values on confs... + +our database is getting 1000 transactions/sec on peak periods.. + +sitting on RH 7.3 +2.4.7-10smp +RAM: 1028400 +SWAP: 2040244 + +queries are just simple select statements based on timestamps, varchars... +less on joins... on a 300K rows.. + + +TIA + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 12:48:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C57D1B8A5 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:48:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 41793-04 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:47:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB517D1B574 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:47:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 551A1D674; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:47:52 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 348CE5C10; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:47:52 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:47:52 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Ang Chin Han +Cc: Rhaoni Chiu Pereira , + PostgreSQL Performance +Subject: Re: Query too slow +In-Reply-To: <3F4B02ED.4080704@bytecraft.com.my> +Message-ID: <20030826084326.M30963-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/333 +X-Sequence-Number: 3149 + +On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Ang Chin Han wrote: + +> Stephan Szabo wrote: +> +> > Looking at the explain: +> +> Veering aside a bit, since we usually pinpoint performance problems by +> looking at EXPLAIN ANALYZE's differences between the planner's +> estimation and actual execution's stats, what's involved in parsing the +> EXPLAIN ANALYZE results, and highlighting the places where they are way +> different? Bold, underline, or put some asterisks in front of those steps. + +The hardest part is determining where it matters I think. You can use the +row counts as the base for that, but going from 1 row to 50 is not +necessarily going to be an issue, but it might be if a nested loop is +chosen. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 13:02:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF770D1B8B6 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:01:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 44067-05 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:01:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783A8D1B8AB + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:01:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7QG1W5H027126; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:01:32 -0400 (EDT) +To: Stephan Szabo +Cc: Ang Chin Han , + Rhaoni Chiu Pereira , + PostgreSQL Performance +Subject: Re: Query too slow +In-reply-to: <20030826084326.M30963-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +References: <20030826084326.M30963-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +Comments: In-reply-to Stephan Szabo + message dated "Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:47:52 -0700" +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:01:32 -0400 +Message-ID: <27125.1061913692@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/334 +X-Sequence-Number: 3150 + +Stephan Szabo writes: +> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Ang Chin Han wrote: +>> Veering aside a bit, since we usually pinpoint performance problems by +>> looking at EXPLAIN ANALYZE's differences between the planner's +>> estimation and actual execution's stats, what's involved in parsing the +>> EXPLAIN ANALYZE results, and highlighting the places where they are way +>> different? Bold, underline, or put some asterisks in front of those steps. + +> The hardest part is determining where it matters I think. You can use the +> row counts as the base for that, but going from 1 row to 50 is not +> necessarily going to be an issue, but it might be if a nested loop is +> chosen. + +We've been chatting about this idea among the Red Hat group. The RHDB +Visual Explain tool (get it at http://sources.redhat.com/rhdb/) already +computes the percent of total runtime represented by each plan node. +It seems like we could highlight nodes based on a large difference +between estimated and actual percentage, or just highlight the nodes +that are more than X percent of the runtime. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 14:12:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0987D1B8AA + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:12:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69731-02 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:11:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38AE8D1B8A9 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:11:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030826171135.ZOSL11854.lakemtao02.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:11:35 -0400 +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Best tweak for fast results.. ? +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL General ML +In-Reply-To: <200308262142.52521.jerome@gmanmi.tv> +References: <200308262142.52521.jerome@gmanmi.tv> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1061917901.18108.109.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:11:41 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1385 +X-Sequence-Number: 47801 + +On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 08:42, JM wrote: +> need input on parameter values on confs... +> +> our database is getting 1000 transactions/sec on peak periods.. +> +> sitting on RH 7.3 +> 2.4.7-10smp +> RAM: 1028400 +> SWAP: 2040244 +> +> queries are just simple select statements based on timestamps, varchars... +> less on joins... on a 300K rows.. + +Could it be that 1000tps is as good as your h/w can do? You didn't +mention what kind and speed of CPU(s), SCSI-or-IDE controller(s) and +type/speed of disk(s) you have. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Oh, great altar of passive entertainment, bestow upon me thy +discordant images at such speed as to render linear thought impossible" +Calvin, regarding TV + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 14:21:19 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF47D1B8A4 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:20:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 70215-06 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:19:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from snoopy.oit.edu (snoopy.OIT.EDU [140.211.135.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0E5D1B8AD + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:19:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fireserve.net (purvine-141-62.oit.edu [140.211.141.62]) + by snoopy.oit.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9/OIT-4.0) with ESMTP id h7QHJmWD018332; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:19:48 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F4B9808.1080804@fireserve.net> +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:25:28 -0700 +From: Dennis Gearon +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, ru, es-mx +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: PgSQL General ML +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Best tweak for fast results.. ? +References: <200308262142.52521.jerome@gmanmi.tv> + <1061917901.18108.109.camel@haggis> +In-Reply-To: <1061917901.18108.109.camel@haggis> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1387 +X-Sequence-Number: 47803 + +actually, isin't 1000 tps pretty good? + +Ron Johnson wrote: + +>On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 08:42, JM wrote: +> +> +>>need input on parameter values on confs... +>> +>>our database is getting 1000 transactions/sec on peak periods.. +>> +>>sitting on RH 7.3 +>>2.4.7-10smp +>>RAM: 1028400 +>>SWAP: 2040244 +>> +>>queries are just simple select statements based on timestamps, varchars... +>>less on joins... on a 300K rows.. +>> +>> +> +>Could it be that 1000tps is as good as your h/w can do? You didn't +>mention what kind and speed of CPU(s), SCSI-or-IDE controller(s) and +>type/speed of disk(s) you have. +> +> +> + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 14:45:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B53D1B8A9 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:44:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 75314-09 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:44:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net + [194.217.242.89]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F149D1B8AB + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:44:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mwynhau.demon.co.uk ([193.237.186.96] + helo=mainbox.archonet.com) + by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) + id 19rhrh-0000E1-0V; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:44:22 +0100 +Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 99F291595F; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:44:20 +0100 (BST) +Received: from client17.archonet.com (client17.archonet.com [192.168.1.17]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id E602F15955; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:44:19 +0100 (BST) +From: Richard Huxton +To: jerome@gmanmi.tv, PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Best tweak for fast results.. ? +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:44:19 +0100 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +References: <200308262142.52521.jerome@gmanmi.tv> +In-Reply-To: <200308262142.52521.jerome@gmanmi.tv> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308261844.19268.dev@archonet.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/337 +X-Sequence-Number: 3153 + +On Tuesday 26 August 2003 14:42, JM wrote: +> need input on parameter values on confs... +> +> our database is getting 1000 transactions/sec on peak periods.. +> +> sitting on RH 7.3 +> 2.4.7-10smp +> RAM: 1028400 +> SWAP: 2040244 +> +> queries are just simple select statements based on timestamps, varchars... +> less on joins... on a 300K rows.. + +Assuming you're getting good query plans (check the output of EXPLAIN +ANALYSE)... + +Start by checking the output of vmstat/iostat during busy periods - this will +tell you whether CPU/IO/RAM is the bottleneck. + +There is a good starter for tuning PG at: +http://www.varlena.com/varlena/GeneralBits/Tidbits/index.php + +Assuming your rows aren't too wide, they're probably mostly cached by Linux, +so you probably don't want to overdo the shared buffers/sort memory and make +sure the effective cache size is accurate. +-- + Richard Huxton + Archonet Ltd + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 14:49:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36FD1D1B8E2 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:48:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 76994-03 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:48:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail2.dbitech.ca (radius.wavefire.com [64.141.13.252]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EF1F4D1B8C8 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:48:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 15693 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2003 18:10:19 -0000 +Received: from dbitech.wavefire.com (HELO dbitech) (darcy@64.141.15.253) + by radius.wavefire.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 2003 18:10:19 -0000 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Darcy Buskermolen +Organization: Wavefire Technologies Corp. +To: Jeff , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:48:10 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308261048.10817.darcy@wavefire.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/338 +X-Sequence-Number: 3154 + +I spoke with my SUN admin, and this is what he had to say about what you ar= +e=20 +seeing. + +Sun gear is known to show a lower than Intel performance on light loads, re= +run=20 +your test with 100 concurrent users (queries) and see what happens. Also h= +e=20 +recommends installing a 64bit version of Solaris, the 32bit robs a lot of= +=20 +performance as well. + + +On Tuesday 26 August 2003 05:34, Jeff wrote: +> Here's an interesting situation, and I think it may be just that Sun +> stinks. +> +> I was recently given the go ahead to switch from Informix to Postgres on +> one of our properties. (I had dozens of performance comparisons showing +> how slow Informix was compared to it and my boss seeing me struggle trying +> to make it run fast while Postgres, nearly out of the box, was simply +> spanking it.). +> +> +> Well, in order to facilitate things we were going to run pg on a 4 cpu +> (ultrasparc ii 400Mhz) sun with 4gb of memory (also the current informix +> box. It isn't very loaded). Now I know FreeBSD/Linux is preferred (and +> where I do a lot of development and testing). But check this out for +> interesting results. +> +> The Hardware: +> Machine A: 4 CPU Sun Ultrasparc II 400Mhz, 4GB mem, 20GB RAID5, Solaris 8 +> (32 bit mode) +> +> Machine B: 2 CPU Pentium II, 450Mhz, 512MB mem, 18GB RAID0 (2 old scsi +> disks) Linux 2.4.18 (Stock redhat 8.0) +> +> The software: PG 7.3.4 compiled myself. (Reading specs from +> /opt/sfw/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.9/2.95.3/specs gcc version 2.95.3 +> 20010315 (release) (The solaris 8 box has no compilers, could this be the +> issue?) and (Reading specs from +> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/3.2/specs +> Configured with: ../configure --prefix=3D/usr --mandir=3D/usr/share/man +> --infodir=3D/u +> sr/share/info --enable-shared --enable-threads=3Dposix --disable-checking +> --host=3Di +> 386-redhat-linux --with-system-zlib --enable-__cxa_atexit +> Thread model: posix +> gcc version 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7)) +> +> Ok. Maybe the compiler (I'll try installing a newer gcc for sun later +> today). +> +> The PG.conf: +> shared_buffers =3D 2000 +> sort_mem =3D 8192 +> effective_cache_size =3D 32000 +> tcpip_sockets =3D true +> +> The Schema: +> +> userprofile: +> +> userkey | character varying(128) | +> displayname | character varying(128) | +> displayname_v | boolean | default 'f' +> name | character varying(128) | +> name_v | boolean | default 'f' +> email | character varying(128) | +> email_v | boolean | default 'f' +> gender | character varying(1) | +> gender_v | boolean | default 'f' +> country | character varying(64) | +> country_v | boolean | default 'f' +> zip | character varying(10) | +> zip_v | boolean | default 'f' +> city | character varying(128) | +> city_v | boolean | default 'f' +> state | character varying(10) | +> state_v | boolean | default 'f' +> lang | character varying(2) | +> lang_v | boolean | default 'f' +> url | character varying(255) | +> url_v | boolean | default 'f' +> phone | character varying(64) | +> phone_v | boolean | default 'f' +> phonemobile | character varying(64) | +> phonemobile_v | boolean | default 'f' +> phonefax | character varying(64) | +> phonefax_v | boolean | default 'f' +> dob | timestamp with time zone | +> dob_v | boolean | default 'f' +> interests_v | boolean | default 'f' +> description | character varying(255) | +> description2 | character varying(255) | +> description_v | boolean | default 'f' +> +> (Yes, I kknow it isn't good - a lot of it is because it is the same schema +> I had to use on informix. Convienantly you cannot do much with a textblob +> on infomrix, so I have to use big varchar's, but that is a fiffernt +> story). +> +> The magic query: +> +> select userkey, dob, email, gender, country from imuserprofile +> where gender_v and gender=3D'm' +> and country_v and country =3D 'br' +> and dob_v =3D 't' +> and dob >=3D 'now'::timestamptz - '29 years'::interval +> and dob <=3D 'now'::timestamptz - '18 years'::interval +> order by dob asc +> limit 20 +> offset 100 +> +> (Page 5 of male brazillians, 18-29) +> +> Now the P2 runs this in about 0.3 seconds, and hte sun box runs it in 1 +> second. +> Here's the explain analyze's on each: +> +> P2: +> Limit (cost=3D2484.52..2484.57 rows=3D20 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D377.32..377.41 row +> s=3D20 loops=3D1) +> -> Sort (cost=3D2484.27..2484.74 rows=3D186 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D377.02..377. +> 21 rows=3D121 loops=3D1) +> Sort Key: dob +> -> Seq Scan on userprofile (cost=3D0.00..2477.28 rows=3D186 +> width=3D67) ( +> actual time=3D0.15..350.93 rows=3D1783 loops=3D1) +> Filter: (gender_v AND (gender =3D 'm'::character varying) = +AND +> count +> ry_v AND (country =3D 'br'::character varying) AND (dob_v =3D true) AND (= +dob +> +> >=3D '197 +> +> 4-08-26 07:13:15.903437-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <=3D +> '1985-08-26 0 +> 7:13:15.903437-04'::timestamp with time zone)) +> Total runtime: 378.21 msec +> (6 rows) +> +> Sun: +> Limit (cost=3D2521.19..2521.24 rows=3D20 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D1041.14..1041.20 r +> ows=3D20 loops=3D1) +> -> Sort (cost=3D2520.94..2521.39 rows=3D178 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D1040.96..104 +> 1.08 rows=3D121 loops=3D1) +> Sort Key: dob +> -> Seq Scan on userprofile (cost=3D0.00..2514.28 rows=3D178 +> width=3D67) ( +> actual time=3D0.37..1014.50 rows=3D1783 loops=3D1) +> Filter: (gender_v AND (gender =3D 'm'::character varying) = +AND +> count +> ry_v AND (country =3D 'br'::character varying) AND (dob_v =3D true) AND (= +dob +> +> >=3D '197 +> +> 4-08-26 08:21:52.158181-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <=3D +> '1985-08-26 0 +> 8:21:52.158181-04'::timestamp with time zone)) +> Total runtime: 1042.54 msec +> (6 rows) +> +> They are loaded with the exact same dataset - 53k rows, ~10MB +> Notice the estimates are roughly the same, but the execution time is +> different. +> +> I don't think it is the IO system, since 10MB will be cached by the OS and +> iostat reports no activity on the disks (when running the query many +> times over and over and in parellel). it is a simple query.. +> +> Could it just be that the sun sucks? (And for the record - same schema, +> nearly same query (modified for datetime syntax) on informix runs in 3 +> seconds). + +--=20 +Darcy Buskermolen +Wavefire Technologies Corp. +ph: 250.717.0200 +fx: 250.763.1759 +http://www.wavefire.com + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 15:05:15 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14EDCD1B8AB + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:04:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80764-03 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:03:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail2.dbitech.ca (radius.wavefire.com [64.141.13.252]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 274A3D1B8BB + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:03:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 16564 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2003 18:25:57 -0000 +Received: from dbitech.wavefire.com (HELO dbitech) (darcy@64.141.15.253) + by radius.wavefire.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 2003 18:25:57 -0000 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Darcy Buskermolen +Organization: Wavefire Technologies Corp. +To: Jeff , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:03:48 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308261103.48539.darcy@wavefire.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/340 +X-Sequence-Number: 3156 + +Also, after having taken another look at this, you aren't preforming the sa= +me=20 +query on both datasets, so you can't expect them to generate the same=20 +results, or the same query plans, or even comparable times. Please retry yo= +ur=20 +tests with identical queries , specify the dates, don;t use a function like= +=20 +now() to retrieve them. + + +On Tuesday 26 August 2003 05:34, Jeff wrote: +> Here's an interesting situation, and I think it may be just that Sun +> stinks. +> +> I was recently given the go ahead to switch from Informix to Postgres on +> one of our properties. (I had dozens of performance comparisons showing +> how slow Informix was compared to it and my boss seeing me struggle trying +> to make it run fast while Postgres, nearly out of the box, was simply +> spanking it.). +> +> +> Well, in order to facilitate things we were going to run pg on a 4 cpu +> (ultrasparc ii 400Mhz) sun with 4gb of memory (also the current informix +> box. It isn't very loaded). Now I know FreeBSD/Linux is preferred (and +> where I do a lot of development and testing). But check this out for +> interesting results. +> +> The Hardware: +> Machine A: 4 CPU Sun Ultrasparc II 400Mhz, 4GB mem, 20GB RAID5, Solaris 8 +> (32 bit mode) +> +> Machine B: 2 CPU Pentium II, 450Mhz, 512MB mem, 18GB RAID0 (2 old scsi +> disks) Linux 2.4.18 (Stock redhat 8.0) +> +> The software: PG 7.3.4 compiled myself. (Reading specs from +> /opt/sfw/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.9/2.95.3/specs gcc version 2.95.3 +> 20010315 (release) (The solaris 8 box has no compilers, could this be the +> issue?) and (Reading specs from +> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/3.2/specs +> Configured with: ../configure --prefix=3D/usr --mandir=3D/usr/share/man +> --infodir=3D/u +> sr/share/info --enable-shared --enable-threads=3Dposix --disable-checking +> --host=3Di +> 386-redhat-linux --with-system-zlib --enable-__cxa_atexit +> Thread model: posix +> gcc version 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7)) +> +> Ok. Maybe the compiler (I'll try installing a newer gcc for sun later +> today). +> +> The PG.conf: +> shared_buffers =3D 2000 +> sort_mem =3D 8192 +> effective_cache_size =3D 32000 +> tcpip_sockets =3D true +> +> The Schema: +> +> userprofile: +> +> userkey | character varying(128) | +> displayname | character varying(128) | +> displayname_v | boolean | default 'f' +> name | character varying(128) | +> name_v | boolean | default 'f' +> email | character varying(128) | +> email_v | boolean | default 'f' +> gender | character varying(1) | +> gender_v | boolean | default 'f' +> country | character varying(64) | +> country_v | boolean | default 'f' +> zip | character varying(10) | +> zip_v | boolean | default 'f' +> city | character varying(128) | +> city_v | boolean | default 'f' +> state | character varying(10) | +> state_v | boolean | default 'f' +> lang | character varying(2) | +> lang_v | boolean | default 'f' +> url | character varying(255) | +> url_v | boolean | default 'f' +> phone | character varying(64) | +> phone_v | boolean | default 'f' +> phonemobile | character varying(64) | +> phonemobile_v | boolean | default 'f' +> phonefax | character varying(64) | +> phonefax_v | boolean | default 'f' +> dob | timestamp with time zone | +> dob_v | boolean | default 'f' +> interests_v | boolean | default 'f' +> description | character varying(255) | +> description2 | character varying(255) | +> description_v | boolean | default 'f' +> +> (Yes, I kknow it isn't good - a lot of it is because it is the same schema +> I had to use on informix. Convienantly you cannot do much with a textblob +> on infomrix, so I have to use big varchar's, but that is a fiffernt +> story). +> +> The magic query: +> +> select userkey, dob, email, gender, country from imuserprofile +> where gender_v and gender=3D'm' +> and country_v and country =3D 'br' +> and dob_v =3D 't' +> and dob >=3D 'now'::timestamptz - '29 years'::interval +> and dob <=3D 'now'::timestamptz - '18 years'::interval +> order by dob asc +> limit 20 +> offset 100 +> +> (Page 5 of male brazillians, 18-29) +> +> Now the P2 runs this in about 0.3 seconds, and hte sun box runs it in 1 +> second. +> Here's the explain analyze's on each: +> +> P2: +> Limit (cost=3D2484.52..2484.57 rows=3D20 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D377.32..377.41 row +> s=3D20 loops=3D1) +> -> Sort (cost=3D2484.27..2484.74 rows=3D186 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D377.02..377. +> 21 rows=3D121 loops=3D1) +> Sort Key: dob +> -> Seq Scan on userprofile (cost=3D0.00..2477.28 rows=3D186 +> width=3D67) ( +> actual time=3D0.15..350.93 rows=3D1783 loops=3D1) +> Filter: (gender_v AND (gender =3D 'm'::character varying) = +AND +> count +> ry_v AND (country =3D 'br'::character varying) AND (dob_v =3D true) AND (= +dob +> +> >=3D '197 +> +> 4-08-26 07:13:15.903437-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <=3D +> '1985-08-26 0 +> 7:13:15.903437-04'::timestamp with time zone)) +> Total runtime: 378.21 msec +> (6 rows) +> +> Sun: +> Limit (cost=3D2521.19..2521.24 rows=3D20 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D1041.14..1041.20 r +> ows=3D20 loops=3D1) +> -> Sort (cost=3D2520.94..2521.39 rows=3D178 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D1040.96..104 +> 1.08 rows=3D121 loops=3D1) +> Sort Key: dob +> -> Seq Scan on userprofile (cost=3D0.00..2514.28 rows=3D178 +> width=3D67) ( +> actual time=3D0.37..1014.50 rows=3D1783 loops=3D1) +> Filter: (gender_v AND (gender =3D 'm'::character varying) = +AND +> count +> ry_v AND (country =3D 'br'::character varying) AND (dob_v =3D true) AND (= +dob +> +> >=3D '197 +> +> 4-08-26 08:21:52.158181-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <=3D +> '1985-08-26 0 +> 8:21:52.158181-04'::timestamp with time zone)) +> Total runtime: 1042.54 msec +> (6 rows) +> +> They are loaded with the exact same dataset - 53k rows, ~10MB +> Notice the estimates are roughly the same, but the execution time is +> different. +> +> I don't think it is the IO system, since 10MB will be cached by the OS and +> iostat reports no activity on the disks (when running the query many +> times over and over and in parellel). it is a simple query.. +> +> Could it just be that the sun sucks? (And for the record - same schema, +> nearly same query (modified for datetime syntax) on informix runs in 3 +> seconds). + +--=20 +Darcy Buskermolen +Wavefire Technologies Corp. +ph: 250.717.0200 +fx: 250.763.1759 +http://www.wavefire.com + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 15:29:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07626D1B897 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:27:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 92056-01 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:26:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from home.samurai.com (home.samurai.com [205.207.28.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA48ED1B8B7 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:26:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by home.samurai.com (Postfix, from userid 1014) + id 409C92621E; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:26:24 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:26:24 -0400 +From: Neil Conway +To: Bupp Phillips +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: What is the fastest way to get a resultset +Message-ID: <20030826182624.GF64198@home.samurai.com> +References: + + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/341 +X-Sequence-Number: 3157 + +On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 02:18:23AM -0700, Bupp Phillips wrote: +> It there a way to get server side cursors with Postgresql like SQLServer has +> or is this a limitation that it has? + +http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/static/sql-declare.html +http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/static/sql-fetch.html + +-Neil + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 15:42:44 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91FCAD1B8B4 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:42:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 96370-01 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:41:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F06B6D1B8D0 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:41:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 20153 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2003 18:41:36 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 26 Aug 2003 18:41:36 -0000 +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:41:36 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Darcy Buskermolen +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +In-Reply-To: <200308261103.48539.darcy@wavefire.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/342 +X-Sequence-Number: 3158 + +On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Darcy Buskermolen wrote: + +> Also, after having taken another look at this, you aren't preforming the same +> query on both datasets, so you can't expect them to generate the same +> results, or the same query plans, or even comparable times. Please retry your +> tests with identical queries , specify the dates, don;t use a function like +> now() to retrieve them. +> + +Given what you said in the previous email and this one here's some new +information. I redid the query to use a static starting time and I ran +19 beaters in parallel. After I send this mail out I'll try it with 40. + +New Query: + +select userkey, dob, email, gender, country from userprofile +where gender_v and gender='m' + and country_v and country = 'br' + and dob_v + and dob >= '2003-08-26'::timestamptz - '29 +years'::interval + and dob <= '2003-08-26'::timestamptz - '18 years'::interval +order by dob asc +limit 20 +offset 100 + +Explain Analyze's: (basically the same) +Sun: + Limit (cost=2390.05..2390.10 rows=20 width=67) (actual +time=1098.34..1098.39 rows=20 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=2389.80..2390.24 rows=178 width=67) (actual +time=1098.16..1098.28 rows=121 loops=1) + Sort Key: dob + -> Seq Scan on imuserprofile (cost=0.00..2383.14 rows=178 +width=67) (actual time=0.38..1068.94 rows=1783 loops=1) + Filter: (gender_v AND (gender = 'm'::character varying) AND +country_v AND (country = 'br'::character varying) AND dob_v AND (dob >= +'1974-08-26 00:00:00-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <= +'1985-08-26 00:00:00-04'::timestamp with time zone)) + Total runtime: 1099.93 msec +(6 rows) + + +p2 + + Limit (cost=2353.38..2353.43 rows=20 width=67) (actual +time=371.75..371.83 rows=20 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=2353.13..2353.60 rows=186 width=67) (actual +time=371.46..371.63 rows=121 loops=1) + Sort Key: dob + -> Seq Scan on imuserprofile (cost=0.00..2346.14 rows=186 +width=67) (actual time=0.17..345.53 rows=1783 loops=1) + Filter: (gender_v AND (gender = 'm'::character varying) AND +country_v AND (country = 'br'::character varying) AND dob_v AND (dob >= +'1974-08-26 00:00:00-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <= +'1985-08-26 00:00:00-04'::timestamp with time zone)) + Total runtime: 372.63 msec +(6 rows) + + +I ran this query 100 times per beater (no prepared queries) and ran +19 beaters in parellel. + +P2 Machine: 345sec avg +Sun: 565sec avg + + + +I know solaris/sun isn't the preferred pg platform, and we have plenty of +capicty even with these numbers, I just find it a little suprising the +speed difference. + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 16:03:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59967D1B8C3 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:02:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01238-04 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:02:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail2.dbitech.ca (radius.wavefire.com [64.141.13.252]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CA3F3D1B8A5 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:02:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 20326 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2003 19:24:05 -0000 +Received: from dbitech.wavefire.com (HELO dbitech) (darcy@64.141.15.253) + by radius.wavefire.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 2003 19:24:05 -0000 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +From: Darcy Buskermolen +Organization: Wavefire Technologies Corp. +To: Jeff +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:01:55 -0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3 +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308261201.55733.darcy@wavefire.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/343 +X-Sequence-Number: 3159 + +I'm still seeing differences in the planner estimates, have you run a VACUU= +M=20 +ANALYZE prior to running these tests? + +Also, are the disk subsystems in these 2 systems the same? You may be seein= +g=20 +some discrepancies in things spindle speed, U160 vs U320, throughput on=20 +specific RAID controlers, different blocksize, ect. + + +On Tuesday 26 August 2003 11:41, Jeff wrote: +> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Darcy Buskermolen wrote: +> > Also, after having taken another look at this, you aren't preforming the +> > same query on both datasets, so you can't expect them to generate the +> > same results, or the same query plans, or even comparable times. Please +> > retry your tests with identical queries , specify the dates, don;t use a +> > function like now() to retrieve them. +> +> Given what you said in the previous email and this one here's some new +> information. I redid the query to use a static starting time and I ran +> 19 beaters in parallel. After I send this mail out I'll try it with 40. +> +> New Query: +> +> select userkey, dob, email, gender, country from userprofile +> where gender_v and gender=3D'm' +> and country_v and country =3D 'br' +> and dob_v +> and dob >=3D '2003-08-26'::timestamptz - '29 +> years'::interval +> and dob <=3D '2003-08-26'::timestamptz - '18 years'::interval +> order by dob asc +> limit 20 +> offset 100 +> +> Explain Analyze's: (basically the same) +> Sun: +> Limit (cost=3D2390.05..2390.10 rows=3D20 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D1098.34..1098.39 rows=3D20 loops=3D1) +> -> Sort (cost=3D2389.80..2390.24 rows=3D178 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D1098.16..1098.28 rows=3D121 loops=3D1) +> Sort Key: dob +> -> Seq Scan on imuserprofile (cost=3D0.00..2383.14 rows=3D178 +> width=3D67) (actual time=3D0.38..1068.94 rows=3D1783 loops=3D1) +> Filter: (gender_v AND (gender =3D 'm'::character varying) = +AND +> country_v AND (country =3D 'br'::character varying) AND dob_v AND (dob >= +=3D +> '1974-08-26 00:00:00-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <=3D +> '1985-08-26 00:00:00-04'::timestamp with time zone)) +> Total runtime: 1099.93 msec +> (6 rows) +> +> +> p2 +> +> Limit (cost=3D2353.38..2353.43 rows=3D20 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D371.75..371.83 rows=3D20 loops=3D1) +> -> Sort (cost=3D2353.13..2353.60 rows=3D186 width=3D67) (actual +> time=3D371.46..371.63 rows=3D121 loops=3D1) +> Sort Key: dob +> -> Seq Scan on imuserprofile (cost=3D0.00..2346.14 rows=3D186 +> width=3D67) (actual time=3D0.17..345.53 rows=3D1783 loops=3D1) +> Filter: (gender_v AND (gender =3D 'm'::character varying) = +AND +> country_v AND (country =3D 'br'::character varying) AND dob_v AND (dob >= +=3D +> '1974-08-26 00:00:00-04'::timestamp with time zone) AND (dob <=3D +> '1985-08-26 00:00:00-04'::timestamp with time zone)) +> Total runtime: 372.63 msec +> (6 rows) +> +> +> I ran this query 100 times per beater (no prepared queries) and ran +> 19 beaters in parellel. +> +> P2 Machine: 345sec avg +> Sun: 565sec avg +> +> +> +> I know solaris/sun isn't the preferred pg platform, and we have plenty of +> capicty even with these numbers, I just find it a little suprising the +> speed difference. + +--=20 +Darcy Buskermolen +Wavefire Technologies Corp. +ph: 250.717.0200 +fx: 250.763.1759 +http://www.wavefire.com + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 16:07:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 740C8D1B8B4 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:05:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 99833-10 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:05:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C384D1B8A5 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:05:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 20350 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2003 19:05:12 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 26 Aug 2003 19:05:12 -0000 +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:05:12 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Darcy Buskermolen +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +In-Reply-To: <200308261201.55733.darcy@wavefire.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/344 +X-Sequence-Number: 3160 + +On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Darcy Buskermolen wrote: + +> I'm still seeing differences in the planner estimates, have you run a VACUUM +> ANALYZE prior to running these tests? +> +I did. I shall retry that.. but the numbers (the cost estimates) are +pretty close on both. the actual times are very different. + +> Also, are the disk subsystems in these 2 systems the same? You may be seeing +> some discrepancies in things spindle speed, U160 vs U320, throughput on +> specific RAID controlers, different blocksize, ect. +> + +As I said in my first email IO isn't the problem here - the data set is +small enough that it is all cached (~10MB). iostat reports 0 activity on +the disks on both the sun and p2. + +and I just ran teh test again with 40 clients: 730s for hte p2, 1100 for +the sun. (0% idle on both of them, no IO). I think the next I may try is +recompiling with a newer gcc. + + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 16:43:27 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843C1D1B8BD + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:38:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 13415-09 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:37:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from home.samurai.com (home.samurai.com [205.207.28.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08628D1B8AD + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:37:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by home.samurai.com (Postfix, from userid 1014) + id 964B42622B; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:37:29 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:37:29 -0400 +From: Neil Conway +To: Jeff +Cc: Darcy Buskermolen , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +Message-ID: <20030826193729.GG64198@home.samurai.com> +References: <200308261201.55733.darcy@wavefire.com> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/345 +X-Sequence-Number: 3161 + +On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 03:05:12PM -0400, Jeff wrote: +> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Darcy Buskermolen wrote: +> > I'm still seeing differences in the planner estimates, have you run a VACUUM +> > ANALYZE prior to running these tests? +> > +> I did. I shall retry that.. but the numbers (the cost estimates) are +> pretty close on both. the actual times are very different. + +I don't see why you need to bother, the query plans & cost estimates +are similar enough I doubt that's the problem. + +> As I said in my first email IO isn't the problem here - the data set is +> small enough that it is all cached (~10MB). iostat reports 0 activity on +> the disks on both the sun and p2. + +Would it be possible to get a profile (e.g. gprof output) for a postgres +backend executing the query on the Sun machine? + +-Neil + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 00:13:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75895D1B56C + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:13:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 62676-02 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:12:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E239D1B8B3 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:12:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7QMBPxD014542; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:11:26 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:10:35 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: JM +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Best tweak for fast results.. ? +In-Reply-To: <200308262142.52521.jerome@gmanmi.tv> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner-ihs-com: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck-ihs-com: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/381 +X-Sequence-Number: 3197 + +On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, JM wrote: + +> need input on parameter values on confs... +> +> our database is getting 1000 transactions/sec on peak periods.. +> +> sitting on RH 7.3 +> 2.4.7-10smp +> RAM: 1028400 +> SWAP: 2040244 + +1: Upgrade your kernel. 2.4.7 on RH3 was updated to 2.4.18-24 in March, +and the 2.4.18 kernel is MUCH faster and has many bugs squashed. + +2: Upgrade to the latest stable version of postgresql, 7.3.4 + +3: Make sure your kernels file-nr settings, and shm settings are big +enough to handle load. + +4: Edit the $PGDATA/postgresql.conf file to reflect all that extra cache +you've got etc.... + +shared_buffers = 5000 +sort_mem = 16384 +effective_cache_size = (size of cache/buffer mem divided by 8192) + +5: Look at moving WAL to it's own spindle(s), as it is often the choke +point when doing lots of transactions. + +6: Look at using more drives in a RAID 1+0 array for the data (as well as +a seperate one for WAL if you can afford it.) + +7: Make sure your drives are mounted noatime. + +8: If you don't mind living dangerously, or the data can be reproduced +from source files (i.e. catastrophic failure of your data set won't set +you back) look at both mounting the drives async (the default for linux, +slightly dangerous) and turning fsync off (quite dangerous, in case of +crashed hardware / OS, you very well might lose data. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 22:39:30 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC93D1B8AB + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:35:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17324-02 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:35:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 692C8D1B8A5 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:35:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 17552 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2003 01:35:13 -0000 +Received: from dsl-217-155-239-50.zen.co.uk (217.155.239.50) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2003 01:35:13 -0000 +Subject: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: matt +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: +Message-Id: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) +Date: 27 Aug 2003 02:35:13 +0100 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/346 +X-Sequence-Number: 3162 + +I'm wondering if the good people out there could perhaps give me some +pointers on suitable hardware to solve an upcoming performance issue. +I've never really dealt with these kinds of loads before, so any +experience you guys have would be invaluable. Apologies in advance for +the amount of info below... + +My app is likely to come under some serious load in the next 6 months, +but the increase will be broadly predictable, so there is time to throw +hardware at the problem. + +Currently I have a ~1GB DB, with the largest (and most commonly accessed +and updated) two tables having 150,000 and 50,000 rows. + +A typical user interaction with the system involves about 15 +single-table selects, 5 selects with joins or subqueries, 3 inserts, and +3 updates. The current hardware probably (based on benchmarking and +profiling) tops out at about 300 inserts/updates *or* 2500 selects per +second. + +There are multiple indexes on each table that updates & inserts happen +on. These indexes are necessary to provide adequate select performance. + +Current hardware/software: +Quad 700MHz PIII Xeon/1MB cache +3GB RAM +RAID 10 over 4 18GB/10,000rpm drives +128MB battery backed controller cache with write-back enabled +Redhat 7.3, kernel 2.4.20 +Postgres 7.2.3 (stock redhat issue) + +I need to increase the overall performance by a factor of 10, while at +the same time the DB size increases by a factor of 50. e.g. 3000 +inserts/updates or 25,000 selects per second, over a 25GB database with +most used tables of 5,000,000 and 1,000,000 rows. + +Notably, the data is very time-sensitive, so the active dataset at any +hour is almost certainly going to be more on the order of 5GB than 25GB +(plus I'll want all the indexes in RAM of course). + +Also, and importantly, the load comes but one hour per week, so buying a +Starfire isn't a real option, as it'd just sit idle the rest of the +time. I'm particularly interested in keeping the cost down, as I'm a +shareholder in the company! + +So what do I need? Can anyone who has (or has ever had) that kind of +load in production offer any pointers, anecdotes, etc? Any theoretical +musings also more than welcome. Comments upon my sanity will be +referred to my doctor. + +If the best price/performance option is a second hand 32-cpu Alpha +running VMS I'd be happy to go that way ;-) + +Many thanks for reading this far. + +Matt + + + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Tue Aug 26 22:48:58 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AFED1B8C0 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:45:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18277-05 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:44:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com + [216.136.174.115]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 173DED1B523 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:44:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pcp01341166pcs.wilog301.pa.comcast.net (HELO + europa.janwieck.net) (janwieck@68.80.245.191 with login) + by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2003 01:44:35 -0000 +Received: from Yahoo.com (ganymed.janwieck.net [192.168.192.17]) + (authenticated) + by europa.janwieck.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7R1iQ621159; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:44:29 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4C0CAE.3030901@Yahoo.com> +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:43:10 -0400 +From: Jan Wieck +Organization: Unorganized +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Chris Travers +Cc: Tom Lane , Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> + <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> + <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> + <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <3F4A8A7D.30308@travelamericas.com> +In-Reply-To: <3F4A8A7D.30308@travelamericas.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1424 +X-Sequence-Number: 47840 + +WARNING: This is getting long ... + +Postgres-R is a very interesting and inspiring idea. And I've been +kicking that concept around for a while now. What I don't like about it +is that it requires fundamental changes in the lock mechanism and that +it is based on the assumption of very low lock conflict. + + +In Postgres-R a committing transaction sends it's workset (WS - a list +of all updates done in this transaction) to the group communication +system (GC). The GC guarantees total order, meaning that all nodes will +receive all WSs in the same order, no matter how they have been sent. + +If a node receives back it's own WS before any error occured, it goes +ahead and finalizes the commit. If it receives a foreign WS, it has to +apply the whole WS and commit it before it can process anything else. If +now a local transaction, in progress or while waiting for it's WS to +come back, holds a lock that is required to process such remote WS, the +local transaction needs to be aborted to unlock it's resources ... it +lost the total order race. + + +Postgres-R requires that all remote WSs are applied and committed before +a local transaction can commit. Otherwise it couldn't correctly detect a +lock conflict. So there will not be any read ahead. And since the total +order really counts here, it cannot apply any two remote WSs in +parallel, a race condition could possibly exist and a later WS in the +total order runs faster and locks up a previous one, so we have to +squeeze all remote WSs through one single replication work process. And +all the locally parallel executed transactions that wait for their WSs +to come back have to wait until that poor little worker is done with the +whole pile. Bye bye concurrency. And I don't know how the GC will deal +with the backlog either. Could well choke on it. + +I do not see how this will scale well in a multi-SMP-system cluster. At +least the serialization of WSs will become a horror if there is +significant lock contention like in a standard TPC-C on the district row +containing the order number counter. I don't know for sure, but I +suspect that with this kind of bottleneck, Postgres-R will have to +rollback more than 50% of it's transactions when there are more than 4 +nodes under heavy load (like in a benchmark run). That will suck ... + + +But ... initially I said that it is an inspiring concept ... soooo ... + +I am currently hacking around with some C+PL/TclU+Spread constructs that +might form a rude kind of prototype creature. + +My changes to the Postgres-R concept are that there will be as many +replicating slave processes as there are in summary masters out in the +cluster ... yes, it will try to utilize all the CPU's in the cluster! +For failover reliability, A committing transaction will hold before +finalizing the commit and send it's "I'm ready" to the GC. Every +replicator that reaches the same state send's "I'm ready" too. Spread +guarantees in SAFE_MESS mode that messages are delivered to all nodes in +a group or that at least LEAVE/DISCONNECT messages are deliverd before. +So if a node receives more than 50% of "I'm ready", there would be a +very small gap where multiple nodes have to fail in the same split +second so that the majority of nodes does NOT commit. A node that +reported "I'm ready" but lost more than 50% of the cluster before +committing has to rollback and rejoin or wait for operator intervention. + +Now the idea is to split up the communication into GC distribution +groups per transaction. So working master backends and associated +replication backends will join/leave a unique group for every +transaction in the cluster. This way, the per process communication is +reduced to the required minimum. + + +As said, I am hacking on some code ... + + +Jan + +Chris Travers wrote: +> Tom Lane wrote: +> +>>Chris Travers writes: +>> +>> +>>>Yes I have. Postgres-r is not a high-availability solution which is +>>>capable of transparent failover, +>>> +>>> +>> +>>What makes you say that? My understanding is it's supposed to survive +>>loss of individual servers. +>> +>> regards, tom lane +>> +>> +>> +>> +> My mistake. I must have gotten them confused with another +> (asynchronous) replication project. +> +> Best Wishes, +> Chris Travers +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your +> joining column's datatypes do not match + + +-- +#======================================================================# +# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # +# Let's break this rule - forgive me. # +#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com # + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:54:26 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA43D1B8BF + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:48:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17416-10 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:48:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta5.adelphia.net (mta5.adelphia.net [68.168.78.187]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285C5D1B8A4 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:47:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta5.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030827014749.ZYNY7719.mta5.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com> + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:47:49 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:47:48 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/379 +X-Sequence-Number: 3195 + +Hey all. + +I said I was going to do it, and I finally did it. + +As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +learn a few things from them. + +Intelligent feedback is welcome. + +http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:53:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00019D1B89B + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:12:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 28783-04 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:11:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta8.adelphia.net (mta8.adelphia.net [68.168.78.196]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A68DD1B52C + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:11:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta8.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030827021150.YAPV18971.mta8.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:11:50 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4C1364.6080602@potentialtech.com> +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:11:48 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: matt +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +In-Reply-To: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/378 +X-Sequence-Number: 3194 + +matt wrote: +> I'm wondering if the good people out there could perhaps give me some +> pointers on suitable hardware to solve an upcoming performance issue. +> I've never really dealt with these kinds of loads before, so any +> experience you guys have would be invaluable. Apologies in advance for +> the amount of info below... +> +> My app is likely to come under some serious load in the next 6 months, +> but the increase will be broadly predictable, so there is time to throw +> hardware at the problem. +> +> Currently I have a ~1GB DB, with the largest (and most commonly accessed +> and updated) two tables having 150,000 and 50,000 rows. +> +> A typical user interaction with the system involves about 15 +> single-table selects, 5 selects with joins or subqueries, 3 inserts, and +> 3 updates. The current hardware probably (based on benchmarking and +> profiling) tops out at about 300 inserts/updates *or* 2500 selects per +> second. +> +> There are multiple indexes on each table that updates & inserts happen +> on. These indexes are necessary to provide adequate select performance. + +Are you sure? Have you tested the overall application to see if possibly +you gain more on insert performance than you lose on select performanc? + +(Hey, you asked for musings ...) + +> Current hardware/software: +> Quad 700MHz PIII Xeon/1MB cache +> 3GB RAM +> RAID 10 over 4 18GB/10,000rpm drives +> 128MB battery backed controller cache with write-back enabled +> Redhat 7.3, kernel 2.4.20 +> Postgres 7.2.3 (stock redhat issue) + +It's possible that compiling Postgres manually with proper optimizations +could yield some improvements, as well as building a custom kernel in +Redhat. + +Also, you don't mention which filesystem you're using: +http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +> I need to increase the overall performance by a factor of 10, while at +> the same time the DB size increases by a factor of 50. e.g. 3000 +> inserts/updates or 25,000 selects per second, over a 25GB database with +> most used tables of 5,000,000 and 1,000,000 rows. +> +> Notably, the data is very time-sensitive, so the active dataset at any +> hour is almost certainly going to be more on the order of 5GB than 25GB +> (plus I'll want all the indexes in RAM of course). +> +> Also, and importantly, the load comes but one hour per week, so buying a +> Starfire isn't a real option, as it'd just sit idle the rest of the +> time. I'm particularly interested in keeping the cost down, as I'm a +> shareholder in the company! + +I can't say for sure without looking at your application overall, but +many applications I've seen could be optimized. It's usually a few +seconds here and there that take hours to find and tweak. + +But if you're in the situation where you have more time than money, +you may find that an overall audit of your app is worthwhile. Consider +taking parts that are in perl (for example) and recoding them into C +(that is, unless you've already identified that all the bottlenecks are +at the PostgreSQL server) + +I doubt if the suggestions I've made are going to get you 10x, but they +may get you 2x, and then you only need the hardware to do 5x. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:50:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46820D1B8C3 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:59:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 36852-06 + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:59:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A48ED1B52C + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:59:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao01.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030827025906.QRSV5378.lakemtao01.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:59:06 -0400 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:59:06 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/377 +X-Sequence-Number: 3193 + +On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 20:35, matt wrote: +> I'm wondering if the good people out there could perhaps give me some +> pointers on suitable hardware to solve an upcoming performance issue. +> I've never really dealt with these kinds of loads before, so any +> experience you guys have would be invaluable. Apologies in advance for +> the amount of info below... +> +> My app is likely to come under some serious load in the next 6 months, +> but the increase will be broadly predictable, so there is time to throw +> hardware at the problem. +> +> Currently I have a ~1GB DB, with the largest (and most commonly accessed +> and updated) two tables having 150,000 and 50,000 rows. +> +> A typical user interaction with the system involves about 15 +> single-table selects, 5 selects with joins or subqueries, 3 inserts, and +> 3 updates. The current hardware probably (based on benchmarking and +> profiling) tops out at about 300 inserts/updates *or* 2500 selects per +> second. +> +> There are multiple indexes on each table that updates & inserts happen +> on. These indexes are necessary to provide adequate select performance. +> +> Current hardware/software: +> Quad 700MHz PIII Xeon/1MB cache +> 3GB RAM +> RAID 10 over 4 18GB/10,000rpm drives +> 128MB battery backed controller cache with write-back enabled + +Much more cache needed. Say 512MB per controller? + +> Redhat 7.3, kernel 2.4.20 +> Postgres 7.2.3 (stock redhat issue) + +Upgrade to Pg 7.3.4! + +> I need to increase the overall performance by a factor of 10, while at +> the same time the DB size increases by a factor of 50. e.g. 3000 + +Are you *sure* about that???? 3K updates/inserts per second xlates +to 10,800,000 per hour. That, my friend, is a WHOLE HECK OF A LOT! + +> inserts/updates or 25,000 selects per second, over a 25GB database with + +Likewise: 90,000,000 selects per hour. + +> most used tables of 5,000,000 and 1,000,000 rows. +> +> Notably, the data is very time-sensitive, so the active dataset at any + +During the 1 hour surge, will SELECTs at 10 minutes after the +hour depend on INSERTs at 5 minutes after the hour? + +If not, maybe you could pump the INSERT/UPDATE records into +flat files, to be processed after the 1-hour surge is complete. +That may reduce the h/w requirements. + +> hour is almost certainly going to be more on the order of 5GB than 25GB +> (plus I'll want all the indexes in RAM of course). +> +> Also, and importantly, the load comes but one hour per week, so buying a + +Only one hour out of 168????? May I ask what kind of app it is? + +> Starfire isn't a real option, as it'd just sit idle the rest of the +> time. I'm particularly interested in keeping the cost down, as I'm a +> shareholder in the company! + +What a fun exercises. Ok, lets see: +Postgres 7.3.4 +RH AS 2.1 +12GB RAM +motherboard with 64 bit 66MHz PCI slots +4 - Xenon 3.0GHz (1MB cache) CPUs +8 - 36GB 15K RPM as RAID10 on a 64 bit 66MHz U320 controller + having 512MB cache (for database) +2 - 36GB 15K RPM as RAID1 on a 64 bit 66MHz U320 controller + having 512MB cache (for OS, swap, WAL files) +1 - library tape drive plugged into the OS' SCSI controller. I + prefer DLT, but that's my DEC bias. +1 - 1000 volt UPS. + +If you know when the flood will be coming, you could perform +SELECT * FROM ... WHERE statements on an indexed field, to +pull the relevant data into Linux's buffers. + +Yes, the 8 disks is capacity-overkill, but the 8 high-speed +spindles is what you're looking for. + +> So what do I need? Can anyone who has (or has ever had) that kind of +> load in production offer any pointers, anecdotes, etc? Any theoretical +> musings also more than welcome. Comments upon my sanity will be +> referred to my doctor. +> +> If the best price/performance option is a second hand 32-cpu Alpha +> running VMS I'd be happy to go that way ;-) + +I'd love to work on a GS320! You may even pick one up for a million +or 2. The license costs for VMS & Rdb would eat you, though. + +Rdb *does* have ways, though, using large buffers and hashed indexes, +with the table tuples stored on the same page as the hashed index +keys, to make such accesses *blazingly* fast. + +> Many thanks for reading this far. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"A C program is like a fast dance on a newly waxed dance floor +by people carrying razors." +Waldi Ravens + + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 04:51:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11DD7D1B8A4 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:26:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49743-09 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:26:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92508D1B8C5 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:26:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7R3PfI24921; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:25:41 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308270325.h7R3PfI24921@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Replication Ideas +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0CAE.3030901@Yahoo.com> +To: Jan Wieck +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:25:41 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Chris Travers , Tom Lane , + Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , + PostgreSQL-development +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1092 +X-Sequence-Number: 42749 + + +[ Moved to hackers.] + +Jan Wieck wrote: +> I am currently hacking around with some C+PL/TclU+Spread constructs that +> might form a rude kind of prototype creature. +> +> My changes to the Postgres-R concept are that there will be as many +> replicating slave processes as there are in summary masters out in the +> cluster ... yes, it will try to utilize all the CPU's in the cluster! + +Interesting --- so your idea is to have the group sets run in parallel, +and detecting if the groups themselves are in conflict --- makes sense. +If you can detect if outside transactions conflict with your +transaction, you should be able to determine if the outside transactions +conflict with each other. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 00:42:22 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8694ED1B915 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:37:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 51036-10 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:37:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F472D1B8B9 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:37:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7R3bB5H006359; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:37:11 -0400 (EDT) +To: Bruce Momjian +Cc: Jan Wieck , Chris Travers , + Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , + PostgreSQL-development +Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Replication Ideas +In-reply-to: <200308270325.h7R3PfI24921@candle.pha.pa.us> +References: <200308270325.h7R3PfI24921@candle.pha.pa.us> +Comments: In-reply-to Bruce Momjian + message dated "Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:25:41 -0400" +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:37:10 -0400 +Message-ID: <6358.1061955430@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1087 +X-Sequence-Number: 42744 + +Bruce Momjian writes: +> If you can detect if outside transactions conflict with your +> transaction, you should be able to determine if the outside transactions +> conflict with each other. + +Uh ... not necessarily. That amounts to assuming that every xact has +complete knowledge of the actions of every other, which is an assumption +I'd rather not make. Detecting that what you've done conflicts with +someone else is one thing, detecting that party B has conflicted with +party C is another league entirely. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 04:37:20 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-hackers-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7D8D1B94F + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:58:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 57363-10 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:57:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51069D1B8B4 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:57:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7R3vQQ27987; + Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:57:26 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308270357.h7R3vQQ27987@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Replication Ideas +In-Reply-To: <6358.1061955430@sss.pgh.pa.us> +To: Tom Lane +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:57:26 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Jan Wieck , Chris Travers , + Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , + PostgreSQL-development +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL99 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1091 +X-Sequence-Number: 42748 + +Tom Lane wrote: +> Bruce Momjian writes: +> > If you can detect if outside transactions conflict with your +> > transaction, you should be able to determine if the outside transactions +> > conflict with each other. +> +> Uh ... not necessarily. That amounts to assuming that every xact has +> complete knowledge of the actions of every other, which is an assumption +> I'd rather not make. Detecting that what you've done conflicts with +> someone else is one thing, detecting that party B has conflicted with +> party C is another league entirely. + +Yep. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 01:09:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E186D1B8BD + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:08:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 62221-03 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:08:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from symler1.mail.eds.com (symler1.mail.eds.com [207.169.189.141]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A975D1B8B3 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:08:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from symlir1.mail.eds.com (symlir1.mail.eds.com [192.85.216.71]) + by symler1.mail.eds.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7R482s13336 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:08:03 +1000 +Received: from symlir1.mail.eds.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by symlir1.mail.eds.com (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7R482611225 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:08:02 +1000 +Received: from ausym000.exau01.exch.eds.com ([134.251.177.117]) + by symlir1.mail.eds.com (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7R482i11211 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:08:02 +1000 +Received: by ausym000.exau01.exch.eds.com with Internet Mail Service + (5.5.2656.59) id ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:08:01 +1000 +Message-ID: +From: "Castle, Lindsay" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: 8 way Intel Xeon system +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:07:56 +1000 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) +Content-Type: text/plain +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_30, + RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/347 +X-Sequence-Number: 3163 + +Hi all, + +Hopefully a quick query. + +Is there anything special I should look at when configuring either +PostgreSQL and Linux to work together on an 8-way Intel P-III based system? + +I currently have the database system running fairly nicely on a 2 CPU +Pentium-II 400 server with 512MB memory, hardware RAID with 32MB cache on +the controllers, unfortunately the db file systems are RAID-5 but I am not +in a position to change that. + +I'm mainly interested in what I should concentrate on from a +Linux/PostgreSQL config point of view to see if we can take advantage of the +extra CPUs. - Yes it's overkill but this is a piece of surplus hardware we +don't have to buy. + +Perhaps some may say Linux isn't the best option for an 8 CPU server but +this is what I have to work with for reasons we won't get into :-) + +The current usage is along the lines of a few thousands updates spread over +the space of a few hours in the morning then followed by a thousand select +queries to do some reporting. + +The server also runs an apache web server for people to access but is only +used to view html files on a fairly ad-hoc basis, nothing serious on the web +side of things. + +Currently RedHat 9 with PostgreSQL 7.3.2 installed. + +Thanks for your time + +Linz + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 02:57:15 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F4BD1B914 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:38:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71635-06 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:37:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from phaze.fireserve.net (phaze.fireserve.net [207.109.249.2]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88819D1B8BF + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:37:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fireserve.net (dh0032.moore-s.fireserve.net [207.109.249.161]) + by phaze.fireserve.net (8.11.6p2/linuxconf) with ESMTP id + h7R4Ymt26977; Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:34:48 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F4C34B7.3050307@fireserve.net> +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:33:59 -0700 +From: Dennis Gearon +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ru +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Jan Wieck +Cc: Chris Travers , Tom Lane , + Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> + <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> + <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> + <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <3F4A8A7D.30308@travelamericas.com> <3F4C0CAE.3030901@Yahoo.com> +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0CAE.3030901@Yahoo.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-MailScanner: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, + SpamAssassin (Disabled due to 20 consecutive timeouts) +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1434 +X-Sequence-Number: 47850 + +Jan Wieck wrote: + +> WARNING: This is getting long ... +> +> Postgres-R is a very interesting and inspiring idea. And I've been +> kicking that concept around for a while now. What I don't like about +> it is that it requires fundamental changes in the lock mechanism and +> that it is based on the assumption of very low lock conflict. +> +> +> In Postgres-R a committing transaction sends it's workset (WS - a list +> of all updates done in this transaction) to the group communication +> system (GC). The GC guarantees total order, meaning that all nodes +> will receive all WSs in the same order, no matter how they have been +> sent. +> +> If a node receives back it's own WS before any error occured, it goes +> ahead and finalizes the commit. If it receives a foreign WS, it has to +> apply the whole WS and commit it before it can process anything else. +> If now a local transaction, in progress or while waiting for it's WS +> to come back, holds a lock that is required to process such remote WS, +> the local transaction needs to be aborted to unlock it's resources ... +> it lost the total order race. +> +> +> Postgres-R requires that all remote WSs are applied and committed +> before a local transaction can commit. Otherwise it couldn't correctly +> detect a lock conflict. So there will not be any read ahead. And since +> the total order really counts here, it cannot apply any two remote WSs +> in parallel, a race condition could possibly exist and a later WS in +> the total order runs faster and locks up a previous one, so we have to +> squeeze all remote WSs through one single replication work process. +> And all the locally parallel executed transactions that wait for their +> WSs to come back have to wait until that poor little worker is done +> with the whole pile. Bye bye concurrency. And I don't know how the GC +> will deal with the backlog either. Could well choke on it. +> +> I do not see how this will scale well in a multi-SMP-system cluster. +> At least the serialization of WSs will become a horror if there is +> significant lock contention like in a standard TPC-C on the district +> row containing the order number counter. I don't know for sure, but I +> suspect that with this kind of bottleneck, Postgres-R will have to +> rollback more than 50% of it's transactions when there are more than 4 +> nodes under heavy load (like in a benchmark run). That will suck ... +> +> +> But ... initially I said that it is an inspiring concept ... soooo ... +> +> I am currently hacking around with some C+PL/TclU+Spread constructs +> that might form a rude kind of prototype creature. +> +> My changes to the Postgres-R concept are that there will be as many +> replicating slave processes as there are in summary masters out in the +> cluster ... yes, it will try to utilize all the CPU's in the cluster! +> For failover reliability, A committing transaction will hold before +> finalizing the commit and send it's "I'm ready" to the GC. Every +> replicator that reaches the same state send's "I'm ready" too. Spread +> guarantees in SAFE_MESS mode that messages are delivered to all nodes +> in a group or that at least LEAVE/DISCONNECT messages are deliverd +> before. So if a node receives more than 50% of "I'm ready", there +> would be a very small gap where multiple nodes have to fail in the +> same split second so that the majority of nodes does NOT commit. A +> node that reported "I'm ready" but lost more than 50% of the cluster +> before committing has to rollback and rejoin or wait for operator +> intervention. +> +> Now the idea is to split up the communication into GC distribution +> groups per transaction. So working master backends and associated +> replication backends will join/leave a unique group for every +> transaction in the cluster. This way, the per process communication is +> reduced to the required minimum. +> +> +> As said, I am hacking on some code ... +> +> +> Jan +> +> Chris Travers wrote: +> +>> Tom Lane wrote: +>> +>>> Chris Travers writes: +>>> +>>> +>>>> Yes I have. Postgres-r is not a high-availability solution which is +>>>> capable of transparent failover, +>>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> What makes you say that? My understanding is it's supposed to survive +>>> loss of individual servers. +>>> +>>> regards, tom lane +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>> My mistake. I must have gotten them confused with another +>> (asynchronous) replication project. +>> +>> Best Wishes, +>> Chris Travers +>> +>> +>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +>> TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if +>> your +>> joining column's datatypes do not match +> +> +> +As my british friends would say, "Bully for you",and I applaud you +playing, struggling, learning from this for our sakes. Jeez, all I think +about is me,huh? + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 04:12:59 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3076D1B95B + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:22:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 10069-02 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:22:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157C0D1B550 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:22:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7R6M3em078150 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:22:07 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7R5tuD0072163 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:55:56 GMT +From: "Bupp Phillips" +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: What is the fastest way to get a resultset +Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:56:10 -0700 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 27 +Message-ID: +References: + + + <20030826182624.GF64198@home.samurai.com> +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/350 +X-Sequence-Number: 3166 + +So there are no settings for PG to can give me this same (fast) capability +just by issuing a SQL statement thru the ODBC driver? + +The reason I can't go the route of a DECLARE CURSOR is because my +application runs on multiple databases, so I have stay clear of certain +routines that may are may not be supported on another database. + + +"Neil Conway" wrote in message +news:20030826182624.GF64198@home.samurai.com... +> On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 02:18:23AM -0700, Bupp Phillips wrote: +> > It there a way to get server side cursors with Postgresql like SQLServer +has +> > or is this a limitation that it has? +> +> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/static/sql-declare.html +> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/static/sql-fetch.html +> +> -Neil +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command +> (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org) +> + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 03:53:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F163AD1B8A3 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:53:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 14987-08 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:52:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A064D1B550 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:52:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7R6uv8N012922 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:26:57 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7R6uuhi012896 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:26:56 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:24:40 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4CA308.15268.327E2C9@localhost> +In-reply-to: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/348 +X-Sequence-Number: 3164 + +On 26 Aug 2003 at 8:34, Jeff wrote: + +> Could it just be that the sun sucks? (And for the record - same schema, +> nearly same query (modified for datetime syntax) on informix runs in 3 +> seconds). + +My impression is IPC on sun has higher initial latency than linux. But given +that you also ran the tests with multiple connections and results were of +similar pattern, I can't help to conclude that postgresql has to find a way to +have faste IPC on solaris. + +I know I will be flamed for repeatedly making this suggestion. But what does +tests with sparc linux on same machine yield? + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +untold wealth, n.: What you left out on April 15th. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 03:59:36 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1C41D1B8BD + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:58:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15832-09 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:58:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBDED1B948 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:58:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7R72oLv014592 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:32:50 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7R72ohi014579 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:32:50 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:30:33 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: 8 way Intel Xeon system +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4CA469.27749.32D48FD@localhost> +In-reply-to: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/349 +X-Sequence-Number: 3165 + +On 27 Aug 2003 at 14:07, Castle, Lindsay wrote: +> I'm mainly interested in what I should concentrate on from a +> Linux/PostgreSQL config point of view to see if we can take advantage of the +> extra CPUs. - Yes it's overkill but this is a piece of surplus hardware we +> don't have to buy. + +First of all whatever you do, add multiple connections using a middle layer. +That will keep your CPU busy. + +Of course there are few things need to be done over single connection but this +should help at least in some scenarios. + +> Perhaps some may say Linux isn't the best option for an 8 CPU server but +> this is what I have to work with for reasons we won't get into :-) + +I think if you can afford a performance benchmark trial, give 2.6.0-testx a +try. They should be much better than 2.4.x. + +> The current usage is along the lines of a few thousands updates spread over +> the space of a few hours in the morning then followed by a thousand select +> queries to do some reporting. + +In case of such IO intensive and update/delete heavy load, might be a good idea +to move WAL to a separate SCSI channel. I believe merely moving it to another +drive would not yield as much boost. + +> Currently RedHat 9 with PostgreSQL 7.3.2 installed. + +Get 7.4CVS head. and don't forget to use a autovacuum daemon. It's in contrib +dir. + +HTH + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Ogden's Law: The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up. + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:48:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52232D1B8CC + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:12:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33646-10 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:12:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49D1D1B550 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:12:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao01.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030827081232.TLII5378.lakemtao01.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 04:12:32 -0400 +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL General ML +In-Reply-To: <6358.1061955430@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <200308270325.h7R3PfI24921@candle.pha.pa.us> + <6358.1061955430@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1061971951.18060.357.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 03:12:31 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1527 +X-Sequence-Number: 47943 + +On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 22:37, Tom Lane wrote: +> Bruce Momjian writes: +> > If you can detect if outside transactions conflict with your +> > transaction, you should be able to determine if the outside transactions +> > conflict with each other. +> +> Uh ... not necessarily. That amounts to assuming that every xact has +> complete knowledge of the actions of every other, which is an assumption +> I'd rather not make. Detecting that what you've done conflicts with +> someone else is one thing, detecting that party B has conflicted with +> party C is another league entirely. + +Maybe some sort of Lock Manager? A process running on each node +keeps a tree structure of all locks, requested locks, what is +(requested to be) locked, and the type of lock. If you are running +multi-master replication, each LM keeps in sync with each other, +thus creating a Distributed Lock Manager. (This would also be the +key to implementing database clusters. Of course, the interface +to the DLM would have to be pretty deep within Postgres itself...) + +Using a DLM, the postmaster on node_a would know that the postmaster +on node_b has just locked a certain set of tuples and index keys, +and +(1) will queue up it's request to lock that data into that node's + LM, +(2) which will propagate it to the other nodes, +(3) then when the node_a postmaster executes the COMMIT WORK, the + node_b postmaster can obtain it's desired locks. +(4) If the postmaster on node_[ac-z] needs to lock the that same + data, it will then similarly queue up to wait until the node_b + postmaster executes it's COMMIT WORK. + +Notes: +a) this is, of course, not *sufficient* for multi-master +b) yes, you need a fast, low latency network for the DLM chatter. + +This is a tried and true method of synchronization. DEC Rdb/VMS +has been using it for 19 years as the underpinnings of it's cluster +technology, and Oracle licensed it from them (well, really Compaq) +for it's 9i RAC. + + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"The UN couldn't break up a cookie fight in a Brownie meeting." +Larry Miller + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:44:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2C7D1B924 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:57:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 42844-09 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:56:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20827D1B94F + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 05:56:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7R8usi15392 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:56:54 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7R8uqV15368; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:56:52 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 47C816FCCC; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:56:41 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 3D7057F6E6; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:56:41 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:56:41 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: "Castle, Lindsay" +Cc: +Subject: Re: 8 way Intel Xeon system +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/376 +X-Sequence-Number: 3192 + +2003-08-27 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Castle, Lindsay ezt =FCzente: + +> Perhaps some may say Linux isn't the best option for an 8 CPU server but +> this is what I have to work with for reasons we won't get into :-) + +This is not true, 2.4 series AFAIK run nicely on these monstrums. If you +want some thrill, try 2.6-test series. Linux Is Good For You (tm) :) + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:18:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFE3D1B8BF + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:40:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 75293-07 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:40:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2039FD1B550 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:40:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19ryel-0002QQ-00 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 07:40:07 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id 5BC42CF15; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 07:40:07 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 07:40:07 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Message-ID: <20030827114007.GD13190@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/373 +X-Sequence-Number: 3189 + +On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:35:13AM +0100, matt wrote: + +> I need to increase the overall performance by a factor of 10, while at +> the same time the DB size increases by a factor of 50. e.g. 3000 +> inserts/updates or 25,000 selects per second, over a 25GB database with +> most used tables of 5,000,000 and 1,000,000 rows. + +Your problem is mostly going to be disk related. You can only get in +there as many tuples in a second as your disk rotates per second. I +suspect what you need is really expensive disk hardware (sorry to +tell you that) set up as RAID 1+0 on fibre channel or something. +3000 write transactions per second is probably too much to ask for +any standard hardware. + +But given that you are batching this once a week, and trying to avoid +big expenses, are you use this is the right approach? Perhaps you +should consider a redesign using COPY and such? + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:11:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5580ED1B920 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:34:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 85805-08 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:33:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B576D1B8AB + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:33:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 24418 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2003 12:33:34 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 27 Aug 2003 12:33:34 -0000 +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:33:34 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Neil Conway +Cc: Darcy Buskermolen , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +In-Reply-To: <20030826193729.GG64198@home.samurai.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/372 +X-Sequence-Number: 3188 + +On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Neil Conway wrote: +> +> Would it be possible to get a profile (e.g. gprof output) for a postgres +> backend executing the query on the Sun machine? +> +Heh. Never thought of doing a profile! + +I attached the entire gprof output, but here's the top few functions. + +I did the test, 1 beater, 100 searches: 148 seconds total. + + 30.9 45.55 45.55 nocachegetattr [16] + 16.0 69.20 23.65 internal_mcount [22] + 6.9 79.37 10.17 5245902 0.00 0.00 heapgettup [21] + 6.0 88.28 8.91 3663201 0.00 0.00 +ExecMakeFunctionResult + [23] + 5.4 96.27 7.99 11431400 0.00 0.00 ExecEvalVar [25] + 3.0 100.73 4.46 18758201 0.00 0.00 ExecEvalExpr + [24] + 3.0 105.17 4.44 5246005 0.00 0.00 AllocSetReset [29] + 2.5 108.89 3.72 5245700 0.00 0.00 +HeapTupleSatisfiesSnapshot + [30] + 2.0 111.78 2.89 5650632 0.00 0.00 LWLockRelease [32] + 1.6 114.10 2.32 5650632 0.00 0.00 LWLockAcquire [34] + 1.6 116.40 2.30 5245800 0.00 0.01 SeqNext [17] + 1.4 118.54 2.14 5438301 0.00 0.00 ExecStoreTuple [27] + 1.4 120.62 2.08 5245700 0.00 0.01 ExecQual [18] + 1.3 122.50 1.88 5379202 0.00 0.00 ReleaseAndReadBuffer +[35] + 1.1 124.16 1.66 178400 0.01 0.40 ExecScan [15] + 1.1 125.80 1.64 _mcount (6247) + 1.1 127.41 1.61 5245902 0.00 0.01 heap_getnext [20] + + +.. as it turns out the profile gzipped is still huge (100kb) so I put it +on my web server - snag it at + +http://www.jefftrout.com/~threshar/postgres/postgres-7.3.4-sol8-gprof.txt.gz + +I'll do a profile for hte p2 and send post that in an hour or two + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:11:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087CAD1B550 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:40:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 86435-09 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:40:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107C6D1B920 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:40:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7RCeEi20821 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:40:14 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7RCeDV20817 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:40:14 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 7FDC46FCCC; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:40:02 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753697F6E6 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:40:02 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:40:02 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: +Subject: Re: Tests +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/371 +X-Sequence-Number: 3187 + +http://mail.sth.sze.hu/~hsz/sql/ + +New, upgraded test results. As we see, the developers works hard, and with +good results. Million thanks and congratulations. + +Sorry *BSD-lovers, if you send a new hard drive, our tester can do bsd +tests also. Life is hard. + +And last, but not least, thanks for the tests, Horv=E1th Szabolcs + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-bugs-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:08:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-bugs-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 65208D1B8AC; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:51:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 90757-02; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:50:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from kiwi.iasi.rdsnet.ro (kiwi.iasi.rdsnet.ro [213.157.176.3]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 6EAA6D1B8BD; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:50:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro (blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro + [213.157.176.7]) + by kiwi.iasi.rdsnet.ro (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7RCoXaM021933 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:50:33 +0300 +Received: from blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id + h7RCoXxv022298 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:50:33 +0300 +Received: from localhost (Mituc@localhost) + by blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id + h7RCoW7A022294; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:50:33 +0300 +X-Authentication-Warning: blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro: Mituc owned process doing + -bs +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:50:32 +0300 (EEST) +From: Tarhon-Onu Victor +To: pgsql-bugs@postgresql.org +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: pgsql inserts problem +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/232 +X-Sequence-Number: 6604 + + + Hi, + + I have a (big) problem with postgresql when making lots of +inserts per second. I have a tool that is generating an output of ~2500 +lines per seconds. I write a script in PERL that opens a pipe to that +tool, reads every line and inserts data. + I tryed both commited and not commited variants (the inserts +were commited at every 60 seconds), and the problem persists. + + The problems is that only ~15% of the lines are inserted into +the database. The same script modified to insert the same data in a +similar table created in a MySQL database inserts 100%. + + I also dropped the indexes on various columns, just to make sure +that the overhead is not to big (but I also need that indexes because +I'll make lots of SELECTs from that table). + I tried both variants: connecting to a host and localy (through +postgresql server's socket (/tmp/s.PGSQL.5432). + + Where can be the problem? + + I'm using postgresql 7.4 devel snapshot 20030628 and 20030531. +Some of the settings are: + +shared_buffers = 520 +max_locks_per_transaction = 128 +wal_buffers = 8 +max_fsm_relations = 30000 +max_fsm_pages = 482000 +sort_mem = 131072 +vacuum_mem = 131072 +effective_cache_size = 10000 +random_page_cost = 2 + +-- +Any views or opinions presented within this e-mail are solely those of +the author and do not necessarily represent those of any company, unless +otherwise expressly stated. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:03:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C2CBD1B8B9 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:18:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 98127-01 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:17:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B37F9D1B8BF + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:17:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 11297 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2003 13:17:45 -0000 +Received: from dsl-217-155-239-50.zen.co.uk (217.155.239.50) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2003 13:17:45 -0000 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: matt +To: Bill Moran +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <3F4C1364.6080602@potentialtech.com> +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4C1364.6080602@potentialtech.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: +Message-Id: <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) +Date: 27 Aug 2003 14:17:44 +0100 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/369 +X-Sequence-Number: 3185 + +> Are you sure? Have you tested the overall application to see if possibly +> you gain more on insert performance than you lose on select performanc? + +Unfortunately dropping any of the indexes results in much worse select +performance that is not remotely clawed back by the improvement in +insert performance. + +Actually there doesn't really seem to *be* that much improvement in +insert performance when going from 3 indexes to 2. I guess indexes must +be fairly cheap for PG to maintain? + +> It's possible that compiling Postgres manually with proper optimizations +> could yield some improvements, as well as building a custom kernel in +> Redhat. +> +> Also, you don't mention which filesystem you're using: +> http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +Yeah, I can imagine getting 5% extra from a slim kernel and +super-optimised PG. + +The FS is ext3, metadata journaling (the default), mounted noatime. + +> But if you're in the situation where you have more time than money, +> you may find that an overall audit of your app is worthwhile. Consider +> taking parts that are in perl (for example) and recoding them into C +> (that is, unless you've already identified that all the bottlenecks are +> at the PostgreSQL server) + +I can pretty cheaply add more CPU horsepower for the app servers, as +they scale horizontally, so I can chuck in a couple (or 3, or 4, or ...) +more dual-cpu boxen with a gig of ram and tell the load balancer about +them. The problem with the DB is that that approach simply won't work - +the box just has to get bigger! + +> I doubt if the suggestions I've made are going to get you 10x, but they +> may get you 2x, and then you only need the hardware to do 5x. + +It all helps :-) A few percent here, a few percent there, pretty soon +you're talking serious improvements... + +Thanks + +Matt + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:56:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B38BD1B8CC + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:56:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06004-03 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:56:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ram.rentec.com (unknown [192.5.35.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C516ED1B8E6 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:55:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from rentec.com (IDENT:618@murre.rentec.com [192.5.35.148]) + by ram.rentec.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h7RDu0WU024096 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:56:00 -0400 (EDT) +Message-ID: <3F4CB86F.1020901@rentec.com> +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:55:59 -0400 +From: Michael Guerin +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030703 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Simple queries take forever to run +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/366 +X-Sequence-Number: 3182 + +I'm running into some performance problems trying to execute simple queries. + +postgresql version 7.3.3 +.conf params changed from defaults. +shared_buffers = 64000 +sort_mem = 64000 +fsync = false +effective_cache_size = 400000 + +ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); + +There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. +x has 1200673 rows +y has 1282 rows + +It seems like its ignoring the index and not using enough memory.. any +ideas? + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 11:20:02 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276CBD1B52C + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:18:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 10014-05 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:18:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C620D1B8E4 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:17:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta11.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030827141748.SKKJ19795.mta11.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:17:48 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4CBD8A.4050309@potentialtech.com> +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:17:46 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: matt +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4C1364.6080602@potentialtech.com> + <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +In-Reply-To: <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/351 +X-Sequence-Number: 3167 + +matt wrote: +>>Are you sure? Have you tested the overall application to see if possibly +>>you gain more on insert performance than you lose on select performanc? +> +> Unfortunately dropping any of the indexes results in much worse select +> performance that is not remotely clawed back by the improvement in +> insert performance. + +Bummer. It was just a thought: never assume dropping indexes will hurt +performance. But, since you've obviously tested ... + +> Actually there doesn't really seem to *be* that much improvement in +> insert performance when going from 3 indexes to 2. I guess indexes must +> be fairly cheap for PG to maintain? + +Don't know how "cheap" they are. + +I have an app that does large batch updates. I found that if I dropped +the indexes, did the updates and recreated the indexes, it was faster +than doing the updates while the indexes were intact. + +It doesn't sound like your app can use that approach, but I thought I'd +throw it out there. + +>>It's possible that compiling Postgres manually with proper optimizations +>>could yield some improvements, as well as building a custom kernel in +>>Redhat. +>> +>>Also, you don't mention which filesystem you're using: +>>http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php +> +> Yeah, I can imagine getting 5% extra from a slim kernel and +> super-optimised PG. +> +> The FS is ext3, metadata journaling (the default), mounted noatime. + +ext3 is more reliable than ext2, but it's 1.1x slower. You can squeeze +a little performance by using Reiser or JFS, if you're not willing to +take the risk of ext2, either way, it's a pretty minor improvement. + +Does noatime make much difference on a PostgreSQL database? I haven't +tested that yet. + +>>But if you're in the situation where you have more time than money, +>>you may find that an overall audit of your app is worthwhile. Consider +>>taking parts that are in perl (for example) and recoding them into C +>>(that is, unless you've already identified that all the bottlenecks are +>>at the PostgreSQL server) +> +> I can pretty cheaply add more CPU horsepower for the app servers, as +> they scale horizontally, so I can chuck in a couple (or 3, or 4, or ...) +> more dual-cpu boxen with a gig of ram and tell the load balancer about +> them. The problem with the DB is that that approach simply won't work - +> the box just has to get bigger! + +Can you split it onto multiple boxes? Some database layouts lend themselves +to this, others don't. Obviously you can't do joins from one server to +another, so you may lose more in multiple queries than you gain by having +multiple servers. It's worth looking into though. + +I know my answers aren't quite the ones you were looking for, but my +experience is that many people try to solve poor application design +by simply throwing bigger hardware at the problem. It appears as though +you've already done your homework, though. + +Hope this has been _some_ help. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:44:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8D5D1B91E + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:34:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 15243-07 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:33:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ainea-ag.de (unknown [195.145.148.245]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3E01FD1B8EE + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:33:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 9843 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2003 14:34:06 -0000 +Received: from kanzler.ainea-ag.de (HELO allanon.ainea-ag.de) + (@195.145.148.242) + by grinch.ainea-ag.de with SMTP; 27 Aug 2003 14:34:06 -0000 +Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030827162734.03b77c58@195.145.148.245> +X-Sender: fkreitner@195.145.148.245 +X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:36:14 +0200 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +From: Fabian Kreitner +Subject: Improving simple textsearch? +In-Reply-To: <3F4CBD8A.4050309@potentialtech.com> +References: <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4C1364.6080602@potentialtech.com> + <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/365 +X-Sequence-Number: 3181 + + +Hi, + +can anyone point me to information regarding this please? + +Objective is to find entries that match one (or more) supplied strings in +two tables. The first has about 20.000 entries with 1 varchar field to +check, the other about 40.000 with 5 varchar fields to check. The currently +used sequential scan is getting too expensive. + +Thanks, + Fabian + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:40:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1A0D1B8E7 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:37:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18708-09 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:37:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 17795D1B95A + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:37:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 16948 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2003 14:37:14 -0000 +Received: from dsl-217-155-239-50.zen.co.uk (217.155.239.50) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2003 14:37:14 -0000 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: matt +To: Bill Moran +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: <3F4CBD8A.4050309@potentialtech.com> +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4C1364.6080602@potentialtech.com> + <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4CBD8A.4050309@potentialtech.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: +Message-Id: <1061995033.15800.138.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) +Date: 27 Aug 2003 15:37:14 +0100 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/364 +X-Sequence-Number: 3180 + +> Don't know how "cheap" they are. +> +> I have an app that does large batch updates. I found that if I dropped +> the indexes, did the updates and recreated the indexes, it was faster +> than doing the updates while the indexes were intact. + +Yeah, unfortunately it's not batch work, but real time financial work. +If I drop all the indexes my select performance goes through the floor, +as you'd expect. + +> Does noatime make much difference on a PostgreSQL database? I haven't +> tested that yet. + +Yup, it does. In fact it should probably be in the standard install +documentation (unless someone has a reason why it shouldn't). Who +*cares* when PG last looked at the tables? If 'nomtime' was available +that would probably be a good thing too. + +> Can you split it onto multiple boxes? Some database layouts lend themselves +> to this, others don't. Obviously you can't do joins from one server to +> another, so you may lose more in multiple queries than you gain by having +> multiple servers. It's worth looking into though. + +I'm considering that. There are some tables which I might be able to +split out. There amy even be some things I can pull from the DB +altogether (session info in particular, so long as I can reliably send a +given user's requests to the same app server each time, bearing in mind +I can't see the cookies too easily because 50% of the requests are over +SSL) + +> I know my answers aren't quite the ones you were looking for, but my +> experience is that many people try to solve poor application design +> by simply throwing bigger hardware at the problem. It appears as though +> you've already done your homework, though. + +Well, I *hope* that's the case! The core issue is simply that we have +to deal with an insane load for 1 hour a week, and there's just no +avoiding it. + +Maybe I can get Sun/HP/IBM to lend some gear (it's a pretty high-profile +site). + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:30:36 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F89D1B8AC + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:20:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 36967-04 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:20:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED847D1B8B1 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:20:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7RFIbxD006003; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:18:38 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:17:42 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: matt +Cc: +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +In-Reply-To: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner-ihs-com: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck-ihs-com: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/363 +X-Sequence-Number: 3179 + +On 27 Aug 2003, matt wrote: + +> I'm wondering if the good people out there could perhaps give me some +> pointers on suitable hardware to solve an upcoming performance issue. +> I've never really dealt with these kinds of loads before, so any +> experience you guys have would be invaluable. Apologies in advance for +> the amount of info below... +> +> My app is likely to come under some serious load in the next 6 months, +> but the increase will be broadly predictable, so there is time to throw +> hardware at the problem. +> +> Currently I have a ~1GB DB, with the largest (and most commonly accessed +> and updated) two tables having 150,000 and 50,000 rows. +> +> A typical user interaction with the system involves about 15 +> single-table selects, 5 selects with joins or subqueries, 3 inserts, and +> 3 updates. The current hardware probably (based on benchmarking and +> profiling) tops out at about 300 inserts/updates *or* 2500 selects per +> second. +> +> There are multiple indexes on each table that updates & inserts happen +> on. These indexes are necessary to provide adequate select performance. +> +> Current hardware/software: +> Quad 700MHz PIII Xeon/1MB cache +> 3GB RAM +> RAID 10 over 4 18GB/10,000rpm drives +> 128MB battery backed controller cache with write-back enabled +> Redhat 7.3, kernel 2.4.20 +> Postgres 7.2.3 (stock redhat issue) +> +> I need to increase the overall performance by a factor of 10, while at +> the same time the DB size increases by a factor of 50. e.g. 3000 +> inserts/updates or 25,000 selects per second, over a 25GB database with +> most used tables of 5,000,000 and 1,000,000 rows. + +It will likely take a combination of optimizing your database structure / +methods and increasing your hardware / OS performance. + +You probably, more than anything, should look at some kind of +superfast, external storage array that has dozens of drives, and a large +battery backed cache. You may be able to approximate this yourself with +just a few dual channel Ultra 320 SCSI cards and a couple dozen hard +drives. The more spindles you throw at a database, generally speaking, +the more parallel load it can handle. + +You may find that once you get to 10 or 20 drives, RAID 5 or 5+0 or 0+5 +will be outrunning 1+0/0+1 due to fewer writes. + +You likely want to look at the fastest CPUs with the fastest memory you +can afford. those 700MHz xeons are likely using PC133 memory, which is +painfully slow compared to the stuff pumping data out at 4 to 8 times the +rate of the older stuff. + +Maybe an SGI Altix could do this? Have you looked at them? They're not +cheap, but they do look to be quite fast, and can scale to 64 CPUs if need +be. They're interbox communication fabric is faster than most CPU's front +side busses. + +> Notably, the data is very time-sensitive, so the active dataset at any +> hour is almost certainly going to be more on the order of 5GB than 25GB +> (plus I'll want all the indexes in RAM of course). +> +> Also, and importantly, the load comes but one hour per week, so buying a +> Starfire isn't a real option, as it'd just sit idle the rest of the +> time. I'm particularly interested in keeping the cost down, as I'm a +> shareholder in the company! + +Interesting. If you can't spread the load out, can you batch some parts +of it? Or is the whole thing interactive therefore needing to all be +done in real time at once? + +> So what do I need? + +whether you like it or not, you're gonna need heavy iron if you need to do +this all in one hour once a week. + +> Can anyone who has (or has ever had) that kind of +> load in production offer any pointers, anecdotes, etc? Any theoretical +> musings also more than welcome. Comments upon my sanity will be +> referred to my doctor. +> +> If the best price/performance option is a second hand 32-cpu Alpha +> running VMS I'd be happy to go that way ;-) + +Actually, I've seen stuff like that going on Ebay pretty cheap lately. I +saw a 64 CPU E10k (366 MHz CPUs) with 64 gigs ram and 20 hard drives going +for $24,000 a month ago. Put Linux or BSD on it and Postgresql should +fly. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 12:35:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF876D1B915 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:31:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38385-06 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:30:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3EED1B8E3 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:30:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7RFYnKn027397 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:04:49 +0530 +Received: from daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in + [192.168.7.161]) (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7RFYlhi027383 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:04:48 +0530 +From: Shridhar Daithankar +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Comparing postgresql7.4 CVS head on linux 2.4.20 and 2.6.0-test4 +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:02:25 +0530 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; + boundary="Boundary-00=_J8MT/AB1qsXdxbm" +Message-Id: <200308272102.26319.shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/352 +X-Sequence-Number: 3168 + +--Boundary-00=_J8MT/AB1qsXdxbm +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline + +Hi all, + +I did some benchmarking using pgbench and postgresql CVS head, compiled +yesterday. + +The results are attached. It looks like 2.6.0-test4 does better under load but +under light load the performance isn't that great. OTOH 2.4.20 suffer major +degradation compare to 2.6. Looks like linux is also getting heavy at lower +end. Of course it isn't as bad as solaris as yet..:-) + +IIRC in a kernel release note recently, it was commented that IO scheduler is +still being worked on and does not perform as much for random seeks, which +exaclty what database needs. + +How does these number stack up with other platforms? Anybody with SCSI disks +out there? I doubt IDE has some role to play with this. + +Comments? + + Shridhar + +--Boundary-00=_J8MT/AB1qsXdxbm +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; + name="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.2.6.0-test4" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.2.6.0-test4" + +Vacumm full done after each run. +pg_resetlog run between each server start + +Scaling factor: 10 +Initialization time: +real 1m42.282s +user 0m1.787s +sys 0m0.121s + +Kernel 2.6.0-test4 +Effective cache size 38400 (300MB) +checkpoint segments=6 + +1)Shared buffers 1000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 131.962542 (including connections establishing) +tps = 134.418358 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 79.301493 (including connections establishing) +tps = 79.393258 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 64.917044 (including connections establishing) +tps = 65.438067 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 66.135615 (including connections establishing) +tps = 66.193039 (excluding connections establishing) + +2) Shared buffers 2000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 135.598994 (including connections establishing) +tps = 138.296634 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 81.331678 (including connections establishing) +tps = 81.425369 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 116.524476 (including connections establishing) +tps = 118.388407 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 64.659894 (including connections establishing) +tps = 64.719829 (excluding connections establishing) + +3) Shared buffers 3000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test +tps = 132.489569 (including connections establishing) +tps = 135.177003 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test +tps = 70.272855 (including connections establishing) +tps = 70.343452 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test +tps = 121.624524 (including connections establishing) +tps = 123.549086 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test +tps = 64.124644 (including connections establishing) +tps = 64.183736 (excluding connections establishing) + +4) noatime enabled Shared buffers 3000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test +tps = 90.850600 (including connections establishing) +tps = 92.053686 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test +tps = 92.209724 (including connections establishing) +tps = 92.329682 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test +tps = 79.264231 (including connections establishing) +tps = 80.145448 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test +tps = 70.439082 (including connections establishing) +tps = 70.506189 (excluding connections establishing) + +--Boundary-00=_J8MT/AB1qsXdxbm +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.24.20" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.24.20" + +Vacumm full done after each run. +pg_resetlog run between each server start + +Scaling factor: 10 +Initialization time: +real 1m32.551s +user 0m1.710s +sys 0m0.130s + +Kernel 2.4.20 +Effective cache size 38400 (300MB) +checkpoint segments=6 + +1)Shared buffers 1000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 145.504917 (including connections establishing) +tps = 147.991299 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 70.785341 (including connections establishing) +tps = 70.849065 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 147.605267 (including connections establishing) +tps = 149.944123 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 55.646866 (including connections establishing) +tps = 55.678399 (excluding connections establishing) + +2) Shared buffers 2000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 140.115444 (including connections establishing) +tps = 142.441377 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 77.015876 (including connections establishing) +tps = 77.084474 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 128.512768 (including connections establishing) +tps = 130.314689 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 55.003077 (including connections establishing) +tps = 55.035001 (excluding connections establishing) + +3) Shared buffers 3000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 153.142499 (including connections establishing) +tps = 156.094637 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 81.391878 (including connections establishing) +tps = 81.472845 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 120.420876 (including connections establishing) +tps = 122.066975 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 56.766460 (including connections establishing) +tps = 56.801117 (excluding connections establishing) + +4) Shared buffers 3000, noatime + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 140.464589 (including connections establishing) +tps = 143.152323 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 94.718161 (including connections establishing) +tps = 94.826618 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 131.925129 (including connections establishing) +tps = 133.826403 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 65.374006 (including connections establishing) +tps = 65.458626 (excluding connections establishing) + +--Boundary-00=_J8MT/AB1qsXdxbm-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:28:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7995D1B8AC + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:52:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 43388-03 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:51:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F36EAD1B52C + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:51:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 25131 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2003 15:51:29 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 27 Aug 2003 15:51:29 -0000 +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:51:29 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +In-Reply-To: <3F4CA308.15268.327E2C9@localhost> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/362 +X-Sequence-Number: 3178 + +Well, installing gcc 3.3.1 and using -mcpu=v9 didn't help. in fact it made +things worse. Unless someone has something clever I'm just gonna stop +tinkering with it - my goal was met (it is several orders of magnitude +faster than informix ) and the hardware is being replaced in a month or +two. + +thanks for the ideas / comments. + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:11:58 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B76BED1B897 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:51:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58414-04 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:50:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B682CD1B8A3 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:50:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 28684 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2003 16:49:26 -0000 +Received: from dsl-217-155-239-50.zen.co.uk (217.155.239.50) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2003 16:49:26 -0000 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: matt +To: "scott.marlowe" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +In-Reply-To: +References: +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: +Message-Id: <1062002965.15800.208.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) +Date: 27 Aug 2003 17:49:25 +0100 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/357 +X-Sequence-Number: 3173 + +> You probably, more than anything, should look at some kind of +> superfast, external storage array + +Yeah, I think that's going to be a given. Low end EMC FibreChannel +boxes can do around 20,000 IOs/sec, which is probably close to good +enough. + +You mentioned using multiple RAID controllers as a boost - presumably +the trick here is to split the various elements (WAL, tables, indexes) +across different controllers using symlinks or suchlike? Can I feasibly +split the DB tables across 5 or more controllers? + +> > Also, and importantly, the load comes but one hour per week, so buying a +> > Starfire isn't a real option, as it'd just sit idle the rest of the +> > time. I'm particularly interested in keeping the cost down, as I'm a +> > shareholder in the company! +> +> Interesting. If you can't spread the load out, can you batch some parts +> of it? Or is the whole thing interactive therefore needing to all be +> done in real time at once? + +All interactive I'm afraid. It's a micropayment system that's going to +be used here in the UK to do online voting for a popular TV programme. +The phone voting system has a hard limit of [redacted] million votes per +hour, and the producers would like to be able to tell people to vote +online if the phone lines are busy. They can vote online anyway, but we +expect the average viewer to have to make 10 calls just to get through +during peak times, so the attraction is obvious. + +> whether you like it or not, you're gonna need heavy iron if you need to do +> this all in one hour once a week. + +Yeah, I need to rent a Starfire for a month later this year, anybody got +one lying around? Near London? + +> Actually, I've seen stuff like that going on Ebay pretty cheap lately. I +> saw a 64 CPU E10k (366 MHz CPUs) with 64 gigs ram and 20 hard drives going +> for $24,000 a month ago. Put Linux or BSD on it and Postgresql should +> fly. + +Jeez, and I thought I was joking about the Starfire. Even Slowaris +would be OK on one of them. + +The financial issue is that there's just not that much money in the +micropayments game for bursty sales. If I was doing these loads +*continuously* then I wouldn't be working, I'd be in the Maldives :-) + +I'm also looking at renting equipment, or even trying out IBM/HP's +'on-demand' offerings. + + + + +From pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:04:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-advocacy-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 81BB4D1B8AB; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:32:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 69516-10; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:31:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from snoopy.oit.edu (snoopy.OIT.EDU [140.211.135.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 7FAC4D1B550; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:31:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from oit.edu (purvine-141-62.oit.edu [140.211.141.62]) + by snoopy.oit.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9/OIT-4.0) with ESMTP id h7RGqFUm028830; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:52:16 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F4CE300.3010205@oit.edu> +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:57:36 -0700 +From: Dennis Gearon +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, ru, es-mx +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: undisclosed-recipients: ; +Subject: Please scan your computer +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/199 +X-Sequence-Number: 2077 + +Someone who has my: + + gearond@oit.edu + +email address has an infected computer, infected with the SoBig.F virus. +I'm getting 200+ infected emails a day from that person(s). + +Go to this site and do a free online virus scan. It's safe, and done by +one of the two top virus scanning companies in world. I've done it +several times. + +http://housecall.antivirus.com/ + +-- +Dennis Gearon + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 21:21:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83B6D1B8AE + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:39:06 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 07657-10 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:38:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11235D1B8E4 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:38:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7RJcJ5H025357; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:38:19 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Marc G. Fournier" +Cc: Chris Travers , + Alvaro Herrera , + Ron Johnson , pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +In-reply-to: <20030826025754.V691@ganymede.hub.org> +References: <3F483EBD.3020108@travelamericas.com> + <1061705587.3733.452.camel@haggis> + <3F4A420E.6090604@travelamericas.com> + <20030825182441.GB9597@dcc.uchile.cl> + <3F4A5724.3060002@travelamericas.com> + <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <20030826025754.V691@ganymede.hub.org> +Comments: In-reply-to "Marc G. Fournier" + message dated "Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:01:26 -0300" +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:38:19 -0400 +Message-ID: <25356.1062013099@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1469 +X-Sequence-Number: 47885 + +"Marc G. Fournier" writes: +> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +>> What makes you say that? My understanding is it's supposed to survive +>> loss of individual servers. + +> How does it play 'catch up' went a server comes back online? + +The recovered server has to run through the part of the GCS data stream +that it missed the first time. This is not conceptually different from +recovering using archived WAL logs (or archived trigger-driven +replication data streams). As with using WAL for recovery, you have to +be able to archive the message stream until you don't need it any more. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 20:46:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940C8D1B897 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:41:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 45034-09 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:40:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ram.rentec.com (ram.rentec.com [192.5.35.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110CAD1BA97 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:40:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from rentec.com (IDENT:618@murre.rentec.com [192.5.35.148]) + by ram.rentec.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h7RLe5YL023567 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:40:06 -0400 (EDT) +Message-ID: <3F4D2535.8050103@rentec.com> +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:40:05 -0400 +From: Michael Guerin +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030703 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Simple queries take forever to run +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/355 +X-Sequence-Number: 3171 + +I'm running into some performance problems trying to execute simple +queries. + +postgresql version 7.3.3 +.conf params changed from defaults. +shared_buffers = 64000 +sort_mem = 64000 +fsync = false +effective_cache_size = 400000 + +ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); + +There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. +x has 1200673 rows +y has 1282 rows + +It seems like its ignoring the index and not using enough memory.. any +ideas? + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 20:27:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEACDD1B550 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:00:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66759-08 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:00:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from home.samurai.com (home.samurai.com [205.207.28.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C86D1B8AB + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:00:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by home.samurai.com (Postfix, from userid 1014) + id 9146D2622F; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:00:14 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:00:14 -0400 +From: Neil Conway +To: Shridhar Daithankar +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Comparing postgresql7.4 CVS head on linux 2.4.20 and 2.6.0-test4 +Message-ID: <20030827230014.GA63737@home.samurai.com> +References: <200308272102.26319.shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <200308272102.26319.shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/354 +X-Sequence-Number: 3170 + +On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:02:25PM +0530, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> IIRC in a kernel release note recently, it was commented that IO scheduler is +> still being worked on and does not perform as much for random seeks, which +> exaclty what database needs. + +Yeah, I've read that as well. It would be interesting to see how 2.6 +performs with the traditional (non-anticipatory) scheduler -- I believe +you can switch from one I/O scheduler to another via a sysctl. + +> pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +> tps = 64.917044 (including connections establishing) +> tps = 65.438067 (excluding connections establishing) + +Interesting that the performance of 2.4.20 for this particular +benchmark is a little less than 3 times faster than 2.6 + +> 3) Shared buffers 3000 +> +> pgbench -c5 -t100 test +> tps = 132.489569 (including connections establishing) +> tps = 135.177003 (excluding connections establishing) +> +> pgbench -c5 -t1000 test +> tps = 70.272855 (including connections establishing) +> tps = 70.343452 (excluding connections establishing) +> +> pgbench -c10 -t100 test +> tps = 121.624524 (including connections establishing) +> tps = 123.549086 (excluding connections establishing) + +[...] + +> 4) noatime enabled Shared buffers 3000 +> +> pgbench -c5 -t100 test +> tps = 90.850600 (including connections establishing) +> tps = 92.053686 (excluding connections establishing) +> +> pgbench -c5 -t1000 test +> tps = 92.209724 (including connections establishing) +> tps = 92.329682 (excluding connections establishing) +> +> pgbench -c10 -t100 test +> tps = 79.264231 (including connections establishing) +> tps = 80.145448 (excluding connections establishing) + +I'm a little skeptical of the consistency of these numbers +(several people have observed in the past that it's difficult +to get pgbench to produce reliable results) -- how is it +possible that using noatime can possibly *reduce* performance +by 50%, in the case of the first and third benchmarks? + +-Neil + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 20:26:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A685D1B8BD + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:07:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66514-10 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:07:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from harrier.cohaesio.com (harrier.cohaesio.com [212.97.128.50]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0B9D1B8AE + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:07:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by harrier.cohaesio.com (Postfix, from userid 88) + id 4126486; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:07:07 +0200 (CEST) +X-Original-To: news2mail@news.cohaesio.com +From: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Subject: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:07:05 +0200 +Organization: Cohaesio A/S +Lines: 31 +Message-ID: +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Trace: harrier.cohaesio.com 1062025626 30491 212.97.128.160 (27 Aug 2003 + 23:07:06 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@news.cohaesio.com +X-Accept-Language: da, en-us, en +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/353 +X-Sequence-Number: 3169 + +Hello, + +We're running a set of Half-Life based game servers that lookup user +privileges from a central PostgreSQL 7.3.4 database server (I recently +ported the MySQL code in Adminmod to PostgreSQL to be able to do this). + +The data needed by the game servers are combined from several different +tables, so we have some views set up to provide the data in the format +needed. + +Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing purposes, +and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have syslog'ing of +queries and duration turned on), but several times per hour the duration +for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times larger), while the +surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. + +This is rather critical, as the game server software isn't asynchonous +and thus waits for a reply before continuing, so when someone connects, +and the user lookup happens to have one of these very long durations, +the players on this server experience a major lag spike, which isn't +very popular :-( + +All the game servers and the database server are connected to the same +switch, so I don't think, that it is a network problem. + +So far I've been unable to locate the problem, so any suggestions are +very welcome. + +Regards, +Anders K. Pedersen + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:28:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B04ED1B8D2 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:39:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 77319-03 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:39:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5731BD1B8AB + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:39:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7RNd95H028673; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:39:09 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +In-reply-to: +References: +Comments: In-reply-to "Anders K. Pedersen" + message dated "Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:07:05 +0200" +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:39:08 -0400 +Message-ID: <28672.1062027548@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/361 +X-Sequence-Number: 3177 + +"Anders K. Pedersen" writes: +> Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing purposes, +> and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have syslog'ing of +> queries and duration turned on), but several times per hour the duration +> for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times larger), while the +> surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. + +One thing that comes to mind is that the slow query could be occurring +at the same time as a checkpoint, or some other cycle-chewing background +operation. It's not clear why a checkpoint would slow things down that +much, though. Anyway I'd suggest looking for such activities; once we +know if that's the issue or not, we can make some progress. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:26:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D9FD1B8A5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:11:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 78302-07 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:11:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from home.samurai.com (home.samurai.com [205.207.28.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189E3D1B8E6 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:11:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by home.samurai.com (Postfix, from userid 1014) + id 430BD26224; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:11:19 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:11:19 -0400 +From: Neil Conway +To: Michael Guerin +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +Message-ID: <20030828001119.GB63737@home.samurai.com> +References: <3F4D2535.8050103@rentec.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4D2535.8050103@rentec.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/360 +X-Sequence-Number: 3176 + +On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:40:05PM -0400, Michael Guerin wrote: +> ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); +> +> There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +> postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. + +This particular form of query is a known performance problem for PostgreSQL +7.3 and earlier -- the problem should hopefully be fixed in 7.4 (currently +in beta). Check the archives for more discussion on this topic. + +-Neil + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:17:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8041FD1B8A3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:14:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 91122-05 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:14:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B307D1B550 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:13:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 581021025B; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:06:07 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [192.168.1.200] (dyn-133-83.tor.dsl.tht.net [134.22.133.83]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 28B2710248; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:06:05 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +From: Rod Taylor +To: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Cc: Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: +References: +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-YhYgy3Doxue4upJh2YKq" +Message-Id: <1062033258.71328.2.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:14:19 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/358 +X-Sequence-Number: 3174 + +--=-YhYgy3Doxue4upJh2YKq +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +> Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing purposes,= +=20 +> and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have syslog'ing of= +=20 +> queries and duration turned on), but several times per hour the duration= +=20 +> for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times larger), while the=20 +> surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. + +Are there any other jobs running at the time of these excessive queries? + +--=-YhYgy3Doxue4upJh2YKq +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/TVdq6DETLow6vwwRAthZAJ9F9d2a/jlNXbV78ppkWXTaGCopFQCfaN1n +Hao4JtQXlcR4cYWY7wbpeGU= +=+wtK +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-YhYgy3Doxue4upJh2YKq-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:25:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9260D1B97C + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:22:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 97972-06 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:22:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BF6D1B9B4 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:22:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id B8B1FD64A; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:22:23 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 9E2E75C11; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:22:23 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:22:23 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Michael Guerin +Cc: +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +In-Reply-To: <3F4D2535.8050103@rentec.com> +Message-ID: <20030827182051.W85397-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/359 +X-Sequence-Number: 3175 + +On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: + +> I'm running into some performance problems trying to execute simple +> queries. +> +> postgresql version 7.3.3 +> .conf params changed from defaults. +> shared_buffers = 64000 +> sort_mem = 64000 +> fsync = false +> effective_cache_size = 400000 +> +> ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); +> +> There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +> postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. + +IN(subquery) is known to run poorly in 7.3.x and earlier. 7.4 is +generally much better (for reasonably sized subqueries) but in earlier +versions you'll probably want to convert into an EXISTS or join form. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:01:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F3E4D1B914 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:27:02 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 97916-07 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:26:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA28D1B8AB + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:26:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7S1QWLt012958; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:26:32 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <010101c36d03$c2dae240$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Michael Guerin" , + +References: <3F4D2535.8050103@rentec.com> +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:29:01 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/368 +X-Sequence-Number: 3184 + +> postgresql version 7.3.3 +> .conf params changed from defaults. +> shared_buffers = 64000 +> sort_mem = 64000 +> fsync = false +> effective_cache_size = 400000 +> +> ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); +> +> There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +> postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. +> x has 1200673 rows +> y has 1282 rows +> +> It seems like its ignoring the index and not using enough memory.. any +> ideas? + +This is a known problem in 7.3, it is much faster in 7.4b1. This should be +very, very fast though, and do exactly the same thing: + +select * from x where exists (select id from y where y.id=x.id); + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 22:57:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF9AD1B91E + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:52:41 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 02334-08 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:52:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A4FD1B916 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:52:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S1qAek049585 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:52:10 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7S1WfNK046229 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:32:41 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:32:16 -0400 +Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc +Lines: 28 +Message-ID: +References: + <1062002965.15800.208.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? +X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ +X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:REqCi3ViYd6EAkWAC+mKyFF6EhY= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/367 +X-Sequence-Number: 3183 + +Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing whenmatt@ymogen.net (matt)wrote: +> I'm also looking at renting equipment, or even trying out IBM/HP's +> 'on-demand' offerings. + +You're assuming that this is likely to lead to REAL savings, and that +seems unlikely. + +During the recent power outage in the NorthEast, people looking for +generators and fuel were paying _premium_ prices, not discounted +prices. + +If your hardware requirement leads to someone having to buy hardware +to support your peak load, then _someone_ has to pay the capital cost, +and that someone is unlikely to be IBM or HP. "Peak demand" equipment +is likely to attract pretty "peaked" prices. + +If you can find someone who needs the hardware during the day, but who +_never_ needs it during your needful hours, then there might be an +arrangement to be had, assuming the "someone else" trusts you to use +what's, at other times, their hardware, and assuming you trust them +with the financial information you're managing. +-- +select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'ntlug.org'; +http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html +Rules of the Evil Overlord #170. "I will be an equal-opportunity +despot and make sure that terror and oppression is distributed fairly, +not just against one particular group that will form the core of a +rebellion." + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:24:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AC8D1B8A5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:22:46 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 13878-01 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:22:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F78D1B95B + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:22:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S2MAek055357 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:22:10 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7S27Wjb052828 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:07:32 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:07:20 -0400 +Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc +Lines: 22 +Message-ID: +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? +X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ +X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:Avfjn3vaxcf7lUjjnf8QraKP8jQ= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/374 +X-Sequence-Number: 3190 + +After takin a swig o' Arrakan spice grog, scott.marlowe@ihs.com +("scott.marlowe") belched out... :-): +> whether you like it or not, you're gonna need heavy iron if you need +> to do this all in one hour once a week. + +The other thing worth considering is trying to see if there is a way +of partitioning the workload across multiple hosts. + +At the point that you start going past hardware that is +"over-the-counter commodity" stuff, the premiums start getting pretty +high. Dual-CPU Intel boxes are pretty cheap compared to buncha-CPU +Sparc boxes. + +If some sort of segmentation of the workload can be done, whether by +area code, postal code, or perhaps the last couple digits of the +caller's phone number, or even a "round robin," it's likely to be a +lot cheaper to get an array of 4 Dual-Xeon boxes with 8 disk drives +apiece than a Sun/HP/IBM box with 16 CPUs. +-- +let name="cbbrowne" and tld="ntlug.org" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;; +http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxxian.html +"Show me... show me... show me... COMPUTERS!" + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Wed Aug 27 23:30:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5B8D1B8E7 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:26:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 13736-06 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:26:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta2.adelphia.net (mta2.adelphia.net [68.168.78.178]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE6AD1B8AC + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:25:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta2.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030828022602.VSNB12648.mta2.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:26:02 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4D6839.2030004@potentialtech.com> +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:26:01 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +References: + <1062002965.15800.208.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + +In-Reply-To: +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/375 +X-Sequence-Number: 3191 + +Christopher Browne wrote: +> Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing whenmatt@ymogen.net (matt)wrote: +> +>>I'm also looking at renting equipment, or even trying out IBM/HP's +>>'on-demand' offerings. +> +> You're assuming that this is likely to lead to REAL savings, and that +> seems unlikely. +> +> During the recent power outage in the NorthEast, people looking for +> generators and fuel were paying _premium_ prices, not discounted +> prices. +> +> If your hardware requirement leads to someone having to buy hardware +> to support your peak load, then _someone_ has to pay the capital cost, +> and that someone is unlikely to be IBM or HP. "Peak demand" equipment +> is likely to attract pretty "peaked" prices. +> +> If you can find someone who needs the hardware during the day, but who +> _never_ needs it during your needful hours, then there might be an +> arrangement to be had, assuming the "someone else" trusts you to use +> what's, at other times, their hardware, and assuming you trust them +> with the financial information you're managing. + +I hadn't considered this, but that's not a bad idea. + +With FreeBSD, you have jails, which allow multiple users to share +hardware without having to worry about user A looking at user B's +stuff. Does such a paradigm exist on any heavy iron? I have no +idea where you'd go to find this kind of "co-op" server leasing, +but it sure sounds like it could work. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 00:05:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DFEBD1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:52:41 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17412-02 + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:52:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51B38D1B52C + for ; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:52:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S2qAek060160 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:52:10 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7S2nYZi059634 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:49:34 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: 8 way Intel Xeon system +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:49:23 -0400 +Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc +Lines: 18 +Message-ID: +References: + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? +X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ +X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:dNWBox8T74183jaTesxyWt8tX/8= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/380 +X-Sequence-Number: 3196 + +After a long battle with technology,tomka@zeus.gau.hu (Tomka Gergely), an earthling, wrote: +> 2003-08-27 ragyog� napj�n Castle, Lindsay ezt �zente: +>> Perhaps some may say Linux isn't the best option for an 8 CPU +>> server but this is what I have to work with for reasons we won't +>> get into :-) +> +> This is not true, 2.4 series AFAIK run nicely on these monstrums. If +> you want some thrill, try 2.6-test series. Linux Is Good For You +> (tm) :) + +The other "bleeding edge" that it'll be interesting to see, um, +"coagulate," is Dragonfly BSD, which plans to do some really +interesting SMP stuff as a fork of FreeBSD... +-- +let name="cbbrowne" and tld="ntlug.org" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];; +http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/nonrdbms.html +"People are more vocally opposed to fur than leather because it's +easier to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs." [bumper sticker] + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 00:33:36 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE82D1B8AD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:16:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 25618-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:15:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4A8D1B8C6 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:15:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S3FZ5H015121; + Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:15:35 -0400 (EDT) +To: Jeff +Cc: Neil Conway , Darcy Buskermolen , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: Sun vs a P2. Interesting results. +In-reply-to: +References: +Comments: In-reply-to Jeff + message dated "Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:33:34 -0400" +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:15:35 -0400 +Message-ID: <15120.1062040535@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/383 +X-Sequence-Number: 3199 + +Jeff writes: +> I'll do a profile for hte p2 and send post that in an hour or two + +Please redo the linux profile after recompiling postmaster.c with +-DLINUX_PROFILE added (I use "make PROFILE='-pg -DLINUX_PROFILE'" +when building for profile on Linux). + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-bugs-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 00:31:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-bugs-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F90D1B97C + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:18:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 23894-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:17:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D923D1B8CC + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:17:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 7371 invoked by uid 500); 28 Aug 2003 03:23:56 -0000 +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:23:56 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: Tarhon-Onu Victor +Cc: pgsql-bugs@postgresql.org, pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] pgsql inserts problem +Message-ID: <20030828032356.GC7185@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: Tarhon-Onu Victor , + pgsql-bugs@postgresql.org, pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/235 +X-Sequence-Number: 6607 + +On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 15:50:32 +0300, + Tarhon-Onu Victor wrote: +> +> The problems is that only ~15% of the lines are inserted into +> the database. The same script modified to insert the same data in a +> similar table created in a MySQL database inserts 100%. + +Did you check the error status for the records that weren't entered? + +My first guess is that you have some bad data you are trying to insert. + +From pgsql-bugs-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 01:13:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-bugs-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id CD5CBD1B8B5; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:59:46 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 31881-08; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:59:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 04AC5D1B8CD; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:59:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7S3x2Lt016361; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:59:02 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <039101c36d19$146ca3e0$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Bruno Wolff III" , + "Tarhon-Onu Victor" +Cc: , +References: + <20030828032356.GC7185@wolff.to> +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] pgsql inserts problem +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:01:37 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/236 +X-Sequence-Number: 6608 + +> > The problems is that only ~15% of the lines are inserted into +> > the database. The same script modified to insert the same data in a +> > similar table created in a MySQL database inserts 100%. +> +> Did you check the error status for the records that weren't entered? +> +> My first guess is that you have some bad data you are trying to insert. + +I wouldn't be surprised, MySQL will just insert a zero instead of failing in +most cases :P + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 01:09:26 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DF7D1B947 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:08:09 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 35316-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:07:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B33D1B8B9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 01:07:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030828040732.THHZ10977.lakemtao03.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:07:32 -0400 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <3F4D6839.2030004@potentialtech.com> +References: + <1062002965.15800.208.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + + <3F4D6839.2030004@potentialtech.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062043655.25752.118.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:07:35 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/385 +X-Sequence-Number: 3201 + +On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 21:26, Bill Moran wrote: +> Christopher Browne wrote: +> > Martha Stewart called it a Good Thing whenmatt@ymogen.net (matt)wrote: +[snip] +> With FreeBSD, you have jails, which allow multiple users to share +> hardware without having to worry about user A looking at user B's +> stuff. Does such a paradigm exist on any heavy iron? I have no + +IBM invented the idea (or maybe stole it) back in the '70s. The +VM hypervisor was designed as a conversion tool, to let customers +run both OS/MVS and DOS/VSE, to aid in converting from VSE to MVS. + +Customers, the cheap, uncooperative beasts, liked VSE, but also liked +VM, since it let them have, for example, a dev, test, and production +"systems" all on the same piece of h/w, thus saving them oodles of +money in h/w costs and maintenance fees. + +Yes, yes, the modern term for this is "server consolidation", and +VMware does the same thing, 30 years after dinosaur customers had +it on boxen that academics, analysts and "young whippersnappers" +said were supposed to be extinct 20 years ago. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Knowledge should be free for all." +Harcourt Fenton Mudd, Star Trek:TOS, "I, Mudd" + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 02:22:06 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEA7D1B8B1 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:22:04 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 56078-05 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:21:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from v2.intertune.com (unknown [209.75.26.20]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D469CD1B8AB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:21:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from MOBILE01 (66-75-2-227.san.rr.com [66.75.2.227]) (authenticated) + by v2.intertune.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7S5gI313831 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:42:18 -0700 +From: "Balazs Wellisch" +To: +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:21:23 -0700 +Message-ID: <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 +Importance: Normal +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/386 +X-Sequence-Number: 3202 + + +Bill, + +Very interesting results. I'd like to command you on your honesty. +Having started out with the intentions of proving that FreeBSD is faster +than Linux only to find that the opposite is true must not have been +rewarding for you. However, these unexpected results serve only to +reinforce the integrity of your tests. + +Thanks for all the work. + +Balazs + + + +-----Original Message----- +From: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org +[mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Bill Moran +Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:48 PM +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: [PERFORM] The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +tests + +Hey all. + +I said I was going to do it, and I finally did it. + +As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +learn a few things from them. + +Intelligent feedback is welcome. + +http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 02:25:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83666D1B8CC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:25:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 56080-07 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:25:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from v2.intertune.com (unknown [209.75.26.20]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C46D1B8B1 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:24:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from MOBILE01 (66-75-2-227.san.rr.com [66.75.2.227]) (authenticated) + by v2.intertune.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7S5jh313844 + for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:45:43 -0700 +From: "Balazs Wellisch" +To: +Subject: Re: Tests +Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:24:48 -0700 +Message-ID: <001301c36d24$b6ab8490$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-2" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 +Importance: Normal +In-Reply-To: +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/387 +X-Sequence-Number: 3203 + + +Nicely done! + +Thanks, + +Balazs + + +-----Original Message----- +From: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org +[mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Tomka +Gergely +Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 5:40 AM +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Tests + +http://mail.sth.sze.hu/~hsz/sql/ + +New, upgraded test results. As we see, the developers works hard, and +with +good results. Million thanks and congratulations. + +Sorry *BSD-lovers, if you send a new hard drive, our tester can do bsd +tests also. Life is hard. + +And last, but not least, thanks for the tests, Horv=E1th Szabolcs + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 03:29:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DEECD1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:29:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 68427-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:29:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from kiwi.iasi.rdsnet.ro (kiwi.iasi.rdsnet.ro [213.157.176.3]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DDD2D1B574 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:29:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro (blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro + [213.157.176.7]) + by kiwi.iasi.rdsnet.ro (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S6T4aM012755 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:29:04 +0300 +Received: from blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id + h7S6T4xv013431 + (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:29:04 +0300 +Received: from localhost (Mituc@localhost) + by blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id + h7S6T36P013427; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:29:03 +0300 +X-Authentication-Warning: blackblue.iasi.rdsnet.ro: Mituc owned process doing + -bs +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:29:03 +0300 (EEST) +From: Tarhon-Onu Victor +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: pgsql inserts problem +In-Reply-To: <20030828032356.GC7185@wolff.to> +Message-ID: +References: + <20030828032356.GC7185@wolff.to> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/388 +X-Sequence-Number: 3204 + +On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Bruno Wolff III wrote: + +> Did you check the error status for the records that weren't entered? +> +> My first guess is that you have some bad data you are trying to insert. + + Of course, I checked the error status for every insert, there is +no error. It seems like in my case the postgres server cannot handle so +much inserts per second some of the lines are not being parsed and data +inserted into the database. + I don't know where can be the problem: in the DBD::Pg Perl DBI +driver or my postgresql server settings are not optimal. + +-- +Any views or opinions presented within this e-mail are solely those of +the author and do not necessarily represent those of any company, unless +otherwise expressly stated. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 03:40:43 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA607D1B574 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:40:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 67100-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:40:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF71DD1B8A5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:39:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7S6dvi29156 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:39:57 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7S6cwV29121; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:38:58 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 1E31A6FCCE; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:38:47 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 132117F6E7; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:38:47 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:38:47 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: matt +Cc: Bill Moran , +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +In-Reply-To: <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/389 +X-Sequence-Number: 3205 + +2003-08-27 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n matt ezt =FCzente: + +> Yeah, I can imagine getting 5% extra from a slim kernel and +> super-optimised PG. + +Hm, about 20%, but only for the correctness - 20% not help you also :( + +> The FS is ext3, metadata journaling (the default), mounted noatime. + +Worst fs under linux :) Try xfs. + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 03:45:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689CDD1B994 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:45:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 70323-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:44:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9811D1B8AD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:43:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7S6ljYm024021 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:17:45 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S6ljhi024008 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:17:45 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:15:14 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4DF252.3395.332BF0F@localhost> +In-reply-to: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/390 +X-Sequence-Number: 3206 + +On 26 Aug 2003 at 21:47, Bill Moran wrote: + +> Hey all. +> +> I said I was going to do it, and I finally did it. +> +> As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +> more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +> should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +> learn a few things from them. +> +> Intelligent feedback is welcome. +> +> http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +Can we have these benchmarks and relevant information stored in a central +archive at techdocs(Say)? + +That would be better than searching mail archives.. + + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- + "... freedom ... is a worship word..." "It is our worship word too." -- Cloud +William and Kirk, "The Omega Glory", stardate unknown + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 03:47:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FDD3D1B4F0 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:47:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69871-05 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:47:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9856BD1B8E7 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:47:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7S6pcu3025539 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:21:38 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S6pchi025526 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:21:38 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:19:07 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4DF33B.11939.3364D27@localhost> +In-reply-to: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/391 +X-Sequence-Number: 3207 + +On 28 Aug 2003 at 1:07, Anders K. Pedersen wrote: + +> Hello, +> +> We're running a set of Half-Life based game servers that lookup user +> privileges from a central PostgreSQL 7.3.4 database server (I recently +> ported the MySQL code in Adminmod to PostgreSQL to be able to do this). +> +> The data needed by the game servers are combined from several different +> tables, so we have some views set up to provide the data in the format +> needed. +> +> Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing purposes, +> and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have syslog'ing of +> queries and duration turned on), but several times per hour the duration +> for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times larger), while the +> surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. + +Check vmstat during the same period if it is syncing at that point as Tom +suggested. + +Are you using pooled connections? If yes you could shorten life of a connection +and force making a new connection every 10-15 minutes say. That would avoid IO +avelanche at the end of the hour types. + +HTH. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +ignorance, n.: When you don't know anything, and someone else finds out. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 03:52:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2D7D1B8A3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:52:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65376-10 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:51:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6927BD1B8A5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:51:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7S6pmi00717 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:51:48 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7S6pjV00693; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:51:45 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 9FB0E6FCCE; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:51:33 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 94A567F6E7; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:51:33 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:51:33 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: Bill Moran +Cc: Christopher Browne , +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +In-Reply-To: <3F4D6839.2030004@potentialtech.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/393 +X-Sequence-Number: 3209 + +2003-08-27 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Bill Moran ezt =FCzente: + +> With FreeBSD, you have jails, which allow multiple users to share +> hardware without having to worry about user A looking at user B's +> stuff. Does such a paradigm exist on any heavy iron? I have no + +Of course. All IBM hw can do this, because on all ibm hw runs linux, and +linux have more ways to do this :) + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 03:50:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B027D1B8AB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:50:48 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69792-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:50:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FED0D1B4F0 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:50:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7S6sX1N026251 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:24:33 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S6sWhi026238 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:24:32 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:22:02 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: pgsql inserts problem +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4DF3EA.6723.338F5D1@localhost> +In-reply-to: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/392 +X-Sequence-Number: 3208 + +On 27 Aug 2003 at 15:50, Tarhon-Onu Victor wrote: + +> +> Hi, +> +> I have a (big) problem with postgresql when making lots of +> inserts per second. I have a tool that is generating an output of ~2500 +> lines per seconds. I write a script in PERL that opens a pipe to that +> tool, reads every line and inserts data. +> I tryed both commited and not commited variants (the inserts +> were commited at every 60 seconds), and the problem persists. + +Assuming one record per line, you are committing after 150K records, that's not +good. + +Try committing every 5 seconds. And open more than one conenction. That will +certainly improve performance. Afterall concurrency is biggest assset of +postgresql. + +Fiddle around with combination and see which works best for you. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Mencken and Nathan's Ninth Law of The Average American: The quality of a +champagne is judged by the amount of noise the cork makes when it is popped. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 03:52:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A82DD1B8A3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:52:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66619-10 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:52:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C493FD1B8B3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:51:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7S6uPKI026911 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:26:25 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S6uOhi026898 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:26:24 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:23:54 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Comparing postgresql7.4 CVS head on linux 2.4.20 and 2.6.0-test4 +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4DF45A.20421.33AABBF@localhost> +In-reply-to: <20030827230014.GA63737@home.samurai.com> +References: <200308272102.26319.shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/394 +X-Sequence-Number: 3210 + +On 27 Aug 2003 at 19:00, Neil Conway wrote: + +> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 09:02:25PM +0530, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> > IIRC in a kernel release note recently, it was commented that IO scheduler is +> > still being worked on and does not perform as much for random seeks, which +> > exaclty what database needs. +> +> Yeah, I've read that as well. It would be interesting to see how 2.6 +> performs with the traditional (non-anticipatory) scheduler -- I believe +> you can switch from one I/O scheduler to another via a sysctl. + +I will repeat the tests after get that setting. Will google for it.. + +> +> > pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +> > tps = 64.917044 (including connections establishing) +> > tps = 65.438067 (excluding connections establishing) +> +> Interesting that the performance of 2.4.20 for this particular +> benchmark is a little less than 3 times faster than 2.6 + +Yeah but 2.4 drops like anything.. +> > 4) noatime enabled Shared buffers 3000 +> > +> > pgbench -c5 -t100 test +> > tps = 90.850600 (including connections establishing) +> > tps = 92.053686 (excluding connections establishing) +> > +> > pgbench -c5 -t1000 test +> > tps = 92.209724 (including connections establishing) +> > tps = 92.329682 (excluding connections establishing) +> > +> > pgbench -c10 -t100 test +> > tps = 79.264231 (including connections establishing) +> > tps = 80.145448 (excluding connections establishing) +> +> I'm a little skeptical of the consistency of these numbers +> (several people have observed in the past that it's difficult +> to get pgbench to produce reliable results) -- how is it +> possible that using noatime can possibly *reduce* performance +> by 50%, in the case of the first and third benchmarks? + +I know. I am puzzled too. Probably I didn't put noatime properly in /etc/fstab. +Unfortunately I have only one linux partition. So I prefer to boot rather than +remounting root. + +I will redo the bechmarks and post the results.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Law of Communications: The inevitable result of improved and enlarged +communications between different levels in a hierarchy is a vastly increased +area of misunderstanding. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 03:56:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346BDD1B8E0 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:56:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71622-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:56:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15CD0D1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 03:56:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7S6uBi01675 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:56:11 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7S6u7V01635; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:56:07 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id DDAEB6FCCE; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:55:55 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id D1C3A7F6E7; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:55:55 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:55:55 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: +Subject: Re: 8 way Intel Xeon system +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/395 +X-Sequence-Number: 3211 + +2003-08-27 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Christopher Browne ezt =FCzente: + +> After a long battle with technology,tomka@zeus.gau.hu (Tomka Gergely), an= + earthling, wrote: +> > 2003-08-27 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Castle, Lindsay ezt =FCzente: +> >> Perhaps some may say Linux isn't the best option for an 8 CPU +> >> server but this is what I have to work with for reasons we won't +> >> get into :-) +> > +> > This is not true, 2.4 series AFAIK run nicely on these monstrums. If +> > you want some thrill, try 2.6-test series. Linux Is Good For You +> > (tm) :) +> +> The other "bleeding edge" that it'll be interesting to see, um, +> "coagulate," is Dragonfly BSD, which plans to do some really +> interesting SMP stuff as a fork of FreeBSD... + +As isee the pages (what a beautiul insect:) tehy not reach te limit of +useability - or i am wrong? + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 04:06:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F9FD1B8BC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:06:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69376-10 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:06:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E94CD1B8B3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:05:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7S7APuN029954 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:40:25 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S7AOhi029941 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:40:24 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:37:53 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4DF7A1.21007.3477A6E@localhost> +In-reply-to: <20030826025754.V691@ganymede.hub.org> +References: <11627.1061845759@sss.pgh.pa.us> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1569 +X-Sequence-Number: 47985 + +On 26 Aug 2003 at 3:01, Marc G. Fournier wrote: + +> +> +> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Tom Lane wrote: +> +> > Chris Travers writes: +> > > Yes I have. Postgres-r is not a high-availability solution which is +> > > capable of transparent failover, +> > +> > What makes you say that? My understanding is it's supposed to survive +> > loss of individual servers. +> +> How does it play 'catch up' went a server comes back online? + + +PITR + archive logs daemon? Chances of a node and an archive log daemon going +down simalrenously are pretty low. If archive log daemon works on another +machin, the MTBF should be pretty acceptable.. + + + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +The Briggs-Chase Law of Program Development: To determine how long it will take +to write and debug a program, take your best estimate, multiply that by two, +add one, and convert to the next higher units. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 04:32:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13AE4D1B8ED + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:32:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71771-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:31:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 037A1D1B8BC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:31:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7S7VULt019852; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:31:30 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <04fa01c36d36$c79099f0$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Tarhon-Onu Victor" , + "Bruno Wolff III" +Cc: +References: + <20030828032356.GC7185@wolff.to> + +Subject: Re: pgsql inserts problem +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:34:12 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/396 +X-Sequence-Number: 3212 + +> Of course, I checked the error status for every insert, there is +> no error. It seems like in my case the postgres server cannot handle so +> much inserts per second some of the lines are not being parsed and data +> inserted into the database. + +That sounds extremely unlikely. Postgres is not one to fail without any +sort of error. There's something else that is the problem. More than +likely, it's a problem in your code. + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 05:11:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C839D1D89A + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:11:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 78528-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:11:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from zigo.dhs.org (as2-4-3.an.g.bonet.se [194.236.34.191]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B90ED1B8B9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:11:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from zigo.dhs.org (zigo [127.0.0.1]) + by zigo.dhs.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7S8B3MG004015; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:11:03 +0200 +Received: from localhost (db@localhost) + by zigo.dhs.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id h7S8B3Uq004011; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:11:03 +0200 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:11:02 +0200 (CEST) +From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dennis_Bj=F6rklund?= +To: Bill Moran +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/397 +X-Sequence-Number: 3213 + +On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Bill Moran wrote: + +> As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +> more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +> should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +> learn a few things from them. + +What version of pg was used in debian and redhat? For freebsd it's 7.2.4 +it says on the page, but I see nothing about the other two. The version +that comes with Redhat 9 (Shrike) is 7.3.2. + +-- +/Dennis + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 05:17:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2A3D1D89A + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:17:55 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 78213-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:17:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E1C5D1DA47 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:17:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 9938 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2003 08:17:22 -0000 +Received: from dsl-217-155-239-50.zen.co.uk (217.155.239.50) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2003 08:17:22 -0000 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: matt +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: +Message-Id: <1062058639.15800.247.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) +Date: 28 Aug 2003 09:17:20 +0100 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/398 +X-Sequence-Number: 3214 + +> Are you *sure* about that???? 3K updates/inserts per second xlates +> to 10,800,000 per hour. That, my friend, is a WHOLE HECK OF A LOT! + +Yup, I know! + +> During the 1 hour surge, will SELECTs at 10 minutes after the +> hour depend on INSERTs at 5 minutes after the hour? + +Yes, they do. It's a payments system, so things like account balances +and purchase histories have to be updated in real time. + +> Only one hour out of 168????? May I ask what kind of app it is? + +Online voting for an unnamed TV show... + +> > If the best price/performance option is a second hand 32-cpu Alpha +> > running VMS I'd be happy to go that way ;-) +> +> I'd love to work on a GS320! You may even pick one up for a million +> or 2. The license costs for VMS & Rdb would eat you, though. + +You'd be amazed how little they do go for actually :-) + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 06:03:12 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D62D1DA3B + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:03:07 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 87119-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:02:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64315D1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:02:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao04.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030828090237.WTER419.lakemtao04.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:02:37 -0400 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <1062058639.15800.247.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> + <1062058639.15800.247.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062061355.25752.164.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:02:36 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/399 +X-Sequence-Number: 3215 + +On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 03:17, matt wrote: +> > Are you *sure* about that???? 3K updates/inserts per second xlates +> > to 10,800,000 per hour. That, my friend, is a WHOLE HECK OF A LOT! +> +> Yup, I know! +> +> > During the 1 hour surge, will SELECTs at 10 minutes after the +> > hour depend on INSERTs at 5 minutes after the hour? +> +> Yes, they do. It's a payments system, so things like account balances +> and purchase histories have to be updated in real time. +> +> > Only one hour out of 168????? May I ask what kind of app it is? +> +> Online voting for an unnamed TV show... +> +> > > If the best price/performance option is a second hand 32-cpu Alpha +> > > running VMS I'd be happy to go that way ;-) +> > +> > I'd love to work on a GS320! You may even pick one up for a million +> > or 2. The license costs for VMS & Rdb would eat you, though. +> +> You'd be amazed how little they do go for actually :-) + +Then that's what I'd do. VMS, Rdb, (your favorite 3GL language). +Presumably the SELECT statements will be direct lookup instead +of range retrieval? If so, then I'd create a *large* amount of +GLOBAL BUFFERS, many MIXED AREAs, tables PLACED VIA HASHED INDEXES +so that the index nodes are on the same page as the corresponding +tuples. Thus, 1 disk I/O gets both the relevant index key, plus +the tuple. (Each I/O reads 3 pages into GBs [Global Buffers], so +that if a later statement needs a records nearby, it's already in +RAM.) + +With fast storage controllers (dual-redundant, with 512MB each) +you could even use RAID5, and your app may not even know the diffie. +Of course, since the requirements are *so* extreme, better still +stick to RAID10. + +I know that a certain pharmaceutical company had a similar situation, +where test results would flood in every morning. A certain North- +eastern US wireless phone company needed to record every time every +phone call was started and stopped. + +The technique I described is how both of these high-volume apps +solved The Need For Speed. + +With VMS 7.3 and Rdb 7.1.04 and, oh, 16GB RAM, a carefully crafted +stored procedure run an hour or 2 before the show could pull the +necessary 5GB slice of the DB into GBs, and you'd reduce the I/O +load during the show itself. + +Sorry it's not PostgreSQL, but I *know* that Rdb+VMS could handle +the task... + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"You ask us the same question every day, and we give you the +same answer every day. Someday, we hope that you will believe us..." +U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, to a reporter + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 06:03:21 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BACD0D1DA57 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:03:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 87179-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:02:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635C7D1B8B5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:02:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from russell ([81.99.189.14]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com + (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP + id <20030828090247.BDEO14590.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@russell> + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:02:47 +0100 +From: "Russell Garrett" +To: +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:02:46 +0100 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) +In-Reply-To: +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +Importance: Normal +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/400 +X-Sequence-Number: 3216 + +We have a somewhat similar situation - we're running a fairly constant, but +low priority, background load of about 70 selects and 40 inserts per second +(batched into fairly large transactions), and on top of that we're trying to +run time-sensitive queries for a web site (well two). I should emphasize +that this is low low priority - if a query is delayed by an hour here, it +doesn't matter. + +The web site queries will jump up one or two orders of magnitude (I have +seen a normally 100ms query take in excess of 30 seconds) in duration at +seemingly random points. It's not always when the transactions are +committing, and it doesn't seem to be during checkpointing either. The same +thing happens with WAL switched off. It appears to happen the first time the +query runs after a while. If I run the same query immediately afterwards, it +will take the normal amount of time. + +Any ideas? + +Cheers, + +Russ Garrett + +pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org wrote: +> Subject: [PERFORM] Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +> +> +> Hello, +> +> We're running a set of Half-Life based game servers that lookup user +> privileges from a central PostgreSQL 7.3.4 database server (I recently +> ported the MySQL code in Adminmod to PostgreSQL to be able to do +> this). +> +> The data needed by the game servers are combined from several +> different tables, so we have some views set up to provide the data in +> the format needed. +> +> Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing +> purposes, and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have +> syslog'ing of queries and duration turned on), but several times per +> hour the duration for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times +> larger), while the surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. +> +> This is rather critical, as the game server software isn't asynchonous +> and thus waits for a reply before continuing, so when someone +> connects, and the user lookup happens to have one of these very long +> durations, the players on this server experience a major lag spike, +> which isn't very popular :-( +> +> All the game servers and the database server are connected to the same +> switch, so I don't think, that it is a network problem. +> +> So far I've been unable to locate the problem, so any suggestions are +> very welcome. +> +> Regards, +> Anders K. Pedersen + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 06:09:29 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A247D1B947 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:09:10 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 85708-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:08:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBE0D1DA4D + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:08:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7S9Cb55010815 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:42:37 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7S9Cahi010802 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:42:37 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:40:03 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4E1443.7646.12E864@localhost> +In-reply-to: +References: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/401 +X-Sequence-Number: 3217 + +On 28 Aug 2003 at 10:02, Russell Garrett wrote: + +> The web site queries will jump up one or two orders of magnitude (I have +> seen a normally 100ms query take in excess of 30 seconds) in duration at +> seemingly random points. It's not always when the transactions are +> committing, and it doesn't seem to be during checkpointing either. The same +> thing happens with WAL switched off. It appears to happen the first time the +> query runs after a while. If I run the same query immediately afterwards, it +> will take the normal amount of time. + +Looks like it got flushed out of every type of cache and IO scheduler could not +deliver immediately because of other loads... + + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Abstainer, n.: A weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a +pleasure. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 06:19:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A93D1DA61 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:19:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 86686-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:19:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98084D1DA4D + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:19:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao04.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030828091922.WUTV419.lakemtao04.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:19:22 -0400 +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062062361.25751.179.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:19:21 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/402 +X-Sequence-Number: 3218 + +On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 20:47, Bill Moran wrote: +> Hey all. +> +> I said I was going to do it, and I finally did it. +> +> As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +> more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +> should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +> learn a few things from them. +> +> Intelligent feedback is welcome. +> +> http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +Hi, + +Woody has pg 7.2.1. Note also that Woody comes with kernel 2.4.18. + +It would be interesting to see how Debian Sid (kernel 2.4.21 and +pg 7.3.3) would perform. + +Thanks for the results! + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Oh, great altar of passive entertainment, bestow upon me thy +discordant images at such speed as to render linear thought impossible" +Calvin, regarding TV + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 06:24:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD349D1B8B5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:23:59 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 89618-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:23:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF73D1B8AD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:23:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao01.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030828092328.JMKF5378.lakemtao01.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:23:28 -0400 +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062062608.25226.182.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:23:29 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/403 +X-Sequence-Number: 3219 + +On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 20:47, Bill Moran wrote: +> Hey all. +> +> I said I was going to do it, and I finally did it. +> +> As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +> more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +> should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +> learn a few things from them. +> +> Intelligent feedback is welcome. +> +> http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +I notice that the Linux FSs weren't tested with noatime. Any +reason? + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"As I like to joke, I may have invented it, but Microsoft made +it popular" +David Bradley, regarding Ctrl-Alt-Del + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 06:29:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53685D1B550 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:29:00 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 85284-10 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:28:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF53D1B947 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:28:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from russell ([81.99.189.14]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com + (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP + id <20030828092829.KUWY9588.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@russell> + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:28:29 +0100 +From: "Russell Garrett" +To: +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:28:29 +0100 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) +In-Reply-To: <3F4E1443.7646.12E864@localhost> +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +Importance: Normal +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/404 +X-Sequence-Number: 3220 + +>> The web site queries will jump up one or two orders of magnitude (I +>> have seen a normally 100ms query take in excess of 30 seconds) in +>> duration at seemingly random points. It's not always when the +>> transactions are committing, and it doesn't seem to be during +>> checkpointing either. The same thing happens with WAL switched off. +>> It appears to happen the first time the query runs after a while. If +>> I run the same query immediately afterwards, it will take the normal +>> amount of time. +> +> Looks like it got flushed out of every type of cache and IO scheduler +> could not deliver immediately because of other loads... + +Yeah, I wasn't sure what (or how) Postgres caches. The db server does have +2Gb of memory, but then again the database amounts to more than 2Gb, so it's +fairly possible it's getting pushed out of cache. It's also fairly possible +that it's not tuned completely optimally. I wonder if FreeBSD/kernel 2.6 +would perform better in such a situation... + +Russ + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 09:22:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F36CD1B8E7 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:22:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06598-05 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:22:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CABE2D1B8B1 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:22:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SCMJem084268 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:22:19 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7SBrCAV076633 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:53:12 GMT +From: Christopher Browne +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:48:07 -0400 +Organization: cbbrowne Computing Inc +Lines: 27 +Message-ID: +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +X-message-flag: Outlook is rather hackable, isn't it? +X-Home-Page: http://www.cbbrowne.com/info/ +X-Affero: http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:6KlW8VHh8eU4/H9nNw98r1rGIpE= +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/406 +X-Sequence-Number: 3222 + +A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, balazs@neusolutions.com ("Balazs Wellisch") wrote: +> Very interesting results. I'd like to command you on your honesty. +> Having started out with the intentions of proving that FreeBSD is faster +> than Linux only to find that the opposite is true must not have been +> rewarding for you. However, these unexpected results serve only to +> reinforce the integrity of your tests. + +Well put. + +To see a result that the tester didn't really want to see/present does +suggest good things about the tester's honesty. There was incentive +to hide unfavorable results. + +What it still leaves quite open is just what happens when the OS has +more than one disk drive or CPU to play with. It's not clear what +happens in such cases, whether FreeBSD would catch up, or be "left +further in the dust." The traditional "propaganda" has been that +there are all sorts of reasons to expect PostgreSQL on FreeBSD to run +a bit faster than on Linux; it is a bit unexpected for the opposite to +seem true. +-- +output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc") +http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html +"I am aware of the benefits of a micro kernel approach. However, the +fact remains that Linux is here, and GNU isn't --- and people have +been working on Hurd for a lot longer than Linus has been working on +Linux." -- Ted T'so, 1992. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 09:05:43 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9096ED1B8A9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:05:41 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 04574-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:05:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from freeman.netbox.cz (freeman.netbox.cz [212.96.166.34]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1816D1D9EE + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:05:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by freeman.netbox.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP + id E6542138244; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:04:40 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from freeman.netbox.cz ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (freeman [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP + id 32422-10; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:04:40 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from smtp.pzkagis.cz (gis.netbox.cz [212.96.173.85]) + by freeman.netbox.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 0CE72138E38; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:04:38 +0200 (CEST) +Received: (from luf@localhost) + by smtp.pzkagis.cz (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7SC55Y18133; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:05:05 +0200 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:05:05 +0200 +From: Ludek Finstrle +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Cc: Bill Moran +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Message-ID: <20030828120505.GA16573@soptik.pzkagis.cz> +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030314-p2 (Debian) at netbox.cz +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/405 +X-Sequence-Number: 3221 + +> Intelligent feedback is welcome. +> +> http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +Good work. But I can't find information about xfs. Do you plan to add +this one FS in test? + +Luf + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 09:25:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1E3D1B8B1 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:25:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06232-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:25:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 228F8D1DA3C + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:25:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 30534 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2003 12:25:18 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 28 Aug 2003 12:25:18 -0000 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:25:18 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Bill Moran +Cc: "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/407 +X-Sequence-Number: 3223 + +On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Bill Moran wrote: + +> +> Intelligent feedback is welcome. +> +That's some good work there, Lou. You'll make sgt for that someday. + +But I think the next step, before trying out other filesystems and options +would be concurrency. Run a bunch of these beasts together and see what +happens (I don't think too many of us have a single session running). +Perhaps even make them "interfere" with each other to create as much +"pain" as possible? + +on a side note - I might be blind here - I didn't see what version of pg +you were using or any postgresql.conf tweaks - or did you just use +whatever came with each distro? + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-bugs-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 11:47:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-bugs-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 0918CD1DA63; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:57:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) + with ESMTP id 12282-02; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:57:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net + [194.217.242.85]) by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP + id BB9D4D1D9F4; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:56:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mwynhau.demon.co.uk ([193.237.186.96] + helo=mainbox.archonet.com) + by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) + id 19sMKZ-0007gP-0Z; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:56:52 +0100 +Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 054A416DC3; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:56:51 +0100 (BST) +Received: from client17.archonet.com (client17.archonet.com [192.168.1.17]) + by mainbox.archonet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 12F9916DA4; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:56:50 +0100 (BST) +From: Richard Huxton +To: Tarhon-Onu Victor , + pgsql-bugs@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] pgsql inserts problem +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:56:49 +0100 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5 +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308281356.49450.dev@archonet.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/240 +X-Sequence-Number: 6612 + +On Wednesday 27 August 2003 13:50, Tarhon-Onu Victor wrote: +> +> shared_buffers = 520 +> max_locks_per_transaction = 128 +> wal_buffers = 8 +> max_fsm_relations = 30000 +> max_fsm_pages = 482000 +> sort_mem = 131072 +> vacuum_mem = 131072 +> effective_cache_size = 10000 +> random_page_cost = 2 + +Slightly off-topic, but I think your tuning settings are a bit out. You've got +4MB allocated to shared_buffers but 128MB allocated to sort_mem? And only +80MB to effective_cache_size? Your settings might be right, but you'd need a +very strange set of circumstances. + +As for PG silently discarding inserts, your best bet might be to write a short +Perl script to reproduce the problem. Without that, people are likely to be +sceptical - if PG tended to do this sort of thing, none of us would use it. + +-- + Richard Huxton + Archonet Ltd + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 10:44:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C777DD1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:44:30 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17981-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:44:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14EDFD1B8EF + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:43:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 0171D10248; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:36:04 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.5] (unknown [10.0.2.5]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 495171024D; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:36:02 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +From: Rod Taylor +To: Bill Moran +Cc: Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-gN9s8XGNhM2qO/kp/76l" +Message-Id: <1062078257.79027.5.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:44:18 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/409 +X-Sequence-Number: 3225 + +--=-gN9s8XGNhM2qO/kp/76l +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Couple of questions: + +What was the postgresql.conf configuration used? Default? + +How many threads of the script ran? Looks like a single user only. + +I assume there was nothing else running at the time (cron, sendmail, +etc. were all off?) + +Do you know whether the machines were disk or I/O bound? + +Was PostgreSQL compiled the same for each OS or did you use the rpm, +deb, tgz that were available? + +On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 21:47, Bill Moran wrote: +> Hey all. +>=20 +> I said I was going to do it, and I finally did it. +>=20 +> As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +> more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +> should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +> learn a few things from them. +>=20 +> Intelligent feedback is welcome. +>=20 +> http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +--=-gN9s8XGNhM2qO/kp/76l +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/Tgcx6DETLow6vwwRApR+AJ9Vjw1f2yzXJanIxNVyaIGmRaCpCwCeO5DL +Ky3s2eNe0c841HSL/AITjug= +=KF6J +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-gN9s8XGNhM2qO/kp/76l-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 10:45:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A804D1DA65 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:45:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 14705-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:45:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E62D1D888 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:45:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7SDjAi27217 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:45:10 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7SDjAV27213 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:45:10 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id E82706FCCE; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:44:58 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED817F6EA + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:44:58 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:44:58 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +Cc: psql performance list +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/410 +X-Sequence-Number: 3226 + +2003-08-28 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Christopher Browne ezt =FCzente: + +> A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, balazs@neusolutions.com ("Bal= +azs Wellisch") wrote: +> > Very interesting results. I'd like to command you on your honesty. +> > Having started out with the intentions of proving that FreeBSD is faster +> > than Linux only to find that the opposite is true must not have been +> > rewarding for you. However, these unexpected results serve only to +> > reinforce the integrity of your tests. +> +> Well put. +> +> To see a result that the tester didn't really want to see/present does +> suggest good things about the tester's honesty. There was incentive +> to hide unfavorable results. +> +> What it still leaves quite open is just what happens when the OS has +> more than one disk drive or CPU to play with. It's not clear what +> happens in such cases, whether FreeBSD would catch up, or be "left +> further in the dust." The traditional "propaganda" has been that +> there are all sorts of reasons to expect PostgreSQL on FreeBSD to run +> a bit faster than on Linux; it is a bit unexpected for the opposite to +> seem true. + +AFAIK *BSD better in the handling of big loads - maybe when multiple +concurrent tests run against a linux and a bsd box, we see better result. +Or not. + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 10:46:27 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F02D1DA71 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:46:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 18385-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:45:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (gate.gau.hu [192.188.242.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8262D1DA67 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:45:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from gate.gau.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7SDjsi27247 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:45:54 +0200 (MEST) +Received: from zeus.gau.hu (zeus.gau.hu [192.188.242.66]) + by gate.gau.hu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/1.0) with ESMTP id h7SDjrV27243; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:45:53 +0200 (MEST) +Received: by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix, from userid 1004) + id 8968B6FCCE; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:45:42 +0200 (CEST) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by zeus.gau.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 803267F6EA; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:45:42 +0200 (CEST) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:45:42 +0200 (CEST) +From: Tomka Gergely +To: Ludek Finstrle +Cc: , Bill Moran +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +In-Reply-To: <20030828120505.GA16573@soptik.pzkagis.cz> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/411 +X-Sequence-Number: 3227 + +2003-08-28 ragyog=F3 napj=E1n Ludek Finstrle ezt =FCzente: + +> > Intelligent feedback is welcome. +> > +> > http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php +> +> Good work. But I can't find information about xfs. Do you plan to add +> this one FS in test? + +http://mail.sth.sze.hu/~hsz/sql/ + + + +--=20 +Tomka Gergely +"S most - vajon barb=E1rok n=E9lk=FCl mi lesz vel=FCnk? +=D5k m=E9giscsak megold=E1s voltak valahogy..." + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 11:09:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C013D1B8CF + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:09:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 21614-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:09:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wired.hub.org (u173n10.eastlink.ca [24.224.173.10]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631B1D1B8AE + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:09:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([192.168.1.3]) + by wired.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SE87N2003385; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:08:07 -0300 (ADT) + (envelope-from excalibur@hub.org) +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Chris Bowlby +Reply-To: excalibur@hub.org +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> +Content-Type: text/plain +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Message-Id: <1062079515.88334.24.camel@morpheus> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:05:17 -0300 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/412 +X-Sequence-Number: 3228 + +On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 23:59, Ron Johnson wrote: + +> What a fun exercises. Ok, lets see: +> Postgres 7.3.4 +> RH AS 2.1 +> 12GB RAM +> motherboard with 64 bit 66MHz PCI slots +> 4 - Xenon 3.0GHz (1MB cache) CPUs +> 8 - 36GB 15K RPM as RAID10 on a 64 bit 66MHz U320 controller +> having 512MB cache (for database) +> 2 - 36GB 15K RPM as RAID1 on a 64 bit 66MHz U320 controller +> having 512MB cache (for OS, swap, WAL files) +> 1 - library tape drive plugged into the OS' SCSI controller. I +> prefer DLT, but that's my DEC bias. +> 1 - 1000 volt UPS. + + Be careful here, we've seen that with the P4 Xeon's that are +hyper-threaded and a system that has very high disk I/O causes the +system to be sluggish and slow. But after disabling the hyper-threading +itself, our system flew.. + +-- +Chris Bowlby +Hub.Org Networking Services + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 11:22:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76498D1D9EE + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:22:02 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 22099-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:21:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C053AD1DA4D + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:21:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7SEPoLw005860 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:55:50 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SEPnhi005832 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:55:49 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:53:13 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> +In-reply-to: <1062079515.88334.24.camel@morpheus> +References: <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/413 +X-Sequence-Number: 3229 + +On 28 Aug 2003 at 11:05, Chris Bowlby wrote: + +> On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 23:59, Ron Johnson wrote: +> +> > What a fun exercises. Ok, lets see: +> > Postgres 7.3.4 +> > RH AS 2.1 +> > 12GB RAM +> > motherboard with 64 bit 66MHz PCI slots +> > 4 - Xenon 3.0GHz (1MB cache) CPUs +> > 8 - 36GB 15K RPM as RAID10 on a 64 bit 66MHz U320 controller +> > having 512MB cache (for database) +> > 2 - 36GB 15K RPM as RAID1 on a 64 bit 66MHz U320 controller +> > having 512MB cache (for OS, swap, WAL files) +> > 1 - library tape drive plugged into the OS' SCSI controller. I +> > prefer DLT, but that's my DEC bias. +> > 1 - 1000 volt UPS. +> +> Be careful here, we've seen that with the P4 Xeon's that are +> hyper-threaded and a system that has very high disk I/O causes the +> system to be sluggish and slow. But after disabling the hyper-threading +> itself, our system flew.. + +Anybody has opteron working? Hows' the performance? + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +A father doesn't destroy his children. -- Lt. Carolyn Palamas, "Who Mourns for +Adonais?", stardate 3468.1. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 11:38:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A599CD1DA77 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:38:44 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 23283-07 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:38:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ram.rentec.com (ram.rentec.com [192.5.35.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43142D1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:38:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from rentec.com (IDENT:618@murre.rentec.com [192.5.35.148]) + by ram.rentec.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h7SEc7w5000586; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:38:08 -0400 (EDT) +Message-ID: <3F4E13CF.7080202@rentec.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:38:07 -0400 +From: Michael Guerin +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030703 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Stephan Szabo +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +References: <20030827182051.W85397-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030827182051.W85397-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/414 +X-Sequence-Number: 3230 + +Stephan Szabo wrote: + +>On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +> +> +> +>>I'm running into some performance problems trying to execute simple +>>queries. +>> +>>postgresql version 7.3.3 +>>.conf params changed from defaults. +>>shared_buffers = 64000 +>>sort_mem = 64000 +>>fsync = false +>>effective_cache_size = 400000 +>> +>>ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); +>> +>>There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +>>postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. +>> +>> +> +>IN(subquery) is known to run poorly in 7.3.x and earlier. 7.4 is +>generally much better (for reasonably sized subqueries) but in earlier +>versions you'll probably want to convert into an EXISTS or join form. +> +> +> +> +Something else seems to be going on, even switching to an exists clause +gives much better but poor performance. +count(*) where exists clause: Postgresql 19s, SQL Server <1s +count(*) where not exists: 23.3s SQL Server 1.5s + +SQL Server runs on a dual 1.4 with 4gigs, win2k +Postgresql runs on a quad 900 with 8 gigs, sunos 5.8 + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 11:40:30 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E8ED1DA67 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:39:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26183-01 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:39:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com (lorax.kciLink.com [206.112.95.1]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B758FD1DA5B + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:39:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by lorax.kciLink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D8C3E24 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:39:05 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (lorax.kciLink.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) + with SMTP id 83540-03 for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:38:54 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by lorax.kciLink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33323E07 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:38:54 -0400 (EDT) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by lorax.kciLink.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h7SEcsw0095679 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:38:54 -0400 (EDT) +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Path: not-for-mail +From: Vivek Khera +Newsgroups: ml.postgres.performance +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:38:54 -0400 +Organization: Khera Communications, Inc., Rockville, MD +Lines: 23 +Message-ID: +References: +NNTP-Posting-Host: yertle.kcilink.com +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Trace: lorax.kciLink.com 1062081534 70958 216.194.193.105 (28 Aug 2003 + 14:38:54 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: daemon@kciLink.com +NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:38:54 +0000 (UTC) +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, + berkeley-unix) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:MSU5ZEGWMrhK+vkcq+fG/5pfm3c= +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at kciLink.com +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/415 +X-Sequence-Number: 3231 + + +sm> On 27 Aug 2003, matt wrote: + +>> My app is likely to come under some serious load in the next 6 months, +>> but the increase will be broadly predictable, so there is time to throw +>> hardware at the problem. +>> +>> Currently I have a ~1GB DB, with the largest (and most commonly accessed +>> and updated) two tables having 150,000 and 50,000 rows. + +Just how big do you expect your DB to grow? For a 1GB disk-space +database, I'd probably just splurge for an SSD hooked up either via +SCSI or FibreChannel. Heck, up to about 5Gb or so it is not that +expensive (about $25k) and adding another 5Gb should set you back +probably another $20k. I use an SSD from Imperial Technology +( http://www.imperialtech.com/ ) for mail spools. My database is way +to big for my budget to put in SSD. + +-- +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= +Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc. +Internet: khera@kciLink.com Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497 +AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/ + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 11:55:01 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3884D1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:42:06 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 24756-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:41:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B36D1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:41:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id D99DE1025B; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:33:38 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.5] (unknown [10.0.2.5]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id E479B10248; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:33:36 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Rod Taylor +To: matt +Cc: Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +References: <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-8Ri+bSb4TjfLFIlUn21U" +Message-Id: <1062081711.79027.55.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:41:52 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/417 +X-Sequence-Number: 3233 + +--=-8Ri+bSb4TjfLFIlUn21U +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +> I need to increase the overall performance by a factor of 10, while at +> the same time the DB size increases by a factor of 50. e.g. 3000 +> inserts/updates or 25,000 selects per second, over a 25GB database with +> most used tables of 5,000,000 and 1,000,000 rows. + +Ok.. I would be surprised if you needed much more actual CPU power. I +suspect they're mostly idle waiting on data -- especially with a Quad +Xeon (shared memory bus is it not?). + +I'd be looking to get your hands on a large pSeries machine from IBM or +perhaps an 8-way Opteron (not that hard to come by today, should be easy +in the near future). The key is low latency ram tied to a chip rather +than a centralized bus -- a 3800 SunFire would do too ;). + +Write performance won't matter very much. 3000 inserts/second isn't high +-- some additional battery backed write cache may be useful but not +overly important with enough ram to hold the complete dataset. I suspect +those are slow due to things like foreign keys -- which of course are=20 +selects. + +> Notably, the data is very time-sensitive, so the active dataset at any +> hour is almost certainly going to be more on the order of 5GB than 25GB +> (plus I'll want all the indexes in RAM of course). + +Very good. Find yourself 8GB to 12GB ram and you should be fine. In this +case, additional ram will keep the system from hitting the disk for +writes as well. + +You may want to play around with checkpoints. Prevention of a checkpoint +during this hour will help prevent peaks. Be warned though, WAL will +grow very large, and recovery time should a crash occur could be +painful. + +You say the data is very time sensitive -- how time sensitive? Are the +selects all based on this weeks data? A copy of the database on a second +machine (say your Quad Xeon) for static per client data would be very +useful to reduce needless load. I assume the application servers have +already cached any static global data by this point. + +Finally, upgrade to 7.4. Do use prepared statements. Do limit the number +of connections any given application server is allowed (especially for +short transactions). 3 PostgreSQL processes per CPU (where the box limit +is not Disk) seems to be about right -- your OS may vary. + +Pre-calculate anything you can. Are the $ amounts for a transaction +generally the the same? Do you tend to have repeat clients? Great -- +make your current clients transactions a day in advance. Now you have a +pair of selects and 1 update (mark it with the time the client actually +approved it). If the client doesn't approve of the pre-calculated +transaction, throw it away at some later time. + +--=-8Ri+bSb4TjfLFIlUn21U +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/ThSu6DETLow6vwwRAvAKAJ45oyRPzstiRHLsN2kHrWUzNbhN8QCfVTC8 +IG0hzGbNR9gS57QkEA+C7Fw= +=TChY +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-8Ri+bSb4TjfLFIlUn21U-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 11:48:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B314AD1DA57 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:44:21 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26183-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:43:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6411D1DA4D + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:43:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7SEmHTx012387 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:18:17 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SEmGhi012374 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:18:16 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:15:40 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4E62EC.15091.71172C@localhost> +In-reply-to: <3F4E13CF.7080202@rentec.com> +References: <20030827182051.W85397-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/416 +X-Sequence-Number: 3232 + +On 28 Aug 2003 at 10:38, Michael Guerin wrote: +> >IN(subquery) is known to run poorly in 7.3.x and earlier. 7.4 is +> >generally much better (for reasonably sized subqueries) but in earlier +> >versions you'll probably want to convert into an EXISTS or join form. +> Something else seems to be going on, even switching to an exists clause +> gives much better but poor performance. +> count(*) where exists clause: Postgresql 19s, SQL Server <1s +> count(*) where not exists: 23.3s SQL Server 1.5s + +This was with 7.4? Can you try downloading 7.4CVS and try? + +> +> SQL Server runs on a dual 1.4 with 4gigs, win2k +> Postgresql runs on a quad 900 with 8 gigs, sunos 5.8 + +SunOS...Not the impala out there but anyways I would refrain from slipping in +that.. + +Parden me if this is a repeatation, have you set your effective cache size? + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +Nouvelle cuisine, n.: French for "not enough food".Continental breakfast, n.: +English for "not enough food".Tapas, n.: Spanish for "not enough food".Dim Sum, +n.: Chinese for more food than you've ever seen in your entire life. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 12:31:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57364D1B8B4 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:31:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33815-07 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:30:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A868CD1B8BD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:30:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id C9A58D627; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:19:53 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id B67515C0E; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:19:53 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:19:53 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Michael Guerin +Cc: +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +In-Reply-To: <3F4E13CF.7080202@rentec.com> +Message-ID: <20030828081914.A6403-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/418 +X-Sequence-Number: 3234 + +On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: + +> Stephan Szabo wrote: +> +> >On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +> > +> > +> > +> >>I'm running into some performance problems trying to execute simple +> >>queries. +> >> +> >>postgresql version 7.3.3 +> >>.conf params changed from defaults. +> >>shared_buffers = 64000 +> >>sort_mem = 64000 +> >>fsync = false +> >>effective_cache_size = 400000 +> >> +> >>ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); +> >> +> >>There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +> >>postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. +> >> +> >> +> > +> >IN(subquery) is known to run poorly in 7.3.x and earlier. 7.4 is +> >generally much better (for reasonably sized subqueries) but in earlier +> >versions you'll probably want to convert into an EXISTS or join form. +> > +> > +> > +> > +> Something else seems to be going on, even switching to an exists clause +> gives much better but poor performance. +> count(*) where exists clause: Postgresql 19s, SQL Server <1s +> count(*) where not exists: 23.3s SQL Server 1.5s + +What does explain analyze show for the two queries? + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 12:35:52 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B88D1B8B1 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:35:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 36291-04 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:35:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 368FFD1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:35:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SFYIp5007365; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:34:20 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:33:15 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: matt +Cc: +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +In-Reply-To: <1062002965.15800.208.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner-ihs-com: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck-ihs-com: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/419 +X-Sequence-Number: 3235 + +On 27 Aug 2003, matt wrote: + +> > You probably, more than anything, should look at some kind of +> > superfast, external storage array +> +> Yeah, I think that's going to be a given. Low end EMC FibreChannel +> boxes can do around 20,000 IOs/sec, which is probably close to good +> enough. +> +> You mentioned using multiple RAID controllers as a boost - presumably +> the trick here is to split the various elements (WAL, tables, indexes) +> across different controllers using symlinks or suchlike? Can I feasibly +> split the DB tables across 5 or more controllers? + +I'm not sure I'd split the tables by hand right up front. Try getting as +many hard drives as you can afford hooked up at once, and then try +different ways of partitioning them. I'm guessing that making two fairly +good sized 1+0 sets, one for data and one for WAL might be the best +answer. + +> > Actually, I've seen stuff like that going on Ebay pretty cheap lately. I +> > saw a 64 CPU E10k (366 MHz CPUs) with 64 gigs ram and 20 hard drives going +> > for $24,000 a month ago. Put Linux or BSD on it and Postgresql should +> > fly. +> +> Jeez, and I thought I was joking about the Starfire. Even Slowaris +> would be OK on one of them. +> +> The financial issue is that there's just not that much money in the +> micropayments game for bursty sales. If I was doing these loads +> *continuously* then I wouldn't be working, I'd be in the Maldives :-) + +$24,000 isn't that much for a server really, and if you can leverage this +one "sale" to get more, then it would likely pay for itself over time. + +If you have problems keeping up with load, it will be harder to get more +customers, so you kinda wanna do this as well as possible the first time. + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:23:38 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5ACD1B8E5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:23:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69053-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:23:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.ext.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02840D1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:23:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id AFF8F21058; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:23:01 -0700 (PDT) +Resent-From: sean@chittenden.org +Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:23:01 -0700 +Resent-Message-ID: <20030828182301.GJ83759@perrin.nxad.com> +Resent-To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:12:33 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: Christopher Browne +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Message-ID: <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/431 +X-Sequence-Number: 3247 + +> What it still leaves quite open is just what happens when the OS has +> more than one disk drive or CPU to play with. It's not clear what +> happens in such cases, whether FreeBSD would catch up, or be "left +> further in the dust." The traditional "propaganda" has been that +> there are all sorts of reasons to expect PostgreSQL on FreeBSD to +> run a bit faster than on Linux; it is a bit unexpected for the +> opposite to seem true. + +Let me nip this in the butt before people run away with ideas that +aren't correct. When the tests were performed in FreeBSD 5.1 and +Linux, the hard drives were running UDMA. When running 4.8, for some +reason his drives settled in on PIO mode: + +ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) falling back to PIO mode + +The benchmarks were hardly conclusive as UDMA runs vastly faster than +PIO. Until we hear back as to whether cables were jarred loose +between the tests or hearing if something else changed, I'd hardly +consider these conclusive tests given PIO/UDMA is apples to oranges in +terms of speed and I fully expect that FreeBSD 4.8 will perform at +least faster than 5.1 (5.x is still being unwound from Giant), but +should out perform Linux as well if industry experience iss any +indicator. + +-sc + +-- +Sean Chittenden + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 13:20:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE03FD1B8B3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:20:26 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 47215-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:19:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A05CD1B8B1 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:19:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19sPV5-0007wq-00 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:19:55 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id 3DE77CF47; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:19:53 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:19:53 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Message-ID: <20030828161953.GG16942@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: + <1062002965.15800.208.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <1062002965.15800.208.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/420 +X-Sequence-Number: 3236 + +On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:49:25PM +0100, matt wrote: +> +> I'm also looking at renting equipment, or even trying out IBM/HP's +> 'on-demand' offerings. + +To handle that kind of load, you're not going to be able to do it +with cheap hardware. Renting may be your answer. + +a + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 13:31:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE286D1B8AD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:31:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 47404-04 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:30:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B6529D1B8A9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:30:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 25853 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2003 16:29:36 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO solent) (213.165.136.12) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2003 16:29:36 -0000 +From: "Matt Clark" +To: "Vivek Khera" , + +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:29:39 +0100 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) +Importance: Normal +In-Reply-To: +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/421 +X-Sequence-Number: 3237 + +> Just how big do you expect your DB to grow? For a 1GB disk-space +> database, I'd probably just splurge for an SSD hooked up either via +> SCSI or FibreChannel. Heck, up to about 5Gb or so it is not that +> expensive (about $25k) and adding another 5Gb should set you back +> probably another $20k. I use an SSD from Imperial Technology +> ( http://www.imperialtech.com/ ) for mail spools. My database is way +> to big for my budget to put in SSD. + +I may well be able to split some tables that aren't used in joins into a separate DB, and could well use an SSD for those. + +In fact two of the inserts per user interaction could be split off, and they're not financially important tables, so fsync=false +could be enabled for those, in which case an SSD might be overkill... + +The whole thing will definitely *not* fit in an SSD for a sensible price, but the WAL might well! + + + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 13:42:42 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F049D1B8B3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:42:41 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 49772-01 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:42:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CF646D1B8AB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:42:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 27964 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2003 16:37:21 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO solent) (213.165.136.12) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2003 16:37:21 -0000 +From: "Matt Clark" +To: "Rod Taylor" +Cc: "Postgresql Performance" +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:37:24 +0100 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) +Importance: Normal +In-Reply-To: <1062081711.79027.55.camel@jester> +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/422 +X-Sequence-Number: 3238 + +> Ok.. I would be surprised if you needed much more actual CPU power. I +> suspect they're mostly idle waiting on data -- especially with a Quad +> Xeon (shared memory bus is it not?). + +In reality the CPUs get pegged: about 65% PG and 35% system. But I agree that memory throughput and latency is an issue. + +> Write performance won't matter very much. 3000 inserts/second isn't high +> -- some additional battery backed write cache may be useful but not +> overly important with enough ram to hold the complete dataset. I suspect +> those are slow due to things like foreign keys -- which of course are +> selects. + +3000 inserts/sec isn't high when they're inside one transaction, but if each is inside its own transaction then that's 3000 +commits/second. + +> case, additional ram will keep the system from hitting the disk for +> writes as well. + +How does that work? + +> You may want to play around with checkpoints. Prevention of a checkpoint +> during this hour will help prevent peaks. Be warned though, WAL will +> grow very large, and recovery time should a crash occur could be +> painful. + +Good point. I'll have a think about that. + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 14:22:56 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E77D1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:22:54 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58101-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:22:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3CED1B574 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:22:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SHMMek070239 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:22:22 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7SHFv9T068699 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:15:57 GMT +From: teknokrat +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: performance of foreign key constraints +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:15:57 +0100 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 7 +Message-ID: +Reply-To: teknokrat@yahoo.com +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0+) Gecko/20020518 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ko +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/423 +X-Sequence-Number: 3239 + +I have a table that has about 20 foreign key constraints on it. I think +this is a bit excessive and am considering removing them ( they are all +related to the same table and I don't think there is much chance of any +integrity violations ). Would this improve performance or not? + +thanks + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 14:26:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10681D1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:26:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58776-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:25:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C8FD1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:25:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19sQWi-0000gG-00 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:25:40 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id E92E7D0AA; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:25:39 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:25:39 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: performance of foreign key constraints +Message-ID: <20030828172539.GA17195@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/424 +X-Sequence-Number: 3240 + +On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 06:15:57PM +0100, teknokrat wrote: +> I have a table that has about 20 foreign key constraints on it. I think +> this is a bit excessive and am considering removing them ( they are all +> related to the same table and I don't think there is much chance of any +> integrity violations ). Would this improve performance or not? + +Almost certainly. But there's probably room for some middle ground +between 20 and none. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 14:28:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9F3D1B8A9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:28:54 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58101-04 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:28:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2542D1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:28:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 08A58D595; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:28:20 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id F29315C02; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:28:19 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:28:19 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: teknokrat +Cc: +Subject: Re: performance of foreign key constraints +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: <20030828102646.Q9762-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/425 +X-Sequence-Number: 3241 + +On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, teknokrat wrote: + +> I have a table that has about 20 foreign key constraints on it. I think +> this is a bit excessive and am considering removing them ( they are all +> related to the same table and I don't think there is much chance of any +> integrity violations ). Would this improve performance or not? + +It depends on your frequency of inserts/updates to the table with the +constraint and the frequency of update/delete to the table(s) being +refered to. My guess is probably. You may wish to leave some of the +constraints (decide which are the most important), but 20 does seem a bit +excessive in general. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 14:43:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA38D1B8A4 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:43:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 60654-01 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:42:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ram.rentec.com (ram.rentec.com [192.5.35.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C92ED1B8BC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:42:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from rentec.com (IDENT:618@murre.rentec.com [192.5.35.148]) + by ram.rentec.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h7SHgZw5011314; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:42:35 -0400 (EDT) +Message-ID: <3F4E3F0B.9000802@rentec.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:42:35 -0400 +From: Michael Guerin +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030703 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Stephan Szabo +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +References: <20030828081914.A6403-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030828081914.A6403-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/426 +X-Sequence-Number: 3242 + +Stephan Szabo wrote: + +>On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +> +> +> +>>Stephan Szabo wrote: +>> +>> +>> +>>>On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>>>I'm running into some performance problems trying to execute simple +>>>>queries. +>>>> +>>>>postgresql version 7.3.3 +>>>>.conf params changed from defaults. +>>>>shared_buffers = 64000 +>>>>sort_mem = 64000 +>>>>fsync = false +>>>>effective_cache_size = 400000 +>>>> +>>>>ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); +>>>> +>>>>There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +>>>>postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> +>>>IN(subquery) is known to run poorly in 7.3.x and earlier. 7.4 is +>>>generally much better (for reasonably sized subqueries) but in earlier +>>>versions you'll probably want to convert into an EXISTS or join form. +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>Something else seems to be going on, even switching to an exists clause +>>gives much better but poor performance. +>>count(*) where exists clause: Postgresql 19s, SQL Server <1s +>>count(*) where not exists: 23.3s SQL Server 1.5s +>> +>> +> +>What does explain analyze show for the two queries? +> +> +> +> +explain analyze select count(*) from tbltimeseries where exists(select +uniqid from tblobjectname where timeseriesid = uniqid); +Aggregate (cost=5681552.18..5681552.18 rows=1 width=0) (actual +time=22756.64..22756.64 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on tbltimeseries (cost=0.00..5680051.34 rows=600336 +width=0) (actual time=22.06..21686.78 rows=1200113 loops=1) + Filter: (NOT (subplan)) + SubPlan + -> Index Scan using idx_objectname on tblobjectname +(cost=0.00..4.70 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=0 +loops=1200673) + Index Cond: ($0 = uniqid) + Total runtime: 22756.83 msec +(7 rows) + +fiasco=# explain analyze select count(*) from tbltimeseries where +exists(select uniqid from tblobjectname where timeseriesid = uniqid); + QUERY +PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +explain analyze select count(*) from tbltimeseries where exists(select +uniqid from tblobjectname where timeseriesid = uniqid); + Aggregate (cost=5681552.18..5681552.18 rows=1 width=0) (actual +time=19558.77..19558.77 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on tbltimeseries (cost=0.00..5680051.34 rows=600336 +width=0) (actual time=0.21..19557.73 rows=560 loops=1) + Filter: (subplan) + SubPlan + -> Index Scan using idx_objectname on tblobjectname +(cost=0.00..4.70 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=0 +loops=1200673) + Index Cond: ($0 = uniqid) + Total runtime: 19559.04 msec +(7 rows) + + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:22:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F0ED1B8CD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:22:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65798-07 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:22:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07A1D1B8BC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:22:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SIMMek087739 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:22:22 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7SHsd2S079486 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:54:39 GMT +From: teknokrat +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: performance of foreign key constraints +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:54:40 +0100 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 25 +Message-ID: +References: + <20030828102646.Q9762-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +Reply-To: teknokrat@yahoo.com +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0+) Gecko/20020518 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ko +In-Reply-To: <20030828102646.Q9762-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/430 +X-Sequence-Number: 3246 + +Stephan Szabo wrote: + +> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, teknokrat wrote: +> +> +>>I have a table that has about 20 foreign key constraints on it. I think +>>this is a bit excessive and am considering removing them ( they are all +>>related to the same table and I don't think there is much chance of any +>>integrity violations ). Would this improve performance or not? +> +> +> It depends on your frequency of inserts/updates to the table with the +> constraint and the frequency of update/delete to the table(s) being +> refered to. My guess is probably. You may wish to leave some of the +> constraints (decide which are the most important), but 20 does seem a bit +> excessive in general. +> + +The references are all to the same table i.e. they are employee ids, so +leaving some and not others would make no sense. The table has no +deletes, small amount of inserts and moderate amount of updates. However +there are many selects and its their performance I am most concerned with. + +thanks + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:00:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A939CD1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:00:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 60572-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:59:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from harrier.cohaesio.com (harrier.cohaesio.com [212.97.128.50]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99A8D1B8E7 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:59:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by harrier.cohaesio.com (Postfix, from userid 88) + id 5B39987; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:59:10 +0200 (CEST) +X-Original-To: news2mail@news.cohaesio.com +From: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:59:09 +0200 +Organization: Cohaesio A/S +Lines: 28 +Message-ID: +References: + <1062033258.71328.2.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Trace: harrier.cohaesio.com 1062093549 9649 212.97.128.160 (28 Aug 2003 + 17:59:09 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@news.cohaesio.com +X-Accept-Language: da, en-us, en +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/427 +X-Sequence-Number: 3243 + +Rod Taylor wrote: +>>Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing purposes, +>>and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have syslog'ing of +>>queries and duration turned on), but several times per hour the duration +>>for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times larger), while the +>>surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. +> +> Are there any other jobs running at the time of these excessive queries? + +I don't know if you're referring to jobs inside the PostgreSQL database +or just jobs on the server, but I'm pretty sure that nothing major is +going on inside the database - the only other job using it is doing an +insert whenever one of our game admins executes an administrative +command (like ban or kick), but this doesn't happen all that often, and +according the PostgreSQL log isn't happening at the same times as the +long queries. + +With regards to other jobs on the server, there is a MySQL server on it +as well, which from time to time has some multi-second queries generated +from a webserver also on this host, but the MySQL is running with nice +10 (PostgreSQL isn't nice'd). + +Someone else asked about vmstat results, and I've been running this for +a while now, and I will report the results shortly. + +Regards, +Anders K. Pedersen + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:17:10 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F505D1B8BD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:17:07 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 61986-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:16:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from harrier.cohaesio.com (harrier.cohaesio.com [212.97.128.50]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA35D1B8A9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:16:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by harrier.cohaesio.com (Postfix, from userid 88) + id B117A86; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:16:35 +0200 (CEST) +X-Original-To: news2mail@news.cohaesio.com +From: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:16:34 +0200 +Organization: Cohaesio A/S +Lines: 78 +Message-ID: +References: + <3F4DF33B.11939.3364D27@localhost> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Trace: harrier.cohaesio.com 1062094595 10051 212.97.128.160 (28 Aug 2003 + 18:16:35 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@news.cohaesio.com +X-Accept-Language: da, en-us, en +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/428 +X-Sequence-Number: 3244 + +Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> On 28 Aug 2003 at 1:07, Anders K. Pedersen wrote: +>>We're running a set of Half-Life based game servers that lookup user +>>privileges from a central PostgreSQL 7.3.4 database server (I recently +>>ported the MySQL code in Adminmod to PostgreSQL to be able to do this). +>> +>>The data needed by the game servers are combined from several different +>>tables, so we have some views set up to provide the data in the format +>>needed. +>> +>>Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing purposes, +>>and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have syslog'ing of +>>queries and duration turned on), but several times per hour the duration +>>for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times larger), while the +>>surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. +> +> +> Check vmstat during the same period if it is syncing at that point as Tom +> suggested. + +I've been running a vmstat 1 logging process for a while now, and the +sample below shows what happende around one of these spikes - at +18:18:03 specifically (actually there were two 1 second long queries, +that finished at 18:18:03). + +Thu Aug 28 18:17:53 2003 0 0 0 40904 4568 22288 404352 0 0 +12 0 181 362 2 1 97 +Thu Aug 28 18:17:54 2003 0 0 0 40904 4580 22260 404380 0 0 +128 0 205 330 2 3 95 +Thu Aug 28 18:17:55 2003 0 0 2 40904 4576 22264 404380 0 0 + 0 284 224 127 0 1 99 +Thu Aug 28 18:17:56 2003 0 0 2 40904 5008 22268 404512 0 0 +128 728 571 492 2 3 95 +Thu Aug 28 18:17:57 2003 0 0 1 40904 5000 22276 404512 0 0 + 0 120 201 181 1 0 99 +Thu Aug 28 18:17:58 2003 0 0 1 40904 4936 22284 404528 0 0 + 8 0 1147 2204 12 3 85 +Thu Aug 28 18:17:59 2003 0 0 0 40904 4784 22304 404660 0 0 +148 0 2112 3420 2 3 95 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:00 2003 1 1 3 40904 4760 22324 404664 0 0 +20 456 2374 3277 2 1 97 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:01 2003 0 2 10 40904 4436 22000 401456 0 0 +144 540 510 457 11 6 83 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:02 2003 1 1 2 40904 8336 22032 401512 0 0 +68 676 1830 2540 4 3 93 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:04 2003 1 0 1 40904 8160 22052 401664 0 0 +140 220 2308 3253 2 3 95 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:05 2003 0 0 1 40904 7748 22064 402064 0 0 +288 0 1941 2856 1 3 96 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:06 2003 0 0 3 40904 6704 22064 403100 0 0 +496 992 2326 3510 0 5 95 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:07 2003 1 0 0 40904 6324 22088 402716 0 0 +260 188 1984 2927 11 4 85 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:08 2003 0 0 0 40904 6920 22088 402828 0 0 +72 0 419 1473 17 5 78 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:09 2003 0 0 0 40904 6784 22088 402964 0 0 +128 0 235 476 2 1 97 +Thu Aug 28 18:18:10 2003 0 0 1 40904 6404 22088 402980 0 0 + 0 0 343 855 14 2 84 + +As this shows, some disk I/O and an increased amount of interrupts and +context switches is taking place at this time, and this also happens at +the same time as all the other long queries I examined. However, vmstat +also shows this pattern at a lot of other times, where the queries +aren't affected by it. + +> Are you using pooled connections? If yes you could shorten life of a connection +> and force making a new connection every 10-15 minutes say. That would avoid IO +> avelanche at the end of the hour types. + +I'm not quite sure, what you mean by "pooled connections". Each game +server has one connection to the PostgreSQL server, which is opened, +when the server is first started, and then never closed (until the game +server terminates, but there's days between this happens). + +Regards, +Anders K. Pedersen + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:17:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 231FED1B8CD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:17:35 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 62788-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:17:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from hosting.commandprompt.com (209.commandprompt.com + [207.173.200.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C91BD1B8AB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:17:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from commandprompt.com (dsl093-077-251.sea2.dsl.speakeasy.net + [66.93.77.251]) (authenticated) + by hosting.commandprompt.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7SIHLl30728 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:17:22 -0700 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:17:16 -0700 +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed +Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) +From: Al Hulaton +To: +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +In-Reply-To: <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> +Message-Id: +X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/429 +X-Sequence-Number: 3245 + +> http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php +> -- +> Bill Moran +> Potential Technologies +> http://www.potentialtech.com + +Adding my voice to the many, thanks for sharing your results Bill. Very +instructive. + +-- +Best, +Al Hulaton | Sr. Account Engineer | Command Prompt, Inc. +503.222.2783 | ahulaton@commandprompt.com +Home of Mammoth PostgreSQL and 'Practical PostgreSQL' +Managed PostgreSQL, Linux services and consulting +Read and Search O'Reilly's 'Practical PostgreSQL' at +http://www.commandprompt.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:24:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD96D1B8A4 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:23:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69730-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:23:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from harrier.cohaesio.com (harrier.cohaesio.com [212.97.128.50]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9758D1B8C5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:23:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by harrier.cohaesio.com (Postfix, from userid 88) + id 5224286; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:23:47 +0200 (CEST) +X-Original-To: news2mail@news.cohaesio.com +From: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:23:46 +0200 +Organization: Cohaesio A/S +Lines: 36 +Message-ID: +References: + <28672.1062027548@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Trace: harrier.cohaesio.com 1062095026 10096 212.97.128.160 (28 Aug 2003 + 18:23:46 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@news.cohaesio.com +X-Accept-Language: da, en-us, en +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/432 +X-Sequence-Number: 3248 + +Tom Lane wrote: +> "Anders K. Pedersen" writes: +> +>>Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing purposes, +>>and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have syslog'ing of +>>queries and duration turned on), but several times per hour the duration +>>for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times larger), while the +>>surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. +> +> +> One thing that comes to mind is that the slow query could be occurring +> at the same time as a checkpoint, or some other cycle-chewing background +> operation. It's not clear why a checkpoint would slow things down that +> much, though. Anyway I'd suggest looking for such activities; once we +> know if that's the issue or not, we can make some progress. + +One of my colleagues suggested looking for checkpoints as well; I +searched the log, but only the following messages turned up: + +Aug 11 15:21:04 gs1 postgres[5447]: [2] LOG: checkpoint record is at +0/80193C +Aug 23 13:59:51 gs1 postgres[16451]: [2] LOG: checkpoint record is at +0/201EB74 +Aug 25 02:48:17 gs1 postgres[1059]: [2] LOG: checkpoint record is at +0/2B787D0 + +Currently there are only relatively few changes to the database - one +INSERT everytime one of our game admins executes an administrative +command (like ban or kick), and this happens at most 10 times per hour. +As I understand checkpoints, this should mean, that they aren't +happening very often, and when they do, should be able to finish almost +immediately. + +Regards, +Anders K. Pedersen + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:29:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5311D1B8BD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:29:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65798-10 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:28:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3586AD1B8C6 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:28:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 9DEA910259; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:20:51 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.5] (unknown [10.0.2.5]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id C183C10248; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:20:49 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Rod Taylor +To: Matt Clark +Cc: Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: +References: +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-GMeJR8ov1t2fNdR4EpNd" +Message-Id: <1062095341.79027.201.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:29:02 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/433 +X-Sequence-Number: 3249 + +--=-GMeJR8ov1t2fNdR4EpNd +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 12:37, Matt Clark wrote: +> > Ok.. I would be surprised if you needed much more actual CPU power. I +> > suspect they're mostly idle waiting on data -- especially with a Quad +> > Xeon (shared memory bus is it not?). +>=20 +> In reality the CPUs get pegged: about 65% PG and 35% system. But I agree= + that memory throughput and latency is an issue. + +system in this case is dealing with disk activity or process switches? + +Usually the 65% includes the CPU waiting on a request for data from main +memory. Since you will be moving a lot of data through the CPU, the L1 / +L2 cache doesn't help too much (even large cache), but low latency high=20 +bandwidth memory will make a significant difference. CPUs not having to +wait on other CPUs doing a memory fetch will make an even larger +difference (dedicated memory bus per CPU). + +Good memory is the big ticket item. Sun CPUs are not better than Intel +CPUs, for simple DB interaction. It's the additional memory bandwidth +that makes them shine. Incidentally, Suns are quite slow with PG for +calculation intensive work on a small dataset. + +> > Write performance won't matter very much. 3000 inserts/second isn't high +> > -- some additional battery backed write cache may be useful but not +> > overly important with enough ram to hold the complete dataset. I suspect +> > those are slow due to things like foreign keys -- which of course are +> > selects. +>=20 +> 3000 inserts/sec isn't high when they're inside one transaction, but if e= +ach is inside its own transaction then that's 3000 +> commits/second. + +Still not anything to concern yourself with. WAL on battery backed +write cache (with a good controller) will more than suffice -- boils +down to the same as if fsync was disabled. You might want to try putting +it onto it's own controller, but I don't think you will see much of a +change. 20k WAL operations / sec would be something to worry about. + +> > case, additional ram will keep the system from hitting the disk for +> > writes as well. +>=20 +> How does that work? + +Simple. Your OS will buffer writes in memory until they are required to +hit disk (fsync or similar). Modify the appropriate sysctl to inform +the OS it can use more than 10% (10% is the FreeBSD default I believe) +of the memory for writes. Buffering 4GB of work in memory (WAL logs +will ensure this is crash safe) will nearly eliminate I/O. + +When the OS is no longer busy, it will filter the writes from ram back +to disk. Visibly, there is no change to the user aside from a speed +increase. + +> > You may want to play around with checkpoints. Prevention of a checkpoint +> > during this hour will help prevent peaks. Be warned though, WAL will +> > grow very large, and recovery time should a crash occur could be +> > painful. +>=20 +> Good point. I'll have a think about that. + +This is more important with a larger buffer. A checkpoint informs the OS +to dump the buffer to disk so it can guarantee it hit hardware (thus +allowing PG to remove / recycle WAL files). + + +I do think your best bet is to segregate the DB. Read / write, by user +location, first 4 digits of the credit card, anything will make a much +better system. + +Keep a master with all of the data that can take the full week to +process it. + +--=-GMeJR8ov1t2fNdR4EpNd +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/Tknt6DETLow6vwwRAq86AJ9qr+CMP0QEHWPHdFOXMc20G5UJoQCfXRtT +KoJwIRkCpMbvEAPw0BRfFw4= +=fH2r +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-GMeJR8ov1t2fNdR4EpNd-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:33:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB483D1B8BB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:33:23 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69524-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:33:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897BAD1B8AB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:33:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id EC9D41024D; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:25:14 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.5] (unknown [10.0.2.5]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 55FA610248; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:25:12 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +From: Rod Taylor +To: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Cc: Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: +References: + <1062033258.71328.2.camel@jester> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-MA5LX7Kj9shonc9JZCr3" +Message-Id: <1062095603.79027.205.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:33:24 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/434 +X-Sequence-Number: 3250 + +--=-MA5LX7Kj9shonc9JZCr3 +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +> With regards to other jobs on the server, there is a MySQL server on it= +=20 +> as well, which from time to time has some multi-second queries generated= +=20 +> from a webserver also on this host, but the MySQL is running with nice=20 +> 10 (PostgreSQL isn't nice'd). + +Do those MySQL queries hit disk hard? + +I've never seen PostgreSQL have hicups like you describe when running on +a machine by itself. I have experienced similar issues when another +process (cron job in my case) caused brief swapping to occur. + +--=-MA5LX7Kj9shonc9JZCr3 +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/Tkrz6DETLow6vwwRAtulAJ0YVZ1cDQCgs/woxrjoXHTDvCAYzACfUDm/ +BVFt6GQZE39FcBGmXe8eX7Q= +=RiGI +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-MA5LX7Kj9shonc9JZCr3-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:49:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBC8D1B8CF + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:49:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 72025-04 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:49:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C19D1B8A9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:49:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 03A79D593; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id ED95E5C0B; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Michael Guerin +Cc: +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +In-Reply-To: <3F4E3F0B.9000802@rentec.com> +Message-ID: <20030828114452.B11166-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/435 +X-Sequence-Number: 3251 + +On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: + +> Stephan Szabo wrote: +> +> >On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +> > +> > +> > +> >>Stephan Szabo wrote: +> >> +> >> +> >> +> >>>On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +> >>> +> >>> +> >>> +> >>> +> >>> +> >>>>I'm running into some performance problems trying to execute simple +> >>>>queries. +> >>>> +> >>>>postgresql version 7.3.3 +> >>>>.conf params changed from defaults. +> >>>>shared_buffers = 64000 +> >>>>sort_mem = 64000 +> >>>>fsync = false +> >>>>effective_cache_size = 400000 +> >>>> +> >>>>ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); +> >>>> +> >>>>There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +> >>>>postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. +> >>>> +> >>>> +> >>>> +> >>>> +> >>>IN(subquery) is known to run poorly in 7.3.x and earlier. 7.4 is +> >>>generally much better (for reasonably sized subqueries) but in earlier +> >>>versions you'll probably want to convert into an EXISTS or join form. +> >>> +> >>> +> >>> +> >>> +> >>> +> >>> +> >>Something else seems to be going on, even switching to an exists clause +> >>gives much better but poor performance. +> >>count(*) where exists clause: Postgresql 19s, SQL Server <1s +> >>count(*) where not exists: 23.3s SQL Server 1.5s +> >> +> >> +> > +> >What does explain analyze show for the two queries? +> > +> > +> > +> > +> explain analyze select count(*) from tbltimeseries where exists(select +> uniqid from tblobjectname where timeseriesid = uniqid); +> Aggregate (cost=5681552.18..5681552.18 rows=1 width=0) (actual +> time=22756.64..22756.64 rows=1 loops=1) +> -> Seq Scan on tbltimeseries (cost=0.00..5680051.34 rows=600336 +> width=0) (actual time=22.06..21686.78 rows=1200113 loops=1) +> Filter: (NOT (subplan)) +> SubPlan +> -> Index Scan using idx_objectname on tblobjectname +> (cost=0.00..4.70 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=0 +> loops=1200673) +> Index Cond: ($0 = uniqid) +> Total runtime: 22756.83 msec +> (7 rows) + +Hmm... I'd thought that it had options for a better plan than that. + +What do things like: + +explain analyze select count(distinct timeseriesid) from tbltimeseries, + tblobjectname where timeseriesid=uniquid; + +and + +explain analyze select count(distinct timeseriesid) from + tbltimeseries left outer join tblobjectname on (timeseriesid=uniqid) + where uniqid is null; + +give you? + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:51:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4971D1B8A4 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:51:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71943-05 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:51:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAE9D1B8BB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:51:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 7E6AAD64A; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:51:08 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 7410D5C0B; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:51:08 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:51:08 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: teknokrat +Cc: +Subject: Re: performance of foreign key constraints +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: <20030828114947.B11166-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/436 +X-Sequence-Number: 3252 + + +On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, teknokrat wrote: + +> Stephan Szabo wrote: +> +> > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, teknokrat wrote: +> > +> > +> >>I have a table that has about 20 foreign key constraints on it. I think +> >>this is a bit excessive and am considering removing them ( they are all +> >>related to the same table and I don't think there is much chance of any +> >>integrity violations ). Would this improve performance or not? +> > +> > +> > It depends on your frequency of inserts/updates to the table with the +> > constraint and the frequency of update/delete to the table(s) being +> > refered to. My guess is probably. You may wish to leave some of the +> > constraints (decide which are the most important), but 20 does seem a bit +> > excessive in general. +> > +> +> The references are all to the same table i.e. they are employee ids, so +> leaving some and not others would make no sense. The table has no +> deletes, small amount of inserts and moderate amount of updates. However +> there are many selects and its their performance I am most concerned with. + +The foreign keys should only really affect insert/update/delete +performance. If you're using 7.3.4 (I think) then updates to the fk table +that don't change any of the keys should be relatively cheap. I'd be much +more worried if you had any changes the the referenced employee table that +might change the key because that could get relatively expensive. + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:57:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F8C5D1B8AD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:57:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71080-07 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:57:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from harrier.cohaesio.com (harrier.cohaesio.com [212.97.128.50]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97663D1B8CD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:57:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by harrier.cohaesio.com (Postfix, from userid 88) + id 6607186; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:57:03 +0200 (CEST) +X-Original-To: news2mail@news.cohaesio.com +From: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:57:02 +0200 +Organization: Cohaesio A/S +Lines: 27 +Message-ID: +References: + <1062033258.71328.2.camel@jester> + + <1062095603.79027.205.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Trace: harrier.cohaesio.com 1062097022 10377 212.97.128.160 (28 Aug 2003 + 18:57:02 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@news.cohaesio.com +X-Accept-Language: da, en-us, en +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/437 +X-Sequence-Number: 3253 + +Rod Taylor wrote: +>>With regards to other jobs on the server, there is a MySQL server on it +>>as well, which from time to time has some multi-second queries generated +>>from a webserver also on this host, but the MySQL is running with nice +>>10 (PostgreSQL isn't nice'd). +> +> Do those MySQL queries hit disk hard? + +I guess they may be able to do so - the MySQL database is 450 MB, and +the server has 512 MB RAM, and some of the queries pretty summarizes +everything in the database. + +However, I just cross-referenced the access logs from the webserver with +the duration logs, and although some of the spikes did happen, while +there would have been some MySQL activity (I can't tell for sure, if it +was simple queries or the long ones), other spikes happened without any +website activity in the surrounding minutes. + +> I've never seen PostgreSQL have hicups like you describe when running on +> a machine by itself. I have experienced similar issues when another +> process (cron job in my case) caused brief swapping to occur. + +OK. I may have to try to put the database on a separate server. + +Regards, +Anders K. Pedersen + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 15:58:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4241D1B8B3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:58:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 73253-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:58:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258E8D1B8A9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:58:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 247D91024D; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:50:08 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [10.0.2.5] (unknown [10.0.2.5]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id D1FBD10248; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:50:05 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: performance of foreign key constraints +From: Rod Taylor +To: teknokrat@yahoo.com +Cc: Postgresql Performance +In-Reply-To: +References: + <20030828102646.Q9762-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> + +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-X0iTVE9TY5IHRIQvfunB" +Message-Id: <1062097097.79027.214.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:58:18 -0400 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/438 +X-Sequence-Number: 3254 + +--=-X0iTVE9TY5IHRIQvfunB +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +> The references are all to the same table i.e. they are employee ids, so= +=20 +> leaving some and not others would make no sense. The table has no=20 +> deletes, small amount of inserts and moderate amount of updates. However= +=20 +> there are many selects and its their performance I am most concerned with. + +Foreign keys have no impact on selects. + +Although this does sound like a rather strange design to me (20+ columns +wide and they're all employee ids?) + +--=-X0iTVE9TY5IHRIQvfunB +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/TlDI6DETLow6vwwRAqoQAJ0QqXBGDyDrWVSOzkNLjgyUNcOdewCfUngw +WovGaADRmUrXn7CfgHnD6eY= +=l6L4 +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-X0iTVE9TY5IHRIQvfunB-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 16:16:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7CED1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:16:44 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80132-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:16:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta7.adelphia.net (mta7.adelphia.net [68.168.78.193]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6487D1B8BB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:16:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta7.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030828191613.UVC18798.mta7.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:16:13 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4E54FB.3020408@potentialtech.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:16:11 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Sean Chittenden +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> + + <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/439 +X-Sequence-Number: 3255 + +I need to step in and do 2 things: + +First, apologize for posting inaccurate test results. + +Second, verify that Sean is absolutely correct. FreeBSD 4.8 was accessing +the drives in PIO mode, which is significantly lousier than DMA, which +RedHat was able to use. As a result, the tests are unreasonably skewed +in favor of Linux. + +The only thing that the currently posted results prove is that Linux is +better at dealing with crappy hardware than BSD (which I feel we already +knew). + +I did some rescrounging, and found some newer hardware stuffed in a +corner that I had forgotten was even around. I am currently re-running +the tests and will post new results as soon as there are enough to +be interesting to talk about. + +In an attempt to avoid the same mistake, I did a timed test with dd(1) +to a raw partition on both Linux and FreeBSD to ensure that both systems +are able to access the hardware at more or less the same speed. The +results of this will be included. + +I'm also gathering considerably more information about the state of +the system during the tests, which should answer a number of questions +I've been getting. + +To the many people who asked questions like "why not try filesystem x +on distribution y" and similar questions, the answer in most cases is +time. I've pared the tests down some so they run faster, and I'm hoping +to be able to run more tests on more combinations of configurations as +a result. Also, I never intended for anyone to assume that I was _done_ +testing, just that I had enough results for folks to talk about. + +I'll post again when I have enough results to be interesting, until then, +I apologize again for the inaccurate results. + +Sean Chittenden wrote: +>>What it still leaves quite open is just what happens when the OS has +>>more than one disk drive or CPU to play with. It's not clear what +>>happens in such cases, whether FreeBSD would catch up, or be "left +>>further in the dust." The traditional "propaganda" has been that +>>there are all sorts of reasons to expect PostgreSQL on FreeBSD to +>>run a bit faster than on Linux; it is a bit unexpected for the +>>opposite to seem true. +> +> Let me nip this in the butt before people run away with ideas that +> aren't correct. When the tests were performed in FreeBSD 5.1 and +> Linux, the hard drives were running UDMA. When running 4.8, for some +> reason his drives settled in on PIO mode: +> +> ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +> ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +> ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +> ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) falling back to PIO mode +> +> The benchmarks were hardly conclusive as UDMA runs vastly faster than +> PIO. Until we hear back as to whether cables were jarred loose +> between the tests or hearing if something else changed, I'd hardly +> consider these conclusive tests given PIO/UDMA is apples to oranges in +> terms of speed and I fully expect that FreeBSD 4.8 will perform at +> least faster than 5.1 (5.x is still being unwound from Giant), but +> should out perform Linux as well if industry experience iss any +> indicator. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 16:22:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3E3D1B8E3 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:22:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 73388-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:22:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5857D1B8AE + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:22:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SJMMek050430 + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:22:22 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7SJGvcp038757 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:16:57 GMT +From: teknokrat +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: performance of foreign key constraints +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:16:59 +0100 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 16 +Message-ID: +References: + <20030828102646.Q9762-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> + <1062097097.79027.214.camel@jester> +Reply-To: teknokrat@yahoo.com +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0+) Gecko/20020518 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ko +In-Reply-To: <1062097097.79027.214.camel@jester> +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/440 +X-Sequence-Number: 3256 + +Rod Taylor wrote: +>>The references are all to the same table i.e. they are employee ids, so +>>leaving some and not others would make no sense. The table has no +>>deletes, small amount of inserts and moderate amount of updates. However +>>there are many selects and its their performance I am most concerned with. +> +> +> Foreign keys have no impact on selects. +> +> Although this does sound like a rather strange design to me (20+ columns +> wide and they're all employee ids?) + +There are more than 20 fieldss. Its a report that can get updated by +different employees and we wish to keep a record of which employee +completed which section. Couldn't think of any other way to do it. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 16:31:36 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6446D1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:31:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 81034-02 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:31:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.ext.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0325AD1B52C + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:31:23 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id A175120F01; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:31:23 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:31:23 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: Bill Moran +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Message-ID: <20030828193123.GI83317@perrin.nxad.com> +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> + + <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> + <3F4E54FB.3020408@potentialtech.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH" +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4E54FB.3020408@potentialtech.com> +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/441 +X-Sequence-Number: 3257 + +--ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline + +> I need to step in and do 2 things: + +Thanks for posting that. Let me know if you have any questions while +doing your testing. I've found that using 16K blocks on FreeBSD +results in about an 8% speedup in writes to the database, fwiw. + +I'm likely going to make this the default for PostgreSQL on FreeBSD +starting with 7.4 (just posted something to -hackers about this)f. If +you'd like to do this in your testing, just apply the following patch. + +Right now PostgreSQL defaults to 8K blocks, but FreeBSD uses 16K +blocks which means that currently, reading two blocks of data in PG is +two read calls to the OS, one reads 16K of data off disk and returns +the 1st page, the 2nd call pulls the 2nd block from the FS cache. In +making things 16K, it avoids the need for the 2nd system call which is +where the performance difference is coming from, afaikt. -sc + +-- +Sean Chittenden + +--ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=patch + +Index: src/include/pg_config_manual.h +=================================================================== +RCS file: /home/ncvs/pgsql/pgsql-server/src/include/pg_config_manual.h,v +retrieving revision 1.5 +diff -u -r1.5 pg_config_manual.h +--- src/include/pg_config_manual.h 4 Aug 2003 00:43:29 -0000 1.5 ++++ src/include/pg_config_manual.h 27 Aug 2003 17:40:12 -0000 +@@ -23,7 +23,7 @@ + * + * Changing BLCKSZ requires an initdb. + */ +-#define BLCKSZ 8192 ++#define BLCKSZ 16384 + + /* + * RELSEG_SIZE is the maximum number of blocks allowed in one disk + +--ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 19:03:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB02FD1B8E5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:18:58 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 05279-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:18:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ram.rentec.com (unknown [192.5.35.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11764D1D0A5 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:07:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from rentec.com (IDENT:618@murre.rentec.com [192.5.35.148]) + by ram.rentec.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h7SK7kw5019553; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:07:47 -0400 (EDT) +Message-ID: <3F4E6112.2060807@rentec.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:07:46 -0400 +From: Michael Guerin +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030703 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Stephan Szabo +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Simple queries take forever to run +References: <20030828114452.B11166-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030828114452.B11166-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/447 +X-Sequence-Number: 3263 + +Stephan Szabo wrote: + +>On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +> +> +> +>>Stephan Szabo wrote: +>> +>> +>> +>>>On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>>>Stephan Szabo wrote: +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> +>>>>>On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Michael Guerin wrote: +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>>>I'm running into some performance problems trying to execute simple +>>>>>>queries. +>>>>>> +>>>>>>postgresql version 7.3.3 +>>>>>>.conf params changed from defaults. +>>>>>>shared_buffers = 64000 +>>>>>>sort_mem = 64000 +>>>>>>fsync = false +>>>>>>effective_cache_size = 400000 +>>>>>> +>>>>>>ex. query: select * from x where id in (select id from y); +>>>>>> +>>>>>>There's an index on each table for id. SQL Server takes <1s to return, +>>>>>>postgresql doesn't return at all, neither does explain analyze. +>>>>>> +>>>>>> +>>>>>> +>>>>>> +>>>>>> +>>>>>> +>>>>>IN(subquery) is known to run poorly in 7.3.x and earlier. 7.4 is +>>>>>generally much better (for reasonably sized subqueries) but in earlier +>>>>>versions you'll probably want to convert into an EXISTS or join form. +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>> +>>>>Something else seems to be going on, even switching to an exists clause +>>>>gives much better but poor performance. +>>>>count(*) where exists clause: Postgresql 19s, SQL Server <1s +>>>>count(*) where not exists: 23.3s SQL Server 1.5s +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> +>>>> +>>>What does explain analyze show for the two queries? +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>> +>>explain analyze select count(*) from tbltimeseries where exists(select +>>uniqid from tblobjectname where timeseriesid = uniqid); +>>Aggregate (cost=5681552.18..5681552.18 rows=1 width=0) (actual +>>time=22756.64..22756.64 rows=1 loops=1) +>> -> Seq Scan on tbltimeseries (cost=0.00..5680051.34 rows=600336 +>>width=0) (actual time=22.06..21686.78 rows=1200113 loops=1) +>> Filter: (NOT (subplan)) +>> SubPlan +>> -> Index Scan using idx_objectname on tblobjectname +>>(cost=0.00..4.70 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=0 +>>loops=1200673) +>> Index Cond: ($0 = uniqid) +>> Total runtime: 22756.83 msec +>>(7 rows) +>> +>> +> +>Hmm... I'd thought that it had options for a better plan than that. +> +>What do things like: +> +>explain analyze select count(distinct timeseriesid) from tbltimeseries, +> tblobjectname where timeseriesid=uniquid; +> +>and +> +>explain analyze select count(distinct timeseriesid) from +> tbltimeseries left outer join tblobjectname on (timeseriesid=uniqid) +> where uniqid is null; +> +>give you? +> +> +> +> +much better performance: + +explain analyze select count(distinct timeseriesid) from tbltimeseries, + tblobjectname where timeseriesid=uniquid; + + Aggregate (cost=7384.03..7384.03 rows=1 width=8) (actual time=668.15..668.15 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..7380.83 rows=1282 width=8) (actual time=333.31..666.13 rows=561 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on tblobjectname (cost=0.00..33.82 rows=1282 width=4) (actual time=0.05..4.98 rows=1282 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using xx on tbltimeseries (cost=0.00..5.72 rows=1 width=4) (actual time=0.51..0.51 rows=0 loops=1282) + Index Cond: (tbltimeseries.timeseriesid = "outer".uniqid) + Total runtime: 669.61 msec +(6 rows) + +explain analyze select count(distinct timeseriesid) from + tbltimeseries left outer join tblobjectname on (timeseriesid=uniqid) + where uniqid is null; + + Aggregate (cost=59144.19..59144.19 rows=1 width=8) (actual time=12699.47..12699.47 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Hash Join (cost=37.02..56142.51 rows=1200673 width=8) (actual time=7.41..6376.12 rows=1200113 loops=1) + Hash Cond: ("outer".timeseriesid = "inner".uniqid) + Filter: ("inner".uniqid IS NULL) + -> Seq Scan on tbltimeseries (cost=0.00..44082.73 rows=1200673 width=4) (actual time=0.01..3561.61 rows=1200673 loops=1) + -> Hash (cost=33.82..33.82 rows=1282 width=4) (actual time=4.84..4.84 rows=0 loops=1) + -> Seq Scan on tblobjectname (cost=0.00..33.82 rows=1282 width=4) (actual time=0.04..2.84 rows=1282 loops=1) + Total runtime: 12699.76 msec +(8 rows) + + + + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 18:18:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DEED1B8CF + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:18:25 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 05286-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:18:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com (lorax.kciLink.com [206.112.95.1]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B4D7D1D1B8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:20:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by lorax.kciLink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9FAF3E7B + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:20:36 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (lorax.kciLink.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) + with SMTP id 10424-09 for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:20:26 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by lorax.kciLink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337253E5B + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:20:26 -0400 (EDT) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by lorax.kciLink.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h7SKKOlS015145 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:20:24 -0400 (EDT) +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Path: not-for-mail +From: Vivek Khera +Newsgroups: ml.postgres.performance +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:20:24 -0400 +Organization: Khera Communications, Inc., Rockville, MD +Lines: 20 +Message-ID: +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> + + <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> + <3F4E54FB.3020408@potentialtech.com> + <20030828193123.GI83317@perrin.nxad.com> +NNTP-Posting-Host: yertle.kcilink.com +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Trace: lorax.kciLink.com 1062102024 29973 216.194.193.105 (28 Aug 2003 + 20:20:24 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: daemon@kciLink.com +NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:20:24 +0000 (UTC) +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, + berkeley-unix) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:Phhmg/93nDJbk+ygkeqOjhEeZQ8= +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at kciLink.com +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/443 +X-Sequence-Number: 3259 + +>>>>> "SC" == Sean Chittenden writes: + +>> I need to step in and do 2 things: +SC> Thanks for posting that. Let me know if you have any questions while +SC> doing your testing. I've found that using 16K blocks on FreeBSD +SC> results in about an 8% speedup in writes to the database, fwiw. + +Where/how does one set this? In postgresql.conf or on the file system +or during compilation of postgres? I'm on FreeBSD 4.8 still. + +I've got a box right now on which I'm comparing the speed merits of +hardware RAID10, RAID5, and RAID50 using a filesystem benchmark +utility (bonnie++). If I have time I'm gonna try different striping +block sizes. Right now I'm using 32k byte stripe size. + +-- +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= +Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc. +Internet: khera@kciLink.com Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497 +AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/ + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 18:27:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A88BD1B9AE + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:20:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06965-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:20:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com (lorax.kciLink.com [206.112.95.1]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B9FD1D297 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:28:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by lorax.kciLink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAAB83E5B + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:28:06 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (lorax.kciLink.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) + with SMTP id 27094-01 for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:27:56 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from lorax.kciLink.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by lorax.kciLink.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 765F53E21 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:27:56 -0400 (EDT) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by lorax.kciLink.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8/Submit) id h7SKRu1t034084 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:27:56 -0400 (EDT) +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Path: not-for-mail +From: Vivek Khera +Newsgroups: ml.postgres.performance +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:27:55 -0400 +Organization: Khera Communications, Inc., Rockville, MD +Lines: 20 +Message-ID: +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> + + <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> + <3F4E54FB.3020408@potentialtech.com> + <20030828193123.GI83317@perrin.nxad.com> +NNTP-Posting-Host: yertle.kcilink.com +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-Trace: lorax.kciLink.com 1062102476 32928 216.194.193.105 (28 Aug 2003 + 20:27:56 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: daemon@kciLink.com +NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:27:56 +0000 (UTC) +User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, + berkeley-unix) +Cancel-Lock: sha1:cQRS2pnAkDZvWuxPtHxEqt3Lr/g= +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at kciLink.com +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/444 +X-Sequence-Number: 3260 + +>>>>> "SC" == Sean Chittenden writes: + +>> I need to step in and do 2 things: +SC> Thanks for posting that. Let me know if you have any questions while +SC> doing your testing. I've found that using 16K blocks on FreeBSD +SC> results in about an 8% speedup in writes to the database, fwiw. + +ok.. ignore my prior request about how to set that... i missed you had +included a patch. + +Any recommendations on newfs parameters for an overly large file +system used solely for Postgres? Over 100Gb (with raid 10) or over +200Gb (with raid 5)? + + +-- +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= +Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc. +Internet: khera@kciLink.com Rockville, MD +1-240-453-8497 +AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/ + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 18:55:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB39D1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:19:55 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 05282-10 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:19:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A9AD1D2DD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:35:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SKYkp5002691; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:34:46 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:33:41 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Sean Chittenden +Cc: Christopher Browne , +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +In-Reply-To: <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner-ihs-com: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck-ihs-com: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/446 +X-Sequence-Number: 3262 + +On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Sean Chittenden wrote: + +> > What it still leaves quite open is just what happens when the OS has +> > more than one disk drive or CPU to play with. It's not clear what +> > happens in such cases, whether FreeBSD would catch up, or be "left +> > further in the dust." The traditional "propaganda" has been that +> > there are all sorts of reasons to expect PostgreSQL on FreeBSD to +> > run a bit faster than on Linux; it is a bit unexpected for the +> > opposite to seem true. +> +> Let me nip this in the butt before people run away with ideas that +> aren't correct. When the tests were performed in FreeBSD 5.1 and +> Linux, the hard drives were running UDMA. When running 4.8, for some +> reason his drives settled in on PIO mode: +> +> ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +> ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +> ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) retrying +> ad0s1a: UDMA ICRC error writing fsbn 1458368 of 729184-729215 (ad0s1 bn 1458368; cn 241 tn 12 sn 44) falling back to PIO mode +> +> The benchmarks were hardly conclusive as UDMA runs vastly faster than +> PIO. Until we hear back as to whether cables were jarred loose +> between the tests or hearing if something else changed, I'd hardly +> consider these conclusive tests given PIO/UDMA is apples to oranges in +> terms of speed and I fully expect that FreeBSD 4.8 will perform at +> least faster than 5.1 (5.x is still being unwound from Giant), but +> should out perform Linux as well if industry experience iss any +> indicator. + +Plus, in most "real" servers you're gonna be running SCSI, so it might be +nice to see a test with a good SCSI controller (Symbios 875 is a nice +choice) and a couple hard drives, one each for WAL and data. This would +more closely resemble actual usage and there are likely to be fewer issues +with things like UDMA versus PIO on SCSI. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 19:10:10 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B56BD1BA59 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:18:48 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 05292-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:18:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB7CD1D30E + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:41:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SKeGp5003112; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:40:17 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:39:11 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Cc: +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +In-Reply-To: +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner-ihs-com: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck-ihs-com: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/448 +X-Sequence-Number: 3264 + + +Just to add to the clutch here, also check your bdflush settings (if +you're on linux) or equivalent (if you're not.) + +Many times the swapping algo in linux can be quite bursty if you have it +set to move too many pages at a time during cleanup / flush. + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 18:15:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CCCD1D7FA + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:15:03 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 05300-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:14:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp013.mail.yahoo.com (smtp013.mail.yahoo.com + [216.136.173.57]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C888D1D923 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:01:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pcp01341166pcs.wilog301.pa.comcast.net (HELO + europa.janwieck.net) (janwieck@68.80.245.191 with login) + by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2003 21:01:37 -0000 +Received: from Yahoo.com (ismtp.afilias.com [216.217.55.254]) (authenticated) + by europa.janwieck.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h7SL1Kx05756; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:01:20 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4E6D52.90206@Yahoo.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:00:02 -0400 +From: Jan Wieck +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: PgSQL General ML +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +References: <200308270325.h7R3PfI24921@candle.pha.pa.us> + <6358.1061955430@sss.pgh.pa.us> <1061971951.18060.357.camel@haggis> +In-Reply-To: <1061971951.18060.357.camel@haggis> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1640 +X-Sequence-Number: 48055 + + + +Ron Johnson wrote: + +> Notes: +> a) this is, of course, not *sufficient* for multi-master +> b) yes, you need a fast, low latency network for the DLM chatter. + +"Fast" is an understatement. The DLM you're talking about would (in our +case) need to use Spread's AGREED_MESS or SAFE_MESS service type, +meaning guarantee of total order. A transaction that needs any type of +lock sends that request into the DLM group and then waits. The incoming +stream of lock messages determines success or failure. With the overhead +of these service types I don't think one single communication group for +all database backends in the whole cluster guaranteeing total order will +be that efficient. + +> +> This is a tried and true method of synchronization. DEC Rdb/VMS +> has been using it for 19 years as the underpinnings of it's cluster +> technology, and Oracle licensed it from them (well, really Compaq) +> for it's 9i RAC. + +Are you sure they're using it that way? + + +Jan + +-- +#======================================================================# +# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # +# Let's break this rule - forgive me. # +#================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com # + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 18:17:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B439D1D4D6 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:17:10 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06212-01 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:16:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from yertle.kcilink.com (yertle.kcilink.com [216.194.193.105]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36249D1B8AC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:16:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by yertle.kcilink.com (Postfix, from userid 100) + id 22C1921792; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:16:41 -0400 (EDT) +From: Vivek Khera +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: opinion on RAID choice +X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.4 (patch 12) "Portable Code" XEmacs Lucid +Message-Id: <20030828211641.22C1921792@yertle.kcilink.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:16:41 -0400 (EDT) +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/442 +X-Sequence-Number: 3258 + +I just ran a handful of tests on a 14-disk array on a SCSI hardware +RAID card. + + From some quickie benchmarks using the bonnie++ benchmark, it appears +that the RAID5 across all 14 disks is a bit faster than RAID50 and +noticeably faster than RAID10... + +Sample numbers for a 10Gb file (speed in Kbytes/second) + + RAID5 RAID50 RAID10 +sequential write: 39728 37568 23533 +read/write file: 13831 13289 11400 +sequential read: 52184 51529 54222 + + +Hardware is a Dell 2650 dual Xeon, 4GB Ram, PERC3/DC RAID card with +14 external U320 SCSI 15kRPM drives. Software is FreeBSD 4.8 with the +default newfs settings. + +The RAID drives were configured with 32k stripe size. From informal +tests it doesn't seem to make much difference in the bonnie++ +benchmark to go with 64k stripe on the RAID10 (didn't test it with +RAID5 or RAID50). They say use larger stripe size for sequential +access, and lower for random access. + +My concern is speed. Any RAID config on this system has more disk +space than I will need for a LOOONG time. + +My Postgres load is a heavy mix of select/update/insert. ie, it is a +very actively updated and read database. + +The conventional wisdom has been to use RAID10, but with 14 disks, I'm +kinda leaning toward RAID50 or perhaps just RAID5. + +Has anyone else done similar tests of different RAID levels? What +were your conclusions? + +Raw output from bonnie++ available upon request. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 18:28:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66081D1B8BB + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:28:40 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06882-07 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:28:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BB5D1B9FE + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:28:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7SLRJp5006811; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:27:19 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:26:14 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Vivek Khera +Cc: +Subject: Re: opinion on RAID choice +In-Reply-To: <20030828211641.22C1921792@yertle.kcilink.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner-ihs-com: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck-ihs-com: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/445 +X-Sequence-Number: 3261 + +On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Vivek Khera wrote: + +> I just ran a handful of tests on a 14-disk array on a SCSI hardware +> RAID card. + +SNIP + +> Has anyone else done similar tests of different RAID levels? What +> were your conclusions? + +Yes I have. I had a 6 disk array plus 2 disks inside my machine (this was +on a Sparc 20 with 4 narrow SCSI channels and the disks spread across them +evenly, using RH6.2 and linux sw raid. + +My results were about the same as yours, RAID1+0 tended to beat RAID5 at +reads, while RAID5 tended to win at writes. + +There's an old wive's tale that RAID5 has to touch every single disk in a +stripe when writing, which simply isn't true. I believe that many old +controllers (decades back, 286 land kinda stuff) might have done it this +way, and so people kept thinking this was how RAID5 worked, and avoided +it. + +My experience has been that once you get past 6 disks, RAID5 is faster +than RAID1+0. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 19:22:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B296D1B550 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:49:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 08220-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:49:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D9ED1B8A9 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:49:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 8BC8D21058; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:49:40 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:49:40 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: Vivek Khera +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Message-ID: <20030828214940.GQ83759@perrin.nxad.com> +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> + + <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> + <3F4E54FB.3020408@potentialtech.com> + <20030828193123.GI83317@perrin.nxad.com> + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/449 +X-Sequence-Number: 3265 + +> >> I need to step in and do 2 things: +> SC> Thanks for posting that. Let me know if you have any questions while +> SC> doing your testing. I've found that using 16K blocks on FreeBSD +> SC> results in about an 8% speedup in writes to the database, fwiw. +> +> ok.. ignore my prior request about how to set that... i missed you +> had included a patch. +> +> Any recommendations on newfs parameters for an overly large file +> system used solely for Postgres? Over 100Gb (with raid 10) or over +> 200Gb (with raid 5)? + +Nope, you'll have to test and see. If you find something that works, +however, let me know. -sc + +-- +Sean Chittenden + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 19:19:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A43D1B8BC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:04:48 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 09218-07 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:04:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0202D1B8BD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:04:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030828220410.KGII11854.lakemtao02.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:04:10 -0400 +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL General ML +In-Reply-To: <3F4E6D52.90206@Yahoo.com> +References: <200308270325.h7R3PfI24921@candle.pha.pa.us> + <6358.1061955430@sss.pgh.pa.us> <1061971951.18060.357.camel@haggis> + <3F4E6D52.90206@Yahoo.com> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062108258.29020.69.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:04:19 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1653 +X-Sequence-Number: 48068 + +On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 16:00, Jan Wieck wrote: +> Ron Johnson wrote: +> +> > Notes: +> > a) this is, of course, not *sufficient* for multi-master +> > b) yes, you need a fast, low latency network for the DLM chatter. +> +> "Fast" is an understatement. The DLM you're talking about would (in our +> case) need to use Spread's AGREED_MESS or SAFE_MESS service type, +> meaning guarantee of total order. A transaction that needs any type of +> lock sends that request into the DLM group and then waits. The incoming +> stream of lock messages determines success or failure. With the overhead +> of these service types I don't think one single communication group for +> all database backends in the whole cluster guaranteeing total order will +> be that efficient. + +I guess it's the differing protocols involved. DEC made clustering +(including Rdb/VMS) work over an 80Mbps protocol, back in The Day, +and HPaq says that it works fine now over fast ethernet. + +> > This is a tried and true method of synchronization. DEC Rdb/VMS +> > has been using it for 19 years as the underpinnings of it's cluster +> > technology, and Oracle licensed it from them (well, really Compaq) +> > for it's 9i RAC. +> +> Are you sure they're using it that way? + +Not as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, +but, yes, I am highly confident that O modified DLM for use in +9i RAC. Note that O purchased Rdb/VMS from DEC back in 1994, along +with the Engineers, so they have long knowledge of how it works +in VMS. One of the reasons they bought Rdb was to merge the tech- +nology into RDBMS. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"they love our milk and honey, but preach about another way of living" +Merle Haggard, "The Fighting Side Of Me" + + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 19:47:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6C6D1B8CF + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:47:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17898-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:47:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from snoopy.oit.edu (snoopy.OIT.EDU [140.211.135.12]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF56D1B8E7 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:47:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from fireserve.net (purvine-141-62.oit.edu [140.211.141.62]) + by snoopy.oit.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9/OIT-4.0) with ESMTP id h7SMlCHf018390; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:47:12 -0700 +Message-ID: <3F4E87A8.9010005@fireserve.net> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:52:24 -0700 +From: Dennis Gearon +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, ru, es-mx +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: PgSQL General ML +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +References: <200308270325.h7R3PfI24921@candle.pha.pa.us> + <6358.1061955430@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <1061971951.18060.357.camel@haggis> <3F4E6D52.90206@Yahoo.com> + <1062108258.29020.69.camel@haggis> +In-Reply-To: <1062108258.29020.69.camel@haggis> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1657 +X-Sequence-Number: 48072 + +Are these clusters physically together using dedicate LAN lines .... or +are they synchronizing over the Interwait? + +Ron Johnson wrote: + +>On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 16:00, Jan Wieck wrote: +> +> +>>Ron Johnson wrote: +>> +>> +>> +>>>Notes: +>>>a) this is, of course, not *sufficient* for multi-master +>>>b) yes, you need a fast, low latency network for the DLM chatter. +>>> +>>> +>>"Fast" is an understatement. The DLM you're talking about would (in our +>>case) need to use Spread's AGREED_MESS or SAFE_MESS service type, +>>meaning guarantee of total order. A transaction that needs any type of +>>lock sends that request into the DLM group and then waits. The incoming +>>stream of lock messages determines success or failure. With the overhead +>>of these service types I don't think one single communication group for +>>all database backends in the whole cluster guaranteeing total order will +>>be that efficient. +>> +>> +> +>I guess it's the differing protocols involved. DEC made clustering +>(including Rdb/VMS) work over an 80Mbps protocol, back in The Day, +>and HPaq says that it works fine now over fast ethernet. +> +> +> +>>>This is a tried and true method of synchronization. DEC Rdb/VMS +>>>has been using it for 19 years as the underpinnings of it's cluster +>>>technology, and Oracle licensed it from them (well, really Compaq) +>>>for it's 9i RAC. +>>> +>>> +>>Are you sure they're using it that way? +>> +>> +> +>Not as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, +>but, yes, I am highly confident that O modified DLM for use in +>9i RAC. Note that O purchased Rdb/VMS from DEC back in 1994, along +>with the Engineers, so they have long knowledge of how it works +>in VMS. One of the reasons they bought Rdb was to merge the tech- +>nology into RDBMS. +> +> +> + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 21:11:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3791BD1B8CC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:11:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26754-05 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:10:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail7.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.207]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D82D1B8BC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:10:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 13033 invoked by uid 64014); 29 Aug 2003 00:10:34 -0000 +Received: from kgeis@speakeasy.org by mail7.speakeasy.net with + AmikaGuardian-Server-2.0.0 (Processed in 0.191544 secs); + 29 Aug 2003 00:10:34 -0000 +X-AmikaGuardian-Id: mail7.speakeasy.net106211583423613026 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Non-Junk Content : -2.0 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Non-Junk Clues : -2.0 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Picky Clues : 0.1 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Spam Structure : 0.1 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Junk Mail : -1.9 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Pastime : 0.05 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Joke : 0.05 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Obvious Clues : 0.1 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Spam : 0.1 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Spam Indicators : 0.1 +X-AmikaGuardian-Action: Do Nothing() +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[67.113.18.226]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail7.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP + for ; 29 Aug 2003 00:10:33 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:10:31 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: bad estimates / non-scanning aggregates +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/450 +X-Sequence-Number: 3266 + +I'm surprised at the effort pgsql requires to run one of my queries. I +don't know how to tune this query. + + Column | Type | Modifiers +------------+--------------+----------- + the_id | integer | not null + the_date | date | not null + num1 | numeric(9,4) | + num2 | numeric(9,4) | + num3 | numeric(9,4) | + num4 | numeric(9,4) | + int1 | integer | +Indexes: + "the_table_pkey" primary key, btree (the_id, the_date) + +--------------------------------------- + +The query I want to run is + +select stock_id, min(price_date) from day_ends group by stock_id; + +--------------------------------------- + +Here's the plan that I get. + +GroupAggregate (cost=3711244.30..3838308.31 rows=6732 width=8) + -> Sort (cost=3711244.30..3753593.36 rows=16939624 width=8) + Sort Key: stock_id + -> Seq Scan on day_ends (cost=0.00..361892.24 rows=16939624 + width=8) + +If I set enable_seqscan = false, the plan changes to + + GroupAggregate (cost=0.00..67716299.91 rows=6732 width=8) + -> Index Scan using day_ends_pkey on day_ends + (cost=0.00..67631584.96 rows=16939624 width=8) + +--------------------------------------- + +Now... the first plan uses up tons of temporary space for sorting. The +second one just runs and runs and runs. I've tried setting the +statistics to 1000 with little effect. + +So the query can get everything it needs from the index, and a full scan +of the index should be faster (the index file is less than half the size +of the data file.) So why does the optimizer estimate so high? + +Also, to get the MIN for a given group, not all values of the index need +to be seen. Must pgsql do a full scan because it treats all aggregates +in the same way? Are MIN and MAX used often enough to justify special +treatment, and could that be cleanly implemented? Perhaps the aggregate +function can request the data in a certain order, be told that it is +being passed data in a certain order, and return before seeing the +entire set of data. + +Food for thought... + + +Thanks, + +Ken Geis + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 21:50:29 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4489FD1B8AE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:50:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 28252-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:50:00 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from harrier.cohaesio.com (harrier.cohaesio.com [212.97.128.50]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49349D1B52C + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:49:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by harrier.cohaesio.com (Postfix, from userid 88) + id 2D3D086; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:49:45 +0200 (CEST) +X-Original-To: news2mail@news.cohaesio.com +From: "Anders K. Pedersen" +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:49:44 +0200 +Organization: Cohaesio A/S +Lines: 14 +Message-ID: +References: + +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Trace: harrier.cohaesio.com 1062118184 13692 212.97.128.160 (29 Aug 2003 + 00:49:44 GMT) +X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@news.cohaesio.com +X-Accept-Language: da, en-us, en +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/451 +X-Sequence-Number: 3267 + +scott.marlowe wrote: +> Just to add to the clutch here, also check your bdflush settings (if +> you're on linux) or equivalent (if you're not.) +> +> Many times the swapping algo in linux can be quite bursty if you have it +> set to move too many pages at a time during cleanup / flush. + +According to vmstat it doesn't swap near the spikes, so I don't think +this is the problem. I posted a vmstat sample in another reply, where +you can see an example of what happens. + +Regards, +Anders K. Pedersen + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 22:13:28 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BC65D1B8BB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:08:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 35910-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:08:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B456D1B8A8 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:08:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta11.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030829010806.OKTK19795.mta11.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:08:06 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4EA775.9020501@potentialtech.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:08:05 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: PgSQL Performance ML , + freebsd-database@freebsd.org, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, + freebsd-performance@freebsd.org +Subject: Taking another shot at the PostgreSQL/filesystem benchmarks +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/452 +X-Sequence-Number: 3268 + +Alright. + +To anyone who didn't get the news the first time: +The first set of benchmarks were terribly skewed because FreeBSD +didn't properly work with the hardware I was using. Thanks to +those who pointed the problem out to me. + +I have scrounged new hardware, and insured that FreeBSD is working +properly with it. And I have rerun many of the tests (not all). + +Thanks again to all who responded with helpful tips and pointers. + +I'm hoping to work on these tests a little bit at a time, adding +additional tests and their results, so feel free to stop back and +check the page every so often. I don't intend to announce future +updates on these lists unless there is something that seems +considerably important found. + +If you've made a suggestion on additional tests to run, please +rest assured that I got your email and have added the test to my +list of things to try. I simply got more emails than I could +respond to. I apologize to everyone who didn't get a personal +response. + +http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php + +Again, feedback is welcome, but if it's of any magnitude similar +to what I just got, I doubt I'll be able to respond to everyone. +Please don't be offended. I'm rather surprised at how popular +this information was. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 22:20:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41FC1D1B99C + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:19:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38378-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:19:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta5.adelphia.net (mta5.adelphia.net [68.168.78.187]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0451FD1BA45 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:19:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta5.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030829011907.RMTX7719.mta5.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:19:07 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4EAA09.4070602@potentialtech.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:19:05 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +References: <3F4DF252.3395.332BF0F@localhost> +In-Reply-To: <3F4DF252.3395.332BF0F@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/453 +X-Sequence-Number: 3269 + +Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> On 26 Aug 2003 at 21:47, Bill Moran wrote: +> +> +>>Hey all. +>> +>>I said I was going to do it, and I finally did it. +>> +>>As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +>>more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +>>should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +>>learn a few things from them. +>> +>>Intelligent feedback is welcome. +>> +>>http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php +> +> +> Can we have these benchmarks and relevant information stored in a central +> archive at techdocs(Say)? +> +> That would be better than searching mail archives.. + +I agree. + +There doesn't seem to be a place on techdocs for benchmarks at the time. +Is there another part of the site that would be good for these to go? +I'll keep them posted on my site until a better location is found. + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 22:37:44 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A363FD1B8B3 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:37:37 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 45899-04 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:37:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D7D6D1B8E0 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:37:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7T1axLt034462; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:36:59 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <06e801c36dce$81a153b0$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Ron Johnson" , + "PgSQL Performance ML" +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <1062062608.25226.182.camel@haggis> +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:40:18 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="Windows-1252" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/454 +X-Sequence-Number: 3270 + +> > As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +> > more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +> > should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +> > learn a few things from them. +> > +> > Intelligent feedback is welcome. +> > +> > http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php +> +> I notice that the Linux FSs weren't tested with noatime. Any +> reason? + +My friend, (a FreeBSD committer), was wondering what the results are if you +turn off softupdates (to match Linux default installation) and use noatime. +He also wonders how bug the default IO is? + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 22:57:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D3BD1B8B3 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:57:03 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 45640-10 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:56:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8788DD1B8CC + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:56:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7T1uULt034817; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:56:30 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <082e01c36dd1$3bf1f150$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Sean Chittenden" , + "Bill Moran" +Cc: +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> + + <20030828161233.GB83759@perrin.nxad.com> + <3F4E54FB.3020408@potentialtech.com> + <20030828193123.GI83317@perrin.nxad.com> +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:59:50 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/455 +X-Sequence-Number: 3271 + +> I'm likely going to make this the default for PostgreSQL on FreeBSD +> starting with 7.4 (just posted something to -hackers about this)f. If +> you'd like to do this in your testing, just apply the following patch. +> +> Right now PostgreSQL defaults to 8K blocks, but FreeBSD uses 16K +> blocks which means that currently, reading two blocks of data in PG is +> two read calls to the OS, one reads 16K of data off disk and returns +> the 1st page, the 2nd call pulls the 2nd block from the FS cache. In +> making things 16K, it avoids the need for the 2nd system call which is +> where the performance difference is coming from, afaikt. -sc + +Are you _sure_ this won't cause any atomicity problems? Can FreeBSD write +16k as an atomic unit? + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 23:00:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6FAD1B8BD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:00:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 46829-06 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:00:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from yertle.kcilink.com (yertle.kcilink.com [216.194.193.105]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F76D1B550 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:00:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by yertle.kcilink.com (Postfix, from userid 100) + id A43382178A; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:00:21 -0400 (EDT) +From: Vivek Khera +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <16206.46005.102954.7768@yertle.int.kciLink.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:00:21 -0400 +To: +Subject: Re: opinion on RAID choice +In-Reply-To: +References: <20030828211641.22C1921792@yertle.kcilink.com> + +X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.4 (patch 12) "Portable Code" XEmacs Lucid +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/456 +X-Sequence-Number: 3272 + +>>>>> "sm" == scott marlowe writes: + +sm> My experience has been that once you get past 6 disks, RAID5 is faster +sm> than RAID1+0. + +Any opinion on stripe size for the RAID? + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 23:15:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF4CD1B8B3 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:15:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 62430-03 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:15:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta3.adelphia.net (mta3.adelphia.net [68.168.78.181]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72AC3D1B97C + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:15:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta3.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030829021522.YIO6558.mta3.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:15:22 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4EB738.1060203@potentialtech.com> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:15:20 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Christopher Kings-Lynne +Cc: Ron Johnson , + PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance +References: <3F4C0DC4.8070105@potentialtech.com> + <1062062608.25226.182.camel@haggis> + <06e801c36dce$81a153b0$2800a8c0@mars> +In-Reply-To: <06e801c36dce$81a153b0$2800a8c0@mars> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/457 +X-Sequence-Number: 3273 + +Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +>>>As with all performance tests/benchmarks, there are probably dozens or +>>>more reasons why these results aren't as accurate or wonderful as they +>>>should be. Take them for what they are and hopefully everyone can +>>>learn a few things from them. +>>> +>>>Intelligent feedback is welcome. +>>> +>>>http://www.potentialtech.com/wmoran/postgresql.php +>> +>>I notice that the Linux FSs weren't tested with noatime. Any +>>reason? +> +> My friend, (a FreeBSD committer), was wondering what the results are if you +> turn off softupdates (to match Linux default installation) and use noatime. + +Keep an eye on the page. The test results will be posted shortly after I +finish them. + +Keep in mind, I'm more interested in figuring out what can be done to make +Postgres _faster_, so tests along that line are going to have a higher +priority than ones that specifically compare "apples to apples" or anything +like that. + +> He also wonders how bug the default IO is? + +Huh? + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 23:51:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14D1D1B960 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:51:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 69829-08 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:50:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail15.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.215]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B60D1B8C6 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:50:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 25478 invoked by uid 64014); 29 Aug 2003 02:50:42 -0000 +Received: from kgeis@speakeasy.org by mail15.speakeasy.net with + AmikaGuardian-Server-2.0.0 (Processed in 0.214208 secs); + 29 Aug 2003 02:50:42 -0000 +X-AmikaGuardian-Id: mail15.speakeasy.net106212544223625473 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Urgency : 0.01 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Vectored : 1.7 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Spam Language : 0.01 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Forwarded Mail : 1.7 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Override : 1.7 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Junk Mail : 0.01 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Exception : 1.7 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Spam : 0.01 +X-AmikaGuardian-Action: Do Nothing() +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[67.113.18.226]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail15.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 29 Aug 2003 02:50:42 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:50:38 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates / non-scanning aggregates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/459 +X-Sequence-Number: 3275 + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 17:10:31 -0700, +> Ken Geis wrote: +> +>>The query I want to run is +>> +>>select stock_id, min(price_date) from day_ends group by stock_id; +> +> The fast way to do this is: +> +> select distinct on (stock_id) stock_id, price_date +> order by stock_id, price_date; + +Not according to the optimizer! Plus, this is not guaranteed to return +the correct results. + + Unique (cost=3711244.30..3795942.42 rows=6366 width=8) + -> Sort (cost=3711244.30..3753593.36 rows=16939624 width=8) + Sort Key: stock_id, price_date + -> Seq Scan on day_ends (cost=0.00..361892.24 rows=16939624 +width=8) + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 23:45:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95314D1B550 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:45:18 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 68817-09 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:45:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 22A9AD1B8E6 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:45:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 5007 invoked by uid 500); 29 Aug 2003 02:51:09 -0000 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:51:09 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: Ken Geis +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates / non-scanning aggregates +Message-ID: <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: Ken Geis , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/458 +X-Sequence-Number: 3274 + +On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 17:10:31 -0700, + Ken Geis wrote: +> The query I want to run is +> +> select stock_id, min(price_date) from day_ends group by stock_id; + +The fast way to do this is: + +select distinct on (stock_id) stock_id, price_date + order by stock_id, price_date; + +> Also, to get the MIN for a given group, not all values of the index need +> to be seen. Must pgsql do a full scan because it treats all aggregates +> in the same way? Are MIN and MAX used often enough to justify special +> treatment, and could that be cleanly implemented? Perhaps the aggregate +> function can request the data in a certain order, be told that it is +> being passed data in a certain order, and return before seeing the +> entire set of data. + +Yes, max and min are not treated special so they don't benefit from +indexes. This has been discussed repeatedly in the archives. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 00:01:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C9CD1B9F4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:00:55 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71196-06 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:00:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail15.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.215]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CE3D1B9B2 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:00:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 9218 invoked by uid 64014); 29 Aug 2003 03:00:36 -0000 +Received: from kgeis@speakeasy.org by mail15.speakeasy.net with + AmikaGuardian-Server-2.0.0 (Processed in 0.290994 secs); + 29 Aug 2003 03:00:36 -0000 +X-AmikaGuardian-Id: mail15.speakeasy.net10621260362369157 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Urgency : 0.03 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Vectored : 1.7 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Spam Language : 0.03 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Forwarded Mail : 1.7 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Override : 1.7 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Junk Mail : 0.03 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Exception : 1.7 +X-AmikaGuardian-Category: AN:Spam : 0.03 +X-AmikaGuardian-Action: Do Nothing() +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[67.113.18.226]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail15.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 29 Aug 2003 03:00:35 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:00:32 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates / non-scanning aggregates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/461 +X-Sequence-Number: 3277 + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +>>Not according to the optimizer! Plus, this is not guaranteed to return +>>the correct results. +> +> For it to be fast you need an index on (stock_id, price_date) so that +> you can use an index scan. + +I already said that such an index existed. In fact, it is the primary +key of the table. And yes, I *am* analyzed! + +> The answers are guarenteed to be correct. See: +> http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/sql-select.html#SQL-DISTINCT + +That's good to know. Thanks! + + +Ken + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Thu Aug 28 23:56:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE1CD1B550 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:56:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71477-04 + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:55:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 18C2BD1B8AD + for ; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:55:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 5140 invoked by uid 500); 29 Aug 2003 03:01:56 -0000 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:01:56 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: Ken Geis +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates / non-scanning aggregates +Message-ID: <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: Ken Geis , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/460 +X-Sequence-Number: 3276 + +On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 19:50:38 -0700, + Ken Geis wrote: +> Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> >On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 17:10:31 -0700, +> > Ken Geis wrote: +> > +> >>The query I want to run is +> >> +> >>select stock_id, min(price_date) from day_ends group by stock_id; +> > +> >The fast way to do this is: +> > +> >select distinct on (stock_id) stock_id, price_date +> > order by stock_id, price_date; +> +> Not according to the optimizer! Plus, this is not guaranteed to return +> the correct results. + +For it to be fast you need an index on (stock_id, price_date) so that +you can use an index scan. + +The answers are guarenteed to be correct. See: +http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/sql-select.html#SQL-DISTINCT + +From pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 00:20:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-general-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7860D1B897 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:20:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71299-10 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:20:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C49D1B8C6 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:20:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030829032006.JJKO10977.lakemtao03.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:20:06 -0400 +Subject: Re: Replication Ideas +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL General ML +In-Reply-To: <3F4E87A8.9010005@fireserve.net> +References: <200308270325.h7R3PfI24921@candle.pha.pa.us> + <6358.1061955430@sss.pgh.pa.us> <1061971951.18060.357.camel@haggis> + <3F4E6D52.90206@Yahoo.com> <1062108258.29020.69.camel@haggis> + <3F4E87A8.9010005@fireserve.net> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062127209.30745.84.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:20:10 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/1679 +X-Sequence-Number: 48094 + +On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 17:52, Dennis Gearon wrote: +> Are these clusters physically together using dedicate LAN lines .... or +> are they synchronizing over the Interwait? + +There have been multiple methods over the years. In order: + +1. Cluster Interconnect (CI) : There's a big box, called the CI, + that in the early days was really a stripped PDP-11 running + an RTOS. Each VAX (and, later, Alpha) is connected to the CI + via a special adapters and cables. Disks are connected to an + "HSC" Storage Controllers which also plug into the CI. Basic- + ally, it's a big, intelligent switch. Disk sectors pass + along the wires from VAX and Alpha to disks and back. DLM + messages pass along the wires from node to node. With mul- + tiple CI adapters, and HSCs (they were dual-ported) you could + set up otal dual-redundancy. Up to 96 nodes can be cluster- + ed. It still works, but Memory Channel is preferred now. + +2. LAVC - Local Area VAX Cluster : In this scheme, disks were + directly attached to nodes, and data (disk and DLM) is trans- + ferred back and forth across the 10Mbps Ethernet. It could + travel over TCP/IP or DECnet. For obvious reasons, LAVC was + a lot cheaper and slower than CI. + +3. SCSI clusters : SCSI disks are wired to a dual-ported "HSZ" + Storage Controller. Then, SCSI cards on each of 2 nodes + could be wired into a port. The SCSI disks could also be + wired to a 2nd HSZ, and a 2nd SCSI card in each node plugged + into that HSZ, dual-redundancy is achieved. With modern + versions of VMS, the SCSI drivers can choose which SCSI + card it wanted to send data through, to increase performance. + DLM messages are passed via TCP/IP. Only 2 nodes can be + clustered. A related method uses fiber channel disks on + "HSG" Storage Controllers. + +4. Memory Channel : A higher speed interconnect. Don't know + much about it. 128 nodes can be clustered. + +Note that since DLM awareness is built deep into VMS and all the +RTLs, every program is cluster-aware, no matter what type of +cluster method is used. + + +> Ron Johnson wrote: +> +> >On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 16:00, Jan Wieck wrote: +> > +> > +> >>Ron Johnson wrote: +> >> +> >> +> >> +> >>>Notes: +> >>>a) this is, of course, not *sufficient* for multi-master +> >>>b) yes, you need a fast, low latency network for the DLM chatter. +> >>> +> >>> +> >>"Fast" is an understatement. The DLM you're talking about would (in our +> >>case) need to use Spread's AGREED_MESS or SAFE_MESS service type, +> >>meaning guarantee of total order. A transaction that needs any type of +> >>lock sends that request into the DLM group and then waits. The incoming +> >>stream of lock messages determines success or failure. With the overhead +> >>of these service types I don't think one single communication group for +> >>all database backends in the whole cluster guaranteeing total order will +> >>be that efficient. +> >> +> >> +> > +> >I guess it's the differing protocols involved. DEC made clustering +> >(including Rdb/VMS) work over an 80Mbps protocol, back in The Day, +> >and HPaq says that it works fine now over fast ethernet. +> > +> > +> > +> >>>This is a tried and true method of synchronization. DEC Rdb/VMS +> >>>has been using it for 19 years as the underpinnings of it's cluster +> >>>technology, and Oracle licensed it from them (well, really Compaq) +> >>>for it's 9i RAC. +> >>> +> >>> +> >>Are you sure they're using it that way? +> >> +> >> +> > +> >Not as sure as I am that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, +> >but, yes, I am highly confident that O modified DLM for use in +> >9i RAC. Note that O purchased Rdb/VMS from DEC back in 1994, along +> >with the Engineers, so they have long knowledge of how it works +> >in VMS. One of the reasons they bought Rdb was to merge the tech- +> >nology into RDBMS. +> > +> > +> > + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Oh, great altar of passive entertainment, bestow upon me thy +discordant images at such speed as to render linear thought impossible" +Calvin, regarding TV + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 00:32:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1EEED1B897 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:32:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 76611-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:32:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A9A76D1B8CC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:32:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 5636 invoked by uid 500); 29 Aug 2003 03:38:18 -0000 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:38:18 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: Ken Geis +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates / non-scanning aggregates +Message-ID: <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: Ken Geis , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/462 +X-Sequence-Number: 3278 + +On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 20:00:32 -0700, + Ken Geis wrote: +> Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> >>Not according to the optimizer! Plus, this is not guaranteed to return +> >>the correct results. +> > +> >For it to be fast you need an index on (stock_id, price_date) so that +> >you can use an index scan. +> +> I already said that such an index existed. In fact, it is the primary +> key of the table. And yes, I *am* analyzed! + +Your original example didn't actually match that of the table you are showing +examples from. In that example the second half of the primary key was the +date not the end of the day price. If this is the case for the real table, +then that is the reason the distinct on doesn't help. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 00:40:49 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2CFD1B8CC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:40:46 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 73647-08 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:40:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from al-aqsho.rspj.local (unknown [61.94.104.35]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EE6D1B8AE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:40:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from works220 (unknown [192.168.1.220]) + by al-aqsho.rspj.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687AF1B58D + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:39:41 +0000 (UTC) +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +From: Eko Pranoto +Reply-To: koprahome@telkom.net +Organization: WEPEKA IT +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: PostgreSQL HDD Grow capacity +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:44:40 +0700 +User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +Message-Id: <200308291044.40700.kopra@wepeka-it.com> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/463 +X-Sequence-Number: 3279 + +How To calcute PostgreSQL HDD grow capacity for every byte data, start from= +=20 +installation initialize. + +Regards, + +Eko Pranoto + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 00:46:37 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6017DD1B8AB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:46:34 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 77874-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:46:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail13.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.213]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06613D1B8EA + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:46:02 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 18314 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 03:46:00 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail13.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 29 Aug 2003 03:46:00 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:46:00 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/464 +X-Sequence-Number: 3280 + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 20:00:32 -0700, +> Ken Geis wrote: +> +>>Bruno Wolff III wrote: +>> +>>>>Not according to the optimizer! Plus, this is not guaranteed to return +>>>>the correct results. +>>> +>>>For it to be fast you need an index on (stock_id, price_date) so that +>>>you can use an index scan. +>> +>>I already said that such an index existed. In fact, it is the primary +>>key of the table. And yes, I *am* analyzed! +> +> +> Your original example didn't actually match that of the table you are showing +> examples from. In that example the second half of the primary key was the +> date not the end of the day price. If this is the case for the real table, +> then that is the reason the distinct on doesn't help. + +I had obfuscated the table in the example and forgot to do the same with +the query. Serves me right for thinking I care about that. + +A big problem is that the values I am working with are *only* the +primary key and the optimizer is choosing a table scan over an index +scan. That is why I titled the email "bad estimates." The table has +(stock_id, price_date) as the primary key, and a bunch of other columns. + What I *really* want to do efficiently is + +select stock_id, min(price_date), max(price_date) + from day_ends + group by stock_id; + +It is not the table or the query that is wrong. It is either the db +parameters or the optimizer itself. + + +Ken + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 00:59:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB4E2D1B8BB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:59:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 77860-06 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:59:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A31E3D1B8BC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:59:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 5814 invoked by uid 500); 29 Aug 2003 04:05:19 -0000 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:05:19 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: Ken Geis +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +Message-ID: <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: Ken Geis , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/465 +X-Sequence-Number: 3281 + +On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 20:46:00 -0700, + Ken Geis wrote: +> +> A big problem is that the values I am working with are *only* the +> primary key and the optimizer is choosing a table scan over an index +> scan. That is why I titled the email "bad estimates." The table has +> (stock_id, price_date) as the primary key, and a bunch of other columns. +> What I *really* want to do efficiently is +> +> select stock_id, min(price_date), max(price_date) +> from day_ends +> group by stock_id; +> +> It is not the table or the query that is wrong. It is either the db +> parameters or the optimizer itself. + +If you want both the max and the min, then things are going to be a bit +more work. You are either going to want to do two separate selects +or join two selects or use subselects. If there aren't enough prices +per stock, the sequential scan might be fastest since you only need to +go through the table once and don't have to hit the index blocks. + +It is still odd that you didn't get a big speed up for just the min though. +You example did have the stock id and the date as the primary key which +would make sense since the stock id and stock price on a day wouldn't +be guarenteed to be unique. Are you absolutely sure you have a combined +key on the stock id and the stock price? + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 01:09:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4771D1B8E3 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:09:41 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 79349-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:09:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail11.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.211]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5112ED1B8AE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:09:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 16324 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 04:09:00 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail11.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 29 Aug 2003 04:09:00 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:09:00 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +Reply-To: kgeis@alum.calberkeley.org +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/466 +X-Sequence-Number: 3282 + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 20:46:00 -0700, +> Ken Geis wrote: +>>It is not the table or the query that is wrong. It is either the db +>>parameters or the optimizer itself. +... +> +> It is still odd that you didn't get a big speed up for just the min though. +> You example did have the stock id and the date as the primary key which +> would make sense since the stock id and stock price on a day wouldn't +> be guarenteed to be unique. Are you absolutely sure you have a combined +> key on the stock id and the stock price? + +I am positive! I can send a log if you want, but I won't post it to the +list. + +The arity on the data is roughly 1500 price_dates per stock_id. + +I was able to get the query to return in a reasonable amount of time +(still ~3 minutes) by forcing a nested loop path using SQL functions +instead of min and max. + +I'm going to run comparisons on 7.3.3 and 7.4-beta2. I'll also look +into the optimizer source to try to figure out why it thinks scanning +this index is so expensive. + + +Ken + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 01:24:39 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C00DD1B8E5 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:24:36 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 77874-09 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:24:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail1.ihs.com (mail1.ihs.com [170.207.70.222]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AD50D1B8AE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:24:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from css120.ihs.com (css120.ihs.com [170.207.105.120]) + by mail1.ihs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7T4Ngp5002332; + Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:23:42 -0600 (MDT) +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:22:35 -0600 (MDT) +From: "scott.marlowe" +To: Vivek Khera +Cc: +Subject: Re: opinion on RAID choice +In-Reply-To: <16206.46005.102954.7768@yertle.int.kciLink.com> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-MailScanner-ihs-com: Found to be clean +X-MailScanner-SpamCheck-ihs-com: +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/468 +X-Sequence-Number: 3284 + +On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Vivek Khera wrote: + +> >>>>> "sm" == scott marlowe writes: +> +> sm> My experience has been that once you get past 6 disks, RAID5 is faster +> sm> than RAID1+0. +> +> Any opinion on stripe size for the RAID? + +That's more determined by what kind of data you're gonna be handling. If +you want to do lots of little financial transactions, then 32k or less is +good. If you're gonna store moderately large text fields and such, then +going above 32k or 64k is usually a good idea. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 01:19:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E139D1B8C6 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:19:07 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 76610-10 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:18:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FEEDD1B8AB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:18:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 5978 invoked by uid 500); 29 Aug 2003 04:24:53 -0000 +Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:24:53 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: kgeis@alum.calberkeley.org +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +Message-ID: <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: kgeis@alum.calberkeley.org, pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/467 +X-Sequence-Number: 3283 + +On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 21:09:00 -0700, + Ken Geis wrote: +> Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> +> I am positive! I can send a log if you want, but I won't post it to the +> list. + +Can you do a \d on the real table or is that too sensitive? + +It still doesn't make sense that you have a primary key that +is a stock and its price. What happens when the stock has the +same price on two different dates? And I doubt that you are looking +for the minimum and maximum dates for which you have price data. +So it is hard to believe that the index for your primary key is the +one you need for your query. + +> The arity on the data is roughly 1500 price_dates per stock_id. + +Two index scans (one for min values and another for max values) +should be better than one sequential scan under those conditions. + +I am calling it quits for tonight, but will check back tomorrow +to see how things turned out. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 03:50:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD38ED1B8B3 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:50:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 92533-09 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:50:16 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.cict.nl (vnd-7521.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl [62.234.149.33]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 230E1D1B897 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:50:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from APR ([192.168.150.182]) + by mail.cict.nl (Merak 6.0.5) with SMTP id DUC73886 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:50:12 +0200 +Message-ID: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> +From: "Alexander Priem" +To: +Subject: Indexing question +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:52:06 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012C_01C36E0A.D2C8A900" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40, + HTML_FONT_BIG, HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE, HTML_FONT_FACE_ODD +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Archive-Number: 200308/469 +X-Sequence-Number: 3285 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_012C_01C36E0A.D2C8A900 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Hi all, + +I have some tables (which can get pretty large) in which I want to record '= +current' data as well as 'historical' data. This table has fields 'deleted'= + and 'deleteddate' (among other fields, of course). The field 'deleted' is = +false be default. Every record that I want to delete gets the value true fo= +r 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' is set to the date of deletion. + +Since these tables are used a lot by queries that only use 'current' data, = +I have created a view with a where clause 'Where not deleted'. Also, I have= + indexed field 'deleted'. + +I did this this because I read somewhere that fields that can contain NULL = +values will NOT be indexed. + +Is this true? + +Or could I ditch the 'deleted' field and just set 'deleteddate' to NULL by = +default and to a DATE in the case of a deleted record? I could then index t= +he field 'deleteddate' and create a view with where clause 'Where deletedda= +te is null'. + +Would this give the same performance as my current solution (with an indexe= +d boolean field 'deleted') ? + +I cannot test this myself at the moment as I am still in a design phase and= + do not have a real server available yet... + +Thanks in advance, + +Alexander Priem +------=_NextPart_000_012C_01C36E0A.D2C8A900 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + + + + + +
Hi all,
+
 
+
I have some tables (which can get pretty l= +arge) in=20 +which I want to record 'current' data as well as 'historical' data. Th= +is=20 +table has fields 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' (among other fields, of course= +).=20 +The field 'deleted' is false be default. Every record that I want to delete= + gets=20 +the value true for 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' is set to the date of=20 +deletion.
+
 
+
Since these tables are used a lot by queri= +es that=20 +only use 'current' data, I have created a view with a where clause 'Where n= +ot=20 +deleted'. Also, I have indexed field 'deleted'.
+
 
+
I did this this because I read somewhere t= +hat=20 +fields that can contain NULL values will NOT be indexed.
+
 
+
Is this true?
+
 
+
Or could I ditch the 'deleted' field and j= +ust set=20 +'deleteddate' to NULL by default and to a DATE in the case of a deleted rec= +ord?=20 +I could then index the field 'deleteddate' and create a view with where cla= +use=20 +'Where deleteddate is null'.
+
 
+
Would this give the same performance as my= + current=20 +solution (with an indexed boolean field 'deleted') ?
+
 
+
I cannot test this myself at the moment as= + I am=20 +still in a design phase and do not have a real server available=20 +yet...
+
 
+
Thanks in advance,
+

Alexander Priem
+ +------=_NextPart_000_012C_01C36E0A.D2C8A900-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 04:01:52 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0172D1B8D2 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:01:43 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 97566-01 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:01:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail7.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.207]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C128D1B8AD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:01:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 14693 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 07:01:10 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail7.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP + for ; 29 Aug 2003 07:01:10 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4EFA35.90401@speakeasy.org> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:01:09 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/470 +X-Sequence-Number: 3286 + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> Can you do a \d on the real table or is that too sensitive? + +It was silly of me to think of this as particularly sensitive. + +stocks=> \d day_ends + Table "public.day_ends" + Column | Type | Modifiers +------------+--------------+----------- + stock_id | integer | not null + price_date | date | not null + open | numeric(9,4) | + high | numeric(9,4) | + low | numeric(9,4) | + close | numeric(9,4) | + volume | integer | +Indexes: day_ends_pkey primary key btree (stock_id, price_date) +Triggers: RI_ConstraintTrigger_16558399 + +> It still doesn't make sense that you have a primary key that +> is a stock and its price. What happens when the stock has the +> same price on two different dates? And I doubt that you are looking +> for the minimum and maximum dates for which you have price data. +> So it is hard to believe that the index for your primary key is the +> one you need for your query. + +I can see the naming being confusing. I used "price_date" because, of +course, "date" is not a legal name. "day_ends" is a horrible name for +the table; "daily_bars" would probably be better. I *am* looking for +the mininum and maximum dates for which I have price data. I'm running +this query to build a chart so I can see visually where the majority of +my data begins to use as the start of a window for analysis. + +When run on 7.3.3, forcing an index scan by setting +enable_seqscan=false, the query took 55 minutes to run. The index is +about 660M in size, and the table is 1G. As I mentioned before, with +table scans enabled, it bombs, running out of temporary space. + +Hey Bruno, thanks for your attention here. I'm not a newbie, but I've +never really had performance issues with pgsql before. And I've been +running this database for a couple of years now, but I haven't run these +queries against it. + + +Ken + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 04:04:27 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4939D1B8E6 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:04:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 96039-07 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:03:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from serwer.skawsoft.com.pl (serwer.skawsoft.com.pl [213.25.37.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BC6D1B8CC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:03:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from klaster.net (core-1.citynet.pl [80.48.135.69]) + by serwer.skawsoft.com.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 393772B3A4; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:03:28 +0200 (CEST) +Message-ID: <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:03:18 +0200 +From: Tomasz Myrta +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; pl-PL; + rv:1.5a) Gecko/20030718 +X-Accept-Language: pl, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Alexander Priem +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Indexing question +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> +In-Reply-To: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/472 +X-Sequence-Number: 3288 + +> Hi all, +> +> I have some tables (which can get pretty large) in which I want to +> record 'current' data as well as 'historical' data. This table has +> fields 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' (among other fields, of course). The +> field 'deleted' is false be default. Every record that I want to delete +> gets the value true for 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' is set to the date +> of deletion. +> +> Since these tables are used a lot by queries that only use 'current' +> data, I have created a view with a where clause 'Where not deleted'. +> Also, I have indexed field 'deleted'. + + +I think the best choice for your case is using conditional indexes. It +should be much better than indexing 'deleted' field. I don't know on +which exactly fields you have to create this index - you have to check +it by yourself - what do you have in "where" clause? + +Example: +create index some_index on your_table(id_field) where not deleted; + + +Regards, +Tomasz Myrta + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 04:22:48 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BBDED1B8C6 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:22:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 98536-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:22:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D98D1B8BB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:22:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7T7MTek027656 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:22:29 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7T754PK024600 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:05:04 GMT +From: William Yu +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:05:03 -0700 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 27 +Message-ID: +References: <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> + <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +In-Reply-To: <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/473 +X-Sequence-Number: 3289 + +Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +>> Be careful here, we've seen that with the P4 Xeon's that are +>>hyper-threaded and a system that has very high disk I/O causes the +>>system to be sluggish and slow. But after disabling the hyper-threading +>>itself, our system flew.. +> +> Anybody has opteron working? Hows' the performance? + +Yes. I'm using an 2x 1.8GHz Opteron system w/ 8GB of RAM. Right now, I'm +still using 32-bit Linux -- I'm letting others be the 64-bit guinea +pigs. :) I probably will get a cheapie 1x Opteron machine first and test +the 64-bit kernel/libraries thoroughly before rolling it out to production. + +As for performance, the scaling is magnificient -- even when just using +PAE instead of 64-bit addressing. At low transaction counts, it's only +~75% faster than the 2x Athlon 1800+ MP it replaced. But once the +transactions start coming in, the gap is as high as 5x. My w-a-g: since +each CPU has an integrated memory controller, you avoid memory bus +contention which is probably the major bottleneck as transaction load +increases. (I've seen Opteron several vs Xeon comparisons where +single-connection tests are par for both CPUs but heavy-load tests favor +the Opteron by a wide margin.) I suspect the 4X comparisons would tilt +even more towards AMD's favor. + +We should see a boost when we move to 64-bit Linux and hopefully another +one when NUMA for Linux is production-stable. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 04:03:12 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607B7D1B8B3 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:03:07 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 94917-07 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:02:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABCD6D1B8CC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:02:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7T72LLt040433; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:02:21 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <0b5e01c36dfb$fbaca380$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Alexander Priem" , + +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> +Subject: Re: Indexing question +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:05:52 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; + boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0B5B_01C36E3F.09C3FCA0" +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_30, + HTML_30_40, HTML_FONT_BIG, HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE, HTML_FONT_FACE_ODD, + REFERENCES +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/471 +X-Sequence-Number: 3287 + +This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_0B5B_01C36E3F.09C3FCA0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Remember to consider partial indexes: + +eg. CREATE INDEX ON table (col) WHERE deletedate IS NOT NULL + +Chris + ----- Original Message -----=20 + From: Alexander Priem=20 + To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org=20 + Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 2:52 PM + Subject: [PERFORM] Indexing question + + + Hi all, + + I have some tables (which can get pretty large) in which I want to record= + 'current' data as well as 'historical' data. This table has fields 'delete= +d' and 'deleteddate' (among other fields, of course). The field 'deleted' i= +s false be default. Every record that I want to delete gets the value true = +for 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' is set to the date of deletion. + + Since these tables are used a lot by queries that only use 'current' data= +, I have created a view with a where clause 'Where not deleted'. Also, I ha= +ve indexed field 'deleted'. + + I did this this because I read somewhere that fields that can contain NUL= +L values will NOT be indexed. + + Is this true? + + Or could I ditch the 'deleted' field and just set 'deleteddate' to NULL b= +y default and to a DATE in the case of a deleted record? I could then index= + the field 'deleteddate' and create a view with where clause 'Where deleted= +date is null'. + + Would this give the same performance as my current solution (with an inde= +xed boolean field 'deleted') ? + + I cannot test this myself at the moment as I am still in a design phase a= +nd do not have a real server available yet... + + Thanks in advance, + + Alexander Priem +------=_NextPart_000_0B5B_01C36E3F.09C3FCA0 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + + + + + + +
Remember to consider partial indexes:
+
 
+
eg. CREATE INDEX ON table (col) WHERE deletedate IS NOT= +=20 +NULL
+
 
+
Chris
+
+
----- Original Message -----
+ Fro= +m:=20 + Alexander Priem +
To: pgsql-performance@postgr= +esql.org=20 +
+
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 2:52= +=20 + PM
+
Subject: [PERFORM] Indexing=20 +question
+

+
Hi all,
+
 
+
I have some tables (which can get pretty= + large)=20 + in which I want to record 'current' data as well as 'historical' dat= +a.=20 + This table has fields 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' (among other fields, of= +=20 + course). The field 'deleted' is false be default. Every record that I wan= +t to=20 + delete gets the value true for 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' is set to the = +date=20 + of deletion.
+
 
+
Since these tables are used a lot by que= +ries that=20 + only use 'current' data, I have created a view with a where clause 'Where= + not=20 + deleted'. Also, I have indexed field 'deleted'.
+
 
+
I did this this because I read somewhere= + that=20 + fields that can contain NULL values will NOT be indexed.
+
 
+
Is this true?
+
 
+
Or could I ditch the 'deleted' field and= + just set=20 + 'deleteddate' to NULL by default and to a DATE in the case of a deleted= +=20 + record? I could then index the field 'deleteddate' and create a view with= +=20 + where clause 'Where deleteddate is null'.
+
 
+
Would this give the same performance as = +my=20 + current solution (with an indexed boolean field 'deleted') ?<= +/DIV> +
 
+
I cannot test this myself at the moment = +as I am=20 + still in a design phase and do not have a real server available=20 + yet...
+
 
+
Thanks in advance,
+

Alexander Priem
+ +------=_NextPart_000_0B5B_01C36E3F.09C3FCA0-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 04:27:13 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB378D1B8BB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:27:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 98856-02 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:26:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA57D1B8B9 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:26:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7T7QZLt040836; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:26:35 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <0b9a01c36dff$5ec5df60$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "William Yu" , + +References: <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> + <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:30:06 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 tests=REFERENCES +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/474 +X-Sequence-Number: 3290 + +> We should see a boost when we move to 64-bit Linux and hopefully another +> one when NUMA for Linux is production-stable. + +Assuming SCO doesn't make them remove it :P + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 04:47:52 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE363D1B8AB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:47:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 97105-09 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:47:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.cict.nl (vnd-7521.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl [62.234.149.33]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32D49D1B8A4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:47:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from APR ([192.168.150.182]) + by mail.cict.nl (Merak 6.0.5) with SMTP id DUC73886; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:47:35 +0200 +Message-ID: <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> +From: "Alexander Priem" +To: "Tomasz Myrta" +Cc: +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> +Subject: Re: Indexing question +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:49:28 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/475 +X-Sequence-Number: 3291 + +So if I understand correctly I could ditch the 'deleted' field entirely and +use just the 'deleteddate' field. This 'deleteddate' field would be NULL by +default. It would contain a date value if the record is considered +'deleted'. + +The index would be 'create index a on tablename(deleteddate) where +deleteddate is null'. + +I could then access 'current' records with a view like 'create view x_view +as select * from tablename where deleteddate is null'. + +Is that correct? This would be the best performing solution for this kind of +thing, I think (theoretically at least)? + +Kind regards, +Alexander Priem. + + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Tomasz Myrta" +To: "Alexander Priem" +Cc: +Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 9:03 AM +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Indexing question + + +> > Hi all, +> > +> > I have some tables (which can get pretty large) in which I want to +> > record 'current' data as well as 'historical' data. This table has +> > fields 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' (among other fields, of course). The +> > field 'deleted' is false be default. Every record that I want to delete +> > gets the value true for 'deleted' and 'deleteddate' is set to the date +> > of deletion. +> > +> > Since these tables are used a lot by queries that only use 'current' +> > data, I have created a view with a where clause 'Where not deleted'. +> > Also, I have indexed field 'deleted'. +> +> +> I think the best choice for your case is using conditional indexes. It +> should be much better than indexing 'deleted' field. I don't know on +> which exactly fields you have to create this index - you have to check +> it by yourself - what do you have in "where" clause? +> +> Example: +> create index some_index on your_table(id_field) where not deleted; +> +> +> Regards, +> Tomasz Myrta +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 04:57:56 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32503D1B8AC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:57:54 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01002-03 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:57:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail7.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.207]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C917D1B8BB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:57:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 16522 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 07:57:43 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail7.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP + for ; 29 Aug 2003 07:57:43 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:57:43 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/476 +X-Sequence-Number: 3292 + +Sorry, all, to wipe out the context, but it was getting a little long. + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> I am calling it quits for tonight, but will check back tomorrow +> to see how things turned out. + +I went through the code (7.4 beta2) that estimates the cost of an index +scan path. What I need to be sure of is that when running a query in +pgsql that uses only the columns that are in an index, the underlying +table need not be accessed. I know that Oracle does this. + +The cost_index function is assuming that after finding an entry in the +index it will be looking it up in the underlying table. That table is +not well correlated to the index, so it is assuming (in the worst case) +a random page lookup for each of 17 million records! In my case, if the +underlying table is indeed not touched, the estimated cost is 1000 times +the real cost. + +63388.624000 to scan the index +67406506.915595 to scan the index and load a random page for each entry + + +Ken + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 04:59:45 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CB1D1B8B1 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:59:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 00480-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:59:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from serwer.skawsoft.com.pl (serwer.skawsoft.com.pl [213.25.37.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB3BD1B9AB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:59:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from klaster.net (core-1.citynet.pl [80.48.135.69]) + by serwer.skawsoft.com.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 5D5AD2B3A4; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:58:59 +0200 (CEST) +Message-ID: <3F4F07CE.6090803@klaster.net> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:59:10 +0200 +From: Tomasz Myrta +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; pl-PL; + rv:1.5a) Gecko/20030718 +X-Accept-Language: pl, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Alexander Priem +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Indexing question +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> + <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> +In-Reply-To: <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/477 +X-Sequence-Number: 3293 + +> So if I understand correctly I could ditch the 'deleted' field entirely and +> use just the 'deleteddate' field. This 'deleteddate' field would be NULL by +> default. It would contain a date value if the record is considered +> 'deleted'. +> +> The index would be 'create index a on tablename(deleteddate) where +> deleteddate is null'. +> +> I could then access 'current' records with a view like 'create view x_view +> as select * from tablename where deleteddate is null'. +> +> Is that correct? This would be the best performing solution for this kind of +> thing, I think (theoretically at least)? +> +> Kind regards, +> Alexander Priem. + +Near, but not exactly. You don't need field deleted - it's true. + +Your example: +create index a on tablename(deleteddate) where deleteddate is null +we can translate to: +create index a on tablename(NULL) where deleteddate is null +which doesn't make too much sense. + +Check your queries. You probably have something like this: +select * from tablename where not deleted and xxx + +Create your index to match xxx clause - if xxx is "some_id=13", then +create your index as: +create index on tablename(some_id) where deleteddate is null; + +Regards, +Tomasz Myrta + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 05:10:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31BA7D1D94C + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:10:17 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 99592-10 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:10:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail15.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.215]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CBF0D1B9AE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:10:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 11115 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 08:10:06 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail15.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 29 Aug 2003 08:10:06 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4F0A5E.8030207@speakeasy.org> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:10:06 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> +In-Reply-To: <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/478 +X-Sequence-Number: 3294 + +Ken Geis wrote: +> I went through the code (7.4 beta2) that estimates the cost of an index +> scan path. What I need to be sure of is that when running a query in +> pgsql that uses only the columns that are in an index, the underlying +> table need not be accessed. I know that Oracle does this. + +Thinking about it some more, it's obvious to me that a pgsql index scan +must be accessing the underlying table even though all of the +information needed is in the index itself. A linear scan of a 660M file +should not take 55 minutes. I could confirm this with stats, but +someone out there probably already knows the answer here. + + +Ken + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 05:11:09 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE332D1DA60 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:10:56 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 98438-10 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:10:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615CFD1DA5F + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:10:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7T8AWLt041701; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:10:32 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <0be001c36e05$83034fb0$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Alexander Priem" , + "Tomasz Myrta" +Cc: +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> + <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> +Subject: Re: Indexing question +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:14:04 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 tagged_above=0.0 required=5.0 + tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM, REFERENCES +X-Spam-Level: +X-Archive-Number: 200308/479 +X-Sequence-Number: 3295 + + +> So if I understand correctly I could ditch the 'deleted' field entirely +and +> use just the 'deleteddate' field. This 'deleteddate' field would be NULL +by +> default. It would contain a date value if the record is considered +> 'deleted'. +> +> The index would be 'create index a on tablename(deleteddate) where +> deleteddate is null'. +> +> I could then access 'current' records with a view like 'create view x_view +> as select * from tablename where deleteddate is null'. +> +> Is that correct? This would be the best performing solution for this kind +of +> thing, I think (theoretically at least)? + +Yes, I think it would be best. Definitely better than your current +solution. + +Cheers, + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 05:11:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48833D1DA62 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:11:44 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 98856-08 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:11:35 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D47D1DA4F + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:11:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mars (work-40.internal [192.168.0.40]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id + h7T8BWLt041736; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:11:32 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Message-ID: <0bf301c36e05$a72f90b0$2800a8c0@mars> +From: "Christopher Kings-Lynne" +To: "Ken Geis" , + "Bruno Wolff III" +Cc: +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> + <3F4F0A5E.8030207@speakeasy.org> +Subject: Re: bad estimates +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:15:05 +0800 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/480 +X-Sequence-Number: 3296 + +> > I went through the code (7.4 beta2) that estimates the cost of an index +> > scan path. What I need to be sure of is that when running a query in +> > pgsql that uses only the columns that are in an index, the underlying +> > table need not be accessed. I know that Oracle does this. + +PostgreSQL absolutely does not do this. It is also not possible to do this +due to MVCC. + +Chris + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 05:17:59 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C4FBD1B948 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:17:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 00122-08 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:17:27 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail11.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.211]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84861D1B916 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:17:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 8190 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 08:17:25 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail11.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 29 Aug 2003 08:17:25 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4F0C15.6040802@speakeasy.org> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:17:25 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> <3F4EFA35.90401@speakeasy.org> +In-Reply-To: <3F4EFA35.90401@speakeasy.org> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/482 +X-Sequence-Number: 3298 + +Ken Geis wrote: +> When run on 7.3.3, forcing an index scan by setting +> enable_seqscan=false, the query took 55 minutes to run. The index is +> about 660M in size, and the table is 1G. As I mentioned before, with +> table scans enabled, it bombs, running out of temporary space. + +Man, I should wait a while before I send mails, because I keep having +more to say! + +Some good news here. Doing the same as above on 7.4beta2 took 29 +minutes. Now, the 7.3.3 was on reiser and 7.4 on ext2, so take that as +you will. 7.4's index selectivity estimate seems much better; 7.3.3's +anticipated rows was ten times the actual; 7.4's is one half of the actual. + + +Ken + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 05:16:41 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC91D1B9AE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:16:38 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 03468-02 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:16:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBCE1D1DA4C + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:16:25 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7T8LC0e011220 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:51:12 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7T8LChi011207 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:51:12 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:48:24 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4F59A8.20966.434E2AD@localhost> +In-reply-to: +References: <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/481 +X-Sequence-Number: 3297 + +On 29 Aug 2003 at 0:05, William Yu wrote: + +> Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> >> Be careful here, we've seen that with the P4 Xeon's that are +> >>hyper-threaded and a system that has very high disk I/O causes the +> >>system to be sluggish and slow. But after disabling the hyper-threading +> >>itself, our system flew.. +> > +> > Anybody has opteron working? Hows' the performance? +> +> Yes. I'm using an 2x 1.8GHz Opteron system w/ 8GB of RAM. Right now, I'm +> still using 32-bit Linux -- I'm letting others be the 64-bit guinea +> pigs. :) I probably will get a cheapie 1x Opteron machine first and test +> the 64-bit kernel/libraries thoroughly before rolling it out to production. + +Just a guess here but does a precompiled postgresql for x86 and a x86-64 +optimized one makes difference? + +Opteron is one place on earth you can watch difference between 32/64 bit on +same machine. Can be handy at times.. + +> +> As for performance, the scaling is magnificient -- even when just using +> PAE instead of 64-bit addressing. At low transaction counts, it's only +> ~75% faster than the 2x Athlon 1800+ MP it replaced. But once the +> transactions start coming in, the gap is as high as 5x. My w-a-g: since +> each CPU has an integrated memory controller, you avoid memory bus +> contention which is probably the major bottleneck as transaction load +> increases. (I've seen Opteron several vs Xeon comparisons where +> single-connection tests are par for both CPUs but heavy-load tests favor +> the Opteron by a wide margin.) I suspect the 4X comparisons would tilt +> even more towards AMD's favor. + +I am sure. But is 64 bit environment, Xeon is not the compitition. It's PA-RSC- +8700, ultraSparcs, Power series and if possible itanium. + +I would still expect AMD to compete comfortably given high clock speed. But +chipset need to be competent as well.. + +I still remember the product I work on, a single CPU PA-RISC 8700 with single +SCSI disc, edged out a quad CPU Xeon with SCSI RAID controller running windows +in terms of scalability while running oracle. + +I am not sure if it was windows v/s HP-UX issue but at the end HP machine was +lot better than windows machine. Windows machine shooted ahead for light load +and drooeed dead equally fast with rise in load.. + +> We should see a boost when we move to 64-bit Linux and hopefully another +> one when NUMA for Linux is production-stable. + +Getting a 2.6 running now is the answer to make it stable fast..:-) Of course +if you have spare hardware.. + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +briefcase, n: A trial where the jury gets together and forms a lynching party. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 05:28:52 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54270D1B574 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:28:49 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 03537-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:28:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AB3ED1B8E0 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:28:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7T8XNvM015171 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:03:23 +0530 +Received: from daithan (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in [192.168.7.161]) + (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7T8XMhi015158 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:03:22 +0530 +From: "Shridhar Daithankar" +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:00:34 +0530 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Subject: Re: Queries sometimes take 1000 times the normal time +Reply-To: shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in +Message-ID: <3F4F5C82.18176.44007A5@localhost> +In-reply-to: +X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) +Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT +Content-description: Mail message body +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/483 +X-Sequence-Number: 3299 + +On 28 Aug 2003 at 20:16, Anders K. Pedersen wrote: + +> Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> > On 28 Aug 2003 at 1:07, Anders K. Pedersen wrote: +> >>We're running a set of Half-Life based game servers that lookup user +> >>privileges from a central PostgreSQL 7.3.4 database server (I recently +> >>ported the MySQL code in Adminmod to PostgreSQL to be able to do this). +> >> +> >>The data needed by the game servers are combined from several different +> >>tables, so we have some views set up to provide the data in the format +> >>needed. +> >> +> >>Currently there's only a few users in the database for testing purposes, +> >>and most of the time the user lookup's take 2-3 ms (I have syslog'ing of +> >>queries and duration turned on), but several times per hour the duration +> >>for one of the queries is 2-3 seconds (1000 times larger), while the +> >>surrounding lookups take the usual 2-3 ms. +> > +> > +> > Check vmstat during the same period if it is syncing at that point as Tom +> > suggested. +> +> I've been running a vmstat 1 logging process for a while now, and the +> sample below shows what happende around one of these spikes - at +> 18:18:03 specifically (actually there were two 1 second long queries, +> that finished at 18:18:03). +> +> Thu Aug 28 18:17:53 2003 0 0 0 40904 4568 22288 404352 0 0 +> 12 0 181 362 2 1 97 +> Thu Aug 28 18:17:54 2003 0 0 0 40904 4580 22260 404380 0 0 +> 128 0 205 330 2 3 95 +> Thu Aug 28 18:17:55 2003 0 0 2 40904 4576 22264 404380 0 0 +> 0 284 224 127 0 1 99 +> Thu Aug 28 18:17:56 2003 0 0 2 40904 5008 22268 404512 0 0 +> 128 728 571 492 2 3 95 +> Thu Aug 28 18:17:57 2003 0 0 1 40904 5000 22276 404512 0 0 +> 0 120 201 181 1 0 99 +> Thu Aug 28 18:17:58 2003 0 0 1 40904 4936 22284 404528 0 0 +> 8 0 1147 2204 12 3 85 +> Thu Aug 28 18:17:59 2003 0 0 0 40904 4784 22304 404660 0 0 +> 148 0 2112 3420 2 3 95 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:00 2003 1 1 3 40904 4760 22324 404664 0 0 +> 20 456 2374 3277 2 1 97 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:01 2003 0 2 10 40904 4436 22000 401456 0 0 +> 144 540 510 457 11 6 83 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:02 2003 1 1 2 40904 8336 22032 401512 0 0 +> 68 676 1830 2540 4 3 93 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:04 2003 1 0 1 40904 8160 22052 401664 0 0 +> 140 220 2308 3253 2 3 95 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:05 2003 0 0 1 40904 7748 22064 402064 0 0 +> 288 0 1941 2856 1 3 96 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:06 2003 0 0 3 40904 6704 22064 403100 0 0 +> 496 992 2326 3510 0 5 95 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:07 2003 1 0 0 40904 6324 22088 402716 0 0 +> 260 188 1984 2927 11 4 85 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:08 2003 0 0 0 40904 6920 22088 402828 0 0 +> 72 0 419 1473 17 5 78 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:09 2003 0 0 0 40904 6784 22088 402964 0 0 +> 128 0 235 476 2 1 97 +> Thu Aug 28 18:18:10 2003 0 0 1 40904 6404 22088 402980 0 0 +> 0 0 343 855 14 2 84 +> + +Notice a pattern. In first few entries free memory is increasing coupled with +IO. Few entries down the line it's decreasing again with IO. I would guess +that something terminated and started.. + +However given how idle CPU is, I wonder would it matter. Besides changes in +stats are pretty small to be any significant. I wouldn't worry about context +switches or interrupts. They don't seem to be any dramatic.. + +I wonder what kernel you are using. While running pgbench on 2.4 and 2.6 couple +of days back, I noticed several stalls with 2.4 where neither CPU or disk does +anything but nothing moves forward, for 30 sec. or so. + +If possible try with 2.6 Check which scheduler you are using and which works +best for you. + + http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=105743728122143&w=2 + +If you want a step by step how to install 2.6, I can give that too.. It's +pretty simple.. + +> > Are you using pooled connections? If yes you could shorten life of a connection +> > and force making a new connection every 10-15 minutes say. That would avoid IO +> > avelanche at the end of the hour types. +> +> I'm not quite sure, what you mean by "pooled connections". Each game +> server has one connection to the PostgreSQL server, which is opened, +> when the server is first started, and then never closed (until the game +> server terminates, but there's days between this happens). + +I would say let each server start a new connection every 15 minutes. As soon as +new connection is established, close old one. + +See if that cures the problem. Apache uses similar methods albeit it measure by +nubmer of requests served by each child. + +HTH + +Bye + Shridhar + +-- +It is necessary to have purpose. -- Alice #1, "I, Mudd", stardate 4513.3 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 05:39:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A422DD1B8AB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:39:23 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01251-09 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:39:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.cict.nl (vnd-7521.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl [62.234.149.33]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00DC2D1B8B3 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:39:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from APR ([192.168.150.182]) + by mail.cict.nl (Merak 6.0.5) with SMTP id DUC73886; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:39:11 +0200 +Message-ID: <018c01c36e09$4893e980$b696a8c0@APR> +From: "Alexander Priem" +To: "Tomasz Myrta" +Cc: +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> + <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F07CE.6090803@klaster.net> +Subject: Re: Indexing question +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:41:04 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/484 +X-Sequence-Number: 3300 + +I think I understand what you mean :) + +Let's see if that's true : + +The entire table WAS like this: (just one example table, I have many more) + +create table orderadvice ( +orad_id serial primary key, +orad_name varchar(25) unique not null, +orad_description varchar(50) default null, +orad_value integer not null default 0, +orad_value_quan integer references quantity (quan_id) not null default 0, +orad_deleted boolean not null default false, +orad_deleteddate date default null, +orad_deletedby integer references systemuser (user_id) default null ) +without oids; + +Indexes were like this: + +create index orad_deleted_index on orderadvice (orad_deleted); +(orad_id and orad_name indexed implicitly in the create table statement) + +A view on this table: + +create view orderadvice_edit as select +orad_id,orad_name,orad_description,orad_value,orad_value_quan from +orderadvice where not orad_deleted; + +Most queries on this view would be like 'select * from orderadvice_edit +where orad_id=100' or 'select * from orderadvice_edit order by orad_name'. + +How about the following script. Would it be better, given the type of +queries that would take place on this table? + +create table orderadvice ( +orad_id serial primary key, +orad_name varchar(25) not null, +orad_description varchar(50) default null, +orad_value integer not null default 0, +orad_value_quan integer references quantity (quan_id) not null default 0, +orad_deleteddate date default null, +orad_deletedby integer references systemuser (user_id) default null ) +without oids; + +create index orad_id_index on orderadvice (orad_id) where orad_deleteddate +is null; +create index orad_name_index on orderadvice (orad_name) where +orad_deleteddate is null; + +create view orderadvice_edit as select +orad_id,orad_name,orad_description,orad_value,orad_value_quan from +orderadvice where orad_deleteddate is null; + +Would queries like 'select * from orderadvice_edit where orad_id=100' or +'select * from orderadvice_edit order by orad_name' both use one of these +two partial indexes, given enough records are present in the table? + +There would be a double index on the primary key this way, right? + +Thanks for your advice so far, +Alexander Priem. + + + + + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Tomasz Myrta" +To: "Alexander Priem" +Cc: +Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 9:59 AM +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Indexing question + + +> > So if I understand correctly I could ditch the 'deleted' field entirely +and +> > use just the 'deleteddate' field. This 'deleteddate' field would be NULL +by +> > default. It would contain a date value if the record is considered +> > 'deleted'. +> > +> > The index would be 'create index a on tablename(deleteddate) where +> > deleteddate is null'. +> > +> > I could then access 'current' records with a view like 'create view +x_view +> > as select * from tablename where deleteddate is null'. +> > +> > Is that correct? This would be the best performing solution for this +kind of +> > thing, I think (theoretically at least)? +> > +> > Kind regards, +> > Alexander Priem. +> +> Near, but not exactly. You don't need field deleted - it's true. +> +> Your example: +> create index a on tablename(deleteddate) where deleteddate is null +> we can translate to: +> create index a on tablename(NULL) where deleteddate is null +> which doesn't make too much sense. +> +> Check your queries. You probably have something like this: +> select * from tablename where not deleted and xxx +> +> Create your index to match xxx clause - if xxx is "some_id=13", then +> create your index as: +> create index on tablename(some_id) where deleteddate is null; +> +> Regards, +> Tomasz Myrta +> + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 05:57:50 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B48D1B574 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:57:48 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 06763-01 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:57:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from serwer.skawsoft.com.pl (serwer.skawsoft.com.pl [213.25.37.66]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C24BD1B8AE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 05:57:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from klaster.net (core-1.citynet.pl [80.48.135.69]) + by serwer.skawsoft.com.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 508502B3A4; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:57:15 +0200 (CEST) +Message-ID: <3F4F1575.8090600@klaster.net> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:57:25 +0200 +From: Tomasz Myrta +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; pl-PL; + rv:1.5a) Gecko/20030718 +X-Accept-Language: pl, en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Alexander Priem +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Indexing question +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> + <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F07CE.6090803@klaster.net> + <018c01c36e09$4893e980$b696a8c0@APR> +In-Reply-To: <018c01c36e09$4893e980$b696a8c0@APR> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/485 +X-Sequence-Number: 3301 + +> create index orad_id_index on orderadvice (orad_id) where orad_deleteddate +> is null; +> create index orad_name_index on orderadvice (orad_name) where +> orad_deleteddate is null; +> +> create view orderadvice_edit as select +> orad_id,orad_name,orad_description,orad_value,orad_value_quan from +> orderadvice where orad_deleteddate is null; +> +> Would queries like 'select * from orderadvice_edit where orad_id=100' or +> 'select * from orderadvice_edit order by orad_name' both use one of these +> two partial indexes, given enough records are present in the table? +> +> There would be a double index on the primary key this way, right? + +It looks much better now. I'm not sure about the second index. Probably +it will be useless, because you sort ALL records with deleteddtata is +null. Maybe the first index will be enough. + +I'm not sure what to do with doubled index on a primary key field. + +Regards, +Tomasz Myrta + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 06:07:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448B2D1B8E5 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:07:02 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 05293-05 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:06:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.cict.nl (vnd-7521.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl [62.234.149.33]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D23D1B8D2 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:06:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from APR ([192.168.150.182]) + by mail.cict.nl (Merak 6.0.5) with SMTP id DUC73886; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:06:28 +0200 +Message-ID: <01bf01c36e0d$18769280$b696a8c0@APR> +From: "Alexander Priem" +To: "Tomasz Myrta" +Cc: +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> + <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F07CE.6090803@klaster.net> + <018c01c36e09$4893e980$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F1575.8090600@klaster.net> +Subject: Re: Indexing question +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:08:21 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/486 +X-Sequence-Number: 3302 + +The first index is for sorting on orad_id, the second one for sorting on +orad_name. The first one would be useful for queries like 'select * from +orderadvice_edit where orad_id=100', the second one for queries like 'select +* from orderadvice_edit order by orad_name'. Right? + +Does anyone know whether it is bad practise to have two indexes on the +primary key of a table? (one 'primary key' index and one partial index) + + + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Tomasz Myrta" +To: "Alexander Priem" +Cc: +Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 10:57 AM +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Indexing question + + +> > create index orad_id_index on orderadvice (orad_id) where +orad_deleteddate +> > is null; +> > create index orad_name_index on orderadvice (orad_name) where +> > orad_deleteddate is null; +> > +> > create view orderadvice_edit as select +> > orad_id,orad_name,orad_description,orad_value,orad_value_quan from +> > orderadvice where orad_deleteddate is null; +> > +> > Would queries like 'select * from orderadvice_edit where orad_id=100' or +> > 'select * from orderadvice_edit order by orad_name' both use one of +these +> > two partial indexes, given enough records are present in the table? +> > +> > There would be a double index on the primary key this way, right? +> +> It looks much better now. I'm not sure about the second index. Probably +> it will be useless, because you sort ALL records with deleteddtata is +> null. Maybe the first index will be enough. +> +> I'm not sure what to do with doubled index on a primary key field. +> +> Regards, +> Tomasz Myrta +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 09:05:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2B6D1B8AB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:05:45 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 17587-03 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:05:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B35D1B8A4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:05:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao04.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030829120537.OFLG419.lakemtao04.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:05:37 -0400 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <3F4F59A8.20966.434E2AD@localhost> +References: <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> + <3F4F59A8.20966.434E2AD@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062158736.669.5.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:05:36 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/487 +X-Sequence-Number: 3303 + +On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 03:18, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> On 29 Aug 2003 at 0:05, William Yu wrote: +> +> > Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +[snip] +> > As for performance, the scaling is magnificient -- even when just using +> > PAE instead of 64-bit addressing. At low transaction counts, it's only +> > ~75% faster than the 2x Athlon 1800+ MP it replaced. But once the +> > transactions start coming in, the gap is as high as 5x. My w-a-g: since +> > each CPU has an integrated memory controller, you avoid memory bus +> > contention which is probably the major bottleneck as transaction load +> > increases. (I've seen Opteron several vs Xeon comparisons where +> > single-connection tests are par for both CPUs but heavy-load tests favor +> > the Opteron by a wide margin.) I suspect the 4X comparisons would tilt +> > even more towards AMD's favor. +> +> I am sure. But is 64 bit environment, Xeon is not the compitition. It's PA-RSC- +> 8700, ultraSparcs, Power series and if possible itanium. + +IMO, Opti will compete in *both* markets. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Adventure is a sign of incompetence" +Stephanson, great polar explorer + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 09:50:25 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2419DD1B8AB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:50:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 19680-05 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:49:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ainea-ag.de (unknown [195.145.148.245]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 17DE7D1B8BB + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:49:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 4550 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 12:49:59 -0000 +Received: from kanzler.ainea-ag.de (HELO allanon.ainea-ag.de) + (@195.145.148.242) + by grinch.ainea-ag.de with SMTP; 29 Aug 2003 12:49:59 -0000 +Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030829144416.03be0248@195.145.148.245> +X-Sender: fkreitner@195.145.148.245 +X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:52:10 +0200 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +From: Fabian Kreitner +Subject: Force table to be permanently in cache? +In-Reply-To: <1061995033.15800.138.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +References: <3F4CBD8A.4050309@potentialtech.com> + <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4C1364.6080602@potentialtech.com> + <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4CBD8A.4050309@potentialtech.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/488 +X-Sequence-Number: 3304 + +Hi everyone, + +I have a sql request which on first invocation completes in ~12sec but then +drops to ~3sec on the following runs. The 3 seconds would be acceptable but +how can I make sure that the data is cached and all times? Is it simply +enough to set shared_buffers high enough to hold the entire database (and +have enough ram installed of course)? The OS is linux in this case. + + +Nested Loop (cost=0.00..11.44 rows=1 width=362) (actual +time=247.83..12643.96 rows=14700 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using suchec_testa on suchec (cost=0.00..6.02 rows=1 +width=23) (actual time=69.91..902.68 rows=42223 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using idx_dokument on dokument d (cost=0.00..5.41 rows=1 +width=339) (actual time=0.26..0.26 rows=0 loops=42223) +Total runtime: 12662.64 msec + + +Nested Loop (cost=0.00..11.44 rows=1 width=362) (actual time=1.18..2829.79 +rows=14700 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using suchec_testa on suchec (cost=0.00..6.02 rows=1 +width=23) (actual time=0.51..661.75 rows=42223 loops=1) + -> Index Scan using idx_dokument on dokument d (cost=0.00..5.41 rows=1 +width=339) (actual time=0.04..0.04 rows=0 loops=42223) +Total runtime: 2846.63 msec + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 09:53:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32608D1B897 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:53:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 20978-03 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:52:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D34BFD1B8EE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:52:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 5378 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 12:52:34 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 29 Aug 2003 12:52:34 -0000 +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:52:34 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Ken Geis +Cc: Bruno Wolff III , + "pgsql-performance@postgresql.org" +Subject: Re: bad estimates +In-Reply-To: <3F4F0C15.6040802@speakeasy.org> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/489 +X-Sequence-Number: 3305 + +On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Ken Geis wrote: + +> Some good news here. Doing the same as above on 7.4beta2 took 29 +> minutes. Now, the 7.3.3 was on reiser and 7.4 on ext2, so take that as +> you will. 7.4's index selectivity estimate seems much better; 7.3.3's +> anticipated rows was ten times the actual; 7.4's is one half of the actual. +> +Min() & Max() unfortunatly suck on PG. It will be that way for a while +perhaps at some point someone will make a "special" case and convince +-HACKERS it is a Good Thing(tm) (Like select count(*) from table being +'cached' - a lot of people probably get bad first impressions because of +that) + +Would it be possible ot rewrite your queries replacing min/max with a +select stock_id from bigtable where blah = blorch order by stock_id +(desc|asc) limit 1? because that would enable PG to use an index and +magically "go fast". You may need a subselect.. + + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 10:55:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF2BD1B8B1 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:55:32 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 24437-06 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:55:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from router.intranet.de (morpheus.vitrado.de [194.97.5.114]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D07D1B8AD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:54:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from 192.168.1.50 ([192.168.1.50]) + by router.intranet.de (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id + h7TDsMY19092 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:54:24 +0200 +From: Oliver Siegmar +Organization: Vitrado GmbH +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: PL/pgSQL functions - text / varchar - havy performance issue?! +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:54:46 +0200 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308291554.46748.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/490 +X-Sequence-Number: 3306 + +Hi, + +I'm using PostgreSQL 7.3.4 and noticed a havy performance issue when +using the datatype text for PL/pgSQL functions instead of varchar. + +This is the table: + +CREATE TABLE user_login_table ( + id serial, + username varchar(100), + PRIMARY ID (id), + UNIQUE (username) +); + +This table contains ~ 500.000 records. The database runs on a P4 with +512 MB RAM. When using the following functions, I notice a havy +speed difference: + + +CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION get_foo_exists (varchar(100)) +RETURNS bool +AS ' + BEGIN + PERFORM username + FROM user_login_table + WHERE username = $1; + + RETURN FOUND; + END; +' +LANGUAGE 'plpgsql'; + +CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION get_foo_exists2 (text) +RETURNS bool +AS ' + BEGIN + PERFORM username + FROM user_login_table + WHERE username = $1; + + RETURN FOUND; + END; +' +LANGUAGE 'plpgsql'; + + + +The function 'get_foo_exists (varchar(100))' is extremly fast +(can't estimate - < 0.5 seconds). The function 'get_foo_exists2 (text)' +takes about 3 seconds for the same operation. +Is that normal? + + +Bye, +Oliver + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 11:00:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27ADD1B8B1 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:00:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 26389-03 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:00:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEE02D1B8AC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:00:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7TE0EjX015993; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:00:14 -0400 (EDT) +To: "Alexander Priem" +Cc: "Tomasz Myrta" , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Indexing question +In-reply-to: <01bf01c36e0d$18769280$b696a8c0@APR> +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> + <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F07CE.6090803@klaster.net> + <018c01c36e09$4893e980$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F1575.8090600@klaster.net> + <01bf01c36e0d$18769280$b696a8c0@APR> +Comments: In-reply-to "Alexander Priem" + message dated "Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:08:21 +0200" +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:00:14 -0400 +Message-ID: <15992.1062165614@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/491 +X-Sequence-Number: 3307 + +"Alexander Priem" writes: +> Does anyone know whether it is bad practise to have two indexes on the +> primary key of a table? (one 'primary key' index and one partial index) + +It's a little unusual, but if you get enough performance boost from it +to justify the maintenance cost of the extra index, then I can't see +anything wrong with it. + +The "if" is worth checking though. I missed the start of this thread, +but what percentage of your rows do you expect to have null deleteddate? +Unless it's a pretty small percentage, I'm unconvinced that the extra +indexes will be worth their cost. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 11:05:27 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FB1D1B8AC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:05:16 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 24437-08 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:05:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A642D1B8E0 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:05:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19sjsD-00035N-00 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:05:09 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id C4002CF47; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:05:08 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:05:08 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Message-ID: <20030829140503.GA19388@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <1061953146.18108.291.camel@haggis> + <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/492 +X-Sequence-Number: 3308 + +On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 12:05:03AM -0700, William Yu wrote: +> We should see a boost when we move to 64-bit Linux and hopefully another +> one when NUMA for Linux is production-stable. + +According to the people who've worked with SGIs, NUMA actually seems +to make things worse. It has something to do with how the shared +memory is handled. You'll want to dig through the -general or +-hackers archives from somewhere between 9 and 14 months ago, IIRC. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 11:35:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6F1ED1B8AC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:26:58 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 25570-09 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:26:30 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51D0CD1B8B1 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:26:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19skCt-0003Vl-00 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:26:31 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id BD2FACF47; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:26:30 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:26:30 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Force table to be permanently in cache? +Message-ID: <20030829142630.GE19388@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <3F4CBD8A.4050309@potentialtech.com> + <1061948112.15800.53.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4C1364.6080602@potentialtech.com> + <1061990263.15800.124.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> + <3F4CBD8A.4050309@potentialtech.com> + <5.1.0.14.0.20030829144416.03be0248@195.145.148.245> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030829144416.03be0248@195.145.148.245> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/493 +X-Sequence-Number: 3309 + +On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 02:52:10PM +0200, Fabian Kreitner wrote: +> Hi everyone, +> +> I have a sql request which on first invocation completes in ~12sec but then +> drops to ~3sec on the following runs. The 3 seconds would be acceptable but +> how can I make sure that the data is cached and all times? Is it simply +> enough to set shared_buffers high enough to hold the entire database (and +> have enough ram installed of course)? The OS is linux in this case. + +If the table gets hit often enough, then it'll be in your filesystem +cache anyway. See the many discussions of sizing shared_buffers in +the archives of this list for thoughts on how big that should be. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 11:47:32 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77757D1B8AC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:47:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 27003-10 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:46:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta4.adelphia.net (mta4.adelphia.net [68.168.78.184]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159BBD1B8A4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:46:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta4.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030829144645.BXAT10404.mta4.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:46:45 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4F6754.8050900@potentialtech.com> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:46:44 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Oliver Siegmar +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PL/pgSQL functions - text / varchar - havy performance +References: <200308291554.46748.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> +In-Reply-To: <200308291554.46748.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/494 +X-Sequence-Number: 3310 + +Oliver Siegmar wrote: +> Hi, +> +> I'm using PostgreSQL 7.3.4 and noticed a havy performance issue when +> using the datatype text for PL/pgSQL functions instead of varchar. +> +> This is the table: +> +> CREATE TABLE user_login_table ( +> id serial, +> username varchar(100), +> PRIMARY ID (id), +> UNIQUE (username) +> ); +> +> This table contains ~ 500.000 records. The database runs on a P4 with +> 512 MB RAM. When using the following functions, I notice a havy +> speed difference: +> +> +> CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION get_foo_exists (varchar(100)) +> RETURNS bool +> AS ' +> BEGIN +> PERFORM username +> FROM user_login_table +> WHERE username = $1; +> +> RETURN FOUND; +> END; +> ' +> LANGUAGE 'plpgsql'; +> +> CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION get_foo_exists2 (text) +> RETURNS bool +> AS ' +> BEGIN +> PERFORM username +> FROM user_login_table +> WHERE username = $1; +> +> RETURN FOUND; +> END; +> ' +> LANGUAGE 'plpgsql'; +> +> +> +> The function 'get_foo_exists (varchar(100))' is extremly fast +> (can't estimate - < 0.5 seconds). The function 'get_foo_exists2 (text)' +> takes about 3 seconds for the same operation. +> Is that normal? + +I don't know if it's normal for it to be that slow, but I would +expect it to be slower. + +Postgres has to convert the text to a varchar before it can actually +do anything. It's possible (though I'm not sure) that it has to +do the conversion with each record it looks at. + +Every language I know of hits performance issues when you have to +convert between types. I wouldn't _think_ that it would be that +much work converting between text and varchar, but I'm not familiar +enough with the server code to know what's actually involved. + +What kind of performance do you get if you accept a text value +and then manually convert it to a varchar? + +i.e. + +CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION get_foo_exists2 (text) +RETURNS bool +AS ' + DECLARE + tempvar VARCHAR(100); + BEGIN + tempvar := $1; + PERFORM username + FROM user_login_table + WHERE username = tempvar; + + RETURN FOUND; + END; +' +LANGUAGE 'plpgsql'; + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 12:02:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADA6D1B8AD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:02:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 31436-02 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:02:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from router.intranet.de (morpheus.vitrado.de [194.97.5.114]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3112D1B8A4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:02:26 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from 192.168.1.50 ([192.168.1.50]) + by router.intranet.de (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id + h7TF1RY20572; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:01:28 +0200 +From: Oliver Siegmar +Organization: Vitrado GmbH +To: Bill Moran +Subject: Re: PL/pgSQL functions - text / varchar - havy performance issue?! +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:01:51 +0200 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 +References: <200308291554.46748.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> + <3F4F6754.8050900@potentialtech.com> +In-Reply-To: <3F4F6754.8050900@potentialtech.com> +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308291701.51853.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/496 +X-Sequence-Number: 3312 + +Hi Bill, + +On Friday 29 August 2003 16:46, you wrote: +> Postgres has to convert the text to a varchar before it can actually +> do anything. It's possible (though I'm not sure) that it has to +> do the conversion with each record it looks at. + +Nope. I tested you function with the temporary varchar variable...it +is as slow as the 'text-only' varayity. + +> Every language I know of hits performance issues when you have to +> convert between types. I wouldn't _think_ that it would be that +> much work converting between text and varchar, but I'm not familiar +> enough with the server code to know what's actually involved. + +I have absolutely no idea how pgsql handles text/varchar stuff +in its server code. But ~ 3 seconds for that small function is ways +to slow in any case. + + +Bye, +Oliver + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 12:02:31 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F8DD1B8AD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:02:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 31432-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:01:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CA9D1B8B4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:01:52 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19skl6-00047E-00 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:01:52 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id E0AB8D0C1; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:01:51 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:01:51 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PL/pgSQL functions - text / varchar - havy performance +Message-ID: <20030829150151.GI19388@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <200308291554.46748.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> + <3F4F6754.8050900@potentialtech.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4F6754.8050900@potentialtech.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/495 +X-Sequence-Number: 3311 + +On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 10:46:44AM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: +> +> Postgres has to convert the text to a varchar before it can actually +> do anything. It's possible (though I'm not sure) that it has to +> do the conversion with each record it looks at. + +It does? According to the docs, varchar is just syntactic sugar for +text. In fact, text and varchar() are supposed to be exactly the +same. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 12:03:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2AC1D1B8AD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:03:17 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 31949-01 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:02:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from megazone.bigpanda.com (45.mufb.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net + [12.103.249.45]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1BDD1B8B3 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:02:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 18DE3D594; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:02:27 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by megazone.bigpanda.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 0694C5C03; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:02:27 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:02:26 -0700 (PDT) +From: Stephan Szabo +To: Ken Geis +Cc: Bruno Wolff III , + +Subject: Re: bad estimates +In-Reply-To: <3F4F0A5E.8030207@speakeasy.org> +Message-ID: <20030829080036.V37443-100000@megazone.bigpanda.com> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/497 +X-Sequence-Number: 3313 + +On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Ken Geis wrote: + +> Ken Geis wrote: +> > I went through the code (7.4 beta2) that estimates the cost of an index +> > scan path. What I need to be sure of is that when running a query in +> > pgsql that uses only the columns that are in an index, the underlying +> > table need not be accessed. I know that Oracle does this. +> +> Thinking about it some more, it's obvious to me that a pgsql index scan +> must be accessing the underlying table even though all of the +> information needed is in the index itself. A linear scan of a 660M file +> should not take 55 minutes. I could confirm this with stats, but +> someone out there probably already knows the answer here. + +Unfortunately not all the information needed is in the index. You can't +tell from the index alone currently whether or not the row is visible to +you. Adding said information would be possible but there are downsides to +that as well (there are some past discussions on the topic, but I'm too +lazy to look them up to give a link, check the archives ;) ). + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 12:12:48 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224D3D1B8AD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:12:45 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 29385-08 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:12:13 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.cict.nl (vnd-7521.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl [62.234.149.33]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 989EDD1B8A4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:12:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from APR ([192.168.150.182]) + by mail.cict.nl (Merak 6.0.5) with SMTP id DUC73886; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:12:00 +0200 +Message-ID: <027701c36e40$2851aef0$b696a8c0@APR> +From: "Alexander Priem" +To: "Tom Lane" +Cc: +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> + <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F07CE.6090803@klaster.net> + <018c01c36e09$4893e980$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F1575.8090600@klaster.net> + <01bf01c36e0d$18769280$b696a8c0@APR> + <15992.1062165614@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Indexing question +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:13:52 +0200 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/498 +X-Sequence-Number: 3314 + +Well, the intention is to hold every record that ever existed in the table. +Therefore, records do not get deleted, but they get a date in the +deleteddate field. This way, we can track what changes were made to the +table(s). + +So if a record gets 'deleted', the field 'deleted' is set to today's date. +If a record gets 'updated', a new record is made containing the new data, +and the old record is marked as 'deleted'. + +So the percentage of 'deleted' records will grow with time, if you +understand what I mean. + + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Tom Lane" +To: "Alexander Priem" +Cc: "Tomasz Myrta" ; +Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 4:00 PM +Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Indexing question + + +> "Alexander Priem" writes: +> > Does anyone know whether it is bad practise to have two indexes on the +> > primary key of a table? (one 'primary key' index and one partial index) +> +> It's a little unusual, but if you get enough performance boost from it +> to justify the maintenance cost of the extra index, then I can't see +> anything wrong with it. +> +> The "if" is worth checking though. I missed the start of this thread, +> but what percentage of your rows do you expect to have null deleteddate? +> Unless it's a pretty small percentage, I'm unconvinced that the extra +> indexes will be worth their cost. +> +> regards, tom lane + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 12:35:00 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E24D1B574 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:34:56 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33843-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:34:45 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta6.adelphia.net (mta6.adelphia.net [68.168.78.190]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79DA9D1B8D2 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:34:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from potentialtech.com ([24.53.179.151]) by mta6.adelphia.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with ESMTP + id <20030829153415.TCDL18217.mta6.adelphia.net@potentialtech.com>; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:34:15 -0400 +Message-ID: <3F4F7275.5030203@potentialtech.com> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:34:13 -0400 +From: Bill Moran +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030429 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Andrew Sullivan +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PL/pgSQL functions - text / varchar - havy performance +References: <200308291554.46748.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> + <3F4F6754.8050900@potentialtech.com> + <20030829150151.GI19388@libertyrms.info> +In-Reply-To: <20030829150151.GI19388@libertyrms.info> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/499 +X-Sequence-Number: 3315 + +Andrew Sullivan wrote: +> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 10:46:44AM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: +> +>>Postgres has to convert the text to a varchar before it can actually +>>do anything. It's possible (though I'm not sure) that it has to +>>do the conversion with each record it looks at. +> +> It does? According to the docs, varchar is just syntactic sugar for +> text. In fact, text and varchar() are supposed to be exactly the +> same. + +Really? Well, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. + +Have any explanation as to why that function is so slow? + +-- +Bill Moran +Potential Technologies +http://www.potentialtech.com + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 12:54:44 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B124BD1B8A5 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:54:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 34807-05 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:54:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AE6D1B8AD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:54:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19slZa-00050U-00 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:54:02 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id D2084D0C0; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:54:01 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:54:01 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: PL/pgSQL functions - text / varchar - havy performance +Message-ID: <20030829155401.GM19388@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <200308291554.46748.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> + <3F4F6754.8050900@potentialtech.com> + <20030829150151.GI19388@libertyrms.info> + <3F4F7275.5030203@potentialtech.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4F7275.5030203@potentialtech.com> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/500 +X-Sequence-Number: 3316 + +On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:34:13AM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: +> Have any explanation as to why that function is so slow? + +Sorry, no. It might have to do with the planning, though. I believe +the funciton is planned the first time it is run. It may need to be +marked as "STABLE" in order to use any indexes, and that could be +part of the problem. + +A + +-- +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 13:07:15 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB27FD1B8BD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:07:04 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 34680-07 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:06:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail11.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.211]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE0CD1B8E0 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:06:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 1736 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 16:06:32 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail11.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 29 Aug 2003 16:06:32 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4F7A07.30404@speakeasy.org> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:06:31 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/501 +X-Sequence-Number: 3317 + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> If you want both the max and the min, then things are going to be a bit +> more work. You are either going to want to do two separate selects +> or join two selects or use subselects. If there aren't enough prices +> per stock, the sequential scan might be fastest since you only need to +> go through the table once and don't have to hit the index blocks. +> +> It is still odd that you didn't get a big speed up for just the min though. + +I found I'm suffering from an effect detailed in a previous thread titled + + Does "correlation" mislead the optimizer on large tables? + + +Ken + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 13:18:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B47D1B915 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:18:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 35872-07 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:18:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF92D1B8CD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:18:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7TGIZjX028310; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:18:36 -0400 (EDT) +To: Andrew Sullivan +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org, Oliver Siegmar , + Bill Moran +Subject: Re: PL/pgSQL functions - text / varchar - havy performance +In-reply-to: <20030829155401.GM19388@libertyrms.info> +References: <200308291554.46748.o.siegmar@vitrado.de> + <3F4F6754.8050900@potentialtech.com> + <20030829150151.GI19388@libertyrms.info> + <3F4F7275.5030203@potentialtech.com> + <20030829155401.GM19388@libertyrms.info> +Comments: In-reply-to Andrew Sullivan + message dated "Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:54:01 -0400" +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:18:35 -0400 +Message-ID: <28309.1062173915@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/502 +X-Sequence-Number: 3318 + +Andrew Sullivan writes: +> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:34:13AM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: +>> Have any explanation as to why that function is so slow? + +> Sorry, no. It might have to do with the planning, though. + +Specifically, I'll bet he's getting an indexscan plan with one and not +with the other. It's just ye olde cross-datatype-comparisons-aren't- +indexable problem. "varchar = varchar" matches the index on the varchar +column, but "text = text" is a different operator that doesn't match. +Guess which one gets selected when the initial input is "varchar = text". + +7.4 has fixed this particular problem by essentially eliminating the +separate operators for varchar, but in prior releases the behavior +Oliver describes is entirely to be expected. A workaround is to +cast inside the function: + + ... where varcharcolumn = textarg::varchar; + +so that "=" gets interpreted as "varchar = varchar". + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 13:27:34 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC59D1B8B7 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:27:33 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 35901-09 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:27:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from smtp.pspl.co.in (unknown [202.54.11.65]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04619D1B8AC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:27:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from root@localhost) + by smtp.pspl.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) id h7TGW8gS021324 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:02:08 +0530 +Received: from daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in (daithan.intranet.pspl.co.in + [192.168.7.161]) (authenticated bits=0) + by persistent.co.in (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7TGW7hi021309 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:02:07 +0530 +From: Shridhar Daithankar +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: 2.4 v/s 2.6 again. +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:59:14 +0530 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5.2 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; + boundary="Boundary-00=_a93T/ZnXOWqUH/q" +Message-Id: <200308292159.14095.shridhar_daithankar@persistent.co.in> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/503 +X-Sequence-Number: 3319 + +--Boundary-00=_a93T/ZnXOWqUH/q +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="us-ascii" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline + +Hi all, + +I compared 2.6 with elevator=deadline. It did bring some improvement in +performance. But still it does not beat 2.4. + +Attached are three files for details. + +I also ran a simple insert benchmark to insert a million record in a simple +table with a small int and a varchar(30). + +Here are the results + +2.6 deadline +1K/xact 299sec +10K/xact 277 sec +100K/xact 271 sec + +2.6 AS +1K/xact 262sec +10K/xact Not done +100K/xact 257 sec + +2.6 AS +1K/xact 252sec +10K/xact 243 sec +100K/xact 246 sec + +It seems that I noted a test result wrongly. I need to do it again. + +Overall 2.6 needs some real IO improvements. Of course it could do better on +multiway machine. + +I guess there is no point bothering this with kernel hackers. They know this +stuff already, right. + +Looking forward to next release of kernel and hope it improves things... + + Shridhar + +--Boundary-00=_a93T/ZnXOWqUH/q +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; + name="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.2.6.0-test4" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.2.6.0-test4" + +Vacumm full done after each run. +pg_resetlog run between each server start + +Scaling factor: 10 +Initialization time: +real 1m42.282s +user 0m1.787s +sys 0m0.121s + +Kernel 2.6.0-test4 +Effective cache size 38400 (300MB) +checkpoint segments=6 + +1)Shared buffers 1000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 131.962542 (including connections establishing) +tps = 134.418358 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 79.301493 (including connections establishing) +tps = 79.393258 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 64.917044 (including connections establishing) +tps = 65.438067 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 66.135615 (including connections establishing) +tps = 66.193039 (excluding connections establishing) + +2) Shared buffers 2000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 135.598994 (including connections establishing) +tps = 138.296634 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 81.331678 (including connections establishing) +tps = 81.425369 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 116.524476 (including connections establishing) +tps = 118.388407 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 64.659894 (including connections establishing) +tps = 64.719829 (excluding connections establishing) + +3) Shared buffers 3000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test +tps = 132.489569 (including connections establishing) +tps = 135.177003 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test +tps = 70.272855 (including connections establishing) +tps = 70.343452 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test +tps = 121.624524 (including connections establishing) +tps = 123.549086 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test +tps = 64.124644 (including connections establishing) +tps = 64.183736 (excluding connections establishing) + +4) noatime enabled Shared buffers 3000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test +tps = 90.850600 (including connections establishing) +tps = 92.053686 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test +tps = 92.209724 (including connections establishing) +tps = 92.329682 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test +tps = 79.264231 (including connections establishing) +tps = 80.145448 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test +tps = 70.439082 (including connections establishing) +tps = 70.506189 (excluding connections establishing) + +--Boundary-00=_a93T/ZnXOWqUH/q +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; + name="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.2.6.0-test4.deadline" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: attachment; + filename="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.2.6.0-test4.deadline" + +Vacumm full done after each run. +pg_resetlog run between each server start + +Scaling factor: 10 +Initialization time: +real 1m44.512s +user 0m1.765s +sys 0m0.134s + +Kernel 2.6.0-test4 +Effective cache size 38400 (300MB) +checkpoint segments=6 + +1)Shared buffers 1000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 135.647884 (including connections establishing) +tps = 138.318785 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 61.097461 (including connections establishing) +tps = 61.144720 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 121.626566 (including connections establishing) +tps = 123.517787 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 54.618036 (including connections establishing) +tps = 54.654704 (excluding connections establishing) + +2) Shared buffers 2000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 131.715307 (including connections establishing) +tps = 134.220729 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 74.486274 (including connections establishing) +tps = 74.559177 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 127.431602 (including connections establishing) +tps = 129.461754 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 51.840810 (including connections establishing) +tps = 51.875044 (excluding connections establishing) + +--Boundary-00=_a93T/ZnXOWqUH/q +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.24.20" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgbench.7.4CVSHEAD.24.20" + +Vacumm full done after each run. +pg_resetlog run between each server start + +Scaling factor: 10 +Initialization time: +real 1m32.551s +user 0m1.710s +sys 0m0.130s + +Kernel 2.4.20 +Effective cache size 38400 (300MB) +checkpoint segments=6 + +1)Shared buffers 1000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 145.504917 (including connections establishing) +tps = 147.991299 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 70.785341 (including connections establishing) +tps = 70.849065 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 147.605267 (including connections establishing) +tps = 149.944123 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 55.646866 (including connections establishing) +tps = 55.678399 (excluding connections establishing) + +2) Shared buffers 2000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 140.115444 (including connections establishing) +tps = 142.441377 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 77.015876 (including connections establishing) +tps = 77.084474 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 128.512768 (including connections establishing) +tps = 130.314689 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 55.003077 (including connections establishing) +tps = 55.035001 (excluding connections establishing) + +3) Shared buffers 3000 + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 153.142499 (including connections establishing) +tps = 156.094637 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 81.391878 (including connections establishing) +tps = 81.472845 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 120.420876 (including connections establishing) +tps = 122.066975 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 56.766460 (including connections establishing) +tps = 56.801117 (excluding connections establishing) + +4) Shared buffers 3000, noatime + +pgbench -c5 -t100 test1 +tps = 140.464589 (including connections establishing) +tps = 143.152323 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c5 -t1000 test1 +tps = 94.718161 (including connections establishing) +tps = 94.826618 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t100 test1 +tps = 131.925129 (including connections establishing) +tps = 133.826403 (excluding connections establishing) + +pgbench -c10 -t1000 test1 +tps = 65.374006 (including connections establishing) +tps = 65.458626 (excluding connections establishing) + +--Boundary-00=_a93T/ZnXOWqUH/q-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 13:52:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7967BD1B8FC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:52:53 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 41360-02 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:52:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (unknown [64.117.224.194]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732EBD1B8D8 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:52:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from news.hub.org (host-64-117-224-194.altec1.com [64.117.224.194] + (may be forged)) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7TGqZeo099002 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:52:41 GMT + (envelope-from news@news.hub.org) +Received: (from news@localhost) + by news.hub.org (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) id h7TGXxpS092681 + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:33:59 GMT +From: William Yu +X-Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.performance +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:33:51 -0700 +Organization: Hub.Org Networking Services +Lines: 48 +Message-ID: +References: <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> + <3F4F59A8.20966.434E2AD@localhost> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.hub.org +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +In-Reply-To: <3F4F59A8.20966.434E2AD@localhost> +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/505 +X-Sequence-Number: 3321 + +Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +> Just a guess here but does a precompiled postgresql for x86 and a x86-64 +> optimized one makes difference? + > + > Opteron is one place on earth you can watch difference between 32/64 + > bit on same machine. Can be handy at times.. + +I don't know yet. I tried building a 64-bit kernel and my eyes glazed +over trying to figure out how to create the cross-platform GCC compiler +that's first needed to build the kernel. Then I read all the libraries & +drivers also needed to be 64-bit compiled and at that point gave up the +ghost. I'll wait until a 64-bit Redhat distro is available before I test +the 64-bit capabilities. + +The preview SuSE 64-bit Linux used in most of the Opteron rollout tests +has MySql precompiled as 64-bit and under that DB, 64-bit added an extra + ~25% performance (compared to a 32-bit SuSE install). My guess is half +of the performance comes from eliminating the PAE swapping. + +> I am sure. But is 64 bit environment, Xeon is not the compitition. It's PA-RSC- +> 8700, ultraSparcs, Power series and if possible itanium. + +Well, just because the Opteron is 64-bit doesn't mean it's direct +competition for the high-end RISC chips. Yes, if you're looking at the +discrete CPU itself, it appears they could compete -- the SpecINT scores +places the Opteron near the top of the list. But big companies also need +the infrastructure, management tools and top-end scalability. If you +just have to have the million dollar machines (128x Itanium2 servers or +whatever), AMD is nowhere close to competing unless Beowulf clusters fit +your needs. + +In terms of infrastructure, scalability, mindshare and pricing, Xeon is +most certainly Opteron's main competition. We're talking <$10K servers +versus $50K+ servers (assuming you actually want performance instead of +having a single pokey UltraSparc CPU in a box). And yes, just because +Opteron is a better performing server platform than Xeon doesn't mean a +corporate fuddy-duddy still won't buy Xeon due to the $1B spent by Intel +on marketting. + +>>We should see a boost when we move to 64-bit Linux and hopefully another +>>one when NUMA for Linux is production-stable. +> +> Getting a 2.6 running now is the answer to make it stable fast..:-) Of course +> if you have spare hardware.. + +My office is a pigsty of spare hardware lying around. :) We're like pigs +rolling around in the mud. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 13:37:05 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5328BD1B8E0 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:37:03 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38635-06 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:36:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E0BD1B8CC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:36:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id 5209020F01; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:36:13 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:36:13 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: Ken Geis +Cc: Bruno Wolff III , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +Message-ID: <20030829163613.GA51475@perrin.nxad.com> +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4F7A07.30404@speakeasy.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4F7A07.30404@speakeasy.org> +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/504 +X-Sequence-Number: 3320 + +> >If you want both the max and the min, then things are going to be a +> >bit more work. You are either going to want to do two separate +> >selects or join two selects or use subselects. If there aren't +> >enough prices per stock, the sequential scan might be fastest since +> >you only need to go through the table once and don't have to hit +> >the index blocks. +> > +> >It is still odd that you didn't get a big speed up for just the min though. +> +> I found I'm suffering from an effect detailed in a previous thread titled +> +> Does "correlation" mislead the optimizer on large tables? + +I don't know about large tables, but this is a big problem and +something I'm going to spend some time validating later today. I +think Manfred's patch is pretty good and certainly better than where +we are but I haven't used it yet to see if it's the magic ticket for +many of these index problems. + +-sc + +-- +Sean Chittenden + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 14:00:43 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA59D1B8CD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:00:42 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 38886-10 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:00:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail7.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.207]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0A6D1B8CF + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:00:09 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 15274 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2003 16:57:00 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail7.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP + for ; 29 Aug 2003 16:57:00 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F4F85DB.2030402@speakeasy.org> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:56:59 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Sean Chittenden +Cc: Bruno Wolff III , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <3F4E99F7.7080604@speakeasy.org> <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> + <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> + <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4F7A07.30404@speakeasy.org> + <20030829163613.GA51475@perrin.nxad.com> +In-Reply-To: <20030829163613.GA51475@perrin.nxad.com> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/507 +X-Sequence-Number: 3323 + +Sean Chittenden wrote: +>>I found I'm suffering from an effect detailed in a previous thread titled +>> +>> Does "correlation" mislead the optimizer on large tables? +> +> +> I don't know about large tables, but this is a big problem and +> something I'm going to spend some time validating later today. I +> think Manfred's patch is pretty good and certainly better than where +> we are but I haven't used it yet to see if it's the magic ticket for +> many of these index problems. + +I had to dig through a lot of archives to find this. Is this the patch, +from last October? + +http://members.aon.at/pivot/pg/16-correlation.diff + +If so, I'll try it out and report my results. + + +Ken + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 13:59:26 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A38D1B914 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:59:24 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 40703-05 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:58:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from dp100.dp100.com (dsl093-082-153.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net + [66.93.82.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00B3D1B8CC + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:58:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from i386.dp100.com (i386.dp100.com [10.0.0.1]) + by dp100.dp100.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3C12064 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:58:51 -0400 (EDT) +Received: by i386.dp100.com (Postfix, from userid 501) + id 07877491F; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:58:51 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:58:51 -0400 +From: Richard Ellis +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: Indexing question +Message-ID: <20030829165850.GA28458@i386.dp100.com> +Mail-Followup-To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> + <3F4EFAB6.7030104@klaster.net> + <015f01c36e02$134fe960$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F07CE.6090803@klaster.net> + <018c01c36e09$4893e980$b696a8c0@APR> <3F4F1575.8090600@klaster.net> + <01bf01c36e0d$18769280$b696a8c0@APR> + <15992.1062165614@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <027701c36e40$2851aef0$b696a8c0@APR> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <027701c36e40$2851aef0$b696a8c0@APR> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/506 +X-Sequence-Number: 3322 + +On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 05:13:52PM +0200, Alexander Priem wrote: +> Well, the intention is to hold every record that ever existed in the table. +> Therefore, records do not get deleted, but they get a date in the +> deleteddate field. This way, we can track what changes were made to the +> table(s). +> +> So if a record gets 'deleted', the field 'deleted' is set to today's date. +> If a record gets 'updated', a new record is made containing the new data, +> and the old record is marked as 'deleted'. +> +> So the percentage of 'deleted' records will grow with time, if you +> understand what I mean. + +Did you consider a two table implimentation. 1 table "live_table" +containing the non-deleted records, a second table "deleted_table" +containing the deleted records, along with the "deleted_date" field. Keep +the two in sync column type/number wise, and use a before delete trigger +function on "live_table" to actually insert a copy of the deleted row plus +"deleted_date" into "deleted_table" before performing the delete on +"live_table". + +You could also use a before update trigger to keep old copies of updated +records in the same way. + +Then you would only incur the performance loss of scanning/etc. the deleted +records when you actually need to pull up deleted plus live records. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 14:04:04 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9048ED1B8CD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:04:03 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 40119-07 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:03:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from perrin.nxad.com (internal.nxad.com [69.1.70.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE08D1B8D8 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:03:31 -0300 (ADT) +Received: by perrin.nxad.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) + id CAFD321058; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:03:31 -0700 (PDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:03:31 -0700 +From: Sean Chittenden +To: Ken Geis +Cc: Bruno Wolff III , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +Message-ID: <20030829170331.GA51353@perrin.nxad.com> +References: <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> + <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> + <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4F7A07.30404@speakeasy.org> + <20030829163613.GA51475@perrin.nxad.com> + <3F4F85DB.2030402@speakeasy.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4F85DB.2030402@speakeasy.org> +X-PGP-Key: finger seanc@FreeBSD.org +X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3849 3760 1AFE 7B17 11A0 83A6 DD99 E31F BC84 B341 +X-Web-Homepage: http://sean.chittenden.org/ +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/508 +X-Sequence-Number: 3324 + +> >>I found I'm suffering from an effect detailed in a previous thread titled +> >> +> >> Does "correlation" mislead the optimizer on large tables? +> > +> > +> >I don't know about large tables, but this is a big problem and +> >something I'm going to spend some time validating later today. I +> >think Manfred's patch is pretty good and certainly better than where +> >we are but I haven't used it yet to see if it's the magic ticket for +> >many of these index problems. +> +> I had to dig through a lot of archives to find this. Is this the patch, +> from last October? +> +> http://members.aon.at/pivot/pg/16-correlation.diff +> +> If so, I'll try it out and report my results. + +Same guy, but that patch is pretty out of date and has been replaced +by some newer work that's much better. + +From: Manfred Koizar +Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Correlation in cost_index() +Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:57:12 +0200 +Message-ID: + + +and + + +From: Manfred Koizar +To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org +Subject: [HACKERS] Again on index correlation +Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:21:14 +0200 +Message-ID: + + +-sc + +-- +Sean Chittenden + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 14:20:10 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D88CD1B8D8 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:20:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 41427-06 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:19:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from ll.mit.edu (LLMAIL.LL.MIT.EDU [129.55.12.40]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B630D1B8E0 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:19:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from smtp@localhost) by ll.mit.edu (8.12.9/8.8.8) id h7THJhaX013834 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:19:43 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from sty.llan.ll.mit.edu( ), claiming to be "sty.llan" + via SMTP by llpost, id smtpdAAAtwaa2A; Fri Aug 29 13:19:36 2003 +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:19:35 -0400 +From: george young +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: sourcecode for newly release eRServer? +Message-Id: <20030829131935.474f78f2.gry@ll.mit.edu> +Reply-To: gry@ll.mit.edu +Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory +X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/509 +X-Sequence-Number: 3325 + +I was ecstatic to hear that postgresql.com is releasing the eRServer +replication project to postgresql.org as open source! I'm anxious +to get my hands on it -- actually I'm desperate: I'm under pressure to +produce a warm-failover server for our lab. I REALLY would like to +get hands on this code soon! + +Does anyone know how and when the actual release will happen? +I would be glad to be an alpha tester and promise to contribute +back bug-reports/patches. I'll take cvs or tar.gz or paper tape or +stone tablets engraved in high Elvish... + +-- George + +-- + I cannot think why the whole bed of the ocean is + not one solid mass of oysters, so prolific they seem. Ah, + I am wandering! Strange how the brain controls the brain! + -- Sherlock Holmes in "The Dying Detective" + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 14:32:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A735AD1B8CD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:32:04 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 43670-03 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:31:33 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F461D1B8B4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:31:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030829173133.QHUP10977.lakemtao03.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:31:33 -0400 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: +References: <3F4E5DA9.6396.5C8916@localhost> + <3F4F59A8.20966.434E2AD@localhost> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062178287.668.86.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:31:27 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/510 +X-Sequence-Number: 3326 + +On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 11:33, William Yu wrote: +> Shridhar Daithankar wrote: +[snip] +> > I am sure. But is 64 bit environment, Xeon is not the compitition. It's PA-RSC- +> > 8700, ultraSparcs, Power series and if possible itanium. +> +> Well, just because the Opteron is 64-bit doesn't mean it's direct +> competition for the high-end RISC chips. Yes, if you're looking at the +> discrete CPU itself, it appears they could compete -- the SpecINT scores +> places the Opteron near the top of the list. But big companies also need +> the infrastructure, management tools and top-end scalability. If you +> just have to have the million dollar machines (128x Itanium2 servers or +> whatever), AMD is nowhere close to competing unless Beowulf clusters fit +> your needs. + +With the proper motherboards and chipsets, it can definitely compete. + +What's so special about Itanic-2 that it can be engineered to be +put in 128x boxes and run VMS and high-end Unix , but Opti can't? +Nothing. If a company with enough engineering talent wants to do +it, it can happen. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"For me and windows it became a matter of easy to start with, +and becoming increasingly difficult to be productive as time +went on, and if something went wrong very difficult to fix, +compared to linux's large over head setting up and learning the +system with ease of use and the increase in productivity +becoming larger the longer I use the system." +Rohan Nicholls , The Netherlands + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 15:51:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9570AD1B8B1 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:51:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 46628-06 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:51:10 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.libertyrms.com (unknown [209.167.124.227]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF12D1B574 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:51:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from [10.1.2.130] (helo=dba2) + by mail.libertyrms.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #3 (Debian)) + id 19soKz-0007Tx-00 + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:51:09 -0400 +Received: by dba2 (Postfix, from userid 1019) + id C580ED0BD; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:51:09 -0400 (EDT) +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:51:09 -0400 +From: Andrew Sullivan +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: sourcecode for newly release eRServer? +Message-ID: <20030829185109.GD20165@libertyrms.info> +Mail-Followup-To: Andrew Sullivan , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <20030829131935.474f78f2.gry@ll.mit.edu> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <20030829131935.474f78f2.gry@ll.mit.edu> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/511 +X-Sequence-Number: 3327 + +On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 01:19:35PM -0400, george young wrote: +> Does anyone know how and when the actual release will happen? + +See the erserver project on gborg. It's out. There's a list, too; +any problems, send 'em there. + +A + +---- +Andrew Sullivan 204-4141 Yonge Street +Liberty RMS Toronto, Ontario Canada + M2P 2A8 + +1 416 646 3304 x110 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 18:00:30 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED95DD1B8A9 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:00:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 58878-10 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:59:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from host2.hostseguro.com (unknown [200.198.188.133]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 863CED1B8EE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:59:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from cpanel by host2.hostseguro.com with local (Exim 4.20) + id 19sqL1-0008EW-Np + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:59:19 -0300 +Received: from 200.180.189.138 ([200.180.189.138]) + by sistemica.info (IMP) with HTTP + for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:59:19 -0300 +Message-ID: <1062190759.3f4fbea7aae8c@sistemica.info> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:59:19 -0300 +From: Rhaoni Chiu Pereira +To: PostgreSQL Performance +Subject: SQL performance problems +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: multipart/mixed; + boundary="-MOQ10621907597c83580e1a1a0b1ef30a4fe538606e93" +User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 +X-Originating-IP: 200.180.189.138 +X-MailScanner-Information: Verificado pelo McAfee VirusScan / Scanned by + McAfee VirusScan +X-MailScanner: Nao infectado / Found to be clean +X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, + please include it with any abuse report +X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host2.hostseguro.com +X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - postgresql.org +X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] +X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sistemica.info +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/512 +X-Sequence-Number: 3328 + +This message is in MIME format. + +---MOQ10621907597c83580e1a1a0b1ef30a4fe538606e93 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit + +Hi List, + + + I still have performance problems with this sql: + +SELECT /*+ */ +ftnfco00.estado_cliente , +ftcofi00.grupo_faturamento , +SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.atual_fatura, '-', -(NVL(ftnfpr00.qtde_duzias,0)), +'+', NVL(ftnfpr00.qtde_duzias,0), 0) ) , +SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.atual_fatura, '-', -(NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0)), '+', +NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0), 0) ) , +ftprod00.tipo_cadastro||ftprod00.codigo_produto , +ftprod00.descricao_produto , +DIVIDE( SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.atual_fatura, '-', -(NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0)), +'+', NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0), 0)*ftnfpr00.margem_comercial ), + SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.atual_fatura, '-', +-(NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0)), '+', NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0), 0)) ) , +SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.nf_prodgratis, 'S', NVL(ftnfpr00.qtde_duzias,0), 0 ) ) , +SUM( DECODE( ftcofi00.nf_prodgratis, 'S', NVL(ftnfpr00.vlr_liquido,0), 0 ) ) +FROM +ftprod00 , +ftnfco00 , +ftcgma00 , +ftcgca00 , +ftspro00 , +ftclcr00 , +gsames00 , +ftcofi00 , +ftrepr00 , +gsesta00 , +ftsupv00 , +ftgrep00 , +ftclgr00 , +ftband00 , +fttcli00 , +ftredc00 , +ftnfpr00 +WHERE +ftnfco00.emp = 909 AND +ftnfpr00.fil IN ('101') AND +ftnfco00.situacao_nf = 'N' AND +TO_CHAR(ftnfco00.data_emissao,'YYYYMM') >= '200208' AND +TO_CHAR(ftnfco00.data_emissao,'YYYYMM') <= '200303' AND +ftcofi00.grupo_faturamento >= '01' AND +(ftcofi00.atual_fatura IN ('+','-') OR ftcofi00.nf_prodgratis = 'S') AND +ftcgma00.emp = ftprod00.emp AND +ftcgma00.fil = ftprod00.fil AND +ftcgma00.codigo = ftprod00.cla_marca AND +ftcgca00.emp = ftprod00.emp AND +ftcgca00.fil = ftprod00.fil AND +ftcgca00.codigo = ftprod00.cla_categoria AND +ftspro00.emp = ftprod00.emp AND +ftspro00.fil = ftprod00.fil AND +ftspro00.codigo = ftprod00.situacao AND +ftclcr00.emp = ftnfco00.emp AND +ftclcr00.fil = ftnfco00.empfil AND +ftclcr00.tipo_cadastro = ftnfco00.tipo_cad_clicre AND +ftclcr00.codigo = ftnfco00.cod_cliente AND +gsames00.ano_mes = TO_CHAR(ftnfco00.data_emissao,'YYYYMM') AND +ftcofi00.emp = ftnfco00.emp AND +ftcofi00.fil = ftnfco00.empfil AND +ftcofi00.codigo_fiscal = ftnfco00.cod_fiscal AND +ftrepr00.emp = ftnfco00.emp AND +ftrepr00.fil = ftnfco00.empfil AND +ftrepr00.codigo_repr = ftnfco00.cod_repres AND +gsesta00.estado_sigla = ftnfco00.estado_cliente AND +ftsupv00.emp = ftrepr00.emp AND +ftsupv00.fil = ftrepr00.fil AND +ftsupv00.codigo_supervisor = ftrepr00.codigo_supervisor AND +ftgrep00.emp = ftrepr00.emp AND +ftgrep00.fil = ftrepr00.fil AND +ftgrep00.codigo_grupo_rep = ftrepr00.codigo_grupo_rep AND +ftclgr00.emp = ftclcr00.emp AND +ftclgr00.fil = ftclcr00.fil AND +ftclgr00.codigo = ftclcr00.codigo_grupo_cliente AND +ftband00.emp = ftclcr00.emp AND +ftband00.fil = ftclcr00.fil AND +ftband00.codigo = ftclcr00.bandeira_cliente AND +fttcli00.emp = ftclcr00.emp AND +fttcli00.fil = ftclcr00.fil AND +fttcli00.cod_tipocliente = ftclcr00.codigo_tipo_cliente AND +ftredc00.emp = ftclcr00.emp AND +ftredc00.fil = ftclcr00.fil AND +ftredc00.tipo_contribuinte = ftclcr00.tipo_contribuinte AND +ftredc00.codigo_rede = ftclcr00.codigo_rede AND +gsesta00.estado_sigla = ftclcr00.emp_estado AND +ftnfco00.emp = ftnfpr00.emp AND +ftnfco00.fil = ftnfpr00.fil AND +ftnfco00.nota_fiscal = ftnfpr00.nota_fiscal AND +ftnfco00.serie = ftnfpr00.serie AND +ftnfco00.data_emissao = ftnfpr00.data_emissao AND +ftprod00.emp = ftnfpr00.emp AND +ftprod00.fil = ftnfpr00.empfil AND +ftprod00.tipo_cadastro = ftnfpr00.tipo_cad_promat AND +ftprod00.codigo_produto= ftnfpr00.cod_produto +GROUP BY +ftnfco00.estado_cliente , +ftcofi00.grupo_faturamento , +ftprod00.tipo_cadastro||ftprod00.codigo_produto , +ftprod00.descricao_produto + +I have created some oracle function in the database 'cuz I want the same +alication to use both Oracle or PostgreSQL without changing any source. + +atached follow tha explain analyze for this query and my postgresql.conf. + +I still searching a way to make it faster. I've tried to change a lot of +variables values like sort_mem, effective_cache_size, fsync, ... +I change the machine box from a Pentium III 1Ghz with 256 RAM to a P4 1.7 with +512 RAM DDR. + I don't know what else to do ! + +Atenciosamente, + +Rhaoni Chiu Pereira +Sist�mica Computadores + +Visite-nos na Web: http://sistemica.info +Fone/Fax : +55 51 3328 1122 + + + + + + +---MOQ10621907597c83580e1a1a0b1ef30a4fe538606e93 +Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="postgresql.conf" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 +Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="postgresql.conf" + +IwojIFBvc3RncmVTUUwgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiBmaWxlCiMgLS0tLS0tLS0t +LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0KIwojIFRoaXMgZmlsZSBjb25zaXN0cyBv +ZiBsaW5lcyBvZiB0aGUgZm9ybToKIwojICAgbmFtZSA9IHZhbHVlCiMKIyAo +VGhlICc9JyBpcyBvcHRpb25hbC4pIFdoaXRlIHNwYWNlIG1heSBiZSB1c2Vk +LiBDb21tZW50cyBhcmUgaW50cm9kdWNlZAojIHdpdGggJyMnIGFueXdoZXJl +IG9uIGEgbGluZS4gVGhlIGNvbXBsZXRlIGxpc3Qgb2Ygb3B0aW9uIG5hbWVz 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+dHVhbCB0aW1lPTAuMDMuLjAuMDMgcm93cz0xIGxvb3BzPTI0MjI2KQogICAg +ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBJbmRleCBDb25kOiAoKGZ0c3BybzAw +LmVtcCA9ICJvdXRlciIuZW1wKSBBTkQgKGZ0c3BybzAwLmZpbCA9ICJvdXRl +ciIuZmlsKSBBTkQgKGZ0c3BybzAwLmNvZGlnbyA9ICJvdXRlciIuc2l0dWFj +YW8pKQogVG90YWwgcnVudGltZTogMTEyMjg3LjEwIG1zZWMKKDY5IHJvd3Mp +Cgo= + +---MOQ10621907597c83580e1a1a0b1ef30a4fe538606e93-- + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 19:04:04 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36474D1B8B7 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:04:02 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65832-10 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:03:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEC7D1B8A4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:03:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7TM3njX027515; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:03:49 -0400 (EDT) +To: Rhaoni Chiu Pereira +Cc: PostgreSQL Performance +Subject: Re: SQL performance problems +In-reply-to: <1062190759.3f4fbea7aae8c@sistemica.info> +References: <1062190759.3f4fbea7aae8c@sistemica.info> +Comments: In-reply-to Rhaoni Chiu Pereira + message dated "Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:59:19 -0300" +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:03:48 -0400 +Message-ID: <27514.1062194628@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/513 +X-Sequence-Number: 3329 + +Rhaoni Chiu Pereira writes: +> I still have performance problems with this sql: + +It seems odd that all the joins are being done as nestloops. Perhaps +you shouldn't be forcing enable_seqscan off? + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 21:40:47 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB591D1B8B7 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:40:45 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 76762-01 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:40:18 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from water.oasis.net.au (water.oasis.net.au [210.8.139.2]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4ABD1B8A4 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:40:12 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from oasis.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by water.oasis.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id + LAA04651; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:07:43 +1000 +X-Authentication-Warning: water.oasis.net.au: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] + claimed to be oasis.net.au +From: "Rudi Starcevic" +To: "Alexander Priem" , + +Subject: Re: Indexing question +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:07:43 +1000 +Message-Id: <20030830010743.M18111@oasis.net.au> +In-Reply-To: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> +References: <012f01c36dfa$0f4a8760$b696a8c0@APR> +X-Mailer: Open WebMail +X-OriginatingIP: 203.221.163.92 +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/514 +X-Sequence-Number: 3330 + +Hi, + +> I have some tables (which can get pretty large) in which I want to +> record 'current' data as well as 'historical' data. + +Another solution can be using a trigger and function to record every +transaction to a 'logging' table. +This way you'll have one 'current' table and one 'historical' table +The 'historical' table will contain every transaction recorded from +the current table. + +Regards +Rudi. + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 23:33:24 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 452BDD1BA21 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 02:33:11 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 82197-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:33:03 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C0AD1B8EF + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:32:58 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7U2WcS11913; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:32:38 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308300232.h7U2WcS11913@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +In-Reply-To: <082e01c36dd1$3bf1f150$2800a8c0@mars> +To: Christopher Kings-Lynne +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:32:38 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Sean Chittenden , + Bill Moran , pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL106 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/515 +X-Sequence-Number: 3331 + +Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: +> > I'm likely going to make this the default for PostgreSQL on FreeBSD +> > starting with 7.4 (just posted something to -hackers about this)f. If +> > you'd like to do this in your testing, just apply the following patch. +> > +> > Right now PostgreSQL defaults to 8K blocks, but FreeBSD uses 16K +> > blocks which means that currently, reading two blocks of data in PG is +> > two read calls to the OS, one reads 16K of data off disk and returns +> > the 1st page, the 2nd call pulls the 2nd block from the FS cache. In +> > making things 16K, it avoids the need for the 2nd system call which is +> > where the performance difference is coming from, afaikt. -sc +> +> Are you _sure_ this won't cause any atomicity problems? Can FreeBSD write +> 16k as an atomic unit? + +We pre-modified page images to WAL before modifying the page. The disks +are only 512-byte blocks, so we don't rely on file system atomicity +anymore anyway. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 23:35:02 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF72D1B8EF + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 02:34:55 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 80948-07 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:34:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93818D1B8EE + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:34:43 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7U2YYf12104; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:34:34 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308300234.h7U2YYf12104@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: The results of my PostgreSQL/filesystem performance tests +In-Reply-To: <001201c36d24$3c572460$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> +To: Balazs Wellisch +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:34:34 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL106 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/516 +X-Sequence-Number: 3332 + +Balazs Wellisch wrote: +> +> Bill, +> +> Very interesting results. I'd like to command you on your honesty. +> Having started out with the intentions of proving that FreeBSD is faster +> than Linux only to find that the opposite is true must not have been +> rewarding for you. However, these unexpected results serve only to +> reinforce the integrity of your tests. + +Looking at the results, ext2 is out because it isn't crash safe, and I +have heard Reiser uses a lot more CPU to do its work. It does show +ext3 as slow, which was expected. Interesting how JFS came out, and XFS +would be interesting. And, of course, it is multiple backends that +really shows PostgreSQL off, so it could radically affect the results. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 23:45:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7874D1B8EE + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 02:44:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 83609-04 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:44:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DF9D1B8BD + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:44:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7U2i4S12751; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:44:04 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308300244.h7U2i4S12751@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +In-Reply-To: <1062058639.15800.247.camel@gibraltar.mattclark.net> +To: matt +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:44:04 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: Ron Johnson , + PgSQL Performance ML +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL106 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/517 +X-Sequence-Number: 3333 + +matt wrote: +> > Are you *sure* about that???? 3K updates/inserts per second xlates +> > to 10,800,000 per hour. That, my friend, is a WHOLE HECK OF A LOT! +> +> Yup, I know! + +Just a data point, but on my Dual Xeon 2.4Gig machine with a 10k SCSI +drive I can do 4k inserts/second if I turn fsync off. If you have a +battery-backed controller, you should be able to do the same. (You will +not need to turn fsync off --- fsync will just be fast because of the +disk drive RAM). + +Am I missing something? + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Fri Aug 29 23:49:35 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16D99D1B8FC + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 02:49:31 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 85323-03 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:49:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wolff.to (wolff.to [66.93.249.74]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D902D1B897 + for ; + Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:48:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 30723 invoked by uid 500); 30 Aug 2003 02:55:03 -0000 +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:55:03 -0500 +From: Bruno Wolff III +To: Ken Geis +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +Message-ID: <20030830025503.GA30691@wolff.to> +Mail-Followup-To: Ken Geis , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +References: <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> + <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> + <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Disposition: inline +In-Reply-To: <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> +User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/518 +X-Sequence-Number: 3334 + +I haven't come up with any great ideas for this one. It might be interesting +to compare the explain analyze output from the distinct on query with +and without seqscans enabled. + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 01:25:33 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E05D1B8B1 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 04:25:27 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 97409-02 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:25:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75035D1B8D2 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:25:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7U4PFK23474; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:25:15 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308300425.h7U4PFK23474@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: Tests +In-Reply-To: <001301c36d24$b6ab8490$0500a8c0@MOBILE01> +To: Balazs Wellisch +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:25:15 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL106 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/519 +X-Sequence-Number: 3335 + + +What I thought was really interesting in this test was a dramatic +difference for ext3 mounted "writeback" in the "h1" test, 1 minute vs. 9 +minutes compared to the default "ordered" mount option. This was the +"add new constraint" test. + +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- + +Balazs Wellisch wrote: +> +> Nicely done! +> +> Thanks, +> +> Balazs +> +> +> -----Original Message----- +> From: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org +> [mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Tomka +> Gergely +> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 5:40 AM +> To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +> Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Tests +> +> http://mail.sth.sze.hu/~hsz/sql/ +> +> New, upgraded test results. As we see, the developers works hard, and +> with +> good results. Million thanks and congratulations. +> +> Sorry *BSD-lovers, if you send a new hard drive, our tester can do bsd +> tests also. Life is hard. +> +> And last, but not least, thanks for the tests, Horv?th Szabolcs +> +> -- +> Tomka Gergely +> "S most - vajon barb?rok n?lk?l mi lesz vel?nk? +> ?k m?giscsak megold?s voltak valahogy..." +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings +> +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? +> +> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html +> + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 01:51:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EE2D1B897 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 04:51:14 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01827-01 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:50:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (unknown [203.59.48.253]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58E7D1B550 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:50:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from houston.familyhealth.com.au (chriskl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id + h7U4oWLt060453; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:50:32 +0800 (WST) + (envelope-from chriskl@familyhealth.com.au) +Received: from localhost (chriskl@localhost) + by houston.familyhealth.com.au (8.12.9/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id + h7U4oVZQ060450; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:50:32 +0800 (WST) +X-Authentication-Warning: houston.familyhealth.com.au: chriskl owned process + doing -bs +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:50:31 +0800 (WST) +From: Christopher Kings-Lynne +To: george young +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: sourcecode for newly release eRServer? +In-Reply-To: <20030829131935.474f78f2.gry@ll.mit.edu> +Message-ID: <20030830124955.I60043-100000@houston.familyhealth.com.au> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/520 +X-Sequence-Number: 3336 + +> Does anyone know how and when the actual release will happen? +> I would be glad to be an alpha tester and promise to contribute +> back bug-reports/patches. I'll take cvs or tar.gz or paper tape or +> stone tablets engraved in high Elvish... + +I think someone should call him on that :P + +Chris + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 02:05:57 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD95D1B8A4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 05:05:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 95889-07 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 02:05:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail13.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.213]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EF4DD1B550 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 02:05:19 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 22523 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2003 05:05:18 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail13.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 30 Aug 2003 05:05:18 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F50308E.6070100@speakeasy.org> +Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:05:18 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> + <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> + <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> + <20030830025503.GA30691@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030830025503.GA30691@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/521 +X-Sequence-Number: 3337 + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> I haven't come up with any great ideas for this one. It might be interesting +> to compare the explain analyze output from the distinct on query with +> and without seqscans enabled. + +Can't do that comparison. Remember, with seqscan it fails. (Oh, and +that nested loops solution I thought was fast actually took 31 minutes +versus 29 for index scan in 7.4b2.) + +I ran another query across the same data: + +select price_date, count(*) from day_ends group by price_date; + +It used a table scan and hashed aggregates, and it ran in 5.5 minutes. +Considering that, pgsql should be able to do the query that I had been +running in a little more time than that. So... + + From what I've learned, we want to convince the optimizer to use a +table scan; that's a good thing. I want it to use hashed aggregates, +but I can't convince it to (unless maybe I removed all of the +statistics.) To use group aggregates, it first sorts the results of the +table scan (all 17 million rows!) There ought to be some way to tell +pgsql not to do sorts above a certain size. In this case, if I set +enable_sort=false, it goes back to the index scan. If I then set +enable_indexscan=false, it goes back to sorting. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 02:21:55 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9682D1B52C + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 05:21:51 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 01827-05 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 02:21:21 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao03.cox.net (lakemtao03.cox.net [68.1.17.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53E8D1B93F + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 02:21:17 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao03.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030830052118.XIFK10977.lakemtao03.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:21:18 -0400 +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <200308300244.h7U2i4S12751@candle.pha.pa.us> +References: <200308300244.h7U2i4S12751@candle.pha.pa.us> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062220877.669.406.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:21:17 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/522 +X-Sequence-Number: 3338 + +On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 21:44, Bruce Momjian wrote: +> matt wrote: +> > > Are you *sure* about that???? 3K updates/inserts per second xlates +> > > to 10,800,000 per hour. That, my friend, is a WHOLE HECK OF A LOT! +> > +> > Yup, I know! +> +> Just a data point, but on my Dual Xeon 2.4Gig machine with a 10k SCSI +> drive I can do 4k inserts/second if I turn fsync off. If you have a +> battery-backed controller, you should be able to do the same. (You will +> not need to turn fsync off --- fsync will just be fast because of the +> disk drive RAM). +> +> Am I missing something? + +Is that + FOR I BETWEEN 1 AND 4000 + BEGIN + INSERT + COMMIT +or + BEGIN + INSERT + + INSERT + COMMIT; +or + COPY + +I get the impression that Matt will need to do 25,000 of these per +hour: + SELECT + IF + BEGIN + INSERT + or + UPDATE + COMMIT; + +He says his current h/w peaks at 1/10th that rate. + +My question is: is that current peak rate ("300 inserts/updates +*or* 2500 selects") based upon 1 connection, or many connections? +With 4 CPUs, and a 4 disk RAID10, I wouldn't be surprised if 4 con- +current connections gives the optimum speed. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +Great Inventors of our time: +Al Gore -> Internet +Sun Microsystems -> Clusters + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 10:45:51 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372C4D1B981 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:45:50 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 34785-01 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:45:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from www.postgresql.com (unknown [64.117.225.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B355D1B8BA + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:45:39 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail13.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.213]) + by www.postgresql.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A24CF7A60 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 04:39:14 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 18070 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2003 07:38:14 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO speakeasy.org) (kgeis@[66.93.130.165]) + (envelope-sender ) + by mail13.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted + SMTP for ; 30 Aug 2003 07:38:14 -0000 +Message-ID: <3F505465.6010504@speakeasy.org> +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:38:13 -0700 +From: Ken Geis +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; + rv:1.4) Gecko/20030612 +X-Accept-Language: en-us, en +MIME-Version: 1.0 +To: Bruno Wolff III +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +References: <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> + <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> + <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> + <20030830025503.GA30691@wolff.to> +In-Reply-To: <20030830025503.GA30691@wolff.to> +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/527 +X-Sequence-Number: 3343 + +Bruno Wolff III wrote: +> I haven't come up with any great ideas for this one. It might be interesting +> to compare the explain analyze output from the distinct on query with +> and without seqscans enabled. + +After digging through planner code, I found that bumping up the sort_mem +will make the planner prefer a full table scan and hashed aggregation. +The sort memory is where the hash table is stored. In the end, the +query runs in 4.5 minutes, which is reasonable. + +I had planned to try Manfred's index correlation patch to see if it +would give better estimates for an index scan. The index scan method +took maybe 6.5x as long, but the estimate was that it would take 1400x +as long. I think instead of trying out his patch I might actually work +on my application! + + +Ken + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 10:09:07 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A55D1B8B3 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:09:05 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 12611-09 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:08:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from jefftrout.com (h00a0cc4084e5.ne.client2.attbi.com + [24.128.241.68]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F414D1B8B4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:08:49 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 883 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2003 13:08:51 -0000 +Received: from unknown (HELO torgo) (threshar@10.10.10.10) + by 10.10.10.10 with SMTP; 30 Aug 2003 13:08:51 -0000 +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:08:51 -0400 (EDT) +From: Jeff +To: Richard Jones +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Selecting random rows efficiently +In-Reply-To: <200308301309.03412.rj@last.fm> +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/524 +X-Sequence-Number: 3340 + +On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, Richard Jones wrote: + +> Hi, +> i have a table of around 3 million rows from which i regularly (twice a second +> at the moment) need to select a random row from +> +> currently i'm doing "order by rand() limit 1" - but i suspect this is +> responsible for the large load on my db server - i guess that PG is doing far +> too much work just to pick one row. +> + +If you have an int id (aka serial) column then it is simple - just pick a +random number between 1 and currval('id_seq')... + +or offset rand() limit 1 perhaps? + +since you want random ther eis no need to bother with an order and that'll +save a sort. + +-- +Jeff Trout +http://www.jefftrout.com/ +http://www.stuarthamm.net/ + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 09:15:40 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4790FD1B8C4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:15:39 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 12408-06 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:15:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEABAD1B8C0 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:15:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from user-2040.bbd23tcl.dsl.pol.co.uk ([81.77.247.248] helo=rj) + by cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19t4dA-0001R9-OD + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:15:01 +0100 +From: Richard Jones +Reply-To: rj@last.fm +Organization: Last.FM +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Selecting random rows efficiently +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:09:03 +0000 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 +References: <200308300244.h7U2i4S12751@candle.pha.pa.us> + <1062220877.669.406.camel@haggis> +In-Reply-To: <1062220877.669.406.camel@haggis> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308301309.03412.rj@last.fm> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/523 +X-Sequence-Number: 3339 + +Hi, +i have a table of around 3 million rows from which i regularly (twice a second +at the moment) need to select a random row from + +currently i'm doing "order by rand() limit 1" - but i suspect this is +responsible for the large load on my db server - i guess that PG is doing far +too much work just to pick one row. + +one way i can think of is to read in all the primary keys from my table, and +select one of the keys at random then directly fetch that row. + +are there any other ways to do this? i need to keep the load down :) + +Thanks, +Richard + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 10:36:20 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDCBD1B8D0 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:36:18 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33237-04 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:35:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pass.bivio.com (pass.bivio.com [216.87.82.238]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F7ED1B8B5 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:35:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from LIFT.bivio.com (lift.bivio.com [216.87.82.233]) + by pass.bivio.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAB24713 + for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:35:36 -0600 +From: Rob Nagler +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:16:13 -0600 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: How to force Nested Loop plan? +X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under Emacs 21.1.1 +Organization: bivio Software Artisans, Inc. +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/526 +X-Sequence-Number: 3342 + +I'm trying to understand how I can get the planner to always do the +right thing with this query: + + EXPLAIN ANALYZE + SELECT + aa_t.min_date_time + FROM + aa_t + , bb_t + , cc_t + WHERE bb_t.bb_id = aa_t.bb_id + AND aa_t.realm_id = cc_t.realm_id + AND aa_t.server_id = 21 + ORDER BY aa_t.min_date_time desc + LIMIT 1 + OFFSET 674 + ; + +There's a extreme elbow in the performance curve around the sum of +LIMIT and OFFSET. The two plans follow. First for the query above: + + Limit (cost=21569.56..21601.56 rows=1 width=84) (actual time=59.60..59.69 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..110535.66 rows=3454 width=84) (actual time=0.19..59.20 rows=676 loops=1) + -> Nested Loop (cost=0.00..93177.46 rows=3454 width=65) (actual time=0.14..44.41 rows=676 loops=1) + -> Index Scan Backward using aa_t20 on aa_t (cost=0.00..76738.77 rows=3454 width=46) (actual time=0.10..31.30 rows=676 loops=1) + Filter: (server_id = 21::numeric) + -> Index Scan using cc_t1 on cc_t (cost=0.00..4.75 rows=1 width=19) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=1 loops=676) + Index Cond: ("outer".realm_id = cc_t.realm_id) + -> Index Scan using bb_t1 on bb_t (cost=0.00..5.01 rows=1 width=19) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=1 loops=676) + Index Cond: (bb_t.bb_id = "outer".bb_id) + Total runtime: 59.89 msec +(10 rows) + +Setting OFFSET to 675 in the above query, results in this 100 times +slower plan: + + Limit (cost=21614.48..21614.48 rows=1 width=84) (actual time=4762.39..4762.39 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=21612.79..21621.42 rows=3454 width=84) (actual time=4761.45..4761.92 rows=677 loops=1) + Sort Key: aa_t.min_date_time + -> Merge Join (cost=21139.96..21409.80 rows=3454 width=84) (actual time=4399.80..4685.24 rows=41879 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".bb_id = "inner".bb_id) + -> Sort (cost=8079.83..8184.53 rows=41879 width=19) (actual time=936.99..967.37 rows=41879 loops=1) + Sort Key: bb_t.bb_id + -> Seq Scan on bb_t (cost=0.00..4864.79 rows=41879 width=19) (actual time=0.06..729.60 rows=41879 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=13060.13..13068.76 rows=3454 width=65) (actual time=3462.76..3493.97 rows=41879 loops=1) + Sort Key: aa_t.bb_id + -> Merge Join (cost=12794.42..12857.14 rows=3454 width=65) (actual time=2923.62..3202.78 rows=41879 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".realm_id = "inner".realm_id) + -> Sort (cost=12762.78..12771.41 rows=3454 width=46) (actual time=2920.78..2950.87 rows=41879 loops=1) + Sort Key: aa_t.realm_id + -> Index Scan using aa_t5 on aa_t (cost=0.00..12559.79 rows=3454 width=46) (actual time=0.18..2589.22 rows=41879 loops=1) + Index Cond: (server_id = 21::numeric) + -> Sort (cost=31.64..32.78 rows=455 width=19) (actual time=2.54..33.12 rows=42163 loops=1) + Sort Key: cc_t.realm_id + -> Seq Scan on cc_t (cost=0.00..11.55 rows=455 width=19) (actual time=0.04..0.86 rows=455 loops=1) + Total runtime: 4792.84 msec +(20 rows) + +Twiddling effective_cache_size and random_page_cost allows for a large +LIMIT+OFFSET number but not enough. These tests are made with 400000 +effective_cache_size and random_page_cost of 4. + +I can increase the LIMIT+OFFSET elbow to 1654 by changing the +query thusly: + +< AND aa_t.server_id = 21 +--- +> AND aa_t.server_id IN (21, 0) + +The value 0 is an invalid server_id, so I know it won't be returned. +However, I've got 41K rows that could be returned by this query and +growing, and 1654 is obviously not enough. (aa is 690K rows, bb is +41K rows, and cc is 500 rows.) + +If I drop the ORDER BY, the query goes much faster, but the query is +useless without the ORDER BY. + +I've figured out that the second plan is slow, because it is writing a +huge result set to disk (+200MB). This doesn't make sense to me, +since sort_mem is 32000. + +Is there a way to tell the optimizer to use Nested Loop plan always +instead of the Merge/Join plan? Turning off enable_mergejoin is +obviously not an option. + +Thanks, +Rob + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 10:58:30 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F64D1B8AA + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:58:28 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33551-05 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:57:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BACD1B8A9 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:57:56 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id A72CB1025B; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:49:52 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [192.168.1.200] (dyn-133-83.tor.dsl.tht.net [134.22.133.83]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 7F1621025A; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:49:50 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +From: Rod Taylor +To: Ron Johnson +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <1062220877.669.406.camel@haggis> +References: <200308300244.h7U2i4S12751@candle.pha.pa.us> + <1062220877.669.406.camel@haggis> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-7QC8Y0Pdu/iRs8LzYh8l" +Message-Id: <1062251891.83670.25.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:58:12 +0000 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/528 +X-Sequence-Number: 3344 + +--=-7QC8Y0Pdu/iRs8LzYh8l +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + +> My question is: is that current peak rate ("300 inserts/updates=20 +> *or* 2500 selects") based upon 1 connection, or many connections? +> With 4 CPUs, and a 4 disk RAID10, I wouldn't be surprised if 4 con- +> current connections gives the optimum speed. + +Optimum number of active workers is probably between 10 and 16. 4 doing +math, 4 doing a dma transfer of data, and 4 to be available the instant +one of the other 8 completes. + +On FreeBSD it seems to work that way when there is a mix of activity +with the database. + +--=-7QC8Y0Pdu/iRs8LzYh8l +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/UK1z6DETLow6vwwRAviNAJwL4Ivu55vx4Ee9RAI1NAKClSJrfQCfTE84 +Lxv6fxYSRD6H029Ffmpe66c= +=Z7ne +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-7QC8Y0Pdu/iRs8LzYh8l-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 11:02:10 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8DD3D1B8CE + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:02:09 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 35235-01 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:01:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailav.tor1.inquent.com (mail.inquent.com [216.208.117.106]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A0F1D1B8AA + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:01:37 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id B54FA1025B; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:53:39 -0400 (EDT) +Received: from [192.168.1.200] (dyn-133-83.tor.dsl.tht.net [134.22.133.83]) + by mailav.tor1.inquent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 99CB41024D; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:53:36 -0400 (EDT) +Subject: Re: Selecting random rows efficiently +From: Rod Taylor +To: rj@last.fm +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <200308301425.51127.rj@last.fm> +References: + <200308301425.51127.rj@last.fm> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-c+Z2bsX6C995OKTLxuo6" +Message-Id: <1062252117.83670.29.camel@jester> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:01:58 +0000 +X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/529 +X-Sequence-Number: 3345 + +--=-c+Z2bsX6C995OKTLxuo6 +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +> i was hoping there was some trickery with sequences that would allow me t= +o=20 +> easily pick a random valid sequence number..? + +I would suggest renumbering the data. + +ALTER SEQUENCE ... RESTART WITH 1; +UPDATE table SET pkey =3D DEFAULT; + +Of course, PostgreSQL may have trouble with that update due to +evaluation of the unique constraint immediately -- so drop the primary +key first, and add it back after. + +--=-c+Z2bsX6C995OKTLxuo6 +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) + +iD8DBQA/UK5V6DETLow6vwwRAh9GAJsGVb68JRwuJLhhPzmmKi+HfUfsXwCfUpCu +yIw1ezFFDNjlz5y0WYA1pKg= +=8TSm +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-c+Z2bsX6C995OKTLxuo6-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 11:04:11 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFE1D1B8B5 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:04:10 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33566-07 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:04:01 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net (lakemtao04.cox.net [68.1.17.241]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6F5D1B8AA + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:03:59 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao04.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030830140401.CDNM419.lakemtao04.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:04:01 -0400 +Subject: Re: Selecting random rows efficiently +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <200308301309.03412.rj@last.fm> +References: <200308300244.h7U2i4S12751@candle.pha.pa.us> + <1062220877.669.406.camel@haggis> <200308301309.03412.rj@last.fm> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062252240.667.453.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:04:01 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/530 +X-Sequence-Number: 3346 + +On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 08:09, Richard Jones wrote: +> Hi, +> i have a table of around 3 million rows from which i regularly (twice a second +> at the moment) need to select a random row from +> +> currently i'm doing "order by rand() limit 1" - but i suspect this is +> responsible for the large load on my db server - i guess that PG is doing far +> too much work just to pick one row. + +What datatype is the selected by key? + +Also, where is rand() defined? Is that a UDF? + +Could it be that there is a type mismatch? + +> one way i can think of is to read in all the primary keys from my table, and +> select one of the keys at random then directly fetch that row. +> +> are there any other ways to do this? i need to keep the load down :) +> +> Thanks, +> Richard + +Are you really in Micronesia? + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment +by men of zeal, well-meaning, but without understanding." +Justice Louis Brandeis, dissenting, Olmstead v US (1928) + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 10:32:05 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C03D1B8C4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:32:04 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 33601-01 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:31:54 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D22D1B8CE + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:31:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from user-2040.bbd23tcl.dsl.pol.co.uk ([81.77.247.248] helo=rj) + by cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 19t5pU-0006Ab-WB + for pgsql-performance@postgresql.org; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:31:49 +0100 +From: Richard Jones +Reply-To: rj@last.fm +Organization: Last.FM +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Selecting random rows efficiently +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:25:51 +0000 +User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 +References: +In-Reply-To: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Disposition: inline +Message-Id: <200308301425.51127.rj@last.fm> +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/525 +X-Sequence-Number: 3341 + +On Saturday 30 August 2003 1:08 pm, you wrote: +> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, Richard Jones wrote: +> > Hi, +> > i have a table of around 3 million rows from which i regularly (twice a +> > second at the moment) need to select a random row from +> > +> > currently i'm doing "order by rand() limit 1" - but i suspect this is +> > responsible for the large load on my db server - i guess that PG is doing +> > far too much work just to pick one row. +> +> If you have an int id (aka serial) column then it is simple - just pick a +> random number between 1 and currval('id_seq')... +> +> or offset rand() limit 1 perhaps? +> +> since you want random ther eis no need to bother with an order and that'll +> save a sort. + + +Yes, the pkey is a SERIAL but the problem is that the sequence is rather +sparse + +for example, it goes something like 1 -> 5000 then 100000->100000 and then +2000000->upwards + +this is due to chunks being deleted etc.. + +if i pick a random number for the key it will not be a random enough +distribution, because the sequence is sparse.. sometimes it will pick a key +that doesnt exist. + +i'm currently reading all the keys into an array and selecting randoms from +there - but this is no good long-term as i need to refresh the array of keys +to take into account newly added rows to the table (daily) + +i was hoping there was some trickery with sequences that would allow me to +easily pick a random valid sequence number..? + +Thanks, +Rich. + + + + + + + + +> +> -- +> Jeff Trout +> http://www.jefftrout.com/ +> http://www.stuarthamm.net/ +> +> +> +> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- +> TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 11:36:08 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30E1D1B9DF + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:36:06 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37301-05 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:35:57 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E54D1BA68 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:35:55 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7UEZqjX022272; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:35:52 -0400 (EDT) +To: Ken Geis +Cc: Bruno Wolff III , + pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: bad estimates +In-reply-to: <3F50308E.6070100@speakeasy.org> +References: <20030829025109.GD4373@wolff.to> <3F4EBF7E.8020602@speakeasy.org> + <20030829030156.GF4373@wolff.to> <3F4EC1D0.5010503@speakeasy.org> + <20030829033818.GA5577@wolff.to> <3F4ECC78.7090502@speakeasy.org> + <20030829040519.GA5746@wolff.to> <3F4ED1DC.50808@speakeasy.org> + <20030829042453.GA5931@wolff.to> <3F4F0777.8090503@speakeasy.org> + <20030830025503.GA30691@wolff.to> <3F50308E.6070100@speakeasy.org> +Comments: In-reply-to Ken Geis + message dated "Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:05:18 -0700" +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:35:52 -0400 +Message-ID: <22271.1062254152@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/531 +X-Sequence-Number: 3347 + +Ken Geis writes: +> From what I've learned, we want to convince the optimizer to use a +> table scan; that's a good thing. I want it to use hashed aggregates, +> but I can't convince it to (unless maybe I removed all of the +> statistics.) + +You probably just need to increase sort_mem. Multiple aggregates take +more RAM to process in a hashtable style ... + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 11:47:56 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542ABD1B8CB + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:47:55 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37218-08 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:47:46 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714F2D1B8B2 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:47:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7UElgjX023401; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:47:42 -0400 (EDT) +To: rj@last.fm +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Selecting random rows efficiently +In-reply-to: <200308301425.51127.rj@last.fm> +References: + <200308301425.51127.rj@last.fm> +Comments: In-reply-to Richard Jones + message dated "Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:25:51 -0000" +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:47:42 -0400 +Message-ID: <23400.1062254862@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/532 +X-Sequence-Number: 3348 + +Richard Jones writes: +>>> i have a table of around 3 million rows from which i regularly (twice a +>>> second at the moment) need to select a random row from + +> i was hoping there was some trickery with sequences that would allow me to +> easily pick a random valid sequence number..? + +There is no magic bullet here, but if you expect that requirement to +persist then it is worth your trouble to expend effort on a real +solution. A real solution in my mind would look like + +1. Add a column "random_id float8 default random()". The idea here + is that you assign a random ID to each row as it is created. + +2. Add an index on the above column. + +3. Your query now looks like + + SELECT * FROM table WHERE random_id >= random() + ORDER BY random_id LIMIT 1; + +This gives you a plan on the order of + + Limit (cost=0.00..0.17 rows=1 width=8) + -> Index Scan using fooi on foo (cost=0.00..57.00 rows=334 width=8) + Filter: (random_id >= random()) + +which is fast and gives a genuinely random result row. At least up +until you have enough rows that there start being duplicate random_ids, +which AFAIK would be 2 billion rows with a decent random() +implementation. If you're concerned about that, you could periodically +re-randomize with + UPDATE table SET random_id = random(); +so that any rows that were "hidden" because they had a duplicate +random_id have another shot at being choosable. But with only a few mil +rows I don't think you need to worry. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 12:02:16 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BEAD1B8A7 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:02:15 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37496-07 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:02:05 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2626D1B8C0 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:02:04 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7UF21jX024638; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:02:01 -0400 (EDT) +To: Rob Nagler +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +In-reply-to: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Comments: In-reply-to Rob Nagler + message dated "Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:16:13 -0600" +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:02:01 -0400 +Message-ID: <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/533 +X-Sequence-Number: 3349 + +Rob Nagler writes: +> I'm trying to understand how I can get the planner to always do the +> right thing with this query: + +> SELECT +> aa_t.min_date_time +> FROM +> aa_t +> , bb_t +> , cc_t +> WHERE bb_t.bb_id = aa_t.bb_id +> AND aa_t.realm_id = cc_t.realm_id +> AND aa_t.server_id = 21 +> ORDER BY aa_t.min_date_time desc +> LIMIT 1 +> OFFSET 674 + + +> -> Index Scan Backward using aa_t20 on aa_t (cost=0.00..76738.77 rows=3454 width=46) (actual time=0.10..31.30 rows=676 loops=1) +> Filter: (server_id = 21::numeric) + +The reason the planner does not much like this plan is that it's +estimating that quite a lot of rows will have to be hit in min_date_time +order before it finds enough rows with server_id = 21. Thus the high +cost estimate for the above step. + +I suspect that the reason you like this plan is that there's actually +substantial correlation between server_id and min_date_time, such that +the required rows are found quickly. Before trying to force the planner +into what you consider an optimal plan, you had better ask yourself +whether you can expect that correlation to hold up in the future. +If not, your plan could become pessimal pretty quickly. + +I'd suggest creating a double-column index: + + create index aa_ti on aa_t(server_id, min_date_time); + +and altering the query to read + + ORDER BY aa_t.server_id DESC, aa_t.min_date_time DESC + +(you need this kluge to make sure the planner recognizes that the new +index matches the ORDER BY request). Then you should get a plan with +a much smaller cost coefficient for this step. + + regards, tom lane + +PS: does server_id really need to be NUMERIC? Why not integer, or at +worst bigint? + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 12:14:18 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F63D1B8CB + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:14:17 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 37422-10 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:14:07 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C03E2D1B8C4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:14:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7UFE5jX025758; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:14:05 -0400 (EDT) +To: rj@last.fm +Cc: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: Selecting random rows efficiently +In-reply-to: <23400.1062254862@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: + <200308301425.51127.rj@last.fm> <23400.1062254862@sss.pgh.pa.us> +Comments: In-reply-to Tom Lane + message dated "Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:47:42 -0400" +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:14:04 -0400 +Message-ID: <25757.1062256444@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/534 +X-Sequence-Number: 3350 + +I said: +> 3. Your query now looks like +> SELECT * FROM table WHERE random_id >= random() +> ORDER BY random_id LIMIT 1; + +Correction: the above won't give quite the right query because random() +is marked as a volatile function. You can hide the random() call inside +a user-defined function that you (misleadingly) mark stable, or you can +just stick it into a sub-select: + +regression=# explain select * from foo WHERE random_id >= (select random()) +regression-# ORDER BY random_id LIMIT 1; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Limit (cost=0.01..0.15 rows=1 width=8) + InitPlan + -> Result (cost=0.00..0.01 rows=1 width=0) + -> Index Scan using fooi on foo (cost=0.00..45.50 rows=334 width=8) + Index Cond: (random_id >= $0) +(5 rows) + +This technique is probably safer against future planner changes, +however: + +regression=# create function oneshot_random() returns float8 as +regression-# 'select random()' language sql stable; +CREATE FUNCTION +regression=# explain select * from foo WHERE random_id >= oneshot_random() +regression-# ORDER BY random_id LIMIT 1; + QUERY PLAN +------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Limit (cost=0.00..0.14 rows=1 width=8) + -> Index Scan using fooi on foo (cost=0.00..46.33 rows=334 width=8) + Index Cond: (random_id >= oneshot_random()) +(3 rows) + +The point here is that an indexscan boundary condition has to use stable +or immutable functions. By marking oneshot_random() stable, you +essentially say that it's okay to evaluate it only once per query, +rather than once at each row. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 12:37:23 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30FE0D1B8CB + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:37:22 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 40687-06 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:36:51 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 02411D1B8B5 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:36:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 18513 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2003 15:36:11 -0000 +Received: from host213-123-217-162.in-addr.btopenworld.com (HELO solent) + (213.123.217.162) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2003 15:36:11 -0000 +From: "Matt Clark" +To: "Bruce Momjian" +Cc: "Ron Johnson" , + "PgSQL Performance ML" +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:36:20 +0100 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="US-ASCII" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) +In-Reply-To: <200308300244.h7U2i4S12751@candle.pha.pa.us> +Importance: Normal +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/536 +X-Sequence-Number: 3352 + +> Just a data point, but on my Dual Xeon 2.4Gig machine with a 10k SCSI +> drive I can do 4k inserts/second if I turn fsync off. If you have a +> battery-backed controller, you should be able to do the same. (You will +> not need to turn fsync off --- fsync will just be fast because of the +> disk drive RAM). +> +> Am I missing something? + +I think Ron asked this, but I will too, is that 4k inserts in one transaction or 4k transactions each with one insert? + +fsync is very much faster (as are all random writes) with the write-back cache, but I'd hazard a guess that it's still not nearly as +fast as turning fsync off altogether. I'll do a test perhaps... + + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 12:37:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5F82D1B8D9 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:37:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 41294-04 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:36:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from wight.ymogen.net (unknown [217.27.240.153]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F2BF2D1B8B4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:36:40 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (qmail 18512 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2003 15:36:11 -0000 +Received: from host213-123-217-162.in-addr.btopenworld.com (HELO solent) + (213.123.217.162) + by wight.ymogen.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2003 15:36:11 -0000 +From: "Matt Clark" +To: "Ron Johnson" , + "PgSQL Performance ML" +Subject: Re: Hardware recommendations to scale to silly load +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:36:20 +0100 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) +In-Reply-To: <1062220877.669.406.camel@haggis> +Importance: Normal +X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/535 +X-Sequence-Number: 3351 + +> SELECT +> IF +> BEGIN +> INSERT +> or +> UPDATE +> COMMIT; +> +> He says his current h/w peaks at 1/10th that rate. +> +> My question is: is that current peak rate ("300 inserts/updates +> *or* 2500 selects") based upon 1 connection, or many connections? +> With 4 CPUs, and a 4 disk RAID10, I wouldn't be surprised if 4 con- +> current connections gives the optimum speed. + +Well it's more like each user interaction looks like: + + SELECT + SELECT + SELECT + SELECT + SELECT + SELECT + INSERT + SELECT + SELECT + SELECT + SELECT + INSERT + SELECT + SELECT + SELECT + UPDATE + SELECT + SELECT + UPDATE + SELECT + +And concurrency is very high, because it's a web app, and each httpd has one connection to PG, and there can be hundreds of active +httpd processes. Some kind of connection pooling scheme might be in order when there are that many active clients. Any views? + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 12:50:26 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D88BD1B8C4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:50:26 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 42667-05 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:50:15 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pass.bivio.com (locker.bivio.com [216.87.82.238]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61296D1B8D2 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:50:11 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from LIFT.bivio.com (lift.bivio.com [216.87.82.233]) + by pass.bivio.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAB24961; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:50:10 -0600 +From: Rob Nagler +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:47:02 -0600 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +In-Reply-To: <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> +X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under Emacs 21.1.1 +Organization: bivio Software Artisans, Inc. +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/537 +X-Sequence-Number: 3353 + +Tom Lane writes: +> The reason the planner does not much like this plan is that it's +> estimating that quite a lot of rows will have to be hit in min_date_time +> order before it finds enough rows with server_id = 21. Thus the high +> cost estimate for the above step. + +Thanks for the speedy and useful reply! More questions follow. :) + +Very interesting. How does it know "quite a lot"? Is there something +I can do to get the planner to analyze the data better? + +> I suspect that the reason you like this plan is that there's actually +> substantial correlation between server_id and min_date_time, such that +> the required rows are found quickly. Before trying to force the planner +> into what you consider an optimal plan, you had better ask yourself +> whether you can expect that correlation to hold up in the future. +> If not, your plan could become pessimal pretty quickly. + +The correlation holds. min_date_time increases over time as records +are inserted. server_id is uniformly distributed over time. There's +no randomness. There is at least one 21 record for every value of +min_date_time. 21 is a special server_id containing aggregate +(denormalized) data for the other servers. I thought about putting it +in a separate table, but this would complicate the code as the data is +identical to the non-aggregated case. + +Do you have any suggestions for organizing the data/query now that you +know this? + +> I'd suggest creating a double-column index: + +Thanks. I'll try this. + +I'm a very big fan of declarative programming. However, there's a +danger in declarative programming when the interperter isn't smart +enough. When I add this index, I will slow down inserts (about +20K/day) and increase data size (this is the second largest table in +the database). Moreover, if the planner is improved, I've should fix +my code, delete the index, etc. + +Is there a way of giving the planner direct hints as in Oracle? They +can be ignored when the optimizer is improved, just as "register" is +ignored by C compilers nowadays. + +Adding the extra index and ORDER BY is also not easy in our case. The +query is dynamically generated. I can force the query ORDER BY to be +whatever I want, but I would lose the ability to do interesting +things, like the automatic generation of ORDER BY when someone clicks +on a column header in the application. Indeed there are times when +people want to sort on other columns in the query. I reduced the +problem to the salient details for my post to this board. What if the +ORDER BY was: + + ORDER BY aa_t.server_id DESC, cc_t.name ASC + +Would the planner do the right thing? + +> PS: does server_id really need to be NUMERIC? Why not integer, or at +> worst bigint? + +It is a NUMERIC(18). It could be a bigint. What would be the change +in performance of this query if we changed it to bigint? + +BTW, my customer is probably going to be switching to Oracle. This +particular query has been one of the reasons. Maybe this change will +help us stay with Postgres. + +Thanks, +Rob + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 13:19:02 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A72D1B8A7 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:19:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 44997-06 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:18:29 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCCB5D1B8B2 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:18:28 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030830161828.GMMG11854.lakemtao02.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:18:28 -0400 +Subject: Re: Selecting random rows efficiently +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <1062252117.83670.29.camel@jester> +References: + <200308301425.51127.rj@last.fm> <1062252117.83670.29.camel@jester> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062260304.669.566.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:18:25 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/538 +X-Sequence-Number: 3354 + +On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 09:01, Rod Taylor wrote: +> > i was hoping there was some trickery with sequences that would allow me to +> > easily pick a random valid sequence number..? +> +> I would suggest renumbering the data. +> +> ALTER SEQUENCE ... RESTART WITH 1; +> UPDATE table SET pkey = DEFAULT; +> +> Of course, PostgreSQL may have trouble with that update due to +> evaluation of the unique constraint immediately -- so drop the primary +> key first, and add it back after. + +And if there are child tables, they'd all have to be updated, too. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Whatever may be the moral ambiguities of the so-called +demoratic nations and however serious may be their failure to +conform perfectly to their democratic ideals, it is sheer moral +perversity to equate the inconsistencies of a democratic +civilization with the brutalities which modern tyrannical states +practice." +Reinhold Nieburhr, ca. 1940 + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 13:20:20 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC0ED1B8F5 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:20:19 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 45340-03 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:19:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7277FD1B8B4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:19:47 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7UGJhjX002076; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:19:45 -0400 (EDT) +To: Rob Nagler +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +In-reply-to: <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Comments: In-reply-to Rob Nagler + message dated "Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:47:02 -0600" +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:19:42 -0400 +Message-ID: <2074.1062260382@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/539 +X-Sequence-Number: 3355 + +Rob Nagler writes: +> Tom Lane writes: +>> The reason the planner does not much like this plan is that it's +>> estimating that quite a lot of rows will have to be hit in min_date_time +>> order before it finds enough rows with server_id = 21. + +> Very interesting. How does it know "quite a lot"? + +It doesn't, because it has no cross-column-correlation stats. The +default assumption is that there's no correlation. + +> server_id is uniformly distributed over time. There's +> no randomness. There is at least one 21 record for every value of +> min_date_time. + +That doesn't really tell me anything. What's the proportion of 21 +records out of the total table? + +> 21 is a special server_id containing aggregate +> (denormalized) data for the other servers. I thought about putting it +> in a separate table, but this would complicate the code as the data is +> identical to the non-aggregated case. + +Hm. If most of your queries are for id 21, an alternative approach is +to create single-column partial indexes: + + create index fooi on foo (min_date_time) where server_id = 21; + +This reduces the cost of maintaining the index but also makes it useful +*only* for id = 21 queries. On the plus side, you don't need to hack +the ORDER BY clause to get your queries to use it. Your choice... + +> What if the ORDER BY was: +> ORDER BY aa_t.server_id DESC, cc_t.name ASC +> Would the planner do the right thing? + +What do you consider the right thing? cc_t.name doesn't seem connected +to this table at all --- or did I miss something? + +> It is a NUMERIC(18). It could be a bigint. What would be the change +> in performance of this query if we changed it to bigint? + +Hard to say. I can tell you that the raw comparison operator is a lot +quicker for bigint than for numeric, but I don't have any hard numbers +about what percentage of total CPU time is involved. You'd pretty much +have to try it for yourself to see what the effect is in your queries. + +If you've been generically using NUMERIC(n) where you could be using +integer or bigint, then I think you've probably paid a high price +without knowing it. I don't know what Oracle's cost tradeoffs are for +these datatypes, but I can tell you that Postgres's integer types are +way faster (and more compact) than our NUMERIC. + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 13:34:14 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94AF2D1B8D3 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:34:12 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 46881-02 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:33:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao02.cox.net (lakemtao02.cox.net [68.1.17.243]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB4CD1B8C5 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:33:41 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao02.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030830163341.GQUJ11854.lakemtao02.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:33:41 -0400 +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062261220.669.576.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:33:40 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/540 +X-Sequence-Number: 3356 + +On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 10:47, Rob Nagler wrote: +> Tom Lane writes: +[snip] +> enough. When I add this index, I will slow down inserts (about +> 20K/day) and increase data size (this is the second largest table in +[snip] + +Since I gather that this is a web-site, can we presume that they +are clumped into an 8 hour range? 20,000/8 = 2,500/hour, which +is 41.67/minute. If you can't do .69 inserts/second, something +is wrong, and it ain't hardware, and it ain't Postgresql... + +> > PS: does server_id really need to be NUMERIC? Why not integer, or at +> > worst bigint? +> +> It is a NUMERIC(18). It could be a bigint. What would be the change +> in performance of this query if we changed it to bigint? + +http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/static/datatype.html#DATATYPE-INT +http://www.postgresql.org/docs/7.3/static/datatype.html#DATATYPE-NUMERIC-DECIMAL + +Scalars are faster than arbitrary precision types. Small (32 bit) +scalars are faster than bit (64 bit) scalars on x86 h/w. + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +"Adventure is a sign of incompetence" +Stephanson, great polar explorer + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 13:48:19 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F067D1B8C4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:48:18 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 48654-01 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:48:08 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from candle.pha.pa.us (momjian.navpoint.com [207.106.42.251]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C0AD1B8B4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:48:06 -0300 (ADT) +Received: (from pgman@localhost) + by candle.pha.pa.us (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h7UGlrQ13504; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:47:53 -0400 (EDT) +From: Bruce Momjian +Message-Id: <200308301647.h7UGlrQ13504@candle.pha.pa.us> +Subject: Re: PostgreSQL HDD Grow capacity +In-Reply-To: <200308291044.40700.kopra@wepeka-it.com> +To: koprahome@telkom.net +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:47:53 -0400 (EDT) +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL106 (25)] +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/541 +X-Sequence-Number: 3357 + +Eko Pranoto wrote: +> How To calcute PostgreSQL HDD grow capacity for every byte data, start from +> installation initialize. + +First, see the FAQ item about calculating row size. Second, see the +chapter in the administration manual talking about computing disk space. + +-- + Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us + pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 14:43:54 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40315D1B574 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:43:54 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 48057-06 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:43:24 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E8ED1B8B5 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:43:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from russell ([81.99.189.14]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com + (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with SMTP + id <20030830174322.DXSD17074.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@russell> + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:43:22 +0100 +From: "Russell Garrett" +To: "PgSQL Performance ML" +Subject: Re: Selecting random rows efficiently +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:43:22 +0100 +Message-ID: +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Priority: 3 (Normal) +X-MSMail-Priority: Normal +X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) +X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 +In-Reply-To: <1062260304.669.566.camel@haggis> +Importance: Normal +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/542 +X-Sequence-Number: 3358 + +Considering that we'd have to index the random field too, it'd be neater in +the long term to re-number the primary key. Although, being a primary key, +that's foreign-keyed from absolutely everywhere, so that'd probably take an +amusingly long time. + +...and no we're not from Micronesia, we're from ever so slightly less exotic +London. Though Micronesia might be nice... + +Russ (also from last.fm but without the fancy address) + +pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org wrote: +> On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 09:01, Rod Taylor wrote: +>>> i was hoping there was some trickery with sequences that would +>>> allow me to easily pick a random valid sequence number..? +>> +>> I would suggest renumbering the data. +>> +>> ALTER SEQUENCE ... RESTART WITH 1; +>> UPDATE table SET pkey = DEFAULT; +>> +>> Of course, PostgreSQL may have trouble with that update due to +>> evaluation of the unique constraint immediately -- so drop the +>> primary key first, and add it back after. +> +> And if there are child tables, they'd all have to be updated, too. + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 17:42:48 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47AD1D1B561 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:42:47 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 62766-01 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:42:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pass.bivio.com (pass.bivio.com [216.87.82.238]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FADED1B8A4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:42:32 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from LIFT.bivio.com (lift.bivio.com [216.87.82.233]) + by pass.bivio.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAB25434; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:42:33 -0600 +From: Rob Nagler +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <16209.3105.94000.204936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:42:09 -0600 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +In-Reply-To: <2074.1062260382@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <2074.1062260382@sss.pgh.pa.us> +X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under Emacs 21.1.1 +Organization: bivio Software Artisans, Inc. +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/543 +X-Sequence-Number: 3359 + +Tom Lane writes: +> That doesn't really tell me anything. What's the proportion of 21 +> records out of the total table? + +Currently we have about 15 servers so 6% of the data is uniformly +distributed with the value 21. + +> create index fooi on foo (min_date_time) where server_id = 21; +> +> This reduces the cost of maintaining the index but also makes it useful +> *only* for id = 21 queries. On the plus side, you don't need to hack +> the ORDER BY clause to get your queries to use it. Your choice... + +I like that better, thanks. After testing I found the elbow was at +1610 records with this index, but this clause still yields better +performance at 1654 records: + + AND aa_t.server_id IN (21, 0) + +This is independent of the existence of the new index. + +Interestingly, when I drop the aa_t5 index, the elbow goes up to +1729 with the IN (21, 0) query. + +You might ask: why do I have an index at all? That's from my Oracle +experience. server_id is a foreign key into the server table. If you +don't create an index on a foreign key, Oracle locks the entire +foreign table when you modify the local table. With an index, it only +locks a row in the foreign table. This causes a major bottleneck, but +in this case the server table is static. Therefore, the index is +superfluous, and since there are only 16 values, the index should be +bitmap index (Oracle speak, sorry, don't know the PG term). Dropping +the index probably won't change any of the other queries, I think. + +Without the aa_t5 index and after the elbow, the Index Scan is +replaced with a Seq Scan, which is just about as fast, but still 50 +times slower than before the elbow: + + Limit (cost=34071.30..34071.31 rows=1 width=84) (actual time=5111.14..5111.15 rows=1 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=34066.98..34075.61 rows=3454 width=84) (actual time=5108.74..5109.96 rows=1733 loops=1) + Sort Key: aa_t.min_date_time + -> Merge Join (cost=33801.26..33863.98 rows=3454 width=84) (actual time=4868.62..5020.58 rows=41879 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".realm_id = "inner".realm_id) + -> Sort (cost=31.64..32.78 rows=455 width=19) (actual time=3.06..3.38 rows=415 loops=1) + Sort Key: cc_t.realm_id + -> Seq Scan on cc_t (cost=0.00..11.55 rows=455 width=19) (actual time=0.05..0.99 rows=455 loops=1) + -> Sort (cost=33769.63..33778.26 rows=3454 width=65) (actual time=4865.20..4895.28 rows=41879 loops=1) + Sort Key: aa_t.realm_id + -> Merge Join (cost=33296.79..33566.63 rows=3454 width=65) (actual time=4232.52..4541.24 rows=41879 loops=1) + Merge Cond: ("outer".bb_id = "inner".bb_id) + -> Sort (cost=25216.97..25225.60 rows=3454 width=46) (actual time=3213.53..3243.65 rows=41879 loops=1) + Sort Key: aa_t.bb_id + -> Seq Scan on aa_t (cost=0.00..25013.97 rows=3454 width=46) (actual time=20.07..2986.11 rows=41879 loops=1) + Filter: (server_id = 21::numeric) + -> Sort (cost=8079.83..8184.53 rows=41879 width=19) (actual time=1018.95..1049.37 rows=41879 loops=1) + Sort Key: bb_t.bb_id + -> Seq Scan on bb_t (cost=0.00..4864.79 rows=41879 width=19) (actual time=0.04..810.88 rows=41879 loops=1) + Total runtime: 5141.22 msec + +What I'm not sure is why does it decide to switch modes so "early", +i.e., at about 5% of the table size or less? It seems that an Index +Scan would give better mileage than a Seq Scan for possibly up to 50% +of the table in this case. I clearly don't understand the internals, +but the elbow seems rather sharp to me. + +> > What if the ORDER BY was: +> > ORDER BY aa_t.server_id DESC, cc_t.name ASC +> > Would the planner do the right thing? +> +> What do you consider the right thing? +> cc_t.name doesn't seem connected +> to this table at all --- or did I miss something? + +Sorry, this is a red herring. Please ignore. + +> If you've been generically using NUMERIC(n) where you could be using +> integer or bigint, then I think you've probably paid a high price +> without knowing it. I don't know what Oracle's cost tradeoffs are for +> these datatypes, but I can tell you that Postgres's integer types are +> way faster (and more compact) than our NUMERIC. + +I'll try to figure out what the price is in our case. I think Oracle +does a pretty good job on data compression for NUMERIC. I haven't +dealt with a large Postgres database until this one, so I guess it's +time to learn. :) + +We actually have been quite pleased with Postgres's performance +without paying much attention to it before this. When we first set up +Oracle, we got into all of its parameters pretty heavily. With +Postgres, we just tried it and it worked. This is the first query +where we ran out of ideas to try. + +BTW, everybody's help on this list is fantastic. Usually, I can find +the answer to my question (and have been doing so for 3 years) on this +list without asking. + +Thanks, +Rob + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 18:28:53 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E66DD1B8AA + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:28:52 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 65360-01 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:28:22 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lakemtao01.cox.net (lakemtao01.cox.net [68.1.17.244]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D76D1B524 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:28:20 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from lhosts ([68.11.66.83]) by lakemtao01.cox.net + (InterMail vM.5.01.06.04 201-253-122-130-104-20030726) with ESMTP + id <20030830212822.RZMB5378.lakemtao01.cox.net@lhosts> + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:28:22 -0400 +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +From: Ron Johnson +To: PgSQL Performance ML +In-Reply-To: <16209.3105.94000.204936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <2074.1062260382@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16209.3105.94000.204936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Content-Type: text/plain +Message-Id: <1062278901.669.597.camel@haggis> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:28:22 -0500 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/544 +X-Sequence-Number: 3360 + +On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 15:42, Rob Nagler wrote: +[snip] +> We actually have been quite pleased with Postgres's performance +> without paying much attention to it before this. When we first set up +> Oracle, we got into all of its parameters pretty heavily. With +> Postgres, we just tried it and it worked. This is the first query +> where we ran out of ideas to try. + +Dumb question: given your out-of-the-box satisfaction, could it be +that postgresql.conf hasn't been tweaked? + +-- +----------------------------------------------------------------- +Ron Johnson, Jr. ron.l.johnson@cox.net +Jefferson, LA USA + +484,246 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4 persons +per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'. +That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri. +Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom. + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 19:11:17 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E49D1B574 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 22:11:14 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 66974-03 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:10:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14AC6D1B8A4 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:10:42 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7UMAgjX004041; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:10:42 -0400 (EDT) +To: Rob Nagler +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +In-reply-to: <16209.3105.94000.204936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <2074.1062260382@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16209.3105.94000.204936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Comments: In-reply-to Rob Nagler + message dated "Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:42:09 -0600" +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:10:41 -0400 +Message-ID: <4040.1062281441@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/545 +X-Sequence-Number: 3361 + +Rob Nagler writes: +> What I'm not sure is why does it decide to switch modes so "early", +> i.e., at about 5% of the table size or less? + +Given the default cost parameters and cost models, that's the correct +place to switch. Since the estimate evidently doesn't match reality +for your case, you might want to play with the parameters. Reducing +random_page_cost would be the first thing I'd try. Some people think +that increasing effective_cache_size is a good idea too, though I feel +that that has only marginal impact on the planner's choices. + +Keep in mind though that you seem to be experimenting with a +fully-cached database; you may find that the planner's beliefs more +nearly approach reality when actual I/O has to occur. + +Another thing I'd be interested to know about is how closely the +physical order of the table entries correlates with min_date_time. +A high correlation reduces the actual cost of the indexscan (since +visiting the rows in index order becomes less of a random-access +proposition). We are aware that the planner doesn't model this effect +very well at present ... + + regards, tom lane + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 21:09:59 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CEDD1B56B + for ; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:09:56 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 71365-06 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:09:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pass.bivio.com (locker.bivio.com [216.87.82.238]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47FAAD1B899 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:09:36 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from LIFT.bivio.com (lift.bivio.com [216.87.82.233]) + by pass.bivio.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAB25632 + for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:09:39 -0600 +From: Rob Nagler +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <16209.14949.507000.384083@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:59:33 -0600 +To: PgSQL Performance ML +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +In-Reply-To: <1062278901.669.597.camel@haggis> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <2074.1062260382@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16209.3105.94000.204936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <1062278901.669.597.camel@haggis> +X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under Emacs 21.1.1 +Organization: bivio Software Artisans, Inc. +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/546 +X-Sequence-Number: 3362 + +Ron Johnson writes: +> Dumb question: given your out-of-the-box satisfaction, could it be +> that postgresql.conf hasn't been tweaked? + +Here are the modified values: + +shared_buffers = 8000 +wal_buffers = 80 +sort_mem = 32000 +effective_cache_size = 400000 +random_page_cost = 4 +autocommit = false +timezone = UTC + +I had run a test with effective_cache_size to high value to see what +would happen. Also adjusted random_page_cost: + +random_page_cost effective_cache_size elbow + 4 40000 675 + .5 40000 592 + .1 40000 392 + 4 1000 30 + +My conclusion is that random_page_cost should be left alone and +effective_cache_size higher is better. + +BTW, the hardware is 2 x 2.4ghz Xeon, 1.2GB, SCSI (linux software +raid) with 10K disks. This is close to the production box. Although +we are planning on adding more memory to production. + +Rob + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sat Aug 30 21:23:46 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0C0D1B561 + for ; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:23:45 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 73817-04 + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:23:38 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from pass.bivio.com (locker.bivio.com [216.87.82.238]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F063D1B56B + for ; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:23:34 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from LIFT.bivio.com (lift.bivio.com [216.87.82.233]) + by pass.bivio.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAB25639; + Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:23:37 -0600 +From: Rob Nagler +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +Message-ID: <16209.15488.141000.729032@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:08:32 -0600 +To: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +In-Reply-To: <4040.1062281441@sss.pgh.pa.us> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <2074.1062260382@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16209.3105.94000.204936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <4040.1062281441@sss.pgh.pa.us> +X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under Emacs 21.1.1 +Organization: bivio Software Artisans, Inc. +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/547 +X-Sequence-Number: 3363 + +Tom Lane writes: +> Keep in mind though that you seem to be experimenting with a +> fully-cached database; you may find that the planner's beliefs more +> nearly approach reality when actual I/O has to occur. + +My hope is that the entire database should fit in memory. This may +not be in the case right now with only 1GB, but it should be close. +The pgsql/data/base/NNN directory is about 1.5GB on production. I'm +pretty sure with constant vacuuming, we could keep that size down. +A pgdump is about 60MB now, growing at about .5MB a day. + +> Another thing I'd be interested to know about is how closely the +> physical order of the table entries correlates with min_date_time. + +Probably "pretty close". The primary key of aa_t is (bb_id, +server_id), and bb_id is a sequence. aa_t is updated heavily on +production, but these tests are on a fresh import so vacuuming and +index order is not a factor. We do a reload every now and then to +improve performance on production. min_date_time is highly correlated +with bb_id, because both are increasing constantly. server_id is one +of 16 values. + +> A high correlation reduces the actual cost of the indexscan (since +> visiting the rows in index order becomes less of a random-access +> proposition). We are aware that the planner doesn't model this effect +> very well at present ... + +Oracle's optimizer is lacking here, too. The best optimizer I've seen +was at Tandem, and even then hints were required. + +Are there plans for explicit hints to the planner? + +Thanks, +Rob + + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 31 19:16:58 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3042ED1B8C0 + for ; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:16:57 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 74042-06 + for ; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:16:48 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from mailer.acaso.net (209.Red-213-97-17.pooles.rima-tde.net + [213.97.17.209]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B54D1B56B + for ; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:16:44 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from 6-allhosts (unknown [192.168.0.4]) + by mailer.acaso.net (Postfix) with ESMTP + id 33BD61014D; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 00:16:44 +0200 (CEST) +Subject: Re: SQL performance problems +From: Alberto Caso +To: Rhaoni Chiu Pereira +Cc: PostgreSQL Performance +In-Reply-To: <1062190759.3f4fbea7aae8c@sistemica.info> +References: <1062190759.3f4fbea7aae8c@sistemica.info> +Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; + protocol="application/pgp-signature"; + boundary="=-G8WSUG5iU/cnyxZPQWOJ" +Organization: Adaptia Soluciones Integrales +Message-Id: <1062368198.1052.34.camel@localhost> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 +Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 00:16:38 +0200 +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/548 +X-Sequence-Number: 3364 + +--=-G8WSUG5iU/cnyxZPQWOJ +Content-Type: text/plain +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + + + Hi, + + Estimated and actual rows differ a lot. Did you a VACUUM ANALYZE so +that the optimizer could update its statistics? + + Also it would be great if you could provide more information, as your +PostgreSQL version, your table and indexes descriptions, etc. Have a +look at:=20 + +http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/SlowQueryPostingGuidelines + + Please excuse me if you have already done it. I had a quick look at the +list's archives and didn't found it in your prior posts. + + Regards, +--=20 +Alberto Caso Palomino +Adaptia Soluciones Integrales +http://www.adaptia.net +alberto.caso@adaptia.net + + + +--=-G8WSUG5iU/cnyxZPQWOJ +Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc +Content-Description: Esta parte del mensaje =?ISO-8859-1?Q?est=E1?= firmada + digitalmente + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) + +iD8DBQA/UnPF/tUyzpgV/S0RAuDDAKDKxaIxIcMQuPbN8sK2oUjL+n5VbgCgzxsc +32d+0QS50it9fBRp84TOgGg= +=PABT +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- + +--=-G8WSUG5iU/cnyxZPQWOJ-- + + +From pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org Sun Aug 31 20:13:03 2003 +X-Original-To: pgsql-performance-postgresql.org@localhost.postgresql.org +Received: from localhost (unknown [64.117.224.130]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1647BD1B4E2 + for ; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:13:01 +0000 (GMT) +Received: from svr1.postgresql.org ([64.117.224.193]) + by localhost (neptune.hub.org [64.117.224.130]) (amavisd-new, + port 10024) with ESMTP id 74246-10 + for ; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:12:53 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss.pgh.pa.us (unknown [192.204.191.242]) + by svr1.postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC6CD1B8BA + for ; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:12:50 -0300 (ADT) +Received: from sss2.sss.pgh.pa.us (tgl@localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by sss.pgh.pa.us (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7VNCojX029707; + Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:12:50 -0400 (EDT) +To: Rob Nagler +Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org +Subject: Re: How to force Nested Loop plan? +In-reply-to: <16209.15488.141000.729032@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +References: <16208.41885.960000.12706@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <24637.1062255721@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16208.50934.351000.90704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <2074.1062260382@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16209.3105.94000.204936@gargle.gargle.HOWL> + <4040.1062281441@sss.pgh.pa.us> + <16209.15488.141000.729032@gargle.gargle.HOWL> +Comments: In-reply-to Rob Nagler + message dated "Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:08:32 -0600" +Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:12:50 -0400 +Message-ID: <29706.1062371570@sss.pgh.pa.us> +From: Tom Lane +X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at postgresql.org +X-Archive-Number: 200308/549 +X-Sequence-Number: 3365 + +Rob Nagler writes: +> Are there plans for explicit hints to the planner? + +Personally, I'm philosophically opposed to planner hints; see previous +discussions in the archives. + + regards, tom lane +