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and let 's be clear . No one in this room knows when the shutdown is going to end . | and let 's be clear . No one in this room knows when the shutdown is going to end . |
Let 's just fair enough . Let 's just knock that right out there is no clear path and I | Let 's just fair enough . Let 's just knock that right out there is no clear path and I |
think part of the reason is because this is no longer purely pragmatic or a practical politics . This is | think part of the reason is because this is no longer purely pragmatic or a practical politics . This is |
a moral issue , I mean I think the shutdown is kind of a symptom of something larger . The | a moral issue , I mean I think the shutdown is kind of a symptom of something larger . The |
wall is a campaign promise the President made to play on something very deeply held that his political base feels | wall is a campaign promise the President made to play on something very deeply held that his political base feels |
. And if you want to look for an image that actually speak to this speaks to this , it | . And if you want to look for an image that actually speak to this speaks to this , it |
's probably those protesters who were on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial . The Native American man who was | 's probably those protesters who were on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial . The Native American man who was |
beating the drum Nathan Phillips and those kids and the Make America Great Again hats . So we 're kind | beating the drum Nathan Phillips and those kids and the Make America Great Again hats . So we 're kind |
of smirking at him and kind of looking down their noses at him . To me , that is the | of smirking at him and kind of looking down their noses at him . To me , that is the |
real image that is the real emblem of this , this is fair enough . xenophobia for many Americans , | real image that is the real emblem of this , this is | fair enough . | xenophobia for many Americans , |
this is about race , this is about rhetoric that has reached a point where it has ground the government | this is about race , this is about rhetoric that has reached a point where it has ground the government |
to a halt . Nancy Pelosi said a wall is an immorality . So how do you make a political | to a halt . Nancy Pelosi said a wall is an immorality . So how do you make a political |
solution to a moral quandary . It seems like the entire political establishment has kind of painted itself into a | solution to a moral quandary . It seems like the entire political establishment has kind of painted itself into a |
place where the practical nature of politics could solve this , but for many Americans . For many people of | place where the practical nature of politics could solve this , but for many Americans . For many people of |
color , and I 'm not speaking for all people of color for the Rashida Tlaib in this country for | color , and I 'm not speaking for all people of color for the Rashida Tlaib in this country for |
the Alexandria Ocasio Cortez 's in this country . They are tired of political solutions to moral problem . You | the Alexandria Ocasio Cortez 's in this country . They are tired of political solutions to moral problem . | You |
know , Danny , it 's interesting . He brought up the the the the perhaps the box that Democrats | know , Danny , it 's interesting . He brought up the the the the perhaps the box that Democrats |
have painted themselves in the morality , then you have the A word when it comes to the right , | have painted themselves in the morality , then you have the A word when it comes to the right , |
which is amnesty which is that any little protection for anybody that 's not here legally is somehow Amnesty and | which is amnesty which is that any little protection for anybody that 's not here legally is somehow Amnesty and |
the president tweeted this this morning no Amnesty is not part of my offer . It is a 3 -year | the president tweeted this this morning no Amnesty is not part of my offer . | It is a 3 -year |
extension of DACA amnesty will be used only on a much bigger deal whether on immigration or something else . | extension of DACA amnesty will be used only on a much bigger deal whether on immigration or something else . |
Likewise there will be no big push to remove the 11 million plus people who are here illegally , but | Likewise there will be no big push to remove the 11 million plus people who are here illegally , but |
be careful Nancy the amnesty word . We know that that suddenly can splinter the right . So there 's | be careful Nancy the amnesty word . We know that that suddenly can splinter the right . | So there 's |
a lot of history behind these immigration problems . It 's not just something that came up between Donald Trump | a lot of history behind these immigration problems . It 's not just something that came up between Donald Trump |
and Nancy Pelosi . This goes back to 1986 in the original deal that was struck with the Reagan administration | and Nancy Pelosi . This goes back to 1986 in the original deal that was struck with the Reagan administration |
, which most people don 't even remember , and that was the amnesty question you know I think what | , which most people don 't even remember , and that was the amnesty question you know I think what |
we 've seen is that while Donald Trump had painted himself into a corner . The reality is we may | we 've seen is that while Donald Trump had painted himself into a corner . The reality is we may |
not like it , we may not agree with him , but he has moved and it is a mistake | not like it , we may not agree with him , but he has moved and it is a mistake |
on the part of the speaker to come out of the box and not accept the idea that we liked | on the part of the speaker to come out of the box and not accept the idea that we liked |
the idea of a 3 -year extension . Sure . We want to do better . We like we we | the idea of a 3 -year extension . Sure . We want to do better . We like we we |
could accept a 700 mile or so border fence , the Democrats every sitting Democrat in the Senate voted for | could accept a 700 mile or so border fence , the Democrats every sitting Democrat in the Senate voted for |
just such a thing . A mere 5 years ago the problem that you have is when you start suggesting | just such a thing . A mere 5 years ago the problem that you have is when you start suggesting |
that anyone who wants a wall is or or you know , not many . But I don 't want | that anyone who wants a wall is or or you know , not many . But I don 't want |
to be unfair to you but that many who want this are actually racists it causes a real hardening , | to be unfair to you but that many who want this are actually racists it causes a real hardening , |
on the other side , there are plenty of people , including 35 plus Democratic senators who wanted a wall | on the other side , there are plenty of people , including 35 plus Democratic senators who wanted a wall |
signed up to a wall and who I don 't think are racist . Bottom line is , if you | signed up to a wall and who I don 't think are racist . | Bottom line is , if you |
take the emotion out of this debate it solved tomorrow . Yeah right . Yeah right . Yeah , no | take the emotion out of this debate | it solved tomorrow . Yeah right . | Yeah right . Yeah , no |
, exactly right . And then I think just point is exactly right , which is what used to be | , exactly right . And then I think just point is exactly right , which is what used to be |
a relatively pragmatic discussion about a little of this a little of that right . In 2006 Republicans , along | a relatively pragmatic discussion about a little of this a little of that right . In 2006 Republicans , along |
with many democrats voted for the Secure Fence Act they put in 650mi worth of fencing today it has become | with many democrats voted for the Secure Fence Act they put in 650mi worth of fencing today it has become |
a moral issue on both sides in different ways . Very hard to me in the middle . I want | a moral issue on both sides in different ways . Very hard to me in the middle . | I want |
to see clear there 's some experts who do believe that there are certain kinds of barriers in certain parts | to see clear there 's some experts who do believe that there are certain kinds of barriers in certain parts |
of the border that make perfect sense we interviewed a Border Patrol expert on our program . Who said that | of the border that make perfect sense we interviewed a Border Patrol expert on our program . Who said that |
especially in urban areas where there are plenty of places for smugglers to kind of duck and dodge behind buildings | especially in urban areas where there are plenty of places for smugglers to kind of duck and dodge behind buildings |
are down alleys physical barriers can make a real difference in terms of securing the borders of saying it 's | are down alleys physical barriers can make a real difference in terms of securing the borders of saying it 's |
inherently in morality may be true in some people 's hearts but there are pragmatic ways in which certain kinds | inherently in morality may be true in some people 's hearts but there are pragmatic ways in which certain kinds |
of barriers along certain parts of the border have helped . that And there 's a deal to be And | of barriers along certain parts of the border have helped . | that | And there 's a deal to be | And |
there 's a deal to be had . It 's not going to be had , according to the Democrats | there 's a deal to be had . It 's not going to be had , according to the Democrats |
. When the government is closed because just this week , you saw other groups other conservative base groups pro | . When the government is closed because just this week , you saw other groups other conservative base groups pro |
-life groups say let 's have a shutdown over Planned Parenthood funding , and so this really is for Democrats | -life groups say let 's have a shutdown over Planned Parenthood funding , and so this really is for Democrats |
about the principle . If , if this continues to go on which party is more vulnerable to seeing more | about the principle . | If , if this continues to go on which party is more vulnerable to seeing more |
splintering off here , right . I mean , I feel like you 've got you 've got those Trump | splintering off here , right . I mean , I feel like you 've got you 've got those Trump |
House Democrats you 've got those Senate Republicans in blue states . It seems like they 're both wobbly here | House Democrats you 've got those Senate Republicans in blue states . It seems like they 're both wobbly here |
. I think right now . Nancy Pelosi is is is at more risk because she 's facing exactly what | . | I think right now . Nancy Pelosi is is is at more risk because she 's facing exactly what |
2 Republican speakers faced up to you , which is her own version of the Freedom Caucus our own version | 2 Republican speakers faced up to you , which is her own version of the Freedom Caucus our own version |
of the Tea Party . We 're going to turn on her like vipers . I think Mitch McConnell 's | of the Tea Party . We 're going to turn on her like vipers . | I think Mitch McConnell 's |
move here with getting Trump to make this proposal was also meant to move this to the Senate . So | move here with getting Trump to make this proposal was also meant to move this to the Senate . So |
I would look to those Senate Democrats those moderate Democrats , which is why I reached out to Joe mansion | I would look to those Senate Democrats those moderate Democrats , which is why I reached out to Joe mansion |
last night and he gave a very kind of nebulous statement but but it did say let 's open the | last night and he gave a very kind of nebulous statement but but it did say let 's open the |
government , which brings me back to the same point I keep making making it . And as you heard | government , which brings me back to the same point I keep making | making it . And as you heard |
Mark Warner there maybe we could pay them out , you can tell there 's some movement . All right | Mark Warner there maybe we could pay them out , you can tell there 's some movement . All right |
. Hey NBC News fans thanks for checking out our YouTube channel subscribe by clicking on that button down here | . Hey NBC News fans thanks for checking out our YouTube channel subscribe by clicking on that button down here |
and then click and any of the videos over here to watch the latest interviews show highlights and digital exclusives | and then click and any of the videos over here to watch the latest interviews show highlights and digital exclusives |
thanks for watching . | thanks for watching . | |
This just in . Rudy Giuliani just talked to the New Yorker and the president 's personal attorney could not | This just in . Rudy Giuliani just talked to the New Yorker and the president 's personal attorney could not |
have been more frank about why he worked to push out and Maria Ivanovic from her position as US ambassador | have been more frank about why he worked to push out and Maria Ivanovic from her position as US ambassador |
to Ukraine Jovanovic is a respected career diplomat who served ambassadorships under 3 presidents remember she testified in the impeachment | to Ukraine Jovanovic is a respected career diplomat who served ambassadorships under 3 presidents remember she testified in the impeachment |
inquiry that she was forced out in May . So let 's go straight to CNN Crime and Justice reporter | inquiry that she was forced out in May . So let 's go straight to CNN Crime and Justice reporter |
Shimon broken Pez Shimon so what exactly to Giuliani say . Yeah . Forced out Brooke , you know , | Shimon broken Pez Shimon so what exactly to Giuliani say . | Yeah . Forced out Brooke , you know , |
just to remind folks . She was forced out based on what she believed was a lot of false narratives | just to remind folks . She was forced out based on what she believed was a lot of false narratives |
false information that was put out there by people in the Ukraine by Rudy Giuliani made its way to the | false information that was put out there by people in the Ukraine by Rudy Giuliani made its way to the |
president and then ultimately she was recalled and removed and this is really a stunning admission : you know , | president and then ultimately she was recalled and removed and this is really a stunning admission : you know , |
I think , in reading this from Rudy Giuliani when he was interviewed by The New Yorker and what he | I think , in reading this from Rudy Giuliani when he was interviewed by The New Yorker and what he |
basically said that he admits : of the entire thing saying that I believe that I needed Jovanovic . This | basically said that he admits : of the entire thing saying that I believe that I needed Jovanovic . This |
is the Ukrainian ambassador out of the way he said she was going to make the investigation difficult for everybody | is the Ukrainian ambassador out of the way he said she was going to make the investigation difficult for everybody |
. And of course he 's referring here to the investigation into the Bidens this is exactly what the Southern | . And of course he 's referring here to the investigation into the Bidens this is exactly what the Southern |
District of New York , the US attorney here is investigating why did they remover the removal of her and | District of New York , the US attorney here is investigating why did they remover the removal of her and |
the facts surrounding that are mentioned in the indictment of the associates of Rudy Giuliani 's associates . There were | the facts surrounding that are mentioned in the indictment of the associates of Rudy Giuliani 's associates . There were |
just indicted in the last few months of that investigation very much ongoing and I think anyone you ask who | just indicted in the last few months of that investigation very much ongoing and I think anyone you ask who |
lawyers that I 've read this quote to they 're just floored by it . It is an admission in | lawyers that I 've read this quote to they 're just floored by it . It is an admission in |
some ways and and it 's also he is saying this in the middle of this investigation , something that | some ways and and it 's also he is saying this in the middle of this investigation , something that |
the Southern District of New York and the FBI is looking into it really is shocking , but not probably | the Southern District of New York and the FBI is looking into it really is shocking , but not probably |
surprising because it 's Rudy Giuliani but for his lawyer . And you know , certainly it 's going to | surprising because it 's Rudy Giuliani but for his lawyer . And you know , certainly it 's going to |
make his job a lot March much much harder , added to the bucket of a current investigation . President | make his job a lot March much much harder | , | added to the bucket of a current investigation . | President |
Trump is strongly defending Rudy Giuliani tonight as his personal lawyer stirs up yet more controversy in connection with the | Trump is strongly defending Rudy Giuliani tonight as his personal lawyer stirs up yet more controversy in connection with the |
Ukraine scandal . Let 's bring in our analysts to discuss and Susan Hennessey , you 've got a new | Ukraine scandal . Let 's bring in our analysts to discuss and Susan Hennessey , you 've got a new |
book coming out next month . Entitled and making of the presidency . Donald Trump 's war on the world | book coming out next month . Entitled and making of the presidency . Donald Trump 's war on the world |
's most powerful office just got it , looking forward to reading it . I 'm sure there 's a | 's most powerful office just got it , looking forward to reading it . I 'm sure there 's a |
lot of useful information in there but let 's talk about Giuliani are right now . His effort to oust | lot of useful information in there but let 's talk about Giuliani are right now . His effort to oust |
the former US ambassador to Ukraine Marie Ivanovich , he says in the New Yorker . I believe that I | the former US ambassador to Ukraine Marie Ivanovich , he says in the New Yorker . I believe that I |
needed you out of the way she was going to make the investigations difficult for everybody . What does that | needed you out of the way she was going to make the investigations difficult for everybody . What does that |
tell you . I think it 's a really significant admission , even though it 's something that I think | tell you . | I think it 's a really significant admission , even though it 's something that I think |
a lot of people already suspected was the reality . This is Giuliani , acknowledging that the smear campaign against | a lot of people already suspected was the reality . This is Giuliani , acknowledging that the smear campaign against |
Maria Ivanovic was indeed tied to this essentially corrupt pursuit of wanting political investigations . So it 's a really | Maria Ivanovic was indeed tied to this essentially corrupt pursuit of wanting political investigations . So it 's a really |
significant that he said they needed her they needed to get her out of the way in order to get | significant that he said they needed her they needed to get her out of the way in order to get |
these investigations if this if this administration actually cared about corruption about rooting out corruption in Ukraine Marie amount of | these investigations if this if this administration actually cared about corruption about rooting out corruption in Ukraine Marie amount of |
it to someone that they would want on their team . This is a person who has a very strong | it to someone that they would want on their team . This is a person who has a very strong |
reputation among both Democrats and Republicans for being a crusader against corruption . So the fact that Giuliani identified that | reputation among both Democrats and Republicans for being a crusader against corruption . So the fact that Giuliani identified that |
he needed to get her out of the way , is a pretty strong indication , but what he was | he needed to get her out of the way , is a pretty strong indication , but what he was |
looking to do was not root out corruption but actually engage in corrupt acts himself . It 's also an | looking to do was not root out corruption but actually engage in corrupt acts himself . It 's also an |